1 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,440 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll podcast. 2 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,280 My Name Is Ryan. And I worship at the altar of 3 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:21,880 coffee. Blessed be thy brew. 4 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,480 And today we have a special guest with us today that is 5 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,680 Pavel Kickman of Hail Tongue Storytelling. 6 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,720 How are you doing today, Pablo? I'm super well, thank you so 7 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:34,960 much. Thanks for having me. 8 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,800 And yeah, I'm really happy to to, yeah, have this time with 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,120 you today. Yeah, of course. 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,680 Thank. You so much for coming on Jinx. 11 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,840 Look at us. We've only done this 170 but but 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,400 yeah so for for those out there that might not know you or your 13 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,680 past work like what are, what are some of the things that you 14 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:01,280 might be known for in the space. I guess the biggest one would be 15 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:07,120 Korba Borg, which is as you probably figure out, a Korba 16 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:08,920 Borg. Oh sorry more Borg hack. 17 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:15,840 Set in a modern times kind of fantasy world where corporations 18 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:21,280 ruled the world as they do but in the game they are a bit more 19 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,960 explicit about using you know human sacrifice demons and and 20 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:29,280 whatnot. So that's that's that was kind 21 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:35,280 of my my first big project that kind of kicked things off but 22 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,880 I've since then I've also kick started Kill Your Necromancer 23 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,120 which is almost ready and the last campaign was for Whispers 24 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,800 of the Woods which is also now kind of work in progress but 25 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,400 it's coming really soon. Yeah, and that looks beautiful. 26 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,160 It does. It does. 27 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:00,440 So a lot of your a lot of your early work is Mark Borg related 28 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:07,720 prior to Whispers of the Woods. What about Mark Borg? 29 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,800 Is that the thing that decided that helped you kind of push 30 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,600 into deciding to put stuff out and be a creator? 31 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:18,680 And if so, why Mark Borg? Well, yeah, definitely. 32 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,000 That was the case. And I think it started like 33 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,000 three years ago when I really started to kind of getting into 34 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:30,640 tabletop RPGs because I'm one of those people who are not in in 35 00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:33,440 the medium for 40 years or whatever. 36 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:39,960 I started relatively late in my life, but I was always close to 37 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,040 things like game design, although more on kind of video 38 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,520 game side. I was always close to creative 39 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,400 writing because I wrote comic books and I've done pop culture 40 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:57,000 journalism for years now. And yeah, and so, so kind of one 41 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,280 of my first encounters with tabletop RPGs was morg pork and 42 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,200 and it's basically I was speechless and I was like whoa, 43 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,160 so you know you can make something like that. 44 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:15,640 It doesn't have to be D&D. And and what I kind of loved was 45 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:19,280 not only the style but kind of the minimalism of the rules and 46 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,440 the way kind of the game treats you as someone who can manage 47 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:28,040 playing the game. Like you don't need to have 300 48 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,520 pages of rules just to kind of play one game. 49 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:39,480 And and then I fought because at that time I was kind of out of 50 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,760 the kind of comic book business, although it wasn't it was never 51 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:43,960 a business. It was always kind of. 52 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:52,440 I was an indie creator with very few commercial things done and 53 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:57,040 kind of my main job for 780 for, yeah, seven years was kind of 54 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,200 doing corporate work. And at the time I was kind of 55 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:06,240 looking for something where I can really kind of put my 56 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,880 creativity to. And I thought, yeah, I maybe I 57 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,480 will just start, you know, making things for more work 58 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,640 because, you know, the license is open. 59 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,760 So, so it was a good kind of playground for me. 60 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:25,200 So I started like 2-3 years ago with little things like a class 61 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:31,800 or a short adventure or kind of one page, I think. 62 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:37,480 So I've done a few of those for Mark Borg and for Cyborg when it 63 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,440 came out, which is actually funny because I remember I got 64 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:47,840 the PDF from the Kickstarter a few months before the physical 65 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:50,720 release. So I kind of made Two or Three 66 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,280 Atoms before it was kind of commercially available. 67 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,680 Yeah, yes, it can happen sometimes. 68 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,480 And and then I thought, you know, it's maybe a time to think 69 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,480 about a bigger project, but I need a push. 70 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,560 And that push came almost a year ago to. 71 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,000 Yeah. Well, started to the the push 72 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:19,360 started around a year ago when I was left with without a job 73 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,640 which was I was like, yeah, OK, I didn't really enjoy this, this 74 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,080 role and I thought, you know I deserve more. 75 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,920 So it's OK, I will find something else. 76 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:38,040 But I didn't because the market was absolutely terrible at the 77 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,240 time. It was so difficult to find 78 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,400 anything, especially because I had very specific set of skills 79 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,840 and I was looking for a very, very specific role. 80 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,040 But I found one. It was then around kind of April 81 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,560 time. So I got an offer. 82 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,720 I was like, yeah, OK, that's that's cool. 83 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,880 And then a few weeks just passed and like, OK, so I, you know, I 84 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,360 would like to sign the offer but I got the call. 85 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,320 Oh sorry Pavel. We are doing kind of recruitment 86 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:13,000 freeze now so we cannot present you with an offer now. 87 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,680 And so yeah, so at that point I was left without a job for a few 88 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,800 months and I had no income whatsoever. 89 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,560 I was like, what the fuck I'm going to do now And and it was 90 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,920 my first idea was yeah, like maybe for a change I will do 91 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,160 something that I actually enjoy. And I went to my wife and I 92 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:40,640 said, listen, like the situation is as you can see not great. 93 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:46,400 But I I would like to take this chance and make tabletop RP GS 94 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,640 full time. We had some savings. 95 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:55,280 She had a pretty kind of stable and kind of decent job at the 96 00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:57,400 time. So she was like, yeah, OK, how 97 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,520 you know how much money do you need And you know how how long 98 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,760 it will take for you to just kick things off. 99 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,240 And yeah. And just kind of sat down and 100 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,800 spent a week doing a whole business plan. 101 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,600 I had like I don't know 20 Excel sheets and and stuff like that. 102 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,520 And then I thought OK I'm ready. I'm I'm just going to do it. 103 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,360 So I did. I started to do my kind of my 104 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,760 work on core work and and yeah, it. 105 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,080 Since since then I'm still in the business still making this 106 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:39,240 full time, although I do kind of part time journalism as well. 107 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,600 But it's more of a kind of yeah and more of a part time kind of 108 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,960 night job rather than than full time thing. 109 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:53,160 And I'm I'm still here. So it's it's been tough because 110 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:58,200 being an indie creator, there's always stuff and you know, it's 111 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,040 it's super fun when you do this with having kind of, you know, 112 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,880 another day job that can pay your bills and and stuff like 113 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,200 that. But yeah, but I have to kind of 114 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,280 make everything from, from, from, you know, from making 115 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,840 tables of RPGs, which is great, but it's also stressful. 116 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,440 But yeah, still here, still alive and kicking and planning 117 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,440 for the future. So I guess, so I guess that's 118 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,680 good. And yeah, this is how it started 119 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,720 and this is how it's kind of going. 120 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,400 That's like a that's an incredible like like personal 121 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,880 come up for you that you've like worked so hard and made this 122 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,240 like a semi full time thing with another job. 123 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:47,200 So because Court Borg is so unbelievably good and cool so 124 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,440 like congratulations for that. Like that's that's huge. 125 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,520 I mean, a lot of people never take that leap, but good for 126 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,240 you. Thank you. 127 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,840 It was a difficult decision to make, but I knew kind of from 128 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,440 from the very first kind of the the second I I got that call 129 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,960 that they're they're going through a recruitment freeze. 130 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,440 I knew that, yeah, if if I'm going to make this, it's going 131 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,960 to be Corp work because after seven years in corporations, I 132 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,280 knew that I need to kind of harness that hate, that hatred 133 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,760 towards corporations and my time with them. 134 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,000 So it is a natural choice and I kind of started plotting Corp 135 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,040 work like years ago, like two years ago I think. 136 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,520 And I had a very kind of early draft. 137 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,600 But yeah, it definitely evolved into something much bigger than 138 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,440 I initially thought it will. But it wouldn't be possible with 139 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:43,160 without an army of of of artists and editors and other people who 140 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:48,960 supported me so so yeah so it's it's it's great that I you know 141 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,720 I can do it I can do it full time and you know I I can I'm 142 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,080 super happy and super proud and and and grateful that you know I 143 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:02,960 can say that I I do this kind of professionally but but yeah it's 144 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,160 sometimes it's tough but I I would never look back and I 145 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,640 would never regret this decision whatever the future brings I'm 146 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,160 I'm you know I will never regret making that decision making that 147 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:20,960 leap but yeah but fingers crossed it will come around and 148 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,920 everything will be will go smoothly for years and maybe one 149 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,960 day I'll get bored and I'll be like oh I'm going back to 150 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,640 corporation and that's not going to happen It's a joke. 151 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,360 Never. Back to corporate life. 152 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:38,120 Yeah, No, no, I would. I would rather do like a 153 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,640 physical work, which I think is great because it gives you a lot 154 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:48,080 of space to to think I would do. I would rather do that than go 155 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,520 back to a corporate role. Yeah, I when you said you'd 156 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,680 rather do, like, physical work. Yeah. 157 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,800 Oh, that's what I that's what I do for my, like, main job. 158 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,640 And it's it's honestly the best. So I totally understand that. 159 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,760 And I was a senior director before and I would not go back 160 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,880 to doing that. So it's interesting because as, 161 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,280 like, as like as an American looking through court board, 162 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,080 it's funny how true it still rings. 163 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,040 When you were making it, did you like recognize that the 164 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,240 corporate experience is like a very, very like Ubi? 165 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,480 Yeah, Universal, ubiquitous experience. 166 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,440 I think so. I kind of never. 167 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:36,960 So I think there are like two different sets of of kind of, I 168 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,200 know how to put it, but kind of two different sources of 169 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,520 inspiration for for the writing and for kind of for the whole 170 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,160 lore of of corporate work. One was kind of personal 171 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:53,000 experience, but the other one was kind of more general, 172 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:58,840 stereotypical look of, you know, how we see corporations and and 173 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,280 memes and jokes and and stuff like that. 174 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,000 But at the end of the day, I was always trying to make it kind of 175 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:12,240 feel real and to make like to write it like, in a way that 176 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,120 will kind of evoke those feelings of, oh fuck, this is 177 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,760 this is something, OK, can I swear, Sorry. 178 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,200 Yeah. Absolutely. 179 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:23,840 Absolutely. So like to evoke that feeling of 180 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,040 OK so this is you know this is something that I can really 181 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,760 relate to being an office worker or kind of have having past 182 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,080 corporate experience or something like that and all 183 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,720 those demons and dark magic rituals human sacrifice that's 184 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,440 kind of you know that's a flavor but a flavor of something that 185 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,200 kind of I wanted to feel real and and and it's it's not like 186 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:52,080 stuff that corporations are doing in our world is very 187 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,800 different from what corporations are doing and and Corp work 188 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:58,000 because. Yeah. 189 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,360 Because they did they're doing a lot of bad stuff as well. 190 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:07,040 So so I guess that's that's why it feels sometimes real and and 191 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,040 I had that feedback from people saying oh this is you know this 192 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,600 is too real for me. I like, I'm, I'm terrified 193 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,720 because I kind of lift through something like that and and I'm 194 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:21,000 like, OK, I don't know if that's good or bad, but I'm happy that 195 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,880 I kind of hit the nail in the head. 196 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,400 Yeah, absolutely. And then after. 197 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:33,360 So your last project though was a departure from Mark Borg. 198 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:34,840 It was something a little bit different. 199 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,760 It was whispers of the woods. So tell us a little bit about 200 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,120 about that because that that was in January, wasn't it? 201 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,520 It was just last month or? Yeah, yeah, it was. 202 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,600 It was, it's a fresh project. So that was something I 203 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:53,360 initially sorry initially created two years ago as a kind 204 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,800 of pamphlet trifle, pamphlet, minimalistics thing. 205 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,000 So just like 2 pamphlets, one for the gamekeeper and one for 206 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:09,600 GM and one for the players. And I had it play tested a 207 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:15,720 little bit but I decided not to print it, decided not to go with 208 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,760 it, decided not to publish it because I thought I can do, I 209 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:23,480 can do better, I can refine this and and I left it for two years 210 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,640 and I kind of gathered experience, knowledge to make it 211 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,400 right. So now I feel like I know how to 212 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:37,560 make this project look like I wanted it to look like back 213 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,560 then. And it is different. 214 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,840 It's very much a passion project because some people would say 215 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,920 it's more of a storytelling game with RPG mechanics. 216 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,960 Because it's played in a way that you roll the dice, sure. 217 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,800 And you have a gamekeeper, sure. But the players are in control 218 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,200 of the narrative for the most of the game. 219 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,320 Meaning you would roll a dice with your body and he would 220 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,880 fail, you would succeed and then you just sit back and you figure 221 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,360 out how do you want to narrate the whole scene from start to 222 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:18,600 end considering the results of of of of the of the dice roll 223 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,800 and and it's kind of players job to to tell that story. 224 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,720 It's it's more like I imagine the session being like you know 225 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,320 people gathering around a campfire and telling their past 226 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,080 kind of encounters with with weird things in the mystical 227 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,760 woods rather than a game of people just rolling and OK I 228 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,600 want to attack oh you failed. I don't know. 229 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:49,120 Bear killed you, whatever. And I I don't know how how it's 230 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,480 going to work. I I know that kind of the early 231 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,960 version worked pretty well with with kind of minimalistic and 232 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,240 kind of narrative driven mechanic in mind. 233 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,040 But we'll see. I'll definitely play it as the 234 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,480 shit out of this game and I will get people to play a lot before 235 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,080 before I call it ready. But yeah I'm super excited 236 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,560 because it is very different and not only it's it's not pork 237 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,360 project, it's it's it's very different from from most of the 238 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,320 things which I guess for some people it's cool because yeah 239 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,680 something something I don't want to say unique because you will 240 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,440 definitely find games like that if you look hard enough. 241 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,600 But yeah I really wanted to make something that that I would like 242 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,440 to play and I something that I would love to see being a kind 243 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,960 of storytelling experience for players. 244 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,080 Not only kind of mechanical thing and also kind of a 245 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:54,960 playground for me to test a few things like blind rolling which 246 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:59,960 is kind of physical act of of rolling the dice with your eyes 247 00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:03,920 closed when in game. You for example, when in game 248 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,960 you encounter something mysterious, something that you 249 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:13,960 don't understand, something mystical and kind of you as a as 250 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,839 a player you're going to close your eyes to kind of resemble 251 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:22,319 the act of of not being able to see through that mystical veil 252 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,640 in the game. Then you roll the dice and then 253 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:29,040 you have to guess the result. And the the closer you are, the 254 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:31,120 the more chances for you to succeed. 255 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,520 And I like stuff like that, you know, just binding the physical 256 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,440 act of of playing in the mechanics with with the 257 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:43,200 narrative. So, So that's why I think it's 258 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,400 going to be a cool game. Yeah, I mean that's. 259 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,000 That sounds like it's a good way to create some cool moments for 260 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,360 sure, yeah? Yeah. 261 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,120 Yeah. Well, I mean, so project, 262 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:58,040 project, project, because now it's Zenquest and you're doing 263 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,520 something different again. And and this is back-to-back to 264 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,640 Mark Borg with your current project, and that's one that's 265 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,680 actually funding right now on Backerkit instead of 266 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,600 Kickstarter. So I guess a couple of things 267 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,280 with that, like first of all, why'd you choose to go to 268 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,920 Backerkit for this project? And then and we'll talk a little 269 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,560 bit more about what the project is. 270 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,920 So there are two reasons. The first one, a very practical 271 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,760 one, is that Kickstarter said that I cannot run another 272 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,720 campaign when I haven't fulfilled the the last one, 273 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,880 meaning that I I cannot do like 2 campaigns so close to each 274 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,800 other. I was like, well, why not? 275 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,120 I I know people, I can personally know people who are 276 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:41,360 running a campaign after campaign after campaign. 277 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,160 They're like, yeah, but there are special cases we can 278 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,320 investigate and then put a green light on. 279 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,400 But you're not the case for whatever reason. 280 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:56,600 So so now but it was OK because I was actually looking to work 281 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:01,240 with backer kit on a project. I didn't know when exactly but 282 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,760 it's a great actually a great opportunity to to do that with 283 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:12,840 this one and so so yeah so we went to backer kit and and I'm, 284 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,600 I'm kind of reasonably happy with it. 285 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,800 Although we just hit a slump and I never had a slump like this 286 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,640 because we started really well with like 150 backers in in the 287 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:30,560 first day or two and over the last 24 hours we had like 2. 288 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,720 Which is unprecedented honestly. And I guess this is partially 289 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,600 like 2 reasons probably 1. Backer kit is not not so good in 290 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,880 in terms of converting kind of organic traffic because you know 291 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:50,800 Kickstarter is being browsed by thousands of people and and bar 292 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,440 cricket probably not. And if people are going to look 293 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,560 for Zinquest, they would probably go to look for 294 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,840 Kickstarter campaigns and not bar cricket campaigns and that 295 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,880 might kind of explain the the slump and kind of lack of that 296 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,720 organic traffic in the middle of the campaign. 297 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,920 But we are fine, we will. I think we are going to get out 298 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,120 of the slump soon. We have some things prepared, 299 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,320 so, so that's OK. But yeah, but I'm really 300 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,880 impressed by different options that Backer kit has and I think 301 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,120 it's a very cool platform and kind of I guess people should 302 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:30,440 consider it on. You know obviously Kickstarter 303 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,520 is a is a first choice because it's popular and you know 304 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:39,080 there's people knows Kickstarter but I think Backer kit if if 305 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:45,720 they do what they do and kind of keep that kind of progression. 306 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:50,040 I think they could be a a very decent competitor to Kickstarter 307 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,160 because they they have they have superior technology and and and 308 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,360 that that that's cool if if they have better kind of marketing if 309 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:03,040 they bring more people in then I think it it could be it could be 310 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,440 a close one. Yeah, yeah. 311 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,240 I mean, we've heard that from other creators as well. 312 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,680 I mean, there's a lot of Kickstarter's The Monolith, so 313 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,960 it's kind of hard to to leave that. 314 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,320 And when there's so many more people, like you said 315 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,000 organically going to Kickstarter versus like backer kit, it's 316 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,160 always going to be harder, you know, But they got the foot in 317 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:23,680 the door and it's going to be a slow progression. 318 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,360 When you know more and more projects go to them, more and 319 00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:30,440 more people will go to it. But that's why we've heard, you 320 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,120 know, once you've people with like really, really big 321 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,240 followings where people are going to go wherever they go, 322 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,160 it's a little bit easier. But you know, it's, you know, 323 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,920 like you said, it's good to have something on, you know, multiple 324 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,400 platforms. You can develop a bigger 325 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,960 following on backer kit. And again, when you have more 326 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,960 cool projects like this going to backer kit, more people will go. 327 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,320 But yeah, the project is Heretic's Guide to the Dying 328 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:55,360 Lands. Like we said, this is 329 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:58,600 back-to-back to your roots, a bit back-to-back to Mark Borg. 330 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,200 So what is? What is Heretic's Guide to the 331 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:08,120 Dying Lands to Dying Land? So it is a region or map or 332 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:15,320 location generator kind of in a pretty similar to what Vaults of 333 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:20,200 varn are doing with with its location generating tables. 334 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,640 So basically the same concept that you have a you take a piece 335 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,320 of paper, you roll a bunch of dice and then based on the 336 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,320 results you go and you create your map with different 337 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:37,680 locations like I know swamp, graveyards, camp, etcetera. 338 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,600 And then you go in the book to those specific places and then 339 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,640 you roll a bunch of dice again and then you kind of fill those 340 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:52,000 locations with events and PCs, enemies, loot, kind of special 341 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,560 features of of of those locations. 342 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:01,040 And in 10 minutes, honestly, you can have, you can have one shot 343 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,640 or you can even have a whole campaign prepared on a piece of 344 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:11,720 paper kind of references to to the book to kind of really make 345 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:18,240 those locations feel alive. And and it wasn't my idea it was 346 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,160 Vault Crawler's idea because we wanted to make something 347 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,960 together because we've worked together on on Corpborg and he's 348 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,040 done a cover for kill your necromancer and he's done he's 349 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,000 designed paper miniatures for kill your necromancer. 350 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,200 So we're like yeah we want to do something together again and 351 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,400 I've asked him like what would you like to do and this was his 352 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,640 first idea. He said, have you seen Voltavar? 353 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,960 And I? I love it and the kind of map 354 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,720 generator is great and I never seen anything like it for 355 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,120 Morkport, like whoa, yeah, let's let's do it. 356 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,560 And I think it it is. It is something that personally 357 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,200 I've been missing in in work work, something like that. 358 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,280 There are a lot of different generators for for you know 359 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,360 different kind of adventures and and and stuff like that. 360 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,840 But there's no tool like this that you know with a with a few 361 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:23,040 die shows you can honestly create a whole map that'll kind 362 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,880 of give you hours of of of play time and and different and 363 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,440 unique locations. And The funny thing is that 3D 364 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:37,200 you know it all it takes are a few random tables and and then 365 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,600 you have like a let's say a camp and then you know there's a 366 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,520 cannibals camp and you know that there are two rival chieftains 367 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,120 in this camp. And you know what's kind of 368 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,600 what's the what's the deal between them and you know that 369 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,720 there is a treasure and maybe they just want to you know fight 370 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,480 each other for that treasure which is AI don't know which is 371 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,360 a goblin's hat which is kind of delicacy or something like that. 372 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,480 And all it takes is like 5 dice rolls and and you have a whole 373 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:12,440 setting to put the players in and let them wreak havoc or die, 374 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,320 whatever. And so yeah, so when I kind of 375 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,120 heard that idea from full scroll around, like yeah, we have to do 376 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:22,920 it. So that was kind of that's 377 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:28,520 that's the origin. Yeah, it's interesting because 378 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,920 Merck Borg was a fucking battering ram when it came in 379 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,960 and it really changed the scene in a lot of ways and also 380 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,680 spawned 1,000,000 1/2, you know, projects and scenes and 381 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,000 backgrounds and and everything from it too. 382 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,200 And I bought a lot, a lot of them for a while. 383 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:51,560 But but you're right, I haven't really seen this kind of like 384 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:58,360 more OSRE map generation. Almost like hex crawl, you know, 385 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,680 variant thing too. A lot of it is very specific, 386 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,000 like a lot of it is a new class or a new or a new location or an 387 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,920 adventure. Like it's very like a thing 388 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,680 versus like you said, these these generative adventures that 389 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,400 can happen. So it is really cool to see and 390 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,080 it kind of surprises me that, I mean, maybe someone has done 391 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,840 something similar and we just haven't seen it, but it kind of 392 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,080 surprised me that something like this hasn't come out for Merck 393 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:24,800 Borg, especially because I'm shocked. 394 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,200 That this is like no one else has, like this is a great idea. 395 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,960 Like it's a really very, very good idea. 396 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,880 I'm, I'm reading the project. I'm like, oh, this is awesome. 397 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,280 But yeah, I'm also surprised like man, no one's done this 398 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,080 yet. This is it's a great idea. 399 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,240 Well, there's so much empty space in Mark Borgan. 400 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,000 That's the point. You know there there's named 401 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,440 locations, but there's so much empty map and even this, even 402 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,840 those named locations, there's so much space exactly for a 403 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,560 project like this to fill with things. 404 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,560 So it's it's definitely a great idea and and I mean Vault 405 00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,480 Caller's art is insane, so yeah. Yeah, he's he's great. 406 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:04,200 And yeah as you said I think maybe there is something similar 407 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,400 but with really thousands of of third party content it's 408 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,160 sometimes difficult to to find everything even though we have 409 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,720 actually breaks with with I think most of the projects that 410 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,480 are there to to be found in the Internet listed. 411 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,040 But still, you know, maybe someone, I don't know maybe 412 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,480 someone in Japan has done something like that in Japanese 413 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,520 and we we never seen it because we we, I don't know maybe you 414 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:32,320 do. But I don't. 415 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,360 I don't read Japanese. I only. 416 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,880 Have one Japanese workbook so far. 417 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,480 Yeah, I I've, I've, I've seen it and it looks great. 418 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,960 Probably we are probably talking about the same thing. 419 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,520 But either way, yeah, maybe maybe someone has done this and 420 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,640 and you know it kind of, it's becoming increasingly difficult 421 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,480 to promote part party work for content because there's just so, 422 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,200 so many different things. So and you know people's are 423 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,200 like you know they can back a lot of projects but they cannot 424 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,720 back to any projects at once and especially now with the Zine 425 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:13,160 quest there are a lot of great like amazing work work or cyber 426 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,760 projects. It's like I absolutely love but 427 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,080 personally I I cannot afford to back them all. 428 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:25,240 I I would love to but sometimes it it is difficult and and I 429 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,440 don't blame people for not supporting everything but but 430 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,520 the good thing is that it's it's a it's a community that really 431 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,680 supports third party content so much. 432 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,760 And I know that, you know, Johann and Pella and the whole 433 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,880 Stockholm cartel, they also support third party content if 434 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,120 they would and they would never do kind of the license for it, 435 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,280 but basically kind of the whole framework they've done and kind 436 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,080 of how open they are. It's it's it's amazing and 437 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,560 really kind of helps. You know, without more pork. 438 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,960 I wouldn't be here not only because I wouldn't be creating 439 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,480 Heretics Guide to Dying Lands, I would, I would not make able to 440 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,640 bar Peaches at all. I would probably be stuck at 441 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,480 some fucking corporate job soul sucking. 442 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,200 And I guess so. So. 443 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,000 Yeah. So. 444 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:15,960 Yeah. Thank you. 445 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,160 Thank you. Johann Pele, you kind of you've 446 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:23,280 changed my life, really. Honestly and yeah and I think 447 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,000 it's it's actually I think it worked the same for a lot of 448 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,480 people you know I know a lot of creators that really kind of 449 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,200 really started to to do this if not full time then part time if 450 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,200 not part time then just kind of aspiring to to to do this 451 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,720 professionally because of work work and and doing more work 452 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,240 related stuff which is amazing. You know, it's it's it's great. 453 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,760 Yeah, I mean you couldn't couldn't you know couldn't agree 454 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,680 more. I mean Johann is great. 455 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,240 I mean everyone at Stockholm is great. 456 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,600 You know they and as you said they support the the community 457 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,400 so much. I mean even some of their the 458 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,320 early stuff right after Merck work came out was community 459 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:07,960 stuff. They've seen to saw community 460 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,280 content. They used to have the Merck bore 461 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,080 cult. I mean, you know, the the 462 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,440 openness of the license we got mugs and and and shower curtains 463 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,240 and everything, but like it is, it is, you know, fantastic what 464 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,960 they did. And and again, it really changed 465 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,240 the indie space in an interesting way, even even as 466 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,040 far as like making people realize a little bit more that 467 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,760 like the more open you are at the community, the more people 468 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,520 will be in it which means the more you'll sell like it. 469 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,680 It all feeds itself. You know Mothership did 470 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,760 something similar or has like a similar very. 471 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,080 Community driven. Vibrant community. 472 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,560 Yeah. So it it's great to see and and 473 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,800 it's you know they did amazing work and like you said so many 474 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,000 people that have come on the show started with making 475 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,360 markport content or have made markport content and stuff like 476 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,120 that. And it's because it's a great 477 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,480 game. You know it it's light. 478 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,920 Like you said the vibes are through the fucking roof and a 479 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,240 lot of us are just a bunch of fucking Edge Lord dark assholes 480 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,720 that like gross dark shit. So it's it's it's fun to make 481 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,440 and play stuff, you know? Yeah, it is. 482 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,520 It is amazing And you know, you know, saying community is is 483 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,520 great and it's the backbone of of kind of the whole movement 484 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,560 and it's, you know, it's true. It's so true. 485 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,880 And even a community I have, which is not in thousands, but 486 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,600 still I I have my Discord channel where like 200 people, 487 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,960 maybe 50 are active and maybe 10 or 12 are really active. 488 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,960 But no matter. Like all the people who backed 489 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,120 any of my project and all the people who kind of commented 490 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,200 asked where the when the physical release will be because 491 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,960 they, you know haven't backed the Kickstarter for some reason. 492 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,160 And all the people who are kind of interested just it's it's 493 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,640 really, it's really something. It kind of feels that what I do 494 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,960 makes sense and I do this for someone, kind of someone who's 495 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,160 really enjoying what I do. And it's something I've I've 496 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:03,320 never felt before and I've never done anything that I would feel 497 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,240 like, yeah, that kind of I I'm doing something that someone's 498 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:12,120 going to use and and maybe have fun, which which actually is 499 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:18,840 what kind of really kind of sold me to to make tables of games. 500 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,400 Because you know, I could I I know I could write comic books. 501 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,520 So yeah, I could you know try to write a novel or whatever. 502 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,800 But such a passive kind of storytelling because because 503 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,920 then you kind of force your vision you kind of force the the 504 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,240 story onto the reader. When you make video game also 505 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,880 you you kind of create boundaries for for an experience 506 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,640 and making table to bar. PGI can kind of give people some 507 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,960 tools and they would tell their own stories and and that's 508 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,400 amazing because you know from from a little brat when I was I 509 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:59,480 know 567 I I always loved kind of telling stories and I would 510 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,120 drove my my parents and my friends nuts because we like 511 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,440 shut the fuck up after three hours talking about kind of a 512 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:13,160 zombie apocalypse thing you know just shut up and and kind of you 513 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,000 know knowing that I can pass this on to someone who will sit 514 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,040 at the table and create their own stories with with things 515 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:26,800 that kind of I helped create that's that's priceless so and 516 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:32,040 and also talking about Japanese stuff I recently seen some of my 517 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,840 work some of the kind of free stuff translated into Russian 518 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:42,080 and I already had different proposals of of doing Russian 519 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,800 translation of korbourg. Italian translation of Korbourg. 520 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,560 Polish translation of Korbourg like whoa this kind of this is, 521 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,560 this is, this is it feels nice, you know, because I'm interested 522 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,480 enough to to even, you know think about something like that. 523 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,160 So yeah, it's great. Yeah. 524 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:02,320 Community. Yay. 525 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,880 That's, you know, we wouldn't be here like you, you wouldn't be 526 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:11,440 here as well if if not for the people who kind of love RPGs and 527 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,199 and you know, kind of wants to support such amazing people as 528 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,679 as yourself, so. Yeah, completely there, Yeah. 529 00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:24,920 Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I think there's a lot of truth to 530 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,360 what you said. I also think that the stuff that 531 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,159 you create is really very fantastic and kind of speaking 532 00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:33,159 to what Ryan said, that there's and what you also said that 533 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,679 there's hundreds of Merck board projects. 534 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:40,440 But I feel like yours very much stand out as like a labor of 535 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,159 love of the space of Merck Borg. I mean, I can't tell you the 536 00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:48,239 last time I backed a Merck Borg project that wasn't Max just 537 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:49,880 because personally I'm a little burnt out on it. 538 00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:54,639 But I've I backed Heretic's guide because I'm like, Oh yeah, 539 00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:59,360 this is like such a great take on the space and the formula. 540 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:02,440 I think it creates like such high quality work in relation. 541 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,760 So I'm not shocked that people are reaching out, like, yeah, we 542 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,120 should translate this so we can we can use it because it's 543 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,600 really great stuff. Yeah. 544 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,040 And and we'll see, I'm probably, I will probably say no to 545 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:18,360 translating Corp work because for the similar reason that you 546 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,520 know SOCOM hotel don't really want to to translate more into 547 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,520 different languages. It would really interfere with 548 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:30,680 with the whole design and I guess maybe, maybe I will change 549 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:35,080 my mind one day, but definitely some of my other work will be 550 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,400 translated like The Whispers of the Woods. 551 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,480 I already have people who would translate this into Polish. 552 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,760 I'm not gonna, you know, I don't. 553 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,240 I could probably make games in Polish, but I will never do 554 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:51,240 that. Probably because, you know, we 555 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:54,040 have a such a fantastic community with, you know, a lot 556 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,160 of people. We have a very good kind of 557 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,360 crowdfunding platform and people are making amazing projects 558 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,280 there. But I've always felt, you know, 559 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,720 you know, doing more work, stuff that's not super popular in 560 00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:11,240 Poland, because in Poland people like to play in Polish. 561 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,560 Although a lot of people speak, you know, perfect English 562 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,720 through a lot of people in the RPG community that, you know, 563 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,040 they they prefer to have your books in in Polish, which is 564 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,880 fine. But yeah, I couldn't do both. 565 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,360 So if someone wants to kind of take my work and translate it, 566 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,880 I'm like, whoa, that's amazing. I'm, I'm happy to, you know, pay 567 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,080 you for it. But probably I would. 568 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,720 I would never do this myself. Yeah, well, so you also said 569 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:43,800 that the artist on this project says Vault Crawler. 570 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,800 And you said it was there. You know, one of their ideas 571 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,000 that kind of kicked it all off. How did you develop a 572 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,280 relationship with Voccrawler? Because it's got to be nice to 573 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,240 be friends with someone who's that good at art. 574 00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:57,000 Because you know something everyone's always looking for. 575 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:04,480 So actually, I think I found him online looking for artists, some 576 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,320 kind of RPG space. And I I I've seen his work and 577 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,200 was like, hey, would you, would you, can I kind of Commission 578 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,840 something? And we took it from there, 579 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,960 actually. But most of the artists I work 580 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:24,960 with, or I know, I kind of knew, I know for for for years now. 581 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,200 A lot of people are from the kind of comic book space in in 582 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:33,640 Poland and we have a lot of crossovers, especially lately a 583 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,960 lot of crossovers between comic books seen in Poland and and 584 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,760 tabled up RPGs in Poland. Which is great because we have 585 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,040 fantastic comic book artists. And actually yesterday I was 586 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:51,000 playing occasional play testing, a system my friend is, is is 587 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,280 working on and he's such a wonderful comic book creator. 588 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,120 He's one of the best. Like honestly, his work is 589 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,080 really kind of, you know, award-winning. 590 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:06,080 But he deserve so much more praise than he's got and I'm 591 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,080 super excited for his project. Like such a cool system, such a 592 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,480 cool idea. And it's great to see people 593 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,920 like doing things like that, crossing over and and and trying 594 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:20,840 to especially great artists kind of coming to different medium 595 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,840 and then doing illustration rather than did in comics. 596 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,520 And yeah, a lot of people I've worked with on core work are 597 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:35,320 from the comic book scene, so yeah. 598 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,080 Yeah, I mean again it's it must be super nice to to have that 599 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,720 and have that in your back pocket because the project does 600 00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:47,960 look absolutely fantastic and as I said before it is, it is on 601 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,840 backer kit. So it's it's not on Kickstarter. 602 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,440 We'll make sure that we put the links everywhere too. 603 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,680 But when people go to the backer kit link and back this project 604 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,320 because they absolutely should, what can they expect to get from 605 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,320 the project? Like, do you, are there a bunch 606 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,040 of tiers or or you know what? What's the what can they 607 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,120 actually physically get or digitally or whatever? 608 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,440 Yeah, So we really wanted to keep it simple, as simple as 609 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,600 possible. So you can get a digital copy or 610 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,600 you can get a physical copy. The physical copy is going to be 611 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,840 at least 44 pages. Well, it will probably be more 612 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,920 because already I see, I know we we need a lot of space to to 613 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,280 make it work. But yeah it's going to be you 614 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:33,040 know high quality print and and and that's it really because I 615 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,960 know it's it's such a drag doing a lot of different tiers and 616 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:41,080 different add-ons and we and we decided you know it's all in 617 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,160 there like the product will be complete like you'll have 618 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,960 everything you wanted to make is going to be in this book. 619 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,080 So it's simple you want digital, get digital, you want a physical 620 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,440 copy, you get a physical copy and and think it's we think it's 621 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,840 reasonably priced as well. So I think people should should 622 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,560 be happy and honestly I think a lot of people are getting a 623 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:07,320 physical version much more than I anticipated. 624 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:12,520 Usually it's like 65% people getting or 70% people getting 625 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,280 physical copy address getting digital and or kind of higher 626 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,840 tiers. But yeah, in here very few 627 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,320 people took the digital copy, which is great. 628 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,960 You know, paper is always paper and I think it's a bit easier 629 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:33,400 also to to use it when you create your map, being able to 630 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:38,320 quickly just turn the page on. So, so yeah, but that's that's 631 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,400 it, you know, that's that's really all there is. 632 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,160 And if we and we actually just a few minutes ago, we just hit our 633 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,560 first stretch goal which is a custom map template. 634 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,480 It's going to, it's going to be a template for you to print and 635 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,680 then you can roll onto this template and it will look cool. 636 00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,800 It will look professional. You'll have some some of those 637 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,800 one space to take notes and then you can make a photo, put it on 638 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,400 Instagram, people will be like whoa or oh that's great. 639 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,480 So, so that's that. And the next next next stretch 640 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:18,400 goal at 5666 Euros is going to be four additional pages. 641 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,920 And then the last stretch goal, should we get there is going to 642 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,080 be one page adventure, probably printed separately only. 643 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:34,080 Maybe like a folded bigger map like A2 Dimension or something 644 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,680 like that included for free for for every backer. 645 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,480 So that's that's yeah, we really wanted to keep it very simple. 646 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,040 You just get the game you don't get any kind of pins or whatever 647 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,800 and and I think you know, especially for Zen Quest it's 648 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,400 probably more reasonable because you know people are spending a 649 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,320 lot of money. So if you want it to be kind of 650 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,600 reasonably priced and and don't really throw a lot of different 651 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,560 options so people can just go and and and read what what it is 652 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,360 about and and back it in. That's it. 653 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,480 Yeah, I mean you couldn't agree more with that. 654 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,560 I I really hope a lot of people seem to be keeping projects 655 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,280 simpler now for so many reasons. One like you said in Zenequest 656 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,600 people want Zenes, not necessarily all the bits and 657 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,960 bobs, but you know post pandemic shipping is crazy. 658 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,040 Production costs are up like everything. 659 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,360 It's just there's so much more that goes into eating a whole 660 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,160 box full of stuff. I mean I've got got projects 661 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,000 that are that have been I've been waiting on for years now 662 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,880 because so much of it came with so much stuff. 663 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:42,080 So it's nice to actually back a project, see the project end and 664 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,440 then get the project when you still remember that you spent 665 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,520 money on it. So definitely, definitely like 666 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,720 to see that and especially if there's inquest that it's it's 667 00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:52,920 pretty straightforward and even the stretch goals really don't 668 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,080 add a whole lot. It's not like you're gonna right 669 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,520 like 50 more pages or bring in like 5 more people. 670 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:02,240 So it's it's it's really nice that it's gonna that it's 671 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,240 happening it will happen it'll you know anything extra will be 672 00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:07,760 done because the project is funded like you said it's 673 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,160 already at you know passing the first stretch goal and it still 674 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:19,160 has 10 days left on it. So so after that project's done 675 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,840 I know you're you'll have whispers of the woods working on 676 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,480 you'll have here's excited to the dying lane you're working 677 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,040 on. But what is kind of the feature 678 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,320 for Hell tongue storytelling for for Pelvis Kissman? 679 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,680 With anything on the docket or you, you you going to calm down 680 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,800 and and just finish the stuff you're on? 681 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,080 So that that's the problem that I cannot really slow down 682 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,920 because if I I need to kind of do campaign after campaign and 683 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,080 kind of reasonably kind of reasonable windows, right, I 684 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,200 need to have time to finish previous projects. 685 00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:01,120 But I guess it all kind of shifted a little bit because of 686 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:06,320 corporate usage took much so much time, but now I'm kind of 687 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,480 getting there. So I should get into a rhythm 688 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,240 and I should be on track with everything. 689 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,480 But I will have to start another campaign in a in a month's time 690 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:24,880 just to be able to pay my bills and and the next project will be 691 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:30,640 a a a different thing a solo solo game solo table RPG game 692 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:38,040 about is going to be set in a kind of medieval fantasy world 693 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:44,320 as as as you know it but it's kind of posts cataclysm so 694 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,360 people are kind of more pissed off and people are poor and it's 695 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:52,400 like you know everyone's not really super happy and your job 696 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:58,960 is to as a guardian of of of of giants your job is to deliver or 697 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:06,360 escort a the last giant across the lands so he can meet his or 698 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:13,560 her faith by the sea. And and yeah and again something 699 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:18,000 that I haven't seen done too many times I mean kind of escort 700 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:23,880 solar RPG but I also really wanted to make this because one 701 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:28,880 night I just couldn't sleep and I made the whole game and kind 702 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,600 of I've I made-up all all the kind of mechanics. 703 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,960 I have it on my phone. It took me a few hours and then 704 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,040 I couldn't sleep because I was so excited. 705 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,760 But it was a few months ago and I kind of, I always let my, my 706 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:49,200 ideas kind of you know sit and wait and and and boil and when 707 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,440 it's ready I I can you know press so that that will be my 708 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:58,200 next project. I'm actually, I should be 709 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:03,480 commissioning Art this week, so I should have some more 710 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:09,320 information about it soon. But yeah, but then I think I'll 711 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,520 have to go back to Morg Bork for also because I love it, that's 712 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,200 first thing. And also for marketing reason 713 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:20,960 because it's it's always a a bit easier to get people to back in 714 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,080 Morg Bork project because I know where to look. 715 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:28,120 I know those people, they know me a little bit, so it's a bit 716 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:29,880 easier. So it will probably look like 717 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,400 this that I'll do one kind of work project and then I'll do 718 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,040 one kind of more of a passion project and we'll see how it 719 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,240 goes. But after Corp Borg, I'm really 720 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:44,880 thinking about making another kind of a bigger hack. 721 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,000 So again kind of interesting setting based on those rules, 722 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,960 based on the kind of you know the the vibe, but something 723 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:59,080 very, very different. Again although it's not like a 724 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,360 Corp Borg is is unique because it's not because someone's done 725 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:09,800 more Corp about a few years ago and there is another project 726 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:19,320 called Mork Org done by by my friends from gosh from from 727 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,800 beyond Cataclysm and they're working on it so. 728 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:28,880 So that's great, but yeah, we'll we'll see and to hopefully I 729 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,480 will have a game to to kick start or to to put in background 730 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:39,640 or whatever that will not be mine, that I will publish 731 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,520 something that someone else has done. 732 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:47,080 Fingers crossed that would be really cool because yeah, the 733 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,200 project is amazing. So we'll see how it goes and 734 00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,160 yeah, and it's a grind. So yeah, there will be many more 735 00:47:55,160 --> 00:48:00,080 projects to come, and until I'm defeated or I'm victorious, 736 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,880 we'll see. I mean you know that's great to 737 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,360 see because you know as Hunter said before your stuff is, is is 738 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,400 really good. I really, really enjoyed. 739 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,920 I back to Court Borg. So I got it when the PDF first 740 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,240 came out and everything and it's really, really good And there 741 00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:19,680 is, there is so much Merck Borg stuff out there and some of it 742 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,760 is really, really good. A lot of it's fine. 743 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,920 But I do have to say like your stuff is especially Court Borg 744 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,200 is way up there at the top. So if you are going to be 745 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,600 bouncing from some passion project back to Mark Borg, it's 746 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,120 going to be nice to see that whether it's on Kickstarter or 747 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,880 Backerkit or or whatever it is. So I'm definitely looking 748 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,640 forward to more things coming out from Hilton and it sounds 749 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,600 like you have an idea to expand publishing other people's stuff 750 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,680 as well too. So, I mean, I can only imagine 751 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,880 that this is a more fun grind than the corporate grind. 752 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,000 But you know, we all know that it's hard work too, Yeah. 753 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,440 It is. It is fun grind and I, you know, 754 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,920 I'm so grateful that I can do this. 755 00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:01,000 I'm grateful to to my wife that she supported me. 756 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,600 I'm so grateful for all the people who kind of backed my 757 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,920 projects. And I'm grateful to people like 758 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,560 yourself who, you know, can take me in for for an interview and 759 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,920 spread the word. So yeah, thank you so much. 760 00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:15,800 Yeah, of course. So. 761 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,600 So where can people find not just this, it's on backer kit. 762 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,440 We'll make sure the link's down there and everything as well 763 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:22,520 too. But where can people find the 764 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:26,640 rest of of your things so they can find where Corp Org is and 765 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,120 everything we're talking about in our future things? 766 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:35,520 To most things are on H it's just let me Google the address. 767 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:36,560 Yeah. I just. 768 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,560 I have it. Yeah. 769 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,960 It's just yeah, it's her tongue. Dash storytelling dot H dot IO. 770 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,640 No creator ever knows their itch, and I always have it open. 771 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,320 It is, yeah. Thank you so much. 772 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:55,720 So there you can get Corp war in digital version, although a 773 00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,840 refined version with two additional pages will come 774 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,800 hopefully this week. I need to find some time just to 775 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,360 put it in there because I had to add 2 pages because the the 776 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:10,000 printer were like oh but it's it's not dividable by 4. 777 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,600 I'm like oh fuck I OK what do I do? 778 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,480 I just need to add 2 two more pages and call random tables. 779 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,880 So I did and then you can find basically every every other 780 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,520 project I made. Most of it it's for Morburg 781 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,400 Cyborg but some kind of one page games like cannons and kisses 782 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:32,280 which is a pirate hack for lasers and Feelings and super 783 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,200 Cool. I really like it and others and 784 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,080 kind of. You can also find me on Drive 785 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:42,120 through RPG, should you prefer that over each. 786 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:44,880 And yeah, that's that's where you can find. 787 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:49,520 And usually I go by my name and surname or by helping 788 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:54,240 storytelling, so both should give you some results. 789 00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:57,600 Yeah, there's only one holding storytelling, and there are a 790 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:02,120 couple Pavel Kitman's, but if you just put RPG or Borg or 791 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:03,880 anything like that, that's going to be me. 792 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,000 Thank you. And and like we said, we'll make 793 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:08,360 sure that all the links are on the bottom. 794 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,720 But Pavel, thank you so much for coming on. 795 00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:14,240 You know I've I've been backing your stuff since Court Borg and 796 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,840 looking forward to all the stuff you do in the future. 797 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,720 And this will, I can only assume not be the last time you hear 798 00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:22,920 about Pavel here on the show. So we really appreciate you 799 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,920 being here. Thank you and thank you so much. 800 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,400 So that's it. So that'll be our episode for 801 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:32,800 today. Again, thank you, Pablo, for 802 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,240 being here. You know where all of our links 803 00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:36,360 are. They're on the screen. 804 00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:37,520 They're below. It is what it is. 805 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,280 We'll make sure that you can find Pablo everywhere we go. 806 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,000 And that'll be it for today. Thank you. 807 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,120 And have a good day, everybody. Bye.