Hello, and welcome to the weekly.
Scroll podcast brought to you by the adventure.
Archive, my name is Ryan and I'm Takin the cat.
And with me with us, we have a special guest with us tonight.
We have Corey of rookie jet Studio.
How you doing Corey? I'm doing well, how are you guys
so good to have you on? Oh good, I'm sorry, dropping a
Trigun reference. Yeah, we are referring stoked to
have you here, man. Let me we've been you've
obviously been following you since I read giant was a
Kickstarter and I know it was one of our earlier reviews, so a
begin dress. And I think, I think thinking of
it, I know what are in the tweet, I do this afternoon, I
was like, I think this is the, I think you have the record for
the most games or reviewed technically World Champ.
We did two games and is e'en. So I think still the record will
be rookie jet because tonight after we chat for a little bit,
I'm sure we'll talk. I don't like ice to.
We're talking about empty cycle Minds in the mail, which is,
which is the the newest game that you put out aside from the
one that's currently funding, which will talk about to.
But early on, let's just get into it.
And then slowly, we'll work our way there.
Um, what made you want to start writing, table top games?
And why are they all about anime?
So I guess for me, that's like that's a question that a lot of
people start with, and I never really have a good answer for
it. So I mean for me it was like my
friends were playing D&D and I'd always been interested in the
Indie, you know, I mean, I used to live in like Section 8
Housing and we'd see like, people's Apartments, get loaded
out because they couldn't pay for rent, or whatever happens.
And I got ahold of some D&D books and I'm just like, I don't
know what the hell's going on here, you know, I'm like 12
years Sold and I'm just like, I don't know, math, very well.
So I was like, wouldn't it be cool if these were very simple
and then I'm like, what else am I interested in anime.
Very cool. So taking that with me to
adulthood, you know, I started working on video games a lot and
I dived into that very heavily. But then after I got into it,
I'm like, wow, I really don't want to pump out like one video
game per decade so that people can judge it at that point.
So I decided that I'm going to work.
Tabletop RPGs, I can write them. I can get art for them.
I can turn them into books and it kind of like hearkens back to
a point where I was a little kid where I used to love like
writing books, you know, or like making stories and it just kind
of went from there. So, I mean, I feel like it was
kind of a natural progression for Me, overall, Hey, cool.
So kind of your. So your first game if I'm not
mistaken is over arms. Correct?
Yeah. The First full game that I ever
released was over arms, okay. And what was kind of the impetus
for like, starting like over arms?
Like, well, you just like really In Like A Jojo phase or yeah?
Yeah. I mean, definitely definitely in
a JoJo phase. I feel like 2019 is probably
about the time where, like, people were like, oh, what's up
with all these JoJo? Memes?
What's going on here? Yeah.
And you know, the universal Consciousness in that sphere was
kind of like oh this is, this is kind of cool and so I got into
it as well and you know, it just I haven't been so absorbed by an
anime or piece of media like that since I was a child.
So it was like so cool to be like oh my God like there's so
much I'm learning about this. There's parts that haven't even
come out in English it, you know?
And so Was I was just really captivated by it and so in 2019,
I started working on over arms and then in 2020, you know, the
whole world was ending so that's when it launched.
And I was very, very stressed out during that period but I was
I was overall happy with the product, you know?
I I mean, what else could you ask for?
Get is very cool, it did. I is one of my more I love Jojo
and I also really like I played Persona around the same time
that I actually got over arms. And so it very much hits, both
those things and so it's fucking exactly what I want to go
through it now to alright. Yes, it's on my list.
I bounced off JoJo pretty hard for Tiffany season.
One is the best and you have to watch it with the English dubs,
okay? Like, you can't watch it with
us. Yeah.
But those are both of the problems.
Here's the issue is that? I originally started watching it
sub. I enjoy Subs.
I enjoyed jobs, either way, like, I hate, I hate the fucking
tribalism of like, which one's better not.
You're not more intellectual because you just listen Subs.
Sometimes, I want to eat my food while they watch a fucking
anime, right? And I want to be able to take my
eyes off the screen for a second, but I watch your
subtitles. Anyway, the jobs I think are the
subs fit JoJo really well. And as soon as I switch to
English, I was like, it's now a Sounds terrible.
It sounds ridiculous. Good like I live, obviously deal
not to have, but like after season one I was like I got
other shit to watch and I know that it's good and I know
there's a ton of it out there and it is on my list of things
to do. It's just a matter of like
getting back to it, but I bounced off so hard.
So when we went over over arms, I think you're even like we were
talking about on the show because I was like, I don't
really get how this is Jojo. I don't see anything.
You're like bro. You only one season 1.
Shut the fuck up. Where's the bar?
Where they kicked the dog? Yeah, totally unrelated.
But are you on our /? Shitpost Crusade?
No. Okay, it's like a joke.
I mean I've really grown out of like the, the JoJo phase, I
think. For the most part, like, I mean,
I love JoJo of course, but overall, it's not like my main
focus is not what I'm gonna. Yeah, I'm right now, so to harp
on jojo at all, I just talking about Judge obeyed over.
I mean, the Jojo Jojo references and everything, I feel like
really peaked around that time. Yeah, absolutely after.
So it was It was for me, at least it was, it was something
that I loved. But I wanted to distance myself
from at the time so well. So then with a lot of your I
mean, almost all your games are, I mean not almost everything
when a game is a very enemy influence, do you feel like the
anime you're into at the time heavily influences a game you
want to write or you have like a list that you're just like going
down. I feel like I have a list, you
know. It's like JoJo's was the one
where I was like at the time I was getting Getting really into
tabletop RPGs and exploring different systems rather than
just d and d. And so, for over arms I was just
like, nothing's really doing this at the time.
I mean there's several other projects that had come out in
the past but I'm like this is too crunchy for me.
You know, I won't just have the exact same like wacky, go
bullshit that JoJo's has and I want people to just be like,
yeah, my stand is a slinky that when it touches the stair that
you're on, you All through it, you know, or something like
that. I wanted to give people that
kind of Leverage to make their own stuff within the games.
And I feel like that kind of that kind of process follows me
to this day where I want people to build content for the games,
you know some has handed off but some is also tucked away inside
the game in terms of like the list though, it's like yeah I
absolutely have a list of games are like, anime that I want to
make games. He's after.
But I also want to kind of peel away from that and make more
original content, which, you know, is kind of seen an empty
cycle, the latest game that came out.
So Something around that. Yeah, very cool.
Well after after Joe we got to the I don't even remember the
we'd have to dig back and see which episode we actually talked
about red giant in one of the things that I love about the way
that you create and specifically produce your content is and we
talked about it when we were doing the kick, start the
podcast that had Red Giant on it.
It's like red time is done. You were like it's done like
soon as it funds. Here's a beauty code, it's done
that one of the that was early on where I was talking about.
Well, I got projects that are three years past due because it
seems like people don't use right into the condoms done.
So when I was like, this looks amazing.
The art looks fantastic. Leo looks cool.
Wait a minute, I'm going to get it in like two months that
fucking hard back in. I mean, yeah, literally, it was
like not even two months later. We're talking about it on the
show from the point where the campaign was still going on and
they were able to do it. I guess like, good fucking job.
But like what makes you also want to do that to just be like
it's finished content. It's ready to go.
It's all done. Then I'll throw it up on
Kickstarter. Yeah.
I mean like like to be transparent completely because I
feel like it's not a secret at this point.
It's like I'm working on these games for years or months before
I take them to Kickstarter but for me I feel like I don't want
to get. I've seen a lot of games fail on
Kickstarter where it's like, oh, you raised 40,000 dollars and
now the project is like four years later.
I don't like the promise stuff like that and I feel like
Kickstarter has really kind of pivoted into a pre-order tool
for tabletop RPGs, and in my past experience, that's mostly
the way I use it. You know.
I create a buffer where it's like, oh, we have a problem with
printing, you know, it's like, you know, you might get this in
February, you might get this in March, something like that, but
for the most part with me, I try to have the bulk of what I want
to give you ready before I actually take it to Kickstarter,
you know, by the time I take a project to Kickstarter, I have a
proof of that copy whether it's complete or whether it needs
changes or things like that, that may happen.
But it's, it's something that I want to take care of ahead of
time because I don't like, I don't want to get myself in that
position where it's like I've worked for, you know, three,
four years. ears in the tabletop RPG space and then people are
like oh well, Why are you failing this now?
You know why don't you have this ready now?
And looking at my previous projects and it's like you know
there may come a day where I want to do you know shipping out
of my house but I live in an apartment you know it's like I
live in an apartment my work a day job so this is certainly not
something that pays the bills. It's something that is you know
a passion project and this is the easiest like the
print-on-demand way is the easiest way for people to get
these. Projects on time and delivered
correctly. If that makes sense, totally.
So, that's where I'm at with it. You know, I mean, I want to be
transparent about that because I've had people ask me that
before. Like, how are you doing this?
And it's just I'm not, I don't have anything to hide in that
regard. It's just Kickstarter.
Ultimately, you know, I've had people ask me to and not to draw
this question on but I've had this for me, honestly go off.
Yeah, I've had people ask me before it's like you know well
why don't you Release it and it's like well I wouldn't make
as much money that way, you know at the end of the day, if I'm
not making money on a project, am I going to, you know, be able
to continue doing this? No, that's like your back.
Pay yourself for all these hours that you're doing the same
amount of work, right? Yeah.
Else would you're just like you're just like okay well I did
the work now I'm back paying my sorry.
Right. But it's a different
presentation, you know? Yeah, absolutely one.
That isn't so transparent with people from the get-go.
So It's something that I want people to take into
consideration. I know not everybody will
because I always love to pull people more people on to these
projects as we create them, because we're hitting different
genres, we're heading different anime, we're heading, you know,
all these different marks. But it's something that I want
to touch base on because I've had so many questions about it
in the past. So yeah.
I also think, I mean, there's a big difference to with having a
game already. Go.
Because like I said, our excitement for a giant was it
never really way and it looked fucking awesome.
And then the fact that we knew it was coming and then it got
there within 2 months, it was like cool.
I've been excited for this. I'm excited cause it's on the
way and I'm excited that it's here, but then you'll get some
bigger projects. Like like one of the biggest
funded tabletop games in history, anybody remember that
one is fucking Avatar. I still, don't know.
When's the last time you heard of any fucking thing about
Apatow. It was huge.
Everyone was so excited for it's been a fucking year and a half
like some people have some PDFs and that's it, excitement gone
because it's going to trickle out over like two to three years
because backers are going to get a PDF and then maybe they'll
start to get it in their hands and then it'll go to pre-release
and stuff like that. But again, with your stuff, it's
like, it's done. It's ready, the campaign ends
fun, take your hand, I get pod codes.
I'm still excited. I get it in my fucking hands and
I can't tell you how refreshing an awesome that is for someone
who backs way way too many fucking Kickstarter's to be able
to leave it. As far as like, empty Cycles
concerned, like this of the PO decodes arrived, not very long
after the campaign ended at a man than I had it in my hand and
like, oh, we can hang out. I'm like, that's so it's so, and
they didn't even remember that. The PO decodes Rap is really
cool. You can do that, though.
It's fantastic. So, you know, you kind of talked
about wanting to like make more original content and I think
there's this like conversation going on.
On my about genre emulation. And like, personally, I don't
see any issue with that at all. I think if it's healing well,
and I think that we all enjoy stuff, but like you're saying
that you want to do like more original stuff.
Like what direction do you see? Like the future of your work
going like more rigid as like morons the contents answer?
Damn, that's a spicy question. I see guy.
Yeah damn um, so I've seen some of the conversation about genre
emulation and I don't I don't want to like put myself at the
Forefront of that but I feel like There's really nothing
wrong with that, right, green? I mean, you have, you have like
good society, which emulates novels?
I can't remember the author's name right now.
Please forgive me but you have all these different games that
do emulate something. Like, like I'm not remembering
anything at this point, but you have a lot of tabletop RPGs, the
aim to emulate something and bring it to the table, where you
can sit with your friends, you can play pretend with numbers
and you. An essentially, you know, do
whatever you want to do, and I don't think there's anything
wrong with that. I think, I think that, you know,
in the future, I want to kind of spend this in a more original
way where I'm creating things. Because now, I have like a
little bit of a following right where people are interested in
what I do, not necessarily the genre, but the things behind
that genre, right? So, I think I want, To go a
little bit more in that route but I also don't want to drop
these kind of re-creations of like anime or video games and
tabletop format. So I think like the next big
project that I have is I'm hoping is going to come out in
2023 and it's kind of like an emulation of Star Wars and Final
Fantasy combined and it uses cards and things like that.
But I'm not going to touch on that too much.
Because that's still such a heavy work in progress.
Very funny because I also have a work in progress.
That's an emulation of Star Wars in the wizard wizard of
Earthsea. So personally gun.
Let's hey. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So very cool. Yeah.
And that's still very much the same.
I have no issue with emulation. I think that we all want, see
these things were inspired by them and one of the experience
at the table and I think that there may be as I can over doing
it. But I know where that is.
I think that you do a really good job of being like.
Hey, here's the thing that kind of fits this thing but also if
it's a couple other things and you can kind of How you want.
But yeah, I am excited to see like, where you go because,
yeah, I like empty cycle feels different and it can kind of
stand on as its own thing. Like, I know there's still like
a little bit of there's inspiration there, but you can
really step out of like fully, cool e NF L CL and make it its
own thing as well. Yeah I'm very interested for
this project you should definitely send me your rough
draft so I can see it as. Yeah, we'll see ya.
Okay. Cool.
Maybe we should touch base about your project to.
Yeah. Absolutely my bad.
So nobody should touch base by your goddamn project.
Again Hunter, it's only been like a year, um yesterday takes
time, it takes time. So, so going from the future to
the Past here, one of the, the influences, I've seen a lot in
the way the system that you write in, because a lot of your
games have I think at its core very similar system, Um, and I
believe it is an influence by, right Utama.
What was the impetus to kind of convert that into what you
wanted to do. And then to kind of keep that
kind of system going with, like, the two stats added together for
four different things and dices on two different spots and stuff
like that. Yeah, I think that like, you
know, I went to a bookstore and Virginia one day and I happened
across Utama and I was just obsessed with it.
Um, the get-go. I mean like coming coming from a
kid who played like Harvest, Moon 64 and like, all like Quest
64 and Final Fantasy is a kid and seeing this book and being
like, oh shit, this is a tabletop RPG like blew my mind
immediately. But then also reading through it
and seeing how simple it was, you know, it was like, this is
something like immediately clicked in my mind, I'm like,
this is something that I could teach my friends how to play
versus, like, DND or versus Any os are kind of game or osc and
it just it clicked for me. I don't I don't know really how
to explain it other than that but it was just like it just
seemed like such a simple way to design a game and you can build
off that in a myriad of ways that I didn't want to.
Really, I didn't want to let that go, you know, it was, it
was something that just really stuck out to me and something
that I really wanted to happen. So I sorry, My cats here was all
time trust. Absolutely.
But one second. Sorry, kitty cat.
But, yeah, I mean, it was essentially like it just, it
felt right to me, you know, I mean, I can't really boil it
down, more than that. I mean, I've seen a lot of
people riff off of Route AMA and that sense and they're certainly
games before we you tell, Matt that kind of whole step
placement system of like, your strength is a D4.
Your Is like a D6, kind of thing, but it just made sense.
It was great. So yeah, I know.
So I read red giant long before I saw her Utama and then sought
after I was like, oh, I get it now.
I see it. Yeah, but we were reviewing red
giant. It was like this, it does.
It feels good. I like it.
It's we crunch the numbers. When we're doing red giant as
well. We pulled up a probability
calculator and I was like, oh and we compared it to I can try
What the, they like, what you aim for the roll, your DC's but
not that I can recall them, but it was like, oh, this makes
perfect sense and like mathematically like a
probability it works out incredibly well and like try my
God. Can I touch on that for a
moment? I was so scared.
When you guys were reviewing red giant that I had made like some
sort of mathematical like problem and I've watched you
guys like run through it. It's like oh my God.
They did their work on this. And I have, to be honest, I
didn't, I totally Wing that I totally winded.
I have to be completely honest, I completely win that, so it's
just like, oh my God, they love it.
So it's like, it's a very sensible way to think about
numbers, you know. Like you didn't really need to
do the probability calculations for it to be like, oh, that's
how that's make sense, you know, right.
And I think that's one of the benefits to doing it that way.
Is because once you have that That math down, it works, right?
So I feel like that was, that was a true trial and tribulation
of red giant, man, the system at its core is it was just like, oh
my God. Yeah.
They had to have, like, checked the bell curves on this.
It's like, no. I shouldn't it live like, in the
show because I was like, I feel like I'm really curious how it
works with walking. Let's do it.
I watched you Ryan, check the bell curves.
And I was like, oh my God, he's gonna tear me up.
Part sweating sweating flooring. Oh yeah.
Speaking of your following like you You have, because I'm on
your Discord and I've been less active, but I was more active.
I think, at one point, I'm not as I could, but your discourse
like incredibly active, like, dear people who post on HUB of
animal, which is just people posting about their anima for
over arms like yesterday, you know?
Yeah. So, do you like, how much of
your following do you like, pull into your decision, making for
like designing games? And like do you like crowdsource
them at all? For any of that?
I mean, I've put out polls before I ask people.
I'm like, you know, how would you feel about this, things like
that. I mean, I always liked it.
If you're interested in my games, I want to know, your
opinion. Yeah, it's not something where
I'm sitting there and I'm just like, oh, well, whatever I can
get like, three more of you or anything like that.
Like, I'm very blessed to have the people that I do that are
interested in my games and interested in talking about
those games with the other people in the server, you know?
So, It puts me in kind of like a surreal placement where it's
just like you always dream of being in that kind of situation
where it's like, people are just like, oh, I love this game.
What what else can I do with it? And, you know, you have to live
it at some point but it's like I can't be there for every
conversation. Yeah, you know, at the start of
the server and things like that, of course I would be but
anymore. It's like, you know, I love to
jump in and just be like, oh, you know, this is, this is rad,
I love what you're doing with it but I don't offer as much, you
know, oversight to it is. I yes, I would because I, if I
did that with like the social media promotion, everything else
I would never get any work done. So you need to do like it, it's
up and running. It has a very great.
I mean, have a really positive vibe, you know, everybody, there
is like so creative. I know they're cool.
They're great people, they're great people.
You know, it's it's I love seeing people create stuff for
what I have already created. That's it, I just I love it.
You know it's yeah, it's great. I mean some people take it and
they roll with it. I'll see somebody posts
something in the like add like a spoiler tag to it.
And I'm just like, damn why didn't I think of that?
It's very cool. Yeah yeah, be the best feeling
especially as a game's Creator to write a game to successfully.
Put the game out there and have other people start adding to the
game's gotta feel fantastic. You know?
I mean, that's why a lot of people in the industry love
doing like a sardine. And stuff for the game.
You know, when you look at like, some like Spencer doing Lumen or
Christmas at doing like The Wretched alone system, I mean
there's hundreds of games now for that.
And I can't imagine, you know, how that feels to be able to
create something and people be so inspired by something that
you made that they make even more stuff so right.
I mean it's it's I feel like our SRT is kind of exists is like
the quick start guides because we have it for like over arms,
red giant empty cycle. So people kind of get the gist
of it and they start designing things.
Things around that. And I go.
Well, I like this enough. I guess I'll buy it.
So, I mean, yeah. Yeah.
You know, at some point you have to just kind of like distance
yourself from it, because if you, if you, if you sit there
and you read into it all day every day, you're kind of in
that Echo chamber, but I love peeking in and seeing what
people are doing from time to time because most times people
have like, just an incredible idea that I never thought of,
and it's very, very cool to see that people are dedicating their
time to not only like, you know, working on something.
Thing that I have made but also making it so extravagant and
putting that kind of like detail into it to share with others.
You know I I'ma get sappy like it's it get soft really.
It's a really, really something else, you know, I mean I don't
know how to describe it, it's definitely a feeling that as a
game designer. You feel like that's what you're
searching for and then you find it and it's just like, oh, how
nice? So that's that's the way I think
of it. So kind of going back to more
like online tabletop RPG discourse there's a big
discussion going on the you and I kind of talked about this
before we actually started the stream because you know we do
that on every show we have somebody on like the it like
supplements versus systems and you have now like three really
strong systems that really like stand Ray.
Well, do you have any interest in like releasing like
Adventures for Those systems ringing kind of supplements for
them or you like? Yeah.
Floor even Lord. Yeah, morning.
If you must know Ryan, I actually did start entire book
for a giant that I never finished because it was for
nanowrimo last year, I think, but that's probably not coming.
So I mean, I think for me, it's like, how does the game do after
launch? You know, it Kickstarter, you
have like all this press, you have all these people stoked on
the game but at the end of the day I'm one person right?
So for me it's like if people aren't talking about the game
where it's not really taking off afterwards, do I need to create
supplement material because if people aren't creating it, I
guess it's, it puts me in a weird spot where it's like, Am I
kind of am I? Do I owe my community this, you
know. That's that's something that
when I first started making tabletop RPGs, I never really
thought of it all was are people going to be looking for like
supplementary material or sanctions?
Things like that and I've tried to pump that out like with over
arms I pumped it out with red giant, there's a couple
different scenarios and things like that, but it's not, it's
not very strong and I'll own that you know, it just Just is
what it is. But at the same time I don't
know. It just it makes me
self-conscious because it's like well, if red giant did this
amount, then the supplements, if I like make a third of that are
people actually going to you know, by this is this going to
give me the leeway that I need to create other games, is this
to create the leeway that I need to create more supplement for
this game, you know, things like that.
And I think for a lot of what I work on, especially over arms
and red giant related, it's going to just be the game.
Yeah, if you want to make that happen, be the change that you
want to see and if I see that taking off, I'd be more than
happy to create, you know, supplementary content for it
with over arms I think especially it's it's a totally
different territory because with over arms I feel like I've done
everything. Thing I can really do with that.
I mean certainly there are some things that I could go back and
revamp. There are things that I can go
back and change and things that I can add on but it's like when
we get into like JoJo's part 7 like am I going to add rules for
horse riding? Because it's like steel ball run
or something like that you know it's like because I've actually
fucked around with that and I don't like it.
I don't like feeling forced to make that kind of content.
I don't like being forced into a corner where it's like, oh you
have to emulate this person's exact like design guide where
I'm like looking at what a rocky has done which if people don't
know that's the author of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and recreating
that and tabletop format that's not my place over.
Arms was a thing that I wanted to do and I did it and whatever
you want to do with it. You know create your own
horseback riding rules, is it? Something that I am going to
touch on one day. Absolutely, I mean over arms is
not done, red giant is not done. I've been working on a small
supplement for red giant for you know since red giant came out
but time is of the essence. And by all means I've said this
before, I'm going to say it again.
Creating new games is more profitable and more rewarding
than creating for these other games.
And I feel like that's, you know, for the ND Creator that's
going to be the route. You know, I mean the guy who
made start a valley to Pivot to a video game since you know his
game has been bought millions of times, but he's also been
working on that he's suffering from burnout.
It has an end one day and I think what tabletop RPGs if
you're not Wizards of the Coast, it's hard.
It's really hard. Yeah.
You don't have some sort of funding backing you up being
like. Yeah.
What's he wearing now? Yeah, it's hard.
It's hard. So I wanted to create that kind
of content but I'm just not, I'm not able to pump it out of the
rate that people might be used to for those other games.
Absolutely. Do you feel like, I also think
that with some of the craters, we have talked to about this,
they've been they've created like tons of games.
Like, for example, like some like, Adam vas like they're
dropping, I mean, I can dozens of game at this point.
And yeah. Who think they've gotten to a
point in there like TT RPG Journey where they're like, I
feel like all of the things I wanted to make kind of knew I've
kind of done and I want to go back and revisit some of my Like
my favorites, my babies and kind of give them.
Lord love. Do you feel like in your because
right over arms came out in? When was it, 20?
20, 20. Yeah, so I mean, that's fucking,
that's not even three years ago. Do you feel like where you're
kind of at your teacher? Every journey is is that way you
keep want to like, you want to create these new games and new
systems. We're like maybe in the future.
If you get to a point where you're like, I've kind of said,
what I want to say. Let me like double back.
Do you or do you feel like or do you have like Five year plan,
that's a contingent like because I know even Chronicle connection
plus is a very, very different game that we'll get to in a
little bit but all of your games, even though they kind of
have this like kind of core system, the kind of some of it
carries through each one. They're all drastically
different you know, over arms very JoJo, inspired red giants.
Right? Berserk inspired.
Empty cycle, is very foolish. Cool inspired.
And if you, I mean, for people that love anime, you know, that
that's awesome to see but If there's people only like some
genres and Anime like they're all very different things, you
know. And then again with Chronicle
connection plus again a very different thing.
Yeah. Very different.
So do you feel that your kind of like going through all of these
different, like aspects of design that you want to hit and
you still have more that you want to get to or you're just
kind of letting the journey and an inspiration take you along?
Yeah, I mean that's that's certainly a loaded question.
So for me it's like, you know, In five years, can you expect to
see over arms part like complete or something like that?
I would say, yes. I can't confirm that, but will
that come out probably, you know, but it's also dependent
on, you know, when I create games I want to have like, one
layout artist. I want to have one actual
artists working on the project. I look at a lot of different
games and the art varies and quality varies and you know,
different Artists and things like that.
I don't like that. I like it to be the same thing.
When you look at an anime, you know, it's not like you watch
Trigun and the art just changes Direction and part 2, you know?
So I try to carry that. With me, the downside to that is
that these artists also have lives.
They have things that they're working on and should always
available and that that has genuinely probably been the
biggest hindrance for me with a lot of these.
These games is that I'm very stubborn.
I don't want to release a game like over arms complete and it
doesn't have the original artist on board for it, you know.
It I want to be able to do that and that's not something that
I'm currently able to do. You know?
And maybe that's something I'll get over.
But right now it's something I'm kind of sticking to my guns
about so good. He'll to stand on, you know.
Like yeah, I think a lot of our We obviously have read a lot of
games, but the consistent experience of are in the game in
the creating that consistent Vibe is like really genuinely
very important, right? An art is hard.
Yeah, Jacob in our, in our bullshit, like fake number, you
know that we give to people whatever the first one who came
up with this art and style, you know what I mean?
Like, it's an important part of the game, too.
Because to be completely honest, like Cuban.
We're human beings are dumb. The smartest of us are dumb as
fuck, and we're like, pretty colors.
And trying new things are really gonna draw attention.
I, there are games that I know 100%.
I bought because the cover looked awesome, and I knew I was
buying it because the cover looks awesome.
They get the book at him, like it's a book.
That's cool. Beautiful, you know but I will
say that's something that I do really really enjoy about your
content. Like when we looked at like red
giant for example the it was the same artist a whole way through.
It looks absolutely stunning, empty cycle, the same way that
all of the art it's the same artist.
There's not like It's not like every page of scattered with all
these little bits and pieces and I have no problem with people
using public domain art. I think it looks fantastic.
I know a lot of people know us are seen do it but it can give
that kind of like scattered effect.
And that's not somehow turned into like a bonus or tweaked or
something, it can be a little bit different so I agree with
him. I think that's a hill to die on.
Just be like, fuck it one artist, in Sony one, I'm going
to come back to because I really, really enjoy the
consistency and the the level of Polish it gives your stuff.
I mean, it keeps it. Looking fantastic, the whole way
through, and it's something to look forward to, and all the
books you put on. Yeah, I mean, I definitely
appreciate that but it's, you know, it's something where like,
I look at a, like a video game, or I look at an anime, and they
have a creative art director, right?
And so, it always carries that same style.
Even if it is multiple artists, they carries that same style.
I'm not saying that you should not support games that don't
have like multiple artists and multiple different like visual
art Direction. Because we're tabletop RPGs and
you're going to be very very sad if you expect every tabletop RPG
to have the same artists throughout.
But I would say, that's one of the things that I am, definitely
kind of adhering to where it's, it's if I don't have it, it
doesn't feel worth it for me to pump that kind of content out.
You know, there will be times. Of course, where I will, you
know, Have art that comes from somebody else.
But at the same time for a red giant and over arms, I feel like
that's one of the strong points of the book is that it feels
very cohesive and art Direction. It feels very personable and it
feels strong on that regard. And that's something that's very
proud of and that's something she won.
Ye the artist of both, of those books should feel very, very
good about. So, Yeah, I mean, I will say in
all of your end. This is, I mean, if anyone's
listen podcast before, you know that I'm the fucking, you know,
what, he had to say on the fucking Edge Lord, between these
two edges Lords. Here, red giants.
My favorite game that you they have put out.
I love empty. Cycle is fantastic, but I don't
think it's a secret that red giants.
My favorite, I love berserk. I love the dark shit in the
games. Have two fantastic, but also,
John is very cool. Even beyond the art, the layout
the pain, though, even just the way the pages, Look the with
like the border and everything. Absolutely stunning.
I mean when we got it that was like one of the first things
that we looked at and I think we talked about it on the podcast
pretty heavily. I think I drooled over to bit
just be like these fucking Pages.
Absolutely beautiful. So the direction that you want
without I know you had a light, a different layout artist with
this because an MD Saga ledge and I really hope I don't say it
wrong because I follow them on the tweeters.
But this is Gene. Vern Jean Burn yeah.
John Vern I knew yeah it's okay. Um French.
All right so um what did you I know we talked about your layout
artist a little bit beforehand. Was there a specific choice to
go with? Like, a different layout artist
for a different style? Or is this just a matter of
doing something a little different because MD cycle does
look a little bit different than like over arms or Red Giant,
right? So actually, I created the
layout for empty. Cycle myself and then Jean
translated that to the actual book.
So Ima. Amen.
Well a guidette galette. Oh, I'm butchering that myself a
men. Will I go with the Leto?
But he naturally came out with fabula Ultima and definitely
dedicated his time to that, he deserves, all the success that
he has. And He just became too busy to
work on this kind of stuff. You know.
Like I told you before we had actually started recording, he
he and I met via Ryu Tama. And so we just kind of started
working on stuff together. He had his foot in the door far
before I had, and I was just dedicated enough, I guess to get
papers on to her words on the papers.
And so, he took that ran with it, made it, what it is.
I mean, Both over arms and red giant would not be what they
were without his his involvement in those projects and you know
I'm forever grateful for him. Working on those with me,
fantastic, fantastic person, literally could not speak higher
of him, but you know, it's it's some point.
You know, you have to, you have to move on as people.
He's going his his route and I'm going mine.
And that's just the way things work out so I'm hoping we can we
can work together again someday. But for now, you know that's
that's the way the cards are laying.
So I will say I do you. I love the layout of of MD cycle
like little different but it's fantastic.
But do you feel like working with someone last talented as as
Emma was is like you learned a lot of stuff for layout or do
you feel like you know this is just at the progression of you
as well with with creating as to switch into being will do the
layout to I mean I think Sean is fantastic and his own right you
know I wouldn't say that one is better than the other or
anything of that nature. But I do think that it's
definitely been a learning experience of transitioning from
cosima. Didn't only help me with the
layout for these. He would read through the Game
and be like, this doesn't make sense.
You know, and maybe maybe it was bad on me to not include that
and the games, but emo would genuinely read through it and
help me structure the game, especially collaborator.
Absolutely. I mean, he deserves just as much
credit as so I do and all honesty, fantastic.
Fantastic person. I mean, I can't stress that
enough. I think that he He's doing much
better now. But at the same time, throughout
that whole process of creating over arms and red giant, he was
just a valuable resource for me. I mean, absolutely like sitting
down with a friend that you've known for years and talking
about something you want to make.
Right. You know, like me and my cousin
would sit down and talk about like these game ideas that we
wanted to make, and it would be like such a healthy experience
and we'd sit down there for hours and I felt that way when I
was talking to Ima. So, definitely a great person
would love to work with them again, but that's the way it
goes. So one thing I want to talk
about like I said before, a lot of your games have this kind of
core kind of like Ryu time. I inspired ice mechanic that use
through over arms, through red, giant, through and b-cycle
chronicled a connection plus is you're currently funny
Kickstarter right now. It's got 19 days left.
It's a little different. What would you like to say
about? Yeah.
Would you like to say A about that.
What about Connor? Go connection plus it's still
funny right now. What do I say about Chronicle
connection? Plus it started off as an April
Fool's joke of like 2020 or 2021, but I was just like, oh,
I'm making this dating Sim and people were, like I actually
want this, I was like oh do you? Because don't tempt me, I will
make it happen. So, Chronicle connection plus is
a solo tabletop RPG solo Journey Journaling, dating Sim lot of
words, shoved in there. And I felt like it was such a
gimmick that people would either love it or hate it.
And I've seen both and it's just kind of one of those things
where it's like, I've been wanting to get more experimental
with what I do lately. Where, you know, I even have
the, you know, physical addition here right now that don't
already problems but we're ironing them out and it just is
what it is, you know? I mean it, It's exactly what the
title says. It's the system is based off of.
I don't know if you've heard of it but plot armor ABS.
Now plot armor is a solo journaling Met game.
Where, you know, I thought you were just eating like a term
plot armor but no, no, no, no. The game is called plot armor
and so it's, it's a game where you kind of Journal out these 24
episodes of like a mecha anime and I was just like this would
be fantastic if I tweaked it. So I added on a couple layers,
remove some things and inserted my own and made it into a dating
Sim. So I'm on it already.
Okay, that's the game. So it's it is what it is, you
know, I mean, it's not something I'm like is super cute, it's
definitely different. I appreciate your compliments on
it, but I never expected it to, you know.
Get the traction that say over arms were a giant or empty cycle
did. But it was certainly something
where I'm just like, I want to experiment a bit.
I want to see how this does and I gave it a little bit of a
comb-over with the plus version and because you can buy
Chronicle connection right now actually but Chronicle
connection plus has a lot more content to it a lot more rules,
different things that you can insert into your games.
And genuinely I don't feel Embarrassed about it.
Like, of course it's kind of weird to be like yeah I made I
made like a berserk game. I made a joke game and also like
here's a dating soon. So it's only funny when you put
it in that context, I'll standing alone.
If you've been lucky I made like a dating Sim solo teacher every
gym like right, right. Right.
That's a massively popular genre of game.
Yes. But the most is what it means.
You can Donovan in this number sir.
Maybe that's a little too raw for this but now I mean it's
just one of those things where it's like I feel like if I was
diving into the realm of solo tabletop RPGs and I enjoyed like
the dating Sim aspect of like Persona 5 or like Harvest.
Yeah or something like that that you could you can genuinely
create like really cool stories out of it rather than just being
Like the, how do I put this? You know, like the back don't
know how to word this, but the very degenerate nature of a lot
of dating games, right? So I mean you could do that with
it. The less wholesome side like I
genuinely like Nice Slice of Life story with it, so it's fun.
It's certainly fun for me. It's definitely a lesson and it
Comes at a time where like social media is collapsing, ads,
have failed, you know, things like that.
But it's also such a niche thing to come out with that.
I don't blame myself or the game.
For its listen, we got an answer MMA game coming next and then
we're good. It's like, oh, it's a dating Sim
that you sit down with a journal and write by yourself.
It's like, if you, if you told me about this five years ago,
I'd be like what is wrong with you?
82 backers. So like, you know, you're above
you've overshot your target now it's fully funded.
So you're like is that, you know, it's also kind of sad
though because I want to do like the stretch goals with this.
Like I really do right this stuff but it's, it's not looking
good right now, boys. This 19 days left. 19 days, left
on Daisy. Has left?
Yeah, you stole my hit those. You know I hope I mean God Bless
but maybe McDonald's or listening on the podcast or
watching on YouTube. Go check out Colonel go
connection plus it is not a very expensive project whatsoever.
I think the prices are the same as empty cycle.
Yeah. So it's not, I mean, I
definitely went for the like, the whole shebang, right?
So I 20 bucks for a hardcover. I'll fuck you bought it.
Yeah, I think he left. Edition hardcover is going to
look very spicy when it comes out.
So that pick them, you know, I got to have the limited edition,
I don't even know. I don't think it's, I don't, I
don't really know how to feel about it.
Like, I know how I feel about it, but I don't know how others
would feel about it, you know, it's just such an odd little
project that I had to do it. Honestly, good on you.
I you know, we're gonna get it'll be, it'll be good.
That'll be the weirdest thing I put out probably keep doing
weird show. No, it's okay.
Yeah we can go as far as allows and we can actually edit a
podcast in the future so get weird.
Maybe in two years from now you can date the people from a red
giant Aren't you can date them? What are the, is it a?
Is it eight Kings? Is that what I'm thinking of 13
Kings? Yeah, 13 calls.
And there's I know there were a lot of them.
Yeah. But that'll be nice to meet you
die immediately if you're within like a mile of them.
Right. So it's more than a mile.
Yeah yeah, ridiculous. So speaking of the future and
and the weird stuff you're going to do, I think we touched on the
future a little For this is a project that I mean, empty cycle
is done, it is in our hands. We're going to talk about it
here shortly. Ron Paul connection is funding
right now. Can you talk about like the very
the next thing that's going to be hitting Kickstarter being
able to enjoy our hands? Okay.
Hopefully the next thing to hit Kickstarter is going to be a
little project called gimmick zero.
That's kind of like openly been in development hell because it's
just taken so long. It's 143 Pages as We sit here
and talk about it and it's kind of inspired by like Mega Man,
Zero Evan Galleon which we were talking about before this call
things like that were, essentially you have these
things called gimmicks that are these robots that have been
designed to fight against these things called aberrations.
But sometimes the gimmicks malfunction.
And so you are you, the player character are these things
called Weapons and your job is to take down the malfunction and
gimmicks to kind of make sure that the companies that own
these gimmicks. Don't get a bad rep or there's
not like a massacre or something like that.
So, that's going to be the next project we have QuickStart rules
for. We have tons of press releases
via geek native and Icebreaker about that.
Just didn't come out is, as quick as I wanted it to
actually, that was supposed to be the second game before red
giant. That just it got bigger and
bigger and bigger, you know, when I make these games like
Chronicle connection was supposed to be like 10 pages.
Like, you know, so I sit here and I'm like, oh yeah, I'll make
a little game. I'll put it out and then I'm
sitting here for a month. Six months a year, two years
and, you know, eventually I have a game that people want to play
but gimmick zero, I feel like has a lot of legs.
Now, it has an incredible interior design now and you can
see some of that on this chord. I've also tweeted about it in
the past but hopefully that's the next thing coming out beyond
that. There's a few other projects
that I'm working on like the Star Wars Final Fantasy and
Aspired game that also features art from the same Artist as
empty cycle. Nice, which I have high orchids
game. I mean, with that game, I found
it. Thank you.
I didn't I didn't draw it, but thank you.
But we are hoping to like bust out like GM screens, a deck of
cards for that game. Like it's going to be the most
embarrassing thing. Okay.
That's that's my Make It or Break It game.
I hope it does. Well, I'm not going to tell you
the title of it but I have so much work to do on it.
You have no idea but just hoping for the best there and then we
have other games coming out like I've talked before previously.
I've been very open about this where I've wanted to create a
Cardcaptor Sakura game, nice, like all of the rules, and
things like that, written out for at this point.
But it's, you know, just one of those things that you have to
have time to work on. So hopefully that will be
something that we pivot to. This is the old one and that's
a, that's a classic. I feel like there's a lot of
people if I said, Cardcaptor Sakura be like, I don't know
what that is. Oh, I love it.
Are You The Boss? Love that Series.
Yeah, absolutely. They rebooted.
I think a while back did. Yeah, I didn't see they have a
sequel to the original. Cardcaptor Sakura clear card
okay. Which has like an entirely
different set of cards which is really good.
And it carries more of like the modern clamp style and I think
they may have rebooted the series as a whole but don't
quote me on that because that's your respect for me for Now I'm
like fuck, yeah, there's that. Have you guys ever heard of a
game called disaster report? It sounds familiar, but I can't
think of anything. So it's like it's a jrpg.
I don't even know if you'd call it a jrpg but it's a Japanese
game where you play as a reporter and you're in Japan.
And the world is basically ending like this huge
catastrophe is happening. And I've been wanting to make a
game based off that. And I have like a pretty clear
system of it. But I don't know when that will
come out. This may be a thing where I'm
like in three months like oh yeah, by the way, here's this.
Or maybe a thing in two years or I'm like hey remember that one
interview I did with the weekly scroll.
It's out now. So do you like?
So when you're making these games do you like run a bunch of
these like with your own little group before you put them out?
No, not at all. I paced around this table behind
me. Four nights upon nights upon
weeks upon months and then I go. Wow, this is really good.
Do you guys want to play this with me and they go?
Wow, that was really fun. I go.
Cool. I'm going to make it so that's
basically my process sometimes I you know, I definitely play test
things but sometimes it has more or less if people have a fun
time for me, you know, if I play like four games of it and people
have a fun time. That's good enough for me.
Yeah. Absolutely.
You know because at the end of the day we're all playing
imagination with numbers that are tied to the Schultz and if
that's fun, then it works, you know.
I've played many games where I'm just like, if I were to really
like min-max, this it would be bullshit.
This game wouldn't be fun. I would I would destroy
everything that comes my way. Yeah, that's not the spirit of
the game, you know. So I think people need to quit
looking at like really balancing the game and more making the
game fun. If that makes sense.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, but that means then we
also have to like retrain and entire, you know, section of the
TT. Every industry that is both in
that is encouraged by the most popular system out there.
The min/max, your bullshit, win everything in Allen balance to
me whenever you like a fucking hero, right?
I mean, I think that's where that, that's, that's a very
strong subject for me, because I feel like that's kind of the
goal of my games, because I don't reach out to you going.
Hey, this is a tabletop RPG. I say, hey, this is a game
inspired by this stuff that you might like, right?
And it pulls you into tabletop RPGs because I don't want people
like myself where I like I got in the D&D.
Like I never read these fucking books like I sat there and had a
friend explained it to me and I'm like this sucks like I don't
want to fucking cast magic Missile.
I don't want to sit here and fucking calculate against my
armor class. This is dumb, why don't we play
something? That is much faster.
Like, you know, of course, I've had fun with you.
ND, right? I'm going to have people
knocking down my fucking door. Being like, oh, you don't like
D&D. Listen.
And if that was the case, then I my door would be fucking blown
off the head and gas, you know, after well, you please like the
prize man. But, but at the same time it's
like, It's like I want something fun that I can play with my
friends. You know something that like in
Captain capsule eats this theme this atmosphere and does does it
right? You know like recently I saw a
conversation in my own Discord where somebody was like I want
to use d and e 5e to play Guilty Gear. and I was just like, how
are you gonna do that? Like, what about that makes you
think that you can do it, you know, and like no shade to them
by any means? No.
You know, I don't I don't want
to talk them down because they're, they're clearly like a
little bit new to like tabletop RPGs or their friend group might
be, right. And that's just so much, like
obvious thing that they would they would use to run it, but at
the same time it's like what about that?
Lands itself to that. Yeah.
Are you going to do Roman cancels.
Indian d5e, right? So it's it, but there are
systems out there that do it like Shinobi gummy or fight and
things like that, that do that kind of thing.
And I want my games to be that kind of pillar of salt, like
automation towards like what you want to do.
Yeah, right. So that's that's where I'm at
with it because for my games, I feel like I've pulled a lot of
people in who wouldn't otherwise be able?
The tabletop RPGs who are finding out that it's like oh I
can just make a JoJo's character and I can do this or I can just
like come up with these different exchanges and hand
them off to like my players and red giant and have a good time.
Like I can read this book and half a day and play it, you
know, in the evening. Yeah, so that's kind of my aim.
That's kind of my goal overall is to steal from Wizards of the
Coast and a sense and just be like your game isn't bad, but
But there I don't want people being like, oh, you want to play
One Piece? Well, here's this 5e hack that
you can you know, play one piece in or here's like Cowboy Bebop
and 5e, where it does, it just doesn't make sense at all.
I mean, yeah, you know, the weekly we can agree to disagree
that he sucks especially now. Um, but that's one thing that I
will say that I do love about your games is that and we've
talked about this a lot like we're getting older and I To
read a 600 fucking page rule book.
And I don't want the fucking like, I don't need like
constitutionalism in my game or I have to, like, get a fucking
group of people together to, like, you know, figure out what
this will actually fucking means.
I want straightforward, I want easy to explain.
I want to be able to have this game, read this book, and then
be able to put this down and explain it to somebody else in
that order. Having read through it one time
and I will say with your games it is very easy to do that, you
know? And I feel like Kim disciples
even In like sleeker than like red giant is so lightweight.
Yeah, and it's exactly what I'm fucking looking for and that's
one of the reasons we love your content and look forward to your
time content coming out is because the themes are fantastic
because a lot of it is like like if you if you haven't watched
berserk at all you will still love red giant.
Like if you haven't ever seen Fooly Cooly which not enough
people have. I honestly think you can play
this game and have a great fucking time.
You don't need the the eye Pee behind it and let all the
fucking bullshit to really enjoy it.
But if you have watched berserk or you have what truly Cooley,
you're going to get this extra layer.
Where you go, like this is just it's done, really?
Really? Well it's inspired by but not
emulating, you know? And that's, that's the things
that I really enjoy about your game.
The most I think is I've well, except for, you know, JoJo, part
2 on. I've seen all these things, I
love all these things. You did a great job of bringing
them to the table in a way. It is inspired by without
copying in a system that super easy to run.
And you know, as I said I'm excited, you know, even for
Chronicles connection plus to see what you do in the future
and to continue to keep playing your games.
It's thumbs up. Yeah, thank you.
I definitely appreciate that. And I think that you probably
conveyed that in a way that I'm not able to, which I definitely
appreciate because it's like Wow, you really did that very
well, thank you. You get work with red giant.
Especially I feel like if you come into it, you know, and you
look at that kind of game, it's like, you don't really have to
know, berserk. You don't have to know, Vampire
Hunter D, you don't know, you really don't think about that.
It's just, it is a game that stands on its own two legs.
But if you do enjoy those, you know, this is what it is.
I mean, I recently saw a Reddit thread where somebody was like,
oh well, if you don't want to, you know, If you have a game
that's inspired by something, you can, you can kind of skirt
that by calling it, like, a Naman story or over arms, like
they have and things like that. But it's like, my my goal is not
to emulate. The genre necessarily, I mean,
of course, it's in there, but it's also to provide an Avenue
for people who don't have that now, right?
Because I mean, like, looking at over arms or something like
that, you could apply that to Hunter Hunter, you could apply
that to Fates. Stay night or any of the Fate
genre, several other games with, you know, berserk, it's like or
not for certain that's not my game red giant.
You could apply that to like Vinland Saga or Vagabond or
things like that, you know. And it's, it's or even just your
own original storyline, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't
matter at all. Yeah.
And I think that's perfect way to do it.
It's like inspired by vinod emulating and then opens the
door for a lot more stuff. So, It's like I said, super
looking forward to all of your content going forward.
You know, you're always going to have like a limited edition
backer. Yeah.
At least seriously between both of us, like, you'll always have
at least two limited edition at least, you know, I feel so good.
Honestly, I can't. I never imagined.
I was in that kind of position, but thank you both, for for, as
we hop into tearing this place apart.
Let's see here. It's like what the fuck is the
epoch? Agency.
But but yeah, so we're so we already talked about products
and action plus 19 days left on Kickstarter, go check that out.
Just search chronicling action, Plus or mortgages Studio on
Kickstarter. Where can people find your other
stuff? Like, where everything is at
rookie Chet studio. If you if you Google us you will
find us on Twitter Instagram, Facebook, YouTube.
Tube, which I have severely lacked on.
But if you have a favor, even Tick Tock, I mean, I want to
tick tock now, which is totally out of my league, but I'm
trying. Hey, if you have a network, look
me up. There were also on Mastodon of
Twitter is not your thing. Probably going to be on hive
soon, depending on if that survives, I don't know.
Now, is that weird time for social media?
So it's very turbulent. So so you have all of them with
everyone. It's just rookie Jets to
your.com, right? You have like just a website,
you can go to Ricky jet.com, you can get a rookie jet studio.com,
we have both and you'll find everything there.
Everything like I like the Press kits for all your past games.
Like are like all sorts of stuff all over the website merch store
like everything. Yeah, we do it on the porch, so
early to looks great. Yeah looks it's a very good
website. I am a web designer by by trade.
But my exact look at it on mobile right now.
I've got it. I have some work to do but yeah,
thank you, thank you. That's very kind of you guys but
yeah, I mean definitely anywhere that you want to follow me on
social media. I would be very happy if you
want to follow me on social media and so highly recommend
follow follow this person, check out their website, check out
their games, you know just follow them on Kickstarter to
actually get the reviews and back one and obviously
kick-starts be the best forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We are going to hop into empty cycle right now.
So if you are listening in podcast land, that will be our
next episode. But if you're here in the chat
with us, we are going to switch to a BRB real quick and then we
will be back to review MD cycle. Cory, it has been fantastic.
It's been a long time coming. So happy to be here with you
guys. Yeah, because like I said, I
love your guys's content. Anybody who's watching, you
should immediately subscribe. You guys do something.
Around very concise content, very brutal content as well.
I just very open, I mean, genuinely very open where it's
like if you don't like something about this, you don't like it.
If you love something about it, you go into such a detail.
It's fantastic. I love it.
Thank you so much, appreciate that.
Yeah, absolutely. So again we will be right back
or we will be here for the next episode.
So see you in just a moment.