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Hello, and welcome to the 
weekly. 

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Scroll podcast brought to you by
the adventure. 

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Archive, my name is Ryan and I'm
the fell handed. 

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Nice. 
And with us today, we have a 

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very special guest. 
We have Zachary Cox also known 

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as jelly Muppet. 
How you doing this morning? 

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Yeah. 
Wonderful. 

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Thank you. 
Just sit down with each about 

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some Cowboys, do some excited, 
too excited to chat. 

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I love it. 
When people, let me have ADHD 

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written Rambles. 
Which is what I was promised 

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from this wonderful question. 
Absolutely. 

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It's the only one, I don't know 
how to do anything else. 

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Still, I'm definitely down for 
that and we now have jelly mop 

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it up on the screen for those 
corners of the internet. 

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That know you as Jilly Muppet, I
guess, first question, where did

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jelly Muppet come from? 
um, It's been my like gamertag 

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and inverted commas for a really
long time. 

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I think I was first. 
Awarded it while playing like 

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man vs. 
Machine in TF2 or something. 

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So I would have been like 15 
years ago now for probably, I 

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don't know. 
Yeah. 

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And then so Muppet kind of 
sprung from that same name. 

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A muppet of course being a 
British term for a foolish 

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person and jelly being a special
dessert. 

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We have that is Not it's not the
same as jab. 

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A lot of Americans think, but 
it's the jelly that you have 

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with peanut butter is instead 
like a sort of gelatinous wobbly

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thing that you eat with ice 
cream on the Queen's birthday. 

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You know. 
Now is it what we call Jelly? 

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What you guys call Jim Yes, I 
meant relative I think you guys 

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might call it. 
Jello is what just shallow 

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gelatin. 
Yeah, so it's actually amazingly

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strong so let's just do that. 
Who are you? 

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So much of it. 
Cool. 

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So I as the jelly marker runs so
my pit, which is a RPG 

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publishing company based in the 
United Kingdom, we make games in

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house. 
You might have heard of us from 

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staff reviewed on this wonderful
podcast. 

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Before such as orbital Blues, 
best left, buried stygian 

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Library gangs, attacked and 
City, the big thing we've got on

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Kickstarter at the moment is 
inevitable. 

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Which is a big sad, Cowboy game.
We also do A lot publishing and 

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we have a really good web store 
that offers a lot of weird 

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stuff. 
You're not going to find 

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anywhere else. 
We do a lot of Printing and 

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Publishing for people who can't 
afford to manage their own print

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runs or don't have access to 
like capital or location based 

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stuff. 
One of the most important 

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projects we did was something 
called Latin break out a couple 

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years ago where we basically 
gave a bunch of money to a bunch

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of offers you created us from 
Latin America and said hey you 

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know that game you always wanted
to make that you couldn't afford

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to get all the art forms. 
Or you wanted go ahead and make 

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the damn thing. 
So now there's a bunch of games 

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as a lot of that and we do a 
bunch of publishing of 

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interesting games that you might
not be able to see otherwise in 

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the kind of Indie old school and
Story game, ease fears, and the 

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games, I write personally as a 
Creator are to do with people 

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trapped in cycles of inescapable
Cycles, you know, to do. 

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Capitalism, and mental health, 
and depression, and 

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inevitability of services. 
And then watching how people 

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tell stories in those spaces and
it's usually beautiful and it's 

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always sad. 
So, yeah, that's I also work as 

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a producer at Roanoke and 
Deckard, where I've have my 

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hands in stuff, such as the die 
RPG, which came out, which is 

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coming out of the moment and 
also stuff like walk Borg, and 

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then some of the new Our heart 
and Spire stuff. 

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I've been lucky enough to be 
involved in so long. 

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Yeah. 
Big full calendar of RPG 

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adjacent stuff basically yeah. 
Yeah. 

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How did you? 
Get associated with Ron Rock and

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Echo too because they know I 
remember the announcement when 

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that when they first came out 
but what was the the length they

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get you guys hooked up to that. 
You're not only doing some of it

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which is a fantastic successful 
company but also working with 

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Roanoke and Deckard which is a 
fantastic successful company 

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here in the scene. 
Oh, I've known as Grant and 

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Chris for a really long time. 
We've been chatting variously 

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Mars has one of the Smartest 
people in the back room of 

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role-playing games away from the
kind of creative side and is 

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very good at project management 
and Logistics and marketing and 

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like businesses stuff, which is 
something I wanted to get better

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at. 
So I wanted to work with me as 

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much as I could and also adored 
all of the games that Granite 

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Chris make heart Inspire have 
been psychically large to me for

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a very long time and I was I was
looking for some work. 

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Maz was struggling to project 
manager, Li already stuff, we're

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working also on a day job. 
So I kind of started working 

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part-time with the view of 
helping them out with projects 

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and allowing them to do more 
stuff. 

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So and it kind of was a fruitful
partnership and it worked from 

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there. 
That was like two years ago now.

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So yeah. 
Just involvement in that 

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particularly like a big focus of
what I've been doing. 

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Has been working on die of last 
couple years. 

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Of managing working with caring,
the Fantastic Aaron geter and 

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Stephanie hands on that. 
Gorgeous and beautiful book and 

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building a team to kind of bring
that one to reality. 

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So yeah, it's just work from 
there and wave, just like it, 

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you know, running a RPG business
is really hard and do you know 

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the fact that I have two jobs, 
makes it a little bit easier and

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it means that when I'm working 
for Solar Pit, I can spend more 

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money on hiring creatives and 
doing exciting things rather 

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than Sitting in my attic and 
writing things which is what I'd

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be doing if I was trying to make
it full time. 

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But yeah. 
Yeah, I'm very, very excited for

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die. 
We've actually already read 

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third a little bit but as soon 
as that physical hits here, we 

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play enduring that right to the 
show as well. 

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The I mean, I haven't physically
held it but I've seen pictures 

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enough the limb the the 
kickstarter cover for. 

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That is so stunning in the art 
is insane. 

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So I guess jumping far ahead 
especially since someone just 

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asked about it in chat. 
Did the Dai RPG come together 

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from the graphic novel kind of 
comic book aspect of it from 

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before to actually get to this 
this physical thing. 

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You know? 
You said it took a couple of 

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years, but how did that process 
kind of go? 

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Well, Karen so obviously I can't
speak to all of its process 

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because I was probably brought 
in about halfway through to sort

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of handle. 
Some of the production side of 

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it to do with editing and 
graphic design, and layout, and 

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kind of turning it from Big 
manuscript into the book. 

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You have in front of your hands 
now. 

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And obviously, That was a 
tremendous team effort involving

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a lot of editing from Graham and
myself and masses in put on all 

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that work. 
And also a whole team of 

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fantastic Freelancers. 
Including will yobs to was our 

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Mains editor and load archivist 
who also did the graphic design 

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for orbital Blues. 
Everyone loves to kind of come 

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in and Spruce that hop along 
with a load of people caring 

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side as well. 
But I mean it always was Rock 

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again as soon as the first comic
was before, all the for Comic 

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was written, Aaron was had 
already had enough of it to run 

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it, right? 
And the reason he kind of 

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brought it to our ideas that he 
wanted somebody of a bunch of 

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Polish and experience and making
books from doing it, because 

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there was a play test out on it.
You could get like the die beta.

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I think it was called. 
I played it for the first time 

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in 2018, I think so I can really
long time ago. 

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Now, when I was first, yeah, 
Priya Priya. 

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Preview into the world. 
That's crazy. 

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Yeah, so that was obviously 
like, well, we removed from 

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carrot. 
So when I heard I actually side 

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my handy and got to actually got
told, but when I do actually 

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something only a, but kind of 
said, okay, I'll charge. 

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This is what we're doing. 
I was like, yes, because that 

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was the did, I RPG was like my 
personal game of the year for 

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2018. 
I played like an enormously 

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cathartic, five-game, five-game 
campaign of it where I was 

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playing like a Neo who was a 
writer and like stuff from my 

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novel was appearing in the world
we were playing in kind of and 

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that was super cathartic and 
help me work for a bunch of 

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stuff. 
So when it we found out there 

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was something has been made. 
I was so excited but yeah, he 

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always want the role-playing 
game alongside being a comic and

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Kieran obviously. 
Why I wanted answers to help 

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bring it from this enormous 
manage because I care and handed

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us like 250,000 words or 
something and there's like only 

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100,000 in the final book. 
So we really dug through it. 

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I could have pulled out the 
beautiful thing but people will 

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suit what people are in the UK 
and in Europe, starting to hold 

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in their hands. 
I've not had my copy yet, so 

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there are customers getting it 
before, I'll get mine. 

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But yeah, when it's going to 
reach the US, the next couple 

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weeks months or so. 
Hopefully and then yeah it's 

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it's a wonderful process because
I again P anybody who hasn't 

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read the die, comic should go 
and do so but it's like a sort 

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of a matter narrative about 
Going into fantasy kingdoms 

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based on the dreams and 
aspirations, and emotional, 

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connections of all of these 
people from The Real World. 

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But you make the soup fractured 
with the people and then 

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deciding about a fantasy as 
better reality or not, which 

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like touches so many, beautiful 
themes, and stories and 

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emotions, you're able to tell 
using that framework. 

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And yeah, it was turning getting
to be even involved in that 

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process was such a such a joy, 
even if you know, Project has 

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been we've had some delays 
because of paper and printing 

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and Logistics and getting 
everything signed off. 

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And the minion particular, you 
mentioned the production, you've

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seen some pictures of the fancy 
Deluxe cover version with the 

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slipcase and the black book 
cloth like that was a nightmare 

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to put together from a design 
perspective. 

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And Ryan Hughes did such a 
fantastic job of Designing the 

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dance thing, but yeah, 
beautiful. 

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For piece of a piece of book, 
generic. 

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And this got a great game in as 
well. 

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So excited for more people to 
play it. 

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Yeah, we're really excited to 
eventually go through and talk 

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about along here because we 
already have planned. 

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So yeah, that's guy like it's 
like you said just can't wait to

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actually get that one in hand. 
And as you said before, you do a

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lot of emotional games, only to 
say, sad games. 

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But one of the early games you 
did is one of my favorite games 

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is best left buried. 
Little bit different themes. 

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And I, you know, just a bit. 
But what, what was your impetus 

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for getting that out? 
Like, what inspired you to do? 

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Best left buried. 
So, I mean, so I was the creator

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of better pairing. 
I work with my what? 

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Co-create? 
And I work. 

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My wonderful friend Ben Brown. 
It was the artists from the 

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time, I was playing a lot of old
school games in that period 

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primarily like met As rats. 
What other stuff would have been

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knave? 
A few stop bits like that and I 

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was getting really annoyed about
how off to my characters, a Time

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Dungeon called Classics and 
stuff like that. 

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It's of all that goes to. 
Whether you can see my character

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is getting killed and it was 
really annoying because I wanted

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to tell these characters. 
So when I was playing Major 

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routes, the first thing I did is
like with new players who mainly

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play D&D and would like, so 
happy to have. 

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Got it all the rules. 
I said, okay, you're dying of 

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it, too often I gave every 
player a blue dice that was 

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like, you can use This re-roll 
it once per session. 

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And then give it to me, you 
don't get that, right? 

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It was basically a re-roll that 
was a physical component and 

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then I sort of asked myself. 
What does that actually mean? 

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Was it due? 
And then kind of the The themes 

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of best left buried, kind of 
Drew out. 

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And first, it was meant to be a 
straight horrid dungeon corner 

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where for those that aren't 
familiar. 

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Your kind of professional the 
venture has going into a dungeon

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on behalf of Bank basically to 
do colonialism and that was a 

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very over time. 
It was mainly just do. 

226
00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:11,500
This is a reason that the 
characters are all together, 

227
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,100
right? 
Rather than having everyone meet

228
00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:17,200
at the pub and then go somewhere
and kind of it was reflected in 

229
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,100
what I thought was cool about 
monsters. 

230
00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:22,800
Which is the Creepiness the 
unknowability, the fact that 

231
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,000
players shouldn't know how they 
work or what they do. 

232
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,400
Right. 
And should instead be something 

233
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:33,200
that is still terrifying and 
Eldritch two players. 

234
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,000
So I kind of write all these 
rules about creating your own 

235
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,600
monsters having to be spooky and
then like came up for the reason

236
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,500
for these budaya to exist in 
that it represented a resource 

237
00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:46,700
that your character has 
basically their strength of Will

238
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:50,100
and carrots are kind of a 
coagulation of stamina. 

239
00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:55,300
Sanity and manner, right? 
So you could use it to cast 

240
00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:58,400
spells, used to get re-roll 
sometimes monsters removed 

241
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:03,700
intact if they're complete a 
particularly terrifying and the 

242
00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:06,700
only way to get back was 
accepting these fun role-playing

243
00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:09,000
consequences which we called 
afflictions which were like you 

244
00:14:09,008 --> 00:14:10,800
know your character is now 
scared of spiders. 

245
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,700
Your character does 
claustrophobia you want to set 

246
00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:19,000
everything on fire and so like 
it started you off as these You 

247
00:14:19,008 --> 00:14:23,000
know, professional adventurers 
fresh-faced and then they go 

248
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,100
into the dungeon and then 
they'll either be killed which 

249
00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:27,700
can happen occasions less lethal
than like a sort traditional 

250
00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:30,700
old-school game because it has 
these Story game. 

251
00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:33,500
Ish, macro, elements that we 
weaved, in terms of the 

252
00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:39,400
character progression being 
mainly about losing this sense 

253
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,400
of self, or the time. 
And that being a place to 

254
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:48,200
something, the dungeon gives you
and that, then I realized I'd 

255
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,000
written a game. 
About like workers rights and 

256
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,500
colonialism that. 
Oh, wait a second. 

257
00:14:54,500 --> 00:14:56,800
That's what this is about. 
People get asking interviews. 

258
00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,000
I call you wrote this very 
interesting game about Labor 

259
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,600
struggles. 
I like, did I, I thought it was 

260
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,900
a real plane came about. 
That was just a reason the 

261
00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:06,400
characters are there, but now go
back to it now, it's super clear

262
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,900
like, what is happening when you
read that book? 

263
00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:10,700
And I think that a lot of people
love it. 

264
00:15:11,300 --> 00:15:13,300
I think it's called the most 
politicized dungeon crawling 

265
00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:16,400
game that I could think of it, 
but with my head but and some of

266
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,500
the adventure content, we've 
done since damage dealt with 

267
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:20,900
more. 
Steve's particularly the latest.

268
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:23,400
But we did which one on 
Kickstarter back in October. 

269
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,800
I think throat of avarice, which
is like a colonial. 

270
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:34,200
It's set in your like, London 
Amsterdam place and you 

271
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,100
basically, it's very, very clear
these kind of equivalence of all

272
00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:40,900
the banks, and the East India 
Company, and the consortium's, 

273
00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:44,700
and all these places and kind of
allowing you to engage with the 

274
00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:47,600
themes of that, that was written
and illustrated by the Fantastic

275
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,600
Brainiac. 
Sure who's done, Done a bunch of

276
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,600
stuff up some before and 
obviously some incredible books 

277
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,400
of their own. 
But yeah, it kind of sprung from

278
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,200
this frustration, I had that my 
character kept dying and I'd 

279
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,000
rather something interesting 
happened to them and death 

280
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,200
instead so that when death did 
eventually happen, it was 

281
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,900
meaningful and it really did 
something to the campaign. 

282
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,400
Yeah, very cool. 
Yeah, there's a similar even 

283
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,100
inaudible Blues. 
Its there's the swan song which 

284
00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:16,600
is like, you know, is that 
what's called? 

285
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,800
Yeah, they do. 
One song is the version where 

286
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,100
your characters about to die and
then you can say, yeah, I'm 

287
00:16:22,100 --> 00:16:24,900
going to die here and then you 
get to make something of your 

288
00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:26,900
dad. 
Is one of my face really come 

289
00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:30,300
from a place of like really. 
Appreciating like I do enjoy the

290
00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:33,800
really real esque Dungeon 
Crawley like your people, your 

291
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,600
characters just died, but like 
reading through like a lot of 

292
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,500
the games on so up, it's like, 
oh, it's a really like, very, 

293
00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:44,900
like, character like 
narrative-driven deaths. 

294
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,600
There's a field very epic and 
like the closing of a story. 

295
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:51,000
And I really like, do appreciate
that. 

296
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,700
So, you guys create and publish 
games, when you're publishing 

297
00:16:55,700 --> 00:17:00,300
games, like, is there something 
you look for that, you're like, 

298
00:17:00,300 --> 00:17:04,000
oh, this is like this fits 
within like what we think of as 

299
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,099
like a soul Muppet published 
game. 

300
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:12,200
So I know what something that I 
write or something that I'm 

301
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,300
involved created Lee wants to 
look like you know that's about 

302
00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:19,700
all those all these themes that 
are shared between inevitable 

303
00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:22,900
and Canton City of best that 
buried and all losers. 

304
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:26,000
Like the four big things that we
make in terms of stuff on 

305
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,100
published. 
I'm mainly looking for just 

306
00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:31,300
something interesting and 
different that hasn't been seen 

307
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:36,400
before I, if it is a mechanic or
an art style, or a pitch or a 

308
00:17:36,408 --> 00:17:44,300
genre, that's something I tend 
to go for and also like, Just 

309
00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:48,000
like Innovation essentially. 
Like I think there's a lot of 

310
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,100
like games that look very 
similar on that in the kind of 

311
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:56,000
breadth of what RPGs can be. 
Yeah, honestly, like other. 

312
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,800
But a lot of the time, it's the 
people like there's about five 

313
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,800
or six people now, but whatever.
They want to put the rest of 

314
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:07,400
their lives, I'll make 100. 
But like, you know, that's 

315
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,000
something I'm sort of growing to
understand is that I kind of 

316
00:18:11,008 --> 00:18:14,300
want to build a Network of 
people rather than a list of 

317
00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:16,400
what this game really 
specifically should look like 

318
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,300
because it's like it's not my 
job, I think to be a tastemaker.

319
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:26,100
It's my job to like help other 
people make games and have them 

320
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:30,200
exist in the world, right? 
And give access to Market to 

321
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,000
marketing, to the resources to 
do, print runs and the 

322
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,500
understanding of the logistics 
and running a web store because 

323
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:39,500
like a lot of people who make 
games don't want to get involved

324
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:41,600
in running a publishing company,
right? 

325
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,000
Whereas Something, if I if I 
didn't want to run a publishing 

326
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,100
company, I should have made it a
lot of different decisions. 

327
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:52,300
A very long time ago, that all 
that stuff is basically an 

328
00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:54,800
excuse while, all that stuff 
ultimate is me an excuse to 

329
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,400
write the stuff. 
I really excited about and not 

330
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,100
have to work in an office where 
I type numbers into a screen. 

331
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,800
It's important to me that I can 
like help otter voices 

332
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:12,400
particularly where I can with a 
focus on queer and like non On 

333
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:17,800
Western non-caucasian creators 
and kind of push things in that 

334
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,600
direction but yeah, very cool. 
Absolutely. 

335
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,000
And, you know, the Solve IT 
store. 

336
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,100
I was so excited. 
Can you guys have not only the 

337
00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:29,600
UK store but there's a US based 
store in L so you don't have to 

338
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,800
pay shipping to cross all the 
way over the ocean. 

339
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,800
Now and you guys work with, I 
believe it's floating chair club

340
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,300
that does all of your 
distribution. 

341
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,100
Yeah. 
So we've got, we've got a 

342
00:19:38,108 --> 00:19:41,400
partner in the UK but does all 
of our rest of world and 

343
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,600
European and English. 
Well, you got to kind of stuff 

344
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,300
specifically, but floating chair
is, like, our person we work 

345
00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:51,800
with, in the states and we, 
basically last year, we shut the

346
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,600
store down. 
We moved everything out of my 

347
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,500
attic, which is where I was 
previously and then opened up 

348
00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:01,100
our kind of distributed 
fulfillment process that had 

349
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:03,200
these two sites. 
And of course, obviously, a lot 

350
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,500
of the market is American and 
it's where a lot of RPG fans are

351
00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:10,900
particularly India RPGs weirdly,
and because there's more people 

352
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:14,500
playing games, there's wider 
access to people running stuff 

353
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,900
and we wanted to make sure we 
could get something sorted there

354
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:27,200
in the sombre Stateside and 
Critically working floating 

355
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,900
chair was Fantastic, Sam's. 
A great guy, runs an awesome 

356
00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:33,400
story Zone, and kind of has 
given us the ability to do more 

357
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,300
stuff like that. 
We're kind of starting to Branch

358
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:37,300
out into kick. 
Start filming as well. 

359
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,500
We have a process currently that
we're stuck. 

360
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:41,900
We've got off the ground and is 
working. 

361
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:44,600
And now, if you're if this 
sounds interesting to you, you 

362
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,700
should find me on Twitter and 
message me were basically people

363
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:52,200
at home, this is, it's not these
two specifically, but we've 

364
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,500
started offering like zero cost 
to create a Stop the forward or 

365
00:20:55,508 --> 00:20:57,600
basically you shippers your 
books. 

366
00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,600
We then put them on our web 
store. 

367
00:20:59,900 --> 00:21:03,300
We send out a discount codes to 
backers your backers. 

368
00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:05,900
That say here's a hundred 
percent of this and then they go

369
00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:07,200
to the store. 
They check out. 

370
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:09,500
Maybe they grab a copy of all 
the blues as well, which is kind

371
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:13,600
of how it works for me, and then
we charge them shipping and they

372
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,000
kept their books. 
And it kind of is to grow the 

373
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,500
Salt Flats tour of time and make
it more of a place where a 

374
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,000
broader array of RPGs exist 
rather than stuff. 

375
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,300
It's like printed and 
distributed by myself. 

376
00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:30,000
So yeah that's something we're 
doing going forwards and setting

377
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,900
up a really slick. 
U.s. operation was an important 

378
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:36,400
part of that super happy to work
with the floating chair of that 

379
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,500
one. 
Great, great Zine store that you

380
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:39,900
should check out if you get a 
chance. 

381
00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:41,900
Absolutely. 
And I've definitely gone through

382
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:44,900
that process a couple times. 
I think the most recent one I 

383
00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:48,300
got was gutter punks from 
Christian icon, I think was the 

384
00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:51,000
last one that I think just 
actually got in a day or two 

385
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,300
ago, but but it's great. 
Yeah, it's go to website. 

386
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:56,000
In the code. 
And it says, if you also bought 

387
00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,600
one of these, check out this and
then that's where we got to go. 

388
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,300
Hey listen, it's like all the 
candy at the checkout. 

389
00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:06,200
Aisle in the gas station, you 
know, you're always going to 

390
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,800
grab a Snickers right there. 
Awesome. 

391
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,500
Ya gotta Punk's is like the 
third project we've done for 

392
00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:16,700
Christian. 
Now, we also did the reprint of.

393
00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:19,100
I forgot the name of the Fig and
starts with an A and several 

394
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:20,700
blogs. 
And we also do is Bergen crip 

395
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:23,800
book as well. 
And we've got two new ones, 

396
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,800
Beyonce. 
Hi and Apocrypha, which are 

397
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,200
going to The Printers tomorrow. 
So like soon and then we've also

398
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,900
got from his store, a bunch of 
other stuff as well. 

399
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,200
We've kind of done loads of 
printing. 

400
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,600
So like expanding the range of 
malt book stuff are able to 

401
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,000
offer by literally said to one 
person. 

402
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,000
He will print things for you 
because nasty its prolific 

403
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:50,200
machine of RPG production. 
Crazy looking for he's like 

404
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:56,600
what? 
Silicone over there it is. 

405
00:22:56,700 --> 00:23:04,600
That's the one Christian did it.
I have it just as back there, 

406
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,300
somewhere. 
Um, and then and then we get to 

407
00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:10,500
what is tell me if I'm 
completely wrong. 

408
00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:13,600
It's been your most successful 
crowdfunding project for so 

409
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,700
Muppets orbital Blues. 
Absolutely. 

410
00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:19,100
Yeah, I know over the place was 
the was the big one. 

411
00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:22,700
Yeah, yeah. 
Fantastic collaboration between 

412
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:26,400
myself out. 
Writer Sam Selene, an artist 

413
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,800
Josh Clark. 
Those two guys kind of brought 

414
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,500
the idea to me and said, hey, we
want to do best of buried in it.

415
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:35,800
Be kind of about self employment
in space and being depressed and

416
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,100
being cowboy, and it kind of 
being a riff on your bebop's, 

417
00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:46,400
your, your Cowboy Bebop 
specifically your fireflies, I 

418
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,300
guess as well. 
But and also, I guess since it 

419
00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:52,100
came out, the mandalorians kind 
of hit and that's been a similar

420
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:54,100
kind of space, Western I guess 
so. 

421
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:55,900
Yeah. 
That. 

422
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,100
Yeah. 
And yeah. 

423
00:23:58,100 --> 00:24:01,400
So it's a game about being sad 
in space you have a spaceship 

424
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:03,400
with a mortgage. 
You're never going to pay off 

425
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,400
your characters are mechanically
on able to become rich and the 

426
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,300
way you level up is you choose. 
So, I go to trouble at the start

427
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:13,300
of the game, which is the reason
you have depression. 

428
00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:16,800
And then by being sad and 
role-playing towards that 

429
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,600
trouble, you get experience 
points. 

430
00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:21,700
So sad for XP, and when you 
level up, you have to have an 

431
00:24:21,700 --> 00:24:23,400
emotional conversation with 
someone. 

432
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,900
Work out what's happening to you
or maybe just have a fight and 

433
00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:29,400
then get a bunch of mechanical 
bonuses. 

434
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,300
If you do decide to fight 
somebody and then level up and 

435
00:24:31,300 --> 00:24:32,600
choose a new reason to be 
depressed. 

436
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:38,900
So it's the whole creative 
experience and came with a 

437
00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:41,800
Wonderful soundtrack by my dear 
friend crisper set that we put 

438
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:46,100
in a cassette and a load of 
other like Josh's are. 

439
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,300
If you're not already, Googled 
orbital Blues upon me. 

440
00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:50,800
Explain it. 
But you don't know what it is. 

441
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,000
Go and don't click away from the
podcast keep listening. 

442
00:24:54,400 --> 00:25:00,000
But look it up because it's all 
the art is like Photo kit bashed

443
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,800
in a straightens and why it's so
fantastic. 

444
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,400
It's such a strong Vibe posters 
for bands that don't exist like 

445
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:15,500
space stations covered in like 
roadside Americana 1960s 

446
00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:21,500
advertising neon lights on the 
side of your spaceship like it's

447
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:25,900
a complete Vibe vest and like 
Very likely, you know, hits its 

448
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:31,800
those thieves of like stop to 
mental health and poverty and 

449
00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:36,200
these like disrupted cycles that
you have to escape from that. 

450
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,400
Maybe can't escape from but it's
still like a both a beautiful 

451
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,400
products and like a beautiful 
physical object. 

452
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,800
I mean and also like a 
heart-wrenching game that you 

453
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,900
can get to play that. 
I'm such an enormous fan of and 

454
00:25:50,900 --> 00:25:53,700
we've got more adventures coming
out for it. 

455
00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:57,400
I got the The PDF for the new 
one called a Shaker decide, are 

456
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:58,700
they today? 
Not sure. 

457
00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:00,500
I'm saying that right? 
Because my Portuguese isn't 

458
00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:04,300
great. 
We got a couple of Adventures 

459
00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:07,800
and then there's a new orbital 
police Kickstarter coming later 

460
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,300
this year that I don't know if I
can actually talk about weight. 

461
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,200
I'm in charge but he's like I 
need to check if my box and side

462
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,200
off the NDA. 
No, yeah, we're doing a new book

463
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,300
later this year. 
It's gonna be all about 

464
00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:25,700
spaceships. 
With a nice big chunky 

465
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:28,700
Adventurer and then maybe a few 
other bits. 

466
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,100
Well, I'm sure Ryan will back at
the highest here, that will get 

467
00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:34,800
the secret copy. 
That only five people get and 

468
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,900
I'll get the regular so we'll 
get there. 

469
00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:40,500
Well, no, you know, talk about 
the art to you, in addition, 

470
00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:42,900
there's the Wayward Stars book, 
which is like, just the art 

471
00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:46,200
book, which is such a good 
hunting thing to add to that 

472
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,000
specific project because the 
art, like the game mechanically 

473
00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:53,800
great, love it. 
But the Vibes that the art and 

474
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,700
the layout layout and everything
did the entire way through even 

475
00:26:56,700 --> 00:27:00,800
even the, the the GM screen 
with, like the the stuff laid 

476
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:06,400
out on a different top to bottom
like just exuded every theme 

477
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,600
from that game and such a 
masterful way. 

478
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,600
Like it's one of I think our 
favorite game is period. 

479
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,700
Especially you know, 
specifically talking about like 

480
00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,600
The Vibes in the way that the 
game itself is written to 

481
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:24,500
reinforce the way that the the 
system is played really Keeps 

482
00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:26,700
feeding back into itself in this
Loop that were yours. 

483
00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:29,000
Yes, at all the time and you 
just keep going forward. 

484
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,500
It's fantastic. 
That should just be, you know, 

485
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:34,200
some of its tagline should just 
be just like, here, the make you

486
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:39,600
cry and I know saddle, the 
website, just here to make you. 

487
00:27:39,608 --> 00:27:40,900
We haven't. 
We haven't we. 

488
00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:44,300
I've yet to come out of a tiger 
eye, but that sounds like a good

489
00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:49,400
one. 
Josh did sucks tremendously, 

490
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,100
fantastic. 
Work on the Arts and Sam. 

491
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,600
Also, to get a bunch of really 
great art direction that kind of

492
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:02,000
helped us from there and really 
set out the emotional feeling 

493
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,400
and Stakes of the game when it 
was written and like some of the

494
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,900
graphic design stuff with the 
game has also been really great 

495
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:08,900
for that. 
Kind of leads helps lean into 

496
00:28:08,900 --> 00:28:12,100
Josh's are and a book amplifies 
that into the writing for the 

497
00:28:12,108 --> 00:28:15,500
rest of the book, is the great 
work of low archivist as well. 

498
00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:18,300
Who I mentioned before having 
done some work on divers to. 

499
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,900
Yeah just do. 
It was such a just like I felt 

500
00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:25,800
like we Will own book like all 
together? 

501
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,000
And I felt like we'd been. 
We worked on it for like quite a

502
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,000
while but like almost 
immediately felt like an 

503
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,600
incredibly well oil team of 
everybody know what they were 

504
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,000
doing. 
The whole thing was just 

505
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,800
effortless to work on and so 
happy to get it into the hands 

506
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,100
of players. 
And here people enjoying the 

507
00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:47,000
game. 
And also looking at the just 

508
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,500
being awed by the book and the 
design of it, Wayward stars is 

509
00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:52,300
is definitely worth checking 
out. 

510
00:28:52,300 --> 00:28:55,700
I think it's probably one of of 
the most underappreciated books 

511
00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:58,000
in The Psalm of the catalog. 
In terms of the fact that that 

512
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,700
whole thing was Josh's work 
entirely salmon, I didn't touch 

513
00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:04,600
it. 
All of the writing, there's a 

514
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,700
bunch of like explanations about
how the art is put together with

515
00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:11,000
some right work-in-progress 
examples of where this images 

516
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,200
will come from. 
They were spliced together and 

517
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,900
also, like a bunch of new stuff 
you've not seen before some cut 

518
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:20,300
content and also like a bunch of
law that Josh wrote in it as 

519
00:29:20,308 --> 00:29:25,100
well. 
Because Josh is Josh has got 

520
00:29:25,100 --> 00:29:28,200
like a background in RPG writing
as well, but I can't constantly 

521
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:34,300
forget about it and has written 
a bunch of Star Wars Source 

522
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:37,800
books as well, that you should 
check out the around or 

523
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,100
sourcebook that tiny Woodsman 
did on Twitter. 

524
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:43,500
It's real read and it has a lot 
of the same kind of writing a 

525
00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:46,500
graphic design Clues, as over 
the boozes and I think secretly 

526
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,200
orbital Blues is probably a 
quite good. 

527
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,900
If you want to, if you are happy
to ignore the Jedi B there's 

528
00:29:52,900 --> 00:29:56,300
definitely A good Star Wars with
campaign done playing, I think 

529
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,700
you're indoors and your 
mandalorians pretty well I 

530
00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:01,900
reckon. 
Yeah, the holy is he not the 

531
00:30:01,900 --> 00:30:04,900
best Star Wars? 
Ignores all the Jedi bit sorrows

532
00:30:04,900 --> 00:30:07,400
with a forest is the best 
version of Star Wars. 

533
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,800
The contrast between the, I 
forgot the name of the 

534
00:30:14,808 --> 00:30:17,400
Mandalorian, the guy, Ginger, 
and or whatever? 

535
00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:21,400
Yeah. 
Any Wizards like on his like 

536
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,800
there is Sorcerers when the I 
like mystical sorceress by the 

537
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,500
time you get to lie, season, 3 
or whatever it is. 

538
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,800
I can find people with dark say,
when I'm out. 

539
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,300
Yeah. 
Now, this was, this is better 

540
00:30:31,300 --> 00:30:33,900
when it was just like, dude, 
running around and go up shit 

541
00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:36,100
over there. 
If you was my favorite Star War,

542
00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:38,300
you know. 
Yeah. 

543
00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:40,300
Blown what loan off and covers 
in the middle? 

544
00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:42,300
Orion was definitely or it 
wasn't. 

545
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:45,300
But yeah this this book one of 
the things you said that I 

546
00:30:45,308 --> 00:30:47,900
really love that. 
I first saw it was like the how 

547
00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:50,400
the art was put together and 
those pieces were talked about 

548
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,200
like where they source that and 
how it turned into be. 

549
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:59,200
Was just added even just another
layer to how beautiful all of 

550
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,100
orbital Blues was it was so cool
to see it. 

551
00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:02,900
Actually turn into that. 
As you said way words. 

552
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,600
This is such an amazing book. 
Obviously get orbital Blues but 

553
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,400
if there is still a wayward 
stars out there, you should 

554
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,400
absolutely grab that mean. 
It's fantastic that they're on 

555
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,700
sale in places, you can 
definitely get them on the so 

556
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:21,000
much for web store easy to find 
when I die for print and PDF on 

557
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,900
the soul Muppet store. 
There you go. 

558
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,500
And then you you guys did that 
um gosh 2020 2021. 

559
00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:34,000
It's your most successful 
project on Kickstarter but also 

560
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,900
was at the peak of, you know, 
the most recent apocalypse. 

561
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:40,200
Like, how was the process that 
I'm currently getting all of 

562
00:31:40,208 --> 00:31:43,000
that done working together 
actually? 

563
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,800
Getting that sent out during all
of that it was it was it was 

564
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,000
weird. 
I mean, production kind of 

565
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:58,800
stopped and like, A couple of us
were furloughed at the time. 

566
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:01,800
So there was a nice opportunity 
to like really spend a lot of 

567
00:32:01,808 --> 00:32:03,500
time working on it. 
This is great. 

568
00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:14,300
And the It was it was the 
logistics was a challenge. 

569
00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:16,400
Like the last couple of years 
have been almost too difficult 

570
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,300
for getting physical books to 
places shipping containers out. 

571
00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:22,900
China is still nightmarish 
production is difficult. 

572
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:26,400
Price of paper is ballooning 
constantly RPG books are like 

573
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,400
30% more expensive to make it 
and they were three years ago 

574
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:33,000
and you're not kind of seeing 
that in the prices yet because 

575
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,000
inflation for everything else is
still a bit. 

576
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,700
Weird and wage growth is 
stagnant. 

577
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,000
My economics background is 
coming out, but the fun thing is

578
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,400
that me Josh and Sam were all in
the same room for the first time

579
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,300
back in like November. 
So, like a year and two, two 

580
00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:51,500
years after we started working, 
maybe more because we started 

581
00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:54,200
booking 2020. 
So two, yeah, two and a half 

582
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,100
years after we first started 
working together creatively, we 

583
00:32:57,100 --> 00:32:58,700
actually met up in person 
because we are working on it 

584
00:32:58,708 --> 00:33:01,200
during the pandemic. 
So it wasn't possible. 

585
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,400
But yeah, now got great. 
It was a, you accept a great 

586
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,100
process to work on. 
The guys were so talented and 

587
00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:14,900
smart, and did such a good job 
of But I'm kind of happy to see 

588
00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:17,100
the people playing it in the 
wild and excited to bring more 

589
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:21,000
books out on that line because 
we certainly have lots of ideas 

590
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,700
and I'm definitely not talking 
about the super-secret fancy 

591
00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:26,600
thing that's going to go over 
top of the Pledge because that's

592
00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:30,400
going to be reversed can remain 
Under Wraps until you know like 

593
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,300
I'm definitely certain I can do 
it but it's going to be silly. 

594
00:33:33,900 --> 00:33:39,300
I'm excited more because I can't
wait for moreover the blues 

595
00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:42,800
kick-starting and then and going
from Your most successful 

596
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,600
project kick-starting. 
It wise orbital Blues to I 

597
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,700
believe is like the next most 
successful. 

598
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:50,000
You guys have is inevitable, 
which is game that's out right 

599
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,800
now. 
So like we go from sad Cowboys 

600
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:57,000
and space to Arthurian Western 
sad Cowboys talk about 

601
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,500
inevitable because this project 
looks absolutely stunning. 

602
00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:01,700
And from what I've read, I think
at least on Twitter. 

603
00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:03,500
This is something that you've 
been working on for quite a 

604
00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:07,100
while. 
Well, yes, so the first thing I 

605
00:34:07,100 --> 00:34:11,199
ever did creatively was read 
Stephen King's The Dark Tower. 

606
00:34:11,699 --> 00:34:16,800
I didn't decide I was going to 
make a was going to run a D&D 

607
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,400
Adventure, set in ASL, big 
desert. 

608
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,500
And then my players did want to 
play it and we decided to play. 

609
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,300
I think it was like SLA 
Industries or something. 

610
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:30,600
Instead, I was like, you know, 
why did I let you choose? 

611
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,699
What you just made, you run the 
thing I wanted. 

612
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,500
So I wrote a novel, I spent a 
year writing a novel, after I 

613
00:34:36,507 --> 00:34:39,100
finish University setting this 
setting and this would have been

614
00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:43,400
in 2017 now. 
So, six years ago, I wrote this 

615
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:48,000
thing. 
And so the pitch for the game is

616
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,100
that you guys are nights. 
And wizards and Priests, and 

617
00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:55,600
Gunslingers in service to the 
king of myth. 

618
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:01,300
Myth is the last, great 
civilization, inside, this big 

619
00:35:01,700 --> 00:35:04,700
desert called the baron and the 
world is shrinking. 

620
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:07,200
In a new, the apocalypse is on 
coming, and the world is 

621
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:13,500
beginning to unravel. 
In the game, the prophets, the 

622
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:16,800
kind of the people who can tell 
the future, who have perfect 

623
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,200
foresight of what is coming. 
Have said, myth will be 

624
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,100
destroyed. 
Your city will burn everyone who

625
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:29,000
does not portray, the king will 
die and that prophecy wants, his

626
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,100
told is inevitable. 
Which is why the name of the 

627
00:35:32,100 --> 00:35:36,700
game comes from your characters 
are basically trying to stop the

628
00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:40,500
apocalypse which means running 
around this desert dealing with 

629
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:44,200
all of these gun-slinging, 
Wizards and enormous dragons, 

630
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,100
and cannibal hordes and weird, 
magical artifacts, and Rebels. 

631
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:51,900
And traitors are people who 
forsaken, the king and decided 

632
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:58,500
to stake, their own claim upon 
the kingdom and Watching that 

633
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,300
happen, your Carriage is enough 
to stop it while knowing they're

634
00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:04,900
going to fail. 
And it kind of hits a lot of 

635
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:12,000
these Arthurian notes of like, 
impossible quests trying to do 

636
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,300
the best you can, like, virtue 
being called into question 

637
00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:19,800
because, like, one of the big 
actions, your coaches have to 

638
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:28,000
decide is how How much of your 
like Knighthood and chivalry? 

639
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,100
Are you going to try to preserve
in this apocalypse? 

640
00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:34,000
Because like if you do, if you 
try to do everything perfectly 

641
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,800
and be like a good night, you 
are going to fail, you're gonna 

642
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:43,300
have to break some rules to win.
So it's about like being in this

643
00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:45,200
impossible situation. 
We all know you're going to fail

644
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:50,100
and deciding what the mythology 
of your setting is going to be 

645
00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:56,200
and how things are going to end 
and sort of Making the stories 

646
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,300
by which your civilization will 
be remembered. 

647
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,900
So it hits a lot of huge Vibes 
in terms of like emotional notes

648
00:37:04,900 --> 00:37:08,300
and also like gorgeous 
Aesthetics, that you will mainly

649
00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:13,100
see our thanks to the incredible
work of art so you can find on 

650
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:15,300
the social medias in various 
forms. 

651
00:37:15,700 --> 00:37:21,100
These kind of, like, glorious 
washed-out sepia deserts with 

652
00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:26,100
these faded remnants of 
civilization, at least sort of a

653
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,500
This glowing beautiful magic 
that comes from the two twin 

654
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:34,500
moons of the setting. 
You can see in a bunch of the 

655
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:39,400
art and all of the imagery in 
the product design and 

656
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,000
everything we've done in this 
kind of in linking upon that 

657
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,000
art, it's the first a for books 
on what this is going to make. 

658
00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:50,700
It's much more of a story game 
than some of the stuff we've met

659
00:37:50,700 --> 00:37:53,300
before. 
If you sound like this thing 

660
00:37:53,300 --> 00:37:55,800
interest, you not only is there 
a Kickstarter, is also a three 

661
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,300
quick start that you can grab. 
That's Very folding beak, seen. 

662
00:38:00,300 --> 00:38:03,400
If you've come across while 
those before you can't out, use 

663
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,300
digitally grab that free on the 
summer web store. 

664
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:09,800
It's got about two to three 
sessions worth of stuff in it. 

665
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,700
And also, you can get a view for
the rules and make some 

666
00:38:13,700 --> 00:38:17,000
characters and have a good time 
doing that one. 

667
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:23,700
But yeah, that's the game in 
short, but it's for me, what 

668
00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:26,800
part of the big shift of how it 
appear creatively. 

669
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,400
So, I've written this novel. 
Oh and realized oh my God, 

670
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,000
novels are take a long time to 
write and also no one buys them 

671
00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:35,900
so and I don't want to work here
forever. 

672
00:38:35,900 --> 00:38:38,200
So I started making these 
role-playing games because best 

673
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,700
of Barry was kind of being 
developed alongside, it got 

674
00:38:40,700 --> 00:38:45,600
released July, 2018, 19, and 
then solar power has grown since

675
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,100
then. 
And in the background, I've been

676
00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:49,500
thinking. 
Well, how do I do the role 

677
00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:53,000
playing game for this setting? 
It's been in my head for so long

678
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,900
because like all of the Thematic
elements that appear in stuff. 

679
00:38:58,100 --> 00:39:00,800
By separate a lot ice like 
borrowed from the fantasy 

680
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,600
imagery of inevitable. 
So, for example, you announce 

681
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,900
yourself earlier is the foul 
handed, right? 

682
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,000
That's one of the wizard titles 
from heroic, see, one of the 

683
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,300
names for the Wizards. 
That's a, that's a that's 

684
00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:16,900
inevitable character. 
He's a dark wizard. 

685
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,300
Who sacrifices his hand to a 
demon? 

686
00:39:19,500 --> 00:39:22,300
And then instead has its lack of
obsidian coming out of his arm 

687
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,000
and he's one of the bad guys, 
one of the evil tower Wizards 

688
00:39:26,300 --> 00:39:31,400
inside the Inside one of the 
dudes, which called the sky 

689
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,400
castle and there's loads of 
imagery and stuff borrowed from 

690
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,400
there. 
A lot of those titles are stolen

691
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:41,300
like the concept of a godsman, 
which is one of the classes in 

692
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,000
better Farid, right? 
It habitable class as well and 

693
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,600
that's borrowed from better 
Perry's rather than the other 

694
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,900
which I better break, boras it 
from inevitable rather than the 

695
00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:52,600
other way around. 
Because for ages I've been 

696
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,600
thinking about how to make this 
thing possible like approach it 

697
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,400
with a I mean, speaking bluntly 
like a budget with which I'm 

698
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:06,200
willing to make the thing that 
has been rattling around in my 

699
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,900
head for like, six years appear 
and is like what I think about 

700
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:13,800
when I close my eyes because the
all the themes are around it to 

701
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:22,600
do with chivalry and kind of 
acting in a situation where you 

702
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,600
know you're going to lose and 
you know you're going to fail 

703
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,900
and it's a no-win scenario and 
just like trying to deal with 

704
00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:32,300
that is like, What I've actually
been writing games about, for 

705
00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:33,900
this time. 
Because the gimmick of the book 

706
00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:37,800
is that the characters in it, 
the kind of protagonist of the 

707
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,100
three or four cart main 
characters in his party of 

708
00:40:40,100 --> 00:40:42,800
adventurers, knew how they were 
going to die. 

709
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:46,900
And what kind of reacting to 
that? 

710
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,700
Emotionally and kind of going to
die here. 

711
00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:54,800
Do I reject that possibility? 
Do I do? 

712
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,000
I embrace it it's get on with 
it. 

713
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,400
Am I going to like it? 
If I know I'm going to die here 

714
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,200
do I just try to get myself 
killed elsewhere because I don't

715
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,600
want to die here like dealing 
with the fact that things are 

716
00:41:03,607 --> 00:41:05,300
happening about in a 
role-playing game. 

717
00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:08,200
Unless it's a super tight and 
scripted scoring game is very 

718
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,900
difficult to precisely foretell.
The end of characters because 

719
00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:14,200
storytelling is emerging in a 
game, right? 

720
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,100
Whereas if what we're deciding 
is the thing we know is going to

721
00:41:17,100 --> 00:41:21,100
happen is Instead of people, 
it's a place, it's a thing. 

722
00:41:21,100 --> 00:41:23,400
It's an idea that we know will 
be destroyed. 

723
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,300
Is that a case of like finding 
out what that story looks like? 

724
00:41:28,300 --> 00:41:30,500
Which has many more options and 
is not scripted. 

725
00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:35,300
And yeah if you play the whole 
thing you can spend two years 

726
00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:42,000
destroying our Camelot Gilead 
proxy and play through all of 

727
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,200
this wizard stuff. 
And the play test campaign, we 

728
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:49,800
ran went for about 12 months and
did half the content in the 

729
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,400
book. 
Did three of the six doomed, 

730
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,700
like the Churchill, Big Bad Evil
guys that could destroy them. 

731
00:41:56,700 --> 00:42:01,200
Right? 
And it was amazing. 

732
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,500
It went really well and then we 
kind of decided to play 

733
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:07,000
something else on a Wednesday 
night because it was getting 

734
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,100
real heavy. 
It's getting tough. 

735
00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:11,400
Yeah. 
Hello getting all emotional. 

736
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:16,500
Yeah, so this is like this is 
like a very Pinnacle you game. 

737
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,900
Are they this fish? 
I mean this is like so on like 

738
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:25,000
orbital Blues. 
I was a co-creator and I did the

739
00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:26,900
right thing. 
But mainly my job there was a 

740
00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:29,600
project manager and kind of 
helping other people get the 

741
00:42:29,607 --> 00:42:31,500
best out there. 
I wrote something static Annex 

742
00:42:31,500 --> 00:42:35,200
like for example the troubles 
and the spaceship combat will 

743
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,400
like the main things that my 
head was filled with pain 

744
00:42:38,900 --> 00:42:43,700
whereas this book is like 
entirely through written by me 

745
00:42:43,700 --> 00:42:46,700
no one else touched it. 
I mean that there's some been 

746
00:42:46,700 --> 00:42:49,100
some bits of Croatian. 
I've had some help from my 

747
00:42:49,100 --> 00:42:53,900
friends, but like I wrote 95% of
his manuscript and it is the 

748
00:42:53,900 --> 00:42:57,500
thing that has been lurking 
around in the back of my head. 

749
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,300
Since I wrote that book, six 
years and working out how I can 

750
00:43:02,300 --> 00:43:05,500
turn that into something that 
people can enjoy. 

751
00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:12,600
And so the ideas of it and the 
themes it's like I think it 

752
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,200
would be the biggest thing I 
write for a really long time and

753
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,300
I think I do this. 
I'm probably go back to mainly 

754
00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:21,500
project managing and kind of 
working with other people 

755
00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:24,500
because these games they take a 
long time to write for me 

756
00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:26,600
because I get a couple of hours 
a week to do writing. 

757
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,200
So writing a 6070 thousand word 
book. 

758
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:36,400
It's like tremendously difficult
for me and you know I think it 

759
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,700
will be this will be me for a 
while. 

760
00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:39,900
I've got some more stuff planned
in the future that I want to 

761
00:43:39,908 --> 00:43:46,100
write but Yeah this this is like
the this is this is this isn't 

762
00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:49,100
some up its game. 
This is like my game removing 

763
00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:52,300
myself away from and it is like 
a very solemn up. 

764
00:43:52,300 --> 00:43:55,000
It s game and it exemplifies. 
All the things that I think of 

765
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,300
it themes of what I get a look 
like, yeah well it's interesting

766
00:43:59,300 --> 00:44:02,300
that this is one of the first 
things that you did and then 

767
00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:07,100
when you look at what so Muppet 
did after that and in retrospect

768
00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:11,200
a lot of it seems to have been 
inspired by that to go. 

769
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:14,100
Like that at the beginning to 
now getting it afterwards. 

770
00:44:14,100 --> 00:44:18,000
It's such a it's interesting to 
see the entire catalog of so 

771
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,900
Muppet. 
And then hear about, you know, 

772
00:44:19,900 --> 00:44:23,000
your history with this game 
specifically and it's awesome 

773
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,200
that we've hit this point now 
where it can get get, put out 

774
00:44:28,900 --> 00:44:30,000
one quick question. 
I had. 

775
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,600
So the logo for the game and the
colors of the dice, all that is 

776
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,200
that the two moons? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

777
00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:40,300
No. 
Those are the two moves 

778
00:44:40,300 --> 00:44:41,600
together. 
So I think you might be To see 

779
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,400
on the screen right now. 
Look how it's gone away. 

780
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,900
Now the it's the two moons which
are called constants and Ezra, I

781
00:44:47,900 --> 00:44:49,400
think well, I know, I don't 
think. 

782
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:50,600
I know that's what they're 
called. 

783
00:44:50,700 --> 00:44:52,200
One of them is orange. 
One of his greed, they are. 

784
00:44:52,207 --> 00:44:54,200
We're like magic and prophecy 
comes from. 

785
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:59,200
And also in that design, they 
are specifically the ends of 

786
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,300
bullets from revolver. 
So, one of the big things in the

787
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:07,000
setting is that you can get like
muskets or fire tubes, we call 

788
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,300
them, but if you have a fancy 
gun, it is made by a wizard and 

789
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:15,400
So, they scream, they were all 
they shoot magic light at 

790
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,800
people. 
They're all named with 

791
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,500
pretentious names by Wizards 
with their pointy hats up their 

792
00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:25,300
asses. 
So, you know, and the cover for 

793
00:45:25,300 --> 00:45:27,100
the book. 
Oh, yeah. 

794
00:45:27,100 --> 00:45:30,300
And they also have like, weird 
Magic Bullets that are made from

795
00:45:30,500 --> 00:45:35,000
very specific, Relic material. 
So you have a wizard that's like

796
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:40,100
from the bullets made from the 
bones of a dragon or like 

797
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:46,300
gunpowder I made from the 
powdered bricks of arrivals 

798
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:49,800
Castle, right? 
Aw like stuff involving like 

799
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,800
blood or viscera or tears, or 
Moonlight or all these kind of 

800
00:45:53,808 --> 00:45:55,800
like weird. 
We've got loads of tables in the

801
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,200
book for generating, a magic 
gun. 

802
00:45:57,500 --> 00:46:00,900
And then the other thing that 
the logo is, is they are the 

803
00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:03,900
basis of bullets. 
They're like the rings of a 

804
00:46:03,908 --> 00:46:06,800
bullet that gets fired from one 
of these magic handguns, and one

805
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,000
of the silly things that you can
buy you back the kickstarter. 

806
00:46:10,300 --> 00:46:14,100
It's that Ask that. 
So, I don't know if you guys saw

807
00:46:14,100 --> 00:46:18,100
the dice on the dye project, 
that will like the magic glass 

808
00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:21,400
ones that have magic inside 
them. 

809
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,000
They were made by our incredible
friends Level Up dice and I said

810
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,200
to them, hey, guys, I need some 
advice for this new game. 

811
00:46:27,300 --> 00:46:30,000
What can you do so that we've 
got what devices that are the 

812
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,600
moons. 
They were a no-brainer. 

813
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,700
We got some red indices. 
Well you don't want to spend one

814
00:46:33,700 --> 00:46:37,100
or ten quite of a single D6 and 
the final thing I said could we 

815
00:46:37,100 --> 00:46:38,800
get some dice that look like 
bullets. 

816
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:46,700
Yeah, so what we've got It is a 
set of I think they're like 60 

817
00:46:46,700 --> 00:46:49,400
caliber bullets, because they're
like 15 millimeters across, 

818
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,100
maybe 65. 
Actually, we're just like and 

819
00:46:53,100 --> 00:46:56,000
they're about 3 cm long. 
So they're the type of bullets, 

820
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,000
you would specifically use in 
the real world for shooting, 

821
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,000
like, rhinos or Elephants or 
something and they're made of 

822
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:06,300
brass and we scratched Pips in 
them and they are you something 

823
00:47:06,300 --> 00:47:08,800
you can and if you really want 
to spend stupid money, which I 

824
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,200
wouldn't recommend, frankly. 
No personal need this many guys.

825
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:15,300
We have my full set of six 
wizard, bullet dice. 

826
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,800
Mmm. 
Yeah, we will then put in some 

827
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:23,000
kind of box or a cylinder. 
Possibly we're working it out, 

828
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,300
but it's going to be silly. 
And that's what I basically, 

829
00:47:27,500 --> 00:47:31,100
this whole bit of the project. 
It's been like, what fun stuff 

830
00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:38,600
can we offer that people might 
enjoy and like just make shit 

831
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,300
that makes me gleefully joyful 
as the Publisher and then other 

832
00:47:42,300 --> 00:47:44,700
people might like it as well. 
That's like, what I tend to 

833
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:46,700
shoot for. 
If somebody gave the making me 

834
00:47:46,700 --> 00:47:51,300
excited, I sure as hell know 
that the sum up it so my pit 

835
00:47:51,300 --> 00:47:54,000
enjoy as out. 
There will enjoy it as well so I

836
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,100
can't imagine I can't name a 
single person who's definitely 

837
00:47:57,100 --> 00:48:01,400
going to jump on that at all. 
I don't know anyone so I didn't 

838
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,300
get the die set and the bullet I
said all I didn't go back and 

839
00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:07,100
have that as soon as a job 
doesn't add on no not at all you

840
00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:13,100
know and like I said and all 
three covers already so This is 

841
00:48:13,100 --> 00:48:17,000
definitely definitely an 
expensive backing here on 

842
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,000
Kickstarter. 
I mean like I highly recommend 

843
00:48:20,700 --> 00:48:22,200
you know obviously we're going 
to go over this one with it, 

844
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,000
eventually comes out but this 
project sounds absolutely 

845
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,500
amazing. 
Like I said yeah huge fans of so

846
00:48:27,500 --> 00:48:28,900
Muppet. 
We've done a bunch of the games 

847
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:32,300
from the show. 
The themes that kind of like the

848
00:48:32,300 --> 00:48:34,900
through line, through all the 
stuff that you guys put out is 

849
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,900
absolutely fantastic. 
And this sounds like I guess 

850
00:48:37,900 --> 00:48:40,200
both a prequel and combination 
of a lot of the things that you 

851
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,600
guys have done and it It seems 
like an absolutely amazing 

852
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,400
project and I'm glad I love when
there's like, little extra added

853
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,500
stuff at the end. 
I mean, clearly I have to get 

854
00:48:48,500 --> 00:48:51,700
like, you know, every version of
everything that you guys do. 

855
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:54,800
But, you know, I'm glad that 
there's three covers and bullet 

856
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,900
Dice and all this stuff. 
You know the Vibes that sum up. 

857
00:48:57,900 --> 00:49:00,900
It puts out with their games are
fantastic. 

858
00:49:00,900 --> 00:49:03,100
And when you can get something 
like orbital blues that has the 

859
00:49:03,100 --> 00:49:06,500
art book, you can get the the 
tape with the soundtrack for it.

860
00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:10,200
And with this you can get bullet
dice with your sad you know, 

861
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:15,800
western or Every in a character 
that it's a fantastic to have 

862
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:21,500
all of the things that really 
make you dive into the style of 

863
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:26,500
play, that was kind of written 
into the book that you're hoping

864
00:49:26,500 --> 00:49:29,100
to have people experience. 
So all of those things just 

865
00:49:29,100 --> 00:49:32,400
continue to add onto it. 
And and so Muppet, just as a 

866
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,900
publisher and as a writer has 
been, it's been a joy to follow 

867
00:49:36,900 --> 00:49:39,600
you guys for quite a while with 
all the stuff that you put out. 

868
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,800
It's really fantastic, huh? 
Tent. 

869
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:43,500
Thank you. 
Glad you enjoyed it. 

870
00:49:43,700 --> 00:49:45,900
How are ya really hope this 
Kickstarter makes? 

871
00:49:45,900 --> 00:49:48,200
You know? 
Yeah, it's only. 

872
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:56,500
Yeah, I like it. 
It seems to me that we like, 

873
00:49:56,500 --> 00:50:00,900
obviously I don't like all that 
stuff where it's like, oh we're 

874
00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:03,500
like seven thousand percent fun.
They don't want to come on. 

875
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:04,600
Man. 
That's not how much the book 

876
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,000
actually cost you to make it 
like, put make a realistic goal.

877
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,900
They're obviously going to hit 
in 25 minutes, you know, that's 

878
00:50:10,900 --> 00:50:12,600
what we did. 
Did like the last couple product

879
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,300
you've done it been like, 
actually, what it cost us to 

880
00:50:15,300 --> 00:50:18,000
make the books as the start line
because I think it's dishonest 

881
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,900
to do anything less and you know
maybe that's resulted in some 

882
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:24,400
projects that maybe didn't 
fondled A1 like I wanted but 

883
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,100
it's important but you know but 
yeah this one's been such a 

884
00:50:27,100 --> 00:50:29,300
success. 
I'm so happy for the support of 

885
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,100
all of the, all the, all the 
fans out there and all the 

886
00:50:33,100 --> 00:50:34,700
people enjoying all the west and
stuff. 

887
00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:37,700
And it's just been like The same
things kind of happen with all 

888
00:50:37,707 --> 00:50:41,000
the players wear, like and I 
think going to toss it as well. 

889
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,200
A couple people are just like, 
yeah, this this this was made 

890
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:48,100
this was this was carved like a 
fucking dance to hit. 

891
00:50:48,100 --> 00:50:51,500
Exactly. 
Personally me because of the 

892
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:56,700
fact that what I try to make 
games that are like drenched 

893
00:50:56,700 --> 00:51:00,900
with Vibes, like the whole thing
just comes off there and that is

894
00:51:01,300 --> 00:51:05,500
something you can see in orbital
booze and best that buried in 

895
00:51:05,500 --> 00:51:07,900
Hangzhou. 
The city and inevitable and all 

896
00:51:07,900 --> 00:51:09,100
the other stuff to do, 
basically. 

897
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,200
Yeah, and for those that haven't
read the kickstarter yet for 

898
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:21,500
inevitable, are there, you know,
you guys love to d6s which 

899
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:24,200
listen, I'm a huge fan is, my 
favorite is my favorite dice to 

900
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:29,600
roll is inevitable. 
A lot like the other games that 

901
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,800
you have written on some up it. 
So if people have played them 

902
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,900
before, they'll be similar, or 
is it a completely different 

903
00:51:34,900 --> 00:51:37,800
system than you guys put 
together using white, the best 

904
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,900
afraid orbital, whose energy, 
but I just couldn't get it to 

905
00:51:39,900 --> 00:51:42,600
hit. 
So, one of the, it's kind of a 

906
00:51:42,607 --> 00:51:45,300
slightly different structure, it
does still use D6 because like, 

907
00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:48,100
I'm a pretty strong believer in 
D6, based games. 

908
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,300
I like, I feel like games should
use the dice that people have at

909
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:57,400
home, and having dice should be 
like, dying should be something 

910
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:58,600
cool. 
You can get if you want to like 

911
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,100
support the Creator, do 
something cool. 

912
00:52:00,100 --> 00:52:01,800
Rather than like to play this 
game. 

913
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,800
You need like ten special Dyson.
Will have different faces on the

914
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,000
pitch. 
Like that's all you need a 

915
00:52:06,008 --> 00:52:08,700
deeper teen or whatever. 
I want people to be able to play

916
00:52:08,700 --> 00:52:10,400
this thing using them in, 
Lockheed I stand. 

917
00:52:10,900 --> 00:52:12,800
Right? 
Will worst comes to worst if 

918
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,500
that's what you got hanging off.
The engine is like really 

919
00:52:16,500 --> 00:52:20,200
different in the like we're not 
trying to tell that kind of 

920
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,500
story. 
It's not about it works on a 

921
00:52:23,500 --> 00:52:26,000
bigger scale as well, right? 
Because when you're playing 

922
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,300
orbital Blues investors, buried 
and better braid. 

923
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,400
The most complicated thing 
you're going to do is combat, 

924
00:52:30,500 --> 00:52:33,100
right? 
Where your characters are in 

925
00:52:33,100 --> 00:52:37,000
this kind of desperate situation
where we've gone Zorn eyes or 

926
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,800
swords in a tunnel on a 
spaceship and fucking how long, 

927
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,200
I don't know. 
You have this really tensed her 

928
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,200
situation by everything by the 
second matters but the 

929
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:50,000
characters inevitable are like 
He is more powerful than 

930
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,500
anything that would happen at 
best separate all the Caboose, 

931
00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:53,100
right. 
Okay. 

932
00:52:53,100 --> 00:52:57,400
Your most powerful like 
narrative, I mean in the within 

933
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,300
the setting, like the first the 
inevitable characters, which 

934
00:53:01,300 --> 00:53:03,200
don't get stronger. 
They kind of actually get worse 

935
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,500
as time goes on because their 
reputation change would like 

936
00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:08,900
wipe the floor with anything but
an absolute top. 

937
00:53:08,900 --> 00:53:12,800
Tier best that very character. 
We know you need like seven or 

938
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,800
eight advancements for. 
We could do the equivalent stuff

939
00:53:15,700 --> 00:53:17,300
and so it needed a complete 
different of you. 

940
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,800
Because we're not telling a 
story about like guys in tunnels

941
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:25,200
of knives, we're telling a story
about like the heroes of 

942
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,300
civilizations try to stop 
inevitable apocalypses. 

943
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,400
It gets like Godlike forces, so 
it is actually a completely 

944
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,300
different engine. 
There's two main types of role 

945
00:53:34,300 --> 00:53:36,200
you can do it if you kind of 
want to know a bit more about 

946
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,300
this mechanics, I would 
recommend checking out the 

947
00:53:38,308 --> 00:53:43,100
kickstarter if you feel like 
that so you can handle they tend

948
00:53:43,100 --> 00:53:46,600
to be really simple and like we 
tend to abstract scenes to 

949
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:48,300
single dice. 
Roles, rather than going 

950
00:53:48,300 --> 00:53:52,200
blow-by-blow in kind of combats 
or sarios in a challenge, which 

951
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,200
is kind. 
So, but you go through how it 

952
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,900
works in kind of total each 
session or so is made of 

953
00:53:57,900 --> 00:53:59,400
something we call a quest, 
right? 

954
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:00,900
Which is you want to go 
somewhere? 

955
00:54:00,900 --> 00:54:02,600
You want to do something, you 
want to stop this person? 

956
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,600
You want to meet this. 
Will find this thing or do an 

957
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:08,700
objective and that has a threat 
score. 

958
00:54:08,700 --> 00:54:10,600
And you're trying to gather 
these thing called Showdown 

959
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:17,000
tokens, which are used in the 
final Encounter of the Of the 

960
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,900
quest, notice a showdown. 
The way you get these tokens is 

961
00:54:20,900 --> 00:54:23,100
that when something dangerous 
happens or something that the 

962
00:54:23,100 --> 00:54:25,000
outcome is in question, you 
roll. 

963
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,900
So I'm going to challenge you 
basically assemble a D6 dice 

964
00:54:28,900 --> 00:54:31,700
pool by running down a list of 
questions. 

965
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,000
If you're kind of like a 
seasoned RPG player, this 

966
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,300
probably looks most like a blade
to the dark engagement roll. 

967
00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:40,700
You come across that before 
where we ask a couple questions 

968
00:54:40,700 --> 00:54:44,400
about the situation but it's to 
do with the character the forces

969
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,500
against them and then Some of 
their equipments, and what we 

970
00:54:47,500 --> 00:54:50,200
call reputations, which is a big
part of the inevitable, couch 

971
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,300
question. 
Your character basically doesn't

972
00:54:52,300 --> 00:54:56,500
have any stats Associated of 
them, they have three words, 

973
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,000
which are going to be something 
like you character. 

974
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:03,900
Might be dashing, gracious and 
skilled, right? 

975
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,400
And those are words or 
reputations that you can then 

976
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,100
apply to a test when take it, 
right? 

977
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,900
That's how you get your dice and
those things change over play. 

978
00:55:16,300 --> 00:55:19,400
As your characters like because 
these aren't actually like a 

979
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,600
measure of what your character 
does physically. 

980
00:55:21,700 --> 00:55:24,200
It's more about what they known 
for and how people talk about 

981
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,600
them in the stories, what their 
reputation are court or around, 

982
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,100
like you're Dusty campfires, 
where they Trade songs and 

983
00:55:30,100 --> 00:55:33,300
stories, because a lot of bars 
in the setting tail leave as we 

984
00:55:33,300 --> 00:55:36,600
call them, because it's all 
about legend Legends, right? 

985
00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:39,500
And it's how the characters 
going to be remembered and they 

986
00:55:39,500 --> 00:55:42,700
change over time these 
reputations, as they get eroded 

987
00:55:42,700 --> 00:55:45,200
and things happen. 
In play, that causes reputations

988
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,500
to move about. 
Out, once you've done a couple 

989
00:55:47,500 --> 00:55:49,800
of these challenges are kind of 
dealt with a consequences of 

990
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,200
what happens, you kind of get to
the end of your episode, which 

991
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:57,700
is the quest, right? 
And then you have a climactic 

992
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,400
showdown. 
We call it against, whatever. 

993
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,600
The thing that stopped you from 
achieving that questions. 

994
00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:06,000
This might be a gunfight, might 
be a debate, it might be a 

995
00:56:06,008 --> 00:56:08,500
battle, it might be a test of 
strength or something. 

996
00:56:08,500 --> 00:56:12,300
But what is then the case is 
that one character kind of 

997
00:56:12,300 --> 00:56:15,800
enters a scene and says I'm 
leading this showdown and then 

998
00:56:16,100 --> 00:56:20,300
Static music plays tumbleweeds 
fly across the screen. 

999
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:25,400
And, you know, people, you know,
got their caps to block out the 

1000
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:26,900
sunlight, you know, whatever 
happens. 

1001
00:56:26,900 --> 00:56:31,200
It gets very Western and then 
you basically, they can enter a 

1002
00:56:31,207 --> 00:56:34,700
negotiation with your GM about 
what it is that you are prepared

1003
00:56:34,700 --> 00:56:38,700
to lose while facing this enemy 
and then you negotiate 

1004
00:56:38,700 --> 00:56:42,000
consequence and the bigger 
consequence you are prepared to 

1005
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,600
suffer while in this this 
inevitable consequence between 0

1006
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,500
by 4. 
The prophecy will occur to you. 

1007
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,900
The bigger bonus you get from 
this check, and then you roll a 

1008
00:56:51,908 --> 00:56:53,700
dice. 
You kind of are comparing this 

1009
00:56:53,700 --> 00:56:56,700
against a couple numbers matter 
currencies, you basically earned

1010
00:56:56,700 --> 00:56:59,600
by doing all these challenges 
previously during the session 

1011
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,800
and that brings it down to one, 
incredibly come back, take dice 

1012
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,300
roll. 
Where you either saw past the 

1013
00:57:06,300 --> 00:57:08,600
difficulty of just complete, it 
doesn't happen. 

1014
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:13,400
Very often you meet the 
consequences and you meet with 

1015
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:17,900
the kind of rating you need and 
then something bad happens along

1016
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,500
the You know, add to your 
character as this thing happens,

1017
00:57:22,500 --> 00:57:26,200
all you failed completely and 
then that consequence happens 

1018
00:57:26,300 --> 00:57:28,900
and you have to do the same 
thing again, but probably have 

1019
00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:31,000
to offer something bigger 
because you need more bonuses, 

1020
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,000
right? 
So you end up with these 

1021
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,000
disaster scenarios, where you're
facing off against these 

1022
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,200
incredibly powerful climactic 
enemies and kind of. 

1023
00:57:39,500 --> 00:57:41,900
Now I've built this structure 
for inevitable. 

1024
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:47,700
I'm now looking at other stories
I could use this engine to tell,

1025
00:57:47,700 --> 00:57:50,300
but I like less. 
Softer in Western theme because 

1026
00:57:50,300 --> 00:57:55,400
it feels like a very potent 
storytelling method of kind of 

1027
00:57:55,600 --> 00:58:00,800
building up to these, you know, 
big ridiculous battles or 

1028
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,000
scenarios or debates of the end 
of the thing. 

1029
00:58:03,100 --> 00:58:06,900
And then a campaign, like, one 
of these six dudes is like, a 

1030
00:58:06,908 --> 00:58:11,800
series of quests where each one 
of the showdowns at the end of 

1031
00:58:11,808 --> 00:58:15,100
the session is kind of like the 
challenge and the smaller Quest 

1032
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,100
and that gets you some bonuses 
that you then use in a final 

1033
00:58:18,100 --> 00:58:19,800
confrontation. 
Tatian against that doom. 

1034
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,200
And then you do between one and 
six of them over the cost for 

1035
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:28,900
the campaign and those little 
quests act as challenges in the 

1036
00:58:28,900 --> 00:58:30,300
bigger things. 
It's kind of like a sort of 

1037
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,800
concert Enid, collection of 
quests and big showdowns against

1038
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:40,500
dramatic and Facilities. 
So, it's a very different engine

1039
00:58:40,700 --> 00:58:44,800
to the kind of stuff we've met 
before in the same way that 

1040
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:48,200
cancer. 
Yeah, completely silhouetted in 

1041
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,600
the same way that gangs like the
city we should go to be talking 

1042
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:55,100
about a bit has like a very 
different engine, two orbitals 

1043
00:58:55,100 --> 00:59:00,300
and better buried. 
I kind of knew that it needed a 

1044
00:59:00,308 --> 00:59:01,800
different thing. 
It was telling a very different 

1045
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,100
type of story. 
It didn't make sense for the 

1046
00:59:04,100 --> 00:59:05,600
same. 
Leave us to be that we treat. 

1047
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,600
Nick tried writing it as a best 
left buried like game using the 

1048
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,800
engine and we just ignore it 
doesn't work because like to me 

1049
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:17,800
the brand of Soul map, it is 
nothing to do with how many D6 

1050
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,500
is it uses and what the three 
stats are. 

1051
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:23,800
And the fact that gripple Vigor 
or whatever is interesting 

1052
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:29,000
mechanic it's thematic, but it's
how the thing feels to look at. 

1053
00:59:29,100 --> 00:59:35,100
And Read and play rather than 
trying to hamstring a certain 

1054
00:59:35,100 --> 00:59:39,700
engine into a different license.
We've managed to acquire not 

1055
00:59:39,700 --> 00:59:44,500
trying to row names are other 
options you Publishers but you 

1056
00:59:44,500 --> 00:59:48,200
know very much about me 
understanding that in the same 

1057
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,100
way, that not every rrd. 
Game is something in the 

1058
00:59:50,107 --> 00:59:53,700
resistance engine, like heart 
inspire me, different things, 

1059
00:59:53,700 --> 00:59:56,400
and they're willing to adapt 
those games to make them sensor 

1060
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,300
when the new book that I'm 
definitely not allowed. 

1061
00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:03,400
Talk about in that series 
appears that will use the same 

1062
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,400
engine, but then a different way
versus other things that just 

1063
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,400
look completely different. 
Because I'm not, I don't want to

1064
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,100
let the, the way a game is 
played or written be like, 

1065
01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:17,900
subscribe to what, how many D6 
the game used before, you know, 

1066
01:00:18,300 --> 01:00:19,200
right. 
Yeah. 

1067
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:23,100
But it's but it sounds like 
inevitable is, you know, games 

1068
01:00:23,100 --> 01:00:26,700
are taken city is different than
best left buried, but it sounds 

1069
01:00:26,700 --> 01:00:29,300
like an inevitable is like like 
degree. 

1070
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,300
Freeze different as opposed to 
the other engines because you 

1071
01:00:32,300 --> 01:00:35,800
know the your best a inaudible 
lose have the to D6 B. 

1072
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:37,700
It's a little bit different it's
not like a mixed success. 

1073
01:00:37,700 --> 01:00:40,100
Kingston cities more of like the
post pvta. 

1074
01:00:40,100 --> 01:00:44,700
Make success and Equitable seems
much more Clyde like like I 

1075
01:00:44,707 --> 01:00:48,000
understand like climactic and 
has these like I you know I 

1076
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,400
imagine scenes from a show as 
you're talking that, like I feel

1077
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,000
like I need to go on Spotify and
find somebody that made like 

1078
01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:56,700
medieval western music. 
There has to be some type of 

1079
01:00:56,700 --> 01:01:00,700
like, spaghetti western but with
like Type of flute going in it 

1080
01:01:00,700 --> 01:01:03,200
or something. 
Like there has to be somewhere. 

1081
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,900
So I'm looking at the chat and 
I'm seeing somebody asked, we 

1082
01:01:07,900 --> 01:01:10,400
got to know Zach's favorite Dark
Tower novel. 

1083
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,000
It is. 
This is a wizard and coasst 

1084
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,000
game. 
If you know your dark Towers, 

1085
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,300
the fourth one, where they have 
the flashback and they go back 

1086
01:01:19,300 --> 01:01:24,100
to Mase, that's the one that 
this one /, this book 

1087
01:01:24,100 --> 01:01:30,200
specifically is like, living 
with The kind of the world of 

1088
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:35,500
like The Dark Tower up to the 
Battle of Jericho Hill and liked

1089
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:37,800
Jericho Hill, is where this 
campaign would end. 

1090
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,900
And then maybe eventually I'll 
write a roleplay game about 

1091
01:01:41,900 --> 01:01:44,600
playing survivors of the 
apocalypse and that would be 

1092
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,900
maybe more Dark Tower, 
Gunslinger e. 

1093
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,000
But at the moment. 
Yeah, this is a wizard and grass

1094
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,900
or PG but my favorite book is 
the waste land. 

1095
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,000
No. 
Is it is it? 

1096
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,700
They're all good. 
I also did. 

1097
01:01:57,900 --> 01:02:02,100
Howard pills, you guys are but 
if I also do there's also a song

1098
01:02:02,100 --> 01:02:05,500
of Susannah Easter egg in it now
where I wrote myself into 

1099
01:02:05,500 --> 01:02:08,500
inevitable because I got 
retweeted too many times and 

1100
01:02:08,500 --> 01:02:13,000
Twitter while I was drunk. 
I agreed to do it and perfect. 

1101
01:02:13,300 --> 01:02:17,400
Jelly monster is now somewhere 
within the the inevitable book 

1102
01:02:17,900 --> 01:02:19,900
that's very fast. 
It's definitely gonna ask about 

1103
01:02:19,900 --> 01:02:22,100
that. 
The 250 retweets and now you're 

1104
01:02:22,100 --> 01:02:25,100
in your own book that you wrote 
and in turn into a game. 

1105
01:02:25,500 --> 01:02:29,300
That's awesome. 
Is everybody that gets the core 

1106
01:02:29,300 --> 01:02:32,700
book, going to find you at some 
point in there, or is this like 

1107
01:02:32,700 --> 01:02:34,600
a secret hidden thing? 
Oh no. 

1108
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:36,800
I mean I've got I've got, I've 
got it honor, I've got it on my 

1109
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,700
pledges. 
It's in there, specifically, 

1110
01:02:39,700 --> 01:02:42,700
kind of the way it looks. 
I think I can I can announce 

1111
01:02:42,700 --> 01:02:43,500
this. 
I'm in charge. 

1112
01:02:44,700 --> 01:02:47,800
There's like a sort of 
suggestion that the only way to 

1113
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:52,300
save the world is to actually 
there's two other ways I won't 

1114
01:02:52,300 --> 01:02:54,800
spoil because they are quite 
metic but there's an argument in

1115
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,100
it that like if you if your 
Cowboys He's from this world, 

1116
01:02:58,100 --> 01:03:02,900
what you reach the planet Earth,
and convince me Zachary Cox to 

1117
01:03:03,300 --> 01:03:07,300
not make it such a tragic ending
that you can't win then, like 

1118
01:03:07,500 --> 01:03:09,800
maybe it would be possible to 
save your kingdom. 

1119
01:03:11,500 --> 01:03:14,600
Wouldn't be the perfect 
civilization is going to be 

1120
01:03:14,607 --> 01:03:28,100
destroyed. 
The nose at the time. 

1121
01:03:28,100 --> 01:03:30,900
I've, uh, it's much. 
I've grown to enjoy it more with

1122
01:03:30,900 --> 01:03:32,600
age. 
I think that. 

1123
01:03:32,900 --> 01:03:35,500
Yeah, Stephen King did a good 
job of like he didn't paint 

1124
01:03:35,500 --> 01:03:37,500
himself as like a good 
protagonist guy? 

1125
01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:39,100
I think he just was a piece of 
shit. 

1126
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:42,200
I'm kind of tucked herself down 
a bit and then, you know, 

1127
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,300
somewhere to make sure he didn't
get assassinated by van driver 

1128
01:03:44,300 --> 01:03:47,500
who was sent by demon anyway, 
spoilers. 

1129
01:03:47,500 --> 01:03:51,200
So, Sports what it is for this, 
obviously all spoilers, so reckw

1130
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:52,900
reckw. 
I don't listen to the last five 

1131
01:03:52,900 --> 01:03:55,600
minutes, guys. 
But listen, if I, if I lived 

1132
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:59,300
near you, And you got a little 
drunk. 

1133
01:03:59,300 --> 01:04:02,500
I one night I would absolutely 
dress up like an Arthurian, 

1134
01:04:02,500 --> 01:04:05,100
western cowboy, a knock on the 
door and be like, hey can you 

1135
01:04:05,100 --> 01:04:11,700
not do that for me? 
If it is that someone at Gen Con

1136
01:04:11,700 --> 01:04:16,100
is going to like appear dressed 
as a wizard and like tell me 

1137
01:04:16,100 --> 01:04:19,000
that I need to save some of the 
other like my dude, give it a 

1138
01:04:19,008 --> 01:04:21,000
breakup of working right now can
you? 

1139
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:25,400
You know, but it will be a sharp
there duster that cowboy hat and

1140
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:30,300
a Six-year me. 
Listen listen kid. 

1141
01:04:33,500 --> 01:04:37,100
So so yeah. 
Super, super excited for the 

1142
01:04:37,100 --> 01:04:40,300
project. 
There's still six days left on 

1143
01:04:40,300 --> 01:04:41,700
the project. 
So if you're listening to this 

1144
01:04:41,700 --> 01:04:44,100
now and you haven't backed it, 
how how fucking dare you? 

1145
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:47,900
But also in a couple of days on 
YouTube and on the podcast, when

1146
01:04:47,900 --> 01:04:50,200
you get a chance to hear this 
you definitely want to go to 

1147
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:53,000
inevitable. 
A doomed Arthurian Western RPG. 

1148
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,300
Like I said, if you're a famous 
old, mop it at all, it sounds 

1149
01:04:55,300 --> 01:04:57,900
like a lot of things so much. 
Has already done has been 

1150
01:04:57,900 --> 01:05:03,500
inspired by this or you'll see a
lot of at least Vibe adjacent 

1151
01:05:03,500 --> 01:05:07,300
stuff in here. 
And can't wait for what else? 

1152
01:05:07,300 --> 01:05:08,000
What's the next thing? 
You know? 

1153
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:09,900
You're going to put sad Cowboys 
in. 

1154
01:05:11,500 --> 01:05:14,500
All right, I did I do now. 
I don't, I think I've hit all 

1155
01:05:14,500 --> 01:05:18,200
the things I can put sad 
Cowboys, and I've got some plans

1156
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:21,000
that are like, still sad but not
Cowboy that. 

1157
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,200
Maybe I'll tell you about women,
not on a livestream because I do

1158
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:24,700
want to publicly announce 
anything. 

1159
01:05:24,700 --> 01:05:29,400
But yeah, I think the cowboy Arc
is probably done for a bit and 

1160
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,500
maybe in a couple years we'll 
come back and do some more 

1161
01:05:31,500 --> 01:05:33,200
stuff. 
But moreover, the blues is 

1162
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,400
coming, they'll be open. 
Please for as long as Josh and 

1163
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:41,100
Sam are excited about making it,
and I will continue to Jazz to 

1164
01:05:41,300 --> 01:05:44,900
Or books literally jazzed but 
yeah that's that I think. 

1165
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:08,700
It's you know but but aside from
you know, not aside from like we

1166
01:06:08,700 --> 01:06:10,400
have inevitable. 
We have more over the blues 

1167
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:12,600
coming constant. 
Best left buried coming out of 

1168
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:13,600
me. 
Throne of avarice. 

1169
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:15,600
Is that all my stuff yet? 
No. 

1170
01:06:15,700 --> 01:06:19,400
No, the PDF I think. 
So it should be with you in a 

1171
01:06:19,408 --> 01:06:21,000
couple of months for maybe six 
weeks. 

1172
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:25,200
Hopefully fantastic. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. 

1173
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:27,300
I definitely have that already. 
We've definitely gone through 

1174
01:06:27,300 --> 01:06:29,400
that or even brighten oxidize, 
some fantastic work. 

1175
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,800
Fantastic art. 
I mean they're they're Vibe is 

1176
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:36,100
so well suited to best life 
Barry that continent from them 

1177
01:06:36,100 --> 01:06:38,700
for that just feels like it 
should be there. 

1178
01:06:38,700 --> 01:06:42,500
So I mean with Throne of 
avarice, I've wrote the best 

1179
01:06:42,500 --> 01:06:45,200
separate setting like quite a 
long time ago, I kind of dig the

1180
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:48,800
first Version and then Brian 
Rona Venture protocol Spoils of 

1181
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:50,300
the Golden Coast and I was out 
cool. 

1182
01:06:50,300 --> 01:06:54,200
Bryant bad me whenever I see the
setting and I am and then so I 

1183
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:56,800
hired Brian to basically redo 
the core setting in the core 

1184
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,900
book and then it came out, it 
was much more tightly themed 

1185
01:06:59,900 --> 01:07:02,200
adhesive and it was actually 
about the stuff I wrote about by

1186
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:06,400
accident. 
So obviously working with her on

1187
01:07:07,900 --> 01:07:09,300
Throne of avarice was just a 
joy. 

1188
01:07:09,300 --> 01:07:13,800
It's kind of about Kalman and 
the instruments of colonialism 

1189
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:15,600
capitalism that it was affected 
by. 

1190
01:07:15,700 --> 01:07:18,000
Bye. 
And then there was kind of this 

1191
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,100
question about been doing art 
for it. 

1192
01:07:20,100 --> 01:07:22,600
We had a couple of best that 
product was best left buried 

1193
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:25,600
projects at the time and kind of
on sleep with the lemon and then

1194
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:27,400
Brian volunteered to Art it 
themselves. 

1195
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:31,300
And I was like you can do what 
this is what you happy to do. 

1196
01:07:31,300 --> 01:07:34,200
So that whole book is like a 
through-composed beauty supply 

1197
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:35,100
drive. 
At this point, with the 

1198
01:07:35,100 --> 01:07:40,600
exception of the editing by app 
a, I'm blind and deaf Taylor. 

1199
01:07:41,100 --> 01:07:44,800
And the wonderful layout die 
suga's. 

1200
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,600
They are Incredible graphic 
designer who also did work on 

1201
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:50,400
cans of time City. 
So yeah that's a that's a 

1202
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,900
gorgeous through-composed piece 
of book by Bryant that I'm such 

1203
01:07:53,900 --> 01:07:55,800
a fan of yeah but I'll be with 
people soon. 

1204
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,400
I hope. 
They're excited to get that. 

1205
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,300
I mean it's night every. 
I feel like every couple of 

1206
01:08:00,300 --> 01:08:04,500
months were just getting more. 
So I'm all bit because we got oh

1207
01:08:04,500 --> 01:08:07,200
God, I literally just saw it and
read it and why my blanking on 

1208
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,300
the name of it? 
The loss and the GM just got 

1209
01:08:09,300 --> 01:08:09,800
here. 
Yeah. 

1210
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:12,000
Just a little bit ago. 
I mean, we're going to get their

1211
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:15,000
own of avarice and we're going 
to get broken a blue stuff. 

1212
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:18,100
I mean, it's nice to always 
constantly have a stream of 

1213
01:08:18,100 --> 01:08:22,600
great content coming from from 
Saul Muppet and, and, you know, 

1214
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,200
Roanoke and Eckhart can wait for
a dye to get here as well. 

1215
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:28,899
So there's a lot of, a lot of Of
cognate coming out from that. 

1216
01:08:28,899 --> 01:08:32,200
You have your hands all over, 
you know, this year and going in

1217
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:34,600
a neck. 
So it'll be, it'll be great to 

1218
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,500
see that as those continue to 
come out and and again, if you 

1219
01:08:38,500 --> 01:08:41,100
were listening to this now go 
check out inevitable back. 

1220
01:08:41,100 --> 01:08:44,700
It get the bowl that dice, get 
all of that, that stuff. 

1221
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,100
It's one of those things when I 
when I back the orbital Blues 

1222
01:08:47,100 --> 01:08:49,700
Kickstarter I was in this like 
maybe I should save money phase.

1223
01:08:49,899 --> 01:08:53,399
So I just got the regular book 
and then spent like months 

1224
01:08:53,399 --> 01:08:56,500
regretting that I didn't get the
night cover and the tape. 

1225
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:58,800
And then you guys finally drop 
that and I was able to snatch 

1226
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,100
all that up, so don't regret not
getting the bullet dice. 

1227
01:09:01,100 --> 01:09:06,800
I'll say that. 
So inevitable is on Kickstarter.

1228
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:08,899
Where can people find the rest 
of your stuff? 

1229
01:09:08,899 --> 01:09:12,399
Like the your stores, the itch, 
like, where can you find all 

1230
01:09:12,407 --> 01:09:15,399
your content? 
Finders are so map it on 

1231
01:09:15,399 --> 01:09:17,600
Instagram. 
And at some look at RPG on 

1232
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,600
Twitter, I am the jelly Muppet 
which is there's no underscores 

1233
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:24,300
in that. 
I don't believe on most places 

1234
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:28,500
the the best place to find Sol 
up at stuff is on some up. 

1235
01:09:28,500 --> 01:09:32,500
It hyphen store .co.uk if you go
to home it will also Also, get 

1236
01:09:32,500 --> 01:09:37,200
you there, we've got dozens and 
dozens of role-playing games 

1237
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:41,000
that literally, we're going to a
convention next month and I'm 

1238
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,899
packin 87, different books that 
are going to have to go on that 

1239
01:09:43,899 --> 01:09:46,899
table. 
And that is no less than about a

1240
01:09:46,899 --> 01:09:48,000
big table. 
What? 

1241
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,600
We actually get work to it's 
like two-and-a-half tables, it's

1242
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:52,600
a big. 
We go to UK games Expo and 

1243
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,100
you'll see as their and dragon 
meat as well and maybe some 

1244
01:09:55,100 --> 01:09:57,300
conventions in the u.s. some 
point if we're lucky. 

1245
01:09:57,300 --> 01:10:00,400
But that's not something we can 
do at the moment is sadly 

1246
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:02,000
because getting over to the 
states for a concert. 

1247
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:07,100
Expensive. 
The good news about that is 

1248
01:10:07,100 --> 01:10:10,600
that? 
Yeah, so my pit hyphen store. 

1249
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:12,600
.Co.uk is the place to buy 
stuff. 

1250
01:10:12,900 --> 01:10:14,000
Good. 
U.s. shipping. 

1251
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,100
There is a Discord and a mailing
list. 

1252
01:10:16,100 --> 01:10:18,400
You can find, there you are able
to get free. 

1253
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:21,300
Quick starts of all the things 
that I've talked about there is 

1254
01:10:21,300 --> 01:10:22,600
a quick start of all before 
Blues. 

1255
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:24,500
There's one Professor. 
Barry, there's 14 games are 

1256
01:10:24,508 --> 01:10:26,200
planned city whose 1 for 
inevitable. 

1257
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:30,900
You can also get free Adventures
for well, but the orbit of these

1258
01:10:30,900 --> 01:10:34,000
quick start comes upon a rare. 
Eddie and the best separated one

1259
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:36,400
has where you can apply 
downloading on mailing list you 

1260
01:10:36,407 --> 01:10:39,800
can get free adventures and 
stuff and on that mailing list 

1261
01:10:39,900 --> 01:10:43,000
is you get a discount every 
month or something cool that we 

1262
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,300
are doing that. 
We want to get people's hands on

1263
01:10:45,700 --> 01:10:49,000
and yeah, just come and chat 
with us. 

1264
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,100
There's a Discord server linked 
up on there as well, which is 

1265
01:10:51,108 --> 01:10:56,900
like the place I am most active 
upon the internet, but yeah, 

1266
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,200
it's all good. 
Babaji is happening constantly 

1267
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:05,300
and you can find roller Deckard.
All Rowdy games.com, I believe, 

1268
01:11:05,300 --> 01:11:09,700
and all the wonderful stuff that
happens there, including die, 

1269
01:11:09,700 --> 01:11:12,200
and heart Inspire, and all the 
one pages and stuff. 

1270
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:16,600
So and the new, the new thing 
that is happening that I think 

1271
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,700
is has been announced, but it's 
coming soon is called eat the 

1272
01:11:19,700 --> 01:11:24,700
Reich, which is our summer 
Kickstarter project where you 

1273
01:11:24,700 --> 01:11:31,100
play vampires working for the 
Allies who are trying to hunt to

1274
01:11:31,100 --> 01:11:37,600
drink Nazi. 
Lard in 1943 - yeah which is the

1275
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:40,900
some real good art for that one.
When it comes out you should be 

1276
01:11:40,900 --> 01:11:43,000
able to get your eyes on that 
suit. 

1277
01:11:43,100 --> 01:11:49,100
That's like Yeah, yeah, the 
stuff like, again, they the 

1278
01:11:49,100 --> 01:11:52,100
storm a-coming, you know? 
Yeah. 

1279
01:11:52,100 --> 01:11:55,200
Like between between all of the 
summertime oversoul Muppet and 

1280
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:56,800
then we haven't got to go over 
spot. 

1281
01:11:56,900 --> 01:11:59,500
Spire a heart yet on the show, 
but we definitely have plans to 

1282
01:11:59,500 --> 01:12:04,200
do that, but a vampire, like 
Nazi killing game. 

1283
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:07,400
Sounds fucking amazing, and I 
feel like it's probably you had 

1284
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:10,400
me killing Nazis. 
So, for that, for that right 

1285
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:13,600
now, I think it's a good idea to
punch a Nazi in the face every 

1286
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:17,300
now I know. 
Listen, Zach, jelly Muppet. 

1287
01:12:17,500 --> 01:12:18,900
Thank you so much for coming on 
the show. 

1288
01:12:18,900 --> 01:12:22,000
Like I said, we've been big fans
of some opted for a long time. 

1289
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:23,000
Have done a bunch of the games 
here. 

1290
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:24,800
It's really nice to finally, get
a chance to talk to you 

1291
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,100
especially you know, prior to 
inevitable. 

1292
01:12:27,100 --> 01:12:29,900
Which seems to kind of be the 
seed for a lot of the stuff 

1293
01:12:29,900 --> 01:12:31,300
you've done. 
So it's really been fantastic. 

1294
01:12:31,300 --> 01:12:32,900
Talking to you and just really 
appreciate you. 

1295
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:36,100
Making me making, come in here. 
Absolutely. 

1296
01:12:36,100 --> 01:12:39,600
Thanks for coming up. 
Thanks for having me on. 

1297
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:44,800
Yeah yeah. 
Hey don't you know yeah you guys

1298
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:49,500
have let me talk for too long as
always so I listen if you're in 

1299
01:12:49,500 --> 01:12:51,600
the chat, I hang out. 
We're going to go over gangs 

1300
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:52,900
Titan City here in just a 
minute. 

1301
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:57,200
And if you're listening on 
YouTube or the podcast, we're 

1302
01:12:57,200 --> 01:12:58,700
plugging to cut this into two 
episodes. 

1303
01:12:58,700 --> 01:13:02,500
So just click the next episode 
and we will be back shortly. 

1304
01:13:02,500 --> 01:13:05,900
So again, Jack thank you so much
and we'll be right back.