1 00:00:14,730 --> 00:00:16,570 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll Podcast. 2 00:00:16,570 --> 00:00:20,090 My name is Ryan. And I am a zip file full of 3 00:00:20,090 --> 00:00:25,010 magic circle art assets. And joining us today, we have a 4 00:00:25,010 --> 00:00:27,810 couple of special guests. We have Emily Antner and Lucas 5 00:00:27,810 --> 00:00:28,930 Zellers. How are you guys doing today? 6 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,640 Hello, I'm well. I'm, I'm great now. 7 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:37,240 I love, I love hanging out with a zip file full of magics or 8 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,360 glasses. There you go. 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,120 I've done it before and I'm excited to do it again. 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:48,480 There we go. So Emily Lucas, for those that 11 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:51,720 might not know you guys or some of your past work, why don't you 12 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,000 tell us a little bit about yourselves and something that 13 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:56,440 you might be known for in the space? 14 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:01,520 Emily, why don't we start with? You yeah, well, Lucas and I 15 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:09,840 together are known as Graphbound Press and we have been making 16 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:17,760 little games last month we we did a a tiny dragon game also. 17 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:24,320 So, you know, we're firmly in the same, in the same zone as as 18 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:28,880 before. And yeah, I, I and the TTRBG 19 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:34,960 space mostly do like layout and stuff and got started with the 20 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:38,360 other half of our team is not here. 21 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,840 The Breitbart games folks, They, they and Lucas were the first 22 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:44,880 people to be like, I need a layout person. 23 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,440 You do that right? And I'm like, yeah, I do now. 24 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,480 So I did go to school for graphic design. 25 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,840 So I had the the tools to do that. 26 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,040 And then, yeah, I've just, I've gotten into like making some 27 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,680 assets and stuff on itch to hopefully help fill in the gaps 28 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:12,000 for creators who need like bits or whatever that, you know, they 29 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,080 don't have a budget to hire somebody. 30 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:20,440 And yeah, it's been a lot of fun to like, meet people and go to 31 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:25,600 cons or like seeing games with bits of art from that I've made 32 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,760 or layout having my name in it. That kind of thing's been 33 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,600 starting to grow. It's been pretty cool. 34 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,040 Very cool. I think you, I think you're the 35 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,920 first person at PAX that came up to the booth that was actually 36 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:40,040 looking for us, which was really cool. 37 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:45,920 So yeah, yeah. And and Lucas same same 38 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:49,680 question. Yeah, I make and market TTRPGS. 39 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:55,280 So I've been working with Mae Chan Press for about 3-4 years 40 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,720 now and I got my start back. I got my start writing for games 41 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,600 back in 2018 when I discovered the DMS Guild and the 42 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,480 improbability that someone would pay me for an adventure I had 43 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:12,720 written and I was hooked. So in 2023 I kick started this. 44 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,760 This is Book of Extinction. It's a 260 page monster manual 45 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,720 for 5E all about extinct animals and the true stories that 46 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:23,760 happened in the real world and how they translate to AD and D 47 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,360 game. Emily's been my secret weapon 48 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,440 since we started that. She put together the sizzle reel 49 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,600 for me that helped me find a publisher and then we've we 50 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,600 haven't stopped ever since. I have one of the things I love 51 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,440 about the TTRPG spaces that no one it seems has planned to be 52 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,920 here. We just sort of end up here from 53 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,480 a variety of other more lucrative jobs. 54 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,480 Yeah. So I've been, I've been here 55 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:58,280 ever since, sort of carved out a niche for myself in intersecting 56 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,240 game design and Natural History and also helping people get 57 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,040 people, get other people to notice, read and play their 58 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,080 games. So I've been. 59 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,240 Yeah, I've we're, we're, we're quite, we're quite happy now. 60 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,200 We are quite professional at this. 61 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,519 This is my actual job, which is a very, very weird thing to say. 62 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,080 Someday, you know? It's crazy how many people 63 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,840 actually work in teach RPGs and actually work in teach RPGs 64 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:30,000 because I think like 90 plus percent all have like another 65 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,040 job or trying to have one as opposed to making it the full 66 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:34,200 time. So if you can do it full time, 67 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:35,800 that's awesome and you already answered. 68 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,960 My next question was how you guys got together with this. 69 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:40,640 They scooped you and you've you've been doing ever since. 70 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,200 I believe it. Zazz lazine question. 71 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:44,720 We did talk. Did you guys do like a cute 72 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,640 dragon sticker pack or like what? 73 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,320 I think that's how I first heard about the weekly scroll is 74 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,200 because you must. You covered it or mentioned it 75 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,240 or something and somebody pointed it out to us and I was 76 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,840 like, oh, these guys are rad. So. 77 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,680 Yeah. So yeah, we did precious things. 78 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,840 We basically released the Zine, I mean like the digital or the 79 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:15,720 print at home stuff for free during Zine quest. 80 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:21,680 And then I used whatever people wanted to donate to fund a 81 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:26,960 sticker sheet print run, which was a lot of fun. 82 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,720 Yeah, this was our introduction to Zine month and it also blew 83 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,960 me away at how how much fun it was. 84 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,200 So I, you know, having started in 5th edition and with main 85 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,880 Chan press, who is like, I guess you would say AA in the in the 86 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:51,760 TTRPG space, like Lux art, very sort of in the rich oil 87 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:53,760 painting, heavily illustrated tradition. 88 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,680 And then moving backward and like having sort of that 89 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,960 opposite trajectory to Emily, where she started in the indie 90 00:05:59,960 --> 00:06:02,440 space and sort of has continued to work up. 91 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:04,840 And we've sort of intersected in between. 92 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:07,800 But Zine month is where that really kind of happened for us, 93 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,880 where everybody was just like, yeah, if you say it's a Zine, 94 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,920 it's a Zine. And here's this lovable 95 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,560 community of nerds who are looking for something weird and 96 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,160 surreal and kind of fun. And we were like, well, what if 97 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:25,200 we gave you tiny Dragons to put in unlikely places And they 98 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,200 loved it. And, you know, I think that was 99 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,880 like the first warm hug that we got where we're like, all right, 100 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:31,080 we're we're going to stick around. 101 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:32,160 We're going to do this again. That's. 102 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,120 One of the reasons that we covered it, I mean, I I love 103 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,240 itch. I love the various ways of 104 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,600 people itch fund things and to see something that wasn't just 105 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,000 like AZ in our digital relation. But you don't you were actually 106 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,280 funding to have this like sticker. 107 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:48,240 She was interesting thing and that's why we talked about it. 108 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,560 And then you've been in our chat frequently since then. 109 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:57,720 I, I, I will check, I will check and see odds and ends in our in 110 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,280 our user list as we're doing the show quite frequently. 111 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,520 And then and then once again, we finally got to meet you at PAX, 112 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,320 which is neat. So it's, it's cool that you 113 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:11,800 know, we, we have become or let you up as a fan and, and now a 114 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,240 guest on the show all the way going back from just like, hey, 115 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,080 I found this this cute thing on itch hunter. 116 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,400 Let's talk about this one. You know, it is neat. 117 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,920 Yeah. And like Lucas said, so many 118 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:27,040 people like, without us doing the, like, PR work of reaching 119 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:32,240 out to anyone, like just covered precious things on their own. 120 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,800 And it was like, oh, wow. We we're excited that people 121 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,240 like what we've made like that they're promoting it. 122 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,960 Like to this day, I think TTRPG kids is like one of the most 123 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:48,440 frequent refers to precious things from an article that that 124 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:53,320 Steph wrote. And like, we didn't ask them to 125 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,480 do to do that. They just, they just felt that 126 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:01,240 it fit their, you know, content, their their kid focused TTRPG 127 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:06,560 stuff and and we agreed. And yeah, so just, I know that 128 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:12,880 there's like the month is hectic in some ways, but we felt like 129 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:18,720 last year we were welcomed quickly and easily. 130 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,040 Like people were excited to to find things and talk about it. 131 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,880 And it's a, it's a interesting month where it's like either 132 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,760 you're a little stressed out 'cause you're running a crowd 133 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,640 runner or you're like running around emptying your wallet. 134 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,600 Cool things. We're both. 135 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,360 Yeah, we're much more on the emptying the wallet end of that 136 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,360 scenario. I feel like we're both a lot 137 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,520 better about Kickstarters. I've backed exponentially fewer 138 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,200 Kickstarters now than than when we started doing the show. 139 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,320 I had a genuine problem. We started doing a show. 140 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:00,160 I mean, we started the show in 2021 and it was really during 141 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,160 that time host shut down. Boom. 142 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,560 So they were like, like there was a ton of stuff coming up 143 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:08,680 like every day. So that's that's what I'm 144 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:10,800 blaming, not me. Yeah, it's. 145 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:12,720 Not my. Old circumstances. 146 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,920 Like no, Hunter says he has a problem. 147 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,360 Wild guess on how many Kickstarters I've backed. 148 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:23,480 Wild guess. 200 you. Know better than this. 149 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:30,320 You know much better than this. It is pushing 7000. 150 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:35,640 My gosh, dude, crap. Yeah, it's up there. 151 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,480 I like people's stuff. I like supporting their things. 152 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,600 And once I find someone I like, I like having all of their 153 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,840 things. So I do, you know, it's great. 154 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,760 The crowdfunding is neat. Zen Month and and Zen Quest are 155 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,200 really neat. You said that's how our 156 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,160 introduction to you guys. We did a lot last year. 157 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,280 We're doing very little this year. 158 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,880 We said yes to everyone that asked us and that was two people 159 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,920 and that's all we're doing. So before February started, I'm 160 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,480 not doing this like mid February. 161 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,680 Hey, we're three weeks in. Can we get some coverage stuff? 162 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:08,120 I'm like plan ahead. But but Emily actually like came 163 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,400 up to us at PAX and was like, Hey, it's nice to meet you. 164 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:11,960 Hey, also we have this thing coming up. 165 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:13,920 I'm like, yes, whatever it is, just e-mail me. 166 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,120 We'll we'll do something, you know, if you're a fan of the 167 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:17,280 show. Absolutely. 168 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,600 So tiny Dragons last year, tiny Dragons this year. 169 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:28,600 What's up with tiny Dragons? I think it started with, well, 170 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,200 precious things came from Lucas primarily. 171 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,720 I don't I guess I don't know where he came came up with that. 172 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:38,080 But we we've been close with John and Bri of Breitbart games. 173 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,400 Like I've worked with them a lot and we knew we wanted to do 174 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,280 something together and their their games have a running 175 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,640 theme. Well, they kind of have got two 176 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,320 things. There's like the tiny tiny cute. 177 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,800 Axolotl with a gun. Yeah, there there's like the 178 00:10:54,800 --> 00:11:00,880 little guy kills God and then there's the like ritualize and 179 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,400 the mundane kind of side of. Their game. 180 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:12,720 Just like Terminus and yeah. And so they're they, they wanted 181 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,960 to do something in that vein of like, I guess you could call it 182 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,520 a cozy genre, but but that might mean something different to 183 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:20,960 everybody. We. 184 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,240 Have our own. Complaints with cozy, but yeah, 185 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,680 something like something in the vein of like I, I guess 186 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:33,000 ritualizing the mundane is kind of what I think of both bonds 187 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,600 between and and to some extent precious things of just like, 188 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,760 hey, look at your life a little different. 189 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,280 Like what if you were a tiny dragon? 190 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:48,000 Like we're like doing things that that hopefully remind you 191 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,720 of things that you could do in in real life. 192 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,840 Psychic and bonds between as a duet game. 193 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:57,120 You're like playing with somebody that you are, you're 194 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:03,600 bonded in this case, whether or not it's a romantic or familial 195 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,200 or it could be a contentious relationship. 196 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,040 Like that's kind of part of the game of you. 197 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,000 You set up your relationship and and how you interact is very 198 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,520 like kind of there's kind of an etiquette to it. 199 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:23,680 But that idea of like, yeah, just kind of spending time 200 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,880 spending your attention on yourself and a person you're 201 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,760 playing a game with or your surroundings. 202 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,440 It meshed well with like John and Bree's stuff. 203 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,440 And so we kind of just sat down on several calls in a row and 204 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,880 we're like, what if we were to make a game together, kind of 205 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:44,000 what would it look like and threw out different kind of 206 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:49,760 topics, genres, ideas and thought about. 207 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,920 Which. One we could actually like must 208 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,600 Where would be the best fit for a collab between all all four of 209 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,640 us? So we laid it back on on the 210 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:05,840 tiny Dragons again. Between 2 they kill God. 211 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,760 I mean, honestly, you know what? I'm not against it. 212 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,000 I'm. Not yeah, I'm open to the. 213 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:18,960 I'm open to the. So you mentioned Breitbart a 214 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,000 number of times and then John and Bree to the other 215 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,960 collaborators on The thing is Breitbart Lucas, John and Bree 216 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,480 and then and Emily, you're working with them or is it, is 217 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:35,720 that a a third part of? This John and Bree, they're do 218 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:41,600 the duo of them, Lucas and I. John is a writer and editor, and 219 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:42,560 together they've come up with some. 220 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,480 They've come up with a set of games that has a very distinct 221 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,040 voice, and they've most they've recently coalesced under the 222 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,680 Breitbart name. Yeah, cool. 223 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,760 Yeah, no, I remember I crave the Loop was an interesting 1. 224 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:00,560 So that's when I first saw Breitbart. 225 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:01,520 I was like all. The way. 226 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,720 Yeah, I know, I know that one. But and then so so so it's 227 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,560 Breitbart plus Lucas plus Emily all coming together to make a do 228 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:15,640 a duet card game about cute, cute Dragons. 229 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,920 So I guess, and not only that, you have an editor, Will Yelpst, 230 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,960 someone we've talked about, yeah, number of times on the 231 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,400 show. We were we. 232 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:32,520 Were chef, he said yes. So, so bonds between for those 233 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,160 that haven't gone to the Kickstarter yet, because they 234 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,720 will, you can also download, so you make sure to download the 235 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,760 preview that's on the Kickstarter page, but. 236 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,280 You like it? Yeah, there you go. 237 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,520 What what's what's the pitch? What's the full elevator pitch 238 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:51,680 for Bonds between and the game that they can get right now in 239 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,640 Kickstarter? Yeah, Bonds Between is a duet 240 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:02,480 card altering TTRPG in which you play Dragons in an everyday 241 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,800 world who are using their considerable magic to restore a 242 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,440 rundown layer. But dragon magic is the magic of 243 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,920 things and of places and for the things that you're playing with. 244 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,400 We've, we've chosen a deck of cards to represent it. 245 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,560 Not everything is suitable for a Dragon's horde. 246 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,480 They're picky. They're connoisseurs of their, 247 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:28,360 of their chosen horde. So every card, any magical card 248 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,520 has to be altered by you in some way. 249 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:35,280 And that's the that's the core of the gameplay is we want you 250 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:40,800 to take a deck of cards and ruin it and make of it a cool new 251 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,200 thing that's like very you and very your bonded and very part 252 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:49,160 of the story and experience. Any altered card can serve as 253 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,560 any card of its suit, regardless of its original rank. 254 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,680 And to cast Magic and restore your layer, you're building sets 255 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,760 and runs of cards from that, a hand that you draw from your 256 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,560 deck. So the more altered your deck 257 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,560 is, the more magically you are and the easier it is to cast 258 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,360 larger and more complex spells to deal with larger and more 259 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,680 complex threats over the course of the year. 260 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,680 And after 12 months or 12 spells, you've gone through all 261 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,760 Four Seasons. And that's kind of the kind of 262 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,640 the scope of the game. And you either have healed your 263 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:25,520 layer, your your healed your your domain, or you have changed 264 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,880 it in some irrevocable way and you have to decide how to live 265 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:35,040 with what it is now. Yeah, you mentioned card 266 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,240 altering and you said you're ruining. 267 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,600 You're not you're you're, you're altering the deck. 268 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,840 What? And that's a key component of 269 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,680 it. What first of all, why what, 270 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,200 what made you want to do that? But also kind of dig into that a 271 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,040 little bit more, like how does actually altering the cards 272 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,520 affect or is affected by the gameplay? 273 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,680 Well, I'll let Emily tell you why, and then I'll tell you what 274 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,119 we're actually doing because. Yeah, one of the early like in 275 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:10,920 discussions we talked a lot about like keepsake games or 276 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:15,839 like artifacts of play as like a mechanic that we wanted people 277 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:18,480 to engage with. I think that comes from like the 278 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,920 artsy side of four of us that we and we kind of wanted to 279 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:27,880 encourage a creation event in the in the play playing of the 280 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,640 game. So like altering cards is it's 281 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,360 both like it's kind of a real commitment to playing the game. 282 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:40,840 It's like I'm going to take a deck of cards and make it only 283 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,080 usable for this game. Potentially. 284 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,240 I guess there might be other games out there you can use it 285 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,840 for after that, but not certainly a normal deck of cards 286 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,880 after that. So it's kind of a committing. 287 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:59,080 It's like it's making a little bit of a commitment to, to 288 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,400 changing something, which definitely feeds back into the 289 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:07,400 themes of the game of, of, of that relationship with the, the 290 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,840 horde. And like Lucas said, the your, 291 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:16,440 your Dragon's magic and stuff. And yeah, so I think, yeah, 292 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,720 commitment. And then I like the the idea a 293 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,040 lot of having something at the end of the game that you've 294 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:27,880 you've created through play that you have to remember the game by 295 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,840 or to kind of represent that experience that you that you 296 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,120 had. Yeah. 297 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:38,960 And rather than a functional deck of cards, you have a deck 298 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,560 of like collage art that was made under a certain 299 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,320 circumstances for a certain purpose. 300 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,640 And they can be as as fun and creative, as weird and weird as 301 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,080 you want them to be. But they're always going to be 302 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,600 yours. Yeah. 303 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,640 Yeah. You just need to have an 304 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,520 artifact in in teach RPG play. Artifacts always fun to have so. 305 00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:02,680 Yeah, I'm a big fan of like encouraging people to just try 306 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,360 making something like they don't have to pass a certain bar to 307 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,040 Internet. And I think like colleges and 308 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,880 even just destruction potentially is one of those 309 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:14,960 things that it's like you can do this. 310 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,960 Like if you accept that whatever you do is a success, like, then 311 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,640 you've you you kind of get the the hang of it. 312 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,800 There is a certain transgressive joy to what we've suggested you 313 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,200 do, which is to just take a pair of scissors to a deck of cards 314 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:37,200 like it's not You're allowed. Yeah, I am. 315 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,560 I'm reading the the altering the card list. 316 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,800 I did look over it previously, but yeah, it's really just like 317 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,040 punch a hole in it, cut the corners off, nail the card. 318 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,080 It's unusable for the ritual till it arrives. 319 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,400 Like there's some really like fun and interesting things. 320 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:55,800 I I love the like the past, just like the the the kind of in 321 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,840 theater of the mind playing the game, this actual like the 322 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,080 artifact thing that you play with and there's an end product 323 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,360 to that was the deck of cards kind of the original. 324 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,080 Is that was that y'all's first idea that you just went with, or 325 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,560 were you looking for something to like create an artifact with? 326 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:18,080 We we talked about kind of this idea of like life is a special 327 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:24,400 occasion, so use the fine China or like this idea of like 328 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:27,840 getting people to do something with something they've been 329 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,120 holding on to that they've never committed to using. 330 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,400 And so we were going to do that with like stickers or like, you 331 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:40,240 know, something that you've had that just anything that that 332 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:45,080 people might collect, but that they wouldn't be, it wouldn't be 333 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,400 like something they're using regularly, which like for my 334 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,320 grandma would be the fine China. But for for most people that 335 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,000 probably maybe not. But then it, it was a big ask. 336 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:02,960 Like that's a big ask to, to to tell people like to do that for 337 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,240 the whole game maybe. And so we kind of reeled it back 338 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:12,000 to representing real objects with with the deck of cards. 339 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,160 And that was like, it's also less of a financial task to 340 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,200 people, like it's a little more accessible there was. 341 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,800 Really nothing else. I think that was perfect for 342 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,800 that exact function like cards are transitory. 343 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,440 We have a very I I I'm obsessed with cards, playing cards, 344 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,480 especially in the unique magic and history and mathematics that 345 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,040 they have. I think they're an intrinsically 346 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:42,640 magical thing, but they're also ephemeral and unnoticed and 347 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,800 transitory and easy to acquire and throw away and forget and 348 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,320 discover. So yeah, it was it. 349 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,080 They're kind of. We had some other stuff that we 350 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,240 considered, but I don't think there's anything quite as 351 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,920 perfect for exactly this as a deck of cards. 352 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:03,400 And I knew that we had something when I brought my initial list 353 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,880 of ideas for how to alter a card to the team, and everyone 354 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,960 immediately had three or four more. 355 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,800 And they're like, yes, you've got it. 356 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,960 You understand the bit, and you can. 357 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,960 Yes. And me all night on this one. 358 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,720 So yeah, very. Cool. 359 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,000 And then the game, it's a, it's a duet game and it's called 360 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:31,400 Bonds Between. So what are the bonds between? 361 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,400 In a way, they're what you make them. 362 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,640 But in any group of two people, there are at least three 363 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,560 entities, each person and the relationship between them. 364 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,560 And in a group of three, it goes up to five. 365 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,880 In a group of four, like it's exponential. 366 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:54,400 It's crazy. So we, we, there may be a point 367 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,120 where Graft Bound makes a solo journaling game. 368 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,880 I don't know. It's not, you know. 369 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:03,320 People may need to check on us if we do that. 370 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,040 So we wanted to offer an experience that was at least for 371 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,800 you and for someone else. And duet games have this like 372 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,760 really cool niche where you don't have to manage the 373 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,880 relationships between you and like four other potentially 374 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,320 strangers where you would in Dungeons and Dragons. 375 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,840 So it allows you to like cut through a lot of the, the hard 376 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,400 stuff or the stuff that makes role-playing games hard to play 377 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,360 where you have to work with people, you have to like figure 378 00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:32,880 out how to trust people very quickly. 379 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,440 So this is this is like for that space where it's someone you're 380 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,760 comfortable with, someone you're willing to ask some fun or 381 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,520 interesting or deeper questions with, someone you're willing to 382 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,640 sort of meditate and do art with. 383 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,240 And I don't know, I think that's really cool. 384 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,400 I think it's underserved in TTRPGS. 385 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,960 There's a surprisingly, in my experience, there's a 386 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,240 surprisingly low number of these that are just built for two 387 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,520 people. And I think they have a really 388 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,040 cool use case. It wasn't lost on us that this 389 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,000 is coming out in February. Valentine's Day is right in the 390 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,800 middle. We keep like, I keep like giving 391 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,400 this game to my friends and being like, hey, next date 392 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:10,640 night. And they're like, yeah, whenever 393 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,560 that happens, we will let you know. 394 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,200 And then months later I'll get play test feedback. 395 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:20,240 So, but yeah, that was that was part of the original design. 396 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,960 And it's, you know, it's, it's important dragon and like, so we 397 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,120 could get real deep on why dragon, But one of the really 398 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:31,640 important parts of that is that historic, like historically, the 399 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,840 the narrative, mythological functional role of a dragon in a 400 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,160 story is almost always solitary. There's almost always one. 401 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,280 It's a tyrannical figure. It's a figure, it's a Nexus of 402 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:47,480 evil. And that is like not being able 403 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,920 to cooperate with people are being sort of lonely and 404 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,320 antagonistic and xenophobic. That's like, that's, that's 405 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,960 dragon all the way. So this was a, a deliberate 406 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,840 subversion of that to say, by the time you have survived to 407 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,520 the present day, you no longer have the luxury of being of of 408 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,640 being a mythological dragon in the vein of Smaug. 409 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,320 You, you have to form at least one relationship. 410 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,440 So what does that look like for a creature who has all of that 411 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,720 history and legacy and lore built into it? 412 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,400 And we haven't told you how to do that, but we we know that you 413 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,240 intrinsically understand that if you know anything about Dragons, 414 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,280 people tend to get that. So it's a duet game for a lot of 415 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,560 reasons. One of them is like for 416 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,640 positioning in the space and like offering a offering a buyer 417 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,440 something cool and unique that they're not likely to get 418 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,040 elsewhere. It works for the mechanics of it 419 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,160 because you know, like it has a very mechanical impact and it 420 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,560 fits for the lore. Like the lore and mechanics of 421 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,760 this rhyme with the selling points. 422 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,360 So that's, that's what we're trying to do with every game 423 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,120 that we make. And for this to be a duet game 424 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:54,960 really solves a lot of that and brings it together. 425 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,440 Very cool. Yeah, there. 426 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,760 I mean, I've talked to we at one point on the show here, either 427 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,920 on the show or, or with our our sister brand, the Adventure 428 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:08,280 Archive. I was talking about doing like 429 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,200 duet streams. And I was like, let me look 430 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,520 through my massive collection and find all my duet games and 431 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,440 there was a stack like this big. Oh man. 432 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,280 So. I can see your bookshelf that's. 433 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,920 Crazy. Yeah, there's not one duet. 434 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,000 Of them though. No, I would say half of them are 435 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,200 in my living room right now. But it is crazy how few duet 436 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,960 games, a ton of solo games. I mean, everything post 437 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,720 pandemic, there's a million yeah, solo games. 438 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,720 But duet games are still few and far between. 439 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,920 So it is really neat to see something that does take a lot 440 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,360 of things and kind of take them in a different direction from 441 00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:48,680 the cards to the the duet game to the Dragons and everything we 442 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,720 said you wanted to get you could get deep on Dragons. 443 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,880 Why don't we like you don't have to get you don't have to go 444 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,000 Marianas Trench. But like, yeah, I mean Dragons 445 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,760 last year, Dragons this year. Why Dragon? 446 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:06,040 OK, this is not it is. It is no accident that this 447 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,800 happened after Book of Extinction. 448 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:13,560 I felt like I was going crazy when I wrote this because I had 449 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,920 to. I wanted to write a book just 450 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,920 about modern day or like near history extinctions because we 451 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,560 are living in a time when that is happening far faster than 452 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,760 maybe it ever has. And most of its human caused. 453 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,000 Like I had a point to make and then people were like, but what 454 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,160 about like the Saber toothed tiger though? 455 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,360 And I was like, fine, we'll put the direwolf in the book. 456 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,600 And what I discovered was that there is a Direct Line between 457 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,200 like fantasy literature as it exists now and as it's 458 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,480 celebrated by Dungeon and the Dragons all the way back to the 459 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,600 last Ice Age when everything was taller, larger, bigger and 460 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,040 woolier than it ever has been in any sort of modern 461 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,040 understanding. And I think like, quite 462 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:04,240 literally, dragon mythology and lore is built on that historical 463 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,040 record. So then to like, I'm so like to 464 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,720 imagine where Dragons are. Like we're one of the last 465 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,800 megafauna. We're one of the very few 466 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,960 creatures on the planet that is over 100 lbs in its adult stage. 467 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:25,000 So like we're already Dragons to the by comparison to the rest of 468 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,760 the world, but to understand that like to to function in a 469 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,720 modern ecosystem. I like I'm already off the rails 470 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,240 here, but the function in a modern ecosystem, you have to 471 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:39,440 figure out how to be small. The word is neotenic, younger, 472 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,840 sort of more juvenilized than maybe it would have been in the 473 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,960 past. And again, like Dragons are a 474 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,040 locus for this. There's no creature. 475 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,920 More like they're the apex predators of entire continents. 476 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,760 They're the biggest thing in the Monster Manual. 477 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,880 And that is like what they are. So to to do a game about tiny 478 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,160 Dragons is to deliberately ask you to sort of reimagine every 479 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:08,120 part of your fantasy in like a very fundamental way and and 480 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,840 figure out what that wouldn't like ask you to sort of look 481 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,560 forward to what kind of what kind of stories does the world 482 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:22,320 we live in produce on its own? So to like, to my mind, I'm not 483 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,200 interested in mountain cracking Dragons anymore. 484 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,720 We've done that. I know where that comes from and 485 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,360 I know what that makes. I'm far more interested in like 486 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,480 a four foot, like a four inch dragon who lives in your house 487 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,760 and has to sort of interact with a human centric ecosystem. 488 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,160 Like what is that? And that to me is that to me is 489 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,040 the real magic of a dragon that's that's tiny. 490 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:53,640 Yeah, so Dragons are interesting because we all understand them, 491 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:59,280 all of us fantasy nerds, right? We for some reason this 492 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,600 immediately let me think of Mouse Ritter and how I explained 493 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:02,520 Mouse Ritter to. People. 494 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,840 Because when you think of dragon, like there's a dragon in 495 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,520 like the introduction adventure for, for DND 5E and it's like 496 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,960 your level 1 adventures and you're going to fight a dragon. 497 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,600 Like you would fucking die, right? 498 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,480 But like, you know, so, so there's No Fear left in Dragons. 499 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,200 I mean, we've seen them all a million times. 500 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:27,440 And in Mouse Ritter, the way that I describe it to people is 501 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,760 like, you can even say like, oh, you're not really afraid of 502 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,080 Dragons. Saint George fought the dragon 503 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,440 everything. But imagine a mouse fighting a 504 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,120 cat and they're like, no, absolutely no chance whatsoever. 505 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,880 And it's like, well, that's the Dragons of the mice world. 506 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,200 And that brings the fear back. So it's really interesting to 507 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,680 think that to take the concept of Dragons and to, you know, 508 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,840 like you said, kind of subvert them into a different thing or 509 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,000 look at them from a completely different lens. 510 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,440 And yeah, thinking of them is like tiny, tiny little cute 511 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,680 little Dragons. Is is one way to do so? 512 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:02,360 And like, like I said, like we're asking you to play as 513 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,480 Dragons. So like, whereas a typical 514 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,320 dragon would be the thing to be defeated or the monster to 515 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,800 negotiate with or whatever, like sort of considering yourself as 516 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,720 a a creature who like carries with it that history of like 517 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,760 being the apex, but now has to like kind of coexist and with 518 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,120 other Dragons and and potentially other other types of 519 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,360 creatures in the area. Like it's yeah, it's a 520 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,360 perspective shift on like kind of I think Lucas and I, if you 521 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:41,480 can't tell, I think like to think deeply about concepts and 522 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,760 and themes. So even if it doesn't all get 523 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,320 written out, we're we're we're working on it in the in the back 524 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,440 of our heads. I. 525 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:52,640 Love that. I think it's great. 526 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,720 I I enjoyed that kind of tangent. 527 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,880 I think it was also very appropriate for the show that's 528 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,440 built also completely. We are literally entirely built 529 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,560 on tangents. That's what 80% of our episodes 530 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,680 are. But so, so bonds between you've 531 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,800 talked about the Dragons, we've talked about they're cozy and 532 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,080 they're, they're, they're Neo Tenic and, and everything. 533 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,040 But the actual game, we talked about altering cards already, 534 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,560 but what does the actual game look like if you're sitting down 535 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,000 with two people getting set up, like character creation, those 536 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,640 kind of things, Like how deep does that go towards what people 537 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,040 normally expect from a TTRPG? Or is that also shift a little 538 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,600 bit more? What does actual play look like? 539 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:37,080 Yeah, we, we have character creation in a sort of seasonal 540 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,160 alignment. We I think the the suits of the 541 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,360 cards, we wanted them to matter thematically. 542 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,840 So we aligned those with seasons of the year and Dragons kind of 543 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,200 fit in a in a season. So there's some character 544 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:57,360 creation as to like your, your seasonal alignment, and your. 545 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:04,400 Each of those seasons has a special ability, unless I'm 546 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,240 wrong about that. No, you're right. 547 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,160 When we like one of the other things that that let us do is 548 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,800 access that sort of ancestral memory of Dragons. 549 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,640 So I can like everyone has an idea of what a dragon is and 550 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,360 usually it's slightly different from the person next to them. 551 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,880 But if we say you are either a summer, spring, autumn or winter 552 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,520 dragon, then immediately someone's like, OK, now I can 553 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,320 like the interplay of those two things tells me, gives me enough 554 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,800 to sort of hang my character on. So that's where we started and 555 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,720 we made it matter. Mechanically, you sort of choose 556 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,880 what it is you hoard, like what your cards are going to 557 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,720 represent. And then so like that's sort of 558 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,960 and then, and then you get to that third piece of what a 559 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:48,320 dragon is, which is what you hoard or sorry, where you, where 560 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,080 you live, like where you're from. 561 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,520 And when you design for playing cards, you end up designing, 562 00:33:54,640 --> 00:34:00,800 designing in groups of 413 and 52 and like multiples of those. 563 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,000 So you like there's 13 suggestions for where you might 564 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,680 be from? Vending machine was one of my 565 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,920 absolute favorites. Like I am the dragon of the 566 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,480 vending machine. It's like, I know that guy. 567 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,880 Yeah, the place matters and and the the place you choose to play 568 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,040 and then can be a representation of like the objects in the room 569 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,239 are part of representing like my horde or us are the relationship 570 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,040 with the play and stuff. So that was, that was definitely 571 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,320 a fun like to, I think that comes to from that like 572 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,199 ritualizing things where it's like, oh, we want people to go 573 00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:41,920 outside or like take this game to a place to play it like plan 574 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,400 ahead. Like because I'm, I think we all 575 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,000 know that playing a TTRPG takes planning anyway. 576 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,920 So it's like, oh, I'm going to intentionally sit down, spend my 577 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,239 attention. I'm playing this game with 578 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,480 another person and maybe even go somewhere specific to to like 579 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:05,040 play this or take my deck of weird hoarded stuff and go to a 580 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,960 person and be like, do you want to cast a spell at a convention 581 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,640 or whatever? Like that's kind of the pic, the 582 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,040 picture we have. So you build your character and 583 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,160 then So what? And then the initiating of 584 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,880 gameplay, like how like walk us through that. 585 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:28,320 Yeah, You wreck your deck. The the fictional justification 586 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,160 for this is that you've inherited this domain from 587 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:31,880 someone else. Like, most of us don't live in a 588 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,280 house that we built or on a place of land that wasn't 589 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,480 previously settled. So that's like, deeply true 590 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,160 about the human experience right now. 591 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,080 So we reported that over to Dragons. 592 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,800 Be like, you have a horde. You have a domain. 593 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,560 It was someone else's before it was yours. 594 00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:49,480 What have they left you? So you go through an altar, 5 595 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,320 cards. And that also kind of gets you a 596 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,840 sense for what this kind of looks like or gives you a way to 597 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,600 play or like, do it, do one that you don't like and figure out 598 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,960 what you do. John and Bri and Emily sat down 599 00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:03,800 when we launched the Kickstarter to, to do a stream where they 600 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,160 did just that. And like, I was blown away by 601 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,400 what came out of that. Emily, what is it like? 602 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,480 What is it that you what is it that you get out of a collage 603 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:21,840 art in this experience? It was fun to like kind of take 604 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,000 the bar of like making something perfect and just lower it all 605 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,200 the way to the floor and be like, I just have to, I just 606 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,840 have to turn these 5 cards into something unrecognizable from 607 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:39,560 their previous state. And for me as like a classic 608 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,480 hoarder of paper, it was like time to use some of the stuff 609 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,800 that I that I've collected just like a, a fun experience of 610 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,560 like, OK, like the, the altering the cards is the fun part. 611 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,880 So it's like to start with that is a, is a really great opener 612 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,640 to be like, OK, we're, we're starting with five cards. 613 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,800 It gives you time to, like, think about your characters a 614 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,360 little more, like what you've just built up to that and sit 615 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,720 down and just like, get out the glue sticks and yeah. 616 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,920 I mean, I have a an envelope full of stickers that I've 617 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,080 collected over a few years of the convention circuit by now. 618 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:20,200 So for me, it's like where which which ace is going to now have 619 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,120 the Meichi impressive me Boyd sticker on it. 620 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:29,000 Yeah, and I get to like figure. Out, King of human hearts. 621 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,360 Pretty cool. Yeah, I believe it was. 622 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,880 Is it John that popped into to chat here and was talking about 623 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,320 the the queen of egg and the chipmunk of diamonds? 624 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,280 Yes. Yeah, those were fun. 625 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,720 Yeah, just like imagining kind of the setting and stuff like 626 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,240 the Queen of Eggs was me being like, well, I have this egg 627 00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:00,520 sticker that didn't go very far. The the trail ends right there. 628 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,160 It's like 2 points. That's the station we stopped 629 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,200 at. But yeah, it's yeah. 630 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,800 Like it was fun and artsy and some of them I didn't like as 631 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,360 much as others that you I feel like was great. 632 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,960 But yeah, it's it really did feel like lowering the bar to 633 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,080 just be like just start like just. 634 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,400 Start the game. Just like let yourself run as 635 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:29,080 far as you want to like and then you have these things to to play 636 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,320 the the rest of the game with. Seems like there's a lot of fun 637 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,720 experimentation, like if I got multiple card decks to place a 638 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:38,480 few times, like the first deck that I altered would be it would 639 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,880 be successfully altered like you said, like destroying. 640 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,360 The thing is, it's self creation. 641 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,000 No matter what I come out with, it would be done. 642 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,560 But did you see as you iterated and like went through multiple 643 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,280 card decks, you got a little bit more like kind of dialed in on 644 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,920 the process of altering the cards and making them 645 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,200 interesting? Yeah, those like first five 646 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,440 cards. It's my understanding is that 647 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,000 it's, it's really open-ended. Like there's there's those 648 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,880 instructions later that are like alter a card this way, but those 649 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,760 first five cards are like alter these cards. 650 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,000 These are the things you've inherited. 651 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,960 So they're definitely like open-ended. 652 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,760 Yeah, I, I think there's, there's something to like, I 653 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,880 guess it's like even in the short term, just warming up to 654 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,800 like collaging or to whatever it is you're doing illustrating on 655 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,840 the cards. Or even just like Bree kind of 656 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,240 spliced a card in a way that made it look like it had 657 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:35,280 shattered, which was rad. Which I, I, you know, I don't 658 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,280 know if she had ever done that before, but she certainly 659 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,040 figured out how to do it right then. 660 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,840 And I can tell you that like even, you know, even among one 661 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,800 of the things that you develop is a sense of your personal 662 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,680 style. And I don't think anybody like 663 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,120 looking at what came out of that stream with John and Bree and 664 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,320 Emily, if I even if I hadn't known which card was done by 665 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,480 which person, I could have told you. 666 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,840 And that's, that's the other super fun thing about it is that 667 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,720 like you will be able to add I'll, I don't know that this is 668 00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:06,720 true, but I'll stake my reputation on it. 669 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,760 You will be able to spot your own card in the deck. 670 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,200 Be like for sure. And other like other people get 671 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,240 to sort of see you in this funhouse mirror of what happens 672 00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:19,880 when you're left alone with scissors and a glue stick and no 673 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,920 responsibilities. And, and my hope is like, I've 674 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,840 heard people have this experience with like two hand 675 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,400 path where they are doodling throughout the play of the game. 676 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,840 And it's like, oh, I actually, I'm, I'm really proud of this. 677 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,640 The thing that I made in the process, like where in a time 678 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,960 where I just was doing it because I was being instructed 679 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,240 to at the end, you're kind of like, oh, well, I have made 680 00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:45,880 something that was kind of cool. Like maybe I'll do more collage 681 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,640 or maybe I'll, you know, just, I don't know. 682 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,880 I think I've as an artist, it's so it's so common for somebody 683 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,840 to be like, I can't throw stick finger. 684 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,320 It's like, Oh my gosh, did you try like, like have you ever 685 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,160 gotten out like any tools and just like giving it a shot? 686 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,960 Because like, yeah, I definitely missed that. 687 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,880 I was listening to another the Dice Explorer podcast and they 688 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,480 they talked a lot about like on this episode about two hand path 689 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:19,160 and like just how kids like make art because it's fun and it's 690 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,880 like you can do that. Like just take all the like 691 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,800 judgment out of your mind and just do it like. 692 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,960 What am what am I without that little voice judging me in the 693 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,680 back of my head though? Yeah, well, maybe it would be. 694 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:36,080 Not that hard to find out. Going to wreck a couple cards 695 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,440 and see what you feel deck. Of cards it costs you 3 bucks, 696 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,440 you can get another one exactly like. 697 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,920 It tomorrow, yeah. Go insane. 698 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,640 I do really like the low bar to just like getting started on 699 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:55,280 that because I think a lot of people's I'm going to complain. 700 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,480 I'm not going to call a valid complaint with a lot of games. 701 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,840 It's just getting going, just getting started and actually 702 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,080 going up. And it's not this game seems 703 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,240 very easy to just like, yeah, do the five cards, do a little bit 704 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:09,920 of the the the generation stuff and then you're then you're in 705 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,640 the game and going and it's really nice. 706 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:16,160 And like you said, there's a commitment to to getting going. 707 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,160 So I feel like once you've like kind of fucked up that first 708 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,680 card, you're like, well, we're doing this now right here. 709 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,200 We're seeing this to the end. I'm not going to stop at this 710 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,800 point. It's just real fast. 711 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:33,640 Yeah, so, so it is Zing Quest. This is on Kickstarter. 712 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,600 So as far as a Kickstarter goes, what like tears? 713 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,280 What can, what rewards can people expect to have? 714 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,480 What can actually get for bonds between? 715 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,760 Yeah, thanks for asking. Yeah, we've got like AI want in 716 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:54,120 later tier for $2.00. That's like I just want to have 717 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,040 the chance to come back and you know, look at the the post 718 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,120 campaign and or like get add-ons or whatever. 719 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:08,160 And then we have a $10 PDF tier, $20.00 for the book and the PDF 720 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,640 is included in all the other tiers from there on. 721 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:17,720 So $20.00 for the Zine. We made a square book which 722 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:23,880 that's my dragon tangent is formatting so. 723 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,240 It's going to be she wanted a square book and everyone and all 724 00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:32,360 the rest of us were like, we can't stop you and we're not 725 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,640 sure we would want to. Yeah. 726 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,200 So it's it's it's on that line of Zine like it's going to be 727 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,040 seen by page count. But I think we're perfect 728 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,080 binding it for logistical reasons. 729 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:54,040 So they'll have a tiny spine. So that's the the $20 tier. 730 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,040 And then we have a, I'm doing this by memory. 731 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,320 So we have a $60.00 retailer tier. 732 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,640 So if you're a retailer and you want to get 6 copies of the 733 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:11,960 book, you can go ahead and like pre-order those $60.00 mailbox 734 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,960 tier, which is our version of, it's not quite a box set, it's a 735 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,440 mailbox set. All the stuff you need to play 736 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:26,640 arrives in your in your mailbox. Yeah, we'll send you the, but 737 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,880 we'll send you the book, we'll send you the Zine, we'll send 738 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,960 you a journal, we'll send you a deck of cards. 739 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,800 We'll send you some stickers to to mess around with. 740 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:39,720 And we'll send you a permission slip to Rex and Deck of Cards. 741 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,600 Yeah. And then the $100 tier is that 742 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:48,320 plus we'll customize a the team will customize a card for you. 743 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,320 We had an early bird tear as well. 744 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,920 That's that's gone. So some people will be getting 745 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:58,680 it a custom like a pre doodled in journal. 746 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,960 But they're like the custom card is the the version of that 747 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,960 that's still out there. Yeah. 748 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:11,120 And then we just have like, I think the stickers are add-ons 749 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:16,200 and the journals an add on. And then like if you want to get 750 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:21,520 some Breitbart games or precious things, those are, you know, all 751 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,360 the past catalog of graph bounds, pretty New South 752 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,360 precious things is kind of the game. 753 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,080 But as far as like Breitbart games, like the stuff that. 754 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,920 You can pick up axolotl with a gun or I. 755 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,280 Can pick up Yeah. If you want to fight God, you'd 756 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,400 be a. Coma over the trench goat. 757 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,160 It's. Fine, yes, Terminus and I crave 758 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,280 loop and those things are are available too very. 759 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:46,560 Cool, that's cool. Yeah. 760 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:52,840 And and so you said 3 1/2 weeks, did you get started on February 761 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,240 1st? Start on the 4th. 4th right? 762 00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:59,000 So there's 16 days left to go. Just over two weeks. 763 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:04,200 You guys are 2/3 ish funded so you got plenty of time to to get 764 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:05,200 this if you're listening. To this. 765 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:09,640 Yeah, listen, you get a third of the last 24 hours. 766 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,560 I, I'm confident in this. It's a great looking project. 767 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,880 You guys are, are wonderful. The ideas and it, you know, cuz 768 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,480 it's more than just, hey, here's cute Dragons. 769 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,920 Obviously, like the depth to which you guys have thought 770 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,720 about the game, not only in the way you're altering the cards, 771 00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:27,640 but why and even like the choice of the Dragons is, is really, 772 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,240 really interesting and like it's, it's much deeper than it 773 00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:32,320 seems on the surface. And I was really glad to, to 774 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,560 talk about, you know, again, the depth that you put into it. 775 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,720 So this is a lot more than it seems at first glance, but it's 776 00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:45,040 still really interesting on its own and another duet game for 777 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,640 for the shelf for a lot of people that don't have those out 778 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,720 there. It's neat. 779 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:51,360 People should definitely go grab this. 780 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,440 You definitely go. I'll make sure all of the links. 781 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,120 It is on the overlay down there at the bottom. 782 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,800 We got a brand new Bitly link that'll take you right to it. 783 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,320 Bitly slash bonds between, but we'll make sure that all the 784 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:04,080 links are down there below. And for for Emily and Lucas, 785 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,360 where can people find your stuff, either your individual 786 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,600 things or precious things or, or where they can find you if they 787 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,960 want layout or or whatnot. Collectively we're at 788 00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:24,000 graphbound.com or graphbound dot blue sky dot social, very easy 789 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:30,480 to say or Instagram Graphbound, that stuff socials and then 790 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:38,520 Breitbart is Breitbart games. I came prepared. 791 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,400 Yeah. And Bree, Bree Dannon, at Bree 792 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,520 Dannon and at resident Bard individually. 793 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,880 That is Breitbart games dot itch dot IO, and they also have a 794 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:57,600 link tree that's just Breitbart and then a Breitbart dot blue 795 00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,160 sky dot. Social. 796 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:01,680 Yeah, Breitbart, dot dot blue sky. 797 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,360 And then individually for me, I'm at odds and it's pretty much 798 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:12,680 everywhere including odds and it's on itch where I do like if 799 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:17,520 you need some of the some assets or whatever you can check those 800 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,520 out and then. We actually just saw some of 801 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,320 your assets yesterday when we were talking to the guys from 802 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:23,680 Prequel. Yeah. 803 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:24,320 Yes. Oh. 804 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,480 Wow, yeah, I did some some icons for them. 805 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:32,600 Yeah, that was really cool. And then, yeah, if you want me 806 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:41,560 to do layout after like July, you can my portfolios at 807 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,120 emilyantner.com and there's like a contact form there. 808 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,960 Or you can just look at the other games I've done and judge 809 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,080 me on my work, which is kind of why it's out there. 810 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:59,600 Yeah, and and Lucas, where can we find you? 811 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,400 I'm on Instagram at Lucas Zellers. 812 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,880 That's probably the most engaging way to find me. 813 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,120 I'm trying desperately to make Blue Sky the new TTRPG Twitter, 814 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,440 so I'm going to be having a lot more conversations out there. 815 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:18,160 But like for the ritzy, glitzy stuff about like what you know 816 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,680 what for example Baldur'sgate might have missed about 817 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:25,240 dragonborn ecology and some ill advised adventures in miniature 818 00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:28,600 painting you can find me on on Instagram. 819 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,160 Most of my work in terms of writing or editing for the 820 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:38,200 community these days is through. Oh. 821 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:41,840 Suspenseful. We'll never know there was. 822 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,080 Something. Everyone was so still that I 823 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,360 thought I froze, but Nope, it's just like this. 824 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,040 I was just, I don't know. We're back anyway. 825 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,000 OK, I'm back. Yeah. 826 00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:55,760 Short version, find me on Instagram. 827 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,760 I work with main Chan press, so a lot of my writing and design 828 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,400 comes out through them. We're doing a horror RPG called 829 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,600 Blood on the Lens. Some of my design work is in 830 00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:06,960 there. And you can play that now. 831 00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,360 And if you want to see entirely, if you want to see some more of 832 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,720 this iceberg with like entirely too much thought about how 833 00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:16,960 Dragons work and for example, what Baldersgate might have 834 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,760 missed about the ecology of Dragonborn, there will be reels. 835 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,560 There you go. All right, well, we'll make 836 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,080 sure. Like we said, all the links to 837 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:27,920 to finding these fine folks are below. 838 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,960 Listen, first, thank you for being a fan of the show, Emily. 839 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,840 That was very nice to see you at PAX and someone to come up and 840 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,400 talk to us. But thank you for making this 841 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,360 really fun game and coming on to talk to us about it. 842 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,320 We really appreciate it. Yeah. 843 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:41,520 Thank you. Pleasure guys. 844 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,320 Thanks for having us. Yeah, of course. 845 00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,720 Absolutely. And that is going to be us for 846 00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:49,000 today. Thank you all for listening and 847 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,720 we'll be here at some point probably Friday. 848 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,120 All right, everybody. Bye everybody. 849 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:56,400 I have a zip file to look at.