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Hello and welcome to the Weekly 
Scroll Podcast. 

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My name is Ryan. 
And I became a vampire that suck

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blood and Make Love forever. 
And today, we have a very 

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special guest with us once 
again. 

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This is Zach from Soul Mobile 
Publishing. 

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How you doing today, Zach? 
How you doing? 

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Both? 
Yeah, having a really good one. 

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Good. 
Welcome back for Time Number, 

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your third run on the weekly 
scroll. 

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Yeah, thank you very much for 
having me here to talk about sad

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gay vampires. 
Yeah, yeah, we're definitely 

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going to talk about sad gay 
vampires. 

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We, we, we'll touch on some 
other stuff before, too. 

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Because for, for, for those who 
might not know you or Salt 

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Muppet Publishing, like who, 
who, who the heck are you? 

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What? 
What might other people know you

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for? 
Oh yeah, So Salt Muppet is Auk 

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based in the RPG company. 
My name is ZAP, I go by Jelly 

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Muppet on most of social medias 
and we make role-playing games. 

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We have made stuff like Orbital 
Blues, which is about sad space 

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Cowboys. 
We've made Best of Buried, which

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was on the show pretty recently,
which is our like professional 

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dungeoneering horror game. 
We did Inevitable last year, and

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now we're here for like our four
big title coming out of Soul 

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Muppet, which is Painted Town 
Red, which is a game about being

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dead inside. 
I've been like making RPGs now 

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for like six years. 
Yeah, I found this out recently.

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Best left buried is 6 years and 
one week old, which is kind of 

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mad. 
I feel like there's going to be 

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a point where, you know, in a 
couple years it will be. 

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I mean, it's already at Junior 
School, I guess. 

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I don't know what preschool 
you'd probably call it in the. 

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I don't, I don't know what your 
US version of it is, but yeah, 

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my Anglophone weighs in the 
best. 5th grade is in year two 

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or three now, I think. 
So if we're like first grade 

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maybe, I don't know. 
That's that's crazy because 

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because Bessa Barrett was pre 
COVID. 

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It's so interesting that like 
there's a massive indie scene 

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prior to COVID, but like 2020 on
like how much has actually come 

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out after that? 
But Bessa Barrett was prior to 

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COVID. 
Yeah, it's, yeah, we did the 

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like the relaunch remaster in 
2020, which is how well that how

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long ago that was. 
So I've been making RPGs for a 

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while now. 
Not as long as some people, but 

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for someone my age I think I've 
been making RPGs for quite long.

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Yeah, I just, I, I don't know 
how I forgot. 

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Inevitable considering we talked
about it right before the show 

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started, but I don't remember if
if we did have a chat about 

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Inevitable, I'll have to write 
that list down. 

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But I did write a list of all 
the stuff for Soul Muppet so you

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guys can all catch up Back on 
episode 15, Episode 15, I think 

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this is episode like 175. 
We did an Orbital Blues review. 

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We did Best left Barrett on #26 
So we've been a fan to you guys 

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pretty much like, I mean, 
obviously since before we 

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started the show. 
We had you all on episode 25. 

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We did a review of Gangs of 
Titan City on episode 86. 

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We had you on on episode 112 to 
talk about Orbital Blues 

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Afterburn. 
We did an Orbital Blues side 

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quest, which is a side quest. 
Episode 4. 

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We did a Best at Barry side 
quest, which is number 9. 

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And I think we did have an 
inevitable episode. 

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So I think we are like 9 
episodes in talking about you 

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guys. 
So if anyone that watches the 

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show gives a shit about our 
opinion, we're fans and you 

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should you should buy everything
from some Muppet, especially I 

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love Best at Barry, but you 
know, obviously everything is 

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great. 
Orbital Blues, I think we've 

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covered more than anything, but 
a lot of fantastic stuff from 

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you guys. 
But today we're talking about, 

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as you said, sad gay vampires. 
So why? 

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Why are we talking about sad gay
vampires today? 

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Well, I wrote a game called 
paint the Tan red. 

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It's on back a kit right now. 
It features as my main 

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collaborator and art director on
it, Johann nor of Mork Borg, 

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Cyborg and into the odd fame. 
So I wanted to make a game that 

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used some of the same mechanics 
and was exploring some of the 

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same spaces we did in Orbiter 
Blues to kind of write my take 

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on the vampire game. 
Something that was like, 

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emotional and sad and at times, 
like, weird and horny and like 

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going through and sort of 
telling the stories of these 

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vampires. 
And yeah, the game's live now on

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back kits you can pledge. 
There's a load of silly, 

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fantastic bits you can do. 
The game is set like on the 

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history throughout the history 
of Earth as your vampires, like,

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stretch into immortality. 
There's a whole load of 

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adventures that are available as
part of it. 

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And then like dice and silly 
books and things as well as like

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1 incredibly gorgeous book that 
would be right at the centre of 

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it. 
And also if that any of this 

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sounds interesting. 
And as we are talking, I would 

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recommend checking out our quick
start, which is I have a 

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physical copy, but it is 
available for free digitally on 

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the SOM website. 
And you owe it to yourself to go

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and check that out if you are 
listening to this at home. 

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It's a really cool book. 
I mean, I'm allowed to say it's 

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a cool book, right? 
I like it quite a lot. 

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But yeah, that's what that is. 
Yeah, it looks really good. 

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I am. 
I'm very in in my vampire year 

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right now, I think. 
So I'm, I'm very stoked about 

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this. 
Also, I love the Man Eater dice 

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kit. 
They're some of the prettiest 

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dice that I have ever seen. 
Yeah, so we're working with a 

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really fantastic guy called 
Miles Garstang from a company 

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called Rune Fable, which is 
again like Auk based dice 

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manufacturer, former chemist, 
and has made these dice for us 

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that are like sharp Shard, like 
resin crystals with blood drops 

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running through the resin and 
also a liquid blood core. 

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Like when you shake and roll the
dice, the blood is kicked up as 

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you roll. 
So not only do the pictures look

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gorgeous, but also when they 
roll in motion, they look even 

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better. 
So I'd love to show you on my 

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camera, but they are in another 
room right now and my camera 

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quality is not studio quality, 
I'm afraid. 

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But yeah, there's some really 
gorgeous dices apart of that. 

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But you know, we wanted to like,
use the dice when you work with 

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someone like Miles who has like 
a real understanding and mastery

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of the craft of dice making and 
thus chemistry, and has made all

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of these other dice for lots of 
other cool companies. 

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We were literally able to mimic 
the emotional cycles of the 

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characters in the game with 
dice, which is pretty fantastic 

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because the game is about like 
the experiences of moving 

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between many emotional states 
because we're using undef here 

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and being a vampire and having 
survived death as a metaphor for

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being a survivor of trauma. 
And thus the characters are 

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dealing with stuff like anxiety 
and depression and, you know, 

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problems with their mental 
health and also their clearness 

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fundamentally, right? 
So these characters are moving 

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through all these in different 
emotional states constantly. 

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In Orbital Blues, we joke about 
the game having sad forex P. 

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The Blues mechanic that exists 
allows you to level up by 

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expressing the emotional core of
your troubles and telling us 

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more about your sad cowboy back 
story. 

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Whereas in Paint the Town Red, 
you're in fact doing, you know, 

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sad for health, right? 
Your health score, your pulse is

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a mimicry and reflection of your
emotional state in a given 

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moment. 
So are you like, is your skin 

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flush? 
Is your heart beating? 

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Do you look and act like a human
and blend in of normal society 

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because you're having a a good 
enough time? 

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Or are you this monstrous 
creature, pale, pallid, curled 

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up in a ball that is like 
refusing to interact with the 

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world. 
And then also there's this other

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spectrum that you interact with,
which is measuring your chaos, 

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which is like how active you are
feeling in a given moment and 

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how your emotional state is 
affecting the people around you,

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right? 
And the city around you that 

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you're in and sort of that how 
people around you are going to 

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react to you. 
And by measuring those two 

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numbers together, you're 
reflecting all these different 

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emotional states. 
And literally the idea that, 

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like when you roll this dice, it
moves from a state of low pulse,

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low chaos to high pulse, high 
chaos is like something that is 

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really fundamentally cool from a
pleasure level. 

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So yeah, the dice, like 
everything I do, is a metaphor 

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for something. 
That's beautiful. 

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I love that. 
I mean you guys have AI think at

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least twice have gone kind of 
nutty with the dice because then

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inevitable had the the bullet 
dice. 

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Bullet dice. 
Yeah. 

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That was, that was fun. 
I, you know, I went to, again, 

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one of the best manufact dice 
manufacturers in the world, 

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level up dice and said, give me 
a dice with which I could kill a

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dragon. 
And they did. 

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So, you know, So I mean, that 
time it was, you know, CNC 

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cutting pieces of brass into the
shape of a hexagonal bullet. 

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And this time it was filling 
resin dice with liquid capsules 

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full of blood. 
And that's the things I do for 

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people to be able to do cool 
things on the Crab Money 

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Project. 
Because like, as with most, you 

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know, indie creations that exist
like mine, this thing happened 

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because I got excited about an 
idea and decided to do it. 

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And the fact that you can buy it
is only really an accidental 

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like side effect of my personal 
infuse. 

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He hasn't. 
So, you know, it just means that

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some cool thing is made so that 
I can keep one or two of the two

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of them at the end is like the 
general soul market strategy. 

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I think we all appreciate that 
you do that actually, because we

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also want those things so. 
Absolutely. 

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I mean, if I was ever the 
publishing stuff or making 

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games, that's literally what I 
would do. 

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I'd be like, I'm doing this 
literally just for me. 

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You guys might get it too. 
But as long as I can make at 

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least one, I'll be happy with it
on my shelf. 

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So I, I think as long as you 
being, at least in our opinion, 

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a very cool creative person 
enjoys what you're making, then 

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we will continue to enjoy 
receiving that. 

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So if you're happy at the end of
the day, you know, we've been 

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happy every time. 
So I continue to look forward to

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that. 
So your core system, as you were

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just saying, with, with paint 
the town red is the same you 

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used with Vesa Ferry. 
It's the same. 

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You use the orbital Blues. 
That's kind of like the house 

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system as far as Soul Muppet 
goes, right? 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
Yeah. 

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Keeping it nice and simple, 
rolling 2 dice trying to hit a 

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target #3 stats, the amount of 
numbers that I think a person 

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can generally remember off the 
top of the head of a character 

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sheet. 
For this, we've got about 5, I 

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think 6 if you count the sort of
baked in experience mechanic. 

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But there's really like not a 
lot happening in this game 

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because it's like, ultimately, 
while I want games to have rules

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and I think that they are 
helpful to govern what happens 

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at the table, I don't want to 
have you, you know, we we joked 

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with Bessler buried. 
You can't be scared if you're 

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doing maths right. 
That is like, there's certainly 

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some types of maths that can be 
scary, but I don't want that to 

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be the the experience as the 
game is intended, which is why, 

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like I just keep everything 
really simple so that the rules 

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can get out the way of the game 
happening. 

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And you know, we've gone in a 
different direction each time 

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with what we've choose chosen to
add to this game to kind of work

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out what we think the game needs
on top of the core engine with 

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Best Left buried. 
That was a really comprehensive 

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set of character and monster 
abilities that could be used to 

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00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,120
basically like kick bash from 
whatever sources together 

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00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,240
whatever fantasy monster you 
needed, right? 

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00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,000
Because that's what we thought 
the game needed in that genre to

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make sense. 
In Orbital Blues, there's lots 

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00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,360
of stuff about spaceships and 
spaceship combat and crew 

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00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,680
equipment and kind of that's the
place we think the game needed 

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the additional complexity. 
Whereas for Paint the Town Red, 

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00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,200
the direction that we've gone in
is we've been focusing on like 

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tools and GM's advice. 
Because the game I wanted to 

224
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,880
tell is not a game about going 
into a dungeon and getting some 

225
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:43,880
treasure or trying to save the 
Princess or engaging with the 

226
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,720
stories of either a fantasy 
novel or a western sci-fi thing,

227
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,880
respectively, in the way that 
those two, those two games were.

228
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,800
Because this is a game about 
like, it's much more slice of 

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life. 
It's much more like day-to-day 

230
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emotional. 
The main drive of the characters

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00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,000
isn't to get money or to level 
up or do a job. 

232
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,880
It's not about getting paid. 
It's about like finding 

233
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something else. 
You're kind of climbing this 

234
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:17,960
Maslowian pyramid of, you know, 
satisfaction and looking for 

235
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,400
emotional fulfilment. 
And at the start of the game, 

236
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,400
that is to do with drinking 
people alive and indulging in 

237
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your passions and going out and 
painting the town red. 

238
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,240
And then by the end of it, that 
cycle is either going to cause 

239
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,840
all these massive consequences 
to come back and clap you and 

240
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,520
push you into OverDrive, or 
you're going to start forging 

241
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,680
bonds, making connections with 
the community and, like, pushing

242
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,320
on to that next dimension of 
play. 

243
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:51,120
So a lot of the tools were less 
about like hero saves the 

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00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,280
Princess or tries to kill the 
dragon and more about adding you

245
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,520
these emotional tools to like 
sometimes make this feel more 

246
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,080
like an episode of Always 
Stunning in Philadelphia or 

247
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:09,480
something like that, rather than
like these these sort of high 

248
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,240
fantastical stories involving 
the hero's journey, you know? 

249
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,560
So we've given you lots of 
pacing tools to like handle what

250
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:21,480
characters do between sessions, 
like these sort of like intro 

251
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,240
pastiche pieces that kind of 
connect to the sessions 

252
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,680
together. 
All of the sort of mechanics of 

253
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,200
all these different people in 
the cities. 

254
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,240
Because like, the game is about 
being part of an undead 

255
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,600
community, right? 
It's about creating this 

256
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,440
nightlife, pun intended, of all 
of these other emotionally 

257
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,520
strained undead people right? 
Who are interacting you in their

258
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,560
own way and all have their own 
wants and desires. 

259
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,680
And are also like weird and 
interesting vampires from 

260
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,120
throughout history with their 
own passions looking for their 

261
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,520
own needs. 
And also then interacting with 

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00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:04,000
this other force, which are the 
more old and uncaring and mortal

263
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,400
hegemonic vampires that have 
spent their time like building 

264
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,560
society in an image that works 
for them rather than like 

265
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,240
drinking blood and trying to 
fall in love, you know, so it 

266
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,360
really, while it's got like the 
same engine, we keep it simple. 

267
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,640
You'll like recognize the 
resolution mechanic if you've 

268
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,080
played either of those two 
popular song Muppet games or 

269
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,480
something like Maze Rats, for 
example, which uses a similar 

270
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,520
engine. 
You'll definitely like, if you 

271
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,280
sit down and read the rest of 
the game, you'll see there's a 

272
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,880
bunch of other stuff that's 
trying to push it in this 

273
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,720
different direction. 
So yeah. 

274
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,080
One thing I really like is and 
and and to that point is even 

275
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,360
like the stat names in this, 
which which you did obviously 

276
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,000
wonderful and orbit Blues. 
We love those. 

277
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,720
But the three stats in in 
Pentathon Red Savagery, Allure 

278
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:01,280
and Duplicity hitting hard on 
the vibes, even down in the stat

279
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,680
names. 
What? 

280
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,920
And and as you read the rest of 
the book too, I mean, one thing 

281
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,720
that I was drawn to. 
So I'm just on the quick start 

282
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,720
page in the fighting section, 
fighting options like eat some 

283
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,040
fucker alive and get the shit 
beat out of you. 

284
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,200
Yeah. 
So the, the writing in this is, 

285
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:25,000
you know, top mod. 
What what kind of, I guess 

286
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,680
awesome. 
And and just to talk to that I 

287
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:32,840
guess a little bit. 
Yeah, it was really important to

288
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:38,480
me that like each of the games 
that we wrote have a very, like,

289
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,200
different tone to them and like 
adopting and sitting in that 

290
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:46,360
tone is really important. 
Best left Berry feels very it, 

291
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:47,960
you know, it feels a bit like 
Darkest Dungeon. 

292
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,800
It's very evocative. 
It's very like interested in 

293
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,920
these long monologues that are 
told by like a weary old man 

294
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,080
around a campfire about all the 
dungeoneering he used to do 

295
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,960
right. 
The game has a voice. 

296
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,960
It speaks to you in the flavour 
section in something like 

297
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,560
orbital Blues. 
Sam worked really well and like 

298
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:11,800
giving all of the all of the the
game, this attitude of this 

299
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,880
cowboy who had this contempt for
capitalism and like the way this

300
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,080
all sits around and the language
fit there is inevitable. 

301
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:22,520
You're kind of talking as if it 
is a story. 

302
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,520
It feels like something that 
comes out of a Western or 

303
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,000
Arthurian legend or something 
like that. 

304
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:33,560
Whereas in this game the tone is
much more, is much less baroque 

305
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:38,200
and at times much more casual. 
There's swearing in this book, 

306
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,040
you know, quite a lot. 
You get the shit, but have you 

307
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:45,600
eat some fucker alive, you know?
And establishing like a language

308
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,400
that I can use to talk about 
each game is like a really 

309
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,680
important step. 
And it occurs organically. 

310
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,600
Like when you start writing the 
game, the tone isn't always 

311
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,240
clear to you. 
And often I like go back and go,

312
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,240
oh, this isn't like funny or sad
or wit enough. 

313
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:02,880
It's like an inconsistent voice 
to it. 

314
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,800
And I think this is like the 
game that is closest to how I 

315
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,480
talk in real life because I am 
not a cowboy. 

316
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:19,840
I am a mild mannered British 
person who may be also very old,

317
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:25,280
very sad and reasonably gay. 
And the voice there is good. 

318
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,600
Like it kind of all starts from 
the earliest bits, like and my 

319
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,400
favorite, but I don't know if 
you caught this of the stats we 

320
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,880
have savagery, allure and 
duplicity. 

321
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:40,440
Savagery covers your like acts 
of physical violence and that 

322
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:45,520
leads very different to like 
Braun or muscle, right, because 

323
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,760
it's not about that. 
It's about being savage, right? 

324
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,640
It speaks in a really different 
language instead of your wit or 

325
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,120
your savvy. 
We're in the realm of duplicity 

326
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,880
now, right? 
Which speaks very differently 

327
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,320
there. 
And allure is its own. 

328
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,160
Like this is about like feats of
charm and being sort of like 

329
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,760
suggestive and sexy at times. 
But the game, another fun thing 

330
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,760
is the game used to have 
ferocity instead of savagery, 

331
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,640
and then we changed ferocity to 
savagery. 

332
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,640
Purely because of the reason 
that the stats now spell SAD. 

333
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,760
I think savagery hits better 
though as well, you know it. 

334
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,320
Does. 
Yeah, no, that was very good. 

335
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,240
And it was my friend, my friend 
Ben Mccafferson, that who's one 

336
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,960
of a sort of a poet and median 
in the Nottingham scene, it was 

337
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,640
like, you need to replace that 
to do this. 

338
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,240
And that was like the best piece
of play testing feedback I've 

339
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,520
ever had. 
Like you need to do this so the 

340
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,160
poem is better is like the kind 
of play testing feedback you 

341
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,200
don't normally get. 
But yeah, for us, ferocity and 

342
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,640
savagery both would have worked.
But I love savagery and how that

343
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,160
game feels. 
And yeah, the game spends a lot 

344
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,200
of time talking to you in these 
periods of like demarked, 

345
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,200
italicized flavour tales about 
the city or the culture or the 

346
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,480
vampires or what undeath is and 
what you're doing, sort of. 

347
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,640
And it injects a lot of flavour 
through that way because we kind

348
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:19,080
of, we didn't have access to a 
lot of the diegetic art that 

349
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,800
Orbital Blues uses, right? 
A lot of the art in Orbital 

350
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,720
Blues is like a poster or 
something from the universe, 

351
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,360
right, that we called in. 
And Josh Clark, our amazing 

352
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:35,680
illustrator, and Sam Celini, our
fantastic writer, kind of worked

353
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,720
together to. 
And also known archivist, our 

354
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,600
graphic designer and later 
Daishu guys who's done all the 

355
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,760
stuff for Afterburn work to like
bring all of these things to 

356
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,240
artifacts that exist on the 
page. 

357
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,120
Whereas when we were working 
with Johan, it was quite clear 

358
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:53,800
from him that he didn't want, he
wanted the book to look and feel

359
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,280
a different way, right? 
And was uninterested in diegetic

360
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,640
art as a concept because that's 
something that appears very 

361
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,600
heavily in lots of other types 
of vampiric media, right? 

362
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:12,920
If you look at a Vampire the 
Masquerade piece right, there is

363
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:19,200
a lot of corn up little in world
notes and you know, letters or 

364
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,000
Diaries that are written from 
the perspective of a character. 

365
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:27,720
And if you look at sort of more 
modern RPGs, €1000 vampire like 

366
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,240
his firmly rooted in that kind 
of collage style. 

367
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,520
So when we took our swing at 
this genre, understanding and 

368
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,720
respecting those things that 
came before us and having looked

369
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,720
at them and decided what we 
liked about them, what we didn't

370
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,800
wanting to. 
Oh yeah. 

371
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,040
And the other one in the vampire
genre is eat the right as well. 

372
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,400
Like a load of that is in world,
right? 

373
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,000
You're handed an intelligent 
document. 

374
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,680
And that obviously was an 
influence for this game and how 

375
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:57,080
it looks in place. 
And yeah, the arts in Paint the 

376
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,800
town red when you see it is like
not in world. 

377
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,480
It's more frequently like, Kit 
bashed and cannibalized and 

378
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,720
feasted upon versions of art 
from the public domain that we 

379
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:16,440
have like, ripped up and added 
blood splatters to, or, you 

380
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,160
know, murky shadows or skeletons
or whatever. 

381
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:22,920
And Johan's like, done a bunch 
of that art you'll be able to 

382
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,840
see on the page. 
But also, we've worked with a 

383
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:31,680
really wide selection of utterly
fantastic artists to create bits

384
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,400
of art that are, you know, some 
of them are about vampires. 

385
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,760
Also, some of them are like 
really firmly nested in the 

386
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:42,560
periods of time that we set the 
adventures in, you know, because

387
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:48,280
these adventures are about place
and culture and like the cities 

388
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,200
that we all live in, right, 
being a place where these 

389
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,720
adventures, these characters 
happen, right? 

390
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,320
And that's where all of these 
adventures start with like one 

391
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,600
of the coolest cities that I 
could, we could think of when we

392
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,160
were coming up with the 
adventure and work out what are 

393
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,240
the vampires up to this time? 
Because they're everywhere. 

394
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:13,840
They're all throughout history 
and they never die, so there was

395
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,080
some really exciting choices 
about the adventures there. 

396
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,240
Yeah, the so, so sad, the 
savagery. 

397
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,320
It's funny me when you started 
that and you said ferocity, I 

398
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:24,920
was like, oh, savage just sounds
better. 

399
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,240
I also feel like colloquially 
people say savage a bunch now 

400
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,560
for like things that fit. 
I was not expecting you to say 

401
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,080
sad. 
And I can't tell you how much 

402
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,640
it's going to tickle me 
literally for the rest of my 

403
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,480
life that the stats in this 
spell sad and it's it's a sad 

404
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,920
game. 
So that that I'm going to love 

405
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,800
that for forever. 
As far as I've been flipping 

406
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,640
through the the quick start on 
screen and as far as like the 

407
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,040
the layout, the art and stuff 
like that, is this mostly what 

408
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,760
the book is going to look like? 
Is there a big difference or is 

409
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,880
this mostly like just a 
truncated version for the quick 

410
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,520
start? 
It's so we've not, we are going 

411
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,360
to redo it because because of 
various reasons, a bunch of the 

412
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,160
art that is currently just 
public domain art is vampire 

413
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,160
themed, is going to be messed up
by Johann and some other artists

414
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,480
as we work through. 
And there's going to be more art

415
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,400
that we're adding to it. 
There's a ludicrous quantity. 

416
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,280
I've bought far too much for the
final game and we're going to be

417
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,160
resizing it from instead of 
being the A5 quick start, it's 

418
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,120
going to go to a that you could 
print on a compute thing at 

419
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:24,720
home. 
It's going to go to the standard

420
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,080
6 by 9 inch saw muppet size that
is more familiar to some 

421
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,440
Americans as U.S. trade. 
But then there's also going to 

422
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,680
be huge swaths of other stuff 
that gets added to the rest of 

423
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,520
the adventure. 
The quick start currently has is

424
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,680
like feature complete, right? 
It's a done game. 

425
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,080
I am an idiot. 
I've made a far too big quick 

426
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,320
start. 
It's 82 pages long. 

427
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,080
It has full character creation 
rules for running a whole 

428
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:55,480
campaign and an adventure that 
will do you minimum for like 3 

429
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,320
to 5 sessions, if not more, but 
you could play it for longer if 

430
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,000
you wanted. 
So like don't quick start does 

431
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,720
not mean one shot. 
This is a campaign of the game 

432
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,920
set in our starter adventure, a 
modern Babylon, which is in 

433
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,520
Victorian London, right? 
And it gives you all the 

434
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,000
characters, all the vampires and
stuff that you need. 

435
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,600
But when we're scaling up to the
full book, which is on 

436
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:20,440
Kickstarter now, that is just 
adding enormous quantities of 

437
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,680
new things. 
There's going to be 3 adventures

438
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:31,240
in it that are set in ancient 
Rome, Charlemagne's Arkham, and 

439
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:36,360
then Ghazni in the 11th century,
in modern day Afghanistan. 

440
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,640
Kind of as we move east, as we 
move through time, fleeing the 

441
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,400
ruins of ancient Rome and kind 
of the impact that had on 

442
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,520
Europe. 
There's also going to be a bunch

443
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,640
of rules for playing other types
of undead instead of just 

444
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,920
vampires because the stories 
include like the adventures 

445
00:26:53,920 --> 00:27:01,320
include ghosts, werewolves, 
ghouls, liches, zombie 

446
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,160
skeletons, and I've forgotten 
one, which I'll remember some 

447
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,320
other time. 
And so there's rules for those. 

448
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,400
And there's also going to be 
advice on making your own 

449
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,240
adventures, advice on running 
this like different style of 

450
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:18,560
more reactive game pacing tools 
for lengthening out the campaign

451
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,320
from something that is played in
one city to like measured across

452
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,560
the entirety of time. 
So these rules for like what 

453
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,480
happens in the 600 years between
your adventures, right? 

454
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,000
Working out what occurs there 
and how your characters might 

455
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,920
change. 
And then I got excited and wrote

456
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:40,600
a law chapter, which is a 7000 
World Word in World Academic 

457
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,400
article written by a fictional 
parapsychologist who is 

458
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,320
reviewing for an academic 
journal the movement of the 

459
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,240
undead throughout history and 
talking a bunch about like 

460
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,840
undead culture. 
And doing that by conducting 

461
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,080
interviews with three key 
vampires she found that are very

462
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,880
old and like, what were they 
doing this time? 

463
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,600
What were they doing this time? 
How does vampiric culture 

464
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,200
change? 
And like, what could all these 

465
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,280
adventures look like? 
And thus seeding all these other

466
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,800
adventures. 
So and there's a lot of other 

467
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,160
stuff as well to do like magic 
and there's loads of rules for 

468
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,320
being a wizard or a lich or 
whatever. 

469
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,880
That's the one I forgot lich is.
And then tables of random 

470
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,880
characters, names, locations. 
And then there's a load more 

471
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,000
stuff we're doing as well. 
There's going to be at least two

472
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,120
other adventures as well as the 
one in the quick start, three in

473
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:33,360
the call book. 
We've got one set in New York in

474
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:36,920
the 1920s, which is called It 
Never Sleeps, which like 

475
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,960
catalogs the Great Depression. 
If that sounds interesting to 

476
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,840
you, there's an actual play of 
it on my first dungeon you can 

477
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,520
listen to. 
We've partnered up with them and

478
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,760
sponsored a stream for them to 
do like a four episode season, 

479
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,200
show you what like a standard 
city could look like if it was 

480
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,840
played by amazing players and 
edited into essentially a 

481
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,440
functionally an audio drama. 
I'm in audio drama production 

482
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,840
now. 
Somehow, who knows? 

483
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:07,600
And then also another adventure 
set in 1880s Imperial Japan in 

484
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:13,880
Edo, now Tokyo. 
So like there is a lot of stuff 

485
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,400
in this book. 
So it's going to look like the 

486
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,400
quick start. 
The graphic design is going to 

487
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,000
be vaulted in the same things. 
You're still going to have these

488
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,280
pieces of art that are often 
drawn from the public domain, 

489
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,680
sometimes new. 
The blood pouring from the 

490
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,480
gutters is like a really big 
feature that's sticking around. 

491
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,720
You can kind of tell where 
you're on a chapter by how 

492
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,080
chaotic the book is. 
Once again, we make something a 

493
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,160
metaphor for what it is to be a 
vampire, and blood pours from 

494
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,880
the gutters as it gets advanced.
But also there's going to be 

495
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,480
more of it. 
The arts going to be cooler and 

496
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,400
all the other shit's going to be
added. 

497
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,000
So it's going to be 1 heck of a 
game when it gets finished. 

498
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,360
Especially when I spend time 
talking about all those things 

499
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,680
that have taken months and 
months and months of my writing 

500
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,320
time to kind of make exist in 
the way they are. 

501
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,160
Yeah, you spent a little bit of 
time on this, you know, 7000 

502
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,360
words just for a Lord chapter. 
Flipping through the quick 

503
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,160
start. 
I I. 

504
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,960
I got, I got excited, Ryan. 
I got excited like, how dare 

505
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,760
you? 
I was going to be short and then

506
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,600
I just kept going, you know? 
Have you, have you ever not 

507
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,040
added like a third extra to to 
your games just from the 

508
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:29,800
excitement of doing them? 
I mean, no, not really. 

509
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,960
Like afterburners ended up like 
50% more page count than we 

510
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,080
intended. 
I think Inevitable was pretty 

511
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,640
close to the spec I was 
imagining. 

512
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,720
But also there was still lots of
weird little bits in there that 

513
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,600
weren't planned at the start 
because, you know, but like, all

514
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,440
creative activities, when they 
go well, are an exercise in 

515
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,160
enthusiasm, right? 
And you wouldn't want to read 

516
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,640
something that the person who 
written it had not enjoyed 

517
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,600
doing. 
You know, that's, I think pretty

518
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,840
fundamental, you know? 
So, yeah, I had fun, I got 

519
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,280
excited. 
And now there's going to be 1 

520
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,240
hell of a book that everyone's 
going to get to play at the end 

521
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:15,520
with also content from some 
amazing guest and collaborative 

522
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,560
writers that we've worked with 
on the book. 

523
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,840
There's like a a huge team of 
like 20-4 people that would have

524
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,200
worked on the quick start and 
then the accompanying materials 

525
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,320
and the core book and the other 
bits you can get. 

526
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:31,840
So there's a lot of people 
working on this. 

527
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,680
Yeah, I mean, so with Inevitable
too, though. 

528
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,640
I mean, Inevitable is the game 
that if I remember correctly 

529
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,520
when we chatted before that you 
kind of had spent the most time 

530
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:41,960
in your mind about. 
It's like the game that you 

531
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,200
always wanted to make. 
So like, it kind of makes sense 

532
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,360
that you had what you wanted to 
do kind of in your head since 

533
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,600
you've been thinking about it a 
lot longer. 

534
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,600
But then also, yeah, that that 
the team list I'm I'm scrolling 

535
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,480
through on backer kit right now.
I mean, the names on here are 

536
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,440
crazy when even when you just 
get down to the riding team, you

537
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,800
know, Hippolita Elliott Davis 
and Brian Flaherty. 

538
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,280
Obviously you said you you 
partnered up with with the my 

539
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,680
first dungeon people, but the 
art team like Brandon, you, 

540
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,600
Brian Yaksha, I mean, this is 
like a fraction of of the list 

541
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:16,840
of people here. 
It's crazy. 

542
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,200
The team that you put together 
for this, yes. 

543
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,680
Very proud of them, very happy 
to work with all of them. 

544
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,920
And I hope I will be again soon 
and as we continue to finish 

545
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,880
this thing, because like, while 
some of these writers have like 

546
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,680
finished up, like all the 
adventures have been written, 

547
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,240
but there's a lot of art left to
go. 

548
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,840
So that's going to be very 
exciting to get all of that done

549
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,280
and finished. 
And yeah, it's, it's been a joy 

550
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,200
to work on, particularly because
like there are some people on 

551
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:51,240
here that I've been wanting to 
collaborate with as artists and 

552
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,440
for ages. 
Like I've been trying to get 

553
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,520
Johan to work with me for 
literally 5 projects now every 

554
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,280
time I'm. 
Are you busy for this thing? 

555
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,600
And I was like, well, this time 
this is the one I really want 

556
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,000
you to do. 
But yeah, it was really cool to 

557
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,960
write something with Brian and 
Elliot. 

558
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,160
Like I think it's very 
interesting like from a like 

559
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,760
making working with an actual 
play on like a partnership that 

560
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,800
is also something that's going 
to get turned into a book is 

561
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,040
really cool. 
Like you can listen to that 

562
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,880
adventure as it is played and 
get sort of like a grounding in 

563
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,560
what those characters like as 
you read it. 

564
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,520
I've been wanting to work on 
something big with quality again

565
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:32,680
since we did Can't Trip 
Together. 

566
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,200
That was like 3 years ago now. 
We've done a couple like little 

567
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,720
stretch goal bits. 
They did something as part of 

568
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,000
Inevitable, but it's good to get
them back to like her back to 

569
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,360
write a whole thing. 
So it's great and I'm even more 

570
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,320
excited to hit some of the 
stretch goals that we've got 

571
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,840
planned. 
The one I really want to do is 

572
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,880
called the Cold War, which is 
like Cold War vampire spies 

573
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,360
going after each other with a 
bunch of stuff about the sort of

574
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,680
imperialism and colonialism of 
the superpowers of that period, 

575
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,120
interrupting with all these 
different cities and parts of 

576
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,960
the world. 
And you know, but there's 

577
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:12,440
because the adventures are so 
like fun to write this game, 

578
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,880
like ultimately an adventure is 
a city that is like an exciting 

579
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,600
place to work in that you can 
pull bits of history and, you 

580
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,800
know, spend so long reading 
books or on Wikipedia or 

581
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,560
watching YouTube videos or have 
you want to do research and like

582
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,320
finding out something like, oh, 
that sounds like a vampire lives

583
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,920
there. 
This guy sounds like a vampire. 

584
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,159
This character I want to kick 
back and buy with this thing. 

585
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:39,480
And like, you know, most of the 
adventures is just places and 

586
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,679
characters that you kind of have
all these things they want and 

587
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:46,199
they need and these passions you
kind of smush together. 

588
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,040
And that then turns into an 
adventure. 

589
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,960
And writing 24 interesting 
characters is really easy and 

590
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,880
fun, especially because the 
characters in an adventure set 

591
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,640
in ancient Rome aren't just 
going to be Roman, right? 

592
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,320
They're actually going to be, 
you know, Greek or Egyptian or 

593
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:12,760
Babylonian or from Sumair or 
from, you know, Turkey or Gaul 

594
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,000
or, you know, any, any place 
anytime that's previous, you can

595
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,240
say, well, this person who is 
from this place and is into this

596
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,240
thing is now here. 
What are they doing now? 

597
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:25,880
Where do they fit in? 
And the energy of the contacts? 

598
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,520
How is that kind of like these 
emotionally damaged, interesting

599
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:34,040
people like you who come from 
who have this high concept, but 

600
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,240
also these like emotional needs,
right? 

601
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:43,320
And being able to do that and 
getting them to pulling those 

602
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,000
people out of the idea of what 
is exciting about history is 

603
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,960
really cool. 
It's been fun to write a game 

604
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:56,000
that is like set and grounded 
very firmly in the real world, 

605
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,600
right? 
Or a real world right? 

606
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,600
Not not the real world person. 
It's not a medieval fantasy 

607
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,960
world, it is a version of ours. 
Absolutely, yeah. 

608
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,440
On that note, the the do you 
have media touchdowns that you 

609
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,800
were were thinking of when you 
were writing a lot of this? 

610
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,400
I know obviously like from games
perspective we talked about 

611
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,240
those, you know, Vampire Ether 
Reich, you know, Vampire the 

612
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:31,960
Masquerade and things like that.
But were you reading a lot of of

613
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,080
Anne Rice when you were doing 
this? 

614
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,240
Or like, was there other things 
on? 

615
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:37,480
Your mind? 
I haven't read any Anne Rice. 

616
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,560
I've watched some bits of the TV
show. 

617
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,480
I need to finish it, but I don't
have the TV platform it's on in 

618
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,400
the UK. 
So I'm having a pirate and I'm 

619
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,480
lazy, but that's amazing. 
The stuff that's really been 

620
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:54,080
getting me going for it is like 
a concoction of all the normal 

621
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,080
stuff that tends to influence 
me, which is like really loud 

622
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,560
and obnoxious jazz and Disco 
Elysium. 

623
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:03,320
I like the two touchstones for 
anything I will make ever, but 

624
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:08,440
specifically kind of hitting the
the vampire specific 

625
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:14,160
touchstones. 
I'd say I'm not all all media 

626
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:15,720
has just drifted out of my 
skull. 

627
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,560
What We Do in the Shadows is a 
classic that like messy, 

628
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:25,720
disastrous, live in housemate 
molecule of both the film and 

629
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:27,600
the TV show. 
I've seen more of the film than 

630
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,960
I have the TV show. 
I've not finished it yet. 

631
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,920
And that's like a real 
touchstone for how like messy 

632
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,920
and disastrous these characters 
can be, but also being 

633
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,320
fundamentally very sad. 
Only Lovers Left Alive is like a

634
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,480
big reference point. 
I feel like they are the most 

635
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,640
paint the town red vampires I've
seen. 

636
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,320
Fiction Mass is really fucking 
cool. 

637
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,080
I love that show. 
There's loads of other bits and 

638
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:02,840
bobs, but there's also like lots
of bits of media that you 

639
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:08,560
wouldn't necessarily associate 
with on death that is like that 

640
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,160
feels very paint the town red, 
right? 

641
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:17,120
There's stuff like Imbruged and 
Leaving Las Vegas, both really 

642
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,120
like speak to me as paint the 
town red stories because like 

643
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,160
they are about death and regret 
and you know, alcoholism at 

644
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:30,360
times and like poetry, right? 
Some post death state we find 

645
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,120
ourselves in where something 
very bad has happened and we're 

646
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,680
not trying to deal with it 
emotionally or not deal with it 

647
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,680
in some cases. 
But yeah, there's lots and lots 

648
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,680
of touchdowns. 
I'm sure I've missed a load off,

649
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,760
but like, yeah, those are some 
of the big hitters. 

650
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,200
I'm but I don't think you could 
go wrong starting or sorting 

651
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:51,440
like Interview from with a 
Vampire. 

652
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,920
Yeah, I'm, I'm shocked you 
haven't read that because like 

653
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,440
the the like the love triangle 
between like Louis, Louis and 

654
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,920
Lestat and Claudia, like they're
very sad and like very gay and 

655
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,560
like, as soon as I heard of 
this, I was like, oh, this is, 

656
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,560
this is Louis Lestat. 
Like this is the whole thing. 

657
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,400
I'm shocked that that's not 
something you've. 

658
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,360
Read The problem is, is that I 
haven't I, I don't, I don't read

659
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,600
much anymore because it feels 
like working. 

660
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,520
I, I, I have a lot of ADHD, so 
if I'm reading something, it's 

661
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,640
for work and I need to like, I 
need to get an audio book and 

662
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,920
blaster. 
It also like one of these things

663
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,960
is that when you look at a 
series that was like written 20 

664
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,200
or 30 years ago and God knows 
how many interviews there are in

665
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,600
that city, the books in that 
series now, like I, I've always 

666
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,200
feel intimidated by big ones. 
Like in my head there's at least

667
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,480
like 6 or something. 
I think it's. 

668
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:45,240
Like 9 or 10 at this point. 
That's just 9 or 10 books. 

669
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,800
Just it's fine. 
I feel like Only Lovers Left 

670
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,720
Alive is the amazing touch point
for this. 

671
00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:52,280
I completely forgot about that 
film. 

672
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,960
I watched it years ago. 
It that's a great like sad 

673
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,000
musician vampire film and if you
have not watched it listeners, 

674
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,480
you should it's great. 
I've never even heard of this. 

675
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,000
Oh really? 
Yeah, it's Tilda Swinton and 

676
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,360
Tom, whatever his last name. 
Hiddleston. 

677
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,160
Hiddleston. 
John Hurt in it as well. 

678
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,000
Oh yeah, he is. 
I'll definitely. 

679
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,000
I mean, that's on my list now. 
I'll have to check it out. 

680
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,520
I never even never even knew 
that that existed, much less I 

681
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,520
had a chance to watch it. 
So, so enjoy. 

682
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,360
I definitely give it this. 
Yeah, it's a great vampire film.

683
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,160
Who, who's making happy vampires
because they don't understand 

684
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,080
how, how it, I mean, we get 100 
years and that's, you know, at 

685
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,480
Max and that's enough for me. 
I can't imagine doing it for a 

686
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,880
couple 100 and not being sad 
about it, you know, so, so the 

687
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,240
project's on backer kit right 
now. 

688
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:54,640
What, What can we get when when 
we go back the backer kit, if we

689
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,040
haven't already, which obviously
we have, What, what can people 

690
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,840
get from this project physically
in hand? 

691
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:05,920
So there's the core book, which 
we talked about as well as PDFs 

692
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,960
of that. 
And also the free quick start is

693
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,120
available now. 
And it's like the number one 

694
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,480
thing I suggest you do. 
Don't read the kickstart pad. 

695
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:13,600
Don't. 
You can read the back it page 

696
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:14,840
you've run. 
Obviously it's designed to tell 

697
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,160
you what's going on. 
But go to the song website, 

698
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,160
download the quick start. 
That's where you should start. 

699
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:25,240
There is a there are a bunch of 
the adventures are being 

700
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:29,280
displayed in like adventure 
envelopes, which is basically 

701
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,800
like a fancy map written by our 
in world vampire cartographer 

702
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,440
Aloysius Rex and also Tom 
Mackerty who is our real life 

703
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,160
cartographer. 
A series of maps for each 

704
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,320
adventure, which are then 
combined with all of these 

705
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,400
different like cards and 
pamphlets which allow you to put

706
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,240
basically it's an adventure in a
bag, which is a useful thing to 

707
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:51,720
carry around. 
So you grab a couple of those. 

708
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,400
There are then two dice sets 
which are available, one which 

709
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,480
is just D sixes. 
If you're a player, there's a 

710
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,720
fancy GM set you can buy. 
If you want a full polyhedral 

711
00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:03,520
set, you can get by with just 
the D sixes. 

712
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,760
But feel like I didn't sell a 
polyhedral set. 

713
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,240
People be coming at me with 
knives. 

714
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,080
And then also the final and like
the highest pledge level we have

715
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,480
is this thing called the Undying
edition, which is a copy of the 

716
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:20,640
book which is bound in leather 
and has a bunch of gemstones on 

717
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:25,040
it and is basically like a 
handmade by an artisan book 

718
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,680
binder in the UK to be the 
fanciest possible version of 

719
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,520
Paint the Town Rd. available. 
But they are of course very 

720
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,520
expensive because they are hand 
bound by a person in the UK to 

721
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,400
be the most beautiful version of
Paint the Town Rd. available. 

722
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,400
Yeah, So 2 questions. 
One, because I know you have a 

723
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,080
physical quick start in your 
hand. 

724
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,120
Does the physical quick start 
come with the physical pledges 

725
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:49,480
or is it just a PDF? 
Well. 

726
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,720
It's just a just a PDF because 
like ultimately this is like a 

727
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,440
starter book and I want you to 
have the whole thing to play 

728
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,360
because it's only going to be 
like about two hundred 220 pages

729
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:01,840
to start projected value at the 
moment. 

730
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,560
So you get that digitally. 
We might make it available and 

731
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,640
physically in the future, but 
like I'd really rather you just 

732
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,200
buy the full thing that's in the
version that we intended. 

733
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,040
This is mainly just like a 
little convention exclusive that

734
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:13,320
we're using to advertise the 
thing. 

735
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,880
I mean, but for us with problems
to get online, you know? 

736
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,920
For us that have an issue not 
having every possible thing of a

737
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,880
thing, if it were to be 
available, that would be cool 

738
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,520
'cause I need to. 
Maybe there's an add on level or

739
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,200
something we could make. 
Yeah, that's a good idea. 

740
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,920
So, so I have the tears up on 
the screen right now. 

741
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:38,880
If I wanted everything including
like the GM set and the player 

742
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,360
set, would that be like the 150 
creature of the night? 

743
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,640
Or would you want to go all the 
way up to like the life of the 

744
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,440
party? 
Whole whole shebang? 

745
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,880
There, so if you got both sets 
of dice that would be in at the 

746
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,680
Oh my God, you're now testing my
brain. 

747
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:59,040
I think that comes in at 200 the
200 mark, but I can't remember 

748
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:00,600
the page is more accurate than 
me. 

749
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,720
You definitely don't need both 
sets of dice. 

750
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,280
The one that I'd go in at if I 
was back in this home is the the

751
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,040
60 quid one that's just got the 
adventure in the two sets of 

752
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:11,760
envelopes. 
But you can't go wrong with some

753
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,880
fancy dice. 
You really can. 

754
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,520
The dice are insanely beautiful.
I mean like the blood liquid 

755
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:26,160
core, Yeah. 
And and you guys are at like 

756
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:31,240
just a couple 100 from funded. 
You're 24755 of a 2525 thousand 

757
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:32,680
dollar goal. 
You got more than two weeks 

758
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,520
left. 
So there's plenty of time to get

759
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,440
to stress goals and things like 
that. 

760
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,840
So what what the first like a 
couple of stretch goals that 

761
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,400
that you're going to hit here 
over on backer kit. 

762
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,840
What do we have to look forward 
to as far as that? 

763
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:50,840
Yeah, so I'm going to forget the
exact order they're in, but at a

764
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,960
certain amount, Johan's going to
do us AGM screen. 

765
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,280
That's going to be really cool. 
We've kind of earmarked the 

766
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,200
piece of art for that. 
We'll show it off at some point,

767
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,800
but I don't, I don't like 
talking about stretch goals too 

768
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,880
much before we fund it because 
it feels feels presumptive. 

769
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,200
But we've also got the Cold War 
adventure I was talking about 

770
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,000
earlier. 
We're going to be partnering up 

771
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,600
with Josh Clark as the artist on
that again, returning from 

772
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,920
Orbital Blues to make a bunch of
like Cold War inspired spy art 

773
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,720
for us and kind of covering all 
the different stuff from that 

774
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:21,720
medium. 
We're then going to be working 

775
00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:26,120
with Helen, Ariel, Silly, and 
now Laurie O'Connell and Wendy 

776
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,680
you, all of which are like 
fantastic who RPG writers who 

777
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,200
are going to make us something 
very cool. 

778
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,760
At one point, Elliot Davis is 
coming back following the 

779
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,840
success of Orbital Blues the 
Wanderer to write a solo version

780
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:45,600
for us that is called The 
Morning After, and that should 

781
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,880
be pretty slick. 
And there's a couple of other 

782
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,720
bits like printing things. 
The one I really want to get is 

783
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:59,040
like end paper marbling for the 
book that will have like swirly 

784
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,080
blood patterns upon the edge of 
the book, but that was a little 

785
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:03,560
bit far off. 
I'm not too confident about 

786
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,960
that, but I'd love to hear it. 
Yeah, that would be. 

787
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:08,720
That would be absolutely 
gorgeous. 

788
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:09,560
Sounds. 
Beautiful. 

789
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:17,920
So what else would you like for 
those people that might have 

790
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,040
like looked at the page and been
like, I like side game vampires,

791
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,280
but I haven't quite backed this 
yet. 

792
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,400
What could you say to those 
people to say, hey, this is a 

793
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:26,960
project that you want. 
This is the one that you need in

794
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,840
your hands and you should go. 
You should go back that right 

795
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:34,680
now. 
Yeah, this is like, I feel like 

796
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,040
a lot of people that are going 
to be listening to this 

797
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,560
interview right now going to be 
like, well, I've played Vampire 

798
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,600
the Record, I've played Vampire 
the Masquerade. 

799
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,360
I don't need to get involved 
with more vampire games. 

800
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:47,840
I have the vampire game ready, 
right? 

801
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,880
And I'd really think that those 
are great games. 

802
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,920
Like I've played a lot of 
Requiem and I've played a little

803
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,680
bit of Masquerade. 
Not as much as I'd like, but 

804
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:58,480
that's fine. 
My being all that. 

805
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,560
And I've really, the thing that 
I enjoyed about those games was 

806
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:09,560
like involving myself in like 
the melodrama of what that means

807
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,000
and the sometimes like the power
fantasies of that part of them 

808
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,360
death. 
Whereas this is a game that's 

809
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,920
not about power fantasies. 
This is a game about being 

810
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:21,680
fundamentally pathetic in an 
extremely human way. 

811
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,880
This is the RPG I've written 
that feels most about like the 

812
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,480
human experience and the 
emotional struggle and like the 

813
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:34,240
need to the want of something 
that these characters have is 

814
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:40,000
like deeply fundamental. 
And it's so much fun to play 

815
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,600
because, and it's so much fun to
GM as well because like, you 

816
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,840
don't need to do any prep to GM 
this game. 

817
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:53,600
You haven't got to make a quest 
or create a world or do anything

818
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,440
fancy. 
You just set your players down 

819
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,080
in the city and let them loose 
upon it and then react to 

820
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,720
whatever they do wrong. 
And they will do things wrong 

821
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,480
because they are people and they
are fundamentally very, very 

822
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,640
flawed people. 
And also they're playing 

823
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,680
vampires who act in a certain 
way. 

824
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:18,920
And it is been a game that, as 
I'd run it has reached, has has 

825
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:25,640
been joyful, has been comedic, 
has been deeply tragic, has been

826
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:32,800
about so many things can happen 
at the table when you sort of 

827
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,280
start taking the subtext of 
vampire fiction and starting to 

828
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,880
work out well, what happens if 
we go to the ultimate endpoint 

829
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,680
of this metaphor? 
Where could we end up? 

830
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,720
Right. 
And that is where we've landed 

831
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:52,080
on with this game, taken this 
idea of death, this idea of the 

832
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,960
change in state, this idea of 
what it means to be human, and 

833
00:48:54,960 --> 00:49:00,880
advanced it to its complete 
thematic and emotional endpoint 

834
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,640
and put it in an old 
role-playing game that is going 

835
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:09,280
to be in a beautiful book with 
gorgeous art presented by some 

836
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,240
of the finest creators in all of
RPGs. 

837
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:18,520
And I am also there. 
And that is something, and it's 

838
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,120
like the thing I've written, 
I've written a lot of games now 

839
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:23,800
and there's some stuff I'm 
really proud of. 

840
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,560
Like you guys have read it, you 
guys have enjoyed it. 

841
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,200
I'm very happy the fact that 
people have been able to do 

842
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,240
that, to touch the work that 
we've made all together and it's

843
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:36,040
got my personal stamp on a lot 
of it. 

844
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,720
Inevitable was like a really 
high point for me because like 

845
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,640
we talked about this earlier, 
that's a game I've been thinking

846
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:46,720
about for like 6 years and it's 
very much like who I was as a 

847
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:51,920
young man, right? 
And I'm very happy that that 

848
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:53,600
book now exists and other people
could read it. 

849
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,320
But this is the game that is not
about me as a young man. 

850
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,160
This game is about me as an as 
an adult, right? 

851
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,120
And a person who is not really 
much of a man anymore. 

852
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:08,040
But there's also other things 
and is very much about 

853
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,960
everything that it means to be 
human and is a part of my 

854
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,680
endpoint specifically. 
And I don't think I will write a

855
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:25,560
game that feels this emotionally
vulnerable to me personally for 

856
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,560
a little while now. 
I think I have to go through the

857
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,080
woods and write something about 
Dragons, I think, or Dark Souls 

858
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:32,160
or something. 
I don't know, right. 

859
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:38,960
But yeah, if you're familiar 
with my work, then hopefully the

860
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,960
sound of what I just said 
excites you. 

861
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,880
But if not, yeah, the vampires 
are real sad and they're real 

862
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:50,040
gay, and they have a hell of a 
time trying not to feel the way 

863
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,520
they do inside, and I think 
that's kind of beautiful. 

864
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,800
I do too. 
I've I really am in love with 

865
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,840
the the your like emotional 
concept of this and and how much

866
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,480
energy you've put into it and 
how much like truth there is in 

867
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:11,680
this game about like a fictional
creature that you can play. 

868
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,040
Thank you. 
Yeah, I mean, that's one thing 

869
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:23,080
that I love about some Muppet 
period, is you really latch onto

870
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,600
emotions and infuse him 
throughout the entire game. 

871
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,040
Like a lot of games, you know, 
try to do that or do it do it 

872
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,960
well, but it seems to be like a 
central ethos of all your games.

873
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,840
I mean, best luck Buried is 
fear. 

874
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,080
You know, like Orbital Blues is 
sad, but it's very much like sad

875
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,240
space cowboy and and the the 
cowboy themes really go with the

876
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:42,480
sadness. 
This is obviously sad as well, 

877
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:47,560
but that that level of like in 
like when you can stretch that 

878
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,800
sadness across immortality, 
there's this level of like sad 

879
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,400
on we mixed with those like 
bright spots of red savagery 

880
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,720
that just really come through. 
Even just going to the 

881
00:51:56,720 --> 00:51:59,400
Kickstarter and you, you infuse 
it in so many different ways. 

882
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,880
Like you said, even going 
through like the, the gutters 

883
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,320
and how the blood continues to 
like spread as you go through 

884
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,320
the chapter. 
You do such an amazing job of 

885
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,360
infusing the this incredibly 
deep level of emotion in in the 

886
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,240
writing and in the systems and 
things that I think a lot of 

887
00:52:13,240 --> 00:52:16,160
writers should really aspire 2IN
in their systems. 

888
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,040
And it's really beautiful to to 
have and to read and to play 

889
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:23,280
that. 
Means a lot. 

890
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,120
I'm very proud of it and I'm 
going to keep saying that 

891
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,280
because I am. 
You should be, you should be. 

892
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,360
I mean, I would be I would be 
very happy if I had paid a 

893
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:34,200
fraction of of what you had 
accomplished making so so these 

894
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:38,480
games like sad space Cowboys and
and and Arthurian and legends 

895
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:43,400
and and sad gay vampires. 
Where can people find those 

896
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,880
games that currently exist now? 
And obviously we'll drop the 

897
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,320
link to the backer kit below, 
but where can they find those 

898
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:53,760
those things now from you? 
So I am Zach or Jelly Muppet 

899
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,440
present as such on many of the 
social medias. 

900
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:02,240
You can find all of our existing
games on soul Muppet hyphen 

901
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:05,160
store.co.uk. 
If you search in some publishing

902
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:13,840
you will get to you get to we'll
find us back kit right now is 

903
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:17,560
the best place to Bart to to 
come and show your enthusiasm 

904
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,600
for this game. 
There is a discord that you can 

905
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,960
head to where there's people 
chatting constantly about all 

906
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,200
the Blues Inevitable and Paint 
the Town red and everything 

907
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:31,040
else. 
And yeah, there's lots of stuff 

908
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,040
coming out this month. 
If this game sounds interesting 

909
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,520
then there is a load of actual 
plays going on the moment for 

910
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,480
it. 
You could check out the My First

911
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:44,240
Dungeon one which is set in New 
York in the 20s. 

912
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:48,960
Which are the stacked cast? 
And then Super Dylan of the One 

913
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,200
Shot Network has just released 
episode 1 of Paint the Camera 

914
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,960
Today. 
They're doing an adventure set 

915
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,920
in ancient Rome, and that's 
going to be real fancy. 

916
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,800
So I haven't actually managed to
watch that one yet, but I'm 

917
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,120
looking forward to it. 
And then, yeah, we're just we're

918
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,640
all over the Internet right now.
And also on Blue Sky now that 

919
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,600
twist has exploded, which is so 
much fun. 

920
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,760
But yeah, I think that I think 
that's everything I need to 

921
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,520
plug. 
Come say hey to us wherever you 

922
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,120
fancy. 
And I will, as always, attempt 

923
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:21,880
to put the links below and all 
the things. 

924
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:23,800
But if you're listening and 
there's the link that we just 

925
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,880
talked about that I didn't put 
in there, just leave a comment 

926
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,080
and, and I'll do it. 
But I'll, I'll chat with Zach 

927
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,480
and, and sum up it and try to 
make sure we get the Discord 

928
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,160
links, CAP links and everything 
like that. 

929
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,080
So if you can't find something 
you're looking forward, just 

930
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:35,920
leave a message and I'll make 
sure to get that for you. 

931
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,560
But Zach, always a pleasure to 
talk to you. 

932
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:40,200
Always a pleasure to read your 
stuff. 

933
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,960
As long as we're doing this 
show, as long as you have stuff 

934
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,720
coming out, we'll be happy to 
talk to you and and talk about 

935
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:47,520
on the show. 
So, so very excited to get this 

936
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,320
one and actually get a chance to
flip through it on screen. 

937
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:50,640
But thank you so much for being 
here. 

938
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,160
We we genuinely appreciate every
time we get a chance to talk to 

939
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,840
you. 
Thank you so much Lance, it's 

940
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,880
been good to chat. 
Yeah, so if you were listening, 

941
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:02,800
please go back the backer kit, 
you know, we're going to get 

942
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,360
paid the town red, but I would 
love to get all of the the extra

943
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,000
stuff that that Zach has 
envisioned. 

944
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,040
So again, we'll make sure that 
the link is below and that is 

945
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:11,600
going to be our episode for 
today. 

946
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,480
So once again, thank you and 
thank you for listening everyone

947
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:14,640
out there. 
Bye. 

948
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:16,160
Thanks for. 
Listening speak to you soon.