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Hello and welcome to the Weekly 
Scroll Podcast. 

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My name is Ryan. 
And my party brings our boat in 

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with us into the dungeon just so
we have something to sleep in. 

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And joining us today for the, I 
don't know if you actually 

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looked up how many times, at 
least almost half a dozen times.

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The wonderful Max Moon. 
How's it going, Max? 

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I'm doing good. 
Good to see you guys. 

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Thanks for having me again. 
Love talking with you. 

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Always. 
This time. 

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I'm sorry. 
No, this is the sixth time. 

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Yeah, that's what I'm saying. 
I'm. 

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Sorry, this is the seventh time,
all right. 

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Do you want to double check is 
it? 

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Oh my God, forgot about the 
Black Gods kiss interview as 

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well. 
You were there for that too. 

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So this is the eighth time 
you've been on the show? 

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You think it's the second most? 
Yes, I am counting rumpus. 

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No, I outside of maybe like the 
people that are actually part of

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the show, which like I would say
Josh and Stella are definitely 

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like, I would consider him part 
of the show. 

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I think it's Jert. 
And then Max, I think. 

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I think you're, you're, you're 
#2 here. 

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And Chris, Chris P Wolf, the 
wonderful Chris P Wolf in chat. 

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The first thing they said, which
is the first thing Hunter said, 

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which is the first thing I said,
was Max's glasses game has put 

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us all to shame. 
Yeah. 

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I love glasses. 
Compliments. 

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Yeah, they're great. 
They're. 

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Wonderful specs for those in 
podcast land. 

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I'm not going to describe them. 
You're missing out. 

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Go watch this on YouTube. 
Watch the show. 

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Yeah. 
So Max, yes, for the apparently 

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8th time. 
Thank you so much for coming on.

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I was going to bring down my 
whole stack of 12 years, but 

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then I was like, it's a shelf at
this point. 

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So I, I, I didn't. 
But all of this, all of this 

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stack and the whole stack behind
it, this is all pretty much 12 

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years and Abyss of 
Hallucinations. 

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And today we're going to be 
talking about a bunch of stuff. 

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I'm sure we'll tangent as we 
always do, but ostensibly we're 

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here to talk about 12 Years at 
Sea, which is on Kickstarter 

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literally as of like three hours
ago. 

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Yeah, I am super stoked about 
this. 

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The campaign's off to a great 
start, just like funded right 

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away, which is cool. 
And we just broke the first 

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stretch goal, which means Phil 
who did solitary defilement one 

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D 10 + 5 also does dungeon Sen 
as dark Valley and so we're 

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getting a a soundtrack for it as
well. 

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Perfect. 
So that's. 

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Nice. 
Yeah, you're already double the 

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goal 3 hours into the campaign 
with 24 days to go. 

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So so I think I think I think 
you're going to make it. 

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I think you're going to get 
there. 

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So but BS so 12 years at sea. 
So I guess the first. 

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So obviously so I know the 
answer to some of these 

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questions because this is like 
my favorite game and I'm 

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obsessed with it. 
Everything you've kind of done 

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for 12 years up to this point is
kind of an expansion, right? 

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Like it's called the Demon Lord 
expansion, even though you can 

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just kind of like play it on its
own and like there's a village 

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expansion is 12 years at sea and
it says it's a seafaring 

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expansion. 
Are you calling it an expansion 

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or would you say this is a whole
new thing? 

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Well, OK, so I say it's an 
expansion just to make sure it's

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clear that you do still need the
Corzine to play it because I 

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didn't put all the mechanics in 
it that are repeat mechanics. 

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So like your basic like like 
combat table is not in there. 

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That's you got to have the 
Corzine for that. 

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But there's a difference between
the two. 

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Like demon Lord expansion 12 
years at sea versus like the 

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village expansion, like village 
just adds into any game of 12 

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years you're playing. 
But like 12 years at sea is and 

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demon Lord is like this dude 
adds a new quest. 

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So this one, though, is the most
like the biggest build on 12 

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years that I've done 12 years at
sea is. 

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So this one adds a whole new 
mode of like seafaring 

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exploring. 
So you still have like you can 

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just like migrate from 
exploring, traveling across the 

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land into traveling at sea. 
But there's a whole different 

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set of mechanics with like 
mutiny checks and stuff like 

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that and like crafting A vessel 
if you get marooned and curses 

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and portents then like so 
there's just like it's it's 

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definitely more complicated than
previous 12 years, but it's 

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still very close to like that. 
Core game loop is basically the 

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same. 
It's more eventful per hex than 

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previous games. 
So it is a little bit of a 

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slower one comparatively, but 
and the quest itself is also 

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like I decided to push this one 
a little further with you've got

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like your big bad that you're 
trying to like demon Lord and 

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the original game. 
You've got like this big bad in 

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a known location. 
You're like trying to get to 

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them. 
You've got to get the item or 

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like, you know, just get what 
you need to get them and beat 

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the game if you can. 
This one has a little bit more 

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of the kind of three pronged 
quest, but you're like, oh, I 

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found the sea Wizards keep, but 
I can't get inside. 

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I need to go and figure out. 
I got there's options, but I got

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to find something that's going 
to get me inside. 

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Once I've found something, once 
I've got inside, well, I still 

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actually need something that's 
going to help like help me 

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defeat the sea wizard. 
So there's like these three. 

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I was just thinking a lot about 
things like some of my favorite 

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fiction in fantasy has that kind
of like, oh, you got a quest, 

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but then you got to turn back 
and quest for this other thing 

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and like a smaller one to like 
build up to get there. 

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So I wanted to build, make this 
one a little more epic that way.

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And I've been super stoked with 
that feeling of like, oh, I got 

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the item. 
Oh, shit. 

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I still have a lot of ways to 
go. 

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But yeah. 
So it's that's a really long 

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way, man. 
It's saying yes. 

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Very cool. 
That's and I am. 

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So I read the. 
I read the a version that you 

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sent me that is a word doc. 
So you know, in, in, in 12 years

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classically there there's a, 
there's a time limit. 

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Yeah. 
Is there going to be? 

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Is there a time limit with this 
one? 

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Because I don't know if I 
scrolled past it I may have. 

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Yeah, there is. 
You still have 12 years. 

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You've got 12 years because 
every 12 years, like the the 

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ritual that the sea wizard is 
performing to try to find the 

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corpse of his long dead bride, 
it's a 12 year long ritual. 

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If you don't stop the ritual 
within 12 years, then he drains 

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the sea and the rest of the 
world becomes flooded. 

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But then he can't remember 
anything because he's so sick 

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with grief that he just starts 
over again. 

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So that is also plays into like 
the the cyclical nature of it is

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a core thing for like all the 12
years games. 

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And I've been talking about this
a little bit more with this one 

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than I had previously. 
But every big bad every like 12 

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years, like demon Lord, like at 
sea, like the core game, I 

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always have some sort of 
allegory in mind that I'm kind 

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of like working around. 
Like, if you think about like I 

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was feeling real depressed about
capitalism when I made 12 years 

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the first time around. 
And I'm not going to get too 

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deep into that except for to say
that like I spent a lot of time 

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thinking about what if there's 
this enemy that you can never 

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defeat? 
You can't win. 

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Winning is just putting things 
off another 12 years, just 

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making it so you can survive a 
little longer, keeping the world

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OK for a little bit longer while
doom is still impending. 

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And that is kind of how I would 
like approach each thing is like

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what is something in the world 
that just makes me feel 

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hopeless? 
And then what if I try to just 

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enjoy the process of the fight 
and the adventure against it, 

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even though I know we're fucked?
No, things are going great. 

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What are you talking about? 
Yeah, right. 

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So this one, ecological grief is
the term I've been using to talk

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about like the big inspiration 
for me. 

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I've always kind of wanted to 
see how I can tackle something 

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with environment without feeling
like I'm hitting you over the 

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head of like, treat the 
environment good, recycle, you 

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know, like, we're just trying 
to, like, expand on those 

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feelings. 
Yeah. 

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Telling my kids don't go out to 
play. 

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The air's toxic. 
Feels shitty. 

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Yeah, it's pretty bad. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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But I mean, Dibley, ask a little
bit, you know, where you can get

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the message across without IA 
lot of people realizing that 

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it's there since, you know, 
Ghibli is nothing but happy 

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sunshine and and you know, 
Verdon Hills, you know, Yeah, 

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don't watch Prince. 
Mon OK, you know. 

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Yeah, my favorite wizard is 
Ponyo is definitely an influence

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on There we go. 
Classic. 

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My favorite was always in or 
like my favorite like bit 

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obviously modern OK is literally
the entire thing is about like 

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logic and stuff like that. 
But my favorite was always the 

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river spirit in spirited away 
and how many people don't get 

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that? 
And it's it's great question 

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question. 
Has anyone beaten the Sea 

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Wizard? 
Not yet that I know of. 

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I know that it's gotten close. 
So like this one is not as 

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brutal as Demon Lord in terms of
like demon Lords meant to be 

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like NES Ninja Turtles difficult
and like 12 years was meant to 

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be like you're going to lose 
most of the time, but you'll 

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you'll win eventually. 
Demon Lord. 

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I'm still waiting on somebody 
telling me that they've won. 

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I've gotten to the demon Lord 
and almost beaten, but never 

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have it. 
Has it happened? 

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And that's same thing with 12 
years at sea so far. 

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So I know it's possible and I 
think that it's not as brutal as

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Demon Lord based on play 
testing. 

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00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,760
Reads less brutal. 
I haven't had a chance to run it

184
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because of my transitioning 
jobs, but it does read less 

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brutal so. 
It's also like the 12 years 

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passes a lot slower in this one 
than in other games. 

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So like in the other 12 years at
the sea, there are 12 years 

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game. 
So that's a kind of a there's 

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two sides of that one and makes 
a little less brutal, which 

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you're like not going to be. 
I did lose to the years passing,

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but it also extends the gameplay
a bit, which I've enjoyed having

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some stuff that's like faster 
and this one be like, oh, I'm 

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going to sit down and play this 
in more sessions and maybe some 

194
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,720
other ones. 
But that part's less brutal. 

195
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,280
There's like a, you know, sea 
monsters attack your boat before

196
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they attack you. 
So that's less brutal, but they 

197
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,720
also knock you that you can get 
knocked overboard, just die 

198
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,440
because you fell off the boat. 
So there's still brutality. 

199
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:27,280
Yeah, I I've never beaten the, 
I've beaten the, the, I've 

200
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,760
beaten 12 years plenty of times,
but I've not beaten the demon 

201
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Lord. 
I think I've only even got to 

202
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the demon Lord like one time of 
all the times that I've played 

203
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,840
it. 
But you were saying that this 

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takes, I think at one point you 
said that there's more per hex 

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and that this you just said this
takes longer. 

206
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What what, what's the more per 
hex? 

207
00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:51,480
Like what? 
What's the difference between 12

208
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years, Demon Lord, etcetera and 
then this? 

209
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,280
Sure. 
So in there's a little bit more 

210
00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,800
that can happen every time you 
enter a hex in this. 

211
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,720
So like I'm going to pull this 
up real quick and just kind of 

212
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walk through like so we do 
rolling. 

213
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,320
You enter a new hex near like at
sea. 

214
00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:20,880
There's you'll roll a die to see
like your hex terrain basically 

215
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,800
right? 
Like same as Cora as like 12 

216
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,400
years, there's a little 
difference of like you select a 

217
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,760
die, a different die based on if
it's if you're adjacent to 

218
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,200
islands or not. 
So it just like plays with some 

219
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,680
of the probabilities of like 
encountering the islands versus 

220
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,280
getting out to sea. 
And just like it's just more 

221
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,440
open expanse. 
But in that I'm just going to 

222
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:48,960
Scroll down here and look at. 
So if you have an island, if you

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00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,160
run across an island, it's your 
basic like you roll to see which

224
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,760
island it is. 
And this gets more broken out to

225
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,480
like the Hexploring expansion. 
Every island type, there's ten 

226
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,960
different island types and they 
all have different encounters 

227
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:07,160
and creature tables. 
But if you're just at sea, even 

228
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,680
if you get like one of the 
results is like calm seas. 

229
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,560
But if you get calm seas, then 
there's a portent. 

230
00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,400
So some sort of thing happens. 
It's usually got to do with a 

231
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,760
bird. 
And that might be really like 

232
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,000
negligible. 
It might give you good luck, 

233
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,360
might be bad luck. 
Or it could like spawn as a 

234
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,000
little bit of a series of 
events. 

235
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:33,000
You know, I was just playing and
I was like cool calm seas and 

236
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:39,120
then an Albatross just like flew
in to one of my characters and 

237
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,560
they both died. 
And then it's like the party was

238
00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:47,520
seeing this is like Oh my God, 
First off and Albatross just 

239
00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,280
killed him. 
That's a terrible omen. 

240
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,400
So they freaked out and it 
started a mutiny. 

241
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:58,960
The mutiny happened and another 
person died, but also then 

242
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,760
turned out there's like 3 
stowaways that they didn't know 

243
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,120
about that come out during the 
mutiny and then more of them 

244
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,520
that they fight until there's 
enough people to sit like just 

245
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:14,200
be like be on this boat and the 
people dying adds like to that 

246
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:14,880
tension. 
The mute. 

247
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,760
So the mutiny checks can 
sometimes it it's fast when it 

248
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,040
happens, but it is one of those 
things that you get these little

249
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,480
chains that happen. 
There's still like a few like it

250
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,160
might be a few minutes to work 
it out. 

251
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,320
But as opposed to that all 
started from a calm seas, 

252
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,040
whereas in 12 years a quiet 
forest is clearing. 

253
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:45,400
You just like go through, right?
So my brain went weird into a 

254
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,280
side thing, the right of the 
Ancient Mariner. 

255
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,520
That's what it was. 
I when you said albatross, I was

256
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,200
like, albatross is amazing. 
It's such a good thing. 

257
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,560
It's such a good bit of thing. 
And then my brain said, where 

258
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,320
did that originate from? 
And it's Rhyme of the Ancient 

259
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,160
Mariner with albatross around 
the neck. 

260
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:00,920
And. 
Yeah. 

261
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,000
One of the first things I did 
when I started making this is I 

262
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,880
grabbed a copy of Grabbing the 
Ancient Mirror that I have off 

263
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:07,560
the bookshelf and just like 
reread it. 

264
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,600
And I was like, of course I have
to put an albatross in this. 

265
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,920
So no, literally all I think 
about like, I don't know, like 

266
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,840
when I hear albatross, that's 
literally the first and only 

267
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,160
thing I think about is like that
it's an awful omen. 

268
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,000
Like it being wrapped there on 
someone's neck, like the whole 

269
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,880
thing. 
So like when I was reading the 

270
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,800
original playtest stock that you
sent me and I saw the albatross,

271
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,200
I was like, fuck yes, this is 
this is what we need. 

272
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,240
And also like if you're in the 
middle of the ocean, you pretty 

273
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,080
much have like fish, sea 
monsters and birds. 

274
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,720
And that's the things that are 
going to that you're going to be

275
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,080
able to get. 
So got a lot of. 

276
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,480
Birds prizes in there that 
you'll have to figure out like 

277
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,760
how the hell the what's a cat 
doing here floating around? 

278
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:52,920
It's like flow, you know what's 
all the Anyone see the animated 

279
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,040
movie Flow? 
I did not. 

280
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,880
I haven't yet, but I will. 
I hate cats and I've seen it. 

281
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,200
The father of cats is not. 
Apparently you're you're. 

282
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,680
Wrong for hating cats. 
You're the way you feel about 

283
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:11,560
cats is wrong, so. 
I feel that I'm not wrong I. 

284
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,760
Love my cats very dearly but I 
also hate them because every 

285
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,320
morning at 5:00 one of them is 
like I know what will get you 

286
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,320
out of bed and scratches and 
scratches and scratches at my 

287
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:24,920
door. 
Yeah, but you hate them in the 

288
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,240
playful way Ryan hates them so. 
Yeah, I hate, love them. 

289
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,840
So sorry, Ryan. 
You you'll have to. 

290
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,360
When you're dead, you're going 
to probably be surrounded by 

291
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,840
cats because you know they live 
in the afterlife. 

292
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,880
That sucks. 
I'll I'll, I'll die with my 

293
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:41,920
snake plant in my arms and it 
will come with me. 

294
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,440
My snake plant had a baby and 
now I have to uproot the 

295
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,560
motherfucker to cut the thing 
off and I'm very upset about it.

296
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:52,240
But that is neither here nor 
there. 

297
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,960
Did you know a snake plant baby 
is called a pup, by the way? 

298
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,120
Oh wow. 
That's cute. 

299
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,720
Yeah. 
Anyway, so getting back to this.

300
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,920
So mutiny is fun. 
Yeah. 

301
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,200
So talk to me a little bit about
mutiny, because that's not 

302
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,720
really a thing that happens in 
any of the other games. 

303
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,000
And if you're going to have AC 
game, obviously you have to have

304
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:17,839
mutiny. 
That's just that's of course you

305
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:20,760
have to right. 
So, so first of all, like, 

306
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:21,880
obviously you have to have 
mutiny. 

307
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,800
So when you were thinking of 
mutiny, tell me how. 

308
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,160
I guess as much as you want to 
say whether how it works or not,

309
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,680
but also what point you were 
like God have fucking mutiny in 

310
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,160
here. 
I knew right away if I'm making 

311
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,400
AC game, it's got to have 
mutiny. 

312
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:40,320
I will say I I made like 3 
versions of 12 years at sea and 

313
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:46,040
threw them out because it just 
wasn't feeling 12 years and it 

314
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,360
finally clicked them like Oh, I 
don't I'm not making a pirate 

315
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:52,400
game and this is not about naval
warfare. 

316
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:57,080
This is like like Clark Ashton 
Smith, Ursula K Look when like 

317
00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,400
name like Edgar Rice Burroughs, 
like this stuff. 

318
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,520
Harry. 
I talked about this in the like 

319
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,440
kick starts with like Harry 
house and films, right, like 

320
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,040
that stuff gets me and just like
it. 

321
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,480
I'm like thinking about like 
Odysseus, right, like does that 

322
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:18,080
sort of like exploration and 
adventure, really like adventure

323
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,880
on the on the seas as opposed to
like the pirate naval combat's 

324
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,640
like fuck the British Empire, 
whatever. 

325
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,880
I don't want to do a thing 
that's like really like 

326
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,720
Imperial, you know? 
So like I want to. 

327
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,840
I was like, something's feeling 
off about this. 

328
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,000
Everything I did, I was like 
just naval combat just didn't 

329
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,800
seem like it fit really into the
12 years vibe. 

330
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:45,080
And that's a super fun. 
I enjoy that. 

331
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:50,480
But then when it kind of hit me,
I was like, no, I got it. 

332
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,720
Now I just need to like rewatch 
some Harry House and films and 

333
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,400
spend more time with some of 
this stuff, this fiction. 

334
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,280
I love this. 
Sorry, what was the question? 

335
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:01,840
Right. 
I just like Rainbow to hunt 

336
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,960
about that. 
I lost my thread. 

337
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,840
So, so, so how? 
How big of a deal is mutiny in 

338
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,400
12 years? 
Yeah. 

339
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,880
Yeah, see, I just totally went 
off in a different direction. 

340
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,160
Mutiny is. 
You. 

341
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,160
That is literally what the 
weekly scroll is made of. 

342
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,720
I think 90% of everything we've 
ever said is just a rant or a 

343
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,040
tangent. 
So you are you're, you're 

344
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,160
fitting right in. 
Cool, thanks. 

345
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:33,640
So Mutiny is there's like we 
talked about how there's a 

346
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,000
little less brutal in some ways 
more beer than others. 

347
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,400
Like there's also a lot more 
variety. 

348
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,480
So this adventure I just did 
recently, Mutiny was a way 

349
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,760
bigger deal because there once 
the tension starts hitting, 

350
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:51,480
mutiny checks increase the 
threat, the mutiny threat as 

351
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,680
well. 
So like the more it happens, the

352
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,320
more likely it's going to keep 
happening. 

353
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,000
And almost all of my party was 
killed by each other as opposed 

354
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,360
to creatures. 
So that was even got down to 

355
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:05,080
like there's two party members 
left. 

356
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,680
One of them is a pacifist. 
As long as there's two party 

357
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,120
members left, they you can get 
into a mutiny. 

358
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,680
But because one was a pacifist, 
it just meant the other just 

359
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,280
murdered the other one. 
And that vessel needed at least 

360
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:23,560
two people to man it. 
So then he was marooned of his 

361
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,360
own doing. 
And I was like, that is so like 

362
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,680
seafaring, adventure, sad 
despair. 

363
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:36,120
But the way the mutiny works is 
like, there's a few events that 

364
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:39,840
can trigger a mutiny check. 
And there's a few events that 

365
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,280
like you add a mutiny point and 
you keep track of them. 

366
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:47,760
You roll AD 12. 
And if you are, if you roll less

367
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,760
than your mutiny points total, 
then a mutiny happens. 

368
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,480
Anytime a mutiny happens, 
somebody's going to die. 

369
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,880
If there's any captains, it's 
got to be at least like, 

370
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:04,080
captains always die first, 
otherwise it's a randomly rolled

371
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,800
party member. 
Any stowaways come out whenever 

372
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,200
a mutiny happens. 
So you might have more party 

373
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,520
members you didn't like. 
You know you've got them, but 

374
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,600
they're in the hiding. 
You don't know who they are, and

375
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:21,120
so you've got this. 
Like it can end up changing the 

376
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:24,720
party dynamic. 
Luckily, you can't have a mutiny

377
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,200
with one person, but that's 
basically how the mutiny works. 

378
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,680
So like if somebody dies, that 
freaks people out and they're 

379
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,240
more likely to have a mutiny. 
There's a some of the importance

380
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,640
I mentioned, like we talked 
about the albatross, things like

381
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:43,960
that, Yeah. 
There are a lot of birds. 

382
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,400
There are a lot of birds. 
What do you see though? 

383
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:48,960
That's kind of all you really 
got. 

384
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,560
A murder of crows immediately 
followed by a duck swims by. 

385
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,240
You got a family in your glass? 
Still flying stuff? 

386
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,360
A pigeon crashes a magpie. 
An albatross? 

387
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,720
Half this D12 portents table is 
birds. 

388
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,480
Yep. 
I almost made it a bird portent 

389
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,960
table, but I spent a lot of time
with like reading up on 

390
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,960
superstitions and like lore from
like that. 

391
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,160
And so much of it is birds, 
which like Hunter mentioned, 

392
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,400
that's like all you got out 
there, right? 

393
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,240
Or maybe you mentioned, I don't 
remember, but that's like all 

394
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,320
that's out there. 
Hardly, right? 

395
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,440
But then there's weird ones like
I was like, oh, I definitely am 

396
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,840
putting this in. 
Apparently if a bucket floats 

397
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,920
by, that's a big deal. 
So there's things like that. 

398
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:42,480
Most of those do come from like 
sea lore. 

399
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,200
And there's a lot of C lower 
stuff. 

400
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,720
No, I'm so and when you go to 
importance Table 2, you really 

401
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,800
could have just flipped it 
together and made because 

402
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,560
importance table 2:00. 
You got a ladybird, you got a 

403
00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:00,160
white owl, you got a Raven, you 
got a swallow, you got you 

404
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,520
easily could have done an entire
D12. 

405
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,480
I think there's ten of them at 
least right now of, of all of, 

406
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,960
of birds across the 2. 
So, and if you mix, if you mix 

407
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,200
in the bugs with the black 
beetle and a spider, it is. 

408
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,120
But yeah, I mean, I mean Navy 
people, there's so much. 

409
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:19,640
What's really interesting, I 
read this thing a while ago 

410
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,400
about the English language and 
how much it's affected by 

411
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,720
things. 
And the two things that English 

412
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:32,720
language is affected by most 
kind of is more recently, 

413
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,160
sports. 
A lot of the things that we say 

414
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,800
in the ways that we communicate 
are through sports or like 

415
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,080
language that people don't 
understand is a sports term. 

416
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,320
And part of that. 
There's so much of the language 

417
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,320
that we use that is nautical 
themed that people don't 

418
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,760
understand is nautical themed. 
And I'm, as I'm saying this, I'm

419
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,080
trying to come up with like all 
of the examples, but there's a 

420
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,920
million of them. 
Take a different tack, yeah? 

421
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,360
Because you're, you're tacking 
on a boat like there's so much 

422
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:05,880
and it's really interesting. 
The, the nautical part is what I

423
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,120
really read a ton about because 
so much of like what humans did 

424
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:13,960
for a long time, once we started
going across the oceans was 

425
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,760
around water and boats. 
And that's how we move stuff 

426
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,240
around. 
That's how we travel. 

427
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,440
That's how we got cargo to and 
from places. 

428
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,760
So, and, and a lot of people 
were so close to the shores for 

429
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,760
so long that it became a huge 
part of our language. 

430
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,440
And then more more recently, a 
lot of our language, like I 

431
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,160
said, is, is based around 
sports. 

432
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,760
And yeah, like, like, like you 
got to go to the meeting and get

433
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,000
them to play ball, you know what
I mean? 

434
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,800
You got to negotiate things like
that. 

435
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,240
Yeah, but but the amount of 
nautical references are crazy. 

436
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,080
And then even like, gosh, half 
the tattoos out there that 

437
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,760
people have are, are nautical 
themes still to this day. 

438
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,640
I don't think, I don't think the
nautical star is quite as 

439
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,400
popular it was when, you know, 2
decades ago when we were young. 

440
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,600
But that swallows, like all 
sorts of stuff is all very, very

441
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,000
much. 
I have a, I have a biker on my 

442
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,160
arm that says never sink. 
You know, whatever. 

443
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,360
This is a joke. 
By the way, I do not have an 

444
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:16,000
anchor on my arm that says don't
do the thing specifically 

445
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,000
anchors are made for, but. 
Even like tattoo culture in 

446
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,560
general kind of started as a 
sailor on the water as a sailor 

447
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,640
thing, so. 
Sailor Jerry, like who the 

448
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,800
alcohol is named after the 
person who like made like 

449
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,080
brought tattooing here or 
something like that, I don't 

450
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,440
know. 
Something something about like 

451
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,960
the like the old, like old like 
traditional style tattooing and 

452
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:38,920
stuff. 
I think they're one of the 

453
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,360
people that popularized it or 
something. 

454
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,520
But but yeah, it's just really 
interesting how much the ocean 

455
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,560
effects a culture without, I 
think a lot of people realizing 

456
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,240
how deeply it's ingrained. 
Another change, and I did look 

457
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,240
up novical terms and dead in the
water is a good one. 

458
00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:00,720
You know, give them a wide 
berth, tie down, loose ends, get

459
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,120
underway. 
Yeah. 

460
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,640
That's what I'm saying. 
Like so much of the way that we 

461
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,760
communicate is, is nautical 
because we were so deeply tied 

462
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,720
of the ocean for so long. 
Yeah. 

463
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,320
Well, it's cool to me that also 
developed its own sort of 

464
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,920
culture and like set of lore, 
because I think a lot about lore

465
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,080
being so grounded in location 
and like, whoa, I love fairy 

466
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,000
shit. 
You guys know this you. 

467
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,040
Yeah, especially like, I like 
fairy stuff from all over, but I

468
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,800
especially get interested in 
like the old fairy stories of 

469
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,920
Ireland, right? 
Like, and it's fascinating to me

470
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:42,160
that like sea lore, it's about, 
it's not about the locale. 

471
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,160
It's about the way you're like 
the mode of travel, right? 

472
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:51,880
Like, and it becomes its own 
sort of, it is geographical and 

473
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,480
that you're on the sea, but it's
really like a different kind of 

474
00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,160
geography. 
Well, even even different parts 

475
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,600
of the ocean have different 
stuff around it. 

476
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,800
Like I lived on the East Coast 
for a really long time and on 

477
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,600
the East Coast everything is 
fucking nautical themes. 

478
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,920
Like if you go to like the 
Jersey Shore or something, 

479
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,520
everyone's house has like ropes 
and, and, and wheels and anchors

480
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,720
and all sorts of stuff. 
And then I moved to California 

481
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,080
and everything out here is like 
tropical themes. 

482
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,440
Like you don't really see a lot 
of like anchors and shit out 

483
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:25,880
here. 
You see like palm trees and 

484
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,080
surfboards and stuff. 
So it's like, I know it's a 

485
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,400
different ocean, Pacific, 
Atlantic, but like it's still 

486
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,920
the ocean. 
And it's very, it was really 

487
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,280
interesting to me when I first 
got out here and realized how 

488
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,640
deeply, deeply different the 
culture around a giant body of 

489
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,080
water is just based on which 
ocean you're at. 

490
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,520
Yeah, absolutely. 
I mean, we had like I lived on 

491
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,080
Whidbey Island in Puget Sound, 
so like very different Pacific 

492
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,720
and there there was a lot of 
like people like we got ropes 

493
00:27:54,800 --> 00:28:00,000
and a life say like Saber thing 
like hanging on the wall or like

494
00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:03,240
a lot of glass balls. 
No. 

495
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,120
And Nets things in Nets. 
Aeronautical, yeah. 

496
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,120
Yeah, I'd like to submit. 
One more partial tangent before 

497
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:15,240
we get back to actually talking 
things we're supposed to talk 

498
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,080
about. 
I was scrolling through our Max 

499
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,720
Moon videos and it's fun. 
You can watch Max's hair length 

500
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,920
grow over time. 
Like each one, your hair is 

501
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,760
progressively longer and longer 
and it's the longest it's been 

502
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,760
in this one right now. 
It's really amazing. 

503
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,840
Yeah, it's growing off the 
screen. 

504
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,680
At this point, you guys don't 
actually know where it stops. 

505
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,200
Yeah, but you like 3 years ago 
when we did the first episode, 

506
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:48,200
but by the way, episode 17. 1717
This is officially episode What 

507
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,320
268. 
Yeah. 

508
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,560
But do the the new numbering 
that we're doing where we've 

509
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,480
aggregate everything into one 
single line instead of it being 

510
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,240
like multiple series, this is 2,
Yes. 

511
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,640
What was it, Ryan? 
Sorry. 268 I think. 268 Yeah, 

512
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,000
that does sound right, yeah. 
So in episode 17, yeah, you 

513
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,040
have, you have very short hair, 
you know. 

514
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,840
It's crazy. 
The first time we talked to you 

515
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,000
was 250 episodes ago. 
Yeah, that's. 

516
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,520
Wild y'all have been steady 
making episodes. 

517
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,240
Yeah, we still do this, Yeah. 
Yeah, every now and then, but 

518
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,000
but yeah, so gosh, there. 
What's interesting too is like 

519
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:35,520
there is so much in this 
compared to 12 years. 

520
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,760
Like I was actually talking to 
someone recently about 12 years 

521
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,720
and they had thoughts. 
I had thoughts. 

522
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,640
And it made me think even more 
deeply about 12 years. 

523
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,160
And the thing that I really 
enjoy about it, and it is a 

524
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,160
little bit, what's the word I'm 
trying to think of here that I 

525
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,480
don't want to say like scenic, 
almost like I can like pull it 

526
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,040
out, take a couple hexes, take 
the time to stop, grab some 

527
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,880
colored pencils, like draw my 
maps and do all that kind of 

528
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,920
stuff. 
And how starkly different that 

529
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:07,040
is to like like demon Lord, 
which does feel just like brutal

530
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,640
when I really want to like 
torture myself a little bit. 

531
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,480
Like I'll sit down and try to 
find a hell mouth and like go 

532
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,280
through the whole thing and then
like die fucking immediately. 

533
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,760
And, and demon Lord. 
But 12 years like I showed off, 

534
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,560
I don't remember what episode it
was, but I, I literally have 

535
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,280
like a travel notebook that's 
already just like a couple empty

536
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,400
things and then like 12 years 
demon Lord, a campaign journal. 

537
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,520
And anytime I go out, I just 
grab with because I'm like, I 

538
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,000
got 30 minutes. 
Like I can do a couple exits of 

539
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,360
this game just kind of casually 
I think maybe casual. 

540
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,640
Was it by the? 
Way. 

541
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,000
God, the fucking blackouts I get
while we're streaming is crazy, 

542
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,360
but there is this just feels 
like more dense, like it's 

543
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,360
definitely something that I feel
like again that I would want to 

544
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,400
sit down when I have like more 
time because like it feels like 

545
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,000
you said that each one is going 
to be a little bit more in depth

546
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,600
and and things. 
Yeah, I think when I've been 

547
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,720
playing it, I'm doing it and 
like 20 to 30 minute settings 

548
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,400
and I wouldn't want to do any 
less than that probably with 

549
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,800
this one. 
Whereas with 12 years, I feel 

550
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,280
like in 20-30 minutes I could 
get through quite a bit. 

551
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,040
I used to keep a little tiny 
tube of tiny dice in my pocket 

552
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,360
so I could just like anytime 
play it a little bit. 

553
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:33,840
But yeah, so this one, it's it 
is longer, not not by a lot, but

554
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:39,320
it definitely like one things 
I've been really enjoying when I

555
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,080
made 12 years originally, I 
didn't mind that there wasn't a 

556
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,440
ton of variety like the 
original. 

557
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,640
And it doesn't matter what hex 
you land in the encounters and 

558
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,120
creature tables are the same 
that we did the exploring 

559
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,680
expansion, which I was really 
excited about to have a little 

560
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,280
more variety. 
Like if it's a marsh versus 

561
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,320
hills, you got different 
possibilities, right? 

562
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,400
This one really leans into that 
even more so. 

563
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,440
So it's like, oh, I can play. 
I think even with the original 

564
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,120
12 years, you can play 2 games 
and they can be very different 

565
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,800
from each other. 
But I feel like 12 years at sea,

566
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,280
you can play 2 games and they 
can be 100% different from each 

567
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,600
other. 
So that's been fun. 

568
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,200
One of the things that's in all 
the big expansions because 

569
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,960
village expansion is, is like 
you said, it's kind of more like

570
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,840
an add on to the game. 
Demon Lord and 12 years are 

571
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,240
similar but like still 
different. 

572
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,920
But both of them still have hex 
blurring and dungeoneering so 

573
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,720
how? 
Like you can't really 

574
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:44,040
dungeoneer. 
That is a part of this. 

575
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,280
Yeah. 
So, So tell me how so explain 

576
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,360
how you kind of brought that 
into 12 years of seat. 

577
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:58,560
So there's still dungeon 
delving, but it's rarer and in 

578
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,960
this one you can only find 
dungeons on islands. 

579
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,440
And unlike like in 12 years, 
you're like looking all around 

580
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,440
the land to find, you're like 
find a dungeon entrance here or 

581
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,720
find a dungeon here. 
Either the island has a dungeon 

582
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,240
entrance or it does not. 
So for a while I went back and 

583
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,040
forth on how to play with that. 
Like I was like, oh, when you 

584
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,080
get to an island, then you're 
going to explore that island. 

585
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,480
And that was like way too much. 
So that's like, oh, wait, if we 

586
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:33,320
treat let the island just be a 
hex, just like AC hex, just like

587
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,400
if you're in another hex, then 
it works totally. 

588
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:41,040
So it's rare to find a dungeon. 
And when you do the thing that 

589
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,160
you're really, I mean, this is 
where it comes into like to get 

590
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,280
into the Sea Wizard's keep to 
fight the big bad, you got to 

591
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,320
get something that lets you get 
in in there. 

592
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,520
There's a few things that can 
get you in there. 

593
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,880
It's like a magic key can get 
you in if you learn the magic 

594
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,200
pass phrase, that can get you 
in. 

595
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,280
If you find the sea wizard 
staff, that can get you in, but 

596
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,400
there's not a lot that can open 
it. 

597
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,480
So you still have to do some 
dungeon delving to try to find 

598
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,000
some stuff, though there's some 
ways around it. 

599
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,520
You probably could get through a
whole game without having to go 

600
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,239
into a dungeon, yeah. 
Huh. 

601
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,560
Yeah, having the whole island 
just BX makes it like super nice

602
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,520
to just be like, there you go, 
That's one right there. 

603
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,000
Seem like a long decision. 
And then also let me pull. 

604
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,280
Let me pull the thing up again. 
So tell me about that beautiful 

605
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:42,760
art. 
Yeah, OK, so Caustic does 

606
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,000
amazing work. 
I've been wanting to work them 

607
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,360
at some point in the future 
something. 

608
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,520
And I just had only been focused
on his color work and it's so 

609
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,600
good and so cool. 
So I hadn't really considered 

610
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,320
him for 12 years stuff until I 
saw another piece that he posted

611
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,120
there was black and white and 
seafaring themed. 

612
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,680
I was like, Oh my God, this is 
like 100% the kind of thing I'm 

613
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,040
looking for. 
So I hit him up. 

614
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,400
He was excited to do it and 
absolutely amazing to work with.

615
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,640
Like everything that like just 
totally got the spirit of the 

616
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,200
game right away. 
And like every piece I think 

617
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:27,840
just really like captures the 
like the exact vibes that I 

618
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,200
wanted to go for. 
It's got the his work. 

619
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:34,440
There's this stuff he's doing 
with patterning that really I 

620
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,640
think gives it a more mythic 
element. 

621
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:43,560
It feels almost like it could be
out of a book of like a say 

622
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,080
fairy tale, but like not like a,
you know what I mean? 

623
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:53,440
Like, and I just love this stuff
and it when the more we I was 

624
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,720
looking, I was like, this 
reminds me so much of Toby and I

625
00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:02,400
just adore and yeah, it's I love
it. 

626
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,440
I love it very much. 
I think it's cool to see. 

627
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,080
It's black and white work more. 
And I'm like, wow, this is, I 

628
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,160
don't know. 
I just, yeah, it's, it's got 

629
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,200
this great energy and the 
patterning. 

630
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:22,400
So it's like teeters between 
very representational and more 

631
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,720
abstracted as well. 
So I think it's really cool. 

632
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,160
Yeah, it I mean, I so when you 
said caustic, like there's 

633
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,400
something that I followed on 
Instagram for such a long time 

634
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,520
and it is interesting to see the
black and white stuff because 

635
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,560
one of the things that I've 
always noticed about the work is

636
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,440
like the vibrant contrasting 
colors and stuff. 

637
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,960
So it totally makes sense. 
But the what I have up on the 

638
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,960
page right now is like that, 
that last page in the, the thing

639
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,960
where it's actually got like the
sea wizard with the sword stuff.

640
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,480
It's such a beautiful piece, 
like the the the kind of like 

641
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,080
the angle that it's drawn from 
everything. 

642
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,480
There's so much movement. 
It's gorgeous and not like 

643
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:07,120
perfect choice for for this. 
Yeah, that piece just kills. 

644
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,360
I mean, like I look at that 
every time I get. 

645
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,640
I'm like, when I was doing 
layout, I was like, man, should 

646
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,720
I move this section up forward? 
I was like, no, it doesn't make 

647
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:19,240
sense to, but I just, I was like
debating and changing the layout

648
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:21,840
just because the piece I want. 
I was like, oh, that's a nice 

649
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,240
reward. 
As you're getting to the end of 

650
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:25,480
the book, you just see this 
amazing piece, but it felt a 

651
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,040
little weird to put such a 
beautiful piece towards the 

652
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,000
back. 
You know what I mean? 

653
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,920
I. 
Don't know, I think it's an 

654
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,760
appropriate place like for like 
where it is in the book, you 

655
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,200
know, it's almost like a build 
up. 

656
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,080
You know, you're you're going 
through the book and you get 

657
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,080
towards the end. 
It's like this the really about 

658
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,680
the sea wizard and there's like 
massive amazing piece. 

659
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,240
I mean the the pieces throughout
the entire book are like great. 

660
00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:53,080
Like I really do love the like 
the sea monster, the Kraken, and

661
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,840
then the little ship that has 
like this very textured sail. 

662
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:05,240
Yeah, it's beautiful. 
Yeah, I'm trying to bring up the

663
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,200
browser page real quick over 
here because this is on 

664
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:11,960
Kickstarter right now. 
I know we said that a little bit

665
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,800
at the top. 
Thank goodness for Studio mode. 

666
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,760
So when people go back it 
because like we said, it's 

667
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,200
already, gosh, it's almost got 
like another 600 bucks since we 

668
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:30,000
started the show. 
So 12 years of sea into the 

669
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,280
unknown islands. 
It's on Kickstarter right now. 

670
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,240
It's got 24 days left. 
When people go back it, what can

671
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:37,640
people actually get with the 
project? 

672
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,320
Not the one-on-one, because 
that's gone gone, but, but 

673
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,440
what's all the rest of? 
Well, you got that. 

674
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:49,320
Some asshole I don't know. 
So we got, you know, the PDFs 

675
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,960
are available, we've got like 
really the full line of 12 year 

676
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,160
stuff is all available. 
So it's nice to be able to get 

677
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,160
everything kind of in one spot 
for folks who are new to it or 

678
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,040
if you, there's just some things
you're missing and you know, 

679
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,440
sticking with classic 
production, like we'll be screen

680
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,600
printing the covers on beautiful
paper that is like, I love 

681
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,320
French paper, like made in US. 
It's like funny that it's called

682
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,200
French paper, but it's still 
like, and like a screen print 

683
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:21,640
with like silver metallic ink 
for the like 12 years at sea. 

684
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,320
So it's like that blue and 
silver theme and then we've got 

685
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,560
like 12 years core. 
We've got all the different 

686
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,240
stuff. 
The one of the cool new things 

687
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:34,040
I'm super stoked about is this. 
We're doing a 12 years T-shirt 

688
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,360
finally. 
And we meant I talked about this

689
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,800
before the stream, but like 
perplexing Ruins has done some 

690
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,920
amazing work for 12 years and it
was really cool. 

691
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,440
I can pull this classic piece 
out from 12 years. 

692
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:51,160
That is the perplexing ruins 
depiction of the Lich King 

693
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,400
pulling the strings as there's 
like various, like over like the

694
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,040
landscape and like the sunken 
castle in the Yeah. 

695
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,080
So it's like there's just so 
much. 

696
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,160
Yeah, I love that piece. 
So we're using that for the 

697
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,880
T-shirt and I think it created, 
it's like a really perfect 

698
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,440
rendition of like what 12 years 
is about in like 1 little 

699
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,800
rectangle, you know? 
It's so great because you sent 

700
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:12,800
me that and you're like, does 
this say 12 years? 

701
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,120
I'm like, I don't think anything
else has ever said it more. 

702
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,840
That's literally a lynch king in
the back with a castle. 

703
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,520
What are you talking about? 
Like yeah, so shout out. 

704
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,680
I'm so. 
Tired and yeah, amazing. 

705
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,440
Artist. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

706
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:32,680
Also someone just like fantastic
to work with and has a really 

707
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,280
strong sense of style. 
Like you know when you see a 

708
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,480
piece, you know what He did it. 
Absolutely. 

709
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,640
Let's see here other things 
we've got the I'm doing some new

710
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,280
box storage. 
Boxes are like these really 

711
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:54,120
beautiful magnetic like hinge 
open kind of cigar style boxes 

712
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:59,160
that will be screen printed. 
And also like in the lead up to 

713
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,840
this, like, oh cool, I'm going 
to have these custom made to 

714
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,480
print on so that they're like a 
higher quality than ones we've 

715
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,920
used in the past. 
Ever since I started doing 

716
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,520
boxes, I've just had this battle
like really trying to get the 

717
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,360
box to be as nice as I wanted 
to. 

718
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,640
And so, yeah. 
Similar to this or different 

719
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,560
than the last one? 
It's going to be it's going to 

720
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,520
be the same style wise and look,
but the difference is that the 

721
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,720
actual like construction 
material is a denser rigid 

722
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:28,800
board. 
So they're going to be heavier 

723
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:34,440
and a little bit more durable. 
So I am. 

724
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,800
That's like one of the Super 
nerdy things I'm excited about. 

725
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,280
I was like, I like those boxes a
lot. 

726
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,680
And they're way better than the 
ones that I used to use before. 

727
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,280
Yeah. 
And then the new ones, I'm like,

728
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,440
cool, we're going to do some 
just like step it up a little 

729
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,320
bit more again. 
And. 

730
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,000
What pledge levels do you get 
the box at? 

731
00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:57,920
There's two different boxes. 
There's the blue one which is a 

732
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,400
Kickstarter exclusive, so we're 
not going to have that available

733
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,360
after the Kickstarter. 
And that's the CD chest level 

734
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,160
where it's like you get the 
storage box, you get all the 12 

735
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,600
year stuff, but you also get a 
special edition of 12 years that

736
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,760
is blue metallic ink. 
It's the Unknown Isles edition 

737
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,000
that is also going to be 
Kickstarter exclusive. 

738
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,080
So those two things won't be 
available elsewhere. 

739
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,600
Then we've got the Salty Dog 
tier. 

740
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:29,840
That is the one for folks who've
been playing 12 years from the 

741
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,040
beginning. 
You probably have most stuff, 

742
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,320
right? 
I see. 

743
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,240
So that one's got that same box,
but we're going to do that in 

744
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:41,120
the classic emerald green, just 
like the original 12 years 

745
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,000
cover. 
And then that'll come with the 

746
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,360
12 Years at Sea, Zen and that 
T-shirt we were just talking 

747
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,960
about. 
Hell yeah. 

748
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,440
I'm like so tempted to I've I 
did back at the salty dog level,

749
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:57,920
but I'm like man, maybe I should
do the sea chest. 

750
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,440
Maybe I just need another copy 
of everything just to get the 

751
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,200
blue box? 
I man, I've had people asking 

752
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:10,360
about this and I I the blue box 
available separately. 

753
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:16,320
And the real reason is because 
my God, screen printing on these

754
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,640
boxes is difficult. 
It is not as easy, it's not as 

755
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,440
fast, takes me a lot longer. 
And I learned my lesson when 

756
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:29,720
doing solitary defilement boxes.
I had to do 500 of those and it 

757
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:33,240
just about killed me. 
And I'm like, yeah, OK, so I 

758
00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:36,920
just got to put some limitations
on these things a little bit 

759
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,600
more. 
My inclination always, always 

760
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,560
like I can do it, it's fine, 
whatever, I'll make it available

761
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:43,680
as an add on. 
And yeah. 

762
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,400
I'll work myself to the bone, 
it's no big deal. 

763
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,440
Well, it's something I thought a
lot about and then people have 

764
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,440
been mentioning it and I totally
get it. 

765
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,400
And also this is one of the 
things that comes with like 

766
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,200
sometimes, sometimes making 
things myself by hand means I 

767
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,040
can be more flexible. 
Yeah, like I can make some 

768
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,960
weirder stuff or smaller run 
stuff, but sometimes it also 

769
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,720
means I have to be more 
thoughtful about like, oh, if I 

770
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:11,760
do too much more, I'm not going 
to be able to do it myself. 

771
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,880
And I like doing it myself. 
That's OK, I'll be very happy 

772
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,280
with the green box. 
So and. 

773
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:20,560
That's, I mean, that's one of 
the things. 

774
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,320
Too that I love about the work 
that you do and stuff. 

775
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,520
I mean, there are it makes me 
very sad that there are things 

776
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,440
that I I don't have of yours 
because I know there's only like

777
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,600
10 in the world. 
So I know when you moved. 

778
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,120
I like like a the collected 
abyss of hallucinations, working

779
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,840
with exalted funeral, Yoda. 
Do bigger production stuff, but 

780
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,240
for smaller projects, like 
they're saying there's only 100 

781
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:49,720
sucks if you miss out, you know,
I think that also rewards people

782
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:51,840
that like follow you more 
closely know when it's 

783
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,120
happening, coming along like 
waited at work at the computer 

784
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,200
refreshing for 5 minutes for the
Kickstarter to launch so that 

785
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,360
they can get the one of one 
those kind of people, you know 

786
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:07,000
so there's only. 
The balance between using it to 

787
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,960
kind of to manipulate behavior 
versus using it as a gift. 

788
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,040
And I'm always trying to keep it
in that second mode of like 

789
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,200
trying to make something cool 
for people that they're going to

790
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,160
enjoy and enjoy it being 
special. 

791
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,760
And with that may come that you 
also can't get it. 

792
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,440
So I'm not, I don't want to lean
into that in a way of like, oh, 

793
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,480
if I do it this way, I can 
really like I, you know, I try 

794
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,240
to, I do charge a bit more for 
handmade stuff because like it's

795
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,880
my labor and I'm going to charge
what I want to get for I'm so 

796
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,440
I'm doing it right. 
But like I also try not to 

797
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,600
charge. 
Like I see sometimes like things

798
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,720
that are like collectible prices
and it's like it's actually just

799
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:51,400
a different box. 
You check when you're ordering 

800
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,520
it from the printer. 
And I get it, especially if it's

801
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,000
like smaller run, but that's 
just not where my heart is, you 

802
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:06,760
know, like so sometimes I'm like
scarcity when it is artificial 

803
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,360
is something I've been thinking 
about from the beginning with 

804
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,920
this because there's like, 
there's definitely a scarcity 

805
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,960
aspect at play with a lot of the
stuff I make. 

806
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,640
And I've, I'm often like 
thinking, is that artificial 

807
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:24,560
scarcity or is that scarcity 
because I literally need to make

808
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:29,520
sure I'm not working too much or
I think I told you guys so long 

809
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,800
ago when I did the first run of 
abyss of hallucinations, my 

810
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,360
hands got all swollen. 
I had to like take two weeks off

811
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,200
of printing to let my hands 
recover. 

812
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,120
So I'm getting, but that's why I
like get help when I need to get

813
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:45,600
help. 
And also there's some things I'm

814
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,160
like, I'm doing this. 
So yeah, you just tapped into 

815
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,240
the like Hunter and you guys 
just tapped into one of the 

816
00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:54,520
things that there's a lot of 
things I kind of battle with 

817
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,640
even just like as Max moon game 
stuff has grown, like I don't 

818
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:04,240
sit in my basement screen 
printing and printing every page

819
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:07,560
and folding with the bone folder
and stapling everything myself 

820
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,520
anymore. 
I have like help, which is cool 

821
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,960
and I've got like an awesome 
rizagraph printer who she does 

822
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,760
like the rizagraph printing and 
then like buying stuff that I 

823
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,920
scream. 
But it's so it's like I still 

824
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:25,200
try to keep things like human 
possible, but I do often kind of

825
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,240
think about this thing of like 
got to be cautious about the 

826
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:34,360
idea of growth in general and 
like monetization and like all 

827
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,480
that like. 
Oh, you're doing capitalism 

828
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,560
wrong then you're you're 
supposed to, you know, you're. 

829
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,600
Supposed to automate everything,
work for the quality profit, 

830
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:44,720
yeah. 
Yeah, right. 

831
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,240
I want to do capitalism wrong. 
I also want to make money. 

832
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,000
But. 
I mean, that's like suffering 

833
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,000
from success, though, 
especially, I mean, especially 

834
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,680
with what you do. 
And like I said, well, like 

835
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,840
when, when, when I first started
following you and, and the scope

836
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,600
of, you know, abyss of 
hallucinations 1/2. 

837
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,040
I mean, look at, like I said, 
the collected abyss of 

838
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,120
hallucinations and the, the, the
breath that, that went and, and 

839
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,120
the scale that that went. 
But then also, like you said 

840
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:12,760
this, there's only going to be 
100 of these boxes. 

841
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,120
You're still doing it by hand. 
So like there, there is, there 

842
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:19,000
has to be, there is a balance. 
I'm sure that's hard to wrestle 

843
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,000
with, but it's not like you're 
saying, oh, there's only 100 and

844
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,760
they're going to cost five times
more than the green boxes. 

845
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,200
You know what I mean? 
Like there's a difference 

846
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:30,320
between artificial scarcity and 
and scarcity. 

847
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:36,320
It's when you manipulate to 
create that artificial scarcity.

848
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,400
Like you said, like these are 
two different covers of the 

849
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,720
book, like from the printer. 
They cost exactly the same, but 

850
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:43,600
this one's fancy. 
So I'm going to charge twice as 

851
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,760
much for this one. 
That's some bullshit. 

852
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,080
You know, it's, it's very 
different when I can pull 

853
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:52,720
something off the shelf where 
you sourced handmade paper and 

854
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:56,960
like have like handmade thread 
and like binded it yourself, you

855
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,280
know, and, and all this other 
stuff, like that's a very, very,

856
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,440
very different thing. 
And I very much have enjoyed 

857
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,360
that aspect of your work and 
respected that aspect. 

858
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:05,520
You worked for a really long 
time. 

859
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,360
I'm really glad that it's still 
part of your work. 

860
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:13,520
Even as you said, like they're 
like, it's almost impossible to 

861
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,880
not grow a little bit. 
You would almost be like having 

862
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,960
to like, you know, beat people 
away with the sticks with, with 

863
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:21,480
some of the way that your 
projects have gone and stuff 

864
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,440
like that to be able to like 
actively, purposely stay small 

865
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,280
versus just allowing a natural 
growth to happen. 

866
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,520
And I think you've accomplished 
that like extremely well since, 

867
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:32,760
you know, the years that we've 
known you. 

868
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:35,640
This is also one of the reasons 
we haven't talked about this 

869
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,280
yet, but the the merger with 
mid, like the creation of 

870
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:44,680
flaming hand buddy Jonica Stucky
like and previously like blazing

871
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,720
worlds, like this idea of like, 
Oh, we can like collectively 

872
00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:51,400
share resources and work 
together because we have like a 

873
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,840
really similar spirit of like 
interest in like a cult and 

874
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,760
gaming and stuff, right. 
And also like very like artist 

875
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,920
centric. 
So that is a huge thing where 

876
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:06,040
it's like, oh, some projects 
will be a flaming hand project 

877
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,480
and some will be a maximum games
project. 

878
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:13,160
And like, but in all of it, like
in those bigger projects, one of

879
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,320
the things we're excited about 
is being able to like contract 

880
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,920
with artists and really 
celebrate their work and pay 

881
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,400
them well, you know, like that 
sort of thing. 

882
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,600
And like do a little bit more 
mass production for that kind of

883
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,240
thing where we do some bigger 
projects. 

884
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:28,280
And there's things that I get 
excited about working on that 

885
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,880
need to be a bigger project. 
And there's things I get excited

886
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,640
about they're smaller. 
So it's nice to have that kind 

887
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:39,200
of like that partnership in 
place where we can kind of do 

888
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,520
both things and figure out which
one fits in which space the 

889
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,960
best. 
And like, I love publishing 

890
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,360
other people's stuff too. 
Like it's been really cool with 

891
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,880
solitary defilement. 
I love doing like, you know, 

892
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,600
helping people get something 
produced in a way that they're 

893
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,720
excited about the physical 
attributes of it, right? 

894
00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:59,840
And especially like even 
something like Fairy Land where 

895
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,040
it's like, I don't know, I just 
I love publishing things. 

896
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,160
And so some things we'll want to
get wired distribution for some 

897
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,480
things we'll want to like screen
print and like rhizograph print 

898
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,440
and bind with, you know, 
metallic blue staples or pink 

899
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,960
staples or something. 
So that's something I've been 

900
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,120
excited about. 
That collaboration has been 

901
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:19,520
awesome. 
It's been great working with 

902
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,800
Janica and like some of the 
artists that we've worked with, 

903
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,400
like I don't know if you all 
saw, we just did like a it's up 

904
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:27,480
for pre-order now. 
It'll be coming out really soon.

905
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,440
But like Eric Roper, we've got a
little art chat book from all 

906
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,360
Eric Roper stuff. 
If you're not familiar, 

907
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,800
Absolutely check his work out. 
You probably have seen his art 

908
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,120
around over the years. 
Like if you've ever listened to 

909
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,920
Sleep, then you've seen Eric 
Roper's artwork. 

910
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,560
So yeah, it's that's kind of a 
flip, the flip side of like, you

911
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,320
know, collaborating, trying to 
have a way to do some of these 

912
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,920
bigger projects too and keeping 
the handmade side as well. 

913
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,400
I think these discussions are 
really important to have 

914
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,200
publicly too, because it's it's 
good for people who are 

915
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:04,000
interested in what you do to 
like, remember that you are a 

916
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,800
person and like the handmade 
stuff like is like a labor of 

917
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,000
love, but it is in fact like a 
labor. 

918
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,240
So. 
It's good, it's good to really 

919
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:18,400
keep that like keep that in mind
and and make sure people 

920
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,120
understand like publicly, like, 
hey, it's just like, I think 

921
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:25,040
like not to not to talk shit 
about capitalism, right, But you

922
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,560
know, we're we're just such 
consumers that we don't always 

923
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,680
like humanize, like the the 
people running the company that 

924
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,200
we're buying from, especially 
like the small companies. 

925
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,400
And we're like, why isn't there 
were fucking Walmart and Amazon,

926
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,360
because then everything would 
fucking suck and everything 

927
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,040
would be low quality, right? 
You, you buy from these like 

928
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:46,360
small creators or small 
businesses, but they can't do 

929
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,680
the things at the scale that the
shitty things do because they're

930
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:51,960
doing it themselves and they are
of a better quality. 

931
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,280
And you will get a better time 
with that product, but it will 

932
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,600
take you know, there might be 
lots of them or it might take 

933
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,440
longer to come out or whatever 
have you. 

934
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,280
I think it's just good to talk 
about this publicly. 

935
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,640
Hi, Kat, you. 
Know no, go ahead. 

936
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:05,640
Ryan no. 
Go for it. 

937
00:53:05,720 --> 00:53:06,840
No. 
Go for it, please. 

938
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,400
I was just gonna say I also try 
not to like, I don't want to 

939
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,000
like judge anybody for like not 
doing what I do, you know, like 

940
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,840
I love my shit. 
I you can, that's fine. 

941
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:23,080
I just like super appreciate 
people making stuff. 

942
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,920
And sometimes I'm like, oh shit,
am I coming off like really 

943
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,360
elitist? 
And I'm like, no, I'm just doing

944
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:31,080
the shit that I love and other 
people like it. 

945
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,040
There's clearly people are 
interested in these things that 

946
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,880
are made like, you know, we've 
talked about capitalism plenty, 

947
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,320
right? 
We often want a thing that is 

948
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:46,240
like, capitalism isn't the way 
you get this made right? 

949
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,200
Yeah, but we all suffer under 
capitalism. 

950
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:54,320
Like, I mean, unfortunately, you
know, all you can do is try to 

951
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:58,880
capitalism as as kindly and 
ethically as you can, which I 

952
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,800
think is something that like you
strive for. 

953
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,560
I mean, there's plenty of people
in this space that don't do 

954
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,480
that. 
So it's really nice to, again, I

955
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:13,320
mean, there's a reason that you 
were on episode 17 and 250 

956
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,520
episodes later, we're still 
chatting and bullshitting. 

957
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,200
You know what I mean? 
It's because you're a genuine 

958
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,720
person and we really appreciate 
the ways in which you do the 

959
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:23,480
things that you do. 
And that's, you know, that's 

960
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:27,320
super important. 
I, I, I, you know, one point 

961
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,400
Hunter made about like not being
able to go up to scale. 

962
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:36,080
I think people in general have 
this inability to feel 

963
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:41,120
discomfort at all and like even 
the discomfort of like waiting 

964
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,760
for a thing to arrive. 
Like why is Amazon like a 

965
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,240
bajillion dollar company? 
Because people want the thing 

966
00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:50,880
they want and they want it for 
an extra $2.00 at that 5:00 to 

967
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,440
10:00 PM delivery today and 
can't wait two weeks for the 

968
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,360
thing to be handmade and and 
sent to them. 

969
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,160
And that's why big businesses 
thrive with, you know, this is 

970
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:02,280
what the Luddites were actually 
fighting against people. 

971
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,800
It wasn't against technology, it
was against it's shitty 

972
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:09,960
technology that profited the 
ownership while giving you a 

973
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:11,560
worse product. 
Right, like. 

974
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:16,600
It also worsens culture. 
Like, yeah, there's nothing 

975
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,200
wrong with wanting something to 
be here a little quicker and 

976
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,000
being willing to pay a little 
more for it, but there is 

977
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:28,280
something wrong with creating a 
system that destroys a culture 

978
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,120
in favor of something that will 
keep pointing people back at you

979
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,280
and essentially create 
addictions. 

980
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,000
Right? 
Like so many things we can play 

981
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,760
about with capitalism or because
people are creating addictions 

982
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:47,200
to monetize and it's like, I 
don't know, it's heartbreaking 

983
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,400
sometimes. 
Think about like, yeah, I do 

984
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,680
want this here tomorrow. 
I will pay 2 bucks extra but my 

985
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:59,920
God, I was happier when I had to
wait six weeks because my Doctor

986
00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:04,400
Strange records mail order 
catalog or whatever it was when 

987
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:07,040
I wanted to get like the 60 
Niners. 

988
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:12,400
I had to like mail in money and 
wait for them to mail me my 

989
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:18,560
record like I. 
Yeah yeah, capitalism. 

990
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,080
So stretch goals, we already hit
the first one, which is a 

991
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,880
digital soundtrack, but that's 
the only one I see listed here 

992
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,880
is that we have even more 
stretch goals waiting. 

993
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:33,320
We will update as they unlock. 
If you don't want to say what 

994
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,200
the next goal is, can you say 
when the next goal is? 

995
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:41,600
Because I. 
Have to find out when the next 

996
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,200
goal is because we hit that 
stretch goal while we were I 

997
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:47,960
think in this or like right 
before this or something. 

998
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,160
So I was like, I haven't, I 
haven't unlocked that yet, but 

999
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,840
it is unlocked now and we will 
have like a physical cassette 

1000
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,080
that people can add on if they 
want, but everybody's getting 

1001
00:56:56,080 --> 00:57:02,560
the digital audio too. 
The the next stretch goal. 

1002
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,960
OK, let me pull this up and see 
where I've got actually like the

1003
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,720
amount and what that is, because
I can't just keep everything in 

1004
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:15,240
my brain. 
I can barely keep anything so. 

1005
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,120
Yeah, same. 
So all right, let's see here. 

1006
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:24,440
Bye. 
Take me a minute. 

1007
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:25,840
That's OK. 
You're. 

1008
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:30,120
Good. 
We'll just, we'll just yell more

1009
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:35,080
about capitalism, so. 
It's also a weird thing to be 

1010
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:36,960
like here. 
Listen to me vent about 

1011
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:38,520
capitalism. 
Buy my stuff. 

1012
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:40,960
Hey, listen, whatever you we 
live under a yoke. 

1013
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:42,400
We didn't put the yoke on 
ourselves. 

1014
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:49,600
There you go. 
Yeah, we're getting and I was 

1015
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,440
just we're getting freer after 
200. 

1016
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:53,600
But I think we would have just 
said the same shit before. 

1017
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:58,600
We've already been been yelled 
at in our Discord for for using 

1018
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,640
the word fascism. 
And it's like, are you really 

1019
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:05,920
coming into our Discord and like
language like policing me on my 

1020
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:12,240
own fucking podcast? 
Like, you know, use, use safety 

1021
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,840
tools. 
All right, let's see here. 

1022
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:21,160
Where is my I'm at? 
Oh, Ryan, I can't stand you. 

1023
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:29,200
Oh. 
The the next stretch goal that 

1024
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,680
we're talking about is like a 
fold out like quick reference 

1025
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:37,480
sheet, like cooler though, like 
because this one's going to need

1026
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:38,960
to be bigger. 
So it's not going to be just 

1027
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:44,760
like a 8 1/2 by 11, you know 
like so that one is the next one

1028
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:48,080
that we're discussing and I 
think that it's going to be 

1029
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,160
10,000. 
By 10,000 we're almost there 

1030
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:52,960
already so. 
I bet you hit that by the end of

1031
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:56,240
the day. 
Like this has, I was, I was 

1032
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,040
definitely hoping we would get 
to like 8000 by the end of the 

1033
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,840
day. 
I'm I'm very pleased with how 

1034
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,240
things are going. 
It's really, it's nice and it's 

1035
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:07,760
probably like, yeah, it's been 
going better than we hoped and 

1036
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,720
that's awesome. 
Yeah. 

1037
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:11,960
We got some cool stuff planned 
though. 

1038
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:16,640
Like, I mean, I don't know if 
we'll get to it in the stretch 

1039
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:21,280
goals, but maybe, but I hope 
that we can make it like a 12 

1040
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,920
years at C campaign journal. 
That's like specific 12 years at

1041
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:28,600
C So that's one of the things 
that we're looking at, yeah. 

1042
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:34,400
It looks like as of right now, 
the most popular tier that 

1043
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:39,040
people are snagging is the the 
essential seafarer is is the 

1044
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:40,960
straight up just regular one 
with the goal. 

1045
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:46,040
But you got a lot of people that
are coming in for the the sea 

1046
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:50,280
chest, like the whole, the whole
kind of kit and caboodle in the 

1047
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,160
box. 
Yeah, that's been that's been 

1048
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,240
nice. 
I'm glad that's I was curious 

1049
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:57,680
because I know like a lot of 
folks probably already have 

1050
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,760
stuff, especially the like first
day backers, right? 

1051
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,880
But I what I've been most 
surprised by is we don't have a 

1052
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:09,280
single backer in the Sirens 
call, which is 12 years at sea 

1053
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:13,040
and 12 years. 
So I was like, oh, that's cool. 

1054
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,200
That just means that. 
Everybody already has 12 years, 

1055
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,360
you know what I mean? 
I think, yeah. 

1056
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,880
I think like, like people who 
don't have 12 years are like, 

1057
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:21,840
oh, I want all of it, which is 
cool. 

1058
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,200
I love that, Yeah. 
It's like I just need the new 

1059
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,960
thing or I want everything. 
Like that's what we're going for

1060
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:28,640
here. 
God, I don't even. 

1061
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,840
I can't even. 
So my problem with 12 years, 

1062
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:35,040
which go watch another podcast 
for that is I got to point where

1063
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:38,480
I was like, wait a minute, now I
need every printing of 12 years 

1064
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,120
and I think I might be missing 
one, but I have like a first 

1065
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:43,440
printing, a second printing, 1/3
printing, a fourth printing. 

1066
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,800
At some point I need to sit down
and count because I think we 

1067
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,640
already figured out that I now 
have more 12 years than you do. 

1068
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,560
Yes, you do. 
Yeah, which is which is crazy, 

1069
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,120
Yeah, yeah. 
And that's only because you sent

1070
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:59,360
me some of like the original 
stuff which we've I've showed 

1071
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,800
off on the show before, but 
we'll have to go through, we'll 

1072
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,680
have to go through it again once
we get this and this and the 

1073
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:06,680
thing. 
So. 

1074
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,600
So 12 years at sea, just in case
anyone is sitting here and 

1075
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:14,680
debating whether to get it or 
not. 

1076
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:18,240
I guess like what's the last 
thing that you could say just 

1077
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,280
about 12 years, about 12 years 
at sea and about this project? 

1078
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,520
So I'll first say something just
a little more broadly about 12 

1079
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:31,000
years, something I think that I 
have loved about this and is 

1080
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,800
intentionally making this whole 
thing is like a solo game. 

1081
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:40,920
It's going to get me to sit down
with paper and a pencil and no 

1082
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:48,320
screen and just like be in that 
and just like play for a little 

1083
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,200
while. 
And I don't need to do like a 

1084
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:53,320
big like journaling thing or 
like try to hack another system.

1085
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:58,920
I just want to capture that like
campaign feel with one person 

1086
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,440
and get back to these like the 
nostalgia that I have for when I

1087
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:08,560
played role-playing games and I 
was like 5 and there's no D 20s.

1088
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:13,920
I was just like D and D5E has 
decided to worship the D20. 

1089
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:17,520
So fuck the D20, throw it out. 
That's one of my guidelines is 

1090
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:23,720
we're not using AD 20 ever. 
And so there's like that 12 

1091
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:27,440
years at sea. 
I think like it's a really 

1092
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,240
beautiful thing to just like be 
in your head imagining and just 

1093
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,680
these are like prompts and then 
the drawing that it asks you do 

1094
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:36,080
just a little bit. 
You don't need to draw well, 

1095
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:39,360
it's just a little doodle and X,
but it's such a nice way to 

1096
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:43,320
spend time. 
And that's kind of the goals I 

1097
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,760
want to make like this thing 
that's just like a nice way to 

1098
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:48,320
spend time, create these little 
senses of adventure. 

1099
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:52,160
And man, it's fun having an 
adventure on the sea. 

1100
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:56,800
Oh, I guess that that's my last 
little bit. 

1101
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:00,880
Here's why you should play it. 
Yeah, I will say, I will say 

1102
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:06,280
when I first found 12 years, I 
started looking at solo games 

1103
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:08,400
and the solo journaling thing, I
could not. 

1104
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:11,840
It just didn't grab me. 
And when I got 12 years and I 

1105
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,400
read 12 years and it was solo 
adventure game, I was like this,

1106
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,800
this, this is what I wanna do 
for the exact reasons that you 

1107
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:19,080
just said. 
That's why I have a travel 

1108
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,000
journal to just be like, I might
get 20 minutes. 

1109
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:24,280
I can just, like you said, not 
sit on my phone to the doctor's 

1110
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:27,120
office and actually just do 
something and draw a little 

1111
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,600
thing and do whatever. 
So that's one of the reasons I 

1112
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:31,080
love it. 
I'm so excited for this project.

1113
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,160
Obviously, I have a preview 
version. 

1114
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:34,840
I've got to play around with it 
a little bit. 

1115
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:39,560
It's very excited for that. 
But this is gonna come out. 

1116
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:43,840
I highly recommend everyone just
go get everything if you don't 

1117
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:45,600
have it and everything from Max 
in general. 

1118
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:49,240
That's what I do and I wouldn't 
even talk about the one-on-one 

1119
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:51,080
because you guys can't have it 
because it's gone. 

1120
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:52,800
So. 
So that's it. 

1121
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,840
But I'm excited to make that for
the tears of the sea Wizard 

1122
01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:02,320
bottled and we're going to make 
that custom ring the the ring of

1123
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,520
the sea Wizards bride. 
So it's like the two core like 

1124
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:07,880
like relics of the game. 
Oh yeah. 

1125
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:11,760
Very excited, Very, very 
excited. 

1126
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:16,000
But I think that's going to be 
that's going to be us for today.

1127
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:19,280
Max, you're always welcome. 
Please come on the show. 

1128
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,880
Even when we said no guests, we 
didn't say no friends, which 

1129
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:23,960
means you're always welcome 
anytime you want. 

1130
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,320
We would love to play more 
Rumpus and we talked about that 

1131
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,040
a little bit before the show 
started. 

1132
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,080
So when that actually comes 
around, we'll make sure to let 

1133
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,520
everyone listening know because 
as we said in our last episode, 

1134
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:35,080
we're going to be getting more 
in a skirmish game. 

1135
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:36,680
So even though we've talked 
about it on the show, we've 

1136
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:40,240
played it on the show, we're 
going to get even deeper with 

1137
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,240
with rumpus. 
So very excited for that. 

1138
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,640
So please come back sooner than 
later. 

1139
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:48,400
We'll love to have you on again 
and and go back 12 years. 

1140
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,560
We'll make sure the links are 
where you think links are. 

1141
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,440
Thanks, great to see you all. 
Great to see you see. 

1142
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:55,640
You Max.