1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,080 You're listening to Weird and Dead, the paleontology podcast 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,280 that tells evolution's most embarrassing and bizarre 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:10,960 stories. I'm Megan Weatherill. 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,080 And I'm Amy Atwater, and we're two living scientists who are 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,200 weirdly excited about dead things. 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,240 On this episode, we cover the details of radioactive dinosaurs 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:26,000 and poisonously gassy horses, and Megan tries, kind of 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,240 unsuccessfully, to remember the details from her minor in 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,080 chemistry. Yeah, well that's pretty much 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:33,920 it. But of course, like always, we 11 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,840 talk about gross things and we curse a lot, so please check out 12 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,760 the content warnings in the description. 13 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,400 Also, we are not for kids but Amy's new book is and you should 14 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,320 go buy a copy of the Fossil Keepers dresses. 15 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:58,480 For this episode, we're going to talk about radioactive dinosaurs 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,840 and radioactive horses and radioactive wood and all sorts 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,320 of radioactive fossils. Oh my. 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,520 I thought that I would start this one off with a story that 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,840 I'm hoping you haven't heard. I try to just, you know, cut all 20 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,600 dinosaur information from my brain when I can, so even if I 21 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,360 did know it at one point, does not mean it's still there 22 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:27,000 totally. Fair. 23 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,680 Well, you can just pretend that you didn't hear it anyways, 24 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,720 right? This is all new information. 25 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,000 For your tour to see. How good your acting ability. 26 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:45,840 And yeah, OK, so the story goes like this in the year of our 27 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,440 Lord and Savior 1990. Oh. 28 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,000 This is this is OK year. This is good year. 29 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,960 Yeah. In 1990 in Utah, a group of 30 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,600 paleontologists in Dinosaur National Monument found the 31 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:04,680 skeleton of an Allosaurus, which they were excited about, but 32 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,880 whatever, it's an Allosaurus. And they found like almost, 33 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,520 almost the full body. And it was in a quarry, but the 34 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,480 quarry was, I mean, you've we've talked about Dinosaur National 35 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,160 Monument in some of our Patreon stuff, but it's pretty steep. 36 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,240 So there became a certain point where they couldn't quarry back 37 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,760 anymore without it being kind of dangerous, especially since they 38 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,600 weren't sure if there was going to be anything else in there. 39 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,720 Because what they found was they found pretty well a whole 40 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,880 skeleton except for the head. No head. 41 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:42,040 OK, Headless Horseman style. OK, Ichabod is the name I see. 42 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,160 Yes, yes. Yeah, very French guillotine 43 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:50,040 style Allosaurus. So they kept looking for like 2 44 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,880 weeks I guess. I every time I read one of these 45 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,640 papers I get really mad because I feel like all of the 46 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:59,880 paleontology work that I've done has been in rocks that are as 47 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,280 hard as fucking diamonds. So the idea of sitting there for 48 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,520 two weeks and successfully getting like a whole dinosaur 49 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,840 out is just insane to me because everything's so hard. 50 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,640 I think everybody's digging through fucking sand in these 51 00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:15,680 dinosaur places. That's the only logical 52 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,800 conclusion that I can come to. Just mud it well, and it varies. 53 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,960 It actually gets really frustrating because the Morrison 54 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:28,360 here in Morrison, Co, of which it's named is a very, very, very 55 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,200 well cemented sandstone, silicious sandstone. 56 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,400 And it is next to impossible like the original, like, you 57 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,800 know, Arthur Lakes and Marsh or Cope, I can't remember because I 58 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,400 don't care. They had to use dynamite to get 59 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,520 it, and they knew they were just blasting through bones, but 60 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,800 there was no other way to do it quickly because of the bone 61 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:45,800 wars. They're trying to like, hurry, 62 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,760 hurry, hurry. And then it's fascinating when 63 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,440 you go to other places with Morrison, there's like mud, mud, 64 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,600 stone and shale. And people are like, yeah, we 65 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,720 just took out 50 Apatosaurus and you're like, what the fuck? 66 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:03,000 Yeah, well, apparently this was in 50 Apatosaurus zone where 67 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,920 it's just everything's on easy mode unless you're looking for a 68 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,480 head. So they ended up pulling out the 69 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,280 entire body minus the head, and they flew it out by helicopter, 70 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,360 of course, because that's the way that dinosaur people do it. 71 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:25,440 And it was I guess 2700 kilograms, which doesn't sound 72 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,920 as big as I would expect a rock of dinosaur to be. 73 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,680 We've already established that me and the the metric system or 74 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,640 like no bueno. So to me I'm like, is that just 75 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,840 like a ton? That's a lot less than a ton. 76 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,200 How much is that in pounds? Bitch, tell me I'm American. 77 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,000 How would I know? You researched this? 78 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,800 I didn't research that. Well, you should. 79 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,400 Science communicator. Oh yes. 80 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,120 So I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm pretty sure that the 81 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,160 HVAC specialist just arrived, which, but I do think it's very 82 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,800 funny that we are actually going to talk a lot about HVAC today 83 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:22,840 in this episode. And the HVAC guy is coming so 84 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,600 well, last we left off, my dogs were barking at the HVAC guy. 85 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,680 We were talking about this Allosaurus where they they 86 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:37,000 carried out an unknowable size because neither of us can really 87 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,080 translate kilograms. You willfully can't translate 88 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:41,520 them. And I just kind of generally 89 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,960 can't and didn't didn't look them up. 90 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,720 But really, really heavy body, no head. 91 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,640 So sad six years later. Like story of my life. 92 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,360 So true. That could be dirty. 93 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,120 I didn't mean it like that. I didn't mean it like that. 94 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:08,560 OK, Yep, heavy Allosaurus body. It's OK if you're if you're 95 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,680 bottom heavy like this Allosaurus was. 96 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:18,240 So in 1996, a professor from the University of Utah came out to 97 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:23,280 test his new radiological surveying technique, which was 98 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:26,840 not, oh, let me X-ray the ground to see if there are bones. 99 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:29,800 It was huh. I know some of these bones are 100 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,120 radioactive and the dirt isn't. So what if I just took a little 101 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,800 detector up to the quarry wall? Because, you know, we can do 102 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,920 dangerous shit targeted, but we can't take down the whole quarry 103 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:43,880 wall. So let's see if we can find it. 104 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,560 And sure enough, they found the head. 105 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:53,320 So they found a like a, a high source of gamma radiation in the 106 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:59,080 wall, and it was the skull. Yeah, turns out to be a new 107 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,600 species, although it's not the new species, is I. 108 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,360 Know what specimen this is? I didn't know that about its 109 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,800 discovery though. But is this Allosaurus? 110 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,320 Jim Meds and I. Yes, yes, it is. 111 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,280 Yeah, yes. Previously known as Allosaurus 112 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,000 fragilis, yes. Yeah, I think fragilis is a 113 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,440 cooler species name. That one's still valid. 114 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,080 There's still Allosaurus fragilis, and now in the last 115 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,040 couple of years, there's this new species, Allosaurus, Jim 116 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,960 Madsenai, which I guess includes this one, but it also includes 117 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,840 the famous big owl that I managed at Museum of the Rockies 118 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,280 Mor 693. So that one is also Jim 119 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,120 Madsenai. But I, again, I don't fucking 120 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:40,640 care. It doesn't make any difference. 121 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,720 I just call it Allosaurus. I'm sorry, I don't care. 122 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:43,920 I'm just going to call it Allosaurus. 123 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,880 Like, it's fine, it's close enough. 124 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,440 It's fine, it's whatever. Well, and Allosaurus and 125 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,680 dinosaur and paleontological species change all the fucking 126 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,640 times. But I do think that they did 127 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,880 give it a pretty lame name because as you said, it's a very 128 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:03,680 Ichabod Crane story and I feel like Allosaurus Ichabod Ansys 129 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,680 has been a significantly cooler name. 130 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,960 Forget your years of dedication to Utah paleontology, Jem 131 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,720 Madsen. Fuck off. 132 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,040 It's Ichabod Ensis. Ichabod Ensis. 133 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:27,240 I mean, yeah, so I have exactly 1 image for this episode because 134 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,120 they did a reconstruction so that they could try and to show 135 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,159 you how far the head was away from the body. 136 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,840 Oh my God. First off, this is hilarious. 137 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:45,000 So I'm looking at it's like a two-part, it's like a two-part 138 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,800 image. It's like the actual skeleton 139 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,560 itself still embedded in the rock and the skull above it. 140 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:53,280 And then it's like a schematic drawing next to it to just show 141 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,480 you what elements are there and what not. 142 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,760 And yeah, I mean, I'm is that scale bar? 143 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,200 Is that in, is that in? What is my sense of like, is 144 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,200 that full thing like a meter? If so, and the head is only like 145 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,040 a meter a meter and 1/2 from the rest from its torso. 146 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,080 But apparently they it took them six years and looking for gamma 147 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,040 radiation to find that find that head. 148 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,200 There's so many that's. A great question I. 149 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,800 There's so many jokes to be had. But it is like this image is 150 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,160 just hilarious. Also because it kind of looks 151 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,720 like they like there's no border on the image and because the 152 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:33,120 head is so far away from the body, it kind of looks like it's 153 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,160 floating and maybe was supposed to be part of a different image 154 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,880 like it's graphically. It looks like bad Photoshop. 155 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,400 Like it really does. Looks like someone lassoed the 156 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,160 skull and then like accidentally moved it and saved the image and 157 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:53,800 we're like ah fuck. Yeah, yeah. 158 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,960 So like regardless of what that measurement is, it's pretty far 159 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,160 separated from the rest of the body. 160 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,520 And like the rest of the body isn't complete. 161 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,360 There's, you know, there's some missing feet and stuff, but 162 00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:09,960 you've got most of the backbone, you've got the ribs, you've got 163 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,560 at least one full arm you've got. 164 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:15,920 Got the pelvis? A confusing array of legs, 165 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,920 pelvis and most a big chunk of the tail. 166 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:23,960 So like to have that complete of a skeleton and then just have 167 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,360 the head fucking off in the distance. 168 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:29,240 What do you think happened? Oh, I mean that to me. 169 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,200 Well, OK, it also kind of looks like it's in death pose. 170 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,120 I'm gonna say that too. Where the curl, the tail is 171 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,880 curled and the head, even where it is, if you imagined it had 172 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,160 like a giraffe neck, it could almost be that dramatic arch of 173 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,960 a death pose. So part of me wonders if that 174 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,440 is, I mean like for I have two thoughts. 175 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,880 One is water and just being in a river and your head being the 176 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,120 part, like the end of the tail is also not articulated. 177 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,120 It's nearby, but it's also not articulated. 178 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,280 So these distal parts that aren't as connected as well as 179 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,360 like that torso could have been moved by water in this colluvial 180 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,280 system and it could have also been predation. 181 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,800 I think other folks would also say the head got ripped off and 182 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,040 they were eating the head like a few feet away. 183 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,800 I don't know. So a death pose in dinosaurs. 184 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,800 What we mean is that dinosaurs have a tendon. 185 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,480 Birds do this too, where they have a tendon that runs along 186 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,680 the back of their neck, and when they die in a way where that 187 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:27,600 tendon dries or gets heated, their, yeah, their neck curls 188 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,160 back and their head kind of curls back towards their butt. 189 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,760 And this looks to me almost like it did that so hard that it 190 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,120 flung its own head off. Yeah, Taphonomy, like I would 191 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,280 say it's, well, yeah, I mean, yes, yeah, super dramatic. 192 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,040 And then right once it like got the Super bend, then that neck 193 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,680 and skull is even more susceptible to whatever's around 194 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:52,400 it. Yeah, because you flexed her so 195 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:53,480 hard. Yeah, it looks like they're 196 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,040 doing like an epic backbend, but they're like point of contact is 197 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,520 like the head and tail, which is bonkers. 198 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:06,400 Yes, yeah, yeah. So that's that very silly image. 199 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:11,680 And it sounds like, oh, this is like such a crazy story. 200 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:14,200 These dinosaur bones are radioactive enough that you can 201 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,840 detect them with detector things, Geiger counters, and 202 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,160 whatever. Detectors. 203 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:26,360 In fact, detector, In fact, after reading this and prepping 204 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:31,240 for this episode, I am now very concerned about how many fucking 205 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:36,480 fossils are radioactive because it's not uncommon. 206 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,280 It's pretty common. We're going to talk about a 207 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,560 couple like big formations, but it's something that for reasons 208 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:45,680 that we'll discuss later, you should check if you've got a new 209 00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:49,520 fossil locality, double check that it's not radioactive for 210 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,920 reasons that we will be shortly discussing. 211 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,440 And the reason that it's not that uncommon is because of the 212 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,720 way that uranium behaves. So we're specifically talking 213 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,840 about uranium and like it's what are those? 214 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,000 The children? It's little children. 215 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,320 'S daughter products. So uranium is the family tree 216 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:09,800 daughter products. Thank you. 217 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,800 Yes. So uranium is radioactive. 218 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,720 It's super fucking heavy as far as elements go, which is 219 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,920 important because that makes it hard to accumulate. 220 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,320 Anything that's heavy doesn't exactly get like moved around 221 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,160 super easily. So uranium, yeah. 222 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,480 How do you think that you can move uranium from one place to 223 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,640 the other? Don't say bombs or tries, but 224 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,600 like geologically how do you get accumulation of? 225 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,440 Uranium, well, I am super biased, right? 226 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,800 For like multiple reasons. I've worked with tons of 227 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:50,200 radioactive fossils and I am married to a man who has studied 228 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,800 uranium for like his PhD. So there's a lot of annoyingness 229 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,120 with that. And greatness. 230 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,360 He's above my head right now. Hello, you're smart. 231 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,400 Didn't talk too much. I already told him I was like, 232 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,000 we're talking about radioactive stuff. 233 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,520 He's like, well, the two different chains of decay. 234 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,760 And I was like Nope. No. 235 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:11,760 Sorry, you can totally hear me. Sorry. 236 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,080 Oh, but what I was going to say is back to your question and not 237 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,200 my marital situation. I know for a fact from working 238 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,840 at Arches National Park where we have a lot of these rock units 239 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,880 that produce really radioactive bones that quite literally 240 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,080 organic material is one of the sinks and sources of 241 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,360 radioactive. So like uranium. 242 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,840 And in fact have used finding dinosaur bones to know where 243 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,760 uranium deposits could be. And it's literally like in the 244 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,520 matrix as the bones. I would say most, although I'm, 245 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,080 I don't study uranium. So Kelly, you can argue with us 246 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,160 later, but as far as I know, most uranium deposits happen we 247 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,320 will because of hot groundwater, right? 248 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,880 So picking that up and depositing it somewhere and that 249 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,800 sort of stuff can move really nicely through sedimentary rocks 250 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,160 and uranium will full precipitate out when it meets 251 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,320 carbonaceous material like you were talking about. 252 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:12,720 So not only is uranium likely to be found with fossils, it's more 253 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,560 likely to be found in the fossils than in the surrounding 254 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,120 sediment because it's carbonaceous material that 255 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,440 causes it to fall out of that super stinking hot groundwater. 256 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,880 So you find it in fossils, and you should find it in fossils 257 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,240 pretty much anytime that uranium has like dipped near them. 258 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:36,000 You're probably going to find uranium as long as it is coming 259 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,400 in before they're fully per mineralized. 260 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,480 So the uranium is part of the per mineralization process for 261 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,440 these things. It's not going to be a track. 262 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,520 Like if I took a fossil bone now and I put it in the ground and 263 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,200 ran uranium past it, the uranium's not going to do 264 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,040 anything because what's happening in a lot of cases is 265 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:58,080 the saying this word when our first episode of Season 3 was 266 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:04,320 urine is very different for me. But the urinal atom, I don't 267 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:05,200 know if that's actually how you say. 268 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,200 I have a minor in chemistry and I don't know if that's how you 269 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:13,120 say it. I think it is, but I'm concerned 270 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,840 that it's kind of like a Uranus thing where that's not really 271 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,840 how you say it. Whatever, they're all nerds. 272 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,240 They can handle it. So the urinal atom which is UO 2 273 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,000 plus plus I guess that it can actually attach with two 274 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,160 adjacent phosphates. So it is more it's really likely 275 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,320 to precipitate out and replace the calcium in your bones. 276 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,280 So it actually is like per mineralizing you. 277 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,880 Is that why? Kicking out calcium. 278 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,440 Is that like, what, when people get straight up like Chernobyl 279 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,400 and their bones like are destroyed from the inside out, 280 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,440 Is that what's happening? Is that the Oh, never mind, 281 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,960 never mind, let's not talk about. 282 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,960 That I'm making that face because that sounds disgusting. 283 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,400 I do have a funny story about Chernobyl later. 284 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:58,720 Oh yeah, super. Funny I. 285 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:00,360 Do. But yeah, I don't, I don't, 286 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,680 we're not going to talk about the degree of damage that it's 287 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:05,200 causing. These animals are dead. 288 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,400 These are dead animals. They're not getting naked by 289 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,359 uranium juice. They're becoming one with the 290 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,000 uranium juice as part of their fossilization. 291 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:20,440 So I have a whole bunch of uranium fossils here. 292 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,680 Looking for fresh fashion with a science twist? 293 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,840 Be sure to check out Geopedal Fabric, Megan's clothing 294 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,160 company. These geek chic designs look 295 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,880 fantastic and make for excellent conversation starters. 296 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,760 Oh, you like my shirt? Thank you. 297 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,800 It's based on trace fossils from a penis worm. 298 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,800 Head on over to geopedalfabric.com and use code 299 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,960 WEIRD and DEAD for 10% off. Are you looking for the best 300 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,840 possible dinosaur or fossil related book for a kid in your 301 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:49,920 life? Amy wrote one. 302 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,760 It's got these amazing touchable illustrations and while it is 303 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,000 completely child friendly, some of our favorite not so 304 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,600 appropriate animals are hidden throughout. 305 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,440 Get your copy of the Fossil Keepers Treasure today wherever 306 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:05,200 you buy books. Oh, with spider webs that I was 307 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,600 going to show you because I have a have a bunch of petrified 308 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,000 wood. Well, so the story with this. 309 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,520 Oh, it's very. Is that super betrayal? 310 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,720 OK, I was going to. OK, OK. 311 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:24,360 So this type of petrified wood is I'm doing the the makeup 312 00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:26,040 girly thing. You know how they put their hand 313 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,800 behind so that your camera will actually focus. 314 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:29,920 So fucking smart. I've got to give credit where 315 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,520 credit is due. Those are some video smart 316 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,440 girls. So I'm only holding up pieces 317 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,640 that have blue because this petrified wood is from the 318 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,960 Miocene. It's not something I'm studying. 319 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,440 It's something that we're collecting as rocks just for fun 320 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,400 because you're allowed to do that out by Saddle Mountain in 321 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,400 central Washington. And it comes in a lot of 322 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,800 different types and shapes. And the stuff that I'm holding 323 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,480 up here is all the not so technical term for it is bog 324 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,560 wood, because it's basically these these chunks of slightly 325 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:05,440 rotting wood that fossilized. And so they kind of exploded a 326 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,560 little bit during the fossilization process. 327 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,720 So they're like cemented together chunks with silica. 328 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,360 And in some cases like this one that I was showing you, that 329 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:19,120 silica went like full hog. And so you just get a bunch of 330 00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:22,200 silica as well. So this blue chunk is on top of 331 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,880 the stick and then the rest of it is just straight up agates. 332 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,000 But the blue stuff is the only stuff that has uranium in it. 333 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,600 And we didn't know that it had uranium in it. 334 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,000 We just went and we collected a whole bunch of this cool 335 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,480 petrified wood and we surrounded our fucking house in it until 336 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,440 like 2 years ago when someone was like, Oh yeah, highlight 337 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,040 Opal. It's, it's glows green under 338 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,320 shortwave UV length. And that's how you know that 339 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,760 it's got uranium in it. And so we tested a bunch of 340 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,720 things in our house and we discovered that anytime you have 341 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,400 blue on these faucets, that's got a whole bunch of uranium in 342 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,400 it. Do you know how hot they are? 343 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:05,160 I do a little bit because a we got an ancient, Oh my God, 344 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,280 Geiger County. Hey, shit works man. 345 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,600 It's like the ideas that that hasn't changed. 346 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,800 It's not changed. Yeah. 347 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,720 As long as it it has to be. You have to calibrate them and 348 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,480 recalibrate them every once in a while though. 349 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,920 Yeah, well, and you can't this this one has batteries that you 350 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,720 have to take out. You can't leave them in. 351 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:28,040 You know, you want to prevent corrosion. 352 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,920 But it's like, I think it's from the 40s or the 30s. 353 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,840 It's pretty, pretty goddamn old, this Geiger counter. 354 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,720 So I know that, but also I sent some pieces to a TikTok friend 355 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,320 who's a chemist and he tested them for me and was like, you're 356 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,960 safe, you're fine. Oh my God that is like the best 357 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,360 use of TikTok I've ever heard of. 358 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,920 That's excellent. Yeah. 359 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,840 So yeah, it's super, super common and it happens a lot in 360 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,920 petrified wood. It happens a lot in bones. 361 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,120 And some kind of famous formations for it would be like 362 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:07,640 the Chinley Formation in Utah. And the Morrison is really well 363 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,040 known for radioactivity, which is where this little Allosaurus 364 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,560 came from. And it's a fossil formation that 365 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:18,560 you've had to deal with a lot. The salt wash member of the 366 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,280 foricin of the Morrison was I guess it's the most radioactive 367 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:27,200 because it was a fluvial system. And then groundwater came up and 368 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,320 I guess it's kind of sandy and they, it sounds like maybe there 369 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,480 was some sort of salty brine layer above it. 370 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,400 So you get basically these fluids coming into that sand and 371 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,240 then not being able to penetrate up too much higher. 372 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,840 So that's why you get. And I would also wonder too, I 373 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,040 mean, gold is also something that's very, very heavy, right? 374 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,720 And so you do need to have like a environment, like a river 375 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,080 system that has quite a few point bars and different, you 376 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,000 know, textures and stuff to capture it. 377 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,960 Like, you can't just have it be or just get washed out. 378 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,720 So yeah, like needs to have that interesting overlap. 379 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,080 What I was reading with the the Morrison is it's actually not so 380 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,600 with gold you're talking about, I think they're called placer 381 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,600 deposits, where you get those hot fluids that deposit the gold 382 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,800 and then it weathers out and you want to look for areas where 383 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,120 heavy things are accumulating. But with the uranium and the 384 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:23,560 saltwash member, you're not actually looking for fluvial 385 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,640 movement. It actually was deposited after 386 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,600 the sediment was in place. So it's not like you find 387 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,360 pockets within the saltwash, Remember where it's heavier, you 388 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:36,440 just find it where the groundwater went through. 389 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,400 Yeah, which is weird. Interesting. 390 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,240 Yes. So that's one kind of famous 391 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,240 one. And then another famous one that 392 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,480 is obviously more cool because it involves mammals is the 393 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,200 Hagermann fossil pets, which are in Idaho. 394 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:02,400 And Hagermann isn't super well known for having like uranium in 395 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,080 its bones. It does. 396 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,520 I checked. There's some uranium, there's 397 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,280 some thorium, but all of the little daughter products are the 398 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,000 things that you really find in Hagerman stuff, including 399 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,520 radium. And then it radium decays to a 400 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:21,040 gas called radon, which is why Hagerman fossils are straight up 401 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:26,680 kind of dangerous because they are actually off gassing radon 402 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,800 and they are doing it at rates where if you just have one bone 403 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,040 and you hang around with it, you're probably fine. 404 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,800 But in these places, like at the fossil beds themselves and at 405 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,160 the Natural History Museum at University of Idaho, you have 406 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,160 these cabinets where you're putting all of these things all 407 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,880 together. And as a result, you accumulate 408 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,640 a shit ton of radon because the cabinets are often closed. 409 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,360 And because some genius at some point was like, oh, we have 410 00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:57,160 poison bones. Why don't we put them in a 411 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,160 cabinet together? Let any gas out. 412 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,160 Yeah, we'll put them together and we'll make sure that the 413 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,200 problem just fucking accumulates in the cabinets. 414 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:07,960 Open the doors. Get hit. 415 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,680 By a wave of radar, Yeah, that's what I've heard of being because 416 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,840 people also don't necessarily open like, you know, fossil 417 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,840 collections are. Some stuff doesn't get looked at 418 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,760 for a really long time, even decades. 419 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,760 So if you're not regularly opening up those cabinets, then 420 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,800 yeah, you're at a much higher risk for weight radon poisoning. 421 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,280 Yeah, yeah. As it turns out, radon is the 422 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,240 solution to pollution is dilution. 423 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,040 You want to make sure that the radon is dispersed. 424 00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:41,440 You just don't want to have a concentrated dose of it. 425 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,960 It's OK to have a little bit, which is good because radon is 426 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:50,640 kind of all over the country. Radon is often found in the 427 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,720 ground, so if you have a basement in certain areas of the 428 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,280 country, you need to have a radon detector. 429 00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:58,000 It's heavy. To make sure that things haven't 430 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,520 accumulated. I think that's an important. 431 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:00,400 Part too, right? Like. 432 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,040 It's heavy, so it sinks. So that's why the basement, 433 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,120 that's why cabinets, once you open it, it wants to go to the 434 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:08,480 lower area, which is where you're standing. 435 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,720 So it's again, it's seeking these low lying places. 436 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,520 With this is more for everybody else because you've been a 437 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,240 collections manager, you've seen collections. 438 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,560 So collections of paleontological bones are often 439 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:26,720 stored in like one or two ways. The first way is you put 440 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,680 everything from the same formation together, and then 441 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,320 maybe you do it by like when it was collected, maybe you do it 442 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:40,480 by locality within that area, or maybe you put everything of the 443 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,680 same type together. So like, the same species go 444 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,800 together, and often they're still the same species from the 445 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:52,280 same place. So it turns out that not every 446 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:57,720 species at Hagerman fossil beds collected uranium in their bones 447 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:58,960 equally. What? 448 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,640 There are certain animals that were more likely to be toxic 449 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,800 than others. It's me. 450 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:12,800 It's me. I'm toxic, I absorb so much 451 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,960 radon. Hagerman is a Pliocene site. 452 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,080 What animal would you guess has the most the highest degree of 453 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,280 radon? Well, I know they're famous for 454 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,200 their horses, which were technically zebras, which is 455 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,920 cool. So I mean, like, it's kind of 456 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,800 the only thing I know them for, so I have to go with the horses. 457 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,640 I mean, actually, I know they have a lot in common with 458 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,240 Johnny. Oh, good. 459 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,720 I should have just stopped while I was ahead. 460 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,520 I think A. Pliocene. 461 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,080 Oh, well, that's some, I think it's right, equivalent with like 462 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,200 Mascal. I think it's yeah, yeah, 463 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:47,920 something. Right. 464 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,520 Yeah, I don't know, rattlesnake, maybe something like that. 465 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,200 But I have some animals in common in some of my fossil 466 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,400 localities with Hagerman, so I've gotten real familiar with 467 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,880 their Equus simplicitins bullshit baby horse, which is 468 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,120 one of the ones that I have. But so horses are the worst, 469 00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:09,600 which is interesting on a lot of fronts, just because it's very 470 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,240 funny to me that we can now officially say horses are the. 471 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,040 Worst. Are they the largest in their 472 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,800 ecosystem? What else was big? 473 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,000 I don't think so. There's other big shit still 474 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,160 around, right? I'm pretty sure they still had 475 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,920 things like rhinos in Hagerman. I also mostly only know the 476 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,800 horses, but I've actually read other papers for some of my own 477 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,800 research recently that makes me think I know why horses are the 478 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:42,120 worst. So Kate Barenmeyer, who is a 479 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,560 famous taphonomy person, I've been reading a bunch of her 480 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,200 papers lately. And one of the things that she 481 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,160 has found out because she's, she's done a lot of studies on 482 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,840 like how bones are transported in river systems to try and like 483 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,400 reinterpret like if the bones are super rounded, if they're 484 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,080 really angular, if the bones are sorted by type, how far has this 485 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,800 stuff travelled? What was the environment it was 486 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,240 deposited in? And so one of the, the research 487 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:14,040 things that she did was she took a whole bunch of like relatively 488 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:19,360 fresh bones of things like horses of deer of I think she 489 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:23,240 did cows as well. She like tagged them somehow so 490 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,560 she could find them again. And she tossed them in the river 491 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,960 and saw how far they travelled. And she's also done things where 492 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,280 it's. Like my dream I'm like no bloat 493 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,080 and float. Let's literally take some model 494 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,760 ankylosaurs and shove them into the ocean and see what happens. 495 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,200 Why are we not doing this? Let's just see what happens. 496 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,240 NSF Fund. Me she also, she's done some 497 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,560 experiments where she wanted to know because part of the thing 498 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,640 about transporting your bones is the faster that you absorb 499 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,000 water, like if you're a more porous bone. 500 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,400 So if you have osteoporosis, you're not going to travel as 501 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:00,960 far because you become heavier, right? 502 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,680 So you become harder to move What? 503 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,000 Wouldn't you be easier to move if your bones are super like 504 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,640 riddled with lightness? Well, for a little while, but 505 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,080 then you absorb water. Totes chill, cool. 506 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:20,040 Yeah, yeah. So she found that horse bones 507 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,000 were the most porous. They absorbed the most water 508 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,040 weight and I wonder if that means that that's why they 509 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,280 absorbed probably the most radon and are the most toxic. 510 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,800 They were the they were the thirstiest. 511 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,600 They were so thirsty for that good, good radioactivity. 512 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,360 Just delicious. So these horses are a real 513 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,280 problem. If you have too many in your 514 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,760 collection, just generally they're they're going to be an 515 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,360 issue. And of course the Hagrim and 516 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,760 Fossil Beds National Monument has quite a lot. 517 00:29:54,040 --> 00:30:00,160 So in 2021, they basically migrated all of the specimens to 518 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,920 a new place so that they could stop poisoning their employees. 519 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,360 So they have a new storage facility. 520 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,280 And one of the big things that they did is they put these 521 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,200 special port systems in the cabinets to suck the radon out 522 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,560 so that you don't get that build up of nasty horse gas in your 523 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:23,600 cabinets. However, a an intern came, I 524 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,840 think she was an intern. No, I don't think that's right. 525 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:31,440 An employee came in where her job in 2022, her job was to test 526 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,000 how effective this had been. Basically like she was going to 527 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,200 see if the radon system was working effectively enough 528 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,840 because radon gas obviously is bad, but radon gas can also be 529 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,520 released during prep. So like when you're cleaning 530 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:50,160 fossils, you can release radon. So like anything you do with 531 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,080 these bones, like was kind of dangerous because they're so 532 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,800 they're so heavy. And if you're doing a lot and 533 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,800 you're sitting in the same enclosed space, a lot of 534 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,640 collection vaults are like they're climate controlled, 535 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,240 they're temperature controlled, but everywhere. 536 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,200 There's not a lot of places for gas to escape unless you are 537 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:13,120 doing it on purpose. And she found in 2022 that 538 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:18,000 basically despite all of the changes they had made, they were 539 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,800 still being exposed to 6.3 pico curries per liter of air. 540 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,440 Like people who were working there. 541 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,640 They were getting more when they opened the cabinet because the 542 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,400 cabinets were something like 500 pico carries. 543 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,560 And four is the limit. 4 is the EPA limit that you're supposed 544 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:37,000 to be getting. Oh. 545 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,360 My. God, so this is after all of 546 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,000 these changes, Amy, can you, as a person who has worked at 547 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,920 National Monuments, guess why perhaps these new inventive 548 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,560 cabinets that relied on HVAC systems didn't work? 549 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,240 Lack of funding? I don't know. 550 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:04,200 You're like, OK, good. It's like Obama hated us. 551 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,040 It's all no, he made a lot of. National money system. 552 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:10,800 That was great. Thanks, Obama. 553 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:11,520 He did. He was great. 554 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,120 He's still alive. I don't know why we're talking 555 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,600 about him like he's dead. The horses are dead. 556 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,640 So they weren't running the the horses are dead. 557 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,120 The people who are working around them potentially could 558 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,360 be. So they, when they established 559 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:32,040 this new system, the goal was to run the HVAC system the full 560 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,880 time, basically have the AC on all the time. 561 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,960 That's the only way. And you have to vent the 562 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,280 cabinets all the time. But that's expensive. 563 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:46,080 And so someone at the monument was like, Oh well why don't we 564 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,320 just run it during the day when people are here and not when 565 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,680 they're not. And the answer is cuz then you 566 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,440 poison them. So that is so like, not 567 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,840 surprising at all. And it's hard to because I'm 568 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,760 like, it's not a very well known National Monument. 569 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,080 It's very hard to get there. It's in a very weird place. 570 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,720 The people of that area are delightfully strange, but weird. 571 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,720 And I just am like, is it really even worth it to house these 572 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,720 fossils at all at this point? Like, is it worth it? 573 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,080 Like are we learning anything new about Hagerman horses? 574 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,320 Does anyone? I sound terrible right now, but 575 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,080 I don't fucking care. Like human lives are more 576 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,320 important than any fossil ever, ever. 577 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,960 So it's just like, can you send them to the Smithsonian and make 578 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,600 it be their problem, their department, you know, like 579 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,200 they're federal. Like send them the fucking 580 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:38,440 Smithsonian. Send them. 581 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,760 Because that just seems like it's not like the risk is not 582 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,560 outweighing what we're getting from these fossils in terms of 583 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:51,000 education, research, tourism, to get radoned all the time. 584 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,360 Sounds shitty, sorry people. Well, I don't know if you've 585 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,560 ever heard people complain about the fact that museums now have 586 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,320 so many casts and they don't have the real fossils on 587 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,360 display. Well shut up and stop your 588 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,760 bitching because at least they aren't fucking poisoning you 589 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:15,679 when you come to visit, right? One more content and you don't 590 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:18,400 want to wait, or maybe you don't want to hear ads like this. 591 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,239 Well head on over to our Patreon for exclusive content, early ad 592 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,800 free episodes, and so much more. For only $5 a month, you can 593 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,760 hear outtakes, exclusive episodes, and the stuff we cut 594 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,560 for time, and also the stuff we cut because it was just too much 595 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,199 for the general public. Looking for fresh fashion with a 596 00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,560 science twist? Be sure to check out Geopedal 597 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,880 Fabric Megane Clothing Company. These geek chic designs look 598 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,600 fantastic and make for excellent conversation starters. 599 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,760 Plus, get 10% off using code weird and dead. 600 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,800 Head on over to geopedalfabric.com now. 601 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,800 Yeah, they're poisoning someone in a cabinet somewhere. 602 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,920 They'd actually probably be better off, like on a mounted 603 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:03,240 air display, not in a display case, because then you go right 604 00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,960 back into the same problems. Because again, I think it's 605 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,040 really fascinating that you're saying that because like the 606 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,120 like, you know, best practices for collection management is all 607 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,800 about climate control and all about like managing your agents 608 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,040 of deterioration. And it's kind of funny in a 609 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,240 fucked up sort of way that by doing that really well, you can 610 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:24,880 create a perfect environment to just facilitate a lot of of 611 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,680 radon build up too. But you know, my former museum, 612 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,040 we have a ton of Morrison Formation fossils and we were 613 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,320 Museum of the Rockies is known for its Paleo Histology Lab, 614 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,120 which is all about cutting into the fossils. 615 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,080 So the Paleo Histology Lab manager, she wears a Dos Ometer 616 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,720 ring and she gets it measured on a regular basis and it has never 617 00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:51,840 been high enough to spike anything at all. 618 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,840 I can talk about a lot about why we get freaked out by this, but 619 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,960 there's a lot of things that we do in everyday life that are 620 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,440 really high radiation that are not as bad as like these 621 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,120 fossils. But for her, it made the most 622 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,720 sense since she's literally cutting up Morrison bones. 623 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,920 She would wear it either on her finger or like on a necklace 624 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,040 around her neck. And then she was constantly 625 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,680 being measured at work about how much she was taking in. 626 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,160 Yeah, because you have to remember that there's a 627 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,760 difference between chronic poisoning and acute poisoning as 628 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,840 well. The EPA limit is that limit not 629 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,440 because if you have 5 as opposed to four, you're going to keel 630 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,480 over dead from acute. It's because long term you don't 631 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,440 want to be exposed to more than that all of the time. 632 00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:38,000 So like this, this was an article where this museum 633 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,600 technician who did all this work kind of wrote it up. 634 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,040 And I the the end of the article was basically that Hagerman 635 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,560 since then has been working with another museum in Arizona 636 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,280 because they have poisonous petrified wood. 637 00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:53,600 Right. Chin Lee. 638 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,600 Yeah. How they're using their HVAC 639 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,160 system because I guess their HVAC system is more energy 640 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,680 efficient. So I'm pretty sure they're 641 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,800 having to run the AC or at least the air all the time, which they 642 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,120 should have been doing because that was in the specifications. 643 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,600 So they should have been. I mean, I full up as a moron, 644 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,680 would have also done this if I was in charge. 645 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,760 I would have just kind of forgotten that I was supposed to 646 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,560 run it the full time. Why? 647 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,040 I'm not in charge of this sort of shit. 648 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,280 So like, I can't like fault them too much. 649 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:22,920 But like it did, it was in the paperwork. 650 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,280 So they should have been running it the full time. 651 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,880 But now they're going to be switching hopefully to a more 652 00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:28,920 efficient system. And it's still nice that they 653 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,080 were actually like testing things and like talking about it 654 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,360 and not. That's the nice thing about 655 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,280 like, the Park Service, right? In. 656 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:48,160 Theory in theory, yeah. So yeah, I feel like, Oh yeah, 657 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,600 the the one last thing that I really had about radioactive 658 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,400 bones, so that's Hagerman is bullshit. 659 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,200 You should all test your bones and don't have them straight up 660 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,120 I guess in a closed lock cabinet because sometimes you need to 661 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,640 dilute these things. Oh and I didn't, I didn't. 662 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,840 I still don't fully understand why radon is harmful because my 663 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,880 eyes kind of blur and I get too many flashbacks to that 664 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,880 chemistry minor that I don't really remember or use. 665 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,400 But I did find a table that said basically part of the reason 666 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,320 that radon is fucking terrible is it also decays to a whole 667 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,280 bunch of other shit that you don't want in your lungs, 668 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,400 including. Lead, you know. 669 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,920 So, you know, you're, yeah, you're huffing a whole lot of 670 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,400 shit potentially. That's that's very bad for you. 671 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,600 Yeah. So if you're thinking at this 672 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,640 point listening to this, like, oh, bones are radioactive and we 673 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,000 use these radioactive elements to date things. 674 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,200 Does that mean that you can use bones with radioactive elements 675 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,800 to date things? And I mean no in part because. 676 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,560 They they try. They suck up. 677 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,520 They they try. I'm sure they do. 678 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,920 So there's been a couple studies that have demonstrated that 679 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:07,160 different animals like clams and I think even with the horses, 680 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,360 they suck things up preferentially. 681 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,640 So when you're doing, you know, any sort of radiometric dating, 682 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,760 you're assuming that there is that they started out with a 683 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,640 constant expected level of the parent and the daughter Adam. 684 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,240 But it sounds like at the very least with these horses and with 685 00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:27,480 clams, they are not doing that. They are more preferential to 686 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,640 absorbing radon. So probably you're going to get 687 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,760 some, some weird results anyways. 688 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,400 But the other thing you have to remember is that this was not a 689 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,600 living horse wandering around suffering from uranium 690 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,400 poisoning. This was a horse that died. 691 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,480 And as it was getting per mineralized, which could have 692 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,440 taken, you know, 1000 years, 100,000 years. 693 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,680 But as that was happening, it was being per mineralized by 694 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,600 groundwater. So even if you could actively 695 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,120 date it, what the fuck would you be dating? 696 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,200 Right. You wouldn't be dating when the 697 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:06,520 animal died, you would be dating some general idea of when it was 698 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:12,000 per mineralizing with some problems as far as you know how 699 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,880 that was incorporated. So sadly probably not a great 700 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,120 idea. There's also I think been a 701 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,320 couple studies that have shown that the absorption is not even. 702 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,480 So even if you did for whatever reason want to do this, the 703 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:28,120 outside of the bone or the tooth might have more uranium than the 704 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,720 inside. So like you, you would get 705 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:33,800 different numbers. So it's useful if you want to 706 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,440 find them or kill people slowly, but otherwise? 707 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:43,280 And it's great if it's found in rock rocks, and then you can use 708 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,240 it as a time device if you will. But yeah, no, a buddy at 709 00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:52,480 Petrified Forest, Adam Marsh, has done and tried because he 710 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,120 was in the same lab as Kelly. Well, kind of. 711 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,840 They were both in the Jackson School and Graduate School. 712 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,560 So he would also use the geochronology lab for some of 713 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:06,040 his work, which was trying to get absolute ages from dinosaur 714 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,760 bone and also teeth and see if you, and exactly what you're 715 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,840 saying is like you're not necessarily getting the actual 716 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,800 time of death. And the amounts varied quite a 717 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,800 bit and the numbers weren't making any sense in terms of 718 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,160 when this Chinle thing is Chinle old or Chianti years old. 719 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,840 We have a general grasp on that. And I mean, it's exciting. 720 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,960 I think there are better methods like not necessarily always 721 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,920 using uranium, but other decay product, you know, other 722 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,200 systems. You know, uranium lead is only 723 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,560 one that folks use. I'm sure he's upstairs just like 724 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,040 listing them off. I'm so sorry, but there's a lot. 725 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,960 I feel like I'm like, hello, God, tell me. 726 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,280 But there are a bunch of other things that MO rutile. 727 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,080 I know that's one. Nope. 728 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,720 Just shout radioactive things. Strontium. 729 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,400 No reaction, not yet, not yet, but there are other things. 730 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,560 So there it is promising, I do think. 731 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,280 Thank you for this lifetime. If you like the podcast, be sure 732 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,080 to really review a shit listen, not only being able to tell 733 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,040 choice, but we really, really, really appreciate it if you'd 734 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,600 like. So your more big problem is on 735 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,160 fossil theft, especially in the Morris information. 736 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:22,800 Rebecca Hunt Foster gave a great talk. 737 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,240 You can follow Amy on CP. This year where she showed him 738 00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:29,680 that Megan on Instagram and TikTok as Geo and fabric 739 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,880 ownership there on that weird and dead on Instagram and 740 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,640 TikTok. A small pocket is private, but 741 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:40,240 the amount of Morrison fossils that you see for sale on eBay 742 00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:43,120 and everywhere else like give a very strong indication that a 743 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,000 lot of buy puzzle canal, but we don't have a great way of 744 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,720 telling exactly. Where? 745 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,080 Geographically specimen is from at this point, but shit like 746 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,200 these radioactive elements could be really important in that 747 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,760 puzzle too, which is going to be huge for ethics of paleontology. 748 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,320 So that will be amazing if they get there. 749 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,440 So work on that. Rutil Strontium. 750 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,360 Well, that's radioactive fossils. 751 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,640 Except I realized as I was prepping this, I've tested the 752 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,720 wood in my house. I have not tested any of the 753 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:18,320 other fossils in my house. So I thought that for a Patreon 754 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,960 bonus, I could try and assemble this fucking Geiger counter and 755 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,000 we could all watch me struggle. Not only did I have a chemistry 756 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,120 minor, Amy, I was a chemistry tutor. 757 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,040 Like I was paid to teach people shit that I don't remember. 758 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,600 Thank you for listening. If you like the podcast, be sure 759 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,880 to rate and review us on your listening platform of choice. 760 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,360 We really, really, really appreciate it if. 761 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,280 You'd like to hear more and support the show? 762 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,080 You can follow us on Patreon for some exclusive bits or on our 763 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,680 various social media platforms. You can follow Amy on Instagram 764 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,440 at Mary Anning's Revenge. And Megan on Instagram and 765 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,600 TikTok as geopedal fabric or both of us at weird and dead on 766 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,760 Instagram and TikTok. Our theme song is Unlock Me by 767 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,160 Pause Canal. Cover art was provided by Chris 768 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,920 Spencer and the hosts. And this has been hosted and 769 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,600 researched by us, Amy Atwater and Megan Weatherall. 770 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:20,280 Thank you for listening. Well, I opened this up and found 771 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:26,360 that there's no batteries. So I was going to go pause. 772 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,120 I'm going to pause the recording so it's not 7000 years long and 773 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:30,440 go see if I can find some batteries.