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Hello and welcome to the Weekly 
Scroll podcast. 

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My Name Is Ryan. 
My name is Michael. 

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And my name is Galen. 
And yeah, these are two our 

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special guests with us today, 
Michael Elliott and Galen 

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Peugeot. 
Yes. 

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Yeah, today talking with us 
about their upcoming Zen Quest 

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project that is gonna be Fealty.
Before we get to fealty though, 

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Michael Galen's Who? 
Who the heck are you guys? 

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Why? 
Why should people know who you 

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are? 
Especially considering like the 

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stack of games I have by one or 
both of you here next to me. 

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Let's just start with Michael. 
So Michael like what would 

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people know you from for past 
things that you have created? 

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Yeah, I'm Michael Elliott. 
I'm a writer and game designer. 

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I have made single player games 
and games with strong anti 

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capitalist themes. 
So you might know me from a 

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Torch in the dark or neon black 
or the fall of House Prosh. 

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Nasty, brutish and long. 
I'm really just trying to name 

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things that Ryan might have on 
hand right now. 

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And merger. 
Yeah, Merger Weekly scrolls on 

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the first people that like Rated
Merger had it on the stream and 

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that was really cool. 
Yeah, Merger was great. 

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Merger was actually. 
My opinions on Blades of the 

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Dark are well known, but Merger 
was just a great game and 

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honestly one of the early Forged
in the Dark games that I picked 

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up in Red and then realized this
is fours in the Dark, but you 

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know, taken to a a a different 
kind of direction. 

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It was super fun. 
I think that was one of our 

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earlier reviews too. 
It was really super fun game. 

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I really, really, I mean that's 
the one that was like I need to 

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follow this person for the rest 
of the stuff that they write. 

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So that was a great one. 
Nice. 

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Thank you. 
Fun fact, Merger is the only 

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game that my mom has played that
I've made. 

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So I don't even know if my mom 
knows I have a podcast. 

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So. 
Yeah, I. 

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Know. 
Galen same question like what? 

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What? 
What would people know you from?

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Like what should they have in 
their collections from Galen 

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Peugeot? 
You might have something for me 

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already because I've jobbed it 
as an illustrator on a lot of 

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indie games, character sheets 
for things as big as a * Forged 

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and as little as well the free 
stuff I give away on my site. 

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But let's see. 
Deadbelt Illustrated Stone 

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Burner, a game of Space Dwarves 
and Space Mines, fairly 

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recently. 
Oh excellent. 

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I don't even have a copy of that
yet. 

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I'm jealous and gosh, I can't 
enlist it. 

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So rather than that, more than 
the Dawn design end, I like to 

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make games about communities 
primarily and anything that lets

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me draw robots that haven't been
drawn before. 

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So the in things that I've done,
you've got I believe a copy of 

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The facility, my most recent 
project. 

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If. 
I can find it. 

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I it's somewhere in the in the 
plethora. 

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But I can't. 
I can't quite get my hands on 

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it. 
It's perfect that it would be 

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lost, though, because it's a 
game of amnesiac scientists 

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trying to escape an insane 
mechanical labyrinth. 

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Yes, that one. 
And also Crash Cart, a game of 

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near future Cyberpunk 
paramedics, which I'm hoping to 

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get revisit sometime this year 
once we've gotten through filty.

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Is one of my absolute favorite 
towards the dark things. 

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It's awesome. 
Yeah, we met Kind of a peeking 

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out about each other's projects 
mutually, because Torch in the 

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Dark really spoke to me on a 
really fundamental level. 

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I didn't think anybody could do 
Solo Forge in the Dark, but 

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Michael nailed it. 
Thank you. 

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Both of you seem to have a lot 
of Forged in the Dark stuff, I 

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guess. 
What what draws you both to? 

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To that mechanic, I guess, Or 
that that system subsystem. 

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For me it was, I don't know, 
Blaze the Dark was the game that

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kind of brought me back into 
RPGs in a way, 'cause like I got

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started with like 4th edition 
D&D campaign years ago and that 

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lasted like seven years. 
And I had to take a break after 

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that and be like I need to not 
be in a fantasy world for a 

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minute. 
And but eventually like played 

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in some 5th edition games, ran a
couple games, but then started 

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to branch out into like indie 
stuff like like Fiasco and like 

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the Quiet Year and stuff like 
that. 

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And I saw Blades and played 
through it and it was like, wow,

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this is everything I wanted in 
role-playing games and didn't 

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know you could do like 
characters that not only like 

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advanced levels, but advanced 
and like complications and like 

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personality changes and quirks 
and like this living breathing 

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world that reacts to the 
characters and really 

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interesting fiction first 
mechanics. 

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And also you can just make your 
own version if you want. 

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The SRD was free online, so 
yeah, that coupled with like 

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having like a really weird 
creative block at that time of 

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life with creative writing, I 
want to make things but I could 

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not face writing stories. 
So making games is like a happy 

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little medium spot. 
So yeah, I've just, I've fell in

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love with it and it's just kind 
of my go to thing when I want to

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think of game design and making 
games. 

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Like it's such a great template,
so. 

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It's weird. 
We never talked about it, but it

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was very much the same sort of 
thing, but on the art end that 

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back when Blades was getting run
up for its Kickstarter, I had a 

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newborn and had a lot of 
sleepless late nights on. 

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Just hanging around like holding
a baby and being on G+ and 

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reading about RPGs, which I had 
also taken a long break from. 

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And just the way that John 
Harper was synthesizing game 

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mechanics and just and the 
fiction of his world and the 

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integration of that with his 
system of layout. 

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And the whole thing was just 
like a a light opened up in the 

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way it could be done and how 
games could be made. 

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And it was, I started doing fan 
art on G+, and that's what 

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brought me back into 
illustrating, or really started 

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me illustrating, because I 
hadn't really done anything 

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artistic in almost a decade at 
that point. 

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And it was just so much fun and 
everybody in those communities 

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was just so nice that it just 
kind of slowly dragged me in. 

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And now here I am doing it and 
making a living on it. 

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You all are just the the best 
indie gamers out there. 

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I love you all. 
I would have to make something 

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to be included in that. 
I just critique them so I'll 

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I'll I'll take that but but so 
you said you guys had when those

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strings started you said you 
guys have never so you worked on

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this you've known each other for
quite a while at this point but 

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I've never actually met in 
person or or or even had a 

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conversation what how did you 
work is law I guess know each 

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other as long and not like sit 
down and do that just life gets 

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in the way or or and and then to
kind of merge that into another 

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question what was impetus to 
finally get together to work on 

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this project that we're going to
be talking about in just a. 

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Moment. 
So yeah, well, like, like we 

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said before, like, we've been 
kind of fans of each other's 

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work for a while. 
I've been kind of, like, 

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checking with each other. 
Like, I feel like it was like at

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least a couple times a year, one
of us to be like, hey, I have 

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this like, cool idea, Is this 
cool? 

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And then we're just like, yeah, 
that's awesome. 

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It's like, cool. 
Do you want to like, should we 

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do something with it and then be
like, yeah, don't really have 

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the time, don't have other 
thing. 

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And like we've done like work 
exchanges before. 

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Like I did a client for Crash 
Cart and Gannon did a cover for 

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a game which I still haven't 
released. 

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But it's we've done a lot of 
stuff like that, like training 

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ideas, like kind of like hyping 
each other up and like flirted a

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lot with the idea of doing 
something together eventually. 

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And then one day, Galen Mester, 
he's like, hey, have you ever 

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read Wolf Hall? 
I was like, no, I I haven't 

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explained. 
It's like this, this fictional 

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telling of like, the court of 
King Henry the Eighth and Thomas

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Cromwell and how he rose from 
like, basically being a poor, 

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like, blacksmith's boy in the 
streets of London to basically 

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running England and like, there 
might be a game in there. 

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I was like, OK, sure. 
So I read it and I was like, 

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yeah, let's, let's fucking do 
it. 

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So that was just kind of like 
right place, right time. 

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Zion Quest was right around the 
corner, so. 

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It is. 
It's very game brained to read 

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such a magnificent novel and I 
hope appreciate it. 

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But also the same time thing. 
Wait a SEC, that guy's a 

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protagonist? 
That's APC. 

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See where this mechanic can 
immediately spring out. 

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And so I had a lot of very, very
abstract, scatterbrained ideas 

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about chess pieces and tokens 
and not much in the way of 

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mechanics. 
I am. 

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I'm OK at mechanics at best. 
I much prefer to be thinking 

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about the world's and the people
inside of them. 

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And I knew that Michael was 
absolutely the one for that, 

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because every one of those games
that we listed earlier have just

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got a very clean throughput of 
mechanics to them. 

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They're a lot of fun to play. 
So yeah, it seemed to be the 

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right idea at the right time. 
Yeah, and it it sounds great. 

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So what's So what is, what is 
fealty then what's what's the 

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pitch like? 
I know we we just said about the

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the Cromwell novel and whatnot, 
but like what? 

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What game is that now becoming? 
It is. 

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Oh, go ahead. 
No, no, you you go first. 

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I've been going first all the 
time. 

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All. 
Right. 

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Fair. 
I've never actually done one of 

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these interviews before, so I'm 
trying to let Michael show me. 

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Show me the way. 
Oh, I usually prefer to let the 

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art just exist than to talk 
about it. 

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But the game is everybody who's 
playing is primarily a somebody 

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else, not of noble birth, who 
has been elevated to a Royal 

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Court through their skills, 
their charms, their 

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accomplishments. 
And they are various forms of 

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kind of Thomas Cromwell's or 
other Renaissance and tutor 

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archetypes, kind of 
Shakespearean characters. 

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The monarch is represented by a 
deck of cards, and it's just an 

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all too human and fallible 
individual presenting all sorts 

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of whims and problems to the 
court. 

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And so the players are stuck in 
this unfortunate rock and a hard

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play situation between a king or
queen making unreasonable 

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demands and being just an 
absolute selfish piece of work. 

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And then the needs of the entire
Kingdom below them that they 

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have to run. 
Which they have a foot in both 

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of those worlds. 
And so it just seemed like there

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was a lot of dramatic juice to 
be gained from that. 

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That's who you are in that game.
Does that sound right with you? 

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Yeah, basically it is is 
fundamentally based on the 

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belonging outside blogging 
system by Avery Alder. 

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So from like dream apart dream a
Skew Galactic 2E which is like a

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great Star Wars take on it. 
And yeah, it's just about, it is

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very much like fiction first 
about inhabiting these 

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characters and like kind of 
world building as you go. 

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And like I said, that kind of 
being stuck with this monarch 

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who has different whims on any 
given day that might run counter

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to what the the country needs, 
what the courtiers can even do. 

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There could be questions like 
succession or like weird magical

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weapons of mass destruction or 
you know, the monarch gets hyper

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focused on the fact that like 
they went through a tour through

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the capital, there was much of 
poor people and can all just do 

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something about that, please, 
you know, Meanwhile, you all 

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know that like everyone's 
starving, there's an army 

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marching on the nation and you 
know, stuff like that. 

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So it's very much like trying to
imagine what it's like to be 

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these people in this possible 
situation. 

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And like Keely like because is 
very much influenced by Wolf 

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Hall. 
Like all these people are not 

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noble born. 
These are all like commoners who

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have been elevated because their
achievements or because of where

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they happened to be at the time.
And so they're trying to 

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navigate the space and we're 
trying to like drive the 

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mechanics and the set pieces to 
like really highlight the like 

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the high drama, almost like 
Shakespearean aspects of that, 

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of just being like, yeah, in 
this impossible place, trying to

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manage your own life, trying to 
manage your whole country. 

225
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,720
And just following the themes 
and the stories that cries from 

226
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:30,640
that, basically. 
And also saying fuck you to the 

227
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,520
monarchy, basically. 
It's a very important part, I 

228
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,440
think. 
Yeah, the whole time I couldn't 

229
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,440
help but think, why don't they 
just grab Henry and stick him in

230
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:44,400
a sack and throw it in the 10s? 
It was unimaginable in that 

231
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:45,920
time. 
Not it would like in the same 

232
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,520
the way that we get caught into 
our own systems and are 

233
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,800
completely blinded by the 
boundaries that we set within 

234
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:53,800
ourselves. 
That was very clearly part of 

235
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,600
what Cromwell was experiencing 
in that book. 

236
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,360
And you, we wanted to kind of 
present why that would be, how 

237
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,640
that would be, how you could 
feel that experience of being in

238
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:05,240
that tiny little community and 
bound by these sort of invisible

239
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,000
laws. 
Yeah. 

240
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:13,240
So I haven't read Wolf Hall, but
like that that kind of piece and

241
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,000
fiction I assume often based on 
Cromwell of like this king who's

242
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,800
just kind of fucking around or 
doing whatever or like this and 

243
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,600
then the people that are 
actually running things you're 

244
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,040
like yet that is such a gameable
like moment. 

245
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,640
I guess it is really interesting
that I haven't even heard of a a

246
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,040
game that would do something 
like that or be in that context 

247
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,680
of this backdrop of like you 
said this multifaceted, like you

248
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:38,800
have to do what the king is 
saying. 

249
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,200
You have software on the country
but if you know bringing a 

250
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:45,800
personal life into it too, 
that's such a a heavy spot to be

251
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,960
in and like you said, complete, 
super gameable. 

252
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,840
And I love the on the field T 
banner. 

253
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,600
You have like the pawns all in a
circle and then it's making a 

254
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,360
crown with a shadow. 
That's such a good imagery of, 

255
00:14:58,360 --> 00:14:59,640
like, everything that you're 
talking about. 

256
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,480
Good. 
It's so good, but soon as I show

257
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,280
that to you, it's like, what the
art what? 

258
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,600
Not the, It turns out I'm not 
the first person to have thought

259
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,080
of it, but it's a really it's 
it's so well for what we're 

260
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,120
aiming for that I had to delay 
with it. 

261
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,400
So there you may find it out 
that you search for that. 

262
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,000
You can find other people that 
have done so many things with 

263
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,160
chess pieces, but that's why 
they make such good tokens for 

264
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,240
this. 
They're inherently I love making

265
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,200
games that can use stuff you 
have around the house already 

266
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,680
that aren't just polyhedrals, 
that is. 

267
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,520
Speaking of tokens, so there are
tokens in this game. 

268
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:34,960
I know you just said there are 
chess pieces. 

269
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,040
So if if people are playing the 
game, like what? 

270
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,040
What do the tokens have to do 
with the game or how are they 

271
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:43,480
used in the context of playing 
the game? 

272
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,480
I know you had mentioned the 
deck of cards as well. 

273
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,400
Yeah. 
So the tokens are kind of like 

274
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,000
the currency of like your your 
move set. 

275
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,720
So like when you're trying to 
like influence things are court,

276
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,560
or like have your way, or like 
put your mark on the fiction in 

277
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,720
some way, usually spending a 
token and those represented by 

278
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,880
the pawns. 
Or you're gaining tokens when 

279
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,840
you make like a back foot move, 
which is like being kind of 

280
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,640
annoying. 
Or like distancing yourself from

281
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,040
the Monarch, stuff like that. 
And then each player also has 

282
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,520
two of the other pieces, like 
the Brooks or whatever. 

283
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,440
One of it represents their place
at courts, and specifically how 

284
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,600
close they are to the throne. 
So there'll be like a court 

285
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,400
sheet that'll keep track of like
how many resources there are in 

286
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:36,280
the Kingdom and also how like 
how much in favor you are with 

287
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,960
the monarch. 
And so the closer your piece is 

288
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,320
to the throne, you'll get like 
bonuses, like you'll get more 

289
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,400
tokens each round or. 
And you will also be kind of 

290
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:53,360
expected to attend to the 
monarch's random whims with like

291
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,440
plans of action. 
And then also so because there's

292
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:03,120
two of every like piece and the 
chess set have like the two 

293
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,920
castles, 2 rooks, 2 bishops. 
I'm trying to remember chess 

294
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,760
pieces now and for some reason I
can't. 

295
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,119
The other one is this token you 
start with that specifically 

296
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,640
represents like your favor, 
which could like literally be 

297
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,440
like like a seal or like a 
promise or a vow. 

298
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,440
And you spend those as tokens. 
But they also kind of like 

299
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,680
because they are unique, you can
kind of track them as they move 

300
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,000
between player and player and 
like they can kind of represent 

301
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,200
like favors you've called in and
stuff like that. 

302
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,120
And yeah, that's basically what 
the tokens are. 

303
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:43,320
You can use other stuff like I 
think chess set was a great shut

304
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,600
out by Galen because like one of
the reasons I like the blades of

305
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,320
dark and forge of dark system is
because Rhyzon D6 is pretty much

306
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,520
everyone has six sided dice, but
also pretty much everyone has a 

307
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,960
chess set right? 
Like you might not have used it 

308
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,240
in a while and if you don't 
they're really cheap to get. 

309
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,840
And even if you can't get those 
things, like you can use poker 

310
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,040
chips, you can use dice, you can
use other things. 

311
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:09,480
But like, it also does put you 
in the mind of like strategy and

312
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,880
like trying to think, you know, 
Sarah moves ahead and like, you 

313
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,560
know, the great game and stuff 
like that, yeah. 

314
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,360
It's the same with the playing 
cards as somebody who's been 

315
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,200
quite fixated on them, the art 
on your current like your 

316
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,960
bicycle deck of cards, what we 
think of as the standard deck. 

317
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,000
Those portraits really 
solidified right around the time

318
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,680
period we're talking about, and 
it's just weird. 

319
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,120
It's another relic that's been 
kind of caught with us and 

320
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:36,920
carried on down through the 
years since then. 

321
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:40,520
Yeah. 
I mean, and if you're going to 

322
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,920
do a game about court, there's 
really aren't there, there are 

323
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,320
really aren't two better things 
to have than a chess piece, 

324
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:51,400
which is literally like the 
members of like court and 

325
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,800
royalty and everything and then 
like you said like a deck of 

326
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,320
cards where the faces are 
literally royalty. 

327
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:01,400
So I can imagine that not only 
the what the pieces themselves 

328
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,440
do like you said Michael, about 
like like moving like keeping 

329
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,400
getting your head in a strategic
standpoint, but also just the 

330
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,520
fact that there is that kind of 
like artistic bend to it as 

331
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,200
well. 
It's a multifaceted have those 

332
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,760
specific tokens into a game 
about this. 

333
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,680
So those are I'm I'm excited to 
to see how it feels to have 

334
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:24,640
those on the board as well as 
the game and then the 

335
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,160
illustrations cuz so next to me 
there's running this this thing 

336
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,680
that's got you know the the art 
and what going through. 

337
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,400
So talk to me about those and 
also these gilded pages. 

338
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:37,760
That's. 
Good. 

339
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,640
They're so fucking good. 
It is cutting out pretty well. 

340
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,720
We're I've been wanting to do a 
big art book for a long time, 

341
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,920
and coming off the last two 
games I did were very black and 

342
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,240
white and very gloomy and heavy.
If you've opened to the 

343
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,840
facility, it's it's dark. 
And so it's just so nice to just

344
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,680
roll out something that just has
all the colors of the rainbow. 

345
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,760
And to just spend a few hours in
the evening digging around 

346
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,120
museum gallery sites and looking
at all those great Goya 

347
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,720
paintings from those from the 
courtrooms, from Hans Holbein 

348
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,280
who did painted in the Henry 
era. 

349
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,480
And all the books of hours and 
books of days that the Royals 

350
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,400
would have in those days. 
Kind of the the tail end of the 

351
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,080
illuminated manuscript era. 
So we really wanted to make 

352
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,560
something that had a bit of that
sort of storybook vibe. 

353
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:28,800
A little bit of that, like 
actual artifact from the the 

354
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,320
period and a little bit like 
just a like a glossy pamphlet 

355
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,960
from the museum exhibition. 
So every art piece is the Royal 

356
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,920
Court painting of that character
and every page is going to be a 

357
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,360
slightly unique in some way or 
another presentation of that 

358
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,920
vines and flowers curlicue that 
may have gone by by this point. 

359
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,200
And hopefully as many pieces, 
pages as possible have a weird 

360
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,680
medieval guy because I've been 
wanting to draw those guys 

361
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,800
forever. 
And so if you have any good 

362
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,120
weird medieval guys you'd like 
to recommend right now, Ryan, 

363
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,320
I'm I'm all ears. 
I can. 

364
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,000
We can put one in. 
I I wish. 

365
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,040
You know there's a there's a 
Twitter that I follow somewhere 

366
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,960
and all they do is post medieval
monsters and it's a fantastic 

367
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,400
fantastic to follow. 
It might even be medieval 

368
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:15,560
monsters but it's something like
that. 

369
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:21,960
But they they find all the weird
things in there, like the devils

370
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,640
poking people in the butt holes 
and stuff, just the what kept 

371
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,320
people occupied against back in 
the time. 

372
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,200
But yeah, excited. 
They look absolutely stunning, 

373
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,040
the piece that I've seen and 
yeah, they're all rolling 

374
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,960
through here with the split and 
one is a full page illustration 

375
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,280
and then the other side has a 
gilding. 

376
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,440
It looks absolutely stunning. 
The game looks gorgeous. 

377
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,680
Yeah, I was putting together 
some preview layouts, like last 

378
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,200
night, actually. 
And like, it wasn't until I was 

379
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,360
doing that and putting the test 
is like, holy shit, this game's 

380
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:58,240
going to look amazing. 
Damn. 

381
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,680
So there's. 
Not a lot of room for my words, 

382
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:03,840
so I'm going to start cutting 
stuff. 

383
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,400
More. 
Pages talking about maybe 

384
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,360
winding up the box I I I should.
No, no more pages. 

385
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:12,400
This is the problem, right? 
You don't understand. 

386
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,680
This has been a constant back 
and forth between me and Galen 

387
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,200
throughout the entire projects. 
Being like, Gail's like, hey, 

388
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:19,680
give it, make it like a big 
book. 

389
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,520
It could be like 70 pages like 
Galen. 

390
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,480
No has to be a Zine. 
Has to be like 48 pages. 

391
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,320
We can do this. 
Hey, listen, technically Z Max 

392
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:34,600
is what, Like 73? 
I'm just saying it'll be a weird

393
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,040
fat thing that sits falling on 
your shelves pushing all the 

394
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,720
other scenes away from it, but 
it technically can be stapled 

395
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,240
together. 
One of the other aspects of the 

396
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,560
game is playbooks. 
Talk to me about those are those

397
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,880
like I know blades and etcetera 
etcetera is of the PBJ 

398
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,600
genealogy. 
Is it like that or how? 

399
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,080
How do they come into to play as
far as the the game goes? 

400
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,600
Yeah. 
So I think there's five or six 

401
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,960
at the moment, and they are like
the people you expect to be at 

402
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,120
the courts of the monarchs. 
They have like the ink pot, 

403
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:13,880
which could be like a lawyer or 
like like a scribe or like maybe

404
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,720
even a poet. 
You got the fool, some sort of 

405
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,920
like doctor slash, occultist 
person. 

406
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,560
And basically each one describes
like the various the positions 

407
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,600
you would hold and like a suite 
of moves and relationships and 

408
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,720
contexts you can use to define 
the world. 

409
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,200
Sort of try to do like very 
light on world building where we

410
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,520
imply that there is a big like 
fantasy world out there. 

411
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,040
But it's mostly up to the 
players to describe like what 

412
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,280
they want to highlight or like 
if you even just want to like 

413
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,960
put in your own fantasy world 
you already have, you can pretty

414
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,480
much sub in whatever you want. 
But yeah, there is like 

415
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,080
different nations. 
And like magic is kind of like a

416
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,560
recent thing. 
Hence it like there was a 

417
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,320
cataclysm in the past and magic 
suddenly appeared and like, all 

418
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,160
sorts of shit happened because 
of that. 

419
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,280
And so you'll have like 
possessions you can mark and 

420
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,080
relationships that can't define 
your character's signature looks

421
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,600
that couldn't like just be a guy
or like someone that has antlers

422
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,680
and a bunch of fur or maybe 
you're a bird. 

423
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,680
And yeah, a lot of the moves 
are, like I said before, like 

424
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,840
ways you gain and spend tokens, 
trade tokens between players 

425
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,000
that usually have to do with 
your area of expertise. 

426
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:40,200
Like the inkpot is mostly about 
like laws and stories and like 

427
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,560
keeping track of debts and stuff
like that. 

428
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,000
And also everyone has a sort of 
revolutionary move, which is 

429
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,640
kind of like possible end game 
possible. 

430
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,840
Hey, we've had enough of this 
damn monarch because like I 

431
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,800
wouldn't get the first pitch 
this I was looking through the 

432
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,800
notes. 
I was basically kind of the 

433
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,440
opinions, like at some point 
you're going to get sick of 

434
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,160
these motherfuckers, right? 
Like at some point you're going 

435
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,480
to be like, OK, enough is 
enough, We have to do something 

436
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,240
about this, this. 
Is something that has historical

437
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,960
precedents, yes, Speaking of 
Cromwells. 

438
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,120
And so yeah, I literally had 
like a little bit in my notes to

439
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,560
be like what to do when you're 
sick of the monarch. 

440
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:24,200
And so that's translated is like
a revolutionary move. 

441
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,680
So the in pod can like if you 
can match like hoard a bunch of 

442
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,320
tokens and resources you can 
spend them all at once and they 

443
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,600
say OK, I am rewriting the laws 
of Kiir. 

444
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,720
This like fantasy nation where 
it takes place in asks what's 

445
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,040
your questions like OK, who who 
is left out? 

446
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,800
Who does this benefit? 
Who suffers. 

447
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,000
And like the majority of moves 
it's only about like spending or

448
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,440
gaining a single token at a 
time. 

449
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,160
Revolution moves like 10 tokens,
which means like you have to 

450
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,000
take significantly not only from
the other court years or court, 

451
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,960
but like from the nation itself.
Like you are draining into 

452
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,760
resources to do this thing. 
So that works as a possible, 

453
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,520
like, end state for the game. 
Or like, maybe that's the end of

454
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,360
your first season and you'd like
see what happens afterwards. 

455
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:11,040
But it the game needed away. 
I think like a release valve to 

456
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,320
basically being like, hey, we're
we're done. 

457
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,600
Like it's time for the 
guillotine. 

458
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,880
It's time for whatever the hell,
like we need to make major 

459
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,240
reforms so like the nation can 
still survive and people can 

460
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,440
still survive. 
So really excited about that. 

461
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,040
Yeah, exactly. 
Just like real life. 

462
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,480
And it will come with a cost, 
much like in real life. 

463
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,520
So there will probably be 
players who will find themselves

464
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,000
in that uncomfortable position 
of, well, maybe we should just 

465
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,720
put somebody else on the throne.
It's like we've created all 

466
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,480
these fictional people and we're
endeared to them. 

467
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,880
Now. 
It'd be a shame to see the 

468
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,320
streets run with blood. 
I can tell that if Michael and I

469
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,360
were playing, we would probably 
be bouncing off each other a bit

470
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,160
already on that too, that is, 
I'm definitely down to throw 

471
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,600
overthrow the monarchy. 
But you say you want a 

472
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,320
revolution. 
Yeah, I think I'd, I'd lean 

473
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,360
towards Michael's camp. 
I think we did BTV One there. 

474
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,120
My pacificism isn't Bring me 
back. 

475
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:09,560
My apologies. 
Fellas, one thing you said 

476
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:14,480
during during that is this 
magical cataclysm, right? 

477
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:23,600
So what made you want to put 
like magic and more fantasy kind

478
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,960
of aspect into a game that feels
like a lot more political 

479
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,120
intrigue and more like that? 
Was there just like another 

480
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:33,560
element to like the character 
creation or does magic like come

481
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,440
in a a lot into the gameplay 
itself and you wanted to pull 

482
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,600
that in? 
What was the impetus for for 

483
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:43,320
bringing that in? 
For me, it was like the first 

484
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,000
bits of our Galen we're sharing 
was very much of like 

485
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,400
fantastical people. 
So it was like, you know, 

486
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,080
humans, as we understand it was 
also like a bird that had a 

487
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,160
great hat. 
And like, like the art for the 

488
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,880
champion is like a horse guy who
like is doing his best. 

489
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,920
I love him dearly. 
And so it's kind of like just 

490
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,920
assumes that like it would be 
like, it is like kind of like 15

491
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,040
hundreds England. 
But there's magic. 

492
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,760
So you can like be a bit more 
fanciful. 

493
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,880
I also feel like that gives a 
little bit of a remove from 

494
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,680
history so that people can feel 
like they can play around a lot 

495
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,160
more. 
And also I think this is one of 

496
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,480
the reasons I like cyberpunk so 
much is because lava is like if 

497
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,080
the level of technology rises to
that extent, suddenly the poor 

498
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,160
and the rich are on a little bit
of more of an even playing field

499
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,680
and a fantasy. 
I think that's also true, like 

500
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,360
if magic is suddenly in the mix 
then people don't have to put up

501
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,280
with the nobles bullshit 
anymore, right? 

502
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,000
Because of that it depends on 
your magical system. 

503
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:50,680
But like if the level of power 
is like even that way it can 

504
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,640
like let people like our 
courtiers have a lot more leeway

505
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,200
and like managing things. 
And also is like fun to like 

506
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,120
hint that like hey, there used 
to be like a huge empire and 

507
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,520
this emperor and the cataclysm 
happened and that shattered and 

508
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,800
now there's a Republic nearby 
that doesn't have a monarchy or 

509
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,160
like a a much different 
hierarchical power structure. 

510
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,520
And that's starting to like 
influence how things might 

511
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,360
happen in Kia. 
Like might have friends or from 

512
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,760
the Gantz Republic and like 
they're talking about like you 

513
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,640
know elections and shit like 
that. 

514
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,840
That again puts more pressure on
this hierarchical monarchy which

515
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,880
depending on like how you play 
fealty might be the only 

516
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,720
monarchy in the world left after
the cataclysm, right. 

517
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,840
So it kind of like gives players
a bit more freedom. 

518
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,640
That's also just like, I'm sure,
again, like it's fun to draw 

519
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,840
horse guys and birds with 
awesome hats, right? 

520
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:43,640
Well, that's part. 
Well, that's certainly part of 

521
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,200
it. 
I won't lie, I do love to put a 

522
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,400
hat on a bird. 
There's it's just one of the 

523
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,160
rarest joys of being an 
illustrator. 

524
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,280
But it also there's a thing that
happened when I was making that 

525
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,760
crash cart and was testing it 
out with people is that most 

526
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,840
people did not know enough about
being a doctor to really feel 

527
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,280
like they had a lot to say. 
And it caused a lot of players 

528
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,120
to clam up if they because most 
of us have not worked as EMT's. 

529
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,200
I haven't worked as an EMT, so 
reading a lot of medical 

530
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,640
journals doesn't make you get 
you there and it doesn't put you

531
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,240
in the shoes of that thing. 
But when you can glue some 

532
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,720
cyberpunk around it, that gives 
a lot of people the license to 

533
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,360
draw from the materials that 
they know. 

534
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,720
And you can kind of speak to 
them in the nerd world that they

535
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,280
live in. 
And I'm hoping by including the 

536
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,240
more fantastical elements in 
addition to everything that 

537
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,280
Michael just said and giving 
everybody freedom to play around

538
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,480
in their own earth, their own 
world, we by throwing in Wizards

539
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,480
and talking animals, you're 
communicating with the players. 

540
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,040
This is, this is something you 
can put your hooks into. 

541
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,760
If you for example, have not 
read Wolf Hall or have not spent

542
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,920
a lot of time in Renaissance 
studying Renaissance politics, I

543
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,840
don't know that anybody needs to
go read Machiavelli before they 

544
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,280
play. 
This wouldn't hurt. 

545
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,080
But I don't think it's it should
we should let it gives them a 

546
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,320
fantasy world that is familiar 
enough that they can grab onto 

547
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,240
that part. 
OK. 

548
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,200
It makes sense. 
I mean especially the part that 

549
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,800
you said about setting it aside 
from history a little bit 

550
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,880
because I think there could be 
some people that are a little 

551
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:17,120
bit tentative to really play in 
in specific specific historical 

552
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,280
things as opposed to a little 
bit of a generalize. 

553
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:25,840
So it's it's nice to shift it 
into more of a story place than 

554
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:33,360
than a historical place. 
Yeah, the mechanics all just 

555
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,680
internal. 
This is one of the other things 

556
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,240
I really like about Michael, 
your work and obviously Galen 

557
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,000
your your your work as well. 
But it's the, I know you 

558
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,720
specifically said Michael about 
the mechanics is that the clean 

559
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,520
through lines of everything like
especially when I first read 

560
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,480
Merger it was just that's one of
the things that it just feels 

561
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,320
very clean like all the 
mechanics really speak to 

562
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,120
itself. 
All the mechanics reinforce so 

563
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:01,000
many aspects of play. 
So it's just a really, it's a 

564
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:06,320
really nice thing that you have 
in your kind of repertoire of of

565
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:13,240
of mechanical knowledge, just 
this consistent clean elegance 

566
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,840
to to game design. 
And I don't know some of that 

567
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,480
comes from, I mean, I so here's 
the thing, Blades is not my 

568
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,720
favorite game. 
I think that's a nice thing I'll

569
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,880
say about it and but I love 
Forged in the Dark games. 

570
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,360
I absolutely love them like I 
was I've, I love Forged in the 

571
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,600
Dark stuff and then I read 
Blades and was like how did this

572
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:39,840
have this? 
But it is the the core dice 

573
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,400
mechanic is one of the things I 
really do love about it. 

574
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,320
So do you think there's anything
that you, I know you said Blades

575
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,400
kind of pulled you back in. 
Do you think there's anything 

576
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,320
about, like the elegance of the 
blade system that you feel you 

577
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,000
incorporated into your overall 
game design concepts? 

578
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,400
Or is it just like an attention 
to detail that keeps everything 

579
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,880
kind of like simple but not a 
bad way? 

580
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:09,640
You know, like clean and alien? 
Yeah, I think, I think Blaze the

581
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,360
Dark and Forge the Dark games in
general. 

582
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,560
I think it shows us with Powered
by the Apocalypse games as well 

583
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:19,280
as it's, they're all fantastic 
genre emulators, right? 

584
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,640
So you can look at any of the 
influences in Blaze the Dark, 

585
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,560
like Peaky Blinders and The Wire
and stuff like that and like 

586
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,160
almost see the mechanics on 
screen, right? 

587
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,400
It's like, OK, that was clearly 
a mixed success. 

588
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,800
That was clearly an 
entanglement. 

589
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,640
You know, this is downtime. 
I hear that really helps when 

590
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,640
you're translating that to other
genres because I mean, the way I

591
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,600
tend to design games, I just, I 
watch a bunch of stuff that is 

592
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,240
the thing I'm trying to emulate,
right? 

593
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,800
So for merger, I watched Michael
Clayton, which is one of my 

594
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,560
favorite movies. 
And like there was another one 

595
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,280
that was about the 2008 
financial crisis that had a 

596
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,120
weird title margin call was that
And like documentaries about it 

597
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,840
and stuff like that and like 
trying to like keep track of 

598
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,400
those moments that keep 
happening and try to figure out 

599
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,159
a way I can slot that into the 
game so that when you're playing

600
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:21,520
it you are going to make those 
same kind of moments happen. 

601
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:29,040
And in fealty it's, I don't know
we're playing with a very 

602
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,760
different system it's they're 
blowing outside blowing system. 

603
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,440
But like, in the moves and 
stuff, and there's also a 

604
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,360
mechanic we have right now 
called the contested draw, which

605
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,800
is basically if there's any, 
like people ever do something 

606
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,520
like really risky or like is up 
to fate. 

607
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,040
Like you're trying to like 
assassinate somebody or like 

608
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,600
lead a siege or, you know, set 
up a poisoning or like this 

609
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,639
huge, like important diplomatic 
action between nations. 

610
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,800
You'll have to draw cards from 
the deck and like call a certain

611
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,280
suit. 
So like if me and Galen were at 

612
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,520
odds against each other, we're 
both trying to like have our 

613
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,120
plans of action enacted. 
I would name a suit, Galen names

614
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,040
a suit, a different suit, and we
pull cards to the deck until we 

615
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,400
hit one of those suits. 
And for every card that doesn't 

616
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,640
match one of those suits, that's
more complications we have to 

617
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,200
deal with. 
So that can create like incoming

618
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,600
threats there is by clocks other
like tick up and stuff like 

619
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,040
that. 
And so that's a great way of 

620
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:32,240
doing that kind of like mixed 
success like the seven to nine, 

621
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:37,800
four to five result and PBTA and
forces arc games of like when 

622
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,600
you were doing something risky, 
you are introducing more 

623
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,320
challenges and obstacles into 
the fiction. 

624
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,920
And so that's like quite a lot 
of the bigger parts of like 

625
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:53,920
trying to grab those parts of 
these genres of stuff like Wolf 

626
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,160
Hall or even like Black Adder, 
which is another kind of like 

627
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,840
Touchstone for me. 
Work on this is like, nothing's 

628
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,560
ever cleaned. 
Like nothing is ever like 

629
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,760
you're, you're not here to be a 
a a hero, right. 

630
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,000
You are here to manage an awful 
situation. 

631
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,280
And the fun of it is seeing how 
these people are changed and how

632
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:15,320
the world is changed by it. 
Yeah, that's kind of like my 

633
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,200
influences in like how I'm 
trying to try to streamline the 

634
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,480
design as much as possible. 
And a lot of the moves growing 

635
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,800
out of that Powered by the 
Apocalypse framework and going 

636
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,840
into belonging, outside of 
Belonging and say in other all 

637
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,280
the other excellent variations 
of that, like Wander Home, 

638
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:35,240
you're doing a lot of not just 
collaborative world building, 

639
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:36,600
but collaborative character 
building. 

640
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,680
There's a lot of more so even in
than in any other system. 

641
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,160
And that's one of the things 
that really drew me to force in 

642
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,120
the Dark and PBTA and belong 
outside of Belonging is that 

643
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,640
everybody's kind of Co directing
Co writing the story in a way 

644
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,480
that was just so, so different 
from anything I'd experienced in

645
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:58,120
the more trad game world when I 
was younger. 

646
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:03,560
And it's just it it pushes you 
to, and I apologize to whoever 

647
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,360
said it first, because it might 
not have been John Harper but it

648
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,000
was John Harper who said drive 
your character like a stolen 

649
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,720
car. 
And I really always want to make

650
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:13,240
games where you just thrust them
in. 

651
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:15,960
They immediately start figuring 
out who they are as they play, 

652
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,360
and they know that when the 
session's over, when the game's 

653
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,080
over, it's OK for your character
been dragged off to the headsman

654
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,280
or to have perished while 
inciting a mob down by the 

655
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:26,760
Capitol. 
Because it was. 

656
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:33,040
It was a one good story. 
Yeah, yeah, as there was we, the

657
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,640
folks that blaze at our Discord,
actually did like a deep dive on

658
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,480
that quote, trying to figure out
where it came from. 

659
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,000
And the only thing I remember, I
think it was originally Avery 

660
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,440
Alder. 
I think it was somewhere in 

661
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,520
Monster Hearts or Monster Hearts
2. 

662
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,840
I think that it was actually 
about like talking about the NPC

663
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,360
specifically, which is a weird, 
like how it's been like, you 

664
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,040
know, lost in translation. 
But yeah, very much that kind of

665
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:59,280
feeling of like I am so much 
more drawn to games or about 

666
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,080
having like a bad time that 
about like heroic fantasies or 

667
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,720
wish fulfillment, because I had 
my fill of that with D&D. 

668
00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:08,520
Like, I don't. 
Maybe I'll go back to it at some

669
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,280
point, but like, I I am much 
more here for, like very 

670
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:16,320
complicated characters that you 
can kind of like, empathize 

671
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,200
with, right? 
Like, I don't. 

672
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,760
I don't need to be out and 
fighting for good anymore. 

673
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,520
I want, I want the the grey. 
I want the the awful, like 

674
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,800
devil's bargains and shit. 
Yeah, I couldn't. 

675
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,360
I couldn't agree more. 
I definitely ran way too much 

676
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:37,920
5E. 
You know the OC generator and. 

677
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,120
Exactly. 
That that's a that's a quote 

678
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:45,920
from Christian Trello. 
I'll make sure I always give. 

679
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,360
I always give them my credit for
that. 

680
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,480
But I I I love games where I 
don't even have a name because I

681
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:53,920
know I'm just gonna die, you 
know what I mean? 

682
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,600
So it's nice to to do something 
a little different. 

683
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,440
Kickstarter though. 
Kickstarter, Backer kick 

684
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:01,720
Crowdfunder. 
Kickstarter. 

685
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,520
Kickstarter. 
We're going to Kickstarter for 

686
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,520
Zenquest. 
Zenquest for those. 

687
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,960
I mean, This is why we're doing 
like 3030 episodes this month to

688
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,160
talk about people who are 
putting out great project. 

689
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:13,920
Not not this month, just over 
the two months. 

690
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:17,560
No, we've. 
Only worked for you. 

691
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,040
This is only like 15 or 16 this 
month. 

692
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,040
A scene quest is coming up in 
February. 

693
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:29,160
It is, you know, Kickstarter's 
very meager, mostly forgotten 

694
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,400
attempt to encourage indie 
creators to put out scenes and 

695
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,720
whatnot. 
And this is what this project is

696
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:38,800
for. 
I know that you're like, it has 

697
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,880
to be AZ and it has to be AZ, 
and so we're doing it for Zing 

698
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,440
Quest. 
So coming to Kickstarter, I 

699
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,800
believe, will you tell me when, 
when is it actually going to be 

700
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,760
on Kickstarter? 
It is going to be on Kickstarter

701
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,240
February 1st at. 
I think I'm going to try to push

702
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:55,920
the button at 9:00 AM PST. 
That's why I usually do it. 

703
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,720
So yeah, it's going to be 
February 1st. 

704
00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:03,720
It's going to run for two weeks,
so I'll be over February 15th in

705
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:06,520
the evening at some point. 
Yeah, gotcha. 

706
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,080
And why? 
Why? 

707
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:09,640
Why? 
A little too weaker. 

708
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,200
That's a good point. 
I just, that's how I run Star 

709
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,680
Campaign. 
It's like, I don't know, I 

710
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,880
started like I think the the 
advice that was kind of floating

711
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,360
around is like you don't get 
much more in a month than you 

712
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:29,400
would just in two weeks anyway. 
That's a lot less like you don't

713
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,960
have to sit with the anxiety of 
running something on Kickstarter

714
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,680
for a whole month, which is very
real the sooner. 

715
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,320
It's done and funded. 
The sooner we can get to making 

716
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,920
it the most beautiful thing we 
can like it's it'll be good to 

717
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,920
have that phase out of the way 
and onto the real meat and 

718
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,240
potatoes the job. 
Yeah, that. 

719
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,240
That's what the part is like. 
It is, is the sooner you end it,

720
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:53,800
the sooner you get your money. 
Basically. 

721
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,080
Like people I don't know, like 
after your Kickstarter ends, 

722
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,960
there's like a solid 2 weeks 
before you get the funds. 

723
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,480
And I I do this for a living. 
So like I need to like make sure

724
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,040
I have my bills paid and like 
rent and stuff like that. 

725
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,840
So two weeks just makes it a lot
more manageable, a lot easier to

726
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,680
plan around. 
And yeah, that's. 

727
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,640
Yeah, So what? 
What can people expect from the 

728
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,880
Kickstarter? 
Are you guys gonna have, like, a

729
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,040
bunch of tiers and fancy stuff? 
Are we keeping it nice and 

730
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:32,200
focused? 
After after talking Galen down 

731
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:37,920
from the special like hand like 
embossed leather copy of the 

732
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:45,040
book that he wanted. 
Yeah, it's going to be 3 tiers, 

733
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,640
real simple. 
I always do like a financial 

734
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,400
hardship tier, so I'll be like 3
or 5 bucks. 

735
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,960
You don't have a lot to spend. 
You can still get the digital 

736
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,040
edition of the game. 
You'll get early access to it to

737
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,840
get all the updates, and then 
you there's a tier for just the 

738
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,640
digital version, so very 
similar. 

739
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,160
You get the PDF through H dot IO
and drive through RPG, and also 

740
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,360
just can download it off a link 
I'll post on the Kickstarter. 

741
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:15,840
Again, you get like early access
to early drafts and stuff like 

742
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,440
that, and then we'll have the 
Zen tier, where you'll get a 

743
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,560
incredibly gorgeous printed copy
of the game shipped to you 

744
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,680
anywhere in the world, in 
addition to the digital 

745
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,560
downloads and everything else 
from the previous tiers. 

746
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,680
So real simple, just three tiers
at the game in various forms. 

747
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,600
That's it. 
Yeah, love to hear it. 

748
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,240
Love to see it. 
I listen. 

749
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:43,280
I've only backed many hundreds 
of Kickstarters and I love 

750
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,320
stuff, right? 
I love all the bits and bobs. 

751
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:50,960
But I will say that I love a 
nice, clean, quick Kickstarter. 

752
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,360
And I know, Michael, everything 
I've backed from you is almost 

753
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,880
always a pretty quick turn 
around. 

754
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,920
You get it in hand like solidly.
I mean there a lot of times it's

755
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,920
like by the time the funding 
actually hits into each you're 

756
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,080
like, well, I finished it, so I 
guess I'll print it. 

757
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:08,880
You know, it's coming up excited
to get rigged, you know that's 

758
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,920
coming in soon as well. 
So it's really nice to see, 

759
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,040
especially for scenes and 
especially for scenes quest. 

760
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,240
You know a lot of people put a 
lot of money in this month 

761
00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:21,120
specifically and since scenes 
are quote UN quote smaller 

762
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:26,560
projects, it's nice to not wait 
three years for for a project 

763
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:28,880
for something like this. 
So it's that's one of the 

764
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,120
reasons The Inquest is one of my
favorite months of the year is 

765
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,640
just because so many great game.
I'm also a person. 

766
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:39,120
If you write that 300 page book 
I'm I'm gonna buy it, but I'm 

767
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,920
probably not gonna read it. 
And I think that 250 pages is 

768
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,960
probably superfluous. 
I love scenes. 

769
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,360
I love small games. 
I'll get you can get a system 

770
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,280
without all the stuff, cuz I 
feel like this stuff is why I 

771
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,760
play the game. 
I don't need you to tell it to 

772
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,200
me. 
Another reason I really love a 

773
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,720
lot of your stuff, Michael, is 
just because it is so clean and 

774
00:43:57,720 --> 00:43:59,400
nice. 
The facility as well from Galen,

775
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,840
yeah, I love seeing Kickstarter 
that are exactly what you're 

776
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,320
doing here. 
So it's really nice to see that 

777
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,720
once again, like a lot of the 
other stuff that you've done, 

778
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,800
you're gonna continue doing what
you do. 

779
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,040
So it's really nice to see. 
Thanks. 

780
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,160
Yeah, I like the reason I love 
smaller projects is because it 

781
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,320
serves as an enzyme. 
Quest in general is because it 

782
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,040
serves as a reminder that like, 
hey, if you're an indie designer

783
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,320
out there, you don't. 
Your projects don't have to be 

784
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,800
like the big, you know names. 
We all know, right? 

785
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:36,640
It doesn't have to be this 2 to 
300 page hard, ever huge fucking

786
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,040
thing. 
It can be like a 36 page scene 

787
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,880
like I have. 
I have lost count the amount of 

788
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,320
like first time designers I've 
seen who was like, hey I have 

789
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:46,800
this like cool thing I'm working
on. 

790
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,240
It's like 500 pages. 
I'm just like make something 

791
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:53,200
smaller. 
Like you can still have your 

792
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:54,720
like your big thing down the 
line. 

793
00:44:54,720 --> 00:45:00,480
But like you learn so much about
the process by having a small 

794
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,680
thing you can finish and get to 
the end of and you can find out 

795
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,920
all the things you like, you 
like or might not like about 

796
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,600
doing something like this. 
Like you might find like, hey, I

797
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,520
really love layout and I hate 
the writing or like, hey, I 

798
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,080
really love doing the arts but 
like all like trying to figure 

799
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,440
out how it all fits the stuff 
together. 

800
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,000
I wish I could have like someone
else for that. 

801
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,280
And like you learn so much about
the process and yourself by 

802
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,880
smaller projects the faster turn
around time. 

803
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:29,680
And honestly like just most 
people have time for your game 

804
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,240
if it's a smaller, manageable 
thing. 

805
00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:35,000
It's so much easier to convince 
other people to play a game if 

806
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,120
they can read it in a couple 
hours, right? 

807
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,400
If it doesn't, remind them of, 
like the textbooks they had to 

808
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,840
study in university, right? 
So especially if you're like an 

809
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,840
indie creator, you don't have a 
big team with you like Azeen 

810
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:53,840
Azeen Quest itself, because like
Kickstarter really is about his 

811
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,160
own kind of internal ecosystem. 
So if you can be part of an 

812
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,040
event like this, it really helps
have more eyes on your project. 

813
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,000
So I'm always encouraging people
make smaller games. 

814
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,480
Yeah, so. 
Oh, go Galen, Go over here. 

815
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,560
I just love that we've all been 
there and I love the idea of 

816
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,480
being in that chain that 
somebody gets sits down in the 

817
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,320
morning when the quest begins 
again with their coffee or their

818
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:25,120
tea, and then accidentally spams
through the 612 links and ends 

819
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,120
up with a pile of zines. 
I want to be in the middle of 

820
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,760
that and be with that, not just 
part of the where somebody says,

821
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,440
oh that's for me, but also after
they've clicked by that, they 

822
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,000
still feel they've got enough 
remaining credit to go after 

823
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:41,080
some other indie creators. 
Design after that, it's it's 

824
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,520
exciting to be a part of the 
whole thing. 

825
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,720
Then it's an event. 
Yeah, I mean Zing Quest, 

826
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:48,640
especially in the space is a 
huge vent. 

827
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,080
I know, I know in the last year 
or two, you know, Zemo popped in

828
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,960
and popped out and and and 
Kickstarter decided to shoot 

829
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,920
themselves in the foot. 
But I'm glad it's back in 

830
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,120
February. 
I'm glad people are are really 

831
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,960
launching into it. 
And and you know, again, it's 

832
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,840
the reason we're doing as many 
of us as we are. 

833
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,120
We want to talk to people like 
you guys who were big fans of 

834
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,600
who have something coming out 
and want to try to make sure we 

835
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:11,840
get as many eyes on it as 
possible. 

836
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,800
Because, you know, the support 
for people like you doing the 

837
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:19,520
things that you doing is what is
the reason we started the show 

838
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,400
entirely so. 
Yeah, thank you. 

839
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,280
And also I just want to say 
shout out to you and Hunter for 

840
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,760
doing the weekly scroll and all 
these shows you do. 

841
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:35,720
Like I I have learnt about so 
many games I would never have 

842
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:39,120
heard of because you featured it
here on like a let's play a 

843
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,840
review. 
And you all do such a great job 

844
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,960
of like elevating indie creators
and talking about their stuff. 

845
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,680
And like like I mentioned 
before, like you were the one of

846
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,240
the first people that like 
reviewed or even like mentioned 

847
00:47:51,240 --> 00:47:55,520
merger outside of like be trying
to like get other people to talk

848
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,920
about it. 
And like that kind of like 

849
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:02,480
seemingly organic like thing 
like really helps creators like 

850
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,920
get some confidence and feel 
like they aren't screaming into 

851
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,360
the voice. 
It could be very lonely work 

852
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:10,120
doing this sort of thing. 
And yeah, the weekly school has 

853
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,240
been absolutely fantastic in 
like elevating people's voices 

854
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:15,440
and talking about things that 
aren't in the mainstream. 

855
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,400
So thank you. 
It's been awesome seeing it and 

856
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:19,800
I'm glad to finally be part of 
it. 

857
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:22,960
Yeah, it's great. 
I mean it's great to have you 

858
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:24,120
on. 
It's great to have you both on. 

859
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,400
I mean we're definitely talking 
about more and more stuff from 

860
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,400
you, from you both as we go 
forward from here and talk about

861
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,280
that. 
Do you guys, is there anything 

862
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:36,280
in in the chamber for either of 
you, anything post fealty or are

863
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:37,440
we just focusing on that right 
now? 

864
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,080
You are first this time, Galen. 
That's very fair. 

865
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:45,680
Far too many things, in all 
honesty. 

866
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,480
After last year, we did that 
aforementioned space stores game

867
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,560
and it went quite well. 
So with I don't know if you're 

868
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:57,360
familiar with any of the other 
breathless game projects, but 

869
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,000
the Million the. 
Million million Fari RPG 

870
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,880
Breathless, yeah. 
He's such a little tornado of 

871
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:09,400
energy, but he and I are working
on both a a game of space combat

872
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,800
actually. 
Now it's bifurcating into two 

873
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,880
different forms of that kind of 
a a Hansel of smuggling story 

874
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,040
and a Battlestar Galactica type 
game that uses the breathless 

875
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,680
engine and look for that to come
sometime later this year. 

876
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,280
There's not. 
I've also done a little bit of 

877
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,480
art for Spencer Campbell's Luna,
one of his ongoing Nova Verse 

878
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,040
games that will be also coming 
out in this February I believe. 

879
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:35,280
Yeah. 
Did you? 

880
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,440
Do the art on dusk as well. 
I did do the art on Dusk. 

881
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:39,880
Is that out now? 
Yeah, I can. 

882
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,160
Barely I. 
Believe it just dropped on the 

883
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:42,320
store? 
I think so. 

884
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:44,720
Yeah, yeah, the cover is 
awesome. 

885
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:46,720
Produced. 
So much, so quickly, it's hard 

886
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:50,920
to keep up with him. 
Chad says it is out. 

887
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,520
I I I got to add that to my 
Spencer cable collection. 

888
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,480
It's over just off screen there.
Oh, wonderful. 

889
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:58,920
Well, good. 
Those are a lot of fun to work 

890
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,600
on, so I'm glad to see them 
showing up in people's hands. 

891
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,920
How about you, Michael? 
Yes. 

892
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:11,240
So other than Field T, yeah, we 
were talking a little bit about 

893
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:15,400
Rig Ryan, your copy is probably,
I literally have like hundreds 

894
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,360
of envelopes stuffed and ready 
to go next to my feet here. 

895
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,320
So your copy is probably in 
there somewhere. 

896
00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:26,520
So yeah, I'm shipping that. 
It's my solo mixels like game 

897
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,960
speaker Spencer Campbell based 
on the Rune system, which I 

898
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,960
absolutely fell in love with. 
And so it's again about being in

899
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,280
a Mac and fighting other Macs. 
That's a lot of fun. 

900
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,960
And because the kick started so 
well, I am also going to doing a

901
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,960
supplements called the Good Ship
Tarot, which is like basically 

902
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:51,200
Rig takes place on the far 
distant future of Earth called 

903
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,640
Recombinant Earth, which is all 
like just reduced to bones and 

904
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,280
superstructure. 
And so Good Ship Tarot is 

905
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,120
basically like, hey, what if you
were a mech on a giant ship that

906
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,960
has been in the stars for 
centuries and all the weirdness 

907
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:08,440
that'll be there. 
And also I kind of want to do 

908
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,800
like maybe a multiplayer version
where you get to use your Macs 

909
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:18,960
and fight other people's Macs, 
like 1V1 combat, because the the

910
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,000
10th anniversary of Titanfall is
coming up in March. 

911
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,200
So I'd love to have some stuff 
ready to celebrate that because 

912
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,000
it's one of my absolute favorite
Mac video games of all time. 

913
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:36,120
So, yeah, that's when we work on
Next is, yeah, Fealty and also 

914
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:41,280
more more supplements and 
add-ons for Rig hopefully, yeah.

915
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,520
And then where can for for both 
of you guys? 

916
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,480
For future projects? 
For current projects running, 

917
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,000
it's out right now. 
Where can people currently find 

918
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,360
your your stuff? 
Where can they support you? 

919
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:59,680
Yeah, so for me, my socials are 
basically all not writing or not

920
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,520
writing games. 
So I'm not writing games on 

921
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,880
Twitter. 
You can find my games on Not 

922
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,400
writing dot itch dot IO. 
You can support me on 

923
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,560
patreonpatreon.com/not writing. 
It's the cheapest way to get my 

924
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:14,320
games dollar a month to get 
everything. 

925
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,960
I self publish behind the scenes
stuff. 

926
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:24,400
You get to vote on stuff I make,
yeah, that's basically where you

927
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:29,920
can find me. 
You can find my stuff at either 

928
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,320
G Peugeot on Twitter. 
Boy, I picked these names back 

929
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,000
before I knew I was going to be 
an illustrator or designer, so I

930
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:40,880
apologize. 
And at night Jar Games and Itch 

931
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,440
where quite a lot of them are 
very cheap or free if you want 

932
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:48,320
to try out what I make. 
And and obviously again we have 

933
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,080
these guys on the show for 
reasons because the stuff they 

934
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:51,680
make is fantastic. 
So they definitely want to go 

935
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,720
support that and we'll make sure
that all the links are in, you 

936
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:57,880
know all of the the beneath. 
Wherever you're listening or 

937
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,880
watching this, you can just 
click on that easily and go go 

938
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,880
drop some support of these guys.
Field C coming out February 1st,

939
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:06,440
very excited for that short 
campaign. 

940
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,720
Two weeks, don't miss it. 
We'll remind everybody listening

941
00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:12,720
every week. 
All of our quote UN quote normal

942
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:16,080
episodes every Thursday during 
these two months. 

943
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,720
We're going to do a round up 
each time to remind everyone 

944
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:21,240
what's still funding. 
I mean what they should go back.

945
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,360
Listen, thank you guys both so 
much for being here. 

946
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,320
Michael, like I said, we've been
a supporter for a really long 

947
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:26,680
time. 
It's really great to finally 

948
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,760
have you show on the show and 
talk and Galen absolutely love 

949
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:31,160
your work and your illustrations
as well. 

950
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,040
Genuinely really appreciate you 
guys being here. 

951
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:35,200
Thank you. 
Very much. 

952
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,160
Before we go, could I like, 
highlight a couple of other 

953
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,480
design quest things that you do?
Yeah. 

954
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,200
Awesome. 
I just want to mention Death 

955
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,760
Game by Laurie O'Connell. 
O'Connell, one of my favorite 

956
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:53,120
designers. 
It's like very much like like 

957
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,000
some kind of awful reality show.
We have to kill each other for 

958
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,760
the entertainment of the rich. 
So very much politically aligned

959
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,360
with fealty, I think. 
So yeah, Death Game is coming 

960
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,000
out in Zion Quest. 
We mentioned Luna by Spencer 

961
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:10,280
Campbell also coming out. 
I think there's a solo game 

962
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,680
called The Magus and the Oracle 
that's also coming out. 

963
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,920
During Zion quest. 
With from Amato's which looks I 

964
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:17,800
just found out about last night 
looks incredible. 

965
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,960
So just want to shout out those 
two projects as well in the 

966
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:27,040
Design Quest family. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

967
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,080
Yeah. 
Lawyer kind of reached out. 

968
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:29,760
So we're definitely gonna be 
talking about that project a 

969
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,080
little bit, doing one of our 
roundups. 

970
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,120
It looks absolutely stunning 
with the Hodag doing some art 

971
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:35,680
for it. 
So that's definitely something 

972
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,280
I'll see brought up here in the 
show as well. 

973
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,800
And we did art from Amato's 
before their layout and art is 

974
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,200
absolutely stunning. 
So really excited for Megas too.

975
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:45,720
So those are great call outs for
those. 

976
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,680
Yeah, back all of those back 
fields see when it drops in like

977
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,840
2 days if you're listening to 
this, hopefully I put the 

978
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:57,360
episode out before the 1st if I 
didn't go jump on it right now. 

979
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:02,040
But again, thank you guys so 
much for being here and that is 

980
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,480
it for us. 
We will see everybody later. 

981
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:05,800
Have a good day. 
Bye. 

982
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:06,240
Very much.