Recovered Addict Podcast we got. Dwayne Yardman, Frank in the
house, Who else? Jason Rigby here.
I want to get into today and I think this will be interesting.
I mean, you know this, you've lived it for 13 years.
Why so many people fail? They go to a meeting, they spend
10s of thousands of dollars in a program and then week, 2-3
weeks, month, two months later they're using again.
So I think this is a this podcast is going to show you the
blind spots, the things that you're not thinking about, the
motivation for you to be self aware enough to catch on because
your mind is going to play a trick with you.
The ego. When you're in your ego, you
can't solve it. Your ego can't solve your
addiction. Very good.
Yeah, very good. The ego exasperates the
addiction. Yes, it makes it possible.
If I'm in my ego, I also have to be unconscious.
And usually, at least for me in my experience, the unwillingness
to change, the failure, the unwillingness.
Yes, The unwillingness to change, the failure of attempts
to enter recovery programs. I have all those experiences.
All of that had my ego wrapped up in it.
All of that involved a denial of of and a lack of reality.
I can't really see reality, so I'll figure it out.
I'll be big enough. Dwayne and his own devices will
figure this out, right? I have to figure it out, Or you
know, I deserve this. I can do this.
I can handle this. I'll just drink beer, Not
alcohol. Awesome.
I'll do weed, not coke. I'm big enough to figure this
out, yes. And then I substitute one
addiction for the next. Yes.
Yes, absolutely. So we, we all know more than
anything, if you're motivated enough, you can solve anything.
So you know motivation is the key ingredient.
Somebody that's really motivated to give up their addiction and
you can white knuckle it you know hundreds of people that's
white knuckled it and have been motivated enough where they've
gone through addiction programs they've gone to the meetings
they've and they've just kind of I got to change like I have to
change and in that motivation they've done it.
But there's that's that's a that's a a way that you can do
it. And I think motivation is dirty
fuel and I may be wrong so correct me on this but there's
like clean fuel you can put in your hot rod or you can put
dirty fuel in your Ferrari and and your Ferrari will run for a
period of time with The Dirty fuel.
But and you know this with gyms you know with motivation alone
is not going to get you to the gym because motivation comes and
goes with emotion. You know I'm not motivated to go
to the gym myself. You are.
But I I have not got to the point where I'm excited to go to
the gym. That's very good.
That's a very good I have to go to the gym, but I'm not excited
to go. Yeah, it's very Eat ice cream.
Nice. Me too.
It's very good to just understand the difference
between motivation and dedication, and I believe that's
what you're touching on here. And motivation is an emotion,
and human beings don't feel the same emotion 100% of the time,
right? Like.
We're just up and down creatures and that's the way we'll always
go through the world, so I have to be willing to navigate my ups
and downs in regards to my emotions.
Motivation is an emotion, but discipline is an action.
Yeah, it's like you were just telling me about the weekend
that you went through with with addiction program that you were.
You spent a whole weekend in the mountains.
And yeah, I was very blessed. So you had somebody that had 54
years. Or 53.
Yeah, 53 years, 53 years of recovery, recovery and.
And absolutely not having alcohol, drugs and alcohol.
And then you had somebody that had one day.
Now the person with one day because you guys love them so
much, they are motivated in that moment not to use.
And probably during that weekend they would be motivated enough
not to use. Now the person with 53 years, he
has the dedication. It's Kanaka.
He's a week from that meeting, not going to use no, more than
likely with 53 years. Yeah, 'cause he's gone through.
Now she is going to face when she's all alone in her
apartment, Not, you know, And that motivation wears off.
You see what I'm saying? Absolutely could use again the
odds of those two, the 53 years and the one day motivation's not
going to help either of those two people you see.
Do you see what I'm saying in long term?
What we're interested in doing is creating a new lifestyle.
Yes, 100%. Creating a new way to navigate
the world. And in my addiction, I navigated
the world with a substance making me OK, right?
That makes sense. Yes, this substance in order to
be OK, in order to live in the world and now we enter recovery
program and I still have to live in the world without the
substance. So learning new tools, new
disciplines to navigate the world are what we're talking
about. So really, it's the design for
living. I'm interested in redesigning my
paradigm, redesigning how I approach reality.
And yeah, motivation can only last so long.
It will only get me so far. Let's say a couple weeks, let's
say three months. I've made it three months,
totally white knuckling it before.
And I was living at home with my mom and she was like, you can be
here, you can stay here. I love you, but you can't drink.
I said OK, I won't drink. I had no spiritual solution.
I had no exposure to any type of program or support group.
I was just white knuckling. It motivated to have a roof over
my head. I was such an asshole to be
around because my emotions were so raw.
She kicked me out of the house three months sober, and I was
like the whole point of having the house was I wasn't going to
drink. And then it was very easy for me
to say, fuck it, I'm drinking. Yeah, because.
Because I lost the house anyways.
Well, the purpose got taken away.
Correct. I and I was no longer motivated.
Yeah, I mean you were in self aware to understand that.
But no. So motivation can only get us so
far. Yeah.
And I want to get into why addicts, why they don't seek
help, why they stop going to meetings, why they drop out of
the program. And #1 and I want you to talk
about this, Number one is denial.
Addicts often deny that they have a problem.
They, and this is a big one with me with food addiction is they
minimize the severity of the addiction.
And I think that's really, really important.
And so they it makes it difficult for them to be honest
and get help, because if you're denying it or you're minimizing
it, it's the same thing. Very good.
I want to touch a little bit on
what the you just said. Honest.
Yeah, I'm in denial. If I can't honestly see my
behavior, if I'm not willing to look at the harm that I've
caused in my addiction, then I can't be honest with how serious
it is. So one of the nice tools that a
recovery program should be presenting people is the
opportunity to get honest about their bad behavior, about their
delusional reality. And you know, many recovery
programs meet, they they tell you to meet pen to paper.
They say write it down, write it down.
You get an accurate survey of your conduct over the last
decades, however many years it's been.
Of of my unconscious behavior and then I can I get a actual
real view of harm that I've caused the real?
Selfish decisions that I've made.
It's black and white and it's right in front of me, and I can
no longer run from it. So it's like Morpheus showing
Keanu Reeves Yes. What's really happening.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
You're you're you're waking up.
Yes. You're waking up to reality.
And if I'm in denial? A I'm definitely not going to
write that shit down. BI can't even see it.
I can't even see. I minimize how my how bad my
behaviour's been. It's OK.
Well, I'm not under a bridge. Yes, I drink all the time, but
I'm not under a bridge. I'm not willing to be honest
that my drinking has pushed away my family.
My drinking has lost every good job I've ever had.
My drinking has wrecked multiple vehicles.
And harmed others in the process, right.
Right. My drinking has got me.
I I woke up with blood on me. Whose blood is this?
Do you know? I don't even know whose blood?
This is my drinking take. My drinking takes me all sorts
of insane places. And until I'm willing to see
that accurately, I'll behave in denial, because the denial gives
me an excuse to continue the bad behavior.
So the denial. I like this.
So the denial allows you. It allows you to look at your
ego and say, yes, I can continue to do this.
It's it's an excuse. To continue the addiction.
Absolutely. So the denial is the dishonest
matrix. It's it's you living the lie.
Yes, because opposite of honesty is lying.
So it allows you to lie to yourself and then allowing to
yourself you can play a victim or you can do whatever you want
because there's no responsibility and it's just the
denial is just one big excuse to continue the party if you want
to say yeah. Absolutely.
Jordan Peterson studied the malevolence over the 20th
century. He was very interested in how
World War 2 and Communist China and and all all sorts of
horrific events took place. And he says, do you know how?
Nazi Germany became possible. One malevolent decision at a
time. Yes, I have to be able to turn a
blind eye in order to participate in the willing
destruction of myself. I I I'm slowly killing myself
with drugs and alcohol, and I had to be willing to turn away
from the God consciousness inside of me that knew.
There was a better direction and that's the same as denial.
So denial comes from I I want you to think of you like early
20 year old Dwayne. Is it so much fun to party and
drink that you want to deny it because you don't want to give
it up? It wasn't fun for a very long
time. It was fun in the beginning.
What do you think the motivation to deny it is?
Like like is it like your identity is you're an alcoholic
or? Yeah, that's part of it.
Are you? I mean you.
Use drugs. This is just who I am.
This is what I do. My old self has to die in order
for and I don't want to have that happen.
No, In order for me to be born into something new, it's very
painful walking through death. So it's avoidance of pain, it's
unwillingness to change. Part of it is also just, I don't
know, There is another option. I have come down like I've gone
down the rabbit hole so far for so long, like I've lived this
way for so many years. Our alcoholic life is the only
normal one. I don't know there's a different
type of life. So our addicted life is all I'm
used to. So my old self literally has to
die in order to be born. Yeah, and that's tough.
And and that dying process sucks.
Yeah, like I don't want to feel that way.
I'd rather feel numb with alcohol in my system than feel a
responsibility. And we can perpetuate that for
years. Yes.
Yeah. I see what you're saying.
Evidence denial. Evidence denial I couldn't
possibly change. The only thing an alcoholic
hates more than change is the way things are.
That's so true. I love.
That fight about reality, and I'm going to fight it.
Having to change it. Well, that's the second one.
So denial was the first. The second one is fear of
change. Very good.
You're just right on. You don't even know that you're
doing this. But addicts may be afraid of
what their life will be like without drugs or alcohol.
They may worry about losing friends, their job or their
home. So I want to get into this.
Why? Why am I afraid?
Why am I so afraid to not have drugs or alcohol?
Like what? Is it the fear of the unknown or
I don't know who I am or why do you think a person would want to
keep that? Like what's the fear of change
like? Yeah, this is you know, this is
a a big, a very big topic and a very big issue for anybody
trying to enter recovery program and it was hard accurately
looking at myself. And figuring out that I've made
every single decision ever based in fear that we like to say that
we all face that, that would be the same.
Same with me. Fear is the corrosive thread
weaving its way through the fabric of our entire existence.
Like it's it's in every part of every part of the every decision
I've ever made. And it's it's hard to look at
that. It's hard to look at that.
I make decisions based out of fear, some of the recovery
language says. Selfish and self-centered fear.
So I have fear of losing what I have or fear of not getting what
I want. And in my addiction, what I have
is connection to the bottle. Yes, that numbs me out so I
don't have to look at the uncomfortable harm I'm causing
in the world, the selfish decisions I'm making.
I don't even have to look at it because I don't have to feel
those feelings. I don't have to be in reality.
I can check out SO. A I'm afraid of facing reality.
B I'm afraid of losing what I know works, And unfortunately,
if we go down the rabbit hole enough, it's not working
anymore. I'm killing myself.
I'm isolating myself, right? I'm losing the things that
actually care or create a whole full life, family, love.
Responsibilities. Those things all start falling
away because I'm willing to prioritize the drink over any
type of spiritual development, any type of love development.
I I don't know what it is to have a connection with someone.
Those things are all foreign to me.
If I'm behaving selfishly in my alcoholism, yeah, for me, fear
of change was. And this is what I I I talk to
myself this way as a man is. I'm being a coward.
If I'm operating in fear and I'm not willing to evolve and adapt
like creation does, You know, all of creation.
God created this earth, you know, and it evolves and adapts.
That's that's part of life. If I'm not willing to change and
I have fear of change, you know, then for me personally, it's me
being a coward and I don't like me being a coward.
I don't want to be the person that hides when it gets tough.
You know what I mean? I don't want to.
I don't want to be the person. I watched that video and it was
so horrific. Of the guy walking in France and
stabbing little kids in the playground and people just
running away or. And there were men I hope that I
would be, you know, and I've been in the military, so I've
confronted those things and been in combat and all that.
So I would think that I would go towards that person and try to
stop them with a knife. Then I would run away as a
coward and let him stab little kids.
I don't want to be the person, and that's what I visualize like
I want to stand up for my family.
If I if it's sacrificing my life or my family, I want to be that
person. And if I'm in my addiction, I am
that coward. Absolutely.
I am not going to. I'm going to be self-centered
and selfish and run away. I'm not going to stand up and
take responsibility when I need to in that moment.
And that's embarrassing and it hurt.
It. It hurts like at me as a man.
You see what I'm saying? That type of existence is
tragic. Yes, exactly.
Not only is it tragic, it's disgustingly selfish.
Disgustingly. That's a good It's just for me.
It's just for me. I could save my family, or I
could. I could preserve me and get out
of here, right? And I choose me and it, and it's
it's a betrayal of all that we hold sacred.
It's a betrayal of all that we held him, and that's what you're
doing in your addiction, though. I'm turning my back on God.
I'm not willing to shoulder responsibility to connect other
people or or or be of service or or live in this world in a in a
productive way, in a sacrificial way.
I just care about getting me mine.
It's a very selfish existence and.
You know, there are a lot of analogies that we use and have
used in previous episodes, but it's worth reiterating.
Fear is often like a curtain. I think of it as a concrete
wall. Like, I can't go through this.
I don't know what's on the other side of that wall.
I I can't even get through this wall.
It's a barricade and it's good. If I try to go through that
wall, it's going to really hurt. And that's usually my denial and
my delusion because I'm so afraid of change.
But. We say alcohol can often take us
close to death, and that death can often be very motivating.
That's that initial motivation that you might walk into a
program with, into a recovery program with, and that that
motivation can't help open the door.
So if I'm motivated to take action and do something
different. Maybe I'm motivated to try and
attempt to go through that wall, regardless of the amount of fear
involved in the process. And then when I actually take
the action, I figure out, oh, you know what, This isn't a
cinder block wall. It's always that way.
This is like a curtain fear's an illusion is always.
Yes. I don't know what's on the other
side of the curtain, but I can get through a curtain.
I can step through that. The nice acronym for FEAR Future
Events Appearing real, right? That's not real.
That's a wonderful spiritual tool that we have that we like
to share with everyone. If if you're in your mind, if
you're thinking about how could I possibly change, how could I
even get through today without drinking or get through today
without the sugar, without whatever it is?
Nice tool for us is. That's not real.
Can I spot the crazy thought? Can I be separate for at least a
moment In my mind? From my mind, there's a fearful
thought. Well, you can get used to
anything. I mean, like, I mean like in
combat it's like first time you're throwing up super sick,
like freaking out, and then after a while you're making
jokes, having fun, hopping on the helicopter, not even caring.
Like almost like you're Superman, which is a fault, you
know, But it's like, you should still be kind of scary.
But. You can get used to anything.
I remember you telling me the story of that golfer that
flubbed it, you know? And then the difference in the
money between the 2nd place and the 1st place.
This is like last year or. Something, yeah, yeah, you know,
at the end he like with the tournament or whatever, he ended
up. I don't know if you remember
that story or not, but I think it was, wasn't it?
Last year he lost millions of dollars.
He was way ahead, yeah. And then at the the last day or
something, he choked. Yeah, this happens really often
in golf. Like yeah, they they say they
call it A50, a 54 hole lead. It's like you've it's a four day
tournament and you've been leading for three days and then
you have to go home and you have to sleep and you have to prepare
yourself to play that 4th day. And you know on the other side
of that fourth day is like a $15 million prize.
Can you imagine making $15 million in four days?
Yes, yes, I can imagine. Yes, I'm ready.
I'm ready. However, not all the time, but
often they they lose that lead and they don't win the money
because I had that long of a time to be alone in my mind.
But it's fear. And to sit in the fear, and to
let that fear manifest, to let it fester, to let it surface.
Worry. Yes, yes, Worry pretends to be
necessary. And.
In those moments, I have an opportunity to turn towards God.
And we believe that the God consciousness inside of us is
not capable of existing in fear, you know, and and this is like
the fear of change in losing, like you know you're already
losing, like you've already lost your family if you're if you're
in your addiction. And the friends that you're
going to lose are not friends. They're not real friends anyway.
That's such a good point. You're just trauma bonding from
addiction, you know? This guy is going to steal my
wallet. And that girl over there, I know
she's slept with everyone in this room.
But God, these are my friends and and what if I lose all my
friends? And it's like these ain't your
friends at all. They don't even know what
they're not everybody's unconscious, so no one knows
what true friendship is. In those environments I'm I'm
there to see what you got from me.
It's like how how many? To take from you friends, did
you get and understand through your 13 years and in working
with programs and stuff that you've worked with and and in
addiction recovery and all that, How many true friends did you
make? I've made some very powerful
connections and lifelong friends.
Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm think, not I.
Called Boom. I know they'd be there, not the
guys you were snorting coke with.
No, those guys don't even know anymore.
I don't remember their names, and the ones that I do, I don't
know where they are, but how deep are the two relationships
compared to? Yeah, there's no comparison.
There's no comparison. It's like a puddle compared to
the ocean. It's like the depth that I have
with with those friends now, you know, I tell them my deepest,
darkest secrets and they love me anyways.
Yes. Yeah, see, that's the awesome
part. It's powerful where you would
never share. It's just your connection with
the bottle or the drug with the friend that that's wild.
So #2 is fear of change #3. This is really important.
Shame. Addicts may feel ashamed of
their addiction and embarrassed to seek help.
They may worry about what others will think of them.
Very good, very good. I'm very concerned about what
you are going to think of me and I think that causes addiction
cause I've talked to some pretty heavy duty addicts.
I'm talking like meth users, you know, like heroin users, stuff
like that. And that was, The thing is like
they they wanted to be the life of the party.
So they wanted to use alcohol or wanted to use drugs.
So they'll be accepted. So, you know, this comes.
I think places like I'm worried about what others thinking of
me. So I'm going to take this
substance, you know, maybe that blocks it out one or two.
Maybe it's that because people have this tendency.
I think we all do to a certain extent.
But I think addicts maybe maybe this is like a trigger for for
addiction. If you're overly like
empathetic, like what do they call those empaths or something
like that. If you're an empath and
oversensitive to what other people are thinking about you,
maybe that can be a Ave. to lead to addiction.
That's an interesting idea. I think that my brain can be so
loud. In regards to what?
Are they thinking about me? Am I wearing the right stuff?
Did I say something stupid? Are they going to like me?
Oh my God, that was embarrassing.
I shouldn't have fucking said. It's like I had this whole
sitcom going on in my head and I can never be present.
I can never enjoy reality if I'm too busy with this manufactured
thing, this manufactured story in my head.
I'm not much, but I'm all I think about, right?
And. We also call that the itty bitty
shitty committee. It's like it's non-stop in my
head and it won't shut up and then boom, I get exposed to a
substance and it goes away. So it definitely can contribute
to my addiction because that's the time my brain shuts up.
That's the time my shame or worry goes away.
Yeah, we call. That's why they call alcohol
social lubricant. It's like, boom, I instantly fit
in. I had more money than I really
did. I was taller than I really am.
I'm stronger than I really was, and everybody likes me.
So when you, because the embarrassment is part of the
shame, you're not wanting to be embarrassed.
And I remember you telling me that you're one of your mentors.
You know, he talks about this. Saved my fucking life, man.
So switch the perception. This is about shame and
embarrassment in regards to going into recovery.
And it's like, oh, I have shame about admitting.
I have this issue. I have.
I have guilt or I have an unwillingness to address this
real issue. Oh my God, I'm an alcoholic.
Oh my God, I'm a drug addict. Oh my God, I'm a gambling
addict. I can't.
Oh my God, I'm a sex addict. I couldn't possibly share this
with other people. And you know, we have to be
vulnerable in order to be willing to change.
And when I share that vulnerability with someone.
Even though the fear and the shame is still there, maybe
that's me getting close enough to God, getting close enough to
the shoes of inner being that there there may be some type of
transformation that can happen for me.
There's some type of magic that takes place for me.
I remember going back I had I had five months, 20 days sober.
I relapsed because. I was working 80 hours a week
and I was not working spiritual principles.
That's why I relapsed. However, it took me two weeks to
get into the hospital, drinking the way I drink, and I went back
to the recovery group that I had been exposed to and I saw.
All the men and women that were teaching me a new way of living
and I felt like I had let them down and I felt a bunch of shame
re entering the program and a bunch of guilt around my
behaviour. And one of my mentors walked up
to me and he said Dwayne, I'm so glad to see you.
And I said, yeah, yeah, I think I got it this time and hit me
real hard in the chest. And he said, you don't have
shit. God's got it.
And he was telling me that I need to get in touch with
spiritual principles in order to save my life.
And he. And then he put his hand on my
shoulder and he said, Dwayne, there's no room for shame or
guilt in this deal because I don't feel shame and guilt that
you're here. You make us better.
And it's a very paradoxical perspective to have that me
entering a recovery program, even if I'm new, even if it's my
first day. That my presence can improve the
environment. And you don't know this at one
day sober. But when you're one day sober,
you give the other people in the room purpose you.
You reaffirm their reason for being there.
Yes, they're there to help the newcomer, because you just
wouldn't want a bunch of it'd be like living on an island.
With the same five people over and over again, you hear the
same message over and over again.
You're not helping anybody. You're there to help the person
that walks in the door fresh. It's like vampires with blood.
It's like the new. New blood?
Yeah, exactly right. You're in a weird way.
You're the FNG when you're the FNG, You're the most important
person in the room. Yes.
And you don't know that walking in the room.
You're just terrified and and riddled with shame.
But do you think that the shame is narcissistic in the sense
because everybody else experienced the same thing in
that room and they all know that, so you feeling that
emotion sitting there is just a form of the ego protecting you
to not open up and surrender. Absolutely.
Yeah. It's just more.
Absolutely. It's just more survival
mechanism. It's like I've survived so long
living this way with this hard outer shell and I don't know how
to bring it down. Of course I'm not going to bring
it down and tell you what's really going on.
What would you like, somebody going into a meeting and being
shamed or embarrassed? Maybe they're walking around
outside, maybe they're smoking a bunch, you know, typical like,
and then not wanting to go in. What's a good affirmation or
something that they could say to themselves over and over and
over again kind of to get them to get in there, you know?
Yeah, that's an excellent question.
A nice helpful tool could be something like God relieve me of
my fear. God relieve me in my fear.
Just saying it over, over and over and over again.
God relieve me in my fear. Obviously my fear is what's
making it difficult to change, Like get in the car, say it
while you're driving, just get in the car, make the commitment.
God relieve me in my fear and then another nice mantra or
affirmation is God make me teachable.
God make me teachable if if I wasn't willing to change and my
life was going perfect. I would not need the group.
I would not need recovery. Like if my life was straight on
track and everything was evolving and I was happy and
growing and and and present. I would not be showing up asking
for help, I'd be trying to offer others help.
So when you when I am entering program for the first time, I
need to be teachable, but the shame is an illusion.
Very good. Yeah.
It's not real. That's not real.
That might be another helpful
mantra that's not real. It's you gotta understand it.
It's it's an illusion. Because no one is like, Oh my
God, look at this person walked in.
Oh my God, look at them. They look like shit.
And they've only one day. There's no one in that room
saying that. So that shame you're feeling
walking into that meeting is false.
It's only on you. You're putting that on you for
no reason. Well, it's not logical.
We It's not logical, but we do have years of conditioning.
Years of conditioning to beat ourselves up.
We say all the time, if anybody was as hard on me as I am on
myself, I'd beat the shit out of them.
So I'd assassinate myself. In my mind that makes sense,
yeah. And and then like because I
think this is so important in the sense of I'm feeling
ashamed, you know? So I I have shame, I'm feeling
ashamed. And this is kind of self aware.
But like me, I would be. Why?
Like, why am I feeling ashamed? Like, I need to get clarity on
that. Oh, you're feeling ashamed
because you just stole from your dad?
Or you you took money from your dad.
You were dishonest with your sister.
You know, you lost three jobs in the last six months.
Like, why am I feeling ashamed now?
Well, OK, that's why I'm feeling ashamed.
But what does that have to do with these people in that room
that wants to help me? Nothing.
There's a disconnect there logically, you know, and being
self aware and that's really hard to do, you know, when
you're caught up in your conditioning and your addiction.
But for me it's like gain that clarity and then take
discipline. Like gain the clarity.
Understand why what? Obviously, like you said, I mean
it's real simple. I wouldn't need to go to this
meeting if my life was going perfect.
There's no reason to step into the meeting.
There's no reason like, I'm not going to cocaine meetings.
I've never had cocaine in my whole life.
It would be stupid for me to go to a cocaine meeting, you know
what I mean? But I'll go to like a food
meeting. And I I was telling you, I had a
surgery and was feeling super shitty, so I relapse with food,
you know, I was like, well, fuck this.
I'm going to McDonald's and I'm getting everything, you know?
So I just ordered everything. And I just, I didn't.
Even unconscious. Not only just ordering the food,
but just eating it so fast and unconscious.
Not even tasting it. Not even enjoying it.
Enjoyable. Yeah, it was just, I had to have
this because I feel so shitty, you know?
And it makes you feel something different.
Yes, exactly. So I get this.
I didn't have any shame because I'm self aware enough to know.
Well, that was stupid. You're an idiot, Jason.
You know, next move on. And I think this gets into the
next one. And and Dwayne, I want you to
talk about this lack of trust. Addicts may have been hurt in
the past and they may not trust the meetings or programs can
help them. What's the whole idea of you
thinking that you're different? Like it's helped millions of
people, but it cannot help you. Yeah, yeah, that's my terminal
uniqueness. I'm so bad and my life is so
miserable that sure it works for you, but it couldn't possibly
work for me. And these spiritual principles
that are laid out in recovery programs are ancient.
A lot of them are Jesuit principles.
A lot of them are Christian principles.
A lot of them are just like, suck it up and be willing to
change. And adopt responsibility
principles like we we always joke, you know, that like, oh,
religion stole this stuff from us thousands of years ago,
right? And recovery programs that are
only like 80 years old. Buddhism calls it.
And I I really like. It's a hungry ghost.
Very good. Yes.
Yes, it's so good when you think about that and the pictures are
like a ghost that you would think like, it's hungry, you
know, like if you look at ancient Eastern Buddhist
pictures, you know of this hungry ghost.
It's just there, like lurking, always wanting more, you know.
And I always picture, I always picture this when it when when I
think of trust, it's like, why do I have such a hard time with
trust? Because I have a hard time with
trust. So it's like, why do I have such
a hard time in any relationship I'm in?
Because it has nothing to do with the person.
It has to do with me because it's every relationship.
So my lack of trust that I'm going to get hurt.
Why do I feel like I'm so separate that this person's
going to hurt me? Because guess what?
Everybody's human like I am, so I've hurt people.
Yes, yes. And they're probably, If I'm
going to be in a relationship when they're going to hurt me at
some point. But hurt, it's an illusion in
and of itself. If, but if I'm just waiting for
that, if I'm defensive and waiting for that hurt.
And then my ego wants to look right there.
See where she fucked you over. See where he fucked you over.
Look at that. There you were waiting.
You know, I was talking. We were talking about business
partnerships. You know, I have to like Lone
Wolf it because I'm worried. I've been hurt multiple times,
but I didn't look at him as learning lessons.
I'm like, fuck that motherfucker, you know, he stole
$76,000, you know, out of the bank account.
And I didn't even, you know, I had.
I had no money. And then that money's gone.
There's no way to get it back, you know?
The person's in jail now. But but even then I can't look
at it and be like, see you, you motherfucker.
You're in jail, you know, here I am smoking cigars at Vintage
with this person. Get in a know them for years,
Christian person, get into business with them.
Next thing you know, they steal money from me, you know?
So it's like the hurt is my an illusion.
Or like I'm going, this person cheats on me, you know, that's a
big one. You know, like, Oh my God, I'm
so hurt because this person cheated on me.
They would have done that whether your name was Susan or
Bill or Jim or Mary. That's very good.
You know what I mean? So why like, like when you think
of like, trust, like being hurt, like an addiction, do you see a
lot of people with like their arm out trying to enter
addiction slowly because they're worried about that getting hurt?
Almost everyone, almost everyone, so I'm not unique.
No, you're not unique. It's a very rare thing where
someone comes in, they're just like, whatever you got, I'll
take. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, sometimes people are that desperate, and it's wonderful.
We call that the gift of desperation.
And you'll eat shit if we told you you eat shit.
If eating shit gets you sober, please as much as just shovel
it. Come on and however, usually my
unconscious behavior. In my addiction has exposed me
to some real malevolence. I've actually experienced some
real bad shit. Whether that means other people
being cruel to me. And what it usually means is me
being cruel to others. Yeah, that's the same with.
Me. That's what it usually means for
most addictive me being not open and cruel leads to.
The hurt it leads exactly. I caused it a lot of times by
being evil. If you want to use that one
evil, or or or or just cruel, just cruel.
My behavior was unconscious and it caused harm, and so I was so
guilty of causing harm to others.
Why in the world would I expect or trust this these strangers to
be kind? Why would I trust that this
would work for me? I'm used to just getting screwed
over left and right, so we're simultaneously rewiring years of
bad behavior and years of unconscious conditioning that
this is going to fuck me up. I'm going to get screwed over so
that those things happen simultaneously.
I'm rewiring bad behavior and I'm rewiring.
Unconscious conditioning of this isn't going to go well for me,
right? Yeah, yeah, Be worried about
this. Don't trust them.
Don't try to wait for the other shoe to drop.
This is too good to believe. Too good to believe.
God does not play a 0 sum game. I have two good weeks and then
oh, you better get ready. God's going to get you back to
0. Here comes two bad weeks.
The God doesn't do that. The best indication of how
tomorrow's going to be is how today was.
So if I'm willing to change, if I'm willing to grow.
If I'm willing to practice trust today.
Maybe I'll be willing to do the same thing and head in that
direction tomorrow. Trust is a huge topic.
We could spend an entire hour just talking on that, but it's
similar to the self esteem. It's like you want some self
esteem. Yeah, I'd really like some self
esteem. It's like, OK, start doing
esteemable acts. Start behaving in a way that you
can be proud of the man you are. It's like, OK, You want trust.
You want us to trust you. Start taking some trustworthy
steps. It's like show up.
When you say you're going to show up, do the thing you said
you were going to do. Uphold your side of the bargain.
Trust is the single most important economic principle we
have, let alone not. Like economics, yes, but just
principle in general. Like like eBay is wild.
Successfully is, excuse me, a wild success.
What should have happened is you send me broken shit and I send
you a check that bounces. Yeah, exactly.
That's what should have. And you're talking about eBay,
the marketplace, yeah, eBay has a 98% success rate, yeah, in
regards to items and and likes and whatever.
I I buy love stuff for me, love eBay.
And so what's the common element of that?
It's trust. It's I trust that you're going
to send me something that works and you trust that I'm actually
going to send the money. And if that element, if that, if
that piece is missing, you're not going to receive the gift,
you're not going to receive the recovery.
So I have to have trust in the middle, even if it's an
unpracticed thing for me. Just like being honest.
Just like wanting to fill my heart with forgiveness.
Just like willingness to change. All of those things are very
foreign in the beginning of a recovery journey, but you got to
start somewhere. Yeah, I had a guy, and this was
really cool. I was doing a leadership podcast
and he talked about he trusts people automatically, Like right
off the bat. Yeah.
And I was like, that was like, foreign to me.
And I'm like, no, you got to earn trust with me.
He's like, no, no, no. Why?
It takes too long. He goes, just trust.
Yeah, he goes, yeah, you'll have problems, people will screw you
over, fuck you over, whatever. But he goes, majority of people
like you said, 97% of them, he goes, if you just trust people
right off the bat and just run with them, he goes if you hired
good and all that stuff, then you know you it's going to for
the most part, it's going to go good.
So if you could hop into that meeting, walk into that meeting,
walk into that addiction program, walk into that.
You know psychiatrist or whatever whatever what you're
doing and immediately just display trust.
How would it go apparent to putting your arm out.
Same with the relationship like if you can walk into a
relationship say well this person's a good person, you know
and and I want I want to do a spiritual aspect of this because
I think this is really good and Jesus is a great example of
trust. And we could talk about this but
because I want to go spiritual with this because this is really
important if you believe in understanding.
And something I'm going to get into that's kind of wild, but
third density, 4th density, all that stuff, you know and and we
understand we're in a third density here.
There's a veil of separation that we believe that is separate
from our higher self or God or whatever you want to call it
universe. But if you really look at
collective consciousness. There's no difference between
you or I. I'm just a different reflection
of what? Of what God is.
So if I'm just a reflection of what God is, and your reflection
of God God is, then there's no hurt that can be done.
Very good. And this is heavy duty,
spiritual practices. So for me to get hurt, it's to
me to believe an illusion of separateness from you.
Yes, instead of understanding what Duane was doing is just
expressing his learning in his level of consciousness, but it
has nothing to do with me. But you're like, well, he fucked
me. No, he didn't fuck me over.
He wasn't thinking. About you?
He wasn't thinking yet. Exactly.
Yes. Yes, that's powerful, Jim.
That's a spiritual. That's really powerful.
No one can ever behave beyond their level of consciousness.
And with those people in the past that may have hurt me and
broke my trust. They were just behaving at the
level of consciousness they were at.
And you're you're the guy that poked you really hard because of
the shame that you had. He was willing to forgive you
right off the bat. I didn't even have to ask.
And you said this weekend, you know how people come up, just
hug you off the bat and seen you for years.
Yeah, that's the demonstration of trust.
Yeah, absolutely. There's love wrapped up in the
middle of that. There's like God magic wrapped
up in the middle. Of that, That's for the magic
habits. Yeah, it's difficult to
articulate, but it's a better way to go through life with a
trust practice and get screwed over a couple times.
But be open for the rest of it. Be open for the benefit.
Be open for the change. Be open for the powerful
existence that's available for us, like I found purpose and
meaning when I started trusting people.
Yeah, it's like Ted Lasso, he they have a statement where it's
a funny show, but he's be a goldfish, Yeah.
Like the goldfish is just short, just next.
But that's such a great mentality because it's like, why
am I holding on to the past and then allowing future?
Jason, which is not even the real Jason that was in the past
anyways. In the past is an illusion.
I'm not that person anymore. Like you're not the alcoholic
joint anymore. Your sales are different,
everything's different about you.
So why would I allow that thought that's unreal.
Anyways of the past dictate me not having trust in a new
relationship of something I'm doing now.
It doesn't even make sense when you play it out.
This is very powerful stuff, Jake.
Some of the spirit psychological teachings that we've been
exposed to recently deal with human beings and and and
climbing a dominance hierarchy. And usually the thing at the top
of a dominance hierarchy is the thing that sees and the thing
that speaks. And we're very blessed because
we get to do that here on this platform.
Yes. And God willing, share our
experience with someone else. That might lead to some help.
But human beings can see our brains are actually based off of
vision, and most mammals, their brains are based off of smell.
Vision is one of our highest senses and human beings can meta
see. We can see so well.
We can see into the future. You can just imagine something
in your mind. You and I are sitting at a table
conducting a podcast right now, but in my mind I can be on the
beach in Barcelona. Oh, of course I can see it, yes,
and maybe I'll be there in six months from now.
So I saw into the future like we can Medici.
However, another way to say that is human beings are bargaining
with the future. I'm willing to make a decision
now that's going to benefit future Dwayne later.
We're the only creatures on planet Earth that can do that.
That's awesome. Yeah.
Why not incorporate trust in my bargaining with the future?
Can I trust that if I take this scary decision now, don't drink.
It's gonna benefit future Dwayne later?
Yeah, you'll still have your job come Friday.
You didn't drink. You still have your job.
You can pay your fucking bills. Go back to the recovery group,
learn a little more spiritual discipline.
Wow, I got a friend now. I'm not alone all the time.
What else? What?
How else could my future be benefited if I started taking
trust based decisions? Well, that's trusting yourself.
Yeah. I mean, if you can't even trust
yourself not to drink, then how can you trust someone else?
Very good. I mean it.
It's real simple but. And I and I think and we'll get
into the next one because I think this is really important
and we'll close out on this one. But mental illness, many addicts
also have mental health disorders and and I have one
depression, anxiety, a lot of depression that I've had.
So I get this and these disorders can make it difficult
to stay motivated, stay in treatment and and for me, I've
talked about this too, My depression, a lot of it is self
pity. But they've, they've genetically
shown, you know, with alcoholism, same thing too, like
and we're learning more and more of this.
This is so interesting. The other day I was watching a
podcast and the scientist was talking about what are are
people that like throw up bulimic?
Bulimic that they found that there's a gene that is like 90%
more people will be bulimic if they have this gene.
And it's it's not a lot of gene, which there's not a lot of
people that are bulimic, you know, but that's a horrible
state disorder. And a lot of people, it's like
10 times more than than you'll die from bulimia, 10 times more
than alcoholism, drug ISM. It's like really most a lot of
people 'cause it's you're basically starve yourself to
death, you know? So but you see that's a gene
that that people have, you know? So I want people to understand
that. You don't have to be a victim to
depression or to alcoholism or any of these things.
Yeah, you may have a a meat suit, you know, 'cause that gene
is part of your meat suit. Lean towards that direction.
Yes, you know, but that proclivity.
Yeah. At the end of the day, you you
have something that's higher than that, very good.
And that's the part that we talk about, yeah, getting in touch
with the non physical part of us.
Yeah. Yeah, another the real part of,
you know the epigenetics involved in that non physical
source energy is maybe I have access to the most powerful
pharmacy in the universe. That's good.
I could turn on any genes I want, Yeah.
Currently I'm trying to regrow some hair.
Yes. And I'm praying and I'm inviting
God into that process. I'm inviting non physical into.
So you're going to have like a yeah next.
Next. Next one, guys.
Who's going to have two weeks? Abundance.
I got an abundance of hair. Exactly, exactly so.
Thoughts. Become for me too, bro, thought
I'll try. Thoughts become things.
Thoughts become things.
So I want to be pretty focused on what I'm thinking about.
Am I thinking about man, I'm. I'm struggling and life is so
hard. I hate this.
Or am I thinking, God help me be useful today, God make me of
service, put me in position to be just just make a difference
today. At the same time, we always say,
you know, there are countless platforms and avenues available
for help. And we suggest that if you're in
need of help, whether it be mental illness, whether it be
addiction, whether it be depression, anything like that,
that you know don't deprive yourself.
No, of the wisdom that's all around us there.
There are countless, you know, groups, psychiatrists,
therapists, doctors. There's the availability that is
out there for help right now is more than it's ever been, ever.
And the biggest lie that you can tell yourself is that you're
alone. I'm alone and my mental illness
is kicking my ass so much I couldn't possibly get well.
Yeah. You're not unique.
There's, there's millions of you out there that have the same
situation. And I guarantee you and you're
within 10 miles of you, there's somebody that could partner up
with you, can help you. Powerful, very powerful.
I mean you. You, I mean.
We looked in our town, alone, just under like.
Addiction programs and meetings and stuff like that.
And I think you were telling me it's over 400 meetings a week.
Yeah. And this is like a million
people in Albuquerque. Yeah.
And that. This is just Albuquerque.
Yeah, you know what I mean? There's there's a lot of.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, so I guarantee you
whatever city you live in within a 30 mile radius, there's
someone that could help you. Absolutely.
You're not alone, Absolutely. Some of our strongest, strongest
suggestions also are something like if I'm willing to be honest
and admit that I have a life threatening illness that needs
addressing, and if I'm willing to take action, then I got a
pretty good shot. Regardless of how far down I am
with the mental illness, how how delusional I may be in regards
to seeing reality, if I'm willing to be honest and if I'm
willing to take action, there's hope for anyone, anyone, in
regards to finding recovery. And I want people to understand
that, that you're not special. Like, there are people far worse
than you that have faced horrific.
I've heard some stories that will just curl your skin.
You know, like I was listening to a lady of the day that was.
She numbed her addiction with alcohol because she had like 10
men. When she was little, you know,
take advantage of her as a child.
You know, so there's people that have gone through some heavy
shit and they would be more than happy to have a conversation
with you. Absolutely.
And put their arms around you like you've experienced.
How many, How many people have you experienced that's loved on
you, put your arms around you in 13 years?
How many? Countless, but you can't count.
Yeah, you can't count how many people that you believe have
been honestly loving towards you as a human to to another human.
That that have helped you. It's part of the miracle of the
recovery programs that that love that's available for us.
You can't put a number on it. I have been that they always say
we'll love you till you can love yourself.
And that takes what it takes. It takes exposure.
It takes practice. It takes giving it a try and.
Give it a try that that's a great just try it.
Just go. What do you got something better
to do? You're dying from from this.
Situation and there's zooms, Yeah, there's no.
You don't have to. You can use your phone and go on
and listen and not hook on the camera or put your camera on.
Yeah, there's so many different You don't have to leave your
bed. If you're stuck in bed, get on
your phone, in bed, get on the laptop or whatever and attend a
meeting. And there's an evolution to
that. If I'm willing and I'm seeking
God and I'm seeking solution, there's some magic unfolding
that takes place. And it's like, wow, I got this
guy's number. Oh, wow.
We went to coffee, man. I left my house.
Oh my gosh, This guy knows a therapist.
Oh my God. The therapist exposed me to the
appropriate medicine that helped shift my perspective.
And now I'm, I'm holding down a job.
And oh, man, it's I got the month over.
And like, there's a huge evolution to this practicing of
trust and getting honest and taking action, and you can
revolutionize your entire life and find a life that's worth
living. Yeah.
And if you're thinking about relapsing, I was just a
comedian. He was talking about this.
He's like, I did 2 zooms a day, plus did a meeting because I I
was dying. I was that crazy relapsing.
And he's like if I didn't do that and he did it for like 4 or
five days straight and then it finally, you know, he was able
to have enough spiritual. Principals through that and have
enough people help him, but he's like, I had to, there was tons
of meetings. So I just hopped on one, you
know, and he's like, I was feeling the urge.
I was feeling the urge really bad almost.
He's like, I drove past. He's like, well, I'll just get
some weed. And he, so he drove past the
weed shop and was like parked and then like almost went in.
Yeah. So there's so much help for you.
And now 2023, you can zoom all over the globe.
I could go to meeting in Israel. In Barcelona, yeah, I could go
to meeting in Barcelona, absolutely and and like so now I
got no excuse. It's just it's just me and my
cowardice that keeps me from turning towards the sunlight of
the spirit. That's wild.
Well, thank you, Dwayne. Thanks bro.