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Brothers and sisters, welcome back.
Welcome back to another exciting edition of the Devon and the
Duke podcast. This is a limited edition series
hosted by your main man. Duke loves wrestling and of
course, the five time Hall of Famer, one of the greatest of
all time, the YouTube sensation Devon Dudley.
What's going on there, Devon? What's going on?
Just got done doing I think what 9 videos in a row so we can have
in the can so they'll be able to pump it out.
Yeah. And you got some special guests.
I don't know if you want to you want to tease any of that, but
you got some special guests that are going to be on the YouTube.
Absolutely. Zack Ryder, Matt, Matt.
I can never say his last name. Matt Cardona.
Cardona, thank you, and Stevie Riches from ECW.
You know, Stevie has kind of turned himself into some to a
expert on the do's and don'ts of pro wrestling, especially the
unsafe stuff. He does a very good job of
breaking down why something is unsafe and stuff like that.
He's he's a pretty sharp guy, huh?
Yeah. He really is very smart to the
business, knows what he's doing. I really like Stevie a lot.
I always have. Yeah, yeah, he seems like a good
guy there. And of course, Matt Cardona, AKA
Zack Ryder, the fact that he is married to the United States
champion who happens to be a Canadian, Chelsea Green, you
know, I, I got to give him props for that alone.
Well, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to go on record.
I don't think I've ever seen a bad looking Canadian girl.
I mean, every Canadian girl that's ever been in the
spotlight, whether it be wrestling, whether it be any
type of sports, whether it be singing, they're all hot, man.
Yeah, yeah. They really are.
It's not a bad, they're not a bad looking Canadian chick.
I was, I was, I was like before I got married, I was like, man,
maybe I should go to Canada to get me a girl.
Of course, that was before I got married.
Listen, don't, don't mess around now you know you your your
fellow Hall of Famer there, Trump, he might deport you up to
Canada. You keep talking like that.
Well, I could say, well, I wouldn't be mad at him, but I am
married so I can't do that. Yep, Yep.
Yep, Yep, stay out of trouble now.
Stay out of. Trouble.
I need to say my black ass out of trouble.
Yes, please got. Too much going on here.
Please, please. But no, that's cool man.
It's cool that you connected with those guys again,
especially your your ECW brethren, Stevie.
I think that's really awesome. What is your connection with
with Zack Ryder AKA Matt Cardona beyond just like, did you
produce for him or something? Well, we worked together in the
ring when I came back, and I also produced for him.
So, you know, I did a lot of stuff with Matt.
So you know it. Yeah.
So you know, this, these generation of wrestlers like
Matt and them. Oh, Kurt, you know, it's been
great, you know, that I've been able to work with these guys and
really, really, you know, be able to do stuff like this with
them. And you know, it's just, it's a
testament to when we came back, how much respect these guys had
for us. Well, you, you came back and you
gave back and. Exactly.
You know, it's funny, I, I was talking to my lady about this
the other day because she manages people and I have, you
know, a pretty strong management background myself.
So I was reminding her, hey, no matter what happens, people
never forget the way that you treated them, especially if
you're somebody who's in a position of being a mentor, a
manager, a trainer or whatever on the job trainer, like in your
case, eventually you, you went from working with them in the
ring to being a producer and helping them layout matches and
stuff like that. They never forget how you
treated them. So if you're a jerk, they going
to remember you're a jerk, you know what I mean?
But if you're, if you're a gentleman and you've been
helpful and you poured into their cup and, and they're
better off because of it, which is the case with you, they never
forget that man. They never forget that.
So you know, that's a testament to to you being a gentleman and
doing the right thing. So shout out to those guys and
shout out to you, bro. Can't wait to see that that
material there. Well, you know, again, we really
got some good stuff coming up and I really hope the fans like
it and enjoy it, but also like and subscribe, get the word out.
And again, let us know what you want to see on the channel too.
We we listen, we read the comments.
So just let us know. Absolutely, absolutely.
And, and especially when it comes to other guests and
collaborators and what have you. If there's somebody that you
want to hear Devon speak to, especially on the channel over
there, please let him know. Let him know.
Absolutely. And the and the channel is just
Devon Dudley right on YouTube. Yes, it's just Devon Dudley.
Awesome, awesome stuff there. Listen man, we're on the road to
WrestleMania. So one of the things that
happens during this time period that I've noticed because you
know, I have a Facebook groups and different communities on
social media. So being able to, to gauge fan
interest in different ways there.
The engagement is always through the roof right around this time
period and it it typically lasts through April where people are
just so plugged in the WWE they can't consume enough content.
So not just the current stuff, but they they want to go back
and watch stuff from the past and talk about it and things
like that. There's just a buzz because
WrestleMania is the granddaddy of them all.
It's the thing that we all grew up on, we loved the most and all
that good stuff there. From from that perspective, how
are you feeling? Do you feel the energy that that
is the road to WrestleMania, so to speak?
You know, on a scale of 1:00 to 10:00, I'm going to probably say
mine is a three or four. And it's not because it's WW ES
fault. It's because I've been out of
tune with all my outside projects that I've been doing
and I really haven't had a chance to really follow a lot of
stuff. You know, I followed the Naomi,
Bianca and Jade thing. I thought that was great.
You know, looking excited to that to see where they go with
that. You know, the whole Rock thing
with Cena, you know, looking to see what happens there, you
know, so there are a lot of stuff that I'm really, really
eager to watch and see. But you know, that high pitch,
you know, WrestleMania Flint, I don't have yet.
And again, it's not WWE's fault. It's the fact that I haven't
been in tune with the company in a long and and some time because
I've had other things that I've had to deal with.
That's fair. That's fair.
When. But when you're out and about,
do you? What are you seeing out there?
Are people talking about mania at all?
No, I think some of the buzz is still around John Cena turn.
And I just had a conversation with a guy in the sauna at the
gym, and he brought that up and how, you know, he was happy that
John had turned and that, you know, I think people have been
anticipating it and so forth and so on.
And I told him, I said, yeah, you know, but who's this?
You know, Vince didn't want him to turn, didn't think it was
good to turn even though everybody else did.
Vince didn't. So my thing is, you know, being
that Vince didn't, it was probably good that he didn't
turn them because now look at what we got.
Who's to say we would have the same reaction if he would have
turned them when everybody want him to turn?
Well, and, and keep in mind in order to turn who probably other
than Hulk Hogan is probably the John Cena is the biggest
babyface ever. In order to turn somebody like
that who's generating all of that revenue with merchandise
and all this stuff, he's doing the Make a Wish stuff, you got
to have somebody replace them and.
I don't know if Bodie's digging up to do that.
Well, well, I'm not even talking about, I'm not even talking
about right now. I'm just talking about
throughout Cena's career. You know when when he came in,
Austin was already banged up. Pretty much done, right?
Who was the big Hollywood? Yeah, Rock was in Hollywood, so
it's not like he could be full time.
Who would have been the babyface that could have filled in and
still maintain the revenue that WWE was making?
If you don't have John Cena as your top babyface and you have
them as actually your heel, could you even think of a single
person who could have slid into that role during those 25 years
and actually held things together?
To be honest with you, I don't think I know.
I don't think I have the answer to that.
Brother, I can't think of a single person, and that's no
disrespect to anybody, but that is a nod to John Cena's
commitment and dedication and connection with the fans.
It's not as simple as he's a good guy and the other guy's a
bad guy. It's like, no, this person has
touched the people on a scale like we've never really seen
other than Hogan. Hogan had me and you when we
were kids that exact same way that John Cena had these kids.
You know, it's, it's literally the same thing, but Cena did it
for longer at that level. So which, which makes this turn.
I've been thinking about this and I guess we'll transition
into this because the debate is, is this the biggest turn in
history? Is this is John Cena turning
heel bigger than Hulk Hogan turning heel?
And I've been going back and forth, but I'm, I'm, I'm going
to, I'm going to land on this. And I want to get your, your
take too. I think Cena turning heel is a
bigger deal because it was harder based on society and all
the things that we had already experienced.
It was much more difficult for John Cena to be a babyface as
long as he was compared to when Hogan was a babyface.
So as a result, I think it hurts more the, you know, the people
who looked up to John Cena and care about him because it's
still a whole new generation of kids who are into that hustle,
loyalty, respect, never give up, all that stuff, dressing like
him and all that. I think it hurts them more.
When Hogan turned heel in WCW, Hulk Hogan as a as a babyface
really wasn't that hot anymore. So, you know, it was like kind
of whatever, John Cena's still John Cena.
So I think this is a bigger turn.
What would say you, Devon? You think John Cena's turn is
bigger than Hogan's? Only because of when Hogan's
happened. He it was.
It's not like it happened when he was red and yellow Hulk Hogan
in WWE. That's the only reason I don't
think Hulk Hogan was as big of a babyface in WCW as John Cena has
been. As big of a babyface he's as
he's been in WWE. Well, I will say this, I feel
that the whole I, I do feel that the Hogan turn was bigger.
And I say that because of look at all of the garbage and stuff
like that that was thrown in the ring at the time.
Look at the reaction from the the fans were just, it seems to
me that the fans were more shocked than anything when John
turned. And then you have some cheers
because they have been waiting for it.
People have been waiting for John to turn for a long time.
Would you? And you know, it was like they
wanted it. They didn't see it.
They didn't see Hogan turning that night.
The only people that probably saw it a little bit at a split
second was when Bobby Heenan let the cat out of the bag when he
was commentating and said which side is holding on, you know,
But other than that, they didn't see that coming.
And so when that leg dropped, everybody was shocked.
There was no chairs. You had a couple of the smart
marks who had basically just started writing sheet, you know,
the dirt sheets and stuff like that that would cheer on the
front row. The big heavyset guy.
When you go back and look at that, you know, guys like that,
they were like happy, but they their voices weren't loud enough
to, you know, sit there and to say that they were cheering
because Hogan turned back. The majority of the people show
their disgust by throwing that garbage in the ring and reacting
the way they did. You got when if you go back and
look at it, when he when Cena first did it, you got you got a
lot of cheers. It was it was cheers.
I think some of it was being surprised, but I also just feel
they got cheered just for the simple fact that, you know,
people that have been waiting for John to turn, they wanted
him to turn. Now, if John would have turned
back when everybody wanted him to turn a few years back, then
you probably would have got the reaction from the crowd the way
Hogan got it. But you didn't get that.
That's the only thing that makes it to me, makes it different
than when Hogan turned. And that's why I feel Hogan's
turn was bigger. Listen, I, I respect that take
and I don't think you're wrong. And I guess history is just
going to have to let us know because you know, with Hogan
turning, that also coincided with WCW kicking WW ES ass for
83 weeks. And, and the NWO to this day is
still one of the biggest brands in wrestling.
It's, it's definitely probably the biggest brand in, in
wrestling history other than WWE.
So I, I, I, I see your logic. I see your logic and I guess we
just have to wait for this to play out.
I will say though, this past Monday on Raw when Cena cut that
promo which lasted for you know was like 1/2 hour promo, Cody
came in and it halfway through and then they had a promo
together. But Cena explaining why he
turned, telling the fans that I'm breaking up with you,
telling the fans that is this is your fault.
I'm in a in a abusive relationship with you fans,
because no matter what I do, it's not good enough.
You know, saying that he's not going to change his music, he's
not going to change the way he dresses just because they want
him to know the way that he laid out his logic is so classic
because there's so much truth in what he's saying.
And yet it's it kind of reminds me, Yeah.
It reminded me of Randy Savage when he was complaining about
Hulk Hogan and and all the things that Hogan did to him,
which drove him to the point where he had to turn heel.
It it was it was a very similar. I got that feeling like, wow,
damn. He kind of makes a lot of sense
here. But the fans were ripping him
apart. They booed him out of the
building. They wouldn't stop.
So. OK, but let me ask you this.
Yeah, yeah. It was an overseas crowd.
Could he have done that here in the US?
Could he have gotten that same reaction?
I mean, it's almost like going overseas fans are very different
than the fans here in the US. You're right.
You're absolutely right. I mean, the last time we we
heard fans carry on like that, especially for the entire
episode of Raw was the last time they were overseas.
Like you, you're right. You, you don't necessarily get
that in the in the US, So that's a good question.
Well, if they would have done that, that also that also can be
because they don't get to see the wrestlers like they do here
here. It's almost like we're spoiled
here. You know, they can wait two or
three months and see AWWE event, you know, or maybe even less
time. So, you know, now that you go
overseas now they, it's almost like all that pent up energies
coming out and it's letting loose that that's what I feel.
You know, I could be wrong, I could be right, I don't know,
but that's what I feel. No listen man, you you, you
bring up some valid points. If it happened in MSG, you don't
think MSG would have would have gone crazy like that booing him
and carrying on? Well, New York is a different
animal, especially Madison Square Garden.
I, I, I don't know if it would have been as loud.
I don't know. I, I can't answer that question.
Maybe it would have, I don't know.
But I just, I don't know, just the overseas crowd I've always
found to be a little bit more heartfelt.
And, you know, and when they're wrestling on their wrestlers
then in the US, in other words, I think they they're they're
investing more of their heart into the storylines.
And they do here because we're spoiled.
Even though they get it overseas on TV, they're still spoiled
here. You know they can go to any day
again. Like I said, they can wait a
month and a half to two months after being there and see WWE
again. I'll, I'll tell you something
which may skew my, my perspective on this, 'cause, you
know, Cena's a Massachusetts guy and you know, I'm a
Massachusetts guy. I know the people and I who own
the store, they actually sold it recently.
So I know the new owners too. But the people who own the store
with Cena was filming those Bounty paper towel commercials
from a few years back. It's an old general store in a,
in a, in a, in a town around here.
And it's, it literally looks like you're going back in time
to like the 50s or something like that.
The way it's set up and, and what have you.
So that's why they wanted to film in that store.
And when he was filming there, 'cause he did multiple
commercials in that location, I would talk to the folks, they'd
be like, oh, he was so nice to the kids and my, my aunt, my
nephew and this and that and whatever they were so over the
moon, they got pictures the whole 9 yards, right?
He, he did bouncy and he did Hefty trash bags in that store.
Well, he turns heel. And even though the store is
under new ownership now, they held on to somebody from the old
folks. So, you know, the neighborhood
would still feel good about tradition is still there and all
that good stuff. The lady literally said to me,
John Cena, as soon as I walked in, John Cena.
And I'm like, yeah. And she was like, my nephew is
so upset. He, he doesn't want to wear the
T-shirt anymore. He's so up.
And I'm like, Oh my God, you know what I mean?
Like, this is crazy, that reaction.
And this is coming off the street basically.
So that's why I'm like, I, I it, it feels different for me.
It feels different. But I hear what you're saying.
I mean, listen, Hulk Hogan's biggest name in the history of
the of the business. So he going the other way.
It changed the business. Can we say that John Cena's heel
turn is going to change the business?
Probably not. Yeah, I mean, and I'm not
taking, believe me when I say it, I'm not taking anything away
from Cena's current. I thought it was tremendous.
I no, no, I don't know if I would have.
I don't know. And this is just me having the
rock, you know, do the 1-2. I know why he was doing it
because it's, you know, seen as three fingers, which was
originally the Dudley boys, you know.
But you know, I understand why he was doing it, but IA little
bit of me wish he wouldn't have because I would have liked to
have seen the hug, maybe get the face.
But the minute we saw the face and then Rock do what he did, we
knew there was a turn. Maybe there is a hug.
We get the face. Are we seeing what?
Wait, why is he looking like that?
Steps back. Maybe there's a smile.
There's the kick. Got it.
Draw it out a little bit more is what you're saying.
Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, you know, WWE will look
at that and go D don't know. What the fuck?
You don't know what the hell he's talking about.
You know, I don't know, I, I just look at I, I just saw it
like that because I was just like, I didn't want the Rock to
do that. But he did it and it is what it
is. I'm sure they had their reasons
why he did it that way. Well, let me ask you this
because again, we're on the road to WrestleMania.
It looks like Randy Orton is going to be in a program with
Kevin Owens, which that is what it is.
But when you look at Cena and he has The Rock in his corner,
would you take Randy Orton and and and make him part of the
heel turn where he and Cena are part of the Rocks faction?
I can see that, but I also feel that we've seen Randy turn so
many times. You know, how many more times
can we see it? But then again, it's like, OK,
what? You want him to retire, you
know, because he's seen it so many times.
How many times can we see him as a babyface?
I don't know. I do think that the turn was way
too much for Randy and there was a lot of times where I didn't
agree or didn't like that they turned them.
But again, it wasn't for me to, you know, to, to, to witness.
So it is what it is with that. Well, it's like the old joke
about the big Show. You, you could watch Big Show on
Raw and he's a babyface. And then you turn on Smackdown
and he's a heel. It's like you never do what you
were going to get with him. Because, you know, there was a
period of time where that that kept happening, where they, the
writers were, were confused, you know what I mean?
It's like, wait a second. I thought he was supposed to be
a heel. Like, why is he smiling at the
crowd? So, hey, it, it, it all is good
stuff. At the end of the day, it all
comes down to excitement. Like you said last week, we have
a John Cena that we're now more interested in with this
retirement tour. If he was just a babyface, it
would be like, Oh yeah, whatever.
But now you actually want to see what's going to happen next and
who he's going to wrestle with. Can you imagine, well, would you
put the belt on him at WrestleMania?
Would you have seen him beat Cody Rhodes?
I don't know. I don't know.
I mean, do you want to see him break the break the the, the,
the record or what? I I see that's all because this
has been brought up to me before and personally I said no, I
wouldn't want to see it. But then why did we turn him
heel in the 1st place to get all this heat?
Why not have him beat Cody and have Cody chase him until the
retirement? Yeah, I mean, I, I think Cody
should be his last match and he should be putting the belt on on
Cody during that last match. Absolutely.
So why not have him do that rest of man?
Now, when is John supposed to be leaving?
He said that literally the last WWE event in December will be
his last match. When?
The last WWE event in December, so whenever that is, is at the
end of the month in December of 2025, this.
Year. That's usually at the garden.
Yep, Yep. That's usually that holiday
Christmas special, yeah. Yep, Yep.
So it's not like we're going to do this next year.
This is it, this is it. So a lot has to happen between
now and then. Right.
You know, because it's not like Cody's the only person he's
going to wrestle. He's going to, he's going to
have to wrestle Randy Orton one more time because that's his
biggest feud. So that's going to have to
happen. But there are, there are younger
guys that he needs to get in the ring with and, and, and help out
as well. So he's going to be a busy boy
in next couple of months. He's going to be a busy boy,
which would make sense. If you put the belt on them.
If you put the belt on them, now you have stakes on top of
everything. It's interesting.
The whole thing is interesting. I can't wait to see what happens
next. I thought that crowd on Raw was
through the roof. They were in Germany.
I thought they were through the roof.
I really enjoyed their energy as a performer, as as a legend, as
a Hall of Famer. Which way do you go with that?
Does it, does it ever get to a point where it gets annoying
that the crowd is basically hijacking the show?
Cause 'cause you were doing that in ECW, you and Bubba were
literally playing the fans like fiddles and getting them all
riled up and carrying on. That crowd participation was
something like, you know, you we really hadn't seen before,
despite the fact that, you know, in the 80's the crowd would
cheer and go crazy. But there was a different energy
in ECW that legitimately what we see today in these international
tours are really just a bigger scale of ECW.
But did did it ever get annoying or or did you enjoy it the whole
way through? No, I enjoyed it the whole way
through. Let me just say this, like I
said earlier, these fans don't get, you know, the wrestling
that they're going to be on a regular basis like they do here
in the United States. So when they come, they make
they they, they make it known that they're here to enjoy the
show. They want to do exactly what
they see on TV. They want to do exactly what
they've been programmed to do, and that's really be involved in
the match. Sometimes it might go a little
crazy, but you know what? At least they're not sitting on
their hands. Yeah, that's a good point.
No, reaction is definitely not what you want.
Unless you're unless you're in Japan.
Yep, Yep, good point. Good point.
You're in Japan. Sitting on your hands is not a
bad thing. They, you know, you got to get
used to that. And that's the hard part with
young wrestlers who go to Japan for the first time.
They don't get the reaction that they would get, you know, in the
United States in terms of the cheering and booing where
Japanese fans, you know, they'll sit on their hands before they
even do anything like that. So, and and that's not all
cases. Like they really go out for
their for their Japanese wrestlers.
But I've noticed that, you know, with with guys, you know, who
come in from, you know, other countries or what have you.
It's like they said, they're not, it's not, it's not a sign
of disrespect for them. It's a sign of respect when they
don't do that. And that's what I learned.
Well said. Well said.
It's interesting. I mean, we're talking about
fans. We're talking about fan
participation and all that good stuff there.
Something happened out there in in Mexico with a guy that you're
very familiar with, Alberto Del Rio or sometimes.
Yeah, I just read something, but it didn't go in.
It didn't go in detailed about that.
What happened? So he was wrestling at an event.
It was a AAA event in Tijuana over the weekend and after
beating El Gio del Doctor Wagner fans were were storming the the
barricade. They were upset.
You know, obviously it's they didn't want Alberto to win.
So they were upset about that and, and you know, they, they
were throwing things at him. They threw pennies at him.
They threw a beer at Alberto. So in response to what the fans
were doing, he ran after them and, and, and took a chair and
threw it at them and it actually hit old lady.
So this wasn't any funny, funny ha ha either that people were
really pissed off because they were emotional about the match.
They didn't want him to win but Alberto snapped and took a chair
and threw it at them but hit the wrong person.
So what say you on that? I mean, I don't think fans need
to be throwing stuff at people so that that should have never.
Happened. How bad?
How bad did the lady get hit? Not that it matters, but I'm
just curious. Well, she got hit bad enough
that Alberto was suspended for 180 days.
That's what that place hadn't. Yeah, that's what I read.
You know, fans, you're right, should not be.
Now, we talked about this earlier when Hogan turn the fans
upset, emotionally invested in a match and in the story that is
very dear to them. So and one hindsight, we're
saying, yes, it's good that the garbage was being thrown in the
ring and and then that could have just means you're
generating good heat. And then on the other sense,
we're like, wait a minute, you know, it's like you're pulling
back the curtain. We got to decide which way we
want to go, you know? You know, Bubba and I got stuff
thrown at us all the time, and we loved it.
There was only times when people would try to reach over and grab
us to hit us, where we would fight back and we would go at
them. But other than that, you know,
when the garbage was thrown in the ring, we didn't do it.
You know, Mexico, I heard was was good for that in terms of
their fans getting, you know, invested in the storylines, in
the matches and actually trying to, you know, actually hurt
people for real. You know, you know what we what
they call shaking, meaning trying to stab somebody with a
knife and they're walking to the ring.
You know, I used to hear stories about that all the time, and it
always scared me to go because it's like, OK, guys, it's pro
wrestling. I understand you're emotionally
invested, but come on. Seriously.
So you want to take something you want, take a knife or
something and stab me or hurt me because you don't like that I
won. I think it's wrong.
But I also think that, you know, Alberto's got to be careful
because he knows how some of these fans are, especially in
Mexico, and he knows that. So he's got to kind of relax.
He's got to keep his cool because if not, things like this
would happen and get out of control.
No doubt about it. And listen, I Alberto, he's,
he's a guy, you know you, you've seen it all with him.
People putting him over people, you know, disparaging him and
what have you. I've always been a fan of his
work. I don't know the guy personally,
but I've always been a fan of his work.
I just hate to see this kind of negativity around him because it
seemed like he was picking his career back up and, and things
were going well. You know, 180 days is a long
time to be laid off from, from doing the thing that you love to
do and that you make a good living doing.
So. You know, that's unfortunate,
but shame on the fans and quite frankly, shame on AAA.
Where the hell was security? That's the way I look at that.
You know what I mean? Why aren't you protecting
everybody in that situation? Right.
They Alberto should have never been in a position where he
could have thrown a chair into the stands.
They should have been on top of those fans.
Somebody, somebody should have been on top, somebody should
have been on top of Alberto. Yeah.
You know, I didn't get him. Out of there.
Yeah, if you remember back in the days of Dusty and Flair,
when all when that stuff was done all the time because, you
know, the word wasn't out yet that pro wrestling was a work.
And so a lot of these people believed that it was what it
was. And how when Flair or the Four
Horsemen would try to make it back to the locker room after
doing something to Dusty or what have you, they would have
security allowed them, walking them to the back, trying to
protect them. You know, maybe that should have
been taking any consideration. They probably didn't think it
was going to be as bad. By the time they realized it
was, it was too late. Couldn't do anything about it.
Yeah, that's true. That's true.
It's it's unfortunate man, but it seems like a pretty harsh
punishment. But the lady did go to the
hospital and I guess her, her injury was significant.
So that's why they had to at least look like they were doing
something about it. But that's a harsh punishment.
I hope they banned some of those fans from ever coming back to
AAA cause they don't have any business there If they're going
to be trying to assault the wrestlers like that, that's
ridiculous. Well, did they find out who did
it? If they found out, You can't ban
the fans if you don't know, because you know where the
garbage came from or whatever they were throwing that hit.
Alberto, you, you, you, you can't, you know, unless you tell
everybody they can't come back, then you won't have no show, you
know. But I, I don't know.
How do you how do you pinpoint who did it unless you actually
saw them? Well, now you bring up a good
question here, because did Alberto see who threw the the
pennies and all the garbage at him or did he just pick up a
chair and just throw it? You know what I mean?
Just from a general standpoint, that's that's actually a good
question. Well, do we know that?
No, we don't know that yet. We don't know that yet.
You know, that's, it's unfortunate though.
You hate to see that sort of thing.
And, and these companies, man, they, they got to get a little
better at protecting everybody. There has to be some level of
safety at these events. You know, there really should
be. It should be, It should be.
It's in, in. I'm going to transition into a a
very tragic situation that happened over the weekend.
An independent wrestler by the name of Vince Steele, he passed
away in the ring. The guy was wrestling for Brie
Combat Wrestling BCW and during an event in New Jersey on
Sunday, he was in a four way match and he just, he, he went
down and he started clutching his chest in the corner and it
just took a turn for the worse, man.
Well, unfortunately, there were no medical professionals in the
building not on duty. And this is this is the tragedy
of it all, because it's not like Vince Steele passed away right
away. He, he was still, you know,
there was a period of time that he was just in trouble and
someone called 911. The EM TS didn't get there and,
and I'm getting this information from people who are actually
there. The EM TS didn't actually get to
Vince for 45 minutes. Now, I'm being very specific
about what I'm saying here. The EM TS, the police were the
first to actually arrive on the scene, but they didn't
physically get to him until over 20 minutes after he had gone
down initially. And they did have a
defibrillator. So they did try to use that on
him. But at that point, man, it was
it was too late. It was too late.
You know, in New Jersey, it's the law that when you have full
contact events like MMA, boxing, pro wrestling, it's actually in
there. They call it extreme wrestling.
That's how they separate pro wrestling from like Olympic
wrestling. They call it extreme wrestling
in the in the actual law, but it says you're required to have two
EMTs and they have to have the proper equipment because there
are different types of EMTs. You're not going to have the the
EMT that you would have at a sporting at, at a concert.
You're not going to have them because they're not going to
have the same equipment as what you would have for a full
contact situation because it's different.
Somebody passing out at a concert because they drank too
much or something like that doesn't have the same issue as a
pro wrestler who has a concussion or is having a heart
attack or something like that, which basically is what happened
to this guy. So given all that information I
just gave you that Devon, what do you, what do you think about
that situation? I don't know the sense this is
something like this happened before in Mexico.
Wasn't Rey Mysterio part of that?
It was a little different but yes, Rey Mysterio was in a match
and he did the 619 and and unfortunately his opponent had
whiplash and ended up dying as a result of that.
Now my point to this is what I'm about to say is that when are we
going to learn our lesson? You know, WWE is doing a great
job. Let me let me just say this was
I mad? Yes.
I was furious when I couldn't participate in the NXT stuff
with Trick and Bubba in them and even just coming in there and
doing, you know, the 3D because we didn't know.
I didn't know and we in the Max didn't know that they wanted me
to go through extensive testing because of my back, because of
the back surgery I had. And in order for me, you know,
like Randy Orton had the same exact back back surgery that I
had, which I didn't know at the time until I called them up and
we spoke. I remember saying to them, how
the hell are you still in there doing what you're doing?
I freaking cringe at every bump you take now because I know that
I'm scared to death to do that, you know, but he had to get
cleared, you know, just like I did.
He had to get cleared. You know when it's one thing
when you have WWE behind you and doing it or when you're a Randy
Orton, you know, because they'll make sure you go through the
necessary channels to get cleared because you know, of
course WWE has to cover their ass.
But I didn't know that. And we even Terry Taylor, you
know, who was the agent for that match and didn't know that.
So I'm on my way to go to medical just thinking I'm
getting my blood pressure checked.
And then we were told that I couldn't participate in it
because I didn't get medication. I'm like, what do you mean I
didn't get medication? I said I'm clear.
No, you have to go through their doctors.
So if there's something wrong, you know you're they're going to
know. We need to learn our lesson.
WWE is doing a great job with that.
Like I said, I was pissed off and mad, but at the same time I
kind of understood where they were coming from, you know, so I
couldn't get. People bent out of shape and
said, oh, WWE screwed me. No, they didn't screw me.
They were taking the the necessary precaution to protect
me. Here's the problem.
Back in the Attitude Era, back in the Hogan and Andre era, your
arm could have been falling off. Take some tape, wrap it up, get
right back in the ring. That's the way they were, you
know, And you know, they don't like that anymore.
And thank you they. Are basically right.
They are definitely taking the precautions to make sure that
you are in good shape to do this.
A lot of these companies don't do that, but a lot of them don't
have the budget that the WWE has too.
So you have to put that in perspective as well.
So there's a lot of stuff behind that.
Again, these companies don't have the money that the WWE
made. They don't have it.
So it's like, OK, what do you do?
Oh, shoot, at least, at least have somebody who's part of your
company that is an actual certified EMT and that's how you
cover that base. You know what I mean?
I, I, I know that it's, it, it, it, it sounds crazy at first,
but it's like, look, if I got it, if I got to pay a couple, a
couple of bucks to have a guy who's always at the event and,
and he could do anything, he could be the damn time keeper.
He can, he could, you know what I mean?
He could be a manager or whatever, but in reality, he's
actually a trained EMT. At least I cover that base
because here's what's going to happen because they violated the
law. If the family wants to sue,
that's going to be a whole other level of something.
But you can bet your ass the state of New Jersey is going to
go after that promoter. They have to, you know what I
mean? The building is, is in trouble
because it happened in their building, right.
So there's, there's a whole trickle down effect that that is
a result of people cutting corners in places that they have
no business cutting corners. It's, it's unfair.
And, and in that life, who knows?
I mean, he was a £400 guy. Should he have even been in the
ring at all if he had? Gone through a proper, yeah.
Yeah, if he had gone through a proper physical, would he have
been cleared? You know what I mean?
So. So.
But again, that comes back to the promoter.
What are you doing, bro? What are you doing?
Yeah, I mean, do you remember when Vince went public and
stated that WWE was entertainment and we were not
legit because they were trying to beat something?
They were trying to. I forgot what it was.
Well, they were. Congress is coming after them.
They wanted to regulate them
like a real sport. So that's why he had to say
we're not sports, we're sports entertainment.
I remember that. Absolutely.
And so at that point they had to have a doctor on the floor, a
legit doctor and had to have an MATMATEMTS.
So there you have it. This is why I said it.
WWE is doing a great job without, even though Vince's
hand was forced because he made that statement, you know he had
to do it. Therefore, guess what?
It covers his, it covers his ass.
Look at what happened when Jerry the King, Lawler had the heart
attack. They had people down there.
There's no telling what would have happened if those people
weren't down there at the time when Jerry had that heart
attack. He wouldn't have made it.
The he wouldn't have made it. The unfortunate thing was Owen
Hart. That was unfortunate because
there was nothing they could have do.
A lot of people are saying that he died before that anybody got
in the ring because when he hit the turnbuckle, he broke his
neck. I don't know that to be true or
not, but that's what I heard. So yeah, I don't know.
Regardless of who was there, regardless to who, basically,
you know, could have got to him in time.
If he broke his neck the way he did after the fall, there was no
way he was going to make me able to survive.
That's the only way. Things like that will not be
able to work. Because even when that happened,
Owen Hart got immediate medical attention.
Immediate. They were right there on the
scene. They were right.
Wasn't a second to spare. Yep, they were right there.
They were right there. So all you Indy promoters, man,
I'm just telling you right now, it's not worth it.
I know you have your dreams of promoting wrestling because you
grew up a wrestling fan and you want to be in the business and
all that stuff. If you can't afford to somehow,
someway have a medical professional there in a, a
certified EMT who's certified in the jurisdiction where you're
putting on the show, you have no business putting on the show.
I'm sorry, That's that's my opinion.
Life is always more important than whatever couple of bucks
you're going to make. And and then I heard from talent
that they didn't even get paid. So there's that whole aspect of
it too. But I'm sure the fans, because
the fans had to leave. This was like the third match on
the card, Devon. They had the fans leave.
So I'm sure those fans want a refund too, right?
There's a lot of stuff that's going to come out of this.
Yeah. Bro, you haven't heard.
You have not heard the end of this?
By no means. No, it's it's going to be
national news, might be international news.
And it's unfortunate that because this was something that
should have been avoided. You know what I mean?
From what I understand, the guy was moving for at least 10
minutes after he went down. If he would have gotten proper
medical care, probably could have saved his life.
So. Now explain to me again what
happened to him to be in that position.
He was in the match. I'm, I'm not sure what moves or
what or or what kind of bumps he was taking, but he just clutched
his chest and he went down. He had a heart attack.
Wow, he had a heart attack. Yeah, now you said something
that that treated me. You said he was £400.
Big boy. I mean, you see picture of him?
You see, he's a big boy, Yeah. See, and that's, that's the part
that bothers him too, you know, don't get me wrong, you have a
lot of guys in the wrestling business.
That was £400 but nowadays with what we know, why isn't someone
taking more responsibility to make sure that guys like that
are in shape? Yeah, I mean, but he should have
had a physical that would, that probably would have eliminated
him from being in the ring, you know?
And then you get, then you get people to hear you say that
like, oh, come on. But no.
Because now look at where we are.
Yeah, Yeah. Now look at where we are.
I I don't. Know what his.
Family situation is but you know, that might be kids without
a father. That's that's parents without a
son. That's, you know what I mean?
Like that's, that's a big loss, man, that's a big loss.
So rest in peace. My condolences go out to the
family. Devon's condolences go out to
the family of absolutely steal, you know, tragic, tragic
situation there. You know, Devon, I, I, I want
to, I want to end on something that happened that unfortunately
we got to talk about it. And I know that, you know, you
and I, we have our conversations offline and, and, and what have
you. And, and having to broach these
subjects is never something that we want to do.
But sometimes you have to do it because people just step out of
line and it ain't right. And folks, you know that Demont
and I will. We, we first, when Demont first
came on 2 clubs wrestling, we had to address an issue relating
to Dylan Hines and Bobby Fulton. And you see where those guys are
these days. So you know when, when Devon has
to, has to go in on something, it is what it is.
And one thing we know Devon is not a liar.
It's one thing that people always say, well, we know Devon
tells the truth, so it is what it is.
But when you have people who I don't know, they overstep their
bounds. Are they, are they drunk with
power? Is disrespect just something
that is natural for them? I don't know.
But when you have people who crossed the line, it needs to be
addressed. So I'm going to ask you straight
up, big man, what happened recently that unfortunately not
only crossed the line with you, but also crossed the line with
Terrence and Terrell? Yeah.
That well, you know, I basically had put something to rest that
you and I had talked about. Well thinking what is it,
Russell? Russell Cade.
Russell Cade, That's correct. Yes, Russell.
Cade that was and there's what the not the guy that runs the
place, Tracy, but the guy that Tracy has working for him,
Brian. Yeah.
To refresh some of the people's memories, what happened was back
in November when Bubba and I appeared at their event,
basically we were said there was talks about us doing a couple of
things #1 coming out and doing a photo op with the Hardys.
And it was the first time that the Dudleys and the Hardys were
doing this. And this was, you know, deemed
to be very big though somebody. There was some miscommunication
on how it was supposed to be worded to the fans.
So then it got all messed up. So when fans were coming to us
now remind you we were right next to the Hardys signing
autographs. We were supposed to do it in a
private room, so to speak. When they do private, you know,
photo OPS. And so we were doing good.
Everything was good. There was there wasn't any
issues. And then there had seemed to be
some miscommunication. Now I thought we were doing it.
I had no idea what was going on. I was informed by the Hardys
agent who's my agent as well, but at the time he wasn't.
When this took place I was told that there was seem to have been
a miscommunication on how this was supposed to have been worded
to the fans and that it was supposed to have been the
Hardee's and the Dudley's taking photo OPS.
But if I'm not mistaken, I think it was said that we were signing
doing signing together but we were already sitting next to
each other. That's one #2 the photo office
was separate from the signing. So somehow or another it got
mixed up. Now, the thing that that bothers
me the most is that the guy Brian was telling my sons at the
time that your father is a bad guy, he doesn't do business well
because he no showed the Hardys. And I said to my son, I said, he
said that to you. And he said, yeah, dad.
Both of them said I was like, ah, he was like what happened?
I was like nothing. You see, the Hardys are right
here. I was like, I don't know you
talking about I I know showed. So you know, it caught me off
guard. I'm like, how are you going to
blame me for something that was messed up by you?
But yet I do bad business. That didn't make any sense to
me. And so I was told by the
Hardee's agent, Tony Hunter, that it had been called off,
that it was too much miscommunication that was going
on and that they were lucked not to do it.
But meanwhile, somehow or another I got brought up in the
mix, like I never showed up or me and Bubba both didn't show up
and we stood up. The Hardee's.
We're sitting right there next to the Hardee's.
Here's the other part that was weird and I never said on the
first time we talked about this, we had photo OPS as well.
We went to go do our photo OPS and guess who was next?
The Hardys. So we were told by both Matt and
Jeff and Tony Hunter that we're not they're not doing it
because, you know, it was a mess up and it just wasn't right.
So I was like, all right, you know, they they're not doing it,
So why are we going to do it? So how is that bad business for
us? That's one number two.
The second thing was they wanted me and Bubba to come in and
wrestle for their show. We said yes, we were going to
wrestle. Then we found out that somebody
they we came up with a number and we said yes to it.
But then we found out that somebody took us and sold us to
somebody else. In other words, there was
another promoter that wanted to take over that and somebody
within that company told us to this vendor.
And now it's almost like we're wrestling for practically
nothing because the amount of money that they received for
selling us was like, I think I heard it was like 2025.
It was, it was a large amount of money.
So that means that when Brian and Bubba, Brian Winstein and
Bubba did the math on it, they said it was like we were only
going to get $1000 for the match.
So they called me and they said, look, we're not doing this.
This is what happened. And when they told me, I
couldn't get mad at them because if you hired us to come in there
to do a job for you, then let us come in there and do the job.
Don't sit there and sell us to somebody else and think that's
OK. And so I took a stand with Bubba
and, and Wednesday happened. Absolutely.
I think it's wrong. Can't do that.
And Bubba was like, I'm not doing it.
I said, OK, not a problem. I got to stand by you.
I'm not going to afford the Bubba to say hey, you got to do
the show and blah, blah blah. No, I'm not, that's not a fight
that I'm going to do #1 #2 it's not a fight that should be
happening in the 1st place. You don't go and do business
like that. That's one.
So then Brian proceeds to tell my sons that your father is a
bad man, he's not a good father at all.
And they said what do you mean what happened?
Well, your father refused to come in the ring and do and help
you guys out without telling the boys what the real deal was.
And they said, what do you mean? So they were like he he's a bad
father. He would go to NXT and help
trick Williams with his match, but he can't help out his own
sons. Number one, WWE called me and
asked me. I'm still in the contract with
WWE, especially my legends deal. So guess what, when they call
me, I'm going. It's just as simple as that.
You can't tell me I can't. I got to turn WWE down and why
would I? So for him to say that, you
know, pissed me off. I'm a bad father because I
didn't want to do something with my boys.
So then even right before that, when me and the twins were
talking, I said, you know what I want?
I'm going to help you out Bubble knob Bubble won't be able to do
it because he's not going to want to do it because of how he
felt the how things went down. So I'll tell you what, go back
to them and tell them that I will do it.
I will go out there and be a manager.
Like for you guys, I'm not wrestling, but I'll be a
manager. So they went back and they said
something to Brian and Brian said, no, no, it was like my dad
said he's going to he's going to walk us out there.
No, no, that's OK. Nope, we're not doing it.
Now. Scratch it.
Forget it. And he was like, why?
Your father's a bad man. He's a bad father.
He shouldn't be doing that. And when they came back and told
me, I go, what? I go I'm sitting here telling
you that I'm going to do it and you don't have to pay me
anything to help my sons out. So how am IA bad father?
Because I'm telling you I'm going to do it to walk my sons
out and be their managers for the match.
And so I I time to calm down this and that.
I remember speaking to you about this.
I remember you spoke to Tracy about it.
Tracy apologized. I said OK, not a problem.
So about two months ago, I do an autograph signing for Russo.
Cade had a independent show that they had, and I went out there
in great business, no problems. But I saw Brian and at first I
didn't know what he looked like until I asked.
Somebody said there's Brian right there.
I said that's Brian. I said, yeah.
I said let me go up there and ask him.
So I asked him very nicely. I said Brian.
I said the story. I told her.
I said, did you say I was a bad father because I didn't come out
and wrestle with them? No, no, I never said that.
I never. And you could tell he was lying.
You know, he's a big, fat butterball.
You could tell he was lying. And I'm sitting up there going,
you got to be kidding me #1 the people that told me this,
including my sons, they're not going to lie about it.
He goes, no, I didn't. I didn't.
I didn't say that. But I know who did say it.
And I said, OK, well, who said it?
I'm not at liberty to say that. So a few people other than my
son said that. You did say that.
And you were running your mouth. So I'm asking you as a man
politely. I'm not being hostile in any way
shape or form. I'm not disrespecting Tracy at
the show, but I'm asking you nicely.
Are you the one that said this and you're telling me, no, you
didn't, that somebody else said it, but you're not at liberty to
tell me who it is. And he had this shit eating grin
on his face. And that's when I knew he was
full of shit. And I just went, OK, not a
problem. And you know, I shook his hand
and I walked away. You know, let it be, let it be
known or what have you. Now I get a couple of phone
calls stating that he's still talking mess and he's still
going around saying stuff about this and that.
Devon's kid ain't nothing. They can't wrestle and this and
that and blah blah blah. You fat piece of shit.
All you are is a freaking bald headed mark that tries to get a
part of the business and can't. It's because of guys like us
that shouldn't even have a job in this business in the first
place, but yet you want to talk shit.
This is where the disrespect comes in.
So therefore, with all of that being said, you know, I'm like,
OK Brian, not a problem. You're a snake.
Damn. You're a liar.
Listen, that Brian out there, please have a conversation.
Straighten it out. You know what I mean?
Because this is ridiculous. You know, it's best for Brian to
stay far away from me. And and I know that Terrence and
Terrell, they don't deserve any of that.
You know what I mean? They they haven't done anything
to anybody. So for for somebody to treat
mistreat them is just ridiculous.
It's completely ridiculous. I hope he he can reach Brian.
You can reach out to me. We got to get this straightened
out conversation. Try to find some common ground
here. You got too many people saying
the same story, brother. So, so either you, it's just a
coincidence that everybody is saying the same story or, you
know, you're not telling the truth.
But in, in any event, we got to get this sorted out man 'cause
this is not good, not good at all.
So, you know, folks listening, you know how we do here, we, we
don't shy away from having these difficult conversations and,
and. Quite frankly, there's too many
people in the wrestling industry who lack basic respect and, and,
and really, you know, decency. So you got you got a five time
Hall of Famer here. I think he's earned a hell of a
lot more respect than what's being shown here.
So, you know, take that as you may.
Someone said to me. Someone said to me, and I hate
to say this, but I'm going to say it anyway, Why do you think
he said this? Don't know, doesn't make any
sense to me. You think he, you think he's a
racist or anything like that? I said I don't.
I can't answer that. But if I was on the outside
looking in, wow, I would probably say he probably had a
problem with my skin color or something like that.
I don't know. And I have to put up with crap
like that in 2025. That's the worst part, man.
Yeah, I'm sure he'll say, oh, I had nothing to do with all that
is garbage. Yeah.
OK, So what other excuses you have?
Well, I didn't say it. Bullshit.
You didn't say it. Yes, you did, and you know you
did. So stop.
Own up to it. I would have more respect for
you as a man if you owned up to it than to sit there and deny
it. Someone once asked me one time,
because I got this from somebody, they said when I was
first got in the business, how how do you like going to the
South wrestling now, Mike, it's in 91.
It hadn't even been 30 years since the Jim Crow laws and all
of that. I said, how do you like going
into SI? Said I actually like, it doesn't
bother me at all. The fans like are hot.
I was like, they really, really get into that wrestling this and
that. What about the racism?
I said, here's the difference between the racism of North and
the racism down South. At least the racism down South.
You know, they're races. You know that they don't like
you because of the skin color and they tell you off the bat,
but the worst kind is the ones up north that pretend they like
you but yet they don't like you because of the color of your
skin. I have more respect for the I
have more respect for people who wear white sheets and all of
that than the people that wear suits and lie about what they're
saying. So as far as I'm concerned, he
is a fat man in a suit. Yeah, I, I hope this guy reaches
out and and gets it sorted out because this is, this is not
good. It's not good at all.
You don't talk, you don't talk about my kids and think I'm not
going to get hot and then say something back.
You know, I was willing to forget everything that happened
with the whole, you know, selling us to some other guy and
getting more money. Forget all that because it was
for my sons. So for you to throw your name,
for you to throw my name, my sons names into something like
that. And now you want to be mad at my
son because they told me what you said, why you should have
said it in the first place? OK, I agree.
I agree completely. Brian, reach out bro.
Let let's let's get this sorted out, man, because this is not,
it's not the way to to go And and more importantly, people are
going to hear this. So how does that affect
business? You know what I mean?
You got to get it sorted out, man.
That's all I know. Listen again, I want to make
this perfectly clear. Sure.
Now we'll leave it at this and we can end it.
It has nothing to do with Tracy. This has nothing to do with
Tracy that runs Rest OK. He has been nothing but a
professional, utmost righteous guy for me and I have no issues
with him. But the people who he has in his
organization I have problems with.
Well said. Well said.
When you have an issue, you got to make sure that it's directed
at the right party. And certainly in this case, it
certainly is so. But you know, Brian,
conversation, bro, we, we, it, it doesn't need to stay
lingering. Just have a conversation.
Let's try to figure it out because this is not good and
I'll just leave it at that. Devon, best way for everybody to
keep up with you and and especially any, any bookings you
got coming up. Absolutely.
Well, I'm off for a little bit so I'm happy about that.
I got a little bit of vacation, but I will be home this week.
But you know, you can find me on Instagram at Testify Devon, of
course, my YouTube channel, which is Devon W YouTube
channel. I mean, you know, we've got well
over 127,000 subscribers. I've sat there, I've got myself,
I've got my plaque. I was very eager about and
excited to get there. So I got my plaque.
Everything is going real well with that.
So you know, I'm very happy. Now you got to help me get to a
million. I need that gold plaque.
So please everybody get the word
out there and let them know that, you know, I'm, I'm ready
for, I'm ready for that 1,000,000 subscriber.
We need to push this and get it going.
I love it. 2025, that's the best part.
Like like you said, you know, you started what, 91 in 2025?
I love it. Gold plaques, brother, I love
it. Duke loves wrestling.
On Facebook, on twitterdukeloveswrestling@gmail.com
As always, let me know what you think of the show.
Questions, shout outs, the whole 9 yards.
Hopefully there aren't any terrible promoters out there who
are disrespecting folks, you know, because, boy, I think
we've had enough of that on all fronts.
On all fronts. Think we've had enough of that
anyways. How about our word of the week
there, Devon? Sure, nothing kills you faster
than your own mind. Don't stress over things that
are out of your control. Testify.
Testify mean strictly for the common joy every day.
Stepping style in your unique way, pants and colours so define
all about the perfect life. Be yourself, let your spirit
lie. In this fashion, you'll touch
the sky strictly for the culture and so and show your shine
strictly for the culture. Every day, visit
www.strictlyfortheculture.ca. Backstage whispers and the
crowds roar from matching giants to legends of your Diva's wisdom
and Duke's keen view. Every episode feels like it's
brand new. Diva and Duke bring the heat.
Wrestling tails knock you off your seat.
TuneIn. Now don't you be late, Wrestle.