1 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,600 Hello, and welcome to the weekly. 2 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,000 Scroll podcast brought to you by the adventure archive, my name 3 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,700 is Ryan and I'm a corridor flesh. 4 00:00:23,100 --> 00:00:26,300 And with us today we have a very special guest. 5 00:00:26,300 --> 00:00:28,900 We have Nevin homes of Donna, very press how you doing today, 6 00:00:28,900 --> 00:00:32,700 Nevin. Hey I am doing all right, I'm 7 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:35,900 Nevin of Diana. Barry press any pronouns and I'm 8 00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:38,200 here to talk about a very cool game that were working on. 9 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,500 Yeah, very soon. We're stoked, we're stoked to 10 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:44,200 have you on two, very excited to talk about this. 11 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,300 And this isn't the first game of yours were actually talking 12 00:00:47,300 --> 00:00:50,200 about. We reviewed gun and Slinger 13 00:00:52,300 --> 00:00:54,800 quite I have gosh how long that? I feel like that was one of our 14 00:00:54,800 --> 00:01:00,100 early. Yeah it was shortly after 15 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,400 fulfillment. I think because y'all have one 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,200 of y'all has a copy. I do. 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:05,900 Yeah. He is my bookshelf copy. 18 00:01:06,100 --> 00:01:12,400 Yeah yeah yeah and it's just it's really good and interesting 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:17,400 really like the way that you think about games, you know, 20 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,100 that's not the thing. I'm really excited to talk about 21 00:01:19,100 --> 00:01:23,500 with everything's fucked is just bringing Some really, really 22 00:01:23,500 --> 00:01:27,200 interesting mechanics. So I guess just pop in right in, 23 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:32,200 like, what? What got you I guess into game 24 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,000 design. Specifically. 25 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,000 I know we talked about before the stream started used to do 26 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,800 some video game reviews and things like that, then you want 27 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,700 to start doing your own but without me telling your story, 28 00:01:42,700 --> 00:01:45,300 like what got you into a game design into the to kind of where 29 00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:47,400 we're at right now. Yeah. 30 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:54,900 Um it's been so long at this point it was the first Zine 31 00:01:54,900 --> 00:01:56,500 Quest. I think that really like opened 32 00:01:56,500 --> 00:02:01,700 my eyes to what games could be. I played 5e for a while. 33 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:04,500 I played so many different versions of DnD. 34 00:02:04,700 --> 00:02:07,800 I played Shadow rod and I was like this isn't really like 35 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:13,300 scratching the itch for me and then I don't remember how it 36 00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:16,700 happened but like I was just getting into like The Wider 37 00:02:16,700 --> 00:02:20,600 world of tabletop, it was right around the time of zine Quest 38 00:02:21,900 --> 00:02:25,900 and like one of the first things that I looked at was Black Mass 39 00:02:25,900 --> 00:02:32,800 by Will Yost now of good luck. And that like opened my eyes, it 40 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,500 blew my mind. I didn't know that you could do 41 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,900 games about this kind of stuff. I didn't know that you could do 42 00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:44,400 games that didn't use Dice and I was like, oh shit. 43 00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:49,500 I want to make a game now, and I came up with to kind of silly 44 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:53,800 games that I'm very happy with that has to been called out, 45 00:02:53,800 --> 00:03:00,100 which is like looking at it, it would I Could probably make an 46 00:03:00,100 --> 00:03:05,600 argument for it being osr but it's a very silly game that uses 47 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,500 like modern social media slang set in high fantasy. 48 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,400 When like you've been framed with something. 49 00:03:11,900 --> 00:03:16,700 It's your HP, is your Twitter followers like it's so stupid 50 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:24,000 and I did skeletons spelled scale. 51 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:28,400 It ons which is just a game about working in the IT 52 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,400 department. Mint and you happen to be a 53 00:03:30,408 --> 00:03:35,100 skeleton and nobody knows that's like a hack of lasers and 54 00:03:35,100 --> 00:03:37,800 feelings and hunting heists, like mash them up. 55 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,400 Very happy with that. And from there like that was it. 56 00:03:41,700 --> 00:03:44,700 I was like I can make games. This is a lot of fun. 57 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,200 I made a bunch of silly stuff and then I made gun and Slinger 58 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:53,500 which is also kind of silly but in a different way and Along the 59 00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:58,000 way, my wife Jam came on board and we started doing a lot of 60 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,300 stuff together and we just did Dental car on crowdfunder. 61 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,700 We're currently doing late on that and you're in space and 62 00:04:06,700 --> 00:04:10,200 everything's fucked launches Tuesday. 63 00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:13,100 Wow money. All these games you're like 64 00:04:13,100 --> 00:04:15,900 incredibly different like semantically, right? 65 00:04:15,900 --> 00:04:21,500 Like like a gunslinger to to scale it on. 66 00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:25,600 To your in space and everything's fucked you, do you 67 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,600 have like a favorite fictional sub-genre, or do you like really 68 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,900 just like to move through and enjoy all of them for their 69 00:04:32,300 --> 00:04:37,400 aspects? I, I like a lot of things. 70 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,700 I like a lot of things first. I think that there are, there 71 00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:47,100 are so many genres to play in. If I had to pick a genre or 72 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:49,700 sub-genre, that is like in my favorites, it's definitely 73 00:04:49,700 --> 00:04:55,400 Horror in general. I think to a degree all of the 74 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,400 projects that I have taken, seriously, whether or not 75 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,900 they're serious projects, have a degree of like some kind of 76 00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:06,000 order to them because I kind of can't help putting it in their 77 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,600 gut. In swinger has the twist, it's 78 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,000 got that yet at, which is pretty good can be pretty scary. 79 00:05:13,100 --> 00:05:15,600 Yeah, especially with the wonderful art, that that Emma 80 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,100 did. And yeah, so, you know, 81 00:05:19,100 --> 00:05:22,200 skeletons, the horror that it's like a very corporate horror 82 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:26,800 even though it's a comedy game, you're in space and everything's 83 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,100 fucked. I think that speaks for itself 84 00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:36,600 but we also do like a lot of other stuff like Dino car Jam is 85 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:41,500 the lead on that project. It's fantastic, It's amazing And 86 00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:45,100 it's like a family friendly game about like making art and being 87 00:05:45,100 --> 00:05:51,500 a dinosaur driving a car. We like everything that we make 88 00:05:51,500 --> 00:05:55,000 runs the gamut Because like we just want to make stuff inspired 89 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,100 by the things that we that we love and we love a lot of things 90 00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:01,600 so we're just going to make like a huge wide range of stuff. 91 00:06:02,700 --> 00:06:07,000 That's very impressive to like not be pinned down like in one 92 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,600 genre for like almost any amount of time and like it'd be like an 93 00:06:10,608 --> 00:06:13,200 enjoyable experience, you know I mean what makes is a gunslinger 94 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,800 and I thought just a car was also really cool. 95 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:21,300 I can't believe I didn't name drop just because it just a car 96 00:06:21,300 --> 00:06:23,500 is like the Right. TT RPG. 97 00:06:23,700 --> 00:06:27,700 Yeah. Like, where does that fit in? 98 00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:30,400 Among all the stuff that I've come, that we have come up with 99 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:35,100 so far, like it's, it's important to us, like, it would 100 00:06:35,100 --> 00:06:37,800 be easier to like, build an audience. 101 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:41,300 But as a, as a Creator, it's easier to build an audience. 102 00:06:41,300 --> 00:06:44,800 If you like pick a thing and stick with it, neither of us 103 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,300 want to do that. Like we really, really like to 104 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:52,200 flex our muscles and see what we can do. 105 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:56,400 Do and crowdfund a family-friendly art-making game 106 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,900 directly before we crowdfund, and absolutely not family 107 00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:03,400 friendly, game about terrible monsters and Gore. 108 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,900 Like that's the that's the dino Barry Duality baby. 109 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,800 He'll think you're casting a wide net. 110 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,700 It's not bad. Not bad tactic. 111 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:13,400 You know? We just like to make stuff. 112 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,300 Yeah. So um, so what's while the 113 00:07:17,300 --> 00:07:20,500 dinosaur is, I guess, what, where did Dino Barry come from? 114 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:22,500 Then? We got down on cars and then, 115 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:25,200 you know, Dino Jam where where where's all the diamonds 116 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,200 soakers? That's a, that's a, that's a 117 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,600 jam. That's a jam thing. 118 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,000 She brought that in, we were trying to pick. 119 00:07:31,300 --> 00:07:37,200 She's been like Dino, Barry and like it goes back. 120 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:42,000 Back a ways we both love dinosaurs and one of her 121 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,300 original concepts for a logo was like this, the one that we have 122 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:49,800 now are one very similar to it. That was like a strawberry T-Rex 123 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:55,600 because if I can slap still, it does fucking slap but the idea 124 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,700 behind it I believe and she is in chat. 125 00:07:57,700 --> 00:08:01,900 She'll correct me. If I'm wrong, is we like the 126 00:08:01,900 --> 00:08:07,100 cute things and we like the the monster things, like it brings 127 00:08:07,100 --> 00:08:09,500 together. Together, the like both sides of 128 00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:12,500 what we like to do. We can beat, we can be your 129 00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:17,600 angel, or your devil, you know, we can be cute and we can be 130 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,700 monstrous and those two things don't need to exist on their 131 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:24,100 own. So Dino Berry press down a berry 132 00:08:24,100 --> 00:08:32,799 jam and and Dino car. No the idea for Dino card isn't 133 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:35,100 specifically because weird I know Barry. 134 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,500 Dino cars name came from a justicar ship post. 135 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,000 Okay. All right. 136 00:08:44,700 --> 00:08:47,900 I don't remember exactly how it went, but it was like a game 137 00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:52,000 where your I don't remember the exact details, but it became 138 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,700 what it is now, and it rolls very cool. 139 00:08:55,900 --> 00:09:01,600 Um, so when you do a lot of game design, so for example, so gonna 140 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:06,200 singer uses unless income, you know, correct me if I'm 141 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,100 completely mistaken. That's basically Black Jack when 142 00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:10,700 you play the game. Correct. 143 00:09:10,700 --> 00:09:16,200 It Which is it uses Go Fish. Primarily it uses Blackjack for 144 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,600 like, if you need to shoot something right? 145 00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:24,600 What when you were thinking of, I guess specifically you know, 146 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,300 talk my gun and Slingers just a point to talk about your 147 00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:30,200 creation process, you know, outside of you said, you're 148 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,300 inspired by horror. We've all read The Dark Tower 149 00:09:32,300 --> 00:09:35,300 and everything. But when you were sitting down 150 00:09:35,300 --> 00:09:37,900 to look at the mechanics and I, you talked about black mass and 151 00:09:37,900 --> 00:09:40,800 doing things that aren't dice mechanics, what made you go? 152 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,500 Hmm, I'm going to use cards and I only am I going to use cards, 153 00:09:44,500 --> 00:09:47,100 I'm going to use. Go Fish and blackjack and all 154 00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:48,500 those kind of things. What really made you want to sit 155 00:09:48,508 --> 00:09:50,600 down and go? How can I convert this into? 156 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,400 What is a really fucking good game? 157 00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:55,700 What made you want to pick that specifically IQ. 158 00:09:56,700 --> 00:10:03,600 So this is a secret that I think I've revealed so many times of a 159 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:08,900 huge majority of the games that I make are inspired by shitposts 160 00:10:09,300 --> 00:10:11,300 gun and swinger is no exception. Option. 161 00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:16,100 I am the result of committing to the bit too much. 162 00:10:17,700 --> 00:10:21,400 There was a game Jam going on for this thing called talk to 163 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,600 Transformer. We're like you put in a bunch of 164 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,100 text and it spits out text based on what you put in. 165 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:30,500 It was like a very, very early like a I text generator like 166 00:10:31,500 --> 00:10:35,100 five years ago at this point, I think is when that was created 167 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:40,100 in a got revamped recently, I put in a list of the games that 168 00:10:40,100 --> 00:10:43,200 I had out at Time. And it's spat out a list that 169 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:48,600 included. Your Gun is a Gun Slinger and I 170 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:55,500 wanted to do a two player versus Go Fish RPG, but a gunslinger 171 00:10:55,500 --> 00:10:59,700 fighting their gun. As I worked on those mechanics. 172 00:10:59,700 --> 00:11:05,200 I realized wait, this actually has legs for like collaborative 173 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:11,700 like story story, os are kind of game so I can Pletely shifted 174 00:11:11,700 --> 00:11:20,500 focus and it became what it is now and it kind of like worked 175 00:11:20,500 --> 00:11:23,300 from the jump. I did not have to do a lot of 176 00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:25,300 adjusting to the rules of Go Fish. 177 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:29,400 A card deck is already pretty balanced. 178 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,100 I didn't have to worry about the math for that. 179 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,600 So it was about like getting the feel and like making sure that 180 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,500 it functioned, once it functioned, it was about 181 00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:42,700 building the scaffolding around. Around it and like making it 182 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:46,100 work. Ankle. 183 00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:53,600 Yeah, is a very interesting system and kind of moving to its 184 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,600 Ryan has another question about something else because I'm going 185 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,300 to ask about your in space before. 186 00:11:58,300 --> 00:11:59,800 Let's go to. I don't enjoy his face and 187 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,000 everything stock is everything. Everything's fucked. 188 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:03,500 Yes. Which is it. 189 00:12:03,500 --> 00:12:06,800 Fantastic title. Immediately allows you to know 190 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,300 what kind of game we're about to play. 191 00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:11,200 I'm like oh okay. So it's about to be rough. 192 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,400 What? Made you go with because the 193 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,200 game is a dice pool game. It's a D6 sizable game which is 194 00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:21,700 easily when my favorite things ever that is super 195 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:23,100 underutilized. If you're listening to this, you 196 00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:24,800 create games, you should use dice fools. 197 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,700 What drove you to like, pick that as your style of play for 198 00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:32,900 this instead of like cards, like you did for Gunslinger. 199 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,200 So, again, to into an earlier Point, like we really like to do 200 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,200 things different when we do things to the former. 201 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,600 It's weird that right now, I am Of two ideas that are similar to 202 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,400 each other and development like that, we try to make our games 203 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,000 very different even from each other. 204 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,500 Unless we're you know, Adding content onto something or doing 205 00:12:56,500 --> 00:12:59,300 something very intentional. So I wanted to do something 206 00:12:59,300 --> 00:13:04,500 different and I had played, I had been playing a few games 207 00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:08,900 that use the 6th. I schools blades in the dark is 208 00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:14,500 a fantastic classic example, of a dice pool game and there's 209 00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:18,500 there's a few others, but I really wanted to sit down and 210 00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:23,600 see what I could do. And I knew from playing blades. 211 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,700 that building a pool of dice is an experience in and of itself 212 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,600 and after playing with some numbers for a bit, I realized 213 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:41,300 that it's very, very, it's very easy to adjust the Rules around 214 00:13:41,300 --> 00:13:44,600 the pool itself to make something that hits pretty much 215 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,700 any kind of tone that you would want. 216 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,500 And it leans really well into the sense of struggling that I 217 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:55,600 want the struggler character to have in this game. 218 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,300 I actually, specifically say in the rules, as you are building, 219 00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:03,700 the dice pool, the struggler should be optioning for 220 00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:05,900 advantages. The struggler should be kind of 221 00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:07,800 going. I think this is an advantage I 222 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,500 have right now because I like the Feeling that it gives him of 223 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:14,600 scrounging and struggling for every single little bit that 224 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:19,800 they can get. And it works, it works really 225 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,100 well. I mean even go so far. 226 00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:27,500 As to Name the character of the struggler is struggling, it's so 227 00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:29,400 good. Like every aspect is so 228 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:34,400 thoroughly designed in a not being over-designed, you know 229 00:14:34,408 --> 00:14:36,300 what I mean? Like you it's very clear that 230 00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:39,100 it's been, you know, gone through the fine tooth comb and 231 00:14:39,100 --> 00:14:41,200 it just like I said, it just works. 232 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,200 You know, same thing with Gunslinger and same thing with 233 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:48,300 this where you know the the intent and your design is really 234 00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:51,000 really evident and it's really really good. 235 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,400 Thank you very much. I'm glad it comes through so, 236 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:59,100 well, I try to be in everything that I work, and I try to be 237 00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:02,200 very specific about making sure I hit that tone. 238 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,100 I've actually like written multiple pieces Ford Icebreaker 239 00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:07,900 about, like, both of these things. 240 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,000 Like the language that you use in a game is extremely important 241 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:18,600 for the vibe at the table and the way you interact with its 242 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,500 mechanics like those two things. Not now, To discourse right now, 243 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:25,600 but I'm not, I'm not going to say the last course, I'm not 244 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,600 going to solve that, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to say the 245 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,100 lines, we don't need to go through this. 246 00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:36,300 Again, it's only February March, not gonna not gonna bring the 247 00:15:36,308 --> 00:15:40,700 discourse back into the town, not yet, you know, I mean, but I 248 00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:44,200 don't mind. So the the I think a lot of 249 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,000 people You know, there are a lot of people that make a lot of 250 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,900 games in, a lot of games are really good and then there's a 251 00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:51,200 lot of gay. And then, there's some games 252 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:52,700 that are really fucking good, right? 253 00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:57,300 And I think one of the things behind that is a lot of, like, 254 00:15:57,300 --> 00:15:59,600 intentionality in the design. I don't even think that's a 255 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:04,300 word, but but also the understanding that the way and 256 00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:08,100 you'll miss, you know, yeah it's ability is the word. 257 00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:12,700 Yeah, the way in which you write a game and the way in which 258 00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:17,500 characters or players interact And with not only the mechanics 259 00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:20,000 but the way you present, the mechanics defines, the way that 260 00:16:20,008 --> 00:16:23,500 you play the game, this is one reason that 5e will always fail 261 00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:26,100 and the argument that you can just make it whatever you want, 262 00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:28,200 just because we put a page in the front that said, play, 263 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,700 however, you want because then when you actually read through 264 00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:33,600 the mechanics, it's very restrictive. 265 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:39,000 So it's it's just kind of, that's a really prime example on 266 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,200 how to not present the way in which you want a game to be 267 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,900 played. So polar opposite to the In 268 00:16:45,900 --> 00:16:47,900 which you actually present the game itself. 269 00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:52,000 And I think you do a really fantastic job of presenting the 270 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,700 game in which you would like players to play reinforced by 271 00:16:56,700 --> 00:16:58,600 the mechanics and language, which you use, which is 272 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:03,400 incredibly incredibly important. Yeah, I fully agree with this. 273 00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:08,300 Even if you're making something that is like for lack of a 274 00:17:08,300 --> 00:17:11,000 better way to put it a little generic. 275 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:17,099 Like I currently have two 0s are Projects that I'm that I'm 276 00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:21,500 working on not super ready to talk about them, but they both 277 00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:26,300 use the same mechanics as a base, the same core resolution 278 00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:29,000 system. The same similar course stats. 279 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:36,600 And what I am trying to do with that is see how I can make these 280 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,400 things that have such a similar core structure, incredibly 281 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,200 different because I want the actual games to have different 282 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,300 tones. Different purposes players are 283 00:17:47,308 --> 00:17:49,800 doing different things. In these games, despite the fact 284 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:55,700 that their route is Merc Borg and I it's a, it's an important 285 00:17:55,700 --> 00:18:01,600 exercise. And I think that it shows What 286 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,400 intentionality can do? Yeah, absolutely. 287 00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:09,900 So I guess one of the things that you said in the beginning 288 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:13,200 of this, especially when you're talking about that will has to 289 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,400 been called out none of your games. 290 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,700 You just said, you were you were talking about, you know, how you 291 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,100 said it kind of I guess it could cut a blsr it's I mean this 292 00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:26,100 black leather van with a skeleton in the back but I'm not 293 00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:29,600 a lot of your games are what, you know could be called right 294 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,300 now. 0s are in a sorry, whatever the fucking discourse, once like 295 00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:35,300 all these various versions of the games now, Now, Troy Trad 296 00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:41,800 leaning, right? Wow, is there was there an 297 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,000 intent to move away specifically from those kind of mechanics? 298 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,500 Or is it just the style of the game that you wanted to create 299 00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:50,300 just happened to be a little bit? 300 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,500 Not that. Yeah, it's just something that I 301 00:18:56,500 --> 00:19:00,100 haven't really been interested in designing and until recently, 302 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,000 I wanted to see what I could do want. 303 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:10,000 One of my core focuses is pushing the medium in ways that 304 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,600 I have not done or seen done before. 305 00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:18,100 So I don't tend to like doing hacks of games, and if I do a 306 00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:22,000 heck of a game, I really try to go out there with it. 307 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,600 Like I we're working on aluminum thing right now. 308 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,300 That is we are really pushing what Lumen does and what it can 309 00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:37,700 do. and I really try to make sure if I'm sitting down to 310 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:41,100 design, something it has to be something that people haven't 311 00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:46,300 seen, or at least is in conversation in a new way, with 312 00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:51,800 things people have So I just haven't really wanted to. 313 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,500 I haven't had any ideas or inspiration for playing in that 314 00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:59,700 area before so I guess why I guess to an extent like what 315 00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:04,500 makes you want to you know, exactly like you said if you're 316 00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:07,900 gonna do something, it has to be something completely different. 317 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:12,400 What's the drive to to do that? Because there are, there are a, 318 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,100 number of great hacks out there that use really, really well 319 00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:20,200 done systems definitely makes you To go by Monday. 320 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,000 Do it. I gotta do it like way over 321 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,000 here, you know? Yeah. 322 00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:31,200 Um, it is a challenge for me and, and again, I'm not trying 323 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,000 to say, like, oh, hacks of games were easy or anything. 324 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,700 I am specifically not saying that. 325 00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:41,100 All game design is difficult and the mere fact, that games 326 00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:45,300 continue to be released and exist is wonderful and like a 327 00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:50,500 miracle in and of itself. It's just where the pull is. 328 00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:54,400 For me, the, the interesting part of design is figuring out 329 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,000 new things to do with the same components. 330 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,200 Like, how many different ways can we use dice? 331 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,100 How many different ways can we use cards? 332 00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:05,100 What if we don't use? Either of those, you know, there 333 00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:08,900 are so many games that do so many different things and I'm 334 00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:13,000 also not trying to say, like, I've definitely not saying all 335 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,300 my ideas have been original ideas, there are no original 336 00:21:16,300 --> 00:21:19,600 ideas, except the ones that are That's a whole thing. 337 00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:26,000 It's just a fun area to play it, and it's a challenge and a 338 00:21:26,008 --> 00:21:31,000 rewarding experience to push myself in ways that I haven't 339 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:38,100 pushed myself before it also in. I find that when designing 340 00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:42,200 things in new ways, new to me ways, I learn. 341 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:47,200 I learn more about design, you know, I didn't go to school for 342 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,900 this or anything like, Like that. 343 00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:53,200 I'm we are jamming. I are both learning by doing and 344 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,000 by doing new things, we learn ways in which things do and 345 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:02,900 don't work and we learn why it's very experimental, very very fun 346 00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:04,900 and like that's I guess that would be the, why? 347 00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:06,400 It's just a different kind of challenge. 348 00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:10,000 Yeah, I mean, which is always a great reason to do something. 349 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,700 When you can have like a again, like an intent of focus, 350 00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:17,100 something that will always be kind of like that Guiding Light. 351 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,200 It can. They keep you centered on the 352 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,200 thing that you're focusing on, so that's a great way to or 353 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:23,800 great reason to do that is the thing. 354 00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:28,000 So getting back into urine space and everything's fucked. 355 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,800 Did we talked about was the title of shitpost of? 356 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,800 We already say that is that the title is fantastic. 357 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,500 But where exactly did you come from? 358 00:22:39,100 --> 00:22:43,100 This is, this is one of the few games that we've done, that did 359 00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:47,000 not start as a shitpost. This is a, this is a fully 360 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:53,400 genuine. Eject, I love horror. 361 00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:59,100 I love sci-fi horror, I wanted to make a sci-fi horror game and 362 00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:04,600 there's there's so many games. The sci-fi horror is not a new 363 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,000 or unpopular genre in tabletop games. 364 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,400 Especially right now, we have the Fantastic projects 365 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,500 Mothership death in space. So many others, like it's not a 366 00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:18,200 new genre. I wanted. 367 00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:23,400 Take one and I like to do I like to do silly things. 368 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:35,000 I'm a silly little guy so I named it and it just it's stuck. 369 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,300 It's a fun name, it gets it name, it gets people's 370 00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:42,000 attention, you know, to peel back the curtain. 371 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:47,700 Again, it's a good marketing. Name to a degree when you say, 372 00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:50,500 hey, I'm gonna play this game. You're in space that 373 00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:52,000 everything's fucked. People go. 374 00:23:52,300 --> 00:23:56,200 Oh, oh, really. Where can I learn more about 375 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,000 this? You know, I don't know if I 376 00:24:00,008 --> 00:24:02,900 would advise putting a swear word in a name that you're in 377 00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:06,200 the name of a game that you're trying to sell and Market. 378 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,600 It is pretty limiting the degree to which people are willing to 379 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,800 post on their website. The word fuck. 380 00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:18,200 Yeah, I mean, I'm that's all over ours. 381 00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:25,900 So, you know, we did a press release valve. 382 00:24:25,900 --> 00:24:27,700 Okay, we've got a date. Do you want to cover it? 383 00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:30,000 Here's our press kit. We actually got a number of 384 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,900 people Aid. Not the majority of people but a 385 00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:39,400 a definite nonzero number of outlets responded and be like 386 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,700 hey if you change the name of the game we can cover it. 387 00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:46,300 Really. We got we got a few people who 388 00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:51,400 ask this to change the name of the game, and we got more people 389 00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:55,000 who were like, hey, this would be really fun to cover but it 390 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,600 says, fuck in my boss won't, let me say that. 391 00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:02,300 And that's, that's a whole other conversation that I don't feel 392 00:25:02,300 --> 00:25:06,000 like I am super Qualified to have, but it definitely says 393 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,100 some things about media coverage and stuff like that. 394 00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:13,000 Yeah, they just didn't go, you know, you're in space and 395 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,800 everything's bleep, you know, or whatever. 396 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,200 Like they're I suggested that to a website, his his the writers 397 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,700 boss said, no to that too. Still. 398 00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:22,700 No. That seems so weird. 399 00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:28,400 You know who you are. I mean, yeah, but it's a whole 400 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,200 thing, but yeah, the name was not really a shitpost. 401 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,000 This game was not a ship. Post. 402 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,400 It's just a fun name for a project that is more serious 403 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,900 than that did youdid. You debate doing that at all. 404 00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:47,600 I throw in an Asterix in there. Throw like a black bar across it 405 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,300 you know like wasn't it wasn't a question at all. 406 00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:52,500 This is the gist of the game. We're doing it. 407 00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:55,300 Fuck it. Nice, nice. 408 00:25:55,300 --> 00:25:57,500 Love this stick-to-itiveness of it, you know. 409 00:25:57,500 --> 00:26:00,500 And you talked about also, you know, space whore is not, you 410 00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:04,200 know, necessarily a new thing. Like try like there's so much 411 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,400 bass whore out there and it has been for a long time. 412 00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:09,500 But, you know, one of the things we talked about here on the show 413 00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:12,100 because ostensibly, even though we've done it, like twice this 414 00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:14,700 entire year, we are a game review podcast. 415 00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:17,300 One of the things that we review is originality and one of the 416 00:26:17,308 --> 00:26:20,300 questions Senator, it isn't. When we look at originality is 417 00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:23,200 not necessarily. Is this a completely new thing? 418 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,200 It's just is Is this a thing that we've seen before but 419 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,000 that's been done in a new way which is something that we 420 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,100 talked about a lot because as you said it's almost impossible 421 00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:35,700 to have like a new thing like is this dark Western medieval 422 00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:38,100 fantasy? Is this space or is a cyberpunk, 423 00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:40,100 whatever. But is it in a different way? 424 00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:43,000 And this is one of those games where we were sitting down and 425 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,300 reading through it. We could say, yes, this is a fun 426 00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:49,400 way to do space whore, but it is different than a lot of the 427 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,000 other ones that we've actually looked at. 428 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,300 So, I guess continuing to get into your in space and 429 00:26:56,300 --> 00:26:58,400 everything's fucked out there for everybody. 430 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,100 You know, we talked about dice poles and all this. 431 00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:04,400 But like, what's, what's the pitch for this game? 432 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,300 You know? Because for those listening, we 433 00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:08,600 are going to be playing this here in just a little bit. 434 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,000 Like what is what's the, what's the full pitch? 435 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,100 Like, what do people have besides, you know, to look 436 00:27:14,100 --> 00:27:17,500 forward to? Yes, okay, excellent. 437 00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:20,800 So you're in space and everything's fucked is a game 438 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,300 for two to five players. Is this probably wear it caps 439 00:27:24,300 --> 00:27:27,200 out. It is designed first, and 440 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,400 foremost, as a two-player game, you've got the station, you've 441 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,000 got the struggler and that's player GM rolls. 442 00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:41,600 You are in space, and everything is fucked, is the pitch. 443 00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:46,000 It is a D6. Dice pool game that takes most 444 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:51,300 of its influence from video games in the genre, rather than 445 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,300 film comics. And Mature, which I think is 446 00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:59,100 what a lot of the popular stuff kind of really pulls from the 447 00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:01,800 primary inspiration. For this game is Dead Space. 448 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,000 It is my favorite video game of all time, probably amazing. 449 00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:09,200 I just finished the Remake and didn't know what to do with 450 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:15,200 myself for like three days. But dead space and System, Shock 451 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,700 are like the primary influences here. 452 00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:25,900 Then there's you know alien. there's moving from 2016 called 453 00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:30,900 the void, you know, Event Horizon is a huge inspiration 454 00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:38,200 here to and To that degree. A lot of these systems that 455 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,200 exist in, it are directly inspired by the video gaming 456 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:46,000 aspects of things. There's random monster 457 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,800 generation as if this was like a roguelike or something like 458 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,200 that. There are save points. 459 00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:54,500 So you can die over and over again, without having to worry 460 00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:57,700 about losing your character things, just continue, getting 461 00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:01,700 more and more fucked up. There are wave points, there's 462 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,700 or waypoints. There's exploration, you have 463 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,900 primary And secondary objectives. 464 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,600 You specifically have boss monsters and set pieces. 465 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:19,300 It is a love letter. A terrifying, tribute to the 466 00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:26,300 sci-fi horror video game genre and you can play it as serious 467 00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:31,100 and terrifying or as a silly goose mode as you want. 468 00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:32,600 Oh yeah we silly gooses out here. 469 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,500 Y'all we do be silly gooses. I think it's really great. 470 00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:40,200 I think. Like there's been so much time 471 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,400 of people trying to get away from video games while playing 472 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,900 tabletop game. Like this is not a video game, 473 00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:47,700 that's really cool to see game. Is it like some games? 474 00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:52,300 Now I can specifically this one like be like no like there's 475 00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:54,500 this very video game inspired and it's like that's a good 476 00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:55,700 thing. Like that's a fun thing. 477 00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:57,600 You know. Like we enjoy those experiences. 478 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,200 Like. Yeah, that's really cool. 479 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,300 I'm glad you're leaning into that. 480 00:30:01,300 --> 00:30:04,100 It makes it seem like it's going to be like a horrifying bunch of 481 00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:05,300 fun. You know? 482 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,800 It's a great time. Yeah, it's really It's 483 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,000 interesting the way that everything I mean, everything 484 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,100 always comes full circle. Like that's just how human 485 00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:15,500 beings exist. Like low rise jeans, they're not 486 00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:19,300 good, don't bring it back, but like, we're already back like 487 00:30:19,700 --> 00:30:22,800 they were, I'm glad it kind of came back and then hopefully, 488 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:23,600 whatever. I don't care. 489 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,100 I don't look at humans. Anyway, I stayed in my house and 490 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:28,500 they go to work. But regardless everything is a 491 00:30:28,508 --> 00:30:33,300 circle, right? And so video game design and 492 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,700 game design and even look into something like, for re was such 493 00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:40,100 a fun Circle. It was all butthurt about 40 494 00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:42,700 forever and then like 10 years later, I wouldn't make it all 495 00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:45,600 these games or critiquing 5e and be like, what if it had this is 496 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,400 Miss? And everyone was like, oh that's 497 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,200 just for re. So like, you know, there's this 498 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,900 discourse that tabletop games aren't video games. 499 00:30:52,300 --> 00:30:55,000 And yet video games are really fucking good. 500 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,700 And when you can, we learn many things from video games and 501 00:30:59,708 --> 00:31:02,900 board games and stuff like you can gamify them really really, 502 00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:04,800 really well. You know, just like this. 503 00:31:04,900 --> 00:31:07,500 Yeah. Oh, all games are good. 504 00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:12,000 Pause games are good. That's okay. 505 00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:16,000 Games games as a concept or good, whether that's a video 506 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:24,500 board or Dice. And I think that it's all to get 507 00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:29,900 a little pretentious all art learns from each other tabletop 508 00:31:29,900 --> 00:31:34,700 games. Art, whether it's good or not is 509 00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:39,000 for a debate. For another time but tabletop 510 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:44,200 games are art video games are art board games, are art movies, 511 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,100 music, literature, all that stuff. 512 00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:52,800 It's it's really fun and interesting to see the ways that 513 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,100 a medium can grow when things in it. 514 00:31:57,100 --> 00:32:00,500 Have conversations with things out of it. 515 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,800 Make a cross pollination. Yeah. 516 00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:10,900 Yeah, you know I'm sorry because not going space fucked. 517 00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:14,300 Isn't just like, oh, I'm emulating some video game 518 00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:17,800 trappings throughout the text in the actual final version of the 519 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,800 game, I discuss why I've done things, certain ways I go. 520 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:28,900 Hey, when you're playing this, try to do it this way because x 521 00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:36,000 y z, or if you want to do a different ABC, it's a very much 522 00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:39,900 actually discussing and dissecting the things that I'm 523 00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:46,800 doing in it and the ways that those influences are here, Yeah, 524 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,000 I mean again which is what we talked about before is really 525 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:55,000 important to communicate in a way how your intent when you 526 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,000 made the game and to put the rules the language in it. 527 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,200 So that the people not only do the players understand it, but 528 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,400 it's kind of naturally ingrained in the way that they play the 529 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,100 game. It'll just kind of fall into 530 00:33:07,100 --> 00:33:10,100 place to play in that intentional way, you know, and I 531 00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:15,000 really like gamified games, you know, I don't I love narrative 532 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,500 games to don't get me wrong. I love this specially laying in 533 00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:19,600 the things like Fiasco or ten candles were. 534 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,700 It's like, really - but I really enjoy gamey games, you know, and 535 00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:26,800 even in Solo games, you know, there's a lot of journaling 536 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,800 games which are very fun. I am just not a fantastic writer 537 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,200 and I prefer the gaming side of it. 538 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,400 So when you look at things like 12 years of marching order 539 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,600 there's more of a gamey feel to it and I really enjoy as you 540 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,200 said this is not a video game emulator at all but I really 541 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,200 like the gamey aspects that you put into it. 542 00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:48,500 It as, you know, the same points and things like that. 543 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:54,100 It, it's fun, like, it's okay to not be like a reality simulator 544 00:33:54,100 --> 00:33:57,200 if I wanted to be in reality, I would go outside when I want to 545 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,100 play a game, I want to play a game and I know you do a lot of, 546 00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:03,200 really, really fun, interesting things in this game and a lot of 547 00:34:03,208 --> 00:34:07,900 your games that are gay me because it's fun to play the 548 00:34:07,900 --> 00:34:11,600 game in that way and still have the overarching reason. 549 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,400 You want to play the game and story over top of it. 550 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,900 So it's one of the one of the things I say kind of like half 551 00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:24,900 jokingly about gun and Slinger, I was talking, I think I was 552 00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:29,400 talking with my editor on that project and she said to me the 553 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,900 she told me that I've pulled like a really great trick with 554 00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:39,199 this game because it reads on the surface, when you're 555 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,600 marketing it or when you're reading about it, it seems like 556 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,800 it's going to be like a very traditional game but Then you 557 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,400 get in there and no this is a story game actually. 558 00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:52,400 Yeah. I think that there is a balance 559 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:58,900 between those things and I think that I keep saying this but like 560 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,300 it's good when aspects of a thing or in conversation with 561 00:35:03,700 --> 00:35:07,800 with the things around them because like you were saying 562 00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:11,400 there's a lot of video game, nice stuff in this, take the 563 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,400 save points for example but they don't exist in a vacuum. 564 00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:16,700 Void. It's not just like, yeah, 565 00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:18,200 they're safe points. Whatever have fun with it. 566 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,800 It's there are save points. What does that mean for your 567 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,300 game? What does it mean? 568 00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:27,600 When you take death as a consequence out of the equation 569 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,800 for a tabletop game in this way in this genre? 570 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,400 How do you rationalize it at the table? 571 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,800 Because people like to rationalize things at the table, 572 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,000 when I was designing the game, I did not put a re I don't have a 573 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,300 reason for how or why is Points exist. 574 00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:49,900 And I never, I didn't really intend to put any text about 575 00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:53,000 that as I was designing. It talking with the editor and 576 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,300 talking with playtesters. I realized no. 577 00:35:55,300 --> 00:35:58,200 I should put something in here that encourages people to talk 578 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,000 about that themselves. Yeah, I figure out your rooms 579 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:08,900 and there's actually like a page about save points and how to use 580 00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:12,900 them at your table and how to talk about them because things 581 00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:15,400 can be very different depending on what you like that. 582 00:36:15,500 --> 00:36:17,900 Oops, the world you're playing it and it shapes the logic of 583 00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:20,800 the world's your plan yet. And we like for those things to 584 00:36:20,808 --> 00:36:23,100 be consistent when we're playing a tabletop game. 585 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,400 So it being a cloning pod that restores you from backup is 586 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,200 completely different than when you die. 587 00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:33,600 It steals your body From Another Dimension and puts your brain in 588 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,700 it. Those are very different things 589 00:36:35,900 --> 00:36:37,800 and they have different implications for the story that 590 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,800 you're going to tell. I think you said before we got 591 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,400 on that when you were playing, you have one character whose 592 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,100 whole thing was that they were like In the safe. 593 00:36:46,100 --> 00:36:48,400 That's right. So one of the playtest I did. 594 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,900 I had a very loose idea for what I wanted the play test or for 595 00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:56,200 what I wanted to say points to be because it's just fun to be 596 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,100 like, okay, when you wake up, you fall out of a vat suspended 597 00:37:00,100 --> 00:37:01,800 from the ceiling. Great. 598 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:06,000 That's fucking weird. And the player of that playtest 599 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,800 spent their session trying to learn what the fuck. 600 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,700 The deal was with that in a completely shaped the way. 601 00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:15,400 I like, that's not what I was gonna do. 602 00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:20,300 Do I was gonna throw them in a meat grinder and see what 603 00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:22,100 happens. But, we ended up playing like, 604 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:24,700 more of a mystery. I love that. 605 00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:25,800 That's amazing. Is awesome. 606 00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:28,700 The great direction for your players to like, oh no, this is 607 00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:30,500 the thing a lot pursue now. It's like fuck. 608 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:33,500 Yeah, let's do it, man. I think I think especially in 609 00:37:33,500 --> 00:37:35,800 your in space, it does that kind of thing. 610 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,400 Well because it's a completely generative game. 611 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:43,600 Yeah, I I say this all the time, it is low to no prep you. 612 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,500 In fact for our session today. I've done nothing. 613 00:37:47,300 --> 00:37:49,900 See, I don't, I don't know what we're gonna do when we play 614 00:37:49,900 --> 00:37:51,900 today. I know we're going to have fun. 615 00:37:53,100 --> 00:37:57,100 Meanwhile, my session tomorrow, I'm going to plug another stream 616 00:37:57,100 --> 00:37:59,100 my session tomorrow over on the cult. 617 00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:04,300 At +1 exp, I have the full map ready and I have to boss 618 00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:06,900 monsters for them to fight but I don't have I don't have anything 619 00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:10,500 else, I have a map, I have some characters, I don't have 620 00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:18,100 anything else so it is a game that Lends itself really well to 621 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,400 know. I want to do this because it 622 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,200 specifically tells the game Runner the station to not over 623 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,300 plan. Just Go With It. 624 00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:32,700 Talk to you players have fun. You're both playing this game. 625 00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:36,300 Yeah, go with the flow, have fun with it. 626 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,000 That's just such a fun way to play games in general is one of 627 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,200 the things that, you know, I when I wanted to get away from 628 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,100 our tried games again, games more like, They're low prep 629 00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:47,900 rolls light. That was one of the reasons. 630 00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:50,700 It's just like, sure, you know, G and prep. 631 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,300 You can make it fun if you make a game of it in and of itself. 632 00:38:54,300 --> 00:38:57,300 But there are times where I just want to feel like a player you 633 00:38:57,300 --> 00:39:01,400 know and reading through this that the style of play that 634 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,300 you've created and that a lot of games you know the ASR or 635 00:39:04,300 --> 00:39:07,800 whatever create is that you're you're a referee more than 636 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,100 anything. We're like you get to experience 637 00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:12,500 the game the same way. Other people are experiencing 638 00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:15,400 the game and you're just kind of like guiding a little bit of 639 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:20,300 Like the edge cases and stuff forward, which is such a fun way 640 00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:24,100 as a forever GM to, to play the game. 641 00:39:24,100 --> 00:39:28,500 So it's really exciting that in this kind of game that you've 642 00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:30,800 created that option is, well, not the option. 643 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,700 That is how it's fucking played like that's the game. 644 00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:34,200 So it's really, it's really fantastic. 645 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,500 So this comes out, you said Tuesday. 646 00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:38,900 So for those listening, I don't even know. 647 00:39:38,900 --> 00:39:42,700 Today, is it March 4th? It is, it is March 4th Saturday. 648 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,800 So so this comes out on Seventh and this is going to be on 649 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,100 Kickstarter. I know Donna carbonyl 650 00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:50,500 crowdfunder but this is going to be on Kickstarter specifically. 651 00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:52,400 Yes. So is there anything you can 652 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,600 tell us about the or would like to tell us about the kickstarter 653 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,900 campaign as in you know, what can people expect as far as 654 00:40:00,900 --> 00:40:03,100 potentially previews for like, reward tiers? 655 00:40:03,100 --> 00:40:05,900 Are we talking you know, perfect bounds? 656 00:40:05,900 --> 00:40:08,100 Like what, what can we expect in like three? 657 00:40:08,100 --> 00:40:11,800 Four days. Well, I'm very excited by 658 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,900 everything that we have on this Kickstarter. 659 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,800 This is the largest project that we've done. 660 00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:21,300 It is supposed to be a small project and it turns out it's a 661 00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:25,300 huge project. We have some pretty high goals 662 00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:28,400 for this and to help facilitate that we have a pretty wide range 663 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:33,700 of rewards and stretch goals. As far as rewards go, you've got 664 00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:36,400 the standards. We've got basic and physical or 665 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:41,900 digital, and physical PDF, and to perfect bound books. 666 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:47,000 Every edition of this game is printed as two books, The 667 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,800 station gets a book and the struggle or gets a book, and you 668 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:56,900 are not supposed to cross read nice to lean into that to lean 669 00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:59,200 into that horror aspect. We want the station to have 670 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,500 access to toys that they can surprise and scare the struggler 671 00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:10,000 with they are. Also we have a hardcover tear 672 00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:14,600 with a special alt foiled covered designed by Cham. 673 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,300 It is so The Ryan tear. It is gorgeous. 674 00:41:19,700 --> 00:41:25,100 We have a limited edition bundle that is the to hardcover books, 675 00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:30,000 it is an ID badge character sheet on a you're in space. 676 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:37,100 Lanyard is a metal, or it is an enamel pin, it is a set of 677 00:41:37,100 --> 00:41:42,400 limited edition skull-fucked Dice and it is a bundle of 678 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:47,000 stickers beyond that. There's Make a monster and I'll 679 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,300 run a game for you. So at make a monster, you get 680 00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:54,200 all of the limited edition stuff and you get to make a monster 681 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:59,600 that goes in the book and at the rent of rain tear, you get all 682 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,000 of that. And I will run a game for you 683 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,500 and one friend so pretty, pretty big. 684 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,400 Pretty huge. Yeah. 685 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,300 And then we have the stretch goals at our first, stretch 686 00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:18,100 goal, which is right or right around like, A thousand we are 687 00:42:18,100 --> 00:42:23,200 going to be releasing later in the year and expansion. 688 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:28,300 Zine called found Transmissions at its base level, that is going 689 00:42:28,300 --> 00:42:32,700 to have a bunch of stuff that I write. 690 00:42:34,900 --> 00:42:39,800 Mainly we are looking at there's a short story that it's going to 691 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:44,400 start with that. I'm going to be writing then 692 00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:49,600 there's new Can ex new items, new bosses new set pieces, a 693 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,100 whole new system for things that you can do with the monsters. 694 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,500 And then beyond that, we have three other stretch goals, do 695 00:42:58,500 --> 00:43:02,400 have other Riders, come on. I'm going to tell you their 696 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,900 names and the name of the thing that they are writing. 697 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:11,500 So we have Christian Sorel coming on for prepare for right 698 00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:18,300 off, we have Raina em coming. On to write mold front and we 699 00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:25,800 have nem writing escape from ICICI 68b and those are all what 700 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,400 I'm calling Mission briefings, which are Adventure and Locale 701 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,800 hybrids. So it's a little bit of setting 702 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,800 and a little bit of set dressing for like, where you are and 703 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:41,100 what's happened so far. And it's here's two monsters. 704 00:43:41,100 --> 00:43:43,300 Here are some items here, some toys for you to play with, and 705 00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:48,000 some objectives have fun. Additionally, one more thing, 706 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:53,100 forgot to mention it add-ons, if you don't want to get the full 707 00:43:53,100 --> 00:43:56,100 limited edition thing, some of the components of that are 708 00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:59,400 available as add-ons, like the stickers, the dice in the pain, 709 00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:02,300 but we are also partnering with plus 1. 710 00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:07,500 Exp, for some special hygiene products. 711 00:44:07,700 --> 00:44:10,500 We are doing a beard balm and a lip balm. 712 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:18,500 The scent is pomegranate Gore. And the beard balm comes with on 713 00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:22,500 the inside of the lid, a monster for you to use in your game. 714 00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:26,200 That's nice cross-pollination right there. 715 00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:30,100 Big fan of that. So I mean the project sounds 716 00:44:30,100 --> 00:44:33,600 what it do you mind if I ask what the base funding level is 717 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,400 for the project. Yeah the base funding goal for 718 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,900 the project is twenty eight thousand four hundred dollars. 719 00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:43,500 Okay so do it so it is a big goal is a lofty goal. 720 00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:45,200 Yeah but the game is, I mean the games. 721 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,400 Basking in the tears sound amazing. 722 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:51,600 I mean, I've backed water two or three hundred kickstarter's and 723 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,100 these are, you know, it sounds like this is exactly the kind of 724 00:44:56,100 --> 00:44:59,900 thing that I'm a huge fan of as far as kickstarter's. 725 00:44:59,900 --> 00:45:03,600 Go like having a hard cover options, having, you know, the, 726 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:08,700 the, the different bits and Bobs is so important because physical 727 00:45:08,700 --> 00:45:11,200 things especially of all of that. 728 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,900 Honestly, the thing that I think excited me the most besides 729 00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:17,200 enamel pins because I'm obsessed is Is the the ideal a nerd? 730 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,500 That's the kind of thing, right? Yeah, it's so cool to have like 731 00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:23,000 a physical part of the game. Especially roller got to. 732 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,100 Ya got to play. So super, super excited for that 733 00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:29,300 Kickstarter. Really stoked to see that come 734 00:45:29,300 --> 00:45:32,300 out in a couple of days. I mean, obviously, you know, I 735 00:45:32,300 --> 00:45:35,600 can't not get, you know, the limited tear and was an, if you, 736 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,100 if you want to get the top tier, all you have to do is start a 737 00:45:38,107 --> 00:45:40,000 podcast and to do it for a year, then maybe you can get the 738 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,600 created a come on and play for you anyway. 739 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,300 So we only got that one checked off. 740 00:45:44,300 --> 00:45:46,700 Yeah, you got it. I shouldn't have done this. 741 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,100 There we go. Super excited for that and it's 742 00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:52,700 really great with plus 1 XP. You know, I think you said that. 743 00:45:52,700 --> 00:45:57,600 Also, you're going to be doing the with the cult tomorrow on 744 00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,200 plus 1 x p. So if you're listening, make 745 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,700 sure you go check out plus 1 XP. They do a lot of great stuff for 746 00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:06,700 the community and a lot of great game previews. 747 00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:08,100 Exactly. Like we're going to be doing 748 00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:10,800 today so it's a really good time to go over there and check that 749 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,300 out. How do you, how do you feel 750 00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:16,100 about play in the Game. Now what are you? 751 00:46:16,107 --> 00:46:20,700 What are your thoughts on? I don't know really, I don't 752 00:46:20,700 --> 00:46:23,200 actually really like it that much fuck. 753 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,600 Yeah let's do it. Okay yeah so yeah. 754 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,600 So we're just gonna let you let's just fucking hop in. 755 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,900 So listen if you're listening to this episode right now, let's 756 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,900 wear. So if you just go to Kickstarter 757 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,700 and just Google you're in space and everything's fucked and it's 758 00:46:37,700 --> 00:46:39,000 going to be like the first Kickstarter link. 759 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,600 That's popped up. It'll be. 760 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,700 It is in our chat here, which if you're on YouTube, you can't 761 00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:45,200 see. And if you're in podcast player, 762 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,900 You definitely cannot see, but you want to check that out. 763 00:46:47,900 --> 00:46:57,400 Again, it starts on Tuesday, the the seventh and if you're the 764 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:02,300 quick URL for it is B Da trip. / space fucked B YT. 765 00:47:02,300 --> 00:47:07,000 S dot RI P / space fact, they even even easier. 766 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,000 So you definitely want to check that out. 767 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,800 So if you are watching or listening click the next episode 768 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,500 because Navin is going to be Back. 769 00:47:15,500 --> 00:47:18,600 We're going to be back in just a moment and we are going to play 770 00:47:18,900 --> 00:47:20,400 your in space and everything's fucked. 771 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,200 We are the weekly scroll podcast. 772 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,400 You can find us at all the socials that are linked under 773 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,700 everything that we always do. So, stick around, we'll be right 774 00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:28,200 back.