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Hello and welcome to the Weekly 
Scroll Podcast. 

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My name is Ryan. 
And I'm two escaping psychics in

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the trench coat. 
And joining us today, we have 

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Logan Dean. 
How's it going today, Logan? 

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What's up, dude? 
Good, I guess. 

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Yeah, that's fine. 
Everything's fine. 

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Right. 
Everything's just wonderful. 

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The world's completely fine. 
Everything's good. 

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We're every. 
We're gravy. 

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Yeah, I'm 2 1/2 miles 
underground. 

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Here we go. 
Perfect. 

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Like one of those buggers from 
Lost. 

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There you go. 
I never watched Lost. 

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I'm glad I hit. 
A little button every time the 

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number gets too low so it flips 
back up, you know? 

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So. 
So for those out there that 

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might not know who the heck 
Logan Dean is, who the heck is 

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Logan Dean? 
Oh, I'm Logan. 

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That's me. 
I don't even know what I do 

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anymore, honestly. 
Like I'm still making stuff, but

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mostly I'm just doing 
contracting. 

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So like, I do a lot of 
Kickstarter coordination, 

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Chinese manufacturing, shipping,
freight, logistics. 

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I'm like the guy who does all 
the stuff nobody wants to do 

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anymore. 
So somebody said I was like a 

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gunslinger the other day and I 
thought that was pretty cool. 

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I've been using the term Soldier
of Fortune for a while. 

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I mean, it's going to get to 
that point where you're 

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literally going to be like 
taking shipments with 

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helicopters, like disguised as 
stuff just to get books into the

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country. 
The amount of Kickstarter 

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backers who have straight up 
proposed smuggling to me as an 

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alternative to getting their 
their fledges is a non 0 number.

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Yeah, and I have to be like, I 
appreciate your your idea. 

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However these are crimes. 
That's barely a federal crime. 

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I was going. 
To say, you know, there's a lot 

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of crimes happening that aren't 
being prosecuted right now. 

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So, you know, we're ready. 
Yeah. 

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I, me and Adam Bass are going to
go in on like a single engine 

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Cessna and start running games 
like 100 like from the Canadian 

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border, Indian Arbor area for 
sure there. 

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We go, yeah, that'd be. 
The best way to do it? 

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Just brush the cocaine. 
It's like tightly wrapped zenes,

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you know? 
Yeah, we're bringing in like eat

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the rake. 
Hell yeah. 

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Yeah, the the ice agents are 
just like slicing up with a 

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knife and be like, this is the 
Andy shit. 

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Pulling out the dice and 
sniffing Yeah. 

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And. 
How that's real like? 

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We're getting, we're getting to 
that point. 

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I mean, knowledge is power, you 
know, and, and you also made the

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company and all the, the, the 
stuff from the company. 

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Yeah, that was like 5 years ago 
now. 

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We did company, we being me 
alone in my house. 

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The Royal we. 
The Royal we working on updating

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company actually just had a 
meeting with Alex Mitchell last 

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week to finish up some rec 
league art and then like get 

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into what we want to do for like
an actual 1st edition because 

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everything's been in beta for 
five years and I've been busy. 

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Very mother ship of you. 
Yeah, I wrote all those, all 

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these. 
Oh, you got one of those? 

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You got one of the, the, the, 
the Gray, the, the special 

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edition ones. 
Yeah. 

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Chase Cycurs Yeah, Yeah. 
And then I only got this because

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of you the the original company 
print. 

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Is that the one you bought on 
Noble night when I spotted it? 

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Yeah, somebody. 
I've never had my stuff sold 

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into resale it. 
Was great. 

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I was looking for it forever and
I had told Logan about it 

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because it was on my list of 
like my grow list. 

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And then I just get this message
randomly just like, hey, they 

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have one on open light. 
I was going to grab it and I was

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like, oh, that's cool. 
And and you're like, but if you 

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really want it, I was like, yes,
I do. 

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I really want it. 
So I got it. 

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So this is an original the 
company print and as well as the

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cards and everything. 
You were going to buy back a 

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copy of your own game from. 
I got to get it out of 

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circulation like it's, it's the 
ideal distribution platform is 

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just leaving stuff in like white
card, like wet cardboard boxes 

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in the woods. 
And I'm just, I'm just trying to

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get back to that. 
Yeah, exactly. 

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Yeah. 
A paper bag and a bus station 

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that. 
Yeah, do you like what? 

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Was that was it geocaching? 
Yeah, geocaching. 

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People still do with that. 
No. 

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Yeah, people still geocache. 
It's not like it did like. 2008 

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though you. 
Know not like when it was a fad,

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of course. 
Not like it's just probably back

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to the levels before it was a 
fad. 

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Some diehards. 
There's a guy in my neighborhood

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who's always metal detecting the
same park and I'm like bro, 

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haven't you done it? 
He's got a system. 

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OK, he's working a grid. 
It's a. 

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Very no. 
He is working a grid. 

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Yeah, but I'm like, what are you
looking for? 

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The baseball field. 
Hey, people, people, people drop

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wedding rings and shit all the 
time, you know? 

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People drop shit all the time. 
You're right, yeah. 

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You'll get 110th of what you 
bought it for. 

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The second it leaves the store, 
but you know that's the diamond 

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market. 
I mean, it's a, it's definitely 

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retirement plan. 
Yeah, sure. 

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I mean, it's retiring. 
That's going to exist. 

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It's. 
Got a It's got, I think, more 

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stability than a job I. 
Mean yeah my job currently and 

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why I can't leave so I'll just 
be depressed until I die Is it 

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has a pension plan in early 
retirement so I only have to 

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work for 17 more years. 
That's actually not that bad. 

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That's pretty good actually. 
And then I get to retire with 

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75% of my health insurance 
covered in a pension. 

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So. 
That's nice, yeah. 

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See if we make it 17 years, 
let's see if yeah, we'll get 

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there. 
No, we won't. 

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I doubt it. 
We'll see. 

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So for those who haven't 
encountered the company, what, 

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what's the company? 
Because, you know, megacore and 

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and a lot of things you do all 
fit under this kind of same 

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umbrella. 
So what? 

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What? 
What's that? 

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Umbrella. 
Oh yeah. 

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So I started Megacorp in 2019, 
2018-2019 to make the company. 

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But the company, the original 
game is about private emergency 

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response teams going to garbage 
missions to save their, their 

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employers like proprietary 
assets. 

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So it's like the umbrella 
corporation when they send in 

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those SWAT teams to like kill 
everybody and steal the T virus.

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That's who you're playing, the 
core, the good guys, protecting 

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company assets. 
If you're watching Alien Earth, 

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there's a lot of that going on 
in there, yeah. 

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Corporate interests are or. 
Peak the the core, I guess like 

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feel of the game is 
interpersonal conflict that I 

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tried to recreate within the 
players. 

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So each one of the roles, which 
are just careers, the jobs has a

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different goal that directly 
conflicts with another career 

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school. 
So the idea is to create 

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interpersonal conflict without 
like naturally with a slight 

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mechanical edge, without the GM 
being like, you guys hate each 

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other because everything is on a
timer. 

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Like you're always running out 
of time and people have stuff to

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do with that kind of conflicts 
with everybody else's plan. 

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And then it tends to get a 
little chaotic. 

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The goal was for me, as a person
who runs games all the time, to 

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do as little work as possible to
create tension. 

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An admirable goal. 
Yeah. 

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I'm lazy. 
So like, the company missions 

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tend to be pretty cut and dry, 
pretty simple stuff. 

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But everybody's always fighting 
in the middle of them. 

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So they take hours and hours 
because everybody's arguing. 

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And then I just, like, go get a 
drink or something. 

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Hell yeah. 
But by developing that, I did a 

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lot of research into corporate 
fuckery. 

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And it's really hard to write 
speculative fiction right now 

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because the universe keeps 
scooping me like, oh boy. 

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Like the guy running the CD, 
like the Health Administration 

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does a worm in his brain. 
Like, I can't write that. 

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Nobody would buy that. 
But since then I've kind of 

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worked all of the corpo garbage 
into like everything I wrote 

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because I tried to make like a 
kind of connective tissue 

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between everything. 
So the main company in the 

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company is Wuhan Baxter, which 
is this big multinational 

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conglomerate that's legally 
distinct from Wayla Dutani. 

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It's your like Wayla Dutani. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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And then there's a bunch of 
other like subsidiaries that put

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in all the stuff like Nobarium 
is in the company and in Sykers.

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And Sykers is a, it's a stand 
alone game, but it it was 

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developed as kind of an add on 
to the company. 

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So those psychic power rules, 
you can staple those to company 

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characters. 
And I think in the reprint we're

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actually just going to fold 
Sykers into the book. 

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Nice. 
Because it it really fits, it 

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nests in really nice. 
The company WB exists in 

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Triangle Agency now, which is 
great because I was, I helped 

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produce Triangle Agency and I 
wrote on the vault. 

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So I've made Caleb put WB in 
there. 

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So now my company is an enemy of
Triangle Agency. 

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We've established like a whole 
Canon behind it. 

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So that's fun. 
It's just nice to grow it out. 

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And then like it's a little 
Easter egg and everything. 

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Like I think yeah, Baxter Co-op 
is in didn't fuck Cleveland. 

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I'm sure there's some company 
reference in metro skate. 

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I just don't remember what it 
is, but I try to put it in 

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everything just because I think 
that's fun. 

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And I love I love the Dark Tower
by Stephen King. 

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It's one of the it's one of the 
books I think he did a good job 

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on and he's always seeding that 
shit in like all his other 

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books, which is hit or miss. 
But like I love that shared 

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universe like author mind palace
garbage. 

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Are you? 
Are you in any of your games? 

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Can we meet you? 
I'm not in any of my games. 

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Oh wait, that's not true. 
I think I'm the head of Novarium

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Pharmaceutical actually. 
Like according to psychers, I'm 

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in a bunch of liminal horror 
games. 

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They cause goblin archives. 
Like put me in a bunch of them. 

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So I'm in like the mall and 
like, I think I'm in Hunger 

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Hollow. 
That's pretty funny. 

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Yeah, I mean, if you're going to
make stuff like, why wouldn't 

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you just do shit like that? 
That'd be awesome. 

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00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:05,600
Why not? 
Yeah, I think it's. 

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00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:10,000
Funny, I mean, if you can meet 
Adam or Adam is in canonically 

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he's in cyber metal 2012. 
Like why wouldn't you just put 

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that like specifically all the 
timeline like right before 

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Reagan dies is like Adam S is 
born. 

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00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:23,240
So just as important, you know. 
It's like meeting Hideo Kojima 

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in Cyberpunk 2077 and then he's 
just hanging out and you're 

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00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:28,560
like, what are you doing? 
Like he's not even going. 

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00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:34,880
To care solid, you know, Yeah. 
Yeah, no, I, I, I'm, I'm having 

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fun. 
And now that writing stuff and 

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producing stuff for Mega Corp is
kind of a back burner thing, 

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it's just become like, what can 
I make to get my head into a 

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space that's not like work? 
So yeah, since I left my big boy

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00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,680
publishing job, I've mostly been
doing a lot of, like I said, 

213
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,120
kind of freelance work, 
mercenary work, a lot of cool 

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00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:05,240
stuff. 
Triangle Agency. 

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00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,240
Just want a bunch from words. 
That was really cool. 

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I've been working a lot with 
Tyler Kramer and over at 

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Possible Worlds to develop out a
lot of. 

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We got a lot of cool projects 
coming up. 

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We turned and burned a 
Kickstarter in 52 days. 

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00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:22,920
Can't actually recommend doing 
that if you value your life and 

221
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,280
health, but we did it. 
We put out Better, Better 

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00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,040
strangers and tackle box. 
The two card games, yeah, yeah, 

223
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:32,160
yeah. 
I think those have a gym con. 

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00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,360
Yeah, those are good. 
Yeah, those are moving really 

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00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:35,680
fast. 
People really like those. 

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00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:41,160
We got a new campaign coming out
next month with Megan Cross, 

227
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,880
James D'amato and Tyler's games 
Homecoming. 

228
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,480
I always want to say Koreans 
Clearwater Provable, but it's 

229
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,680
called Cosmic Century Nights and
Chuck. 

230
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,760
So we're doing a three-game 
Kickstarter where if you buy the

231
00:12:57,880 --> 00:12:59,440
1st 2, you get the third one for
free. 

232
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:04,200
A little a little Maple game. 
And that's all building out to 

233
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,440
Realis, which is Austin Walker's
big opus. 

234
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,160
And we're we're really excited 
about doing that next year. 

235
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,680
So that's been a really 
interesting process because you 

236
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:19,800
know, Tyler was just doing stuff
by himself for years and years 

237
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,240
and years. 
We started around the same time,

238
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,400
like Tyler and I did the inquest
in 2020, like the same time, 

239
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,640
like he did Feather Beacon Bone 
and I did the company. 

240
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,640
So we've been kind of 
contemporaries for a long time. 

241
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,160
And when I put out a call that I
was looking to help people do 

242
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,640
more production work, keep baby 
up and here we are. 

243
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,680
And so it's been fun to help 
Tyler like grow possible worlds 

244
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:43,720
from like just a one man show 
into like a full on publishing 

245
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,640
company. 
Yeah, yeah, we've talked to. 

246
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,240
Tyler on the show What My brain 
is breaking. 

247
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,880
That's fine. 
For when we had Tyler on, it was

248
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,680
the game where they did like the
art mixed with the narrative 

249
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,920
with the the people traveling 
and you could stop whenever you 

250
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,240
wanted. 
What am I talking about? 

251
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,920
Details of our escape. 
Yes, details of our escape. 

252
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,120
Yes, Tyler was on to talk about 
that. 

253
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:09,280
I don't know what episode that 
was. 

254
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:10,440
We have a list of running 
though. 

255
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,720
If you do we, we have reviewed a
bunch of your games and because 

256
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,920
Hunter did the work, I want to 
say it the company was episode 

257
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,600
104. 
Cykers is episode 133. 

258
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:28,840
So that was only about 170 to 
150 episodes ago episode. 

259
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,320
Was 137. 
Oh, so right after we did 

260
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:33,680
Cykers. 
So there you go. 

261
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,080
If you want to, if you want to 
hear more about Cykers or the 

262
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,400
company or hear from Tyler 
Crumrine, you can listen to 

263
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,000
those. 
Here we go. 

264
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,640
Now are is the company in Rec 
League? 

265
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:51,160
Yeah, absolutely. 
Yeah, got a, got a Segway, got a

266
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,680
transition, you know. 
Yeah. 

267
00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,360
So yeah, let's talk about right 
click. 

268
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,160
Since what I used to do was 
party games and card games for 

269
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:05,320
bigger publishers and I kind of 
got pretty good at making card 

270
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,080
games, like doing layout for 
manufacturing. 

271
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,160
I'm proofing all that stuff. 
Been doing it for a while now. 

272
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,640
So in my what what counts is 
spare time. 

273
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:21,320
I have been developing this game
rec league for about 3 years 

274
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,960
actually. 
Yeah, it's kind of weird. 

275
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,800
It's I don't Full disclosure, I 
do not want to make a trading 

276
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,600
card game. 
Like it is too much work and it 

277
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,800
takes too long. 
I am just saddled with glorious 

278
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,360
purpose on this one. 
So like, of course, it's kind of

279
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,440
this thing that has been 
needling into my brain over and 

280
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,360
over and over again. 
And I've been slowly kind of 

281
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,160
tinkering with it. 
And then one day I had like a 

282
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,080
game and I had to now I got to 
finish it because if I don't, 

283
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,480
I'm going to look like an idiot 
because I've been talking about 

284
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:02,200
it for two years and I think 
it's good. 

285
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,920
Which is honestly one like I 
never say that about stuff I 

286
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:12,200
write. 
So like wild, but it's the the 

287
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,800
conceit is that it's a card game
that we developed in 1998 and 

288
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:20,680
then subsequently lost. 
So it's from the like heyday of 

289
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:22,440
like the Deckmaster games from 
Wattsy. 

290
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,160
I've been, I've been designing 
in like a what if 911 never 

291
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,600
happened type of space, which is
really interesting because I've 

292
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,040
been getting real into how cool 
that world would be. 

293
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,160
Like what if Al Gore won the 
2000 election? 

294
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,680
We'd all be like fucking 
billionaires in space hanging 

295
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:47,120
out drinking sweet tea. 
And then I come back to reality.

296
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:48,240
I'm like, oh man, this is 
fucking sad. 

297
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,840
But the I I took a bunch of 
stuff from card games I love. 

298
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,840
The biggest one is Magic because
it's like the biggest card game 

299
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,120
in the world. 
I play a lot of commander. 

300
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,880
So the central kind of selling 
point is to give people a 

301
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,560
commander type experience 
without let having them have to 

302
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,839
interact with the Wattsy War 
machine. 

303
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,440
So like, 'cause that's obtuse 
and like ridiculous and you have

304
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,480
to spend a ton of money just to 
be able to like actually play. 

305
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,079
So how do we create a type of 
experience like that without 

306
00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:26,839
people spending much money? 
I also love Net Runner like so, 

307
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,080
so, so much. 
And you know, like that runner's

308
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,440
been the most cancelled card 
game in history. 

309
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,480
This has been canceled twice and
it's still going because fans 

310
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:41,240
are running it. 
And then there's a there's some 

311
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:50,760
Digimon in there a little bit 
and quite a bit of just I played

312
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,280
a lot of Wipeout Wipey Audi on 
the PlayStation one. 

313
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,480
It's a racing game in the future
where you have these hovercraft 

314
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,760
racers and everything is like 
corporate sponsored and it's got

315
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:07,560
that like late 90s, like 
Japanese futurism type of feel 

316
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,400
wonderful game. 
So a lot of the design elements 

317
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,560
came from that. 
And then Mex, because MEX are 

318
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:19,000
cool and, and Evergreen and 
everybody likes MEX. 

319
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,520
So the you know, the, the 
elevator pitches, it's MEC, 

320
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:28,440
NASCAR, it's all competitive. 
It's all like blood bowl or like

321
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,480
roller drone or like robot 
jocks. 

322
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:38,120
So we're it's it's it's all kind
of tongue in cheek while also 

323
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:41,840
being extremely violent because 
I, I'm a big fan of violence. 

324
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:47,120
I think it's cool to watch and 
entertaining and most of these 

325
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:51,640
games just violent simulators. 
So that's fun, but yeah, no, 

326
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,240
like I've been having a lot of 
fun with it. 

327
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,520
I wanted to figure out how to 
make a deck building game, like 

328
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,880
a construction game without 
having to sit with hundreds of 

329
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,840
cards and sort them out and like
building it out. 

330
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,200
So like the actual deck building
is super fast. 

331
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,840
All the rules are pretty cut and
dry. 

332
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,600
Like it's turn based. 
You're building up energy like 

333
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,800
Hearthstone instead of mana. 
I mean, I have it set to be 

334
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:19,920
switched. 
I'm sorry, I'm not looking. 

335
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,320
Look at. 
That oh, so this is my desk. 

336
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,000
I cleaned it off for you. 
You're very welcome. 

337
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:33,240
So Rec League plays in turns, 
you know, like a game. 

338
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,560
It's crazy. 
But the first thing you do is 

339
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,480
you build a Mac and the way you 
do that is you choose A-frame, 

340
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,440
which is kind of like your, 
that's your Mac, your frame, 

341
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,080
your access and you corporate 
sponsor here. 

342
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:47,880
We'll go with WB because we love
WB. 

343
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,760
And that becomes your commander 
type of area, right? 

344
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,160
Like these two things have 
different powers. 

345
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:59,000
Each mech has 2 powers assigned 
to it as well as a structure 

346
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,640
which is your HP and a heat cap,
which is the capacity of your 

347
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,160
heat. 
The corporate sponsor has a, a 

348
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:12,320
kind of a meta breaking rule. 
So I, I play a lot of board 

349
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,600
games. 
So like there's a lot of like 

350
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,160
mechanical stuff I really like 
from other stuff kind of pulled 

351
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,200
in. 
And this creates kind of your 

352
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:24,560
course like engine. 
From there you put your systems 

353
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,680
in and each system is consisting
of five cards. 

354
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:34,880
So like this is the SMG system. 
Each card has cost and energy 

355
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,200
cost and an effect that it does 
either damage or some kind of 

356
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,160
like persistent effect. 
But you choose six of these with

357
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,520
five card suites to create a 30 
card deck. 

358
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,400
So I don't know why. 
I'm sure you know what, 2 

359
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,800
cameras. 
All right, so instead of 

360
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,960
choosing 100 cards for commander
deck, you're really just 

361
00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:02,560
choosing 8 things. 
The system, or I'm sorry, the 

362
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,160
core frame, the sponsor, and 
then six systems. 

363
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:07,920
There's three different kinds of
systems. 

364
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:13,720
Reds are weapon systems, Blues 
are primary systems and greens 

365
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,240
are auxiliary system. 
So you can have like, you know, 

366
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,600
like guns or swords and then you
have like, oh, these are my 

367
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,560
firewalls and my defensive 
systems and then you have 

368
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,720
missiles or Shields and stuff 
like that. 

369
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,640
These are very. 
Nice looking cards by the way. 

370
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:37,560
Thanks, I am a professional. 
Yeah, if it keep repeating now 

371
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,960
it makes it true, you know. 
Yeah, so I did all the layout of

372
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,440
the cards. 
I did everything but the art on 

373
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,480
the system cards, actually did 
all the Mac art, and then all 

374
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,200
the Mac backgrounds are. 
That's just World War 2 combat 

375
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,800
photography from the National 
Archive, because that's cool. 

376
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,560
Public domain. 
All the iconography is public 

377
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,480
domain shipping iconography. 
So it's just the same symbols 

378
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,400
you see on like shipping boxes. 
That's why structure became a 

379
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,160
broken wine glass. 
And like it's, it's like, it 

380
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,200
really kind of like, it's the 
weirdest one, but it fits. 

381
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,680
So yeah, after you create your 
deck, you shuffle that up and 

382
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,200
you start to play. 
This card is the pilot 

383
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:20,680
interface. 
It's where you keep track of all

384
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,640
your resources. 
This is kind of my favorite part

385
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,880
of the game because it creates a
sort of personal resource 

386
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,560
management game that you have to
play in order to actually be 

387
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,760
able to fight, sort of like 
piloting a mech. 

388
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:38,480
So each turn your energy goes up
by 1, which allows you to play 

389
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,240
cards for their energy cost, but
that one's free, but this one's 

390
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,080
one that goes down. 
At any point you can increase 

391
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,640
your heat to put more energy 
into your pool. 

392
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,120
So at the beginning of your 
first turn you really only you 

393
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:56,400
have one energy, but you can go 
up as much as you want if you 

394
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,600
want to push your luck. 
Heat can be reduced by either 

395
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,000
purging your heat for three 
energy or discarding cards one 

396
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,880
for one. 
Your hand size is your 

397
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,720
structure, your maximum 
structure. 

398
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,160
So like some mechs are bigger, 
so they have a bigger structure,

399
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,400
so they have a bigger hand size.
Some mechs are smaller so they 

400
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,640
have a smaller hand size. 
On your off turn, when you 

401
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,920
receive an attack, you have to 
discard cards from your hand 

402
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,560
equal to the damage received. 
If you can't discard any cards, 

403
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,880
you reduce your structure by 
that much damage. 

404
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,520
If your structure ever gets 
zero, you're dead. 

405
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,240
Thank you net runner for not 
nailing that down. 

406
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:42,400
And on your attack, you're 
spending energy to do damage. 

407
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,760
Then the opposing player can, 
you know, ditch their stuff. 

408
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,760
There's also defensive cards 
that give you more defense if 

409
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,120
you play them for their face 
value. 

410
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:57,680
But every card has three uses, 
the face value ditching it to 

411
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,240
produce heat and then becoming a
defensive card. 

412
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,360
So there's nothing that is a 
single use, and there should 

413
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:07,320
never be a turn where you can't 
do anything. 

414
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,240
Thank you Rad Lance, for let me 
RIP that off. 

415
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,160
This is a game of a bunch of 
ripped off stuff that I stapled 

416
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,960
together because that's. 
Every game. 

417
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,800
That's every game, so secret, 
that's all of them. 

418
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,600
And then like that's the basic 
loop. 

419
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,240
There's a bunch of like there's 
other actions in order to get 

420
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,640
within. 
This was a fun thought 

421
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,080
experiment. 
So mech games are usually 

422
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,360
miniature based and they have a 
spatial kind of awareness to 

423
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:40,160
them. 
And so in order to figure out 

424
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,280
how we how do we do that with 
cards, right, without putting 

425
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,560
them on the on the board. 
So there is an engagement for 

426
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,760
disengagement mechanic for one 
energy you can get in close or 

427
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,680
move far away that allows you to
use melee weapons. 

428
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,920
But if you're too close, you 
can't use range weapons. 

429
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,360
So yeah, if you have a sword, 
you have to get it. 

430
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:05,280
You have to spend the energy to 
get in and actually sword, you 

431
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:11,480
know, as a verb, the main Oh 
yeah, then you can draw cards or

432
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,640
reduce your heat. 
And so it's just a, a turn based

433
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,680
brawler. 
The main issue we had in play 

434
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,480
testing was that it was too 
fast. 

435
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,320
People were just banging it out 
in like 5-10 minutes. 

436
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,520
So I created these event cards. 
Each round after everybody takes

437
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:32,880
a turn, an event card is 
flipped. 

438
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,160
The first event is always the 
same. 

439
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,800
Everybody kind of gets a buff 
like you just spawned and then 

440
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,960
you're blinking. 
So it keeps people from blowing 

441
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,120
each other up right out the 
gate. 

442
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,400
And then the events get a little
like hit or miss. 

443
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,040
Like this one is super cool. 
So everybody ditches all their 

444
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,160
heat. 
That would be really great if 

445
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,640
you push your luck really apart.
But some of them are like 0 

446
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,800
gravity. 
This one makes it cost more to 

447
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,240
engage or disengage. 
So they're like universal 

448
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,520
modifiers. 
Yeah. 

449
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,040
And then there's the resource 
management aspect of it. 

450
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,560
Every turn you're getting more 
energy until you get up to four 

451
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,480
and putting heat into your tank 
if you ever overheat. 

452
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,680
If you go beyond six to seven, 
if it's your turn, you ditch all

453
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,440
your cards and your turn ends, 
which makes you really 

454
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,200
vulnerable to attack because 
your cards are your defense. 

455
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,040
So it's really important to 
watch your heat and like be 

456
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,000
mindful of where you're at near 
your cap because some attacks, 

457
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,440
hacking attacks, actually give 
you heat instead of damage. 

458
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,760
So players offhand can kind of 
fuck with your heat. 

459
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,080
So it becomes this kind of like,
what am I willing to push? 

460
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,720
What am I willing to save? 
A lot of the time the cards you 

461
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,760
draw don't make it to the next 
round like because you're using 

462
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,400
it for defense or you're like 
using them for discards to cool 

463
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,720
down. 
So it's it it, it leads people 

464
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,760
to take really big swings, which
is awesome because that's what 

465
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,720
we want. 
We want people to be having fun.

466
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,000
So after a round or two, people 
start to understand that and 

467
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,360
then just start going all out. 
And the most satisfying thing is

468
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:13,400
almost every play test game I've
ever played with this has had 

469
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,440
the group say let's play again. 
And so like, that's how I do 

470
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:22,680
like, OK, this is something 
that's the basic loop of it. 

471
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,960
You just play into there's only 
one person left, but I've got a 

472
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,120
couple. 
Like there's a couple of other 

473
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:32,360
ideas, like there's some 
expansion ideas I have in mind 

474
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:34,960
as well as like using it to tell
like campaign type stories 

475
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,080
because like it is instead it's 
you could do real playing with 

476
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,280
this pretty easy, But that's not
what I'm out to design here. 

477
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,160
I'm just out to design a 
straight up crawl card brawler 

478
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,080
that is easy to play and pick up
but has like an infinite amount 

479
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,680
of combinations. 
So the main thing is not 

480
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,720
balancing it at all at all, 
because like, that would drive 

481
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,680
me insane. 
There's like original magic, you

482
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,960
know? 
Right, yeah, there's just shit 

483
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,160
that just isn't broken. 
And I wanted to feel like 

484
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,160
playing with toys so you know, 
you're, you're snapping parts 

485
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,640
onto an action figure and 
playing against them. 

486
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,960
And that's been really fun. 
We don't do deck construction in

487
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:22,880
play testing anymore just 
because it takes too long. 

488
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,240
So everything is pre pre built. 
But I do have a second, I have a

489
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,640
second deck, a second set of 
cards that if people want to 

490
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,200
build a deck and play it, they 
can. 

491
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:35,920
And that's been really fun to 
see like the, the systems people

492
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,160
mix and match and see what kind 
of combos they come up with. 

493
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,680
Because I, I'll be honest, I 
haven't had the time to test 

494
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,800
every combo because I am busy 
making money and not wasting my 

495
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:51,560
time on this. 
So it's been really fun and 

496
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,360
really satisfying to see people 
kind of like really, it's like 

497
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:01,040
turn on to the game and then 
like get into it really fast. 

498
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,360
I, I'm excited about it. 
I, it's, it's again, like not 

499
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,360
something I really like thought 
I'd see myself producing, but 

500
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,840
the, it just won't go away. 
Like the, the thought won't 

501
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,840
leave my head. 
And we're at a point now where 

502
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,240
I'm just kind of too far gone. 
I mean, look at these beautiful 

503
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,640
cards. 
They're gorgeous. 

504
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,720
They're. 
Really great looking cards. 

505
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,920
I cannot tell you how much I 
want this to play it so well and

506
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,640
show. 
You got to show some of the 

507
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,640
cards because they're like, oh, 
you want to see some more? 

508
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,960
They're funny, though. 
Like what's one that I was 

509
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,240
cracking up with at Gen. 
Con? 

510
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,920
Isn't there one that's just like
big gun or something? 

511
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:45,600
Oh yeah, a lot of these still 
have some of their old names and

512
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:52,640
1 is just the big rifle and the 
card is shoot big rifle and like

513
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,280
I meant to change that and 
didn't. 

514
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,280
My favorite set in this, and I 
don't know if it's out, is the 

515
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,000
knife printer, which is just a 
3D printer built into your arm 

516
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,080
that prints dives. 
And so 3 cards are stab, stab, 

517
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,600
stab, they're free. 
And then two cards are print, 

518
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,680
which is just take all the stab 
cards out of your discard and 

519
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,960
put them into your hand. 
Cool. 

520
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,320
So stuff like that, jump jets 
dash is really great because 

521
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,800
it's a reaction card that can 
like let you engage or 

522
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,600
disengage. 
So if somebody plays like a 

523
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,040
missile launch at you, you can 
actually like go under the 

524
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,760
missiles and get near them. 
Or like if somebody's trying to 

525
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,520
swipe out you with a sword, you 
can get out of the way. 

526
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,000
Reloads are just free draws. 
Cause draws are kind of 

527
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,960
expensive on purpose because 
like you shouldn't have to draw 

528
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,400
cards. 
Oh, I should note that you're 

529
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,600
drawing at the beginning of your
turn, not the end of your turn. 

530
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,560
So any cards you have leftover 
at the end of your turn are your

531
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,080
defense cards. 
You can't draw at the end. 

532
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,200
But some some platforms like 
Tango, because she's so fast, 

533
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,120
you draw at the end of the turn 
to kind of like represent that. 

534
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,040
Yeah. 
It's been fun kind of thinking 

535
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:09,760
of how to do this type of game, 
which is very well trod 

536
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,960
territory. 
I mean, Mex have been around 

537
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:18,440
since the 70s, like in popular 
media with Gundam and like, like

538
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,560
I'm going with like Pat Laborer 
and like, there's a lot of 

539
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,880
Pacific Rim in here. 
So you know, and the idea is not

540
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,920
that these are shiny big, like 
corporate produced robots. 

541
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,480
These are like battle bots 
people made and then they got 

542
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,880
corporate sponsorships. 
So there's there's no uniform 

543
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,800
mech type like tango's like a 
little bipedal mech Echo's the, 

544
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:48,880
the, the war machine, like the, 
the leftover soldier mech. 

545
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,640
One of them is just a 
construction rig. 

546
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,120
And then like there's like a 
hazardous material research one 

547
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,320
and then like I have a bunch of 
other ones. 

548
00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,720
One just looks like a frog and I
love that one. 

549
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,160
But I haven't given it good 
powers yet. 

550
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,960
But it's, it's just been fun to 
kind of play in this space. 

551
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,120
I love Lancer like I'm, I think 
we've talked about this before. 

552
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,240
I'm like crazy about Lancer. 
I was one of the, I was like in 

553
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,240
the original Kickstarter. 
I've run probably 100 hours of 

554
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,120
Lancer. 
It is my baby and like, but 

555
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:27,360
that's because I love tactics 
games and and it's just got the 

556
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,200
right amount of role-playing to 
like pass into my group to be 

557
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,000
like, it's a role-playing game, 
you guys. 

558
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, definitely. 

559
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,840
Definitely. 
Yeah, totally. 

560
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,960
Yeah. 
Sure, for sure, for sure. 20% of

561
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,200
it maybe is role-playing game. 
And then I make them play X and 

562
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,560
then I basically make them play 
X COM for four hours. 

563
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,240
That's. 
So OK with me. 

564
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,720
I would so love to be part of 
that group, honestly. 

565
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,040
I mean like I, you know, I love.
Lancer. 

566
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,040
I love Lancer so much and 
Lancer's one I. 

567
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,120
Think we've said it on the show 
numerous times, Lancer is one of

568
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,200
those games that a lot of people
would love to play, but very few

569
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,160
people will actually run. 
Yeah, I'm not running. 

570
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:10,120
Oh, it's, it's, it's it's like 
running a small business like 

571
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,600
like there's so many tags, like 
if you get more, if you have 

572
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,040
like more than three enemy Macs 
on the board, you're like 

573
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,880
managing things. 
But I bet I I've I've a lot of 

574
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:23,280
it. 
I got it. 

575
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,000
They they have a great app that 
helps a lot with the Compcon 

576
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:27,760
amp. 
Yeah. 

577
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:28,840
Do you? 
Yeah, I see. 

578
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,280
I assume when you're running it 
you really employ that app. 

579
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,040
Oh, it's just easier than 
character sheets. 

580
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:39,480
And like, everybody can have it 
on their phone and you, they can

581
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,320
track their. 
I can't track everybody's stuff 

582
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,000
and land. 
Yeah, I just can't do it. 

583
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,040
It's too intense. 
But Compound has an encounter 

584
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,120
builder. 
It does, yeah. 

585
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,880
For the GM that you can put all 
of your, you can put all your 

586
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,120
enemies in there and track all 
their stats and stuff and like 

587
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,440
let it lets you know when 
they're off turn and stuff and 

588
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,280
and like it. 
That's really nice. 

589
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,320
I I actually don't think you can
run Lancer without that I. 

590
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,760
Was going to say I I don't think
it's possible to really run it 

591
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,440
effectively without without the 
app, which is crazy. 

592
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,360
And it's, it's free and it's 
like really good. 

593
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,920
And that much so like that type 
of support is, is awesome. 

594
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:19,639
Like Mothership has a great 
third party app Mark Borg's got 

595
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:22,040
so many cool like little 
character generators and dungeon

596
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,920
generators. 
Like I love that stuff. 

597
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,120
Karen's got a great character 
folio app. 

598
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,560
The company will probably never 
have that because I'm not, I 

599
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:36,080
don't have that patience. 
And it should be paperwork for 

600
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,040
the company. 
Like, yeah. 

601
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,560
It should be in triplicate like 
you should sell or you have to 

602
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,320
like tear off. 
Like carbon copies? 

603
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,400
Yeah, carbon copy character 
sheets will be incredible. 

604
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,440
We have to fill everything out 
in triplicate before you can get

605
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,480
your stuff. 
Yeah, how will stamp for the GM 

606
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,239
to the, you know, for? 
Company games at cons. 

607
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,960
I actually bought a label 
printer and like there's a 

608
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,360
there's a labeled printer 
version of the character sheets.

609
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,360
So people and it randomizes a 
character. 

610
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:07,480
So you just hit the button and 
it prints one out and then they 

611
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,520
pop it into a folder and that's 
their character for the for the 

612
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:11,760
one shot that's. 
Awesome. 

613
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,840
We're trying to Caleb and I 
Caleb over at Honda table and 

614
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,640
I've talked about getting a just
a straight up ID printer and 

615
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,040
like just printing people 
employee IDs at cons. 

616
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,160
I don't think that'd be 
hilarious. 

617
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,720
Really expensive. 
I can't imagine. 

618
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,120
And it takes like 10 minutes. 
Like, it's got to like, put the 

619
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,720
image on the thing and laminate 
it. 

620
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:38,080
And then like I think it like 
blows on it gently and then like

621
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,360
pushes it out. 
Yeah, we have to have our, our 

622
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,840
employee ID badges at work are 
magnetized for like all the door

623
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:44,960
openings and stuff like that 
too. 

624
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,120
So they literally have to like 
select which doors you're 

625
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,560
allowed to have access to and 
stuff. 

626
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,960
This is mine from the Art 
Institute of Chicago when I 

627
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,840
worked there for like 11 years. 
And it's got like a magnet key 

628
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,360
in it and a barcode and 
everything. 

629
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:58,920
And I look like absolute 
garbage. 

630
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,840
And I was supposed to turn that 
in when I left, but I didn't 

631
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,040
because I left on March 13th, 
2020 and I never went back. 

632
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,200
So like, it's not like somebody 
came and took it. 

633
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:14,400
I just like some stuff happened.
Yeah, it's weird. 

634
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,880
March 13th, what was in 2020? 
What was happening there? 

635
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,000
Something. 
Yeah, I refunded a almost 

636
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,440
$40,000 purchase that day, 
actually. 

637
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,360
So fun facts from my job that 
that didn't exist in same form 

638
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,680
after whatever happened at that 
time period, you know? 

639
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:32,880
Yeah, just some stuff. 
Yeah. 

640
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,760
Just when I was, when I was in 
Essendon a couple of years ago 

641
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,800
for Spiel, I went to the Folk 
Wing Museum and they it's, it's 

642
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,560
a wonderful modern Art Museum. 
They had an incredible 

643
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,920
collection, but they have a a 
room that's just like, this is 

644
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,800
all the art that this would 
would be here that we lost from 

645
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,480
19391945 when some stuff 
happened. 

646
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,200
It's just like, OK, yes, cool, 
that's what the. 

647
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,000
Smithsonian's going to be like 
in like 20 or 30 years from now 

648
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,440
and be like, yeah, this is 
here's all the this. 

649
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,920
There was a bunch of stuff here 
and in 2025 something happened. 

650
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,360
Something happened. 
Yeah, now it's just full of 

651
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,680
Confederate statues. 
Yeah, weird. 

652
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,440
But yeah, that's, I mean, like 
that's pretty much yeah. 

653
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,240
I always feel like I'm missing 
something with Rick I. 

654
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:22,000
Want to play this fucking game 
dude? 

655
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,760
Dare. 
You bring this on the show and 

656
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,480
make me want to play it so bad. 
Yeah, I'm sorry. 

657
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:28,840
That was the point. 
I. 

658
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:34,000
Love so I like in in theory, I I
loved magic for a really long 

659
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,160
time. 
Like I really like like card 

660
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,080
battle games, you know, and I 
fucking love mech shit. 

661
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,920
Like I'm such a mech boy and 
we've been playing MEC 20 on the

662
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,960
show on our not weekly games and
that's been. 

663
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,720
Tomorrow. 
We're playing it tomorrow and 

664
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,640
I've been reading Flimps or 
Ryan. 

665
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,240
I also just played through 
Armored Core 63. 

666
00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:00,480
Times a huge influence on this 
was fucking AC6. 

667
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,080
It's unbelievably good. 
It's so good, and it's such a 

668
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,680
From Soft game where if you want
to get all the endings and learn

669
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,400
everything, you have to play 
through it three times. 

670
00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:16,320
So this is like really cool and 
I I really enjoy the concepts 

671
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,240
that you've like freely ripped 
from other games. 

672
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:22,120
Like I love the cards in your 
hand being defense and not being

673
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:27,560
like a very like strategic 
resource to like use or hold on 

674
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,760
to. 
I think that's incredibly 

675
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,720
interesting. 
I also love that every MET game,

676
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:34,200
no matter what, has heat, you 
know? 

677
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,240
You know, it pops in a little 
different, you know, and 

678
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:38,560
everyone uses a little 
different. 

679
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,240
But like, everyone understands 
that you can overheat a MET like

680
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:43,720
that's just gets Canon, you 
know? 

681
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,320
I think it's an interesting, I 
mean, like that's just straight 

682
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,000
Lancer, right? 
Like it's they do heat so well, 

683
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:58,920
but I think like there has to be
a mech is such a power fantasy. 

684
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:04,400
Yeah, there has to be some foil 
to that, some kind of 

685
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,440
vulnerability. 
So making it that, oh, this is a

686
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:13,920
machine, like there's it's got 
flaws and you're a professional 

687
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,400
who's knows how to use it so you
can manage it. 

688
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,600
But like, you know, you got to 
have some kind of like Achilles 

689
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,600
heel. 
Like it's I just backed Mac 

690
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,520
attack from Chris McDowell 
mobile armor classes. 

691
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,320
Like the way I I, it's a Mac 
game. 

692
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:31,880
I can't come on. 
Yeah. 

693
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:33,800
It's my whole and the Doom. 
The Doom was good, so I'm really

694
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,000
excited to see what Mac attack 
does. 

695
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,720
I'm very excited. 
It's but like, yeah, he like 

696
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:44,560
managing the managing the core. 
Like what is this? 

697
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,880
What is this thing, this 
unwieldy thing you're you're 

698
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:56,000
piloting. 
How can it be taken down right? 

699
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,200
Like what? 
And you can't, it's like some X 

700
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,440
are just too strong. 
You can't hit it too strong for 

701
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,880
blasters. 
So like, you got to like get in 

702
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,840
there and start, you know, like 
heating them up and making them 

703
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,880
vulnerable. 
It also provides a different 

704
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:13,720
vector for tactics. 
Like if it's not, this goes two 

705
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:15,600
to four players. 
So when four players are really 

706
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:23,320
rolling it out, it becomes very 
chaotic and you have to pivot on

707
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:24,760
the fly. 
You can't really have a 

708
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:29,240
strategy. 
Your MEC and your Corp are going

709
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:33,760
to give you a trajectory, but 
they're not going to be your end

710
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:34,720
all. 
That's the cards. 

711
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,240
So, and you can't count on your 
cards being in your hand because

712
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:39,720
they're constantly being 
rotated. 

713
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,080
So you it, it's a game that 
doesn't let you kind of sit on 

714
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,320
your system, like it doesn't let
you sit on your, your, your 

715
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,840
engine, unlike commander, which 
is I, I, the way I describe 

716
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,800
commander is you get a bunch of 
people together who have all 

717
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,280
designed their own board game 
and they're going to play their 

718
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,360
board games at each other. 
And. 

719
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,040
Do they hate commander? 
Honestly. 

720
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:04,800
I love it so much because I love
that type of mechanical 

721
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,920
interaction, but that's because 
like, I'm in there like making 

722
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,880
weird combos to exploit the 
game. 

723
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,200
That's it was made for me. 
This is my whole right. 

724
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,040
That's what we're trying to 
accomplish here, but without all

725
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,800
of that shit. 
So like, there's not somebody 

726
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,880
that comes in and is like, I 
paid $500.00 for this deck and 

727
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:32,120
it's yeah, that's garbage. 
But if you do some clever like 

728
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,280
interactions or you find a cool 
mechanical exploit, that should 

729
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,960
be rewarded. 
And like I want to see people 

730
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,440
play like that, that like a big 
influence for this is Radlands. 

731
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,880
I really love Radlands because 
it is all about finding broken 

732
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,720
card exploits and like finding 
these card synergies that should

733
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,120
be busted in order to win. 
And I think that's an 

734
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:03,680
underutilized design philosophy.
We talk about balance a lot in 

735
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,360
game design. 
And maybe you fucking too much, 

736
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,400
honestly, like maybe too much, 
maybe too much because like at 

737
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,480
some point over balancing 
something takes a lot of the fun

738
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,640
out of it. 
And like, and then it becomes a,

739
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:23,840
like a, an analytical thing, 
like a, a min Max thing or a, or

740
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,520
like I need if I do this, this 
and this that, I'm going to win 

741
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,080
every time. 
And that isn't as fun. 

742
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:34,360
That's not exciting and that's 
not fun for normal people to 

743
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,000
play. 
I think balance matters most 

744
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,200
when you're going to do 
something repeatedly, right? 

745
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,680
So in like video games, for 
example, like Apex, Apex 

746
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,520
unbalanced, you're going to have
thousands of people playing 

747
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,960
hundreds of games like each a 
day. 

748
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,560
The balance is going to create a
meta that people will then only 

749
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,160
do one thing. 
If you're doing like an 

750
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,120
individual experience thing or 
something, you're not going to 

751
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:55,720
do a lot. 
Like balance is totally fine. 

752
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:57,880
But if you're doing like 10 year
campaign and something's broken,

753
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,600
you got a problem. 
So I you know, for something 

754
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,640
that you can just pick up and 
battle and whatnot, you know, if

755
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,680
it develops a meta, I think a 
balance is an issue. 

756
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:11,000
But like otherwise I you know. 
And like my, my fix for that is 

757
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,080
just like adding carts that are 
cooler, like break the meta. 

758
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,120
That's what net runner, I think 
when it was with Fantasy Flight 

759
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,600
never really kind of grasped. 
And when it's grasping now with 

760
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:26,280
null signal because fans are 
making it, is that as the meta 

761
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:32,200
evolves, you have to go bigger. 
And like Fantasy Flight was 

762
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:37,640
developing a meta for net runner
annually, not in real time. 

763
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,920
So like when they were redoing 
cycles and these packs that were

764
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,040
coming out monthly, which was a 
really cool district like like 

765
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:52,440
product like release concept, 
but they weren't responding to 

766
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,320
the meta in real time. 
They were products that were 

767
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,720
already planned to come out 
months and months in advance. 

768
00:43:57,720 --> 00:43:59,600
And once they came out and 
people play with them, they 

769
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:04,920
broke them just kind of where 
Magic succeeds sort of a little 

770
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,320
bit because they're in the 
trenches with the cards being 

771
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:08,960
like, Nah, this one's a little 
busted right now. 

772
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,400
This one's not good. 
And they're doing these bands 

773
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,680
and stuff sort of, it's not 
great. 

774
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,160
This is, but like at this point,
I for this, I just want it to be

775
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,360
as big and loud as possible. 
So like people should find those

776
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,920
exploits. 
They should break it so that 

777
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:30,200
other people have to respond. 
Like if you hate that exploit 

778
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,640
and think it's broken, find a 
more broken one. 

779
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,840
Cool, cool. 
I have I can get a hold of the 

780
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,480
company and and say hey, we need
a cooler car than this broken 

781
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,480
one, let's get it out. 
I have AI have two non related 

782
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,120
questions. 
The first one was you kind of 

783
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,080
made a reference to it earlier 
and I don't know what you ended 

784
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:49,440
up saying. 
You said originally the the 

785
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,920
Browns were going too quick. 
How long does Like a Game last 

786
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,360
now? 
Like 15 to 25 minutes, maybe 30 

787
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:58,280
so. 
Amazing. 

788
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,080
I love that so much. 
My biggest issue with commander 

789
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,200
other than like it's a it's a 
money grab by fucking Wizards of

790
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,680
the coast to buy 100 non 
repeating cards is also that 

791
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,440
it's like my friend's like oh 
come on, it's even longer than 

792
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,400
standard and I'm like that's 
actually bad. 

793
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,440
That's a bad selling point. 
Yeah. 

794
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,080
I like it when, like, I get 
knocked out in 15 minutes and 

795
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:19,800
then my friends are playing for 
two more hours. 

796
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,360
Yeah, it's really cool. 
That's awesome. 

797
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:27,440
No, like the we were doing 
rounds before I introduced the 

798
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,120
events. 
Rounds were going like 5-10 

799
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,880
minutes and they were fun and 
they were fast and they were big

800
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,960
and people were enjoying it. 
Me as a designer, I was like, 

801
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:41,000
that's too fast. 
Now with the events it gives 

802
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,440
people, it gives an even playing
field. 

803
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:44,520
So like it help. 
It's helped. 

804
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:50,400
I this has three uses to the 
event cards do even playing 

805
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:51,800
field so no one can run away 
with the game. 

806
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:58,640
They create a a universal 
tactical change that everyone 

807
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,280
has to accommodate to. 
And they function as round 

808
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,240
counters so you know how much 
energy you have. 

809
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,080
So like you can look at how many
event cards have been played and

810
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:08,320
know how many rounds you've 
played. 

811
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,880
Let's say everything in the game
has multiple uses. 

812
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,840
Has to. 
Very clever. 

813
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,360
And then I guess my second 
question was you, you also kind 

814
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,640
of made reference to there being
like some sort of campaign play 

815
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,280
aspect to this. 
How do you see that working and 

816
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,360
how would it like actually work 
at the table? 

817
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,520
Is there like a game master? 
Like what are they? 

818
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,640
What's it look? 
Like the concept for it right 

819
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,360
now is sort of like, hey, you 
know, this game Magic, I'm going

820
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,280
to talk about it somewhere. 
It's sort of like arch enemy 

821
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:44,560
where there's an overarching 
like a non player character that

822
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,440
all the other characters are 
fighting against. 

823
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:53,760
So that's represented by a mech 
card that has its own stats and 

824
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,240
then a deck that's off turn 
deciding what that enemy is 

825
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:01,440
going to do. 
But it's it's like a Co-op. 

826
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,880
So all the other players are 
banding together to try to beat 

827
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,200
this like big mech. 
But in concept you could do that

828
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,560
with any type of encounter. 
Cool, so the so the Kaiju 

829
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,560
expansion pack is what we have 
to look forward. 

830
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,600
To, you know, like, yeah, 
something like that or like, I 

831
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,080
mean, the I wouldn't put it all 
out there. 

832
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,880
There's a bunch of lore, like I 
wrote a whole bunch of shit 

833
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:25,920
about it. 
So like there's the corpse are 

834
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:31,080
bad crazy. 
And you know, like, and then 

835
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,240
like these were these were mechs
that were used for warfare and 

836
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:37,000
for construction and for 
colonization and for oppression.

837
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,640
And now they're being used for 
sport. 

838
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,520
So like, like you don't just 
build these. 

839
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,240
I mean, we should just build 
them for sport. 

840
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:47,080
That'd be fucking cool. 
But they're billion dollar war 

841
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,960
machines. 
Like they weren't originally 

842
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:52,160
meant for this. 
That's where I would really like

843
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,520
the stuff at Lancer where it's 
like the Everest, the basic 

844
00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:00,160
bargain Mac is really good if 
you know how to use it. 

845
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,040
But everybody wants all the 
flashy shit. 

846
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:07,000
So like so the Everest, the the 
humble Everest usually gets left

847
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,000
behind, but you start with a 
solid mech that's really 

848
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,640
customizable. 
And so like these are kind of 

849
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,280
based off of that Everest, like 
multi, like customizable or like

850
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,440
an armored core, right? 
Like you can swap out whatever 

851
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,440
you want to make this bigger 
thing. 

852
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,880
So you said you didn't want to 
make a TCG? 

853
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,920
This is a battle game right? 
This isn't Pokémon. 

854
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,960
You're not going to have like 
foiled full arts that people 

855
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,760
aren't even playing the game to 
get yet. 

856
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,560
No. 
So I don't want to do blind 

857
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,760
boosters because that's madness.
I am taking a living card game 

858
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:47,520
model, so there's a core box 
that is. 

859
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,240
I mean, I can discuss the 
product. 

860
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,120
The core box plays two players. 
It's got all the stuff to play 

861
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,520
two players. 
So in order to play four players

862
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,400
you need 2 core boxes. 
But the core box is also going 

863
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:04,040
to be 20 bucks so like it's not 
too expensive against. 3 core 

864
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:05,000
boxes. 
Really. 

865
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,880
Yeah, I. 
We're doing, I have a tier for 

866
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,400
the the Kickstarter next year 
that is like it's a discounted 4

867
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,880
player bundle that's 2 core 
boxes for less. 

868
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,320
But that I mean that I took from
Corp, like from actual 

869
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,080
publishing, which is, you know, 
like make it a smaller price 

870
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,160
point and you'll sell more 
units. 

871
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,760
But the expansions are just 
Macs. 

872
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:33,480
They're just a deck like a built
Mac with its sponsor and its 

873
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:36,760
frame and its systems. 
And then you can take those out 

874
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,960
and mix and match them with 
anything else. 

875
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:43,880
So it's a, it's a set like a box
that you know what cards are in 

876
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,480
it. 
But we're going to do like 10 of

877
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,760
those. 
Are you going to do? 

878
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:54,200
This is what I'm envisioning. 
Maybe like con exclusive foil 

879
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:59,800
packs with with little little 
extra like system cards or or 

880
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:00,560
sponsors. 
Or something. 

881
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,000
I want to do full art cards. 
I talked to Alex this week about

882
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:05,520
full art cards because we're 
also doing. 

883
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,880
I really love the black and 
white art on the cards because 

884
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,160
it makes it feel like manga 
panels. 

885
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,600
But a lot of players want full 
color, so we're testing out what

886
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:19,000
the full color cards look like. 
I want to do full art, like 

887
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,680
borderless cards. 
I think that'd be fun for like 

888
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,920
promos and stuff. 
The Pilot interface card is a 

889
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:30,600
thing that's really open for 
interpretation as long as all 

890
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,840
that information's there. 
Because it it consists of both 

891
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,760
your resource management and 
your player reference card. 

892
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,560
And they're double sided. 
Are we still on my feed? 

893
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,400
They're double sided. 
So like you can put them on 

894
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,320
either side depending on if 
you're left or right-handed. 

895
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:52,960
That was just for accessibility,
but these can look like anything

896
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:54,960
because they're kind of 
universal. 

897
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:58,400
So I was thinking of doing like 
limited edition of these, but 

898
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,280
you also just can make one. 
Like that's the other thing. 

899
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,600
The main model and distribution 
for this whole thing is there 

900
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,320
will be no monetary barrier to 
play. 

901
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,400
A print and play set of this is 
free. 

902
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,200
So like if you want to print the
cards and put them in a deck at 

903
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:20,200
home, do it. 
If you want to buy a print on 

904
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:24,720
demand set, it will be cheaper 
than buying the full retail 

905
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:27,280
version. 
So there's 3 levels of 

906
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,200
interaction to engage with the 
product. 

907
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,360
But there there's never a a 
paywall. 

908
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:38,400
Like you should be able, if you 
have the resources to print them

909
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,480
out and put them in sleeves, you
can play the game, which is 

910
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,240
another me kind of like shoving 
it to Wattsy, right? 

911
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:52,080
Like you should not have to be 
rich to enjoy a game. 

912
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,600
You shouldn't be or or to win 
even. 

913
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,480
Like, like that's bullshit. 
That takes away all the fun. 

914
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,800
So like, I don't want to lock 
anybody out ever. 

915
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:07,000
So yeah, everything will be 
available. 

916
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,560
Print, print and play. 
Like just print it out. 

917
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:10,600
Play it. 
I don't give a shit. 

918
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,160
Hell, if you want to put on nice
cars, put on nice cars, don't 

919
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,320
give a shit. 
Like please play it like my 

920
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,440
whole model, the whole mega Corp
model for years has been pay 

921
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:25,680
what you want because none of 
this stuff should be gate kept 

922
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,040
like it should be for everybody.
And like, if you want to give me

923
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:29,120
some cash for it, that's fucking
awesome. 

924
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:33,720
Please do I accept cash, But 
like I I don't want that to be a

925
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:34,520
barrier to play. 
Yeah. 

926
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:40,080
Man, if, if, if only the indie 
scene felt that way right now, 

927
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,280
maybe a lot of people wouldn't 
be getting burnt out on it, you 

928
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,320
know? 
Maybe, but like, I don't know, I

929
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:49,120
took AI took a long break from 
making stuff in the NDC and to 

930
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,640
help people kind of become 
bigger and like grow as 

931
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,160
publishers because that's the 
step, right? 

932
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,840
Like that's, that's what we're 
all working towards, but that's 

933
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:00,600
very few people know how to do 
it. 

934
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:06,440
And so scaling and like figuring
out what you're good at and what

935
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,400
you want to do and like helping 
having people help you with the 

936
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,320
other stuff is great and helps a
lot of people. 

937
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,600
And like it's, I'm really proud 
to be doing that with a lot of 

938
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,640
publishers and to help them kind
of scale up and to find out how 

939
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,800
to make this into a career and 
how to make it into something 

940
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,600
that like produces folding money
that you can pay your bills 

941
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,440
with. 
But it's hard work. 

942
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,240
And it's not just being like, 
here's 100 things you find in 

943
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:33,760
the ball pit at the Disney 
World, like, and here's a book 

944
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,600
of that, like it's production 
and like making sure your 

945
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,200
margins are good and not paying,
mix them too much money to print

946
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:44,680
your books And like people paid 
way too much to make stuff. 

947
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:48,600
And so like, you know, figuring 
out what a margin looks like 

948
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,680
that's affordable where you're 
like, Oh yeah, I can do some 

949
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,280
offset printing and pay like 
inside baseball right now I'm 

950
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,160
getting these for about $0.75 a 
deck. 

951
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:04,200
So like, that's really good. 
And so like I can, I can keep 

952
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:08,360
the MSRP really, really low, 
which is, which is the point and

953
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,480
more people should be doing 
that. 

954
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,120
But it's hard. 
It's, it's tough. 

955
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:17,960
Like if you think about it like 
I'm making AZ and, and then you 

956
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,720
have to make the logical jump 
to, I want to print this in 

957
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:22,360
China and make 5000 copies of 
it. 

958
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:27,680
The gap in knowledge between 
those two things is enormous and

959
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,120
and intimidating. 
And, like, you get a lot of 

960
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,880
imposter syndrome and you're 
like, if it's worth it, am I 

961
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:35,760
good enough for that? 
Is this a lot of work? 

962
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,280
And it is a lot of work. 
But like, once you do it one 

963
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,720
time, the second time becomes 
easier, The third time becomes 

964
00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:44,680
easier. 
And it's really like not 

965
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,760
stopping. 
It's about continuing through. 

966
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:48,840
Yeah. 
You guys know you're doing a 

967
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,400
podcast. 
So many podcasts get started and

968
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,520
stopped every year. 
But the people who are success 

969
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:58,320
are successful at it are the 
people who keep going and like 

970
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,200
you're you because you have to. 
A lot of people want instant 

971
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:06,040
gratification on their endeavors
because we live in a, in a 

972
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,400
culture that like does like you 
can order something, it'll be 

973
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:10,920
there the next day or later that
day. 

974
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,400
Like you get instant 
gratification so easily and 

975
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:17,520
people think they should be good
at everything, but it is OK to 

976
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:21,760
not be good at everything. 
I have to tell myself that all 

977
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,560
the time, right? 
We should probably all tell 

978
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:29,040
ourselves that more often so. 
Maybe, but I I like, I like what

979
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,080
I do. 
I like bringing this type of 

980
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,960
like hard won, cursed knowledge 
to people so that they don't 

981
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,080
have to learn it. 
But I also think there's room 

982
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:46,240
for all of us to grow and figure
out more economical and, you 

983
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:50,600
know, lucrative ways to make 
this stuff that's not us wearing

984
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,520
a barrel at the end of the day. 
I tell a lot of my clients, 

985
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,640
like, I can't guarantee you I'm 
going to make you a lot of 

986
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,000
money, but I can guarantee you 
that I will make it so you lose 

987
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,720
the least amount of money. 
So like, and people seem to like

988
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:04,960
that. 
They like when I'm like, you're 

989
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:09,520
going to lose less there. 
You go, I mean, that's ideal in 

990
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,640
the current city of the economy 
to just not lose money is is 

991
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,400
fantastic. 
I mean, that's tough, especially

992
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,320
man, there's so much the 
economy. 

993
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:20,600
It's. 
Great. 

994
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,240
Yeah, it's wonderful. 
The president. 

995
00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:25,520
And his team keep telling me how
great everything is. 

996
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:26,760
Is that. 
Is that not true? 

997
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,440
I picked a really a hell of a 
time to get into like 

998
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,040
international manufacturing and 
logistics and superior. 2 Two 

999
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,480
things, is there going to be 
accessibility wise? 

1000
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,080
Also, maybe when you come back 
on the show again when this 

1001
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:40,600
launches we can play a little 
bit of it. 

1002
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,440
Is there going to be a digital 
version of this game? 

1003
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,960
Have you thought about putting 
the cards even just scanned in 

1004
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,760
so they can be put into like a 
deck build or anything? 

1005
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,000
I don't need to scan them in 
because everything is a digital 

1006
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,600
file. 
So already done. 

1007
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,040
There's a TTS mod for it that 
we've been using for play 

1008
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,520
testing. 
Oh, really? 

1009
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,120
Why? 
But ITS every week. 

1010
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:01,640
We could have just been in TTS, 
right? 

1011
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,480
Now in BIOS bro, we've got to 
play. 

1012
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,040
Let me, let me clean it up and 
I'll send it to you because it's

1013
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,320
got some old cards and a bunch 
of old art and stuff. 

1014
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:11,720
Cool. 
I haven't put the new designs in

1015
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:12,920
yet. 
It was just something that we 

1016
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:19,120
were using to kind of like get 
through reps I do have. 

1017
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:24,080
Say we will definitely add that 
to our our not weekly war Games 

1018
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,640
list if we have the GTS mod for 
it. 

1019
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:31,080
So in my previous life, in my 
previous career, I was in charge

1020
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:35,920
of some development of mobile 
ports of card games and I have a

1021
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:40,360
good connection in that space. 
The problem is, is capital. 

1022
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:46,440
Yeah, those cost a lot and in 
order to make that money back we

1023
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:51,800
would have to make it paid app 
or ad supported and I do not 

1024
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:53,120
have the bandwidth for that 
right now. 

1025
00:57:54,680 --> 00:58:02,000
The core accessibility focus for
this at this time has been pre 

1026
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:04,880
manufacturing localization 
contracts. 

1027
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:08,360
So I'm working with a 
localization partner to get 

1028
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,920
localizations for this game in 
English, French, Spanish, 

1029
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:16,720
Italian, and German prior to 
manufacturing. 

1030
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,680
So we'll be able to offer those 
during the Kickstarter in order 

1031
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:27,400
to get larger offset runs. 
So if I can get like an extra 

1032
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:32,240
1000 orders in these languages, 
then I can payless for each unit

1033
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,080
and I just want to offer that. 
That's such a rare thing to 

1034
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:44,200
offer and if I can do it, I'm 
gonna so like we'll have all of 

1035
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:48,200
the different levels of 
interaction, print and play, 

1036
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:52,080
print on demand and full retail 
product in those languages at 

1037
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:59,880
launch, which is I'm it's fine. 
It's totally fine and it's not 

1038
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:03,520
stressing me out at all. 
No, no, no, this kind of shit. 

1039
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:10,200
This is why we love Logan Dean 
and and even just to the point 

1040
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,760
that you have the the pilot card
where you could flip it so that 

1041
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:15,960
left-handed people can use it 
effectively like the level. 

1042
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:16,680
I. 
Mean. 

1043
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:18,120
Well, there you go. 
If you want. 

1044
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:23,200
Yeah, but but that's crazy. 
And like, you know, when when 

1045
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:25,160
people have like I got a Spanish
version of the game, that's 

1046
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:26,800
fantastic. 
But like the fact that that's 

1047
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:30,120
such a rare thing in the space 
when especially the Latin 

1048
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:35,360
community is enormous and 
incredibly talented is is crazy.

1049
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,800
So they'll be able to like add 
production, be like, here's this

1050
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,000
box that is not expensive. 
And if you get 2 of them, it's 

1051
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,760
even less expensive. 
And we'll offer it to you in 

1052
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,040
like, what was it? 
Was that 55 languages four or 

1053
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:46,200
five? 
Languages English, Spanish, 

1054
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:49,560
French, German and Italian 5 
languages to start. 5 languages 

1055
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:56,280
is crazy like that's, you know, 
and and again with the thought 

1056
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,840
process that you know, no 
paywall, you know, with the pay 

1057
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,600
what you want stuff like the the
accessibility across the board 

1058
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,320
for all of this, especially 
financially, especially as we've

1059
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,720
joked about the entire episode 
as this world is burning and and

1060
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:13,680
the quote UN quote economy is 
caving around all of us making 

1061
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:20,400
it accessible to play a Ford. 
And and run is huge, you know, 

1062
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,640
and and navigating and you're 
just the perfect person to be 

1063
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,760
able to navigate the current, 
you know, de minimis bullshit 

1064
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:28,480
and like all the rest of the 
stuff that's burning 

1065
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,320
international stuff. 
So it's, it's, it's crazy. 

1066
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:33,480
I don't know if someone says de 
minimis. 

1067
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,320
I take like 10 points of psychic
damage. 

1068
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,440
Yeah. 
I will say personally, I thought

1069
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:40,800
the reason we loved Logan Dean 
was the mustache, but I think 

1070
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:42,320
that's also a great reason as 
well, so. 

1071
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,160
This is the stash cast today. 
It's this is. 

1072
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:49,920
No, I, I, you know, like I, I've
talked about it before. 

1073
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,840
I have a very, I come from an 
art history background working 

1074
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:59,840
in museums and I was radicalized
really young because of like the

1075
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,240
Iraq war and stuff. 
But like, working in museums 

1076
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:07,640
really made me realize that we 
keep a lot of cultural assets 

1077
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:12,680
behind lock and key, and we make
it so that only the affluent can

1078
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,280
access them. 
And that's fucking bullshit, 

1079
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,400
man. 
Like, art is for everybody. 

1080
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:21,040
Games are for everybody. 
We should be creating spaces 

1081
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,560
where those things are 
accessible to everybody. 

1082
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:29,000
And I know that goes in the face
of capitalism as a whole and 

1083
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:33,200
like making as much money as 
possible hand over fist, but I 

1084
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,320
don't care for that cause like 
I've never had a bunch of money.

1085
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:37,880
So that's never been an issue 
for me. 

1086
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:43,240
I've just always wanted to enjoy
art and play games and like like

1087
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:44,880
I used to pirate games all the 
time. 

1088
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:47,680
Like that's how we played games 
when we didn't have any money. 

1089
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:55,200
So creating products that are 
both financially viable so that 

1090
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:59,480
I don't like carry myself in 
debt, but also we're able to 

1091
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:03,640
create them sustainably and to 
welcome in people that might not

1092
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:07,040
have the means to actually 
engage with them at a full 

1093
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,360
product level is the most 
important thing to me. 

1094
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:12,520
Again, like all the company 
stuff is free. 

1095
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,360
Like you should, if you haven't 
checked it out, you should. 

1096
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,440
You probably have it, honestly. 
It's been in a bunch of those 

1097
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:21,400
really big bundles. 
So, you know, check it out, play

1098
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,120
it. 
You don't have to play them out 

1099
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:27,680
of your dad, but like I love to 
be able to offer that stuff 

1100
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,200
because that is who I'm 
designing for is for the people 

1101
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:34,720
who just want to play it might 
not have the money and those 

1102
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,160
there's so many of those people.
There's so many players that are

1103
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,200
just like scraping by like 
getting like a Warhammer team 

1104
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:43,440
together out of like extra 
pieces or like using a second 

1105
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,880
hand commander deck or like 
building Magic decks just to 

1106
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:50,640
play. 
That shouldn't be the case. 

1107
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,880
Like you should be able to 
interact with the hobby without 

1108
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:56,800
being hell, without being 
employed. 

1109
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:00,560
Oh yeah. 
Completely agree. 

1110
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:03,200
I mean it's a great ethos to 
have. 

1111
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,640
Once again, I wish people need 
to listen to you about a lot of 

1112
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:08,560
things. 
You're right, you should tell my

1113
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,400
clients that. 
I should Speaking of. 

1114
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:13,080
Clients in this. 
Episode yeah. 

1115
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaking of clients, are you, is
there a way for people to reach 

1116
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:22,000
you to help them not only with 
like, like because you're cool 

1117
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,880
and stuff, but also like the 
international shipping stuff? 

1118
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:25,080
Is that the thing that you're 
still doing? 

1119
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:27,040
Do you reach out to clients? 
The clients reach out to you. 

1120
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:29,560
Can people reach out to you? 
What are you doing with that? 

1121
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,520
When's your when's your webinar 
coming out for for? 

1122
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:41,400
I I got AI keep pitching a panel
to every every con I go to 

1123
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,360
called how to be a better 
Kickstarter backer and it's just

1124
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,720
me yelling at people and it 
always it it always gets 

1125
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:53,000
rejected. 
No, I I do consulting, I do 

1126
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,920
contract work. 
You can contact me at Logan Dean

1127
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:57,880
dot games. 
That is my website. 

1128
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:00,880
There's a contact form there 
that goes directly to me. 

1129
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:07,280
I haven't had to like reach out 
for leads in a while. 

1130
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:08,920
I've been getting a lot of 
referral work. 

1131
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:12,560
I'm about to take on some long 
term contracts. 

1132
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,720
So I think I'll be kind of 
focusing more on consultation 

1133
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:20,120
instead of coordination, but I 
try to work within everybody's 

1134
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,240
budget. 
I don't like, I have a scale 

1135
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:26,720
that I work with an hour or two 
of my time is not going to break

1136
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:30,720
your your wallet. 
And I'm happy to connect you 

1137
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,960
with people because I also have 
a ton of inner in like contacts 

1138
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,560
within the industry. 
Like I've worked with a bunch of

1139
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,000
big publishers. 
I'm still working with a bunch 

1140
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,880
of big publishers, but like 
retailers, distributors, 

1141
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,000
manufacturers, logistics 
professionals, like all the 

1142
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,960
people who are getting their 
hands dirty in the supply line, 

1143
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,440
Like those are the people I work
with. 

1144
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:57,120
Like there's tons of hands that 
make it so the game gets from 

1145
01:04:57,120 --> 01:05:00,360
it's manufacturing to you. 
And each one of those people is 

1146
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,040
integral to that process. 
And I've just happened to like 

1147
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,360
make a little list of who the 
best people in each one of those

1148
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,480
roles is. 
And I love working with these 

1149
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:10,720
folks. 
And like everybody's super 

1150
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:12,640
passionate about it. 
I love working in games because 

1151
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:16,840
people are like, it's not 
something that is important. 

1152
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:21,240
Like it's not, we're not 
manufacturing insulin, but it is

1153
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,560
something that means a lot to a 
lot of people. 

1154
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:29,320
And the people in the industry 
that most of them are really 

1155
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:31,960
passionate about providing 
experiences. 

1156
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,160
And then like a small few of 
them are really passionate about

1157
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:35,400
making as much money as 
possible. 

1158
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,280
And there's a you, you can tell 
like it's not hard. 

1159
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:43,680
It's not a big industry. 
So like we all kind of know each

1160
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:46,080
other and we all try to help 
each other as much as possible. 

1161
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,280
And I, I like that way more than
academia. 

1162
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:57,400
Whoa, like don't work in action.
That's not true. 

1163
01:05:57,720 --> 01:05:59,360
I'm going to, we do need 
teachers. 

1164
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:03,240
Please become a teacher. 
Yeah, but I mean, I also think 

1165
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,520
there's a difference between 
teaching and academia. 

1166
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:10,000
You know, 1 is like educating 
our youth and 1 is like, you 

1167
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,920
know, getting college tenure. 
Oh my God, like just people. 

1168
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,400
College politics bullshit. 
Oh my God, I worked in museums 

1169
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:20,160
and it's like you're not even 
educating the future. 

1170
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,280
You're just like seething 
because you couldn't do it. 

1171
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:28,600
And like the the rivalry between
like big art museums is so 

1172
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,400
silly. 
Like the Met and the Chicago 

1173
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:33,640
artists are Chicago like hate 
each other. 

1174
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,680
And it's like, OK, well, you're 
different museums. 

1175
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:41,800
You guys know that, right? 
Like, man, I could talk about 

1176
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:46,320
that for another 20 hours, but 
I'm not going. 

1177
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:53,640
To yeah, so, so talk about where
people can reach you to teach 

1178
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:55,040
the consult stuff like that. 
Yeah. 

1179
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:59,360
But the company for everything 
where, where can everybody else 

1180
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:02,960
find all of your other things? 
There's links to my itch on 

1181
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:06,960
Logan United games. 
Most everything that I made 

1182
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,560
personally is on Mega Dash Corp 
dot itch dot IO. 

1183
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:13,760
You can get, I mean, a bunch of 
my stuff that's all over the 

1184
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,120
place by code design 1978 with 
Adam Vast. 

1185
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:20,880
You can buy that at World Champ 
Gameco I'm pretty sure. 

1186
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:24,840
Plus one Exp has physical copies
of Demonfuck Cleveland still 

1187
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,320
somewhere bouncing around. 
They always seem to be finding 

1188
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,840
more, which is weird because 
that was a limited run. 

1189
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:35,720
We're going to do a reprint to 
the company once I make 

1190
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:37,080
$1,000,000 on Rec League. 
Cool. 

1191
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,880
I have another board game I want
to make that's basically like 

1192
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,200
Battlestar Galactica, but you 
can play it in an hour because 

1193
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:47,800
Battlestar Galactica is like 
favorite game. 

1194
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:53,280
And I don't like the Cthulhu one
that Fantasy Flip put out. 

1195
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,640
Yeah, I think that's it. 
I mean, I'm all and then like I 

1196
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,160
have a bunch of Kickstarters 
that I've been like helping 

1197
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:04,840
collaborate on. 
So we have 50 days. 

1198
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,680
That time, you know. 
All the possible world stuff. 

1199
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:10,600
Check out Possible Worlds. 
We have a Kickstarter launching 

1200
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:13,160
next month. 
I have one I consulted on La 

1201
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:15,720
Vente Rouge that launches next 
week. 

1202
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:18,720
That's about like a team of 
thieves trying to RIP off French

1203
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:20,080
nobles. 
Cool. 

1204
01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:24,200
So like that one's pretty dice 
like assignment game. 

1205
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:27,720
So you're rolling and then like 
a signing dice to to cards to 

1206
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:29,840
like pull off heists. 
It's pretty cool. 

1207
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:35,439
I don't know if I can talk about
that one. 

1208
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:38,880
Yeah, we got a lot of stuff in 
the fire. 

1209
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,319
I wish. 
Like my Kickstarter profile 

1210
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:45,240
showed all of my collaborator 
credits because it shows the 

1211
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:50,120
ones you make, which is 3. 
I have like 50 collaborator 

1212
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:52,279
credits. 
So when I go into my 

1213
01:08:52,279 --> 01:08:54,359
Kickstarter, it's like, which 
project do you want to go to be 

1214
01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:58,160
like the damn it, you know? 
Reach out to Kickstarter. 

1215
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:01,000
They're they're, they're like, I
think in the CL, like all blue 

1216
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:04,000
sky now, trying to make people 
not hate their their company. 

1217
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:11,240
Sign the letter, the petition 
for the Kickstarter Union to get

1218
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,439
a fair contract. 
They've been negotiating for 

1219
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,680
almost 2 years now on that and 
like management is not doing 

1220
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:21,160
great. 
And I'll tell you what, as much 

1221
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:24,359
as I would love to see it, you 
guys do not want the Kickstarter

1222
01:09:24,359 --> 01:09:28,479
union to go on strike. 
Like if that happens, a lot of 

1223
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:32,160
bad stuff happens for a lot of 
small indie creators who are 

1224
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:35,319
just trying to make stuff meet. 
Like if you sign that petition 

1225
01:09:35,319 --> 01:09:37,720
that's going around, you can 
check it out at Kickstarter 

1226
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:41,640
United. 
Like let your voice be heard on 

1227
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:43,359
that one. 
Because like those guys, they 

1228
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:48,520
are the working class heroes of 
this industry and they're not 

1229
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,520
getting a fair shake. 
And like, it's really important 

1230
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:56,240
that we keep them happy and fed.
And like that unions. 

1231
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:00,200
I, I, I work with them a lot and
I care about those people and 

1232
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:03,600
they deserve better. 
So I take the time to check that

1233
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:06,760
out and sign it and let 
management mode that they're 

1234
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:11,240
they're just not being cool. 
Yeah, yeah, I'll, I'll try to 

1235
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,000
remember to put that link down 
below too. 

1236
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,560
So if you're listening and it's 
not there, comment and remind me

1237
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:17,240
and I'll put it there. 
And like. 

1238
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:20,720
Kickstarterunited.org I just 
signed it so. 

1239
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:21,800
Cool. 
Yeah, Check it out. 

1240
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,400
Like they, they, they hit their 
goal of 500 signatures, I think 

1241
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:29,560
within a day. 
We just, we need those people 

1242
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:31,080
and they need that. 
Yeah. 

1243
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:36,720
And like, Kickstarter is a 
necessary evil at this point, 

1244
01:10:37,480 --> 01:10:40,120
but it's getting better. 
And I work with Kickstarter 

1245
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:42,160
quite a bit to the point where 
they actually listen to me when 

1246
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:46,520
I give them feedback. 
And they've been doing better. 

1247
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,000
And like, the pledge management 
system is finally live. 

1248
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:50,720
It's 15 years late, but it's 
finally there. 

1249
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:52,840
And it's good. 
It's fine. 

1250
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:54,920
It does what it needs to do. 
Like, it'll only get better. 

1251
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:58,240
So like, if you want to keep 
that platform around, you have 

1252
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:02,160
to be vocal about it because 
otherwise Game found's going to 

1253
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:04,200
eat it. 
And Game found is like a bank. 

1254
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:10,440
And I don't like banks now, I 
like game, it's fine. 

1255
01:11:10,440 --> 01:11:15,040
But like they, they've got a 
very like top down corporate 

1256
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:18,120
mindset that kind of skips me 
out a little bit. 

1257
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:21,360
No, I hate that. 
And they're very. 

1258
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:25,480
Bored and war game focused. 
Yeah, and it's too, you know, 

1259
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,880
those are expensive products 
that cost a lot to make and you 

1260
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:30,360
need to offset them with 
crowdfunding. 

1261
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:35,200
That's why I don't make those. 
But like, come on, at some 

1262
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:39,280
point, you know, maybe making 
people pay in four for a $500 

1263
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:42,920
game is going too far. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1264
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:44,560
I mean, I did. 
I did. 

1265
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:46,600
I did do that though. 
But like, yeah, it's too far. 

1266
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:49,400
I did. 
It for AI have one of these 

1267
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:53,040
X-Men animated series Magneto 
action figures that I did. 

1268
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:56,480
AI did a pay in four on because 
it was too expensive but it's so

1269
01:11:56,480 --> 01:11:58,760
cool. 
It sounds neat. 

1270
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,600
I I think I probably spent too 
much money on 1490 Doom, but 

1271
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:05,560
we'll see what comes from that. 
That sounds cool. 

1272
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:12,200
Yeah, yeah, that that back that 
reach out to Logan. 

1273
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,600
Definitely go check out the 
company, check out Cycers, check

1274
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:17,480
out all their stuff. 
And I can't wait for Rec League.

1275
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,360
Logan come back on the show. 
When is a Kickstarter probably 

1276
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:24,640
dropping? 
That is, that's a great 

1277
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:26,960
question. 
It really depends on my contract

1278
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:30,680
load. 
Is it to run a Kickstarter for 

1279
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,120
myself? 
I'm going to need a little time 

1280
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:35,560
and so, but I'm planning on 
doing like the current 

1281
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:40,320
trajectory is next summer, 
probably around Gen. 

1282
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:42,960
Con time because some of that 
sweet cross promotion. 

1283
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:46,520
Yeah, very useful. 
Yeah, it is. 

1284
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:51,880
And by that point I should have 
like I am also of the mind of 

1285
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:55,560
like, I don't want to kickstart 
before I have production on 

1286
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:59,000
rails. 
So I should have by that point 

1287
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:02,600
like actual manufacturing 
proofs, full products ready to 

1288
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:05,240
go. 
Like, I'm not going to ask 

1289
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:07,000
anybody for money for something 
that's not done. 

1290
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:10,000
So like. 
Very honest of you, it's. 

1291
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:15,520
Broken, but like I think it's 
about ready as some art assets I

1292
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,040
need to finish some product 
stuff. 

1293
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:22,040
Yeah, I got to make dice, which 
is a whole thing. 

1294
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,440
I wanted them to be spin down, 
but that's a whole nother like 

1295
01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:28,480
level of cost that I was just 
like, you know what, people can 

1296
01:13:28,480 --> 01:13:30,240
turn the dice. 
Yeah, it'll be fine. 

1297
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:33,200
It's not, it's not that that 
much more convenient, so. 

1298
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,360
And they're going to be smaller 
than these. 

1299
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:38,320
These are 16mm. 
I'm going to get them down to 10

1300
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:41,480
I think just because like, I 
like that smaller feel. 

1301
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:45,360
Teeny tiny dice. 
Yeah, you know, like the card, a

1302
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:48,240
card game is one thing and then 
I have this one has components 

1303
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:50,840
which I'm like. 
But if you if. 

1304
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,080
You have the Mothership Deluxe 
box. 

1305
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:57,720
There's those like drawers, like
these cabinets in it. 

1306
01:13:58,360 --> 01:13:59,720
So we're doing something like 
that. 

1307
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:03,600
I have like a prototype here, so
it comes out like this. 

1308
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,200
And then there's all of these 
little boxes in here. 

1309
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:08,880
Oh, hold on, we're not. 
Well, let's put that Cam back. 

1310
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:11,280
No, you're good. 
Yeah. 

1311
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:16,000
So it, it, this is the the rec 
league box and then it pops out 

1312
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,600
and then there's all these 
little like each one is the as a

1313
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:21,560
deck and then kind of put a 
little like one of those little 

1314
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:23,960
cabinets up here. 
And that's where the dice and 

1315
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:27,480
the little chips live. 
But this is about the form 

1316
01:14:27,480 --> 01:14:33,000
factor of the set, very large, a
little bit bigger than like a 

1317
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:36,760
like 100 card deck box. 
And like I said, that'll that'll

1318
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:38,080
have enough for two players in 
it. 

1319
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:40,920
But if everybody gets one, then 
you just need the whole set. 

1320
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:46,560
Like this is a personal set. 
And so I wanted it to be a like 

1321
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:48,720
a deck box that you could carry 
your whole game in. 

1322
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:52,320
That's awesome. 
I cannot wait to make my fiance 

1323
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:55,560
play this with me. 
I can't wait. 

1324
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:59,760
To hear how that goes. 
Yeah, she'll win. 

1325
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:02,800
She's she'll, she'll get first 
couple rounds, you're like 

1326
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:04,720
what's going on? 
And then suddenly she'll reel, 

1327
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:06,880
she'll sharpen up real hard and 
start beating me. 

1328
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:09,160
So I. 
Have never won this. 

1329
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:15,360
Nice plastic. 
I always swing way too big and 

1330
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:19,480
then somebody comes in and just 
like, which is fine because I 

1331
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:21,120
have to take notes, yeah. 
Totally. 

1332
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:22,760
There you go. 
I'm sure at some point you'll 

1333
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,200
get one, but I. 
Thank you. 

1334
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:31,120
Let us know, But yeah, come back
on again, demo the game, let us 

1335
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:34,000
know if we're allowed to stream 
the TTS when I bug you until you

1336
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:35,320
give it to. 
Us Yeah, yeah, I'll get it. 

1337
01:15:35,480 --> 01:15:38,240
I'll get it gussied up. 
I just I've been neglecting that

1338
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:41,040
with like paid work. 
If we can't, it's OK, we're 

1339
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:41,960
still going to play it. 
We'll. 

1340
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,600
Still play it, yeah. 
I don't give it all day. 

1341
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:48,040
Yeah, absolutely. 
I love coming on. 

1342
01:15:48,440 --> 01:15:49,600
Thanks for having me. 
Yeah. 

1343
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:52,840
Great to have you on. 
Yeah, and that is going to be us

1344
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:55,120
for today. 
Catch us tomorrow if we wake up 

1345
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:57,680
for not weekly war games, for 
some more mech 28 if you want 

1346
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:01,640
some more mech action and then 
more stuff next week. 

1347
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:03,680
No game this week. 
But again, Logan, thank you for 

1348
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:05,280
being here and we will catch all
of you later.