D Yardman, Frank. That's part of.
JJ Rigby, J Rigby. That's part of like a little bit
of, like, I think some of your e-mail, I'll bet.
So no, no, no. It's on your Instagram.
Because I always, when I'm doing the short videos on on our
Instagram Recovered Attic podcast, I encourage everybody
to follow that. I'm always tagging you.
Yeah. So it's like you're like D
Yardman, Frank or something like that?
On your I was one of the slow kids in school, 'cause that's a
right. Dwayne Yardman.
Frank, there's a hyphen in there.
I don't know what a hyphen is, you know?
Yeah, you don't know what a hyphen is.
When you're little, no, you just say you don't really care about
stuff like that or dash or whatever.
It's like this is just some English thing that means
nothing. It's funny.
Yeah, Well, cool. We're going to get into.
Last time we talked about why many addicts don't get help from
meetings or programs excuses. We talked about denial, fear of
change, shame, lack of trust, and then mental illness.
Now we're going to get into reasons are excuses not to take
responsibility, but we're going to get into the excuses of why
people don't seek treatment, why they don't go to meetings, why
they don't, you know, enroll in a program.
And I want to get right into this.
The reason and there's we're going to talk about three main
ones. Number one, and I'll let you
talk about this one, is lack of access.
Meetings and programs may not be available in all areas.
Even if they are available, they may not be be affordable.
So people talk about that. I don't have any money
assessable, it's too far away, can't do this to people with
limited transportation or childcare options.
What would you say about somebody that says I can't do a
meeting or program because of lack of access?
You know, so it's the B. Yeah, yeah, a little BS.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
We we in a spiritual kind of just call you to responsibility
way, we might say. I'm not willing to cosign your
bullshit on that one. I love that.
Yeah, I'm not going to cosign your bullshit on that.
Another way to say that is when you advocate for your
limitations, you get to keep them.
When Yeah, when you argue for your limitations, you get to
keep them. That's good.
I like go ahead. Stay small.
Keep limiting your existence. Keep limiting your recovery.
Keep limiting your growth. Do you think so?
The the all of these are nonsense, especially the lack of
access. Now, with Zoom, Zoom or
different meeting platforms, you don't even need to leave your
house to find a recovery program.
All over the globe. Very interesting part about the
recovery world during pandemic, right?
Was pandemic. Exactly.
Well yeah, exactly. But very interesting component
to the recovery world during pandemic or or or pandemic was
we're built for that kind of shit.
We are built and have a program or or programs in place.
For when shit gets hard and life isn't giving me what I want,
what did we do? We got versatile, we got
creative and Zoom blew the hell up.
Now I can go to a meeting in Ireland.
Yeah, you can do Microsoft Teams.
There's Google. Meets.
It's all free. I could go to a meeting in New
Zealand right now. That's crazy.
There's there's zero excuse for lack of access now.
So if I if I'm feeling like I need to drink, I could literally
go online right now and attend a meeting.
And attend for free and attend a a program meeting.
Yeah. Any any recovery program should
have that. I don't have to leave my house.
You. Don't even have to leave the
house now, but but if you live in a pretty good sized city,
Yep, how many minutes away is a meeting?
You know what? Our city.
I would say two. I would say 5 minutes minimum.
And so in Albuquerque, here, like where I'm at right now, I
guarantee you, within a couple minutes from where I live.
Here, next to the University Nob Hill, I guarantee you 2 minutes.
Yep, 3 minutes. There's a meeting.
Yeah, right near a university. Right near a couple churches.
Yeah, it's all here. There's there's, I bet there's
that church right there. In our city alone, there's AI
think we have close to 600,000 people.
In the Albuquerque area, there are over 400 meetings for just
one recovery program. A week in the Albuquerque area.
So that means I could go to a different meeting every day of
the year and not go to the same meeting twice.
So that's how many recovery groups.
It's literally bullshit. Just Albuquerque.
It's literally bullshit, though. There's not.
That's just one program. That's just one type of type of
program recovery. Program.
You know what's crazy too, is if you go online, you find one and
it's 5 miles or less from your house, You know it's a great
idea to walk the fuck there. That is a great idea.
It's not only it's not healthy, but it's good to have a walk
there. Attend the meeting with
humility. Yeah, walk back home.
Wow. What did you just do?
22 healthy things, Yeah. So you're done for the day.
You did two healthy. Things taking care of your body
and your mind and spirit and don't smoke.
That's a good afterwards. Don't smoke on the walk, but
that's a good. That's kind of like setting the
tone for, but limited transportation means I can walk,
I can ride a bike. There's no, there's no excuse
there. And that happens all the time.
Meetings. You don't have to be.
I think a lot of people don't want the lack of access.
It just becomes an excuse, 'cause they don't want to face
the demon, you know? They know that it's there, It's
in front of them, and they don't want to.
They can. I'm doing this right now, so I
have something that I need to do and I and I don't want to.
It's a commitment. It's a time commitment.
But I really need to do it for the betterment of me.
It's a program that I need to sign up for and do, and I'm
putting it off, and I've put it off for for about a month now
because it's. I'm procrastinating on the
commitment, not not. And I I know inside of my head,
like, I know I'm going to benefit from this tenfold and I
know I need to sign up for it. I know I need to do it.
I I know, like this is going to help me out tremendously.
It's 60 bucks, so the the money is not that much, One.
Number two, there's a little bit of a time commitment.
It's not crazy and for a month now I think about it every few
days, but I don't and it's going all online and I don't do it.
So it's an excuse I think to begin something and make a
commitment because a lot of us, especially for me, if I if, if
I'm going to commit and discipline myself to do
something I don't want to fail, you know, like I want to do good
in it. I want and the desire is not as
much as I should have for it. I'm not motivated.
I'm undisciplined for this, for this one thing, you know.
Sure. So it's like and then I have 100
excuses, I'm not feeling well, my leg is screwed up.
The list goes on and on. So I I think lack of access is
an excuse to begin your recovery journey.
Yeah. You know, even even if you've
been sober for a few weeks or a few days or a few months or you.
I I don't. I think and it's the fear, it's
like when you first go to a new church or something, there's
people there. It's nerve wracking meeting new
people. Of course, yeah, of course,
yeah. Some of this excuse these
excuses and. Fear of change.
Yes, fear of change. Fear of having to do so.
The devil you know versus the devil you don't know.
It's like, I don't know how to do that.
I've never done it before, you know?
Unfortunately, sometimes things have to get really bad in order
for me to be willing to take different action and try
something new. Yeah, I was talking earlier
today about humility versus humiliation.
Mm hmm. Same word.
Well, I mean, pretty close, but yeah, very different.
But humiliation, I it it. There's something about being
humiliated in a good way. Where do you learn humility?
By going through perceived suffering?
And we're getting spiritual now, but there's something about that
that refined you and makes you your it makes your soul a better
person. Like it.
It's some There's just something about.
It's part of the hero's journey. It's every TV show, every movie
is the guy goes to his lowest of his lows, learns a lesson, then
comes back and becomes the hero and gets better.
I mean, that's over and over and over.
So we love that. We root for that, the underdog.
That's the Crucible. The Crucible, yes, Or the Forge
and and you drop into the flames.
But we we've allowed church and churches and religion to
misappropriate humility. Humility is not being like me
can like even Meeks different than what we think.
But you know these controlling religious organizations in the
14th, 15th century you know they're like don't read the
Bible don't do this We we're we're you know we wear the white
robes. We're the ones that tell you in
Latin you know what you should do and not do.
You know the though it's it's those people that re reinvented
the word humility and made it where you're supposed to just
sacrifice and give up of yourself and you know you're
center. I think really low of you.
You know it's this mindset because it's the mindset that's
you got to understand why am I not wanting to go to this
meeting? Why am I making self-awareness
question Why am I making fucking excuses not to do something
that's 2 minutes away that's going to help me.
It's not going to hurt me. It's going to help me and me not
making the decision to get up off the fucking couch and make
that 2 minute walk or 10 minute walk or 20 minute walk is only
hurting myself and my family and my children and everybody that
knows me and the work that I work at.
I know going to having coffee and Donuts and fucking sitting
there and being humbled and having humility.
Because humility, if you look up the Latin word, it's it's like a
grounding. It's like like, you know, like
hummus. Not, I mean not hummus, but like
what's the earth? It's something like that.
Fuck humus humus. You know, like it's from like
ashes to ashes, dust to dust. You know, there's like a but
it's like it's like a grounding of dirt, an earthy type, you
know, it's it's like kind of getting back to your roots and
understanding, you know? So for me, any moment that I
have that I have to have humility afterwards, it was
always something that was super important in my life that I
needed to learn. Yeah, these are.
These are huge lessons and. You can be willing to receive
some humility, and you can. There are a couple ways to get
humility. You can get it face to face,
honest with other people and the world, or you could get it
rammed up your ass. Yeah, exactly.
And often, especially for people with addictive personalities, we
take the beating and the world kind of beats a little bit of.
Becoming humble kind of gets beaten into us in the beginning,
right? Well, it's like.
Very spiritual thing, to seek humility for the sake of having
humility. That's a wild idea that makes no
fucking sense to someone walking in the room for the first time.
I don't know what that means when I'm new, I'm not here to
get humble. I'm here to not die.
That makes sense. Yeah, I'm.
Here to not die. But don't you think that?
Don't you think that you, who haven't had a drink in 13 years,
still attend meetings, still a part of different programs?
Don't you think that, I mean, you just did a weekend thing.
Who the fuck do you think you are?
And you're 3 weeks sober or, you know, 5-6 months sober.
Here's a motherfucker that's going to the meeting that's
hasn't had a drink in 13 years and you feel like you don't need
it or you feel like you can't get up out of your seat.
You don't want to help yourself that much.
You know what I mean? It's like it's opposite of
humility. It's arrogance and pride.
You know, because you you you don't need to you honestly, I
feel and Dwayne, I don't know you and I don't know your brain
probably pissing people off. When I say this I feel like you
don't need to go to the meetings anymore.
You have all new cells in your body.
Nine years you haven't had alcohol.
In 13 your your body doesn't know alcohol.
You know what I mean? But you still go.
There's a reason, yeah. I mean, you're helping other
people, but there's a but you don't mind going.
There's humble. There's a humility there.
Yeah, there's a You're there to serve.
Some of our favorite, my favorite literature says that we
come to recovery because our life depends on it.
And then, you know, a little bit time and experience goes by, a
little bit of acquiring wisdom goes by, a little bit more time
and experience goes by and. We find that we stay in recovery
because we get such a good life from this type of living.
So I love living this type of life so much I'm willing to
continue the practice. In addition to that, we
inherited debt when we get plugged into a program and there
are people there giving of themselves freely to help me.
Not die from this disease. We inherit that debt and now I
have to freely give that to somebody else and some of the
some of them would like it. Some of the common sayings are
the only way you can keep this thing is by giving it away.
And that's a paradox. But at the same time, that's for
Jesus. Yeah, exactly.
You cannot. You cannot transmit something
you don't have. So if I'm trying to help people
now, I'm no longer here, 'cause I'm selfish and dying.
I'm here to be of service and help.
Well, I better have a message of help.
Well, that's the alchemy, the not the transmitting, but the
transmuting. Like, it's like all of a sudden,
this sickness, this disease that was going to kill me, transmutes
into something that becomes a blessing and a help.
It's 1 of and not only does it just save me, but it saves
hundreds of others. It's one of my greatest assets
when 13 years ago it was the thing that was going to kill me.
It was the worst thing in my life.
That's spiritual alchemy. It's awesome.
Very powerful. And that's, that's one of the
miracles available for anyone seeking recovery, for anyone
hesitating to go to a meeting, for anybody afraid or or just,
you know, spewing excuses. I couldn't possibly.
It's like, OK, well, you don't get to change inside and
reinvent yourself into something that's going to cure yourself
and even potentially the world. Like, OK, fine, you don't get to
have the hero's journey. Keep giving yourself the excuse.
We have to get willing, as willing as the dying can be, to
do something fucking different. And when we become willing, our
actions change. All of a sudden you make the
two-minute walk. All of a sudden you're on the
computer logging on, looking up Google search.
Where do I find recovery program in my city?
How can I get access to this phone number?
People are so willing to help in these programs, Jason, it's
incredible. They will come pick you up.
And drive you to the meeting, plug you in and meet like minded
people and then drive you back there.
It's insane how how much how much love and kindness I
received walking into these rooms when I thought I wasn't
even worthy of of living. It was just immeasurable amounts
of grace being poured on you. Yeah, they say by humans that
were addicts, bro. Think about that.
They're displaying grace, the most selfish.
An addict is the most selfish person in the world, right?
Maybe like a baby. Well, yeah, yeah, because
they're they're they just want everything.
Like babies are ruthless. You have a two year.
Old That's a good argument. That's a good argument.
It's like, which is different, pretty close on the scales.
So you take an addict, that's the most selfish person in the
world and they're becoming this giving and loving person.
Yes, and the meetings did that. And that's another paradox the
the, the, the design for living does that.
The meeting place is where you find the people that are going
to. It's the container for the
alchemy. To happen exactly.
That's that's that's basically just the public service
announcement for the actual work that needs to be done in order
to change. And that takes place inside my
heart, inside my mind, and that takes place all day long if I'm
willing to practice. And that's that's what's
available for individuals seeking, seeking help.
It's like it's like Sisyphus. The guy who pushes the rock up
the hill, and you were talking about humility.
This is the same thing. It's the guy pushing the rock up
the hill and then it rolls back down.
It's like got to get no, no, I think it was young Carl Jung
said. Well, no.
We need to view Sisyphus as happy.
He has something to do. He has a load to carry.
It's an opportunity here, yes. You have to view him as wanting
to push that rock up the hill. OK, I got another rock.
There are plenty of loads for us to carry, so you have to it it.
It's just very helpful to have that perspective.
In regards to man, this is a lot of work, man.
This is challenging, man. What do I have to change?
Fucking everything. It's like pick up the heaviest
load you can. See if you can carry it but that
but you've no because of your addiction that became the
catalyst to change others. If you wouldn't have had that
your addiction, then you wouldn't have been able to help
the tons of people that you've helped.
And part of this again Jason is is another nice example
potentially. It's a nice example of humility.
And I didn't change them like, yeah, of course.
Yeah, all. I did was show them what worked
for me, yeah. And they have to have the
willingness internally to take action or not.
And then you showed them love. Yes, absolutely.
And it gave me purpose. It gave me deep purpose.
Purpose I've never known before. My life was worth living again
because of the purpose found in recovery program and the
willingness inside the individual.
It it it, it promotes them to have their own relationship.
With their own perspective of spirituality.
It's not mine. I have my own God.
I have my own interpretation of spirituality and path and
practice and and disciplines, and they get to have an
experience of their own. And it's magical.
And yeah, and everybody has their own.
And you don't want to miss it. I'm telling you now, you do not
want to miss this. So if you're a 10 minute walk,
20 minute walk, you're basically a 2010 or 20 minute walk away
from love. Unconditional love.
From healing from heat, Yeah. Yeah, from From a life.
Oh my gosh, from a life worth living.
I'm sitting in my room pulling fucking wings off of flies,
about to kill myself. You can't be happy.
You can't be satisfied. You can't be feeling good about
yourself. Yeah, in In the depths of
addiction, death is a step up. And the only, the only thing
that's going to, the only thing that's going to help you is
love. I mean, that's the highest
vibration is love. Very powerful and it's 1020
minutes away. Yeah, and and and it can be so
frightening to experience that love when I think I'm
undeserving. Yes.
And that's kind of that would be an excuse.
That's the exactly. That's the gasoline for the
excuses. That's like, I'm way too afraid.
I know I don't deserve that. And it's it's like the God
consciousness inside of you definitely deserves it and
definitely knows you deserve it. I I remember the the old guy you
were telling me about that when you kind of came off the wagon
because the I I don't deserve love and I I I narcissistic me,
me me. It's like to be honest with you.
He wouldn't say this to you but it's kind of like get over
yourself. Shut the fuck up, have some
humility and sit here the fuck Because we've all been here.
You're not special. They told.
That's exactly what they told me.
They were like, sit the fuck down and shut up.
You don't have anything to teach us anyways.
You need to listen now. Yeah.
And and that message resonated for me.
I I can handle the tough love. That's what I need to hear.
Well, that that creates humility.
And then in in Magic happens in humility, baby.
Like there's that spiritual alchemy begins to happen.
He loves walking down that humble pie Rd.
That's when. That's when we forge our you
know of who we are as a person. Yeah, very true, Very true.
It's in those moments it's humility, a wild journey.
You're like, you're probably like, oh fuck, I better sit down
better. Listen, yeah, I didn't want to
challenge them, for sure. One of my favorite definitions
of humility is just being right sized.
I'm not King Dwayne. Not super sized.
Right sized. Right sized.
Yeah. I'm not King Dwayne.
I'm not the most important person in the room, but you
don't get to, you don't get to piss on me either, right?
King Dwayne? I'm not a doormat either, right?
Like I'm just a part of. I'm just a bozo on the bus I'm
just a member of and that removes a lot of pressure.
That removes a lot of selfish, self seeking, egoic thinking.
Oh it's all about me. It's all about me.
It's like no, it's not about you.
You're just a member of. Sit down.
Shut up. Be a member of.
I think that would help. Like, for me, the tough love.
I like that. Like I was in the Marine Corps
and all that. That would help me with the
meetings because it instantly puts me at a level of surrender.
Very good, you know what I mean? So I know I'm not special, OK?
Shut the fuck up, Jason. Just go and sit.
I don't have to say shit. I don't do anything.
I just want. I'm introverted.
I just want to sit here and listen.
But I know I'm in the right place for me right now.
Like there's no better place for me to be.
I'm on, not in a bar, you know, I'm not doing coke in a bathroom
somewhere. I am sitting in a meeting.
This is the best I can do right now.
So be happy. It's a lot better than those
other sordid places. It's a lot better.
Even if my skin's crawling, I'm taking the appropriate action.
And we'll say, you know, you don't think your way into good
living. You live your way into good
thinking. That's good.
And I so I have to start acting as if first, if I'm waiting for
my brain to heal itself, I I'll wait forever.
We got it. We got to act as if in the
beginning. That's good.
And then that transformation takes place together.
The mind, body and spirit. Those things can start to heal
together. We got two more.
We did 24 minutes on. Lack of access.
OK, OK, this is. I love this.
That was good. That was powerful.
Negative experiences. Some addicts have had negative
experience with meetings or programs in the past, and so
this makes them reluctant to give them another try.
I've heard this excuse over and over and over.
Guess what? You treated people shitty too.
Way, probably way worse than that person that embarrassed you
in the meeting did. Where was that other person's
level at in that moment? Were you ultra sensitive?
Were you not? You know what?
Did you really? Were you making it all about you
when they were trying to help you?
You know, 'cause you can take something wrong.
Somebody could be very loving in what they say, and then you
could take it all wrong and get butthurt over it for no reason.
You know what I mean? Like you could have got butthurt
when that guy said. That to you.
Like, sit down, shut up. Yeah.
Instead, so this this negative perceiving as a negative
experience. Plus 10 minutes you can go to
another meeting. Exactly.
That's that's what I was going to say is, well, it's the
beautiful piece of recovery is you get to vote with your feet.
Yes, it's like, OK, you don't like that place or you like that
or you don't like that individual.
Go to another one, Go to another one.
We've already established that there's hundreds online.
Countless. Thousands, yeah, countless
avenues to find this help. So vote with your feet, go to
another one. Another component of that is,
you know this perceived negative experience.
I want you to talk about the Catalyst piece about.
Positive catalyst. Negative catalyst.
But what I wanted to say was, well, I'm.
I'm constantly comparing my insides to these other people's
outsides. It's like they've got their shit
together. They're smiling, they're
laughing. I go, Oh my God, this is I
don't. I don't belong here.
This person said something cruel to me.
They weren't even talking about me, you know what I mean?
I made it all about me because I was just a self absorbed in my
head. It's like, I I get that way
sometimes. If I go to like a Louis Vuitton
store, our Chanel store, you know, 'cause every, the, the
least expensive thing in there is like 800 bucks, you know?
And I'm like, I'm not worthy to be in here.
Right. You know, like I felt
uncomfortable. Right now I I want to go to like
Sears or Walmart. Sure, sure.
I love Walmart. I I can fit right in at Walmart.
You know, this Louis Vuitton store is out of my you know, I I
I get this nervous weird like feeling, you know, 'cause and
for no reason. Yeah, but if your life depended
on being in that Louis de Vuitton store, yes, Yeah.
Who the fuck cares what you feel like?
Well, that's what I'm saying. It's like and then that.
It's because the Louis Vuitton store is just selling expensive
clothes and purses and shoes. It doesn't give two fucks about
me. So this is a problem I have with
worthiness. Very good.
Not feeling worthy, very good. Because if I, if I had, if I had
$20 million sitting in the bank, a Louis Vuitton purse for my
girlfriend would be nothing. You know what I mean?
So it's not like it's it's the problem.
It's I need to go inside, And that's what you're saying.
I need to go inside of myself and see the reason why.
But what if I'm turning around and and saying what?
What the quote that you say all the time is?
Everything would be OK if it wasn't for you.
Right, exactly. This is that same thing I I
would go to a meeting if it wasn't for in, you know, 10
years ago, Bill yelled at me. He's it's you're just playing an
addict. You may not be drinking or
smoking or you know, doing whatever.
You're still playing an addict by playing a victim.
Yes, very good, Jason, very good.
That's what you hit the nail on the head there.
So these negative perceptions spill over into my victim
mentality and as long as I remain A victim, I never
recover. And and it goes more than that.
The self-awareness aspect of this, and this is something I've
really been working on, why am I getting upset when this person's
talking? It's because of a belief that I
have, that I gained and everybody's beliefs are totally
different. I can go to Japan, they have
totally different beliefs than I do.
I can go to India, I can go to Australia, I can go to the UK,
London, I can go down South A paired to LA.
And it's a totally different all beliefs are as how you were
raised with your parents. It's like a hodgepodge of all
kinds of stuff. Books you've read, things you've
watched on TV that resonated with you.
So why does a conversation? I mean, we have really good
conversations, but why does it have to?
Why does your conversation have to resonate with me for me to
feel like it's a good conversation?
The negative conversation can be just as good as a positive
conversation. Yes, this is the me taking it
personally, me taking the conversation personally based
off of a belief that I have is me saying that I'm separate from
you. Yeah.
You're getting into some deep end.
Yeah. And then that's me.
That's not me loving you, right? Right, so love would be a love
would be non judgement because all of suffering comes from
judgement. So, so for me not to suffer and
feel like I got my feelings hurt because Bill yelled at me and
said hey hey, meaning he told me to sit down and shut the fuck
up. So I left because I was, you
know, instead of loving Bill and thanking him for caring for me
enough to call my bullshit out because he knows I'm playing a
victim because he played the victim 10 years before that.
You know if. You spot it, you got it.
Yeah. So if I'm like actually willing
and able to understand in a self aware way that all I'm doing is
making myself separate and and this is what I was talking about
earlier, is a catalyst is a learning lesson and a catalyst
is something you face and and there's polarity and and there's
bad and good things. You need roots you know as above
so below you need the roots, the leaves the tree.
The below is the roots. The above is what you see the
trunk but the things that are happening under the ground that
microchondria or whatever they call it you know the the the
cells that are happening in the root level that's making the
tree the roots die. The tree dies, but all we see is
the So the below is just as important as the above, so that
root or the negative. Part The negative.
The negative catalyst is actually a good thing for you.
Like the Bible says, all things work together.
Yes, that's so powerful. That can be just as
transformative, if not more. Yeah, Bill's saying to shut the
fuck up. Can be, I don't know his name.
I'm just making. It.
But that's what I remember from 13 years ago.
More than oh, nice to meet you. Very good.
Nice.
He was very kind. Yeah.
No, I remember the old crotchety
motherfucker that changed my life.
That was that was so transformative.
And you need it. Necessary, Yes, That's what's
necessary. Especially when on the steps of
death, it's like you can change or you can die.
What's your fucking choice? Well, you know, we have St.
Michael's right here, and we, we've been talking a lot about
Saint Michael's, and I've been reading a lot about archangels
and stuff. Really cool.
The Bible says that we can entertain angels unaware.
You don't know that that person that told you to sit down and
shut the fuck up could have been an Angel.
Sure. And just been sent there as a
because they're messengers of God.
So what would an Angel give you? Is it going to give you
something that's going to make you feel all warm and fuzzy
inside? No.
A fucking angel's going to give you the truth.
Yes, and it's going to be life changing.
That guy, whether he's an Angel or not, who knows.
But that guy was an Angel to you.
Absolutely. Something happened in that
moment of those old crotchety words that he said that
transformed you. That's a message from an Angel,
you know. Yeah, I don't possess that type
of planning or direction. That's all.
God. Or forethought.
Or, like, 13 years later, he'll be speaking about this with
Jason in front of a microphone. Is he gone?
Is the guy gone? Yeah.
He passed away and I was at his bedside when he died.
See. That's amazing.
Yeah. It was so powerful.
He saved my life a few times. Countless times.
But. But think about that.
That's a miracle. But you could have gone the
other way with when your pride and been like, well, fuck this
old dude, I could kick his ass. Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm I'm sure I felt that way
a little bit. I was like, he didn't know the
fuck I am. And he knew exactly who he was.
I was him. Well, yeah.
Yeah, exactly. So there's a word here, and I
want to kind of get into it, reluctant to give them this
might make them. Reluctant to give them another
try. In your selfish addiction, and
whatever it may be, whether you're addicted to pornography
or whether you're addicted to eating like I am, food, whatever
it may be in this addiction, I don't.
I don't give other people a second chance.
I'm so judgmental in my addiction that I'm just fuck
you, fuck you, fuck you. Fuck you.
Fuck them. I'm done with them.
I'm not going to reconcile. I'm not going to forgive.
I'm not going to give somebody a second chance, even though I'm
hoping that people with somebody will reconcile with me.
Somebody will forgive me. I I don't.
This is something I I I've pondered.
And maybe you have an answer for this, Dwayne, Why am I so
selfish that I'm willing to just write people the fuck off, you
know what I mean? In in in addiction.
Like, am I worse when Jason Ed is worse?
It's like, fuck everybody, you know what I mean?
To the point of being suicidal or whatever it may be, you know,
I've been multiple times that. But it's like, why is there
this? I need grace and want grace and
want love, but then I'm like, fuck you.
You know what I mean of. Course, yeah, yeah.
You know, every every individual's going to have a
little bit of a different answer for that question, but the
reluctancy or the the quickness to write people off might be.
My inability to take responsibility.
I'm just in. AI don't even see it usually.
It's like Osiris. I'm turning a blind eye to my
judgement, to my ego, to my desire for control, so I don't
have to admit I'm wrong. Because I'm not going to dare
fucking be wrong. It's just you're wrong and don't
ever speak to me again. I used to say this is my
verbatim. I used to say in Dwayne Ball,
you get one fucking strike. And if you if, if you get
strike, you're out. And my world was lonely and my
my world was miserable and my world was what's wrong with me
is you. If only you behaved better, I
would be OK. And I had nobody had the
opportunity to receive grace from me, 'cause I wasn't
offering grace, I was just offering judgement.
And you weren't on the high flying dude, of course.
My my vibration was you're you've fucked up.
And I'm going to tell you that, and it's like, I won't grace,
but I'm going to be like the opposite of.
That countless relationships doing that and then could you
imagine how they that relationship would feel when you
know you're just one strike away from being done?
Miserable. You don't want to be with me
anyways. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was like a precursor to dating Dwayne.
One strike and you're done. Let's interview her now.
And. And anyways, besides the point.
But my inability to take responsibility for what's going
the crazy thoughts, the judgmental thoughts, the
controlling thoughts. In my head, I'm the one with the
judgement. I'm the one with the expectation
of you and your behavior. I can possibly just have a
little bit of compassion and see.
Oh well. He too, like myself, is sick.
I'm dealing with a sick person. How mad do you get at someone if
they have Alzheimer's? Yeah, you shake them, You say
you. Idiot.
You got Alzheimer's. What's the matter with you?
But I treat people that way when they're selfish, right?
When they're in addiction. When they're unconscious, it's
the same thing. It's just a different form of
illness. So why am I getting mad at
someone for having an illness? Yeah.
It's that belief or expectation that you're putting upon them.
And yes, and it's a lack of compassion.
It's like trying to make 2 year old use the potty in one shot.
Like I'm going to show you this once, 2 year old, then from here
on out you're not going to make a mistake.
Yeah, you're going to go potty perfectly every time.
Yeah, exactly. It's not going to work.
Unrealistic. You're going to use a big
toilet, not the little. Yeah, unrealistic expectation
and and it takes a lot of work to 1st analyze my judgement,
recognize that I'm the individual.
With the problem, Mm hmm. I'm the individual with a
resistant behavior and resisting reality and then to want to seek
forgiveness or seek understanding.
Or seek compassion so that's not a normal thing.
I wake up doing like I don't wake up saying, God help me be
compassionate. Like, So what if I went?
Takes a lot of work. What if I went to Bill?
Let's use him an example, whatever his name is.
What if I went to Bill and I said a year ago I came to this
meeting and you were here and I got really pissed off at you and
I just want to say I'm sorry and I apologize and I thought about
you. You don't even know who the fuck
I am. Probably.
But what if we apologize to the person?
It's important to check our motives.
In regards to the apology, you don't owe an apology.
What'd you do wrong? You showed up and sat down and
this guy was rude to you, right? Like you didn't do anything
wrong. So you do not owe an apology for
assassinating him. In your mind, you would owe an
apology if you assassinated his character to someone else.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Behind his back. However, it's important to just
check our motives. What's my motive for
apologizing? To be lesser than no no.
So you might owe him a thank you instead of an apology.
And I want to thank you for those cruel words you told me
because it motivated me and changed my life.
I love that. And and you know, the best part
about an uncomfortable conversation usually is we don't
die afterwards. You think it was good?
Yeah, it for most, that's transformative.
Most of mine are good, if my heart's right.
Correct. The Motive is right.
Yeah, that's the Crucible. That's where we change and
evolve. And I don't die after those
uncomfortable conversations after I tell Bill, Hey, do you
know you said the thing that really upset me?
Well, it motivated me to come back.
Or I did. I came just to prove you wrong,
motherfucker. Yeah, exactly.
But tons of people get sober that way.
That's awesome. It's so let's look at the last
one is stigma. Mm hmm.
So there's a lot of stigma associated with addiction.
I saw I watched a show a program a while back on meth moms.
You know they call meth moms and these are moms that are trying
to operate at a high level. And so they're taking meth and
then trying to stay up all night and clean and cook and take
their kids to all these programs and they're trying to be like a
24 hour mom. You know, well you know what's
going to happen, crash and brush baby.
So, but there's a stigma. There's the stigma with abusing
substances, you know, whether it's drugs, alcohol, food,
whatever. It may be that they're going to
be judged or discriminated against if they reach out to
someone. Right.
So to me, this is the stigma excuse is 1.
Yes, it's embarrassing. But motherfucker, you need to
swallow your pride because the first thing you learn is I can't
do this. I the only thing that's going to
help me right now is God. That's it.
Like I had to. I've had several points in my
life where I've had to say, and I was.
We were talking about this last week, I think at the gym, where
it's like, my prayer is like, I surrender all, like I just
surrender to you, God. I I started using that once.
You said it, yeah. That's like, I surrender to you.
I don't know why I'm thinking these crazy thoughts or why I'm
being pissed off, but I just surrender all this like my
emotions, my brain, my body just surrendering to you.
God, because I can't fix it. I don't.
And the moment? I don't know.
All I know is I feel shitty. You know what I mean.
Yeah. Navigating the spider's web, you
just it's it's like it's too I'm too stuck.
So seeking clarity in regards to the stigma again it's usually
well I have fear. I have a lot of fear about
admitting right what's really going on.
Yeah. And I know there's different
programs and stuff like that, and there's a program where it
isn't like the. The first step, or something
like admitting that you can't. Yeah, for most 12 step programs,
that's usually the. First step is you have to be
like a step of admission. Yeah, I can't fucking.
And that step of admission means it's kind of like a movie
ticket, like when you get the IT.
Gets you into the theater? Yes.
When you give the guy the ticket and he rips it says admit one
like you get let in to the theater.
But it's like I can't. I can't handle this.
Only God can I I have to let the knowledge of my illness into my
heart. I have to come to 100%
realization that I have this thing.
I have this illness. It's no longer this ego, this
moxie. I'm going to figure it out This
time it will be different. I'll, I'll, I'll find a way to
handle all that's done, All that's dead.
I tried it 1000 times. It deals never worked.
Ever. So the admission pieces.
I know in my heart that I have alcoholism and there's no
getting rid of it. Now what?
Now I come from a place of information, I'm informed, and I
can take more informed action as a result of my admission.
So the stigma is once you know, oh, I couldn't possibly say or I
don't want to be, I'm not AI, never lived under the bridge.
I'm not that bad. I'm not that.
And it's like once you come in and get honest, you find out
you're just like everybody else and we and there are people from
all walks of life. So it doesn't matter if you come
from Yale or jail this thing, this thing is still available
for you. There's a recovery program
available for you and you know the the recovery's not possible
as long as I'm still looking for the differences.
Yes. And you know, I noticed when you
look at like famous people that die early because of, yeah,
absolutely. Addiction do say, let's say Jim
Morrison, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix.
All three died eight years after they got famous and started
using substances and alcohol. Yeah, and it's so and it's so
sad because there's this massive amounts of talent all went to
waste. I had a eight-year drinking
career, so is that my body couldn't take any more.
It just gives out. Yeah, I was in the hospital.
That's crazy. I got as close to dying as I
ever want to get. And it and it it's amazing
because. And it's like, hey, I'm Janis
Joplin. I'm, I'm, I'm not.
I'm putting words in her mouth. So I don't know if she said this
or not, but it's like, well, I don't want to be discriminated
against. I'm too famous.
You know, I got the next, like Elvis Presley got addicted, you
know, with drugs. And he's like, I don't want to
let people down. I got to do this next show, you
know, So if I, you know, the doctors, the doctors back then
would just, you know, prescribe you all kinds of stuff.
You know they were given like meth out and everything else,
you know and pills and Quaaludes and list goes on and on.
You know, like candy. And so the next thing you know,
you're like, well, the doctor prescribed it to me, you know,
and then next next thing you know, you're out on the streets
or you're barely making it. You're doing all these weird odd
jobs. You know, I I was talking to an
addict a while back. It's so interesting.
The conversation doesn't make fucking sense.
Like you're in circles and you want to like, shake them like,
motherfucker, listen to me. Right.
You're all you're not making sense what you're saying until
any anyone is willing to ask for help.
Yeah, and even then still, there's still a lot of, like,
cloudy, really poor cognition. But if you have the stigma,
that's normal. If you have the stigma and
you're thinking, well, I'm going to be judged or discriminated
against, you're not ready. You're going to have to get
slapped upside the head with the two by four.
Very good. Yeah, very.
God's going to have to You're not.
You're not willing enough? No.
Because you got to be like, well, I don't give two fucks
what people think exactly. I need this.
I I can't do anything. I need you.
God, I need help. Then you're ready.
All it takes is everything you got.
So that that fear of what are other people going to think
about me That very quickly goes out the door when I'm doing it
because my life depends on it. Yeah, it's funny in the Bible,
when you look at Moses and Abraham, yeah, Yeah.
They weren't ready. What did they have to do?
I mean, Abraham was, what, 80, like a old senior citizen
before. And then Moses had to go out in
the desert for 40 years. And both times both, both men.
God said Jonah the same way. Everybody you look, David, you
know, God both times said, hey, here's your purpose, here's your
mission, here's what you're going to do in life and I'm here
for you and I'm going to help you.
And I'm your supernatural and I'm speaking to you and I'm God.
And they're like, no, not ready. I need to go.
Fuck off, Sabor. For 40 years he went around the
desert and then he comes back, He's like, OK, how many people,
how many children, visual people died, right?
Because he wasn't ready. Hundreds of thousands.
Of slaves and and and you know, and he wasn't ready, so you may
not be ready. Maybe it takes a 2 by 4 up the
head. Maybe the 2 by 4 up the head is
you get into another meat suit. Very good.
Yeah. Unfortunately that happens a
lot. That happens a lot.
Well, I mean every day. And and that's OK too.
Yeah, not that we would suggest that tactic, however.
We just say it takes what it takes.
And unfortunately it takes a lot.
It takes a lot 100% to change. And God, you know you can.
There are ways to advert years of suffering and one way might
sound something like God, I need your help.
Like sometimes the best prayer is God.
I need your fucking help. Like God please help me God,
please help some. That might just be the best
prayer of all time. Another real good one that
worked for me was God make me teachable.
God make me teachable because I had so much game and just so
much moxie and my ego wasn't going to allow me to admit I
can't figure this out and I had to become teachable, had to
become willing to try something different.
Dwayne's way was not working, so I had to reinvent my life.
And I'm not going to do that alone.
Yeah. And I don't want people to close
in this Joanne, that's so powerful.
If you're struggling with addiction, please know that
you're not alone. There is so much help.
That's what we're trying. That's the main objective of
what we're trying to say is there is help available.
It's not a one-size-fits-all approach to addiction.
There's there's what works for one person may not work for
another. And it's important to find a
program that is flexible, adaptable for your individual
needs. And the main thing we're we're
trying to tell you more than anything is reach out for help
today. There's help that is there for
you. Have humility.
Surrender yourself, ask God for help, and it will be there but.
You've got to do the work very good.
I believe that anytime we do ask for help, that's an act of
humility. That's good.
That's me getting right side saying Dwayne can't handle this
on his own. I need some help.
And our lives get really big when we start living that way.
And that's exactly right. I'm so glad you said that,
Jason. Just seek help.
Seek any type of group support. There's there's church, exactly.
There's countless avenues for spiritual development.
And I know now, now, that it's my spiritual development that
keeps me sober. Yeah, for me, for me, church was
really important. When I was, when I wherever I
became depressed and suicidal and homeless and all that.
Like a church helped me out tremendously.
So, you know, everybody's different.
Yes. And everything that they have,
you know, a program worked good for you.
But we both had to go. You had to have that moment of
like, I'm fucked, I'm Jonah and the whale's coming after me.
Yeah. I am not in in line with God's
purpose at all. That's the that's the the belly
of the beast. Yes.
Yeah. And then we revive our lives
with the culture and the knowledge and the wisdom that's
available to us. And it's just our job to go seek
it out. I just have to go seek some of
that wisdom. I just have to go seek some of
that knowledge, and God has a magical way of bringing it to me
when I'm ready. Hmm.
Yeah. That's so good.
Thanks, Joanne. Thanks, Ro.