1 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,960 You're listening to Weird and Dead, the paleontology podcast 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,120 that tells evolution's most embarrassing and bizarre 3 00:00:09,120 --> 00:00:10,680 stories. I'm Megan Weatherill. 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,280 And I'm Amy Atwater, and we're two living scientists who are 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,800 weirdly excited about dead things. 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,480 On this episode, we talk about how to get into paleontology, or 7 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,320 more specifically, how the two of us did. 8 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,480 That we talk about our various career paths, and there are a 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,800 lot of them. We also give tips on how to 10 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,480 follow your dreams within the science that we love. 11 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,920 And of course, we talk about how the two of us met to begin with. 12 00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:35,800 This episode is not as gross as normal. 13 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,000 Yeah, we don't know how that happened either. 14 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,200 But yeah, enjoy a nice PG PG-13 experience for a change. 15 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:52,600 Megan, how the heck did you get into paleontology in the first 16 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,560 place? So when I was a little girl, I 17 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,320 wanted to be a flight attendant and that is because. 18 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,000 I'm laughing. Yeah, I would be the worst 19 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,920 flight attendant of all time, and that is actually because I 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,280 took an aptitude test in school that told me that I should be a 21 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,320 cobbler, which is not a position that exists anymore except for 22 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:17,160 possibly for elves or people who live in, I don't know, Italy. 23 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:18,840 I don't really know what I wanted to do. 24 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,320 I like travelling. And then I went to Outdoor 25 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:26,840 school with the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry and I saw 26 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,440 science and scientists and I realized immediately in 6th 27 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,400 grade that that is exactly what I wanted to do. 28 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,480 So yeah, I started my paleo journey there. 29 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,680 I wanted to be a geologist, herpetologist, paleontologist. 30 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,520 And I think technically speaking, I have done all three 31 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,000 of those things. But it did take some time. 32 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,920 I went to 1000 colleges. That's right. 33 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,040 Didn't you? Yeah. 34 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,960 By the time I met you, you were like, ah, yes, that's right. 35 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,800 How many How many undergrad institutions did you go to? 36 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,400 OK, get them all. I physically attended 3 37 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,280 undergraduate universities and it's not like they kicked me 38 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,040 out. I'm not like running from. 39 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:10,919 No shame if they did. I had undiagnosed ADHD. 40 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,240 That's true. So I I first went to University 41 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:20,480 of Lethbridge because I am Canadian and I didn't know what 42 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,880 a Canadian winter was like. And by the time that I 43 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,760 experienced one of those, I no longer wanted to engage in 44 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,160 MyHeritage. So I moved back to Oregon and I 45 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,480 went to Portland State University. 46 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,440 Then I realized I wanted friends, so Portland State 47 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,240 wasn't going to work out super well because it's a commuter 48 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:40,960 college. Or at least it was at that time 49 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,040 and nobody would talk to me. So then I went to Oregon State 50 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,800 and that's where I actually graduated from with a degree in 51 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,120 biology. And the way that they do it at 52 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,800 OSU is you have to take so many chemistry classes that it's just 53 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,080 like one more class to get a minor in chemistry. 54 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,400 So I also have a in chemistry. Yeah. 55 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,960 I mean good for you, I. Worked as a chemistry tutor for 56 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,520 a while there. Which is? 57 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,600 Weird to think about considering my complete inability to 58 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,000 comprehend any of that now. That's impressive. 59 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,760 Yeah, so a bachelor's degree in biology. 60 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,040 Then I went and did a whole bunch of other stuff and came 61 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:18,600 back. By the time I came back, I 62 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,760 decided that I did want to actually get my graduate degree 63 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,480 in paleontology, which is not where we met, but it is where we 64 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,480 started really hanging out was from Graduate School. 65 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,160 And so yeah, I have a bachelor's degree in biology with a minor 66 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,280 in chemistry from Oregon State. And then, like the trader I am, 67 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,960 I have a PhD from University of Oregon in Geological Sciences. 68 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,000 Because if you're not from Oregon and you don't know 69 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,720 anything about Oregon, those two schools are very competitive 70 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,320 with one another. And they're all of 45 minutes 71 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,120 apart, too. So I remember having cousins. 72 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,720 I grew up in Eugene, where the University of Oregon is, and I 73 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,880 have cousins who live in Corvallis, or who did at the 74 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,240 time. And anytime we had one of the, 75 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,400 you know, U of O versus OSU football games and they won, 76 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,400 they would call us up like angry. 77 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,840 Like not angry because they won. But they were just like in your 78 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,360 face. Suck it like. 79 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,120 Losers. And we were like, we don't even 80 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,120 really care. Like we're not really into this, 81 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,480 like this is OK. Congratulations. 82 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,320 I would occasionally go to games during undergrad because my 83 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,079 roommates were super, super into it, and then because the 84 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:23,640 tutoring that I was doing was for the athletes, I was part of 85 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,080 like the athletes tutoring program. 86 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,160 So it's like going and watching my children play their little 87 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,000 sports. Oh my gosh, that's so cute. 88 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,080 You did it. Now you can do this. 89 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,920 Past chemistry. And they're like, no, I can't. 90 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,400 Oh, that's so wild. I also was a tutor for student 91 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,040 athletes at the University of Oregon. 92 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:46,880 Can I ask, can I ask you a? Question. 93 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,560 Yeah. How long was your you cannot 94 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,120 sleep with the athletes training. 95 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,400 Oh yeah. I mean, like by that point I was 96 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,440 off the market. And yes, I do remember that. 97 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,240 I also remember, I mean, again, this is at the University of 98 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,480 Oregon, AKA the University of Nike. 99 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:10,360 And so it was just a weird place to be no matter what. 100 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,160 And I will tell you this, that the third floor of the building 101 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,920 that we worked in was off limits to like normal people. 102 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,280 It was only open to the student athletes and to those of us who 103 00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:23,120 were tutoring them. And in the third floor women 104 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,200 bathroom, there was a neon outline of Phil Knight's face in 105 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,040 the woman's bathroom. And I remember being like, why 106 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,880 is there essentially an image of Phil Knight in this bathroom 107 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,320 where of course because that building is all glass, right? 108 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,040 That's the that's the building that. 109 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:44,840 Drowns all the ducklings, right? Yes, and we're the ducks. 110 00:05:44,840 --> 00:05:47,440 Like this is bad. Yes, it kills. 111 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,240 It kills the ducks. It's it's it's a cube made of 112 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,840 glass. OSU does not have Phil Knight 113 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:56,680 level of money but they have like rabid level of enthusiasm. 114 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,360 So very passionate. Very passionate. 115 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,320 And our training to not fuck the athletes, which was the sole 116 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,880 training we received it was about 3 hours three straight 117 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,640 hours of like and here's how you do your paperwork don't fuck the 118 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,960 athletes and here's how you do this don't have sex with your 119 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,760 students and and so that's my educational history. 120 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,320 I did not sleep with any of the athletes. 121 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:21,760 What is yours? What? 122 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,880 How did you get into Paleo, Amy? Oh yeah, yeah. 123 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,360 We just did a little hint, see hint here. 124 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,160 Yeah, I mean very similar. I mean, especially with, you 125 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,240 know, Outdoor School, AKA. For me it was summer camps for 126 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,560 definitely. I mean, prior to that, I was 127 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,720 always really interested in biology. 128 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,200 And by that, like when I was in elementary school, I just like 129 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,240 tigers. I loved tigers. 130 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,880 I was just obsessed with tigers. Yes, tigers. 131 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,880 I had so many books on Tigers and I'm pretty sure I went to 132 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,760 one of those really sketchy, like Tiger King level places in 133 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,840 Southern Oregon where you could like look at the Tigers. 134 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:01,960 I never got to touch one. I was really obsessed with 135 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,640 Tigers. And then though, I was like, 136 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,080 well, they're dying. So that's not a really steady 137 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,600 career option. And then so then I was like, 138 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,480 well, what is not like, what is sciency? 139 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,960 But like there's always more to study and I was like the ocean, 140 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,160 right? We've never seen all of the 141 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:20,760 ocean. And by this time I was already 142 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,000 going to these Oregon Museum of Science and Industry camps based 143 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,360 out of Portland Omzee, and I was like, OK, I want to be a marine 144 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,400 biologist then that obviously makes sense. 145 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,280 So I went to a. So much more sustainable than 146 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,040 Tiger. Yeah, well, but there's so much 147 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,360 more to explore. It's like we we know there's 148 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,840 only like 20 tigers left, but at least we have no idea what's 149 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,680 left of the ocean. Except for it's all ruined 150 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,360 already. It's all wrecked. 151 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,080 And so, yeah, I went on 7th grade. 152 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,680 I went on a spring break trip to Monterey Bay, California, and it 153 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,360 rained the entire time, which was fine. 154 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,720 We were very used to that as Oregonians and we went 155 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:02,680 snorkeling in Monterey Bay and I could not do it. 156 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:08,720 I was terrified of the kelp the. Kelp I also really hate 157 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,720 snorkeling because I went snorkeling with OMSI so many 158 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:13,520 times. But my first experiences were 159 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,480 always with Salmon Camp. This is the Native American 160 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,080 camp, which is great. But I was like, was it full of 161 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,160 salmon? We snorkeled with rotten dead 162 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,440 salmon, like it was like snorkeling with zombies. 163 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,800 It was awful and it was so cold and I was the counselor, so I 164 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,159 had to like, pretend to think this was cool. 165 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,159 And it was not cool. It was gross. 166 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,720 It was so gross. See that? 167 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,400 That's a good reason to not like snorkeling. 168 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,520 I was in one of the best places in the world to go snorkeling 169 00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:48,160 with support and I was just a camper and I was terrified. 170 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,280 And it's not so much the kelp. The kelp I am. 171 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,560 I am afraid of kelp. It's more of like what lies 172 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,200 beneath. What is hidden in the kelp. 173 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,160 I get freaked out by big fish as we get into. 174 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,280 The Sturgeon stuff. I don't know. 175 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,520 I just, I have it. I have some fun ones. 176 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,920 But I just remember sitting on the beach while everyone went 177 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,720 snorkeling because I was just like, fuck this, no fucking way. 178 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,400 So then I realized that I was like, Oh well, maybe if things 179 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,680 are already dead, they'll be fun to study and they'll already be 180 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:24,080 extinct, so I won't have to, like, have my heart broken like 181 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,440 the tiger situation. And then I went on. 182 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,160 So one of the camps that OMSI offers is PRT, which is the 183 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,280 paleontology research team and it is like a three-week long 184 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,560 intensive paleontology team. And I had essentially done all 185 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:41,280 the other camps offered because I am a privileged white girl. 186 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,280 And so my parents sent me to them and it was great. 187 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,280 So I was just like, well what's another one I can do? 188 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,160 And I just chose that one because I got to be in my 189 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,520 favorite place, the John Day Fossil beds out in Eastern 190 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,600 Oregon for that whole time. And I just loved every second of 191 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,160 it. And I knew that that was my jam. 192 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,800 That was my thing. I was so dirty and like sleep 193 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,120 deprived and I think I had three showers in that three weeks, 194 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,120 right? Like, you know how OMSI life was 195 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,920 and I just loved it. And I know I came back from camp 196 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,480 and I had really bad acne because I didn't bathe for three 197 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,640 weeks and my mother was horrified and I was just like 198 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,480 ecstatic and like glowing, except for my skin, which is not 199 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:19,520 great. Glowing. 200 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,240 It's just glowing. A different color, kind of in a 201 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,000 speckly sense. Exactly. 202 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,080 Yeah. So after that I just got real 203 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:31,640 into it and decided to go to college to pursue it and thought 204 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,000 I was going to go to a bunch of different fancy ass schools. 205 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,960 And then 2008, 2009 economic crisis happened and it became 206 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,240 very apparent that local was going to be a great option for 207 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,880 me and I'm very glad I did that. I already had some connections 208 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,840 to the geology department there and so I went to the University 209 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,200 of Oregon. Yeah, home of the Ducks and I 210 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:58,160 was in the honors college there and I ended up getting a degree 211 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,120 in geological sciences and I did a minor in anthropology because 212 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,320 I found out that anthropology offers a lot of the really fun 213 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,760 evolution level classes. You know like biology a lot of 214 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,080 times at some of these major universities is really focused 215 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,360 on micro aspects of biology and I'm more interested in 216 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,760 organismal like zoology kind of level questions. 217 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,680 So anthropology was actually a really fun way to talk about 218 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,520 like evolutionary processes and things like that on like a 219 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,680 larger scale. So I highly recommend Anthro 220 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:29,720 classes for folks and they're very interesting. 221 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,680 So yeah, and let's see my time there did some cool research 222 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:34,960 too. And I think that that's what 223 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,200 we're going to talk about now is some of our research interests. 224 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,680 And I mean again, since we have this Oregon connection, some 225 00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:45,600 similar or my first ever research project was on 226 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,000 Oriadonts. Megan Like. 227 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,840 Yeah. Which is like that's essentially 228 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,320 what you did your dissertation on. 229 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,240 Do you want to tell us about what the hell an Oriadon is and 230 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,480 how you studied them? Sure, sure. 231 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,520 So Oriadonts are the world's best animal? 232 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,000 Well, they were. They were anyway. 233 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,920 So they are very dead. And the way that I like to 234 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,000 describe them to people is they're related to camels, but 235 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,240 they are shaped like pigs, and some of them had claws and could 236 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,960 climb trees and some of them had hooves and bit each other in the 237 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,520 face a lot. And some of them had trunks, 238 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,880 big, old, not quite elephanty level, but like tapier level 239 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,760 trunks. So doing all sorts of weird 240 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,840 stuff, the most common Organism in the North Americas for like 241 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,960 50 million years, hypertragulids might technically beat them, the 242 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,040 little mouse deer, but like, so common, so abundant. 243 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,080 And then they all died. And so I really kind of wanted 244 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,120 to know why, But I didn't get that far. 245 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,880 Because it turns out that they have been so screwed up because 246 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,200 there's so many of them, and a lot of early paleontologists 247 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,560 didn't seem to like, understand the scope of variation. 248 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,160 So like new species of Oriadonts would be named off of things 249 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,600 like the difference between my nose and your nose would make us 250 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,360 different species. And there there's a big 251 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,080 difference. But we are both the same 252 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,200 species. We are both the same species, so 253 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,120 yeah, So I ended up spending a lot of time trying to figure out 254 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,240 how to like kind of deal with some of the taxonomy problems in 255 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,880 Oriadonts and how to like tackle those problems in other animals 256 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,200 as well. So I did a lot of stuff on like 257 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,960 species concept and statistics Y stuff, which is why I'm now a 258 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,560 professor of data science, because I studied so much 259 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,000 statistics in order to understand Orionons. 260 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,480 So that's a lot of the research that I've done. 261 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,440 What did you do with Orionons? Cry? 262 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,760 Oh yeah, like most people. I love, yeah, I quickly gave up. 263 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,440 That's really what I did. I also love that I stuff. 264 00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:46,120 I also do have a master's degree. 265 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:47,520 I kind of forgot. To mention that. 266 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,440 Part I That was my bad. I'll get to it with this part 267 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,200 too. But let's see. 268 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,360 In my senior year of high school, I was a part of the 269 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,640 International Baccalaureate program, which is like AP but 270 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,880 for nerdy kids who want to have a more international take on it. 271 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,560 And we had to do a senior project and I was already still 272 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:10,120 in connection with my instructor from the Paleo research team who 273 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,240 was our friend David, and he's was a student or a post back 274 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,360 student I think at the time at the University of Oregon. 275 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,760 And he decided to help. Me, if you don't know what a 276 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,600 post back is, it's I'm just going to stick it around for a 277 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,560 little bit longer. I also did that. 278 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,200 Yes, nothing wrong with that. It's a great way to continue to 279 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,560 get research opportunities and volunteer and education and just 280 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,400 be a part of a dope lab group. Yeah, And so he was like, Oh 281 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,840 well, we could do something on oridans. 282 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:41,080 So I looked at oridans and how we could use their teeth to 283 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,440 understand if body sizes changed over the climate change. 284 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,520 Because as you talked about, oridans were around for four 285 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,880 fucking ever. Especially compared to modern 286 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:51,960 species like get your shit together. 287 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,160 Like, have some respect for these oridons. 288 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,720 Yeah, come on. Yeah. 289 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,280 So essentially they persisted in Oregon for so long. 290 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,720 And also Oregon goes through substantial climate change 291 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,600 during that time, from being like a hot, moist, jungly 292 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,360 rainforest to drying out over time and becoming more seasonal. 293 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,480 And if the oridon body sizes would change in connection with 294 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,080 that, and if there'd be a signal in that. 295 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,160 So I measured a ton of their first molars to try to. 296 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,640 Because molar size can be used as an inference for body size. 297 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,040 There's some problems with that. Listen to our episode on 298 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,080 biological constraints to hear about that. 299 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,680 And then I tried to then correlate that with time and see 300 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,280 if there's any major changes in body sizes. 301 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,080 But as you said, we got fucked over. 302 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,800 Because their taxonomy is such a hot mess that it was almost 303 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,760 impossible to follow a lineage through time consistently and 304 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,840 accurately enough to actually be able to infer if there was a 305 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,080 change in body size. Because people, depending on who 306 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:56,920 they were and what they believed in, had different 307 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,400 interpretations on who was related to who in the Orion 308 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,520 world. And therefore like, it just was. 309 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:03,840 It became quick. I remember sitting down and 310 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,520 being like, OK, and then I'll see which species goes to the 311 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,720 next species. Or like I'm going to go through 312 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,760 this person's taxonomy and see how it connects to this. 313 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,480 And I just had this like, fucked up horrible diagram of just 314 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,840 lines to each other that I was just like, no, no, no, no, no, 315 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,920 never again, never again. But I did great on that paper. 316 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,240 I was awarded the best senior paper, actually at my high 317 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,080 school. So thank you Oreodonts, but 318 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,680 yeah, it was It convinced me I did not want to work with 319 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,680 Oridons and I ended. Not mammals. 320 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,560 Mammals. Oh, mammals are great. 321 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,200 And I still love oridons. They're one of my first loves, 322 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:43,560 for sure. And that's why I was so glad 323 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,800 when you were like, I like oridons and I was like, here you 324 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,240 go. I'm not that I gave you oridons, 325 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:53,560 but I was just like, have fun. I'm so glad you Someone Like You 326 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,000 who is smarter than me will try to work on this. 327 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:01,760 And fix these things. And I decided to actually pivot 328 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,920 towards my combination of my loves, which is deep time 329 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,960 mammals, but also anthropology, right? 330 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,880 So I also was really interested in human evolution. 331 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:16,000 But an undergraduate, I realized that human evolution is a toxic 332 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:19,119 wasteland of personalities and drama. 333 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,400 And I realized that I wanted absolutely nothing to do with 334 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,800 this shit show. That was the competitive world 335 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,320 of human evolution where you fight over 2 tiny shitty 336 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,960 fossils. And so I realized like, oh, you 337 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,320 know what, no one fights over really old primate fossils. 338 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,840 And I pivoted towards early primates. 339 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,680 So like, Eocene primates. So Eocene was from like 56 to 340 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,160 34,000,000 years ago. And it was when across the globe 341 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,800 we saw like, thanks to the PETM, we saw a spike in temperatures 342 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,800 and it was like lush tropical forests, like even up to the 343 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,400 poles. So primates just. 344 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,560 Flourish Paleo Seeing Thermal Maximum. 345 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,200 It's like a super hot. So hot. 346 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,200 Thank you. Yeah, and it did Primates good. 347 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,640 They diversified really well in that time, and we see some 348 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,440 really cool primate lineages. And that's what I ended up 349 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,040 pursuing for Graduate School, is I had already worked on them a 350 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,000 little bit in undergrad. I got a Goldwater research 351 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,560 scholarship there, which is a great opportunity for undergrad 352 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:26,160 research, and then I took a year off, so taking time off, we both 353 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,560 took time off between degrees, which is a great option. 354 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,680 I went to Denali National Park to study their dinosaur tracks, 355 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:39,160 which was cool, and there was a government shutdown, so I used 356 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,080 that time to apply for the National Science Foundation 357 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:42,880 graduate. Research. 358 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,840 Fellowship on a project looking at ESC and primate diversity, 359 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,040 specifically OMA Myads, and the need to do essentially an 360 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,960 updated family tree phylogeny for them and try to understand 361 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,360 what factors led to their extinction. 362 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,840 Possibly to use as a proxy to protect modern primate 363 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,480 populations from extinction. If we can understand why 364 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,680 primates went extinct in deep time, maybe we can apply some of 365 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,760 that knowledge to conserve the primate species that we have 366 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,400 facing extinction today. That's where I I fell in love 367 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,480 with primates and accepted, hey, what was supposed to be a PhD 368 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,120 position. At the university? 369 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,200 Yes, at the University of Texas at Austin. 370 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,920 I like to be very frank about this because I think it matters 371 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,520 a lot. I did not complete my PhD. 372 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,880 I dropped out after my masters degree was earned in process, 373 00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:42,120 largely because of my mental health and the program not being 374 00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:46,040 a good fit and my advisor, while being a cool enough person, not 375 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,480 being a great fit for my research and for my mental 376 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,040 health. And I dropped out of that 377 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,400 program to accept a job in Montana as the paleontology 378 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,400 collections manager at a big old museum full of dinosaurs. 379 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,240 So it is OK y'all to change the direction of your path. 380 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,120 I thought I was going to be a PhD forever. 381 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:07,640 I thought maybe I'd go back for a PhD and now I'm like, Nope. 382 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,760 You know what? You only changed your master's 383 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,640 slash graduate program once. It took me 3 separate times with 384 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,000 undergrad and also I had a Community College credit on 385 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,880 there. So at least you did one big 386 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:27,280 pivot whereas I was like 4. And that's the journey, right? 387 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,880 And so when folks ask us how do I become a paleontologist, I 388 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,600 think we both can kind of chuckle because I mean it's 389 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,200 really make your own adventure and there are so many different 390 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,600 routes to go there. I'm we both have a pet peeve on 391 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:40,920 this. We're not going to go down into 392 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,320 this rabbit hole right now about getting a degree in paleontology 393 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,080 because it really doesn't fucking exist. 394 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,600 Guys, like we know that you got it in a paleontology track, OK, 395 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,960 we all did. But your degree says geology. 396 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,480 Your degree says biology. Like your program, your 397 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,400 department is this. I'm so sorry to hate on those 398 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,800 people, but it's still like you there. 399 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,560 Like there are so many different ways. 400 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,800 And when you hear someone be like, well, I got a paleontology 401 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,200 degree, it's like, well, what is that? 402 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,600 There are just so many ways to get a paleo degree. 403 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,960 I have a PhD in paleontology, but not really because my 404 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,160 diploma says geological sciences, which yeah, we've 405 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,120 we've kind of talked about that before our blog and stuff. 406 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:22,280 But when we talk about going to become a paleontologist, 407 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,440 paleontologist. Paleontology is so diverse and 408 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,360 strange. You have to learn so many 409 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:30,120 different things you very rarely stick with one program anyways. 410 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:33,240 You know, it is great if you end up with a paleontology track or 411 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,400 you're doing a paleontology focused degree. 412 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,160 Sure, if you want to call that a degree in that, fine. 413 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,080 I think it's I I guess I'm just picky about splitting hairs 414 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,360 there because I'm like that's not what your degree says. 415 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:45,840 And I just think it can be a little bit gatekeeping for folks 416 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,680 who don't have that at their local university to think, oh, I 417 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,800 can't be a paleontologist because my school doesn't offer 418 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,480 a paleontology degree. And it's like, I'm sorry, but 419 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,320 out of all of the schools in North America known for 420 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,360 paleontology, I'm going to say that Oregon is, is we've got a 421 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:02,440 good program, but it's not necessarily where you're going 422 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,440 to be like and that's, you know, it's not like some of these 423 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,280 other programs. And yet you can still make it 424 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,320 work because anyone can make it work at any level and at any 425 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,280 university and at any Community College for that matter too. 426 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,320 So don't be intimidated by, oh, I heard that you have to get a 427 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,160 degree in blah, blah, blah. Now you can do, I know folks who 428 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:25,000 have degrees in, you know, social studies or in literature 429 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,280 and have gone on to graduate degrees in a more science 430 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,920 focused thing and they make it work too. 431 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,200 So many ways to become a paleontologist. 432 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,760 I do feel like you, out of the two of us, have had the most 433 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:41,400 formal paleontology jobs. I mean, I've, I've been, you 434 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,400 know, a professor, but I've never been, like, hired to do 435 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,640 Preparator stuff or so. Maybe you should talk a little 436 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,640 bit about all of your various paleontology. 437 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,240 Jobs, Oh my gosh. I think at this, this last job, 438 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,680 I just got a new job. And I think they looked at my 439 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,280 resume and were like, oh, shit, this girl never stays anywhere. 440 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,840 Yeah, that, Like, it's true. But that's the millennial curse. 441 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,320 It's not actually me. It's our generation. 442 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:09,680 Yeah. I mean, I think that it can be, 443 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,640 it can be so gatekeepy to even what a paleontologist is like, I 444 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,560 I see posts on social media all the time where it's like, you 445 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,240 have to either be a preparator, a professor, a curator, or, you 446 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,440 know, those sorts of things. And I'm like, no, there's so 447 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,880 many different ways to be a paleontologist, whether or not 448 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,400 it's in your job title. So yeah, I think I've only 449 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,000 actually had one position where paleontology was in my job 450 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,560 title. And yeah, and that was when I 451 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,920 was the paleontology collections manager and registrar for Museum 452 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,120 of the Rockies at Montana State University in Bozeman, Mt And 453 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:46,320 that was an awesome job. I got to oversee the largest 454 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,280 collection of Triceratops and T Rex fossils in the entire world. 455 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,080 I got to do some dope research. I was the only person there who 456 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,960 gave a shit about mammals. So they were like, oh, this is 457 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,720 yours And I was like, I'll take it and still working on that 458 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,000 manuscript. One of them whoops, it's going 459 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,240 to take a while and that was OK. So if you want to pursue 460 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,600 something like a museum and collection management, honestly, 461 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,000 I already had a background of volunteering and working with 462 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,920 the University of Oregon collections manager while I was 463 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,180 in college and it eventually turned into a very, very part 464 00:24:19,180 --> 00:24:21,600 time paid position. So, so if you have any 465 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,040 opportunities to volunteer, I know that volunteering is a 466 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,120 total privilege, but it can really help with getting some of 467 00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:31,600 those experiences to understand how you manage fossils, which is 468 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,880 honestly know how to document things properly, know how to 469 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,920 handle things properly, and know how to communicate with folks 470 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,600 who want to research these fossils. 471 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,560 I think those are some of the most important aspects that you 472 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,800 can work on. And it was a it was really, it 473 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,200 was a really fantastic job. I learned a ton. 474 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,920 Bozeman got very expensive for us. 475 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,920 My husband also finished his PhD right around the time of the 476 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,600 pandemic, and it was a good opportunity for us to pursue his 477 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,280 research and his job. And so we ended up moving to 478 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,080 Georgia, of all places, which was weird. 479 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,960 And I couldn't get a job at all in Georgia. 480 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,920 There's there is paleontology in Georgia. 481 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,840 There's some cool dinosaurs there, by the way. 482 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,320 No one knows that, but there are. 483 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,960 And so instead, I took a museum technician position of the John 484 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,040 Day Fossil Beds National Monument for four months, which 485 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,880 again was I was a preparator and a collections assistant. 486 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,840 And so I got to prep fossils, which is a really cool 487 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,120 opportunity. Yeah. 488 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:31,080 So using different equipment to remove the bones themselves from 489 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,400 their Earth's grave, it's just cleaning. 490 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,680 Cleaning and getting the bones out so that you can. 491 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,320 Yeah, Preparator, it's preparing, I guess is the long 492 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,160 version of the word, but we all call it prep or prepping. 493 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,520 You get to use like air scribes. And I mean, you use some of the 494 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,160 most rudimentary equipment that people have been using for 495 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,720 hundreds of years to clean fossils because it really hasn't 496 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,560 changed that much. Yeah, dental tools, really, 497 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,240 really cool job. I got to work on this jacket. 498 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,320 So a jacket is when you use burlap that's been soaked in 499 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,840 plaster to wrap it around like the bones. 500 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,560 But also you don't want to just excavate just the bones when 501 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,800 you're in the field because then when you transport them back to 502 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,400 the museum or university, like, that can fuck them up. 503 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,160 So you actually want to take a big chunk of the earth around 504 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,080 them too, out of the rock around them too. 505 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,880 And so you end up making these little toadstool mushroom 506 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,000 toadstools, essentially, that you cover with plaster and 507 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,040 burlap, and then you flip them and you plaster that part too. 508 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,200 And then you somehow carry them out or use a helicopter. 509 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,400 If they're really big and you have money, it's important. 510 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,040 It's an important. Part. 511 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,600 People can do a lot with just a flatbed truck though. 512 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,480 I've seen some impressive shit go down South and then you take 513 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,760 that back and then you have to open up and peel off all that 514 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,920 plaster and burlap and then remove all that earth and all 515 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,840 that rock. And I worked on an Oridon that 516 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,280 had been collected. Your name was written on the 517 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,200 Oridon jacket because it had been collected this summer 518 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:03,000 before I did PRT out at the Sore Foot site in on BLM land. 519 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,120 I lost skin to that Oridon. Me too. 520 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:11,320 When we were going, when we were going up to go collect it, I was 521 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,040 swinging a cooler like a dipshit in one hand with someone else 522 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,280 holding on to the other side. And I just ate shit on the trail 523 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:24,480 up to and scraped off like I want to say like 2 by two inches 524 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:31,480 of my which was just like pussy and bloody and gross for like 2 525 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,200 weeks. Looks fine now. 526 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,680 Damn. So that Orion took took. 527 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,800 Wow, I didn't know that part I that's sorefoot was known to be 528 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,520 a pretty gnarly sight. Anyway, I'm not surprised that 529 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,360 you tripped. It's like a good, you know, if 530 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:48,560 you're going to trip somewhere, it's going to be someplace like 531 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:49,920 sorefoot, which is really hard to. 532 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,720 Someplace literally called. Sore. 533 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,800 Exactly. So that was a that was a really 534 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,000 interesting position. But now we both have jobs where, 535 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,280 I mean, I still identify as a paleontologist. 536 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,880 I recently left a position as a curator with the USGS, but I 537 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,120 never felt like a geologist. I still feel kind of like an 538 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:09,280 imposter because even though I have a geology degree, I only 539 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,920 ever studied geology to understand the context of the 540 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,400 bones. I never really like. 541 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,080 And then I married one. It was a great way to get my 542 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,360 Mrs. too, as they would call it, which is a really fucked up, 543 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:24,800 nasty thing to say to women who happen to marry people in their 544 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:25,840 field. Yeah. 545 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,360 Oh God, no. I lost my train of thought. 546 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:28,720 Yeah. Anyway, geology. 547 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,640 I kind of identify as a geologist, kind of identified as 548 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,520 a curator, but I still identify as a paleontologist, even though 549 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,040 I haven't had a job where it's in my title for a really long 550 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,480 time. So how do you, how do you 551 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,600 grapple with all of those different things, and what's 552 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,000 your current job? You know since getting my PHDI 553 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,280 worked as a data analyst sort of job for a little while then I I 554 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,680 I've worked various forms of like she's called an assistant 555 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,560 professor she's called a lecturer she's called an 556 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,840 instructor like teaching style jobs but like they don't have 557 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,640 like an assistant professor of paleontology at most of these 558 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,360 places and because so much of the research I do is statistics 559 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,480 based, I am now teaching in a it's called the school of 560 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,240 information. We just became our own college 561 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,880 and at the University of Arizona and I teach data science classes 562 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,720 and science communication classes and game design classes. 563 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,480 It is cool and it's it's a fun kind of new Ave. to. 564 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,000 I just got an SF grant with a Co worker at Oregon State 565 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,360 University and a big part of my job on the grants is we got a 566 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,800 bunch of money to make a video game all about the area that 567 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,560 we've been working in. Which is weirdly enough an 568 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,480 archaeology site because I'm one of those paleontologists that 569 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,160 works with archaeologists so much that I am muddying the 570 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,720 waters between archaeology and paleo. 571 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,200 But I do remember that when I accepted this position, there 572 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,760 was a paleontologist who commented on my Facebook, Oh, 573 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,640 you're leaving paleontology like. 574 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,400 Yes, No. Man, I'm not just because of my 575 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,760 name doesn't have the word paleo and I'm not in a geology 576 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,720 department. I'm just doing the math that you 577 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,920 don't really seem to understand how to do, even as a person with 578 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,480 a PhD who is working as a professor. 579 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,160 There are some people who think I'm not a real paleontologist 580 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,680 because there's so much elitism with the weird term. 581 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,960 Yeah, I worked with a certain dinosaur paleontologist who I 582 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,320 will not name because I fucking. Cannot stand him, yeah. 583 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,520 He thought that unless you had a PhD in paleontology, you 584 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,880 couldn't call yourself a paleontologist. 585 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,360 Anyways, there's a there's a little bit of elitism that comes 586 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,080 in with with paleontology jobs. But, you know, we're both out 587 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,040 there doing the research, we're both writing papers. 588 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,280 We're but we're not just doing that. 589 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,240 So we talk to people, right? Like, I think that paleontology 590 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,160 has a huge, huge outreach component because it's one of 591 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,080 the sciences that get it gets people really excited about 592 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,520 science. It's a gateway science, as I 593 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,800 like to think of it. You know it is. 594 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,120 It is because even if you don't end up in Paleo, maybe you end 595 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,000 up in one of the fields that is relevant, which is stuck in 596 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,280 every single field. By the way. 597 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,040 It's so cool. It's so cool. 598 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,840 You have to understand it's you get to understand so many 599 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,200 different components to a good research project. 600 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,920 By the way, before we totally transition to outreach, we've 601 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,000 also done some cool research together. 602 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,920 We have a paper together. We both have multiple 603 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,040 publications. If you don't believe we know our 604 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,200 shit, just look us up on Google Scholar. 605 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,480 We're there. And we do have a paper together 606 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,840 based on some cool work in from West TX as well. 607 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,640 So if you're interested in beautiful paleontology, cool 608 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,440 Eocene sites and how people date those sites and we don't mean 609 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,680 wine and dine at dinner but understand how old they are, 610 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,080 then then you can look up. We'll have to send a put out a 611 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,600 link to our because it's Open Access, because it's in Paleo 612 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,480 electronica, which we've both worked for. 613 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,200 There's a lot which does tie directly into outreach, right? 614 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,720 I mean, it's a really fun field to be able to talk to people 615 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,320 about and do a bunch of different like you say you teach 616 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,760 classes on science communication. 617 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,200 What the fuck does that even mean? 618 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,080 Like, science communication can be so vast, right? 619 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,160 So what are some of the things you cover and how does that 620 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,360 relate to your own experiences? My science communication class, 621 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,120 we really focus a lot on digital media. 622 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,000 So we focus on things like how do you do science communication 623 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,160 through social media, Where, what are the advantages? 624 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,520 What are the disadvantages? We talk about science 625 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,520 communication in game design, and we actually design games 626 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,480 together as part of the class. We talk a lot about myth 627 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,760 busting, and we do because we started that class during COVID. 628 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,080 A lot of the myth busting has been around COVID, but we are 629 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,600 kind of branching out now because everybody's tired of 630 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,440 talking about COVID. So we're talking about like 631 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,640 evolution, myth busting and myth busting and climate change. 632 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,560 And there's there's a lot to talk about out there because 633 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,440 science communicators also kind of get a little bit of 634 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,760 disrespect on their name, considering that it's a very 635 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,240 difficult field to do correctly and there's a ton of research on 636 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,400 how to do it that people just don't read, as it turns out. 637 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,480 And I think a big part of it is, like a lot of things, when done 638 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,400 well, when it's done as well as a good science communicator 639 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,440 does, it looks easy. It looks fucking easy. 640 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,840 It's like, oh, I could do that. And we do, Yeah. 641 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,320 We see some of that where you're like, Oh well, what are you 642 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,000 doing that's not like science, it's not blah blah, blah. 643 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,600 And it's like, I think if you can't communicate your science 644 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,800 to like a 5 year old, then I don't know if you understand 645 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,360 your science as well as you think you do. 646 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,440 It's not a bad thing to be able to talk to kids about and 647 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,360 breakdown tough scientific concepts. 648 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,960 That doesn't mean you're like telling any less accurate 649 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,640 science. It is actually a major skill set 650 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,120 to be able to articulate that to a level to reach as many 651 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,480 different people as possible. That's beautiful. 652 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,040 And it's funny because I've been told multiple times, not by my 653 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,240 advisor, but by like other faculty members, that outreach 654 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,840 is not going to help my career and I should maybe not focus 655 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,400 quite so much on it. And it's the reason I got my 656 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,560 current professorship. I got my current job too. 657 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,719 I'm like, shit, yeah. Yeah, I'm in a department that 658 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,719 very much values outreach and science communication, so that's 659 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,800 been kind of nice. But yeah, so I've worked for PBS 660 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,080 eons as a scriptwriter for four years, five years, something 661 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,080 like that. And I'm writing for. 662 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,320 Your episodes are the best episodes. 663 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,600 Can we just talk about how your episode is the one that got how 664 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:29,400 many? Fucking. 665 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:30,960 I think. Gillian Views. 666 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,800 It has the most views of any PBS digital studios production. 667 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,920 So any of their YouTube videos? Yeah, so I wrote one about 668 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,320 Megalodon and it's got like 24,000,000 views or something. 669 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,360 But my proudest accomplishment is a different one. 670 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:48,719 I think I know what it's going to be. 671 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,520 I think I know what you're going to talk about. 672 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,360 What? About rain and dinosaurs and it 673 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:59,800 It trended very briefly for about 30 minutes above a Cardi B 674 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,520 music video. And that is what I want to have 675 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,680 written on my tombstone when I die. 676 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,040 It was 30 minutes. I had something more. 677 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,440 Video. Cardi B. 678 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,600 And then I've seen you on camera as well. 679 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:19,320 We're surrounded by death, which is accurate for us. 680 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,800 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So after doing working for PBS 681 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,040 events for a while, one of the the scripts that I wrote was 682 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,120 about Ash Fall Fossil Beds in Nebraska. 683 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,600 And someone filming a documentary for National 684 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,520 Geographic asked me to come out and, like, talk about that stuff 685 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,520 out there, which was so fun and so cool. 686 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:43,000 So I'm in a Nat Geo Special very briefly because I was there 687 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,920 filming for half a day, but they cut most of what I said because 688 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,240 I realized I kind of came off as mildly psychotic. 689 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,080 Which should be the tagline of this podcast. 690 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,920 I didn't realize that, like, the vibe of the show was going to be 691 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:04,320 like, oh, volcanoes are so big and scary and they kill people 692 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,600 and it's going to kill us all. And I was like, isn't this 693 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,560 awesome? Look at that dead baby. 694 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,120 That is so fun. That baby has arthritis. 695 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,880 Did you know that that baby suffered for days before it 696 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,360 died? God, science is so cool. 697 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,880 Let me tell you about Marie's disease. 698 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:28,400 We know this animal had a fever. So this one puked here, This one 699 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,640 puked there. What are the lines that they did 700 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,360 keep with? Something like and? 701 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,520 I know that most people would think that this is sad, but as a 702 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,560 paleontologist, this is just pretty cool, like. 703 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,640 Yeah, that sums up paleontology pretty well too. 704 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,400 It's just yeah, could be. Anyway, hire us guys, go on your 705 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,760 documentary. Just tell us what the vibe is. 706 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,400 OK, I can find. Tell us along. 707 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,240 I could play along. I'm not ready for a different 708 00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:57,040 YouTube channel that's going to come out shortly called History 709 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,400 of Humankind. And it's a totally different 710 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,760 vibe from Eons, because Eons is kind of like fossils are fun, da 711 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,880 da da, a little bit of giggles, little bit of jokes. 712 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,120 Although I will say that the editorial staff takes out most 713 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,200 of my jokes and that always disappoints me. 714 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,520 But with this other one, it's very dramatic, it's very 715 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,400 serious. So it's been kind of fun writing 716 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,480 for them, and it's just proof that I can do both. 717 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,760 You just have to tell me that I have to be serious and not too 718 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,600 excited about dead animals. You've also done a lot of 719 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,160 outreach and you're very popular on Instagram. 720 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,120 You should definitely tell us a little bit about the ad. 721 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,040 Oh my God. I'm Instagram quote UN quote 722 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,200 famous. And I'm like, no, I'm I'm 723 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,400 rapidly losing followers. You losing followers still means 724 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,760 that you have so many more followers than I do so. 725 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,120 I know, But the youth can get it so fast. 726 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,040 And I'm like, how, how? And then I'm like, oh, maybe 727 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,400 you've been doing it for 10 years. 728 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,520 It's OK. Calm down. 729 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:57,400 Raise a baby. No, I like, I like science 730 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,400 communication for sure. I think when I started my 731 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,520 Graduate School program at UT Austin, I had access to all 732 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,400 sorts of amazing fossils and casts and replicas and all sorts 733 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,040 of, you know, I was going through, I was taking paleo 734 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,400 related classes, primate anatomy classes. 735 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,920 I was dissecting A primate like a little monkey. 736 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,400 It was super cool. Just lots of opportunities to 737 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,800 show what my life day-to-day as someone pursuing paleontology, 738 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,920 like what that really looks like, which resonated really 739 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,800 well and started to grow an audience there. 740 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,880 Also, the beautiful thing about Austin, TX is that you're just 741 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,440 surrounded by the Cretaceous chalk, which is like 100 million 742 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,800 year old limestone throughout the entire town and the entire 743 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,760 state for that matter. And I and my free time would 744 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,720 just go walk the dry Creek beds and look for ammonites and other 745 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,480 really cool fossils. And so those did really well on 746 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,280 social media too as they started to just feature more and more 747 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,440 and more and all of a sudden my audience was growing and I 748 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,960 recognized oh, like I can use this as a platform to actually 749 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,560 share information and kind of fight pseudoscience and 750 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,800 hopefully create or lead to a more science informed public 751 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,280 which will hopefully lead to smarter voters. 752 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,360 Yay, Maybe we'll actually pay attention to things. 753 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,640 And I also and we're going to probably touch on this. 754 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,440 I also wanted to highlight that women can be paleontologists and 755 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,640 I wanted to make it really clear that, you know, every single 756 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,560 picture I took look was, you knew that it was from a woman's 757 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,560 point of view and that that was really important. 758 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,960 And so that has grown into a good audience, which stems from 759 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,800 our blog. So they have the same name of 760 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,400 Mary Anning's Revenge. I've had some cool 761 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:39,600 opportunities, not like, not like yours with long term stuff. 762 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,560 I worked for Paleo Electronica for a while, which is the online 763 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,760 Open Access paleontology journal, peer reviewed journal. 764 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,160 So I was their blog and public relations editor for like 5 or 765 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,160 six years and that was really cool. 766 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,560 I know it's a really long time. I like, look at the dates and I 767 00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,160 was like, oh shit, it's like 2013 to like 2018 or something 768 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,520 like that 2019. And that was really cool, 769 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,800 because I took all these research projects which Paleo 770 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,720 Electronica's dope because it's just any type of fossil animal 771 00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:10,280 from any place in the fucking world. 772 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,960 And we're going to share it. And so I had to work with 773 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,440 researchers from around the world to write blog posts on 774 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,960 their their studies. I had to try to understand what 775 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,000 a blastoid was. I had to try to understand what 776 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,800 like skink surface traces of their body. 777 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,120 Movements was like fully. Understand lizards? 778 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:29,840 I don't. So it was really challenging for 779 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,960 me on that one. I did things like put pictures 780 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,320 with the tweets. They weren't doing that before I 781 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,160 was there. And I was like, look, guys, we 782 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,800 can use a picture on this tweet. Look guys, we can use this thing 783 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,960 called a hashtag. They're like, wow. 784 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,160 So that was, that was really rad. 785 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,240 And then, yeah, well, I was at Museum of the Rockies. 786 00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:51,880 Oh my God, they they're like, what you like talking to people? 787 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,800 Here you go. So they put me on camera a lot. 788 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,760 Like we had AC Span tour at one point we had a Facebook live 789 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,280 tour of the entire museum through Visit Montana, which is 790 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:08,680 like the travel tourism Bureau. And so I had to do a live tour 791 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,360 of the entire Paleo part of the museum. 792 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,160 Like, without breaking, without totally fucking up and being 793 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:15,520 like. Fuck, God damn it. 794 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,360 Like, I had to just keep rolling with it. 795 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,960 And I haven't watched it back because I tried and I think I 796 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:26,400 say awesome every other word. I'm like, here's Big Al and it's 797 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,720 pretty awesome. It has some injuries, which is 798 00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:31,120 pretty awesome that that preserved these injuries. 799 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,040 Here we have like an Allosaurus, a different Allosaurus. 800 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,240 I know, but I'm just like, it's awesome. 801 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:39,160 It's awesome. So I guess that's my like catch 802 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,840 my issue. Mine is. 803 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,600 I love dead babies and yours is. It's awesome. 804 00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:45,840 It's awesome. Though I will say that I think 805 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,120 my proudest achievement in science communication to date, 806 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,680 besides the Insta page is that I did a comparison on Twitter when 807 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:58,080 Twitter was cool of of RuPaul's outfits compared to the 808 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,640 dinosaurs of Drumheller, which if you don't know about those, 809 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,440 go to our blog and see that and it trend. 810 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,160 I don't know if it was really trending or not, but it did well 811 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,240 on Twitter. It did well enough that I was 812 00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:13,000 hit up by multiple Canadian journalism and like news 813 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,160 agencies that they're like, Oh my God, you compared these 814 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,280 dinosaurs in Canada to Drew Paul. 815 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,840 Tell us about it. And I just, it was super funny. 816 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,240 It's like is it a slow Newsday in Canada? 817 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:24,160 Right. It's just. 818 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,960 But that was that I I that was that was really fun. 819 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:29,720 Yeah. I think we've danced around it a 820 00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:32,000 lot. So like, let's talk Mary 821 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:33,600 Anning's revenge. What is it? 822 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,640 How did it happen? When did we give birth? 823 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:41,680 Yeah, so we keep saying our blog because we wrote a blog called 824 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,120 Mary Anning's Revenge for like 456 years. 825 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:46,080 Something like that. We haven't. 826 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:47,760 We're right there occasionally now, but not. 827 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:48,960 Yeah, it's still alive. It was. 828 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,720 Kind of like our first joint foray into science 829 00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:56,120 communication, and it was, we called it Mary Anning's revenge, 830 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,680 because Mary Anning is the mother of paleontology, but she 831 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,680 also was a woman in paleontology and she did not get her due 832 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,960 credit. And the two of us were both 833 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:10,080 upset about it on her behalf and also experiencing our first set 834 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,000 of struggles as women in science. 835 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,760 And so yeah, we we talk a lot about some of the stuff that we 836 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,240 are gonna talk about on this podcast, like just animals and 837 00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:20,000 things that really excite us and that we think are really 838 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,080 interesting. And also a lot about like 839 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,080 misogyny and racism and how it plays a role in science and 840 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,880 won't let us get ahead. So yeah, we we talked about that 841 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,360 a lot on Mary Annie Revenge, and that wasn't really where we met, 842 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,760 but it was part of like, what really kind of brought us 843 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,360 together, I think, Right? Like. 844 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,560 But we started all of it because the the stars aligned and we 845 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,720 were both at the University of Oregon for one year at the same 846 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:49,320 time. I was finishing up my 847 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,440 undergraduate degree and it's when you had started your. 848 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,440 PhD. We were roommates. 849 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,560 Not in the making out kind of way of. 850 00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:58,360 Roommates. I tried. 851 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,120 I tried because Megan's made out with my brother. 852 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,320 So I thought that that would be a way of like one person who's 853 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,920 made out with both Atwaters. But she wouldn't do it. 854 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,640 I'd be too powerful if I don't. You can't. 855 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,560 So I worked with Amy's brother at summer camp for like five 856 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,640 years or something, and I was Amy's camp counselor. 857 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:20,800 Yeah, you were. As well. 858 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,440 Yeah. Can I tell you the things that 859 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,080 you taught me that I still think about? 860 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,440 That I know you taught me. Well, First off, you taught me 861 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,720 everything I know about all the constellations. 862 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:32,880 So like the story of Cassiopeia, Delphinius, the teapot. 863 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,000 Like all these motherfuckers are definitely because of you at 864 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,280 Astro Camp. Astro Camp, which is what all 865 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,000 the camp the kids would go to and try to like make out with 866 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,560 the other campers. And I was always like, does 867 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,080 anyone want to make out with me? And they were all like, no. 868 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:51,040 And I was like, and so then I just listened to my instructor 869 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,760 tell me about the stars. Well. 870 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,520 That's right, yeah. And then when I was going back 871 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,920 to Graduate School, I was talking to Amy at a conference 872 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,040 and that's when we decided to be bromates. 873 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,040 You know what we did at that conference, right? 874 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,960 It was in Vegas, you and I. You and I wandered over to the 875 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,200 porno convention. Like, wow, how did we not know 876 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:13,840 that all of this was going to happen? 877 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,000 We've just been in dirt bags. Yeah, okay. 878 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,160 Like, we couldn't get into the porno conference, but we were 879 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:20,640 hoping we could, like, see a porn star. 880 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,920 Or two. When we say wandered over, we 881 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,400 mean that at the same time as a big paleontology conference was 882 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,880 being held, there was a porn conference and it was like 2 883 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,480 floors over or something like it was not far. 884 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,760 And all we did is we walked around with the scale bars we 885 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,360 had just gotten for free at this our conference and took pictures 886 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,880 of them next to the pictures of the porno conference and their 887 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,680 fake appendages. Yes. 888 00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:47,920 So that you would have a sense of scale. 889 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,160 And we thought we were so funny. We were. 890 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:51,600 We were so funny. We were funny. 891 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,120 That was so funny. Yeah, thank you so much for 892 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,680 listening. This has been the last episode 893 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,560 of our first season of Weird and Dead, But because of the amazing 894 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,440 support that we've already received on Patreon, we do have 895 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,360 enough money that we now can hire an editor. 896 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,960 Which is great because Katie can edit things for us. 897 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,440 And instead of taking a year to produce a full season after a 898 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,520 brief break, we should be able to offer episodes every other 899 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,360 week. If you'd like to hear more in 900 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,120 the meantime and help support the show and help our growth, 901 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,800 you should follow us on Patreon for some exclusive bits. 902 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,520 We also have bonus episodes that we have filmed in advance that 903 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,600 will be going on to Patreon. In the meantime, this podcast is 904 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,960 part of the Geology Podcasting Network produced by the 905 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,840 traveling geologist Chris Spencer. 906 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,480 Cover art was provided by Chris Spencer and the host. 907 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,200 Our theme song is Unlock Me by Press Colonel. 908 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,600 Editing services are now provided by the amazing Katie 909 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,480 Bradley, and this episode was hosted and researched by us, Amy 910 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,240 Atwater and Megan Weatherall. Although, since I am filming 911 00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:55,080 this conclusion exclusively for the About Us would be really 912 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,520 creepy if that was not true.