1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,200 You're listening to Weird and Dead, the paleontology podcast 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,640 that tells evolutions most embarrassing and bizarre 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:11,280 stories. I'm Amy Atwater. 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,760 And I'm Megan Wetherell, and we're two living scientists who 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,600 are weirdly excited about dead things. 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,360 On this week's episode, we're talking about dinosaurs in the 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,200 Arctic, dinosaurs in the Antarctic, and how and why they 8 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,200 lived in these far, far reaches of our globe. 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,880 Also, we talk about rafting again, but this time for rocks. 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,400 Like always, our podcast talks about some disgusting stuff, so 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,120 please read through the content warnings before continuing. 12 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:49,920 All righty then we are talking about very cold and not 13 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:54,560 necessarily cold but very far north, very far South things 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,720 today on our weird planet. This made me have a lot more 15 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,720 appreciation for planet earth and how cool it is. 16 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,440 I will be getting latitude wrong this entire time. 17 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,240 I just. Oh yes, I am fully prepared to 18 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,680 watch you just suffer through latitude. 19 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,720 In your defense, Very similar words, but like historically I 20 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,000 have noticed that that I am not. You've got a lot of strong 21 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,440 suits, honey, but this one is. It's not one of them. 22 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,160 I get it. It's it's not. 23 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,400 My brain likes to not make sense of that. 24 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,640 So this time we're switching it up and I'm going to be talking 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,440 about all things South Pole today, which I was going to 26 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,800 gloss over all of the human stuff because I was like, man, 27 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,400 whatever, until I've realized that all of these expeditions 28 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,080 had scientists with them and frequently had geologists with 29 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,120 them. So there are some really 30 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,720 interesting overlaps with paleontology and like European 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,760 racing to get to the polls, all all those countries. 32 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,600 So we'll just dive in with that. Giving you the year is it's 33 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:02,120 1911, His name is Robert Falcon Scott. 34 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,080 He has gone on a couple Antarctic expeditions before, 35 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,800 really pushing the boundaries of how far South he could go. 36 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,920 He sometimes worked with Shackleton, who we talked about 37 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:15,560 a little bit in reference to leopard seals before. 38 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,360 And they started out as friends, and then they decided that they 39 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,920 were enemies because Scott decided he wanted to go explore 40 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:25,960 a part of Antarctica that Shackleton was like, no, it's 41 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,520 mine. I claimed it. 42 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,440 And it was just, it sounded like it was very petty and stupid. 43 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,800 And it didn't really matter because Scott had a much 44 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,960 different ending than Shackleton did. 45 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,720 So he goes on this expedition from, you know, like 1910 or 46 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,800 something like that to get to the South Pole. 47 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,960 No one has gotten there yet. He's like, I'm going to fucking 48 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,640 do it. Shackleton just failed. 49 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,400 Fuck you, Shackleton. I'm going to go for it. 50 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,840 And they had all of these mishaps, like they took ponies 51 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,280 because Shackleton was like, ponies are great. 52 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,040 And then the ponies were not great. 53 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:02,760 They were not acclimated. Yeah, hooves on ice. 54 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,240 That's exactly what I think about as being good. 55 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,600 Yeah, let's get these tiny ass little hooves and put them on 56 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,880 slick surfaces. Yeah, exactly. 57 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,640 And we also we know for. Leopard seal food. 58 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,400 It's like, why not just try to use the leopard seal? 59 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,600 I don't know. But obviously, because of a lot 60 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,520 of other places and cultures and traditions, we can know that 61 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,440 dogs do this very well instead. And it turns out that a 62 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:31,000 Norwegian was also going to the pole at the exact same time. 63 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,280 And he was using a dog sled setup and team. 64 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,280 And they were like, yeah, we're fucking dogs. 65 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:37,920 We're Huskies were made for this. 66 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,360 And Scott's expedition was not doing so great. 67 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,800 And when they made it to the Pole, the Norwegian guy had 68 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,600 already been there a month or so before him. 69 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,560 They lost the race to the pole. The Norwegian people, our guy 70 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,800 just like left a tent and flashed lag and shit. 71 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,920 So if you scroll to your first picture, it's the picture of the 72 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:04,120 dejected Scott and crew having just lost the race to get to the 73 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,920 South Pole, looking really bummed out. 74 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,880 Wow, they do look really like most of the time when you look 75 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,120 at photos from like the 1900s, people look kind of bummed out. 76 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,120 But these these people just look exhausted, like they just 77 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,200 realized how useless horses are. More things. 78 00:04:21,959 --> 00:04:25,360 And like racing to the pole, but I get it, you know, it's, it's 79 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,200 there. And so they were super dejected. 80 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,640 I got to this patch of snow a little bit too slow. 81 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,880 And I mean, they're all from England and stuff like that. 82 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,800 I'm sorry, the Norwegians already have quite the advantage 83 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,920 when it comes to polar expedition. 84 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,360 So duh, you lost to some folks from Norway. 85 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,120 Like it's. I'm not surprised by that at 86 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:48,080 all. So yeah. 87 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:49,840 Yeah, Scott wrote in his journal. 88 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:52,280 I had to save because I thought it was it's kind. 89 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:53,920 It's not that funny, but it's kind of funny. 90 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,960 The worst has happened. All the daydreams must go. 91 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,320 Great. God, this is an awful place. 92 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,160 Like a teenage girl's diary. Yeah, and I love how he's saying 93 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,080 the worst has happened but the worst has not happened yet. 94 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,120 No. So then it's like February, 95 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,840 they're like, fuck, OK, we we have to make do of this 96 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,400 experience some way somehow. And they hike towards this 97 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,400 Moraine where they actually saw rock instead of just ice for the 98 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,240 first time in like 14 weeks or something like that. 99 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,520 So they all start rock hounding and picking up rocks and they 100 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,360 find these fossil plants and they're like these are fucking 101 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,080 cool. So they literally create a bag 102 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:43,920 35 lbs of fossil plants that they then dragged and then. 103 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,720 Consolation prize. But they didn't get there and 104 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:54,520 they died on the ice all together with this bag of 105 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,720 fossils in their tent that they were going to die no matter 106 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,560 what. There was some miscommunication 107 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,320 with some other team mates or whatever somewhere else who were 108 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:04,880 supposed to meet them with the dog sled team. 109 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,840 That did not happen but it has been brought up many times. 110 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,600 I read in many accounts of like his so-called folly of adding 111 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,200 additional 16 kilograms of rocks to their burden as they were all 112 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,920 dying so. Whoops. 113 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:26,680 But but the fossils were Glossopteris, which is a 114 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:32,040 Permian, so Paleozoic age plant that had only ever been found in 115 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,560 places like South America, parts of Africa, and I think India 116 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,120 prior to this, maybe not even all of those places. 117 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,160 And this was around the time of Wegner figuring out how 118 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,320 continents were moving and shaking. 119 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,960 And these fossil that the name means tongue Fern, if you're 120 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,240 interested. Anyway, the tongue Fern became a 121 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:58,320 pivotal part of reconstructing how the continents have changed 122 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,960 since the Paleozoic, and how the position of Antarctica has also 123 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:07,520 changed so drastically that it was at once hospitable to lush, 124 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,120 beautiful plants and tropical animals as well. 125 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,840 But before all of this, this concept of the moving continents 126 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:19,400 was pretty out there, and it was because of finding fossils like 127 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,520 the Glossopteris that were found next to all of these dead guys 128 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,640 that helped us understand how continents change. 129 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,160 Do you think that? They like, felt like it was kind 130 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,440 of teasing the horses to have fossil plants that the horses 131 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,960 couldn't eat like. The horses were dead by this 132 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,600 point, Megan, the horses were. Long. 133 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,160 Dead, they were eaten. That's right, The benefit of 134 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,320 taking horses over dogs is there's more animal to eat. 135 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,960 That is true, but you can't feed horses dead Penguins. 136 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,800 Or maybe you can. I mean, horses will eat flesh. 137 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,640 In a tough search. Yeah, well, also just sometimes 138 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,560 because they can, right? Herbivores. 139 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,720 No judgment. No judgment. 140 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,640 Well that's wild. I I'm sorry that Glossopter has 141 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:07,720 helped curse these men to their deaths, but. 001 Other thing I 142 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,880 have to to know is that these were not the first fossil plants 143 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,600 found in Antarctica. The first ones were also found 144 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,400 by some different Norwegian guy. Sorry. 145 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,360 These are like the third, but arguably the most significant in 146 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,640 terms of identifying them to the same plant in different 147 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,320 continents. So good job, Scott. 148 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,360 Are we just saying that to make these people feel better? 149 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:31,920 They're dead. We're. 150 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:35,080 Not going to get haunted by them. 151 00:08:35,159 --> 00:08:37,679 They they died, No. They're haunting all those 152 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,760 Norwegians or Norwegians. God, oh. 153 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:47,200 Norwegians, maybe this is a good segue to talk about paleo 154 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,240 latitude and paleo longitude, which are terms that we're going 155 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,600 to use a lot today. Latitude and longitude mostly 156 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,320 for Amy's sake. Uh, latitude is the horizontal 157 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,960 lines which actually tell you how far up towards the poles or 158 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,880 down towards the equator. That's counterintuitive. 159 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:08,640 It's. Counterintuitive longitude is 160 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,240 are you facing the sun? Are you away from the sun? 161 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:15,440 Longitude is harder to kind of reckon with as far as fossils 162 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:16,800 go. It's actually much harder to 163 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,400 figure out the longitude of a continent than it is to actually 164 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,960 figure out the paleo latitude. And I, I will say, and paleo 165 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,520 latitude just means ancient latitude. 166 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,920 So continents move quite a lot. They bump into one another. 167 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:33,880 They also disappear and they're created. 168 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,560 But like knowing where a patch of land was helps you understand 169 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:41,000 a lot about the climate and geology stuff. 170 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,920 So discovering the ancient latitude is kind of important. 171 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,840 And I have to say that, well, I do feel like I understand 172 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,600 latitude and longitude probably better than you at the very 173 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,880 least. Well, I definitely slow bar did 174 00:09:53,880 --> 00:10:00,440 not fully understand paleo latitude because I forgot that 175 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:05,560 our planet is 3 dimensions and I just assumed you know you'll 176 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:09,360 look at a map, the map is flat and sometimes I forgot that the 177 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,280 world was not flat. It is. 178 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:19,280 Flat of my discovery in advance. Solid burn. 179 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,520 Anyways, so I learned how magnets work this week, which 180 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:27,800 was pretty exciting. So latitude is divvying up the 181 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,760 the round planet, but you can also figure out where your paleo 182 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,680 latitude is by magnetic particles, which I understood. 183 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,760 But because I thought the world was flat in my head, because the 184 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:45,360 only other ways I've used compasses is to look at the 185 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,320 difference between magnetic north and geographic N, it's 186 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,280 always been a little confusing to me how that could get you 187 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,640 paleo latitude. So to back up for a second, when 188 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,960 you have magnetic particles that are preserved in a rock, usually 189 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,080 in lava, they will basically become magnetically oriented 190 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,560 with our planet's magnetic poles. 191 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,720 So you can use those to tell important information about 192 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,040 which direction was the pole, because apparently that flippity 193 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,840 floppies and also it wobbles a little bit. 194 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,160 So it gives you a lot of information, but it doesn't just 195 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:23,880 give you like which direction is north because the magnetic pole 196 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,920 is 3 dimensional. It's not just horizontal as if 197 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,640 the world was flat, it's also up and down. 198 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,480 So if you have a particle forming and preserving that 199 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,680 magnetic particle and locking it in place, so no matter where you 200 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:40,840 move it on the planet, it can't rotate in the different 201 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,520 direction. If you do that at the pole, it 202 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,440 has a declination, which would be difference between magnetic 203 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,200 north, which is where our magnetic pole is, versus true 204 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,960 geographic N. It also has an inclination, 205 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,760 which is how far down is it? Which direction is it going 206 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,720 down? Right here on top of a pole. 207 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,520 It's 90°. If you're not, it's some other 208 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,240 variant of degrees. OK. 209 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,000 Yeah, yeah. That's how you can tell Bailey a 210 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,800 latitude. Basically, it tells you that 211 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,360 it's pointing straight through the planet. 212 00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:11,520 You don't seem mind blown by this. 213 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,520 So clearly I, you haven't thought about it before. 214 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:18,280 That's what I'm going with. This blew my mind. 215 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,640 It was absolutely. I was like, Oh my God, this is 216 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,240 how it's worked the whole time. Magnets go up and down. 217 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,840 My compass doesn't do that. I I think it's good that we're 218 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,560 going to get jazzed on different parts of this because I had 219 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:36,160 sometimes earlier that I was bouncing off the walls and Kelly 220 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:42,000 was like, what the hell? And I was like, so you know, I 221 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,880 think it's good that we, yeah, I'm learning this is good. 222 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,440 I mean, this is perfect because a lot of my shit is based on 223 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,280 paleo mag stuff. So to be able to have this 224 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,440 foundation very useful and explaining why, because there's 225 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,480 a pretty large margin of error with reconstructing paleo stuff. 226 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,960 And the part part of this is what you're describing is it's 227 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,040 just it's three-dimensional. There's all these different 228 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:05,360 components. Those are all going to have 229 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,760 their own baggage in terms of error. 230 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,680 So, yeah. And if it's pointing down, it's 231 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:12,040 of course pointing directly at the magnetic pole. 232 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:17,080 And because our Earth is on a slight tilt, the magnetic pole 233 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,200 doesn't always match, I don't think ever matches to the actual 234 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,920 geographic North Pole. And the geographic North Pole is 235 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,000 the thing that actually really matters as far as climate goes 236 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,840 because that's the part that points at the sun or doesn't 237 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,960 point at the sun. So there is quite a lot of 238 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,160 wiggle room. I did find a really cool website 239 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,200 that seems pretty new. It's called Paleo latitude.com. 240 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,480 It is spelled the American way, so there's no stupid extra A's 241 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,760 in there British people. But it has like a listing of 242 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:54,520 Paleo latitude information. They get it, they did it wrong. 243 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,280 They're it's not Palatio, it's Paleo. 244 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:05,240 And yeah, it's as long as you click on something that was a 245 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,080 continent at the time, you can get paleo latitude information. 246 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,600 So you can't click on the West Coast of Oregon and figure out 247 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,960 where it was, but you can't click because that was in the 248 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,000 ocean. But anything that was a 249 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,240 consonant that we have information for, I will do some 250 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,680 interpolation stuff and tell you where it probably was, which is 251 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,880 very cool. That's handy because I was doing 252 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,040 a lot of eyeballing and yelling at these different articles for 253 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,640 being all over the place of acting like some of these 254 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,240 Jurassic Antarctic dinosaurs, They're like, they're so cold. 255 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,720 And I'm like, no, it was literally fucking 90° all the 256 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,920 time during this time period. Like they weren't fucking cold. 257 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,600 So it and some place, I mean, there's a lot of debate about 258 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,080 the exact placement of the continents. 259 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,200 You know, like it's great to have these tools, but people 260 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,000 still fight about where exactly they would have been located. 261 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,240 Yes. And yeah, they'll they'll always 262 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,720 be some tweaking. The other way you can do paleo 263 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,280 latitude is you can just take the continents and put them on a 264 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,440 little model and you can wiggle them around because you maybe 265 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,240 know where plumes were and where things were separating over 266 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,640 time. So you can get some model 267 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,280 answers as well. But yeah, magnetic is probably 268 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,240 one of the number one ways that people get paleo latitude 269 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,480 information. And with the Arctic, at least 270 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,400 since going back to like the time of the dinosaurs, which is 271 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,680 about as early as I looked, our continents like the North 272 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,080 America, Asia, we've kind of just been bumping up and down a 273 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,320 little bit near the Arctic. There's not actually a shit ton 274 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,120 of change as far as the landmass goes at the Arctic Circle. 275 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,680 It's up 10°, down 10°, but it's not like there was no 276 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,520 continental mass and now there's continental mass like slider 277 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,160 variations compared to the story of Antarctica, which as far as 278 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,120 continental drift goes, I understand it is a little bit 279 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,560 more exciting. It is indeed. 280 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,720 This was a good challenge because my own research is based 281 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,720 in North America. Almost. 282 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,720 Yeah, No. Every single fossil I've ever 283 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,880 dealt with and handled for the most part is North American and 284 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,800 is part of one of these former supercontinents. 285 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,520 That is not what Antarctica was a part of. 286 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,400 So this was good to jump into Guantuana, you know, and that's 287 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:26,320 essentially the southern giant proto early giant continent 288 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:27,960 things. Pangea, but they're all 289 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,640 together. Woo Pangea, they're all 290 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,080 together. Then they break up. 291 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,920 So what we now know as modern day Africa, South America, 292 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:41,200 Australia, India and Antarctica was this giant landmass called 293 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,440 Guandwana. If you've seen a sticker that 294 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,720 says Reunite Guandwana Land, this is a bit of a tongue in 295 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,680 cheek joke about bringing back this super continent that does 296 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,760 not exist anymore. So what does that mean for 297 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,360 Antarctica? When we talk about Antarctica 298 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:02,200 today, it is very cold. It is the covered in ice or 299 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,720 giant ice sheets, glaciers that cover the entire surface. 300 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,560 It has not always been that way. In fact, the major ice sheets 301 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,240 didn't really start get going again until the Miocene. 302 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:13,800 So you know, like 20 million years ago. 303 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,480 Before that, especially in the Cretaceous, so the end of the 304 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,520 age of dinosaurs into the Paleogene. 305 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,520 So the Paleocene, Eocene Thermal maximum, this is when the Earth 306 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,359 is very warm. And that is a lot of the 307 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,520 conditions in which life formed in Antarctica. 308 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,200 It wasn't the ice sheets that it has always been. 309 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,480 It was when it was more hospitable, both because of 310 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,320 global climate, but also because of paleo latitude. 311 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:45,000 So we know that about 450 million years ago, the crust 312 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,000 that now makes up Antarctica was on the equator, which is mind 313 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,080 boggling on its own to think about. 314 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:56,120 And then by about 200 million years ago, Antarctica, the crust 315 00:17:56,120 --> 00:18:00,080 there was now joining up with parts of South America, Africa, 316 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,640 India and Australia to make up this Guan Donna that we've 317 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,680 talked about. And it did slowly split apart to 318 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,560 create Antarctica as a separate continent. 319 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,840 But this wasn't until probably, oh gosh, I didn't actually get 320 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,920 an exact number on that, but we're talking probably like 321 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:21,560 around the KT boundary around then just based on and maybe 322 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,120 even a little bit later because of the mammal fossils that we 323 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:27,400 find there. So during this time period where 324 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,440 we have a lot of the dinosaurs, so there are dinosaurs in 325 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,400 Antarctica from like this early Jurassic time period and then 326 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,800 also a early late Cretaceous time period. 327 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,520 And Antarctica was totally ice free at these times. 328 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:44,120 Like it was very, very hot. We know from foraminifera 329 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,280 fossils. So teeny tiny itty bitty 330 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,720 microscopic animals that live in the ocean can give us a good 331 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,800 idea of their bottom dwelling creatures. 332 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,760 So what the sediments. And again, if we're talking 333 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,920 about trying to interpret what these past latitudes and 334 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,000 climates may have been like, you want to understand like ocean 335 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,920 temperature, ocean placement. So you use all these itty bitty 336 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,840 ocean fossils. And they found out that 337 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:12,400 Antarctica was literally, during the Cretaceous, was thought to 338 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:19,280 be about 30°C, which is like 86°F at its southern area, which 339 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,840 would have even been getting close to the Antarctic Circle at 340 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,640 that time. So it's still pretty far South, 341 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,960 but it's so warm globally that it's not actually so much 342 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,000 affected by cold weather as it would be periods of darkness. 343 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:37,080 And that's what the animals would have had to be more 344 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,800 adapted for than just the cold when we're talking about at 345 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,280 least the dinosaurs that make up this area. 346 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,280 And I mean, it goes into a lot of the reasons why even today, 347 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:51,640 it is really, really difficult to for organisms to live in the 348 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,280 Arctic, the polar regions, and also in deep time. 349 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,520 My my poor segue back. To you, you did a beautiful job 350 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,280 and then I thank you. I appreciate the prompt and the 351 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,320 compliment. Yes. 352 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,120 So when we talk about ice, which we are going to still talk about 353 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,600 even though there were no ice caps, it is important to 354 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,360 recognize that there is a big difference between what we 355 00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:17,600 currently recognize as ice, although our children might not 356 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,680 versus like winter freezing, right. 357 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,640 So like during the time of the dinosaurs ice existed. 358 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,120 It wasn't like a like a non existent concept, but it 359 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:31,960 probably was very seasonal. You have winter freezing and 360 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,000 then summer warming and in a lot of places you didn't have winter 361 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,000 freezing because it was too goddamn hot in the winter. 362 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,040 But at the polls at least and the Arctic poll, you probably 363 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,560 still did have winter freezing in some areas. 364 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,640 And the way that we can tell that is not just by us like 365 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,560 doing beard hand WAVY temperature modeling things, 366 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:51,960 although frankly we can do that too. 367 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,640 There is geologic evidence for glaciers, for ice caps and for 368 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,880 things like winter freezing on lakes. 369 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,760 That is not an actual ice cap and it does kind of differ. 370 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,120 So some of that geologic evidence includes things like 371 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:09,880 this weird mineral that sounds like a Wizard of Oz reference. 372 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,480 It's called a glendinite, and it's like a calcium carbonate, 373 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:18,520 like limestone thing, but it forms in cold water. 374 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,040 And during the Mesozoic, it pretty much only seems to have 375 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,000 formed in like the Baltic region. 376 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,560 So it tells you that water was getting cold at least down at 377 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,000 the bottom of the ocean in kind of the northern portion of the 378 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,240 Northern hemisphere. You also get things like 379 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,240 tilites, which is a glacier rock deposit. 380 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,840 So if you have big glaciers, they make like kind of distinct 381 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,520 looking formations. And we are going to talk now 382 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,360 about rafting again. Except. 383 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,280 Yeah, I or. Yes, rocks. 384 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,520 Oh, oh, I'm even more excited. Yeah, Oh yeah. 385 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,480 It's not just sleepy, tiny, almost dead monkeys, it's also 386 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,400 rocks. That raft. 387 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,800 So rocks rafting. Another name for this is also 388 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,920 drop stone. A drop stone is a special 389 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,040 glacial feature. Basically, when you have a big 390 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,360 glacier kind of plowing its way down a valley, it will pick up 391 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:18,400 and incorporate rocks into the ice. 392 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,320 And then when it meets the sea and it breaks into icebergs, 393 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,960 those rocks are like suspended particles until the iceberg 394 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:26,840 melts. And so you get like these big 395 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,600 chunks of weird glacier rocks that melt out of icebergs and 396 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,680 they fall. And they're called drop stones, 397 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,560 both because they're dropping, but they also make like visible 398 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,400 depressions in the sediment. So they like drop and dent it. 399 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:44,800 Essentially they had some force to it as it was dropping. 400 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,920 Yeah, yeah. So drop stones that come from 401 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,960 ice rafting, especially with glaciers, either knocking over 402 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,400 rocks or pulling them up, is very frequently pretty big 403 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,640 rocks. And it's a little bit weird to 404 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,880 look at because you both get that divot underneath the rock 405 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,280 because it's slammed into the mud. 406 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,360 But it's also a very big difference in particle sizes, 407 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,280 because when you're talking about rocks, you get tiny, tiny, 408 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,000 tiny little particles deposited when the water is slow, and big 409 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,800 ones are usually deposited when the water is fast because that's 410 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,680 the only thing capable of moving big rocks. 411 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,440 But with drop stones and other glacial features, you get this 412 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,320 weird like lots and lots of little tiny sediments like slow 413 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,920 water with like this weird giant big rock in the middle of 414 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,000 nowhere. But you can also get those 415 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:33,560 through other methods. They're usually smaller. 416 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,640 So the the drop stones we're going to talk about now are 417 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,200 usually things like pebbles, but can you think of some things 418 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:44,120 that might potentially kick rocks into a lake or into the 419 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:46,640 ocean? That would bring rocks into a 420 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,640 lake or an ocean besides, well, let's see, some really kinky 421 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:57,600 dinosaur sex lakes probably #1. Is that because the the 422 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,360 dinosaurs are incorporating the rocks into their sex lives or 423 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:03,040 they're dying mid coitus and their gastroliths are being 424 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,400 deposited? Both. 425 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,400 So I think yes, things that can. OK, So you're saying that are 426 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:14,680 just like isolated rocks though? Not like a rock fall, some sort 427 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,680 of landslide lahar? Landslide, landslides in lahars 428 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,080 will, but they bring down lots of them, right? 429 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,920 So these deposits, it's often like single ones. 430 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,960 So one of the ways that you can get this is you can get this 431 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,720 with trees or tree throw. Tree throw. 432 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,160 Oh yeah. Have you not heard this term 433 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,680 before? No. 434 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,160 It's a it's a geomorphology thing. 435 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,960 My husband is a geomorphologist and so he talks about fucking 436 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,240 tree throw all the time, so I've heard of it a lot. 437 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:50,760 But trees love to snuggle rocks very aggressively with their 438 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,320 roots and so they will actually break up the rock. 439 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,800 And if a tree gets knocked over in like the wind, it pulls the 440 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,240 rocks up. And so it's called throwing 441 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,640 because it does move them. However, it's not like a fucking 442 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,360 catapult, right? Like, it's not, it's not sending 443 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,360 them two miles into the ocean. Yeah, so you. 444 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:14,960 Do get you get some short scale movement from trees. 445 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,600 You can of course also have animals knock things into other 446 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,960 things, right? So like, it's not like dinosaurs 447 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,360 were out there skipping rocks or anything, but you can get 448 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:27,800 occasional rocks. Well, you don't know. 449 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,680 That that's true. I guess maybe that was like what 450 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,560 the tale was for on sauropod dinosaurs. 451 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,480 It was like really good flinging action it. 452 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,200 Could just be a bonus that doesn't have to be a. 453 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,160 Standard, standard. Yes, always. 454 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:49,960 OK, OK, tell me then. Some of the other ones are 455 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,520 things like shoreline freezing. So instead of having like a big 456 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,160 glacier, if during the winter you have like the shoreline gets 457 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,720 ice on it, it's the same process, right? 458 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,800 The ice will grab some of the bigger rocks that are up on the 459 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,280 shoreline and then as the ice melts, sometimes it'll drift 460 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,200 out. You'll get like mini icebergs 461 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,440 essentially, and so you'll have pebbles and cobbles dropped. 462 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,000 So this is what people think was happening in a place that I 463 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,720 should have looked up the pronunciation of. 464 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:23,400 God damn it, here we go. Anyways, the Jingar Basin is a 465 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:28,920 Triassic slash Jurassic site in China and it was a pretty large 466 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,040 lake system. And some recent research has 467 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,400 suggested that even though in the Jurassic slash Triassic 468 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,880 carbon dioxide was like 2000 parts per billion. 469 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,400 So fucking enormous, so warm. But even at that time, they 470 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,200 think that there was seasonal freezing of this lake because 471 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,760 you see these little stones that they think were being frozen by 472 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,040 shorelines. There was one other method, and 473 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,120 I agree that it's probably with shoreline freezing. 474 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,880 They think that the paleo latitude of this site in China 475 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:06,520 was probably like 70 to 75° in latitude, so pretty far north. 476 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:11,080 So it would make sense, but they very casually mentioned in this 477 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,880 paper that they didn't think it was algae rafting. 478 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:20,920 And then I went of algae rafting. 479 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:24,000 Right. Yeah. 480 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,840 So algae rafting is something that we have seen in like 481 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,160 glacial marine settings. So not super far north 482 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,720 necessarily, not like polar N, but like areas where you do have 483 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,040 glaciers. And it's not like my first 484 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,440 vision was like, you know, that nasty, nasty, thick, like algae 485 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,040 that forms on the tops of lakes and stuff during the summer. 486 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,680 Like, you get like a blanket of it. 487 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,480 I thought it was like somewhat kicked a Pebble on it and then 488 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,840 it like drifts out into the middle of the like. 489 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,760 Magic carpet, right? And The thing is that that could 490 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:03,760 happen, but algae doesn't melt. So if you had a big old nasty 491 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,520 carpet of algae, it would basically go down with the ship. 492 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,680 You would only have algae plus rock, not algae or rock. 493 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,320 So that sort of algae rafting would have like a big organic 494 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,600 layer. So that wasn't what they were 495 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,880 talking about. What they were talking about is 496 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,800 an algae that is called bladder rack or sea grapes. 497 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,640 It's like a seaweed. And I'm giggling because the 498 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,640 scientific name, this is definitely not how the genus is 499 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,600 pronounced. But I'm going to it's it's fuck 500 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:36,760 us. Oh good. 501 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,600 Fuck us, the algae is responsible for algae rafting. 502 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,160 Yeah, it does. It is I I mean was there any 503 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,560 other option? No, Yeah. 504 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:53,000 So fucus is a seaweed and it has a holdfast and then it has it's 505 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,080 called bladder rack or sea grapes because it has like these 506 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,080 little like relatable things that help keep it upright. 507 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,200 Yeah, it sounds disgusting. Yeah, it it looks pretty gross, 508 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,560 but because it clings to the rock, just like with tree throw, 509 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,240 if the algae plant gets dislodged, sometimes a little 510 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,680 Pebble will come with it. Oh God. 511 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,160 So you'll get. Oh my gosh. 512 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,840 But The thing is, and because it has the little the little 513 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,760 bladders that help it float, it can actually float quite some 514 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,560 distance. So it's a a little, a little, 515 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,000 it's a raft, it's a, it's an algal. 516 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,120 It's a little raft. Water. 517 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,040 Little net, little exploration. It's dragging it along like a 518 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,040 little anchor. Cute. 519 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,880 It's very cute, yeah. Usually, however, you get that 520 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,840 kind of blown up onto the the shore. 521 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,760 So that's not necessarily going to explain finding a lot of 522 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,120 drops. Also, they made a really good 523 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,320 point that you only ever find one Pebble per plant because 524 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,560 they only have one hold fast. So they really can only they can 525 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,120 only do so much damage, which is why I do believe these these 526 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,760 scientists when they say that they think it was ice rafting. 527 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,400 Well, specifically shoreline freezing in this area in China 528 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,040 during the Jurassic when you have 2000 parts per million of 529 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,680 CO2. Hot which is not so hot. 530 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,080 It's getting. Gross. 531 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,440 Oh that that is yeah, cuz I mean, they so often it's 532 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,680 referred to as these like ice free world. 533 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,320 And your point is that it is free of ice caps and there could 534 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,680 still be ice present at especially at again, these more 535 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,040 polar places, especially if you aren't getting light for 30 to 536 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,760 60 days, which is what you can dealing with when you get within 537 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,560 that thirty negative or yeah, and get quite cold. 538 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,880 Yeah, because you have. So I had to think about this for 539 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,640 my own, for my own. I was like, so the equator, 0, 540 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,520 the poles 90. OK, All right. 541 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,200 That was my start. We're trying to understand when 542 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:02,080 when a paper says it was at 60° latitude or even further South, 543 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:03,760 I'm like, yeah, but what does that mean? 544 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:09,400 So we can go ahead and scroll. You're going to scroll past a 545 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,840 picture of the fossil glycopterist that I forgot to 546 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,560 tell you to look at. It's quite beautiful. 547 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,880 It's like, actually lovely. Is this the the death 548 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,760 glysopteris? I couldn't figure out where that 549 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,640 one is. It's probably like lost in the 550 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,440 British Museum or something. So no, this is not one of the 551 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,760 deaf tongue ferns. This is just a very pretty 552 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,480 example from Wikipedia. That's very pretty. 553 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,160 So that's like this vibe again. So when you a lot of and they 554 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,320 have other other accounts of finding like beach leaves and 555 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,680 other fairly broad leaf plants. And if you go into some of the 556 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,320 basics of paleo botany and reconstructing paleo 557 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,360 environment, the bigger the leaf usually the more tends to be a 558 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,000 more tropical climate, not always, but a lot of times the 559 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,200 bigger that. And then you can scroll on down 560 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,520 to see exactly where I'm talking about in terms of where 561 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:02,280 Antarctica was back in the days of Guan Duana. 562 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,280 So you can see the equator is going there. 563 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,640 It's yes. I can't even imagine. 564 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,560 I think a lot of these reconstructions are based on 565 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,920 Paleo mag, which is interesting too. 566 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,080 And all I want to point out here is that E Antarctica is at the 567 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:25,440 30th degree line latitude, so it is 30° South of the equator, OK? 568 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,520 So that is around where you're going to find places like Cape 569 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,440 Town, South Africa today, and a big chunk of what is now 570 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,720 Australia. So again, just thinking about 571 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,240 the climates of those places, yes, they can get cold, yes, 572 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,800 they can get snow, but most of the time they're still quite 573 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,160 warm. And the definition of the polar 574 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:52,800 circle is I think 2/3 S, so it's 66.33333° to be considered in 575 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:58,280 the Antarctic polar circle. So a lot of these dinosaurs. 576 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,320 So in the early Jurassic, we know that, OK, we don't know the 577 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,240 exact paleo latitude, but we do know that it was somewhere 578 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,440 between probably 30 and 60°. And so 64 frame of reference is 579 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,080 Kelly is from, my husband is from Juneau, AK, which is from 580 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:20,440 about 660° latitude. But north of the equator, 581 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:27,640 Alaska's a northern, so again, like Juno is one of the farthest 582 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,040 S cities you can be in in Alaska. 583 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,240 So it's really rainy and it definitely gets very, very dark. 584 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,000 I would. I've been there over Christmas 585 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,760 or New Year's. It isn't 100% dark though. 586 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,640 The sun rises around 10:00 AM and sets again by like 2:00 PM. 587 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,480 So you get about four hours even in some of the darkest days. 588 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,400 So to really get complete darkness for a good chunk of the 589 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:54,880 time, you need to be like above 60° or below depending on how 590 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,680 you define how you look at the globe. 591 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,040 Well, it's above regardless, right? 592 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,400 Because it's going counting the same. 593 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,400 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. Yes, yes. 594 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,960 I, I nod. So just talking about some of 595 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,280 these animals, we had this early Jurassic group of dinosaurs. 596 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,960 So Cryolophosaurus, which is like so close to 597 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,639 Brachyolithosaurus, but cryo is going to be the indicator that 598 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:23,760 it's cold, right? It's like the cold crested 599 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,360 lizard. I want to just clarify that it 600 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,800 probably wasn't that cold that much, maybe a couple of times, 601 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,080 but it wasn't like this fucking current Antarctic dinosaur. 602 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,639 Like I just a lot of, I just so much of the stuff I was reading 603 00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:41,960 was like it was so cold and I was like, no, it's wasn't. 604 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,520 But it did probably experience like 30 to 60, three days of 605 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,440 complete darkness in a given winter. 606 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,679 And that is something really interesting. 607 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,280 I read this interesting paper that was like, OK, the dinosaurs 608 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,000 had two options. They can either hoof it on out 609 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,360 of there, right? Because you're still attached to 610 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,200 like, South America, Africa, Australia, maybe you can get get 611 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,160 north. And then they have this whole 612 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,560 argument. They're like, yeah, but one of 613 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,240 the dinosaurs from Antarctica, from the Cretaceous stuff is an 614 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:13,080 ankylosaur, Anarctopelta. And. 615 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,880 And they were like, itch can't migrate. 616 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,480 It's worthless at that. It has such stupid legs and such 617 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,200 a stupid body. I I just was really, really 618 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,000 entertaining. So this whole paper is going 619 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,720 well. If they can't migrate, then they 620 00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:30,480 have to essentially hunker on down. 621 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,120 But a lot of times it doesn't seem like they have a lot of 622 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,080 good evidence for hibernation or anything like that. 623 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,920 It's just that because it was warm enough, there was still 624 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,160 plant growth and they could rely on their other senses to get 625 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,760 through the month to two months of pure darkness, they were just 626 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,160 fine. It doesn't look like they were 627 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,600 hibernating or anything quite like that, because again, while 628 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,240 it was S, it still was quite warm for both the early Jurassic 629 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,360 and this Cretaceous stuff. I also just have to tell you 630 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,280 that as I was doing this, there were so many fun little Easter 631 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,760 eggs of animals that we're obsessed with that have a tie to 632 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,240 Antarctica. And one of the first ones is in 633 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:14,600 the same formation that Crylophosaurus is discovered is 634 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,360 also so asaurapodimorph. So there's the first one for me 635 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:24,960 to go, what is its name? Glacialosaurus, Something like 636 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,600 that. Sure, we'll go with that. 637 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:28,240 And yeah. And then we've got a cool 638 00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:31,360 ankylosaur that's more like. So yeah, the early Jurassic 639 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,800 stuff is like 185,000,000 years old. 640 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,360 People really love Cryolophosaurus because it was 641 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,280 one of the biggest theropod meat eating dinosaurs of all meat 642 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,720 eating dinosaurs across the world at this time, which is 643 00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:48,240 pretty cool that it was in Guan Dwana and it had this stupid 644 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:52,040 kind of comb Crest on its face that has been argued if it had 645 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,000 any. Yeah, very. 646 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,320 It's very, very, yes. Bird ornamentation style. 647 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,680 And a lot of folks think it's probably for species recognition 648 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,760 because it looks like it would have been worthless for like, 649 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,800 interspecies combat. And, you know, people want to 650 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,480 make it all about, like, violence. 651 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,200 So a lot of folks are saying no, it was probably just for. 652 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,240 Because that's about chickens. Use their. 653 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,120 For looking good. Bitch slapping each other with 654 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,000 their heads right. It's definitely always 655 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,040 aggression, never attraction. Never. 656 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,960 Yeah, never. But do they do that? 657 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,840 I'm not familiar enough with chickens it seems. 658 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,960 Like they don't have chickens, don't head butt chickens have? 659 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,320 They have nasty ass claws. So they will they'll stab each 660 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,000 other with their claws. Yeah, or pack each other. 661 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,800 Yeah, well, that was that's probably what Cryolithosaurus 662 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:42,800 was doing too. I don't know. 663 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,120 Everybody loses it for cry, you know, cry me a river. 664 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,440 It was definitely like dealt with darkness, but I don't think 665 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,920 it actually had to. They don't think that it was 666 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,480 probably like burrowing. There's no indication that any 667 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,320 of these dinosaurs here were good at burrowing, but they did 668 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,160 compare. This was also about the North 669 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:07,160 Pole hadrosaur legs to the legs of Caribou and how they are 670 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,600 similar adaptively and this comparative method to show that 671 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,240 they were well built for long migrations depending on the 672 00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:16,960 season. But then they just kept going 673 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,720 back to the stupid ankylosaur and being like ankylosaur. 674 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,120 Why do you not follow the rules? Yeah, it was like they literally 675 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,080 said it lacked fossorial adaptations and was likely 676 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,760 incapable of finding sufficient shelter, so it must have been 677 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:38,560 subsistence over winter to be the most acceptable means of 678 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,560 adapting to these dark, dark polar days. 679 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,120 And they also really want to point out that these dinosaurs 680 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,640 are like, no, no, no, no, no. They were able to handle colder 681 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,240 in climates because these assemblages from the Jurassic 682 00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:57,880 and Cretaceous stuff have dinosaurs but lack turtles and 683 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,360 crocodiles. And therefore they also made a 684 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,280 point that This is why dinosaurs did not go extinct at the KT 685 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,680 boundary because they can't handle the cold. 686 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,520 That's obviously bullshit because Cryolophosaurus was like 687 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:13,360 building igloos and having itself a grand old time. 688 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,760 So I take all of that with a big grain of salt because I have 689 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,640 seen many dinosaur paleo sites where they just ignore turtle 690 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,080 and crocodile material as they're digging up dinosaurs and 691 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,320 pay no mind to it. And I'm also like, I don't think 692 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,400 anyone is claiming that the asteroid hit and then just 693 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,840 cooling is what did it to the Dinos. 694 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,440 I think there were a lot. A. 695 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,640 Lot of negative factors, yes. So yeah, that's kind of the the 696 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,200 take on some of the southern dinosaurs is that they maybe 697 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,400 they could handle some gold. They definitely handle handle 698 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,760 darkness and the Ankylosaurus couldn't migrate away. 699 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,400 Ankylosaurus were just like fucking facet hounds that were 700 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,240 just stuck where they were. Wow, that's really interesting 701 00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:01,680 because the papers I read for the Arctic had excruciatingly 702 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,120 different interpretations. Not only. 703 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,000 Do they not do things like say Oh well the cold must have 704 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,800 killed the dinosaurs? There are papers out there that 705 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,760 straight up claim the cold is what actually gave birth to 706 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:20,320 dinosaurs. That that I did not see that 707 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:21,920 coming. No, no I didn't. 708 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,280 You even wrote it in here and I didn't. 709 00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:26,840 I didn't even pick up what you're putting down. 710 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,600 It's a pretty alien concept, but some of our evidence comes from 711 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,200 places like the Jungar Basin, which is that it was at 70 to 712 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,280 75° latitude. So it was higher than Juno. 713 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,080 It probably had some colder winter temperatures. 714 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,240 It probably had some darkness. But in one paper, they noted 715 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:48,360 that, you know, Jung Garbyson is like there. 716 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:53,520 I think it's maybe the only high latitude Triassic slash Jurassic 717 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,600 site that we found so far. So like that's part of why it's 718 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,720 so exciting. There's not actually a ton of 719 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:01,320 evidence for dinosaurs there. They found a couple of 720 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,720 footprints, but this paper also discussed evidence for kind of 721 00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:09,240 a, a differentiation at the end of the Triassic between where 722 00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:12,880 dinosaurs were and where other tetrapods were if you looked 723 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,560 across the planet. So during the Triassic and the 724 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,480 Jurassic, they pointed out that the continents were all smashed 725 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,200 together to an extent that essentially an animal could 726 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,920 theoretically walk from pole to pole, essentially, not all the 727 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,800 way necessarily. And that would be a very 728 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,480 exhausting journey, but there was like a lot of room for these 729 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,640 animals to live in. And they pointed this out 730 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,400 explicitly because because at that point you do not find 731 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,040 herbivorous dinosaurs close to the equator. 732 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,600 You find them further away from the equator because they 733 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,640 theoretically were getting out competed by animals that could 734 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,440 deal with hotter temperatures a little bit better. 735 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,560 Because being an herbivore, you have gut biomes, right? 736 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,040 So like it's you're already bigger, which makes you warmer. 737 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,160 If you have gut bacteria kind of digesting thing for you, they 738 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,120 will also produce heat. So that makes you warmer. 739 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:11,000 And then they also point out that dinosaurs had feathers of 740 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,480 some kind or another. And it looks more and more like 741 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:19,920 maybe that was an ancestral characteristic because every 742 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:24,120 single like every one of the big branches of dinosaurs has some 743 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,480 sort of feather somewhere in its family. 744 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,680 And so do pterosaurs. And while pterosaurs are not 745 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,640 dinosaurs, they are below dinosaurs on that evolutionary 746 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,000 tree. So it seems likely that feathers 747 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,520 were something that they had in common, and feathers initially 748 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,360 evolved for thermal regulation, for insulation. 749 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,280 So these animals, these dinosaurs probably were a little 750 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,280 bit hotter. They were probably warm blooded. 751 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,080 They may have had like some down and that made it so that they 752 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,920 weren't very competitive with other animals in kind of the 753 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,280 middle zones of our planet because it was too fucking hot. 754 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,280 So at the time of the Jurassic, SAS, Triassic, when you have 755 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,240 2000 parts per million of CO2, you know, you have seasonal 756 00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:10,760 freezing up at higher latitudes, but you have dinosaurs that seem 757 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,600 to be dealing with that pretty well. 758 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,800 And we don't have at that point, we have evidence that they were 759 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,920 up there because as we have footprints and stuff, but we 760 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,960 don't have a lot of high latitude sites at that 761 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,040 particular time period with dinosaurs. 762 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:23,640 So we can't tell if they were there year round. 763 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,800 But they theorized in some of these papers that essentially 764 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,880 that gave herbivorous dinosaurs in particular, a little bit of 765 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,040 an advantage when a big disaster happened at the end of the 766 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:39,000 Triassic known as the Central Atlantic Magmatic Province. 767 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:44,000 So this was a longer eruption. It happened for I think several 768 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,680 million years. And while it did also pump more 769 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,880 of that goddamn CO2 into the air and was partly responsible for 770 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,720 the extremely high CO2 of the Triassic, it also sometimes 771 00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:56,360 would create volcanic winters because it would have dropped 772 00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,280 particles like sulfur, which means that the Triassic would go 773 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,480 from really fucking hot to really fucking cold. 774 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:07,640 And it means that while when it would get hotter, those hot 775 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,560 adapted animals could just kind of move up and out, when it 776 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,160 would get colder, they would start to lose. 777 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,560 So these tetrapods, not the dinosaurs, they would lose 778 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,360 basically like niche space, but the dinosaurs had already been 779 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,800 adapted. They were already they were born 780 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:26,640 in the cold, the very limited gold of the Triassic and they 781 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,840 were ready to take over, which is why we see this massive 782 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:35,000 explosion of of herbivorous dinosaurs in the Triassic. 783 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:36,720 Sorry, explosion in the Jurassic. 784 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:37,880 Wow. But we do notice that this 785 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,520 actually kind of continues with sauropods in particular. 786 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,160 So the biggest of the big herbivorous dinosaurs, they 787 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,000 actually seem to have preferred cooler climates, which doesn't 788 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,120 mean that they were like, let's go like shoot down an ice cap. 789 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,600 But like as far as the climate extremes go, they would have 790 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,520 they were a little bit more interested in cooler climates 791 00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,160 than they were in the Super heated kind of Equatorial 792 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,880 regions. So the Arctic gave birth to 793 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,680 dinosaurs. That is, that is, I mean, I was 794 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,760 just like, yeah, those large bodied animals want nothing to 795 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:14,680 do with the equator. It was like elephants, rhinos. 796 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,440 Oh. Those, but they're still 797 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,120 nowhere. They're still nowhere as big as 798 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,520 the sauropods. Like not even not even close. 799 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,320 So as someone who was who went through the last part of my 800 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:30,920 pregnancy in the summer, I wanted to be as far north as 801 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,920 humanly possible. It's way hotter this summer and 802 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,960 I am just like, thank you science. 803 00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:40,840 I'm not pregnant. I would be so be so miserable. 804 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,480 It's it's a more recent thing. I think that the paper I was 805 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,240 reading it came out like in 2022 or something. 806 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,600 So it definitely has some some ways to go to be proven and 807 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,840 looking for early Triassic sites with higher latitude are 808 00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:57,880 definitely going to be kind of key. 809 00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:01,280 But we do know that at least in the Arctic by the Cretaceous 810 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,880 dinosaurs were fucking adapted for the Arctic. 811 00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,040 Like we still don't 100% know how they were dealing with the 812 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:09,920 darkness. It looks like some of them maybe 813 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:14,560 had pretty good eyesight, but we do suspect that some of them 814 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,800 were living there year round. They weren't just like the 815 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,760 Ankylosaurus that just got ditched. 816 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,920 They seemed to have. Been guys voluntary. 817 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,600 So there's a Arctic site in Alaska called the Prince Creek 818 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,120 Formation, and it had at the time it was about 80 to 85° 819 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,240 latitude. So really, really far north, 820 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,400 very close to the the north. That's very far because of that. 821 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,320 Very close, right, that's. Super far right, like 90 years N 822 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,400 so that's not far off. And as a result, they would have 823 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:53,880 had up to 120 days of continuous winter darkness, which is 824 00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:55,640 there's a lot. And that's a lot. 825 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,720 Of course, when you have 120 days of continuous winter 826 00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:02,000 darkness, you also have 120 days of light. 827 00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:04,920 So that's the thing about the Arctic is you can't just be 828 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,320 like, let me invest in great night vision because then you're 829 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,160 going to be blind during the summer. 830 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,680 So you have to, you have to find some way of dealing, right? 831 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,360 You have to be adaptive. And at the time, it had a mean 832 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:27,280 annual temperature of 6°C, which is 43°F, which sounds insanely, 833 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,280 yeah, until. So I looked up. 834 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:35,680 OK, sounds insanely cold to me. And then I looked up what the 835 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,960 mean annual temperature is for both where I live in central 836 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:44,320 Washington and where you live in Colorado, and my mean annual 837 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:50,160 temperature is 8°C or 47°F. Fuck my life, why did I move 838 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:57,480 here? And then yours is 10°C or 50°F. 839 00:47:58,240 --> 00:47:59,720 So it's. Too hot. 840 00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:03,600 And of course, yes, as it's not like Amy is out here sweating. 841 00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:08,560 When it gets to be 60°F, it does get very hot both in Colorado 842 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,560 and in Washington, and it gets very, very cold. 843 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,280 We have many days here of negative temperatures. 844 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,880 So it is important to recognize that these mean annual 845 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,520 temperatures are an average of the entire year. 846 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,480 Like you don't have a 40° summer. 847 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:27,280 You have, you know, negative degree winters and positive 848 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,400 degree summers, right? Yeah. 849 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,240 And it's just all on the opposite time of year if you're 850 00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:35,280 on the South Pole, which is. That is. 851 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,160 Weird. I don't like that, remember. 852 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,280 The the, the hemisphere season thing, that one does fuck with 853 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,280 me. But we do know that in Prince 854 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,920 Creek formation, even though you know, it is a lower annual 855 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,240 temperature, it's not probably as cold as it seems when you 856 00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:51,480 think about mean annual temperature. 857 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,600 But there probably were freezing conditions in the winter. 858 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,520 There was probably occasional snowfall. 859 00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:01,240 But we do know for a fact that dinosaurs were here year round. 860 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,680 So you need some very serious evidence to know that dinosaurs 861 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,320 weren't ditching at certain times of the year. 862 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:13,320 And that is of course eggs or babies, because if you have eggs 863 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,120 or babies, neither of those things are great at moving 864 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,720 neither eggs nor babies, so. Right. 865 00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:20,800 I mean, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 866 00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:22,760 But but the. Eggs in particular. 867 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,360 Don't don't birds that migrate have their babies? 868 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,160 Where do they, you know, do they? 869 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,040 They don't nest all along. I guess they. 870 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,480 Nest in one spot. They do. 871 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,760 I don't know, nest in one spot. But they also have much faster 872 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,760 growth, right? So it would have taken a 873 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,520 sauropod or a hydrosaur dinosaur much longer to achieve 874 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,880 sufficient growth to get the fuck out of there by the 875 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,040 beginning of the winter. So they think that because 70. 876 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,440 So there's a bunch of dinosaurs found in the Prince Creek 877 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:57,400 formation. 70% of the families have a baby of some kind. 878 00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,600 So we know that they were probably laying eggs there. 879 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,920 We haven't found eggs I guess yet, but we found like 880 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,280 perinatal, so very close to being born, very recently born 881 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,680 and they also find several other growth stages. 882 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,960 So there's like kind of a full family tree effect that's 883 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,520 occurring there. And given the the growth rates 884 00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,240 of dinosaurs, they don't think that they were growing 885 00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:22,560 insufficient speed to get out of there and come back for the next 886 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,160 year. Yeah, I feel that. 887 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,800 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 888 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,960 So in the end, we basically just think that maybe dinosaurs were 889 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,800 too slow to be migrating annually, but they definitely 890 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,360 lived in the polls at least for some time of the year. 891 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:43,480 Yeah, some had those sexy long legs like those modern Caribou, 892 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,440 and some had stupid legs like Meg Kylos. 893 00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:48,640 I'm just kidding. I love Meg Kylosaurs. 894 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,040 It is just really funny to picture them migrating like, 895 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,640 come on, That's that's, that's great. 896 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,920 I love to picture like alternative travel modes for 897 00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,400 them, like maybe they were like body boarding down the coast or 898 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,280 something and that's the only way they got anywhere. 899 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,360 Yeah, but yeah. And kylosaurs not long legged. 900 00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,480 They were. If anything, it's the turtle, 901 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,800 turtle, turtle. It is the turtle. 902 00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,480 This is they're just hunkering down and floating downriver and 903 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,720 downstream and hoping that they get to a place where they can 904 00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:19,560 keep eating. Just rafting just. 905 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,240 Rafting, of course. But yeah, they were there at 906 00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:25,840 some parts of the year at the very least. 907 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:30,280 And yeah, that's the story of blue dinosaurs, at least as it 908 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:31,520 stands. But I'm sure there's more 909 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,720 research to come. Thank you for listening. 910 00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:37,880 If you like the podcast, be sure to rate and review us on your 911 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,600 listening platform of choice. We really appreciate it. 912 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,120 If you'd like to hear more and support the show, follow us on 913 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,080 Patreon for some exclusive bits so we're on our various social 914 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,800 media platforms. You can follow Amy on Instagram 915 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,680 at Mary Eddings Revenge. And Megan on Instagram and 916 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:56,040 TikTok at Geopedal Fabric or both of us at Weird and Dead on 917 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,960 Instagram and TikTok. This podcast is part of the 918 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,200 Geology Podcasting Network. Produced by the traveling 919 00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,160 geologist Chris Spencer. Cover art provided by Chris 920 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,400 Spencer and the hosts. Our theme song is Unlock Me by 921 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,560 Praz Kunal. Editing services provided by The 922 00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,840 Amazing. Pretty Bradley, hosted by and 923 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,680 researched by us, Amy Atwater and Megan Weatherall. 924 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:20,840 Thanks for listening. I I had a student in my one of 925 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,520 my geology 101 classes at like the very end of the class come 926 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,360 up and take like a selfie with me. 927 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,080 I think it was like a Snapchat and just tell me that the earth 928 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,400 was flat and then walk out with a Dick head.