1 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,240 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll Podcast. 2 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:20,400 My name is Ryan. And I'm our Kiss the Eagle 3 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,520 merchant extraordinaire. And with us today, we have a 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,520 very special guest that is Gabriel Caroga. 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:27,960 How are you doing today, Gabriel? 6 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,040 Hello, guys. Ryan Hander, thank you for 7 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:33,960 having me. It's a pleasure. 8 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:36,840 It's, it's, it's great to have you on. 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,000 I mean, we're, we're big fans of your work. 10 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,080 Yeah, absolutely. And for for those of you that 11 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,880 for, for those out there listening that might not know 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,320 your work as well as we do, who, who, who the heck are you? 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,040 What might people know you for in in this space here? 14 00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:55,400 I am an artist and game designer. 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:02,880 Also I try to be a writer, I created neurocity war plan, Hell 16 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,600 night, just finished the black rainbow society and campaigning 17 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,840 for Lords of death an illusion with gallant Knights games. 18 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,560 Does he know how to do anything besides make games? 19 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,360 I think he's got like like 3-4 hundred games at this point. 20 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,640 It's crazy. Alan Barr's like output. 21 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,440 It's it's insane. It's very prolific. 22 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,560 Yeah. And as so I, I, I have to say 23 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,960 that Alan is a, a great force in the, in the industry, in the 24 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,160 independent industry. And he helped me very much in my 25 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,840 early days finding a printer and help me with all the doubts I 26 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,720 had. So he's super recommendable. 27 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,240 Everyone checks out his stuff. Yeah, I awesome. 28 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,160 One thing that I I love about of Ellen and Gallant Knight games 29 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,120 too is the amount of stuff that he not only does for just like 30 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,360 his stuff, but the number of projects he's doing with like 31 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:00,800 other people. A lot of times like. 32 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,400 And we'll get a little bit more into Lord of Death Illusion and 33 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,360 your guys's connection with with Gallant Knight and that. 34 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,120 But some of the things that you've talked about, some of the 35 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:14,880 things we've talked about in the show, some of your past work 36 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,520 before we get there, One of which, as I said before, I'm 37 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,320 holding in my hand, this is the new version of Warp Land Hunter 38 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,640 for those in podcast land is holding the old version and 39 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:26,960 Neurocity. I, I ran into Warp Land first 40 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,280 before I ran into Neurocity. And this is the first time that 41 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,920 we encountered your work and, and talked about here on the 42 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:34,960 show. I was trying to scroll back and 43 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:39,600 find actually what episode that we did that on, because that was 44 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:44,480 quite a while ago. You can get it for very cheap in 45 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,040 drive through RPG. Oh, with the poster. 46 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,480 Nice. Yeah, you can get it. 47 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,680 Yeah, I love, as we were saying before the show started, the the 48 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,960 cover of the new I I guess it was like the European version. 49 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,440 That's stunning, depending on one of the best fantasy 50 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,680 illustrators ever. That's a fantastic poster, but I 51 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,400 will say that we did War Plans on episode 7. 52 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,080 No, yeah, it's not that long ago. 53 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:18,280 It was episode 7, which means it was, well, like the third or 54 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:19,960 fourth episode I was on the show. 55 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:21,760 Which episode? 2 years ago? 56 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,280 No. On which episode are we? 57 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,040 180. Wow. 58 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,080 And that doesn't include all of our. 59 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,520 That doesn't include all of like the, the APS and everything like 60 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,320 that. Actual, actual number of 61 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,000 episodes we've done. I think it'll be like 232. 62 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,200 So we. Did Hell Nights on episode 111 63 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,280 which is a great number. Yeah, great, great number. 64 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:47,760 You know, also very prolific then. 65 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:49,960 No. Well, we, we talk a lot. 66 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,880 Doesn't mean doesn't mean people listen to us, but we talk a lot 67 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,240 for sure. So so we also require a lot of 68 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,720 work to do this. Yeah, yeah, We could do a little 69 00:03:58,720 --> 00:03:59,880 bit more, make it a little nicer. 70 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,080 But you know, we, we people get what we get. 71 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,440 Yeah, but yeah, but we're playing fantastic, fantastic 72 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,440 game we talked about on the show. 73 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,720 And then as we said before, we talked about Help Night on the 74 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,960 show, Neurocity, Warplane, Hell Night. 75 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,200 They all use roughly like the same core system. 76 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,040 But I know that with Hell Night, when you know, because we've 77 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,440 been talking for a while, especially once Hell Night was 78 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,880 coming out, that Hell Knight is a thing that you're kind of like 79 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,560 really latching onto and expanding more and expanding the 80 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:34,920 universe. Because on top of that, you also 81 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,840 have like Sigil the card game. I should go grab those as well. 82 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,680 Black Rainbow Society is an expansion for Hell Knight, if 83 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,200 I'm not completely mistaken. So I guess talk to me a little 84 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,160 bit about or talk to us a little bit about like the, I guess the 85 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,720 system first, since you use it kind of through Neurocity 86 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,360 Warplane and Hell Knight. What drew you to specifically 87 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,640 like the mechanics that you choose to do in that? 88 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,360 Yeah, it's a 2D6 role under the stat system. 89 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:08,400 I think that I wanted something that was easy, intuitive, and 90 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,400 that allowed for complications both in successes and failures. 91 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,920 That's something that's very important to me. 92 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,080 It also allows for criticals in everything you do, so you can 93 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,840 have a critical in a social endeavor. 94 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,080 I really like that. And also like that when you 95 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:33,400 attack, there is a damage that escalates with how successful 96 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,920 the attack was. And that's something very 97 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,480 appealing for me because it makes the combat much faster. 98 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,040 Right. And those are the premises and, 99 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,160 and Helen, for me is that more condensed version of the war 100 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,040 plan system. It's the most obvious version of 101 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,240 the system. Yeah, I mean, like I said, we we 102 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,080 were fans of war play when it came out, especially the book, 103 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,760 because, my gosh, you're as an artist, you are fantastic. 104 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,920 And the work that you put in these books is insane. 105 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,480 Yeah. But, but it's not, it's not my, 106 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,680 it's not my responsibility. It's the responsibility of the 107 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,840 artist I choose to use. I want to collage. 108 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,360 I also hire artists to do their own stuff. 109 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,840 For me, the aesthetics is the main thing. 110 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:22,400 Before embarking on a project, I work with aesthetics first and 111 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,040 with the concept. Which it's a great it's a great 112 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,080 way to do it in a in a in AI. Don't know how if you feel about 113 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:30,320 this in a kind of an adjacent way. 114 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,880 A lot of your work really reminds me a lot of what like 115 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,160 Andre Games Omnivorous does, where there's like always this 116 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:41,320 very specific focus on like the artistry of the project as much 117 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,360 as like the gamification, everything like that. 118 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,960 And it's one thing that like I really love about your work and 119 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,920 theirs and it gives me like it reminisces a little bit based on 120 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,720 that, whether the focus is really to kind of be a little 121 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,640 bit more art house and have more of a focus on, like you said, 122 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,040 the aesthetics of it, not just like a mechanical aspect of it. 123 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,240 Yes, absolutely. I try to embark on it from the 124 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,920 visual aspects and I also when I write, I choose like a playlist 125 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,520 that is specifically designed for that project. 126 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,840 So I try to, it's all like like a mixture of everything, no 127 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,880 music, visuals and then my writing. 128 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,640 And I have found that most people don't read that much. 129 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,040 So I try to intermingle all the everything together with the 130 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,160 visuals and the writing and everything is 1 like one whole 131 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:30,720 work. Very. 132 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,040 Everything points towards the same concept and it's like a 133 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:41,480 hammer pointing the same thing. Yeah, if it is science fantasy 134 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,360 or acid fantasy in the case of war plan, or if it is Dune, 135 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:50,440 Biker metal in the case of Hell Night, or dystopian technoire in 136 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:55,160 the case of neurosity. You do a really great job of 137 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,240 reinforcing that vibe through all aspects of it. 138 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:03,560 I I do especially like listening to the music that comes along 139 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,720 with the game that really like reinforces, like the the war 140 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,440 plan now I'm thinking of specifically, but that does 141 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:15,440 really help to push that. I think the idea is that you can 142 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,640 have the book lying on the on the session and the players can 143 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,520 just scoop over it and they will get what the setting is about 144 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:27,320 without having to read it maybe. So it's like it has like 2 145 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,680 layers. You can just admire the visual 146 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,799 aspect of it and then just delve into it with the writing and the 147 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:40,039 Lord, which which tries to be not overly complex but at least 148 00:08:40,039 --> 00:08:43,480 interesting or original. I try to develop something that 149 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,760 at least for me has not been done before or or add something 150 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,080 different to it. So one of the things you said 151 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,240 was that Hell Night is kind of like a more focused version of 152 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,720 the mechanics. And I think all like when I look 153 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,840 at like you're kind of like all the work that you've done. 154 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,280 Neural city is fantastic. War playing is fantastic. 155 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,040 But to me, and maybe this is this just an outside 156 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,720 perspective, but Hell Knight feels like the like everything 157 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,200 just coming together perfectly. Like simplify the system a 158 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,280 little bit artistically. It went even above and beyond. 159 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,760 The OST from Hi Matt is absolutely fantastic. 160 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,360 The the soundtrack for it. It's like this experience and 161 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,360 for for us on the show, I mean, we do quantify our shitty 162 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:31,960 opinions with like actual numbers. 163 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,480 And hell, Knight is like one of the top, I think two highest 164 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,560 scores we've ever given for a game here on the show. 165 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,560 It was an incredible like, yeah, I mean, well deserved. 166 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,240 Yeah, the experience of reading. It was. 167 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,720 Thank you for taking the time to delve into it. 168 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,760 No, it always requires time, and time is not in abundance. 169 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,000 Yeah, yeah, that's true. I. 170 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,200 Really appreciate that. And I think that I I need to 171 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,480 consider that when I make a book because people are going to pay 172 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,720 it and then they are going to invest some time reading it or 173 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,480 appreciating it. So for me it's like a huge 174 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:18,800 responsibility. Well, you know, part of the part 175 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,840 of you know, what comes into our scores is because we don't just 176 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,560 do like game reviews. It's not just system reviews. 177 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:25,880 It's like a product review as well. 178 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,280 So it's like how the art looks, how it's laid out, like how 179 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:30,800 readable is it, all those kind of things. 180 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,640 So one of the things that was so great about Hell Night for us 181 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,800 specifically, I mean, as part of what you talked about is that 182 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,160 like you have this really good focus on like making sure that 183 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,200 the art reinforces the theme. There's never too much, You're 184 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,520 never going to read just like a pure page of like block text 185 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,960 because it's just too much. And when you throw in the, the 186 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,640 collage art, the, the, the streamline mechanics, the the 187 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,840 soundtrack and everything, it's like an experience to read Hell 188 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,080 Night differently than some other books that that we've had 189 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,320 to go through that feel more, you know, kind of like reading 190 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,800 essays or something where like sometimes you need a slog 191 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:06,880 through a little bit like going through hell night, reading it, 192 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,080 flipping the page, seeing the next piece of art, like seeing 193 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,400 some like fucked up thing that you wrote and like us, like 194 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,400 laughing about it. Like was we're going through it 195 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,000 on the show. It was, it was a really fun game 196 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,000 to go over. And I'm really excited that you 197 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:26,120 have expanded on that world. So first, first was the the card 198 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,880 game that you put out. And next was the Black Rainbow 199 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,520 Society, which is funded and in the process of of happening now. 200 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,760 So tell me a little bit about like why you decided to kind of 201 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:38,600 latch on the Hell Night and expand that universe a little 202 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,200 bit more with your work. I think it's just something that 203 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,080 I wanted to do. I always go with where my heart 204 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,640 is. I think that I am pretty sure 205 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:54,360 that there will be a war plan expansion as well by end of the 206 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,360 year. Also with Bruce Pennington's art 207 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,760 about 3 or 4 words from him. But regarding highlight, I 208 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,920 really wanted to a card game such as the mirror Reality that 209 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:13,000 besides being besides being a great game, I'm also a Magic the 210 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,880 Gathering fan. But I am a bit discouraged by 211 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,160 the current trend of it. I wanted to develop something 212 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:25,080 different, so the card game actually is like a platform that 213 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,920 helps emphasize other aspects of that same setting. 214 00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:33,520 And in the same way, the Black Rainbow Society works like a 215 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,000 spin off of the setting because you can interpret other 216 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,160 characters dealing with other problems. 217 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:44,480 In the case of the Black Rainbow Society, it's like an article 218 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,160 terrorist group that stumbles upon a psychotic drug that 219 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,320 awakens their third eye. So they start seeing demons and 220 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:59,560 otherworldly entities. It's a bit inspired in Scanners 221 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:05,000 the movie and also in They Live. So it's like a mash of those two 222 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,120 movies, I think, with a very, very 80s oriented, of course. 223 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,720 I this such a random side thought, but like I'm not a big 224 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,760 fan of like remakes and stuff, but I would definitely if 225 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,840 someone could remake scanners in like a good way. 226 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,560 I want that movie redone with like just slightly better 227 00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:25,840 graphics, make the heads explode a little bit nicer. 228 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:27,720 And that's such an incredible movie. 229 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,000 But like anyone that's going like, oh, I was inspired by 230 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,800 scanners. Like I'm like, great, I'll read 231 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,240 it just like give it to me. That's fine. 232 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,640 With Michael, I don't, yeah. Yeah. 233 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,000 So what's a lot of your work pulls from the 80s? 234 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,640 You know, like obviously Hell Night is like an 80s doom metal 235 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,920 biker kind of thing. Like what? 236 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,440 Like why 80s doom metal? Like what kind of besides the 237 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,840 fact that it's fucking awesome? Like what kind of pulled you 238 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:58,520 like in that direction? I think that it it, it comes 239 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,120 from my childhood from renting VHS tapes. 240 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:06,640 I have like a green light from my, my folks to just go to the 241 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,640 store and rent whatever I wanted. 242 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,760 So I basically went every couple of days and rented like 5 tapes 243 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,600 or whatever I wanted. Hell raise it or spread the 244 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,120 crude or whatever. And it like made me, it made me 245 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,400 who I am right now. So I am a bit fascinated or 246 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,920 obsessed about that whole decade in particular. 247 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,320 But I'm also a 90s guy. I like the 90s as well as well. 248 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,920 I like the 70s, yeah, but the 80s, at least for this setting, 249 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,720 this is where where it is also war from. 250 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:46,400 I think that fields are very 80s, but from more trash Gordon. 251 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,320 Maybe something like that or more Conan? 252 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,160 That's right. Yeah, definitely a little bit of 253 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:56,920 Hyperborea kind of like tucked in there and then. 254 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,680 In the case in the case of neurosity it it it feeds a bit 255 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,600 more from old like Godard the French movies. 256 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,280 That's why it's in black and white. 257 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,920 Alfavel was a great inspiration behind that. 258 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:20,240 And also that that movie from from Lucas from George Lucas 11. 259 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,880 I can remember the name of the 1st movie that George Lucas did 260 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,480 that. Was this a sci-fi movie? 261 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:32,160 What THX he didn't something THX 11. 262 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,280 Oh THX 1138 yes. That that's a great movie. 263 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,240 I super recommend everyone to watch the movie. 264 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,880 It's an amazing movie. Honestly don't think I've ever 265 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:42,960 seen it. I know I've heard it, but I 266 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,520 don't think I've ever seen it. Yeah, you can see the genius 267 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,760 behind George Lucas in that movie, OK, It's so little. 268 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,600 He does so much. Did he go back and remake 20 269 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,920 versions of it with CGI that kept getting worse or no? 270 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:06,400 No, but, but so that so hell Knight, 80s zoom metal, all 271 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,520 those kind of things. I'm, I'm super excited for Black 272 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,720 Rainbow society. I know I just showed the stream, 273 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,960 but I I love hell Knight. It's fantastic. 274 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,000 All of your work is gorgeous. The cover though, for black 275 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:25,680 rainbow society goes so hard. A lot of your work that you do 276 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,840 in Hell Knight and, and everything I know you said you, 277 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,720 you, you, you know, a lot of amazing artists and work that 278 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,160 goes into it. But maybe I'm tell me if I'm 279 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,960 completely wrong on this, but most of Hellnite was done 280 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,040 physically by hand and then scanned into the computer, 281 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,800 right? Yes, it was done by an artist 282 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:48,880 called Thomas Spicoli. And he's like a very old school 283 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,520 skater, a graffiti artist, and he does all these collage works 284 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,560 and he uses photocopy machines and scans. 285 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,240 And yes, everything's super analog in the case of Hellnite. 286 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:05,079 In the case of Black Rainbow, I took that that style and I did 287 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:09,720 my own thing with my collage. So Black Rainbow is the only 288 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,160 work that was mostly exclusively done by me. 289 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,560 Gotcha. Awesome. 290 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,520 And it's such a visually distinct style. 291 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:25,040 It came out so well. Yeah, yeah, it works like. 292 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:31,080 It works like I wanted to like a like a visual trip or like like 293 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,880 like it was like a movie or, or trying to replicate what's the 294 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,520 psychoelic trip of the characters for Black Rainbow. 295 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,280 So the first half of the book will work a bit like that, 296 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,120 giving you small pieces of what the setting is about, characters 297 00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:53,120 speaking, monsters speaking, demons speaking, some poetry, 298 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,240 some slices of truth within the setting. 299 00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:00,640 I think that it's important to ignite that creativity in the 300 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,080 reader as well. So the so the players make the 301 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,160 setting their own version of the setting. 302 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:10,600 Because I understand that a role-playing games is like a 303 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,120 collaborative storytelling effort between the writer and 304 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:16,040 the and the reader and the player. 305 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,200 Yeah, I mean, you really do understand that. 306 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,360 I mean, it's, it's what's funny when we first started going 307 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:27,160 through Hell Night, I don't, I don't know if it was you or me, 308 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,040 but we're like 80s. We'll see. 309 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,560 And then we get to it and it's like, no, we mean Black Sabbath. 310 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,240 We don't mean like WASP. Like there's a little bit of a 311 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,640 difference here. And it, it was so fun to go over 312 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,160 and, and, and the vibes, as we said before, like with art 313 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:43,680 weather shows or somebody else's, there's a lot. 314 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,600 Of Lost Boys. Also the movie Lost Boys in 315 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,440 Black. Yeah, oh, got. 316 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,600 That for sure. Yeah, for sure. 317 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,240 And then beyond your password, going to your current record 318 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,280 now, we talked about a little bit at the top of the show with 319 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,840 Gallant, with Y'all Knight, with Ellen Barr, You're putting out 320 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,480 Lords of Death and Illusion. I was lucky enough to get to to 321 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:05,760 get a peek of this a little while ago. 322 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,360 I'm very excited to see it out on Backward Kit. 323 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,360 It's already funded, but obviously if you're listening to 324 00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:12,320 this, go fund it. I'll make sure that we get this 325 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:13,840 episode out before the four days are up. 326 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,880 But tell us a little bit about Lords of Death and Illusion. 327 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:25,960 It's going to be a small 30 page fencing beautifully illustrated. 328 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:31,160 I'm I'm sure you have the well it's all full of artwork. 329 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,200 Every every page has something like. 330 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,840 I think it fits the style of most of my books. 331 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,160 But in this case this is AGM less competitive role-playing 332 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,080 game, so it does not need a director DM. 333 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,600 So my idea was to create our a game which I could play when I 334 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,400 had AGM or DM burnout. So. 335 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,760 I could still play with with that. 336 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,800 I, I, I wanted to provide a mechanic that, that work that 337 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,760 could create a story, but at the same time was easy a system that 338 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,760 fade away behind the story. And I think that it works. 339 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,880 We are still using it. We use it last last week. 340 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,560 And people want to play it. It's really lots of fun and it's 341 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,800 very unpredictable and nobody knows what's going, what's going 342 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,880 to happen in the end, how it's going to end. 343 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,160 It's very open. Sounds awesome. 344 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:35,440 And it's and it's very, it's very adjustable to to other 345 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,720 settings. So in the case of Lord of the An 346 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:42,000 Illusion, it comes with a mudboard or troika or helmet or 347 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,880 war plan specific mechanics. So you can fit the game into 348 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,880 that setting and you can use it to create as a as a backup plan 349 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:59,560 behind the campaign. So what makes it so like chaotic 350 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,480 like you said that you know it's GM less but like you never know 351 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,680 what's going to happen. Like what about the game, the 352 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,960 mechanics and like what you put into it makes it where it's so 353 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,120 like reusable and and chaotic so you don't know what happens at 354 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:18,240 the end. Well, you take turns to to 355 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,080 interpret the warlock because it's this is a, a game about 356 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,840 Wizards of warlocks fighting each other. 357 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,360 So you take turns to interpret that warlock and create the 358 00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,560 story of what you're going to do against all of them. 359 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:39,280 And then the mechanics provide you, you roll the dice and the 360 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,280 rest of the of the players need to find out if you're what 361 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,520 you're saying is bullshit or is actually happening. 362 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,000 And that depends on the dice which is hidden. 363 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,600 So they need to decide whether it is an illusion or or a 364 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,760 bullshit or it is truth. And based on that things will 365 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:01,360 fire up. It's a very simple idea, but it 366 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:04,400 works and it helps the the storytelling a lot. 367 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,080 Yeah, yeah, that sounds awesome. No, like I said, you sent it to 368 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,120 me quite a while ago to to go over and at the time I was like, 369 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:14,360 hey, it looks amazing, just like all of your all of your work. 370 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,720 It's fantastic. But the game itself is so fun 371 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,560 going through like the tables and things that you have written 372 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,240 in it. If if anyone's on the fence 373 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,040 about by like backing this just to fucking do it, it's on top of 374 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,400 the fact that everything that that Gabriel does, it's amazing. 375 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,720 Like this is really really really fun, especially to have 376 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,560 just like a a small scene to jump into. 377 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,280 I think it's only $15. Yeah, the PDF is also very 378 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,600 cheap, so it's. Yeah, I think PDF was five. 379 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,320 I was like, yeah, I I backed at the $15. 380 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,920 I'm backing for the the book, you know, $15. 381 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,120 I'm getting the Zine. I also, I love the name Lord of 382 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:55,040 Lords of Death and Illusion. Amazing title, really fantastic. 383 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,880 Yeah, thank you. And yeah, and, and the whole art 384 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,560 work is done because I'm the, the version I showed you, Ryan 385 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,960 was made with me doing collage art, but Alan Barra from Gallant 386 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,360 Knight wanted to use Simone Tamita artwork. 387 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:17,680 So this book will be strictly with all Simone Tamita's artwork 388 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:23,080 and with all my layout as well. Yeah, it's he has an awesome 389 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,600 style. Yeah, yeah, I, I, I'm excited 390 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,040 for it and it is system neutral, but like there are mechanics 391 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,800 for, for, like you said, a couple of other games. 392 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,880 Why did you pick Troika Merkborg? 393 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,880 Well obviously Hell Night Warp Land are yours, but watch Big 394 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,520 Troika and Merkborg specifically for for this as well. 395 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,400 I, I love those games. I love the premise behind those 396 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,360 settings. I think they are very colorful 397 00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:49,520 settings and they are very different from all the rest. 398 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,440 So I wanted to produce like a kaleidoscope of options which 399 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,800 you can play and use for those settings, but you can pretty 400 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,440 much adjust it to your favorite setting. 401 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,640 I mean, you can play Mothership if you like with this, with this 402 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,960 game. Yeah, well, yeah, I always 403 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,680 forget you have a like a Cthulhu dark mothership hack too, that I 404 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,840 want to go over at some point. That's really, really fun, 405 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:11,600 Hunter. I don't. 406 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,200 Know if you've seen it, it's. Dark I. 407 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,360 Haven't seen that. Yeah, it's, it's Fox. 408 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:16,280 It's really good. I like it. 409 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,240 Yeah. There is also an alien hack, 410 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,160 also an alien dark hack, which is also quite using that same 411 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,600 system, but the system is inspired by Graham Walmsley, 412 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,640 Tulu Katulu Dark, would you say? An amazing book. 413 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,200 Amazing book. An amazing book. 414 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,920 Yeah, really great. I mean, I'm a I'm a huge trophy 415 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,480 dark fan and that uses a lot of Cthulhu Dark as well. 416 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,280 So Cthulhu Dark is definitely something we we choose to do 417 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,200 that at some point, but maybe, maybe we'll get to it in creepy 418 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,560 season again. But so you're doing the project 419 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,200 I love, I love Trophy Dark also. It's very. 420 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,320 Very good, such a good game. Trophy dark is. 421 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,840 One of my favorite games period. But you're doing this project 422 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,680 with Alan Barr from Gallant Knight. 423 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,280 So you said when you first started getting into it, Alan 424 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,880 was really was there for you. How did the, I guess, how did 425 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,480 the relationship with you and him kind of start and like how 426 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,720 did it get to this point now where you're doing this project 427 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,840 with him on back cricket? Well, at the beginnings I 428 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,480 connected with him, it was more or a cry of help from my part 429 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,280 because I was a newcomer and I have trouble with my original 430 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,120 printer. I had some trouble so he 431 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:31,200 recommended me his own printer that they were very 432 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,160 professional. So he really helped me out 433 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,680 finding the right printer for my work. 434 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,960 I'm very satisfied with these guys, with the quality of the 435 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,400 books they make. So yeah, he was, he has been 436 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,560 really helpful. He's actually really helpful 437 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,960 with every creator. So he's a really a really good 438 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,280 force of a force of good in the industry. 439 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,800 Yeah, yeah, I mean Alex T from Black Oath, I know does a lot of 440 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,120 a lot of work with him and and and then he's a good friend of 441 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:03,520 ours too. We got we we should just talk to 442 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:04,880 Alan at some point. I remember. 443 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,600 So I love a lot of Alan's stuff. I have a lot of Gallant Knight 444 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,920 stuff. I have that blue box is actually 445 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,200 although, but gosh, she has this one and it's I don't know why 446 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,280 it's like one of my favorite ones because it's just so funny 447 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,680 when you look at all the stuff that that Allen and Galenite has 448 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,000 done, you see, like the Baywatch RPG basically, and that one 449 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,680 always cracks me up so hard. We'll have to do that one in the 450 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,760 summer. But but the the spread of of 451 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:33,240 games that he does styles systems and and on top of that, 452 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,560 help the amount of people that you'll see a project like all 453 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,840 that's really cool. There's like, oh, gallon Knights 454 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,880 working on it too, or Gallon Knights doing this part of it or 455 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,600 that. It's really awesome to see them 456 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,520 putting so much work and effort into into the industry. 457 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:52,080 And as far as what what Gallant Knight is doing for Lords of 458 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,920 Death and Illusion, was he like doing like project management or 459 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,800 like what what? What exactly is his role in in 460 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,000 this project? He's he's doing the Barker Kid 461 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,640 campaign, They are doing the Barker Kid campaign and they are 462 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,120 doing the distribution of the game. 463 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,600 They also were the he's the one that hired the the artist as 464 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,200 well. Gotcha. 465 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,880 Very cool. And if I ever start making 466 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,320 stuff, I got to find somebody that will just like, I not find 467 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,640 somebody, pay somebody that will just do all of that stuff for 468 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,720 me. Because having people in the 469 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,320 industry that have that kind of knowledge has got to be like 1/2 470 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,760 production. Also, I forgot to mention 471 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,440 production. Yeah. 472 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:37,640 Which is very important because yeah, it's AI. 473 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,000 Think that right in the game it's only like 10% of the work. 474 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,480 Yeah, it does seem like, you know, through our hundreds of 475 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,800 episodes and talking to people, it seems like, yeah, the the 476 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,040 actual production and distribution of the game is such 477 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,200 a massive and running the backer kid, their Kickstarter, such a 478 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,640 massive portion of it, a lot of it has to be handled fairly 479 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,840 delicately as well. And you know, it seems like a 480 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,600 lot. Can burn you out. 481 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,600 Yeah, I'm, I'm very impressed with anyone who puts out any 482 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,200 amount of projects, even a single one so. 483 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,120 Yeah, that's why it's so great that he manages to do so much. 484 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,440 Yeah. Must be incredibly, but he's 485 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,360 incredibly focused and disciplined. 486 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:23,320 What's that like? Yeah, it must be nice. 487 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,400 So, so Lords in Death Illusion, it's got four days left on it. 488 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,400 It's going to be coming out relatively quickly. 489 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,200 Is this a Zine that is being like printed and distributed or 490 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,760 is this coming through drive through RPG? 491 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,160 Like, how is that actually getting into people's hands? 492 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,280 It's going to be printed offset printed. 493 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,160 Gotcha, nice. And then you said there's only 494 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,480 like 37 pages. So it's it's Zine style, right? 495 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,040 We're not hitting perfect bound or anything. 496 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,080 Probably will be 30 pages and there is a a stretch goal that 497 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,080 they it will include cards. One card for the illusion and 498 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,080 the other card for the depth that that's what the players 499 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,280 need to choose. These are the two cards, so this 500 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,520 is the decision you have to make against the Storyteller of that 501 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,240 turn. Yeah, I am. 502 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,720 Gosh, I'm so excited, not only just for this game, but like 503 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,960 every time I look at any things you do, I'm like, man, we should 504 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:29,280 just start like a hell night game, dude. 505 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,840 Like that's, that's what we should be doing right now. 506 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,280 I'll play a hell night. Game dude, I would play a Hell 507 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,800 Night game in a heartbeat. Beyond Lords of Death Illusion, 508 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,840 though, I have you, I know you sent it to me and I know the 509 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,960 page is up for like possibly like the next project. 510 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,160 Is that something that you are talking about like the the the 511 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,080 thing that's up on Kickstarter now or are you waiting to talk 512 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,520 about that a little bit? Regarding what? 513 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:54,520 Right. Sorry I lost you. 514 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,040 Your next project that's out on Kickstarter, I don't want to say 515 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:02,480 the name of it unless yes. Hell World, Hell World, Hell 516 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:09,400 World Earth is a setting that was created by Patrick Austin 517 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,560 Duribash and he's an amazing illustrator. 518 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,840 He's like a mixed between I am Miller and Warhammer 40,000. 519 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,240 He's a really amazing artist. I found his work and I 520 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,120 immediately, immediately approached him to create the 521 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,720 game based on that setting and on his artwork and his 522 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,800 character. He made about 80 characters, 80 523 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,560 illustrate illustrations already. 524 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,640 He's a really, really amazing emerging artist. 525 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,840 Really stoked about creating. This is going to be a war game 526 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:54,880 with with 2D cardboard figures. Oh. 527 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,160 Yeah, let me show you the photo vibes. 528 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,640 Yeah. Yeah, something like this. 529 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,720 Oh nice. Awesome. 530 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,200 Holy shit. Really, really something I think 531 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:15,520 that is I'm really happy about showing this because I, I want 532 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:20,720 to, I want to concentrate on traditional artists and this guy 533 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:28,320 works with, with ink in the very style and everyone, everyone's 534 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,240 doing their 3D printing minis for war games. 535 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,680 So I wanted something exactly the opposite, different. 536 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,360 Yeah, yeah, I sorry for those in podcast land. 537 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,720 You didn't get to see the the the the little 2D, the little 2D 538 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:45,720 minis go what? What? 539 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,120 Watch on YouTube and then you can see the preview. 540 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,600 But but that's great. Listen, I've I've like I've 541 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,040 liked skirmish games for a long time. 542 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,480 We're forbidden some fans here on the show, obviously, but I've 543 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,200 been getting deeper into into like skirmish games and war 544 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,240 games, and I just don't have the fucking space for all the minis. 545 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,320 You know, like I really love when games have either like 546 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,160 little meatballs or especially like just the the cardboard 547 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,240 pieces exactly because you can have 1000 of those in a stack 548 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,720 this big versus 1000 and need a whole room for them. 549 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,400 So it's really nice to have that. 550 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,400 And I can only imagine like cost, cost wise, cost efficiency 551 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,920 wise is going to be a lot easier to, to produce those than it 552 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,240 would be to like try to get some type of mini produced on top of 553 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,040 easier to buy. Absolutely, much easier and you 554 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,960 can fit everything in just a box and you you have 3 factions. 555 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,520 Amazing factions. So yeah, the game is going to be 556 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:39,960 incredible. Very brutal. 557 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:46,240 The setting has is very well written by him, so I'm stoked 558 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,120 about presenting it. It's really something else very 559 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:54,400 different, very a focus on ultra violence and it's incredible 560 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,240 because Patrick is such a gentle guy and such a mild and kind guy 561 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,120 makes this is like, it's incredible. 562 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,840 I'm very different with what I'm used to doing. 563 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,120 Because it's a, because it's a war game, or because the setting 564 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:13,200 sounds like something you can do? 565 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,320 Because it's a war, because it's a war game and because it's also 566 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,640 like a post apocalyptic futuristic mayhem thing. 567 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:28,000 And sometimes it's it's when when when stuff is all is too 568 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,720 oriented towards violence or or brutality. 569 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,680 Maybe you you can get misguided and think there is no content or 570 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,400 substance behind it, but in this case it has something else. 571 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,720 No, there is like a statement behind it. 572 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:48,720 So cool, I really think. So, so as far as the actual 573 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,280 setting itself, you're saying this is like like like are there 574 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,400 any like movie or book touchstones that you're talking 575 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,480 about? Because you're saying it's like, 576 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,640 is it like future post dystopian apocalypse or? 577 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,240 It's so far away in the future. It's like a people merge with 578 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,880 shrooms and with demons and factions emerge from that, from 579 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,800 all that chaotic. It's like the third after the 580 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,960 Third World War. And the only sense in that 581 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,679 carnage is fighting each other because they want to do that. 582 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,199 And humanity is just plays only a small role in in there. 583 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,719 They are like, they are like trying to survive in that 584 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,719 setting where everything is fucked up. 585 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,360 Well, listen, if you could describe my perfect game, I 586 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:39,400 think you just might have done it. 587 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,239 So I'm definitely excited for this one. 588 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,120 Like if you like God, my, my dumb little edge Lord Hart is so 589 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,520 stupid. But I just, I love this stuff 590 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,199 and I'm I'm really excited. And obviously if you're working 591 00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:52,800 on the project, I mean there's going to be like a we've talked 592 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,679 about over and over again, like you don't have ask anything. 593 00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:59,120 You, you double ass everything, everything that you do is 594 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,600 there's a soundtrack and there's this hand on art, this focus on 595 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,200 traditional art like you said, with the ink and stuff like 596 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,240 that. We are. 597 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,800 We are already working on a death metal album for it, so 598 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,520 there's going to be a death metal album collaboration with. 599 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,440 And that's exactly my point. You're like, Oh no, we already 600 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,560 have an album going for it too. Like that's fantastic. 601 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:26,000 I mean, the amount of work and, and, and attention to the vibes 602 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,240 that you put into your work is one of the reasons that we love 603 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:33,840 your work so much. And not only seeing like again, 604 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,280 the new version of Warplane, which I'm excited to see 605 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,160 potentially an expansion for Warplane coming out and these 606 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:45,040 two projects on top of it. Are you like, like how busy are 607 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,160 you right now? You got like 3 projects going 608 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:48,960 right now, are you? But are you just like humming 609 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,360 along? Is it just like this is where 610 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,080 you want to be like having this much work going on at one time? 611 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,360 Like, how does it, how does it feel to be kind of like this 612 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,160 deep in, in so many different things? 613 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,920 I think it feels very chaotic. This is pretty much the only 614 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,400 thing I do. It works. 615 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,360 I managed to live from it from the for the last three years. 616 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,320 I think that what I tried to do, as I said, I tried to do what 617 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:21,680 inspires me and what drives me. So that's also a problem because 618 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,000 projects sometimes stuck up. So I need to try to be as 619 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,560 organized as possible and make like a queue of of projects. 620 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:34,120 Also, it helps me a lot to stretch for collaborations like 621 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,800 like in the case for, for lots of evolution. 622 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,400 It helps me out to do that. So I'm looking forward to do 623 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,800 that in order to finish the projects in a more orderly 624 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,200 manner. So that's what what I'm aiming 625 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,280 to do. But I'm super happy with it. 626 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,960 I'm doing what makes me happy, what, what I love doing. 627 00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:02,960 And I'm pretty happy with, with how it ends up looking so far. 628 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,640 So I, I, for me, it's like they are my little children. 629 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,240 Every book is like a little children. 630 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:15,040 They I have no preferences. Yeah, I mean, like you said, 631 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,040 like they're all fantastic. And I mean, but I will say hell 632 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,320 night, hell night for me. I love all your. 633 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,840 Work with hell night dude it. Just it it, it just hums so 634 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,320 well, like it just takes everything to 11 with everything 635 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,880 that you've done. Like, I don't know, I just feel 636 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,560 like everything else is like fantastic, but something for me 637 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,840 about the way that all aspects of that game kind of like land 638 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,360 out at the exact same spot just like hits. 639 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,200 The first time I read it, I was like blown away. 640 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,120 And Hunter was like, we'll, we'll do some like 80 stuff, 641 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,240 whatever. And then we both read it And 642 00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:48,400 when we both like I remember point, we look at each other and 643 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,120 go, oh, like this, this is a game. 644 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,280 Like this is a really, this is a game, you know? 645 00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:56,640 I'm not the biggest 80s guy, but I think that, I mean, I think 646 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,000 hell might just it was, it worked so well and it was so 647 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,640 like, it's just a game. You read that you're just like, 648 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,720 OK, well, we need to play this like we have to play this, you 649 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:08,560 know? Well, it's, I think it's a, it's 650 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,800 a very easy game to jump into because also there's such an 651 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:18,240 amount of well, music, movies or whatever that just nailed the 652 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:21,520 concept. So it is quite easy to grasp it. 653 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,200 I think. I don't think there is something 654 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,040 similar or as similar that for me the most similarity game is 655 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:35,280 cult maybe, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I love cult too, 656 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,280 so. Yeah, like a modern horror. 657 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,840 I think that it has that splatter punk. 658 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,600 Yeah, yeah. Gosh, it's good. 659 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,640 And then you said so. So you said there may be well, 660 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,040 like next year, we're talking about like a warp land 661 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:53,760 expansion. Is that something that's like 662 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,680 even? Is that just a thought or is 663 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,120 there some work being put into that already? 664 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,760 No, no. And it's pretty, pretty much 665 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,880 written. It's really written that 666 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,640 expansion. So I just need to have the time 667 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,880 to lay it out. I have some artwork. 668 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:14,040 I have like a whole. I have two new regions that 669 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,640 yeah, I'm very stoked because the characters are going to be 670 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,880 amazing. It's really, it's really going 671 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,200 to add a lot of dimensionality to the setting. 672 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,440 So is that is that the focus of the the project is supplemented 673 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,720 just like kind of expands the world itself and then all the 674 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:37,280 things that fill that in? Yes, expanding the world itself 675 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:42,080 and bringing more lore into it and maybe some rules tweaking, 676 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,840 but I don't like to deal with mechanics so much. 677 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,200 It for me, it's the hassle to write about mechanics. 678 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,760 I'm not very good at it. And maybe that's why I was not 679 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,200 as good. I think that I had, I was very 680 00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:00,080 lucky with Helen because I, I consulted a few colleagues, so 681 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,160 they helped me develop it as as good as I could. 682 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,760 But I don't like writing about mechanics. 683 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,160 I I just like writing about the setting and the world and 684 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,760 creating all the aesthetic, but and the concept. 685 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:15,680 And I really do a lot of digging and research and investigate. 686 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,040 Which other settings try to touch what what I'm aiming at? 687 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,520 Well, for example, I, I'm I'm a very big fan of mothership. 688 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,680 I would love to do mothership and I maybe, but the problem is 689 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:35,440 that mothership is already done. So I wouldn't be able to do it 690 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:37,920 to add something different to it. 691 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,040 It will take me a lot of work to do it. 692 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,720 I have an idea to do something in space already dude. 693 00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:45,680 I would. Love. 694 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,240 I would love a mother ship adventure or mother ship module 695 00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:51,440 written by you. I think that would be so 696 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,000 awesome. I would love to see that. 697 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,520 But hopefully someday, maybe. Yeah, I'll, I'll watch out and 698 00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,840 hope for it because I would absolutely back that. 699 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:01,320 I would be super stoked on it it. 700 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:07,120 It will probably, it will probably be like because New 701 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,880 York City award and I are tied up from Italy. 702 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,880 Which is great. I love it so good. 703 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,800 Yeah. So and so we what what I what I 704 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,240 will do for space, it will probably continue that. 705 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,560 Cool, yes. Yes. 706 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,360 Yeah. So we'll definitely continue 707 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,760 that, yeah. So then I guess my question 708 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,240 then, because you said you're, because I'm, I'm a big mechanics 709 00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:32,000 guy. I love mechanics. 710 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,200 I love reading other people's like lore and stuff like that 711 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,640 come up on my own. But like, I really like that's 712 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,680 what gets me going is like, you know, D6 probabilities and stuff 713 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,320 like that. But if you're if you're like, 714 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,360 I'm not really a big mechanics guy, why do you keep making 715 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,200 games like that's, I guess that's my question. 716 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:51,800 Like you keep, I guess the system kind of again, like 717 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:53,440 carries through a lot of the games. 718 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,400 But have you like, have you written a bunch of just like 719 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,280 adventures for other games or anything like that? 720 00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,720 Or do you have any plans for that? 721 00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:04,080 Or do you keep planning to like just build these worlds with 722 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,440 your system and expanding to be able to build the lore for that? 723 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:11,280 I think that at the moment I'm planning to develop, develop the 724 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,760 world's, the existing worlds I have and also, yeah, maybe 725 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,480 expand them with another spin off from those worlds. 726 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,400 I have a post apocalyptic world already that is going to be a 727 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,400 continuation of neurosity that's going to be called Meltdown and 728 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,160 and then well, the one in space is going to be called Starlight. 729 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:37,440 So there are all settings that are very connected with with the 730 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,240 previous one. It's like a four story arc, 731 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,840 mainly about that setting. I also love systems and 732 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,720 mechanics. I I love creating them and I 733 00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:52,120 love reading about them. I just don't like writing them. 734 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,280 I gotcha, yeah. And that's why, and that's why 735 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,880 we get worlds of Karaga, right? Like these are your worlds. 736 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:03,080 Like this is, especially since so many of them are going to be 737 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,560 set in the same universe basically. 738 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,800 It's a fancy, a fancy name for the, for what I do. 739 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,400 But again, I call the words of kilo. 740 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:16,000 But I, I really emphasize that to me those words are, are, are 741 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,440 a collaborative effort between me and the players. 742 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,320 So which table each session, they will create their own 743 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,840 versions of those worlds. So that's why I, I am very 744 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:32,840 conscious about leaving a lot of space for them to, to play with 745 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,520 it and, and, and, and not their own feel and their own thoughts 746 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,760 about the way things should be in that world. 747 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:47,800 I think that for, for me, that idea came from, well, I used to 748 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,720 study literature and that idea came from Raymond Carver, who's 749 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:59,600 a great short fiction writer. And he always, like, developed a 750 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,560 style in which you are. He lived a lot of space for 751 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,160 imagination. You know that you can fill the 752 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:11,080 gaps of the plot yourself. And it creates an enriching 753 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,280 experience. And that's what I want. 754 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,400 That's what I do with my work. Yeah, I mean, you do and you do 755 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,320 it very, very well. Like it's and again, I mean, I'm 756 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,320 just going to keep I'm just going to keep like glazing 757 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,280 helmet right now. But like, you know, especially 758 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,520 when reading that book, like there's not like the amount of 759 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,880 things where like you, you give this seed or you have this like 760 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,080 list or whatever. And the way that when listening 761 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,160 to the music and going through the book and seeing the art, the 762 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,960 way that your mind just like blows up for the possibilities 763 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,040 that come from like this, like 5 lines you wrote in it. 764 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,920 It's crazy. You know, when we were going 765 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,520 through, I just remember like going through combinations of 766 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,240 like some of the lists and some of the character stuff and just 767 00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:56,000 imagining like entire campaign spinning off of like these tiny 768 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,360 little things that you put in and and it's it's. 769 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,800 Yes, I love plot seeds. I I love, I love tables. 770 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,480 I love random plot generators. I love that. 771 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,720 For me, it's about that. Not about making a whole 772 00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:15,040 adventure, but about igniting that creative fire in the 773 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:16,920 reader. For me, it's about that. 774 00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:20,080 That's what I love about reading other people's book. 775 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:22,720 Yeah, yeah. I mean same, same for us. 776 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,200 That's why we've done it 100. And 80 times or whatever we're 777 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:26,520 doing, yeah, yeah. So. 778 00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:30,680 I know this is such like a random side tangent that I could 779 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,720 have talked about forever ago, but the forbidden book of 780 00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:36,280 tangible realities? That little red book that came 781 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,160 with war planned? Honestly, I have to say it's one 782 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,640 of my favorite things ever. I wish more games like came with 783 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,920 that because it's basically like it's basically a quick start for 784 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,600 the rules, but also for like the lore. 785 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,440 Like it's a really easy flip through. 786 00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:52,440 And if you don't want to have like the entire thing at your 787 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,480 table, like having that little book right there, it makes it so 788 00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:01,400 easy to to to. Like a statement for the for the 789 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,080 system, Yes, but it also was like a bit. 790 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,760 It has some songs that it does not have the main book. 791 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,040 It has some riddles, some small Easter eggs. 792 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,160 Yeah. Are we, are we going to see any 793 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,800 more forbidden books of tangible reality for any of the other 794 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,120 things, or is that just a warplane kind of thing? 795 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,760 If the production costs allow it because it it's really becoming 796 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,320 really expensive. I mean, since I started, the 797 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:32,560 prices keep going up and I need to make sure that it does not 798 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,680 get prohibitively expensive for people because I know that 799 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,680 everyone's on a tight budget and buying a lot of books like 800 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:41,920 yourself. So everyone's like, cluttered 801 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,080 with books. So I need to make sure that what 802 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:50,200 I do it's a good balance between quality and price, Yeah. 803 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,280 Very fair, yeah. It's also a challenge. 804 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,440 If it were up to me, I would fit it with a with little books and 805 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,320 posters and lots of stuff, but I rather concentrate on this. 806 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,560 Is just capitalism limiting art again you? 807 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,080 Know yeah which. Come on. 808 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,880 Yeah, but at the same time a community back in your project 809 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,760 directly. So I cannot complain that this 810 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:14,440 is. Fair. 811 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,960 But I mean, even even within the context of how like exactly what 812 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:19,880 you're talking about, like it came with a poster and it came 813 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,840 with a little GM screen. And when you go, when you flip 814 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,680 to the back of the book, there's like what, like 8 or 10 spreads 815 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,120 that are just like pure art from like all these fantastic 816 00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:28,720 artists. Like you still find a way to, 817 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,320 to, to put that into, into all of your things, which is like as 818 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:37,440 a consumer of games, it, it's great to see and, and great to 819 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:38,600 see every time you put something out. 820 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,040 We managed, we managed to include that Johann know the 821 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,360 artwork in Black Rainbow, so I'm very happy about it. 822 00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,760 It's a great piece. It's the last page of the book. 823 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,320 I love that piece. I saw that piece. 824 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,640 I said this, I want this piece for Black Rainbow, so we managed 825 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,080 to do it. That's awesome and and because I 826 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,560 know I remember the the there's a blue and red spread in Hell 827 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,560 Night too, which is Johann in near the back of the book as 828 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,760 well. Of a dragon. 829 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,600 A dragon. Yeah, the dragon play a 830 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,720 interesting part in Hellen because it's like on the origins 831 00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:16,320 of hell. They were the original dwellers 832 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,800 of hell until the demons came and they expelled the Dragons. 833 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,920 And Black Rainbow is going to expand a bit on that because 834 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,520 some of those Dragons ended up on on Earth. 835 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:29,840 Yeah, and. People. 836 00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:33,360 Yeah, and then take acid and then we'll see what happens. 837 00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:38,320 Right yeah, with with the hell Dragons. 838 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:43,760 Yeah, I mean, again, like, I don't know, like it's it's I'm 839 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,400 never going to get over how much for me specifically. 840 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:51,760 Like your work speaks to the the things that I enjoy, like the 841 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,880 it's kind of like dark with a, with a edge of yeah, like a 842 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,440 little bit of humor to it. And, and the even the way that 843 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,160 the poster and collage artwork, I mean, it's you have such a 844 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,720 distinct style and it's one that speaks directly to me. 845 00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:07,920 And it's the reason that I'm going to be a fan of yours for 846 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,160 as long as you're. Making stuff, you're going to 847 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:15,520 make me cry now. Yeah, I I agree. 848 00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:18,920 That headlight in particular was the one that I tried to develop 849 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:24,200 my sense of humor in that after neurosity, which is like bomb 850 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,160 chilling for me. It's horrifying. 851 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,640 I I get goosebumps when when I think of neurosity. 852 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:32,920 It's like my nightmare to become true. 853 00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:37,480 Yeah, it's like a very big opposite from that. 854 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,520 Yeah, but again, still still finding a way to make it all fit 855 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,280 together in into into your work and make it all seem like 856 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:45,720 there's a through line through all of it, which is really 857 00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:51,960 fantastic to see. So gosh, I think I think we kind 858 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:53,640 of hit just about everything is there. 859 00:49:53,640 --> 00:50:00,720 So Lords of Death Illusion, just in case anybody is on the fence 860 00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:04,920 about backing it, do me a favor and say like one last pitch for 861 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,880 those people that like, if someone is thinking about 862 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,000 backing Lords of a Death Illusion, like why should they? 863 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,200 What, what if they want to play AGM, less easy going game with a 864 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:22,120 very flexible system. And I mean, my play testers, I, 865 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,080 I have a like a little club in my house every Friday when 866 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,880 people come over and most of them, half of them at least they 867 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,160 are not from the role-playing game community. 868 00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:38,800 So they just jump here and they yeah, it's really we had a 869 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:43,480 success with people coming over and so they we play test, we 870 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:48,680 play tested the game with a lot of non RPG people and it works. 871 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:53,320 They they keep coming. So I absolutely recommend it if 872 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,280 you are a burnout GM as well and I. 873 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,360 Am getting a little burnt out actually so. 874 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,520 Most of the half of them are all. 875 00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,160 I burned out years ago and that's why I haven't run 876 00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:10,520 anything in like 2 years. But but yeah, but hey, Gabriel 877 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:12,880 Lord's death illusion is on back cricket right now. 878 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,240 I'm going to make sure that the links are down below in all of 879 00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:18,120 where it's the Internet, people know where they are. 880 00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,360 But for people that are looking for your older projects or for 881 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,400 everything we talked about today, Neurocity, Warp Land, 882 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:27,840 Hell Night, where can people find all of those things that 883 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:28,720 they're looking for them right now? 884 00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,480 Well, they can. They can if they are old school 885 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,880 like me and they still use Facebook, which is unlikely, 886 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:40,160 they can join my Facebook group, Worlds of Kiroga, or if not, 887 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,280 they can find my page, my official page, 888 00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,880 www.gabrielkiroga.com. That's our WordPress. 889 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,480 And they can also add me at my Instagram. 890 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,600 That's also a really Kiroga, Yeah. 891 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,400 I don't think. I'm not sure if Neurocity is 892 00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,880 still in print, but I'm pretty sure Hell Knight and Warp Land 893 00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,320 are both currently available for printing Exalted Funeral as 894 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,600 well, right? They can find neurocity in 895 00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,840 exalted funeral as well. All my nice in exalted funeral, 896 00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:09,680 yes. Cool. 897 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,880 Nice. Awesome, I just got to say it's 898 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,520 been too long. We've been chatting for a while. 899 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,320 Finally got a chance to actually have you come on the show and 900 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:21,640 it's been fantastic to talk to you. 901 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,000 So I just want to say we really appreciate you being here and 902 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,160 and us letting us, you know, pick your brain and everything 903 00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:27,760 for for, for these games that we've enjoyed. 904 00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,760 I really appreciate also you doing guys this. 905 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,440 I think that's very important for the community, the work you 906 00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,680 do. So thank you for having me. 907 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:38,760 Hopefully we can do it again sometime. 908 00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,520 Thank you, We definitely should, especially after next couple 909 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:42,960 things come out. We'd love to have you back. 910 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,440 Yeah, absolutely. All right. 911 00:52:45,720 --> 00:52:47,480 All right, So that's us for today. 912 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,440 So again, Gabriel, thank you so much and we will talk to all of 913 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:51,520 you later. Bye.