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Hello and welcome to the Weekly 
Scroll Podcast. 

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My name is Ryan and joining me 
once again is Jonathan Saha. 

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How you doing today, Jonathan? 
Great, good to be back, ready 

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for the weekend, ready to talk 
about doom. 

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Yeah, ready for the Well, it's I
I work all weekend, but yeah, 

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it's ready to talk about Doom if
you're if you're if you're 

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watching along with us, you can 
see the overlay was doomed out 

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and Jonathan is saying back 
again for the third time. 

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But he was here Wednesday 
because we were play testing the

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prototype Doom arena board game 
that Modifius was kind enough to

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send us. 
And today we're going to be 

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doing is doing a little review 
of the and I want to stress it, 

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the prototype of the board game.
It is not the complete board 

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game. 
It seems pretty far along when I

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stretch goals, but it is the 
prototype. 

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So hoping that maybe some of the
stuff we point out someone, 

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somewhere get something out of 
it. 

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But I don't not not a whole lot 
of people have I guess this 

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prototype box. 
So it's not like you out there 

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in podcast land are going to get
that. 

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But maybe, maybe in the future. 
But so it's a Doom arena board 

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game. 
I want to say once again, thanks

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Modifius. 
Thanks for sending this to us. 

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I fucking love Doom. 
If you watch the play test, 

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you'll see the Dark Ages statue 
I got when I got the collector's

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version of that. 
Big Doom fan. 

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I know that you are a Doom guy 
as well, Jonathan. 

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That's right. 
Yep, that's the first video game

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I ever played. 
I was much too young and my mom 

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was definitely furious with my 
dad about it, but it. 

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Influenced me positively and I I
did not play Doom, the original 

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Doom when I was young enough to 
have played the original Doom. 

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But Doom 2016 for me and 
everything after that really 

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just changed the way I thought 
about even TTRBGS and stuff like

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the push forward mechanics that 
they built into it and the flow 

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state that they have designed 
into into the game and 

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everything like that. 
I I'm obsessed with that and of 

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course I went back and played 
the originals later, but I 

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definitely didn't get, I think I
would have got my ass beat if I 

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would even ask to play Doom as a
kid. 

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And then what? 
And then they would have brought

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me in to talk to my priest about
it, my preacher. 

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But Doom arena board game. 
Let's kick over. 

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Let's talk about it really 
briefly. 

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Then we're just going to get 
into the review the play test we

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did. 
It's about two hours long. 

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It's probably not going to end 
up on YouTube or in the podcast.

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So if you want to watch it, 
check out the vibes on Twitch. 

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I left it up there as a 
highlight so you can just go to 

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twitch.tv/the Weekly Scroll and 
watch the full play test of it 

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there. 
We got through about four rounds

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before we just kind of, you 
know, wrapped up and and talked 

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a little bit about that. 
But but yeah, this is the box. 

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This is a Do Marina board game. 
I'm going to show just some of 

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the stuff that's in the box. 
We're going to talk about the 

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Kickstarter real quick and then 
get into it. 

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Dope box. 
It says prototype on the front, 

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which is cool. 
I love that I have this. 

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I love this kind of shit 
Prototype versions, alpha 

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versions. 
Some of my favorite stuff on the

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mini shelves behind me are these
kind of things like pre 

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production pre print stuff. 
So having the prototype is 

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really cool. 
Some of the stuff that's in here

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real quick. 
First of all, I mean the the box

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itself is it fucks super hard. 
Yeah. 

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They they really obviously used 
a lot of the Doom art, but 

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really captured all the way 
through a lot of the really cool

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stuff about Doom. 
I I like that they did not try 

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to do their take on Doom and I 
was just going to. 

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Say that I was just going to say
that they they knew that the art

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was fine on its own. 
They didn't try to like gasify 

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it or anything like that. 
They left it alone. 

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And I mean, it's great because 
it's some it's some of the best 

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pixel art out there. 
It's so classic and it stands 

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the test of time. 
Yeah, I definitely you know, 

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this is a side note we don't 
need to do but like that's the 

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reason DC you failed was fucking
what's his face doing his take 

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on DC instead of just doing DC 
which which again, what if he's 

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doing great in Doom here? 
So what what comes in the box 

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real quick is a bunch of 
miniatures. 

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Obviously it's all beat to hell 
because I opened it up when we 

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played it, but you get a giant 
map. 

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This one comes with one large 
map and I think the Kickstarter 

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says you get too small and too 
large or too small a medium and 

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large, something like that. 
You get cards for all of the bad

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guys and the doom guy. 
You get tokens for everything 

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that you need tokens for. 
You get the dice. 

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Remind me to talk about the dice
later because I'm obsessed with 

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the way that these dice work. 
I'm actually going to leave them

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out so I can talk about it. 
And then you get the minis and 

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the minis are actually, they're 
really good. 

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They don't know if they're, I 
don't know if they're printed or

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injection molded or what they 
are because and I, I only say 

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that because I don't see any 
areas where they're where 

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supports were taken off. 
But I also don't see any mold 

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lines. 
So they either had a lot of 

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post, you know, post production 
off the line to get rid of all 

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the mold lines and stuff or, or,
or I don't know, I don't know. 

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I mean, I'm not a big board game
head so I don't know what a lot 

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of pieces are made out of 
sometimes, but. 

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No me neither I would I would 
love like an upgrade in the 

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future or a possibility for like
a pewter mold like something 

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heavy like die cast stuff would 
be cool. 

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Well, just just make a mold of 
it yourself and then cast it. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
A heavy metal chest of life. 

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Yeah. 
So this is the cyber demon. 

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Show that guy off and then I 
just want to show at least one 

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of the Doom guys. 
This is the Lost Soul again. 

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Really, really nice. 
Crisp, like extremely well 

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detailed miniatures pieces. 
Definitely going to paint the 

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shit out at ease, especially if 
I'm going to get doubled up on 

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it now since they sent me this 
one. 

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I've got to show off Pinky also.
We we talked about it a little 

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bit. 
These guys are definitely 

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getting to BBL with some green 
stuff before I paint them 

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because pinkies, Pinky Pinky's 
Pinky's quads are killing it, 

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but his glutes aren't really 
doing the deed. 

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And then where's the Doom guy 
Shotgunners. 

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Sinful demons then make them 
sinful man. 

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Yeah, got. 
To get a little junk in the 

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trunk there pink here is doom 
guy all right and that's the 

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last one we're going to go over 
yeah so that's a regular one and

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then you get enraged one too. 
But again the the the molds are 

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great. 
If I got a bunch of these I 

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honestly would probably like 
throw some space marine shoulder

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pads on and like convert this 
guy into anyway. 

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Then it comes with a bunch of 
cards like all the item cards 

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you need for the game again, all
the bad guy cards with with 

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pictures and all the spaces that
you can put tokens directly on 

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the cards. 
The cards are actually super 

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usable for the game. 
So that's basically the Doom 

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Arena board game. 
That's what comes in the 

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prototype. 
It's felt it's interesting, it's

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cool. 
I like it and let me get this 

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out of the way and we'll talk 
about something else real quick.

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Let's. 
Run to the Kickstarter. 

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Yeah, run to the Kickstarter so 
that out of the way, then I can 

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read, search with my mic where I
actually want it to be and we'll

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look at the Kickstarter page. 
So again, this doesn't need our 

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fucking help, you know? 
It's at 200 and so it's 

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$225,000. 
It was 6 days left. 

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It's over 1000 backers doesn't 
need our fucking help. 

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But in case you were wondering 
about it, I will say I was 

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backing it already. 
And I'm pretty sure once we 

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finished playing, you were like,
all right, I'm going to go 

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fucking back this right? 
Yeah. 

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So it's if that says anything, 
you know, then you're you're 

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welcome, I guess for for our 
opinion that swayed you into 

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spending money. 
But it's a it's a doom Marina 

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board game. 
It's two editions of the 

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incomparable doom franchise. 
Basically, you can get a 93 

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version or a doom dark ages 
version with different mini, 

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slightly different rules as with
the same base core set for each.

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And there's just an ass ton of 
minis and a bunch of add-ons 

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stuff. 
You can do the PDF that we're 

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going to be going over. 
You can get the rule book PDF 

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directly in the Kickstarter 
page, so if you do want to check

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it out, it's right there. 
And and the Kickstarter, just 

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like the base premium edition 
Kickstarter if you want the 

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miniatures is like 80 bucks, 
basically US 6060 lbs. 

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Or you can get a standard 
edition that gives you one 

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miniature and the rest are all 
standees, which is a good 

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substitution for only 60 bucks. 
So you can basically save 20 

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bucks by knocking the 
miniatures, but we'll talk about

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kind of the rest of it going on 
with that. 

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But you know, I, there's so many
miniatures and so many adds on 

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add-ons at this point that it's 
going to be hard not for me to, 

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to just go for the all in pledge
at $434. 

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I'm I'm fighting it every day, 
but, but we'll see. 

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We'll go over this later, but I 
mean like, especially because 

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coming out of the playing the 
game like any, any kind of like 

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negative, you know, any 
criticisms I have about it are 

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things that like I fully expect 
to be ironed out in the complete

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version, like, just as like a 
teaser of what comes ahead. 

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So like with you, I don't think 
I can spend $400.00 on it. 

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But like I understand the 
sentiment where you're looking 

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at it after you're playing and 
you're like, I could see how 

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this would get a lot of play 
time at my table. 

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That's the thing. 
And, you know, yeah, we'll talk 

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about a little bit more, but the
the amount of expansions and 

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things that they're adding to 
it, it's very much, you know, 

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we'll talk about it a little bit
more. 

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Let me get rid of this browser 
window, get out of the way, and 

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let's pull up the actual PDF 
real quick so we can get into 

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the game a little bit. 
So we just intro the game. 

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We talked about the Kickstarter.
We did everything. 

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So what is the Doom Arena board 
game? 

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So this is the part of the show 
where I usually do a little 

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breakdown, but honestly, this is
a good document for the most 

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part. 
Like at least the content of the

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document is good. 
And they do a really good job 

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actually, of saying what this 
is, you know? 

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So I'm just going to fucking 
read that. 

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When we go to this, there's 
credits page, there's a contents

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page, there's a table of 
contents that's hyperlinked. 

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The entire thing is bookmarked, 
which is great. 

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The whole document, it's 25 
pages. 

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It's like 29 actual pages, but 
25 numbered pages with all the 

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stuff they need for the game. 
But there's an introduction. 

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Welcome to hell, but this is 
what I want to get to Components

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list, blah, blah, blah, blah, 
blah, blah. 

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You can download the PDF. 
But what is this game? 

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The Doom Marina Board game is a 
competitive combat board game 

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for two players. 
The players will play to the 

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best of three rounds of arena 
combat, controlling either the 

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Doom guy or the Demonic hordes. 
When we play tested, Jonathan 

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was a Doom guy and I play the 
demonic hordes. 

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The goal is to hurt your enemy 
as much as possible and win the 

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most blood in each round. 
The player who has the most 

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blood in two rounds since the 
overall winner of the game, so 

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it's best of three and everyone 
can respawn, so it's just who 

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deals the most damage. 
You know who earns the most 

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points, which is a cool way to 
do it, because in Doom, no one 

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ever, none of these things ever 
really die, right? 

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Like, it goes on forever and 
ever. 

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On each of these rounds, each 
player will take six turns, 

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alternating between them, and 
each turn, look at a number of 

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activations, just one for the 
Doom guy and three for the 

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demonic chords. 
When it is activated, it can 

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make up the two actions, which 
include moving around the board 

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and engaging in brutal, 
murderous combat. 

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00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,560
At the end of each round, if 
neither player has declared 

223
00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:14,680
victory, the players will 
upgrade their forces. 

224
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,680
The Doom guy will gain a larger 
arsenal of weapons and upgrades,

225
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:19,760
while the demonic hordes will 
grow a number and attract 

226
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,960
stronger demons to fight. 
That's the game really. 

227
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:29,600
Honestly, it's a pretty 
straightforward game and one of 

228
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,160
the things that I really like 
about it. 

229
00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:36,160
We'll get to that, We'll get to 
that, we'll get to that. 

230
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,480
So again, we play tested this 
already. 

231
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,960
If you we're going to talk, you 
know, as if you're going to go 

232
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:48,160
watch that play test video. 
But let's get into a little bit 

233
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,040
of conversation. 
Some likes and dislikes we had 

234
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,040
about playing the game and and 
all those kind of things. 

235
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,280
So we start with the dislikes so
we can do the likes 2nd and then

236
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,760
into other goods like sandwichy 
kind of stuff, right? 

237
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:04,200
So I'll say my first dislike 
kind of with play testing of 

238
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,360
this in general. 
I think the PDF looks fantastic,

239
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,400
and we'll get into that a little
bit more into when we had actual

240
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,280
metrics because we're going to, 
we're kind of going to review 

241
00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:18,240
this like a normal episode. 
But the PDF itself is fucked as 

242
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,160
far as usability. 
It's so massive. 

243
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,480
Things take so long to load. 
The numbers, Ryan. 

244
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,960
Yeah, No, no, I'll, I'll give 
you the numbers when we hit the 

245
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,720
metrics, but my God, I would say
that's the first thing I'll, 

246
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,480
I'll, I'll say right now is that
I couldn't even like on my break

247
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,120
at work, I was trying to read it
in Discord, in in my Dropbox 

248
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,880
app, and it would just crash 
every time I tried to scroll 

249
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,520
because it just was so massive. 
It was crashing the entire app. 

250
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,760
It's crazy. 
And then otherwise there's just 

251
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,160
some rules clarifications. 
I would say the only reason we 

252
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,640
didn't finish six rounds is 
because we kept getting hung up 

253
00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,880
going. 
This isn't quite clear. 

254
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:01,320
I don't understand how to play 
this. 

255
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,520
You know what I mean? 
Yeah, yeah. 

256
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,720
Yeah, I think the long side 
alongside that, another dislike 

257
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,960
for me is, is like the 
organization of the rules as 

258
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,360
well. 
You know, not to get too nitty 

259
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,400
gritty about it, but there's 
definitely a couple times where 

260
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,200
you and I were learning the 
game, we're going through the 

261
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,840
PDF together and we're like, Oh 
well, it's kind of jumping ahead

262
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,480
of itself or it hasn't even 
mentioned movement yet. 

263
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,320
Like, and I mean, that's a hard 
thing to tackle. 

264
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,200
But like, I do think it is a 
very important part of learning 

265
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,840
a board game, right? 
Because there's all sorts of 

266
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,080
different people coming to the 
table playing board games and 

267
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,040
especially 1 like this, which is
like generally pretty 

268
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,840
accessible. 
I think it could go a long ways 

269
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,840
to maybe introduce some elements
earlier on, at least mention 

270
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,480
them, you know, so people might 
get a taste of what's coming. 

271
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,280
Like, I don't know if I got a 
good example off the top of my 

272
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,080
head, but there's definitely one
or two times where you and I 

273
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:55,360
were going through were like, 
well, what's that? 

274
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,160
It hasn't mentioned this yet. 
I don't know what this is. 

275
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,760
Yeah, we talk about that all the
time when we reviewed RVGS. 

276
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:07,760
And basically if you mention 
something and you're not going 

277
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,080
to talk about it right then 
either, we have one of two 

278
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,080
options really that you should 
do, right? 

279
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,320
There's three things you can do.
1 is just talk about it then, 

280
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,760
right? 
I think the good example is like

281
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,760
tempo. 
Tempo is so far down in the 

282
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,440
document, but they bring up 
tempo way early, right? 

283
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,320
If you could bring up tempo, 
just throw tempo in there, 

284
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,520
right? 
The second option is to say you 

285
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,280
can find tempo, which it does do
here. 

286
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,520
In the unit part it says tempo 
abilities. 

287
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,440
How tempo works is on page 
blank, blank. 

288
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,360
But that's in like the unit 
section. 

289
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,400
It's not really in the more 
rulesy section part. 

290
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,040
So it could be brought up again,
basically every time you mention

291
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,200
something you're not going to 
talk about now, say where I can 

292
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,520
go find it, remind me of that. 
Or the third option is to not do

293
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,440
either of those things and just 
have people stumble through the 

294
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,920
book, right. 
Yeah, repetition is going to 

295
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,600
help people. 
If you mention it once in the 

296
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,560
unit section, mention it again 
in another section, mentioning 

297
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,640
it's not hard to just write. 
Read more about it on page 

298
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,320
blank. 
Like you know, it's it's it's a 

299
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,240
line and 1/2. 
Yeah, yeah. 

300
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,640
And I don't think they fall into
the trap of like, just, you 

301
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,960
know, letting someone stumble 
through the rules like I it did.

302
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,240
It wasn't that bad. 
Like this critique is a light a 

303
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:20,640
light 1. 
You know, there were just a 

304
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,920
couple of moments where I was 
like, oh, what was that again? 

305
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,560
Like we haven't got there yet. 
Yeah, no, I mean, I I, I 

306
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,000
completely agree though. 
But that's what we do here on 

307
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,120
the show is this that we, you 
don't have to, we're a lot. 

308
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,000
We can, we can, we can and all 
that kind of stuff, you know, 

309
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,400
maybe, maybe it'll help 
somebody. 

310
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:38,200
But yeah, I completely agree 
there. 

311
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,680
I think it's not necessarily 
that it's poorly organized. 

312
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:46,400
I just think it's that specific 
thing, like if you mentioned 

313
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,120
tempo, make sure every time you 
mention it until you talk about 

314
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,880
it, you'd say where, where you 
can go find it or that you'll 

315
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,760
hit it later, you know, And even
if it is mentioned in here, I 

316
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,200
think it could be reinforced a 
little bit more. 

317
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,720
I remember what I was, I 
remember what I was going to say

318
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,400
in regards to that. 
I knew there was a specific 

319
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,200
thing. 
And so this is, this is like 

320
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,480
this is not a huge problem, but 
like there are mentions of like 

321
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,800
knock back and blast and stun 
and stuff like that. 

322
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:14,040
And those things are clearly 
explained at the end of the PDF,

323
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,960
which is like, so once you know 
where to go to find those, 

324
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,680
you're, you're good. 
But like prior to that I was 

325
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,800
like, seems like there's a lot 
of terms they haven't covered 

326
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,040
yet that I'm seeing on these 
cards. 

327
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:25,960
So that that's why I wrote that.
I remember now. 

328
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,000
It totally makes sense. 
So weapons special effects is 

329
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,160
listed like all the way in the 
back. 

330
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,480
And I understand why it's 
complete, why it's listed in the

331
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,000
back. 
And like once you read, here's 

332
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,840
the problem, right as human 
beings are not always, a lot of 

333
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,520
them people don't read the 
instruction manual. 

334
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,040
A lot of people don't read the 
instruction manual front to back

335
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,960
before they do something. 
And the way the book is kind of 

336
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,640
laid out and we can talk about 
this a little bit more in 

337
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,280
usability, it's you kind of set 
up as you go, kind of you're 

338
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:57,680
following along with it. 
So to get some stuff way late in

339
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,360
it when it's kind of feels like 
it's designed to have you follow

340
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:03,480
along with it as you're doing 
things feels a little it does it

341
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,720
does feel a little bit off. 
I again, I think a lot of it is 

342
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,080
just communication and 
direction. 

343
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:08,960
Find this later, find this 
later. 

344
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,200
And just cuz you say it once 
doesn't mean that you know that 

345
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,760
the average reading level in in 
the United States is like 6th 

346
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,960
grade, right? 
Like it's sad, but it's it's 

347
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:24,280
true. 
And the average voter ballot and

348
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,400
medical education is right in 
11th grade level. 

349
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,120
So remember that when you're 
writing your books and stuff 

350
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:33,960
like that. 
Not that we're intentional. 6 

351
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:35,680
Not not, not, I didn't mean that
to you. 

352
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,480
I'm just saying just in general,
no. 

353
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,160
No, not at all. 
I'm just saying it feels like 

354
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,320
it's a system set up to trap 
people and to help them not 

355
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,000
understand stuff that they're 
voting on. 

356
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,560
Yeah, I. 
Mean that's. 

357
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,320
That's a different conversation.
Yeah, let's welcome to Project 

358
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,320
2025, right? 
Yeah. 

359
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,400
So I think that's kind of an 
overview of the things we like 

360
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,600
and dislike. 
I think it's just tweaks. 

361
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,240
I think it's just a couple of 
tweaks, couple of tweaks. 

362
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,720
But we also, we didn't talk too 
much about what we liked. 

363
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,360
We kind of just want to know 
what we disliked. 

364
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,040
I'll say just generally real 
quick, the the vibes are great 

365
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,480
of it. 
You know, the layout overall and

366
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,320
the aesthetics of it is great. 
You know, like, yeah, well. 

367
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,480
Listen, we're digging. 
Into more, but yeah. 

368
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,040
I was going to say we're going 
to get into that and all the 

369
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,200
metrics. 
That's why we didn't talk about 

370
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:25,720
it now. 
But I will say I like these 

371
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,680
fucking dice. 
If I have to pick out one like 

372
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,240
specific like that, I like. 
Let's talk about these real 

373
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,200
quick. 
You know what? 

374
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,320
No, I'll talk about these when 
we get to when we get to a rule 

375
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,560
set down at the bottom so we can
do more of the things we like in

376
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,600
the show. 
I'm just along for the ride. 

377
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,000
So let's hop into those metrics 
since we can dig in a little bit

378
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,320
deeper into into that. 
So art and layout is the first 

379
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,440
thing we're going to talk about.
We're going to talk about art 

380
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,120
and layout, usability, the rule 
set, the originality and vibes. 

381
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:54,440
Again, kind of what we do on the
show a little bit. 

382
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,000
But again, this is a prototype. 
This is just kind of guiding our

383
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,880
conversation. 
We're not, we're not scoring 

384
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,160
this or anything. 
It's just kind of got the 

385
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,600
conversation a little bit. 
So art and layout, we said this 

386
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,880
already, the PDF looks 
absolutely incredible. 

387
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,600
The the box, you know, the 
cards, the miniatures 

388
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:14,400
themselves. 
I think top to bottom, I this is

389
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,160
probably more than I expected. 
I didn't think it would be this 

390
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:18,800
cool and I think it's fucking 
cool. 

391
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,760
I think it looks incredible. 
Yeah, when I finally got the PDF

392
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,400
to work after you compressed it 
for me, I then I scrolled down 

393
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,480
to the cards. 
I was like, oh, OK, I can see 

394
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,840
how this is going to go. 
Like, I mean, I wrote down 

395
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,080
basically the same thing you 
did. 

396
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,040
This dovetails into the next 
section, so we don't have to go 

397
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:37,320
into it yet. 
But basically I was like, not 

398
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,280
only are the graphics great, but
the cards are legible. 

399
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,120
Like the stuff is like the 
information on the cards, like 

400
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:43,840
boom, boom, boom. 
No mystery here. 

401
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,560
It's not overwhelming, I don't 
think. 

402
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,480
Yeah, we had a lot of fun with 
the way the the weapons like sat

403
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,720
nicely on the player card. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

404
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,640
I just pulled up the Doom 
Geigard specifically to talk 

405
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,400
about that. 
You know, they do a great job of

406
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,160
of labeling and explaining the 
the card, but like you said that

407
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,200
they make the cards usable in 
the game. 

408
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,320
It is a board game and but 
they're not there just to be 

409
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,640
decoration. 
The the IT says shotgun pistol 

410
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,920
spot and there are size so that 
you can take your shotgun card 

411
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,400
and slot it over the thing. 
So it feels like you're kind of 

412
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,920
slotting it onto your Doom guy 
card and with the bad guys. 

413
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,360
Let me see, does it have a 
demonic court card? 

414
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:24,840
Yeah. 
So it brought up the imp card 

415
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,440
and that number two there with 
the the pentagram, that's 

416
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,520
actually where you would put an 
activation token on the card to 

417
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,120
say that you've already 
activated that guy. 

418
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,320
It's great. 
And again, it's board game. 

419
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,520
Board games do that stuff. 
But I love that shit like the 

420
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,560
tactility of it really, really 
helps my brain again, I wish 

421
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,280
this is the kind of things that 
the teach RBG space needs to 

422
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,000
steal from skirmish and board 
games and things like that. 

423
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,160
Is is these kind of things. 
You know, it's it's one reason 

424
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:50,800
that Mouse Ritter is so fucking 
great just going. 

425
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,000
To say Mouse Ritter, yeah, 
that's why it hits so hard 

426
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,440
because it's the the, the 
tactility of that like because 

427
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,800
anybody who's not played 
role-playing games before then 

428
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,280
has like a, they have an anchor,
they have a point of reference. 

429
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,760
They're like, yeah, I'm not so 
good at like improving off the 

430
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,040
top of my head, but like I know 
what my character has on them 

431
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,720
and I know that I can't pick up 
any more items because like it's

432
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,080
there, it's on my sheet, right? 
Like I'm and then you have a 

433
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,840
direct connection into the game.
And I think that that just, it's

434
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:15,960
simple. 
It goes a long ways. 

435
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,520
It really does. 
And yeah, even just putting that

436
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,360
one activation token on the card
feels good. 

437
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,200
The card, even the cards having 
a back, I think is really 

438
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,760
fantastic because the Doom guy 
card literally shows the back of

439
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,560
the Doom guy. 
Yeah, God man. 

440
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,360
And then the the demonic Chord 
cards literally give you like a 

441
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:34,200
headshot, which I think is cool 
as shit. 

442
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,680
So. 
So yeah, the cards are great. 

443
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:41,160
Visually it's great and and 
actually played with all the 

444
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,360
pieces and getting on the board,
everything, everything felt and 

445
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,520
looked really good. 
PDF looks great again. 

446
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,520
I I think aside from some 
communication tweaks for some of

447
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,160
the rule stuff, I do think I 
mean everything is super 

448
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,280
legible. 
Vibes are through the roof on it

449
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,240
and everything like that, but 
jumping into usability now, 

450
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:58,720
well. 
I'll say one thing real. 

451
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,000
Quick about art. 
Yeah, yeah. 

452
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,560
This is my one big critique 
about art and layout. 

453
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,400
Is the fucking small hexes 
inside of the big hexes? 

454
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,960
I don't understand that play and
it tripped us up and we had to 

455
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,280
have a whole conversation about 
it and we ended up almost like 

456
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,000
kind of house ruling it at a 
point. 

457
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,920
I don't understand why there are
smaller hexes inside of the 

458
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,080
larger hexes that you're 
supposed to move around, 

459
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:21,400
especially when like on the 
parts of the board that that 

460
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,480
doesn't exist. 
You have great texture that like

461
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,360
denotes what kind of terrain 
you're on top of and it brings 

462
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:29,400
some like cool visual language 
to the game. 

463
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,240
I don't understand why some of 
them instead of just being like 

464
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,360
sand or skulls or concrete, 
whatever it might be, you know, 

465
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,400
like a demonic like skin because
they even have like some of the 

466
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,520
demonic skins are like, you 
know, pulled into the PDF. 

467
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,040
Like stuff like that would be 
great on the board. 

468
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,720
And instead you've kind of got 
this weird doubled up hex thing 

469
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,120
that like ends up being 
confusing. 

470
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:56,160
And I don't know if that is a 
product of the prototype or if 

471
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,560
that is something that is a 
placeholder for like new rules 

472
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,960
later where you can have smaller
units that move within those 

473
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,320
hexes. 
I'm not quite sure. 

474
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,240
That's my one big Ding on their 
art and layout. 

475
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,280
If you want to So The thing is 
in. 

476
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,920
One thing that tripped us up to 
though is that the examples in 

477
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,680
the PDF do not look like the 
actual board. 

478
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,040
So for example, I don't know if 
you have the PDF up, but I'm 

479
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,320
showing chat here, I'm showing 
the the stream here on page 17. 

480
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:30,200
There is an image that has an 
example and it is an example. 

481
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:36,680
The image is the map that comes 
in the prototype and in the PDF.

482
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,560
It's just big hexes. 
It's just big hexes. 

483
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,160
So it makes a lot more sense. 
But what we're saying what, what

484
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,440
Jonathan is saying that tripped 
them up, tripped us both up 

485
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,520
because we started to figure out
what the what the fuck was going

486
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:52,920
on is this. 
And I'll, I'll show, I'll show 

487
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,760
it on see how within every hex 
there's like on another like 

488
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,080
wall of like 6 hexes inside each
of these hexes. 

489
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,360
So if you're looking right where
my finger is right this the 

490
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:08,600
white borders is a hex and 
looking at the screen next to 

491
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,800
me, it's a giant hex. 
Let me specifically get to the 

492
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,520
the part in the middle. 
This is basically we have to see

493
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,720
this is what's showing, right? 
But see how there's so many 

494
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,880
little hexes on the board when 
there's not a bunch of little 

495
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:28,080
hexes in the PDF? 
The little hexes fucked us up. 

496
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:31,680
We're literally we have. 
I was like, it's you got to use 

497
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,400
the little hexes. 
It says hexes, right? 

498
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:34,920
Why would the giant hexes be a 
thing? 

499
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,080
Yeah, I will say that that that 
those need to go. 

500
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,600
The PDF version of it looks 
better. 

501
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,400
It just looks better without all
that shit on it. 

502
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,520
I would say if I backed this and
got the board game whenever in 

503
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,000
the future and it had the little
hexes on it still, I would be 

504
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,760
thoroughly confused. 
I would not understand why the 

505
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,640
small hexes are still on there. 
I'm guessing it's a product of 

506
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,560
it being a prototype. 
If I'm wrong about that, I would

507
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,440
like to know why it is like 
that. 

508
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,200
Why would you put little hexes 
inside the big hexes and explain

509
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,360
to move across hexes? 
Yeah, I I completely agree. 

510
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:07,440
That is definitely one of the 
big critiques that we have about

511
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,640
the game in general. 
Yeah, I think we probably spent,

512
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:14,400
yeah, we might have spent more 
time on that specific thing than

513
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,160
just about anything being like, 
no, no, it's this, but yeah, 

514
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,200
usability. 
So I will say the PDF is fucked 

515
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,440
like it is. 
I it first of all, I mean, it's 

516
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,160
great. 
It's hyperlinked, which is 

517
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,280
great. 
The table of constants is 

518
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,680
hyperlinked. 
So for a quick start PDF, always

519
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,400
love to see that. 
And of course in the final PDF 

520
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,880
that would be fantastic. 
So that does help with a little 

521
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,560
bit of like the finding stuff. 
And I'm hoping that there's 

522
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,240
inline hyperlinks, you know, 
those, those parts where it's, 

523
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,040
it's just like, you know, tempos
on page X, you know, XX or 

524
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,480
whatever. 
I'm hoping you just click XX and

525
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:48,960
I'll take you there. 
That's my thought. 

526
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:49,960
They've they've done everything 
else. 

527
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,760
Why won't they? 
It is also bookmarked, which is 

528
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,080
great. 
I'd love to see both. 

529
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,480
So those are all set up on the 
side. 

530
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,520
That's fantastic. 
But my God, I talked about it a 

531
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,120
little bit earlier. 
The PDF that you can download 

532
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:06,640
that was sent to us for review 
purposes and you can download 

533
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,760
directly from the Kickstarter 
for context. 

534
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,920
For context, if anyone's seen 
the Alien RPG from Free League, 

535
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,720
it's another pretty beefy fuck. 
I'll bring it up. 

536
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,120
It's another pretty beefy PDF in
the in the context of like, it's

537
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:27,360
not a white background, it's a 
dark background. 

538
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:30,400
Here you go. 
Boom. 

539
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,240
It's a dark background. 
It's got art all over it. 

540
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,160
It's it's full of text. 
It's got crazy shit all over it.

541
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,280
I'm scrolling through it right 
now. 

542
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:40,880
You see what's going on. 
Cool. 

543
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:46,400
Very busy, right? 
It is 400 pages for that PDF and

544
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,400
the file size on that PDF or a 
400 page PDF is 52 megabytes. 

545
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,880
The decent sized PDF is 400 
pages though. 

546
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,480
This PDF that you download from 
the Kickstarter and again, I 

547
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,840
assume it is just a product of 
the prototype, but if it's not, 

548
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:05,440
please send a different one out.
It is a 29 page PDF. 

549
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:11,480
It is 84 megabytes, 84 
megabytes. 

550
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:21,280
It is 30 megabytes bigger then 
the 400 page alien RPGPDF that 

551
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,960
is a massive, massive, massive 
PDF. 

552
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,600
And if you if you download it 
directly and scroll it, I'm not 

553
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,960
going to because I don't want to
ack about the crash it like you 

554
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,320
can Scroll down and everything 
is just white for a while and 

555
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,240
like one thing on a time like 
click, click clicks. 

556
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:40,240
And I have a good computer like 
and again, even the compressed 1

557
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,640
was so big. 
The smallest I could get it is 

558
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,240
like 17 megabytes, which is a 
big for 30 pages still, which is

559
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,640
crazy. 
But I, I compressed it, I 

560
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,800
flattened it. 
I did everything I could until 

561
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,640
the until everything said you 
can't compress it anymore. 

562
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,640
It says compress it and get got 
it to 17 megabytes and it still 

563
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,120
scrolls pretty slow. 
You know, if I RIP through this 

564
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,800
a little quick, like you can see
there's like a lag to how fast 

565
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,600
things are going and I've loaded
it so much that it's good now. 

566
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,000
But if I close it and bring it 
back up, it takes a while to get

567
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,880
going. 
So I again, I'm hoping that is 

568
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,440
part of of the prototype. 
But if they send a final, yeah, 

569
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,880
they send a final out at 80 plus
megabytes. 

570
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,760
They something you got to 
flatten this in the in the 

571
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,440
background guys. 
Yeah, it seems. 

572
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,720
Like a, a print ready file was 
very quickly turned into APDF 

573
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,760
because they're like, oh shoot, 
we're dropping the Kickstarter 

574
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,880
soon and we got to like make 
sure we have the clickable link 

575
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,160
for the PDF. 
And I think it just, I think 

576
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,640
it's just a product of. 
Yeah, You know what I think what

577
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,760
I think part of it is because I 
did. 

578
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,280
I did. 
If you can see my overlay, I did

579
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,760
steal parts of the PDF to build 
this overlay. 

580
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:49,480
Thank you, Modifius. 
Every line is its own text box. 

581
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,320
And in the background here where
it's got this kind of like 

582
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,240
gravelly part, like every little
gravel part is its own image. 

583
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,960
It's like a million layers to 
make that, because if I just 

584
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,160
would select the entire thing to
try to delete it, it would just 

585
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,160
become black. 
So I'm deleting all of those 

586
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,680
things. 
So there's a million fucking 

587
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:18,280
layers to these pages, and every
text box is an individual text 

588
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:19,960
box. 
Every line. 

589
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,040
I'm not even sure how you 
maintain layers in an exported 

590
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,080
PDF. 
And like, I print stuff for a 

591
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,280
living. 
Well, you just don't flatten it 

592
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,160
like you know, cuz I can in 
Acrobat, I can go to like edit 

593
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,440
and it'll literally break all of
the layers down for me and 

594
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,040
that's what it. 
Is I guess I'm using like clip 

595
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,280
studio and stuff like that and 
I'm not using Adobe programs 

596
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,840
where I'm like exporting PDFs. 
I'm doing it through like a non 

597
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,800
subscription model if I had to 
bootleg stuff cuz I'm poor but 

598
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,720
maybe that's why. 
But I would definitely say if, 

599
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,680
if, if this is the one that's 
going to eventually go out, 

600
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,720
please flatten it. 
Please, please flatten it before

601
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,360
you export it. 
That would be fantastic because 

602
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:02,440
it's 84 megabytes for for for 
less than 30 pages is insane and

603
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,560
almost unusable. 
I mean this, it was unusable. 

604
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,720
Like I literally had to compress
and flatten it just so we could 

605
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,560
use it for the thing. 
But that's that's a big beef 

606
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,080
with usability. 
Otherwise, I love that a 

607
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,400
freaking board game quick start 
PDF is better hyperlinked and 

608
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,520
and better bookmarked than a lot
of the THRPGS we review on 

609
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,400
screen. 
You know, I think that's it for 

610
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,840
usability. 
Again, we talked about the game 

611
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,520
itself being Yeah. 
I think this would fall under 

612
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,120
usability. 
I'll just say again, the cards 

613
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:35,480
are great. 
The cards and the dice are 

614
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:40,120
great. 
Simple, like I love a game, a 

615
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,040
board game that doesn't have too
many components. 

616
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,160
You know, this game is like it 
knows what it is. 

617
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,520
It's just enough in there. 
It reminds me a lot of Escape 

618
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,680
from the Dark Castle where it's 
like you get proprietary dice, 

619
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,760
you get proprietary cards that 
have original illustrations on 

620
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,000
both of them. 
You get a rule set and a board 

621
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,240
and that's kind of that's all 
you need. 

622
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,000
You know, it's not like some 
other being big games like Loom 

623
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,120
Haven or Sleeping Gods, which is
like can be fun and maybe people

624
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,120
are into it. 
They want like a 20 LB box. 

625
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,120
Not for me. 
And I think that like as soon as

626
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,280
I saw the part of the PDF that 
has the shot of the board and 

627
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,360
all of its components, I was 
like, cool, great. 

628
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,720
Like, yeah, you don't need 
anything more than that. 

629
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,120
And any upgrades that they're 
giving after the fact, they're 

630
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,440
just like more of those. 
They're not trying to throw 

631
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,280
unnecessary things on there. 
They're just like giving you the

632
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,680
other cool demons that existed 
in the game. 

633
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,720
So yeah, I think as far as 
usability goes, like beyond the 

634
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,440
fact that the PDF doesn't really
work, I think they kind of crush

635
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,480
it otherwise. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

636
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,920
And it kind of bridge usability 
and ruleset a little bit the 

637
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,680
dice that I love the dice like 
you said, proprietary dice real 

638
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,160
quick did you are did you back 
the the the escape that our 

639
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,800
Castle 2E Kickstarter. 
No, and I didn't and I probably 

640
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,160
kicked myself about it. 
Unless they have like late 

641
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,640
backing or something like that. 
But. 

642
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,200
I'm pretty sure they do is it 
even done It might not be done 

643
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,040
yet anyway let's find out you 
keep I went to the Hilton it 

644
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,160
okay, so I love the proprietary 
dice. 

645
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:16,040
So they are here on the screen 
right now you get low caliber, 

646
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,560
medium caliber, high caliber and
BFD, which is like big fucking 

647
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,080
dice, right? 
Or big fucking damage. 

648
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,280
So what I, I think it's really 
clever and maybe maybe other 

649
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,120
games have done this and I'm not
a huge board game person so I 

650
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,760
don't know. 
But the, the yellow dice is your

651
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,680
low caliber dice. 
It is all of these are 6 sided 

652
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,720
dice, but the way they kind of 
make it work a little bit is on 

653
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,080
the yellow low caliber dice, 
there's only, there's A1 bullet,

654
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,000
which means one damage on three 
of the sides and the other three

655
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,480
are blank. 
So if you roll a blank, that's a

656
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,320
miss and if you roll a bullet, 
that's one damage. 

657
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,400
No, no mat, no, no adding, no, 
no, no, nothing. 

658
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:02,520
Like it's one or nothing. 
So easy, so usable. 

659
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,840
And I'd love that you're not 
aiming for a number, you know 

660
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,199
what I mean? 
There's no like target number 

661
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:10,280
you're hitting. 
It's just if it's blank, you 

662
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,600
missed, and if it's not blank, 
you hit. 

663
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,560
I love that. 
I think that's clever as hell. 

664
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,880
And then so that's three blank 
sides and all ones. 

665
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,840
And then on the medium caliber 
dice, everything is ones, twos 

666
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,760
or threes. 
You get 112 twos and a three. 

667
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,480
So that tells you where the 
balance is on that. 

668
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,639
And it's got 4 dice covers. 
So now you advance the amount of

669
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:35,840
damage you can do while also 
reducing your ability to miss, 

670
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,480
right? 
And then with the high dice, you

671
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:46,520
have a three A3A4A3 and A2SO123 
threes and a four. 

672
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,520
Again, your balance is if you 
hit, you're probably going to 

673
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,600
get a three, which is good, but 
you have an option for a two and

674
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,360
a four. 
And then five of the sides are 

675
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,320
damaged. 
Only one side is a miss and then

676
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,800
in the BFD it's 4 fives and 
sixes and there's you can't miss

677
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,320
like you're going to hit with 
it, but this is your tempo 

678
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,800
ability on the doom guy, right? 
So like this is the big this is 

679
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:07,760
a big deal. 
Yeah, this is 1. 

680
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,000
You have to spend all three 
tempo to get. 

681
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,760
And I will brag that I did get 
to use it while we played. 

682
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,800
And you've merked the fuck out 
of one of my guys. 

683
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,720
Absolutely. 
I just think that's, again, if 

684
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:21,760
other games have used this, good
job. 

685
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,240
I think that's so clever. 
I think the math works. 

686
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,640
I think reducing again having a 
hit just be a blank side and 

687
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,920
then also advancing the damage 
while reducing the the ability 

688
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,360
to miss. 
Leveling up each dice from like 

689
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,200
3 blank sides to two blank sides
to 1 blank sides to no blank 

690
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,400
sides. 
I don't know why this is the 

691
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,360
kind of shit that like makes me 
that like really gets me. 

692
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,160
It's like the little kind of 
just like clever, smart, simple,

693
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,680
non fiddly shit. 
This fucking does it for me. 

694
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,760
If I had to pick my favorite 
thing in the entire thing, it's 

695
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,440
probably these fucking dice and 
how they work. 

696
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:01,720
It just it tickles me in. 
This is like AQ tip in the ear 

697
00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:04,080
for me. 
Like that's what this is, you 

698
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,360
know? 
I love it behind the curtain and

699
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:07,960
what makes you tick. 
It's great. 

700
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,160
I love it. 
I love it otherwise rule set. 

701
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,400
I mean, I think it's really fun.
You know, one thing what I like 

702
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,480
about it, and it does say it 
called itself heavy metal chess,

703
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,720
which I which I, you know, I 
kind of we'll agree. 

704
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:25,240
We'll we'll see. 
I think why I disagree is, yeah,

705
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,720
because I think, I think 
learning chess is not easy. 

706
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,200
Like there's a lot of stuff on 
the board and then obviously 

707
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,600
there's like an infinite shit 
after that, right. 

708
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,000
This feels like checkers to 
start more than anything, you 

709
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,880
know, But to me, I would say 
this, this feels like drumming, 

710
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,320
right? 
Drumming is not hard. 

711
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,400
Being a very good drummer is 
extremely difficult. 

712
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,920
You know what I mean? 
I feel like anybody can pick up 

713
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,640
a stick and and probably bang 
out some notes, but no, nobody's

714
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,560
Neil fucking Pert nobody is, you
know what I mean? 

715
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:04,120
So I feel like this game is like
very easy to learn the basics 

716
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,480
of, but I can see how the the 
tactics go. 

717
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,680
What like even us by the fourth 
round we were like, oh, I 

718
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,520
totally understand how I would 
do so many things differently. 

719
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,160
I love games like that though 
that are really approachable at 

720
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,360
their base level. 
But the more you play, the more 

721
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,600
depth you realize can come from 
the game, and this game has for 

722
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,760
sure. 
Yeah, when the when the strategy

723
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,120
starts to come out naturally by 
playing it, we were like, oh, 

724
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,480
like the very first thing I did 
was like rush your guy. 

725
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,840
And then I got marked into a 
hole like so easily, and you 

726
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,200
scored a boatload of points. 
And I was like, wow, I'm not 

727
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,120
going to do that again. 
But also, I think I said it 

728
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,880
while we were playing, like, 
that's kind of how it goes when 

729
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,440
you play a video game. 
I have some more notes on here 

730
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,840
about like how this rule set I 
think does a really good job of 

731
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,800
like crossing the border between
board, board game and video game

732
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,200
and what to not to not go on too
much of A tangent. 

733
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,920
Following what you said, I think
as you learn the strategy as you

734
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,520
go is a good way to like 
introduce like, well, that's how

735
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,200
I would have played Doom, 
definitely how I played it the 

736
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,960
first couple times I played 
where I foolishly ran in, didn't

737
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,440
know what I was getting myself 
into, got blasted by a guy and I

738
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,520
was like, OK, well, I can't go 
around that corner like that 

739
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,240
again. 
You know, another thing that I 

740
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:22,440
wrote down for rule set is I 
really like the metric of blood 

741
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,520
instead of kills as being your 
way to victory, because that's 

742
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,680
another way that kind of like 
you've got this abstracted thing

743
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,720
that that blurs the line between
board game and video game. 

744
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:34,600
Because like you said, I think 
you mentioned it towards the 

745
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,320
top, like in a video game or 
specifically in Doom, the video 

746
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,200
game, you die over and over 
again, like the demons die, they

747
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,960
respawn, you die and respond. 
And so like the point is not 

748
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,160
like kill count. 
The point is like how much blood

749
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,680
is shed, right? 
You know, and I like that this, 

750
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,640
while that might have been more 
of a narrative thing in the 

751
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,320
video game, I like that they've 
quantified that as like the 

752
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,240
metric for winning in the board 
game. 

753
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:57,600
I think that's kind of a clever 
thing. 

754
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,680
I think it's something that 
could have been like they really

755
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,560
could have picked anything. 
It could have just been kill 

756
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,000
count. 
And instead I think they picked 

757
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,760
a cool metric, and I think it's 
a cool way to bridge between 

758
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,600
board and video game. 
I completely agree, I think 

759
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,760
there's a level of like meta 
here and not in. 

760
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,240
Like meta is like rules go like 
finding the best meta, but meta 

761
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:22,680
in like the like being aware of 
the media kind of aspect of it. 

762
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:27,920
And I I think that that's part 
of it is, is you the doom guy 

763
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,800
doesn't die because this doom 
guy doesn't die in the video 

764
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,000
game. 
You know, we mentioned before 

765
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,000
too, how they kind of mentioned 
in the write up of the game 

766
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,920
stuff that if it was written in 
1993, you'd be totally 

767
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,200
different. 
But we're talking about 2025. 

768
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:45,040
So you got, you know, 30 years 
of doom guy stuff to have the 

769
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,880
context for a lot of what this 
is. 

770
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,240
And I really like that they 
they, they found that line 

771
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:53,400
really, really well of, of 
giving you the nostalgia feels, 

772
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,000
giving you the field of 1993, 
but also giving you the feel of 

773
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,840
like 1993 in 2025 and the video 
game aspects in the game also, 

774
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,240
man. 
If you look at page nine, that 

775
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:07,400
is the starter map. 
Can you imagine how our game 

776
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:08,960
would have been if we were to 
use that map instead of the 

777
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,000
large map? 
Right. 

778
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,040
And that's probably something we
should talk about is that like 

779
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,640
while we were playing, we ran 
into a couple hiccups and that 

780
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,520
was on us because we started on 
the larger map, which is what 

781
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,160
was given to you in the 
prototype. 

782
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,960
Yeah, well, we didn't start with
one of the larger demons, one of

783
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,760
the non mindless demons. 
I don't know if you want to roll

784
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,600
into that because that's kind of
part of the rule set. 

785
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,720
That's definitely one of the 
things that we wrote down where 

786
00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:39,480
like you ran into this issue 
where you had all three of your 

787
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,200
demons were fodder demons. 
And so they were mindless. 

788
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,280
And so they could not with one 
exception because the lost soul 

789
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,000
had a little extra move that it 
could do. 

790
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,480
But otherwise they couldn't move
unless they were able to attack 

791
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,520
1st. 
And so you kind of got stuck on 

792
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,760
the edge of the board. 
And I was really once I kind of 

793
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,280
figured that out, I mean, the 
plays that I made afterwards, 

794
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,520
like I was kind of just sniping 
your guys and you didn't really 

795
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,200
see any chance that would have 
been different had we had had 

796
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,600
you had a non fodder demon down.
And I thought about it a lot 

797
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,440
after we played. 
And I think that if you would 

798
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,480
had like a Kaka demon or a pinky
out, like it would have 

799
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,320
definitely changed the game 
quite a bit because all of a 

800
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,240
sudden you've got this thing 
that can stalk me around the map

801
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,040
and can corral me into corners 
where your guys are waiting. 

802
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,120
And then the game becomes 
terrifying for the Doom guy, as 

803
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,800
opposed to like, yeah, you know,
I kind of felt a little bit 

804
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,600
invincible towards the end, you 
know, for better, for worse. 

805
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,200
And so I think that's the thing 
that it's sort of on us, you 

806
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,040
know, I mean, we're just working
with what we had. 

807
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,800
We were figuring out as we'd go.
But I can see how if you start 

808
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,000
with that smaller map, you're 
kind of funneled into each other

809
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,720
it it would play differently. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

810
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:50,480
A couple of things. 
Because one, I didn't realize 

811
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,160
the Lost Souls movement thing. 
I didn't read the cards well 

812
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,880
enough that before you do 
anything you can the movie, the 

813
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,600
guy flies in a straight line. 
We'll talk about straight line 

814
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,800
in a second for five spaces. 
That would have changed also 

815
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,640
where I put the spawn point too,
because I would have put the 

816
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,480
spawn point where I could move 
five and not end up in dangerous

817
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,000
terrain or something. 
So that would have changed some 

818
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,880
stuff. 
I mean, but that that's why we 

819
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,120
play tested one because we once 
we played it the second time, we

820
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,520
would know so much more. 
But like you said with this map,

821
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,960
if we would have had the small 
map or even just folded our map 

822
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,680
in half and said, fuck it, we'll
just use half a map, so much 

823
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,280
stuff would have been different 
even if we did a level thing. 

824
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,600
But that that I also think 
really plays into the it's on 

825
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,800
purpose. 
They it's the three rounds, best

826
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,000
of three, right? 
You use a smaller 1. 

827
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,760
The mindless can't really move, 
but the doom guys kind of funnel

828
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,520
down towards them. 
So they're going to get he's in 

829
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,040
order to hit. 
He's going to get hit at some 

830
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,440
point, which is going to allow 
people to move around. 

831
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,560
And then when you upgrade to the
ones that can move, why the guys

832
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,960
couldn't move is all of your 
fodder demons have an ability 

833
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,520
called mindless. 
They have to attack first before

834
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,800
they can move unless they have 
special abilities. 

835
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,000
So on level 1, on the first 
round, you only get fodder 

836
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,920
demons, so you can't move. 
So when we use the large map, 

837
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,960
you know, Doom guy, Jonathan's 
Doom guy could literally like he

838
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,520
said, like figure out where I 
could go, look at what my range 

839
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,600
was and just stay out of it. 
You know, if I wouldn't have 

840
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,280
knocked you into that pit with 
those double shotgun shots, and 

841
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,440
that was only because you moved 
your Max distance towards me, I 

842
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,720
would have had zero points. 
I, I would have had like 3 

843
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:29,800
points and you would have been, 
you would have had like 20. 

844
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,760
So the only reason I was even 
close is because I got lucky and

845
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:37,760
shotgunned you into a pit. 
But playing it out in my head on

846
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,480
the smaller map would have 
changed things completely. 

847
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:43,240
And then, yeah, if we were to 
play again, we would just do 

848
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:46,440
what they did in most of the 
videos we watched, which was 

849
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,680
just start at a Round 2. 
But I wanted to play round one 

850
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,120
because I wanted to see what 
round one played like. 

851
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,760
So it works and I really, I 
really like it. 

852
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,520
But getting into some other, 
let's use this time to to really

853
00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:59,400
pick apart some of the other 
critiques we had, like some 

854
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:04,240
questions that we wrote down was
nowhere in the PDF that says 

855
00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:09,600
whether the Doom guy loses or 
even if the doom guy loses tempo

856
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,160
on death. 
Our assumption was probably 

857
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,360
because why would you keep it? 
It doesn't make sense, but it 

858
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,040
doesn't say that you do. 
And I think that's a 

859
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:17,880
clarification that could be 
made. 

860
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,720
But I think we both were like, 
it makes like, what game would 

861
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:23,000
you get to keep the thing that 
you built up after you died, 

862
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:24,200
right? 
It doesn't make any sense. 

863
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,240
We already talked about the 
mindless can't move. 

864
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,000
Oh, line of sight. 
Line of sight was a pain in the 

865
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,560
ass and honestly I think the 
little hexes really fucked with 

866
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,880
us for that too. 
But some of the movement and 

867
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,200
line of sight stuff really could
use more clarification. 

868
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,360
Really really could use more. 
See the IT the whole PDF for us 

869
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,800
for a second and. 
Now that you mention it, I'm 

870
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,760
thinking about how like if the 
line of sight or rather the 

871
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,720
attack patterns, I'll say to 
speak clearly if the attack 

872
00:44:53,720 --> 00:45:01,280
patterns were like clarified and
codified in the rules in a way 

873
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,160
where because they're they're 
kind of insignificant. 

874
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,280
Not insignificant, rather they 
don't come until page 17. 

875
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,600
So they're not primary. 
I think if you had these attack 

876
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,840
patterns earlier and like more 
thoroughly explain them, I think

877
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:14,920
then you get to call it heavy 
metal chess. 

878
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:20,440
I think calling it heavy metal 
checkers makes more sense. 

879
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,760
I don't know if that was exactly
what you were driving at, but 

880
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,920
for me it would take it to chess
if those attack patterns and 

881
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,480
move patterns were just more 
codified and better explained. 

882
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:35,080
Yeah, I mean, here's the thing 
that's that's confusing as I 

883
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:40,040
think also the page where they 
give you example attack patterns

884
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:46,440
is also the same page where they
give you an example, a drawn 

885
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:50,480
example of targeting in a 
straight line. 

886
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,840
And they say you can draw a 
straight line, but then there is

887
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,400
a straight line attack pattern 
that's like 5th edition 2 weapon

888
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,800
fighting and and like there's 
two options for it, you know 

889
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,960
what I mean? 
Like those things need to be 

890
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,960
separated in people's brains 
because, you know, we kept being

891
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,000
like, well, straight line has to
attack in straight line. 

892
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,000
Does my lost soul only fly in a 
straight line? 

893
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,080
Is it a straight line the way 
the curl flies or is a straight 

894
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,480
line across hexes like a fucking
Bishop, you know. 

895
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,520
And well, I think we what we 
ended up pulling out of the PDF 

896
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,720
and I think it is correct and I 
think it needs to be clarified 

897
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:26,320
and changed. 
Is that your attack patterns and

898
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,080
movement patterns? 
Because it nowhere does it still

899
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,280
nowhere does it really say 
movement patterns. 

900
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,240
If it says move in a straight 
line, we assumed it follows an 

901
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:37,560
attack pattern, so we followed a
straight line. 

902
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,920
But targeting doesn't have to be
straight line across hexes. 

903
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,320
It can be straight line just 
visually center to center. 

904
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,880
Yeah, yeah, I think. 
Clarification on that would go 

905
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:50,800
along. 
Moving in a straight line, 

906
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,400
targeting a straight line, and 
straight line attack patterns 

907
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,680
all need to be better explained 
and separated out a little bit 

908
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,320
better. 
That that I think is a, in my 

909
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,600
opinion, probably the most 
unclear thing we ran into. 

910
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,040
Yeah, I would agree with that. 
Yeah, yeah. 

911
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,080
And I don't want to hurry us 
along too much. 

912
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,480
I do have an appointment to get 
to in about 30 minutes though. 

913
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,560
So I think the other really big 
thing that we need to talk about

914
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,000
for rule set is a point that 
I'll let you take and that's 

915
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,520
spawn points. 
What's the fucking point? 

916
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,160
Yeah. 
What's the fucking point? 

917
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,680
First of all, they're in the 
book, they refer to them as both

918
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,800
respawn points and spawn points.
In setup, they call them respawn

919
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,400
points, but in the rest of the 
book they call them spawn 

920
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,040
points. 
That's something that needs to 

921
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,960
be cleaned up in the PDF. 
Just obviously keep the same 

922
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,160
language. 
But what we what we figured out 

923
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,920
is basically you get one or two 
spawn points depending on how 

924
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,800
many demons you have, right? 
And you stick that spawn point 

925
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,840
on anywhere on the edge of the 
map, right. 

926
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,840
But if you're spawning, like for
initial setup, you got three 

927
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:57,480
demons. 
You put one on the spawn point 

928
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:02,080
on the edge of the map and two 
other demons on the edge of the 

929
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:02,600
map. 
Whatever. 

930
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,720
Yeah. 
So what's the point of the spawn

931
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:06,840
point, right? 
And if you have something, if 

932
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:08,920
the spawn point is occupied 
later and you want to respawn 

933
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,120
another demon, you just put them
on the edge of the map. 

934
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,480
Yeah. 
It's pointless, it makes no 

935
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:16,920
sense. 
Just come in off the edge of the

936
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,400
map. 
I think again, taking this from 

937
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,080
checkers to chess, your 
suggestion, which I thought 

938
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,160
about so much after we we we got
rid of it is what I would do. 

939
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,280
Put that spawn point where the 
fuck you want and even here's 

940
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,840
this on your side of the board, 
put that spawn point anywhere 

941
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:37,960
you want. 
If you really want to level it 

942
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,600
up, especially on a bigger 
board, you could put it on 

943
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,760
anywhere right? 
And the difference then is 

944
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,200
especially for those fodder 
demons, my now I have the 

945
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,960
opportunity to have a guy out in
space. 

946
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,160
That changes what you can do. 
If my guy does die, I could 

947
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,440
actually make my guy die so that
I could spawn behind where 

948
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,400
you're at, right? 
And if you don't have an open 

949
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,400
spawn point, then you still put 
people on the board. 

950
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:07,280
But that spawn point is that 
option that goes out there. 

951
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,200
And if you have two spawn points
out there and you have 4 demons,

952
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,360
you can constantly, you know, 
always have to spawn from a 

953
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,120
spawn point, but if they're 
full, you deploy from the edge 

954
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,760
of the board. 
The complexity, I just thought 

955
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,040
the amount of the, the, the 
increased complexity of having 

956
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,080
your spawn points, because if 
you can put the spawn point in 

957
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,800
the edge of the board and if you
can't use the spawn point, you 

958
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,320
just come on the edge of the 
board anyway. 

959
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,800
It's literally fucking 
pointless. 

960
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,120
But it is an, in my opinion, a 
massive missed opportunity to 

961
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,960
not be able to just drop those 
spawn points anywhere. 

962
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,040
And here's the thing, even if 
you drop it into dangerous 

963
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,080
terrain, you would just use the 
rules for moving out of 

964
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,800
dangerous terrain because you 
get it could be the IT could be 

965
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,960
bad. 
But if you have a big bad demon 

966
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,120
and it's a really good spot 
right there and it happens to be

967
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:52,880
at the edge of the pit or 
whatever, you'd be like, fuck 

968
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,040
it, I'll eat 22 health every 
time I pop out, but I'll pop out

969
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,680
in a great spot. 
That opportunity to be like, 

970
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,560
I'll put it on dangerous 
terrain, I'll put it on 

971
00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:03,000
difficult terrain, I'll put it 
wherever I want because I'll 

972
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:04,560
take the detriment for the 
tactics. 

973
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,280
Dude. 
The level of complexity like 

974
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,680
exponentially increases. 
And beyond that, not only the 

975
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,320
placement, but then while you're
playing, if you have a good 

976
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,600
spawn point in the middle of the
map that has been causing me 

977
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,400
problems and then I start to 
camp out there, then you have to

978
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,600
make the decision of do you want
to respawn there where you're 

979
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,880
like, all of a sudden my 
strategy has been coke holded. 

980
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,120
And it's like, then you have to 
reconfigure. 

981
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:30,040
So like, I don't know if that's 
something that is something that

982
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,680
if I own this game in the future
and play and that rule is still 

983
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,040
in there. 
Like you can only put the spawn 

984
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:36,520
point into the map, like change 
it. 

985
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,920
I don't, I don't get it. 
It would be a massive missed 

986
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,960
opportunity to miss out on like 
endless complexity and endless 

987
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,240
tactics to have a pointless 
fucking spawn point. 

988
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:52,040
I literally wrote in the rules 
immediate home rule of placing 

989
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,080
the spawn token anywhere on your
side of the board like that. 

990
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,920
Again, if if, if, if that's not 
later in the rules, if it's 

991
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,040
going to stay that way, the 
spawn points are literally 

992
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,040
pointless and I would play it 
that way anyway. 

993
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,760
So that's rule set jumping into 
originality. 

994
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,760
I mean, it's doom. 
It is doomed to AT as far as 

995
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,960
like media stuff goes. 
This definitely goes into like 

996
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,080
straight simulation on purpose, 
and I think it's fantastic. 

997
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,360
It's we, we talked about how 
they really capture the vibe of 

998
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,800
the game, not only through the 
visuals, but I think playing the

999
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,840
game felt, felt like doom, you 
know? 

1000
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,760
I I would be curious one thing I
wrote down, and this is like 

1001
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,920
kind of a extra critique this 
does because the game is meant 

1002
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,160
to be like Doom fanfare, you 
know, but like, I'm curious what

1003
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,880
it would be like to see 
someone's review of the game who

1004
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,400
has never played Doom knows 
nothing about it, but no 

1005
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,920
skirmish games. 
I would love to hear their take 

1006
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,600
on it because I, I, the thing I 
thought about after we got done 

1007
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,200
playing was like, I wonder how 
much I liked that because I like

1008
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,640
Doom, you know, because like I'm
biased and there's no real way 

1009
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,360
to separate that. 
But they're not trying to do 

1010
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:00,600
that anyways. 
Like I don't think they're 

1011
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,920
trying to be like this is 
completely original from, you 

1012
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,440
know, the Doom series. 
So that's, that's just the thing

1013
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,440
I'm curious about. 
This is not really a critique of

1014
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,960
the game itself, but like, 
curious. 

1015
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,160
One thing you mentioned that I 
also, you know, again, I'm not a

1016
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,840
super huge board gamer, but I 
will say this is called a board 

1017
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,440
game, but it feels like a 
skirmish game and it uses 

1018
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,200
skirmish language the whole way 
through. 

1019
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,880
You know, everything about it 
felt like, you know, playing 

1020
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,520
Necropolis or something, the way
that you set up, the way things 

1021
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:33,120
are called, like you activate 
your guys, you deploy your guys,

1022
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:34,280
you know, all those kind of 
things. 

1023
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,920
That's all that's all skirmish 
and war game language, which 

1024
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:38,760
obviously that's going to fit in
Doom. 

1025
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,120
But calling it a board game. 
I mean, here's The thing is you 

1026
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,960
could just paint these minis and
build terrain. 

1027
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,440
Like you could easily just build
terrain for this and play it as 

1028
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,920
a straight up fucking skirmish 
game because it's just it's an 

1029
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,920
arena. 
Like you could just have walls 

1030
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,840
build out whatever kind of arena
you want, color code the 

1031
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:03,400
sections for, you know, 
difficult or dangerous and 

1032
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,040
literally build skirmish maps 
for this. 

1033
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,680
And I would like so it's 
interesting. 

1034
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:13,960
I like how it really, I mean out
of straddles the line like does 

1035
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,520
a split between skirmish and 
board game in here, because to 

1036
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,960
me, again, the language through 
this whole thing is skirmish 

1037
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,320
language and I and I dig it. 
I like it. 

1038
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,200
I like it a lot. 
So I'm curious how much that 

1039
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:32,320
came into play with when when 
writing it is deciding how much 

1040
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,120
of that skirmish language to 
use, because Modifius obviously 

1041
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:36,880
has been putting out a bunch of 
skirmish games lately. 

1042
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,720
They have a new one coming out, 
the Paranoia skirmish game. 

1043
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,720
I'm fucking getting that. 
I don't care. 

1044
00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:44,160
Paranoia is such a random ass 
TTRPG. 

1045
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,360
Yeah, and Modifius was also kind
enough to send us the Fallout 

1046
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,280
box, which is too deep for us to
tackle, you know, on stream with

1047
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,520
the amount of minis and stuff. 
I'm such a hey, we can try, we 

1048
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:59,200
can try, but but we'll but yeah,
it's just a lot more minis and 

1049
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:00,080
stuff. 
We can look at the book. 

1050
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,800
But anyway, I like that. 
I think that's some really good,

1051
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,040
interesting parts of 
originality. 

1052
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,080
And then vibes is the last thing
we're really gonna cover. 

1053
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,600
I mean, I think anyone can tell 
through the fucking roof for us.

1054
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,120
I mean, I didn't build this 
whole Doom overlay because I 

1055
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:15,680
didn't like it, you know what I 
mean? 

1056
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,520
Like right? 
Can you imagine? 

1057
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:21,560
I was like, yeah, it kind of 
sucks. 

1058
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:23,920
Like I only spent hours on this.
No, I I think it's incredible 

1059
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:28,000
again, like I was already going 
to back the game and now I'm 

1060
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:33,120
fighting with myself not to just
go all in because not only are 

1061
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,480
the visuals fantastic, I think 
the gameplay was super fun. 

1062
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,240
And I really want the rest of it
because I can feel the depth 

1063
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:41,920
there. 
I can feel the tactics there. 

1064
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,880
And one thing I really like, 
again, is games where you don't 

1065
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,600
need all of that right away, 
like being able to do a core 

1066
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,840
intro thing like we did, really 
simple, I think is really clever

1067
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,000
for them to go. 
You have one guy versus 3 guys 

1068
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:56,960
that don't really do a whole 
lot, but you'll learn the game 

1069
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,920
in round one and then when you 
get to round two, you really get

1070
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:02,920
to advance and move. 
I, I, I just think that's so 

1071
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,800
clever for games to have that 
ability to escalate pretty 

1072
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:09,800
quickly, not only in how you're 
playing, but in your knowledge 

1073
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,080
of the gameplay. 
And it made me super excited. 

1074
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,360
And again, I'm probably just 
going to go all in as soon as we

1075
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,120
get off the Kickstarter, as soon
as we get off here. 

1076
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,920
But I, I, I dig it and not just 
because I'm a Doom fan, but 

1077
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,200
because I think this is actually
a really fucking fun game. 

1078
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,640
And I do think there's a lot of 
opportunity here to lean board 

1079
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:30,160
game or lean skirmish with this.
And I'm building a fucking Doom 

1080
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:34,440
arena skirmish map and and 
playing this out like that. 

1081
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:38,000
So expect to see that at some 
point in the future. 

1082
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,440
And what's cool too about that 
is that you can just use the 

1083
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,760
board that comes with it and 
then just build the terrain over

1084
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,400
the hexes. 
But but what are your thoughts 

1085
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,120
on the vibes? 
Yeah, I mean, I'm just going to 

1086
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,280
follow suit with you. 
It's great. 

1087
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,160
It's top tier. 
I'm curious about what the Dark 

1088
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:55,400
Ages side is like. 
I never played Dark Ages. 

1089
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,360
I've heard that it's different, 
but it looks like it's grittier.

1090
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,880
It looks like it has more to do 
with melee combat. 

1091
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:05,000
But for the sake of. 
What we're for the sake of what 

1092
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,480
we're reviewing for this 
prototype, like, I don't think 

1093
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,920
it misses at all like the dice 
excellent, the cards great. 

1094
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,440
Honestly, like I know the PDF is
is fucked as far as file size 

1095
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,400
goes, but everything else about 
it is wonderful. 

1096
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,640
Like they keyed in the old 
illustrations and design and 

1097
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:28,200
like, I don't know, I just think
that like, well, I'll also say 

1098
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:29,880
this, I'll say this. 
I'm not a person that plays a 

1099
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,120
lot of board games. 
And this is like, if we do want 

1100
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:35,120
to call this a skirmish game, 
it's the first like analog 

1101
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,360
skirmish game I've ever played. 
Like I've played like, you know,

1102
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,280
old school stuff like advance 
forwards and Final Fantasy 

1103
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,080
Tactics, which I guess is like 
in that zone. 

1104
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,840
But like as far as my first 
experience playing this, I 

1105
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:45,920
thought it was great. 
I loved figuring things out with

1106
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:47,280
you. 
Even the stuff that we ran up 

1107
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,920
against that like didn't quite 
click for us and ended up being 

1108
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,080
kind of like critiques or 
criticisms of ours. 

1109
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:55,440
Like even outside of all those 
things or or rather even 

1110
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,080
accounting for all those things,
I had a lot of fun and I could 

1111
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,480
see, I could see the vision 
coming together pretty quickly 

1112
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,560
where I was like, oh, I can see 
on a smaller map where I'm 

1113
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,280
getting my ass handed to me and 
I have to reconfigure and then 

1114
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,800
like maybe I get a better weapon
eventually and then I think I'm 

1115
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:11,880
hot shit. 
But then Ryan has better demons 

1116
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,560
and was like, well, now it's 
getting scary. 

1117
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,400
So I think it nails it honestly.
And like you get some really 

1118
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,920
good mini figs with it too. 
Or like you said, what the What 

1119
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,440
are the flat ones called again? 
Standees. 

1120
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,400
Yeah, yeah. 
Great, great great option. 

1121
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:28,760
I love that you can swap it out 
and save a little bit of money 

1122
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,080
if that's your thing. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1123
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:35,280
I again, biggest critiques that 
we had were PDF file size would 

1124
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:40,360
take and fix a little bit more 
communicating some stuff that is

1125
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:44,000
a little a little farther down 
in PDF and then some 

1126
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,160
clarifications. 
And, and to wrap those up, just 

1127
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,040
in case anyone from Motivius 
actually listens to our our tiny

1128
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,360
little fucking podcast and, and 
here's what we have to say. 

1129
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,400
Do doom guy, does Doom guy lose 
tempo on death? 

1130
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,720
You really need to clarify the 
attack patterns versus straight 

1131
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:03,840
line targeting versus straight 
line movement. 

1132
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,360
All of those things need to be 
clarified just a little bit 

1133
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,600
more. 
And please have the spawn token 

1134
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:12,000
be able to put it wherever you 
want. 

1135
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,440
And I think those are those are 
the biggest things that we had. 

1136
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,240
And otherwise, again, yeah, even
just for the prototype box set, 

1137
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,800
I had so much fucking fun. 
I want to play again. 

1138
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,080
And, and yeah, I'm going to, I'm
probably just going to go all in

1139
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:24,320
on this. 
I don't even have room for all 

1140
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:27,840
these fucking minis. 
But you know, if I double up and

1141
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,560
have too much, I'll, I'll send 
some to you. 

1142
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,000
But but that's kind of, I think 
that's that's it. 

1143
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:35,400
Is there anything else you want 
to say about it? 

1144
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:38,600
No, I would, I would love to 
play it again. 

1145
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,560
And I'm also going to back it. 
Like I said, yeah, I love the 

1146
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,080
they, they packed a good amount 
of stuff from this box. 

1147
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,520
They didn't go over the top. 
They know what the game is. 

1148
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,680
It is hopefully a trend. 
You know, like, I, I think that 

1149
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,320
like there was a period of time 
maybe like 5-10 years ago where 

1150
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:58,880
it was like you had to have a 
big box full of a ton of things.

1151
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:02,320
And then from my vantage point 
and like, I'm not maybe quite as

1152
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,360
like steeped in it as you are, 
but it kind of seems like it's 

1153
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:06,200
swinging back the other way a 
little bit where people are 

1154
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:07,760
like, I don't think you need 
that much stuff. 

1155
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:12,520
And if this game is part of that
trend, then I mean, I think 

1156
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:13,680
they're ahead of the curve in a 
good way. 

1157
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:18,240
Yeah, yeah, I I like that they 
keep unlocking more and more 

1158
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,960
stuff and I like that you can 
just play the game kind of as 

1159
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,400
deep as you want with the core 
game. 

1160
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,520
But man, all like just the more 
and more and more and more stuff

1161
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:29,400
they keep adding, you know? 
I mean, we'll see if it all fits

1162
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:30,920
in the box. 
You know, obviously it's not 

1163
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,120
going to those Atlin miniatures 
are not going to fit in the box.

1164
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:37,240
They're fucking statues. 
But we'll we'll see how it goes.

1165
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,160
But that's going to be us. 
I just want to say once again, 

1166
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:40,640
thank you Modifias for sending 
the box. 

1167
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,080
Obviously we're two huge Doom 
fans and and big board game 

1168
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,520
scrimmage fans as well. 
So this kind of hits all of it, 

1169
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,920
checks all of our boxes. 
And thanks for calling on and 

1170
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,280
doing this. 
We need to do more, more board 

1171
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:52,960
game stuff. 
You got to be my board game guy.

1172
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,200
We got to go over skate at our 
castle and and some other stuff 

1173
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:59,040
but this is really fun. 
Let's do it. 

1174
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:02,800
Thanks for having me, Ryan. 
Yeah, so I'll put the link to 

1175
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,040
the Kickstarter down in the 
bottom again. 

1176
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:06,280
It doesn't meet our fucking 
help. 

1177
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,160
It's it's it's over 200 grand 
already. 

1178
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,760
But for any of our listeners out
there, again, we're not 

1179
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,720
sponsored. 
Munivia sent us a review copy. 

1180
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:15,720
If I didn't like it, I just 
wouldn't talk about it. 

1181
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:20,880
But we like it. 
So if you, if you do, I guess I 

1182
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:22,920
can back it. 
But we'll see you all later. 

1183
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:24,520
Have a good one. 
Bye. 

1184
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:25,520
Bye.