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Hello and welcome to the Weekly 
Scroll podcast. 

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My Name Is Ryan. 
And I'm any old twat from out of

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town. 
And and with us today, we have 

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two very, very special guests. 
We have Luke Gearing and David 

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Hoskins. 
How you guys doing today? 

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Yeah, yeah. 
Thank you. 

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Thank you both so much for 
coming on. 

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Like, this is one of those ones 
where I'm going to try not to 

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fangirl the entire time. 
So it's been nice to talk a 

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little bit before it happened. 
But you guys are, I mean, 

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incredible and we're huge fans. 
I can only say that I'm sure 

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Hunter says the same. 
Yeah, absolutely so. 

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I mean, I've only mentioned the 
Wolves upon the coast like four 

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times this past week on the 
show, so, but I am currently 

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running a solo game of it, so. 
Literally the only thing that 

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he's talking about, he randomly 
calls me, like deep in the 

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afternoon when he knows, 
obviously, because like, hey, so

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I got this question almost above
the coast, like what do you 

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think? 
And I'm like, all right, cool. 

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Listen for for those that may 
not know because their head is 

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obviously in the sand, who Luke 
Gearing and David Hoskins are. 

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Who? 
Who? 

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Who are you guys? 
What might people know you from 

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David? 
Hi, my name is David Hoskins. 

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Mainly a tabletop RPG 
illustrator. 

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I kind of got my start just 
doing band stuff like Flyers and

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posters and stuff, and then, you
know, kind of slip back into 

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gaming like maybe not slit. 
Like dove head first back into 

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it pretty hard and then start 
picking up some jobs. 

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Like I've done stuff for Hyper 
Borea. 

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Then I met up with Jarrett 
Crater, hooked me up with Luke 

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for Acid Death Fantasy, which 
was just a really cool one. 

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So cool. 
The old school essentials covers

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that are in the box sets, which 
was pretty wild to be there with

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like Errol and Peter Mullen and 
I don't know a bunch of other 

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odds and that's here and there. 
I'm also currently Art Director 

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at Exalted Funeral, so we're 
looking to get things rolling 

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and getting a bunch of cool new 
new stuff out soon, Hopefully an

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incredibly. 
Cool. 

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Yeah, and Luke. 
Oh yeah, So I'm Luke. 

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I do writing stuff for games. 
Most feel like adventures and 

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settings and shit, but there's 
the odd system every now and 

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then when you know someone 
twists me arm. 

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Been doing it for nearly a 
decade now, because it's not 

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with Fever Swamp with no Sonia, 
which is Saint Louis. 

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Did ADF Swivers, big squirm 
wolves like the big Solo one. 

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And now I'm doing all the 
mothership stuff with Tuesday 

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night games as well. 
So yeah, just chugging, chugging

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along, putting them out there. 
There you go. 

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And this is, I think, if maybe 
I'm wrong because I know we have

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Acid Death, I know we have Black
Knight. 

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So will this be the third 
project you guys are working on 

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together? 
Sounds about right. 

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I think so, yeah. 
So many mentally go back. 

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I. 
Did some I did some stuff for 

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mothership for the box set too. 
I don't know if Luke is have has

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anything in that but I. 
Don't know. 

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I'm in some of the UCL stuff, so
we'll have to compare notes and 

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see which. 
One, yeah, maybe that. 

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I love that you guys have worked
on so much stuff that's like 

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kind of intertwined to be like, 
Oh yeah, maybe we have another 

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thing that's together. 
There's. 

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There's a ton of talent in that 
mothership, the box set, when 

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that fits, there's a ton of 
talent. 

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In this I would love to have. 
A call now, Yeah. 

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But you said that it was Jared 
Crater that originally 

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introduced you guys. 
Yep, Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
Old jerk? 

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Yeah. 
Just had him on the show the 

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other day. 
He's the space Penguin and 

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whatnot. 
Yeah, I I've said this over and 

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over again, and I feel like it's
not an exaggeration that if you 

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have something that's like in 
the indie scene, you got at 

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least a 60 to 70% chance that 
his name is inside of it. 

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Oh, for sure. 
Pretty. 

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Pretty. 
Close, yeah. 

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It's like it's like 6° of but of
Kevin Bacon or whatever, but 

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it's. 
But it's Jared Crater. 

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But it's Jared. 
But it's less than six. 

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It's like 2. 
It's two. 

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But yeah, he's he's a total 
Titan. 

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Absolutely wouldn't be here 
without him. 

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Yeah, and and Luke, you've been 
working with Mawsonia all the 

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way back since Fever Swamp. 
How did how did you get linked 

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up with Daniel Cell and and 
Mawsonia? 

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So way back when, Dan Cell first
started by doing the Undercroft,

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which look a little like 48 page
if that Zine sign. 

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I've said it both ways so 
everyone could be annoyed at me.

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I like Zion, that's I'm looking,
you know, people get mad at me, 

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It's great. 
So you've got like an open call 

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after doing the first Undercroft
that was all like shit that he 

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wrote. 
So I sent in my first actual 

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published PCOP. 
He wrote in with with them was 

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basically a stick figure that 
kills people that I'd used in my

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called Cthulhu campaign. 
But I started up for the BX 

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clone at the time, and then it 
just kind of went from there 

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where I was, because that was 
just falling off to uni. 

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And I kept running out of money 
at university. 

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And I thought, oh, I'll send 
Daniel sell something for 

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cigarette money. 
And that's how I repeat the 

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swamp when I was like shit, 
like, I don't think left in the 

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bank. 
I've spent all my overdraft, 

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spent all my student loan. 
I'll write an adventure 

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accidentally and he'll be like, 
well, this is too big to put in 

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a a a copy of Undercroft. 
So I guess it's his own book and

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that's, that was the first one 
kind of went from there. 

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Ever since then, it's just been 
like, oh, here's like a troika 

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idea. 
And they're like, cool, thanks, 

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brilliant. 
We'll use that or like down. 

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So we'll be like, hey, do you 
have anything for Troika? 

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Could you do one? 
Which how big? 

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Squirm started somewhere in 
there. 

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He agreed to do Swivers as well.
So yeah, it's just been an 

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ongoing thing for a while now 
and sort of the context from 

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there is how mostly Jarrett then
led on to sort of everyone else 

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as well. 
Yeah, I mean, I just need 

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cigarette money. 
So I accidentally wrote one of 

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like the classic, like, OSR 
adventures that exist in the 

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scene right now. 
You know, just accidentally 

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wrote like a masterpiece. 
So it's fine, no worries, you 

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know? 
Yeah, cuz I was saying it was 

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our cigarette money, which is 
very funny. 

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Everyone's like, OK, that makes 
more sense now, yeah. 

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Cartoons call from hard 
measures. 

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Exactly. 
I was like, well, can I make it 

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bigger so that the animal pay me
more per word? 

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And he was like, no, like, you 
know, you'll get rolled these, 

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it'll be his own book. 
I'm like, oh, that's great. 

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But what about rape now? 
Yeah, that was cool. 

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That was in my third year of 
uni, I think. 

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Finishing off the manuscript for
that one and then also working 

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on swivals because that all kind
of kicked off around some sort 

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of time, I think, but kind of 
languished for a while and then 

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very shit happening in the 
background before ready to come 

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out now, yeah? 
Did you say Swivers was like all

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the way back at the same time as
Fever Swamp and it's just been 

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kind of hanging around since? 
Then it's only a couple of years

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younger, so I think it's like 5 
or six years now cuz technically

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I wrote the first stuff for 
Swathers before Blades in the 

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Dark came out, which is a thing 
when everyone's like oh, it's 

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just us all Blades in the dark. 
So actually actually it's like a

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couple of months older. 
So it was would have been about 

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2018, 20/17/2018. 
So it's all sort of similar time

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period. 
So yeah, it's been a long time 

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coming. 
I mean it started off very 

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differently. 
It sort of grew as these things 

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do. 
Significant. 

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Yeah I I feel like, I mean I've 
read, I've read the the quick 

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start and and the mock up of 
stuff for Swivers and aside from

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like thieves in a city like 
there's really no correlation 

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between that and Blades. 
I mean, my opinion on blades is 

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exists on the Internet, so I 
don't need to rehash it, but I 

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feel like it's quite it's quite 
different. 

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I totally had a joke loaded up 
for this where I was like, so 

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this is y'all's blades in the 
dark, right? 

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Yeah I know I'm a I'm not a huge
had a blade so oh. 

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Really. 
Yeah, go figure each. 

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Each they're actually. 
I've actually played a little 

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blade tonight. 
I had fun and I didn't think I 

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would. 
So how dare you? 

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Let's say yeah, friendship 
cancelled. 

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There you go. 
That's. 

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Great, but so really good, 
David. 

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Good game master. 
That's what it you know. 

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I think a lot of it comes down 
to it's my favorite. 

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Gosh. 
OK so the only tangent I go into

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a Blades is that any video I've 
watched of like the creator 

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playing Blades doesn't play 
Blades raw. 

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So like, I don't understand. 
But anyway so David, one of the 

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things you said because you do 
the covers for the OSC box sets 

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and I also think I have some of 
your art on a T-shirt. 

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The books in the box. 
The books in the box. 

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The box sets have the legendary 
heir Lotus and then Peter Mullen

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on the on the front and you said
you were the Inners chatting 

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with like Era Lotus and Peter 
Mullen in that process. 

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Like how how was it to work? 
Kind of like in a group where 

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you are working with a legend, 
you know. 

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Well I wasn't working directly 
with them. 

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I was just working with Gavin. 
But just to know that like you 

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know like the guy who painted my
magenta like basic box, you 

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know, like I've got work in 
there with them. 

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I've been on calls with them and
met, met him and chatted with 

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him a few times. 
Super sweet guy. 

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Never met Peter Mullen, never 
talked to Peter Mullen. 

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But I'm a huge fan, one of my 
favorite DCC artists. 

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I kind of consider him like one 
of the main DCC artists. 

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I'm a big fan of both of them. 
So to get get the work in there 

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with those people was with Super
Killer. 

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Yeah, that's awesome. 
Those covers are. 

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Really, very good too. 
I do like that they stand out 

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from the box itself, but now I'm
a huge fan of the style of those

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covers. 
Thank you. 

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Yeah, I thought they were a lot 
of fun to do. 

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Gavin was very cool on, but kind
of just letting me do, like 

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letting me do what I would do 
and giving me the time to do it.

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I'm like notoriously slow. 
So, like at working because I'm 

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very, I get very meticulous, 
very like focused in on things. 

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So like let like Gavin give me 
the freedom to do a monster book

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with not a, like, you know, the 
monster book has like that 

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wounded Griffin on the front 
with like the elf kind of 

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tending to it. 
It's like I would just wanted to

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do something a little different.
So letting me do that instead 

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of, you know, a big, you know, 
like orc or umber Hulk or 

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beholder rip off or whatever, 
and like a bunch of guys 

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stabbing it, like that's always 
fun. 

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But letting letting me do 
something a little more 

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whimsical was was really neat. 
That was a that was a fun 

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project and it the black light 
poster turned out great. 

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00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,120
I don't know if you guys got a 
black light poster, but Oh yeah,

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Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, headlight 
up there did a killer job. 

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Super easy to work with. 
So if you're ever in the need of

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any kind of screen printing, I 
highly recommend Paul up there 

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at the headlight. 
I think they're out of New York,

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like upstate New York. 
But yeah, yeah, that was great. 

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And you you you said or or Luke 
said that you guys got linked up

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to Jerry Crater around. 
That's the death fantasy. 

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00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,040
But what was the impetus for 
Black Knights? 

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Because I remember following 
like your Instagram and stuff at

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the time and the art style you 
were doing with this. 

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And then when this scene 
dropped, I was like, this is 

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such a a perfect pairing 
between, you know, Luke's 

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writing and your art. 
So what what what made this 

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00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:21,440
happen? 
That was just like I every now 

224
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,800
and again and I'm reaching that 
point now where where I've been 

225
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:30,280
doing something like the same 
way, the same style, like I need

226
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,000
like a decompress like project. 
And that's kind of what that 

227
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,480
was. 
It was just me like making blobs

228
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:41,000
and erasing out like shapes. 
And then you know, I also wanted

229
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:46,080
to turn it into something. 
So I originally kind of sent it 

230
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:51,680
out to a bunch of people like to
create to write up like stats 

231
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:53,960
for these things like back 
stories for each night. 

232
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,640
And Luke was the only one that 
sent me one back. 

233
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,800
And then I just got sick of 
waiting and I was like, well, if

234
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:07,320
Luke wants to do it all like. 
And Luke is one of my like, Luke

235
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,320
you're my favorite. 
I'll just say it like you're my 

236
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,040
you're my favorite, you're my 
favorite author. 

237
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,320
Like getting to work on Swivers 
and reading Swivers like Swivers

238
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,640
is a book that's not a chore to 
read. 

239
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,560
When rule books are kind of 
like, you know, you kind of have

240
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:24,680
to slog through it. 
Like, even the equipment section

241
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:26,920
stuff is fun. 
So I knew Luke was going to do a

242
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,840
great job with all and make them
weird as shit, like all those 

243
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:31,880
nights. 
Like there's, you know, the 

244
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,400
prize fighter, the guy who gets 
melted down and put into the 

245
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,600
orb. 
Like that guy rules you. 

246
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,440
Know the. 
Feasting night is really cool. 

247
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:47,920
They're all really, really, 
really unique and interesting, 

248
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,120
so. 
So I feel like that's the best 

249
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,600
segue we possibly could have 
been given to talk about 

250
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,640
slivers. 
You got you, you both have a 

251
00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:01,240
project right now that's funding
on Kickstarter called Harpers. 

252
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,000
Could you tell us a little bit 
about it? 

253
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,400
Yeah, you do crimes. 
That's like the big headline. 

254
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,400
Like. 
Blades, like we talked about. 

255
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:13,600
Yeah, it's. 
Like blades, you do crimes 

256
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:15,760
except you plan them. 
No, wait. 

257
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,120
I thought planning was all you 
do in blades. 

258
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,000
That's that's the opposite, 
yeah. 

259
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:23,440
It's just reacting. 
It's like. 

260
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,640
Yeah, so the big thing with 
swipers is like Super Rules 

261
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,360
light. 
Like it started as BX and it's 

262
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,440
kind of becomes own thing. 
But the the like for me, the big

263
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,280
thing is it gives you a shit 
load of tools to generate your 

264
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,120
city. 
Because it's kind of one of 

265
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,120
those things that you kind of 
waver back and forth on where 

266
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,640
it's like, well, do you give 
somebody one specific thing that

267
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,280
they can just use and it's ready
to go or do you give them the 

268
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:50,080
tools to make it themselves? 
And I think with a lot of stuff,

269
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,240
I will tend to go more one way 
and more say like here's the 

270
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,000
specific thing. 
But with like a city, I think 

271
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,000
because you're going to be 
needing to improvise and riff a 

272
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,080
lot, you can't give everyone the
whole thing. 

273
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,560
So it's well, if they come up 
with them themselves, then 

274
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,280
they'll be able to improvise a 
lot easier. 

275
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,680
So yeah, like for me the big 
killer thing is like just a shit

276
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:11,280
load of tables and ideas to just
throw into your own specific 

277
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,200
version of the smoke, which is 
named the city. 

278
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,600
Kind of like a very 
anachronistic mix of like this 

279
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,080
in Victoriana. 
There's like a lot of 

280
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,240
medievalism stuff in there. 
So the kind of time, time 

281
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,800
periods, a little ambivalent. 
It's kind of where you want to 

282
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,200
put it. 
And everyone loves the the 

283
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,800
blackjack magic, which is very 
fun. 

284
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:36,720
Yeah. 
So I was is is a, it's a it's 

285
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,520
not actually ended up that big. 
It's a lot smaller than I 

286
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,680
thought it was gonna be. 
I think it's like 100 odd pages.

287
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,320
I think is what we're looking at
at the moment. 

288
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,640
But yeah, it's very good fun. 
Yeah, really proud of it. 

289
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:48,840
I think it's like we. 
We love. 

290
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,160
When books aren't that big, I 
think. 

291
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,360
Page number or less. 
Let me tell you what, if you put

292
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,600
out a 300 page book, it's yours,
so I'll buy it. 

293
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,320
But like, it's gonna take me a 
long time to get through it, you

294
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:04,000
know? 
But yeah, so it's one of the 

295
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,120
things you said mechanically, 
it's incredibly rules light. 

296
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,640
I think if you really look at 
like the the core kind of rules 

297
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,360
like character creation outside 
of like the actual classes or 

298
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,800
like styles plus the three and 
and the rules in combat, it fits

299
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:21,120
across like one, maybe 2 pages. 
So so much of it is the tables 

300
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,200
where obviously like your 
ability to add flavor is insane 

301
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,640
across all of them. 
But what was, I know you said 

302
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,160
you had been kind of an idea 
since Fever Swamp, but what was 

303
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:35,840
the impetus for using like that 
to making it like quote UN quote

304
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,120
rules light or like kind of like
a very lightweight system and 

305
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,560
the system that you chose to? 
Use So weirdly, it all started 

306
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:47,240
without stars without number, 
which is the travel of the BX 

307
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,720
thing. 
But is it Jeremy Crawford? 

308
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,800
Yeah, I think so. 
That he does. 

309
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:55,640
And I was. 
I was running that for a while. 

310
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,720
I was like, I doesn't feel right
that you get more HP because 

311
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,680
it's sci-fi. 
And I was like, why is it right 

312
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,520
to get HP in any game? 
And that kind of started me down

313
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,960
the long path of like, OK, I'll 
take BX and I'll just keep 

314
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,240
removing things until I'm happy,
which is a thing I've since done

315
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,400
again with wolves and all that. 
But so yeah, so I was like, OK, 

316
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,839
first of all, like we'll remove 
like gaining more hit dice like 

317
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:17,720
you, just your hit points only 
go up very, very slowly. 

318
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,160
There's all, I don't need half 
these stats. 

319
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,839
We'll just cut them out. 
So originally there was no 

320
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,359
intelligence, no wisdom. 
So it's like I was like no 

321
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,040
intelligence, no charisma. 
So it's like, well, we can just 

322
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,119
role play out. 
We'll just talk it through 

323
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:29,840
because that's more fun. 
It's how I like to run a game. 

324
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,160
We'll just talk it out, use the 
dice if you have to. 

325
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,680
Then I was like, I wouldn't need
Wisdom either because it's kind 

326
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,600
of just ending up as a catch off
all mental stats. 

327
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,280
So it's just this process of 
like gradually boiling it down 

328
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,560
to you just get the the, the 
core residue of what you need. 

329
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,120
It's it's how I've always run 
games. 

330
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:48,600
It's like rules are fine, but 
then there is a backup. 

331
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,800
If we can just discuss it like 
adults and kind of get to the 

332
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,040
the result that's kind of 
mutually satisfied to do that, 

333
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,480
that's way more interesting, 
gets people more engaged in the 

334
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,440
pretending the fictional world 
exists. 

335
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,760
Otherwise, yeah, like it's like,
oh, but I have like a very 

336
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,840
specific memory of like 
somebody's partner was joining 

337
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,720
us for a game. 
Oh, I want my, like pet wolf to 

338
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,120
jump up and push someone over. 
I was like, Oh well, you should 

339
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:14,840
make the wolf attack because 
it's a free trip attack. 

340
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,480
Afterwards, it's like, who 
fucking cares what the rules 

341
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:17,880
say? 
Just let the dog trip someone 

342
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:18,800
over. 
It's fine. 

343
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,320
So I started with 3.5 for the 
most part. 

344
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,680
So I think I like, radicalized 
me against all crunchy games, 

345
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,040
basically. 
It's just like 1 long reaction 

346
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,240
to that. 
So yeah, it's just the way I 

347
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,360
like to run games. 
Like less rules, more fun, 

348
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,200
basically. 
But it couldn't be more right 

349
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,280
there with you on that. 
The lighter the better. 

350
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,360
Just get out of the way. 
Let me do the things I wanna do.

351
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,320
And how did I know? 
This is again the 3rd project 

352
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:50,600
that you guys have worked on 
with this. 

353
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,560
But at what point were you like,
all right David's the guy that's

354
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,680
gonna do the art for this cuz 
art style is insane. 

355
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,840
Like it brings everything, all 
the writing like perfectly to 

356
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:02,400
life. 
And I imagine in my head like 

357
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,920
there is no way I couldn't 
imagine like the character art 

358
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,760
that that, you know David has 
done in this. 

359
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,320
So like what what was what? 
What got you guys back together 

360
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:09,880
on this one? 
Trying. 

361
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,360
To remember how you let me apart
from serendipity because it is 

362
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:17,120
perfect. 
I don't remember how. 

363
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,240
Correct. 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I 

364
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,920
think Russ Nicholson decided not
to do it. 

365
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,800
There was like, I think it was 
also on like Dan sells pole was 

366
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,160
gonna lie, I'm not sure if it's 
like the right move for us 

367
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,560
because that was potentially 
happening at one point, but I 

368
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,320
definitely think we ended up 
with the better choice there. 

369
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:43,280
I mean, Russ Nicholson is a 
huge, huge choose to fill, so I 

370
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,560
don't mind being a runner up for
that. 

371
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,480
But yeah, no, I think it just 
ended up work. 

372
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:55,960
Like, I just really liked the 
the original set of rules that 

373
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:57,680
Luke had put out, like the 
original book. 

374
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:03,040
Like, I'm a huge, I like 
Warhammer Fantasy role-playing, 

375
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,440
the style of it. 
The aesthetic of it, I guess, 

376
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,800
which is kind of medieval with 
Victorian trappings, is kind of 

377
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,520
the way I've always seen it. 
Like, you know, the lowers, 

378
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,640
they're down in the dirt in the 
uppers. 

379
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,400
Even though it's medieval, you 
can still have guys with like 

380
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,960
pancake makeup and big. 
Goofy, like wigs and stuff and 

381
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,040
it just works. 
It makes sense. 

382
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:31,000
So I always like that. 
I loved Luke had a piece of art 

383
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:37,840
for the original set of rules. 
That was, was it Gustav? 

384
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:44,440
Dori, The death, Death of Savoy?
Or. 

385
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,400
I forget the name of the piece, 
but it's just this dude getting 

386
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,480
like filled with arrows and this
other guy coming through and 

387
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,760
stabbing him, like coming 
through a window up above him 

388
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,240
and stabbing him with a spear, 
just like this, this guy just 

389
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,160
getting lit up. 
So I actually did. 

390
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:01,080
I just finished a recreation 
like of that original piece 

391
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,920
because I loved it so much as 
one of the full pagers in 

392
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,080
swipers. 
So it's got like a little homage

393
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,360
to that to that old. 
I think they, I think they're 

394
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:16,440
all Ed chains cool pieces. 
So that kind of like set the 

395
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:23,640
tone and like I I like that it 
was human centric with like rat 

396
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,000
men. 
I'm a big Lenkmar guy too. 

397
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,600
Like I love Fritz Lieber and all
that. 

398
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,560
So it was very like it kind of 
just hit on all these all these 

399
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:32,920
things. 
I hate drawing buildings. 

400
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:38,920
So that's been a thing but you 
know you got to I mean they look

401
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,480
great you know, thank you. 
They they take way too long. 

402
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,120
Everything takes way too long 
with me like especially with 

403
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:50,200
this one because like I'm I I 
originally the first pieces I 

404
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,840
did I was like I was also 
looking at like a lot of Barry 

405
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:59,800
Windsor Smith recently past few 
years and and just I wanted to 

406
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,080
not use Gray. 
I wanted to just make a bunch of

407
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,520
lines to like Gray Gray like 
those. 

408
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,280
Like I was looking at like a lot
of etchings as well and it it 

409
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,160
ended up, you know, if you can't
just do a Gray wash, you have to

410
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,200
do it all in lines and you can't
just do straight lines. 

411
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,120
So like a lot of the times you 
can't just do straight lines. 

412
00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:22,480
Some people can pull it off, but
like, you know, you kind of have

413
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,960
to do contour lines. 
So it's just like a lot of 

414
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,600
lines. 
Every piece has so many lines. 

415
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,360
And I'm really kicking myself 
for that because I'm already 

416
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:34,880
slow and it slowed me down 
considerably. 

417
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,200
So it's I've been doing art for 
this project on and off for like

418
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,720
2 years or something at this 
point. 

419
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,360
I think visually though, I mean,
the 11 of the pieces that really

420
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:51,760
stood out to me is in the quick 
start on page like 7:00 or 

421
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,120
8:00-ish, where it's the guy 
like pinching his nose and 

422
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:57,440
throwing a coin to the other guy
and the other guy's got a dagger

423
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,680
behind his back. 
I wish. 

424
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,880
He's by itself a really great 
piece. 

425
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,640
But the background has this like
like almost like the etching 

426
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,840
style, like lines all across. 
I was like, man, I know that 

427
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,040
took a minute. 
It looks great. 

428
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,360
I mean, I I love the way 
visually it comes across, but. 

429
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,600
Yeah, I don't know if the one 
that everyone has seen has, like

430
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,600
there's one with a person like 
running and jumping across 

431
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,880
rooftops like and there's like a
bigger building in the 

432
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,920
background and stuff. 
That one was really tough and 

433
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,880
then there's another one. 
There's another really good 

434
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,000
building in the the estate for 
the adventure, which I don't 

435
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,000
think any, I don't think 
anybody's seen that yet. 

436
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,080
But the adventures got a really 
great, like throw you in the 

437
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,280
middle of a situation, like 
you're trying to rob a place and

438
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,320
you get put in the middle of 
like a situation in the place 

439
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,800
you're trying to rob. 
But there's like a good drawing 

440
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,360
of the estate where I went in. 
I just like every blade of grass

441
00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:57,040
and every leaf. 
I really got in there and that 

442
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,360
one turned out really good. 
But that's also another one that

443
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:01,520
like when you see it, it's going
to probably be this big on a 

444
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,480
page, but it has like 800 hours 
worth of work. 

445
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:12,160
Or something stupid. 
But you know, I mean that's, I 

446
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,560
mean stuff like that though, 
that's the reason that you're in

447
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,800
a box set with like Air Lotus 
and Peter Mullen, you know what 

448
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,440
I mean? 
Because like the guys that you 

449
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,440
look up to, I'm sure there's 
people out there right now 

450
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,480
they're like, fuck, like David 
Hoskins. 

451
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,400
Like they see your work as the 
same as theirs, you know, and 

452
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,760
it's it's so it's so crazy good,
like everything that's in the 

453
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,880
quick start and and plus your 
work otherwise. 

454
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,160
But like the attention to detail
is so evident. 

455
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,400
But there's also especially in 
swivers and I don't know like 

456
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,520
maybe I'm just you know pulling 
stuff out of my ass here. 

457
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,360
But there's this like, I don't 
know like underlying like 

458
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:47,080
Malevolence to like everybody's 
features like across the entire 

459
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,800
thing where it's just like 
that's intentional. 

460
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,120
Yeah. 
It's everybody is a piece of 

461
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:54,640
shit, right. 
Like, yeah, people down here are

462
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,600
piece of shit and the people 
that are up top or they got 

463
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:58,920
there because they're pieces of 
shit. 

464
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,600
So like that's just sort of the 
setting you know like and it's 

465
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,800
but it's all, it's all funny too
because it like, it's same with 

466
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,000
Warhammer fantasy, right. 
Like the classic stuff, like 

467
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,480
when you read 1st and 2nd 
edition, like in particular, 

468
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:18,440
like it's all very like 
sarcastically like shitty, like.

469
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,040
It's mod blood and shit, man. 
Yeah, yeah. 

470
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,320
And so it's not, it's not, it's 
not grim and shitty. 

471
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,160
You know it's it's it's fun and 
shitty. 

472
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,440
I guess it's a good way to put 
it. 

473
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,120
Yeah. 
I mean, again, it it comes 

474
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:38,920
through so evidently in the art 
and in the attention to detail, 

475
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,280
it's even the piece. 
So there's a piece I don't you 

476
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,720
probably didn't say it but above
you it's like the the piece 

477
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,000
that's basically the header for 
the Kickstarter page and just 

478
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,000
zooming in on that not even 
needed to zoom in. 

479
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,240
But like they the time the 
attention to detail the lines 

480
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,520
everything on that is it's 
insane. 

481
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,920
And the fact that there's gonna 
be 100 pages that's like all 

482
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,240
filled with like just your art 
because I I'm I love when 

483
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,320
there's like a bunch of artists 
in book, but like it's like all 

484
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,000
the art, it is yours. 
It's every single page. 

485
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,640
I'm guaranteeing it right now. 
No. 

486
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,320
But just the fact that it's like
just you odd throughout the 

487
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,920
entire book, like and this 
consistency to style and the 

488
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,840
attention to detail and all of 
it like this is and the cover is

489
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,920
absolutely stunning. 
I mean, again, he's like being 

490
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,120
able to read this what again 
Luke's incredible writing and 

491
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:31,960
then have your work just be so 
perfect for it Like this book 

492
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,200
without even having it in hand 
yet is already like one of my 

493
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,720
favorite. 
It's like it's, it's absolutely 

494
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,400
fantastic. 
And again, the attention to the 

495
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,240
flavor, the art, the writing 
like everything is, is, is 

496
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,600
stunning. 
Thank you. 

497
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,280
Yeah, I mean it, it's easy when 
you got like when you've got 

498
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,400
such good source material like 
it, it really, you know, like I 

499
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,920
said before like even the 
equipment section has like 

500
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:03,120
somebody giving like a like 
commentary on the on the piece 

501
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:04,600
of equipment like what it's good
for. 

502
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,080
You know like a crowbar, you 
know it's like get you out of 

503
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,280
the pinch. 
Hey, like, I don't know. 

504
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,560
Luke can, Luke can can do some 
some of that. 

505
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,400
Probably a bit better. 
Than I think, 'cause it was 

506
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,720
like, it was like written with 
my mate Dan, sort of. 

507
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,920
It was like just for me, like a 
lot, a lot of the, the starting 

508
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,720
places like, oh, well, that's 
kind of funny. 

509
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,400
Like in a lot of the work I do 
like, oh, that's funny from like

510
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,320
a perspective to think like 
because it was working like with

511
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,200
my mate, it was like we went 
more into that like, oh, it's, 

512
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,800
it's funny. 
Like it's just kind of meant to 

513
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,840
be funny, Which is why 
everything has that kind of 

514
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,640
sense of tone and that kind of 
sense of like, oh, this is a 

515
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,440
person talking to you. 
And then like you said before, 

516
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,040
like, 'cause robots could be so 
fucking boring. 

517
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,000
And I was like, well, what if 
one was fun? 

518
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,200
Like, let's try that, which I 
hopefully works. 

519
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,240
I mean, it makes me laugh like. 
The the Howbrid, right. 

520
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:01,120
Like that's I think, I think 
that that's a Swiss weapon or 

521
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:02,200
something like that. 
Yeah. 

522
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,320
And so like in the description 
for the howbrid, it's like this 

523
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,600
is really great, but it's from 
the continent. 

524
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,200
So like I don't know. 
I don't know if I can be seen 

525
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,080
with that. 
It's from the those, those, 

526
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:15,880
those people from the continent 
brought it over. 

527
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,120
Yeah, look, it's definitely. 
That funny cynicism. 

528
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:23,960
Yeah. 
Look, it's definitely poking a 

529
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,320
lot of fun at like a lot of the 
examined and unexamined like 

530
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,920
biases and like British culture.
Like there's a lot of like use 

531
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,280
of the term like foreigner, 
which is like something like 

532
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,400
spat when someone's oh, they're 
foreign foreigner and it's like 

533
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,160
it's fucking ridiculous. 
Like grow up. 

534
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,840
So like it's kind of is very 
much the like where you elevate 

535
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,000
it to the point where like you 
can only see the fact that it's 

536
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,920
ridiculous and it becomes funny 
despite like originating in that

537
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,240
kind of horrid thing. 
Just because there's so much 

538
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,920
like British nationalism around,
like the history stuff, and it's

539
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,600
kind of just like, it's the same
as anywhere else, like a bunch 

540
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,120
of, like, rich kings and shit 
getting people to kill each 

541
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,800
other. 
A bunch of really rich, terrible

542
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,560
people in charge making people 
do terrible things around them, 

543
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:07,400
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

544
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:08,600
Like, it's not, we're not 
special. 

545
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:09,920
Like, it's the same as 
everywhere else. 

546
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,160
We do it a bit longer than some 
places. 

547
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,280
So, like, a lot of it's kind of,
yeah, trying to deconstruct some

548
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,760
of that and like, kind of, yeah,
turn it into like kind of a 

549
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,760
farce, like a parody. 
Like some of the shit was like, 

550
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,960
oh, what's the war? 
And it's like, oh, it's like 

551
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,240
it's this Scottish rebellion or 
like, oh, it's Napoleon, like a 

552
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,720
couple of 100 years early or 
whatever. 

553
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:37,000
Like it's all meant to be kind 
of riffs on that, which is like 

554
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,560
fun, I think anyway, enjoyable. 
Yeah. 

555
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,640
I mean, there's a distinct like 
Britishness to this, obviously. 

556
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,840
And I can only assume it's 
because that's where you're 

557
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,600
from. 
But was like, I know there's 

558
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,720
like you said there's like a mix
kind of of like the time period.

559
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,800
Was that always the idea to have
it be this kind of anachronisms 

560
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,120
like throughout it with like 
this kind of general sense of of

561
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,520
the past ishness in it. 
But like what? 

562
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,480
Or has that kind of evolved as 
you were writing with with Dan 

563
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,000
and and and getting the art and 
stuff? 

564
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,280
So originally it was meant to be
more like strictly medieval, 

565
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,080
Just cause I I hate steampunk, 
It makes me lose my shit. 

566
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:22,440
So I was like, I don't want it 
to be steampunk. 

567
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,200
That's that's rule one. 
No, steampunk. 

568
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,800
And then it is kind of, as I was
doing more more research, I 

569
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,120
thought, well, yeah, but you 
know, you want to have coppers 

570
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,200
in there. 
It's a crime game. 

571
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,320
So you kind of have to have 
coppers. 

572
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,240
And I thought, well, OK, they're
like they're super late as an 

573
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,680
innovation, like, you know, 
police won't invent it till 18 

574
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,920
something. 
So it's like, OK, we'll bring 

575
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,240
those back. 
And then it's kind of like, 

576
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,320
well, we kind of want to have 
more of a kind of like not quite

577
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,280
landed aristocracy but like 
nobility. 

578
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,360
So I kind of bring some stuff 
back and it's kind of as from 

579
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,760
looking established base of 
like, oh, it's medieval And then

580
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,160
like kind of just taking more 
and more, bringing it, bringing 

581
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,280
it backwards. 
But being deliberate about the 

582
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,320
elements that trying to bring 
back like kind of, even if it's 

583
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,000
not in the text like somewhere 
I've acknowledged at least to 

584
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,240
myself it's like, OK, that's 
that's super anachronistic. 

585
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,800
That's like not at all of the 
time, but like it makes it more 

586
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,520
entertaining. 
So I'm not too fussed. 

587
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,480
Like it's kind of meant to be, 
yeah, like a mess. 

588
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,320
And it's kind of, there's a mix 
of a lot of different time 

589
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,800
periods and places in there 
which I think kind of adds to it

590
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,640
hopefully. 
Yeah, it gives it some this 

591
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,320
across time feel. 
So I can definitely see this is 

592
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,560
definitely that looked upsetting
where it's bunch of guys with 

593
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,960
cogs glued to their hats and 
stuff, you know? 

594
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,840
There's firearms or anything in 
the rule book. 

595
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:49,360
So like you know it's but you 
could easily like insert it in 

596
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:54,480
and play it in modern day or 
earlier or I mean they said 

597
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,040
there's someone in the 
Kickstarter comments that were 

598
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,640
like hey if you were did you 
read that Luke where they're 

599
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,360
like if you're wondering that 
the side if the Cyborg like Job 

600
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,800
like Builder works on this game 
the answer is yes there's 

601
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,000
something. 
That's cool as fuck I didn't 

602
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,560
see. 
That so somebody, so somebody's 

603
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,640
already like looking at like the
the job, like the job creator 

604
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,600
thing. 
That's like a process in Cyborg.

605
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,400
That's so funny. 
Yeah. 

606
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,320
Are you are you have you got yet
or do you expect to get those 

607
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,720
feel that's like, well actually 
like this wouldn't exist in this

608
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,720
time period like kind of thing 
or is it just gonna be like it's

609
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,240
fun? 
Fuck, like what it like? 

610
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,920
Yeah. 
You know, do you have potatoes 

611
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,480
in your games? 
If so, shut the fuck up. 

612
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,000
Like you know people, they'll 
pick and choose the things to 

613
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:44,720
be. 
I don't know. 

614
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,200
That's not not very settingable.
Shut up. 

615
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:48,880
Who cares? 
Like, if you wanna, if you wanna

616
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,760
run something that's like super 
on point historically, go for 

617
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,640
it. 
Have fun, but don't complain to 

618
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,720
someone else's. 
You know, like, I look forward 

619
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,960
to your Bronze Age authentic 
role-playing game. 

620
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,040
But until it comes out, I'll 
wait. 

621
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,640
I did see some guy saying that, 
like the art didn't look 1860s 

622
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,600
or whatever. 
And I was like, yeah, OK. 

623
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,240
'Cause I made it at the 20 
Twenties, pal, It's 2020. 

624
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,400
It's like. 
And it's. 

625
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,680
Yeah. 
And it's not real 1860s. 

626
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:28,800
It's like weird fantasy London 
medieval sort of like, yeah. 

627
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,840
Yeah, why isn't this book hand 
printed in Latin? 

628
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,120
You know, really being time 
period. 

629
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,080
Correct. 
Why can't any of us read it and 

630
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,760
not just the landed nobility, 
you know? 

631
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,840
Yeah, I think they were talking 
about like the clothing and 

632
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,600
like, yeah, but you know, like 
the whatever. 

633
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,520
Well, listen, at least we know 
you ruined one person's 

634
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,440
immersion, You know what I mean?
Like, there we go. 

635
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,480
That's perfect. 
So pull like things from 

636
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,480
different you know, like I was 
looking at medieval costuming 

637
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:04,400
and Victorian costuming and 
French and British or whatever, 

638
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,360
like old medieval English stuff 
and just kind of picking and 

639
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,840
choosing elements that I liked 
from all that and like making 

640
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,840
the. 
Like that's an interesting 

641
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,159
setting though, like that's AI 
mean I I think the the luxury of

642
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:22,880
what we all take part in in this
is that we don't have to stay 

643
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,280
very honest or truthful to any 
time period. 

644
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,760
We can do whatever works for 
whatever we're doing well. 

645
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,239
I mean, if the writing is 
anachronistic, like there's no 

646
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,679
reason the art wouldn't be 
anachronistic. 

647
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:35,840
It makes it like it. 
It pairs correctly, like if the 

648
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,800
writing was like had all these 
anachronistic bits, but then you

649
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,320
did like every piece of art, 
like exactly specifically to 

650
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,159
like one time period that would 
be in and of itself like a a, a 

651
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:48,159
much deeper, an anachronism that
would make it not make sense. 

652
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:51,400
But the fact that like, it all 
fits because it's all kind of 

653
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,960
like a mix is exactly why it all
fits. 

654
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,920
So and it's like it's like 
finding a a balance like if you 

655
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,720
sort of anchor yourself into a 
certain time period, they're 

656
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:06,080
gonna be like aesthetic choices 
that look cool and things that 

657
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,360
just don't look cool. 
And then you want to you know, 

658
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,680
like I I don't really like a lot
of like Magic the Gathering or 

659
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,800
like modern day like art. 
Like especially when you see 

660
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,560
like armor and stuff like that 
like it, it just doesn't look 

661
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,600
right. 
It looks too like, like it looks

662
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,440
too crazy. 
I don't know, like, because 

663
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,920
that's kind of a weird thing to 
say because I do like crazy ass 

664
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,760
armor. 
Like, I don't know, it looks 

665
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,920
too. 
Her like her. 

666
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,960
I think it's ornamental rather 
than crazy. 

667
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,720
Yeah. 
Or like pieces that just don't 

668
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:41,520
look right, or. 
They don't non functioning, 

669
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,640
yeah. 
So it's kind of, it's kind of 

670
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,680
like trying to find that balance
of making things look functional

671
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:55,080
but like stylish and fun. 
That something that I try to do 

672
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,080
like in a lot of my, I think a 
lot of my stuff. 

673
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:03,000
Yeah, totally makes sense. 
So forward-looking for swivers. 

674
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,320
Key share is going right now. 
Y'all are at. 

675
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,400
I just clicked away but I think 
like 77,000 and I looked at. 

676
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:15,040
USD 61,000 lbs? 
Yeah. 

677
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:19,880
On that We're at not enough and 
we need everybody to buy more. 

678
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,040
Yeah, everyone get on this right
now. 

679
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,760
We're scared they're not going 
to make honestly right. 

680
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,480
But like. 
Looking past like the release of

681
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,600
swivers like, is this a system 
that you guys see yourself 

682
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,440
supporting with like more 
content in the future? 

683
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,440
Definitely any any hints or any 
ideas you have about that? 

684
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,920
So we're doing a thing where 
like if you're back in the first

685
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,280
48 hours, sorry everyone hasn't 
backed already. 

686
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,320
But yeah, it's a chance we're 
going to put out like a little 

687
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,680
free one immediately. 
A little follow up adventure 

688
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,080
just to not even follow up. 
Just like here's like a place 

689
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,480
and a bunch of shit and you can 
do all kinds of stuff with this.

690
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,360
And here's some ideas for that. 
Just as a little thank you for 

691
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,240
jumping on it straight away 
apart from that. 

692
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:09,200
So the big one is we're going to
release it under a license the 

693
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,960
same as Troika. 
It's like as long as you don't 

694
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,840
pretend that we're best mates or
something do whatever you want, 

695
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,600
you know just make sure for 
swipers, please make stuff. 

696
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,480
But beyond that I definitely 
we've we've we've not talked 

697
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,920
about too much because Dan 
Cherry are very busy running the

698
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,800
Kickstarter. 
But there will definitely be 

699
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,280
follow up stuff because one 
thing like I've always talked 

700
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,400
about very publicly is like, 
don't just release, don't just 

701
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:35,720
turn out systems like support 
them. 

702
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,280
And like Swipers is something 
that's very Arsenal to me is 

703
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,360
like the first big system I 
wrote and it's kind of the first

704
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,960
bigger project they ever did. 
So it's like I wanna make sure I

705
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,480
support it. 
And there's so much shit in that

706
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:53,160
book that could be expanded out.
Like I've had a few people say, 

707
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:54,680
oh is there gonna be more stuff 
about the rat men? 

708
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:55,920
Cuz people really like the rat 
men. 

709
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,560
So me and Dan have been talking 
cuz he's running another Swivers

710
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,640
campaign soon. 
So he's like oh like you know, I

711
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,920
can start working on a bunch of 
extra shit about rat men. 

712
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:09,080
Then because there's the 
permissiveness of the setting in

713
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,160
all of these. 
You can get away with quite a 

714
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,200
lot of stuff. 
Like if you want to get really 

715
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,320
hardcore weird, go down into the
underground like the midden and 

716
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,320
all that. 
If you want to do something a 

717
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,400
bit more grounded you can just 
do like, oh here's three crime 

718
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,960
bosses, crime bosses, they all 
hate each other, here's the 

719
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:25,640
districts done. 
Even though, like, you could 

720
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,120
take the book and run the start 
adventure and just run a 

721
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,440
campaign based on that for like 
years, probably we still want to

722
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,600
be supporting it with like his 
more stuff about rivers, his 

723
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,440
stuff about going into the 
countryside. 

724
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:41,960
Here's just a bunch of places to
rob, possibly looking at doing a

725
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:42,960
prison. 
We'll see. 

726
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,840
It's like a follow up that might
be fun because if you get 

727
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,280
caught, you get sent to prison 
rather than just get executed 

728
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:50,760
and then you can try and break 
out of prison. 

729
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,400
That's always good fun. 
Well, we all love a prison 

730
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,880
break. 
It's good times, yeah. 

731
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,040
And over the last year, we've 
had a lot when we talk to 

732
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,880
people, a lot more people are 
kind of shifting into that 

733
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,240
mindset of if I make something 
and I love it, like the creator 

734
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:08,320
speaking for them, that they 
want to do more with that system

735
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,120
as opposed to just churning out 
more and more systems. 

736
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,800
And that's. 
I mean that first of all as you 

737
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,240
make more stuff, people will go 
back and buy the core book. 

738
00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:19,600
Like that's kind of the thing 
and you really make your money 

739
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,800
on on, you know the second and 
third print. 

740
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,080
We all know that we've heard 
this before. 

741
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,680
But also it's just fun to have 
more stuff from the people that 

742
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,080
you love when they make stuff 
that you love. 

743
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,680
So like it's it's it's nice to 
be able to get that support. 

744
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,760
So you said for the first 48 
they got an adventure, but other

745
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:39,200
than those people with 9 days 
left, when people go back 

746
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,320
swipers on Kickstarter, we'll 
make sure the links are below. 

747
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,960
What what can they actually get 
like from the Kickstarter? 

748
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,600
From the tiers. 
You can get digital copy, 

749
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,400
physical copy you can get. 
I believe it's a shilling 

750
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,760
because the decision that nobody
pushed back against everyone 

751
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,360
should have done it uses British
old money, so rather than like a

752
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,960
sensible decimal system. 
We're using the old # shilling 

753
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,960
and pence, so it's like 12. 
No, let me get this right, it's 

754
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,960
20 shillings to the no. 
Yeah, 12 shillings to the pound,

755
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:17,440
20 pence to the shilling. 
Because it's awful, it sucks. 

756
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,360
And it's really funny that we 
use this for hundreds of years 

757
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,320
as a an actual monetary system. 
So you can. 

758
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,360
Get we all have to do. 
It. 

759
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,960
Yeah, now everyone else has to. 
That's very it's very British. 

760
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:37,760
You know we're exporting our 
awfulness so you get shilling, 

761
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,200
you can get AT shirt, which has,
which has David's Gray art on it

762
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,160
and says swipers. 
And there's the very the kind of

763
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,440
one off print of the fancy 
edition with like gold foil and 

764
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,440
buckram is what it's called the 
the paper they're using on the 

765
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,640
cover. 
So it will be sick as fuck, 

766
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,240
hopefully. 
I'm sure it will be no ribbons 

767
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:00,760
though. 
We didn't make a Millie, so Dan 

768
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:01,960
Cell's not putting a ribbon in 
it. 

769
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,960
Oh man, good. 
Gotta gotta put a ribbon. 

770
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,840
Yeah, Ribbons is so fucking 
funny, man. 

771
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,480
He why? 
Why does he hate ribbons? 

772
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,000
Is it just like a a production 
thing, or is it just like he, 

773
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,760
generally on his own, hates 
ribbons? 

774
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,000
I think it's because a lot of 
people put them as like a 

775
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,520
stretch goal and like the 
cheapest fuck to add to the 

776
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:24,920
book. 
Like they raise the production 

777
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,840
value but like the production 
cost by like pennies on the on 

778
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:28,800
the pound or something like 
that. 

779
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,600
So it's like why is this stretch
goal? 

780
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,160
It's nothing. 
The ribbon costs always nothing.

781
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,560
So it's like AI think it's a 
joke for him to set the ribbon 

782
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:43,880
as the highest possible tier. 
I mean, I I love the joke, but I

783
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,120
would also love ribbons. 
So let's. 

784
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,640
Add it myself, Glue gun I. 
Mean you you, they just glue the

785
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:50,920
thing in and then you just have 
one. 

786
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,480
So that's nice. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

787
00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:54,280
Scrap paper, man. 
Use. 

788
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,320
Use an old receipt. 
Just shove it in there. 

789
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,840
Oh, that's open corners. 
I'm an animal. 

790
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,440
Yeah. 
Oh my God, yeah. 

791
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:03,560
I can't. 
I can't. 

792
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,480
I I have this whole this whole, 
like, crusade I'm on right now 

793
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,840
to teach people how to break in 
their paperback books so that 

794
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,160
they don't increase the 
bindings. 

795
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,200
I can't. 
Just draw on it. 

796
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,600
Just, you know, it's like, oh, 
I've highlighted it, but drawing

797
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,040
on it and I've got some book 
dots and shit in there, that's 

798
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,160
great. 
So I'm definitely the person 

799
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,160
where like if I buy like there's
books out there where they're 

800
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,280
like right in the book because 
this is like an object. 

801
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,920
When you're done I buy 2 so that
I don't have to write one. 

802
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,120
I so here's how bad I am. 
I bought 2 about Mouse order box

803
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,800
sets so that I could not punch 
out the the little, the little 

804
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,440
tokens in one of them and 
actually play with another one. 

805
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,320
That's how I'm not kidding. 
Like I have two. 

806
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,160
I have two of them box sets just
so I don't have to punch one 

807
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,040
out. 
I used to do stuff like that 

808
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,480
because I was like this might be
worth something because I come 

809
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,960
from like a like a comic book 
collect and record collecting 

810
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:59,480
like sort of compulsion. 
And then I had to move and I've 

811
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,800
got all this stuff and I was 
like, all right, like, so now I 

812
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,880
got to sell this stuff because I
don't want to move it. 

813
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:05,720
And I'm like, I can't be 
bothered to sell this. 

814
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:08,640
Like, I can't be bothered to, 
like end up giving like a ton of

815
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,480
shit away, which is always cool.
Like people get free stuff and 

816
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,920
they get cool stuff. 
But I'm like, I didn't need that

817
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,480
second copy of whatever that I 
was saving because I just ended 

818
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,600
up, like getting rid of it 
anyway. 

819
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:25,680
Like just I can't be bothered to
eat going to the, going to the 

820
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,560
post, going to the post office. 
Like, who wants to do that? 

821
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:30,680
I don't want to mail you 
anything. 

822
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:36,640
Like just don't just stop. 
I mean I guess it's I'll I'll if

823
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,120
I ever have to say something me 
and Luke do just don't buy extra

824
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,000
copies. 
But yeah, yeah, if I could. 

825
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,400
Yeah, if I could stop myself. 
Trust me I would my paycheck 

826
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,440
would love it like the 8 
bookshelves I have would love 

827
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:51,080
it. 
It would be great. 

828
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,760
But but I can't. 
So if if people make stuff and 

829
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,760
it has a ribbon and a special 
edition, I'm usually, you know, 

830
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,760
up there in the top 10 backers. 
So for for for both of you. 

831
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,760
I know we already asked about 
Swivers, obviously going to 

832
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,240
create more stuff for that but 
are either of you currently 

833
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:11,680
working on? 
Like what's the next thing for 

834
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,160
for Luke Gearing and David 
Hoskins coming after after this 

835
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,320
campaign? 
I can't see how swivers at the 

836
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,200
moment, so it's going to be all,
Luke. 

837
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,040
Reasonable. 
Yeah. 

838
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:26,800
So I don't know because in 
January, 1st of January I quit 

839
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,880
my day job. 
So now I work for Tuesday night 

840
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,160
full time. 
So Congrats, don't think I'm 

841
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:33,120
allowed. 
Thank you. 

842
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,360
But I don't think I'm allowed to
say anything about what I'm 

843
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,640
doing there. 
The big one is hopefully Wolves 

844
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:45,360
box set later this year. 
I'm just leaning in my what? 

845
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,960
Well, I'm gonna try and keep it 
below 3 digits for the price. 

846
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,800
We'll see how that goes, but. 
Thank you. 

847
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,000
Doing it, Yeah, I'm trying. 
I don't know if I'll succeed. 

848
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,920
I'm trying. 
So I'm buying up the art piece 

849
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,200
by piece, taking it nice and 
slow, making sure that it's all 

850
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,880
there. 
So we're looking at one piece of

851
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,880
art for each one of the kind of 
PDFs. 

852
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,160
Has its own art, Big art on the 
front of the box. 

853
00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:16,120
I'm gonna print it all locally 
because why do things the easy 

854
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,400
way when I can do it the 
hardest, most expensive way for 

855
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,720
every single choice. 
So hopefully we'll be doing the 

856
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,000
pre-order for that at the 
towards end of this year is the 

857
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:26,400
hope. 
Stoked. 

858
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,760
This is my current copy of. 
Wolves. 

859
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,480
Yeah, Hell yeah. 
Look at that binder. 

860
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,320
Yep. 
And we got Binder and 

861
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,320
everything, man. 
So many hexes. 

862
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:41,800
Yeah. 
Well, I mean basically created 

863
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,920
an entire new crowdfunding style
with Wolves upon the coast. 

864
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,760
There's literally like AI don't 
want to call it what see but 

865
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:53,160
like style of crowdfunding on it
with like the I know slow 

866
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,480
funding existed, but this kind 
of like slow funding but like 

867
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,200
increase the cost as like the 
content increases thing. 

868
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,440
I know that Christian Sorrell 
Meek House on the chat. 

869
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,760
I know that they're doing that 
with AM and then some other ones

870
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,080
are doing that as well. 
It's cool. 

871
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,080
Yeah, so cool. 
Yeah, I'm really happy to see 

872
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,680
people doing it. 
Like, I think because like 

873
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,280
Kickstart leader, don't remember
K Star is great. 

874
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,400
But also like, you're not 
building anything for yourself, 

875
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,080
You're kind of just building 
stuff for Kickstarter at the 

876
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,800
same time. 
But like, I get it, you know, 

877
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,560
you got to put money, you got to
get the money, you get paid. 

878
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,280
But yeah, it's cool, really cool
to see more people doing it 

879
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,800
because I think it is, the more 
people do it, the more effective

880
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,400
it becomes. 
The more people follow through, 

881
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,720
deliver on everything, the more 
people will be like, oh cool 

882
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:37,040
yeah, I'll give it a go. 
Like the only big thing is just 

883
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,000
set your price at a reason, like
I set it way too low, $5 is way 

884
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,480
too low to start and I should 
have smaller increments as a 

885
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:44,920
result. 
But I think it's cool. 

886
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,800
Model look, I'm really glad to 
see people following it because 

887
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,680
I was worried that it's like 
maybe this just works for me. 

888
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,280
I don't want someone else to 
follow it and then be like, 

889
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,520
fuck, I've made like £2.50 so 
I'm glad that other people tried

890
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,360
it and it's worked for them. 
So I think it's it's got legs. 

891
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,120
It's good to see. 
Yeah, I mean especially for 

892
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,680
people that you know, don't want
to deal with Kickstarter or want

893
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,000
the like that work slow and are 
able to like put stuff out at 

894
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,680
their time, at their pace, fund 
it as they go, stop when they 

895
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,680
want to continue when they don't
and and then get to it. 

896
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:20,560
Yeah, so, so wizard, Wizard, 
fuck me, Wolves upon the Coast, 

897
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,200
Swivers, fever swim, all that 
stuff. 

898
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,840
Like where can people find first
Luke? 

899
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,440
Like where, where, if, when 
people go out and find all the 

900
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,800
stuff from Luke Gearing, where's
the best place they can look for

901
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,320
all that stuff? 
So if you go loop gearing dot 

902
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,880
block dot I am, there's like a 
published works thing at the top

903
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,880
which I think is really up to 
date and that's got links to 

904
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:45,360
where you can buy all the ship. 
Those places if you are also 

905
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,080
cursed. 
I'm still on Twitter for now. 

906
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,280
We'll see how long that lasts. 
Those are the big two. 

907
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:54,920
Try to think if there's anything
at that. 

908
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,560
Yeah, there's the big two. 
There's a mailing list, but I'm 

909
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,320
changing providers so converting
it a little bit. 

910
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,880
Yeah cuz fucking time that it's 
closing cuz male chimp folks. 

911
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,280
So we'll see how the new one 
goes, and if not, I'll be 

912
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,320
bouncing around for a while so I
wouldn't say where yet. 

913
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,000
Case of shit. 
And and David, same thing, where

914
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,240
can people find, find your art, 
find you and and and more of 

915
00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:24,840
that. 
You can find me online at just 

916
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:30,360
basically at David Hoskins on 
those things, but I don't, I 

917
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,800
find it very tiring. 
So I don't, I don't do much and 

918
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,960
I don't engage much on social 
media. 

919
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:40,080
But David Hoskins, 
art@gmail.com, if you want to 

920
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:45,680
like get in touch with me about 
anything in particular, that's 

921
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,480
about it. 
Like, yeah, I, I post art on 

922
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,600
Instagram and yeah, that's about
it. 

923
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,960
Yeah, I'm pretty much like just 
booked up with Swivers and then 

924
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:02,920
day job stuff with with Exalted.
So that's it. 

925
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,880
There you go. 
Hey, listen, seriously, thank 

926
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,720
you guys so much for coming on 
the show. 

927
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:09,400
Swiber's is fantastic. 
Again, as we sit at the top, you

928
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,440
are two of our favorite people 
in the fields that you're in 

929
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,240
like from art and writing. 
You just absolutely incredible. 

930
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:16,880
Thank you guys so much. 
No, thank you, man. 

931
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,080
Thank you for having us on. 
Really, really glad we could 

932
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,440
work. 
Yeah, really, really appreciate 

933
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,040
it. 
Obviously, if you guys ever do 

934
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,480
anything in the future or ever 
want to talk again, please just 

935
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,840
shoot me an e-mail, our message 
and we will have you back on in 

936
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,920
a heartbeat. 
We'll make time and we'll figure

937
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,320
it out. 
But seriously, it's it's the 

938
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,560
half the reason we do the 
podcast and actually talk to 

939
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,720
people is to get the opportunity
to talk to people like you guys.

940
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:37,760
So again, thank you so much. 
That's. 

941
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,240
All again, thank you. 
Very much. 

942
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,600
I don't get out and do anything 
anymore. 

943
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,120
So it's always good to talk to 
people, talk to people, talk to 

944
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:47,760
people that I want to talk to as
well. 

945
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,440
It's it's super nice. 
Like I need to. 

946
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,000
I need to do more things. 
I guess it's like convention 

947
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,200
season's coming up. 
So like I I will be at Gary Con.

948
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,360
If anyone's going to be at Gary 
Con, I'll be there. 

949
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:01,840
So there you go. 
There you go. 

950
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:04,440
All right. 
So everyone, please go back. 

951
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,360
Swivers. 
We will make sure all the links 

952
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,120
to all of that are anywhere that
you are watching or listening to

953
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:10,520
this. 
There is 9 days left. 

954
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,320
I'll make sure this gets out 
tomorrow. 

955
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,520
So if you're listening, there 
will probably be 8 days left. 

956
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,920
Go back and get us to 1,000,000.
Let's get that ribbon from 

957
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,760
Daniel and we'll get it sorted. 
But that is gonna be us for 

958
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:20,880
today. 
Thank you all so much for 

959
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:22,480
listening. 
And we'll see you all later. 

960
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:22,760
Bye. 
Bye. 

961
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,200
Cheers. 
All.