Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll podcast.
My Name Is Ryan. And I am a necromancer of the
Valorean Ascendancy. Yes, you are.
And with us today, we have a very special guest.
Yes, it's been here before. Happy to have him back.
This is Alex of Black Oath Entertainment.
How you doing today, Alex? Hey, I'm doing great.
Very happy to be here again, yeah.
Big, big fan of your work and I know that you're a, you're a big
fan of the show here, which we super appreciate.
So it's definitely what's funny is like we talk kind of a lot.
So it's weird that it's been this long since you've been back
on the show. So again, yeah, it's it's great
to have you back. Yeah, I know it's.
I'm very excited. It's this this show is
fantastic. I always have a lot of fun, so
yeah. Thank you for saying that.
I think you've only put out like. 50 games I.
Think you've only put out like 50 games a month since last time
you've been here? That's what it feels like.
Is that Is that about it? Is that about right?
More or less, I guess. No.
Yeah, I just keep releasing stuff relentlessly.
I know, but but a couple of people have told me you are
releasing too many things too fast and it's just as hard to
keep up. That is just the muse.
The muse is what what they want. They inspire me.
I mean, it's kind of true if you're already dropping another
game and I haven't even got the book from like the drive through
RPG like POD yet that takes four to six weeks to ship, then you
might be putting out stuff at A at a clip, but but you're you're
full time now, right? Like which I mean I think a lot
of people were like, well he has to be full, full time already
cuz he puts out, you know, like I gave a month but but you just
recently went full time, right? Yeah, basically this week I I
just said fuck it. This, this is it.
I'm going full time with this. I got fed up.
Congratulations. With this previous stuff,
thanks. Thanks.
It's it's been a long time coming and I kind of wanted to
do it for a while now. But yeah, it's taking me four
years to get to this point. So I I guess it's OK.
Yeah, I was basically just slacking a lot on my other job
anyway and focusing on this mostly.
So I was like, yeah, let's just make it official.
And so yeah, this is it. Nice, That's.
Cool. Very exciting.
Yeah. I wish, man, if I could do this
full time, I would be. I'd be very happy.
Alas, I cannot. So.
No, it's it's an absolute privilege to be able to to even
contemplate the possibility possibility of doing this full
time. Very grateful.
Yeah, so and then part of that too is your is your Patreon,
which also gets support for you as well and you send out more
updates than anyone, any Patreon that I back.
And all of them are like a book and there's a book's worth of
stuff. Every time you put out an
update, it's like you're like, hey, here's some info on this
game and the next three games I'm working on at all times, so.
Yeah, the patron is actually. It's the reason I would say why
I'm so productive because I really many times like, OK, I
have to put something out. I I know that if I didn't have
the, the let's call it pressure even though it's not really
pressure but the pressure of of Patreon and being forced to to
put something out every month, I know I wouldn't be working at
this rate. Well, maybe now that I'm full
time yes, but before I don't think so I will be a little bit
more relaxed. But knowing that I have people
who are not only put in their faith but they're hard earned
cash on on me and they believe in in my work and the things I I
do it really motivates me to to keep releasing stuff.
So yeah, I try to at the very least have, I don't know, some
small expansion. I don't know at least 20-30
pages of worth of content Monthly and in each 2-3 months
I'm I'm able to release a full games, which usually means over
200 pages because that's that's how I am.
That is a crazy amount of output.
You know, like. It's truly it's really nothing.
Compared to monsters like Alan Barr, it's just nothing.
It's that guy is just he makes what I do in two or three weeks.
He does it daily. It's just monstrous.
It's just The thing is that he doesn't publish everything he he
writes. But if if you knew how many
games he has unpublished, it must be in the hundreds
basically. And I'm not talking about 1-2
pages games. No, he makes 50 pages games
daily. It's just ridiculous.
So I'm I'm nothing. I'm a completely amateur
comparison. And then there's some people out
there who haven't put anything on their Patreon in eight months
and they're still charging. So you know we appreciate those
that that do. So very.
True. And people I that's just, I will
feel horrible horrible even though I mean last month for
example that as you know I just put half a number of demonic of
the official sacrifice number which was 22 pages and and I was
already feeling horrible. I was like this is shit this is
I dropped the ball this is not good because lately I've been
really pushing it hard with Patreon content.
So yeah it's it's really a a good motivation and on top of
that yeah once it's there a couple months later I can Polish
it for everybody. So it's it's great, it's really
nice thing to have Patreon both for us motivation and and for
the support which helps a lot, helps pay the bills now.
Yeah well I mean it's yeah yeah you got it now for sure What now
I'm trying to remember what were we talking about last time you
were on was that was that when across the thousand dead world
was was even before that it. Was sacrifice.
That's. When it was sacrifice.
Damn, that's been a. Minute.
Yeah. Like a year and and something, I
don't know, like 15 months at least.
Yeah, last time, yeah. Easy, yeah.
And you've put out. I mean, even just trying to
think of what you put out since then, it's like, at least like
what? Like five or six games since
then, right? Well, maybe not that many.
I mean, let's see after sacrifice it was Broken shores.
Well, originally what's called got Shard, but I had to change
it as you as I guess you know. But yeah, Broken Shores and it
was wrist Breakers then it was this small little funny thing
that I made. It's just small game.
How is it called? Blood Moon Apocalypse which is
my little zombie survival. Just a mini game.
It's not really arrow in RPG even.
And then I suppose you can count across across 1000 Dead World
which is now officially released and available even though we are
still finalizing the OR actually have to start with the US and
Canada and and well in Latin America fulfillment and then
it's actually yeah it's going to be great once it's everybody
gets their book yeah world rulers ascendant and and then
they under ash and skies and now turn to fellas so yeah I don't
know. Yeah, a few things.
That's seven. That's seven games.
Yeah, in between there's been a couple of expansions and other
things too. For yeah, for sacrifice.
For broken Shoe. Steamer born, Yeah.
Like the. Yeah.
So I mean, yeah, 7 plus, yeah, you're like not quite five or
six actually more but but I mean jumping real quick to across the
thousand net worlds, I'm excited for this Hunter study scatter
for it and one of the reasons is because you you showed it to us
before the stream started. So do you have that that book
sitting right there with that? I have this is the the Murgo
edition which is the like our Deluxe edition which is limited
to Kickstarter. Even though I have a few like a
dozen copies left which I will sooner or later put for sale up
for sale. Once we know for sure everybody
got their their books and everybody's happy with them,
we'll have a few of these rare artifacts for sale.
So yeah it's a pretty neat edition.
It has well all editions come with the with the tokens tokens
and then they also come with with a bunch of maps which are
inside. Even though this edition comes
with more the normal edition comes with six.
This one comes with 12 of them and and this edition also comes
with this with the like a quick reference with all the all the
stuff and then that. Is that one?
Folder with with different character sheets and ships
sheets. I don't stuff to to help you
keep track of everything is. That one, The Mergo edition.
Yeah, this is the Mergo edition. That's what I got.
OK, I'll just double check a second.
Can I get that one? Yeah, I did.
Cool. Yeah, and then the the book is
the same in both editions because it's just fucking
gorgeous. It's just absolutely incredible
Art with art by Will, which is, I don't know, it's just a
beautiful book. It it sucks that the original
designer walked us over and and and left the project hanging for
a year, but even even though he made a absolutely gorgeous book,
it's just ridiculous. It's absolutely beautiful.
So it sucks both on a personal level and professional level
that he didn't finish the the race with us and we have to
scramble in and grab Glenn seals help, which is always saving my
ass for one reason or another. He's always there to help.
So yeah, he finalized it. He made it.
He really helped us out. He stopped everything to help us
out with this and well, it's done finally.
So I'm very, very happy. Because the original estimate
delivery was. A year ago.
Yeah, it was about a year ago, right.
OK. Well, hey, you know, I mean, you
did it so. Yeah, I know about it.
But it sucks because it was like, OK, the game is done, it's
been to play, tested, everything is done except layout.
How long do you need to finish the layout?
Three months. OK, let's say 6 to be safe.
And then I we added the extra time and still it was six months
plus another year for him. So it was, yeah.
A year and a half. Two years working on this one.
Yes. OK.
Was just one person that he's he was supposed to be a
professional. He's was supposed to know what
he was doing. And then then life gets in the
way. He had a lot of personal
problems. He and he disappear.
He just fucking disappear. Oh yeah.
And what I mean. But the book turned out great.
Book turns gorgeous, yeah. And, you know, hey, at least you
got that like a lot of people, kind of, you know, a lot of
people would have given up in that situation.
They're like way to fight through.
I mean, I. Still it wasn't It wasn't even
in the a few things I I didn't even consider dropping it
because I it's just if I said I'm doing it, I'm doing it.
If it cost me many, many thousands more than I expected.
I had to put a lot of my own personal money into this because
yeah, you see the the kickstart and it was like, Oh my God, so
much money and then prices start to increase.
We had to pay more people than we initially thought we will
have to pay. I mean it's just the year of
delay really screwed us over completely because it was when
right when the paper prices were was going up.
Transport has the price of transport is just is nuts right
now. It has risen so much so, I mean
it was all just snowballing and it was like, OK, I'm going to
lose money as well. It has to come out one way or
another. Well, you know, it's funny, not
funny, but it's an interesting thing that popped in my head
before because I had always had this question that I never asked
you. Just like because you put most
of your stuff out on on print on demand from, from drive through.
And I don't remember. I we, we talked about it after
someone said something at some point about printing stuff and
you're like, but it won't come to Europe.
And I was like, wait, I don't understand why.
And you were like and then it basically came out like because
if you do print on demand, they have print on demand over there.
But if you print only in America, you have to ship across
the sea. And that in my head I instantly
thought of you And I was like, oh, that's why Alex always puts
his stuff on POD. It's much more accessible to the
rest of the world when you have POD.
And then you don't have to worry about transportation prices, you
don't have to worry about paper prices.
So it just, I don't know, it's just an interesting thing that
popped in my head where I was like, that makes so much sense
for Europe and South American stuff because drive through has
printing presses kind of like all over the world, right?
Yeah, no, yeah. And then how things are are
going with shipping just becoming demented.
I mean it's just with between Brexit, between the European
Union close and even more all the export import laws, the
United States also fucking around.
It's just it's becoming absolutely hostile to small
publishers. So I was actually talking about
this with the guys from against Dark Master, the the Italian
guys which are also now in in the middle of fulfillment.
And they're also saying that this is just for example they
directly they don't sell. They are incapable of selling to
UK because the UK authorities they've been trying for two
years to get some tax identification number and they
can't get it. So they have that whole market
that they cannot sell to. And it's just like that that's
just a small example it's it's it's like that for everybody
it's and and of course from a from a customer point of view
it's absolutely nuts the amount of money that it costs to to in
between tax import taxes that you have to pay between the
shipping itself. I mean I used to a few years ago
I used to buy Zenes from United States all the time, all the
time especially during Zenquest. I mean it was just all the time
and OK well you will pay the whatever the price of the of the
scene, maybe 10 bucks extra for the shipping and that's it.
Now now between the shipping which is like at least 20 and
then the customs which is just doesn't go below 1415 US extra.
I end up paying for a scene 2-3 times its original price.
So it's like OK, I can't order from from the United States
anymore and the the opposite happens of course people from
the United States buying from from Europe is just nuts.
So it's just becoming very, very difficult and in print on demand
even though the quality is definitely, I don't think it
will ever reach the the level of of something like this.
I mean, offset printing is just superior.
This absolutely gorgeous. Really a lot better than it used
to be though, like those pronounsman books I get, I've
gotten more recently from drive through.
I'm like, oh, this is like, this is pretty.
Good. And Lulu is even better.
But yeah, drive through RPG. They are getting their shit
together and it's pretty good. The worst, at least in Europe.
The worst is Amazon for sure. The quality of Amazon is like
toilet paper. Terrible.
Not shocked by that. And the and the cotting and
everything. I mean, I you get books, It's
like, seriously, just what the fuck did you do with the covers?
It's just cotton. I can show you some books.
Like it's like, really. I mean the covers is like this
and then the book inside is is what the fuck, What do we do
with all this extra cover. So yeah it's it's sterile.
But yeah, drive through RPG they are starting to get quite nice
quality, especially cards for example.
The cards are amazing. Oh perfect.
The cards in RPG, they are like like any board game quality any.
Yeah, they're very good. The car has been good for a
while. I remember back when like
Phillip Reed put out a bunch of cards with from workbook stuff.
They were they were really good. But the thing about the drive
through printing, the covers are always very shiny and that's the
only thing because the interiors are really nice.
I did like the Lulu though, like I got the the marshes thick.
It has like a nice texture like matte cover that if if if if
drive through got to a a cover like this I'd I'd screw it just
to drive through every time because this is a really nice
quality book. But Lulu, Lulu does some good
stuff as well. So that's.
Actually, really good stuff. Yeah definitely.
So yeah in the future I'm I'm definitely my my goal is I mean
the campaign now with Kernethalas was a little bit of
an experiment to see if it works and I think that's the direction
I'm going to take which is a hybrid thing.
The core campaign is going to be fulfilled by Print on Demand and
Drive through RPG. And then for those who want
something nicer, a bit of more deluxe quality, I will work with
the the small print I I've been working well, the I have them up
there. That's why I'm looking there.
The the books I I put out my my own edition of Disciple Bonus
and Shadow, the Warlick edition. Yeah, I guess you have them
around there. Yeah, I was going.
To grab it when I'm not. Getting out, yeah.
So I'm, I'm working with those those people again for this, for
carne asada. So you can expect that level of
quality and I think that's what I'm going to be doing moving
forward. I'm going to be releasing print
on demand and if you want something a bit fancier, you
have the option of a very limited edition that you know
it's going to be more expensive, but also it's going to look
fucking amazing. So yeah, that's that's the
feature for me, at least for the time being.
We recently had the forgotten some guys on SPI and environment
and they a similar kind of thing.
Like the book is all gonna be put out but like all the add-ons
are gonna be after they said instead of basically trying to
like put all these pieces together it made a lot more
sense to just like get the book out and then buy add-ons after.
And I think crowdfunding in general should really kind of
think about taking that approach where if you can get the primary
thing out and into peoples hands as opposed to a lot of projects
will be like we have the book ready but we got to wait like 6
more months for the box and like 6 more months for all the
pieces. As opposed to just being like we
have the book ready, we're going to send you the book.
And if you want a box or if you want an add on or you want a
special edition, just hit up the store after or we'll make like a
very small tier for it or not. That just seems, especially with
prices kind of going crazy, that seems to be much more reliable
way to do things. Yeah.
I think it's important to have that flexibility, especially for
the customers. So I mean, the more options you
have for the customers and I'm a customer above everything, I
mean, I spend hundreds every month on RPGs.
So yeah. Right there with you, man.
Yeah, everyone looks at Ryan. What do you mean?
I don't, but but you're Speaking of your games.
So last time you heard you talked about sacrifice and you
put out some big games. Since then, let's just talk
about maybe not specifics until we get to some of the later
ones, but just your games in general.
Like, I feel like, you know, you have a theme to a lot of your
stuff. It's dark, it's it's gruesome.
A lot of it's like solo or or solo Co-op.
A lot of it has. A a very kind of like old
schoolish vibe to it. Like what what would you kind of
describe as like your style, I guess in RPGs?
Yeah, definitely dark fantasy for sure.
I usually like to throw. Most of the time it's a bit of
survival elements because I like that trying to fight against the
elements and I don't know try to survive in whatever whatever the
game or the style. I always had a little bit of of
survival elements and and solo it's, it's always a core element
even even for example something like sacrifice which the first
version I released didn't have any.
It was quite solo friendly because I just can't help it.
I always had a lot of tables and spark of of my thing.
But even that first incarnation that didn't have solo rules.
I immediately after the first thing I did was release all the
rules because I just I play most of the times I'm even though I
play with friends online and all that.
Lately we don't meet for anything but online we still
play and most of my gaming it's it's done by myself So yeah it's
just it's it's my thing solo solo gaming.
But yes, my I know maybe I'm a bit boring with always dark
fantasy and green dark and it's just, but it's just.
I mean it's been I'm into it since I'm I'm a child basically
for hammers and all that stuff. I've been playing that kind of
thing since I'm 12. So, yeah, so listen.
That's not going anywhere if you.
Can do a. Thing.
Well, you know, I mean, I don't think it's boring.
I think it's like it's your thing, you know?
I mean, listen, I. Don't know if you're making.
Edge Lord. Grim dark stuff.
You have a forever customer from, you know, Ryan, so.
You know, yeah, I'm definitely the edge Lord here on the show.
Listen, Hunter, you you you get that deep edge Lord streak in
you too, buddy. Listen.
I'm all butterflies and rainbows and stuff, so I don't want to
hear it. Yeah, it's just it's my interest
has always been in all senses, always in the music and
aesthetics, everything, everything.
It's always been darker stuff. So I'm too old now to change.
I hear that. Yeah, absolutely.
I feel like every time I come on stream, I see like another
another Gray popping through. So I'm right there with you.
But but more specifically since, yeah, Hunter, just nothing but
Gray. It's right there.
The full lush. The full lush Gray.
You know, been called him a silver fox for a couple years
now. But specifically about some of
your some of your games after Sacrifice, you said the first
one. What was the first one after
that one? It wasn't Rift Breakers, was it?
No, no, it was. Broken Shores.
Yeah. More.
More game. Dark.
Broken. Shores Yeah.
Why don't we just go to some specifics about some of the
games. So for for those that maybe are
listening for to the first time, that might not have a lot of
games from Black Oath, like I guess let's just let's pitch.
I don't know maybe not all seven games that you've done but a
couple like which which one? Is there anyone that you've done
in the past like 15 months where you're like that?
That's I fucking did the shit out of that one.
That way, if someone's gonna read like one book in the last
15 months that I did like, which one do you think you'd pick
well? Aside from across 1000 worlds,
Yeah, we'll get to that one. Yeah, we'll get to that one.
It's on the list. I don't know.
I guess Rift Breakers I I really, even though that one.
It's my basically my only game that is not dark fantasy.
So some people stay still saved or think that it is dark, but I
just don't see it. I mean, that's my my pure, most
hard attempt at not making some. I'm making traditional, just
standard fantasy, at least with the setting, because my goal
with with Rib Breakers was to basically take the type of game
that you'll have in an MMO like World of Warcraft or The Elder
Scrolls Online, all all these kind of games that I always
played and I adored, and translating all those mechanics
into a into a tabletop RPG. So you have your all the usual
trappings of a randomly generated loot, randomly
generated dungeons. Well, they're not really
dungeons, but they are dungeons, and everything's a dungeon.
You know, yeah, I mean. Yeah, basically.
They're open, open areas, but they work like dungeons and the
the grinding, the levels and the crafting.
I don't know all the typical anything you can think of in
World Warcraft that you can do, you can do in this game.
So I'm particularly happy with how the the character
progression, which is for me one of the pillars of my my games,
one of the reasons I put the RPGs character progression.
I just, I just love it. I I mean, if a game doesn't have
the promise of getting stronger, I mean, yeah, for one shot or
something like, well, I guess it's fun for one shots.
But there's another reason why I don't play one shots.
Because there's no character, yeah.
There's not a lot of progression when you're dropping off after
that. Yeah, so for me, and you can see
it in my games, when I'm making a new game, it's like, OK, how
can I make this game to be played basically infinitely?
Because I just, I like that no ceiling type of of game of game
style or at least for a very long time in that you will
always be getting new things. So I think I did it pretty well.
In Rift Breakers you have a set of, I call them hearts which are
kind of subclasses or classes, but you you can have four at a
time so you can and each heart has 20 different abilities which
work a little bit like in Dense Dragons.
The 4th edition you have like at will and then pair encounter and
and daily. They are called differently in
my game, but they are essentially that, so you can
then mix and match. So maybe you take the Bastion
Heart which is all for tanking, stanking abilities.
Or you take the Shadow heart and it's all more rogue stabby stuff
or the arcanist stuff which is all high level magic rituals and
all. So you can combine four of those
and make your own a completely customized character.
So I thought that I think is pretty cool.
And then combined with the each monster I I I went completely
nuts there. 11 patron one. One of my patrons said I I
finished breakfast. Sorry broken shores.
So it's it's a cool game but it the BCR is too small.
So yeah, it's too small. OK, let's wait for the next one.
So I went all in and I made it's it's almost 100 different
monsters. But The thing is that each
monster has its own table of actions.
You know, like in like the enemies in Forbidden Lands, the
the normal ones know the big ones which have your role to see
what they do. Well, every monster in the game
has that. And then they also have the each
one of them has their own loot table.
So it was I it was like 80% of the time I spent working on that
game was spent on the peace theory.
It's just, I don't know, it must be like over 100 pages of the
book. It's just your enemies to deal
with. So yeah, those two things,
that's. Pretty impressive.
You're like, yeah, you know what?
You're right. It's not big enough.
Here's a whole book. Yeah, it was basically.
That Yeah so I think in in that sense the game is quite
innovative that you have a lot of things to do and and well it
shows people have have really been playing it a lot.
I get a lot of feedback from it actually I've been I got so much
feedback from it that I I ended up like OK I this guys are right
I need to I need to change all these things and I ended up just
releasing a re uploading all the files for print on the man and I
I had to revamp a lot of things for example I ended up changing
come back to make it a little bit faster and I don't know I I
so that's important to me also to adapt to the which is good
with with another positive point of print on demand because you
can react to feedback like that you can incorporate not only not
only the PDF which is I mean role-playing are reaching that
point where they're almost like video games you just have patch
notes all the time and I have a change log in all my games it's
like OK I changed all this this is a change log for the PDF and
then when all the changes reach a critical mass where it reaches
that point where it's like OK there's so many changes I just
upload a new version for print on demand and and that's it So I
that's the the benefit of having on print on demand that I can be
updating the game and you are you know that you're going to
have if not almost but. I mean and all the time, almost
all the time, the last version with all the changes there.
Of course the process of updating it, it takes a while
because I need to up upload it and before uploading it since
I'm not the one doing all the files because the that's a pain
and he has the specifications for drive through RPG and for
Amazon is a bit annoying. So it's clean.
That's it for me. So I have to tell him, OK here's
a new version please can you update it?
He sends it to me, then I upload it to the website.
Then I have to wait for them to approve it, which is usually 1-2
weeks and I have to wait for the books to arrive to to me so the
proves so I can approve them and then the book can be back in
sale. So yeah it takes like about a
month to update the the files and that's why I don't do it a
lot. But yeah, the possibility, I
mean, it's only the fact that the possibility exists is just
amazing. I've never.
Thought about the fact that, like, yeah, I guess with print
on demand, like, yeah, you could just, like, switch out an
updated file. Yeah, just like a video game.
That's really clever. I mean, when you say I'm like,
Oh yeah, that seems very obvious.
But I've never thought about the fact that like, yeah, you can,
like, update your game without releasing 2E or whatever.
Yeah. Exactly.
Huh. Very.
Interesting for. Example you go now.
You you purchase Ruth Rakers and I'm on version one point 6.5,
which sounds like a video game. Yeah, here's some patch notes we
may have fix the ability of it, you know exactly.
Which actually is very, very on the theme with the game because
the I made it to look like a video game.
It even has a tutorial. You play while you're playing
your, you're making your character, you're playing
through the tutorial area of the game.
So yeah, it's very video gaming. So the the fact that it has
patch notes, it's just perfect, yeah.
It's amazingly well, yeah. So.
After that, or I guess I mean we're getting around to because
you already had it in your hands like 1000 across, 1000 Dead
Worlds is the one that's like finally coming out.
It's it's as far as I know for right now, it's the biggest
thing that you've kind of done for it and it's different than
what we were talking about as far as all of these grim, dark
settings. I guess it's grim dark, but it's
space. What made you want to switch
from? Kind of like the grim dark
dungeon crawly stuff to go to like space horror?
Well, actually I'm for the most part I've always preferred, I
mean science fiction to fantasy, even though lately I'm in a
hardcore fantasy kick. I'm just playing fantasy,
fantasy and that's it. But I was always more fan of
fantasy than than anything else. And and I read, I mean, sorry
science fiction and I read a lot crazy amount of science fiction.
Always, always, always So. More than fantasy I would say.
So it was just natural for me to to want to to make something
like that. Especially I think we I
mentioned it several times and this is a game that is strongly
influenced if not complete rip off Predict Paul's Gateway book
which is an absolute masterpiece and I always wanted to make a a
game based on it. But of course, I wanted to also
incorporate my personal preferences, which is a bit of
darker stuff, a bit of horror alien kind of things.
So yeah, that's how that's how it came by.
I just, I really love fantasy. It's it's also from a solo
perspective, it's more intimidating, at least for me.
For example, it's very difficult for me to play science fiction
games solo because since you have a whole fucking Galaxy of
possibilities, it's always is more difficult for me to narrow
it down. I know you can do it, of course
and and that's why I I that's what I tried to do with across
1000 Dead Worlds I the starting point is very focused and very
narrow. You have your crew and you're
just going to be exploring this site or this planet and then
once that's done you come back to your starting point.
So in that way it's a little bit like a video game as well.
So it's like you go all out on missions and it's you go there,
it's done and you come back. It's it's not on rails because
things can go very bad in the moment, right?
Even even even the possibility of arriving and and and dying
because you arriving, there's only a 2% chance of that
happening. But yeah, the the arrival pay
will it contemplates the possibility of your arriving?
And since you are using spaceships that we're built
hundreds of thousands of years ago, maybe the solar has gone
supernova, the the sun has gone supernova, and you arrive in,
you're dead, or you arrive to a black hole that wasn't there
before or so, yeah, there's a little bit small chance that you
arrive in you're dead. That's.
Awesome, though, yeah, that would be like.
Yeah, my God. It's it's pretty funny too,
because it's amazing because you part of the tension of the game
comes from the fact that you don't know if you're going to
arrive to a place that has something for you to to benefit
from. You don't know how long it takes
to get there and that you're trapped in that situation.
Unless you go alone which is then you, Then you have another
set of problems but you're trapped there with a bunch of
other people that they are all going to have their their own
personal problems and they start to leak out during the that
time, that travel time that you spend.
I mean it it's at least a week, it's in on average.
So in my experience it's at least 3-4 weeks.
So each week you have a chance of something happening and this
can be something malfunctioning or somebody having a breakdown
and and that of course effects to the other because there's a
stress system in in the game and things escalate pretty fast
because when one start one person oh look my dog decides to
come here. When one.
Person starts to have a bit of a mental breakdown.
Of course the other ones are to to to get nervous as well, so it
can snowball pretty quickly. So imagine you get over all that
stuff you managed to to take the the situation and to to, I mean
not allowed to escalate and then you arrive.
It's like, OK, we're exiting A warp space, we're entering into
normal space. Where are we?
And then you die. So.
So it's pretty, yeah, I mean some people have said what's the
point of that? I mean some people are pissed
off. I remember the comments and all
that. It's like I don't understand the
point of possibility of dying. And so I just couldn't resist.
It's just it's just too funny. No, it's way too funny.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
And on. Top of that, there's no big deal
because character creation, I mean, you're done and the
characters are done in a second takes in 10 minutes.
You have your character, it's just a couple of roles and
you're done. You get into the mission and you
have all that section of drama in the travel.
Or maybe you're lucky not, maybe nothing happened and then you're
arriving, You're dead. It's just it's so amazing.
Session zero. At least for the for a group or
solo, it's just very fun. Yeah, I don't know.
Some people get mad. I love that stuff.
Like in 12 years you can just die in character creation.
Like, you could literally just, like not even get out of it.
Like, I think that cracks me up. And I did once.
It was great. I was like, well, fuck, I guess,
sorry. Next.
Page. Let's start again.
Like, that's great, people. Of since Traveler did it in the
70s, it's it's a staple of role-playing games.
You can die in character creation.
Well, you can die a little bit after character creation.
It's fine. I just think that.
If I was playing a game and we were like went through the whole
thing, we're traveling and we're all like getting excited, then
we shut up. We died.
I would. I would bust that last thing.
Yeah. Yeah.
I I don't know. I think it takes like a certain,
you have to have that really like that very OSR Ish mindset
about like him. We just die all the time at this
table, you know? Yeah, yeah.
I guess, I guess it depends on the table, of course, like
everything. But at least in in my experience
and with my friends and all that, it's you die.
It's like, OK, well, I'll roll up a new character that happens.
Just you just laugh about it. You talk about it for a.
Few especially. If it's something epic like this
is just a funny story that I remember when we all died after
arguing for a week and we almost killed each other, and then
finally we we decided to to bury the hatchet and when we just
died. It's just a funny story, yeah.
Yeah, it's definitely it's. Definitely a different mindset,
you know, for, for for players like in that, like if you see
the whole thing as the game and the journey as the game and all
of it as the game, it's totally different.
Like when you die versus it's not really the game until you
get like the combat or something like thought, you know, it's
just a different thing, you know, So I mean, character
creation's the game, so if you die like Oh well, you know, so.
The other. Project.
Well, not the other the project you have going on right now as
well. Kernel thalis tell us that what
is, what is, what's what's the pitch, what do we got going on
with that right now? Yeah.
So yeah, as you said, it's currently funding on Kickstarter
and it's doing pretty well. I'm I'm pretty happy with it.
And the idea behind Karen Asalas was basically to make the
ultimate dungeon crawler. I went back to basics.
It's very it has a very narrow focus.
So it's you're not he's decided to, so it's attention.
Time dude. Yeah, yeah, he.
Decided that he has to be here. So yeah, with Kerneth, alas,
it's it's really a solo game. I mean, you can play a Co-op,
but this is you. I will.
Some people maybe wouldn't even consider it a real RPG because I
don't think you can play with a dungeon master or something like
that. Oh, I mean, you could, but.
It will be a bit boring I suppose, for the dungeon Master,
because it's like I said, it's a very narrow focus.
It's the whole thing, the, the, the, the the reason for for you
to be in the dungeon is basically that you you've been
executed or supposedly executed because somehow you survive and
you wake up in a pile of corpses and you with of course the wound
of being hanged. You are fucked up.
I mean your character starts with with less health points.
There's a sanity system of course because it's a horror
dungeon crawler game. So yeah, you you are fucked both
mentally and physically. No weapons, no anything and you
just have to it's like OK, where the fuck am I?
Oh yes, they threw me where they throw all the corpses, which is
the big necropolis under the city.
So your your point is to survive and try to find out a way out of
of that mess. So you just discuss, I really I
call it a dungeon survival game more than dungeon crawling game
because I try to go to a little bit more towards that unexplored
area when it comes to dungeon crawling games.
Because I think it hasn't been done, at least in this kind of
more focused game, which my references for it will be
something like four against Darkness or 12 years.
The 100 dungeon. Those kind of games which are,
yeah, you just go into the dungeon and you go and kill the
monsters and get out. Well here is you are fucked.
You don't have anything. You have to come out and
survive. And of course there's a big
inspiration. Diablo, of course.
I mean it's just you have all the randomly generated dungeons
in that same kind of style. A big focus on undead and and
demonic stuff and and huge system for randomly generating
all the items you find all the all the magic items are all
randomly generated and on top of that I'm very happy with the
system because it's super. I mean you literally take three
dice and and there you have a massive magic item tailor for
the for the occasion and and the possibilities.
I mean literally endless the amount of magic items you can
make with with that. So yeah I think the the the cool
thing about the game is that it's Daniel's survival because
like OK you are in an hostile place.
The Danjon is not at this cave system or no no this is a
hostile place. It used to be the capital of a
gigantic necromantic empire that ruled the area thousands of
years ago. They it's just all their all the
all their undead, all their creations are buried down there,
maybe even some of the original inhabitants of that empire.
And you have to survive. So you want to sleep, you want
to rest. OK, then you better make sure
you barricade that room and that you spend all resources that
you've been collecting, all all the garbage you've been
collecting. You better close up all those
doors and exits and entrances. You better craft your gear
properly, repair all your stuff, craft craft torches, cook some
stuff from all the weird mushrooms you found so you can
eat something. I mean it's it has that element
of survival and I think it makes it quite fun and intense.
It's very important also to know when you have to stop to to set
camp and and to to rest, because there's this exhaustion system
that the more you push it, the more dangerous it is that's
stopping consumers resources. Maybe you don't have enough to
make a proper camp and to barricade yourself.
So maybe you're sleeping and then suddenly Masters bursting
into your camp and you have a fight.
So yeah, I think it's fun. I had a lot of fun both writing
it and playing it, and people seem to have fun with it, so I'm
very excited about it. Super stoked.
For it. It's funny cuz a few days ago
actually, Ryan pitched me his idea for a game, which is like,
almost exactly. Yeah, we talked.
About it, you know, I was like, this is very funny because
current palace is the same. Like, damn it.
But I do like the. Whole flip dungeon crawl where
it's like you're not entering a place like you're you're trying
to leave, you know you're trying to get out of here and it's a
completely hostile area and you have nothing.
You only have what you find. Good luck.
You know, it sounds like a lot of fun.
I'm really excited. It's going to be like it's solo
and Co-op, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm stoked for that.
That sounds really cool. Make my girlfriend play it with
me so for. Two players is absolutely
perfect. Awesome.
It's a good balance for two players.
Yeah, the game scales to to two players very nicely.
So yeah, yeah, it's fine. And then for those there.
You have a quick start on the page, which is great.
The there's some interesting parts to it too, which really,
you know, it kind of clues you in the way the system works.
Even bit masteries are are kind of classes, right?
And there's twenty of them. There's twenty of them.
It's a lot of stuff you can be, yeah.
I I had a lot of fun. Like I said, for me character
progression is crucial in the game and and I always go all in.
I mean with oh oh so it's you have 20 masteries you start it's
cutting or can you hear me? Oh yeah, down for a. 2nd But
you're back. We're good.
We're back. Yeah, so.
Yeah, you have 20 masteries. You start with picking two.
Each mastery has five different skills like tiers of skills and
and gives you also a passive ability.
So you basically when you start that new character, you start
with two passive abilities and two active abilities and and
each time you level up you gain one point which you can spend in
either one of your masteries. But The thing is that there's
you can get a third mastery through gear.
If you find an amulet, amulets have a random mastery.
So you have your two fixed masteries but you have a third
one that which you can be swapping depending on if you're
lucky and find several amulets which I did with my place we
actually it's like OK in this section I'm going to be using
dismal it because this is is this type of enemies and and of
course the the dungeon or Necropolis or Cairnethallas
itself. I divided it into sections so
it's section is ruled by an overseer which will be like this
boss of like Diablo. You have this big boss governing
a whole section and depending on which boss it is it, it gives
like a different boost to all the enemies in that section.
So you have the option of going to try to find straight the
straight against the the overseer so the rest of the
section is easier because the enemies will be less buffed.
Or you can if the enemy the the overseer the big boss.
If you see it's just something you you can't deal with, you can
ignore it and try to find the exit of that section and move on
to to the next one. You can always go back to to the
previous one if you want to. So yeah, if you are lucky you
will find a Mastery amulet in each different section and it
gives you that extra flexibility when it comes to building your
character. Yeah, it's a fun system.
I'm. Really excited for that.
Not only that I know, I don't know how much this has gone out
of Patreon, so I'll let you talk about it if if it leads to the
conversation. Skills are a big thing in this
as opposed to cause like there's there's stats right?
But some of your skills a lot of people put as like attributes
and other ones cause your attributes are a little bit
different in this. But skills are pretty heavy and
you've been talking about like kind of a skill thing as well.
So what? What made you kind of like wanna
make the like this bigger list of skills and things that dig
into that and then maybe something that has come out
along that as well. Like what what what what's your
what was the impetus for that? Yeah, so as you know, I'm
usually the the crunchy guy. I mean, I'm role masters.
My Bible is the best game ever made.
And yeah, I just want to say. Just the GM.
Just the screen for Role Master is five times bigger than most
games that I play. And that's just the screen, not
the book. So I I yeah, it's the crunchy
guy is a bit of an understatement.
Yeah, I. Just I especially as a solo
player. I I personally believe that it's
easier to solo games when you have this big support system and
you don't have to be stopping all the time to think, OK this
is very big. If I'm if I were the GM why
would I do How do I interpret this?
No, I I like that it's very clear that you don't have to put
your GM hat all the time and it breaks in merchant that way.
If you know if if all the procedures are detailed in the
book. I think it helps for me at least
as a solo player. That's why I don't like Powered
by the Apocalypse games, because they're just too vague as a as a
as a solo player, me as a player at somebody else's table.
I I play anything but me as AGM or as a solo player.
I just, I need crunch. If it's too light as AGM, that
means I have to house rule a lot, I have to make a lot of
content for it. And then at one point it's
always like, OK, why am I making content for this game instead of
making it for my own games? So and and as a solo player if I
have to be I remember playing everybody as a solo player
everybody has played I don't sworn I suppose so I remember
having to play it all it stop all the time.
It's like OK this which move should I choose.
I have all this list this one is too vague this one is and with
skills it's like OK I'm want I want to smell what is perception
they're done. So it's it's much faster for me
if you have a list of skills and it's it's just more concrete.
So I have that natural tendency of moving away from vagueness of
abilities, like the ability score.
So I know a lot of games just use ability scores and that's it
and and no skills and it works. But me personally, I like things
to be a little bit more defined. I like things to be more
concrete. I have to think less.
I just look at the sheet of paper and it's there and I can
focus on the story and the story moves so long without me having
to be thinking about the engine behind the story.
But that's that's just me. Of course.
I mean, everybody plays differently, every table is
different. I mean, it's that's just what
works for me as a player and therefore that's what I do as a
designer. So lately I've been slowly but
surely moving away from attributes and abilities, scores
and all that and more only into skills.
So Kurt and Thallis is my first game that it doesn't have any
ability to score. So it's just a list of skills.
You have the basic attributes of health and sanity and but you
can't call those abilities the ability scores.
They're just like something else.
Everybody got tracks. Oh.
Yes. You know, yeah.
Whatever you. Want to call it or either, which
is your mana points. So yeah, but for for everything
else you have your list of skills.
It's AD 100 based system. It's if you play called Hulu or
any BRP game, you're going to be right at home because it's
greatly inspired by that system which is after Role Master.
For me, BRP is the best rule set ever created.
Well, if I mean Objective BRP is actually the best rule set ever
created. Role Master is too clunky many
times, but it has the best scripts in the history of
gaming. So that's why for me it's #1,
but well, that's beyond the point.
So yeah, I've been moving more towards skill based systems
because it's what I enjoy and and I think they work well also
for newcomers, which was one of my design goals with Karna Salas
making a game that will be easy to grasp for people who never
played solo games. So I think big part of that is
that percentages is something that everybody understands and
if you see on your piece of paper that says OK, I have a 60%
chance of jumping or whatever, OK, you know that if you have
60% chance to roll D100 if it's less than 60 it's a success,
it's I mean it's doesn't get it, any person understands that.
So having that list of just skills and not having to add
anything or this goal, this Difficulty Class or I mean all
those things that can model the Waddles a little bit for for
newcomers I think is very intuitive.
You just see it OK here 60% shooting, 40% whatever.
I mean it's everybody understands that it's very
straight to the point. And yeah, and I like it, it's
and so since I like it, that's why.
Yeah. I just make.
Interesting. I would want to play, yeah.
Well, I mean. I hope that people would.
I mean, I would not put time into a game that I wouldn't want
to play. But it's also interesting
hearing you say that because that's something I hadn't
thought about either. Like I know, like thinking of
your games, I'm like in my head, I'm like they're going to be
dark with super metal art and a lot of crunch.
So I didn't really think about like, why to an extent.
And and I've been a fan of yours for longer than like the last 15
months when the first time we talked, it never really looked
into my head that the solo play and kind of like what you need
to really help solo, which if I'm playing by myself, obviously
I want to be able for things to just tell me what's going on.
I don't wanna make it up on my own.
That's kind of leads into solo journaling and I like solo
adventure kind of the same issue that having that more crunch
really just helps a little bit more.
And that's why even in your kind of like not solo or or the ones
that are Co-op friendly games, the crunch is still there
because it's just the style you have because that's how you
generally play and and and make the solo stuff.
That's just an interesting kind of enlightenment to hear about.
And it kind of like I don't know changes like how not how I think
about our games, but like how I like perceive the games a little
bit. It's like that.
That's why this is. This is why this exists this
way. Yeah, exactly.
And that's why they are always full of tables.
Also I I always make all the games and from the perspective
of a solo player and and the way I play solo games of course.
So that influences everything. I I make and and write.
I always had a lot of tables all the generators I can think of
and and the all the procedures and and detailing them as much
as I can to make it easier. Of course that's still work in
progress. Many times I don't.
I I I made. I make it too combulated or I
just don't explain things as they should or assume a lot of
things that I have the tendency of assuming that people play
games or read games this way I do.
Which is like if I don't like something or I understand, I
understand it perfectly clear the first time or it's vague.
I I homebrew it. I do it my way and a lot of
people don't play that way. I've I've learning the hard way.
A lot of people want things very very very very yeah, yeah, and
very concise and very clearly explained and nothing open to
interpretation. So I have to listen.
I have to. There's a lot of people.
That just want to be told what to do and how to think, you
know? Yeah, yeah.
So I'm not talking about TP. RBDS, but anyway.
Yeah. So 1000 Dead Worlds Across the
Thousand Dead Worlds is on the on the Ocean and in in the post
and all that stuff. Already it's in the truck.
In the truck, It's in the truck. Kerneth Hollis is on Kickstarter
right now. What's the next thing?
What? What's what's What's coming next
from Blackout Entertainment? Well.
Very, very soon I'll be releasing.
Speaking of all this skill based stuff, which is my has been my
tendency, the other day I once again I start to play Dungeon
Girl Classics which is one of the best games ever made and
like every time I sit you're like I want I want slow.
Chat, yeah. I think it's amazing and it has
the best magic rules ever. I mean, it's just brilliant
overall. But the problem I always have
with it is that it doesn't have skills.
And I'm reaching that point where if it doesn't have skills
I can play it and each time I sit to play Dungeon crawl
classics I played a couple of sessions and there's like OK
let's just add skills and each time I play I add that new skill
system and and I I just keep adding rules and so I have all
these home rules and systems and and ideas to turn non skill
based D20 systems into skill based.
So that's what I'm going to release I I created a a new
engine which I'm calling skill 20 and it's a way of translating
games like Dungeon called crowd classics but it works with any
OSR ability based system to translate it into a skill only
rule set so I'll be publishing that this week more probably.
Maybe. Yeah during the weekend maybe
Monday at most. I'm I finished it writing today
actually I I started a little bit with layout and it's it
should be I of course I end up always adding a little bit more
than I intend so I was thinking OK I this is going to be 20
pages that's and I think it's going to be more like 50-60 but
I'm putting it up for free. I'll put it all over for free
and then I'm hoping to get more feedback from it.
I'm hoping people like it and make stuff with it.
And based on this I'm going to write my own game which I've
been writing down notes for it for months Want to make
something. I'm not usually a fan of science
fantasy but I just I have the urge lately to make something in
that vein. So I've been writing down notes
for it for at least 3-4 months. I have a few pages of notes
already for a setting. And yeah, I'm going to be using
this kill 20 rule set, right? So you can expect D20 base
rules. The I mean the traditional thing
that everybody who's playing Dungeons and Dragons knows the
D20 plus modifier and they're the target number or the 50
class and that's it. So this is the same, It's just
instead of using ability scores, you're just skills.
Just skills. That's it.
So I love. Science fantasy.
So yeah. Not the only for me.
I'm grim, dark, dark fantasy. You're definitely science
fantasy. And then we'll crossover
sometimes. So we're good.
Yeah. That's what I was trying to get
into the skill thing. I I never remember like what I
saw on Twitter versus what I saw on Patreon versus what I saw,
where I saw. I was like, is this something
that we're supposed to not talk about yet.
So I'm glad that that that's what came through.
Yeah, so. That's going to be done then.
I have Under Russian Skies, which is our previous
Kickstarter, the game I finished with Alan Barr.
Well, he finished it actually, because otherwise it wouldn't
have seen the light of day. Because I I started working on
it years and years ago. I got stuck.
I just couldn't finish it. And Alan came to the rescue.
He finished it. The Kickstarter was a success.
And it's it's done. We're now just waiting for the
art. Which Leo from LFOSR.
He's he's doing it. So yeah, and it should be done.
It should be out next month on Drive to RPGI, I suppose.
And then, well, I don't know a bunch of other a lot of
different projects I have in in the works.
That's usual #2. The second issue of Demonic
should be out next month. Also should be this month for
patrons and, yeah, next month, I suppose for for everybody else.
And yeah, and I have a lot of things.
Yeah. Yeah.
I feel like I said every time I get a Patreon thing, it's like,
hey, here's an update on something, But here's three more
I'm working on, and as soon as one drops, you get three more.
So Speaking of your Patreon, Speaking of the Skill 20
dropping, like, where are people gonna be able to find these
things? First of all, if you're not a
patron, if we haven't said it enough, this man puts out a lot
of shit. So be a patron and you get all
of this stuff all the time, so I'd highly recommend it.
So where can people find what is your Patreon?
What what is your, how can people find, drive through,
what's your website, all that kind of stuff?
Where can people find all this great stuff?
Yeah. So I guess the easiest thing
will be to go to my hub which is my website.
Just go to blackholtgames.com and there you have links to all
my stuff in drive through RPG. It's dot IO and even Amazon.
You can get them printed on demand on Amazon and then my
patron too, which is the order of the black holes and but if
you go to my website blackhostgames.com, you have
everything there. So yeah, awesome.
Hey. Listen.
Let's not wait 15 months for you to come on the show again, but
thank you so much for for being here, I feel like.
If you came back in a. Month we'd have like 4 more
games to talk about. So it's always it's always nice,
probably because. Right now I'm thinking of a
couple of other games, which I didn't.
So yeah. If you next month, I could
already tell you about three other games which are about to
be published as well. We can leave it for next.
Yeah, we'll do. We'll do it for the.
Next time, but yeah, seriously, thank you so much for coming on.
It's always great talking to you and and you know we we talk a
lot out of here, but it's nice to have you on the show as well.
So so yeah, that's that's our show for today.
You go to blackoathgames.com, find all of Alex's stuff and you
know where our stuff is. It's on the screen, it's in the
liner notes. You can find our link tree at
Link Tree slash the Weekly Scroll and and catch us for our
other stuff. We have something excited coming
tomorrow, but we'll talk about it on our Twitter.
So again, thank you Alex so much for being here.
Thank you everyone for being in chat and everyone out there have
a wonderful day.