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Hello and welcome to the Weekly 
Scroll podcast. 

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My Name Is Ryan. 
And I am a necromancer of the 

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Valorean Ascendancy. 
Yes, you are. 

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And with us today, we have a 
very special guest. 

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Yes, it's been here before. 
Happy to have him back. 

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This is Alex of Black Oath 
Entertainment. 

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How you doing today, Alex? 
Hey, I'm doing great. 

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Very happy to be here again, 
yeah. 

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Big, big fan of your work and I 
know that you're a, you're a big

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fan of the show here, which we 
super appreciate. 

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So it's definitely what's funny 
is like we talk kind of a lot. 

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So it's weird that it's been 
this long since you've been back

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on the show. 
So again, yeah, it's it's great 

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to have you back. 
Yeah, I know it's. 

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I'm very excited. 
It's this this show is 

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fantastic. 
I always have a lot of fun, so 

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yeah. 
Thank you for saying that. 

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I think you've only put out 
like. 50 games I. 

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Think you've only put out like 
50 games a month since last time

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you've been here? 
That's what it feels like. 

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Is that Is that about it? 
Is that about right? 

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More or less, I guess. 
No. 

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Yeah, I just keep releasing 
stuff relentlessly. 

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I know, but but a couple of 
people have told me you are 

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releasing too many things too 
fast and it's just as hard to 

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keep up. 
That is just the muse. 

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The muse is what what they want.
They inspire me. 

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I mean, it's kind of true if 
you're already dropping another 

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game and I haven't even got the 
book from like the drive through

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RPG like POD yet that takes four
to six weeks to ship, then you 

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might be putting out stuff at A 
at a clip, but but you're you're

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full time now, right? 
Like which I mean I think a lot 

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of people were like, well he has
to be full, full time already 

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cuz he puts out, you know, like 
I gave a month but but you just 

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recently went full time, right? 
Yeah, basically this week I I 

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just said fuck it. 
This, this is it. 

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I'm going full time with this. 
I got fed up. 

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Congratulations. 
With this previous stuff, 

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thanks. 
Thanks. 

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It's it's been a long time 
coming and I kind of wanted to 

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do it for a while now. 
But yeah, it's taking me four 

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years to get to this point. 
So I I guess it's OK. 

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Yeah, I was basically just 
slacking a lot on my other job 

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anyway and focusing on this 
mostly. 

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So I was like, yeah, let's just 
make it official. 

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And so yeah, this is it. 
Nice, That's. 

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Cool. 
Very exciting. 

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Yeah. 
I wish, man, if I could do this 

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full time, I would be. 
I'd be very happy. 

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Alas, I cannot. 
So. 

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No, it's it's an absolute 
privilege to be able to to even 

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contemplate the possibility 
possibility of doing this full 

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time. 
Very grateful. 

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Yeah, so and then part of that 
too is your is your Patreon, 

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which also gets support for you 
as well and you send out more 

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updates than anyone, any Patreon
that I back. 

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And all of them are like a book 
and there's a book's worth of 

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stuff. 
Every time you put out an 

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update, it's like you're like, 
hey, here's some info on this 

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game and the next three games 
I'm working on at all times, so.

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Yeah, the patron is actually. 
It's the reason I would say why 

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I'm so productive because I 
really many times like, OK, I 

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have to put something out. 
I I know that if I didn't have 

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the, the let's call it pressure 
even though it's not really 

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pressure but the pressure of of 
Patreon and being forced to to 

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put something out every month, I
know I wouldn't be working at 

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this rate. 
Well, maybe now that I'm full 

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time yes, but before I don't 
think so I will be a little bit 

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more relaxed. 
But knowing that I have people 

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who are not only put in their 
faith but they're hard earned 

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cash on on me and they believe 
in in my work and the things I I

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do it really motivates me to to 
keep releasing stuff. 

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So yeah, I try to at the very 
least have, I don't know, some 

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small expansion. 
I don't know at least 20-30 

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pages of worth of content 
Monthly and in each 2-3 months 

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I'm I'm able to release a full 
games, which usually means over 

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200 pages because that's that's 
how I am. 

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That is a crazy amount of 
output. 

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You know, like. 
It's truly it's really nothing. 

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Compared to monsters like Alan 
Barr, it's just nothing. 

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It's that guy is just he makes 
what I do in two or three weeks.

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He does it daily. 
It's just monstrous. 

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It's just The thing is that he 
doesn't publish everything he he

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writes. 
But if if you knew how many 

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games he has unpublished, it 
must be in the hundreds 

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basically. 
And I'm not talking about 1-2 

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pages games. 
No, he makes 50 pages games 

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daily. 
It's just ridiculous. 

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So I'm I'm nothing. 
I'm a completely amateur 

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comparison. 
And then there's some people out

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there who haven't put anything 
on their Patreon in eight months

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and they're still charging. 
So you know we appreciate those 

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that that do. 
So very. 

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True. 
And people I that's just, I will

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feel horrible horrible even 
though I mean last month for 

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example that as you know I just 
put half a number of demonic of 

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the official sacrifice number 
which was 22 pages and and I was

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already feeling horrible. 
I was like this is shit this is 

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I dropped the ball this is not 
good because lately I've been 

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really pushing it hard with 
Patreon content. 

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So yeah it's it's really a a 
good motivation and on top of 

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that yeah once it's there a 
couple months later I can Polish

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it for everybody. 
So it's it's great, it's really 

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nice thing to have Patreon both 
for us motivation and and for 

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the support which helps a lot, 
helps pay the bills now. 

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Yeah well I mean it's yeah yeah 
you got it now for sure What now

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I'm trying to remember what were
we talking about last time you 

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were on was that was that when 
across the thousand dead world 

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was was even before that it. 
Was sacrifice. 

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That's. 
When it was sacrifice. 

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Damn, that's been a. 
Minute. 

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Yeah. 
Like a year and and something, I

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don't know, like 15 months at 
least. 

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Yeah, last time, yeah. 
Easy, yeah. 

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And you've put out. 
I mean, even just trying to 

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think of what you put out since 
then, it's like, at least like 

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what? 
Like five or six games since 

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then, right? 
Well, maybe not that many. 

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I mean, let's see after 
sacrifice it was Broken shores. 

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Well, originally what's called 
got Shard, but I had to change 

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it as you as I guess you know. 
But yeah, Broken Shores and it 

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was wrist Breakers then it was 
this small little funny thing 

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that I made. 
It's just small game. 

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How is it called? 
Blood Moon Apocalypse which is 

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my little zombie survival. 
Just a mini game. 

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It's not really arrow in RPG 
even. 

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And then I suppose you can count
across across 1000 Dead World 

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which is now officially released
and available even though we are

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still finalizing the OR actually
have to start with the US and 

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Canada and and well in Latin 
America fulfillment and then 

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it's actually yeah it's going to
be great once it's everybody 

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gets their book yeah world 
rulers ascendant and and then 

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they under ash and skies and now
turn to fellas so yeah I don't 

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know. 
Yeah, a few things. 

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That's seven. 
That's seven games. 

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Yeah, in between there's been a 
couple of expansions and other 

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things too. 
For yeah, for sacrifice. 

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For broken Shoe. 
Steamer born, Yeah. 

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Like the. 
Yeah. 

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So I mean, yeah, 7 plus, yeah, 
you're like not quite five or 

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six actually more but but I mean
jumping real quick to across the

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thousand net worlds, I'm excited
for this Hunter study scatter 

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for it and one of the reasons is
because you you showed it to us 

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before the stream started. 
So do you have that that book 

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sitting right there with that? 
I have this is the the Murgo 

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edition which is the like our 
Deluxe edition which is limited 

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to Kickstarter. 
Even though I have a few like a 

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dozen copies left which I will 
sooner or later put for sale up 

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for sale. 
Once we know for sure everybody 

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got their their books and 
everybody's happy with them, 

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we'll have a few of these rare 
artifacts for sale. 

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So yeah it's a pretty neat 
edition. 

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It has well all editions come 
with the with the tokens tokens 

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and then they also come with 
with a bunch of maps which are 

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inside. 
Even though this edition comes 

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with more the normal edition 
comes with six. 

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This one comes with 12 of them 
and and this edition also comes 

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with this with the like a quick 
reference with all the all the 

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stuff and then that. 
Is that one? 

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Folder with with different 
character sheets and ships 

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sheets. 
I don't stuff to to help you 

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keep track of everything is. 
That one, The Mergo edition. 

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Yeah, this is the Mergo edition.
That's what I got. 

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OK, I'll just double check a 
second. 

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Can I get that one? 
Yeah, I did. 

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Cool. 
Yeah, and then the the book is 

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the same in both editions 
because it's just fucking 

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gorgeous. 
It's just absolutely incredible 

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Art with art by Will, which is, 
I don't know, it's just a 

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beautiful book. 
It it sucks that the original 

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designer walked us over and and 
and left the project hanging for

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a year, but even even though he 
made a absolutely gorgeous book,

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it's just ridiculous. 
It's absolutely beautiful. 

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So it sucks both on a personal 
level and professional level 

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that he didn't finish the the 
race with us and we have to 

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scramble in and grab Glenn seals
help, which is always saving my 

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ass for one reason or another. 
He's always there to help. 

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So yeah, he finalized it. 
He made it. 

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He really helped us out. 
He stopped everything to help us

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out with this and well, it's 
done finally. 

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So I'm very, very happy. 
Because the original estimate 

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delivery was. 
A year ago. 

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Yeah, it was about a year ago, 
right. 

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OK. 
Well, hey, you know, I mean, you

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did it so. 
Yeah, I know about it. 

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But it sucks because it was 
like, OK, the game is done, it's

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been to play, tested, everything
is done except layout. 

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How long do you need to finish 
the layout? 

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Three months. 
OK, let's say 6 to be safe. 

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And then I we added the extra 
time and still it was six months

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plus another year for him. 
So it was, yeah. 

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00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,760
A year and a half. 
Two years working on this one. 

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Yes. 
OK. 

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Was just one person that he's he
was supposed to be a 

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professional. 
He's was supposed to know what 

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he was doing. 
And then then life gets in the 

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way. 
He had a lot of personal 

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00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,040
problems. 
He and he disappear. 

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He just fucking disappear. 
Oh yeah. 

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And what I mean. 
But the book turned out great. 

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Book turns gorgeous, yeah. 
And, you know, hey, at least you

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got that like a lot of people, 
kind of, you know, a lot of 

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people would have given up in 
that situation. 

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They're like way to fight 
through. 

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00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,320
I mean, I. 
Still it wasn't It wasn't even 

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00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,840
in the a few things I I didn't 
even consider dropping it 

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because I it's just if I said 
I'm doing it, I'm doing it. 

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If it cost me many, many 
thousands more than I expected. 

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I had to put a lot of my own 
personal money into this because

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yeah, you see the the kickstart 
and it was like, Oh my God, so 

211
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much money and then prices start
to increase. 

212
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,640
We had to pay more people than 
we initially thought we will 

213
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,520
have to pay. 
I mean it's just the year of 

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00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:31,320
delay really screwed us over 
completely because it was when 

215
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,280
right when the paper prices were
was going up. 

216
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,480
Transport has the price of 
transport is just is nuts right 

217
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now. 
It has risen so much so, I mean 

218
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it was all just snowballing and 
it was like, OK, I'm going to 

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lose money as well. 
It has to come out one way or 

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00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:51,040
another. 
Well, you know, it's funny, not 

221
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,600
funny, but it's an interesting 
thing that popped in my head 

222
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,080
before because I had always had 
this question that I never asked

223
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,440
you. 
Just like because you put most 

224
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,880
of your stuff out on on print on
demand from, from drive through.

225
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,760
And I don't remember. 
I we, we talked about it after 

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00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:13,160
someone said something at some 
point about printing stuff and 

227
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:14,240
you're like, but it won't come 
to Europe. 

228
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:15,880
And I was like, wait, I don't 
understand why. 

229
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,080
And you were like and then it 
basically came out like because 

230
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,600
if you do print on demand, they 
have print on demand over there.

231
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,680
But if you print only in 
America, you have to ship across

232
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:25,720
the sea. 
And that in my head I instantly 

233
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,960
thought of you And I was like, 
oh, that's why Alex always puts 

234
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,240
his stuff on POD. 
It's much more accessible to the

235
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,120
rest of the world when you have 
POD. 

236
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,320
And then you don't have to worry
about transportation prices, you

237
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:37,800
don't have to worry about paper 
prices. 

238
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,760
So it just, I don't know, it's 
just an interesting thing that 

239
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,480
popped in my head where I was 
like, that makes so much sense 

240
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,920
for Europe and South American 
stuff because drive through has 

241
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,200
printing presses kind of like 
all over the world, right? 

242
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:52,760
Yeah, no, yeah. 
And then how things are are 

243
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,640
going with shipping just 
becoming demented. 

244
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,440
I mean it's just with between 
Brexit, between the European 

245
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,360
Union close and even more all 
the export import laws, the 

246
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,200
United States also fucking 
around. 

247
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,160
It's just it's becoming 
absolutely hostile to small 

248
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,640
publishers. 
So I was actually talking about 

249
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,200
this with the guys from against 
Dark Master, the the Italian 

250
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,200
guys which are also now in in 
the middle of fulfillment. 

251
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,840
And they're also saying that 
this is just for example they 

252
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,680
directly they don't sell. 
They are incapable of selling to

253
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,640
UK because the UK authorities 
they've been trying for two 

254
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,680
years to get some tax 
identification number and they 

255
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,560
can't get it. 
So they have that whole market 

256
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,720
that they cannot sell to. 
And it's just like that that's 

257
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,440
just a small example it's it's 
it's like that for everybody 

258
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,840
it's and and of course from a 
from a customer point of view 

259
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:52,320
it's absolutely nuts the amount 
of money that it costs to to in 

260
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,920
between tax import taxes that 
you have to pay between the 

261
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,360
shipping itself. 
I mean I used to a few years ago

262
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,280
I used to buy Zenes from United 
States all the time, all the 

263
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:06,160
time especially during Zenquest.
I mean it was just all the time 

264
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,840
and OK well you will pay the 
whatever the price of the of the

265
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,360
scene, maybe 10 bucks extra for 
the shipping and that's it. 

266
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:18,280
Now now between the shipping 
which is like at least 20 and 

267
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,880
then the customs which is just 
doesn't go below 1415 US extra. 

268
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,840
I end up paying for a scene 2-3 
times its original price. 

269
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,680
So it's like OK, I can't order 
from from the United States 

270
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,720
anymore and the the opposite 
happens of course people from 

271
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,520
the United States buying from 
from Europe is just nuts. 

272
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:41,240
So it's just becoming very, very
difficult and in print on demand

273
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,640
even though the quality is 
definitely, I don't think it 

274
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:49,080
will ever reach the the level of
of something like this. 

275
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,000
I mean, offset printing is just 
superior. 

276
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,280
This absolutely gorgeous. 
Really a lot better than it used

277
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,120
to be though, like those 
pronounsman books I get, I've 

278
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,280
gotten more recently from drive 
through. 

279
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,880
I'm like, oh, this is like, this
is pretty. 

280
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,240
Good. 
And Lulu is even better. 

281
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,240
But yeah, drive through RPG. 
They are getting their shit 

282
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,360
together and it's pretty good. 
The worst, at least in Europe. 

283
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,280
The worst is Amazon for sure. 
The quality of Amazon is like 

284
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,080
toilet paper. 
Terrible. 

285
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,480
Not shocked by that. 
And the and the cotting and 

286
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,120
everything. 
I mean, I you get books, It's 

287
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,400
like, seriously, just what the 
fuck did you do with the covers?

288
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,680
It's just cotton. 
I can show you some books. 

289
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,160
Like it's like, really. 
I mean the covers is like this 

290
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,880
and then the book inside is is 
what the fuck, What do we do 

291
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,440
with all this extra cover. 
So yeah it's it's sterile. 

292
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,520
But yeah, drive through RPG they
are starting to get quite nice 

293
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,080
quality, especially cards for 
example. 

294
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,000
The cards are amazing. 
Oh perfect. 

295
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:49,120
The cards in RPG, they are like 
like any board game quality any.

296
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,760
Yeah, they're very good. 
The car has been good for a 

297
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,840
while. 
I remember back when like 

298
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,720
Phillip Reed put out a bunch of 
cards with from workbook stuff. 

299
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,160
They were they were really good.
But the thing about the drive 

300
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,760
through printing, the covers are
always very shiny and that's the

301
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,680
only thing because the interiors
are really nice. 

302
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,800
I did like the Lulu though, like
I got the the marshes thick. 

303
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:13,480
It has like a nice texture like 
matte cover that if if if if 

304
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,280
drive through got to a a cover 
like this I'd I'd screw it just 

305
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,040
to drive through every time 
because this is a really nice 

306
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:20,760
quality book. 
But Lulu, Lulu does some good 

307
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:21,640
stuff as well. 
So that's. 

308
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,319
Actually, really good stuff. 
Yeah definitely. 

309
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:32,160
So yeah in the future I'm I'm 
definitely my my goal is I mean 

310
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,320
the campaign now with 
Kernethalas was a little bit of 

311
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,240
an experiment to see if it works
and I think that's the direction

312
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,840
I'm going to take which is a 
hybrid thing. 

313
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,720
The core campaign is going to be
fulfilled by Print on Demand and

314
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,520
Drive through RPG. 
And then for those who want 

315
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,440
something nicer, a bit of more 
deluxe quality, I will work with

316
00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:00,080
the the small print I I've been 
working well, the I have them up

317
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,080
there. 
That's why I'm looking there. 

318
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:05,400
The the books I I put out my my 
own edition of Disciple Bonus 

319
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,840
and Shadow, the Warlick edition.
Yeah, I guess you have them 

320
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:11,240
around there. 
Yeah, I was going. 

321
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,920
To grab it when I'm not. 
Getting out, yeah. 

322
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,000
So I'm, I'm working with those 
those people again for this, for

323
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:18,880
carne asada. 
So you can expect that level of 

324
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,360
quality and I think that's what 
I'm going to be doing moving 

325
00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:24,320
forward. 
I'm going to be releasing print 

326
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,480
on demand and if you want 
something a bit fancier, you 

327
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,760
have the option of a very 
limited edition that you know 

328
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:32,840
it's going to be more expensive,
but also it's going to look 

329
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,200
fucking amazing. 
So yeah, that's that's the 

330
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,760
feature for me, at least for the
time being. 

331
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,920
We recently had the forgotten 
some guys on SPI and environment

332
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,840
and they a similar kind of 
thing. 

333
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,640
Like the book is all gonna be 
put out but like all the add-ons

334
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,680
are gonna be after they said 
instead of basically trying to 

335
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,760
like put all these pieces 
together it made a lot more 

336
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,480
sense to just like get the book 
out and then buy add-ons after. 

337
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,640
And I think crowdfunding in 
general should really kind of 

338
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,680
think about taking that approach
where if you can get the primary

339
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,440
thing out and into peoples hands
as opposed to a lot of projects 

340
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,160
will be like we have the book 
ready but we got to wait like 6 

341
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,240
more months for the box and like
6 more months for all the 

342
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,200
pieces. 
As opposed to just being like we

343
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:14,720
have the book ready, we're going
to send you the book. 

344
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,600
And if you want a box or if you 
want an add on or you want a 

345
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,120
special edition, just hit up the
store after or we'll make like a

346
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:23,640
very small tier for it or not. 
That just seems, especially with

347
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,240
prices kind of going crazy, that
seems to be much more reliable 

348
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:28,600
way to do things. 
Yeah. 

349
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,440
I think it's important to have 
that flexibility, especially for

350
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,720
the customers. 
So I mean, the more options you 

351
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,840
have for the customers and I'm a
customer above everything, I 

352
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,920
mean, I spend hundreds every 
month on RPGs. 

353
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,840
So yeah. 
Right there with you, man. 

354
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,960
Yeah, everyone looks at Ryan. 
What do you mean? 

355
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,960
I don't, but but you're Speaking
of your games. 

356
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,280
So last time you heard you 
talked about sacrifice and you 

357
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,400
put out some big games. 
Since then, let's just talk 

358
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,720
about maybe not specifics until 
we get to some of the later 

359
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,160
ones, but just your games in 
general. 

360
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,280
Like, I feel like, you know, you
have a theme to a lot of your 

361
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,440
stuff. 
It's dark, it's it's gruesome. 

362
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,960
A lot of it's like solo or or 
solo Co-op. 

363
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,760
A lot of it has. 
A a very kind of like old 

364
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,240
schoolish vibe to it. 
Like what what would you kind of

365
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,160
describe as like your style, I 
guess in RPGs? 

366
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,920
Yeah, definitely dark fantasy 
for sure. 

367
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,600
I usually like to throw. 
Most of the time it's a bit of 

368
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:42,040
survival elements because I like
that trying to fight against the

369
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,280
elements and I don't know try to
survive in whatever whatever the

370
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,400
game or the style. 
I always had a little bit of of 

371
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:54,560
survival elements and and solo 
it's, it's always a core element

372
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,120
even even for example something 
like sacrifice which the first 

373
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:01,040
version I released didn't have 
any. 

374
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,920
It was quite solo friendly 
because I just can't help it. 

375
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,600
I always had a lot of tables and
spark of of my thing. 

376
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,440
But even that first incarnation 
that didn't have solo rules. 

377
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,960
I immediately after the first 
thing I did was release all the 

378
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,840
rules because I just I play most
of the times I'm even though I 

379
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,440
play with friends online and all
that. 

380
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,120
Lately we don't meet for 
anything but online we still 

381
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:30,880
play and most of my gaming it's 
it's done by myself So yeah it's

382
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,320
just it's it's my thing solo 
solo gaming. 

383
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,840
But yes, my I know maybe I'm a 
bit boring with always dark 

384
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,600
fantasy and green dark and it's 
just, but it's just. 

385
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,520
I mean it's been I'm into it 
since I'm I'm a child basically 

386
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,480
for hammers and all that stuff. 
I've been playing that kind of 

387
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,640
thing since I'm 12. 
So, yeah, so listen. 

388
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,040
That's not going anywhere if 
you. 

389
00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:58,840
Can do a. 
Thing. 

390
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,920
Well, you know, I mean, I don't 
think it's boring. 

391
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,000
I think it's like it's your 
thing, you know? 

392
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,360
I mean, listen, I. 
Don't know if you're making. 

393
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,480
Edge Lord. 
Grim dark stuff. 

394
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,040
You have a forever customer 
from, you know, Ryan, so. 

395
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:21,040
You know, yeah, I'm definitely 
the edge Lord here on the show. 

396
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,000
Listen, Hunter, you you you get 
that deep edge Lord streak in 

397
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,960
you too, buddy. 
Listen. 

398
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,280
I'm all butterflies and rainbows
and stuff, so I don't want to 

399
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,480
hear it. 
Yeah, it's just it's my interest

400
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:37,000
has always been in all senses, 
always in the music and 

401
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:38,760
aesthetics, everything, 
everything. 

402
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,640
It's always been darker stuff. 
So I'm too old now to change. 

403
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,440
I hear that. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

404
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,000
I feel like every time I come on
stream, I see like another 

405
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,240
another Gray popping through. 
So I'm right there with you. 

406
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,840
But but more specifically since,
yeah, Hunter, just nothing but 

407
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:58,600
Gray. 
It's right there. 

408
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,680
The full lush. 
The full lush Gray. 

409
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,200
You know, been called him a 
silver fox for a couple years 

410
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,080
now. 
But specifically about some of 

411
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,200
your some of your games after 
Sacrifice, you said the first 

412
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,120
one. 
What was the first one after 

413
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:15,360
that one? 
It wasn't Rift Breakers, was it?

414
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,040
No, no, it was. 
Broken Shores. 

415
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:17,840
Yeah. 
More. 

416
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:18,520
More game. 
Dark. 

417
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:20,160
Broken. 
Shores Yeah. 

418
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,640
Why don't we just go to some 
specifics about some of the 

419
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,360
games. 
So for for those that maybe are 

420
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:28,920
listening for to the first time,
that might not have a lot of 

421
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,600
games from Black Oath, like I 
guess let's just let's pitch. 

422
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,480
I don't know maybe not all seven
games that you've done but a 

423
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,880
couple like which which one? 
Is there anyone that you've done

424
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,960
in the past like 15 months where
you're like that? 

425
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,640
That's I fucking did the shit 
out of that one. 

426
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,000
That way, if someone's gonna 
read like one book in the last 

427
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,280
15 months that I did like, which
one do you think you'd pick 

428
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,080
well? 
Aside from across 1000 worlds, 

429
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,160
Yeah, we'll get to that one. 
Yeah, we'll get to that one. 

430
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,120
It's on the list. 
I don't know. 

431
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,160
I guess Rift Breakers I I 
really, even though that one. 

432
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:04,480
It's my basically my only game 
that is not dark fantasy. 

433
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,760
So some people stay still saved 
or think that it is dark, but I 

434
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:14,800
just don't see it. 
I mean, that's my my pure, most 

435
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,200
hard attempt at not making some.
I'm making traditional, just 

436
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,880
standard fantasy, at least with 
the setting, because my goal 

437
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:28,600
with with Rib Breakers was to 
basically take the type of game 

438
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,160
that you'll have in an MMO like 
World of Warcraft or The Elder 

439
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,560
Scrolls Online, all all these 
kind of games that I always 

440
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,320
played and I adored, and 
translating all those mechanics 

441
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:44,280
into a into a tabletop RPG. 
So you have your all the usual 

442
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,760
trappings of a randomly 
generated loot, randomly 

443
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,880
generated dungeons. 
Well, they're not really 

444
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,840
dungeons, but they are dungeons,
and everything's a dungeon. 

445
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,640
You know, yeah, I mean. 
Yeah, basically. 

446
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:04,400
They're open, open areas, but 
they work like dungeons and the 

447
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,160
the grinding, the levels and the
crafting. 

448
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,360
I don't know all the typical 
anything you can think of in 

449
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,360
World Warcraft that you can do, 
you can do in this game. 

450
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:18,880
So I'm particularly happy with 
how the the character 

451
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,960
progression, which is for me one
of the pillars of my my games, 

452
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,800
one of the reasons I put the 
RPGs character progression. 

453
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,720
I just, I just love it. 
I I mean, if a game doesn't have

454
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,000
the promise of getting stronger,
I mean, yeah, for one shot or 

455
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,480
something like, well, I guess 
it's fun for one shots. 

456
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,360
But there's another reason why I
don't play one shots. 

457
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,880
Because there's no character, 
yeah. 

458
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,000
There's not a lot of progression
when you're dropping off after 

459
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,280
that. 
Yeah, so for me, and you can see

460
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,560
it in my games, when I'm making 
a new game, it's like, OK, how 

461
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,240
can I make this game to be 
played basically infinitely? 

462
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,800
Because I just, I like that no 
ceiling type of of game of game 

463
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,800
style or at least for a very 
long time in that you will 

464
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,360
always be getting new things. 
So I think I did it pretty well.

465
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:12,760
In Rift Breakers you have a set 
of, I call them hearts which are

466
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,440
kind of subclasses or classes, 
but you you can have four at a 

467
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,600
time so you can and each heart 
has 20 different abilities which

468
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,920
work a little bit like in Dense 
Dragons. 

469
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,440
The 4th edition you have like at
will and then pair encounter and

470
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,720
and daily. 
They are called differently in 

471
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,920
my game, but they are 
essentially that, so you can 

472
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,880
then mix and match. 
So maybe you take the Bastion 

473
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,760
Heart which is all for tanking, 
stanking abilities. 

474
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,720
Or you take the Shadow heart and
it's all more rogue stabby stuff

475
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,840
or the arcanist stuff which is 
all high level magic rituals and

476
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,040
all. 
So you can combine four of those

477
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,120
and make your own a completely 
customized character. 

478
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,680
So I thought that I think is 
pretty cool. 

479
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,480
And then combined with the each 
monster I I I went completely 

480
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,960
nuts there. 11 patron one. 
One of my patrons said I I 

481
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,840
finished breakfast. 
Sorry broken shores. 

482
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,280
So it's it's a cool game but it 
the BCR is too small. 

483
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,120
So yeah, it's too small. 
OK, let's wait for the next one.

484
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,600
So I went all in and I made it's
it's almost 100 different 

485
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,680
monsters. 
But The thing is that each 

486
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,800
monster has its own table of 
actions. 

487
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,520
You know, like in like the 
enemies in Forbidden Lands, the 

488
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,440
the normal ones know the big 
ones which have your role to see

489
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,040
what they do. 
Well, every monster in the game 

490
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,600
has that. 
And then they also have the each

491
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,600
one of them has their own loot 
table. 

492
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,080
So it was I it was like 80% of 
the time I spent working on that

493
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,120
game was spent on the peace 
theory. 

494
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:55,400
It's just, I don't know, it must
be like over 100 pages of the 

495
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,880
book. 
It's just your enemies to deal 

496
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,600
with. 
So yeah, those two things, 

497
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:01,840
that's. 
Pretty impressive. 

498
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:04,720
You're like, yeah, you know 
what? 

499
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,080
You're right. 
It's not big enough. 

500
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,200
Here's a whole book. 
Yeah, it was basically. 

501
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,640
That Yeah so I think in in that 
sense the game is quite 

502
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,880
innovative that you have a lot 
of things to do and and well it 

503
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,200
shows people have have really 
been playing it a lot. 

504
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,760
I get a lot of feedback from it 
actually I've been I got so much

505
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,680
feedback from it that I I ended 
up like OK I this guys are right

506
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,720
I need to I need to change all 
these things and I ended up just

507
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,360
releasing a re uploading all the
files for print on the man and I

508
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,520
I had to revamp a lot of things 
for example I ended up changing 

509
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,040
come back to make it a little 
bit faster and I don't know I I 

510
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,480
so that's important to me also 
to adapt to the which is good 

511
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:54,400
with with another positive point
of print on demand because you 

512
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,560
can react to feedback like that 
you can incorporate not only not

513
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,600
only the PDF which is I mean 
role-playing are reaching that 

514
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,680
point where they're almost like 
video games you just have patch 

515
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,280
notes all the time and I have a 
change log in all my games it's 

516
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,200
like OK I changed all this this 
is a change log for the PDF and 

517
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,640
then when all the changes reach 
a critical mass where it reaches

518
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,840
that point where it's like OK 
there's so many changes I just 

519
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,400
upload a new version for print 
on demand and and that's it So I

520
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,840
that's the the benefit of having
on print on demand that I can be

521
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,600
updating the game and you are 
you know that you're going to 

522
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,280
have if not almost but. 
I mean and all the time, almost 

523
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,440
all the time, the last version 
with all the changes there. 

524
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,160
Of course the process of 
updating it, it takes a while 

525
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,800
because I need to up upload it 
and before uploading it since 

526
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,440
I'm not the one doing all the 
files because the that's a pain 

527
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,000
and he has the specifications 
for drive through RPG and for 

528
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,200
Amazon is a bit annoying. 
So it's clean. 

529
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,960
That's it for me. 
So I have to tell him, OK here's

530
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,280
a new version please can you 
update it? 

531
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,400
He sends it to me, then I upload
it to the website. 

532
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,120
Then I have to wait for them to 
approve it, which is usually 1-2

533
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,000
weeks and I have to wait for the
books to arrive to to me so the 

534
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,000
proves so I can approve them and
then the book can be back in 

535
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,680
sale. 
So yeah it takes like about a 

536
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:21,120
month to update the the files 
and that's why I don't do it a 

537
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,880
lot. 
But yeah, the possibility, I 

538
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,800
mean, it's only the fact that 
the possibility exists is just 

539
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,920
amazing. 
I've never. 

540
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,000
Thought about the fact that, 
like, yeah, I guess with print 

541
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,360
on demand, like, yeah, you could
just, like, switch out an 

542
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,040
updated file. 
Yeah, just like a video game. 

543
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,320
That's really clever. 
I mean, when you say I'm like, 

544
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,680
Oh yeah, that seems very 
obvious. 

545
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,840
But I've never thought about the
fact that like, yeah, you can, 

546
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,200
like, update your game without 
releasing 2E or whatever. 

547
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:47,360
Yeah. 
Exactly. 

548
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:48,440
Huh. 
Very. 

549
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:50,960
Interesting for. 
Example you go now. 

550
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:56,840
You you purchase Ruth Rakers and
I'm on version one point 6.5, 

551
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:03,000
which sounds like a video game. 
Yeah, here's some patch notes we

552
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,440
may have fix the ability of it, 
you know exactly. 

553
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,720
Which actually is very, very on 
the theme with the game because 

554
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,200
the I made it to look like a 
video game. 

555
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,760
It even has a tutorial. 
You play while you're playing 

556
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,200
your, you're making your 
character, you're playing 

557
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,080
through the tutorial area of the
game. 

558
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,400
So yeah, it's very video gaming.
So the the fact that it has 

559
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,280
patch notes, it's just perfect, 
yeah. 

560
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:33,960
It's amazingly well, yeah. 
So. 

561
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,200
After that, or I guess I mean 
we're getting around to because 

562
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,440
you already had it in your hands
like 1000 across, 1000 Dead 

563
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,160
Worlds is the one that's like 
finally coming out. 

564
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,080
It's it's as far as I know for 
right now, it's the biggest 

565
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,600
thing that you've kind of done 
for it and it's different than 

566
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,480
what we were talking about as 
far as all of these grim, dark 

567
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,000
settings. 
I guess it's grim dark, but it's

568
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,440
space. 
What made you want to switch 

569
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,000
from? 
Kind of like the grim dark 

570
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,000
dungeon crawly stuff to go to 
like space horror? 

571
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:09,160
Well, actually I'm for the most 
part I've always preferred, I 

572
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,320
mean science fiction to fantasy,
even though lately I'm in a 

573
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,600
hardcore fantasy kick. 
I'm just playing fantasy, 

574
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,240
fantasy and that's it. 
But I was always more fan of 

575
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,480
fantasy than than anything else.
And and I read, I mean, sorry 

576
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,840
science fiction and I read a lot
crazy amount of science fiction.

577
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,240
Always, always, always So. 
More than fantasy I would say. 

578
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,680
So it was just natural for me to
to want to to make something 

579
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,560
like that. 
Especially I think we I 

580
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,920
mentioned it several times and 
this is a game that is strongly 

581
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:51,600
influenced if not complete rip 
off Predict Paul's Gateway book 

582
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,920
which is an absolute masterpiece
and I always wanted to make a a 

583
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,640
game based on it. 
But of course, I wanted to also 

584
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,480
incorporate my personal 
preferences, which is a bit of 

585
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:10,120
darker stuff, a bit of horror 
alien kind of things. 

586
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,640
So yeah, that's how that's how 
it came by. 

587
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:18,840
I just, I really love fantasy. 
It's it's also from a solo 

588
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,200
perspective, it's more 
intimidating, at least for me. 

589
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,520
For example, it's very difficult
for me to play science fiction 

590
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:31,440
games solo because since you 
have a whole fucking Galaxy of 

591
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,880
possibilities, it's always is 
more difficult for me to narrow 

592
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,520
it down. 
I know you can do it, of course 

593
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,400
and and that's why I I that's 
what I tried to do with across 

594
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,000
1000 Dead Worlds I the starting 
point is very focused and very 

595
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,920
narrow. 
You have your crew and you're 

596
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,200
just going to be exploring this 
site or this planet and then 

597
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,960
once that's done you come back 
to your starting point. 

598
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,080
So in that way it's a little bit
like a video game as well. 

599
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,520
So it's like you go all out on 
missions and it's you go there, 

600
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,440
it's done and you come back. 
It's it's not on rails because 

601
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,320
things can go very bad in the 
moment, right? 

602
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,199
Even even even the possibility 
of arriving and and and dying 

603
00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,960
because you arriving, there's 
only a 2% chance of that 

604
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,840
happening. 
But yeah, the the arrival pay 

605
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,800
will it contemplates the 
possibility of your arriving? 

606
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,360
And since you are using 
spaceships that we're built 

607
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:31,360
hundreds of thousands of years 
ago, maybe the solar has gone 

608
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,159
supernova, the the sun has gone 
supernova, and you arrive in, 

609
00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:37,800
you're dead, or you arrive to a 
black hole that wasn't there 

610
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,840
before or so, yeah, there's a 
little bit small chance that you

611
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:42,639
arrive in you're dead. 
That's. 

612
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,120
Awesome, though, yeah, that 
would be like. 

613
00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:51,040
Yeah, my God. 
It's it's pretty funny too, 

614
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:56,639
because it's amazing because you
part of the tension of the game 

615
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,360
comes from the fact that you 
don't know if you're going to 

616
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,640
arrive to a place that has 
something for you to to benefit 

617
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,640
from. 
You don't know how long it takes

618
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,880
to get there and that you're 
trapped in that situation. 

619
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,840
Unless you go alone which is 
then you, Then you have another 

620
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,440
set of problems but you're 
trapped there with a bunch of 

621
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,840
other people that they are all 
going to have their their own 

622
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:23,920
personal problems and they start
to leak out during the that 

623
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,280
time, that travel time that you 
spend. 

624
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,000
I mean it it's at least a week, 
it's in on average. 

625
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,480
So in my experience it's at 
least 3-4 weeks. 

626
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,440
So each week you have a chance 
of something happening and this 

627
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,240
can be something malfunctioning 
or somebody having a breakdown 

628
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,120
and and that of course effects 
to the other because there's a 

629
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,720
stress system in in the game and
things escalate pretty fast 

630
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,800
because when one start one 
person oh look my dog decides to

631
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,520
come here. 
When one. 

632
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,720
Person starts to have a bit of a
mental breakdown. 

633
00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:02,840
Of course the other ones are to 
to to get nervous as well, so it

634
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,800
can snowball pretty quickly. 
So imagine you get over all that

635
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:13,800
stuff you managed to to take the
the situation and to to, I mean 

636
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,440
not allowed to escalate and then
you arrive. 

637
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,600
It's like, OK, we're exiting A 
warp space, we're entering into 

638
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:20,680
normal space. 
Where are we? 

639
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,000
And then you die. 
So. 

640
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,400
So it's pretty, yeah, I mean 
some people have said what's the

641
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,480
point of that? 
I mean some people are pissed 

642
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,000
off. 
I remember the comments and all 

643
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,600
that. 
It's like I don't understand the

644
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,520
point of possibility of dying. 
And so I just couldn't resist. 

645
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,240
It's just it's just too funny. 
No, it's way too funny. 

646
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,520
Yeah, absolutely. 
Yeah. 

647
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:43,960
And on. 
Top of that, there's no big deal

648
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,000
because character creation, I 
mean, you're done and the 

649
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,280
characters are done in a second 
takes in 10 minutes. 

650
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,280
You have your character, it's 
just a couple of roles and 

651
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,560
you're done. 
You get into the mission and you

652
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,080
have all that section of drama 
in the travel. 

653
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,920
Or maybe you're lucky not, maybe
nothing happened and then you're

654
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,560
arriving, You're dead. 
It's just it's so amazing. 

655
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,600
Session zero. 
At least for the for a group or 

656
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,840
solo, it's just very fun. 
Yeah, I don't know. 

657
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,280
Some people get mad. 
I love that stuff. 

658
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,720
Like in 12 years you can just 
die in character creation. 

659
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,160
Like, you could literally just, 
like not even get out of it. 

660
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,280
Like, I think that cracks me up.
And I did once. 

661
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,040
It was great. 
I was like, well, fuck, I guess,

662
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:23,640
sorry. 
Next. 

663
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:24,800
Page. 
Let's start again. 

664
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,880
Like, that's great, people. 
Of since Traveler did it in the 

665
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,280
70s, it's it's a staple of 
role-playing games. 

666
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:31,800
You can die in character 
creation. 

667
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,600
Well, you can die a little bit 
after character creation. 

668
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,320
It's fine. 
I just think that. 

669
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,600
If I was playing a game and we 
were like went through the whole

670
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,960
thing, we're traveling and we're
all like getting excited, then 

671
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:42,840
we shut up. 
We died. 

672
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,960
I would. 
I would bust that last thing. 

673
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:45,360
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

674
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,120
I I don't know. 
I think it takes like a certain,

675
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:53,040
you have to have that really 
like that very OSR Ish mindset 

676
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,360
about like him. 
We just die all the time at this

677
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,520
table, you know? 
Yeah, yeah. 

678
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,400
I guess, I guess it depends on 
the table, of course, like 

679
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,560
everything. 
But at least in in my experience

680
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,480
and with my friends and all 
that, it's you die. 

681
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,400
It's like, OK, well, I'll roll 
up a new character that happens.

682
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,960
Just you just laugh about it. 
You talk about it for a. 

683
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,480
Few especially. 
If it's something epic like this

684
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,920
is just a funny story that I 
remember when we all died after 

685
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,560
arguing for a week and we almost
killed each other, and then 

686
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,400
finally we we decided to to bury
the hatchet and when we just 

687
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,400
died. 
It's just a funny story, yeah. 

688
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,080
Yeah, it's definitely it's. 
Definitely a different mindset, 

689
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,240
you know, for, for for players 
like in that, like if you see 

690
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:40,560
the whole thing as the game and 
the journey as the game and all 

691
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,600
of it as the game, it's totally 
different. 

692
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,600
Like when you die versus it's 
not really the game until you 

693
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,760
get like the combat or something
like thought, you know, it's 

694
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,160
just a different thing, you 
know, So I mean, character 

695
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,880
creation's the game, so if you 
die like Oh well, you know, so. 

696
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:00,640
The other. 
Project. 

697
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,440
Well, not the other the project 
you have going on right now as 

698
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,280
well. 
Kernel thalis tell us that what 

699
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,960
is, what is, what's what's the 
pitch, what do we got going on 

700
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,960
with that right now? 
Yeah. 

701
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,800
So yeah, as you said, it's 
currently funding on Kickstarter

702
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,920
and it's doing pretty well. 
I'm I'm pretty happy with it. 

703
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:23,080
And the idea behind Karen Asalas
was basically to make the 

704
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,320
ultimate dungeon crawler. 
I went back to basics. 

705
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,480
It's very it has a very narrow 
focus. 

706
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:39,560
So it's you're not he's decided 
to, so it's attention. 

707
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,160
Time dude. 
Yeah, yeah, he. 

708
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,600
Decided that he has to be here. 
So yeah, with Kerneth, alas, 

709
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,040
it's it's really a solo game. 
I mean, you can play a Co-op, 

710
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,200
but this is you. 
I will. 

711
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,440
Some people maybe wouldn't even 
consider it a real RPG because I

712
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,800
don't think you can play with a 
dungeon master or something like

713
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,400
that. 
Oh, I mean, you could, but. 

714
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,560
It will be a bit boring I 
suppose, for the dungeon Master,

715
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,960
because it's like I said, it's a
very narrow focus. 

716
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:11,840
It's the whole thing, the, the, 
the, the the reason for for you 

717
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,800
to be in the dungeon is 
basically that you you've been 

718
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,760
executed or supposedly executed 
because somehow you survive and 

719
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:26,640
you wake up in a pile of corpses
and you with of course the wound

720
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,600
of being hanged. 
You are fucked up. 

721
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,720
I mean your character starts 
with with less health points. 

722
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:35,360
There's a sanity system of 
course because it's a horror 

723
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,560
dungeon crawler game. 
So yeah, you you are fucked both

724
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,120
mentally and physically. 
No weapons, no anything and you 

725
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,120
just have to it's like OK, where
the fuck am I? 

726
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,280
Oh yes, they threw me where they
throw all the corpses, which is 

727
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,640
the big necropolis under the 
city. 

728
00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:56,160
So your your point is to survive
and try to find out a way out of

729
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:01,080
of that mess. 
So you just discuss, I really I 

730
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,160
call it a dungeon survival game 
more than dungeon crawling game 

731
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:10,760
because I try to go to a little 
bit more towards that unexplored

732
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,640
area when it comes to dungeon 
crawling games. 

733
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,520
Because I think it hasn't been 
done, at least in this kind of 

734
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,400
more focused game, which my 
references for it will be 

735
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,720
something like four against 
Darkness or 12 years. 

736
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,320
The 100 dungeon. 
Those kind of games which are, 

737
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,560
yeah, you just go into the 
dungeon and you go and kill the 

738
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,080
monsters and get out. 
Well here is you are fucked. 

739
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,520
You don't have anything. 
You have to come out and 

740
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:41,280
survive. 
And of course there's a big 

741
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,080
inspiration. 
Diablo, of course. 

742
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,960
I mean it's just you have all 
the randomly generated dungeons 

743
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:53,360
in that same kind of style. 
A big focus on undead and and 

744
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:58,400
demonic stuff and and huge 
system for randomly generating 

745
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,480
all the items you find all the 
all the magic items are all 

746
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,120
randomly generated and on top of
that I'm very happy with the 

747
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,120
system because it's super. 
I mean you literally take three 

748
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:12,280
dice and and there you have a 
massive magic item tailor for 

749
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,160
the for the occasion and and the
possibilities. 

750
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,560
I mean literally endless the 
amount of magic items you can 

751
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,040
make with with that. 
So yeah I think the the the cool

752
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,760
thing about the game is that 
it's Daniel's survival because 

753
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,760
like OK you are in an hostile 
place. 

754
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,840
The Danjon is not at this cave 
system or no no this is a 

755
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,120
hostile place. 
It used to be the capital of a 

756
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:39,480
gigantic necromantic empire that
ruled the area thousands of 

757
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,760
years ago. 
They it's just all their all the

758
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,920
all their undead, all their 
creations are buried down there,

759
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,920
maybe even some of the original 
inhabitants of that empire. 

760
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,160
And you have to survive. 
So you want to sleep, you want 

761
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,480
to rest. 
OK, then you better make sure 

762
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,600
you barricade that room and that
you spend all resources that 

763
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,640
you've been collecting, all all 
the garbage you've been 

764
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,440
collecting. 
You better close up all those 

765
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,360
doors and exits and entrances. 
You better craft your gear 

766
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:15,040
properly, repair all your stuff,
craft craft torches, cook some 

767
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,160
stuff from all the weird 
mushrooms you found so you can 

768
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,360
eat something. 
I mean it's it has that element 

769
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,240
of survival and I think it makes
it quite fun and intense. 

770
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:30,320
It's very important also to know
when you have to stop to to set 

771
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:35,720
camp and and to to rest, because
there's this exhaustion system 

772
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:39,280
that the more you push it, the 
more dangerous it is that's 

773
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,920
stopping consumers resources. 
Maybe you don't have enough to 

774
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,200
make a proper camp and to 
barricade yourself. 

775
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,400
So maybe you're sleeping and 
then suddenly Masters bursting 

776
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,000
into your camp and you have a 
fight. 

777
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:55,040
So yeah, I think it's fun. 
I had a lot of fun both writing 

778
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,360
it and playing it, and people 
seem to have fun with it, so I'm

779
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,080
very excited about it. 
Super stoked. 

780
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,240
For it. 
It's funny cuz a few days ago 

781
00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:09,120
actually, Ryan pitched me his 
idea for a game, which is like, 

782
00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:11,400
almost exactly. 
Yeah, we talked. 

783
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,840
About it, you know, I was like, 
this is very funny because 

784
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,920
current palace is the same. 
Like, damn it. 

785
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,920
But I do like the. 
Whole flip dungeon crawl where 

786
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,680
it's like you're not entering a 
place like you're you're trying 

787
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,320
to leave, you know you're trying
to get out of here and it's a 

788
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,640
completely hostile area and you 
have nothing. 

789
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,520
You only have what you find. 
Good luck. 

790
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,560
You know, it sounds like a lot 
of fun. 

791
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,000
I'm really excited. 
It's going to be like it's solo 

792
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,320
and Co-op, right? 
Yeah, yeah, I'm stoked for that.

793
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,080
That sounds really cool. 
Make my girlfriend play it with 

794
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,680
me so for. 
Two players is absolutely 

795
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:47,920
perfect. 
Awesome. 

796
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,520
It's a good balance for two 
players. 

797
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,120
Yeah, the game scales to to two 
players very nicely. 

798
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,600
So yeah, yeah, it's fine. 
And then for those there. 

799
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,240
You have a quick start on the 
page, which is great. 

800
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,200
The there's some interesting 
parts to it too, which really, 

801
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,400
you know, it kind of clues you 
in the way the system works. 

802
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:10,280
Even bit masteries are are kind 
of classes, right? 

803
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,920
And there's twenty of them. 
There's twenty of them. 

804
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,800
It's a lot of stuff you can be, 
yeah. 

805
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,680
I I had a lot of fun. 
Like I said, for me character 

806
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,360
progression is crucial in the 
game and and I always go all in.

807
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:32,880
I mean with oh oh so it's you 
have 20 masteries you start it's

808
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,720
cutting or can you hear me? 
Oh yeah, down for a. 2nd But 

809
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:36,520
you're back. 
We're good. 

810
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,760
We're back. 
Yeah, so. 

811
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,000
Yeah, you have 20 masteries. 
You start with picking two. 

812
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:49,080
Each mastery has five different 
skills like tiers of skills and 

813
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:50,800
and gives you also a passive 
ability. 

814
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,960
So you basically when you start 
that new character, you start 

815
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:58,640
with two passive abilities and 
two active abilities and and 

816
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,840
each time you level up you gain 
one point which you can spend in

817
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:07,000
either one of your masteries. 
But The thing is that there's 

818
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,040
you can get a third mastery 
through gear. 

819
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,880
If you find an amulet, amulets 
have a random mastery. 

820
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,280
So you have your two fixed 
masteries but you have a third 

821
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,000
one that which you can be 
swapping depending on if you're 

822
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,160
lucky and find several amulets 
which I did with my place we 

823
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,640
actually it's like OK in this 
section I'm going to be using 

824
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,200
dismal it because this is is 
this type of enemies and and of 

825
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:34,360
course the the dungeon or 
Necropolis or Cairnethallas 

826
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,600
itself. 
I divided it into sections so 

827
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,040
it's section is ruled by an 
overseer which will be like this

828
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,280
boss of like Diablo. 
You have this big boss governing

829
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,200
a whole section and depending on
which boss it is it, it gives 

830
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,640
like a different boost to all 
the enemies in that section. 

831
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:58,240
So you have the option of going 
to try to find straight the 

832
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,960
straight against the the 
overseer so the rest of the 

833
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,600
section is easier because the 
enemies will be less buffed. 

834
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,200
Or you can if the enemy the the 
overseer the big boss. 

835
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,680
If you see it's just something 
you you can't deal with, you can

836
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,480
ignore it and try to find the 
exit of that section and move on

837
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,760
to to the next one. 
You can always go back to to the

838
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,760
previous one if you want to. 
So yeah, if you are lucky you 

839
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:31,720
will find a Mastery amulet in 
each different section and it 

840
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:35,960
gives you that extra flexibility
when it comes to building your 

841
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,880
character. 
Yeah, it's a fun system. 

842
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,240
I'm. 
Really excited for that. 

843
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:47,080
Not only that I know, I don't 
know how much this has gone out 

844
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,600
of Patreon, so I'll let you talk
about it if if it leads to the 

845
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,360
conversation. 
Skills are a big thing in this 

846
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,320
as opposed to cause like there's
there's stats right? 

847
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,880
But some of your skills a lot of
people put as like attributes 

848
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:01,720
and other ones cause your 
attributes are a little bit 

849
00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:04,120
different in this. 
But skills are pretty heavy and 

850
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,040
you've been talking about like 
kind of a skill thing as well. 

851
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:09,960
So what? 
What made you kind of like wanna

852
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,600
make the like this bigger list 
of skills and things that dig 

853
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,920
into that and then maybe 
something that has come out 

854
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,320
along that as well. 
Like what what what what's your 

855
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,760
what was the impetus for that? 
Yeah, so as you know, I'm 

856
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,160
usually the the crunchy guy. 
I mean, I'm role masters. 

857
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,880
My Bible is the best game ever 
made. 

858
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,280
And yeah, I just want to say. 
Just the GM. 

859
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,720
Just the screen for Role Master 
is five times bigger than most 

860
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:41,000
games that I play. 
And that's just the screen, not 

861
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,080
the book. 
So I I yeah, it's the crunchy 

862
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:45,400
guy is a bit of an 
understatement. 

863
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,520
Yeah, I. 
Just I especially as a solo 

864
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,280
player. 
I I personally believe that it's

865
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:57,000
easier to solo games when you 
have this big support system and

866
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,760
you don't have to be stopping 
all the time to think, OK this 

867
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,120
is very big. 
If I'm if I were the GM why 

868
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:06,920
would I do How do I interpret 
this? 

869
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,800
No, I I like that it's very 
clear that you don't have to put

870
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,080
your GM hat all the time and it 
breaks in merchant that way. 

871
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:19,400
If you know if if all the 
procedures are detailed in the 

872
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,120
book. 
I think it helps for me at least

873
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,560
as a solo player. 
That's why I don't like Powered 

874
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,880
by the Apocalypse games, because
they're just too vague as a as a

875
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:31,000
as a solo player, me as a player
at somebody else's table. 

876
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,840
I I play anything but me as AGM 
or as a solo player. 

877
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:39,720
I just, I need crunch. 
If it's too light as AGM, that 

878
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:43,200
means I have to house rule a 
lot, I have to make a lot of 

879
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,280
content for it. 
And then at one point it's 

880
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,920
always like, OK, why am I making
content for this game instead of

881
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:55,000
making it for my own games? 
So and and as a solo player if I

882
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,280
have to be I remember playing 
everybody as a solo player 

883
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,240
everybody has played I don't 
sworn I suppose so I remember 

884
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,120
having to play it all it stop 
all the time. 

885
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,880
It's like OK this which move 
should I choose. 

886
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,840
I have all this list this one is
too vague this one is and with 

887
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:15,080
skills it's like OK I'm want I 
want to smell what is perception

888
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,640
they're done. 
So it's it's much faster for me 

889
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,600
if you have a list of skills and
it's it's just more concrete. 

890
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:27,680
So I have that natural tendency 
of moving away from vagueness of

891
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:30,520
abilities, like the ability 
score. 

892
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:35,720
So I know a lot of games just 
use ability scores and that's it

893
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:42,840
and and no skills and it works. 
But me personally, I like things

894
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,960
to be a little bit more defined.
I like things to be more 

895
00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:47,640
concrete. 
I have to think less. 

896
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:49,760
I just look at the sheet of 
paper and it's there and I can 

897
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,960
focus on the story and the story
moves so long without me having 

898
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,400
to be thinking about the engine 
behind the story. 

899
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:58,840
But that's that's just me. 
Of course. 

900
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,680
I mean, everybody plays 
differently, every table is 

901
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,000
different. 
I mean, it's that's just what 

902
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,360
works for me as a player and 
therefore that's what I do as a 

903
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,120
designer. 
So lately I've been slowly but 

904
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,800
surely moving away from 
attributes and abilities, scores

905
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,160
and all that and more only into 
skills. 

906
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,600
So Kurt and Thallis is my first 
game that it doesn't have any 

907
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,800
ability to score. 
So it's just a list of skills. 

908
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:28,600
You have the basic attributes of
health and sanity and but you 

909
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,040
can't call those abilities the 
ability scores. 

910
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,760
They're just like something 
else. 

911
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:34,160
Everybody got tracks. 
Oh. 

912
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:35,600
Yes. 
You know, yeah. 

913
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,560
Whatever you. 
Want to call it or either, which

914
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:43,760
is your mana points. 
So yeah, but for for everything 

915
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,280
else you have your list of 
skills. 

916
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,760
It's AD 100 based system. 
It's if you play called Hulu or 

917
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,400
any BRP game, you're going to be
right at home because it's 

918
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:59,520
greatly inspired by that system 
which is after Role Master. 

919
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:03,000
For me, BRP is the best rule set
ever created. 

920
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:07,000
Well, if I mean Objective BRP is
actually the best rule set ever 

921
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,280
created. 
Role Master is too clunky many 

922
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,560
times, but it has the best 
scripts in the history of 

923
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,440
gaming. 
So that's why for me it's #1, 

924
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,040
but well, that's beyond the 
point. 

925
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,760
So yeah, I've been moving more 
towards skill based systems 

926
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:29,120
because it's what I enjoy and 
and I think they work well also 

927
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:34,920
for newcomers, which was one of 
my design goals with Karna Salas

928
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,920
making a game that will be easy 
to grasp for people who never 

929
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:44,800
played solo games. 
So I think big part of that is 

930
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,560
that percentages is something 
that everybody understands and 

931
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,160
if you see on your piece of 
paper that says OK, I have a 60%

932
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:59,360
chance of jumping or whatever, 
OK, you know that if you have 

933
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:04,560
60% chance to roll D100 if it's 
less than 60 it's a success, 

934
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,120
it's I mean it's doesn't get it,
any person understands that. 

935
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:12,320
So having that list of just 
skills and not having to add 

936
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:18,280
anything or this goal, this 
Difficulty Class or I mean all 

937
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:23,000
those things that can model the 
Waddles a little bit for for 

938
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:24,720
newcomers I think is very 
intuitive. 

939
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:28,440
You just see it OK here 60% 
shooting, 40% whatever. 

940
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,720
I mean it's everybody 
understands that it's very 

941
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:34,120
straight to the point. 
And yeah, and I like it, it's 

942
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,760
and so since I like it, that's 
why. 

943
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,560
Yeah. 
I just make. 

944
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,880
Interesting. 
I would want to play, yeah. 

945
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:44,320
Well, I mean. 
I hope that people would. 

946
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:46,760
I mean, I would not put time 
into a game that I wouldn't want

947
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,320
to play. 
But it's also interesting 

948
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:49,760
hearing you say that because 
that's something I hadn't 

949
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,600
thought about either. 
Like I know, like thinking of 

950
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,680
your games, I'm like in my head,
I'm like they're going to be 

951
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,560
dark with super metal art and a 
lot of crunch. 

952
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:06,120
So I didn't really think about 
like, why to an extent. 

953
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,800
And and I've been a fan of yours
for longer than like the last 15

954
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,560
months when the first time we 
talked, it never really looked 

955
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:17,560
into my head that the solo play 
and kind of like what you need 

956
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,760
to really help solo, which if 
I'm playing by myself, obviously

957
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,640
I want to be able for things to 
just tell me what's going on. 

958
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,280
I don't wanna make it up on my 
own. 

959
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,600
That's kind of leads into solo 
journaling and I like solo 

960
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,880
adventure kind of the same issue
that having that more crunch 

961
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:35,760
really just helps a little bit 
more. 

962
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,760
And that's why even in your kind
of like not solo or or the ones 

963
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,040
that are Co-op friendly games, 
the crunch is still there 

964
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,640
because it's just the style you 
have because that's how you 

965
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,560
generally play and and and make 
the solo stuff. 

966
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:50,720
That's just an interesting kind 
of enlightenment to hear about. 

967
00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:54,040
And it kind of like I don't know
changes like how not how I think

968
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,640
about our games, but like how I 
like perceive the games a little

969
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:57,320
bit. 
It's like that. 

970
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,600
That's why this is. 
This is why this exists this 

971
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:01,080
way. 
Yeah, exactly. 

972
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,320
And that's why they are always 
full of tables. 

973
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,960
Also I I always make all the 
games and from the perspective 

974
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:10,840
of a solo player and and the way
I play solo games of course. 

975
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,280
So that influences everything. 
I I make and and write. 

976
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:18,040
I always had a lot of tables all
the generators I can think of 

977
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:23,680
and and the all the procedures 
and and detailing them as much 

978
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:27,960
as I can to make it easier. 
Of course that's still work in 

979
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:29,640
progress. 
Many times I don't. 

980
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,760
I I I made. 
I make it too combulated or I 

981
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:37,840
just don't explain things as 
they should or assume a lot of 

982
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:42,040
things that I have the tendency 
of assuming that people play 

983
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,200
games or read games this way I 
do. 

984
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:48,320
Which is like if I don't like 
something or I understand, I 

985
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:52,160
understand it perfectly clear 
the first time or it's vague. 

986
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,080
I I homebrew it. 
I do it my way and a lot of 

987
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,520
people don't play that way. 
I've I've learning the hard way.

988
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:02,320
A lot of people want things very
very very very yeah, yeah, and 

989
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,600
very concise and very clearly 
explained and nothing open to 

990
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,440
interpretation. 
So I have to listen. 

991
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,320
I have to. 
There's a lot of people. 

992
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,280
That just want to be told what 
to do and how to think, you 

993
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:15,800
know? 
Yeah, yeah. 

994
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,960
So I'm not talking about TP. 
RBDS, but anyway. 

995
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,000
Yeah. 
So 1000 Dead Worlds Across the 

996
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,920
Thousand Dead Worlds is on the 
on the Ocean and in in the post 

997
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:29,480
and all that stuff. 
Already it's in the truck. 

998
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,520
In the truck, It's in the truck.
Kerneth Hollis is on Kickstarter

999
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,920
right now. 
What's the next thing? 

1000
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:36,880
What? 
What's what's What's coming next

1001
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:38,680
from Blackout Entertainment? 
Well. 

1002
00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:40,840
Very, very soon I'll be 
releasing. 

1003
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:47,280
Speaking of all this skill based
stuff, which is my has been my 

1004
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:52,000
tendency, the other day I once 
again I start to play Dungeon 

1005
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:56,480
Girl Classics which is one of 
the best games ever made and 

1006
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:00,400
like every time I sit you're 
like I want I want slow. 

1007
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:05,840
Chat, yeah. 
I think it's amazing and it has 

1008
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,560
the best magic rules ever. 
I mean, it's just brilliant 

1009
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,680
overall. 
But the problem I always have 

1010
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:14,360
with it is that it doesn't have 
skills. 

1011
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,720
And I'm reaching that point 
where if it doesn't have skills 

1012
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,640
I can play it and each time I 
sit to play Dungeon crawl 

1013
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,760
classics I played a couple of 
sessions and there's like OK 

1014
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,360
let's just add skills and each 
time I play I add that new skill

1015
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:32,400
system and and I I just keep 
adding rules and so I have all 

1016
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:42,400
these home rules and systems and
and ideas to turn non skill 

1017
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,240
based D20 systems into skill 
based. 

1018
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,920
So that's what I'm going to 
release I I created a a new 

1019
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:54,560
engine which I'm calling skill 
20 and it's a way of translating

1020
00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:00,040
games like Dungeon called crowd 
classics but it works with any 

1021
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:05,480
OSR ability based system to 
translate it into a skill only 

1022
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:12,600
rule set so I'll be publishing 
that this week more probably. 

1023
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,200
Maybe. 
Yeah during the weekend maybe 

1024
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,360
Monday at most. 
I'm I finished it writing today 

1025
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:23,640
actually I I started a little 
bit with layout and it's it 

1026
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:27,560
should be I of course I end up 
always adding a little bit more 

1027
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,680
than I intend so I was thinking 
OK I this is going to be 20 

1028
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:36,080
pages that's and I think it's 
going to be more like 50-60 but 

1029
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,520
I'm putting it up for free. 
I'll put it all over for free 

1030
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:43,040
and then I'm hoping to get more 
feedback from it. 

1031
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,320
I'm hoping people like it and 
make stuff with it. 

1032
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:50,120
And based on this I'm going to 
write my own game which I've 

1033
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:55,120
been writing down notes for it 
for months Want to make 

1034
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,360
something. 
I'm not usually a fan of science

1035
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:06,400
fantasy but I just I have the 
urge lately to make something in

1036
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:10,360
that vein. 
So I've been writing down notes 

1037
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,440
for it for at least 3-4 months. 
I have a few pages of notes 

1038
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,960
already for a setting. 
And yeah, I'm going to be using 

1039
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:22,120
this kill 20 rule set, right? 
So you can expect D20 base 

1040
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:24,960
rules. 
The I mean the traditional thing

1041
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,480
that everybody who's playing 
Dungeons and Dragons knows the 

1042
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:33,760
D20 plus modifier and they're 
the target number or the 50 

1043
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,520
class and that's it. 
So this is the same, It's just 

1044
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,880
instead of using ability scores,
you're just skills. 

1045
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,000
Just skills. 
That's it. 

1046
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,480
So I love. 
Science fantasy. 

1047
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,000
So yeah. 
Not the only for me. 

1048
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,480
I'm grim, dark, dark fantasy. 
You're definitely science 

1049
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,400
fantasy. 
And then we'll crossover 

1050
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:52,280
sometimes. 
So we're good. 

1051
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:53,840
Yeah. 
That's what I was trying to get 

1052
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,040
into the skill thing. 
I I never remember like what I 

1053
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,760
saw on Twitter versus what I saw
on Patreon versus what I saw, 

1054
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:00,200
where I saw. 
I was like, is this something 

1055
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:01,880
that we're supposed to not talk 
about yet. 

1056
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:03,400
So I'm glad that that that's 
what came through. 

1057
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,440
Yeah, so. 
That's going to be done then. 

1058
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,440
I have Under Russian Skies, 
which is our previous 

1059
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,560
Kickstarter, the game I finished
with Alan Barr. 

1060
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:16,520
Well, he finished it actually, 
because otherwise it wouldn't 

1061
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,480
have seen the light of day. 
Because I I started working on 

1062
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,680
it years and years ago. 
I got stuck. 

1063
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:26,880
I just couldn't finish it. 
And Alan came to the rescue. 

1064
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,840
He finished it. 
The Kickstarter was a success. 

1065
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,400
And it's it's done. 
We're now just waiting for the 

1066
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,760
art. 
Which Leo from LFOSR. 

1067
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:40,760
He's he's doing it. 
So yeah, and it should be done. 

1068
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,840
It should be out next month on 
Drive to RPGI, I suppose. 

1069
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,400
And then, well, I don't know a 
bunch of other a lot of 

1070
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,320
different projects I have in in 
the works. 

1071
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,960
That's usual #2. 
The second issue of Demonic 

1072
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,200
should be out next month. 
Also should be this month for 

1073
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:03,640
patrons and, yeah, next month, I
suppose for for everybody else. 

1074
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:05,800
And yeah, and I have a lot of 
things. 

1075
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:07,240
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1076
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,640
I feel like I said every time I 
get a Patreon thing, it's like, 

1077
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,040
hey, here's an update on 
something, But here's three more

1078
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:15,200
I'm working on, and as soon as 
one drops, you get three more. 

1079
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,360
So Speaking of your Patreon, 
Speaking of the Skill 20 

1080
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:21,840
dropping, like, where are people
gonna be able to find these 

1081
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:23,760
things? 
First of all, if you're not a 

1082
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:27,840
patron, if we haven't said it 
enough, this man puts out a lot 

1083
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,280
of shit. 
So be a patron and you get all 

1084
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,720
of this stuff all the time, so 
I'd highly recommend it. 

1085
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:34,880
So where can people find what is
your Patreon? 

1086
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,640
What what is your, how can 
people find, drive through, 

1087
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:38,880
what's your website, all that 
kind of stuff? 

1088
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:40,240
Where can people find all this 
great stuff? 

1089
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:44,080
Yeah. 
So I guess the easiest thing 

1090
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,280
will be to go to my hub which is
my website. 

1091
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:50,440
Just go to blackholtgames.com 
and there you have links to all 

1092
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:55,920
my stuff in drive through RPG. 
It's dot IO and even Amazon. 

1093
01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:00,440
You can get them printed on 
demand on Amazon and then my 

1094
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:05,160
patron too, which is the order 
of the black holes and but if 

1095
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,200
you go to my website 
blackhostgames.com, you have 

1096
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,480
everything there. 
So yeah, awesome. 

1097
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:14,280
Hey. 
Listen. 

1098
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:17,960
Let's not wait 15 months for you
to come on the show again, but 

1099
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:21,440
thank you so much for for being 
here, I feel like. 

1100
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:23,320
If you came back in a. 
Month we'd have like 4 more 

1101
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,600
games to talk about. 
So it's always it's always nice,

1102
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,160
probably because. 
Right now I'm thinking of a 

1103
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,600
couple of other games, which I 
didn't. 

1104
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,200
So yeah. 
If you next month, I could 

1105
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,480
already tell you about three 
other games which are about to 

1106
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:38,760
be published as well. 
We can leave it for next. 

1107
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:40,760
Yeah, we'll do. 
We'll do it for the. 

1108
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:42,840
Next time, but yeah, seriously, 
thank you so much for coming on.

1109
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:45,040
It's always great talking to you
and and you know we we talk a 

1110
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,160
lot out of here, but it's nice 
to have you on the show as well.

1111
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,600
So so yeah, that's that's our 
show for today. 

1112
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:55,760
You go to blackoathgames.com, 
find all of Alex's stuff and you

1113
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,200
know where our stuff is. 
It's on the screen, it's in the 

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liner notes. 
You can find our link tree at 

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01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:05,400
Link Tree slash the Weekly 
Scroll and and catch us for our 

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01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,800
other stuff. 
We have something excited coming

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tomorrow, but we'll talk about 
it on our Twitter. 

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So again, thank you Alex so much
for being here. 

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Thank you everyone for being in 
chat and everyone out there have

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01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:14,880
a wonderful day.