1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,800 Welcome back to Finding the Edge Podcast. 2 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:03,840 I'm Garrett Boy. I'm joined with Kyle Dupic and 3 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:10,480 today we have on Tanner Pruitt. Tanner, you had a tweet several 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,440 weeks ago. You and I exchanged some texts 5 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,560 about it. Just like a fascinating concept, 6 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,120 not just looking at the common velocity command thing, but but 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,520 really like trying to ask, would you rather recruit a highly 8 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,320 skilled pitcher and develop velocity or, or or maybe the 9 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,360 other way, would you rather recruit a hard thrower and 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,600 develop skill and kind of the nuance within that you and I 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,120 were going back, back and forth on would, would you like, just 12 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,880 talk to us quickly about that tweet what you were thinking and 13 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:58,920 get us started in that way? Yeah, for sure. 14 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,600 I mean, this tweet was, it was back in August, so a little over 15 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,160 a month now. So I don't know if I remember 16 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,560 exactly the headspace I was in, but it was just, you know, I'm 17 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:13,400 looking at, you know, the kids that we train at MASH and the 18 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,000 high school kids. And then like things that 19 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,840 they're chasing and things that they're getting told by college 20 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,360 coaches. And it's like, oh, you really, 21 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,080 you need to hit this number and we'll recruit you. 22 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,120 And it's like, well, that's great. 23 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:27,320 Like, yes, we're going to train and we're going to do all those 24 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:29,120 things. But like this kid gets out at a 25 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,640 level that is a higher than what he's being recruited for. 26 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,760 Like he shouldn't have to be required to hit a certain number 27 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,080 and then he could be recruited by certain schools. 28 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:44,520 It's like we got guys that are getting outs all the time at 82 29 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,040 to 85 and yet they're getting guys out that are committed to 30 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,280 mid majors and other division ones. 31 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,840 And it's like they're consistently getting those guys 32 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,640 out. I'm sure that their skill would 33 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,800 scale. And if you have the right 34 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,080 coaches and the right strength staff in place, it would make 35 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,680 sense that if you actually prioritized developing of the 36 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:11,560 overall skill, which includes velocity in the fall, that by 37 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:17,080 the springtime you should have that 82 to 85 guy at least 38 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,680 having his floor up to 84, in my opinion. 39 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,720 Like raising the floor 2 miles an hour in the fall. 40 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,520 I mean, that seems reasonable to me, especially if you're getting 41 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,480 a high school kid, you know, or fresh out of high school as a 42 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,280 true freshman. I think that it's just a lot of 43 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,800 college coaches and I know you 2 and I know you're not looking at 44 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,120 it as black or white. There's a lot of nuance to it. 45 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,520 But I think that even with all of the resources out there, it's 46 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,800 it's like coaches are like, man, you have to hit this number and 47 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,600 we'll, we'll give you an offer like that type of thing. 48 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,360 And it's just kind of ridiculous to me when you say you want out 49 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,520 getters and velocity doesn't matter, but then you straight up 50 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:01,400 tell the kid, hey, you need to hit this number regardless of 51 00:03:01,640 --> 00:03:03,200 how they do. They're like, yeah, once you hit 52 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:04,760 this number in a bullpen, we'll talk to you. 53 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,240 It's like, why? Why do you want it in a bullpen? 54 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,200 Like this doesn't make sense to me. 55 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:15,000 So I that's kind of where what I remember this this thread or the 56 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:20,920 short thread like coming from. And it's like I had this thought 57 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:25,080 as I was getting ready for this yesterday, is like if we had 58 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,640 more skill coaches, so like pitching coaches or hitting 59 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:33,800 coaches that were well versed in the S&C world, we could do a 60 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,440 lot. Like we could be pretty 61 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,800 dangerous, right? Because a lot of the strength 62 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,840 coaches they have how many teams that they're in charge of, you 63 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,640 know what I mean? It's like 1 coach for 30 teams, 64 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,400 right? When I was a pitching coach at a 65 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,200 division two and I was like, hey, can I take over the the 66 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,040 baseball strength side? And I was only there for the 67 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,800 spring, but the strength coach was like, yes, please take it. 68 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,400 I've got 30 plus other teams that I got to worry about. 69 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,000 So all right, cool. It's just like, how much more 70 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,920 dangerous could we be if more skill coaches were versed in the 71 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,680 SNC world and could actually put together a program that could 72 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,840 work on everything and not just be one or the other? 73 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,640 Let me start with devil's advocate, just because I think 74 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,400 the one thing that that I would track so well with everything 75 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,680 you would say the one, you know, maybe it's an old part of me, or 76 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,240 maybe it's just my experiences. Sometimes I the thing that I 77 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,280 personally fight with is like this normative growth of 78 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:41,400 velocity that most people have. You know, we have guys who make 79 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,120 big jumps, You have guys who have your normative jumps, they 80 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,240 just kind of slowly climb. And you have guys just who, who 81 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,600 throughout the career, and this has been high school for me, 82 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:56,480 This has been, you know, starting here in the college 83 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,120 sphere for this past year where it's like, oh, they don't really 84 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,080 make growth. And, and I think there's, you 85 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,840 know, 2 sort of pieces that I've heard. 86 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:08,440 And I want you to jump in and, and, and because part of the 87 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,560 reason I was so interested to talk to you about this is one of 88 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,480 the things that we fight with as coaches of, you know, college 89 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:19,840 programs is we don't have the sheer volume of athletes to just 90 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:22,720 almost see a bigger subset of data that helps us better 91 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:24,560 understand how these things interact. 92 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,840 And so I was kind of interested in that because I think there's, 93 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:30,720 there's maybe 2 arguments that I've heard out there. 94 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:36,560 And, and both of them strike me as reasonable, but also I, I, 95 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,440 again, I fight with them. One of those is this idea that, 96 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,200 well, you just you haven't gotten the right program for 97 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,320 that person, right? You haven't individualized it 98 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:47,920 enough. And if you just individualized 99 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,040 it correctly, they would see velocity growth. 100 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,520 And I'm like, OK, that that makes intuitive sense to me. 101 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,640 So I must just stink as a coach, quite frankly, because I have 102 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,680 these guys who maybe don't gain as fast as other people. 103 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:06,760 And then the other piece is this, this idea of like, I 104 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,080 really respect the, the people who say this, but like, God 105 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,000 doesn't make junk right? Or something like that. 106 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:12,640 Like the human tissue has to adapt. 107 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,800 So all you got to do is find the right adaptation. 108 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,240 And so it kind of goes back to the, the first one a little bit, 109 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,840 But I'm also like, I don't know, like I've just seen guys who 110 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:23,640 just roll out of bed and throw 90 and like that's different. 111 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,440 I, I don't think they trained for that. 112 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,000 And you're telling me that I can take the guy who throws 78 and 113 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,480 get him to 90? Like, I don't know, maybe it 114 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,160 like maybe somebody out there can. 115 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,640 So would you just speak to that? Because that's the one piece for 116 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:35,680 me. If I was playing devil's 117 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,840 advocate that I'm like, I think I agree with you in general. 118 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:41,680 Like I want skillful pitchers and I think, you know, throwing 119 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,840 harder. It feels like we have some 120 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:46,280 better ideas how to do that. But sometimes I just fight with 121 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:48,760 like man, I'm struggling to get this guy to gain Velo. 122 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,160 Yeah. And and I've had those too. 123 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:57,240 I'm not saying that like I know all and I can develop everybody 124 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:02,120 to gain velocity. Like I had, I mean, one of 125 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,760 Boyam's former pitchers and you know, he he was like, hey, like 126 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,160 I want to get to that next level and my coaches want to see a 127 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,640 little bit more velocity. And I was like, OK, like that's 128 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:14,840 fine. We're going to sell out the 129 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,400 weight room. We're not going to do 130 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,560 traditional velocity days, but we have some things that we can 131 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,400 work on that can probably improve. 132 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:23,720 And honestly, we didn't see it all summer. 133 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,880 But what he did see was like, wow, I have become a better 134 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,920 pitcher. I know how to use my stuff and 135 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,240 you know I only had them for 2 1/2 months but I got to check in 136 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,880 with him to see how he's doing. But I wouldn't be shocked if 137 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:42,200 it's just a delayed. What's the word I'm looking for? 138 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,960 Like it shows like, yeah, like the villa shows up later. 139 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,440 The yeah, because we ran a variation of Jake Terra's 140 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,080 hypertrophy clusters, if you know what that is, it's just 141 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,400 like an 8 by 5 and then a phase of 10 by 4, then a phase of 12 142 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,240 by 3 for the Corliss because like he just needed to get 143 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,080 stronger. Like that was like a low hanging 144 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,600 fruit for him. So I was like, hey, would you 145 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,800 want to try this? I've seen success with it. 146 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,080 And then that way the velocity is developed in the weight room 147 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,360 and medicine balls, and that's where we're going to work on it. 148 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,360 But every time we pitch, we're working on skill, we're working 149 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,760 on how our stuff is going to work against hitters and how 150 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,160 it's going to play off of each other. 151 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,160 It's like, yeah, sure, he didn't lose any, but he was able to 152 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,280 sustain that velocity that he had through that crazy lifting 153 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,159 protocol, which I think is a win because he should have gone way 154 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:36,440 down for a while and he didn't. But then I've also had other 155 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,919 athletes where it's like, like, yeah, they just didn't gain 156 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:42,280 velocity. And you also just don't know, 157 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,200 like, what they're doing outside of training with you. 158 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,040 It's very possible that they're doing all the right things. 159 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,760 But then when I talk to those kids that don't gain anything 160 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,520 other than the athlete, I just gave an example of their, you 161 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,040 know, I ask what they ate for breakfast. 162 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,920 Like, what are you eating? A bowl of cereal? 163 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,400 And then I go to work and I come here. 164 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,840 I was like, OK, it's three O clock. 165 00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:08,200 What have you had since then? Nothing says that. 166 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:09,800 I'm like, is that normal? Like we've talked about 167 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,680 nutrition when we first started. Like, like things like that 168 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:14,800 start to pop up more often than not. 169 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,200 And I'm not trying to put the blame on the athlete just 170 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,880 because I was a college athlete. We were all college athletes. 171 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,240 Like it gets hectic and yeah, sometimes you forget to eat 172 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:29,120 because life, the college life is it just, it just gets busy. 173 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:34,000 But I just think that there's so many more factors out there is 174 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:39,120 why they don't, and I don't know, I just, I don't think 175 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,200 it's, oh, you haven't found the right program or you have to 176 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,040 find the right stimulus. I I just think that also not 177 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,440 everybody was meant to throw hard. 178 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,160 Like I think that's another thing too. 179 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,680 Like you can train all you want, you can do all the right things, 180 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:58,000 but maybe you never get to 90, but you go from 78 to 8485 and 181 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,920 play at a really good division two and you ball out there, 182 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,920 right? Like I think you're leading to. 183 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,840 As well to like dynamical systems theory like this idea 184 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,320 that learning is non linear. Yeah, and it's. 185 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,640 And it seems like so many people, what they want is they 186 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,320 want hey, this is the formula for Yup. 187 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,560 And if I get, if I put the right inputs in, I just have to find 188 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:20,240 the right inputs. And, and you see this all, 189 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,400 whether it's categorization systems, we've talked about 190 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,560 those in the past, like, oh, if you just categorize the person 191 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:27,760 right, it'll unlock XYZ. If you just get the right 192 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,920 program, it'll unlock XYZ. We know that there's a 193 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,680 relationship between working hard and and finding the right 194 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:35,840 things. And yet it's non linear. 195 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,320 You know, you're going to have some people with a small input 196 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:40,160 makes a huge change. You're going to have people with 197 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,080 big inputs that just seemingly doesn't make changes and it's 198 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,080 not going to go according to your schedule. 199 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,160 And I think too, that guys don't understand how much they say, 200 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,360 for example, the eating piece. I only gained 10 lbs in four 201 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,600 years of lifting in college. And I thought I was eating a 202 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,160 lot, but it was not until after college that I really learned 203 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,800 how much I had to eat just to gain weight. 204 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,080 And I think that's, you know, guys especially, I mean, we're 205 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,120 talking before we started recording about like the 206 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,440 difference between a two year and a four year, you know, even 207 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,360 within two years, guys make a lot of mistakes early on as far 208 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,960 as like what they're doing and how they're approaching it. 209 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,440 And so I think that often times is a a larger piece of it. 210 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,000 I do, I, I mean, I know we're kind of banging on the idea that 211 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,640 it's, you know, it's not just about finding the right 212 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,600 stimulus, but I kind of think, you know, it, it really is it in 213 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,880 terms of when you manage their workload and their recovery. 214 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:48,160 Well, you should see adaptation. And I do think going back to 215 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,120 like the basics like specificity matters, you know, when we, when 216 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,720 we start thinking about, OK, if I want to develop velocity that 217 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,960 translates to, to the mound, maybe I need to be doing my Velo 218 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,480 training on the mound. You know, I mean, I know we've, 219 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:11,240 you know, at our program kind of laughed at some of the Velo that 220 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,600 we see when the when they're throwing into a net right in 221 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,760 front of them, even if they're throwing off a off off a mound. 222 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,240 But I do think there's a time and a place for everything. 223 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,680 Like if your goal is to is for your body to experience going 224 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:30,800 fast and throwing at that Velo, then there's value to that in 225 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,000 the same way that there's value to a run and gun. 226 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,680 And then this was where to me, this is going back to what you 227 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:37,600 were saying before. Tanner, I agree. 228 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:44,040 I think having the background in S&C and to be able to think like 229 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,960 through S&C principles of periodization and of just basic, 230 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,040 you know, how does the body adapt to different stimulus? 231 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,760 And then like, what are the adaptations that you want and 232 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,240 how can you find the methods to achieve that becomes very like a 233 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,720 very key piece. Because you know, going back to 234 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,400 the, the workload piece, like understanding that and like 235 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,360 having a periodization model for that in a way of thinking about 236 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,840 that is to me, in some ways that is the, the art and the 237 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:21,400 challenge in some ways, but also you have those principles set 238 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,320 you up to be able to, to do that. 239 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,240 And so because I think even one of the other pieces that I think 240 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,400 that plays into This is why is it that some guys want to bring 241 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,200 a guy in who has velocity is that there's an inherent risk of 242 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,760 trying to develop it. So, but on the same piece of it, 243 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:45,120 if you want to reduce the injury risk, one of the things that we 244 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,320 talked a lot about or like a lot of people talk about is like 245 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,000 workload management. And so, you know, when it comes 246 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,640 to workload management, I also think it you, you, you layer in 247 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:58,000 there like recovery, nutrition, managing those things, like you 248 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,760 have to manage all these different pieces. 249 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,880 And it's, it's a really challenging thing to do. 250 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,200 But I, but at the same point, I think it's, it's still doable. 251 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,640 But at the end of the day, like guys got to want it, you know, 252 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,400 And like, I think that's, that's where a lot of young guys, like 253 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,040 I was saying before, just don't understand how much they have to 254 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,600 be paying attention to these different pieces and all these 255 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,600 pieces playing. Some guys are lucky they're, you 256 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,120 know, cuz these guys are, you know, still really young. 257 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,360 And so their testosterone is just absolutely through the 258 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,240 roof. And some guys are able to take 259 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,440 advantage of that way better than others. 260 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,440 So I think we also have to like understand, you know, to Kyle, 261 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,520 to your point of like, well, what about the guy who just 262 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:42,040 rolls out of bed and throws 90? Well, I mean, some of it is the, 263 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,640 the, you know, the genetic side of it. 264 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,880 And then how much, how much of it too is like, I, I even think 265 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,760 like, you know, because intent drives adaptation. 266 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,200 So what was their intent as a kid growing up? 267 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,440 You know, is it something like that who drove a lot of how hard 268 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,360 they threw? Could it be other factors of 269 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,640 things that they, they did outside of baseball that played 270 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,280 into developing, you know, how their tissue is? 271 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,000 And I think we kind of we kind of don't give credence to the 272 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,200 fact that it's not just like it's magic. 273 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,840 There's probably a story behind how they got to where they are. 274 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,400 Yeah, I'd, I'd love to hear each of us just answer that question, 275 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,560 even though I'm, you know, I'm quite sure that we'd all be on a 276 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,320 similar plane with it. I would love to hear you sort of 277 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:35,000 defend. Would you at mass rather work 278 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,800 with a highly skilled pitcher and then try to develop velocity 279 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,040 to help him reach his goals or, you know, boy MRI and the 280 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,160 college sphere? Would we rather see a a pitcher 281 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:51,080 who is throwing hard and and we're ever having to develop 282 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:52,720 those skills? Which one of those would you 283 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,800 sort of prefer and and sort of defend your position and why? 284 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:06,120 Good. So not everybody is the same, 285 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,160 but there is like, I don't want to call it a stereotype, but 286 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,560 when you work with an athlete that is highly skilled and needs 287 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:19,760 velocity, they tend to then get super domed up about the 288 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,640 velocity and then forget about the skill completely. 289 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:28,200 And it's, I don't want to say it's hard to work with them, but 290 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,800 it's always like, hey, remember, we still have to get out. 291 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,680 Hey, remember, like don't worry about mechanics. 292 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,280 We got to focus on the task. Hey, remember, like what the 293 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,160 goal is, remember what the important thing is. 294 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,640 And obviously that's our job as coaches. 295 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,720 But I think I would rather work on the guy that has the 296 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,520 velocity, again, this is the private sector, and work on the 297 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,880 actual skill because that guy knows he can already throw hard 298 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,520 and he's not even worried about any of that other stuff. 299 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,160 He's just like, I need to get outs. 300 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,920 And then they become so focused on the task. 301 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,520 And I actually think you see more growth there as far as the 302 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,160 skill goes. And like my last job where I 303 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,240 just had a huge plethora of athletes, it was interesting 304 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,440 because it was a guys that already threw hard that say I 305 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,119 need to work on the skill that actually gained more velocity 306 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:15,640 because they weren't worried about it. 307 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,200 And then through gaining confidence in the skill, it was 308 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,240 like something unlocked. I don't know what it is, but, or 309 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,680 I guess I shouldn't, their degrees of freedom were no 310 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,119 longer frozen because they weren't so worried about 311 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,600 command. It was like they were they were 312 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,480 freed up and they they saw more gains because obviously they 313 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,600 were still in the weight room and doing the other things and 314 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,320 taking care of their nutrition and recovery. 315 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,800 But it was like we brought their focus away from velocity and 316 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,480 they still saw more of an increase than the athlete that 317 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,040 had the skill but obsessed over the velocity. 318 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:59,160 So are you saying that you'd rather develop the the skill 319 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,360 side of it rather than develop velocity? 320 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,400 So then through that argumentation you would say 321 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,560 you'd rather recruit guys that have the Velo? 322 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:11,480 Well, that's in the private sector. 323 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,320 Sure. Right. 324 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:18,040 Like I think as again, I was only a college pitching coach 325 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:23,200 for one season, not even a fall, but like, I, I want the guys 326 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,320 that know how to get outs. And I think when, when I was on 327 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,120 the field with guys, it was like, yes, they wanted velocity 328 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:33,680 like those, those athletes, but at the same time, like they were 329 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,840 inundated with, we need to win games right now. 330 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,120 So whatever you got to do to win games, that's what we're going 331 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:41,000 to do. And so again, I don't know if 332 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,400 it's easier in my mind, in my, you know, I'm, I'm not a college 333 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,800 coach. I was again for one semester, 334 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,440 but like, I just think it was, it would be easier right as a 335 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,200 college coach to get the elite out getters. 336 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,240 And usually the elite out getters are not lifting as much 337 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,040 as they should be from my experience. 338 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,320 So then it's like, OK, you're going to get a lot of baby games 339 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,200 if you can take this seriously and develop that way. 340 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,000 I think one of the responses from Turner, and it's kind of on 341 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,160 the screen there is like as respectful as I can be, I'm 342 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,920 afraid there's a lot of bad coaching out there both on field 343 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,800 performance and S&C. So trusting that to go well is a 344 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,840 little silly or a little iffy. And I think like, if you can 345 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,400 have a strength coach or somebody you trust, you're like, 346 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,040 hey, this is his focus. Like, like, what can we do in 347 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,000 the weight room to help drive the adaptations? 348 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,160 I'll worry about the throwing volume and just make sure we 349 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,320 continue to maintain the skill. Well, that's where I do think 350 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,600 like in the future, like this is where I like guys like Bill 351 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,560 Miller, right, even yourself who, who understand both and can 352 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,120 program both because when you start taking both into account, 353 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,840 then you can manage those workloads a little bit more 354 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,280 effectively. And then Kyle, I mean, you've, 355 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,920 we've talked about this too, about timing when you're going 356 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,000 to do the lift versus the, you know, versus your skill work. 357 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,320 That can be really challenging. I mean, we'll, where I'm at, 358 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,960 we'll lift before practice. So guys are doing all their 359 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,560 lifting before their skill work, which is less than ideal, but it 360 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,960 just comes down to the fact of logistics like. 361 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,040 We don't want to, we don't want guys there till like 8:00 or 362 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,840 9:00 PM at night, You know, like after practice, OK, guys, you're 363 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,000 going to have to now go to the weight room. 364 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,840 Now it's six or seven or. And some of it too is just like 365 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,000 as coaches, we don't want to be there because we don't have a 366 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,920 strength coach. You know, we don't want to be 367 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,120 there till like 8 or 9 at night. And so I think that that plays 368 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:42,200 into because otherwise it's like, oh, you know, when I, my 369 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,200 first stint here, I had guys come in and lift at like 6:00 in 370 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,400 the morning because that's just the easiest time to get them in. 371 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,520 But that was brutal, like waking up and all that sort of stuff. 372 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,240 And so now we do it in the middle of the day, which I think 373 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,040 is much, much better. But you know, there's, there's 374 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,320 some downsides like, you know, really at the end of the day, 375 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,840 you're just trying to do the best, you know, an imperfect 376 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,080 plan, you know, executed consistently is better than the 377 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,360 perfect plan that gets executed, you know, haphazardly. 378 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:15,840 So I think that's kind of, you know, something to, to keep in 379 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,080 mind as well. But the other thing I think it, 380 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,960 it also depends, you know, what I didn't bring up before is how 381 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,520 much, what's our time window that we have to work with guys, 382 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:28,960 right? So Tanner, you brought up, you 383 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,160 know, two months, two months is, is challenging to, to make 384 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,520 significant gains sometimes because of the, the short window 385 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:42,200 that you have, you know, I, I do think maybe 3 to 4, you know, to 386 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,680 six months, like you can do a lot more with that. 387 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,120 You also have time to make adjustments to, to try some 388 00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:50,400 different things to figure out what, how they respond. 389 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,880 But this is to where I think the deeper S&C principles start to 390 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,080 come into play here of do you have a way to evaluate what a 391 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,320 player needs? Because not every every guy 392 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,600 needs strength. Like, yeah, OK, maybe they 393 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,000 haven't lifted a ton, but if you start and you evaluate, you 394 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,880 know, their what the heck is it called? 395 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,680 Their their strength, is it strength speed index? 396 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,880 What is it? I haven't, I mean, use that in 397 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,360 this word in a long time, but basically like trying to figure 398 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:22,960 out, you know, does is their system more? 399 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,600 Is there a deficit more on the strength side or is there a 400 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:32,520 deficit more on the speed side? And that that plays big Yeah. 401 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:37,120 And because I remember when I, my first stint at DCTC when I 402 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:41,080 was doing the lifting, you know, the mindset there at that point 403 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,240 was, and this is what I heard from all the strength coaches, 404 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:44,320 oh, you just need to get them stronger. 405 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:45,400 You just need to get them stronger. 406 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,680 And so that's what we did with Chase getting stronger. 407 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,240 And I can't remember, I think it was, I was reading through some 408 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,840 of Bill's stuff recently and it's just like the Max's chasing 409 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,040 Max's often times doesn't transfer. 410 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:05,360 It's like looking at improving velocity and, and, and, and also 411 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:07,960 like how I can't remember what the other one was. 412 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,720 One of the part of it was like the velocity of the movement 413 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,200 tracking that had a bigger impact on the like seeing 414 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,240 increases in velocity, whether it's bat speed or throwing 415 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,200 velocity or whatever. And that just makes more sense 416 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,560 for what we're doing because, you know, yes, although your Max 417 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,160 output can go up, but that there's no time constraint on 418 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,120 that. But when we play, we have to be 419 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:35,680 able to produce force in a short window. 420 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,440 And so going back to my first stint at DCTC, we had a kid who 421 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,760 was super strong in the weight room, but he was only throwing 422 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,360 75, you know, And it was like, oh, that kid could have used a 423 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:52,400 lot more speed work, you know. And so having a way to assess 424 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,200 what a kid needs as far as you know, where he sits on the 425 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,960 spectrum, because some of it too is if you improve some of the 426 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:03,560 other tissue qualities, such as like, you know, their, how well 427 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,400 they use their, their, their stretch shortening cycle, right? 428 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,320 You know, and how, how elastic their tissues are. 429 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,120 You can also see a gain in velocity. 430 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,560 Maybe you don't see a gain in their, their physical mass, you 431 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,920 know, because obviously, you know, there's mass oftentimes 432 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,680 helps guys throw harder, but there are those outliers where 433 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,120 you're like, you aren't very big, but yet you freaking throw 434 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:31,840 the ball super hard. So I do think there's a it's a 435 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,880 both and that that shows you that sometimes where a guy needs 436 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,840 to make gains is more in changing the, the type of tissue 437 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,960 that he has versus giving him more tissue. 438 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,360 Obviously some of those things go together, but at the same 439 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:49,840 point, you know, having a way to evaluate guys and what what they 440 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,040 need I think becomes a key part of of this puzzle. 441 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,840 Yeah, I I'm searching for a tweet that talks about at one 442 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,960 point the strength velocity profile thing maybe not being as 443 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,320 clean cut as we thought, because I think there's a thread there 444 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,480 right there because we're always looking for the easier input 445 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,160 output. And and I've realized like the 446 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,560 desire to try to fight against that and try to figure out what 447 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,800 are the principles of the processes that we believe that 448 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,320 underpin skill development and adaptation. 449 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,080 I want to go back to because one interesting thing you said when 450 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,800 you answered your question, Tanner was like, you know, in 451 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,480 the private how it would be different for you. 452 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:39,440 One of the things I've noticed is that within the college 453 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,440 coaching sphere, now you know almost every place you go, not 454 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,720 all of them, of course, but but almost every place you go, 455 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,240 especially if you're in the NCAA will have contact restrictions. 456 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,400 And so it really challenges like, you know, basically you 457 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,160 said, well, if I'm in the private, right, like I'm, I'm 458 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,200 going to want to take the velocity, work on the skill. 459 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,680 And my initial thought was, man, when I did a bunch of lessons 460 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,040 back in high school with guys, I was find it hard because it's 461 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,840 hard to find hitters. Do you have the right cage 462 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,120 sizes? You can't really do fielders. 463 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,360 Whereas on a team atmosphere. That's the thing I've really 464 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,280 appreciated about instituting lives is I got all the fielders 465 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,760 and hitters whenever I want. I got a bunch of catchers. 466 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,520 And so I'd be interested, has that been something, you know, 467 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,800 like, and maybe that'll lead us into like the almost we've 468 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,040 alluded to it, like how much decontextualized training, if 469 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,000 you are going to chase a little velocity, like where, where do 470 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,600 you start to that search for the person? 471 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,960 But have you found that difficult at all in the private 472 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,160 sphere to not necessarily have the access to certain people 473 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,480 when you're, because you're basically saying, I'd rather 474 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,520 take the guy that throws hard and develop their skill. 475 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,600 But skill is super contextual, right? 476 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,160 And you don't always have the access like we do to the real 477 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,800 thing. Yeah, and I think that's where 478 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,760 like, shout out to emergence here at the Movement Academy. 479 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,640 But like, it's just like be creative, like find ways to add 480 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,840 pressure or context even when you don't have the bodies. 481 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,560 So like, if I look at the the collegiate program I ran this 482 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,640 summer, right, we didn't always have hitters at 1st and then we 483 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,040 were able to get them at about halfway through when when guys, 484 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,600 you know, we're on ramp and ready to go live. 485 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,480 Like that wasn't an issue, but like when we didn't, it was 486 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,560 like, OK, like what are you wanting to improve on other than 487 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,000 velocity? And you know, we had those 488 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:34,080 conversations and Johnson and he was like, hey, I I need to get 489 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,080 better with my fastball and I need to develop my change up. 490 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,240 So that was our focus. And so it was a lot of 491 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,800 differential learning. It was a lot of like, OK, like 492 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,120 we're missing in certain spots, Like what can we adjust? 493 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:49,960 Where can we shift our eyes to like finding different ways to 494 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,720 get them to search the landscape and potentially like talk 495 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,000 through like, OK, we're throwing to A9 pocket right now. 496 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,480 Where could you shift your eyes when you're actually throwing in 497 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,040 a game? Like what would you look at and 498 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,160 just start talking through those things And just to kind of help 499 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,160 them understand like, you know, like it is going to be 500 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,560 different. But then adding like I just 501 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,880 talked about differential learning, like, Hey, we want to 502 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,680 work on our change up today. Every other pitch is going to be 503 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,240 a change up. Like you cannot throw it 504 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,080 back-to-back. Like you have to go back to it 505 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,200 and see if we can figure out how to throw this pitch in a, in an 506 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,880 effective spot or in a competitive spot at the very 507 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,920 least. And then when we got to lives, 508 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,520 it was like, Hey, look like you want to work on that change up. 509 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,080 Can't throw any other pitch other than a change up until you 510 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,880 get a first strike or we would add other things like that 511 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,320 within lives because we don't have fielders and things like 512 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,440 that. But in our winter programs, like 513 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,880 we get stand in hitters more often than not. 514 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,520 And so like I, I even posted a YouTube video about a kid I was 515 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,160 working with and just showing him how to, how to read hitters. 516 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,000 Like we weren't necessarily working counts, but we were 517 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,320 working pitches off of each other with a stand in there. 518 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,040 Because I mean, it was like, I want to say it was November. 519 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,760 So they were like 7 weeks into throwing and we didn't want to 520 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,360 go live yet just because we didn't trust all of these kids 521 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,400 to go 80% lives even with the radar gun. 522 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,040 So it's like, how can we add context in other ways? 523 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,000 And it was like, Hey, you got him to move this way, even 524 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,000 though you missed your spot, like you were trying to go 525 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,320 outside with your fastball and you yanked it inside and you got 526 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,480 him to back up. Like there's a perfect 527 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,360 opportunity here for you to go with a change up that starts at 528 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,800 him and front hip. It like getting them to start 529 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,280 thinking through things that way, Like, oh, I got him to 530 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,000 move. This pitch is open instead of 531 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,880 gosh, I, I missed my spot. Now I got to, I got to try and 532 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,800 be perfect here. It's like, no, you just opened 533 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,400 up an opportunity with a miss. Like there are opportunities out 534 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,160 there. And then going into light at 535 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,960 bats, like like, yes, we're missing the whole defense and 536 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,120 we're missing all of those things. 537 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,200 But then we would add like, OK, we're going to go out of a slide 538 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,440 step against this batter, like try and be quick. 539 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,600 Can we be quick to hold plate and still get out, still throw 540 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,000 competitive pitches? And if we can't, OK, that's what 541 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,720 we're going to work on next week in our bullpen. 542 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,200 That's the context we're going to add. 543 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,280 Even though we don't have the physical context, we can still 544 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,680 in their mind, like, OK, run around. 545 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,800 First you got to be below a 1/5 to the plate. 546 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,760 Like different things like that. So yeah, I don't have as many 547 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,400 bodies, but I feel like with being creative and just the 548 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,720 things I've learned through emergence and all of their 549 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,600 content and just my experience, it was like, it's easy to add 550 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,360 those things even when I don't have bodies. 2 bodies make it 551 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,480 better 100%. I'm never going to say you don't 552 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,080 need extra bodies, but the more you have, obviously it's going 553 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,920 to be better. But I I stopped looking at it as 554 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,720 something I'm running into and just something that like I can 555 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,880 work with. So on that note of like having 556 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:59,080 stand insurance, I remember seeing, I believe Ari here post 557 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,160 what they've been doing at at the school that he's at where 558 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,680 they're where they have a stand in with with a half bat. 559 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,120 I've always. Wondered. 560 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,240 Yeah. Well, so The thing is, is like, 561 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:19,520 I'm curious cause here their focus is on for the hitters is 562 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:25,960 working on their swing decisions because they're, they can't 563 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,240 actually hit the ball. I wonder if their swing behavior 564 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,640 is different because you're not actually like you can take what 565 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,920 looks like, Oh yeah, that swing right there where he like took a 566 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,320 good swing. How do they not all look like 567 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,440 that? Well, that's my point is because 568 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,960 you're not actually, you don't have a barrel that can actually 569 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,840 hit anything. So therefore, what are you going 570 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,160 to do to like, if you happen to be early, you know, you're not 571 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,720 going to go lunge forward because you don't have a 572 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,480 anything, There's no bat there to actually go try to touch it, 573 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,880 you know. So that's where I wonder, you 574 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,800 know, with these types of environments, because you don't 575 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,600 actually have the, the, the bat or maybe the intent is slightly 576 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,320 different, like you can't actually swing. 577 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,680 Maybe we'll see if some small things of like, you know, how 578 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,200 they move and how they how they're tracking it. 579 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,880 But I also wonder if guys kind of go out to lunch a little bit 580 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,920 because, you know, you'll see hitters that will just swing at 581 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,360 a breaking ball as if it's a fastball and they'll be just 582 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:31,080 super out in front, you know, But because they're just like, 583 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,160 Oh, I see ball. I'm just now I'm going to swing. 584 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,720 Like to me that that makes it more difficult. 585 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,600 Maybe you can tell something as a pitcher, you know, you 586 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,760 learning to read that like, Oh, he didn't see that at all. 587 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,400 But at the same point, I just wonder, you know, the behavior 588 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,040 might be a little bit different because of the fact that they 589 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,520 they can't actually, there's no barrel to the end of that. 590 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,760 You know, you may have like how they're triggering and that that 591 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,640 is still useful information. But anyways, I'm just curious if 592 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:05,760 you guys have any thoughts on that. 593 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,080 Yeah. I mean, like when we would do 594 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,840 that at MASH, like the reason we did half bats was because we're 595 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,880 in cages and like there's just too many bodies. 596 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,600 So if they swing and hit one, like not not a good situation. 597 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,280 But what we were looking more at is not necessarily the swings, 598 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,240 but like were if it was a change up away, were they lunging out 599 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,680 over the plate? Or if it was in, were they were 600 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,680 they flinching and it wasn't even close to hitting them? 601 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,680 Like getting a read on how their pitches are moving and do they 602 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,800 look comfortable or do they look uncomfortable? 603 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,240 Because if they were swinging 1/2 bat and they looked 604 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,280 uncomfortable, that was a good sign to me. 605 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,080 That means like their stuff is making that hitter worried and 606 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,520 they can't even hit the ball right. 607 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,280 And I think, and I, I don't want to speak for a hitting coaches, 608 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,440 but I think a lot of it wasn't necessarily about swing 609 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,440 decisions for us or for our hitters. 610 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:59,920 It was more about like trying to get their timing down as far as 611 00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,880 like that front foot and then being able to say like, Nope, I 612 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,040 was late. I misread it and it was like 613 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,640 picking up on things like that. I could be wrong, but that's 614 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,440 what it seemed like to me because like that was a station 615 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,199 for their hitters program. So they would go hit off high 616 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:16,960 velocity machine and then a coach throwing overhand and they 617 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,280 would then come to the pitching area and stand in with a half 618 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,400 bat. And so it was work on timing and 619 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,000 then that coach throwing overhand was like, OK, what 620 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:26,719 pitches did you struggle with timing wise? 621 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,040 And they would say, oh, curveball, all right, you're 622 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,400 going to get a lot of those. For me, at 30 feet, I don't know 623 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,760 if that was every session, but if there were a handful of them 624 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,400 where it seemed like that were, that was a conversation that was 625 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,520 happening. Yeah, we we would use the half 626 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,199 back similarly with as as you alluded to in your first part of 627 00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,520 your answer with that or behavior as opposed to we've 628 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,920 actually never queued. It was just something that I 629 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,120 asked to have more in there because, you know, you're 630 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,520 throwing in a bullpen and it's before a game or it's it's just, 631 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,120 you know, during practice and it's like, no, I want somebody 632 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,440 in there. And one of the problems with 633 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,760 stand insurance when they're not swinging anything is that they 634 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,560 don't behave any way any way like a batter, you know, but if 635 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,680 you do put something in their hand that they're going to swing 636 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,760 and we've tried to make it a similar weight of a bat. 637 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,560 I think, you know, you're you're alluding boy into like the 638 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,880 reality that there are limitations to everything that 639 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,480 we're going to do right. And so it's it it kind of like, 640 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,160 you know, maybe I'm not going to let you off the hook. 641 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,240 I want you to answer the question, but at some point 642 00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:35,880 we'll touch on here. Like, how much are you doing the 643 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,120 half bad? Is that some of your main lives? 644 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,520 And then every once in a while you touch lives, you know what I 645 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,080 mean? Or is it flipped? 646 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,640 Like it's just, it's just a small place that you touch 647 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,040 similar to like pull downs is all you do is pull downs like, 648 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,000 you know, 50 to 60 to 70% of your training. 649 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,160 Then I don't know if that's going to that's going to 650 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,920 transfer. But the half of that for us is 651 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,920 just like, hey, there's this one activity that we have 652 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,200 constraints as a coach, that we have constraints for our players 653 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,120 that we just have to operate around. 654 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,200 To your point with the S&C stuff of the schedule, right? 655 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,160 Like they're just these things. And so, OK, so how can we make 656 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,400 this activity just a little bit more alive, a little bit more 657 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,480 real? We've actually talked to one of 658 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,240 my pictures, his fall global intention he shared with me is 659 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:22,880 he wanted to learn to read hitters better so that he could 660 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,760 call more pitches on his own. So we've started to do that and 661 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,840 one of his homework assignments, he's going to do it, I think 662 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,160 this next Thursday is he has to give a presentation to our 663 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,120 pitching staff on just the basics of helping our entirety 664 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,240 of our staff. How do you read hitters? 665 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:39,520 Like what are the basic things that you can look at? 666 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,040 Basically like a one-on-one level. 667 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,360 I've wanted him to think through that. 668 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,920 So then hopefully he's almost studying at a 2O13O1 to get 669 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:51,280 prepared for that, but in light of that, you know, trying to 670 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,920 connect to those types of things in all of the environments that 671 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,720 he's embedded in so that he can have better opportunities with a 672 00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:02,720 half bat. And so from there, our coaching 673 00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:05,040 staff, we had a conversation getting back to the half that 674 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,480 is, we want to create a menu of behavior for batters, both for 675 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,360 our pitchers and our batters of like what you could do in the 676 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,200 box to start to communicate something. 677 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,720 So, you know, could you change stances? 678 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:22,080 Could you, you know, as the balls coming in, could you be 679 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,000 farther off, farther off the plate, back of the box, front of 680 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,120 the box? So that then when we kind of 681 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,560 start them with this, that that that half of that training might 682 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,240 actually even for our hitters, be more exploratory. 683 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,320 Like, hey, I don't know, why don't you just hitting different 684 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,840 stances, swing in different ways, lunge in different ways. 685 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,040 Like you were saying at the beginning that it's less of 686 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,000 practicing the right thing, but more of an exploratory activity. 687 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,960 I think that could be pretty cool for hitters as well. 688 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,040 And it's really going to help us as pitchers because it's like 689 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,040 the whole point of this guy's bullpen, let's say, is, hey, I 690 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,040 want you to connect to his behavior. 691 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,920 Where is that in the box, the information you're getting from 692 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,880 his swings, the way his body's interacting. 693 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,720 So I think if there's something there too, that we're going to 694 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:06,800 go off his presentation to kind of build our own basic menu of 695 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,760 behavior for a batter that I hope will, again, how can we 696 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,960 take these things that are a little bit more static and just 697 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,920 make them a little bit more alive, engaging, variable, 698 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,840 adaptable, all those different things. 699 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:19,760 So I think that's really important. 700 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,120 Yeah, for sure. And then back to the point you 701 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,680 made, like if we're using the half bat stand in more than 50 702 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,520 percent, 50% of the time, like, yeah, that's too much. 703 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,360 And the way we did it was like, it was like for maybe 3 to 4 704 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,720 weeks and then they got 3 full months of live at bats. 705 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,400 So it was like kind of transitioning to it. 706 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,360 But the cool thing you talk about variability is it was like 707 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,560 every three pitches it was a new batter. 708 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,360 So they had a new batter to read every three or so pitches, which 709 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,080 I think is very similar to a game, right? 710 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,040 Every two to five pitches you're getting a new guy and you're 711 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,400 having to like adjust your, you know what you're paying 712 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,800 attention to, adjust your intentions is a lefty versus 713 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,680 righty. And it was like we had a lot of 714 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,080 fun with it with a certain guys that were bought into, like, I 715 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,080 don't necessarily care about strikes, but make the batter 716 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,080 move and then see what opportunities open up. 717 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,080 Like watch their body language. They're not swinging. 718 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,520 But man, this guy, anytime you throw him inside, he gets really 719 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,040 frustrated. Like there was a guy that said, 720 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,080 Hey, can you throw one down the middle, please? 721 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,560 I was like, are you kidding? Like, no. 722 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,800 And so I told the guy like, you're throwing inside this 723 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,920 entire time, make him uncomfortable. 724 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,040 And so it was just, it's just kind of cool. 725 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,560 Like, hey, you know that when you face in the spring, no, he 726 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,120 doesn't like the inside. So there you go. 727 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,720 Because a lot of the guys that we coach, they play against each 728 00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:45,360 other. So it's just like, well, there's 729 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,800 your opportunity. So it's a lot of learning about 730 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,000 hitters. What would you prefer, Moyem? 731 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,240 Let's put it in the hitting one because that's your, that's 732 00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:55,400 where you're at. Would you prefer a guy just with 733 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,120 like this raw EV number but maybe he struggles a little bit 734 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,800 Skill. Or would you prefer the 735 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,240 opposite, like a skillful hitter and you got to figure out how to 736 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,280 put a little EV on him, figure out help help him hit the ball 737 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,040 harder? You know, I, I'm glad you kind 738 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,480 of bring this up because I, I wanted to get back to the 739 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,160 initial jumping off point because I don't, I, I, I want to 740 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,320 explore like, OK, what would you rather recruit? 741 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,240 What would you rather, you know, bring in? 742 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,680 And I'm going to kind of defend like you kind of need a, a 743 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:31,080 certain floor because you know, as we were talking about before, 744 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,960 like a two year versus A4 year, I only have so much 745 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,880 developmental window. I can only reasonably expect to 746 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,120 raise the floor only so much, you know. 747 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:50,520 And so I think having a, having guys hit a certain threshold is, 748 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,720 is key to being like, OK, you need to hit a certain threshold 749 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:57,240 and then also have, you know, a certain level of skill. 750 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,840 I actually think it though, it's easier to develop the the Velo 751 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,000 than it is to develop the skill side of it. 752 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:11,640 It just takes so many more. I want to say like you need a 753 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:16,960 lot more of specific types of reps that are harder to get to 754 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,320 develop the skill just based upon logistics. 755 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,720 And like the the more complex nature of what actually develops 756 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:29,320 skill, you know, being able to to hit all sorts of different 757 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,640 types of pitches done in different sequences out of a 758 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,120 live hand. Those are reps that are are hard 759 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:41,920 to come by in the offseason unless you have a good, you 760 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,000 know, developmental system globally as a team. 761 00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:49,040 Like I'm not just talking to hitters, like I'm talking the 762 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,440 pitchers and hitters are like their development is, is in 763 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,440 tandem together. If you don't have that, I think 764 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,280 it's it's harder to develop the skill of contactability. 765 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,160 I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's just it's more 766 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,960 challenging. Whereas to develop bat speed, 767 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,320 literally you can do that in your garage with AT, you know. 768 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:17,560 So there's, you know, I, I think though going back to though the, 769 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:22,280 the whole dichotomy though of OK, developing Velo versus 770 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,160 developing skill. I think going back to that 771 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,560 though, is the transferability. Yeah, I can be in my garage, you 772 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,280 know, swinging super fast off the tee or off of flips or 773 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,280 whatever it is. This is about to go off on the 774 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,120 fact that the, the under load bats or the training bats are 775 00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:42,600 not designed for hitting real baseballs. 776 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,600 That blew my mind. It moving game speed, that blew 777 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,520 my mind when we, when we got a hold of some. 778 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,640 So then that that exacerbates the problem further, you know, 779 00:42:54,760 --> 00:43:01,200 And so I think that's where the, the transferability of like the 780 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,760 skill, But I think that that comes back to like we, we as 781 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,640 coaches need to be better. You know, at the end of the day, 782 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,360 it really comes down to your skill level, you know, cuz we 783 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,280 were just at the showcase yesterday and our head coach, 784 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:23,360 you know, told the players like, you know, in talking with other 785 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,880 coaches, they're basically, you know, said something to the 786 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,880 effect of like bad coaches recruit showcase players, you 787 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,520 know, versus the, the more skilled coaches are going to 788 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,240 look at more of the complete player. 789 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:42,160 You know, the twins just cut, you know, 5 scout scouts from 790 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,680 their staff and people are like, yeah, what is what do scouts do? 791 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,960 You know, we can just use all the metrics and it's like, yeah. 792 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,160 But if you talk to any scouts, they're not, they're looking at 793 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,080 the radar gun the majority of the time. 794 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:55,640 That's not what they're there for. 795 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,560 That's not why you send a scout to go watch a player. 796 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,200 You send a scout to, to go watch all the things that the metrics 797 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,400 don't, don't pick up. Like how do they interact with 798 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,920 their teammates? How do they behave, you know, 799 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,960 when something doesn't go their way, when you know they're 800 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,680 getting hit around or they have a call go against them. 801 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,600 Like all these things that you know, you're, you're not 802 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:23,080 measuring with a radar gun, you know, with the track man or with 803 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,880 a, with a, with Hawkeye or whatever. 804 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,760 You know, these are the, the other elements. 805 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,320 And so that's where I think the, the, the, the skill side of 806 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,680 this, you know, as coaches becomes really, really 807 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,720 important. Can you blend these these things 808 00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:41,600 and understand how all these things work together? 809 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,080 What's interesting to me is I'm trying to rack my brain for a 810 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:56,320 kid that I coached in my past, who I would qualify as low, you 811 00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,280 know, low velocity, if you will, and, and highly skilled. 812 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:05,360 And, and I think part of it might just be you have to decide 813 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:11,720 what level you're at, you know, and to your point, boy, and 814 00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:15,280 where, where's that floor? Because I, I might answer the 815 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,560 question that like, which one do I want? 816 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,520 Probably both right now because I have my mind made-up, you 817 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:26,280 know, I, I'm intrigued with the guy, the guys who throw really 818 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,720 hard and like we throw them in a ton of live environments. 819 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,480 I'm super intrigued as to whether or not we can develop 820 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,280 skill differently than others because I truly do believe that 821 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,400 we throw more lives than anybody else. 822 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:42,080 You know, like I think we had 44 practices during the spring and 823 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,680 had all but four of those. We threw lives that, you know, 824 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:51,000 during the competitive season. And, and so I'm intrigued with 825 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,320 that. Like I, my, my, my theory is 826 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,960 that like they'll get better at pitching and they have this raw 827 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:57,920 stuff. And so I'm intrigued with that. 828 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,720 But I also, you know, concur with you guys that I think that 829 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,800 the raw output you could get better AT. 830 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:11,640 And yet the floor piece, the genetic piece, the nonlinearity 831 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,200 of development of even just the raw output makes me nervous at 832 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:20,400 times, as well as just the acknowledgement of like, how 833 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,720 effective can we be if we're throwing all these lives? 834 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,520 You know, where is the, where is the tipping point to, to the 835 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,520 amount of decontextualized training that one needs to do to 836 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,080 your point to throw into a net really hard to just expose the 837 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,480 body to speed. The problem is it was kind of 838 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,000 like a running joke. You know, my brother's he, he's 839 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,600 a head coach at A at a college and, and, and he would text me 840 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:49,440 and his, his other, one of his former who, who works in the 841 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,000 twins organization. He, he would text us and like 842 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,240 say, oh, hey, here's this guy with his video from this, you 843 00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:00,240 know, Academy who, you know, 88 to 90. 844 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,040 We faced him today 82 to 84, you know, nine runs in three 845 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:05,360 innings. Like it just kind of became a 846 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,840 running joke. It's like, because you do so 847 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,640 much decontextualized training and decontextual like I'm, I'm 848 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,480 when I talk to recruits now who prospective recruits are 849 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,400 recruiting presentation, I compare throwing bullpens to 850 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,080 targets like Sean compares doing cone drills. 851 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,560 Like I think that that I think they're kind of the same, You 852 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,440 know, like I think not facing a live hitter is, is about the 853 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,760 same as a football player doing cone drills. 854 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:31,840 I really do. I think they're just, they're 855 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,280 totally different skills. And I and and my evidence is how 856 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,560 often you can be terrible in a bullpen and great in a game or 857 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:39,880 vice versa. Awesome. 858 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:41,280 The bullpen terrible in the game. 859 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,040 I think that they're totally different things. 860 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,960 So I fight and wrestle with that too. 861 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:50,000 Like how much can I really grow somebody's velocity as well as 862 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,560 just the the reality of of that piece of it. 863 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,520 Like the how, how much decontextualized training do I 864 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,320 need to do in order to see a bump? 865 00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,280 And how much of that will transfer? 866 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,760 Will I just get more transfer if I just throw lives And the 867 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,120 intention of those lives is velocity and velocity only Now I 868 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,120 can't throw weighted balls in those lives. 869 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,120 Maybe I can, maybe at some point I'll start using like, you know, 870 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,040 four and a half, 5 1/2 ounce balls to just expose them to 871 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,640 something different. But I feel like that's where I'm 872 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,240 struggling a little bit where I might actually lean at times 873 00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:22,560 just with the way we have crafted our environment to the 874 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,360 guy who has a little bit more raw stuff. 875 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,760 Because I wonder my, my theory is like, I wonder if we can get 876 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,960 him better at the skill side of it because we do so many lives, 877 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,200 but I'm not really sure if that's if that's going to be 878 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:41,560 true at all. I wish I had more of the, the I 879 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:47,360 couldn't find my raw data, but you know, for example, I think 880 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:53,440 it's easier to develop velocity than it is to develop skill. 881 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,800 I mean, because we we just some of it was we did have some 882 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:04,280 better players like the kid who hit 114 exit Velo in game. 883 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,000 He's just he was new to the team and he already hit the ball 884 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,040 really hard when he got here. He didn't hit 114 though in the 885 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,000 fall. So there is that. 886 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,440 I mean, he was hitting it like one O 8 or something like that, 887 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:18,600 like he was hitting the ball hard. 888 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,440 It was it was already north of 100. 889 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:27,200 But you can see that like on our average exit velocity did rise 890 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,520 and even the kid who had the lowest exit velocity, because 891 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,840 the thing that we changed one is I did more weighted bats this 892 00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,800 past year and I did, we were more consistent with our 893 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:44,040 rotational work. So you combine those two things, 894 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:51,320 guys, just motor output ability I think was better this year. 895 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,480 And also, you know, and, and on the skill side, I guess it's 896 00:49:55,480 --> 00:50:00,080 hard to say like we scored fewer runs, but it's because we also 897 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,280 had 44 less hit by pitches. We had 7 fewer walks. 898 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,280 But I think that 7 fewer walks is so minimal that it like you 899 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,520 can, you can just kind of chalk that up to being like, you know, 900 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,720 granted, the kid who hit it 114, he didn't, he didn't walk very 901 00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:18,280 much. So you have that those two 902 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,120 things, but it's surprising with one guy only walking a a handful 903 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:26,920 of times, you're only missing seven walks for the previous 904 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,800 year. But so with that being said, 905 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,800 though, like our, our, our other numbers were, were up, but I 906 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,480 don't know how to really evaluate. 907 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,080 Do we really get that much better? 908 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,160 Because like our, our batting average was only slightly up, 909 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,040 you know, and how much does that have to do with the, the level 910 00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:45,160 of competition that you're playing? 911 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,120 Granted, we did actually play a better competition this past 912 00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,960 season that we have in the past, but at the same point, like, I 913 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:56,120 think that's where it becomes harder to measure how well did 914 00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,280 you improve the skill in certain in certain facets, you know, 915 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:01,880 just looking at their traditional stats. 916 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:07,240 I know Kyle, we've talked about, you know, how well is it or how 917 00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:11,400 good is it or how much value is there in comparing stats from 918 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,200 season to season because the context is, is different. 919 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:20,280 But at the same point, like I can look at this and see like, 920 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:27,080 OK, I have the numbers between guys between two seasons. 921 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,280 I can look at their, their, their exit velocity of their Max 922 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,400 and their average. And I could see that by and 923 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,400 large, everybody's went up this year versus the the previous, 924 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,120 the previous year, even looking fall to to spring. 925 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,240 And so that's where I just think it's it's it's just easier to do 926 00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:48,840 that now getting it to show up on in in game, I think is the 927 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:50,720 other element. And that's where I was 928 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,560 pleasantly surprised that it was showing up in game because we 929 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,880 had a kid all offseason granite. Now this has to do with a little 930 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:02,880 bit of of our equipment, but off the hit tracks, this one kid was 931 00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:08,080 living 75, you know, 75 maybe hit a 83 and then one time in 932 00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,600 live hit a 909193 and you're like, I don't know, is that 933 00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,000 real? Because it like, I watch you in 934 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,480 training all the time, not hitting the ball hard. 935 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:21,080 Then we get into the season and of his like 7 at bats and his 936 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,520 four, four hits that he got, like three of them were 90 plus, 937 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,200 you know, and I think there were a couple of 90 threes in there. 938 00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,560 You're like, well, I guess that 93 was real, you know? 939 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:38,320 And so I, I think that's where for, for me, like, OK, is this 940 00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,760 transferring to the game? And that was the one kid that 941 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:46,480 that had that, that got that hit the, the ball that well in the 942 00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,400 limited opportunities he had, He was, he was one of the few guys 943 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,000 that got in my cage for short box and wanted a bunch of extra 944 00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,520 reps. And so I look at like, yes, the 945 00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:03,560 skill side is, is I think harder to develop because it's, it's, 946 00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,920 it's way, way less linear. Like when it comes to strength 947 00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:13,640 and conditioning and improving the motor output, it, it's more 948 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:18,720 linear partially because like we've done it more like, for 949 00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:22,840 example, Bonderchuck, he is, he's developed a way to, you 950 00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,400 know, track the dose response and how the body adapts to the 951 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,720 doses that you that you give it from a training standpoint. 952 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:35,680 And so we have some information and studies looking at, OK, if I 953 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,920 implement this type of program after X number of weeks, what 954 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,240 does, what does the output look like? 955 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,640 You know, how, how much, how much improvement do we see or 956 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,320 whatever, what's the response? You don't, there's not as much 957 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,080 research as far as, and plus there's a lot of confounding 958 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,520 factors when it comes to developing the actual skill 959 00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:58,760 component of it. Because, you know, going back 960 00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,480 to, I think we might have mentioned this before, but that 961 00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,720 your mental state plays a huge role. 962 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,640 Your mental emotional state plays a huge role in the, the 963 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,400 skill that you're able to express and the way that you're 964 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,600 able to connect with the environment, all that sort of 965 00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,880 stuff. And so I, I do think it's, it's 966 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:20,800 more challenging, but at the same point, this is to me where, 967 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:25,880 you know, the, the value of a coach becomes so, so important 968 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,560 and vital and what they, what you can do. 969 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,800 Let me ask this question. Do you think that, you know, 970 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:40,280 velocity is more linear because it actually is or because our 971 00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,360 systems are currently set up that way? 972 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,880 And it's probably a little bit more nuanced and, and, and 973 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,960 mixed, but hear me out here. Like, I don't know that you'll 974 00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,880 go to a single program in the country and you'll roll out to 975 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,160 practice and they're just going to start playing, right? 976 00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,640 Like they're going to do drills, they're going to have machines, 977 00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,840 they're going to have cages. It's going to be a lot of and, 978 00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,480 and I don't, I don't say this poorly because I think that 979 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,280 there's, there's a purpose to it. 980 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,440 I don't think it's fully decontextualized practice, but 981 00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,400 it is right? It's not the real thing. 982 00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:17,200 And I'm, I'm curious if somehow the system was set up or we're 983 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,040 in a, you know, 40 years ago where we don't have all those 984 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,000 fancy things and the only thing you can do to get hitting 985 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,840 practice is for kids to throw to each other or you're just 986 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,880 playing in the backyard. Do we would we say the same 987 00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:32,480 thing if we were in an alternate universe where the norm was just 988 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,480 that you played the game more? Would would we go? 989 00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,040 Yeah, man, it's still so much easier because that's all you 990 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,800 do. Whereas our current system is 991 00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,840 academies that are a little harder to do that live 992 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,120 interaction practices where you go to every convention and 993 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,640 they're going to tell you all the drills that you do that are, 994 00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,120 you know, decomposed. That then will apply like pretty 995 00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:56,480 much our entire system seems to be built up to lend itself to 996 00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:01,000 the more linear model, which we're acknowledging dynamical 997 00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:02,480 systems theory is pushing back again. 998 00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,240 So any thoughts on that? It was just one question that 999 00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:07,760 came to mind as you were talking about the linearity, the more 1000 00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,360 linearity, which I agree with actually of velocity, but does 1001 00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:11,600 it have anything to do with our systems? 1002 00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,800 I think so. I mean that's that's where these 1003 00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,680 things have been kind of tried already, right? 1004 00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:21,600 There's a ton of information out there. 1005 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:26,880 I mean, when I think about it, most of the time it within any 1006 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,520 community that people are just going to they, they more often 1007 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,120 want to do what they know is going to work and what they've 1008 00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,360 seen other people do. And so this has been this model 1009 00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,880 has already been developed, you know, with people like Driveline 1010 00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:41,680 kind of pioneered it a little bit. 1011 00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:46,560 Not not just them, but I think like Texas baseball ranch and a 1012 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,680 few others, right, have kind of pioneered this model of 1013 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,080 development from from an Academy standpoint. 1014 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,560 You know, I even think on the SNC side, like Eric Cressy, 1015 00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:01,600 right, like all the the work that they did to, you know, make 1016 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:06,640 lifting important and then driveline, you know, showing 1017 00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,840 that you can develop velocity, that it's not just a genetic 1018 00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,480 God-given thing. And so I think it's open the 1019 00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:17,560 window for for, you know, people to be able to copy that model. 1020 00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,560 I mean, I think this is the same thing, you know, could be set of 1021 00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,360 like, you know, Tanner's situation, both the fact of 1022 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:25,520 being in a facility, but also like the travel teams, like 1023 00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:30,120 travel teams are everywhere. People are replicating that even 1024 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,840 to like driveline's model is based off of Eric Cressy's 1025 00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,360 model, you know, from a business standpoint. 1026 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:40,640 So right, like people, people are are looking to like 1027 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,760 replicate success that other people have had. 1028 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:49,360 And so that's where I do think on the skill side there, there's 1029 00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:53,040 this, you know, what I think the point of this podcast is, is 1030 00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,240 that there's this open window for the development of skill now 1031 00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:57,920 at a level that we haven't seen before. 1032 00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,760 But at one point in time, the low hanging fruit was the 1033 00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:06,040 development of the physical side of things because I think it was 1034 00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,480 before actually, because you know, when I was at Missouri 1035 00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,840 State, the comment was is like, you know, we used to just 1036 00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:16,480 scrimmage all the time. Like that was fall was just a 1037 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,600 ton of scrimmaging. And I think you've seen a move 1038 00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:25,640 away from that towards more of a developmental mindset that is, 1039 00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:27,920 you know, compartmentalizing all these things. 1040 00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:35,240 And, and so now there's this big open window again to, to develop 1041 00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,320 the skill side, because everybody now, generally 1042 00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:41,080 speaking, understands the importance of the development of 1043 00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,960 the physical aspects of it. Because I mean, again, if you, 1044 00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:49,240 if you don't, if you neglect that, you're going to get left 1045 00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,880 behind like the physical side of things because it's it, it's 1046 00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:58,040 almost ubiquitous, ubiquitous. But at the same point, I do want 1047 00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:02,000 to say like on the on the Velo side, I think, you know, a lot 1048 00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:06,640 of people just focus on maybe the weight room to develop the 1049 00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,960 velocity, You know, and I think there is a you gotta, it's not 1050 00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,640 just that because the weight room won't always develop 1051 00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:15,720 velocity for everybody. Everything's on a bell curve, 1052 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,920 right? And so I think as coaches, we 1053 00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,240 need to like this is again, going back to like, I think 1054 00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:27,000 periodization is really a helpful tool because it, the way 1055 00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,160 that I look at it, it's just a planning, It's a way to plan out 1056 00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:33,080 your year and start to think about like, which are what are 1057 00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:36,160 the different phases? And how can we work in, you 1058 00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,280 know, these different pieces? Because if you, I'm thinking 1059 00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,920 about it like using like a, a nutrition analogy or a meal 1060 00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,000 analogy, how are you going to get in all the, the necessary 1061 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:49,200 nutrition that you need within a meal, you know, and start to 1062 00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:53,160 think about like the overall athlete development in terms of 1063 00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,200 that, of like, how are you going to fit all these different 1064 00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,280 pieces in there? And, you know, what I've seen 1065 00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:02,560 from, from other, other people looking in at their, their 1066 01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:06,440 programs and stuff is that often times like they're missing some 1067 01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,120 of these either macro or micronutrients within their, 1068 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,760 their program development or their player development. 1069 01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,000 You know, maybe they have a lifting in there. 1070 01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,240 But they don't have a Velo component to what they're doing. 1071 01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:27,040 There's no or or maybe there's they're missing more of like the 1072 01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:31,400 skill, the representativeness is missing, right. 1073 01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:35,080 So like trying to lay out like, OK, what are all the components 1074 01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:39,520 that they go into this that make up a, you know, a healthy 1075 01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:41,840 player? And how do we layer in and make 1076 01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:45,400 sure we're we're touching in touching on all these qualities 1077 01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:48,960 that a player needs? And that's where periodization, 1078 01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:54,080 I think really is useful because that like all those types of 1079 01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,840 things are layered into what periodization is. 1080 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,000 You know, I was looking at, you know, one, I was talking with a 1081 01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:04,080 track coach from college and they just simply had a way of 1082 01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,480 tracking like how frequently did they touch on different 1083 01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,640 qualities, you know, and be like, OK, you know, at what 1084 01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:15,640 level were we implementing this quality? 1085 01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,920 You know, was it a high, high volume, low volume, no volume, 1086 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:21,520 you know, and like how long ago do we touch on this? 1087 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,480 Like all those types of things start to become, I think 1088 01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,200 important into like, how do we develop, develop players? 1089 01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,880 Like you want to have a well balanced diet? 1090 01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,080 What? Have you seen anything tenor on 1091 01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:47,000 your side from just that, that aspect of how you are developing 1092 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,640 based on the time of the year? Because obviously you just 1093 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:53,160 alluded to it, you know, maybe seeing a kid for a summer, just 1094 01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,080 a few months, maybe staying in contact with them through their 1095 01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:58,560 competitive season and you're having to work in conjunction. 1096 01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,720 How have you tried to balance those things? 1097 01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,320 Yeah, it is tough. It's, you know, it's, it's a, 1098 01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:11,160 it's a fun problem to try and attack, but it's it, to me, it 1099 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:15,040 always goes back to the athlete. Like what is your lowest hanging 1100 01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:17,720 fruit? Let's attack that and then 1101 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:21,360 sprinkle in everything else that we need to expose you to. 1102 01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,160 And then it's like once that lowest hanging fruit is taken 1103 01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:28,680 care of, like, OK, what can we add more of from your, I guess, 1104 01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:33,960 you know, going off of Boyam's nutrition thing, like what other 1105 01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,920 macro or micronutrients do we need to add more of now that 1106 01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,400 we've taken care of the protein, right? 1107 01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:44,240 Like what else do we need more of now that we've taken care of 1108 01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,440 that? I don't know, I don't know. 1109 01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:49,720 I don't know if I look at things through like, are they 1110 01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,960 challenging or are they not? It's just something that I'm 1111 01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:58,000 constantly trying to figure out. I guess our winter programs, 1112 01:02:58,000 --> 01:02:59,760 it's a lot. I don't want to say easier, but 1113 01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:06,560 we have 5 months with them. So I don't do the SNC for, for 1114 01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,680 those guys in our winter programs, our, our strength 1115 01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,040 staff takes care of it and we try to communicate with each 1116 01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,320 other the best we can of like, hey, this is what we see. 1117 01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,160 This is how we're programming. But as far as like the skill 1118 01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:21,640 side and the throwing side of things, it's, it's a lot easier 1119 01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:25,280 to touch on everything just simply because we have more 1120 01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,400 time. And when you have less time with 1121 01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,920 an athlete, it's just like, what's the lowest hanging fruit? 1122 01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:33,240 Sprinkle everything else in and it's less of a periodization 1123 01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:37,400 thing and just more of what do you need and again, sprinkle in 1124 01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:43,040 every other stimulus or whatever else they need to work on. 1125 01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,520 It's kind of a vague answer but I just feel like it's so 1126 01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,800 different with every athlete. Like I had one that just simply 1127 01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:53,920 needed strength and needed to get their spine to not be a 2 by 1128 01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:55,760 4. I had another guy that needed to 1129 01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:57,920 get over the fear of throwing a change up. 1130 01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:02,240 I had another guy that had a really good lower body as far as 1131 01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,760 strength and power goes, but the upper body just, it just wasn't 1132 01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:06,640 there. It was interesting. 1133 01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:08,400 It's that I don't see that very often. 1134 01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,080 So it was like, OK, we're going to hit upper body strength, 1135 01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:14,720 lower body power and a little bit of strength there and we're 1136 01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:16,920 just going to see it and see how it goes for the first couple 1137 01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,600 weeks and if we see good things, we'll keep going. 1138 01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:24,120 So it's just every athlete just has something different that 1139 01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:26,960 needs to be attacked. I've had somewhere heavy lifting 1140 01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,880 doesn't work. So it's a lot of ballistic 1141 01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:33,600 training, a lot of plyometrics, a lot of power speed, you know, 1142 01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,160 just moving things fast. And we saw results from that. 1143 01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:39,840 So it's just really understanding the athlete what 1144 01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,600 they feel they need, because usually I don't want to say that 1145 01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:44,680 they're right all the time, but they're usually on the right 1146 01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:46,720 track. Like they're not so wrong where 1147 01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,400 it's like, wow, that's way off. It's like, no, that's that 1148 01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:51,920 probably means something to you and it's probably valuable to 1149 01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:56,440 you because you know your body. So I don't know, I hope that 1150 01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:00,760 answers your question, but. It's helpful and I think we've 1151 01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:04,400 all kind of alluded to it at different points, but one of the 1152 01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:08,000 challenges within this conversation of like velocity 1153 01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:14,520 versus skill development is it feels like if a guy's already 1154 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,280 done something velocity wise and you just develop the skill, 1155 01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:19,240 we're all acknowledging that that's challenging getting the 1156 01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:23,000 environments, but there's a downside risk to velocity 1157 01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,960 development. We we've alluded to the skill 1158 01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:29,440 side of it, you know, the transferability, certainly 1159 01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,400 injury. Is there anything that, boy, you 1160 01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,000 and I talked a little bit about this just as we were prepping, 1161 01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:36,920 like this was the thing that you really wrote down. 1162 01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,400 Like you only have so many eggs you can throw in a basket. 1163 01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,320 Where would you go with like the downside risk of like having to 1164 01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,600 go, yeah, he's skillful and we have to go all in on velocity. 1165 01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,080 Where do you see the downside risk coming in and in that 1166 01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:55,360 approach? I mean, I think for, for what 1167 01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:58,240 you're describing there, I think it becomes a question of like 1168 01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:01,240 what does the player want? You know, if they're wanting to 1169 01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:04,840 go play at the next level, they may, they may need to be able to 1170 01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:08,840 hit a certain floor in order to get to that, that next spot. 1171 01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:13,120 And so I think that's where it can be challenging. 1172 01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:16,880 And I've, I've seen it too, where, you know, there's what we 1173 01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,240 need for our program and then there's what you need for you to 1174 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:25,240 move on, you know, and those two things don't always align, you 1175 01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:28,840 know, and you know, and, and that makes it tough. 1176 01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:32,760 But at, at the same point, I do think it's important for coaches 1177 01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:35,840 to think about, OK, given their time period with the athlete, 1178 01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:40,680 you know, in, in, in our context of, of a A2 and a four year, 1179 01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,640 there should be a window in which you can develop these 1180 01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:46,320 things. And you have to, you know, not 1181 01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:50,080 because I, I do think some coaches are so tied to certain 1182 01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:56,120 ideas of like what they're, I want to say periodization, but 1183 01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:59,400 like, you know, what they're offseason looks like or they're 1184 01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,640 different phases of the year look like that. 1185 01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:06,000 There's no flexibility, like it's just a one-size-fits-all. 1186 01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,160 And it's not to say that there, you know, some coaches won't, 1187 01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:14,240 you know, depart from that for but it's like such unique cases. 1188 01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:18,160 It's like maybe we need to think about this more at an individual 1189 01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,920 level of like, you know, instead of it just being blanket 1190 01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:24,400 statements of like, you know, everybody's doing AV lo, you 1191 01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:28,200 know, program and doing pull downs to the other extreme of 1192 01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:32,240 like everybody is doing a shutdown, you know, for, you 1193 01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:34,880 know, one to two to three months or whatever. 1194 01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:39,360 And so I think you have to begin to think about that as far as 1195 01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:43,920 like, you know, because to me this is going back to like if we 1196 01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,720 think about periodization on the pitching side, you know, if 1197 01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:50,040 we're talking about like injury risk, I think there's things you 1198 01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:53,080 can do to mitigate your injury risk that's going to mitigate 1199 01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:56,640 injury both not for development, the development of velocity, but 1200 01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:02,680 also longevity for the season, right? 1201 01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:08,120 So if you do it right, if you build up the work capacity for a 1202 01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:12,040 player to do Velo, you know when you build it so that they have 1203 01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:17,640 more capacity to do a lot more higher intensity training. 1204 01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:23,399 Then if you do that correctly and you periodize in deloads and 1205 01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:27,000 whatnot, you should set them up to be in a good position when it 1206 01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:31,080 comes to the season to have greater capacity and workload 1207 01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:37,200 and being built up to be able to handle the workload for for the 1208 01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:40,319 season. Because I think for me, this is 1209 01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:45,200 where I'm not the biggest proponent of shutdowns unless 1210 01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:49,200 you have a big long window to on ramp. 1211 01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:54,399 But then OK, you on this to me is like the traditional mode is 1212 01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:57,160 most guys will just on ramp guys for the season. 1213 01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,160 OK, great. When did you work on any sort of 1214 01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:02,560 skill? Because when you're on ramping, 1215 01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:05,920 it's very hard to work on skill at the same time as on ramping. 1216 01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:09,600 I'm not saying you can't do it. You you absolutely can, But most 1217 01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:13,600 people don't think that much about like how to blend the two 1218 01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:15,120 together. It's one or the other. 1219 01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:21,160 It's kind of binary. So you know, that's where you 1220 01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,479 have to ask that question of like, OK, when you're doing your 1221 01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:25,120 planning and you're sitting down, you're looking, you're 1222 01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:28,800 like, OK, I'm going to on ramp guys for, you know, the next two 1223 01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:30,120 months. And then we're going to start 1224 01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:34,560 doing our pre season where we need to get guys built up, which 1225 01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,399 to me is still an on ramp built up to be able to, you know, have 1226 01:09:37,399 --> 01:09:41,359 a pitch count of, you know, 70 to 80, you know, so we can go 1227 01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:43,760 start playing games. All right, in that whole 1228 01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:46,080 process, where are you? When are you working on 1229 01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,840 developing pitches? When are you working on, you 1230 01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:51,720 know, increasing a guy's velocity? 1231 01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:55,200 If the if the lifting program isn't doing that for you, you 1232 01:09:55,200 --> 01:10:00,200 know, like all those things kind of play in of like, OK, so 1233 01:10:00,440 --> 01:10:03,880 again, where you know, are you addressing these different 1234 01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:07,760 components of the the skill and you know, OK, great, you know, 1235 01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:11,120 you're doing lives, but what are you working on holding runners? 1236 01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:16,720 When are you working on, you know, being able to get out, you 1237 01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:19,440 know, fielding your position, whatever, like other game 1238 01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:25,160 situations like all that has to be kind of worked into to what 1239 01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:27,920 you're doing, going back to that whole well balanced diet 1240 01:10:28,440 --> 01:10:35,000 analogy. It makes me think I I when I was 1241 01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,120 at high school. I'd like to do the same thing 1242 01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:41,960 here so I can better understand velocity growth and, and I'm 1243 01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,800 more looking for normative ranges. 1244 01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,200 So in Iowa, we, we play summer baseball. 1245 01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,400 So I would actually get 8th graders every year. 1246 01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,960 And what I would do is I would write their average velocity 1247 01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:56,040 just in a simple excel sheet. And then I'd list every single 1248 01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:58,720 kid, even the kids that didn't stay with us, even the kids that 1249 01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:00,680 quit after their 9th or 10th grade year. 1250 01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:04,000 And the point was, is I would do the math right and I just have 1251 01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:07,000 some equations and I'd go from one year to the other and I'd 1252 01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,160 say, what was their growth over year to year? 1253 01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:12,760 And then I'd have a column for all of our, you know, here's our 1254 01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:15,160 8th to 9th graders. Here's the each person's 1255 01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:17,040 average. And then I'd start to do, you 1256 01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:19,480 know, mean median things like that. 1257 01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:21,880 And I do that for the whole career because what I was, what 1258 01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:26,600 I wanted to know was what's just normative growth for an eighth 1259 01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:29,400 grader, you know, from their 8th to 9th grade year? 1260 01:11:29,480 --> 01:11:32,960 And what are we doing that might be benefiting from that? 1261 01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,600 Like, and, and who are the guys who had higher levels of growth 1262 01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:37,640 and why was that? You know, I remember I had one 1263 01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:40,760 kid that I think he went, I think it was his sophomore, 1264 01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:45,120 junior year, He had, he had a huge spike, something like 6-8 1265 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:47,000 or 10 miles an hour. But it was just because he 1266 01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,720 started lifting, you know, And so it would start to answer the 1267 01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:53,480 questions for us in terms of like what what are the things 1268 01:11:53,480 --> 01:11:56,120 like what's just natural human progression? 1269 01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:58,120 Because they're just getting like, I'm seeing some of our 1270 01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:00,520 sophomores throw and I'm like, oh, he doesn't look like a 1271 01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:04,120 freshman anymore, you know, and oh, his first gameplay like he 1272 01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,280 throws a little harder. How much was that us and how 1273 01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:07,800 much is that just him growing up? 1274 01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:12,560 And so I do you, have you guys done anything like that, Pruitt? 1275 01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:14,880 Like where have you guys? Do you have any internal systems 1276 01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,960 that allow you to cause again, you have such a huge data set 1277 01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,280 and you're working with such a wide swath of people. 1278 01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:22,640 Do you have any systems that help you understand anything 1279 01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:27,560 like that? It wasn't really a system, but 1280 01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:33,520 it was a conversation amongst coaches at my last job and we 1281 01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,240 were just talking like, because we would get all these athletes 1282 01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:41,000 that are just like expecting these huge again, from freshman 1283 01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,400 in high school to potential pro guys or even pro guys. 1284 01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:47,120 Like all the, a lot of these athletes are expecting these 1285 01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:50,760 huge velocity jumps like within 5 or 6 months. 1286 01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,080 And we're all kind of experiencing this. 1287 01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:55,320 We're talking about it. And like someone asked the 1288 01:12:55,320 --> 01:13:00,840 question like what, what are we finding is the average velocity? 1289 01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:02,520 Like what are we like what is it? 1290 01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:08,240 And when I think the consensus was when you sold out for just 1291 01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:12,440 velocity, if you took about the average that we didn't actually 1292 01:13:12,440 --> 01:13:15,600 do the math here, but just like thinking through it, it was a 1293 01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:20,320 half a mile an hour a month. Like that's just kind of what we 1294 01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:22,160 saw. And again, and that's selling 1295 01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:24,560 out for velocity. Are you going to have outliers 1296 01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,880 on both ends for sure? Are you going to have guys that 1297 01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:31,200 maybe they gain? And I have this happen. 1298 01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:35,520 He gained 12 miles an hour in a year, not because we sold out 1299 01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:38,360 for it, but he was a completely untrained individual. 1300 01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:40,680 So he gained 12 miles an hour in a year. 1301 01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:42,840 And then that next year he gained like 4. 1302 01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:50,280 So it's like again, wide range, but overall long term average of 1303 01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:54,480 a half a mile an hour a month is kind of what we we saw things 1304 01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:57,080 as. And at Mass we're fighting the 1305 01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:59,520 same thing and we're not even selling out for velocity. 1306 01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:03,840 It's like we are going to do as much skill work as we can in a 1307 01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:07,120 facility over the winter where we don't always have the ability 1308 01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:09,520 to go full context, but we're going to try, right. 1309 01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,400 There's always limitations. We'll do our best to do more and 1310 01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:15,400 we're fighting that. So these are 5 1/2 months. 1311 01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:20,960 We're averaging 3 miles an hour like gained without that being 1312 01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:24,120 the focus just simply from what we're doing. 1313 01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,840 So it's just worth for just finding that half mile an hour a 1314 01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:31,840 month or 6 miles an hour a year is like the norm. 1315 01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,680 And I don't know if you guys have found that at all or if it 1316 01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:37,880 make if you guys like would agree or disagree. 1317 01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:41,240 But like, that's just what I found and that's kind of how I 1318 01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:46,080 base success off of according to velocity, not, you know, but 1319 01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:48,800 like the guy wants to gain velocity of what's successful if 1320 01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:50,560 we're getting about a half a mile an hour a month. 1321 01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:54,040 I wonder too, how much that has to do with like the age group 1322 01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,920 that you're working with, right? Because you work with like such 1323 01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:59,880 a young, young athletes to, to high school. 1324 01:14:59,880 --> 01:15:03,440 I mean, that's where their peak growth window is like as far as 1325 01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:08,120 like maturity wise, like physical maturity. 1326 01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:11,400 And you know how much again, going back to like the hormones 1327 01:15:11,480 --> 01:15:15,320 piece like they have, they have such an advantage given all the 1328 01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:18,520 hormones that they have flowing naturally through their body. 1329 01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:24,120 Because what I've seen at least where I'm at and even to when I 1330 01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:27,120 did some velocity development, what was interesting to me in 1331 01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:31,280 the two years that I ran like kind of a driveline style of 1332 01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:36,120 velocity deal, I didn't really see actually that much gain in 1333 01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:37,840 velocity. Like pitching wise. 1334 01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:42,600 I mean, granite, our window was maybe 8 weeks. 1335 01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:49,120 But what I did see, I mean, I saw like from fall, fall to fall 1336 01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:51,800 an increase of like 1 to 2 miles an hour. 1337 01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:56,120 And then because, you know, at that time I didn't, we didn't, 1338 01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,000 we weren't tracking like we, we tracked now we didn't have 1339 01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:05,400 flight scope, but it seemed as though guys Velo didn't peak in 1340 01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,440 game until like midway through the season. 1341 01:16:08,440 --> 01:16:11,240 Once it started to warm up, we've been playing for a while. 1342 01:16:11,440 --> 01:16:15,520 Then guys numbers would would kind of pop up to, you know, 1343 01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:19,760 would would jump up like because we had one kid in the fall by 1344 01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:24,360 first year he was like 80 to 81. Then the next fall he was like, 1345 01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:28,560 he came in, he was like 83 and then somewhere in the spring he 1346 01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,280 hit 86. He was like 86, maybe 88. 1347 01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,440 Like that made sense from like just watching a move or 1348 01:16:34,440 --> 01:16:36,120 whatever. But like, you're just like, man, 1349 01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:38,840 why is everybody's Velo down? We like we're trying to develop 1350 01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:41,040 Velo. And I didn't really see an 1351 01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:44,080 amazing jump in Velo. You know, we had nobody hitting 1352 01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:45,960 nines or anything like that, right? 1353 01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:52,360 And so that I and even in, in our current, you know, system, 1354 01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:54,360 we had like a kid come in his Velo. 1355 01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:59,080 We had seen it up higher before, but he was basically like 78 to 1356 01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:04,960 83 ish, like, you know, when he's really on and it wasn't 1357 01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:08,600 until the spring and like halfway through the spring that 1358 01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:13,080 he was back up to 86, you know, and started sitting like 8045. 1359 01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:22,040 So I mean, that's where I wonder if like the Velo starts to level 1360 01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:25,560 off potentially once they get to college because of the fact 1361 01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:28,560 that, yes, they still have a lot of testosterone, but like it's 1362 01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:31,680 not I I wonder if it's starting to like it's starting to dip 1363 01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:35,200 from its peak, you know? And so we don't see necessarily 1364 01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:39,240 without the, in my opinion, without, you know, all the 1365 01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:42,640 supporting stimulus, we don't always see the, the consistent, 1366 01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:45,280 you know, rise. But I'm kind of curious, Kyle, 1367 01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:48,080 what, what you've seen with with your guys. 1368 01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:51,200 You know, obviously you're into year 2. 1369 01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:54,160 So it might take a couple more years to really get a, a feel 1370 01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:57,960 for, you know, the college guy and how he develops. 1371 01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:00,400 But I mean that I think to your point, Kyle, real quick before 1372 01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:04,960 you jump in, you do see that efficiency, you know, guys begin 1373 01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:08,760 to move smoother. That tends to to play a role. 1374 01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,920 So, you know, and also to to jump back a little bit. 1375 01:18:14,440 --> 01:18:17,600 I've also seen, you know, Tanner, to your point of like 1376 01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:19,880 not chasing Vilo, I've seen jumps in Vilo. 1377 01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:25,480 So in my opinion, if you layer in a really good on ramp and you 1378 01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:29,880 really build up their work capacity, often times that alone 1379 01:18:30,440 --> 01:18:32,040 unlocks Vilo for guys. Why? 1380 01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:35,000 Because now their body feels safe enough to actually give 1381 01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:41,320 full effort or they can sustain higher effort for longer. 1382 01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:46,520 So just by that alone, you can see jumps in Vilo. 1383 01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:52,480 And so I've, you know, doing a a long on ramp, I've seen guys. 1384 01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:56,560 My first one was seeing, and this was doing weighted balls, 1385 01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:59,960 by the way, for work capacity, not for Vilo. 1386 01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:09,440 I saw a kid go from like 8083 up to 87, topping out at 89, right. 1387 01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:13,480 So I think that's, that's where the the real like we, we need to 1388 01:19:13,480 --> 01:19:16,160 remember that on the developmental side, you know, 1389 01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:18,920 you don't have to always chase a certain quality to, to actually 1390 01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:24,200 improve that quality. It took me forever, but I found 1391 01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:27,160 it and I didn't do it my last year because I was leaving. 1392 01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:32,360 But this was what I would do is I would just have their 8th 1393 01:19:32,440 --> 01:19:34,960 through senior year. I'd say, you know, here's their 1394 01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:36,600 average velocity. I didn't want to know what they 1395 01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:38,120 peaked at. I wanted to know their average 1396 01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:41,640 in game velocity and then I would do their next year and 1397 01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:44,360 then here's their change, you know, so you can see that that 1398 01:19:44,440 --> 01:19:49,120 guy gained 8 and then 4 1/2 and then 1.4 and then I remember his 1399 01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:50,680 last year was about one mile an hour. 1400 01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:53,600 So there, you know, and then I was starting to see similar 1401 01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:57,280 things, you know, 7.54.17.8 growth. 1402 01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:59,400 You're seeing all these huge numbers from their 8th to 1403 01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:02,360 freshman year. See some guys even went down one 1404 01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:04,640 year. Here's the young man that that 1405 01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:07,040 transition where he started lifting and so he saw a big 1406 01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:11,720 sophomore to junior jump of 6.8. But it was very unlikely that a 1407 01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:13,880 guy saw a huge, you know, here's a bunch of seniors. 1408 01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:17,960 Point 8.83.83.2. Some of that is just they 1409 01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:20,680 started pitching more and then I just did some numbers, min Max 1410 01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:22,880 and average down here so I could better understand. 1411 01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,320 And you can see again, it's not a huge data set. 1412 01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:27,640 My goal is to do the long, long term stuff. 1413 01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:30,920 But you can see that the average for an eighth to a freshman was 1414 01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:32,840 six. And then you go to two point 1415 01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:36,120 92.3. I, I didn't have as many. 1416 01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:39,360 We had a lot more 8th to 9th graders, but then some of those 1417 01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:43,560 kids quit. And so I, I think it's, I, I do 1418 01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:49,400 think it like it, it alludes to that idea of what you just said. 1419 01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:53,560 You know, it's very why I was trying to figure out how much of 1420 01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:58,440 this was, was us, like what was our training doing and what was 1421 01:20:58,440 --> 01:21:00,880 just like them growing up, you know what I mean? 1422 01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:04,760 Like as opposed to, you know, being able to say each year our 1423 01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:09,640 guys gain this much or it's like, OK, so most of my guys are 1424 01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:12,320 seeing here's the average 8th to 9th. 1425 01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:14,160 So if you were above that, was there anything we did 1426 01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:16,440 differently? What was, you know, and how, how 1427 01:21:16,440 --> 01:21:20,280 did that happen? And so my, my, my curiosity 1428 01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:25,920 right now is, is alludes to what you said, Tanner, that like, my 1429 01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:29,480 curiosity is like, do you actually need to sell out for 1430 01:21:29,480 --> 01:21:35,720 velocity? Or can you like have that 1431 01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:40,480 clarity of intention being, I'd like to do velocity in the, in 1432 01:21:40,480 --> 01:21:42,360 the context that you're trying to train. 1433 01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:47,000 And then you could add constraints to help them do that 1434 01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:50,000 over a wider breadth of places, right. 1435 01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:52,240 So like, if I have a guy right now in the fall who wants to 1436 01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:56,160 develop velocity, what I might do is I might not. 1437 01:21:56,240 --> 01:21:58,880 What we did last year was like we would, we would have them 1438 01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:03,320 throw their 15 to 30 pitches in our gameplay where we're putting 1439 01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:07,760 them in, you know, two strike accounts or a three P type 1440 01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:09,560 things like not not full scrimmages. 1441 01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:11,320 So they're only going to throw 15 to. 1442 01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:13,560 So I have to remind us what you're a little. 1443 01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:14,560 Oh yeah, sorry. Thank you. 1444 01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:17,960 A three P So after three percentage right. 1445 01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:20,160 So the guys we don't even finish the at bats. 1446 01:22:20,440 --> 01:22:23,600 The at bats always over after three three pitches. 1447 01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:28,680 If you get ahead 1-2 or O2 at bats over, you win as a pitcher. 1448 01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:31,760 If you fall behind 2 / 2 one at bats over balls in play, it's 1449 01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:34,200 over. So we're just highlighting that, 1450 01:22:34,440 --> 01:22:36,800 you know, guy pitchers, obviously they throw first pitch 1451 01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:38,480 strikes. They get ahead early in the 1452 01:22:38,480 --> 01:22:40,560 count and we're just like, that's the whole intention of 1453 01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:43,720 the activity. What I do is the guy would throw 1454 01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:46,440 in that environment and then he'd have a day off and he'd 1455 01:22:46,440 --> 01:22:49,880 throw a real light V low cap live if we weren't doing, you 1456 01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:53,480 know, more of an early, early in the fall, like, hey, maybe you 1457 01:22:53,480 --> 01:22:56,160 should work on A1 scene because of your profile in this way. 1458 01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:00,120 But what I might do one guy who wants to throw a little harder, 1459 01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:02,520 that was his fall global intention when we talked during 1460 01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,320 the summer. And so I might just have him 1461 01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:10,240 throw more on those days and then just bag that next session 1462 01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:13,680 and let him recover and then bring him back like 3-4 days 1463 01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:15,600 later to do his next live outing. 1464 01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:18,560 Kind of go back and forth. But then the hope would be is 1465 01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:22,280 that he's like his velocity days are always the live days where 1466 01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:23,880 he's in live. Now we might throw a little bit 1467 01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:25,640 on the back end, a little bit more than that. 1468 01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:29,280 But like, oh, can we put a base runner on in this way? 1469 01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:33,160 Could we give him feedback and velocity feedback on each of 1470 01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:35,360 those things Like, hey, can you, can you do this? 1471 01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:39,680 Can you throw it at a certain velocity that's realistic for 1472 01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:41,960 you based on your current not just out of a high knee, but a 1473 01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:43,880 slide step too? Can you produce the same force? 1474 01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:45,920 Can you do it with a runner at second versus a runner at first? 1475 01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:47,720 Can you do it versus a lefty versus a righty? 1476 01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:52,880 Can we keep the game embedded and work on velocity in that 1477 01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:54,320 way? So I'm intrigued with that. 1478 01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:57,160 And that's where I feel like for the guys who want to gain Velo 1479 01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:59,600 during the fall, I don't want to pull them out of the real thing 1480 01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:01,480 to do that. I want to keep them embedded in 1481 01:24:01,480 --> 01:24:04,200 the real thing and then figure out how we do that around it, 1482 01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:09,160 changing the conditions so that they can do it as in as many 1483 01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:15,280 different places as possible. Yeah, I would agree. 1484 01:24:15,280 --> 01:24:18,800 It's it's just seems like like, yes, when somebody wants to gain 1485 01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:21,400 velocity, it's like, OK, everybody does. 1486 01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:25,920 So to take them out, like you said just is counterintuitive 1487 01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:29,040 when they need to be able to perform at that velocity in 1488 01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:31,200 game. And so like I've had guys where 1489 01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:34,320 it's like, OK, you want to you want to gain velocity, you want 1490 01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:38,400 a Vilo day, like get to an O2 count and then tell them if 1491 01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:40,360 fastball's coming now you have to beat them. 1492 01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:43,520 You're not going to tell him it's coming in a game, but like 1493 01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:47,000 it gets a competitive juice going at least in live at bats 1494 01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:48,680 to be like, Hey, he knows it's coming. 1495 01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:52,320 You know what your throat like you told him, now go up there 1496 01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:55,240 and beat him one-on-one and see if you can like get him out with 1497 01:24:55,240 --> 01:24:58,200 it. O2 more often than not, they 1498 01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:00,520 completely sail it. But then they understand like, 1499 01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:03,400 Oh, I kind of have to like try and put this somewhere. 1500 01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:09,040 So then they understand like, OK, I can't just throw fastballs 1501 01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:11,600 as hard as I can. Like like, yeah, I want to go 1502 01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:14,880 high intent in game, but I also have to have an intention to it, 1503 01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:18,160 not just blow it by him or just throw as hard as I can. 1504 01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:22,360 So so yeah, it's like that's how I like to treat velocity Days is 1505 01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:27,160 like go live at bats, go face somebody or go do something in 1506 01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:32,760 context or whatever it might be. Work counts at a high intent and 1507 01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:36,520 if you walk two guys your bullpens over like whatever it 1508 01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:40,680 might be. And I think too, like, you know, 1509 01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:44,480 as you bring up that that example of doing Vilo against, 1510 01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,880 against hitters, you know, at the showcase, it was really 1511 01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:52,480 interesting to see one of our sophomores who's Vilo doesn't 1512 01:25:52,480 --> 01:25:55,840 quite match his size. And whatever. 1513 01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:02,400 I, I heard the story after the fact, but our pitching coach, 1514 01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:05,320 because we're using the watches, basically just said like rear 1515 01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:07,520 back and let this one like absolutely eat. 1516 01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:12,320 And he did. And it was for him like a big 1517 01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:16,000 number that we haven't seen at least since I've seen him. 1518 01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:20,720 And I was just like, OK, it's funny though, because I, I 1519 01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:23,600 don't, I think he might have been, I think he might have been 1520 01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:27,320 up O2 or whatever, but the ball ended up, you know, inside, 1521 01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:28,880 right? And this kid ended up swinging 1522 01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:33,240 and riding up and smacking him in the the hand or like the arm 1523 01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:37,360 or something like that. And so it was kind of neat to 1524 01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:42,520 see like him hit an 86, you know, because otherwise he lives 1525 01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:48,760 in the like the 78 to like 83, but really in the like 80 to 82 1526 01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:52,760 range, you know. And I think though, sometimes 1527 01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:56,040 though, for like him and one of the other, like some of the like 1528 01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:59,800 one other, the slow throwing lefties, it's like you need to 1529 01:26:59,960 --> 01:27:01,640 you need to throw the ball with some intent. 1530 01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:05,800 Like in order for you to learn how to throw hard, you have to 1531 01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:09,320 like try to throw hard. And that's this is going back to 1532 01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:11,680 what you were saying too before Tanner of like that doesn't work 1533 01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:14,000 for everybody. A lot of guys they they tense to 1534 01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:17,880 they, they tense way they, they, they tense too much. 1535 01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:23,200 And that's why they don't throw as hard, right versus you free 1536 01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:25,240 them up, you give them greater work capacity. 1537 01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:27,400 Now they're more efficient. Now they're more free. 1538 01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:30,480 And then things start to like just really start to flow. 1539 01:27:30,480 --> 01:27:32,360 And then they hit their big numbers that way. 1540 01:27:33,480 --> 01:27:38,680 And so, but I think this goes back to like, we, we as coaches 1541 01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:43,080 can't Blake it, Blake it blanket statements, you know, for 1542 01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:45,840 everybody. And I think that's what where I 1543 01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:48,760 think a lot of players are confused is because like, you 1544 01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:52,560 know, they've heard like, oh, you know, coaches bemoan the 1545 01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:55,680 facility guy who's chasing Vilo and this and that, and they 1546 01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:57,840 don't want to be that. And so then now they're they're 1547 01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:01,240 not throwing with any intent behind their their their 1548 01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:03,360 pitches. So then their Vilo just kind of 1549 01:28:03,480 --> 01:28:08,800 sits in the same spot. And so I think that's where 1550 01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:10,320 things need to take a step forward. 1551 01:28:10,320 --> 01:28:14,120 Additionally, you know, I think what you guys have been 1552 01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:16,680 describing from an SNC standpoint is concurrent 1553 01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:19,160 training, right? Where I'm concurrently training 1554 01:28:19,160 --> 01:28:24,560 multiple different qualities. And I, you know, there's this, 1555 01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:30,440 this day, I want to say like tension between the traditional 1556 01:28:30,440 --> 01:28:33,400 way of lifting, you know, which is like we focus on one quality 1557 01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:36,960 at a time. Because if I, if I don't, then 1558 01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:39,480 if I start doing multiple qualities at the same time that 1559 01:28:39,480 --> 01:28:41,680 we'd really, we don't get much gain out of that. 1560 01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:46,240 And I think that would explain why, you know, we, we may not 1561 01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:49,480 see big jumps in certain metrics that we're, we're looking at 1562 01:28:49,480 --> 01:28:52,480 because we're not really, we're, we're doing multiple different 1563 01:28:52,480 --> 01:28:55,240 things, right? And I think from the standpoint 1564 01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:57,600 of what we're trying to develop for a baseball player, sometimes 1565 01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:01,400 that's OK, right? Like if I improve the skill of 1566 01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:05,560 their ability to get outs and their Velo doesn't necessarily 1567 01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:09,680 bump as high as it possibly could, that may be OK, you know? 1568 01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:13,560 But at the same point, if we want the Velo to show up in 1569 01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,880 game, then we're actually going to have to use a kind of a 1570 01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:21,440 concurrent model a little bit like you can't just do pull 1571 01:29:21,440 --> 01:29:25,400 downs and think that that's going to transfer to to the 1572 01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:27,200 mound. It might for some guys, but for 1573 01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:28,680 the majority guys, it's probably not. 1574 01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:31,040 So you're going to have to do some sort of concurrent training 1575 01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:33,240 where you put a guy on the mound, you maybe put a guy in 1576 01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:36,120 the batter's box or whatever. But I think this comes back to 1577 01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:42,600 again, you know, using the said principle, was it specific 1578 01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:44,280 adaptation to impose demands, right. 1579 01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:48,160 So now we have to, if I put you on the mound and you're now 1580 01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:50,680 throwing a high intent, that's going to be different, right? 1581 01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:53,680 But now talking about like the blending between, OK, your 1582 01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:56,480 perceptual depth. OK, well, if I bring the target 1583 01:29:56,480 --> 01:30:00,000 in, maybe I can get you to experience overspeed and what it 1584 01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:03,800 feels like to to move to throw hard. 1585 01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:06,200 How how fast I have to move to throw harder, how I have to 1586 01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:09,960 apply force to throw hard. But then now we, we, we blend 1587 01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:14,840 out that back into, you know, throwing to a catcher, a target 1588 01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:17,800 at 60 feet, maybe adding a batter, all these sort of things 1589 01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:20,760 you don't need to get layered in. 1590 01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:23,520 And so I think that going back to again like these SNC 1591 01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:26,320 principles, I think there's already a language, there's 1592 01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:30,080 already thoughts and research and theory behind all of these 1593 01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:34,200 things like grabbing on to that and using that I think is just 1594 01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:38,680 a, a quicker way than trying to recreate the wheel with, with 1595 01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:40,720 coming up with our own sort of language. 1596 01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:45,280 I really appreciate that because I, I actually, while you're 1597 01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:48,080 talking there, I was super interested because I didn't do 1598 01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:50,600 my last year at all. So really I went back and, and 1599 01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:53,360 put our guys velocities in really quick and, and it was 1600 01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:56,720 amazing how much attract, you know, like the guys who are more 1601 01:30:56,720 --> 01:31:02,120 skillful on the mound, like saw a little higher velocity bump 1602 01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,440 the guys and there were some guys who were just raw. 1603 01:31:05,440 --> 01:31:07,920 I want to acknowledge that too, but there are a couple guys on 1604 01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:12,560 there who couldn't throw strikes and saw a smaller bump or saw a 1605 01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:16,120 decrease, you know, and so that concurrent training, I, I think 1606 01:31:16,120 --> 01:31:20,160 one of the reasons why it's so important is because what we're 1607 01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:22,200 trying to do is throw harder in the real game. 1608 01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:25,160 You know, I, I alluded to it earlier and like the number of 1609 01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:29,000 times we, I see young men post on Twitter that like this is how 1610 01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:31,360 hard I throw and then I go look at their synergy and it's 6 1611 01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:35,400 miles an hour lower. It's like we want you to do the 1612 01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:39,000 thing in the real game and even something as simple as like, 1613 01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:40,760 well, I can't throw strikes. Well, then your your degrees of 1614 01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:42,640 freedom are going to be frozen and you're not going to throw us 1615 01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:44,360 hard in the game. That's just the way it is. 1616 01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:48,840 And so if we're not embedding them in the real game, like even 1617 01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:51,880 even the guys who have talked to me about, well, you know, I 1618 01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:53,320 really liked it. You know, I've been reading this 1619 01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:55,720 stuff about like really wanting to train during the summer. 1620 01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:58,360 I go, hey, that's great. All I ask is that you have a 1621 01:31:58,360 --> 01:32:02,600 place to at least throw live at least once every other week 1622 01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:06,000 because otherwise you're going to get, you're getting no 1623 01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:08,200 feedback on whether your training is doing the thing that 1624 01:32:08,200 --> 01:32:11,120 you think it's doing. You know, and honestly, I kind 1625 01:32:11,120 --> 01:32:13,440 of think one of the coolest places is if you had a place to 1626 01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:16,480 like throw in a real live game every two weeks because 1627 01:32:16,480 --> 01:32:19,080 sometimes every week you can't like go as hard as you want on 1628 01:32:19,080 --> 01:32:22,040 those off days. But like every two weeks, like 1629 01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:25,640 you could throw in a real live game and then have two weeks of 1630 01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:27,520 just locked in training and then do it again. 1631 01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:30,760 And you're constantly getting this feedback of like, OK, I'm 1632 01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:33,160 going to take the thing that I'm training and put it in the real, 1633 01:32:33,400 --> 01:32:36,040 the the fully real environment doesn't of course, mean all you 1634 01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:39,800 do is long toss or all you do is throw into a a net in between 1635 01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:42,800 those two weeks. Still wanting to do to what 1636 01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:45,840 Taylor has been alluding to that that they're trying to do So 1637 01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:48,280 well, if I don't have this, how can I do stand insurance and 1638 01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:50,320 intentions and attention, things like that. 1639 01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:53,480 But I think that's what's really important to me is just again, 1640 01:32:53,480 --> 01:32:57,000 the full scope of analysis being the performer environment 1641 01:32:57,000 --> 01:33:00,640 relationship, understanding why skill emerges and that velocity 1642 01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:04,320 is a skill and velocity can or cannot show up based on certain 1643 01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:05,680 factors that are happening in the game. 1644 01:33:05,680 --> 01:33:09,200 So if you're not doing it, you know, in a way that's that's 1645 01:33:09,200 --> 01:33:11,880 going to have the same information, then then quite 1646 01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:14,880 simply, it doesn't really matter how hard you can pull down into 1647 01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:17,080 a net. I'm sure you've exposed your 1648 01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:19,360 body to it, but it doesn't matter. 1649 01:33:19,360 --> 01:33:21,600 It's not going to show up in the game unless you've done that 1650 01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:24,120 training to what you were alluding to, Boyam. 1651 01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:29,280 Real quick, before Tanner, you jump in here, I, I just want to 1652 01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:31,960 highlight what you said there, Kyle, because I think it does 1653 01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:35,880 touch on what Tanner was saying before of like how the degrees 1654 01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:38,600 of freedom get frozen, right? Restricts your ability to 1655 01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:43,680 express the quality of like Max effort if you can't put the ball 1656 01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:45,760 where you want it. So in order to try to put the 1657 01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:49,120 ball where you want it, you often modulate the first thing 1658 01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:51,880 to go is going to be velocity. You know, as an example. 1659 01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:58,560 And also too, this is where I think workload matters a ton is 1660 01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:03,160 because if you, if you don't have the capacity right to, to 1661 01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:07,200 handle the workload, your Velo is going to be suppressed 1662 01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:09,960 because of the fact that you don't, you're physically don't 1663 01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:12,240 feel as well, right. If you got a little bicep 1664 01:34:12,240 --> 01:34:14,800 tendonitis flaring up, you know, your shoulders a little bit 1665 01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:17,920 tight, whatever it is, these, all these things play into 1666 01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:22,880 reduced output, you know. And so this is where again, like 1667 01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:28,120 focusing on something like work capacity can open up velocity 1668 01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:33,000 simply because now you have the ability to do that more 1669 01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:35,280 frequently and now you're able to recover and be able to 1670 01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:38,760 express that more. And so that's, that's where I, I 1671 01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:42,240 want to kind of highlight the, the fact of like, if we want to 1672 01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:44,720 develop some of these other skills, you need some sort of 1673 01:34:44,720 --> 01:34:49,080 like base or foundation and some other things that actually frees 1674 01:34:49,080 --> 01:34:52,560 you up to be able to express these metrics that, that people 1675 01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:57,840 are, are chasing. Where would you, what would you 1676 01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:00,080 land? Land with anything Tanner as we 1677 01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:02,200 try to close this thing out so we can both get to our 1678 01:35:02,200 --> 01:35:05,560 appointments. Yeah, I think it's just there's 1679 01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:09,240 so much nuance to it, right? Like, yes, we definitely want 1680 01:35:09,240 --> 01:35:13,200 the more skillful athletes, but if they don't have the output to 1681 01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:16,720 scale or at least come close to scaling at the level that they 1682 01:35:16,720 --> 01:35:19,040 want to get to, well, then we need to work on that. 1683 01:35:19,400 --> 01:35:22,720 But we also just can't have a guy that throws hard and sprays 1684 01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:24,800 the backstop. So I just think it's a lot of 1685 01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:27,360 lot of figuring out what works for the athlete. 1686 01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:30,840 And I feel like we say that a lot, but it's meaningful. 1687 01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:33,520 It's the truth. And if we can solve, continue to 1688 01:35:33,560 --> 01:35:37,560 be problem solvers that we can, we can have our cake and eat it 1689 01:35:37,560 --> 01:35:40,800 too in a sense. But to be able to have high 1690 01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:44,640 velocity or higher velocity and more skillful pitchers. 1691 01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:50,080 Maybe the only thing I would add to all of it is, is what you, I 1692 01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:52,080 think you alluded to it really early on, Tanner. 1693 01:35:52,080 --> 01:35:55,120 It's just like the process of needing to be patient. 1694 01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:58,520 I found that so often, you know, like again, looking back at this 1695 01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:04,000 chart, these were only summer, summer velocities that I showed. 1696 01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:06,680 One of the things I can start building now is I'm going to 1697 01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:09,240 have a fall and a spring, you know, and I'm going to be able 1698 01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:11,160 to see again, what are the normative, I'm going to actually 1699 01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:14,560 have a larger even we all have a larger data set because, you 1700 01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:16,800 know, in high school we didn't have quite as many pitchers that 1701 01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:18,920 we're throwing regular. But I'm going to have a larger 1702 01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:22,800 data set both from the fall and the spring to see growth numbers 1703 01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:26,720 and to see normative ranges and hopefully to allow players a 1704 01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:30,400 little bit more ability to go. I trust the process to like 1705 01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:33,240 trust the work that you need to do over the long haul and the 1706 01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:37,520 daily stuff that boy you, you alluded to that a ton as well. 1707 01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:40,360 Like just the there's so many factors here that you have to 1708 01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:43,680 get aligned and it's not just going to happen right away. 1709 01:36:45,040 --> 01:36:47,120 Yeah. And then to the one other thing 1710 01:36:47,120 --> 01:36:50,680 that I wanted to add is, you know, seeing the Velo gain 1711 01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:54,960 either, you know, as the season goes on, I wonder how much that 1712 01:36:54,960 --> 01:36:57,440 just has to do with them now getting in shape, right and 1713 01:36:57,440 --> 01:36:59,760 building up the capacity right like that. 1714 01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:04,720 So sometimes to your point of like how much of that is us and 1715 01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:07,520 how much of that is the fact that like it's just the game 1716 01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:10,400 taking care of, you know, it's, it's the exposure. 1717 01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:15,800 Because I think, you know, the the basic element of in 1718 01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:18,880 practice, if you can get the exposure in practice, now all of 1719 01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:20,800 a sudden now you're moving that process along. 1720 01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:26,960 And that's where, again, I do think, you know, OK, a guy has 1721 01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:29,920 great velocity or whatever, but I've also seen it guys come in, 1722 01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:31,680 they have great velocity and then now they're getting 1723 01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:34,080 injured. So, OK, so now you have this 1724 01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:38,920 this capacity, but you don't have the longevity to be able to 1725 01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:40,440 sustain it. And I think that comes back 1726 01:37:40,440 --> 01:37:43,120 again. In my opinion, the whole purpose 1727 01:37:43,120 --> 01:37:47,240 of training is to prepare you for the thing that you want to 1728 01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:51,840 do. And so I think right now a lot 1729 01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:54,120 of the development is just incomplete. 1730 01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:58,520 It's it's it's getting us to the, you know, it's opening a 1731 01:37:58,520 --> 01:38:03,440 door, but it's not preparing you to really walk through the door 1732 01:38:03,440 --> 01:38:05,560 and have success on the other side of it all the time. 1733 01:38:05,960 --> 01:38:10,480 And and we're leaving it sometimes up to the the game to 1734 01:38:10,480 --> 01:38:13,280 hoping that the game will take care of that piece. 1735 01:38:13,400 --> 01:38:16,280 I think this is, you know, it's something that Tyler kind of 1736 01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:20,000 talked about your be when we were at starters Tanner, you 1737 01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:24,760 know, of like when a lot of times the SNC coaches and this 1738 01:38:24,760 --> 01:38:27,800 was the the argument to get some more of the the skill work into 1739 01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:31,320 the SNC side was like, all right, I'm going to do some 1740 01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:33,400 physical prep for you guys. I'm going to walk you to the 1741 01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:35,320 bridge. I'm going to patch you on the on 1742 01:38:35,320 --> 01:38:36,760 the button. Be like, good luck trying to 1743 01:38:36,760 --> 01:38:40,680 figure out how to get over this bridge to, to the to the other 1744 01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:43,720 skill side of this, you know, and, and I think that's where we 1745 01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:44,400 need to improve.