1 00:00:15,220 --> 00:00:17,300 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll Podcast. 2 00:00:17,300 --> 00:00:20,860 My name is Ryan. And I made a pact with a fear 3 00:00:20,860 --> 00:00:23,580 demon and everyone keeps figuring out what I'm afraid of. 4 00:00:25,140 --> 00:00:27,980 And, and today we are joined by a very special guest that is 5 00:00:27,980 --> 00:00:29,300 Kobayashi. How you doing this morning, 6 00:00:29,300 --> 00:00:32,619 Kobayashi? Fine, fine, thank you for having 7 00:00:32,619 --> 00:00:33,840 me. Yeah. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:42,160 Yeah, I think what before before we immediately tangent because 9 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:43,760 we've all been talking about how much we're going to. 10 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:48,520 So it is inevitable for those that might not know Kobayashi 11 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,440 who who, who the heck are you? What might people know you for 12 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,520 in in the space? I think I'm mostly known for the 13 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,000 black sword act. I think I can can make a T-shirt 14 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,320 that is a black sword act guy basically because. 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,440 Yeah, a few people know me before that for Flail, but 16 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:12,880 basically I, yeah, I write and design in the in the RPGs for 17 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,840 well, quite, quite a number of years now. 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:24,000 And as any, let's say in the RPG designer, it's I'm like a Pang 19 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,040 band. I'm known by over Pang bands, 20 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,560 but not by most of the audience in fact. 21 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,160 That's right. Yeah, Yeah, I mean, we Hunter, 22 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,000 I'm this is something we should have done a while ago. 23 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:42,760 I don't know what episode we did Flayo in, but we we are we are 24 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,240 one of the people that knew Flayo before Black Sword Hack. 25 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:49,200 We reviewed that a long time, I think years ago at this point. 26 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,560 It was super fun. I mean, for anyone that likes a 27 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,560 black sword hack, if you haven't also read Flayo, you're 28 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,080 definitely missing out. There's so much a little bit of 29 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,480 crossover in it and so much fun stuff in Flayo. 30 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,400 But you know, but yes. Episode 30 was Flayo. 31 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:12,120 Episode 30 is crazy. This is episode 277. 32 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,320 So that's crazy that it was that it was that long ago black. 33 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:22,000 Sword hack was 90 so I think, I mean we did Flayo like fairly 34 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,800 early because we backed the Kickstarter, so got it off 35 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,000 Kickstarter. I think the same with the Black 36 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:33,840 sword hack. So what I guess getting right 37 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:39,560 into it, what kind of got you into teach RPGs? 38 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,120 And then I guess to to Flayo prior to to the black sword 39 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,720 hack, which again I mean every everyone in the space knows 40 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,600 black sword hack. I think like most game 41 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,360 designers, I think I've started, it's at what moment you want. 42 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:59,280 You want to play a game and you go to a store and you go online 43 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,080 and you realize that the game you want to play that doesn't 44 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:08,000 exist and you're just OK, so I have to write my own now. 45 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,520 That's a bummer. And I write one game when I 46 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,840 would like to, you know, play this. 47 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:17,360 And you write a second game and a third game. 48 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,640 And sometimes people come along and say, hey, I'd like to play 49 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:23,280 that as well. And you and you kind of, OK, 50 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,480 maybe there is a room for me on this market. 51 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,640 That's how it goes. And mostly, yes. 52 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,600 But the base is I want to write a game that I want to play with 53 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,080 my friends. That's the only thing that got 54 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,680 me going. There you go. 55 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,920 And then black sword hack was put out with the the Mary 56 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,920 Mushman who people know for the black sword hack, but also knock 57 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,920 knock 5 actually just got my knock 5 recently as well as a 58 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:54,520 bunch of other stuff that they're putting out recently. 59 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,680 How did how did that happen? How did you and the Black Sword 60 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,640 Hack kind of get together? Or you and Mary Mushman get 61 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,560 together to put out the the Black Sword Hack? 62 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,080 First of all, yeah, I published Where was the 1st edition of The 63 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:13,520 Black Sword Hack and which surprisingly 2 for me because it 64 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,520 worked very well. The first edition. 65 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:20,040 It was a it's it's still it's a platinum best seller on drive 66 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,400 through RPG. So without without any any ads, 67 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:30,000 social media, whatever. And I've worked with the Mary 68 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:35,200 Mushman on the magazine Knock. I write two articles for them 69 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:37,000 and then one time they send me an e-mail. 70 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,680 Hey, you know what? We've read The Black Sword Act. 71 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,080 We think it's cool. We think it lacks some things. 72 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,560 So would you be interested in doing a new edition? 73 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:53,440 So I hesitated for three seconds and I said yes, yes, of course, 74 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,840 let's do it. Yeah, because they told me and 75 00:04:56,840 --> 00:05:02,400 we got this guy who do, who does art, Gordon Gligovich. 76 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,320 And I said, is going to do the art? 77 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,760 Yes, yes, yes. Let's do the book here. 78 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:10,560 Completely. Definitely. 79 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:17,280 Yeah, I I can't imagine anyones art style fitting that game 80 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:19,400 more. It was such a perfect marriage 81 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:24,920 of of art and layout and design. It's it's it just has everything 82 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:29,760 and it just all parts of it kind of reinforce itself constantly. 83 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,320 And that's that's what we find in in games that are happen to 84 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,640 be our favorites is is that aspect where all of the 85 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,120 different parts of it really sing well together. 86 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,520 And and black sword hack is one of the best that does that. 87 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:48,640 Like, you know, it's very sword and sorcery and what what kind 88 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,640 of drew you to that like genre? Because when I, when I talk 89 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:57,080 about sword and sorcery in especially more current Indy 90 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,720 tabletop role-playing games, I will always hold up the black 91 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,360 sword act as like the example of like what to aim for. 92 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,520 So what? What made you want to do that 93 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,160 kind of game or what? Yeah. 94 00:06:09,280 --> 00:06:12,640 Because first of all, I have a love. 95 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:18,040 We're for the for this job in books, you know, all the books 96 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,960 by Michael Muco, Joe Bercrombie, all that stuff. 97 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,400 Tomorrow goes in by by Mother Salmanson. 98 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:31,280 I really like this stuff. And I always found found out 99 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:36,880 that most sword ancestry games lacked something. 100 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:42,600 Well, it was always always a bit too close to just Dungeons and 101 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,880 Dragons all the way. It's basically yes, you know, 102 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:51,360 we, we, we may think of, you know, illustrations that look 103 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:57,120 with baddies with saucers, but in the rules, nothing changes in 104 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:03,480 fact, and and especially with the magic and sorcery. 105 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:09,200 So what I always say in game design, especially in 106 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,320 role-playing games, but it's in every game design. 107 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,040 You always have to look outside your domain. 108 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:21,880 So when I wanted to make a sword ancestry game, instead of just 109 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,280 reading RPGs in that journal, I went back to the books. 110 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,600 So OK, so how does it work? What kind of stories do we tell? 111 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:36,400 And how can I model that instead of taking a role-playing game 112 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,880 and see how I can model it into the Sword and Sorcery Journal, 113 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,480 if that makes sense? Yeah. 114 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,240 Yeah, absolutely. And I know Hunter, you've, 115 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,080 you've actually run the adventure from the book, even 116 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,560 though the book has a way where you can basically make infinite 117 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,960 adventures, you know, with the, with all the resources in it. 118 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,840 But, and, and we've talked about this before with, with sword and 119 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,400 sorcery and stuff like that. What? 120 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,880 I guess for both of you, you know, Which adventure did you 121 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:05,440 run again? Hunter. 122 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,400 The what's? It's the blood God. 123 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,120 Is it the keep of the blood God? That's what it's called. 124 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:14,640 Blood for the blood God, I think. 125 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,120 Players are the blood God. Yeah, that. 1. 126 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,520 Really great adventure. We had a fun like fortress to go 127 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,000 through that my players got captured in and then had to 128 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,280 break out. It was pretty cool. 129 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,960 And then you have recently been putting out a bunch of projects. 130 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,720 I know we talked about the Four Golem Parade was recently on 131 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,919 Kickstarter and now Fallen Blades in the Starters on 132 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:45,600 Kickstarter. And before that was that one. 133 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,080 Why is my brain breaking? Yeah, since. 134 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,560 It's even in Dying Gods. There we go. 135 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:55,240 And that has all been within like the last six months ish is 136 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,280 that is that how all three of them kind of come out? 137 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:04,680 Yeah, because for now, for some time I, I became RPG designer 138 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:10,520 full time. So when you do, yeah, don't tell 139 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:18,520 that to my banker, but yeah. But so it's, it's a bit easy to 140 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:23,480 wear wear because before that I had a day job because I started 141 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,760 writing role-playing games in 2008. 142 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,800 But I had a day job and another day job and another day job. 143 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,160 So it was difficult. And when I, you know, I reached, 144 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,880 you know, 50, I was kind of, I'm too old for this shit. 145 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,280 Now I want to enjoy life a little, you know. 146 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:46,480 And yes, I'll be writing role-playing games and as long 147 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:52,480 as I can, let's say, as long as it pays the bill also. 148 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,640 Well, I mean, you will always have a backer in US for all of 149 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,120 your stuff. Well, I think we said this 150 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,840 before, I think I put it out on the blue sky or whatever. 151 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:05,360 Like if you, if you drop a project, you're one of the 152 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,600 probably 3 or 4 people where I'll just like immediately 153 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,960 Scroll down the most expensive one, click back and then 154 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,640 eventually come back and actually read what I backed. 155 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,720 Because it doesn't matter what it is, I know I'm going to like 156 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,080 it. And that that is held true every 157 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,000 single time so far. That's cool. 158 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,160 So so your current project, though, is fallen blades in with 159 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,320 stars and I know I saw you talking about a little bit on 160 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,240 blue sky where you were going to do an itch funding or a 161 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,040 Kickstarter for it. You would decided to end up 162 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,720 doing a Kickstarter for it. So, and it's, and it, I think 163 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,720 it's a, it's APDF only, like it's a printed home version, you 164 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:43,320 know, However, it turns out what made you decide to do both 165 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:48,400 Kickstarter instead of itch and to do just a, a printed home 166 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,880 version of a game. So for Kickstarter, it was it 167 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:58,760 was easier for me to contact past backers indeed. 168 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,920 And on each I don't, I don't think I have enough on of an 169 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,800 audience now to really, you know, Kickstarter is very 170 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,680 effective as a marketing tool. You know, it's not as much for 171 00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:16,360 for the money you get, it's always fine, but just as a 172 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,320 marketing tool for indie designers, even if it's crowded, 173 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:25,280 it makes it makes things easier. And for the few people who 174 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,080 follow me, it's easier for them to find me too on Kickstarter. 175 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:33,000 So but I'll see maybe forever projects. 176 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,120 I'll use each, you know, I will see in the future. 177 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,560 And for the do it yourself part, you know, the print at home, 178 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:47,360 because I, I printed some games at home, you know, like Kala 179 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:52,880 Roth and other games and I, you know, my little games that I 180 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,280 stapler drums and I thought, you know, oh, it's so cool, you 181 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,200 know, so, so cool. I, I want to make a project, a 182 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,760 project like that. And so that's why I decided, no, 183 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,200 I want something very simple so people can print that at home or 184 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,800 go at Kinko's or whatever. And it it will cost them a dime 185 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,680 and they will be able to to print to print the game. 186 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,360 I wanted to have that do it yourself feeling truly, you 187 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,680 know, not those do it yourself projects where it's not do it 188 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,520 yourself at all, right? Yeah, which? 189 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,960 I like a lot, you know, but. But yeah, the scene is very. 190 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,640 Much moved. Away from DIY, it's really cool 191 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,320 to have a project that's going right now. 192 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,720 I'm like, ah, cool, a little printed home DIY scene. 193 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,200 I love that, you know? Because I'm always happy, you 194 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:47,400 know, with projects that are, you know, that look good and 195 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,840 all, but sometimes you, you want to go back to something a little 196 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,520 bit more, you know, closer, closer to, to the roots, I, I'd 197 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,560 say. Yeah, back when they were still 198 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:01,240 just Zen's on Zen quest, you know, and people weren't putting 199 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:06,240 out I $1,000,000 IP, you know, campaigns during during Zen 200 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,720 month or whatever. Because yes, I talked with 201 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:14,120 another designer and you know, the analogy with the pank, the 202 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,520 punk bands, it's the same. You know you, you go to a comic 203 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,280 convention, you do a Zen, the guy across the VL do does Zen 204 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,120 also. You come to him, you buy his in, 205 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,600 and then he comes to you. He buys you, He buys you in. 206 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,160 And yeah. You did your day, but. 207 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,560 Just passing the same 10 bucks around the scene for yeah, yeah, 208 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,800 yeah. Yeah, and that's basically 209 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,440 because if you ask anybody, you know, how do you know about 210 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,480 Kobe? Asian, his games 9 times out of 211 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,840 10. You know, you people who say 212 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,280 what? He's a Japanese guy, don't know 213 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:53,680 him, don't know. But you know, as long as you are 214 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,440 OK with this, you have, it's not a problem. 215 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,680 But, but you have to be aware of it. 216 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,280 It seems for me, at least in France, I don't know, it's not 217 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:09,880 that much in the USI I I'd say. But you saw first time creators, 218 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,320 they think they're going to come and they're going to do a multi 219 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,440 $1,000,000 Kickstarter right away. 220 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,480 And obviously they're a little disappointed more often than 221 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,360 not, so. Yeah. 222 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,360 Yeah, we have noticed that a lot we've. 223 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:26,880 Noticed. A couple years we have 224 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,040 definitely had this discussion that's like, oh, this is like 225 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,360 their first project. Do they, do they really want to 226 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,200 aim for like $300,000? Because it's probably not a 227 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:36,760 realistic goal, you know? Yeah. 228 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,720 Once in a fucking blue moon, you know, maybe one will succeed, 229 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,520 but that's that's that's the exception, not the rule. 230 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,360 You, you have to know that you are a Pang band and I, I was 231 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,920 fortunate enough, you know, the black sword act is like my 232 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,880 single who sold very well basically so. 233 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,640 But it's enough to, you know, it's enough to. 234 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,800 What? Oh, it's enough to to get by so 235 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:05,920 you know. That's cool. 236 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,440 I mean it because it's it's an incredible game. 237 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,520 I mean, but you know what you were saying about the scene, 238 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,640 We've obviously talked about that here on the show a bunch. 239 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,800 Anyone that listens to us, especially episode 200 knows 240 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,040 that's kind of how we feel about the indie scene right now. 241 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,760 It's definitely moved away from like the hobby space of people 242 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,960 making fun stuff just to make fun stuff into like you said, 243 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,320 like first time creators coming in being like, I'm going to do 244 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,520 this whole time make $1,000,000 and like making games because 245 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,840 they're marketable and and profitable as opposed to making 246 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,400 games because it's the game that they want to make. 247 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,000 And it's a weird kind of space for for Indy teacher RPGs to be 248 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,680 in where, you know, marketing is your first priority as opposed 249 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,800 to design, which feels like a lot of what's going on right 250 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,000 now, Which again, which This is why we love the fact that this 251 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,880 is a print print at home. Like, you know, quick little 252 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,240 game that's coming out right after we just got Gollum parade, 253 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,880 which is great. So it, it's nice to see And, and 254 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,360 your kind of path in this space is the way a lot of people you 255 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,680 know, prior to, I guess I don't want to say the current batch 256 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,920 did where, you know, you have put out a bunch of things, made 257 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,360 a name for yourself, made some successful things and then went 258 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,960 full time versus, you know, getting into this and 259 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,920 immediately thinking this is going to be your full time job 260 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,120 forever. I'll bet you there's like less 261 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,880 than 50 game designers in the world that are full time on game 262 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,560 design right now. So it's it's and they don't, 263 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,680 they're not into game designers, I can tell you that. 264 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,480 So it's just an interesting space right now. 265 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,960 I have a very scientific proved method. 266 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,720 I throw things against the wall until something sticks. 267 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,800 Basically what I do. A classic approach. 268 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:54,080 Yeah. But but to yeah, to from about 269 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,440 what you said, you know, I always tell people you sometimes 270 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,640 people have a rejection to his, but I say to them, you know, 271 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,319 RPGs are art. It's an art form. 272 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:11,440 The books are art, but also when you play with your friends, 273 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,480 you're doing art. It's a popular art form, you 274 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:19,599 know, So there's no, and I don't say this so you know, I'm an 275 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:21,359 artist and I'm blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 276 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:28,280 No, not about this, but it helps you consider the medium in an in 277 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,640 a meaningful way. You don't do art because you 278 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,640 think it's going to sell. You're not thinking. 279 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,080 You're not thinking I'm going to do this because I think it's 280 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,040 going to sell. You can, of course, a lot of 281 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,040 people do that. Yeah, we, we live in a society 282 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:49,040 that basically live like that. But I don't think that it what 283 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:54,760 produces the best heart around. Yeah, yeah. 284 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,920 I'll not go too deeply into that. 285 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:02,280 I think the way a lot of people view it or the lot of people 286 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,760 interact with that concept makes it feel more like they're doing 287 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,640 crafts, not art. Because to me, how I've always 288 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,360 thought about it and, and the most pretentious way possible, 289 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,400 as someone who was an art major for a period of time, that art 290 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,720 is a thing you make to make a thing, and crafts are the thing 291 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,880 you make to sell a thing. And I think there's a lot of 292 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,960 people making crafts in this space and not art. 293 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:32,480 And yeah, and that's, that's probably as far as I go with 294 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,840 that because I think our last episode is going to piss enough 295 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,440 people off. But it's like I said, I think I 296 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,920 think the, the, you know what I mean, We also live in in a world 297 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,880 and an economy that's burning and no one has any money because 298 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,800 capitalists and oligarchs have stolen it from us for 299 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,760 generations. So I understand the desire to, 300 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:53,800 to monetize and make some extra money on the side, but I just, I 301 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,200 just don't like the space we're in where we've moved out of 302 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,440 hobby and into some Sigma grind set where every second of our 303 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,560 life has to be productive and therefore make money. 304 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:07,000 So, you know, it's, it's a weird time to be making a thing that 305 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:12,040 can also be sold. And I don't envy, I don't envy 306 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:16,160 that I, you know, that's what, that's why we're critics, not 307 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:17,840 creators, you know? Yeah, yeah. 308 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:23,320 But that's good, because one thing you can do with art also 309 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,200 it it, it can be criticized. That's a great thing about it. 310 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:32,640 There's nothing sacred about it, you know so but also yes, when 311 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,720 you are an indie creator, you can in between a rock and a hard 312 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:41,280 place because oh, you want to make money yes, because I have 313 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,560 bills to pay guys, I'm. Sorry, but yeah, because I have 314 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,800 to, yeah. I have to, you know, it's not 315 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:52,200 like, you know, because I've done 40 years of shitty jobs and 316 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,200 OK, I consider I've done my part now. 317 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,520 Now I'm going to enjoy myself a little and as long as I can. 318 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,680 But but but but yes, it's difficult because, you know, if 319 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,440 a big company releases a game, everybody's oh, it's great, it's 320 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,760 cool. It's a new game if you're an 321 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,480 indie creator. And why do you sell it? 322 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,600 Are you a capitalist, dude? Dude bills Banks. 323 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:26,520 You know, I have a mortgage to pay. 324 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,080 I'm sorry. Yeah. 325 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,000 But yes, it's it's not an easy place to be. 326 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,640 And you're never really going to be like, like, is this worth the 327 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,000 $5 or dot it off or like the thing? 328 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,760 And it's just like, yeah, bro, like, that's less than the cup 329 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,760 of coffee you had this morning. And you're going to get hours of 330 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,480 play out of this. So it's, yeah, it's a weird. 331 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,920 It's a weird. If only people could make art 332 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,600 and not worry about it costing anything. 333 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,480 But that is not the society that we're ever going to have 334 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,200 anywhere. And that that's unfortunate. 335 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,280 So money is always part of it and we just have to kind of 336 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:07,680 navigate it as as best we can. So your your current game, 337 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,400 fallen blades endless stars. What? 338 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,760 What is fallen blades? Endless stars? 339 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:19,240 I'm going to try to talk about it without violating any 340 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,680 copyrights, but basically I watched Andor and I play Fallen 341 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:29,680 Order on my PS4 and and I was and I read Mythic Bastion Land 342 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,600 by Chris McDowell and it was oh, nights. 343 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,600 Oh, I want to make a game about space nights because I want to 344 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,440 play Star Wars with my friends, but I don't have the money to 345 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,600 pay for Star Wars. So I'm going to make write 346 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,000 something completely different space nights that nothing to do 347 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,320 with Jedi's and an empire who doesn't have anything to do with 348 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,800 the over empire. But basically I wanted to do 349 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,760 that. And as always, I want to make 350 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:07,760 games that basically you, you read in one, maybe two hours and 351 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,880 you get to play the following evening or the following day. 352 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,600 But and with people who don't know much about role-playing 353 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,120 games as well, something easy to teach and easy to run. 354 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,440 That's because that's how I like to do things. 355 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,920 But yeah, basically I wanted to have a game using IN2V odd rules 356 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,840 where I can play a space night and slice and dice across the 357 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,080 Galaxy basically. Yeah, I gotta gotta wield your 358 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,800 maze blade, you know? Legally distinct Space nights, 359 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,440 Legally distinct space nights. There you go. 360 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,440 So you said it's it's into the odd, it's mark of the odd. 361 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,840 What made you go? I know you, you were just 362 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,520 reading Mythic Bastion Land, which obviously is it even Mark 363 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:59,280 of the Odd if it's from the guy who made the odd, but what made 364 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,840 you, Is it because you were reading it, you wanted to go 365 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,600 with that or or is Into the Odd just something that you enjoy? 366 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,280 I know a lot, especially with like mouse shooter and stuff 367 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:08,760 like that. Into the Odd just feels like 368 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,120 such a approachable system for newer players to kind of get 369 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:17,600 them into that OSR ish sphere of of games and stuff. 370 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,000 But what made you want to pick that system specifically for 371 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,720 this? Because first of all, the first 372 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,440 time I read the first edition of Into the other, it, it, it just, 373 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:33,800 it blew my mind. I was how can you put that much 374 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,040 stuff in 48 pages? Because yes, at the time it was, 375 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:44,560 it was 48 pages. And I, I, I, I jammed it, I run 376 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:45,560 it. I played. 377 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:51,200 I really, really like. Yeah, exactly. 378 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,520 I I really like this system because yeah, the ease we've we 379 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,160 that you can introduce people new to RPGs with it. 380 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,640 It beats almost every every other game. 381 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,040 I think even more Bog is a little bit more complex than 382 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:14,200 into the other to to be honest. And, and when I read Magic 383 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,440 Bastion Land, yes, it was yes, a bit of synchronicity, you know, 384 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,320 nights, space nights, yeah, OK, let's do that. 385 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:27,760 Seems seems OK. And I wanted to do how much, how 386 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,960 much stuff I could ram into 40 pages as well. 387 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,160 It was a basically a minimalist exercise for me, how much I can 388 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:44,120 put in into 40 pages. Space combat OK, design scenario 389 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:49,840 OK, etcetera, etcetera. Yeah, I mean 40 pages because 390 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,640 right at the top, you know, that's what it says. 391 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,440 You said a forty page gene brewing with tools and ideas to 392 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,200 play space nights fighting an evil empire. 393 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,960 And then the list of stuff you put in here is crazy for 40 394 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:01,240 pages. I think a lot of people could 395 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,600 put one of these things in there, but you got maze blade 396 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,520 attack moves, rules for maintaining upgrading your ship, 397 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,960 space combat, chases, duels, apprentices, tools and lists for 398 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,520 creating MPCS, design planets and adventures with a few Daisos 399 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:21,400 and 120 adventure seeds. 20 adventure scenes Crazy crazy. 400 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,920 Yeah, that's, that's the worst, that's the worst part to do to 401 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,800 to be honest. Why? 402 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,840 Why'd you do 120 adventure scenes? 403 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:38,520 Because there there are 20 type of planets. 404 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,720 You, you, you can go on, No 20 kind of activities you can have 405 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,360 on a planet basically is a planet, a factory or prison, 406 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:52,640 whatever. 20 And I wanted to have at least 6 adventure seeds 407 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:58,080 per planet type. And when I did the math and I 408 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:03,120 found out, Oh my God, I have to, I have to write 120. 409 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,760 I, I think I wept a little, but then I, I got to work. 410 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,200 But you know, you're just why, why did I did this? 411 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:14,240 Why? Why? 412 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,880 Well, you saw you saw the 70 plus Knights in Mythic Bastion 413 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,960 land in which I will almost double this. 414 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:26,120 That is what I'm doing. Chris McDowell. 415 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,600 I think that's like a valuable use of time though, because I 416 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,440 think adventure seeds, especially for something that's 417 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,480 like a mark of the Odd, but it's fairly easy like to take a spark 418 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,960 of an idea and put together an adventure. 419 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,320 As someone who's run a bunch of into the odd, I think that is 420 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:47,640 like such a high value part of any like game you could possibly 421 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,960 put out because it it gives it so much life, you know? 422 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,640 Yeah, I mean, I would much rather have 120 adventure seeds 423 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,720 than one OK adventure. You know what I mean? 424 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,320 Like especially with a with a game like into the odd, you 425 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,320 know, which is easily designed around, you know, campaign play 426 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,080 and stuff to being able to take something and run with it as 427 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,480 opposed to have something and and kind of have to follow along 428 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,200 with it. Is is more my play style. 429 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,520 So you know, I will, I will always appreciate the adventure 430 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,880 seeds and you. So this again, pretty small 431 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,320 project printed home everything going on. 432 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,120 But you do have a stretch goal in here. 433 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,520 So what what do we have for the stretch goal which which you're 434 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,680 not far off of at this point. You're 2/3 the way there with 25 435 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,920 days left. The first stretch goal is done, 436 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,520 so you'll have a little adventures, static adventures. 437 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,640 So in the last stretch goals, yes, I thought, you know, So 438 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,560 what I take inspiration from, there are several episodes. 439 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:59,320 So maybe I I wanted to have another take on this resetting. 440 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,480 And I thought, what if I mix, you know, Indiana Jones and Star 441 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,360 Wars? So basically let's play space 442 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:12,440 archaeologist. So that will be that will be the 443 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,680 second. Yeah, the second, a stretch goal 444 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,560 will be this, I think around 20 pages. 445 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,320 So, you know, to design your quest, what objects to find, 446 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:30,080 design your nemesis, and yeah, and creating your team of space 447 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,960 archaeologists fighting the empire. 448 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,640 And of course, because they're the same. 449 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,760 That's awesome. And are you gonna keep it to 20 450 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,080 pages or is this gonna, is that gonna be your mission? 451 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,080 Like, no matter what, I'm gonna stuff it all into 20 pages. 452 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:51,760 Or is this gonna, is this gonna? For you, I'm I'm gonna, I'm 453 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,600 gonna let myself a bit more, yes, a bit more leeway with this 454 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,560 one. If it's more, it's more it's 455 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,240 it's not gonna be a problem because people always ask 456 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,720 already ask for things. Can we play an alien species? 457 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,520 Well, OK, yes. So I guess I have to make rules 458 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:19,280 for that. So it's it keeps adding up, it 459 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,800 kicks, it keeps adding up, but I try to stay, you know, A2 page 460 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,280 spread or one page per subject. That's when I want to. 461 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,200 I want to keep it at least a bit that way if possible. 462 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,960 Gotcha. So I mean with, with the 463 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,000 possibility that this is at least 20 potentially up to 40 464 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,040 pages backing 1 project basically gets you 2 projects at 465 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,720 this point. Like that's, that's what you're 466 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,880 if it hits $3000, which again it's already at over $2100 with 467 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,880 I think it's only been out for it was 30 days, right. 468 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,200 So it's only been out for five days. 469 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,160 Yeah, plenty of time to to get all the way up to the stretch 470 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,040 goal. As I maybe already said, I suck 471 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,320 at marketing, so you know, yes, I'll do this for free. 472 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,760 You know, I think that's that's what you know, unfortunately, 473 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,400 this is again, is this the space we live in? 474 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,280 Because I guarantee if the the same people that are like, wait, 475 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,280 who's Kobayashi are the same people that are like, oh, I love 476 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,840 the black hack, you know, or I'm sorry, the black sword hack. 477 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,400 So it's you know, it's social media, man, it's hard. 478 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,960 You know, I've had to even even just for doing the show, there 479 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,680 was a time period where I was what, like 30-40 episodes behind 480 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,600 on like posting about like our stuff on social media. 481 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,880 I had to because I used to do like I used to craft the 482 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,680 Instagram page. It was always in like this 483 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,560 correct order and shit. And I'm just like, no, I can't 484 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,360 do that shit anymore. I like, I post one post when 485 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,360 we're done and that's going to be it. 486 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,680 So I can imagine kind of how hard it is as creative to like 487 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,320 just want to be making games and having fun stuff, but to also 488 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:58,120 kind of have to be a personality on social media too to really 489 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:04,000 get that, that following and to be posting like multiple times a 490 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,320 day. I mean, there's people that I 491 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,760 have muted now that post like 1015 times a day, but they got a 492 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,000 following. So, you know, I couldn't do 493 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,240 that. So I can't imagine as a creator 494 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,800 wanting to do that part as well. No kidding. 495 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,960 I'm I'm like yourself and and I think that's why sometimes some 496 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,640 of my projects struggle or at least I don't reach, I don't 497 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,400 feature a larger audience because, you know, I don't want 498 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,400 to be posting on Blue Sky every day. 499 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,960 Oh, today I had a coffee. It was great. 500 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,040 I bought a book. It was a great book. 501 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,200 Oh, I took a shit. Yeah. 502 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:42,480 Thank you. Thank you very much. 503 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:43,160 I don't care. It's. 504 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,160 A great seat, you know. Yeah, yeah. 505 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,920 You know, so basically, you know, I just what I posted all 506 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,640 you where is this miniature game? 507 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,480 I think it's fun. I played and that's it. 508 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:04,200 Or yes, I'm writing a game it's released now, please go see it. 509 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:10,040 But I post once, no, twice, I think you know, and and that's 510 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,320 it because I I don't care. You know, I don't pay ads on 511 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:19,040 Facebook as well. But on the same time, you see 512 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,200 that the more people are present, the more where I'd say 513 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,480 unbearable, the larger organs they have. 514 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,240 That's, you know, that's that's sad, but that's how it works. 515 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:37,360 But the truth is you don't always know why something works 516 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,120 and something doesn't. You know, Flail was my first 517 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,920 Kickstarter. So I basically, I was expecting 518 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:49,720 to make, I don't know, $500, you know, expect to send a book to 519 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,200 my mom and, and that would be it. 520 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,200 But yeah, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. 521 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,480 You it's really hard to predict, but I refuse to go to, you know, 522 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,520 yes, social media and stuff. I do what I enjoy. 523 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,600 I think sometimes I connect with some people who remain and it 524 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,160 will grow, I hope a bit more steadily, but I'm happy with 525 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,600 that. I have no problem with that. 526 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:23,400 Yeah, I mean, Flayo made close to €9000, which is, which is 527 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,040 great for our first project on Kickstarter. 528 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,640 Yeah. And and yet we backed it. 529 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,080 I don't remember. I literally don't. 530 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:34,440 I mean, I don't remember yesterday. 531 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,240 So this is not like it's a stretch that I don't remember 532 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,080 like 2 plus years ago, but I don't even remember. 533 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,720 I didn't even remember that I backed on Kickstarter. 534 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,360 I'm glad Hunter said that because it brought it back a 535 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,000 little bit because in my head I was going, how did I even hear 536 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,960 about Flayo? Yeah, but I think Flay was one 537 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,040 of those ones early that we backed and then actually 538 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,240 received and then reviewed as well, which was which was cool 539 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,040 in the early days when we were backing, I don't know, peak 540 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:03,280 2021-2022 Kickstarter, indie game time when I was back in 541 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:08,920 like 50 projects at a time. But God, I had something that I 542 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,159 was going to ask and it escaped my brain when we when we started 543 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:14,280 talking about Flail. But I mean, so the Kickstarter 544 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,120 too though is great because of one of the things you said where 545 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,520 you can basically use it as a newsletter to contact your 546 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,520 previous. So the more you do and the more 547 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,400 new people you get, the more people you reach in the future. 548 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,520 Have you thought about doing something like a newsletter 549 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,800 instead of like social media where you can actually get all 550 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,960 those people to just basically sign up for the your own version 551 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,920 of of what you get from Kickstarter? 552 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,280 Yeah, and I think maybe I should do that because you know, I can 553 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,719 do it to you know what when I want basically and I and I can 554 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:53,520 keep it to useful stuff. So it would be I, I, I think 555 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,960 maybe I, I, I will try that in the future yes, because most 556 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:04,200 people where is your discord and I think I don't I don't I have 557 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,040 glasses discord make my eyes bleed. 558 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,680 I cannot do that. I'm sorry. 559 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,640 Yeah. And but newsletter, yes, may 560 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,040 maybe that that's the way to go. Yeah, I, you know, I use Discord 561 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,160 for a lot of stuff. I'm. 562 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,920 But I'm also in like 40 discords that are muted and stuck in a 563 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,840 folder. But our discord is nice and 564 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,760 small and I can still talk to everybody in it when I've hopped 565 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,160 into some of the bigger discords, you know, I would love 566 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,400 to be able to, you know, looking at like the mothership discord 567 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,280 or the Merkborg discord, you know, I have ideas. 568 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,000 Want to bounce off people. Then you realize there's like 569 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,440 10,000 people and it's too much. I can't, it's overwhelming. 570 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,600 Yeah. You feel like you're just a drop 571 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,520 in a bucket. You know, we're trying to trying 572 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,160 to start talking and it's just too much. 573 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,120 I I like the size of our discord right now. 574 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,520 Again, small join out there if you like the link Turner bio, 575 00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:58,480 but that anytime you ask a question, like 3 people will get 576 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,560 back to you and and you'll get something from it. 577 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,280 And that's a good size for for where we're at. 578 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,120 If it if I mean we're never going to blow up and have like a 579 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,280 massive discord, but I would I would be I would struggle with 580 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,920 that a lot to try to keep up with it because I mean hunters 581 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,200 of pro discord is in there every single day, you know, chatting 582 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:18,840 up with everybody. I'm. 583 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,600 The worst at it so. Yeah, I think you've said like 1 584 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,040 message in the past like couple of weeks. 585 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,120 But anyway I can I, I feel your pain. 586 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,520 Just the the Internet interaction is a struggle, 587 00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:34,600 especially for us pre Internet people you know? 588 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,920 Yeah, yeah. Because once again, I don't we, 589 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:46,560 we were talking about, you know, then we have the need, I would 590 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:53,040 say, but your obligation to monetize our work already. 591 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,280 I don't want to monetize in any way or commodify, as we say the 592 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:03,000 rest of my time, you know, no, Hey, here is Kobayashi, 593 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,440 Kobayashi showing books, Kobayashi showing miniatures, 594 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,680 Kobayashi watching a movie, Kobayashi reading a book. 595 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,720 It would I would no, I would shoot my I would shoot myself. 596 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,720 I don't want to impose that to the world. 597 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:20,240 You know that that's not possible. 598 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,720 Listen, as long as you can pay your bills and you're having a 599 00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,360 good time, you know that that's the dream. 600 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,360 I think at this point, like I know I'm never going to own a 601 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,600 home, you know, so I just want to pay my bills and and go from 602 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:35,040 there. So so this is this is yeah, 603 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:36,400 right. This is going to be coming out 604 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,440 again, 25 days left on this and then you are going to be working 605 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,880 on hopefully the Star Raiders space arcs game. 606 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,320 What's what? Is there anything on the docket 607 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,080 you have planned for after that? Because again, you've been 608 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,680 pumping stuff out, which is which has been fantastic, but 609 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,560 anything that you actually have like in line. 610 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,240 Yeah, because I'm a bit, I'm a bit mad in the head. 611 00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:06,880 So I'm always working between 4:00 and 5:00 projects basically 612 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,160 on the back burner, but I come and go touch. 613 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,360 So yes, I think next game it will be a Stimpen game. 614 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:21,400 Unlikely gentleman. I I did a a long time ago, a 615 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,360 quick start that you can find on drive through RPGI think. 616 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,560 But it it's going to be, I think a 200 pages book this time. 617 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,880 But as always, you know, 10 pages rules and the rest just a 618 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,640 lot of content to to build your adventures in the setting. 619 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,040 And after that it would be another big project. 620 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:49,320 It would be Doc Leningrad. So so I can some of this imagine 621 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,600 that John Carpenter, you know, the movie director, he was born 622 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,000 in the Soviet Union and he made movies there. 623 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,520 And this is the game about those movies. 624 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,280 John Carpenter, Redstone. I got it. 625 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,320 Nice. Yeah, basically that's it. 626 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,880 And I think because, yeah, my, my mother is from the Soviet 627 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,640 Union. She, she was burned very, she 628 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,840 lived there for a long time. So I'll, I have a lot of 629 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:25,160 testimonies of documentation and I heard a lot when I was a kid. 630 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,600 I went there when I was a kid, a lot of time. 631 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,560 So I have plenty, plenty of things to to put in there. 632 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,640 But you can trust me, it's going to be stupid. 633 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,440 You know, Brezhnev is a, is a Cyborg. 634 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,240 You have sharks in the sea of Finland. 635 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:42,960 It's it's going to be pretty stupid, I think. 636 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,200 That sounds awesome. That sounds awesome. 637 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:46,840 Not stupid. That sounds incredible. 638 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,920 I'm very excited for that. Yeah. 639 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,840 And then my brain broke again. I think we're all tired this 640 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,160 morning. I didn't get coffee the same way 641 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,560 that Hunter. Hunter did also not get coffee. 642 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,080 I'm looking at a Society of Unlikely Gentlemen quick start 643 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,640 on drive through RPG right now. Actually I'm like, I'm going to 644 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,560 grab this right now. I'm. 645 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,840 Kind of excited that I are not excited. 646 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,560 I'm surprised that I actually haven't heard that one if it was 647 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,000 up on drive through RPG because I have a lot of your kind of 648 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:24,040 previous stuff or stuff that you've done before, like Cursed 649 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,640 is fantastic. I don't think a lot of people 650 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,520 have seen that. Gun Dogs, I think is one that 651 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:35,520 you've done as well, yeah. Extinction, which nobody talks 652 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,800 about, but which sells quite well, in fact. 653 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,400 It's a gold seller. It's basically, yeah, space, 654 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,640 Space or with the Black Hack, basically. 655 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,040 And it worked pretty well in fact. 656 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,520 Oh cool. Die 100 times is also one that I 657 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:57,120 love that slaps. You just have so much stuff it 658 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:03,040 like I'm like, you're definitely on like my list of like your 659 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,120 favorite game designers, favorite game designers. 660 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:06,760 You know, there's a couple of people out there that don't 661 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,720 really have a social media presence, but everything that 662 00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:13,640 they drop is just absolutely incredible and and you are very 663 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,600 easily, you know, on on that very short list. 664 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,520 So for any of our listeners that are listening, definitely go 665 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:25,200 grab all of all of Kobayashi backlog and you'll see some 666 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,200 amazing stuff, especially if you like lighter games. 667 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,120 Because like you said, you're gonna put a 200 page book. 668 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,280 It's gonna have 10 pages of rules. 669 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,400 So you're gonna see something like Curse or you see something 670 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,520 like Gun Dogs or or die 100 times. 671 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,840 And it's light, but it's fun and it's always full of flavour and 672 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,400 vibes. And I really like what you said 673 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,000 earlier about like when you made the Black Sword Hack where 674 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,680 you're not, you know, picking the system and trying to stuff a 675 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,280 game into it. You're, you're picking an 676 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,200 experience you want to have in a genre you want to play in and 677 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,040 trying to make a system really fit that genre, which comes 678 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,800 through a ton in your in your. Yeah. 679 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,640 Yeah. Which just makes the experience 680 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,160 much more enjoyable when you don't feel like, you know, 681 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,280 you're doing the five E thing where it's just five heavy 682 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:14,000 reskinned, you know? That's yeah, that's that's I 683 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,840 remember a long time ago it was, you know, I think it was, I 684 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:24,440 don't remember, but the thing the guy did a noise, an OSR game 685 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:30,040 and you are we have psychic powers and the psychic powers 686 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:35,480 were just GNG spells renamed I psychic powers. 687 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,800 Perfect, amazing. Such a such a great fresh idea 688 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,080 of. Course. 689 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,200 And and. And they put on Kickstarter for 690 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:51,640 $30,000. But so, so when people go find 691 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,400 all of your previous works, when they go back, you know, falling 692 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,600 Blades in the stars and everything, where can they find 693 00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,160 you? Where can they find your stuff? 694 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:06,760 So mainly on drive through RPG. So as I said, drive 4 RPGs for 695 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:14,120 my my big projects, so to speak on each IO and I am Alexander 696 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,840 Kobayashi. And this is my experimental 697 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,320 stuff, you know, like die 100 times, kind of things like that 698 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:27,080 roots my pacifist game and those kind of things. 699 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,560 And you can find me on one no two social media because I'm 700 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,400 old. You can find me on Facebook. 701 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,080 So where where I am Alexander Kobayashi. 702 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,480 And because I'm not a fascist, you can find me on Blue Sky 703 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,480 where I am, I think Alexander Kobayashi as well. 704 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:51,160 I think I guess but. If you if you if you search 705 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,360 Kobayashi, you find you right at the top. 706 00:43:54,320 --> 00:44:02,800 So yeah, you are Kobayashi Dash RPG. 707 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,000 There you go. I have a question. 708 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,000 So you have a lot of stuff on your drive through that's not on 709 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,240 your itch dot IO and you just say use your itch dot IO for 710 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:13,640 your like more experimental stuff. 711 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,320 Are you ever considering migrating your like previous 712 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:24,640 work on to Itch as well? Maybe, maybe to be to be honest, 713 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:31,400 not not now, because the problem is most the well drive through 714 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,880 RPG. If you put APDF on it, the first 715 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,680 comment you get is when do I get POD? 716 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:47,680 When do I get print on demand? And if I and on each area I can 717 00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:52,280 only put the PDF and the people want the POD, they have to pay 718 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,800 more. So I'm kind of screwed on that 719 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,920 point to be honest. But as Fallen Blaze Endless 720 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:03,840 Stars is a digital product only, I think I'll put him, I'll put 721 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,880 him on both. But that, yeah, on each shirt. 722 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,760 That's the problem. If you want to do print on 723 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:16,960 demand, it's it's complicated. It's complicated because as I 724 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,960 live in France, Dre 4 RPG is great for, you know, people in 725 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,240 the US and Canada, whatever, they can still buy my games, 726 00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:28,600 physical copies of my games. If I print things in France, 727 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,680 it's going to cost an arm and I like to send it to you. 728 00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:35,240 Yeah, it's. Only get worse and worse with 729 00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:37,840 the terrorists and stuff. I know we've had Alex T on a 730 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,840 lot. Black oath and that's exactly 731 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,400 their philosophy as well as they live in. 732 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,600 I believe it's Spain, maybe Portugal, but I believe it's 733 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,920 Spain and that's exactly their philosophy. 734 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,640 If people want hard prints, my books, which they really like 735 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,080 Dr. Thru has print shops in Europe and in America and and 736 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,880 you know, even, you know, just to be able to have it is is 737 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,320 better not having it. So it makes sense. 738 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,840 And again, it's only going to become more and more viable as, 739 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:08,480 you know, the tariffs and and whatever's and the, you know, 740 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:13,840 when fascism spreads, you know, but the the the nice wave of 741 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,240 orange fast or something. But yeah, so that's we'll make 742 00:46:17,240 --> 00:46:20,320 sure that the links to fallen blades in the stars to your itch 743 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,360 to drive through everything is exactly where everyone thinks 744 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:23,960 links are down below and everything. 745 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,440 And Kobayashi, seriously, thank you so much for coming on again. 746 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,320 We are big fans of yours. We're always going to re skeet 747 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,520 and back and and everything, all of the work that you do. 748 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,360 So it's it's really been a pleasure getting to talk to you. 749 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,080 Thank you very much. Yeah, and that's going to be it 750 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,400 for today. Catch us on Thursday, we're 751 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:43,880 going to be chatting with Logan Dean. 752 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,600 And then Friday maybe we'll do a game. 753 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,480 We haven't decided yet. So we'll see. 754 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,680 We'll see what happens in. But again, thank you so much for 755 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,280 being here and we'll talk to all of you later. 756 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:52,560 Bye. Bye.