1 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,800 Hello and welcome to the Weekly Scroll podcast. 2 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,880 My name is Ryan and with us today we have a very special 3 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,280 guest. This is Kayla Dice. 4 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,880 How are you doing today, Kayla? I'm doing good. 5 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:27,040 I'm doing good. It's lovely. 6 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:28,920 Lovely to be here. Yeah. 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:30,600 I mean this is a wonderful project. 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,480 I I only recently heard about it and as soon as I saw it I was 9 00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:37,440 like Oh no, we have to we absolutely have to have Kayla on 10 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,120 to talk about this project. It's gorgeous. 11 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,760 The mechanics look really fantastic. 12 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,680 The theme sound really amazing. So very excited to to have you 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,880 here on the show but for for those that might not know you 14 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,520 some from some of your previous work like who who who the heck 15 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,600 is Kayla Dice like what? Tell me about you and and your 16 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:02,990 teacher RPG's. Yeah, so I've been making TTRPG 17 00:01:02,990 --> 00:01:06,990 since about like 2021. Basically like December 2020 I 18 00:01:07,030 --> 00:01:08,990 think was is the day I often list. 19 00:01:10,390 --> 00:01:13,350 I published games as Rat Wave Gamehouse. 20 00:01:13,350 --> 00:01:17,350 Some of the things I've made include Transgender, Deathmatch, 21 00:01:17,350 --> 00:01:20,350 Legend, Old Gods, and Young Guns. 22 00:01:22,270 --> 00:01:24,110 Fear the taste of blood is no one I have. 23 00:01:24,110 --> 00:01:26,870 I'll be honest I've oh follow me in the night is one that 24 00:01:26,870 --> 00:01:31,790 actually sell like which I know people have played and enjoyed. 25 00:01:32,070 --> 00:01:33,790 I like. I never know which games of mind 26 00:01:33,790 --> 00:01:36,390 to say I've made because I don't know which people will know not 27 00:01:36,710 --> 00:01:39,750 that's me getting off topic. I often think my games are 28 00:01:39,750 --> 00:01:44,670 focused on like themes of alienation and connection. 29 00:01:44,830 --> 00:01:53,290 And yeah, I was. Awarded this year I was one of 30 00:01:53,290 --> 00:01:56,970 the winners of the Diana Jones Emerging Designer Award. 31 00:01:58,090 --> 00:02:03,970 And now I am working on and running the Kickstarter for 32 00:02:03,970 --> 00:02:07,730 Terminal, a digital pirate action game that I have made 33 00:02:07,730 --> 00:02:09,810 with other people. And I'm really proud of. 34 00:02:12,100 --> 00:02:14,620 Yeah, again, I mean, we're going to get to Terminal because it's, 35 00:02:14,620 --> 00:02:16,900 it's a really gorgeous project. But one of the things I want to 36 00:02:16,900 --> 00:02:19,300 talk about a little bit was the the Awardy 1. 37 00:02:19,300 --> 00:02:23,740 So I know of the award mostly because of some of the, you 38 00:02:23,740 --> 00:02:28,140 know, discourse around this year with some of the stuff that I 39 00:02:28,140 --> 00:02:30,660 felt like overshadowed the entire thing. 40 00:02:31,220 --> 00:02:33,540 But can you tell me about that? Is that something that you 41 00:02:33,540 --> 00:02:34,820 applied for? That's something that you were 42 00:02:34,820 --> 00:02:36,260 chosen for? Like how? 43 00:02:36,260 --> 00:02:38,780 How does that come about to become like the award winner for 44 00:02:38,780 --> 00:02:44,720 this, like emerging? Yeah, I self nominated. 45 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,880 It's like a whole quite an indepth thing to like write a 46 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,520 bio, write like what you thought like the future held for you and 47 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,880 then send samples of your work over. 48 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,600 And then I think they announced 8 finalists. 49 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:04,480 I remember because there are a lot of like really, really cool 50 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:09,680 people on the sort of finalists list TO11 chosen after. 51 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,480 And then they announced like the the four winners. 52 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,440 And so as part of the prize, like I'm going to Jencon later 53 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,600 this year, which is really exciting. 54 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,320 It's weird to be going to Jencon at a point where, like, you're 55 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,520 moving your flat because you can't afford to pay the rent. 56 00:03:29,170 --> 00:03:31,570 Just because they're raising it. I've thought like, but it's 57 00:03:31,570 --> 00:03:34,610 that's that's a weird thing that is only happening because of 58 00:03:35,090 --> 00:03:38,010 this water, which is nice. The things I sent in, I sent in 59 00:03:38,010 --> 00:03:40,650 bit of Transgender, Deathmatch, Legend and Old Gods. 60 00:03:40,650 --> 00:03:44,370 And then I also sent in the Infinite Dance Floor, which was 61 00:03:44,370 --> 00:03:50,130 a game I I made about trying to escape this sort of winding 62 00:03:50,210 --> 00:03:53,970 labyrinthian nightclub, all set to sort of music. 63 00:03:53,970 --> 00:03:57,270 So. Yeah I just had to sort of it 64 00:03:57,270 --> 00:03:59,750 was it's a it's a very self-conscious thing to self 65 00:03:59,750 --> 00:04:04,030 nominate for an award because I'm like I think Kayla is so 66 00:04:04,030 --> 00:04:08,310 great This is why I think Kayla is great. 67 00:04:08,990 --> 00:04:11,470 The For these reasons specifically, it's weird. 68 00:04:11,470 --> 00:04:16,510 I I'm glad I did it because I think like it's it's always 69 00:04:16,510 --> 00:04:19,790 inherently I think a bit embarrassing to to try and talk 70 00:04:19,790 --> 00:04:22,980 about. Yourself, but also if you don't 71 00:04:22,980 --> 00:04:24,500 know, one's going to be listening. 72 00:04:26,340 --> 00:04:29,580 So a lot of those awards do that. 73 00:04:29,580 --> 00:04:31,460 They're like the innies, you have to self nominate for the 74 00:04:31,460 --> 00:04:34,220 innies and stuff like that too. So it's kind of, I mean there's 75 00:04:34,220 --> 00:04:36,380 just so much out there. I think it would be hard for for 76 00:04:36,380 --> 00:04:41,700 people to really be able to focus in on, I don't know, even 77 00:04:41,700 --> 00:04:45,020 just one part of like this huge like river of things streaming 78 00:04:45,020 --> 00:04:47,860 by. But you know it's. 79 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,640 Definitely for like an emerging designer thing where it's like 80 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:56,680 the entire point is you're in theory grabbing people who are 81 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,400 people are less aware of and hopefully like exposing them to 82 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,800 a wider audience. And like it would be a sort of 83 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,680 like huge task if someone was just like nobody just scouting 84 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,840 for that. No, no nominations, no self 85 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:11,640 nominations. Like the self nomination thing, 86 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,080 It does at least make it more possible for. 87 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,150 For people. Yeah, absolutely. 88 00:05:17,350 --> 00:05:19,910 And you know, and you want and you get to go to Jim Cotton, 89 00:05:19,910 --> 00:05:22,510 which is really fantastic. I mean and it's isn't that like 90 00:05:22,510 --> 00:05:23,990 all expense paid and everything too. 91 00:05:23,990 --> 00:05:26,150 So like you just get to come on over here. 92 00:05:26,150 --> 00:05:28,710 And is it? Where is Jen Cotton by the way? 93 00:05:29,310 --> 00:05:30,710 I know it's in August. Yeah. 94 00:05:30,750 --> 00:05:32,430 Yeah, in Annapolis. That's right. 95 00:05:32,670 --> 00:05:33,790 When is that? Yeah, yeah. 96 00:05:34,510 --> 00:05:36,590 Sorry. I heard when Jen Con is that. 97 00:05:36,590 --> 00:05:37,950 No, I said where. Yeah, you're right here that. 98 00:05:37,950 --> 00:05:38,790 Yeah. Right. 99 00:05:38,790 --> 00:05:39,870 You did say that. I did hear it. 100 00:05:40,030 --> 00:05:41,070 I did hear it. Right, Yeah. 101 00:05:41,750 --> 00:05:47,870 Yeah, it's no, that's all expenses paid initially like a 102 00:05:48,630 --> 00:05:49,870 gig issue. I was like, can you buy your 103 00:05:49,870 --> 00:05:52,150 ticket and get a refund? And I was like, no, I under no 104 00:05:52,150 --> 00:05:55,950 circumstances can afford a plane ticket to America even if I was 105 00:05:55,950 --> 00:05:57,350 getting that money back the next. 106 00:05:57,390 --> 00:05:59,190 And there's not that much money in my account. 107 00:06:00,470 --> 00:06:02,150 So it does. It does feel like a really 108 00:06:02,670 --> 00:06:04,400 unique. Opportunity. 109 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,320 I don't want to say once in a lifetime because I feel that 110 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,720 implies something about how I feel the rest of my life is 111 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,960 going. But like it feels rare and is 112 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,440 not saying I am able to replicate without this 113 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,120 assistance like next year or anything. 114 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,680 So it does feel like a really exciting to to get to go out 115 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,160 there that's really that's fantastic. 116 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:23,920 Again, like, you know, congratulations. 117 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,680 I mean, if Terminal is in any way, shape or form indicative of 118 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,280 the stuff you're going to create, I feel like it is 119 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:31,120 incredibly well deserved. So. 120 00:06:33,420 --> 00:06:35,900 So one of the things you discussed as well is the themes 121 00:06:35,900 --> 00:06:38,620 of a lot of your projects. And I know Terminal, you know, 122 00:06:38,620 --> 00:06:42,660 has a lot of themes that you've discussed and might come up in 123 00:06:42,660 --> 00:06:46,340 your previous games. What did you say those themes 124 00:06:46,340 --> 00:06:50,020 were, and what really kind of draws you to create specifically 125 00:06:50,020 --> 00:06:51,780 tabletop games, you know, with those themes? 126 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:56,980 Yeah, I often say. My games are often about like 127 00:06:56,980 --> 00:07:00,700 alienation and connection. Being honest, I only noticed 128 00:07:00,700 --> 00:07:04,060 that afterwards I like often felt like like create a lot of 129 00:07:04,060 --> 00:07:06,020 different games. And I was struggling to talk 130 00:07:06,020 --> 00:07:10,420 about it when I was telling people because they're like what 131 00:07:10,420 --> 00:07:11,660 kind of games do you make? And I was like well, 132 00:07:11,660 --> 00:07:16,260 mechanically they're not always that similar, you know, like I I 133 00:07:16,260 --> 00:07:20,020 made like an action game and then I made like a belonging 134 00:07:20,020 --> 00:07:23,540 outside belonging game. And then after that I was making 135 00:07:23,540 --> 00:07:26,220 like a card based fighting game and I was like none of these 136 00:07:26,220 --> 00:07:28,490 are. Mechanically similar. 137 00:07:28,490 --> 00:07:31,090 I can't necessarily say if you enjoy how this thing played, 138 00:07:31,090 --> 00:07:32,410 you'll enjoy how this thing played. 139 00:07:32,610 --> 00:07:36,370 You might, but that's not necessarily on the basis of what 140 00:07:36,370 --> 00:07:37,930 I've done. And so I was looking over the 141 00:07:37,930 --> 00:07:40,130 themes of my work and I was like, oh, yes, so many of these 142 00:07:40,130 --> 00:07:43,210 do focus on this idea of alienation or connection. 143 00:07:43,210 --> 00:07:47,010 You're often a lot of the characters in games I make are 144 00:07:47,010 --> 00:07:51,970 kind of there's something that is at least mentally putting you 145 00:07:51,970 --> 00:07:56,170 on the outside in a sort of outsider role and often. 146 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,000 I think there is a big emphasis and a lot of my things say like 147 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,560 how to embrace this one preacher which is very much about my like 148 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,520 adolescence is about like the relationships you're forming 149 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,680 with other people. Like if I'm being honest like 150 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,440 what I think that is informed by is a sense of alienation I felt 151 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:17,560 for a lot of my life and which like I'd a tribute to when I was 152 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,640 I was growing up in a I guess like close minded area and I'm 153 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:27,650 autistic and. You know, not that I wasn't out 154 00:08:27,650 --> 00:08:29,130 when I was younger, but I am trans. 155 00:08:29,130 --> 00:08:32,450 And it's like there was a part of me that I think for most of 156 00:08:32,450 --> 00:08:35,650 my life, definitely for my most of my adolescence. 157 00:08:35,650 --> 00:08:38,250 And then honestly, for a lot of my adult life, I felt like apart 158 00:08:38,250 --> 00:08:41,289 from other people and alien to other people. 159 00:08:41,289 --> 00:08:44,770 And so even now as an adult, I think I carry that sense with 160 00:08:44,770 --> 00:08:46,330 me. Even if I look around at my life 161 00:08:46,330 --> 00:08:49,810 and go like, oh, I I now know lots of people who are a lot 162 00:08:49,810 --> 00:08:53,130 like me and who I feel like really in touch with, I do think 163 00:08:53,130 --> 00:08:57,200 I'm still carrying. That sense that like old self 164 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,600 perception. And so I think that is why I go 165 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,760 to the theme a lot in games and sometimes it's very explicit how 166 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,000 to embrace the swamp creature was like a belonging outside 167 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,680 belonging game and it was very much sort of filtered 168 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,880 autobiography. And so that was a like sort of 169 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,760 conscious like engagement with that. 170 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,480 Other times I just noticed that after the facts like I like, I 171 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,320 wrote an adventure. I was like, oh, I don't know if 172 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,280 this relates to my sort of like, key themes, at least what I say. 173 00:09:26,100 --> 00:09:28,420 In talking about myself. And then I looked at it more and 174 00:09:28,420 --> 00:09:31,220 I was like, Oh no, this is so much about the relationship with 175 00:09:31,220 --> 00:09:34,700 this singular MPC and how you feel if you realize you don't 176 00:09:34,700 --> 00:09:37,540 really know each other. And with Terminal, I definitely 177 00:09:37,540 --> 00:09:41,340 knew I was like going back to that, well, because it's so much 178 00:09:41,340 --> 00:09:45,260 about this idea of like the entire world is wrong and you 179 00:09:45,540 --> 00:09:47,620 feel like the only person who can see that. 180 00:09:47,620 --> 00:09:53,230 And that makes you feel crazy. Yeah. 181 00:09:53,390 --> 00:09:58,750 I mean it it's really interesting how so many people, 182 00:09:58,750 --> 00:10:01,790 especially through the Pandemic and post Pandemic, we're really 183 00:10:01,790 --> 00:10:05,030 able to kind of dig into not only games but themselves like 184 00:10:05,350 --> 00:10:08,470 through the process. So it's really nice to see that 185 00:10:08,470 --> 00:10:14,590 kind of come through. And I know with Terminal, let's 186 00:10:14,590 --> 00:10:17,390 just so let's get into Terminal. Why don't you talk about tell me 187 00:10:17,390 --> 00:10:20,910 what Terminal is like, as like what's the, what's the, what's 188 00:10:20,910 --> 00:10:22,510 the byline, what's the pitch for Terminal? 189 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,640 So Terminal. I describe it as a digital 190 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,560 pirate action game. The basic premise is the world 191 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:32,680 as you know it turns the 21st century. 192 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:35,720 Earth is a lie. It is nothing but a simulation 193 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,640 called the titular terminal that is designed to keep humanity 194 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:44,320 trapped by the robot authority and. 195 00:10:44,740 --> 00:10:47,060 There are those people who can feel it's wrong and confine 196 00:10:47,060 --> 00:10:49,620 themselves to escape, and then they end up in the real world, 197 00:10:49,620 --> 00:10:53,220 where humanity in the robots in the early conflict shattered the 198 00:10:53,220 --> 00:10:57,700 moon, flooded the world, and now they they sail the seas. 199 00:10:57,700 --> 00:11:00,300 They do battle with killer robots, they plug back into the 200 00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:01,900 system and they try and take down. 201 00:11:01,900 --> 00:11:08,880 It's a I think we lost Kayla for just a second. 202 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:15,120 We'll get her back momentarily. And they nail beyond them. 203 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:18,920 There we go. I think we're back again. 204 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,560 Yep, I think we're back. So I think you cut off right 205 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:25,840 after you started talking about the destruction of the moon and 206 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,200 that the robot authority had done. 207 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,830 Yeah. Yeah, so the Earth is is 208 00:11:30,830 --> 00:11:34,710 flooded, your characters, your Pirates of the wake the real 209 00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:38,510 World sail the seas, battle killer robots and they plug back 210 00:11:38,510 --> 00:11:42,110 into the simulation and fight the systems, agents and 211 00:11:42,110 --> 00:11:45,590 architects and trying to sort of free other people who are still 212 00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:50,310 sort of stuck in that situation. I'd say it's like it's very 213 00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:51,830 obviously inspired by the Matrix. 214 00:11:52,390 --> 00:11:55,910 And then from there there's the bringing in of like sort of 215 00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:59,310 pirate influences. And there's a lot of thought on 216 00:11:59,310 --> 00:12:02,350 like sort of like dreams and dream logic and nightmares. 217 00:12:02,350 --> 00:12:04,270 You know the way to freeing a sleeper. 218 00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:07,390 The person caught in this simulation in the game is often 219 00:12:07,390 --> 00:12:10,750 like diving into their dreams, defeating nightmares they have, 220 00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:14,030 and helping them reach a door where they can wake up. 221 00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:20,270 It's rules wise. It's a it's based on inevitable 222 00:12:20,270 --> 00:12:23,430 by so Muppets. So it's the key things are sort 223 00:12:23,430 --> 00:12:26,830 of your reputations, how people think of you, how? 224 00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:29,430 You know that and that. Maybe people you respect it, 225 00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:31,310 maybe people you begrudgingly respect it. 226 00:12:31,310 --> 00:12:34,950 Maybe people who hate you, but how you afford of by like 2 227 00:12:34,950 --> 00:12:39,750 Worlds and then also so that's how it's decided and challenges 228 00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:43,190 and then there's also showdowns where it's really what you are 229 00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:48,270 willing to give up as a cost. You know, you're fighting the 230 00:12:48,270 --> 00:12:52,590 weight of the world and you need to be prepared to, like, burn 231 00:12:52,590 --> 00:12:58,030 down a lot of things just to. Achieve a future and build 232 00:12:58,030 --> 00:13:01,670 something outside of this manipulative control of the 233 00:13:01,670 --> 00:13:06,630 robots. So what was the kind of seed 234 00:13:06,630 --> 00:13:07,990 that started this? Was it? 235 00:13:08,190 --> 00:13:11,830 Were you thinking about like making a game with Matrix as an 236 00:13:11,830 --> 00:13:14,270 inspiration, or were the mechanics started it and that's 237 00:13:14,270 --> 00:13:15,630 just kind of the direction it went in? 238 00:13:15,870 --> 00:13:18,550 Like what was the impetus for the beginning of the project? 239 00:13:20,390 --> 00:13:28,070 So I was a play tester for inevitable if I sold my bit and 240 00:13:28,070 --> 00:13:30,670 I I play tested in that game like played a campaign that was 241 00:13:30,670 --> 00:13:33,150 maybe three months and I had a lot of fun. 242 00:13:33,150 --> 00:13:36,310 And as that finished it's Kickstarter, I was talking a lot 243 00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:39,750 about it with Zach from Solo bit and often just bouncing around 244 00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:42,310 like sort of like random ideas, like sometimes more as a 245 00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:44,870 hypothetical way, just like oh, I bet you could do. 246 00:13:46,770 --> 00:13:49,930 You know, like a Ragnarok story in the inevitable system or 247 00:13:49,930 --> 00:13:51,690 something like that. And at one point I said I think 248 00:13:51,690 --> 00:13:54,090 you could do the Matrix and after a back and they were like, 249 00:13:54,090 --> 00:13:56,010 I don't think you could. And then I was like actually I 250 00:13:56,010 --> 00:13:57,650 think you could do the Matrix sequels. 251 00:13:57,650 --> 00:13:59,850 And I think that would be a good thing because I like those 252 00:13:59,850 --> 00:14:03,370 films. But like that was just the 253 00:14:03,370 --> 00:14:05,010 starting point. And then like in a notepad I was 254 00:14:05,010 --> 00:14:10,570 just putting out some ideas and part of the reason like pirate 255 00:14:10,570 --> 00:14:12,770 influence then came in. So it was always the starting 256 00:14:12,770 --> 00:14:15,810 point of the system meeting the Matrix. 257 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,200 And then other influences are really where it developed some. 258 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,440 Some of that was very conscious at start like I was like I 259 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,160 didn't entirely want to do a it's just the matrix of the 260 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,040 serial numbers filed off. Not necessarily be anything 261 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,280 wrong with that, but it felt like I wouldn't have necessarily 262 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,240 enjoyed writing characters and settings in that world because 263 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,000 I'd go back to thinking of everyone as like this is almost 264 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,520 Morpheus, but not I ended up settling into like this par 265 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,320 influence. Which kind of brought a lot of 266 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:53,160 themes about like about control and about like society and 267 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:58,600 people who are, you know, not sort of like fitting in in in a 268 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:03,880 society or can't sort of like click in this system that isn't 269 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,760 really very designed to be cruel and then like a key change. 270 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,480 Like both like. Setting wise. 271 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,640 But then also that had this big knock on effect was I decided 272 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,600 like on the Matrix they plug all these people in and they're 273 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,280 using them for energy. And I decided well what if 274 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,240 they're not doing that? What if they're just doing it 275 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,800 because they think the simulation is what people 276 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,800 deserve and what society should look like. 277 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,200 And that for me really unlocked a lot of where like the games 278 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:33,840 themes came about. Specifically this idea. 279 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,480 I say sometimes if it's like it's about feeling crazy and 280 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,630 it's about. People and forces that wanted 281 00:15:39,630 --> 00:15:43,950 you to feel crazy and wanted to to use that against you. 282 00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:50,470 So yeah, it's like, I know on its surface I'm like, I have to 283 00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:53,750 say like it's Matrix crossed with Black Sails and it's like a 284 00:15:53,750 --> 00:15:56,310 big swashbuckling cyberpug adventure game. 285 00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:59,990 And it is. But also there is, you know, for 286 00:15:59,990 --> 00:16:04,350 me it actually ended up like channeling a lot of things I've 287 00:16:04,350 --> 00:16:06,030 like to struggle to have over my life. 288 00:16:07,650 --> 00:16:09,690 Yeah, I mean like you said before you, it seems like you 289 00:16:09,690 --> 00:16:13,010 channel a lot of yourself into your games. 290 00:16:13,250 --> 00:16:16,410 So it's interesting to see the variety of different games and 291 00:16:16,410 --> 00:16:18,170 and where this one's going to go. 292 00:16:18,330 --> 00:16:23,450 I'm actually surprised kind of with the Matrix how like there 293 00:16:23,450 --> 00:16:26,530 hasn't kind of been more spin off stuff of the Matrix. 294 00:16:26,530 --> 00:16:29,330 Like it's just a system where you plug people into a 295 00:16:29,330 --> 00:16:32,010 simulation. So why is so much of it always 296 00:16:32,010 --> 00:16:36,130 like the late 90s when you could easily plug people into like 297 00:16:36,660 --> 00:16:39,060 pirate times or like medieval times? 298 00:16:39,060 --> 00:16:40,980 Like I'm kind of almost more surprised. 299 00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:43,140 I mean you kind of then or make it like Isakai at that point. 300 00:16:43,140 --> 00:16:46,860 But like I, it's always kind of surprised me that they didn't do 301 00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:49,860 more spin offs like the Animatrix and stuff where people 302 00:16:49,860 --> 00:16:51,100 are plugged into different systems. 303 00:16:51,380 --> 00:16:53,340 And I think it's a great, a great idea and a great concept 304 00:16:53,340 --> 00:16:55,940 to think of to have these like you know, kind of the themes of 305 00:16:55,940 --> 00:16:59,180 plugging people into the Matrix. But to have, I mean I feel like 306 00:16:59,180 --> 00:17:01,980 sailing pirate ships would be so easy considering the in the 307 00:17:01,980 --> 00:17:04,140 later sequels like you talked about, a lot of them are on 308 00:17:04,460 --> 00:17:07,060 actual ships like the Nebuchadnezzar and whatnot and 309 00:17:07,060 --> 00:17:08,819 they're just like going through the outside. 310 00:17:08,819 --> 00:17:11,819 So why not plug them into to actually doing ships as well. 311 00:17:12,060 --> 00:17:16,060 So I'm I'm excited to see a you know again it's not just Matrix 312 00:17:16,060 --> 00:17:20,839 with the serial number filed off but to see like the Matrix but 313 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,720 like as pirates like that sounds like such a fun mash of of what 314 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,599 to do especially if you've you know tweaked the tweaked the 315 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:32,040 world and and brought in all these extra themes and what not. 316 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,280 Also though, like why? What first made you say, when 317 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:38,840 you were you know, talking about inevitable? 318 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,280 But like the Matrix, was that? Like was there any link between 319 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,320 like the like the Bakowskis and and The Matrix? 320 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,560 Or is Matrix just like a piece of media that you've you've 321 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,010 always loved or? I like, I'm trying to think. 322 00:17:51,010 --> 00:17:59,890 When I first saw The Matrix, I think I was 14 maybe and I think 323 00:17:59,890 --> 00:18:03,490 my sister's boyfriend at the time, elder sister's boyfriend 324 00:18:03,490 --> 00:18:05,490 told me I should see it. So I ended up watching over 325 00:18:05,490 --> 00:18:06,810 weekend. I liked all of like. 326 00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:11,420 The free films, I don't, I mean I to be honest, I don't have 327 00:18:11,420 --> 00:18:14,500 much memories from before I was 16 anyway. 328 00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:18,140 They were all kind of blurry. But like I don't remember 329 00:18:18,660 --> 00:18:21,420 necessarily thinking about it in like a trans way at that time. 330 00:18:21,420 --> 00:18:27,580 And I remember it was when I was, I know, 19 or 20 and was 331 00:18:27,580 --> 00:18:30,660 semi like newly out and someone was like, Oh yeah, Matrix. 332 00:18:30,740 --> 00:18:33,260 Matrix is trans, all right. You know, probably before that 333 00:18:33,260 --> 00:18:36,140 because. Ilana Wachowski came out before 334 00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:39,380 I did, and I think at that point the sort of obviousness of oh, 335 00:18:39,380 --> 00:18:40,900 is this a metaphor in that sense? 336 00:18:41,460 --> 00:18:43,140 So that's probably why I've always liked it. 337 00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:46,780 I was thinking a lot about The Matrix because of the full film 338 00:18:46,780 --> 00:18:48,700 that came out like two years ago. 339 00:18:49,660 --> 00:18:52,100 I think I'd watched The Matrix recently at the time. 340 00:18:52,380 --> 00:18:54,540 And in terms of me linking, it's a system of inevitable. 341 00:18:54,540 --> 00:18:57,940 It's like a never listless idea of like failure. 342 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,480 Constantly, like is always going to happen, is often about like 343 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:08,240 sort of trying in vain and also about like this sort of like big 344 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,400 stakes and big pivotal showdowns. 345 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,440 And I just remember thinking like, oh, you know, what is it 346 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,800 here if the thing that is inevitable, the thing that is 347 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,960 doomed, is, you know, an iteration of a simulation? 348 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,480 And that then was like like a nice time point thinking like 349 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,800 because that is ultimately sort of this apocalyptic scale, it's 350 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:31,840 actually an interesting thing. Maybe. 351 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,480 I think a difference in that is because I feel like the early 352 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,160 on, like in Matrix we loaded the Architect is like this 353 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:40,480 simulation is going to crash soon. 354 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,120 And we don't actually see what that looks like. 355 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,160 We just know it and then everything gets smithed. 356 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,120 But this idea of like all the simulation itself is gradually 357 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:54,910 becoming unstable. And in a game sense, that's 358 00:19:54,910 --> 00:19:57,070 really interesting because I think it fans out. 359 00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:59,310 This thing of like instability is introduced. 360 00:19:59,710 --> 00:20:03,030 A reincarnation of like a really powerful figure has emerged. 361 00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:06,590 And instead of like it then being this linear narrative, 362 00:20:06,590 --> 00:20:09,470 it's like there are so many people who are scrambling to 363 00:20:09,470 --> 00:20:12,870 make that sort of final moves in the face of this digital 364 00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:21,250 apocalypse. So you talk about the inevitable 365 00:20:21,250 --> 00:20:25,770 system in the sense of, I mean it's called inevitable for a 366 00:20:25,770 --> 00:20:27,770 reason, to make sense when you think of the system and stuff 367 00:20:27,770 --> 00:20:31,090 like that. And at its core, you use the 368 00:20:31,090 --> 00:20:34,730 core mechanics of that, which I love, the core mechanics that 369 00:20:34,730 --> 00:20:36,370 you use here. And inevitable. 370 00:20:36,370 --> 00:20:39,210 We did talk to Zach previously about inevitable because this 371 00:20:39,210 --> 00:20:44,740 style of mechanic really lends to their narrative a lot without 372 00:20:44,780 --> 00:20:46,260 mechanically like getting in the way. 373 00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:50,380 And I love systems that are that have that feel where the 374 00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:53,260 mechanics are there like just enough to have more of like a 375 00:20:53,260 --> 00:20:56,860 like a framework and a guide as opposed to this thing that you 376 00:20:56,860 --> 00:20:58,820 also have to deal with while you're playing. 377 00:20:59,810 --> 00:21:02,330 And I think it's it's a really, really well done in in in the 378 00:21:02,330 --> 00:21:04,570 parts of Terminal they've seen so far. 379 00:21:04,770 --> 00:21:06,050 But what are those core mechanics? 380 00:21:06,050 --> 00:21:09,130 I know two of the big ones are challenges and showdowns they 381 00:21:09,130 --> 00:21:12,130 have, you know they're similar because it's a system that makes 382 00:21:12,130 --> 00:21:13,850 sense within itself. But I know they're very 383 00:21:13,850 --> 00:21:14,930 different. So what? 384 00:21:14,930 --> 00:21:17,690 What if you don't mind talking about the core mechanic of like 385 00:21:17,690 --> 00:21:20,730 a challenge and then of a of a showdown? 386 00:21:20,810 --> 00:21:23,570 What are those core mechanics? Yeah. 387 00:21:23,570 --> 00:21:26,370 So a challenge is often any sort of like. 388 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,440 Smaller scale thing where you're trying to sort of gain you know 389 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,680 when there is something that can go wrong. 390 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,600 And the same, you want to accomplish challenges like a 391 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,640 series of questions which help you build your dice pool. 392 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,360 And those questions often may relate to like do you have 393 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:44,800 reputations that are helpful here? 394 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,800 Does the fact that you are brave help you as you're trying to, 395 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,520 like you know, hack into this machine's brain to find out the 396 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,360 location of? You know a robot ship which has 397 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:57,480 captured one of your your comrades. 398 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,520 Does your fact you're brave helpful? 399 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,000 Is it? Is it not? 400 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,480 That might give you a dice. Does the fact that you are 401 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,720 emotional make you more likely to mess up and does that lose 402 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,360 you a dice? Some things like equipment are 403 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:14,920 you alone can have people help. It's a fairly sort of like easy 404 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,670 thing to go through. Definitely. 405 00:22:17,670 --> 00:22:20,750 Like in the the format is presented and then that gives 406 00:22:20,750 --> 00:22:24,150 you your final pull and you roll and usually if you are 407 00:22:24,150 --> 00:22:26,870 successful like it's mainly like I think it's principal thing 408 00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:31,870 it's it's driving the narrative, it's what happens next in terms 409 00:22:31,870 --> 00:22:34,030 of then how that informs mechanics of showdown though it 410 00:22:34,030 --> 00:22:38,870 can be opportunities to gain showdown tokens. 411 00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:42,070 So it's essentially a reward for like you have been in the build 412 00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:44,950 up of this adventure, you've been. 413 00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:47,510 Doing things that are giving you a fighting chance. 414 00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:51,230 When you get to this final showdown, if things go wrong, it 415 00:22:51,230 --> 00:22:54,710 may be like, well, actually this this fret is getting worse, this 416 00:22:54,790 --> 00:22:57,190 thing is getting bigger because you've screwed up in ways that 417 00:22:57,190 --> 00:23:01,630 are letting them get stronger. And middle options may be sort 418 00:23:01,630 --> 00:23:03,950 of you know. Other drawbacks can be presented 419 00:23:03,950 --> 00:23:06,750 as well as getting. You're sort of chance at a 420 00:23:06,750 --> 00:23:08,710 token. It may be you're you're injuring 421 00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:10,270 yourself. Maybe you're damaging your 422 00:23:10,270 --> 00:23:14,350 relationships with other people. It may be that while you're 423 00:23:14,350 --> 00:23:16,750 focusing on this one thing, something else is getting worse 424 00:23:16,750 --> 00:23:18,710 elsewhere. And then when you reach the 425 00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:21,110 point of showdown, you know it's from there. 426 00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:22,230 Everything else gets stripped away. 427 00:23:22,230 --> 00:23:24,790 It's a single roll. You're getting all of your 428 00:23:24,790 --> 00:23:27,350 bonuses for you know you've done well. 429 00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:30,140 Against all of this threat, which is the here's where you 430 00:23:30,140 --> 00:23:32,260 may be fucked up or let things get away. 431 00:23:32,580 --> 00:23:34,980 And you need to add a last bonus, which is by figuring out 432 00:23:34,980 --> 00:23:37,060 the cost. This is where, like the rules 433 00:23:37,060 --> 00:23:42,460 slightly differ from inevitable. The mafia is just sort of like 434 00:23:42,980 --> 00:23:46,700 all all being added and cost is always happening because you 435 00:23:46,700 --> 00:23:50,820 were just trying to. Beat the single sort of frat and 436 00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:53,260 the cost is you know what you're willing to play. 437 00:23:53,260 --> 00:23:55,900 Some of the differences in the game I know inevitable is like a 438 00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:59,300 play to lose game and I think of Terminal is 1 where it is much 439 00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:01,380 more straightforwardly possible to win. 440 00:24:01,940 --> 00:24:06,020 Win for given value things, but like succeed, but you are having 441 00:24:06,020 --> 00:24:08,580 to play to decide what you're willing to lose. 442 00:24:08,580 --> 00:24:11,700 You know, if it's a showdown where it's like you're 443 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:16,940 destroying this doppelganger of, you know your. 444 00:24:17,380 --> 00:24:22,220 Ex best friend who's passed away is does the cost you're willing 445 00:24:22,220 --> 00:24:24,140 to pay, like, you know, a loss of your reputation. 446 00:24:24,140 --> 00:24:27,460 You were Stony hearted and now you're like, you know, troubled, 447 00:24:27,460 --> 00:24:32,380 rattled or something. Is it bigger things like, oh, we 448 00:24:32,380 --> 00:24:37,140 do this and we're getting hated by all of these people because 449 00:24:37,180 --> 00:24:39,900 they're going to see it as we did something that's different. 450 00:24:40,220 --> 00:24:42,700 Is it, you know, literal like injury or damaged where you're 451 00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:45,840 like, yeah, I'm going to. Like, I'm going to wrap my hands 452 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,800 around his throat and then he's going to explode and I'm losing 453 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,400 this arm and you're you as a player are leveraging this 454 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:52,840 thing. You're talking about it and 455 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,680 agreeing of it, the GM. And then you have to make this 456 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,600 role and that thing happens even if you then fail. 457 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,160 And then it's the case of in this limited window, Can someone 458 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:07,240 else stand up and save yourself that it's like these big 459 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,920 dramatic moments? I guess in terms of thinking 460 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,600 about The Matrix, it's things like. 461 00:25:12,110 --> 00:25:15,350 The fight in the hallway at the end of the first one, all the 462 00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:19,390 sort of the burly brawl like these are these big sort of like 463 00:25:19,390 --> 00:25:24,310 set piece moments which then like the challenges are building 464 00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:29,070 up towards in a sort of episodic or sessional sense. 465 00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:31,310 Sessional I don't think is a word. 466 00:25:31,470 --> 00:25:33,910 Sounds like it could be though. Hey it is now. 467 00:25:33,950 --> 00:25:35,270 I'm fine with it. I'll use it. 468 00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:39,070 So, So primarily you're going to be doing for like the basic 469 00:25:39,070 --> 00:25:41,230 things that you're doing, you're going to be doing the the 470 00:25:41,230 --> 00:25:44,030 challenges. That's that's the the thing that 471 00:25:44,030 --> 00:25:46,390 you probably do more often. Showdowns are like you just say 472 00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:48,870 like the big kind of narrative moments, the final boss fights, 473 00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:51,350 like those kind of things. Those are kind of the two main, 474 00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:52,630 main aspects they're going to be doing. 475 00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:55,950 Yeah, yeah. And then there are like sort of 476 00:25:55,950 --> 00:25:58,150 smaller stuff that can put it and then a lot of it is. 477 00:25:58,910 --> 00:26:02,630 Away from like mechanized stuff and about like how you are 478 00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:06,270 connecting to characters around you where that character's your 479 00:26:06,270 --> 00:26:09,350 own crew because you're all a pirate crew of ships wherever. 480 00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:12,830 It's your pirate comrades on land, some of whom might like 481 00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:14,550 really think then similar ways to you. 482 00:26:14,550 --> 00:26:17,990 Some of whom are on the same side as you but are really 483 00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:21,150 opposed to like everything about how you go about things. 484 00:26:22,110 --> 00:26:24,350 You're going to be role-playing out scenes where you're dealing 485 00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:27,430 with the routine programs at the terminal. 486 00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:31,300 Who are? You know, vicious obstacles and 487 00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:36,540 who will attempt to sort of manipulate you and find other 488 00:26:36,540 --> 00:26:38,340 sort of insidious ways to control you. 489 00:26:38,340 --> 00:26:40,780 But you'll also meet lots of obsolete programs who were 490 00:26:40,780 --> 00:26:44,740 scheduled for deletion by the system, escaped, and now was 491 00:26:44,740 --> 00:26:47,740 sort of in hiding. And these are, I think, where I 492 00:26:47,740 --> 00:26:51,140 like this arranged spot of the game because their their 493 00:26:51,140 --> 00:26:54,740 programs, who at some point had a purpose to sort of punish and 494 00:26:55,940 --> 00:26:58,250 influence. Of the sleepers. 495 00:26:58,250 --> 00:27:00,330 But also now they're remarkably like you. 496 00:27:00,330 --> 00:27:02,370 They're they're the rejected ones. 497 00:27:02,730 --> 00:27:05,490 They're the people who aren't fitting in the system and some 498 00:27:05,490 --> 00:27:09,290 of them may be a case to have like strong allies if you can 499 00:27:10,090 --> 00:27:13,530 unite with them. So it's often yeah, like playing 500 00:27:13,530 --> 00:27:16,210 and like exploring your relationships with the wider 501 00:27:16,210 --> 00:27:20,510 world. So is, is the bulk of the game 502 00:27:20,510 --> 00:27:24,550 gonna be like within the terminal so you're like in the 503 00:27:24,550 --> 00:27:27,910 simulation? Or is it like a mix between out 504 00:27:27,910 --> 00:27:29,430 of the simulation and in the simulation? 505 00:27:31,070 --> 00:27:35,470 It's a mix. I would say as I envision it, 506 00:27:35,470 --> 00:27:40,390 I'm imagining like a 8525 mix, though I also to be honest, 507 00:27:40,390 --> 00:27:43,710 imagine that is a mix. That's really up to how. 508 00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:47,380 People GM the game, I don't think. 509 00:27:47,660 --> 00:27:51,300 I neither think a book could prescribe how much you'd spend 510 00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:54,700 in each location, and even if it could, I don't necessarily think 511 00:27:54,740 --> 00:27:56,580 I'd want the game to do like because I'd want people to 512 00:27:56,580 --> 00:27:59,980 explore the spaces that are most interesting to them. 513 00:27:59,980 --> 00:28:03,460 I can imagine one group playing this game, whether like, yeah, 514 00:28:03,460 --> 00:28:06,700 we mainly like gloss over and skim through our scenes in the 515 00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:09,020 wake. We don't really bother like 516 00:28:09,020 --> 00:28:10,420 saying stuff. We're just doing that when we're 517 00:28:10,420 --> 00:28:14,140 talking we're like at like 90% terminal 10% that I could 518 00:28:14,140 --> 00:28:17,260 imagine some group but like yeah it's 5050 like some sessions 519 00:28:17,260 --> 00:28:21,940 were entirely in the wake and doing awesome pirate shit and 520 00:28:21,940 --> 00:28:25,740 other sessions were entirely in the term like it's I I my guess 521 00:28:25,740 --> 00:28:29,140 would be it will really depend on on what interests an 522 00:28:29,140 --> 00:28:32,180 individual group. As I run it's probably like I 523 00:28:32,180 --> 00:28:34,340 said 8525. I'm now leaning more towards, 524 00:28:34,340 --> 00:28:36,900 that's probably 75 actually it would be 8515. 525 00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:40,590 I'm. Not the most numerous, but like, 526 00:28:40,670 --> 00:28:43,790 I just remembered because I had no idea that made sense in my 527 00:28:43,790 --> 00:28:44,830 head. So I'll take it. 528 00:28:46,590 --> 00:28:49,230 So then tell me about Liber. I'm gonna say it wrong. 529 00:28:49,230 --> 00:28:50,710 The Libertasha. Libertasha. 530 00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:54,750 Yeah, I would say Libertasha, but I have no idea. 531 00:28:54,990 --> 00:28:56,950 That was, Yeah. Are you wrong? 532 00:28:57,710 --> 00:29:00,000 Yeah. While I was editing the book 533 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,440 recently, I found like at least one straight, well, not while I 534 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,120 was editing. When I was looking through 535 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,120 edits, I'd got back from Alyssa's, the wonderful editor 536 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,720 of the game. I know it's one straight 537 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,520 instance where like when I was writing the game before, I 538 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,480 didn't name for it. It was just called Pyra Island 539 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,080 for ages. And I was like, there's a 540 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,320 leftover Pyra Island, just get rid of that. 541 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,880 But yeah, limitation. The idea is that, you know, in 542 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,200 like centuries gone past, people used to just have to sort of 543 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,600 troll the waves. Die in their sort of like metal 544 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,960 ships. And then a group of pirates like 545 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,360 centuries ago got together, seized this island and that's 546 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,920 essentially now like the sort of home of the unified pirates. 547 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,480 You know, it is sort of an island of people who who didn't 548 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:51,200 fit in, but who are building their own lives with each other. 549 00:29:51,790 --> 00:29:55,710 It doesn't have any like government really, other than 550 00:29:55,710 --> 00:30:00,150 sort of like a sort of informal like voting system around stuff. 551 00:30:00,150 --> 00:30:04,110 Like a pirate crew is assembled by, you know, who can convince 552 00:30:04,110 --> 00:30:09,750 people to be on a ship and like go along with each other in that 553 00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:15,070 sense. And the setting there it's like. 554 00:30:16,790 --> 00:30:18,910 You know, it's to find a lot of places, different pirates and 555 00:30:18,910 --> 00:30:20,630 different ships, so you can get different perspectives, 556 00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:24,110 something. But then I also try to add in 557 00:30:24,110 --> 00:30:28,390 like senses that you get a sense of why this place matters and 558 00:30:28,390 --> 00:30:32,150 why you want to care about it and why it would be, you know, 559 00:30:32,150 --> 00:30:35,910 travesty for the robots to succeed in in destroying this 560 00:30:35,910 --> 00:30:39,950 sort of lost outpost of nonconformity. 561 00:30:41,870 --> 00:30:45,230 And then one of the crashes of the major story arcs really is 562 00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:47,830 actually. I guess this goes back to us, 563 00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:50,710 but like most of the story arcs are terminal based, there like 5 564 00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:53,710 terminal based crashes, there is one which actually focuses much 565 00:30:53,710 --> 00:30:58,350 more on limitation and the sort of tense pirate alliances at the 566 00:30:58,350 --> 00:31:01,670 core of that. And I think that's a really 567 00:31:02,310 --> 00:31:05,910 interesting one and interesting expression of characters and 568 00:31:05,950 --> 00:31:08,550 seeing you're in sort of comrades potentially turn 569 00:31:08,550 --> 00:31:13,470 against you. Yeah. 570 00:31:13,470 --> 00:31:20,580 So I just it's interesting that the kind of like the wake is 571 00:31:20,580 --> 00:31:22,900 both pirate as well as like the simulation. 572 00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:26,580 So like you're in the simulation as pirates and do they just 573 00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:29,340 continue that like out in libertation with this concept of 574 00:31:29,340 --> 00:31:33,060 the pirates or or am I wrong is the is libertation is in the 575 00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:34,620 wake right? It's not in the simulation. 576 00:31:35,180 --> 00:31:38,700 Yeah, Libertation is in the wake and then the simulation. 577 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,920 You know, I often imagined it as like 90s early early naughties, 578 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,520 like action films, but often with a very sort of like 579 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,240 dreamscape logic, you know, it's really interesting. 580 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,720 I think it like the in the first matrix for like early scenes. 581 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,800 It's like, you know, Neo's waking up and you can't tell us 582 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,080 the scene you just watch was a dream or not. 583 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,280 And then that stuff that element like disappears the moment Neo's 584 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,570 out of the. Matrix, because then he plugs 585 00:32:05,570 --> 00:32:06,850 in. It's always very clear where he 586 00:32:06,850 --> 00:32:08,850 is. That makes sense to me, but I 587 00:32:08,850 --> 00:32:14,730 wanted more of that sort of dream, logic, unreality, sort of 588 00:32:14,730 --> 00:32:20,530 blurring at the edges in the the simulation where the aesthetics 589 00:32:20,530 --> 00:32:25,570 of a lot of characters there inside a very sort of, I think 590 00:32:25,570 --> 00:32:30,970 of like, sort of like, you know, queer nightclubs, punk outfits. 591 00:32:34,060 --> 00:32:37,780 Lots of sort of different, sort of like cool fashion. 592 00:32:38,140 --> 00:32:42,900 And I yeah, think of these places as very, the domains 593 00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:46,100 themselves as very different. One is very directly me doing a 594 00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:51,780 sort of riff on scenes, like Wild at Heart. 595 00:32:52,140 --> 00:32:55,660 Another place is entire. Another domain is really 596 00:32:55,660 --> 00:32:58,380 entirely about the fact that I really hate Canary Wharf in 597 00:32:58,380 --> 00:33:01,500 London. I find I really like Soulless. 598 00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:04,620 Place. So I I ended up making an entire 599 00:33:04,620 --> 00:33:07,740 domain of the terminal Canary wolf without saying that 600 00:33:07,740 --> 00:33:13,020 explicitly. While others sort of go of wolf 601 00:33:13,020 --> 00:33:15,860 sort of vibes. One whole like story arc 602 00:33:15,860 --> 00:33:19,540 involves an arc involves a domain where nightmares have 603 00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:23,460 been bleeding out of someone's mind into the world and it kind 604 00:33:23,460 --> 00:33:26,140 of plays that like stuff relates like the dream parade and 605 00:33:26,140 --> 00:33:28,660 paprika. The inspirations are very 606 00:33:28,660 --> 00:33:29,940 different. And then? 607 00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:34,270 What is, as much as I love The Matrix, I do feel like if I was 608 00:33:34,270 --> 00:33:38,470 making a game in Zion, I think Zion is a place that you don't 609 00:33:38,510 --> 00:33:40,230 actually. You get a lot of like 610 00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:43,070 interesting stuff about it and about how maybe characters film 611 00:33:43,070 --> 00:33:44,950 what it represents. But I don't think it's a place 612 00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:48,790 you're the most interested in spending time and narratively. 613 00:33:48,830 --> 00:33:53,510 So I did want something that like, added some an interesting 614 00:33:53,510 --> 00:33:55,190 setting. It was a really big focus here 615 00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:57,030 that, like, if I'm writing the game right. 616 00:33:57,950 --> 00:34:00,710 If someone spends an entire session in limitation, or even 617 00:34:00,710 --> 00:34:05,870 spends a couple that shouldn't be like they didn't have fun, 618 00:34:06,510 --> 00:34:08,870 that should still be really interesting and exciting, even 619 00:34:08,870 --> 00:34:13,230 if they want to spend most of their time narratively in the 620 00:34:13,230 --> 00:34:16,389 terminal. And that also allowed like nice 621 00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:20,350 themes I think with pirates in terms of, you know, people being 622 00:34:21,469 --> 00:34:24,840 outside of. You know, in a lot of fiction 623 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,719 outside of like civilization or society and it's sort of rules, 624 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,760 Yeah, like I said, I really love that it keeps the pirate themes 625 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,679 because if you're if you're like realistically, like if you're 626 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:39,880 able to plug into a system that's very pirated, you're not 627 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,159 just going to like turn the pirate off once you unplug, like 628 00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,199 you're going to continue that, you know, like. 629 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,880 So I I really enjoy that. There's a continuity between 630 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,199 both. It's it's really interesting. 631 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,120 One of the other things that really struck me about the Zine 632 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,480 too is the graphic design as well as the art. 633 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,760 So I definitely want to discuss the artist because my goodness, 634 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:05,120 it is absolutely stunning. Yeah, she's she's amazing. 635 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,920 So the artist for Terminal is Gorman Geist. 636 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,240 Who is? Yeah, just a brilliantly 637 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:15,440 talented artist. She's also a writer and designer 638 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,320 and her own right. She made Bubblegum Wizards 2 639 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,480 Bubblegum Vampires, Nuclear Knights. 640 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,000 I absolutely recommend you you check out her stuff on 641 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,560 Gomengeist dot H dot I/O. And we followed each other on 642 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,640 Tumblr, is how I ended up finding Gomenge. 643 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,120 So I'd like been working on this idea for a bit had like. 644 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,440 Chunks of writing in different places and I was like, I'm I I 645 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,640 should try and get an artist together for this because I make 646 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,760 a lot of games and like do some things all by myself and then 647 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,800 just put them out without much announcement. 648 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,120 But I was like, this feels like it's a piece of work I'm really 649 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:58,120 proud of and maybe I should take more care with I guess that take 650 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,880 more care that maybe is dismissive my work but like. 651 00:36:01,540 --> 00:36:03,100 Because I don't want to go slower and collaborate with 652 00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:04,860 other people on. So I was looking for an artist 653 00:36:04,860 --> 00:36:08,980 and I remember my initial thoughts were I think for the 654 00:36:08,980 --> 00:36:12,300 game I'm telling and the story I'm telling and someone can do 655 00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:14,940 action and someone can do fashion. 656 00:36:15,580 --> 00:36:18,020 And then I initially I was asking a friend and talking 657 00:36:18,020 --> 00:36:20,380 about this know something like wait, I follow someone on Tumblr 658 00:36:20,420 --> 00:36:23,220 who does great action and great fashion. 659 00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:25,660 I've reached out via e-mail and was like, hey. 660 00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:30,110 Tom was getting interested and yeah, she was down. 661 00:36:30,110 --> 00:36:33,270 And all of the art has been amazing. 662 00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:38,270 It's so informed my conception of the game and the characters 663 00:36:38,270 --> 00:36:42,670 and the world. We've previewed a lot of it on 664 00:36:42,670 --> 00:36:47,110 Twitter and Tumblr though. You know, I'm getting, I've got 665 00:36:47,110 --> 00:36:50,750 another new piece yesterday night, which I've not shown 666 00:36:50,750 --> 00:36:55,190 anywhere, anywhere. And yeah, it's really wonderful. 667 00:36:55,190 --> 00:37:00,310 And then? Because she works with like, so 668 00:37:00,310 --> 00:37:04,150 like this one thing I really love that we like, like she went 669 00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:06,190 with Ellie. Almost like there's a color 670 00:37:06,190 --> 00:37:08,750 palette for terminal scenes and there's a color palette for 671 00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:14,350 scenes in the wake. It's a really neat thing. 672 00:37:14,350 --> 00:37:17,470 The coloring is always really beautiful and so when I came to 673 00:37:17,470 --> 00:37:21,470 putting the sample layout together, I was matching those 674 00:37:21,470 --> 00:37:24,390 colors and using some of the sort of binary design from. 675 00:37:25,130 --> 00:37:30,850 From The Matrix, I'm really just trying to make sure I'm serving 676 00:37:31,370 --> 00:37:34,450 Gorman Geist's art as much as possible. 677 00:37:34,450 --> 00:37:38,930 And I'm creating, creating something that it feels like. 678 00:37:38,930 --> 00:37:42,290 Yeah, that it feels like it deserves to sit in and hopefully 679 00:37:42,290 --> 00:37:45,730 creating writing that really supports that. 680 00:37:47,660 --> 00:37:49,620 Yeah. I mean, as you said and going 681 00:37:49,620 --> 00:37:53,060 back through some of the files from the press kit you sent, I 682 00:37:53,060 --> 00:37:56,100 can see that there's like a pretty stark difference in the 683 00:37:56,100 --> 00:37:57,940 color schemes. That's really, really beautiful. 684 00:37:58,220 --> 00:38:01,860 But the way, like obviously you gotta go check out their other 685 00:38:01,860 --> 00:38:04,220 content. But the way that they use color 686 00:38:04,220 --> 00:38:08,460 is absolutely stunning. And I think it really, I don't 687 00:38:08,460 --> 00:38:10,100 know if you could have picked someone better for this because 688 00:38:10,100 --> 00:38:15,120 it really does speak to the, I don't know when I think of the 689 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,160 Matrix, when I think of being plugged into a simulation the 690 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,400 way that there's like these stark colors without like a lot 691 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,960 of gradients and things like that. 692 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:25,400 Like it really speaks to to the style that I think and really 693 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,440 pulls you into terminal and not only the art, but the graphic 694 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,720 design as well. Did you do the graphic design 695 00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:34,360 with like the the there's previews on the website? 696 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,240 I'm not giving anything away or previews on the Kickstarter 697 00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:38,920 page, but with like on the top and bottom of every page and 698 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,080 everything, Is that is that your graphic design or do you have a 699 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,900 designer? No, no. 700 00:38:42,900 --> 00:38:44,860 Yeah, I did the, I did the graphic design. 701 00:38:44,860 --> 00:38:48,020 These are just sort of sample pages to have some on the 702 00:38:48,020 --> 00:38:50,940 website. So I went with like a binary 703 00:38:50,940 --> 00:38:53,140 code thing. I think the binary code is the 704 00:38:53,140 --> 00:38:56,140 first page of the book is what the code actually translates to. 705 00:38:56,340 --> 00:39:00,300 If it's like ran through something, obviously it gets 706 00:39:00,300 --> 00:39:05,020 chopped and interrupted in parts by page numbers and stuff. 707 00:39:05,020 --> 00:39:07,100 And yeah, that was about like, you know, I made sure I was 708 00:39:07,100 --> 00:39:11,920 matching colors to. The book I was using them like 709 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,560 imagining like distinguishing colors like around like Oh yeah, 710 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,200 this is stuff for it's like our basic Prem is, this is where we 711 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,080 record. This is the color for all of the 712 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,800 stuff that's in like the GM section. 713 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,600 This is the color for the things and the sort of like core rules. 714 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,800 And I'm excited when we go through, when we finish off 715 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,520 editing and then like all of these, fine. 716 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,680 I'm really excited to put the whole finished game together. 717 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,400 Because it's definitely going to be the biggest thing that I've 718 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,720 ever done. And yeah, I just wanted to make 719 00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:49,200 sure it like that it I wanted to create a graphic design that 720 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,400 felt like it deserved all that, felt like it justified having 721 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,960 such beautiful art as its center. 722 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,440 Yeah, And I think it does. I mean, again, just that if 723 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,600 these are just sample pages, they look really fantastic. 724 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,180 They. I love we. 725 00:40:05,220 --> 00:40:07,100 We're a big fan of usability here on the show. 726 00:40:07,100 --> 00:40:10,220 We definitely, you know when we rate Rpg's we definitely have a 727 00:40:10,220 --> 00:40:13,780 whole section just based on like navigation of the book and how 728 00:40:13,780 --> 00:40:16,460 well it's usable and color coding sections for different 729 00:40:16,460 --> 00:40:18,980 parts is like such a huge thing that a lot of people don't do. 730 00:40:19,260 --> 00:40:22,180 That is something that personally for me at least, 731 00:40:22,180 --> 00:40:26,260 helps a ton with usability because you can tell when parts 732 00:40:26,260 --> 00:40:27,980 are supposed to be used together and things like that. 733 00:40:27,980 --> 00:40:29,660 So I I love the way that it's used. 734 00:40:29,660 --> 00:40:33,320 I love the the break of the bond area code for the page numbers. 735 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,320 I think it's so clever. I think the graphic design of 736 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,560 the spreads definitely fits with the style of the art and the 737 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:45,860 whole project looks absolutely stunning and and for the project 738 00:40:45,860 --> 00:40:47,780 itself, you are this is a Kickstarter project. 739 00:40:47,780 --> 00:40:50,140 The part the the Kickstarter is already live. 740 00:40:50,140 --> 00:40:52,860 It's been live since I believe the 20th so there's 27 days up 741 00:40:52,860 --> 00:40:55,260 to go in it. So if you will do look up 742 00:40:55,340 --> 00:40:58,020 Terminal on Kickstarter, they're going to go find it. 743 00:40:58,020 --> 00:41:01,740 Your goal is almost funded. There's 27 days to go. 744 00:41:01,740 --> 00:41:04,380 But when people go to the Kickstarter to back this 745 00:41:04,380 --> 00:41:06,940 project, like what can they actually get from the various 746 00:41:06,940 --> 00:41:10,060 tiers of the Kickstarter that you're putting out? 747 00:41:11,460 --> 00:41:17,780 Yeah, so if you go to terminal dot rat wave dot UK you can see 748 00:41:17,780 --> 00:41:19,740 the tiers. There's an initial tier which is 749 00:41:19,740 --> 00:41:24,780 just Chuck me some money, just if you're like I want to support 750 00:41:24,780 --> 00:41:27,300 this maybe Times are hard, you don't have to have times are 751 00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:29,780 hard, Feel free to, you know buy something nice for yourself 752 00:41:30,260 --> 00:41:34,620 rather than me. But then the then the the second 753 00:41:34,620 --> 00:41:38,180 last tier after that is a digital pirate is £15.00 that 754 00:41:38,180 --> 00:41:40,260 will get you a PDF of the game when it's finished. 755 00:41:40,980 --> 00:41:43,660 On the estimation, I put like probably finished around 756 00:41:43,660 --> 00:41:49,220 September, you know maybe prone to life disruptions but you know 757 00:41:49,220 --> 00:41:52,100 the game is written, we're in the process of editing. 758 00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:55,300 We're in the process of getting more more art. 759 00:41:55,740 --> 00:41:59,380 Then at 30 pounds Pirate of the Wake tea you can get the 760 00:41:59,380 --> 00:42:01,740 physical edition. Think I mentioned it's going to 761 00:42:01,740 --> 00:42:07,630 be a four paperback. I think and hoping and well I 762 00:42:07,630 --> 00:42:09,870 say hoping I've seen the art is beautiful. 763 00:42:09,950 --> 00:42:12,670 I think I'm confident in my layout design but hopefully 764 00:42:12,670 --> 00:42:15,630 we're going to have like a really nice beautiful book. 765 00:42:16,270 --> 00:42:20,270 The cover is I love, I love the cover of of this game. 766 00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:26,070 It to me is perfectly sort of conveys everything about the 767 00:42:26,070 --> 00:42:31,430 world at 40. Cover what I called that. 768 00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:34,330 I think it was Navigator. Navigated that, got called. 769 00:42:35,250 --> 00:42:38,410 You can buy that as well as a GM screen, GM screen. 770 00:42:38,410 --> 00:42:40,650 It's not like a game where you're doing much secretive GM 771 00:42:40,650 --> 00:42:42,930 rolling, but it's useful because it will include a map of the 772 00:42:42,930 --> 00:42:48,650 Wake, which I'm in discussions with a person working on the map 773 00:42:48,650 --> 00:42:53,490 at the moment. That should be a very cool 774 00:42:53,490 --> 00:42:57,210 preview recently, and then that will include like short 775 00:42:57,210 --> 00:42:59,970 references on either side, so it's just like a nice fancy. 776 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:06,600 Reference for the GM you can get that for the 40 pound tier and 777 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,400 then a special one of tier. I think it's 100 is there is a 778 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,920 character in the game the startup operation like the sort 779 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,240 of starter mission to kick off the campaign involves freeing 780 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:20,440 arrest the sleeper whose proper name once they leave the the 781 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,920 terminal is going to be Atlanta is you doing a lot of the 782 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,880 Matrix. But it's really interesting. 783 00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:30,190 In the I've essentially written saying, which is like a trans 784 00:43:30,190 --> 00:43:32,710 analogy with a character who is canonically trans, which is 785 00:43:32,710 --> 00:43:34,830 interesting. I played it out. 786 00:43:35,470 --> 00:43:39,190 I played because I've been running a game of Terminal for 787 00:43:39,230 --> 00:43:42,710 some friends played it recently and it was very interesting to 788 00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:46,830 sort of dig into that area of things. 789 00:43:47,110 --> 00:43:50,630 But that character at some point does have like an office name. 790 00:43:51,130 --> 00:43:55,490 They have in the terminal the sort of Thomas Anderson or stuff 791 00:43:55,690 --> 00:43:57,570 in the book. At the moment that is just two 792 00:43:57,570 --> 00:44:01,530 exclamation marks, because if someone gives me £100 they can 793 00:44:01,530 --> 00:44:04,290 be this character's terminal, that name essentially. 794 00:44:05,410 --> 00:44:10,130 So that's a weird one off tier, yeah? 795 00:44:10,530 --> 00:44:14,430 And then? Hopefully if we fund soon, I'll 796 00:44:14,430 --> 00:44:18,350 work on some stretch goals. My sort of priorities would be 797 00:44:18,350 --> 00:44:21,390 like creasing the art budget and I have talked to Summarize about 798 00:44:21,390 --> 00:44:24,790 perhaps doing some guest stuff on that, But that isn't really 799 00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:28,750 all dependent on how the Kickstarter continues to go. 800 00:44:30,350 --> 00:44:32,550 Yeah. And you know, I honestly, I'm 801 00:44:32,590 --> 00:44:35,710 surprised this hasn't funded yet and and it absolutely will. 802 00:44:35,710 --> 00:44:39,530 I'm confident in that because the project is first of all just 803 00:44:39,530 --> 00:44:41,690 gorgeous overall. I mean, Gorman Geist is a 804 00:44:41,890 --> 00:44:44,730 fantastic artist, but like actually reading the content, 805 00:44:44,730 --> 00:44:47,850 reading what's on here and even just the themes of the game in 806 00:44:47,850 --> 00:44:53,170 general and being able to plug in a new cool pirate shit is is 807 00:44:53,250 --> 00:44:54,770 great. Like I'm super excited to get 808 00:44:54,770 --> 00:45:00,250 this and if it you know, for those that are listening and and 809 00:45:00,250 --> 00:45:02,210 you know part of the reason Kayla is on right now is to talk 810 00:45:02,210 --> 00:45:05,730 about this great project and to get people directed towards it. 811 00:45:06,530 --> 00:45:10,570 It's awesome like I said of all of the the press content that 812 00:45:10,570 --> 00:45:13,250 you've sent me everything that I've read from Libertacia 813 00:45:13,250 --> 00:45:14,810 through the core mechanics through everything. 814 00:45:14,930 --> 00:45:18,490 It's just a really, really fun project And and you know as I 815 00:45:18,490 --> 00:45:21,610 said before when we first connect with this and you send 816 00:45:21,610 --> 00:45:23,170 me the press kit, I immediately was like okay. 817 00:45:23,570 --> 00:45:25,530 We have to bring Kayla on. We have to talk about this 818 00:45:25,530 --> 00:45:27,770 project. It's fantastic like we have to 819 00:45:27,770 --> 00:45:30,370 we have to do this. So this is definitely one that I 820 00:45:30,370 --> 00:45:33,490 I highly recommend. Can't wait to have in hand. 821 00:45:36,050 --> 00:45:39,700 What what else would you like to say about Terminal? 822 00:45:39,700 --> 00:45:42,940 I guess I mean this is as I, you know, as I just stated it's a 823 00:45:42,940 --> 00:45:45,020 fantastic project. I'm really excited to get it in 824 00:45:45,020 --> 00:45:47,660 people's hands once this is done. 825 00:45:48,060 --> 00:45:51,140 You know, once this is funded and it's all sent out, is there 826 00:45:51,180 --> 00:45:54,220 any thoughts in your brain about future Terminal content or are 827 00:45:54,220 --> 00:45:57,140 you going to or are you the kind of creator that likes to bounce 828 00:45:57,140 --> 00:46:00,060 from project to project and and continue on or do you think 829 00:46:00,060 --> 00:46:01,740 Terminal is something that you're going to like kind of 830 00:46:01,740 --> 00:46:04,500 stay in and and continue to develop? 831 00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:08,460 That's a good question. I am definitely someone who's 832 00:46:08,460 --> 00:46:13,140 prone to bouncing around a lot, and I do have some other work in 833 00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:16,860 progress is that I would like to do a bit more on one term. 834 00:46:17,830 --> 00:46:22,310 I'm, you know, properly wrapped on On Terminal I've Sank, which 835 00:46:22,310 --> 00:46:24,670 is like a musical game involving tarot. 836 00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:28,070 I have something involving sort of like a space fantasy western 837 00:46:28,070 --> 00:46:31,310 thing I wanted to put together. I'm I'm interested in whether 838 00:46:31,550 --> 00:46:34,070 people would want more sort of terminal content. 839 00:46:34,070 --> 00:46:36,390 I could definitely imagine myself writing. 840 00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:43,030 One off operations, you'd be slotting into your campaign all 841 00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:45,910 sort of even, you know, expansions and further crashes 842 00:46:45,910 --> 00:46:48,830 or stuff. But I do suppose it would depend 843 00:46:48,830 --> 00:46:51,550 on what the sort of initial interest is. 844 00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:56,150 Or maybe, you know, otherwise sort of exploring the scene and 845 00:46:56,150 --> 00:46:57,470 stuff. Or probably. 846 00:46:58,090 --> 00:47:00,650 Yeah, it's like to figure out and I guess it will depend so 847 00:47:00,650 --> 00:47:03,250 much on what the the response is. 848 00:47:03,610 --> 00:47:06,130 I do wonder whether the game is entirely self-contained on its 849 00:47:06,210 --> 00:47:07,890 own. I think it definitely is, but 850 00:47:07,890 --> 00:47:11,930 there probably is also room for other stuff if that ended up 851 00:47:12,130 --> 00:47:15,090 interesting people. Gotcha. 852 00:47:15,610 --> 00:47:19,220 Yeah, you know I I guess like you said we'll see. 853 00:47:19,220 --> 00:47:21,300 But I'm. I'm very excited to get this. 854 00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:25,020 I can only imagine are you gonna is this going to be written like 855 00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:27,820 licensing is a thing in the discourse and it has been for a 856 00:47:27,820 --> 00:47:29,180 little while. Are people going to be able to 857 00:47:29,180 --> 00:47:31,460 write content for Terminal if they if they choose to? 858 00:47:32,580 --> 00:47:37,180 Yeah, absolutely. I will probably include saying 859 00:47:37,180 --> 00:47:41,420 on the credits, but I'd be very happy for people to write their 860 00:47:41,420 --> 00:47:44,620 own sort of crashes or even small operations or stuff if 861 00:47:44,620 --> 00:47:48,900 they. If they felt inspired by it I'm 862 00:47:48,900 --> 00:47:52,540 not given much like pen to paper for, but yeah, they would 863 00:47:52,540 --> 00:47:55,420 definitely do like an open like Creative Commons powered 864 00:47:55,420 --> 00:47:58,340 license. Like I said, it's based on 865 00:47:58,420 --> 00:48:04,460 inevitable by some of the sort of core rules are already, you 866 00:48:04,460 --> 00:48:07,980 know, going to have their own license I think when that game 867 00:48:07,980 --> 00:48:11,380 releases And then in terms of where, yeah, some kind of thing 868 00:48:11,380 --> 00:48:12,700 where I'll just support any sort of. 869 00:48:13,260 --> 00:48:16,380 Third party concept, the terminal that people want to do 870 00:48:16,380 --> 00:48:20,780 because you know the most exciting thing is if people are 871 00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:24,020 playing and enjoying the game and wanting to carve out their 872 00:48:24,020 --> 00:48:27,460 own space in that in that world. Like, you know, that's a great, 873 00:48:28,660 --> 00:48:32,260 a great honor. And and like you said, I mean 874 00:48:32,260 --> 00:48:38,220 you, you have written a variety of different games, different 875 00:48:38,220 --> 00:48:41,290 settings, different mechanics, different everything. 876 00:48:41,290 --> 00:48:44,690 Where can people find all of these this variety of things 877 00:48:44,690 --> 00:48:46,490 that that you've already put out? 878 00:48:46,490 --> 00:48:48,130 Like where can people find the content that you've already 879 00:48:48,130 --> 00:48:51,290 made? Yeah, so I do have like a 880 00:48:51,290 --> 00:48:56,730 central website at ratwave.uk which is just like a big sort of 881 00:48:57,850 --> 00:49:00,770 directory for all of my different stuff on H It's 882 00:49:00,770 --> 00:49:06,530 ratwave gamehouse dot H dot io. Every game I have is available. 883 00:49:07,460 --> 00:49:10,180 I do have some things like available in print on demand, 884 00:49:10,180 --> 00:49:14,700 and then I have some things that eventually, not yet, but 885 00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:18,340 eventually are going to be available through the sole 886 00:49:18,340 --> 00:49:22,380 Muppet web store. And I think some things are 887 00:49:22,380 --> 00:49:27,820 going to IPR in America. And so yeah, if you are coming 888 00:49:27,820 --> 00:49:29,460 to Jencon, actually that's a good thing. 889 00:49:29,460 --> 00:49:30,820 I should say. There'll be copies of 890 00:49:30,820 --> 00:49:33,980 Transgender Deathmatch Legend available on the Indie Press 891 00:49:33,980 --> 00:49:37,370 Revolution store. As long as I'll be there and you 892 00:49:37,370 --> 00:49:41,850 can see me and I think I am running some of my games for 893 00:49:41,850 --> 00:49:44,970 people I know I am. I just don't know when, but I'm 894 00:49:44,970 --> 00:49:48,170 running both Fear the Taste of Blood and 30 Foes. 895 00:49:48,490 --> 00:49:51,970 When is it available Information I just haven't checked and 896 00:49:51,970 --> 00:49:55,570 remembered. But yeah, Route wave dot UK is 897 00:49:55,570 --> 00:49:58,890 the best directory for everything and you can find all 898 00:49:58,890 --> 00:50:03,080 my work on there which is. Yeah, a little like, damn 899 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,160 relevant Watch. Gotcha. 900 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,520 Yeah. And this is Listen, Kayla, super 901 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,440 appreciate you being here again. Kayla DICE, an award-winning 902 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,960 fantastic creator with this fantastic project out right now. 903 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,400 Terminal, the digital pirate action RPG again. 904 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,550 Like I said, I'm super excited for this project. 905 00:50:21,550 --> 00:50:23,190 I can't wait to actually get it in hand. 906 00:50:23,310 --> 00:50:26,270 No doubt that it's gonna fund. If you guys listening right now 907 00:50:26,270 --> 00:50:29,710 at all, go to Kickstarter, go to Terminal. 908 00:50:29,830 --> 00:50:32,670 What was the short URL for it again? 909 00:50:33,590 --> 00:50:37,950 The terminal is just terminal.ratwave.uk. 910 00:50:38,530 --> 00:50:39,810 Did that, and I'm really glad it Dicks. 911 00:50:39,810 --> 00:50:42,130 It makes it very easy for me to say in conversation. 912 00:50:42,570 --> 00:50:45,050 It's great. Adam Vass does it for like every 913 00:50:45,050 --> 00:50:46,530 game. And it's so much easier than 914 00:50:46,530 --> 00:50:49,210 being like go to kickstarter.com/this/that. 915 00:50:49,210 --> 00:50:51,450 It's a really great choice and I'm glad I did it. 916 00:50:51,450 --> 00:50:54,210 So if you're listening, click that link, Go check that out. 917 00:50:54,210 --> 00:50:56,530 Kayla, thank you so much for being here, is fantastic talking 918 00:50:56,530 --> 00:50:59,050 with you and again, can't wait for this project to come out. 919 00:50:59,050 --> 00:51:01,610 So very much appreciate. It thank you having me on. 920 00:51:01,610 --> 00:51:03,770 I had a lovely time. Thank you for. 921 00:51:04,250 --> 00:51:06,620 Thank you for sharing the space. All right. 922 00:51:06,780 --> 00:51:08,660 So that's going to be our show for today. 923 00:51:08,660 --> 00:51:10,260 We don't really have anything planned after. 924 00:51:10,260 --> 00:51:13,980 So again, go back to this project, it's fantastic and we 925 00:51:13,980 --> 00:51:18,180 will see you all next time. So bye everybody.