Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll podcast.
My Name Is Ryan. And I worship at the altar of
coffee. Blessed be thy brew.
And today we have a special guest with us today that is
Pavel Kickman of Hail Tongue Storytelling.
How are you doing today, Pablo? I'm super well, thank you so
much. Thanks for having me.
And yeah, I'm really happy to to, yeah, have this time with
you today. Yeah, of course.
Thank. You so much for coming on Jinx.
Look at us. We've only done this 170 but but
yeah so for for those out there that might not know you or your
past work like what are, what are some of the things that you
might be known for in the space. I guess the biggest one would be
Korba Borg, which is as you probably figure out, a Korba
Borg. Oh sorry more Borg hack.
Set in a modern times kind of fantasy world where corporations
ruled the world as they do but in the game they are a bit more
explicit about using you know human sacrifice demons and and
whatnot. So that's that's that was kind
of my my first big project that kind of kicked things off but
I've since then I've also kick started Kill Your Necromancer
which is almost ready and the last campaign was for Whispers
of the Woods which is also now kind of work in progress but
it's coming really soon. Yeah, and that looks beautiful.
It does. It does.
So a lot of your a lot of your early work is Mark Borg related
prior to Whispers of the Woods. What about Mark Borg?
Is that the thing that decided that helped you kind of push
into deciding to put stuff out and be a creator?
And if so, why Mark Borg? Well, yeah, definitely.
That was the case. And I think it started like
three years ago when I really started to kind of getting into
tabletop RPGs because I'm one of those people who are not in in
the medium for 40 years or whatever.
I started relatively late in my life, but I was always close to
things like game design, although more on kind of video
game side. I was always close to creative
writing because I wrote comic books and I've done pop culture
journalism for years now. And yeah, and so, so kind of one
of my first encounters with tabletop RPGs was morg pork and
and it's basically I was speechless and I was like whoa,
so you know you can make something like that.
It doesn't have to be D&D. And and what I kind of loved was
not only the style but kind of the minimalism of the rules and
the way kind of the game treats you as someone who can manage
playing the game. Like you don't need to have 300
pages of rules just to kind of play one game.
And and then I fought because at that time I was kind of out of
the kind of comic book business, although it wasn't it was never
a business. It was always kind of.
I was an indie creator with very few commercial things done and
kind of my main job for 780 for, yeah, seven years was kind of
doing corporate work. And at the time I was kind of
looking for something where I can really kind of put my
creativity to. And I thought, yeah, I maybe I
will just start, you know, making things for more work
because, you know, the license is open.
So, so it was a good kind of playground for me.
So I started like 2-3 years ago with little things like a class
or a short adventure or kind of one page, I think.
So I've done a few of those for Mark Borg and for Cyborg when it
came out, which is actually funny because I remember I got
the PDF from the Kickstarter a few months before the physical
release. So I kind of made Two or Three
Atoms before it was kind of commercially available.
Yeah, yes, it can happen sometimes.
And and then I thought, you know, it's maybe a time to think
about a bigger project, but I need a push.
And that push came almost a year ago to.
Yeah. Well, started to the the push
started around a year ago when I was left with without a job
which was I was like, yeah, OK, I didn't really enjoy this, this
role and I thought, you know I deserve more.
So it's OK, I will find something else.
But I didn't because the market was absolutely terrible at the
time. It was so difficult to find
anything, especially because I had very specific set of skills
and I was looking for a very, very specific role.
But I found one. It was then around kind of April
time. So I got an offer.
I was like, yeah, OK, that's that's cool.
And then a few weeks just passed and like, OK, so I, you know, I
would like to sign the offer but I got the call.
Oh sorry Pavel. We are doing kind of recruitment
freeze now so we cannot present you with an offer now.
And so yeah, so at that point I was left without a job for a few
months and I had no income whatsoever.
I was like, what the fuck I'm going to do now And and it was
my first idea was yeah, like maybe for a change I will do
something that I actually enjoy. And I went to my wife and I
said, listen, like the situation is as you can see not great.
But I I would like to take this chance and make tabletop RP GS
full time. We had some savings.
She had a pretty kind of stable and kind of decent job at the
time. So she was like, yeah, OK, how
you know how much money do you need And you know how how long
it will take for you to just kick things off.
And yeah. And just kind of sat down and
spent a week doing a whole business plan.
I had like I don't know 20 Excel sheets and and stuff like that.
And then I thought OK I'm ready. I'm I'm just going to do it.
So I did. I started to do my kind of my
work on core work and and yeah, it.
Since since then I'm still in the business still making this
full time, although I do kind of part time journalism as well.
But it's more of a kind of yeah and more of a part time kind of
night job rather than than full time thing.
And I'm I'm still here. So it's it's been tough because
being an indie creator, there's always stuff and you know, it's
it's super fun when you do this with having kind of, you know,
another day job that can pay your bills and and stuff like
that. But yeah, but I have to kind of
make everything from, from, from, you know, from making
tables of RPGs, which is great, but it's also stressful.
But yeah, still here, still alive and kicking and planning
for the future. So I guess, so I guess that's
good. And yeah, this is how it started
and this is how it's kind of going.
That's like a that's an incredible like like personal
come up for you that you've like worked so hard and made this
like a semi full time thing with another job.
So because Court Borg is so unbelievably good and cool so
like congratulations for that. Like that's that's huge.
I mean, a lot of people never take that leap, but good for
you. Thank you.
It was a difficult decision to make, but I knew kind of from
from the very first kind of the the second I I got that call
that they're they're going through a recruitment freeze.
I knew that, yeah, if if I'm going to make this, it's going
to be Corp work because after seven years in corporations, I
knew that I need to kind of harness that hate, that hatred
towards corporations and my time with them.
So it is a natural choice and I kind of started plotting Corp
work like years ago, like two years ago I think.
And I had a very kind of early draft.
But yeah, it definitely evolved into something much bigger than
I initially thought it will. But it wouldn't be possible with
without an army of of of artists and editors and other people who
supported me so so yeah so it's it's it's great that I you know
I can do it I can do it full time and you know I I can I'm
super happy and super proud and and and grateful that you know I
can say that I I do this kind of professionally but but yeah it's
sometimes it's tough but I I would never look back and I
would never regret this decision whatever the future brings I'm
I'm you know I will never regret making that decision making that
leap but yeah but fingers crossed it will come around and
everything will be will go smoothly for years and maybe one
day I'll get bored and I'll be like oh I'm going back to
corporation and that's not going to happen It's a joke.
Never. Back to corporate life.
Yeah, No, no, I would. I would rather do like a
physical work, which I think is great because it gives you a lot
of space to to think I would do. I would rather do that than go
back to a corporate role. Yeah, I when you said you'd
rather do, like, physical work. Yeah.
Oh, that's what I that's what I do for my, like, main job.
And it's it's honestly the best. So I totally understand that.
And I was a senior director before and I would not go back
to doing that. So it's interesting because as,
like, as like as an American looking through court board,
it's funny how true it still rings.
When you were making it, did you like recognize that the
corporate experience is like a very, very like Ubi?
Yeah, Universal, ubiquitous experience.
I think so. I kind of never.
So I think there are like two different sets of of kind of, I
know how to put it, but kind of two different sources of
inspiration for for the writing and for kind of for the whole
lore of of corporate work. One was kind of personal
experience, but the other one was kind of more general,
stereotypical look of, you know, how we see corporations and and
memes and jokes and and stuff like that.
But at the end of the day, I was always trying to make it kind of
feel real and to make like to write it like, in a way that
will kind of evoke those feelings of, oh fuck, this is
this is something, OK, can I swear, Sorry.
Yeah. Absolutely.
So like to evoke that feeling of
OK so this is you know this is something that I can really
relate to being an office worker or kind of have having past
corporate experience or something like that and all
those demons and dark magic rituals human sacrifice that's
kind of you know that's a flavor but a flavor of something that
kind of I wanted to feel real and and and it's it's not like
stuff that corporations are doing in our world is very
different from what corporations are doing and and Corp work
because. Yeah.
Because they did they're doing a lot of bad stuff as well.
So so I guess that's that's why it feels sometimes real and and
I had that feedback from people saying oh this is you know this
is too real for me. I like, I'm, I'm terrified
because I kind of lift through something like that and and I'm
like, OK, I don't know if that's good or bad, but I'm happy that
I kind of hit the nail in the head.
Yeah, absolutely. And then after.
So your last project though was a departure from Mark Borg.
It was something a little bit different.
It was whispers of the woods. So tell us a little bit about
about that because that that was in January, wasn't it?
It was just last month or? Yeah, yeah, it was.
It was, it's a fresh project. So that was something I
initially sorry initially created two years ago as a kind
of pamphlet trifle, pamphlet, minimalistics thing.
So just like 2 pamphlets, one for the gamekeeper and one for
GM and one for the players. And I had it play tested a
little bit but I decided not to print it, decided not to go with
it, decided not to publish it because I thought I can do, I
can do better, I can refine this and and I left it for two years
and I kind of gathered experience, knowledge to make it
right. So now I feel like I know how to
make this project look like I wanted it to look like back
then. And it is different.
It's very much a passion project because some people would say
it's more of a storytelling game with RPG mechanics.
Because it's played in a way that you roll the dice, sure.
And you have a gamekeeper, sure. But the players are in control
of the narrative for the most of the game.
Meaning you would roll a dice with your body and he would
fail, you would succeed and then you just sit back and you figure
out how do you want to narrate the whole scene from start to
end considering the results of of of of the of the dice roll
and and it's kind of players job to to tell that story.
It's it's more like I imagine the session being like you know
people gathering around a campfire and telling their past
kind of encounters with with weird things in the mystical
woods rather than a game of people just rolling and OK I
want to attack oh you failed. I don't know.
Bear killed you, whatever. And I I don't know how how it's
going to work. I I know that kind of the early
version worked pretty well with with kind of minimalistic and
kind of narrative driven mechanic in mind.
But we'll see. I'll definitely play it as the
shit out of this game and I will get people to play a lot before
before I call it ready. But yeah I'm super excited
because it is very different and not only it's it's not pork
project, it's it's it's very different from from most of the
things which I guess for some people it's cool because yeah
something something I don't want to say unique because you will
definitely find games like that if you look hard enough.
But yeah I really wanted to make something that that I would like
to play and I something that I would love to see being a kind
of storytelling experience for players.
Not only kind of mechanical thing and also kind of a
playground for me to test a few things like blind rolling which
is kind of physical act of of rolling the dice with your eyes
closed when in game. You for example, when in game
you encounter something mysterious, something that you
don't understand, something mystical and kind of you as a as
a player you're going to close your eyes to kind of resemble
the act of of not being able to see through that mystical veil
in the game. Then you roll the dice and then
you have to guess the result. And the the closer you are, the
the more chances for you to succeed.
And I like stuff like that, you know, just binding the physical
act of of playing in the mechanics with with the
narrative. So, So that's why I think it's
going to be a cool game. Yeah, I mean that's.
That sounds like it's a good way to create some cool moments for
sure, yeah? Yeah.
Well, I mean, so project,
project, project, because now it's Zenquest and you're doing
something different again. And and this is back-to-back to
Mark Borg with your current project, and that's one that's
actually funding right now on Backerkit instead of
Kickstarter. So I guess a couple of things
with that, like first of all, why'd you choose to go to
Backerkit for this project? And then and we'll talk a little
bit more about what the project is.
So there are two reasons. The first one, a very practical
one, is that Kickstarter said that I cannot run another
campaign when I haven't fulfilled the the last one,
meaning that I I cannot do like 2 campaigns so close to each
other. I was like, well, why not?
I I know people, I can personally know people who are
running a campaign after campaign after campaign.
They're like, yeah, but there are special cases we can
investigate and then put a green light on.
But you're not the case for whatever reason.
So so now but it was OK because I was actually looking to work
with backer kit on a project. I didn't know when exactly but
it's a great actually a great opportunity to to do that with
this one and so so yeah so we went to backer kit and and I'm,
I'm kind of reasonably happy with it.
Although we just hit a slump and I never had a slump like this
because we started really well with like 150 backers in in the
first day or two and over the last 24 hours we had like 2.
Which is unprecedented honestly. And I guess this is partially
like 2 reasons probably 1. Backer kit is not not so good in
in terms of converting kind of organic traffic because you know
Kickstarter is being browsed by thousands of people and and bar
cricket probably not. And if people are going to look
for Zinquest, they would probably go to look for
Kickstarter campaigns and not bar cricket campaigns and that
might kind of explain the the slump and kind of lack of that
organic traffic in the middle of the campaign.
But we are fine, we will. I think we are going to get out
of the slump soon. We have some things prepared,
so, so that's OK. But yeah, but I'm really
impressed by different options that Backer kit has and I think
it's a very cool platform and kind of I guess people should
consider it on. You know obviously Kickstarter
is a is a first choice because it's popular and you know
there's people knows Kickstarter but I think Backer kit if if
they do what they do and kind of keep that kind of progression.
I think they could be a a very decent competitor to Kickstarter
because they they have they have superior technology and and and
that that that's cool if if they have better kind of marketing if
they bring more people in then I think it it could be it could be
a close one. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, we've heard that from other creators as well.
I mean, there's a lot of Kickstarter's The Monolith, so
it's kind of hard to to leave that.
And when there's so many more people, like you said
organically going to Kickstarter versus like backer kit, it's
always going to be harder, you know, But they got the foot in
the door and it's going to be a slow progression.
When you know more and more projects go to them, more and
more people will go to it. But that's why we've heard, you
know, once you've people with like really, really big
followings where people are going to go wherever they go,
it's a little bit easier. But you know, it's, you know,
like you said, it's good to have something on, you know, multiple
platforms. You can develop a bigger
following on backer kit. And again, when you have more
cool projects like this going to backer kit, more people will go.
But yeah, the project is Heretic's Guide to the Dying
Lands. Like we said, this is
back-to-back to your roots, a bit back-to-back to Mark Borg.
So what is? What is Heretic's Guide to the
Dying Lands to Dying Land? So it is a region or map or
location generator kind of in a pretty similar to what Vaults of
varn are doing with with its location generating tables.
So basically the same concept that you have a you take a piece
of paper, you roll a bunch of dice and then based on the
results you go and you create your map with different
locations like I know swamp, graveyards, camp, etcetera.
And then you go in the book to those specific places and then
you roll a bunch of dice again and then you kind of fill those
locations with events and PCs, enemies, loot, kind of special
features of of of those locations.
And in 10 minutes, honestly, you can have, you can have one shot
or you can even have a whole campaign prepared on a piece of
paper kind of references to to the book to kind of really make
those locations feel alive. And and it wasn't my idea it was
Vault Crawler's idea because we wanted to make something
together because we've worked together on on Corpborg and he's
done a cover for kill your necromancer and he's done he's
designed paper miniatures for kill your necromancer.
So we're like yeah we want to do something together again and
I've asked him like what would you like to do and this was his
first idea. He said, have you seen Voltavar?
And I? I love it and the kind of map
generator is great and I never seen anything like it for
Morkport, like whoa, yeah, let's let's do it.
And I think it it is. It is something that personally
I've been missing in in work work, something like that.
There are a lot of different generators for for you know
different kind of adventures and and and stuff like that.
But there's no tool like this that you know with a with a few
die shows you can honestly create a whole map that'll kind
of give you hours of of of play time and and different and
unique locations. And The funny thing is that 3D
you know it all it takes are a few random tables and and then
you have like a let's say a camp and then you know there's a
cannibals camp and you know that there are two rival chieftains
in this camp. And you know what's kind of
what's the what's the deal between them and you know that
there is a treasure and maybe they just want to you know fight
each other for that treasure which is AI don't know which is
a goblin's hat which is kind of delicacy or something like that.
And all it takes is like 5 dice rolls and and you have a whole
setting to put the players in and let them wreak havoc or die,
whatever. And so yeah, so when I kind of
heard that idea from full scroll around, like yeah, we have to do
it. So that was kind of that's
that's the origin. Yeah, it's interesting because
Merck Borg was a fucking battering ram when it came in
and it really changed the scene in a lot of ways and also
spawned 1,000,000 1/2, you know, projects and scenes and
backgrounds and and everything from it too.
And I bought a lot, a lot of them for a while.
But but you're right, I haven't really seen this kind of like
more OSRE map generation. Almost like hex crawl, you know,
variant thing too. A lot of it is very specific,
like a lot of it is a new class or a new or a new location or an
adventure. Like it's very like a thing
versus like you said, these these generative adventures that
can happen. So it is really cool to see and
it kind of surprises me that, I mean, maybe someone has done
something similar and we just haven't seen it, but it kind of
surprised me that something like this hasn't come out for Merck
Borg, especially because I'm shocked.
That this is like no one else has, like this is a great idea.
Like it's a really very, very good idea.
I'm, I'm reading the project. I'm like, oh, this is awesome.
But yeah, I'm also surprised like man, no one's done this
yet. This is it's a great idea.
Well, there's so much empty space in Mark Borgan.
That's the point. You know there there's named
locations, but there's so much empty map and even this, even
those named locations, there's so much space exactly for a
project like this to fill with things.
So it's it's definitely a great idea and and I mean Vault
Caller's art is insane, so yeah. Yeah, he's he's great.
And yeah as you said I think maybe there is something similar
but with really thousands of of third party content it's
sometimes difficult to to find everything even though we have
actually breaks with with I think most of the projects that
are there to to be found in the Internet listed.
But still, you know, maybe someone, I don't know maybe
someone in Japan has done something like that in Japanese
and we we never seen it because we we, I don't know maybe you
do. But I don't.
I don't read Japanese. I only.
Have one Japanese workbook so far.
Yeah, I I've, I've, I've seen it and it looks great.
Probably we are probably talking about the same thing.
But either way, yeah, maybe maybe someone has done this and
and you know it kind of, it's becoming increasingly difficult
to promote part party work for content because there's just so,
so many different things. So and you know people's are
like you know they can back a lot of projects but they cannot
back to any projects at once and especially now with the Zine
quest there are a lot of great like amazing work work or cyber
projects. It's like I absolutely love but
personally I I cannot afford to back them all.
I I would love to but sometimes it it is difficult and and I
don't blame people for not supporting everything but but
the good thing is that it's it's a it's a community that really
supports third party content so much.
And I know that, you know, Johann and Pella and the whole
Stockholm cartel, they also support third party content if
they would and they would never do kind of the license for it,
but basically kind of the whole framework they've done and kind
of how open they are. It's it's it's amazing and
really kind of helps. You know, without more pork.
I wouldn't be here not only because I wouldn't be creating
Heretics Guide to Dying Lands, I would, I would not make able to
bar Peaches at all. I would probably be stuck at
some fucking corporate job soul sucking.
And I guess so. So.
Yeah. So.
Yeah. Thank you.
Johann Pele, you kind of you've
changed my life, really. Honestly and yeah and I think
it's it's actually I think it worked the same for a lot of
people you know I know a lot of creators that really kind of
really started to to do this if not full time then part time if
not part time then just kind of aspiring to to to do this
professionally because of work work and and doing more work
related stuff which is amazing. You know, it's it's it's great.
Yeah, I mean you couldn't couldn't you know couldn't agree
more. I mean Johann is great.
I mean everyone at Stockholm is great.
You know they and as you said they support the the community
so much. I mean even some of their the
early stuff right after Merck work came out was community
stuff. They've seen to saw community
content. They used to have the Merck bore
cult. I mean, you know, the the
openness of the license we got mugs and and and shower curtains
and everything, but like it is, it is, you know, fantastic what
they did. And and again, it really changed
the indie space in an interesting way, even even as
far as like making people realize a little bit more that
like the more open you are at the community, the more people
will be in it which means the more you'll sell like it.
It all feeds itself. You know Mothership did
something similar or has like a similar very.
Community driven. Vibrant community.
Yeah. So it it's great to see and and
it's you know they did amazing work and like you said so many
people that have come on the show started with making
markport content or have made markport content and stuff like
that. And it's because it's a great
game. You know it it's light.
Like you said the vibes are through the fucking roof and a
lot of us are just a bunch of fucking Edge Lord dark assholes
that like gross dark shit. So it's it's it's fun to make
and play stuff, you know? Yeah, it is.
It is amazing And you know, you know, saying community is is
great and it's the backbone of of kind of the whole movement
and it's, you know, it's true. It's so true.
And even a community I have, which is not in thousands, but
still I I have my Discord channel where like 200 people,
maybe 50 are active and maybe 10 or 12 are really active.
But no matter. Like all the people who backed
any of my project and all the people who kind of commented
asked where the when the physical release will be because
they, you know haven't backed the Kickstarter for some reason.
And all the people who are kind of interested just it's it's
really, it's really something. It kind of feels that what I do
makes sense and I do this for someone, kind of someone who's
really enjoying what I do. And it's something I've I've
never felt before and I've never done anything that I would feel
like, yeah, that kind of I I'm doing something that someone's
going to use and and maybe have fun, which which actually is
what kind of really kind of sold me to to make tables of games.
Because you know, I could I I know I could write comic books.
So yeah, I could you know try to write a novel or whatever.
But such a passive kind of storytelling because because
then you kind of force your vision you kind of force the the
story onto the reader. When you make video game also
you you kind of create boundaries for for an experience
and making table to bar. PGI can kind of give people some
tools and they would tell their own stories and and that's
amazing because you know from from a little brat when I was I
know 567 I I always loved kind of telling stories and I would
drove my my parents and my friends nuts because we like
shut the fuck up after three hours talking about kind of a
zombie apocalypse thing you know just shut up and and kind of you
know knowing that I can pass this on to someone who will sit
at the table and create their own stories with with things
that kind of I helped create that's that's priceless so and
and also talking about Japanese stuff I recently seen some of my
work some of the kind of free stuff translated into Russian
and I already had different proposals of of doing Russian
translation of korbourg. Italian translation of Korbourg.
Polish translation of Korbourg like whoa this kind of this is,
this is, this is it feels nice, you know, because I'm interested
enough to to even, you know think about something like that.
So yeah, it's great. Yeah.
Community. Yay.
That's, you know, we wouldn't be here like you, you wouldn't be
here as well if if not for the people who kind of love RPGs and
and you know, kind of wants to support such amazing people as
as yourself, so. Yeah, completely there, Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I think there's a lot of truth to
what you said. I also think that the stuff that
you create is really very fantastic and kind of speaking
to what Ryan said, that there's and what you also said that
there's hundreds of Merck board projects.
But I feel like yours very much stand out as like a labor of
love of the space of Merck Borg. I mean, I can't tell you the
last time I backed a Merck Borg project that wasn't Max just
because personally I'm a little burnt out on it.
But I've I backed Heretic's guide because I'm like, Oh yeah,
this is like such a great take on the space and the formula.
I think it creates like such high quality work in relation.
So I'm not shocked that people are reaching out, like, yeah, we
should translate this so we can we can use it because it's
really great stuff. Yeah.
And and we'll see, I'm probably, I will probably say no to
translating Corp work because for the similar reason that you
know SOCOM hotel don't really want to to translate more into
different languages. It would really interfere with
with the whole design and I guess maybe, maybe I will change
my mind one day, but definitely some of my other work will be
translated like The Whispers of the Woods.
I already have people who would translate this into Polish.
I'm not gonna, you know, I don't.
I could probably make games in Polish, but I will never do
that. Probably because, you know, we
have a such a fantastic community with, you know, a lot
of people. We have a very good kind of
crowdfunding platform and people are making amazing projects
there. But I've always felt, you know,
you know, doing more work, stuff that's not super popular in
Poland, because in Poland people like to play in Polish.
Although a lot of people speak, you know, perfect English
through a lot of people in the RPG community that, you know,
they they prefer to have your books in in Polish, which is
fine. But yeah, I couldn't do both.
So if someone wants to kind of take my work and translate it,
I'm like, whoa, that's amazing. I'm, I'm happy to, you know, pay
you for it. But probably I would.
I would never do this myself. Yeah, well, so you also said
that the artist on this project says Vault Crawler.
And you said it was there. You know, one of their ideas
that kind of kicked it all off. How did you develop a
relationship with Voccrawler? Because it's got to be nice to
be friends with someone who's that good at art.
Because you know something everyone's always looking for.
So actually, I think I found him online looking for artists, some
kind of RPG space. And I I I've seen his work and
was like, hey, would you, would you, can I kind of Commission
something? And we took it from there,
actually. But most of the artists I work
with, or I know, I kind of knew, I know for for for years now.
A lot of people are from the kind of comic book space in in
Poland and we have a lot of crossovers, especially lately a
lot of crossovers between comic books seen in Poland and and
tabled up RPGs in Poland. Which is great because we have
fantastic comic book artists. And actually yesterday I was
playing occasional play testing, a system my friend is, is is
working on and he's such a wonderful comic book creator.
He's one of the best. Like honestly, his work is
really kind of, you know, award-winning.
But he deserve so much more praise than he's got and I'm
super excited for his project. Like such a cool system, such a
cool idea. And it's great to see people
like doing things like that, crossing over and and and trying
to especially great artists kind of coming to different medium
and then doing illustration rather than did in comics.
And yeah, a lot of people I've worked with on core work are
from the comic book scene, so yeah.
Yeah, I mean again it's it must be super nice to to have that
and have that in your back pocket because the project does
look absolutely fantastic and as I said before it is, it is on
backer kit. So it's it's not on Kickstarter.
We'll make sure that we put the links everywhere too.
But when people go to the backer kit link and back this project
because they absolutely should, what can they expect to get from
the project? Like, do you, are there a bunch
of tiers or or you know what? What's the what can they
actually physically get or digitally or whatever?
Yeah, So we really wanted to keep it simple, as simple as
possible. So you can get a digital copy or
you can get a physical copy. The physical copy is going to be
at least 44 pages. Well, it will probably be more
because already I see, I know we we need a lot of space to to
make it work. But yeah it's going to be you
know high quality print and and and that's it really because I
know it's it's such a drag doing a lot of different tiers and
different add-ons and we and we decided you know it's all in
there like the product will be complete like you'll have
everything you wanted to make is going to be in this book.
So it's simple you want digital, get digital, you want a physical
copy, you get a physical copy and and think it's we think it's
reasonably priced as well. So I think people should should
be happy and honestly I think a lot of people are getting a
physical version much more than I anticipated.
Usually it's like 65% people getting or 70% people getting
physical copy address getting digital and or kind of higher
tiers. But yeah, in here very few
people took the digital copy, which is great.
You know, paper is always paper and I think it's a bit easier
also to to use it when you create your map, being able to
quickly just turn the page on. So, so yeah, but that's that's
it, you know, that's that's really all there is.
And if we and we actually just a few minutes ago, we just hit our
first stretch goal which is a custom map template.
It's going to, it's going to be a template for you to print and
then you can roll onto this template and it will look cool.
It will look professional. You'll have some some of those
one space to take notes and then you can make a photo, put it on
Instagram, people will be like whoa or oh that's great.
So, so that's that. And the next next next stretch
goal at 5666 Euros is going to be four additional pages.
And then the last stretch goal, should we get there is going to
be one page adventure, probably printed separately only.
Maybe like a folded bigger map like A2 Dimension or something
like that included for free for for every backer.
So that's that's yeah, we really wanted to keep it very simple.
You just get the game you don't get any kind of pins or whatever
and and I think you know, especially for Zen Quest it's
probably more reasonable because you know people are spending a
lot of money. So if you want it to be kind of
reasonably priced and and don't really throw a lot of different
options so people can just go and and and read what what it is
about and and back it in. That's it.
Yeah, I mean you couldn't agree more with that.
I I really hope a lot of people seem to be keeping projects
simpler now for so many reasons. One like you said in Zenequest
people want Zenes, not necessarily all the bits and
bobs, but you know post pandemic shipping is crazy.
Production costs are up like everything.
It's just there's so much more that goes into eating a whole
box full of stuff. I mean I've got got projects
that are that have been I've been waiting on for years now
because so much of it came with so much stuff.
So it's nice to actually back a project, see the project end and
then get the project when you still remember that you spent
money on it. So definitely, definitely like
to see that and especially if there's inquest that it's it's
pretty straightforward and even the stretch goals really don't
add a whole lot. It's not like you're gonna right
like 50 more pages or bring in like 5 more people.
So it's it's it's really nice that it's gonna that it's
happening it will happen it'll you know anything extra will be
done because the project is funded like you said it's
already at you know passing the first stretch goal and it still
has 10 days left on it. So so after that project's done
I know you're you'll have whispers of the woods working on
you'll have here's excited to the dying lane you're working
on. But what is kind of the feature
for Hell tongue storytelling for for Pelvis Kissman?
With anything on the docket or you, you you going to calm down
and and just finish the stuff you're on?
So that that's the problem that I cannot really slow down
because if I I need to kind of do campaign after campaign and
kind of reasonably kind of reasonable windows, right, I
need to have time to finish previous projects.
But I guess it all kind of shifted a little bit because of
corporate usage took much so much time, but now I'm kind of
getting there. So I should get into a rhythm
and I should be on track with everything.
But I will have to start another campaign in a in a month's time
just to be able to pay my bills and and the next project will be
a a a different thing a solo solo game solo table RPG game
about is going to be set in a kind of medieval fantasy world
as as as you know it but it's kind of posts cataclysm so
people are kind of more pissed off and people are poor and it's
like you know everyone's not really super happy and your job
is to as a guardian of of of of giants your job is to deliver or
escort a the last giant across the lands so he can meet his or
her faith by the sea. And and yeah and again something
that I haven't seen done too many times I mean kind of escort
solar RPG but I also really wanted to make this because one
night I just couldn't sleep and I made the whole game and kind
of I've I made-up all all the kind of mechanics.
I have it on my phone. It took me a few hours and then
I couldn't sleep because I was so excited.
But it was a few months ago and I kind of, I always let my, my
ideas kind of you know sit and wait and and and boil and when
it's ready I I can you know press so that that will be my
next project. I'm actually, I should be
commissioning Art this week, so I should have some more
information about it soon. But yeah, but then I think I'll
have to go back to Morg Bork for also because I love it, that's
first thing. And also for marketing reason
because it's it's always a a bit easier to get people to back in
Morg Bork project because I know where to look.
I know those people, they know me a little bit, so it's a bit
easier. So it will probably look like
this that I'll do one kind of work project and then I'll do
one kind of more of a passion project and we'll see how it
goes. But after Corp Borg, I'm really
thinking about making another kind of a bigger hack.
So again kind of interesting setting based on those rules,
based on the kind of you know the the vibe, but something
very, very different. Again although it's not like a
Corp Borg is is unique because it's not because someone's done
more Corp about a few years ago and there is another project
called Mork Org done by by my friends from gosh from from
beyond Cataclysm and they're working on it so.
So that's great, but yeah, we'll we'll see and to hopefully I
will have a game to to kick start or to to put in background
or whatever that will not be mine, that I will publish
something that someone else has done.
Fingers crossed that would be really cool because yeah, the
project is amazing. So we'll see how it goes and
yeah, and it's a grind. So yeah, there will be many more
projects to come, and until I'm defeated or I'm victorious,
we'll see. I mean you know that's great to
see because you know as Hunter said before your stuff is, is is
really good. I really, really enjoyed.
I back to Court Borg. So I got it when the PDF first
came out and everything and it's really, really good And there
is, there is so much Merck Borg stuff out there and some of it
is really, really good. A lot of it's fine.
But I do have to say like your stuff is especially Court Borg
is way up there at the top. So if you are going to be
bouncing from some passion project back to Mark Borg, it's
going to be nice to see that whether it's on Kickstarter or
Backerkit or or whatever it is. So I'm definitely looking
forward to more things coming out from Hilton and it sounds
like you have an idea to expand publishing other people's stuff
as well too. So, I mean, I can only imagine
that this is a more fun grind than the corporate grind.
But you know, we all know that it's hard work too, Yeah.
It is. It is fun grind and I, you know,
I'm so grateful that I can do this.
I'm grateful to to my wife that she supported me.
I'm so grateful for all the people who kind of backed my
projects. And I'm grateful to people like
yourself who, you know, can take me in for for an interview and
spread the word. So yeah, thank you so much.
Yeah, of course. So.
So where can people find not just this, it's on backer kit.
We'll make sure the link's down there and everything as well
too. But where can people find the
rest of of your things so they can find where Corp Org is and
everything we're talking about in our future things?
To most things are on H it's just let me Google the address.
Yeah. I just.
I have it. Yeah.
It's just yeah, it's her tongue. Dash storytelling dot H dot IO.
No creator ever knows their itch, and I always have it open.
It is, yeah. Thank you so much.
So there you can get Corp war in digital version, although a
refined version with two additional pages will come
hopefully this week. I need to find some time just to
put it in there because I had to add 2 pages because the the
printer were like oh but it's it's not dividable by 4.
I'm like oh fuck I OK what do I do?
I just need to add 2 two more pages and call random tables.
So I did and then you can find basically every every other
project I made. Most of it it's for Morburg
Cyborg but some kind of one page games like cannons and kisses
which is a pirate hack for lasers and Feelings and super
Cool. I really like it and others and
kind of. You can also find me on Drive
through RPG, should you prefer that over each.
And yeah, that's that's where you can find.
And usually I go by my name and surname or by helping
storytelling, so both should give you some results.
Yeah, there's only one holding storytelling, and there are a
couple Pavel Kitman's, but if you just put RPG or Borg or
anything like that, that's going to be me.
Thank you. And and like we said, we'll make
sure that all the links are on the bottom.
But Pavel, thank you so much for coming on.
You know I've I've been backing your stuff since Court Borg and
looking forward to all the stuff you do in the future.
And this will, I can only assume not be the last time you hear
about Pavel here on the show. So we really appreciate you
being here. Thank you and thank you so much.
So that's it. So that'll be our episode for
today. Again, thank you, Pablo, for
being here. You know where all of our links
are. They're on the screen.
They're below. It is what it is.
We'll make sure that you can find Pablo everywhere we go.
And that'll be it for today. Thank you.
And have a good day, everybody. Bye.