1 00:00:15,270 --> 00:00:17,430 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll Podcast. 2 00:00:17,430 --> 00:00:20,990 My name is Ryan and with us we have a couple of returning 3 00:00:20,990 --> 00:00:22,950 guests. We have Emily and Lucas. 4 00:00:22,950 --> 00:00:27,630 How are you both doing today? Hello I'm great I'm a zip file 5 00:00:27,630 --> 00:00:31,560 full of PDFs or whatever. Whatever. 6 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:33,400 Whatever, Hunter would have said. 7 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,920 I'm I'm that. Oh, gotcha. 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,360 You're doing. That's a good one too, Hunter. 9 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:44,280 Hunter's gonna end up stealing that one, but good you guys are. 10 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:49,360 You've been here before, which is great, and you're back for 11 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,920 those that don't know or haven't seen the previous episode. 12 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:54,560 And Hunter's not here to go look that number up for me, so I'm 13 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:59,840 not gonna do that. But who? 14 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:01,880 Who? Who are you guys and what might 15 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,599 people know you for here in the Teach RBG space? 16 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,240 Yeah, we're we're collectively graph bound press. 17 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,360 We are. If we're known for anything, I 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:22,640 guess it would be Precious Things, which was a tiny dragon 19 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:32,160 Zing quest game. Yeah, Precious things that would 20 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:37,800 have been Zen Quest 2024, which was kind of technically before 21 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:43,320 we officially formed grandfathered in like our first 22 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,040 partnership there together. But then since then, we've done 23 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:53,520 bonds between in partnership with Breitbart Games, which just 24 00:01:53,520 --> 00:02:00,520 got fulfilled recently. I love seeing who got which 25 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,480 notebooks. Like the sketchbooks. 26 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:03,880 Yeah. Oh, you. 27 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,000 Got the. Box of screws. 28 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,600 It's a well, it's a screw and a thimble and A and a paper clip 29 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,280 and and a Bobby pen. That one's got real goblin 30 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,600 energy. My favorite part, and I want 31 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,960 everyone to know this, is that all of the backers that got a 32 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:30,040 notebook from the Bonds Between Kickstarter, all of that art is 33 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,960 from the same collage that was used to lay out the game. 34 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,920 So like that butterfly is in the book. 35 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:50,400 It's on the solo rules page, I believe, which is page 30 four. 36 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,200 No, it's a right page. So it's it's odd. 37 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,440 So it's 35. Let's say it's 35. 38 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,400 Getting there though, I think. No, wait, this was so. 39 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,160 Oh, no, it's got to be. It's got to be in the. 50s. 40 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,880 No, it's got to be in the 50s because it's a 60 page book and 41 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,080 I'm thinking of Gladys and Layout, so it's got to be like 42 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:15,840 57. 57. Really close to the end. 43 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,920 You're close. It's 54. 44 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,920 Is it before you play by post? Oh, and it's on the left? 45 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:22,720 Yeah. Or it's on the Yeah, it's a. 46 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,320 Solo mode though, it is exactly where you said it was. 47 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:26,920 Good job. Boom, Look at that for those in 48 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:32,000 podcast land. I'm holding up the Journal slash 49 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,560 sketchbookie situation from Bonds Between with the page, 50 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,960 which is phase 54 from Bonds Between. 51 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,560 But yeah, I will say I know you guys from precious things. 52 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,040 I remember seeing the sticker pack on Itch and that's when I 53 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,920 first this is all episode 188, by the way. 54 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:49,840 I did go oh. Great. 55 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,200 Which is only like 6 months ago because we did jump from 200 to 56 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,080 like 268 in in episode to episode 1 fell swoop. 57 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:06,120 But but yeah, check out 188 for the the before of bonds between 58 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,240 Yeah, but but now we're. In the midst of making that game 59 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:11,840 work. Yeah, Yeah. 60 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,720 Well, we're in the after. It's in my hands, which is nice 61 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,200 and it looks great. I love a square book. 62 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,279 I mean, anything that's a different format that's not like 63 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,520 an A5Z and is going to stick out on the shelf. 64 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,120 So this definitely will. But how is this? 65 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,320 How was it's really fun. We've only got to do this a 66 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:32,880 couple of times, I think. I would say. 67 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:38,520 I would say maybe like one hand or less where we talk about a 68 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,920 game and then either get to review it later or even less 69 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,320 common, get to talk to the people who made it later. 70 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,520 So, you know, since episode 188, how did this go? 71 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,480 How was fulfilling? How was running the Kickstarter 72 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,320 first and then fulfilling bonds between? 73 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,480 Oh boy. Good. 74 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:07,280 Like overall good, but it is a Kickstarter so. 75 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,680 I, I say, oh boy, because that was like, you know, that was, 76 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,600 that was two months of work and it's all new and all strange and 77 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,640 No2 Kickstarters are alike, I think. 78 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,280 But we had, we had some really great partners on that and it, 79 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,000 it turned out great. I, I had a great experience. 80 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,680 It was really cool seeing how people reacted to this. 81 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,080 Like very different kind of mechanic. 82 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,880 We like bonds between is an original system based entirely 83 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:42,640 on collage out of playing cards. So I guess if I would introduce 84 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,560 myself as anything, I'd be a deck of playing cards covered in 85 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,520 stickers. I'm I'm comfortable with that. 86 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,480 And yeah, like, it's like we thought it would work. 87 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,760 And then we gave it to people and they're like, this was 88 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,480 amazing. And we're like, oh, it did work. 89 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,680 Yeah, I I don't know how how often that Zine quest projects 90 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,520 like have time to play tennis. It's like depending on when you 91 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,200 kind of came up with that idea, but the the concept was based 92 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,800 around something we were pretty sure made sense. 93 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,120 But the amount of time, you know, between the four creators 94 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:25,200 that we had to like test out the mechanics and stuff and it was 95 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:27,880 kind of vibed by be in a good way. 96 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,880 So it's good to see that people like are getting out of it. 97 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,800 This is sort of authorial intent, but getting out of it, 98 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,280 what we put into it. Obviously they're going to get 99 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:45,840 other stuff too, but I think it was stuff from TTRPG kids who is 100 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:52,800 who is saying that they they like the brakes of like stop and 101 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:58,640 make art and that the collaging was really easy to get into, but 102 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,560 it still felt like creating something. 103 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,080 And I think that's that was one of my my intents was like, I 104 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,680 want people to be able to be like, oh, I am making like I'm 105 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,560 already doing it. I'm like I've been tricked into 106 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:14,920 doing art by a game and I like it so. 107 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,600 And I think collage is good at that. 108 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:21,360 That like lowering the bar of people's like stress of want to 109 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,840 create something, but it has to be like of a certain caliber and 110 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:30,000 collage is messy and it's supposed to be so it helps with 111 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,080 that. Well, yeah, a lot of people are 112 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:33,720 like, I don't do art, I can't draw. 113 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,200 And it's like, hey, anyone can draw. 114 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,360 Like very few people just are born with the innate ability to 115 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,680 like make masterpieces. It's it's a lot of it is the the 116 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,160 time you put into it. Yeah. 117 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,560 But like collage is complete everything. 118 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:48,960 It's like, I think this picture is cool. 119 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,800 I will cut this picture out. It doesn't matter if I like in 120 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:52,920 and out of the lines or whatever. 121 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,680 And then I just slap it on something and boom, I made a 122 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,160 thing. So that's great. 123 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:02,800 And yeah, as Inquest is very interesting, kind of like mix of 124 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,120 stuff because the number of projects that I'm like I've been 125 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,200 working on this forever versus probably a much bigger version 126 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,600 of I had this idea a week ago. And I launched it. 127 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,440 For scene Quest is is probably a bigger group of people. 128 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:22,200 So yeah, yeah, definitely. What did you mean by what do you 129 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,520 mean by Arthurial? You're saying Arthurial In my 130 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,120 head, I'm like Arthurian. That's what we're getting into 131 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:29,960 later. Yeah. 132 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,919 Yeah. Yeah, authorial intent is like 133 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:37,880 the idea that I think it's more of like a novel, like a fiction 134 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,280 kind of writing thing. But where like, like the, okay, 135 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,040 imagine you're an English class teacher is like, what did the 136 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,840 author mean by this? Like, is this a metaphor? 137 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,800 Is this like a, you know, and you're like interpreting it? 138 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,080 And I think the authorial intent is like, did the author really 139 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,920 mean that, or does it matter what the author meant? 140 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,040 Is it only matter what the reader gets out of something? 141 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,880 It's like an argument that I have scratched the surface. 142 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,440 Like a like a death of the author, kind of. 143 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:12,680 Yeah, I think that I was gonna say, I think Sam's, Sam's book 144 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:14,880 Death of the Author is kind of about that. 145 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:16,840 Yeah. Well, I mean, it literally is 146 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,760 called the thing that is. Yeah, I'm always curious with 147 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:27,640 with that that because I'm not AI don't subscribe to depth of 148 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,000 the author in regards to TRP GS because I think games are made 149 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,480 with intent versus literature and and depth of the author was 150 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:42,680 a a supposition or something like it was for literature. 151 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:45,360 It's supposed to like that's where it derives. 152 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:50,040 And I'm, I'm always curious like where the when did it jump into 153 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,280 TGR produced for some reason where like you make a game in 154 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:59,200 order to do a thing and then these people were like then 155 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:00,320 death of the author comes in and. 156 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,360 Says you can't control. What you wanted it to do and 157 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:07,160 it's just like, well, I mean the the, the, the, the manual in my 158 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,480 car tells me very much what my car does. 159 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,240 I don't just get to say that it doesn't do the thing you. 160 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:13,720 Know what I? Mean. 161 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,040 So I'm always curious, like where people kind of land on 162 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,200 that line. Yeah, I see, I see some of that 163 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:26,480 with like homebrew, like people are going to take a system and 164 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,160 they're going to patch it to, to, to fit their individual 165 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,640 situations. So like in that sense, like can 166 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,400 you tell them what to do? Like, no, because they you're 167 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,560 not at the table. So they're, they're always free 168 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:44,440 enough that they can homebrew or add or, you know, make in moment 169 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,040 decisions and stuff like that. But I think with RPGs, like 170 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,880 especially I'll say like with the indie ones where it feels 171 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,760 like they're calling for specific stories, they're 172 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,000 helping you build kind of a specific experience. 173 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:04,120 It's really helpful to have the real intent there like in the 174 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:09,600 text so that you know, you're not on your own of like trying 175 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,760 to, you know, bring your party through this experience that 176 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,920 you've all set out to have together. 177 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,920 So I could see that it being more useful in in that case. 178 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,200 Yeah, well I I think 2 points to that one is like again back to 179 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,880 the car manual thing. Just because I put new rims on 180 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,400 my car and a new paint job and like. 181 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,840 Spoiler. It's still, it's still a car and 182 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,080 the car works the same way it does. 183 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:41,840 But also though, like, you know, you kind of need to know a rule 184 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:43,680 so you know how to break it, right? 185 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:50,600 So just because you add something in doesn't mean 186 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,320 knowing the author's intent allows you to alter it in a way 187 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,880 that makes sense for your table. So the intent is still present 188 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:01,560 versus the absolute absence of it. 189 00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:02,520 You know what I mean? That's. 190 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,080 Right. Like does it void your warranty 191 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,360 if you start changing things like you can? 192 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,720 Make it anything you want while still acknowledging what like 193 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,920 they meant by you can just be like, I totally understand what 194 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,720 you're trying to do here. I get it. 195 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,120 I'm just going to do something different. 196 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,960 It's very different than being like whatever you wanted to do 197 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,720 doesn't matter at all. You know what I mean? 198 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,400 Like I just feel like that's a that's and but I also feel like 199 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,520 that line waivers is thicker and thinner across different 200 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,960 spectrums of THRBGS like OSR out to story games. 201 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,240 I think that line will widen and narrow variously through the 202 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:36,680 very, you know, the different types. 203 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:38,800 So it's it's it's it's interesting. 204 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,840 I think in in like especially in the what lyric games and stuff. 205 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:47,080 I think people care much less about arthral intent and and and 206 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,520 death of the author and whatnot. But the first big tangent to the 207 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,480 show. Yeah, yeah. 208 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,120 So bonds between the Kickstarter was a Kickstarter. 209 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,200 I can imagine it was stressful. It went all right. 210 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,920 It's that, it's that week. It's like, like if you're a 211 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,440 theater kid, you know, the tech week is always rough and then 212 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,160 opening night is pretty rough. And then after that you're, 213 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,560 you're pretty much golden. So yeah, it it went fantastic. 214 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,560 Yeah, if I remember correctly it funded later like it wasn't a 215 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:23,120 quick. Yeah, we, we were, we were 216 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,080 concerned there like we didn't make that 48 hour window that's 217 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,480 like, you know, gold standard starters. 218 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,600 It's like a couple, it was a couple weeks in when we finally 219 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,960 cracked our funding goal and we're like, OK, this is this is 220 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,040 going to happen. I think people are going to run 221 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,560 into that a lot more though. I mean Kickstarter definitely 222 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:44,040 peaked post COVID. Like I think since like I'd say 223 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,680 probably early 2022, a lot of like funding numbers and have 224 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:49,600 been going down and funding links have been going up. 225 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,080 So I think a lot of the stuff that people really post COVID 226 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,840 were like got to do 24 hours, got to do 48 hours, got to do 227 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:58,800 this whole thing. I think that's changing 228 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,040 considerably across the board. And I think a lot of good 229 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:03,800 projects are going to take a little bit longer to fund now 230 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,600 just because, I mean, also, I mean in this economy like it's 231 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,240 hard to ask some money from anybody, so. 232 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,000 Yeah, we're keeping an eye on it for. 233 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,360 Sure bonds and between in this in this house I. 234 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,000 Mean I can do bonds, but the between is when it might be over 235 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,960 the edge for me. Just a bank breaker. 236 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,920 And then so then it funded and I mean you guys were on talking 237 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,520 about it, it funded and it's in my hand. 238 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,400 And it's according to YouTube, that was six months ago when the 239 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,640 episode came out. So that's for Kickstarter. 240 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,120 That's a really quick turn around to actually have in hand. 241 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,480 So how did how did actually like fulfilling and everything go? 242 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:49,320 Yeah, we did hit one writing stretch goal, which I, I think 243 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:55,440 we could have like we might have planned to write that additional 244 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,480 bit of writing in the in the front of the Kickstarter, but it 245 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,720 didn't, it didn't happen, you know, whatever. 246 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,440 But then so we made it a stretch goal because it was like 247 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,200 outlined and stuff. And then we hit that. 248 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,840 So then that writing did add a little bit of time. 249 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:17,440 And I mean, the four of us, John and Bri and and Lucas and I, I 250 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,840 think agreed that we would prefer to have like a much more 251 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,280 finished product before funding. Because if I mean, six months is 252 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:30,840 great and and but it was still like there was like a time of 253 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:37,840 what happened was I we wanted to get it out by Gen. 254 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,040 Con slash August. That's right. 255 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:46,680 And so we finished the writing and then the layout and the art 256 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,760 and stuff. And there was like, I'm trying 257 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,120 to remember what it was, but I think there was just a couple 258 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,880 pieces of art because Brie was really swamped and she was, she 259 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,000 was doing some like landscapes. There's some images in the book 260 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,600 of like seasonal landscapes, but she was finishing up 261 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,040 illustrations and she they Breitbart was also trying to 262 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,600 finish up their last Kickstarter by 4 bonds between also before 263 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,080 Gen. Con So and I was on that team 264 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,520 too for layout. So we were we were kind of 265 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,200 fulfilling 2 Kickstarters. Most of our team was doing that. 266 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,120 And then I told everybody that I was taking the month in July 267 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,000 off, which had been planned for a while. 268 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,640 But July, as you may know, is right before August. 269 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:41,360 And so finishing things by Gen. Con and printing obviously is 270 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,600 part of that. But having things to the printer 271 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,080 and back by Gen. Con suddenly became having 272 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,920 things layout and print ready by the beginning of July. 273 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:57,160 So it was a little hectic actually, mostly because of 274 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:58,400 that. So it was less like the 275 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,520 Kickstarter pressure, I don't think was there. 276 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,360 It was. It was our own timelines of 277 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,960 like, because if we hadn't made it to Gen. 278 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,240 Con, we would have made it shortly after, you know, it 279 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,920 would have been. Yeah. 280 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,280 Still mid August, I think that we we were getting that stuff 281 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:20,560 back from the printer. So yeah, me and my my vacation, 282 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,200 month long vacation, which I highly recommend if you can 283 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,640 obviously financially take a month. 284 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,320 Off. At least like, I don't know, I 285 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,200 feel like that's a call it a sabbatical. 286 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:39,320 Do it once every like 5 years, but in this account. 287 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:41,280 So that that put a little in this account. 288 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,000 Yeah, I know. Well, I'm speaking from a place 289 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:50,400 of privilege and freelancing, but yeah, that definitely put 290 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:56,320 put like a weird, I don't know, like I don't expect that to 291 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,280 happen, but I expect something like that I guess to happen with 292 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:04,600 every with every Kickstarter. But I I felt proud of like the 293 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,840 timeline of of it still and and getting it all out. 294 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,400 But it was good. It became a little bit longer. 295 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,800 I don't know if that is a mixture of writing or of like 296 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:19,720 the layout and the square format, but I think we had we 297 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,920 were estimating like 44 pages and it was 60. 298 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:32,560 So oops, 60 is a solid. It's bigger though. 299 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,840 I mean, it's a great. I mean, if you're going to be 300 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,200 divisible by 460, is a nice round Number. 301 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,160 So, yeah, and, and I'm really extraordinarily proud of it. 302 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,120 I think that Breeze art is really well done. 303 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,440 I think that John and Lucas wrote in a way that it you can't 304 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,600 like distinguish who wrote what bits like they did a good job 305 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:01,720 collaborating on that and Lucas, you tell them why I did a good. 306 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:06,640 Show I mean. Where in the world are you going 307 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,720 to find another TTRBG who's both whose primary game mechanic and 308 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,680 whose layout conceit is collage? Like, people don't do that 309 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,920 because it's hard and it requires a very different way of 310 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,640 thinking. It's this like maximalist sort 311 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:26,720 of joie de vive. And, you know, it looks like it 312 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,480 looks like nothing else on the shelf. 313 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,440 It feels like nothing else on the shelf. 314 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,320 It plays like nothing else on the shelf. 315 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,680 This is what like there's this weird thing that happens when 316 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,400 you make stuff where you're like this one, this is what I'm just 317 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,360 going to do and I'm OK with that. 318 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:44,240 And then it turns out to be one of the best things you've ever 319 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,120 done. It's like, Dang it, we did it 320 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:51,040 again. I wanted, I didn't think, I 321 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:52,880 didn't try to make this 1A banger. 322 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,480 And then I think it was. Yeah. 323 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,200 Yeah, definitely. That's me talking, but. 324 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,280 Right. I mean, we're still in August. 325 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,000 So this is really this hasn't been out. 326 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,640 For a very long it is September, unfortunately. 327 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,440 Just barely. So, so sorry, sorry, September. 328 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,040 So it's just. Barely the beginning of 329 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,680 September. Yeah yeah. 330 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,640 So there's not many people say answer very long, but you know, 331 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,760 it is it's it's neat. It's very interesting. 332 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,240 I and like you said the layout is fantastic and Lucas didn't do 333 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,920 a very good job of of talking about Emily and how wonderful it 334 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,360 is, but you did a really, really fantastic job. 335 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:37,720 It looks great and it's it's a lot like for a little square 336 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,960 book to not feel like crowded, but to also feel collaged and to 337 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,400 have this much stuff in it. You did a really, really good 338 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,720 job laying it out. So good job. 339 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,360 Thank you. Yeah, thanks to my grandmother. 340 00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:51,920 And and and. Everything. 341 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,440 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hadn't yet. I didn't. 342 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,760 And I'm, I'm planning to update this, but it's not bookmarked 343 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,760 and I'm really sorry about that. But there's hyperlinks and page 344 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,200 cross references are all in. There you go. 345 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,320 And yeah, special shout out to my grandma who keeps giving me 346 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,000 her Better Homes and Gardens magazines. 347 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,480 So feeding my collage I mean. I, I will say that like the 348 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:21,520 thing that the thing that makes a, a layout feel like Emily's 349 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:29,320 work is that it has margin and space in a way that's hard to 350 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,560 come by. Like, and, and maybe OSR is like 351 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,880 this, or maybe if you're coming from Morkborg where it's like 352 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,160 maximalist death metal all over the page as much as possible. 353 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,800 Emily has this like very clean sense of how to make a layout 354 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,640 regular and balanced and breathing like it has room to be 355 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,560 itself. It's not cramped. 356 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,000 That's how I can tell when Emily did a spread. 357 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,320 I do agree margins are great. Don't forget margins. 358 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,520 People out there, they teach every GS if I can't if I if I 359 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,360 can't open the book without covering something with my 360 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:07,000 thumb. Your margins aren't big enough. 361 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:10,720 That's literally the reason they exist. 362 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,680 That is a really good point. Yeah. 363 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,760 But yeah, so that's bonds between which is what we were 364 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:23,120 talking about last time and this time you guys have another 365 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:29,680 project coming from the initial what I so this is let me write a 366 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,800 note, OK? And then I'll come back to this. 367 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:37,400 I am very curious to see how it hit you without sort of our 368 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,240 intervention on the subject. We're talking about so So what 369 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,480 is this new? What is the new Kickstarter that 370 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,960 you guys are going to be running soon? 371 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,640 Ish. Ish. 372 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,720 Yeah. Yes, September 16th, we're 373 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,080 launching very. Close two weeks out and it's 374 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,720 this one. Those of you in podcast land, I 375 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,480 have it here. This is we put together an 376 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:01,920 ashcan version of it for Gen. Con. 377 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,560 So this has this like very sort of scrappy, kind of rough 378 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,720 textured paper feel to it, which I love very much. 379 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,120 And this was version 0.5 of the game called Gladysint. 380 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,920 This is a two player asymmetrical TTRPG of purpose, 381 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,800 pursuit, and guidance that relies on the Arthurian legend 382 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:28,480 of the Questing Beast to ask big questions about what the object 383 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,360 of your desire owes you in return. 384 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:32,560 What does it mean to have and chase a dream? 385 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,880 And what if it's for anyone who has ever loved something more 386 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,280 than they felt they were loved in return? 387 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:42,880 It's absolutely chock full of Arthur. 388 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,720 Real intent just filled the brim with it, really. 389 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,360 Sounds like it. And Arthurian intent, you know 390 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:52,560 what I mean? Yeah, Arthurian and Arthur, real 391 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,080 intent, yeah. There you go and yeah, I'll just 392 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,640 say straight up, like hold that ash can up again. 393 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:07,600 This is peak teach RPG to me. Like like thick scratchy paper 394 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,600 .05 versions of games. I have multiples of those on my 395 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,160 shelves and they're my favorite ones. 396 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,920 Anytime you can get something like that that that is great. 397 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,840 More people like print or home print your ashcans and give them 398 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,920 to people like they. My God, Much appreciate it. 399 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,320 Yeah. So much fun. 400 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,160 And because we made that like I think on, on the itch, we have 401 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,160 the print it yourself, like files. 402 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,640 So like it's all, you know, the pages are all imposed and 403 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,000 collated the right way so that you can just like print them out 404 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,960 and fold it, fold up your own scene. 405 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,760 Because like that's the, I mean, obviously thoughts of people use 406 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,880 PDF's and they're hyper usable. But like if you want a physical 407 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,160 thing, like I'm just printing it in my printer, like if you want 408 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,240 to go to the library and print it like you can have this 409 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,880 scrappy ash can in your hands. So the. 410 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:03,240 First time because I I made this in a word doc before I gave it 411 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,080 to Emily and like good layout happened. 412 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,840 I listen, it's a wizard's job to be able to do layout in in a 413 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,560 word, I'll never. I don't really understand how 414 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,160 people do it. It's right, like, let's do it. 415 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,040 And I don't. I'm like, I'm like, I'm amazed. 416 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:21,680 I'm just amazed. But I see. 417 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,120 Print that off I'll. Probably make it even more of a 418 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:28,760 pain in the ass because I write in docs in Page lists so I don't 419 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,240 even care what's on the page and then have to be like oh that's 420 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,000 cut off into different areas. Sucks for layout. 421 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,280 Not my problem. Literally someone else's 422 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,640 problem, Yeah. Literally what you pay people 423 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,200 like Emily to do is to take this word doc that is pageless and 424 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,720 this fucking wide on the screen but only uses this much of the 425 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:54,480 screen because you write it as like a like a oh God why is my 426 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,240 brain breaking when you have like 1 and then it's like tabbed 427 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,760 into ABCD. Oh yeah, a bunch of and. 428 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,520 Then just write it as a like a list. 429 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,000 Yeah, like everything is just that. 430 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,760 I will say I I printed this off and like I remember the day that 431 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,120 I did it because I printed it off and I got the cover done and 432 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,280 I staple. I figured out how to staple bind 433 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,120 a book. I was like punching holes with a 434 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:21,080 needle and putting a staple in and I pulled it up and then I 435 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,280 suddenly, like I suddenly had a book in my hand and I just 436 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,040 walked around my house going. You can also for. 437 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,120 About 30 bucks on. Amazon you can buy a stapler 438 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,440 that is really long. What are the really long ones? 439 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,880 Oh, I should have done so hot. Tip Hot tip, if you don't want 440 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,440 to get the long arm stapler, if you don't want to pay for a long 441 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,360 arm stapler, you can get what's called a swing arm stapler where 442 00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:49,360 it's swings sideways so that it's open air so you can fit any 443 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,960 any length thing in it and they just turn the little bottom bit. 444 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,240 Anyway, they're cool. Go look it up. 445 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,600 They're cheaper than long arm safely's. 446 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,560 I was, I don't know which one of those two things I was talking 447 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,600 about then because what I was talking about was like, I think 448 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,160 what you're talking about swing arm. 449 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,720 I literally just put swing arm in and I found like motorcycle 450 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,560 stuff. Yeah, I think, I mean, yeah, 451 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,880 long term safely's are like big, big. 452 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,080 They have like, long arms, you know, They're like. 453 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,520 Choked. Wait a minute, wait a second. 454 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,720 The long arm stapler has long arms? 455 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:27,520 That's crazy. Yeah, I know. 456 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,880 It's a shock, Yeah. Let me let me explain it to you. 457 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,840 So there's the. Swing arm stapler, it does swing 458 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,720 out, so that's great. No, I was talking about a long 459 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:36,880 arm, but the swing arm feels like neat. 460 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,880 So. So that's stapler talk for the 461 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:39,840 day. Right. 462 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:42,400 We're doing that. But punching the needle, you 463 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,360 know, it's also great. You can just like hand bind it 464 00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:45,800 yourself. That's what I was doing. 465 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,320 Sewing machine works great too. You can literally just buzz 466 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:52,080 right down the middle. That's but I like, I like 467 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,560 punching a needle in and just like, did you hammer the staples 468 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,880 into it then? Yeah, I got like a pair of 469 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,280 pliers that I was. I set this set the staples 470 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,560 exactly the length of the plier from the bottom of the page. 471 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,760 Yeah. And see that's even more that's 472 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:07,800 you're going. Real. 473 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,920 That's love and that's love and that's. 474 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,200 Really, like this game is a passion project start to finish. 475 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,680 Yeah. So, you know, it got like, I did 476 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,200 things for this game I would never have done if this were my 477 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,800 job. And it is now my job, which is 478 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:27,280 weird. But this was like before then, 479 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,360 so here we are. So Speaking of from start to 480 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:38,800 finish, why Why? Like why A2 player Arthurian 481 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,960 duet TTRPG with the questing beast and and whatnot? 482 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,680 Yeah, so this whole story I want to give you in the context of a 483 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,040 phenomenon that I call the snap, which is that thing that happens 484 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:56,480 in your brain when you know that the mechanics in the story and 485 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,920 the meaning fit in a really important way. 486 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:12,440 So I wrote this on the way home from PAX Unplugged 2023, which I 487 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:13,960 think might have been like right after we met it. 488 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:20,040 Was a year before. Oh was it OK, Pack packs very 489 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,200 much blurs together. But in 2021 I started writing 490 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:28,240 this book which is a fully 300 page monster manual of Earth's 491 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,440 extinct species rendered for Dungeons and Dragons 5th 492 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,840 edition. So I came into the industry with 493 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,520 Dungeons and Dragons with like a massive hefty project and it 494 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:45,600 took two years to write this and in the and that ended and we 495 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,120 funded it in March of 2023. And I didn't know at the time, 496 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,600 but that was the beginning of another two year process to make 497 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,560 it a real thing that I can hold in my hand. 498 00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:04,120 And it took this book was really hard to write in a way that 499 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,400 monster manuals don't tend to be because we were grappling with 500 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,160 climate change and the extinction crisis and the what 501 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,720 we owe to the world and our relationship to nature and how 502 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,600 to steward it well. And like all of the stuff that 503 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,880 politics and religion and faith and love and depression are made 504 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,840 of. And it, it wasn't going to be 505 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,760 real for another two years yet. Like I've heard people say that 506 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,680 if you have a call to do something, the call will be 507 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,920 tested. And that was sort of the dark 508 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,280 night of the soul. So I'm on the plane back from 509 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,280 PAX. You listening to the Hades Town 510 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:50,240 soundtrack, Absolutely trying, like trying to figure out how 511 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,920 I'm going to take another two years to make this book happen. 512 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:59,440 And I had just read, I think I had just read Dragon Douser. 513 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,840 This is a hassling games game that uses the same system as as 514 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,960 Gladys and would end up doing. But in this, you're sort of 515 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,280 moving over land like you're on a tableau of playing cards and 516 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,280 you're looking for one, you're looking for an ace. 517 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,040 So you're trying to be in a place that's a solo journaling 518 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,720 game. And I wanted to, I wanted like, 519 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,680 I was just sort of obsessed with this question, turning it over 520 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,680 in my mind. What does it mean to love 521 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,280 something more than it loves you in return? 522 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,080 And it had Origins that previous year, I had met an author who 523 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,960 said that if you are, if you have answers, you're a novelist. 524 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,080 If you have questions, you're a game designer. 525 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,800 So I wrote a game about this question and I just sort of kept 526 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,640 sitting with it for the next for the next two years while we 527 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,400 finally made my first book into a real book. 528 00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,520 And that's that's what Gladysint is. 529 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,600 So for a lot of reasons, it had to be what it was. 530 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,680 I've been talking for a while, but the the snap. 531 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,440 So there's a couple of snaps that happened. 532 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,440 One was that the one of the oldest and one of the most 533 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,720 perfect metaphors for that relationship of like an object 534 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,920 of your desire that you have no idea how to reach and you don't 535 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,480 know how it feels about you in return. 536 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,680 One of the oldest and best, I think, metaphors for that in 537 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,360 literature is the questing beast. 538 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,160 It's almost like the Holy Grail if it had feet and could move. 539 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,200 So you know, this this like impossible to describe chimeric 540 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,840 beast that just is out there sort of running around yelling 541 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,880 at everyone, being a general nuisance. 542 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,240 And the knight has to go and quest after this thing and sort 543 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,680 of define the nature of his vows by or their vows by going and 544 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:59,040 finding this beast that was like that was a space to play in. 545 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:04,000 Like that was a statement of Arthurial intent, which I could 546 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,640 have a conversation with in the context of the game. 547 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,480 The other snap was the Carta system. 548 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:16,720 So this game I think came out in 2021 and it runs a lot of solo 549 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,840 journaling games that are based on exploration. 550 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,200 So you lay out and we're back to playing cards because I think 551 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,200 these are truly beautiful, mathematically impossible thing. 552 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:31,320 So you lay out a spread of these 20 to 25 of them, and you assign 553 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,480 a story beat to each one of them in the book by suit and rank. 554 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,480 So the ace of spades is always something and the 10 of clubs is 555 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,800 always something. And when you turn it over, when 556 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,560 you move your token on to that, that's sort of the narrative 557 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,680 that you interact with. So that was a good fit because 558 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,840 of this following The Questing Beast is about exploring a world 559 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,760 or sort of tracking something through space and in my case 560 00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,520 time and to. But I had never seen a two 561 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,040 player card a game. So what that meant I could do 562 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,040 was add a second player to the system. 563 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,880 So instead of looking for an ace that you don't know where it is 564 00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:12,360 you're and that would be your Holy Grail, you're looking for a 565 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,840 questing beast and you don't know exactly how they're going 566 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,880 to move and they can move more easily than you and they know 567 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,639 stuff you don't. And all of that is really easily 568 00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,520 rendered by adding another player to that engine. 569 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,239 So yeah, that was that was how that came to be and that was how 570 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,120 it sort of snapped into place. Yeah, it's really interesting 571 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:43,440 the the, the way that you have the Knight and the Beast, like 572 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,600 you just said, doing 2 completely different things is I 573 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:48,880 don't describe it besides, it's neat. 574 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,960 It's a really neat idea. And what you have on the the 575 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,120 Kickstarter page that the knight is trying to get to the questing 576 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,800 beast but and the but doesn't know how and doesn't know how to 577 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,400 win. And the questing beast knows how 578 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,880 to win. But I guess the two only win if 579 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,480 the questing beast do does is doing its own thing and making 580 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,200 sure that the knight meets the winning conditions before the 581 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,800 knight gets to the questing Beast is such an interesting 582 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,880 play on mechanics. And just in general, like the 583 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,880 idea that one person kind of knows what's going on and one 584 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,520 person doesn't, but is like very purposely trying to figure it 585 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,680 out is is really, really cool. It's a great idea. 586 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:27,960 Thank you. Yeah. 587 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,880 Yeah, I think more of that. I just wanted to trace the 588 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:39,280 origin of that asymmetry back to when we were talking about what 589 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,000 the mechanics of the game should look like and how they should 590 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,160 rhyme with the concepts of the game and thinking about hidden 591 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:52,800 information in two player games. We had played a couple of two 592 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,160 player games. I don't remember one of them, 593 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,360 but one of them was fog of love. And it's like you, you're trying 594 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,760 in fog of love, you're trying to have a good relationship, but 595 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,240 you both have different hidden like incentives. 596 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,320 And so to put that on one person and and have them know the 597 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,960 tableau and the the the resource add addition, subtraction that 598 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,640 the mechanically that the knight has to kind of wind through to 599 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:24,840 to be the right be in the right place for the wind condition is 600 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:30,040 I think it's another good rhyme of those mechanics and concepts. 601 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,400 Yeah. Tableau great Word, by the way, 602 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:33,840 that keeps coming up. It's great word. 603 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,120 Still that one from board games. Yeah, I think Carta, Carta calls 604 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,040 it a spread. But you know, we're in, we're in 605 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,440 French and Middle English here, so. 606 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,280 Gotta get fancy with it. No, I mean we talk about this on 607 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,560 the show all the time, you know, and and we're we're unashamedly 608 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,680 like more, we lean way more rules. 609 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,920 Like if you give me a 300 page book, thanks, I'm going to stick 610 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:03,280 it on the show. But but but we do also say that 611 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,040 the shorter a book is kind of the more it has to work with 612 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:07,960 itself. That makes sense. 613 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,360 Like if you have a 300 page book, a lot of times it's it's 614 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,240 going to feel like it's a whole parts. 615 00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:16,440 But you know, Zenes and one of the reasons I love Zenes so much 616 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:23,640 is because the more all aspects of it work together, the more 617 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,080 successful it ends up being. So like when the art really 618 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,080 works with the rules, really works with the intent, really 619 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,800 works with the design, like it, it, it sings, you know, louder 620 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,360 and louder, which is which is great. 621 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,400 So, you know, as you said, the snap, the focus, like having all 622 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,160 of the pieces all work together, even to the point where 623 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,280 mechanically you're like, well, if, if we're doing this in the 624 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,400 game, then the mechanic should reinforce this part of the game. 625 00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:49,800 Yes, like all the time. Like that's great. 626 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,040 That's that's really what people should strive to have. 627 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,160 You know, like I've talked about this before with people just 628 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,680 like, why would you pick this system to do this thing where 629 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,840 like if you're building power, it would make sense to do like a 630 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,320 dice pool where you're adding to it because you're building up 631 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,320 like those kind of like simple kind of things to to add into 632 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,280 it. So yeah, I again, it's, it's, 633 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,120 I'm really excited to see the actual application of this 634 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,360 really, really neat idea. Cuz the asymmetry, not a lot of 635 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,440 games I think do asymmetry because it's hard. 636 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:23,880 It's fucking hard, especially if you have to. 637 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,160 Balance. It's like learning two different 638 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,320 games at once. Yeah, but that's great. 639 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,400 I mean, we're, we're, we're adults. 640 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,320 We can. We can do things at once. 641 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,480 Yeah. And it's, it's asymmetric goal, 642 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,520 but it's also cooperative in that if you you win or you lose 643 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,800 together. And so I think that helps 644 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:47,600 balance like your goals are ultimately this the the the same 645 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:53,200 or at least they end up uniting. In the end, to put a finer point 646 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:58,080 on it, you both know that. So you both have tokens and 647 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,760 you're both start on a joker on the outside of this tableau and 648 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,400 you're both sort of moving across it. 649 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,600 You both know that you must be on the same card at the same 650 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,960 time in order to win. But the Beast has this extra win 651 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,360 condition that they have to satisfy, and it could be some 652 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,400 position on the spread. It could be some combinations of 653 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,280 resources that the Knight has to gain or lose according to 654 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,280 different things that happen as they move across the spread. 655 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:26,800 It could be it could be how many cards they've turned over or 656 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,080 sort of the shape of their journey across that spread. 657 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,800 So this the night always has the singular objective like get to 658 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,080 the beast and the beast has to move away or closer or around a 659 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,400 certain place. And like only through their 660 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,880 behavior in the game and the resources they take and the 661 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,200 places they go can they communicate that information to 662 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,520 the night. So you are like, it is 663 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,640 asymmetrical in that you have different movement, you have 664 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,360 different roles, you have different jobs and different 665 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:59,320 resources to to use and track. But it is cooperative in that 666 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,680 you are both genuinely trying to make each other better. 667 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,640 Yeah, it's good. I'll I'm I'm a fan. 668 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,520 I'm very excited for this. It's, you know, like you said, 669 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,800 like that snap, like just sometimes like you hear 670 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,280 something, you're like, yeah, that makes fucking sense. 671 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,120 Like the question beast on the night. 672 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,880 And then doing like, again, this age metric system where, you 673 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,320 know, it's it's clever. It's really clever. 674 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,040 I'm excited for it. So I have the page up here for 675 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,680 the cover and the cover goes hard. 676 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,560 The logo goes hard. Like where? 677 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,840 Who, who? So you're doing the writing, 678 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,120 Emily, you're obviously doing the layout. 679 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,720 Who's doing all the art? Is that? 680 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:43,560 So the cover is all me the the finished interior will have 681 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:48,520 pieces by Fran Morton the include the night and the beast 682 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:54,560 are as seen on like the Kickstarter preview like header. 683 00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:00,200 You could see that her art in in that example there and then some 684 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:03,200 some additional art beyond just those two within the book. 685 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:09,000 But we, we worked with her, she's done a lot of like, I 686 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,080 mean, she's Scottish. So her, her Arthurian art was 687 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,000 one of the things that like helped us find her. 688 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:23,240 So she had already had examples of, of like specific vignettes 689 00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:24,680 from the Arthurian myth and stuff. 690 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:30,280 The cover came about well. The cover came about after the 691 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,680 the tote, the title, logo, wordmark, I don't know what to 692 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,000 call it. I think it's a word mark and I 693 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,200 remember giving you like getting the getting the word mark back 694 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,480 from you. That was that was a day over 695 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,680 here. Well, and because, OK, I think 696 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,120 I, I was talking to someone the other day and I was like being 697 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,680 clever on command is really difficult, like branding and the 698 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:58,200 graphic design world of, of branding and logo design is 699 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:04,520 like, there's a reason that it's expensive and like, if you, if 700 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,640 you do it well, it looks really effortless and it kind of feels 701 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,960 like, oh, of course, like, you know, of course I was always 702 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,520 going to be the, the logo of, of this. 703 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,000 So I'm I am really proud of the Gladys and word mark because it 704 00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:21,160 I think does a good job of combining the night and the 705 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:26,160 beast and still being like illegible and felt really felt 706 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,360 really clever at the time. It's still really clever. 707 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,880 I will say this is one of the better like, you know, kind of 708 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,720 like logo word marks all for a game that I've seen in quite a 709 00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:36,600 while. For those not in in in, for 710 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,120 those in pockets land, obviously. 711 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,320 I mean, go, go click the save button and back this. 712 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,800 But it's, it's Gladyson. But the G is like it's got a 713 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,920 Knight's helmet in there, but it also has like a tail for the 714 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,760 loop. There's a like a hoof print over 715 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,640 the eye. But it also like the, the font, 716 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,640 like the typeface you chose definitely speaks very towards, 717 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,000 you know, that kind of like our theory and fantasy. 718 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,960 I mean, it, it's great. It's really, really, really 719 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,320 good. So yeah. 720 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,200 Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I remember and I remember 721 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,920 sitting down and like sketching and looking at like those like 722 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:19,040 drop caps that we associate with like a little manuscripts and 723 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,440 stuff and kind of pulling shapes from those. 724 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,200 And. And then realizing that like, 725 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:29,320 oh, this the way this G is, is there's like space for there's 726 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,360 like a slit that reminds me of the slits in in night helmets. 727 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,000 And. And then from there I was like, 728 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,800 bro, what if? What if the G was like really 729 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:40,080 good? What? 730 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,640 If what if we? Just did. 731 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:46,440 Yeah, I think we did. I don't. 732 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,200 I don't remember if you. I don't remember if you showed 733 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,440 me the G before the rest of the word mark. 734 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,000 Yeah, but I did. I got the G and I was like, I'll 735 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:57,000 figure out the rest. It's gone. 736 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,920 From there I feel like all great and terrible ideas all start 737 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:06,200 with bro. What if no, what if you know? 738 00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:08,280 Yeah, and it worked. So the Kickstarter is launching 739 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,560 September 16th. I had originally cuz I know at 740 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,480 some point this is maybe cuz you emailed me like a long time ago 741 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,040 and said September. And I was like, bro, don't even 742 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:23,440 in August because my brain works about a weekend and it was 743 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,240 something like September 2nd or whatever. 744 00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:27,760 And I remember seeing that cuz I was flipping through our emails 745 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:33,440 recently and I was like. Yeah, notably, it is past. 746 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:38,240 It is September. Yeah, but it's coming up you. 747 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,480 Know you had an extra 2 weeks and like those two weeks were 748 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,520 like, sometimes when you're planning a Kickstarter, you're 749 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:47,680 like, I just need two more weeks. 750 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,480 And it turns out like you needed another month or another six 751 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,080 weeks and you just got to go. And like, I truly feel that this 752 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,080 time we needed another two weeks. 753 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,680 So we pushed it two weeks and we're exactly where we want to 754 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,760 be, which is crazy. Well, listen, the timeline isn't 755 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,400 what you make it, so like, it's not. 756 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,760 Like someone. 'S coming to get you if you have 757 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,080 to push it again you know yeah I mean I've seen people be like 758 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,680 I'll let go when it hits 200 followers you know what I mean 759 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,800 like and that works out great and you guys have over 200 on it 760 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:20,040 so there you go but but as far as the book itself goes 40 pages 761 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,520 quote UN quote based on. Give or take. 762 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,800 Bonds between no, no, no. It's actually 40 this time. 763 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,440 But you do have some early bird specials here, including like a 764 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,480 relief print. I mean, just keep hitting us 765 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,080 with the vibes, you know what I mean? 766 00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:44,600 But I'm also obviously a sticker set, but the enamel pin set, I'm 767 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,040 a big enamel pin guy. I still gotta put all mine on my 768 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,920 board but I always have. I get I got my coffin board of 769 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:56,480 enamel pin but obviously nowhere to hang yet because everything 770 00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:01,040 my fucking yeah. I'm also an enamel pin guy. 771 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,640 I think, I sort of, I think I, I think I leaned and wait like I 772 00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:10,040 wanted that more than maybe I should. 773 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,360 But they aren't like they are charming because we, we, we 774 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,880 wanted them as a set and we wanted them to fit together. 775 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,160 So it was that it wasn't. Asia, Asia, they did a, they did 776 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,600 the design of the Asia Kazab or Kazab. 777 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,520 I've never said it out loud. Only seen it in print. 778 00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,280 Yes, they're a Polish designer living in the UK and they did 779 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,760 the design of the enamel pins for us. 780 00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:43,200 Great job, amazing. We're excited to to have them. 781 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:48,000 They kind of like if you want to double as tokens for the game, 782 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:54,160 they're not obviously pins, so they're pin backed, but you 783 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,160 know, if, if you wanted to, you could use them in that manner. 784 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,920 We of course, like I'm sure many designers had, you know, so many 785 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,680 ideas for what the what the Kickstarter could have, you 786 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,200 know, we could have designed tokens, we could have designed 787 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:13,400 playing cards. And we really did want to have 788 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,760 it like as ready to go as possible. 789 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,160 So all the art is done, all the writing is done, editing is 790 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,160 done. Like the pins are designed, the 791 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,000 sticker sheet has been designed, it's been test printed. 792 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,280 So there's just like a few, you know, color tweaks and stuff. 793 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,320 The layout is, I'm going to confidently call it 90% done, 794 00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,720 which means we know the page count is 40 and it's not going 795 00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:41,920 to change. And I stand by goal I. 796 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,120 Don't see a stretch goal for more stuff. 797 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,480 But I mean, hey, listen, as someone who has backed a lot of 798 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,080 Kickstarters and talked to a lot of people that have run 799 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,760 Kickstarters but never run one myself, the biggest tip that I 800 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,920 give to people is have it as much done as fucking possible 801 00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:01,000 before you hit go. Because the most, the biggest 802 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,760 and most crash outs I've seen is people who had an idea and hit 803 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,360 go and then started writing after it funded. 804 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:12,280 And I have a lot of projects in my list that I will never 805 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,000 receive and that started that way. 806 00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:17,560 So. And we looked at from bonds 807 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:25,400 between like we had it, I would say 8085% done as far as writing 808 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,920 and editing and or yeah. And just like a lot. 809 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,280 We had what we thought was a lot. 810 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:37,160 And then, you know, it still took us, you know, time a couple 811 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:42,280 of months to finish up like the layout, the art, the, the 812 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,360 editing and stuff. So it's. 813 00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,880 It's a, it's a cascade. It's number one thing. 814 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,360 Like you can't just be like, oh, it's just writing because you 815 00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:50,400 still have to layout the writing. 816 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,360 You still have to put art in the page like you know. 817 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,320 Yeah, we were text complete ages ago. 818 00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,400 And of course we've still been, we've still been enabling it and 819 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,720 it has like the writing has gotten sharper throughout the 820 00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:04,280 layout process. But yeah, especially since this 821 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:08,600 is our first solo project, it was really, really important to 822 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,120 us that as much as we as possible, we were going to make 823 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:17,120 it so that when the Kickstarter closes, we will order the print 824 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:23,600 run like as like so close like within days if at all possible. 825 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,440 The best way those are my favorite Kickstarters that 826 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,800 they're literally like we'll send you APDF e-mail the day 827 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,480 that it ends and like. Pretty much like once this 828 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,480 closes, it's it's out, it's ready to go. 829 00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,240 So which is also one of the reasons why it's very, very 830 00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:37,840 simple. There's very little going on 831 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:39,400 here which is. Great. 832 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:45,520 I mean, in this, in this economy with, with, with what's 833 00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,960 happening with international shipping and stuff, I can 834 00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,520 imagine you're probably glad you didn't start messing with tokens 835 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,600 and cards and all sorts of stuff and putting things together 836 00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,640 because I feel like that would be much more expensive 837 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,080 currently. Someday I want my own deck of 838 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,560 playing cards, but that is like, you know, we could have done it 839 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,640 and I wanted to, but for the sake of our backers and our our 840 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,840 customer experience and, and our own sanity and Peace of Mind as 841 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:13,240 we try and make this thing happen. 842 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:15,240 Yeah. We kept it. 843 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,240 We kept it really simple. Somehow I think this won't be 844 00:50:17,240 --> 00:50:19,880 the last game that you make with cards in it, so you probably got 845 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,440 a good chance in the future. Yeah. 846 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,480 You're incredible. It's wild. 847 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,800 You can be a creator for your whole life and you still fight 848 00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,040 with wanting something that you love and care about to be the 849 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,680 best it can be, even if that means nobody ever sees it. 850 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:42,560 And like just fighting that urge to be like, it's really, if it's 851 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:46,040 kind of gift giving, it's like we want to give, but we want it 852 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:50,400 to be like so impactful because it feels so meaningful to us. 853 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:54,440 And it's, it's really just better to have it out and, and 854 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,200 let people have it. And then we can revisit it like 855 00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:01,080 we're free to. We're free to revisit it later. 856 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,560 So perfect does the enemy have done? 857 00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,120 But but I'm a perfectionist and that's why nothing I've ever 858 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:10,200 done has ever seen the light of day. 859 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,440 So I'm proud of you guys for making things and actually 860 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,440 putting them out into the world. You are better. 861 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:20,280 You are better than me. But yeah, so that is that. 862 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,360 Is that is like the way I'd say. Yeah, yeah. 863 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,040 Hey, I guess I, I have a podcast. 864 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,000 That's what I get. I'm just, I'm, I'm a rare 865 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:30,840 person, you know, a white dude with a podcast. 866 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:36,000 There's so few of us. But yeah, so that's Gladyson. 867 00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,800 That just means like in six months you got to have it 868 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,960 printed and in our hands and come talk about it again. 869 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,240 Sure. Yeah, let's lock it in there. 870 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,160 You. Go Yeah, super. 871 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,160 Excited for this one. We'll make sure that the links 872 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,320 to the to the pages are below. You guys do have like a a 873 00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,760 TinyURL or a short URL and everything. 874 00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,960 We'll make sure that that's where the the liner notes are 875 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,680 for the rest of your stuff for all of graphbound for for you 876 00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,320 guys individually. Where can people find find your 877 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:07,360 stuff? Where can people find box 878 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:08,880 between and and and pressure things? 879 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:14,040 So graphbound.com, that's our website and our our web stores 880 00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,160 there and you can read about games and stuff there. 881 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:24,200 Graftbound dot H dot IO for RH/PDF of things slash things 882 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,760 that are print and play or free or those kinds of things. 883 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,520 And that those are the 2 main places to get everything bonds 884 00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,880 between right now. The best play, the best way to 885 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,120 to get a physical edition of that is actually to go to 886 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:45,320 breitbartgames.com because they have the physical editions right 887 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,560 now. We're still we're going to get, 888 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,800 you know, an order of those from them, but they're the original 889 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,080 print run came to them and they distributed it. 890 00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,080 So that's the best way to get a physical edition of that got. 891 00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,920 You Yeah. Well, guys, thank you so much 892 00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:03,720 for coming on once again to the show. 893 00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:05,600 Last time you were here, there were supposed to be the whole 894 00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,920 the whole four person crew. And it ended up being what's 895 00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,280 funny is you 2 have been on the show but I actually met the 896 00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,720 other two. I got to meet. 897 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,840 The Breitbart people at Gen. Con, but I've got to talk to you 898 00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,560 both here on the show. So we'll see if at some point we 899 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,400 can, we can switch that you guys want to PAX. 900 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,320 Planning to We'll see. I'll. 901 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,360 Get back to you at that one. So. 902 00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,200 I was, I was just reminded that it's the week before 903 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,160 Thanksgiving this year. So yeah, I have to think about 904 00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,600 that. I guess every couple years it 905 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,720 moves for a weird reason, but it's also the same week as 906 00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:44,760 Sevilla Marathon so if you don't have a hotel yet, good luck. 907 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,560 Yeah, better get one. Yeah, I did know that. 908 00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,920 Was to crash on, yeah. But seriously, thank you guys so 909 00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:52,560 much for coming on. It's been a pleasure talking 910 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:53,800 with. You thanks for having. 911 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,560 Us, yeah, we'll make sure the links are are where links are on 912 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,960 the Internet below and and that's best for today. 913 00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:01,840 So thank you all so much and we'll see you later. 914 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:02,280 Bye. See. 915 00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:03,360 You, everybody.