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Hello and welcome to the Weekly 
Scroll podcast. 

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My Name Is Ryan. 
And I'm the fell handed. 

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Oh, I'm Sam Slim. 
I do Space Cowboys. 

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My name is Zach. 
I'm also here doing Space 

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Cowboys. 
I didn't think that was the 

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whole introduction. 
Yeah, that's it. 

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We don't do shit. 
But this we don't have here a 

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list of accolades to go after 
our names, so no worries. 

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It happens every single time, 
100% of the time. 

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So. 
So yes, This Is Us. 

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We are them. 
And this is a weekly show 

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podcast and these are the people
from Soul Muppet Publishing 

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talking about sad Space Cowboys,
Orbital Blues and the new if you

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look Beside me, Kickstarter 
going on right now. 

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This is after burn. 
So I guess. 

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I guess kicking it off. 
Yeah, right right above Sam 

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there. 
So what is What is Orbital 

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Blues? 
Although Blues is a game about 

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sad space Cowboys, it is lo fi 
space western role-playing where

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players take on the role of 
interstellar outlaws and form 

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crews and they try and make a 
living and survive in a Galaxy 

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that doesn't care if they live 
or die. 

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It is ruled by solwas 
corporations and it's only the 

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gig economy that is keeping you 
going. 

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So just like real. 
Life way too close to home, Yes.

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Yes, yeah, absolutely. 
It's a game about self-employed 

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people with depression living on
the capitalism so. 

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Yes. 
That's what we're aiming for, 

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right? 
So amazing. 

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Listen, we just need spaceships 
and we're there. 

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So that is what Orbital Blues 
is. 

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But like, how did Orbital Blues 
actually come to be? 

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This is the second Kickstarter. 
This is the first expansion, the

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first big wave expansion. 
Cuz there's a lot going on with 

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this project right now that 
we're gonna be talking about. 

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But I know the original Orbital 
Blues has been out for a little 

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while. 
I have like all of it right 

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there. 
But what was the? 

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Actual is. 
I think that's it. 

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I feel like it's been much. 
Yeah, maybe. 

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So the yeah, the original 
Kickstarter was like April 2021,

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and then the book would have 
been like released in people's 

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hands in physical form was like 
April 22. 

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So it's actually only been like 
18 months since the first wave 

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of. 
His hands Which? 

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You, you've, you've, you've got,
it feels like it's longer 

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because of, you know, the what's
happening in the world and how 

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time has increased less meaning 
is it? 

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Yeah, it was. 
It was written throughout 

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Lockdown, I feel like. 
So it started, as many British 

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ideas do, it started in a pub. 
Which one was it? 

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Zack, The one at the bottom. 
In Nottingham if I remember. 

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Correctly, yeah. 
Wherein me and Zack were having 

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pizza and beers and I was like, 
I want to do a game that does 

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Cowboy Bebop. 
In space, well, it would kind of

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be up in space anyway, but I 
want to do a sci-fi game. 

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I'm not a big sci-fi guy. 
I'm more of a fantasy person 

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myself. 
Not that you would like be able 

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to tell looking for my back 
catalogue but Zach was like 

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yeah, absolutely. 
And like Zach did best left 

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buried, which is it has like the
same sort of bones in that your 

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freelancers suffering under. 
A gig economy of sorts, like. 

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So if you just. 
Want to play best left buried 

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because that that is like. 
The pitch for Best Left Buried 

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is that you're playing 
professional adventurers who are

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employed by a bank to go into 
ruins and get money. 

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And obviously it explores the, 
to me, the logical conclusion of

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the dungeoneering thing as a 
horror simulation. 

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And then let your characters 
becoming certainly more 

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bedraggled over time is they 
have to deal with these really 

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terrible worker conditions. 
So like on the back of a post it

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note, I think Orbital Blues and 
Best F Player are like quite 

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similar games in that one of 
them is about being 

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self-employed and one of them is
about having a job at a big 

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company and both know about how 
that can suck under capitalism. 

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Obviously one's in space and 
one's in a. 

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In in Underground. 
But it's still the same idea. 

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So I was looking for like a 
second RPG to put out through 

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Soul Muppet that kind of used 
the same engine. 

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Me and Sam were good friends. 
Some have written an amazing 

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best that great adventure for me
called Beneath the Missing Sea. 

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The pitch of which is like 
you're playing adventurers who 

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are an an ocean has disappeared 
from this like quite arid part 

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of the world. 
And it creates an adventuring 

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gold rush as all of these people
are trying to get closer to the 

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bottom of the dungeon. 
I imagine if you could just walk

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to the bottom of the ocean and 
suddenly you're like, you start 

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5 levels lower in the dungeon, 
right? 

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So that was a really fantastic 
adventure. 

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And Sam pitched me like this 
game with Josh as the artist we 

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wanted to work with and this 
sort of sad space. 

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Cowboy Best Left Buried game 
appeared that sort of started 

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off as a bit of a hack and then 
kind of developed and bloomed 

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off into its own game which is 
kind of you know as popular if 

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not more popular now certainly 
than best Left Buried. 

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So it's it was the genesis was 
there and that was in like 

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December 2020. 
So we spent. 18 was that pre 

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pandemic? 
That was pre pandemic, yeah, 

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because we did, we, we did have 
a meeting about that. 

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Like in person before it all 
went to ship. 

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And. 
You couldn't go outside anymore,

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but it was kind of really 
amusing because Sam and I were 

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stuck in houses like half a mile
from each other, unable to talk 

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to each other, both thinking 
about the same game at the same 

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time. 
So a lot of Zoom meetings we 

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could have done by shouting at 
each other loudly. 

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Yeah, it was weird. 
It was a game that was like, 

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written. 
It was like planned and pitched,

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pre, locked down, written 
throughout it, and then it very 

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much like launched into the real
world, into a post pandemic 

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world. 
So it really went through the 

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ringer. 
And and it and it got sadder as 

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we got sadder throughout that 
year as well you know. 

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Yeah, yeah and to And this is 
that is how like SAD for XP came

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about where? 
I was like, I don't want to do a

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game where you're just going 
around and getting bounties and 

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killing bad guys and robbing 
banks and stuff, and that's 

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what's getting you XP. 
But I don't know how to do that,

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do an alternative to that in a 
Ludo narrative manner. 

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And so Zach came up with this. 
Notion that was sad for XP is 

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what it was. 
If you put it like on a on a, 

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post it note Zack explain Sad 
for XP. 

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So Orbital Blues have This is 
how we've been rocking at MCM 

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this weekend. 
We were at Comic Con. 

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Sam would do the first half of 
the pitch and be like now talk 

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about the mechanics because 
like, that's the split of us as 

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creatives. 
Sam's the vibes guy and I'm the 

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person that writes all the 
rules. 

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So. 
Yeah, it's a good division of 

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labour, you know. 
Sorry. 

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Yeah, I can't. 
I can't do maths. 

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I can't do maths. 
I spent all my time in in. 

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I spent all my start points in 
in English. 

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So. 
So Zack does. 

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Does mechanics make sure that 
it's actually a functional game 

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and not just like an evocative 
book? 

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So one of the the thing you pick
in orbital booze, which is like 

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the closest equivalent to a 
class we actually have is this 

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thing called a trouble, which 
is. 

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The reason that you are sad in 
space and in a normal 

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role-playing game, you get 
experience points, fight Sam 

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saying like killing monsters or 
doing quests or getting treasure

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or something in all the Blues 
you get it for being sad. 

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So your trouble gives you a set 
of five character back story 

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prompts and three like gameplay 
prompts, and you answer a couple

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of those back story prompts 
during. 

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Play like during character 
creation, and as you answer more

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in play, you get additional 
points to this thing called 

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Blues, which is obviously what 
we name the game after. 

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And then you also get them for 
like role-playing in line with 

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this trouble as well. 
There's all kinds of troubles. 

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There's eighteen different ones,
which means you're never going 

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to have two or the same one on a
spaceship. 

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But you might be bloodthirsty 
and want to solve all your 

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problems with violence, Or have 
a devil in the bottle and be an 

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alcoholic, or be in too deep 
with some gang or lovesick. 

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My favorite one is Party Animal,
which is just like you really 

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love hanging out and being cool 
and having a party and using 

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that to cover up how you 
actually feel. 

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And essentially like what these 
do is they give you mechanical 

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incentives to play a brooding, 
bluesy disaster bastard who just

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gets things wrong all the time. 
And like, even if you're winning

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in a in a combat, you can make 
it exciting by like, you know. 

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And expressing how sad it is 
that doing this thing makes you.

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And obviously when you're using 
up all of these Blues points, 

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you kind of gain them as you're 
playing. 

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There's this level up ritual 
where you what is called your 

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troubles of brewing. 
And at that point, you've 

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reached enough Blues that you're
ready for kind of like the 

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climax of your emotional arc, 
which is like a. 

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A gunfight or a meltdown or an 
argument or just a really sad 

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moment for your character. 
Something emotionally charged 

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doesn't really matter what it is
precisely. 

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And then you get a bunch of 
bonuses for the duration of that

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scene. 
And then you level up and 

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become, you know, you get a new 
ability or something or a new 

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trouble. 
You change what you trouble as 

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your stats increase. 
So literally, your characters 

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become more powerful by 
role-playing. 

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How sad they are. 
It is. 

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It's really interesting. 
It's definitely one of my like 

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more enjoyed ways to like grow 
your character versus like you 

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know, we we cover a bunch of 
stuff that's like very 

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mechanical dungeon diving stuff.
And then there are games like 

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this where it's like very 
narrative driven and you're like

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you're living out your 
character's arc and you're 

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creating new problems for your 
character overcoming your 

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problems. 
There's a sad saxophone in the 

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background the entire time. 
It's really, it's a really 

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enjoyable system. 
Yeah, right. 

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And the plan was for us to like,
give your characters, give 

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players GMs, easy tools with 
which to immediately hook 

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themselves into genre, right? 
Because that's the thing we're 

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trying to nail here. 
We're trying to there's types of

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media we're trying to replicate,
right? 

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We're trying to hit your. 
Cowboy beatbox, your fireflies, 

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your Mandalorians, even bits of 
stuff like Guardians of the 

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Galaxy, these like scrappy crews
of robes trying to get things 

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done in space. 
And obviously like there's more 

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examples of you to take that 
away from the spaceship genre, 

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like stuff that exists in that. 
Cool. 

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Down family space and this was 
the quickest way I could come up

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with of like really precisely 
nailing a genre you were aiming 

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for and. 
And essentially all. 

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And it's a really powerful 
technology as well, because it 

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doesn't just do XP, it also 
generates like behavioural 

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prompts. 
So kind of gives you quick 

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characterisation because like if
you ever are confused about what

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your character should do, you 
should do the saddest thing 

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possible, which is look at one 
of your three trouble prompts 

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and do that. 
It generates contacts and 

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locations and rivals because 
some of the questions are like. 

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In Party Animal, tell me a place
you used to throw down or tell 

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me somebody used to party with, 
right? 

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That's generating people. 
And sometimes they do factions 

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and generate like pieces of 
equipment you have or like fun 

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things about the character in 
terms of like what brand of 

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alcohol is your favorite thing? 
Like, you know, little world 

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building things, little things 
to attach onto, and like kernels

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of information for GMs to pull 
adventure and immediate drama 

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out of because it's centres. 
Your experience mechanics around

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looking at the saddest thing 
that ever happened to you, 

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right? 
I'm the most emotionally charged

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thing about it. 
So yeah, it's a real potent 

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piece of game design technology 
that I'm slightly worried I may 

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never top as a designer. 
But you know, whatever, I've got

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time left. 
I'll be doing this for a while I

228
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,400
hope you know, listen we we we 
hope that you'll be doing it for

229
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:03,440
a while as well. 
I it's it's a great mechanic and

230
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,920
it's one of the funnest part of 
the game, but there's so much 

231
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,360
more like in the game that's 
also fantastic as well. 

232
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:16,120
It's just a piece that like how 
between the mechanics, I know 

233
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,440
you said there's this division 
of Labor, you did the mechanics 

234
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:21,920
and Sam did did most of the 
writing and and the manuscript 

235
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,120
and everything. 
Putting all of that together, 

236
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,600
was that difficult to try to 
keep those mechanics going? 

237
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,040
Or did you really just build off
as a bear, like you said and 

238
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,840
then try to like fix it into the
system? 

239
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,040
Or were there a lot of other 
things, like the sad for XP 

240
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,920
thing? 
No, not not really. 

241
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,120
It was quite seamless, I would 
say, because I had worked with 

242
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,160
Best Left Buried previously, so 
I was familiar with like Zach's 

243
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:52,480
style of writing and the sort of
mechanical language used. 

244
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:58,800
So I could emulate that and rap,
rap the narrative and the the 

245
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,840
vibes around that, and 
similarly. 

246
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:07,280
Zach could write in a similar 
sort of style to to the way I 

247
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:12,080
was writing. 
So like it, it was very seamless

248
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:19,080
to just go from me writing an 
introduction of how this 

249
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:25,120
universe is filled with people 
who are not doing great and are 

250
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:30,480
struggling with with their own 
well-being and then for. 

251
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,320
Zach to bullet point the key 
parts of each trouble and then 

252
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,200
write a little bit of flavour 
text or a short description 

253
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:45,400
under each one and then in the 
next chapter go into OK, the 

254
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,320
Galaxy is full of a myriad of 
ships from all different 

255
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:54,200
corporations and manufacturers, 
all operating for different 

256
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,160
purposes. 
And then was going into some 

257
00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,640
like combined mechanical writing
of. 

258
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:06,680
Ship tables and like roll for 
where the ship's chassis 

259
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,600
originates kind of thing. 
So I would say it was pretty 

260
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,560
seamless. 
Zack may disagree, but it was 

261
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,880
definitely. 
Iterative, right. 

262
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,920
Because yeah, we when we wrote 
the first version of manuscript,

263
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,040
it skewed really closely to best
left buried. 

264
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,240
It was basically like very 
similar. 

265
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,960
And the main thing that was 
different was the sort of the 

266
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,240
mechanical skeleton was the same
and then Sam had done a bunch of

267
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,280
like. 
Work on the tops of the vibes 

268
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,680
and layering and stuff. 
And as we kind of worked more on

269
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,240
it, it kind of found its own 
steam and developed like further

270
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,240
away, like in the first two or 
three drafts. 

271
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,960
Troubles weren't there, right? 
And weapons and space combat was

272
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,160
something that we iterated on a 
lot because it was really 

273
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,040
important to us. 
It was exciting for all the 

274
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:50,440
parts to be there so. 
Like. 

275
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,760
There's some bits of it that 
like stayed the whole way 

276
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,360
through, but it's like always as
it was just making a game. 

277
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,040
The first draft that you go to 
play test with is like. 

278
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,000
Often quite different from the 
final version, I think for me 

279
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,480
personally I felt originally a 
lot of like loyalty to the fans 

280
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,040
of Best F Bray to try and make 
something that felt the same 

281
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:09,920
way. 
But then I realised. 

282
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,320
We realised over time that. 
It wanted to be its own 

283
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,920
different thing, and I'm happy 
that we made those decisions to 

284
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,320
distance it in some way. 
Because like, yeah, there are 

285
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,480
some rules are exactly the same,
like the core mechanic and how 

286
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,440
attacks work and stuff, But 
we've added and changed lots of 

287
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,440
bits that work in different ways
because it's trying to hit a 

288
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,600
different purpose. 
Am I right in thinking that the 

289
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,120
general difficulty in orb or 
Blues is 1 lower than it is in 

290
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,040
best Left Buried? 
Yeah, that was a big. 

291
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,160
That was a big example, right? 
It used to be 9 and it was until

292
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,000
very late in play testing and we
shifted it. 

293
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,280
One down, Because we think that 
the world in orbital Blues is, 

294
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,640
like, physically more forgiving 
than the one in Best of Buried 

295
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,480
Is and Then you Want. 
To feel cooler, You don't want 

296
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,560
to be desperate in a dungeon. 
You you want to be in orbital 

297
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,960
Blues, you know, not by much, 
and definitely not because you 

298
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,040
the dentistry. 
Yeah, I mean, I think genre that

299
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,160
makes a lot of sense, right? 
I mean, if you watch Firefly or 

300
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:04,839
Cowboy Bebop or something like 
that, it's like. 

301
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,920
The player deaths are deaths are
if they happen, they're like 

302
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,480
incredibly dramatic and like 
story driven and I think you 

303
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:15,280
like do a really good job of 
emulating that in this game with

304
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,440
the swan song and everything. 
Oh yeah, Sam Wax lyrical about 

305
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,480
the song, Swan song. 
That's like my favorite thing. 

306
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,240
Yeah, I I that was I I think 
that was one of the like. 

307
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,320
Like maybe the mechanical 
contribution I made and I was 

308
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,840
like, you get to play a song and
you break the mechanics and you 

309
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:39,800
rules don't matter because 
you're going to die, just play 

310
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:45,360
them out kind of thing. 
Is that because my my 

311
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:52,040
contributions to mechanics tend 
to make Zach like? 

312
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,440
Brain melt because they usually 
put. 

313
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,040
It like that, but I enjoy it. 
But like when you say to me 

314
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,120
like, oh, you know what happens 
in this mechanic is that we play

315
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:04,520
music and then all the rules are
ignored. 

316
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,200
I'm like, yeah, yes, go off 
king. 

317
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,160
Do it. 
Make it so like that's it's it's

318
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,560
a good country. 
Ultimately like the game is 

319
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:18,760
quite quite quite bleak, like a 
bit bit miserable the the player

320
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,720
characters are. 
Not having a great time and if 

321
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,880
you do something cool, we want 
it to feel, want it to feel good

322
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,640
and we don't want it to feel 
like you're constantly in like. 

323
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:34,160
An uphill battle to find some 
enjoyment there, and if you 

324
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,680
manage to track down the people 
that you hate so much, or the 

325
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,920
people that you've been 
searching for for a for a life 

326
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,880
changing bounty or pull off a 
heist. 

327
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:50,920
We want your moment of glory and
you want your your time to shine

328
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,920
essentially as a as a player 
character. 

329
00:18:54,240 --> 00:19:00,040
Yeah, really incredibly cool. 
Yeah, good game feel is what is 

330
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,920
what we strove for and I think 
that we, I think we've managed 

331
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,360
that definitely. 
And it was really cool for me 

332
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:11,800
because I I haven't been very 
online for the last couple of 

333
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:16,600
years and to go to London MCM 
this weekend and speak to people

334
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:21,240
who've been playing it and 
running it and them saying like 

335
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,880
oh this is this is like a really
amazing game to play. 

336
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,160
This is this feels great. 
This looks great I. 

337
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,480
It was. 
It was like praise all round for

338
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,080
for the whole team and that was 
that. 

339
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,320
Was really nice to to see and 
hear. 

340
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaking of the whole team, the 
fucking art as well, right? 

341
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,760
And the graphic design is 
insane. 

342
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:43,040
Ridiculous. 
Yeah. 

343
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,840
Like, yeah, the the style that. 
So Joshua Clark, Tiny Woodsman, 

344
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,320
is the artist that we've worked 
on a kind of like I alluded to 

345
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:56,800
earlier, like how I described is
it, Josh was high before I was. 

346
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,560
I was originally just going to 
be a person, like paying for 

347
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,840
things, and it was like, Sam 
wants to write this, Josh can do

348
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,040
the art and it's like, it's the 
way it started off. 

349
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,640
At least it's kind of evolved a 
bit now was that Josh would like

350
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,280
take photo composites of 
different pieces of public 

351
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,560
domain photography and kind of 
smash them together, take photos

352
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:17,720
of them and paint over them and 
stuff. 

353
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,080
Yeah, yeah, it's just like Kit, 
Kit. 

354
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,960
So the the way that he works, 
I'm I'm sure that he'll correct 

355
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,520
me if he's watching this, but 
it's like using composite 

356
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:34,280
imagery and sometimes it can be 
like really the way that he puts

357
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,440
them together is mosaic and 
quite far fetched. 

358
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,720
There's a ship in the book 
that's made entirely of 

359
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,080
lampshades and ladders and if 
someone can get back to me and 

360
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:51,240
tell me which one is, yeah, Gold
Star or it's using like shapes 

361
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,720
to to build this like framework 
and then being painted over with

362
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,800
a lot of like composite 
photography also being painted 

363
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,000
over. 
Because I I personally wanted 

364
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,080
something that looked not 
photorealistic because I'm a 

365
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,880
little weird with games that 
have actual photos in them. 

366
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:16,520
Looking at UI and Swan and I, I 
wanted something that felt 

367
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:21,000
realistic but not too realistic.
And I didn't want something that

368
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,920
was too stylized either, because
I wanted the book to to feel 

369
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,400
like a very grounded piece. 
I wanted adverts and then that 

370
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:29,720
was something that I wanted from
the get go. 

371
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,400
I was like, I want to turn a 
page and I want to feel like I'm

372
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,840
reading a catalogue that this 
thing is sponsored by company 

373
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,200
and that's how it's in your 
hands. 

374
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:44,680
And so I think we one of the 
early pieces that we got was the

375
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,280
Calder one, which was the easy 
where nobody does it like Calder

376
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,160
and it's a it's a guy in a space
suit in a sort of like fashion 

377
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,600
magazine sort of style. 
And that was that was like 

378
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,800
really good. 
That was like Chef's case. 

379
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,240
We're there, that's what that's 
what we're doing. 

380
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:07,040
We want this book to feel like. 
It's full of ads, yeah, in world

381
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,160
advertising materials, band 
posters. 

382
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,560
Election campaigns Here's places
you go on your holiday. 

383
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,640
Please buy this spaceship. 
Here's an advert for like 

384
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,040
they're hiring Brav engineers 
for the new space station. 

385
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,840
It's just it's it's just all 
fucking gorgeous like and Josh 

386
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,960
has continued knocking it out of
the park when it's come to the 

387
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,160
afterburn stuff and all the 
adventures that have come since 

388
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,520
and kind of. 
Books. 

389
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,520
We've gone for a kind of all the
the sense of like, verse 

390
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,800
similitude, like this could be 
an object in a world it feels 

391
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,080
lived in. 
Every page is weathered and 

392
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,880
stained and beaten and dog 
eared. 

393
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,680
Even though the book looks 
Immaculate from a like, it's 

394
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,280
just it's vibe vibes all the way
down. 

395
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,880
Vibes in the right. 
Yeah, vibes in the I remember. 

396
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,360
When we reviewed it, we 
definitely said that. 

397
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,160
However great the game is 
mechanically and like that, the 

398
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,840
vibes and the way the mechanics 
dig into those vibes, this might

399
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,320
be the vibiest, coolest game 
that's on my shelf. 

400
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,440
I don't know if there's a game 
where I felt cooler. 

401
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,280
I don't know, especially like 
cooler than sad. 

402
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,280
I will say that one of the 
things we were just talking 

403
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,520
about was with Joshua Clark. 
The Wayward Stars book is 

404
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,680
absolutely amazing. 
Yeah. 

405
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,920
Art book that explains like how 
the art was done, like from Josh

406
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,440
and everything is if you anyone 
out there that actually that has

407
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,120
orbital Blues. 
Having that book too only adds 

408
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,720
like a whole nother layer to it 
when you actually know how the 

409
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,680
art was created, where it came 
from and all this stuff, it's 

410
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,680
just, it's fantastic And that's 
in. 

411
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,680
You can get that with the new 
Kickstarter as well, right? 

412
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,720
A reprint of the waiver stars, 
yeah. 

413
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:49,840
We've printed many, many art 
books, and people, you know, 

414
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,880
people don't buy them as often 
as I thought they would because 

415
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,280
it's a. 
Is this Immaculate, like through

416
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,640
composed thing that Josh made 
entirely himself over the course

417
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:02,080
of like two or three weeks? 
Just like explaining how he he 

418
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:07,520
came to us quite late on in the 
the process and said I keep 

419
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,200
screenshots. 
I take screenshots of all my 

420
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,760
work in progresses in case I 
need to restore anything or wind

421
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,320
things back. 
And I would be really interested

422
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,480
in doing a write up of a making 
of do you think anyone would be 

423
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,160
interested in that to which me 
and Zach will like? 

424
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,840
Yeah like absolutely. 
Like even if we don't take that 

425
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,800
to a general market I'd be 
interested in seeing that as 

426
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:41,280
part of the creative process. 
And so he he went away and made 

427
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,320
it and said like I want to do 
this just on on my own. 

428
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:45,760
I'll get back to you once I've 
once. 

429
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:51,680
I've got a a manuscript and he 
came back to us with pretty much

430
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,640
a finished book, all done with 
layout that he did himself. 

431
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,760
I budgeted in the crowdfunding 
spreadsheet to hire like an 

432
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,240
editor. 
Didn't need it. 

433
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,080
Layout artists and stuff. 
Didn't need it mate. 

434
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,000
I ran through it in an afternoon
making sure that all like the 

435
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,520
grammar was correct and the full
stops were in the right place 

436
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,280
and there wasn't any typos. 
Talking about an hour and then 

437
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,520
it was done. 
It was just like it was handed 

438
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,040
to us on a plate, which was 
amazing. 

439
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:20,320
Shout out Josh, get way with 
stars if you have the 

440
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:21,920
opportunity. 
Definitely get way with stars. 

441
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,720
That is is such a great coffee 
table piece. 

442
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,640
Or if you have any kind of 
interest in how like how the 

443
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,560
sausage is made for RPGs, then 
that is a real eye opener. 

444
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,360
It is a really great piece. 
It's. 

445
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,000
Gorgeous and it is a coffee 
table book. 

446
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,200
It's not small by any special 
imagination. 

447
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,000
It's like a nice. 
He was very adamant that he 

448
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:49,160
wanted it in a non standard 
dimension 4 horizontal. 

449
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,200
Yeah, I was. 
Going to say to a four, yeah. 

450
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,200
A4 Horizontal Yeah, which was. 
I think I have two a four books.

451
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,600
I think that was the first time 
you made a book of those 

452
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,280
dimensions, Zack. 
And you're like, I don't know if

453
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,280
we can we. 
Definitely could like it's just 

454
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,760
the printers, you know. 
I had to explain to the printers

455
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,640
very carefully. 
Oh, it's not this one, it's that

456
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,000
one. 
And they would all the bindings.

457
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:12,120
It's fine. 
It worked out. 

458
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,600
So. 
Afterburn is what we're what 

459
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,280
we're looking at right now and 
that is if the the Kickstarter 

460
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:22,760
that's happening. 
This is, like I said before, the

461
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,920
first big wave of expansion 
stuff for for Orbital Blues. 

462
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,600
Because it's not just a book, 
there is a lot of stuff that 

463
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,960
comes with it. 
So talk to me about Afterburn, 

464
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,640
like how long have you guys been
working on that? 

465
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,040
Like what? 
What can we expect from this 

466
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,280
first big expansion to Orbital 
Blues? 

467
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:41,640
So we've been like, OK, I was 
like. 

468
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,720
Yeah, we've been talking about 
what we wanted to do for a while

469
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,840
and Josh has been. 
We've been very busy working on 

470
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,080
all the stretch goal adventures 
we agreed to make as part of the

471
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,440
expansion. 
There's now like 5 completed 

472
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,680
soft cover adventures from a 
series of amazing artists around

473
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,600
the world with all kinds of 
different adventures like 

474
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:04,960
tightly plotted act based linear
stuff, sandbox adventures, 

475
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:11,040
dungeon crawls, hub worlds like.
Dungeon areas like space 

476
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,880
stations with all the stuff on 
them like cities, and we sort of

477
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,200
looked at what's the next step. 
Now we've done all this stuff. 

478
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,160
We greeted from the kick start 
to what do we want to do? 

479
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,600
And there was a whole bunch of 
things we eventually settled on.

480
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,400
But the two things I really want
to make were was, well, the one 

481
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,240
thing I want to make, which is 
the reason that I bullied 

482
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,040
everyone into it, was I wanted 
to make a box set. 

483
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,680
Because my favorite thing in RPG
has been for a while is one of 

484
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,120
these babies, the Estate Box set
from Mouse Rear. 

485
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,960
I'm such a mouse Ritter, 
Enjoyer. 

486
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,360
Mine is Mine is the black Hack 
Box Boy. 

487
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:48,400
It's the same sort of vibe. 
Yeah, And so we said, like I 

488
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,360
said, I want to make a VHSI want
to make a sorry, I've scored the

489
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:53,120
punchline, We want to make a 
box. 

490
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,480
And I think it was Sam that said
we need to put it in a VHS case.

491
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,920
No, it was Will it fit in a VHS 
case? 

492
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,760
Because I couldn't remember what
a VHS how big a VHS case was, 

493
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,360
which then LED us down a side 
quest of sourcing a VHS case to 

494
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:12,640
check the measurements it. 
Yeah, it's what. 

495
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,840
Was it it was the tape whole 
thing? 

496
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,320
What was the tape that you 
found? 

497
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,120
I I eventually it was AI. 
Can't remember? 

498
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:23,920
But we found it. 
We worked how many things you 

499
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,840
could stuff in it. 
But the main thing that's in 

500
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,840
that is not a thing that exists 
to satisfy my childish fantasies

501
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,880
is this big spaceship book of 
kind of the that basically fills

502
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,320
in all the gaps of stuff. 
We wanted to fit in the original

503
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,800
orbital Blues, but kind of 
couldn't fit in because of page 

504
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,000
count. 
We wanted to keep it like a 

505
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,800
tight 200 pages because I like. 
We both like books of that scale

506
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:51,600
that feel really usable like. 
The thing with the character, 

507
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,680
the characters in Orbital Blues,
is that we'd we'd left this 

508
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,880
really strong vibe of like what 
a really potent player character

509
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,520
looks like. 
You know, you pick your ideas, 

510
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,840
you pick your troubles, you 
gambits, you grab some weapons, 

511
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,880
you grab from that big orange 
spread at the beginning. 

512
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,040
It's like I'm the Hick, I'm the 
lonely heart, I'm the chain 

513
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,760
smoker, I'm the cowboy, which is
like such strong 

514
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,920
characterisation, but kind of we
wanted to do more with the 

515
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,120
spaceships. 
And when you look at like all 

516
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,880
the pieces of media that we were
talking about specifically like 

517
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,640
Firefly and Cowboy Bebop, which 
are two of the big influences, 

518
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,960
the spaceship is the character, 
like one of the main characters.

519
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,760
But we wanted to add more to 
kind of allow for that. 

520
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,200
So there's three big things in 
the in the book. 

521
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:43,480
The 1st is Josh has made like a 
big pile of spaceships with art 

522
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,320
and law and advertising 
materials and like. 

523
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,120
Job insurance for those to 
exist. 

524
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,520
You kind of flip through and 
pick which one you want to use 

525
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,080
for your party. 
The second thing is the thing 

526
00:29:55,080 --> 00:30:00,200
I've been writing, which is like
a expanded set of GMs, advice 

527
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,240
bits, character creation tables,
and well, building bits to kind 

528
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,160
of make space travel something 
which is easier to GM. 

529
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,560
So that the spaceship is like a 
place where adventure happens 

530
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,760
rather or a vehicle rather than 
just like. 

531
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,680
Here's how I get from point A to
point B. 

532
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,480
And then the third thing we've 
been working on is Sam's made 

533
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,280
this huge, amazing orbital Blues
adventure called Redshift 

534
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,600
Riders. 
And do you want to talk about 

535
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:27,280
Sam? 
It's too big. 

536
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:35,520
So I really enjoyed writing the 
Solar System which was it's like

537
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,720
a sandbox adventure that's in 
the back of the core book, My 

538
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,080
First Dungeon are working their 
way around it right now over on 

539
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:48,000
that stream of all Bill Blues. 
He was like quite well praised 

540
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,520
by people when it came out as 
feeling like very alive and a 

541
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:59,280
good place to set adventures. 
And so I said hey I'll I'll do 

542
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,320
more of that because there was a
lot of things that I I had to 

543
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,120
cut from that due to the space. 
It was just like proper back 

544
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,480
back filling the the back end of
the book. 

545
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:16,120
And so I said let's do so let's 
do an advent, A sandbox that 

546
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:21,240
supports all the things from 
like the other parts that that 

547
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,240
you guys are doing. 
So the adventure introduces the 

548
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:30,680
concept of Vankya gates which 
are which answers the the the 

549
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,400
eternal question of how does 
faster than light travel work 

550
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,880
over long distances in all or 
Blues To which we all had 

551
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,720
different thoughts on as create 
as like the three like members 

552
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,880
of the team mine being I don't 
care Josh is being I like old 

553
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,600
fashioned space travel and 
Zach's being I like hard sci-fi 

554
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,160
space travel and I want to know 
how it works and seen as we had 

555
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:04,120
that that that trifecta of 
opinions it it was like well if 

556
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,480
we have those different opinions
then all the various GMs and 

557
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,880
storytellers out there are 
definitely going to want 

558
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:16,560
different ways to do it so have 
at it and Zach has taken a real 

559
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,960
swing at all the different ways 
to break down space travel So 

560
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,960
like Zach if you want to go into
your greebly's and your your 

561
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,280
techno bubble. 
Essentially like the the thing 

562
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,960
for me is that like. 
I've run a lot of of boosts. 

563
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,880
The game came out and I've 
played a lot of it and I've 

564
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,880
developed my own Canon as to how
figures exist in certain ways. 

565
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,560
Which is not something that we 
dress at all in the core book, 

566
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,120
right? 
It's entirely vibes. 

567
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,680
And the figures is that my 
version of Orbit the Blues has a

568
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,360
completely different meta 
narrative to what Sam's does and

569
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,000
as a different ones to what Josh
has because it's very much a 

570
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,280
game owned by three people over 
different times, right? 

571
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,360
That we've smushed together and.
It didn't feel right for us to 

572
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,600
like tell people how to use 
space travel and a certain 

573
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,040
thing. 
Especially because like, this is

574
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,520
a genre emulation game and 
different genres of sub genres 

575
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,120
of space, Western, sub opera. 
Wait, you know what I mean? 

576
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,680
Space Western space operas 
exist, right? 

577
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,720
So essentially what we've done 
in the book is presented a 

578
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,640
couple of different ways that a 
few different things could work,

579
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,040
and explained what the impact on
your campaign would be if FTL 

580
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,040
travel doesn't exist Or you can 
go from anywhere in the universe

581
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,600
to anywhere else, like Snap Star
Wars style or if we're playing 

582
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,880
Mass Effect or Bebop and. 
There are these ways that space 

583
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,840
travel happens on space 
highways, right? 

584
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,280
And basically like explaining 
the impact that would have on 

585
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,040
your game. 
And also the the hot, the all of

586
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,720
the Blues I run is really hard 
sci-fi because it's the kind of 

587
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,160
thing that my players enjoy. 
And there's been this sort of 

588
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,120
fun experience to me where like,
Sam and I are both the kind of 

589
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,120
people that have played a lot of
dungeon crawling games. 

590
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,880
So, like, even though my body 
would fail me immediately, I'm 

591
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,120
pretty sure that if you put me 
in a dungeon in a perfect human 

592
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,239
being, I'd be pretty good at it.
Because I know how all the 

593
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,880
things and all the levers work, 
You know, I know you're going to

594
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,000
apply pickaxe pick doors, do 
this, shove things down pit 

595
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,960
traps. 
Like I've learned how to do it 

596
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,480
because I've spent a lot of time
doing it. 

597
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,760
Because the things that happen 
in a dungeon closely relate to, 

598
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,560
like what it's like in a real 
world. 

599
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:34,280
Because a dungeon. 
If you pledge more to the Orbo 

600
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,360
Blues Kickstarter, we will 
engineer a real life dungeon for

601
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,400
Zach to try and navigate. 
And if he dies, they die. 

602
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,560
He says one of those like the 
the camera structures, yes, So 

603
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,960
we can like watch him the whole 
time or live stream. 

604
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,280
Or live stream the dungeon 
you're. 

605
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,639
Ready here folks, $1,000,000 A. 
Kickstarter, right? 

606
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,320
I'm not an astronaut. 
I could be a dungeon more to the

607
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,880
Blues. 
King style will put Zack through

608
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,280
astronauts scores. 
The. 

609
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,240
Thing is, is that I have gone 
through astronauts school, Sam 

610
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,200
by playing so much orbital Blues
and in all these games 

611
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:10,720
definitely I've learned to 
understand. 

612
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,360
I've built an internally 
consistent model of how I think 

613
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,280
a spaceship works that will not 
held up to any type of rigorous 

614
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,720
scrutiny. 
But you start to let you learn 

615
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:21,600
to start thinking portals and 
then like at that point 

616
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,480
possibility appears and plans 
start to make sense once you. 

617
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,120
And so there's like A and other 
people want to read about those 

618
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,240
plans because they'll come to us
and be like how does this thing 

619
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:37,560
work? 
And I'm like, wow, no space 

620
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,840
magic. 
Comes out of it. 

621
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:45,840
It's an engine, but there's all 
kinds of like advice for running

622
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:48,440
games and how we come up 
content, how things are 

623
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,160
generated, like just filling out
the advice in the core book. 

624
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:56,120
And it's going to be a really 
good tool that's going to be 

625
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:57,880
like that. 
If you get one other book 

626
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,280
alongside all the foods, this is
the one we want you to get. 

627
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,400
And alongside that, obviously 
we're doing. 

628
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,480
Cassettes and VHS, Adventure Box
sets, script capable of all 

629
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,160
these things. 
And then, you know, reprinting 

630
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,880
the GM screens and the art books
and you'll be able to get every 

631
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,800
single other conceivable thing 
under the sun. 

632
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,280
Because it's a Kickstarter and 
people love the things. 

633
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,040
They do love the things. 
I don't know if you've ever 

634
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,400
talked to Ryan before. 
But people and I like a thing or

635
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,760
two might have. 
One or two of the things I I I 

636
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,600
get so many things that I often 
end up with double S and then I 

637
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,560
just send them to him. 
So I'm not going to lie, the alt

638
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,120
cover of the original book 
definitely was a thing that I 

639
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,360
had to have. 
So it's definitely in in in my 

640
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,760
in my pledge. 
Yeah, Oval Blues cassette as 

641
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,720
demonstrated here re re up 
available on the current 

642
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:53,800
Kickstarter. 
Get yourself a cassette. 

643
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,400
That's right, grabbing. 
Hold on all your cassette 

644
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,800
playing needs. 
We've all got to grab our 

645
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:00,880
cassettes. 
Go up this. 

646
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,480
Is our cassettes. 
So I never get to me the start, 

647
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,920
yeah. 
In the little bag they came in. 

648
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,240
Have they been rolled? 
Who knows? 

649
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,440
They have not been rolled like. 
I have so many bags of dice on 

650
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,000
this shelf. 
Another single one of them has 

651
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,920
been rolled. 
Because I've intended a real 

652
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,640
time thing in three years, 
because that is being done in 

653
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,040
like a plastic case with a. 
Slightly different one. 

654
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,000
It's going to be like AJ fold 
thing just. 

655
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,920
Because. 
Turns out the rave boxes are 

656
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,520
really expensive and this thing 
called inflation has happened. 

657
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:30,840
So we've shifted. 
That's that's. 

658
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,040
Just a myth. 
But if we. 

659
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,160
Yeah. 
No, no, no. 

660
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,640
If we I've. 
Got to announce something I'm 

661
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,640
definitely not allowed to 
announce because we haven't 

662
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,000
spoke Josh Bay yet. 
So you know what? 

663
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,200
Let's do that. 
Don't do that. 

664
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,440
Yeah, perfect. 
Hey, well maybe we'll get to the

665
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,160
end and you'll just announce it 
anyway. 

666
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,240
Aside from this cassette I know 
you we you just hit. 

667
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,280
Was it the stretch goal to get 
is it behold to do another 

668
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,320
cassette Because they did the 
music for the My First Dungeon 

669
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,520
podcast said just recently. 
We're still in the process of 

670
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,760
doing or dropping out the 
Orbital Blues AP that they're 

671
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,640
doing right. 
Yeah, yeah. 

672
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,000
So we've been doing a bunch of 
sponsored actual plays, working 

673
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,560
with a couple of different 
outfits. 

674
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,600
We're working with Trans 
planers, Stella Luna, Girls 

675
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,600
Around These Worlds, Boys from 
the Baltic Star. 

676
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,560
We've tried to do it. 
Each person has been given a 

677
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,840
different adventure from this, 
but Brian from my first dungeon 

678
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:29,680
got in touch and I'm a big fan 
of Brian's work from the big Die

679
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,360
Die RPG thing they did. 
I worked a lot on Die as part of

680
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:39,680
Roman Rick and Deckard and. 
He wanted to do a stream and 

681
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,960
said hey, we'll do a stream, we 
want to do this, We'll we'll get

682
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,080
all these people in. 
And obviously because we're 

683
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:46,880
sponsored, we're able to pay 
these people really well, which 

684
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,680
really good. 
And then Brian said, Oh yeah, 

685
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,200
also my music guy will be doing 
a bunch of music for it. 

686
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:55,840
So I'll make sure I send that to
you before you do that. 

687
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,280
And like I'm such a, I'm such a 
glutton for punishment when it 

688
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,360
comes to bad financial impulse 
control. 

689
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,480
And I was like, they're going to
be doing music. 

690
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,000
Why don't we just print it and 
put it on a cassette and we'll 

691
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,600
give them money if they're doing
the music anyway, let's make it 

692
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,480
happen. 
So there's now another AP from 

693
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,720
the music from the My First 
Dungeon actual play, which you 

694
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:18,000
should all go watch because it's
fantastic and it goes through 

695
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,200
Sam's very excellent Start the 
System adventure in a super 

696
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,880
interesting way and like it. 
I don't normally listen to a lot

697
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,160
of APS, but this is like a 
really high production value one

698
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,080
with like good interesting 
characters and like I 

699
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,600
increasingly think. 
Although I'm obviously very 

700
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,400
biased, the Orbital Blues is an 
incredibly good game to play 

701
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:43,360
actual playoff because the vibes
are very strong, the characters 

702
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,560
jump out of the page very 
quickly and troubles are like a 

703
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,160
really easy way of generating 
lots of emotional moments, like 

704
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,280
I was talking about earlier. 
So like, yeah, it's been really 

705
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,600
good and we've got a set and I 
think there's probably going to 

706
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,880
be a third one if we can, you 
know, hit that stretch goal in a

707
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:01,480
couple of days. 
So we'll see. 

708
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,400
We've got Christmas at coming 
back and they're going to be 

709
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,120
doing some jazz and I love 
watching jazz. 

710
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,280
Love some sad jazz? 
Love some sad jazz? 

711
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,240
I mean, there's still almost two
weeks left in the campaign. 

712
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:17,960
Plenty of time. 
I we just hit the halfway market

713
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,480
at 75. 
USBI. 

714
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,040
Don't know what that is in it's 
just over 60,000 pounds. 

715
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:31,560
£61,000, yeah, there we go. 
Try not to look at the number 

716
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,760
too much during crowdfunding 
projects because it kind of, 

717
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,240
it's very easy to have yourself 
worth be replaced by that little

718
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:39,240
number of dollars. 
And actually the thing that we 

719
00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:41,280
should be proud of is that we've
made a really fantastic piece of

720
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,480
art and that loads of other 
people are going to get to enjoy

721
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,000
it, so. 
Yes. 

722
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,040
I know it's. 
Like kick stars in the past, 

723
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,480
I'll watch the number go up by 
like several thousand, and then 

724
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:56,400
I'll see it go down by like. £80
and it's that like 80 pounds 

725
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,120
that I'll fixate on and be like,
why did that? 

726
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:03,320
Per Why? 
Like not counting all the times 

727
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,760
that I've ever backed out of a 
Kickstarter or a crowd from for 

728
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,960
whatever reason, I'll just like,
what did that person see or read

729
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,920
that made them drop their 
pledge? 

730
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,800
Why would they do that? 
And I start obsessing over it. 

731
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,360
So I've just made it so that I 
don't look at things like that. 

732
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:22,760
And just want to have a 
question. 

733
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,920
I'll answer it. 
But I'll I'll just like my nan 

734
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,800
calls me up and she looks at it 
and she'll be like, oh it's it's

735
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,000
on like 50,000 now. 
It's doing so well. 

736
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,960
And I'm like, thanks Nan, I am 
trying to avoid looking at the 

737
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,200
amount of money that it's on. 
But thank you. 

738
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,800
Yeah, it's easy to get called. 
Dad also asks me about it all 

739
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,960
the time. 
He wants to see the advertising,

740
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,600
the kind of guy he is. 
He wants to see the backer kit, 

741
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,280
advertising dashboard. 
And I'm like, no, I'm not 

742
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,200
sending you that. 
Dad, go away. 

743
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:04,240
I'll say I've backed over. 
Too many projects I've had, I've

744
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:06,680
only had two people actually 
message me and be like, hey, why

745
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,400
did you unback our project at 
both times? 

746
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:09,760
I'll be like, that's a weird 
question. 

747
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,520
You probably shouldn't message 
people and ask that. 

748
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,840
So yeah, yeah. 
Don't ask, don't do that. 

749
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,800
And I know not to ask and I 
never would. 

750
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:22,960
But it's the it's the what if 
the the just that, that torment.

751
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,320
It keeps me. 
It plagues me. 

752
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,120
Yeah, we are also people with 
our own troubles, you know? 

753
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:34,320
Listen, guys. 
That there's a reason that the 

754
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,360
Sad Space Cowboy game is is very
much like real life, Aside from 

755
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,440
the spaceships. 
That is where we're at right 

756
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,920
now. 
So specifically this project 

757
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,680
Afterburn, besides the book. 
I know we touched on some of the

758
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,800
stuff, but what exactly are 
people able to get with this 

759
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,880
besides everything? 
Pretty much from the first one, 

760
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:55,840
except maybe not the dice. 
I'm not sure about that, but 

761
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,840
it's pretty much everything from
the first one, plus a new alt 

762
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,920
cover for the book. 
And then what exactly can 

763
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,840
everyone expect? 
Like specifically. 

764
00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:08,760
Oh yeah, so it's the there's a 
this new core book which is the 

765
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,120
kind of the compilation of all 
the things that we think you 

766
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,360
should have if you bought Orbit 
the Blues but kind of wanted a 

767
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,640
little bit more. 
That's called Afterburn and it's

768
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,640
like a 200 page ish hardcover, 
roughly the same size as you as 

769
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,760
the original book. 
You can also grab Rogue Anthems,

770
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,280
which is our VHS Box Adventure 
Pamphlet collection. 

771
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,760
And then you can also grab Tales
from the Outlaw Galaxy, which is

772
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,680
a slip case compendium of all 
the soft cover adventures. 

773
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,560
We've been releasing our stretch
goals for the first game, so 

774
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,200
across five different adventures
with five different writers. 

775
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:49,120
There are almost 300 pages of 
adventuring content available, 

776
00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:51,880
all illustrated lovingly by 
Josh. 

777
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,080
There's a new old cover of the 
core book you can get if you're 

778
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,680
a collectionist and you fancy 
grabbing. 

779
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,560
What we're referring to 
affectionately is the rainbow 

780
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,640
cover. 
Then there is the reprint of the

781
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,400
old cassette. 
There is a reprint. 

782
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,960
There is a print of the new 
cassette, which is Behold 1, the

783
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:12,000
soundtrack for my first dungeon.
Then there is also the GM screen

784
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,680
you can grab, and the wayward 
stars are, but we were talking 

785
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,040
about from earlier, as well as 
obviously reprint of the core 

786
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,320
book from the last game with the
original cover that you all know

787
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,680
and love. 
And I think that's everything. 

788
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,840
There's a lot of bits, but we've
done a lot of the work already. 

789
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,600
All the manuscripts are 
finalised, the art is all done. 

790
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,440
Like it's the case of doing some
layout and then finding someone 

791
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,720
stupid enough to sell me 1000 
VHS boxes, you know? 

792
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,960
But I mean, sorry, I've already 
found them people. 

793
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,640
It's just, you know, doing the 
final bit. 

794
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,680
I'm not going to And there's no 
all the rabid product sourcing 

795
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,360
has already happened. 
Don't worry everyone, but it's 

796
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:56,080
still a a challenge to get all 
those gubbins and get everything

797
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,040
to print. 
So for the most part, once this 

798
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,680
ends, the hardest part of the 
part that's going to take the 

799
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,280
longest pretty much is getting 
all of these moving parts 

800
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,480
together and actually getting it
in one spot to send to people, 

801
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,200
right? 
Like that's what's going to be 

802
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,880
holding up most of anything. 
There's a lot of layout left, 

803
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,520
but obviously I have bits of 
editing, but it's mainly the the

804
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,640
production stuff is the 
difficult bit for this, 

805
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,080
especially in your kind of, you 
know, but it's the kind of thing

806
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,600
that SOMOP has done on the last 
12 projects it's involved in 

807
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,160
before. 
And you know the dozen books 

808
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,120
I've made for our ID over the 
last two years that we've got a 

809
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,800
lot of experience and trust in. 
And we have trusted partners and

810
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,560
everything will happen in the 
right order at the time that 

811
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,080
backers should be able to access
it with hopefully as little 

812
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:46,640
delay as possible. 
So this is the first big 

813
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,640
expansion for Orbital Blues. 
I know that you're in the in the

814
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,280
deep part of it right now, but 
is there a little part of the 

815
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,200
back of your brain that's got 
this second expansion already 

816
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,720
brewing at all, or is it going 
to be a little break between now

817
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:08,400
and and more Orbital Blues? 
I I think you'll be a break. 

818
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,920
I think. 
I think Zach has another project

819
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:17,920
after. 
And I am really like wringing my

820
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,520
brain out now because it was all
well and good filling the solar 

821
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:27,480
system, which was I think 3, 
three or four like major locales

822
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,960
with enough life to make it feel
alive. 

823
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:38,200
But right now I'm doing a system
with four planets and a space 

824
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:45,200
station, and filling that is. 
Is is taxing? 

825
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,120
I don't know that many people 
and I certainly don't know that 

826
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:54,640
many people to to base 
adventures and quests and 

827
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,600
experiences on and I'm really 
like trying to get in touch 

828
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,800
with. 
This this sounds so pretentious.

829
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:08,640
The human condition and what 
fills those spaces in ways that 

830
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:16,280
are meaningful and make 4 good 
quests in the the traditional 

831
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,720
RPG sense? 
Why would this person come to a 

832
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,240
band of interstellar outlaws and
be like hey? 

833
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,880
I I need your help with this. 
There's and there's some that 

834
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,200
are like real strong in the 
manuscripts at the minute, and 

835
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,280
then others that I'm like, this 
needs to I need to up my game 

836
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,280
and I'm having like major like 
anxiety over it. 

837
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,640
Two of my favorite quests, My 
two favorite things I've written

838
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:49,640
so far are one where a famous 
film actor wants you to help him

839
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,120
fake his own death. 
And you will have to. 

840
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:58,760
Like help with that. 
And then the second one is a 

841
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,920
documentary filmmaker who wants 
to join your crew and ask your 

842
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,680
crew a lot of like personal 
questions and ask why are you 

843
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,240
doing this instead of a real 
job. 

844
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,720
And they're they're two things 
that I think a lot of people 

845
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:18,400
will approach differently and a 
lot of people will will like it 

846
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,880
will change up their games and 
definitely have like an 

847
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:27,160
impactful sort of. 
Thing to to like make crew crews

848
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,720
and outlaws question themselves 
and one another and how they go 

849
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:34,760
about things. 
As for a whole other a whole 

850
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:41,840
other new book, give us some 
time. 

851
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,960
I can do mine. 
I've got two things I've wanted 

852
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,960
to write, but I've been too busy
to write around other things. 

853
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:53,480
My brain wants to make solo 
orbital Blues by standing out 

854
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,200
the amount of technology on a 
trouble so that you could use it

855
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,040
to generate more stuff than you 
would otherwise. 

856
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,920
I think that's something that 
there's probably some legs on. 

857
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:09,880
And I also want to write a like 
very jazzy old school noir 

858
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:15,000
murder mystery adventure that 
uses orbital Blues and kind of 

859
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,680
takes in a different direction. 
But those are like, this isn't 

860
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,160
like and this will be coming out
in 2024. 

861
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,920
Like, these are like me thinking
about things I'd like to write 

862
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,480
in the system in the future. 
But you know it's going to be a 

863
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,080
while. 
Like the way these things work 

864
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,080
is it's going to take us, 
probably it's going to take us 

865
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,800
six months to make everything 
anyway and then work. 

866
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,360
The next steps will be we want 
to break after that, because I 

867
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,680
won't want to think about any 
more space Cowboys for about a 

868
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,040
year and then maybe 25 or 
something. 

869
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,400
You'll see some more stuff from 
as it's gone up it about more 

870
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,720
orbit, the Blues, I hope, but 
it's certainly there's demand 

871
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:48,320
for IT. 
People seem really excited, so 

872
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,920
I'm keen to make more things. 
It's just like crowdfunding, 

873
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:57,160
Tampo is really difficult. 
And we're also like, we're also 

874
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,120
really excited and eager to see 
what other people do with it. 

875
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:05,720
Because ultimately this is 
something that what that had its

876
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:11,560
genesis very much in a bubble in
like my bedroom, not this one. 

877
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:12,600
I lived in knowing him at the 
time. 

878
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,840
I live somewhere else now in an 
undisclosed location. 

879
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,640
Like it was something that was, 
it was something that was made 

880
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,680
in our bedrooms, in. 
Local pub. 

881
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,760
It was something that was very, 
it felt very personal to to all 

882
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:35,320
of us. 
And it was something that we we 

883
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,160
very much didn't have a great 
deal of our external feedback on

884
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,400
when we were making it. 
And then it launched and people 

885
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,920
really liked it. 
And people have since, you know,

886
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,360
all still really like it. 
And so it's always. 

887
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,520
Crazy having people come up and 
be like, oh, this thing happened

888
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:54,080
in in our game, this thing 
happened in in my game or when 

889
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:55,360
we run it. 
We did this. 

890
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,880
And it's always really exciting 
to see what people do with it 

891
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:03,440
and what people harness the book
for in terms of what kind of 

892
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,440
stories they want to tell and if
they want to write their own 

893
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:12,320
adventures. 
I love editing and reading the 

894
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:16,840
adventures that we get because. 
I haven't yet come across one of

895
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,400
them where I've thought, oh, I 
could have thought of that like 

896
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,040
they've all been completely 
different. 

897
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:27,640
They've all been from a range of
talented writers, from a diverse

898
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,600
array of backgrounds that have 
told stories that I couldn't 

899
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,040
have written, Zach couldn't have
written. 

900
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,240
Every single one of them so far 
that we've that we've published 

901
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:42,200
has been been really unique. 
And not things that I personally

902
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:46,240
thought I I didn't think of them
when I was writing it well. 

903
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:47,560
What are your thoughts on that, 
Zack? 

904
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,920
Yeah, I mean ultimately like the
the ultimate purpose of any RPG 

905
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,800
product as much as we talk about
like coffee table books or vibes

906
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,120
things or smart mechanics is for
like things to see use of the 

907
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:00,320
table like that's what it's for.
It's. 

908
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,600
All a front to make cassettes. 
Yeah, it's all the front to make

909
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,240
cassettes so I can switch into 
my career as a music producer. 

910
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,840
But seriously, it is all about 
like how the thing finds life at

911
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,520
the table and what use people 
get out of it. 

912
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:13,920
And obviously seeing people do 
these things about these 

913
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:15,720
adventures and have these 
stories with the thing that we 

914
00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:17,480
came up with is always 
wonderful. 

915
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:22,480
But, and the other thing is that
Orbital Blues has in it a very 

916
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:24,960
explicit, very big third party 
licence. 

917
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,480
And we've seen stuff written by 
people for like Josh, who's 

918
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,080
running for you guys tomorrow on
the stream. 

919
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:34,520
They've written Orbital Blues 
Adventure. 

920
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,600
That was really good. 
I forgot the name of it because 

921
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,320
I'm on the spot. 
But you know, it's exciting 

922
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:41,960
seeing people also publish that 
stuff. 

923
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,280
So what I'd really like is to 
see like more third party 

924
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,920
published stuff appear. 
That'll be my personal dream as 

925
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,480
a publisher, you know, having 
an. 

926
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,400
Orbital Blues Itch GM Anytime 
soon. 

927
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,520
Maybe we did want troubles last 
year, but I guess we'll have to 

928
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,960
do another one soon. 
I'm just yeah, I'm so busy. 

929
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,080
Like running an itch jab. 
Like, if anyone wants to run an 

930
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,800
Orbital Blues Itch jam, e-mail 
me and then I'll I'll give you 

931
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:05,400
whatever you'll delegate. 
That down. 

932
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,400
I mean, you not only do you have
orbital Blues going right now, 

933
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,000
you still have inevitable going 
on. 

934
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,440
I don't know how much you do 
with Rowan Rook and Decker, but 

935
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,440
they have Etho Wright going on 
right now as well too. 

936
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,080
So I feel like you have lots of 
hands in a lots of different 

937
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,480
pots right now and maybe just a 
couple of things to do, you 

938
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,960
know, you you too many. 
Yeah. 

939
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,200
And that's before I've even 
announced anything that's 

940
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,320
happening next year that's 
currently being worked on 

941
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,800
frenziedly. 
But yeah, more, more games will 

942
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:34,280
be coming in the future from us,
and also of all kinds, and 

943
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,160
they're getting out this array 
of all the blue stuff that 

944
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:40,400
people seem to be evidently so 
excited for because of the 

945
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,760
Kickstarter is so brilliant, and
I can't wait to see people play 

946
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,800
more things and get excited 
about the South Space Cowboys. 

947
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,480
Yeah, I yeah, very excited for 
this Kickstarter. 

948
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,120
I was. 
I can't tell you how excited I 

949
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:55,000
was to see when it dropped, see 
that Rainbow cover to go with 

950
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,360
the night cover as well. 
And as you said, we're going to 

951
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,680
be playing tomorrow with myself,
with Hunter here, with Josh and 

952
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:02,360
with Marco Serrano, with Spicy 
Tuna. 

953
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,520
I'm very excited to see him in a
different space. 

954
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,600
He's a very mother shit person. 
It'll be interesting to see him 

955
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:11,640
doing a little bit of orbital 
Blues as well and I know on your

956
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,400
on the Kickstarter page, which 
is fantastic, definitely go 

957
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,720
check that out. 
If you were listening to us, 

958
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:23,520
there is, as you said before, a 
whole list of other places to go

959
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,600
watch APS and stuff. 
My first Dungeon Girls Around 

960
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:28,160
These World's Cello, Luna Boys 
and both Skin Transplanter. 

961
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,120
A lot of really amazing stuff to
go check out. 

962
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:31,480
A lot of really great content 
and. 

963
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,320
It's awesome that you guys are 
reprinting everything from the 

964
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,520
original one for the most part, 
because if all those people that

965
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,720
might be fans now that didn't 
get those original books, you're

966
00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:42,000
able to get those now. 
So definitely go check out the 

967
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,360
Kickstarter that's right now. 
If you're listening to this or 

968
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,360
watching this in YouTube in the 
next year or two, the links to 

969
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,200
all of that will be in the 
description below. 

970
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:55,520
But for both of you, where can 
people find any of your personal

971
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,440
stuff or other stuff besides 
this specific Kickstarter Sam? 

972
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:06,320
As as I've said before, not 
super online, but at Sam Sleny 

973
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:11,160
on Twitter, slash X, and I think
it's the same on Instagram as 

974
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:16,400
well. 
Zach is so busy at the minute 

975
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:25,240
that if you want me to write for
you, I can because, well, 

976
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,680
there's just. 
Too many fingers and too many 

977
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:35,040
pies as as they said. 
So yeah, I have ideas who up 

978
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,040
publishing their games is, is 
what I would say. 

979
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:45,160
And yeah, at Sam Sleny SLENEY, 
Yeah, my name is Zach. 

980
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:47,640
I go by Jelly. 
I'm the Jelly Muppet on most 

981
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:52,160
social medias. 
You can find us on Soul Muppet 

982
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:56,240
Hyphen store.co.uk is the place 
to buy all of the amazing RPGs 

983
00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:59,040
that Soul Muppet makes. 
All of the Blues is just one of 

984
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:00,680
them. 
We've also talked about Best of 

985
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:02,200
Buried. 
I've also been on the podcast 

986
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,920
before talking about Inevitable.
You can find character Titan 

987
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:06,760
City. 
You can find other stuff that 

988
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,880
Sam has written as well like 
Beneath the Basic Sea and that 

989
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,120
has links to all the places you 
can find us. 

990
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,600
Because I have a marketing 
person now whose job it is to 

991
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:19,280
run accounts on Tumblr and 
Instagram and Facebook and 

992
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,880
there's a Discord server and a 
mailing list and right there's a

993
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:23,720
whole well oiled marketing 
machine. 

994
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:26,600
That mall are conventions and 
operation. 

995
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,720
Sorry conventions and marketing 
person is responsible for making

996
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:34,160
occur. 
I also work at Roanoke and 

997
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,840
Deckard where you can find 
amazing games such as Die Heart 

998
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,320
Spire and the new The right. 
I would encourage you to go over

999
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,240
there and check out my role 
there as a producer as well. 

1000
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:49,920
And but yeah, the main place to 
find us is the sole Muppet store

1001
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,920
and if you search the name of 
any of these games in we do 

1002
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,480
pretty well in SEO. 
So go from there. 

1003
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:57,840
Yeah, look at look at that 
spiel. 

1004
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,120
I don't have a social media and 
marketing manager. 

1005
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,560
I just have my girlfriend being 
who, who is a content creator, 

1006
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:05,160
being like you need to be on the
Internet more. 

1007
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,240
And I'm just like no. 
No. 

1008
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,160
Well, if I could make I I don't 
know. 

1009
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,320
It's it's been a you you got to 
do it. 

1010
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,440
The main reason I have that 
person is because I hate it 

1011
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:21,040
almost as much as you do. 
But it's just a case of needing 

1012
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:25,400
to run a publishing company. 
My job now somehow. 

1013
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,640
Well, Congrats on your success. 
Congrats on success of the 

1014
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,720
Kickstarter. 
We're obviously, I mean, we're 

1015
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:37,200
big fans and we're super stoked 
to get everything in hand and 

1016
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:43,080
this looks cool and. 
Sad and all the space cowboy VHS

1017
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,640
throwback tech of the future 
that we have come to expect. 

1018
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,720
From over the Blues, it's not 
it's not too sad. 

1019
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,720
It is exciting as well. 
It's not a book that's going to 

1020
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:54,680
make you cry. 
It's you've not been to my 

1021
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,280
table. 
My table's sad enough, don't 

1022
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:57,160
worry. 
It's OK. 

1023
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,120
That's fine. 
Yeah, it's. 

1024
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,320
Also got all the really tight 
stuff in it, kind of. 

1025
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:02,640
All really interesting stuff in 
it. 

1026
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,880
It's not just all sad sometimes.
I did feel when we were at Comic

1027
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,120
Con, people would come over and 
be like. 

1028
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,000
Why are the why are the space 
Cowboys sad? 

1029
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:14,600
Like can we cheer them up? 
And we just like, it's it's just

1030
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:16,080
a tagline. 
Don't worry about it. 

1031
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:17,320
They don't always have to be 
sad. 

1032
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:20,520
You can do exciting things with 
them too. 

1033
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:25,520
So yeah, it's got a lot of cool 
stuff in it to enrich your games

1034
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,440
and your stories. 
Yeah, an afterblind will 

1035
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,400
certainly help the Cowboys being
happy. 

1036
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,280
Yes. 
Seriously, can't, can't wait for

1037
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,040
it to come. 
Thank you again, Zach. 

1038
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:38,360
Thank you so much for coming on 
the show again. 

1039
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,560
Sam, been a pleasure talking 
with you as well. 

1040
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:44,160
Always invited back, very 
excited for you guys and the 

1041
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,880
success that Afterburn is having
right now and can't wait for 

1042
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:48,080
more. 
So we'll muppet stuff. 

1043
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:49,560
Really appreciate you guys 
coming on. 

1044
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:51,400
No worries. 
Thank you. 

1045
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:53,840
Thank you for having us. 
I always enjoyed doing this and 

1046
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,920
making Allowed to ramble for 
like half a great. 

1047
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:59,200
Yeah, you got We just let you 
guys go off. 

1048
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:00,880
I'm like, oh, this is very the 
best guy interview. 

1049
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:01,920
It's the. 
Easiest. 

1050
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:04,040
Interview. 
Ever. 

1051
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:05,480
Yeah. 
So. 

1052
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,040
Yeah, so we are the weekly 
squirrel podcast. 

1053
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,240
You can find all of our stuff at
our link tree, which is just 

1054
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,240
slash. 
The weekly squirrel links to all

1055
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,400
of this, like I said, will be in
everywhere and that's it. 

1056
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,680
That's our show. 
We'll go back after burn on 

1057
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,400
Kickstarter right now, get all 
the old orbital Blues if you 

1058
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,400
don't have it, and definitely 
grab all that new stuff. 

1059
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:24,880
Everyone out there have a 
wonderful night and again, thank

1060
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:27,360
you guys for being here. 
Play Orbital Blues. 

1061
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,640
So we can build a dungeon and 
put Zack in it and see if he 

1062
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,080
Zacks. 
Zacks is is as good as their 

1063
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:39,800
word and can escape a dungeon 
because they've played in a lot 

1064
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:41,440
of them. 
I've done it. 

1065
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,920
Yeah, escape rooms like that. 
Hard right? 

1066
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:45,000
Thanks guys. 
No, no. 

1067
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,720
I'm talking stones. 
I'm talking cages. 

1068
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:50,200
I'm talking chains. 
Goblins. 

1069
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,120
Bye, bye. 
Bye, everybody. 

1070
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:53,440
Have a good day. 
Goodbye.