1 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:07,200 You're listening to Weird and Dead, the paleontology podcast 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,480 that tells evolution's most embarrassing and bizarre 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:11,080 stories. I'm Megan Weatherell. 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,600 And I'm Amy Atwater, and we are two living scientists who are 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,360 weirdly excited about dead things. 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,720 On this episode, we'll discuss how we are both, some may say, 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,160 irrationally afraid of seals, but we're going to stand by our 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,680 phobia and we're going to convert you to. 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,360 We'll also talk about some of the many animals that have dined 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,720 on humans and our ancestors for millennia, including lions and 11 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,920 tigers and fucking hyenas. And birds. 12 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,400 And alligators and snakes. And unless you two like eating 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,840 people, you'll probably not want to eat during this or frankly, 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,000 any of our podcast episodes. So like always, please check the 15 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,320 warnings in the description because we told you so. 16 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,320 A fun fact about me that sort of relates to the story is that I 17 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,800 once had to swim across a river that was freezing cold because I 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,960 was on a backpacking trip and we didn't know how big the river 19 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:09,480 was going to be. And there were seals in the 20 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,360 river. And I was terrified the whole 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,720 time that the seals were going to get me. 22 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,200 And everybody made fun of me saying seals don't eat people 23 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,360 and you know, hint, hint for today. 24 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,680 Maybe I wasn't so wrong. I mean, were you crossing that 25 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,920 river in Antarctica? I mean like. 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,840 Listen, if some seals do it, all seals do it. 27 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,160 That's how nature works. Were they smaller than me? 28 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,000 Yeah, but they're better swimmers. 29 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,920 But. It's in their jeans for sure. 30 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,800 And I feel you. Piranhas are smaller than you 31 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,600 too, so and they can take you down. 32 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,960 And there was a pack of them I. I think seals are freaky anyway. 33 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:50,960 And then today I learned more. So we'll we'll get into it. 34 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,560 All right, so today's episode is all about will this eat you? 35 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,120 Has this eaten you? I'm sure we'll come up with a 36 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,040 much catchier title, but Things that Ate Humans is the general 37 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,960 theme for today. So, So we are going to start off 38 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,080 today with a story about Djokotian or a dragon bone cave 39 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,960 in China where we have found a lot of Homo erectus bones. 40 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,440 Like a lot. They appear to be have 41 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,320 accumulated between about 700,000 years ago and 230,000 42 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,760 years ago. There's maybe some evidence of 43 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,960 artifacts, maybe some evidence of fire. 44 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,680 And when all of this was discovered, it was this big blow 45 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:33,040 up of like here we have what is clearly a cave home for this 46 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,160 group of people. That's maybe not entirely the 47 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,320 case, because it turns out that if you take a very careful look 48 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,080 at all of these bones, you notice some weird patterns. 49 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,920 First off, there are five skull caps, meaning the back of your 50 00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:52,480 skull. There's no faces, just skull 51 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,080 caps. Second off, there are some long 52 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,200 bones, but not nearly as many as we usually have in the body. 53 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,560 And all of the long bones that are there are really 54 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,560 fragmentary. They look like they've been 55 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,400 broken open and chewed on. So there was some interpretation 56 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,360 for a little while that maybe this was cannibalism, but when 57 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,960 you look at the pattern of bones being broken, it comes up with 58 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,520 consistent comparisons to a slightly different animal, 59 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:19,400 hyenas. Why? 60 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,320 Hyenas are well known for cracking open bones to get at 61 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,520 the marrow. I've seen terrifying videos of 62 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,760 this. I've watched yes videos of a 63 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,000 hyena going through like, just like someone just threw in like 64 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:36,560 this hunk of like pig neck into this hyena cage and within 30 65 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,320 seconds the entire thing was gone. 66 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,040 Yeah, Gone. Yeah, they. 67 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,440 So they will eat chunks of bone. They definitely like the marrow, 68 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,160 so they crack open bone. They love brains, so they like 69 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,600 to bite off faces because that's the most breakable part of a 70 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,920 skull to get to the the meaty insides. 71 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:01,160 So there's two marks essentially from hyenas, probably the more 72 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,240 correct interpretation in my opinion. 73 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:04,640 You know what, It's still controversial. 74 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,880 Some people still think people were living there and just 75 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,480 occasionally getting eaten by hyenas. 76 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,280 But other scientists, including myself, suspect that this is 77 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,480 actually a hyena den. And it's not so much showing 78 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,480 like 500,000 years of humans living in a cave so much as it 79 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,680 is 500,000 years of hyenas living in a cave pulling in 80 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,640 their prey, which is people. And that's actually kind of a 81 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,280 theme throughout a lot of our history. 82 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,120 Specifically, hyenas are a big part of our history. 83 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:39,240 This particular species is Paki. Crocutta is the genus, and they 84 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,600 are the giant place to see in hyena. 85 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,480 They're not actually that much bigger than modern hyenas, which 86 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,920 should scare all of us, I think. I think we may have undervalued 87 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,480 the terror that a hyena act. Mad respect. 88 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,560 They were slightly taller and longer, and they lived 89 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,880 throughout Europe and Asia through the Pleistocene and 90 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,320 these sorts of accumulations of bones. 91 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,200 Where you see hyena bite marks, you see some places hyena 92 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,080 coprolite, so poop fossils. These are common. 93 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,280 There's a couple sites in France. 94 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:17,480 There's a couple sites in Spain I saw one of in Israel of a 95 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,520 slightly smaller species of hyena. 96 00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:25,080 So yeah, hyenas were really fucking up our shit for millions 97 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,360 of years. And and it sounds like they were 98 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,480 targeting us on some level too. Like, I I'm sorry if I didn't 99 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,520 catch it. Like are there other animal 100 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,520 bones in these assemblages? Are we by far and away the most 101 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,800 abundant? And if so, why? 102 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,920 It doesn't seem like Homo erectus would be like Homo 103 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,840 erectus is pretty much us. So, you know, it's like, what 104 00:05:44,840 --> 00:05:47,720 about us? I I just can't ever feel like 105 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,080 we're that desirable of a meal. Like we just seem kind of not 106 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,720 like got a lot there. So, like really? 107 00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:00,200 Were we targeted? Listen, if you like brains. 108 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,600 Oh, good call. I think we we've got that going 109 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,200 for us. I don't know that there's any 110 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,040 indication necessarily that they were targeting us. 111 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,280 There are other bones that are pulled into these accumulations. 112 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:16,760 So Joe Codian has a fair number of you know, deer and that sort 113 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,480 of thing. It's just that when we find 114 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,480 these places and we find people, we really hyper focus on the 115 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,840 people. And it's not actually clear if 116 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,160 people were entering the caves initially because there were 117 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,680 other animals that were dead and dying in these caves, because we 118 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,000 probably were scavenging meat for a long time before we began 119 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,960 actively hunting meat successfully. 120 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,960 So it may be that humans kind of sealed their own fate by going 121 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,360 into these caves. There's some evidence on some of 122 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,520 the bones of butchery from humans, so not butchery via the 123 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,840 teeth of a hyena. So it is possible that we he 124 00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:53,000 just willingly walked into traps. 125 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,480 Interesting. Do you think that people ate 126 00:06:55,480 --> 00:07:00,200 hyenas? Was this a mutually predatory 127 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,880 relationship? You know, I haven't seen any 128 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,760 indication that we butchered hyenas. 129 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,600 But I mean, just because you don't see evidence of it, 130 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,360 doesn't mean it didn't happen. And I'm sure Homo erectus was 131 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,600 just as vengeful as modern people could be. 132 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,560 So I'm sure that they ate some hyenas at some point. 133 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:23,040 No, no osteological evidence. Not none so far. 134 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,520 Oh man. It's not just hyenas that have 135 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,720 been eating us. There are many, many, many other 136 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,880 animals that have been found to enjoy the taste of Homo erectus 137 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,800 or Homo sapiens throughout time. Amy, I don't have a better 138 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,200 transition to that. Yes. 139 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,080 And this goes. You know, as I was mass Googling 140 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,480 for this episode and thinking about, you know, I was like, 141 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,720 wow, like prehistoric animals that ate us. 142 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,520 And then I was like, OK, a lot of animals around the world 143 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,880 today will still totally eat us. And you know, a lot of the 144 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,800 classic ones are going to be like your your lions and bears. 145 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,120 And tigers and tigers. And tigers. 146 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:02,760 And tigers. And tigers. 147 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,720 And tigers. Lions and tigers. 148 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,480 Mostly tigers. Mostly tigers. 149 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,520 And you know, I I well, I've had some close encounters with some 150 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,840 grizzly bears, but they've never are brown bears as I'm supposed 151 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,960 to refer to them because the Alaskan in my life is very 152 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,960 opinionated about how you refer to brown bears. 153 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,920 But anyway, I've been real close to them. 154 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,000 Never had them, like in my tent or in my stuff. 155 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,000 But man, I mean, it wouldn't be hard, right? 156 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,080 Just one little swipe and I would have been Grizzly man. 157 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,559 Because in Grizzly Man, his girlfriend dies too. 158 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,080 And her name's Amy, so I was always like. 159 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,120 Fate. Her name was Amy, I should say, 160 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,200 because she got eaten by a bear. So happens. 161 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:50,600 Amazing. I don't. 162 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,160 I don't know if I want to call it an amazing documentary, The 163 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:58,000 Grizzly Man One. It's a Venner Hussag, but it's a 164 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,360 it's pretty good, you know, it's very well done and absolutely 165 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,400 terrifying. But those are like kind of the 166 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,560 typical ones. I mean, but tigers like tigers 167 00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:11,960 who they seem to really enjoy the taste of human. 168 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,960 Tigers love the taste of human. Tigers have killed 373,000 169 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,440 people or more between the year 1800 and 2009. 170 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,800 I'm sorry, wait. What was that number? 171 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:30,040 I'm sorry. 373,000 people in the last 200 years. 172 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,680 I really thought you were just going to say like 373. 173 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,960 No, I thought that was going to be the number. 174 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,040 No. Wow. 175 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,800 They are still. They still kill people, even 176 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,520 though in many places they're protected and like taken care 177 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,240 of. And they're not hungry, they're 178 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,200 just bored. There's I guess, a couple of 179 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:56,040 tigers that are in a location in India where they're like a tiger 180 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,880 sanctuary, which people are not supposed to go into the tiger 181 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,200 sanctuary for a variety of reasons, including tigers. 182 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:07,000 But there's fishing that they do for crabs and things, and they 183 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,080 still get attacked and eaten in their fishing boats. 184 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,720 So there's a video of a tiger launching itself into the river 185 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,600 to try and get on to, like an open canoe structure. 186 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,400 And in that case it didn't succeed. 187 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,480 But they do kill a couple of people every single year, just 188 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,680 in that region alone. So much so that in local 189 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:30,680 villages there are people known as tiger widows who lose their 190 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:34,120 husbands to tigers. Yeah, so Tigers. 191 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:37,880 Wow. Just really, really proof that 192 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,640 we are not as secure and safe as we like to sometimes think we 193 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,400 are. I just those numbers are I'm 194 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,200 still having a hard time wrapping my head around that I 195 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,640 and I feel you know. It got worse, I guess in COVID 196 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,720 because people were kind of desperate for income sources. 197 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,160 So there was like an uptick in tiger death related to fishing 198 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,320 activity, which I believe most of that fishing activity 199 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,280 activity is illegal, primarily because they don't want you to 200 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,800 die via tiger. But desperate times, desperate 201 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,640 measures. Tigers are definitely not 202 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,560 domesticated. They're just one of the big cats 203 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:16,160 that happens to really interact with people a lot and enjoys 204 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,280 eating them. But it's not like cats and 205 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,920 hyenas and filiform creatures are the only predators of 206 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,040 people. You know, seals eat people, 207 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,040 right? Or they try to. 208 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,720 It's. True, it's true. 209 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,520 It's, you know, they are all carnivores, so they're living up 210 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,440 to their family name, that's for sure. 211 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,520 But one of the predators we don't tend to think of, you 212 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:38,840 know, I think we think of big cats. 213 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,480 We definitely think about bears. We even think about wolves and 214 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,160 something like those as as threats. 215 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,840 But really, yeah, no seals, sea lions, like, OK, I wouldn't want 216 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,320 to get like squashed by one, you know, like that wouldn't be a 217 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,320 fun way to go. But in terms of like hunting 218 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:03,640 humans, I'm not a huge. I'd never consider that until I 219 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,680 read The Endurance, which is a book. 220 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,800 It's a nonfiction book about Ernest Shackleton's famous 221 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:17,280 journey to Antarctica and back, which is the epic part, and it's 222 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,160 like the most insane book I've ever read. 223 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,120 And their journey to Antarctica and whatnot. 224 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,480 They get trapped in the ice. All hell breaks loose like it's 225 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,680 just not going well. And multiple people in their 226 00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:33,320 party were stalked and haunted by leopard seals, so I had never 227 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:38,320 heard of leopard seals before besides like maybe just random 228 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,960 mentioning along with other seals. 229 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,320 And then it was like, Oh no, these are giant seals. 230 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,640 I mean they can be like 10 plus feet long. 231 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,840 I mean they're all muscle and blubber. 232 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,440 I don't know if all seals have this, but apparently they have 233 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:57,560 claws on their front somewhere on their paddles. 234 00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:01,120 Their front paddles, which because they can't really use 235 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,560 them for anything. Is it a vestigial feature? 236 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:04,840 I don't know. I didn't dig into it. 237 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,000 I have questions, but they because they can't actually put 238 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,680 any weight on their flippers, so they still are just like don't 239 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,480 make you know, gastropods in their own way. 240 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,320 Are they hunting people on land? They're like they. 241 00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:23,040 So the the dangerous place in both the Shackleton journey, 242 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,080 which took place in like the early 1900s. 243 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,600 No one died on that journey, which is probably the most 244 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:33,760 incredible part of all. But one of them was like stocked 245 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,000 on like kind of right where the ice meets the ocean. 246 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,880 So that seems to be the danger zone for leopard seals. 247 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,960 And then in like the 1980s, a researcher was grabbed by a 248 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,320 leopard seal in that same kind of an environment and his 249 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,360 colleague had crampons on and just like crampon kicked this 250 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,760 seal in the face until it let go of this researcher. 251 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:03,080 And then in 2003, similar situation of a researcher was 252 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,360 right on the shoreline and a leopard seal grabbed her and 253 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,040 dragged her down and actually killed her. 254 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,080 Oh, wow. Yeah, she passed away. 255 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,280 And that's when they investigated this whole report 256 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,320 about how dangerous are leopard seals because there was an 257 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,680 actual fatality, which makes you wonder, you know, with some of 258 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,760 those other early Arctic, I mean Antarctic, wow, sorry, brain, 259 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:30,360 you know, upside down with some of those journeys. 260 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,680 Are there any other cases? Are there? 261 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,840 I mean, it's it's Antarctica. So I'm like, there's probably no 262 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,840 ancient human record of this interaction. 263 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,680 But leopard seals can make it up to like New Zealand and 264 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,560 Australia, sometimes that far north. 265 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,080 So there is a chance for more human leopard seal interaction, 266 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,720 and it really only seems to be a problem when we're right on the 267 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,640 ice and they're still in the water. 268 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,760 And I guess the thought is that we are confused as Penguins 269 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:05,800 because when the leopard seals interact with like scuba divers, 270 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,480 they're super friendly and they even are kind of interactive and 271 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,840 whatnot. So they do not seem to be at all 272 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,040 threatened or at all in predation mode. 273 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,840 They seem to recognize that we're not their prey item, but 274 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,480 maybe being on the ice. And if you want to see what they 275 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,280 do to Penguins, oh man, I feel like it. 276 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,720 Kind of makes sense that they think we're Penguins. 277 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:33,640 Like, you're all, like, swaddled up in all of your warm gear. 278 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,280 You're kind of wondering. Probably just think they hit the 279 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,080 jackpot of the biggest fucking Penguin of all time. 280 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,520 Yes, good point. I wonder if they're like, whoa, 281 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,560 what else would walk on 2 feet out here? 282 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,760 Come on, it's a big. Other fluffy bipedal thing. 283 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,320 So they do love to eat Penguins. They also eat a lot of krill in 284 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,880 different times of the year, but I'm sending you a picture of how 285 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:58,160 they hunt their Penguins. So I just sent you that picture. 286 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:05,320 Through the chat. OK, so I mean the first, the 287 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,880 first thing that you really see in this photo is the nostrils. 288 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,160 Because this leopard seal is launching itself out of the 289 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,680 water, it looks like it like met a Penguin mid Penguin diving 290 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,240 into the water. Like these two animals are 291 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:22,040 colliding mid air and it has happening. 292 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,080 I don't think that's what's happening, but it does look like 293 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,320 the Penguin like voluntarily dove into the leopard seal 294 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,200 mouth. I would not have guessed that 295 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,960 their nostrils were that big, but it looks like it must be 296 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,560 stoked to get a Penguin. Yeah, and the Penguins head is 297 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,800 just straight up in the leopard seals mouth and it the Penguin 298 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,920 doesn't look happy, but the leopard seal sure does, yeah. 299 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,560 Yeah, and so that's a beautiful description. 300 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,200 This is how they actually kill their prey, because they can't 301 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,800 use their little flipper claws and all they really are is a 302 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,160 face full of terrifying teeth. So they just grab kind of like, 303 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,080 I think orcas kind of do this too, where they just grab the 304 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,680 head of the the Penguin and then they just go thwack, thwack, 305 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,480 thwack and actually just flip it out of the water, smacking it 306 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,520 into the water until it breaks open and then they're able to 307 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:17,280 mow down on Penguin innards. So it's yeah, it's a very, it's 308 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,079 not you. You don't, you don't like to 309 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:23,359 envision being a human involved in this situation in any way, 310 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,640 shape or forms. Yeah. 311 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,560 So those are the leopard seals. They're definitely, you know, I 312 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,440 would totally go to Antarctica if the opportunity presented 313 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,200 itself. And I wouldn't have, like, 12 314 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:41,280 anxiety attacks, but I would be afraid of leopard seals. 315 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,720 I mean, they really. They've earned my respect, for 316 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,600 sure. And, you know, don't judge a 317 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,360 cute little seal by its giant nostrils. 318 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:56,040 It might eat your face so. So the seals that I felt were 319 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:02,560 stalking me were harbor seals, which are significantly smaller, 320 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,960 but they have spots just like actual leopards. 321 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,080 So yeah, they didn't get me. They didn't even come close to 322 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:10,240 me. They actually swam away from me. 323 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,440 But how could I really tell that they weren't coming from 324 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:13,840 underneath? It's dark. 325 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:14,840 It's a river. It's. 326 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,200 Cold. I would not have handled that 327 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,640 situation well at all. I feel like we've already, I 328 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,160 don't do well with open water situations usually, especially 329 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,960 the ocean and one time I went kayaking in Alaska and the IT 330 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,000 was just like, yeah, a little harbor seal or something. 331 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,120 But what I don't like about them is how they just pop up right 332 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:36,440 And then then. They're like there. 333 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,360 And they give you this, like, look, and they have kind of 334 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:42,800 those big dead eyes. And then they pop back down. 335 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,400 And then like a minute later they pop back up and they're way 336 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,920 fucking closer to you. Yeah. 337 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:52,200 Like, no, no, no, no, no. You stay away from my boat 338 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,480 buddy. Because like, I would be fine if 339 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,480 I fell into the water or something, but for whatever 340 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,640 reason, it's like the done it, done it. 341 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,160 It's like they just keep getting. 342 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,320 Popping its head up to double check that you're still bigger. 343 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,120 I think they're freaky. I mean, I also think they look 344 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:11,280 like dogs. I mean, they're they just look 345 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,880 like ocean dogs. So that's what I think of too. 346 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,360 But they're like ocean dogs with dead eyes. 347 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:18,840 And really. Teeth. 348 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,440 So yeah, I'm I'm low key rate of seals too and even more so now. 349 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,440 So as far as we know, seals have not really killed that many 350 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,120 people, both in the modern record and in the fossil record. 351 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:34,480 But it is worth pointing out that it's actually pretty 352 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:39,400 difficult to conclusively demonstrate that animal A at 8 353 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,880 Animal B. Because, I mean, a lot of 354 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,920 reasons, but First off, like, sometimes you eat the whole 355 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,800 thing, so that makes it go bye bye, all of your evidence is 356 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,280 gone. Sometimes the bite force that 357 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,320 killed the creature doesn't impact bone, and that's the only 358 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,640 record that we get. So if you're killing something 359 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,080 and eating something, but you don't hit the actual bones hard 360 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,280 enough to leave distinct marks, you're Scott free, you get away 361 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,360 with that evolutionary murder. But there are some other ways 362 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:14,280 that we can tell when animals are consuming one another. 363 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,680 And one of the big ones is just the way that the bones are 364 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,320 accumulated. So do you have a lot of skull 365 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:27,880 caps and not the fronts of faces in Bad Side? 366 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,480 You see just a whole bunch of open skull caps go like, 367 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,120 literally there's no hyena there. 368 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:36,320 It does not matter. That's not a good place to be. 369 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,320 No. So yeah, the way that bones are 370 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,560 accumulated can be a really great indicator that something 371 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,800 ate something else, especially if you are at least looking at 372 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,600 something that has like a modern relative. 373 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,680 So you know, hyenas, we know what their accumulations of 374 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,840 kills look like. Not because there's a hyena like 375 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,560 a dead Paki Kurkata sitting there being like this is me, 376 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,720 this is my stuff, I did this. But because we can look at the 377 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,240 way that modern hyenas accumulate bones and destroy 378 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,440 bones and eat bones and poop all around the bones. 379 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,840 So it's one part. Did you actually leave marks? 380 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,520 Are those marks actually diagnostic and and or do you 381 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,680 accumulate bones in a weird and specific way? 382 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,000 So those are the ways that we can tell specifically that 383 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,120 certain animals have eaten us. But if they don't leave those 384 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:31,040 Marks and they don't leave any accumulation, like a specific 385 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,160 accumulation, then yeah, you're you're kind of screwed. 386 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,280 You're not going to get. So there's a lot of animals that 387 00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:40,920 definitely have eaten people that we have no idea really ate 388 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,400 people because they would eat one at a time or something and 389 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,200 maybe not put big old marks in its skull. 390 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,360 And what are the chances? We've already discussed before, 391 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:55,200 but I we will reiterate this constantly Fossilization is an 392 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,840 extremely rare process. This does not happen to every 393 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,800 single skeleton that ever existed. 394 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,120 That'd be cool. It'd be like the catacombs 395 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,200 everywhere. But that's not how it goes down. 396 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,720 So even if an ancient human, which again, in terms of the 397 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,920 like, what they represent ecologically is a very small 398 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,160 part of their ecosystem, so humans are already a really 399 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,280 small part of your ecosystem. You're way more likely to find 400 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,200 an ungulate than a human because of just sheer numbers. 401 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,520 And then you happen to have to find the human that was nibbled 402 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,480 on by some other animal and be able to tie that, like it just 403 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,640 makes it so much more complicated than the whole 404 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,120 process of fossilization already is. 405 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,160 So it's has to be a perfect storm to have fossil evidence 406 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:46,200 that we find that indicates that something, some animal was 407 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,080 eating us, which is amazing that we have as much as we do because 408 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,320 that means that means a lot of animals have eaten us overtime, 409 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,720 which is, you know we should be honored. 410 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,840 We should be honored. We're a part of the animal 411 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,960 Kingdom. It's it's it's a it's a rite of 412 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,280 passage. Maybe we're not sitting in the 413 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,080 place on the food chain that we really would love to occupy, 414 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,240 which is the Tippity tippity top. 415 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,720 But we are still involved. We are still part of the food 416 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,120 chain all throughout our history. 417 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:18,280 Yeah, exactly. And it sounds like when I mean, 418 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,840 I think I mentioned this to you Megan, that I I worked on these 419 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,720 itty bitty fossil primates monkey things in Graduate School 420 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,600 and it was usually just isolated teeth that we would work with. 421 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,640 And one of the things that we would look for on the teeth is 422 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,800 sometimes they would have this, it's really pretty. 423 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,920 It's like acid etching on it and have these beautiful kind of 424 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,200 lines and discoloration looked like it had been soaked in acid 425 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,880 for a little while. And those were teeth that had 426 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,040 been digested by something that had eaten that little Oma Maya 427 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,480 had eaten that little primate. And then as it the teeth again, 428 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,160 yay enamel being so Hardy, it made it through your poop. 429 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,400 So we were finding pooped out monkey teeth, essentially. 430 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,160 I can't believe you have me saying monkey. 431 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:08,760 I've permeated your brain. But it's it's pretty cool that 432 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,920 we could but what we don't know is who ate it. 433 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,480 What we'd have to look at is again it wouldn't be a for sure 434 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,560 there are direct tooth marks that fit this predators tooth 435 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,520 size. It would have to be like, well 436 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,840 we know that there's this creodon out here so it might 437 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,440 have been this creodon. We know that there are birds out 438 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,120 here, so it might have been this bird, but besides that, it's 439 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,280 just we don't have any direct evidence to say this monkey 440 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,760 thing was eaten by this crocodile. 441 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,200 It is. But it's remarkable to me how 442 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,920 many fossils not of humans, this is not a human related thing are 443 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,120 found that we probably are just like decayed owl pellets where 444 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:49,640 owls just went and they collected, they ate a whole 445 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,080 bunch of animals, they puked up their bones and then they kind 446 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,120 of left them all in a pile. Yeah, there's a lot of fossil 447 00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:59,520 sites that are like that, which is thanks owls. 448 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,200 Thank you, Thank you. You did all of the hard work for 449 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,600 us. You put all of the bones, just 450 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,280 the bones into this great little fossil friendly environment and 451 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,160 then you left. It was great. 452 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:13,880 Like, thanks. And then you probably pooped on 453 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,640 it, which probably helped keep the oxygen out. 454 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,000 Like, thank you. So yeah, it's it. 455 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,640 But it is, you know, this is a fun topic and it is a lot of 456 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,640 detective work as well. And it does sound like, you 457 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,720 know, while a lot of animals out there are would love to eat us, 458 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,560 it does sound like it has definitely been worse in the 459 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,840 past. And I think that we're going to 460 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,000 take a quick little break and then we will get into more 461 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,120 fossil horror stories of man eaters. 462 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:50,240 So we'll be right back looking for the perfect new nerdy 463 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,960 addition to your wardrobe? How about fancy fossil shoes 464 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,840 made by Megan herself? Her store Geo Pedal fabric.com 465 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,840 has all the best nice butt niche footwear like trilobite high 466 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,360 tops, how freaking cool and Mosasaur decorated lace UPS. 467 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,480 Enter code weird and dead at checkout for 10% off your order. 468 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,840 If you're enjoying this episode, consider supporting us on 469 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,120 Patreon. You can enjoy tons of bonus 470 00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:19,560 content for less than you'd pay for a bag of plastic, quote UN 471 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,840 quote dinosaurs that somehow always has dimension on it. 472 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,360 Welcome back from what I'm sure was a really invigorating, very 473 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:31,880 interesting and consumer directed commercial break. 474 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,600 And if you also would love us to give you just as good of a 475 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,440 commercial break as we just did. Yeah, you could pay us. 476 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,280 We would. We would take your money. 477 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:42,960 We would. Now we're going to talk about 478 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,240 what else has killed people in the past. 479 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:46,960 Yeah. Yep. 480 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:57,200 More man eaters and there was a Just Dance song for it, like. 481 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,280 Oh, was there? Anyway. 482 00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:04,200 And it looks good. Yeah, that looks. 483 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,680 That looked really smooth. Yeah, you can break that one out 484 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,080 at the club for sure. How do you think, like all those 485 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:17,880 men's I ate, obviously. The club. 486 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,440 I thought you were just pregnant, but. 487 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,920 And we know that if a male paleontologist found my remains, 488 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,960 they would assume that. I ate this. 489 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:32,160 Baby and that I didn't actually have a was a female with the 490 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:33,840 fetus. They would go. 491 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,560 These men were cannibals. And yet somehow they would make 492 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,560 a diorama that made it look like you were fucking the fetus for 493 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,360 sure. Yeah, I mean, it would just be 494 00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:48,440 totally. Anyway, This is why everyone is 495 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,680 needed in science. All perspectives are needed in 496 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,840 science. Help us. 497 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,640 That's actually a great segue to what I want to talk about, which 498 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,120 is. It is terrifying. 499 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,920 Well, you know this about me is that I do study primate 500 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,640 evolution or I did. I don't really don't do too much 501 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,560 of it these days, but for Graduate School, my focus was on 502 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,080 early primate evolution, which meant like the fun cute little 503 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,560 things from like 50 million years ago. 504 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,240 Okay like cute little lemurs and tar seers and like little pro 505 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,800 simians and just cutie patooties. 506 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,880 And we actually have like a decent sample sizes with those 507 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,720 fossils and we have a fairly good idea of timing and geologic 508 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,080 time and geochronology. But when you start to get into 509 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:45,640 human evolution, then you get into one of my huge pet peeves, 510 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,360 which is the entire field of human evolution. 511 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:53,720 Actually, I used to love it. It totally inspired me as a very 512 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,120 small child, and then as I became more and more involved in 513 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:02,360 academics and realized how gatekeepy it was and how very 514 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:09,120 just not friendly, very competitive, very cutthroat, 515 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,400 some characters who do not have the best reputation. 516 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:19,560 And what bothers me the most of all is these huge, overarching, 517 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,280 like, conclusions drawn from like, a couple of bones, right? 518 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,760 Like we're like, oh, it's a whole new species of humans and 519 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,040 it's based on one tooth. And if you study any other type 520 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,640 of animal besides maybe Raptor dinosaurs, which have a similar 521 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,280 problem, and I blame pop culture, you know that you 522 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,440 actually need way more than just like one freaking isolated tooth 523 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,800 to have any good handle on if you have an actual new species 524 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,480 or not. Because individuals vary, guys, 525 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,280 we all vary. This is why you need a big 526 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,760 enough sample size so you can say anything about the 527 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,320 population, because we're all variable. 528 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,680 Look at the heights of Megan and I. 529 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,120 We are very different. No, this is an online venue. 530 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,080 I could be tall. You don't know. 531 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,080 You don't know how tall I am. She could be short. 532 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,680 Look at her. She's so small. 533 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,480 She's she's just head level with the washer. 534 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,560 She's not sitting. This is her real height. 535 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,880 Anyway, this is my little like, I remember writing about this 536 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,680 man eater in Graduate School for our blog because I was so over 537 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,240 learning about human evolution and all of what felt like really 538 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,720 overdrawn conclusions based on really limited sample size. 539 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,080 And so I became obsessed with this kind of offshoot topic 540 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,320 that's tangentially related to human evolution because it's 541 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,640 about the crocodile that ate early humans. 542 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,280 And that just brought me, it just brought me such joy to know 543 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,800 that A that animal existed and B people were studying it and 544 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,040 bringing light to the fact that not it's it's not all about the 545 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,160 people, man. Like, there's some really cool 546 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,840 other animals who found us delicious. 547 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,880 And that's how I learned about Crocodilus anthropophagus, which 548 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:14,280 is arguably one of my favorite scientific names of all time 549 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,520 because it literally translates to the human eating crocodile. 550 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,920 So Crocodilus crocodile. And then Anthro is human and 551 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,400 Fagus is to eat. So it is the human eating 552 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,480 crocodile. And it it was, it was awesome. 553 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,240 It was awesome. It lived around the same time as 554 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,520 Homo habilis, so we talked about Homo erectus earlier. 555 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,280 Homo erectus is one of the later humans, one of the bigger, 556 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,120 taller ones that again looked a lot more like modern. 557 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,480 Yeah, And then Homo habilis lived earlier. 558 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:55,640 Homo habilis lived like 1.81.9 million years ago, I want to 559 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,120 say. And that's where we also get 560 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,400 Crocodilis anthropophagus in this place, this very famous 561 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,640 site that I'm sure a lot of folks have heard of, which is 562 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,600 Olduvai Gorge. So old of I Gorge is one of this 563 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,920 like localities that people make a really big deal about in the 564 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,160 human evolution game because it's been really productive and 565 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,920 has given us a lot of understanding of this kind of 566 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,560 Plyo Pleistocene time and that has quite a few different 567 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,800 records of human evolution sites. 568 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,360 So we literally have homo habilis there about 1.9 million 569 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,360 years ago. And then we also get 570 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,280 Paranthropus Boise Eye, which is my favorite of the weird 571 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,880 australopithecines, which is like The Nutcracker Man, his 572 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,800 Paranthropus Boise Eye. And then we also get Homo 573 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,320 Erectus at this site and Homo Sapiens there too, because 574 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,720 Africa was a happening place for human evolution. 575 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:55,040 But Crocodilus anthropophagus lived at the time of Homo 576 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,120 habilis and apparently really liked to eat them because we 577 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,120 have some pretty solid fossil evidence of their predation. 578 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,160 And again, we talked about this earlier. 579 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,280 How do you know? We know with this case because 580 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,800 of these pits and grooves and scratches that we found. 581 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,480 And it's a, it's essentially a foot of Homo habilis that was 582 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,040 preserved. So we've got like the talus, 583 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,560 which is the ankle bone, it's called the astragalus and other 584 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,560 animals. We've got the meta, whatever 585 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,080 those annoying bones metatarsals. 586 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,920 There we go. And they've all got these 587 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,720 scratches and a lot of pits. So that's the number one thing 588 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,560 that they're looking for. And they also have material from 589 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,080 this crocodile at that site. So they can do a direct 590 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,680 comparison here. Again, this is one of those 591 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,640 perfect storm situations paleontologically, where we have 592 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,240 fossil evidence that something ate this right. 593 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,520 Those pits and grooves are are not random, they are 594 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,040 significant. And they were not produced when 595 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,200 we dug it out of the ground because you can tell the 596 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,720 difference between something that happened while the Organism 597 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,600 was alive versus if you fucked it up excavating it 2,000,000 598 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,680 years later. And we have the other animal, we 599 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,400 have the crocodile and its teeth to literally look at the size of 600 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,679 its teeth and figure out what size pits, grooves, and 601 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:19,000 scratches it would produce. And they match all of these 602 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,440 things on this foot bone. So talk about your Achilles 603 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,159 heel, Homo habilis. But they ate the crap out of it 604 00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:29,400 and it's really, really, really fascinating. 605 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,840 And I was just reading that There's also another Homo 606 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,239 habilis specimen so that the foot is OH 8. 607 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,840 So if you're a huge human evolution nerd, you will know 608 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,840 that specimen OH 8. So there's another one which is, 609 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:48,560 OH 35, which is a tib Fib, So like your lower lower leg, so it 610 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,400 looks like it's a left tib fib. And yeah, it looks like the 611 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,520 proximal ends, the ones closest to the middle, the middle of the 612 00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:00,760 body look like they have feeding traces from like a leopard, like 613 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,840 carnivore. So apparently humans were 614 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,600 delicious not only to reptiles but also to mammals. 615 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,120 And like, we've talked about cats and humans, man, just funny 616 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,920 because I love my cat and I also acknowledge that she will eat me 617 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,360 if I die and she wouldn't take her that long. 618 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,000 She has tried to eat me like she's not waiting. 619 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,080 She's strangers, yeah. No, no, no. 620 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,600 It like she's doing this thing to me lately where she'll like 621 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,720 come up and like sniff and whatnot and then do a gentle 622 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:33,840 like. Just like this little just a 623 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,120 little test bite. I'm alive. 624 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,240 I am alive still. Please. 625 00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:42,000 Like I'm sleeping and she comes up and it's like, hey, and I'm 626 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,280 like I'm still alive. Cat. 627 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,840 Yeah. So it's AI don't know. 628 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,880 I think I I think I put a lot more. 629 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,080 I think I'm projecting into my relationship with my cat and I 630 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,360 think she sees me as a future fancy feast. 631 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,000 So and it's in both of our genes. 632 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,480 Well not mine. I should know better. 633 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,760 Obviously for millions of years we've been attacked by cats so 634 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,600 maybe we shouldn't be like hi cats. 635 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,920 But we are, and cats have a long history of mowing down on us, so 636 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,920 it's just so you can take your classic human evolution sites 637 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,600 and get all excited about that. But there are really cool 638 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,160 animals in there that were also eating us that I think deserve 639 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:25,040 just as much acknowledgement and story time and praise. 640 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,880 Dang it, give them the cover of nature, not just some other. 641 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,160 Anyway, and I digress. So those are things that make 642 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,960 sense to me, but I feel like, you know, with like the leopard 643 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,960 seals, that was just like another unexpected animal. 644 00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:44,480 And I feel like there's probably some other unexpected animals we 645 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,120 haven't talked about yet. And do you have any insight on 646 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:49,160 some? Other weird ones? 647 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,880 Birds. Birds are bad. 648 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,680 I mean like, are we talking like terror birds? 649 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,000 Is there any evidence of those big terror birds with humans? 650 00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:04,160 I don't. I don't think we we overlapped 651 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:05,600 enough. I think terror birds went 652 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,440 extinct a little bit too early on, So, Well, there were there 653 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,440 were some in South America, like in the pious scene, right? 654 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,880 But no, not giant predatory walking birds, but giant 655 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,360 predatory flying birds. Even scarier. 656 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,360 Flying but. I'm That is how I feel about all 657 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,200 animals, right? Like if you can swim in the 658 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,640 ocean and you can pop up your head any which way. 659 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,120 I don't like that. I can't track you if you're a 660 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,520 bug and you can fly. I don't like that. 661 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,440 I can't track you and birds. Yeah, flying is kind of one of 662 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,120 their definitive features. And there is a those. 663 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,080 Penguins. Those worthless Penguins. 664 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,640 Well, that and they're like 6 different times that the ratites 665 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,000 have lost their ability to fly I. 666 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,160 Know they're like, no, no, we're over it. 667 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:58,320 Yeah, but yeah, so there is some evidence that Harpy Eagles and 668 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:05,120 Eagles of similar size, so big fucking Eagles have killed not 669 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:11,200 grown adults, but babies. Because it turns out that babies 670 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,200 are kind of easier to snatch. Not that surprising, I suppose. 671 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,080 They can't really fight back. They're a lot smaller. 672 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,200 They're easier to carry off. And so the famous specimen of 673 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,560 bird predation is the Tong child. 674 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,640 The Tong child is about 3 million years old and it is a 675 00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:30,360 specimen of Australopithecus africanus. 676 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:36,320 And it has these really distinct scratches in its eye sockets 677 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:41,400 from where the bird grabbed it by the head, dug its claws into 678 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,320 the eyes and pulled it up and off somewhere. 679 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,720 So the next time that you go to one of those birds of prey shows 680 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,320 and they tell you to like, hold your kids still. 681 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,480 That is why it is because some of those big birds, they 682 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,600 probably can't kill your kid and they probably won't kill your 683 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,600 kid, but they might. So hold on to your toddlers. 684 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,760 But in the past? In the past they have, and in 685 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,960 the modern day harpy Eagles for example, hunt monkeys and small 686 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,040 primates to the extent that I think it's like 50% of a harpy 687 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,680 Eagles diet is primates. So there's today things that 688 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,400 specialize on primates. It's not so unusual and 689 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,760 unexpected that in the past there would have been some birds 690 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,560 and things that also specialized on primates, probably less so on 691 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,720 specializing on Baby Australopithecus. 692 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,520 Certainly baby Australopithecus and other similarly sized 693 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,560 primates would have been a very good food group. 694 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,600 So yeah, Big Bird. Not always nice sometimes. 695 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,120 Really mean and that it's just really very interesting that 696 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,520 it's that the harpy, is that what the one that you said eats 697 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,880 about 50% primate. Harpy Eagle. 698 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,920 Yeah, And so they like the taste. 699 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,480 They've been doing this for a long time. 700 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,920 They have acquired. They are like, oh, yes. 701 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,240 What do you want tonight? Oh, how about some more howler 702 00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:09,920 monkey? Wrong, wrong continent. 703 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,080 Never mind. Sorry. 704 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,360 Got my monkeys? Missed, I know. 705 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,480 I do think actually Harpy Eagles are from South America, so I 706 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,440 wouldn't have been. Then I was right. 707 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,920 But there's some big, big birds across our world and some of 708 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,240 them will definitely eat people if they have the chance. 709 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:31,840 I just think, I just think that that is absolutely wild that 710 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,120 again that I mean tongue child is a really famous specimen 711 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,840 because it's very well preserved and we especially for the part 712 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,120 that we the only part of the body we care about which is the 713 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,840 skull, she's great gay. So again, the fact that this 714 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:52,120 specimen was killed was someone's prey and then was 715 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,960 preserved in such good condition and then was found. 716 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,680 It's just, oh, I remember learning about finding this 717 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,640 specimen. Yeah, it was found in a lime 718 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,840 quarry, like all of these kind of like limestone deposits, 719 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,360 which is so weird to me to think of like going to a lime quarry 720 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,080 for fossils, 'cause that's not like where we find vertebrates 721 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,280 in North America as much, but it's. 722 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,760 So Codian, Joe Codian is also a limestone cave or a series of 723 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,360 limestone caves. But it's the they're 724 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,560 accumulating sediment inside those caves, and the accumulated 725 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,560 sediment is the actual it's not the limestone is the host rock 726 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,840 for a lot of these deposits, but a lot of these deposits are 727 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,320 actually things. So do you think that being, you 728 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:39,280 know, I mean Australopithecus definitely had the ability to go 729 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,360 to be bipedal? Whether or not it was 100% 730 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,880 bipedal is still debated and whatnot. 731 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,560 But do you think in this case being bipedal was a detriment 732 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,360 because it was just like look at these holds, they're right here, 733 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,040 look at those pockets. Hi, You know, with our big. 734 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,200 Forward. Facing eyes like the Harpy Eagle 735 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,880 is just like I'm going to go rock climbing on your face, you 736 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,480 know, like. I don't know. 737 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,280 I mean, I do want to clarify that the tongue child was we do 738 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,240 think that the tongue child was about three years old. 739 00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:12,160 So really, more toddler than baby. 740 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,120 So probably still capable of some degree of upright walking. 741 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,400 But yeah, maybe. Maybe that wasn't such a good 742 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:20,960 thing. I mean, it does not look like it 743 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,920 turned out very well for this particular child. 744 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,880 Whether or not it was evolutionarily disadvantageous, 745 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,760 I don't know, but obviously this this little kid didn't have a 746 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,520 great day. But we did continue to evolve 747 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,720 and get even taller. But maybe that's like it was, 748 00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:36,680 yeah. Well, some of. 749 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:37,280 Us. Gotta give. 750 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,800 You're still tall enough that I don't think a bird would take 751 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,960 you on unless it was like a cassowary. 752 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,560 Because I'm a very, very afraid of some of these large 753 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,280 flightless birds that we have. Like I feel like a cassowary 754 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,920 could kick you and do some serious damage. 755 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,680 So. Well, so the other thing, So 756 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,160 we're just going to segue now into a podcast about which 757 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,320 animal could we take in a fight? And the thing about most birds, 758 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,880 right, when they fly, they have to have those super light bones. 759 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,080 But things like cassowaries, they don't fly, they don't need 760 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,120 to have those super light bones. They're much heavier and denser. 761 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,200 About 5 minutes ago, I had a realization that there are no 762 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,800 piranha like behaviors in birds. And then I realized it's 763 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,400 probably because birds, your bones are going to get broken if 764 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,720 you get smacked at. So why hunt together anyways? 765 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,960 Cassowaries. I'm I'm surprised that they 766 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,480 haven't formed. Bands have begun killing. 767 00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:33,200 Taking over the earth. Could be the next stage A? 768 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,680 Cool project that I got to do some research on in our very 769 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,240 early undergrad was on cannibalism in people. 770 00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:45,680 Like, we're talking about all these animals that eat people 771 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,240 and we're kind of dancing around this big obvious thing that is 772 00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:53,800 like, well, humans are humans, So of course we're going to also 773 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,800 have eaten each other. And that seems to be really, 774 00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,440 really prevalent, like a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if Homo 775 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,040 erectus was occasionally doing that. 776 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,760 But would we be able to interpret the evidence as 777 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,360 cannibalism? You know, those are interesting 778 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,560 questions because when I think of cannibalism in humans, I 779 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,240 think a lot about Neanderthals that we're known to be 780 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,480 cannibals. I mean, Neanderthals are 781 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,160 interesting because they're, I mean, they're pretty much 782 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:20,960 humans, right? We know that we interbred with 783 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,920 them. So on some level, I don't know 784 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,200 why we act like there are different species, but fine, 785 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,000 they are morphologically different differences if you 786 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,120 want to focus on those. And but species are all a giant 787 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,600 scam and none of none of them really exist anyway. 788 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,840 So we'll talk about that more, I'm sure, but we're they're very 789 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,000 closely related to us, if not just fully us. 790 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,080 And they're very interesting because they're the first record 791 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,440 of being able to see humans actually taking care of their 792 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,320 dead and burying their dead. I think they're the earliest 793 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,560 occurrence of art that we have. So like, there's this idea that 794 00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,080 the first occurrence of, like, art and culture and religion 795 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,680 even are with Neanderthals. But man, they weren't so 796 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,560 advanced that they wouldn't crack open a cold one. 797 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,000 And by that I mean each other. A cold one? 798 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,960 Are they waiting until they're dead and cold, or are they 799 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,080 cracking open a hot one? They, they lived further north, 800 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,960 so maybe they were cold by the time they got to them and maybe 801 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,680 it was opportunistic again. I'm not sure if it's like, 802 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,960 again, hunting or scavengering, Like that's another thing that 803 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,600 we can't necessarily get at with just fossil evidence alone, 804 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,320 which leads to very interesting questions. 805 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,480 But yeah, I mean, there's lots and lots of evidence of that 806 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,360 Neanderthals were eating each other. 807 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,560 They like the skulls that have been processed in some of these 808 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,160 caves that are that are like 100,000 years old. 809 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,600 It's like they have cut out the the chewing muscles. 810 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,240 So they're essentially going for some human barbacoa by cutting 811 00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:59,520 out like your masseter and your temporalis, and then also marks 812 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,600 of being cutting out the tongue because I guess that was also 813 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,280 delicious and going after, like we've talked about that bone 814 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,440 marrow. So especially in your bigger 815 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,600 limb bones, that's going to be a really good source of just 816 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,040 energy and fuel. So they process the remains of 817 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,680 deer and other butchered animals the exact same way that they 818 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,200 process these human bones, which is why it's pretty clear they 819 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,000 were eating them too. It's like, oh, why else would 820 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,120 you break open their Morrow cavities and then scrape out all 821 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,760 of their bone marrow? You know, it's probably not 822 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,760 because you're doing a science experiment. 823 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,640 So Neanderthals were definitely cannibals. 824 00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,160 And then one of my, a few other favorites are, you know, the CRO 825 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,120 Magnon people like, yeah, they're like. 826 00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:48,400 Some of the, I mean, not personally, but yeah. 827 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,600 Well, they're probably in. There's a little bit of them in 828 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,560 all of us. These are ancient humans that 829 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,440 were true Homo sapiens that lived in Europe. 830 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,720 And there's this cave, the Go cave. 831 00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:04,120 I think that's how it's pronounced and it's, I think 832 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:09,360 it's somewhere in England, I don't know somewhere on that 833 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,160 island that is a thing. So I had their Ice Age. 834 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,560 So we're talking like 14,000 about 14, 1/2 thousand years 835 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,680 ago. It's another cave and it's more 836 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:26,000 processing of human bones. And like you already brought up 837 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,840 with the skull caps, one of the ways they know that this is 838 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,920 definitely planned, and definitely potentially even like 839 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,240 a ritual, is that all the other bones in the skeleton totally 840 00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:40,760 smashed to get at all the meat and all the marrow except the 841 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,520 skull cap and just the top of the skull. 842 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,600 And you don't want to go too far back because then you get your 843 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,160 frame and Magnum, and you can't have that because then you can't 844 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,600 use your skull cap as a bowl or a cup, so. 845 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,560 You can't use it as like a thumb hook. 846 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,880 For your bowl. I mean, you could hang. 847 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,240 It could. Be like a ladle. 848 00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,880 It could be, you know, but. That's true. 849 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,160 Yeah. But I don't I don't know if the 850 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,480 the rest of the skull shape works for that. 851 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,160 So you know they they find these caves that are just like 852 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,680 scattered with crushed human bones and then just perfect 853 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,440 skull caps that have been processed for eating and 854 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:22,320 drinking as and like it's very clear that this the face again 855 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,920 has been carefully removed so that you can just get those 856 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:30,240 cranial vaults to be perfect cups for your future. 857 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,560 So I just like, like want to remind people like we think 858 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,560 we're so high class. We were eating, Britons were 859 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,480 eating each other like not that long ago, OK, like not that long 860 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,320 ago. And I mean, I'm not saying let's 861 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:47,920 bring it back on the menu. I'm not saying let's go Soylent 862 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:49,600 Green. I just think it's. 863 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,320 Unless unless some sort of Soylent Green company sponsors 864 00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:58,040 our podcast. In which case, yes, we will. 865 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,320 Thank you for listening. If you like the podcast, be sure 866 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,560 to rate and review us on your listening platform of choice. 867 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,880 We really, really, really appreciate it. 868 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,960 If you'd like to hear more and support the show, you can follow 869 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,760 us on Patreon for some exclusive bits or on our various social 870 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,640 media platforms. You can follow Amy on Instagram 871 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,120 at Mary Anning's Revenge. And Megan on Instagram and 872 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:25,040 TikTok as Geopedal fabric. Or both of us at Weird and Dead 873 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,880 on Instagram and TikTok. This podcast is brought to you 874 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,000 by the Geology Podcasting that work produced by the Traveling 875 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,800 Geologist AKA Chris Spencer. Our theme song is Unlock Me by 876 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,440 Praz Kunal. Cover art was provided by Chris 877 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,520 Spencer and the hosts. Editing services were provided 878 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,320 by Abby Jansen and Chris Spencer, and a little bit of us 879 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,480 as well. And this has been hosted and 880 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,000 researched by us, Amy Atwater and Amy Heather. 881 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:55,880 All, thank you for listening. Oh, it was a real thing. 882 00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:00,480 It only existed for a year but was called Hoofu and it was a 883 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,720 tofu designed to resemble human flesh and taste and texture. 884 00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:08,960 And vegan cannibals rejoice, there's finally a plant based 885 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:09,680 person.