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Hello and welcome to the Weekly 
Scroll Podcast. 

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My name is Ryan and with me 
today is the one and only Joey 

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Royale. 
How you doing today, Joey? 

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Ciao, Paizon's right thanks to 
have me on the show. 

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I love the weekly scroll. 
Thank you very much for coming 

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on anyone that watches the show.
Not too long ago we reviewed 

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Weird Heroes of Public Access. 
And let me stop for a second, 

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Joey Royale. 
For for those that might be 

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unfortunate enough to not know 
who you are, who the heck is 

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Joey Royale? 
Who the heck is Joey Royale? 

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I'm just a guy in my basement 
with a bunch of crazy ideas. 

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Ryan. 
I got Haunted Industries, which 

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is my label, so to speak, for 
all the gaming stuff that I come

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up with. 
I I like the weird. 

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So one of my biggest things, my 
biggest passion is the thing 

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that I put out the most is my 
weird Heroes of Public Access 

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role-playing game. 
You and your pals play Public 

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Access host combating the 
supernatural in a pre Internet 

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suburb of the town called 
Fairhaven. 

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So that's been doing pretty 
well. 

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I, I come out with the Zine 
about every month or two to keep

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that town alive and keep the, 
the heroes busy, the host busy. 

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And then I've also done Ninja 
City, which was ADCC dungeon 

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craw classics reskin. 
That is basically, you know, 80s

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VHS ninja movies. 
You can do that. 

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And then before that I did, I 
did Darkest Dice, which was a 

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religious tract version of the 
melted down OSOSR rules. 

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And then what started it off for
me was a partnership with my 

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friend Tim Deshane, the first 
guy that ever ran RPG for me. 

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And that was One of Us, which 
was also ADCC game, a setting 

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and some extra classes that was 
focused on the sideshow. 

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And I'm sure we'll get into it 
more in the episode, but I'm a 

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big fan of sideshows and all the
history behind that. 

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So that's what I do. 
I kind of take the idea of a 

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role-playing game and coat it in
candy and it's I'm the junk food

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guy of the RPG world. 
That's how I had to consider 

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myself. 
There you go. 

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Yeah, like I said, like I said, 
we reviewed We're here as a 

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public access not too long ago. 
And boy, when you put out like a

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Zena month, you do really put 
out like a Zena month. 

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I have. 
I found everyone that I can, 

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which I can barely show on the 
screen here. 

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But some of the early stuff, I 
had to go from your Etsy store. 

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I had to get some from Exalted. 
I had to get some from Goodman 

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Games. 
Tiger Wizard hooked me up with a

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couple that were out of print. 
And I think I'm only missing one

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or two. 
Hopefully, maybe. 

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And I even just recently snagged
the third party one. 

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Yeah, by the 15. 
Year old Wallop, the Hulu that's

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I was very impressed by that. 
Man, that was really cool. 

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Well, and it's really cool of 
you to like support the youths 

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with putting out, you know, some
good old Satanic panic. 

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Absolutely. 
But but I guess so, so weird. 

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Here's a public access. 
I obviously again, you like the 

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weird, which is awesome. 
You know, one of the things we 

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talked about on the show was I 
wish, I wish people would 

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embrace more weird in the TRBG 
space. 

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Things are so polished now we 
got to get weird again. 

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So I very much appreciate it. 
But where? 

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Where did the weird meet The 
TTRPG that got you to make weird

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heels of public access 
originally? 

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Well, when I first started, when
I, when I did like Ninja City 

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and darkest Ice and one of us 
that the, the WIC was lit and 

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you couldn't stop that dynamite 
stick from going off. 

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Like it just became an 
obsession. 

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So I was like, you know, I was 
in between projects. 

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I'm like, Oh my God, there's 
nothing left upstairs. 

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What am I going to do? 
But I knew I need to create 

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something. 
This is like right at the 

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beginning of COVID. 
So, you know, the words world's 

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falling apart, you're lonely, 
you can't game with your friends

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anymore. 
So I was at work and work was 

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terrible because I work in 
education and we had the school 

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shut down. 
So I still had a show up and it 

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was lonely. 
There was no kids in the 

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building. 
So what am I going to do? 

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So I sit down and like, almost 
for like, therapy, I started to 

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make a list of all the things 
that interest me. 

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And, you know, big surprise, it 
was eclectic. 

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So you got, you know, Weird Al 
Yankovic, John Waters, you know,

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late night television from when 
I was a kid, Walter Mercado, the

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the prophet for Muni VC own and 
Twin Peaks and all this Now I'm 

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like, what the hell is the 
umbrella that this falls under? 

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Like what, what can I, how can I
smash all these things together 

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and make a game out of it? 
I I really became like, well, 

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I'll just do, I'm going to do 
weekly World News, the game like

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the old tabloid newspaper, but I
wanted to switch it up like, how

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can this be interactive? 
How can there be character 

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classes, boom, television 
programming, so public access. 

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So it just like, all right, this
is that's the vehicle for this. 

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All these people, all these 
hosts, these weirdos, these 

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weird events can happen. 
That was like, that's the party,

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that's the conglomerate, the 
collaboration right there. 

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How can I get all these weirdos 
in one space to solve or fight 

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something? 
And to me it was public access. 

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I got a background in television
production. 

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That was my first career. 
So I knew a little bit of how 

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things worked and the the 
weirdness and all the fun that 

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goes into that. 
So that's where we're here is 

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the public access came. 
And then once I lit that fuse, 

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man, that didn't stop because 
it's basically I just drive 

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around my town. 
I live in the suburbs. 

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I just look at a stop and shop 
or like the back of a gas 

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station. 
Like it's like I always say, I 

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like finding the the the the 
fantastic within the mundane, 

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making the regular world the 
strange world when you. 

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Do I know that's like the most 
abrupt way to say that, but 

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weird here is public access is 
such a perfect like mix of 

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reality. 
It it almost feels like AR to 

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me, you know what I mean, where 
it's like this weird, but it's 

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weird in a way that like it 
could be, you know what I mean? 

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Like I wouldn't be surprised, 
you know, like the like the 

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magic stuff is one of my 
favorite parts of weird here is 

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the public access because it's 
like, sure, yeah, you get it. 

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But it's not like great. 
Like it's OK, but someone will 

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be like, that's just that was 
the wind or that was whatever. 

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It's like just on the cusp of 
like, you know, not totally 

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through the portal, but like 
definitely looking into it. 

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And I think that's one of the 
things that really got me is 

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just like how how like it's the 
reality, but just like one Click

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to the right a little bit and, 
and it, it's great. 

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And I'm old enough to know, like
I'm old enough to remember 

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public access and like all this 
other stuff, not like these 

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youngins out here. 
And it's just, it's a lost art. 

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It's a lost medium. 
And like weird is a lost thing 

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to be. 
I feel like the farther we get, 

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the more normal is just like 
hammered in everybody. 

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And it's it was great to to read
the game. 

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I still have not got a chance to
play it. 

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I have not got a chance to sit 
at the table with it. 

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And I've already like thought 
about characters. 

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Me and Hunter were talking about
how we could like make a 

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campaign with the with the TV 
Guide thing and everything. 

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So it's it'd be. 
I can't. 

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I can't wait to get it to the 
table. 

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I would love to run a game for 
you guys sometimes. 

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That's a that's a that's a gift 
certificate right there. 

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All right, thanks for having me 
on today. 

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Thanks for the reviews before 
you get a free game with Joey 

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Royale. 
So we'll we'll get that on here 

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on the books. 
If you're willing to do an AP 

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here on the show, we we would. 
We'll just get Tiger Wizard as 

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the third and then we'll have 
our 4 will be good to go. 

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One thing I did want to ask, 
it's kind of a non sequitur Joey

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Royale. 
Rev Joey Royale, are you a are 

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you actually a Reverend? 
Is that a thing? 

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So no, not yet. 
But something happened and I get

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an hunter here. 
So it's all coming to fruition. 

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It is. 
I like to manifest things. 

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I like the will thing. 
So no, that was always kind of 

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like a name I took on when I had
bands, You know, I had a lot of 

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bands that were in the realm of 
Johnny Cash, Nick Cave, Tom 

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Waits. 
And my outfits always had like 

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the kind of like the Night of 
the Hunter, one of my favorite 

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movies that ensemble the 
traveling reverend, you know, 

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the black and white suit, the, 
the ribbon bow tie. 

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And so people just started to 
call me Reverend 'cause I just, 

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I don't know, I guess I had that
presence. 

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But I I'm in education and my 
first class of students are at 

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the age now where they're 
getting married and having kids.

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And just last weekend I was 
asked to officiate 2 of my 

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students marriage coming up. 
So now I actually got to put the

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money where my mouth is and I 
actually have to get ordained so

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I can marry these two kids. 
So now I am going to be really 

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irreverent. 
That's, that's awesome. 

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How have you started that 
process? 

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No, not yet. 
It's it's it's way more simple 

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than I thought it would be. 
I think I just got to click a 

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couple of buttons online, send 
them 20 bucks and they get a 

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license that's. 
What I was going to ask, I was 

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like, is it as easy as in the 
movies where you can just be so 

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apparently, yeah. 
You know what, if I could become

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an actual reverend, it's got to 
be pretty friggin easy. 

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So. 
So I'm looking forward to that. 

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Yeah. 
So yeah, I'm going to be a real 

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reverend. 
That's awesome. 

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You know, this is completely non
secular, but it kind of links 

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like it's you know how hard it 
is to change your name outside 

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of like a marriage certificate. 
It's so difficult. 

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I can't believe it's easier to 
become an ordained reverend of a

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church than it is to change your
name, which it's never going to 

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not boggle my mind while at the 
same time completely not 

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surprising me about America. 
That's religion for you. 

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Yeah, so. 
Weird. 

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Here's the public access. 
I don't know, I grabbed my 

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entire stack of jeans, but 
somehow the book is not with it.

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The gorgeous hardcover book. 
What? 

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Here we go. 
I got one right here. 

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Here. 
This way we go. 

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We'll show it. 
Always got to have one. 

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Oh, man. 
I disappeared in the Hickory 

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Farms. 
I'm in the summer sausage 

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section. 
There you go. 

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Where? 
Here is the public access. 

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Gorgeous cover love love the the
colors are perfect those like 

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muted like it's it's perfect. 
Thank you. 

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Getting it from this stack of 
stuff into a book, Why? 

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How? 
Like what was the process that 

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you went to to decide, this is 
really cool, let's make it 

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bigger and better. 
So I mean, it really has to. 

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It comes down to what you said 
to cover. 

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Hayden Hall is an artist in 
Philadelphia. 

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I consider him a friend. 
We're working on a video project

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together. 
He is actually a public access 

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host. 
So he has something called 

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Luther's Midnight Mid Fright 
Snack, which is a video project 

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he does down in Philadelphia. 
And this is actually him. 

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This is the portrait of the 
artist as a public access host. 

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So he's also, I got interested 
in him. 

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He my buddies have a Ben and Ted
have don't tell mom and dad, 

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which is a sweet RPG. 
Very good. 

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I'm sure. 
I wonder what you don't have on 

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those shelves. 
But they he did the cover for 

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them. 
So I'm like, guys, I got to get 

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hooked up with this guy. 
I love the whole vibe he's 

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doing, But then I just wanted 
something portable. 

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So as you see, that's not you 
can't just walk around with the 

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stack as I mean, you can, but 
it's not very efficient. 

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So I said I want to kind of just
kind of monumentalize the the 

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the first scene and like the 
first three that with the court 

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rules and the first three that 
went with it, smash it all 

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00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,360
together and do the production 
just to just to get it. 

223
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,400
I wanted something that would go
on a bookshelf. 

224
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,880
I'm I'm a Zine guy forever, but 
I also got to make a couple of 

225
00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,640
bucks in my pocket. 
So to go to major stores, they 

226
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,680
tell me you got to have a 
little, you got to have a spine,

227
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:09,200
you got to have a hardcover or 
something like that. 

228
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,960
So I say, all right, I'll bow 
down to capitalism for a little 

229
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,480
bit, but I also wanted something
nice, you know, for the mantle. 

230
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,920
Mean like 30 grand like is 
pretty successful. 

231
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,720
I didn't even plan stretch 
goals, man. 

232
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,000
I didn't think it was going to. 
I thought I was going to 

233
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,800
hopefully. 
I was praying I'd hope I'd make 

234
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,600
the goal and then boom, right 
through the roof and everybody's

235
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:32,560
like, hey, what are you, stretch
goals? 

236
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,120
I have no idea. 
Tell me. 

237
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,760
So basically anything somebody 
threw at me became a stretch 

238
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,240
goal. 
You want? 

239
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:39,640
What do you guys want? 
We want dice. 

240
00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,000
All right, you get dice, the GM 
screen, beer koozie. 

241
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,760
There you go. 
So it kind of became like ARPG 

242
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,360
QV C So yeah, I was very, very 
grateful. 

243
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:52,440
Yeah, I. 
Couldn't imagine anything better

244
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,520
than doing like an RPG QVC. 
That would be so neat. 

245
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,360
Like 2:00 in the morning we're 
like look at this new DCC. 

246
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,240
Like that would be sick. 
I spent my lunch time on Friday 

247
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,880
watching old clips of Don W sell
Beanie Babies in the cutlery 

248
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,240
corner. 
The night shows that's that was 

249
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,160
like right after as public 
access started the dawn. 

250
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,360
We could depend on QVC to bring 
those hits late at night. 

251
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:22,640
Gosh, the nostalgia that 
radiates from this stack on my 

252
00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:26,000
desk is crazy. 
We're a certain type of person, 

253
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,040
people that we experience this 
together growing up. 

254
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,000
Yeah, absolutely. 
I mean, yes, it's it's so, I 

255
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,480
mean, I'm sure every generation 
feels this way, but it's always 

256
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,080
that weird thing like if you 
ever watch like on Instagram, 

257
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,920
they have like parents asking 
their kids like, how do you pick

258
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,040
up a phone? 
And kids are like holding it 

259
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,200
like this. 
And I'm like you, the world is 

260
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,320
doomed. 
Like, that's not a telephone. 

261
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,000
This is a telephone. 
But but you know darn kids, 

262
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:59,480
right? 
But $30,000 a project made it's 

263
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:00,720
a hardcover. 
It exists. 

264
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,800
Are you still I know you're 
working another project we're 

265
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,720
going to talk about in a second.
Are you still working on weird 

266
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,680
hears about access? 
I'm trying to see in a month. 

267
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:11,280
Or yeah, I finished, I finished 
another one yesterday. 

268
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,720
So I got about 5 in the can 
ready to be printed. 

269
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,720
They just keep on coming. 24 
pages. 

270
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,000
You know, I can just that's, 
it's become like exercise for 

271
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,680
me. 
I I've become a little bit, you 

272
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,080
could call it habitual, you 
could call it obsessive, but 

273
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,800
it's a, it's therapy for me too.
That's how I express myself now 

274
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,720
through my writing and and 
digging and and, you know, doing

275
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,720
the weird graphic design stuff. 
So yeah, that's going to keep on

276
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,040
going. 
And I have a Patreon again, what

277
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,560
that industries Patreon, which 
is Tiger. 

278
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,680
It's nice to have friends that 
hold you accountable. 

279
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,520
So, you know, we get together 
every two weeks. 

280
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,800
The sewer rats got a bunch of 
guys and I created and I and we 

281
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,520
like, all right, so what's up 
next? 

282
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,440
You said you're going to do 
this. 

283
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,560
Are you going to do it? 
So from that came to Patreon so 

284
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,560
I can ensure that I still put 
out stuff. 

285
00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,120
So everybody in the get wanted 
industries, Patreon gets a a 

286
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,440
postcard every month and usually
something a little bit more. 

287
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,480
So that keeps me busy. 
And then yeah, the the project 

288
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,920
I'm working on now with my buddy
tiger Wizard for mouse rider 

289
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,560
months. 
That's Tales from the Night 

290
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:18,400
Market, which is I, we just had 
a meeting Thursday night and 

291
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,200
when we get together it's, it's 
nuts. 

292
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,760
It's chaos in a good way. 
And all the sudden we, we have a

293
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:26,880
whole new angle and whole new 
ideas. 

294
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,320
So I'm on a, I'm on a run right 
now. 

295
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,240
I've been, I've been bulking up 
our, our outline all weekend on 

296
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:33,320
that. 
That's going to be fun. 

297
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,960
Yeah, so, so Mouse Shooter month
for those that don't know, we 

298
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,600
did have Matt Morris on the show
talk about Mouse Rider month. 

299
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,360
He's one that's doing rolling 
Coast. 

300
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,000
So we've talked about Mouse 
Rider month a bunch and I 

301
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:50,040
fucking love Mouse Rider. 
I think in a certain with 

302
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,280
certain metrics, Mouse Rider is 
probably the best TRPG ever 

303
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,120
written in my opinion for for 
some specific metrics that I'm 

304
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,880
not going to get into. 
But what? 

305
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,120
Why Weird heroes to Mouse Rider 
is a little bit of a jump. 

306
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,680
Why? 
What got you wanting to go from 

307
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,080
Weird Heroes to making a project
with Tiger Wizard? 

308
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,720
First of all, let's let's let's 
chop that and let me write it on

309
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,720
my board here. 
What for Mouse Rider? 

310
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,240
Tiger Wizard? 
How the heck did you guys get in

311
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,200
touch? 
How I'm trying to think well, 

312
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:28,600
the first time we probably 
crossed paths I think was at 

313
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:29,520
Gen. 
Con. 

314
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:36,360
They, he and Dragon Warrior had 
me on their show I think when 

315
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,960
WHPA first came out in the scene
form. 

316
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,360
Or it might have been Ninja 
City, I'm not sure. 

317
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,200
Anyway, somehow, probably 
through DCC or something, and I 

318
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,920
was doing the pizza party on the
Good Me Games channel, which was

319
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:50,960
kind of like gay, you know, 
talking about games and 

320
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,600
creativity. 
Somehow we emailed each other. 

321
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,960
They got me on the show and I 
ran into them at Gen. 

322
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,920
Con the first time I went. 
And they're just the nicest guys

323
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,000
in the world, you know? 
And so we immediately became 

324
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,319
fast friends. 
We would meet up at other cons. 

325
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:09,960
And then most recently, I see 
your look New England represent.

326
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:15,520
You got your Hive Scum shirt on.
We actually met up for Under the

327
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,160
Dice Fest in the springtime and 
we shared a hotel room and we 

328
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,240
vended together. 
So we're like, all right, dude, 

329
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:23,280
there's there's no way around 
it. 

330
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,680
We have to do, we have to do a 
game together. 

331
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,240
We have to do something together
because we we're very aligned in

332
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,160
some ways. 
And the other ways our brains 

333
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:34,760
work differently. 
And I think that's very 

334
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,520
important. 
I can't work with a clone of 

335
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,440
myself. 
Plus, his art is incredible. 

336
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,680
He's one of my favorite artists 
in the game right now. 

337
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,760
And like, I couldn't say no. 
So you got the friendship, the 

338
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,960
talent and just the natural 
collaboration. 

339
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,920
And together he's joined us in 
the Sewer Rats, which is, as I 

340
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,240
mentioned before me, Neon Lords,
the Toxic Wasteland, Don't Tell 

341
00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,200
Mom and Dad, Levi from Planet X 
Games and John Hambo McGuire 

342
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,160
from 321. 
So we're always tag team and 

343
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:08,800
each other to do games, but when
it comes down to like what, why 

344
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:14,520
like what we are going to do, I 
think it's like there's 

345
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,920
something about Mouse Rider. 
You put it very nicely. 

346
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,920
It is amazing, probably one of 
the best out there. 

347
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:24,400
But just changing your ideas and
it's really fun about how do you

348
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:29,440
make this into that? 
For example, it's mice and we 

349
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,040
knew from the beginning we want 
to make something that's like 

350
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:36,040
the leftovers of the humans. 
Something was something happened

351
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,480
and now they revel in the after 
hours of a human party or 

352
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,880
experience or something. 
So like, well, what about like a

353
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,680
market? 
So the, the name of the game 

354
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,400
that we're doing is Tales from 
the Night Market. 

355
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,960
And we originally thought of, Oh
yeah, like there was a fair and 

356
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,480
people dropped a bunch of stuff 
and now the the mice come in at 

357
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,440
night and they have their own 
kind of party. 

358
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,280
So then our wheels started 
turning. 

359
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,440
What about like there's like a 
fruit stand and they throw all 

360
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,600
the old fruit to the side. 
So then you get all sorts of 

361
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,480
stuff. 
You get drunk mice, you know 

362
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,440
what the fermented fruit you 
get, you know, weird maggots and

363
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,480
bugs that are in there. 
Some sort of, you know, 

364
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,320
underground booze trade, you 
know, bootleg and amongst the 

365
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,880
fruit. 
And then, but where would this 

366
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,800
take place? 
So maybe like a sideshow and 

367
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,640
boom, that's where it went off 
for me. 

368
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,840
I think that originally was 
Tiger's idea, but I have history

369
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,720
with the sideshow and I'm like, 
dude, we, we have to. 

370
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,840
That's kind of how I started. 
All my writing was with one of 

371
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,320
us, which is basically Todd 
Browning's freaks for DCC and I 

372
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,120
spent a little time at Coney 
Island. 

373
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,440
I got a day's pay there once as 
the outside talker or the Barker

374
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,520
to the lay people. 
So it's a, it's another passion 

375
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,560
of mine, the sideshow, the 
history of the sideshow. 

376
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,000
So once again, you just throw 
that all in the meatloaf and you

377
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,560
got to tell us from the night 
market, which is going to be 4 

378
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,120
pamphlets. 
So you get like the whole keyed 

379
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:04,920
map of this night market slash 
kind of fairgrounds and then 

380
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:09,720
you're going to get three other.
Location pamphlets having to do 

381
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,520
with the sideshow and mutants, 
mutant mice. 

382
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,280
You've got the, you know, the 
garden of ferment, ferment 

383
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,680
fermentated fruits. 
That's like the beer hall or the

384
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,680
beer garden for the mice. 
And you know, there's a 

385
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,240
kidnapped fortune teller that 
you know, if this takes the 

386
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,880
fermented garden one, I won't 
get too many spoilers, but it 

387
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:36,840
takes place in a castaway 
stuffed animal from like a, you 

388
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,920
know, the book, the the ring 
toss or the bottle breaking 

389
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,080
thing. 
This was a toy that got a RIP in

390
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,400
it and was thrown Outback. 
So now it's infested by mice and

391
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,360
creatures and all that. 
You got to explore that. 

392
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,920
And then the last one is a 
really weird one that furthers 

393
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,280
the fortune teller thing. 
And that's that's the story of a

394
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,920
cursed tattooed my mouse whose 
tattoos come alive. 

395
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:05,760
So very very something wicked 
this way comes secrets of Nim 

396
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,160
that those are all were big 
influences on on the our source 

397
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,960
material, our writing for this. 
Yeah, it's, you know, it's 

398
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,440
really interesting. 
One of my favorite things about 

399
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,640
mouse shooter is that everything
you do always feels a little 

400
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,320
different because you're mice. 
Like I try to, I try to when I 

401
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,160
when I describe it to people, I 
was like, well, if you, if you 

402
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,720
have, if you're playing a 
fantasy game and you have a 

403
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,880
knight fighting a dragon, 
there's always this party that 

404
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,080
goes, well, the knight will beat
the dragon, right? 

405
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,720
And that's bullshit because the 
night would get their ass beat 

406
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,200
by a dragon. 
But if you say it's a mouse 

407
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,480
versus a cat, that fear returns 
of just like, well, obviously 

408
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:43,760
they're going to lose. 
It's a cat. 

409
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,320
Like it's a like, there's no 
way. 

410
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:50,920
And I feel like that whole idea 
whenever you do like if it's 

411
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:52,960
let's have this whole thing for 
humans, but when you make it 

412
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,360
mice, you're suddenly like it. 
It gives you kind of a like with

413
00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:00,080
new eyes again, you know that 
you can do it all. 

414
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,680
So I'd like also the link when 
mouse Twitter weird. 

415
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,120
Here's the public access. 
Where's the link? 

416
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:10,400
And it's that sideshow bit 
bringing it in the weird is 

417
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,840
going to get into it. 
And that's what really pulls it 

418
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,840
all in. 
It's it sounds very much you and

419
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,240
tiger wizard. 
And it's interesting when you 

420
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:22,640
say the the sewer rats, because 
when I first saw weird heroes of

421
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,600
public access, the first people 
I thought of were like Levi 

422
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,560
Combs. 
It was like neon Lords of the 

423
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:28,920
toxic wasteland because isn't 
leaving Combs? 

424
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,600
Doesn't he have like a Reverend 
Werewolf game coming out soon or

425
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:32,240
something? 
Like that. 

426
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,280
Oh, yeah, Reverend. 
Old timing. 

427
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,640
Yeah, We, we worked on that. 
That was one of his, his 

428
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,560
brainchilds where a bunch of us 
contributed. 

429
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,880
But, and you know what? 
That's the weird thing, man. 

430
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,160
So leave my connection to Levi, 
who was one of the greatest 

431
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,440
people in the world. 
I'd when Instagram first 

432
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,640
started, that's when I was like 
heavy into sideshow stuff. 

433
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,800
I was collecting sideshow 
memorabilia. 

434
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,760
I was making sideshow gaps like 
the mummified Fiji mermaids and 

435
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,000
shrunken heads and all that. 
And he had, I forgot the name of

436
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,840
it, but he had a page that was 
focused solely on the sideshow. 

437
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,760
And he has a lot of ephemera and
memorabilia from it as well. 

438
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,880
And that's how I got to know. 
I'm like, oh man, this guy is, 

439
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,880
is amazing. 
He, he's got it all. 

440
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,360
And it wasn't till like a year 
ago where I'm like, holy cow, 

441
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:21,760
wait a second, Levi, this I've 
eaten dinner with this guy. 

442
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,720
Didn't know you're him. 
Like we go way back, like we 

443
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,440
were shooting back and forth and
you know, hey, cool mermaid or 

444
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,800
cool whatever ice pick for this 
sideshow, you know, and it, 

445
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,160
that's how we went back. 
So there's a lot of, there's a 

446
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,760
lot of webs within this. 
And I guess what we all do, the 

447
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,080
sewer rats we've kind of 
discovered is we make stuff, all

448
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,280
of our stuff is for the outsider
and in mouse, right? 

449
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,560
And as a mouse, you're the 
outsider and in the world is a 

450
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,160
very dangerous place to you. 
You are at the, the bottom of 

451
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,720
the food chain. 
Everything's a predator. 

452
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,680
And like what I was saying, how 
do you make this into that? 

453
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,280
That's the cool thing about 
Mouse Shredder because you're 

454
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,080
not going to make a like Tiger 
and I were talking about this 

455
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,280
the other night. 
Like man, we got to switch this 

456
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,800
up. 
The big top can't be actual big 

457
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,560
top. 
It's got to be a flipped over 

458
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,320
popcorn bucket or something like
that. 

459
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:18,120
I love how Mouse Ritter turns 
the mundane things into 

460
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:21,680
something special. 
Like garbage is a huge part of 

461
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,760
all these projects and Mouse 
Ritter, it's scavenging, it's 

462
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,880
turning, you know, a cardboard 
box into a castle. 

463
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,680
It's it's turning a straw into a
javelin, you know, And that's 

464
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,960
what I really love that 
creativity part where you can't 

465
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,720
just stick to the old tropes or 
the old solutions to the 

466
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,040
puzzles. 
You have to think out-of-the-box

467
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,240
and let your players have some 
agency. 

468
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,120
And that that's why I love Mouse
Red and and I took on this 

469
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:51,280
project with such gusto. 
And you said there's going to be

470
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:56,440
4 total pamphlets, right? 
Yeah, Now they're all like 

471
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,280
specifics in the project. 
They're all you said, are they 

472
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,960
all just adventure locations? 
And The thing is there a through

473
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,280
line that you're going to go do 
this one, then this one, then 

474
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,120
this one? 
Or is the story going to be just

475
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:08,520
kind of like how you weave 
through it or like how are they 

476
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,040
all going to work in together to
kind of tell the story of the 

477
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,840
night market? 
I'm trying to work on my ability

478
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:19,080
to write sandboxes better. 
I want to do a better job with 

479
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,320
sandboxes once again in in what 
I've seen, I, you know, I got 

480
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,120
the estate, that box set of the 
pamphlets and what I love. 

481
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,320
Yeah, right there, I can see it.
What I love about that is just 

482
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,040
the bullet point approach to 
locations. 

483
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,320
And it's not only does it make 
it efficient, but I never want 

484
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,480
to tell my players what to do. 
And I've been guilty of that 

485
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,120
before in some of my writing and
all that, but I'm, I'm trying to

486
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:52,000
develop a way to come up with 
systems that inherently lead to 

487
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,320
the game master and the players 
filling in the blanks, you know,

488
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,120
adding the muscle to the 
skeleton. 

489
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,120
I remember when I first started 
playing games and I would get 

490
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,760
splat books and modules and 
stuff, I'd freak out. 

491
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,520
I'm like, Oh my God, I got to, I
got to make sure I hit this and 

492
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,960
make this name. 
And then when I saw the estate 

493
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,280
box set and those, the way they 
do the pamphlets, a lot like 

494
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,600
Mothership too, where it's just 
like, here are the beats. 

495
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,160
It's up to you guys to figure 
out how it goes. 

496
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,360
Now, that being said, yeah, 
there are some through lines. 

497
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:25,160
There's going to be some carrot.
This is a small area, you know, 

498
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,720
to the mice it's big, but for 
humans it's a small area. 

499
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:31,720
So there there are going to be 
some natural through lines where

500
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,680
you could have outside of the 
pamphlets, adventures that that 

501
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,240
continue because of the cast of 
characters and the setting 

502
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,520
itself. 
It's very dynamic and temporary.

503
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,760
Like the they part, you know, 
the humans party during the day,

504
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,000
who knows what they're going to 
be left over at night. 

505
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,440
So there's that scavenging side 
of it too. 

506
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,000
Well, that's, you know, that's 
one thing that's great about the

507
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,360
estate, but just about 
adventures in journal and stuff.

508
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:58,280
Before the show started, we were
talking about like how we got 

509
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:03,280
into it and I got into it with 
5th edition and you know, a lot 

510
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,480
of people did. 
But you know, in retrospect, 

511
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,960
it's it's it's bad. 
I'm not even going to pretend 

512
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,800
it's not the way, the way the 
play culture of it is is not 

513
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,840
great. 
And it's designed to kind of 

514
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,600
like keep you in this almost 
like abusive relationship, but 

515
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,000
it. 
It it. 

516
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,720
Force feeds you story and then 
tells you the right way to play 

517
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,560
is basically by being a a 
storyteller and funneling people

518
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,320
through this like thing and I I 
that's how you're taught when 

519
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,360
you do it but eventually you go 
wait a minute and I'm now at the

520
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:39,640
point me and Hunter both through
this or all the play we've done 

521
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,280
and everything. 
I just want a list of 

522
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,440
characters. 
I want a list of locations and I

523
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,240
want kind of like what's going 
on and the narrative that 

524
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,680
emerges, the emergent narrative 
through play. 

525
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,680
What the players do is the story
and that's that's great. 

526
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:58,240
So so hearing and mouse Shredder
does such a great job of that 

527
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,840
where they just give you kind of
like what's going on and where 

528
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,800
you're at and let you play in 
it. 

529
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,480
And I think a lot of the what I 
really like about Mouse Shredder

530
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,120
month 2 is how so many projects 
are going to be able to 

531
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:13,800
crossover without ever meaning 
to. 

532
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:19,040
Because I could see Tales from 
the Night Market being right 

533
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,680
next to the amusement park for 
Rolling Coast. 

534
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,120
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

535
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,760
It could literally be like the 
bar like in in the amusement 

536
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,520
park or like right next to it or
something, a stall there. 

537
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:35,400
And the ability to basically do 
like you could tuck it into 

538
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,360
Rolling Coast and or vice versa.
Leave the market to go into The 

539
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,200
thing is great. 
And so many of those crossover 

540
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,320
semester happened. 
Same thing. 

541
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,600
Would they have like mech stuff?
And then you got mech writer and

542
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,120
like all this other shit. 
So it's really great to see. 

543
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,480
We had a conversation the other 
night because we never talked 

544
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:52,800
about it. 
We're like, dude, when does this

545
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,440
actually take place? 
We didn't even think about that.

546
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,720
You know, we had a bunch of 
stuff all around, but we're 

547
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,400
like, let's be fluid with that. 
Let's not really put a stamp on 

548
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,360
it where it's, you know, 16 
something or 18 something or 20 

549
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,320
something that's like, there 
might be a stuffed elephant, a 

550
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,680
rubber glove and a night helmet 
and who cares? 

551
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,560
Like, it it, it, it's a carnival
that it's probably in the prop 

552
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,280
booth. 
Like, we're not even worrying 

553
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,680
about that. 
We just want a fun sandbox, you 

554
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,200
know, not even, not like, not 
to. 

555
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,520
Yeah, it is a pun, but like the 
Rube Goldberg mousetrap, you 

556
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,000
know, like the game. 
I really saw one at Goodwill the

557
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,200
other day. 
I was looking through it. 

558
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,840
And I used to love that. 
Never played the game, but it 

559
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,840
was all like, how how do these 
things all connect and that. 

560
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,600
And to me, that's what you're 
doing. 

561
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,000
That's what I like to do in a 
role-playing game. 

562
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,480
You build a Rube Goldberg 
machine, you set up the things 

563
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,280
and hopefully they push the 
marble to that point, but if 

564
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,640
not, then it goes off on another
thing. 

565
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,840
It's really, it can be 
overwhelming when you're first 

566
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,640
starting in the hobby, you know,
like you want a script. 

567
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,920
But once you embrace that 
approach to game running or game

568
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,600
designing, it really is freeing 
both for the writer and I think 

569
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,120
for the people that experience 
it. 

570
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:11,240
Yeah, How has the experience of 
mouse Twitter month been like? 

571
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,920
So for for those who don't know 
kind of what's going on, like 

572
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,240
backer kit has become more and 
more is good and in my opinion, 

573
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:19,800
you know, capitalism is always 
capitalism. 

574
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,600
But Kickstarter, you know, 
Kickstarter is is Kickstarter 

575
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,280
back gets doing a really good 
job, I think of supporting 

576
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,240
creators and a lot of them 
they're doing these big months. 

577
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,120
So two times in a row now 
there's been mothership month, 

578
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,320
but now there's mouse router 
month. 

579
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,440
What has it been like? 
Because are you guys part of 

580
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,200
the, I can only assume Tiger 
Wizards Exalted and Exalted is 

581
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,440
kind of helping run the whole 
show. 

582
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,360
So I assume you guys are part of
the the 13 projects that are all

583
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:43,480
shipping out together from 
Exalted. 

584
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,880
How has that been to work with 
Tiger Wizard and Exalted and 

585
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,720
like Andre and Isaac and you 
know, talk to the other 13? 

586
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,000
Like has there been a lot of 
like big group stuff or you guys

587
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,160
just kind of like in your lane 
and letting it run where it 

588
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,840
goes? 
Tiger Tiger handles the business

589
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,960
end of things. 
That's his strong point. 

590
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,200
That is not my strong point. 
He's the he's the face, he's the

591
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,040
mover and the shaker, the deal 
signer and all that. 

592
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,800
So with with his, with his 
connection to Exalted Funeral, 

593
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,000
you know, he's kind of doing all
that stuff. 

594
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,640
The networking on my end. 
What I love is connecting with 

595
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,440
people that otherwise I might 
have not connected with. 

596
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,640
You know, there's a lot of indie
TTRPG designers, they're out 

597
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,720
right now and it's impossible to
keep up with everything. 

598
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,760
Both both knowing everything and
financially as I can see that 

599
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,160
you, you, you are a collector as
well. 

600
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,240
You got to get it all. 
That's right. 

601
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,120
No, it's like it's the older 
guys, you've many hands, you 

602
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,400
know, lift whatever it is. 
The rising tide lifts all ships 

603
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,200
or many hands make like work. 
When you get a bunch of people 

604
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:58,280
that are doing it for the love 
of the creativity or the game 

605
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,720
and you get together as a group,
that's how you can you can kind 

606
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,880
of go up against the Goliaths, 
which is what we're doing, you 

607
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,040
know, like because now the 
Goliaths have invaded 

608
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,880
Kickstarter and backer kit. 
You have large well funded 

609
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,440
companies that are are sucking 
up hundreds of thousands of 

610
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,720
dollars and you know whatever, I
got nothing against them but 

611
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:28,160
that backer kit and Kickstarter 
are not those craft fair 

612
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,840
entities. 
Everybody's in the mix now. 

613
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,840
Everybody's crowdfunding. 
You know people that that are 

614
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,240
making millions are 
crowdfunding. 

615
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:44,120
So with the little guys and gals
have to get together now to to 

616
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,960
kind of to make to get to have 
that presence. 

617
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,520
But the cool thing about that is
we all get stronger individually

618
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,000
from it and we are get more 
networking. 

619
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,840
So I'm excited to go to PAX now 
because it's going to be a whole

620
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,680
bunch of people. 
I'm like, hey, I'm doing the 

621
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,480
mouse rated thing too. 
I love what you're doing. 

622
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,040
Let's talk. 
What are you thinking about? 

623
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,120
What's your creative process? 
What's mouse rated to you? 

624
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,520
So go ahead Goliath, keep on 
getting bigger and putting those

625
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,680
backup kids because you just 
building stronger armies out of 

626
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,720
US basement people. 
Yeah, many hands lift all ships.

627
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,480
This is a new saying that I'm 
going to keep forever. 

628
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:24,280
But listen you you you can be 
you know very night. 

629
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,360
I won't be I I, I think it's 
bullshit and I think kicks 

630
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,360
Kickstarter's fault that they 
allow big companies to use 

631
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,160
crowdfunding as a pre-order 
store. 

632
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,920
Big companies that can 
absolutely like could just run 

633
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,080
it off their own fucking website
or could buy stock and just run 

634
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,120
like a real fucking publisher. 
They should not be allowed to 

635
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,400
crowd. 
They tell you Kickstarter likes 

636
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,800
to have its cake and eat it too,
where they will say you know 

637
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,000
you're, you're investing in the 
thing. 

638
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,080
You're not guaranteed rewards 
because you're investing, but 

639
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,760
then allowing people on the 
platform that don't need your 

640
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,000
investments at all that are just
using as a pre-order store and 

641
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,160
backer kits. 
Maybe a little bit better about 

642
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,600
that, but it's only because 
they're not as big as 

643
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,680
Kickstarter yet. 
Yeah, but there's a different, 

644
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,400
different vibe to backer kit a 
little bit at this point. 

645
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,880
I feel like there's a little bit
more supportive of creators like

646
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,360
maybe Kickstarter used to be and
I think maybe the CEO when I was

647
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,760
trying to be, but they're 
they're, they're too fucking big

648
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,120
like and it's still hard to 
break away from Kickstarter 

649
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:25,880
because unfortunately they're 
their reach is enormous. 

650
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,840
Like if you put a thing on 
Kickstarter, like 3/4 of your, 

651
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,560
your backers are going to be 
people that have never heard of 

652
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:31,800
you. 
And that's an insane number. 

653
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:32,880
Backer kit doesn't have that 
yet. 

654
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,880
But getting back to the point, 
it's some fucking bullshit. 

655
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,320
And these companies that are 
having $1,000,000 kickstarters 

656
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,400
using as a pre-order store 
should fuck right off. 

657
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,960
I will say though, I pity 
whichever month tries to take 

658
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,560
February because I think the 
Zine month people will burn shit

659
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:55,040
down if if if someone game tries
to fund for all month it it's 

660
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,840
going to break the entire TRBG 
space. 

661
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:02,160
So I can only hope the backer 
kit is is is informed enough to 

662
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:03,840
know never to do one in 
February. 

663
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,120
But we'll see. 
We'll see what happens. 

664
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,000
I mean, I know they did like 
Pocket Toby and stuff like that 

665
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,800
in March, which I think is a 
good kind of crossover. 

666
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,960
But yeah, that's some bullshit 
and and I won't, I won't not say

667
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,200
it. 
I've seen a big change just over

668
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:22,080
the past couple of years. 
When I first got started, I felt

669
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,760
I was I was entering during a 
Zine renaissance when it came to

670
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,520
gaming, particularly with 
Goodman Games. 

671
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,320
At that point they were really 
embracing and supporting and 

672
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,720
promoting third party 
publishers. 

673
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:41,560
It's changed, but Zine Month 
used to be very Zine Orient like

674
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,520
once again the basement people 
Zine oriented and that took a 

675
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:50,800
dip, but hopefully it's coming 
back and the the independent is 

676
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,800
actually independent. 
You know, I think that that 

677
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,360
definition or that that label is
being stretched a little bit too

678
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,360
far. 
Yeah, I mean I will say Goodman 

679
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:06,520
Games is not not guilty of using
Kickstarter as AI do like DCC. 

680
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,800
You should see my DCC stuff. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

681
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,000
But that's their musical now. 
They could afford to fucking 

682
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,960
publish their own shit without 
using Kickstarter as a pre-order

683
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,160
store. 
But I'm going to, I'm going to 

684
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,120
dance around the hole. 
Is indie still indie thing? 

685
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,840
Because that's a rant for 
another day. 

686
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,120
That's going to get me in 
trouble. 

687
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:26,560
Well, when you're ready, I'm 
here for it. 

688
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,960
I'm going to cross, we'll talk 
about it after the show. 

689
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,040
I'm going to cross that out 
there. 

690
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,760
Yes, I think post COVID was, 
I'll touch on it a bit. 

691
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,360
I think, and I've said this 
before on the show, post COVID 

692
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,280
was a if there was 1 silver 
lining for how fucked COVID was,

693
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,360
is I work in healthcare. 
It still happens. 

694
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,760
It's that a lot of people that 
were like, this exists because 

695
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,200
of COVID, you know what I mean? 
Like people had this thing 

696
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,480
inside them that they needed to 
express. 

697
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:59,160
And they have the time. 
And for a very brief period in 

698
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,640
in U.S. history, a modicum of 
support from the government kind

699
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,880
of a tiny little bit, not nearly
enough, but maybe a tiny crumb. 

700
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,600
And a lot of people took that 
thing that they always wanted to

701
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,920
make and they had the time to 
make it and fucking made it. 

702
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,720
So 2021 or 2020-2021, 2022, we 
had this renaissance of these, 

703
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,800
these amazing ideas and cool 
things, but I feel like everyone

704
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,320
just went blah. 
And then post 2022, we've kind 

705
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,440
of fallen into this, you know, 
very polished, very marketed, 

706
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,400
very Kickstarter first thing in 
the in the small market space, 

707
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,440
I'll call it that. 
You know, I it, that's the 

708
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,760
conversation for another day. 
But regardless, tales from the 

709
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:49,600
night market mouse writer month.
As far as the the whole putting 

710
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,120
it all together thing, you know,
I know you said that a lot of 

711
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,400
this stuff is still in outline. 
You're still working on stuff. 

712
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,960
How far along are you And when 
do you hope to to have it done 

713
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,640
to be able to start pushing, 
pushing it towards an out? 

714
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,560
Yeah, so we're, we're almost 
done with the writing part of 

715
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,200
it. 
We got that done very, very 

716
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,840
fast. 
We Tiger and I both are 

717
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,480
committed. 
Like I, I don't like waiting and

718
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,880
that's another pitfall or 
whatever sand trap of 

719
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,120
crowdfunding is waiting a year 
or two to get your thing. 

720
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,520
So that's what's cool about 
Mouse Rider is like we're all 

721
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,960
releasing at the same time. 
It's a mass fulfillment. 

722
00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:26,520
So we are on a schedule. 
So we've got in all the 

723
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,120
important, I would say the 
important stuff down. 

724
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,720
Like we know what the setting 
is, we know the NPCS, we know 

725
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:36,760
the the tricks, the riddles, the
prizes, all that. 

726
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,320
The cool thing is that we're 
taking a little bit of time on 

727
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,920
is the art. 
Now, I am not a visual artist by

728
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,520
trade. 
I dabble in acrylics just to see

729
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,240
how far I can push myself. 
I'm a, I'm always going to be a 

730
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:58,160
student now, my buddy Tiger 
wizard always poking and pushing

731
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,520
me and challenging me said, and 
you're going to do the art. 

732
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,880
I said, baloney. 
You're the artist man. 

733
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,000
Like I got his stuff hanging in 
my room down here. 

734
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,720
Like I frame his stuff. 
He sends me a note in the mail 

735
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:10,760
with the picture on it that goes
on the wall. 

736
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,880
Like he's brilliant, but he's 
like, no, you're going to, 

737
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,200
you're going to do, we're going 
to collaborate on the art and I 

738
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,840
want you to, to do the painting 
of the, the cover. 

739
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,520
I'm like, Oh my God, dude, I 
can't. 

740
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,440
Long story short, I pushed 
myself. 

741
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,520
He gave me some sketches, I do 
the painting. 

742
00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:30,920
So if you look at our project 
compared to the other projects, 

743
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,920
it's going to look a little 
different because it's mostly 

744
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,120
hand painted out of acrylic. 
It has a very children's book 

745
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,720
look to it. 
Not to knock the other projects,

746
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:45,440
their art is beautiful, but 
clearly they are they are 

747
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,480
confirmed, you know, studied 
illustrators where I'm a guy 

748
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,600
with the brush, you know, 
spazzing around with too much 

749
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,240
caffeine in me. 
And but but that's that's once 

750
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:00,200
again, we're trying to put 
another spin on it and bringing 

751
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,960
it back to it doesn't need to be
as polished as a pair of tap 

752
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,920
dancing shoes. 
I want it to be rough around the

753
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,760
edges. 
I want you to look at the 

754
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,840
painting and go, wait a second. 
That arm is a little bit bigger 

755
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,160
than that arm or the eyes aren't
symmetrical. 

756
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:16,840
I think there's a little bit of 
beauty. 

757
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,520
Than that you know it can't be 
perfect. 

758
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,320
So thank you Tiger Wizard for 
pushing me out of my comfort 

759
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,960
zone with that. 
Yeah, I'm excited. 

760
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,960
I mean, they said it at the top.
I things need to get weird and a

761
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,120
little bit less polished and and
and get it out and get people 

762
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:36,320
playing and and worry more about
the plate and OK, but I'm 

763
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,160
excited for it. 
I mean, if you go to the go to 

764
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,240
the back or get page, we'll 
obviously make sure that it's 

765
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:43,240
where where links are. 
Is all of this stuff that's on 

766
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:44,360
the back or get page? 
Is that you? 

767
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,600
Is that? 
The paintings, yes. 

768
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:52,520
So what I do is I, I, I do the 
base painting and then a tiger 

769
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:57,080
uses his graphic design magic to
add titles or to add some 

770
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,800
shading. 
There's a picture on that page. 

771
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,800
He blew me away, man. 
He's like, I need a 

772
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,000
weightlifting mouse. 
So he sent me a sketch. 

773
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:08,080
I turned it into a painting and 
then he did some effect where it

774
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,560
looks like there's a spotlight 
coming down on it. 

775
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,920
Like he just does these little 
touches of magic that that turns

776
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,440
my my stuff into into something 
a little bit more sparkly. 

777
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,360
And I love it. 
It's a really cool collaborative

778
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:25,360
kind of effect that we got going
on. 

779
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,040
Yeah, but that's, that's my 
stuff. 

780
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,600
So I'm learning. 
I'm learning a lot with my 

781
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:34,200
little dollar store panels and 
my brushes that I get in multi 

782
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,160
tax for 7 bucks. 
It's fun. 

783
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,920
Hey, that's awesome. 
And everybody start somewhere. 

784
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,760
And if it you're going to be 
doing tiger wizard stuff and in 

785
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,600
a couple of years hit that level
of quality for the scenes. 

786
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,200
And here's the thing, it's a 
fucking cheat code to be a teach

787
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,720
RPG designer that can do art. 
I I people like Charlie 

788
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:54,840
Fairgraves, Charlie Ferguson, 
Avery and stuff like that. 

789
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,480
People that were like like kind 
of artists 1st and then and then

790
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:58,960
creators. 
It's not fair. 

791
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,080
That's some bullshit because the
art budget is just as much time 

792
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:03,400
as you want to put into it, and 
it's not. 

793
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,880
Fucking fair that is. 
That's, you know, I think a lot 

794
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,800
of crowdfunded projects are for 
the printing but also paying 

795
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,840
artists, which you got to do. 
Got to do, yeah. 

796
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,240
With the cyborgs taking over and
everything like that, we don't 

797
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:20,160
have to get down that trail, but
everybody knows what I'm talking

798
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,000
about. 
The AI like we need to pay 

799
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,080
artists. 
So I look for every chance to 

800
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,040
incorporate artists, 
particularly when it's a 

801
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,080
crowdfunding thing. 
I only crowdfund when it's out 

802
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,960
of my price range. 
So like every, you know, sure 

803
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:40,200
whpa made 30, but half of that 
went to printing and then I got 

804
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,720
hit with tariffs and then they 
promised the family kitchen 

805
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:48,720
floor and the refrigerator. 
So I got that and the rest is 

806
00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:52,800
now I have some money to come 
out with 2-3 more scenes, you 

807
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,680
know, and then I'll crowdfund 
again. 

808
00:42:54,680 --> 00:43:00,720
But like, yeah, it's, it's a 
crowdfund when I have to a 

809
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,760
project like this where you have
like pamphlets and being part of

810
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,520
a crew and they have those. 
Have you seen the meeples? 

811
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,520
The little wooden figuring? 
God, I love the goddamn meeples.

812
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,160
The fact that it like not only 
do you get meeples, but then 

813
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,920
when I realized that there it 
was because there's a meeple for

814
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,400
every project so that there's 
like that's such a good whoever 

815
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,600
came up with that fucking 
genius, fucking genius. 

816
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,440
And I'm sure that was a lot of 
work, but you're probably like 

817
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,840
me. 
A lot of us are like we want the

818
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,000
prize in the bottom of the 
cereal box. 

819
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,160
You know, sure, we love the 
role-playing game, but give me a

820
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,480
little something I can put in my
pocket or put on the shelf. 

821
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:41,760
And then they nailed it. 
There's like 13 to 15 meatballs.

822
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,680
Like if I think if you buy if 
you back like 6 projects right? 

823
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,000
If you back I think it's 7 
projects, you get the meatballs 

824
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,080
I think. 
Yeah, you get all the meatballs,

825
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:53,800
I think. 
Yeah. 

826
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,440
Listen, one every project. 
Yeah, you'll definitely get all 

827
00:43:58,440 --> 00:43:59,720
the meatballs. 
Not like. 

828
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,480
You know what I missed? 
Call did that, yeah. 

829
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,320
To everybody out there in the 
audience you you get everybody 

830
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,760
who did what project had to 
submit one image of a mouse from

831
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,160
their adventure and they turned 
them into, you know, 1/2 inch 

832
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,800
wooden standees, you know, full 
color. 

833
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:21,400
So very, very cool premium. 
Yeah, it's again. 

834
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:26,080
We, we, we. 
I think we showed it off for God

835
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,960
damn it. 
I was, I was going to drag the 

836
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,840
picture over, but Steam Labs is 
being being dumb. 

837
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,920
We showed it off on the when we 
had my brain breaking, that's 

838
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,520
when we did it. 
Matt Morris on the show. 

839
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,840
But yeah, if you just do our 
master month over on backer kit,

840
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:44,120
it's they're so great. 
And I love that because they're 

841
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,720
specific to each project. 
Every meatball looks a little 

842
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:49,080
bit different, like different 
art styles, different 

843
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,920
everything. 
And you guys have the the the 

844
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,320
little it's like an orangey one,
but it's the it's the guy with 

845
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,240
like the fez, like looking down 
on the it's so great. 

846
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,840
It's so, yeah. 
You know, Andre, Andre, I know 

847
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,960
they're with games omnivorous. 
They're they're switching stuff 

848
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,440
up and now they're basically 
like making stuff with Isaac. 

849
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,800
We've had Andre on the show, 1 
of the nicest guys in the world.

850
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,560
So it's really cool to see to 
see that. 

851
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,920
And you know that if you're, you
know, you got games omnivorous 

852
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:17,240
working on something, it's going
to be great. 

853
00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:21,760
But yeah, the the the mix and 
match of of people that are in 

854
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,120
mouth shutter month from, you 
know, from from you guys, but 

855
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,920
Isaac and games omnivorous and 
then Matt Morris and then all 

856
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,480
the stuff that's going on behind
exalted and stuff. 

857
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,000
It's a it's a crazy amount of 
creativity all balled into like 

858
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,840
one month, which is not and. 
Their discord is awesome too, 

859
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,040
like I'm I've recently in the 
past year become kind of a 

860
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,240
discord fan with with my own 
with the get 100 industries one,

861
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,040
but this mouse rider one too. 
And like I said, it goes back to

862
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,720
that man, we're stronger 
together. 

863
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,160
So the the more of these 
projects where we can 

864
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,000
collaborate and really 
extrapolate on a product like 

865
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:02,720
mice space, like this. 
Look, every single mouse rider 

866
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:07,520
month project is completely 
different from the other one. 

867
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:10,600
Yet, like you said, they're 
they're portable. 

868
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,400
You can put you can put this one
and that one you could have a 

869
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,000
mech at the sideshow. 
You know, there's one about 

870
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,040
flying contraptions. 
They're they're just it runs the

871
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,200
gamut and it all works. 
That's why I think backer kid 

872
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,560
does have something special with
these, with these cross cross 

873
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,120
brand endeavors. 
I think they're really 

874
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,480
important. 
I think they will be the wave of

875
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,120
a future for a little bit. 
Well mechanizing the cross 

876
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,320
collab as well too. 
Having the the ability for 

877
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,520
projects to be like if you back 
both, you get something special,

878
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,000
not just like creator saying it,
but actually having it part of 

879
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,960
the thing. 
It's because Exalted Funeral 

880
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:49,160
decided to do like their thing 
where they went like Mothership 

881
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,480
month and and Mouse Shooter have
a project where if you back this

882
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,680
one over here, then you'll get 
and this one in mouse and in 

883
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,960
mouse Shooter month you'll get a
special crossover or whatever 

884
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,640
between like Mouse Rider and 
Mothership did it with the and 

885
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,960
so they're going to have like 
mice and space and shit. 

886
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,560
Yeah, it's crazy. 
Exactly. 

887
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,560
And that's why I love Exalted. 
They they are a very good 

888
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,800
advocate for the for the true 
indie creator. 

889
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,080
They still look out for the 
little guy and I appreciate 

890
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,720
that. 
And you guys are at, so every 

891
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:23,720
project funded, I think all, I 
think all but one funded on day 

892
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:25,480
one. 
And I think by day three, every 

893
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,120
project funded. 
So 16 out of 16 are funded. 

894
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:32,360
You guys have over 200 backers 
on your project with 20 days 

895
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,440
still left. 
Like what's crazy is everything 

896
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,360
funded so fast. 
And that's the weird thing about

897
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,960
having 30 day funding kind of 
things. 

898
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,200
It's just like it funds on day 
one and then you forget about it

899
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,520
for like 25 days until you get 
the reminder e-mail and you're 

900
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,440
like, oh wait, that's still 
going on. 

901
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:52,360
But you guys are at pushing 4 
grand with over 200 backers with

902
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,200
20 days left. 
So still plenty of time. 

903
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,880
And the, the mouse shorter month
in total is at almost $250,000, 

904
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,680
which is again great for great 
for all the little guys talk 

905
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:04,920
about your stuff though. 
I know you said you got you got 

906
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,720
the money leftover for three 
more zenes and then crowdfunding

907
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:10,040
again. 
Are we going to see more 

908
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,800
beautiful books with beautiful 
covers combining a lot of this 

909
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,160
stuff? 
Like what's your what's your 

910
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:19,520
plan for not mouth Shutter but 
weird heroes as far as the 

911
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,760
future? 
So Weird Heroes is going to 

912
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,880
continue with a couple more 
scenes coming out and then I am 

913
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,360
going to press pause, probably 
in the summer and think about 

914
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:35,120
what can I do in terms of 
collection or or another. 

915
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:39,040
It's always going to be scenes. 
WHPA, the main line, is always 

916
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,600
going to be scenes. 
I want them to be cheap looking 

917
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,120
or they are the cheap scenes 
that are for the masses that 

918
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,720
inspire people. 
That's my goal with the WHPA 

919
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,840
line. 
I'm going back to Ninja City. 

920
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,760
Ninja City is going to be the 
next produced project. 

921
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:03,880
I, I think I can talk about it. 
Brian Colon, who's an amazing 

922
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:08,000
inspirational creator that's 
Grim and everything else that he

923
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,800
does. 
He's got a printing company now.

924
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,840
He's got a giant printer in his 
house and we're he's he's asked 

925
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,640
me and a couple other creators 
to come up with some projects 

926
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,920
for a product. 
He's coming out with the battle 

927
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,600
binder. 
So like a mini Trapper keeper 

928
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,160
that's that contains that 
contains an RPG. 

929
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,560
So I'm going to use that 
opportunity to build out Ninja 

930
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:36,280
City not connected to DCC rules 
anymore. 

931
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,240
It's going to be its own 
portable thing. 

932
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:42,280
I'm actually going to use the 
5-Alive system that Neon Lord 

933
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,040
and Ham Bone came up with for 
their Zombie brain Eaters. 

934
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,760
And it's much more sit down, 
roll dice, kill stuff, fight 

935
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,040
kind of thing. 
Not the giant spell tables and 

936
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,240
all that. 
I want this to be really, hey, 

937
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:57,960
you know, we don't want to run 
this fight. 

938
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,760
Let's run Ninja City real quick.
Let's let's have fun and get 

939
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,640
nuts. 
So it's like once again, the, 

940
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:05,480
the junk food. 
So that's going to be very fast 

941
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,320
and quick and I'm adding part of
that project is going to be 

942
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:14,360
Dojos of Death, which is a easy,
quick ninja skirmish game. 

943
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,760
So after I went to under the 
dice, I went crazy. 

944
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,960
I never played Mordheim or any 
of that stuff, but seeing what 

945
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,520
those guys do and, and the scene
there, I'm like this, this is 

946
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,480
beautiful, man. 
It's like playing toys against 

947
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,560
playing GI Joe. 
So I I'm looking over here. 

948
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,520
I have like my cardboard houses.
I got my ninja minis over there 

949
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,920
for my birthday. 
I love the kids so much. 

950
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:42,800
Tiger Woods wizard sent me a box
of old Ralph Partha ninja minis.

951
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,240
So it's going to be if that's 
what it is, you got a ninja 

952
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:51,080
clan, you roll for your sensei 
and you roll for your Dojo and 

953
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,440
like through that you can 
customize like you know you're 

954
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,920
the water Dragons or the, you 
know, the blood tigers. 

955
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,360
So like that gives your clan 
different powers. 

956
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,560
So very quick, very fun. 
So that's that's going to be my 

957
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,000
next produced thing. 
That's that's hardcover. 

958
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,560
Stick as hell yeah, Skirmish I 
I've taken over the past couple 

959
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,960
months taking a hard turn. 
The high school podcast helped a

960
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,680
lot into Skirmish and you know 
it. 

961
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,880
The very, very much of the I 
feel like skirmish right now has

962
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,560
that like DIY or die mentality 
that I feel. 

963
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,480
Like. 
Indie that indie teach RPGs kind

964
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,760
of used to have, but it's kind 
of fading out and and and the 

965
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,040
scrimmage community is really 
still embracing it. 

966
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,640
I don't know if actually I don't
know if the act of actually 

967
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,840
having a hobby kind of helps 
keep it grounded in like the DIY

968
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,320
thing, you know, the kid bashing
and everything but man, I'm 

969
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,440
we'll talk more scrimmage. 
Trust me, whenever whenever this

970
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:47,960
call is on but. 
Yeah, dude, right. 

971
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,240
I I totally hear you about like 
that's where things are 

972
00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:54,560
happening when it comes to DIY 
and Indy, like going to under 

973
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,280
the dice and people just heading
out one page rules they came up 

974
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:01,760
with and like it's so there's 
some there's a flavor for 

975
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,560
everybody. 
Like I'm checking out that 

976
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:05,960
turnip stuff and I'm checking 
out more time. 

977
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,720
And then my favorite thing right
now is sun rot by Matt Ross, 

978
00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:12,200
which is I'm totally in love 
with man. 

979
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:16,600
I got at at under the dice con. 
They were doing sun rot tattoos.

980
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,760
So I got one of those. 
Like I went all in and I ran it 

981
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,200
and I think on and like the kit 
bashing the like, no rules, 

982
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,760
turning acorns into demons. 
Like I go out in the woods now 

983
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,120
that's my hobby shop. 
Put a little green stuff, put a 

984
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:31,440
little head on it. 
You can't beat that, man. 

985
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,560
I, I'm, I'm currently actively 
building Sun Rot boards in 

986
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,640
Tabletop Simulator so that I can
actually get to play Sun Rot 

987
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,400
because I, I got a copy and then
I backed the Kickstarter, got 

988
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,000
another copy. 
And then I, of course, I backed 

989
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,600
the, the metal minis that they 
put out so I can have more of 

990
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:47,800
it. 
And I've still, yeah, I've, I've

991
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,760
read the game like crazy. 
I'm not I so I literally have 

992
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:55,400
the thing right here on my desk.
I want to play so in bad. 

993
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,680
So at some point come hop into 
TTS with me and we'll play we'll

994
00:52:58,680 --> 00:52:59,680
play some sunrise. 
Oh. 

995
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:01,920
Definitely. 
Dude I was at, I was at. 

996
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,720
I went to Arcane Con boom last 
week in Northampton with my 

997
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:08,720
board. 
Never played a skirmish game 

998
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:10,320
before. 
I played like 10 minutes of 

999
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,840
sunrise with Matt the trader 
under the dice. 

1000
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,760
Got so inspired. 
Literally went into the woods, 

1001
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,160
got a bunch of branches hot 
glued to stuff together on a 2 

1002
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,480
by two board. 
So I went up and made some minis

1003
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,000
and I was all I was going to 
play test and have my kit, my 

1004
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,400
son and his friends come over 
and play. 

1005
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,120
Never happened. 
So I show up in the war room 

1006
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:34,240
with all these hardcore skirmish
dudes and I'm like, let's just 

1007
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:36,040
see what happens. 
And it was one of my favorite 

1008
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,880
gaming experiences of all time. 
Sometimes you just got to take 

1009
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,640
the seat belt off and press down
on the gas and it was fun. 

1010
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,040
Well, especially if it's like 
under the dice, like I, I 

1011
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,120
didn't, I haven't gone yet, but 
I'm, I will not miss it in 2026.

1012
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,440
I do not give a fuck. 
But their whole thing of just 

1013
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,600
like throw dirt on it like 
that's fucking fun. 

1014
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,080
Literally, of course, just hot 
glue some sticks together and 

1015
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,080
come play just sounds exactly 
like what what their whole vibe 

1016
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,640
seems to be like for me. 
So yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll 

1017
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,680
definitely get at that a little 
bit more. 

1018
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,520
But as far as Tales from the 
Night Market, but for you 

1019
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,800
specifically with weird heroes 
and everything, like where can 

1020
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,680
people find all of these things 
from you if they're looking for 

1021
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:17,840
weird? 
Heroes especially, I'm not 

1022
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:19,480
great. 
I don't have Instagram anymore. 

1023
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:23,240
Facebook, I'm not great with the
tech, but there is the the link 

1024
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:27,160
tree Get Haunted Industries. 
My Etsy has most of my stuff 

1025
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,600
that's in print that's Get 
Haunted Industries. 

1026
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:34,160
So search for that and then 
yeah, the mouse rider month is 

1027
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,600
all over backer kit. 
That's pretty easy to find. 

1028
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,920
And then I have a yet wanted 
industries YouTube channel 

1029
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:44,440
where, you know, I do my pizza 
party where I have creators come

1030
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,680
on and talk about what they're 
working on. 

1031
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:48,400
I got one this Wednesday coming 
up. 

1032
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,160
And then yeah, that's that's 
where you can find me the 

1033
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,680
Discord, the Etsy and on the 
YouTube. 

1034
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,120
Yeah, I, I, I did not get to 
tune into the pizza party. 

1035
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,880
Didn't you have didn't you have 
little goblin on a on a pizza 

1036
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,760
party? 
Recently I had oh man, time last

1037
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,680
month, man, I had Justin Sirois 
and I had Winnie little Goblin 

1038
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,800
on my my two home people and it 
was a blasted Halloween. 

1039
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:20,240
You're talking about vampires, 
you know, Sickest Witch and 

1040
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:25,560
Witty's game Night Thirst, which
is a vampire skirmish game. 

1041
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,440
But open it and they're they're 
going to be at PAX. 

1042
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,560
You're going to be at PAX. 
We'll get to throw a couple of 

1043
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,360
pizza slices around and have 
some fun. 

1044
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,840
There we go. 
Listen, Joey, thank you so much 

1045
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:37,880
for coming on. 
You. 

1046
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,720
You also said you would come 
back and run a game for us. 

1047
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:43,240
So this will not be. 
Yeah, this will not be the only 

1048
00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:45,000
time you see Joy Royale here on 
the show. 

1049
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,040
It's been an absolute pleasure 
to talk to you. 

1050
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,040
I hope you talk much more after 
this. 

1051
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:50,800
But thank you. 
Thank you so much for coming 

1052
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,360
here and, and and for being with
me today. 

1053
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:55,760
Keep on doing what you're doing,
man. 

1054
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,360
Thanks for thanks for giving us 
little guys a voice. 

1055
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,680
I appreciate it of. 
Course, we, we, we try. 

1056
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,320
I'm trying to give voices. 
There's just so many games, you 

1057
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:05,600
know, But we'll, we'll see how 
it goes. 

1058
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,600
But thank you all for listening.
We appreciate it. 

1059
00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:10,640
Joey, again, thank you so much 
for being here and we will see 

1060
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:11,880
you all later. 
Bye.