Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll podcast.
My Name Is Ryan. And I'm any old twat from out of
town. And and with us today, we have
two very, very special guests. We have Luke Gearing and David
Hoskins. How you guys doing today?
Yeah, yeah. Thank you.
Thank you both so much for coming on.
Like, this is one of those ones where I'm going to try not to
fangirl the entire time. So it's been nice to talk a
little bit before it happened. But you guys are, I mean,
incredible and we're huge fans. I can only say that I'm sure
Hunter says the same. Yeah, absolutely so.
I mean, I've only mentioned the Wolves upon the coast like four
times this past week on the show, so, but I am currently
running a solo game of it, so. Literally the only thing that
he's talking about, he randomly calls me, like deep in the
afternoon when he knows, obviously, because like, hey, so
I got this question almost above the coast, like what do you
think? And I'm like, all right, cool.
Listen for for those that may not know because their head is
obviously in the sand, who Luke Gearing and David Hoskins are.
Who? Who?
Who are you guys? What might people know you from
David? Hi, my name is David Hoskins.
Mainly a tabletop RPG illustrator.
I kind of got my start just doing band stuff like Flyers and
posters and stuff, and then, you know, kind of slip back into
gaming like maybe not slit. Like dove head first back into
it pretty hard and then start picking up some jobs.
Like I've done stuff for Hyper Borea.
Then I met up with Jarrett Crater, hooked me up with Luke
for Acid Death Fantasy, which was just a really cool one.
So cool. The old school essentials covers
that are in the box sets, which was pretty wild to be there with
like Errol and Peter Mullen and I don't know a bunch of other
odds and that's here and there. I'm also currently Art Director
at Exalted Funeral, so we're looking to get things rolling
and getting a bunch of cool new new stuff out soon, Hopefully an
incredibly. Cool.
Yeah, and Luke. Oh yeah, So I'm Luke.
I do writing stuff for games. Most feel like adventures and
settings and shit, but there's the odd system every now and
then when you know someone twists me arm.
Been doing it for nearly a decade now, because it's not
with Fever Swamp with no Sonia, which is Saint Louis.
Did ADF Swivers, big squirm wolves like the big Solo one.
And now I'm doing all the mothership stuff with Tuesday
night games as well. So yeah, just chugging, chugging
along, putting them out there. There you go.
And this is, I think, if maybe I'm wrong because I know we have
Acid Death, I know we have Black Knight.
So will this be the third project you guys are working on
together? Sounds about right.
I think so, yeah. So many mentally go back.
I. Did some I did some stuff for
mothership for the box set too. I don't know if Luke is have has
anything in that but I. Don't know.
I'm in some of the UCL stuff, so we'll have to compare notes and
see which. One, yeah, maybe that.
I love that you guys have worked on so much stuff that's like
kind of intertwined to be like, Oh yeah, maybe we have another
thing that's together. There's.
There's a ton of talent in that mothership, the box set, when
that fits, there's a ton of talent.
In this I would love to have. A call now, Yeah.
But you said that it was Jared Crater that originally
introduced you guys. Yep, Yeah.
Yeah. Old jerk?
Yeah. Just had him on the show the
other day. He's the space Penguin and
whatnot. Yeah, I I've said this over and
over again, and I feel like it's not an exaggeration that if you
have something that's like in the indie scene, you got at
least a 60 to 70% chance that his name is inside of it.
Oh, for sure. Pretty.
Close, yeah.
It's like it's like 6° of but of Kevin Bacon or whatever, but
it's. But it's Jared Crater.
But it's Jared. But it's less than six.
It's like 2. It's two.
But yeah, he's he's a total Titan.
Absolutely wouldn't be here without him.
Yeah, and and Luke, you've been working with Mawsonia all the
way back since Fever Swamp. How did how did you get linked
up with Daniel Cell and and Mawsonia?
So way back when, Dan Cell first started by doing the Undercroft,
which look a little like 48 page if that Zine sign.
I've said it both ways so everyone could be annoyed at me.
I like Zion, that's I'm looking, you know, people get mad at me,
It's great. So you've got like an open call
after doing the first Undercroft that was all like shit that he
wrote. So I sent in my first actual
published PCOP. He wrote in with with them was
basically a stick figure that kills people that I'd used in my
called Cthulhu campaign. But I started up for the BX
clone at the time, and then it just kind of went from there
where I was, because that was just falling off to uni.
And I kept running out of money at university.
And I thought, oh, I'll send Daniel sell something for
cigarette money. And that's how I repeat the
swamp when I was like shit, like, I don't think left in the
bank. I've spent all my overdraft,
spent all my student loan. I'll write an adventure
accidentally and he'll be like, well, this is too big to put in
a a a copy of Undercroft. So I guess it's his own book and
that's, that was the first one kind of went from there.
Ever since then, it's just been like, oh, here's like a troika
idea. And they're like, cool, thanks,
brilliant. We'll use that or like down.
So we'll be like, hey, do you have anything for Troika?
Could you do one? Which how big?
Squirm started somewhere in there.
He agreed to do Swivers as well. So yeah, it's just been an
ongoing thing for a while now and sort of the context from
there is how mostly Jarrett then led on to sort of everyone else
as well. Yeah, I mean, I just need
cigarette money. So I accidentally wrote one of
like the classic, like, OSR adventures that exist in the
scene right now. You know, just accidentally
wrote like a masterpiece. So it's fine, no worries, you
know? Yeah, cuz I was saying it was
our cigarette money, which is very funny.
Everyone's like, OK, that makes more sense now, yeah.
Cartoons call from hard measures.
Exactly. I was like, well, can I make it
bigger so that the animal pay me more per word?
And he was like, no, like, you know, you'll get rolled these,
it'll be his own book. I'm like, oh, that's great.
But what about rape now? Yeah, that was cool.
That was in my third year of uni, I think.
Finishing off the manuscript for that one and then also working
on swivals because that all kind of kicked off around some sort
of time, I think, but kind of languished for a while and then
very shit happening in the background before ready to come
out now, yeah? Did you say Swivers was like all
the way back at the same time as Fever Swamp and it's just been
kind of hanging around since? Then it's only a couple of years
younger, so I think it's like 5 or six years now cuz technically
I wrote the first stuff for Swathers before Blades in the
Dark came out, which is a thing when everyone's like oh, it's
just us all Blades in the dark. So actually actually it's like a
couple of months older. So it was would have been about
2018, 20/17/2018. So it's all sort of similar time
period. So yeah, it's been a long time
coming. I mean it started off very
differently. It sort of grew as these things
do. Significant.
Yeah I I feel like, I mean I've read, I've read the the quick
start and and the mock up of stuff for Swivers and aside from
like thieves in a city like there's really no correlation
between that and Blades. I mean, my opinion on blades is
exists on the Internet, so I don't need to rehash it, but I
feel like it's quite it's quite different.
I totally had a joke loaded up for this where I was like, so
this is y'all's blades in the dark, right?
Yeah I know I'm a I'm not a huge had a blade so oh.
Really. Yeah, go figure each.
Each they're actually. I've actually played a little
blade tonight. I had fun and I didn't think I
would. So how dare you?
Let's say yeah, friendship cancelled.
There you go. That's.
Great, but so really good, David.
Good game master. That's what it you know.
I think a lot of it comes down to it's my favorite.
Gosh. OK so the only tangent I go into
a Blades is that any video I've watched of like the creator
playing Blades doesn't play Blades raw.
So like, I don't understand. But anyway so David, one of the
things you said because you do the covers for the OSC box sets
and I also think I have some of your art on a T-shirt.
The books in the box. The books in the box.
The box sets have the legendary heir Lotus and then Peter Mullen
on the on the front and you said you were the Inners chatting
with like Era Lotus and Peter Mullen in that process.
Like how how was it to work? Kind of like in a group where
you are working with a legend, you know.
Well I wasn't working directly with them.
I was just working with Gavin. But just to know that like you
know like the guy who painted my magenta like basic box, you
know, like I've got work in there with them.
I've been on calls with them and met, met him and chatted with
him a few times. Super sweet guy.
Never met Peter Mullen, never talked to Peter Mullen.
But I'm a huge fan, one of my favorite DCC artists.
I kind of consider him like one of the main DCC artists.
I'm a big fan of both of them. So to get get the work in there
with those people was with Super Killer.
Yeah, that's awesome. Those covers are.
Really, very good too. I do like that they stand out
from the box itself, but now I'm a huge fan of the style of those
covers. Thank you.
Yeah, I thought they were a lot of fun to do.
Gavin was very cool on, but kind of just letting me do, like
letting me do what I would do and giving me the time to do it.
I'm like notoriously slow. So, like at working because I'm
very, I get very meticulous, very like focused in on things.
So like let like Gavin give me the freedom to do a monster book
with not a, like, you know, the monster book has like that
wounded Griffin on the front with like the elf kind of
tending to it. It's like I would just wanted to
do something a little different. So letting me do that instead
of, you know, a big, you know, like orc or umber Hulk or
beholder rip off or whatever, and like a bunch of guys
stabbing it, like that's always fun.
But letting letting me do something a little more
whimsical was was really neat. That was a that was a fun
project and it the black light poster turned out great.
I don't know if you guys got a black light poster, but Oh yeah,
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, headlight up there did a killer job.
Super easy to work with. So if you're ever in the need of
any kind of screen printing, I highly recommend Paul up there
at the headlight. I think they're out of New York,
like upstate New York. But yeah, yeah, that was great.
And you you you said or or Luke said that you guys got linked up
to Jerry Crater around. That's the death fantasy.
But what was the impetus for Black Knights?
Because I remember following like your Instagram and stuff at
the time and the art style you were doing with this.
And then when this scene dropped, I was like, this is
such a a perfect pairing between, you know, Luke's
writing and your art. So what what what made this
happen? That was just like I every now
and again and I'm reaching that point now where where I've been
doing something like the same way, the same style, like I need
like a decompress like project. And that's kind of what that
was. It was just me like making blobs
and erasing out like shapes. And then you know, I also wanted
to turn it into something. So I originally kind of sent it
out to a bunch of people like to create to write up like stats
for these things like back stories for each night.
And Luke was the only one that sent me one back.
And then I just got sick of waiting and I was like, well, if
Luke wants to do it all like. And Luke is one of my like, Luke
you're my favorite. I'll just say it like you're my
you're my favorite, you're my favorite author.
Like getting to work on Swivers and reading Swivers like Swivers
is a book that's not a chore to read.
When rule books are kind of like, you know, you kind of have
to slog through it. Like, even the equipment section
stuff is fun. So I knew Luke was going to do a
great job with all and make them weird as shit, like all those
nights. Like there's, you know, the
prize fighter, the guy who gets melted down and put into the
orb. Like that guy rules you.
Know the. Feasting night is really cool.
They're all really, really, really unique and interesting,
so. So I feel like that's the best
segue we possibly could have been given to talk about
slivers. You got you, you both have a
project right now that's funding on Kickstarter called Harpers.
Could you tell us a little bit about it?
Yeah, you do crimes. That's like the big headline.
Like. Blades, like we talked about.
Yeah, it's. Like blades, you do crimes
except you plan them. No, wait.
I thought planning was all you do in blades.
That's that's the opposite, yeah.
It's just reacting. It's like.
Yeah, so the big thing with swipers is like Super Rules
light. Like it started as BX and it's
kind of becomes own thing. But the the like for me, the big
thing is it gives you a shit load of tools to generate your
city. Because it's kind of one of
those things that you kind of waver back and forth on where
it's like, well, do you give somebody one specific thing that
they can just use and it's ready to go or do you give them the
tools to make it themselves? And I think with a lot of stuff,
I will tend to go more one way and more say like here's the
specific thing. But with like a city, I think
because you're going to be needing to improvise and riff a
lot, you can't give everyone the whole thing.
So it's well, if they come up with them themselves, then
they'll be able to improvise a lot easier.
So yeah, like for me the big killer thing is like just a shit
load of tables and ideas to just throw into your own specific
version of the smoke, which is named the city.
Kind of like a very anachronistic mix of like this
in Victoriana. There's like a lot of
medievalism stuff in there. So the kind of time, time
periods, a little ambivalent. It's kind of where you want to
put it. And everyone loves the the
blackjack magic, which is very fun.
Yeah. So I was is is a, it's a it's
not actually ended up that big. It's a lot smaller than I
thought it was gonna be. I think it's like 100 odd pages.
I think is what we're looking at at the moment.
But yeah, it's very good fun. Yeah, really proud of it.
I think it's like we. We love.
When books aren't that big, I think.
Page number or less. Let me tell you what, if you put
out a 300 page book, it's yours, so I'll buy it.
But like, it's gonna take me a long time to get through it, you
know? But yeah, so it's one of the
things you said mechanically, it's incredibly rules light.
I think if you really look at like the the core kind of rules
like character creation outside of like the actual classes or
like styles plus the three and and the rules in combat, it fits
across like one, maybe 2 pages. So so much of it is the tables
where obviously like your ability to add flavor is insane
across all of them. But what was, I know you said
you had been kind of an idea since Fever Swamp, but what was
the impetus for using like that to making it like quote UN quote
rules light or like kind of like a very lightweight system and
the system that you chose to? Use So weirdly, it all started
without stars without number, which is the travel of the BX
thing. But is it Jeremy Crawford?
Yeah, I think so. That he does.
And I was. I was running that for a while.
I was like, I doesn't feel right that you get more HP because
it's sci-fi. And I was like, why is it right
to get HP in any game? And that kind of started me down
the long path of like, OK, I'll take BX and I'll just keep
removing things until I'm happy, which is a thing I've since done
again with wolves and all that. But so yeah, so I was like, OK,
first of all, like we'll remove like gaining more hit dice like
you, just your hit points only go up very, very slowly.
There's all, I don't need half these stats.
We'll just cut them out. So originally there was no
intelligence, no wisdom. So it's like I was like no
intelligence, no charisma. So it's like, well, we can just
role play out. We'll just talk it through
because that's more fun. It's how I like to run a game.
We'll just talk it out, use the dice if you have to.
Then I was like, I wouldn't need Wisdom either because it's kind
of just ending up as a catch off all mental stats.
So it's just this process of like gradually boiling it down
to you just get the the, the core residue of what you need.
It's it's how I've always run games.
It's like rules are fine, but then there is a backup.
If we can just discuss it like adults and kind of get to the
the result that's kind of mutually satisfied to do that,
that's way more interesting, gets people more engaged in the
pretending the fictional world exists.
Otherwise, yeah, like it's like, oh, but I have like a very
specific memory of like somebody's partner was joining
us for a game. Oh, I want my, like pet wolf to
jump up and push someone over. I was like, Oh well, you should
make the wolf attack because it's a free trip attack.
Afterwards, it's like, who fucking cares what the rules
say? Just let the dog trip someone
over. It's fine.
So I started with 3.5 for the most part.
So I think I like, radicalized me against all crunchy games,
basically. It's just like 1 long reaction
to that. So yeah, it's just the way I
like to run games. Like less rules, more fun,
basically. But it couldn't be more right
there with you on that. The lighter the better.
Just get out of the way. Let me do the things I wanna do.
And how did I know? This is again the 3rd project
that you guys have worked on with this.
But at what point were you like, all right David's the guy that's
gonna do the art for this cuz art style is insane.
Like it brings everything, all the writing like perfectly to
life. And I imagine in my head like
there is no way I couldn't imagine like the character art
that that, you know David has done in this.
So like what what was what? What got you guys back together
on this one? Trying.
To remember how you let me apart from serendipity because it is
perfect. I don't remember how.
Correct. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I
think Russ Nicholson decided not to do it.
There was like, I think it was also on like Dan sells pole was
gonna lie, I'm not sure if it's like the right move for us
because that was potentially happening at one point, but I
definitely think we ended up with the better choice there.
I mean, Russ Nicholson is a huge, huge choose to fill, so I
don't mind being a runner up for that.
But yeah, no, I think it just ended up work.
Like, I just really liked the the original set of rules that
Luke had put out, like the original book.
Like, I'm a huge, I like Warhammer Fantasy role-playing,
the style of it. The aesthetic of it, I guess,
which is kind of medieval with Victorian trappings, is kind of
the way I've always seen it. Like, you know, the lowers,
they're down in the dirt in the uppers.
Even though it's medieval, you can still have guys with like
pancake makeup and big. Goofy, like wigs and stuff and
it just works. It makes sense.
So I always like that. I loved Luke had a piece of art
for the original set of rules. That was, was it Gustav?
Dori, The death, Death of Savoy? Or.
I forget the name of the piece, but it's just this dude getting
like filled with arrows and this other guy coming through and
stabbing him, like coming through a window up above him
and stabbing him with a spear, just like this, this guy just
getting lit up. So I actually did.
I just finished a recreation like of that original piece
because I loved it so much as one of the full pagers in
swipers. So it's got like a little homage
to that to that old. I think they, I think they're
all Ed chains cool pieces. So that kind of like set the
tone and like I I like that it was human centric with like rat
men. I'm a big Lenkmar guy too.
Like I love Fritz Lieber and all that.
So it was very like it kind of just hit on all these all these
things. I hate drawing buildings.
So that's been a thing but you know you got to I mean they look
great you know, thank you. They they take way too long.
Everything takes way too long with me like especially with
this one because like I'm I I originally the first pieces I
did I was like I was also looking at like a lot of Barry
Windsor Smith recently past few years and and just I wanted to
not use Gray. I wanted to just make a bunch of
lines to like Gray Gray like those.
Like I was looking at like a lot of etchings as well and it it
ended up, you know, if you can't just do a Gray wash, you have to
do it all in lines and you can't just do straight lines.
So like a lot of the times you can't just do straight lines.
Some people can pull it off, but like, you know, you kind of have
to do contour lines. So it's just like a lot of
lines. Every piece has so many lines.
And I'm really kicking myself for that because I'm already
slow and it slowed me down considerably.
So it's I've been doing art for this project on and off for like
2 years or something at this point.
I think visually though, I mean, the 11 of the pieces that really
stood out to me is in the quick start on page like 7:00 or
8:00-ish, where it's the guy like pinching his nose and
throwing a coin to the other guy and the other guy's got a dagger
behind his back. I wish.
He's by itself a really great piece.
But the background has this like like almost like the etching
style, like lines all across. I was like, man, I know that
took a minute. It looks great.
I mean, I I love the way visually it comes across, but.
Yeah, I don't know if the one that everyone has seen has, like
there's one with a person like running and jumping across
rooftops like and there's like a bigger building in the
background and stuff. That one was really tough and
then there's another one. There's another really good
building in the the estate for the adventure, which I don't
think any, I don't think anybody's seen that yet.
But the adventures got a really great, like throw you in the
middle of a situation, like you're trying to rob a place and
you get put in the middle of like a situation in the place
you're trying to rob. But there's like a good drawing
of the estate where I went in. I just like every blade of grass
and every leaf. I really got in there and that
one turned out really good. But that's also another one that
like when you see it, it's going to probably be this big on a
page, but it has like 800 hours worth of work.
Or something stupid. But you know, I mean that's, I
mean stuff like that though, that's the reason that you're in
a box set with like Air Lotus and Peter Mullen, you know what
I mean? Because like the guys that you
look up to, I'm sure there's people out there right now
they're like, fuck, like David Hoskins.
Like they see your work as the same as theirs, you know, and
it's it's so it's so crazy good, like everything that's in the
quick start and and plus your work otherwise.
But like the attention to detail is so evident.
But there's also especially in swivers and I don't know like
maybe I'm just you know pulling stuff out of my ass here.
But there's this like, I don't know like underlying like
Malevolence to like everybody's features like across the entire
thing where it's just like that's intentional.
Yeah. It's everybody is a piece of
shit, right. Like, yeah, people down here are
piece of shit and the people that are up top or they got
there because they're pieces of shit.
So like that's just sort of the setting you know like and it's
but it's all, it's all funny too because it like, it's same with
Warhammer fantasy, right. Like the classic stuff, like
when you read 1st and 2nd edition, like in particular,
like it's all very like sarcastically like shitty, like.
It's mod blood and shit, man. Yeah, yeah.
And so it's not, it's not, it's not grim and shitty.
You know it's it's it's fun and shitty.
I guess it's a good way to put it.
Yeah. I mean, again, it it comes
through so evidently in the art and in the attention to detail,
it's even the piece. So there's a piece I don't you
probably didn't say it but above you it's like the the piece
that's basically the header for the Kickstarter page and just
zooming in on that not even needed to zoom in.
But like they the time the attention to detail the lines
everything on that is it's insane.
And the fact that there's gonna be 100 pages that's like all
filled with like just your art because I I'm I love when
there's like a bunch of artists in book, but like it's like all
the art, it is yours. It's every single page.
I'm guaranteeing it right now. No.
But just the fact that it's like just you odd throughout the
entire book, like and this consistency to style and the
attention to detail and all of it like this is and the cover is
absolutely stunning. I mean, again, he's like being
able to read this what again Luke's incredible writing and
then have your work just be so perfect for it Like this book
without even having it in hand yet is already like one of my
favorite. It's like it's, it's absolutely
fantastic. And again, the attention to the
flavor, the art, the writing like everything is, is, is
stunning. Thank you.
Yeah, I mean it, it's easy when you got like when you've got
such good source material like it, it really, you know, like I
said before like even the equipment section has like
somebody giving like a like commentary on the on the piece
of equipment like what it's good for.
You know like a crowbar, you know it's like get you out of
the pinch. Hey, like, I don't know.
Luke can, Luke can can do some some of that.
Probably a bit better. Than I think, 'cause it was
like, it was like written with my mate Dan, sort of.
It was like just for me, like a lot, a lot of the, the starting
places like, oh, well, that's kind of funny.
Like in a lot of the work I do like, oh, that's funny from like
a perspective to think like because it was working like with
my mate, it was like we went more into that like, oh, it's,
it's funny. Like it's just kind of meant to
be funny, Which is why everything has that kind of
sense of tone and that kind of sense of like, oh, this is a
person talking to you. And then like you said before,
like, 'cause robots could be so fucking boring.
And I was like, well, what if one was fun?
Like, let's try that, which I hopefully works.
I mean, it makes me laugh like. The the Howbrid, right.
Like that's I think, I think that that's a Swiss weapon or
something like that. Yeah.
And so like in the description for the howbrid, it's like this
is really great, but it's from the continent.
So like I don't know. I don't know if I can be seen
with that. It's from the those, those,
those people from the continent brought it over.
Yeah, look, it's definitely. That funny cynicism.
Yeah. Look, it's definitely poking a
lot of fun at like a lot of the examined and unexamined like
biases and like British culture. Like there's a lot of like use
of the term like foreigner, which is like something like
spat when someone's oh, they're foreign foreigner and it's like
it's fucking ridiculous. Like grow up.
So like it's kind of is very much the like where you elevate
it to the point where like you can only see the fact that it's
ridiculous and it becomes funny despite like originating in that
kind of horrid thing. Just because there's so much
like British nationalism around, like the history stuff, and it's
kind of just like, it's the same as anywhere else, like a bunch
of, like, rich kings and shit getting people to kill each
other. A bunch of really rich, terrible
people in charge making people do terrible things around them,
Yeah. Yeah.
Like, it's not, we're not special.
Like, it's the same as everywhere else.
We do it a bit longer than some places.
So, like, a lot of it's kind of, yeah, trying to deconstruct some
of that and like, kind of, yeah, turn it into like kind of a
farce, like a parody. Like some of the shit was like,
oh, what's the war? And it's like, oh, it's like
it's this Scottish rebellion or like, oh, it's Napoleon, like a
couple of 100 years early or whatever.
Like it's all meant to be kind of riffs on that, which is like
fun, I think anyway, enjoyable. Yeah.
I mean, there's a distinct like Britishness to this, obviously.
And I can only assume it's because that's where you're
from. But was like, I know there's
like you said there's like a mix kind of of like the time period.
Was that always the idea to have it be this kind of anachronisms
like throughout it with like this kind of general sense of of
the past ishness in it. But like what?
Or has that kind of evolved as you were writing with with Dan
and and and getting the art and stuff?
So originally it was meant to be more like strictly medieval,
Just cause I I hate steampunk, It makes me lose my shit.
So I was like, I don't want it to be steampunk.
That's that's rule one. No, steampunk.
And then it is kind of, as I was doing more more research, I
thought, well, yeah, but you know, you want to have coppers
in there. It's a crime game.
So you kind of have to have coppers.
And I thought, well, OK, they're like they're super late as an
innovation, like, you know, police won't invent it till 18
something. So it's like, OK, we'll bring
those back. And then it's kind of like,
well, we kind of want to have more of a kind of like not quite
landed aristocracy but like nobility.
So I kind of bring some stuff back and it's kind of as from
looking established base of like, oh, it's medieval And then
like kind of just taking more and more, bringing it, bringing
it backwards. But being deliberate about the
elements that trying to bring back like kind of, even if it's
not in the text like somewhere I've acknowledged at least to
myself it's like, OK, that's that's super anachronistic.
That's like not at all of the time, but like it makes it more
entertaining. So I'm not too fussed.
Like it's kind of meant to be, yeah, like a mess.
And it's kind of, there's a mix of a lot of different time
periods and places in there which I think kind of adds to it
hopefully. Yeah, it gives it some this
across time feel. So I can definitely see this is
definitely that looked upsetting where it's bunch of guys with
cogs glued to their hats and stuff, you know?
There's firearms or anything in the rule book.
So like you know it's but you could easily like insert it in
and play it in modern day or earlier or I mean they said
there's someone in the Kickstarter comments that were
like hey if you were did you read that Luke where they're
like if you're wondering that the side if the Cyborg like Job
like Builder works on this game the answer is yes there's
something. That's cool as fuck I didn't
see. That so somebody, so somebody's
already like looking at like the the job, like the job creator
thing. That's like a process in Cyborg.
That's so funny. Yeah.
Are you are you have you got yet or do you expect to get those
feel that's like, well actually like this wouldn't exist in this
time period like kind of thing or is it just gonna be like it's
fun? Fuck, like what it like?
Yeah. You know, do you have potatoes
in your games? If so, shut the fuck up.
Like you know people, they'll pick and choose the things to
be. I don't know.
That's not not very settingable. Shut up.
Who cares? Like, if you wanna, if you wanna
run something that's like super on point historically, go for
it. Have fun, but don't complain to
someone else's. You know, like, I look forward
to your Bronze Age authentic role-playing game.
But until it comes out, I'll wait.
I did see some guy saying that, like the art didn't look 1860s
or whatever. And I was like, yeah, OK.
'Cause I made it at the 20 Twenties, pal, It's 2020.
It's like. And it's.
Yeah. And it's not real 1860s.
It's like weird fantasy London medieval sort of like, yeah.
Yeah, why isn't this book hand printed in Latin?
You know, really being time period.
Correct. Why can't any of us read it and
not just the landed nobility, you know?
Yeah, I think they were talking about like the clothing and
like, yeah, but you know, like the whatever.
Well, listen, at least we know you ruined one person's
immersion, You know what I mean? Like, there we go.
That's perfect. So pull like things from
different you know, like I was looking at medieval costuming
and Victorian costuming and French and British or whatever,
like old medieval English stuff and just kind of picking and
choosing elements that I liked from all that and like making
the. Like that's an interesting
setting though, like that's AI mean I I think the the luxury of
what we all take part in in this is that we don't have to stay
very honest or truthful to any time period.
We can do whatever works for whatever we're doing well.
I mean, if the writing is anachronistic, like there's no
reason the art wouldn't be anachronistic.
It makes it like it. It pairs correctly, like if the
writing was like had all these anachronistic bits, but then you
did like every piece of art, like exactly specifically to
like one time period that would be in and of itself like a a, a
much deeper, an anachronism that would make it not make sense.
But the fact that like, it all fits because it's all kind of
like a mix is exactly why it all fits.
So and it's like it's like finding a a balance like if you
sort of anchor yourself into a certain time period, they're
gonna be like aesthetic choices that look cool and things that
just don't look cool. And then you want to you know,
like I I don't really like a lot of like Magic the Gathering or
like modern day like art. Like especially when you see
like armor and stuff like that like it, it just doesn't look
right. It looks too like, like it looks
too crazy. I don't know, like, because
that's kind of a weird thing to say because I do like crazy ass
armor. Like, I don't know, it looks
too. Her like her.
I think it's ornamental rather than crazy.
Yeah. Or like pieces that just don't
look right, or. They don't non functioning,
yeah. So it's kind of, it's kind of
like trying to find that balance of making things look functional
but like stylish and fun. That something that I try to do
like in a lot of my, I think a lot of my stuff.
Yeah, totally makes sense. So forward-looking for swivers.
Key share is going right now. Y'all are at.
I just clicked away but I think like 77,000 and I looked at.
USD 61,000 lbs? Yeah.
On that We're at not enough and we need everybody to buy more.
Yeah, everyone get on this right now.
We're scared they're not going to make honestly right.
But like. Looking past like the release of
swivers like, is this a system that you guys see yourself
supporting with like more content in the future?
Definitely any any hints or any ideas you have about that?
So we're doing a thing where like if you're back in the first
48 hours, sorry everyone hasn't backed already.
But yeah, it's a chance we're going to put out like a little
free one immediately. A little follow up adventure
just to not even follow up. Just like here's like a place
and a bunch of shit and you can do all kinds of stuff with this.
And here's some ideas for that. Just as a little thank you for
jumping on it straight away apart from that.
So the big one is we're going to release it under a license the
same as Troika. It's like as long as you don't
pretend that we're best mates or something do whatever you want,
you know just make sure for swipers, please make stuff.
But beyond that I definitely we've we've we've not talked
about too much because Dan Cherry are very busy running the
Kickstarter. But there will definitely be
follow up stuff because one thing like I've always talked
about very publicly is like, don't just release, don't just
turn out systems like support them.
And like Swipers is something that's very Arsenal to me is
like the first big system I wrote and it's kind of the first
bigger project they ever did. So it's like I wanna make sure I
support it. And there's so much shit in that
book that could be expanded out. Like I've had a few people say,
oh is there gonna be more stuff about the rat men?
Cuz people really like the rat men.
So me and Dan have been talking cuz he's running another Swivers
campaign soon. So he's like oh like you know, I
can start working on a bunch of extra shit about rat men.
Then because there's the permissiveness of the setting in
all of these. You can get away with quite a
lot of stuff. Like if you want to get really
hardcore weird, go down into the underground like the midden and
all that. If you want to do something a
bit more grounded you can just do like, oh here's three crime
bosses, crime bosses, they all hate each other, here's the
districts done. Even though, like, you could
take the book and run the start adventure and just run a
campaign based on that for like years, probably we still want to
be supporting it with like his more stuff about rivers, his
stuff about going into the countryside.
Here's just a bunch of places to rob, possibly looking at doing a
prison. We'll see.
It's like a follow up that might be fun because if you get
caught, you get sent to prison rather than just get executed
and then you can try and break out of prison.
That's always good fun. Well, we all love a prison
break. It's good times, yeah.
And over the last year, we've had a lot when we talk to
people, a lot more people are kind of shifting into that
mindset of if I make something and I love it, like the creator
speaking for them, that they want to do more with that system
as opposed to just churning out more and more systems.
And that's. I mean that first of all as you
make more stuff, people will go back and buy the core book.
Like that's kind of the thing and you really make your money
on on, you know the second and third print.
We all know that we've heard this before.
But also it's just fun to have more stuff from the people that
you love when they make stuff that you love.
So like it's it's it's nice to be able to get that support.
So you said for the first 48 they got an adventure, but other
than those people with 9 days left, when people go back
swipers on Kickstarter, we'll make sure the links are below.
What what can they actually get like from the Kickstarter?
From the tiers. You can get digital copy,
physical copy you can get. I believe it's a shilling
because the decision that nobody pushed back against everyone
should have done it uses British old money, so rather than like a
sensible decimal system. We're using the old # shilling
and pence, so it's like 12. No, let me get this right, it's
20 shillings to the no. Yeah, 12 shillings to the pound,
20 pence to the shilling. Because it's awful, it sucks.
And it's really funny that we use this for hundreds of years
as a an actual monetary system. So you can.
Get we all have to do. It.
Yeah, now everyone else has to. That's very it's very British.
You know we're exporting our awfulness so you get shilling,
you can get AT shirt, which has, which has David's Gray art on it
and says swipers. And there's the very the kind of
one off print of the fancy edition with like gold foil and
buckram is what it's called the the paper they're using on the
cover. So it will be sick as fuck,
hopefully. I'm sure it will be no ribbons
though. We didn't make a Millie, so Dan
Cell's not putting a ribbon in it.
Oh man, good. Gotta gotta put a ribbon.
Yeah, Ribbons is so fucking funny, man.
He why? Why does he hate ribbons?
Is it just like a a production thing, or is it just like he,
generally on his own, hates ribbons?
I think it's because a lot of people put them as like a
stretch goal and like the cheapest fuck to add to the
book. Like they raise the production
value but like the production cost by like pennies on the on
the pound or something like that.
So it's like why is this stretch goal?
It's nothing. The ribbon costs always nothing.
So it's like AI think it's a joke for him to set the ribbon
as the highest possible tier. I mean, I I love the joke, but I
would also love ribbons. So let's.
Add it myself, Glue gun I. Mean you you, they just glue the
thing in and then you just have one.
So that's nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Scrap paper, man. Use.
Use an old receipt. Just shove it in there.
Oh, that's open corners. I'm an animal.
Yeah. Oh my God, yeah.
I can't. I can't.
I I have this whole this whole, like, crusade I'm on right now
to teach people how to break in their paperback books so that
they don't increase the bindings.
I can't. Just draw on it.
Just, you know, it's like, oh, I've highlighted it, but drawing
on it and I've got some book dots and shit in there, that's
great. So I'm definitely the person
where like if I buy like there's books out there where they're
like right in the book because this is like an object.
When you're done I buy 2 so that I don't have to write one.
I so here's how bad I am. I bought 2 about Mouse order box
sets so that I could not punch out the the little, the little
tokens in one of them and actually play with another one.
That's how I'm not kidding. Like I have two.
I have two of them box sets just so I don't have to punch one
out. I used to do stuff like that
because I was like this might be worth something because I come
from like a like a comic book collect and record collecting
like sort of compulsion. And then I had to move and I've
got all this stuff and I was like, all right, like, so now I
got to sell this stuff because I don't want to move it.
And I'm like, I can't be bothered to sell this.
Like, I can't be bothered to, like end up giving like a ton of
shit away, which is always cool. Like people get free stuff and
they get cool stuff. But I'm like, I didn't need that
second copy of whatever that I was saving because I just ended
up, like getting rid of it anyway.
Like just I can't be bothered to eat going to the, going to the
post, going to the post office. Like, who wants to do that?
I don't want to mail you anything.
Like just don't just stop. I mean I guess it's I'll I'll if
I ever have to say something me and Luke do just don't buy extra
copies. But yeah, yeah, if I could.
Yeah, if I could stop myself. Trust me I would my paycheck
would love it like the 8 bookshelves I have would love
it. It would be great.
But but I can't. So if if people make stuff and
it has a ribbon and a special edition, I'm usually, you know,
up there in the top 10 backers. So for for for both of you.
I know we already asked about Swivers, obviously going to
create more stuff for that but are either of you currently
working on? Like what's the next thing for
for Luke Gearing and David Hoskins coming after after this
campaign? I can't see how swivers at the
moment, so it's going to be all, Luke.
Reasonable. Yeah.
So I don't know because in January, 1st of January I quit
my day job. So now I work for Tuesday night
full time. So Congrats, don't think I'm
allowed. Thank you.
But I don't think I'm allowed to say anything about what I'm
doing there. The big one is hopefully Wolves
box set later this year. I'm just leaning in my what?
Well, I'm gonna try and keep it below 3 digits for the price.
We'll see how that goes, but. Thank you.
Doing it, Yeah, I'm trying. I don't know if I'll succeed.
I'm trying. So I'm buying up the art piece
by piece, taking it nice and slow, making sure that it's all
there. So we're looking at one piece of
art for each one of the kind of PDFs.
Has its own art, Big art on the front of the box.
I'm gonna print it all locally because why do things the easy
way when I can do it the hardest, most expensive way for
every single choice. So hopefully we'll be doing the
pre-order for that at the towards end of this year is the
hope. Stoked.
This is my current copy of. Wolves.
Yeah, Hell yeah. Look at that binder.
Yep. And we got Binder and
everything, man. So many hexes.
Yeah. Well, I mean basically created
an entire new crowdfunding style with Wolves upon the coast.
There's literally like AI don't want to call it what see but
like style of crowdfunding on it with like the I know slow
funding existed, but this kind of like slow funding but like
increase the cost as like the content increases thing.
I know that Christian Sorrell Meek House on the chat.
I know that they're doing that with AM and then some other ones
are doing that as well. It's cool.
Yeah, so cool. Yeah, I'm really happy to see
people doing it. Like, I think because like
Kickstart leader, don't remember K Star is great.
But also like, you're not building anything for yourself,
You're kind of just building stuff for Kickstarter at the
same time. But like, I get it, you know,
you got to put money, you got to get the money, you get paid.
But yeah, it's cool, really cool to see more people doing it
because I think it is, the more people do it, the more effective
it becomes. The more people follow through,
deliver on everything, the more people will be like, oh cool
yeah, I'll give it a go. Like the only big thing is just
set your price at a reason, like I set it way too low, $5 is way
too low to start and I should have smaller increments as a
result. But I think it's cool.
Model look, I'm really glad to see people following it because
I was worried that it's like maybe this just works for me.
I don't want someone else to follow it and then be like,
fuck, I've made like £2.50 so I'm glad that other people tried
it and it's worked for them. So I think it's it's got legs.
It's good to see. Yeah, I mean especially for
people that you know, don't want to deal with Kickstarter or want
the like that work slow and are able to like put stuff out at
their time, at their pace, fund it as they go, stop when they
want to continue when they don't and and then get to it.
Yeah, so, so wizard, Wizard, fuck me, Wolves upon the Coast,
Swivers, fever swim, all that stuff.
Like where can people find first Luke?
Like where, where, if, when people go out and find all the
stuff from Luke Gearing, where's the best place they can look for
all that stuff? So if you go loop gearing dot
block dot I am, there's like a published works thing at the top
which I think is really up to date and that's got links to
where you can buy all the ship. Those places if you are also
cursed. I'm still on Twitter for now.
We'll see how long that lasts. Those are the big two.
Try to think if there's anything at that.
Yeah, there's the big two. There's a mailing list, but I'm
changing providers so converting it a little bit.
Yeah cuz fucking time that it's closing cuz male chimp folks.
So we'll see how the new one goes, and if not, I'll be
bouncing around for a while so I wouldn't say where yet.
Case of shit. And and David, same thing, where
can people find, find your art, find you and and and more of
that. You can find me online at just
basically at David Hoskins on those things, but I don't, I
find it very tiring. So I don't, I don't do much and
I don't engage much on social media.
But David Hoskins, art@gmail.com, if you want to
like get in touch with me about anything in particular, that's
about it. Like, yeah, I, I post art on
Instagram and yeah, that's about it.
Yeah, I'm pretty much like just booked up with Swivers and then
day job stuff with with Exalted. So that's it.
There you go. Hey, listen, seriously, thank
you guys so much for coming on the show.
Swiber's is fantastic. Again, as we sit at the top, you
are two of our favorite people in the fields that you're in
like from art and writing. You just absolutely incredible.
Thank you guys so much. No, thank you, man.
Thank you for having us on. Really, really glad we could
work. Yeah, really, really appreciate
it. Obviously, if you guys ever do
anything in the future or ever want to talk again, please just
shoot me an e-mail, our message and we will have you back on in
a heartbeat. We'll make time and we'll figure
it out. But seriously, it's it's the
half the reason we do the podcast and actually talk to
people is to get the opportunity to talk to people like you guys.
So again, thank you so much. That's.
All again, thank you. Very much.
I don't get out and do anything anymore.
So it's always good to talk to people, talk to people, talk to
people that I want to talk to as well.
It's it's super nice. Like I need to.
I need to do more things. I guess it's like convention
season's coming up. So like I I will be at Gary Con.
If anyone's going to be at Gary Con, I'll be there.
So there you go. There you go.
All right. So everyone, please go back.
Swivers. We will make sure all the links
to all of that are anywhere that you are watching or listening to
this. There is 9 days left.
I'll make sure this gets out tomorrow.
So if you're listening, there will probably be 8 days left.
Go back and get us to 1,000,000. Let's get that ribbon from
Daniel and we'll get it sorted. But that is gonna be us for
today. Thank you all so much for
listening. And we'll see you all later.
Bye. Bye.
Cheers. All.