1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,040 Welcome back to Finding the Edge Podcast. 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:05,600 I'm Garrett Boyam, joined with Robert Fry and Garrett Baker. 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,800 And today we have on Tanner, Pruitt. 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:13,200 Tanner, it's great to have you, if you'd like, give us an intro 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,640 on yourself and then yeah, we'll kind of get rolling that way. 6 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,520 Yeah, happy to be here. I'm I'm excited to to have a 7 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,960 good conversation with you guys. Let's see, I started off my 8 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:48,360 coaching career kind of in the facility doing one-on-one 9 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,960 lessons. Eventually Got to be a pitching 10 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,520 coach at Saint Cloud State for a year after that. 11 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,680 Left to go work at Tread Athletics for 2 1/2 years and 12 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,320 then wife and I decided to move back to Minnesota, which is 13 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,680 where we met. Got married and now I am working 14 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,760 at MASH Baseball, and I recently took a volunteer position with 15 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,840 North Central and Minneapolis, so I'll be helping out the 16 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,720 pitchers every once in a while this year as well. 17 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:24,480 And I suppose I should mention I met you at starters back when 18 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,600 Rich and Tyler from emergence were were there and so you were 19 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:34,520 just getting into or getting exposed to ecological dynamics 20 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,800 by those guys. And so I guess a good place to 21 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,960 start would be, you know what's, what's been your coaching 22 00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:43,200 journey. And part of that, I think it's 23 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,840 important to talk about your own playing experience a little bit 24 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:51,120 and so talk a little bit about that, but and how your journey 25 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,560 as a player and coach has evolved over time, especially 26 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,200 now interacting with these ideas. 27 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:04,240 Yeah, so I guess, I mean, at an early age, I guess the the best 28 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,120 thing that that happened to me, I guess as far as sports goes, 29 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,759 was I I played as much as I could when I was young, so I was 30 00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:14,200 exposed to just anything and everything. 31 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,280 Baseball, football, basketball. I played soccer for a couple 32 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,440 years, but you know, those are those are the four that I 33 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:23,920 played. But then it stuck with just 34 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,600 football, basketball, baseball, like those are the three. 35 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:31,280 I was always playing something. So as far as athleticism goes, I 36 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,360 felt like I was doing everything I could there. 37 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,880 However, when it came to football and basketball, I had 38 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,320 nobody, you know, to teach me how to properly throw a 39 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,400 football. I was a quarterback or shoot a 40 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,920 basketball. So I kind of learned on my own. 41 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:51,640 But when it came to baseball, I had, you know, coaches trying to 42 00:02:51,640 --> 00:02:55,200 tell me exactly what to do and and how to pitch, like how I 43 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,960 should be moving according to whatever they thought was ideal. 44 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,960 Now sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. 45 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,320 But when I got to high school, it was like, well, I'm just, you 46 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,680 know, this is how I throw. These are the the checkpoints 47 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:14,040 that I need to hit. And because of the athleticism I 48 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,400 had, because I was still playing football and basketball, it it 49 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,280 worked at that time. So in my mind, I was thinking 50 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,840 like having perfect mechanics, that's what's going to get me to 51 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,640 the next level. That's what's going to help me 52 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,160 propel myself to eventually playing professionally, because 53 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:33,440 that was, that was my goal. But looking through an 54 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,680 ecological lens, you know, everything matters. 55 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,840 And when I was in high school, I didn't really lift weights. 56 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,520 I was 135 lbs all four years, right? 57 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,880 Like, that's not good. So I didn't really have the size 58 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,400 to be able to develop the quality scalable to go to each 59 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,280 next level. So because of that, I ended up 60 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,120 going to a junior college. They really tried changing the 61 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,680 way I threw because then they didn't like how I threw and I 62 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,480 wasn't pitching much. And so it was like, well, I'm 63 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,120 just going to say screw it. I'm going to do what I need to 64 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,360 at least feel good on the mound because they wanted me to throw 65 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,200 sidearm. I used to be, you know, straight 66 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,080 over the top. They didn't like how I had a big 67 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,160 turn in my leg lift. Like they didn't like all those 68 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,800 things. And it really kind of irritated 69 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,399 me. I'm like, it's not always about 70 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:21,360 mechanics. Like, that was my freshman year 71 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,480 of college. I'm like, I'm throwing strikes. 72 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,600 I'm getting out, but I'm still not getting opportunities. 73 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,720 So I left, went to Crown College D3 in Minnesota. 74 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:37,200 Now there is where I really got lost in the mechanic situation 75 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,480 or the deep dive into being perfect rather than focusing on 76 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,960 getting out. So while I was there, we didn't 77 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,240 have a pitching coach and I was an exercise science major. 78 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,440 So I was thinking like everything I was learning in the 79 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,840 textbook was gospel, basically, and I could apply that to my 80 00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:57,840 pitching and I'm going to be the best pitcher out there. 81 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,760 Well, if you look at my ERA in conference, my sophomore year, 82 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,520 my first year at Crown, it was 27. 83 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,040 So you can kind of see how that didn't work. 84 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,360 Junior year I was, I still went down that rabbit hole. 85 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,200 But I think a big part of it was I took the weight room a little 86 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,800 bit more serious. I think that helped me. 87 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,480 So building is general qualities, but I didn't see it 88 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,000 that way. I always saw it as like 89 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,400 mechanics, the weight room. I'm just, I'm just doing it to 90 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,000 put on weight. Like that's what I was doing it 91 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,760 for, not necessarily to build general movement qualities. 92 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,920 And so I had a good year there. Senior year, we finally had a 93 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,040 pitching coach and of course he wanted to change everything. 94 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,040 And of course I was coachable. That's what I was taught to do 95 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,320 growing up. Like when a coach says 96 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,160 something, you do it. And I think the first half of 97 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,040 the year I had twelve walks per nine because I was trying to fit 98 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,840 this coach's mold. And halfway through I I had a 99 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:56,320 similar situation with my freshman year. 100 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:57,640 I said screw it, I'm going to do me. 101 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:03,120 And so that's what I did. And I finished with, I think the 102 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,880 second-half of the year was like 10 or 11 strikeouts per nine. 103 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,840 So significant performance increased when I was myself. 104 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,000 Now, I didn't see it that way until I met Rich and Tyler when 105 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,920 they were talking about, hey, this, it isn't all about perfect 106 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,760 movements. Everybody's going to interact 107 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,720 with the world differently, and because of my experience as a 108 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:29,200 player, it clicked right away. Now, not necessarily the all the 109 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,880 underpinning ideas and the terminology, like I obviously 110 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,320 didn't understand that, like I had no idea what affordances 111 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,640 were. But the idea that it is much 112 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,600 deeper than just how you move, it's who you are. 113 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,440 What information do you find important? 114 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,800 How, how are you going to move or how are you going to. 115 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,080 I don't like using the word interpret, but like how are you 116 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,520 going to bring that information? Like what's meaningful, what are 117 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:55,480 you, what are you going to do with it? 118 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,400 How do you interact with those constraints? 119 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,960 And to me it made sense because every time I said, hey, I'm not 120 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,080 doing what you want me to do, I'm going to, I'm going to do 121 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,480 me, I'm going to be myself. Significant performance increase 122 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:11,520 almost right of way. Now, as I continue to dive 123 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,920 deeper into these subjects, things start to make more and 124 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,200 more sense. You know why I was so good in 125 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,200 high school? Well, I was on a mound every 126 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,840 single day, right? I was exposing to myself to 127 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,520 slices of the game. Now, maybe not enough, as I 128 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,840 probably needed to, but being on the mound six days out of the 129 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,280 week is a lot better than in college where I was on the mound 130 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:37,240 one day a week. You know, So being exposed to 131 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,760 certain things, it's like, OK, so then it started started going 132 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,000 down. How many different things can I 133 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,960 expose my athletes to now that I'm done playing? 134 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,240 This was at starters, boy. And when I met you and it was 135 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,840 like, well, I don't really know. But they're on the mound every 136 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,680 day, whether it's plyos or, like, throwing bullpens. 137 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,520 So it's like that's got to be better. 138 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,640 And then it was like, well, what are they adapting around? 139 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,560 What are they becoming attuned to? 140 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,000 Well, we're throwing the 9 pockets. 141 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:07,560 We probably need a catcher there, you know, just because 142 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,480 throwing to a nine pocket is nothing like throwing to a 143 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,320 catcher. And I knew that, but I didn't 144 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,560 know why. As I begin to understand these 145 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,560 things, then it again, it becomes how much more can we 146 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,960 expose them to while they're still trying to get better? 147 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,040 Like we don't want to just give them enough to where they're 148 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,400 successful every time, but where is their challenge point? 149 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,320 Where can we work through that? And I think as a coach 150 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,120 continuing to go over these things, continue to think about 151 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,559 them. It's like, you know now at MASH, 152 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:37,400 you know we're we're velocity testing, but we have catchers. 153 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,640 We have a live stand in hitter. They don't have a real bat. 154 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,679 They have a handle because we don't want them swinging yet 155 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,960 just because like there's too many things in the cages. 156 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,200 We don't have enough space, which is a constraint that we're 157 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,080 dealing with. But we're exposing them to a 158 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,720 heck of a lot more in the second week of December than they ever 159 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,360 have in their careers. Right. 160 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,680 Like I had a kid go coach, I don't know if we should really 161 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:04,240 have a hitter in. I said, well, you're going to 162 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,240 have to figure out how to throw to a hitter eventually, right? 163 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,920 And he goes, yeah, I guess. I said, if you're worried about 164 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:11,120 hitting him, you shouldn't be pitching. 165 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,680 And if the hitter is worried about getting hit, he probably 166 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:17,240 shouldn't be playing baseball. And he goes, all right, then 167 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,480 I'll do it. Then like, just no big deal. 168 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,680 He PR Ed by 4 miles an hour and he threw 6 out of 10 strikes. 169 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:29,480 So like that, not only did he, like have another level of focus 170 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:34,040 and intentionality with what he was doing, but it legitimized 171 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,120 every number. Because you can throw 6 out of 172 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,920 10 strikes and PR to a nine pocket any day of the week. 173 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,400 But when you add the stress of, oh, now I got to worry about a 174 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,520 catcher catching it and there's a hitter in the box, I feel like 175 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,520 it just legitimizes those numbers so much more because 176 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,640 they are being exposed to what they're facing in game. 177 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,720 And this whole time throughout this on ramp leading up to 178 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,760 testing, like we haven't touched mechanics at all. 179 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,480 Everything we've done is Rep without Rep Hey, you know we're 180 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,320 going to do shot foot Med you know, for Med balls today. 181 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:08,360 But I don't really care what your footwork looks like. 182 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,080 Do whatever you want. So we'll kind of switch it up 183 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,200 those ways. Maybe we have them do overhead. 184 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,920 Hey, maybe try not moving your feet or take a step here, take a 185 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,080 step with your other foot. Just getting them to explore 186 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,240 different movements, different solutions to the task and in 187 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,080 general areas. And then we bring it into 188 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,200 throwing with, hey, we're going to do single leg throws. 189 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,720 I don't care what leg you're standing on, Figure out how to 190 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,800 hit the nine pocket. Maybe we do jump throws, figure 191 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,040 it out. All these things where we're 192 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,280 telling them figure it out, Here's the activity, have at it. 193 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,640 And again, we weren't working on mechanics, but they're allowed 194 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,200 to move freely and however they need or however they want to 195 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,360 depending on the task. Engagements up. 196 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:56,200 Performance is up. There are a lot of good things 197 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,480 happening that way and that's I guess where I'm at today. 198 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,280 So hopefully that kind of gives you an accurate picture of where 199 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:11,200 I've been and where I'm at. So I kind of want to explore a 200 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,240 little bit more the exploration stuff. 201 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,840 I'm I'm kind of curious because I know I want to Luke Baker in 202 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:22,040 on this. How have you guys gone to like 203 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:27,120 utilize exploration within? How do you see the role of 204 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,080 exploration within developing pitchers? 205 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,720 This is a question for for both you, Tanner and and Baker. 206 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,200 Garrett, you want to go? Yeah, I mean First off I'm fired 207 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,080 up that we actually have a pitching episode right here this 208 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:42,880 is, this is this is an exciting one I feel. 209 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,400 Although the last one we we did release again I don't know the 210 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,520 order we're going to release these I guess we I slanted it 211 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,800 towards pitching a little bit but yeah the the cell fires me 212 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,160 up. I mean I I think a lot of a lot 213 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,280 of what you said definitely resonated with me Tanner. 214 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,440 And I think any time we we hop on a call together I feel like 215 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,240 the the juices get flowing and I feel like a lot of ideas come 216 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,360 out. But like even something just 217 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,880 bringing up like you talking about like the Rep without Rep 218 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,280 and like changing up how they how they move every throw and 219 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:09,760 like we're not working on mechanics. 220 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,200 But that's the one thing I think people may not be able to 221 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,280 understand is how that could potentially influence your 222 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,720 overall movement, even if you're not working on exactly the 223 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,000 perfect way to move, right. And I think that's one thing 224 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,560 I've seen and just allowing people to have a little more 225 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:27,880 freedom, maybe even if just regular catch play. 226 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,480 But we're moving around and we're throwing different ways. 227 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,520 But you have a goal attached to it, like you're trying to throw 228 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,640 it here every single time in the reorganization. 229 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,720 And something I'll bring in there is like and Sean Miska 230 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,680 really challenged me on this, but it's a reorganization of the 231 00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:45,320 system. Like perceptually I have to 232 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,480 connect differently on every single throw. 233 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,200 Like just like my thoughts are going to be shaped a little 234 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,120 different every single throw we go and we're organizing the 235 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,240 cognition, the perception and then the motor system all 236 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,440 intertwined together. And I think those that 237 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,560 reorganization and even just like challenging, challenging 238 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,320 like the the movement itself will be challenging how well you 239 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,720 can just reorganize your intentions to that throw to be 240 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,880 able to lock in and get it to where you want to go every 241 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,000 single time. So I think that's that's really 242 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,840 cool. Again, there's a lot of places 243 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,320 you could go with it, but I think like that and that's kind 244 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,000 of one thing I want to ask you, Tanner, based on that is like 245 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,920 everybody wants like the change in movement, right? 246 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,240 Like they want to, they want better mechanics quote UN quote 247 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,920 like where do where are you starting to see or how do you 248 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,720 see like the Rep without Rep or the freedom of movement start to 249 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,360 change that Or like how you potentially how that potentially 250 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,640 happens within the time scale like how does that actually take 251 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,840 place because that's where people I think get stuck in this 252 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:49,640 this idea. So, so as I I'm trying to 253 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,480 understand your question. So I guess understanding or 254 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,400 you're asking about like when we do the exploration, how it 255 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,560 transfers to pitching? Yeah, yeah. 256 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:00,160 And how we see change in movement. 257 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,440 Yeah. So like, you'll probably see 258 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,120 like them actually start to move a little better on the mound. 259 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,080 And like to the quote, UN quote, mechanics may look a little bit 260 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,320 better than they did in some form or fashion. 261 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,840 And but we're not working on technical mechanics, right? 262 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,400 So like that that's where people get stuck. 263 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,280 And I'm just curious to like your thoughts on that, like 264 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,360 where is it coming from? How does it happen? 265 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,680 Or just like, what are you seeing as you do it? 266 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,920 Yeah, I think that when you allow them to explore and you 267 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,520 give them the freedom when they get to the mound with that 268 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:36,440 mindset, it's less robotic. Because almost every kid that 269 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,360 I'm working with at MASH, they have had pitching coaches in the 270 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,160 past where they need to hit these positions. 271 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,480 I have one kid that has never been in a pitching program, 272 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,440 never done lessons or never done group classes. 273 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:55,840 And he PR by like 7 miles an hour or 6 in just five weeks of 274 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,720 throwing on an on ramp. And we're like, hey, we're just 275 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,080 going to let it rip today. Batter's in the box. 276 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,080 You got to catch her like throw as many strikes as you can. 277 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,960 You've got 10 pitches. His old PR was 81. 278 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,080 That was last year in game. This year he hits 86. 279 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,400 And I asked him, I was like, yeah, who who have you worked 280 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,560 with before? And he goes nobody. 281 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,840 And this was right after he asked me about working on 282 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,920 mechanics. I said honestly, with your age 283 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,640 and you sat 85 and touched 86, I'm not messing with you. 284 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,360 Like that's my job right now. I'm not. 285 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,720 I'm not messing with anything. And with the other kids, it's 286 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,400 like they're trying to understand that they don't have 287 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,480 to fit this perfect mold and as soon as they understand it, 288 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,520 they're plyos. When they throw plyos, it just 289 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:42,960 looks athletic. It looks smooth. 290 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,920 Now we only spend like 5 to 10 minutes on plyos. 291 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,120 Give them just some things to do with it, have at it. 292 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:50,840 There's a lot of choice built in. 293 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,120 But then they start to gravitate towards constraints or throwing 294 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:00,160 activities that just feel really good, gets them in a positive 295 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,200 mind state. So when they go to the mound, 296 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,200 everything feels good. They feel loose, they feel free, 297 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,640 and they're not trying to hit these perfect positions. 298 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,600 And then what I see is I start to actually see what kind of 299 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,760 physiological constraints are at play when they're free, because 300 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,040 when they're trying to force things, it's not authentic. 301 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,600 When they can move authentically, then you can 302 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:25,640 start to see like, OK, this guy probably has a lot of T spine 303 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,360 extension, whatever. So that's that's something to 304 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,280 look for. Like if it starts to go away, 305 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,600 maybe we start giving them more activities where they get back 306 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,080 into some extension. Cool. 307 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,600 And we can start to look at it that way Because when you look 308 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,840 at is it Newell's triangle, Do I have that right? 309 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,680 Yeah. The Organism environment and 310 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,200 task well. And through an ecological lens, 311 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,960 I see a lot of coaches going way towards environment and task and 312 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,960 then ignoring the actual Organism, right, which you can't 313 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:58,560 ignore any part of that triangle. 314 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,440 But we also can't put too much stock into one over the other, 315 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,000 but being able to see that. So then I can see, like, OK, 316 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,200 cool, maybe we don't need to have this guy do a specific 317 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,680 movement just because we don't need to force him into a certain 318 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,160 range of motion that he just doesn't have. 319 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,520 Like, give him something that he's good at. 320 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,520 Have him explore that. Now you can argue that, well, 321 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,359 what if they need to open up range of motion? 322 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:26,960 Well, do they Do they really need to open up range of motion 323 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,640 or do we just need to get them ready to move on a mound? 324 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,880 And if we can give them things that they are going to enjoy and 325 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,440 going to be engaged with, then why not just give them what they 326 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,120 favor or what they're good at already, if that makes any 327 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:41,400 sense. Yeah, no, for sure. 328 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,160 And I think son you even you're even pulling on right from the 329 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,400 get go talking about like it just opens them up and freely 330 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,120 move authentically. And I think sometimes that's 331 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,720 like the mechanic work quote UN quote mechanic work that guys 332 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,080 need in general because like the all the fixed and frozen degrees 333 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,680 of freedom just because you're like chasing this ideal model. 334 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,520 And I think that's that's the complete difference of what 335 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,800 you're talking about. And like I love the way you're 336 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,240 you're approaching it because once you see that how they 337 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,760 authentically move then you might be able to see some those 338 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,000 physiological constraints that you could OK like this may this 339 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,720 may be a rate limiter to you just physiologically and that 340 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,360 could be something that we could let you go explore over here and 341 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,080 you may you may find something over there. 342 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,800 But even just in general, just allowing people to explore and I 343 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,280 think you you wrapped it up really nicely, it's like that 344 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,960 may just free him up in a way where there's moving that much 345 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,880 better and the mechanics just changed naturally because of 346 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,800 that. And you get a better version of 347 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,240 that picture just because he did that. 348 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,160 And I always wonder like how many, how many people need that 349 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,120 and just the OK to go do that and you're going to see some of 350 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,160 the changes that people are looking for in the 1st place. 351 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,680 Because I think a lot of it and I I've always been interested in 352 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,040 the idea of like getting getting or understanding what cues 353 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,000 they've been taught early on because that could directly 354 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,280 shape how they move and they're trying to force that. 355 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,080 And like we would never know that if that conversation ever 356 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,920 happens or you just never give them the freedom to go explore, 357 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,280 move differently since then they're no longer thinking about 358 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,240 that. Oh I had, I had this coach tell 359 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,360 me I need to sit sit deeper in my back leg. 360 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,920 So those dudes over cooking that and he's been over cooking in 361 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,400 his entire life and that was in the the spot he should never be 362 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,760 in physiologically and he's trying to move from there, you 363 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,160 know? Yeah. 364 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,560 And I think with most coaches through that traditional 365 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,000 approach, you don't, you don't even have them asking the 366 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,280 athletes questions. Like it's just they they tell 367 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,520 them what to do and hopefully the athlete does it. 368 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,640 But like there were kids that I was asking where, you know they 369 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,800 trying to work on their their ideal hinge position. 370 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,520 I said well what have what have you been taught? 371 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:48,720 Like what are what are you trying to feel? 372 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,560 And he, like, couldn't answer because one, I don't think he's 373 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,080 ever been asked that question of what he is trying to do. 374 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,880 And the only thing he could give me was, well, I've just told, 375 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,920 like you just said, get deeper. And I said, well, what if we 376 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,920 just didn't do that? And he, like he, he couldn't 377 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,840 comprehend it. I said, let's go, let's go grab 378 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,280 a bat. We're going to take a donor, 379 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,200 donor activity here. I said, I want you to swing this 380 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,200 bat as hard as you can. And he did it. 381 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,320 I was like, OK, now I want you to do it again. 382 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,000 But when your front foot lands, I want you to freeze. 383 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,600 And so he did it. And I said, how does that feel? 384 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:27,840 He feels powerful. I said, OK, there you go, Go do 385 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,920 that on a mound now. And he goes, oh, so that's what 386 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,880 I'm supposed to feel. I was like, sure, yeah, I'm not 387 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,280 in your body. But if it feels powerful, then, 388 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,440 yeah, that that's probably how you should throw. 389 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:43,800 I'm not going to tell you to do that. 390 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,000 Exactly. But you should probably create 391 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,560 some kind of feel where you're powerful. 392 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,840 He goes, oh, OK, that makes sense. 393 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,480 And he's doing, he's doing a lot better. 394 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,280 He's not locked up. His degrees of freedom are not 395 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:02,400 frozen as much as they were before, but athletes being asked 396 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,280 questions and given ownership, they they tend to just kind of 397 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,640 freeze when you talk to them because they're not used to it, 398 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,600 which I think is very sad. And I think it's funny like you 399 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,360 mentioned, like when they get that kind of freedom or ask the 400 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:18,200 question, it's like they don't. They have no clue where to go. 401 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,320 Like they're stuck right there. Like they've never explored, 402 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,120 like they've never, never had the opportunity to actually try 403 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:27,320 something on their own versus like just being told exactly, 404 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,840 especially like in the in the facility. 405 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,480 Like you're in a facility like doing it completely different. 406 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,960 But the majority of facilities it's and to be fair, like you're 407 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,880 in a tough spot, like you do lessons and the parent expects 408 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,000 you to be coaching the entire time and telling them what to do 409 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,120 the entire time. And that's perceived as good 410 00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:46,360 coaching. Which to be fair, like not to 411 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:48,680 knock everybody in facilities, but that's that's kind of like 412 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,920 you almost constraint on you and trying to work around that, kind 413 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,040 of like what you're doing there, asking questions, getting them 414 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,280 to do things is if you can get to the spot where it kind of 415 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,920 clicks, like they're going to want to keep coming back since 416 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,000 they're going to have some freedom and be able to do that. 417 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,240 But getting to that point's really hard since no, no kid, 418 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,440 even at school, right? Like I've heard that talked 419 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:08,760 about a ton. Like they don't have that 420 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,080 freedom in school either. So they never have that time to 421 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,400 go there and maybe maybe in a video game, but even that has 422 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,960 certain constraints, but they're more willing to explore there. 423 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,920 That's about it, right. So it's like that whole new 424 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,560 light bulb that comes off is like, oh, like I am my own 425 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,000 unique individual. Like maybe, maybe I do need to 426 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,520 find what actually works best for me versus like this one 427 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,640 pitcher that this coach modeled me to And then side by side and 428 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,280 I was supposed to get to that exact position. 429 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,520 But again, like, to be fair, like in the facility setting, 430 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,640 you have constraints and it's tough to be able to find that. 431 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,640 And that's where I think you guys at MASH are doing it really 432 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,440 unique way, which I really like to hear. 433 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,560 Appreciate that. Yeah, it's been fun. 434 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,040 Yeah. And so kind of build off what 435 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,440 Garrett and Tanner have been talking about. 436 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,240 And Tanner, you mentioned newest theory of constraints and you 437 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,200 also mentioned, you know different PRS. 438 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,480 In your experience with MASH, how have you kind of intertwined 439 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,040 both the newest theory of constraints and ecological 440 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,480 dynamics into something where we can track better in terms of, 441 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,840 you know, analytics slash you know, just odd numbers theory to 442 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,160 be able to intertwine those two and, you know, be able to have 443 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,000 results with those teachings? Yeah. 444 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,640 So I think like like a big thing that we're doing is every time 445 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,200 they're on a mound there is something that represents a 446 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,880 hitter in the box whether it's the plastic dummy hitters that 447 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,160 we bought or as of recently what we did. 448 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,400 And which I think is incredible that the staff at MASH has like 449 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,920 bought into this and we started doing since the second week of 450 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,720 December is the the hitting classes at the 30 hour mark will 451 00:23:52,720 --> 00:24:01,520 send hitters over to stand in and that's that is a a drill or 452 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,640 a whatever you want to call it as part of their their classes 453 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,480 their curriculum like OK you two you're going to go over and 454 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,320 track pitches you each get 10 come over next to go over. 455 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,000 So they've really bought in because one like they understand 456 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,440 that OK if we want to be better as a facility everybody needs to 457 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,280 be better. So we have that environmental or 458 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,920 even a task constraint too, because you got to throw to a 459 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,560 hitter now. But there's all, you know, 460 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,880 hitter in the environment. It's all kind of put together, 461 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,360 but they're understanding that hitters probably need to at the 462 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:35,200 very least, track pitches out of the hand. 463 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,000 Some of them are even taking swings, They just have a a 464 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,240 handle of a broken bat. Some of them are actually 465 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,000 swinging at pitches like to try and get the timing down, which I 466 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,440 think is great. So pitchers are getting better, 467 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,640 hitters are getting better, we're getting more and more 468 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,640 catchers, so they're getting better. 469 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,920 So environment and task wise, I think that's huge. 470 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,320 And then sorry, what was the second part of your question 471 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,560 tracking? Yeah. 472 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,240 Like how does tracking that kind of, you know, the PRS, the 473 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,800 strike percentage, how does that help within your kind of that 474 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,000 newest theory of constraints? Yep. 475 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:18,800 So what it shows us is OK they we they gave us their old PRS 476 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,200 right. And so OK, that that is your in 477 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,360 game PR. That's the most accurate, the 478 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:27,000 best picture we're going to get from you. 479 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:28,920 What you're how hard you're throwing in game. 480 00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:31,400 Now I don't believe that velocity is everything but 481 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,320 unfortunately a lot of these college coaches like if you 482 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,720 don't throw X miles an hour, they're not going to give you a 483 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,040 look. So it is I think part of our job 484 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,320 to at least help them get to that next level best as 485 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,600 possible. But for example, there were, 486 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,520 there were two extreme cases that we saw. 487 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,320 One, this guy is this kids old PR. 488 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,600 He told us it was like 80. I think it was he's like 415 489 00:25:54,600 --> 00:26:00,440 years old 1516, and he throws to a batter in the box and he's 75. 490 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,760 And I asked him, I was like, hey man, like how's everything 491 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,040 going? Like are you feeling all right? 492 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,640 He goes, honestly, coach that hitter in there is messing with 493 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,400 me. I said, OK, well, there there is 494 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,120 our starting point because he only threw maybe 2 out of 10 for 495 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:18,040 strikes and his average was way down. 496 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,440 And so it was like, OK, so this tells us that this is our 497 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,000 starting point for you. We really need you to spend more 498 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,480 time in this environment, right? So that's that's big for us. 499 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,880 Like, there's a lot of anxiety as soon as the batter's in the 500 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,880 box. Then I found out the PR he was 501 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,880 giving us was into a net 10 feet away, not full distance. 502 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,400 So there's that. The other extreme case was that 503 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,960 kid that never had a pitching coach and he PR by like 6 miles 504 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,840 an hour and he threw. I think he was our top strike 505 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,600 thrower for that day, not just for that hour, but for that 506 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,120 whole day he threw. I think it was 7 or 8 out of 10. 507 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,920 I'm like, OK, cool. So maybe that isn't his 508 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,680 challenge point, but it's definitely good that he's being 509 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,000 exposed to it. So now we or I have to then 510 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,320 figure out like, OK, is it lefty versus righty, because we only 511 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,680 had righties in that day. So does he need to face 512 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,840 different handed hitters or is he just that good and that 513 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,320 skilled with this fastball? Do we need to start looking at 514 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,680 other pitches now? So like, now what we're doing 515 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:27,000 for a while is when they get to when they're on the mound, the 516 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,760 batter's in there, they're going to throw all pitches. 517 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,560 So like yesterday we played a rolling count game because we 518 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,640 don't do one-on-one lessons. It's all group stuff. 519 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,760 So they're in a line. First guy throws the first 520 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,600 pitch. OK, now the count's O1. 521 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,800 He threw a fastball in. You've got the next pitch. 522 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,440 What are you throwing next? OK, what is the next guy 523 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,200 throwing next based off of what the previous guy threw. 524 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,560 So now they're starting to work pitches starting to understand 525 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,440 like, OK, if you went fastball in, probably should go something 526 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,240 soft away. OK, now what is the next guy 527 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,320 going to do after that? And we kind of let them problem 528 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,040 solve through it. So then now I can really start 529 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,960 to see like, oh, that guy Yanks his slider every single time 530 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,440 that he tries to go to the outside. 531 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,040 So he probably needs to look or start the pitch somewhere else 532 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,240 because he keeps yanking at 10 feet. 533 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,520 Catcher can't even get to it. So then we can start to see, do 534 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:17,640 they struggle with certain pitches? 535 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:18,960 Do they struggle in certain counts? 536 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,440 Do they struggle with certain hitters, that type of thing. 537 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,680 And then we're not necessarily keeping track of it then, but 538 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,040 then at the end of the program, we're going to have live A BS 539 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,640 and that will be like basically the final Test like, OK, the 540 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,320 everything that we were exposing to everything that we discussed, 541 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,400 like can you do it on your own now? 542 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,080 And we're going to start live ABS probably in like February. 543 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,480 They're going to get at least a full month of live ABS once a 544 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,280 week. So that's kind of how we're 545 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,280 using the tracking to understand, you know, the 546 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,440 Newell's triangle theory of constraints, like what part of 547 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,800 it do we need to manipulate for the athlete or for the group? 548 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,120 Because I have some groups where it's like they all seem to be 549 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,800 not the same but struggling with similar things, which I find 550 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,640 very interesting. And I found it pretty 551 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,160 interesting that you have like these different pictures come in 552 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,000 for essentially one pitch. Just say, hey, here's, you know, 553 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,440 pitcher X through this pitch previously picture Y through 554 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,720 this. So I wanted to ask, are you for 555 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,960 those instances too? Are you incorporating a catcher 556 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,480 in a batter? As much as we can, yeah, so. 557 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,120 So the the tough part with catchers is it's an open sign up 558 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,640 sheet and sometimes there will be 3 catchers and sometimes one 559 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,160 catcher will sign up and he doesn't show. 560 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,200 So this is the first year we're doing it. 561 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,800 I got here like 2 weeks before we started our offseason 562 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,400 programs, so we weren't necessarily able to get all of 563 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,200 that figured out right away. But for the next winter, we kind 564 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,880 of have a pretty good idea of OK, we we need to do this and 565 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,600 this to make sure we have what we need. 566 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,760 But as often as possible, we're getting a catcher and basically 567 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,440 we just tell the hitters, hey, at the 30 mark for these hours, 568 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,840 this is when we need you guys and they send them over. 569 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,080 What what I like about, you know, your your thought process 570 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,480 of incorporating the individual task environment constraints 571 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,160 when like using numbers to analyze this kind of stuff. 572 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,040 If you don't have all three intertwined, you can't really 573 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,520 put a, you know, a clear clear model behind it because you're 574 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,360 you're missing out on some key ingredients. 575 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,080 So that's just something I kind of wanted to bring in a little 576 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,440 bit because it's hard to be able to say like I know what happens 577 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,640 a lot in in, you know, kind of small college baseball, but 578 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,880 throwing to just a catcher or again throwing to a nine pocket 579 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,840 and saying, oh, you know, this was about 70% command. 580 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,760 Well, does he actually because when in game does he ever throw 581 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,040 to a nine pocket? Never. 582 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,640 So And you know, there's no battle there. 583 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,560 So how can we actively, you know, incorporate that when 584 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:04,480 that's just never going to happen. 585 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,400 So I appreciate the fact that you can incorporate all three at 586 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,240 MASH and that's really kind of what what's pushing it to the 587 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,640 next level because you're trying to get as representative as 588 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,400 possible to what is actually going to happen. 589 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,080 Yeah. And something that I I just 590 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,880 really appreciate working here is that Weston Jermaine has been 591 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,960 totally on board with it. He's, he's the director of 592 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,200 pitching, I guess you want to say and and he's like look like 593 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,160 we this is what what we need to start doing. 594 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,760 And I was like sweet, this is what I do like perfect. 595 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,360 Like they were on board basically before I even got 596 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,360 hired or at least Weston was. And then when we were able to 597 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,320 explain how valuable these things are, it was like, OK, 598 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,080 yeah, why are we not doing this at this point? 599 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,600 That's good. I wanted to kind of loop back. 600 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:00,640 I mean, there's so many different ways to go. 601 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,960 We can go actually down like the the tracking, you know, and 602 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,880 analytic side of things. I mean, there's one at some 603 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,440 point I want to go and talk about bio mechanics, 'cause 604 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,960 that's that's something that we touched on. 605 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,720 But I wanted to at least go back to exploration for a second. 606 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,880 And just for me, what I've seen or just noticed when thinking 607 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:27,120 about this whole idea and this concept of Rep without Rep, What 608 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,480 I tend to notice is that, OK, the idea is Rep without Rep, 609 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,880 like different every single time. 610 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,640 But I think sometimes it's about finding because each Rep is 611 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,200 going to have its own subtle nuance to it. 612 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,800 You know, just by the mere nature of the fact that you 613 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,560 know, previous previous experience or things that have 614 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,080 have recently happened are going to influence how we're 615 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:52,360 perceiving the current environment. 616 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,240 So just by that small change alone, not to mention that the 617 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,200 fact that like your fatigue level or your energy level is 618 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,920 going to fluctuate moment to moment as well. 619 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:02,760 You have all these different things. 620 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,080 So just by that alone you're going to get some variation. 621 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:16,880 But what I've noticed in in my own practice design and 622 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,680 interacting with athletes or just watching athletes naturally 623 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,240 try to explore, you know, you give them sort of a like, hey, I 624 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,240 want you to try to do this Rep without Rep But what eventually 625 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,240 happens is they find and I'm going to use like from dynamic 626 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,920 system theory here, they're going to find this attractor 627 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,480 state. So everything is going to 628 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,840 converge, like it's going to start fairly random or there's 629 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,880 going to be not random, but like there's going to be more 630 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,400 variation. And then as time goes on, even 631 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,120 though you have you've you've, you've told them like, hey, I 632 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,360 want you to do Rep without Rep Often times what I see is that 633 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,520 there is some variation, it's pretty small and then it just 634 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,520 comes back to being fairly consistent there with with 635 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:04,680 hardly at all any variation. And So what I tend to think is 636 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:10,639 that if since that is the case, we have to continually help the 637 00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,400 athlete search. And by that I mean sometimes we 638 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,040 have to give them inspiration and I want to use that word 639 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,000 specifically because by inspiration I mean showing them 640 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,360 possible ways of of moving. So for example, I've been 641 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,159 thinking about this and I want to throw this to you guys. 642 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,280 You know, I've talked a little bit with oh, I can't remember 643 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,880 his name right now off the off the top of my head, but he does 644 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,280 like the flow stuff. Does anybody know who I'm 645 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,120 talking about? Gallo. 646 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:42,920 Dockflow or whatever what's is? My own Gallo is. 647 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,679 My own Gallo. Yes, Ishmael Gallo. 648 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,280 Forgive me Sir, if I got your your name wrong. 649 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:50,880 I've talked with him on the phone. 650 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,280 He's a great guy. Some of the. 651 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,000 I like some of the stuff that he's doing. 652 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,000 It's it's not fully ecological, but you can take it and make it 653 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,600 ecological. That's where I've been getting 654 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,720 really excited with the stuff. I didn't, I didn't love it 655 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:08,120 initially just because of the fact that it's kind of rote, you 656 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,000 know like hey here's the mover moving pattern. 657 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,320 Here's how you how you should move. 658 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,120 And then you know in some ways I mean because in talking with 659 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,480 him, he understands. You know, like I don't think 660 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,120 he's 100% trying to force a person to move this way. 661 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,680 These pattern like these movements that he's giving 662 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,040 people, they tend to clean up just by doing more repetitions 663 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,960 of them. You know it, you know because 664 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,680 again everything works back towards an attractor state. 665 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,520 If the way that I'm thinking about it is with the tractor 666 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,080 states or or these landscapes of a possible ways of moving. 667 00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:42,560 The more you go down a path or like you let's say for example 668 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,560 you go outside OK based upon the environment. 669 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,280 Let's say you're walking through the woods based upon the 670 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,600 environment. Certain areas are going to Ford 671 00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:57,560 walking through more and are going to be more accessible to 672 00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,920 you. And so as you navigate through 673 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:03,880 the forest eventually you're going to now you're going to 674 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,120 tend to go through certain routes because they tend to be 675 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,400 more appealing to you and then they become more efficient for 676 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,560 you. And so I say all that to say 677 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,000 that that this helps explain like, OK, why is it through 678 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,480 variation we tend to see consistent patterns and and so 679 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,360 if we want to be able to understand how to navigate 680 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,840 through more parts of the landscape, we have to begin to 681 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,160 introduce like hey, what happens if we go over here, let's go 682 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,160 over here. And so for example, I like to 683 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:39,040 take because in the past when I have said, hey, I want you to 684 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,240 explore, show me how many different ways you can do this. 685 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,440 Most of the time they're only going to express it in one or 686 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,640 two, maybe three different ways. But if I want to, if I want to 687 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:54,000 continue to pull out more exploration and because again, 688 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,360 like we talked about before, athletes have not been because 689 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,040 of the one, how people have been coaching them and two the school 690 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,040 system they have not their the creative side has been often 691 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,480 times really dampened. And so to start to pull that out 692 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,080 and help foster that for them, we have to begin to give them 693 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,040 and show them different ways and eventually over time, they'll be 694 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,240 able to do that on their own. But in the early stages we have 695 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:30,640 to foster it and so I think what's his name Doctor Doctor 696 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:36,760 Flo Flo guy I anyways I was trying to pull up his his 697 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,320 Twitter. I I don't have it off off hand 698 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,480 but anyways so with his stuff I really like it because I I see 699 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,400 it as a potential for for different exploration. 700 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,800 So like kind of pulling from his system that he's developed. 701 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,520 You know like there's there's all these cool different ways 702 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,440 for example of guys, guys going and sliding picking up a ball 703 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,640 and like planting and and turning and throwing. 704 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,160 I think that's really cool. And why why do I think that's 705 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,200 cool? Well, because when I look at 706 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,160 infielders and where let's just say for example I want to I want 707 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,760 to work and help a guy improve their lead leg block. 708 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,600 Well, if you watch an infielder go to their backhand and then 709 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,520 have to quick off their quick plant and throw, often times 710 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,640 they block really, really well. And why is that? 711 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,720 To me it's because of the constraints of of that movement 712 00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:28,520 affords blocking, like having a really good lead leg block. 713 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:33,320 And so as a result, like OK, if I want to help a guy, a player, 714 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,040 explore blocking lead leg blocking, maybe I put them in 715 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,160 different environments and like, OK, how can I kind of do this? 716 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,360 To me this is where it gets interesting. 717 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,560 And just as I'm thinking about this, OK, what if, what if we we 718 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,640 actually turf, you know how I tread they have you know those 719 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,160 banks and mounds you know that are all wood, right. 720 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,720 Well what if we we actually turf that and then now all of a 721 00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:00,240 sudden we go, we we create this like mound or hill and we can 722 00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:03,400 start doing different things and different explorations on it. 723 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,480 So one being like OK I slide in you know I, I grab, I pick up 724 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,360 the ball like he has any like spins and turns and then throws 725 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,680 it you know quick. So like to me like how many 726 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,000 different ways can we explore when we start to manipulate the 727 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,960 environment. I see it as being harder you 728 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,600 know with your traditional mound, portable mound, it's just 729 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,360 not enough space. But so that's that's to me like 730 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,200 you know, could we explore because I know I'm, I'm even 731 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:28,680 thinking about DCTC for a second. 732 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:35,280 Here we have, we have these kind of like low hills and slopes 733 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,160 that are outside the field. You know, like how can we begin 734 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,680 to utilize our space a little bit better for exploration and 735 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,080 throwing and being able to throw in different ways off different 736 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,360 slopes Because that, you know, obviously there's there's a 737 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:52,440 place for this athletic, this athleticism for pitchers, right, 738 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,520 because of your PF PS. Like how can we make PF PS more 739 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,400 interesting? I think, you know, starting to 740 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,400 think about it in terms of like infield plays and throws and all 741 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,000 that sort of stuff is is one thing. 742 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,480 But for me anyways. That, to me, is what I think is 743 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:11,920 important when we begin to. Utilize exploration for players 744 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,960 is that we sometimes have to shift either the intention or 745 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,920 the task constraint a little bit and shift their attention to be 746 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:26,600 able to explore more of the the space, the possible ways of 747 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,280 moving a little bit more. And so because I think if we 748 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:38,480 want to see players begin to express more athleticism on the 749 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:43,400 mound, they need to also have explored more athletic ways to 750 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,800 move. And so because I what what has 751 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,360 bothered me a little bit is that everybody talks about athletic 752 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,160 throws for pitchers and all it is is a jump throw and it's like 753 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,520 well that's actually a very small narrow band of throwing. 754 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,720 You know like yes you do have to be athletic to do it. 755 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,560 But there's more ways to be athletic than just a jump throw 756 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,000 or throwing from one leg And so for me that's where I I've I've 757 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:13,720 liked what what's it? Doctor Doctor Flo. 758 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:19,320 I want to see if that if yeah I should yeah doctor Doctor Gallo. 759 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,240 I can I can actually pronounce that well. 760 00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:23,280 So Doctor Gallo his stuff like I think. 761 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,800 I think that's a good good space to like borrow inspiration from 762 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,240 is like the the system that he's he's worked really hard to put 763 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:32,200 together. I think you know there's a lot 764 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,080 that we from an ecological perspective could borrow from 765 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,160 what he is doing and like adapt it to more of an ecological 766 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,320 approach. So if you guys are not following 767 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,920 Doctor Gallo it's A at flows doc on Twitter. 768 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,480 So anyways that's my that's my little rant there. 769 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:56,160 I'll let if anybody has any thoughts jump in on that before 770 00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,520 I switch to the next thing. Yeah, No, I and I'll just touch 771 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,840 on this real quick son. I've been thinking a little bit 772 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,840 about and it was from a graph that Keith David showed, I 773 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,000 believe it was him in the SMSC, where's the attractor Wells was 774 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,720 he brought those up. But to be able to be in a 775 00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:16,000 created a creative and more innovative or authentic mover, 776 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,600 right. The deeper we get these movement 777 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,840 wells, right, the less creative we're going to be able to be and 778 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,080 less like unique and novel. We can't we can be. 779 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,520 And I think I think especially what you're talking about, I 780 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,760 think the same with us as coaches as being able to expand 781 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,920 our toolbox a little bit because we'll create these deep wells of 782 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,840 how we coach and like yeah with athletic throws we we maybe make 783 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,640 it a little more shallow where it used to be like perfect 784 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,840 repetition and we'll do a jump throw. 785 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,800 But not doing the same thing every single time as a coach or 786 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,280 deploying the same thing and being able to us explore a 787 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,680 little bit, we'll get those to be a little bit shallower and 788 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,360 now we can surf a little bit differently. 789 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,440 And I liked your idea of like the the path. 790 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:56,840 And because I was thinking because we've been doing a 791 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,520 little bit hiking since I've been back in the Northeast, it's 792 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,880 like if there's a path that's really like really set and it's 793 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,680 very obvious where I should go, like I'm probably going to 794 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,040 follow that almost every single time. 795 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,360 But if it's a little, a little bit little murky and you don't 796 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,680 know exactly where you go, it's I'm probably going to go 797 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,040 different depending how, how the day speaks to me. 798 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,520 I may go over here, I may go over there, I may go around this 799 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,320 tree or that tree or whatever. But it's because the the path 800 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,000 isn't so obvious of where I should go. 801 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,720 So I'm a little more open to the what is in the environment and 802 00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:30,000 how it's speaking to me that day. 803 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,560 And I think us as coaches can get stuck in those deep 804 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,920 attractor wells. They just do the same thing over 805 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,080 and over and over and they get deeper and deeper and deeper. 806 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,440 First, like being open to Doctor Gallo, what he's doing, where 807 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,080 can I take that? How could I borrow that? 808 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,000 What could that potentially do for me? 809 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,600 How could that work on the lead? Like how could that work on the 810 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,760 quote UN quote, arm action or the mechanics or whatever it may 811 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,160 be? I'm sorry, I don't know. 812 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,880 That kind of sparked something and it's same same for coaching 813 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,640 as it is our players. When we explore like, we'll be 814 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,600 able to be a little more creative, innovative, and may 815 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,000 find something that we otherwise would not have found, right? 816 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,920 Well and two off of that, one of the one of the things that came 817 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,800 up in the SMSC with Stu Mcmillan's talk was asking the 818 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,920 what if question. So for example, you know going 819 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,040 back to like what you talked about Tanner, the constraint LED 820 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,240 approach. So based upon what I understand 821 00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:25,480 about the constraint LED approach is if if we manipulate 822 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,240 A constraint within the system, so it can be anything that you 823 00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:32,760 talked about due to the Organism, the environment or the 824 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:38,440 task, it's going to affect how the athlete moves, it's going to 825 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,240 affect their mechanics or how they express their movement. 826 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,440 So I I I tend to think of it this way. 827 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,920 I ask what if, what if we tried, if we manipulated, say for 828 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:54,280 example, like I'm just going to keep using this for right now 829 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,800 for, for ease of use is you know that that one where we put the 830 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,880 ball on the ground, we slide up to it, grab and pick it and like 831 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,520 turn and throw. OK, what? 832 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,080 How is that influencing the movement? 833 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,680 And then what if I manipulated that a little bit? 834 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,640 I changed either the speed that they come in to come pick up the 835 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,080 ball or if I change the the angle that they come in like how 836 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,280 does that then begin to shift and alter their movement. 837 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,520 And then if you begin to think about it like OK, what ways 838 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,600 would I might be more beneficial for them to move? 839 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,960 OK, so now this, this, this segues nicely into bio 840 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,520 mechanics. Like for me how I begin to think 841 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,560 about this and I was talking with ASCII recently and he was 842 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,200 challenging me on this, which I think is good. 843 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,520 When we begin to think about bio mechanics, the way that I think 844 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,760 about is that there are bio mechanics help us with our 845 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,200 search process for we might not know what the perfect bio 846 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,840 mechanics are for an athlete, but if we're struggling and 847 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,560 they're struggling to find it, I can maybe I have an idea of like 848 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,280 where to begin to educate their search. 849 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,960 I don't know where along this, this continuum towards like you 850 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,960 could say this biomechanical ideal because in my mind you 851 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,000 could maybe it is the ideal for them. 852 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,560 Maybe it's actually further beyond the ideal and maybe it's 853 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,080 actually short of it. And so I don't know where that 854 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,440 that is but I have, I have a space to you know you need a you 855 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,840 need a if you are trying to go someplace. 856 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,400 Meaning we're trying to help the athlete find a more functional 857 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:26,600 fit to the environment and have more functional solutions so 858 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,320 they perform better. OK, well that to me is like 859 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,120 having a destination. OK. 860 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,520 So if I'm trying to get to a place I need to have an idea of 861 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:41,480 like what direction to go. So to me, I use biomechanical, 862 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,120 my biomechanical understanding of things to help direct where 863 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,160 we're going to search and the direction that we're going to 864 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:49,720 move. But it doesn't mean that we have 865 00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:51,400 to get to this destination. Why? 866 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,800 Because what if we find a better place to be that's a better 867 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,000 destination for the athlete along the journey. 868 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,360 And so for me, that's that's how I begin to think about bio 869 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,520 mechanics and how we're doing this exploration of OK, I think 870 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:09,040 I I want to see, OK, if I manipulate this or I change the 871 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:14,320 task up and I follow this principle, how their movement is 872 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,040 going to change and then does that actually manifest in 873 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,440 something that's more functional where they actually have more 874 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,000 success? Because to me, when I'm doing my 875 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,080 exploration, the way that I think about it is I'm trying to 876 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,480 put my back pocket, what is working better for the athlete, 877 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,960 what is trending in a more functional direction. 878 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,840 I'm going to put those things in my back pocket and then once we 879 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,800 have kind of we hit our we people who are more interested 880 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,760 on this you can watch we have a different episode up 881 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,280 specifically on exploration. We're kind of go into this more 882 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:47,800 but I'm going to what we we we hit this certain point of the 883 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,840 most that we're benefit that we're going to get out of 884 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,640 exploring and trying wacky stuff or like really trying to push 885 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,680 our edge because then everything starts to like our performance 886 00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,920 starts to decline heavily. So what I found is OK you you 887 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,080 start to notice for that decline then you stop and then you go 888 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,280 back to those things that you put in your back pocket of like 889 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,320 hey I had more success doing stuff like this. 890 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,360 Let's explore that and hone in on trying to get more 891 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:16,400 consistency of results and then you begin to take those things 892 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,720 and move towards more functional solutions and more consistent 893 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:28,640 results or more consistent. I think the results is is a good 894 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:29,920 enough word for for this right now. 895 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:35,000 So anyways to me that's kind of the my, my thought process on 896 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:42,960 like how to successfully use exploration to get the most out 897 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,880 of it. Because otherwise I think you 898 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,840 know people's knock on exploration is like OK, they're 899 00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:53,960 doing all this this stuff. But how is it translating to I 900 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:59,120 don't see how this translates to to to a guy being a better 901 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:04,280 pitcher for example. And so to me that's this is how 902 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:09,000 you do it, that you keep things focused on what's the main goal 903 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,840 that we're we're here to do as far as training is, is to get 904 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,120 the person to be a better pitcher and so making sure that 905 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,120 your exploration actually achieves that goal. 906 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,160 And I think like just when, when and how much you explore too. 907 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,000 As always, I think we talked about that a little bit. 908 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,160 But like I think that's always important conversation, like you 909 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:33,200 need to know when you got to be there too and how much you're 910 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:38,160 willing to explore first, try to get him a little bit closer to 911 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,760 that. But Tanner something I want to 912 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,840 throw back to you since I mean Gary you brought up kind of the 913 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,440 what if and especially like what if I do this and it kind of 914 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,480 brings me and I think you kind of were were asking that 915 00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:49,960 question. I'm assuming like what if we 916 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:54,400 added a batter in and I think that that too. 917 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,840 And let me talk about exploration. 918 00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,360 Do you think when you you kind of add that constraint of the 919 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:04,200 batter in because I see it in, in two ways, I'm probably lean 920 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:05,840 more towards the way you think about it. 921 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,480 But what if you add a batter in there and how that's going to 922 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,320 influence the movement? And is it I think people may 923 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,680 think like, oh, that's going to restrict them too much like when 924 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,080 when they're going and working on anything basically like, all 925 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,480 right, we're trying to throw as hard as we can, you got a batter 926 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:23,280 in there. Do you think that limits them 927 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,080 too much or that or does that make it more meaningful and 928 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,840 you're still can explore with the batter in there or do you 929 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,360 feel like you got to take all exploration out completely if 930 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,360 you had a batter in there or catch her in a little bit of 931 00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,560 consequence? If that question makes sense? 932 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,960 Because I think that's an extremely important point is 933 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,280 like, can you still explore as we ramp up this 934 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,800 representativeness, I guess is the way to put that. 935 00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:50,720 Yeah, I mean, I think you definitely can explore, but I 936 00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:54,520 think the bandwidth is lessened like there's less room to 937 00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,720 explore. It's it's kind of like, you 938 00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:00,280 know, squatting, doing a barbell squat in your warm up, you can 939 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,120 explore quite a bit. But when you start to get to 940 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,840 8090 to 100%, there's a lot less room for exploration that's 941 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:12,760 actually going to work. So I think, I think you can 942 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:19,640 explore and for for one kid that we have, he is 15 top to 86 943 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:24,440 which is incredible. But he was struggling to throw 944 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:30,760 strikes and his velocity was it fluctuated quite a bit, like he 945 00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:35,880 was sometimes 80 sometimes 83. He got up to 86 and I started 946 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:40,400 looking at how he was moving and he strided a little crossbody, 947 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,200 which I never I don't really have too much of an issue with. 948 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,960 But then his front leg was just, it just wasn't stable. 949 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,720 Like he was releasing some like differently, a little bit like 950 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:52,840 every pitch. I got some videos and it's like, 951 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,200 OK, there, there's nothing really consistent. 952 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,160 Not that it has to be the exact same every time, but I think 953 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:03,360 there was too much variance for him to be able to functionally 954 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,480 pitch. And So what we're starting to do 955 00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,640 now is experimenting with landing spots. 956 00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,480 So I said you can try landing more closed or you can try 957 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,920 landing more open. And I I said I think landing 958 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:23,000 somewhere a little bit more open is going to help you out because 959 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:28,920 of when you land your whole front leg bows out to that side 960 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,960 to try and allow you to rotate and throw the ball. 961 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,360 Sometimes you rotate recently, Sometimes you don't rotate 962 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:36,920 really as much as you probably need. 963 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,280 So it's affecting how you release the ball, which then is 964 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,880 going to affect where it goes, how hard you throw it. 965 00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,760 So we do it in plyos, we do it in Med balls, and now we're 966 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,440 doing it on the mound with hitters in there. 967 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,280 It's like, hey, can you open or can you stride a little bit more 968 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,520 open? If that doesn't work, maybe go a 969 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,680 little more closed off, like figure out what's going to work 970 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,200 for you. And this was the first week that 971 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,400 we did it on the mound because testing was last week. 972 00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:08,280 So we've been doing it in plows and Med balls second-half of 973 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:09,960 last week and we did it yesterday with them. 974 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:15,480 And it's like, OK, your velocity was pretty much in the same area 975 00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,400 the whole time. And it looked like you were 976 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,240 throwing some more strikes and it looked like your front leg 977 00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:25,320 was a little bit more stable. So I think he was able to 978 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,760 explore to find something functional. 979 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,640 And then now he's like Garrett said, like he's he's honing in 980 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,600 on it, like he's getting better at it, be more functional. 981 00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,880 Did he get up to 86 again? No. 982 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,080 But he also wasn't feeling that great and was sitting 83. 983 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,240 So I would call that a good day. Throwing some more strikes, a 984 00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:48,320 little bit more stable just looks more comfortable. 985 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:54,280 So I would say All in all, I think you can explore, but not 986 00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:58,640 as much of A bandwidth as a more general activity. 987 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,800 Does that make sense? Yeah, no, for sure. 988 00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,840 And I think I think too you can explore in different in 989 00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,840 different ways. I guess something I've been kind 990 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:09,680 of thinking about, especially as you kind of make it more 991 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,560 representative is like what are we exploring too, right. 992 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,280 Like I think there are definitely things because I 993 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,480 think a lot of times again I guess we're, we're slant, we're 994 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,560 slanting it towards bio mechanics here for a second. 995 00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,680 But like I think we get stuck on the bio mechanics, right. 996 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,160 But you can, you could start exploring like different 997 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:27,080 thoughts. You could potentially go into 998 00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:29,200 the pitch like what's my intention going into this? 999 00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,880 You could play with that or there or you could feel like, 1000 00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,960 oh, why don't, why don't you set up this way or that way or this 1001 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,040 speed or that speed and different variations of those. 1002 00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,320 And there's still room to kind of explore and play a little 1003 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,200 bit, even with it's a little High Representative. 1004 00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,920 At least that's something something I've been kind of kind 1005 00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,040 of dwelling on. It's like where where does the 1006 00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,160 exploration live if we want to make it more representative? 1007 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:57,080 Originally in my mind, and this was a flawed flawed view with 1008 00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,600 kind of like you ramp up exploration you ramp down 1009 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,600 representativeness. But that's not necessarily the 1010 00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,280 case where we can keep representative up, but we can 1011 00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,440 keep exploration up too. It may look a little different 1012 00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,680 like obviously it it you'd probably get a little dangerous 1013 00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:14,040 and parents may stop bringing it. 1014 00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:16,680 If you like are letting this guy like try every different kind of 1015 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,080 move in the book while there's a batter down there like that's 1016 00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:20,640 probably not where you want to go. 1017 00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:25,120 But I I'm always intrigued by that thought, and I think it's 1018 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,440 not as easy to like, OK, how do we keep exploration kind of high 1019 00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:31,800 while we're keeping representative kind of, 1020 00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,040 especially in the pitching space? 1021 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,040 This is inherent risk, right? You stick a batter down there, 1022 00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,360 right? Well, I also think like, you can 1023 00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:42,000 explore pitch selection, pitch location, right? 1024 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,120 So like, I do some classes that they're not necessarily part of. 1025 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:50,680 Like a development offseason program is just like a one time 1026 00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,200 sign up. I might get two kids, I might 1027 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,240 get six or seven. But for those classes, we don't 1028 00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:59,680 usually have catchers or live humans. 1029 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:03,320 So something that I've done recently is with our plastic 1030 00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,080 dummy hitters. I'll either have them crowd the 1031 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:09,320 plate or go way off the plate. I'm like, OK, we're going to do 1032 00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:13,080 the rolling counts based on where he is in the box. 1033 00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,760 Where do you think your best option to throw it is? 1034 00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,640 And some of them have no idea. Some of them are like, well, 1035 00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:22,800 he's crowding the plate, Probably want to go inside. 1036 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,960 Perfect. If you can get it inside, it's a 1037 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:27,480 strike. If you leave it down the middle 1038 00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,320 or outside, we're going to call it a single. 1039 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,720 And it's like, oh, OK, now they have to figure out how they can 1040 00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:36,360 throw pitches based on where the hitter is. 1041 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,520 As soon as they're done with that batter, I change something 1042 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,280 about it. Maybe I go from lefty to righty. 1043 00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,840 Maybe I go crowding the plate, back them off. 1044 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:49,440 Maybe I just go normal position, see what they do, But it is 1045 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,840 interesting to see them know that, OK, this guy can't hit an 1046 00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,160 outside pitch. How am I going to get it over 1047 00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:57,440 there? Do they freeze? 1048 00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,440 Do they change their direction completely to get it over there? 1049 00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,120 Or are they able to handle it no problem. 1050 00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,360 And it's kind of fun to to watch them explore. 1051 00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:12,200 And usually the kids that actually change something where 1052 00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,840 they're not necessarily frozen, but they're moving a little bit 1053 00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,280 differently, they're able to get it there, which is, I think I 1054 00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:20,240 find it interesting. It's like, oh, their direction 1055 00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,120 changed. Oh, they're actually falling off 1056 00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,840 more to the side after they throw it, but they're actually 1057 00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,600 throwing it where they want to. So it's just just interesting. 1058 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:33,000 When they get out of that repetition, same thing over and 1059 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:34,720 over again. It's like, hey, figure out how 1060 00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,880 to get it outside. I don't care what it looks like, 1061 00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:39,560 batter's off the plate. You're going to have to throw it 1062 00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,120 outside. Yeah. 1063 00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,760 And and you'll see what you may actually see within the game 1064 00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,240 setting too, which I think is, is extremely important like 1065 00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,120 versus living within the like we're just pumping the ball into 1066 00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,560 the nine pocket over and over and over with no, no change of 1067 00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:57,400 intentions or like what you're actually trying to do, pitch the 1068 00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:59,280 pitch. So actually, I, I, I, I really 1069 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,000 like that idea because I'm sure you do see, if you watch it, 1070 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,720 like you're going to see if you're going inside, outside or 1071 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:09,320 you put a righty in versus a lefty in there or just like you 1072 00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,720 change the count on them, you put them behind or up in the 1073 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,760 count, whatever, like the movement's going to be 1074 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,760 influenced by those. And I don't think that's talked 1075 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,560 about because, I mean, to me, that's where the skill component 1076 00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,600 lives within this whole thing. Because like throwing harder is 1077 00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,720 going to help you get out. And making those changes does a 1078 00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,480 lot for you as far as what you could potentially select. 1079 00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:30,200 And it may open some things up for you. 1080 00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:35,040 But then placing it within context is like everything 1081 00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,920 because it is going to be influenced by all those 1082 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:39,360 constraints we kind of talked about. 1083 00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:42,040 So I think that's cool that in that facility setting, you're 1084 00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,040 kind of already adding that in since you're going to, it's 1085 00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,920 going to expose them to a lot more and you're going to see a 1086 00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,920 lot more to actually be a good pitching coach versus a good 1087 00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,600 just throwing coach, which I think is a big difference. 1088 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,880 Yeah, and and most of the time it's just me just cuddle, 1089 00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:57,640 letting them figure it out for the most part. 1090 00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,520 And if a kid absolutely cannot figure it out, then I'll pull 1091 00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,680 them aside and I'll ask them questions and we'll have that 1092 00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,240 conversation and then we'll go on to like, hey, try it, try 1093 00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:08,240 doing this or try doing that. What are you seeing? 1094 00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:10,920 What do you feel? Because some kids will move to 1095 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:13,840 the complete other side of the rubber, Like if they're not 1096 00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,680 comfortable, they're just going to move completely away and try 1097 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,800 to hit, hit their spots. Now they're able to which it's 1098 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,360 it's functional, they move to the other side, That's fine. 1099 00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,080 I have no problem with it. But it's you can easily see what 1100 00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:32,160 causes anxiety and what doesn't. Yeah, I do think it's 1101 00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,120 interesting though. Just set and I think it's it's 1102 00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,680 kind of cool if that's what some of your guys are doing, even if 1103 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:39,400 they're just sliding to the other side of the Rover since 1104 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:40,680 they're they're searching, right. 1105 00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,000 And I think that's that's extremely important. 1106 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,680 They're searching for and you're allowing exploration. 1107 00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:49,600 Like, even if it's not like what potentially is the most 1108 00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:51,720 functional within a game setting, at least they're 1109 00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:55,440 starting that process of searching for something that 1110 00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,720 will help them get to where they're they're trying to go, 1111 00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,920 and if even if that's where they start, it's something. 1112 01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,040 Yeah. And honestly, I don't really 1113 01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,960 have an issue with guys switching sides of the rubber 1114 01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,080 depending on who they're facing. Like. 1115 01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,640 I mean, I'm sure we've all seen that Paul Skeens clip. 1116 01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:13,760 He changes side of the rubber depending on, you know, whether 1117 01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,080 he's facing a lefty or righty. And I think more guys should 1118 01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:20,000 probably do that because your stuff is going to play different 1119 01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,840 because that's almost a whole foot that you're changing your 1120 01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,560 release point, how it's going to break, how it's going to come 1121 01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,520 out of your hand, where you're striding. 1122 01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,920 I think that could be pretty valuable for a lot of guys. 1123 01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:33,600 They just have to be willing to explore it. 1124 01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,360 And with the kids that have done it, it's more like, I don't want 1125 01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,240 to hit the guy, so I want to move to the other side. 1126 01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,280 Yeah, well, cool, like you're throwing it where you want to. 1127 01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:42,720 You should probably keep doing that. 1128 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:45,000 Yeah, yeah. No, that's a good point. 1129 01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,680 And I think those are stuff that's probably not explored as 1130 01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:49,480 much as it could potentially be in pitching. 1131 01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,160 I mean for a host of reasons. But I think one, it's like how 1132 01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:54,720 do you find if it's functional too. 1133 01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:58,200 I think that's that's a tough question to really answer 1134 01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,680 without being exposed to representative problems is if 1135 01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,600 you're just switching side to side in bullpen settings and it 1136 01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,360 feels good or like you're on left ear righty, like, oh, I 1137 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,800 think this would work better to a left ear versus right ear. 1138 01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,760 Coach told you like, it's great, but how do we actually know 1139 01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:17,400 without those slices of the game where we're getting exposed to 1140 01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,960 if it actually is better versus about it or not better versus 1141 01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,160 about it, right? And are we getting feedback from 1142 01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:25,160 them? Are they are they in there? 1143 01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,720 How they're interacting with us, telling us, which I think is a 1144 01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:30,720 huge part of the like. Why representative this is 1145 01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,320 extremely important, like how do we know if it's working right 1146 01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:35,160 like. Otherwise you're going to find 1147 01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,280 out in the game like that's how you like. 1148 01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:41,080 You're going to find out, oh, this don't work and that's and 1149 01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:44,040 then maybe won't get to pitch again for, you know, for for a 1150 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,280 little bit. And that's that's where I think 1151 01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:50,720 that to your point, Baker of like, why it's so important to 1152 01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:55,800 to have representative practice sessions so that you're not 1153 01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,200 finding out in the game when it matters. 1154 01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,360 You're finding out beforehand so that when you get into the game 1155 01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:05,720 you can just fall back on what you know works that you have 1156 01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,200 experience working to. To go off of what you were also 1157 01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,640 saying. Baker of how how do you how do I 1158 01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:15,360 deal with the problem of keeping representativeness high as well 1159 01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,160 as exploration within a practice setting? 1160 01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:21,720 I I would. Here's how I've dealt with the 1161 01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:26,200 issue of worried about a hitter getting hit that stand in. 1162 01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,240 I just think that if you give the guy a glove, if the ball 1163 01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,920 comes at, you just catch it like all these guys, right? 1164 01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,320 Who who if you're if you're. We're not talking about little 1165 01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:38,280 kids, right? Who? 1166 01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:40,560 You know, it's iffy whether or not they can catch the ball. 1167 01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:42,760 But once you get to a certain level, everybody can catch a 1168 01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:44,960 ball if it's thrown at them. So if you're looking at the 1169 01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,240 ball, which I hope you know, if you're standing hitter, you're 1170 01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,640 looking at the pitcher in the ball and seeing where it's 1171 01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:51,240 going. You know, if you feel 1172 01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:52,720 uncomfortable, just catch the darn thing. 1173 01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,440 You know there's no. I will say that's that's harder 1174 01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:57,680 than said that because that's what I do. 1175 01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:02,120 I stand in a ton and like I wear a glove and I and to be fair 1176 01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,760 like I need to train myself as a hitter more and like that's one 1177 01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:08,320 thing that I've thought a ton is I'm I'm bailing so much it's 1178 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:09,760 bad. It's just like you throw a 1179 01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:12,720 breaker and I'm I'm I'm gone. Which is not giving a very 1180 01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,520 representative look whatsoever. And I have a glove on because 1181 01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,240 it's the the here's the issue they think of intentions right 1182 01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:21,240 intention shape action. When I'm thinking, oh shoot, 1183 01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,440 he's coming inside, like I need to be ready to catch it. 1184 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:27,200 Like I'm almost always going for the ball when it's not even 1185 01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,360 coming at me because my intentions I'm searching for 1186 01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,280 like I got to catch it, right? And then if I'm not and I'm 1187 01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:34,160 trying to give a super representative look like my 1188 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,360 glove stays here, like I'm almost never ready to actually 1189 01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:38,840 catch it. Like occasionally, like maybe 1190 01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:41,120 swat it from my head, but like I'll still get hit, you know, 1191 01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,880 that's where it's hard. That's where the gloves actually 1192 01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:46,240 like it is still a limitation, but I think it's the best 1193 01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,320 solution that I've seen too. I don't know if anybody else has 1194 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:49,560 any better, but it's hard. I. 1195 01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:52,640 Mean. I don't know real quick, Robert, 1196 01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,640 having having been at Missouri State standing in because that's 1197 01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,920 the closest I can get to the guys that you, that you're, you 1198 01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:05,480 know, standing in for, you know, at least for me, Honestly 1199 01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,240 though, I actually never had to catch a ball. 1200 01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:10,280 Nobody ever, like, got that close to me. 1201 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:13,760 I also just maybe it's partially because I was a catcher. 1202 01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:18,880 Like, I have to wait, usually fairly long before I can even 1203 01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:20,680 try to go catch a ball because like, I've caught 1204 01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:24,440 knuckleballers, dude, if you try to go out and stick a stick a 1205 01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,160 ball that's a knuckleball, you get. 1206 01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:30,240 I caught cast Crayolo and he was throwing just nasty knuckleballs 1207 01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,320 to me and I was really good at just going out there and 1208 01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,360 sticking it. Well, I didn't have any of my 1209 01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:35,960 gear on. I wasn't wearing a mask and I 1210 01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:38,000 went to go try to stick it and that sucker hit me right in the 1211 01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:39,880 face. So like, that taught me, like, 1212 01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:43,600 all right, you know, you got to, you kind of have to wait as long 1213 01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:46,800 as you can let that ball move and then go get it at the end. 1214 01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,680 So to me, that's that. Well, that was also too, right, 1215 01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:52,840 Being a hitter, if I want to give myself because this, this 1216 01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,760 to me is why I understood why I like Stanton and these guys get 1217 01:04:55,760 --> 01:05:00,160 hit in the face, is because they can't move if they move early, 1218 01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:01,720 right? A ball that comes at him and 1219 01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,000 it's going to be a sweeper like you're done. 1220 01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,880 You have to, you have to stay in there as long as you can and 1221 01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,640 move at the last second. So to me, that's what, like, 1222 01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:13,520 that's why it's so hard to come back after getting hit in the 1223 01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:16,200 face with a ball. That hard is because you need to 1224 01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,120 then retrain yourself not to flinch, not to move to. 1225 01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:23,320 Because to me, that was how I gave myself a chance to hit the 1226 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:25,680 the nasty breaking ball slider or whatever is. 1227 01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:30,040 I'm just, I'm not going to move and I'm going to stay in on this 1228 01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,520 and trust that this ball is going to, you know, it's going 1229 01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:34,440 to come back in or whatever, 'cause that was the only thing 1230 01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:36,880 that gave me a chance on those type of breaking balls. 1231 01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:41,040 So to me that's where it is to your point of like it is 1232 01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:44,800 somewhat of your natural reactions like you have to kind 1233 01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,360 of train some of that. So anyways, Robert, you were 1234 01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:51,560 going to say? Yeah, I basically the same 1235 01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:54,960 variation of what you and both both Garretts have said. 1236 01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,760 So yeah, like intention shapes action. 1237 01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:02,800 So like if if you anticipate A fastball coming in and like out 1238 01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,800 of the hand it looks like it's a fastball but it ends up being a 1239 01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:09,000 well tunneled slider, you know, then you you're going to catch 1240 01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:12,040 the ball before it breaks and then it does not become, you 1241 01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,920 know, as representative. And that's kind of like a poor 1242 01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,440 feedback system for for the pitch event, because then 1243 01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,640 they'll be like, oh, you know, it's going to hit the batter. 1244 01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,720 Well, I mean I think the hardest pitch, right, is that because 1245 01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:26,240 you're usually looking when he gives like fastball slider or 1246 01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:30,480 whatever, but it's that backup slider, the bullet slider is the 1247 01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:33,440 one that's going to, it's going to be a little bit tough. 1248 01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,640 But I mean I think you know it's. 1249 01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,440 I don't know it's I think it's way different if you're standing 1250 01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,240 in you know, for Diaz than it is. 1251 01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:44,360 I mean yeah, I stood in a for younger and younger was up 1252 01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:47,920 tonight like 9495, you know, with a good slider. 1253 01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,480 But I don't think, you know, I don't know. 1254 01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:51,960 You know it's it's different, right. 1255 01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,520 Like he had good control. It's different than like a young 1256 01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:58,200 Dominican kid who's still, you know, is 18 and trying to get a 1257 01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,800 feel for the zone. Whereas like when I when I met 1258 01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,000 younger, he was like a junior. So like there's there's 1259 01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:05,760 something different about that. So I get it. 1260 01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:08,800 It's it's not easy. But I think for me it's at 1261 01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:10,880 least, you know you can put a catcher's mask on. 1262 01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,360 I don't know. You know, like there's there's, 1263 01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:18,280 I think, I think we shouldn't let the challenge of the ideal 1264 01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:21,760 get in the way of trying to find creative ways to make the ideal 1265 01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:23,000 work. Yeah, I think. 1266 01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,880 I think maybe this is where like calling myself out like as as a 1267 01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,720 pitching coach and maybe maybe this is an idea all pitching 1268 01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:31,360 coaches should be doing. It's like we maybe we should be 1269 01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,840 training as hitters a little bit to be able to give a little bit 1270 01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:37,360 more representative slices. And I think that's something 1271 01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:41,080 when seeing Sean and Tyler do their in person at the SMSC, 1272 01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:44,440 like they are trying to give representative looks to the 1273 01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:46,160 football players. And I'm like, I can't 1274 01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:48,240 necessarily give a representative look to a single 1275 01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,240 pitcher. I will get my doors blown off. 1276 01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,040 You throw a breaker, I'm out-of-the-box like that, right? 1277 01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:59,640 Like, so it's like training like a hitter may actually be the 1278 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,320 best thing I could do as a as a pitching coach. 1279 01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:04,360 I should see more pitchers. Maybe I should be going off a 1280 01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:05,240 machine. Whatever. 1281 01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:07,680 Again, how much time do I have? I don't know if I have that much 1282 01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:11,120 time, but, like, there should probably be some investment in 1283 01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:13,280 that as far as, like, my coach growth, right. 1284 01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,880 And that's something I've been thinking about this offseason, 1285 01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:18,560 is how I could potentially do a little more of that. 1286 01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:22,560 Just because, again, like, I'm not giving as representative of 1287 01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:26,240 a look and like, they might find functional solutions against me 1288 01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:28,479 that they thought it was nasty. And then you actually put 1289 01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:30,479 somebody who can track the ball. Again, like Gary, you were 1290 01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:32,319 actually a hitter. So, like, you're probably a 1291 01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:33,439 little bit better than I am, right? 1292 01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,120 So just something I've been dwelling on for us pitching 1293 01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:41,080 coaches. But on that point, what I've 1294 01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:45,600 recognized right is, for me, I've had to learn how to pitch, 1295 01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:47,080 right. If I want to help hitters, I 1296 01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:50,760 have to learn how to pitch. And I think you know you brought 1297 01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:54,880 it brought it up like if we begin to you know study our 1298 01:08:54,880 --> 01:09:00,439 opponent begin to inhabit the life that they that they live. 1299 01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:02,319 All of a sudden now we have more insights. 1300 01:09:02,399 --> 01:09:06,160 Because to me I think it's fun as as a more of a hitting guy to 1301 01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:10,000 go to like a pitching conference and then just listen to how how 1302 01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:11,680 they talk about how to get hitters out. 1303 01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:15,399 I mean they're basically giving giving you their playbook like 1304 01:09:15,399 --> 01:09:18,960 hey we want to go you know how we you know how our school 1305 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,200 thinks about pitching is attack that low and away corner. 1306 01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:24,560 We want to pitch guys away low and away. 1307 01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:26,319 You know to get ground balls whatever. 1308 01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:28,760 And you're like OK so then we're going to get good at hitting 1309 01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:32,200 lone away you know it or you know I I, I heard one big league 1310 01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:35,600 coach talk about like yeah, we we we just told guys to throw it 1311 01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:37,399 down the middle. Now there's a reason for that. 1312 01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:41,160 But I was just like you know because he was saying well 1313 01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:46,000 because you know only 11% of those balls down the middle end 1314 01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,279 up as hits. And I was like, yeah, but how 1315 01:09:48,279 --> 01:09:51,399 much of the damage also comes from that that percentage? 1316 01:09:51,399 --> 01:09:55,720 Like I to me that doesn't eventually, unless your guy that 1317 01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,560 you're telling this to all has a ton of movement to their pitch. 1318 01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:02,160 Always, then yeah, that makes a ton of sense for that guy that 1319 01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:05,520 he should just focus on throw it right down the middle and let 1320 01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:08,400 the ball move. But if you're not a guy, you 1321 01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:11,840 know your guy, you're a guy that has maybe more more ride to your 1322 01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:13,320 ball. Maybe there's some some level 1323 01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:15,680 into that. But at the same point still like 1324 01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:18,360 if your ball doesn't have a ton of movement or your movement is 1325 01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:19,960 fairly average to the league standard. 1326 01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:22,800 Like I think if you leave that ball middle middle like it's 1327 01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:25,720 going to get crushed or like yeah, you might get away with it 1328 01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:29,280 the majority of the time. But when when those small 1329 01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:31,480 moments come up that low percentage because I mean what's 1330 01:10:31,480 --> 01:10:33,600 the percentage of that? Robert, you might know this. 1331 01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:38,520 What's the percentage of all pitches that end up as runs you 1332 01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:42,080 know that produce runs It's it's a very small percentage of the 1333 01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,800 pitches. So like to say that like you can 1334 01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,240 just throw it down the middle because like only a small at a 1335 01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:48,280 small time you're going to get burned. 1336 01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:51,560 Well yeah but those are the only times that matter you know so I 1337 01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:56,560 I to me that just doesn't make any sense to to say that because 1338 01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,080 what it what are what are hitters if you if you're on the 1339 01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:01,880 pitching side like what are what are hitters focused on a ton now 1340 01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:06,400 swing decisions that's and and what is their what are their 1341 01:11:06,440 --> 01:11:09,360 their focus when it comes to swing decision it is mostly 1342 01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:13,720 looking middle So something doesn't add up here when both 1343 01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,360 sides are trying to do the same thing right back into the back 1344 01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:19,840 in the day when hitting coaches were telling hitters to hit 1345 01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:22,960 ground balls and pitching coaches were telling pitchers to 1346 01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:25,280 try to get ground balls. Something's not right here. 1347 01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:27,960 If we're both trying to do the same thing like this don't make 1348 01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:30,800 any sense to me like because one like we should be trying to beat 1349 01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:35,120 the other person So if the goal is to is to for in the pitcher's 1350 01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:38,840 mind to limit fly balls then I would think that the offense 1351 01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:42,400 should try to hit fly balls. I don't know, but you know, So 1352 01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:46,240 anyways, that's that's kind of my my thing here of like when 1353 01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:50,320 you're developing your pitching strategy, it should counter what 1354 01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,880 the offense is trying to do. It should not be trying to do 1355 01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:54,480 the exact same thing and vice versa. 1356 01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:56,840 So anyways, that's my little rant on that. 1357 01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,840 I guess Tanner I want to ask you this as I mean I've, I have my 1358 01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:04,680 own thoughts, but I actually have another pitching guy on the 1359 01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:08,080 on the call. Finally like as far as that goes 1360 01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,320 because a lot of times we're limited to to not having batters 1361 01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:15,280 that swing, even if they're just standing in just do the space or 1362 01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:18,040 just do it do them a myriad of things or you just don't have a 1363 01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:20,760 hitter. How do you how do you help your 1364 01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:26,520 guys necessarily train that aspect of it where like you're 1365 01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:29,920 still trying to get an out and they're still like the batter 1366 01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:33,120 could be behaving in different ways based on how you just 1367 01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:34,960 pitch. So if you're doing like a like 1368 01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:38,160 potentially A simulated count or whatever, since if it's in a a 1369 01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:42,280 non representative slice and we don't have people swinging, how 1370 01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:46,560 can you potentially continue to still work some of those things 1371 01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:48,960 even without that? Because I mean I run into that 1372 01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:51,280 all the time and that's where I've been trying to think on 1373 01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:55,440 ways to do it a little better, even if I have the constraint of 1374 01:12:55,440 --> 01:12:57,480 that since that's an excuse like oh, I just didn't have a hitter. 1375 01:12:57,480 --> 01:13:01,040 But I still think there's got to be better ways to get it done. 1376 01:13:02,440 --> 01:13:05,560 Yeah, I mean I probably don't have the greatest answer for you 1377 01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:09,200 just because like at Match right now we are making it pretty 1378 01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:15,160 representative. But I will say like if if we 1379 01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:17,840 don't, some of the things that I've been doing, especially with 1380 01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:22,600 those those one time like drop in classes that we do like we'll 1381 01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:26,200 play like Pig or something with the nine pocket or like a point 1382 01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:30,320 system game. And so like pretty much 1383 01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:33,480 everybody can throw it either up in the nine pocket or like in 1384 01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:35,720 the middle. So then what they'll start doing 1385 01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,080 is they'll start calling like, oh, you got to hit the left 1386 01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:41,080 black frame. So they're trying to live on the 1387 01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:43,440 edges. Or if we have the standing dummy 1388 01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:46,880 hitter and it has like an orange string hanging from the arm, so 1389 01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:48,240 they'll try to hit that orange string. 1390 01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,560 And so for as pitching coaches, we like it because how many 1391 01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:54,440 hitters actually like hitting the inside pitch? 1392 01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:57,320 Not many. They don't like hitting it. 1393 01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:01,160 So if they're going to continue to try to hit that orange 1394 01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:05,400 string, well, now they have more practice throwing it inside. 1395 01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,520 So I haven't really been directing, I guess, their 1396 01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:12,920 attention to a hitter when there isn't one or trying to do it 1397 01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,880 because most of the kids I'm working with just don't have the 1398 01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,240 mental capabilities to try and think through that yet. 1399 01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:22,400 Because they're they can be 9:10, 11-12 years old. 1400 01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,240 And it's like, how deep do I need to go into this? 1401 01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:29,800 Or do we just need to just try and get better at hitting 1402 01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:34,840 targets in general? How can we make that a game now 1403 01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:39,800 for older guys, so guys that may be a little more skilled, it's 1404 01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:44,240 like, OK, like if we have Trackman on and we have we're 1405 01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:47,160 throwing a bullpen to a catcher with a dummy hitter, it's like, 1406 01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:50,040 OK, this pitch is moving in this way. 1407 01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:54,600 You probably want to avoid throwing it in these locations. 1408 01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:58,920 So like that's kind of how I would go that way. 1409 01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:02,320 It's like OK you've you've got a a righty in and you're it's a 1410 01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:05,640 lefty on the mound and your cutter is 90 to 92. 1411 01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:09,920 You probably want to live inside with that because if you leave 1412 01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:15,040 it out over the plate, it's base of the MLB average, hitting 92 1413 01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:17,000 isn't a big problem and it's going to go right into the 1414 01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,200 barrel. You probably want to live glove 1415 01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:22,200 side with that pitch, just based on the profile. 1416 01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,800 If it's got good carry, hey, it's probably going to be more 1417 01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,920 effective up in the zone. So let's try and figure out how 1418 01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:31,400 we can set that pitch up. And then we practice setting it 1419 01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:35,360 up, go to live ABS when it's appropriate, and then we try it 1420 01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:37,840 there and then it's like, OK, did that work? 1421 01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:40,560 OK? If not, why didn't it work? 1422 01:15:41,440 --> 01:15:45,320 OK, if it did work, was it because of how you actually set 1423 01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:49,520 it up, or did you miss some spots and that somehow set it up 1424 01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:51,880 just as well? Or like was the hitter you were 1425 01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:56,000 facing just not to your skill level by trying to figure out 1426 01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,920 those things. So I don't know if I can give 1427 01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:02,920 you a a great answer just because like I said like we're 1428 01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:06,160 doing pretty good job of getting hitters in there and and 1429 01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:08,480 catchers so. Yeah. 1430 01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:10,080 No, no, that that definitely makes a lot of sense. 1431 01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:12,640 And even even that last point, it's kind of like, you know, 1432 01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,440 it's like building the general capability of throwing it to 1433 01:16:15,440 --> 01:16:19,240 regions that you should potentially work and then you go 1434 01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:21,920 battle test them within a representative slice. 1435 01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:24,000 I think that's kind of kind of what you're getting at, which I 1436 01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:25,640 think I think makes a lot of sense to me. 1437 01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:29,040 And I guess I I I'd open this up to everybody. 1438 01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:31,360 So I mean this, and I could be completely wrong in this, but 1439 01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,560 something I've I've thought about almost to challenge the 1440 01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:41,360 idea of like your ten 1112 year olds and not necessarily adding 1441 01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:43,360 any form of context and just trying to hit a target. 1442 01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,200 Like I've always wondered and I'll have an answer. 1443 01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:48,920 I could be completely off on this and it's just me wondering 1444 01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:50,680 because I'm not currently working with that age group. 1445 01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,720 So like I could be completely off base on this. 1446 01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:58,680 But training at that age, if they were to only if they're on 1447 01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:02,920 the mound and they only were to throw pitches as if there was a 1448 01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:06,320 quote, UN quote batter in there and the pitch is to get an out, 1449 01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:11,080 like would that help them as they continue to go up levels 1450 01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:13,800 transfer that quicker. That's just something I've I've 1451 01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:15,600 thought of. Again, like it was quick 1452 01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:16,840 thoughts since I'm not working with that. 1453 01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:19,720 But like imagine again, this is like the perfect setting and 1454 01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,800 maybe my son will go through this and he'll be my my dummy as 1455 01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,600 we as we grow up. But like if he's on the mound, 1456 01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,640 even if I don't have a catcher or a hitter. 1457 01:17:29,040 --> 01:17:32,440 But I say, all right, I want this fastball in a way that 1458 01:17:32,440 --> 01:17:34,920 you're going to try to get a rightie to ground out or I'm 1459 01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:37,720 going to, you're going to try to get him to swing and miss or get 1460 01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:40,880 the ball above his barrel. Or I want you to try to like get 1461 01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:43,760 the inside part of his bat in the zone on this pitch. 1462 01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:49,320 Like I always wondered if that's the only way they threw pitches. 1463 01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:52,560 If once again to game is that much easier, could be off on 1464 01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:53,480 that. And it may not work. 1465 01:17:53,480 --> 01:17:55,600 The intention may not be there and they might not be able to 1466 01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:58,600 control his pitches, maybe frustrate, I don't know, but I I 1467 01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:00,320 that's always something I was curious on. 1468 01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:04,400 But that's a long time scale project that I don't have to go 1469 01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:06,600 down, but I think there could be something there. 1470 01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:11,920 My initial thought is that if they're young, right, you know, 1471 01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:17,040 like with my kid, they don't. It's not going to work with 1472 01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:24,120 regards to if they don't have the experience, right? 1473 01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:26,120 So they need the experience in order for them to even 1474 01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:28,360 understand that context, right? So. 1475 01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:31,640 The. Experience of facing a hitter, 1476 01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:34,480 you know, and seeing those different things before you can 1477 01:18:34,480 --> 01:18:37,080 introduce that. So like, for example, I mean, 1478 01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:40,320 I've, I've taken stuff from, you know, what other people's 1479 01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:42,800 experience, right? Like driveline or Lance, you 1480 01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:45,160 know, talking about just trying to throw the ball hard. 1481 01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:47,920 Like that's the first one of just learning how to throw the 1482 01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:49,840 ball. And to me, it's not, I don't, I 1483 01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:53,320 don't use the word hard anymore. I say fast because if I say 1484 01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:57,080 hard, a guy's going to probably tense up more and if I want him 1485 01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:00,000 to throw fast, that's that means something different. 1486 01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:04,240 And so I I at least tell my kid to swing, either swing the bat 1487 01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:08,720 fast or to throw the ball fast, you know, And so that that to me 1488 01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:10,920 is just how I'm initially talking about. 1489 01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:12,800 And then maybe I might educate his attention. 1490 01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:17,080 So we have these I so actually, Tanner, this is another thing 1491 01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:19,360 that might be fun in your setting. 1492 01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:25,040 I got for my kid for his birthday to blow up, you know, 1493 01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:26,640 like punching or kicking bags or whatever. 1494 01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:28,680 So when you hit them, right, they come back up. 1495 01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:33,280 And So what, what made me think that I wanted to do get this for 1496 01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:37,520 him was we're outside playing and he there's like a sprinkler 1497 01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:39,920 hole or whatever. And he took the the plastic bat 1498 01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:41,920 that we had and and shoved it in there. 1499 01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:45,720 And then he had like a ball and he was trying to like just knock 1500 01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:47,920 it over. So we played this game of, like, 1501 01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:51,720 throwing it and trying to, like, knock this thing over and then 1502 01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:52,880 we'd have to go and set it back up. 1503 01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:55,400 I was like, well, what if I had a thing that just, like, popped 1504 01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:57,640 it back up? Because it became this game of, 1505 01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:00,720 at least for me, I throw the ball and if I miss it and I 1506 01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:02,680 don't actually hit the thing, I have to go run and get it. 1507 01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:05,120 So all of a sudden this becomes like, I was thinking about this 1508 01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:09,640 like a fun conditioning activity for pitchers of we have this 1509 01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:12,120 target, you throw the ball and you try to knock the target 1510 01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:13,600 over. Well, if you miss, you have to 1511 01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:16,480 go run and get the ball. And so you know in a way it 1512 01:20:16,480 --> 01:20:19,000 becomes this conditioning thing or or even too if you hit it and 1513 01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,160 the ball bounces off whatever, you got to go run and get it. 1514 01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:26,200 So now it becomes this, this game that becomes a form of 1515 01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:29,760 conditioning where the the further I throw it, the further 1516 01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:31,840 ball or the harder I throw it, the further ball is going to go. 1517 01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:34,960 So then I'm going to have to run further to go get it and then it 1518 01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:37,920 and then I pick it up and as soon as I can like I get set up 1519 01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:39,280 and I try to hit the target again. 1520 01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:42,160 So it was kind of fun because now all of a sudden there's 1521 01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:44,360 these different ranges. So if I don't throw it as hard 1522 01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:47,080 to try to knock it over, well then my next throw if I miss is 1523 01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:49,080 going to be closer so it's going to be easier. 1524 01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:53,400 So anyways I thought that was like you could come up with so 1525 01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:55,800 many different games though with this with this like thing that 1526 01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,120 you can hit and knock it over and it'll like bounce back up. 1527 01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:03,480 So that was at least my my initial thought going back to 1528 01:21:03,480 --> 01:21:06,280 what you were saying. Baker is like it comes back to 1529 01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:09,680 where are they skill wise like and then trying to educate their 1530 01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:14,280 intention or attention to meet the the meet the athlete where 1531 01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:17,320 they are. And so for me like sometimes 1532 01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:20,920 like because Ezra will throw to me and I'll hit off of him and 1533 01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:22,840 sometimes I have to tell him like hey buddy, you got to throw 1534 01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:25,800 it lower you know. So I'm educating his intention 1535 01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:31,040 there or you know I'll put the put that that knock up thing up 1536 01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,200 and it has like a little target. I'm like, hey buddy, try to 1537 01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:34,760 throw it right here. You know. 1538 01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:38,200 So sometimes it's it's it's those things of like, but I 1539 01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:40,080 don't always tell him that. Sometimes I'll just simply tell 1540 01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:43,320 him to throw it fast and just see like because maybe he's, 1541 01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:47,400 he's naturally attuned to a target and it's fine because 1542 01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:50,400 there's sometimes too, when I mean, how old's your son now, 1543 01:21:51,080 --> 01:21:52,760 Baker? He's like 1. 1544 01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:58,800 Yeah, 1515 months. 15 months. So you know, early on, it's just 1545 01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:01,640 right where where he's at. Hey, throw it right. 1546 01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:04,200 I say the same thing to OB. He's just like, throw the ball, 1547 01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:07,080 just just throw it. And obviously it's not. 1548 01:22:07,480 --> 01:22:10,400 Doesn't look like anything, but it, like with Ezra's, is really 1549 01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:12,240 interesting to see. Like at some point you're like, 1550 01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:16,640 oh man, that was actually pretty decent and it was like actually 1551 01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:18,480 at a target. I didn't even tell you to throw 1552 01:22:18,480 --> 01:22:22,960 it at a target, but it actually went towards either myself or, 1553 01:22:23,480 --> 01:22:25,800 you know, whatever. And you're just like, man. 1554 01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,760 So this is to me why I say like they naturally I think are going 1555 01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,160 to pick up on trying to throw to something specific. 1556 01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:34,040 It's just, it's just an affordance, right? 1557 01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:36,680 Like the ball of Ford's throwing at a person. 1558 01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:40,160 Partially because when you are throwing it or whatever modeling 1559 01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:43,720 it for them, you toss it to them like they naturally, you know, 1560 01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:46,480 see that this is how we want to interact or this is how I should 1561 01:22:46,480 --> 01:22:49,240 interact with this thing. So I think you only need to 1562 01:22:49,280 --> 01:22:53,640 educate their attention or intention when you see is 1563 01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:57,080 necessary. So that's my thought process 1564 01:22:57,080 --> 01:23:00,880 with that of like when they when do they get to that stage of OK 1565 01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,760 we can start they've had enough experience or they have enough 1566 01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:09,200 cognitive awareness that we can start to introduce this concept 1567 01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:11,960 to them. So that's my thought process of 1568 01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:18,360 of how to kind of scale it from a, you know, in terms of like 1569 01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:22,160 youth to to your you could say pro. 1570 01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:25,200 Yeah. And I and I guess like where my 1571 01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:30,000 thought was is the reason I would do that or the reason I 1572 01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:32,200 thought of it is because you're always keeping problem and 1573 01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:35,120 solution kind of coupled like like what's the actual problem 1574 01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:38,280 or what are we trying to solve in doing that every single time. 1575 01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:41,760 I just don't. In my brain it was like that 1576 01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:45,080 would always keep them directed there. 1577 01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:47,880 So once again, to game, it'd be harder to almost like pull them 1578 01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:51,040 away from that, where they're almost always searching for the 1579 01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:54,240 way to get it out versus just becoming a thrower, which is I 1580 01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:57,960 think the natural way that it's taught nowadays, where they just 1581 01:23:57,960 --> 01:24:01,040 will naturally kind of become a thrower verse, like always 1582 01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:03,360 trying to solve a problem with your pitch. 1583 01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,160 And I just wondered again, this is kind of like one of my 1584 01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:07,800 thoughts when I was like, how can I make the most creative 1585 01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:10,320 pitcher possible? Like as as far as the 1586 01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:12,160 development path, this is where it kind of sparked. 1587 01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:15,720 I was like, I wonder what kind of creative ways they may 1588 01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:20,200 potentially come up with if they were trained in this way, where 1589 01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:24,680 every single pitch was to get an out in some form or fashion and 1590 01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:27,040 if it would be, if it if the development would look a little 1591 01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:29,000 different, then differently and again like that. 1592 01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:32,960 Maybe I don't have like the the original when they first started 1593 01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:36,160 baseball, like footage of that. But maybe pitchers were doing 1594 01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:39,160 some unique like weird creative stuff or like that wasn't even a 1595 01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:41,840 thought at that point because all it was was getting out, like 1596 01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:42,960 we just wanted to get this guy out. 1597 01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:45,920 But you look at like a Wiffle ball, like when we used to play 1598 01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:48,200 like with the with the Wiffle balls, all the holes in it, like 1599 01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:51,000 you literally just did whatever. Like your your movement changed 1600 01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,320 every single time and you're just trying to find a way out 1601 01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:54,840 just because there's no constraints, right? 1602 01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:57,960 So I don't know, could be completely out there and 1603 01:24:57,960 --> 01:25:00,080 completely useless. I'll probably try it at some 1604 01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:03,360 point in my life, but like, I think there may be something 1605 01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:05,240 there. I think so. 1606 01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:08,920 The the one thing that I would say is that we have to leave it 1607 01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:13,280 open. Meaning I can see that for some 1608 01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:16,840 players just based upon their constraints and their natural 1609 01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:20,400 you know how their how their pitches profile. 1610 01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:26,400 It might be that focusing on getting it out might not be the 1611 01:25:26,480 --> 01:25:28,480 the thing that is most successful for them. 1612 01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:33,480 So I think we have to leave it somewhat open like we can start 1613 01:25:33,480 --> 01:25:36,160 with an intention and see it because to me this is the whole 1614 01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:39,480 the whole like test, retest you know thing that's been in 1615 01:25:39,480 --> 01:25:42,320 baseball for a while now, right. Like whatever it is we should 1616 01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:45,320 test and retest, you know, and just see how it goes and then 1617 01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:48,280 you know, find what works the best for the athlete. 1618 01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:50,280 I think for me that's that's just been the thing that 1619 01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:53,400 ecological dynamics has done well for me is just let me go 1620 01:25:53,440 --> 01:25:57,520 and feel free to just always go with what works best, what works 1621 01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:00,920 best for this person right here, right now in front of me. 1622 01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:04,080 And yeah, we do have to have some thought for the future, but 1623 01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:07,640 how we get to the future also is dependent upon this moment right 1624 01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:09,760 here, right now. So if I can get you success 1625 01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:14,160 here, right here and right now set you up for wanting to stick 1626 01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:17,120 with it, it gives you motivation and then we can start to 1627 01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:19,200 eventually in the future maybe if some things need to be 1628 01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:22,880 changed or whatever, we can deal with it when when we get closer. 1629 01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:27,280 And so that's at least been my my thought process or how I 1630 01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:29,120 think about it. So I at least say that I think 1631 01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:31,680 that's a good starting place. You know, I think that's going 1632 01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:35,720 to get you probably minimum 80% of the results that you're 1633 01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:37,400 looking for. I think it's more than that. 1634 01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:40,680 I think that'll work for probably 90 to 95 to 99% of 1635 01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:43,080 people. But just you know we we can't I 1636 01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:46,200 think in some ways get too married to like this is the 1637 01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:50,680 answer per SE. But I think it is a a a good 1638 01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:52,200 one. I I do want to transition a 1639 01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:56,360 little bit here back-to-back to pitching mechanics because this 1640 01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:57,760 was something else that you brought up earlier. 1641 01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:03,160 Baker I I saw this and this for me resonated with me and it's 1642 01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:09,640 funny because my old boss and and and the the this, this other 1643 01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:13,360 company are kind of got into a little debate and it's going to 1644 01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:17,760 be a debate at ABCA. So Baker, if I know you're going 1645 01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:19,720 to be there is anybody else going to Abca? 1646 01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:22,400 Robert, correct me if I said that wrong. 1647 01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:28,360 No, you you said it right Tanner, a little little back 1648 01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:29,840 story. So there was a period of time 1649 01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:35,080 where Boyam would say. ACBAA. 1650 01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:37,160 CBA. Every. 1651 01:27:37,280 --> 01:27:39,920 Time. So every time it drove me nuts, 1652 01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:43,080 for I don't think either of us corrected them for like a while 1653 01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:44,800 and then it just got. To a point, they just let it. 1654 01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:46,200 It's like I had something in my teeth. 1655 01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:48,680 They just let it go for for for a long time. 1656 01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:51,440 It was functional though, right? It got the point across, but 1657 01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:53,320 certain point it wasn't. Functional, Yeah. 1658 01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:56,120 And it provided humor, so. Yep. 1659 01:27:56,960 --> 01:28:00,720 But anyways, so there's this tweet by arm care.com. 1660 01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:05,120 Pitching mechanics don't cause arm injuries and I'm curious 1661 01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:09,280 what your thoughts on this are. Because for me like Eco D kind 1662 01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:11,760 of help break me of this like mechanic stuff. 1663 01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:14,120 And because to me this is the whole reason that a lot of 1664 01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:17,640 people will say, well This is why we actually need to focus on 1665 01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:21,400 mechanics is it prevents injury. So I'm curious what your guys's 1666 01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:24,640 thoughts are on one each of you individually. 1667 01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:26,200 What are your thoughts on mechanics? 1668 01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:28,320 What is the role? Is there a place for them with 1669 01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:31,280 an ecological approach? It can be different from mine. 1670 01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:34,440 You can disagree with my thought and then we can dive into this 1671 01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:37,120 this this whole kind of conversation about pitching 1672 01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:42,920 mechanics and injury along with what is it like because because 1673 01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:45,520 Bleecker I because for for Bleecker I think it's it's not 1674 01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:48,160 just mechanics for for injury's sake. 1675 01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:50,800 It's also about efficiency. I think that's one of the other 1676 01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:55,880 arguments is you know mechanics lead to a more efficient 1677 01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,760 movement, and so you know based upon your guys's understanding 1678 01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:01,640 of ecological dynamics and what efficiency means from an 1679 01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:04,800 ecological dynamics perspective. What are your guys's thoughts 1680 01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:14,560 when it comes to mechanics? I I would pretty much agree with 1681 01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:18,280 that tweet, I believe. I don't think it's a mechanics 1682 01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:21,960 thing. I think Rich actually kind of 1683 01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:23,840 begged a question. He goes is it a mechanics thing 1684 01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:26,720 or is it a workload thing? Is it a poor workload? 1685 01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:33,360 Like, like, which one is it now? And then does the poor workload 1686 01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:38,800 cause issues with movements? And then you also have to think, 1687 01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:43,440 like, are they too weak to be able to throw it in a efficient 1688 01:29:43,440 --> 01:29:45,280 way? And efficient is different for 1689 01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:49,000 everybody, but I think it's more of the general qualities that 1690 01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:52,080 can cause injuries. Now, are there sometimes where 1691 01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:55,120 mechanics might cause injury? Yeah, but I don't think it's as 1692 01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:58,800 big as the baseball industry makes it, if that makes sense. 1693 01:29:58,800 --> 01:30:02,520 Like of all the guys that I've coached at my previous job job 1694 01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:06,720 now, like the guys with some of the best looking mechanics 1695 01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:09,760 usually are the ones where their arms are sore or hurt all the 1696 01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:13,160 time. The ones with the worst ones, 1697 01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:17,440 well, those movements usually aren't functional to throw hard 1698 01:30:17,440 --> 01:30:21,600 enough to where their arm hurts. So to me it's not necessarily 1699 01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:24,840 the mechanics, it's workload management. 1700 01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:27,520 Are they strong enough? Is there a certain muscle that's 1701 01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:29,920 weak and everything else is being overworked? 1702 01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:33,040 I don't know. I honestly don't know if there 1703 01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:37,120 is a specific answer to what causes injuries and then you 1704 01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:42,360 have genetics on top of that. So like, is it really is 1705 01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:44,400 mechanics? Are bad mechanics really the bad 1706 01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:46,840 guy? And then through an ecological 1707 01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:50,320 lens, is there such thing as bad mechanics or just functional 1708 01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:56,000 versus not so functional? Yeah, and I I think I tend to 1709 01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:57,800 agree with pretty much everything you said there. 1710 01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:01,760 And something that Rafe Kelly said that's always stuck out is 1711 01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:05,000 the the idea of like the calluses on your hand. 1712 01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:07,320 When you, when you're like in a gym, you get calluses in one 1713 01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:09,360 spot. So it's really hard tissue next 1714 01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:11,160 to really soft tissues and those tear. 1715 01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:14,440 But like in Rafe's world where he's climbing trees and doing 1716 01:31:14,440 --> 01:31:17,800 all these diverse movements, his whole hand gets calloused and 1717 01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:21,040 it's hard tissue next to hard tissue and those stay together 1718 01:31:21,040 --> 01:31:23,960 and they don't break off. So one thing he said it was I 1719 01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:26,440 thought really fascinating, if you train in a certain way and 1720 01:31:26,440 --> 01:31:29,480 you have really strong resilient tissue next to tissue that's not 1721 01:31:29,480 --> 01:31:32,080 trained at all, like that's where some of your non contact 1722 01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:35,320 injuries come from. And that's where I think it's, 1723 01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:39,400 it could be just weakness within the body and you just can't 1724 01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:42,920 handle that type of stress or you've developed a capacity in 1725 01:31:42,920 --> 01:31:46,640 certain areas and not other areas and that's what could 1726 01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:49,480 potentially leading to to some of the some of the injuries. 1727 01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:54,080 But I think like you could you can move in the worst way 1728 01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:58,200 possible, have a ton of stress, extra stress, put on ligaments 1729 01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:02,600 or soft tissue, whatever. But you, you can be able to 1730 01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:05,480 withstand that because of the stress you put on yourself 1731 01:32:05,480 --> 01:32:08,320 previously and you can withstand that type of stress, you're 1732 01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:10,800 probably not going to get hurt. Or you could have less stress 1733 01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:13,640 put on you, but you're not trained up to a certain point 1734 01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:15,520 and you're not strong enough to withstand that and you're going 1735 01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:19,040 to get hurt. So is it mechanics probably not 1736 01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:21,000 do. Can they like, contribute? 1737 01:32:21,160 --> 01:32:23,840 Like probably, yeah. But is that the sole reason? 1738 01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:26,680 I I wouldn't think that's ever the sole reason for it, right? 1739 01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:31,280 Robert, you got any thoughts on this? 1740 01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:34,440 You know, even Tuesday? Have you have you seen any data 1741 01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:37,760 related to this or just even from searching your own 1742 01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:39,760 experience what what are your thoughts on this? 1743 01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:44,840 Yeah. So I haven't really seen any 1744 01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:49,160 data to report it, but at the same time, I think it could be 1745 01:32:49,160 --> 01:32:52,080 an interesting use case if you know the data is presented 1746 01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,400 itself. We just haven't, there hasn't 1747 01:32:54,440 --> 01:32:57,080 really been an opportunity to kind of view this on a on a 1748 01:32:57,560 --> 01:33:00,600 large scale, especially on you know, bio mechanic side of 1749 01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:04,840 things too, just because that data is just not presently 1750 01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:08,040 available. So I would find it interesting 1751 01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:10,400 if you know there's an opportunity there where maybe we 1752 01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:14,960 can play around with some bio mechanics data and then be able 1753 01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:17,720 to marry it together and see if there's something interesting 1754 01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:18,800 there. So that's my take out. 1755 01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:23,840 Because the the additional thing that I would say and add to the 1756 01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:28,280 conversation for me, what was most illuminating for me was 1757 01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:33,520 going to take Dr. Andrea Ospino's of course is functional 1758 01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:36,000 range conditioning. And in the in the first one he 1759 01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:40,840 put up there, you know in in his mind it's a capacity issue. 1760 01:33:41,120 --> 01:33:44,080 So if the demand exceeds the capacity of the tissues or the 1761 01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:48,120 structures or whatever, you're going to get injured like that. 1762 01:33:48,120 --> 01:33:51,440 It just and to me it's like, yeah and like in what cases is 1763 01:33:51,440 --> 01:33:54,560 that not true? You know that and so but if you 1764 01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:57,600 build up the capacity of the tissues and the structures to be 1765 01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:00,600 able to handle whatever demand that you put on place on it, 1766 01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:04,720 you're not going to get injured. And so to me that is the 1767 01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:09,680 fundamental principle by which I look at almost all injuries now 1768 01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:12,520 well-being because even in contact, right, if it's a 1769 01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:15,400 contact injury, what happened? Well, the force exceeded the 1770 01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:19,280 capacity of those tissues or or structures and and destroyed 1771 01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:23,600 them or broke them. So to me the goal is with and 1772 01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:25,840 This is why right and on ramp is so important. 1773 01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:27,640 What are you trying to do? You're trying to build up the 1774 01:34:27,640 --> 01:34:30,960 capacity of the tissues to be able to with to withstand 1775 01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:34,920 whatever, whatever load you're going to place on them later. 1776 01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:38,280 And you do it in a way and you have to think because to me this 1777 01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:42,720 is actually the hardest part is to think is to think about it in 1778 01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:45,320 reverse, reverse order order. OK. 1779 01:34:45,320 --> 01:34:48,600 I have a specific date and time by which I need to have the 1780 01:34:48,600 --> 01:34:51,560 capacity to do XY or Z. And so a lot of times, you know, 1781 01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:54,200 you want to sit there and think about it like, OK, how many 1782 01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:56,720 pitches and how frequently because these are, these are the 1783 01:34:56,720 --> 01:35:02,880 two elements of frequency and and and and load or volume. 1784 01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:04,720 OK. Because these because. 1785 01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:05,960 Right. The implement that we're going 1786 01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:08,200 to use isn't going to vary much at all, right. 1787 01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:10,160 It's going to be a 5 oz, 5 oz ball. 1788 01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:13,400 So we have to think about, OK, what are the two main things 1789 01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:16,280 that are going to vary? It's going to be a frequency and 1790 01:35:16,280 --> 01:35:19,360 volume. So what is the, how frequently 1791 01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:22,400 is a person going to throw? And then two, what type of 1792 01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:24,080 volume are they going to throw and what's that going to look 1793 01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:26,360 like? And so you want to work work 1794 01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:28,840 backwards of like OK, how do I get them built up to there and 1795 01:35:28,840 --> 01:35:31,880 how much time do I need? And I think that is actually the 1796 01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:34,400 harder piece is how much time because a lot of times 1797 01:35:34,400 --> 01:35:38,480 especially in my context in college well we have winter 1798 01:35:38,480 --> 01:35:43,160 break and winter break is can be anywhere from three weeks long 1799 01:35:43,160 --> 01:35:46,000 maybe 2. But generally you're looking at 1800 01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:50,360 like 3 to 5 weeks long of the of an athlete right before our 1801 01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:53,880 season just gone on their own doing whatever, who knows what, 1802 01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:55,200 right you can give them something. 1803 01:35:56,120 --> 01:35:58,000 But this is the other thing too of like shutdowns. 1804 01:35:58,440 --> 01:36:02,320 It's like how long can I shut a guy down if I need him to be 1805 01:36:02,320 --> 01:36:05,480 ready by a certain date? And then two, when we come back 1806 01:36:05,480 --> 01:36:10,000 from break, OK, do we on ramp again like you know and what 1807 01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:11,760 does that look like? How does that cut into other 1808 01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:14,680 things that we could be doing? If I'm on ramping, can I on ramp 1809 01:36:14,680 --> 01:36:16,240 in such a way where I'm still getting work done? 1810 01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:18,840 I think so. But you know initially I think 1811 01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:21,960 that's a hard thing to figure out of. 1812 01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:25,840 Well, it's because for me the way that I approach on ramping 1813 01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:31,000 is high volume, low intensity. That's how I think about on 1814 01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:35,120 ramping is I want to build up a ton of capacity, build up a ton 1815 01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:38,320 of endurance, so that when I go back to whatever it is I want to 1816 01:36:38,320 --> 01:36:42,360 work on, I can do it. But I also think the hard part 1817 01:36:42,360 --> 01:36:46,640 is, is also building up the capacity to throw at high 1818 01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:50,160 intensity and so you also have to have a transition period of 1819 01:36:50,160 --> 01:36:53,360 high volume, low intensity to higher intensity. 1820 01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:55,720 Now the question is, and this is actually a question for you, 1821 01:36:55,720 --> 01:36:58,520 Tanner, you know, interacting with with Aaron. 1822 01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:02,760 You know, I think you can throw at high intensity more 1823 01:37:02,760 --> 01:37:04,520 frequently, but how do you do that? 1824 01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:07,000 How do you build a person up to throw high intensity more 1825 01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:10,160 frequently and not only that at a higher volume? 1826 01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:12,840 Because again when I start to think about things from a weight 1827 01:37:12,840 --> 01:37:16,000 room perspective, we can't go in there and Max out every single 1828 01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:18,760 day like you know with with moving the most tonnage. 1829 01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:22,040 Now could I go in there and try to move as fast as I could every 1830 01:37:22,040 --> 01:37:24,760 single day at a specific weight that I do the same weight every 1831 01:37:24,760 --> 01:37:26,960 single day? I think that is more doable. 1832 01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:29,880 But I guess the question is because this is to me is like I 1833 01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:34,360 look at trying to throw the ball as hard as you can as being 1834 01:37:34,360 --> 01:37:37,920 very, very similar to trying to go in the weight room and pull 1835 01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:42,680 as much weight as you possibly can for one RMI and and I think 1836 01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:46,560 the jury has has concluded and the evidence shows that you 1837 01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:50,040 cannot do that every single day unless maybe you're on steroids, 1838 01:37:50,400 --> 01:37:52,040 OK. With the exception of like the 1839 01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:56,440 ability to recover very quickly. If you can't do that then we 1840 01:37:56,440 --> 01:38:00,600 can't come in every single day and and and hit APR every day. 1841 01:38:00,760 --> 01:38:03,240 So this is my question I guess maybe throwing it back to you 1842 01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:07,120 Tanner of like you know working with being around Aaron all the 1843 01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:10,400 time, like what does it take to actually be able to throw more 1844 01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:13,320 consistent, how do we, how do we make this transition to higher 1845 01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:17,280 intent, you know hitting new PRS in terms of velocities etcetera 1846 01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:20,120 and you know can we do this in an on ramp, what does this look 1847 01:38:20,120 --> 01:38:23,920 like? Yeah, I'm honestly not sure how 1848 01:38:24,400 --> 01:38:27,960 Aaron does it. He just does it like, you know, 1849 01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:31,360 I I, I can't really give you a solid answer, but it it's fun to 1850 01:38:31,360 --> 01:38:34,680 watch because it's like every day he calls it his high, high, 1851 01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:38,240 low program, right? So he does 2 high in 10 days in 1852 01:38:38,240 --> 01:38:41,880 a row and then it's either low intensity or completely off and 1853 01:38:41,880 --> 01:38:43,880 then right back to a high intensity. 1854 01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:48,680 And I don't know. I think for him he just has the 1855 01:38:48,680 --> 01:38:52,920 ability to just be able to handle it, 'cause he didn't 1856 01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:58,520 throw hard for most of his career up until he got to Indy 1857 01:38:58,520 --> 01:39:01,600 ball and then he just started throwing Max effort, long toss 1858 01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:03,840 or something like that every single day. 1859 01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:06,880 And then all of a sudden he had a big velocity jump. 1860 01:39:07,400 --> 01:39:11,760 So watching or hearing him do it, it just seemed like his body 1861 01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:18,760 could handle it when he did it. Now in an on ramp, I'm honestly 1862 01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:20,640 not sure. I mean I think you need to 1863 01:39:20,640 --> 01:39:24,760 expose the body to throws at high intensity whether it's 1864 01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:30,240 medicine balls, swinging a bat, maybe just rotating in a Max 1865 01:39:30,240 --> 01:39:32,720 effort way. I think that's a place to start. 1866 01:39:35,240 --> 01:39:40,160 But once you get to that high intensity, like I guess if you 1867 01:39:40,160 --> 01:39:44,400 want to call it a phase or like after the on ramp is over, I'm 1868 01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:48,920 not sure maybe maybe you go after, you know you have a high 1869 01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:51,880 intent day, a moderate intent and a low however you want to 1870 01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:53,480 structure it. But like at the end of each 1871 01:39:53,480 --> 01:39:55,640 session it's one Max effort throw. 1872 01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:59,560 I don't know, like maybe you just start with one and then the 1873 01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:02,920 next time you get to a lower moderate and you go 2 and then 1874 01:40:02,920 --> 01:40:04,640 maybe three. I have no idea. 1875 01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:07,200 I haven't tried it yet. I haven't done it, but that's 1876 01:40:07,640 --> 01:40:12,040 that's maybe how I would do it. Well and and for me having 1877 01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:15,160 worked with a guy one of our players, he had some arm pain or 1878 01:40:15,160 --> 01:40:20,840 whatever some of his like medial and some of it was like on the 1879 01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:24,760 posterior side of his his elbow with the tricep. 1880 01:40:25,040 --> 01:40:32,480 And so we we did my, my, my like weighted ball on ramp which 1881 01:40:32,720 --> 01:40:34,120 actually kind of gets extended out. 1882 01:40:34,120 --> 01:40:38,360 It works best about 8 weeks, 6 to 8 weeks because I we we'll 1883 01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:41,480 we'll spend a whole two to three-week block just on like 1884 01:40:42,880 --> 01:40:46,360 not going out super far and using higher heavier weighted 1885 01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:50,200 weighted balls and do that for about you know two to three 1886 01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:52,920 weeks is usually a good good amount to build up a good solid 1887 01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:54,920 base. And then we start working back 1888 01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:57,600 and then we start transitioning down in terms of the the 1889 01:40:57,600 --> 01:41:00,240 weighted balls and we work our way all the way back to to a 1890 01:41:00,240 --> 01:41:04,720 regular baseball. And if I if I transition or I 1891 01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:10,160 drop or I add a a lower weighted baseball going down to a 5 oz 1892 01:41:10,760 --> 01:41:16,720 that you know if I start at 9 oz and I add 8, So what So it's 1893 01:41:16,720 --> 01:41:23,080 nine, so it goes 8765, that's 5 weeks or at least four weeks 1894 01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:25,440 right there just to transition. So we go 2. 1895 01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:29,640 So I think it's like 2 weeks, so about six weeks it just to do 1896 01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:31,680 that. And we haven't done any high 1897 01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:34,280 intensity throwing. All we've done is just increase 1898 01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:35,600 the distance and drop the weight. 1899 01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:39,280 And so now I've been thinking about, OK, so now if I want to 1900 01:41:39,400 --> 01:41:43,280 properly do it because we did, we did that whole thing and then 1901 01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:48,560 I had him throw to bases after that and it went OK. 1902 01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:50,120 It kind of still kind of bugged him. 1903 01:41:50,120 --> 01:41:52,320 It was still there. So I'm like, well, if I actually 1904 01:41:52,320 --> 01:41:56,240 wanted to make this go away, I would have to actually then 1905 01:41:56,240 --> 01:42:00,320 after that whole block slowly reintroduce high, high intensity 1906 01:42:00,320 --> 01:42:03,440 throws to make it so that the tissue and like the nervous 1907 01:42:03,440 --> 01:42:07,920 system can do that and then make that cause The way. 1908 01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:10,400 The way I think about it is I like this analogy that Tyler 1909 01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:13,200 used, used for, you know, what we do in the weight room. 1910 01:42:13,280 --> 01:42:17,640 And then the skill coach, right, is we we, we help them out and 1911 01:42:17,640 --> 01:42:20,640 then they get to this bridge. And then we just pat them on the 1912 01:42:20,640 --> 01:42:23,280 butt and say, hey, good luck taking what we did in the weight 1913 01:42:23,280 --> 01:42:26,240 room and figure out how to translate it to the field, you 1914 01:42:26,240 --> 01:42:27,760 know, and. And so to me it's all about 1915 01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:30,840 like, how can I walk the player further along that bridge so 1916 01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:32,760 that the jump is actually more gradual. 1917 01:42:32,760 --> 01:42:35,360 Because I found this is for me, for like weighted balls. 1918 01:42:38,520 --> 01:42:40,720 You know how when you when you switch to like a lower weight, 1919 01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:43,200 you usually, like, Shank it or just like, it's just super 1920 01:42:43,200 --> 01:42:44,960 weird? Well, I found out if you, like, 1921 01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:47,560 are constantly alternating between the ball, whatever new 1922 01:42:47,560 --> 01:42:49,560 ball that you're wanting to do eventually you can just pick him 1923 01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:51,680 up and you don't. You don't end up, you develop an 1924 01:42:51,680 --> 01:42:54,560 attunement to the to the differences in the weight and 1925 01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:58,000 how to move. So anyways that is what I found, 1926 01:42:58,840 --> 01:43:01,400 at least how I think about how to transition as you if the more 1927 01:43:01,400 --> 01:43:04,400 we can smooth it out, the easier the transition is going to be 1928 01:43:04,400 --> 01:43:06,520 for the athlete anyways. All right. 1929 01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:11,200 So I know at least one person needs to go soon so I want to, I 1930 01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:14,080 want to try to land the plane here and see if I can do it in 1931 01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:18,760 in 5 minutes is the goal. So anything that you guys want 1932 01:43:18,760 --> 01:43:22,880 to wrap with closing thoughts, closing words and then we'll go 1933 01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:26,200 into where can everybody be found and if you want to keep up 1934 01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:28,800 with them. So any any closing thoughts from 1935 01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:35,960 from any of the anybody here? I guess the, I guess the only 1936 01:43:35,960 --> 01:43:38,800 thing I'll say is I hope anybody who's made it this far in the 1937 01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:43,760 episode takes takes what people are doing over at MASH as like 1938 01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:46,440 as an example what you could potentially do at a facility and 1939 01:43:46,440 --> 01:43:49,440 actually change it up a little bit compared to your traditional 1940 01:43:49,440 --> 01:43:51,800 model. Add representativeness into it, 1941 01:43:51,800 --> 01:43:56,720 like encourage freedom, actually create some authentic movers on 1942 01:43:56,720 --> 01:43:58,640 the mound. Since I don't think you see it 1943 01:43:58,640 --> 01:44:00,920 often and I think a lot of people are scared to try it 1944 01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:04,200 within that setting. So like I think they're they 1945 01:44:04,200 --> 01:44:07,480 could be a really cool model going forward of how to 1946 01:44:07,480 --> 01:44:09,560 potentially do it. So I kind of like tip the hat 1947 01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:12,440 again like only hearing it from and seeing it from afar. 1948 01:44:12,440 --> 01:44:15,440 But from from what I'm hearing and what you're kind of talking 1949 01:44:15,440 --> 01:44:18,640 about, Tanner, I think this would be a really cool place for 1950 01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:22,040 people interested in these ideas that work in a facility to gain 1951 01:44:22,040 --> 01:44:24,680 some inspiration of how they could potentially go do it. 1952 01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:30,840 And then Tanner, where can people find you? 1953 01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:35,160 And then also too, are there any resources that you would 1954 01:44:35,160 --> 01:44:37,040 recommend? It doesn't have to be 1955 01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:39,800 specifically about Eco D You can plug Eco D stuff. 1956 01:44:40,440 --> 01:44:44,840 It could be to do with baseball, or it could not do with baseball 1957 01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:47,760 at all, like any resources that you recommend that people check 1958 01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:50,080 out. Gotcha. 1959 01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:54,320 So yeah, if people want to follow me, Instagram is TJP 1960 01:44:54,320 --> 01:44:57,080 under score training. That's just one I kind of have 1961 01:44:57,080 --> 01:44:59,080 fun with. You get a look at what I do for 1962 01:44:59,080 --> 01:45:05,480 myself training wise and then on Twitter, TJ Pruitt 2310. 1963 01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:11,720 That's going to be more of, I guess educational, just things 1964 01:45:11,720 --> 01:45:14,080 that I've been thinking about different ideas. 1965 01:45:14,680 --> 01:45:17,520 But as far as resources, going to be honest, really anything 1966 01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:20,320 from emergence I found extremely valuable. 1967 01:45:22,440 --> 01:45:26,520 Other than that, not really. I mean, I don't know. 1968 01:45:26,520 --> 01:45:29,160 I mean that's really what I what I kind of look at with all the 1969 01:45:29,160 --> 01:45:33,400 different ideas and taking ideas from other sports and asking, 1970 01:45:33,440 --> 01:45:34,920 OK, how can we apply it to baseball? 1971 01:45:34,920 --> 01:45:38,000 Because there really isn't a whole lot of people writing 1972 01:45:38,520 --> 01:45:40,680 about these ideas in a baseball setting. 1973 01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:45,920 So I would say anything from emergence and you're pretty much 1974 01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:48,880 going to be set to at least get started into these ideas. 1975 01:45:50,680 --> 01:45:54,720 Within, within it within 60 seconds, Could you speak briefly 1976 01:45:54,720 --> 01:45:58,000 on your experience and your thoughts on the Movement Academy 1977 01:45:58,200 --> 01:46:01,560 and because I, I, I know both you and Baker did that I want. 1978 01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:04,560 I'm curious if you have any thoughts on that. 1979 01:46:05,640 --> 01:46:08,840 Yeah, I really liked it because I had already been looking at 1980 01:46:08,840 --> 01:46:12,480 these ideas before I started Movement Academy for probably a 1981 01:46:12,480 --> 01:46:15,640 year and a half to two years. So then being able to be like, 1982 01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:20,160 OK, this is what you understand. This is where you're at. 1983 01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:22,640 Let's look at some of these ideas that maybe you're still 1984 01:46:22,640 --> 01:46:25,040 struggling with or you don't fully grasp. 1985 01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:29,640 And it was nice to be able to have that one-on-one or two on 1986 01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:32,960 one conversation with Sean and Tyler to be able to actually 1987 01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:35,560 like, OK, this is where I am, they're meeting me where you 1988 01:46:35,560 --> 01:46:38,480 know exactly where I am on that bridge and they're helping me 1989 01:46:38,480 --> 01:46:41,920 get across it like, OK, cool. Like, yes, that was a good 1990 01:46:41,920 --> 01:46:46,520 activity, but you could have made it better by adding XYZ or 1991 01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:51,360 taking away XYZ and being able to talk through those ideas and 1992 01:46:51,360 --> 01:46:56,400 actually becoming a better coach and understanding the theory and 1993 01:46:56,560 --> 01:46:59,600 the practicality of what I was doing and then being able to 1994 01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:02,560 hear in the big group discussions about what other 1995 01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:04,760 coaches are talking about. It's like, oh, I haven't really 1996 01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:08,160 thought of that idea in that way because I thought I had a good 1997 01:47:08,160 --> 01:47:10,520 grasp on it. But hearing somebody else's 1998 01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:13,600 perspective, it's like, oh OK, I can see where that comes in. 1999 01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:17,680 How can I tie that into who I am So extremely valuable? 2000 01:47:17,680 --> 01:47:21,760 I felt like it was the equivalence of, I don't know, 2001 01:47:21,760 --> 01:47:23,800 maybe a college level course maybe. 2002 01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:26,400 Or even even higher. Maybe like a master's level. 2003 01:47:26,400 --> 01:47:28,080 I don't know. I just know that the amount of 2004 01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:31,800 information and education I got was probably worth more than 2005 01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:33,760 what I paid. Sweet. 2006 01:47:34,800 --> 01:47:39,960 So on that note, if you want to be get get a small discount on 2007 01:47:39,960 --> 01:47:43,160 some of the their courses not not the movement Academy. 2008 01:47:43,320 --> 01:47:47,400 Use the code Edge 7 to get 7% off and so without further ado 2009 01:47:47,680 --> 01:47:48,320 till next time.