Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll Podcast.
My name is Ryan and with me is the incomparable David Hoskins.
How you doing this morning, David?
Doing good, correct? You know, you know what I just
realized as I ran away for a second came back before we
started the stream, is this is technically going to be the
second episode of 2025. And I'm pretty sure you guys
were the second episode of 2024. I think the Swivers like you and
Luke Gearing when it was like one of the first episodes.
Yeah, cool. I could be completely wrong, but
we get to start the year twice in a row with with David
Hoskins. So how's it going?
So nice. We did it twice.
Right. There we go.
Yeah, I'm good. Enjoying a little bit of
downtime before things start back up again on Monday, you
know, with like work and being on a schedule, it's been it's
been a good couple weeks of a little a little bit more free
time, a little bit more time to relax.
So looking forward back at the swing of it though, so.
You guys got to take a couple weeks off over the holidays?
Yeah, like what he kind of staggers there like time off a
bit, a few meetings and stuff that I have to do over at
Exalted Funeral. But for the most part, you know,
and like a little bit of a quiet time or people can take time off
and spend time with fam and stuff.
And I like to try to stay on top of things because, you know,
things stop moving if you're not there.
So I just manage my time a bit better without having to do
meetings and stuff like that. So there you go.
It's been nice, yeah. And, and you mentioned Exalted
Funeral, I guess for those that might not know who David Hoskins
is, like who, who the heck is David Hoskins?
And and why? Why do you bring up Exalted
Funeral? Yeah, so I'm David Hoskins.
I do illustration and some design work for Temple Top
role-playing games, but I'm also the art director over at Exalted
Funeral. So whenever we got it, got a lot
of projects going like we always do.
So it's a lot of back and forth with creators and helping them
like find good fits for art and also like making, making sure
everyone stays on task for the most part.
Getting a little bit of my comeuppance though, with me
being late projects, being the late artist.
Now I have to deal with like other artists and for the most
part everybody I work with is really good though.
Like haven't really, I haven't had any super nightmare stories.
Everyone's been pretty sick to work with.
So yeah, it's been been good I think.
Been doing it for three years now.
Been in the position officially. Been our director at EF for
three years now. I don't know if I knew that last
year that that's what that's what you're doing when you came
on to talk about swipers. Yeah, yeah, like and it ate up
it's it's been eaten up a little bit more of my time.
So I've been taking like less freelance.
That's pretty pronounced freelance for a quite a while
during Swivers particular particularly was a rough
experience just with yeah, there we go.
Yeah, it's currently sold out, but I think that we're doing a
Mel Sunny is doing another print run.
So yeah, pick up your copy of Swipers.
It's awesome book. But now I just had like a lot
going on. There's like family left going
on and like health issues and you just like compile a bunch of
things compounded on that one kind of burnt me out pretty
good. So for the past year after
servers I've been laying low and just doing EF stuff, but now I'm
getting back and doing more freelance and doing more
personal work, so that's been fun.
That's awesome. I mean, it's great that you have
the option to like take some time off and have, you know, the
other stuff at the EF and you know, as art director over
there. What, what, what do you do
there? I know you said you kind of deal
with artists, but like, how much do you actually input the art
that goes into individual projects?
Or is it like an overall kind of aesthetic thing or, or what do
you? Do so with a company, like with
EF, it's different than it would be if you're working at like
Watsi or something, right? Or like a, a big publisher,
because we do most of our deals and like our partnerships with
creators. It's, it's a, it's a partnership
like we don't own these IPS. We partner with creators and
it's a split. So I can't just come in and this
is how it's going to look like a normal art direct would, right?
I have to like work with people, which kind of makes it a little
more difficult sometimes, but I think through the through that
collaboration, you've stronger work.
There aren't too many people that push back against my
suggestions. And if they do, they have good
reason to. And then we have that back and
forth, right? So different.
And it's kind of project to project.
A lot of projects come with artists attached.
You know, you think of like Land of Beam, right?
That's a writer and an artist and they're paired together and
there is artwork outside of their team, but for the most
part, like they've got a lot of their stuff locked down.
So I might help with like securing like we have a Bowens
buddy who does like packaging and stuff like that, like making
sure the slip case looks nice, like, you know, setting, setting
them up with things like that. Or I need layout and finding a
good layout artist to put the book together and some people
just might need everything. And then that's when, you know,
usually come up with some suggestions and we try to figure
out who works price wise with the budget.
Yeah. So it's it's different for sure.
Like you got to, you got to work with your partners.
Is so are there any projects kind of over the last year that
you have put out that you got to have a little bit more of a hand
in or or is it mostly, like you said, kind of more coordinating
the art as opposed to really getting your hands into it?
There's been a few that there's been a few that have been like a
little more with me being hands more hands on, but the ones that
I like the most ones where like ballads of warhead.
I'm I'm a huge like John Demers fan and we put that out and
that's just of his books, like his scenes for stat after old
school essentials. It's a beautiful book.
That's one where like we just I worked with John and we up
there. I wish more people get up
because I do think it's like a big I think it's a gorgeous
book. It doesn't really spoon Fiji.
It's it's a bit raw when you read it, but no more so than
like an old gazetteer from like, you know, a forgotten realm
gazetteer from the day, you know, like it's each is a
previous release that he put out on a but the artwork is just
gorgeous. Book is gorgeous and like John's
an amazing artist working with right now, Zach Hoppin, Zach
Hazard. He's doing a release with us
this year called Frog World that he's going to post on on social
media, which is looking really awesome.
Like he's putting out a lot of artwork in this book and he's
doing the layout. It's going to look like it's
it's that out for more, but it's like new player, like class or
races or whatever where your different kinds of like the and
it's a sandbox can and it's kind of like little crawls in it.
So you got like frog heaven, frog hell and then like frog
world, and that one's pretty cool.
I don't know, having a bit of a brain fart trying to think of
put out Andrew Tiger was conceptualized who's none got
Joey Royale to do the and then we got Tia Roche dreams on
Instagram to do the artwork and Sam McKenzie who want me big and
we've got Sam on another project right now that I got him on.
That's going to be pretty tight. So that one was, you know, like
there was nothing assigned to it just on that one.
And what else do we do? Like I think I like, I basically
like I kind of got the job. We were looking for Monty Python
artists back when that was in development and the time I was
just doing customer service, I guess a part just to help out
and they were helping me just went to work and they were just
looking for artists put up a list.
And so like Kyle Patterson, amazing, phenomenal and way too
like I was expecting and be like older than me, but he's like or
something, he's just so good. And then Elliot Lang, who is a
another phenomenal illustrator who does like folio state work
and got them and then also got the the holy blanket on his
name. The character, the characters on
the GM like those paintings that are like oil rubbed painting, I
believe their oil rub where it's like you get a really defined
drawing and you put like oil paint like Sienna and then you
lift the highlights out and then you color all over it.
I think that's what those are, but there might be more paint
involved. Zach.
Zach was his phenomenal character artist.
He does like golf portraiture and stuff for like golf
magazines, like weird big headed, like editorial stations,
but it is he was the like old school professional, which was a
bit refreshing. He was very much like no, like
here's the deadline, not the deadline.
Hey there, revision urging you for these revisions, like kind
of like very upfront and very like here's what it is and back
and forth, which sometimes I can may respect and appreciate.
I don't know, had a lot of books come out like we did landavine
Gavin on some Dolman Woods stuff.
That's something we're having and it is had already like had a
little that guy you'd work with previously, but that you know, I
pulled in like Ellie Kingston, who just is a tattooer Richmond
and she recently got work at the gathering on their like little
critter set. I don't it's like Bramble wood
or something like I don't know. I haven't played magic.
Years and years. Years.
I'm playing magic since I was a kid.
I got already I I started Warhammer now I got my, my, my
hobby budgeted shot. I can't do magic too, Yeah.
Riff she we got her in on Dolman Wood we got.
Outback we got again Owens help with some of the packaging
stuff. Well, did it really work like
that was fun. You're able to do the minis box
like I pitched the thing with the window with the flip up box
lid with the pork inside the window.
And then like the designing it in a way, Kyle broke everything
up and kept everything layered. We could separate the
characters. You'd have like the fire
extinguished behind the minis, but when the IT is closed, you
see the illustration evolved from there and I think that was
really successful. So that was another one that was
a lot of fun to work with. Recently trying to think now
Castle automatic with Josh has been really good.
The follow up to The Worm, it's like a mega dungeon for that
that we're doing a pre-order for that's been taken up.
A lot of a lot of band just trying to stay on top of that
one because we've got a few artists and making sure that it
follows the trade dress of His Majesty the Worm.
But also like there's upon some things like especially with
land. It's kind of what I'm tackling
right now. Yeah, I don't know.
A lot of a lot of little things going on.
The Meow Wolf role-playing game is like, really all-encompassing
that we're working on neighbors. I've seen some of the previews
for that and that's, I mean, I've seen meow Wolf across the
country, different places I've been like Colorado and stuff.
You see like big things for it. So when EF announced the the
thing and I saw some illustrations, I was like, well,
this is going to be this is going to be crazy.
So. Yeah, yeah, that one was that.
This one's going to cool. It's definitely different, like
kind of like the Python was different.
I'm personally not IP like games unless it's Lord of the then
I'll just get it because I'm a big Motörhead.
But this one's weird enough and they've got they've been enough
like odd shit floating around out there between all their
exhibits. There's a lot to pull from Tiger
wood riding it and he's pretty deep into their like he was a
big fan of brand. I'd never been to one went out
to the Santa Fe 1 and it was like their team's been fun to
work with, but I got tried more to do the wrap around cover for
that one that's been revealed. Mention that he work on.
He did a phenomenal for comic Silver Surfer Black.
That is really, really sick and he did a Doctor Strange book
recently as well. That's pretty cool.
And he has a little bit of like a martial arts like flesh balm
style called Luther Strode. That's like kind of this
Ultraviolet like martial arts comic that I believe was out on
it maybe about 10 years ago is when it started.
There's 4 volumes and it's really like action-packed, like
if you like Baki or like Fist of the North Star or Saint Muscle,
like any of that old, like any of that plastic flesh bomb, like
a boy beating each other. Anime manga stuff like Luther
Strode is really good. Thick Yeah.
Besides, I know we just talked about meow, Wolf, but you said
you're kind of getting back into doing a little bit more
freelance stuff on your own. Is there anything that's been
taken up your time like towards the end of 2025 and into 2026?
So like I mentioned earlier, I don't know if you're maybe I
did. Yeah, we were recording because
we were talking quite a bit before recording that kind of
hit that like this burnout wall. So I 2025 was very like minimal
for me doing like game work or personal work, just kind of
burnt out. And then right at the end I was
talking to my buddy Gage Bridgeman over there at high
scum and the Big Magic the gathering player.
And we were talking about like the art of magic and how we it's
cool now that we're starting to see like Justine Jones being
like a huge push. Allie Livingston, like Wizard of
barge has car like on the DND set.
They have Russ Nicholson art on like some of the and Tony Dieter
Lizzy and I'm like it's cool to see them doing this stuff.
And I think, I think Gage was like, well, kind of because of
the proxy scene, like people making the their own cards and
getting them made-up boxing stuff and so.
I. Started looking around and
seeing some of these really awesome cards.
Sean Demir I mentioned before did a few.
Did like a a little pack which sitting here someplace with
another artist from Canada. I'm sorry, I think I don't
remember her name, but but she was selling them on stores.
So I got a couple sets of those to kind of give out as gifts,
one for myself, but they were awesome.
I think Big Boy Game Time's been doing some online and I just
seem like a bunch of people making these awesome like token
proxies. And so it's kind of like man, I
used to magic. I think I've a collection 4
times. First time probably when 4th
edition came out or like ice, like right around there.
I played through like Homeland or Visions or Alliances,
something in that thing. And then I came back into it
like Miernan Kamagawa block got out like after Ravnica sold
everything again. And then I got back in again
during the World Wakes, sold everything and and I like I'm
not allowed to buy them anymore. I just don't do it.
But I still like have this pleasure for the game.
So all these proxies kind of fired off some of that
nostalgia. And I whenever I get burnt out,
I find that the sometimes it's hard to find.
It's hard to find the cure for it.
But for me, the cure is to change styles and do completely
different and for a while I like filling around with more
traditional stuff is OK, but it was more like sketchbookie
things nothing. And then a few times before I'd
kind of use this, this airbrush, this digital airbrush.
And so I started I did a demon token with this airbrush style.
It looked pretty cool. Sounds like all right.
And then I, I did, I limited myself to three settings.
So if a sitting gets interrupted, then that's fine.
But that's that sitting, right? So like 3 sittings to finish a
card. A sitting could be 3 hours, a
sitting could be 20 minutes, whenever.
It's kind of set that rule because I'm also a bit of a
perfectionist and I don't like to like I'll overwork something,
it'll take forever. Hence swaggers took forever
because it's like drawing every roof shingle and like that.
But I knocked out a demon then I did what was the second one?
Oh buzzy spawn and then goblin and then a vampire and I knocked
him out really quick and they look cool.
And now I'm I'm going to do a old school essentials has the
OSC demon month coming out and. For the Demonic Remor, which is
the next official OSC release, it's been announced, so I'm not
spoiling anything, but it's the OS CS Fien Folio.
So there's going to be a demon fun backer kit like Sam and
Mellie's got a book that looks awesome.
Maximin's doing one with Jonica that's going to be like a choose
your own adventure style thing that looks absolutely mad.
Take us out. Yeah, I think I saw Johann was
doing something, but he might have bounced like due to other
obligations. But Don Stroud's doing 1.
Trying to think of who else I know is in the loop, but there's
yeah, it's going to be cool. Like if you think like if you're
into demons and Dungeons Dragons and Old School Central, it's
going to be a cool 1. So I'm doing one of those
keeping it this like air Rushy, like painterly style, like it's
much more rendered, less like line pen and ink traditional and
stuff that I'd normally do. And that was really like
liberating. And now I'll return on the
demonic Remor to my like pen and ink style.
So I've got some pieces in that as well that Gavin wanted me to
do. So that's going to be my 2026,
like at least the beginning of it.
We'll be getting this OSC demonic or more or OSC month
scene and then to also fulfill my application for the pieces
that were assigned to me for demonic more.
I think I think to the art for that is starting to come in.
I'm trying to like Tyler Pennington.
The Creek from six 3D on Instagram has got a piece in
there. Got there like so many good
artists blanking on them. We'll put a link out maybe for
the like sign up like page, because I think that's up
already. I don't know.
I got a few. I'm going to keep doing these
magic tokens, probably do like maybe two or three more.
Maybe things that are a little more playable because right now,
like Elder Ozzie smile is kind of playable, but I don't think
anyone's really playing demons and no one's really playing like
like vampires I think are still relevant.
I don't know how relevant Goblins will always relevant,
but I know that they're like treasure and food tokens and
other things that people are using a lot of.
A beast token makes sense, like beasts are always relevant, So
what? So for for the uninitiated, I
guess a couple of questions. What?
Edition What edition of magic are they on now?
Like is this a thing like a million?
Like the is every release edition or?
I know that they don't do corsets anymore, but they call
it something different and I don't know like because back
when I bounced off of it, they doing like, I want to say like a
setting a year. So it was a corset and three,
three sets in a block, right is what they would call it.
So it'd be like Zenda car block or like Ravnica block and a
corset. Now I don't know what they're
doing because they're doing like universes beyond stuff which
seems to like have kind of take hobby, which sucks.
Not a big fan. Even the Lord of the Rings stuff
like I didn't buy it and it's pretty rare for me.
For when I see magic anymore, that's what it kind of feels
like. It feels like when are we going
to get like the Bob's Burger versus Sailor Moon set or
something? Like it's kind of getting crazy,
yeah. It is Spongebob's.
I mean, there's like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles now, Spider
Man stuff and I don't like. When did the ranch become Funko
pop? Like I don't understand someone
someone in chat just said 4 universes beyond sets and three
regular sets this year. So seven sets.
Seven sets, are you supposed to keep up with that?
And then I also want to say like the Spider man set, they
couldn't get a license for like Arena, the online stuff.
So they would like the veteran arena aren't spider man cards.
So they're names, but same abilities and the same amount of
cost. So like, if you're, if you're a
core player and you're practicing online, you're not
practicing with the same cards with a big handicap, I would
think, right. Like, because you're, you're
practicing with stuff that's like you're theory built, you're
crazy theory building decks and trying to find a new meta or,
you know, your lightning bolt or your spider ZAP or whatever the
magic card is actually Peter Parker's web shooter on the
printed card that you would have to use in a tournament.
You're just mentally not as sharp because you remember 2
cards for everyone I think. So like, that sucks.
I just want like, cool medieval guys hitting each other and
like, yeah, and what the heck. 'S a token.
So tokens have been around for a while, right?
So that's like a like if you've got a card that like creates
zombies, you've got is token. So it's like it's just a card.
It's like a little like summoned.
I mean, your creatures are already summoned dudes, like
summoned dudes that you're summoned summons.
Yeah. So you can so like vampire
creates like A11 token or whatever.
Is that why like for because I see a lot of token art.
Is that why kind of people like art people kind of lean into the
token cards because it's not you don't need all of like the stats
and stuff. It's more like the art can just
be representative. Is that is that why that's kind
of done that way? I.
Think it's. I think it's that and it's also
Wattsy. I don't like, there's probably
some copyright issue there as well.
Like you can make skull clamp, but they own skull clamp.
Like that's like a trademark thing, but Vampire is not.
So like there might be some legality thing there.
Like people will make and sell like a proximal clamp all day
long with like custom art and stuff.
Legal. Probably not, but like no, I
assume not, But yeah, who who care?
But the tokens, the pins I think are also like you said, you can
focus more on the art and not about a big block of text on
some things like clamp is a bad example because I that text box
is rather small. But there are some cards are
like commander staples that a lot of text and then, you know,
maybe it's not as fun to make just because you can't.
They flex the art as hard. Yeah, I, you know, I was in the
Magic when I was younger because like, it's cool as shit and I
obviously have a collector bug. So like getting the cards and
stuff is whatever. But when, when it started to be
like a money game, I definitely bounced out of it.
And I think now, you know, I have to listen to hives come a
lot. And I know they've they talk a
lot about, you know, commander and, and magic and stuff in
general. And I just think like, it's
definitely something I've thought about and bounced off
even on my own brain being like, like you were saying, like, oh,
you got to play online to figure out this new meta.
I'm like, I don't want to play a game that like has a meta
because I don't like playing games to win, if that makes
sense. Like I I I've got to started
shifting into skirmish for a million reasons.
I'm not going to get into away from RPGs, but I like narrative
skirmish. Like I don't care if I win or
lose a game. If like we told a cool story.
And you know, and again, that's one reason I started really
getting into hype scum is that's like their whole mindset, like
the DIY or die and just like play to have fun kind of thing.
So I think magic. Like, so Magic is a game that
discourages makers, which I think it's cool that we're
seeing people making anyway. And it's sort of the same thing
with Hammer stuff like the game discourages, right?
Like they want you to buy GW and buy their codexes every four
years or three years or however often you are.
They redo the army and tweak it a little bit and like fuck up
the balance or, you know, do a new scale miniature, you know,
like they'll face out. So urge makers.
But I think that when you you kind of get the coolest stuff
from like games and people that just don't want you to do it and
then you just do it anyway. Like you get cool shit that way.
So yeah, magic. Could you see that map?
You definitely see that with like the kid bash community and
people do some molds and people like thing and bringing in bash
your old toys and breaking them down and use pieces and making
cool with likes the heart of an old game, but better mind rules.
You know, it's like it's like kind of life changes that you're
seeing and OSR stuff right like that before.
It's also people just doing it themselves.
So you got lower quality like trashier publications.
And he somebody like some so miniatures Tanner who like it's
a something that was printed on the cheapest piece of paint,
folded by him, stapled it and like it's awesome, right?
It's really raw, not edited. It's not clean, it's dirty and
inspiration. Like he kind of, I don't know, I
get inspired stuff. Yeah, it doesn't need to be
perfect. Be loose.
And it's actually in some ways, and everything's like a
pendulum. Yeah, but I mean, that's the
shit that I love. Like my favorite things back
here are are that stuff. It's not the, you know, one of
my and I again, I won't touch on the 2D, but one of my issues
with the the small market tabletop, you know, teach RPG
scene right now is that everything is so fucking
polished, like to the nines so they can put up their $10,000
Kickstarter for the very first game and it drives me nuts.
And then you can go to like, you know, the friendship friend shop
and grab like a Rizzo printed, barely folded stapled like big
boy game time thing. And I would take that 100 times
Yeah, over over something that's like super, super process.
Like, you know, that's when we started.
That's kind of stuff that we really, really loved and really
got into. And it's the stuff that we're
moving back into. And you see that a lot more in
the skirmish scene, I think. And I then you do when they
teach RBG scene right now. And I think part it is just the
IT feels like much more of a hands on DIY thing.
Like you have to you kick patch the minis, you paint the minis.
So why not like make the Zine and fold the Zine and, and print
the Zine and and yeah, I'm way more inspired by that right now
than than, you know, most things in the teach RPG space.
I truly feel though that everything is cylindrical or
like I meant right. Like anything like time you go
too far it like swings back right?
Like so we the RPG space like at least as far as my taste go,
right? Like we went real hard into
accessibility, making sure that everything is like super
polished filled and like and everything is like organized
well for table use, like usable kind of thing.
And now like, I'm like, this is looking too much.
So now I'm like, I don't give a shit about any of that.
And like I'm personally I'm swinging the other way now where
I'm like, I'm going to go into like maybe I do want to play a
really annular like complicated game, like, oh man, like
encumbrance and like durability and like, you know, and then it
will just the other way again. Like same thing with with the
Polish, right? Like right now we're in the
role-playing game sector, right? Like it gets homogenized and
that everything is like a mixing scene and everything looks and
feels. And then now we're starting back
over here. We're like the war gamer are
doing what the OSR people did 15 years ago and it's feels fresh.
And eventually you're going to I, I guarantee you that start to
homogenize and then something's got to give.
And then it will go to being raw again.
Like it's the way the burn churn of fate, like a collective
consciousness of creativity, right?
Like something is popular and a bunch of people get in on it and
it kind of a bunch of innovation happens rapidly and then it all
kind of lands on on a thing. It gels up and then you got to
break it apart again. It's just like what?
It's what our job as artists and people who like to have fun do.
You build it up and get it, and then you just break it down for
pieces. You strip and you build
something now. Yeah, well, I I would really
like that pendulum and teach RBGS to start swinging back the
other way before, you know, 15 years goes by.
Yeah, but. It will happen.
It's I think it's it's probably happening like now, especially
now you're starting to pull out. You're you're getting the punk
and the hardcore kids back into it.
So like you're seeing it again through like dungeon since scene
scene, though, and like people making their own music and
putting venture stuff into their or, you know, like it's the
narrative thing went over to the the war gaming right, like that
everyone bored Heim again and they're like, dude, the action
is just as cool, if not cooler than the game saying like what
happens to your dudes? And then, like making the story
of, Oh, shit, guy finally came out of the sewer and he came out
with weird stone. And now we're all like, we're
rich and like, like good weapons.
You know, we can get close and like, or we can drop the clubs
and get your stuff and get actual armor that works well.
Or like, you know, mutations that are whatever.
Like if you're cold of the disaster, yeah, it's, well, you
know, potentially make that game fun.
Yeah. Well, what's interesting too is
like you said, it's not, you know, it's not necessarily going
to be in the Teach RBG space where that move happens.
But the tabletop space in general is always going to
influence the tabletop space. Because you know, one, if you
really look back, like one of the reasons or one of the things
that kind of perpetuated this extra Polish in the Teach RPG
space was a lot of the board game Kickstarters that were
getting super polished and, and pulling a lot of money on
Kickstarters. And that fed into the Teach RPG
space. Like you said.
Now the war game space is getting a lot of that Teach RPG
stuff and a lot of people that make really cool indie war game
stuff also probably on their page have some cool like like
big boy game time did Cauldron, but he also has like blood work,
you know, which is a teach RPG. So it's not like they are only
doing one thing. And a lot of the best indie
teach RPG stuff, you know, because you mentioned Tanner
Simpson, one of the most just crazy indie people alive, like
wonder reward 10,000 is is one of the best skirmish games, but
also teach RPGs that's out right now and it's definitely not
super accessible. I'll tell you that.
You got to really parse that, but it's so much fun.
But it's but that's what makes it fun is picking through it and
being like, I know 3 rules and I will play the game with like the
through these two and then you'll read it again.
It's almost like, you know, being it's like it kind of
reminds me of being hit again and having my second edition
players handbook and paying AD and D edition for like a year.
And then I flipped to a page and I'm like, shit, there's a rule
for this, right, That like I wasn't using, but I'm still
having fun and now I can pull it in there.
No, I I wouldn't wanted is wanted is a beautiful, grand
experiment. Like it's not a it's it's a
spirit, It's a an elemental force.
It's not like it's not like your standard game and it's I
wouldn't say that it's as it's as good as the people you play
it with. Like more so any other game, you
know, like we had who I think he built like the web and like the
forum and stuff for it. We had him run some of it at
con. We'd had a great game that over
a narrative from the previous game, this guy had like caught
the bounty last game and it was like flush with cash.
And then he ended up getting like lit up in this art gallery
thing that they had made. And all these blood tokens went
everywhere and slipping and sliding downstairs.
And like, Tyler and Terry were like trying to steal a car or
something. Like there's so much going on,
but that's not your typical skirmish game.
And the rule like so crazy that the conversion tables like this
is where it like where I'm talking like it's granular and
it's stupid, but it's fun, right?
Whereas if it came out 10 years ago, I don't know if people
would like it as much because focusing on accessibility and
this thing is not accessible and it has no intention of being
accessible. And it is like this big
beautiful BLOB of a thing that that's what makes it unique and
interesting and enticing. And it does.
And that's kind of Tanner's thing though, because if you
read What's 1? That's like the deep sea fishing
one. It's really funny because I have
to end their discord and I got the Zine off of the French shop
and I I hopped in and was like, hey, I really want to read this
at work. Is there APDF?
And they're like, no, but someone made someone's like give
me like 20 minutes and they sent me it, but they'd actually
skated upside down and I was like, that's fucking perfect.
That's the most this thing. But even Tanner like messaged
me. Yeah.
Like Tanner messaged me on on Instagram and was like, hey, you
know, thanks for, you know, because I posted a picture of
it. It's like, thanks, it kind of
works. I'm not sure if it really does
just let me know. And I'm like, that's perfect.
That's the most perfect thing ever is like, give me this, you
know, $5 staple together thing that like maybe works, but it's
like super deep and it's just about fishing.
And that's really, really cool. And you can see that move into
into a wanted reward because it's definitely like you said,
it's just use the parts of it that you feel like using at the
time and you'll have a fun time. But like the part with God, what
is it where you have to like program like your little robot
guy with like strings of code? But if?
You don't. Yeah, is so granular is so
crazy. And it's so interesting because
I remember hearing on, I think it was like Steve talking on
hive scum where he had like one of those little guys, but he
forgot to like put a code to make it move or something, or to
like shoot a bad guy. So it just like stood there and
like that's that's the most like one reward thing I've ever heard
is like, I forgot to put a code in that said it could shoot or
move. So it didn't shoot or move.
And that's hysterical. Yeah, I think it was.
It couldn't move. So like you just like sat there
with like facing forward. And so it was yeah.
But yeah, I mean that's the. And at some point someone will
take what they like from 10,000 credits and they will pull it
into a version of that game with like 5 rule and it will cover
everything and everyone's going to love it and play it.
And then, you know, that's the thing.
Like it's going to start here and it will eventually people
will be inspired by it and pick it apart, put it back to there
again, make it this streamline slick like thing and then you'll
end up getting sick of that style of game.
Then you'll go back to like this unhinged anti user experience of
like these same thing like the old TSR games and like the old
like like we're working on that on fresh.
So like we were looking at some of the old like like wind
calculations and like angles and like like just who cares, right?
Someone cared at someone point enough to make the game and it
is obviously playable. But, you know, we'll distill
that and then something will come along and that will be
another complicated version of of whatever was made, I guess.
Well, that's that's one thing that in 2025, because I know,
but you, yeah, well, you said a little bit too 2025 fucking
sucked. And with THRPGS, that's one
thing that's crazy to me. Not only if people, I'm not even
going to get into people that like only play 5E or only play
like one game or whatever. People that only play teach RPGs
are also missing out on so much of the tabletop space.
And like, that's one reason we started kind of shifting and
wanted to cover a little bit more because if you're not also
doing like board games and also doing war games and stuff,
there's so much interconnectedness, but also
like freshness and like innovation and cool stuff going
on in the different spaces that, you know, like I said, I'm, I'm
a little burned out on teach RPGs, but being able to shift
into kind of the indie skirmish space and seeing stuff like
wanted a reward. And you know, one of the
craziest things about that is I've never met two people that
call it the same thing. I call it work cock, but some
people call it run reward. Some people call it 10,000
credits. Like it's been great.
It'll revitalize like my love for tabletop, being able to move
into that and meet a lot of new people that are doing a lot of
really cool things. And, you know, and I, I, you
know, anyone listening, I highly advise like if you just play
TRPGS, like play board, I'm super excited for the next
escape that our castle version that's coming out At the same
time. I'm excited for, you know, the
new, the new like war game stuff coming out.
So there's a lot more out there. And it's been really cool to
kind of move into those spaces. And I mean, so we, so we, we saw
each other at packs, which was really, really cool.
We actually got to hang out in person and we played a couple
games. Do you are you, do you want to
talk about any of the game that we played?
Yeah. Sure which what do you want?
No, we don't need to talk about mine.
We want to talk about yours because now we'll get there.
But but it was so much fun. So, so you're, you're developing
a game and I'd love, I'd love to, to hear you talk about it
because it was super fun to play.
So the thrash is a like aerial combat like heck game, right?
So it's like one-on-one. We did play 3 on one 3V3 version
of it and it got pretty, it got pretty bonkers and it went
really fast. But that it might just not be
built for that. There might be some kind of real
alternate anyway, it's like 2 squads of planes and you're on a
hex map. So it's very reminiscent of
those like shit high school chip games from I mean like Tsra ton
of them back in the day, Avalon hell did a ton of them.
So it's it's play that, but the rules are pretty straightforward
and simple. And I don't know, I think the
game's tight and now we just got up with some.
I think we got to come up with some like some rule variant like
or objective variance, I guess I should say, because the rules
change, but the just more to do like go at each other on the
same word, right. So like creating terrain, that's
which is, you know, like if you want to play it as some like
future, it's already kind of sticks.
There are some items in there that like are not real, but for
the most part it's like, you know, you're 20 XX kind of
future. So train is like and mountains
or like skyscrapers that go all that you just don't have enough
oxygen to keep your plane afoot. So, you know, just suspend your
disbelief. Someone else, maybe they're just
floating fields of like flying like like almost like in the
ocean for like submarines, but in the sky because you've got
these like kick ass planes. So they're just fields of
whatever you can't pass through. So there's we're trying to make
it module. You can like take the train and
create your own sort of playing field and scenarios with it or
like AD 6 contested role system with simple plus and minus
pluses depending on things like altitude positioning.
Like I mean, I think the most you can probably get plus 3 or 4
on your D6 and use somebody else and you know, see who went most
things have one hit points. It's like a one and done like
and it's over between two planes.
There's like 7 movement is what makes it interesting.
It's I think there are naval combat games that do, but you
know your propulsion based, there's no slowing down.
There's no like doing your full move.
You always have to do your full move and you always in a certain
like order. So like that that's when the
sort of chin scratchiness come to it where you're trying to
like make position to shoot somebody.
But you have you have to use these movements and you have to
use these these rules of like moving on board, which again,
like there might be, I don't know.
How many rules do you think? Like maybe 3 like rules they
remember for your movement to keep it straight?
I mean how many can move on and then you move and then you click
and you move on a hex? Yeah, that's pretty it.
Yeah. I mean, it was, it's not.
I loved it because it was not complicated at all to pick up.
But it becomes deep when you understand it.
Like I sterling beat my ass because I did not realize how
important altitude was. And she definitely did.
So she immediately went like up 3 and I was just like, no, I'm
going to move forward. And then later when she's like
die bombing me and hitting me from different altitudes and
getting like movement bursts because she's like coming down
and stuff. It was so cool.
And then I kept getting trapped because of the the click thing
where it's like you have to use your full movement and if a
guy's like right next to you, it's like, well, how do you
click once and then move around so you can shoot him again?
So it's like you're in in like the, the theater of the mind
aspect of it. I'm seeing the plane just like
being too close or too tight or not being able to get into an
area where you can like get that reticle to tag onto somebody.
And it was, it was a lot of fun, like you said, with, with a lot
of it, just like if someone, if someone gets you in their
sights, you're done. So you have to be really careful
about that unless you're the leader, but also the variety
with the weapons that you get to pick up and use and and the one
one shot kind of Ness of like you have the special missile
that can do this cool thing. One time was it's cool.
I I love games like that specifically that have really
simple or really it's not simple, but like straightforward
kind of base mechanics, but have like an intense amount of depth
when you really understand how to piece it all together.
Yeah, the equipment like the equipment helps to everything
like every plane for you don't if nobody knows, right, unless
you played it. We had a convention recently,
but all you have like a limited range machine gun, sort of a
machine gun, but you've got cards are like I've kind of a
starter game, like an intro game load that everybody gets where
it's like everyone gets these missiles that you can assign to
whatever planes and you randomly get like these bits of and the
equipment, everything is 1 use. The equipment's one use.
The missiles are one. The machine guns, they're just
always there. Cards themselves are all one
use. So like if you got a missile,
you use it and you use it. So there's like an AOE missile,
there's a missile that can earn and maneuver around the board a
little bit. But the equipment is like, I
think really cool. Like there's one that's like a
blink drive as you pass through things at the same altitude or
some that lets you like rotate as many times as like, so it's
almost like a hairier thing. So let's use these thrust,
thrust factor nozzle like move a little bit further and if with
your cards facedown, you can really surprise people play
test. I did was like it was like you
said, I didn't have a good angle because we were too close.
But what I could do is I could turn towards a muse link drive
to go through them and then it has to turn back around.
And then I had the rear gun thing and I was able to get that
big bonus on the because I was right behind them.
Did be like great turn, turn your cards doing it.
But you do get these like the epic turns if you've got like a
good stack of equipment on a certain plane and the situation
comes up. So that's yeah.
Well, that's how you know. It's also like such a tight like
well crafted game because being able to say like you get one
extra turn or one extra move and how game changing that can be
just kind of shows like how tight like the base part is,
which is fucking perfect because that is such a huge deal.
Like having the altitude to be able to do like a like a 180
kind of like bank and turn the other directions is so huge.
And again, like, next time I play it, you know, I'll, I'll
know these things, but just having those little bit of extra
movement it, it felt so cool. It felt in a lot of games,
movement's important, like you get into things, but having
movement be like so critical to the things that you're able to
do. I don't know it, it, it felt
really, really cool. I, I loved it.
I definitely can't wait to, to see what you're going to do with
it. What What's what's the plan?
So me and my buddy Justin Mccool have been working on it for, I
don't know, the past year and a half, two years at this point.
That will go like real hard for a little while and then like 3-4
months off or whatever and then return to it.
Me taking Axe and to Arcane Con was kind of the first big public
thing is really encouraging that nobody like people had a but
none of the opinions were like this is broken or didn't work or
nobody destroyed him. Like no one figured out like
like he really went through it with a tooth comb to make sure
that it was a tight system. And thank goodness that it
turned out that way because so far some of the biggest like
people out there haven't really like fucked it up and figured
out something that made me like really sad that now the game is
bad. So we've got we have to see
about getting it made. So I don't know, I don't know
how that's going to work at the moment because like tariffs have
kind of like really hurt us. So it'd have to be made in the
US. We were looking at like acrylic
components at one point and now we're looking at paper because
you can just you can actually get paper products made
domestically. So like more cardboard and stuff
than like nice acrylic. Like pull to get the altitude
tokens be like clear blue like so that you can stack and
they're actually like fitted together so that they they
almost like a checker, right? Like when you to check with the
little toothy thing, So when you can like locked in a bit, it
makes it easy moving around. So I don't know, we need
approach a little bit. The main thing though, like I
said before, is with like alternate giving the game just
for me. So giving it like scenarios like
there's a item that we haven't used that was in the set, but I
just took it out was like there's a like a drone like a
sonar drone that you can send out and it has an AOE blast and
reveals equipment cards. So you're supposed to play with
the cards face down. We were from face up because
they were all introductory games.
Essentially we're learning to play the way the game is
supposed to be played is your cards that are playing or face
down. So you can see that a plane has
stuff, but you don't know what it has.
So this item lets you reveal equipment.
So there will be like a like each team has a football and
you're trying to get it like the other side by football.
I mean like, you know, nuke button like the suitcase, like
you're trying to get it over to like the other teams like base
or something and like blow up, but you don't know which plane
has it. So it's like, but each person
has one of these like revealing things so you can maybe get a
better gauge of like where the person's at and like, do you
play aggressive and just try to get over there?
Or do you want to like keep people back to kind of protect
your area or like escort missions or I was also playing
around with, we were playing with a keeping like player like
progression. So like marking off your kills.
And so once you get X amount, you kind of get these unlock
these units and that's how you like make a pilot better.
Those are also very limited. So like, you know, it still
doesn't like let the game snowball, but it will give you
like a bit of flavor and a little bit of reason to be like
this is dude, like they're, this is my pilot, right?
Like this guy, he got 3 downs last game and you can pack of it
and then maybe there's a there's a extra jet or something that
controlled by like an Oracle that you roll on and it targets
like the best pilot. Like it's like a bounty hunt or
something. So there's other things that
we're playing with idea wise like some weather things like
our initial test we have all these weather and like
condition. Then we ended up stripping them
early side pull all out. So I was like, just makes it
more complicated, slows it down. And is it actually fun?
Not really. There's one that's like a
turbulence one that would move all planes like at the end of
four round one hex in a random direction.
And that one was kind of fun because it was like people were
colliding and like into walls and like terrain and blown and
it made it really chaotic. But, you know, like, that might
be a weird optional. So yeah, right now I think I'm
going to keep like, Justin's art is all that ASCII art on it.
It looks. I kind of like it.
So I think we might just it that way.
He's also a bit of a mad scientist.
And I was like, I could see this game being cool and then like
somebody like ripping it off, making a video game out of it.
So he's making like a digital version that is almost playable
already. So like I'd still want to keep
it a board game though, but there might be a might be a
digital version of it already. Like it's already cooking.
So I love those. I love the I guess bottom, the
top scrollers or like side scroller kind of shoot them up
like rogue like kind of things like biohazard battle on Sega
had that where you're like you're a ship, but you're like
shooting through all of the stuff, but the ones where.
You're like in 1945 or like in aerial fighters?
Yeah, especially the ones that like would like I said, I guess
bottom, the top where you're going this way and like the
terrain is coming this way like that.
The game, when we're playing it kind of gave me those vibes a
little bit too, where it's just like, well, now you got like a
battleship coming this way and you got to like, you know, do a
round of things coming at. You it's still the game, it's
still the, it's still the hex board of hexes and the same
plane, same terrain layout. And like he's got, we've got the
movement down, I think we've got hit detection down and we've got
like the missile showing like the range of the hexes you can
hit with certain missiles. But you still have to do like
step by step, which was something I was pretty added on
where it's like, I don't just want to see the range of
missile, I want to see how the missile moves so people learn to
play. Like it's almost like a tutorial
tool in a way for the game. So yeah, I don't know.
It's been fun working on it. It was really fun, Blake.
I like playing the game, but I really like watching people play
the game. That's kind of been a surprise
for me watching other people take it and asking me questions
about it and like us figuring it out or watching them figure it
out. And when something clicks and
they're like, oh, like storing this altitude when you can is
probably is really good because then you can burn it.
Oh shit, now I burnt it. Now I'm like a little more
targetable to somebody else Has been it's been a lot of fun.
It's been good. Yeah, that's why the play
testing is, I don't know, I love play testing and I love playing
with new people because sometimes people will show you
something like like when I was playing mine on Tabletop
Simulator, even small things like I had this dice that I was
I was positive it was AD 12. And I have played the game
probably 20 times with people telling people that's a because
it's shaped like a bullet telling people it's AD 12 and
like 25th game, man. I think I played with like Dylan
from from Hill Giant Games and he was like, bro, that's
definitely AD 10. And I was like, how did 20
people not see this before? And that's.
Just a like 12, right? Yeah.
And it was just like I guess where I was rolling 10s.
But but the other stuff that people have pointed out or, or
the questions that they've asked, like that's one reason I
wanted to drop mine is like a ashcan first, because it's had
two update cents for people asking questions.
And it's just it's really, really cool.
Like I totally get what you're saying about watching other
people play it or playing with other people and getting the
questions, because the first thing I thought was like, yeah,
fucking scenarios. That's where this is going to
go. But you know, one thing I like
about how tight thrash is, is as even if you just play it or put
it out as that, you know, two groups versus two groups like
the battle thing. There's unlimited stuff to do
for like future releases or or future stuff for without having
to put too much out now because as it was super fun just playing
the the core ice works of it. Cool.
Yeah, thanks. Let me ask you about your let me
ask you about your game here. Like what?
What made you want to do like kind of a western saloon shoot
off thing and what made you want to use the violence system?
I don't it was kind of a a fever dream kind of I was actually
talking to. So yeah.
So my game death cutting stone, it's a it's a hack on violence.
We did the an episode where we went over both of the violence
jam like kind of Prince. I got put out and and violence
is just such a great system. I I'm a systems guy.
Like I'll always be kind of leaning more into like the OSR
system stuff than like story game stuff because I like the
gamey aspects of it. And violence is just such a cool
violence system. I was actually kind of
spitballing stuff with Chris P Wolf who was put out like, Oh my
God, why is my brain breaking? We just talked about it last
episode. I'll make sure the links are
below for him though. But off worlders and he started
kind of doing a ink 28 like over under thing and then but playing
with violence a little bit. And then I was kind of playing
with it a little bit and I honestly don't remember why it
went. It originally started.
It was called Tombstone 28 was the name of the game because I
was just like, this would be great.
It's just like a shootout game. So let's see how it would do it.
And then I found out there's a game that's called Tombstone
already that is a 28mm skirmish game.
So it had to get changed. And shout out Aaron King, who
gave me the Warlock quote for the game.
But that was kind of, I don't remember.
It just kind of was just like a thing that hit my brain and I
was kind of like bouncing mechanics back and forth with
Chris and and it just kind of spit out.
And then I just kind of iterated on it from there.
And it just kind of turned into kind of what it turned into.
But yeah, it's it's just hyper violent.
And that's kind of the point is to show how fucking stupid it is
to be dumb enough to to pull a gun and just everybody dies
around you. And at the end of the game,
you're probably going to die too.
And, and that's the thing I love about it.
And I also wanted to design it. The other thing about violence
is it's super fast. Like one of the great things
about using the violence system and teach RB GS is it makes it
great for like more kind of like politically kind of stuff or
like intrigue stuff because you know, as soon as you interact
with that system, everyone dies. So you try to stay away from it.
And my thought was what if you did the opposite of that?
What if like the point is for it to be ultraviolent?
And so that's that's what I wanted to do is kind of show
that. But I also wanted to have it be
a short, quick game. So like if you're playing more
time or if you're playing some bigger game and you're at like
under the dice or something and you got like 20-30 minutes until
your next game. You could just bust out death
cutting stone, run a quick game in like 1520 minutes and then
hop into your bigger game. So those are kind of the
reasons. Yeah, that's kind of why I did
that. Yeah, that's cool.
I'm glad you dropped 28 from the time.
It's kind of like become the Borg of Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, over there. Yeah.
I mean, it was. That was always just the working
title. I mean, there's literally,
there's tombstone references throughout the whole thing too,
though. There's like a reference in the
beginning about like skin in the smoke wagon and all that kind of
stuff. I dropped a lot of those kind of
like tombstone references out of it, but have you?
Shown it to Luke. I, I did, I sent it to him and I
got his address too, because I, I asked him if I could send him
a copy of the of like the physical ashcan because I was
just like, I think it's cool to own physical ashcans.
I'd love if you made it or if I could send you one that would be
really cool. So he sent me his address and
and yeah, I sent him a, a link to it and stuff and, and he said
it was cool and I asked him for if I could use the violence logo
in it and stuff like that. So and, and he said yeah, and
sent it to me. So and the violence logo already
is like a, a western guy too. So that kind of helped, I think
with the inspiration. So but yeah, it'll, it'll come
out soon. I mean, will will Rd. from
Forbidden Psalm did all the layout for it.
I got Ville, who's also done a lot of work for Forbidden Psalm
stuff, to do all the art for it. Yeah.
Phil. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's incredible. And he definitely turned it into
this, like, I don't know, kind of like gothic horror kind of
aspect to it, which which made it even more brutal.
Yeah. Sometimes Phil's stuff is like,
kind of that it's very wispy. It's got like a lot of like
tenderly, like darkness, like, yeah.
So I was kind of, I'd be interested to see how, yeah.
I mean, I can, I can send you some of the art pieces.
But one of the things I talked to Will about and talked to Will
about too, is like I said, the whole point of the game, kind of
like in its undertone, is that not to glorify violence, but to
show how fucking stupid it is because everyone dies.
So all of the art pieces in it are after violence.
There's nothing like leading up to violence or there's nothing
where like violence is actively happening.
It's all like someone dead on the ground or someone like
already shot and dying or like something that's like full of
bullet holes. So it's always post violence,
every piece of art in it. So that's awesome.
That was kind of one of the things, yeah.
So. Yeah.
Like hold that's in. It's like holding, you know,
like showing that it's all bad times.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's awesome. So I'm excited as soon as as
soon as I actually say, I mean, it's basically done.
I just have to actually like get my brain to sit down and make
like a like a posse sheet so people can track their
characters and then like just clean up some parts that I've
like updated and I'll release it.
So I could do it. I could release it tomorrow if I
would just get my brain to sit down and do it.
But we'll see. We'll see when it actually
happens. But yeah, I was, I was glad
that, you know, we all got to play at PAX cuz it was
interesting about it is I've never played with more than two
people, but we played with four people.
So we played with like half the game, but everyone died just as
fast. Like it literally I think it
started maybe the beginning of the third round and everyone was
dead. So I was like, it's cool to know
that like if 100 people play the game, the way the math works,
like you're still all going to die by like the third round, so.
Yeah, yeah. But that'd be yeah, that'd be
something to have like saloon where like everyone just has,
but you've got a bunch of people that don't mind sitting around
and waiting because there is a little bit of waiting, you know,
especially you've got a lot of players.
But like having people buy into it and like build up some kind
of and actually have like a like a little battle Royale of Royal
in a in a saloon. And maybe I start at side some
inside that could be cool. Like have a cool play report,
make a book out of that, make a scene play.
Maybe, yeah, if you had two people instead of two people
having war bands of five, if you just had 10 people, like with
two groups like that would be pretty sick.
But one of the things that's been fun about is kind of what
you said is like every time I play with someone, pretty much
everyone goes, I could think of like what if you did it like
with a gallows? Or what if you did it in a
saloon? Or what if you did it like on a
train And I'm like Z number two. I'm not even talking with it.
I'm putting out the base gain. And then everyone that's came up
with an idea for a scenario, I'm like, dope, I already have an
idea for for saving a guy on the gallows.
I have an idea for on top of a train car that's all futuresy
and stuff. I just want to get the core shit
out and and start with it. That's that's bad, yeah.
I think it'd be fun to be like on top of a train like no guns.
Everyone says to use some melee rules and you're trying to like
get to the front of the train or something.
So, but yeah, but that's it. I mean, that's, that's the first
thing. And then I'm working on my, my
goals of 2026 is A to be better than 2025, but B is to put out
death cutting stone. And I'm working on a, a sumo
skirmish game. I'm a, I'm a big, big sumo fan.
So I'm I'm really trying to put together something that I.
Feel I feel the sumo thing kind of hit everybody at the same
because like that's one thing we're found a dude who would
stream it on twit and like talk about what's happening and kind
of got enthralled with it. Kind of became our like like a
Saturday night thing or something where we're watching
exhibitions with like nobody in the audience, like some of the
big tournaments. And I've just randomly meet
people like, you know, I was in like Santa Fe had a ball and
like someone was talking sumo. And as we just talking about
sumo, like my buddy Devin just got really in the sumo.
Like I not just but like for the past years, I just found out.
It's kind of it's interesting kind of all hit at the same
time. It's cool.
I love it. Yeah.
I got super deep in a sumo at like this time last year.
Like I, I got into the end of 2023 and at the start of 2024,
the first tournament I really like sat down and, and got deep
into was the January tournament in 2024 and, or in 2025.
And man, last year was a crazy year for sumo.
So my my goal with the with my skirmish game is to give people
an intro to sumo so they actually understand like the
history and culture of sumo and like the basic rules of sumo as
almost like an intro to like actually watching sumo.
So I want to use like all real terms.
I want to get like a Japanese artist to do all the art for it
like and have it literally be like an intro to sumo and have
like a sumo skirmish game. So I already have like some 3D
printed sumo minis. I got like a like a doyo printed
out so people can like play in like the the sumo ring.
So that's my goal is to is to finish death cutting stone and
and get the working title is sumo 28, which will obviously
change, but that's what's going to happen with that.
But that's it. Yeah, Sumo Borg.
Yeah, that'll be the hag have. You seen Smackdown, there's a
skirt wrestling game that came out on Kick.
It was Kick started. I got it.
I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but they had got like 4
books. 1 is like full of submission holes or something
and it's all like you can like a ring.
They got an STL for a ring and you got your dude.
It's like a, it's like a professional playing.
That sounds sick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So check that
out. It looks awesome.
I flipped. I've read the bit of the first
book, like the core book. It seems fun.
I haven't gotten into like there's I think there's like a
cage like a death mat like supplement.
They all came out the same time too.
So like there is this Kickstarter and I don't know if
they would like the stretch goals I'm trying to remember,
but yeah, I got like 4 like less letter size staple bound books
in the in the mail and this thing finally fulfilled.
I shouldn't say fine because it wasn't late by any means.
It actually fulfilled really. But finally, because I was
waiting for it, I wanted it. But I got it and 4:00 is way
more than I thought I was going to get and it seemed really
cool. Yeah, that sounds so cool.
Yeah, it's it's it's interesting like trying to do cuz again, I'm
newer to the scene and and violence is really a hack of
another system. But trying to think of a way to
do like A1V1 skirmish game is a little bit it's definitely a
different mindset than having like a whole war band to be able
to kind of like balance stuff out with.
So it's been it's been interesting.
But I know that Tyler Welsh who wrote like ex and Ferris and
stuff, he's been working on a like a little wrestling skirmish
game. That's been cool to see, see him
working on that. So it'd be I definitely check
out Smackdown. That sounds awesome.
I mean, it's like they are. It's cool to like I want to say
it might be Brad Evet or it looks a lot like Brad Mcdevitt
from DC, but there's a cool pen and ink work in it it it's nice.
Definitely check it out. Knock down by Brainless
creations is that it? Might be or Smack down 1st
edition by John Carroll. Oh dude the artist sick.
He's getting like his head hidden with like a chair on the
front. Is that that one?
Yeah, yeah, there's four of them.
I mean, there's four of the books.
I think they're, I think close by.
I can Figure 1. Yeah, we'll definitely, we'll
definitely chat about it. Yeah, I just go on my
Kickstarter page here and see what it is.
Yeah, I mean it's been fun. Like I said, it definitely re
working on that and especially when we did the violence episode
where we we talked to all that stuff.
I was like, this is this is what I want to see more of in kind of
teach RPG space, because people were just like this isn't like a
big polished thing. This is literally just a new
womb system that I can use or this is a setting for it or this
is just like, you know, Blark did an adventure for it with
with with swine and and a bunch of really cool stuff.
And like CJ from from hot head collective that put out Glaive
had a had a really gorgeous thing in in the violence
collection too. So that's the stuff where I was
like this is this feels really cool.
This is things that aren't like super polished but are really
cool and look fantastic. So it.
Yeah, smack down Terminal Velocity by John Carroll.
Yeah. And it was, yeah, it was quite
a, quite a few, a few supplements, much more than I
was expecting that got my definitely got my money's worth
out of it, that's for sure. There's just so much cool stuff
in in the space that people just making like the weirdest stuff.
I mean, there's one that I want to play with that Adam vats told
me about because Adam is is getting deep in a skirmish now
and which is really awesome because Adam's brain with TTRPGS
is, you know, we've always said we're an Adam vast and podcast.
Well, there's one called meat where where you're basically
like in a cabin and you're trying to stop like the zombie
horde from like getting into your cabin and stuff that looks
really cool. And they have these STL files
where like there's basically like no walls.
You just have the floor of the cabin and then like the windows
and the doors. And so it looks really neat with
the way they set that up. So there's just so much
different crazy like Snack 28 from Fiver has where it's
literally like you're like a gingerbread man and stuff doing
stuff and you're fighting like in this, you know, kind of like
Wonderland World, but you're eating the other candy people.
So you can like, you know, heal yourself by cannibalizing stuff.
So it's a cannibal game, but you're all candy.
So is it cannibalism? I don't know.
There's just such amazing stuff out that you know that that,
like I said, it really reinvigorated my love for
tabletop and, and all the people in the space are have just been
so chill and so kind and, and it's been it's been cool to kind
of move into that space. It's always great when Adam
shows up to the scene too, because like, I'll just get like
the maddest, craziest ideas out there and look really good.
And even, you know, like, even if the game like isn't for you,
it's just good to know that that game exists.
Like somebody like reached out and touched that that weird
subject or that like odd gameplay mechanic that he comes
up with. And I mean, there's there's all
these I really feel that there's probably all these secret like
nerves in even the role, like the role-playing game scene,
right, where like you can probably follow a lot of these
nerve for new game systems or like innovations.
There's some string going back to something weird that Adam did
and experiments with some of them are amazing.
Some of them are just fun and like quick ideas that he gets
down. But just somebody who is out
there like just putting these little things, these little
ideas, just trying these little eat like everything from 1/2
baked idea that just wants to get out there and play with it
to something like Necronautilus or.
Yeah. More fleshed out or like the
board game, the slasher one, the 19 what was it, 19?
1978 yeah, yeah, I mean this thing about Adam they're they're
a person that should be a million times bigger in the
space that they are, but they're definitely one of the like your
favorite game designers, favorite game designers, people
who, you know the number of people that you'll meet and they
just go Nick or Nautilus and they go oh shit, yeah, that
broke my brain, you know what I mean?
Like is what else? Things.
You know, you turn up with Will a lot Will.
Like I got a few books from Will at packs that were like pretty
out there. Like the monster fucker game.
Yeah, awesome. Like just yeah, it's incredible.
Like. You know, somebody made this as
like, it's great. Then I got another one that I
started to read, but I haven't, it would seem like a lot.
So I kind of put it aside until like I could have a little bit
of breathing room, but it was one of the big like envelope
game. Like a it's like a stuff like a
trail. That's the one.
Yeah, yeah, it is like, wow. Like that's, that's something
special. And torque.
Torque is cool. Torque is Torque is so fucking
cool. Torque is one of those ones that
like straddles the line between like board game and TRPG and
skirmish game and it's it's so fucking good.
I think it was one of our games of the year last year, like just
because it's amazing. But yeah, I'd like, you know,
the they do the brain trust podcast and, you know, one of
the Kickstarters they did for oh, it's right there.
It's like the A guide to casting phantoms was something that they
did the Kickstarter for and then did the whole like iterations of
it, like on the podcast. Like the brain trust podcast
with those two is, is incredible and is always inspiring to
listen to. So yeah, I mean, good luck press
is is Will Yelpst and set Pines and then Adam Vass for those
that if you listen to the show and you somehow haven't heard us
talk about Adam Bass, I'd be shocked.
But world champ Gameco. But yeah, he's been building
terrain and and, and talking about skirmish and stuff and I'm
like, dude, I'm so happy because I've been trying to get him into
it for like a couple months and be like, you should check this
out. You should check this out, You
should check this out. And and finally something
clicked a little bit and he was just like, dude, I'm doing this.
And then he'll have like I had this idea day where he was like
just 10 things I want to do and I'm like, this is perfect.
I love this. This is like, you know, peak
atom bass. So yeah, you're right.
Like every yeah, right. Yeah.
So I don't know, I can't wait. I can't wait to see what what
world champ comes out with this year.
And I don't know, 2026 we're let's I want it to be better
than 2025. We'll see how that goes.
But. You know, we just got, we just
got to stick together and support each other and help each
other out and give each other a little when we're grumpy and fed
up with the universe. Yeah, You know, like.
Yeah, I mean, one of the things I want to do this year, Yeah,
one of the. So I I one of my biggest
problems, and we'll just get this.
I hate where I live. There's nothing here.
There is no culture. There is no anything.
Yeah, so. I have very limited choices of
people like I've got some buddies that I play games with,
you know, we're all Blake busy and everything is ebbs and flows
and right now, like one just had a kid one's like, you know,
taking care of their folks. One's like, you know, so it's it
just isn't at the moment with me and my schedule, but you know, I
got like an OK game stool. It's not like.
Super great. But I mean, there's also, you
know, I have to drive like an hour and a half to go see a
show. Like, yeah, there's no good.
Restaurants are kind of weak and it sucks.
Yeah. And and.
Yeah, same thing. I mean, my, my like 3 friends at
work, like 2 of them just had a kid and one of them is like
having a second kid. So it's just like, OK, give me
like 3 years and I'm down to play stuff.
And then yeah, we have surprisingly less than a mile
from my house there's a Warhammer store, which is cool,
but all they do is Kill Team and you can't do it's Warhammer.
It's not like a game store. So you can't do any, can't go
play cauldron in there and I paint with fucking enamels and
oils. So I can't go paint in there
because I'm not going to have like fucking, you know, white
spirits. Yeah.
So and then just hours away from everything else.
So like my goal for 2026 is just way more cons, like way more of
those little cons. Like I'm definitely going to
under the dice fest. Definitely have to go to
Adepticon. There's a cool thing happening
in a couple weeks in, in January.
So like every little thing I can go to that might be a weekend.
I know there's like a PDX con is happening in February, like
everyone that I can get a weekend off for.
I don't care. Like I'm working extra just so I
can fly to to see all these people that I talked to online.
But I'm also encouraging people. I like Tabletop Simulator.
Yeah. Oh, dude, between two Cairns
con, I can't wait for that. Yeah.
Between 2 cons. Yeah, between two cons.
Yeah, well, now there's three of them.
So when are they going to become between 3 Cairns?
That's what I want to know. I like it.
Just yes, that's what I think is one of the best, those guys.
Yeah, we we talked about, you know, Hunter hunter likes
adventures and we talked about kind of doing adventures on the
show, but I'm just like, I don't really use them and there's
already between two Cairns. So like, why would we do
something that's not going to be as good as a fucking those three
talking about adventure. So, but yeah, that's the goal,
like. Not Brad.
Right. Don't have?
Victor is a he's a gift. He's a treasure.
Yeah, that, it cracks me up. He's just as funny.
It's I don't know. Yeah, so they're we we
definitely are. I definitely listen to podcasts
that are way better than us. So if you listen to us, you
definitely need to check out Between two Cairns, Hive, Scum,
brain trust. What else have I been listening
to? Like Daiku has a lot of really
cool stuff out there. But.
But yeah, that's the goal of the year is to see all these people.
I also love Tabletop simulator. I keep trying to get people to
play more in TTS and I think everyone thinks there's a bigger
learning curve than there is to it.
But I'm like pro, I'll play. I also work night shift, which
does not help with the schedule, but, but I'm building like every
board and cauldron so I can try to do a cauldron campaign and,
and, you know, trying to do a lot of stuff in there.
So just if anyone wants to play war games hopping to our discord
and and and come play TTS cuz that that's what we got.
Yeah, yeah, no, it's yeah, 2026. Let's I just hoping to get back
into this one myself, like just get back into creating and maybe
not even do some games at least for some personal work like
Magic the Gathering totes sort of I think knocked me out of a
Funko. It just doing something
different, kind of like with Black Knight, right, Like it was
different. So it kind of like is a restart
for the brain. So yeah, I don't know, maybe
work art books and comics and stuff like that.
And I still buy a lot of undergrounds and a lot of small
press books. Maybe I'll do some something
along those. I don't know.
But yeah, it's got to be. It's got to be.
It's better than 2025. And you would, and you would
think, I mean, 2025 for me at least was the worst year since
2020. So I mean, I, I think there's
really only up from here, but we'll, we'll see how it goes.
But like you said, I mean, I think a lot of people kind of
hit that point. And I think a lot of people are
kind of feeling the same way we're feeling where it's like,
OK, like, even if the world's not better, like we need to kind
of collectively pull each other up and, and kind of work on, you
know, building those communities again and, and, and reaching out
to people and, and giving some grace to people that deserve it.
And, and, you know, that's definitely a, a goal in 2026 is,
you know, make more friends, keep more friends, build more
community and, and really, you know.
Yeah, you know, let the world crush you when it gets bad.
You know you can only do so much until you got to pick yourself
up, kind of start pushing back and like building the core, like
re strengthening your not just your body core, but your mental
core, right and start getting getting back into the community
and getting getting back with that inspire you.
I think that's the big thing, right, Is like getting like
getting the fire back is sort of the my goal for 2026 is getting
the spark like relay that part. Yeah, get some stuff.
That's fun. It sounds like you're on the
track and I feel the same way. Like I said, finding the
skirmish community, finding all of that.
And what's cool too is like, I mean, again, you kind of started
our, I just looked it up. You were, I think the, the third
episode of the year, the 1st guest we had on for the year.
So now this is their tradition. You got to come back and be the
1st guest of the year next year. But, but what's, it was funny
too, because again, when you first came on the show, you
reached out to us and I never, I was like, you know, David
Austin's not really a fan because no one's really a fan of
us. It's definitely the imposter
syndrome. But then I start listening to to
hive scum and every cool thing that was going on.
They're like, oh, by the way, David Hoskins is here.
And I'm like, that's, that's super cool.
So having you know, Someone Like You, being able to reach out to
who's, who's an incredible artist is an incredible person
who's also in the skirmish scene and stuff like that.
You know, you're the kind of people that that are going to
make 2026 better for people. So I appreciate you coming on
and being here and doing all the things you do.
It's it's been really good talking to you.
Thanks. Yeah, man, anytime like Outlook,
do another hangout or we'll do a recap or you know, if there's
anything you want to talk about, I'm around like.
Yeah, I'll shoot you a text this time and then we'll figure.
It out yeah Instagram I don't like people like Instagram I
don't get any notifications I try not to check it all that
much my mental health so Naomi or text me it's the best way to.
Go, I'll do, yeah, I'll, I'll get you a certified letter.
But so for, for, for all the stuff you're working on,
obviously people can find, you know, EF and stuff like that.
But since you're getting back into freelance and everything,
where can people find your stuff?
Where can people find you and and all of that?
Yeah, so I also got to read like my website realized I hadn't
updated for like 15 years or things.
So I think I I kind of naked it and it's just that like a list
of things that I've done, like a little bit of an RPGCV, but you
can find them out there at davidhoskins.com or you can just
add David Hoskins for the most part, like Instagram blue.
I those are about it. And I do something wise and Even
so like pretty big. But yeah, you can reach out
there or just tell me through my website or David Hoskins art
email.com is my easiest fact. So yeah, just reach out, try my
best to get back to you. That's another thing, your New
Year's resolution, be better about replying to messages
there. You go.
Well, we're, we're only yeah, we're three days in.
I'll shoot you an e-mail and a text and we'll see how it goes.
But it's always a pleasure talking with you.
Let's let's have a couple more of these throughout the year.
Maybe we'll get Hunter on for one of them.
And. And yeah, again, thank you so
much for being here. Yeah.
Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me see you
guys. Cool.
Yeah, alright. Have a good one everybody.
Bye.