1 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,320 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll podcast. 2 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,280 My Name Is Ryan. And I'm your favorite wandering 3 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,960 with a funny accent. And I'm what? 4 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:25,480 Again. Again. 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,160 What is here again? Hello. 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,600 The strange growth on the show. There you go. 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:37,320 You can't seem to Lance. No, I do think, well, I think 8 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,240 you're our most guested guest and I do think the combined 9 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,120 episodes, I don't think we've talked about anything more. 10 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,480 We have, we have a review. I think this is the third 11 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:50,720 interview we had a playthrough. So we're on what, like 5 12 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,680 Platypus episodes at this point? Yeah, I did a playthrough and 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,560 then I think meet Castle Christian did a playthrough, so. 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:57,800 Oh my gosh. Yeah. 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:58,560 And. And that. 16 00:00:58,560 --> 00:00:59,320 Yeah. That one too. 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:00,360 Yeah. So yeah. 18 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,640 Wow. We did a lot of. 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,360 So yeah, it really. Wasn't that long ago? 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,880 But it feels like forever ago. Yeah, we're huge. 21 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,120 Fans, obviously. So thanks for coming back on. 22 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:12,640 We're obviously stoked to have you back on. 23 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,320 We've been talking for the past like 20 minutes, although no one 24 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:19,040 here watching knows that. So secret conversations. 25 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,960 I'm a big fan of the show and it's always good to be on and 26 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:23,920 and and watch and listen to your stuff. 27 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,720 We, we will always appreciate that, even though we'll never 28 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,040 believe anyone ever listens to us. 29 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,240 So you're here, and that means something's going on. 30 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,040 So for those that might have their heads in this hand, What? 31 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:37,960 What? What's going on with Clyde 32 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:41,680 Empress right now? So I'm best known for Cloud 33 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,720 Empress. It's an ecological science 34 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,120 fantasy role-playing game that uses the Mothership D100 panic 35 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,880 system, although it's entirely entirely stand alone. 36 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,360 So you can use it compatible with mothership content or it 37 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,720 has a free rule buck on drive through RPG you can use. 38 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,920 But backing in for the second Cloud Empress Kickstarter, it 39 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,360 launched last Tuesday. So we're about a week into the 40 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,000 campaign and it's going really well. 41 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,039 And the, I guess idea of the campaign is to continue to 42 00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:10,639 expand the setting with two new setting books that we can talk 43 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,440 more about as well as doing a reprint of the first materials 44 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,720 because they've been sort of selling out, selling really well 45 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,040 and also listening to sort of fan requests from the first 46 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,120 campaign. So a lot of the reprints include 47 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,080 a well, they all include a new storage solution, a collector's 48 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,880 box in two different versions, as well as hardcover reprints 49 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,040 that sort of combine the previous campaign and some new 50 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,800 ways to make it a little bit more accessible for folks just 51 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,000 hopping in or wanting a concise collection on their shelf. 52 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:48,160 Yeah, you got you. We'd love a good box here on the 53 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,000 show. Very. 54 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,080 Very excited. And we're not getting one, we're 55 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,120 getting 2 because obviously I'm getting both even though I have 56 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,240 them, but I'm very excited to have them in hardback. 57 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:02,160 The the slideshow above us for those that are watching, if you 58 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,160 look through there, you'll see the both heart, both boxes, both 59 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,760 sets and gosh, they're stunning. That dark green box for the the 60 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,720 life and death box is absolutely beautiful, but you can obviously 61 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,800 see that on the Kickstarter page as well. 62 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,200 Go check it out. I just dropped the link into the 63 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:22,400 chat, but storage solutions always great, always have a good 64 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,560 box. Why was it impetus to want to 65 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,320 reprint the the original starter set in hardback, though? 66 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,760 Sure. So at some point I wanted to do 67 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:39,080 the box set it. It came up consistently that as 68 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,040 people were getting their copies, I would say most folks 69 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,480 don't have dedicated Zine storage. 70 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,520 Like like probably we do. So I have a whole like target 71 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,320 wooden box system for zines. I love zines. 72 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,920 They're probably my favorite TTRPG format. 73 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,800 Generally I love how you can throw them in a backpack and you 74 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:01,760 don't feel bad if they get scratched up or dented or 75 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,360 whatever. At least for me, OK, maybe you 76 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,320 you. I just love throwing them 77 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,480 around. I mean, my copy of the 78 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,560 Mothership book, A Pound of flesh, like is is falling apart 79 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,200 just 'cause I carried it around for so long. 80 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,279 But I wanted to do the box set so people could have a storage 81 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:21,600 solution and keep it all together. 82 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,640 The first Kickstarter campaign had I believe 8 scenes, a bunch 83 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,000 of postcards, a bunch of there's a map and a bunch of stuff. 84 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:33,400 So it was a really big amount of stuff that that is sort of 85 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,960 unrelated to keep a hold of. And it did come with like a bag, 86 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,120 but it's just like this eco friendly Ziploc bag. 87 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,840 So it didn't look really great. So folks really wanted a box. 88 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,800 One of the things I'm really committed to doing in the 89 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:50,160 campaigns is not going too far off of what I plan for. 90 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,120 I, as we've talked about and I think the last episode, the 91 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,920 delivery of the project to me is as important as the the the game 92 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,560 itself. It's a really big important part 93 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,960 to how people sort of receive the material and how they think 94 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,960 about Cloud Empress. So that was the number one 95 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,600 requested item for the first campaign was we didn't want a 96 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,800 box, we won a box For a while I explored this idea of doing like 97 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,400 a tuck box, almost like a software box that would fold 98 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,520 flat. So that was the first solution 99 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,120 that I announced and got quotes on that and it seemed like it 100 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,640 was reasonable. But one of the other things I'm 101 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,560 doing with the new campaign is moving to a external fulfillment 102 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,080 partner called Quartermaster Logistics which is one of these 103 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:33,640 like larger board game role-playing game fulfillment 104 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,040 partners for a number of reasons save my back and and you know 105 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,920 just create sort of a long term plan for for releasing these 106 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,520 games that is going to. I don't have I have stairs like 107 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,680 rickety stairs that I have to take up and down all these ENS 108 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,880 so and and there's snow in Minnesota. 109 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:55,400 So anyway all that's to say the tuck box is really really big 110 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,160 when they're flat. So it would have been quite a 111 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,200 large box that was really thin that that would have been pretty 112 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,520 expensive to ship despite this like low weight of of the whole 113 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,720 thing. So decided to do international 114 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,040 manufacturing and and as part of that as I was getting quotes for 115 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,440 international manufacturing I had at least one of my like top 116 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:22,120 one or two vendors telling me that they couldn't do scenes or 117 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,200 saddle stitch or whatever you want to call it staple bound 118 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,400 books at 60 pages. There were only a few vendors 119 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,120 that could do 60 page scenes that I that I was going to work 120 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,160 with on the first campaign. So it was one of these things 121 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,960 where I felt like I'd be pretty limited in terms of 122 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,720 manufacturing options if the campaign, you know, successfully 123 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,160 funded or when it funded. And so that became sort of the 124 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,560 impetus of like, OK, well, I know I really want to do this 125 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,160 box. How do we move into that in a 126 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,600 way that gives me options around the manufacturing side and 127 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,680 making sure that we're making sort of a viable product. 128 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,880 I did not want to go like Perfect Bound, like a soft cover 129 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,720 book. I don't really like that format 130 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,600 very much for role-playing games. 131 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,600 I mean it's OK, but they're pretty hard to fold open and 132 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,400 hold open those kinds of things. So the the idea to to do 133 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,280 hardcover kind of came about pretty late in the sort of 134 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:25,360 imagining of the project. And I I had always planned a 135 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,960 hardcover I would say, but my original plan was to do sort of 136 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,720 like a revised or second edition, maybe five to seven 137 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,760 years out and then go in with the hardcover at that point. 138 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,440 But the more I thought about it, the more it seemed to make sense 139 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,280 for this release. But also wanted to acknowledge 140 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,200 that the first books had just come out. 141 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:47,680 People are still buying the first books. 142 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:49,920 And so there are a couple things that I wanted to do to support 143 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,160 folks and make them feel like they weren't obligated to get 144 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,800 the hardcovers. And so the the two pieces around 145 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,680 that were creating the boxes so that they could fit all the 146 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,320 previous content. So there's one pledge called the 147 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,120 life and Death box, which is that green skull box that you 148 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,680 all might see that comes with two hardcover books, but you 149 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,360 could fit all of your previous stuff in that box with the two 150 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,200 new hardcovers. And so that's, hey, I don't want 151 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:14,960 to repurchase any content I've already bought. 152 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,160 There's a pledge level just for that. 153 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,880 And the school box is sort of the like crowdfunding promo box. 154 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,280 That's the sort of one that's not going to be released in the 155 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,480 future, at least through retail or any other you know, venues 156 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,159 outside of crowdfunding. And then the other thing we did 157 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,200 or I did was offering the the sort of best discount I could on 158 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:37,440 it. You know if any if anybody's 159 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,400 repurchasing content, either the starter box which contains a lot 160 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,880 of the materials from the first campaign or you're doing one of 161 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,680 the like sort of all in pledges, you're getting a A5 or $8 162 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:52,040 discount that's applied sort of at some of the like shipping 163 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,240 stages of things. So that was that My, you know, I 164 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,920 really, I don't like when when you feel like something's become 165 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,680 invalidated because something new come out, came out or I 166 00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:02,760 don't want people to feel like this is sort of a money grab or 167 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,440 anything like that. It's sort of logistical 168 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,640 limitations in manufacturing and and feels like sort of the best 169 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,840 business decision in terms of like manufacturing options. 170 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,200 I did not realize like small detail of all of that, but I had 171 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,680 not realized that if I get the life and death block, when I get 172 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:22,960 to life and death block, all of my other Cloud Empress stuff 173 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,320 fits into that I am. Yeah that's been hard to explain 174 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,600 and and I think if I had a little more money or time I 175 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,960 could have made some nice like 3D mock up of everything like 176 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,360 coming together. But I do all the the graphic 177 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:35,640 design in the mock ups and stuff. 178 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,440 So I'm I'm still building the the 3D skill. 179 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:45,680 But yeah, the idea is that the both boxes are about 5 to 6 180 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:47,160 centimeters. I'm not sure exactly where 181 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:48,760 they're going to land, so they're going to be about half 182 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,000 full when you get them with the content in the game unless you 183 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,640 do the the all box bundle. I think those will have like. 184 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,960 The idea is either it's four hard covers that fit in there or 185 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,320 two hard covers and then your previous scenes should be about 186 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,440 the same size. That's awesome. 187 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:06,880 I'm. I'm super stoked for that. 188 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,120 I couldn't be more stoked for that. 189 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,320 I'm incredibly excited. Obviously I'm I'm re getting 190 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,200 everything because that's because I'm terrible with money. 191 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:19,080 Because, Ryan. But I think one of the things 192 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,560 that I think even I think even oh, because that's my name there 193 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:24,400 on the Kickstarter page. I think even one of the things I 194 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:29,920 said there specifically was like as someone who is I back a ton 195 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,480 of stuff and as a backer as someone who looks at games from 196 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,640 like multiple angles and stuff. The thought that you put into 197 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:40,480 what you make why you make it and who you're making it for is 198 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,000 like one of my favorite things about you and about the project. 199 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:49,440 So to specifically want to put it out there so that people 200 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,080 don't have to buy both and are still able to use it for its 201 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,840 purpose and making sure that that happens, it gets done and 202 00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:01,960 it looks gorgeous is so you I guess like it's it's a very it's 203 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,840 consistent and consistently great to to be in the next 204 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,680 project and all of the things that we loved most about the 205 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:11,640 first one especially behind the scenes is just consistently 206 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,720 still coming through. So it's really wonderful to see. 207 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:16,760 Yeah, it's kind of an interesting place and something 208 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,880 I hadn't necessarily thought about, but I had this real 209 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,760 commitment to making things better and continually improving 210 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,400 and doing things pretty iterative iteratively. 211 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,480 So maybe now is a good time Ryan, to show I have like a 212 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:36,880 weekly scroll announcement. Not really but so one of the 213 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,920 things that will be happening too, I'm trying to keep changes 214 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,440 minimal to the original material but there's some artwork updates 215 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,720 that I wanted to share and so I don't know Hunter if you could 216 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:54,160 see that. So I do listen to your show and 217 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,840 one of the the things, the the feedback that I got that I I 218 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,760 agreed with was there's a lot in there but was around the the 219 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,680 resting piece of artwork that that seemed to not fit. 220 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:09,200 And so this is sort of the updated rest artwork that folks 221 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,360 will see in the the reprint and anyone who got the digital files 222 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:13,880 that will get this automatically updated. 223 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,280 But the idea was to kind of go back with that extra layer 224 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,160 Polish. The other piece, we could talk 225 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,160 more about it if it's helpful, but trying to come up with a 226 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,960 little bit more of a cohesive style with the maps in 227 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,040 particular. So there's an example X map I I 228 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,040 still like the maps from the first game. 229 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:31,760 I still think they work really well. 230 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,680 There were some like printing challenges in terms of the the 231 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:38,280 export files and how much I could sort of sharpen images and 232 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,040 text and things that probably be no one's very interested in, I 233 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,920 don't know. But the other piece was I got 234 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,160 some feedback around the usability of the maps and the 235 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,520 overall sort of vibe that that didn't work for some people. 236 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,600 So that was the other idea of trying to bring them into a more 237 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,960 sort of cloud and precision. And so that's part of that. 238 00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:00,640 The books have been out since November, December for probably 239 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,360 most backers retailers in January, February. 240 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,120 But I've had probably six months to kind of think about how 241 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,440 everything went and really sort of assess, you know, is there 242 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,720 anything I'd like to change. And there's a couple things that 243 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,320 I'm, I'm making some modifications of. 244 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,440 And one of those, yeah, I just thought it So this is the sort 245 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,800 of two travelers, one of them a body hopper I discussed in 246 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,640 Corpse sitting and and you know, waiting their feet in the fish 247 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:26,400 with the fish and kind of having a relaxing moment in nature. 248 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,520 This is a great piece. I love this piece. 249 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,480 Yeah, it's it's gorgeous. I want to actually take the 250 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,200 individual art piece and blow it up for people watching. 251 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:38,320 Which one's this one? There we go. 252 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,360 Unlock you. This is fantastic. 253 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,480 And I love the having a body hopper because I mean, you know, 254 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,240 surprising no one in like in creepy shit. 255 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,680 I really love the body hopper and everything that it is, so 256 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:57,280 having a a nice big piece of that is really fantastic and I 257 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,200 love that like even though this person just like a like a creepy 258 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,840 corpse person, they're just like chilling hanging out with this, 259 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,280 the rest of this other guy. Yeah, so very relaxing piece, 260 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,520 definitely very much fits the, the, the rest page. 261 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:17,040 Yeah, it don't. So, so outside of the the maps 262 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,240 and the the change to the art and stuff, are there any other 263 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,440 big changes to the to the core books or are they mostly like 264 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,120 tweaks and whatnot? I I would it's I think the rule 265 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,080 book I'm I'm going with kind of a 1.1. 266 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:34,920 So the other thing is I'm Co locating the lore, so moving a 267 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,720 lot of the lore to the middle of the book. 268 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,680 The original idea was spreading it out so that it would make for 269 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,720 a more interesting reading experience. 270 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,440 But I think for instance that the you know which maybe someone 271 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:52,480 has mentioned in this room or virtual room having like 1-2 272 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,320 page spread on the imago and then another spread on the imago 273 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,480 like 20 pages apart doesn't really make sense. 274 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,400 The idea with that was to like Co locate some of the rules so 275 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,640 the the lores kind of being combined together and then the 276 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:11,960 other I would say big change and as a business a lot has changed 277 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,040 since the first campaign went live. 278 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,240 The context that I think is helpful for folks, folks sort of 279 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,640 see me now and where I'm at and and have questions and and 280 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,440 feedback on on some of the decision I'm making. 281 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,680 Not a ton, But you know, in terms of like, why didn't I just 282 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,600 do hardcover in the previous campaign? 283 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,840 Everyone's a critic, you know. Well, and it's a good, it's a 284 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:39,440 good, you know, I I think some people do have that as a stretch 285 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,280 goal, right, going from scene to hardcover. 286 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,880 My previous campaign was like $1500 and then the second 287 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,720 campaign did 98,000. And so I still wanted, like I 288 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,720 said to kind of keep with that original vision of the product 289 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:53,920 and I had all these mock ups and stuff. 290 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,520 So I just wasn't prepared for that level of funding and maybe 291 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,720 if I expected it again I I would do things differently. 292 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,960 But the other piece like as we talked about and and maybe a 293 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:13,160 previous podcast was that a lot of the first project was sort of 294 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,320 about page constraints in particular. 295 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,840 And so the last Voyage of the Bean Barge introductory 296 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,960 adventure was always intended to go with the rule book and that 297 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,320 was something that it just would not fit. 60 pages was sort of 298 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,200 the limit with our printer including the covers. 299 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,120 And so I had to cut it out as a separate scene. 300 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,800 What I ended up having is a bunch of like skews, what 301 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,560 they're called. And so they're individual 302 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,880 products that can be bundled or and sold together or sold 303 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,000 separately, those kinds of things. 304 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,640 But it when you're doing the fulfillment yourself, it doesn't 305 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,840 really matter. Putting, I mean it's time 306 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,040 intensive, but I was just putting, you know, putting 11:50 307 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,720 items together, whatever. But then when you work with a 308 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,240 fulfillment partner at at times putting that stuff together, 309 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,800 like each time they touch a product is like $0.40. 310 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,360 And so all of a sudden, like packing 6 postcards, you need 311 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,840 barcodes on those postcards or otherwise you have to pay 312 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,920 another $0.40. And then so you know it, it gets 313 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,560 really expensive. And so part of the idea with the 314 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:15,119 sort of new second Kickstarter is to do stuff that feels really 315 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,040 high quality, that's really exciting, that feels like a 316 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,280 dopamine rush when you open it up, it feels like sort of a 317 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,040 treasure chest, but also reducing the number of skews. 318 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:27,400 And so to that we'll be adding The Last Voyage of the Bean 319 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,320 Barge to the rule book in that hardcover sort of at the back 320 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,720 like like frontier scum is is the one that with the I think at 321 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,080 the organ train is one of my favorites. 322 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:42,000 So it has the intro inventor in there, and then the adventures 323 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,800 from the like year one adventure bundle or the five you know or 324 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,960 you know adventure pieces. Those are going to get split up 325 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,440 into different setting books based on where they're located 326 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,520 and and some other factors. I maintained that like that was 327 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,840 a good decision for the first project. 328 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,600 Like, I appreciate. First off, I also love having a 329 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,720 little lot of little scenes. I just put my backpack and I 330 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,960 take to my, like, game table. You know, like, I always 331 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,040 appreciate that. But I think the accessibility to 332 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:09,480 be like, I want to try Cloud Empress. 333 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,600 The rules are online. I can buy one of these adventure 334 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,480 scenes and I can have it. And then when I want more, I can 335 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,120 buy more. And then maybe I'll run the hex 336 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:21,520 crawl when I know that my party wants to play all of it or I can 337 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,800 afford to buy everything. Like I think it was a great 338 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,280 deal. I think this, where you are now 339 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,440 is a great evolution of that. I think you're heading in like a 340 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,920 great direction and it doesn't feel like it feels incredibly 341 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,480 like a genuine, like iterative process. 342 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,960 But I still love the original, like just bundle of scenes. 343 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:41,000 Yeah, and I like, I mean, there's a usability factor to 344 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:46,240 pulling an adventure out and just having it be a single 345 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:47,960 adventure, right? And not having to flip through a 346 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,560 big book and just sort of having it there. 347 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:59,960 So I still it's just interesting there's the art we receive is 348 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:03,800 always funneled through this layer of commerce and so. 349 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,480 We feel like that's really horrifying, but yeah. 350 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:11,960 I mean we and if it's not it, the production quality, yours 351 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,400 really reflects that, right. So it's still a commercial 352 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,480 decision unless that person has just like a bunch of talents, 353 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,560 but even then they've probably trained in some kind of 354 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,280 commercial setting or you know whatever, I mean very so unless 355 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,760 there's some folk artists that's you know painting on barns, but 356 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,680 even that becomes part of the commercial story. 357 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:35,800 So it's finding a place in that and accepting what you're making 358 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,760 as a product and what you're making relates to the business 359 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:44,600 decisions of your time period. It's it's sort of interesting to 360 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:50,560 be in it but then also trying to put that through the lens of 361 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:54,000 what's best for your audience and what's best for you and what 362 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,840 all these kinds of things. It's it's a lot to weigh in the 363 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,720 like goal of making a product line for example or just any 364 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:11,320 product, any kind of art. Yeah, I so about the book and 365 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,520 the scenes and stuff, I I definitely wore about whether I 366 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,160 like a big old hardback book or a bunch of little pieces. 367 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,720 Because like as as a collector, I love one giant, beautiful 368 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:27,280 hardback book. As a GMI, the all the little 369 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,160 scenes and stuff like that to me is such the like better decision 370 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,240 for usability. The fact that I could have like 371 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,760 the rule book flat in front of me and have the adventure flat 372 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,600 in front of me right here and not have to like try to parse 373 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,640 and flip and do all this stuff with this giant book. 374 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,480 So I I'm glad that I'm going to have both now. 375 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,400 That's wonderful for me. And the the the hardcovers are 376 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,360 all going to be around 70 pages so that's pretty small for a 377 00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:54,200 hardcover. So I I still like the having a 378 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,200 lot of stuff. I mean that feels to me it's 379 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:01,520 sort of central to the stuff I like and and I also one of my 380 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,520 joys is is reading a a most books. 381 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,240 Like I love reading a book in like 2 to 3 settings like that's 382 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,960 sort of my ideal. I don't know if that's from my 383 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,080 ADHD or what but I just love reading through books pretty 384 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,080 quickly and and I'd much rather have like 3 smaller books than 385 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,280 one giant book. I I don't know. 386 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,720 Maybe I have a lot of guilt or shape or I don't know what, but 387 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,360 I get like halfway through and I'm like, gosh, I have a lot 388 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:26,360 more to go. I think you're in a safe space 389 00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:29,360 with that one here friend I. Think. 390 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,480 So there's too many words, too many times in a row, and I'm 391 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,840 like, oh God. Yeah, no, it's really hard. 392 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,720 It's hard to and that's the thing that we run into a lot 393 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,320 here on the show. And me and Hunter always have 394 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,200 this constant debate and I think we switched sides a lot and then 395 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,960 realized that we switched and went back on yeah usability of 396 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,400 books layout of books like and reading it as an experience 397 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:59,800 versus reading it as a guide and like where the the where the 398 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:05,600 line is on that And my thought like I just want to rationale a 399 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,120 lot of times that I feel is missing. 400 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,440 And I also think that there's this I can't remember what it's 401 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,320 called but I think there might have been like a mini discourse 402 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:19,040 on it recently about like being so in your thing that you forget 403 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,000 that other people don't know all the stuff that you know and that 404 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,200 is something that we see a lot. So it's it. 405 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,680 It's just an interesting, like there's no answer. 406 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,720 It's just like how it feels right and stuff like that. 407 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,800 It's nice to know again though, that like that's a thought 408 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,000 process that you have at the books and like the reason that 409 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,200 it was one way the first time, the reason it's changing a 410 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,880 little bit this time. And like you said, having it be 411 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,440 an iterative process as opposed to being like, Nope, I did it 412 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,560 the right way. You know, you guys can just deal 413 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:47,640 with it. No, it's like I'm, I'm 414 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,320 listening. I'm hearing, you know, I'm 415 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,040 getting the feedback and I'm trying to do what's best for 416 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,600 everybody. So again, like it's, you know, 417 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,480 it's it's one of the things, it's one of the things we love 418 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,640 about you. So like I said, the rationale is 419 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,400 really important and it's nice to hear that every time you come 420 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,120 on. So moving on to like life and 421 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:10,760 death, tell us what is this new adventure for Cloud Empress? 422 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:17,200 Slash setting, Yeah. It's the sort of centerpiece to 423 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:18,760 the campaign, at least in my mind. 424 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,120 It is around these two new setting books. 425 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,120 Each one is going to be about the size of land of Cicadas give 426 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:31,360 or take so slightly larger because Land of Cicadas is going 427 00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:33,080 to grow slightly. So each one's going to be around 428 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,800 like 72 pages somewhere in there. 429 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:42,040 And what I tried to do with Land of Cicadas, the first setting 430 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,400 book was really include a little bit of everything. 431 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,160 So it is tries to be sort of the quintessential setting book 432 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,840 because it's it's going to be paired with the rule book in the 433 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,120 starter box. It sort of highlights the humor 434 00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:00,560 and the weirdness and also some of the horror elements that are 435 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,440 sort of on the edge of the game, The Rust Bucket in particular. 436 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,040 Folks have have read it. There's this sort of dilapidated 437 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,360 city that's full of some like really grotesque, horrifying 438 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,400 stuff sort of on the corners there. 439 00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:14,760 That's not sort of central to Cloud Empress's identity, but 440 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,040 it's it's sort of a big part of it as well. 441 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,480 So with life and death, it's in the extremes and they're paired 442 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,280 together. They sort of also highlight this 443 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,400 contrast that I try to do with the games and the and the world. 444 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,640 So Land of the Living, which I'm Co authoring with an author 445 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:40,760 named Matson, focuses on this vibrant overgrown overflowing 446 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:46,320 with fungal and spores garden area as well as this lake that's 447 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,080 torn by slipstream. So time and space and it's just 448 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:58,000 like really vibrant and and growing and chaotic and there's 449 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,320 a lot of people there. We tried to focus in on what 450 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,240 sort of more specifically indigenous cultures of the 451 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,040 Midwest in the far far future might be like in what kind of 452 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:15,840 communities they would form. And then the other book is sort 453 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:21,200 of the total opposite in that it's the landscape underneath 454 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,440 one of the cloud cities that's cratered and fallen and 455 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,760 decimated the entire landscape. And so it's this desert of ash 456 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,520 and that draws on the the first land of the living Book draws on 457 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,160 I think a lot more explicitly. Nausicaa in particular some of 458 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,200 the the ways and the Nausica manga manga too. 459 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,480 There's some there's like a tribe of folks that live in the 460 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,480 fungal forest in the the Poison forest that we don't see 461 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,000 necessarily in the the movie with Land of the Dead. 462 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:59,040 It's like blood borne really dark stuff some fallout kind of 463 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,160 stuff. So it's it's if it is a recent 464 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,360 apocalyptic event that has happened in the world the the 465 00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:07,560 setting itself. Cloud Empress takes place in 466 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,360 this far for future that looks really different and is sort of 467 00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:12,400 in the ruins of another civilization. 468 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,680 But I've never really meant it to feel necessarily like 469 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,200 apocalyptic. It's it's always meant to be 470 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,880 just people living in a time period in a new way whereas this 471 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,160 one landed the dead book is really meant to explore the 472 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,680 trauma like how trauma is personified in land and and 473 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,120 people and in memory. So it's going to be pretty dark. 474 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:37,840 One of the other neat things about both books that I think 475 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:43,080 I've shared, but it takes these both take place two to three 476 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,240 months after the events of Land of Cicadas. 477 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,120 And one of the things that I think is I don't know, I don't 478 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:52,560 see a ton in in TTRPG setting books but you you all might 479 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,120 point to many more. But it's the book takes place in 480 00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:59,040 a specific summer in it over a three month period and so it's 481 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,960 the summer of the century brood. So this is sort of the late 482 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,880 summer, early fall, and so it actually moves forward in time 483 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,360 slightly. And so you don't need to play 484 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:11,720 them in a particular order. And I think most Wardens or GMs 485 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,200 could easily navigate, you know, or ignore that time change with 486 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,400 their players. But for instance, a spike had 487 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,360 one of the weird like hybrid human fungal creatures that we 488 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:28,200 saw in Land of the Cicadas is back in a new way, in a new in a 489 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,360 new place in Land of the Living. Whereas Prince Bug, who he saw 490 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:35,960 in this horrible battlefield within Land of Cicadas, is now 491 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,440 in a tower in Land of the Dead in a new setting, in a new way. 492 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,480 And so folks get to learn more about those characters and and 493 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,720 what happened. Obviously, again, like there's 494 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,320 not a definitive story that was told in either of those books. 495 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:52,520 So you know, Wardens may have to get a little creative with with 496 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,560 how that all connects. But the other component to the 497 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,560 setting is this idea that time and space are slippery and that 498 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:02,640 memories change things and and there's some ambiguity in terms 499 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,280 of how reality works too. So I think it's just as easy 500 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,320 that these are different versions of them or versions 501 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,160 from another time or or you could just change their names 502 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:12,880 entirely, I don't know. So I think there's a lot of 503 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,000 opportunities there. But for folks that played and 504 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,720 read the first books, there will be some continuity between some 505 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,040 of the characters you see as well as probably most 506 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,760 importantly on the covers of both the books. 507 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:27,120 The Cloud Empress we see again in the Cloud Empress is is 508 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:29,240 making her way through the world. 509 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,280 And so the traveling party is still sort of following in her 510 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,840 footsteps and seeing what she's up to through these two books. 511 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,240 That's so cool. I can't tell you how much I'm 512 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,360 stoked for it being like, like you said, obviously not for 513 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,160 Sequential, but I would absolutely run this as like it's 514 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,200 the summer that you all meet and get together and then after the 515 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,160 summer you have this fall. That's amazing. 516 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,800 I love the fact that you bring back your characters like later 517 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,440 on. And I also agree like I think 518 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,840 the way you set this up is like, yeah, the slip makes things 519 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,080 weird. Like it could not technically be 520 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:09,360 nonlinear or some interpretation that gives a lot of freedom to 521 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,000 the the wardens to run in Hollywood. 522 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,640 I'm going to run it sequentially because I'm in a big nerd like 523 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,840 that. So along with these two, the 524 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,920 land of the living, land of the dead, what else is being added? 525 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,040 Is there anything else that's being added that you think is 526 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,520 substantially you'd like to talk about? 527 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,520 Well, the other piece too is for folks that aren't aware Cloud 528 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,880 Empress is a hex crawl, so it has a big hex map, and that's 529 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,000 how folks primarily explore the world, as well as these 530 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,400 adventure locations that you could run as one or two Shadow 531 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,080 Adventures and some introductory adventures. 532 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,640 The neat thing is that the books will come with a giant map. 533 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,960 I mean, it'll be, I don't know how big it'll be, probably 11 by 534 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,840 17. So it won't be much bigger in 535 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,720 terms of actual product that that folks got in the first 536 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,200 campaign, but it'll have all of these things connected in a 537 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,040 single landscape. And so land of cicadas will sort 538 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,360 of be down here. The land of the living will be 539 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,280 up top. And then the land of the dead 540 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,840 will be east of the land of cicadas W West of the land of 541 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,560 cicadas. So it'll be the sort of larger 542 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,280 landscape and effectively triple the size of the the setting at 543 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,560 least through hexes that we saw in the land of cicadas. 544 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,040 And those same hexes will be present on this map in a new 545 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,960 format. Cool. 546 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,720 I love that. I love the whole hex in this 547 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:26,880 world. Yeah. 548 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,320 See. It's your grand hex crawl. 549 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:37,040 So as part of the story, and you said the this, it's it's 550 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,680 advancing a little bit. Is your thought to every time 551 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,040 something comes out to slowly advance a story, or is that just 552 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:49,600 for this one? Yeah, I'm I guess there are a 553 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:54,000 lot more books planned. I think there it's meant to be a 554 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,440 three-part sort of trilogy, at least as I've imagined it at 555 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,520 this point. And so the first trilogy, the 556 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,040 first part of the trilogy is sort of ended with these two 557 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,680 books. With this four book box, the 558 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,520 next part of the trilogy is going to take place in the 559 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:15,080 clouds above where we're at. And so I think the idea is yes, 560 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,400 it'll take place with a more significant time jump forward. 561 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,280 I think you know I I I'm so excited about that stuff and I 562 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,440 try not to, you know get I want people to be excited about the 563 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,760 current stuff. But I think that the general 564 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,160 concept with that is the marriage and selection of a new 565 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,200 cloud Empress would be sort of the one of the big key events 566 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,000 that's happening in sort of the second part of the trilogy. 567 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,440 Now it makes sense because we all know that Cloud abandoned 568 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,560 their they're forced to do these. 569 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,160 In fact, we actually went on an adventure with Cloud on this 570 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,760 channel. Listen, the farmerlings stole 571 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,040 Cloud and that is clearly why we had to send the expedition down 572 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,520 there. So we could take probably. 573 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:02,880 Hours. Yeah. 574 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaking of the it's the the 29th expedition that's that's 575 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,800 still happening, right? Is death a lot of like the 576 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,840 fallout from that, like in the in the in this book or is or is 577 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,000 there going to be a point where that's ever a part of the Cloud 578 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,800 Emperor storyline you want to focus on? 579 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,480 Or is it mostly going to be kind of like the traumas of war, not 580 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:30,880 actually looking at it directly? So the the land of the cicadas 581 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,960 was sort of a bigger attempt. There is like sort of a 582 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,800 battlefield and a war setting in the the central part. 583 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,040 And so that was sort of the the most direct look. 584 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,080 Although we will see sort of cloud linked forces in these 585 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,720 other areas, sort of, but they're more stragglers and this 586 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,840 is meant to be sort of a difficult journey to get into 587 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,720 these areas. And so in the case of the Land 588 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,520 of the Dead, it's a giant desert, It's horrible. 589 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,280 There's not a lot to live. It's polluted with chalk. 590 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:04,600 There's actually, I'll talk a little bit about, I forget the 591 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,840 name of it, but maybe it doesn't have a name at this point. 592 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:13,680 But there is sort of a wall like sort of area, like there's a 593 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,160 cloudling settlement with a Lord Ling that's been tasked with 594 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,840 keeping everyone in this area inside of it except for 595 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,760 scraplings that can bring goods out. 596 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,560 So they're still not allowed to leave necessarily, but it's sort 597 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,640 of this giant crater and there's a Fort on it. 598 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,440 And so we see a Lord Ling that's sort of been long term tasked 599 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,680 with sort of keeping the secrets in the wreckage of this area. 600 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:40,200 Within this, these confines, we also see the survivors of a 601 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,040 cloudling security force that lived in it's called Bravo City 602 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,280 that collapsed and fell. And so they're the only real 603 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,440 remaining survivors because they dipped out and hid in the center 604 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,040 of the city in this sort of armored area and survived the 605 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,840 crash, much to the dismay of the residents there. 606 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:05,480 And so the residents hunt them as ghosts while they raid, as as 607 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,120 bandits, any kind of travelers or relic hunters or folks that 608 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,560 are in the area. And so we see more of cloudland 609 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,639 culture, but it's a place that most people do not want to go 610 00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:18,000 to, except for this, these strange dreams and this 611 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,920 mysterious voice that calls to master magicians. 612 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,480 And so magicians across the lowland waste and even in the 613 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,560 clouds are being called to this underground area of the city for 614 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,480 unknown reasons. And so that's sort of a 615 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,000 catalyst. And again, some Lord Lings and 616 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,520 folks of import from Cloudling Society will be headed that way. 617 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,040 But the Cloudling 29th Expedition has no value in this 618 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,600 area. With the Land of living. 619 00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:50,239 It is pretty far past the Thickwood, which is incredibly 620 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,760 dangerous and so most cloudlings just aren't skillful enough to 621 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,880 make it that far north because of how dangerous it is. 622 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:02,920 So we still get to see touches of Cloud Links society, but it 623 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,760 is difficult for Cloud Links to make it this far, at least the 624 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:12,200 29th expedition, which has this sort of pomp and egotism that 625 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,840 that sort of prevents them from being particularly effective. 626 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:21,640 I think that, yeah, I think that's I would say too the 29th 627 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,280 expedition is not successful as you kind of see in in light of 628 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,320 Cicadas. So by the fall, they're starting 629 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,920 to really reconsider what's going on and and starting to 630 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,880 probably retreat into the clouds that we'll see again in kind of 631 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,520 future setting books. It's so funny because at no 632 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,040 point in time did I ever assume, knowing well I know about the 633 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:42,600 setting, that it wouldn't be successful. 634 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:46,800 Well, it's too. I mean you have to have some. 635 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,000 It's sort of this, like George Bush mission accomplished thing. 636 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,920 It's like, well, what what would be success look like, right? 637 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,640 I mean, conquering and keeping a land that doesn't want you, that 638 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,760 you don't have authority over. That's not all meant to be an 639 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,560 Iraq analogy. I'd have to think about that 640 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,600 through that lens. But at least for the cloud 641 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,200 links, as I think about them, part of it is their their goals 642 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:17,240 are are elusive and foolish, and their dreams are a big part of 643 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:20,840 the setting. And so it's this sort of magical 644 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:27,360 dream thinking to conquer this land and these aspirations from 645 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,000 societies long past that don't really matter, aren't effective 646 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,880 in the society that they live in. 647 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,800 Yeah, I I never. I don't know how I read it is I 648 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:43,840 never really thought that they like plan to win it like I like. 649 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,880 I always. It's a 2019 exit. 650 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,960 Strategy. It's not that there's no exit 651 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,640 strategy. I always read it is more of like 652 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,600 an incursion to, like, spend money, maybe get rid of some 653 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:59,280 political rivals, go for like a foray and then just like go 654 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,520 back. And then eventually, like when 655 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,240 enough drama has risen, we can go again. 656 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,280 It's a 29th one. Like they're not. 657 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,520 Yeah. Like that's how I always felt. 658 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,040 It was more like we're going to go down there, we're going to 659 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,560 fuck around for a little bit, then we're going to come home. 660 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,040 I never thought it is like go down there and like we and then 661 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,800 we are going to rule everything, you know, again or whatever. 662 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,800 That's how I always kind of viewed it more than anything. 663 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,240 I I don't know, I always saw it as more of like a rich people 664 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:26,080 like on the side, you know, watching the civil War kind of 665 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,000 thing versus like you know, actually thinking that they were 666 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,360 going to go down there and conquer everything. 667 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,920 But you know, I mean, that was just my impression of of. 668 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:39,880 Well, and I think it's it's like any war, it's players all have 669 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:45,320 their own agendas, and so we see many individual lordlings and 670 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,400 cloudlings going down there just to obtain a Crest and the title 671 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:51,240 so that they can personally advance. 672 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:58,760 We see Papon the Crestless who has these either greater mission 673 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,320 or greater message from the Emperor themselves or himself to 674 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:07,040 figure out a way to go to space. And so this is some sort of plan 675 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:12,920 to bring humanity back to space. And then we have one particular 676 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:21,560 Lord Lang, I think it's Renault the Sleepy who is a body hopper 677 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,480 and just sort of seems to forget the past. 678 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:29,000 And so I think for him it's more of a glorious charge and and the 679 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,560 fulfillment of previous dreams that he can't he he can't 680 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,360 remember anymore or or specifically doesn't write down 681 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,560 his failures in this book of his history. 682 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,840 So he's never sort of capturing any of his failures in his 683 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,760 memory because when body hoppers hop from 1 corpse to another 684 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:51,440 they lose quite a bit of their memory and and in in much to his 685 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:56,440 I think nephews chagrin I'm I'm forgetting some of the details 686 00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,080 but much to his nephews chagrin who's his sort of boy ward he's 687 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,600 never tasked with writing down any of his failures or bad ideas 688 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,200 and so I'm leading this just horrible charge into. 689 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,040 Are you sure this isn't like an American satire? 690 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,560 Because this sounds a lot like American written history. 691 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,120 So. Listen, like, like, like, they 692 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,000 said. Mission accomplished. 693 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,360 So. We we did it. 694 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,000 We won. Let's go home now to do it again 695 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,000 later. So another part of this project 696 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,120 is the stretch goals We're we're coming up on another one we'll 697 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,880 talk about in a second. But two of the things that I 698 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,960 thought were really interesting are the emphasis Almanac, the 699 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,960 cloud. It was Almanac and the solo 700 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,600 rules the the arrivals and routines. 701 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,960 So what exactly is the emphasis? Almanac and. 702 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,600 And then tell me about the the solo, The solo pamphlet? 703 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:57,400 So the. 2024 Cloud Empress Almanac is probably something 704 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,920 I'm most proud of. I've been doing an expansion a 705 00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:02,800 month for the last like 9 to 10 months. 706 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,800 I want to say I'm not exactly sure how long, and those are 707 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,800 slowly gotten nicer and nicer, at least in my opinion, in that 708 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,600 they most of them have unique artwork. 709 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,040 All of them have artwork. At least at this point and they 710 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,280 come out as a spread that folks can get as APDF download from my 711 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,760 Google Drive. But the idea with this was to 712 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,120 start to create content on a monthly basis for a couple of 713 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,520 reasons. One I think it it reminds people 714 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,320 the game exists, it gives them new things. 715 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,840 My audience also like or you. I mean if you subscribe you get 716 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,200 to vote on what I write in many cases and so or at least the 717 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,720 order in which I write it at other times. 718 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,080 So it's this other way to be in conversation with community and 719 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,800 and I've already seen some folks suggesting stuff and I'm like oh 720 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,320 like somebody asked about festivals. 721 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,200 So I think that's like going to be a great newsletter expansion 722 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,440 just a spread of festivals with some cool festival art. 723 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:03,160 So the idea is to keep Cloud Empress vibrant throughout the 724 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,000 time that it exists, not only in these Kickstarter projects, but 725 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,600 also sort of design stuff. That's stretch goals that are 726 00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:17,280 exciting to get, but not a ton of work to make, at least in the 727 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,920 development. So we have them mostly done now 728 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:26,440 I they still need to be professionally edited and and 729 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,000 packaged. But I think that stretch goals 730 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:35,120 are extremely dangerous. Success is more dangerous to 731 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,880 Kickstarter and crowdfunding creators, I think than failure 732 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,640 is and so how do I make stretch goals that are achievable and 733 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:47,840 doable? The other piece that I I think a 734 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,680 lot about is is how do I build a business that supports me in a 735 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,240 way that keeps me healthy and sane and all these kinds of 736 00:41:56,240 --> 00:41:57,960 things. But also how do I build 737 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,920 something that is accessible to folks of a variety level of 738 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,240 incomes. And so I think the other piece 739 00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:08,240 with this is, is doing stretch goals that you feel really nice 740 00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:11,160 and beautiful in your hands that are print but having really 741 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,480 accessible digital content. And so something like this 742 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,880 funeral for the Anti St. which is a new adventure is free. 743 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,440 I I try to give a lot of stuff out for free online and that's 744 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,400 part of this. You know, this could all be a 745 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,040 Patreon and it could be like, oh, you got to pay a certain and 746 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,520 I'm not knocking Patreon or people that do that, but that's 747 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:37,120 my business model is giving away a lot for free and hopes that it 748 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,840 will be appreciated. And then that appreciation will 749 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,800 turn into financial support around a few key product 750 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,400 releases, you know, a year, like one or two. 751 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:55,040 So that's the Almanac and folks can look at the newsletter for 752 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:56,680 most of the stuff that's going to be in there. 753 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,160 There's going to be like a little intro and some maybe some 754 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:05,240 extra little goodies. The other one though is I've 755 00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:09,720 always sort of intended to be very solo friendly, and so that 756 00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:12,520 even comes down to like the number of hexes I put and how I 757 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,120 arrange the map so that you can roll to find a random hex, for 758 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,680 example. It's sort of designed that way. 759 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,560 I'm really happy with the solo rolls. 760 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,960 They're really weird and I don't think I've they simulate instead 761 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,960 of simulating a lot of solo games, simulate a single person 762 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,520 and you're sort of the heroic adventure that's traveling the 763 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,800 world. With the Cloud and Priscilla 764 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,400 rules, you're simulating an entire traveling party. 765 00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:38,760 And my biggest inspiration was The Sims. 766 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,960 And so you're sort of generating these personas for each of your 767 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:47,000 traveling party members, including like how they react to 768 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,400 disagreement. And that can set off violent 769 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,640 encounters sort of on their own if they have the wrong 770 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,000 responses, but also when and why they would leave the traveling 771 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,640 party. And so you have the sort of 772 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,360 rolling cast of characters that moves through the world to 773 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,400 achieve different goals and so rivals and routines. 774 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:10,040 I wanted to continue to support the solo play with some like 775 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,520 sort of new features again, that weren't going to be. 776 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,280 I'd like to do a larger like compilation of solo with 777 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,720 expanded content and artwork and those kinds of things at some 778 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:23,320 point, but sort of building it out piece by piece based on what 779 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:28,200 people are using and needing. But it it's two functions or 780 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,160 one. There's not really a way to 781 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,080 automate when the party rests and when they explore and when 782 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,040 they move through the world. Right now I think that's mostly 783 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:44,840 like a player decision and I I don't know how much solo playing 784 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,200 you do. When I play solo games, I 785 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,080 immediately go for like tropes, like I immediately start telling 786 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,280 this heroic story or this really trope played in story. 787 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:59,480 And so I really like solo play that's systematized and random 788 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:03,080 because it makes stories that are unexpected and I find that 789 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,680 really enjoyable versus when I start to write my own solo 790 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,600 stories or whatever, experience them. 791 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,320 Often times I just fall in like trope after trope after trope 792 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,760 and it feels like a very familiar story and I just don't 793 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,560 like that and and probably other people are more creative and 794 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,440 subversive in their own minds. But I think when you're playing 795 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:27,440 a game with yourself, having a lot of unexpected outcomes and 796 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:32,560 things that for me what I enjoy about Solo is figuring out the 797 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,840 puzzle of like, why someone did this in character. 798 00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:37,280 Like, OK, I know they're going to make, I know they're going to 799 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,880 be really angry. Why? 800 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,240 Why did they get really angry? I know they're going to rest and 801 00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:42,880 it's going to be a little unexpected. 802 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:44,680 Like why did they choose to do that? 803 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,800 And then that's sort of, for me, at least with Cloud Empress, 804 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,280 where the role-playing happens. And so that's one part. 805 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,520 The other pieces, that's the routines. 806 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:57,400 The Rivals piece is I got this into the odd has sort of this 807 00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,280 rival setup that I thought was really neat. 808 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,760 And so it's how to generate a rival traveling party and 809 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,520 including motivations and sort of weirdness and what they're 810 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,200 carrying and who's following them. 811 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,720 And so it's this idea of having another version of you. 812 00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:16,520 There's a lot of travelers out in the world because the Society 813 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,480 and the Lowland Wastes is migratory, especially in the 814 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,160 summer. And so who else is traveling and 815 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:23,440 why are they in conflict with you? 816 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,480 And sometimes that conflict could be like you're both 817 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,960 looking for the same thing or they're an ex lover that's kind 818 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,320 of mad at you and like they're, you know, they're just like, I 819 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,560 don't know, I don't want to make it too dark or anything, but, 820 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,760 you know, they're they're like they're you don't like them 821 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,000 anymore and so you're bumping into them in all these social 822 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,280 engagements. So it doesn't necessarily mean, 823 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,400 again with the whole vibe of Cloud Empress, that it's this 824 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,240 person waiting in the bushes trying to shoot you. 825 00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:51,240 I think that might be the case, you know, once in a while. 826 00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:54,400 But I think the the traveling rival parties are going to be 827 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,880 for a variety of motivations and reasons and also designing at 828 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,000 least that piece to be something that would be potentially 829 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,160 interesting and useful to folks playing in a multiplayer setting 830 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,680 as well. And that'll be a trifold 831 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,080 template. I love, I I love cloud Empress. 832 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,000 I love so much about Cloud Empress, but I do really 833 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,520 appreciate the fact that, I mean, obviously you created it 834 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,360 and you have an amazing understanding of the thing that 835 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,760 you've created, but like that whole, like your group of 836 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,280 friends or like new acquaintances, like traveling 837 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,240 through the summer together, I love that you're like solo rules 838 00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:31,600 are going to keep that focused. Because yeah, I do. 839 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,240 I don't think like the single hero narrative would work well. 840 00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:37,560 And I love that. The interplay of people and 841 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,440 like, yeah, figuring out what they're, why they do, the things 842 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,800 that they do. And the Rival system sounds like 843 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,440 a blast. I could see that being just a 844 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,520 person who doesn't like, doesn't attack you, which kind of 845 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,080 subverts you and tries to fuck you over every time they bump 846 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:52,360 into you or is just kind of rude. 847 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,960 Or like a wanderling ghost that just, like, is pissed at you and 848 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,080 just seems to materialize like, you know, like, hey, like, why'd 849 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:00,600 you do that? Like, why'd you kill me? 850 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,720 You know, something. Like I the humor is something I 851 00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:06,040 always try to keep up like sort of on that, you know, another 852 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,720 kind of element on the edge. I think humor is it's really 853 00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:13,040 dangerous to center humor at the center of things. 854 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:19,280 For me, people's sense of humor, it's just it's all over and I 855 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,400 don't know I well. You don't want to force it. 856 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,240 You want to be like an occurrence. 857 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:30,880 And I I, I try to give people like one of the the biomes is 858 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,280 called thick wood you know so it's just sort of on the cusp 859 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,040 there like if people want to mess with that they can like if 860 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,480 you know or Fort snack like that's that's a little bit more 861 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,800 on on it. But you know it's like do you 862 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,080 want to touch it or not. I don't know. 863 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,800 You know, is your group, Is that something your group's 864 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,840 interested in? You know, I try not to key on 865 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:53,640 jokes for people, but yeah. No Thick Wood would be the whole 866 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,520 episode of of Stuff over on Dragon Vane. 867 00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:00,600 So absolutely. I think, I think in our Dragon 868 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:04,120 Vane campaign, there's a, I don't even know what it's 869 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:05,280 called. It's called like the Magnus 870 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,360 Woods or something and there's not been a single time, I 871 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:08,840 haven't called it like Magnum wood. 872 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,040 So thick wood would definitely get the triple C treatment on 873 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,360 that one. That's a lot of stuff you're 874 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,040 packing into a trifold pamphlet, though. 875 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,760 Like it's out. Like, I thought, like you could 876 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,320 fill a whole book with everything you were just talking 877 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,680 about South for just the trifold that's going to be, that's going 878 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,320 to be pretty dense as well, right? 879 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:32,960 Yeah, I guess the the, the for me, solo has to be really rules 880 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,880 light, right. I guess. 881 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,280 I don't know why, but that's to me it has to be. 882 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,760 I guess it's why is that? I don't know. 883 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:47,000 It's it's social obligation goes a long way for me in playing a 884 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,200 game with other people, like doing the work. 885 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:54,120 I do play a lot of solo board games now, but to take the time 886 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,360 to set something up and also learn it and it's not a social 887 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,480 experience, I think it's it's a little challenging for me. 888 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:07,160 And so I think the Rivals piece is going to be like the entire 889 00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,240 interior spread of the pamphlet and then there'll be a cover and 890 00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:13,200 then I think the back will be the routine for traveling. 891 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,240 So I think that's sort of how to imagine it with some little text 892 00:50:17,240 --> 00:50:19,560 blurbs explaining what they what they kind of do and how to use 893 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:20,960 them. Gotcha. 894 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,960 I also don't want my my solo play to be that like heavily 895 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,520 ruled. I completely agree. 896 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:28,880 Yeah. Yeah. 897 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,920 Like you said if there, if, if there's other people I'm doing 898 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,520 stuff with the the amount of time it takes to get set up and 899 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:34,960 prepped and ready to go feels good. 900 00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:37,720 But if it's just me, man, like I don't want it to be that. 901 00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:40,320 I don't want an hour set up to to play with myself. 902 00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:45,520 You know, one of the things you said about Cloud Empress in the 903 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,360 specifically about, gosh, something we said just a bit 904 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,320 ago, the Almanac and everything is really interesting. 905 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,840 I know that Karen Tui is funding right now and its campaign blew 906 00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,480 up as well and that book has been free digitally forever, 907 00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,560 which is super appreciative. It's great for people to play 908 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,880 it, and even if you look at like Wattsy's business model with 909 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,560 five E, they make all these adventures and all this bullshit 910 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,280 or whatever. But their number one seller 911 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,560 every year perpetually, is always a core rule book and 912 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,440 everything they do is designed to just sell more core rule 913 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,120 books. But it's really, yeah, I think 914 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:22,960 it's really intelligent. I wish more people would stop 915 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:29,960 pay walling like their core stuff, because getting the 916 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:34,000 access to the game, every time you write a new adventure, 917 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,400 someone's gonna go, oh that looks neat. 918 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,560 Oh, I need the rules to play, so I'll go get the rules. 919 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,480 But like like mouse shutter for example is another one where 920 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,120 like all of their course stuff is free. 921 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,240 But let me tell you what, those box hits fly off the shelves. 922 00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:49,280 So it's just really intelligent for at least from our my 923 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,600 perspective with the number of games, the stuff that we've 924 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,440 reviewed and read and the accessibility aspect of it Like 925 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,760 value is a score on our metrics for a reason. 926 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,840 And having free rules and stuff is such a huge part of it, but 927 00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:06,560 also is the extra content. So when you can have like right 928 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,600 now, you can find the core rules, you can find an 929 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,160 adventure, you can find all that stuff. 930 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,200 And if someone didn't back the first one, when they're looking 931 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,120 at life and death and stuff like that, like if I want to back the 932 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,720 first one, I can tell you right now, as soon as I saw death, I 933 00:52:17,720 --> 00:52:21,240 would have bought this one too. But to check it out, I can go 934 00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:25,200 get the rules now. So to me, I again, it's I I 935 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,800 think that's a fantastic model to always have as much digitally 936 00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,640 free, especially in this environment financially that so 937 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,200 many people live in. But just in general like you're 938 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,400 gonna push a lot more people towards your game when your game 939 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,520 is accessible and then everything you put out can 940 00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,400 continue to feedback to the beginning. 941 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,840 So I really, again, again, another reason we really like 942 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,560 the way that you're doing stuff, So we'll just say that a bunch 943 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:51,320 more times. We're big fans. 944 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:53,000 I don't know if you've caught on to this. 945 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,080 We're like huge fans of yours, so. 946 00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,600 Only your 5th episode, you know. I mean, I buy vinyl, right? 947 00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,240 So it's like, you know, I can get the vinyl on Spotify, but 948 00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:05,960 it's the experience. And so I try to think about that 949 00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:10,360 as like the experience of of touching something physically is 950 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:14,120 is really magical And reading for me, I mean reading, I still 951 00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,200 read a lot in print. And so that's kind of the target 952 00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,440 like point of sale that I'm thinking about is and and also 953 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,760 too I mean I think it's just gosh, what was it? 954 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,000 I don't know how giving value sounds like creating value for 955 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,280 people giving value. For the shareholders. 956 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:32,440 You know, I would say like being. 957 00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,760 I would say being generous is probably the more human way to 958 00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,800 say that of like. I think generosity goes both 959 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:41,960 ways. And so I think if someone is, 960 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:49,800 I'll give an example. I think cool Mini or not, I I 961 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,160 don't know. I play a lot of board games, but 962 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,400 they do these these really, they're they're one of the big, 963 00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,400 like Kickstarter breakout companies, right? 964 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:02,880 They do these campaigns with like a ton of stretch goals that 965 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,120 are all like miniatures, and you get like double the amount of 966 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,160 miniatures if you back the stretch goals and stuff. 967 00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,720 But there's a lot of like FOMO that's used to like you're only 968 00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:12,600 have this one chance to get it and then it's going to be like 969 00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,880 $200 more. And obviously some of that's 970 00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,240 dictated by their manufacturing costs and the tooling charges 971 00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:23,600 and all these kinds of things. But I think a lot of times the 972 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,320 way that they generate FOMO is not very generous to their 973 00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,280 audience. And I think that's reflected 974 00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,480 then in like how their audience treats them and how they talk 975 00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:33,560 about the company. And it's there's not a lot of 976 00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,600 generosity when you hear people talk about Coleman or not, for 977 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,800 example. And so I think that's the piece 978 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:43,880 too, that I want to build a community that feels generous to 979 00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,520 one another and to me for my own. 980 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:51,360 I mean I can control that part but you know offering the the 981 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:55,040 discount that I think I could viably do and and still remain 982 00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,360 soluble and and healthy and happy for the folks that you 983 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,800 know supporting people that support you early on is really 984 00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,440 important to me. And and making sure like the 985 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,480 folks that backed hot stuff on surely like they took the 986 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,760 biggest risk on me and the people that backed the previous 987 00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,360 campaign took a bigger risk, you know or whatever same amount of 988 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,360 risk or whatever. But you know, really supporting 989 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,120 the people that support you is is important provided, you know, 990 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:26,360 they're not, you know, toxic or or really holding you to 991 00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,560 standards that are unreasonable or something like that. 992 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,760 And that's to where I think that's the other piece about 993 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:35,160 being really loose with like a refund policy and just like hey, 994 00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,600 like no, this is like this isn't working. 995 00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,920 I think I had to do that. I don't think really ever. 996 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,320 But I'm, I'm really open to people not buying my stuff like 997 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,880 if you know whatever like if it's not for you or you think 998 00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:50,040 it's a bad move what I'm doing like I can tell you why we could 999 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,040 talk through it. It can choose some of the 1000 00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:56,320 rationale. But yeah, you know, like I'm 1001 00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,000 happy to fire customers too. Like, I don't know that's, 1002 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,600 that's. Is a fine line, you know, I 1003 00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:03,320 mean, it's good. It's good to err on the side of 1004 00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,520 like of generosity, of creating a positive space. 1005 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,200 But it's also good to keep in mind they're like, yeah, 1006 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,240 absolutely fire a customer. You know, if that person's in 1007 00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:13,160 the comments of your your Kickstarter page saying that 1008 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,440 because they've given you money, they also own part of your 1009 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,120 project and you'll answer to them, you should get rid of that 1010 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,400 person. I haven't had to do that yet, so 1011 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,880 it's easy for me to say right like, but I. 1012 00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:28,440 I'm definitely like referencing a specific instance, that yeah. 1013 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,320 But I mean, also, you might not have had to deal with that 1014 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,400 because of the way that you've promoted and been like it's 1015 00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:35,840 exactly the community that you've built. 1016 00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,240 You know, like you, I mean, with the amount of money across both 1017 00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:41,080 projects and the number of backers that you're bringing 1018 00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:44,800 into both, like, it's great that you're thousands of people at 1019 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,720 this point and haven't had to deal with that. 1020 00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:49,120 And that could also be part of that generosity too. 1021 00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,760 Speaking of generosity as well, your gosh, this numbers got up 1022 00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,440 since I've been sitting here watching it, But you're about, I 1023 00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:01,040 don't know, 490 bucks away from the next stretch goal. 1024 00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:05,280 And that stretch goal is, if I remember correctly, when you 1025 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:06,840 stretch. And so I'm not talking to my 1026 00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,600 ass, but it's Creator fund. The Creator Fund Speaking of 1027 00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:15,200 generosity, So what is I know that you've previously you know 1028 00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,440 there's a part on your website about like grants and stuff but 1029 00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,960 what is the Platypus Creator Fund and what made you want to 1030 00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,240 have that as a a stressful here in this project? 1031 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:28,120 So totally stole this from Possum Creek Games. 1032 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,560 Wander Home did this. It was such a great idea so I'm 1033 00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:33,360 happy to do it. I haven't seen a ton of people 1034 00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:37,800 do this so I hope more folks see my campaign and see Possum 1035 00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:45,280 Creek's game and and with Wander Home I guess what it is it's 1036 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,360 through the Kickstarter. It's not a charity. 1037 00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,680 It is a I'm commissioning someone to make something for 1038 00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,560 the world of cloud Empress through an open application 1039 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,680 process And so I think they're going to be they were and they 1040 00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:03,520 are going to be like $500 grants and that's really to do pretty 1041 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,760 much whatever you want with it. You have to sort of talk about 1042 00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,000 how you're going to use that funds. 1043 00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,080 But that could be I know artwork's expensive right. 1044 00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:14,800 So I wanna spend all 500 on a cover of a whatever or it could 1045 00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,640 be it's you know I just need something I need to pay some of 1046 00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:23,000 my bills so that I can not have to do gig work or so that I can 1047 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,440 feel more comfortable and have the mental space to do this 1048 00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:30,520 writing. There's no expectation of 1049 00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:32,400 completing it. It would be really great. 1050 00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,400 I announce who those people are and what they're doing. 1051 00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,760 So I think the audience creates that expectation. 1052 00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,440 But you know, obviously stuff comes up, it's just sort of a 1053 00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:44,240 it's meant to be a grant in that someone has a good idea. 1054 00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:49,240 On the other piece too that isn't, it's sort of central is 1055 00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,200 this idea of trying to get the money in the hands of people 1056 00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:56,760 that are newer or wouldn't necessarily you know see 1057 00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,960 themselves reflected in the TTRPG industry and and really 1058 00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:02,200 hear from unique voices. And so that's the other kind of 1059 00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:07,000 piece around it is looking at one of the things I've always 1060 00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:11,960 tried to do with Cloud Empress is to have a really diverse team 1061 00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:17,600 working on it, diversity and sort of all aspects that that I 1062 00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,920 can think of. So this is another opportunity 1063 00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,000 to continue to grow that that diverse team that contributes to 1064 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,280 Cloud Empress. And then the other piece too, I 1065 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:32,000 mean that's sort of first the, the second piece of that is sort 1066 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,040 of supporting this Cloud Empress ecosystem. 1067 00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,800 So Cloud Empress has a really I was going to say generous it's 1068 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:41,880 sort of standard in the third party world but people can make 1069 00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,160 stuff with Cloud Empress and they they have the badge you 1070 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,600 know set in the world of Cloud Empress. 1071 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,720 So people can make content using a lot of the like overarching 1072 00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:54,760 themes and setting and lore and mechanisms. 1073 00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,320 So it's just sort of supporting that sort of creation as well 1074 00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,720 and it's it's really fun to hear people's ideas and and to 1075 01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:07,280 encourage the work. It's been it's been a good time 1076 01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,320 and and the other piece, one of the things I was really 1077 01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,720 surprised by I did some amount of surveying previous backers 1078 01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,840 about. Why did you back the project? 1079 01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,640 Like what? What are you interested in? 1080 01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:27,600 And part of the thing too is I'm really motivated to be community 1081 01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:31,080 driven and and as ethical as I can be and really try to be a 1082 01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:35,880 values driven publisher. And so part of that was engaging 1083 01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:40,160 my audience and and hearing what they wanted to support. 1084 01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:46,240 So how did they prioritize recycled paper versus funding 1085 01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:47,720 indie creators and that kind of thing? 1086 01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:51,800 And and by and large, the the biggest thing that they told me 1087 01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,880 was like, we want to support you as a small creator doing this 1088 01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,200 and we want to support other people who are indie creators 1089 01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:03,080 making artwork. And I think that can be like 1090 01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:10,120 surprising and humbling for me. But it it's it's really awesome 1091 01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:15,360 to be part of a community by and large like the the TTRPG world 1092 01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,880 that supports so many indie creators and and supports them 1093 01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,320 in taking these risks, but also wants to like further that chain 1094 01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:27,360 of support through folks you know even smaller than myself 1095 01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:28,880 making new stuff for Cloud Empress. 1096 01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,840 I do love how supportive the indie scene is. 1097 01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:36,440 It really is always, yeah, humbling and just astounding how 1098 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,640 much everyone tries to prop each other up on their shoulders to 1099 01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,600 like get the everyone seen more and get the work out. 1100 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,040 And like the. Promotion that we all do for 1101 01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:47,360 each other at all points in time. 1102 01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,280 It really is very lovely, you know, Especially when you're on 1103 01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,720 Twitter and you're like, well, really, something's good on 1104 01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:57,000 Twitter, you know? Well, I'll say too, just for me. 1105 01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:00,360 I've told this story maybe a couple times. 1106 01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:02,240 I don't think I've told it here. I hope not. 1107 01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:07,640 I was making the first Clad in first book. 1108 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:12,200 I was selling a lot of my stuff to buy the artwork and so I I 1109 01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,880 sold a Rickenbacker bass guitar that I had for a long time to 1110 01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:17,840 get. You know, I think it was like 1111 01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:22,160 900 bucks to buy more art and I was running out of money and 1112 01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:27,680 there was a game jam that Sean McCoy of Tuesday Night Games 1113 01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,920 sort of kicked up, you know, or or supported on the Discord. 1114 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,320 I think somebody else maybe came up with it, but it was this idea 1115 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:39,040 called Voices of the Void where folks would create mothership 1116 01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:42,280 pamphlets and materials that sort of existed in world like 1117 01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,160 diegetic pamphlets and materials. 1118 01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:50,640 And his sort of commitment was like we'll buy 50 copies of what 1119 01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,200 everyone makes, like whatever they are, just we'll buy them 1120 01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:55,680 and we'll put them on the store and it'll be the swim thing. 1121 01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:01,640 And so I don't know what I, how I calculated it exactly but I 1122 01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,320 was like Oh my gosh. Like that's 250 bucks if I saw 1123 01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:06,280 it this much. And you know that's like 2 1124 01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:08,880 pieces of artwork that I'm not you know I that could help the 1125 01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:13,040 Kickstarter campaign. So I spent probably like I don't 1126 01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:15,080 know like probably 20 to 30 hours on this. 1127 01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:20,840 It was called Aniforms and it's. I should release it for free 1128 01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:21,480 still. Yeah. 1129 01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:25,320 But it's essentially about this machine that lets you put your 1130 01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,800 brain into the brain of an animal for a short amount of 1131 01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:32,160 time. And so it's about, Android's 1132 01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,600 starting to do this where androids are starting to upload 1133 01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,160 their consciousness into like, pigeons and bunnies and stuff, 1134 01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:42,960 and there's a celebrity that her brains put into a tiger and the 1135 01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,760 Tiger's abducted. And, you know, there's this 1136 01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,200 mystery thing. But yeah, anyway, I did this 1137 01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,160 whole thing for like 250 bucks, right? 1138 01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:58,000 So I, you know, money's so subjective in terms of what, but 1139 01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,280 for me, like a $500 would have been like so much freaking money 1140 01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:04,600 to to pursue my art. Like, wow, like, you know, so 1141 01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:09,480 but now looking at a campaign that's like close to $75,000, 1142 01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:13,720 like $200 isn't, you know, or $500 isn't that much to give to 1143 01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:18,280 somebody else to do that work. And I don't know how that makes 1144 01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:23,520 me sound, but it's just strange. Like a little success if you can 1145 01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:29,000 maintain it And again, like keep your reputation intact and keep 1146 01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,400 your Wellness intact, like your personal health and Wellness 1147 01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,280 intact, success feels like it can really steamroll. 1148 01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,200 If you build that goodwill and you you start to build an 1149 01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:46,400 audience that is interested in your your work it it's you know 1150 01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,040 a lot of it is still difficult, but a lot of it becomes a lot 1151 01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,640 easier and a lot less stressful when you when you people start 1152 01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:55,040 to get to know you a little bit and they they start to like what 1153 01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,320 you make. I think it's great that like 1154 01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:02,640 your take away from like coming from the point of selling your 1155 01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,600 Rickenbacker bass guitar and like doing this 30 hours work 1156 01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,600 for 250 extra bucks. Your take away from that is that 1157 01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:12,880 now you you're on the flip side. You're like, Oh no, I will give 1158 01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,760 somebody the opportunity to not have to sell that thing that 1159 01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:17,840 they have that they like, Even if it's a thing that maybe they 1160 01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:19,120 don't use every day but they like. 1161 01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,560 Or to put in like a ton of extra work for not a little bit. 1162 01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:25,880 I mean right now for be 250 bucks would be great. 1163 01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,040 But like I I think it says a lot about you as a person, your 1164 01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,040 character, that that's your take away from it. 1165 01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:37,040 Thanks. Yeah, I mean and and I just two 1166 01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:41,120 people that are in my special thanks are Sean McCoy and Luke 1167 01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:44,200 Gearing. Sean, because the TKG web store 1168 01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,240 like, buys a bunch of stuff and they don't. 1169 01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:48,200 I think that's the same with Exalted Funeral. 1170 01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:51,840 I I did my first scene and Exalted Funeral and Spearwitch 1171 01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,320 bought like 20 of them. And I was like 20, you know, 1172 01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:57,840 like, Oh my gosh, you know, and and even Exalted Funeral, I 1173 01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:01,640 forget who it was working there. I don't remember their name, but 1174 01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,120 they were like, oh, do you need like help paying for the print 1175 01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:07,080 run? Like, you know, we'll, we'll 1176 01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:08,880 pay, we'll help you. You know, we confront you the 1177 01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:10,720 money and then you can send it to us and all this kinds of 1178 01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:13,520 stuff. And that's just like so cool. 1179 01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:21,880 I think the they're a lot of the the vendors aren't like 1180 01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:25,640 tastemakers in the in the way that they like. 1181 01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:27,840 They let their audience be the tastemaker. 1182 01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:32,640 They do sort of take reasonable risks, right, Based on how 1183 01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:37,320 something looks. And you know, I don't think, I 1184 01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:40,240 don't know like my book where was of Wall Street, like no one 1185 01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,400 was going to buy 200 copies right away, right. 1186 01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,160 Because I was an unknown entity and the the book didn't look as 1187 01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,680 good as Cloud Empress, but just the willingness to take risks. 1188 01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:55,080 And and I think 2 cultures have values, right? 1189 01:06:55,080 --> 01:07:00,000 Like communities have values and there's a value about like 1190 01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:06,200 experimentation and newness and strangeness that that is so I 1191 01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:08,760 think built into the Zine format in particular and why I love 1192 01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,160 Zine so much. It doesn't really you know 1193 01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:16,080 that's the other piece too is this sort of like I don't know 1194 01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:20,360 going through like publisher puberty is like it doesn't make 1195 01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:24,040 a lot of sense for me to publish scenes as as much anymore with 1196 01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:27,840 the like financial level I'm at. But it's it's like kind of sad 1197 01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:31,680 because these are so awesome and so experimental and and amazing. 1198 01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:35,600 So I don't know. Yeah that's a lot there. 1199 01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:40,120 But I just love this this community so much and and the 1200 01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,360 the connection between creators and publishers and all those 1201 01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:44,880 kinds of stuff or I guess retailers maybe is a better way 1202 01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:47,840 to put that for Exalted Funeral and Spirit Witch and some other 1203 01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,480 folks. Igloo Tree who does fulfillment 1204 01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:52,360 for you know has done fulfillment for a lot of my 1205 01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:57,120 campaigns. Yeah, there's a lot of great 1206 01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:58,960 people, great stuff in the space. 1207 01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:01,160 I mean, Space Penguin's another one that's doing a lot of really 1208 01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:03,200 good stuff in the in the community as well, so. 1209 01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:05,160 I love Jared. Yeah. 1210 01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:07,960 I think it's also really nice that you got in with Mothership, 1211 01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:12,600 which because of Sean McCoy and stuff like that, they built up a 1212 01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,480 really fantastic support of community. 1213 01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:19,880 So that was a good one I think to get the foot in the door for 1214 01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:25,000 and kind of have a basin. So I'm sure that could only 1215 01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,479 help. And Ian use some, I'll just 1216 01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:28,920 shout out. I'll shout out more people. 1217 01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,720 But Ian use some of Old Breach. Old Breach fame. 1218 01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,640 I mean I'll just be like Ian like can you look at my pledge 1219 01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,000 levels, right, Like he helped me set my pledge levels for the 1220 01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:42,080 first campaign. You know he does some 1221 01:08:43,359 --> 01:08:45,600 development game development work and he looked at funeral 1222 01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:47,960 for the anti St. and was like these are the things that aren't 1223 01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,160 working for me and here's what should change and these kinds of 1224 01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:51,880 things you know totally for free. 1225 01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:53,680 I, I, you know, I would have paid them. 1226 01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:55,279 You know, I'd like don't do any more. 1227 01:08:55,279 --> 01:08:57,760 I always tell people like, you know, like they'll say I'll take 1228 01:08:57,760 --> 01:08:59,000 a look at this. I'm like please don't do 1229 01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,200 anything that, you know, you you want to charge for or just let 1230 01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:04,439 you know, whatever. I I try not to ever use people's 1231 01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:10,000 like time for free at this point in my, you know, publishing 1232 01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:11,880 career. But you know just like the the 1233 01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:15,359 generosity and willingness to help others that I don't doesn't 1234 01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:17,120 feel very competitive in the field. 1235 01:09:17,399 --> 01:09:20,160 I mean, I there's some friendly rivalries that I have that I 1236 01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:26,640 look at other people's work. I heard Brian Eno on a it was 1237 01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,240 like broken record or something. And he he has this attitude of 1238 01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,000 like, I heard this and I was like, damn, that's good. 1239 01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:33,359 Like, I wish I had thought of that. 1240 01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:35,040 Like that's kind of the most competitiveness. 1241 01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,600 I had it. I was just like trying to step 1242 01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:41,520 up my game around, you know, seeing the people around me. 1243 01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:44,760 But the the big thing, I talked to new creators about newer 1244 01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:45,880 creators. I'm so new what? 1245 01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,640 What do I know, right? But it's just doing something 1246 01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:53,520 unique that that has that feels identifiable and I think you can 1247 01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:58,320 do that at all budget levels. It it's not easy, but I think if 1248 01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:02,720 you're creative and you can execute something that that 1249 01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:06,600 feels different whereas a you know it's just putting two 1250 01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,920 things together that other people haven't put together 1251 01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:13,720 before, There's still space for that I think. 1252 01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:15,920 I hope, yeah. Absolutely. 1253 01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:18,920 I mean the stuff that we that that pops up on Kickstarter is 1254 01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:20,840 the stuff that we look at there's times where we're we're 1255 01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,040 both just like man, how has someone that had done this 1256 01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,080 before you know and every time we crack up in a new Z and it's 1257 01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:30,000 it's really it's really nice to see that the innovation is still 1258 01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:33,440 going strong. Hey, and no matter what what 1259 01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:36,800 your funding level and how much money you have to spend on 1260 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:43,280 projects don't use fucking AI. So your last project funded and 1261 01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,800 then delivered really quickly and I love that on this one you 1262 01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:51,880 actually have the fulfillment map and everything As far as it 1263 01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:55,280 actually getting into our hands physically it says March of 2025 1264 01:10:56,440 --> 01:11:01,920 is that, I mean obviously that is the goal is the year what 1265 01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:04,000 month being now April, January, March, April. 1266 01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:07,520 So less than a year from the campaign to actually hopefully 1267 01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:09,360 have all of it in in our hands is. 1268 01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:11,320 That the goal? Yeah, I'm trying to be 1269 01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,360 conservative with that. I'll probably I don't know we'll 1270 01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:16,240 just see we'll see you know where we are. 1271 01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:19,680 I I last one was completed I think a lot of backers got it in 1272 01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:24,000 November and the campaign ended in February so whatever that is 1273 01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:26,920 some people you know December early January for people that 1274 01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:29,960 didn't fill out their pledge manager you don't got stuff lost 1275 01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:34,400 in the mail. The big sort of unknown for me, 1276 01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:38,800 I mean it is a known unknown is just what international shipping 1277 01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:41,040 looks like and working with a large development partner. 1278 01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:46,080 So even something like manufacturing took a week before 1279 01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:49,920 it's going to take like three to six weeks now and international 1280 01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:54,480 shipping freight to fulfillment hubs is going to take 6 to 8 1281 01:11:54,480 --> 01:11:56,040 weeks And so building that all in. 1282 01:11:56,040 --> 01:12:00,320 So I have I built a giant Gantt chart now, which I did before, 1283 01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:05,120 but it it's really important and I'm going to be working as fast 1284 01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:10,000 as I can again with some trying to build some healthy work like 1285 01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:13,400 work life balance stuff in here because this isn't my day job 1286 01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:18,480 and I have family. Mind blowing that this is not 1287 01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:23,320 your day job. Yeah, well, I, you know, the 1288 01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:25,640 last Kickstarter could not support someone. 1289 01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,920 You know, even a $100,000 campaign could not support. 1290 01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:32,280 I mean, most people living a reasonable life, unfortunately, 1291 01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:36,240 you know, So it's a, it's a yeah. 1292 01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:41,160 I mean, I I mean just mean that you're like, you're fairly good 1293 01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:42,240 at this. Thank you. 1294 01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:47,680 Well yeah I I, you know I bring project management skills and 1295 01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,240 things I do professionally into it. 1296 01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:56,440 But I I like doing it. It's it's what I I don't know I 1297 01:12:56,440 --> 01:13:02,360 I think the other piece too is my dad worked in a creative 1298 01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:09,640 industry growing up and owned his own business and I saw like 1299 01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:13,760 one how paying for your own health insurance sucks it's so 1300 01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:16,880 bad in America. So just think about all the 1301 01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:20,160 creativity and amazing things we could have if our society 1302 01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:23,520 supported people's health care and we didn't have to live in 1303 01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:27,720 this society where a single health diagnosis. 1304 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:31,080 You know I guess I I forget the statistic let's let's go on a 1305 01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:35,160 like I'll have the the medical debt cloud Empress expansion 1306 01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:40,000 but. No, that's too. 1307 01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:41,800 We're getting too close to home there, bud. 1308 01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:46,560 Most, most bankruptcies are, you know, are related to medical 1309 01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:49,800 debt, right? And most folks who are unhoused 1310 01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,160 or or living in significant poverty have some medical debt 1311 01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:55,720 connection. So anyway, I wanted to have 1312 01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:57,800 health insurance. And I think the other piece too 1313 01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:07,480 is I saw how my dad like, I don't want financial success to 1314 01:14:07,480 --> 01:14:10,120 be tied to creative expression necessarily. 1315 01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:13,800 That's something I think about. But when your livelihood depends 1316 01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,280 on, like, if my livelihood started to depend on this, I 1317 01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,440 would start making probably different decisions. 1318 01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:25,480 Like, I don't know what I would do, but I would start really 1319 01:14:25,480 --> 01:14:29,160 pulling on tropes. I think in particular, like I 1320 01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:32,760 would do like, you know, really bring it Bloodborne, right? 1321 01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:34,120 Or from soccer or, you know, I don't know. 1322 01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:39,440 I would just start to bring in a lot more familiar elements, more 1323 01:14:39,440 --> 01:14:43,400 so than I already do and and probably pander a little bit 1324 01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:47,520 more 'cause I I'd just be so concerned about not making the 1325 01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:51,240 money I need to make to live. And so I think right now I do 1326 01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:53,800 things to bring this to a wide audience. 1327 01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:55,360 That's important to me and it's and. 1328 01:14:55,800 --> 01:15:00,000 But I I don't feel I am a little concerned. 1329 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,480 Like I I wanted to make sure I'm feeling good about the campaign 1330 01:15:02,480 --> 01:15:04,120 now. But there's this risk of like 1331 01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:07,560 committing to this box set and then having way too few people 1332 01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:09,840 do it and having to eat a lot of that cost or I don't know what I 1333 01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:15,040 would have done. So, but yeah, I I think having 1334 01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:21,040 the freedom to step into and out of this work because my 1335 01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:23,680 livelihood doesn't depend on it, it makes it a lot healthier for 1336 01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:26,520 me. Yeah, I could see that. 1337 01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:29,360 That's very reasonable. Yeah, I mean you got to have a 1338 01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:32,160 balance with everything that you do and you know so many people 1339 01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,400 say, I mean so few people, so few. 1340 01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:40,120 I think way less people than people think live full time in 1341 01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:42,320 TTRPGS and have this be their only job. 1342 01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:45,200 Like way less people than people think. 1343 01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:50,000 Like I genuinely think it's less than like 3 digit number like in 1344 01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:51,960 the in this current especially this scene here. 1345 01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:59,000 But but yeah, talking about the campaign, we have 17 days left 1346 01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,080 to go. You're already at. 1347 01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:03,320 I mean, the campaign's got up like 3-4 hundred dollars since 1348 01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:06,360 since we started this, since we started this interview you're 1349 01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:07,840 at. Present the show. 1350 01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:09,160 Yeah. It's awesome. 1351 01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:10,960 Come. On everyone, come on in. 1352 01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:14,000 But getting close to 900 backers? 1353 01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:17,480 Getting close to 75 K? 17 days to go, you know, 1354 01:16:17,480 --> 01:16:20,240 Definitely already scratched on the door for for six figures. 1355 01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:25,360 A lot happening, a lot going on, a lot coming in the works, but 1356 01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:28,360 stuff is already out. Now like you said, the the we're 1357 01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:32,280 getting redone hardbacks but the the game is still out there. 1358 01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:34,600 It's still present. It's online to download. 1359 01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:37,600 If people are interested in the project, which they absolutely 1360 01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,840 should be, they should get all this stuff now for it. 1361 01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:43,800 Where can they? Like, what's your website? 1362 01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:45,640 Where can people find the downloads that we've talked 1363 01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:47,000 about for all the digital stuff online? 1364 01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:50,920 Like where can people find you so they can continue to follow 1365 01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:53,080 support and and check out Cloud Empress. 1366 01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:56,520 Sure. So Cloud empress.com is the 1367 01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:58,760 easiest place to find it. That links you to the campaign 1368 01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,080 page. Cloud Empress Life and Death. 1369 01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:04,720 Google search should find you the Kickstarter and then Cloud 1370 01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:06,480 Empress. In drive through RPG you'll find 1371 01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:09,560 you a lot of stuff. One thing that someone asked 1372 01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:15,040 about that, I guess I've decided is that once we get in, once the 1373 01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:22,640 campaign funds the, the broader, the broader PDF send out for 1374 01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:27,840 land of Cicadas will happen towards the like once orders are 1375 01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:31,480 locked and stuff like that. But if people e-mail me, I'll 1376 01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:34,120 have an announcement about it, but people can e-mail me and 1377 01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:36,160 I'll send you the land of cicadas. 1378 01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:38,560 So don't buy that if you're going to back the campaign 1379 01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:43,680 provided you back it at the right pledge level, right. 1380 01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:46,040 So there are a couple pledges that include that book, but 1381 01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:49,080 don't feel like you need to buy the PDF now, just back it and 1382 01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,280 then I'll there will be a message out and I'll get that to 1383 01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:54,680 you once the campaign's funded again, so you don't have to buy 1384 01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,560 it twice or wait a year to get that PDF if you want to start 1385 01:17:57,560 --> 01:18:01,440 playing now. And the other piece with the 1386 01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:04,520 discount I guess just for folks to know is it it's not just 1387 01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,840 people have previously pledged but also I'll have it a certain 1388 01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:12,240 point in the campaign. You know if you if you take a 1389 01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:16,080 picture of your print copy that counts too any of the previous 1390 01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:19,000 materials. So I guess if it's at your local 1391 01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,280 store or something you want to buy it you will get like that 1392 01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:26,040 credit to towards the new materials again the the 1393 01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:29,720 discounts for something boring to talk about what a discount 1394 01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:31,280 what the specifics of a discount are. 1395 01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:34,680 So apologies everyone but it's it's for it's for if you're re 1396 01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:36,360 if you're re buying anything right. 1397 01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:38,720 So if you're if you have the print rule book and you're 1398 01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:41,560 getting something with the rule book in it, you get the 1399 01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:44,040 discount. If you buy something with if you 1400 01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:46,280 bought Land of Cicadas or some of the adventures and you're 1401 01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:48,240 getting it again, then you get the discount. 1402 01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:52,200 So yeah, but cloud empress.com is probably the easiest way to 1403 01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:53,480 find that in the drive through RPG. 1404 01:18:53,480 --> 01:18:54,240 Fellow links. Awesome. 1405 01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:59,880 Yeah, well, listen, it is always a pleasure to have you here. 1406 01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:02,960 For those listening, this won't be the last time you're on. 1407 01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:05,000 It probably won't be the last time you're on this year. 1408 01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:10,240 We'll see what's going on with that, but really excited to to 1409 01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:14,920 continue to support such an awesome creator and excited to 1410 01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:16,320 see what's coming for Cloud Empress. 1411 01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:19,400 We'll make sure that all the links that what you said are in 1412 01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:23,320 the descriptions below, whether you're on podcast or VOD or 1413 01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,280 whatever it is. And I'll try to remember to put 1414 01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:29,000 the links to our previous episodes with the interviews, 1415 01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:33,040 actual plays, second actual play, all the rest of that so 1416 01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:36,440 that you can check out Cloud Empress and you go back to the 1417 01:19:36,440 --> 01:19:39,120 Kickstarter. 17 days left. If you're listening to this 1418 01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:44,520 before April 25th go, go back that and and I think that's 1419 01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:47,440 going to be it for us today. So again, thank you so much for 1420 01:19:47,440 --> 01:19:48,480 being here. Really appreciate it. 1421 01:19:48,480 --> 01:19:49,400 Great. To see you again. 1422 01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:52,320 And. And we'll see all of you later. 1423 01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:53,920 Have a good one. Bye. 1424 01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:54,400 Bye.