1 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,560 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll Podcast. 2 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,760 My name is Ryan and joining me today is Matt of Protagonist 3 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:21,760 Games. How you doing this morning, 4 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,760 Matt? Hey, pretty well. 5 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,720 Thank you and yourself. Not too bad, not too bad. 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:29,320 This is always the the weird part of the show where we 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,600 realize we've been talking for like 45 minutes and we have to 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,840 pretend we're just getting on. But it's always a great part. 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,680 So, so it's great to have you on. 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,560 We've been talking for a while. Played played a game that we're 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,560 going to talk about a little bit more buff this 2141 that's going 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,560 to be dropping very, very soon. So it's I guess the second time 13 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,600 we've actually I just in my head was like, oh, this is the first 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,240 time we're actually talking to each other in person. 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:53,840 No, when we played the game we were actually on. 16 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:56,480 But but it's great to have you here. 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,240 I'm very excited for this game. And I guess before we get going 18 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,959 here, why don't why don't you tell us who who the heck is Matt 19 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,720 Brereton? What is Protagonist games? 20 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,760 Yeah, so, so Protagonist Games is the sort of company that I've 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,200 set up to publish buff this 2141. 22 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,600 And so really like as I went down the road of developing the 23 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,880 game, I didn't really know how far it was going to go. 24 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,760 I just kind of wanted to see, OK, what can I do? 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:30,760 At what point am I going to stop? 26 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:32,280 And I haven't actually hit that point. 27 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,560 And Protagonist Games is a way for me to to work on the game, 28 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,920 to publish it, to release it. And we'll also act as a 29 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,560 mechanism for future games and future rule sets. 30 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,120 So, and this is going to be your first game that you're putting 31 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,000 out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 32 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,840 So I think it really started to come into conception around the 33 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,120 beginning of last year and started to take it a little bit 34 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,440 more seriously once I sort of thought I'd happened on a good 35 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:07,480 mechanic and a good play loop. And so it's been just a huge 36 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,039 learning curve, which has been a lot of fun as well, though. 37 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,800 Yeah, no, absolutely. And before we get all the way to 38 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:16,680 there, because obviously a big chunk of this episode we're 39 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,280 going to be talking about buff this, what what got you into 40 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,440 kind of war gaming in the first place? 41 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:28,000 Yeah, so I when I was younger, I mean, I'm old now, I remember I 42 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:34,520 was very much into Magic the Gathering and Warhammer, but 43 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,200 without the guidance or structure. 44 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,640 So like I was, I guess 10, 10 when I started sort of delving 45 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:44,240 into that world. So I'd see this cool stuff in 46 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,880 shops, I would buy some of the cool stuff in the shops, but 47 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,360 then I wouldn't really know where what to do with it. 48 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,360 I remember spray pasting metal models with like the old rattle 49 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,000 cans in my, in my garage. And then because there was no 50 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,360 sort of community around me, it kind of, I found skateboarding, 51 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,400 I found going out and causing trouble. 52 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,800 And that took up like the next sort of 20 years of my life more 53 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,280 or less. And then I guess it was probably 54 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:17,560 just before COVID or maybe maybe just after I forget I, I'd had 55 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,840 board games and stuff leading up to this and I decided I wanted 56 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,720 to paint some zombie side models. 57 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,200 And then I thought, oh, it'd be quite nice to go down the road 58 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,080 of looking at Kill Team and some of the GW models because the 59 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,800 scopes were way better than the stuff come on games is putting 60 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,320 out right? And it's kind of snowballed from 61 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,040 there. I think that the one thing I 62 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,520 would say is though I didn't spend a lot of time in GW 63 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:52,400 ecosystem like quite, I think I was, I was speaking to what's 64 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,040 his name? It's going to kill me. 65 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,720 But I was chatting with somebody today and I was saying I was 66 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,200 quite fortunate that the very first Kill Team was hot trash. 67 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,840 So I played it. It absolutely put me off. 68 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,120 And then I started looking at other rule sets and I think it 69 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,360 was the Weld. So finding the Weld on Instagram 70 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,480 and that Discord server really started to throw me into the 71 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,680 whole Ink 28 scene. The alternative side of of war 72 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,760 gaming. Yeah, that's great to to start 73 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,400 there. I feel like so obviously, you 74 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,280 know, we've been doing the podcast more teach RPG's for for 75 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:33,000 quite a long time, only recently over the last year getting into 76 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,800 scrimmage games. And it feels like there is like 77 00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:39,120 a lot of similarities between the, the scrimmage side and the 78 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,440 TRPG side specifically. And like, you know, like teach 79 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,280 RPGs, there's D&D is like the monolith that everything is kind 80 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:49,360 of under. And in skirmish you got GW and 81 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,520 Warhammer, which you know, then you got like the OSR scene and, 82 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,920 and, and the kind of various other scenes and then you got 83 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,240 like the 828 scene and, and things like that. 84 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,600 So there's some commonalities between the two. 85 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,600 So it's always interesting hearing, you know, so many 86 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,080 people on the TRPG side saying, oh, well, I started with D&D, 87 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:08,520 kind of went from there. And so many people, you know, 88 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,720 going, oh, well, I started with Warhammer and kind of went from 89 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,040 there. Anytime you can find someone 90 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,680 that just kind of like skips that it was like, I never really 91 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,640 played D&D or I never really played Warhammer. 92 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,000 I jumped into something else. It's always a great place to 93 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:21,400 start. Like I obviously, you know, I 94 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,560 started with D&D, but in skirmish I immediately was like, 95 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,760 you know, jumping into the weird stuff because that's what was 96 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,520 introduced to with people. And that's just a great place to 97 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,640 be, especially right now. There's so much cool stuff 98 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:36,920 blossoming in the ink 28 and and indie scene in in the skirmish 99 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:38,760 world, you know, one of which is is your game. 100 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,120 I'm very excited to to to run and play and talk about that a 101 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,880 little bit more. But what you know, you said you 102 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,320 started getting into the freak shit. 103 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,480 What made you want to actually write a game? 104 00:05:52,440 --> 00:06:01,080 Yeah, so I, I've been playing Forbidden Psalm as the as a so, 105 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,360 so one other aspect is so I'm, I'm a dad, I've got young kids. 106 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,640 So solo war gaming is something that I do quite regularly. 107 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,800 And one of the games that I was running solo was Forbidden 108 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,600 Psalm. And I thought like, you know, 109 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,440 this is great. We've got these scenarios and I 110 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,720 wanted to try and create my own scenarios. 111 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,200 So I started to write those and it got to a point where I 112 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,080 thought, oh, like I've, I've got sort of ideas and setting ideas 113 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,360 and I wanted to see really how far I could go. 114 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,000 And I essentially started to just reskin forbidden psalms. 115 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,240 And I was like, OK, well, this is, this is good, right? 116 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,960 I'm sort of getting my creative juices flowing by sort of coming 117 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,560 up with some something thematic and but I really wanted to, I 118 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,560 decided I wanted to make something different. 119 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,480 So rather than just reskin the game, I think actually 120 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:58,160 previously previous to that as well, 5 parsecs, which is a a 121 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:03,160 great, great solo system. And I reskinned that very badly, 122 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:09,120 I may add, into GW Law because I wanted to run like I wanted the 123 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,600 five parsecs system, but I wanted to run inquisitors. 124 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,960 I think I've been reading some of the the GW Law like Eisenhorn 125 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,800 and it's sort of got my fires stoked around that. 126 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,840 So I suppose reskinning 5 parsecs and then starting to 127 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,480 write my own scenarios and that really pushed me towards OK, 128 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,680 well what do I want to do with this? 129 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,080 I started to think about the games quite critically. 130 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,560 Yeah, it's so so you were specifically just doing the 131 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,680 lore. You weren't trying to hack like 132 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,840 Inquisitor, the game, you know, kind of like that started all in 133 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,400 28. Yeah, so it was for, yes. 134 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,760 So for five parsecs, it was basically reskinning the tables. 135 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,720 So if you've read through that rule set, there are a lot of 136 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,680 tables. So it was horrible to be quite 137 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,520 frank, because you're going through looking at the stats, 138 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,560 changing the names. But it's important because for 139 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,840 that game, everything's procedurally generated, so 140 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,720 you're rolling on the table to see, you know, what enemies 141 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,800 you're going to encounter. What is the sort of the the 142 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,680 setup for the particular scenario you're been gone? 143 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:23,040 And so I needed the tables to be as relevant as possible. 144 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,520 I funny thing as well. So I spent maybe, I don't know, 145 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,040 a month on and off reskinning it, and then I played it once or 146 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,960 twice and moved on to something else. 147 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:42,000 As we are want to do so you I feel like most people are kind 148 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,840 of fantasy or kind of more sci-fi like obviously there's 149 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,280 crossover between the two, but you know a lot of people lean 150 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,160 one way or the other. Often you seem to lean pretty 151 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:52,560 heavy sci-fi. You know, you're talking about 152 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:54,720 reskinning 5 parsecs to play Inquisitor. 153 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,200 And if you really look at Inquisitor or like Negarmundo or 154 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,360 like a lot of that, because there are a lot of times they're 155 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,240 in the hive world, you know, Inquisitor, there's a lot of 156 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,000 like, you know, 40K without the space Marines. 157 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,880 But if you, if you scrape off a little bit of the grime, that's 158 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:08,920 really kind of just cyberpunk kind of. 159 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:14,000 So what what do you think kind of draws you to that kind of 160 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,720 lower section of the hobby? I don't know. 161 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,160 That's a really deep question. Let's see if I can come up with 162 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,040 a good answer for that. I, I say I can't come up with a 163 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,520 good answer for it, but it's just cool, right? 164 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,440 There's something about it that really tickles me. 165 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,440 I think it's very chic. I like the whole sort of, I 166 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,600 mean, when you look at like movies like Blade Runner, I, I 167 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,880 like noir as a setting, right? And I think a lot of cyberpunk, 168 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,160 a lot of the stories that are involved within those kinds of 169 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,760 settings, they have that noir element to them, as some of 170 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,440 William Gibson's books lean to that effectively. 171 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,600 It's a detective setup, but in the future. 172 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,200 And that's always struck me as something that I enjoy. 173 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,800 Yeah, it's so interesting that that I guess that whole thing is 174 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,040 definitely very much a genre that like, instead of like the 175 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,560 detective noir, how much good cyberpuck noir you get. 176 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,800 And I assume so much that is derived from from Gibson 177 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,120 because, you know, Blade Runner wouldn't exist without that, 178 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,280 obviously. And so many of the other kind 179 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:22,960 of, I guess like cyberpunk movies, like even like Johnny 180 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,480 Mnemonic and things like that, you know, obviously wouldn't 181 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,240 exist without without William Gibson. 182 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,240 So it's really cool that it came out that way. 183 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,520 It's also really interesting to live in the future now and see 184 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,760 how much they got right, but also how much is completely 185 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,840 wrong about the future of technology. 186 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,520 I think a lot of people miss the parasocialism that apparently 187 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,760 exists once we stop having human interaction. 188 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,520 But but no, it it's it's really great and you can tell in buff 189 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,480 this 2141 like in this, it feels like a noir game. 190 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,680 It feels like even as I was describing it to to hunter after 191 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:58,200 you and I played it, it feels very much like kind of like a 192 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,200 noir spy versus spy thing. Like you're a detective found 193 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,200 like my guy. And you know, we're having this 194 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,640 like very like Blade Runner at the very end kind of thing on 195 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:11,480 the top of a of a of a building and a lot of the influences that 196 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,560 you've written down in the in the game, because I did get to 197 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:17,320 take a peek at it. A lot of the movies and stuff 198 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,520 very much shine through. So I guess what you know, you 199 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,840 said you were adapting the inquisitor lore to five parsecs. 200 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,160 Where did that lead into into buff this? 201 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,960 Yeah. So to be quite frank, I don't, I 202 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,240 don't think there was a very Direct Line because so when I 203 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,960 did that project, there was maybe, I don't know, half a year 204 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,200 until I started working on writing scenarios Forbidden 205 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,080 Psalm and then again after, after I'd done that. 206 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:47,840 And these were just for myself, right? 207 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,600 None of those are released or published. 208 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,280 I think they're probably on Word documents somewhere on my 209 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,440 computer. And again, there was probably a 210 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,800 longer period of a reasonable period of time between that and 211 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,400 starting both this. And I think I had the inkling I 212 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,360 wanted to make like an arena shooter initially. 213 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,400 And so I started writing rules down for this and it's started 214 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,560 to get too complicated for me to actually, I was like, I want to 215 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:15,560 throw all these rules in, but I can't figure out a way to make 216 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:18,560 them work. So I put it down for, I don't 217 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:22,920 know, three or four months. And I think it's probably out 218 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,000 running. And I had like a, you know, a 219 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,480 tweak of an idea And I thought about how a lot of the time in 220 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,400 war games, there's especially with the bigger war games, 221 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,400 right, A lot of the game is the list building right to start off 222 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,480 with. And a lot of, you know, a lot of 223 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,000 the time as well, you can win or lose based on what list you've 224 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,120 built quite easily. And then effectively when models 225 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,080 are on the table to some extent, where they are on that table 226 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,160 don't doesn't matter so much. It's just more of a here, here 227 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,320 is my list and I'm going to roll some dice to see if they passed. 228 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,160 And for me, a war game, the fact that you've got physical 229 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,280 miniatures on the table, always wanted, always felt like it 230 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,240 should be making the most of that. 231 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:13,120 So really what I'm looking for is like lots of movement and 232 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,040 lots of interaction within the game. 233 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:20,880 And I had the, I had the idea of interactive tokens, right? 234 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,440 So we've taken the idea of the arena shooter. 235 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,720 I wanted ways to power up and level up your, your character, 236 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,600 your model throughout the game and I kind of just really 237 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,280 focused in on that during the creation of both this. 238 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,240 Yeah, because it's I mean pretty much the polar opposite of like 239 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,240 a big list building army game. You literally have like one guy 240 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:45,960 and you don't there is no character creation like you just 241 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,280 kind of you start with the thing, which is fantastic. 242 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,920 Like I love it. So for for those that haven't, 243 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,280 we should really talk about what you been doing with the 244 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:57,480 Kickstarter. So we will. 245 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,040 So we're going to get above this in a little bit. 246 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,960 So you launched, you did something that I haven't seen 247 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,920 anybody else do, which I think is incredibly clever. 248 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,600 And I'm curious what started it. You launched the prepaid for the 249 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:15,320 Kickstarter a while ago and I did not know that you could send 250 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,760 out updates before the Kickstarter launched. 251 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,720 So you for a long time, I don't know if you've still been doing 252 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,320 it. We're sending out like biweekly 253 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:29,640 updates before the Kickstarter even went live in in a, in a 254 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,120 good way, like why? Like what, what, what even lets 255 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,960 you know that you could do that? Because I I've backed so many 256 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,720 Kickstarters that I've never seen someone sending updates to 257 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,320 the game before the campaign even launched. 258 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,840 So what? But what kind of what, what, 259 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,000 what? It's great. 260 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,000 Why? Like what? 261 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,720 What got you Like, what have you been doing? 262 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,120 What have you been sending people leading up to the 263 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,600 campaign? Yeah, so I mean, the first thing 264 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,560 was it didn't stay bi weekly for very long because I realized 265 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,520 like I I think if I'd been earlier on in the game's 266 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,640 development, it would have been way more interesting. 267 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,440 But but really, by the time I got to Christmas of this year, I 268 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:05,920 was like, right, the bones are there. 269 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,960 It just needs some refinement. And the reason why I pushed the 270 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,080 updates really was because I noticed it was an option. 271 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,960 I thought that's that's quite cool. 272 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,120 I can, I can chat to people, I can give them an update as to 273 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,920 what I've been doing like designing T-shirts or printing 274 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,840 silly masks to take to take to some of the cons. 275 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,360 And actually I think if you look in like the the 1st 2 updates, 276 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,960 they're almost like A blog because it's not even all 277 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,720 specifically about both this, which I think is quite funny. 278 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,800 So I've got I'm going to do I haven't done one for a little 279 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,080 while. I did one after about two or 280 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,680 three weeks ago. It was after Salou, after Fringe 281 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,920 Fest, after 11 Steel. And so I'm going to do one this 282 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,560 Friday, just before the launch date on on Tuesday. 283 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,120 But but yeah, I just thought it was cool to sort of tell people, 284 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,920 OK, this is what I'm working on. And maybe some of it wasn't 285 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,160 super interesting. I think there was a lot of like, 286 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,840 hey, look, here's some merch that I've got, but I don't know 287 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,240 for me, because it's the first time that I'm going through all 288 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,240 of this. Like I'm getting really stoked 289 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,760 and really excited and I'm like, look, I've got like stickers and 290 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,320 I've got these Flyers and I've I'm going to this event and I'm 291 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,320 going to that event. So it was kind of a way to sort 292 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,160 of articulate the experience as I went through it. 293 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:34,760 I think it's such a great idea. I really, you know, this is your 294 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,880 kind of first game, the first Kickstarter that you're putting 295 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,680 out. But especially for people that 296 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,480 have a bunch of Kickstarters already that are going to have a 297 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,080 bunch of like people that have been following them for a while 298 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,640 that have a spot to follow that that's not necessarily like blue 299 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,760 sky or really social media almost using like A blog or like 300 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,480 a like a lead up into it. As I said, I haven't seen anyone 301 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,040 else do that and I hope more people do. 302 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,440 I think it's a great idea. I every time you dropped a post, 303 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,600 like again, it was, you know, you're saying, I'm so excited 304 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,680 about this. That's great to build excitement 305 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,599 leading with the Kickstarter. I mean, anyone listening, if 306 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:09,880 you're doing a Kickstarter, do that. 307 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,160 I didn't know you could. And I would love to read A blog 308 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,319 leading up to the Kickstarter and everything it it's great. 309 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,760 So, but so, so about this 2141. It's a game you're putting out. 310 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,800 So what is the quick pitch for for buff this 2141? 311 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,040 What is what is this game versus like, you know, any other 312 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,200 scrimmage game? Yeah, so I mean the five word 313 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,400 tagline is brutally dynamic single model combat, right. 314 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,480 So at a base level, there's no list building. 315 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,720 It's you're you're buffing your model stats when you're in game, 316 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,080 right. So it's very it's engaging, it's 317 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,440 it's dynamic, it changes from gate time to time. 318 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,920 It's a single model game as well. 319 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,760 So it's very relatively low investment. 320 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:01,440 And from that single model and from the quite nuanced rules, I 321 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,480 feel like it's quite, it can be turned narrative with a lot of 322 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,280 ease because you're taking much less mental task tax trying to 323 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,120 remember, OK, what is the combat modifier for this or what is my 324 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:17,120 start line for that, for that. And you're able to sort of 325 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,640 embrace the story that's unfolding on the table in front 326 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,040 of you. I think the the board size as 327 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,560 well is different. It was, it was difficult to come 328 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,400 up with a what the appropriate board size should be because a 2 329 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:36,280 by 2 for two models is quite a large open space, but also a 12 330 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:42,160 by 12 is extremely intimate. So going with the isometric sort 331 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,280 of 12 inches by 24 inches, it feels a bit counterintuitive, 332 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,560 but actually what you what it kind of generates a lot of the 333 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,640 time is a race to the middle and then this climatic battle, which 334 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,400 is which is what we found, right. 335 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,080 And you know that with with that kind of guidance, it promotes 336 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,360 the speed of the game as well, which is, you know, usually 20 337 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,240 minutes, thirty minutes if it's just one person versus one 338 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,640 person. Yeah, which is it's so great 339 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:16,200 because not only is it super dynamic and narrative, but 340 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,840 having a game that can wrap up in 20 to 30 minutes means you 341 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,680 can probably go, fuck, you want to go again like immediately 342 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,640 after and have that excitement and that little bit of a 343 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,880 learning curve, which which feels fantastic. 344 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,200 You're not stuck doing it forever. 345 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,960 And again, it's like a 1V1, you know, as we were playing it, it 346 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,200 just, it felt like every move was extremely important. 347 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,080 Like every time we were going for a buff token or every time 348 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,280 like, like I was literally like, like my man, do I do this? 349 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:43,400 Do I go for that? Do I climb? 350 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,920 Do I just get out? You're going to shoot me. 351 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,880 So I got to do this. Like there is no, I think 352 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,840 outside of like the first turn and I guess based on terrain, by 353 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,920 the second turn, if both people are really getting at each 354 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:57,840 other, you can be shooting at each other already. 355 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,200 You can already be put as much damage on. 356 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,680 It's it's really interesting and we talked about also the 357 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,280 character creation aspect of it. You're not doing any list 358 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:07,800 building, you're not doing any character creation. 359 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,280 So what what is? Because that's kind of where the 360 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,160 name comes from, like what is the character creation kind of 361 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,000 what makes it different in buff this? 362 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,200 So do you, you mean like the the unique citizen creation? 363 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,240 So like, yeah, so well, OK, so there's two things, right? 364 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:30,120 So the disparity between the models is the collection of in 365 00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:32,760 game tokens. So you have a basic stat line 366 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,840 which is set numbers. And then within the game you're 367 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,080 going to acquire a buff token which is face down. 368 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,440 And in the back of them there are they're numbered. 369 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,320 So they're numbered either 2-3 or four. 370 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,480 And then you take those numbered tokens and put them on your 371 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,480 model card underneath one of your stats and you modify your 372 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,520 stats that way. So it's, it's basically changes 373 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,000 in game as you're, as you're playing and you can know it can 374 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,200 be the luck of the draw, whether you pull A2 or A4 and it can 375 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,800 drastically change the the outcome of the game. 376 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,960 And I think this was really one of the, the one when I when I 377 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,160 had that idea, when I play tested, I was like, yeah, 378 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,800 that's, that's cool. And it's very different. 379 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,280 I will add there is so there's no list building per SE, but 380 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,440 within the campaign mechanics, there are ways to upgrade. 381 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:28,240 You gain, you gain the ability, you gain access to additional 382 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,080 rules. And so if you play both this a 383 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,800 few times and you're like, yeah, this is cool. 384 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,240 I've got the base level, the base rules down. 385 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,600 I want a bit more depth. You can, you can essentially do 386 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,400 some list building which is there are like specific upgrades 387 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,160 which will allow you to interact in different ways. 388 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:52,720 Because I thought I wanted the entry level version of the game 389 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,120 to be extremely accessible, but equally I wanted depth there as 390 00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:03,160 well for people to explore. Yeah, it's I So what I'm doing 391 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,480 right now is, is live throwing a graphic that shows the buff 392 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,000 sheet on and I'll cut to that in just a second. 393 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:16,200 Did I fix it yet? Did I fix it? 394 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:22,560 Yes, I did. OK, so I'm going to bounce to 395 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,280 that it the first time I saw this and actually figured out 396 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,440 how it worked. It's so it's so smart, it's so 397 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:29,400 clever. I love this. 398 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,000 And again, it's the whole reason that the game is done. 399 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,280 So I pulled up the graphic from the from the Kickstarter page. 400 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,080 It has the the model stat sheet on it and you have all of your 401 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,960 your like the scared like strike. 402 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,360 How can I not read this? What is the what is that? 403 00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:47,160 What is C? Condition So condition. 404 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:53,440 Condition, agility, range, energy, and damage. 405 00:22:54,160 --> 00:23:00,160 And yours and mine start as the same card and then buff tokens 406 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:03,960 are dropped around the board. And if you get to 1 of them, you 407 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,680 flip it over, see if it's a one to two or a three. 408 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,160 And then you can buff your guy by sticking your person, your, 409 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,080 your creature, your being on one of those things. 410 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,480 So I, if I flip A2, I cannot make my strike two or my 411 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,400 agility, you know, 2 or if I do my range, it's an X. 412 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,440 So if I get a two, it now becomes 4. 413 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:29,360 Like it's it, it's so clever and it's so simple and such, such a 414 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,000 good way that I was just like, oh man, like I'd never have to 415 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,080 worry about like making a war band or doing anything. 416 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,000 I can just start with my guy. And it's extremely model 417 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,920 agnostic because you have very like super lean syndicate 418 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,360 bashing and making whatever kind of crazy person you want. 419 00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:48,800 Wizzywick doesn't matter. None of it matters. 420 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,720 So it's it's it's it's so smart. Like what? 421 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,840 What was there an inspiration for this anywhere or did this 422 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:56,840 just pop out in your head really? 423 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,560 Like man, you know what, what if I, what if I, what if everyone 424 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,520 just started with the same stat line and the core, one of the 425 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,680 core loops of the game is just bluffing yourself as you, as you 426 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,840 go through it. So, so a lot of this project has 427 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,960 been working, learning to work within my own limitations. 428 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,800 And so when it started off as an arena shooter, I knew I wanted 429 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,840 like it when you're playing Halo or whatever, right? 430 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,520 There's weapon drops or there's ammo or there's health or 431 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,000 whatever. And I wanted something like 432 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,000 that. So I'd like roll tables. 433 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,240 And I at that point I was like, well, you could have tokens on 434 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,480 there and you get token and then you roll on the table and maybe 435 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,760 it's even different tokens for weapons or or health or boosts 436 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,480 or whatever. And, and like I say, I got to a 437 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,400 point where that was like just way too complicated, went away. 438 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,680 And I don't know that's where it started. 439 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,400 I want to say it's sort of a flash of inspiration. 440 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:52,160 I can't think of anything that I've sort of digested that would 441 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,200 be where I've drawn it from. So I think it's probably just 442 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,000 the euphoria, the clear headedness of going out and 443 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,680 touching grass for half an hour in the morning. 444 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,360 But yeah, it's, it's, it is, it's that the thing that I 445 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:09,960 really like about it is you enter the game completely 446 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,440 balanced, right? There's no, OK, this is better 447 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,320 than that or that is better than this. 448 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,520 It's your balance. And depending on how you play 449 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,320 that game and, and a bit of luck depends on the outcome. 450 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,640 So it's it leans very heavily into the strategy and the 451 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,200 critical thinking that you're performing while you're playing 452 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,160 the game. Yeah, because even the way the 453 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,160 buff tokens work, I, I believe it's you placed three on my 454 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,640 side, I placed three on your side, right? 455 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,160 And then they're upside down. But then when you hit the token, 456 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:41,760 it doesn't go away. It resets. 457 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,720 But you roll the dice to see how many turns for it to reset, 458 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,400 which can completely change the strategy of how you're going to 459 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,640 play the game. Because if you roll A1, you 460 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,080 might hang out so you can tag over that buff token again. 461 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,240 But if you roll A6, you could go, I'll be dead before then and 462 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,160 you can move on. But if you roll like a three, it 463 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,840 really makes you think about like, oh man, like am I going to 464 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,600 risk it or not? So I think the resource 465 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,080 management aspect of on top of like the character, you know, 466 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,200 advancement aspect on top of the strategy aspect where you go, 467 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,760 well, if I stick around for this token, I'm on low ground, 468 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,160 they're going to come in on high ground. 469 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,320 You know, it's, it's, I don't know, there's so many aspects of 470 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,240 it flow so well together. And like you said, like it 471 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,000 almost builds its own narrative without even having to do that 472 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,520 much because you're SO1V1 right on top of each other all the 473 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,520 time. The picture I I flashed up now 474 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,520 is the one we were talking about for stream start with the rain 475 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,200 in the background. It feels it feels so perfect. 476 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,640 First of all, that's like the best mini. 477 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,320 I know that's like your main guy, but it it feels exactly 478 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,040 like how we play it at the end of our first game. 479 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:49,440 That's how it ended. We literally ended up on like 480 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,120 the top of the tower of the middle of the board and I had 481 00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:59,040 run up to hit you and it was it's the best death ever because 482 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,680 I went to shove you. And then there's a rule in the 483 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,080 game where if if you win the defense on my shove, you can 484 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,000 basically just like grabbed my wrist and tossed me two inches 485 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,840 the other way, you know, and that two inches put me off the 486 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,200 edge of the building, which means I've dropped like 8 inches 487 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,320 to the ground. Splat had one HP left. 488 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,400 You jumped down after me, but I think you failed too and like 489 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,200 smashed down into the. Ground too, right? 490 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,520 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then I don't remember 491 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,160 what happened, but you got to go. 492 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,120 I think I I used so I started, I had two actions. 493 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,920 I jumped, I failed to jump. So like I shattered both of my 494 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,000 ankles. But then I still had my second 495 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,680 action and so I used that for a combat and shut you point blank 496 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,200 pretty much right? In my mind, what happened is you 497 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,440 toss me off, I smash, you know, I look up, you're coming down to 498 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,960 smash on top of me. I roll out of the way, you crush 499 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,000 down into your ankles. And then as I'm like pushing up 500 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,920 to to, you know, get up and fight you. 501 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:58,120 You're still on the ground with your gut aimed out me. 502 00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:01,000 Just shoot me. I collapse, you win and you just 503 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,760 get up, tuck the gun away, see if anyone's watching and just 504 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,120 like limp off into the darkness. And I was like, this is it was 505 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:12,880 so it felt so cool and it felt so cool to die in such like an 506 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,880 insanely cinematic way. And I don't know, you like 507 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,080 hooked me immediately. I was like, I fucking love this 508 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,880 game. After that, you know, we had 509 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,600 already been chatting a bunch. I was like, you got to come on, 510 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,320 we got to play the game. We got to like talk about this 511 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,840 stuff. I was so excited for it. 512 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,800 So hopefully people listening can sense that excitement and 513 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,520 and really get into the game. But I even just having like A1V1 514 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,680 no real setup skirmish game option because you don't need a 515 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:38,960 crazy board. I mean, your boards are 516 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,560 gorgeous. TTS board is is gorgeous as 517 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,320 well, but throw a little bit of terrain, put a little bit of 518 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,960 height in there and and just hand someone a sheet. 519 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,360 No having to do any character building, no nothing and just 520 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,720 get up and going like that. This is this is great. 521 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,840 Cereal boxes, cans of beans, pork pies, whatever you've got 522 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,400 lying around, it's all, it's all good terrain. 523 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:08,400 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so by the time this 524 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,120 episode goes live, the Kickstarter will be live. 525 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,760 Ish. So I want to hop over to that 526 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,520 page right now. Let me see how many windows I 527 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,520 need to hide to get there. Boom, we're here. 528 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,720 So the Kickstarter, you said what is today, don't worry about 529 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,200 what today is, but what is the day that the Kickstarter goes 530 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,240 live? It's the 19th of May, so next 531 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,920 Tuesday. Tuesday and then it's only going 532 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,200 to be a 24 day campaign. Yeah, I think that's right off 533 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,800 the top of my head, yeah. Cool, 6 days of stress off not 534 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,440 doing a 30 day campaign. Good call. 535 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,000 I have no idea why I picked the 24 days, but we'll we'll go with 536 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,120 that. It works. 537 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,360 Everyone I know that does a 30 says, you know, I wish it would 538 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,600 have been a little shorter because it'll drive you crazy. 539 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,720 Goals right? Around $3000. 540 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,200 I don't know what that is in in pounds. 541 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:02,400 Two 2141 lbs. So it's like 22141, yeah. 542 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,360 That's perfect. It's great. 543 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:05,280 I love it. It's silly. 544 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,200 Yeah, I love. It's perfect. 545 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,680 It's perfect. And so most of what we've talked 546 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,400 about is on the page. You got a lot of information 547 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,360 here on the page, but as far as pledge levels, as far as what 548 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,120 people can actually get when they go back to Kickstarter, 549 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,240 what can people get physically and digitally by backing the 550 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:24,840 Kickstarter? Yeah. 551 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,800 So there's there's 8 reward levels. 552 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,120 So there is a reward level for each of the physical books, for 553 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,080 each of the books rather. So there's the PDF version, 554 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,600 there's the wire a bound version, which I quite like. 555 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,200 I think I've flagged it as the player book because it's 556 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,920 accessible, it's easier to use while you're at the table. 557 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,240 And then there's the collector book, which is going to be the 558 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,280 hardback. And then we effectively have a a 559 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,720 reward level for each one of the versions of the books. 560 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,720 So we'll have a digital all in which is the PDFSTLS of the four 561 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,520 miniatures, STLS of the buff file, the buff tokens. 562 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,840 And then we'll have the same for the player book and the 563 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,520 collector book, except it's physical versions of those. 564 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:20,360 The there is an all in as well level which will get you PDFs, 565 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,720 STLSA physical copy of each of the books. 566 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,800 So you've got one to sit at home on your shelf, one to take with 567 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,560 you when you go gaming, and obviously the physical 568 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,120 miniatures as well. And then I think I've got a 569 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,080 retailer reward as well for just getting like 5 copies of the the 570 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:42,320 hardback book. Yeah, I mean, first of all, 571 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,600 thank you for doing a wire bound book because they are the 572 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,240 superior version of the book. I know a lot of people don't do 573 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,800 them because I've been told that stores don't like them. 574 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,560 They don't like sit on the shelf. 575 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,320 Well, they don't play well with other books. 576 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,040 You can't read the spine. But for at the table play my I 577 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,480 have like the wire bound version for like Flames of Orion. 578 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,160 It's the most superior version. It's just so easy to have like 579 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,200 flip through and have on the table and have open in front of 580 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,280 you. So that's fantastic. 581 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,240 So I know which pledge I'm going for, but you know, base pledge, 582 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,120 let's just say like the collectors edition, you know, 583 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,560 with the PDF and everything. I mean, it's all extremely 584 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,480 reasonable because even just the what everything is in pounds. 585 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,560 So the collectors book is only 39 lbs which is probably around 586 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:33,240 50 bucks USD which is great but the the player book is only 587 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,000 about 30 lbs which is probably about like 40 ish USD. 588 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,760 Super reasonable because the book it sounds like a relatively 589 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,320 straightforward game. There's some beef to the PDF 590 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,480 though, like you have a lot of stuff in there. 591 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,360 Like how long is the PDF roughly? 592 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,640 It's 148 pages, not including the covers and end papers. 593 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,880 Because there's like your finger fit. 594 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,800 You can split the book into like 3-3 parts. 595 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,240 Yeah, three parts. So you've got the core rules, 596 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,880 then you've got or maybe even 44 sections. 597 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,240 So the core rules, then you've got what I called Ion Bill High, 598 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,840 which is like a little nod of the head to Ion Springfield. 599 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,760 And that's all about the unique citizen creation. 600 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,080 So that's how you can incorporate more more in depth 601 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,800 rules in there as well. There's loads of roll tables for 602 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,960 generating fluff to get inspiration for kit bashing or 603 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,200 writing a back story for your unique citizen, right. 604 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,200 So there's like a roll table for vibe. 605 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,080 There's a roll table for mall odor. 606 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,000 So what do they what do you smell like? 607 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,280 And there's roll tables for weapons and stuff. 608 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:47,680 And none of that has mimic mechanical meaning within the 609 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,040 game. It's just something to use as 610 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,760 inspiration. And there's also sort of law and 611 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:59,680 mechanics applied to each of the four model STL's as well, so as 612 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:05,840 Sal and and Wyatt, and also a bonus one for Raging Annie, 613 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,480 which is a model from bad Skidder games. 614 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,800 Very cool model. And actually just while I'm just 615 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,120 a slightly Segway while I'm talking about the models and 616 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,560 they were sculpted by mangling minis who make some absolutely 617 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:24,199 amazing miniatures. And he's got a patron at the 618 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,080 moment for his name, his game that he's working on, Milligan 619 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,080 Flash. Yeah, Malignant Flash. 620 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,159 Definitely worth checking out. I have that downloaded the play 621 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:35,520 test version or whatever downloaded it looks incredible 622 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,120 so. So, and then so, so you've got 623 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,159 the unique citizen creation and then you've got the campaign 624 00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:44,159 rules, right. So how to play the game in a 625 00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:46,800 campaign setting. And then finally there's 626 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,000 multiplayer rules and campaign rules and multiplayer rules come 627 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,440 with scenarios as well, which actually substantially changed 628 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:56,800 the way that you're playing the game. 629 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,680 So some of them I, I think I really like. 630 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,920 I mean, I would say that I'm biased, but they're they're 631 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,960 quite interesting. Yeah, so you know, what I really 632 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:12,320 love about the the PDF about the whole book is how kind of like 633 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:13,920 easy it is to get the game up and going. 634 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,040 But you put so much depth above and beyond that so that you can 635 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:19,520 play the game as simply as you want. 636 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,920 Or if you want to do a bunch of the unique character, character 637 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,880 creation, a full campaign thing, like the whole 9, you can go as 638 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,240 deep as you want with it. And it's all optional, you know, 639 00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:32,960 outside of like the base thing. And again, the base getting 640 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,560 someone into this game, you could literally just be like, 641 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,400 hey, I have a table over here, take this card. 642 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:37,640 Let's just go play a game real quick. 643 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,560 And then after that when someone gets into it, having the depth 644 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,680 to, to keep going and going with it just great. 645 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,000 Like even getting up to the point where you said multiplayer 646 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,520 campaign full of unique people, you know, making it like a much 647 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,880 bigger skirmish game, all completely optional. 648 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,880 I want to talk about the models a little bit more. 649 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,760 So you have 4 guys. The guy to me that I keep saying 650 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,960 the main guy, Ozzy Buchanan. What was the inspiration for for 651 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,920 for Ozzy Sal Auger, you know, Wyatt and then the outraging 652 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,640 Annie as well was the inspiration especially for for 653 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,880 ounces? Are these all your guys you came 654 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,840 up with that someone that you, you know, got someone else to 655 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,120 model off of pictures or did someone else come up with any of 656 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,080 these? Yeah, so it was like a a free 657 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,320 step process, right. So the the thing that I can I 658 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,040 can do is I can write law, I can write back story. 659 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,000 And so did that for each of these models. 660 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:32,920 I mean, look, my writing's trash. 661 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,440 It's like horrendously trophy. But I think if you were in a 662 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,000 cyberpunk environment, you can kind of get away with it a 663 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,680 little bit, right? It's quite it can be quite a 664 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,600 trophy genre. So I would, I wrote the law and 665 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:52,680 then I reached out to my younger brother Britain illustrations on 666 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,440 on Instagram because he's he's got all of the creative talent 667 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,040 in in the family or like an unfair amount, I would say and 668 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,040 asked him, like I said, look, I've got these got this law. 669 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,160 Like could you, could you do me an illustration for it? 670 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,560 And initially, like I felt quite bad as well because initially I 671 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,560 wanted to use it as the cover, but then it didn't fit in with 672 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,360 the rest of the direction that I ended up going with. 673 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,520 But the illustrations he made were amazing. 674 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:24,520 And these, this is what I provided to some mangling minis 675 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,440 who then used them to create the scopes from. 676 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,360 So it's, it's like the background, the law, the 677 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,600 illustration, and then the sculpting. 678 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:38,560 And I think following that process allows for you get you 679 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,920 get each person involved putting their own spin on it a little 680 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,320 bit and ultimately what you end up with in the end is something 681 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:51,360 quite unique and amazing. Yeah, they're a great spread of 682 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:57,840 of minis too. You got so Oz classic very this 683 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,000 feels very like straight out of the hive. 684 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,680 You know pink Mohawk, you know big open jacket 6 sunglasses. 685 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,720 Sal is this giant robot. It almost gives me a little bit 686 00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:12,800 of like orc kind of like Dreadnought Y kind of vibes to 687 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:13,960 it. Like it's very much just looks 688 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:18,280 like a a piece of construction equipment that has been turned 689 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,840 into a fighter, which is incredible. 690 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:26,200 Auger is it almost looks like a religious figure to me. 691 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:27,880 Is that what the the inspiration is for that? 692 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,360 Because it's got these drapey clothes and these giant almost 693 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,280 look like these huge prayer beads around him. 694 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,640 Yeah. He's a, yeah, he's a, he's a 695 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,440 cult leader. I've been listening to a lot of 696 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,120 Behind the Bastards and they do lots of episodes on cult 697 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,520 leaders. So I figured that's that's 698 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,440 quite. That was quite a nice spin to 699 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,840 throw in there. That's great. 700 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,360 And then Wyatt, you got here, he's got like a melting face, 701 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,000 but he's got like a teddy bear on his belt. 702 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,320 Fantastic. So and then what about Raging 703 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:54,920 Annie? You said this is 1 from Bad 704 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,520 Squido. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 705 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:03,040 So I picked up the miniature. I think I bought it while I was 706 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,200 while I was writing buff this. I liked it because it's it's 707 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:09,880 it's Annie, right? It's raging Annie. 708 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,680 And I bought it and I I I painted it and I was like, this, 709 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,680 this is awesome, right? This is this is like a badass 710 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,000 with a machete, an assault rifle. 711 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,960 So a pink Tutu. I think I painted it pink and I 712 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,560 reached out to, it was like, hey, like, would you mind if I 713 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,200 did? I reach out to her first? 714 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,640 I think I might have written the law and say, hey, look what I 715 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:31,600 did. Isn't that cool? 716 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,280 Do you mind if I put that in the game? 717 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:38,200 And she was like super, very appreciative and supportive as 718 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,360 she always is and said, yeah, that's that's absolutely fine. 719 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:48,280 So I kind of, I think the story that I wrote for it really it it 720 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,280 kicked us. So I was just like, it needs to 721 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,560 go in there. Yeah, no, it's great. 722 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,080 I mean, and it's also great to have a little bit more, what's 723 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,360 the word? I'm looking for representation. 724 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,600 It's nice to be able to, you know, have have people pick the 725 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,640 the the feminine character. They like to have a feminine 726 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:07,520 character. So that's great. 727 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,920 And yeah, the the Tutu with the assault rifle is incredible. 728 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,600 It's a great mini. So so yeah, you said Buffest 729 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:20,680 launches on Tuesday the 19th. Yeah, very, very excited for 730 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,560 that. If you're watching this episode 731 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,320 too, there's probably another episode that's going to be come 732 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,000 out that you should also go watch because that I'm very 733 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,560 excited for that. We're actually going to get to 734 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:37,760 play the game so you can see that I is there anything else 735 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,520 about buff this 2141 that like people really need to know as a 736 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,480 campaign is launching right now? Oh, stretch goals Is, is that a 737 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,280 thing? Yeah, kind of. 738 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,680 So the, the, the key aspects for me for running this campaign and 739 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,840 doing like like a majority of, of everything myself was I 740 00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,760 wanted to make sure that what I delivered was attainable. 741 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,960 And so, so an important part of that is costing things out 742 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,360 correctly, right? So the, the main stretch goal 743 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:14,200 that's involved in the in the campaign is based around the 744 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,880 level of additions made to the collector book, right? 745 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,800 So the more physical versions of the collector book that are 746 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:28,880 sold, the the more things that are included, like foiled 747 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:34,240 titling on the cover page, sort of embossed end papers, ribbons, 748 00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:37,720 that kind of thing. So it's not a monetary goal, but 749 00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:40,440 it's like, hey, the more of these books that we sell, it's 750 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,720 going to reduce the cost of producing that book so I can 751 00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:47,280 include more stuff in it to make it the sort of the high end 752 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:53,160 premium products that I want. So that's, that's the core 753 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,920 stretch goal. There are some others that are 754 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,840 going to be revealed throughout the course of the campaign as 755 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,920 well. One of them's quite cool. 756 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:07,280 Two of them are extremely cool. So when the the story like 757 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,880 there's pixelated images there, they're not super pixelated. 758 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,720 So I think if you know people, you will get an understanding 759 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:17,800 for what's involved. But yeah, very, very excited to 760 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,480 to hopefully announcing those stretch goals as well. 761 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,160 Yeah, that's great. That's my favorite stretch goal 762 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,760 is you know that and like people get paid more are the two best 763 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,760 ones. Because if you're already, if 764 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,640 you're if you have stretch goal to create more content, you 765 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,520 already have a good idea. Just write the fucking content, 766 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,840 stick it in the game, right. But making the book itself like 767 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:43,680 a higher quality product means no more work for you, just 768 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,160 cooler looking when you get it. It's a great stretch call to 769 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,680 have. So those are those are my 770 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:49,880 favorite. So fantastic for that. 771 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,880 Very excited. I assume all of those are going 772 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,120 to be into the collector book. There's not a whole lot more you 773 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,120 can do with this. The spiral bulge, you're not 774 00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:58,560 really going to be putting bookmarks in that. 775 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,240 Yeah. So no, no, exactly the the only 776 00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:04,040 thing you could do with the Wiro bound. 777 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,440 Well, there's a there are a couple of things like you can 778 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,880 put like tabbing in there, which I thought was quite cool, but I 779 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,920 wasn't really the aesthetic I was going for. 780 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,800 And then the other thing is because these are so I'm going 781 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,960 to go for an acetate cover over the front. 782 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,400 And then the the front page is a heavier card stock. 783 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,920 You can get hardback wire a bound books, which I got one of 784 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:33,280 the one of the first Test prints above this done in in that 785 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,120 style. It's really hardcore. 786 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,000 The only issue with it is because you've got the, the 787 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,480 cover is larger than the internal pages. 788 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:47,320 The actual the circumference, the diameter of the of the wire 789 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,160 row is massive. So it's like you were talking 790 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,040 about shelf storage, like for this, it's, it's, it's insane, 791 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,400 but it's quite cool. Like I might get my cell phone 792 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,600 printed like that but. Yeah, see, doing one for 793 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,680 yourself is the best thing to do and be like, hey, could I get a 794 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,240 tester of this style and like dope, I just have another one. 795 00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:06,440 That's great. Like I said, very excited for 796 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,240 this project project. I'm very excited for it to 797 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:09,800 launch. I mean, I think you're going to 798 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,240 do just fine as far as like getting to the goal. 799 00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:16,000 You have a very modest goal, which is fantastic enough to get 800 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,240 the book printed, you know, without without worrying about 801 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:21,520 it. And again, not a ton of stretch 802 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,840 goals to to burden yourself too much, especially for your first 803 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,000 project. So I think you've done a 804 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,560 fantastic job leading up to the campaign. 805 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,200 I'm very excited for it. Again, I hope more people take 806 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,520 your take your lead and start using the pre launch page. 807 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,160 It's like building excitement and blogging. 808 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:37,880 I think that's a fantastic, fantastic idea. 809 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,800 So so once again, if you're listening to this at this point, 810 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,720 just back the fucking campaign. It's right there. 811 00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:44,800 We'll make sure the links are below. 812 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,160 We'll make sure all that stuff is there. 813 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,200 But for for the rest of your stuff where people can find, 814 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,600 because I know there's a a free version of the game out right 815 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,480 now. There's some other stuff where 816 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,120 can people find you on the Internet and and your stuff. 817 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,720 Yeah, loads of work, loads of places. 818 00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:05,200 So HIO if you're interested in the games, HIO protagonist games 819 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,680 or if you search for buff this 2141, I'm on Instagram. 820 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,840 I think I've foolishly got free Instagram accounts because 821 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:14,720 there's one for like my creative page. 822 00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:17,240 There's one for buff this there's one for protagonist 823 00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:22,680 games, YouTube, Blue Sky, Facebook, blah blah blah. 824 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,480 I would say only follow me on one thing though, because like 825 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,520 it's just the same stuff shared everywhere, right? 826 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,400 So you will go insane if you keep up to date with me on all 827 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,760 social platforms. Yeah, so so everywhere and 828 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:41,800 actually on the HIO right now, there's a play test rules for 829 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:46,520 what will be coming next, which would be the working title is 830 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:52,120 buff city, block wars and solo up rules for the game. 831 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:58,360 It's way more narrative, way more special rules driven. 832 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,400 But actually the way I'm trying to create it would allow you to 833 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,160 plug that into a PvP campaign as well. 834 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:10,600 So you get the same kind of bonuses, the same kind of XP 835 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,000 leveling as well. So that's what. 836 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,880 So after this Kickstarter exist and is out there and gone, the 837 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,440 next thing we're going to, we're going to stay in the buff this 838 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,320 universe and and move into the the solo and Co-op. 839 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,080 Yeah, I think there's two things I think I kind of want to do 840 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,920 with buff this and that would be the first one. 841 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,960 The next one I'm kind of working with and I may take a break. 842 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,720 It depends whether it's too too much to do that consecutively, 843 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:42,480 but I've got a couple of other ideas for games that are just 844 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,360 percolating at the moment. So there's this kind of quite a 845 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,040 nice runway. The main thing is time, really 846 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,160 working like a nine to five, right? 847 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,320 Trying to fit everything in around family and work is always 848 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,600 a challenge. Yeah, I mean, the older you get, 849 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,560 I feel like the less time we get, which which is just it is 850 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,120 just a struggle. If I can hobby all day, I would 851 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,840 at least get something done. Maybe not everything I want to 852 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,680 get done, but but great. And that's, you know, the other 853 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,680 cool thing about backing buff this 2141 right now is, you 854 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:15,200 know, there's more coming down the pipe. 855 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,040 So definitely, definitely great to go check that out. 856 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,200 So Matt, thank you so much for coming on the show. 857 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,960 I really appreciate talking with you. 858 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,560 I'm very excited for this project. 859 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,320 I can imagine this will not be the last time we see you here on 860 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,360 the show, and I'm very excited for that as well. 861 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,080 So once again, thank you so much for being here. 862 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,080 I really appreciate it. Ryan, honestly, thank you for 863 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,280 having me on. It's a brilliant opportunity. 864 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,320 Yeah, no problem. That's going to be us for today. 865 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,920 For now. And back to the Kickstarter. 866 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,560 We'll see you all next time. Bye. 867 00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:45,880 Ciao. Bye.