1 00:00:15,460 --> 00:00:17,660 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll Podcast. 2 00:00:17,660 --> 00:00:21,700 My name is Ryan and with me is the incomparable David Hoskins. 3 00:00:21,700 --> 00:00:22,620 How you doing this morning, David? 4 00:00:23,580 --> 00:00:27,640 Doing good, correct? You know, you know what I just 5 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,120 realized as I ran away for a second came back before we 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,400 started the stream, is this is technically going to be the 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,480 second episode of 2025. And I'm pretty sure you guys 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,520 were the second episode of 2024. I think the Swivers like you and 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,360 Luke Gearing when it was like one of the first episodes. 10 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,800 Yeah, cool. I could be completely wrong, but 11 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,000 we get to start the year twice in a row with with David 12 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:49,080 Hoskins. So how's it going? 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:51,360 So nice. We did it twice. 14 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:52,280 Right. There we go. 15 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:57,080 Yeah, I'm good. Enjoying a little bit of 16 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:02,640 downtime before things start back up again on Monday, you 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:08,240 know, with like work and being on a schedule, it's been it's 18 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,440 been a good couple weeks of a little a little bit more free 19 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,240 time, a little bit more time to relax. 20 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,520 So looking forward back at the swing of it though, so. 21 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,800 You guys got to take a couple weeks off over the holidays? 22 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,680 Yeah, like what he kind of staggers there like time off a 23 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,440 bit, a few meetings and stuff that I have to do over at 24 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,320 Exalted Funeral. But for the most part, you know, 25 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:37,160 and like a little bit of a quiet time or people can take time off 26 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,000 and spend time with fam and stuff. 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,000 And I like to try to stay on top of things because, you know, 28 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,440 things stop moving if you're not there. 29 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:52,000 So I just manage my time a bit better without having to do 30 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,640 meetings and stuff like that. So there you go. 31 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,400 It's been nice, yeah. And, and you mentioned Exalted 32 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,200 Funeral, I guess for those that might not know who David Hoskins 33 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,080 is, like who, who the heck is David Hoskins? 34 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:03,800 And and why? Why do you bring up Exalted 35 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,440 Funeral? Yeah, so I'm David Hoskins. 36 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,639 I do illustration and some design work for Temple Top 37 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,680 role-playing games, but I'm also the art director over at Exalted 38 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,400 Funeral. So whenever we got it, got a lot 39 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,800 of projects going like we always do. 40 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,320 So it's a lot of back and forth with creators and helping them 41 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:29,560 like find good fits for art and also like making, making sure 42 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,920 everyone stays on task for the most part. 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,720 Getting a little bit of my comeuppance though, with me 44 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,160 being late projects, being the late artist. 45 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,240 Now I have to deal with like other artists and for the most 46 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,320 part everybody I work with is really good though. 47 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,400 Like haven't really, I haven't had any super nightmare stories. 48 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,160 Everyone's been pretty sick to work with. 49 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,520 So yeah, it's been been good I think. 50 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:55,880 Been doing it for three years now. 51 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,080 Been in the position officially. Been our director at EF for 52 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,520 three years now. I don't know if I knew that last 53 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,080 year that that's what that's what you're doing when you came 54 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,240 on to talk about swipers. Yeah, yeah, like and it ate up 55 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,840 it's it's been eaten up a little bit more of my time. 56 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,920 So I've been taking like less freelance. 57 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,720 That's pretty pronounced freelance for a quite a while 58 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,600 during Swivers particular particularly was a rough 59 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:30,000 experience just with yeah, there we go. 60 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,920 Yeah, it's currently sold out, but I think that we're doing a 61 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:35,560 Mel Sunny is doing another print run. 62 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,760 So yeah, pick up your copy of Swipers. 63 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,840 It's awesome book. But now I just had like a lot 64 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,240 going on. There's like family left going 65 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,400 on and like health issues and you just like compile a bunch of 66 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,760 things compounded on that one kind of burnt me out pretty 67 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,280 good. So for the past year after 68 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,680 servers I've been laying low and just doing EF stuff, but now I'm 69 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,880 getting back and doing more freelance and doing more 70 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,000 personal work, so that's been fun. 71 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:07,200 That's awesome. I mean, it's great that you have 72 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,480 the option to like take some time off and have, you know, the 73 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,960 other stuff at the EF and you know, as art director over 74 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,040 there. What, what, what do you do 75 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:17,240 there? I know you said you kind of deal 76 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,560 with artists, but like, how much do you actually input the art 77 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:22,920 that goes into individual projects? 78 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,400 Or is it like an overall kind of aesthetic thing or, or what do 79 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,120 you? Do so with a company, like with 80 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,520 EF, it's different than it would be if you're working at like 81 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,360 Watsi or something, right? Or like a, a big publisher, 82 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:43,080 because we do most of our deals and like our partnerships with 83 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,720 creators. It's, it's a, it's a partnership 84 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:52,240 like we don't own these IPS. We partner with creators and 85 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:58,840 it's a split. So I can't just come in and this 86 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:02,480 is how it's going to look like a normal art direct would, right? 87 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,280 I have to like work with people, which kind of makes it a little 88 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:12,040 more difficult sometimes, but I think through the through that 89 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,360 collaboration, you've stronger work. 90 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,680 There aren't too many people that push back against my 91 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,520 suggestions. And if they do, they have good 92 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,320 reason to. And then we have that back and 93 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,000 forth, right? So different. 94 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,880 And it's kind of project to project. 95 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:31,160 A lot of projects come with artists attached. 96 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:33,160 You know, you think of like Land of Beam, right? 97 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,680 That's a writer and an artist and they're paired together and 98 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,720 there is artwork outside of their team, but for the most 99 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,960 part, like they've got a lot of their stuff locked down. 100 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:50,520 So I might help with like securing like we have a Bowens 101 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:56,360 buddy who does like packaging and stuff like that, like making 102 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,000 sure the slip case looks nice, like, you know, setting, setting 103 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:04,000 them up with things like that. Or I need layout and finding a 104 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:09,800 good layout artist to put the book together and some people 105 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:14,120 just might need everything. And then that's when, you know, 106 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,040 usually come up with some suggestions and we try to figure 107 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,400 out who works price wise with the budget. 108 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,360 Yeah. So it's it's different for sure. 109 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,520 Like you got to, you got to work with your partners. 110 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,600 Is so are there any projects kind of over the last year that 111 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,880 you have put out that you got to have a little bit more of a hand 112 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,640 in or or is it mostly, like you said, kind of more coordinating 113 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,960 the art as opposed to really getting your hands into it? 114 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:49,200 There's been a few that there's been a few that have been like a 115 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:56,640 little more with me being hands more hands on, but the ones that 116 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:01,720 I like the most ones where like ballads of warhead. 117 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,800 I'm I'm a huge like John Demers fan and we put that out and 118 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:12,080 that's just of his books, like his scenes for stat after old 119 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,720 school essentials. It's a beautiful book. 120 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,760 That's one where like we just I worked with John and we up 121 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,960 there. I wish more people get up 122 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,560 because I do think it's like a big I think it's a gorgeous 123 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,000 book. It doesn't really spoon Fiji. 124 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,200 It's it's a bit raw when you read it, but no more so than 125 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,400 like an old gazetteer from like, you know, a forgotten realm 126 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:44,720 gazetteer from the day, you know, like it's each is a 127 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,040 previous release that he put out on a but the artwork is just 128 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:53,960 gorgeous. Book is gorgeous and like John's 129 00:07:53,960 --> 00:08:00,160 an amazing artist working with right now, Zach Hoppin, Zach 130 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,560 Hazard. He's doing a release with us 131 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,080 this year called Frog World that he's going to post on on social 132 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,000 media, which is looking really awesome. 133 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,160 Like he's putting out a lot of artwork in this book and he's 134 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,680 doing the layout. It's going to look like it's 135 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:22,720 it's that out for more, but it's like new player, like class or 136 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,000 races or whatever where your different kinds of like the and 137 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:32,720 it's a sandbox can and it's kind of like little crawls in it. 138 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,559 So you got like frog heaven, frog hell and then like frog 139 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,840 world, and that one's pretty cool. 140 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,440 I don't know, having a bit of a brain fart trying to think of 141 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:49,840 put out Andrew Tiger was conceptualized who's none got 142 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:55,960 Joey Royale to do the and then we got Tia Roche dreams on 143 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:01,720 Instagram to do the artwork and Sam McKenzie who want me big and 144 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,520 we've got Sam on another project right now that I got him on. 145 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:10,880 That's going to be pretty tight. So that one was, you know, like 146 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,520 there was nothing assigned to it just on that one. 147 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:20,880 And what else do we do? Like I think I like, I basically 148 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,000 like I kind of got the job. We were looking for Monty Python 149 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:29,040 artists back when that was in development and the time I was 150 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,400 just doing customer service, I guess a part just to help out 151 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:39,280 and they were helping me just went to work and they were just 152 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,760 looking for artists put up a list. 153 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:47,840 And so like Kyle Patterson, amazing, phenomenal and way too 154 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:53,000 like I was expecting and be like older than me, but he's like or 155 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:58,360 something, he's just so good. And then Elliot Lang, who is a 156 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,080 another phenomenal illustrator who does like folio state work 157 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:10,120 and got them and then also got the the holy blanket on his 158 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,680 name. The character, the characters on 159 00:10:12,680 --> 00:10:19,760 the GM like those paintings that are like oil rubbed painting, I 160 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:25,120 believe their oil rub where it's like you get a really defined 161 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,560 drawing and you put like oil paint like Sienna and then you 162 00:10:29,560 --> 00:10:32,040 lift the highlights out and then you color all over it. 163 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,280 I think that's what those are, but there might be more paint 164 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,280 involved. Zach. 165 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:45,080 Zach was his phenomenal character artist. 166 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,040 He does like golf portraiture and stuff for like golf 167 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,400 magazines, like weird big headed, like editorial stations, 168 00:10:54,760 --> 00:11:00,920 but it is he was the like old school professional, which was a 169 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:06,080 bit refreshing. He was very much like no, like 170 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,560 here's the deadline, not the deadline. 171 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,360 Hey there, revision urging you for these revisions, like kind 172 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:16,960 of like very upfront and very like here's what it is and back 173 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,960 and forth, which sometimes I can may respect and appreciate. 174 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:27,560 I don't know, had a lot of books come out like we did landavine 175 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,600 Gavin on some Dolman Woods stuff. 176 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:37,280 That's something we're having and it is had already like had a 177 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:42,160 little that guy you'd work with previously, but that you know, I 178 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:47,000 pulled in like Ellie Kingston, who just is a tattooer Richmond 179 00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:51,960 and she recently got work at the gathering on their like little 180 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,600 critter set. I don't it's like Bramble wood 181 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,400 or something like I don't know. I haven't played magic. 182 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,240 Years and years. Years. 183 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:01,560 I'm playing magic since I was a kid. 184 00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:05,000 I got already I I started Warhammer now I got my, my, my 185 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,000 hobby budgeted shot. I can't do magic too, Yeah. 186 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,520 Riff she we got her in on Dolman Wood we got. 187 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:19,040 Outback we got again Owens help with some of the packaging 188 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,080 stuff. Well, did it really work like 189 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,640 that was fun. You're able to do the minis box 190 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:30,440 like I pitched the thing with the window with the flip up box 191 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,280 lid with the pork inside the window. 192 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:39,080 And then like the designing it in a way, Kyle broke everything 193 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,040 up and kept everything layered. We could separate the 194 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,000 characters. You'd have like the fire 195 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,440 extinguished behind the minis, but when the IT is closed, you 196 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,600 see the illustration evolved from there and I think that was 197 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,840 really successful. So that was another one that was 198 00:12:54,200 --> 00:13:01,880 a lot of fun to work with. Recently trying to think now 199 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,440 Castle automatic with Josh has been really good. 200 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,320 The follow up to The Worm, it's like a mega dungeon for that 201 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:14,480 that we're doing a pre-order for that's been taken up. 202 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,280 A lot of a lot of band just trying to stay on top of that 203 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,480 one because we've got a few artists and making sure that it 204 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:24,840 follows the trade dress of His Majesty the Worm. 205 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,840 But also like there's upon some things like especially with 206 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,880 land. It's kind of what I'm tackling 207 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,640 right now. Yeah, I don't know. 208 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:35,840 A lot of a lot of little things going on. 209 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,880 The Meow Wolf role-playing game is like, really all-encompassing 210 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,080 that we're working on neighbors. I've seen some of the previews 211 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:48,480 for that and that's, I mean, I've seen meow Wolf across the 212 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,600 country, different places I've been like Colorado and stuff. 213 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,480 You see like big things for it. So when EF announced the the 214 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,240 thing and I saw some illustrations, I was like, well, 215 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,200 this is going to be this is going to be crazy. 216 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,560 So. Yeah, yeah, that one was that. 217 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,920 This one's going to cool. It's definitely different, like 218 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,520 kind of like the Python was different. 219 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,760 I'm personally not IP like games unless it's Lord of the then 220 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,280 I'll just get it because I'm a big Motörhead. 221 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:20,040 But this one's weird enough and they've got they've been enough 222 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,280 like odd shit floating around out there between all their 223 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,480 exhibits. There's a lot to pull from Tiger 224 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:34,000 wood riding it and he's pretty deep into their like he was a 225 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,040 big fan of brand. I'd never been to one went out 226 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,120 to the Santa Fe 1 and it was like their team's been fun to 227 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:48,200 work with, but I got tried more to do the wrap around cover for 228 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:53,600 that one that's been revealed. Mention that he work on. 229 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:58,120 He did a phenomenal for comic Silver Surfer Black. 230 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,880 That is really, really sick and he did a Doctor Strange book 231 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,160 recently as well. That's pretty cool. 232 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,080 And he has a little bit of like a martial arts like flesh balm 233 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,720 style called Luther Strode. That's like kind of this 234 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,360 Ultraviolet like martial arts comic that I believe was out on 235 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,640 it maybe about 10 years ago is when it started. 236 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:24,400 There's 4 volumes and it's really like action-packed, like 237 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:29,640 if you like Baki or like Fist of the North Star or Saint Muscle, 238 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,000 like any of that old, like any of that plastic flesh bomb, like 239 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,000 a boy beating each other. Anime manga stuff like Luther 240 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:42,520 Strode is really good. Thick Yeah. 241 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,640 Besides, I know we just talked about meow, Wolf, but you said 242 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,360 you're kind of getting back into doing a little bit more 243 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,720 freelance stuff on your own. Is there anything that's been 244 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,440 taken up your time like towards the end of 2025 and into 2026? 245 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,880 So like I mentioned earlier, I don't know if you're maybe I 246 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,720 did. Yeah, we were recording because 247 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,840 we were talking quite a bit before recording that kind of 248 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:12,480 hit that like this burnout wall. So I 2025 was very like minimal 249 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:17,880 for me doing like game work or personal work, just kind of 250 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,240 burnt out. And then right at the end I was 251 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,400 talking to my buddy Gage Bridgeman over there at high 252 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,680 scum and the Big Magic the gathering player. 253 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:37,520 And we were talking about like the art of magic and how we it's 254 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,880 cool now that we're starting to see like Justine Jones being 255 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,280 like a huge push. Allie Livingston, like Wizard of 256 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,760 barge has car like on the DND set. 257 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,720 They have Russ Nicholson art on like some of the and Tony Dieter 258 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,080 Lizzy and I'm like it's cool to see them doing this stuff. 259 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,440 And I think, I think Gage was like, well, kind of because of 260 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,440 the proxy scene, like people making the their own cards and 261 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,960 getting them made-up boxing stuff and so. 262 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,319 I. Started looking around and 263 00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:11,520 seeing some of these really awesome cards. 264 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,560 Sean Demir I mentioned before did a few. 265 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:21,119 Did like a a little pack which sitting here someplace with 266 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:27,079 another artist from Canada. I'm sorry, I think I don't 267 00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:31,960 remember her name, but but she was selling them on stores. 268 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,520 So I got a couple sets of those to kind of give out as gifts, 269 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,040 one for myself, but they were awesome. 270 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:46,400 I think Big Boy Game Time's been doing some online and I just 271 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,520 seem like a bunch of people making these awesome like token 272 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,200 proxies. And so it's kind of like man, I 273 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,320 used to magic. I think I've a collection 4 274 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,480 times. First time probably when 4th 275 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,560 edition came out or like ice, like right around there. 276 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,480 I played through like Homeland or Visions or Alliances, 277 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,680 something in that thing. And then I came back into it 278 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:15,880 like Miernan Kamagawa block got out like after Ravnica sold 279 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,960 everything again. And then I got back in again 280 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,560 during the World Wakes, sold everything and and I like I'm 281 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,080 not allowed to buy them anymore. I just don't do it. 282 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,400 But I still like have this pleasure for the game. 283 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,720 So all these proxies kind of fired off some of that 284 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:35,320 nostalgia. And I whenever I get burnt out, 285 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,960 I find that the sometimes it's hard to find. 286 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,320 It's hard to find the cure for it. 287 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:47,080 But for me, the cure is to change styles and do completely 288 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,960 different and for a while I like filling around with more 289 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,440 traditional stuff is OK, but it was more like sketchbookie 290 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,680 things nothing. And then a few times before I'd 291 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,400 kind of use this, this airbrush, this digital airbrush. 292 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:09,720 And so I started I did a demon token with this airbrush style. 293 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:11,720 It looked pretty cool. Sounds like all right. 294 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,560 And then I, I did, I limited myself to three settings. 295 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:20,480 So if a sitting gets interrupted, then that's fine. 296 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,560 But that's that sitting, right? So like 3 sittings to finish a 297 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,200 card. A sitting could be 3 hours, a 298 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,360 sitting could be 20 minutes, whenever. 299 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,880 It's kind of set that rule because I'm also a bit of a 300 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,160 perfectionist and I don't like to like I'll overwork something, 301 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,280 it'll take forever. Hence swaggers took forever 302 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,000 because it's like drawing every roof shingle and like that. 303 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:50,680 But I knocked out a demon then I did what was the second one? 304 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:58,120 Oh buzzy spawn and then goblin and then a vampire and I knocked 305 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:00,360 him out really quick and they look cool. 306 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,760 And now I'm I'm going to do a old school essentials has the 307 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,880 OSC demon month coming out and. For the Demonic Remor, which is 308 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,000 the next official OSC release, it's been announced, so I'm not 309 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,800 spoiling anything, but it's the OS CS Fien Folio. 310 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,680 So there's going to be a demon fun backer kit like Sam and 311 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,720 Mellie's got a book that looks awesome. 312 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:33,120 Maximin's doing one with Jonica that's going to be like a choose 313 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:36,360 your own adventure style thing that looks absolutely mad. 314 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,320 Take us out. Yeah, I think I saw Johann was 315 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,680 doing something, but he might have bounced like due to other 316 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,000 obligations. But Don Stroud's doing 1. 317 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,520 Trying to think of who else I know is in the loop, but there's 318 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,320 yeah, it's going to be cool. Like if you think like if you're 319 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,600 into demons and Dungeons Dragons and Old School Central, it's 320 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,880 going to be a cool 1. So I'm doing one of those 321 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:09,480 keeping it this like air Rushy, like painterly style, like it's 322 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,600 much more rendered, less like line pen and ink traditional and 323 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,040 stuff that I'd normally do. And that was really like 324 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,240 liberating. And now I'll return on the 325 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,960 demonic Remor to my like pen and ink style. 326 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,760 So I've got some pieces in that as well that Gavin wanted me to 327 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:33,160 do. So that's going to be my 2026, 328 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:34,520 like at least the beginning of it. 329 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:40,840 We'll be getting this OSC demonic or more or OSC month 330 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,920 scene and then to also fulfill my application for the pieces 331 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,800 that were assigned to me for demonic more. 332 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,840 I think I think to the art for that is starting to come in. 333 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,360 I'm trying to like Tyler Pennington. 334 00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:00,880 The Creek from six 3D on Instagram has got a piece in 335 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,400 there. Got there like so many good 336 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,120 artists blanking on them. We'll put a link out maybe for 337 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:10,720 the like sign up like page, because I think that's up 338 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,040 already. I don't know. 339 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,520 I got a few. I'm going to keep doing these 340 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,520 magic tokens, probably do like maybe two or three more. 341 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,520 Maybe things that are a little more playable because right now, 342 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,640 like Elder Ozzie smile is kind of playable, but I don't think 343 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,400 anyone's really playing demons and no one's really playing like 344 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:31,720 like vampires I think are still relevant. 345 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,120 I don't know how relevant Goblins will always relevant, 346 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,880 but I know that they're like treasure and food tokens and 347 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,560 other things that people are using a lot of. 348 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:45,520 A beast token makes sense, like beasts are always relevant, So 349 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,440 what? So for for the uninitiated, I 350 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,040 guess a couple of questions. What? 351 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,160 Edition What edition of magic are they on now? 352 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,160 Like is this a thing like a million? 353 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,680 Like the is every release edition or? 354 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,040 I know that they don't do corsets anymore, but they call 355 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,360 it something different and I don't know like because back 356 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:14,360 when I bounced off of it, they doing like, I want to say like a 357 00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:17,680 setting a year. So it was a corset and three, 358 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,400 three sets in a block, right is what they would call it. 359 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,480 So it'd be like Zenda car block or like Ravnica block and a 360 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,120 corset. Now I don't know what they're 361 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,280 doing because they're doing like universes beyond stuff which 362 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,600 seems to like have kind of take hobby, which sucks. 363 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,000 Not a big fan. Even the Lord of the Rings stuff 364 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:46,280 like I didn't buy it and it's pretty rare for me. 365 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,400 For when I see magic anymore, that's what it kind of feels 366 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:50,480 like. It feels like when are we going 367 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,840 to get like the Bob's Burger versus Sailor Moon set or 368 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,320 something? Like it's kind of getting crazy, 369 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,800 yeah. It is Spongebob's. 370 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,980 I mean, there's like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles now, Spider 371 00:24:02,980 --> 00:24:08,240 Man stuff and I don't like. When did the ranch become Funko 372 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,480 pop? Like I don't understand someone 373 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,080 someone in chat just said 4 universes beyond sets and three 374 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,400 regular sets this year. So seven sets. 375 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,200 Seven sets, are you supposed to keep up with that? 376 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,920 And then I also want to say like the Spider man set, they 377 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,720 couldn't get a license for like Arena, the online stuff. 378 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,880 So they would like the veteran arena aren't spider man cards. 379 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,320 So they're names, but same abilities and the same amount of 380 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,880 cost. So like, if you're, if you're a 381 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,840 core player and you're practicing online, you're not 382 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,560 practicing with the same cards with a big handicap, I would 383 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,440 think, right. Like, because you're, you're 384 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,000 practicing with stuff that's like you're theory built, you're 385 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,840 crazy theory building decks and trying to find a new meta or, 386 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,840 you know, your lightning bolt or your spider ZAP or whatever the 387 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,800 magic card is actually Peter Parker's web shooter on the 388 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,280 printed card that you would have to use in a tournament. 389 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,800 You're just mentally not as sharp because you remember 2 390 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,120 cards for everyone I think. So like, that sucks. 391 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,560 I just want like, cool medieval guys hitting each other and 392 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,280 like, yeah, and what the heck. 'S a token. 393 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,360 So tokens have been around for a while, right? 394 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:33,120 So that's like a like if you've got a card that like creates 395 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:38,040 zombies, you've got is token. So it's like it's just a card. 396 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,680 It's like a little like summoned. 397 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,760 I mean, your creatures are already summoned dudes, like 398 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,000 summoned dudes that you're summoned summons. 399 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,360 Yeah. So you can so like vampire 400 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:53,040 creates like A11 token or whatever. 401 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,400 Is that why like for because I see a lot of token art. 402 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,840 Is that why kind of people like art people kind of lean into the 403 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,880 token cards because it's not you don't need all of like the stats 404 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,040 and stuff. It's more like the art can just 405 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,640 be representative. Is that is that why that's kind 406 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:08,120 of done that way? I. 407 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,440 Think it's. I think it's that and it's also 408 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,040 Wattsy. I don't like, there's probably 409 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,640 some copyright issue there as well. 410 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,760 Like you can make skull clamp, but they own skull clamp. 411 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,400 Like that's like a trademark thing, but Vampire is not. 412 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,640 So like there might be some legality thing there. 413 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,360 Like people will make and sell like a proximal clamp all day 414 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:35,000 long with like custom art and stuff. 415 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,440 Legal. Probably not, but like no, I 416 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,480 assume not, But yeah, who who care? 417 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,800 But the tokens, the pins I think are also like you said, you can 418 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,960 focus more on the art and not about a big block of text on 419 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,880 some things like clamp is a bad example because I that text box 420 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,680 is rather small. But there are some cards are 421 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,360 like commander staples that a lot of text and then, you know, 422 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:07,680 maybe it's not as fun to make just because you can't. 423 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:14,080 They flex the art as hard. Yeah, I, you know, I was in the 424 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,360 Magic when I was younger because like, it's cool as shit and I 425 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,880 obviously have a collector bug. So like getting the cards and 426 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,800 stuff is whatever. But when, when it started to be 427 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,280 like a money game, I definitely bounced out of it. 428 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,600 And I think now, you know, I have to listen to hives come a 429 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,040 lot. And I know they've they talk a 430 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,400 lot about, you know, commander and, and magic and stuff in 431 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,960 general. And I just think like, it's 432 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,320 definitely something I've thought about and bounced off 433 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,080 even on my own brain being like, like you were saying, like, oh, 434 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,000 you got to play online to figure out this new meta. 435 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,080 I'm like, I don't want to play a game that like has a meta 436 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,240 because I don't like playing games to win, if that makes 437 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:49,880 sense. Like I I I've got to started 438 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,680 shifting into skirmish for a million reasons. 439 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,800 I'm not going to get into away from RPGs, but I like narrative 440 00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,280 skirmish. Like I don't care if I win or 441 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,120 lose a game. If like we told a cool story. 442 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,640 And you know, and again, that's one reason I started really 443 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,800 getting into hype scum is that's like their whole mindset, like 444 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,040 the DIY or die and just like play to have fun kind of thing. 445 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,400 So I think magic. Like, so Magic is a game that 446 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,280 discourages makers, which I think it's cool that we're 447 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,560 seeing people making anyway. And it's sort of the same thing 448 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:30,160 with Hammer stuff like the game discourages, right? 449 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:35,160 Like they want you to buy GW and buy their codexes every four 450 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,160 years or three years or however often you are. 451 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,880 They redo the army and tweak it a little bit and like fuck up 452 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,320 the balance or, you know, do a new scale miniature, you know, 453 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,440 like they'll face out. So urge makers. 454 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,200 But I think that when you you kind of get the coolest stuff 455 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:03,800 from like games and people that just don't want you to do it and 456 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,160 then you just do it anyway. Like you get cool shit that way. 457 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,480 So yeah, magic. Could you see that map? 458 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,680 You definitely see that with like the kid bash community and 459 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:20,960 people do some molds and people like thing and bringing in bash 460 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,880 your old toys and breaking them down and use pieces and making 461 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:33,400 cool with likes the heart of an old game, but better mind rules. 462 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,480 You know, it's like it's like kind of life changes that you're 463 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,160 seeing and OSR stuff right like that before. 464 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,240 It's also people just doing it themselves. 465 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:49,840 So you got lower quality like trashier publications. 466 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:56,320 And he somebody like some so miniatures Tanner who like it's 467 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,160 a something that was printed on the cheapest piece of paint, 468 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,120 folded by him, stapled it and like it's awesome, right? 469 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:09,400 It's really raw, not edited. It's not clean, it's dirty and 470 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,920 inspiration. Like he kind of, I don't know, I 471 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,360 get inspired stuff. Yeah, it doesn't need to be 472 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,920 perfect. Be loose. 473 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,920 And it's actually in some ways, and everything's like a 474 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,400 pendulum. Yeah, but I mean, that's the 475 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,600 shit that I love. Like my favorite things back 476 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,480 here are are that stuff. It's not the, you know, one of 477 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,000 my and I again, I won't touch on the 2D, but one of my issues 478 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,040 with the the small market tabletop, you know, teach RPG 479 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,560 scene right now is that everything is so fucking 480 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,400 polished, like to the nines so they can put up their $10,000 481 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,640 Kickstarter for the very first game and it drives me nuts. 482 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,680 And then you can go to like, you know, the friendship friend shop 483 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,640 and grab like a Rizzo printed, barely folded stapled like big 484 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,600 boy game time thing. And I would take that 100 times 485 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,680 Yeah, over over something that's like super, super process. 486 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,000 Like, you know, that's when we started. 487 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,120 That's kind of stuff that we really, really loved and really 488 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,440 got into. And it's the stuff that we're 489 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,800 moving back into. And you see that a lot more in 490 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,040 the skirmish scene, I think. And I then you do when they 491 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,480 teach RBG scene right now. And I think part it is just the 492 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,640 IT feels like much more of a hands on DIY thing. 493 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,520 Like you have to you kick patch the minis, you paint the minis. 494 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,320 So why not like make the Zine and fold the Zine and, and print 495 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,360 the Zine and and yeah, I'm way more inspired by that right now 496 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,560 than than, you know, most things in the teach RPG space. 497 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,760 I truly feel though that everything is cylindrical or 498 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,920 like I meant right. Like anything like time you go 499 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,800 too far it like swings back right? 500 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:49,160 Like so we the RPG space like at least as far as my taste go, 501 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,040 right? Like we went real hard into 502 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,720 accessibility, making sure that everything is like super 503 00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:01,640 polished filled and like and everything is like organized 504 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,480 well for table use, like usable kind of thing. 505 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,560 And now like, I'm like, this is looking too much. 506 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,400 So now I'm like, I don't give a shit about any of that. 507 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,480 And like I'm personally I'm swinging the other way now where 508 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,880 I'm like, I'm going to go into like maybe I do want to play a 509 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,920 really annular like complicated game, like, oh man, like 510 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,960 encumbrance and like durability and like, you know, and then it 511 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,560 will just the other way again. Like same thing with with the 512 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:38,720 Polish, right? Like right now we're in the 513 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,840 role-playing game sector, right? Like it gets homogenized and 514 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,920 that everything is like a mixing scene and everything looks and 515 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,000 feels. And then now we're starting back 516 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,160 over here. We're like the war gamer are 517 00:32:54,160 --> 00:33:02,080 doing what the OSR people did 15 years ago and it's feels fresh. 518 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,480 And eventually you're going to I, I guarantee you that start to 519 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,480 homogenize and then something's got to give. 520 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,800 And then it will go to being raw again. 521 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,800 Like it's the way the burn churn of fate, like a collective 522 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,760 consciousness of creativity, right? 523 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,640 Like something is popular and a bunch of people get in on it and 524 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,040 it kind of a bunch of innovation happens rapidly and then it all 525 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,040 kind of lands on on a thing. It gels up and then you got to 526 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:35,920 break it apart again. It's just like what? 527 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:41,040 It's what our job as artists and people who like to have fun do. 528 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,200 You build it up and get it, and then you just break it down for 529 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,320 pieces. You strip and you build 530 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,720 something now. Yeah, well, I I would really 531 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,400 like that pendulum and teach RBGS to start swinging back the 532 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,640 other way before, you know, 15 years goes by. 533 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,800 Yeah, but. It will happen. 534 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,240 It's I think it's it's probably happening like now, especially 535 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,000 now you're starting to pull out. You're you're getting the punk 536 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,360 and the hardcore kids back into it. 537 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,639 So like you're seeing it again through like dungeon since scene 538 00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:16,440 scene, though, and like people making their own music and 539 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:23,760 putting venture stuff into their or, you know, like it's the 540 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,080 narrative thing went over to the the war gaming right, like that 541 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,880 everyone bored Heim again and they're like, dude, the action 542 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,719 is just as cool, if not cooler than the game saying like what 543 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,000 happens to your dudes? And then, like making the story 544 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,040 of, Oh, shit, guy finally came out of the sewer and he came out 545 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,960 with weird stone. And now we're all like, we're 546 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,520 rich and like, like good weapons. 547 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:53,000 You know, we can get close and like, or we can drop the clubs 548 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,840 and get your stuff and get actual armor that works well. 549 00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,160 Or like, you know, mutations that are whatever. 550 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,960 Like if you're cold of the disaster, yeah, it's, well, you 551 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,160 know, potentially make that game fun. 552 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:08,920 Yeah. Well, what's interesting too is 553 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,720 like you said, it's not, you know, it's not necessarily going 554 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:14,280 to be in the Teach RBG space where that move happens. 555 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,800 But the tabletop space in general is always going to 556 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,400 influence the tabletop space. Because you know, one, if you 557 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,880 really look back, like one of the reasons or one of the things 558 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,320 that kind of perpetuated this extra Polish in the Teach RPG 559 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,160 space was a lot of the board game Kickstarters that were 560 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,520 getting super polished and, and pulling a lot of money on 561 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,040 Kickstarters. And that fed into the Teach RPG 562 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:34,880 space. Like you said. 563 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,040 Now the war game space is getting a lot of that Teach RPG 564 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,160 stuff and a lot of people that make really cool indie war game 565 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,960 stuff also probably on their page have some cool like like 566 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,360 big boy game time did Cauldron, but he also has like blood work, 567 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,840 you know, which is a teach RPG. So it's not like they are only 568 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,920 doing one thing. And a lot of the best indie 569 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,440 teach RPG stuff, you know, because you mentioned Tanner 570 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,280 Simpson, one of the most just crazy indie people alive, like 571 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,120 wonder reward 10,000 is is one of the best skirmish games, but 572 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,400 also teach RPGs that's out right now and it's definitely not 573 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:09,600 super accessible. I'll tell you that. 574 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,040 You got to really parse that, but it's so much fun. 575 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,960 But it's but that's what makes it fun is picking through it and 576 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,520 being like, I know 3 rules and I will play the game with like the 577 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,720 through these two and then you'll read it again. 578 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,520 It's almost like, you know, being it's like it kind of 579 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,480 reminds me of being hit again and having my second edition 580 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:34,120 players handbook and paying AD and D edition for like a year. 581 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,280 And then I flipped to a page and I'm like, shit, there's a rule 582 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,760 for this, right, That like I wasn't using, but I'm still 583 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,720 having fun and now I can pull it in there. 584 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:52,280 No, I I wouldn't wanted is wanted is a beautiful, grand 585 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,600 experiment. Like it's not a it's it's a 586 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,680 spirit, It's a an elemental force. 587 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,760 It's not like it's not like your standard game and it's I 588 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,440 wouldn't say that it's as it's as good as the people you play 589 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,480 it with. Like more so any other game, you 590 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,280 know, like we had who I think he built like the web and like the 591 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,960 forum and stuff for it. We had him run some of it at 592 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,000 con. We'd had a great game that over 593 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,360 a narrative from the previous game, this guy had like caught 594 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,000 the bounty last game and it was like flush with cash. 595 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,680 And then he ended up getting like lit up in this art gallery 596 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,640 thing that they had made. And all these blood tokens went 597 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,200 everywhere and slipping and sliding downstairs. 598 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:50,560 And like, Tyler and Terry were like trying to steal a car or 599 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,680 something. Like there's so much going on, 600 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,360 but that's not your typical skirmish game. 601 00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:01,200 And the rule like so crazy that the conversion tables like this 602 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,600 is where it like where I'm talking like it's granular and 603 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,160 it's stupid, but it's fun, right? 604 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,400 Whereas if it came out 10 years ago, I don't know if people 605 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:15,680 would like it as much because focusing on accessibility and 606 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,840 this thing is not accessible and it has no intention of being 607 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,320 accessible. And it is like this big 608 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:29,040 beautiful BLOB of a thing that that's what makes it unique and 609 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,360 interesting and enticing. And it does. 610 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,480 And that's kind of Tanner's thing though, because if you 611 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,200 read What's 1? That's like the deep sea fishing 612 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,720 one. It's really funny because I have 613 00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:42,800 to end their discord and I got the Zine off of the French shop 614 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,760 and I I hopped in and was like, hey, I really want to read this 615 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:47,960 at work. Is there APDF? 616 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:52,920 And they're like, no, but someone made someone's like give 617 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,880 me like 20 minutes and they sent me it, but they'd actually 618 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,480 skated upside down and I was like, that's fucking perfect. 619 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,560 That's the most this thing. But even Tanner like messaged 620 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,480 me. Yeah. 621 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,720 Like Tanner messaged me on on Instagram and was like, hey, you 622 00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:11,760 know, thanks for, you know, because I posted a picture of 623 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:12,920 it. It's like, thanks, it kind of 624 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,640 works. I'm not sure if it really does 625 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,640 just let me know. And I'm like, that's perfect. 626 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,440 That's the most perfect thing ever is like, give me this, you 627 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,840 know, $5 staple together thing that like maybe works, but it's 628 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,800 like super deep and it's just about fishing. 629 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,240 And that's really, really cool. And you can see that move into 630 00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,200 into a wanted reward because it's definitely like you said, 631 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,440 it's just use the parts of it that you feel like using at the 632 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,840 time and you'll have a fun time. But like the part with God, what 633 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,640 is it where you have to like program like your little robot 634 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,040 guy with like strings of code? But if? 635 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,480 You don't. Yeah, is so granular is so 636 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,000 crazy. And it's so interesting because 637 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,960 I remember hearing on, I think it was like Steve talking on 638 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,120 hive scum where he had like one of those little guys, but he 639 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,360 forgot to like put a code to make it move or something, or to 640 00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,600 like shoot a bad guy. So it just like stood there and 641 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,920 like that's that's the most like one reward thing I've ever heard 642 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,160 is like, I forgot to put a code in that said it could shoot or 643 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,720 move. So it didn't shoot or move. 644 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:09,000 And that's hysterical. Yeah, I think it was. 645 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,480 It couldn't move. So like you just like sat there 646 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,160 with like facing forward. And so it was yeah. 647 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,400 But yeah, I mean that's the. And at some point someone will 648 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:25,520 take what they like from 10,000 credits and they will pull it 649 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:31,680 into a version of that game with like 5 rule and it will cover 650 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,960 everything and everyone's going to love it and play it. 651 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:36,720 And then, you know, that's the thing. 652 00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:40,760 Like it's going to start here and it will eventually people 653 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,640 will be inspired by it and pick it apart, put it back to there 654 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:50,080 again, make it this streamline slick like thing and then you'll 655 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,160 end up getting sick of that style of game. 656 00:40:53,160 --> 00:41:01,240 Then you'll go back to like this unhinged anti user experience of 657 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,680 like these same thing like the old TSR games and like the old 658 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,920 like like we're working on that on fresh. 659 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:17,280 So like we were looking at some of the old like like wind 660 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:23,920 calculations and like angles and like like just who cares, right? 661 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,280 Someone cared at someone point enough to make the game and it 662 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,480 is obviously playable. But, you know, we'll distill 663 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,000 that and then something will come along and that will be 664 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:39,520 another complicated version of of whatever was made, I guess. 665 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,720 Well, that's that's one thing that in 2025, because I know, 666 00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:47,840 but you, yeah, well, you said a little bit too 2025 fucking 667 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,680 sucked. And with THRPGS, that's one 668 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,800 thing that's crazy to me. Not only if people, I'm not even 669 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,840 going to get into people that like only play 5E or only play 670 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,800 like one game or whatever. People that only play teach RPGs 671 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,160 are also missing out on so much of the tabletop space. 672 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,240 And like, that's one reason we started kind of shifting and 673 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,520 wanted to cover a little bit more because if you're not also 674 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,920 doing like board games and also doing war games and stuff, 675 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,920 there's so much interconnectedness, but also 676 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,960 like freshness and like innovation and cool stuff going 677 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,560 on in the different spaces that, you know, like I said, I'm, I'm 678 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,760 a little burned out on teach RPGs, but being able to shift 679 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,360 into kind of the indie skirmish space and seeing stuff like 680 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,080 wanted a reward. And you know, one of the 681 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,280 craziest things about that is I've never met two people that 682 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,440 call it the same thing. I call it work cock, but some 683 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,440 people call it run reward. Some people call it 10,000 684 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,960 credits. Like it's been great. 685 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,040 It'll revitalize like my love for tabletop, being able to move 686 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,080 into that and meet a lot of new people that are doing a lot of 687 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,160 really cool things. And, you know, and I, I, you 688 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,440 know, anyone listening, I highly advise like if you just play 689 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,760 TRPGS, like play board, I'm super excited for the next 690 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,360 escape that our castle version that's coming out At the same 691 00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:58,960 time. I'm excited for, you know, the 692 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,480 new, the new like war game stuff coming out. 693 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,880 So there's a lot more out there. And it's been really cool to 694 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,600 kind of move into those spaces. And I mean, so we, so we, we saw 695 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,160 each other at packs, which was really, really cool. 696 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,080 We actually got to hang out in person and we played a couple 697 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,040 games. Do you are you, do you want to 698 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,120 talk about any of the game that we played? 699 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,560 Yeah. Sure which what do you want? 700 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:22,880 No, we don't need to talk about mine. 701 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,440 We want to talk about yours because now we'll get there. 702 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,520 But but it was so much fun. So, so you're, you're developing 703 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,320 a game and I'd love, I'd love to, to hear you talk about it 704 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:34,520 because it was super fun to play. 705 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:44,280 So the thrash is a like aerial combat like heck game, right? 706 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:51,600 So it's like one-on-one. We did play 3 on one 3V3 version 707 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,960 of it and it got pretty, it got pretty bonkers and it went 708 00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:59,600 really fast. But that it might just not be 709 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,920 built for that. There might be some kind of real 710 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,640 alternate anyway, it's like 2 squads of planes and you're on a 711 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,720 hex map. So it's very reminiscent of 712 00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:15,880 those like shit high school chip games from I mean like Tsra ton 713 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,040 of them back in the day, Avalon hell did a ton of them. 714 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,840 So it's it's play that, but the rules are pretty straightforward 715 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,560 and simple. And I don't know, I think the 716 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,480 game's tight and now we just got up with some. 717 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,800 I think we got to come up with some like some rule variant like 718 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,440 or objective variance, I guess I should say, because the rules 719 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:44,640 change, but the just more to do like go at each other on the 720 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,000 same word, right. So like creating terrain, that's 721 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,720 which is, you know, like if you want to play it as some like 722 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,000 future, it's already kind of sticks. 723 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,480 There are some items in there that like are not real, but for 724 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,040 the most part it's like, you know, you're 20 XX kind of 725 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:10,400 future. So train is like and mountains 726 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,120 or like skyscrapers that go all that you just don't have enough 727 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,320 oxygen to keep your plane afoot. So, you know, just suspend your 728 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,200 disbelief. Someone else, maybe they're just 729 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:24,800 floating fields of like flying like like almost like in the 730 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,000 ocean for like submarines, but in the sky because you've got 731 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,240 these like kick ass planes. So they're just fields of 732 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,040 whatever you can't pass through. So there's we're trying to make 733 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,040 it module. You can like take the train and 734 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:45,760 create your own sort of playing field and scenarios with it or 735 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:50,760 like AD 6 contested role system with simple plus and minus 736 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:55,560 pluses depending on things like altitude positioning. 737 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,960 Like I mean, I think the most you can probably get plus 3 or 4 738 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:07,040 on your D6 and use somebody else and you know, see who went most 739 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,160 things have one hit points. It's like a one and done like 740 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,520 and it's over between two planes. 741 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:18,040 There's like 7 movement is what makes it interesting. 742 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,400 It's I think there are naval combat games that do, but you 743 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,800 know your propulsion based, there's no slowing down. 744 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:31,480 There's no like doing your full move. 745 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,120 You always have to do your full move and you always in a certain 746 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,400 like order. So like that that's when the 747 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,640 sort of chin scratchiness come to it where you're trying to 748 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,160 like make position to shoot somebody. 749 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,040 But you have you have to use these movements and you have to 750 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:53,160 use these these rules of like moving on board, which again, 751 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,320 like there might be, I don't know. 752 00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,240 How many rules do you think? Like maybe 3 like rules they 753 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,520 remember for your movement to keep it straight? 754 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:09,160 I mean how many can move on and then you move and then you click 755 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,440 and you move on a hex? Yeah, that's pretty it. 756 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,480 Yeah. I mean, it was, it's not. 757 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,320 I loved it because it was not complicated at all to pick up. 758 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:22,080 But it becomes deep when you understand it. 759 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:27,400 Like I sterling beat my ass because I did not realize how 760 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,320 important altitude was. And she definitely did. 761 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,640 So she immediately went like up 3 and I was just like, no, I'm 762 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,680 going to move forward. And then later when she's like 763 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,240 die bombing me and hitting me from different altitudes and 764 00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:40,920 getting like movement bursts because she's like coming down 765 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,640 and stuff. It was so cool. 766 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,680 And then I kept getting trapped because of the the click thing 767 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,160 where it's like you have to use your full movement and if a 768 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:50,720 guy's like right next to you, it's like, well, how do you 769 00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:53,320 click once and then move around so you can shoot him again? 770 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:58,520 So it's like you're in in like the, the theater of the mind 771 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,720 aspect of it. I'm seeing the plane just like 772 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,360 being too close or too tight or not being able to get into an 773 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,320 area where you can like get that reticle to tag onto somebody. 774 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:14,000 And it was, it was a lot of fun, like you said, with, with a lot 775 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,720 of it, just like if someone, if someone gets you in their 776 00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:19,320 sights, you're done. So you have to be really careful 777 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,040 about that unless you're the leader, but also the variety 778 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,320 with the weapons that you get to pick up and use and and the one 779 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,800 one shot kind of Ness of like you have the special missile 780 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,760 that can do this cool thing. One time was it's cool. 781 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,080 I I love games like that specifically that have really 782 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,120 simple or really it's not simple, but like straightforward 783 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,840 kind of base mechanics, but have like an intense amount of depth 784 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,080 when you really understand how to piece it all together. 785 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:49,320 Yeah, the equipment like the equipment helps to everything 786 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:53,760 like every plane for you don't if nobody knows, right, unless 787 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,600 you played it. We had a convention recently, 788 00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:00,600 but all you have like a limited range machine gun, sort of a 789 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:07,280 machine gun, but you've got cards are like I've kind of a 790 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,960 starter game, like an intro game load that everybody gets where 791 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,240 it's like everyone gets these missiles that you can assign to 792 00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:19,160 whatever planes and you randomly get like these bits of and the 793 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,760 equipment, everything is 1 use. The equipment's one use. 794 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,440 The missiles are one. The machine guns, they're just 795 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,760 always there. Cards themselves are all one 796 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,200 use. So like if you got a missile, 797 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,440 you use it and you use it. So there's like an AOE missile, 798 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,880 there's a missile that can earn and maneuver around the board a 799 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,600 little bit. But the equipment is like, I 800 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,640 think really cool. Like there's one that's like a 801 00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:51,640 blink drive as you pass through things at the same altitude or 802 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,400 some that lets you like rotate as many times as like, so it's 803 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,840 almost like a hairier thing. So let's use these thrust, 804 00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:03,760 thrust factor nozzle like move a little bit further and if with 805 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,840 your cards facedown, you can really surprise people play 806 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,520 test. I did was like it was like you 807 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,800 said, I didn't have a good angle because we were too close. 808 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,280 But what I could do is I could turn towards a muse link drive 809 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,920 to go through them and then it has to turn back around. 810 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,880 And then I had the rear gun thing and I was able to get that 811 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,280 big bonus on the because I was right behind them. 812 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:32,360 Did be like great turn, turn your cards doing it. 813 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,720 But you do get these like the epic turns if you've got like a 814 00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:39,400 good stack of equipment on a certain plane and the situation 815 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,440 comes up. So that's yeah. 816 00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,080 Well, that's how you know. It's also like such a tight like 817 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,720 well crafted game because being able to say like you get one 818 00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:55,160 extra turn or one extra move and how game changing that can be 819 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,240 just kind of shows like how tight like the base part is, 820 00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:00,440 which is fucking perfect because that is such a huge deal. 821 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,880 Like having the altitude to be able to do like a like a 180 822 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:08,000 kind of like bank and turn the other directions is so huge. 823 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,320 And again, like, next time I play it, you know, I'll, I'll 824 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:14,440 know these things, but just having those little bit of extra 825 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,680 movement it, it felt so cool. It felt in a lot of games, 826 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,480 movement's important, like you get into things, but having 827 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,880 movement be like so critical to the things that you're able to 828 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:26,720 do. I don't know it, it, it felt 829 00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:28,120 really, really cool. I, I loved it. 830 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,320 I definitely can't wait to, to see what you're going to do with 831 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:31,760 it. What What's what's the plan? 832 00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:38,560 So me and my buddy Justin Mccool have been working on it for, I 833 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,760 don't know, the past year and a half, two years at this point. 834 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,360 That will go like real hard for a little while and then like 3-4 835 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,960 months off or whatever and then return to it. 836 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:55,280 Me taking Axe and to Arcane Con was kind of the first big public 837 00:51:55,280 --> 00:52:01,200 thing is really encouraging that nobody like people had a but 838 00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:07,640 none of the opinions were like this is broken or didn't work or 839 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,520 nobody destroyed him. Like no one figured out like 840 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:16,600 like he really went through it with a tooth comb to make sure 841 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,480 that it was a tight system. And thank goodness that it 842 00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:25,360 turned out that way because so far some of the biggest like 843 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:32,120 people out there haven't really like fucked it up and figured 844 00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:36,160 out something that made me like really sad that now the game is 845 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:44,040 bad. So we've got we have to see 846 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:49,680 about getting it made. So I don't know, I don't know 847 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,960 how that's going to work at the moment because like tariffs have 848 00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:57,760 kind of like really hurt us. So it'd have to be made in the 849 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,480 US. We were looking at like acrylic 850 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,960 components at one point and now we're looking at paper because 851 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,120 you can just you can actually get paper products made 852 00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,800 domestically. So like more cardboard and stuff 853 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,360 than like nice acrylic. Like pull to get the altitude 854 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,720 tokens be like clear blue like so that you can stack and 855 00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:21,320 they're actually like fitted together so that they they 856 00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,920 almost like a checker, right? Like when you to check with the 857 00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:29,800 little toothy thing, So when you can like locked in a bit, it 858 00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,000 makes it easy moving around. So I don't know, we need 859 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,400 approach a little bit. The main thing though, like I 860 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,120 said before, is with like alternate giving the game just 861 00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,800 for me. So giving it like scenarios like 862 00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:47,000 there's a item that we haven't used that was in the set, but I 863 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:53,200 just took it out was like there's a like a drone like a 864 00:53:53,240 --> 00:53:57,440 sonar drone that you can send out and it has an AOE blast and 865 00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,840 reveals equipment cards. So you're supposed to play with 866 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,480 the cards face down. We were from face up because 867 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:05,600 they were all introductory games. 868 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:10,240 Essentially we're learning to play the way the game is 869 00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:13,560 supposed to be played is your cards that are playing or face 870 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:14,920 down. So you can see that a plane has 871 00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:16,320 stuff, but you don't know what it has. 872 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,400 So this item lets you reveal equipment. 873 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:26,120 So there will be like a like each team has a football and 874 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,520 you're trying to get it like the other side by football. 875 00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,320 I mean like, you know, nuke button like the suitcase, like 876 00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:38,160 you're trying to get it over to like the other teams like base 877 00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:40,880 or something and like blow up, but you don't know which plane 878 00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,320 has it. So it's like, but each person 879 00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:48,960 has one of these like revealing things so you can maybe get a 880 00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,840 better gauge of like where the person's at and like, do you 881 00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:53,680 play aggressive and just try to get over there? 882 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,200 Or do you want to like keep people back to kind of protect 883 00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:02,080 your area or like escort missions or I was also playing 884 00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:09,520 around with, we were playing with a keeping like player like 885 00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,440 progression. So like marking off your kills. 886 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,160 And so once you get X amount, you kind of get these unlock 887 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,280 these units and that's how you like make a pilot better. 888 00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:23,440 Those are also very limited. So like, you know, it still 889 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,360 doesn't like let the game snowball, but it will give you 890 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,280 like a bit of flavor and a little bit of reason to be like 891 00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,080 this is dude, like they're, this is my pilot, right? 892 00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:37,120 Like this guy, he got 3 downs last game and you can pack of it 893 00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:45,160 and then maybe there's a there's a extra jet or something that 894 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:51,440 controlled by like an Oracle that you roll on and it targets 895 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,400 like the best pilot. Like it's like a bounty hunt or 896 00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,360 something. So there's other things that 897 00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,960 we're playing with idea wise like some weather things like 898 00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,680 our initial test we have all these weather and like 899 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,120 condition. Then we ended up stripping them 900 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,960 early side pull all out. So I was like, just makes it 901 00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,320 more complicated, slows it down. And is it actually fun? 902 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,360 Not really. There's one that's like a 903 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:18,280 turbulence one that would move all planes like at the end of 904 00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:22,160 four round one hex in a random direction. 905 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:26,000 And that one was kind of fun because it was like people were 906 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,680 colliding and like into walls and like terrain and blown and 907 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,400 it made it really chaotic. But, you know, like, that might 908 00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:40,440 be a weird optional. So yeah, right now I think I'm 909 00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:45,320 going to keep like, Justin's art is all that ASCII art on it. 910 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,240 It looks. I kind of like it. 911 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,120 So I think we might just it that way. 912 00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:51,840 He's also a bit of a mad scientist. 913 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,240 And I was like, I could see this game being cool and then like 914 00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,880 somebody like ripping it off, making a video game out of it. 915 00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:04,000 So he's making like a digital version that is almost playable 916 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,680 already. So like I'd still want to keep 917 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,520 it a board game though, but there might be a might be a 918 00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:14,560 digital version of it already. Like it's already cooking. 919 00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:20,560 So I love those. I love the I guess bottom, the 920 00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,360 top scrollers or like side scroller kind of shoot them up 921 00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:27,120 like rogue like kind of things like biohazard battle on Sega 922 00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,120 had that where you're like you're a ship, but you're like 923 00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,720 shooting through all of the stuff, but the ones where. 924 00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,400 You're like in 1945 or like in aerial fighters? 925 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,320 Yeah, especially the ones that like would like I said, I guess 926 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,360 bottom, the top where you're going this way and like the 927 00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,000 terrain is coming this way like that. 928 00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,560 The game, when we're playing it kind of gave me those vibes a 929 00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:47,640 little bit too, where it's just like, well, now you got like a 930 00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,040 battleship coming this way and you got to like, you know, do a 931 00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,880 round of things coming at. You it's still the game, it's 932 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,800 still the, it's still the hex board of hexes and the same 933 00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,520 plane, same terrain layout. And like he's got, we've got the 934 00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:07,200 movement down, I think we've got hit detection down and we've got 935 00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:11,960 like the missile showing like the range of the hexes you can 936 00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,640 hit with certain missiles. But you still have to do like 937 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,720 step by step, which was something I was pretty added on 938 00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:21,560 where it's like, I don't just want to see the range of 939 00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,320 missile, I want to see how the missile moves so people learn to 940 00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:27,360 play. Like it's almost like a tutorial 941 00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:34,200 tool in a way for the game. So yeah, I don't know. 942 00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,920 It's been fun working on it. It was really fun, Blake. 943 00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,120 I like playing the game, but I really like watching people play 944 00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:41,960 the game. That's kind of been a surprise 945 00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:47,600 for me watching other people take it and asking me questions 946 00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:53,800 about it and like us figuring it out or watching them figure it 947 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,040 out. And when something clicks and 948 00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,960 they're like, oh, like storing this altitude when you can is 949 00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,680 probably is really good because then you can burn it. 950 00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,240 Oh shit, now I burnt it. Now I'm like a little more 951 00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,600 targetable to somebody else Has been it's been a lot of fun. 952 00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,200 It's been good. Yeah, that's why the play 953 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,360 testing is, I don't know, I love play testing and I love playing 954 00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:22,360 with new people because sometimes people will show you 955 00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,920 something like like when I was playing mine on Tabletop 956 00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,440 Simulator, even small things like I had this dice that I was 957 00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:31,640 I was positive it was AD 12. And I have played the game 958 00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,320 probably 20 times with people telling people that's a because 959 00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,440 it's shaped like a bullet telling people it's AD 12 and 960 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,840 like 25th game, man. I think I played with like Dylan 961 00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:45,080 from from Hill Giant Games and he was like, bro, that's 962 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,360 definitely AD 10. And I was like, how did 20 963 00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:49,880 people not see this before? And that's. 964 00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,880 Just a like 12, right? Yeah. 965 00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:54,560 And it was just like I guess where I was rolling 10s. 966 00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,040 But but the other stuff that people have pointed out or, or 967 00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:59,640 the questions that they've asked, like that's one reason I 968 00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,400 wanted to drop mine is like a ashcan first, because it's had 969 01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,440 two update cents for people asking questions. 970 01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:05,840 And it's just it's really, really cool. 971 01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,320 Like I totally get what you're saying about watching other 972 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,080 people play it or playing with other people and getting the 973 01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,280 questions, because the first thing I thought was like, yeah, 974 01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:13,920 fucking scenarios. That's where this is going to 975 01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:15,600 go. But you know, one thing I like 976 01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:22,320 about how tight thrash is, is as even if you just play it or put 977 01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,680 it out as that, you know, two groups versus two groups like 978 01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:29,680 the battle thing. There's unlimited stuff to do 979 01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,600 for like future releases or or future stuff for without having 980 01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,440 to put too much out now because as it was super fun just playing 981 01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,800 the the core ice works of it. Cool. 982 01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:41,680 Yeah, thanks. Let me ask you about your let me 983 01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,200 ask you about your game here. Like what? 984 01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,600 What made you want to do like kind of a western saloon shoot 985 01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,280 off thing and what made you want to use the violence system? 986 01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:57,600 I don't it was kind of a a fever dream kind of I was actually 987 01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:59,440 talking to. So yeah. 988 01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,040 So my game death cutting stone, it's a it's a hack on violence. 989 01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:06,920 We did the an episode where we went over both of the violence 990 01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:11,320 jam like kind of Prince. I got put out and and violence 991 01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,400 is just such a great system. I I'm a systems guy. 992 01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,400 Like I'll always be kind of leaning more into like the OSR 993 01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:19,400 system stuff than like story game stuff because I like the 994 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:24,160 gamey aspects of it. And violence is just such a cool 995 01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:26,400 violence system. I was actually kind of 996 01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:33,840 spitballing stuff with Chris P Wolf who was put out like, Oh my 997 01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,600 God, why is my brain breaking? We just talked about it last 998 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,880 episode. I'll make sure the links are 999 01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:43,440 below for him though. But off worlders and he started 1000 01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:49,640 kind of doing a ink 28 like over under thing and then but playing 1001 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,360 with violence a little bit. And then I was kind of playing 1002 01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:55,240 with it a little bit and I honestly don't remember why it 1003 01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,680 went. It originally started. 1004 01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:02,320 It was called Tombstone 28 was the name of the game because I 1005 01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:03,720 was just like, this would be great. 1006 01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,200 It's just like a shootout game. So let's see how it would do it. 1007 01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,480 And then I found out there's a game that's called Tombstone 1008 01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,720 already that is a 28mm skirmish game. 1009 01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:15,040 So it had to get changed. And shout out Aaron King, who 1010 01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:16,760 gave me the Warlock quote for the game. 1011 01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:18,440 But that was kind of, I don't remember. 1012 01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,920 It just kind of was just like a thing that hit my brain and I 1013 01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,240 was kind of like bouncing mechanics back and forth with 1014 01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:27,240 Chris and and it just kind of spit out. 1015 01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,440 And then I just kind of iterated on it from there. 1016 01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,480 And it just kind of turned into kind of what it turned into. 1017 01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,480 But yeah, it's it's just hyper violent. 1018 01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,840 And that's kind of the point is to show how fucking stupid it is 1019 01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,480 to be dumb enough to to pull a gun and just everybody dies 1020 01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:42,960 around you. And at the end of the game, 1021 01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:44,280 you're probably going to die too. 1022 01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:45,920 And, and that's the thing I love about it. 1023 01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,080 And I also wanted to design it. The other thing about violence 1024 01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:51,760 is it's super fast. Like one of the great things 1025 01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:55,080 about using the violence system and teach RB GS is it makes it 1026 01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:59,360 great for like more kind of like politically kind of stuff or 1027 01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,840 like intrigue stuff because you know, as soon as you interact 1028 01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,320 with that system, everyone dies. So you try to stay away from it. 1029 01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,840 And my thought was what if you did the opposite of that? 1030 01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,480 What if like the point is for it to be ultraviolent? 1031 01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:15,280 And so that's that's what I wanted to do is kind of show 1032 01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,120 that. But I also wanted to have it be 1033 01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,080 a short, quick game. So like if you're playing more 1034 01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,680 time or if you're playing some bigger game and you're at like 1035 01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,040 under the dice or something and you got like 20-30 minutes until 1036 01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:26,040 your next game. You could just bust out death 1037 01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:28,480 cutting stone, run a quick game in like 1520 minutes and then 1038 01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:30,280 hop into your bigger game. So those are kind of the 1039 01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:32,760 reasons. Yeah, that's kind of why I did 1040 01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,280 that. Yeah, that's cool. 1041 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:36,960 I'm glad you dropped 28 from the time. 1042 01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:40,640 It's kind of like become the Borg of Yeah, yeah. 1043 01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,560 Yeah, yeah, over there. Yeah. 1044 01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:45,120 I mean, it was. That was always just the working 1045 01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:46,440 title. I mean, there's literally, 1046 01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:48,400 there's tombstone references throughout the whole thing too, 1047 01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:49,520 though. There's like a reference in the 1048 01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:52,360 beginning about like skin in the smoke wagon and all that kind of 1049 01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:53,600 stuff. I dropped a lot of those kind of 1050 01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:56,360 like tombstone references out of it, but have you? 1051 01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,920 Shown it to Luke. I, I did, I sent it to him and I 1052 01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,360 got his address too, because I, I asked him if I could send him 1053 01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,840 a copy of the of like the physical ashcan because I was 1054 01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:08,520 just like, I think it's cool to own physical ashcans. 1055 01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:13,640 I'd love if you made it or if I could send you one that would be 1056 01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:15,280 really cool. So he sent me his address and 1057 01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:17,960 and yeah, I sent him a, a link to it and stuff and, and he said 1058 01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,080 it was cool and I asked him for if I could use the violence logo 1059 01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:23,480 in it and stuff like that. So and, and he said yeah, and 1060 01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,600 sent it to me. So and the violence logo already 1061 01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,520 is like a, a western guy too. So that kind of helped, I think 1062 01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,560 with the inspiration. So but yeah, it'll, it'll come 1063 01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:33,280 out soon. I mean, will will Rd. from 1064 01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:35,520 Forbidden Psalm did all the layout for it. 1065 01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:39,120 I got Ville, who's also done a lot of work for Forbidden Psalm 1066 01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,080 stuff, to do all the art for it. Yeah. 1067 01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,040 Phil. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1068 01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:47,360 He's incredible. And he definitely turned it into 1069 01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:51,920 this, like, I don't know, kind of like gothic horror kind of 1070 01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:54,320 aspect to it, which which made it even more brutal. 1071 01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:56,840 Yeah. Sometimes Phil's stuff is like, 1072 01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,920 kind of that it's very wispy. It's got like a lot of like 1073 01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,840 tenderly, like darkness, like, yeah. 1074 01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,000 So I was kind of, I'd be interested to see how, yeah. 1075 01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,280 I mean, I can, I can send you some of the art pieces. 1076 01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:12,440 But one of the things I talked to Will about and talked to Will 1077 01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,760 about too, is like I said, the whole point of the game, kind of 1078 01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:19,000 like in its undertone, is that not to glorify violence, but to 1079 01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:20,760 show how fucking stupid it is because everyone dies. 1080 01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,280 So all of the art pieces in it are after violence. 1081 01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:27,680 There's nothing like leading up to violence or there's nothing 1082 01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:31,040 where like violence is actively happening. 1083 01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,440 It's all like someone dead on the ground or someone like 1084 01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:36,760 already shot and dying or like something that's like full of 1085 01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:38,960 bullet holes. So it's always post violence, 1086 01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,240 every piece of art in it. So that's awesome. 1087 01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:43,920 That was kind of one of the things, yeah. 1088 01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:45,360 So. Yeah. 1089 01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,040 Like hold that's in. It's like holding, you know, 1090 01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:51,440 like showing that it's all bad times. 1091 01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,120 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1092 01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:55,600 That's awesome. So I'm excited as soon as as 1093 01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:57,240 soon as I actually say, I mean, it's basically done. 1094 01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:59,400 I just have to actually like get my brain to sit down and make 1095 01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:02,320 like a like a posse sheet so people can track their 1096 01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:05,840 characters and then like just clean up some parts that I've 1097 01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:07,760 like updated and I'll release it. 1098 01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:09,360 So I could do it. I could release it tomorrow if I 1099 01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:11,000 would just get my brain to sit down and do it. 1100 01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,240 But we'll see. We'll see when it actually 1101 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:15,040 happens. But yeah, I was, I was glad 1102 01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:18,920 that, you know, we all got to play at PAX cuz it was 1103 01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:20,960 interesting about it is I've never played with more than two 1104 01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:22,520 people, but we played with four people. 1105 01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,720 So we played with like half the game, but everyone died just as 1106 01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:27,120 fast. Like it literally I think it 1107 01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:29,320 started maybe the beginning of the third round and everyone was 1108 01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:30,320 dead. So I was like, it's cool to know 1109 01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,000 that like if 100 people play the game, the way the math works, 1110 01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,480 like you're still all going to die by like the third round, so. 1111 01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:41,440 Yeah, yeah. But that'd be yeah, that'd be 1112 01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:45,960 something to have like saloon where like everyone just has, 1113 01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:50,200 but you've got a bunch of people that don't mind sitting around 1114 01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:53,040 and waiting because there is a little bit of waiting, you know, 1115 01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:54,360 especially you've got a lot of players. 1116 01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:58,280 But like having people buy into it and like build up some kind 1117 01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:04,640 of and actually have like a like a little battle Royale of Royal 1118 01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,240 in a in a saloon. And maybe I start at side some 1119 01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:12,240 inside that could be cool. Like have a cool play report, 1120 01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:14,920 make a book out of that, make a scene play. 1121 01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,120 Maybe, yeah, if you had two people instead of two people 1122 01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:22,000 having war bands of five, if you just had 10 people, like with 1123 01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:23,840 two groups like that would be pretty sick. 1124 01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,240 But one of the things that's been fun about is kind of what 1125 01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,640 you said is like every time I play with someone, pretty much 1126 01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:31,520 everyone goes, I could think of like what if you did it like 1127 01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:33,480 with a gallows? Or what if you did it in a 1128 01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:34,960 saloon? Or what if you did it like on a 1129 01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:38,080 train And I'm like Z number two. I'm not even talking with it. 1130 01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:40,920 I'm putting out the base gain. And then everyone that's came up 1131 01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:42,920 with an idea for a scenario, I'm like, dope, I already have an 1132 01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,440 idea for for saving a guy on the gallows. 1133 01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:48,680 I have an idea for on top of a train car that's all futuresy 1134 01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:50,080 and stuff. I just want to get the core shit 1135 01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:55,800 out and and start with it. That's that's bad, yeah. 1136 01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:59,280 I think it'd be fun to be like on top of a train like no guns. 1137 01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,360 Everyone says to use some melee rules and you're trying to like 1138 01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:03,080 get to the front of the train or something. 1139 01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:06,880 So, but yeah, but that's it. I mean, that's, that's the first 1140 01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:08,480 thing. And then I'm working on my, my 1141 01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:13,360 goals of 2026 is A to be better than 2025, but B is to put out 1142 01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:18,160 death cutting stone. And I'm working on a, a sumo 1143 01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,840 skirmish game. I'm a, I'm a big, big sumo fan. 1144 01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:23,880 So I'm I'm really trying to put together something that I. 1145 01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,040 Feel I feel the sumo thing kind of hit everybody at the same 1146 01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:33,439 because like that's one thing we're found a dude who would 1147 01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:37,760 stream it on twit and like talk about what's happening and kind 1148 01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:40,720 of got enthralled with it. Kind of became our like like a 1149 01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:44,080 Saturday night thing or something where we're watching 1150 01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,720 exhibitions with like nobody in the audience, like some of the 1151 01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:51,319 big tournaments. And I've just randomly meet 1152 01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:55,920 people like, you know, I was in like Santa Fe had a ball and 1153 01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,960 like someone was talking sumo. And as we just talking about 1154 01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,520 sumo, like my buddy Devin just got really in the sumo. 1155 01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:05,560 Like I not just but like for the past years, I just found out. 1156 01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,279 It's kind of it's interesting kind of all hit at the same 1157 01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:10,040 time. It's cool. 1158 01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:11,640 I love it. Yeah. 1159 01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:14,920 I got super deep in a sumo at like this time last year. 1160 01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:18,760 Like I, I got into the end of 2023 and at the start of 2024, 1161 01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:22,040 the first tournament I really like sat down and, and got deep 1162 01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,319 into was the January tournament in 2024 and, or in 2025. 1163 01:09:25,319 --> 01:09:27,920 And man, last year was a crazy year for sumo. 1164 01:09:28,279 --> 01:09:31,880 So my my goal with the with my skirmish game is to give people 1165 01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,880 an intro to sumo so they actually understand like the 1166 01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:38,160 history and culture of sumo and like the basic rules of sumo as 1167 01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:41,000 almost like an intro to like actually watching sumo. 1168 01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,120 So I want to use like all real terms. 1169 01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,600 I want to get like a Japanese artist to do all the art for it 1170 01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,479 like and have it literally be like an intro to sumo and have 1171 01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,279 like a sumo skirmish game. So I already have like some 3D 1172 01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:54,520 printed sumo minis. I got like a like a doyo printed 1173 01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:57,480 out so people can like play in like the the sumo ring. 1174 01:09:57,480 --> 01:10:00,480 So that's my goal is to is to finish death cutting stone and 1175 01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:04,880 and get the working title is sumo 28, which will obviously 1176 01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:07,640 change, but that's what's going to happen with that. 1177 01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:09,880 But that's it. Yeah, Sumo Borg. 1178 01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:14,120 Yeah, that'll be the hag have. You seen Smackdown, there's a 1179 01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:17,640 skirt wrestling game that came out on Kick. 1180 01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:19,200 It was Kick started. I got it. 1181 01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:24,160 I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but they had got like 4 1182 01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:28,760 books. 1 is like full of submission holes or something 1183 01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:31,920 and it's all like you can like a ring. 1184 01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:34,240 They got an STL for a ring and you got your dude. 1185 01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,840 It's like a, it's like a professional playing. 1186 01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:42,040 That sounds sick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So check that 1187 01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:43,320 out. It looks awesome. 1188 01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,080 I flipped. I've read the bit of the first 1189 01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,680 book, like the core book. It seems fun. 1190 01:10:49,480 --> 01:10:51,240 I haven't gotten into like there's I think there's like a 1191 01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:54,160 cage like a death mat like supplement. 1192 01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:56,040 They all came out the same time too. 1193 01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:59,360 So like there is this Kickstarter and I don't know if 1194 01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:01,440 they would like the stretch goals I'm trying to remember, 1195 01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:07,440 but yeah, I got like 4 like less letter size staple bound books 1196 01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:12,040 in the in the mail and this thing finally fulfilled. 1197 01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,240 I shouldn't say fine because it wasn't late by any means. 1198 01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:18,480 It actually fulfilled really. But finally, because I was 1199 01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:23,920 waiting for it, I wanted it. But I got it and 4:00 is way 1200 01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,240 more than I thought I was going to get and it seemed really 1201 01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:29,120 cool. Yeah, that sounds so cool. 1202 01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:36,560 Yeah, it's it's it's interesting like trying to do cuz again, I'm 1203 01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:39,040 newer to the scene and and violence is really a hack of 1204 01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:40,400 another system. But trying to think of a way to 1205 01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:44,840 do like A1V1 skirmish game is a little bit it's definitely a 1206 01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,800 different mindset than having like a whole war band to be able 1207 01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:49,440 to kind of like balance stuff out with. 1208 01:11:49,440 --> 01:11:50,680 So it's been it's been interesting. 1209 01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:54,880 But I know that Tyler Welsh who wrote like ex and Ferris and 1210 01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:58,760 stuff, he's been working on a like a little wrestling skirmish 1211 01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:00,600 game. That's been cool to see, see him 1212 01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:02,240 working on that. So it'd be I definitely check 1213 01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:03,360 out Smackdown. That sounds awesome. 1214 01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:09,480 I mean, it's like they are. It's cool to like I want to say 1215 01:12:09,480 --> 01:12:12,560 it might be Brad Evet or it looks a lot like Brad Mcdevitt 1216 01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:19,120 from DC, but there's a cool pen and ink work in it it it's nice. 1217 01:12:21,480 --> 01:12:24,440 Definitely check it out. Knock down by Brainless 1218 01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:27,200 creations is that it? Might be or Smack down 1st 1219 01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,960 edition by John Carroll. Oh dude the artist sick. 1220 01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:33,360 He's getting like his head hidden with like a chair on the 1221 01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:34,280 front. Is that that one? 1222 01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:36,160 Yeah, yeah, there's four of them. 1223 01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:37,160 I mean, there's four of the books. 1224 01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:41,200 I think they're, I think close by. 1225 01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:45,600 I can Figure 1. Yeah, we'll definitely, we'll 1226 01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:47,760 definitely chat about it. Yeah, I just go on my 1227 01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:53,160 Kickstarter page here and see what it is. 1228 01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:57,400 Yeah, I mean it's been fun. Like I said, it definitely re 1229 01:12:57,440 --> 01:13:02,640 working on that and especially when we did the violence episode 1230 01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:04,360 where we we talked to all that stuff. 1231 01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:07,880 I was like, this is this is what I want to see more of in kind of 1232 01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:10,600 teach RPG space, because people were just like this isn't like a 1233 01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:12,240 big polished thing. This is literally just a new 1234 01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:15,200 womb system that I can use or this is a setting for it or this 1235 01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,920 is just like, you know, Blark did an adventure for it with 1236 01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:22,520 with with swine and and a bunch of really cool stuff. 1237 01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:26,960 And like CJ from from hot head collective that put out Glaive 1238 01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:30,640 had a had a really gorgeous thing in in the violence 1239 01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:32,640 collection too. So that's the stuff where I was 1240 01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:34,320 like this is this feels really cool. 1241 01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:36,960 This is things that aren't like super polished but are really 1242 01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:40,360 cool and look fantastic. So it. 1243 01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:44,840 Yeah, smack down Terminal Velocity by John Carroll. 1244 01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:50,800 Yeah. And it was, yeah, it was quite 1245 01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:54,120 a, quite a few, a few supplements, much more than I 1246 01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:57,040 was expecting that got my definitely got my money's worth 1247 01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:02,360 out of it, that's for sure. There's just so much cool stuff 1248 01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:07,200 in in the space that people just making like the weirdest stuff. 1249 01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:10,280 I mean, there's one that I want to play with that Adam vats told 1250 01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:13,280 me about because Adam is is getting deep in a skirmish now 1251 01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:17,160 and which is really awesome because Adam's brain with TTRPGS 1252 01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:19,560 is, you know, we've always said we're an Adam vast and podcast. 1253 01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:23,640 Well, there's one called meat where where you're basically 1254 01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:27,400 like in a cabin and you're trying to stop like the zombie 1255 01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:30,280 horde from like getting into your cabin and stuff that looks 1256 01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:31,880 really cool. And they have these STL files 1257 01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:34,160 where like there's basically like no walls. 1258 01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:36,320 You just have the floor of the cabin and then like the windows 1259 01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:38,840 and the doors. And so it looks really neat with 1260 01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:40,520 the way they set that up. So there's just so much 1261 01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:44,040 different crazy like Snack 28 from Fiver has where it's 1262 01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:48,040 literally like you're like a gingerbread man and stuff doing 1263 01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,960 stuff and you're fighting like in this, you know, kind of like 1264 01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:56,680 Wonderland World, but you're eating the other candy people. 1265 01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:59,920 So you can like, you know, heal yourself by cannibalizing stuff. 1266 01:14:59,920 --> 01:15:01,600 So it's a cannibal game, but you're all candy. 1267 01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:03,360 So is it cannibalism? I don't know. 1268 01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:06,160 There's just such amazing stuff out that you know that that, 1269 01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:07,840 like I said, it really reinvigorated my love for 1270 01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:11,800 tabletop and, and all the people in the space are have just been 1271 01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:15,080 so chill and so kind and, and it's been it's been cool to kind 1272 01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,800 of move into that space. It's always great when Adam 1273 01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:22,280 shows up to the scene too, because like, I'll just get like 1274 01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:26,520 the maddest, craziest ideas out there and look really good. 1275 01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:31,240 And even, you know, like, even if the game like isn't for you, 1276 01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,120 it's just good to know that that game exists. 1277 01:15:34,440 --> 01:15:41,680 Like somebody like reached out and touched that that weird 1278 01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:47,320 subject or that like odd gameplay mechanic that he comes 1279 01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:51,520 up with. And I mean, there's there's all 1280 01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:54,080 these I really feel that there's probably all these secret like 1281 01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:57,880 nerves in even the role, like the role-playing game scene, 1282 01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:01,080 right, where like you can probably follow a lot of these 1283 01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:04,320 nerve for new game systems or like innovations. 1284 01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:09,560 There's some string going back to something weird that Adam did 1285 01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:13,160 and experiments with some of them are amazing. 1286 01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:16,600 Some of them are just fun and like quick ideas that he gets 1287 01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:18,800 down. But just somebody who is out 1288 01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,120 there like just putting these little things, these little 1289 01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:25,920 ideas, just trying these little eat like everything from 1/2 1290 01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:29,880 baked idea that just wants to get out there and play with it 1291 01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:32,640 to something like Necronautilus or. 1292 01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:37,440 Yeah. More fleshed out or like the 1293 01:16:37,440 --> 01:16:40,480 board game, the slasher one, the 19 what was it, 19? 1294 01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:45,560 1978 yeah, yeah, I mean this thing about Adam they're they're 1295 01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:47,480 a person that should be a million times bigger in the 1296 01:16:47,480 --> 01:16:49,480 space that they are, but they're definitely one of the like your 1297 01:16:49,480 --> 01:16:51,440 favorite game designers, favorite game designers, people 1298 01:16:51,440 --> 01:16:54,240 who, you know the number of people that you'll meet and they 1299 01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:56,400 just go Nick or Nautilus and they go oh shit, yeah, that 1300 01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:57,720 broke my brain, you know what I mean? 1301 01:16:57,720 --> 01:16:59,720 Like is what else? Things. 1302 01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:02,720 You know, you turn up with Will a lot Will. 1303 01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:06,920 Like I got a few books from Will at packs that were like pretty 1304 01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:10,720 out there. Like the monster fucker game. 1305 01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:13,800 Yeah, awesome. Like just yeah, it's incredible. 1306 01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:16,800 Like. You know, somebody made this as 1307 01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:21,680 like, it's great. Then I got another one that I 1308 01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:25,400 started to read, but I haven't, it would seem like a lot. 1309 01:17:25,440 --> 01:17:28,760 So I kind of put it aside until like I could have a little bit 1310 01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:30,880 of breathing room, but it was one of the big like envelope 1311 01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:34,120 game. Like a it's like a stuff like a 1312 01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:35,960 trail. That's the one. 1313 01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:42,000 Yeah, yeah, it is like, wow. Like that's, that's something 1314 01:17:42,440 --> 01:17:44,760 special. And torque. 1315 01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:48,600 Torque is cool. Torque is Torque is so fucking 1316 01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:50,120 cool. Torque is one of those ones that 1317 01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:54,600 like straddles the line between like board game and TRPG and 1318 01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:57,840 skirmish game and it's it's so fucking good. 1319 01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:00,880 I think it was one of our games of the year last year, like just 1320 01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:02,880 because it's amazing. But yeah, I'd like, you know, 1321 01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:05,720 the they do the brain trust podcast and, you know, one of 1322 01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:12,400 the Kickstarters they did for oh, it's right there. 1323 01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:17,040 It's like the A guide to casting phantoms was something that they 1324 01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:21,280 did the Kickstarter for and then did the whole like iterations of 1325 01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:23,880 it, like on the podcast. Like the brain trust podcast 1326 01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:26,720 with those two is, is incredible and is always inspiring to 1327 01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,080 listen to. So yeah, I mean, good luck press 1328 01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:32,760 is is Will Yelpst and set Pines and then Adam Vass for those 1329 01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:35,480 that if you listen to the show and you somehow haven't heard us 1330 01:18:35,480 --> 01:18:36,920 talk about Adam Bass, I'd be shocked. 1331 01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:40,960 But world champ Gameco. But yeah, he's been building 1332 01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:44,120 terrain and and, and talking about skirmish and stuff and I'm 1333 01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:46,200 like, dude, I'm so happy because I've been trying to get him into 1334 01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:48,920 it for like a couple months and be like, you should check this 1335 01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:49,920 out. You should check this out, You 1336 01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:53,720 should check this out. And and finally something 1337 01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:55,760 clicked a little bit and he was just like, dude, I'm doing this. 1338 01:18:56,040 --> 01:19:00,000 And then he'll have like I had this idea day where he was like 1339 01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:02,240 just 10 things I want to do and I'm like, this is perfect. 1340 01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:04,400 I love this. This is like, you know, peak 1341 01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,640 atom bass. So yeah, you're right. 1342 01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:09,800 Like every yeah, right. Yeah. 1343 01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:13,000 So I don't know, I can't wait. I can't wait to see what what 1344 01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:14,360 world champ comes out with this year. 1345 01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:18,640 And I don't know, 2026 we're let's I want it to be better 1346 01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:21,080 than 2025. We'll see how that goes. 1347 01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:23,840 But. You know, we just got, we just 1348 01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,120 got to stick together and support each other and help each 1349 01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:31,600 other out and give each other a little when we're grumpy and fed 1350 01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:35,840 up with the universe. Yeah, You know, like. 1351 01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:40,040 Yeah, I mean, one of the things I want to do this year, Yeah, 1352 01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,360 one of the. So I I one of my biggest 1353 01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:43,400 problems, and we'll just get this. 1354 01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:45,440 I hate where I live. There's nothing here. 1355 01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,080 There is no culture. There is no anything. 1356 01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:52,360 Yeah, so. I have very limited choices of 1357 01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:55,880 people like I've got some buddies that I play games with, 1358 01:19:57,080 --> 01:20:00,440 you know, we're all Blake busy and everything is ebbs and flows 1359 01:20:00,440 --> 01:20:04,440 and right now, like one just had a kid one's like, you know, 1360 01:20:04,440 --> 01:20:07,560 taking care of their folks. One's like, you know, so it's it 1361 01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:12,200 just isn't at the moment with me and my schedule, but you know, I 1362 01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:15,440 got like an OK game stool. It's not like. 1363 01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:18,040 Super great. But I mean, there's also, you 1364 01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:19,880 know, I have to drive like an hour and a half to go see a 1365 01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:23,160 show. Like, yeah, there's no good. 1366 01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:25,600 Restaurants are kind of weak and it sucks. 1367 01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:26,400 Yeah. And and. 1368 01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:29,600 Yeah, same thing. I mean, my, my like 3 friends at 1369 01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:32,280 work, like 2 of them just had a kid and one of them is like 1370 01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:34,800 having a second kid. So it's just like, OK, give me 1371 01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:36,760 like 3 years and I'm down to play stuff. 1372 01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:39,280 And then yeah, we have surprisingly less than a mile 1373 01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:41,280 from my house there's a Warhammer store, which is cool, 1374 01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:44,440 but all they do is Kill Team and you can't do it's Warhammer. 1375 01:20:44,440 --> 01:20:47,240 It's not like a game store. So you can't do any, can't go 1376 01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:52,080 play cauldron in there and I paint with fucking enamels and 1377 01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:53,360 oils. So I can't go paint in there 1378 01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,080 because I'm not going to have like fucking, you know, white 1379 01:20:56,080 --> 01:20:57,360 spirits. Yeah. 1380 01:20:57,360 --> 01:21:01,080 So and then just hours away from everything else. 1381 01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:05,200 So like my goal for 2026 is just way more cons, like way more of 1382 01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:07,120 those little cons. Like I'm definitely going to 1383 01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:08,520 under the dice fest. Definitely have to go to 1384 01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:10,040 Adepticon. There's a cool thing happening 1385 01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:12,280 in a couple weeks in, in January. 1386 01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:14,880 So like every little thing I can go to that might be a weekend. 1387 01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:18,080 I know there's like a PDX con is happening in February, like 1388 01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:19,560 everyone that I can get a weekend off for. 1389 01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:21,320 I don't care. Like I'm working extra just so I 1390 01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:24,520 can fly to to see all these people that I talked to online. 1391 01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:28,920 But I'm also encouraging people. I like Tabletop Simulator. 1392 01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:30,680 Yeah. Oh, dude, between two Cairns 1393 01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:32,800 con, I can't wait for that. Yeah. 1394 01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:35,240 Between 2 cons. Yeah, between two cons. 1395 01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:36,680 Yeah, well, now there's three of them. 1396 01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:38,680 So when are they going to become between 3 Cairns? 1397 01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:40,520 That's what I want to know. I like it. 1398 01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:45,120 Just yes, that's what I think is one of the best, those guys. 1399 01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:49,000 Yeah, we we talked about, you know, Hunter hunter likes 1400 01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:51,280 adventures and we talked about kind of doing adventures on the 1401 01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:54,080 show, but I'm just like, I don't really use them and there's 1402 01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:57,320 already between two Cairns. So like, why would we do 1403 01:21:57,320 --> 01:22:00,720 something that's not going to be as good as a fucking those three 1404 01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:04,920 talking about adventure. So, but yeah, that's the goal, 1405 01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:06,360 like. Not Brad. 1406 01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:08,600 Right. Don't have? 1407 01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:11,080 Victor is a he's a gift. He's a treasure. 1408 01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:14,240 Yeah, that, it cracks me up. He's just as funny. 1409 01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:18,760 It's I don't know. Yeah, so they're we we 1410 01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,320 definitely are. I definitely listen to podcasts 1411 01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:23,400 that are way better than us. So if you listen to us, you 1412 01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:26,760 definitely need to check out Between two Cairns, Hive, Scum, 1413 01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:29,640 brain trust. What else have I been listening 1414 01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:31,200 to? Like Daiku has a lot of really 1415 01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:32,360 cool stuff out there. But. 1416 01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:35,080 But yeah, that's the goal of the year is to see all these people. 1417 01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:37,400 I also love Tabletop simulator. I keep trying to get people to 1418 01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:40,440 play more in TTS and I think everyone thinks there's a bigger 1419 01:22:40,440 --> 01:22:41,800 learning curve than there is to it. 1420 01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:44,800 But I'm like pro, I'll play. I also work night shift, which 1421 01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:49,160 does not help with the schedule, but, but I'm building like every 1422 01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:51,960 board and cauldron so I can try to do a cauldron campaign and, 1423 01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:53,800 and, you know, trying to do a lot of stuff in there. 1424 01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:57,920 So just if anyone wants to play war games hopping to our discord 1425 01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:01,720 and and and come play TTS cuz that that's what we got. 1426 01:23:03,440 --> 01:23:11,000 Yeah, yeah, no, it's yeah, 2026. Let's I just hoping to get back 1427 01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:16,800 into this one myself, like just get back into creating and maybe 1428 01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:20,800 not even do some games at least for some personal work like 1429 01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:25,960 Magic the Gathering totes sort of I think knocked me out of a 1430 01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:28,120 Funko. It just doing something 1431 01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:30,360 different, kind of like with Black Knight, right, Like it was 1432 01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:33,600 different. So it kind of like is a restart 1433 01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:37,400 for the brain. So yeah, I don't know, maybe 1434 01:23:37,440 --> 01:23:41,080 work art books and comics and stuff like that. 1435 01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:45,640 And I still buy a lot of undergrounds and a lot of small 1436 01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:49,600 press books. Maybe I'll do some something 1437 01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:50,920 along those. I don't know. 1438 01:23:52,440 --> 01:23:55,400 But yeah, it's got to be. It's got to be. 1439 01:23:56,560 --> 01:24:00,920 It's better than 2025. And you would, and you would 1440 01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:04,360 think, I mean, 2025 for me at least was the worst year since 1441 01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:06,400 2020. So I mean, I, I think there's 1442 01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:09,400 really only up from here, but we'll, we'll see how it goes. 1443 01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:11,560 But like you said, I mean, I think a lot of people kind of 1444 01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:14,640 hit that point. And I think a lot of people are 1445 01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:16,640 kind of feeling the same way we're feeling where it's like, 1446 01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:21,240 OK, like, even if the world's not better, like we need to kind 1447 01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:26,640 of collectively pull each other up and, and kind of work on, you 1448 01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:29,560 know, building those communities again and, and, and reaching out 1449 01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:32,320 to people and, and giving some grace to people that deserve it. 1450 01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:36,560 And, and, you know, that's definitely a, a goal in 2026 is, 1451 01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:39,480 you know, make more friends, keep more friends, build more 1452 01:24:39,480 --> 01:24:42,240 community and, and really, you know. 1453 01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:47,160 Yeah, you know, let the world crush you when it gets bad. 1454 01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:51,800 You know you can only do so much until you got to pick yourself 1455 01:24:51,880 --> 01:25:01,520 up, kind of start pushing back and like building the core, like 1456 01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:05,920 re strengthening your not just your body core, but your mental 1457 01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:12,600 core, right and start getting getting back into the community 1458 01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:15,760 and getting getting back with that inspire you. 1459 01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:18,320 I think that's the big thing, right, Is like getting like 1460 01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:24,640 getting the fire back is sort of the my goal for 2026 is getting 1461 01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:29,160 the spark like relay that part. Yeah, get some stuff. 1462 01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:31,640 That's fun. It sounds like you're on the 1463 01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:35,280 track and I feel the same way. Like I said, finding the 1464 01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:38,640 skirmish community, finding all of that. 1465 01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:42,000 And what's cool too is like, I mean, again, you kind of started 1466 01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:44,520 our, I just looked it up. You were, I think the, the third 1467 01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:46,920 episode of the year, the 1st guest we had on for the year. 1468 01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:50,400 So now this is their tradition. You got to come back and be the 1469 01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:55,080 1st guest of the year next year. But, but what's, it was funny 1470 01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:57,240 too, because again, when you first came on the show, you 1471 01:25:57,240 --> 01:25:59,280 reached out to us and I never, I was like, you know, David 1472 01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:01,560 Austin's not really a fan because no one's really a fan of 1473 01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:02,800 us. It's definitely the imposter 1474 01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:05,000 syndrome. But then I start listening to to 1475 01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:07,320 hive scum and every cool thing that was going on. 1476 01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:08,920 They're like, oh, by the way, David Hoskins is here. 1477 01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:10,480 And I'm like, that's, that's super cool. 1478 01:26:10,480 --> 01:26:14,080 So having you know, Someone Like You, being able to reach out to 1479 01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:16,920 who's, who's an incredible artist is an incredible person 1480 01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:19,120 who's also in the skirmish scene and stuff like that. 1481 01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:22,880 You know, you're the kind of people that that are going to 1482 01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:26,280 make 2026 better for people. So I appreciate you coming on 1483 01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:28,400 and being here and doing all the things you do. 1484 01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:29,760 It's it's been really good talking to you. 1485 01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:32,920 Thanks. Yeah, man, anytime like Outlook, 1486 01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:36,880 do another hangout or we'll do a recap or you know, if there's 1487 01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:39,600 anything you want to talk about, I'm around like. 1488 01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:42,200 Yeah, I'll shoot you a text this time and then we'll figure. 1489 01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:46,880 It out yeah Instagram I don't like people like Instagram I 1490 01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:52,120 don't get any notifications I try not to check it all that 1491 01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:58,760 much my mental health so Naomi or text me it's the best way to. 1492 01:26:58,920 --> 01:27:00,920 Go, I'll do, yeah, I'll, I'll get you a certified letter. 1493 01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:05,840 But so for, for, for all the stuff you're working on, 1494 01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:08,360 obviously people can find, you know, EF and stuff like that. 1495 01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:10,640 But since you're getting back into freelance and everything, 1496 01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:11,880 where can people find your stuff? 1497 01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:13,880 Where can people find you and and all of that? 1498 01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:18,320 Yeah, so I also got to read like my website realized I hadn't 1499 01:27:18,440 --> 01:27:20,800 updated for like 15 years or things. 1500 01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:25,040 So I think I I kind of naked it and it's just that like a list 1501 01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:29,040 of things that I've done, like a little bit of an RPGCV, but you 1502 01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:31,920 can find them out there at davidhoskins.com or you can just 1503 01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:35,080 add David Hoskins for the most part, like Instagram blue. 1504 01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:40,720 I those are about it. And I do something wise and Even 1505 01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:43,120 so like pretty big. But yeah, you can reach out 1506 01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:47,280 there or just tell me through my website or David Hoskins art 1507 01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:54,040 email.com is my easiest fact. So yeah, just reach out, try my 1508 01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:57,080 best to get back to you. That's another thing, your New 1509 01:27:57,080 --> 01:28:01,200 Year's resolution, be better about replying to messages 1510 01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:03,960 there. You go. 1511 01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:07,240 Well, we're, we're only yeah, we're three days in. 1512 01:28:07,240 --> 01:28:09,480 I'll shoot you an e-mail and a text and we'll see how it goes. 1513 01:28:09,480 --> 01:28:14,240 But it's always a pleasure talking with you. 1514 01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:16,240 Let's let's have a couple more of these throughout the year. 1515 01:28:16,240 --> 01:28:17,880 Maybe we'll get Hunter on for one of them. 1516 01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:19,880 And. And yeah, again, thank you so 1517 01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:21,120 much for being here. Yeah. 1518 01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:23,240 Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me see you 1519 01:28:23,240 --> 01:28:23,480 guys. Cool. 1520 01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:25,520 Yeah, alright. Have a good one everybody. 1521 01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:25,840 Bye.