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Hello, and welcome to the 
weekly. 

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Scroll podcast brought to you by
the adventure. 

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Archive, my name is Ryan. 
We got a couple of special 

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guests here from crumbling. 
Keep first, we have James crane.

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Hey, that's me. 
I'm from crumbling. 

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Keep and we have Brad Kish ball.
Fishbach. 

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Yeah. 
Alright. 

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Hey guys doing today, how are 
you pretty good? 

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Yeah, yeah, I was asked this 
question. 

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Like we have been talking for 
like 15 minutes but they don't 

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know that. 
They don't sweep it out the 

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Stalls and rock bottom. 
Yeah, so yeah. 

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So for those that don't see the 
giant thing. 

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Next to me that says marching 
order bomb, that's kind of your 

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guys thing here. 
This is the solo and or 

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cooperative dungeon delving game
marching order. 

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So for those that haven't read 
marching order, what I guess, 

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what would you say like this is 
marching order like what is it 

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to you guys? 
Well James has the pitch down, 

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so It's funny that you say that 
because like, every time that I 

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have to write out the pitch or 
like the elevator pitch, I'm 

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like, could this be better? 
Like, what really is it? 

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How do I distill this 
experience? 

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And I think what I've settled on
and I still think it does. 

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It really just us. 
It's like, if darkest Dungeons 

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and Choose Your Own Adventure 
style books, had a baby and race

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it on cheap booze and 
Desperation. 

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I think that at least gives a 
good idea of the flavor. 

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I think that's a fantastic 
pitch. 

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I read somewhere, that's written
somewhere. 

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And I can't remember where 
whether it's on the Indiegogo 

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page or something where it 
specifically talk about like 

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this cya and and the darkest 
dungeon think is a dark. 

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As soon as I read that I was 
like oh shit, this is really 

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like darkest dungeon that's like
your guys and they're guys you 

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know just kind of going like 
this. 

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Yeah it's it's you put them in a
marching Order. 

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And then it is just kind of 
goes. 

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What was the like impetus for 
this? 

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Like who had the original seed 
for this concept? 

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That's correct. 
Yeah. 

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So he's the story about that 
design. 

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It was wasn't last year. 
We published last year. 

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No two years ago is it 2020 
really? 

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Yeah. 
Okay, great. 

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All right. 
Yeah. 

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Our Kickstarter launched in 
February of 2020 and then we had

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the successful thing go on and 
then And then covid hit. 

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Yeah, cool success of our game 
brought upon the apocalypse. 

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I mean, if you've read the game,
you'll know marketing for solo 

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Rock. 
Bottom is Miguel place. 

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So back in 2020, it was a bit 
before like Zine quest of that 

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year and I'd never done a Zine 
Quest Kickstarter before and I 

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wanted to and Truth be told I 
have actually never played 

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darkest dungeons, but I was 
playing a mobile app on my phone

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that reading the comments, 
people said that it seemed like 

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a ripoff of darkest dungeons. 
It's impossible but plank, 

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right? 
You know? 

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And I'm sure like, I just gotta 
say, oh yeah, how some of the 

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same elements. 
But I got actually still don't 

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know that to this day but I just
kept thinking like oh this would

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translate real well to like a 
tabletop experience and like I 

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think the two things that struck
me that like started the whole 

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thing and obviously there's like
a lot more to it now but like 

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the two ideas I started to work 
with were it's like combat in a 

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lot of RPGs especially those 
that are using a grid and 

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managers of What Not 
expositional, Right? 

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Like you can flank people you 
move around, you have the 

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movement speed yada yada and had
the thought of well what if it 

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was in corridors that were too 
tight and so you're always He's 

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just in the line and the 
Tactical part of the combat came

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from, where you are in line and 
how far away other creatures 

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were in front of you and 
whatnot. 

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So that in the idea of having 
powers that you could reuse, but

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having cool down dies for them. 
So that if you use your like, 

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for instance, the doctor has a 
healing power with a cool-down 

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of. 
I think it's three or four being

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able to use that only that Every
like fourth round or something 

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like that and ways of tracking 
that on the table top as opposed

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to an app or a computer game, 
where it does it for you. 

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So that's kind of where it's 
started. 

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Was those like little mechanics 
and kind of grew out from there.

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I think it started with a to am 
message. 

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Hey I got I got this card game 
idea. 

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At the time we were putting out 
5e third-party material. 

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So so he had this little 
brainstorm and he worked on it 

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for a while and you know, while 
we've been building our skills, 

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Well, I mean for anyone that's 
played 5e to, I can't remember 

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the number of times that a fight
has happened in a doorway and it

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feels kind of like you're in a 
line. 

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Anyway, because you're just 
like, well, I have to I'm 

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allowed to move, like, through 
my Ally, but can't finish in 

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their space. 
So like you go and then all 

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scuba to go. 
And you're going to go in the 

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bad guy. 
Will come in and go, you kind of

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get the, the little bit of that 
from that. 

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Anyway. 
But um, so it blossomed. 

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Now, did you guys You decide 
what you want to come out prior 

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to covid? 
Or was it like right totally 

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wrong? 
I believe that was 20 21 

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actually not on the passenger. 
Okay, great, great. 

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So, it was last year as like my 
memory, isn't that bad? 

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Yeah, because I was like, right,
when it was like, yeah, um, I 

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mean solo games did blow up 
during covid, you know. 

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A lot of people like the whole 
like Gretchen and alone thing 

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kind of blew up a lot of 
journaling games did One of the 

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things I really like about 
marching order, there aren't a 

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ton of games that feel like 
they're still adventure games 

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that are so low. 
Like, one of the other ones that

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we've talked about a lot is like
12 years from X Moon, where you 

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actually still playing with like
a party of people, and doing an 

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adventure, you know, you're not 
like journaling through prompts 

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and things like that and 
journaling games are cool. 

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That's fine. 
But like I told, I just want to 

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go in a dungeon and kill shit 
and if I don't have friends 

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around, it'd be nice to just do 
it. 

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So that's what I think. 
Yeah really drew me to marching 

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order. 
Was that idea like it's still an

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adventure game. 
You just do it by yourself and 

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it is I mean I know you've never
played darkest dungeon but like 

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it definitely channels it a lot.
So like definitely hit that nail

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on the head for sure. 
Awesome that. 

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Yeah like I mean kind of a happy
accident I'm definitely not 

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complaining about it and I think
a lot of it probably the art 

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style, really goes a long way 
with that appeal to. 

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Oh absolutely. 
We stopping here. 

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Walk, I saw the art on two 
things that I really love. 

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Actually took me forever to 
notice, but one of the things I 

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really loved was the the two 
primary books, The Player's 

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handbook, and the delve. 
It's the same image. 

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Basically, this from like, two 
different perspectives when I 

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like eventually, like, for 
whatever reason to have it both,

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like, laying down next to each 
other. 

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And I looked at it. 
I was like, oh shit. 

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Like this is I, there you go. 
Yeah, but he that's that's my my

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part of crumbling. 
Keep. 

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Yeah, that was Brian's idea and 
then we saw that. 

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I did a great job, pulling it 
off and we were just talking Um 

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yesterday about how we both get 
like little Sparks of enjoyment 

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when anyone realizes that, so 
like this was right. 

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Yeah, it's great. 
I think the thank you for that, 

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if he who is it, am 
catastrophic. 

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I maybe it's time at but there's
a couple of tapes that were put 

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out that like old-school dungeon
synth and the one. 

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It there's two versions of the 
one of them and it's kind of the

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same kind of concept where 
there's like, a party on one 

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side and back. 
As on the other and you could 

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get the cover that had the party
on one side of the bad guys on 

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the other. 
And then, when I saw that, I was

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like, oh shit, like this. 
Exactly like that. 

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The other thing is this art 
style to? 

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Also, again took me a minute to 
realize this is the same artist 

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that does neon Lords, right? 
Yep. 

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Yeah, and as soon as you see, I 
can't unsee it. 

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They have a very distinct style 
that I think fits so perfectly 

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with marching order to is a 
great choice of artists for this

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game. 
Yeah, I saw his stuff on Twitter

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originally like months before 
marching order was a gleam in my

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eye, you know. 
And The Moment I Saw stuff like 

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I want to contact this guy 
someday to do commissions. 

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I just don't know what game it's
for you. 

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You didn't mention a link that 
day to me. 

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Yeah yeah I just this guy out 
like we need to keep this guy in

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mind because this I'm loving 
this style and it just didn't 

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really fit anything we were 
doing at the moment you know? 

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But then, when marching or it 
came about us like this, this is

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the game. 
Like, I want his stink all over 

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it, we got. 
And I mean, it's kind of it's 

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interesting when you see games 
that have a really close tie to 

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like the artist because I would 
say now that they the game and 

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the artists seem kind of 
intrinsically linked at this 

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point, like even with the new 
campaign I assume that stone was

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stopped again. 
How is it working? 

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Artists and just being like, Oh,
hey, I got another project, are 

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they? 
You know, is it just like sure? 

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Alright, let's do it again or I 
mean, we didn't give them a 

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chef's kiss for nothing. 
He's amazing to work with. 

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He really is, it's, he's been 
great. 

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We give them vague descriptions.
Like, like kind of a feel and 

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he'll, he'll be like oh well I'm
kind of busy right now but I'll 

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have it done by like tomorrow 
morning and we're like, okay, 

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that's great. 
Eight years 24, more characters.

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So he's his art is kind of 
established with our game now, 

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and we really don't work with 
any other artists for marching 

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order. 
Like I generally try to find 

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royalty free images and keep all
the artwork just to his style 

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and everything else is kind of 
an amalgamation or Or graphic. 

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Just stuff. 
Put together by myself. 

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I hadn't really noticed that 
until just now. 

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But yeah, he's our one and only 
artist. 

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Mhm. 
And that's why do you do that 

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specifically? 
Or I mean you just said like you

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didn't notice until now is it 
just because like you feel like 

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what he does, just portrays what
you want to do so well or 

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because he's so easy to work 
with or like what as far as 

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illustrations go. 
Like, yeah, I'm I use, you know,

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some some illustrations from 
like Jeremy heart or some other 

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really good artists out there. 
but they're more of like objects

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or you know, a situation I try 
to keep the The illustrations 

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that we buy strictly to Mustafa 
and try to keep everything else.

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Minimalized to, like I said, 
royalty free stuff, just real 

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images, like there's some mud in
some of the picture in some of 

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the choices that some of the 
entries in the story. 

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So they'll be mud on the ground 
in the background like stuff 

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like that. 
I try to keep all the 

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illustrations just to boost off 
as like. 

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Gritty perfectly marching order 
style lace and it's just Pages. 

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Yeah, right there. 
Yeah, I knew exactly what page 

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you're talking about. 
Me said that. 

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And for those that aren't in in 
podcast land, listening to this,

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like, my background is actually 
the cover of the, this is for 

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the players handbook in the 
cover, for the Box said, Rose? 

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Yeah. 
But if you are in Pakistan, and 

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you can see this Go watch on 
YouTube or go by the book 

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because it's wonderful. 
So you guys said, previously 

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prior you were crumbling keep 
prior to march in water and you 

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are doing 5e stuff with how did 
crumbling keep become about. 

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How did you guys kind of meet 
and start that whole process? 

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Oh man, how did we meet it was 
in a Boy Scout camp in ninety 

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two or three? 
We were both teenagers, Middle 

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School. 
Yeah. 

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And we, you know, had lives and 
then I think it was maybe five 

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00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:08,600
or six years ago. 
Seven years ago, we started 

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playing a role 20 came out. 
So we started playing virtually 

225
00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:14,900
because he was living on the 
west coast. 

226
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I'm on the east coast and it was
it was around the time. 

227
00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:22,200
I think 5e came out too because 
I think what started it is I was

228
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,500
like well if IV is like like 
soon after it dropped and I had 

229
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,500
I've been playing D&D and a long
time was like I'm really 

230
00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:30,900
enjoying this so I'm enjoying it
so much makes me want to play to

231
00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:34,200
eat so we started a second dish 
in campaign on roll20. 

232
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And then we're like we're a bit 
into that campaign and then 

233
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we're like, how about we do a 
podcast? 

234
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,300
Well, there's nothing stopping 
us from doing that. 

235
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:54,700
We don't have any good mics or 
editing, software knowledgeable.

236
00:14:54,700 --> 00:15:00,000
We're doing, right? 
And it just kind of kind of grew

237
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,500
we James toiled over that 
podcast forever. 

238
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:10,500
We had no interest whatsoever 
from the public, so we kind of 

239
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:13,600
had to Pivot and we've pivoted 
several times. 

240
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,800
Than our toes into the gaming 
Waters. 

241
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:25,000
And it turns out that our own 
creation is are greatest 

242
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,500
benefit. 
And marching orders, definitely 

243
00:15:30,500 --> 00:15:32,700
the most popular crumbling, keep
thing for sure. 

244
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,800
And we had, we had some interest
in some of the 5B stuff. 

245
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,400
It was mostly story based stuff.
Though. 

246
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:47,300
There is like we put out a book 
on items that are made from 

247
00:15:47,300 --> 00:15:56,100
Monsters was like a bass list. 
Stinger, you know stuff that you

248
00:15:56,100 --> 00:16:01,300
can Harvest from the creatures 
that you kill and then used to 

249
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:07,300
create other magic items or what
have you did. 

250
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:10,400
A heck scroll? 
Yeah, it's gonna get dark woods.

251
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,500
Okay. 
I thought it's gonna like we're 

252
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:17,000
putting out a conversion soon 
for it so that it can be used 

253
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,500
for like, ose or more Borg or 
yeah, it was seeing more Borg 

254
00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:24,400
and I think that's going to Be 
really nice for it. 

255
00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:32,700
Yeah, you know, I try every week
to not bash 5e and I fail almost

256
00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:36,900
everybody, you know? 
And it's, you know, it's what I 

257
00:16:36,908 --> 00:16:39,400
started with. 
I sent this before I when I was 

258
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,900
a kid, I didn't I never played 
indeed had no idea what it was 

259
00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:44,800
even though I read every 
Dungeons & Dragons book possible

260
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,000
like my dad come on with like 
just boxes at or books. 

261
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,200
I read every Dragon Lane 
Spokane. 

262
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:49,700
Everything. 
No idea that it was a game 

263
00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:50,900
involved. 
Probably should have read the 

264
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,300
ads in the back. 
Back not like my parents would 

265
00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:56,700
let me play but um so I started 
with the five you box set and 

266
00:16:56,700 --> 00:17:02,200
then just fell hard into it and 
then eventually like started 

267
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,000
reading other stuff and realize 
like wow this there are better 

268
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,400
games out there to play. 
Um I'm sure there's more than 

269
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,500
this right you know combat 
doesn't have to take four hours.

270
00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:20,099
Um but like you just had 5 ER o 
SE and Rick Berg like obviously 

271
00:17:20,099 --> 00:17:21,700
Merc board blue. 
The fuck up. 

272
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:28,099
But a lot of people are putting 
out more and more and more ose 

273
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:31,000
stuff and I'm seeing a lot of 
exactly what you're talking 

274
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,700
about. 
A lot of 5e stuff that people 

275
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:36,600
had previously done. 
They're converting to osc, or 

276
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,100
putting things out at the same 
time. 

277
00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:41,000
The number of kickstarter's that
are like, this is 45 e + OS. 

278
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:46,400
See I'm like, thank thank you 
for putting it into a different 

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00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,300
system. 
Why specifically osc? 

280
00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:51,700
I know you said you had played a
second edition. 

281
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,200
Pain for a while. 
But is a conversion to 

282
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:58,400
specifically, to like gear 
towards people that prefer that,

283
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,400
or did you want to start, you 
know, making more content in 

284
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,500
like always see and Mark Morgan 
and non 5e things. 

285
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:09,700
So I think I think part of the 
reason like, but when we when we

286
00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:13,000
were doing like 5e stuff, the 
most, like when we were really 

287
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,100
devoted to it, we had a patreon 
set up and we had some 

288
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:18,600
subscribers like we did nothing 
enough to make it like 

289
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,900
financially viable or anything 
but like Basically paid for the 

290
00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:24,300
website. 
Yeah. 

291
00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:29,600
Basically. 
And like I think one of the 

292
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,300
things like looking back now, 
you know, like I didn't realize 

293
00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:33,400
this at the time but looking 
back. 

294
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,900
Now I think a lot of our 
subscribers were not people that

295
00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:40,900
started on 5e that they have 
started on earlier systems and 

296
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:42,500
we're currently playing 
fighting. 

297
00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:46,400
And I mentioned that because 
like Despite the fact that 

298
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,500
mechanically the stuff I was 
making more stuff. 

299
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:55,000
I was writing we were making was
like 5e like it never felt like 

300
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,800
5e and I think that's why it 
never really Garnet like a lot 

301
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,500
of attention because and I 
especially like when I you know,

302
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:05,900
going back to deep dark wood, 
like it's a hex crawl like that 

303
00:19:05,900 --> 00:19:10,200
doesn't generally exist in five 
years is and it just doesn't 

304
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:16,700
feel by V ish like mmm. 
I think and you know like 

305
00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:19,800
honestly like folks play 
whatever you want, like I'm 

306
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,100
happy for you actually like I've
side from this. 

307
00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:26,200
I'm also a professional dungeon 
master so I run a lot of 5 e you

308
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:27,700
know and people enjoy it and 
that's cool. 

309
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:31,200
But that said like when it comes
to like games, I want to play 

310
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,600
for fun like it fuels 
thematically a little 

311
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:41,500
superhero-ish and I kind of like
that more old-school fantasy. 

312
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:45,700
Feel two things where like if 
you run into like, A bear or a 

313
00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:50,400
thunderstorm, it might be a 
threat as opposed to 5 e where 

314
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,800
you like the states or just 
raised a lot higher you know 

315
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,200
like there's a lot more concrete
to it but listen it's a dragon 

316
00:19:56,700 --> 00:20:00,000
does that mean you said you said
stakes and 5e and I don't think 

317
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,800
there's really a you know? 
Yeah. 

318
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,600
What's up, for instance? 
What we are playing now. 

319
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:16,300
For fun is, we're streaming the 
alien RPG, and we're doing the 

320
00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:21,100
Cinematic version, which is, 
it's basically just like a 

321
00:20:21,108 --> 00:20:25,400
movie, everybody's going to die 
or at least 99% of them. 

322
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:27,600
It's just a matter of when and 
how. 

323
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:38,200
So, then this, like, no steaks 
that I, you know, I I mean five 

324
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:44,100
years a, it's It's like it's a 
hero game you know like it is 

325
00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:49,400
designed to make you feel good 
and be the good guy and 

326
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,000
eventually become a God and 
battle other gods. 

327
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,300
Like that is the not like many 
people actually go from 1 to 20,

328
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,800
but once you get the 20th level,
you basically just like fighting

329
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:04,800
God's thousand hit points and I 
think, I think a lot of people 

330
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,300
eventually are like, I want 
more. 

331
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:11,700
There was an article I think Stu
Horvath from the vending RPG 

332
00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:15,000
podcast for at once that I read 
and it basically said that 

333
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,400
earlier editions of D&D at low 
levels is a horror game. 

334
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,300
Like if you have very few hit 
points and very few abilities 

335
00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:27,500
and you go down into a deep dark
area, I run into some giant 

336
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:29,900
thing. 
This is horror, this is what 

337
00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:35,200
this is and I really loved that 
feeling where like I make one 

338
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,800
wrong move, I'm dead. 
If I choose to stay instead of 

339
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,200
fight, for one more or fight, 
instead of run for one more 

340
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,500
turn, I'm dead. 
And I feel like you get that a 

341
00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:45,500
lot more in ose. 
I mean, it is a b x. 

342
00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:48,300
It is, it is the Retro clone at 
this point. 

343
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,500
Yeah. 
That's what Drew when you said 

344
00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:53,000
the first thing you said, when 
you're like, what are you did? 

345
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,500
A scroll. 
The first thing that popped in 

346
00:21:54,508 --> 00:21:55,200
my head. 
Exactly. 

347
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:56,800
You said, well that's crawl. 
Isn't feel like 5e. 

348
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,200
That's not really how five you 
works. 

349
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:05,100
So being able to get conversions
20s, he would be absolutely 

350
00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:06,800
fantastic. 
Especially like you said I mean 

351
00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:09,300
even hearing you talk it, a lot 
of things you're talking about 

352
00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:12,800
sound like older editions to do.
ND for something like 58. 

353
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:19,500
So is that of that? 
I was out of that guided my 

354
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:23,300
thoughts on Martian water, you 
know, you were just mentioning 

355
00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:27,600
like you, like the feel of like 
going to that dungeon like 

356
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:31,000
knowing that you might have in 
your thoughts might kill you, 

357
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,500
depending on what you choose to 
do and that if you'd stay for 

358
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:36,900
the X around a combat like 
there's a risk and reward thing 

359
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:44,400
there and I think Joshua 
makrooh. 

360
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,300
Rise up Como's blog. 
I think was where I like 

361
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:51,300
originally Saul, something them 
put these words into or put the 

362
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:56,200
ideas into words like just 
introducing interesting choices 

363
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:01,300
meaningful choices. 
And so, like I don't want didn't

364
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:03,800
want marching order be Justin, 
and the slew of enemies that you

365
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,700
fight through and get stuff and 
like, like, I wanted to give a 

366
00:23:06,708 --> 00:23:11,900
voice to the player, right? 
Like, It's, that's why they're 

367
00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:14,300
like the resource management. 
Part of, it is so important, 

368
00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:17,800
like, okay, how many torches do 
I have left? 

369
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,200
I could push farther and it 
might be fine, but I need that 

370
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,300
light. 
Do we have any bandages, how, 

371
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:24,900
many luck points do we have 
left? 

372
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,700
You know, like I want people 
thinking I'm strategically about

373
00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:32,100
what they're doing and there's 
was, there's a reason I put 

374
00:23:32,100 --> 00:23:35,800
don't forget torches on the tab 
of the box set. 

375
00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:41,100
Yeah, that literally when you 
open it up, it's like Those are 

376
00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:43,100
the secret one. 
It's the tuck one. 

377
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:44,800
Right, right? 
Right. 

378
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,500
Yeah. 
So as soon as they open it up, 

379
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:52,500
they should get this tip first 
tip because it gets really 

380
00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:54,000
dangerous when you run out of 
torches. 

381
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,200
Yes. 
Thursday, bring Leia the well, I

382
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,900
mean, even in the writing you 
say over and over again, like 

383
00:24:00,900 --> 00:24:04,400
the first Dell has like, bring 
any Venom, don't forget. 

384
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,500
Torches like it, like three or 
four times. 

385
00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:09,400
It's like, if you don't get it 
by the end of reading the 

386
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,800
player's handbook, you should 
get an event of an torches for 

387
00:24:11,808 --> 00:24:13,500
the first stealth. 
Like you weren't paying 

388
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:17,500
attention to look like, because 
like people going into it the 

389
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:20,200
first time, like they're not 
going to understand the 

390
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,500
importance of certain items. 
And I don't want to play a 

391
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:24,800
gotcha style of game, you know 
what? 

392
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,800
So I figured out that first out 
so like oh that's why I need 

393
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,100
these things and they can think 
about their inventory management

394
00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:38,300
more appropriately going in the 
future ones and I was just going

395
00:24:38,300 --> 00:24:42,600
to say that I set up the 
character sheets to kind of 

396
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:48,700
mimic like like a like an 
old-school Nintendo you know, 

397
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:54,200
you bring up the Zelda's you 
know inventory and it's got so 

398
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,600
many slots you know. 
You got this in here and blah 

399
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,300
blah blah. 
It's is really got that. 

400
00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:04,800
Feel when you're like when 
you're down there playing and in

401
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:10,500
a dungeon, your You like shit? 
I got to mark off my torch. 

402
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,800
You know weird. 
Only down to it too. 

403
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,100
We're working on the sewers 
right now and that's extremely 

404
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:25,300
like it's almost there's a cost 
to what would that be like cost 

405
00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:28,400
efficiency? 
Like we paid for so many torches

406
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,000
to go down in the sewers and we 
need to like make that enough 

407
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:35,800
gold to pay for more if we want 
to come back, you know. 

408
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,700
Yeah I totally like did. 
We make enough money to pay for 

409
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:39,600
the bandages. 
We use. 

410
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,800
Last time, we went down there. 
No. 

411
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,300
I and that's one of things. 
I really, really love about 

412
00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:48,700
specifically this game, but 
games like this is exactly what 

413
00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:51,400
you said about choice. 
You know, one of my especially 

414
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,500
when I started gearing harder 
away from fifth editions, I have

415
00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:56,500
a friend, / Mentor, sirsa 
Victory. 

416
00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:00,700
Who did a lot of like, 40 stuff 
and but he literally writes 

417
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:03,100
classes on Choice design and 
tabletop games. 

418
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,900
So, and I've read these etana 
gone over it. 

419
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:08,000
And when you see that, In a 
game. 

420
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,600
You like, yes, like this isn't 
like there are stakes and 

421
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,800
consequences to everything that 
you do like, is it a Now versus 

422
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,900
later choice? 
Or is it, you know, risk versus 

423
00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:17,800
reward. 
A resource management is huge 

424
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,700
part of it. 
And I really loved going through

425
00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:22,500
the books. 
Being exactly like you said 

426
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:24,200
you're just like man. 
Every time I go in a room, I 

427
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,600
could have to turn over my torch
die and see how far it's like 

428
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,300
going down and doing all those 
things and even as far as the 

429
00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:33,900
cooldowns conditions and things 
like that the exact same thing, 

430
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:39,300
it feels Good luck. 
It feels like a really fun level

431
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:41,000
of crunch like it doesn't seem 
like a lot. 

432
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:46,300
It's not you know. 
Overwhelming by any stretch of 

433
00:26:46,308 --> 00:26:48,600
imagination. 
It's a fun amount. 

434
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,600
You know where you're just like 
man I got I get to track all of 

435
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,900
this and really have to stay 
engaged all the time when I'm 

436
00:26:55,908 --> 00:26:58,200
playing the game. 
You know there's the feels like 

437
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,200
guarded interact with for sure. 
Like I think you're right to 

438
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,400
that's not I mean you know like 
I might be wrong because I wrote

439
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,600
the damn thing but I feel like 
it's not an overwhelming about a

440
00:27:08,608 --> 00:27:10,600
crunch but yeah you have to 
interact with the rules. 

441
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,900
That's in the rules are there. 
Like, if you're not interacting 

442
00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:14,800
with rules, why are those rules 
in? 

443
00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:19,700
The game you know, right? 
When they told us when the when 

444
00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:22,300
the first page of your book 
says, here's all the rules. 

445
00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:23,900
But just throw out the ones. 
You don't want. 

446
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,000
Then, why did you write 150 page
book? 

447
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,000
I don't understand. 
Hey, Daddy. 22 play cops and 

448
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,100
robbers. 
Motherfucker. 

449
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,400
Yeah, I think that there's a 
nice, like, Trifecta balance, 

450
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:44,800
like, you got the, the choice 
of, you know, the options. 

451
00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:52,500
Things to do, you have the 
finite like resource management 

452
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:57,500
and then you also have bullshit.
Dice was just completely up and 

453
00:27:57,500 --> 00:28:03,400
shit, you know, the chaos better
have lost characters, just 

454
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,700
because monsters have had really
good bullshit roles. 

455
00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:10,000
Like several roles in a row, you
know? 

456
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:16,300
Oh, there goes my doctor. 
You know, it's there's a nice 

457
00:28:16,300 --> 00:28:21,700
balance There Yet. 
The, the way the book is 

458
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:26,300
written, is fantastic. 
I love how I don't even say 

459
00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:29,200
tongue-in-cheek, because it's 
more than that. 

460
00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:36,800
What we were writing this were 
you like, what was there a point

461
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,100
where you're like, I either need
to tone this down, or ramp it 

462
00:28:40,100 --> 00:28:43,600
up, like, which way do I go? 
Is there a point where that 

463
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,100
happen? 
Or was it always going to be 

464
00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:50,200
this kind of like, you know, 
nudge-nudge fuck you like 

465
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,700
throughout the thing. 
Like I think it started a little

466
00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:58,800
bit like, you know, the voice of
the book narrator. 

467
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,700
So the speak had that kind of 
like nudge-nudge. 

468
00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:06,300
Like you thing going on and I 
think like It's evolved. 

469
00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:10,700
Yeah, yeah, I think it just like
really the more I wrote, the 

470
00:29:10,700 --> 00:29:15,300
more I bought into it, you know,
like, I think really like, I'm 

471
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:19,000
thinking back to like, just the 
introduction in the book and the

472
00:29:19,008 --> 00:29:20,700
introduction of the book is very
much. 

473
00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:23,900
Like this is your life, like 
telling you what the game is 

474
00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:26,400
about, but in that kind of 
narrative voice of someone who's

475
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,500
like, done it all before taking 
someone new under their wing, 

476
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:33,800
but also is like really bitter 
and about it. 

477
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,300
You know, right? 
You're Expendable like you 

478
00:29:37,300 --> 00:29:41,000
right? 
We all are and I think it could 

479
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:46,500
have very easily gone. 
Like I had a had a friend who 

480
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:50,500
used to be like there's grimdark
and then their shit dark like 

481
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:51,900
shit. 
Dark is like there's just no 

482
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:54,600
coming back from and I feel like
it could have very easily gone 

483
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,900
that far. 
But instead it started to kind 

484
00:29:57,900 --> 00:30:03,800
of poke fun at itself along the 
way to oh yeah. 

485
00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:08,600
And I think that's like it's the
writing style feels evolved a 

486
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,000
bit because when I look at what 
I'm writing for it now, which 

487
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,400
is, like, no, we're even on the 
release schedule yet. 

488
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:18,200
There are times where I'm 
reading it that I'm like, 

489
00:30:19,100 --> 00:30:21,800
honestly, I hate to say if I do 
this often, like, I'll reread 

490
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,900
what I wrote and start laughing 
at myself again. 

491
00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:26,300
But, then, there's other times 
where, like, I'll read a 

492
00:30:26,300 --> 00:30:27,900
passage. 
I'm like, damn, dude. 

493
00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:29,400
You're kind of creeping yourself
out here. 

494
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:35,100
That was something with that 
Pros, buddy. so, it's been 

495
00:30:35,100 --> 00:30:40,000
interesting to see, like, It's 
weird because you design a game 

496
00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:43,400
and you think that means you 
should know what it's doing, you

497
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,700
know. 
But sometimes you're kind of 

498
00:30:44,708 --> 00:30:46,900
discovering it as you go along 
as well. 

499
00:30:46,900 --> 00:30:51,600
And so seeing like we're in 
future, Dells coming up where 

500
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,500
the mechanics are going and also
where the style is going, right?

501
00:30:56,300 --> 00:30:59,500
It seems to have like I think 
it's gotten better honestly, 

502
00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:00,900
which I really enjoy the 
original. 

503
00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:03,200
I don't have much bad say about 
it but it's just it's 

504
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,800
interesting to see how that shit
grows. 

505
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,500
And you know, same thing for 
like the graphical work. 

506
00:31:08,500 --> 00:31:12,600
Like I think the graphical work 
in the original two books is 

507
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,900
awesome. 
And then I look at Master of the

508
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:18,300
Onyx Tower which was the first 
big expansion and Brandi just 

509
00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:22,600
like you can see like the kind 
of level up that happened 

510
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,900
between the two and I can't wait
to see the next trick you work 

511
00:31:25,900 --> 00:31:28,700
on with that of the sewers. 
I can't the sewers. 

512
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,400
Yeah. 
There wasn't a yeah, but other 

513
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,900
stuff to do. 
I mean, as far as you literally,

514
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:37,400
you said earlier, there's 
bullshit Dyson. 

515
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,900
It there's literally a mechanic 
in the game called like the 

516
00:31:40,900 --> 00:31:44,000
bullshit Dice. 
And as you said, you could die 

517
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,800
from bullshit Dice. 
And it just cracked me up, like,

518
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,300
so hard when I was first reading
it. 

519
00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:55,400
It's just like the It's Gonzo in
like a different way than Mark 

520
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:56,500
forgives. 
You know what I mean? 

521
00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:59,000
Like Mark was like, this is kind
of just like dying World. 

522
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,100
Ah, fuck it. 
Like, let's get weird kind of 

523
00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:02,500
thing. 
This is more of like a. 

524
00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:04,500
I think you described it 
perfectly where it's like I mean

525
00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:06,800
you wrote it so of course was 
having a perfectly but this kind

526
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,200
of like you know grumpy Mentor 
that's like I fucking told you 

527
00:32:11,208 --> 00:32:14,200
to take the boys in like you 
didn't take that Venom. 

528
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:29,700
I mean that was God. like as if 
it is a narrator not just a 

529
00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:33,200
rules text, it feels like you 
get more engaged in it as if 

530
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,400
someone's like kind of work 
directing you versus just, like 

531
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:42,200
I said, like rules text For 
instance, the thief, his first 

532
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,300
two flaws are one. 
You weren't using this was you, 

533
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,300
you steal 1 D6 coins from a 
random, a lie or two. 

534
00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:56,100
I didn't steal nothing from me. 
I promise a random adjacent Ally

535
00:32:56,100 --> 00:33:01,800
makes a basic attack against you
so you know all different types 

536
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,900
of stuff can happen. 
And yeah I like it the wording 

537
00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:11,100
of all the Flaws and qualities 
for the bullshit is. 

538
00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:16,500
It's all, there's a lot of 
referencing going on. 

539
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,100
I think James reference every 
Android movie possible for the 

540
00:33:22,108 --> 00:33:29,500
construct character to they're 
in there for sure. 

541
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,500
I've just always loved James is 
writing. 

542
00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:37,600
Wow, just why? 
Oh yeah, it's great. 

543
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,300
But we literally deliberated 
over the name of bullshit dice 

544
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,300
for a couple weeks and we're 
like there's just nothing better

545
00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:49,300
than bullshit. 
Yeah that was that was the 

546
00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:53,000
stand-in name for the mechanic 
until we figure out what they 

547
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,300
call it. 
But it just felt right it does 

548
00:33:57,300 --> 00:33:59,800
feel right like when I got to 
her I'm like yeah that totally 

549
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,100
makes sense like that's that's 
reasonable right there. 

550
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,000
Like especially as like I said 
is if as you've read all the 

551
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,699
rest of it it's a guy do I can't
think of anything that would be 

552
00:34:09,699 --> 00:34:11,100
better than it is to be like 
that? 

553
00:34:11,100 --> 00:34:13,500
Like it like it's still it feeds
back into that. 

554
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:16,500
Like I said that like a little 
bit of just like gone zone is to

555
00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:18,600
the game. 
There's one line I was trying to

556
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:23,100
find it in here that it was in 
the mechanics that when I read 

557
00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:25,000
this on like this is You're such
a perfect way. 

558
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,600
To even say this, it's when 
you're talking about, it's in 

559
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,500
combat and basically it's like 
you can't do this or this or 

560
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:35,100
this out of combat. 
Doesn't make sense. 

561
00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:37,300
Know who cares? 
Like you know. 

562
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,199
Oh yeah. 
Like you can't, you can only use

563
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:45,500
actions while in combat. 
So yeah. 

564
00:34:45,500 --> 00:34:49,199
Looking please kahlan items. 
And yeah, which and your 

565
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:51,500
cooldown dice, don't go down 
between combat. 

566
00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:54,300
So like if you have a power that
can only use every third, Rounds

567
00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:56,100
that just magically goes on hold
before. 

568
00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:58,200
The next thing. 
And that because I think there 

569
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,200
is a certain time where you have
to admit, like, I would rather 

570
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,000
and then there's like, it's this
is more Continuum than a like 

571
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,000
yes-or-no thing, but I would 
rather play a good game than a 

572
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,600
like good simulation, you know. 
Yeah. 

573
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,700
It's a fucking really good. 
Yeah, I would rather have fun 

574
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:19,600
then be like, well, this doesn't
exactly make sense, but 

575
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,500
sometimes it helps to admit. 
That's what you're doing, right?

576
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:24,100
Yeah. 
No, there's no problem. 

577
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:26,000
Gamifying a game. 
It's a fucking game. 

578
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,700
Like you just said it doesn't 
have to be a simulation. 

579
00:35:27,700 --> 00:35:30,500
It doesn't have to be completely
historically accurate. 

580
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,000
But it doesn't have to be 
realistic. 

581
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,800
Like it doesn't, I wouldn't 
even, I would even say like, it 

582
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,900
shouldn't be realistic, like it 
is a game, we're all playing a 

583
00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:41,700
game to have fun, doesn't 
mechanic need to have a 

584
00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:45,900
justification in the real world 
for it to make sense in the game

585
00:35:45,900 --> 00:35:47,900
and be fun. 
Abso-fucking-lutely not, you 

586
00:35:47,900 --> 00:35:51,000
know what I mean? 
So when you people can like just

587
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,400
say, like, it's a game, like you
can just play a game, it's fine 

588
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,400
and and that comes up I think a 
lot in March of water were, I 

589
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,700
mean in that instance Call it 
out where you're like, does make

590
00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:02,800
sense? 
Who cares to play the fucking 

591
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,100
game but like there's a lot of 
parts where you're like this. 

592
00:36:06,100 --> 00:36:09,900
It's a solo game like or 
cooperative but like there has 

593
00:36:09,900 --> 00:36:12,600
to be a set. 
There has to be a certain amount

594
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,800
of I don't like AI or something 
involved in. 

595
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,500
You just have to go with the 
process of the procedures 

596
00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:25,300
involved in it and if you were 
to make this completely real, I 

597
00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:27,500
mean a, you would die 
immediately, but be like you 

598
00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:33,200
wouldn't be as fun, you know. 
Yeah, absolutely. lutely that So

599
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,200
you like shit. 
How did I just roll ones like 

600
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:46,000
consistently for 10 Rounds? 
Yeah, it's It's so much fun than

601
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,300
built-in mixed into that, like 
the choices that you do have. 

602
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,400
You know I who didn't love a 
Choose Your Own Adventure book 

603
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,100
back in the day like yeah. 
Surely. 

604
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,800
And like I said, the tone that 
we're writing it in it's like 

605
00:37:01,900 --> 00:37:05,500
it's just we giggle so much. 
Just playing ourselves. 

606
00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:08,700
Really true just like giggling 
during play testing. 

607
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,200
Oh shit I forgot. 
I wrote that. 

608
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,300
You know. 
And, you know, like we generally

609
00:37:15,300 --> 00:37:19,400
play test with numerous people, 
so that we just can't ignore 

610
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:24,900
Minds on it, you know? 
But we do know that he doesn't, 

611
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:28,400
let me read anything until we 
play test it. 

612
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,300
Apparently he had values my 
opinion or something. 

613
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,500
Well, you know, we have don't 
really, you know and where your 

614
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:38,800
choices lead before you test 
them out, but even when we play 

615
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,600
testing, despite the fact that 
like You know, being as it's a 

616
00:37:42,607 --> 00:37:45,800
choose-your-own-adventure ish 
type experience, like there are 

617
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,600
like definitive end points, 
right? 

618
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,700
Like, there's choices to be made
that you can't really deviate, 

619
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,700
right? 
But despite that we find 

620
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:58,700
ourselves like role-playing and 
characters and like yelling at 

621
00:37:58,700 --> 00:38:02,000
each other, like they are in a 
line and screwing up and falling

622
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,900
over each other. 
I love there's no good people. 

623
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:12,900
And not bottom is just a bunch 
of filthy Rogues doing Rogue 

624
00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:17,500
shit. 
Yeah, I mean, there's a new 

625
00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:19,100
tagline for the game right 
there. 

626
00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:22,400
If you need another pit, she'll 
be Rogues doing bunch of filthy 

627
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,700
drug to drug shit. 
Yeah, exactly. 

628
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,000
No. 
Um, look, but like I said, I 

629
00:38:28,008 --> 00:38:31,600
mean, this is, It's I love that 
we're doing this now. 

630
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,000
This is the kind of game 
especially now and I mean for a 

631
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:39,200
while, exact I want to play is 
this isn't like gleaming armor 

632
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,500
on a paladin like while you're 
battling a dragon. 

633
00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:44,200
Like you just said it's filthy 
Rogues doing Rogue shit. 

634
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,300
You're just like stomping 
through. 

635
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,400
Through like monster shit down 
there and and stabbing stuff for

636
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,700
gold. 
Like it's so it's fun in a very 

637
00:38:53,700 --> 00:38:57,500
different way than like I said, 
then like hero Adventures or 

638
00:38:57,500 --> 00:39:02,000
things like that and especially 
the solo play options for it. 

639
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,100
Are absolutely fantastic. 
Like it really feels like it 

640
00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:06,600
balances. 
Well, you know, because you go 

641
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,100
like you can either play, you 
know, one player, four, players 

642
00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:12,400
and ago, this is this third 
player, I you get a contract and

643
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,300
then like, you know, fourth 
player. 

644
00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:19,800
You keep going it. 
Feels really good. 

645
00:39:19,900 --> 00:39:22,300
I don't know. 
I know that sounds like basic as

646
00:39:22,300 --> 00:39:25,900
fuck, but like it, flickers, 
you're reading through your just

647
00:39:25,900 --> 00:39:28,300
like this, all make sense. 
Like I totally get it like just 

648
00:39:28,300 --> 00:39:30,400
because like, if you added in 
like another person, it's not 

649
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:38,200
like it completely break the 
game, but Are there? 

650
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,600
I know you just said you have a 
lot of stuff play in and you're 

651
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,100
happy with where the first books
are in stuff like that. 

652
00:39:44,300 --> 00:39:47,600
Do you looking back on it now? 
Are there things in it? 

653
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,800
Where you're like, mmm, like 
maybe I could tweak this for a 

654
00:39:49,808 --> 00:39:53,800
second edition or is most of the
stuff you're working on now. 

655
00:39:55,900 --> 00:40:01,000
Yeah, 100 per se. 
Character sheets are way too big

656
00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:06,100
if you're playing by yourself. 
Like, it's just the what are 

657
00:40:06,100 --> 00:40:09,700
the, what do they call it James?
The table, the table footprint 

658
00:40:09,700 --> 00:40:10,600
is. 
Yeah. 

659
00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:12,700
Pretty big. 
And I feel like the balance 

660
00:40:12,700 --> 00:40:14,800
sheets actually, do a really 
good job of mitigating that 

661
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,900
available on our current 
campaign. 

662
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,200
Like, we expected this to be a 
much smaller project, like it 

663
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,900
was fours inquest, right? 
We thought it was going to be 

664
00:40:26,908 --> 00:40:29,700
one little scene. 
Stay stable. 

665
00:40:29,700 --> 00:40:30,800
Obviously. 
It wasn't. 

666
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,200
Yeah, stable bound. 
We thought we were going to get 

667
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,600
away with one staple pound 
scene. 

668
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:39,400
Instead of like two books in a 
pack of cards and because of 

669
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:44,400
that like like now after the 
first two books we have 

670
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,800
everything going through an 
editor that did not happen with 

671
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,200
the first book. 
Unfortunately. 

672
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,600
I'm like I don't think there's 
anything glaringly horrible 

673
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,100
about it but it could be 
clearer, you know. 

674
00:40:55,700 --> 00:41:00,500
And also they escaped rules. 
I have regrets about the Xscape 

675
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:05,000
rules and I think I wasn't even 
thinking about offering an 

676
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,000
alternative in an upcoming Del 
just to, like have something 

677
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,000
that's a little better because 
like the way they're written. 

678
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,500
Now if you wanted if you want 
the whole party to escape it's 

679
00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:16,800
going to take them four rounds 
to do so. 

680
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,300
And if you're trying to run away
like four rounds, someone's 

681
00:41:19,300 --> 00:41:21,100
probably gonna be dead by that 
point. 

682
00:41:23,100 --> 00:41:26,400
Well, especially one like, if 
you have two people left in 

683
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,100
there, still, like, for bad 
guys, I mean, you got a lot of, 

684
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,600
you know, right? 
Right. 

685
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,900
You're like, you're taking away,
the amount of people that could 

686
00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:36,800
be fighting wild, like, and if 
you're running away, things are 

687
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,100
probably already going wrong, 
you know. 

688
00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:46,200
Um, I agree and disagree. 
I mean, maybe we could tweak 

689
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:51,100
them a little bit, but, you 
know, most people that died in 

690
00:41:51,100 --> 00:41:56,300
battles were during a retreat 
basically. 

691
00:41:58,900 --> 00:42:03,900
So, Axl opportunity simulation 
game game? 

692
00:42:05,700 --> 00:42:08,700
Yeah, I did actually recently 
have some thoughts on that. 

693
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:10,800
I'll talk to you about 
eventually grab. 

694
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,400
So all right so is there 
potentially a future plan for 

695
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,800
marching order to e? 
The Kirsten Cohen Edition? 

696
00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:23,700
Yes. 
Yeah we haven't named we have an

697
00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:25,500
ongoing document of like these 
are things. 

698
00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:29,300
We want to change and I think 
also also a big part of it is 

699
00:42:29,300 --> 00:42:33,600
going to be like, With every 
well with a lot of the Dells 

700
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,900
that come out, there's new 
mechanics, being added and new 

701
00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:40,900
monsters and stuff. 
Like, I think Onyx Tower didn't 

702
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:44,200
really have too much in the way 
of new mechanics, but the 

703
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,600
noodles too quick and dirty, 
he's currently available on 

704
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:51,300
Indiegogo, they yeah, those are 
all vegetable oil. 

705
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,800
One of them is like an escort 
Mission which introduces a new 

706
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,800
mechanic trying to get, sir 
Graham for through the woods and

707
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,000
vanity and asshole. 
And the other one has a 

708
00:43:03,100 --> 00:43:05,700
everyone, like my favorite, one 
of them, like, I don't love all 

709
00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:07,700
my children. 
Equally my favorite one of the 

710
00:43:07,700 --> 00:43:12,100
new Dells is pendulous pillaged.
And the idea behind that one is 

711
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,100
like, pendulous is like the most
well-known wizard in Rock 

712
00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:18,400
Bottom, which means he has those
good wizard drugs, you know. 

713
00:43:18,700 --> 00:43:21,500
So he's On a bender, he's out on
the town, square, yelling 

714
00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:23,600
prophecy, that makes absolutely 
no sense. 

715
00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:26,700
Last time that the guards tried 
to do that. 

716
00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:29,800
Lord tried to like, rain, a man 
and get him back to his house. 

717
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,500
Most of them were turned into 
like puppies with diarrhea. 

718
00:43:32,500 --> 00:43:35,200
So, like, everyone's just kind 
of letting him wear himself out,

719
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,300
but because he's not home, your 
Rogues are like great. 

720
00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:42,500
Let's go pillage a Wizard's 
House and you have to actually 

721
00:43:42,500 --> 00:43:45,900
set up a little deck from like a
standard deck of cards that are 

722
00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:48,100
kind of like your Random 
Encounters for it. 

723
00:43:48,300 --> 00:43:50,900
But it also is like a Form of 
timekeeping, right? 

724
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,400
Because like, I forget what card
it is. 

725
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,700
But if you draw it the first 
time, it's like, okay, put it 

726
00:43:55,700 --> 00:43:58,600
back in the deck but if you draw
it again, the Wizards coming 

727
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,200
home and you're gonna have to 
deal with them. 

728
00:44:00,700 --> 00:44:03,200
So it kind of puts that like 
time pressure on their in a 

729
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,000
different way that torches do. 
But yeah, like I can see like in

730
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:11,900
future editions a just to get 
general cleaning up like some 

731
00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:18,400
rules tweaks, but also just like
the the far like the lurker and 

732
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,300
the dust clue. 
Would, which is, like, a really 

733
00:44:20,300 --> 00:44:22,200
big deal. 
I'm currently Reading Writing 

734
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,600
that won't see the light of day 
for a while, but like I have a 

735
00:44:25,607 --> 00:44:29,700
lot of new fun mechanics, I'm 
putting in there with it, and I 

736
00:44:29,700 --> 00:44:34,300
could just see a second edition.
Also being used to consolidate 

737
00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:36,700
them all in one place because 
that's it. 

738
00:44:36,700 --> 00:44:39,400
Is now like if they're only in 
the 1, Del when I want to resume

739
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,100
in another do that, probably 
means I need to have a Rewritten

740
00:44:42,100 --> 00:44:44,500
there or at least have some way 
for people to access it via 

741
00:44:44,500 --> 00:44:53,200
email, right? 
So, short answer, yes, you talk 

742
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,400
to you talk to a couple of times
about, like, things that aren't 

743
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,500
going to see the light of day 
for, like, the long time, like, 

744
00:44:58,500 --> 00:45:02,200
how, like, how rough estimate? 
Like, how many things is, are, 

745
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,300
are in the queue right now? 
Are we gonna like, see multiple,

746
00:45:06,500 --> 00:45:10,000
like, delves a year coming out? 
Because I know the Indiegogo 

747
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,600
campaign. 
It was, I mean, it was 

748
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,500
relatively small. 
Like, I was surprised, the, the 

749
00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:17,000
fun and goals, only $500 for it,
and it fucking blew past that 

750
00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:22,000
Are you planning on a lot of 
small kind of projects like that

751
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,200
project was or bigger things 
like Onyx Tower? 

752
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:29,700
Or so we have the sewers is next
or at least part 1 of the sewers

753
00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:36,700
that'll be a randomly generated 
dungeon that can people going 

754
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:42,700
for as long as they want to go 
down there and then the quick 

755
00:45:42,700 --> 00:45:46,500
and dirty tournament are going 
to be kind of a recurring thing 

756
00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:49,900
where you know maybe in the 
future, we'll do a monthly 

757
00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:51,600
subscription or something like 
that. 

758
00:45:51,900 --> 00:45:55,700
But for now, those are going to 
be kind of the in-between. 

759
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:00,000
The bigger books, just to give 
people stuff to do. 

760
00:46:00,700 --> 00:46:02,400
Yeah. 
Because like the bigger books 

761
00:46:02,500 --> 00:46:06,000
are a lot of fun, but they think
alike, they take us alive for in

762
00:46:06,008 --> 00:46:09,500
time to put out. 
So that was kind of part of our 

763
00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:11,600
experiment with the quick and 
dirty is that are going on right

764
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,800
now was like, can we get these 
like single-serve dials out 

765
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,900
there and are people going to be
into and yeah, like I really 

766
00:46:20,900 --> 00:46:25,200
enjoyed playing third of myself 
and they lasted about like three

767
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,400
hours. 
Or so a piece, which like feel 

768
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,100
like that's pretty good for a 
single Adventure, you know. 

769
00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:34,300
So they're like, we don't have 
any more quick and dirty is 

770
00:46:34,308 --> 00:46:38,000
officially on the docket yet, 
but also like they're in a much 

771
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,400
easier thing, this slip in. 
But yeah, the sewers, the sewers

772
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,200
is the farthest along, right? 
Now the sewers is all written to

773
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,400
Services, play tested. 
Brad is like on the precipice of

774
00:46:49,408 --> 00:46:52,400
getting into layout for it. 
We have the art for it as well. 

775
00:46:53,900 --> 00:46:57,200
And I think that's I think 
that's I think people are really

776
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,400
going to enjoy that one because 
I think a lot of people have 

777
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,300
been maybe a little hesitant of 
getting into marching order 

778
00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:04,600
because you're relying on the 
Dells. 

779
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,900
Like if you play through all the
does your kind of at the end of 

780
00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:11,600
marching order but the sewers 
has that random dungeon 

781
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:16,700
generation to it that yeah you 
can keep going for as long as 

782
00:47:16,700 --> 00:47:21,600
you want and I think it does it 
in a way that is Unique, and 

783
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:26,000
also works to keep the tone of 
marching order and doesn't feel 

784
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,200
like just a okay and your room 
new group of Monsters, new room,

785
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,900
new group, of monsters. 
Yell like doesn't just feel like

786
00:47:32,900 --> 00:47:37,600
I can repetitive fight forever. 
So yeah, the sewers are next on 

787
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,800
the list. 
You're talking about new 

788
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,500
mechanics, that introduces 
something called an escalation 

789
00:47:43,500 --> 00:47:49,200
dice, that ensures that you're 
not going to just be going 

790
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,500
through. 
Like random rooms consistently 

791
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:55,500
it's going to every time you 
come to an encounter, it 

792
00:47:55,900 --> 00:47:58,900
escalates things. 
So the next time it might be a 

793
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,700
even stronger boss or might find
better loot. 

794
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,100
Yeah, yeah, like dude, what's in
the rooms is are a bunch of 

795
00:48:09,100 --> 00:48:13,200
random tables and you roll a D6 
and add whatever the escalation 

796
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,200
dice currently is, so like the 
higher up options in the table 

797
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,800
are more dangerous. 
Monster encounters were straps 

798
00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:25,400
but also better loot. 
So the longer you're down there,

799
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,800
like the risk-reward. 
Both keep ramping up as your 

800
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,600
resources, have already been 
drained a bit, but that's also 

801
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,500
goes back to life. 
I think before, de-escalation 

802
00:48:35,500 --> 00:48:38,800
dice, the reason the sewers took
so long to come out is because I

803
00:48:38,808 --> 00:48:41,400
had to do a whole rewrite around
that escalation dice. 

804
00:48:41,700 --> 00:48:45,900
I think it was missing that 
interesting choices thing, 

805
00:48:45,900 --> 00:48:47,700
right? 
Because it was all just random, 

806
00:48:47,700 --> 00:48:53,100
you could run into anything at 
any time and so it's like the 

807
00:48:53,100 --> 00:48:56,000
escalation dies, kind of put 
that timer aspect to it. 

808
00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:58,900
Of the longer were down here, 
the worse. 

809
00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:02,100
It's going to get but also the 
higher the possibility of awards

810
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,300
So in this is the so the next 
two things I haven't really 

811
00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:11,200
talked about a lot yet because 
they're not far enough allow 

812
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,500
around on long for me to really 
like talk too much about, but 

813
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:17,000
let's chat about him a little 
bit. 

814
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:24,700
So I'm in the midst of like to 
larger projects right now that 

815
00:49:24,700 --> 00:49:27,700
are rock, bottom focused. 
And I can't wait to get one of 

816
00:49:27,707 --> 00:49:31,000
them done because I don't know 
why I'm doing to larger projects

817
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:36,000
at the same time but The two 
things I'm writing currently 

818
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,900
what is called lurker and the 
dust plume would at least for 

819
00:49:39,900 --> 00:49:41,800
now it is I think that's 
probably going to be this title 

820
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:49,900
and it kind of goes back to the 
original delves in the Dell vers

821
00:49:49,900 --> 00:49:54,800
guide and plays off of them with
some of the ramifications of 

822
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,400
what came before. 
But it's also going to be like, 

823
00:49:58,700 --> 00:50:02,300
it's going to be massive. 
I'm currently at 600 entries, 

824
00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:06,300
which is more Then all of the 
entries in the original book. 

825
00:50:06,900 --> 00:50:10,300
He's put together, I don't think
it's, it's still going. 

826
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:17,200
I think it's, you know, like a 
lot of the focus on the tell so 

827
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,600
far have been killing things 
getting looped and like it's 

828
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,900
just been kind of like a fun 
mechanical romp and like which 

829
00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:25,300
is cool. 
I love that and I want to do 

830
00:50:25,300 --> 00:50:27,100
more of those. 
And I think that's like a lot of

831
00:50:27,100 --> 00:50:30,900
what quick and dirty is will do 
I think Master of the Onyx tower

832
00:50:30,900 --> 00:50:34,500
started to get more into a like 
Like oh there's a cool story 

833
00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:39,800
behind this and worker is going 
to be likely the first in a 

834
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:45,300
multiple dealt book series that 
it goes off through a little bit

835
00:50:45,300 --> 00:50:49,800
more of the like Rock Bottom 
metal story while still being a 

836
00:50:49,808 --> 00:50:54,800
bunch of Rogues fucking up and 
trying to steal shit didn't 

837
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,000
rupture. 
Which oh yeah, James because 

838
00:50:58,300 --> 00:51:02,700
we've talked about it before we 
want to slowly evolve. 

839
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:07,300
L've rock-bottom, like because 
we both love world-building and 

840
00:51:07,300 --> 00:51:08,800
yeah, that's really true about 
us. 

841
00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:13,100
But we don't want to shove too 
much into each book, you know, 

842
00:51:13,100 --> 00:51:17,800
because, you know, nobody wants 
to read, you know, a thousand 

843
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,400
pages on the dark or not the 
dark domain. 

844
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,500
Forgotten. 
Those forgotten places. 

845
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,400
Like, it's Realms, that people, 
maybe don't remember. 

846
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,000
You know, those people that do 
want to read that. 

847
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:33,900
Probably have the similarity in 
in hand already. 

848
00:51:34,900 --> 00:51:36,000
Sure. 
Sure. 

849
00:51:37,100 --> 00:51:40,300
So, when you try not to shove 
too much into people, but we are

850
00:51:40,300 --> 00:51:45,400
definitely evolving the town. 
And like, It's fun. 

851
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,900
Yeah, it is like I'll talk about
the next project and sackbut for

852
00:51:50,900 --> 00:51:53,700
a while and these are still 
available on our website. 

853
00:51:53,700 --> 00:51:56,900
We were doing the Rock Bottom 
gossip, which was like a little 

854
00:51:56,900 --> 00:52:02,300
newspaper out of rock, bottom, 
that was used to partially, fuck

855
00:52:02,300 --> 00:52:07,900
around, but also, partially to 
introduce more story about rock,

856
00:52:07,900 --> 00:52:10,000
bottom, and Rogues, and how they
all came about. 

857
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,300
There's actually one issue when 
into the like, why are there so 

858
00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:15,500
many roads and rock? 
Bottom and gave the Historical 

859
00:52:15,500 --> 00:52:20,000
reasons of like, well, there's a
great war and rock-bottom hired 

860
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,700
a bunch of mercenaries just in 
case it spilled over into their 

861
00:52:22,700 --> 00:52:26,000
bottom of their borders, it 
never did, but they spent the 

862
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,700
whole treasury on these 
mercenaries who ended up 

863
00:52:28,700 --> 00:52:31,800
settling into town. 
Once they were, unemployed spent

864
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,600
all their money gambling and 
drinking and the Next Generation

865
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,600
basically, like, did have any 
life skills and became the 

866
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,600
Rogues of Rock Bottom, we know 
today, but yeah, it was just a 

867
00:52:41,607 --> 00:52:44,300
fun way to like kind of up the 
World building of the whole 

868
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:48,900
thing. 
So the other project started 

869
00:52:49,500 --> 00:52:51,700
when we were doing fulfillment 
for this first project which 

870
00:52:51,700 --> 00:52:54,900
like we do The Fifth Element by 
hand, like we sort the cards, we

871
00:52:54,900 --> 00:52:57,900
packed the boxes. 
So like that marching order box 

872
00:52:57,900 --> 00:53:01,000
set like we got all those 
components separately folded 

873
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,900
together, two boxes, put the 
books at etc, etc etc. 

874
00:53:05,300 --> 00:53:08,200
So it's very our first 
Kickstarter where we were 

875
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,900
sorting like thousands of cards.
We are like around the table and

876
00:53:11,900 --> 00:53:15,000
just like had Stacks a card 
somewhere walking. 

877
00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:17,100
And the table placing a card in 
each stack. 

878
00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:20,100
And then starting over again for
like fucking out. 

879
00:53:20,100 --> 00:53:23,200
Not hours days, really know. 
It was literally nice. 

880
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:23,900
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

881
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:26,600
Literally days. 
And in the midst of that cards, 

882
00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:29,600
well we're questioning like all 
of our life choices. 

883
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,800
And if we ever want to do this 
again, I turned a Brad and I 

884
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,900
think like I just gave you the 
title first. 

885
00:53:35,900 --> 00:53:37,500
Like, I don't think I explained 
myself. 

886
00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:40,200
It's just like Brett gangs of 
Rock Bottom. 

887
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,000
Can I explain? 
Yeah, please don't you have a 

888
00:53:44,008 --> 00:53:45,700
bite memoriae. 
Yeah. 

889
00:53:46,700 --> 00:53:50,000
No, I think we were up late like
till 1 a.m. or something like 

890
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,600
that, working on it and then you
were able to wait for sure. 

891
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,700
And I was, I was like just 
drifting off to sleep. 

892
00:53:55,700 --> 00:53:57,500
And you came back in and you're 
like Pratt. 

893
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,500
Gangs of Rock Bottom. 
Just hear me out. 

894
00:54:03,500 --> 00:54:05,800
Just hear me out. 
I don't know how many times I've

895
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:11,100
heard those words just hear me 
out like, you know, since you 

896
00:54:11,100 --> 00:54:14,400
normally we're not in the same 
place, I just message you at 

897
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,100
those times. 
Night and be like Brad. 

898
00:54:16,100 --> 00:54:21,400
What about this? 
And so that you behind gangs of 

899
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,700
Rock, Bottom is actually going 
to be a new game but set in rock

900
00:54:25,700 --> 00:54:31,900
bottom and it's going to be a 
mint like Miniatures, agnostic, 

901
00:54:31,900 --> 00:54:39,500
Skirmish game kind of like 
forbidden forbidden Psalms or 

902
00:54:40,300 --> 00:54:44,900
Frost grave or things like that.
Rangers of Shadow deep in the 

903
00:54:44,900 --> 00:54:48,800
thought was like, okay, so each 
person and then there's like 

904
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,500
definitely gonna be a solo. 
And like ran right into it. 

905
00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:57,200
But each person plays a gang of 
Ruffians which are like ropes 

906
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,800
going to dungeons. 
Ruffians are in The Gangs right 

907
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:06,200
at in rock bottom and the first 
It's going to be a similar 

908
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,000
format in a sense of like 
there's going to be a book of 

909
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,900
rules of how to play the game 
and then there will be a book of

910
00:55:10,900 --> 00:55:13,200
scenarios I most likely. 
This is all very much in the 

911
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,400
works of the different 
scenarios. 

912
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,100
You can fight each other through
and whatnot and it's going to 

913
00:55:20,100 --> 00:55:23,800
start down at the Docks of rock 
bottom. 

914
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:28,300
So you're like fighting to 
control the docks and so like 

915
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,400
you by your Ruffians just like 
you would buy your roads and the

916
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,800
outfit with Beer soda, mechanics
are going to feel familiar. 

917
00:55:34,900 --> 00:55:39,000
Earlier, but it's meant to be 
played like two dimensional 

918
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,700
instead of one dimensional. 
You're not all going to be 

919
00:55:40,700 --> 00:55:44,200
aligned like you're moving 
figures around terrain and 

920
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:51,100
whatnot and like there's good 
you're trying to get the like I 

921
00:55:51,100 --> 00:55:54,800
wanted it to be. 
I'd like a lot of the like 

922
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,500
system. 
Agnostic Miniatures games out 

923
00:55:56,500 --> 00:56:02,700
there but I wanted to have more 
of a like More of a campaign 

924
00:56:02,700 --> 00:56:06,000
structure to it that like you 
get to develop through play. 

925
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,000
So just like in marching order, 
you can get your coin and you 

926
00:56:09,008 --> 00:56:11,700
can upgrade your roads, you can 
upgrade your Ruffians. 

927
00:56:11,700 --> 00:56:15,000
But you can also like, take over
pieces of turf that give you 

928
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,100
static ongoing benefits. 
Like, if you own the local bar, 

929
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,200
everyone gets a bonus morale 
because they're a little bit 

930
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,100
happier at the end of the day, 
you know? 

931
00:56:23,500 --> 00:56:27,900
Yeah. 
And if you can basically like, 

932
00:56:29,300 --> 00:56:31,500
you win by getting a certain 
amount of currently called 

933
00:56:31,500 --> 00:56:34,000
Prestige points. 
And if you can get enough Turf, 

934
00:56:34,100 --> 00:56:35,500
fill that up and Prestige 
points. 

935
00:56:35,500 --> 00:56:39,100
But you can also get patrons. 
If you give them what they want,

936
00:56:39,100 --> 00:56:43,700
like one of them might want you 
to have a cache of weapons but 

937
00:56:43,700 --> 00:56:45,800
also kill this monster or 
something like that. 

938
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:50,900
So, It's meant to have a lot of 
thought during play but also 

939
00:56:50,900 --> 00:56:53,400
like in between games, the 
thought of like okay what 

940
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:54,900
location do I want to go through
next? 

941
00:56:54,900 --> 00:56:58,200
But patrons am I going for how? 
I want to upgrade things, I 

942
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,500
wanted to put like a lot of 
emphasis on the campaign play 

943
00:57:01,500 --> 00:57:03,700
and the in-between game aspect 
of it. 

944
00:57:03,700 --> 00:57:06,400
I don't like when you're 
advancing your character in most

945
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,600
RPGs and you're like, what 
skills do I want to take? 

946
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,500
How do I want to level is 
personal, you know? 

947
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,100
But it's set on a crew, right? 
Right? 

948
00:57:15,100 --> 00:57:17,100
Right. 
Instead of just a single person.

949
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:22,000
Has a like a blades in the dark,
kind of that's third came, 

950
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:22,600
right? 
James. 

951
00:57:22,700 --> 00:57:23,300
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

952
00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:24,800
Blades. 
In the dark goes to Rock Bottom.

953
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,300
Yeah, it happened after I watch 
Gangs of New York, honestly. 

954
00:57:30,500 --> 00:57:32,000
Yeah. 
I mean, five points and 

955
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:36,300
everything you gotta Daniel 
Day-Lewis, I mean, totally, most

956
00:57:36,300 --> 00:57:38,700
underrated actors of our time, 
my opinion. 

957
00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:42,000
And that was Kind of watch out 
again, because good flick. 

958
00:57:42,900 --> 00:57:45,300
Yeah, no, it sounds. 
I mean, that sounds amazing. 

959
00:57:45,300 --> 00:57:48,400
So that, I mean, it's still 
marching order but like, it's 

960
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,800
going to completely new game, 
like Isaac. 

961
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,200
Still gonna is just going to be 
marching order gangs of Rock 

962
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,200
Bottom, like, it's still gonna, 
obviously be under the same 

963
00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:00,700
umbrella, it's same world, but I
mean, you're pitching. 

964
00:58:00,700 --> 00:58:04,500
It is like a hole, literally, a 
completely new game, like, just 

965
00:58:04,500 --> 00:58:08,000
like, kind of the brother, of 
Martin were right? 

966
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,900
Yeah, yeah there's going to be 
like Like a lot of things out of

967
00:58:11,908 --> 00:58:15,600
his tell Yer. 
It's built its unforgotten 

968
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,500
cousin. 
You know, like the a lot of 

969
00:58:19,500 --> 00:58:22,200
times when I was like, figure 
out inventory and things like 

970
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,300
that and stuff you could outfit,
your Ruffian switch with. 

971
00:58:25,300 --> 00:58:29,400
I went back to marching order 
and looked at the General Store 

972
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:33,100
there and like because I wanted 
to feel like a coherent world. 

973
00:58:33,100 --> 00:58:36,400
Like these people are existing 
in the same place but while 

974
00:58:36,700 --> 00:58:39,700
these Rogues are going down into
forgotten Crypts and Dungeons 

975
00:58:39,700 --> 00:58:42,400
and Like other places in the 
future. 

976
00:58:43,300 --> 00:58:46,500
These fools are like Mooring in 
the streets and robbing 

977
00:58:46,500 --> 00:58:50,500
warehouses and like are just 
like totally different life 

978
00:58:50,500 --> 00:58:52,300
path. 
Just kind of existing in the 

979
00:58:52,300 --> 00:58:58,000
same city, you know? 
Well I mean and you there's docs

980
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:02,400
to so in the future you could 
have Pirates of Rob bottom two 

981
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,700
and have a whole seafaring. 
Think it's funny because like it

982
00:59:05,700 --> 00:59:08,900
does cause me to think like when
I realized this was in the docks

983
00:59:08,900 --> 00:59:11,100
I was like oh so Rob Adams on 
the see. 

984
00:59:11,500 --> 00:59:14,000
What does that mean for future 
Dells and World building? 

985
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:18,400
You know, like definitely mine. 
and I think we're going to be 

986
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:23,500
able to, like, you're gonna be 
able to use the same gambling 

987
00:59:23,500 --> 00:59:27,400
games in the core book of rock, 
bottom or marching order fin, 

988
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,100
Ruffians diet. 
But so far, I think that's the 

989
00:59:30,100 --> 00:59:32,900
only crossover mechanically 
between the two that you need. 

990
00:59:32,900 --> 00:59:40,400
One for the other. 
Yeah we also have in the works 

991
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:48,200
some like Characters that you 
can not Rogues, but people that 

992
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:52,500
you can bring along with it, 
we're calling them, the Richards

993
00:59:52,500 --> 00:59:54,900
of Rock Bottom, because they're 
all dicks. 

994
00:59:55,500 --> 01:00:02,500
Like you're you're opinionated 
uncle or your drunk uncle, 

995
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:09,500
there's like a puppy. 
So the idea oh yeah, your X. 

996
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,500
So the idea would be that they 
have, you know, they're a 

997
01:00:13,700 --> 01:00:20,200
actions and such, but there 
would be more of like They are a

998
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,800
detriment because you're you're 
taking something that doesn't 

999
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,600
actually isn't going to be in 
the fight but they would have 

1000
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:32,000
some kind of added benefit at 
the end like like what did you 

1001
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:33,500
get this personal and through 
Liddell. 

1002
01:00:33,500 --> 01:00:36,800
Yeah yeah you get this or that 
you know. 

1003
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:43,500
So it's it's less like it's less
like a companion or like a 

1004
01:00:43,500 --> 01:00:47,200
hireling and more like a ball 
and chain is yes? 

1005
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:48,500
What it is. 
Absolutely. 

1006
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:50,900
What are would be a reward for 
it? 

1007
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,300
You know, like a lot of like you
know I like I feel like they 

1008
01:00:55,300 --> 01:00:57,800
need to give this cleaner when I
feel like one of the characters 

1009
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,200
is your ex like we advocate for 
healthy relationships in the 

1010
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:05,500
world world and treating people 
with respect that said, when 

1011
01:01:05,500 --> 01:01:09,100
people in Rock Bottom, they 
don't have a lot of Social and 

1012
01:01:09,100 --> 01:01:14,200
Telecom motional intelligence. 
So that the say that Yeah, which

1013
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,200
is why there's an X through 
until finally leave you alone, 

1014
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:20,700
you know. 
And they re yeah, yeah. 

1015
01:01:20,700 --> 01:01:23,000
And like the puppy, if you bring
the puppy along, it's going to 

1016
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,700
be like, really cute looking but
like, it's bullshit. 

1017
01:01:25,700 --> 01:01:28,100
Rules are going to be literally,
at shits everywhere, like things

1018
01:01:28,100 --> 01:01:30,000
like that. 
That's awesome. 

1019
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:31,300
I mean, that sounds very 
important order. 

1020
01:01:32,100 --> 01:01:33,300
Okay. 
Yeah. 

1021
01:01:33,300 --> 01:01:35,900
This was Brad's brainchild and I
kind of love it. 

1022
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,000
Yeah, no, that's awesome. 
So is that just going to be like

1023
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,400
a kind of an add-on like in a 
delve? 

1024
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,900
Here's like. 
Take this fucking puppy like 

1025
01:01:43,900 --> 01:01:47,400
have fun, right? 
Yeah, it won't be a probably 

1026
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:48,900
won't be a delve in and of 
itself. 

1027
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:53,300
Like I'm thinking about really 
you for the sewers, right? 

1028
01:01:53,500 --> 01:02:00,200
Right your in-law. 
One of their bullshit would be, 

1029
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:05,500
you know, when my angel was a 
wee one the effect is stuns 

1030
01:02:05,500 --> 01:02:13,800
through boredom, so no probably 
its own little Zine, that's 

1031
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:18,100
awesome. 
One of the things you said, at 

1032
01:02:18,107 --> 01:02:21,100
one point that I guess I didn't 
really put two and two together 

1033
01:02:21,100 --> 01:02:24,400
with it is that March wonder is 
really dependent on the delves 

1034
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,700
though like one since it is kind
of like a, like you said, almost

1035
01:02:27,700 --> 01:02:30,400
kind of like a monkey gamebook. 
Like Choose Your Own Adventure 

1036
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,700
kind of path. 
Like I guess people could write 

1037
01:02:32,700 --> 01:02:37,400
their own delves. 
But if if you're playing through

1038
01:02:38,500 --> 01:02:40,700
and you get through all the 
delves I guess it's kind of it 

1039
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:45,300
so it is interesting and 
obviously you've run across that

1040
01:02:45,300 --> 01:02:47,000
that's why you're doing 
something like Like the sewers. 

1041
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:50,200
Do you think that a lot of the 
Dells going forward or going to 

1042
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,500
have more of that aspect? 
You talk about the sewers where 

1043
01:02:52,500 --> 01:02:56,100
there's more like kind of like 
infinite random generation along

1044
01:02:56,100 --> 01:02:57,800
with it. 
So that there is a lot more 

1045
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,700
playability with it, or is it 
going to kind of be a? 

1046
01:03:00,700 --> 01:03:02,300
It sounds like they're just 
going to mix them all sorts of 

1047
01:03:02,300 --> 01:03:05,400
stuff like some quick and dirty.
He's some kind of more said some

1048
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,900
like you know a little more 
broad like sewer. 

1049
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,500
Yeah like I think you know at as
it stands right now you know 

1050
01:03:13,500 --> 01:03:15,900
like this this isn't something 
that we started to work on 

1051
01:03:15,900 --> 01:03:19,900
passing. the first installment, 
but for that random generation, 

1052
01:03:19,900 --> 01:03:24,600
we're going to have the sewers, 
but we're going to have like The

1053
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:27,600
first installment of the sewers 
is pretty expansive. 

1054
01:03:27,900 --> 01:03:29,800
It can keep you going for a long
time. 

1055
01:03:30,100 --> 01:03:33,800
It does rely on monsters and 
everything from the court book. 

1056
01:03:34,300 --> 01:03:37,700
So like you are a little bit 
Limited in variety there but 

1057
01:03:37,700 --> 01:03:41,600
still like with the because it's
not all combat by far. 

1058
01:03:43,100 --> 01:03:47,700
There's like I think there's 
Encounter table. 

1059
01:03:47,700 --> 01:03:53,500
A trap table, a loot table. 
Yeah. 

1060
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,900
And then there's a special table
and I missing one Monster and 

1061
01:03:57,908 --> 01:04:02,300
the special table is a bunch of,
like it's a d66 table, like, 

1062
01:04:02,300 --> 01:04:05,100
special encounters at wouldn't 
really fit elsewhere. 

1063
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:12,000
But yeah, I like it. 
Despite the limitations of the 

1064
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,200
Mountain Monsters, what not like
I feel like it stays fresh for 

1065
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:20,500
really long time so that said we
do want to do more random type 

1066
01:04:20,500 --> 01:04:22,700
things in the future. 
But as of now it's probably 

1067
01:04:22,700 --> 01:04:25,200
going to be under the sewers 
banner and there will be 

1068
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,100
different levels of the sewers. 
Like right now it's all on one 

1069
01:04:28,100 --> 01:04:34,300
level and then the next time 
we'll add rules for like binding

1070
01:04:34,300 --> 01:04:36,800
staircases to go down to the 
next level which would be a 

1071
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:41,700
whole different set. 
Of tables and what not and 

1072
01:04:41,700 --> 01:04:44,700
probably include new monsters. 
There are some you monsters in 

1073
01:04:44,700 --> 01:04:47,800
the sewers but they're all like 
the boss ones but they are 

1074
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:56,500
pretty fun. 
It's right to do so. 

1075
01:04:56,900 --> 01:05:02,400
I mean, we do still want to keep
the aspect of like a single 

1076
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:07,500
story adventure and 
unfortunately, like we were only

1077
01:05:07,500 --> 01:05:12,700
gonna be able to do that like 
every so often like the dust 

1078
01:05:12,700 --> 01:05:15,000
whom dust Gloom would that he's 
working on. 

1079
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:20,200
I mean that's going to be 
Replayable, probably just 

1080
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:24,100
because of the amount of options
that are available, that's, 

1081
01:05:24,300 --> 01:05:26,900
that's true. 
That one does have like the most

1082
01:05:26,900 --> 01:05:29,400
varied amount of options to it 
so far. 

1083
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:36,600
So you can show me the web like 
the, you know, my string Like 

1084
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,700
It's All Digital but like the 
strings connecting all the 

1085
01:05:39,700 --> 01:05:42,500
options. 
It's a, I don't know. 

1086
01:05:42,500 --> 01:05:44,900
It looks like a nebula or 
something. 

1087
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:50,300
Actually I'm going to see if I 
know this won't be great for the

1088
01:05:50,300 --> 01:05:53,700
podcast but I think I can do a 
screen share with it in a sec. 

1089
01:05:55,300 --> 01:05:59,000
So you know we mentioned this 
will make sense to you because 

1090
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,500
you read it we mentioned that's 
like a choose-your-own-adventure

1091
01:06:01,500 --> 01:06:07,300
ish type thing and in Choose 
Your Own Adventure type things 

1092
01:06:07,300 --> 01:06:11,300
you generally get the if you 
choose X go to 127, if you 

1093
01:06:11,300 --> 01:06:17,000
choose why I go to 128. 
I think such of that and so I 

1094
01:06:17,008 --> 01:06:19,700
kind of had to figure out a way 
to like, okay. 

1095
01:06:19,700 --> 01:06:25,800
So what if you agree to help 
this person back in entry number

1096
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:31,400
27 and that changes how entry 
number like 352 works. 

1097
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:38,600
So I think it brings that like 
interesting decision making home

1098
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:44,100
in a way that The other like 
yeah, there's definitely do that

1099
01:06:44,100 --> 01:06:47,900
but I think it just doesn't a 
whole new Manner and like it has

1100
01:06:47,900 --> 01:06:51,200
much longer ranging 
consequences. 

1101
01:06:52,500 --> 01:06:54,900
One of the things we introduced 
in this is companions which are 

1102
01:06:54,900 --> 01:06:58,700
basically like a fifth Person. 
You can have in your marching 

1103
01:06:58,700 --> 01:07:02,800
order that work, say, I like 
like a monster would, but 

1104
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,500
depending on what companions, 
you have different things happen

1105
01:07:05,500 --> 01:07:10,300
in different locations and like 
there's different Lauren info 

1106
01:07:10,300 --> 01:07:12,600
and different places that you 
may never get depending on the 

1107
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:14,900
decisions you make. 
So it's it's been really 

1108
01:07:14,900 --> 01:07:19,400
interesting figuring that out 
and this is oh no can screen 

1109
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:20,200
share? 
Never mind. 

1110
01:07:21,300 --> 01:07:26,800
Okay, yeah I'll give you. 
Actually I think it. 

1111
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:28,000
I don't ya should just take 
over. 

1112
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,400
Just Shores here. 
Let's see, let's let's see what 

1113
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,300
happened. 
Yeah, I think it like Otto says 

1114
01:07:32,300 --> 01:07:36,700
like don't do that. 
I just really I call it pain 

1115
01:07:36,700 --> 01:07:39,200
during my orb when I'm working 
on it because it's the program. 

1116
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:45,600
I'm using those this really cool
thing is that coming up facing a

1117
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:50,400
black ski. 
Okay so each of these dots on 

1118
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:55,700
this thing is a Dell Venturi. 
And every line going from it, 

1119
01:07:55,800 --> 01:08:00,300
are different decisions and 
paths that lead to and from 

1120
01:08:00,300 --> 01:08:02,400
there. 
So it's just really neat to kind

1121
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,800
of look at it as fashion of 
like, this is what a delve looks

1122
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,300
like if you're mapping it out. 
Wow, that's caliber. 

1123
01:08:09,500 --> 01:08:14,100
Yeah, I'm really excited about 
this one but man, even just have

1124
01:08:14,100 --> 01:08:16,899
a lot more to write and even 
when I'm done writing, the play 

1125
01:08:16,899 --> 01:08:18,899
testing is just I don't even 
know how I'm gonna go about play

1126
01:08:18,899 --> 01:08:21,600
testing because of how many 
options there are, you know. 

1127
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:25,000
Yeah. 
That's a lot of options. 

1128
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,500
I mean, especially if you have 
to like sit and check every 

1129
01:08:27,500 --> 01:08:29,600
single one, it's going to take 
you along to play test. 

1130
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,700
It is to write it. 
It's crazy, you're not wrong, 

1131
01:08:32,700 --> 01:08:34,399
that's what I'm saying. 
Like it's not even on the 

1132
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:36,300
release radar. 
It's going to be interesting 

1133
01:08:36,300 --> 01:08:38,600
awesome when it comes out, but 
it's going to be a man. 

1134
01:08:38,899 --> 01:08:42,300
Opus. 
All right, then I just retire 

1135
01:08:42,300 --> 01:08:46,300
after that one. 
I'm really happy that you did 

1136
01:08:46,300 --> 01:08:48,200
that though. 
James, because that, that will 

1137
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:53,899
make it much easier to like 
ensure that all the numbers are 

1138
01:08:53,899 --> 01:08:56,200
correct. 
I mean, with six hundred 

1139
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,700
entries, that's like a lot of 
tracking to yeah. 

1140
01:08:59,700 --> 01:09:02,899
Take care of anything with 372 
s. 

1141
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:07,100
Right. 
Exactly and you know, just to 

1142
01:09:07,100 --> 01:09:10,899
like going through Entry and 
being like, okay, this says, to 

1143
01:09:10,899 --> 01:09:14,500
go to 121 but his 121 actually 
the right stuff or that I 

1144
01:09:14,500 --> 01:09:17,300
accidentally blink twice to the 
same thing and forgot. 

1145
01:09:19,300 --> 01:09:23,399
Yeah. 
What the program is dreams, it 

1146
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:28,399
is called obsidian and my wife 
actually introduced me to it. 

1147
01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:35,300
She uses it for note-taking for 
research and so like it's, it's 

1148
01:09:35,300 --> 01:09:39,200
a really interesting note taking
program and also like I start to

1149
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:42,100
use it to DM games as well, 
because the way you can 

1150
01:09:42,100 --> 01:09:46,899
interconnect your different 
notes and whatnot, and you can 

1151
01:09:46,907 --> 01:09:49,399
just bring up various pieces of 
information on your screen 

1152
01:09:49,399 --> 01:09:52,000
altogether, like it in your 
notes, you have. 

1153
01:09:52,100 --> 01:09:55,500
And here they fight this. 
And you have the stats written 

1154
01:09:55,500 --> 01:09:57,500
out for this. 
You can like pop it up on your 

1155
01:09:57,500 --> 01:10:00,100
screen just from like your 
control document and right now 

1156
01:10:00,100 --> 01:10:04,400
that is neither here nor there 
but it's a cool tool. 

1157
01:10:04,900 --> 01:10:05,600
Yeah. 
No, yeah. 

1158
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:08,200
I friends that use OneNote for 
the same reason that you mean 

1159
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:10,000
like link. 
Within itself to like other 

1160
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:15,600
things and stuff like that. 
But that's I mean, I it's gonna 

1161
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:17,500
be I can't wait to see what that
looks like. 

1162
01:10:17,500 --> 01:10:19,500
That sounds like it's going to 
be really interesting and like 

1163
01:10:19,500 --> 01:10:23,600
you said, like even just a 
plethora of options, it feels 

1164
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:28,400
almost Like it's got almost be 
as big as the sewer and just 

1165
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:30,000
like the potential for random 
generation. 

1166
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:33,600
Especially if you saying that 
like, you know, this point here,

1167
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:37,700
if you go A or B, if you change 
all of this up here and play the

1168
01:10:37,700 --> 01:10:40,500
different way, that's sounds 
really interesting. 

1169
01:10:40,500 --> 01:10:44,800
I'm excited to see like, how how
you do that, like, how it all 

1170
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:48,600
actually ends up working 
together because that sounds 

1171
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:51,800
like a huge pain in the ass but 
also super, super great. 

1172
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:54,500
A little bit. 
Like I had to put my hair back 

1173
01:10:54,500 --> 01:11:00,300
to figure it out and what I 
settled on is like, so, you 

1174
01:11:00,300 --> 01:11:01,900
know, you're going to have to 
tell book like normal. 

1175
01:11:01,900 --> 01:11:04,100
If you make this Choice, go to 
whatever yada yada. 

1176
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:06,500
But you're also an addition to 
your character sheet, you're 

1177
01:11:06,500 --> 01:11:09,500
going to have a thing that is 
currently called a fake card 

1178
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:11,600
title and progress. 
Don't know if I'm gonna keep 

1179
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,500
that, but there's just gonna be 
a bunch of numbers on it. 

1180
01:11:14,500 --> 01:11:16,500
And if you make certain 
decisions, it's going to tell 

1181
01:11:16,500 --> 01:11:19,500
you Circle this number. 
So later on in Adel, like in an 

1182
01:11:19,500 --> 01:11:21,200
entry, a might say, it's a 
circle. 

1183
01:11:21,500 --> 01:11:25,200
Check this out over here, which 
might be one of your companions 

1184
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:29,100
if they're with you saying like,
hey, I know these things. 

1185
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:32,400
Things. 
I like the companions. 

1186
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:41,100
I have to Like it feels weird to
say I guess because like it 

1187
01:11:41,100 --> 01:11:42,600
feels a little like writing. 
I guess I am. 

1188
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,100
I just really like the writing 
in this one so far. 

1189
01:11:45,100 --> 01:11:49,000
Like it feels the closest thing 
between all them to like reading

1190
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:52,200
a novel as well as playing a 
game where the other ones feel. 

1191
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,500
Like I like I like a lot of 
writing in Onyx Tower but it's 

1192
01:11:57,500 --> 01:12:02,800
like it doesn't have, I guess 
the scope and presence that I 

1193
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:05,600
think markers going to have, I 
mean you should like your own 

1194
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:07,800
writing like when you read your 
stuff back because you just feel

1195
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:09,200
like fuck. 
Yeah, I did that like, that's 

1196
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:11,400
awesome. 
Like, that's right bragi it. 

1197
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:14,400
Like if you if you if you put 
out a game and you look back and

1198
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:25,300
be like, man, that sucks. 
Right - here, Do something like 

1199
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:29,600
15 rooms ago and then I get to a
car that says, if you did this 

1200
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:31,700
thing 15 rooms ago, do this, I'm
gonna be, like, fuck. 

1201
01:12:31,700 --> 01:12:34,600
I don't remember what the hell? 
I don't remember what I did 

1202
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:36,100
yesterday, man. 
I'm trying to remember what it 

1203
01:12:36,100 --> 01:12:39,700
is like. 
So that's such a great idea to 

1204
01:12:39,700 --> 01:12:43,800
have, like a tracker for that 
and like, even some of it, like 

1205
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:46,600
there are some locations like if
you're there, one time, 

1206
01:12:46,700 --> 01:12:49,800
something's happening. 
But if you like trigger 

1207
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:52,600
something on a fake card and go 
back, you're going to find 

1208
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:54,600
things you Applying the first 
time. 

1209
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:01,100
That the complexity involved. 
Like, I can't even, I mean more 

1210
01:13:01,100 --> 01:13:05,800
power to ya, like that's it 
sounds like a lot. 

1211
01:13:06,500 --> 01:13:09,200
Um, Switching gears, just a 
little bit here. 

1212
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:11,000
One of the questions I want to 
ask that. 

1213
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:15,900
I finally remembered was 
Indiegogo which you know, this 

1214
01:13:15,900 --> 01:13:17,500
is on right now. 
Go check it out, I'll put the 

1215
01:13:17,500 --> 01:13:21,000
links and everything. 
Um, your first project was 

1216
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,600
Kickstarter this is Indiegogo 
Indiegogo. 

1217
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:26,400
I mean, I've backed plenty of 
projects on a He go go, but 

1218
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:31,400
it's, I don't think it's as a 
well-known, I guess as 

1219
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:35,500
Kickstarter obviously, or or 
even like game found has a 

1220
01:13:35,508 --> 01:13:37,000
bunch. 
Now, what made you go with 

1221
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,900
Indiegogo as opposed to, you 
know, the kind of plethora of 

1222
01:13:40,900 --> 01:13:42,600
crowdfunding platforms are out 
there. 

1223
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:46,100
Now, they reached out to us 
trying to poach us from 

1224
01:13:46,100 --> 01:13:49,800
Kickstarter Yeah that's just 
kind of cool. 

1225
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:53,600
Yeah. 
And within like we really yeah. 

1226
01:13:53,600 --> 01:14:00,900
Well we'll try one of our 
projects on there and they met 

1227
01:14:00,900 --> 01:14:04,700
with they met with us video call
like three times or something 

1228
01:14:04,700 --> 01:14:09,800
like that before the launch. 
They followed up with us. 

1229
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:13,400
They take less money. 
Yeah. 

1230
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:17,400
They're just a nicer to yeah. 
Like yeah, they just have so 

1231
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:19,100
much. 
For support like you talk to 

1232
01:14:19,100 --> 01:14:21,200
regular like, actual people so 
much more. 

1233
01:14:23,700 --> 01:14:26,300
Like they've had me talk to like
their marketing. 

1234
01:14:26,300 --> 01:14:29,100
People, they've had me talk to, 
like, just people checking over 

1235
01:14:29,100 --> 01:14:33,200
the campaign and make sure it's 
good and like making sure stuffs

1236
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:37,000
integrated and hmm. 
And when it comes to like 

1237
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,900
Kickstarter, like kickstarter's 
to big kid on the Block for sure

1238
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:43,000
like everyone knows Kickstarter 
and in sometimes like what I'm 

1239
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:46,200
talking about this campaign, I 
still find myself saying like oh

1240
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:49,400
we're kick-starting a tour The 
kickstarter campaign because 

1241
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:51,700
it's like a Band-Aid, right? 
Like, no, it's not. 

1242
01:14:51,700 --> 01:14:53,800
He's a bandage. 
But you say Band-Aid because 

1243
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:55,500
that grinding is so in your 
brain. 

1244
01:14:57,300 --> 01:14:59,200
But they've been great. 
They've been very kind. 

1245
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:01,800
They've been very helpful. 
Like, I don't even know if real 

1246
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:03,800
people work at Kickstarter 
because I've never talked to 

1247
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:05,000
him. 
Like, I've talked to more real 

1248
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:07,300
people, that work at Facebook 
and that's saying something, you

1249
01:15:07,300 --> 01:15:10,000
know? 
Ya know, it's interesting to me,

1250
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,900
we, I mean, we so we have a 
second for long term called 

1251
01:15:12,900 --> 01:15:16,700
kick, start the podcast and it 
was all crowdfunding because 

1252
01:15:16,700 --> 01:15:19,600
like, you, Kickstarter like the 
name in it of itself, a lot of 

1253
01:15:19,608 --> 01:15:22,200
people associate crowdfunding 
with kick-starting, right? 

1254
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:28,000
But it's interesting because 
we've heard we've about a lot of

1255
01:15:28,008 --> 01:15:29,600
different platforms. 
Like everyone, pretty much. 

1256
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:32,100
Just like you said, like 
Kickstarter it exists. 

1257
01:15:32,100 --> 01:15:36,800
It is there a lot of people know
it to you use it may be through.

1258
01:15:36,900 --> 01:15:38,700
Yeah we've heard about game 
found. 

1259
01:15:38,700 --> 01:15:41,300
Don't fucking use it from every 
person we've ever talked to you 

1260
01:15:41,300 --> 01:15:43,200
that use it said stay away from 
game file. 

1261
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:47,800
So sorry that's good to know. 
Okay yeah I will give you Names 

1262
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:50,400
of people if you really want to 
talk to them if it's okay with 

1263
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:53,700
them. 
But yeah, I haven't really heard

1264
01:15:53,700 --> 01:15:56,800
a lot about any go go. 
Like I said, it's one of the 

1265
01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:58,200
smaller ones in. 
It's really interesting to hear 

1266
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,800
that they were like I'd only 
they poached you but there 

1267
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,700
seemed awesome. 
They just decide. 

1268
01:16:03,700 --> 01:16:06,700
No, the project is six hundred 
and sixty-six percent funded 

1269
01:16:06,700 --> 01:16:11,600
right now. 
I thought that was a fun puzzle 

1270
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:16,600
number shot. 
And yeah, by the way, the 

1271
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:20,100
project is Hundred and sixty-six
percent funded and you still 

1272
01:16:20,100 --> 01:16:25,300
have ten days left to go. 
And this was really a 14-day 

1273
01:16:25,300 --> 01:16:27,200
campaign to. 
Yeah. 

1274
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:30,400
I think I think we talked about 
that a little bit in on Twitter 

1275
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:31,900
as well. 
When you told me it was only 

1276
01:16:31,900 --> 01:16:33,700
going to be a two-week campaign 
and that's another thing that I 

1277
01:16:33,708 --> 01:16:36,100
hear all the time is people that
do 30-day campaigns and more of 

1278
01:16:36,100 --> 01:16:38,500
their like ripping their hair 
out by like day 18 because 

1279
01:16:38,500 --> 01:16:40,500
they're still like 12 fucking 
days left to go. 

1280
01:16:41,500 --> 01:16:43,200
You know what? 
You don't get anything in an 

1281
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:44,700
adult. 
Yeah. 

1282
01:16:44,700 --> 01:16:48,300
Like every campaign on 
Kickstarter, like never days 

1283
01:16:48,300 --> 01:16:52,300
were in the middle, like in that
like dead 15 days in, we're 

1284
01:16:52,300 --> 01:16:54,300
like, oh, we lost some money 
today. 

1285
01:16:54,300 --> 01:16:58,700
That's cool. 
Like, well, the things it gives 

1286
01:16:58,700 --> 01:17:01,800
you to give people time to just 
be like, you know, what do I 

1287
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:04,800
really need that and then 
they're like, nope, I can cancel

1288
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:06,200
that pledge. 
I do that all the time. 

1289
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:10,300
So, especially when it's like, 
well, this other things backing 

1290
01:17:10,300 --> 01:17:12,600
right now, and I got to choose 
between the two. 

1291
01:17:15,100 --> 01:17:18,200
Yeah, every campaign we've seen 
the most action, the first, and 

1292
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:22,900
last week, and the reason these 
crowdfunder things work is 

1293
01:17:22,900 --> 01:17:28,300
because like it's instant hype. 
Like there's a timer on it and 

1294
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:33,200
if I tell you like, hey if you 
don't like I don't know. 

1295
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:36,800
If you don't go to the store and
buy me a sandwich, I'm going to 

1296
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:40,100
shoot you in to toe you have 
three years. 

1297
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:41,000
Like what the hell? 
Yeah. 

1298
01:17:41,200 --> 01:17:45,300
Get it done in three years, 
whatever, you know, like, I'm 

1299
01:17:45,300 --> 01:17:47,500
not worried about my toe that 
much, like, next time I'm out, 

1300
01:17:47,500 --> 01:17:51,200
I'll get a sandwich, right? 
But not like you got 20 minutes 

1301
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,500
to get me that sandwich or say 
goodbye to that toe. 

1302
01:17:53,500 --> 01:17:57,200
Like, first off, you here, like,
why am I so shading with this 

1303
01:17:57,200 --> 01:17:59,000
fucking madman? 
But, secondly, you're getting me

1304
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:02,100
a thing. 
I mean, that was probably the 

1305
01:18:02,100 --> 01:18:04,300
most interesting way you could 
put that in allergy. 

1306
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:08,300
I don't know where that came 
from, but besides, right, to 

1307
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:12,200
shoot not toes, but I guess, It.
I mean it makes sense. 

1308
01:18:13,300 --> 01:18:16,700
And, and I can tell you the 
right there, all the writer for 

1309
01:18:16,700 --> 01:18:23,800
marching order but I would have.
So I'll take that as a 

1310
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:29,600
compliment. 
Or that? 

1311
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,000
There we go. 
Another way to say it. 

1312
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:36,200
Um, did you, are you? 
I guess the question is like, 

1313
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:38,500
with any GoGo like, they seek, 
they sounds like they're great. 

1314
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:41,400
Are you getting what you 
expected from like the campaign 

1315
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:43,000
and things like that? 
I mean because like I said, you 

1316
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:47,400
know, you had a pretty small 
funding goal for this and I took

1317
01:18:47,500 --> 01:18:49,400
didn't even take a day to get 
funded. 

1318
01:18:50,100 --> 01:18:52,500
They took an hour. 
Yeah, five minutes. 

1319
01:18:52,900 --> 01:18:54,700
Yeah. 
So it which, I mean, says 

1320
01:18:54,700 --> 01:18:57,800
something, maybe we should set 
our bar a little higher next 

1321
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:02,300
time, but I mean, it feels good 
to be funded in an hour. 

1322
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:07,000
Yeah, totally. 
And it's interesting because 

1323
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:11,100
like, you know, like if we 
compare this campaign to 

1324
01:19:11,100 --> 01:19:15,300
campaigns, we did in the past on
like Kickstarter the Kickstarter

1325
01:19:15,300 --> 01:19:21,500
campaigns absolutely brought in 
more money as I'd like As of 

1326
01:19:21,500 --> 01:19:25,300
now, right? 
But that said like, this is the 

1327
01:19:25,300 --> 01:19:29,800
lowest cost campaign. 
We've done, you know, the delves

1328
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:34,200
are like 12 bucks. like as 
opposed to like the 50 dollar 

1329
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:40,700
box say or like What's it 
called? 

1330
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:45,500
Onyx Tower, there's 18 bucks. 
So like it doesn't surprise me 

1331
01:19:45,500 --> 01:19:46,900
that. 
This is the cheapest one we've 

1332
01:19:46,900 --> 01:19:50,600
done that. 
Obviously, we're not seeing as 

1333
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:53,400
much money on it right because 
there's just not as expensive 

1334
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:59,600
but looking at it like so far 
does seem to be bringing in less

1335
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:03,300
new people but that could be for
any variety of reasons. 

1336
01:20:03,300 --> 01:20:07,600
Not necessarily and you go girl.
Like we may have just like reach

1337
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,400
everyone in our Market already, 
you know. 

1338
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:14,000
So do we got a lot of looking 
into it to figure out and part 

1339
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:16,100
of the reason? 
Like honestly part of the 

1340
01:20:16,108 --> 01:20:20,100
reason, we wanted to do this on 
Indiegogo with the quick and 

1341
01:20:20,100 --> 01:20:22,700
dirty. 
He's because because it was a 

1342
01:20:22,708 --> 01:20:26,700
cheaper product and it just 
wasn't as much of a risk to us, 

1343
01:20:26,700 --> 01:20:28,400
to try it out and see how it 
goes. 

1344
01:20:28,500 --> 01:20:33,200
You know, so we have some number
crunching to do. 

1345
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:38,500
But one thing about Indiegogo 
that we have liked is the 

1346
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:45,000
there's a pre-launch and then 
there's a, like a post kind of 

1347
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:54,000
launch so you can sign up for to
be notified but that also gives 

1348
01:20:54,000 --> 01:21:02,200
us their email that integrates 
into our email list and then 

1349
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:08,000
afterwards they can pre-order or
essentially, Still pledge after 

1350
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:12,700
the launch is over, or after the
campaign is over, then I split 

1351
01:21:12,700 --> 01:21:15,900
that right. 
James I don't know if I can 

1352
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:18,500
stand it. 
I think I was like a few maybe 

1353
01:21:18,500 --> 01:21:21,400
clarifications on it, but like, 
I think he said it right? 

1354
01:21:22,700 --> 01:21:25,600
Like, when you, when you do a 
campaign on Kickstarter and you 

1355
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:27,700
have you ever like pre sign up 
thing, right? 

1356
01:21:27,700 --> 01:21:30,000
Like you have the like just 
title card up there. 

1357
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,300
People can sign up to get know 
when it gets launched. 

1358
01:21:32,700 --> 01:21:34,800
Like basically when they enter 
their info in there, that goes 

1359
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:36,300
to Kickstarter and Kickstarter 
sent. 

1360
01:21:36,300 --> 01:21:41,000
Something I didn't probation 
whereas an Indiegogo it goes 

1361
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:43,800
twice and it falls on us to give
them that information but also 

1362
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:47,300
that means we get to give him 
Information, like how we want to

1363
01:21:47,300 --> 01:21:51,700
like we get to like, you know, 
an email from Kickstarter being 

1364
01:21:51,700 --> 01:21:56,100
like, hey, this product product 
launch doesn't contain the like,

1365
01:21:56,500 --> 01:21:59,000
the language and feel Rock, 
Bottom, like emails. 

1366
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:00,400
Like we can craft and things 
like that. 

1367
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:03,700
So that's kind of cool and 
Indiegogo does hat. 

1368
01:22:03,700 --> 01:22:05,800
So yeah. 
And like we can let these people

1369
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:08,000
know about future marching order
stuff afterwards. 

1370
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:11,800
Now, as well, and Indiegogo does
have an option where like after 

1371
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:14,500
your funded and your campaigns 
over you can continue take 

1372
01:22:14,500 --> 01:22:15,900
pre-orders. 
Through them. 

1373
01:22:16,700 --> 01:22:19,000
Like we will not end up using 
that because we just do that on 

1374
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:20,700
our website. 
But it's a cool thing for 

1375
01:22:20,700 --> 01:22:24,400
creators that are like thinking 
about like what where do I want 

1376
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:26,800
to do this at? 
Because while you're working on 

1377
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:28,900
it, and while you're like 
getting it printed, you can 

1378
01:22:28,900 --> 01:22:32,200
still have orders coming in 
without having to have that 

1379
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:34,400
infrastructure setup yourself, 
which is kind of a big thing 

1380
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:38,600
because that's a lot to do when 
you're starting out, and I just 

1381
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:41,400
not possible on Kickstarter, 
right? 

1382
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:42,600
Yeah, it's over. 
It's done. 

1383
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:44,500
It's done. 
Well, there's also something to 

1384
01:22:44,500 --> 01:22:46,500
be said, Just about even if it 
brings in like little bit less 

1385
01:22:46,500 --> 01:22:49,300
money, the fact that they take 
less money from you but also 

1386
01:22:49,300 --> 01:22:53,500
like that they're just cool like
and they make it like an easier 

1387
01:22:53,900 --> 01:22:56,700
kind of process for you. 
Is something to be said to, you 

1388
01:22:56,700 --> 01:22:59,500
know, like I mean I'm sure 
Kickstarter was not the way they

1389
01:22:59,500 --> 01:23:01,500
are. 
Now when they first started, 

1390
01:23:01,500 --> 01:23:03,700
they were probably a lot more 
responsive and things like that 

1391
01:23:03,700 --> 01:23:06,500
and eventually, you know, you 
get big enough, you can. 

1392
01:23:06,700 --> 01:23:07,800
Yeah, you can stop giving a 
shit. 

1393
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,100
People are going to use your 
service anyway, but there's 

1394
01:23:10,100 --> 01:23:12,000
something to be said about, 
like, working with like good 

1395
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:14,700
people, you know, and feeling 
good about the project that you 

1396
01:23:14,900 --> 01:23:17,000
Putting out instead of having to
fight through the infrastructure

1397
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:18,800
the entire time, they're a 
project and afterwards. 

1398
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:23,700
So yeah, like I like the 
underdog as is you know and just

1399
01:23:23,700 --> 01:23:26,700
like tacos like the week leading
up to the launch. 

1400
01:23:26,700 --> 01:23:30,800
I talked to when they're marking
people at least twice who had 

1401
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:34,900
great advice and was also like 
did what they could to like they

1402
01:23:34,900 --> 01:23:37,100
got our project on it. 
Front page of, didn't he go? 

1403
01:23:37,100 --> 01:23:39,600
Go you know, they got it to 
whatever specialist. 

1404
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:42,400
They could like it felt like 
they were rooting for us. 

1405
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:46,500
And on Kickstarter, it feels 
like they're rooting for you 

1406
01:23:47,100 --> 01:23:49,700
kind of just because they want 
you to make more money because 

1407
01:23:49,700 --> 01:23:51,700
they get more money. 
But they don't tell you that 

1408
01:23:51,700 --> 01:23:55,700
like, they have enough people 
that if you fail, they'll make 

1409
01:23:55,700 --> 01:23:57,600
it a elsewhere. 
But like Indiegogo, it really 

1410
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:03,500
felt like they were part of the 
team, you know, they cared, you 

1411
01:24:03,500 --> 01:24:06,200
know, like they cared like I 
expect a Christmas gift from 

1412
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:08,800
them this year, you know, at 
least a card. 

1413
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:13,300
So are you thinking? 
I mean you guys are going to 

1414
01:24:13,300 --> 01:24:16,500
number crunch, you know this not
really but, you know, it's a 

1415
01:24:16,500 --> 01:24:19,300
possibility for future projects,
even if it's some of the smaller

1416
01:24:19,300 --> 01:24:22,200
ones in the future to just 
because the process was like 

1417
01:24:22,500 --> 01:24:25,300
sounds like better than 
Kickstarter at least easier or 

1418
01:24:25,300 --> 01:24:29,500
nicer the process. 
It was 100% better for sure. 

1419
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:35,500
I thought this percentage is 
that we like percentage of 

1420
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:43,300
pledges that we got through 
Indiegogo Was probably about the

1421
01:24:43,300 --> 01:24:46,000
same as Kickstarter wasn't James
like the percentage. 

1422
01:24:46,900 --> 01:24:51,100
Yeah. 
And I figure that's like That's 

1423
01:24:51,100 --> 01:24:54,000
a good metric to look at like, 
how many people did we bring in 

1424
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:55,200
versus? 
How many people did this 

1425
01:24:55,200 --> 01:25:00,800
platform bringing? 
Because at this point, like, I 

1426
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:03,000
love this. 
Like we have marching order 

1427
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:05,100
bands. 
You know, like we have the 

1428
01:25:05,100 --> 01:25:07,700
marching order, Facebook group, 
those people are loving it and 

1429
01:25:07,700 --> 01:25:10,900
so like they're going to when we
were doing this, we knew we were

1430
01:25:10,900 --> 01:25:12,500
going to bring a lot of people 
with us. 

1431
01:25:14,100 --> 01:25:17,200
So like yeah the metric of like 
how many people did we bring in 

1432
01:25:17,300 --> 01:25:19,700
persons? 
How many came from Being on this

1433
01:25:19,700 --> 01:25:23,300
platform is an important one 
because one of the other things,

1434
01:25:23,300 --> 01:25:25,000
honestly, we thought about doing
in a future. 

1435
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:30,000
Like we could proud fungus 
ourselves on our own site, but 

1436
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:33,100
then we just miss out on, like, 
whatever an individual platform 

1437
01:25:33,100 --> 01:25:36,100
might bring in so softly, we 
won't do in the future. 

1438
01:25:36,100 --> 01:25:37,800
It's an option. 
We talked about, like, we'll 

1439
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:41,700
just for exploring will feel 
things out, right? 

1440
01:25:41,700 --> 01:25:45,500
I think if we get enough 
audience that we can, you know, 

1441
01:25:45,500 --> 01:25:49,200
guarantee a certain amount of 
revenue from our own site then. 

1442
01:25:49,300 --> 01:25:54,500
And it would be more viable. 
But right now these platforms 

1443
01:25:54,500 --> 01:25:58,900
are are definitely helping us. 
Yeah, they're helping more than 

1444
01:25:58,900 --> 01:26:05,500
they're hindering for sure. 
Switching gears again real quick

1445
01:26:05,500 --> 01:26:08,500
because this is a question I 
think I mean to ask all the time

1446
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:11,300
and forget 100% of the time. 
And I'm going to remember at 

1447
01:26:11,308 --> 01:26:15,700
this time, mechanically because 
like I said, a hunter and I are 

1448
01:26:15,700 --> 01:26:17,600
going to, I'm going to sleep 
soon. 

1449
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:22,700
And then, when I wake up Hunter 
and I are going to review this 

1450
01:26:22,700 --> 01:26:24,500
book, I think we're just going 
to go through the the player's 

1451
01:26:24,500 --> 01:26:30,600
handbook. 
Are there any easy to miss rules

1452
01:26:30,900 --> 01:26:32,600
that? 
That if someone's reading it for

1453
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:36,000
the first time, you'd be like, 
actually, yeah, this one I 

1454
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:39,100
could, I could, you know, give 
you a little tip on that one. 

1455
01:26:42,700 --> 01:26:46,200
There's there's one that I comes
to mind. 

1456
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:48,400
Yeah, there's one that 
definitely comes to mind that I 

1457
01:26:48,407 --> 01:26:51,500
will like every few months Post 
in the Facebook group. 

1458
01:26:51,500 --> 01:26:55,400
So new players can see it in 
just like hey this is really 

1459
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:56,800
important. 
I think I know. 

1460
01:26:57,200 --> 01:26:58,600
Yeah. 
Do you want to take it from 

1461
01:26:58,600 --> 01:26:58,900
here? 
Brad. 

1462
01:26:58,900 --> 01:27:02,400
You do know I do. 
Yeah, you totally know. 

1463
01:27:02,700 --> 01:27:08,200
Yeah, 100% points can be used to
re-roll any role any role 

1464
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:12,000
whatsoever? 
I monsters attack your Escape 

1465
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:13,400
roll. 
Whatever. 

1466
01:27:13,500 --> 01:27:20,700
It doesn't matter, one point of 
luck re roll that dice Like the 

1467
01:27:20,708 --> 01:27:25,500
game's chaotic feeling which is 
on purpose, but to a certain 

1468
01:27:25,500 --> 01:27:28,600
extent like it can feel a little
swinging when you're rolling, a 

1469
01:27:28,608 --> 01:27:32,200
six-sided Dice and you roll one 
and you roll one more roll one. 

1470
01:27:32,500 --> 01:27:35,300
And what points was kind of the 
way to like mitigate that I'm a 

1471
01:27:35,308 --> 01:27:40,200
little bit nervous because it's 
it is like any role any role at 

1472
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:43,000
all. 
You can redo like if a monster 

1473
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:45,200
rolls it's like worse bullshit 
and you're like, this has a 

1474
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:47,900
possibility of killing every 
single Rogue right now. 

1475
01:27:48,700 --> 01:27:50,300
Yeah, anyone have a lot Point 
left. 

1476
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:53,700
Yeah, and they might take the 
entire parties. 

1477
01:27:53,700 --> 01:27:57,800
Roll luck points. 
Scotty has sometimes you play 

1478
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:04,800
testing, but that's just it, 
like, it's a, it's a, it's an 

1479
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,400
ugly part of the resource 
management as well, right? 

1480
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:12,400
Like, oh, you're getting low on 
health, that means you might die

1481
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:14,100
soon. 
Oh, you're getting low on luck. 

1482
01:28:14,100 --> 01:28:16,700
You're going to run out of your 
ability to mitigate the really 

1483
01:28:16,700 --> 01:28:21,600
bad shit happening. 
So just like torches and like 

1484
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:24,500
Anti-Venom and bandages. 
You're like, okay, how much luck

1485
01:28:24,500 --> 01:28:26,900
do we have left? 
We want to keep going, you know.

1486
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:32,200
Yeah. 
Um can you and just to clarify 

1487
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:37,700
poor go through the last night. 
Then can you luck a luck like 

1488
01:28:37,700 --> 01:28:39,600
can you just keep being like 
nah. 

1489
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:41,500
I don't like that role. 
Then be like, alright, this out.

1490
01:28:41,500 --> 01:28:44,500
Like now I don't like that role 
and just like use them like it 

1491
01:28:44,500 --> 01:28:46,900
10 lakh if you want all on one. 
Yeah. 

1492
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:52,100
You can use it all up. 
Yeah, because somebody has just 

1493
01:28:52,100 --> 01:28:55,500
keeps getting worse and worse. 
Oh, man. 

1494
01:28:55,500 --> 01:28:59,200
Like, finally, we got one little
left and it's like, oh, they 

1495
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:00,600
rolled a one. 
Thank God. 

1496
01:29:01,100 --> 01:29:04,300
When we play tested protecting 
surg Rumford, what are the quick

1497
01:29:04,300 --> 01:29:05,400
and dirty is currently available
on. 

1498
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:11,400
Indiegogo, we had a scenario 
where like Yeah, I don't give 

1499
01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:14,000
too much away but there is like 
a horrible trap going off. 

1500
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:16,900
And like we knew if we didn't 
get rid of, it was gonna kill us

1501
01:29:16,900 --> 01:29:19,400
all. 
When we spent all like, so much 

1502
01:29:19,400 --> 01:29:22,100
luck, we must have rolled like 
five or six times and it wasn't 

1503
01:29:22,100 --> 01:29:26,800
that hard like Now, if 
probability line of have a 

1504
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:31,100
three, all right. 
Well, with three or something we

1505
01:29:31,100 --> 01:29:33,900
only had one person. 
Get out of that one alive. 

1506
01:29:33,900 --> 01:29:36,900
Everyone else died. 
It was a messy messy situation. 

1507
01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:40,100
Interesting. 
All right. 

1508
01:29:40,100 --> 01:29:44,100
Well so I did take a note. 
So when we're going through the 

1509
01:29:44,100 --> 01:29:45,700
game tonight, we get to that 
point. 

1510
01:29:45,700 --> 01:29:49,700
We will be able to tell people, 
hey, directly from the writers. 

1511
01:29:50,500 --> 01:29:56,300
This is don't forget this. 
And I wish there's there's so 

1512
01:29:56,300 --> 01:29:58,600
many games from like fuck. 
I wish I would have asked that 

1513
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:03,000
but I remembered this time and 
maybe I'll remember next time. 

1514
01:30:03,300 --> 01:30:11,800
Oh, I'll say um, And it really 
doesn't matter but qualities are

1515
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:15,700
generally a six. 
Like, six is the good roll ones 

1516
01:30:15,700 --> 01:30:18,600
the bad roll. 
So use your flaws at one 

1517
01:30:19,200 --> 01:30:21,900
qualities at six and that's your
bullshit. 

1518
01:30:22,900 --> 01:30:26,100
Yeah, we've seen some people on 
playthroughs, like, kind of do 

1519
01:30:26,100 --> 01:30:27,800
the opposite when they're 
setting up their ball days. 

1520
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:30,600
It works the same either way. 
But, yeah, I think just 

1521
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:33,600
bookkeeping wise, it's easier to
be like, six is good one. 

1522
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:38,800
Is that right? 
And this is mentioned a few 

1523
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:42,300
times throughout the book 
because I can understand how 

1524
01:30:42,300 --> 01:30:47,400
people would want to do the 
opposite, but I've seen people 

1525
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:50,600
still do the opposite conditions
in cooldowns. 

1526
01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:53,500
Don't reset between encounters. 
So if you have a condition 

1527
01:30:53,500 --> 01:30:56,800
that's going on, it stays till 
the next encounter. 

1528
01:30:56,800 --> 01:31:00,400
If you have a power, you used in
your cooldown on it isn't kick 

1529
01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:04,300
off yet, it continues to the 
next encounter and stays where 

1530
01:31:04,300 --> 01:31:06,900
it's at. 
Yeah, you I mean that's written.

1531
01:31:07,100 --> 01:31:09,500
Probably what? 
At least three or four times 

1532
01:31:09,500 --> 01:31:11,400
throughout the book in like its 
own space. 

1533
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:16,500
Enjoyable, ladders. 
Yeah. 

1534
01:31:16,500 --> 01:31:19,900
You can't really do more than 
just get it its own page and big

1535
01:31:19,900 --> 01:31:22,400
red. 
I feel like, that's one 

1536
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:24,300
certainly pretty hard to miss. 
Yeah. 

1537
01:31:24,500 --> 01:31:26,700
All right. 
And that's like a suspension, a 

1538
01:31:26,700 --> 01:31:30,400
reality but, you know, it's a 
game, right? 

1539
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:33,300
I mean kind of, but if you're 
thinking like you go from one 

1540
01:31:33,300 --> 01:31:35,300
room to the next room, it's not 
like you're suddenly just gonna 

1541
01:31:35,300 --> 01:31:36,700
be like cured. 
Two fucking everything. 

1542
01:31:36,700 --> 01:31:39,400
Like in the, you know, one 
minute takes to get to the next 

1543
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:41,700
room but I mean, why do you 
talked about? 

1544
01:31:41,700 --> 01:31:44,100
Like, there's no reason not to 
gamify a game. 

1545
01:31:44,300 --> 01:31:46,900
It's a game for a reason and you
get a fun with the game. 

1546
01:31:47,300 --> 01:31:50,200
And like you said, especially 
with, I mean, with the early 

1547
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:55,000
marching order stuff, it does 
feel a lot more. 

1548
01:31:56,300 --> 01:31:59,800
Like in a more mechanic focused 
and you were talking about like 

1549
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:02,300
your later, delves like having 
more lore and more Choice 

1550
01:32:02,300 --> 01:32:05,600
options and really expanding it 
into a little bit more. 

1551
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:09,600
But in the early stuff, like you
said, there's like a, the delves

1552
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:12,000
kind of feel like, exercising 
them in the mechanics, kind of 

1553
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:15,300
going through. 
So it makes it makes sense. 

1554
01:32:16,300 --> 01:32:18,800
That would feel that way at that
point. 

1555
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:22,800
But I'm really like I said, 
excited to see like the sewers 

1556
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:25,100
and the other thing you were 
talking about the evolution of 

1557
01:32:25,100 --> 01:32:28,600
the game going. 
Word post quick and dirty as it 

1558
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:32,200
sounds like there's a lot of 
awesome expansive stuff in the 

1559
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:34,500
works. 
And it also sounds like there's 

1560
01:32:34,500 --> 01:32:38,100
not really like an IND insight 
for marching order anytime soon.

1561
01:32:38,100 --> 01:32:43,000
Are you guys gonna is that until
until, you know, it kick it. 

1562
01:32:43,000 --> 01:32:45,300
Like we're just marching order 
till till the end. 

1563
01:32:46,100 --> 01:32:49,800
Yeah, I mean, if watching find 
it, we're going to keep making 

1564
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:52,100
it, you know, like I think I 
mentioned this like every 

1565
01:32:52,100 --> 01:32:56,700
crowdfunding campaign redo the 
best part about Exceeding is it 

1566
01:32:56,700 --> 01:32:58,900
means I get to keep doing it. 
Right? 

1567
01:32:58,900 --> 01:33:00,900
And like now we've that love 
this. 

1568
01:33:01,500 --> 01:33:02,900
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1569
01:33:02,900 --> 01:33:05,500
We have a blast, making it, we 
have a blast, like, playing it 

1570
01:33:05,500 --> 01:33:07,700
like the play testing. 
Sessions are always great like 

1571
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:13,600
provided that were, like, not 
spending tons of time on 

1572
01:33:13,608 --> 01:33:15,100
something. 
No one ever sees like. 

1573
01:33:15,300 --> 01:33:19,400
I keep doing it, right? 
I mean somebody gives us a 

1574
01:33:19,400 --> 01:33:22,900
Cookie like we're good, right? 
It just felt were pretty at the 

1575
01:33:22,900 --> 01:33:27,800
very least we'll keep going. 
I mean it's that being said, 

1576
01:33:28,500 --> 01:33:31,900
that being said, we've also 
discussed, you know, in the 

1577
01:33:31,907 --> 01:33:36,100
future, putting different skins 
on it, like we could do it, you 

1578
01:33:36,100 --> 01:33:40,600
know, space Chandra we could do,
you know a kid's version 

1579
01:33:41,700 --> 01:33:45,500
Western? 
I think I take kids version 

1580
01:33:45,500 --> 01:33:51,500
would be, would be interesting a
very desolate versiv. 

1581
01:33:51,500 --> 01:33:53,800
Yeah. 
Subversive of the original tone,

1582
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:58,000
I think complete. 
It will still have its humor. 

1583
01:33:58,100 --> 01:34:09,700
You know, 
space sounds great. 

1584
01:34:09,700 --> 01:34:13,700
Like I love a lot of these games
are come out there like grungy 

1585
01:34:13,700 --> 01:34:15,000
space. 
You know what I mean? 

1586
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:19,200
Like not like super sci-fi. 
All lasers and everything looks 

1587
01:34:19,200 --> 01:34:22,400
great. 
It's more like like technology. 

1588
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:25,000
Like we got in space, doesn't 
mean that shit's not. 

1589
01:34:25,100 --> 01:34:28,200
It out and like super crappy 
like you have like I mean the 

1590
01:34:28,200 --> 01:34:31,300
elite is like awesome spaceships
and you guys got stuff you have 

1591
01:34:31,300 --> 01:34:35,000
to stick together with glue to 
keep the the void out. 

1592
01:34:35,500 --> 01:34:38,300
I could easily see marching 
order to fit again to like, 

1593
01:34:38,300 --> 01:34:42,800
grungy spaced elves and doing, 
like almost like Salvage Mission

1594
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:44,700
since, like, bigger ships and 
stuff like that. 

1595
01:34:44,700 --> 01:34:46,400
And haven't felt like that. 
That'd be awesome. 

1596
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:51,100
Yeah. 
Mustafa's will probably still be

1597
01:34:51,100 --> 01:34:53,100
artist. 
So it'll still have that. 

1598
01:34:53,100 --> 01:34:54,500
Yeah, I'm looking at you. 
I'm Lourdes. 

1599
01:34:54,500 --> 01:34:58,100
It works. 
Yeah, I mean right there. 

1600
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:01,600
So like the only thing that's 
kept me from working on this 

1601
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:04,100
since I'm working on too many 
other things right now. 

1602
01:35:04,100 --> 01:35:08,800
But I do have some definitive 
ideas about a cyberpunk version 

1603
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:13,100
and the changes I want to make 
between the two and it would be 

1604
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:17,400
crunchy and subversive of shape.
Yeah. 

1605
01:35:17,400 --> 01:35:20,200
I mean this feels like it would 
definitely lean into like, more 

1606
01:35:20,200 --> 01:35:24,100
like the cyborg style of of 
cyberpunk. 

1607
01:35:24,100 --> 01:35:28,100
The more kind of like grungy 
esoteric e kind of snow board 

1608
01:35:28,100 --> 01:35:31,700
baby. 
Yeah, cops are never your 

1609
01:35:31,700 --> 01:35:33,600
friends. 
There you go. 

1610
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:37,300
I can't look at the book of 
man's but yeah, I mean same like

1611
01:35:37,500 --> 01:35:41,300
I can't wait the role I think I 
mean if I think of all the 

1612
01:35:41,300 --> 01:35:45,000
genres that it could be, I think
those two feel really really 

1613
01:35:45,000 --> 01:35:46,900
like just Prime for marching 
orders. 

1614
01:35:47,100 --> 01:35:51,600
As you know, technology always 
gives you that underbelly of 

1615
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:55,200
broken technology that just 
feels, you know, roguish and 

1616
01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:56,700
grungy. 
And it feels like marching 

1617
01:35:56,700 --> 01:35:58,700
order, just as the Lord sits 
now. 

1618
01:35:58,700 --> 01:36:00,700
I mean, cause you could take the
mechanics and make this as 

1619
01:36:00,700 --> 01:36:05,000
highbrow as you wanted to. 
But yeah, there's nothing 

1620
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:09,800
stopping us from having people 
writing on Pegasus sand knights 

1621
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:14,700
in shining armor and Paladin's, 
but other than our own sense of 

1622
01:36:14,700 --> 01:36:17,400
Aesthetics, I say, like, Daddy, 
You know, 

1623
01:36:28,000 --> 01:36:31,800
Vibe the vibe, The Narrative, 
the writing and stuff like that.

1624
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:35,400
Like is such such a fun part of 
the game. 

1625
01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:38,200
Like I said, if you strip this 
down to Justin SRD, like it's 

1626
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:39,900
mechanically, it's really 
interesting. 

1627
01:36:39,900 --> 01:36:41,900
Like I'm super excited to dig 
through it tonight. 

1628
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:45,500
But the, the writing, the vibe, 
the art, everything you guys, 

1629
01:36:45,500 --> 01:36:48,500
put together all it. 
Is like a complete package and 

1630
01:36:48,500 --> 01:36:51,300
we've looked at games before 
where it's like, this is really 

1631
01:36:51,300 --> 01:36:53,200
good, but it could use this, or 
this is this. 

1632
01:36:53,200 --> 01:36:55,400
We really love this part, but it
can tweak this a little bit. 

1633
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:58,100
I really want two things. 
I really like about, this is the

1634
01:36:58,100 --> 01:36:59,900
cohesiveness of like all the 
aspects. 

1635
01:36:59,900 --> 01:37:02,200
Like, the art really fits the 
narrative really fits the 

1636
01:37:02,200 --> 01:37:05,300
mechanics, really fits the way, 
you guys Incorporated the names 

1637
01:37:05,300 --> 01:37:09,500
and everything like that. 
It feels incredible. 

1638
01:37:09,500 --> 01:37:12,500
Incredibly well-rounded as what 
it's trying to do. 

1639
01:37:13,100 --> 01:37:15,000
Thank you. 
That's really kind of you to say

1640
01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:19,700
and, you know, taking that back 
to what you're asking earlier 

1641
01:37:19,700 --> 01:37:21,900
about Mustafa like, no, we 
couldn't imagine anyone else 

1642
01:37:21,900 --> 01:37:25,200
doing it because his 
illustrations feels much of a 

1643
01:37:25,208 --> 01:37:29,800
part of marching order as 
cooldown Dyess and Brad's layout

1644
01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:35,800
and like, yea, the rioting, like
it just It doesn't feel like we 

1645
01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:38,100
could change any of those 
elements and still have what we 

1646
01:37:38,100 --> 01:37:39,900
have. 
Right? 

1647
01:37:40,300 --> 01:37:42,800
But you didn't mention an SRD 
and I do want to mention. 

1648
01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:46,000
We have an open game license. 
So if anyone is feeling frisky 

1649
01:37:46,300 --> 01:37:49,700
and wants to like make their own
thing based off of it or like 

1650
01:37:49,700 --> 01:37:52,900
more Dells or anything like 
please go for it. 

1651
01:37:52,900 --> 01:37:56,100
Like we we want, find are gonna 
see that in the world. 

1652
01:37:56,400 --> 01:38:00,100
Yeah, you can, you can find our 
license on our website. 

1653
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:01,100
Oh yeah. 
No. 

1654
01:38:01,100 --> 01:38:05,400
I thought very absolutely right 
on and that not Like the points 

1655
01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:06,800
matter. 
I mean, it's whatever. 

1656
01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:10,600
But when we do our value score, 
like the other options for 

1657
01:38:10,600 --> 01:38:13,100
third-party licenses or 
definitely factored into that, 

1658
01:38:13,100 --> 01:38:17,000
the, the option for more is, is 
fantastic. 

1659
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:19,400
You know, addition to like the 
value in the bang for the buck 

1660
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:22,200
for the game that like if you 
did run out of delves there 

1661
01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:25,300
could be other people making do 
so there's always an option to 

1662
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:27,600
have more. 
So it's really fantastic and I 

1663
01:38:27,608 --> 01:38:31,400
really love that like a lot of 
more Indie creators and all the 

1664
01:38:31,400 --> 01:38:34,900
people in seeing are realizing 
that like the more you let, Our 

1665
01:38:34,900 --> 01:38:38,400
community play with your game 
more than just like what you 

1666
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:41,400
make but also let them make 
stuff to the bigger, the game 

1667
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:42,900
can get in the tide of your 
community can get. 

1668
01:38:42,900 --> 01:38:45,100
I mean, you can literally just 
look at Mark Morgan Mothership 

1669
01:38:45,100 --> 01:38:47,700
to see how they feel and blew up
God. 

1670
01:38:47,700 --> 01:38:51,400
So much that specifically 
because, you know, we're put out

1671
01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:53,300
the The Merc board cult and 
allowed. 

1672
01:38:53,300 --> 01:38:55,300
All these people to make some 
stuff and support it and 

1673
01:38:55,300 --> 01:38:58,400
Mothership, what they did, you 
know, especially when you know, 

1674
01:38:58,400 --> 01:39:01,100
they were dropping one e and 
just literally in the background

1675
01:39:01,100 --> 01:39:02,500
saying, like, here's the rules, 
do this? 

1676
01:39:02,500 --> 01:39:03,600
Do this. 
Do this in building the 

1677
01:39:03,600 --> 01:39:06,300
community. 
You know, the more you support 

1678
01:39:06,300 --> 01:39:08,900
the community and then give them
the options to build an IT. 

1679
01:39:09,100 --> 01:39:10,800
The bigger the community is 
going to be and it's really 

1680
01:39:10,800 --> 01:39:12,300
fantastic. 
That you guys put out a 

1681
01:39:12,308 --> 01:39:15,100
third-party license and that a 
lot of creators are leaning that

1682
01:39:15,100 --> 01:39:18,000
way. 
So yeah, yeah. 

1683
01:39:18,200 --> 01:39:20,400
All the reasons you just said, 
it's right. 

1684
01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:23,800
It's all we just want to keep 
doing marching owner and if 

1685
01:39:24,300 --> 01:39:28,400
other people are doing it and 
creating, you know, a demand for

1686
01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:31,300
it, like why would we have a 
problem with that, you know? 

1687
01:39:32,500 --> 01:39:35,000
Plus we were I'd like to see 
what other people put together, 

1688
01:39:35,800 --> 01:39:38,200
right? 
I would love to see how someone 

1689
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:41,000
yeah seriously. 
I'd love to see how someone 

1690
01:39:41,000 --> 01:39:44,300
takes this and what their take 
on it is because like you know 

1691
01:39:45,100 --> 01:39:49,000
we created it but our our 
thinking on it is still like 

1692
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:51,200
staring down a hallway. 
You know what I mean? 

1693
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:53,600
Like to us like these mechanics 
do these things. 

1694
01:39:53,700 --> 01:39:56,400
Like I'd love to see someone 
just like, take some duct tape 

1695
01:39:56,400 --> 01:40:01,000
and a hammer to it and be like, 
okay, cool, what if The emerging

1696
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:05,600
water heck, yeah, people in 
putting together a lot of like 

1697
01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:12,000
table space items. 
Like you know, we have plans to 

1698
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:16,100
make them play mat in the future
so you can keep track of your 

1699
01:40:17,100 --> 01:40:22,100
conditions in labview. 
There's a, you know, for our 

1700
01:40:22,100 --> 01:40:26,900
next Edition like I would love 
to see more feed not feedback. 

1701
01:40:26,900 --> 01:40:31,500
But like you said James like The
stuff that other people can come

1702
01:40:31,500 --> 01:40:36,000
up with that. 
We wouldn't have and maybe even 

1703
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:37,900
incorporate that into the next 
Edition, you know? 

1704
01:40:39,100 --> 01:40:42,000
And yeah well it's interesting 
you mentioned like the play mat 

1705
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:46,300
and stuff because like one of 
the areas we have gotten like a 

1706
01:40:46,700 --> 01:40:48,800
good amount of fan. 
Innovation is like, okay how do 

1707
01:40:48,800 --> 01:40:52,600
I set up my table space, right? 
Hot, which is like what birth 

1708
01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:54,700
the battle sheets and things 
like that. 

1709
01:40:54,700 --> 01:40:59,300
And so like just the Facebook 
group. 

1710
01:40:59,900 --> 01:41:03,300
One of the gents is like he does
a lot of like custom game 

1711
01:41:03,300 --> 01:41:09,800
crafting and Pedro Wayne and 
it's it's just neat to see. 

1712
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:17,000
Like he has a concept of table 
footprint that we don't, you 

1713
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:21,000
know, from his continually like 
crafting things for games and 

1714
01:41:21,200 --> 01:41:24,800
setting it up to play. 
And so it's just like need to 

1715
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:27,500
see how that evolved in. 
Like it's just another aspect, 

1716
01:41:27,500 --> 01:41:30,100
it's a real thing. 
You don't think like Okay, 

1717
01:41:30,300 --> 01:41:32,100
you're making a game and you 
have to figure out like, 

1718
01:41:32,100 --> 01:41:33,900
especially game like this, you 
have to figure out what it looks

1719
01:41:33,900 --> 01:41:38,500
like on the table and we didn't 
as much woman. 

1720
01:41:38,500 --> 01:41:41,500
Ate it honestly. 
But seeing what fans have done 

1721
01:41:41,500 --> 01:41:44,400
to innovate in that area like 
makes us think about that. 

1722
01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:48,100
Like the brain part of playing 
is all there but what is the 

1723
01:41:48,100 --> 01:41:50,300
physical part feel like you 
know? 

1724
01:41:51,500 --> 01:41:54,600
Wow. 
Have you guys had a lot of 

1725
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:59,300
people create had delves or 
anything like that, anything 

1726
01:41:59,300 --> 01:42:02,400
more than like, kind of small 
pieces or, you know, these 

1727
01:42:02,400 --> 01:42:05,500
Innovations. 
Are you talking about Not yet. 

1728
01:42:08,700 --> 01:42:13,000
Wonderful sisters, created the 
rat catcher for us. 

1729
01:42:13,400 --> 01:42:15,500
That is true. 
I'll be in the sewers far, 

1730
01:42:15,900 --> 01:42:21,000
right? 
As far as any delves know, we'd 

1731
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:23,600
love to see it. 
I mean, it does feel a little 

1732
01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:28,400
bit. 
Um, what I'm trying to say for 

1733
01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:31,600
it. 
Like, the delves are very much 

1734
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:34,300
like, like kind of your brain 
coming out. 

1735
01:42:34,300 --> 01:42:37,700
I like into the into the thing. 
Like, I think a lot of you. 

1736
01:42:37,700 --> 01:42:40,400
I mean, if you look at drug RPG 
and all that kind of stuff, 90% 

1737
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:44,000
of it is like items or extra 
classes or stuff like that. 

1738
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:46,400
Like, you know, a lot of people,
your some people put out 

1739
01:42:46,600 --> 01:42:52,300
Adventures go to bed but I think
it's a lot easier to create 

1740
01:42:52,300 --> 01:42:56,400
something that's generally just 
story based then something like 

1741
01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:59,200
the Dells because the devs are 
so they have that kind of like 

1742
01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:00,500
Choose Your Own Adventure. 
Enter aspect. 

1743
01:43:00,500 --> 01:43:02,800
Like if you do this and that it 
kind of feels a little bit. 

1744
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:04,800
I don't know why the words not 
coming to me, but there's a 

1745
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:08,400
sense of like I think it feels 
like it would be a lot harder 

1746
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:12,400
like like it's a little bit less
approachable that feels like 

1747
01:43:12,400 --> 01:43:16,300
right off the bat, to just be 
like, okay, let me You know, do 

1748
01:43:16,300 --> 01:43:18,700
this kind of Choose Your Own 
Adventure style room by room 

1749
01:43:18,700 --> 01:43:20,500
thing. 
Versus just write a narrative 

1750
01:43:20,500 --> 01:43:23,300
and then you know, get my 
players, your order. 

1751
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:26,300
Yeah. 
I mean that's actually like 

1752
01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:31,400
that's super good to hear 
honestly because, you know like 

1753
01:43:32,100 --> 01:43:36,100
it's weird when you make a thing
because you made the thing and 

1754
01:43:36,700 --> 01:43:39,800
like that's it goes back to like
trying to figure out the tagline

1755
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:43,300
for the thing. 
Like right, it's hard to see it 

1756
01:43:43,300 --> 01:43:46,000
with eyes that aren't your own. 
No. 

1757
01:43:47,300 --> 01:43:50,800
So like it's really cool when 
people do testimonials and stuff

1758
01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:53,100
I'm like oh this is what's 
resonating with people or this 

1759
01:43:53,100 --> 01:43:56,000
is what like I think about that 
part but like what you said 

1760
01:43:56,000 --> 01:44:00,800
there I'm like, oh yeah, I guess
that would be Hard to do. 

1761
01:44:01,200 --> 01:44:04,200
And it makes me think about like
what resources could we create 

1762
01:44:04,200 --> 01:44:07,100
for the community to maybe he's 
that like what kind of 

1763
01:44:07,100 --> 01:44:11,700
spreadsheet flow to help? 
Do the if-then things for folks 

1764
01:44:11,700 --> 01:44:15,100
or something? 
Yeah I mean that's you know 

1765
01:44:16,100 --> 01:44:17,500
right? 
Yeah like I helped you or 

1766
01:44:17,500 --> 01:44:21,400
something. 
Yeah I mean you know it again 

1767
01:44:21,400 --> 01:44:27,100
going to 5e the thing with 5 e 
is a lot of the ventures are 

1768
01:44:27,100 --> 01:44:29,700
incredibly linear in. 
I mean, like, it's very like me 

1769
01:44:29,700 --> 01:44:33,000
wrote a story and I'm going to 
guide you through the beginning,

1770
01:44:33,000 --> 01:44:38,100
middle and end of the story that
I wrote, It's versus, you know, 

1771
01:44:38,100 --> 01:44:41,400
a lot more like the osr Our kind
of games that are coming out now

1772
01:44:41,400 --> 01:44:44,400
or NSR whatever where it's like,
instead like I built a bunch of 

1773
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:48,200
locations and then your guys 
actions will create a story over

1774
01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:51,300
time when you go through it, 
which still feel like more kind 

1775
01:44:51,300 --> 01:44:53,000
of like Point Crawley or hex 
Crawley. 

1776
01:44:53,900 --> 01:44:56,900
Delves, definitely, don't feel 
like any of that, you know what 

1777
01:44:56,900 --> 01:44:58,900
I mean? 
Like, I wouldn't call them 

1778
01:44:58,900 --> 01:45:04,200
necessarily Point crawls or any 
or obviously, not Hex Girls and 

1779
01:45:04,200 --> 01:45:08,600
it definitely doesn't feel like 
linear in the same way. 

1780
01:45:08,900 --> 01:45:11,800
So, I don't know what you guys 
could possibly do that, would 

1781
01:45:11,800 --> 01:45:14,700
make it a little bit easier 
because it feels so, you know 

1782
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:18,900
what it is. 
But like you said, I would be 

1783
01:45:18,900 --> 01:45:20,700
interesting to see what someone 
else comes up with. 

1784
01:45:20,700 --> 01:45:24,700
And if you and if you look at it
and go, aha, like the eye that's

1785
01:45:24,700 --> 01:45:25,600
something that I could have 
done. 

1786
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:28,100
That's exactly the way that I 
would do it versus a different 

1787
01:45:28,100 --> 01:45:31,600
style. 
So, yeah, I'd like to hear this,

1788
01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:35,600
like other people's voice to, to
the writing lie. 

1789
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:43,600
Yeah. because, I mean, James has
a very unique Style there that 

1790
01:45:43,600 --> 01:45:50,000
he's created and he just made it
up as he went, let's be honest. 

1791
01:45:51,800 --> 01:45:58,600
No, like I try to sometimes 
respond in our chats and a lot 

1792
01:45:58,600 --> 01:46:01,000
of times, I just let him do it 
because he's got a way better 

1793
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:10,200
voice responding to things. 
I kind of like you do that 

1794
01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:13,700
period. 
Yeah, really care deal with the 

1795
01:46:13,700 --> 01:46:19,700
people Dirk. 
Is this guy's being a jerk, 

1796
01:46:20,200 --> 01:46:26,100
please respond before I do. 
It's interesting the way you put

1797
01:46:26,100 --> 01:46:31,100
it out like like X, Rawls, Rawls
and whatnot and it's might 

1798
01:46:31,100 --> 01:46:33,600
actually help any folks are 
thinking about doing something 

1799
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:36,100
like that, like I actually start
with the map first. 

1800
01:46:37,700 --> 01:46:41,100
So you know, in the Dell verse 
guide we look through that and 

1801
01:46:41,100 --> 01:46:43,000
you have all the different 
entries with. 

1802
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:46,500
I doubt my personal background 
will show this but you know you 

1803
01:46:46,500 --> 01:46:49,400
got the different entries. 
With the different places you 

1804
01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:51,700
can go and you're in one room. 
It's like if you go out the 

1805
01:46:51,708 --> 01:46:56,700
door, go to 222 or whatever. 
So the I guess I'll start with 

1806
01:46:56,700 --> 01:46:58,600
like an entire map. 
I'll make the map out of the 

1807
01:46:58,608 --> 01:47:01,500
location and deciding what's 
location. 

1808
01:47:01,500 --> 01:47:06,400
So in a sense like Ian, this is 
maybe less true in their core of

1809
01:47:06,400 --> 01:47:10,000
the Dust Gloom. 
Would it's a little more 

1810
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:11,800
expensive this, but like, for 
the most part, they're like 

1811
01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:14,300
dungeon crawls. 
Like, if you're in this room, 

1812
01:47:14,500 --> 01:47:17,300
this is what's happening. 
But here's what you can do about

1813
01:47:17,300 --> 01:47:19,000
it. 
But I think it doesn't seem that

1814
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,000
way because you're not looking 
at the whole map at one time, 

1815
01:47:22,300 --> 01:47:23,800
right? 
When you're going through it, 

1816
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:27,400
you're looking at where you are,
and if you've mapped it along 

1817
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:29,400
the way you maybe get a better 
idea of that. 

1818
01:47:29,400 --> 01:47:32,700
So it feels like guess maybe. 
Yeah, it feels like you're like 

1819
01:47:32,700 --> 01:47:36,400
more player playing like an 
old-school AT&T uricani game 

1820
01:47:36,400 --> 01:47:39,800
where you're mapping as you go 
but you don't get to see it from

1821
01:47:39,800 --> 01:47:42,500
the other end of the DM has that
all behind this DM screen. 

1822
01:47:42,500 --> 01:47:50,300
Well, kind of like a hero Quest 
but theater of the Mind almost. 

1823
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:53,200
Yeah, that's, that's an 
interesting way of thinking 

1824
01:47:53,200 --> 01:47:56,600
about it and absolutely correct.
It kind of seems to go. 

1825
01:47:56,600 --> 01:47:59,600
Yeah, like, I mean, you know, 
when you said that I imagine 

1826
01:47:59,700 --> 01:48:03,500
like putting App down and then 
putting them was like a story 

1827
01:48:03,500 --> 01:48:06,700
web on top of the map. 
I don't know if that's how, 

1828
01:48:06,700 --> 01:48:08,800
like, literally almost like the 
dot thing you had earlier, just 

1829
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:11,800
being like, all right, there's 
ten rooms then I can just say 

1830
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:13,500
boom-di boom-di boom-di boom-di 
boom. 

1831
01:48:13,500 --> 01:48:16,000
You know and go that way I mean 
that makes it feel a little bit 

1832
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:18,600
less less. 
I don't say unapproachable. 

1833
01:48:18,600 --> 01:48:21,100
I don't know why the words not 
coming to me because I'm tired 

1834
01:48:21,100 --> 01:48:25,000
but you know what I mean? 
Like like a little bit more that

1835
01:48:25,000 --> 01:48:26,500
makes it a little feels a little
bit more accessible. 

1836
01:48:26,500 --> 01:48:29,700
When you think about it that way
to just be like do them at first

1837
01:48:29,700 --> 01:48:32,500
and then just put all the just 
Just put all the pieces 

1838
01:48:32,500 --> 01:48:35,400
together. 
Yeah I'm happy to part and put 

1839
01:48:35,400 --> 01:48:38,500
some numbers on it. 
You know there you go by lurkers

1840
01:48:38,500 --> 01:48:41,400
got more dialogue trees. 
So that's I think one of the 

1841
01:48:41,407 --> 01:48:45,100
places that really starts to 
differentiate is and most of the

1842
01:48:45,100 --> 01:48:48,600
Dells, your decision making is 
locational based what location 

1843
01:48:48,600 --> 01:48:51,700
you're going to be and and then 
each location might have a 

1844
01:48:51,700 --> 01:48:54,800
little tree based on like, do 
you really want to ponder that 

1845
01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:57,500
orb, you know, decisions you 
make in the room? 

1846
01:48:59,300 --> 01:49:01,900
But yeah, well, it really comes 
down to like those first steps 

1847
01:49:01,900 --> 01:49:06,600
or just get that map and key it 
up like you would any other 

1848
01:49:06,600 --> 01:49:11,400
Adventure you're writing? 
Yeah, yeah, I know I'm good. 

1849
01:49:14,700 --> 01:49:16,900
Not just can say I'm like, you 
just had like it that makes me 

1850
01:49:16,900 --> 01:49:19,300
even more excited to see what 
someone else could could 

1851
01:49:19,308 --> 01:49:22,800
possibly write for this. 
And here, as you said like Jane,

1852
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:25,200
there's a very distinct voice to
the way that it's written. 

1853
01:49:25,200 --> 01:49:27,400
It would be really interesting 
to see if someone tries to mimic

1854
01:49:27,400 --> 01:49:28,900
that or goes off in a different 
direction. 

1855
01:49:29,400 --> 01:49:30,300
Yeah. 
Right. 

1856
01:49:30,400 --> 01:49:35,200
Right. 
You'd spoken earlier about the 

1857
01:49:37,900 --> 01:49:42,800
the evolution that like, these 
newer books are going to have 

1858
01:49:42,800 --> 01:49:50,300
more dialogue, more kind of in 
World information and like more 

1859
01:49:50,300 --> 01:49:55,100
of a campaign feel like there's 
an actual story there as opposed

1860
01:49:55,100 --> 01:50:00,800
to, you know, the first delve 
the decaying manse in the 

1861
01:50:00,808 --> 01:50:05,100
developer's guide. 
It will where it's more of. 

1862
01:50:05,700 --> 01:50:10,000
I almost feel like we're doing a
good thing here that it gets 

1863
01:50:10,000 --> 01:50:13,200
more evolved with each 
expansion. 

1864
01:50:13,900 --> 01:50:17,600
So that like by the time you get
to the tougher like Onyx Tower 

1865
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:22,100
is actually kind of tough. 
I think we lost 2. 

1866
01:50:22,100 --> 01:50:24,200
M 1 had to go back out and get 
more roads. 

1867
01:50:27,400 --> 01:50:31,100
It gives you the option like the
opportunity to be better at the 

1868
01:50:31,100 --> 01:50:34,900
game by the time, you know, 
those bigger things happen. 

1869
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:37,700
You get only. 
We're aiming at the complexity. 

1870
01:50:38,000 --> 01:50:39,900
Yeah. 
Well yeah, exactly. 

1871
01:50:40,700 --> 01:50:42,700
I mean, that's a great. 
That's I mean that's a fantastic

1872
01:50:42,700 --> 01:50:45,700
way to do it though. 
Is like, if you start with, you 

1873
01:50:45,708 --> 01:50:49,000
know, simpler delves like you 
said to get people actually 

1874
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:51,500
understand how the game is 
played and kind of forgot the 

1875
01:50:51,508 --> 01:50:54,300
nuance and the way that they 
want to play it before they go 

1876
01:50:54,300 --> 01:50:56,600
into more advanced stuff, you 
know. 

1877
01:50:56,600 --> 01:50:59,100
And the way That you guys even 
release the stuff, you know, 

1878
01:50:59,100 --> 01:51:02,100
there's like the quick and dirty
is after really something a 

1879
01:51:02,108 --> 01:51:04,200
little bit bigger for our next, 
our kind of gives you that 

1880
01:51:04,200 --> 01:51:06,900
opportunity to like you said, 
sit down, do three hours getting

1881
01:51:06,900 --> 01:51:09,800
out and then level up a 
character a little bit, bounce 

1882
01:51:09,800 --> 01:51:12,200
into something bigger. 
So it's like use, I think it's a

1883
01:51:12,208 --> 01:51:14,500
fantastic way to do it. 
Thank you. 

1884
01:51:14,500 --> 01:51:18,400
My favorite encounter so far, is
the first encounter and the 

1885
01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:22,200
first Del Sol the decaying 
manse. 

1886
01:51:22,400 --> 01:51:26,100
Like the very first thing. 
It's if it's a spoiler but won't

1887
01:51:26,100 --> 01:51:27,400
be for long because I'm anyone 
plays. 

1888
01:51:27,400 --> 01:51:30,900
It's a person you're going to 
run into you go to open a door 

1889
01:51:30,900 --> 01:51:32,900
to a place. 
And you run into for giant rats,

1890
01:51:33,700 --> 01:51:37,200
would you like kind of like the 
easiest thing to kill in the 

1891
01:51:37,200 --> 01:51:39,300
entire game? 
Like if you roll one on their 

1892
01:51:39,300 --> 01:51:42,400
bullshit, they just Keel over 
dead themselves, right? 

1893
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:45,000
Wait, it was that easy. 
And they're dead, which 

1894
01:51:45,300 --> 01:51:47,300
generally happens in that first 
encounter because there's so 

1895
01:51:47,300 --> 01:51:50,100
many of them, but you like is 
always entertaining. 

1896
01:51:52,100 --> 01:51:56,500
But I did that on purpose 
because like I've wanted to get 

1897
01:51:56,500 --> 01:51:58,900
folks used to the mechanics 
before they are in something 

1898
01:51:58,900 --> 01:52:01,500
higher Stakes, you know. 
So they have a chance to like, 

1899
01:52:02,000 --> 01:52:05,200
figure out their movement, 
figure out how their powers work

1900
01:52:05,500 --> 01:52:09,200
while the rats, only the one in 
front can attack any other one. 

1901
01:52:09,200 --> 01:52:12,000
Like if it can't reach you, it 
moves up in the marching order. 

1902
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:14,300
So they just spent a lot of time
scurrying around Around each 

1903
01:52:14,300 --> 01:52:17,300
other as you, like, stabbed, and
Bash on, and they end up dying 

1904
01:52:17,300 --> 01:52:19,200
on their own accord. 
So, it kind of is like, the 

1905
01:52:19,200 --> 01:52:26,300
tutorial session of the game. 
However, their their quality 

1906
01:52:26,400 --> 01:52:30,300
bullshit is like attack a random
Rogue. 

1907
01:52:30,300 --> 01:52:32,500
It doesn't matter where they are
in the order. 

1908
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:37,800
And in that first encounter, you
also find out that bullshit, 

1909
01:52:37,900 --> 01:52:41,500
like, you may find out that 
bullshit like works hard against

1910
01:52:41,500 --> 01:52:45,000
you as well, you know, I think 
I'll The character in that first

1911
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:50,800
room just because a couple of 
rats got sixes and made a tax 

1912
01:52:51,500 --> 01:52:53,000
that normally wouldn't attack 
me. 

1913
01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:58,800
Yeah there's it. 
There is so much learning in 

1914
01:52:58,800 --> 01:53:03,500
that first room of how mechanics
work and it was a great idea. 

1915
01:53:03,500 --> 01:53:07,200
James yeah. 
I mean I suppose it feels like a

1916
01:53:07,200 --> 01:53:08,600
tutorial. 
Yeah. 

1917
01:53:09,300 --> 01:53:10,800
Yeah. 
Like once you get through it and

1918
01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:13,800
like one other encounter like it
just it sir. 

1919
01:53:13,900 --> 01:53:17,400
It's flowing really quick. 
You get the like, You get the 

1920
01:53:17,400 --> 01:53:19,900
vibe down you like, okay. 
Now I will for bitrate and then 

1921
01:53:19,900 --> 01:53:26,100
on to the next one and like so 
like combat starts to go like 

1922
01:53:26,100 --> 01:53:30,000
decently decently quick, your 
diesel engaged all time after 

1923
01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:34,800
that. 
And so I feel maybe like a page.

1924
01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:37,300
Scroll. 
What's that rule? 

1925
01:53:38,600 --> 01:53:40,600
No, I might. 
Like I said, I can't. 

1926
01:53:40,600 --> 01:53:43,500
I'm excited to go over the game.
I'm excited to see the the 

1927
01:53:43,500 --> 01:53:46,900
direction that this goes and we 
me and hotter, keep tossing 

1928
01:53:46,900 --> 01:53:49,500
around ideas of just a man, we 
should really play solo games on

1929
01:53:49,500 --> 01:53:50,900
Steam. 
I got it only takes one of us. 

1930
01:53:50,900 --> 01:53:54,100
We just got to do it. 
But again, we're both, you know,

1931
01:53:54,200 --> 01:53:56,000
kind of lazy and have terrible 
ADHD. 

1932
01:53:56,000 --> 01:54:00,400
So if I could ever actually sit 
down and and get some time to 

1933
01:54:00,400 --> 01:54:03,500
do, this is definitely on the 
top of the list for solo games. 

1934
01:54:03,500 --> 01:54:06,000
That would be awesome to play 
something to chat said it's 

1935
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:07,300
cool. 
There seems to be a good amount 

1936
01:54:07,300 --> 01:54:10,600
of material for the games. 
Speaking of that, we are still 

1937
01:54:10,600 --> 01:54:13,700
doing the giveaway. 
I think the plan is to do it at 

1938
01:54:13,700 --> 01:54:15,600
the end of the review. 
That's what we did last time and

1939
01:54:15,600 --> 01:54:19,700
that gives people all day to 
enter but did want to just kind 

1940
01:54:19,700 --> 01:54:23,000
of show some of the people that 
are that are looking because 

1941
01:54:23,000 --> 01:54:27,000
podcast land, I'm sorry you 
don't get to see this but so I 

1942
01:54:27,000 --> 01:54:29,100
would you were like, hey, you 
know, I would you like to do a 

1943
01:54:29,100 --> 01:54:30,200
giveaway? 
I can send you some quick and 

1944
01:54:30,200 --> 01:54:32,700
dirty as and then I got this 
bought this box. 

1945
01:54:32,900 --> 01:54:34,600
That was much heavier than I 
expected. 

1946
01:54:35,100 --> 01:54:38,400
This is pretty much all the 
content you is this all the Do 

1947
01:54:38,400 --> 01:54:40,600
you have for marching order now?
First of all, we got the 

1948
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:50,800
mudblood box set which has the 
actually to original games or 

1949
01:54:50,800 --> 01:54:54,000
I'm sorry to its original books.
And as I said before that, it's 

1950
01:54:55,200 --> 01:54:58,600
like the same kind of image, but
just from different perspectives

1951
01:54:58,600 --> 01:55:00,900
like the goblins on one side and
then like the heroes on the 

1952
01:55:00,900 --> 01:55:10,400
other deck of cards, this Old 
art gallery here with cool ship 

1953
01:55:10,400 --> 01:55:12,400
and loot. 
The dad, all of this right here.

1954
01:55:13,500 --> 01:55:18,300
We got Master of the Onyx hour. 
And we have one of the quick and

1955
01:55:18,300 --> 01:55:20,700
dirty. 
He's now, you said the this the 

1956
01:55:20,700 --> 01:55:24,100
one that we're giving away, the 
only thing missing was the back 

1957
01:55:24,100 --> 01:55:27,400
card, so you put a printed 
backyard and right? 

1958
01:55:27,900 --> 01:55:30,400
Yeah, yeah. 
So for the quick and dirty for 

1959
01:55:30,400 --> 01:55:36,200
the Indiegogo campaign itself 
for protecting serve Rumford, we

1960
01:55:36,200 --> 01:55:42,700
printed out a exclusive Edition 
limited edition that's when look

1961
01:55:42,700 --> 01:55:46,300
for a limited edition that aside
from the actual I'll delve 

1962
01:55:46,300 --> 01:55:47,600
itself. 
It actually contains a little 

1963
01:55:47,600 --> 01:55:51,300
mini game within the do. 
That's on the backing card but 

1964
01:55:51,300 --> 01:55:54,400
that's like the one thing we 
don't have printed printed. 

1965
01:55:54,400 --> 01:55:59,700
So I printed out at home, one 
side is something we haven't 

1966
01:55:59,700 --> 01:56:02,000
announced yet, so I'm not going 
to talk too much about that, but

1967
01:56:02,000 --> 01:56:07,600
the other side is part of the 
protecting Cirque Rumford deld. 

1968
01:56:09,400 --> 01:56:12,700
So yeah, whoever gets that one. 
I swear the backing board in the

1969
01:56:12,700 --> 01:56:16,500
regular one is better. 
But that said I do You can't 

1970
01:56:16,500 --> 01:56:19,600
really complain and you're 
getting it for free and not only

1971
01:56:19,600 --> 01:56:24,200
that you're getting all of this.
So all you have to do to enter 

1972
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:28,100
to literally get all of this 
stuff is to just go onto the old

1973
01:56:28,100 --> 01:56:34,400
tweeters find the tweet that 
says like this tweet to enter. 

1974
01:56:34,600 --> 01:56:38,400
And then what we did last time 
was right at the end of the 

1975
01:56:38,400 --> 01:56:41,400
review will just go to a random 
number generator. 

1976
01:56:41,400 --> 01:56:44,900
Say hey there's 20 people in 
will start from the bottom up, 

1977
01:56:44,900 --> 01:56:46,300
you know? 
And then we'll just Roll a 

1978
01:56:46,300 --> 01:56:49,800
random number on stream and then
we will pick that person. 

1979
01:56:49,800 --> 01:56:52,800
I will message them, I'll get 
your address and hopefully 

1980
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:55,100
quicker than the last one. 
I will get it in the mail and 

1981
01:56:55,100 --> 01:56:59,000
get us into but since this is 
already in a box, all I got to 

1982
01:56:59,000 --> 01:57:00,800
do is tape it up and actually 
make myself go to the post 

1983
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:04,000
office. 
So that is the plan for this 

1984
01:57:04,000 --> 01:57:05,400
evening. 
As I said, we're just going to 

1985
01:57:05,407 --> 01:57:10,600
be going through the players 
book, just the Rogues handbook 

1986
01:57:10,800 --> 01:57:15,800
tonight partially because we 
don't read through intro. 

1987
01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:18,600
Oh, the adventures or anything 
on suryam are thing is always if

1988
01:57:18,600 --> 01:57:21,100
you want the adventure, go by 
the fucking book support the 

1989
01:57:21,100 --> 01:57:23,600
person that's making the game 
and give them your money, so you

1990
01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:25,200
they can keep making that kind 
of stuff. 

1991
01:57:25,600 --> 01:57:27,200
So we're going to dig through 
that tonight. 

1992
01:57:31,500 --> 01:57:33,700
I'm trying to think of what else
I could possibly ask you. 

1993
01:57:33,700 --> 01:57:35,500
This is one of the longest 
interviews. 

1994
01:57:35,500 --> 01:57:37,500
We I have ever done on the 
thing. 

1995
01:57:37,500 --> 01:57:39,900
We you, when you were in the 
beginning, I was like, oh what? 

1996
01:57:39,900 --> 01:57:41,900
How much time and you're like 
less than three hours? 

1997
01:57:41,900 --> 01:57:43,300
I was like, oh that's no 
problem. 

1998
01:57:43,300 --> 01:57:45,400
We usually go for like an hour 
and 10 minutes. 

1999
01:57:46,100 --> 01:57:48,700
We're over two hours at this 
point right now but it's been 

2000
01:57:48,700 --> 01:57:50,600
really, really how? 
Yeah. 

2001
01:57:53,100 --> 01:57:54,800
Yeah, it's been really 
fantastic. 

2002
01:57:55,900 --> 01:57:57,700
I'm super excited to go over 
this tonight. 

2003
01:57:58,000 --> 01:58:00,000
I think mechanically and like I 
said, Vibe and everything. 

2004
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:02,300
This is such a fun game. 
Exactly what I'm looking for 

2005
01:58:02,300 --> 01:58:04,500
right now. 
As far as like as a personal as 

2006
01:58:04,500 --> 01:58:07,900
a player playing the game and I 
can't wait to see what Hunter 

2007
01:58:07,900 --> 01:58:10,300
thinks about it. 
So, be really interesting to 

2008
01:58:10,300 --> 01:58:13,200
see. 
I'm super excited to see the 

2009
01:58:13,200 --> 01:58:17,000
review later tonight. 
I will almost certainly be in 

2010
01:58:17,000 --> 01:58:18,900
the chat for to. 
So if there's questions, right? 

2011
01:58:18,900 --> 01:58:22,300
Not do you mind if I blather 
about the campaign itself for a 

2012
01:58:22,308 --> 01:58:24,300
moment, but please do. 
Yeah. 

2013
01:58:24,300 --> 01:58:26,800
And the website. 
And where can people find all 

2014
01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:29,300
the stuff that were giving away 
and and all of that kind of 

2015
01:58:29,300 --> 01:58:31,100
stuff? 
Please do so. 

2016
01:58:32,200 --> 01:58:35,600
First, the Indiegogo campaign, 
everything you just saw there 

2017
01:58:37,300 --> 01:58:40,400
that for the giveaway plus a lot
of cool merch. 

2018
01:58:40,400 --> 01:58:42,600
So if you've never gotten into 
game before, we have a great 

2019
01:58:42,600 --> 01:58:47,300
intro tear called the high 
sorcerer here. 

2020
01:58:47,700 --> 01:58:50,900
Yeah, I almost said got a I'm 
like, no, this isn't doomed. 

2021
01:58:51,000 --> 01:58:54,200
The high sorcerer tear and it 
comes with everything you saw 

2022
01:58:54,200 --> 01:58:56,100
there. 
So like every delve that is out 

2023
01:58:56,100 --> 01:58:59,300
there for marching order. 
Now it also comes with some cool

2024
01:58:59,300 --> 01:59:00,800
merch. 
It's got some stickers, it's got

2025
01:59:00,800 --> 01:59:03,600
the bat. 
Well sheets which are pretty 

2026
01:59:03,600 --> 01:59:08,200
dope and the the can kuzey 
because if you're playing need 

2027
01:59:08,200 --> 01:59:11,300
to be keeping your beverage 
School in style, so it's like 

2028
01:59:11,300 --> 01:59:13,300
over a hundred five dollars 
worth of stuff. 

2029
01:59:13,600 --> 01:59:16,200
We have it available right now, 
for this one, my favorite thing 

2030
01:59:16,200 --> 01:59:23,100
to do for how much Brad $69 nice
because we couldn't charge for 

2031
01:59:23,100 --> 01:59:25,100
20, because that was more than 
the cost. 

2032
01:59:25,200 --> 01:59:29,500
That was so yeah, like the base 
game itself is 50 bucks. 

2033
01:59:29,500 --> 01:59:32,400
So 419 two more dollars you can 
like literally get everything 

2034
01:59:32,500 --> 01:59:36,800
that we have, but even if you 
don't do that, we do still have 

2035
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:40,900
the base game available as an 
add-on with the quick and dirty 

2036
01:59:40,900 --> 01:59:45,200
delves and it's on sale there as
well, and everything is 

2037
01:59:45,200 --> 01:59:52,000
available on PDF if you're not 
Able to go as for the print 

2038
01:59:52,100 --> 01:59:56,700
versions or you live in some 
random spot in Europe. 

2039
01:59:57,500 --> 01:59:59,600
Yeah. 
Like oh, yeah, we got worldwide 

2040
01:59:59,600 --> 02:00:01,500
shipping. 
But yeah, it gets expensive and 

2041
02:00:01,500 --> 02:00:05,200
we wish we can make it cheaper 
than we did, but yeah, it's what

2042
02:00:05,200 --> 02:00:08,100
cost. 
So, yeah. 

2043
02:00:08,300 --> 02:00:09,900
Look for marching order, a quick
and dirty. 

2044
02:00:09,900 --> 02:00:12,900
He's on Indiegogo, I believe 
there's like a link attached. 

2045
02:00:12,900 --> 02:00:17,500
All the post about the reviews 
and podcast and why not aside 

2046
02:00:17,500 --> 02:00:20,000
from that. 
You can find Dust at crumbling 

2047
02:00:20,000 --> 02:00:23,500
keep.com if you just want to 
check out all the things like 

2048
02:00:23,500 --> 02:00:28,700
deep dark wood is there and we 
will actually be launching 

2049
02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:31,500
provided all goes well and I 
think it will be. 

2050
02:00:31,500 --> 02:00:35,600
We're going to be launching an 
expanded deep dark wood and pain

2051
02:00:37,000 --> 02:00:41,200
in a little later this month. 
And that will be good for five 

2052
02:00:41,200 --> 02:00:45,400
years, Mork board or ose. 
And like I said, I think it 

2053
02:00:45,407 --> 02:00:48,000
feels more old-school. 
D than anything else anyway. 

2054
02:00:49,600 --> 02:00:52,000
Yeah, marching order.com. 
You can search for marching 

2055
02:00:52,000 --> 02:00:56,300
order on Twitter while it hasn't
yet burnt to the ground or 

2056
02:00:56,300 --> 02:01:01,000
Facebook or Instagram with are 
also. 

2057
02:01:01,300 --> 02:01:03,100
Hold on. 
Also available at the site, you 

2058
02:01:03,100 --> 02:01:06,300
can actually hire James to run a
game if you. 

2059
02:01:06,300 --> 02:01:08,100
Oh yeah. 
That's good point to, as I 

2060
02:01:08,108 --> 02:01:11,200
mentioned, professional dungeon 
master like I mostly do 5e stuff

2061
02:01:11,200 --> 02:01:14,200
but that said like I mostly do 
find me stuff because that's 

2062
02:01:14,200 --> 02:01:17,800
what people contact me to play. 
I have a lot of games and if I 

2063
02:01:17,808 --> 02:01:21,400
don't have it, I'm happy to 
learn it and I would love to be 

2064
02:01:21,400 --> 02:01:25,800
running something not by V 
naught because I like 85e just 

2065
02:01:25,800 --> 02:01:28,400
because I do it a lot and I like
variety. 

2066
02:01:28,900 --> 02:01:31,200
Um so that's that Jaime from 
have you two? 

2067
02:01:32,700 --> 02:01:35,400
Finally the last thing I think I
want to mention is so we have a 

2068
02:01:35,400 --> 02:01:41,100
daily email list that you can 
sign up for a die. 

2069
02:01:41,400 --> 02:01:43,900
What's the best way to do that? 
I haven't thought that through. 

2070
02:01:44,900 --> 02:01:47,100
I think there's a link on the 
Indiegogo campaign. 

2071
02:01:47,100 --> 02:01:49,100
I think you can probably find it
on the Right. 

2072
02:01:49,400 --> 02:01:54,300
But we do like RPG content every
single day. 

2073
02:01:54,300 --> 02:01:58,100
We sent out through there, like,
currently, we're doing stuff for

2074
02:01:58,100 --> 02:02:01,600
ose. 
We got cyborg stuff going out 

2075
02:02:01,600 --> 02:02:06,400
every day, on their started a 
dorm rooms dark domains, which 

2076
02:02:06,400 --> 02:02:09,100
is one of my favorites, like 
documents is like, maybe 

2077
02:02:09,100 --> 02:02:12,300
marginally fifth edition. 
Normally, it doesn't have a 

2078
02:02:12,300 --> 02:02:15,900
mechanics involved at all. 
It's, it's for copyrighted 

2079
02:02:15,900 --> 02:02:18,600
campaign world that exists in 
the midst and as scary as A 

2080
02:02:18,608 --> 02:02:19,800
bunch of little spooky 
encounters. 

2081
02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:24,100
You can run people through and 
then do some higher leagues and 

2082
02:02:24,100 --> 02:02:26,400
it changes up on occasion to. 
But it's like every day, there's

2083
02:02:26,400 --> 02:02:28,800
like new RPG content coming out 
through that. 

2084
02:02:28,800 --> 02:02:32,000
So like that's kind of my pride 
and joy and also the best place 

2085
02:02:32,000 --> 02:02:33,600
to find out about whatever else 
we're doing. 

2086
02:02:33,600 --> 02:02:36,500
So sign up for the mailing list 
and I think that's my long spiel

2087
02:02:36,500 --> 02:02:38,400
of please love us and give us a 
tension. 

2088
02:02:38,400 --> 02:02:43,100
I will say that I think of all 
of the stuff you're talking 

2089
02:02:43,100 --> 02:02:47,200
about that last bit, is the part
that just blows my mind? 

2090
02:02:47,200 --> 02:02:50,300
The most that you can? 
Put out daily content. 

2091
02:02:50,300 --> 02:02:54,700
I have not actually updated our 
Instagram in over two months 

2092
02:02:55,400 --> 02:02:57,800
because I can't, I just don't 
have the spoon. 

2093
02:02:57,800 --> 02:03:02,100
Stephen do one post a day. 
And you're literally, like, I 

2094
02:03:02,100 --> 02:03:04,400
signed up for your newsletter 
when I sign up for the Indiegogo

2095
02:03:04,700 --> 02:03:07,700
campaign and its daily. 
It's not just like a little 

2096
02:03:07,700 --> 02:03:09,500
thing either. 
It's a whole thing every single 

2097
02:03:09,500 --> 02:03:11,900
day and it just every time I get
it, I'm gonna get blows my mind 

2098
02:03:11,900 --> 02:03:14,000
that you doing this every single
day because if I did one of 

2099
02:03:14,008 --> 02:03:15,800
those, I'd be like, fuck I'm 
done for a week. 

2100
02:03:16,000 --> 02:03:19,000
Like that's that's my whole 
that's my output that That's it.

2101
02:03:19,600 --> 02:03:22,200
I mean for what it's worth 
because of the professional 

2102
02:03:22,500 --> 02:03:25,900
dming, like I get to do it full 
time, you know? 

2103
02:03:25,900 --> 02:03:28,300
And that helps. 
So, like I say that for anyone 

2104
02:03:28,300 --> 02:03:30,200
who's like, oh man, this is so 
much. 

2105
02:03:30,200 --> 02:03:32,500
How can anyone do this like 40 
hours a week? 

2106
02:03:32,500 --> 02:03:34,400
That's how like don't beat 
yourself up. 

2107
02:03:34,400 --> 02:03:36,400
It's a fucking nightmare out 
there. 

2108
02:03:39,300 --> 02:03:42,400
Yeah, yeah. 
Not every day new RPG content 

2109
02:03:44,000 --> 02:03:46,400
and I guess it's great. 
Like, I'm really enjoying it. 

2110
02:03:46,400 --> 02:03:50,800
Getting it every single day. 
If you're listening, they're 

2111
02:03:50,800 --> 02:03:55,700
still 10 days left in campaign. 
I will this podcast and the you 

2112
02:03:55,700 --> 02:03:57,700
to know everything. 
What's today's Saturday, June? 

2113
02:03:57,700 --> 02:04:00,800
Only be up by about Monday. 
So if you're listening to this, 

2114
02:04:00,800 --> 02:04:04,000
when it drops, you still have 
plenty of time to go back the 

2115
02:04:04,000 --> 02:04:05,900
quick and dirty is number one on
Indiegogo. 

2116
02:04:06,200 --> 02:04:08,500
You can search it on Indiegogo 
or you can literally just do 

2117
02:04:08,500 --> 02:04:10,300
what I do. 
Just go to your address bar and 

2118
02:04:10,300 --> 02:04:12,100
type marching order quick and 
dirty is no. 

2119
02:04:12,100 --> 02:04:13,700
Probably the very first thing 
that pops up. 

2120
02:04:13,900 --> 02:04:16,500
Highly recommend, getting it as 
part of the giveaway. 

2121
02:04:17,000 --> 02:04:19,800
James also sent me one of these 
and I got to crack it open and 

2122
02:04:19,800 --> 02:04:23,000
it is wonderful. 
And for what, what's the base of

2123
02:04:23,000 --> 02:04:24,600
this? 
Like $12 to actually get it 

2124
02:04:24,600 --> 02:04:28,900
printed, so it's like four bucks
per delve, incredibly worth it, 

2125
02:04:28,900 --> 02:04:32,000
like super well done like very, 
very, very excited for this. 

2126
02:04:32,600 --> 02:04:37,200
So highly recommend getting that
and for 30% off to get fucking 

2127
02:04:37,200 --> 02:04:39,700
everything that you guys have 
put out is such A fantastic 

2128
02:04:39,700 --> 02:04:43,000
deal. 
So very very, very much 

2129
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:45,400
recommend going in. 
Snagging all of it, if that's 

2130
02:04:45,400 --> 02:04:46,600
possible for you guys to do 
right now. 

2131
02:04:48,100 --> 02:04:51,700
And that's that's it. 
We are, I am the weekly scroll. 

2132
02:04:51,900 --> 02:04:53,900
If you're listening to this is 
probably not the first episode 

2133
02:04:53,900 --> 02:04:56,700
so you know where to find us. 
And if you're watching all of 

2134
02:04:56,708 --> 02:04:59,700
the stuff is right down there 
below and definitely go check 

2135
02:04:59,700 --> 02:05:03,600
out Kremlin keep marching water 
and all that stuff and if you're

2136
02:05:03,600 --> 02:05:06,500
in chat come back tonight at 7 
p.m. 

2137
02:05:06,500 --> 02:05:08,900
Pacific time where we're going 
to dig through. 

2138
02:05:09,100 --> 02:05:11,000
She water again. 
Thank you guys so much. 

2139
02:05:11,000 --> 02:05:13,600
You're awesome guys. 
It's been fantastic talking with

2140
02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:16,900
you, and I'm excited to see 
especially if you're in the chat

2141
02:05:17,300 --> 02:05:21,200
what what you guys I'm stuck to 
go through this. 

2142
02:05:21,200 --> 02:05:23,400
I'm really excited to hear what 
Hunter has to say it and get to 

2143
02:05:23,400 --> 02:05:25,200
the the score at the end. 
So we'll see how that goes. 

2144
02:05:25,500 --> 02:05:28,200
But again the other wonderful. 
Thank you so much. 

2145
02:05:28,500 --> 02:05:29,900
Yeah. 
Thank you so much for having us.

2146
02:05:29,900 --> 02:05:31,900
This is been great. 
Absolutely. 

2147
02:05:32,400 --> 02:05:35,400
Great talk. 
Um, we will see all you guys 

2148
02:05:35,400 --> 02:05:36,800
later. 
Bye.