1 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,440 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll podcast. 2 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,280 My Name Is Ryan. And I'm a fan of minimalist 3 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,000 RPGs. And we have a very special guest 4 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,280 with us today. It's entree of Games Omniverse. 5 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,120 How you doing this morning or evening, Andre? 6 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:29,880 Yeah. Happy evening for me. 7 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,200 Morning for you guys. Thanks so much. 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,800 I'm doing great. It's a great pleasure to be 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,520 here. I've been a fan of this, of your 10 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:43,080 podcast for, you know quite a few times, quite a quite a quite 11 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:44,600 a few years now. You started. 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,760 When did you start this podcast? Like a year or two ago. .1. 13 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,280 It was like, it was like November 2021. 14 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,600 Yeah, we did our Merc Borg episode in like November 21. 15 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,720 Yeah, cool. Yeah, I've been a fan and I saw 16 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,520 the reviews you did of the games we published, and I'm really 17 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,120 happy to be here with you. Thank you. 18 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,840 Because we're like we're, it's fun because we're massive fans 19 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:09,920 of you in your work, so this works out great. 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,920 This is definitely one of those one of those times where you're 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,280 just like kind of fanboying a little bit because we're like, 22 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:19,560 you know, you're like to hear you say that you enjoy our stuff 23 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,680 is crazy because you know your stuff is some of the favorite, 24 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,520 you know some of my favorite stuff I have on my entire shelf. 25 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,120 So that's that's really it really feels great to to hear 26 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:29,400 you say that. Thank you. 27 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:34,000 So, so yeah, I mean, well, you know, I also want to say it 28 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,680 right off the bat. I haven't posted this online 29 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,000 yet, but I do want to say thank you for this. 30 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,440 This is a grail that Andre sent me out of nowhere. 31 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,040 Like, I just, I think I said something on Twitter that was 32 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,880 like, Oh my God, I'd like, I don't remember what I said, like 33 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,680 I'd like sacrifice my newborn child or something for one of 34 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,320 these. And I just got a message that 35 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,760 says, hey, what's your address? And and I got that and the first 36 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,920 Dead Robots album. So, so thank you so much for 37 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,600 that. I, I generally, you know, can't 38 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:00,760 tell you how much I appreciate that. 39 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:02,920 So no. It's it's definitely in good 40 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,920 hands. I'm happy to. 41 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,000 I'm happy that you have it, that you have it now. 42 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,639 I only have like, I have like, can you can you see there? 43 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,200 Yeah, so I have like 3 or 4 left. 44 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,760 Those two up top, they're just the boxes with a bunch of tokens 45 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,400 that are using my game. So I only have like three of 46 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,760 those left. But I'm happy that you you have 47 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,880 one one of those with you. I'm very. 48 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,520 Excited for those in podcast Land, because I don't think 49 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,880 we've said it at all. It's the it's the first mouse 50 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,920 rotor box set and it's I I just I can't the the flowers and and 51 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:36,320 stuff on it and the texture hunter you got it you got to 52 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,040 feel this sometime but. Someday. 53 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,120 Anyway, Games Omnivorous. This is why we're here to talk 54 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,280 about this. You're you're a fantastic 55 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,680 publisher of minimalist games and you call them art house 56 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,880 games as well. Everything that comes out from 57 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,760 Games Omnivorous is so incredibly well done, so well 58 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,000 produced and and the games you choose to to put out are 59 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,840 absolutely fantastic. So I guess if we go like all the 60 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,560 way back to the beginning and then we'll get to talking about 61 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,640 all that what, what kind of what got you into TTRBGS in the 1st 62 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:06,760 place, like what was your, what was your first game and and what 63 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,760 kind of got led to to where we're at right now? 64 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,720 OK, that's so we need to go back like to the 90s. 65 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:22,360 God, I feel old. So you know, I I play games as 66 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:27,640 you know forever as as far as I can remember, you know, myself 67 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:34,960 almost I I I've been playing games I think I started in 93 or 68 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,400 something with Magic the Gathering. 69 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,680 I think that's the first game that I remember playing and 70 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:46,760 being into properly and then it kind of, you know unwrapped from 71 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:52,760 from there to you know board games and other card games and 72 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,160 obviously let miniature games. I was really into Blood Bowl, 73 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:01,800 not not War Warhammer like the the the proper Warhammer. 74 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,640 I don't know how how you called. I was really into Blood Bowl. 75 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,600 Game, right? Yeah, it's like fantasy American 76 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,560 football, but very bloody and very silly. 77 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:13,920 And it's just fantastic. It was. 78 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,040 So I was really into that at some point. 79 00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:18,480 And then I started playing role-playing games. 80 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,120 I don't know, maybe in the I I played a little bit in like the 81 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,640 late 90s, maybe early 2000s. And I played, you know, mostly 82 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,280 Dungeons and Dragons, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, probably 83 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:34,600 second edition, maybe third. At some point I also played, but 84 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,080 when I really started playing, you know, role-playing games 85 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,640 more seriously and more consistently was maybe around 86 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,720 2010, two 1011, so about 10 years ago. 87 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:54,760 And the game that definitely drove me into the hobby was 88 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,880 Dungeon Crawl Classics. That was the game that that 89 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:02,560 pulled me in. It was the so I I I kind of 90 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,960 started so, so I I played a little bit when when I was a 91 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,560 teenager in D&D as I, as I said in the late 90s, early 2000s. 92 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,800 And then for like some years I I didn't play much. 93 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,880 And then I, you know in the era of the first retro clones or you 94 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,320 know the old school revival or whatever you want to call it, 95 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:29,520 the game that that that drew me in was was was Dungeon Call 96 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,280 Classics. And I I became such a fan of the 97 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:35,240 game. And you know when when you're 98 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:42,920 into the, when you're in the OSR is Sphere or whatever, NSR or I, 99 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,560 I don't know what people call it these days, but kind of like 100 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,600 this old school kind of vibe thing. 101 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,600 You're almost like when when you're a player, you're a game 102 00:05:54,600 --> 00:06:00,960 master and you're almost a game designer as well, you know what 103 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,640 I mean? Because you like the way you 104 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,440 know the games are built and the way they are compatible with one 105 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:08,920 another. And then their settings and 106 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,040 there's adventures. You always thinker with the 107 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,400 system. You always thinker with with the 108 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,480 modules with the campaigns with with what you want to offer to 109 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,960 your players to your group. So I kind of started you know 110 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:26,600 doing my own thing with several games but for many years it was 111 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,120 just a hobby. It was just a hobby. 112 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,840 I was just happy to play games with my group and honestly 113 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:34,400 that's that's that's kind of still what I enjoyed the most is 114 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,400 game design and and presenting that game design to my group and 115 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,200 see their reaction and that's that's that's kind of like what 116 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:47,000 I what I still like the the most But then in I think it was in 117 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:54,960 2019 it was the year that my my daughter was born and in that 118 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,640 same year I don't I don't like obviously you sleep a lot less 119 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:06,080 and you have a lot more headaches of of of all sorts. 120 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:12,360 But one thing that I found that that having a daughter was that 121 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:17,360 there's also like for me at least there was a creative 122 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,000 impetus or something. There was there was I don't know 123 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:26,600 I felt very creative when after becoming a dad and I started you 124 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,520 know maybe I should do a publisher maybe. 125 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,560 You know there's there's a lot of people I I I followed a bunch 126 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,120 of people mostly on on Instagram people like I don't know Diogo 127 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,160 Nugator for instance, which was a good friend. 128 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:45,000 I'm I'm, I'm sure you you know Diogo as well and you know I 129 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:50,080 started you know maybe I should also do or try to create the 130 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,120 publisher see where this goes. I had some ideas. 131 00:07:54,280 --> 00:08:00,560 I had some, you know, I had some thoughts on where I wanted or 132 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,960 how I I envisioned the identity of this publisher. 133 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:10,840 And then it it kind of started with some context and and yeah. 134 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,600 And here we we are and here we are today. 135 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:15,960 Four years after I actually, yeah. 136 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,560 Almost four years after Game Zoom never started. 137 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,680 I feel like like the pandemic obviously broke all our brains 138 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,520 as far as like time. Also like I feel old now, which 139 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,200 is weird. I told someone that someone else 140 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,039 was middle-aged today. Then I was like, wait a minute. 141 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:35,400 I'm. Middle-aged? 142 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,440 So like, what's what is that? But it feels like longer than 143 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,000 four years. Yeah. 144 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,480 We all know 20/19 was a week ago and also ten years ago at the 145 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,080 same time, yeah. Exactly. 146 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,560 Yeah. I think the first thing I saw 147 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,000 from Games Omnivorous was the manifestos. 148 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,680 Omnivorous. Was that the first thing that 149 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:57,440 you you started with when you were when you started 150 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:58,880 publishing? Yeah. 151 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:04,840 So we started the the the the company started with basically 152 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:11,000 three releases which were the 17th century minimalist which is 153 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:15,080 a game that that that that I that I wrote and and and design 154 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:23,520 and then two manifestos omnivorous interpretations and 155 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:30,280 and we also had some other stuff in the works by then But those 156 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,320 three releases were the ones that kicked off like when when I 157 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,680 had the site pretty much done and I pressed you know I pressed 158 00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:41,640 the button to go live. That's what we were selling back 159 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:51,120 back then and and so those those and the idea for for for the to 160 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:56,760 kick off games Omniverse did like the agenda was mostly to do 161 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:05,000 some to bring into the OSR or to contribute further because 162 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,480 there's obviously good and lots of of excellent people doing 163 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:11,560 doing that. And pursuing that agenda was to 164 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:17,760 do more artistic and conceptual stuff within this this niche 165 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:22,440 this this this this sphere let's call it that. 166 00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:27,880 So the the idea with the manifestos Omnivorous was was to 167 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:34,640 do a collection and an RPG Zine collection that was, you know 168 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:40,920 based on an artistic manifest. So there's a bunch, you know 169 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,320 there's there's a lot of of artistic manifests out there. 170 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:52,520 We, we, we, we, we were inspired by the, the one, the the 171 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:57,280 Scandinavian movies, the Scandinavian film, I think it's 172 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:02,080 called Dogma 95 or something. And we were inspired by early 173 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,160 20th century artistic manifests as well. 174 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,120 And we kind of created this idea of, you know, let's put together 175 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:14,520 an artistic manifest with 10 like rules or guidelines and and 176 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,640 give those to authors we like and admire and let them 177 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:23,280 interpret that and the and let them interpret the manifest 178 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,240 however they want. And come up with with a book. 179 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,600 And the idea there was obviously to do something conceptual to 180 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:35,520 create like an artistic space individually the modules. 181 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,560 It doesn't, it doesn't really matter if the interpretation is 182 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,120 is you know, better here or worse there or you know, if it's 183 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,320 more faithful here or less faithful in that one. 184 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:52,720 The idea was to create like an artistic space and then to 185 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,480 compliment that we were doing very minimal and light rules 186 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,000 game with a focus on graphic design layout. 187 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,040 How we present the physical format is very important to us. 188 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:11,560 How we present games to the players and the readers and and 189 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:17,320 obviously we wanted also to do something really unique and 190 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,360 weird and original and very conceptual. 191 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,520 And so that Robo Jungle was also in the works then and it was 192 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,720 released a couple of months after the company started. 193 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:34,720 And the idea there being, you know, to kind of somehow create 194 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,120 something that's, you know, it can also be appreciated just by, 195 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,000 you know, by people that don't play games, that just listen to 196 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,160 music. But to create something very 197 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:50,120 original, create a setting, a proper setting, a a gamable 198 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,400 universe as we call it, that is not presented as a book. 199 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,280 That was the main, the, the main drive like for for that, for 200 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:03,320 that specific release. Because usually when when people 201 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,360 say, you know, here's a new setting, I have a new setting, 202 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,120 it's almost exclusively a book, right. 203 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,200 It's almost presented in the format of a book. 204 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,880 So we try to do something different, something unique. 205 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:22,320 And the the main agenda I have, like I have a phrase here that I 206 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:27,280 have, that I have in my wall that I never had the courage to 207 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,200 to publish because I don't know maybe it sounds arrogant or 208 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,240 something but what we're trying to do since the beginning, since 209 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,920 these first releases that you know well you got me going. 210 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,200 So I please tell me when to shut up. 211 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:41,720 No, keep going. No, this is this. 212 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,040 Is This is why we do this, So keep going. 213 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,720 So the the phrase is trying to blur the lines between games, 214 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,640 art, music and literature. Probably failing that that's 215 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,200 something that I always wanted to to to to put out there is 216 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,400 like games on reverse mode and I like maybe I will someday but 217 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,520 that's kind of how I think about the company. 218 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:08,360 We're like we're we're not exactly an RPG publisher we're 219 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,600 actually an arts brand that happens to specialize in games 220 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,040 that's how that's at least how I think about games on reverse 221 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:21,760 right from the start and and yeah I was very fortunate to 222 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,600 meet people that kind of had this vision and went along with 223 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:31,560 with the project and maybe the at the beginning at least most 224 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:37,120 importantly were the Lena and and Nando who are our in house 225 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,440 designers. They're a couple that lives in 226 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:45,240 the north part of Portugal, and they they're they they are, they 227 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,800 are graphic designers that have nothing to do with games. 228 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,480 They hate playing games. They know nothing about games. 229 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:57,080 They they do a lot of work for like the artistic Milia in 230 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:05,000 Portugal, like literature, poetry, performance, different 231 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:10,160 arts and art spaces. And kind of the idea was they 232 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:15,400 brought some of that, you know, minimalist and artsy aesthetics 233 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:21,280 to the role-playing industry via games on Nivers. 234 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,480 So that's kind of like, so this is, you know, all of this to say 235 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,480 that this is kind of what started games on Nivers, our 236 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:36,400 agenda kind of like what we envision ourselves doing. 237 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,000 And yeah, that's that's mostly it. 238 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,000 I really appreciate your the very like artistic forward take 239 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,880 that you take with games on Nimbus. 240 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,960 It's interesting we were talking to Watt from Cloud Empress last 241 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,120 yesterday also discussed really like this, trying to be more of 242 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,920 an artistic pursuit than like more or less creating content to 243 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:04,400 be consumed for them. Like the kind of art forward 244 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,240 like minimalist RPGs that you have. 245 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:11,640 How do you find because you have like a limited offering of like 246 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,280 your minimalist RPGs, but they're so like robust and 247 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,520 within a single like like Vaultivar and or haunts Almanac 248 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,760 or mouse Ritter. Like you have these beautiful 249 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,760 experiences, like how do you find these creators or do they 250 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:30,400 find you and how do you decide what fits with your like? 251 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:36,560 Vision. Well, for instance, with Mouse 252 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:42,840 Ritter, it was mostly me chasing Isaac for a couple of months 253 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,120 before he said yes to to publishing with us. 254 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,520 So the story is I played the game right when I was starting 255 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,160 games of Niverse. So this was probably January 256 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,840 2020. And there was a friend here, 257 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,920 Andre Tavage, who who was like, oh, you know, I found a game on 258 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,720 itch about little mice, you know, in a dangerous world. 259 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:16,079 And I was like, yeah, OK, you know, like, do I care about 260 00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:17,480 this? Do you know what I mean? 261 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,680 Like, do I want to play this? He's like, no, you should try 262 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,160 it. And I was like, OK, let's let's 263 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,040 go. I completely fell in love with 264 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:30,120 the right at character creation, like, what Isaac did with Mouse 265 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:35,760 Richer is absolutely incredible. Like the design, his minimalist 266 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,520 style, it's really the compact layout, the way he thinks about 267 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,360 the game, the tools that he offers, how the adventures are 268 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:48,800 presented in, in very minimalist, in a very minimalist 269 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,880 style. It's so good. 270 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:57,160 And so in line with, I think you know, Mouse Reader is to some 271 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:03,040 extent we defined how Mouse Richer would be presented to the 272 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,760 world. But Mouse Richer was an 273 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,760 absolutely elementary piece in defining what games and universe 274 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,720 is and how and what games and universe wants to show and 275 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,840 present to the world. So Isaac is a really good friend 276 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,320 now and I'm so happy to that he said, yes, it's funny because he 277 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,920 was like, Oh no, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to. 278 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,920 I I do this just for this, you know, very do it yourself style. 279 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:31,360 I want to keep control of things. 280 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,560 I'm like, yeah, but you keep control of everything. 281 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,400 Just let me publish it. You have the copyright. 282 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,200 And so after a few months, he saw the insectary. 283 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,280 I remember he he talking, he talked about the insectary, 284 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,760 which was a little scene that we did at the start of the company 285 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,000 and he was like, oh, this is very impressive in terms of of 286 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,400 game design maybe, yeah, maybe. In terms of graphic design maybe 287 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,160 Let's do mouse read. So when he said yes, yeah, we 288 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:02,160 started, I started working with Isaac and trying to create 289 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,600 because mouse read existed as a PDF only. 290 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:09,720 So we had to do what we call product development and product 291 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,560 design is how and that's that's the thing that that I that I'm 292 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,000 that I'm that I think that I do the best these days. 293 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,680 This product design is people you know presenting an idea to 294 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,280 me and I work with the designers and people here and the printer 295 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,320 to how can we make this really special physically. 296 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,360 And that's kind of the work I think we did with Mouse Reader. 297 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:38,160 So in the case of Mouse Reader, it was definitely me chasing 298 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,560 Isaac around for a bit And then for instance with Frontier Scam 299 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:48,280 we was completely the opposite. Like Carl Druid sent me almost 300 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,080 the finished version of the book and he was like, do you want to 301 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,840 publish this? I was like, yes, I want to 302 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,360 publish this. This is really good in most 303 00:19:57,360 --> 00:19:59,240 cases. You know a lot of people send me 304 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,880 stuff and in most cases it's not. 305 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,760 I don't think it's in line with with with what we're trying to 306 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,440 do or the timing is not right. But these are the two extremes. 307 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,920 Some sometimes I really like something and I try to convince 308 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:19,640 people to to be published by us. Other times it's just, you know, 309 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,360 people sending us stuff and then we we we go, we go through it 310 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:28,000 and we we create the project. Yeah, So it's, it really 311 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,160 depends. There's there's not one formula 312 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,920 there. Totally makes sense. 313 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,360 In terms of like what what you were saying about, if I can just 314 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:41,040 add one thing that I find really interesting about about Mouse 315 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,920 Reader and even even in those more even in our our like this 316 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,120 is such a silly thing to say. But even in our most mainstream 317 00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:53,520 games and Mouse Reader is definitely the most mainstream 318 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,680 game we have is is the one that has the biggest like I think 319 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:04,240 that Mouse Reader like the sales for Mouse Reader are actually 320 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,600 higher than everything else combined at games which is 321 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,520 something that that's really mind blowing but but it's just 322 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,160 how you know it's how it is. It's like it's such a 323 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,920 phenomenon. Mouse Reader is such a 324 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,080 phenomenon. I'm really happy to to to have 325 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,000 published it with with Isaac. But one thing that you were 326 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:28,280 talking about like even in these more mainstream ish games, how 327 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:33,200 do we, how do we make them art scene somehow and conceptual And 328 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,240 one thing that I think we almost did that inadvertently to be 329 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,240 honest. But if you look at what we did 330 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:47,120 with the estate, I think it's a very unique idea in even in the 331 00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:52,120 OSR space. So normally you have like a 332 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:56,120 designer or a company or a creator creates the Canon for 333 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:58,240 the game, right? So here's the game how I 334 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:03,120 presented, how I envision it, how I see it, the aesthetics, 335 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,880 how I usually think about it and how I present it to the world, 336 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,880 right. And then they have like a third 337 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,200 party license where they let people do whatever they want 338 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,200 with them and whatever they they they wish to do right with, with 339 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,320 with that game. What we did with the estate was 340 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,000 something unique and very in some and and bit conceptual 341 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,080 somehow which is you know we also have the Canon with the 342 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,560 Mouse Reacher box set and we also have the third party 343 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,240 license. But what we did to the estate 344 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:38,720 was create an official product that brings 11 different visions 345 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,840 from 11 different creators for mouse reachers. 346 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:48,600 So even in the case did, the estate is kind of like and a a a 347 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,400 mess and a mesh of different interpretations of mouse reader. 348 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,760 And making that an official product I think is a very unique 349 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,600 thing and I think it worked out really, really well. 350 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,480 So, yeah, I also wanted to highlight that. 351 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,560 Yes, I think every single person who's and been in contact with 352 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,200 the estate as as like a game and product is like, yeah, this is a 353 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:17,120 massive success so. Yeah I you know we love MASH 354 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,320 ROTOR as a game it's it's absolutely fantastic like you 355 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,840 said what what Isaac did with with into the odd and and Karen 356 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,680 and with with mice and everything is fantastic. 357 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:30,680 But I will say if it was printed like differently like I don't 358 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,240 know if it would still have the the reach and success that it 359 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:39,680 does the the mouse or box set is so stunningly well put together 360 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,480 and crafted and so well thought out. 361 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,080 Like you open it up and you're like I even have like a marker 362 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,960 and I have all of these punch out things and everything. 363 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,920 It's so beautiful. And then this state just feels 364 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,520 like, like it does feel artistic, like it feels like 365 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,400 this luxury item you have with it and like H1 being like this 366 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,400 specific color, which kind of reminds me of the manifest of 367 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:02,920 omnivorous kind of vibe a little bit too. 368 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,400 How they can only be like two colors and everything in H1 and 369 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,560 gets its own vibe and color. I mean together, you know, it 370 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,840 does. It feels like a luxury TTRBG 371 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,240 item. And still, I mean it's still 372 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,160 pretty affordable for for you know, 2 box sets to come with 373 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,600 it. But yeah, like, I don't. 374 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,960 I don't if if someone else would have published it with a 375 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,360 different vision, I I'd be curious to see if it would be as 376 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:30,520 successful as it is because of what you brought to it and and 377 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,080 just how well it fits what it was also trying to be. 378 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,200 Mm hmm. Thank you. 379 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,680 Thank you so much for the kind words. 380 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,840 Yeah, that's exactly what what what we tried to do. 381 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:46,760 I think Isaac had such a fantastic game and idea and we 382 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:52,760 tried to you know elevate it further somehow and and 383 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:58,000 presented in in the best way we we could think of and and yeah 384 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,200 the estate is is exactly you're exactly right the estate all the 385 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,560 the modules in the estate are printed in just two colors so 386 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:12,000 combined they look like a rainbow but individually they 387 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,040 they're only two colors and they have really different 388 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,880 aesthetics. So we didn't, we didn't want the 389 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:22,480 the creators that we invited to do this. 390 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:28,520 We didn't want them to feel like they had to be constricted or re 391 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,520 or or they needed to fit or to adjust or adapt their style. 392 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,480 Two months future. We just wanted you know do your 393 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:42,320 thing, do you know do put your own style in your heart into 394 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,840 doing like a mouse richer adventure and we will try to 395 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:52,600 somehow create the coherence afterwards with this. 396 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,080 So that was the hard part with the estate because we invited 397 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,960 authors and were like do whatever you want. 398 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,480 The original idea of the estate was like the original idea was 399 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,040 do an adventure, and we weren't even thinking of creating a 400 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:10,880 connection between the adventures. 401 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,040 And then one day I was talking to Isaac and it's like someone 402 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:21,160 did grandfathers talk and someone did an armor and someone 403 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:26,440 did something like a little Chapel abandoned Chapel and and 404 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,040 and I was like OK maybe this doesn't this all fit in like one 405 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,760 of these rural estates kind of like like and we started 406 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:40,800 thinking about that after. So I think we we gave a lot of 407 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,520 creative freedom to to to the creators and I think it turned 408 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:50,120 out you know really it it it made a unique a very unique 409 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,680 release. It's not it's not common that 410 00:26:52,680 --> 00:27:00,120 you see an official release for such a known game have so many 411 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:03,040 different aesthetics inside it's it's very uncommon. 412 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,200 So I think we're very, we're very happy how that unfolded. 413 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,360 Yeah. We are too. 414 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,080 I mean, it's like I. Think we all are. 415 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:14,800 Yeah, I think we're all. It's just like. 416 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,840 I said you, you really knock the park knocked out of the park 417 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,240 with that one. And you know aside from Astro, 418 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,560 two of the two of the big games you have are we we talked about 419 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,760 a little bit was Frontier Scum, which recently had a Kickstarter 420 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,000 to do a new version of that in Baltimore as well. 421 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,400 So you said Carl Druid came to you with Frontier Scum basically 422 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,280 done. And I know Carl was on and we 423 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,000 talked a little bit about the cover and stuff like that. 424 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,800 But what what what was, what was kind of the difference between I 425 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,880 know you said you chased on Isaac and and and Carl came to 426 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,240 you. But like what? 427 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,240 What, what makes the difference when you actually sat down to 428 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,200 produce that, when you when you were given something that was 429 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,480 basically done, like what? What did you need to do to get 430 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,440 that into our hands with with the, the cover and everything 431 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,920 that we have now? So yeah, I think the first 432 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:07,040 version that I saw of Frontier Scum had about 40 something 433 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:13,320 pages and then it it expanded into 60 or so pages, which is 434 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,400 the current version. So we definitely it was, it was 435 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,680 it was pretty much done a game. But I thought it would be cool 436 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,360 if Carl expanded some bits and I said, you know, maybe you should 437 00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:30,600 do like kind of like an NPC generator or some loot or some, 438 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,720 you know, say add more stuff to the book, which he agreed to. 439 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,080 And then he worked a bit on that. 440 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:45,680 Frontier scom also started as a Morburg compatible product, like 441 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,760 a more hack. I don't necessarily like the 442 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,480 word hack, but it was like kind of like a Morburg hack, right? 443 00:28:54,040 --> 00:29:01,120 And I said to I told Carl, look, we really love this, but we're 444 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,200 not. We're not in terms of what we 445 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,880 publish and how we vision games and we're not a company that 446 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:17,680 wants to publish content like content for other games. 447 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,160 You know what I mean? I'm not this is not in terms of 448 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,040 to preserve the identity of games omnivorous and what we're 449 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,200 doing. And so I told, I asked and I 450 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,520 suggested to Carl if he was OK with you know, kind of like 451 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,360 rewriting some bits of the setting here and there to make 452 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,320 it. You know, obviously Mark Borg is 453 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,560 one of probably the greatest, the biggest inspiration for 454 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:50,400 Frontiers Come, but not make it a complete hack somehow of the 455 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,680 game. So that changed a bit then and 456 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:58,520 then when we had like a final PDF, the challenge there was how 457 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,600 do we present, like how do we physically make this book? 458 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,960 How do we present this book to the world and the challenge 459 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:13,000 there in terms of like my, my our idea here, me and like I 460 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,520 talked, obviously talked with in house designers and Carl was 461 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,800 always part of the conversations obviously. 462 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,600 And we were like, how can we create something that at the 463 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:28,880 same time feels and looks premium but also beat up at the 464 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,720 same time And roughed up like that was that was kind of like 465 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,720 what drove us in terms of the concepts or to find the the 466 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:44,240 final product here because we frontier scum, you know, being 467 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,680 frontier scum, a 19th century ish, you know, acid western 468 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,040 trip. It kinda made sense that the 469 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,040 book looked kind of like unfinished somehow or beat up. 470 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,240 But also we don't want, we didn't want to present something 471 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,000 to to our players in our readers that you know, looked like shit, 472 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,880 Obviously so. It's a fine line, you know. 473 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,160 So what can we do here? And we had lots of it. 474 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,040 Like one of I remember one of the ideas was doing like a 475 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,160 leather cover, kind of like looking looking like an old 476 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,000 Bible somehow, you know, this old Bible. 477 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,200 But the problem there was that the book is only 60 pages. 478 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,800 So in terms of the the thickness of the book is is not it's, it's 479 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,080 not. We didn't have much to work with 480 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,600 in terms of the thickness of the book. 481 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,720 So it would look a bit odd. It would look, it would probably 482 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,880 look like a restaurant menu with that, with that thickness. 483 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:48,640 You know what I mean? Yeah. 484 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,280 So we had, yeah, we had to think about something else and doing 485 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:57,200 like the exposed binding with like a crude stamping on top of 486 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:04,920 the rock, I think it turned out pretty cool and and well we did 487 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,400 won a nanny for it. So I think it's validated out 488 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,600 there at large. When did you all decide on the 489 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:21,720 Like Magazine esque aesthetic for Frontier scum? 490 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,200 Because that's a very like. There was already a part of it 491 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:31,560 when when I received the first PDF and that was an absolute, 492 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:37,760 you know, factor in me wanting to to publish Frontier SCOM. 493 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,480 It was already presented like that. 494 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:45,000 Then Carl drew it. I mean, Isaac is is is also 495 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,280 really, really good and is a genius with compacted tight 496 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:53,360 layout. But Carl in terms of like layout 497 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,280 and graphic design is just unbelievable. 498 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,000 He's really, really, really good. 499 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,840 And so it was when when I first saw From Tears come, it was 500 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,440 already with that aesthetics. And that was definitely a factor 501 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,880 in me wanting to to publish it. That makes a lot of sense. 502 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,680 It is. It's like in a really amazing 503 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,000 presentation. And yeah, I think it also hits 504 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,120 that very like unique. And I, I and I obviously, you 505 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:23,120 know, I'm for all that I have said for the past half an hour 506 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,520 or so. Obviously for me like design, 507 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,080 text and art, they're all equally important. 508 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:37,720 It's it's not like the text is, is is the most important thing. 509 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,040 And then layout, you know, it's everything combined contributes 510 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,840 to the experience of reading and playing and immersing yourself 511 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,800 in that setting in that world, in that book. 512 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:52,560 So that's all for me, equally important. 513 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,720 So when somebody sends me stuff, if they just send a text, I'm 514 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:03,160 usually not, you know, I need to, I need to understand the 515 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,520 vision that someone has in terms of aesthetic, the aesthetic 516 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,760 vision that somebody has for that, for that project, for me 517 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,040 to kind of like feel it somehow and feel the connection to it 518 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,000 and feel and feel excited to to be a part of it. 519 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:22,120 So, So yeah, I think that's definitely a factor in in 520 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:29,199 everything, in everything we do. So I mean specifically about 521 00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:32,440 Frontier Scum as well and you talk about the text when 'cause 522 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,639 I know Brian Yacha did a lot of the setting writing for that 523 00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:38,639 too. Was that all prior to to the the 524 00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:41,719 original draft getting to games omnivorous or was that kind of 525 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,679 like a with you guys as well? Or was that mostly Carl and 526 00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:49,760 Brian with the setting stuff? No, the setting stuff was was 527 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,080 Carl and Brian mostly and they already had it. 528 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,600 You know they already had the version of it in the first in 529 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,640 the first draft that that that that they sent. 530 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:06,280 But then we kind of like rewrote some bits and parts to to to to 531 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,160 adapt to to our editorial lines basically that that's what it 532 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,080 what it was. Yeah, I think. 533 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,960 And you just had a a Kickstarter happened not too long ago. 534 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,520 Tides of rot. So and not only you know similar 535 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,840 to kind of what you do with Dead Robots and PJS and Regnant, 536 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,080 there's a an album that comes with it but also just as a 537 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:30,480 stunningly beautiful looking alt kind of like Red Ink Frontier 538 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:31,920 Scum. So what was the impetus to 539 00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:35,960 reprint it and then to want to put the the album out with it, 540 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,760 as well as this kind of this exclusive variant for it? 541 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:47,040 So this was all this was was, was Carle ideas, To be fair. 542 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,360 So Carl really liked what we the collaboration we did with with 543 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,640 Johann and Pele for putres and Pregnant for the more portic LP, 544 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,880 right. So that was such a big moment 545 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,840 for for for me personally and for all of all like the the 546 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,800 people that that are close to to us here at that to me at get 547 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,600 games on the universe. So we started the company in 548 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,400 2020 and a few months off like in the summer or something or 549 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,760 like you know discussing with with Johann and Pele like do 550 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,560 should we do like Mark Borg LP and stuff. 551 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:31,240 So with such a huge moment for me personally, because I was, I 552 00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:34,240 was one of the original backers of of Mark Barks. 553 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:37,840 So I was such a fan of the game, you know what I mean? 554 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:39,360 And I. Missed it. 555 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,760 I had a very big life event happening at the time, so I was 556 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,160 like, how did I miss this game? This is perfect for me and I 557 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,680 went back and I was like oh I had other stuff happening like I 558 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:52,520 the the flail cover is is is. You don't have that. 559 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,040 You don't have. That I don't it's it's near the 560 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,240 top of my grail list as well so. I think I have. 561 00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:00,760 I have, I have mine there. I have mine somewhere. 562 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,720 I think I have mine. But yeah, I was it was, I was 563 00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:07,400 such a fan and I started, you know, I started talking to you 564 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,000 and then they accepted and you know my life changed with Mouse 565 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,720 Reacher and Mark Borg in the same year. 566 00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:15,920 It was just insane, you know, having a new publisher and then 567 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,440 by the end of the year doing LP with Mark Borg and releasing 568 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,720 Mouse Reacher, like that's when I decided to go full time with 569 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:25,960 this. So I was, I was back then I had 570 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,000 the job and I quit the job after year one with the starting the 571 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,600 company because it went really well. 572 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,600 And Carl was really excited about the idea of doing an LP 573 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,760 because musically we had some similar tastes somehow here and 574 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,120 there with with some bands that we both liked. 575 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:51,000 And he was really into the whole LPRPG concept and he was really 576 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,680 a fan of Mark Borg. Obviously he he, he won a lot of 577 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,200 Venice with Mark Borg doing the digital content and digital 578 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,520 stuff for the game. So he was like, you know, do you 579 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,480 want to do an LP for Frontiers government? 580 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:05,840 I was like, sure, let's do it by now. 581 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:13,080 And he wanted to do your His original vision was doing like a 582 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,120 splatter crawl kind of thing with lots of glory art and 583 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:24,120 splashes of blood and and the LP, the vinyl itself will look 584 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,960 like it's just like a splatter of blood or something or blood 585 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,520 stain. So that was kind of like his his 586 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:39,800 vision for this. And and I think that when we 587 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:47,280 were doing the final adjustments to to the print ready files for 588 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,920 Frontiers come, he showed me like a version with just red ink 589 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,120 of the book. And I was like oh, maybe we 590 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,000 should, you know, we should, we should keep this for later. 591 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,200 So when when the LP came up, I was like, oh, maybe do you want 592 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,080 to, if you want to go back to that idea. 593 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,720 And we published like a limited Sprint run of the book with in 594 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:10,920 red ink and you change a little bit of the art and it's going to 595 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:16,520 be a fun thing to have. So that was mostly mostly it. 596 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,760 It's it's something that we think it's interesting. 597 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,640 It's very artsy somehow and I think it's it's nice to have 598 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,320 like a different to have a print run of the book that is not just 599 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,040 the cover that is different, but it's actually different 600 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,960 throughout somehow and also create something that matched 601 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,200 the vibes of of the vinyl of Tides of Rod. 602 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:43,680 So all of those factors together drew us to to to making this. 603 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,840 So yeah, that was, I think that was it. 604 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,640 As soon as I saw the the Kickstarter and saw even just 605 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,960 like the images that were there with like the red and how like, 606 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,680 I mean because we we played Frontier Scum on stream like a 607 00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,360 bunch of times. I've read it a bunch. 608 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,520 It's a fantastic game. So I know like the art pieces 609 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,120 that are in it. And when I see one that's like 610 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,000 the head is just like a red splatter. 611 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,160 And all this stuff and even even the color of the red is it just 612 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:15,600 seems to like fit so perfectly that it's one of those things 613 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,400 like as soon as you see it you're like, of course this is 614 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,720 the thing like this is exactly how this thing should be. 615 00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:25,280 So it's really cool to see. Something that's done so well 616 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,280 and then another variant of it that's you know seems to be done 617 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,080 equally as well. So it's it's what we. 618 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,080 Haven't decided yet. And this is a confession that 619 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:34,720 I'm making now. What We haven't decided. 620 00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:37,880 It is how we're going to present the cover of this of this 621 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,080 edition. So we shall see. 622 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,880 I don't think we are just doing like a red ink version of it. 623 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,240 We are probably doing something else with it. 624 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,480 I don't. We we we're not sure yet. 625 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,840 We'll we shall see. Going to change up the the, the, 626 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,440 the material of the cover or just the the images and stuff, 627 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,000 we'll see. I we, I don't know we haven't 628 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,920 decided yet. It's exciting like we're 629 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,520 probably going to decide next week on what to do. 630 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:10,120 It's we also have to you know to consider the limitations of of 631 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,720 the printers we work with. They, they are, you know, 632 00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:16,000 they're capable of doing a lot of stuff, but sometimes they say 633 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,600 no, this is Andrea, we cannot do this. 634 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,320 It's or we can, but it costs like €15 per book or whatever. 635 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,600 And they're like, OK, like let's not do that. 636 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,360 So we haven't decided yet. We haven't decided that we're 637 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,960 going, we're looking into it next week probably. 638 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,400 It's almost like we have everything pretty much done. 639 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,560 It's going into production in early January. 640 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,400 We have pretty much everything done. 641 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,080 The music is done, just need some mixing music. 642 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:50,960 Is is is going to be a fun ride. Interesting, very different from 643 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,480 what we did with Putras and Sregnant and Electric Micro Up 644 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,680 even. It's very different but it was 645 00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,640 different. Also it was a collaboration with 646 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:07,560 with with Alex Figuedo which who who is a good friend of mine is 647 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:12,920 a Venezuelan music musician and producer who lives in in 648 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:18,480 Brussels currently and and he played he he he was one of the 649 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,680 musicians that played in that rubble jungle and electric 650 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:29,200 mangrove but now he he's like the lead producer for for this 651 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,200 record for for ties of rod. So it will sound a bit 652 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,280 different. It will sound more unpolished, 653 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,160 more raw, more in the face. You know what I mean? 654 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:42,840 Less produced somehow, But that's mostly an aesthetic 655 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,360 option to go with the game. So yeah, I mean, that makes 656 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,960 perfect sense for tides of rock, frontier scum, like, yeah. 657 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,000 It's a nice like I'm so happy with Tides of Rock because it's 658 00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,400 such not your conventional western adventure or setting 659 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:07,440 like it's whalers whaling town lots of rain there's floods 660 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:13,320 there's it's it's really really different from your typical like 661 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:21,160 desert setting or whatever which is the conventional way of you 662 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,720 know representing westerns and western stuff. 663 00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:26,280 So I'm really, really excited for for this one. 664 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,680 I think it's fantastic and I think that's that's also what 665 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,880 what like going back to the to our to the agenda games on 666 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,840 universe that we somehow, you know think of of games as a form 667 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,120 of art or an artistic expression. 668 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,400 And I think games are really unique. 669 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,840 Not only fantastic but interesting, but unique mediums 670 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:56,440 to explore and advance the the horizons of certain genres. 671 00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,840 You know what I mean? In certain archetypes. 672 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,760 So if you have like the western genre or the sci-fi genre or 673 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:09,400 whatever, then movies can contribute to expanding those 674 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,920 genres in certain ways. And you know, literature too. 675 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:18,320 And games also do that in very specific and and very unique 676 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,200 ways. And I think, you know, Frontier 677 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:27,720 Scum is actually a very cool interpretation of or a different 678 00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:30,280 vision of what an Western can be. 679 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,200 And obviously that could also be the case. 680 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,320 You know, you could also do a movie with that vibes, the 681 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,120 Frontier scum vibes. But I think that you know games 682 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,600 are very unique mediums in expanding these and and giving 683 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:52,160 new life to certain established genres and and and I think we're 684 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:57,080 very happy to be to be a part of of it's exciting to to people. 685 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,480 Yeah, I mean, I think that makes a lot of sense like lending, 686 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,600 like giving people the ability to like voice their own story 687 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,800 within a given genre. Absolutely. 688 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,800 He's going to, like, push that genre beyond, like, I think the 689 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,360 Hollywood esque cliches that we all come across. 690 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,960 Mm hmm. I had a question and I totally 691 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,520 blanked. Ryan, you asked a question. 692 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,600 Well, your other big release faults of Arm talk about genres, 693 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,320 talk about something like totally different than than 694 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:33,800 Mouse Rider and and Frontier Scum, How did we're basically 695 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,760 like just going through the catalog being like so how did 696 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:36,840 you do? This how did. 697 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,480 You do that. But how? 698 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:40,480 So how did you do Vault Savar? Like what? 699 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,520 What what? What? 700 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,040 What brought Leo to you guys? And what was the decision to to 701 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,640 turn those scenes into this beautiful blue book? 702 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:56,440 I was, I I I was. There was a moment I think in 703 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:03,080 2021 late 2021 maybe that I was like looking for new stuff to 704 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:10,200 release the year after and and I was like you know what is out 705 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:17,840 there that that I the idea being you know what is out there that 706 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,320 we could kind of do the same thing as we did with Mouse 707 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,760 Raiders. So what is a nice game that 708 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:30,280 doesn't have a very, that doesn't have a very known 709 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:37,000 physical format but it's a nice game in digital format, in PDF 710 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,920 format. So how you know how what is out 711 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:48,680 there And and and I I found Vaults of ARM online and and I 712 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:54,640 thought OK this is a really really really cool game that is 713 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,560 kind of scattered in different genes and stuff. 714 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:03,840 So maybe you know Leo would would accept us publishing like 715 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:08,400 a proper deluxe version of this with Gontijo doing the graphic 716 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,120 design. So Gontijo, yeah, the first time 717 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,840 Gontijo worked with us with with the Haunted Almanac and then it 718 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,080 was such a wonderfully put together book that I was like, 719 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,920 OK, let's let's continue with Vaults of Iron and let's have 720 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,040 Quantizio do Vaults of Arne as well. 721 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:31,080 And then again we went into like product design and how are you 722 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,120 going to present this. And the idea, you know, it was a 723 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,680 it's the setting is a blue desert. 724 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:45,160 So obviously having a very blue book made sense and and we 725 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,040 wanted to do something special with the cover which we hadn't 726 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:53,840 done before And the idea of creating this BA relief with the 727 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,280 with the cover, it's actually, I don't know if you if you realize 728 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,800 this, but if you look at at the cover, just the relief, right. 729 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:06,080 It's actually a topography of a desert. 730 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,280 Yeah, it definitely. It definitely like re like reads 731 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,920 like it's a topographical map, yeah. 732 00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,600 Exactly, yeah. Incredibly. 733 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,160 Stylish. And maybe I'm completely wrong, 734 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,560 but I remember when they did the review of it, you even even on 735 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:26,560 the PDF cover you put that same texture like into the PDF cover 736 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,000 too, so you could still see the the lines and everything on that 737 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,640 as well, yeah? It was, it was a hard chart like 738 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,680 because it doesn't really exist, right. 739 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,480 Like that. So it's like, should we put it 740 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,960 in the PDF or not? And it's like in the end, you 741 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:41,920 know, Contiguous said, yeah, let's do it. 742 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,320 And I'm like, OK, sure, sounds good. 743 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:50,080 But yeah, that that was, that was basically the story behind 744 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,080 Vault so far. And I really liked the game. 745 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,320 I contacted Leo. She was really pleased with with 746 00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,760 with the whole thing and he he said yes. 747 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,600 And we started working on it. And then, you know, I did a lot 748 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,680 of editorial work with with the book because I had to. 749 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,640 You know, one thing is having this presented in different 750 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,080 scenes. Another thing is having this, 751 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,680 you know, in a coherent book. So I had to change a lot of 752 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:19,760 things around and I had to create a new structure somehow 753 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:25,320 for for all of this content. And yeah, I think it's it's, it 754 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,280 looks it, it's really, it's a nice book. 755 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,440 It's almost sold out again actually we only have like 40 756 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:36,360 copies left and it's after after this round sells. 757 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,320 We're not sure if we're doing more to be honest that maybe we 758 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,520 are, you know maybe in a year or two, but we're not, not for the 759 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:49,840 near future. And and we when this sells out 760 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:55,200 we we will have sold 2000 copies of this book which for us is is, 761 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,440 you know is, is is a considerable printer. 762 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,760 Have you ever thought about like, doing another collected 763 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,720 edition of Because like I know that Leo on his Patreon has like 764 00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:09,600 a ton of other like PDF scenes because I have all of them. 765 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,760 Have you ever thought about doing another like kind of like 766 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,320 the estate? Almost, but like just I guess 767 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,600 single creator under the collection? 768 00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:20,000 There have been, there have been talks about it. 769 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:25,200 And so maybe that's a possibility, yeah, But maybe 770 00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:28,160 later towards next year. So I know I'm. 771 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,920 Only asking for me, you know. I'm like, listen, I need to get 772 00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,840 that walls in, you know? I have like there's there's a 773 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:43,080 bunch of projects coming. Next there's, let me see, 1/2, 774 00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:49,280 34567. We have like 8 or 9 projects 775 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:54,360 before that to be released. So it's a bunch of stuff in the 776 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,000 works. So could you give us like any 777 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,720 kind of sneak peek in, like what the future of Games Omniverse 778 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:03,680 looks like? So we have. 779 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:13,240 So we have two more manifestos, Zinn's in print right now. 780 00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:17,760 So they will probably be available early next year and 781 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:23,000 these will be the last two iterations of or interpretations 782 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,080 of this, the manifest. So it will be the last two 783 00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:31,480 scenes in the collection and they will be by two designers 784 00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:35,960 that live reside in Portugal, which I think is interesting, 785 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,440 which I think is very interesting. 786 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:50,640 So it's I when at some point in the company's path, like maybe 787 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:55,760 two years into having started games on reverse, I thought that 788 00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:00,920 we somehow should use manifestos, the manifestos 789 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,720 collection to feature and highlight emerging game 790 00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:09,600 designers or people, you know have an opportunity to publish 791 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:13,800 something. Not just because most of of of 792 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:18,120 the people that that did that did stuff for us was like kind 793 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,920 of like self published or creators that did start us from 794 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:22,400 their own. So we thought that, you know, 795 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:29,160 maybe it would be cool if we give them some space, you know, 796 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,440 to do their own thing and not having to worry with physical 797 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,200 production. And you know, you know what I 798 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:41,080 mean, So, so these, so we have two new manifestos coming soon. 799 00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:48,960 Then we have two books coming in March, maybe March, April which 800 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,960 I cannot talk about business, I cannot talk about. 801 00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,920 And then we obviously in April have Tides of rods coming April, 802 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:04,720 May, June, some some some time somewhere in that time frame the 803 00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:09,000 new Frontier scum. Then we I want, I want to do a 804 00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,520 new I Yeah. Well I'm going to announce it 805 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,880 here why not. Amazing. 806 00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:23,320 So there's I want to do a new a new Undying Sense bottle C 807 00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:29,160 setting, right? So I wanna do, I wanna do a new 808 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:33,000 one and I've already written it and now Kevin is starting the 809 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,440 illustrations and let's see how, how long that takes. 810 00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:39,320 But we're aiming for a new Kickstarter somewhere in the 811 00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:45,520 spring maybe next year for this. And it's going to be like an 812 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:52,360 Arctic ice setting, basically, so like a nice desert or a nice 813 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,560 wasteland. So it's going to be like the 814 00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,280 nine cents in bottled sea with the hexes, right? 815 00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,520 But it's going to be like, I think it's the, the current 816 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,160 title is like the Frostlands or something, the Frostlands or 817 00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,720 something Frostlands. So we still need to work on it. 818 00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:13,120 But yeah, so we also have that coming. 819 00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:19,800 We are thinking about new mouse Ritter content and there's 820 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,040 another secret projects that I cannot talk about. 821 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:24,960 So yeah. For the ones you can't talk 822 00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:26,560 about, honestly, like, I'm so stoked. 823 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:28,160 I'm like, oh, what's coming up, dude? 824 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,800 Well, that sounds like a sounds like you have a really good 825 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:36,320 year. A lot of fun logistics work. 826 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,200 You know, yeah, it's always, I cannot stand still. 827 00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,160 Like I always tell people, OK now I'm going to, you know, I'm 828 00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,240 going to calm down and just going to think about life for, 829 00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:50,160 you know, a couple of weeks or a month or so and, you know, and 830 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,760 then there's, you know, I can never do it. 831 00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,880 There's so much, you know, so many exciting creators to work 832 00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:01,280 with and so many exciting stuff and projects and things that I 833 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,520 start, you know, I start to get a bit nervous of not doing 834 00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,560 anything. So I always have to you know 835 00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:13,160 have like 7 or 8 projects in the works in different stages so. 836 00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,720 I mean that's the future but there's also like the the 837 00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:17,840 current thing that's happening right now. 838 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,440 You've got you've just released a book really recently and and 839 00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,800 we just talked about Balta Barn with with Guntijo. 840 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,560 You just dropped the job which is written by oh look at that, 841 00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:32,760 it's written by you. So first of all, my goodness the 842 00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:34,880 graphic design in this is absolutely stunning. 843 00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:41,320 But what what made you want to do like a a a heist game and and 844 00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,600 I guess just talk about the the job a bit if you could. 845 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,600 Of course, yeah. Contigo made an excellent, 846 00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:53,600 excellent job with that, and it was mostly, if not all of it his 847 00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:58,200 his vision there and so. Because honestly, my original 848 00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:03,680 idea was to do something like Ocean's 11 aesthetically so much 849 00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:09,040 more like early 2000s or you know, like I remember seeing all 850 00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:13,160 those movies like Italian Job in Ocean's 11 that came out like 851 00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:18,880 approximately in the span of a decade like late 90s, early 852 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:23,400 2000s. And and and then I talked to 853 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,080 Conti and it's like, Oh yeah, but I want to do like a 60s 854 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:27,360 aesthetic. It's much nicer. 855 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,000 And I was like sure go for it. Like I I trust you, you know, I 856 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,360 trust. I trust your taste, your vision, 857 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,160 your work. So absolutely do do whatever you 858 00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:43,120 you want with this. And and yeah, so these days I 859 00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,280 started the company with the idea that was going to publish, 860 00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,320 you know, I was going to publish my stuff and other people stuff, 861 00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:54,800 but mostly my stuff. And I found that what I think 862 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,160 I'm basked at is actually working in collaboration with 863 00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:05,600 other people to get something, you know, to the point of of 864 00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,960 turning something, you know, rendering it really special 865 00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,360 somehow in terms of working with them in collaboration, in terms 866 00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:17,040 of product design, game design. So that's what I like to do the 867 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,240 most these days actually is work with other people and see their 868 00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:25,160 vision through and and and collaborate with them to create 869 00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,080 something really, really unique and special. 870 00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:33,600 And so for the the the past the past few years I haven't been 871 00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:38,080 that much of of an author actually I did the 17th century 872 00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:44,040 minimalist game I'm I'm the main game designer for stuff like a 873 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:48,880 Nine Sands and Bottled Sea. But mostly I was publishing, you 874 00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:54,000 know, I was, I was working at Games of Nieves, publishing 875 00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:55,920 other people's works and their vision. 876 00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:02,160 So I kind of at some point I was like maybe, you know, I should 877 00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,400 do a game. I should do another game at some 878 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:08,160 point. And I was, I was seeing a lot 879 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:12,360 of, I was revisiting a lot of these heist movies and and heist 880 00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,360 series. I remember seeing Lupine as well 881 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:19,240 and it was like you know maybe there's a game here. 882 00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:25,720 There's a game to to be designed here and and and I also wanted 883 00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:33,600 to experiment because as I said Games Omniverse is known for 884 00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:39,720 being most or for sitting mostly in the OSR and Sr. sphere 885 00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,800 somehow. So we publish games that are 886 00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:50,320 somehow either retro clones or compatible with retro clones or 887 00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:55,120 they fit in that creative space somehow, where you're kind of 888 00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,920 reinventing the traditional approach to role-playing games, 889 00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,200 right? And our settings are kind of 890 00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,120 like system agnostic. And the idea of doing something 891 00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:09,560 system agnostic I found is very much something that is almost 892 00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:15,960 exclusive to the OSR. Because the OSR and the NSR, the 893 00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,960 games are so compatible with one another that you don't really 894 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,040 need to explain the game. You can just create an adventure 895 00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:28,480 or or a setting that people will understand vaguely how to how to 896 00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,200 play it or how they should run it. 897 00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,920 So that was that's you know games of Nervous and most of the 898 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:40,000 stuff we published you know is within that that framework or 899 00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:43,840 that structure. But I wanted to to experiment. 900 00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:49,240 I I I remember I was reading a lot of like more narrative games 901 00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:54,600 like Fiasco or Dredd or Tent Candles. 902 00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:59,760 So these games that are that they have a very different 903 00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:02,920 approach to role-playing games into the playing experience 904 01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:07,720 where it's much more the so-called play to find out and 905 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,720 the emergent fiction things where nothing is predetermined 906 01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:15,440 right? Like there's not a setting, a 907 01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:19,200 pre written setting or adventure to be explored, but everything 908 01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:25,120 kind of like emerges during. During gameplay and the way the 909 01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:28,720 the way the game works and the tools it offers to both players 910 01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,960 and to GM is to kind of like create that world while you're 911 01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:35,120 playing. So I wanted to to also 912 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:41,760 experiment or to do something that in that space, let's say in 913 01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:49,440 that in that creative RPG space. So I kind of I was like I I 914 01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,600 tested for a while and I came up with with with the design for 915 01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:57,680 the current design for the job, which is like, OK, it has a 916 01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,760 bunch of narrative elements and you easily identify them for 917 01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:08,000 games like Fiasco or Apocalypse World, even games like that. 918 01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:12,520 It has a a a bunch of of tools that that are directly inspired 919 01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,680 by those games. But I always had a problem 920 01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:20,080 playing those games that somehow I lacked some structure in the 921 01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,360 games. Somehow. 922 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:26,360 Some, some sometimes I had some, you know, creative blocks. 923 01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:30,240 I didn't know the you have to be constantly improvising, right? 924 01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:34,520 And sometimes it's not, it's not easy to do. 925 01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:35,800 So I had some problems with that. 926 01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:40,520 So I I I wanted to do something that was halfway between, you 927 01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,400 know, the traditional or the more traditional approach and 928 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:48,000 the more narrative approach. And my way of doing it was 929 01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:53,080 creating this, this game. The job that what it does is the 930 01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,880 game is played in two phases and the first phase, which takes 931 01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:01,440 about an hour, an hour and a half is basically the players 932 01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:06,440 creating their own module. So the the what the game does is 933 01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:12,560 OK, you give your players just the smallest of brief, like the 934 01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:17,080 object they're stealing, the location you know the object is 935 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,960 AT, and then just a bunch of vague complications, right? 936 01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:26,600 Like security cameras or alarms or security staff, you know, 937 01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,800 something like that. And then you just let your 938 01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:34,720 players, you allow space for your players to actually create 939 01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,000 the module that you're running after. 940 01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,760 So they plan the heist. They have to plan the heist. 941 01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:43,600 They have to write down like 12 scene the scenes, right? 942 01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:48,840 And the scenes can be you know, character A approaches the the 943 01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:52,720 security staff and tries to convince them that they should 944 01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:57,000 be allowed in. OK, scene 1, scene two player B 945 01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:01,680 somersaults from a helicopter into whatever like the location 946 01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:07,320 and and tries to break into the roof via a rope or something 947 01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,920 like that, right? And then you, you write these 948 01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:15,280 1212 scenes and then you actually hand the plan to the GM 949 01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,520 and the GM runs, runs it for you, right? 950 01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:22,680 Obviously the game then gives you a lot of tools, a lot of, a 951 01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:28,960 lot of like tools to complicate the narrative, to create chaos 952 01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,840 and unpredictability in the narrative. 953 01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,960 And then the IT uses a a dice, right? 954 01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:39,200 A dice, a stack of dice. So when when players fail 955 01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:41,760 actions, they have to stack dice, and when the tower 956 01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:43,600 collapses, the tower of dice collapses. 957 01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:48,160 Stuff can, bad things can can happen, and then if the tower 958 01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,560 collapses the third time, the game ends, so you can actually 959 01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:52,040 lose. It's a role-playing game that 960 01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:59,840 you can lose, that you can lose. So these were the this is what 961 01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:03,840 was going through my mind when I when I designed or when I came 962 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:08,360 with this with this idea was to create something that is new, is 963 01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,640 narrative, has different mechanics from what, you know, 964 01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:15,240 our customers and our readers and our players are accustomed 965 01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:20,240 to. But somehow it but somehow 966 01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:25,720 offering at the same time some tools for a more structured 967 01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:29,120 game, because that's kind of like how I approach games and 968 01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:30,920 how I like to run them and approach them. 969 01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:36,120 So yeah, that's that's that's that's what went through my my 970 01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:39,040 head and doing it. Yeah, I I think that jaws 971 01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:40,920 fantastic and I really, I really love that structure. 972 01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:44,840 I do also think it was funny, like talking about being very 973 01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:48,200 inspired by Oceans 11, that kind of like highest thing, and then 974 01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,400 being like, no, let's take it back to the 1960s, which is when 975 01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,400 the original Oceans 11 came out. Exactly Frank Sinatra. 976 01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,640 That was like, okay cool. Yeah, yeah, it's true. 977 01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:01,120 And The Italian Job too. The Italian Job is also remake 978 01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:02,960 from the 6th. So there were two moments. 979 01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,600 There were two moments like the 60s were really big in heist 980 01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,480 movies and then like the 90s, late 90s was another period of 981 01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,600 then they kind of like disappeared in between that and 982 01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:17,960 from there on after, well, there's a bunch of like remakes 983 01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,560 currently but they're not very you know, they're not very 984 01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:25,160 famous. They didn't do too well but but, 985 01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:30,760 but yeah so that's that's that's what I was what I was thinking 986 01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,800 about when when doing. I mean you know this this 987 01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:38,040 there's this famous I I think people nowadays don't don't 988 01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:39,680 don't pay attention to it anymore. 989 01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:45,720 But there's this theory of game design, right, The GNS theory, I 990 01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:50,000 think it's called the gamest narrative and simulationist. 991 01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:54,200 So role-playing games are divided into like the gamest 992 01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,120 games, the narrative games, and the simulationist games. 993 01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:02,120 Game is being you're trying to beat the game somehow. 994 01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:05,320 So stuff like, I don't know, Tomb of Horrors, right, You're 995 01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:10,280 trying to to actually try to beat the dungeon somehow or not 996 01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:12,280 get killed. And then there's the narrative 997 01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:15,800 approach where you know nothing is predetermined, nothing is pre 998 01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:19,760 written, It's all all about emerging fiction and the world 999 01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:23,080 is built as the characters inhabited and even the 1000 01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:24,720 character. You don't create the back story 1001 01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:26,160 for your characters in this game. 1002 01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:30,360 The back story happens or unfolds or tells it or reviews 1003 01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,040 is revealed by playing the game right? 1004 01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:35,640 And then there's this simulationist approach where 1005 01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:40,840 kind of like I don't know, games like the One Ring or Blade 1006 01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:45,000 Runner or Dungeons Dragons where they have like very established 1007 01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,960 settings and your characters just inhabit those settings, 1008 01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:50,640 right? And with this game I tried to 1009 01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:56,640 create something that kind of like touched all three genres 1010 01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:58,280 somehow. So you have the game is where 1011 01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:00,640 you're actually trying to survive and beat the game by 1012 01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,800 completing the heist. You have the narrative approach 1013 01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:07,240 because nothing is pre written, nothing is predetermined when 1014 01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:10,320 you start the game, but you also have a little bit of simulation 1015 01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,040 is me in a sense, because actually the players kind of 1016 01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:16,000 like write their module beforehand somehow. 1017 01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:20,760 So I kind of like try to you know inspire myself in all these 1018 01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,800 different tropes and genres to create something that I thought 1019 01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,960 was was unique. And you know, I have no idea if 1020 01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,640 this game is going to be well received or not. 1021 01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:33,680 So far I've know, you know a handful of people that played it 1022 01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:36,320 besides me, that really enjoyed it. 1023 01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:40,480 So we shall see. The, the challenge is I, I know 1024 01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:44,680 personally, I know how to have a lot of fun with this game. 1025 01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:48,920 The challenge as a game designer is can you convey that to other 1026 01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:50,880 people, right. That's that's that's a 1027 01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:51,920 challenge. You never know. 1028 01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:55,520 You never know, Yeah. You know what's interesting? 1029 01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,240 I'm not a big Me and Hunter have talked about this before. 1030 01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,480 I'm not a big heist guy. Hunter's a big heist guy. 1031 01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:04,200 I love a good heist. Dude, but my my problem with 1032 01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:06,560 heist is always kind of. It always kind of feels like 1033 01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:09,120 you're at the whim of the GM, you know what I mean? 1034 01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:11,640 Like at any point they could be like, well, that was a drip wire 1035 01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:13,320 or Nope, you were on camera or whatever, like. 1036 01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,120 So I always feel like it feel always feels kind of contrived, 1037 01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,439 but the job feels very different because of those two. 1038 01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:24,200 Kind of like the start, the the phases of the game and how it is 1039 01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:25,560 will be gamified and stuff like that. 1040 01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,040 And that's what I was most excited for because I remember 1041 01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:30,200 when I first got it, I think I even said to Hunter I was like, 1042 01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:31,920 this is the highest game. I'm actually really excited for 1043 01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,880 this one, feels. It does feel like Ocean's 11. 1044 01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:37,279 It feels like we're making a plan and actually going with it 1045 01:08:37,279 --> 01:08:39,920 as opposed to just being like, OK, you go out the door, hope 1046 01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:42,080 nothing happens, OK, you go in the next door. 1047 01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:46,960 So yeah, I mean, the graphic design as well is just, you 1048 01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,479 know. Yeah, I think, I think the first 1049 01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,279 phase of the game is everything where you're actually you're 1050 01:08:52,279 --> 01:08:56,479 inviting or you're asking players to write kind of like 1051 01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,120 write their module, write what they're going to play. 1052 01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:03,640 In the second in the action phase, it it's it's mostly has 1053 01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:08,520 22. There's two advantages, the 1054 01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:12,680 first one being, you know you as the GM of the game, you actually 1055 01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:16,399 receive something, receive a bit of structure to play this game 1056 01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:19,560 afterwards. But it's also it, it's also a 1057 01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:22,520 very immersive element for the players as well, because it 1058 01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,800 really feels like you're planning a heist. 1059 01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:29,000 You're not only just planning the module for the GM to run, 1060 01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,080 you're actually as the character, kind of planning the 1061 01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,040 heist. And that feels that, you know, 1062 01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:38,680 at least with my groups it felt really it it felt like something 1063 01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:42,319 unique, something you don't see often in in in games, which I 1064 01:09:42,319 --> 01:09:44,840 think it was cool. Let's see what they received. 1065 01:09:45,279 --> 01:09:49,600 I really appreciate like when we like when designers and careers 1066 01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:53,399 bring these moments into like TTRPG is that maybe not 1067 01:09:53,399 --> 01:09:56,240 traditional moments where you're not like actively like, but 1068 01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:58,360 you're like sitting and planning and there's like a there's 1069 01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,920 another element to playing this game where you get to do it 1070 01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:03,520 collectively. I really very much enjoy things 1071 01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,840 like that and I and I agree. I think like the players, it 1072 01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:08,840 allows them to like buy in a little bit more and kind of get 1073 01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:10,640 excited about this plan that they're creating. 1074 01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,400 Incredibly, yeah. It's like instead of creating 1075 01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:17,880 characters, you know there, that moment when you sit for like an 1076 01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:22,400 hour or half an hour in most of the games, creating characters. 1077 01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:25,560 In this game I got rid of character creation entirely. 1078 01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:29,240 It's like characters don't have stats, don't have anything, they 1079 01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,760 just have 4 special abilities. That's it. 1080 01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:36,720 So I replaced character creation with module creation somehow. 1081 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:40,520 That's like the innovation that, but I think it works out for 1082 01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:44,880 this case because I wanted to do, I really wanted to do a game 1083 01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:54,120 like this that is inspired by movies like Cube or Platform or 1084 01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:56,000 the exam. You know, these very like 1085 01:10:56,000 --> 01:11:00,960 dystopian, dystopian places where people are trapped and 1086 01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:05,640 need to navigate like a dystopian situation and they're 1087 01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:09,240 you know, and normally is the government that or that there's 1088 01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:13,360 an estate or military facility that somehow is trapping them 1089 01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:17,400 there or whatever. And I I I think I want to create 1090 01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:22,480 a game for that, but I'm I have no idea how to do it, so I have 1091 01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:24,280 to think about it. Well, don't worry. 1092 01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:26,040 We'll buy it. So yeah, yeah. 1093 01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:30,800 Secret. Project #3 for next year, you 1094 01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,120 know, and not only that, I mean the design, the game, 1095 01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:39,080 everything, but whoever your printers are do a damn good job 1096 01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,640 because the the texture on this too. 1097 01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,280 Just the actual print of the book is absolutely stunning for 1098 01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:49,160 anyone that doesn't have it like this, kind of like shiny bits on 1099 01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:52,320 the matte cover. It's absolutely gorgeous. 1100 01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,520 It's just every little detail is just taken all the way to the 1101 01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,560 end. So it's just it's so good, yeah. 1102 01:11:58,040 --> 01:11:59,720 Thank you. Yeah, we wanted to do something 1103 01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:07,320 special with the cover and we want and so we added like a UV, 1104 01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:13,320 not not a UV, it's a varnish, A glossy varnish to just the like 1105 01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:15,800 the the diamond there. So it kind of shines, right. 1106 01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:17,560 So it differentiates from the rest. 1107 01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:21,120 And it's interesting because these these things are not what 1108 01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:24,000 make a book particularly expensive to be honest. 1109 01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,760 You just have to be creative and know the right printers 1110 01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:30,040 basically. It's it's not a, it's not a 1111 01:12:30,480 --> 01:12:33,320 sometimes you. The problem is you don't. 1112 01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:39,800 Like I I see a lot of a lot of a lot of folks and creators out 1113 01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:43,600 out there, but they don't actually go to bookstores and 1114 01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:45,200 look at books. You know what I mean? 1115 01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:47,480 Yeah, that's such a big part of my life. 1116 01:12:47,480 --> 01:12:52,520 Like I go to a bookstore almost every week just to look at what 1117 01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,840 people are releasing in terms of covers like what materials they 1118 01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,480 use finishing. I I do lots of videos with ideas 1119 01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:06,360 and that's that's part of of of that's a big part of of I think 1120 01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:11,560 of our success in in and and our quality in doing these kind of 1121 01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:13,160 things. It's just you know going to 1122 01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:16,120 bookstores and looking around and see what what other people 1123 01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:18,400 are doing. Like if you go to for instance 1124 01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:25,960 if you go to my wife is is is is is a big fan of photography and 1125 01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:27,800 she collects a lot of photography books. 1126 01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,080 If you look to, if you go to like photography book 1127 01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:38,440 bookstores, the quality of of the books, it's off the charts 1128 01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,600 and the quality of the finishing and the materials and the 1129 01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:43,160 clothes and everything they use is. 1130 01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:46,680 So I, I, I go to these bookstores with them and instead 1131 01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:50,760 of looking at at the books themselves and at the content 1132 01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,440 right, I'm looking at like the covers and what they use and 1133 01:13:54,440 --> 01:13:57,160 stuff. So it's it's a matter of of 1134 01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:00,360 being you know of seeing what is out there and being creative 1135 01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,320 with that and asking the print because most printers can can or 1136 01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:08,000 a lot of them can do this. You just need to know what 1137 01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:13,200 you're asking basically. Yeah, well, I mean that's why. 1138 01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:15,520 That's why games I've never so games I've never So like that's 1139 01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:18,880 why the the the whole, the manifesto that you guys built 1140 01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,400 that you've built from not just manifestos omnivorous, but the 1141 01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:24,560 entire vibe of the company. I mean it's so consistent all 1142 01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,080 the way through especially across all the different genres. 1143 01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:33,160 You know there's this this through line of artistry and 1144 01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:36,040 just like peak like like I said productivity and attention to 1145 01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:39,920 detail that really makes a games on nervous game feel like a 1146 01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:41,920 games on reverse game. So it's just it's. 1147 01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:44,440 It's. More again, Yeah. 1148 01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:46,120 If you make it, we're we're gonna buy it. 1149 01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:48,240 So that's that's that's where we're at. 1150 01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:51,680 So, yeah, nice. Especially with all these 1151 01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:53,200 projects dropping. Yeah. 1152 01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:59,760 So, yeah. So listen, we really appreciate 1153 01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:02,880 you coming on the show. This has been fantastic to to 1154 01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:04,960 hear you talk all of these things. 1155 01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:08,920 We're talking about the job, the vinyls, everything. 1156 01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:11,520 Where can people find all of this awesome stuff that we've 1157 01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,360 talked about this entire time? So you can go to 1158 01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:19,600 gamesomniverse.com. That's our website, our web 1159 01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:27,640 store. You can join the mailing list in 1160 01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:33,000 the homepage there and we send, we don't send, we maybe send 1161 01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:34,520 like four or five emails per year. 1162 01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:36,920 So you're not getting a mail every week. 1163 01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:40,000 It's just when there's new stuff out mostly. 1164 01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:47,560 So there's that and you can find this obviously on on Twitter. 1165 01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:50,280 Well not Twitter now it's it's called something else. 1166 01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:51,000 It's Twitter. We're just. 1167 01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:53,840 Calling Twitter. Just we're just calling Twitter. 1168 01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:58,120 Twitter Games on Just search for games on Neighbors. 1169 01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:00,840 We have a very unique name. So it's not like there's a bunch 1170 01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:03,120 of stuff called Games on Neighbors out there. 1171 01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:07,320 So you have Twitter, you have Instagram, Facebook, and that's 1172 01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:10,160 about it. Because you know, there's only 1173 01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:16,080 so, so, so, so many social media I can handle by my side. 1174 01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:18,120 You know what I mean? Like I I'm not. 1175 01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:21,600 I I don't even particularly like social media to be honest. 1176 01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:24,440 In in in in in general. So I'm like, I don't. 1177 01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:26,480 Know if any of us really do, you know? 1178 01:16:26,480 --> 01:16:29,280 Yeah I love podcasts. I love being on shows like this 1179 01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:31,720 but like this like social media is like a bit. 1180 01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:37,200 So I'm but we try to stay active we're we're mostly active on on 1181 01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:39,880 on Twitter these days and we also have Blue Sky. 1182 01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:43,000 We also have Blue Sky. I I was convinced that I should 1183 01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:46,320 do that, and I did it so. Me too. 1184 01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:51,040 The easiest, the easiest is just join our mailing list and and 1185 01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:55,400 you'll be and you'll be warned of new stuff being released and. 1186 01:16:55,840 --> 01:17:02,720 You will be warned, Games. Ominous. 1187 01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:04,680 Yeah. Seriously. 1188 01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,200 I can't tell you how excited we are for all the projects next 1189 01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:08,840 year. We'd love to have you on again 1190 01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:10,880 anytime anything drops. And thank you so much for being 1191 01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:12,960 here again. I know you saying that you're a 1192 01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:15,640 fan of ours. It really means a lot to us and 1193 01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,520 we've been huge fan of years for a long time, so it's been 1194 01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:19,680 fantastic. I haven't getting a chance to 1195 01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:21,760 talk to you. Thank you so much. 1196 01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:24,360 It was a big, big pleasure to be here with you. 1197 01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,800 I hope I come back, you know, next year or whenever you. 1198 01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,200 Have to, Yeah. You absolutely have to, Yeah. 1199 01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:32,080 Just shoot me a message and we'll make it work. 1200 01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:34,560 So cool. Again, thank you so much for 1201 01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:36,080 being here. Yeah, and thank you everyone to 1202 01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:38,560 chat for being here as well. You can find all of our stuff at 1203 01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:41,480 our link tree at Slash, the Weekly Scroll. 1204 01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,600 And. And that's it for us today. 1205 01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:45,440 Again, thank you for being here and we'll see you all later. 1206 01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:46,600 Bye. Bye.