Welcome to the Gamer Dad podcast, where we talk about all
things Magic the Gathering and gaming.
We strive to make things fun, fit into our busy lives,
families, keep things casual, and show you how you can too.
I am Gamer Dad Bob, a 30 year Magic the Gathering veteran who
has played formats from legacy to standard to Commander.
Tonight we're going to talk about Magic, and I'm going to
tell you I really love the bracket system.
Yeah, I really do, even though it needs some work.
We'll, we'll, we'll hash that out tonight.
I'm an IT manager, lover of sports, role-playing games.
Claire Obscure, 30 Expedition 33 is game of the year, maybe game
of the last 10 years. I'm a father of a 5 year old who
is fuelled by cheese. This kid has been eating pizzas
every night for dinner. It's.
I don't. Know it never gets better and
I'm Jesse Hoagy. I'm also a 30 year Magic
Gathering veteran. I'm also a gamer.
I'm a two time girl dad and I dislike the bracket system so
this should be fun. Yeah, this is this is going to
be interesting because Jesse's going to be like, arguing
against my points, which is always makes for good, good
radio. Right.
Tonight, we're going to address the elephant in the room.
Yes, You, you behind the tree. I can see you, dude, you suck at
hiding, trying to ambush us. Oh, man, That that is an MTG
deep cut, by the way. I I hope you guys get that.
Jesse. You know what card that is?
I do not. It's elephant ambush.
I didn't you? I feel like we've played that or
something. I think we got it in the mystery
booster or the Dominaria. It's like the art is the
elephant hiding behind like the skinny tree.
Listen, so we've had some time to digest these new commander
brackets for for like the last month and and it's been a good
start and it's been a little bumpy still.
We, we have some concrete things and and we can start having that
rule 0 discussion that we we know and love.
We know what to expect from a bracket one and two deck.
We we know what bracket 4 is. I just.
Get bracket 3 Bob. We we we know what bracket 5 is.
Bracket 5 is CEDH. Three bracket 3.
Right, three dealer. We're talking about bracket 3,
right? Listen, Bracket 3 is a thing.
It's not perfect, but tonight we're here to talk about bracket
3 and what can be done to improve upon this still in beta.
I think this is an important distinction too, is that the
bracket system is still in beta. So and also thanks for humoring
us with our bit here. You know, we we had to start out
something interesting. So to me, my deck is A7 and my
deck is a three sounds strikingly similar this day and
age. So we're going to go over some
reasons why they sound the same, what we do to improve upon and
what we believe is the like the biggest bracket.
So I think bracket 3 is gigantic as far as the range of how you
can build it and everything between min maxing, between game
changers, mana bases, infinite combos, which are allowed in
this bracket by the way, you know.
So we're going to give some constructive criticism, we're
going to give some suggestions. Jesse's going to be distracted
by his dog all night. Think.
She's got something I can't tell.
It's going to be a good one and listen, it's sponsored by you
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live video replays. So, Jesse, do mana bases matter
in these brackets? I think I think mana bases
matter more than game changers do.
I think mana bases are the game changers.
They are the actual true game changers of the format, Like
single cards. No, the mana bases are it
because like if you have someone who has all of their stuff
coming out turn one turn 2, turn 3 and you're stuck on either tap
lands or single basic lands or whatever, they're going to have
so much more of an advantage than you are.
Because I mean, say you have, I don't know, like a come into
play tapped land. You pass the turn.
Someone has a non coming to play like an actual dual land, like a
OG dual land and then they tap that and they cast soaring and
then they cast arcane Signet. How far behind are you?
You're you're insanely behind now.
You mean it's not even close? That we people say, oh, well,
you if you could, you could do that with a basic land too, but
you can do it with a basic land. But if you have something that
comes into play untapped and you have access to your mana that
much quicker, you have access to casting your spells that much
quicker and you're that much more ahead.
Because if you if you're that far ahead and you have the mana
untapped ready to go, you can counter stuff, you can remove
stuff, you can do so much more than the person who's just
coming into place apps and there's so now that's that's
what makes the pre cons. So I don't say so bad, but so
much worse. And that's whenever you
customize, recount or upgrade it.
You're definitely starting with the mana base for sure.
The. First thing you touch.
The tap lands are such a tempo loss and and you know, to your
point, you can run them in any bracket and and they build the
pre cons. Well, obviously, because the
value they're not going to be printing shocks in these pre
cons, They're not going to be printing dual lands.
They're barely printing pain lands in these pre cons so that
the lands that come in untapped, the tap for multiple colors.
So if I'm running dual lands in my bracket, three, I'm not the
same as someone running tap lands snarls multiple typings
for fetches is a big deal. You're not in the same league
when you're when you're doing that.
So mana bases are extraordinarily important, and
they do matter, and they're not addressed whatsoever in the
bracket system from 1:00 to 5:00.
No, nobody cares outside of a couple game changers.
That what we'll get into that right choice of fetches also
matters for tempo. A fabled passage is not the same
as an Arid Mesa. No, it's just not.
You know there there's no restriction in any bracket.
So if we're going to base the power of bracket one and two on
pre cons, we need to consider how mana bases are constructed
as well. And maybe we need to think about
restricting what's in a bracket. Three mana base even.
Maybe because like I'm trying to think of what you could do with
mana bases that could like would you put mana like certain cards
in the game changer list? I mean I, I think the game
channel list should go away, but I mean bracket, if you keep the
bracket list in the way it is, which I don't think you should,
but then come into play tapped lands are really 1-2 and three.
Anything that's untapped like AOG dual or whatever or shock
automatically should make your your deck a bracket for.
And we're, we're specifically talking about dual lands, right?
We, I mean basics. You, you just said basics are
basics. And a good basics, a good deck
builder is going to run enough basics because by the way, you
should be running land destruction at worst.
Run Demolition Field please, Because there are too many
people that run away with games because their Deus Cradle went
off, because their, say, Sarah Sanctum went off, because their
Cabal coffers went off. You know that there's plenty of
lands that that deserve to be blown up, and that's a reason to
run them. Yeah, because if if you don't,
then like anybody who plays Arena has, if they've never run
basics and you like you said you get demo field or whatever basic
check, you get nothing. Greedy mana bases can be
punished. I've seen a lot of discourse on
whether they should or should not be punished.
You know, with cards like back to basics or ruination, things
like that that only punish for non basics help.
Look at blood moon. I mean and and and that falls
under mass land denial. It's weird so.
Like land denial. Like I have a love hate
relationship. Mostly hate with that type of
thing 'cause like, it stops you from playing your game, but at
the same time, if you don't have basics and you don't have
answers to someone removing one of your things, then that's kind
of your own fault, right? And then if you look at the
blood moon, if you don't have enchantment removal, that's your
fault. You know, and we continue to
talk more and more in our pot alone about the importance of
just interaction and whether that's artifact removal,
enchantment removal, land destruction of some kind,
sweepers, creature removal. That kind of interaction is
important because someone can run away with a game or lock
someone out entirely. Good example a Wednesday night,
you know, I played a ground seal turn 2 against a graveyard deck
with no enchantment removal and it it, it just, it didn't go
well. You know, I I shut that deck
down and drew 2 cards off of it because it can trips when it
draws and I had sif this out. So like just a simple 2 drop
shut down an entire strategy. So that's why interactions
really important there. But you know, with the mana
bases, I think we need to talk about some kind of building
restrictions up through bracket 3 on mana bases if we're aiming
to slow the brackets down to make them more casual.
In particular, bracket 3, because it's so wide, you know,
someone with an optimized mana base in bracket three, your
haves and have nots, if you will, can really, you know, go
crazy as opposed to someone who just simply doesn't spend the
money on the duels, hasn't proxied dual lands, hasn't
considered that in their build. Because I mean, a lot of people
when they brew decks, they look at them and it's like, this is
what I have, this is what's behind me for my deck brewing.
I'm not necessarily thinking outside of the box, what do we
have and everything else. So, you know, we got to start
thinking about mana bases in bracket three, bracket four
first. Let it go The first thing I do
whenever I I like. So I want to build this
commander deck. The first thing it does,
obviously I select the command that I want to build and then I
do the mana. Do you really This is the actual
this I know this is the mana I want like these are the dual
lands and these are this is like the non basics that I want 100%
like I pick the most optimal colors for whatever commander I
have Yep, and then I pick the utility lands like your roads
passages, your Kazakh Wolfron, your.
Reliquary Towers. Reliquary.
Towers. Yep, those type of thing.
And then the rest of the deck comes together after the mana
base is started. Obviously I'm not going to have
the mana base done until the rest of the deck is done, so
yeah. You got to know how many color
pips and everything else you need to start.
With these lands are always going to go in a commander deck
with these colors and then I proxy them because I'm not going
to pay a thousand $2000 for dual land.
But I also don't let that hold me back.
Some people do let that hold them back.
Right. And that's that's what I'm
saying like. And they suffer.
If I'm building from stuff only behind me, I'm going to struggle
here. You know, I discovered that I
have check lands from like sets that I forgot that I had.
So it's very interesting there. Yeah, I'm I'm taking I took
apart I think 6 decks tonight because I'm taking all my pre
cons apart. I have tons of lands now, but
they're all coming to play tap lands, like not none of them are
good ones and they that's all the pre cons are.
You know, a lot of people get started with so they don't even
I mean, I'm I'm sure people will know that there's better lands
out there, right? But either they don't have the
money to it or they don't have the time to like look into it.
And then when they run into someone at their local game
store or or whatever and they see what is that?
How much is that going to cost me?
Right? It feels bad, just like any
other game changer that you see. It's going to feel bad.
It, it can, it can. And we'll definitely talk a lot
about the game changers because, you know, realistically, Jesse
and I could probably have a whole podcast analyzing every
single game changer. There's like 61 of them now or
something like that. And, and, and by the way, my
argument is that there should be more that are called out as
that, at which point it's like, well, are, are there any game
changers at all? Which we will touch on tonight,
you know, but but they can't print good mana bases in the
commander decks because it's the equivalent of it's the
equivalent of printing money. But additionally, I I mean
they're going to raise the price up and nobody's going to buy
their commander pre cons. They're just they're just not.
Although people are buying the Final Fantasy once, no matter
what the price is, That's a. Different.
And that's all a choice by Wizards.
They could choose to print better lands and they could
choose to keep the price low. Yeah, but it doesn't make them
money. It's all about money.
It all comes down to the money. Because now you do have game
changers in some of these pre cons yes non land ones I mean.
Yes. So.
Can you imagine gay is cradle in your latest pre con?
God, have at it. I mean, I took apart that that
you'd respect today and the burgeoning was in there.
That's a $40 card. Burgeoning's great.
So there are good cards in there, they just choose not to
print them. Just like if you watch the
professor's when he writes cigarette layers or writes these
commander decks. I guarantee if you go look in
the past and write them all and kind of put them on a graph,
it's all going down. Sure sure.
I I mean if you look at some of the older decks I think seaborne
muse made its way into some of the pre cons as well.
It was in I think I want to say it was in the Tarkare
Dragonstorm 1. I feel like it was just recently
thrown in a commander deck. So it's a deliberate choice by
by Wizards and by Wizards, I mean by Hasbro really to not
print these high higher value lands because they don't want to
have the price go down. And the other thing that that
probably as far as mana base and building, that's kind of a
hidden mana base building thing to talk about is, is your your
mana positive artifacts. And I'm, I'm looking at you soul
ring. You're you're still a problem.
A glaring like if they they have other cards in these pre cons
that are game changers so why not put soul ring in there?
It's not. Why not?
Call Soul Ring a game changer. Like the price won't be
affected. And additionally, the way that
they're going with these, they don't want to do that because
their argument is that all pre cons are bracket too.
That's right. Some of them have game changers
in them. So, so make that make sense.
Look, this is, this is still very much a draft.
And I, I think I would be extraordinarily surprised if the
commander Rules Committee is not self aware that they're saying
that pre cons are bracket 2 and they're printing game changers
and they just, they, they can't be that tone deaf.
They're not. They probably have to work
around that. And additionally, we talked
about this what in September, They're, they're unfortunately
under wizard's thumb now. Which is under Hasbro's thumb.
Yeah, so they, they I. Still say if if Wizards was
separate, a separate entity and not owned by Hasbro so much,
this wouldn't happen. You got to wonder, you really
do. I mean, all these corporations,
no matter how big or how small, they still, their aim is still
to make money, to be more profitable every year.
You know, even the, the company that I work for, it's only 500
people, but their, their goal every year is to be more
profitable. And we're a not-for-profit, but
we still have to take more money in every year.
Overhead is more expensive, salaries are more expensive,
cost of living is more expensive.
So I don't know that's that's a weird spot.
Another thing that I have a problem with in bracket 3 is is
how much min maxing is available to bracket 3 decks and what do I
mean by that? Well, I could build a bracket
three deck with no game changers and it's still very much a
bracket three deck because of other factors that are required
here. So let's let me pull this up
here. I I have the graphic.
So another factor that makes bracket three bracket 3 is that
it's allowed to have late Game 2 card infinite combos.
OK, I don't have to have any game changers for that
necessarily. And also there is no cap on
tutors in bracket 3. So I could min Max and be like
well, I'm running, you know, 10 tutors and hit my late game
infinite convo consistently, but it's only a bracket three guys.
Don't worry about it. There's no game changers in this
deck or I'm only running my three-game changers in this deck
that I can tutor for consistently without any
hesitation and not worry about it whatsoever.
I just don't like it. I I don't like that at all.
I think tutors should be limited in bracket three.
I think going even crazier here I think after some contemplation
conversation this week, my hot take is bracket 3 is no place
for infinite combos. No or tutors in my opinion.
You know, we, we, this pod gamer gamer dad pod we, we stress the
importance of your deck building and how it's OK to have powerful
cards in your decks. In particular, Bracket 3 is a
really fun place to do that if it's one of the 99.
That variance is what makes things interesting and exciting.
Again, for the love of God, play removal.
But like that variance, it's what makes things exciting.
When I draw the nuts, it happened naturally, not because
I I willed it with all of these tutors that I have in my deck,
because for every tutor that's in your deck, it's essentially
another copy of your game-winning strategy for every
creature tutor, worldly tutor, Sylvan tutor, it's a second and
third crater hoof behemoth for all of my token strategy, you
know, and it just UPS the odds of drawing it at that point as
opposed to what, 1 of 99? You know, a powerful deck is
definitely going to remain powerful if you're min maxing
it. And then when you're in a rule 0
conversation, you're like, I don't know, I took out a game
changer. It's got a late game comp 2 card
combo, but it's, it's, it's, you know, it's a 3.
Is it really? No, that's not.
That's not a three. So that's not a three at all.
Jesse, you kind of segwayed really nicely into our next
topic here is is in you said it actually any amount of tutors
feels kind of off in bracket 3. Yeah, because it eliminates the
variance of the one of 99 and that is reserved for higher
powered decks that are not bracket 3.
It's not a social deck. Bracket 3 to me is a really fun
space that's possible for people to build stronger strategies to
experiment with interesting strategies, combos, combinations
of creatures, enchantments, all kinds of fun stuff without the
infinite kill kind of thing. It makes the board state
interesting. It makes people think about
using what little interaction players are packing these days
that, you know, make them think about and choose what's
important to them. You know, I had to decide
between like an ocelot pride, a souls attendant or something
and, and some other nonsense in a board state.
And I was like, the cat's got to go, but holy crap, I'd like to
blow up everything, you know, And, and I wasn't tutoring for a
sweeper. I wasn't tutoring for a
farewell. I had to work with what I had
and, and it made things interesting and it, and it
slowed down the, the deck that was doing its thing and we were
successful there. And that deck was not running
tutors. It popped off naturally.
It's pretty. It's pretty fun to see that.
See in bracket three, if you shuffle up and play 3 different
games it should be 3 different games.
It shouldn't be the same thing every time because you have
tutors to do the same thing. And if you again if you have a
natural thing like this. Wasn't commander, but in our
sealed last week I naturally got Sylvan Library every single
game. Yep, I naturally removed it one
game and I won that game. So you should be able to have
three different games when you play through different times,
not having to Oh well, he's playing this deck, so this is
going to happen on this turn because the computer for it.
Yep. Yeah, and in bracket three, you
know, deck should not be consistently winning by turn 5
or 6. I'm sorry, that's just not it.
It doesn't jive for me, you know?
So that's. How my?
Miriam deck. My Miriam deck is a category.
It's a hurricane. It's a category.
It's a strong three to a four because it routinely wins
quickly, but not always the same way.
Right. But it's just everything
together makes it that way. I don't think there might even
be a game changer in that. I don't know off the top of my
head. It's your deck now, but to that
point again, I mean bracket 3 doesn't need game changers
necessarily at all to be strong. No, I'm looking because now I'm
curious. I feel like there isn't.
I'll be wrong, I guarantee I'll be wrong, but I feel like there
isn't. OK, so back to the infinite
combos, and we talked about this a little.
Bit no, I was wrong. There's one second craft.
That's it. Well.
That's it. It.
Does have a worldly tutor? Worldly tutor doesn't tutor for
Cyclonic rift. Nope.
But how many times have you seen
me cast Worldly Tutor? I don't think you've hit it.
I haven't. How many times is it going to be
cast rift once? Once and it wasn't overloaded.
Nope, and no other game changers in that deck.
I don't think Bracket 3 is a place for infinite combos.
I'm I'm going to, I'm going to climb up on that hill and die on
it at this point. Based on experience, based on
conversation, based on holy crap, the way that we lost on
Wednesday night to to a carrot or deck that and and and here's
the crazy thing, Jesse, you didn't witness this again
because you were really unwell. Matt and our pod ended up
naturally drawing a viscera sear in a protein Hulk and he ramped
into the Hulk by turn 4. What?
Are you going to do about that? And then he didn't put her for
it. No.
It just. Happens.
And then he sacrificed it, got what he needed for his combo,
had a tutor to finish the combo. Andy ended up dropping an even
mind sensor so Matt could only search the top 4 cards of his
library and he hit the last combo piece that he needed off
the top. See that like?
That there was a tutor involved, that's cool, but it's also
frustrating as hell. Yeah, because there was a tutor
involved. Like take the tutor out of the
picture. What would have happened?
He. He would have been, he would
have been on a different strategy.
He definitely would have been on a different strategy.
And we know Carridor has a lot of different lines of play and
strategies that that that that deck can go the long game or it
can win out of nowhere. I think that's one of the
interesting things about that deck.
It's it's one of my own pet decks because I helped build it.
You know, does it need the infinite combo Strat?
Probably not. That might be better used in
another way if if bracket three were to change and it would
still be an interesting and fun game.
I mean, imagine if he did just get the protein Hulk and got
just pure value out of it, You know, instead of combo pieces.
But nobody plays protein Hulk to not get combo pieces.
That's that's the thing. And that's another conversation
about a card that probably needs to get back in the box and be
banned, right? I don't I don't see a place for
Protein Hulk because it never ends well.
No, I don't think it's ever end well since I've been playing and
since I played against it. I played in my Marin deck and it
gets combo pieces. It's the same thing.
Yes, you can stop that combo with interaction.
Nobody had it at the time. It was turn 5:00 and 6:00.
We were all tapped out because we were trying to, you know, get
into the down board. Step three of the game.
Yeah, yeah, there was some major luck and variance there,
obviously, and that's important to acknowledge.
But bracket three shouldn't end on turn 6.
It felt bad for everyone. Now, in the same breath, we're
like, all right, scoop up, play another game.
Yeah. I mean, it was, it wasn't even
9:30. We started at 8:30.
So, you know, that was that was nice.
The second game went long. It was fun.
It ended in a funny way because Matt goofed up.
We all kind of just scooped up after he did his thing because
it's like, oh, you just, Bob just wins because you goofed up.
Yeah. OK, cool.
That was fun. Have a good night.
Yeah, it was. It was pretty funny.
But games like that happen. Dex can't pop off in bracket
three naturally. That's why there's variance.
That's why there's luck. It exists.
Do we need to help things along with an infinite combo?
I'm not feeling it anymore. I'm just not all right.
So we're reaching a midway point at least as we put in our notes
and and Jesse and I want to try a new thing.
We're going to try Guess the Card and it's going to be a game
of 20 questions, except it's going to be 10 questions.
I'll say 10. I think it's 10.
Jesse, I'm going to go first with your card.
So I have your card. It's on my screen right now.
You have 10 questions to narrow it down and I'll give you the
11th for the actual guess if you want to if, if we get that.
Far. OK, so I envision this as like
yes or no question. Yes or no is the best way you
can do it. Yep.
So first question, is it a creature?
Yes. Second question, is it multi
colored? No.
OK. Third question, does it cost
more than five CMC? No.
So single colored creature cost less than 5.
Correct, that was your 4th question.
Hey, that wasn't a question. Single colored creature cost
less than 5. Does it have multiple types?
No, So it is a single typed creature.
Oh man, that's four. This is where it gets hard
because there's so many that I can think of.
I'm trying to think of what things you can answer.
Is it legendary? No.
It's not legendary. OK, so we have creature single
colored cost less than 5 legendary, not a single type,
not legendary sorry. And is a single type.
Yes. Is it black?
No. Oh.
Not what I thought. OK, that's six.
So it's not black. Oh man, that's six.
I have four more, including the guests.
Is it green? Yes.
Does it cost 1? No.
Oh OK so I have two more. It's green cost less than 5.
Is it a mana dork? No.
Oh. One more is it a game changer?
No. OK, so that goes my all my ideas
are out of the out of the out of the out of the questions I have.
One do you? Do you want a hint?
It's up to you. I will throw you a bone here and
give you a hint. Jesse, this is one of your
favorite cards ever printed. And it's green.
Oh man, I hold on. I see the picture in my head.
But oh do you were the first. I can't remember the first part
of it. Questing Beast.
No. Same man of course though.
Thought it was 4. That's my guess.
Was questing beast. OK, it's avenge Vine.
Yes, Jesus Christ, your turn. That was good.
OK, let's get this started. Is this card a permanent?
Yes. Is it a creature?
Yes. I liked your legendary question.
Is it legendary? No.
Is it an artifact creature?
No. OK, Is this creature multicolor?
No. Is this creature blue?
No 6 See a four left. So mono color creature non
legendary. Is this creature converted
manacost 4 or less? No.
Big, big boy. OK, yeah, and it's mono color,
so it's not in a multi color. Is this creature a commander
staple? Like is it in like every
commander deck that you would play it in?
Yes. Yes, Oh my gosh, it's still
hard. To left.
I have two left. I don't even know what color
this thing is. Is this I've CMC or in a lot of
it's not blue is it? Would it fall under the nya
Shard? Is it white, green or red?
It falls within those three colors, one left plus the guess
itself. Is it green?
Yes, it's crater Hoof behemoth. Yes it is.
Yes, it is. We both picked a green card.
That's great. I know, right?
That's great. That was that's where I was
thinking it was going at that point.
Especially when you're like, it's in a lot of commander
decks. Yeah.
And is in those type of strategies, but that there's so
many of those strategies out. There no, not every green Jack
green deck is jamming a hoof in it just because, because you a
lot. Sometimes you're just not going
to get value out of it even after like a board sweep or
something. That creator who feels really
bad in your hand at that point. Just like after what super gay
is credo feels really bad. Yep, Yep.
All right. So if I mean, if you guys like
that, let us know in the comments, we can pick that up
again that the 10 questions for our next Magic podcast and we'll
do that again. Maybe we'll go a little bit more
difficult for each other or not that that felt that felt pretty
good as far as difficulty goes. And and those questions run out
freaking fast. Yeah.
So maybe 10, I don't know if 10 is too little, I don't know,
maybe have like a lifeline or something. 12 questions.
Yeah, something right. Like I'm just so just if it is,
I guess it is a commander's staple.
Like I'm looking to see which one.
My green decks, I don't have that many.
I think I have three that run it and I have 123-4567 green decks
and three of them running. OK.
So I I mean that's almost 50%. So yeah, I would say it's a
stable. It's it's a everybody knows
crater hoof behemoth too. So that's that's great.
All right, jumping back into our topics, let's talk a little bit
about game changers. The the the elephant ambush in
the room here, especially with Jesse and I and and other people
in our pod have strong feelings about game Changers.
Joe in particular, really, really strong feelings about
game changers. So my argument for bracket 3 and
I know we've just talked about powering it down with bad, you
know, worse mana bases, no infinite combos, no tutors,
right? We just talked about powering
things down. I'd argue that it needs to allow
for more game changers. Here's my.
Logic. OK, go ahead.
OK. Here's my logic.
There is no cap on Game Changers in bracket 4.
You go from only three to powering up your bracket three
deck. In the bracket four with it's
the wild Wild West. You are walking out your front
door to trench warfare with every imaginable bracket game
changer, mortars flying over your head and you're going,
guys, I just have three-game changers.
What? What do I need to do here or
with? Will Smith in a cowboy hat for
doing Wild Wild West. You know, and Lovelace is in his
wheelchair and Kenneth Branagh has the weird beard mustache
thing. So I saw that movie in Drive in
theaters 100 years ago when it came out.
Yeah. Yeah.
It was very popular when I was in high school because of the
Will Smith songs and everything with.
Wild, Wild West. I'd argue that we need to expand
the list of game changers. And for example, I mean I talked
about it earlier, we're missing some lands lands name changers
list. Like why is Cabal coffers not a
game changer? That card is just as easy to
abuse as a gay, as cradle, as a Sarah Sanctum.
Yep. I mean, werborg exists.
Nick those Why is that not a game changer?
Bingo. Why is Nick those not a game
changer? That card is easy to abuse.
It just as easy to abuse as gay as Cradle in my opinion.
Frexing Tower, I know you're not thinking that like a two mana
jump is is really good, but in a deck that wants to sacrifice
creatures, you're going mana positive off of a Phrexian tower
with an instant speed sacrifice capability.
I mean, I shut down Matt's friggin light pause phasing deck
with a Phrexian tower and tokens and a great pack, but Phrexian
Tower is really good. It's really strong.
It's one land, 2 mana, things like that need to be considered.
Yeah, flexing tower. Flexing tower is free to to
play. You know, it doesn't even, it's,
it's super mana positive. All lands are mana positive.
This is double positive. I just think more game changers
need to be included. And additionally, if you look at
bracket two to three, we go from zero to only 30 to only three
and we're printing game changers in bracket 2.
Make that make sense Again, I'm I'm going to hit on that.
You're you're putting them in pre cons now, so by default with
the last update in April your whole brackets are broken
because pre cons supposed to be bracket 2 and now they have game
changers therefore they're bracket 3.
That's right. That's right.
And and listen, it's OK. They probably will acknowledge
that if they haven't already. If they have, I've missed it.
And again, that's that's fine. And you know, I, I don't want
this podcast to sound like, Oh my God, this is terrible.
These are our critiques of everything of a beta system that
is still very much in, in draft phase.
And they're going to be working on it and continuing to improve
upon it and everything, you know, and like we always apply
to things. This is, this is just our little
world and our observations and that's all we can do.
You know, I'm not a CEDH player. I can't speak to bracket 5 at
all. I have no intention of Speaking
of bracket 5 at all. That's just not for me.
Yeah, we live in 234 as of now. I still want you guys to build
some one decks so we can play them, but that's a different
story all I mean. Wouldn't some of our Pendragon
decks now that that is a recognized format on
mockfield.com by the way? Yes.
Wouldn't those be somewhat 1/2? I mean, they are.
I mean, I don't know my my my current deck I would not say is
A1. It's more of a three I think.
Well, time out. You're not running enchantment
removal. Nope on that out the hard way.
So I I mean, but I'm enjoying for what it's worth, the lower
powered popper type decks and everything as well for for those
same reasons. And the variance in those games
keeps things so fun. Exciting.
Say I cast this and they're like, what does that do?
What is that? I've never seen that before.
Like that that card that like buffed and then when it died,
you got like A32L Drazi horror thing.
Like I've never seen that card in my life.
And and and that's what makes that fun and interesting, but
like game changers alone as they are today, don't normally feel
game changing. Sometimes, like there are some
cards like Crater Hoof Behemoth like we talked about that can
drop and I don't. Is that even a game changer?
What is what crater hoof? Crater Hoof.
No, it's not. It's not.
It's I have a whole note section here at the end says why is Hoof
not a game changer? It's literally on the newts, the
newts, the newts. The crater Newts on the newts.
Why not? Hoof, Yeah.
I mean Crater Hoof does come down and can just end games.
It's a game changer, that is. Literally.
Changes the game. Very definition of a game
changer. That kind of card literally
changes the game from from going to over.
Smothering tie doesn't do that. It does change the way that the
game is played. It most certainly does.
Like my notes, I say to fairest protection is a one time thing.
If it if to the point where you cast a protect T protection.
I put T protection because I want to spell the whole thing T.
Pro. If that changes the game, the
game is already at the end. Where is a creative behemoth can
take you from. I have 5 little 1 ones or 10
little 1 ones to I'm swinging for over 100.
Game, Yeah. So Hoof belongs more on the game
changers list than to fairest protection does.
Game changers can change the game when drawn under the right
circumstances, but they are not always like, does a wristic
study change the game? It changes how we play it.
And if you're a good player, you're going to pay the one
where you can. And, and sometimes after turn
345, wristic study gets worse and worse and worse for the
person who cast it because they're paying the tax.
They can afford the tax and you're not relying on that tempo
gain of of the card draw and everything.
Did that change the game? Yes.
Was it? You know, I want to think of
game changers as game Breakers cards.
Yeah. Like break the game open.
Or shards is not a game changer. Not in the wrong deck for sure.
That's the other thing I'm actually.
I'm playing or shards, right? I have no creatures.
I'm not casting creatures. You have no enchantments.
What is it doing? But it's a game changer because
it's in your deck, Jesse, regardless of what the meta game
is that this is scratching it. I have a game as Cradle, it's a
game changer when I have creatures out.
But say I'm playing a whole bunch of board wipes, it's not a
game changer anymore. It's a dead card.
Contextual game changers would be really hard to mandate in in
a bracket system and everything. But I think context matters here
because, and that's where that Rule 0 conversation that we talk
about is so important, right? I can rely heavily on Crop
rotation hitting a Gaze Cradle in my deck and it's token heavy.
I'm going to generate a ton of mana and oh by the way, I have
two infinite combos that I can feed off of this game's Cradle.
And by the way, everything that I just said is in bracket three.
That's game breaking. It is, it just shouldn't exist.
I don't think game should just exist at all.
I'm not sure they need to exist. Because everything.
Point of there should be more, in which case why?
Yeah, in in context everything can be game changer.
It sure can. Depending on the right deck by
the right pilot in the right board state, everything is a
game. Changer.
Highly synergistic decks play game changers regardless of
whether they're on the list or not.
Like we saw a Forgotten Ancient get out of control in the right
deck because it just got counters and it popped us all
and that that's not a game changer.
That card is is not broken by any stretch.
Butcher of Malachar. Not a game changer.
Not a game changer, but look what it does.
It can shut things down just like a good grave pact or
something, you know? Yeah, those aren't game changers
though. Those things can happen.
That then becomes the puzzle for the table to solve.
And if you don't Path to Exile the Butcher of Malik here, and
you Path to Exile one of Bob's cards instead like a doofus,
he's never gonna. Jesse wins the game.
He's never going to forget that. It happens.
It just so I want to start us thinking about things as cards
that can break the game open and maybe those should really truly
be considered as your game changers.
Those cards that are so swingy, Ellis Norton, mother of machines
can actually just break the game.
Yeah, it dies to removal. It does.
You guys packing a lot of removal out there.
Are your decks packing 15 plus interactions in your decks?
I'm not your. CADH.
I'm not in every deck. My bracket fours are packing 15
plus cards that interact with other cards.
My bracket 3 sure aren't. Nope.
Mommy really. Mommy really stalls out games in
bracket. I just I just upgraded brash and
torrents to have 11 plus removal and interaction to both of them
now. It matters.
It does. And that context also matters in
bracket 3 if you're not building your bracket three deck to be
hyper competitive because let's, let's, let's be honest, let's
call spade spade here. Bracket 3 is still a social
bracket in my opinion. It's still that feel things out.
Punch counterpunch, play the game out, you're looking at 10
turns and the game's over, give or take.
Is that a place to just drop an Elish Norn Mother of Machines
turn 4 and shut down every ETB effect and double your own that?
That's pretty rough. It could come down even earlier
if you luck sack that soul ring. Soul ring into an arcane signet
turn 2. Elish norn possibly?
Sounds great. You know, there there are cars
that impact the board the second they come down and resolve.
You know, I'd argue that Bolas's Citadel could do that.
Also, you're playing cards paying you 40 life.
Necropotence Is necropotence a game changer?
No, it should as hell. I think it actually I think it
was added. Did it get added?
OK? But like Joe was out there
going, why is this not a game changer?
That card warps the game the second it hits the board.
Jesse's looking it up, I can tell.
Yes, it was just added OK in April.
So they they acknowledged that and, and by that criteria, I
think is what we should be looking at Game changers or have
none at all to Jesse's point. Now what?
What's the new Necro Potence that was just printed?
Necro. Dominance.
Yeah, that's not in the game changer list.
That should be like why is Imperial Seal in the game
changer list? Because it's a vamp tutor.
Vamp tutor's on there, yeah. Oh, so it's not?
Is Imperial Seer an instant also?
Imperial Seal I think is a sorcery, isn't?
It maybe that's their that one actually, that's right.
That's right. A1 mana tutor for anything in
two life, regardless of whether it's an instant or a sorcery.
Sorcery. It's a sorcery.
So that's their logic. It's not an instant like vamp
tutor. Yeah, it's a sorcery.
Awesome. No, it's on there.
It's on the game changer list. Oh, OK.
That's a sorcery. We can build the decks we want,
but you know, even with the unintended hypocrisy of bracket
3 having game changers when some pre cons come with them, you
know it presents a problem for the spirit of the bracket.
And as I said, I'm looking at you soul ring.
Those mana positive artifacts that are being printed in every
friggin deck when you build your deck.
All right, command tower, Arcane, Cygnus Soul ring, 96
more cards, you know, at what point are they going to keep
printing stuff? And, and Gavin was literally
talking about this on Thursday during like a surprise live
stream when he was just answering questions.
Is that that as, as Wizards is printing more cards, they are
doing their damnedest not to print a card that becomes part
of that four cards that you build every commander deck with.
He admitted that Arcane Signet was a was a mistake.
They built it for Brawl and forgot about commander.
That is a downright lie. That's what he said.
That is a downright lie. How long, how long?
How long has Arcane Singer been out for?
They built it for Brawl, allegedly.
I do not believe that for one bit.
So Arcane Signet was first printed in Really Throne of L
drain. They built it for Brawl.
I'm yeah they every set since and I would argue that's more
fair than Soul Ring is. It is.
It's not man of positive, it's 2 for one.
Yeah. Arcane Cygnets of perfectly fine
card. The problem is that every deck
has it in it, although my mono colored decks aren't running it
even though it's technically ramp like.
I'd rather have a card doing something else in my mono
colored decks to an extent. Unless there's an artifact sub
theme and then which case? Designed to help accelerate and
facilitate that brand new Magic format in 2019.
Bob knows what he's talking about sometimes here.
That's I can't. I thought it was older than
that. It's everywhere.
It's hard to believe that's the origin of Arcane Signet, but
that's just where we're. At that's a mistake, but Soul
Ring isn't, Yeah. I mean, that's the thing.
It's. In alpha, so it can't be or beta
so it can't be a mistake. It's.
Soul Ring is the mascot of Commander.
Sure is. It's it's the mascot of
commander. Everything revolves around soul
ring. I can't wait till Holi gets my
my emotes going with my no soul ring emotes because that's going
to be really funny. I hate the card and and yet I
I'm playing it in my deck so I've gotten rid of soul Talisman
because you guys refuse to jump on with the soul Talisman.
I'm not doing that. Right, because you can.
You're allowed to play Soul Ring.
You know it's. It's we want to be more
competitive. Soul Ring will will do that.
So Jesse, you, you have an interesting take here that I'm
just going to say upfront I disagree with, but let's hear
it. Which which one?
Your solution? So my.
Solution. Jesse solved it by the way.
My solution is going back to what it was before 10 brackets
make it official because before let's there wasn't an official
no system and the way things were before is there is A1 to a
10. So to me, one through 4
brackets, one through 4 are your precons and your upgraded
precons. So like I take Idris, I upgrade
it with some better lands. It lands in three or four.
You take Pendragon stuff, it's going to be in a one through a
four. You have one to three-game
changers in a brackets, one through 4.
Now this is. I also think Game Changer should
be eliminated but keep them in. Right, right.
Putting something in writing, you're suggesting one to
three-game changers there? Yep.
If if we're going to acknowledge that they're not going away, by
the way, they're not going away. They're not That's that's
something that that committee created, they're very proud of.
That's not going away. So you got, now obviously it's
there's 10 so you can't slit it into perfect threes, but you
have your one through 4, your beginner, your fun, you know
those type of things. Bracket 5 through 7 are your
more powerful decks that have combos and they have unlimited
game changers. 5 through 7. That's in my opinion. 5 through
7 isn't your sweet spot. So you take bracket 3 and that
becomes 5-6 and seven. OK, so you have 8, my decks is
7. Yep you have and then you have
again unlimited game changers. You have 8-9 and ten.
That is your what I call pre CDH and your tournament CDH decks.
So that's your degenerate infinite combo, all kinds of
tutor stuff. And 8-9 and 10.
To me, 8 is like you're experimenting with really
powerful things and you're getting into the point where
it's not fun for everybody. And then your nine and 10 are
the stuff I'm going to tournament and I want to win
unlimited game changers. It's it's you can't put 30 plus
years of cards into 5 buckets. You can't.
It's not possible. They're printing too many cards
to do that. Well, look at look at what
standard suffering from right now.
Yeah. And you have a format like
commander that's not rotating. It's impossible to do 5.
It's just absolutely impossible. There's no point.
Now, if you rotate it and say, you know, standard commander,
you want to call it, that is the last five years.
Historic commander is the last 15 years and traditional
commander or vintage commander is everything.
Pre DH. But you can't.
It's impossible. It has to be the one through 10.
If you want to put commander in a corner, it has to be one
through 10. Otherwise just make it a rule 0
conversation. Don't even have any of this
stuff. Have a banned list, 100% should
be a band list. Oh yeah have then have no have
no game changers, have no brackets.
Just encourage rule 0 and let the players have at it.
I can't stress enough the importance of a rule 0
conversation. And you know, you can't forget
to have that conversation because if you go into a game
with your bracket three deck and you're expecting bracket 3
gameplay and someone, you didn't have that conversation and
someone breaks out a four nice really high-powered 4 and they
they do go off, they combo off and kill the table on turn 5-6.
Your bracket 3 expectations sure as hell weren't that.
What did I do? I didn't get to do anything.
I didn't do the thing. I played some lands, I played
some spells and then I just died.
Now that happens in bracket 3 still again, we talked about
that naturally through variants and everything that's guaranteed
to happen, it's going to. Happen every single time.
Correct. It's not going to consistently
happen like it would in your eight through 10s or your
bracket 4. If, if you're working on or
you're playing in a a pod that you know is 8 through 10, you're
going to expect that. If you're in a pod that's five
through 7, maybe once every three games, that will happen.
And if you're one through 4, that should never happen.
But now it can happen as low as bracket 3.
It it definitely can as defined and and I think that's why as as
we go over things with with our bracket, three suggestions.
Break them. Break the brackets.
We need to change the way bracket 3 is because it's, it's
the middle bracket, it's the my deck is A7.
It's, it's too wide open and it needs further restrictions.
And we touched on that. But those rule conversations are
so important, so important to have.
They're more important than anything.
Level set your expectations at the beginning of the game.
Yeah, they're more important than anything.
And that, that's what makes to me, like me personally, going to
like a a local game store and playing I, it's not attractive
to me because those players aren't going to have that
conversation. No, no, it's truth be told.
They're 43 years old. That's kind of anxiety inducing,
like going to an LGS and sitting down at a table and and they're
like, well, rule conversations are stupid, brackets are stupid.
OK, thanks. Is this pod looking for
something? You know, like I don't.
I mean, hell, I had a Mother's Day thing that I went to and I
played with two people that, you know, one guy was the husband of
someone else who used to be on the pro tour and one of his
friends. And we had a little bit of a
conversation before and it was awkward because they're like,
oh, like they're saying my decks aren't.
And they were, they were right. Like their decks weren't that
powerful. Yeah.
And I'm like, I'm trying to say like I had I brought prosche
with me and this is my underpowered prosche in my
opinion. And they wanted to see it.
And I'm like, I don't know. It's not really.
As it ended, I'm assuming you won with Prosch.
Yeah, yeah. As it ended, did they go so like
that's what you were talking about?
No, they need to see it. We were, we were low on time.
So it was one of their well, you have to go OK, then I'm gonna do
this and the game. That's what I did.
I said, OK, you're you have to go.
OK, I'm gonna do that cuz I was holding it.
I was holding it back cuz I wanted the game to go longer.
I'm like, you have to go, OK, I'm gonna do this, this, this
and wipe people at the same time.
Yep. Yeah, OK, so but I tried to tell
them, you know I brought pre cons with me.
Let me put no, we want to see prosch.
I'm like, OK, you asked for it. You.
Asked for it. OK, so let's let's talk a little
bit. Let's summarize here because
we're we're we're at the end of our suggestions and
improvements. And of course, my dumbass never
actually wrote a summary to put on the end.
So we're going to go back through our notes and summarize
how we feel about these things. Meta bases, they matter for
bracket 3 Jesse. Do we allow an optimized mana
base with fetches, optimal fetches and everything Dual
Lance? No.
I agree.
Bracket three stands if we're not changing because it from.
In my solution that would be brackets 5 and up.
As it stands, bracket 3 should not have those.
They should. You can have some I think, but
not a completely optimized mana base and that's then you say,
well, which ones do you well, how many can you have?
Well, if you have three-game changes and you have 3 optimized
lands. It matters.
It matters for tempo, especially when decks are not created
equally and anything is fair game with your mana bases.
That tempo lost with a Turn 1 tap land versus a Turn 1 dual
land matters. Make make those type of lands
game changers and see how that affects it.
Because then you got to you got to choose between the game
changers that's there now and your mana base.
I guarantee everybody would do mana base.
Yeah, they would. And.
Suddenly you got four and suddenly you're bracket for
duck. Min maxing we we think that
based on what you can do in bracket three, we should have no
tutors in bracket 3. Not a single one.
And that includes creature tutors, trinket mage, Fierce
empath. A fetch land as a tutor, let's
be honest. Well, there you go.
Those kinds of things should not be hanging out in bracket three.
It makes for, as you said, the same gameplay experience every
single time, every time. And there is a place for decks
like that. It's called bracket 4:00 and
5:00. Yeah, no, you mean 8-9 and 10?
We're going to fight about this. No that that's where those
belong. Bracket 3 should be the fun wild
variance bracket where I get to play with my owerful toys but I
don't get to line them U the way I want them to.
So should we have any game changers in bracket 3?
Or should we outlaw game changers entirely and just be
smarter about things? Or should we create a different
category and scrutinize game changers a little bit more to
have what what we just discussed as game Breakers?
Cards that truly impact the game the second they hit the board.
That I kind of like that idea. There there is a skill level to
getting around a smothering tie to getting around a wristic
study Mystic Remora turn 1 is just unavoidable.
That's you're going to be not paying for mana and and they're
going to be drawing cards off it, but it's got a cumulative
upkeep. That card is not staying out
past one or two rotations. It's just not so.
Again, I I think these cards with these kinds of drawbacks
aren't truly game changers. Well, they said.
Orishards is not a game changer. Well, maybe they're game
changers, but they're not game Breakers as we call, right?
Maybe that's the category. Maybe that's how we need to be
looking at in evaluating these game changers and instead of
thinking, does this change the way the game flows?
Yeah, it does. And Orishards can definitely do
that, especially if you're playing against an enchantress
deck and a creature heavy deck. Yeah, that changes the game, but
yeah, on its own doesn't break the game wide open.
How many cards could be a game changer in the right scenario,
right? So I think changing it to game
Breakers and knocking that list down to like 5 or whatever you
would you would select. Yeah.
To make a game break. Like even then like I I mean I
guess moxes and stuff are still banned but they're not they are
game Breakers. They're mana positive artifacts.
They're fast mana. It's a big deal.
So like devil's advocate, people would say well if it's a game
breaker it's going to be banned. OK, ban it then.
Yeah, so that means get rid of Game Changers and just keep Game
Breakers and make them ban. I'm fine with that more.
Aggressive. Should be banned.
Necrotense should be banned. Infinite combos in bracket
three, yeah or nay? No, none.
Not even late game. 2 card combos?
Nope. Nope.
Games ending abruptly suck, and even through an 11:50
playthroughs, you're going to get that happening naturally.
It's just going to happen and it's still going to suck for
that table and that game and those players that you sat down
with. Even when that infinite combo
happens naturally. I just think.
Like what happens is you have your infinite combos combined
with the tutors to make it happen.
Consistently. Yeah, that's that's what makes
it not fun. And and you you can do that as
bracket 3 is written right now. Right, right.
Which is not fun. And how do you define late game?
Late game? Is it after turn 6 so I can do
it turn 7? Yeah, for like EDH or CEDH late
game is turn 3. Like, come on.
Right, so defining late game in bracket 3 is also very tricky
and it's in their definition. They call them late Game, 2 card
combos, infinite combos. That's tough.
Now what about a four, four card infinite combo?
That's not well. We still saw that on Wednesday
night. Is that a bracket 2?
That was bracket three. It was Kerador and Kerador's
Bracket 3 as built, which is insane to think there's some.
Problem if it was a one through ton.
There's some work. There's some work that needs to
be done in bracket three. No infinite combos.
Take them away. Make it a more interesting game.
Make it the I want to play with my powerful toys without the
consistency. Now this is about the variance.
We're talking about infinite combos, What about hard locks?
That's always tricky. I mean, do you have a choice to
not play against that deck? Yep.
Well then you have a choice not to play against infinite combos.
If you have a rule 0 conversation.
Hey, look at that. Goes all back to communication.
It sure does. It sure does.
I mean, that's, that's it. That's that's our our thing in a
nutshell. Take it or leave it.
We are not the authority on this.
This is again, our own little observations in our own little
world and the games that we've played and other fun things.
You know, do we expand the brackets?
Maybe, maybe Jesse's on to something.
Is it 10? Is it 5?
Is it or we're already at 5? Is it 6?
Is it 7? Where are we at?
Maybe there's room for that. Maybe people have a taste for
that, but again, we're not solving this.
This is just our our love letter to the bracket system, if you
want to call it that, our constructive criticism and
feedback that we have. It's your love lover.
It's my I'm breaking up with you letter.
We've been, we've been playing under this bracket system for a
little over a month now. And these are our observations
and, and I think they're all valid.
Whether people agree or not, that's that's a different story.
Let us know in the comments. Let us know what you're
thinking. Let us know if we're way off.
I don't care. Feed the algorithm, you know,
but but if we're on to something, start talking to your
groups about it. Talk to your pods about it.
Ask how they feel. Talk about the bracket system.
It's not going away. That's the important take away
from all of this. It's not going away much.
Time on it, It's not going to go away.
And the Game Changers aren't going away either.
As much as Jesse and I want them to, we want them to evolve into
Game Breakers. It's not going to happen.
But talk to your pods about this.
Let them know if you agree with us.
If you don't agree with us, that's cool too.
That's why Rule 0 is important. That's why these brackets exist.
And oh, by the way, one final, final thing on this.
OK, if you don't like any of this, you don't have to do it.
You're not playing in a sanctioned tournament.
You're playing tabletop Magic with your friends.
Hell, if you want to have a pod that there's no bands at all,
go. Ahead and.
Play your mox amber or not mox emerald, mox jet all that turn
1. Play your jewel Lotus again.
It doesn't matter. Who cares?
Wizards isn't going to knock your door.
Well, that's kind of a the Pinkertons did go the
Pinkertons. I was just going to say they're
not going to knock your door down because you're playing a
Jeweled Lotus with your friends, right?
It's just it's not going to happen.
It all goes back to the conversation.
Yep, have the communication. Like our pod chooses to do what
we're doing because of how long we've been doing this for.
I mean, this year alone we had a rough patch where things are
getting more powerful. We had a conversation and now
we're OK with it. Yep, Yep.
And so we we level set at the beginning of the of the days
when we're choosing our decks, right.
I'm like, I'm feeling bracket 3 today or I'm feeling bracket
four. Punch me in the face, you know,
So that's the conversation. And again, you don't have to
play by any rules. No.
I we, we've heard Pleasant Kenobi's goofy video from a few
weeks ago talking about made-up commander roles that he's heard
and there was some hysterical stuff in there that people.
Do yeah. So, and that's cool.
It's. Whatever works for your pond.
You do you, you do you. I think that's it for tonight,
Jesse. Any final thoughts from you like
as usual? As usual, I'm always right, 10
brackets is the way to go. No game changers. 10 brackets.
I disagree, and that's OK. I'll leave.
I'll leave you guys with that. Hey, thanks for listening.
Thanks for hanging out with us live tonight.
If you like this, we will have other podcasts about Magic
Gathering. In two weeks we will be talking
about our favorite console, or as I'm calling it, the best
console ever created for video games.
Is my PCA console? No, then I have nothing to talk
about. That's a lie.
So come hang out with us in two
weeks where we're going to talk about the best console ever
made, the games that were on that system, how it influenced
us and where we're at today because of those consoles.
So come hang out with us. Boy do I have a a pick for that.
Love it. Absolutely love it.
Jesse, thanks again for hanging out.
This is always fun talking about Magic Gathering.
Thank you chat for hanging out live.
If you like this podcast, we have 13 other ones behind this
for you to listen to. We've been doing it that long.
We've been podcasting for over a year and yeah, I have moved us
into Season 2. I'm calling Last Podcast.
Each year is a season. Season 2.
Nice. So that that's where we're at.
We've got a bunch of these. We're going to keep it up.
The volume is going to increase this year because Jesse and I
have a lot to talk about. My throat is sore, so I'm going
to call it a night here. Thanks for hanging out.
Be awesome out there and we'll see you next time.