Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll Podcast.
My name is Ryan and joining me today is Fiverr.
How you doing this morning Fiverr?
I'm good. How are you?
You know, just I'm getting there.
I did find my coffee eventually and I'll be sipping on it and
then we'll be good. Cool, cheers.
I have water in a chainsaw man cup so you know there.
You go. Are you?
Are you a reader or a watcher
and or both? A watcher and if anyone spoils
it for me, I'll cry. I will not.
I'm a reader, so I will not. I will, I will keep my mouth
shut. So, so fiber.
We, we met recently at a deputy con.
But for those that don't know you, who who the heck is fiber?
What would people know you for? I'm just a little guy.
No, I, I made a skirmish game called Snack 28.
I wish that was the thing that I was currently best known for.
But I think what still tops it is I was the person who painted
the ice cream nights in the Golden Demon case.
That's what people ask me a lot. They're like, was that you?
I'm like, yes, that was so. You can you can be two things.
I can be two things, both of them candy related.
Yeah. And yeah, again, we met at
Depticon. I think you were probably the
first person I even saw Depticon because I rolled in early to
pick up my my print copies of my game.
And you were hanging out waiting to pick up the print copies of
your game. Yeah.
Which is right here. Printed from.
Yeah. In fact, we printed from Grub,
Grub Press, Flatulent in the Fool, Shane the Blind Man.
And then I was like, oh, I you're awesome.
I love your game. Can I please have all of your
miniatures? So for those watching, I have
almost all of them. I feel like I bought the all
sorts one from Ramshackle a while ago, but next time I put
an order in, I'm getting the bear berserker and obviously
getting the cupcake colossus. Awesome.
But Oh yeah. Then it was like, hey, Oh yeah,
we're going to show those off when we do the review later this
week. We're going to be reviewing
snack 28. Those that are watching this
now, we maybe today or tomorrow I will put the VOD from when 100
and I played it up on our Twitch.
So you can actually see us play Snack 28.
But I'll be showing off a lot of the miniatures on the review
this weekend. But yeah, Adept Con, I think
you're the first person I actually get to talk to Adept
Con about here on the show. So how is your Adepticon?
My Adepticon was great. I mean, this was far and away
like the most, I would say, successful Adepticon that I've
had. My New Year's resolution this
year was just to bet. On my my own art.
Just a little bit more. So usually I would be.
Like a little bit hesitant to invest money in like getting
stuff printed to try and sell out of my backpack at Adepticon,
but I was like, you know what? Screw it.
I've been cautious for a while. I'm just going to I'm going to
do just a little a little step more than I usually would.
And I sold out of all of my copies of Snack 28 and almost
all of my miniatures. So it did super, super well.
I had like so many great, like business E conversations, I
guess about people who are like, yeah, we want to do something
with Snap 28, which was really cool.
But then also people just like seeing friends again and really
like getting to hang out with people and and socialize.
In in like a way where everybody is is just chill about
everything and also not getting misgendered constantly was super
cool. So the the like group back in
the the grim dark hallway is always really chill about that
stuff. And it's just nice to to to be
in that space for as long as possible.
Yeah, the grim dark alley is definitely the place to be.
You know, if you're part of the in Rust, we trust, you know,
community. And it's just so nice to not
like, it just feels like a smaller con within the con.
And it feels so much more open, like everyone's just, oh, I'll
pull up a chair and just do whatever I want to do right now
and everyone's cool with it. It feels like being a kid and
visiting your cousins and like your cousins are older and they
have their cool friends over, but instead of like you being
pushed to like go draw on the corner or something, they're
actually letting you play the violin video game too and get
excited when you like shoot the guy.
That's how it feels. It's just like everybody's there
to just like show you their cool video games that have a good
time and you feel like everybody is cooler than you, but
everybody feels like you're cooler than them.
So everybody's just chilled. There's no.
Big egos or anything like that? Yeah, no, I definitely spent way
more time in the grim dark alley than I did in the actual
convention. I completely, even if I got to
go check out all the Golden Demon stuff this year, I was
just down there so much because I was running my game a little
bit, which is really cool. And then I think I bought
everything I wanted to buy on the first day and then tried to
not buy anything else for the another four days that it went
on for like the longest convention every year for some
reason. But but it worked out.
And then also we randomly found out because I I was over with
Adam, we're just talking about world champ Gameco.
And then we randomly found out that Shane from girl guard press
and Steve from big boy game time as well as Anthony.
We're literally in our duplex so we didn't find out for the next
day and the first night both of us separately were like, oh we
can't be too loud at night, we don't want to wake up the other
people. And then found out the next day
that the other people were like our friends.
So like it. It worked out really well, which
is cool. I slept in every day, but I
think Adam and and Matt were like going up and down the
stairs and hanging out with the other side every day and it was
cool. Yeah, Adepticon was a was a
great times, great time to be away.
And then I immediately had to work like 4 more days and got to
take off to go to a brain dead fest.
So I feel like I just had a three-week vacation.
Oh, you. Are brain dead.
Too. I was, yeah.
It was really cool. Got to a couple of the Hives Cup
guys were there when he was there.
Caleb. Yeah, Caleb's great, Caleb.
'S great. 232 and others and Wizards and Wenches is his
podcast, I think. Yeah.
Absolutely, definitely. We got, we're going to cross
pollinate those a little bit. But yeah, super cool guy.
I met a lot of really cool people down there was very, it
was so LA, it was like one of the most LA experiences I've
ever had. But I think I think their heart
is mostly in the right place and I hope they do another one.
And Elijah would put on a very good but random DJ set.
So there was a fun way to run the.
Hard way from My Chemical Romance showed up which would
have been crazy for me. I was obsessed when I was like
12. Yeah, Gerard Ray was like, I
think one of the first people that rolled in and literally
went to a couple of booths, like bought everything, like took
some pictures and left, which is cool.
There was a bunch of random people like Blake, I don't know
what his real name is, but the curly haired guy from
Workaholics was there. Iffy and Waddy Way was there.
Yeah, from. Drop out.
Yep, he put on one of Witty's like little crop teas that was
way too small for him, but he's jacked as fuck.
So like it just looked good. It was interesting, made some
cool new friends. So so yeah, it was cool.
It was a good time. It was cool to have it bump
right up to Adepticon and Adepticon's at a weird time next
year. So we'll see what what happens
with that. I guess it's like 2 weeks later
than normal, but we'll. See, they're doing it in April
for some. Reason.
Which is, I mean, I'll still go, I'm not gonna not go.
It's just weird. Well, it's weird, but also like
I, I'm doing like 6 cons this year and I'm trying to do even
more next year. Going to see about that PTO.
But in March there's a ton of cons for some reason like Gary
Con and stuff that are all over there, a little bit more TRPG
related. So now that might give me a
little wiggle room to be able to do that and then adopt Con.
We'll see how it goes, but I assume you're going to go to
adopt Con next year. Yeah, Adepticon, I'll always be
at as as many years as I can go My my friends always go and I
don't live too, too far from the the area, so it's an easy 1 to
get to you're. One of those, you're one of
those midwesters. Every time, every person I run
into at Adepticon, it's like, oh, I'm from Chicago and I'm
like, God damn it. Like why?
The West Coast is barren for a tabletop.
For the most part. So.
That's that's too bad. Yeah, it's funny.
I was talking to some people about it and I think it's
because people can just go outside like all year round
instead of being like stuck inside in in the cold months.
So they just do that and I'm like, well, I don't.
So I wish other people would just stay inside.
But snack 28, we played it the other day.
You ran, I think less demos, you said than the year before, but
you have a gorgeous board for it.
So for those that have not seen it yet, make sure you go back.
I'll make sure the Internet, there's links where, where you
think they are. Look where where things go,
people. But.
Trust you, use your brains you can find.
It yes you you, you are. This will not be your first
YouTube video. Click the links.
But for those that have not been initiated into the candy cult,
what is Snack 28 like? What makes Snack 28 Snack 28 to
you? Snack 28 is a game that I made
because I wanted something that was as violent as any other war
game but looked cute. So I feel like the cuteness
should not be separated from the violence.
That's very quintessential Snack 28.
But it's a game about people made out of food trying to
cannibalize each other. It's it's it's my favorite game
that I've ever made. It's also the only game that
I've ever made, but I put my whole heart and soul into it.
It's it's very low math. It's very like rules.
Easy because I don't. I, I don't live for the crunch.
I can't do complicated equations and shit like that.
It just doesn't work for me. But I wanted something that was
fun, had some random elements, had some strategy, but was
actually like, you can read the book within, like, you know, a
couple. You can read the rules within a
couple of minutes and get a basic idea of how it works.
Yeah, and it is. I mean it pretty much is 4 up
with a couple modifiers and move the monster around based on the
AI. And it was so much fun.
I Hunter when we played the other day had already made his
war band and I didn't mine's actually on my board in front of
me. I literally just use I had this
like dry erase board in front of me.
I literally created it right on stream.
It just wrote a couple things down on here and we were able to
hop in and play, which was which was really fun and easy.
And the monster it's make why? So what?
What made you want to put a Pve element into it?
Because that honestly might have been like my favorite part of
the game was the times where me and Hunter had to decide, OK, am
I gonna hit you or are we gonna work together, kill the monster
first or like, what are we? What are we doing?
So what made you want to put a Pve element into into the game?
Well, originally it was just because I wanted to paint and
design monsters. I had the thought that I would
use some of my. Like candy nights in the game,
they ended up being base size far too big for that to work,
and so that was pivoted. But.
The idea of PVPVE was really just because when you are like
starting a big war game like the first tabletop game that I
really. Tried to play was Warhammer and
that was a big mistake. It's too freaking.
It's it's a bad place to start, but.
It's hard to know like what you're the goal is in Warhammer,
Like who should I be attacking? Should I be prioritizing
objectives? But like if it's like, OK,
you've got three guys, they have three guys.
There is also a big threat that like adds just enough in my mind
like randomness and chaos so you can understand what all the
objectives are because the way you win always is by being the
last guy alive and the monster can win and your opponent can
win as well. But like that was just enough
variation to it that I was like, OK, that'll that'll have some
randomness, some like some some clarity in terms of the goal and
it'll be slightly different because I don't know a lot of
other PVPVE games. Also, I noticed that when like
when playing demos of games, I would usually be like at a
convention with like a group of people and usually I would walk
up and, and if I wanted to demo something, I had just like a
person standing with me watching the demo.
And like they would also be learning, but they wouldn't
actually be the 1 rolling the dice or anything.
But with snack, if you have a random person, they can just
they can just control the monster.
You can like if, if, if a parent or a pair of like, you know,
like a brother and sister or whatever are there, it's like,
yeah, you can play. How about you be the be the big
guy and try and kill your dad and like that's fun.
Yeah, no, I was just going to ask.
So do you, do you have a third person or do you play the
monster a bunch when you're doing it?
And would you with the third person, they can just do
whatever they want within the context of it's just another
character not following the AI, right?
Yeah, they can. I mean, I would still like go
over how the the monster typically works, but I mean
there's there's nothing that can convince.
Like a six year old not to cheat at a game.
We have one of our play testers who play tests with their kids
and he's like, yeah, you're not aware of the amount of cheating
that goes on in a game of Snack 28 in my house.
But we have a good time. And like that's the important
part. I'm not building this for
competitive play where people can like optimize, you know,
what snack they take. And it's silly, right?
If you're like, oh man, well, you got to take death by
chocolate and Baja blast and and all of these abilities like you
just sound, you sound. Silly saying if you're trying to
met a snack, 28 so. And it's funny because you named
like 2 of the abilities that that Hunter took.
He literally was hitting me with Baja Blast, which is like one of
my favorite things IRL. So it was, it's really funny the
way you put all that in when you're when you're making the
game. Do you 'cause they're a bunch of
monsters and you describe it as an asymmetric game, What did you
find more fun to do? Like create new characters to
play or as in like your miniatures and things?
Or creating new monsters to to eat the players.
I like the design aspect much more.
Drawing the pictures is fun. Having to figure out what they
do on the tabletop so that their ability is distinct from other
monsters abilities but also makes sense is a lot.
Harder like I. I had, I had talked with my
design team. I have my wonderful editor
Cameron, who's always helping me with stuff he's so good at, like
organizing things and and helping to.
Get set up for play testing and like running things through
things through and Cameron's partner G is like a real war
game strategist. So has that really like
analytical mind. The the two of them are great
for like just running an idea by and being like is this a real
idea or is this nothing? Because I had one monster that I
was going to try and do that was like a giant milk carton that
would slowly like leak milk in like a floor is lava situation
and slowly flood the board. And they were like, there's no
practical way. To flood a board with chocolate
milk that makes sense that you can easily write within the time
frame that you have. And I'm like, in my head, I was
visualizing it so clearly and then putting it in terms of
practicality. I was like, yeah, that does make
sense. Having to judge what height
you're at in a building constantly is not.
It's not in line with keeping snacks simple and like easy to
to just sort of roll up and go with.
But yeah, it's stuff like that where it's just like sometimes
I'll have a really cool idea for how something could work and
then in practicality, the like rules writing for it would be
really complicated or really difficult to keep track of.
So always designing the creature is more fun than having to
actually nail down the rules for them.
I think you could do a flooded thing though, but that might
need to be like its own specific board for demo purposes and
stuff like that. But that sounds awesome to have
to be like, all right. Like suddenly the board like
drops an inch and there's just like a brown like layer and it's
just like that's the milk ocean and your candy and cookies and
things. So you can't dip into the milk
or you're going to melt. And that's awesome.
Yeah. No, that's, that's, that's
awesome. It was a great idea, just
impossible for me to. Figure out how to accomplish in
a rules writing way in the time that I had because I really
wanted to get the the full expanded edition ready for Adept
to Con. And then what, what did you
expand on this edition versus like the the one you had last
year, anything like what is the, what is what, what makes this
one a little bit different? Yeah, so there's some new art in
there. There's five more.
Monsters and there's the mounted combat is like the new the new
thing because that isn't in the original 1.
There's a little bit more lore in there and then there's a
couple just like alternate play modes that people have been
asking for. They were like, oh man, what if
we had a battle Royale? Mode and I'm like.
Taking the monster out of the game kind of makes it less
snack, but if you want that, sure.
I mean like that's an easy scenario to write up and then
like. One of the alternate rules in
there is just adding fall damage because so many people have
encountered situations where they shove someone off of
something and they're like. Do I take damage for that?
And I'm like, rules as written, No, you don't.
But I do see how that could add fun to the game.
So if you want it, it's there. It's all about just sort of
adding stuff to it. But I hate when a game updates
and then it's like, oh man, all the rules that I worked so hard
to try and figure out how they work.
They don't matter anymore, it's all different.
So like none of the core rules of snack have changed, it's just
adding stuff in if you want to use it.
So wait a minute, you're not going to redo your rules
entirely every three years on a rotation so we can get to snack
28 tenth edition, 11th edition, we can go back to Snack again
for the 4th time or something. I'm going to do that.
I'm going to make sure that I do that.
It's going to cost more every time.
You're going to have to rebuy all of your codexes for all the
snacks and then I'm going to give you one hour long
presentation with 16 technical issues where I only announced
one cool mini. I think that will be really the
the best way for snack to go in the future.
And then you can just make that mini exactly the same as all the
previous minis, but just give it the head and the knees of like
the first edition of the minis. And then you're going to go.
And then people will go crazy. They'll be like, oh man, this is
just like Snack edition one. And I'll be like, yeah, it is.
And I'll just be like, at least it's not ultramarines or or
blueberries or whatever we're going to call this here.
So you're also you're, you are, you are sugar candy miniatures
and you had miniatures to sell. So on top of the game design
aspect, do you actually, do you make the miniatures?
Do you print the miniatures? Like how do how do your
miniatures happen? So I have a fantastic sculptor
that I hire. Mageworks, who digitally sculpts
them and then they're they're 3D prints like any other.
The ones that you can buy through Ramshackle games are
resin cast and they're really, really nice.
But I design them. I do all the concept work.
I send it over to Mageworks and then we work together adjusting
like little things, changing stuff here and there to make
sure that it gets translated from, from the 2D drawing to the
3D sculpt as much as possible. I have tried 3D sculpting before
and I hate it. I, I like a lot of sculpting is
you're kind of on a XYZ grid system and that is like putting
math into art for my brain. It doesn't work for me.
And fortunately I just, I found someone fantastic to work with
who, who does great work and I'm, I'm, I'm totally satisfied.
I see no reason to, to change that workflow.
I'm happy to pay someone to sculpt stuff and have it come
out perfect. Yeah, and they they look
incredible. Again, I'll show them off when
we're actually do the review. But you have some new characters
this year versus what you had last year.
So what for, for, for again, for those that have not yet seen the
book, what are some of the kind of characters that you have in
the game specifically? I mean, you have one that is
like the size of a toddler that you bring around, but what are
what are some of the characters and and even some of the
monsters as well that people can get to play with?
So the one the the big guy that I have his name is all sorts.
He's he's the mascot. He's he's my favorite character
that I've probably ever designed.
He's on the. The the the page.
He's the only one in color. There my camera's probably too
crappy to show it off, but he's just like a little cat bear
rabbit thing that has a funny little face that I drew and and
I love him. He's great.
People can have their own different little head cannons
about what his back story might because I didn't I didn't put
any of my like model characters in as as NPC's or anything like.
That, but I have my own little ideas for their backstories.
That maybe if campaign mode for snack 28.
Is is being worked on in the background?
Then then people might get to know a little bit more about
their backstories. In the future, which would be
fun, but for now? For now, there's nothing written
in stone. So so so.
But there might be a campaign mode at some point?
Is that what I just heard? Might.
Be a campaign mode. I had some good conversations
with people at Adapticon and I want to make sure that I'm
making stuff and people have have have asked for a campaign
mode. So that's that might just be
kind of cooking in the background and we'll see if that
goes anywhere. If it cooks, what what what?
What would what, What broad strokes are you thinking?
Bigger war bands? You're thinking cooler stuff
like what could. Kind of like RPG based I guess
is is the the best way but like I don't know if you are familiar
with Warhammer curse. City at all.
Not necessarily the nobody could buy it because the pre-order
system was terrible and then they dropped the coverage for
it. That's like the shitty.
Part of it, but the idea. Of of you being guys going
through a city infested with vampires is really cool.
That's a that's a cool idea of setting.
I like it and there are in the in the lore of Snack 28, there
are canonical vampires because vampires are just cool and I
like Castlevania and Vampire Hunter D.
So it would be more of like trying to figure out what's
going on in this in this in this castle of Vaughn appetit
vampires that exist in in the story and going through there.
More. Of like a sort of like explore
an area, defeat a specific monster and then there'd be some
kind of like power up system. Probably I'm talking with people
who are better at writing narrative campaigns than than I
am. Because, again.
The the rules part. Isn't where I feel I shine the
most, it's more in the ideas and and design aspect of it but not
the actual. Mechanics.
So just seeing how that would work, but it would it would be
kind of like discovering just a like fun little story to go
through and seeing if you could. Liberate a little town and and
take back maybe a part of the the Snack 28 world from from the
the vampires who are currently in control of it.
And you have. So I think I must have an older
version because in the one I have in my hands, you have my
new favorite character in here. But on my PDF I don't.
So I'm going to go to Itch right now and find that.
Yeah, the the PDF currently on. Itch It is the old version.
I'm launching the the digital updated version on the same day
that Snack 28 is officially published and out with the
flatulent and the fool. So you can buy it like the print
copies directly from them and the itch will get updated with
that latest version that's coming out on May 9th.
So the the the one online isn't up to date just yet.
But if your favorite character is the bat on the worm, like so
many other people's favorite, I've got, I've got the.
Let's this guy. Yeah, it won't.
It won't focus. There you go.
I saw a painted one. That the worm.
Yeah. The Worm.
Incredible. And then?
The bat ready to go. Too and you have multiple bat
miniatures because you have the I think they're what like 3
different ones? Aren't there two different
weapon ones and then a guy riding?
Or is it just the 1 weapon one and the guy riding?
There's 1 weapon one but he technically has there's one
where he has an actual. Like sculpted flag and one where
he just has the banner pole because I like making paper
flags. So I when I was designing the
mini, I told my sculptor, hey, can you do one with a flag and
one without just so I can make a paper banner?
And then it's like, yeah, other people might want to do that as
well. So but then he has a standing
variant where he has a cool hammer that is made to look like
those grandma. Strawberry candies.
So yeah, 'cause you can get. On and off the the mounts in the
game, so I wanted to make sure that anyone we had with a rider
pose also just had like a standing pose so you can.
Paint both or. One or neither, whatever you
want. But I mean, I only design
miniatures that I really really want to paint, so I'm super hype
about all of them. They looking good.
I have the page up right now that has the original model
catalog with all sorts and crinkle and honey Bear and the
cupcake Colossus. And then for those when you go
get the new version of it, you now you added the roll cake
night on a hippocampus. You got licorice, my favorite on
the gummy worm. You got Professor Pork Chop.
What's Professor Pork Chop made of?
He's he's just a little pig. My editor Cameron was like there
should be a pig Kingdom in Snack 28 and really campaigned for a
pig. I'm painting mine to be mint
chocolate chip with a little doughnut hat.
And little like birthday cake candle explosives.
So Professor Pork Chop was just I suck at designing ranged
weapons because it's all either crossbows or guns really.
And I'm not good at drawing guns or crossbows.
So he has he has little candle molotovs that he can throw,
which is not only more fun, but way easier to draw.
And it's incredible. And then also in the book here,
we we touched on it briefly. The board that you made for this
is incredible. Like tell me about is a lot of
this 3D printed a lot of this like scratch built?
Like how did you make this board?
So the board is largely 3D printed just because I have
incredible friends. It's mostly the hagglethorn
hollow line of terrain and then a couple other.
There was like someone. Who made like a build your own
gingerbread house kid whose name escapes me right now, but that
was great. And then there's one, there's
one building that is from Mallifo.
They have like a lot of really cool terrain, but it's a real
pain in the ass has to build. So just just one manifold
building there. But it's all it's it's just
painted. To to look like.
It's made out of candy. I've got like a I've got, hang
on, I've got a little billboard right up here that I can show
you for Jelly Bean Junction. So that's just painted and then
I have on the other side play Snack 28.
So that was really fun to paint up.
But like the little walkways and stuff or just just pop sticks
that are are painted. And I love doing freehand.
That's that's my favorite part of painting.
So I did wood grain on all of them.
And at the time when I was sitting there painting wood
grain for like 1,000,000 hours, I was like, is this worth it?
And then so many people when I demoed it the first time were
like, all that wood grain looks sick.
And I'm like. Yes, that was worth it.
It got complimented so much. But yeah, it was just, I knew
that in order to like, sell the idea of the game, I needed to
have a. Board that people could just
look at and immediately know like, OK, this is Candyland.
Like this is not, this is not Trench Crusade.
This is not any like Warhammer setting.
Like it's its own setting. It's its own thing.
It's its own vibe. And that was like, I knew that
was a really important aspect because the first year that I
entered one of my ice cream nights.
In Golden Demon, when I was just pulling it out to show like a
friend while I was waiting for the the, the thing to open up so
you could drop things off, like four or five people came up to
me and we're like strangers were like, oh, that's really sick.
What is that? And I was like, OK, so there's
something there that's grabbing attention.
So if I want people to notice this, having a board that is
done up the same way, it's the same level of like not quite the
same level of detail because you know, it's terrain, but like a
similar level of, of, of spectacle that will pull people
in is going to be really important for people having a
good time. And also, frankly, I really love
the spreads in like codexes and White Dwarf and stuff like that
where there is an immersive board.
It really, it hits different when you see something and it's
like, oh, that's the coolest thing I've ever seen.
So I wanted that for myself as well.
Yeah, no, yeah. I mean, scatter train on a
neoprene mat is fine to play a game, but when you can roll up
to something that is like, it feels like the world, it
definitely makes a huge difference.
And then and you're the the touches that you have on your
board. First of all, the fucking the
thing that got me immediately was the upset on Candy Cohen is
like the top of the tower that instantaneously like puts you
into the world. But then when you look at like
the fine details, you can see even just from this image, the
the candy cane corners, the cookie window shades, the icing
like on the on the corners of the building for like the
gingerbread stuff. And then just like the color
scheme you pick like it just screams like cotton candy and
icing and frosting and and stuff.
It's just it's incredible. I mean, from across the room,
especially at a place like Adepticon, where, as you said,
you know, everyone around you is probably playing Nekromundo or a
trench crusade or like grim gritty shit in the whatever
century. And then you just see this like
frosting covered bore rolling through with like a giant
cupcake on the middle. It your brain just like
immediately does like a, like a spit take, you know, and you're
like, I have to know what the fuck's going on here, you know?
Yeah, when I was demoing last year, they.
Put me in, Well, they didn't put me in, to be fair, My friend
Tom, who has incredible, incredible Mordheim boards.
I talked about wanting to demo a game and he was like, well, I've
got a little bit of extra space on my table.
How much room does your game take up?
And I was like, oh, it's two by two.
Like I wanted something that wasn't just called like kitchen
table, but actually could fit on a standard kitchen table with
room for you to have your drink and your dice and your snacks
and play a game. And two by two was the perfect.
Size for that. So he was like, yeah, just come
set it up, whatever they put us in.
The Trench Crusade room. We were demoing in the Trench
Crusade room and I was so mortified when I found out.
I was like, Oh no, this is the worst place that I could be.
No one's going to like this here.
But then I ended up making friends with like all of the
people who are demoing Trench Crusade.
I don't know if you know Sammy and Jared and like a couple, I
think. I think Caleb was there too.
But like so many people were just coming up like in between
their Trench Crusade games and being like, what is this?
What's going on here? This is different.
I saw this that I had. To know what it was.
So that was really cool. And that was eye opening for me
about my own like assumptions because it's, it's a little.
Scary to be like, hey my indie game is an indie game.
I swear it has violence, but it doesn't look like any of the
other indie games. But that that ended up being a
huge asset because people were just psyched about it.
And a lot of people, their feedback has been my partner
will actually play this one with me or my partner saw like one of
the miniatures that I had or saw the cover and was like.
OK, I'll try this game with you. And that wasn't something that
like I had thought would happen, but it was something that went
into the design. Where I was like.
OK, people who aren't like the typical gamer should be able to
just look at the character creation page.
Read through it and not have any questions about making a
character. And it's like for making a
character, you choose three things.
There's no math involved. There's like.
People are like, why does this not cost anything in coins or
equipment? And I'm like, because I don't
want to do the math. Because math isn't fun.
Making a more time war band is not fun to me because I have to
do math. With this, I have to choose
three things. I can get it done in 10 minutes
at most. You know, like it's, it's not a
problem. So just hearing that and and
having people's partners actually play snack 28 with them
or paint the miniatures with them is super cool feedback to
hear. I'm I'm always so happy about
that. Yeah, I mean, as you said,
people that are like the partners of the people that are
in the Trench Crusade room, but also parents and kids and stuff
that you said were were coming through and playing it.
And it's also I think the only scrimmage game I played with
cannibalism in it. So like you definitely do have
you definitely do some violence in there.
Like you definitely you're still shooting people.
Like I had my miniature had this giant Gatling on.
I was just like, I'm just blasting sprinkles at you for
like 2 actions and then I'll just like hop down and try to
eat you. A hunter ended up eating the the
marshmallow monster, which was which was cool.
I'll throw that up on here real quick.
So looking at some of the monsters, you got the mint
chocolate popsicle frog guy here in the back.
You got the this is who we played with on ours, the
marshmallow monster with their two passive ingredients.
I love the the burnt to a crisp, which makes sense.
The guy's on fire. So if you start in base to base
contact, you're just on fire. The ginger Snapdragon and then
the one the, I would say the other kind of like mascot
character in my head for Snack 28.
It's all sorts. And the cupcake colossus.
Yeah, and it's people. Really.
People really like him? Let me grab him.
I have all of my snack 28 miniatures on a shelf nearby so
I can show off OK. Yeah, here he is.
He's beautiful. I love him.
He's such a little guy, he is. He's got his handles.
He is indeed a little guy and your painting is incredible.
Like you. You really?
Thank you. Make things look like desserts,
which is the point, but also they're they're really fantastic
and obviously with your with your ice cream nights too.
So. Yeah.
I guess. I guess I usually do this in the
beginning, but we'll wind back a little bit farther.
So what got you into skirmish and wargaming in the 1st place?
And how did that turn into ice cream nights?
Like why so much dessert options?
Well, that the why so much dessert is it's just because
it's it's the aesthetic that. I like, I mean, you can see the
room. It's, it's painted pink.
You can't see them, but they're like pictures and art and stuff
of ice cream on the walls. I've always been.
Drawn little candy, guys. That's just, it's just the
aesthetic that I enjoy it. Like it's no different from I
assume most indie games or or war games draw from like people.
'S love of like the the war aesthetics or like black metal
album aesthetics that they like It's it's literally.
No different than that. But I think I got into Warhammer
mostly during COVID. I was just like something to do.
Had been playing D&D for a little while.
And I mean, you, you show me a little tiny guy and I'm like,
yeah, OK, I want to know how to paint the little tiny guy.
So I went to learn to paint. Night at my local game store and
I painted like one of those whiz kid miniatures and I was like OK
this is sick. Actually, I really enjoy doing
this. And then I just wanted goblins
and and orcs for my D&D monsters and.
At the time the the runt herder like squig guy from from
Warhammer 40K that box was cheaper than buying individual
little like whiz kids orcs miniatures.
And I thought the goblins were orcs.
I did not know a. Lot about Warhammer at the time,
so I kept calling the grots in their orcs.
But I was like, oh, this is a good value.
You know, there's like there's like 10 guys in here and it's
like, I don't know, like 20 bucks or something like that.
And then I get home and I open it and there aren't little guys
in there. There's actually just a sprue.
And I'm like, oh, OK, this is this is different.
So I took to YouTube and started started getting into it.
Started watching like Goobertown Hobbies.
And and and miscast and like all the other hobby Youtubers and
stuff like that. And I was like, oh, this is like
a whole big cool world. So it was just it was just from
there. But yeah, painting DND
miniatures and then learning that there were there were tons
of other games and and stuff like that.
I tried to learn Warhammer. I think the.
Spectacle of an army is so cool but it's it's just not for me.
I don't like the actual game itself.
It's one of those. So I'm I'm in the process of
putting together a night Lords horse heresy army and I know
that I am going to play the game like twice with a friend and
then never do anything again. But like I want the experience
of having like 80 painted dudes like on the board but skirmish
is definitely singing in my brain.
But when I started it was fucking goblins too.
If you could see the crates of like the whiz kids.
I used to be able to name every model, model number from all
like 13 different lines they put out because I have like 90% of
them. Because I started with oh, I'm
running a campaign for friend or I'm running a game for friends.
Because I started playing D&D in 2014.
At the start I said I just need 5 goblins and some of five
goblins became like 1000 little guys in boxes in my closet.
But trust me, it never starts with just goblins.
Guys, if you get goblins, you're going to keep going.
But but, yeah, back then I was like, I'm just going to, I knew
what Warhammer was once I kind of got into D&D and was like, I
can't get into Warhammer because it's going to be too expensive.
And then I got into tabletop games and was like, I just spent
the money somewhere else and made no fucking difference.
But yeah, yeah, I think the spectacle, yeah.
Being able to field 3000 points will feel really cool while I'm
setting it up. And then five hours into the
game when I still have no idea what's going on, I feel like
it's going to feel less cool. But at least I'll have done it.
And that's that's where I'm at. I feel so bad.
I want my ice cream nights to see battle someday.
I just don't. Want to be.
I don't want to get in the robot Shinji.
I do not want to be piloting them like they're beautiful and
they deserve to be seen, but I am not the person to take them
into battle. Absolutely not.
It's not for me. I can't even imagine how many
points you need to have in opposing armies to be able to
field a couple of of nights like that.
It's not going to be like a small.
No, it's going to be big because I've got, I've got.
Three of the big ones and. Four of the baby ones and they
put out a new pattern, chassis, whatever the a new kit for a
different night that's basically the same but slightly different
and I'm like hell yeah, now I have an excuse to buy a fourth
big guy. It's so funny to me that I can
imagine your mini shelf being like Cupcake guy, all sorts Guy,
Licorice, Bat Guy, 7 Warhammer Nights painted like ice cream,
like, yeah. That's that's not inaccurate to
how it is. My nearest display cabinet has
all of my Knights in it and then it has like another shelf that
has like a lot of miniatures that friends gave me or that
like I built for a specific game.
And then the bottom shelf is like this collaborative clown
themed gloomspike gets army that like I I've made with a bunch of
other Youtubers and friends as like a, a pride thing just to
like paint a weird army. So every model is painted by
like a different person. And I didn't expect so many
people to be into it. And now I have this army and I
never started that project with like a purpose of what to to do
with it. At the end.
I just wanted to make something weird for Pride because
everybody was just sort of painting like rainbow flag
stuff, which is cool. But I was like, well, I'm queer
and I like clowns and stuff, so let's do that.
And then friends were into it. But I have like, yeah, I think I
have a full 2000. Points just about unclean spike.
It's that I don't, I don't know what to do with.
I should have had a plan for that and I didn't.
I didn't at all. You just have a bunch of cool
guys and that's cool. Wasn't wasn't there some was it
this year that there was some clown controversy someone wasn't
allowed to put in like their Necromunda clowns or some
bullshit? Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I, I got disqualified from Golden Demon last year, and
I can show you. I can show you the boy that I
got disqualified. He's not technically an Imperial
Knight. He's some Horus Heresy guy.
I don't remember his technical name.
Look at him. He's such a friend.
Why would you disqualify this boy?
He's beautiful. He did nothing.
Wrong. What?
What did they say was disqualifying about it?
They did not. They simply didn't.
They did not give me a reason. They were like, unfortunately we
cannot, we cannot have him. So they pulled him from the
case. But that's OK.
He tried his best and that's really all he could do.
I named him Short Stack, like a short stack of pancakes, and
he's beautiful. I love him.
That's awful that they couldn't even like write something down
because if they had like written something on A tag I would just
make sure I kept that tag forever because I think getting
a little DQ tag would be just as good as a fucking pin from
Golden Demon in my opinion. Well, it was, it's really
perplexing because they've allowed my work every other year
besides that year. So I was like, I don't know what
to change about what it is like what?
Was the differentiating factor in this one as opposed to the
other. Ones because a lot of people
have told me that they look for by miniatures in the case they
want to see them. Every year.
So it's like I didn't enter anything this year because I was
too busy working on snack. But if I knew what aspect it was
that that made them go, no, we actually can't with this one,
then I could just not do that on a future project and make sure
it stays in the case. But.
Which is why they should tell you because you don't want to
waste your not waste your time because short SEC is very cool.
But you don't want to spend your time with the goal in mind of
being putting in a golden demon and then getting there and then
being like, sorry, no, but we're not going to tell you why.
Good luck in the future. Like that's some bullshit right
there. Yeah, everybody was way angrier
about it than I was last year, but I was so exhausted from
running Snack 28 demos that I could barely care about it.
They were like. We looked for your miniature in
the case and we didn't see it and I'm like.
I entered it in there and then eventually I got the chance to
go by and I was like, oh, I guess it's not there.
And then I asked the guy and he was like, yeah, they they said
no. And I was like, OK, you know how
it is towards the end of Adepticon, you're just so tired.
Like you're so happy to be there and see your friends and stuff,
but you are your, your brain is not right.
It's exhausted. And did you feel like you had
that less this year because your demo was more kind of
structured? Because I think the previous
year you said you were just kind of running around doing the demo
everywhere, all day, the entire time, right?
Yeah, last year I did demos for basically a full day and then
people kept wanting them so I did them the day after as well.
This year I'm I'm proud to say I ran 0 demos of Snack 20. 8
Because I was like, let me just see where my brain is AT and if
I feel like I could run a demo and have it go well and.
I was just having too much fun. I was doing very well selling my
Snack 28 stuff anyway and I had a painting class to teach and
that went super well so I was I was happy enough with that.
I would love to find a way to demo Snack 28 that doesn't kill
my brain. Because I know people want to
try it out and play it and see the board, but I need to figure
out what that balance is. And that might just be drafting
friends to help me run demos. I think that's probably what
what it is going to end up being that that that might just be
like the con environment and running demos is not something
that that I can handle well. So that might be looking
forward, like going forward, the way to the way to do Snack 28
demos, which sucks. You want to play with the
creator, but if my brain isn't there, there's no point.
Yeah, but I mean, even if you just structure a little better
where you're like, I'm only going to do like an hour of
demos a day, get two or three games in at most and and sorry,
the board is in the room. I'm not in the room.
We're not doing it. Kind of thing, yeah.
So. Because I was randomly running
mine too. And it's not like it ran it a
ton. I probably ran it maybe maybe
like 10 or 15 times. And there were also times where
people were like, oh, like your box is cool, let's play it.
I'm like, give me, let me sit down for like 45 minutes and
I'll come grab you because my game doesn't take nearly long.
It takes like 20-30 minutes, but even then, like I can't imagine
running it for an entire day. Like my brain would definitely
be fucking toasted. My throat would be gone.
Like a saying once again, no like 6 inches and then you shoot
the guy. But but yeah, I think the
structure could help a ton. But also like the game is super
fun and I'm sure your friends would be happy to to run it for
you so. Yeah.
The goal for next year is to hopefully have snack 28 in a
booth at some capacity. Whether that is.
Like it just the Zen itself being sold in a booth, whether
it is sharing a booth with somebody else.
You're trying to get Snack 28. It's its own booth, but that is.
That's the next. Step that I'm hoping to take
with snack 28 at adapter con and it would be really sick to have
my own booth, but I don't know if the adapter con people will
be like yes or no. So we got to got to wait and
see. I think it would be good because
orc or I feel like ORC, the brand also has something that is
a little bit like, you know, a a a 90° from the normal stuff.
And theirs is also kind of, I don't want to call it cutesy,
but like the guys are fucking adorable.
Like they're they're little dude.
It's called. Battle friends or monster
friends Battle for New Florida. It's called monster Friends.
They're friends. They're cute.
Yeah, they're adorable. Tyler.
Tyler's great. My first.
Priority. The minis are incredible, but my
first priority of stuff I wanted to buy at Adepticon, I was like
everybody. Back the fuck off that pom pom
purin. I'm just here to make friends.
Shirt is mine I. Was like, that's my favorite
Sanrio guy and they put him on a on a shirt that people think is
cool. I got to get that.
Yeah, I my bags got full immediately at Adepticon, so I
didn't snag the minis there, but I knew they're going to brain
dead fest. So I was able to snag everything
but like the biggest like troll dude.
So I'm gonna have to wait for the website for that.
But I did get the little Penguin guy and and all the stuff.
I'm going to make a cauldron war band and some other stuff with
those with those guys. And then they said the alpha of
the game is coming out. So that'll be super fun to play
with. But, but Speaking of Snack 28 in
the future, you said that Snack 20 is going to be released and
available. So how, how, how is that?
What? What?
How? Literally just me trying to
follow through on my New Year's resolution was to e-mail a
couple people in publishing. And by a few people in
publishing, I mean like people. That were Instagram mutuals that
were very much like we published small games and stuff like that
and just see if they were interested.
And I got 2 no's, which is fine, genuinely fine.
People are like, this is a really great thing.
It's just like we're not taking on new games right now or this
isn't quite the right fit for for where we're at, but somebody
is going to is going to want this.
And then the third, third person that I reached out to was the
flatulent and the fool Shane. And mostly I just did that
because his little grub logo looked friendly and I was like
the, well, the. Caterpillar is very happy to be
printing things, so maybe the person behind it will also be
nice and happy to print things and.
Yeah, we just got to talking. Shane was like, yeah, I like
your game. I'm mostly like, I haven't even
really read the rules. I just like the art and I'm
really interested in art forward game.
So yeah, this is this is perfect for us, so.
I've wanted to be a published author ever since I was tiny and
realized that they're the people who wrote books were like real
people. And you could do that as as a
job. So I mean, a self-publishing on
it is one thing, but honestly, I'm very emotional about the
fact that my, my. Book is going to be a thing that
you can like either buy. Online or request through your
through your local game store and, and stuff like that and
it's going to exist and people can get it and play it and have
a fun time with it. And that's incredibly exciting
for me. I can't wait.
I've, I've been super excited about this.
I've worked really, really hard to try and make sure that it's
the best possible version that it could be.
And I hope people like it when they when they can get it.
Well, I like mine and I was able to get it.
And play it and we're. Going to talk about it.
So that's at least you've got one, you've got at least one
right now and then I'm sure many more will follow.
I mean, you know everyone that I mean, you sold out of the game.
How many? How many copies did you have at
adoption? I had 50 copies, which was just
what I could afford to get. Printed and I was like, I don't
think I'll be able to. Sell all of them.
I kept one for myself. I gave 1 to a friend and I
traded 1, so I sold. 47 copies for money at the asking price
that my publisher told me to ask for, which I thought I was
worried was too high. It's $25.
And I was like, I don't know if. And and Shane was like, no, this
is this is what? People charge for obscene games
and yours has a lot of cool art and color and stuff in it.
It's fine. So yeah, and I, I, I sold out of
them by before the end of swap night on on Friday, which.
Was crazy there were. I did not bring enough copies
for as many people as one of them, but it was it was what I
could afford. I sold out of all of the bat.
On a worm miniature that was that was the big popular guy.
It's it's always funny to me that.
Like all sorts. Who is my favorite of the
characters that I've designed has never been the most popular
one. People like Crinkle and the
honey Bear Berserker much more in the first release, and people
like Bat on a Worm much more in the second release.
Yeah. Yeah, I would say.
Whose favorite? Whose favorite Disney character
is actually Mickey Mouse, though, if you think about it
like nobody's. You're right, just maybe because
he's so ever present, like he he's not real.
I don't know. I don't even I don't what I
think of Mickey. I just think all of Disney he's
just an extension of as opposed to its own individual thing.
So I guess it makes sense. But I will say, like I think the
original character for me was definitely all sorts, was the
best, my favorite character. But now obviously Licorice is my
because I'm just an edge Lord piece of shit.
Of course, like the bat is going to be the one that I like.
And I will say I think I might have got the first copy when you
were selling them and you did sign it and you did draw a
little picture of Licorice here for me.
So it's all a little sketch in there.
So yeah. Yeah, I was asking people like
what their favorite Snack 28 characters were if they had one
so I could I could draw because I, I, I feel like that's just a
nice thing to do when you sign a book.
I stole that from. Sean Sutter from Relic Blade,
who always draws these incredible pictures in the in
the covers when you buy a copy at at like.
A con or something so. They look great.
That's awesome and be an artist. That's going to be cool.
Someone asked me to sign one of the books that I was just like
giving away and I was like, I don't know what I would fucking
say and I have no signature so I'll scribble the yeehaw in
here, but I'm not doing this again.
No, for all future things. We are not My color balance went
to shit. This is white, but but yeah, so
that's so So the future Snack 28 is, I'm sorry, where will people
be able to find this book then that you're putting out?
Yeah, so if they want it digital, it's still going to be
on my itch. You can still get it for pay
What you. Want I'm very dedicated to
making snack 28 as free as possible as long as possible
because the world sucks and. Frankly, people keep paying for
it anyway. Like I have made more money than
I expected to off Snack 28, a game that is completely free.
If you want it to be free on itch.
So that's insanely wild to me. Thank you to anyone who's ever
bought a copy. The money from Snack has either
gone back into making snack miniatures paying.
Cat. Vet bills or like getting home
improvements done that I desperately needed.
Like this is it. It's literally supporting me
getting stuff done for my my adorable 3 cats that I love and
our terrors. But like, that's so cool that
people are just like, yeah, this is free, but this artist
deserves money for it. So here.
There's like 5 bucks, 10 bucks, whatever, but if they want the
physical printed edition that is going to be available from the
flatulent and the. Fool.
And they are also. And I think it's like the
flatulent and the fool. Dot com I'll be able to link it
on my itch and I'll I'll have it on my socials.
If you follow Sugar Candy Miniatures on on Instagram,
it'll be up. There, but that'll be there.
And they have a distributor, so if your local game store is
cool, you can try requesting it through there.
They may be able to order it, they may not.
I don't have full knowledge of how that works, but.
Hopefully it'll be in a couple cool local game stores soon as
well. Yeah.
So whenever do you know if the website's up now or is he still
in the process of getting that up and running?
I think he's still in the process, but I'm not sure I I
should really check in. All I know is May 9th is is the
date that it's going to go live. I don't know that the the
website has officially launched or anything yet, but that is
that is going to be where you can get it.
Cool. So if you're, if you're watching
as soon as that link is available, I will try to
remember to put it in the description below.
And if you're watching this and it's not below, leave a comment
or remind me to put that description in the link below
because I will not remember this by May 9th, but I'll do my
darndest. But on top of that future
website where we're going to link everything to where can
people find all of your things? I know you said Instagram and
things like that, but what are what are your, where are you?
Where are you on the Internet? Yeah, I'm mostly on Instagram.
Sugar Candy Miniatures is the the username.
If you see a little logo of a tiny little alien eating
popcorn, that's me. And then all of my stuff is itch
dot IO. If you search Snack 28, Snak 28,
it'll come up. That's me that all I've got up
there is snack 28 and then because my cat got sick, I
started selling the bat on the worm model early.
So a lot of people bought that to help fund his bet vet bills.
But all of the miniatures for the the the new release will be
up there. On May 9th along with the
updated edition. So that's all.
That's all that'll be online. Very cool fiber.
I just want to thank you so much for coming on the show.
It was awesome meeting you at Adepticon.
And hopefully in the future, maybe new releases, campaign
drops, whatever, and maybe, maybe something we might be
working on a little bit. Yeah.
Something between the two of us. What could it possibly be?
Is Snack 28 gonna gonna have a little cowboy?
Are we gonna have Cowboys and Snack 28?
We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll see. We'll see for the people out
there, but there's a good chance that maybe Fiverr will be back
and, and we'll we'll show a little something.
And if you're watching this also sometime next week, watch the
review because that'll be fun. And if it's two weeks from now,
watch a previous episode with that, we'll have a snack 28
review on it. But thank you so much for coming
on. Let's not make this last time
you were here, and I just really appreciate getting a chance to
talk with you. Yeah, I'd love to come back.
Thank you for having me of. Course.
So that's gonna be us for today. We will see all of you later.
Bye. Bye.