1 00:00:15,130 --> 00:00:17,450 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll podcast. 2 00:00:17,450 --> 00:00:22,290 My name is Ryan and joining me today are a couple of people, 3 00:00:22,290 --> 00:00:24,130 one that's been here before. What it's not that is Zach and 4 00:00:24,130 --> 00:00:25,610 Nick have soul. Muppet, how are you guys doing 5 00:00:25,610 --> 00:00:29,970 today evening? Doing pretty good, thanks. 6 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,360 Yeah, happy to be his chop up doom spiral. 7 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:35,840 Doom Spiral. Yeah. 8 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,480 For those that might not know, at least Nick, Zach, you've been 9 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:45,080 here. Fuck, I I was going to count. 10 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,760 I think it's like 9 times or something like that at this 11 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,480 point. But for those who might not know 12 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,720 who you guys are, what soul Muppet is all those kind of 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:55,640 things. What what, what? 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,880 What is a soul Muppet and and what are you guys to it? 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,400 So I'm Zach, I'm the director founder of soul muppet. 16 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:12,560 We are Auk based in the RPG company, which makes games like 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,400 orbital Blues inevitable, paint the town red, best left buried 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,920 and Matt as hell. And now Doom spiral, which is 19 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,160 the game that Nick created for us tells tells me about 20 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:23,640 yourself. Nick. 21 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:29,240 I guess you know you, you go. Well, yeah, and I'm Nick also UK 22 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:34,680 based RPG writer, sort of long time collaborator. 23 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:41,600 I suppose that's the best word for done a lot with soul Muppet. 24 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,760 I've written the the Monster Manual for best left buried. 25 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:51,600 I've written Gangs of Titan City, sci-fi crime game and yeah 26 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,760 now now doing Doom Spiral, horrible dark fantasy boss 27 00:01:54,760 --> 00:02:00,560 fights and such. Yeah, so we've talked about all 28 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,040 of, well, I don't have Paint the Town right in my hand yet, but 29 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,480 I've seen it because we saw it together at Gen. 30 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,199 Con. Don't have Matt as Hell yet. 31 00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:09,919 That's still coming. You guys have a lot of stuff 32 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,720 kind of in the queue on the way and you know, Maul was here 33 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,800 after Gen. Con, but I don't think have we 34 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,720 talked since Gen. Con or was like the Matt as hell 35 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,040 stuff prior to Gen. Con. 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,920 That's how stuff was back in sort of May time, launched on 37 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:27,760 International Workers Day on May 1st. 38 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:29,880 So yeah, we've not been in since. 39 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,000 Time is just it just rolls on, doesn't it? 40 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,880 It's kind of crazy how it all blurs into one, but you have a 41 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,040 lot of stuff in the queue. This is what the so this will be 42 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,920 the is this just the I guess if it's just mad as hell, This is 43 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:45,320 second Kickstarter of the year then? 44 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,000 Or is it the third? Yeah second kick start of the 45 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,840 year painting town red was this time like October ish last year. 46 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:57,800 There we go. And we've done reviews of Gangs 47 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,440 of Titan City. We've talked about it before, 48 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:07,520 but so Doom Spiral, we're we're going to get to that soon. 49 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,200 But there's kind of like a difference between Doom Spiral 50 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,360 and Gangs of Titan City and like paint the town red and orbital 51 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,280 Blues and stuff like that. One of which I think is defined 52 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,040 by sad before describing every version of those games. 53 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,680 Because you have sad space Cowboys, you have sad vampire. 54 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,840 And then I guess Nick, like with, you know, with Kings of 55 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,000 Titans City with with Doomsboro, which we'll get into a little 56 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,920 bit soon. Like what would you kind of 57 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:34,760 describe more as your kind of like writing style for the stuff 58 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,880 that you bring some of it? That's a great question. 59 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:50,160 I, I would say something more kind of along the lines of from 60 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,920 the stuff that I've done with soul Market at least. 61 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:57,720 So it's the stuff I I quite like doing is a systems systems 62 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,040 driven a lot of the time. So like gangs of Titan City has 63 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:08,840 a very tight kind of engine for propelling the plot along and in 64 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:13,200 terms of like giving players lots of tools and things that 65 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:20,959 they can do to influence events, whether sort of in a sort of 66 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:27,200 more zoomed in person to person scope or zoomed out curve more 67 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,520 scheme E plotty stuff. And that is also kind of how I 68 00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:37,960 got into serious collaboration with Zach because I was the 69 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:42,600 person who understood the best left buried monsters as much, if 70 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,920 not perhaps slightly better than Zach at the time. 71 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:48,640 So that's why I was then doing the Monster Manual. 72 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,760 Take a bit of the the stress off Zach. 73 00:04:53,600 --> 00:05:00,120 And so yeah, so Doom Spiral is kind of in a lot of ways defined 74 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,160 by it's it's combat system, I would say, but also just really 75 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:12,240 like writings of horrid grungy settings with like, you know, 76 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:17,360 sort of a little stuff to find if if you're interested in 77 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,600 looking for it as well. Yeah, yeah, I'll definitely say 78 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:26,200 that of all the systems that so Muppet has put out, Doom Spiral, 79 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,240 and maybe I'm wrong, I mean, I read all of them, it feels the 80 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,360 crunchiest, I think by a pretty far margin. 81 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,440 Would you say, would you guys say that that is correct? 82 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,280 I think the only real rival would be gangs. 83 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:48,440 Yeah, Nick, Nick's like corpus of work like sits in quite a 84 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,840 different place to mine. Does I think while like do 85 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:56,680 Spiral Gangs both feel like some of the games certainly in terms 86 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,640 of like having really strong emotional storytelling, really 87 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:07,480 precise settings and genres, but mainly through like being about 88 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,760 escaping people trying to escape from a situation, right. 89 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,800 And that being the case of like best left buried and orbital 90 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,920 Blues economic situations and like stuff about mental health 91 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:25,320 that goes through those games and also paint the town red, you 92 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,400 know, looking at like escaping economic situations as well. 93 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,720 Like in mad as Hell and Gazetan city. 94 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,200 There's lots of like really common language there, which 95 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,080 feeds over into Duke spiral because ultimately, right, to 96 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,800 address the elephant in the room, this is a game that's like 97 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:48,960 looking at cyclical apocalypses, right? 98 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,880 And like the world, the age of fire fading and like this 99 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,440 decision point about why what's going to happen next. 100 00:06:56,840 --> 00:07:02,480 And that is something that is like fundamentally a a soul 101 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,800 muppet game in that it feels very dark, salty. 102 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,560 But also, yeah, Nick writes a hell of a lot more mechanically 103 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,560 inclined than I do. I'm very much in any 104 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,840 relationship writing relationship. 105 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,880 I'm the vibes guy, right? I'm not the most confident 106 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:25,720 mechanical writer going and we're and I think that my 107 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,200 background like comes from a bit more of like a story game, OSR 108 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,920 fusion as a writer, whereas I think Doom Spiral and to a 109 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:39,240 lesser extent gangs as well do lead a little bit more trad than 110 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,520 like some of the other soul Muppet stuff. 111 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,480 So while it's really different to these other games, it's still 112 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,600 fundamentally a soul Muppet game. 113 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,360 Doom Spiral because it's about like, you know, people trying to 114 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,800 work out what to do at the end of the world, and this time it's 115 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,320 attack and dethrone God, you know? 116 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,080 Yeah, yeah, I mean emotions. If I if I, if someone had to 117 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,880 say, how are some of the games different than like the other, 118 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,840 you know, piles of games I have behind me? 119 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,480 I will say that, you know, a lot of games have emotions and 120 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,400 things in it, but I feel like that's kind of like a core 121 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:19,320 aspect of soul muppet stuff. Is that the the vibes, but 122 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:24,040 specifically like the emotion that's brought to the game being 123 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,880 like a core aspect of it, even if it is, you know, escaping an 124 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,160 apocalypse or, you know, being saggy vampires or being sad 125 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,200 space Cowboys or, or, or any of the things that even in Gangsta 126 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,880 City, it's never just like a system. 127 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:37,880 It's never just a setting. I feel like there's always an 128 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,640 overarching kind of like something pulling at your 129 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,559 heartstrings a little bit like some emotion is really like 130 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,280 driving a core aspect of the game forward. 131 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,640 So if I describe some Muppet, I think that's kind of how I would 132 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,240 say different from a lot of these other ones is like as a 133 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,960 whole, I think the catalog probably is more emotional in in 134 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,240 a in a great way than a lot of other games and systems or 135 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,040 publishers put stuff out, especially because there's kind 136 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,400 of like a through line between all of them versus maybe like a, 137 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,440 you know, like a, a publisher that has put out, I mean, I'm 138 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:10,960 like a Free league or Evil hat or whatever. 139 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,000 It's just kind of like a smattering of stuff, you know, 140 00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:17,160 and I mean, that's one reason that I love saw muppet is is 141 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,760 that kind of, I don't know, depth to the games. 142 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,880 It's more it's always more than just a setting or a system. 143 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,160 There's always, I don't know, I think buy in that really helps. 144 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:32,600 It like feel I I guess, a little bit deeper and and that's why 145 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,160 you've been on the show like, you know, 15 times and we did 146 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,400 gem together. But but so do spiral going to 147 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,680 get in that in just a moment. But Nick, how, how did you get 148 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:44,040 involved with saw Muppet in the first place? 149 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,840 Mostly by chance, I can't remember exactly what year it 150 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,720 was. It was like 20/17/18. 151 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,760 When was the I? Think. 18 so. 152 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,400 This year, best of grade came out was 2018. 153 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:03,600 Yeah. So that's the year it would have 154 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:09,640 been. Yeah, so this was for the Zine 155 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:15,640 Quest Quartet where Zach had released Best Life Buried and 156 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:20,160 then sort of just sourced 4 authors to to write adventures 157 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,000 for it as part of this BIG4 part Kickstarter. 158 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:32,000 And I think the first they put out an open call in their 159 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,320 Discord. Well, it's how I remember it. 160 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:40,480 And I originally pitched it. And then Zach was like, that's a 161 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,120 really cool idea, but I think unfortunately we can't do it 162 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,240 this time. And I was like, ah, OK. 163 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,760 And then a few days later, I think they, they, they came, 164 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,400 they came crawling back and like actually there, there is a 165 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,520 space. It was months you have. 166 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,360 Was it? I don't remember it that being 167 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,200 that long. But and then we did dark things. 168 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,560 Seas of ours mare. We did the dark things, seas of 169 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:09,480 ours, mare as I was, yeah. And so I ended up writing this 170 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,560 sort of Zine sized adventure for best left buried alongside some 171 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:17,360 really very talented writers, which was quite surreal, 172 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,680 particularly in hindsight now that like I'm kind of more 173 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:25,120 familiar with people like Zedexu and Luke Gearing who are kind of 174 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:30,800 like, we're very well respected writers in the OSR community. 175 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,280 Yeah, might have heard of Luke gearing a place or two across 176 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:39,600 the key charity space, you know. And, and so that kind of went 177 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,120 reasonably well. I think we, we made a cool 178 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:49,680 adventure and then I in my own times was having a great time 179 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:52,400 writing it. So I, I started for my own 180 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:57,560 pleasure just writing a, a best left Berry, best Yuri because 181 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,320 what else are you going to do at that time? 182 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:06,320 And I think Zach, then you just happened to offhandedly mention 183 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,840 that you're going to do a remaster of the game with kind 184 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:14,680 of a more 3 core book structure, which became best left very 185 00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:19,720 deeper. And I said, oh, well, I have 186 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:24,200 this as I was like, let's go. And then we I've just kind of 187 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:30,560 pestered them ever since it. Was very refreshing. 188 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:33,960 Like there's Nix monsters in darkening seas of ours. 189 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,080 May as Nick said, I said at the time they were better than mine. 190 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,440 They were really interesting. Like it was really nice, like 191 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,560 writing a framework and then like watching somebody else work 192 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,400 sing with it and that be something really fantastic. 193 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,160 And then like I realized I needed that Monster Manual, but 194 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,360 I didn't really have enough ideas or enough time to write an 195 00:12:54,360 --> 00:13:00,040 entire one myself. I kind of liked my buried 196 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,720 monsters being really simple. And then Nick was like, here's 197 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,680 some stuff you could do with this engine to kind of make it 198 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:08,720 more exciting. And that's where that, like, 199 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,520 Hunter's Guide came from with lots of like, now really central 200 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,320 iconic monsters that are like, quite key to the best left Berry 201 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,640 setting, I think, you know, So it's super great to collaborate 202 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,120 on. And we've made a few more games 203 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,080 since then. And Nick's been like, also a 204 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,520 mainstay at some of the convention staff in the UK. 205 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,360 And he's like, really familiar with all of our games. 206 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,320 And it just makes sense to keep making stuff really. 207 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:38,800 And me and Nick both really really love Eldon Ring and Dark 208 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,240 Souls indeed. Like, you know, I don't know if 209 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:43,320 this is. Obvious from the. 210 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:50,000 Crowdfunding project, but me and Nick played through the entirety 211 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,600 of Elden Ring to play with each other, which is something like 212 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,480 all not just the boss fights, like all the big legacy dungeons 213 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,640 as well, which is not something the game really helps you or 214 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,360 lets you do. So, you know, we've done a lot 215 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:09,280 of a lot of dodge rolling in the same space with Nick being much 216 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,600 better at that than me as well. So you know. 217 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:20,120 Yeah, yeah, I saw the blue sky posts talking about actually 218 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,040 going through Elden Ring and doing it all over again and and 219 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,600 everything. I actually have still never 220 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,720 played one second of Elden Ring. I own it, you know, I 221 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:31,040 pre-ordered it, I got it. But I just, you know, every time 222 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,240 I try to sit down and watch video games, my brain just goes, 223 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,760 man, you could be doing something else right now. 224 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,120 And then I just I can't, I can't get into it. 225 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,760 But I've watched a lot of twitch. 226 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,280 I think I've I think I've watched all of Elden Ring at 227 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,200 this point. At some point I'll have to 228 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:53,520 actually sit down and play it. But so Doom Spiral, you know, 229 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,200 we'll get to the, the meat of the episode clearly, if we're 230 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,600 talking about Elden Ring and and Dark Souls and and everything 231 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,080 like that, maybe that might be involved, you know, a little bit 232 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,560 of inspired by this project. So I guess to get started with 233 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,120 it, where, where, where did Doom Spiral come from? 234 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,000 Like what was the impetus for this project? 235 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:19,840 How long has it been cooking? Well, partly for me. 236 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:27,680 I say partly. Mostly Dark Souls and that sort 237 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:32,520 of series of of games has been one of my my primary loves and 238 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,840 joys for a for a long, long time. 239 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,840 One of the kind of the big influences on my writing and 240 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:48,200 design even. And it was getting to the point 241 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,560 where like, you know, we had our Souls 3 and then old and ring 242 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,880 and blood born and all this and there hadn't been a good Dark 243 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,640 Souls RPG. They've been they've been like a 244 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,000 few goods, like kind of solo games inspired by that series, 245 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,960 like like Ruined by Spencer Campbell, I quite enjoy. 246 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:12,920 But in terms of like the big a big meaty thing, there hadn't 247 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:18,960 been anything. And then Steam Forged released 248 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:24,960 their 5E version of the game to mixed reviews. 249 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:30,120 Perhaps that's kind of you to say. 250 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,800 I, I, I can't, I can't wear my heart on my sleeve too much 251 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,400 about that given what I'm doing now, I think. 252 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,720 But I think that was kind of the impetus for me to like, 253 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,160 seriously sit down. OK, well, how would I do that? 254 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:49,120 And, and this was many moons ago, I think this was even while 255 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,840 I was doing Gangs of Titan City. And it, it, it was just kind of 256 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,400 like in a pot by itself, bubbling along. 257 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:06,280 And like I, I, I talked to Zach recently often, I would say. 258 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,839 And we, we, we talked about it here and there. 259 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,800 I don't remember exactly when we sort of first sat down 260 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,040 officially to say, shall we make this a project? 261 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,599 Zach, do you do you recall? And I know we signed the 262 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,400 contract in April of last year because I was looking. 263 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,240 At it, yeah. You know, but in terms of like 264 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,360 how long you'd been thinking about it and when we agreed to 265 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:34,080 do it, it was a very long time ago and it wasn't called Doom 266 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:38,000 Spiral for all of that time. Yeah, the the name itself. 267 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,880 This has been something. Yeah. 268 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,760 That has been like cooking with you for some time. 269 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,120 Mainly what trying to like work out how the hell to do it 270 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,120 because. Yes. 271 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:54,880 It was about like, quite fundamentally understanding the 272 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,720 things that we loved about that genre and the other. 273 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,920 People love. Right and what bits of that we 274 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,880 want to try and replicate in tabletop form and what what bits 275 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,760 of it could like not be done in transferred away from video 276 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,400 games, right. And I understand there's a 277 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,000 document I think we made quite early on which is like these are 278 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,080 the key joys that we wish to translate, you know those sort 279 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,520 of chemical materials. And then next since like 280 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:30,880 designed this fantastic system which and a big setting as well. 281 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,480 It's worth mentioning like most of this book is just a massive 282 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,560 adventure, like the biggest adventure some up has ever 283 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,880 written. Maybe inevitable is slightly 284 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,680 bigger, but not in any way that matters. 285 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,760 Inevitable is a big book. It's I was shocked when I got 286 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,800 all three of those books at how big it is. 287 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,400 I literally had to move my shelf to a bigger shelf because 288 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,360 Inevitable was too tall with. The rest of it? 289 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:03,160 Yeah, Inevitable is one of the bigger the bigger books on my 290 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,040 shelf as well. Absolutely good. 291 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,240 It feels good. Quick question. 292 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,400 So I mean, we'll get in the mechanics a little bit more. 293 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,880 So when you guys were were making this, were you trying 294 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:21,560 more to if, if we call it like genre emulation, were you trying 295 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:26,760 to emulate more of kind of like the system or more of the vibes 296 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,680 of the system, if that makes sense. 297 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,680 Like not necessarily how a Perry works, but just how will a Perry 298 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,400 makes you feel kind of thing? Or was it a little bit of a mix 299 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:41,520 of both? I think it definitely started 300 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:48,920 off for me with kind of emulating or adapting the system 301 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,640 because if only because like in terms of like the vibes and the 302 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,320 aesthetics, I knew I could do that. 303 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,440 I understand the aesthetic and what I enjoy about it at least. 304 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,480 So I was confident I could do that. 305 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,360 But it's the system itself and like the mechanical feel of the 306 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:13,640 game. That was the the bigger obstacle 307 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,840 for the longest time because like. 308 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,400 There's kind of the two approaches I think you can take 309 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,760 for this where you kind of really try and copy the system 310 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,280 in like a high fidelity and especially with something like 311 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,680 Dark Souls, which is very, you know, reaction based. 312 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:44,000 That's a hard feeling to make in a spoken word dice rolling game. 313 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,640 So certainly there was an attempt at doing that, which I 314 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,720 think the current game does about as well as I think you 315 00:20:53,720 --> 00:21:00,080 can. And yeah, and kind of it was 316 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,960 then once I had the bones of the thing that we started putting on 317 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,920 the meat of like building up this, this setting this world to 318 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:14,320 explore using the system and sort of I'll fed into back into 319 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:19,240 each other. Yeah, it makes sense. 320 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:24,040 I mean, you can only do like Zach said, that there's you can 321 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,720 do a lot of what video games to do, but you can't do everything. 322 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:27,720 I mean, that's why. It's. 323 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,720 Just in separate spaces. So being able to try to emulate 324 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,680 the parts you want the most is a great way to start it. 325 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,840 I mean, we've talked about how it's, you know, it's it's 326 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,600 Soulsy, right? But what is the, what's the 327 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,880 actual Doom Spiral pitch? Like? 328 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,520 What if this is, you know, inspired by those games you guys 329 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,360 love? Like what is this game actually? 330 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,760 What is Doom Spiral itself? Right. 331 00:21:54,440 --> 00:22:00,480 This is we've, we've not, we've struggled to put this succinctly 332 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:06,560 before, but in essence, the game is about this world that has 333 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,320 been doomed by like the decisions of the people who rule 334 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:16,080 it and like fate has been set. Everything's going to just fade 335 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,040 away and die and be just generally quite horrid. 336 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,520 So you then play characters called Forsaken who are 337 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,480 deathless beings who are importantly severed from like 338 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,720 the progression of fate and destiny. 339 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:36,880 So, but in being nothing to the system, you're kind of free to 340 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,000 do anything. So then you engage in this 341 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:45,040 Soulsian journey to explore this kind of magnificent but fallen 342 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:50,000 world and overcome the dangers there and drag God from his 343 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:55,720 bloody throne to then actually secure a new future for this 344 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,800 this world. I sure feel like that was 345 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,960 reasonably succinct. Yeah, just something like that, 346 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,360 you know, just just cut out from death so you can go kill God. 347 00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:11,640 I mean, who doesn't want that? You know, kind of just like real 348 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:17,000 life, there's there's a quick start you guys have out now, a 349 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:22,000 quick, an 80, almost 90 page quick start, which is wonderful 350 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,440 that I've been going through over the past couple. 351 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,200 Days it keeps happening to me. Yeah, I actually have a physical 352 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,720 version of it that I got at Gen. Con and in the process of 353 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,040 finally putting all my books on the shelves, I think it got 354 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,760 tucked into a pile that ended up in a box. 355 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,600 So I need to find that and pull that out again. 356 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:44,320 But but it's gorgeous. I mean, you you guys have put in 357 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,160 more work into this than a lot of people put into like the 358 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,200 actual games. And this is 88 page, like a 359 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,640 5:00-ish, you know, softback book. 360 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,400 When you said it's the longest adventure that is going to end 361 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,160 up in a book. What is this book going to 362 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,720 actually look like compared to the rest of the stuff on the 363 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,160 Solemn of it shelf? Like, you know, that's a very 364 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,840 deeper or inevitable. Is it like a happy medium? 365 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,000 Is it going to be bigger and better? 366 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:13,640 Like what? What's the? 367 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:14,760 What's the? Plan for that. 368 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,720 So the book itself is quite large. 369 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,320 We kind of understood that to get the required like mystery 370 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,600 and labyrinthine scale and also reasonably complicated combat, 371 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,640 what we wanted to do was like present something that felt like 372 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,440 the complete package for the game. 373 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,280 We looked at like splitting up the call book, the adventure 374 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,600 into two like orbital Blues size books. 375 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,360 What we ended up settling on is like something that's going to 376 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,000 feel more like a the inevitable book. 377 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,680 If you've got one of those more like a sort of traditional 378 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,880 hardcover RPG. It's going to be a four. 379 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:59,040 So US letter slightly smudged and then probably about 240 to 380 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,360 270 pages is what we're projecting. 381 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,840 So a meaty book with a lot of like gorgeous detail to it. 382 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:12,880 We've also ended up going quite silly with the cover with the 383 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,760 assistance of our lovely printers. 384 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:27,520 At the moment the plan is that it is a so it's bound in a faux 385 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:33,600 leatherette bronzed leather, which is like this kind of 386 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:40,520 sparkling, not quite leather, you know, you know, vegan plant 387 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,160 based material that kind of glitters in the light. 388 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:51,160 But the good the advantage of the particular type of leather 389 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,920 rat we've chosen is that when you deboss it, you can also heat 390 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,720 treat it. So when we put stamp the words 391 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,640 doomspile into it, it changes it from like a a kind of glossy 392 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,520 bronze to a sort of tarnished, burnished metal. 393 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:15,520 And then on top of that, we're also applying foils to get this 394 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,400 element because like our version of, you know, souls or blood 395 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,680 echoes or ruins is this thing called thread, which is meant to 396 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:29,360 be like destiny, specifically woven from the great loom of 397 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:34,200 fate by the by the gods themselves at the sort of end of 398 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,560 the world where they've like built their godly Kingdom. 399 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,200 And that like is something that is going to be physically 400 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,120 represented in both like the metallic Sheen of this book and 401 00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:48,800 also the specific metallic detailing that is going to be 402 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:54,240 around like because, and then the bonfire equivalent or your, 403 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,520 you know, sculptors, idols or sight of grace or whatever is 404 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,440 this thing called a tether. So the book is going to and the 405 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,120 logo of the game itself, like incorporates a bunch of these 406 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:10,560 kind of spindly details that then allow fate to be tethered 407 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,120 to them, of which you are on wound from and also collecting 408 00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,480 it. So like it's a real, you know, 409 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,480 my me and Eric who saw Muppets like operations manager, real 410 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:28,920 sort of purchasing disrupt, convert, where like it is really 411 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,760 just a, you know, a thing from one end to the other that like 412 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,120 represents the thing it's trying to be. 413 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:40,480 We also have dice, which is which I don't know how well this 414 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:46,040 will show up, but they also have the physical golden tether 415 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,760 inside of them. Obviously if you're a podcast 416 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,160 listener, this is useless. But if you go to the Doom Spiral 417 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,360 web page, you will now be able to see like some of the most 418 00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:59,360 absurd dice that artists and dice maker has ever made, which 419 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:04,640 have bits of thread and these like golden, you know, bonfire 420 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,160 equivalents like set inside them. 421 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,920 And yeah, just generally terrifying myself with the 422 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,800 extent I'm willing to go to to make RPG, which I personally 423 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,960 find interesting and sickos are willing to spend money on. 424 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,200 Yeah, I mean, that's how you describe it on the Kickstarter 425 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:32,040 page is aspirational dream of any book sicko and and I agree. 426 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,560 I mean, I'm very excited. It sounds crazy and I know that 427 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,520 you get real excited about this stuff. 428 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,160 I mean, when we did the mad as hell and you talked about how 429 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,360 many punches are in that book, like how many holes are in the 430 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,800 cover and, and all of the various covers and how you can 431 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,040 wrap it. And it's these layers and 432 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:53,320 layers, which is sick because books are sick and only like 16% 433 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,680 of like the adult US population like reads a book a year. 434 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:01,360 So like books are cool and people need to make more cool 435 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,760 books. I'm glad that that you're really 436 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,520 just dive in head 1st and I'll have some really cool books on 437 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,800 the shelf before we get into more of the rewards and stuff 438 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,560 that were like what you know, people are going to get when 439 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,680 they go back. This this system for doom 440 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:15,800 spiral. We've already said it. 441 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,480 It's it's, you know, sole Z right? 442 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,640 And it's it's beefier than a lot of the stuff. 443 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,760 I know that Zach, you said it, it leans a little bit more trad, 444 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,480 which you know, of all the somewhat the games that I've 445 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,480 read, which is all of them, it definitely does feel the most 446 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,680 trad, especially because there are like attribute scores that 447 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,440 go up to like what like 18 ish or something like that. 448 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,280 There's dice associated with it. It's more of a dice pool game. 449 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:50,000 So so I guess system wise, how how does it work in in the in as 450 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,960 much as you want to say, but like, also, how do you make it 451 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,160 feel sulsy? How do you make it feel like 452 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,720 you're, you know, wearing a bucket and rolling away from 453 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,240 like a giant creature with that lore you'll never understand, 454 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,240 you know? Absolutely. 455 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:11,720 So I guess like the the main thing that I was trying to to 456 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:17,960 emulate with this system, the the kind of the two competing 457 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:25,160 push and pulls of games of this style of the kind of the back 458 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:30,360 and forth combat between you and your your enemy and then also 459 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,760 kind of very light resource management. 460 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,760 So the way the combat works is you have a pool of dice that 461 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:44,640 represent your stamina, and you get a certain number of those 462 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,680 back every round. And each combat rounds, you can 463 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,200 spend as many of them as you like doing things as long as you 464 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,640 have the dice kind of available. So you can spend them on doing 465 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,960 things like attacking or casting spells, all the all the all that 466 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:06,880 good stuff. But then obviously your enemies 467 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,760 get to have a go if you haven't killed them all and they're 468 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,920 going to unleash all sorts of horrid hell on you. 469 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:18,280 And so it's the it's the push and pull of we need to deal as 470 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,000 much damage to these guys, but if we don't kill them, we need 471 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:29,160 to have resources spare to then be able to defend ourselves. 472 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,520 And everything is, is like I said, these, these D6. 473 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,840 So they are very kind of, you know, knowable numbers, but 474 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,040 nothing is ever going to be a given. 475 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,400 Everything you kind of do have to roll the bones for and it's 476 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:52,920 like sort of almost loose gambling and just very the aim 477 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,320 is at least for very comprehensible odds and kind of 478 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,960 having to go by your gut rather than calculating. 479 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:10,160 So we want this combat to like kind of have a conceivable 480 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,840 amount of depth without having to, you know, do lots of big 481 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:20,480 calculations or like really in depth tactics. 482 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:28,520 So like there's also kind of a abstracted like position is the 483 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,440 name of the system. So you don't have to have like a 484 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,440 grid of with miniatures moving around. 485 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,560 You just have a number that kind of represents how much control 486 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,080 you have over the battlefield. So it's very much, I guess you'd 487 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,440 call it kind of theater of the mind esque, but with kind of 488 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:49,080 some depth and like calculation to it without it getting too 489 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,240 overwhelming. Is that the intention at least? 490 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,760 So you have this kind of the combat is kind of the core 491 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:02,480 mechanics of the game, but then there's also going to be a lot 492 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,840 of focus on exploration, but that is very much sort of 493 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:12,640 looser, more free form to encourage, you know, rather than 494 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,320 in combat engaging with mechanics and numbers and 495 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,200 abilities. Exploration is stripped right 496 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,480 down, almost to encourage you to take in the world, explore it, 497 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:34,240 and ask questions about it. You'll look like a monster and a 498 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,400 boss is like really important as well. 499 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,000 One of the ways that the game works on a quite fundamental 500 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,600 level is that each monster that you fight has its own custom 501 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:49,120 move table, right? With the six or so things it is 502 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,840 capable of doing, which might be some kind of reaction, some kind 503 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,600 of attack, some kind of like stance or movement and way it 504 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,720 changes. And each turn, that monster is 505 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,360 rolling a number of dice kind of similar to you and then 506 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,760 performing the actions on the dice that it rolls. 507 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,040 You know, if it's got three move dice, you're going to be picking 508 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,520 three things from that move table. 509 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,800 But the idea is that as the players fight the creature and 510 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,800 maybe fight it repeatedly, you know, if they die and have to 511 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,000 come back or, you know, encounter it in a new position, 512 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,760 they're learning the stuff that's on that move table and 513 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:23,880 learning how to interact with it. 514 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,199 And the stuff in the quick start is really simple. 515 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,800 You know, it's like, you know, and then the monster on a four 516 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,880 will do an attack or monster on a six will try to grab you and 517 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,600 stop you from moving. And as like the game gets more 518 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,480 complicated and the monster, well, not the game gets more, 519 00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:40,199 the monsters become more powerful. 520 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,520 They start to do more utterly unhinged shit that then your 521 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,320 characters have to like learn to interact with. 522 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,800 And it becomes a bit of a puzzle game as you are like, because 523 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,320 your characters for all this exploration you're doing are 524 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,520 going to be accumulating all these abilities, right? 525 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,160 And these abilities all use different resources. 526 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,000 They use the position, they use the stamina. 527 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,840 Some enemies are going to be better at dealing with certain 528 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,720 types of equipment or certain types of attacks. 529 00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:09,600 You know, they might have attacks that are more easily 530 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,640 parable or like, focus on dealing with ranged attackers 531 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,040 rather than melee ones. Like all monsters will target 532 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,360 characters at different sets of positions. 533 00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:22,680 So you can like learn, oh, because this big monster is 534 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,080 about to do a smash attack between positions four and five. 535 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,640 I have to be in positions 123 or five through 10, right? 536 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,560 And as you kind of unlock that, you understand the dance of what 537 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,720 your characters are capable to do because the numbers are 538 00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:39,160 actually really transparent for what you can expect to achieve. 539 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,440 But also so are the monsters once you learn what they are. 540 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:46,440 So it becomes this sort of really intricate dance of like 541 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,800 in the moment understanding that there are like things you can do 542 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,240 as you learn what the monster is doing. 543 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,840 And by accessing like the incredible amount of build 544 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,520 variety that the game allows by using all the different weapons 545 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,240 and equipment and spells and stuff like that that you've got 546 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:06,760 access to, there's actually like a super in depth compat system, 547 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,120 which is just completely unlike anything someone has ever 548 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,120 attempted to write. Best of buried like maybe tries 549 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,000 to start doing some of that, but like this is these monsters are 550 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,320 like incredibly intricate and difficult. 551 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,680 And once you get to the final like boss fights like the six 552 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,880 big bods that you're trying to kill or their various powerful 553 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,080 servants, like each of them starts breaking the rules and 554 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,840 messing with the mechanics in new ways. 555 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,320 You know, and there are like 100 something monsters in this 556 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,680 campaign or working on right now and that you know, adventure 557 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:48,480 that we put in the quick start. The sort of 90 Page 1 is like 558 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,360 maybe 3 or 4000 words of the five of the 50,000 word 559 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,960 adventure. It is like an absolutely tiny 560 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,120 equivalent. It is the equivalent of a Dark 561 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,280 Souls of like maybe getting as far as Undead Burg or something 562 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,920 like that. The very first area and what you 563 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,480 get in terms of options outside that is just going to be 564 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,000 staggering. I'm going to be so excited to 565 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,800 like see people play and interact with it because it's 566 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,240 really just got some incredibly cool stuff in terms of like 567 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:25,080 vibes and the law, right? And the secrets that people are 568 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:26,720 going to be able to learn and interact with. 569 00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:32,600 But also some utterly epic, mind bending boss fights that I'm so 570 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,040 excited for other people to experience the same way that we 571 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,600 have while writing and play testing it. 572 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,440 So yeah, it's just going to be epic really. 573 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,320 Like, I'm so excited. Yeah, I mean it it you know, 574 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,840 like we've all said at this point, it's it's a crunchier 575 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,680 game than so Muppets ever put out, but it still feels so 576 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,800 Muppet like a it's got D sixes, which I'm pretty sure just about 577 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,080 every game y'all put out is is D6 based. 578 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,800 Yeah, I, I, I like the dice that people have in their house for 579 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,880 playing Monopoly with. It's my favorite dice, you know, 580 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,440 D sixes are are are are the are the best in my in my opinion. 581 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,480 But one of the things I asked a while ago that is just kind of 582 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,360 coming up again is is, you know, emulating system versus 583 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,240 emulating the vibes of the system and position. 584 00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:21,800 When I read that in quick start was one of those things where I 585 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:26,480 was like, yes, like this is this is how this works in my head, 586 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,440 right? Where it's like if you actually 587 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,520 had minis on a board playing this game, I think it would give 588 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,120 it such a completely different feel and needing to worry about 589 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,160 my guy is, you know, five blocks away instead of three blocks 590 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,840 away and stuff like that. Because in Dark Souls, I've 591 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,840 played Dark Souls and one of the things I learned, and maybe it's 592 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:47,760 wrong because I definitely have played as much as you guys, but 593 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,640 a lot of times like you want to be close to the guy when until 594 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:52,960 you don't want to be close to the guy. 595 00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:56,800 But realistically, like the distance between I want to be 596 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,440 close and I need to be very far away doesn't often matter except 597 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,720 in those, you know, those times. So playing the position when I 598 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:07,000 read that I was like this, this makes sense to me where I can 599 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,920 just know like I am not necessarily the position doesn't 600 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,520 matter necessarily my physical position, but more of like the 601 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,920 vibe of where I'm at in the battle being the important part 602 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,040 of it. And having like the vibes of the 603 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:26,360 mechanics, I think is such a smart way to, to emulate video 604 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,280 games when it's impossible to emulate video games onto the 605 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,520 table because of the way that like electronic works And, and 606 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,200 you know, the, the kind of the limit that video games puts on 607 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,120 the limitless world that teach RPGs has. 608 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,160 So being able to be like this feels like that without being 609 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,120 that feels really fucking cool. And that's one thing I noticed 610 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:53,880 throughout the entire system was what to me look like, how not do 611 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,040 I do what they're doing, but how do I do something that feels 612 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,240 like what they're doing, which just feels really, really cool. 613 00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:10,280 Yeah, absolutely. Like trying to nail, like you 614 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,000 say, it's just the way it feels rather than the actual thing 615 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:18,120 itself. Because yeah, like you say, if 616 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,080 you if you were to do it with minis on the board, it's just 617 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:25,240 going to end with like, I shuffle my guy half a centimeter 618 00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:28,560 this and then and this guy is going to turn 30°. 619 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,720 It's just you get bogged down doing the wrong thing where you 620 00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:34,200 just want to be able to like kind of get to the electric bit 621 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:39,400 and and find the excitement rather than having to add up 622 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,320 lots of integers or do little minute movements. 623 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,560 And that's definitely part of part of the design goals that we 624 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:52,160 had. It's interesting how, you know, 625 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,760 especially for the 5E pill out there, like how important minis 626 00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,520 and battle maps and everything are when at least for from From, 627 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,160 I wasn't alive playing the games in, you know, 1978 or whatever. 628 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,120 But I'm pretty sure they just did theater to the mind for a 629 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,840 really long time. And that was kind of the focus 630 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:09,720 of the way the rules worked. And you just kind of like had an 631 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:12,760 understanding of it. So being able to kind of step 632 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,960 back from that, like if I want to play a skirmish game, I'll 633 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,120 play a skirmish game. And I feel like if you did put 634 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,640 minis in this, that's what you would end up with here is you 635 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,960 would end up with feeling like a skirmish game and then having to 636 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,280 worry about like activating your guy or, or or, you know, having 637 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,440 a whole thing, which would also be fun if it was its own thing. 638 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:35,040 But keeping it, you know, kind of the trad mixed with story 639 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,240 bits, which again, also feels like a soul Muppet thing, I 640 00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:41,520 think continues to make this feel like a soul muppet thing, 641 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:46,160 which is really neat. So going back to all the cool 642 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:51,080 bits over on the Kickstarter page, we've already talked about 643 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:57,720 the insane book and how cool that's going to look, but you 644 00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:03,080 guys funded day one or two with. The day one it. 645 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,760 Was about four hours or something. 646 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,320 Yeah, like congratulations. Very happy to have got that 647 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,560 success early on. Yeah, I think according to the 648 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,680 American numbers, you've you've double funded at this point. 649 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,600 You've now reached the goal twice. 650 00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:28,520 That's 40,000 UK or 40,000 American and 30,000 UKI guess in 651 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:33,680 pounds. But when people back this 652 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,080 project, what you know, we've talked about the dice a little 653 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:37,080 bit, we've talked about the crazy book. 654 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,560 What all can people get? What all can people expect from 655 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,440 from Doom Spiral? Yeah, so as well as all the sort 656 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,280 of traditional pleasures when you've got like the initial 657 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,440 physical and then the the PDF pledges as well, there's free 658 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,360 PDFs of all the physical purchases that we do just 659 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:54,720 because that's how someone does things. 660 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,840 We've acknowledged that like the characters are slightly more 661 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,280 complicated in this game and they would be in a in, in like 662 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,320 something like orbital Blues. So there's in it, there's going 663 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,120 to be a proper explicit character sheet. 664 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,520 We're designing we I've done like a preview version that 665 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,520 works for the for the quick start, but it's going to be like 666 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,120 expanded out to be slightly longer with lots of rooms for 667 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,120 like capability and note taking and stuff like that. 668 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,120 And what then follows on from that is also we've had a 669 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:30,760 gorgeous cloth map designed by Fernando Salvatera, who's like 670 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,120 working at that moment. You can see some of the early 671 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,400 sketches for that and the light will not sketches the line work 672 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,360 actually for a bunch of those sections on the we got those 673 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,440 final sketches who today actually, which Nick needs to 674 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:47,680 review after this call. Those are the main thing as 675 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:48,960 well. And as well as the dice. 676 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,560 We also had a selection of really beautiful handmade batik 677 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,840 cloth banners that are artists Twin did. 678 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,400 We've already talked about doing yet, but they're just a a. 679 00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:03,240 Crime on our part, really. Certainly the the other big 680 00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:08,360 pillar of this game. Has been the art for as well. 681 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,800 And yeah, but those banners went pretty much immediately. 682 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,520 Why didn't charge enough money for one. 683 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,560 Happy to put that on my to wear that on my hat now. 684 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,320 But yeah, So, yeah, but the art for the game has been like a 685 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:28,280 really big standpoint as we met to win at UK Games Expo about a 686 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,960 year ago where they were running like that. 687 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,280 Obviously a very talented, you know, traditional and digital 688 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:39,880 artist and was running a docs a lot of sorry, a an art stand at 689 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,960 games Expo, which was mostly selling Dark Souls fan art and 690 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,640 you know, lots of other really cools as well. 691 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,160 But the stuff that jumped out to me and Nick immediately was like 692 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,080 Dark Souls fan art. We were like, oh, this is the 693 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,880 artist we want project. And once we said to Dwayne, hey, 694 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:59,400 we want to make a Dark Souls like RPG with and you to do all 695 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,280 the drawing for it. It was it was the fastest I've 696 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:04,680 ever seen someone sign a contract. 697 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,400 You know, it was like we were talking for like maybe two days 698 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,120 before they agreed to do like 80 pieces of art for us. 699 00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:17,680 It was a stunning display. And like their stuff has just 700 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,400 been like, I think in the same way that like Nick and I really, 701 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:26,280 really love these games and like understand a lot of like what 702 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,120 the vibes are. We just started like speaking in 703 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,040 tongues to each other. Like the art direction of this 704 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,520 game has been super weird. Like there's been a lot of stuff 705 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,200 that wouldn't make sense to you if you're an all person just 706 00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:39,080 like, Oh yeah, like this, like like this bit, you know, it's 707 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,760 like that bit plus this and then mixed in with that and then add 708 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,600 some Norse rude carvings and a particle accelerator, you know, 709 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:50,480 like it just works. And it's such a a fun person to 710 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,760 collaborate with as well because they're just so excited about 711 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,280 the stuff we're making. It's great, yeah. 712 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,040 It's been really been really fun to to to work with it. 713 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,560 You know, one of the the my favorite artist relationship 714 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,000 I've had certainly in the last yes. 715 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:10,160 Yeah, the art is is insane. So, so you, it's one artist for 716 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,720 the for everything all the way through the book then. 717 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,200 Other than this map that we mentioned, yeah, pretty much. 718 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,960 Yeah, apart from the map, which is like a little bit outside 719 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,720 their skill set. Yeah, one artist all the way 720 00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:26,440 through for the whole book, which is like how we like to do 721 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,800 things as saw Muppet generally, you know. 722 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,920 The the the code, the coherence of cohesiency is is is really 723 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:35,280 great. And the pieces that are on the 724 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,200 Kickstarter page are fantastic. The pieces I got in like the the 725 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,920 art folder from mall are are absolutely stunning. 726 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,200 So yeah, good call on good call on that one. 727 00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:47,520 I think you definitely hit the vibes on this one, which you 728 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:48,920 also did great with inevitable too. 729 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,200 I think you maybe you just have a good eye repeating artist for 730 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:56,120 the vibes of your games, which I mean, and then I mean don't even 731 00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:00,480 start on the orbital Blues, which have some of those vibes 732 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,440 for games of of anything on the shelf back there. 733 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,520 But so that's that's kind of the the the book is really the core 734 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:08,720 of it. You know, you guys are doing 735 00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:12,480 dice and and the banners were a thing, but you're not doing a 736 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,520 1,000,000 bells and whistles with this project, right. 737 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,480 The focus is kind of more on this like big gorgeous book and, 738 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:22,480 and and really packing it right. The book and the world itself 739 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,480 were ambitious enough for us as is. 740 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,760 We might do a couple of small ZS if we hit some really high 741 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,920 stretch goals. Like we've had a lot of people 742 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,680 asking for solo rules, so we might try to put that together. 743 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,960 But like, I doubt things will be that complicated. 744 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,600 You know which you just want to get this main book out the door 745 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,360 because it's it's a big book and it's been, it's taken a lot of 746 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,240 Nick and I's attention over the last year and a half to get it. 747 00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:53,400 To get it, yeah. Like because we, we just want 748 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,680 to, I think, I think we mentioned though, we want it to 749 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,160 be like just the complete package. 750 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,880 Because if you're going to get a big book like that, you don't 751 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,680 want to have to do a whole heap of other stuff kind of on top of 752 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,720 it. So we want the, the rules to be 753 00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:12,160 really like robust and as succinct as they can be. 754 00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:17,040 And then this sprawling campaign that you can you can just read 755 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:18,760 off and go bam, bam, bam and just go through it. 756 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:25,520 Or you can really dig into it. But we didn't want you to have 757 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,400 to like choose. Oh, well, I want XY and said to 758 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:34,960 put that together to actually make something that works where 759 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,000 we just want to don't put it on the table. 760 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,360 Let's go, boys and girls. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like 761 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,920 with the size, I mean, even just the size of the invention, the 762 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,840 quick start, which by the way, is free, like on the website for 763 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,960 Soul Muppet and you can download it off the Kickstarter page. 764 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,280 But it's just Soul Muppet Dash Store Dash Co Dash UK. 765 00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,400 And that link will be where links are on the Internet 766 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,520 whenever you see this video. But again, it's created, it is 767 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,240 an 88 page quick start. It is way more than enough to 768 00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:06,480 play the game. So I can't imagine if you said 769 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,720 that that is like a fraction of of what the campaign is going to 770 00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:11,480 be. You pretty much are just going 771 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,320 to need the campaign because you're going to be locked up in 772 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,280 that for a while. But you did talk about stretch 773 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,200 goals at one point. And I know there are a couple 774 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,360 for the project that you've already reached. 775 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,520 So what are the stretch goals for the project And and and the 776 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,840 next one looks like coming up as as you continue to fund? 777 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,400 So the first two we did were both extra MPCS we were going to 778 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,400 add to the game. Nick wanted to write a guy 779 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,320 called Motley the Crow, and I'm doing a guy called Angmere of 780 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,320 Bassingat. Am I saying that right, Nick? 781 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,200 Yeah, yeah. Sure. 782 00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,800 Absolutely. And and those have both been 783 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:48,600 funded. Now. 784 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:53,400 Next up on the list is a, I'm writing a sort of like how to 785 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,600 write your own Doom Spiral content bit just like a couple 786 00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,640 pages that are like, hey, if you want to add some more stuff onto 787 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,160 this or home brew your own thing or write your own campaign from 788 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,400 scratch. Here's like a bunch of advice 789 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,120 that I, I can give because like Nick's obviously written this 790 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,480 whole campaign from scratch and it's come very naturally to him 791 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,360 as I've had to, I've had to work to learn how to, to make douche 792 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,200 viral, you know, in someone else's image specifically. 793 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,520 And it's got a bunch of worked examples from a adventure that I 794 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,080 started writing but kind of haven't learned to finish in 795 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:30,280 time for the project called Curse Rotten Corvast. 796 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,720 Maybe we'll like be able to address that in a future stretch 797 00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:36,000 goal. But after that one, which is a 798 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:43,040 40K, so I guess like $55,000, maybe something like that, we'll 799 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,560 be doing a just a stretch called pay rise for our collaborators, 800 00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,360 which is like a super important thing for us to do. 801 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,600 When the project does well, we want the people we're working 802 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:56,080 with to share in that success. And then after that, anything's 803 00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,960 possible. Who knows, solo rules, maybe 804 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,440 I'll be allowed to finish the adventure that I've written 805 00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,080 about 10,000 words of. Who knows? 806 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,760 Anything's possible, but we've got some more exciting stuff and 807 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,920 for the future. Yeah, I mean, there is. 808 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:13,880 Damn, I don't know why I felt like this has been going for a 809 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:14,920 while. Maybe this because it's been 810 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,360 funded the entire time. There's still 20 days, there's 811 00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,120 almost three weeks left on this campaign. 812 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,360 And once again, you guys are already Yeah, yeah, like almost 813 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:28,080 three stretch goals in and and funded on on day one. 814 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,760 And are are. What is the percentage when you 815 00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:36,640 fund it twice? The 200 Yeah 2. 100% is that how 816 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,760 math works? Cuz my brain just went that 817 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,800 doesn't feel right I guess. I mean so 200% funded on a 818 00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,480 project and again, the 2nd Kickstarter of the year with 819 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,200 Paint the Town Red coming out soon. 820 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,000 Mad as Hell still in the works. Doom Spiral is still in the 821 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,320 works. So you're doing your darndest to 822 00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,280 stay busy is what it fucking sounds like. 823 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,120 So is there Beyond? You thought there's a big ass 824 00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,280 project coming in March next year, and then October the year 825 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,560 after that, and then March the year after that. 826 00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:10,160 On October that same year, you know, I'll be going into our 827 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:14,240 drop dead or, you know, so we'll be making games all the time and 828 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,760 you know I won't be able to write all of them, but I'm going 829 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,840 to do my damnedest. I will, I will. 830 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,120 I will continue to clear shelves out of the way and keep putting 831 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,440 stuff in boxes to make room. But So what? 832 00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:31,560 What is there anything on the horizon, new new or new old that 833 00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,320 that that is coming, you know, something like an afterburn for 834 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,560 orbital Blues again or, or anything else or is a focus more 835 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:46,120 on future projects? We've done our we've had our 836 00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,680 little time of not doing any Orbital Blue stuff and making 837 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:51,680 new games. You know, it'll have been three 838 00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,000 projects since our last Orbital Blues 1. 839 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:59,040 So I think I'm safe to say that in March this year, you can 840 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,520 expect Orbital Threes. Will it be as ambitious as 841 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,960 Afterburn? No, because that was too much 842 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:08,320 work. It took too much time to 843 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,640 fulfill. Sam and Josh have already 844 00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:14,240 started writing and doing art, but there's something else 845 00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:18,440 coming in that period which is so Muppet related and is Orbital 846 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:23,000 Blues related that I think I might have told you in person, 847 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:24,800 but I am not going to say on this podcast. 848 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:26,680 There's more. There's secrets coming. 849 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,640 And after that, who knows what will be October next year. 850 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,720 All I can say is I've personally started writing many standards 851 00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:39,120 of epic poetry to facilitate this gameplay. 852 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,160 I feel like that's like one of the least surprising things I 853 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,760 could hear you say is that I've written stones of epic poetry. 854 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,760 But be I'm sure you told me and I'm sure as soon as this call 855 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:51,880 ends, I'll be like, what was it again? 856 00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:53,600 And it'll be like, ah, yes, that's what it was. 857 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,880 But you know, as long as you are willing to come and talk about 858 00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,360 it, anyone that is a sole mother fan can always find some of it 859 00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,120 here talking about the projects. Someone in chat just said solo 860 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,760 rules hype. So I think I think people want 861 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:08,400 that. I think the. 862 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,520 So keep asking. Solo rules is absolutely not 863 00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,400 the. Loneliness epidemic is real a 864 00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,160 lot of people. Yeah, no, I hear it. 865 00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:18,640 I hear it. Yeah. 866 00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:23,280 We've, we we are working out how to look after you person and 867 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,960 other people who want solo rules. 868 00:54:26,240 --> 00:54:27,720 It's just not something we've planned. 869 00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,120 We've been making this game for a really long time. 870 00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,440 And like, Nick and I aren't solo rules guys, you know, I don't 871 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:36,120 play solo games. I don't think you do either, 872 00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:36,640 Nick. Correct. 873 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:43,720 No, the only one I really did get into for a bit was 1000 year 874 00:54:43,720 --> 00:54:46,800 old Vampire, but specifically because I was playing it with a 875 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,960 friend. Or rather, we sent each other 876 00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:54,640 letters about our games of 1000 year old Vampire, so even that 877 00:54:54,640 --> 00:55:00,400 wasn't hugely solo. But we we, we have a solo games 878 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,000 guy. We will hear shortly from our 879 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:07,240 solo games guy and then maybe there'll be some solo game 880 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:08,760 content. That's what I was going to say 881 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:13,080 is just I mean you, you the wonderer was was not y'all just 882 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,640 find someone who really excited that is like I'm working on one 883 00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:17,200 and be like all right, cool, that looks good. 884 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,280 We'll just we'll just take that one and and just kind of go from 885 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:25,080 there. But but yeah, so that is doom 886 00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:26,200 spiral. That's what's coming up. 887 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,160 It's there's still 20 days left in the campaign and once again, 888 00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:33,720 there's still like a plethora of stuff both new and old from soul 889 00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:36,480 Muppet on the on the website. And we'll make that make sure 890 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,560 that that's all where those links are. 891 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,720 But where can people find you guys? 892 00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:43,440 We're going to people find you Zach, you Nick and and Soul 893 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,960 Muppet as a whole to grab all of this stuff that I have on my 894 00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,720 shelf here. So. 895 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,680 I'll let you feel. The First Web Store and the Doom 896 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,920 Spiral Quick Start and also Campaign page are the places to 897 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:00,960 find the games you've been talking about most recently. 898 00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:04,160 You can get copies of all the other games that Ryan has on his 899 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:08,920 shelf from our web store, which ships for both from the UK and 900 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:11,800 the US, so we can get you books relatively cheaply wherever you 901 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,840 are. I personally am Zack or the 902 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,200 Jelly Muppet. You can find me at at Jelly 903 00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,680 Muppet on most platforms apart from Instagram. 904 00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:24,040 Where I am at, Muppet makes minis where you can only find my 905 00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:29,640 Warhammer kit bashes and none of my What about you Nick? 906 00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:37,800 A lot of my stuff is on solar, as I've said, so that's a good 907 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,200 way to do it. Get Doom Spiral. 908 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:44,360 It's pretty good out here. But I in terms of me 909 00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,560 specifically, I'm at the expense on Blue Sky. 910 00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,120 The other kind of thing that I have cooking, it's called a 911 00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,680 heist game. It's a OSR styles kind of 912 00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,360 medieval crime game that's cooking. 913 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:04,720 It's not quite done, but I will shout about it when it is. 914 00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,800 Well, make sure you shout at us about it and and maybe we can 915 00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,160 have a chat about about that. Hell yeah. 916 00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,000 Again, Zach, always a pleasure having you on, Nick. 917 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,560 It's very nice to meet you. I'm a big games. 918 00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:20,960 I'm a big gangs Titan city fan, I do. 919 00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:24,280 Thank you so much. So just everything else. 920 00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,040 So it was a pleasure to to get a chance to talk with you. 921 00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,680 We'll make sure that everything that we just had all the links 922 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,760 to these these wonderful people. And where you can find this 923 00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,080 stuff is again in the description below because that's 924 00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,400 how the Internet works. But seriously, thank you guys so 925 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,040 much for being here. And and that is going to be us 926 00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,160 for today. So we will see you all later. 927 00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:44,080 Bye. Thanks. 928 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:46,840 So much for having us on. Thank you. 929 00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:47,640 Ciao. Ciao.