1 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,680 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll podcast. 2 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,800 My Name Is Ryan. And I, for one, love cats. 3 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:26,360 And with us today we have, we will probably be a returning 4 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,040 normal guest. This is Jert of Space Penguin 5 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,120 Inc, a man who needs no introduction. 6 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:32,439 How you doing today the? Legendary. 7 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:33,520 Hi, I'm. Good. 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,440 I like cat. I like I like cats too. 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,800 But see this is this is not cat chats. 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:41,960 This is Cat chats, by the way. This is. 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,560 Not cat chats. On the weekly cat chats. 12 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,760 That's what we'll call it. This is not cat chats on the 13 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:53,200 weekly scroll. Yes, yeah, jerk jerk crater. 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,120 For those who don't know, how fucking dare you? 15 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,320 Pick up any indie book and you'll probably see his name in 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,680 there. How's it going? 17 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,160 How's life? How is not cats? 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,680 Yeah, wow. The company is named after cats. 19 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:15,120 For those watching at home, we now know things are things are 20 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,600 going pretty well. Just today just took receipt of 21 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:26,240 1000 copies of Forbidden Psalm end time softcover for the US 22 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:33,760 and those backers who were shipping out to from our end and 23 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,880 and other two other new releases we could talk about in just a 24 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,920 second. And Seas of I've Got Seas of 25 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,840 Sand. I've got some Cairn news as we 26 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,680 talked about shortly before we went live. 27 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,400 I'm also discovering the joy again. 28 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,280 It's an annual gift of small business taxes. 29 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:02,280 Yay. And yeah, mostly Debbie and I 30 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:07,640 are just super busy. We were on a short trip and got 31 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,479 to visit some friends in the industry. 32 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:11,960 Industry and not in the industry. 33 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,600 Yeah, ate a lot, a lot of food back home in KC, MO area. 34 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,120 And no BBQ, though. It was weird. 35 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,120 No BBQ this time. That's all right. 36 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,280 That's all right. Got to go through the new Kansas 37 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,520 City airport, which was kind of kind of odd and weird because 38 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,960 the old one's still there and I so severely hope they leave the 39 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,240 old one there and just let it get all desiccated. 40 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,000 So it's like a dead maul at some point. 41 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,120 Yeah, other than that we've just been hopping and bopping, waking 42 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,040 up early every single day and getting shit done. 43 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,760 Well, that sounds like it's some adventuring. 44 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,960 Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. 45 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,200 I'm excited we made. No. 46 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,240 What's up? I thought you were being quiet. 47 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,040 I thought we made you mad with the cat chat. 48 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,080 Oh no, listen, he just give me enough stuff about the cats. 49 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:14,920 It's not a big deal. It's a fucking meme at this 50 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:15,960 point. It's it's whatever. 51 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,800 No, but but yeah, the adventuring sounds fantastic. 52 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,000 I'm excited to get Forbidden Psalms when it comes out. 53 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,000 You said we have, we have some new some. 54 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,160 New. Yeah, we have two other new. 55 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,880 Well, here, let's This is the forbidden Psalm. 56 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,040 End Times soft cover. I really like what Will did with 57 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,880 the spine on this and what we did on Collection of Death and I 58 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:44,680 think going forward we have discussed doing that with all of 59 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,800 with the new with the new bigger books. 60 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,240 Zine's obviously they're still going to be saddle stitched but 61 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,960 anything that's perfect bound or hardcover we're talking about 62 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,200 doing this. Just it just it looks neat and 63 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,760 of course it makes the printers be like you know that your art 64 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,320 is going over the bleed and we just, we love it. 65 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:08,280 Printers hate us. So yeah, printers what is it? 66 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,080 Fish love me, men fear me and printers hate us. 67 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:13,360 Say something like that. I don't know. 68 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:14,400 You talk. About something like that. 69 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,560 But it's it's fairly chunky. It's got a nice good, resilient 70 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:25,240 cover and everything on the inside looks super cool and 71 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,720 great. We will rework all of the 72 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,160 margins, all of the gutters, so we're not losing anything at 73 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,160 all. You always run into that problem 74 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,240 with some soft covers, but yeah, everything got tweaked out. 75 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,240 Just overall, for a book that was essentially built over the 76 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,360 last two and a half, three years, like this thing feels 77 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:54,640 like the End Times edition like the Definitive Edition going 78 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,880 forward. And yeah, just kind of as a 79 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,120 template of how we're going to do all of the other books and 80 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,280 stuff. Last War, I know some of the 81 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:13,400 folks have know that we There's a box coming with in the deal 82 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,960 with War Games Atlantic featuring some of their 83 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:18,480 miniatures. Yes. 84 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,440 If you're on the forbidden song Discord, there's that's where 85 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,760 the latest breaking news is at. But yeah working with Charlie 86 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:33,040 and the gang at WGA and you know Last War has been re edited and 87 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,440 retreated and that's going to be coming in a box set with some 88 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,960 sprues and some possible tokens and stuff. 89 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,520 I don't know. That's not we're not handling 90 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,880 that end of things as far as we handled the book getting to 91 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,600 them. But that's looking like that's 92 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,280 going to come out sometime in the next couple of months. 93 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,800 There was a mold situation and not mold as in like the fungus, 94 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,760 but the mold as in the mold that they make the sprues off of and 95 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,000 stuff. I know I have to say that 96 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,080 because when I saw there was a mold delay and I was like wait a 97 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,120 minute, mold and printing, Oh no, no, no, no. 98 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:15,080 OK, it's in making Make It miniatures, so that's cool. 99 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,880 We've already seen some pictures of the boxes I shared those in 100 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,840 our newsletter for. Those aren't signed up. 101 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:21,200 Space. Penguin dot, Inc. 102 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,320 What else? Two other FP related new 103 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:33,560 releases Monthly Issue #2. Forbidden Love and issue #3. 104 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,160 Beware the Ides of March. These both just went on sale 105 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,920 like 18 minutes ago, so I'm expecting my phone to start 106 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,960 blowing up with the Shopify noise here anytime there's. 107 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,040 I'll just say this, there's a donkey in this one and there's 108 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,640 Chariots in this one, and if you combine the two, you can have 109 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,600 donkeys and cherries. I mean, you can have horses with 110 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,160 the Chariots and stuff like that or? 111 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,280 Goats no donkey is definitely way better that. 112 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:03,640 Sounds it's going to be the slowest moving chariot known to 113 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:09,600 humans. So yeah, so that's that's FP 114 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,000 news. We're waiting on some physical 115 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,600 samples of the tokens and the maps for end times and as soon 116 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,240 as those are approved those will be kicked over. 117 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:25,040 So those will be arriving here in the next few weeks over in 118 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:29,360 Wales and will side of things, the hardcovers and the 119 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,360 softcovers and the war band book and everything else has landed. 120 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,840 So yeah, it's just a lot of, it's a lot of that time after 121 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,960 crowdfund or after, you know, after a campaign when every 122 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,360 you're just kind of waiting around on everything else to 123 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,600 land. So that's pretty cool. 124 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaking of stuff that has landed Seas of Sand by Sam 125 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,120 Sorensen. Like I said in the newsletter, 126 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,760 this week has arrived. And these are, these are also 127 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,760 gorgeous. Like beautiful, beautiful, 128 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:07,640 beautiful setting. These are all getting packed up. 129 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,720 Debbie's working on those right now. 130 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:15,240 Those should be going out in the post starting next week. 131 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:22,840 The Joy of figuring out how to make your backer kit interface 132 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:27,560 with your ship station, with your pirate ship, with your 133 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,720 everything behind the scenes. It's a lot of chicken wire and 134 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,600 super glue. It really is. 135 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,480 But we're learning a lot of stuff and doing a lot of 136 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,840 repeatable processes, so a lot of stuff is starting to happen a 137 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,440 lot quicker. Nice. 138 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:48,840 So and then Karen news that contract and we're hammering 139 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:54,760 that out right now, contract negotiations, it's just a lot of 140 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,880 back and forth and getting stuff laid in. 141 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:58,400 I'm getting some quotes for that. 142 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,720 The sign up is ready up for that. 143 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,360 Look at Karen, RPG2E on Kickstarter. 144 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:09,360 Everybody can sign up but this is a sample copy the that if I 145 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,440 had done for packs back in December. 146 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:18,960 So it's missing it's missing a bunch of Amanda Lee Frank Art 147 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,880 but there's it's just overall it's starting to feel good 148 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,040 starting to look good. We've got a couple of small 149 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,680 surprises with the the crowd fund for that one. 150 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:31,640 It's going to be pretty straightforward to be honest 151 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,440 with you. Like we're trying to keep it at 152 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,440 a price point that we feel is good. 153 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:41,840 That packs in a lot of what makes the box set a necessary 154 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,480 box set. We're issuing extraneous 155 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,160 material stuff like dice we're we're skipping dice on this one. 156 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,480 I know it's kind of weird but it's also at the same time it 157 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,200 gives us a chance to later if we want to do dice for a Cairn or 158 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,040 something like that or if you if I wants to do them like it's 159 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,400 that's just something else. We just feel like it. 160 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:08,880 It just, I don't know it makes, it makes for a more streamlined 161 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,280 box. And these days with the advent 162 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:18,600 of being able to use a dice roller inside a Discord or Roll 163 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,520 20 or Foundry or anything that you're using to run shoot, you 164 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,520 can have five or ten different ones on your phone at any given 165 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,760 time. I know I do still, you know. 166 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,960 So yeah, I do too. Yeah, sure. 167 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,760 So it's just one of those that it takes up space in in the box 168 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,520 and we want to pack it with more books in that box. 169 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,720 And then we do want to leave a little bit of space for you to 170 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,840 put few Jerseans and books and stuff like that that come out 171 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,760 for the Karen line in there. OK, I'm going to bring it for a 172 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:47,120 second. Got. 173 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,840 That got that beautiful Bruno Biseco cover on that right? 174 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,920 It's interesting, you know, we have been like along for the 175 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:03,080 ride through like the the birth and current life of SPI because 176 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,520 you came on the show was like several weeks before it 177 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,640 launched, the first time you ever came on the show. 178 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:12,800 Indeed. So you know I know that you said 179 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,280 that you were really like putting your head down of the 180 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:19,120 first like couple years of this like we're that was about it was 181 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,240 how long ago was that about a year ago less than. 182 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:26,200 We are approaching, so it was probably about a year a little 183 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:31,520 bit more ago that we were getting ready to like the doors 184 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,720 were getting ready to open. Then there was like a three 185 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,480 month delay. Some behind the scenes stuff 186 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,680 happened we so we actually opened started selling product 187 00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:44,720 in July of 2023. And how do you feel like now 188 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,440 that you're, I mean not quite a year, we've a few months in, but 189 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,760 like how are you feeling with like your benchmarks of where 190 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:59,440 you wanted to be we? Are well, plus, plus and minus a 191 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,880 lot of stuff. Originally, you know the plan 192 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:08,240 was just like avoiding crowd funds as much as possible. 193 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:13,360 And then through I blame Will ROM and he tricked me into it 194 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:19,520 with end times, mostly because it worked out with that 195 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:24,480 situation. So I amend all my previous 196 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:30,080 statements with don't do a crowd fund unless your stuff is ready 197 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:31,520 to go. So I mean that's one of the 198 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,000 kicks with with Karen is like the reason that it's been 199 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,400 delayed and that it's taking its time to get to the stage of 200 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:46,760 launch is we're giving Yohai and Derek and Adam time to get the 201 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,360 books done and Amanda and Bruno and everyone else to get the 202 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:55,880 things illustrated because we are consumers ourselves. 203 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,800 I mean, you can like, I got a bunch of stuff here. 204 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,320 Like, yeah, a lot of it I work on, but I do buy a bunch of 205 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:05,280 stuff because I like stuff. And one of the one of the worst 206 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,720 things is just is the wait. And you know, like I've been on 207 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,400 many, many, many, many, many many projects and have worked in 208 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,560 other spots. And one of the things that we 209 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:19,120 just want to avoid doing is making people wait any longer 210 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:24,480 than is strictly necessary. And in perfect world, the act of 211 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,640 creation would be funded somewhat and it would, it would 212 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:33,200 be, it would just be less stressful to get up every day 213 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,240 and work as an editor or work as a writer or work as an artist 214 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,960 and whatnot. So it's a balance and all those 215 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,840 things. So I'm taking a big lesson from 216 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,600 my friend Jared at Spearwitch. Don't use Kickstarter for cash, 217 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,200 use it for capital. So what we're going to be doing 218 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,960 is sure we're going to hit some numbers with Karen. 219 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,360 We we know it's an exciting, it's a big box. 220 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,360 People have been anticipating it for so long. 221 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,880 But one of the big things that we want to do is we want to make 222 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,360 sure that it goes to print and then when we print it that we 223 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,360 print enough copies so that we don't have to go back to 224 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,360 Kickstarter to do another another print run of that. 225 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,720 We just we just want to avoid having to do it because it 226 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,400 takes. Running a crowd fund campaign 227 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,160 just takes so much out of you. It's there's just physical, 228 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:29,320 mental, emotional upheaval every single step of the way as you're 229 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,360 going through it, it's, I mean you've got the basic number go 230 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,400 up and then what if number doesn't go up. 231 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,080 But behind the scenes, all of that, just all of the logistics 232 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:45,000 and stuff of landing multiple products in multiple continents, 233 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,680 you know, at at distributions for slash fulfillment centers 234 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,920 and everything out like that. I tell you guys, I just want to 235 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,960 do it once. I don't even want to do it once 236 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,400 to be honest with you. I just, I wish there was just 237 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,320 enough money to be. It was just like Google. 238 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:04,400 We print the thing we go. It is, it is the nature of 239 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:08,000 capital and the nature of consumerism and whatnot that 240 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,840 this is an option here. So we're going to use it, but I 241 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,760 don't want to do it. I don't want to have to do it 242 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:14,480 for the same thing more than once. 243 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,080 I feel like if we don't put forward some more of that money 244 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,840 into printing a bunch of extra copies that we can then use the 245 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,000 profits from that to print more copies etcetera. 246 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,240 We know it's like the old anti drug commercial. 247 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:34,080 I do more cocaine so I can work more hours, so I can make more 248 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,440 money so I can buy more cocaine, Right. 249 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,360 Except. Listen, if it works, it works, 250 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,280 you know. Right, so we've so we've 251 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,320 replaced we've replaced cocaine with role-playing games. 252 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,640 There you go. So the the the post pandemic 253 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,320 crowdfunding scene is different too. 254 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,480 So I've I've, I've, I've backed a lot of projects. 255 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,920 It's because I like to support any creators. 256 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,840 Not only am I enthusiast but also a collector. 257 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,320 You know like if I if I find some of these stuff I like and 258 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,320 who I like you know I'll try to snatch it all up. 259 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,560 You know because I like to support the people who you know 260 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,720 give me the dopamine that I so crave. 261 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,760 But it it's an interesting shift that I've noticed pre pandemic 262 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,720 and post Pandemic. And I think that this especially 263 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,800 you know we've talked about this last time you were on about not 264 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,880 having a bunch of bits and bobs and bullshit in the Kickstarter 265 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,600 stuff. Like I notice fewer campaigns 266 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,200 having dice and tokens and stickers and all this other 267 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,200 stuff. I think logistically, not only 268 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:44,360 does it increase the cost of the final distribution, but I can 269 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:49,400 only imagine it increases like the deering project like thing. 270 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,760 Like not only is it cost more to make those things, but those 271 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,320 things have to be shipped somewhere so that they can all 272 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,720 be put in a box. And you know when Kickstarter's 273 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:01,080 also already such a massive headache when you have to not 274 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,119 only just like have like here's a Zine, here's APDF. 275 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,160 Like, I really just have to send you the Zine, but you have to 276 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:13,440 get 50 pieces together in a box. I mean the logistics behind all 277 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,960 of that, the increased costs and as costs increase every month, 278 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,680 every year and year and year, you have a lot of projects that 279 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,720 are looking back. You know, two years ago they 280 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,160 collected shipping but something got delayed and now they 281 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,200 realized they haven't raised enough money for shipping 282 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,640 because shipping has gone up in two years. 283 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,280 So it it's such a good idea. And as a backer who's backed a 284 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,360 lot of projects, I have enough fucking dice. 285 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,320 Like, I have all of those things. 286 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:42,040 Like I really just want the product when I'm excited to, or 287 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,160 I want the game or the adventure, whatever, while I'm 288 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,320 excited for the game or the adventure, not three years 289 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,160 later. So if anything that would get 290 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:57,160 the thing to people sooner than having to wait is such a 291 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,680 blessing when you can actually get it. 292 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,440 As opposed to, like you said, I don't want to wait six months so 293 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,320 you can like get a dice mold made. 294 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:05,720 Like I just really, I just don't. 295 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,280 So it's really nice to hear that. 296 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,280 And obviously Karen is going to be huge. 297 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,440 It's already currently huge and a 2E with yo. 298 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:15,840 Hi. And I know, I know that they're 299 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:21,280 also working on Beyond the Pale right now, but really excited 300 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,800 for Kim to come out and excited to hear that all the ducks are 301 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,080 in a row before this thing that's obviously going to blow 302 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,920 up, you know, has the button pressed on it. 303 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,120 We hope. We hope so. 304 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,240 Like a lot of my mornings are, a lot of my mornings are getting 305 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,160 up pretty early to get work with printing partners and find out 306 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,120 stuff. And just I know that on the 307 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,680 creation side, because this is like slightly different for us. 308 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,000 Usually I'm involved in the creation side and in some way 309 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,800 shape or form and like developmental editing or editing 310 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,120 or coaching or just in something. 311 00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:04,000 In this case you know Yokai and Adam and Derek have been doing, 312 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,400 you know the the writing and the design and the editing of all 313 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,800 that and then constantly play testing and all the artists and 314 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,480 everything. Like it's been nice to be able 315 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:17,800 to just focus on to not have to wear every single hat or to not 316 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,200 have to wear multiple hats because my first love is and 317 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:27,120 always will be editing like it. I just I edited it did a read 318 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:32,360 through of Jordi's Salaam issue 1 the Spike of Dosku this 319 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:35,120 morning like I I'm super excited. 320 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:38,480 I just gave it full on like proofread like I love for fun. 321 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,560 Yes, I got out this morning and and and read and read and made 322 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,320 notes for two hours on APDF of Azine. 323 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:51,960 But it's nice to be able to just focus on doing the doing the 324 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,640 logistics and landing and learning like that's my biggest 325 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,600 thing is previously you know like a lot of jobs and a lot of 326 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,440 life and just existence whatever. 327 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,680 Overall everything I've moved on from situations because I'm not 328 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,160 learning. This is something we talked 329 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,960 about Hunter before we came on you. 330 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:15,520 When you're not improving a skill or you're learning 331 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,960 something new, IT just it becomes, it becomes kind of a 332 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,920 drag. And I can tell you this shifting 333 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,400 from. The freelance From behind the 334 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,600 scenes, from working for other people to working for myself or 335 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,880 for ourselves or whatever. It has been an eye opener. 336 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,640 Just learning all kinds of new stuff every single day and just 337 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,240 repeating to myself. Do the hard stuff, Do the hard 338 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,640 stuff. Do the hard stuff. 339 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,640 Because I I, I like the easy stuff and not that editing is in 340 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,480 particular easy, but it is something I've more practice at. 341 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,280 So international logistics is, you know as a new one, like it's 342 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,200 it's a it's a new one in the depths that I'm going to now, 343 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,480 you know working with getting fulfillment set up for 344 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,920 Australia, New Zealand, for Cairn, you know and stuff like 345 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,560 that. And talking with Modico about 346 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,240 getting the UK pledges and the EU pledges sent from France and 347 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,840 stuff like that, like it's all like it's a big massive ball of 348 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,160 like what the fuck is all this shed? 349 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,480 And then figuring out how it all works together. 350 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:29,680 So and then building repeatable processes, repeatable processes. 351 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:34,600 That is a very important step, being able to like replicate and 352 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,000 you know, expand. Also, I just wanted to say, you 353 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,320 know, Jared Crater, International Man of Mystery. 354 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,560 So you know. Not I'm not really that 355 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,400 mysterious I'm I got I just got a great I just got a great. 356 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:56,120 But no, I really, I really do am am enjoying getting everything 357 00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:01,360 done like in in learning how to do this like because eventually 358 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,840 I want to take what I've learned and refine our process and then 359 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,680 you know someday make the make that guide. 360 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,960 I think I've talked to to about it on the show before I touched 361 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:18,120 it on other on other shows back when I used to Co own a record 362 00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:21,400 label there was a book called Book Your Own Fucking Life and a 363 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,200 website called Book Your own fucking life.org and like it was 364 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,040 it was it was around the dawn of social media. 365 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,920 You know Myspace and the early days and stuff like that on 366 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,000 Facebook. But when it was still difficult 367 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,600 to book a tour and things like that on your own as an 368 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,920 independent band. And that book really, really, 369 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,640 really came in handy. And I think I kind of want to at 370 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:52,680 some point someday help curate a book that has all of what we do 371 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,800 and and all of, you know, like a a A4 Dummies book essentially. 372 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,880 Because I'll tell you what, I picked up Small Business for 373 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,520 Dummies, and there was about 25% of that book that I could use. 374 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,480 Because this is just it. All small business is just going 375 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,280 to be different. So maybe it won't be a book, 376 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:15,440 maybe it'll be a living document, a a, a wiki, so to 377 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,720 speak. But we'll see. 378 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:18,760 That's all in the future, I think. 379 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,120 Before I get to the point of teaching, yeah, I want to figure 380 00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:25,000 out if I know what the hell I'm doing first. 381 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,760 So work in progress. Just got to take on a pupil and 382 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,080 practice, you know what I mean? Just let them fuck up and you 383 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,920 can be like ah shouldn't have told them that you. 384 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:41,200 Know. But yeah, so not only are you 385 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:46,640 doing like Karen coming out obviously forbidden psalms 386 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,520 within the monthly through that, but a big part of space Penguin 387 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,360 too is distribution. Because I again, I'm back to 388 00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:57,800 many Kickstarters and I feel like half of them now I get to 389 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,400 the bottom and I look at like, oh, distributed by space. 390 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,240 Penguin Ink you're you guys are just snatching up all the stuff 391 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,560 and really being kind of like the go to for for distribution 392 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,760 or is that what you're trying to be or what's the goal with that? 393 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,000 Well, it's for, it's, it's for fulfillment, it's for 394 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,240 fulfillment. So there's a little bit of 395 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,320 difference between fulfillment and distribution. 396 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,160 Fulfillment is order fulfillment. 397 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,880 So you know helping doing our Kickstarter fulfillment and 398 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,080 fulfilling our orders and we you know we got Meat Castle as a 399 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,480 store. I'm working with 4020 guys 400 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,800 stations and you know working on getting their store. 401 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,960 I met up with Marco while we were back home and working on 402 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,120 just Marco, if you're listening, I'm just I'm saying in public 403 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:46,760 I'm going to make you make your own Shopify store or e-commerce 404 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,400 store at some point. So that's so that's order 405 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,200 fulfillment. Distribution is more We have a 406 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:58,600 distribution partner in ACD who we are listed in their catalogue 407 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,720 Maple Monthly. Which funny story about Maple 408 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,120 Monthly. This issues this month was 409 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:07,240 supposed to be the first issue where in the back it says Space 410 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,440 Penguin Ink and it has all their stuff in it. 411 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,160 And we got home from our trip and the cover made it, but the 412 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,360 innards didn't make it. You know because it's a state. 413 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:19,000 It's a staple bound catalog. The cover made it, the insides 414 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,040 didn't. So we don't now don't know. 415 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,400 We're hoping that maybe an extra copy will appear. 416 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,240 I can always just message someone there, but so yeah, 417 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,200 distribution is where we sell to a distributor and then the 418 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,600 distributor takes care of getting all of that out to you 419 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,880 know thousands of brick and mortar stores and stuff like 420 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,720 that. But yeah, we're that's something 421 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:47,560 that when it comes to order fulfillment for online stores, 422 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,880 for e-commerce situations, we already have it. 423 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,960 I mean like I'm sitting here in front of the in front of the 424 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,520 desk and then I've got the little printer over here and 425 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:02,680 it's it's rather simple for us to get into someone's back end 426 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,600 if if they've, if they've added us to it on Shopify specifically 427 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:13,000 and you know have all of the material here work comes in, we 428 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,800 print the shipping label, we pack it up but Debbie packs it 429 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,240 up. I don't pack it, I'm not allowed 430 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,400 to Debbie packs it up and then it hits the mail right. 431 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:24,200 But and we're starting to offer that and we're offering that 432 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,240 like we're working with Sam with Seas of sand, we're working with 433 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,880 beside at down in yon Gurnee for that. 434 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:42,000 We've got Shadow over Gloom Shire we've working with we're 435 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,560 we're working with. I mean we're just, yeah, we're 436 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,480 working with quite a few folks. We're handling a bunch of stuff 437 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,600 for Marco's spicy tuna, RPGs outsourced and some other stuff. 438 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,240 Yeah. So it's a It's a lot of. 439 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,080 Just a couple things. Mailing Yeah, yeah yeah. 440 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:06,640 But it's but it's pretty it's pretty easy for us to not easy 441 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,200 but it's it's pretty steady for us to control. 442 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,960 As in a lot of like the Kickstarter that we did for 443 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,000 Forbidden some end times was. It's going to be. 444 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,840 I think of it's almost evenly split between the backers that 445 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,320 we're shipping out here and the backers that Will's going to be 446 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,400 shipping out from the UK. Karen's going to be a lot bigger 447 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:28,960 obviously. There's just going to. 448 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,680 I feel, I feel like there's going to be a lot more. 449 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,480 So that's the real one where Debbie gets to see if she really 450 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,160 wants to just do it all the time because it's going to be 451 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:43,520 hopefully a thousands. Fingers crossed of orders and 452 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,400 obviously we'll be engaging with overseas fulfillment partners to 453 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,960 handle, you know, the rest of the world, EUUK, whatever. 454 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,920 But yeah, it's it's a relatively straightforward process for us 455 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,600 to be able to do and we can move stuff in and we can move stuff 456 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,560 out. It's also cool because if I 457 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,920 really ever want to build a box for it, I have so many different 458 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,880 boxes of books that I can. I mean, do you guys build box 459 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,240 sports, right? Yeah, yeah. 460 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:15,360 Regularly, yeah. Yeah. 461 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,960 Regularly, OK. Trust me, I get. 462 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,120 I get way too many boxes in my house on a regular fucking basis 463 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:28,320 where it's falling down. So talking, continuing about 464 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,440 fulfillment, how does that generally work? 465 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,440 Like obviously a space Penguin gets bigger and bigger and 466 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:34,600 bigger. You're going to have people 467 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,880 banging down your doors, but is it a lot of people reaching out? 468 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,760 Is it you reaching out a little bit of both. 469 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,320 Like if someone's like, hey, I really would like someone who 470 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:43,560 knows what the fuck they're doing. 471 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,000 Do they just like, you know what, what do they do and and 472 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,480 what do you do in the Vice versa? 473 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:50,600 Sure. A lot of the ones that we're 474 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:56,720 working on are folks who are overseas from US, so are EUUK, 475 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,440 Finland, Australia and whatnot, where it's cost prohibitive for 476 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,920 them to, well, it's not cost prohibitive, but it just it 477 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,800 costs more for them to ship out from their home country. 478 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,800 Whereas with the advent of easier to print from places like 479 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,880 Mixam Printing Center, USA, stuff like that where you can 480 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,800 print on multiple continents and get damn near the same product. 481 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:28,920 It just makes sense for creators to print and sell here or or 482 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,560 print and ship to us and then we ship that out. 483 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,160 So we so we're working with a lot of folks and like I said not 484 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,880 in the US and then with seas of sand. 485 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,480 Like I've worked for years off and on with Sam editing other 486 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,600 stuff And then when I was at exalted funeral I, you know we 487 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:54,840 published his The Big Wet there, which by all by if you all don't 488 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,320 know the big Wet, the Big Wet, I'm sure you do know the Big 489 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:58,040 Wet. It's good. 490 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,400 It's it's mothership, but it's water world. 491 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,680 But it's also like the deluge. Plus, I don't know Noah's Ark 492 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,320 and stuff like that but without the weird creationism stuff, you 493 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,000 know. Yeah, it's a it's a fun it's a 494 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:18,600 fun it's a fun cool module. Anyway, so yeah, like I said, 495 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,280 primarily working with folks overseas. 496 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,000 Some people have reached out to us. 497 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,840 Some people have seen me reach out on in certain spaces. 498 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,920 Some people I have reached out to a couple of the people and 499 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,800 just been like, hey, I know that you're probably going to print 500 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,520 that at Mxam. What would you think about 501 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,800 printing it for you know at Mxam, US shipping to us, you 502 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:45,360 know landing it here with us. We have the the whole process of 503 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,160 the we know which mailers to use. 504 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,800 We know that the bubble wrap, we know down to the down to the 505 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,280 penny like how much the bubble wrap in the tape cost and stuff 506 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,400 like that. So we can offer a really 507 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,560 inexpensive rate. You know, it's it's a couple 508 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,720 bucks for like most Zing kick starters. 509 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,200 It's pretty straightforward. And then larger stuff that has 510 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,720 like more skews, obviously, we'll negotiate, We'll talk, you 511 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,200 know, it might be 3 bucks or it might be 4 bucks if you've got 512 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,880 big old stuff. You know, some stuff like the 513 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,960 greenhorns, there's going to be posters for that. 514 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,400 So those, those posters are going to be rolled up in tubes. 515 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:24,200 Those are a separate, right. I know, I know Marco is very 516 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,600 Marco. Marco is very insistent with 517 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,320 tubes. And Debbie agrees. 518 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:33,160 And I'm, I'm 100% down, but that's going to be a separate 519 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,160 mailing so that you know the posters will come in tubes and 520 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:42,800 you know again like it's just, I don't know, I, I we just really 521 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,840 like what we do. I think is what it is. 522 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:50,280 So that's why it seems like it's easy or it's and I know it's not 523 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,560 easy but it just seems it's just fun. 524 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:58,520 I I I enjoy this work that I do. I enjoy, you know, even though 525 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,800 sometimes days are 16 and 18 hours long and sometimes you 526 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,760 work seven days a week, like we were on trip and I still worked 527 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:12,320 for at least two or three hours every day, it's still way more 528 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,680 rewarding than any restaurant job I ever had. 529 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,600 And I had a lot of restaurant jobs and I had some really good 530 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,440 restaurant jobs that were really cool and I made a lot of money 531 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,320 and I had a lot of freedom and different stuff, you know, But 532 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,760 this is just, this is just way more fun. 533 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,920 So I mean, because I get, I get cool shit like this all the 534 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,640 time, you know, like, whereas, you know, in a restaurant, what 535 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,800 do I get? I get a quesadilla or something, 536 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,280 you know, Although quesadilla sound pretty good for lunch, 537 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,040 There's that AD, There's that ADHD kicking in. 538 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,840 There we go the first time on the show today. 539 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,360 So do you think, I mean, Speaking of to like having such 540 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,280 long days, like are you, I mean The thing is it's, it's fine 541 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,560 because you're really only like 7:00-ish months in, but like 542 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,800 there's just already so much going on. 543 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,640 But like, is there any plan to like expand like your staff 544 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,760 beyond just like your crew that you have now? 545 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,120 Yeah. So right now it's, I'm on the 546 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,200 front end of, you know, editing and logistics and creation and a 547 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,680 lot of, you know, the numbers and the math and whatnot. 548 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,160 And then Debbie's on the back end with obviously oversight of 549 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,600 everything I do. So like. 550 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:26,880 You can't be left to your advices. 551 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,880 Exactly. And then she handles all of the 552 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,040 of the packing and the shipping and stuff like that like and and 553 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,120 then we have Dai Sugars who handles our marketing and AD 554 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:42,280 creations and then we have we have I mean we have coaches you 555 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:47,600 know Adam this Gage like coaches me with how to run SCO and stuff 556 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,040 like that. Adam's like he's plugged for 557 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,840 Adam. He's working on his own 558 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,680 marketing company and I'll get him to get on your show at some 559 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,200 point too. Unless he has might know Adam. 560 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,960 But anyway, if not I'll go because he's got a lot of skills 561 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,800 that he's learned from his other jobs that he wants to share with 562 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,679 folks You know like how to how to do a better marketing like 563 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,239 it's a it's a necessary evil. So that's kind of where we're at 564 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,120 like stabbing wise now and then we all of course have a shit ton 565 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,480 of freelancers you know folks that we work with, folks who are 566 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,840 working on projects with and other folks and stuff like that. 567 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,239 But for the for the current time, right now we're we're 568 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,440 keeping it pretty tight and part of the way that we can keep it 569 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:37,560 pretty tight is we have learned to say no, it's hard. 570 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,920 I don't ever want to say no, I don't ever want to say no. 571 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,880 I want to do all the projects, but at the end of the day I 572 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,800 can't do all the projects and I can't be strung out and worn out 573 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,560 and dead and burnt out because I keep saying yes. 574 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,159 So it's just being open and honest communications with 575 00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:58,800 partners and stuff like that as you're as you're working through 576 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,840 stuff and just straight up saying cool, I really like your 577 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,040 idea. We can't actually act on this 578 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,040 for X amount of time or until X date. 579 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,360 I just, you know, it's it's really hard to say no. 580 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,440 It's hard to retroactively say no. 581 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,640 But it's one of the things you just have to you just have to 582 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,560 set the boundaries or you just find yourself. 583 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,440 You just you'll grind yourself down, you know the bastards 584 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,760 won't do it for you though. You'll just grind yourself 585 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,720 completely out of any sort of enjoyment of the thing and 586 00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:34,800 that's the kick. And like you just really want 587 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,840 to. I I really want to keep enjoying 588 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,480 what I do. You know, I really want to be 589 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,000 able to say out loud awesome. Today was great. 590 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,800 You know, something like that? I mean that's important. 591 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:52,800 I mean especially when you like it's always important to do the 592 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,080 thing that you love to do and but it's especially important 593 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,360 when it's also the thing that like pays your bills. 594 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,400 You know, like it's it's 16 to 18 hour days for a thing that 595 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,720 you hate is, is it going to do exactly what you're saying is 596 00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:07,840 just going to grind you into pieces almost instantly? 597 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,200 I mean that's literally the world we live in and the reason 598 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:12,720 a lot of people are the way they are right now. 599 00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:15,520 But being able to do something creative like you said, that 600 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,680 like you enjoy, makes those 16 to 18 hours, seven days a week, 601 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:26,280 days I assume tolerable, if not always enjoyable, but also 602 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,440 having that vision of of progression and moving forward 603 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:35,720 with it as well. Yeah, we're moving to we're 604 00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:38,520 working on some board games. I've been working on a board 605 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:44,200 game of my own creation Kill called Kill the Wizard for it'll 606 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:51,000 be, I'm calling it's birthday Gary Kahn because I took the I 607 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:56,760 started talking about it at Gary Kahn 2022 with Andrew Bellary 608 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,680 and really wanting to like fire it up and kick it off, you know? 609 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:07,320 And at that point I'd had most of a most of a draft and then we 610 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,920 really laid into it over the course of the next year. 611 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:16,560 And then last year at Gary Conn I took a a a early early, early 612 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,360 prototype. It was hideous. 613 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,640 It was ugly. It did not look good. 614 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,880 The guards were it. Whatever it was, it was Jank. 615 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,880 But I took it there and I discussed it with Andrew and 616 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,800 Justin Sirois and a few other people have been dug in a bunch 617 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,960 of other you know folks and we Tom, we we just kind of beat it 618 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,360 up and it was not in a playable state last year. 619 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,800 Andrew came up or drove, you know, came down and stayed. 620 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,720 And we spent three days really intense. 621 00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:50,920 And David Hoskins joined us. And between the two of them and 622 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,400 Debbie and I, we really, really we we broke the game and we 623 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,120 fixed the game. And then it's now several months 624 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,720 on from that and I have yay. I have finished the draft of the 625 00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:07,000 rules, the drafters rules. Luke Gearing is looking at it 626 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,200 right now. I'm waiting anxiously for him to 627 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,080 tell me how awful it is because I know Luke likes to play a lot 628 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,880 of board games similar to the kind of board games that I play. 629 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,960 Also, it's funny to switch writer and editor roles with 630 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,680 him. We've not really done that 631 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:27,920 before, but it's kind of neat. I have, you know, big steps. 632 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,880 With that, I have ordered a physical prototype from The Game 633 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,400 Crafter. I was really, really, really 634 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:38,160 hoping that I would be here on March 21st, the day I leave to 635 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:39,320 go to Gary Con. But guess what? 636 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,800 It's going to ship on March 21st, so I might have to take my 637 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,400 janky DIY homemade prototype version #2, but I'm taking a 638 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,320 version of the game to Gary Kahn this year to actually meet the 639 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,560 public, to talk to the public. And same thing. 640 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,120 We're talking with our friends David and Jackson about David's 641 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,000 game Cutthroat Fruit Merchants. It's got art by Skull Boy Sam 642 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,720 O'Malley. The sliger looks great. 643 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,800 That one is So Kill the Wizard is the dudes on the map. 644 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,600 Cutthroat Fruit Merchants is a worker placement economic SIM. 645 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,560 Plus it's got pirates and it's great. 646 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,120 It's got great Sam Art. So that one has that one went 647 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,840 out with us this week and met people in real life and met it. 648 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,360 It met non gamers and non game designers on our end for the 649 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,800 first time I think. I think the creators have run it 650 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:39,160 up against non non designers. I guess you know real humans. 651 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,040 The game designers aren't real humans. 652 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,640 Let's just be honest, we're not real. 653 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,320 So Cut Fruit Merchants is in the works. 654 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,240 Debbie and I have a board game called Penguin Adventures that 655 00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:57,400 is also in the works too. So we're it's so we're not just 656 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,600 doing books. We're also doing board games. 657 00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:03,040 I'm working with a couple of different people and working 658 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:09,480 with Child clips, Brandon you on a deck of cards for solo play 659 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,560 generation. And Brandon's right now, he's 660 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,840 working through iterations of what the process is going to be 661 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,960 for illustrating and writing these and like he's playing. 662 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,320 I don't know if you all follow Brandon's part. 663 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,280 Stuff and plus, but his process is just amazing and he documents 664 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,400 everything and he's really, really, really into solo RPGs. 665 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,520 And so that's what this is for. We've got a deck of cards, a 666 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,880 deck coming up for Mothership and some other stuff, you know, 667 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,480 in the future. Third party stuff. 668 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,160 Yeah, we're just kind of doing a lot of different things. 669 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,200 We're staying away from the dice side of things for now just 670 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,400 because like I love dice and they're cool, but I just feel 671 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,880 like it's another whole realm, you know? 672 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,680 But I think with I mean there will be, Oh yeah, there will be 673 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,880 dice in the board game, obviously, because you need dice 674 00:40:58,880 --> 00:40:59,840 in the board game. But guess what? 675 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:04,440 They're going to be D sixes. Makes sense, straightforward, 676 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,360 and they probably won't, They're just going to be D sixes. 677 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,960 I think they won't have any little special stuff on them. 678 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:17,400 So, but it overall just, it's super straightforward. 679 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,080 We're working towards games, we're working towards cards, so 680 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,040 diversifying a little bit. We'll always keep making books 681 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,800 because I feel like I know a lot about making books and I'm still 682 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,400 learning new stuff about making books and working with different 683 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,560 printers and stuff like that. But I feel like we've got a 684 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,920 pretty reasonable handle on the process that one takes to get 685 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,920 there. So yeah, learning how to do 686 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,520 board games. And then, you know, I'm also 687 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,560 gleaning a little bit about apps and stuff like this and, you 688 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,080 know, digital, digital accoutrement and all that stuff. 689 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,280 So I don't know. I guess that helps keep it 690 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,280 interesting. I don't even know why we're 691 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,800 talking about this. The HD this Pi is a We're gonna 692 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,720 talk about it. Yeah, and we gone to board games 693 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,440 and yeah, we got there. So, so why? 694 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,560 I mean, obviously like you are a board game enthusiast, you're 695 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:11,720 obviously making your own board game, but outside of of your own 696 00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:16,120 board game, is that going to be like a division within SPI? 697 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,240 Do you guys want to be like indie? 698 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,480 You know, game like books and games and adventures and board 699 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:28,480 games and cards and and bops. I think it's whatever is 700 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,400 relevant and whatever makes the most sense per project. 701 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,600 So will we always want to keep our board game or to cooking 702 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,600 somewhere in there? Yes, but right now we're 703 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,520 sticking with Kill the Wizard, Penguin Adventures and Cutthroat 704 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,760 food Merchants. That's our focus as far as board 705 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,720 games go. If one of those gets to 706 00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:53,160 completion and fruition, that does not necessarily mean that 707 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,360 we want the next one in that line. 708 00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:02,400 We might but it's that's the same thing with all with all the 709 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:07,600 RPG books like you know we've I get a lot of folks like I've 710 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,920 just I've been lucky enough to work with a lot of people over 711 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,640 the years and I get when I get a chance to actually work with 712 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:20,840 someone on a project and and all the way through like it's it's 713 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,680 not like Will's different forbidden some like that's a 714 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,640 line that's kind of we've been building that together for a bit 715 00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:31,840 He's luckily had me out you know thankfully had me on. 716 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:37,200 But as far as most of the rest of it goes like it's kind of on 717 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:42,640 a per project basis it's it's not like constantly you have to 718 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,800 have something in in the chute for this system or that system 719 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,680 or whatever it's kind of whatever. 720 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,880 My flighty ass brain says this might be really cool and we 721 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:57,600 should totally do this you know it's like right now we've got at 722 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,120 the meet Oh yeah we get other previews of stuff that's coming 723 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,840 up in the next couple of months. We've got at the Meetings of 724 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,520 Madness, which is an MCC third party coming up. 725 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,240 They got the OK from Joseph Goodman the other day. 726 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:13,640 So talking to Stella this afternoon, and that one's going 727 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,800 to go to print pretty soon. We've got Resonant by Amanda P, 728 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,360 featuring art by Tony Tran, designed by Die Sugars, editing 729 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,680 by myself and a slew of other people. 730 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,520 That's for Mothership. That's the third party. 731 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,240 That one's going to be going to print very shortly, too. 732 00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:33,040 We've got Charlotte's Daily Daisy Chainsaw coming up, which 733 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,120 is for us. It's a system and we haven't 734 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,920 really done a lot of systems yet aside from for Ben Thumb. 735 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,240 So I'm interested to see how that goes. 736 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,200 The the common tank is systems always sell better than modules 737 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,520 because you know people want to buy the system because they want 738 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,920 to buy the thing and then if you have the module with the system 739 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,360 then you're more likely to sell the module as well. 740 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:01,160 And we've kind of purposefully since day one been like no we're 741 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,320 just doing those except for again like you know the skirmish 742 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,920 system of forbidden Psalm. So we're we're we're trying that 743 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:09,640 out. We've got another one 744 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,560 partnership with Neon Rock coming up for all pie sluggers. 745 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:20,480 It's it's weird 22 magical girls based games in the short span in 746 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,640 this early year or in this early part of this year. 747 00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:31,680 So yeah, I don't know it's just it's I don't even know sorry 748 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:37,520 train of thought it, it won't necessarily be like we have to 749 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,960 do any particular thing for any system or that we have to have a 750 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,240 system looking in. That's the, I think that's the 751 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:49,400 one part of me that will always remain unbusinesslike. 752 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:57,320 I I'm not looking at projects as, oh cool, we're going to make 753 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,080 this money off this and that, blah blah blah blah blah. 754 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,840 You know, like I'm looking at it because I'm actively interested 755 00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:06,520 in playing and and running the system. 756 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,960 You know, when Yohai came to us with Karen, I was just like, 757 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,440 hell, yeah, because I love Karen. 758 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,040 Because, I mean, I've been playing into the odds since like 759 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,080 back in the day. Like the the, the OG soft cover 760 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,840 print from Lost Pages that Chris put out first. 761 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:22,600 Still one of my prized possessions. 762 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,720 And you will not get that from me, you know what I'm saying? 763 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,760 Plus, it's got all tons of my own pencil Marks and stuff like 764 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,480 that. The iron coral like is I've run 765 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,840 that thing so many times and so to get to work with like Yohai 766 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,080 on Cairn and then we're handling fulfillment for Ruin. 767 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,440 Karen Ward Saga, you know previously when I was at VDF 768 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,440 helped get that printed and published and stuff like that 769 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:49,800 with Colin and stuff. So it's it's less about, it's 770 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,800 less about like oh we've got to do this because we've got to do 771 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:53,840 this. Oh look at that. 772 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:58,440 Like is that one of the O GS? I think it's APOD. 773 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,960 Yeah, mine might be a POD too, but mine looks a little less 774 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,400 glossy. But I I love that book. 775 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,560 Oh, I think it's great. So getting to work you know with 776 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,920 these folks like it's it's just it's fun and getting to do 777 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,600 getting to do individual products projects here and there 778 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,960 and stuff like that like sure at the end of the day I I want to 779 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:25,840 be you know Texas oil Baron feed up on the desk by sell trade 780 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,360 like who doesn't want to do that and stuff but I I don't know if 781 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,760 I'll I'll ever get to that Like we're not we're not going to 782 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:38,920 grow for growth's sake you know like we're we're we're 100% yeah 783 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,880 we want to make money doing this because it's you you have to to 784 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,320 survive like I just like that that's what we're doing but the 785 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,520 money isn't the end all be all at the at the end of the day 786 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,280 it's to be cool to be still did we make cool weird shit at the 787 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,480 you know is this do I feel good about having it on the shelf so. 788 00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:01,680 Yeah, I mean a couple things with that. 789 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,560 And then I wanted to I had another question about board 790 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,120 games. But like being able to have the 791 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:12,800 connections, expertise, talent and and and movement in a 792 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,200 company, to be able to say exactly that. 793 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,480 Like I'm not making this thing just to make money. 794 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,160 I'm making this think of that's fucking cool and the fact that I 795 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,440 can make money from it is great, but that also means that I can 796 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,520 just make more fucking cool shit is for a creative. 797 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:30,240 I can only imagine like the, the, hopefully the goal, because 798 00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:33,240 if you're just making money for money's sake, then I don't feel 799 00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:37,080 like this is the space to be in if you're not wattsy. 800 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:42,440 But so it's it's it's nice. I mean, obviously we know you 801 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,040 and it's nice to know that that's the direction SPI is 802 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,760 going in that like you can always just expect cool shit 803 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,480 because it's cool shit. Not just because this is the 804 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,240 next one that might make a bunch of money. 805 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:57,720 A question about board games, though. 806 00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:01,360 So like you're talking about developing and putting out board 807 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,680 games. Do you imagine SPI ever being 808 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:09,680 like a like carrying established board games already, like having 809 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,840 that brand to the side? Or is it mostly going to be like 810 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,480 the things that aren't necessarily scenes in books that 811 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,640 are like cards or award games or not? 812 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,840 Are those primarily going to be things that are developed within 813 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,920 SPI or carried like cards for things that have been developed 814 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,920 for like Mothership, which obviously you have a 815 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,120 relationship with? Is it primarily going to be that 816 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,000 or you're going to carry like, you know, a bunch of like the 817 00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:34,760 Thursday, Thursday night game stuff or Tuesday night game 818 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,280 stuff? I'm on on there as well. 819 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,760 I'm repping the shirt. This is one of my one of my 3 820 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,320 mothership shirts. This is a staff. 821 00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,480 This is Tuesday night game staff shirt. 822 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,640 It's that Sean gave us a one of the gym calls that's got Dave on 823 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,360 the back. Dave. 824 00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,080 Dave is the astronaut. I know his name's not Dave, but 825 00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:51,880 it's Dave. It's Dave. 826 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,320 It's funny Dave. Sean hates that shit. 827 00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:00,000 Like much like I hate, like I hate the non acronym that 828 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,320 GEARING created for mothership. Don't say it. 829 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:08,960 Don't say it, don't say it. Will we carry other board games 830 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,960 and stuff like that? Probably not. 831 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:17,480 Just kind of like most of the the stuff that all of the stuff 832 00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,640 that we've put out that you can get on our store, like I've had 833 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,440 a direct hand and the creation of whether it was coaching 834 00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,360 through the Kickstarter or developmental editing or some 835 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,480 sort of you know just early feedback process and stuff like 836 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,800 that. Like I'm it's stuff that I'm 837 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,240 avidly interested in and and and working in. 838 00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:40,960 You know, like I would I I'm not just putting stuff out just 839 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,040 because I want to you know put stuff out. 840 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:49,160 So will we carry other RPGs or board games and card games and 841 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,440 stuff like that? Not only if I, you know, if I 842 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:57,040 put my, my grubby fingers in that, if the creator is cool 843 00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,080 with me being, like cool, but have you thought about this? 844 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,560 And it's not me being just like some sort of tastemaker or 845 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,720 elitist or something and saying that, oh, it's only good if I've 846 00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:08,360 got my hands on it. It's just what it's just what I 847 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:13,200 want to do to set us apart from other publishers and other shops 848 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,400 and stuff like that. You know, like we're not trying 849 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:20,080 to be like all to everything. That's why our growth is going 850 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,600 to be slower. Like it's going to be more 851 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:28,240 tedious because I don't know, I just, I I'm not in a rush. 852 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,920 You know, I think previously in life, at other jobs and stuff 853 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,600 like that, I've just always been in a rush, a rush, a rush, a 854 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:39,120 rush, a rush. And these days, like half the 855 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:43,000 day, sure, you know, I feel like blah, blah, blah, I get all this 856 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:44,480 done. But then, you know, by the 857 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,160 afternoon, I'm just like, oh, OK, I've done got a lot of stuff 858 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:49,280 done. Cool. 859 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,120 I can get in here now and I can start working on stuff and 860 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,640 having a little bit more relaxed time doing it. 861 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:03,320 And so that my really super true love is board games. 862 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,800 Like, I don't, I don't don't know why. 863 00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,120 I think it's because I played board games before I started 864 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:12,680 playing like RPGs and stuff. So I'll always, I'll always go 865 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:17,040 back to that. So yeah, eventually probably 866 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,360 I'll have the sequel to Kill the Wizard. 867 00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:25,240 So might have more robots. That really helps make the 868 00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:27,760 difference between because there's a stark contrast not 869 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,720 saying that one is better or worse than the other, but 870 00:52:29,720 --> 00:52:32,200 there's a big difference between shops and like presses and 871 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,880 publishers. And I. 872 00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,040 You know when you look at things like obviously the direction SPI 873 00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,840 is going, but if you look at some of the games omnivorous and 874 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,880 stuff like that, there's a personality, there's a 875 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,240 consistency to a type of creativity that really draws 876 00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:47,280 people. And I think it's really 877 00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,680 important with presses and publishers and stuff like that, 878 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,600 like especially in the indie scene, like to to have that kind 879 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,880 of sense of personality. A lot of the indie a lot of 880 00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:01,600 TRPGS especially in in this area are somewhat cult of personality 881 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,760 a little bit or at least people like Latch on. 882 00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,800 And if you're going to be a press or a publisher clearly you 883 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,240 know if your fingers are in everything people have a level 884 00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:15,320 of consistency that they can expect from it. 885 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,000 They know what a Jared Crater book feels like or what a Jared 886 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,480 Crater board game looks like or what SPI and like the you know 887 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,360 stable of creatives that you've built up around. 888 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,440 So that's super important. I, you know, I that's the answer 889 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,600 that I really love that I wanted to hear. 890 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,160 Like, yes, we're only going to put out stuff that that we do 891 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,200 because we like the stuff that you put out. 892 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,560 Like if I can always just go to a shop, you know or you know 893 00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,160 places that used to be presses, publishers that are becoming 894 00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:47,440 shops to to buy the things that that I want. 895 00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,240 But you know, if I want something from Space Penguin, 896 00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:52,720 it's nice to know that I'm I'm getting something from Space 897 00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:55,680 Penguin. Yeah, the crafty side is still 898 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,000 always going to be our thing. Like all, all of our every 899 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,240 single package that goes out has like a stamp. 900 00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:05,040 Like Debbie has these little essentially print block stamps 901 00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:09,480 that like the seas of sand. There's the worm goes on the 902 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,160 seas of sand, the forbidden Psalm skull goes on the 903 00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,040 forbidden Psalm 1, there'll be one on the Cairn boxes and 904 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:16,280 stuff. So all of the boxes that come 905 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,800 out of here, there will always be that human touch, that 906 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,800 personal aspect to it. And that's really what we're 907 00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,400 trying to do, just trying to keep it. 908 00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:28,880 I don't know, like there's something to be said for it to 909 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,360 be like much larger and things like that. 910 00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:38,120 But I feel like I spent a lot of my life working for other people 911 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,520 and other people's things and other people's dreams. 912 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,040 I guess, like, you know, when in previous lives or just in lives 913 00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:48,960 working with in this business. And I'm now at the point where I 914 00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:53,600 don't have to you know, like I'm I'm not going to go out and find 915 00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:57,600 these like like big name IPS and things like that to do with a 916 00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,400 game around. Like I'd rather just do my own 917 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,200 game, you know, will I make a lot less money? 918 00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,880 Hell yeah I will. But also it will be mine at the 919 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,320 end of the day. I I can say that you know, where 920 00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,320 I'll have the sense of ownership that goes with it. 921 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,000 At the end of the day like you said you know like if you're 922 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,840 wansi or if you want to really make money at this like you can 923 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:26,320 churn out stuff for the next larger for the big large systems 924 00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:30,120 like awesome you know that's cool and we do stuff for systems 925 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:34,680 that have you know licenses open and closed and stuff like that 926 00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:36,840 and like we love to support the other things. 927 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,720 But I think The thing is is that we love to support like systems 928 00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:45,680 that I that I either I am specifically have hand in or 929 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:50,760 just you know when it comes to DCCMCC like I just love DCC like 930 00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:55,200 I think in DCC all the time every day and that brings me to 931 00:55:55,200 --> 00:56:00,240 1 tiny little one. We also do things to where we're 932 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:05,440 we have a module coming up later on probably first half this year 933 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:12,360 called Cobra Express and it's written by Sam Kemp, art by 934 00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,960 Jacori Holder designed by Christian Kessler. 935 00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:17,880 I'm doing editing stuff like that and Sam. 936 00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:22,560 So Sam is like a pro DM, like run like runs like 5E games and 937 00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:26,080 things like that, you know, public play for events and 938 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,840 stuff. And we're working with him and 939 00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,240 we're translating that into as well. 940 00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:37,000 So it's going to be AD and D book, but in the column next to 941 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:38,880 it, it's going to have the DCC stats. 942 00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,440 So it's going to be useful for both of them. 943 00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,840 So like if you look at like the stuff that like Goodman Games 944 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:47,080 does where they have like the DCC line, the 5E line and 945 00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,920 they're starting to get those where they have both versions of 946 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:51,520 it. So we're we're going to we're 947 00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:55,200 attempting this is our this is an attempt we're seeing how it 948 00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,800 goes putting this together in one book you know and Sam's got 949 00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,600 like three more planned out and guess what the first one is a 950 00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:05,240 train heist boom railroads. I love them. 951 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,320 I don't care what anybody says I love my I love them to be a good 952 00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:12,160 railroad funnel. So it's kind of a a a hybrid of 953 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,480 you know, 5E but with some funneling aspects. 954 00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,520 And then and then DCC just to just to see what happens, 955 00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:25,080 because I want to see if there's a is is AI really feel like 956 00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:29,360 there's I feel like there's a market like there's a way to way 957 00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,920 to get folks who are perhaps familiar with one system who 958 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:34,080 want to be familiar with the other one. 959 00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,560 And it could go both ways. There are folks who play DCC and 960 00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:41,560 run DCC probably most religiously, who might be in a 961 00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,000 geographical area, they might relocate and they move and they 962 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,440 just can't get anybody to play anything 5E related. 963 00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,560 So here's this module that's in DCC. 964 00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:55,280 That's something they know and then they can quickly learn 5E 965 00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,400 and then boom, and then that there might be enough aspect, 966 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,080 you know, because each system has its own little tweaks that 967 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,800 make it. If if it's written in that way 968 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,600 that that make it, you know, I'm thinking and looking at you like 969 00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:11,680 Fortitude says, you know, that can really be like great, great. 970 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:16,400 Just the saves in DCC are great equalizers as far as like it, it 971 00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,680 makes that's what makes part of it what makes that system really 972 00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,600 great in and of itself that it doesn't just, you know it 973 00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,720 separates it from being just another D&D alike. 974 00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,280 So, yeah, So we're doing that one. 975 00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,440 So that's kind of neat. So can we expect all of the 976 00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,560 regular Wattsy 5 e-books on Space Penguin in the future as 977 00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,040 well? You're so evil. 978 00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,720 Hey, it's Creative Commons basically now, right? 979 00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,840 We can do it, everyone with it. You know, I think there is 980 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:51,240 there's an interesting market for, for for braid products. 981 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:54,400 Kristin said that in the chat. But it's true. 982 00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,000 There's there's some interesting games that have come out that I 983 00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,480 feel are nice bridges and and I said this recently and we're 984 00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:02,960 going to tangent into a direction that we probably don't 985 00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:04,880 need to but whatever. We got that tangent. 986 00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,440 Listen I'm over my hatred of 5E. It is behind me. 987 00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:13,040 I just here's the thing if people if people like that style 988 00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:17,960 of play I and they enjoy it. Please, all the power to you. 989 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:23,160 I just want people to if they like this out of play and they 990 00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:27,120 know that there are others and still go back to that go for it. 991 00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:31,000 My issue is just like people that think that that is the only 992 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,600 one or have no interest in getting another one and my so of 993 00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,960 course we all randomly think so. My shower thoughts have been 994 00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:40,280 like when we were in college we all knew more than one drinking 995 00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:45,600 game when we were kids or even now we all know 50 different 996 00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:47,320 board games we all know how to play. 997 00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:48,760 Sorry we all know how to play Monopoly. 998 00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:53,760 So anyone that says that they don't have time to learn another 999 00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,280 game or don't want to, it's just like that's to me feels 1000 00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,000 incredibly disingenuous because I can only imagine that there's 1001 00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:00,720 nothing in their life that they're like, well, I learned 1002 01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:02,120 one, I'm never going to learn another one. 1003 01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,600 So you know if if people like the storyteller style of of 1004 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,080 game, as long as they have at least experienced other ones and 1005 01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,000 go, Nope, I like that. I'm all for it. 1006 01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,080 But for those people that are branching out, I think something 1007 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,360 that is a bridge would be absolutely fantastic. 1008 01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:23,040 We even say it on the show. We don't cover 5V products here 1009 01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:26,720 on our show, but we're happy to cover stuff that's written for 1010 01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:31,000 two things a lot of people do OSE and 5V clearly cuz it's 1011 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:34,200 older edition, new edition. So doing something that's like 1012 01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:36,480 DCC, cuz I love OSC, OSC is great. 1013 01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:38,640 Eventually we'll talk about DCC on the show. 1014 01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:42,000 I think that'd be a great product to have, to be able to 1015 01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,520 take something that people know and shift it into something 1016 01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:51,440 that's a little bit more better. I don't know how to say it. 1017 01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:53,920 Subjective. Subjectively subjective. 1018 01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,000 Yeah, subjectively. Subjectively. 1019 01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:58,720 Subjectively, yeah. Yeah. 1020 01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:00,400 Let's throw some qualifiers on there. 1021 01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:02,760 But that sounds great. Well, the other thing too is I 1022 01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,960 really don't. You don't see a lot of DCC 5E 1023 01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:10,360 crossover stuff. I think most of what we see is 1024 01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,520 OSC and 5E. Not that aren't Goodman Games 1025 01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:14,760 products. I mean like CUZ. 1026 01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,560 I know Goodman Games obviously does a lot of the D&D and DCC 1027 01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:21,080 crossover stuff, but a lot of the third party stuff that I see 1028 01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,760 that's both has been OSC and 5E. So it'd be really interesting to 1029 01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:27,680 see DCC kinda jump off into a bigger direction or a different 1030 01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,600 direction. Speaking of OSC, I remembered 1031 01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:32,920 there's another who was over here on the side desk. 1032 01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,480 The Ghost of Zozana Mountain, which might get renamed to Ghost 1033 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:43,200 of Zozana by by Thomas Vaconin. He did Elder Oak, which helped 1034 01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:47,360 get done up at at EF One. I was there, he reached out to 1035 01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:51,600 me. I will tell you this, like, look 1036 01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,560 at that. Look at that. 1037 01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:58,920 Like, look at all the beauty. Like this is just a test print 1038 01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:03,120 of of what he's done thus far. But he's been he's been behind 1039 01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:04,840 the scenes, just working his ass off. 1040 01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:11,480 So this is all standard up for OSC and proofs. 1041 01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:17,880 There you go. Anyway, super excited to to that 1042 01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:21,000 I freeze. I think so. 1043 01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:27,120 I'm I'm frozen. That's not uncommon with Zoom 1044 01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,560 and my camera these days. Can you still hear me though? 1045 01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:32,960 Yeah, just paint us a word picture just to describe. 1046 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:35,200 So, so anyway it. Spread through. 1047 01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:40,440 Zozana Mountain It's a it's a Zozana is alive. 1048 01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,560 Spirit creatures flow and hiss through their caverns like blood 1049 01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:45,040 through veins. So it's a cavern crawl. 1050 01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:48,600 It's a it's a mountain crawl. Plus there's like part of the 1051 01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:52,600 city and all kinds of other brilliant and beautiful stuff. 1052 01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,320 Anyway, it's a very densely packed book, and this is going 1053 01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:59,640 to be one. This is There's also there will 1054 01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:02,800 be other ones. There is a Luke Gearing volume 1055 01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,840 called Warren Sepultured featuring art by Mez Tunes 1056 01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:10,280 designed by Eric Hill that is in the works right now. 1057 01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,400 I'm actually jumping here in a little bit to talk to Steve 1058 01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,080 about the art. For that, I'm working with 1059 01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,240 liminal horror guys, working with Goblin Archives and Josh 1060 01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:27,200 Demansky for the parthenogenesis of Hungry Hollow. 1061 01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,040 I have to. It's our work chat for that is 1062 01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,080 everybody's got a Hungry Hollow because I'm a big Springsteen 1063 01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:34,720 fan. Yeah, I'm unrepentant. 1064 01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:39,240 I don't care. So those three books are going 1065 01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:44,880 to be attempts that we do with the crowdfunding by Backer Kit 1066 01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:49,240 platform. Because I'm watching a bunch of 1067 01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:53,080 folks crowdfund stuff on the crowdfunding by backer kit and I 1068 01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:56,440 want to see how it works. And I want to see, you know, I 1069 01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,720 think it's closer to the idealized pre-order store 1070 01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,960 situation that Kickstarter is supposedly not supposed to be, 1071 01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:09,720 right, that we all know. A system is what it does. 1072 01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:10,600 You know what I mean? That is. 1073 01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:18,200 Yeah, I did just I just backed Heretic's guide to the to dying 1074 01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,440 lands on backer kit directly and I thought it was really 1075 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:26,040 interesting and it it seems like at least from the customer 1076 01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,960 facing side like a very smooth integration into like. 1077 01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,560 There are like how I. Already use Backerkit for all of 1078 01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:34,520 the other Kickstarter projects that have, yeah. 1079 01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:37,640 It'll be interesting to see what I think. 1080 01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,440 I was just talking with Caleb Dice a couple episodes ago too, 1081 01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,880 cuz they put Ritual Magic for Besties on Crowdfunder. 1082 01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,880 It's interesting the variations between, I think those are the 1083 01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:53,440 kind of the three biggest ones right now Kickstarter and and 1084 01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:59,520 Crowdfunder and Backerkit. But it's interesting hearing the 1085 01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,600 three well because I mean we know that Games Found is is 1086 01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,920 basically it's really more for board games. 1087 01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:06,920 We've read from so many different people so I'm not 1088 01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:08,960 really counting that one. But between those three it's 1089 01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,080 really interesting how their variations are different because 1090 01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:12,760 Crowdfunder funds very differently. 1091 01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:15,840 Like you don't pay the crowd like them at all. 1092 01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:17,840 The all the money goes directly to the creator right away and 1093 01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,520 stuff. A backer kit feels like the one 1094 01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:22,880 that's really has the potential to really blow up. 1095 01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,520 Especially because so many Kickstarters go to backer kit 1096 01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,800 for their like pledge manager anyway, I think a lot of it's 1097 01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:32,400 really just gonna come down to the time it takes to build a 1098 01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:38,240 base of people that browse Backerkit as much as the base 1099 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,640 for Kickstarter has been around for what, like 10 plus years, 1100 01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,200 right. So, But I'm hoping obviously we 1101 01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:48,640 all know that Kickstarter. Is the best so good all the 1102 01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:51,440 time? It's the best because it's the 1103 01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,400 biggest not because it's the best and I'm really hoping that 1104 01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:57,720 that kind of shifts and also you know if if itch can kind of get 1105 01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:00,760 their shit together and become a little bit better suited for 1106 01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:04,040 stuff too. But but it it's cure. 1107 01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,640 I'm curious and the more people that move over to something like 1108 01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:10,960 Backer kit especially with names that you know like Space 1109 01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:12,720 Penguin, people will follow wherever. 1110 01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,160 My assumption is, I mean I will obviously. 1111 01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:19,480 But I'm hoping that the more people are willing to experiment 1112 01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:23,440 the more those other sites will get better. 1113 01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,360 Which may in turn make Kickstarter get better. 1114 01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,840 Because, you know, is it that what capitalism is supposed to 1115 01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:33,000 be is is options? And I mean hopefully, hopefully 1116 01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:37,280 the options, you know the the, the exhibition of options makes 1117 01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:41,520 folks want to work, you know, more to improve the 1118 01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:43,840 infrastructure of the existing things. 1119 01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:47,200 I mean I know that's that's what we're trying to do with with 1120 01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,560 what we can control and what we can handle on the back end. 1121 01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:52,800 As far as like sharing information about hey, you know, 1122 01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:57,840 you too can run your own web commerce store and not have to 1123 01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,040 worry about having boxes of fulfillment stuff in your house. 1124 01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,920 Let us have those boxes of fulfillment stuff here in our 1125 01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,280 space and things like that. And just like the, I don't know, 1126 01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:10,920 just the the more, the more we can make the cooler. 1127 01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:16,120 Seeing as how my camera is being really finicky, this might be a 1128 01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,280 good time to wrap. Yeah, that works for us. 1129 01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:23,120 So listen, are we gonna should we let people know about us? 1130 01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:30,520 We like the I'll say yeah the three of us exactly. 1131 01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,840 Our three ADHD asses are actually going to be able to get 1132 01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:36,400 together for any extended period of time and actually make that 1133 01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:38,560 happen. No, the space Penguin this is 1134 01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:39,760 going to be a regular thing on our show. 1135 01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:43,720 We're still coming up with the name I vetoed one but we'll see 1136 01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:46,840 if I get over UN vetoed on that but expect jerk for the 1137 01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:48,440 foreseeable future to be here on the show. 1138 01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:51,640 So information about Space Penguin Inc about stuff coming 1139 01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:54,280 out I think next month. Yeah, Karen's going to be 1140 01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:55,680 dropping, so we're going to be talking about. 1141 01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:58,320 So it's going to be, it's going to be in the interim that I 1142 01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:02,120 think that we need to schedule it ahead now because it'll be in 1143 01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:06,360 the interim where Yohan is going to be at breakout con and doing 1144 01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,840 promo there. And then it'll be during that 1145 01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:13,240 week when he's gone. And then before I before I head 1146 01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:15,920 out to Gary Conn, because then I'm going to be a Gary Conn, you 1147 01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:18,720 know talking up a bunch of people there and then it's going 1148 01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,840 to go live. It's tentatively we're going 1149 01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:28,160 live that last week of March. As soon as is, you know we're 1150 01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,120 we're working on, we're working on quotes right now and I'm 1151 01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:33,000 working on weights and everything is just so 1152 01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:35,319 intertwined. Like as soon as I get quotes and 1153 01:08:35,319 --> 01:08:38,720 I get paper and I know how much the paper is going to weigh and 1154 01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,200 each book is going to weigh, then I can be like cool. 1155 01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,960 And this is then I can share that information with 1156 01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,960 fulfillment service providers overseas and stuff like that. 1157 01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,800 And I can start scoping out our numbers so that we can get those 1158 01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:53,319 numbers locked in so that yes, we'll still have, it'll still 1159 01:08:53,319 --> 01:08:57,760 say on the Kickstarter page, estimated, you know, shipping 1160 01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,120 amounts and estimated shipping times, but we want to try to get 1161 01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:03,120 that as close to reality as possible. 1162 01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:07,600 So yeah, looking forward to catching up with you guys next 1163 01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:11,200 month and discussing. Hopefully we'll have a few new 1164 01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:16,760 things that will come out by then we should and then you know 1165 01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:19,279 sees the sand will be in and out the door. 1166 01:09:19,279 --> 01:09:22,439 Some more of our fulfillment partners will be stuff will be 1167 01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:25,760 in and out the door and I'll have more pretties to look at. 1168 01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:28,920 Cool well, I'm. Super excited for cat chat too. 1169 01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:33,760 We'll, we'll see. We'll see what we call this. 1170 01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:36,840 But again, for for the for the Foresevo future, expect a jerk 1171 01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:40,200 to be here on the show at least once a month, maybe with some 1172 01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:43,479 occasional guests as well. And that way, not only will you 1173 01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,279 be plugged into what Space Penguin is doing, but with all 1174 01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:49,680 of the everything else, considering that you know the 1175 01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:51,840 number of people that they're working with for fulfillments 1176 01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:53,880 and stuff like that, you'll get a lot more news than just what's 1177 01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:56,160 going on with Space Penguin with a lot of what's happening in the 1178 01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:58,120 indie scene. So Jerk, thank you so much for 1179 01:09:58,120 --> 01:09:59,680 being here. Everyone out there, thank you so 1180 01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:02,480 much for watching and expecting. More news, as always. 1181 01:10:02,480 --> 01:10:03,920 Cool. Bye. 1182 01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:05,000 Bye.