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Hello and welcome to the Weekly 
Scroll Podcast. 

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My name is Ryan and joining me 
today is Alan Hall. 

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How you doing this morning, 
Alan? 

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I'm doing great. 
How are you? 

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Just wonderful. 
Not like we've been talking for 

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like half an hour or anything, 
but now we're on stream and 

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getting going. 
We got to start over. 

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That's fine. 
We got to do everything all over

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again. 
This is what we do every time. 

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But welcome back. 
I wrote down last time you were 

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on the show was episode 132, and
now you're going to be episode 

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like 320 something. 
So that's almost two years ago 

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was the last time you were on 
the show? 

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Yeah, it's, it has been a minute
for sure. 

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Yeah, last time when I came on 
the first time was to talk about

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my first Kickstarter, which is 
Godspark. 

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And now we're here to talk about
Out of the Iron Labyrinth, which

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is my 8th crowdfunding campaign.
It's been a good year, a couple 

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of years. 
That's crazy that in a two year 

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span, so this is your 8th. 
So between that one and this 

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one, you've had six Kickstarters
on top of the one before and the

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one after in two years. 
So this is 8 Kickstarters in two

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years? 
Yeah, that's what we're looking 

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at. 
And that's on top of like other 

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stuff that you've also been 
putting out in the interim. 

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You have literally bundles of 
like Merk Borg, like a bundles 

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for luminal horror. 
You still have your Oh gosh, 

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it's a sprinkles the. 
The kid game. 

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Yeah, the Unicorn Sprinkles is 
missing. 

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That's right. 
Yeah, that's still up there. 

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It's still available. 
Yeah, how? 

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How do you have the time to put 
out all of this stuff? 

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I don't have a satisfying answer
for you, but I spend a lot of 

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time thinking about this. 
I have a commute to the day job 

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and I'm all, I've got nothing to
think about, but hey, think 

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about a new game. 
I love doing small stuff. 

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So like last year there were a 
bunch of new projects, but a lot

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of them were like one page or 
pamphlets or those kind of 

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things. 
But I mean, yeah, it's just 

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moving from one thing to the 
next. 

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I try not to get bogged down too
much, try not to let things 

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balloon too much in in the 
development, in the writing, 

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which can definitely happen. 
Yeah, I mean the, the number of 

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Kickstarter updates you get that
are like, hey, sorry guys, like 

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another delay or like it's got 
bigger than I thought or now 

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we're behind. 
Yeah, not you, which is great. 

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But but that is that is a 
pitfall that is common. 

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But I guess rewinding it back a 
little bit because again, last 

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time you were on was Godspark, 
that was two years ago, was your

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first crowdfunding. 
We probably talked about this 

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then, but again, two years ago, 
I don't remember 2 weeks ago, 

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what got you into tabletop 
gaming and then at that point 

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what got you into actually 
wanting to start writing and 

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publishing adventures? 
So I guess I would, I would say 

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I started with tabletop gaming 
as a kid in middle school 

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playing Warhammer 40K and 
playing Magic Gathering. 

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Like talking like the I don't 
even did they call them 

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additions of magic. 
It was like 4th like the they 

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had just a little 4 on the 
little Roman numeral. 

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So they were a while ago. 
And so we did that for a while 

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and and through high school a 
little bit and then sort of fell

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off on it. 
And then I actually in 2019, 

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some people at work wanted to 
start a Dungeons and Dragons 

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game and I had never played, but
I knew about it and I'm like, 

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this seems fun. 
So we played a few games and 

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that ended with the pandemic and
I'm like, Oh, that was a lot of 

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fun. 
I want to keep doing that kind 

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of thing. 
And then from there I started 

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writing, which pandemic caused 
lots of people to start writing 

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and so writing this and that, 
and then eventually found the 

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sort of self-publishing tabletop
scene. 

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Yeah, and what was the first 
thing you actually put out in 

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the scene? 
So I would, so the first thing I

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published were actually some 
novels I published a a sort of 

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A5 book epic fantasy series 
that's all set in like a game of

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DND. 
And so I did that and then in 

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the process of trying to market 
that, which didn't go anywhere, 

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that's when I started finding 
people that were publishing but 

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other stuff. 
And so then the first like game 

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product that I put out was 
actually a Mark Borg adventure. 

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It's like I actually took one of
the dungeons that I had written 

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for the novels and I started out
with Mark Borg and I put it on 

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the Mark Board Discord. 
I'm like, hey, I did this thing 

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and people were like, oh, this 
is so cool. 

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And like the next day somebody's
like, Oh yeah, we played that 

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last night. 
It was great. 

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And that was that just why I was
hooked after that. 

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It's like, oh, I just made this 
and people just did it. 

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Like that's incredible. 
Whereas with the novels, it's 

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like, you know, I'm begging 
people to like, look at my book.

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Unless you know me, then you 
can't look at it. 

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But like it's just trying to 
like get strangers to get 

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involved, invested in your the 
thing you made is impossible. 

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And, and Merkborg especially 
like, you know, right after the 

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pandemic, because I think if I 
remember correctly, the Merkborg

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Kickstarter dropped like mid 
2020. 

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That early Merkborg community, 
especially when it was still 

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doing the like the Merkborg cult
and stuff was rabid for Merkborg

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stuff. 
I remember like finding it later

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and seeing all the jams that 
people were dropping, like the 

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folk jam and all sorts of stuff.
It's crazy. 

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Yeah, so this was like mid 2021 
when I did that. 

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So I missed Kickstart. 
I had still, I still had not 

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back to Kickstarter at that 
point. 

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Like I didn't, I wasn't into 
that yet. 

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But yeah, I found, I don't even 
know how I ended up at Mark 

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Board. 
I think people were talking 

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about it on Twitter back then 
and I'm like, this seems cool. 

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This looks easier than trying to
write it for 5th edition, which 

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is something I toyed with 
because the of the novels and 

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being that being where my 
introduction to tabletop, like 

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role-playing and I'm like 
writing for 5th edition's super 

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hard. 
Like every stat box, the whole 

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page, I'm like, it's terrible. 
And then I was like, oh, there's

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other things. 
And Merckberg would just happen 

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to be the thing that I grabbed 
first and I loved it. 

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And so yeah, that didn't From 
there, just started working my 

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way into making my own games and
writing for other systems and 

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things. 
Yeah, and when you so I said 

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like the things that I kind of 
know you, well, I know all of 

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your stuff. 
I have all of your stuff. 

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But like the things that it 
feels like you've written the 

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most for are Merkborg and 
Liminal Horror. 

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We just, you found out, you 
know, we just found out that you

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kind of not stumbled upon, but 
you know, Merkborg was kind of 

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was was there what got you into 
Liminal horror? 

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Because I feel like at that 
point you would have been 

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digging more into the indie 
scene and kind of known more 

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about like the rest of what was 
going on. 

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What? 
What kind of pulled you towards 

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Liminal Horror? 
That was actually like, Oh no, 

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it was a jam. 
That was what it was one of the 

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the jams that they had, which 
was the, it wasn't the twisted 

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classics, it was the one from 
before that, I think. 

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But whatever. 
Yeah, they, they had some jams 

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and I was really into doing game
jams at that point because I 

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didn't really have like a, a 
direction. 

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And, you know, I hadn't started 
doing crowdfunding all that much

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yet. 
And I didn't have like, oh, this

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is the type of stuff that I 
make. 

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And so it's jams are awesome 
because it's like, oh, here's 

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somebody would tell you you're 
going to write for this system 

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and it's going to have this 
theme. 

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And I'm like, OK, cool. 
I can, I can work with those 

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that, you know, the whole 
restrictions breed creativity. 

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And so it's like that I really 
started with doing jams all the 

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time. 
And I guess they, so the Mahor 

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hosted a few jams and I got in 
on that. 

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And so that helped. 
And I was also at that time 

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writing a lot for a game called 
The Lost Bay, which is still in 

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Kickstarter hell. 
But at the end, it's changed 

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significantly over the over the 
last few years. 

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But at that time I met Eco 
online and started writing for 

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Lost Bay. 
And in my mind there was a lot 

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of crossover between those two 
settings. 

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Nowadays, I'd say it's not as 
much. 

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There's less horror in The Lost 
Bay now, it's more fantastical. 

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But at the time I was like, oh, 
I can do things for both of 

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these. 
And that really worked for me. 

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Yeah, so we got the Artifacts of
Horror jam, the Tales from the 

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Void jam, then the Twisted 
Classics jam. 

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Yeah, I definitely did Twisted 
Classics because that was what 

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like my, I took horror on the 
Hill, which was TSRB 5 and I 

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read the and and I'm like, it's 
got horror in the name. 

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This is perfect. 
And then I read it and it wasn't

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horror at all. 
But I took that and that was my 

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jumping off point for when I 
wrote On the Hill. 

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It's just a it's a little horror
adventure. 

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Gotcha. 
So what? 

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So you say you kind of like 
Merkborg kind of fell into your 

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lap and then you started to do 
them in a horror. 

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But if you look at that from 
like an outside perspective, it 

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leans you into like the very 
much like the darker kind of 

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aspects of teach RBGS. 
Do you feel like that's where 

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you're actually at? 
Or did it happen to be you found

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Merkborg and enjoyed it as a 
system and then you found them 

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in a horror? 
Or do you feel like you have? 

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No, I, I, I wouldn't say that's 
like my vibe is like the, the 

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dark and grimy and horror. 
And I mean grim dark versus 

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horror. 
I wouldn't really say that's my 

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vibe as a person even it was 
sort of those systems were 

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accessible. 
And one thing I really like 

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about writing for small indie 
systems is that I can just know 

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the creators, like right, like I
can just I can just, I mean, 

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I've got I can just talk to Yo 
and nor I can just talk to Pele.

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I can just talk to Gob and 
archives and Josh Domansky. 

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And like, you know, you look at 
these big systems, 5th edition 

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Pathfinder, whatever called 
Cthulhu, like either there's not

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one person or you can't talk to 
that one that you can't just 

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like get in discord and like 
talk to them. 

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So that was awesome because then
I felt like I'm doing something 

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that's I'm enjoying creatively, 
that's fun. 

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And this other person 
appreciates that, right? 

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Like when I was talking with Eco
and writing for the Las Bay, 

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like he appreciates because he's
got a system that needs support 

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and I'm over here writing 
adventures to support the 

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system. 
So it's like, and I love being 

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able to just have those 
conversations with the creators 

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of the game while I'm writing 
the adventures. 

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Yeah, that's, I mean, that's one
of the best things about the 

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indie scene in general is how 
close you are. 

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Well, small market scene, but 
how close you are to the 

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creators. 
But also the community is such a

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big part of the of that scene in
that like if you really want a 

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game to kind of take off, you 
kind of need a lot of people 

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around you like pushing it, 
doing that kind of thing. 

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Like you said, ego in the like 
GM specifically, you know, if 

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you put out a system and really 
encourage a lot of people to 

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make things for it, that's 
what's going to push it farther 

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and farther. 
That's what happened with 

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Merkborg. 
That's what happened with 

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mothership. 
That's it up in this mouse 

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reader. 
So the community is such an 

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intrinsic part of the like this 
small teach RBG space and 

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actually getting games bigger 
and more popular. 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
And you know, if you're just one

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person and you write a game 
system, cool, you ready 1 

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adventure for it? 
Awesome. 

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You people have a one shot. 
Your game has one as a one 

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session game now. 
Like unless you are going to be 

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writing adventures every week, 
every month forever, like your 

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game is only going to have the 
allure of oh, let's try this 

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00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,120
thing, see if it's cool and 
you'll be like, oh, it's cool, 

224
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,480
but that was it. 
That's the whole game. 

225
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,800
So pewing for smaller companies 
that can't just pay people to 

226
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,720
write adventures all day and all
night, it's a it's a great 

227
00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,240
relationship to have and be 
like, hey, I write adventures, 

228
00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,560
I'll write adventures and people
like, oh, I have a system that 

229
00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:42,200
needs adventures. 
So it works really well. 

230
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:49,200
Yeah, it's very, what's a nice 
way to say symbiotic? 

231
00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,440
I was sorry. 
I was like, what's what's what's

232
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,760
the word that's like parasitic 
but good. 

233
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,440
It's symbiotic in that light. 
Creators make a cool system that

234
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,360
people really enjoy. 
So people will write stuff for 

235
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,000
that system, which, like when 
you look at it from a monetary 

236
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,320
perspective, encourages people 
to buy the system, but then the 

237
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,720
system then encourages people to
buy the things that the 

238
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,440
community is writing. 
So like it kind of builds itself

239
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:15,960
up and up and up and up all the 
way around. 

240
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,720
Absolutely. 
And I have found, you know, I've

241
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,120
written some of my own games, 
I've published stand alone games

242
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,120
that border on systems, but 
they're usually just like 

243
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,920
self-contained things where you 
play this one maybe 2 times and 

244
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,520
like that's it, you got the 
whole experience. 

245
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:38,240
But what I've found is that like
system design isn't interesting 

246
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,440
to me. 
Like, I feel like there are 

247
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:45,000
enough systems out there that 
people can play whatever story 

248
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,880
they want to play. 
That may or may not be true. 

249
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,280
I'm sure lots of people have 
opinions about that. 

250
00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,960
But in from my from what I want 
to do, it's like I'm really 

251
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,600
interested in the story itself. 
And that's where the adventure 

252
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:54,600
let's me get into it. 
Right. 

253
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,040
I started with writing novels 
and it's like, yeah, a lot of 

254
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,040
people say, like adventure 
writers, you should read about 

255
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:00,120
adventure. 
Like, they should just written a

256
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,600
novel. 
And it's like, yeah, that's 

257
00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,440
that's fine. 
And but that's what I'm into. 

258
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,600
I want to give you half a novel 
and let you figure out what 

259
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,840
happens to the other half. 
And that's fun for me. 

260
00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,760
And sure, not everybody plays 
adventures. 

261
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,720
Not everybody's going to use 
that every adventure the same 

262
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,560
way. 
But but in it's in that setting 

263
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:20,400
up a story that I enjoy. 
So that's what I do. 

264
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:23,600
Yeah, that was actually my next 
question that you hit is like 

265
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,400
why adventures instead of 
systems? 

266
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,840
So you coming from like the as 
like you said, the first thing 

267
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:31,880
you published being a novel 
makes perfect sense that you 

268
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,520
like the story part. 
And when you when you look to 

269
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:42,000
write adventures, do does the 
system, do you find your 

270
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,440
something like OK, I would like 
to write for liminal horror, for

271
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,240
example, so I'm going to write 
this adventure. 

272
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,240
Or do you find yourself coming 
up with an idea for an adventure

273
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,200
and then try to find a system 
that would best fit it? 

274
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,360
Usually it's been the former 
where I'm like, oh, I want to do

275
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,960
something for liminal horror. 
Let me think of something that's

276
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,080
going to work for liminal 
horror. 

277
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,400
Or like we got OSC month right 
now. 

278
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,160
It's like, oh, we've got OSC 
month, there's demons. 

279
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,840
Let me think of something that 
can go with demons. 

280
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:12,440
I have stories in my head that 
don't have systems yet, stories 

281
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,640
that I want to be able to 
present to you to interact with.

282
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,360
But like I haven't figured out 
exactly the right system to do 

283
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:21,400
it in. 
A lot of those are going to 

284
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,400
become journaling games, 
probably, which is in the same 

285
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,680
being, which is taking the 
adventure and removing the the 

286
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,760
most of the mechanics from it 
and being like here's like 

287
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,160
you're you're the prompts, 
right. 

288
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,200
So in the solo journaling game 
that you can play these in react

289
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,880
to these and write. 
And so a lot of the stories that

290
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,720
are just rolling around in my 
head are probably going to end 

291
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:47,240
up going that way because 
they're more formed than you 

292
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,360
would want for an adventure, you
know, adventure you need to 

293
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,640
leave enough open for the 
players to have agency about 

294
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,080
what how they interact with it. 
But so I would I sort of have a 

295
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,840
little bit of both going on, but
in general it's I pick a system 

296
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,200
like this is what I'm right for 
next, and it's like, what can I 

297
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,040
write in that system? 
Got. 

298
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:09,600
You so when you find yourself 
the the journaling thing is 

299
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,680
really interesting to me or like
the way that you think about 

300
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,400
writing journaling adventures 
versus like adventure adventure.

301
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:18,480
So we talked about reviewing 
adventures on the show, reviewed

302
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,440
1 adventure and then I ranted 
for 30 minutes about my opinion 

303
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,320
on adventures that we never 
reviewed another one. 

304
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,320
So I. 
I listen to, I listen to that 

305
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:27,160
episode. 
I know. 

306
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,080
I clearly have strong opinions 
about adventures, but I guess it

307
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,600
would be very different in a 
journaling game because I for 

308
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,680
me, I generally gear more 
towards solo adventure games and

309
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:43,720
solo journaling games, which I 
think also kind of like why I 

310
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,040
gear more towards like systems 
and like you can see like why, 

311
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,760
right? 
Like the splits, when you look 

312
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,040
at it totally makes sense that 
if you're like a story person 

313
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:56,840
leaning into solo journaling, do
you find that you're able to 

314
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,400
engage more with the way you 
want the story to flow when 

315
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,040
you're writing an adventure for 
journaling games than with 

316
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,560
writing for systems? 
I know you said a little bit 

317
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,560
like you have to leave it more 
open for the players, but do you

318
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,400
feel like you're able to 
actually put in like the story 

319
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,760
beats and kind of conclusions 
and and things a little bit more

320
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,000
in journaling versus adventure, 
I would actually say? 

321
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:24,920
No, mainly because of the so far
the types of journaling games 

322
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,000
that I've done, they're not 
usually like you get this type 

323
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,040
of a event 1st and then you get 
this type of it's more like 

324
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,280
here's 36 for the D66 table or 
52. 

325
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,040
So deck of cards, things that 
could happen and you're going to

326
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,840
do things that'll decide what 
you'll you'll draw end up 

327
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,240
drawing from a deck or rolling 
the dice. 

328
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,000
But those things can happen in 
any order. 

329
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:51,000
And so these are just I try to 
encapsulate tiny moments that 

330
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,480
could be interesting and could 
build on other ones, but they're

331
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,480
not all. 
But there's no, I don't think in

332
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,160
my head this is going to happen 
before that because they could 

333
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,920
all happen at any order For most
of the games that I, that I've 

334
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,880
written in for the way that 
they, most of these, I see them 

335
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,359
working as far as with the 
adventures, especially in ones 

336
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,240
where I'm putting in like a doom
clock or something like I can 

337
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,480
very much build, Oh, this thing 
is going to happen 1st and then 

338
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,800
this thing is going to happen 
and the players are going to be 

339
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,680
doing other things and they're 
going to have to react to these 

340
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,960
things in this order. 
So you sort of you can prescribe

341
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,960
that in that way, but not every 
adventure gets a doom clock. 

342
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,640
So it's like like the we were 
talking about out of the Iron 

343
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,120
Labyrinth is much more open than
what I've written before. 

344
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,880
It's just like, here's a space. 
I don't know what you're going 

345
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,000
to do there, but there's a lot 
to do, yeah. 

346
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:42,880
And that was going to be my next
part with with adventure 

347
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,120
writing. 
Have you prior to out of the 

348
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:46,560
island labyrinth? 
Because obviously we're going to

349
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:47,600
talk about it. 
It's over here today. 

350
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,040
We talked about a little bit 
before stream started, but do 

351
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,400
you feel like you when you write
adventures? 

352
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,080
I don't say a railroad because 
you know like, but have you felt

353
00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,920
found yourself in the way you 
write adventures evolving to in 

354
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,560
in any way? 
Like, do you feel like the first

355
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,040
adventures you wrote versus 1 
now have like changed the way 

356
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,080
that you think about adventures?
Absolutely, yeah. 

357
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:13,480
I mean, I'm growing and learning
as I do this for the early ones,

358
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,080
even just, you know, like by 
that first dungeon that I wrote 

359
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,280
is very, it's a 5 room dungeon. 
It's just like the the, the 

360
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,400
either the cliche or the 
classic. 

361
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,400
However you want to look at that
five room dungeon, it's a one. 

362
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,240
There's a, it's one way in, one 
way out, and sure you can still 

363
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,840
play in that, we can still have 
fun in that. 

364
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,720
But I've definitely learned a 
lot about presenting just 

365
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,920
choices and allowing for things 
to happen. 

366
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,920
So the Baron script was my 
master month book and that is 

367
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,880
very much like, here is a whole 
forest totally open. 

368
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,160
There are 6 different dungeons. 
Some have bigger monsters than 

369
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,360
other, but I'm not going to tell
you about what's it, what's 

370
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,880
where, and you're just going to 
go out and find stuff. 

371
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,720
And so which I think is much 
better. 

372
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,200
I think that is a better and 
more playable and more usable 

373
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,240
thing. 
But that five room dungeon 

374
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:05,800
doesn't mean you can't play 
that. 

375
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,120
That's still you can still use 
that for something. 

376
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,680
But I feel like the the bigger, 
more open stuff is definitely 

377
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,320
going to have be more useful to 
people that are trying to play 

378
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,320
the game. 
Now, what do you think is the 

379
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,320
impetus for like changing 
towards that? 

380
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,320
Like is it been critique from 
people? 

381
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,280
Has it been playing more of your
own adventures, just playing 

382
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:29,840
more systems and adventures in 
general? 

383
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,640
Like, what do you think has 
spurred like the changes you've 

384
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,320
made in the in the way you'd 
write adventures? 

385
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,040
It it's probably a lot of seeing
how other people do it and 

386
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,440
seeing what other people seeing,
you know, adventures they have 

387
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,120
talked about all the time going 
and looking at those like, what 

388
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:51,480
did they do that I'm not doing? 
And you know, I don't, I haven't

389
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,160
actually, I don't get all that 
much critique. 

390
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,560
I never really hear much from 
people about my own stuff. 

391
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,920
So it's I'm going out and seeing
what are people saying watching 

392
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:01,920
review show, like listening to 
between two Karens. 

393
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,480
Now that's a very specific type 
of gameplay that they're aiming 

394
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,840
for, but it's still useful to 
hear what they say about stuff. 

395
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:14,000
I really enjoyed your, your take
on that one adventure, but like 

396
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,600
reading reviews and things and 
reading adventures and seeing 

397
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,600
what other people are doing and 
then trying to incorporate 

398
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,880
seeing what I like and what I 
don't like from how other people

399
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,640
are doing it versus that first 
one, which was like completely 

400
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,760
in a vacuum. 
It was just like, I didn't even 

401
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:29,880
know what a fire room dungeon 
was. 

402
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,040
And then it wasn't till after I 
put it out, I'm like, Oh yeah, 

403
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:33,160
that's pretty much what I did 
there. 

404
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,280
And it was so, you know, 
learning. 

405
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,400
Yeah, but it's so nice to go 
back and look at that. 

406
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,880
I remember when I first got into
D&D and I started gyming and I 

407
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,280
mean, it became like a forever 
gym. 

408
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:50,480
I wrote an adventure and this 
would have been in like 2014 and

409
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:55,640
I found it like 6 months ago. 
And I was so proud. 

410
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,880
Actually, I was like, this is 
not terrible. 

411
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,160
Like I like what I did here. 
I it's it's like in its way like

412
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,120
completely trophy, but I was 
like go you at like, you know, 

413
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:11,480
14 years ago or some shit. 
It was it's crazy, but but this 

414
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,200
is like only like like a couple 
of years ago for you at this 

415
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,960
point. 
Like do you look back at that in

416
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:20,240
that SIM kind of like this was 
the start of it kind of way, or 

417
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,760
do you like beat yourself up 
about it? 

418
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,080
I mean, I don't beat myself up 
about it, but I'm certainly not.

419
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,920
It's not like it's not long 
enough ago for me to be like, 

420
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,120
oh, I was so young and dumb. 
It's like, no, that was it 

421
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:34,160
wasn't that long ago. 
Like I probably should have done

422
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,960
some research before I just 
jumped into this, but hey, yeah,

423
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,880
you know, now I did. 
And so a lot of those early 

424
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,720
things, like I, I printed them 
and like you said, like I got 

425
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,840
them as add-ons on my 
Kickstarters, mainly because I 

426
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,200
need to get rid of them. 
Otherwise I don't can't, can't 

427
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:49,800
move them. 
But it's like, hey, you know, 

428
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,120
he's get all this stuff from 
work for. 

429
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,520
It's like there's some good 
stuff in here, but like I'm 

430
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,520
letting that stuff go out of 
print slowly and just sort of 

431
00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,160
trying to focus on the the 
nicer, bigger, better written 

432
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,600
and better produced things that 
I've been doing more recently 

433
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,920
kind of in general. 
And, and, and again, you've been

434
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,560
producing a lot. 
This is your 8th Kickstarter. 

435
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:18,720
So like, so I know that I 
probably have, I scratched the 

436
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,280
word probably, I know that I 
have a ton of Kickstarters that 

437
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,720
started before your first one 
that I still have not received. 

438
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,160
So how has it been fulfilling? 
I guess Baron Script's not quite

439
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,080
in everyone's hands yet. 
Like six of seven Kickstarters. 

440
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,040
Wait, do I have Baron script? 
Did I get that the other day? 

441
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,360
Did you mail that already? 
Yeah, I mean, you should have 

442
00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:40,600
it. 
The EU and the UK are the people

443
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,640
that should be waiting on it. 
I I was just like, wait, no, I 

444
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,880
think I got two things in a did.
Did Space Penguin send yours 

445
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,040
out? 
No, I just send it myself. 

446
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,120
And there was, OK, then I 
definitely got yours. 

447
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:54,400
So 7 Kickstarters are fulfilled 
from you in like 2 years or two 

448
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,760
to three years. 
How like, like not only have you

449
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,320
written the Adventures, which is
crazy produced and they look 

450
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,240
great, but you've actually ran 
and fulfilled 7 Kickstarters and

451
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,400
are currently running an eighth?
I, I, I, I. 

452
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:15,840
It's like, I don't really know 
and it's just I, I don't know, I

453
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,840
don't have an answer for you. 
It's like, you know, the things 

454
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,920
are always happening, but it's, 
it's sort of like I, I'm OK with

455
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,680
having overlapping work flows. 
So when I sit down to write 

456
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,920
something, I'll write it and 
then I'll say, I'll send it to 

457
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,200
an editor. 
And now while I'm waiting for 

458
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,560
the editor to do it, I'm going 
to go write another adventure 

459
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,760
and, or write another game or be
working on something else. 

460
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,880
And then when they get back to 
me, it's OK, I'll shelve that 

461
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,440
and I'll work on this again and 
I'll do layout and then I'll be 

462
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,280
like, OK, now I'll send brief to
the artist about what I need 

463
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,960
from for this one. 
And then I'll go back and send 

464
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,600
get that other one ready to go 
to a different editor. 

465
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,080
So it's like I've got things in 
motion all the time, like 

466
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:52,920
overlapping different stages of 
the way. 

467
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:58,600
So like right now I've got out 
of the iron Labyrinth is it's a,

468
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,160
it's a full, it's a, it is text 
complete, right? 

469
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,720
Like it needs editing, it needs 
attention, it needs some stuff 

470
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,480
to be punched up, but it's with 
my artist slash editor right now

471
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,320
for developmental edit. 
And so in the meantime, I have 

472
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,000
another adventure that I wrote 
that's got, I just got the art 

473
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,880
back from that I'm cleaning up 
and getting ready for release 

474
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,880
this summer called The Green 
Who's King. 

475
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,760
So like that's just a band of a 
little adventure. 

476
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,440
Not going to be crowdfunding, 
but I'm going to print it and 

477
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,840
I'll just sell it to my store. 
And I've also got a little 

478
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,040
skirmish game in my head that's 
like, I'm just like laying out 

479
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,760
the foundation for so you know, 
it's always have a little bit of

480
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,600
something. 
So every day you've got 

481
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,440
something to work on, even if 
I'm waiting on the things. 

482
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,720
Are you one of like the 10 
people in this space that 

483
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,960
doesn't have ADHD? 
Because I'm the kind of person 

484
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,880
where I'm like, I would like to 
hobby tonight. 

485
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:53,800
Oh no, there's like one too many
things on my desk. 

486
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,560
Yes, I'm not hobbing tonight and
it's just gone. 

487
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:01,040
So when I was writing my game, 
it was like one day of work from

488
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,760
being finished. 
So I just didn't work on it for 

489
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,680
five months and then did it in 
one day and released it. 

490
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,520
Like that's just how my brain 
works. 

491
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,920
So I guess I'm. 
Working on multiple. 

492
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,040
Things at Once is is a dream 
that I will not ever get to 

493
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,280
accomplish. 
Yeah, I that that must be part 

494
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:23,160
of it. 
I don't seem to suffer from that

495
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,400
sort of issue of attention 
focus. 

496
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,080
It's just, you know, I do a 
thing and I do it and then I 

497
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,160
move on to the next thing. 
Seems to work pretty well for 

498
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:32,600
me. 
Must be nice, man. 

499
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,160
Even it's, it's definitely one 
of those things where I'm like, 

500
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,560
I should brush my teeth. 
All right, I'm going to yell at 

501
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,840
myself in my head for 10 minutes
about how I should go brush my 

502
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:44,040
teeth now, you know, But no, 
it's it's great, you know, and 

503
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,600
and one of the things you said, 
I don't remember this was pre 

504
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,920
stream or or not, but not 
letting projects balloon you. 

505
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,280
You're very obviously hyper 
focused in like the things that 

506
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,600
you want to get done and then 
actually getting them done for 

507
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,720
the people listening that are 
fulfilling kickstarters and 

508
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,040
stuff like that. 
Like what? 

509
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,280
Like specifically in actually 
getting the project fulfilled 

510
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,920
and stuff like how do you make 
it where you're able to, once 

511
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,960
it's written and art is 
everything, get it produced and 

512
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,000
sent out in then the expedient 
way that you do. 

513
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,600
I think so. 
I've found finding the people to

514
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,880
actually make the stuff is it 
was a big step. 

515
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,840
So you know for my first up is 
printing with Nick Sam, right? 

516
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,240
Easy peasy. 
You put it in, you wait six 

517
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,400
weeks, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, who 
knows? 

518
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,080
You keep getting emails pushing 
back your date and so eventually

519
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,200
it shows up and you're done. 
So you know that works great at 

520
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,880
bigger scales. 
It doesn't. 

521
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,280
You know the numbers aren't as 
good when you're trying to print

522
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,000
a 500 or 1000 of something. 
You can get better numbers if 

523
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,280
you go somewhere else. 
So it was finding those other 

524
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,440
places I could go to print 
things was a big step. 

525
00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,560
So like for in ruins was my was 
a dungeon building game that I 

526
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:05,920
did last year in that for Z 
month and I got that printed at 

527
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,520
this place in Poland and they 
had it on my doorstep within two

528
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,960
weeks, like faster than mix 
them. 

529
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,600
Ever had 1000 copies? 
Perfect parent. 

530
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,760
And it's just like, OK, now it's
time to ship these. 

531
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,760
And so like we had those out the
door by May, you know, I ended 

532
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,120
up I spend most of my time 
waiting on backer, the backer 

533
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,880
kit survey thing to like do wait
the two day holding period for 

534
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,960
each step. 
And so that was the big thing. 

535
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,600
And also I've always I've tried 
to focus on just making the 

536
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,200
book, you know, with with 
Baron's grip. 

537
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,480
I was able because the printer I
was working with wasn't China, 

538
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,960
but they were able to like add 
in those asset packs. 

539
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,120
So there's like packs of maps 
and things in there and the big 

540
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:46,520
map poster. 
So he was able to get all in one

541
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,000
place. 
It's like I put in the order 

542
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,800
with them, they shipped to me, 
it's done. 

543
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,800
A lot of you know, I see people 
assembling bundles by hand of 

544
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,360
things that are printed from 
different places and it's like 

545
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,600
there's every different place 
you're bringing coming from, 

546
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,560
there's a delays that could pop 
up there. 

547
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,400
So I think those are the big 
things is really limiting the 

548
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,360
number of physical things you're
putting you're producing and 

549
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:12,280
then trying to reduce the number
of touch points for them. 

550
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,720
Have you ever? 
I'd like that temptation to be 

551
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,560
like, but, you know, a box that 
would be nice and some dice 

552
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,080
would be nice and some cards 
would be nice and like. 

553
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,920
So absolutely, that was Liminal 
Grimoire. 

554
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,240
So that was my box set thing 
from last year, which I actually

555
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,680
had that print. 
So getting finding some place to

556
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,440
make that was a huge pain 
because I started by wanting to 

557
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,520
do what cyber plus punk 
augmented, right? 

558
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,080
Like the whole fold out thing 
which you've talked about. 

559
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,400
I know you your black, your 
background's blurred, but yeah, 

560
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:46,680
I see some yellow up there. 
It could be. 

561
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,640
But yeah, you guys have talked 
about that a lot. 

562
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,200
And I saw that and I'm like, I 
want to make this and making 

563
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,120
that is not easy. 
Like that's a bunch of custom 

564
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,120
die cutting and that can get 
really expensive. 

565
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,880
So then I was like, I'll just 
put it in a box because I just, 

566
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,040
I want to make a bunch of 
pamphlets. 

567
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,840
I like writing. 
I was into writing pamphlets at 

568
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,720
that time and I'm like, we'll 
just put it in a box and just 

569
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,800
finding something to make like a
board game style box. 

570
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,720
Not easy printing it in America,
they would have been like 

571
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,520
literally an empty box was going
to cost me like 9 to $10 to 

572
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,120
create. 
And I'm like, well, that doesn't

573
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,680
work. 
So I ended up getting it printed

574
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,960
by a a company that specializes 
in tarot cards. 

575
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,720
So they make like custom, custom
sized card boxes. 

576
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,080
So that's why that box is not 
like the thin stuff that you 

577
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,240
expect from a board game. 
It's like really thick cardboard

578
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,160
because it's supposed to be. 
It's a deck box that just 

579
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,920
happens to have a bunch of 
pamphlets in it. 

580
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,360
So that was like, and but that 
was when I'm like, all right, 

581
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,360
I've got a box already. 
Let's just throw some, let's 

582
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,840
throw some dice in there. 
And the thing that stopped me is

583
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,840
because when I was producing, 
that was right when tariffs 

584
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,680
became a thing. 
And all of a sudden it's like I 

585
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,760
go for my box of printed 
pamphlets, which is usually 

586
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,920
going to be 0% just because it's
just printed material. 

587
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,560
That's usually 0% tariff. 
Even with when tariffs were 

588
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,960
crazy, it was still 0 rated. 
If I put dice in there, all of a

589
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,760
sudden I've got a board game and
that's I'm not doing that. 

590
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,120
So that that was what scared me 
away from getting a little bit 

591
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,320
more physical on that particular
product. 

592
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,960
We will say it's a nice fucking 
box, I pointed. 

593
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,280
Because I can see it right 
there. 

594
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,080
I'm not going to stand up. 
It's a. 

595
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,280
It's a great pamphlet box 
though, like it is very. 

596
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,520
It is thick as fuck. 
Like it's a nice box. 

597
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,280
Yeah, like you could throw that 
in your backpack and you don't 

598
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,000
have to worry about it at all. 
It's like it's bulletproof. 

599
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,520
So yeah, it's a it is a thick 
box for sure. 

600
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,960
It is more than I needed, but 
that's fine. 

601
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,720
That was like, they were like, 
yeah, we can make this and the 

602
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,280
price was right and I'm like 
done do it and they could print 

603
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,800
it and put it. 
As someone who's backed damn 

604
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,280
near 800, probably more than 800
crowdfunds at this point, please

605
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,600
for the love of God, if for 
everyone out there, this is not 

606
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,840
just you don't put dice in 
anything. 

607
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,880
There's no one in this space 
that doesn't own a million dice.

608
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,960
And the cost and time of getting
and putting dice into something 

609
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,360
is way more than someone just 
being like, oh I'll use the 

610
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,560
other thousand dice that I have,
but what if I? 

611
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,000
Want the D6 is, but what if I 
wanted my logo on the six of the

612
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,600
D6? 
You know what that's for? 

613
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,200
You know, what that's for is 
your shop after the crowdfund so

614
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,080
that you can just send one at a 
time and not have to like mass 

615
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,000
produce 1000 of them. 
Hope it all goes out. 

616
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:29,320
But crowdfunding months is going
to be our segue into what we're 

617
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,080
actually talking about today. 
I mean, just getting right in. 

618
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,600
How do you feel about them? 
What are your thoughts on 

619
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,400
months? 
So as we have already covered, I

620
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,240
like writing adventures and I 
have and I've done some 

621
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,160
crowdfunding. 
And when I crowdfund for an 

622
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:49,400
adventure, I need to find the 
people that play that game and 

623
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:54,320
that is not always easy to do. 
If I, I mean honestly, if I was 

624
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,720
just doing this for money, I'd 
be writing for 5th edition or 

625
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,320
maybe Shadow Dark if I wanted to
stay indie, but I'm never going 

626
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,400
to do that. 
I have no interest in Shadow 

627
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,760
Dark. 
But anyway, if I'm not using one

628
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,400
of the buzzwords like finding 
the people that play the game to

629
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,440
then go back, the crowdfunding 
is hard. 

630
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,240
I mean, I found out I just did a
liminal horror one in February 

631
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,760
for UHF Contact and like it did,
it did fine. 

632
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,720
It certainly funded no problem. 
That book is getting printed 

633
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,240
great, but it's not like doing 
it. 

634
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,000
It wasn't like bonkers money, 
right? 

635
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:34,240
The months the I've got Gavin 
Norman of OSE bringing his 

636
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,800
audience back back in November 
for Master Month. 

637
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,520
We've got Games Omnivorous 
bringing their audience with 

638
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,600
their product that obviously 
everybody is there for. 

639
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,000
But then they're like, hey, 
we've got all these cool people 

640
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,080
making cool stuff, maybe you 
should check them out too. 

641
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,840
And that makes crowdfunding an 
adventure work. 

642
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,120
Crowdfunding an adventure out 
without that support from the 

643
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,680
game developer is really hard. 
I found out when I did a Morc 

644
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,960
Borg 1-2 years ago Foul, which 
again did great. 

645
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,960
It funded. 
I've sold a bunch of it since 

646
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,960
then in distro and stuff. 
But like the actual crowdfunding

647
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,320
had like 120 backers, which is 
enough to print the book. 

648
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,680
But it's not like, you know, 
it's not all. 

649
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,040
It's not like crazy. 
It's not like nobody's like 

650
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,360
writing A blog post about my 
Kickstarter, right? 

651
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,880
So anyway, so I do like the 
months and I probably since the 

652
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,240
the way this last year's gone, 
I'm probably not going to be 

653
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,320
crowdfunding adventures outside 
of months going forward. 

654
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,360
I feel like in full standalone 
games can still do well in 

655
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,840
crowdfunding, but doing this for
these sort of narrow audiences 

656
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,320
already probably not going to be
doing too much of that anymore, 

657
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,560
which is why this green news 
king that I'm doing, I'm saying 

658
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,040
I'm just going to, I'm going to 
do a pre-order on my web shop 

659
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,520
and be like, Hey, if you 
preorder this, everything else 

660
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,600
you buy is 25% off or something.
You're still better than I get 

661
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,520
if my distributor sells it. 
So that's probably how I'll go 

662
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,000
with the adventures moving 
forward. 

663
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,320
It's very reasonable for 
adventure riding because I know 

664
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,080
that you know what, prior to two
months, part of backer kit 

665
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,040
really being like we need to 
compete with Kickstarter. 

666
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:14,280
It was really just Zen month, 
Zenquest specifically that 

667
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,960
people would save up like all 
year to be like, this is when 

668
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,159
I'm going to drop this thing 
because there's going to be for 

669
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:21,880
the exact same reason that 
people look at the months people

670
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,320
would do Zenquest for. 
This is when I know eyes will be

671
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,800
in this space. 
So for for major, it does make a

672
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,360
lot of sense. 
I think my concern slash 

673
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,639
critique, I guess with months is
1 one of the first big ones was 

674
00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:39,159
mothership month. 
I think that might have been you

675
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:41,120
know, outside of like Pocket 
Topia and Xenotopia and stuff. 

676
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,080
The first like themed month was 
mothership month. 

677
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:48,960
Mothership month 1 still hasn't 
fulfilled fulfilled and we've 

678
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,199
already had mothership month 
two. 

679
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,320
I will say we've already got 
your master in a project and 

680
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,960
there are a couple other on are 
on the board. 

681
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,960
So those are getting kind of 
quicker through through that 

682
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,680
month. 
But I think the issue with like 

683
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,680
yearly months, especially for 
not necessarily everyone under 

684
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,080
the primary person, right, not 
mouse writer, not Mothership, 

685
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,360
not OSE can probably distribute 
like pretty quickly because 

686
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,120
their projects are generally for
the most part going to be a 

687
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,080
little bit smaller. 
But having a yearly month from 

688
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,520
big, you know, people like OSE, 
Mothership, stuff like that, 

689
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,280
they put a lot bigger, like they
have just more going on a year 

690
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,840
turn around for big projects 
isn't really that big on 

691
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,360
Kickstarter, I'm sorry. 
And crowdfunding in general. 

692
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:38,520
Yeah, sure. 
No, yeah, I while I have not had

693
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,320
to produce like already, you 
know the demonic grimoire, 

694
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:47,720
right, the OSC flagship products
for this for OSC month like 

695
00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:51,160
they've already got whatever it 
is over 1000, right backers 

696
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,320
Yeah, it's like over. $40 
million already, yeah. 

697
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,760
Yeah, I can tell. 
You right now it is. 3000 

698
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,280
backers, yeah, they just hit 
$250,000, Three thousand 

699
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,920
backers, so I've never had to 
produce something for 3000 

700
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,280
backers. 
So presumably they're going to 

701
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,720
be printing 5 to 10,000 copies 
like I've never had to make. 

702
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:15,080
I have no idea what that takes. 
But even if that book is done, 

703
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,320
which I know it's very close, 
we've got we as creators for the

704
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:24,440
month have been getting the 
drafts of the Demonic Grimoire 

705
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,720
as part of, Hey, let's make sure
all of our stuff is sort of 

706
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,280
working from the same starting 
point. 

707
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,000
So we all get access to the 
Beastie area in there. 

708
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,000
We all get access to the spells 
in there to the demon Lords and 

709
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,880
stuff. 
So that when I write something 

710
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,360
about the Iron Labyrinth and 
somebody else writes, which is 

711
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,760
one of these Hells connected to 
one of these new, not new demon 

712
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,120
Lords, one of the demon Lords in
the book and somebody else 

713
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:49,280
writes something about the iron 
Labyrinth. 

714
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,440
We're we're not going to be 
directly disagreeing with what 

715
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,120
we with this, they've 
established some more. 

716
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,160
But so I know that book is 
almost done, but if you got to 

717
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,640
make 10,000 of them, that's 
going to take time. 

718
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:03,200
And I, I have no idea how much 
time, but I mean, they're 

719
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,360
planning for, they're planning 
to fulfill. 

720
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,920
I don't know if I'm supposed to 
say it's not. 

721
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,400
It's not that bad as far as time
goes. 

722
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,600
But yeah, it's, it's still a 
lot. 

723
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,960
It's also yeah, yeah, they came 
in with it almost done, which 

724
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,600
helps. 
Like which everyone should do 

725
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:20,960
with all of their crowdfunding, 
all the. 

726
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,320
Time. 
Please for the love of God like 

727
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,760
have 90 plus percent done before
you get to crowdfunding and 

728
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,560
don't do too many stretch goals.
My only other like little 

729
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,520
concern too is just if every 
month becomes a month for 

730
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,680
something, it's going to make it
hard for the things not in that 

731
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,280
month to get eyes just in the 
same way it is when it's not 

732
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,560
right. 
So anyone dropping stuff right 

733
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,320
now for like Merkborg during OSE
month, unless it's also demon 

734
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,760
themed is going to like people 
are already spending their money

735
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,200
on the month. 
So like, I think it's really, I 

736
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,640
think it's interesting, I think 
it's good. 

737
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,000
I think it has some drawbacks. 
I hope it doesn't marvelize the 

738
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,000
space a little bit. 
You know what I mean? 

739
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,600
I hope it doesn't like burn 
people out so much on the thing 

740
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,840
like having like, Oh no, we have
another month. 

741
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,720
I already spent all my money in 
OSC month, but next month is 

742
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:01,960
master month and the next month 
is well, how am I going to buy 

743
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,160
all this stuff? 
They that that I'm hoping it 

744
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,400
doesn't burn people out on 
months and that they just like, 

745
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:09,640
chill out. 
At least we have one that 

746
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,560
doesn't start with M Like that's
what's important is we got one 

747
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,800
that is an O and that's that's 
great. 

748
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,280
But again, Speaking of the 
month, Speaking of OSC month, 

749
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,800
we're talking about Out of the 
Iron Labyrinth finally. 

750
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,600
That is the adventure you're 
writing for today. 

751
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,160
I have got to read a draft of 
it. 

752
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,280
I really like it. 
And you know how I feel about 

753
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,920
adventures I do. 
So yeah. 

754
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:34,200
So tell us, tell us a little bit
about Out of the Iron Labyrinth.

755
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,360
I want to show that this nice 
cover art to start. 

756
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,080
So what what? 
What is Out of the Iron 

757
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,200
Labyrinth? 
So it is a hell escape 

758
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,920
adventure. 
So the Iron Labyrinth is one of 

759
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,760
the lower planes of well, 
Carceras is the name of the 

760
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:54,400
plane and the Iron Labyrinth is 
the nickname for it, ruled by 

761
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,720
the demon Lord Beth Gore. 
And so this is like the prison 

762
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:02,440
hell, which is very much with, 
you know, sort of like one 

763
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,920
classical view of hell is people
are there being tortured all the

764
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,560
time. 
That's what's what this hell is 

765
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,080
versus there's a lot of other 
Hells in the demonic room war, 

766
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,080
but this is really the one 
that's it's called a prison 

767
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:15,480
hell. 
And what I like about that is 

768
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,840
because it's, it's an indoor 
space, which is much easier to 

769
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,920
draw as far as a map goes. 
I can draw a dungeon and it 

770
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,480
makes sense because we're in an 
inside sort of, you know, rooms,

771
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,680
cells, prison cells, torture 
chambers, all that kind of 

772
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,760
stuff. 
And so the idea from the 

773
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,360
adventure is you are one 
character. 

774
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:38,920
So it is a adventure for one 
player character and they end up

775
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,600
getting sent to hell. 
Now this is not a a post mortem 

776
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:45,800
like oh you wake up, you died 
and you wake up in hell. 

777
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,880
This is like you got kidnapped 
by a cult and thrown into a 

778
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,080
portal to hell as a sacrifice. 
Or you got you were doing some 

779
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,520
magic and the spell went wrong. 
There's one spell in particular 

780
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,120
through the looking glass where 
if you fail to save at the end 

781
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,720
of it, you get sent to a random 
place in like a different plane.

782
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,920
Like Bam, now you're in hell and
the idea is your one player 

783
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,440
character now has to figure out 
how they're going to get. 

784
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,360
Back to the material playing. 
That is the, the, the purpose it

785
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,880
can be played. 
I'm writing it mainly for 

786
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,520
one-on-one play, so one player, 
one GM. 

787
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,680
And the idea being you've got 
game night and only one player 

788
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,800
can show up. 
And it's like, all right, your 

789
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,640
character got kidnapped while 
you were gone and now you're 

790
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:28,960
here. 
We'll, we'll play in hell 

791
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,200
tonight. 
So that kind of a thing. 

792
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,800
And so it all can also be played
solo. 

793
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,480
So I'm putting some basic solo 
tools, a gameplay loop to help 

794
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:38,960
us all play in some Oracle 
tables. 

795
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,800
Very similar to what I've done 
for other systems before, but it

796
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,880
should be enough to get somebody
started to try playing this 

797
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,160
solo, no? 
Keep going. 

798
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:51,840
Go ahead, I. 
Was going I was going to keep 

799
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,440
talking about. 
No, please keep talking about 

800
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:55,200
the thing. 
Keep going. 

801
00:40:55,960 --> 00:41:00,320
OK, and so the so prison hell it
hell infinite essentially, 

802
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:01,840
right? 
Like it's a big space, it goes 

803
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,000
on forever. 
There's an unlimited number of 

804
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,920
souls in hell. 
And part of the what the demonic

805
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,880
grimoire says about this place 
is you can't die here. 

806
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,240
That's part of the torture is 
this people are essentially 

807
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:16,920
killed over and over and then 
they're in her for 24 hours and 

808
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,480
they wake back up. 
And so it actually worked really

809
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,000
well because for A1 player 
character adventure, like you 

810
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,680
could, you could have a bad 
encounter in your first room and

811
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:27,800
you're dead. 
It's like, oh, we're just, we're

812
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:28,960
done. 
It's like, well, no, we're not 

813
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,120
done. 
You've got, you're going to wake

814
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:35,160
up in 24 hours. 
And so I part of the game design

815
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,800
challenge of that as well. 
If death isn't scary, what's our

816
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,440
motivation? 
Like how do we keep, how do we 

817
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,520
keep some stress on the player? 
How, how do we make them care? 

818
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,360
And So what we right now what it
is, is we've got sort of just AD

819
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,480
20 roll. 
And so for the UTS, keep a tally

820
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,680
of every time that you're 
reduced TO0HP. 

821
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,280
And so, and every time you wake 
up, you roll AD 20. 

822
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,360
And if that number is below the 
number of times you've died, you

823
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,960
are now a damned soul. 
So I sort of, I make a 

824
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,160
distinction there that the 
damned souls are people that 

825
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,280
have died and brought to hell 
versus free souls, which are 

826
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,960
people that have not died but 
haven't found themselves on this

827
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,360
plane anyway. 
And so you go in as a free soul.

828
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,560
And if you ever become a damned 
soul, then that's the end. 

829
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,840
That's where you end. 
But you can hopefully die 

830
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:28,280
several times before that. 
A bad that bad D20 role dams you

831
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:33,360
for eternity. 
I when I read that, I fucking 

832
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,200
loved it. 
I almost messaged you when I was

833
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,400
reading it and was just like, 
dude, this is so good because 

834
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:42,440
it's so simple, but it's so 
clever because like AD 20 roll 

835
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,680
is, I mean, there's a 5% chance 
to roll anything, right. 

836
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,800
But your odds of rolling under 2
under 3, like letting you die a 

837
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,960
couple of times, the fact that 
again, you, you can't die, but 

838
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,320
now there is. 
But you, you can, there's a 

839
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,680
small chance. 
So you, like, it's not enough 

840
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,480
that you might not do something 
risky early on, like your life's

841
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,040
become resource management, 
which innately gives you a sense

842
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:10,560
of like stress and, and it's 
something to work against, 

843
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:11,720
right? 
Or, or work with. 

844
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:17,040
And that is such a clever, 
simple, easy way to make death 

845
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,160
important in a place where you 
can't die because you can die. 

846
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,840
But like, it, it, it was, it's 
so smart. 

847
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,480
It's so clever. 
I really, really like that a 

848
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,240
lot. 
Yeah, I'm glad. 

849
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:27,960
Yeah, it was, that was like it 
was a, you know what we were 

850
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,960
talking earlier about designing 
games and systems versus 

851
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,280
designing adventures. 
And that sort of gives you an 

852
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,000
idea of that every adventure is 
also has systems. 

853
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,920
Like it's very infrequent that I
or probably anybody writes an 

854
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,120
adventure that relies 100% on 
systems presented in the rule 

855
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,480
book for that game. 
You know, you always are adding,

856
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,240
you know, adding a certain type 
of clock that works in because 

857
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:52,280
that's the way your dungeon 
works. 

858
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,520
Or you add a rule for this type 
of potion because you've got a 

859
00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:57,120
dungeon that's got this weird 
potion. 

860
00:43:57,240 --> 00:43:59,080
So as you're always adding 
little rules. 

861
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,840
And so this was one that felt 
like, what's the challenge of 

862
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,160
being in a place where you can't
die? 

863
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,200
How do we make it interest? 
How do we make that still 

864
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,640
interesting? 
And so we sort of, that's what 

865
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,280
we went with. 
And I think, I think it works. 

866
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,160
I think, you know, because the 
first step is free because you 

867
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,640
can't roll under A1. 
So you die once and you got to 

868
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,560
roll under. 
And so it's just going to sort 

869
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:21,200
of slowly and also works with 
the, the save mechanic in OSC 

870
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,880
because you want to meet or beat
your, your, your save. 

871
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,040
So yours is called a death save,
although it's not a, you're not 

872
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,560
saving versus death, but it's a,
it's a different kind of thing. 

873
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,840
But so I think it works and I 
think it'll like you said, you 

874
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,080
know, you can be, you can be a 
little risky and you can 

875
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,640
actually dying is a way to get 
into a different get it, get 

876
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,880
some places because you die in 
one place. 

877
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,920
And then when you by the time 
you wake up, you've been taken 

878
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,680
somewhere else and like, maybe 
you just need to get out of the 

879
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,400
place. 
Like I'll just die and then 

880
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,080
they'll take me away. 
And now I'm not in this room 

881
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,080
anymore. 
So that's all things that people

882
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,520
can start playing with. 
Yeah, and it's, it feels very 

883
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,240
much, at least from what I've 
read, what you said is, is 

884
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,200
pretty, pretty text far down. 
It's it's it is how I like 

885
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,560
adventures, which clearly my 
opinion is the one that matters 

886
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,640
to everyone, right. 
Like, but it is it feels very 

887
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,280
much like I don't give too much 
away. 

888
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,240
So tell me to shut up if I'm 
giving too much away, but it 

889
00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:11,360
feels very much like here's a 
place, here's some like cool 

890
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,440
spots, Here's some interesting 
like creatures and PCs bad guys,

891
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:20,680
whatever. 
Now go Like there's no there's 

892
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,040
it's definitely not railroadie. 
There's no real through line 

893
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,880
necessarily for how it feels 
like the GM is being told for 

894
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,720
the players to do. 
It doesn't feel like there's 

895
00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:32,760
this conclusion that you're 
suddenly going to be like, this 

896
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,360
is how it will end and stuff 
like that. 

897
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,320
Like it, It feels very much more
like an adventure location with 

898
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,400
some cool stuff and cool moments
in it, which which I find again,

899
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,680
how I how I want to run 
adventures because the players 

900
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,880
are always going to tell a 
better story than you know, for 

901
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,480
your table than anyone can 
write. 

902
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,000
So like I, I really enjoyed 
that, that it definitely feels 

903
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,640
like you are in cursares, not 
being told how to be in 

904
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,240
cursares. 
Yeah. 

905
00:45:56,240 --> 00:45:58,840
And so the again, because it's 
an infinite space, I had to 

906
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,320
limit because I don't want to, I
can't draw an infinite space, 

907
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:02,680
right. 
So I wanted to be like, hey, I 

908
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,920
want to make 30 rooms. 
And this is where we're talking 

909
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,840
about ballooning. 
In my initial, my initial plan 

910
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,800
was there was a blog post about,
Oh, I don't even know what they 

911
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:18,040
called it a flux crawl or 
something recently where is an 

912
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,080
idea of exploring a same, a 
space that's just infinitely 

913
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:22,840
samey. 
So it was like for a way to run 

914
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,240
mazes or labyrinths or whatever,
which would have actually worked

915
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:27,400
really well here. 
And I was like, all right, so 

916
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,160
we'll do a this like flux crawl 
where you have to like explore 

917
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,120
and map the space. 
And then you need like 6 points 

918
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,080
of interest. 
And then, and then you need like

919
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,040
these four other more important 
points of interest. 

920
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:38,840
And I'm like, and we're going to
do that on every level of the 

921
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,760
five levels of Carcera. 
So you're going to come in at 

922
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,240
the bottom of and you got to 
work your way up. 

923
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,920
And I'm like, and all of a 
sudden I'm running 60 points of 

924
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,000
interest and I'm like, each of 
these is going to get a spread 

925
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,480
like, wait, this is a big book. 
I don't want to do a big, I 

926
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,520
don't want to do a big book like
this right now. 

927
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,240
And So what we did was we're 
like, all right, let's just make

928
00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:55,760
a dungeon and we'll stick it in 
Carceras. 

929
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,800
And this is where we get the 
court of Ilfracs. 

930
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,800
So I'm like, all right, so we'll
say that there's this that's a 

931
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,600
it's a dragon because I like 
Dragons in my dungeons and 

932
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,200
Dragons as much as I can get 
them in there. 

933
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,800
So like we got a dragon and he 
rules this tiny little corner of

934
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,440
the infinite labyrinth. 
Like this is his place and these

935
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,120
souls are his and that's where 
he gets its power. 

936
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,760
And he's all underneath Beth 
Gore, the demon Lord, but he's 

937
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,440
like a little Lieutenant guy and
it's like, all right, he's got 

938
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:22,880
his own Lieutenant. 
And so that's where we got an 

939
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,640
Aaron, yes, Nya Laura, and she 
wants to get rid of the dragon 

940
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,480
because he's not a demon. 
And so we've got so just setting

941
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,960
up tension between the these 
NPCS and then for the way the 

942
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:35,520
adventure starts, because we 
said, oh, it doesn't matter how 

943
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,320
your character gets there. 
Like maybe they got kidnapped, 

944
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,880
maybe they happened to fall 
through a portal, maybe they an 

945
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,080
errant spell. 
And you can roll. 

946
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,280
There's I give suggestions for 
literally which room to start in

947
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,360
or you can roll AD 30 and 
literally drop into any room of 

948
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,480
this dungeon. 
And now you have to go and the, 

949
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,840
the NPC you happen to meet first
might end up being the one that 

950
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,440
you ally with and are trying to 
help achieve their ends. 

951
00:47:58,440 --> 00:47:59,520
Because that's one way to get 
out. 

952
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,840
Like, and who knows, maybe the 
first person you meet kills you 

953
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:03,960
and then you wake up somewhere 
else. 

954
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,160
And then now you have to try to 
find somebody else that's going 

955
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,360
to help you towards your, your, 
your goal of escaping. 

956
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,040
Or maybe you don't want to 
escape. 

957
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:12,960
Maybe you just want to. 
Maybe you're going to kill the 

958
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,360
dragon and become the new demon 
Lord. 

959
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,920
Like, whatever, whatever you 
want to do. 

960
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,640
Yeah, I, I really like that. 
And I like that there's also the

961
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,040
distinction you have between 
like the free souls and the 

962
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,720
damsels and then the fact that 
they're, you might not be the 

963
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:29,680
only free soul down there, which
is interesting because they're 

964
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,240
going to be kind of working 
under the same like rules you 

965
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:35,840
are compared to the damsels. 
But also if you do happen to 

966
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,800
like accidentally die, like 
there's other free souls in 

967
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,400
there that you could just be 
like, well, I'm not quite done 

968
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,520
here yet. 
Like I'm just going to now, I'm 

969
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,440
going to be this other guy. 
Yeah, especially if you've like 

970
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,480
allied with them already and 
then you end up being dead. 

971
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,320
It's like, well, I already know 
that person's goals. 

972
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:52,960
I know why they're here. 
I know what they're trying to 

973
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,840
get towards, so I'll just be 
them now. 

974
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,200
And so you and you can obviously
do that. 

975
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:57,680
There's step blocks that you can
grab. 

976
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,920
You know this for those other, 
there's a two or three of them 

977
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,000
there. 
You could be like, oh, I'll just

978
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,960
be them now. 
And that's certainly an option 

979
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:10,160
for you. 
And as far as the actual the 

980
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:14,840
book, the pledge, like what can 
people get from you for this? 

981
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,840
All right, so I did for this 
what I've done for I think every

982
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:21,800
crowdfunder, which is I've got 3
tiers. 

983
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,440
You get APDF, which is you get 
everything that we end up making

984
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,680
in digital form. 
And if you want to go and print 

985
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,400
the the big poster map, go and 
print the big poster map. 

986
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,960
It's all it's on you. 
Then the middle tier is you get 

987
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,320
just the book and you still get 
access to all the digital stuff.

988
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:42,240
So everything that we make Jamie
Douglas by artist who's amazing 

989
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:46,760
and editor because he also knows
the stuff, he's everything that 

990
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,920
we put together for this. 
You get it all digitally and you

991
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,920
get the book and you can go with
that where how you like or the 

992
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,240
top tier is everything printed. 
So that's sort of the idea of I 

993
00:49:56,240 --> 00:49:59,720
print out everything that I I 
would want at the table to play 

994
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:02,000
this. 
I get it professionally printed 

995
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:03,880
and then you get that. 
So that's like the bundle. 

996
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,520
So the bundle for this we're 
going to do because we really 

997
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,840
liked the A3 size map that we 
did for the Baron's Grip, like 

998
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,160
full poster size. 
And then it comes folded down to

999
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:15,520
A5 so it all fits in one 
package. 

1000
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,440
We're going to do an A3 map with
all three levels of the dungeon 

1001
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:24,520
because it is solo a bowl. 
So, you know, seeing the map of 

1002
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,400
the dungeon doesn't ruin it 
because you just have to think 

1003
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,360
about how you're playing the 
game and separating character 

1004
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,560
knowledge from player knowledge.
That's a little, leave a little 

1005
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,480
bit of that on the player to 
manage. 

1006
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,480
And I think there's one like 
room that's kind of secret that 

1007
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,560
we'll probably just have on the 
map and you, you just have to 

1008
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:41,800
realize, oh, I don't know where 
that is. 

1009
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,320
But anyway, so we'll do a, we're
going to do a full A3 print with

1010
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,360
all three levels of the dungeon 
and then some tables on it. 

1011
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:54,560
And then also a couple A5 prints
of like the, the Oracle tables 

1012
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,520
for the solo rules. 
And we're talking about 

1013
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,280
potentially Jamie might drop 
some little paper fold minis. 

1014
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,000
So you can have those on your 
poster if you want, which I've 

1015
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:06,960
not done before, but I see lots 
of people doing those. 

1016
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,040
So those aren't too hard to put 
together and print out. 

1017
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:12,240
You just have to cut them out 
and fold them at home. 

1018
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,680
And it's all extremely 
reasonably priced. 

1019
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,400
I mean, PDF $8, Zine $18.00 and 
then physical bundle only 

1020
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,720
$25.00. 
So like it kind of makes sense 

1021
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:24,280
to just go for the physical 
bundle. 

1022
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,400
Did you do you? 
Is this like the medium coke 

1023
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,680
kind of thing at McDonald's 
where you're like if you're 

1024
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,120
already doing 18 you might as 
well just get like the large 

1025
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:33,200
coke or or? 
What's that? 

1026
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,320
It was? 
It wasn't that. 

1027
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:39,240
So honestly, the bundle was 
added yesterday morning about an

1028
00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:41,120
hour before we started. 
I started. 

1029
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,120
I only had the PDF in the book 
and it's just, you know, it's 

1030
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,080
just, it's just one adventure, 
right? 

1031
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,400
Like I, I'm trying and it's, you
know, I'm not doing anything 

1032
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,160
crazy with the printing. 
This isn't Rhizograph. 

1033
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,000
So it's like, I don't want to 
charge you $30.00 for a venture 

1034
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,640
that you're going to play for 
two or three sessions, right? 

1035
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,960
So it's like, OK, 18 bucks makes
sense. 

1036
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,160
We're going to get printed as a 
Zine. 

1037
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,280
Get it printed as a Zine. 18 
dollars could be the venture. 

1038
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,680
That's fine. 
And then I was thinking about 

1039
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,760
what could go into the bundle 
and it's like, all right, we'll 

1040
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,480
do a big poster. 
I can get that printed for, you 

1041
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,160
know, this much and a couple 
other things like, all right, so

1042
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,360
just a few bucks more. 25 is a 
nice round Number. 

1043
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,880
I like that. 
Yeah, I mean, the, the maps and 

1044
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,800
the posters and things aren't 
things they won't go into retail

1045
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,800
later. 
So I don't need to really worry 

1046
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,840
about being like efficiently 
pricing those first of how we 

1047
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,320
think about pricing books for 
retail when I'm going to be 

1048
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:32,960
selling wholesale and yadda, 
yadda. 

1049
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:37,400
But but yeah, I like 25 is a 
nice round Number like that and 

1050
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,160
yeah, majority of backers have 
been going with that one, so I'm

1051
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:41,720
glad I added it. 
Yeah. 

1052
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,520
But so asset pack is not just a 
map. 

1053
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,240
So what are the other things 
inside that Besides you said 

1054
00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:51,040
maybe the things because I see 
see some other stuff on this 

1055
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,080
picture. 
Oh yeah, the it's going to be 

1056
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:57,640
the Oracle tables from the from 
the solo section. 

1057
00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:02,280
Oh, in an art print like an A5? 
Nice print of the cover art 

1058
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,040
without the words, without my 
name on it. 

1059
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,720
I liked it some, I know people 
like art prints, so I tend to 

1060
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:10,720
throw those in because I got the
art, I love the art. 

1061
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:13,520
So I want to put that out there 
so people can see it. 

1062
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,360
And then that's, and I showed 
the Oracle tables. 

1063
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,360
And then the other one will be 
potentially the paper full of 

1064
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,720
minis. 
So we'll, we're probably going 

1065
00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:23,680
to end up do that, but it's like
one of those sort of like a, a 

1066
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:25,960
post hoc stretch goal at the 
end. 

1067
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:27,720
I'll be like, Oh yeah, we also 
did this. 

1068
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,600
So I don't like doing stretch 
goals anymore for the whole 

1069
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,560
bloat thing. 
It's like this is the thing. 

1070
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:36,440
I've already written the thing. 
Maybe we'll throw in some 

1071
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,200
stickers too. 
But just because we're again, 

1072
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,000
we're going to have cool art. 
So it's fun that I some people 

1073
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,000
like stickers. 
I like stickers sometimes, but I

1074
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,880
don't think it's enough that 
anybody, it's not going to make 

1075
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,880
somebody pledge or not. 
So it's not like a, the idea of 

1076
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:49,640
a stretch goal like convincing 
people to pledge. 

1077
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:51,360
Nobody cares that much about 
stickers. 

1078
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:52,880
So we'll just, we'll just make 
them anyway. 

1079
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:57,000
Yeah, I get, I get big projects 
wanting to do like super big 

1080
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,760
stretch goals and stuff to get 
that like, oh, just get us to 

1081
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,760
the next tier thing. 
But for small projects, man, 

1082
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,960
like if it's literally just like
my favorite stretch goals are 

1083
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,240
people get paid more and the 
book looks prettier. 

1084
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,000
Like that's what I want. 
Like we'll get to do spot 

1085
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,720
coding, we'll get to do a second
bookmark. 

1086
00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:13,000
We'll get to do those are my 
favorite. 

1087
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:14,120
Like you've already done 
everything. 

1088
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:15,880
We're just making it prettier. 
That's what I want. 

1089
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,640
Which is what Demonic Grimoire 
is doing. 

1090
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,200
They their stretch goals. 
They were the two bookmarks. 

1091
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,680
They're going to do paint the 
edge black, which is great for 

1092
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,520
the demon book. 
And then I can't remember what 

1093
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,760
the other one. 
And then there's an adventure 

1094
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,800
that they'll add in, which is 
great, perfect. 

1095
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:36,480
But yeah, not like, oh, we're 
going to add vehicle rules and 

1096
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,440
that's going to take us an extra
6 months to develop. 

1097
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,200
You know, the worst part about 
all that too, is like, if you 

1098
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,120
already have that idea, just 
fucking do it. 

1099
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,560
Like what are we talking about? 
You know, 'cause people are 

1100
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:48,560
like, oh, I'm so sad I didn't 
get to do that. 

1101
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:50,640
You fucking you probably already
did. 

1102
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,160
It's probably there. 
What the fuck are we doing? 

1103
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,800
Like, come on, come on. 
It's to me that feels like 

1104
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,560
asking for a perception check 
for something. 

1105
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,240
The character needs to have the 
knowledge of you to continue. 

1106
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:02,480
You're just like fucking 
yourself. 

1107
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,200
Like it doesn't make sense. 
Don't ask for the role, just 

1108
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:05,560
give it. 
Yeah. 

1109
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,920
So don't make it a stretch goal.
If you've done it, just get it 

1110
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,560
anyway. 
I think, I think Demonic Remor, 

1111
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,240
they're doing it very well for 
the stretch goals. 

1112
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:14,280
I think they've got a good set 
of things there that are like 

1113
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,040
just quality of life little 
things. 

1114
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,600
It's and it's not going to be, 
there's no develop, there's no, 

1115
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:20,840
that's like nothing. 
Nothing that they are adding is 

1116
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,480
going to delay anything. 
It's just they just check 

1117
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,360
another box when they place the 
order with the printer. 

1118
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,600
So I think that's awesome. 
And but yeah, for my little 

1119
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,160
thing, this is, this is, this is
what you, this is what we've 

1120
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:36,120
got. 
Yeah, it's have they hit all of 

1121
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,680
their stretch? 
No, they have up to up to 

1122
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:42,520
350,000 is, is the final stretch
goal, but they've hit everything

1123
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,920
else to it. 
So I I feel like. 

1124
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:46,800
They had stickers too. 
That's right, they did do 

1125
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,080
stickers. 
But you, so you funded day one 

1126
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,160
$900 funding goal and that made 
me giggle a little bit. 

1127
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,200
I was like, you're going to hit 
$900. 

1128
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,240
Like that's kind of a but 
you're, you're at almost $5000 

1129
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:03,040
on day 2, which is very nice. 
Pretty good. 

1130
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,760
I'm happy with that. 
Yeah, 900. 

1131
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,800
So when I set the number, it's 
literally like, how much did I 

1132
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,760
pay for the cover art? 
How much have is have I agreed 

1133
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:17,320
to pay Jamie for the interior 
art Sometimes. 

1134
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,040
So it's like I think about that,
but that's not, you know, I've 

1135
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:21,640
already paid them. 
So it's like that. 

1136
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,080
I don't need you to I don't need
that from the funding to 

1137
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:25,880
coverage. 
So I usually look at like if I 

1138
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,120
want to print a hundred of 
these, how much is that going to

1139
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:29,920
cost? 
It's like, OK, that I know I'm 

1140
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,520
going to spend some money on 
meta ads because I don't know 

1141
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,560
why I do it, but I, I've got the
account there, I know how to do 

1142
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:36,360
it. 
So I turn those on. 

1143
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:37,360
I don't know if they actually 
help. 

1144
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,080
I don't have the, the brain to 
figure out pixel tracking and 

1145
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,600
stuff. 
And then I, it's like I end up 

1146
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,720
with some number. 
I don't like having over $1000 

1147
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:46,400
because that it takes a long 
time to get to. 

1148
00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:48,760
So it's like I'm going to print,
I'm going to be printing this. 

1149
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,320
This is, I want to get this. 
I want people to see this. 

1150
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:55,640
So yeah, $900, I have no idea 
where I came with that, but that

1151
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,400
number, but I mean, I could have
printed the book for 900. 

1152
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,360
So if we hit 900 and only 900, I
would have made the book so it 

1153
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:03,600
counts. 
There we go. 

1154
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:07,160
And then so over 200 backers, 
what you the 8th Kickstarter? 

1155
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:09,280
What's the highest number of 
backer account you ever had on a

1156
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:14,480
Kickstarter? 
Oh, that or. 

1157
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,560
A crowdfund. 
I hate that Kickstarter is my 

1158
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:18,520
default for crowdfund. 
Yeah, no, I, I know. 

1159
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:20,640
I think it was probably the 
Baron's grip, the mouse rear one

1160
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:25,640
that had 560. 
That was, yeah, that was almost 

1161
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,400
certainly the biggest. 
Before that it would have been 

1162
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:34,640
in Ruins, which was my the 
dungeon building game, which did

1163
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:39,360
really well last year here. 
I've got stats here, backers. 

1164
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:45,640
No, in Ruins at 595. 
So that was more so yeah. 

1165
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,480
So we're, you know, we're doing 
great. 200 is awesome. 

1166
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,440
Almost halfway there on 
literally day 2, like you, you 

1167
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:52,880
hit 200 basically on the first 
day. 

1168
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,760
You got 29 days to go? 
Yeah, but but. 

1169
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,400
Like it's only like the first 
two days and the last two days 

1170
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,840
are like 70 percent, 80% of what
everything in between is just 

1171
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,080
like, like I'll like, I mean, 
this comes from having done a 

1172
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:08,680
bunch of these. 
It's like they'll be days. 

1173
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:10,800
I don't even look. 
I don't even check because it's 

1174
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,280
like, I don't know, I don't need
to see that we went down today 

1175
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:15,920
because that happens. 
It's like a negative day just 

1176
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,080
like ruins it. 
So it's just like, you know, 

1177
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,680
I'll check and I'll check next 
weekend and try to not look at 

1178
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:23,760
it. 
So in a 30 day crowd fund, when 

1179
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:27,360
you fund on day one, like do you
still find yourself like staring

1180
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,640
at the numbers the entire time 
or you just go who? 

1181
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,840
I'm going to ignore it now. 
I try to, I try to do that. 

1182
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:35,880
That's actually, this is usually
when I start writing my next 

1183
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,200
thing. 
It's like, yeah, we funded this.

1184
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,680
Like I'm waiting on, I'm waiting
on art, I'm waiting on editing 

1185
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:43,840
on whatever I'm doing. 
I got to wait till the fund or 

1186
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,200
maybe it's done, but still I 
have to wait till we finish and 

1187
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,160
then get the money. 
So I can't order it yet. 

1188
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:51,280
So yeah, I just start writing 
something else. 

1189
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,400
I can't imagine working on a 
thing until The thing is done. 

1190
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,600
Like I just your brain. 
It's it's good. 

1191
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,120
You got a good brain and I'm 
proud of you and I'm happy for 

1192
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:01,800
you. 
I'm glad that. 

1193
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,480
We. 
Did like 2-3 projects a year is 

1194
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,560
what it seems like. 
If you've done 8 kickstarters in

1195
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,880
in just over 2 years, that's 
literally like no that's like 3 

1196
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:12,000
to 4 kickstarters a year. 
That's. 

1197
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:14,960
Crazy. 
It was 3 in 2024 and 3 in 2025, 

1198
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,760
and this is number 2 for 2026. 
And so I got to think, I don't 

1199
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:24,200
know what I've got 2 potentials 
for later this year, both of 

1200
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:28,200
which are still early in the 
writing, but I think and are 

1201
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:30,560
very different. 
So one's a skirmish game, which 

1202
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,320
I'd love to touch out with you 
about, and the other one is a is

1203
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:37,200
a journaling game. 
Yeah, but part of that you said 

1204
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,080
you've finished a couple times 
in adventure, you're dropping in

1205
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,680
the summer. 
Any any little preview of what's

1206
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:46,360
coming with that? 
Yeah, so that is the green who's

1207
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,040
king. 
So this was actually again, 

1208
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:54,800
inspired by an itch jam called 
the Lean green Zine Jam run by 

1209
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,280
Junk food games in two months 
ago, a month ago, something like

1210
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,440
that. 
And I read that and literally 

1211
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,920
the prompt was green and I'm 
like, I got this. 

1212
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:09,240
And so here I will. 
I'm going to send you the the 

1213
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:15,160
cover art cuz it's by Straggand.
I love scraggin stuff, dude. 

1214
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,560
Like that's a dream. 
Like I have a list of like four 

1215
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:19,880
or five people I would love to 
just have stuff by, and they 

1216
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:21,400
were damn near the top of the 
list. 

1217
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,240
Their stuff is crazy. 
Look. 

1218
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:28,360
At this cover. 
Do you want me to drop this in 

1219
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,000
stream too? 
Yeah, hold on, I can't. 

1220
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:33,280
It's too big, but I'll just 
screenshot. 

1221
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,320
So it's going to be like a 
little less quality, but still 

1222
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:42,360
pretty good. 
Bear with us for a moment 

1223
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:46,960
podcast. 
It's pretty give me one second 

1224
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:51,320
and I will throw this up there 
for for those in in podcast 

1225
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:55,760
land. 
So the Green News King is a it's

1226
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,760
an adventure. 
And so it's literally the prompt

1227
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,560
is green. 
So it started with, it starts 

1228
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:06,120
with there's a, it's not a hex 
crawl, but there's a hex map and

1229
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:08,240
there's an island. 
And so on this island, there 

1230
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,640
used to be a wizard tower. 
And it, when you arrive at the 

1231
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:13,840
coast, that seat looks out into 
the island. 

1232
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,560
The, there's a town on the coast
and the wizard has not been seen

1233
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:21,080
in a long time. 
And so the townspeople, the 

1234
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:24,840
mayor who hates the wizard has 
been like, we're going to tear 

1235
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,040
down his tower and build a 
lighthouse instead. 

1236
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,640
Because since the wizard left, 
the wizard magic used to like 

1237
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,800
protect the island for ships, 
but the wizard left ships are 

1238
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:34,480
crashing into the island now. 
So he's like, we can't have 

1239
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:35,320
that. 
We need a lighthouse. 

1240
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:40,520
And so even though so tearing 
down a wizard's tower is not an 

1241
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,520
EA straightforward proposition. 
The tower doesn't really like 

1242
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,800
that. 
But the players show up and this

1243
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,520
is just happening. 
And So what the players are 

1244
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:50,800
going to get convinced that they
need to go to the island because

1245
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:52,400
there's some things happening on
the island. 

1246
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:59,040
And the idea is the wizard was 
studying oozes and created an 

1247
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,520
ooze. 
And that the green ooze, that 

1248
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,600
green ooze stole a magic item 
that the wizard happened to have

1249
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,360
in his, in his little dungeon 
thing. 

1250
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:08,440
And that gave the ooze 
sentience. 

1251
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:09,840
And then the ooze ate the 
wizard. 

1252
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:13,320
And so that either now the green
ooze came because they've got 

1253
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:18,000
the magic items, a crown, and 
he's doing now ooze evil stuff 

1254
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:21,760
in the dungeon. 
But there is another faction of 

1255
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,760
Pixies who used to own the crown
and they want it back. 

1256
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,480
And so they show up and they're 
trying to get into the tower and

1257
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,400
the townspeople are trying to 
tear the tower down. 

1258
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:31,560
And then once you get in the 
tower, there are oozes all over 

1259
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:33,080
the place that are that want to 
kill you. 

1260
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:35,680
And it's just, yeah, you want 
it. 

1261
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:37,400
You're going to go there. 
You'll probably end up in the 

1262
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,320
dungeon because that's what you 
do. 

1263
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:44,080
But but otherwise it's pretty 
open that for there's a like a 

1264
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,640
few different people reasons why
you might end up in the dungeon.

1265
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:48,720
You maybe you're helping the 
Pixies, maybe you're just 

1266
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:50,880
exploring, maybe you're trying 
to rescue somebody that's 

1267
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:52,880
disappeared. 
So there's a bunch of options, 

1268
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,200
but that's sort of the the idea 
for this adventure. 

1269
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,840
That sounds awesome. 
And again, I love what you're 

1270
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:03,280
doing with adventures. 
It's very much, I don't know, 

1271
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,160
like in the in the review that 
we did talk about, we talked 

1272
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:10,520
about silent paranormal and I 
feel like they're so peak with 

1273
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:14,160
just giving you cool location, 
cool things and a lot of the 

1274
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:16,040
stuff that you're writing, 
especially once I read Iron 

1275
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:18,360
labyrinth is so much in that 
vein. 

1276
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:22,880
And you say you're not you like 
it's not all about dark stuff, 

1277
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,040
but I love the dark stuff and 
the dark stuff you do write is 

1278
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:27,880
so good. 
Green news King it like it feels

1279
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:31,240
so from what you just described,
it feels so. 

1280
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:34,400
I want to say so D&D, you know 
what I mean? 

1281
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,200
Like a goose eats a wizard and 
like it is. 

1282
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:39,320
Like, yeah, it's exactly what? 
You would want, yeah. 

1283
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,760
It is, it is D&D. 
There's no the probably not a 

1284
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:47,280
dragon in there, but yeah, it's 
like it's, it's a, it's AD and D

1285
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:48,760
adventure. 
So I wrote it for Karen. 

1286
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,560
But then actually after 
everything I've been doing for 

1287
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:55,480
out of the Iron Labyrinth, I I 
just yesterday I was finalizing 

1288
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,640
an OSC bestiary for it. 
So there's going to be some 

1289
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,760
handful of pages at the back. 
So it just with the conversions 

1290
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:03,240
for OSC. 
So it'll work for both. 

1291
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,840
So however, you so it was just 
essentially BX stats, right? 

1292
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:09,800
So it can it's, it's, it's one 
of these things like it's, it is

1293
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,440
written for Karen. 
But I'm also throwing in like, 

1294
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,240
hey, if you want to do it in 
OSC, change these few things. 

1295
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,000
This is what those stats are and
that kind of stuff. 

1296
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:22,680
So a little, I love that. 
I love when you can because you 

1297
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:24,680
can just do that. 
Like people can do that, but 

1298
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:28,320
it's so much nicer when the 
creator kind of does it because 

1299
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,720
they might go like looking at 
the creature and making it. 

1300
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:34,480
The stats that you want it to 
have is always going to be 

1301
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:38,040
better when you know how it 
feels for you versus, you know, 

1302
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:42,600
especially with. 
Karen is so limited, you know, 

1303
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,240
you know, the its stat locks are
bare bones. 

1304
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,240
Like it's the so few things 
versus an OSE statlock which has

1305
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,000
got a lot. 
It's like, you know, I don't 

1306
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,920
have in my head what this 
creature is and you know, Karen,

1307
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:55,840
this is what I need to present 
to you for Karen. 

1308
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,680
But if I'm, if I have more, more
things to present, like I have 

1309
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:00,560
an OSC, like I'm going to give 
you some more stuff. 

1310
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:02,360
Like there's going to be some 
more things for you to work with

1311
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:04,560
here because the system supports
that. 

1312
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:07,760
So yeah. 
So it's going to be a little bit

1313
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,000
of both. 
And hopefully people like my OC 

1314
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:13,880
stuff so I can say, hey, I've 
got another OC thing and we'll 

1315
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:14,680
see. 
We'll see how that goes. 

1316
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:16,800
It's also, you know, it's, it's 
super smart to do that. 

1317
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,040
I know that Stella just did that
with Von Hein Manor. 

1318
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:22,600
She put out I think 8 different 
step blocks with that, which is 

1319
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:24,400
I loved. 
I think that's so clever for so 

1320
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:26,640
many reasons. 
One, because there's no such 

1321
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,080
thing as as true system neutral.
Someone always has this system 

1322
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:30,160
in mind when they're writing 
something. 

1323
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:33,640
So I might as well start it up, 
but being able to set it up for 

1324
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:37,160
a bunch of different things, 1 
is going to give you a better 

1325
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,760
audience of people to pull 
through. 2 is going to 

1326
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:41,600
communicate your vision a lot 
more. 

1327
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:45,760
And I think it's just those two.
It's great. 

1328
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:48,600
It's it's great for everybody. 
It's nice to have just label, 

1329
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,680
just label which ones which but 
I'm, I'm excited for this and 

1330
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:55,320
that cover art, man Scrag and 
just like that is gorgeous. 

1331
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:58,000
Yeah. 
Podcast Land. 

1332
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:02,640
Watch the episode. 
Yeah, so I so Scragen also did 

1333
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:04,640
some of the the few interior 
spots for me. 

1334
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:11,440
So it's not like, you know, I 
I'm not an artist, I'm getting 

1335
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,760
into the actual drawing of the 
dungeons by, you know, watching 

1336
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:19,080
some dice and logos videos so I 
can do my own dungeon drawing 

1337
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:20,440
up. 
But like the actual illustration

1338
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:24,000
never did my thing. 
And so there are illustrations. 

1339
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,080
It's not art heavy. 
It's not like big splashy, 

1340
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:29,280
splashy spreads of art. 
But you know, there's some 

1341
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:30,880
scragging stuff in there. 
It all looks good. 

1342
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,200
It, it has it, it conveys my 
vision. 

1343
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:35,880
He did a great job of capturing 
the brief on those pieces. 

1344
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,400
So, so I'm excited for this one.
And it's all green. 

1345
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:41,480
It's like that was the that was 
the literally all. 

1346
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:44,760
So Chris at Junk Food Games, I 
know from Discord, he's just 

1347
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:46,800
like, yeah, I'm doing a jam. 
It's just green. 

1348
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:48,720
I'm like, I've got an adventure 
already. 

1349
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:50,560
Everything's green. 
Perfect. 

1350
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:53,440
Did it also blow your mind when 
you found out it was Dyson 

1351
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,720
logos, not Dyson logos? 
And it's it's just his name and 

1352
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:58,040
it's nothing to do with like a 
logo. 

1353
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:00,520
So I actually, I, I never knew 
it was actually. 

1354
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,080
So I knew it wasn't. 
I think I gathered that it 

1355
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,840
wasn't the the word logo with an
S on it, but I didn't know that 

1356
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:07,240
was that his real name? 
That's his. 

1357
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:08,920
Name. 
His name is just Dyson Logos. 

1358
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,280
Yeah, I thought it was Dyson 
logos forever. 

1359
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,240
And I was like, maybe he just 
started by making logos and then

1360
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:15,760
just I was like, damn. 
Nope. 

1361
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,560
That's his name. 
You mentioned Skirmish. 

1362
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,040
That will be for a future 
episode for sure. 

1363
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:26,000
We are going to talk between now
and then about Skirmish. 

1364
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:27,560
I would love to have you come 
on. 

1365
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:29,960
I know you you. 
You've teased some stuff in our 

1366
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:32,640
Discord about what's What's 
coming from that? 

1367
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:34,880
I was, I was painting some 
battle tech minis for it. 

1368
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:39,640
So it's Max, It's no, it's 
diceless is it's big thing 

1369
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:44,160
because I don't like, you know, 
where it's the year 12,000 or 

1370
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,720
whatever. 
You don't miss, you're in a 

1371
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,680
you're in a walking robot. 
Like they don't miss. 

1372
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,560
So no, we're not rolling to hit 
like everything hits. 

1373
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:55,000
So it's going to, you have, it's
going to be other things that 

1374
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,080
you need to manage to, to work 
that out. 

1375
01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:58,920
So yeah, so I'm excited for that
one. 

1376
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,400
And I've got, I've got a, I've 
got a rule set that we're going 

1377
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,600
to start playing at home and 
start working on, but it'll be 

1378
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:06,920
good. 
Yeah, I'm very excited. 

1379
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:09,640
I we, we are definitely going to
have a skirmish episode in the 

1380
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:11,760
future. 
We got to hop into TTS too and 

1381
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:13,400
and play some skirmish games as 
well. 

1382
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:16,439
I'm always. 
Down for that. 

1383
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:20,200
So the thing it literally told 
me back because I don't I don't 

1384
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:23,160
even know how you get TTS where 
Tabletop simulator? 

1385
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:24,479
What is that in? 
Is that in Steam? 

1386
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:25,640
Steam. 
Is that just? 

1387
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:27,760
Steam. 
I don't have Steam. 

1388
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:31,240
I don't play video games. 
Do you have a computer that 

1389
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:32,680
works? 
I don't know. 

1390
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:34,240
I've got a. 
Yeah, I'm on a computer right 

1391
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:35,279
now. 
I guess I could figure that. 

1392
01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:37,560
Out get steam and download. 
You can just get it. 

1393
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,600
You can just download it. 
It's just you can just get it. 

1394
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,160
Steam is just a it's just like a
marketplace and then you just 

1395
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:46,640
buy games through through the OK
and then you just load them up 

1396
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:50,479
and just like a computer game. 
Wow, it's literally that easy. 

1397
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:55,439
I'm still, I'm still on. 
Like I was buying CD keys for 

1398
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,520
Diablo 2 for multiplayer online.
That was the last time I was 

1399
01:08:58,520 --> 01:08:59,880
playing video games on a 
computer. 

1400
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:03,560
So this is a thing. 
We'll, we'll get you in and for,

1401
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:07,640
for play testing and stuff, it 
is so nice because you can do 

1402
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:09,479
anything like you can. 
It's just all digital. 

1403
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:11,560
So you don't need to worry about
like obviously it's always 

1404
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:13,880
better to DIY and paint your 
stuff up. 

1405
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:16,800
But especially for like us on 
the show, doing reviews like 

1406
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:18,120
every two weeks is what we're 
trying to do. 

1407
01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:20,920
Being able to just like build a 
board in TTS that has all the 

1408
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,359
effects and 3D stuff that we 
want and, and move stuff around 

1409
01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:25,160
with having to build full armies
to test stuff. 

1410
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:28,800
It's great for play testing. 
All right, I'll add it to the 

1411
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:30,439
list. 
It'll get and I'll take the 

1412
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:33,080
list. 
So people are going to go back 

1413
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,680
out of the iron Labyrinth and 
then they can get add-ons for 

1414
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:39,080
all of the rest of your stuff. 
But it's all there. 

1415
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:41,080
After they do that, where can 
people find you? 

1416
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:43,279
Elsewhere on the Internet, Find 
your shop, everything. 

1417
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:44,720
That's what. 
That's what all the boxes are. 

1418
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:46,359
This is all. 
Your stuff, this is this is the 

1419
01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:48,279
warehouse. 
So yeah, so you get stuff that's

1420
01:09:48,279 --> 01:09:51,840
in these boxes if you get 
add-ons, my stuff. 

1421
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:56,160
So M Allen Hall just straight 
through lowercase, no 

1422
01:09:56,600 --> 01:10:02,600
punctuation.com that is that I 
on itch, it's M hyphen Allen 

1423
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:06,560
hyphen Hall dot H dot IO. 
But the link to Itch is right at

1424
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:08,440
the top of the website. 
So that's probably the easiest 

1425
01:10:08,440 --> 01:10:12,840
way to go. 
Yeah, and and we're, we're going

1426
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:16,160
to before 2 years is up, I feel 
like you should come back on the

1427
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:17,800
show. 
If you drop a skirmish game 

1428
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:19,760
before then, we'll definitely 
bring you back on. 

1429
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,360
We have been very skirmish 
pilled on the weekly girl for a 

1430
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,160
little while. 
So I feel like that's what I 

1431
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:26,640
was. 
Actually thinking, I was 

1432
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:30,360
actually thinking, actually 
listening to you guys earlier, 

1433
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:33,640
when's under the Dice Fest? 
October. 

1434
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,720
That's a skirmish thing, right? 
It is, it is in fact a 

1435
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:40,680
scrimmaging. 
It is the hive scum podcasts 

1436
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:44,560
like a festival that they have 
like Han kind of that they've 

1437
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,120
started on the on the East 
Coast, yeah. 

1438
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,160
So he's so yes, maybe I'll bring
it there because you're going to

1439
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:52,600
be there, right? 
Yeah, for sure that they, they 

1440
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:57,240
announced the like vendors and 
and stuff like that are out, but

1441
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:01,120
the tickets are not out yet. 
But it is the like last week of 

1442
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:03,800
September, it's the weekend of 
the 1st weekend of October. 

1443
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:08,360
So you can just find them on on 
the trust discord, yeah. 

1444
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:10,920
Maybe I'll show up there, we'll 
play some play. 

1445
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:12,920
Some are. 
You going to between two cons. 

1446
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:16,920
No Goblin Archive has asked me 
that this morning. 

1447
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:21,120
No, it the, it's the that's like
my kids are right out of school 

1448
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:23,680
when that happens. 
So we had already had some stuff

1449
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:25,120
planned. 
So it's not going to work this 

1450
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:27,640
year. 
Everything was already done 

1451
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:28,880
before they even announced 
dates. 

1452
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:32,920
But I'm going to keep it, keep 
it in mind next year that maybe 

1453
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:35,000
something will work, but you 
definitely. 

1454
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:38,680
Want to pax? 
I, I pax is in my backyard, so I

1455
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:42,120
can't not go and especially with
it's like it sounds like it's 

1456
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:44,040
tough to get in. 
So it's like I can't give it up.

1457
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:45,880
I can't like. 
Yeah. 

1458
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:47,800
That's right here. 
So yeah. 

1459
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,040
So I'm not like I'm never, I'm 
not going to give up the spot 

1460
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:51,320
ever. 
Even when I'm not making stuff 

1461
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:53,280
anymore, I'm just going to have 
my booth and I'll just roll up 

1462
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:55,920
there and like set up a table 
and like just me and my buds 

1463
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:58,680
hang out and play games. 
But like not, I can't give up 

1464
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:00,400
the booth. 
You got to because it could be 

1465
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:02,440
years before you get back in. 
That's the reason that I'm like 

1466
01:12:02,440 --> 01:12:06,760
working now because when like 
world champ, obviously we're a 

1467
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:08,760
huge world champ fans. 
There was a year where he wasn't

1468
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:10,600
going to be able to go. 
So he reached out to me and 

1469
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:12,160
Hunter were like, hey, you guys 
know my games. 

1470
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:13,960
Do you want to run the booth for
me so I don't lose it? 

1471
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:16,200
And then I've just run it with 
him ever since. 

1472
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,400
So yeah, if you if you if you 
lose your booth, it could be a 

1473
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:19,840
couple years before you get back
in. 

1474
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:20,720
So keep it. 
Yeah. 

1475
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:23,120
So I can't, can't risk that. 
So I'm I'm definitely gonna keep

1476
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:23,600
going there. 
Well. 

1477
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:28,360
Then I will I for sure I will 
see you at packs, but I'm sure 

1478
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:29,920
we'll run into each other before
then and we're going to 

1479
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:31,840
definitely talk skirmish and 
I'll get I'll, I'll teach you 

1480
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:33,560
video games, I guess in TTS 
before. 

1481
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:35,960
Then Oh my God, video games 
crazy, all right. 

1482
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,400
But Allen, thank you so much for
coming on the show. 

1483
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:40,280
Really appreciate it. 
Everyone please make sure you go

1484
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:43,280
back out of the Iron Labyrinth 
and go check out all the rest of

1485
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:45,920
the stuff. 
M allenhall.com. 

1486
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:48,160
We will see you all later. 
And once again, Allen, thank you

1487
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:50,200
for being here. 
Thanks for having me all. 

1488
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:52,080
Right, Bye everybody.