1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,760 Welcome to the Gamer Dad podcast, where we talk about all 2 00:00:02,760 --> 00:00:05,120 things Magic the Gathering and gaming. 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,520 We strive to make things fun, fit into our busy lives, 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,320 families, keep things casual, and show you how you can too. 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:16,960 I am Gamer Dad Bob, a 30 year Magic the Gathering veteran who 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,720 has played formats from legacy to standard to Commander. 7 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:22,840 Tonight we're going to talk about Magic, and I'm going to 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,280 tell you I really love the bracket system. 9 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,600 Yeah, I really do, even though it needs some work. 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,200 We'll, we'll, we'll hash that out tonight. 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,840 I'm an IT manager, lover of sports, role-playing games. 12 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,000 Claire Obscure, 30 Expedition 33 is game of the year, maybe game 13 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,560 of the last 10 years. I'm a father of a 5 year old who 14 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,160 is fuelled by cheese. This kid has been eating pizzas 15 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:47,320 every night for dinner. It's. 16 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,600 I don't. Know it never gets better and 17 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,760 I'm Jesse Hoagy. I'm also a 30 year Magic 18 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,960 Gathering veteran. I'm also a gamer. 19 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,080 I'm a two time girl dad and I dislike the bracket system so 20 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,400 this should be fun. Yeah, this is this is going to 21 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,440 be interesting because Jesse's going to be like, arguing 22 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,440 against my points, which is always makes for good, good 23 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:06,160 radio. Right. 24 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,960 Tonight, we're going to address the elephant in the room. 25 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:13,080 Yes, You, you behind the tree. I can see you, dude, you suck at 26 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,520 hiding, trying to ambush us. Oh, man, That that is an MTG 27 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,040 deep cut, by the way. I I hope you guys get that. 28 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,320 Jesse. You know what card that is? 29 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,360 I do not. It's elephant ambush. 30 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,640 I didn't you? I feel like we've played that or 31 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,280 something. I think we got it in the mystery 32 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,640 booster or the Dominaria. It's like the art is the 33 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,120 elephant hiding behind like the skinny tree. 34 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,000 Listen, so we've had some time to digest these new commander 35 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,560 brackets for for like the last month and and it's been a good 36 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,400 start and it's been a little bumpy still. 37 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,240 We, we have some concrete things and and we can start having that 38 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,000 rule 0 discussion that we we know and love. 39 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,400 We know what to expect from a bracket one and two deck. 40 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,880 We we know what bracket 4 is. I just. 41 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,480 Get bracket 3 Bob. We we we know what bracket 5 is. 42 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,720 Bracket 5 is CEDH. Three bracket 3. 43 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,120 Right, three dealer. We're talking about bracket 3, 44 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,320 right? Listen, Bracket 3 is a thing. 45 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,240 It's not perfect, but tonight we're here to talk about bracket 46 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,760 3 and what can be done to improve upon this still in beta. 47 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,720 I think this is an important distinction too, is that the 48 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,840 bracket system is still in beta. So and also thanks for humoring 49 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,160 us with our bit here. You know, we we had to start out 50 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:31,400 something interesting. So to me, my deck is A7 and my 51 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,240 deck is a three sounds strikingly similar this day and 52 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:36,800 age. So we're going to go over some 53 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,680 reasons why they sound the same, what we do to improve upon and 54 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,680 what we believe is the like the biggest bracket. 55 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,840 So I think bracket 3 is gigantic as far as the range of how you 56 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,440 can build it and everything between min maxing, between game 57 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,400 changers, mana bases, infinite combos, which are allowed in 58 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,640 this bracket by the way, you know. 59 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:01,600 So we're going to give some constructive criticism, we're 60 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,160 going to give some suggestions. Jesse's going to be distracted 61 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:06,480 by his dog all night. Think. 62 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:07,960 She's got something I can't tell. 63 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,200 It's going to be a good one and listen, it's sponsored by you 64 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,120 guys here, right? If if you're on our Patreon, 65 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,160 thank you. It's it's the gamer dads to look 66 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,280 us up. Want to want to help us continue 67 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,280 making more fun content? This is one way to ensure we're 68 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,080 making these podcasts twice a month. 69 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,680 Want to hear more video game content? 70 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,360 Want to see the live video replays? 71 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,440 The only place to get them is on the Gamer Dads Patreon. 72 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,600 Check it out. It's a very small amount of 73 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,240 money per month to subscribe for some exclusive content like the 74 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,600 live video replays. So, Jesse, do mana bases matter 75 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,000 in these brackets? I think I think mana bases 76 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,840 matter more than game changers do. 77 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,880 I think mana bases are the game changers. 78 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,960 They are the actual true game changers of the format, Like 79 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,520 single cards. No, the mana bases are it 80 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,400 because like if you have someone who has all of their stuff 81 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:05,000 coming out turn one turn 2, turn 3 and you're stuck on either tap 82 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,840 lands or single basic lands or whatever, they're going to have 83 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,680 so much more of an advantage than you are. 84 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,640 Because I mean, say you have, I don't know, like a come into 85 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,079 play tapped land. You pass the turn. 86 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,079 Someone has a non coming to play like an actual dual land, like a 87 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:24,080 OG dual land and then they tap that and they cast soaring and 88 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,120 then they cast arcane Signet. How far behind are you? 89 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,320 You're you're insanely behind now. 90 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,920 You mean it's not even close? That we people say, oh, well, 91 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,280 you if you could, you could do that with a basic land too, but 92 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,960 you can do it with a basic land. But if you have something that 93 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,080 comes into play untapped and you have access to your mana that 94 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,280 much quicker, you have access to casting your spells that much 95 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:44,920 quicker and you're that much more ahead. 96 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,720 Because if you if you're that far ahead and you have the mana 97 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,400 untapped ready to go, you can counter stuff, you can remove 98 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,640 stuff, you can do so much more than the person who's just 99 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,600 coming into place apps and there's so now that's that's 100 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,000 what makes the pre cons. So I don't say so bad, but so 101 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,040 much worse. And that's whenever you 102 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,720 customize, recount or upgrade it. 103 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,520 You're definitely starting with the mana base for sure. 104 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:06,400 The. First thing you touch. 105 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,200 The tap lands are such a tempo loss and and you know, to your 106 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,280 point, you can run them in any bracket and and they build the 107 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:17,440 pre cons. Well, obviously, because the 108 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,840 value they're not going to be printing shocks in these pre 109 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:22,480 cons, They're not going to be printing dual lands. 110 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,320 They're barely printing pain lands in these pre cons so that 111 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,840 the lands that come in untapped, the tap for multiple colors. 112 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:32,120 So if I'm running dual lands in my bracket, three, I'm not the 113 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,600 same as someone running tap lands snarls multiple typings 114 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,480 for fetches is a big deal. You're not in the same league 115 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:40,960 when you're when you're doing that. 116 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,240 So mana bases are extraordinarily important, and 117 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,160 they do matter, and they're not addressed whatsoever in the 118 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,240 bracket system from 1:00 to 5:00. 119 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,680 No, nobody cares outside of a couple game changers. 120 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,160 That what we'll get into that right choice of fetches also 121 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,440 matters for tempo. A fabled passage is not the same 122 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,120 as an Arid Mesa. No, it's just not. 123 00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:08,720 You know there there's no restriction in any bracket. 124 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,240 So if we're going to base the power of bracket one and two on 125 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,960 pre cons, we need to consider how mana bases are constructed 126 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,240 as well. And maybe we need to think about 127 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,320 restricting what's in a bracket. Three mana base even. 128 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,000 Maybe because like I'm trying to think of what you could do with 129 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,240 mana bases that could like would you put mana like certain cards 130 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,040 in the game changer list? I mean I, I think the game 131 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,280 channel list should go away, but I mean bracket, if you keep the 132 00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:36,360 bracket list in the way it is, which I don't think you should, 133 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:42,280 but then come into play tapped lands are really 1-2 and three. 134 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,680 Anything that's untapped like AOG dual or whatever or shock 135 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,800 automatically should make your your deck a bracket for. 136 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,200 And we're, we're specifically talking about dual lands, right? 137 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,600 We, I mean basics. You, you just said basics are 138 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,640 basics. And a good basics, a good deck 139 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,960 builder is going to run enough basics because by the way, you 140 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,040 should be running land destruction at worst. 141 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,560 Run Demolition Field please, Because there are too many 142 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,240 people that run away with games because their Deus Cradle went 143 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,400 off, because their, say, Sarah Sanctum went off, because their 144 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,760 Cabal coffers went off. You know that there's plenty of 145 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,640 lands that that deserve to be blown up, and that's a reason to 146 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,440 run them. Yeah, because if if you don't, 147 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,240 then like anybody who plays Arena has, if they've never run 148 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,360 basics and you like you said you get demo field or whatever basic 149 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:30,240 check, you get nothing. Greedy mana bases can be 150 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,960 punished. I've seen a lot of discourse on 151 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,640 whether they should or should not be punished. 152 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,000 You know, with cards like back to basics or ruination, things 153 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,280 like that that only punish for non basics help. 154 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:47,400 Look at blood moon. I mean and and and that falls 155 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,000 under mass land denial. It's weird so. 156 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,120 Like land denial. Like I have a love hate 157 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,480 relationship. Mostly hate with that type of 158 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,440 thing 'cause like, it stops you from playing your game, but at 159 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,880 the same time, if you don't have basics and you don't have 160 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,120 answers to someone removing one of your things, then that's kind 161 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,400 of your own fault, right? And then if you look at the 162 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,800 blood moon, if you don't have enchantment removal, that's your 163 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:10,840 fault. You know, and we continue to 164 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,640 talk more and more in our pot alone about the importance of 165 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,960 just interaction and whether that's artifact removal, 166 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,560 enchantment removal, land destruction of some kind, 167 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,120 sweepers, creature removal. That kind of interaction is 168 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,680 important because someone can run away with a game or lock 169 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,640 someone out entirely. Good example a Wednesday night, 170 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:36,960 you know, I played a ground seal turn 2 against a graveyard deck 171 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:43,120 with no enchantment removal and it it, it just, it didn't go 172 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,400 well. You know, I I shut that deck 173 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,760 down and drew 2 cards off of it because it can trips when it 174 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:54,280 draws and I had sif this out. So like just a simple 2 drop 175 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,480 shut down an entire strategy. So that's why interactions 176 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,160 really important there. But you know, with the mana 177 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,240 bases, I think we need to talk about some kind of building 178 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,760 restrictions up through bracket 3 on mana bases if we're aiming 179 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,320 to slow the brackets down to make them more casual. 180 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,960 In particular, bracket 3, because it's so wide, you know, 181 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,720 someone with an optimized mana base in bracket three, your 182 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:24,880 haves and have nots, if you will, can really, you know, go 183 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:29,640 crazy as opposed to someone who just simply doesn't spend the 184 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,080 money on the duels, hasn't proxied dual lands, hasn't 185 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:36,840 considered that in their build. Because I mean, a lot of people 186 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,960 when they brew decks, they look at them and it's like, this is 187 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,680 what I have, this is what's behind me for my deck brewing. 188 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:47,760 I'm not necessarily thinking outside of the box, what do we 189 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,800 have and everything else. So, you know, we got to start 190 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,840 thinking about mana bases in bracket three, bracket four 191 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,960 first. Let it go The first thing I do 192 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,120 whenever I I like. So I want to build this 193 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,160 commander deck. The first thing it does, 194 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,760 obviously I select the command that I want to build and then I 195 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,560 do the mana. Do you really This is the actual 196 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:08,640 this I know this is the mana I want like these are the dual 197 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,400 lands and these are this is like the non basics that I want 100% 198 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,320 like I pick the most optimal colors for whatever commander I 199 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:23,040 have Yep, and then I pick the utility lands like your roads 200 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,600 passages, your Kazakh Wolfron, your. 201 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,280 Reliquary Towers. Reliquary. 202 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:28,800 Towers. Yep, those type of thing. 203 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,800 And then the rest of the deck comes together after the mana 204 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,680 base is started. Obviously I'm not going to have 205 00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:36,880 the mana base done until the rest of the deck is done, so 206 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,080 yeah. You got to know how many color 207 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,040 pips and everything else you need to start. 208 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,760 With these lands are always going to go in a commander deck 209 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,080 with these colors and then I proxy them because I'm not going 210 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,480 to pay a thousand $2000 for dual land. 211 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:51,920 But I also don't let that hold me back. 212 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,400 Some people do let that hold them back. 213 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:54,640 Right. And that's that's what I'm 214 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:55,880 saying like. And they suffer. 215 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,640 If I'm building from stuff only behind me, I'm going to struggle 216 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:01,720 here. You know, I discovered that I 217 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,520 have check lands from like sets that I forgot that I had. 218 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,520 So it's very interesting there. Yeah, I'm I'm taking I took 219 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,960 apart I think 6 decks tonight because I'm taking all my pre 220 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,640 cons apart. I have tons of lands now, but 221 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,520 they're all coming to play tap lands, like not none of them are 222 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,640 good ones and they that's all the pre cons are. 223 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,720 You know, a lot of people get started with so they don't even 224 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,520 I mean, I'm I'm sure people will know that there's better lands 225 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,720 out there, right? But either they don't have the 226 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,280 money to it or they don't have the time to like look into it. 227 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,760 And then when they run into someone at their local game 228 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,360 store or or whatever and they see what is that? 229 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:44,880 How much is that going to cost me? 230 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,480 Right? It feels bad, just like any 231 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,600 other game changer that you see. It's going to feel bad. 232 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,200 It, it can, it can. And we'll definitely talk a lot 233 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,280 about the game changers because, you know, realistically, Jesse 234 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,640 and I could probably have a whole podcast analyzing every 235 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,960 single game changer. There's like 61 of them now or 236 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,320 something like that. And, and, and by the way, my 237 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,360 argument is that there should be more that are called out as 238 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,120 that, at which point it's like, well, are, are there any game 239 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,680 changers at all? Which we will touch on tonight, 240 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,800 you know, but but they can't print good mana bases in the 241 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,840 commander decks because it's the equivalent of it's the 242 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,720 equivalent of printing money. But additionally, I I mean 243 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,000 they're going to raise the price up and nobody's going to buy 244 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,360 their commander pre cons. They're just they're just not. 245 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,640 Although people are buying the Final Fantasy once, no matter 246 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:34,120 what the price is, That's a. Different. 247 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:35,800 And that's all a choice by Wizards. 248 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,240 They could choose to print better lands and they could 249 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,640 choose to keep the price low. Yeah, but it doesn't make them 250 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:42,920 money. It's all about money. 251 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,360 It all comes down to the money. Because now you do have game 252 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,760 changers in some of these pre cons yes non land ones I mean. 253 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,560 Yes. So. 254 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,960 Can you imagine gay is cradle in your latest pre con? 255 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,080 God, have at it. I mean, I took apart that that 256 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:57,680 you'd respect today and the burgeoning was in there. 257 00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:00,360 That's a $40 card. Burgeoning's great. 258 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,880 So there are good cards in there, they just choose not to 259 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:05,480 print them. Just like if you watch the 260 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,600 professor's when he writes cigarette layers or writes these 261 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,240 commander decks. I guarantee if you go look in 262 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,680 the past and write them all and kind of put them on a graph, 263 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:16,360 it's all going down. Sure sure. 264 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,760 I I mean if you look at some of the older decks I think seaborne 265 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,760 muse made its way into some of the pre cons as well. 266 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,280 It was in I think I want to say it was in the Tarkare 267 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,560 Dragonstorm 1. I feel like it was just recently 268 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:35,000 thrown in a commander deck. So it's a deliberate choice by 269 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,760 by Wizards and by Wizards, I mean by Hasbro really to not 270 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,640 print these high higher value lands because they don't want to 271 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,200 have the price go down. And the other thing that that 272 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,480 probably as far as mana base and building, that's kind of a 273 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,480 hidden mana base building thing to talk about is, is your your 274 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,120 mana positive artifacts. And I'm, I'm looking at you soul 275 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,800 ring. You're you're still a problem. 276 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:02,120 A glaring like if they they have other cards in these pre cons 277 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,320 that are game changers so why not put soul ring in there? 278 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:06,000 It's not. Why not? 279 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,480 Call Soul Ring a game changer. Like the price won't be 280 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,000 affected. And additionally, the way that 281 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,680 they're going with these, they don't want to do that because 282 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:17,200 their argument is that all pre cons are bracket too. 283 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,800 That's right. Some of them have game changers 284 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,120 in them. So, so make that make sense. 285 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,440 Look, this is, this is still very much a draft. 286 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,080 And I, I think I would be extraordinarily surprised if the 287 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:31,120 commander Rules Committee is not self aware that they're saying 288 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,240 that pre cons are bracket 2 and they're printing game changers 289 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,960 and they just, they, they can't be that tone deaf. 290 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,840 They're not. They probably have to work 291 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,360 around that. And additionally, we talked 292 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,760 about this what in September, They're, they're unfortunately 293 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,360 under wizard's thumb now. Which is under Hasbro's thumb. 294 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,440 Yeah, so they, they I. Still say if if Wizards was 295 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,120 separate, a separate entity and not owned by Hasbro so much, 296 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,840 this wouldn't happen. You got to wonder, you really 297 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,680 do. I mean, all these corporations, 298 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,600 no matter how big or how small, they still, their aim is still 299 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,440 to make money, to be more profitable every year. 300 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,800 You know, even the, the company that I work for, it's only 500 301 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,400 people, but their, their goal every year is to be more 302 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,320 profitable. And we're a not-for-profit, but 303 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,560 we still have to take more money in every year. 304 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,680 Overhead is more expensive, salaries are more expensive, 305 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,280 cost of living is more expensive. 306 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,480 So I don't know that's that's a weird spot. 307 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,440 Another thing that I have a problem with in bracket 3 is is 308 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:35,240 how much min maxing is available to bracket 3 decks and what do I 309 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,920 mean by that? Well, I could build a bracket 310 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,240 three deck with no game changers and it's still very much a 311 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,560 bracket three deck because of other factors that are required 312 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,760 here. So let's let me pull this up 313 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,240 here. I I have the graphic. 314 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:53,840 So another factor that makes bracket three bracket 3 is that 315 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,040 it's allowed to have late Game 2 card infinite combos. 316 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,720 OK, I don't have to have any game changers for that 317 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,160 necessarily. And also there is no cap on 318 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:07,800 tutors in bracket 3. So I could min Max and be like 319 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,560 well, I'm running, you know, 10 tutors and hit my late game 320 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,560 infinite convo consistently, but it's only a bracket three guys. 321 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,360 Don't worry about it. There's no game changers in this 322 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,160 deck or I'm only running my three-game changers in this deck 323 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,760 that I can tutor for consistently without any 324 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,200 hesitation and not worry about it whatsoever. 325 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,240 I just don't like it. I I don't like that at all. 326 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,840 I think tutors should be limited in bracket three. 327 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:38,080 I think going even crazier here I think after some contemplation 328 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,560 conversation this week, my hot take is bracket 3 is no place 329 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,480 for infinite combos. No or tutors in my opinion. 330 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:51,600 You know, we, we, this pod gamer gamer dad pod we, we stress the 331 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,760 importance of your deck building and how it's OK to have powerful 332 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,600 cards in your decks. In particular, Bracket 3 is a 333 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,920 really fun place to do that if it's one of the 99. 334 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,200 That variance is what makes things interesting and exciting. 335 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,359 Again, for the love of God, play removal. 336 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,280 But like that variance, it's what makes things exciting. 337 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,480 When I draw the nuts, it happened naturally, not because 338 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,480 I I willed it with all of these tutors that I have in my deck, 339 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,640 because for every tutor that's in your deck, it's essentially 340 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,800 another copy of your game-winning strategy for every 341 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:31,120 creature tutor, worldly tutor, Sylvan tutor, it's a second and 342 00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:34,240 third crater hoof behemoth for all of my token strategy, you 343 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,920 know, and it just UPS the odds of drawing it at that point as 344 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,760 opposed to what, 1 of 99? You know, a powerful deck is 345 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,560 definitely going to remain powerful if you're min maxing 346 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,560 it. And then when you're in a rule 0 347 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,840 conversation, you're like, I don't know, I took out a game 348 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,040 changer. It's got a late game comp 2 card 349 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,080 combo, but it's, it's, it's, you know, it's a 3. 350 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,120 Is it really? No, that's not. 351 00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:58,880 That's not a three. So that's not a three at all. 352 00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:03,400 Jesse, you kind of segwayed really nicely into our next 353 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,400 topic here is is in you said it actually any amount of tutors 354 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,960 feels kind of off in bracket 3. Yeah, because it eliminates the 355 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,760 variance of the one of 99 and that is reserved for higher 356 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,120 powered decks that are not bracket 3. 357 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,000 It's not a social deck. Bracket 3 to me is a really fun 358 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,840 space that's possible for people to build stronger strategies to 359 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,880 experiment with interesting strategies, combos, combinations 360 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:36,680 of creatures, enchantments, all kinds of fun stuff without the 361 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,760 infinite kill kind of thing. It makes the board state 362 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,120 interesting. It makes people think about 363 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:45,640 using what little interaction players are packing these days 364 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,960 that, you know, make them think about and choose what's 365 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,320 important to them. You know, I had to decide 366 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,400 between like an ocelot pride, a souls attendant or something 367 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,080 and, and some other nonsense in a board state. 368 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,120 And I was like, the cat's got to go, but holy crap, I'd like to 369 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:04,600 blow up everything, you know, And, and I wasn't tutoring for a 370 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,280 sweeper. I wasn't tutoring for a 371 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,440 farewell. I had to work with what I had 372 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,240 and, and it made things interesting and it, and it 373 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:16,000 slowed down the, the deck that was doing its thing and we were 374 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,160 successful there. And that deck was not running 375 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,000 tutors. It popped off naturally. 376 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,800 It's pretty. It's pretty fun to see that. 377 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,840 See in bracket three, if you shuffle up and play 3 different 378 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,040 games it should be 3 different games. 379 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,880 It shouldn't be the same thing every time because you have 380 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,960 tutors to do the same thing. And if you again if you have a 381 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,920 natural thing like this. Wasn't commander, but in our 382 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,480 sealed last week I naturally got Sylvan Library every single 383 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,880 game. Yep, I naturally removed it one 384 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:51,000 game and I won that game. So you should be able to have 385 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,520 three different games when you play through different times, 386 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,640 not having to Oh well, he's playing this deck, so this is 387 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,680 going to happen on this turn because the computer for it. 388 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,960 Yep. Yeah, and in bracket three, you 389 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,840 know, deck should not be consistently winning by turn 5 390 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,480 or 6. I'm sorry, that's just not it. 391 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,160 It doesn't jive for me, you know? 392 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,400 So that's. How my? 393 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,720 Miriam deck. My Miriam deck is a category. 394 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,280 It's a hurricane. It's a category. 395 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,800 It's a strong three to a four because it routinely wins 396 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,600 quickly, but not always the same way. 397 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,080 Right. But it's just everything 398 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,320 together makes it that way. I don't think there might even 399 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,680 be a game changer in that. I don't know off the top of my 400 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,040 head. It's your deck now, but to that 401 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,040 point again, I mean bracket 3 doesn't need game changers 402 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,720 necessarily at all to be strong. No, I'm looking because now I'm 403 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,320 curious. I feel like there isn't. 404 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,920 I'll be wrong, I guarantee I'll be wrong, but I feel like there 405 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,000 isn't. OK, so back to the infinite 406 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,840 combos, and we talked about this a little. 407 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,560 Bit no, I was wrong. There's one second craft. 408 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:50,640 That's it. Well. 409 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:52,880 That's it. It. 410 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,640 Does have a worldly tutor? Worldly tutor doesn't tutor for 411 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,080 Cyclonic rift. Nope. 412 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,360 Nope. But how many times have you seen 413 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,280 me cast Worldly Tutor? I don't think you've hit it. 414 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,040 I haven't. How many times is it going to be 415 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,560 cast rift once? Once and it wasn't overloaded. 416 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,560 Nope, and no other game changers in that deck. 417 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,040 I don't think Bracket 3 is a place for infinite combos. 418 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,360 I'm I'm going to, I'm going to climb up on that hill and die on 419 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:18,600 it at this point. Based on experience, based on 420 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,880 conversation, based on holy crap, the way that we lost on 421 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,760 Wednesday night to to a carrot or deck that and and and here's 422 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,600 the crazy thing, Jesse, you didn't witness this again 423 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,160 because you were really unwell. Matt and our pod ended up 424 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,600 naturally drawing a viscera sear in a protein Hulk and he ramped 425 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,440 into the Hulk by turn 4. What? 426 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,880 Are you going to do about that? And then he didn't put her for 427 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,040 it. No. 428 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:46,320 It just. Happens. 429 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,800 And then he sacrificed it, got what he needed for his combo, 430 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:57,920 had a tutor to finish the combo. Andy ended up dropping an even 431 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:02,000 mind sensor so Matt could only search the top 4 cards of his 432 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,840 library and he hit the last combo piece that he needed off 433 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,000 the top. See that like? 434 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,880 That there was a tutor involved, that's cool, but it's also 435 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,400 frustrating as hell. Yeah, because there was a tutor 436 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,000 involved. Like take the tutor out of the 437 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:16,920 picture. What would have happened? 438 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,160 He. He would have been, he would 439 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,360 have been on a different strategy. 440 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,200 He definitely would have been on a different strategy. 441 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,400 And we know Carridor has a lot of different lines of play and 442 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,400 strategies that that that that deck can go the long game or it 443 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,320 can win out of nowhere. I think that's one of the 444 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,000 interesting things about that deck. 445 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,320 It's it's one of my own pet decks because I helped build it. 446 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,840 You know, does it need the infinite combo Strat? 447 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,600 Probably not. That might be better used in 448 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,600 another way if if bracket three were to change and it would 449 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,360 still be an interesting and fun game. 450 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,760 I mean, imagine if he did just get the protein Hulk and got 451 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:53,120 just pure value out of it, You know, instead of combo pieces. 452 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:56,320 But nobody plays protein Hulk to not get combo pieces. 453 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,400 That's that's the thing. And that's another conversation 454 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,640 about a card that probably needs to get back in the box and be 455 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,720 banned, right? I don't I don't see a place for 456 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,600 Protein Hulk because it never ends well. 457 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,200 No, I don't think it's ever end well since I've been playing and 458 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,160 since I played against it. I played in my Marin deck and it 459 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,400 gets combo pieces. It's the same thing. 460 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,240 Yes, you can stop that combo with interaction. 461 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,960 Nobody had it at the time. It was turn 5:00 and 6:00. 462 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,840 We were all tapped out because we were trying to, you know, get 463 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,200 into the down board. Step three of the game. 464 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,360 Yeah, yeah, there was some major luck and variance there, 465 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,840 obviously, and that's important to acknowledge. 466 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,040 But bracket three shouldn't end on turn 6. 467 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,680 It felt bad for everyone. Now, in the same breath, we're 468 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,360 like, all right, scoop up, play another game. 469 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,800 Yeah. I mean, it was, it wasn't even 470 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,800 9:30. We started at 8:30. 471 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,360 So, you know, that was that was nice. 472 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,440 The second game went long. It was fun. 473 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,880 It ended in a funny way because Matt goofed up. 474 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,760 We all kind of just scooped up after he did his thing because 475 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,160 it's like, oh, you just, Bob just wins because you goofed up. 476 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,000 Yeah. OK, cool. 477 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,440 That was fun. Have a good night. 478 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,640 Yeah, it was. It was pretty funny. 479 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,600 But games like that happen. Dex can't pop off in bracket 480 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,880 three naturally. That's why there's variance. 481 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,600 That's why there's luck. It exists. 482 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,800 Do we need to help things along with an infinite combo? 483 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,880 I'm not feeling it anymore. I'm just not all right. 484 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,040 So we're reaching a midway point at least as we put in our notes 485 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,920 and and Jesse and I want to try a new thing. 486 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,480 We're going to try Guess the Card and it's going to be a game 487 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,720 of 20 questions, except it's going to be 10 questions. 488 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,280 I'll say 10. I think it's 10. 489 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,200 Jesse, I'm going to go first with your card. 490 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,880 So I have your card. It's on my screen right now. 491 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,680 You have 10 questions to narrow it down and I'll give you the 492 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,800 11th for the actual guess if you want to if, if we get that. 493 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,160 Far. OK, so I envision this as like 494 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,320 yes or no question. Yes or no is the best way you 495 00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:58,960 can do it. Yep. 496 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,080 So first question, is it a creature? 497 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,560 Yes. Second question, is it multi 498 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,800 colored? No. 499 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,080 OK. Third question, does it cost 500 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,080 more than five CMC? No. 501 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:16,840 So single colored creature cost less than 5. 502 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,080 Correct, that was your 4th question. 503 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,000 Hey, that wasn't a question. Single colored creature cost 504 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,520 less than 5. Does it have multiple types? 505 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,760 No, So it is a single typed creature. 506 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,200 Oh man, that's four. This is where it gets hard 507 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,600 because there's so many that I can think of. 508 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,840 I'm trying to think of what things you can answer. 509 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,840 Is it legendary? No. 510 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,680 It's not legendary. OK, so we have creature single 511 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:48,040 colored cost less than 5 legendary, not a single type, 512 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:49,960 not legendary sorry. And is a single type. 513 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,800 Yes. Is it black? 514 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:53,920 No. Oh. 515 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,200 Not what I thought. OK, that's six. 516 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,720 So it's not black. Oh man, that's six. 517 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,680 I have four more, including the guests. 518 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,400 Is it green? Yes. 519 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,840 Does it cost 1? No. 520 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,160 Oh OK so I have two more. It's green cost less than 5. 521 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,360 Is it a mana dork? No. 522 00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,960 Oh. One more is it a game changer? 523 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,880 No. OK, so that goes my all my ideas 524 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,600 are out of the out of the out of the out of the questions I have. 525 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:28,880 One do you? Do you want a hint? 526 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,520 It's up to you. I will throw you a bone here and 527 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,280 give you a hint. Jesse, this is one of your 528 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,720 favorite cards ever printed. And it's green. 529 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,640 Oh man, I hold on. I see the picture in my head. 530 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,840 But oh do you were the first. I can't remember the first part 531 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,960 of it. Questing Beast. 532 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,480 No. Same man of course though. 533 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,320 Thought it was 4. That's my guess. 534 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,040 Was questing beast. OK, it's avenge Vine. 535 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,240 Yes, Jesus Christ, your turn. That was good. 536 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,800 OK, let's get this started. Is this card a permanent? 537 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,120 Yes. Is it a creature? 538 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:05,160 Yes. I liked your legendary question. 539 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:06,640 Is it legendary? No. 540 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,360 No. Is it an artifact creature? 541 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:17,840 No. OK, Is this creature multicolor? 542 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,760 No. Is this creature blue? 543 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,240 No 6 See a four left. So mono color creature non 544 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,480 legendary. Is this creature converted 545 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,720 manacost 4 or less? No. 546 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:38,760 Big, big boy. OK, yeah, and it's mono color, 547 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,760 so it's not in a multi color. Is this creature a commander 548 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,360 staple? Like is it in like every 549 00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:46,280 commander deck that you would play it in? 550 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,480 Yes. Yes, Oh my gosh, it's still 551 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,360 hard. To left. 552 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,880 I have two left. I don't even know what color 553 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:59,920 this thing is. Is this I've CMC or in a lot of 554 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,440 it's not blue is it? Would it fall under the nya 555 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,160 Shard? Is it white, green or red? 556 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,840 It falls within those three colors, one left plus the guess 557 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:12,920 itself. Is it green? 558 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:15,800 Yes, it's crater Hoof behemoth. Yes it is. 559 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,400 Yes, it is. We both picked a green card. 560 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:19,200 That's great. I know, right? 561 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,600 That's great. That was that's where I was 562 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,720 thinking it was going at that point. 563 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,800 Especially when you're like, it's in a lot of commander 564 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,080 decks. Yeah. 565 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,040 And is in those type of strategies, but that there's so 566 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,200 many of those strategies out. There no, not every green Jack 567 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,920 green deck is jamming a hoof in it just because, because you a 568 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,120 lot. Sometimes you're just not going 569 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,800 to get value out of it even after like a board sweep or 570 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,600 something. That creator who feels really 571 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,880 bad in your hand at that point. Just like after what super gay 572 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,000 is credo feels really bad. Yep, Yep. 573 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,000 All right. So if I mean, if you guys like 574 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,880 that, let us know in the comments, we can pick that up 575 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,600 again that the 10 questions for our next Magic podcast and we'll 576 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,480 do that again. Maybe we'll go a little bit more 577 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,040 difficult for each other or not that that felt that felt pretty 578 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,640 good as far as difficulty goes. And and those questions run out 579 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,240 freaking fast. Yeah. 580 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,200 So maybe 10, I don't know if 10 is too little, I don't know, 581 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,120 maybe have like a lifeline or something. 12 questions. 582 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,120 Yeah, something right. Like I'm just so just if it is, 583 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,320 I guess it is a commander's staple. 584 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,280 Like I'm looking to see which one. 585 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,040 My green decks, I don't have that many. 586 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:30,240 I think I have three that run it and I have 123-4567 green decks 587 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,960 and three of them running. OK. 588 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,040 So I I mean that's almost 50%. So yeah, I would say it's a 589 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,600 stable. It's it's a everybody knows 590 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,920 crater hoof behemoth too. So that's that's great. 591 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,960 All right, jumping back into our topics, let's talk a little bit 592 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,400 about game changers. The the the elephant ambush in 593 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,680 the room here, especially with Jesse and I and and other people 594 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,360 in our pod have strong feelings about game Changers. 595 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,960 Joe in particular, really, really strong feelings about 596 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,560 game changers. So my argument for bracket 3 and 597 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,280 I know we've just talked about powering it down with bad, you 598 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,520 know, worse mana bases, no infinite combos, no tutors, 599 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:07,920 right? We just talked about powering 600 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,160 things down. I'd argue that it needs to allow 601 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,840 for more game changers. Here's my. 602 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,360 Logic. OK, go ahead. 603 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,240 OK. Here's my logic. 604 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,760 There is no cap on Game Changers in bracket 4. 605 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,240 You go from only three to powering up your bracket three 606 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,440 deck. In the bracket four with it's 607 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,840 the wild Wild West. You are walking out your front 608 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:34,120 door to trench warfare with every imaginable bracket game 609 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,520 changer, mortars flying over your head and you're going, 610 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,120 guys, I just have three-game changers. 611 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,280 What? What do I need to do here or 612 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,720 with? Will Smith in a cowboy hat for 613 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,560 doing Wild Wild West. You know, and Lovelace is in his 614 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,640 wheelchair and Kenneth Branagh has the weird beard mustache 615 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,960 thing. So I saw that movie in Drive in 616 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,920 theaters 100 years ago when it came out. 617 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,240 Yeah. Yeah. 618 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,320 It was very popular when I was in high school because of the 619 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,040 Will Smith songs and everything with. 620 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,360 Wild, Wild West. I'd argue that we need to expand 621 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,000 the list of game changers. And for example, I mean I talked 622 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:13,560 about it earlier, we're missing some lands lands name changers 623 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,520 list. Like why is Cabal coffers not a 624 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,840 game changer? That card is just as easy to 625 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,560 abuse as a gay, as cradle, as a Sarah Sanctum. 626 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,800 Yep. I mean, werborg exists. 627 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:27,840 Nick those Why is that not a game changer? 628 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,520 Bingo. Why is Nick those not a game 629 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,960 changer? That card is easy to abuse. 630 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,400 It just as easy to abuse as gay as Cradle in my opinion. 631 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:40,520 Frexing Tower, I know you're not thinking that like a two mana 632 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,640 jump is is really good, but in a deck that wants to sacrifice 633 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,640 creatures, you're going mana positive off of a Phrexian tower 634 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,560 with an instant speed sacrifice capability. 635 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,640 I mean, I shut down Matt's friggin light pause phasing deck 636 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:01,040 with a Phrexian tower and tokens and a great pack, but Phrexian 637 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,040 Tower is really good. It's really strong. 638 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,560 It's one land, 2 mana, things like that need to be considered. 639 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,680 Yeah, flexing tower. Flexing tower is free to to 640 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,280 play. You know, it doesn't even, it's, 641 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,760 it's super mana positive. All lands are mana positive. 642 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,040 This is double positive. I just think more game changers 643 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,280 need to be included. And additionally, if you look at 644 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,480 bracket two to three, we go from zero to only 30 to only three 645 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,240 and we're printing game changers in bracket 2. 646 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,160 Make that make sense Again, I'm I'm going to hit on that. 647 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,000 You're you're putting them in pre cons now, so by default with 648 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,320 the last update in April your whole brackets are broken 649 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,280 because pre cons supposed to be bracket 2 and now they have game 650 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:44,800 changers therefore they're bracket 3. 651 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,520 That's right. That's right. 652 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,000 And and listen, it's OK. They probably will acknowledge 653 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,960 that if they haven't already. If they have, I've missed it. 654 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,600 And again, that's that's fine. And you know, I, I don't want 655 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,280 this podcast to sound like, Oh my God, this is terrible. 656 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,440 These are our critiques of everything of a beta system that 657 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,600 is still very much in, in draft phase. 658 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,320 And they're going to be working on it and continuing to improve 659 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,720 upon it and everything, you know, and like we always apply 660 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,480 to things. This is, this is just our little 661 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,000 world and our observations and that's all we can do. 662 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,360 You know, I'm not a CEDH player. I can't speak to bracket 5 at 663 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,680 all. I have no intention of Speaking 664 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,680 of bracket 5 at all. That's just not for me. 665 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,000 Yeah, we live in 234 as of now. I still want you guys to build 666 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,600 some one decks so we can play them, but that's a different 667 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,400 story all I mean. Wouldn't some of our Pendragon 668 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,560 decks now that that is a recognized format on 669 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,480 mockfield.com by the way? Yes. 670 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,440 Wouldn't those be somewhat 1/2? I mean, they are. 671 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,480 I mean, I don't know my my my current deck I would not say is 672 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,960 A1. It's more of a three I think. 673 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,440 Well, time out. You're not running enchantment 674 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,720 removal. Nope on that out the hard way. 675 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,360 So I I mean, but I'm enjoying for what it's worth, the lower 676 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,840 powered popper type decks and everything as well for for those 677 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,440 same reasons. And the variance in those games 678 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,240 keeps things so fun. Exciting. 679 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,040 Say I cast this and they're like, what does that do? 680 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,719 What is that? I've never seen that before. 681 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,000 Like that that card that like buffed and then when it died, 682 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,480 you got like A32L Drazi horror thing. 683 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,560 Like I've never seen that card in my life. 684 00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:21,080 And and and that's what makes that fun and interesting, but 685 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:27,080 like game changers alone as they are today, don't normally feel 686 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,639 game changing. Sometimes, like there are some 687 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:34,120 cards like Crater Hoof Behemoth like we talked about that can 688 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,040 drop and I don't. Is that even a game changer? 689 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,560 What is what crater hoof? Crater Hoof. 690 00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:40,040 No, it's not. It's not. 691 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,400 It's I have a whole note section here at the end says why is Hoof 692 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,000 not a game changer? It's literally on the newts, the 693 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,520 newts, the newts. The crater Newts on the newts. 694 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,159 Why not? Hoof, Yeah. 695 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,480 I mean Crater Hoof does come down and can just end games. 696 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,200 It's a game changer, that is. Literally. 697 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,320 Changes the game. Very definition of a game 698 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,280 changer. That kind of card literally 699 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,600 changes the game from from going to over. 700 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,800 Smothering tie doesn't do that. It does change the way that the 701 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,560 game is played. It most certainly does. 702 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,880 Like my notes, I say to fairest protection is a one time thing. 703 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,120 If it if to the point where you cast a protect T protection. 704 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,120 I put T protection because I want to spell the whole thing T. 705 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,080 Pro. If that changes the game, the 706 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,360 game is already at the end. Where is a creative behemoth can 707 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,000 take you from. I have 5 little 1 ones or 10 708 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,280 little 1 ones to I'm swinging for over 100. 709 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,640 Game, Yeah. So Hoof belongs more on the game 710 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,320 changers list than to fairest protection does. 711 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,400 Game changers can change the game when drawn under the right 712 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,520 circumstances, but they are not always like, does a wristic 713 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,080 study change the game? It changes how we play it. 714 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,840 And if you're a good player, you're going to pay the one 715 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,040 where you can. And, and sometimes after turn 716 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,800 345, wristic study gets worse and worse and worse for the 717 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,680 person who cast it because they're paying the tax. 718 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,040 They can afford the tax and you're not relying on that tempo 719 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,040 gain of of the card draw and everything. 720 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,240 Did that change the game? Yes. 721 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,880 Was it? You know, I want to think of 722 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,000 game changers as game Breakers cards. 723 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,520 Yeah. Like break the game open. 724 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,240 Or shards is not a game changer. Not in the wrong deck for sure. 725 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:21,880 That's the other thing I'm actually. 726 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,400 I'm playing or shards, right? I have no creatures. 727 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,320 I'm not casting creatures. You have no enchantments. 728 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,200 What is it doing? But it's a game changer because 729 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,800 it's in your deck, Jesse, regardless of what the meta game 730 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,680 is that this is scratching it. I have a game as Cradle, it's a 731 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,080 game changer when I have creatures out. 732 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,400 But say I'm playing a whole bunch of board wipes, it's not a 733 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:40,960 game changer anymore. It's a dead card. 734 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:44,520 Contextual game changers would be really hard to mandate in in 735 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,000 a bracket system and everything. But I think context matters here 736 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,760 because, and that's where that Rule 0 conversation that we talk 737 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,840 about is so important, right? I can rely heavily on Crop 738 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,640 rotation hitting a Gaze Cradle in my deck and it's token heavy. 739 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,440 I'm going to generate a ton of mana and oh by the way, I have 740 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,240 two infinite combos that I can feed off of this game's Cradle. 741 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:08,760 And by the way, everything that I just said is in bracket three. 742 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,960 That's game breaking. It is, it just shouldn't exist. 743 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:13,800 I don't think game should just exist at all. 744 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,360 I'm not sure they need to exist. Because everything. 745 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,440 Point of there should be more, in which case why? 746 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:23,640 Yeah, in in context everything can be game changer. 747 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,160 It sure can. Depending on the right deck by 748 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,880 the right pilot in the right board state, everything is a 749 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:30,400 game. Changer. 750 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,840 Highly synergistic decks play game changers regardless of 751 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,160 whether they're on the list or not. 752 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,640 Like we saw a Forgotten Ancient get out of control in the right 753 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,400 deck because it just got counters and it popped us all 754 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,160 and that that's not a game changer. 755 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,880 That card is is not broken by any stretch. 756 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,400 Butcher of Malachar. Not a game changer. 757 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,040 Not a game changer, but look what it does. 758 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,280 It can shut things down just like a good grave pact or 759 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,240 something, you know? Yeah, those aren't game changers 760 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,560 though. Those things can happen. 761 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,720 That then becomes the puzzle for the table to solve. 762 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,400 And if you don't Path to Exile the Butcher of Malik here, and 763 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,000 you Path to Exile one of Bob's cards instead like a doofus, 764 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,480 he's never gonna. Jesse wins the game. 765 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,560 He's never going to forget that. It happens. 766 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,240 It just so I want to start us thinking about things as cards 767 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:25,720 that can break the game open and maybe those should really truly 768 00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:27,400 be considered as your game changers. 769 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,480 Those cards that are so swingy, Ellis Norton, mother of machines 770 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,840 can actually just break the game. 771 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,960 Yeah, it dies to removal. It does. 772 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:37,720 You guys packing a lot of removal out there. 773 00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:41,200 Are your decks packing 15 plus interactions in your decks? 774 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,480 I'm not your. CADH. 775 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:47,200 I'm not in every deck. My bracket fours are packing 15 776 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,640 plus cards that interact with other cards. 777 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,520 My bracket 3 sure aren't. Nope. 778 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,520 Mommy really. Mommy really stalls out games in 779 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,440 bracket. I just I just upgraded brash and 780 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,160 torrents to have 11 plus removal and interaction to both of them 781 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:05,200 now. It matters. 782 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,160 It does. And that context also matters in 783 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,200 bracket 3 if you're not building your bracket three deck to be 784 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,280 hyper competitive because let's, let's, let's be honest, let's 785 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,160 call spade spade here. Bracket 3 is still a social 786 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,880 bracket in my opinion. It's still that feel things out. 787 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,880 Punch counterpunch, play the game out, you're looking at 10 788 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,760 turns and the game's over, give or take. 789 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,400 Is that a place to just drop an Elish Norn Mother of Machines 790 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,440 turn 4 and shut down every ETB effect and double your own that? 791 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,200 That's pretty rough. It could come down even earlier 792 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,440 if you luck sack that soul ring. Soul ring into an arcane signet 793 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,320 turn 2. Elish norn possibly? 794 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,240 Sounds great. You know, there there are cars 795 00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:49,960 that impact the board the second they come down and resolve. 796 00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:54,480 You know, I'd argue that Bolas's Citadel could do that. 797 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,360 Also, you're playing cards paying you 40 life. 798 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,400 Necropotence Is necropotence a game changer? 799 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,800 No, it should as hell. I think it actually I think it 800 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,160 was added. Did it get added? 801 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,680 OK? But like Joe was out there 802 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,480 going, why is this not a game changer? 803 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,680 That card warps the game the second it hits the board. 804 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:14,960 Jesse's looking it up, I can tell. 805 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,200 Yes, it was just added OK in April. 806 00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:20,960 So they they acknowledged that and, and by that criteria, I 807 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,400 think is what we should be looking at Game changers or have 808 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,880 none at all to Jesse's point. Now what? 809 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,040 What's the new Necro Potence that was just printed? 810 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:29,320 Necro. Dominance. 811 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,120 Yeah, that's not in the game changer list. 812 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,600 That should be like why is Imperial Seal in the game 813 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,600 changer list? Because it's a vamp tutor. 814 00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:39,840 Vamp tutor's on there, yeah. Oh, so it's not? 815 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,360 Is Imperial Seer an instant also? 816 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,320 Imperial Seal I think is a sorcery, isn't? 817 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,400 It maybe that's their that one actually, that's right. 818 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,320 That's right. A1 mana tutor for anything in 819 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,560 two life, regardless of whether it's an instant or a sorcery. 820 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:54,720 Sorcery. It's a sorcery. 821 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:57,840 So that's their logic. It's not an instant like vamp 822 00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,400 tutor. Yeah, it's a sorcery. 823 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:00,680 Awesome. No, it's on there. 824 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,720 It's on the game changer list. Oh, OK. 825 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,400 That's a sorcery. We can build the decks we want, 826 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:10,360 but you know, even with the unintended hypocrisy of bracket 827 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,320 3 having game changers when some pre cons come with them, you 828 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,640 know it presents a problem for the spirit of the bracket. 829 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,520 And as I said, I'm looking at you soul ring. 830 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,320 Those mana positive artifacts that are being printed in every 831 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,560 friggin deck when you build your deck. 832 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,240 All right, command tower, Arcane, Cygnus Soul ring, 96 833 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:33,360 more cards, you know, at what point are they going to keep 834 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,280 printing stuff? And, and Gavin was literally 835 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,920 talking about this on Thursday during like a surprise live 836 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,560 stream when he was just answering questions. 837 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,400 Is that that as, as Wizards is printing more cards, they are 838 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,600 doing their damnedest not to print a card that becomes part 839 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,840 of that four cards that you build every commander deck with. 840 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:55,240 He admitted that Arcane Signet was a was a mistake. 841 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,040 They built it for Brawl and forgot about commander. 842 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,320 That is a downright lie. That's what he said. 843 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,560 That is a downright lie. How long, how long? 844 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,080 How long has Arcane Singer been out for? 845 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:07,840 They built it for Brawl, allegedly. 846 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,680 I do not believe that for one bit. 847 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:15,440 So Arcane Signet was first printed in Really Throne of L 848 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,000 drain. They built it for Brawl. 849 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,440 I'm yeah they every set since and I would argue that's more 850 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,440 fair than Soul Ring is. It is. 851 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,000 It's not man of positive, it's 2 for one. 852 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,000 Yeah. Arcane Cygnets of perfectly fine 853 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,760 card. The problem is that every deck 854 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,680 has it in it, although my mono colored decks aren't running it 855 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,760 even though it's technically ramp like. 856 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,080 I'd rather have a card doing something else in my mono 857 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,840 colored decks to an extent. Unless there's an artifact sub 858 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,400 theme and then which case? Designed to help accelerate and 859 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,400 facilitate that brand new Magic format in 2019. 860 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,360 Bob knows what he's talking about sometimes here. 861 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,560 That's I can't. I thought it was older than 862 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,000 that. It's everywhere. 863 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,120 It's hard to believe that's the origin of Arcane Signet, but 864 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,120 that's just where we're. At that's a mistake, but Soul 865 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,000 Ring isn't, Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. 866 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,000 It's. In alpha, so it can't be or beta 867 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:07,320 so it can't be a mistake. It's. 868 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,040 Soul Ring is the mascot of Commander. 869 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,200 Sure is. It's it's the mascot of 870 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,560 commander. Everything revolves around soul 871 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,640 ring. I can't wait till Holi gets my 872 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,800 my emotes going with my no soul ring emotes because that's going 873 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,040 to be really funny. I hate the card and and yet I 874 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,920 I'm playing it in my deck so I've gotten rid of soul Talisman 875 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,160 because you guys refuse to jump on with the soul Talisman. 876 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,160 I'm not doing that. Right, because you can. 877 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,360 You're allowed to play Soul Ring. 878 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,480 You know it's. It's we want to be more 879 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,120 competitive. Soul Ring will will do that. 880 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,200 So Jesse, you, you have an interesting take here that I'm 881 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,080 just going to say upfront I disagree with, but let's hear 882 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,040 it. Which which one? 883 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,720 Your solution? So my. 884 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:49,720 Solution. Jesse solved it by the way. 885 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,600 My solution is going back to what it was before 10 brackets 886 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,480 make it official because before let's there wasn't an official 887 00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,520 no system and the way things were before is there is A1 to a 888 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,040 10. So to me, one through 4 889 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,320 brackets, one through 4 are your precons and your upgraded 890 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,840 precons. So like I take Idris, I upgrade 891 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,600 it with some better lands. It lands in three or four. 892 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,000 You take Pendragon stuff, it's going to be in a one through a 893 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,280 four. You have one to three-game 894 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,680 changers in a brackets, one through 4. 895 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,440 Now this is. I also think Game Changer should 896 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,400 be eliminated but keep them in. Right, right. 897 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,920 Putting something in writing, you're suggesting one to 898 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:32,440 three-game changers there? Yep. 899 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,640 If if we're going to acknowledge that they're not going away, by 900 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,120 the way, they're not going away. They're not That's that's 901 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,760 something that that committee created, they're very proud of. 902 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,040 That's not going away. So you got, now obviously it's 903 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,200 there's 10 so you can't slit it into perfect threes, but you 904 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:53,120 have your one through 4, your beginner, your fun, you know 905 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,560 those type of things. Bracket 5 through 7 are your 906 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,520 more powerful decks that have combos and they have unlimited 907 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,800 game changers. 5 through 7. That's in my opinion. 5 through 908 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,440 7 isn't your sweet spot. So you take bracket 3 and that 909 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,560 becomes 5-6 and seven. OK, so you have 8, my decks is 910 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,920 7. Yep you have and then you have 911 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,600 again unlimited game changers. You have 8-9 and ten. 912 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:21,400 That is your what I call pre CDH and your tournament CDH decks. 913 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,320 So that's your degenerate infinite combo, all kinds of 914 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,040 tutor stuff. And 8-9 and 10. 915 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,640 To me, 8 is like you're experimenting with really 916 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,560 powerful things and you're getting into the point where 917 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,040 it's not fun for everybody. And then your nine and 10 are 918 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,640 the stuff I'm going to tournament and I want to win 919 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,040 unlimited game changers. It's it's you can't put 30 plus 920 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:48,360 years of cards into 5 buckets. You can't. 921 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,560 It's not possible. They're printing too many cards 922 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,320 to do that. Well, look at look at what 923 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,120 standard suffering from right now. 924 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,200 Yeah. And you have a format like 925 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,920 commander that's not rotating. It's impossible to do 5. 926 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,200 It's just absolutely impossible. There's no point. 927 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,800 Now, if you rotate it and say, you know, standard commander, 928 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,320 you want to call it, that is the last five years. 929 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,880 Historic commander is the last 15 years and traditional 930 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,440 commander or vintage commander is everything. 931 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,240 Pre DH. But you can't. 932 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,520 It's impossible. It has to be the one through 10. 933 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:29,120 If you want to put commander in a corner, it has to be one 934 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,800 through 10. Otherwise just make it a rule 0 935 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:33,520 conversation. Don't even have any of this 936 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,640 stuff. Have a banned list, 100% should 937 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,080 be a band list. Oh yeah have then have no have 938 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,320 no game changers, have no brackets. 939 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,920 Just encourage rule 0 and let the players have at it. 940 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,000 I can't stress enough the importance of a rule 0 941 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,760 conversation. And you know, you can't forget 942 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,680 to have that conversation because if you go into a game 943 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,760 with your bracket three deck and you're expecting bracket 3 944 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,680 gameplay and someone, you didn't have that conversation and 945 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,920 someone breaks out a four nice really high-powered 4 and they 946 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,000 they do go off, they combo off and kill the table on turn 5-6. 947 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,600 Your bracket 3 expectations sure as hell weren't that. 948 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,320 What did I do? I didn't get to do anything. 949 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,480 I didn't do the thing. I played some lands, I played 950 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,560 some spells and then I just died. 951 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,680 Now that happens in bracket 3 still again, we talked about 952 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,880 that naturally through variants and everything that's guaranteed 953 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,760 to happen, it's going to. Happen every single time. 954 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,480 Correct. It's not going to consistently 955 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,160 happen like it would in your eight through 10s or your 956 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,640 bracket 4. If, if you're working on or 957 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,640 you're playing in a a pod that you know is 8 through 10, you're 958 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,240 going to expect that. If you're in a pod that's five 959 00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:46,560 through 7, maybe once every three games, that will happen. 960 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:49,800 And if you're one through 4, that should never happen. 961 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,360 But now it can happen as low as bracket 3. 962 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,560 It it definitely can as defined and and I think that's why as as 963 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,840 we go over things with with our bracket, three suggestions. 964 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:00,160 Break them. Break the brackets. 965 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,880 We need to change the way bracket 3 is because it's, it's 966 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,240 the middle bracket, it's the my deck is A7. 967 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,160 It's, it's too wide open and it needs further restrictions. 968 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,160 And we touched on that. But those rule conversations are 969 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,880 so important, so important to have. 970 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:17,720 They're more important than anything. 971 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,760 Level set your expectations at the beginning of the game. 972 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:22,960 Yeah, they're more important than anything. 973 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:27,000 And that, that's what makes to me, like me personally, going to 974 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,840 like a a local game store and playing I, it's not attractive 975 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,240 to me because those players aren't going to have that 976 00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:34,160 conversation. No, no, it's truth be told. 977 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,000 They're 43 years old. That's kind of anxiety inducing, 978 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,680 like going to an LGS and sitting down at a table and and they're 979 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,840 like, well, rule conversations are stupid, brackets are stupid. 980 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,080 OK, thanks. Is this pod looking for 981 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,440 something? You know, like I don't. 982 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,120 I mean, hell, I had a Mother's Day thing that I went to and I 983 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,840 played with two people that, you know, one guy was the husband of 984 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,400 someone else who used to be on the pro tour and one of his 985 00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:58,640 friends. And we had a little bit of a 986 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,880 conversation before and it was awkward because they're like, 987 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,240 oh, like they're saying my decks aren't. 988 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,400 And they were, they were right. Like their decks weren't that 989 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:06,480 powerful. Yeah. 990 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,880 And I'm like, I'm trying to say like I had I brought prosche 991 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,840 with me and this is my underpowered prosche in my 992 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,720 opinion. And they wanted to see it. 993 00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:16,000 And I'm like, I don't know. It's not really. 994 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,720 As it ended, I'm assuming you won with Prosch. 995 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,560 Yeah, yeah. As it ended, did they go so like 996 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,040 that's what you were talking about? 997 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,480 No, they need to see it. We were, we were low on time. 998 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,200 So it was one of their well, you have to go OK, then I'm gonna do 999 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,200 this and the game. That's what I did. 1000 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:34,960 I said, OK, you're you have to go. 1001 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:36,480 OK, I'm gonna do that cuz I was holding it. 1002 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,160 I was holding it back cuz I wanted the game to go longer. 1003 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,000 I'm like, you have to go, OK, I'm gonna do this, this, this 1004 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:41,880 and wipe people at the same time. 1005 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,640 Yep. Yeah, OK, so but I tried to tell 1006 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,360 them, you know I brought pre cons with me. 1007 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:48,760 Let me put no, we want to see prosch. 1008 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:50,520 I'm like, OK, you asked for it. You. 1009 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,480 Asked for it. OK, so let's let's talk a little 1010 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,160 bit. Let's summarize here because 1011 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,000 we're we're we're at the end of our suggestions and 1012 00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,160 improvements. And of course, my dumbass never 1013 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,320 actually wrote a summary to put on the end. 1014 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,480 So we're going to go back through our notes and summarize 1015 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,960 how we feel about these things. Meta bases, they matter for 1016 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,000 bracket 3 Jesse. Do we allow an optimized mana 1017 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,200 base with fetches, optimal fetches and everything Dual 1018 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:15,920 Lance? No. 1019 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:17,680 No. I agree. 1020 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,160 Bracket three stands if we're not changing because it from. 1021 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,200 In my solution that would be brackets 5 and up. 1022 00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,760 As it stands, bracket 3 should not have those. 1023 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,200 They should. You can have some I think, but 1024 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,840 not a completely optimized mana base and that's then you say, 1025 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,040 well, which ones do you well, how many can you have? 1026 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,680 Well, if you have three-game changes and you have 3 optimized 1027 00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:39,800 lands. It matters. 1028 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:44,120 It matters for tempo, especially when decks are not created 1029 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,800 equally and anything is fair game with your mana bases. 1030 00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:53,000 That tempo lost with a Turn 1 tap land versus a Turn 1 dual 1031 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,240 land matters. Make make those type of lands 1032 00:50:56,240 --> 00:50:58,000 game changers and see how that affects it. 1033 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,920 Because then you got to you got to choose between the game 1034 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,240 changers that's there now and your mana base. 1035 00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:06,320 I guarantee everybody would do mana base. 1036 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:08,840 Yeah, they would. And. 1037 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,800 Suddenly you got four and suddenly you're bracket for 1038 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,320 duck. Min maxing we we think that 1039 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,640 based on what you can do in bracket three, we should have no 1040 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,960 tutors in bracket 3. Not a single one. 1041 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:25,000 And that includes creature tutors, trinket mage, Fierce 1042 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,000 empath. A fetch land as a tutor, let's 1043 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,240 be honest. Well, there you go. 1044 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,880 Those kinds of things should not be hanging out in bracket three. 1045 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:38,640 It makes for, as you said, the same gameplay experience every 1046 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,040 single time, every time. And there is a place for decks 1047 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:42,760 like that. It's called bracket 4:00 and 1048 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,240 5:00. Yeah, no, you mean 8-9 and 10? 1049 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:49,840 We're going to fight about this. No that that's where those 1050 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,200 belong. Bracket 3 should be the fun wild 1051 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,600 variance bracket where I get to play with my owerful toys but I 1052 00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,240 don't get to line them U the way I want them to. 1053 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,240 So should we have any game changers in bracket 3? 1054 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:07,280 Or should we outlaw game changers entirely and just be 1055 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,520 smarter about things? Or should we create a different 1056 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,400 category and scrutinize game changers a little bit more to 1057 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,360 have what what we just discussed as game Breakers? 1058 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,040 Cards that truly impact the game the second they hit the board. 1059 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,960 That I kind of like that idea. There there is a skill level to 1060 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:26,520 getting around a smothering tie to getting around a wristic 1061 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,920 study Mystic Remora turn 1 is just unavoidable. 1062 00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,640 That's you're going to be not paying for mana and and they're 1063 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,880 going to be drawing cards off it, but it's got a cumulative 1064 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,440 upkeep. That card is not staying out 1065 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,120 past one or two rotations. It's just not so. 1066 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,600 Again, I I think these cards with these kinds of drawbacks 1067 00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,880 aren't truly game changers. Well, they said. 1068 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,800 Orishards is not a game changer. Well, maybe they're game 1069 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,040 changers, but they're not game Breakers as we call, right? 1070 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,760 Maybe that's the category. Maybe that's how we need to be 1071 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,280 looking at in evaluating these game changers and instead of 1072 00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,440 thinking, does this change the way the game flows? 1073 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,160 Yeah, it does. And Orishards can definitely do 1074 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,040 that, especially if you're playing against an enchantress 1075 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,200 deck and a creature heavy deck. Yeah, that changes the game, but 1076 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,080 yeah, on its own doesn't break the game wide open. 1077 00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:16,160 How many cards could be a game changer in the right scenario, 1078 00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:18,680 right? So I think changing it to game 1079 00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,600 Breakers and knocking that list down to like 5 or whatever you 1080 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,240 would you would select. Yeah. 1081 00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:27,360 To make a game break. Like even then like I I mean I 1082 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,880 guess moxes and stuff are still banned but they're not they are 1083 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,040 game Breakers. They're mana positive artifacts. 1084 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:34,520 They're fast mana. It's a big deal. 1085 00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,120 So like devil's advocate, people would say well if it's a game 1086 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,240 breaker it's going to be banned. OK, ban it then. 1087 00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,880 Yeah, so that means get rid of Game Changers and just keep Game 1088 00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,280 Breakers and make them ban. I'm fine with that more. 1089 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:49,400 Aggressive. Should be banned. 1090 00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,640 Necrotense should be banned. Infinite combos in bracket 1091 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,600 three, yeah or nay? No, none. 1092 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,920 Not even late game. 2 card combos? 1093 00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:57,840 Nope. Nope. 1094 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:03,600 Games ending abruptly suck, and even through an 11:50 1095 00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:05,840 playthroughs, you're going to get that happening naturally. 1096 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,160 It's just going to happen and it's still going to suck for 1097 00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,080 that table and that game and those players that you sat down 1098 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,200 with. Even when that infinite combo 1099 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:15,680 happens naturally. I just think. 1100 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,880 Like what happens is you have your infinite combos combined 1101 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,240 with the tutors to make it happen. 1102 00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,760 Consistently. Yeah, that's that's what makes 1103 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,360 it not fun. And and you you can do that as 1104 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,520 bracket 3 is written right now. Right, right. 1105 00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,320 Which is not fun. And how do you define late game? 1106 00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,880 Late game? Is it after turn 6 so I can do 1107 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,480 it turn 7? Yeah, for like EDH or CEDH late 1108 00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:41,680 game is turn 3. Like, come on. 1109 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:46,480 Right, so defining late game in bracket 3 is also very tricky 1110 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:51,040 and it's in their definition. They call them late Game, 2 card 1111 00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,200 combos, infinite combos. That's tough. 1112 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,360 Now what about a four, four card infinite combo? 1113 00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,400 That's not well. We still saw that on Wednesday 1114 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:01,560 night. Is that a bracket 2? 1115 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,640 That was bracket three. It was Kerador and Kerador's 1116 00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:09,360 Bracket 3 as built, which is insane to think there's some. 1117 00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:10,600 Problem if it was a one through ton. 1118 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,120 There's some work. There's some work that needs to 1119 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,720 be done in bracket three. No infinite combos. 1120 00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:19,000 Take them away. Make it a more interesting game. 1121 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,760 Make it the I want to play with my powerful toys without the 1122 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,760 consistency. Now this is about the variance. 1123 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,360 We're talking about infinite combos, What about hard locks? 1124 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,040 That's always tricky. I mean, do you have a choice to 1125 00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:32,960 not play against that deck? Yep. 1126 00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:35,440 Well then you have a choice not to play against infinite combos. 1127 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,240 If you have a rule 0 conversation. 1128 00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:40,760 Hey, look at that. Goes all back to communication. 1129 00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,840 It sure does. It sure does. 1130 00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,600 I mean, that's, that's it. That's that's our our thing in a 1131 00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,680 nutshell. Take it or leave it. 1132 00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:49,880 We are not the authority on this. 1133 00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,600 This is again, our own little observations in our own little 1134 00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,640 world and the games that we've played and other fun things. 1135 00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:57,640 You know, do we expand the brackets? 1136 00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:59,960 Maybe, maybe Jesse's on to something. 1137 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:01,760 Is it 10? Is it 5? 1138 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,360 Is it or we're already at 5? Is it 6? 1139 00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,200 Is it 7? Where are we at? 1140 00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,400 Maybe there's room for that. Maybe people have a taste for 1141 00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,440 that, but again, we're not solving this. 1142 00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,720 This is just our our love letter to the bracket system, if you 1143 00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:17,160 want to call it that, our constructive criticism and 1144 00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,280 feedback that we have. It's your love lover. 1145 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:20,720 It's my I'm breaking up with you letter. 1146 00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,440 We've been, we've been playing under this bracket system for a 1147 00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,000 little over a month now. And these are our observations 1148 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:27,520 and, and I think they're all valid. 1149 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,920 Whether people agree or not, that's that's a different story. 1150 00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,480 Let us know in the comments. Let us know what you're 1151 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,320 thinking. Let us know if we're way off. 1152 00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,440 I don't care. Feed the algorithm, you know, 1153 00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:40,120 but but if we're on to something, start talking to your 1154 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,320 groups about it. Talk to your pods about it. 1155 00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,840 Ask how they feel. Talk about the bracket system. 1156 00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,320 It's not going away. That's the important take away 1157 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,200 from all of this. It's not going away much. 1158 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:52,680 Time on it, It's not going to go away. 1159 00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:54,840 And the Game Changers aren't going away either. 1160 00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,520 As much as Jesse and I want them to, we want them to evolve into 1161 00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,200 Game Breakers. It's not going to happen. 1162 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,000 But talk to your pods about this. 1163 00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:03,600 Let them know if you agree with us. 1164 00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:05,680 If you don't agree with us, that's cool too. 1165 00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,440 That's why Rule 0 is important. That's why these brackets exist. 1166 00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,920 And oh, by the way, one final, final thing on this. 1167 00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,520 OK, if you don't like any of this, you don't have to do it. 1168 00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:18,920 You're not playing in a sanctioned tournament. 1169 00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,080 You're playing tabletop Magic with your friends. 1170 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,160 Hell, if you want to have a pod that there's no bands at all, 1171 00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:25,320 go. Ahead and. 1172 00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:30,480 Play your mox amber or not mox emerald, mox jet all that turn 1173 00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,960 1. Play your jewel Lotus again. 1174 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:35,440 It doesn't matter. Who cares? 1175 00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:36,880 Wizards isn't going to knock your door. 1176 00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,440 Well, that's kind of a the Pinkertons did go the 1177 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:41,920 Pinkertons. I was just going to say they're 1178 00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,960 not going to knock your door down because you're playing a 1179 00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:45,600 Jeweled Lotus with your friends, right? 1180 00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:47,120 It's just it's not going to happen. 1181 00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,480 It all goes back to the conversation. 1182 00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:53,520 Yep, have the communication. Like our pod chooses to do what 1183 00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,760 we're doing because of how long we've been doing this for. 1184 00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,560 I mean, this year alone we had a rough patch where things are 1185 00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,400 getting more powerful. We had a conversation and now 1186 00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,040 we're OK with it. Yep, Yep. 1187 00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,240 And so we we level set at the beginning of the of the days 1188 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:09,600 when we're choosing our decks, right. 1189 00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:13,160 I'm like, I'm feeling bracket 3 today or I'm feeling bracket 1190 00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,520 four. Punch me in the face, you know, 1191 00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:21,040 So that's the conversation. And again, you don't have to 1192 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:22,640 play by any rules. No. 1193 00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,680 I we, we've heard Pleasant Kenobi's goofy video from a few 1194 00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,760 weeks ago talking about made-up commander roles that he's heard 1195 00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:33,400 and there was some hysterical stuff in there that people. 1196 00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:36,480 Do yeah. So, and that's cool. 1197 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:37,720 It's. Whatever works for your pond. 1198 00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,720 You do you, you do you. I think that's it for tonight, 1199 00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,680 Jesse. Any final thoughts from you like 1200 00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,080 as usual? As usual, I'm always right, 10 1201 00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,720 brackets is the way to go. No game changers. 10 brackets. 1202 00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:53,920 I disagree, and that's OK. I'll leave. 1203 00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,440 I'll leave you guys with that. Hey, thanks for listening. 1204 00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,000 Thanks for hanging out with us live tonight. 1205 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,040 If you like this, we will have other podcasts about Magic 1206 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,360 Gathering. In two weeks we will be talking 1207 00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:08,320 about our favorite console, or as I'm calling it, the best 1208 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,920 console ever created for video games. 1209 00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:15,720 Is my PCA console? No, then I have nothing to talk 1210 00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:17,400 about. That's a lie. 1211 00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,640 That's a lie. So come hang out with us in two 1212 00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:23,760 weeks where we're going to talk about the best console ever 1213 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,760 made, the games that were on that system, how it influenced 1214 00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:31,400 us and where we're at today because of those consoles. 1215 00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,520 So come hang out with us. Boy do I have a a pick for that. 1216 00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:38,160 Love it. Absolutely love it. 1217 00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:40,120 Jesse, thanks again for hanging out. 1218 00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,760 This is always fun talking about Magic Gathering. 1219 00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:44,560 Thank you chat for hanging out live. 1220 00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:50,120 If you like this podcast, we have 13 other ones behind this 1221 00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:53,080 for you to listen to. We've been doing it that long. 1222 00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:58,080 We've been podcasting for over a year and yeah, I have moved us 1223 00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:02,000 into Season 2. I'm calling Last Podcast. 1224 01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:03,880 Each year is a season. Season 2. 1225 01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,640 Nice. So that that's where we're at. 1226 01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:08,480 We've got a bunch of these. We're going to keep it up. 1227 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,880 The volume is going to increase this year because Jesse and I 1228 01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,880 have a lot to talk about. My throat is sore, so I'm going 1229 01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,000 to call it a night here. Thanks for hanging out. 1230 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,160 Be awesome out there and we'll see you next time.