Welcome back to finding the edge podcast.
I'm Gary boy. Mmm, in today's episode in true,
finding the edge fashion. We had a very emergent
discussion with Caleb Abney where we did a live commentary
on the Brewers Braves and I'll DS game which happened to be the
game that the Braves ended up clinching.
It's starting to feel like a trend every time I have Caleb on
and I'm about to release his episode that he is getting
featured in. You know, some other podcast or
there's an announcement so /. The trend it seems like this
week as I'm about to release this episode with Caleb, he was
just named head coach for Lancaster Bible College out in
Pennsylvania. So big congrats to Caleb Abney.
If you guys want to see calebs offensive Style on full display,
I highly recommend you guys follow Lancaster, Bible College
and keep up with all the Eight things that he's going to be
doing there and so big, congrats to Caleb.
Caleb and I today had a great conversation watching the game
and today's podcast felt a lot more like a conversation than an
interview. So hopefully guys build that
it's much more, much more natural conversation.
Super excited to share this with you guys.
What I ended up doing is flipping what I thought would be
most interesting for you guys are that conversation because
there's there's a lot of dead space and some technical issues
going on there so we clipped all that out.
So that hopefully it's it stays really engaging for you guys.
Also to we actually ended up doing a another livestream, me
and Robert did of a World Series game.
So if you guys want to check that out, it's definitely a lot
longer than this one. Part of the reason that this one
ended up being so short, was that my camera ended up dying
part way through it. So it will abruptly end.
So just before Warren That if it doesn't have like a natural exit
point but regardless if you're not following Caleb already make
sure to follow him on Twitter and then make sure you're
following Lancaster Bible College.
But yeah so make sure if you want to see the live stream that
Robert and I did of the World Series game, make sure to check
out our YouTube channel. We also have a few other
previous episodes up there. We've started to do more video
podcasts, obviously the audio will always be available.
But if you want to see some visual parts and see our faces
and all that good stuff with the World Series live stream, we
actually did pull up some video and talk some base running.
So if you want to check that out, head over there.
Also on our YouTube channel, I'll put up clips of our
conversation. And so you can always refer to
an eclipse that I put out on social media on our YouTube
channel at all be there. So make sure to head over there,
it subscribe, like, share all that, sort of good stuff.
Without further Ado, our commentary on the Brewers Braves
in all DS game. Go for it too late John Smoltz
sure. I mean I mean in some ways
though I there's some things that he says where I'm not
completely into it but I understand what you mean there
are, there are there are yes there are some things where I'm
like, yeah, cool rock on. I can get behind that.
There are some things he says that it's like, dude, you are
not good for this game like like get with it just a little bit.
Stop being such an angry old man, a get off my lawn type of
guy old man, screams at the clouds, it's just atrocious.
He accent heat. You literally said this?
It was yesterday, I think. Yeah.
I think it was the Red Sox Rays game.
Yeah. Because it was j.d.
Martinez, a pitch that was in off the plate inside.
It was not a strike was inside, it was very close to being a
strike, but it was inside. He slices it to right field for
a week, like short fly out and John Smoltz.
I mean, you know, he's mr. Go the other way.
Hit Oppo, everything. Just like every other standard
traditional old school baseball guy, like, hmm.
He literally shouldn't even be trying to get a hit, unless it's
but the opposite field and Like these words actually came out of
his mouth, it's actually easier. Like that's actually the pitch
that you want to try to go the other way on.
It's easier to do it on that pitch.
I'm like what? Excuse me.
It's easier to hit the ball to the opposite field on a pitch
that's inside off the plate that that that's not even consistent
with like baseball conventional wisdom.
No, I don't know what he was trying to get out there.
He just really wanted to make his point and be right about
opposite field hitting But driving not dude, how about the
Giants man? Yep.
That ball that Gavin. Lux hid to end.
The game was 107 miles an hour. And it did not go out of the
ballpark, the wind I guess was crazy Dodger Stadium last night
that that was to end the game and it would have tied it if it
had gone out. Oh, dude, the, that's the thing
that I really liked watching the Giants game and I didn't see
that one. But the, I think it was the
first game I was watching back to it and they had the wind like
how the wind they had a graphic showing.
How the wind was moving in the ballpark and I'm like, kids,
like this is why I love the ecological approach and it's not
like it's you know, nobody thought about it.
You know, without the ecological approach but it just it
highlights one of the factors that the players are going to
have to deal with. Yeah just to me screams like you
got to be more adaptable dextrous because Well, in last
night's game that ball would have gone out under normal
circumstances. But do you have another way to
be able to hit to still score runs?
I mean I get it that you know the Giants have a good good
pitching staff too. So I'm not denigrating that but
at the same point for the coaches that always harp on you
know just hit it over the hit over the fielders, you know,
like yeah I get it and it's true until you have the wind that you
have to deal with. Yeah.
It's like blowing straight into. Yeah, so I think maybe in those
moments like just lowering lowering your site slightly,
maybe like, instead of having such high possible, launch
angles that you're going for your hitting, maybe lower line
drive, it just barely get over the infielders.
So that, you know, and maybe that's your, like, that's your,
that's your objective in that game because you don't want to
get up in the wind too much where It's not able to carry as
much. But what's also interesting is
in that game Evan Longoria, hit a hit a bot.
Like the only run that was scored was his so somehow he was
able to, but it's also where he hid it on the field.
I think he pulled that one. Whereas, where did where did it
actually wasn't? It was, it was a similar area,
the field. It was a little more support
Scofield, but Gavin, Gavin lux's was to, it was like to left
center field. And he's a left-handed hitter so
he liked it was Oppo and Eva. Longoria's was kind of
straightaway left field so they were similar areas of the field
but you know maybe in that moment that Evan Evan Longoria
hit his maybe the wind wasn't gusting quite as much and or
maybe like there was like a big Gus that came up right?
When Lux hid, his Balto left left center field.
So, You know, just the Dynamics of how that works and the timing
of when you can hit balls, is interesting.
I mean, that I don't feel like anybody should get that into the
weeds of it, quite honestly. Yeah, when you're playing, but
at some level, if you know, the conditions that you're in from,
and they're fairly consistent, or they're consistent for that
inning, you should, I think we should be working with hitters
to make them adjustable and to your point.
I don't think it's a, you know, launch angle.
Hard enough as it is but just shifting your intention to, you
know, maybe hitting a line drive and trying to get more line
drives over the infield, you know, or trying to work balls
into the Gap. A little bit more on a lower
angle which, which that's that's actually from like a coaching
standpoint and a header development standpoint.
That's where I start. Anyway, especially with college
hitters that's where I start. And there are some guys that,
you know, I may be okay with them.
You know, going a little bit higher and, you know, I'm fine
with giving a little more freedom on that, but for the
most part, especially College, editors just hit the ball hard
into the Outfield. That's it.
Let's let's start there. There are no conditions, there
are zero environmental conditions where that is not
ever going to not be a good result.
Bright. Let's start with the thing.
That's always going to be a good result.
And let's work from there. If you end up getting underneath
the ball a little bit more and And the conditions warrant.
It then okay, you've had a ball over and outfielders had cool.
If you end up getting on top of a ball, a little bit more but
you still hit it hard. You still may have a decent
chance. If you hit it hard enough to
where it's like a one hopper through the infield as long as
it's not right at an infielder. So start start with line drives
into the Outfield and then let's let's work from there and then
we'll make adjustments and be adaptable based on the
conditions from there. Mmm-hmm and also based on the
type of hitter that you are and what your exit exit, they will
potentially as currently at that time, as you're trying to build
it, I mean, because the only counter example, I can think of,
and it's not really that good of one is, I think my senior year,
we're playing st. Thomas, and there's just massive
wind and I swear this kid probably hit a line drive at
like 110 and it just went, the wind literally knocked it down.
So that went straight to the center fielder And that ball was
absolutely crushed and wind just killed it.
Yeah, so, you know, it's it's one of those things where it's
you can try being aware of that, right?
But to like, what are we going to just take ground balls?
They're like I mean, it's one of those unfortunate things where
it's like, you did everything right?
And it just wasn't good enough. So yeah, so such as such as life
in the game of baseball. All yeah.
That's the way it goes. What do you got on the open
Jersey? the no, the no button of the top
two just the like Chest popping out.
I don't mean I mean, do I like it?
No, not really but I don't there are certain things where I just
don't care. Yeah.
You know, like, it's not, it's not something that to me is that
interesting. Like, if it makes you feel more
swaggy and you and you play better, I don't care, but you
got to play better though. Yes, you're gonna do that, you
better you better back that up. How is Yelich done this year?
Not good. That's kind of what I heard.
I was actually thinking about that.
The last couple days when they've talked about how he's
not had a very good season and has struggled and watching him
in this series, you can definitely see that to like he
doesn't look comfortable. He is missing pitches that he
has hit in the past whether it be just swinging.
Miss foul ball or hitting week. We ground balls or week contact.
Right on cue. We just got beat by a pitch down
the middle. It's it's it is interesting.
It highlights to me the you know, kind of the nature of The
nature of development, specifically, on the hitting
side, man, he was very late. Holy Toledo.
This is wild. Yes, this is why though.
I love the side angle, you know, because I thought maybe you know
what he was just under it. No, no.
It's so obvious. He was.
Yeah. To me, that's the only benefit
to the side angle as you can see, contact Point.
Yeah. And you can see like how late
somebody is but To me it highlights how it's something
and hitting. We just kind of we just kind of
pushed to the side and say well hitting is really hard.
You know that's like a stereotypical like a very
typical conventional thing that we say which it is.
Yes. But like for a guy to go from as
heralded as he was like God's gift to hitting.
And he's got everything figured out and because he made this
change to his swing or he made this adjustment he did this and
now he's arrived. And then now like he's and then
this year, he's been very average like, or a little below.
And it just to me shows like No matter what changes to your
swing or changes to, you know to what you think from a hitting
standpoint that you've liked arrived adaptability is always
going to be something that if you don't prioritize that on a
year-to-year basis like consistently and being being in
the moment with the pitch in that exact moment and adapting
to that pitch. And that's like that that that
should Trump everything that should Trump whatever.
Swing change is whatever. Oh, he's doing this different
this year than he's done in the past.
Like if adaptability isn't your goal in the moment with the
pitch in that exact s Ms. Then you're going to have these ups
and downs where you're like constantly going like this
because you're just relying on that neck.
That next swing change or that next approach.
Change that like that, it's it limits development because we
just do these like wild Back and forth, shifts in our
perspectives on what we think works.
And most of the time, it's a movement aesthetic.
That doesn't actually translate the success, but we attribute it
to it. And, I mean, I, I just wonder if
we were to commit to adaptability and if that were
the most important thing, if we could find some more consistency
instead of these wild changes in levels of success for these
Stars, mmm, No, I agree. Did.
I mean for me it is about that moment, being fully present
being fully connected to to the information in the environment.
You know, IE the picture in the ball.
As a white play occurs right there.
Oh wow. Um I mean that even right there
requires you to be in the moment, you know.
And actually so okay this is a I don't know if this will make the
podcast or not but so You know, not to touch on any of the
points that you just expanded upon, but let's say, somebody is
like way too in their head, when they're hitting or playing or
let's say, trying to feel the ball, just have them have a
conversation with you while there while they're doing it.
Just shut their brain down. Yeah, for like, what they're
doing. I was I was doing some.
I was working with somebody for like with martial arts and we're
trying to take more of an ecological approach.
And we're talking about how, you know, how we don't want, what
we're doing to be wrote, but you still need to have a feel for
the techniques. And so in it, he was just
talking about how, you know, the his training partner that he was
working with was just always, it was just saying how he can't do
something or whatever. So they start doing their their
movement generator, and he just starts talking to them and
they're just having a conversation and all of a sudden
he's doing the stuff that he said he couldn't do.
Yep. And he didn't realize it.
Because he was nice and the limitations on himself and his
mind in the moment, rather than allowing his his unexplored,
athletic ability to just come out naturally and coaches, don't
like that. This is don't like that because
of coaches egomaniacs, and I know that that's an extreme
thing to say. But it's true, like coaches
can't handle when something happens without them being the
ones that did it. And it's like, just let go of
that. Like just let go, it's okay.
Okay, a fleet can do things without you specifically
prescribing it. I promise you, especially the
higher levels. You go to.
They have capabilities that you that you might be getting in the
way of because you want to make sure that you have things go the
way that you want it to. Because it makes you look good.
And yeah, that's that like, that is such a constraint and then an
inhibitor to athletic development in my opinion.
So what would you say on that like slow-mo from the side?
Like I like looking at that and being like well he was just a
little early. Yeah, he was early and he likes
swung over it. Like he wasn't even like he
wasn't even on the same plane as that pitch psyche.
Like it was like this. Yeah I mean granted it's not a
good pitch to swing at we're Rod singer by any means as not a
good pitch to swing at but if he were to hit it like if you would
What adjustment would he have to make in order for him to
actually be able to hit it? Well, he was early and he wasn't
on there. Really wasn't on that.
He wasn't on the best plane to be able to actually run into
that pitch, even if he had an event early into.
Like I like to think about like okay what other ways could he
have? Bought himself more time to
allow the pitch to get a little bit further in and or because
that pitch was so low to the ground.
Could he have actually gone out and moved?
You know, allowed his weight to shift even more?
Forward and take a center. Yeah to go out and get it or
could he have had more side Bend and more forward lean with the
Torso and more reach so that he can extend out?
Because then that mole is actually easier to hit when it's
actually further out in front of the plate there.
So, I mean, to me, once you can identify those things of like,
okay, what could they have done differently?
Then when you feed them, other pitches.
Are you talking? You do a debrief with them, and
you show them video like that, then they can go experiment.
Or and try those things out and see what works for them and what
doesn't so? I mean well for me that's how I
would you utilize like that side angle, slow motion that speak to
you know what I think is? And I know I'm a broken record
on this that speaks to the issue with prescriptive technical
model teaching on the swing. When you do that when you are
when you are teaching a specific swing.
This is this is the correct way. And if this is in podcast audio
form, I am holding up air quotes right now.
When I say that if this is the correct way, air quotes the
swing. That is that is by definition
restrictive and confining and it is it is sending the message to
the athlete to The Hitter that this is the way that you were
supposed to do this. Regardless of Is placed in front
of you, regardless of what the pitch is asking you to do or
what the previous context was, and it by definition limits.
Exactly. The things that you were
mentioning of possibly being able to go out and get it more
or ride your weight out further, maybe even out on your front
foot which is a No-No in terms of, you know, the way that we
teach hitting nowadays or just even old-school, I mean, for me,
that's old school. Cool.
Because that's what I was learning when I was coming up.
Yeah you know coaches were so against that but like you are
taking away those potential movement Solutions movement
Solutions or to use a ecological Dynamics phrase, action
capabilities. You are you are limiting that
potential by saying this is the way that you swing.
Well what if you need something else that is outside of these
rules that you're placing on me that I am supposed to stick
within And to me, that's why you see so many, so many hitters
that can only hit pitches in the middle of the plate.
Hmm. Because they never explore to
try to expand that dexterity that you mentioned earlier to be
able to actually get to those different pitches because
they're so worried about executing this specific movement
pattern. I even hate the word pattern.
It's, I agree with this specific movement.
Turn that limits you from being able to get two more pitches
other than just down the middle. So then what does that lead to
then then it leads to and it comes out of it's a circular
causation in my opinion this whole like oh so when get
pitches that you can hit down the middle and don't like wait,
like wait for her pictures to make a quote-unquote mistake.
And I'm doing air quotes again or take take 30.
Yeah, like just oh, you know, you just have to wait for the
picture to make them Mistake. Wait for the pitcher to make a
mistake like, like, which is why.
I've said this multiple times on social media like, why don't we
try to create mistakes with how we train, try to create the
ability to make pitchers pitches or no longer pitchers pitchers?
Because we are exploring all these different action
capabilities to be able to, then Deploy on these different
pitches. Then maybe we don't have to
limit ourselves to just hitting pitches down the middle that
ball was smoked Ground rule. Double I was 102.
Yeah, that was a perfect example right there.
That was like middle and thigh-high like and yeah, he
smoked it on that pitch and he probably thinks it's because of
his swing, but it was because it's in the perfect place that
he trains for on a regular basis.
And he's more attuned to that pitch and he was just fully in
the moment. Yeah.
Like to and fully fully attuned adaptable and dextrous there.
And this is the other thing to do with when it comes to when
we're talking about. Like attuned adaptable adaptable
dextrous from an ecological Dynamics approach.
You're not, you're not like always the same person from
moment to moment. You're changing like your
psychological State changes from moment to moment your action,
kill capabilities, change from moment to moment.
And so we're hoping though that through all the different
training that training environment and past experience
playing the game that you have, that you will better be able to
It into those states that allow you to succeed.
And and so for me, that's that's kind of why I say, like, you
know, he was attuned adaptable and dexterous in that moment.
But that is based on the experiential level that you have
with those moments, right? So way, yes.
I mean because you well I mean it's going to coincide with how
much with how often you found yourself.
Yes, I know where you're going with it.
Or where I'm going to take where you were going with it.
Is it what it will? Then show is like if you're able
to do it more consistently than you're going to have more
consistent results but Just in the way that you can take, one
person who doesn't have a ton of track record, of history of
being a performing at a high level, and you stick them in and
it like, and, you know, high-level moment and then they
actually perform that's not based upon their past
experience. That's based on the fact that
everything in that situation. Whether it's something that a
coach said, maybe it's, you know, something else to that
they were listening to throughout the day.
They watched inspirational video.
Somebody said a good word to them, whatever.
And then they No, it combines with that moment when they go up
to the plate and they, you know, they hit a pitch that, you know,
they have no business or, you know, get a hit a game-winning
hit off of pitcher. They have no business doing that
against that to me, just shows that for that moment, they were
in such a state that they were able to be attuned.
Adaptable dextrous that you're talking about like the idea of
like a flow State more so than, oh, I've experienced hitting
that pitch in practice. So it's easier for me to do it
in competition. Well, I mean it's both right.
Like so what I'm saying is that because like what I like about
an ecological approach is that we talk about complexity like
there everything is a multifactorial event, right?
So it's not taking away from what you're saying at all.
It's just saying that. The, when we assess like, why
something happens, it's not always because of their past
experience, right? It, that is a Opponent of it,
but it doesn't. It's not necessarily a
prerequisite for it. That's all I'm saying.
Yeah, that makes sense. Because there's all kinds of
things that go into why we have the capability to do the things
that we do from a physicality standpoint, whether it's
athletic or or not. yeah, I mean it's back to the the, your
previous podcast, you know, maybe he ate Cheerios this
morning or whatever, you know, like, It it all plays in and it
and it's more on the perceptions of the of the athlete and how
they perceive it. But but I mean that's, that's,
that doesn't mean that you can do everything, you do have to
understand, like, how the system adapts, you know, perceptually
and, and to your point that you're making earlier, we want
them to be able to do that more often and more frequently, not
just one off one time, like, you know, we're watching the movie
Miracle and we just have to Beat the Russians one time.
Yeah, I know. So that's why these things
matter and actually understanding these principles
and trying to implement them more frequently and more often.
It's so that the athletes can perform at a high level more
frequently and more often, Didn't look like it felt good.
Did you see that? Yeah.
Did he scratch up? His nose?
Looks like it. I don't know if that's dirt or
like blood. Yeah, that was right down the
middle. oh, you're a go infield in We
could potentially have. What is the score of?
White Sox, Astros game. 621 top of the eighth, so barring
something crazy the Astros are going to Complete that series.
The Braves win this game and then the Giants when tonight.
Then we could have every series would be done today.
Yeah, that's why. I was like we got to do this
this stream today not tomorrow because there might not be
anything to watch tomorrow, may not be anything until Friday
because that's when I think that's when I think that's the
schedule. That's a big out right there.
It was couldn't even get it in played.
I mean this is where like, you know, everybody talks about
like, oh, just hit the ball hard and far.
Mmm, you don't always necessarily need to do that.
Like, I'd take Louisa rise in that situation.
Who can just find a hole like that works.
There it does but you're taking a greater risk from From a
probability standpoint because you know there's there's more
infielders on the infield where a less less of a reaction time.
Obviously with them moved in there's less of a reaction time.
I mean there's that but I mean that works too.
That's is fair. No.
But like a ball look. All you have to do though is
like by a contact hitter. Like what I'm meaning is not
necessarily just a ground ball through the infield.
I'm I'm meaning With a, with the ability to handle the bat.
And even because right? Yeah.
Oh, Rhys has the ability to flip it over the infield.
Yeah, I mean, that's that's what you need in that scenario.
Is somebody who has good bat control contact ability.
Who can, you know, basically spray the ball at different
angles. I mean, a ball in the air.
There is going to score somebody to.
I mean that's that's where I. Yeah, to me when I got a guy on
third, like, yeah, we are Friday, hit it over over.
The infielders and you may get a hit out of it, you may hit a
double out of it at the very least.
You got a decent chance. I mean as long as you don't hit
it like Sally of getting a Sac fly out of it like worst case
scenario so it's try to hit a hard end of The Outfield
somewhere which you know again like we mentioned earlier that.
I mean that's to me that's pretty much always the goal like
no matter the situation and I feel like if you start there,
you give yourself a really really good chance in pretty
much any scenario of Of coming through and whatever situation
that you're trying to come through it.
And absolutely, I mean, because for me the whole, my whole Focus
From The Hitting side is how do we score runs?
You know, it's great to, you know, try to go for 22 runs
right there. But you know, what one is,
what's that old saying? Like one in the one in the hand
is better than two in the bush. Like, I mean, I'd rather have a
run there then you know, Onto just a wealth of like, I'm not
going to be opposed. If you hit it over the fence,
you know, by any means. But once you got two strikes on
you, like let's let's go for a where the higher probability is
and I am filled still in. I think that's where the
distinction is the count. Yes, or two strikes, try to
break and crush it and you get a pitch, you feel like you can
hammer it if you miss it, it's still probably going to be a Sac
fly, right? When you get the two strikes
like still, try to hit it hard into the Outfield, but But like
make your focus like I just got to find a way to hit this, put
the barrel just a little bit below the middle of the ball and
try to do that as hard as I can with the constraint of trying to
make sure that I'm able to do that first and foremost.
And who knows? You still may hit a home run
like with that kind of approach like he's no, make it a double.
I'm good at the very least like you are trying to get it into
the Outfield and like maybe Chance at least drive that run
in, you know, even if you're not driving are so, I mean, because
that right there would have gotten the run in the last
at-bat. Absolutely.
And now no runs in that inning and we'll see how many runs, you
know, ultimately matter in this, in this game, I can't remember
what was it the Rays game yesterday?
Boston, it came down to one run in a way.
Yep. So but I actually, I like this
so far of using the game as just a way to To talk.
Yep, and about everything up conversation about things and It
kind of reminds you of stuff, it's like examples of things and
like the real game situations which, you know, imagine this is
where matters like yes in the game that's where it matters.
We forget that. So often.
Mmm, so often, I mean to like those arms slots, just hold that
balls moving. I I find that to be hard
obviously, you know, I don't coach at I often don't coach at
a level where guys are this good, but at the same point,
Like how do you recreate that when you know you only have so
many? So many arms you know like
that's what I've been thinking about is how do I recreate these
different pitches? Yeah those different looks well,
which is like I mean that's that's another limitation of
like traditional BP, right off of off of a coach. which is why
I like, the, and I know we've talked about this before the
Flaws from the perspective of picking up information off of
the picture that exists in using pitching machines that, you
know, that would be your like, from conversations.
We've had previously. That would be your biggest
complaint of them. And, you know, I know from an
ecological perspective that is, you know, a negative part of
using a pitching machine, is it real, like the fact that you in
a bad? In practice setting, you face
such a different type of pitch from a movement and velocity
standpoint. The fact that you actually get
to pick up the information that really isn't like that
consistent with the information that you're getting from a
picture to your point throwing at those on angles with that
speed. And their body is moving very
differently than how traditional BP thrower.
Like a coach is going to move there in a different spot,
they're closer to you. So the negatives that you It
from using a pitching machine from not getting those things.
Is it really that is that adverse compared to you know?
Okay using a machine or most of information?
I'm not going to get that close of information from BP pitcher
anyway, so I might as well get the pitch right like the actual
ball flight I might as well at least get that piece of it
similar since, you know I guess the point I'm trying to make is
A coach throwing batting practice, does not really look
that much like a pitcher throwing to you.
It doesn't some ways. It depends how you do it.
Like meaning does your does the coach actually try to pitch?
You know I use a pitching motion or is he just throwing it over
the plate? I mean, Granite like I liked you
know going down and hanging out with Nick and he's throwing
batting practice. Now he didn't I don't remember
that if he had a full leg kick and everything but I mean the
mere fact that he was mixing. Pitches that was awesome.
When was that maybe end of August or something?
I was always there before Fall Ball Z.
What it said you went to Georgia Tech.
Yeah, what were you there for? I was trying to get flight scope
to work. I still I need to email flight
scope so that I can do something to get my flight scope working.
Why were you at Lana though? Because I wanted to calibrate it
against track man. The you went down there
specifically for that and like you set that up with Nick and
everything. Yep.
And he was like was it like individuals for them?
And he was throwing the guys know, we me and him were just
talking and we went into the cage and started goofing around,
okay, it's how he is throwing to me and this this is actually
like so we did something that I really liked which is to your
point earlier. Is he just like I wanted to I
think you should if your guys can handle it you should just
start off with this of do. Hit everything DP and it's
mixed. So all I was doing was mixing
and I had no idea which pitch was coming and my whole goal was
just to try to be as connected as possible or in the morning as
possible ball. Yep.
To him in the ball and just just Barrel.
It wasn't. My I was just trying to warm up
and warm up by like so you did you see Rafe Kelly, did I share
a Kelly's work with you at all? Maybe he spoke at the sport
movement skill conference this year but anyways I went to his
Retreat this past weekend and his whole thing was on parkour.
Martial arts, natural movement, all that sort of stuff.
And so some of the some of the activities we did were just to,
like, just warm up the body to move and to try to be more
perceptually in tune with your environment.
And so Like something as simple as like.
Okay we're going to move. I'm going to, I'm going to fix
my eyes on a specific Target and I'm not going to take my eyes
off of that Target and I'm just going to move in as many
different ways and explore and so like I just kind of to me
it's like taking that concept except now we're just actually
hitting and this is a warm-up I'm not trying to move fast.
I'm not trying to like crush the ball as hard as I can.
I'm literally just trying to hit the ball, every single pitch
that is thrown my goal is to try to hit it.
Yep. And I think that's a great
warm-up. That's exactly what you just
said that is that is a staple in any programming that that I have
control over to build a run, anything that I had the control
over like I do. And I call them and I think Chad
calls on the same thing. No takes rounds.
So you literally don't get to take and I try to do them as
often as I possibly can. I don't know that I always do
the best job of explaining the reasoning behind it, that is an
area that I can improve in because it takes like that is.
So that is so very different from what hitters expect and
what people expect in this game, it's actually the Opera, what
did your what the, yes, right. I mean, it's not opposite of
what they're taught, right? Yes, batting practice there.
They're taught. I don't swing at that and BP.
That's a that's 2 inches off the plate.
Like Yeah. So you're never going to swing
at a pitch. Is 2 inches off the plate in a
game. Like, come on, dude.
But it's so anti, you know, what?
They're taught these days. So it takes a lot to get buy-in
with that, but I think that is it might quite possibly be the
best hitting exercise that I like to do.
And could potentially have the most amount of benefit to any
hitter at any level, if you can get the buy-in and get them to
actually fully commit to trying to get something.
Out of it. I mean in some ways I don't know
if I would go that far. I look at it as a warm-up for
me. It's a warm-up.
It's something that gets you perceptually attuned.
I think it gets you to your point, exploring.
I like it a lot. I just don't because I think
really where you have to go with this.
And this is what I see a lot do with a lot of other people,
like, they'll do some things that are ecological.
But To me, you have to take it all the way in terms of
representativeness. I mean, that's where you kind of
go with the ecological approaches like, okay, where are
you on the, on the Continuum of representativeness and to me,
like they hit everything around, is not that representative.
I mean, there's a whole face could be what could be polygamy,
but but it's not, it's it's one slice of the game and I've been
thinking about this and this, this came up in the
conversation. I was having today about like
the martial arts stuff and because martial arts has just
this Panacea of like different things. and so, In a way you're
looking to see. Okay, have you heard of the book
make it stick by Peter Brown? It's about learning.
Yeah. Yeah.
So in it he talks about this idea and concept of interleaving
and so to me, what I want to do is I want to interleave a bunch
of different types of scenarios skills whatever.
So for example like let's like a hit everything around, I might
start there and then I might transition to like a, you know
To strike ground or maybe maybe a transition to runner on third
round you know. Less than two outs, get them in.
You know, like we just we're going to we're going to start.
We're going to start here and then we're going to go over here
and then we might come back to hit everything around again, but
maybe I'm watching the player and I'm like, you're going to do
hit everything around and then you're going to work, you know,
to strike ground or something or Whatever.
So I might mix it up based upon what you see the player needing
I think that's how I would approach it.
It can be hugely beneficial in the example that you just gave
to to provide a context where this exercise that we're doing
to start off. There could be some potential
crossover where you can utilize the skills that you're
developing in the hit everything round or the notation round.
Yes, here is a context where you could potentially use those
skills. Now let's do this and then that
helps them make the connection better because it's like okay
this is why we do this too because then it's the situation
that they might actually be able to deploy that skill.
So the perfect example is you go from Hit everything round two.
A hit and run round. Yeah.
I mean you know, like and which is basically the same thing,
right? It is.
But it isn't like, let's say, I actually put a runner on, you
know, and then we, we actually put fielders out there.
And now now I actually have you because to me, I like the idea
and we've probably talked about this before, you know, whether
it's legend or not. It's something that I think if,
if someone actually did it, then we should try and see if we can
recreate it of Well if the fielders are in motion on a
hit-and-run, do you have the ability to you know or what does
the pitch afford you? Because the now that the
fielders are moving, does that pitch afford?
You put put it in the hole, does it afford you putting in a
different hole and hitting in a different spot where you would
traditionally hit it? and so that's that's to me is
where you make it more specific and then see what they can do
with it. Because yes, it's the same but
it's not the same because once you start putting in different
pieces into that equation and into that task, it's going to
change the behavior. Well, because it changes your
attentional focus and it changes Different variables, which, you
know, are going to alter what you're trying to do, and what
your intentions are, as a result of what you as you as you
alluded to what you're perceiving and the moment which
is going to change that. Also, whatever instructions
you're given by the coach, whatever instructions are given
by the person that is instructing you or developing
you or has expectations of you and in that moment, like, for
example, on a hit-and-run, Run. Most, most coaches.
Want the ball? We're on the ground.
Mmm. I'm not necessarily one of them.
I'm not that rigid on that. But yeah, yeah, a lot of
coaches. It's like whatever you got to
do. You hit everything and it better
be on the ground. You hit the top part of the ball
and make sure it's on the ground.
Those are obvious constraints with what guys are trying to do,
which that, that, that changes it from a note, takes round two.
Okay, yeah, I don't get to take. And I'm supposed to be doing
this, and this is what I'm seeing from the Fats which may
or may not change what I'm trying to do.
Those are a lot of constraints and those are a lot of different
things to try to be like grappling with while at the same
time, being in the moment and being like, focused on the ball
and like having that be your primary focus of what you're
trying to accomplish. So yeah, that obviously adds a
lot of variables, which could then potentially change your
behavior, as a result of all those constraints, whether it be
Environmental psychological, the expectations that are associated
with that as well. Those are all things to consider
that are obvious, very, very different factors from the ones
that you're going to get from just a.
Okay, let's not take anything and let's just hit everything
that we see. It does make it more complex,
for sure. It out of that out. 12.
If you actually have Runners out there and you have a catcher and
a pitcher, like you know how much how much how often is it
said well you swing it everything when you're on a hit
and run it's like let's just think about that.
You really own everything, don't ya, right?
It's the way over your head or if it bounces three feet in
front of the plate you probably shouldn't be swinging at it.
I mean, yeah. If if the catcher can't make a
throw on that on that ball that's being thrown to you.
And it's not a strike and take the darn thing.
Like there's no reason what's the point.
What's the point of taking it Taking a strike there on a pitch
that doesn't deserve to be called a strike and you have all
you did was hurt yourself. It had zero benefit.
You can have a runner on. You have a runner on second
without having to give yourself up.
Yeah. And still have a chance to drive
a mini. Yeah.
And that's what I think.
Do you like by doing that and doing it live with the runner
and stuff is like they begin to and a catcher because the
catcher can then Art to see, like can I get this guy out on
this ball? I mean, because if you have as a
hitter you need to have some sense of what the catcher's
capabilities are so that it can tell you what pitches you should
swinger. Not swing it because we're going
to be as coaches. Mad if you take a pitch on a
hit-and-run that gets the that guy gets the runner thrown out
on. You never like, yeah.
But it bounced. Yeah.
But it bounced right into his glove?
You know what I mean? Like that.
Yeah, that's that's not, that's not going to work.
You still got to swing at that one.
You got to protect the runner. So it to me that that that
explains why you should have these different pieces involved
in your practice activity. Yeah, side note, I don't know
that I would do that because I'm not a big hit run guy
personally. Hmm.
So I don't know that I would Have any players and I'm
coaching where I have the authority over, what they are
doing or not doing a competition.
I don't know that I would put them in that situation because
it just wouldn't be just wouldn't be useful because I'm
not gonna probably not going to be asking them to do that in a
game. Anyway so that's fair.
I mean the whole another conversation now.
Yeah, for me personally, I want I want my offense to be
dexterous adaptable in dextrous also I do You like the idea of a
guy running while a hitter is hitting, that's fair.
And I do like Andrew what you want that to be a straight.
Steal. If guys running like, I do not
want to tell years. I don't tell hitters hey, if you
like if a guy is running and he gets a great jump, I want you to
take that pitch. I don't say that.
Know, if it's something, you feel like you can Hammer crush,
it let the hit-and-runs happen that way.
Mmm, let them happen. It actually might happen more
frequently as a result of just allowing it to organically
happen playing the game with what they're seeing in the
moment, what they're attuning to what what the game is, providing
them kind of giving it to them in that way.
As far as like me like explicitly saying you're going
to run here and you're going to swing no matter what like that's
that's that's that's not who I am as a coach.
I like giving more of that freedom and and kind of teaching
before and after two players, how they could potentially be
picking up better information and being able to, you know,
maybe provide the provide for themselves better ways to be
more successful. I think it's better if it
happens, organically instead of me legislating it by putting a
sign on to say, hey we're hitting and running here.
Like, no, just let it happen. Naturally.
No, I like that. I just so when I'm thinking
about what you're saying, I'm thinking about like, okay, how
would I design? How would I My practice is to
allow the players to fully take advantage of that philosophy.
And so like based upon what you're saying, I would want my
hitters and and Runners to some extent, but no actually Runners
to. So I want my hitters to actually
experience that where they see guys just take off, we don't
know that they're running, they take off.
And quite honestly, I would want guys to have some Attunement.
It's a Field one sensitivity to that.
But then also some sensitivity in a tune meant to is that
really, really a pitch that you can drive.
Because if you feel like, you know, maybe like you initially,
you're like yes, yes. And then you're like, yeah.
Not 100% on this. And you've got a great jump.
Shut it down. You don't know me like that,
that you have to, you have to create scenarios where they,
where they train that field, because otherwise they're just
going to take a hack there and it's going to hurt your guys,
that, you know, he had a great jump.
Time and he fouled it off. Yeah.
And so, but on the flip side,
you then need your Runners. Used to the fact of you go steel
ball, put in the put in play in the air.
You got an evil twin the wall? Yeah, they need to be peeking,
they have to, they have to have that awareness of being able to
find the ball, pick it up and know whether or not, they get a
book, it back to back to their previous base.
Or you know what? Maybe maybe actually you got two
bases or more there and you got to be ready to get going on your
horse. Soooo.
I mean because sometimes I bet you you'd see that to where a
guy just goes to steal and they see it hit and they just stopped
at the base that they were going to so well I think that from
like a base running standpoint and from just like a play in the
game standpoint that is you know, that's just being being as
we talked about a lot here being in the moment, being attuned to
what the ball is doing. Being aware of every bit of
piece of info that you can be taking up around you and the
environment to to then be able to make better decisions.
And be more instinctual with how you are trying to play the game,
that's going to lead to the most amount of success.
So which, you know, would be a very big part from an offensive
standpoint. If I was in control of offense
that I would be trying to instill those Concepts and those
ideas and principles and more specifically, if you're stealing
you like a hundred percent of the time you pee, there there is
never a time that you are stealing that you are not.
Not looking in to see to try to pick up the ball, as it's going
into the Hitting Zone. Like always you, you always need
to be picking that up because you never know if the hitter is
is going to be swing at that pitch or not.
So you need to be picking that up the other thing from a
hitting standpoint and you brought this point up, it's a
really good point. Having conversation with the
hitters to say, listen, I want you to have the freedom to hit,
if it's a Pity that you feel like you can hammer in a gap
somewhere. I also want you to have the
freedom to feel like if You want to take that pitch because you
would rather hit with him on second and him on first, make it
mine. I want to leave that up to them
like, and that is a decision based on them in the moment, how
they're feeling, whether they're confident enough to be able to
take a pitch down the middle, maybe it gets into one strike,
maybe get some 22, but they're confident enough in their
ability to be able to get the job done later in the that too,
because it maybe they want a better RBI opportunity.
Mmm, so having the freedom to do either, or those are
conversations that you have with your hitters as well.
And then it's something you talked about before.
It's something to talk about after ABS so that they can
better be able to determine whether that was a good decision
to either swing or not swing and how they get and how they can be
better from that. Move forward in the future.
As far as a practice design standpoint.
I think that's why I'm such a believer in playing games as
often as you possibly can. Now with the intention of having
conversation before and after so that you can learn from stuff
that happens in the game. But That's why from a practice
design standpoint as often as we can create those situations by
playing actual games, with the freedom, to be able to stop
games. If necessary, to be able to talk
about situations and be able to learn from them, but as often as
you possibly can, you play games so that you put players in those
situations so that you can then facilitate that conversation so
that they can grow from it. But to your point you you can't
attune better in those moments in these types of situations
from a baserunning, standpoint from a hitting standpoint unless
you are actually doing it. And it's actually real which is
why games are so so important for hitters and base runners and
pitchers and catchers and filters and all baseball
players. It's so important for their
development and the ability to be able to create those
conversations comes from that and to I think another way of
doing it, I'm I'm not opposed to scrimmaging.
I know that you know, coaches Old School coaches.
That's what they're doing a lot. It's just a scrimmage.
I mean there's there's some value in utility to that but I
think the the there's another way to approach it as well, like
let's say that's, you know, you you want to argue that, that's
not the best way, what? Like guys need more specific
work. Well, I think you just scale it
down. Instead of it being like just a,
you know, a normal scrimmage. We're like it follows the normal
rules of the game and you just, you just set up those scenarios
where those Those things that you want to work on our and it
it's just a slice of the game. Yeah and I for me I'm I'm kind
of more of an advocate of that I'm not opposed to scrimmaging.
I think it's good. But if you need specific work on
certain slices of the game where you want to give guys a certain
feel because again there's and by feel I mean like feel of a
certain game situation that they're going to have to problem
solve I think you should create those scenarios for them.
And put them in front of them so that they have to work through
it because it comes to this concept.
And this is something that Robert and I wanted to talk
about in a, in a podcast is this idea of knowledge of versus
knowledge about you know, you can get in front of a white
board and tell guys or watch film and tell guys, this is what
you need to do, but they're not like it's way different than
being in there. And from you know, a personal
point of view perspective that experience and that knowledge.
That's knowledge of Purses knowledge about and we want to
get we want guys to acquire knowledge of rather than
knowledge about and so that's that's for me why it's important
to create those Snippets and those slices rather than just
look at film and just talk to guys and tell them what to do.
You want them to actually experience that?
That's the idea of experiential learning by placing yourself in
the scenario whether it be in an actual game or if you're
creating more of a small sided game, mmm type of scenario and
you're repeating that scenario over and over again so that they
have to solve that problem over and over again in a way where
you're able to get the right types of repetitions.
Well I hope you guys enjoyed Is podcast with Caleb Abney.
Pure listening along at home, the battery just died so we
appreciate you listening in. Make sure to head over to
YouTube and subscribe to our YouTube channel where you can
get our clips and all that sort of stuff.
Otherwise make sure to follow Caleb Abney at see, Abney 18, I
believe it is. So if you're not already, make
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You can find Robert at roberts10 far, ey 40 on the the
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