1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,000 You're listening to Weird and Dead, the paleontology podcast 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,120 that tells evolutions most embarrassing and bizarre 3 00:00:09,120 --> 00:00:10,760 stories. I'm Megan Weatherall. 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,560 And I'm Amy Atwater, and we're two living scientists who are 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,720 weirdly excited about dead things. 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,760 And this is an exclusive episode we filmed for Patreon and are 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:22,760 releasing as a holiday gift for you. 8 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,880 This episode is all about giant ancient lemurs, and the glorious 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,920 images of these lemurs crushing birds and contemplating their 10 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,520 existence are available over on the public side of our 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,160 patreonpatreon.com/weird and Dead podcast. 12 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,320 Did you know that there's more than an entire season of full 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,720 length exclusive episodes over there? 14 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,440 You can binge them all for a mere $5.00 a month. 15 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,320 Like always, this is our podcast, even though it's a 16 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,280 exclusive episode. And quite frankly, since we 17 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,680 originally filmed these two go on Patreon, we kind of assumed 18 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,400 that we could just be extra gross. 19 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,040 So pay attention to the warnings in the description. 20 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:02,640 This episode is all about giant lemurs of Madagascar. 21 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:09,440 Now I want you to imagine Once Upon a time there were even more 22 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,240 lemurs in Madagascar, and these lemurs were swole. 23 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,880 Heaven, Burr, swole, there are big, big, big ones. 24 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:23,680 There were ancient lemurs in Madagascar that went extinct 25 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,000 fairly recently. So we are talking within the 26 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,200 last 1000 to 300 years. That means that they are very 27 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,840 commonly referred to as sub fossil lemurs. 28 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,880 We've talked a little bit about what defines a fossil and I have 29 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,520 realized that this is kind of an interesting qualifier is that if 30 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,800 they go extinct within the last 10,000 years, like we're still 31 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,120 going to call them sub fossils even though they're not older 32 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,440 than 10,000 years. And I'm like, if you go extinct, 33 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,560 then all your bones are now sub fossils because, right. 34 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,440 I mean, I've never thought about it as like instinct dependent, 35 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:05,080 but maybe that's. Why the the sub fossil to fossil 36 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,600 categorization is a little bit weird because it seems like some 37 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,200 people have like that 10,000 year cut off and then some 38 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,000 people have totally different cut off. 39 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,360 I've heard if it's within like the last 15,000 years but it's 40 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,520 not fully per mineralized. I've seen people call that sub 41 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,520 fossil. So the word sub fossil has no 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,840 real meaning. Words don't mean anything, Amy. 43 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,600 It's subjective sub fossils, yes. 44 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,920 So whatever you want to call it, it essentially means they're 45 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:35,200 dead, but they haven't been dead for that long. 46 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,960 We are going to talk about the overlap with humans that is 47 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:41,640 documented. Yeah. 48 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,160 You you already know where it goes. 49 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,120 Arm wrestling. They were doing a lot of arm. 50 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:53,680 Wrestling and like lassoing and like riding on the backs of no, 51 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:59,880 mostly just murdering and eating some cool things just about 52 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,240 lemurs in general. So right, lemurs, as we've 53 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,680 talked about quite a few times, because they're freaking 54 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,000 amazing. They're on the island of 55 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,640 Madagascar, which is off the coast of Africa. 56 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,040 Lemurs used to be much more widespread than that in their 57 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,120 evolutionary history, but they went extinct everywhere except 58 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,800 Madagascar. Now, because Madagascar has been 59 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,320 isolated as an island for, you know, 60 million years, 60 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,520 depending on who you ask, that can change that number. 61 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,800 But let's just go with like about 60 million years of 62 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,920 isolation. So that means that there have 63 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:35,680 been opportunities for these, like, radial adaptations similar 64 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,840 to I was just like, it's like the beak of the Finch, but 65 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,760 instead it's like the big ass and body ass lemurs. 66 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:45,120 Yeah. The body of the lemur, Yes, it's 67 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,400 really interesting because it's like these giant lemurs were 68 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,240 doing things in their niche that are in like what as I will talk 69 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,800 about animals like sloths and koalas and monkeys that they 70 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,040 were able to, you know, kind of be like, hey, this is an 71 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,160 available space. I'm going to get super bulked up 72 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,520 and become essentially a gorilla lemur, which is just freaking 73 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,200 weird. So no, it's just really 74 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,280 fascinating. But they're still lemurs at the 75 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,680 end of the day. So some characteristics that we 76 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,200 see in lemurs, these are strepsorine primates. 77 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,399 They are not, they're not as closely related to humans and 78 00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:20,480 stuff. And so one of the things that 79 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,360 lemurs have is like a tooth comb, which just means all of 80 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,240 their incisors and I think even some of their canines, maybe 81 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,760 even, I'm not really sure, they're all really tightly 82 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,560 joined, literally like a little comb. 83 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,360 It's probably a grooming adaptation. 84 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,400 So that's really distinctive lemur trait. 85 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,080 They have the little like weird forks in their incisors too. 86 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,160 Like their incisors don't have a flat bottom? 87 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,080 Or is it just that like the teeth themselves become the 88 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:44,680 teeth of the? I think it's just the teeth 89 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,800 themselves become the teeth of the comb, yes, that they just 90 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,040 get pushed together quite a bit. And we see this in some of the 91 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,480 earliest lemur fossils of like these adapeds like Darwinius, 92 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,320 the one from Messel. Messel has has a tooth comb and 93 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:01,560 they have some other interesting things. 94 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,440 They have what we call a grooming claw. 95 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,440 Other cultures call it a toilet claw. 96 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,600 It is exactly what you think it might be. 97 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,880 So they've got some weird post cranial adaptations as well. 98 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,120 So a lot of these giant lemurs had those sorts of things. 99 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,720 We're going to talk about some weird ones. 100 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,440 Other things that are characteristic of lemurs too is 101 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,640 that they tend to have a little sexual dimorphism. 102 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,720 They don't and a lot of them are matriarchal and they're like 103 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,720 they're hierarchical structure, which is really cool as well. 104 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,400 So we don't really see change in canine size even in these sub 105 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,440 fossil ones. It's apparent that they too 106 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:40,600 didn't have like this male social dominance very much like 107 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,040 modern lemurs. And another cool thing about 108 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,280 lemurs that you've talked about is the torpor aspect. 109 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:49,440 I'm lemurs. They I live in a very resource. 110 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,480 They can go through periods because of the just the seasons 111 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,040 not having a whole lot of resources. 112 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,520 And so they'll go into just like this hypo metabolism state and 113 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,920 just like chill the fuck out. And I guess these giant ones 114 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,640 were probably capable of that too. 115 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:03,960 So it's just really. Interesting. 116 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,200 Wild. Yeah, I know that like the the 117 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,720 small ones are the ones that have been the best studied as 118 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,480 far as torquer goes, but I didn't know. 119 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,640 I wonder if that's also just because they're like when you're 120 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,720 studying torpor you have to plant temperature thing like a 121 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,120 little troll doll belly button gem. 122 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,880 I wonder if it's just a little bit harder to do that on a big 123 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:24,400 one. That's a good point. 124 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,480 I thought you're going to say when you do those, you have to 125 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,960 like, keep them in captivity and get them real cold. 126 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,520 Also that too. Yeah. 127 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,800 Yeah, hard to chill off a gorilla sized lemurs. 128 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,240 Not that we have them. But yes but they're sub fossils 129 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:38,840 so you know want to bring them back. 130 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:42,360 There is decent DNA but actually not great DNA either. 131 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,480 They have a really hard time figuring out how some of these 132 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,320 giant lemurs are actually related to modern lemurs even 133 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,000 though they didn't go extinct that long ago. 134 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,360 So just goes to show you that understanding evolutionary 135 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,680 relationships is not even if it's from more recent time 136 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,440 doesn't mean that it's any easier to understand how one 137 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,560 species are one genus might be related to another, which is 138 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,240 which is very cool. So today we're going to talk 139 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,480 about the major types of these giant sub fossil lemurs of 140 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,040 Madagascar. We're going to walk through 141 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:12,840 them. Then we're going to talk a 142 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,200 little bit about their human interactions, how we know all of 143 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:17,720 that. And then we're going to end by 144 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:22,120 talking about how big exactly were they and how controversial 145 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,320 that has been ever since their first discovery. 146 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,600 And there's just so many anecdotes of all of these 147 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,120 different hilarious size comparisons that are very. 148 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,400 So we're gonna have you Scroll down to your first image because 149 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,840 I know how. I'm excited. 150 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,840 There's one image that I know of about these guys just because. 151 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,960 I have no idea what you're talking about. 152 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,440 It is it is. Oh God. 153 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,040 All right. So this is this is probably one 154 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,080 of my favorite pieces of Paleo art. 155 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,960 I want you to envision Bigfoot with a giant like rough of white 156 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:01,920 fur, except Bigfoot is a gentle beast and he's leaning out and 157 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,360 he's got his arm outstretched, sort of like the Sistine Chapel, 158 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,880 but instead of touching God or humans or another lemur, he's 159 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,960 got a little a little parrot, a lighting on his finger and just 160 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:16,480 the decisions that went into this. 161 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:18,320 I fucking love it. I love it. 162 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,080 This is creepy. This is amazing. 163 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,120 It's, it's so strange and it's just such a strange decision, 164 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,240 but it's, it's everything. It's. 165 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,400 Everything. It was a good decision. 166 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,919 I really like that you pointed out the weird white kind of like 167 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,559 fluffy fur around the face. It gives me very much founding 168 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,640 father vibes like. Like mutton chops? 169 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:42,600 Yeah, it's definitely got white mutton chops. 170 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,400 Or like, even like we can go back to the old country. 171 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,400 Like this is like Mr. Dossi, you know, the Mr. Darcy lemur. 172 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:54,160 I also love how human the hands are, even though, as I just told 173 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,800 you, lemurs have specific adaptations to their their hands 174 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,960 and feet. So it's very creepy. 175 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,280 It's not accurate in the slightest. 176 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,920 It isn't at all. Is he actually maybe killing 177 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:08,880 that bird? Like it kind of looks like he's 178 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,560 like letting the bird a light on him. 179 00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:13,520 But as I look at it closer, it looks like maybe he's grabbing 180 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:14,360 it by the. Yeah, but you. 181 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:15,640 Can. Oh, yeah, no, maybe. 182 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,840 Maybe. I was going to say yeah, yeah. 183 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,600 Like what my son does now with the cat. 184 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,040 Yes. Yeah, oh, danger. 185 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,080 So far so good. Yeah, but the. 186 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,520 Bird doesn't look distressed. Doesn't it? 187 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:32,960 I don't know. Look at its head. 188 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,360 Its head is back, but maybe it's singing. 189 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,840 I envision this as very much. Which fucking Disney movie is 190 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,720 that where she just sings to all of the forest creatures all the 191 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,680 time and Sleeping Beauty. Yeah. 192 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:45,520 And they, like, make her outfits and shit. 193 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,200 Like, I think that's kind of what's. 194 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,240 That's what I. Sleeping Beauty lemur version 195 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:51,960 plus mutton shops plus, that's what. 196 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,800 We're humanoid lemur. Yeah, super. 197 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,640 Weird. Or possibly bird murder. 198 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,200 It's really kind of hard to tell from this image. 199 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,080 And I Yeah, love the duality. It's up to interpretation. 200 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,080 And I really think so. We actually did a blog post on 201 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,280 giant lemurs back in like 2012 I believe. 202 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:11,840 And. I think and the only thing I 203 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,680 remember is this photo. Yeah, and I think this photo may 204 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:19,320 have been the inspiration. I think like the photo maybe 205 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,560 even came first, which is just very fascinating. 206 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,800 So that is definitely going to be an eye catcher for folks. 207 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,560 But if you want to scroll on down to the next picture, this 208 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:32,840 is the one you can look at while I go over some of our different 209 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,400 taxa that we have here. So you want to describe what 210 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,120 you're looking at just to get us started? 211 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,640 Sure, this is an image of. Let's see how many different 212 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,920 lemurs are there. There's seven different lemurs. 213 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:47,880 One is just there for a sense of scale. 214 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,520 The injury is just to show you. Is that what that is? 215 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,560 That's a modern lemur that some of these are closely related to. 216 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:55,640 And so that's just giving you a sense of scale. 217 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:58,160 Yep. It looks like Pooh Bear with. 218 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:03,120 Absolutely. Yeah, and I was giggling because 219 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,120 they've drawn several of them as being like climbing or 220 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,600 suspensorial, so like sloths, like hanging upside down. 221 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,240 But of course, when you when you draw animals like this, there's 222 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,640 always the temptation to like extend one of the arms out. 223 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,400 And so a lot of them look like they are like high fiving a 224 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,160 tree. Archaeoindres looks like it's 225 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,840 doing a full Hamlet play, staring at its. 226 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:33,200 Own hand. Yeah, yeah, it's got some some 227 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,520 interesting hand postures, I'd say. 228 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:42,000 And a mystery Pooh bear. Are you looking for the best 229 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,880 possible dinosaur or fossil related book for a kid in your 230 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,160 life? Amy wrote one. 231 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,960 It's got these amazing touchable illustrations and while it is 232 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,160 completely child friendly, some of our favorite not so 233 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:53,760 appropriate animals are hidden throughout. 234 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,600 Get your copy of The Fossil Keepers Treasure today wherever 235 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:01,320 you buy books. Looking for fresh fashion with a 236 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,640 science twist? 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It's blacked out. 242 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,360 Everybody else is in full color but the Pooh Bear. 243 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:29,960 Is is the Pooh bear is our modern, our modern taxa taxon 244 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,800 here, while the other in color ones are some artistic 245 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,200 representation of these sub fossil giant lemurs. 246 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,120 So we have three different groups who are depicted here. 247 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,160 The first one we're going to talk about is arguably my 248 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,440 favorite though man, I found out there was another contender. 249 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,360 So there's three main groups, but I'm going to talk about two 250 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,520 little rando ones too. But out of the three groups, the 251 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,040 one that really sparked a lot of this is the sloth lemurs. 252 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,160 All right, so this is Paleopithicidae. 253 00:12:58,440 --> 00:12:59,960 I'm going to call them sloth lemurs. 254 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,680 All right, So what you're looking at in the image there is 255 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,240 the one climbing the brown one that's climbing sloth, like 256 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,360 that's Paleopropithecus. So that is one of the most giant 257 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,480 of these. But the biggest of the bigs is 258 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,480 RKO injuries, the one that's on the bottom there shaking its 259 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,880 fist at the kids in its yard. And so those are. 260 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:20,480 Shake your fist like that. And then? 261 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,480 Amy's just making jerk off signs like I'm not going to notice. 262 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,400 And we've also got, I don't entirely know how to pronounce 263 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,480 it, but Babakodia, I think is generally it, it's the other one 264 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,120 that's fully inverted super sloth style and it goes full 265 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,120 sloth. So what I mean by when I say 266 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,280 sloth lemur is they're not weird. 267 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,560 They're they're not sloths, You know that which are totally 268 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,000 they're, which are weird, right. So sloths are Zenarthrans, which 269 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,400 are most like South American anyway, and these are all 270 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,000 obviously African. So these are the biggest of all 271 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,840 of the lemurs of all time. Archaeo Indris is the biggest of 272 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,360 the big. Now they had these long curved 273 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,000 hands and feet. That is how we are interpreting 274 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,680 them to be specialized hangers. One of the other ways we see 275 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:15,600 this, this kind of sloth like is that their arms are actually 276 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,280 longer than their feet. So they're doing a lot more of 277 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,200 the upside down hanging with their arms and their feet are 278 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,480 more robust and short to just kind of, I guess like a sloth. 279 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:32,040 Now they were interpreted to be like sloths, totally herbivorous 280 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,680 and all lemurs except for the ones that eat insects and stuff 281 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,640 like get never mind. So they were eating mostly 282 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,320 leaves is what they are thought to be. 283 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,160 And they were still in Madagascar when humans got 284 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,120 there. And there is quite a bit of 285 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,800 evidence of human butchery of the sloth lemurs, which is 286 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,840 really interesting too and sad, really depressing. 287 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,680 I think we write in the blog post and it's like Amy was only 288 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,080 1500 years too late from seeing one of her greatest loves. 289 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,120 And I was I missed out. But other people did actually 290 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,240 witness these, but not in a sense of like understanding 291 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,360 necessarily their entire biology. 292 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,320 So a lot of this interpretation is from the bones. 293 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,200 So one of the first guys who found the cranium of 294 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,960 Paleopropithecus, so the second largest is that he was like, 295 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,120 this motherfucker is an aquatic creature that is swimming at the 296 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,960 water surface with just its eyes, ears and nostrils barely 297 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:31,280 above the water. Literally, that is, and this 298 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:32,440 paper. What a wildly. 299 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,320 Different interpretation. He uses all of these different 300 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,360 anatomical reasoning for this of the paper. 301 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,000 Paper I was reading was like. Unfortunately, the post cranial 302 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,680 bones that he brought to bear up his argument did not even belong 303 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,240 to Paleopropithecus, so whoops, fail. 304 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,240 So sort of like a Diplodocus brontosaurusy, sort of. 305 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:52,400 Situation. Yes. 306 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,400 It's Apatosaurus and Brontosaurus. 307 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,880 Yeah, it's not that I care. I do. 308 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:01,960 I do. I have to. 309 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,000 I get paid money to care, so I do care. 310 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,840 Yeah. So Archaeo Indras is considered 311 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,080 one of the largest primates to ever evolve anywhere, anytime. 312 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:14,880 So we're not just talking about lemurs. 313 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,000 We are talking it is in the running of literal gorillas, 314 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,520 orangutans. Like it is fucking 315 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,320 Gigantopithecus is still bigger definitely, but it's still in 316 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,800 like are probably top 10 primates which is freaking wild. 317 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,880 I feel like it, really. If you're not a paleontologist, 318 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,840 it must sound very strange to not not have an idea of how big 319 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,800 an animal truly is. Like part of it is that you 320 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,640 don't usually have the full skeleton. 321 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,760 A lot of it is that you don't have like a good sense of how 322 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,680 that animal would stand. So like a horse that you stood 323 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,520 on its back legs is a lot fucking taller than a horse that 324 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,360 you stand on all fours, you know? 325 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,480 So like what it obviously that's not the typical body posture for 326 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,960 a horse, but when you're talking about an extinct animal, that 327 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,839 can be a lot more difficult to kind of describe. 328 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:08,440 So like, even things like height can be really difficult to 329 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,240 accurately describe because you don't know how that animal stood 330 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:15,079 or how tall it was on any given day or whether it were high 331 00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:17,079 heels. It's just it's always going to. 332 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:18,640 Be a mystery. It's fascinating. 333 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,920 So I'm going to have you go ahead and scroll on down to what 334 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:27,040 I mean by sloth lemur to see this articulated skeleton. 335 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,600 Please describe this beauty that you see. 336 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:38,160 Jesus. I mean, sloths are skeletally 337 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,160 horrifying. And I would say that this is 338 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,560 also quite disturbing. They have way longer, you know 339 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,480 how like everybody's like, oh, birds have such long necks. 340 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,360 Like if you really looked at a chicken that gets huge, like no, 341 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,480 sloths have creepily long arms and legs. 342 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,400 They are frightening and they are adapted. 343 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,960 Specifically they have a suspensorial like locomotion 344 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,000 system. So they have this, they're 345 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,520 designed to hang and dangle. And so they have really long 346 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:13,280 creepy hands and feet as well. And So what I'm looking at here 347 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:19,440 is a stretched out, lanky, upside down motherfucker with 348 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,440 fangs. Technically slots all their 349 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,240 teeth are fangs, but these This one is clearly a primate and has 350 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,960 giant chunky fangs and a. Really. 351 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,000 Oh, maybe I should add that other image back to this, but it 352 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,720 didn't have a scale bar, so I was pissed off. 353 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,480 Neither does this one, which is also frustrating, But this one, 354 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,960 Thank you. And I guess when I say canine. 355 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,480 So while they still had pretty chunky canines like Megan is 356 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,640 noticing, there wasn't dimorphism between the sexes 357 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,600 with those. So that's kind of what I want to 358 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,600 clarify again that yeah, they still had. 359 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,800 Because in a lot of primates, the males will have much bigger 360 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,440 canines than the females. Yes, exactly, and so also thank 361 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,720 you for pointing out. Very similar in this sloth. 362 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,800 However, when a sloth is hanging on a branch completely inverted 363 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,880 like it does, it is relying largely on its claws. 364 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:13,640 It has extended its claws, whereas sloth lemurs have just 365 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,400 done it with their fucking creepy long hands. 366 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,560 What I read is that they went full. 367 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,520 They went so hard for this that they couldn't have done anything 368 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,840 else with their hands. Like they were legitimately 369 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,680 curved. It is that like what you're 370 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,600 seeing isn't them? Like like, oh like what we would 371 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,840 do to bend our fingers over a bar? 372 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,160 No, they're, and not even that, but look how curved the 373 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,920 metacarpal is. Look how curved the first 374 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,880 phalanx is. So while sloths do it with their 375 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,320 claws, sloth gamers were like fuck that shit. 376 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,840 And they have normal nails like a primate does. 377 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:55,640 And but they have done the same adaptation for gripping the 378 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,920 branches by modifying their actual hands and feet to be able 379 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,200 to maximize their hanging potential here. 380 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,840 Which is and if you want to scroll on down to see exactly 381 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:13,240 how chunky their heads can get. That looks like an orienton. 382 00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:17,120 That is a chunky head and. Look at the nose of it too. 383 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:20,640 It like looks like a nose already, which is really 384 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,040 interesting. So another thing. 385 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,760 It's got like nostril bones, which is not a thing that 386 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,360 happens. Another thing that separates 387 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:32,080 lemurs are strepsarines, which literally translates to wet 388 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,640 nose. That is like the nose of a cat 389 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,440 or a dog when you boop it and it's a little bit wet, right? 390 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,240 That's what a lemur would have had. 391 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,160 Whereas haplarines, which are pretty much all other primates, 392 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,600 including us, that translates to dry nose. 393 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,600 It's interesting that it looks so different because it is. 394 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,960 They are using their noses differently than other primates 395 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,320 are of the same size. So like typically when you look 396 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,520 at a skull, rather it has a, a wet nose, a dry nose, it kind of 397 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,160 just has like this straight chunk of nasal bone and the, the 398 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,240 nostrils that you see or like the, the flared out sides of a 399 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,120 dog's nose, those are like cartilage and flesh. 400 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:09,920 They're not necessarily representative bone. 401 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,320 But this guy has two like he's got tits on his nose. 402 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,280 Like he's got two big Bony bumps. 403 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,280 Do you think that means he just had like a giant nose? 404 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,880 Like, did this guy just have like, just like this super 405 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,720 massive, wide heart-shaped nose? Part of me is now wondering if 406 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,640 this is reconstructed at all as well, which is why I went ahead 407 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,280 and threw in the other image into this document, which they 408 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,680 still have fucking weird noses. So go ahead and Scroll down to 409 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,160 see more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 410 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,720 But I don't think quite the same sculpted, like straight up 411 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,000 looking like it has a fucking nostril nose. 412 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,200 But here this one again. Look at Yeah, B. 413 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:53,480 No, absolutely. B has I. 414 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,480 So that's a really interesting observation. 415 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,640 And I don't know enough about modern. 416 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,320 Yeah, actually I have seen some lemur, modern lemur skulls that 417 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,840 don't really look like this. This this one pissed me off 418 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,880 because there's no scale bar. So I was like, what? 419 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,840 The and they're definitely not the same size, right? 420 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,640 So like they're all being. Presented as if they're not. 421 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:12,920 Yeah, they right. Exactly. 422 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,920 They're all being kind of put, which is probably why there 423 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,400 isn't a scale bar. But here again, you can see, I 424 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,800 mean, these things had bowling ball heads, which is really 425 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,440 interesting to like the depth of the Ramis of the of the 426 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,320 mandible. So like the back of the jaw, 427 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,800 like the angle of the jaw is like, I mean, it is a it's it's 428 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,120 chunky, it's swole. It is it's geeked out. 429 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:37,200 Like it's it's impressive. And I didn't read too much 430 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:38,560 around. I mean, I would assume that 431 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,280 those are adaptations to a highly folivorous lifestyle, 432 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,080 which is eating a lot of leaves. Eating leaves is hard, right? 433 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,640 Gorillas are also folivorous. So we also see quite the chunky 434 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,160 jaws with them. Same with maybe some of these 435 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,520 like, you know, the tough eating Paranthropus, Boise Eye and what 436 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,920 not the heart anyway. So it's just, it is it's 437 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,360 probably an adaptation to eating a lot of leaves. 438 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,040 Still very, very, very fascinating. 439 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,600 Incredibly thick zygomatic arches, which are your, your 440 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,880 cheekbones on your skull and just know from herbivore skulls 441 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,800 anytime you have a big mantibial angle, so like a big chunky, 442 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,040 like lower cheek. And if you have a thick 443 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,760 sagamatic arch that's associated with a really big masseter 444 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,840 muscle. So specifically, it's like 445 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,480 directing your chewing power towards the back of your tooth 446 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,680 row instead of being up in your clipping teeth. 447 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,440 So you're really good at grinding and slicing and not 448 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,080 necessarily, I mean, don't tempt a horse, but theoretically 449 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,520 they're not as good at nipping as they are at grinding. 450 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,080 Actually, you know what? Go ahead and stick your hand in 451 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,840 a horse's mouth and tell me what happens. 452 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,520 But I'm going to guess that you're going to get pulverized 453 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,800 on both ends and just slightly worse at the back end. 454 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,240 Right. And I mean, now that you say it 455 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,720 too, I am seeing some, you know, general similarities to those 456 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,560 oridans, like the really chunky oridans that you've worked on. 457 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,960 So these weird sheet pig mammal things that also have a lot of 458 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,320 these features including the thick zygomatics and you know, a 459 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:08,040 very chunky mandible as well. So yeah, would love to to learn 460 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,200 more about some of that convergence that may or may not 461 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,480 be occurring and these weird giant levers. 462 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,120 And then if we Scroll down again, this one gives you a 463 00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:22,560 slightly better sense of size. But motherfuckers, please denote 464 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,480 your fucking scale bar like it has a scale bar. 465 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,760 And I'm, I'm assuming that's three centimeters, but I don't 466 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,040 know because it doesn't. And that's why I included the 467 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,680 entire caption in it 'cause I'm like, did I just not see it? 468 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,080 But what you're looking at here is that it's Paleopropithecus on 469 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,440 the top, and then we have got Archaeo Indris on the bottom. 470 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,040 So within these sloth lemurs, this is showing you that again, 471 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,680 while they're both big ass chunky boys comparable in size 472 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:55,000 to the skull of a gorilla, this is RKO Indris just is like tops, 473 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,360 the tops, the cake. It is just the biggest. 474 00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:01,760 And they both have, again, as we're noticing, this weird nose. 475 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,720 So kind of curious about that. I'm super curious about that. 476 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,520 So those are the sloth lemurs. Now our next group that I'm 477 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,440 going to talk about are known. This is Megalodapidae and these 478 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,600 are the koala lemurs. So they can always they are also 479 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,600 get really large, but I found one article that was like, but 480 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,920 their heads were oversized for their bodies. 481 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,880 I was like, what? Let's let's Oriadonts have that 482 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,560 too. When you when you look at an 483 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,280 Oriadon skull, you can't imagine that it's the size of like a 484 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,160 regular animal because like Primerica Carious for example, 485 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:36,240 has a skull that's the size of a cow skull, but it's the size of 486 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,960 a like medium pig. It's not. 487 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,880 They just have giant. I guess it's like an ancestral 488 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,080 condition, at least in herbivores, to have a massive 489 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,040 fucking head. And then as you become more 490 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,400 derived in your herbivory, you often reduce the size of your 491 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,440 head because you don't need it, because you're doing more, At 492 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,600 least with with like ruminants, you're doing more digestion in 493 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,960 your stomach and less intense chewing. 494 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,920 So oh. My God, I wonder what the guts 495 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,640 of these giant lemurs was. Like. 496 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,760 That would be interesting, but we ate them all, so we don't 497 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,040 know. So we've got koala lemurs 498 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,200 there's. So this is the genus 499 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,520 Megalodapus, also thought to be quite large, about 5 feet long, 500 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,400 maybe 1 1/2 meters. That's the equivalent. 501 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,160 I'm not even going to the sizes, like the weight yet because we 502 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,280 have a whole section on that now. 503 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,440 They are called koala lemurs not because they're marsupials but 504 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,400 because they had similar bodies, which then they were like long 505 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,800 arm, short legs and big feet and hands for clutching tree trunks 506 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,160 or branches. So even though they were fucking 507 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,320 giant, they still were probably very committed to life in the 508 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,840 trees. And they were. 509 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,160 They're described as slow climbers with huge pincher like 510 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,400 feet. Those are the ones in that first 511 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,920 image that are shown. Kind of just like doing a koala 512 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:56,760 thing like very much in. Hugging. 513 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,680 Yeah, tree hugging versus tree inverting. 514 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,560 Yeah. And so again, this one is some, 515 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,040 sometimes people say it's gorilla sized. 516 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,040 Spoiler alert, it wasn't. But, you know, it's it's fun to 517 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,880 talk about that kind of stuff. Now, some researchers also 518 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,680 think, so again, these are going to be another herbivorous group. 519 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,680 They're eating a lot of leaves and it's thought that they maybe 520 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,200 were reliable. Some of the trees in the 521 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,720 ecosystem were actually reliant on megaladapus to help disperse 522 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,280 seeds, kind of like what some folks have said with sloths, not 523 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,800 to confuse everyone. And then another interesting 524 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,560 that was pointed out from the Duke Lemur Center, which seems 525 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,040 like a very, very cool place based on their Instagram that I 526 00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:40,640 follow heavily, is that they point out that like, you know, 527 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,800 modern lemurs are very vocal, especially the injuries, which 528 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,840 is that like the another tree huggin one that's still alive. 529 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,400 And so they're like, and they're fucking loud. 530 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,960 So we can't even imagine how loud Madagascar must have been 531 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,120 3000 years ago when all these motherfuckers were just. 532 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,360 They're like, they must have been deafening with their very 533 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:03,240 loud calls, which is. Yeah. 534 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,520 So if you want to Scroll down to see the size of this one, I like 535 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,120 this better because it's in someone's hand. 536 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:10,040 So thank you, stranger on the Internet. 537 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,520 Oh, George Perry. Are we talking about the 538 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,960 mandible? The mandible and it has a skull 539 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,200 under it too. So these are your koala lemur 540 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,960 images. So again, fucking huge. 541 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,960 And in the bottom photo and the bottom lower right is a modern 542 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,120 day lemur skull. I was very annoyed that they 543 00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:30,400 didn't tell me which one, but whatever. 544 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,880 None of them are all that big. Do you know the biggest of the 545 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,120 modern lemurs? Megan Pop quiz. 546 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,360 The one that has the stripey tail. 547 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,200 No, that's a ring tail. Actually I might be wrong about 548 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,840 this, so maybe I'm going to take this quiz. 549 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,960 Back is it? Is it the red one? 550 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,560 Ruffed lemur. Now I'm Googling. 551 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,680 It's the fuzzy fuzzy one. See now I. 552 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,000 Can't oh damn it, it's the injury, it's the injury. 553 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,760 It's your Pooh bear one. So the injuries are what the 554 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,040 sloth lemurs are most closely related to. 555 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,640 So injuries are cool. They're also in a group with the 556 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,080 the Sifax Sifax. It's spelled sifaka, but it's 557 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,080 pronounced sifaka. And we had this, we had this 558 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,440 event at UT Austin that was like for kids and stuff. 559 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:21,440 And we had some jumping contest because the they're like super 560 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,200 efficient at at jumping. And anyway, all the kids are 561 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:25,840 like, I'm a sifak. I'm a sifak. 562 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,440 And I was like, this is hilarious. 563 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,840 This is this is some good shit. So. 564 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,000 So you're telling me Zaboomafoo is not the biggest lemur? 565 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,400 Which one is Zaboomafoo? Isn't that a black and white 566 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,360 roughed lemur I. Think it's a ring tail. 567 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,840 It's also a puppet for large portions of time. 568 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,360 I should know. I watched the Zaboom. 569 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,040 Yeah, exact. This is a boomafu lemur. 570 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,680 I think it's a rough. Lemur, I love that you are 571 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:53,480 tripping. Oh. 572 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,680 No, it's a seafaka. It's a seafaka. 573 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:56,480 Oh, is it? Is a seafaka. 574 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,640 I love that you're tripping more over Zaboomafu than you are over 575 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,440 the pronunciation of these Latin names. 576 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,920 Like that's. You're such a nerd. 577 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,880 You have no idea how many times this morning I was like 578 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,880 paleopropathicity, paleopropathicity. 579 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,520 Anyway, so I did. I did it a lot. 580 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,960 So those are our koala lemurs. Cute, cute, cute. 581 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,240 Now the one is. Pause you here because you just 582 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,880 keep saying cute, cute, cute, fucking monstrous. 583 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:29,320 That is terrifying looking like, but it's got a giant sagittal 584 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,400 Crest, which is a place where muscles attach that are often 585 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,000 for the front of your mouth. That's where the the ouchie, 586 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,280 ouchie bite, bite, bite muscles go. 587 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,120 So yeah, that looks, that looks. That looks like. 588 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,520 That's terrifying. That's a koala on steroids. 589 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,160 Look at those fangs. Also, again, a weird nose that 590 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,160 that nasal. Bone and a weird nose, yeah, no, 591 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,200 it like it's like a, it's the opposite of a trunk. 592 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,200 It's like extended. You know what it looks like? 593 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,840 It's actually a pig. That's what pig noses look like. 594 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,040 Oh well, pigs still have a semi. They have like. 595 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,520 Pre whatever they have. A semi mobile snout. 596 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,000 Yeah, they've got a mobile snout, but it's made of 597 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,040 cartilage instead of being made of cartilage muscle. 598 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,600 So anyways. Well, I think we might have to 599 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,480 go down some other rabbit holes sometime. 600 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,320 You know, if you go back to the first image of the beautiful 601 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,200 bipedal lemur, beautiful, you know, that's what I'm referring 602 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,600 to. This is it's gorgeous. 603 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:24,960 It's. Right, the one that's crushing a 604 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,080 bird. Yeah, right. 605 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:28,920 Well, it's debatable. I mean. 606 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,320 Debatable. That picture has captured a lot 607 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,240 of what I'm feeling right now. Like, is this something that 608 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,280 would be terrifying, or is it something that's gentle but also 609 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,400 probably would fuck you up because you can't really trust 610 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,680 that just because an animal eats plants, it won't beat the shit 611 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,120 out of you. Like, right. 612 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,920 It's really got the vibes of these slothammers down. 613 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,080 Yeah, exactly. It's we can understand now where 614 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,000 this is coming from. Yeah. 615 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,280 So our last of the major three groups is the RKO lemurs. 616 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,000 OK, So these are the monkey lemurs. 617 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,200 So on that image that had all 7 under six of them in there, the 618 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,600 ones that were on the ground doing the terrestrial motion, 619 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,840 those are the monkey lemurs. So out of the the ones we've 620 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,160 talked about, they're not as big. 621 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,680 They're more baboon sized. They do more of like they seem 622 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,280 to be doing more of a baboon or rhesus monkey kind of behavior, 623 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,120 which are terrestrial monkeys. And yeah, again, they seem to 624 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:24,960 have convergence with baboons and macaques. 625 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,200 That's what a rhesus monkey is. They are also thought to be hard 626 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,920 food specialist. But we're all and that there may 627 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,920 have actually been some evidence of omnivore in the monkey 628 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,920 lemurs. I don't have as much on this 629 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,280 one. You can Scroll down to see the 630 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,560 one picture of the cute little Bony face, which isn't cute at 631 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,120 all, but I'm going to. Go. 632 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,560 Oh my God, that poor thing. Look at its Yeah, look at that 633 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,600 limb bone. I don't even know if that's a 3D 634 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,160 print or a real bone. Again, very little information. 635 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,080 Thanks Internet. That looks like real. 636 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,040 So what I'm looking at right here is we've got a skull in the 637 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,760 middle and we've got a regular femur on the left hand side and 638 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,920 we've got a very, very infected femur on the right hand side. 639 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,680 It's got all of these little lumps and divots of bone that 640 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,120 appear to have grown up, which that happens when like you 641 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,800 damage the like the periosteum, like the outside lining of the, 642 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,200 the bone. And so it will like lift up and 643 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,280 you get like these weird deposits of bones. 644 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,920 So bone bruising will cause that, but so will various 645 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,120 infections. And judging by the fact that the 646 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,320 entire thing is covered, that boy had a sick, a sick leg. 647 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,960 Jesus. Yeah, it stays. 648 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,360 It doesn't look that great either. 649 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,840 It doesn't. It looks pretty. 650 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,560 It looks pretty gnar. Yeah. 651 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,400 So they had a tupper anyway, so great. 652 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,400 These, even though they're sub fossils, still limited numbers 653 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,640 of these specimens. We're working well and that's 654 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,200 quite I was kind of thinking about that when we talked about 655 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,720 like the a lot of these seem to have kind of fucked up noses 656 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,680 like they've got like big nose protuberances. 657 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,560 I wonder if that's also just maybe we have one really fucked 658 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,080 up skull and the rest of them didn't have it. 659 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,080 Like sometimes you you can't tell the difference between well 660 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,320 that one was a bit bit of a weird looking 1. 661 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,480 Tony was a little fucked when you don't have more than just 662 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:10,239 Tony. So. 663 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,239 Right. And think about it, if you only 664 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,840 find Tony and Tony's your only representation. 665 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,520 And This is why I have so many problems with dinosaur and human 666 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,920 evolution taxonomy, because I'm like, what if you just found the 667 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,679 fucking weirdo and you're trying to make all of these? 668 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,480 You need a good sample size so you can beat out the Tony's. 669 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,080 So then we have two other groups that don't get quite as big. 670 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,880 One of them is the Packy lemurs. These are like a ruffed lemur. 671 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,840 They're just a really big ruffed lemur. 672 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,639 Yay, cool for them. I don't have a picture of that. 673 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:42,239 They consumed fruit. So we're seeing quite the, like, 674 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,719 spread of different ecological roles. 675 00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:52,120 And then the last one I wanted to tell you, OK, is the giant 676 00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:53,080 eye. Eye. 677 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,159 Scroll down. There's a giant eye eye. 678 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,600 There's a motherfucking giant eye eye look at that picture. 679 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:06,760 Oh, it's horrifying. I love it. 680 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,920 I love it. I can't believe that one 681 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:14,640 extinct. And it was definitely still 682 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,800 extant when humans arrived. I found out a thing that said 683 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,960 that its incisors were collected, drilled and used for 684 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,480 like decorations and necklaces and stuff which is interesting. 685 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,320 That the incisors like nightmare fingers. 686 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,360 Well, so the first thing I immediately was like, do we know 687 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,040 if it had the same fucking nightmare? 688 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,720 Mare finger? So eye eyes, right? 689 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:37,640 The modern day eye eyes, which are also relatively large as far 690 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,080 as lemurs go. They have this very extended 691 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,640 digit, I think it's digit 2, and they use it to tap on trees and 692 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,160 whatnot and get grubs and it's creepy as fuck. 693 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,720 It is like way too long. It is very, very disturbing. 694 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:52,600 Yeah, it's how my mother plays Jenga. 695 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,840 She takes one of her fingers. She just. 696 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,160 She. Gently taps, but imagine new 697 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,640 game way longer. Yeah, we need to have someone 698 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,480 make us an II finger that you can put on your own finger, like 699 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,680 the little fake hand things. And then that's how we should 700 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,120 play a game of Jenga. Yeah, Oh my God. 701 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,600 But be so hard. Be so hard. 702 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,280 My mom does a great job of it, but her finger isn't like 703 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:25,320 supremely long so. So what I found out is that they 704 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,360 don't actually have a ton of material from this one. 705 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,400 So while they I read that it is very much just like a giant eye 706 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,160 eye and all ways of creepiness that that would entail. 707 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,480 However, it doesn't seem like we have a great sample size of 708 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,040 anything beyond a couple skulls and maybe a couple post cranial 709 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,440 pieces that don't necessarily include digits. 710 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,240 So I don't know. But I would assume that just 711 00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:52,520 being again, recent and just a giant I, I guess it had the 712 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,520 creepy fingers that would have been even bigger. 713 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,680 And for reference, I'm going to talk about size of this 1A 714 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,520 modern day I. I is about 5 lbs which is about 715 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,360 2.32 point. 7 lbs. They're very they're, you know, 716 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,280 got that wiry, scary fluff. I guess that's true. 717 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:16,400 The extinct ones, 11 to 18 lbs, like at least two if not like 3 718 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,600 to 4 times the size of a modern eye eye. 719 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,400 So just take a modern eye eye and multiply it by three and 720 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:25,440 that's what would have been waiting for you. 721 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,400 And it was nocturnal. It was definitely still a 722 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,000 nocturnal. And so they're more 723 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,640 insectivorous because as they're saying, eating bugs and grubs 724 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,680 and shit. And so that is what would have 725 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,880 been around at night in Madagascar like 1500 years ago 726 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,040 are fucking like small dog sized eye eyes. 727 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:47,800 Wow, Yeah, that's so gross. OK, so, and I've been talking, 728 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,840 I've been talking a lot about, yeah, humans, humans, humans. 729 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,600 So we do know that humans interacted. 730 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,840 There are these different quotes about early white people going 731 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:02,200 and hearing about regions that had hornless water cows that 732 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,320 would make large noises. These are probably translation 733 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,320 errors too, if you know what I mean. 734 00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:11,080 And so they very much did coexist with people and that 735 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,080 indigenous people of Madagascar would show these European 736 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,480 researchers places where they could find their bones and other 737 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,360 weird extinct things like the pygmy hippopotamus and stuff 738 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,360 like that. And some of those bones have 739 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,920 clear cut marks on them. So go ahead and Scroll down to 740 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,520 see a sloth lemurs. So this is back to 741 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,960 Paleopropiticus having a ton. And this is just one of many 742 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,040 that this document claimed to have. 743 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,520 And it was very, very clear that they're. 744 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,760 So we're seeing deliberate cutting and maturing marks on 745 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:49,000 this bone and it's above the medial epicondyle of the I don't 746 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,480 know what bone is, what has that lit long bone is. 747 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:55,800 That the humorist. Is that an arm? 748 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,080 Is that a humorist? I think that might be a 749 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,840 humorist. Epicondyle. 750 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,240 Whoops. Oh, it says it right there. 751 00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:03,640 The left humorous. Got it. 752 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,880 Right. OK, so we know that they're 753 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,520 eating them. And then I found this cool 754 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,080 paper. Go ahead and Scroll down that 755 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,840 there are actual legitimate cave paintings of these motherfucking 756 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,840 sloth lemurs. Oh, that's so cool. 757 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,640 In this scene, it is shown with a hunting scene with dogs to the 758 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,720 right and then kind of to the far left you can see a faint 759 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:25,640 thing that they think might be a weapon. 760 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,200 And at first when I looked at it, I thought that the sloth 761 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,760 lemur was full slothing it and the dogs were running towards 762 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,280 it. But as you can see in the 763 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,280 interpretation and the image below, it looks like it's like 764 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,760 dead on the ground with its legs straight up. 765 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,560 I don't really know what's going on here. 766 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,920 I mean, that makes more sense than hunting an animal in the 767 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:49,160 trees with dogs, so. What if it was like a really low 768 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,120 hanging tree? I mean, it might be helpful to 769 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,400 have dogs just to let you know there's something in the tree. 770 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,440 I guess they could tell you where it is. 771 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,640 Having seen my dogs corner many a squirrel, they're not going to 772 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,600 get it no matter how hard they try. 773 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,000 Right, right, right. So no, it is probably more and 774 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,040 then what it's just rigamoris, just not how you say it. 775 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,320 But I thought it's like arms are straight up well, you know. 776 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,000 Two of its arms It looks like two of its arms have been cut 777 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:16,960 off. Right. 778 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,640 Well, humans got hungry, yeah. That's really cool. 779 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,760 Yeah, yeah, it's very, it's really cool that there is. 780 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,120 I mean, there's just so many aspects to this story. 781 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,320 Really, really fascinating. And when it came back, like I 782 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,640 reread our blog post about this and it's pretty funny because 783 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,120 we're hilarious. Always have been, always will 784 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,080 be. And most of our article is US 785 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,040 and mostly me because I think I wrote this while you were on 786 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,840 vacation after you made me write about fossil fucking fungus. 787 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:52,760 And I, I, most of the article, I just bitch about how all of the 788 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,280 size estimates do not have any standard error associated with. 789 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,760 So every time, right? You've already been talking 790 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,000 about this. We've talked about this in other 791 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,920 episodes. If you only have like a bone 792 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,640 and, and in this case, a lot of it is like teeth versus like a 793 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,800 long bone. If you only have that to 794 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,360 reconstruct your size, there's always going to be errors 795 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,440 associated with those calculations. 796 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,640 And a lot of folks don't propagate those errors to show 797 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,800 you where the actual like, you know, like, OK, this one says 798 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,960 that it weighed 508 lbs based on molar teeth. 799 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,000 But if you look at something from the femoral head, it says 800 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,400 like something completely different, you know, and 801 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,800 especially if you don't actually list that error with it, then it 802 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,840 can. It's very meaningless. 803 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,520 And our example was actually pretty funny. 804 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,600 So let me see if I can. Find this. 805 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,520 We could just use that old material. 806 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,000 Oh, it was great. Actually, half of the images 807 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,640 I've shown you are from our blog post. 808 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,040 So I only remember that you. Are welcome us yes. 809 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,440 So a lot of them are saying like it's in the size range of like 810 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,640 330 to 414 lbs, but it still doesn't. 811 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,360 So a range is a little bit better, but still not really 812 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,800 talking about it. So we wrote in paleontology or 813 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,200 really any science where you're predicting body mass from a 814 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,680 bone, you accumulate standard errors from all your regressions 815 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,800 and calculations. The standard error is extremely 816 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,240 important when judging the validity of a mass estimate. 817 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,720 Let's say we use Amy's pinky toed estimator mass and 818 00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:22,640 calculate a value of 175 lbs ± 200 lbs and she's probably 175 819 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:28,600 lbs, But she could be 375 lbs or -25 lbs, making the estimate 820 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,600 completely statistically insignificant and therefore 821 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,000 shouldn't really be published. Which is our point. 822 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,880 Which is very just very funny. And then I continue to rant 823 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,840 about how I don't have access to a paper that supposedly had 824 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,880 better shit. So today I went and got me 825 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:46,440 access. I'm so proud. 826 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,840 Of you, I'm not going to say how, because it was. 827 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,480 You robbed a library, But yeah, yeah, sure, that's better. 828 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,760 Than what I did. So Yep, because like again, to 829 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,160 give you some ballpark estimates of what people have said, these 830 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,400 fucking fossil lamers like whey is really wide-ranging. 831 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,080 Megalodapus has been compared to that of a calf, a bear cub and a 832 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:11,520 Saint Bernard dog. I have no idea how much any of 833 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,600 those weigh except maybe a calf, but I have miniature calf. 834 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:18,600 But like a calf of, of Yeah, it's a cow calf anyway, 835 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,920 impressed by its very long skull, Radinsky incorrectly said 836 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,240 that Megalodapus was the largest of this extinct lemurs, even 837 00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:28,040 though it's actually Archaeoindris. 838 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,960 And then some people have said that Archaeoindris is about the 839 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,960 size of a human, maybe larger than a human, possibly gorilla 840 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,760 size, and possibly the largest primate ever, which is not true. 841 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,320 And and then, yeah, the Paleoprithecus has been compared 842 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,000 to a modern chimpanzee. And again, a lot of baboons are 843 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,320 used for RKO lemurs. So literally it's just like 844 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,680 whatever fucking animal you want to throw in. 845 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,200 It's been thought of for these sub fossil lemurs. 846 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,520 So finally I got access to that paper. 847 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,360 You can Scroll down to my final image, which is the table I've 848 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,320 been wanting for 10 fucking years. 12 years. 849 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:11,400 That shows us it's still great. It's still not great, but it's 850 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,560 it's, it's OK. They did do a lot of numbering. 851 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,600 They used as many elements as they could. 852 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,960 They used modern species, not just primates. 853 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,120 They also use the animals. We're comparing them to koalas 854 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,120 and sloths. And they, they tried to do a lot 855 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,800 of just standardization. I think it was a lot of looking 856 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,760 at the cross section of limb bones, at the, at the cortical 857 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,400 bone there to be able to get these rates. 858 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:40,040 So here we have RKO. Indras is given a mean weight of 859 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:47,000 161.2 kilograms, with the range of it being from 1:51 to 188. 860 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:53,360 A gorilla on average weighs 300 lbs, which is 136 kilometers. 861 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,160 Or I'm great with the metric system. 862 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,360 I was doing so well, except for that rigor, Morris. 863 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,080 I digress. The point is, RKO interest was 864 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,480 probably around the same fucking size as a gorilla. 865 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,400 It's really a gorilla sized lemur, but that was like 866 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,880 partially arboreal, which gorillas are. 867 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,480 Not you do. Not see those motherfuckers in 868 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,280 the trees. So I mean, this baby was big. 869 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:27,320 The average is 161 kilograms and that is 355 lbs. 870 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:32,200 And that's so we're talking about a 355 LB lemur, 355 lemur. 871 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,880 That's wow. So bizarre and I just. 872 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,440 I know that from other research, a lot of times it can be 873 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,800 difficult to tell the difference between something that is 874 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,400 arboreal and something that digs a lot. 875 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,320 And I wonder if maybe this needs to be reevaluate. 876 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,200 Like, that's a huge fucking animal to have in a tree. 877 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,240 Yes. And I know that the the trees in 878 00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:56,440 Madagascar at that point were a little bit weird, but I thought 879 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,080 they were just spiky and short. I don't think that they were 880 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,360 like redwoods, like so big. Archaeo Indris. 881 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,720 The biggest one, this £350. Chonco Chonco lemur is a sloth 882 00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:10,360 lemur and has been interpreted to be in trees. 883 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,800 However, they've also compared it to being a giant ground 884 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:14,960 sloth. Yeah, that. 885 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:16,280 Kind of sloth. Yeah. 886 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,160 So I think that is needs to be considered. 887 00:46:19,240 --> 00:46:22,560 Yeah, interesting. Just like giant ground sloths 888 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,960 were also interacting with trees quite a bit as well. 889 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:26,400 Because they're still eating these things. 890 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,840 They still needed those crazy claws to be able to reach those 891 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,480 branches. But I will also say that then I 892 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,600 was like, well, is this as big as a giant ground sloth? 893 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,480 No, giant ground sloths are way fucking bigger than this. 894 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,760 We're talking the biggest. Yeah, the biggest of them. 895 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,240 So maybe RKO Indris was doing some shit in the trees. 896 00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:46,520 Maybe it was a giant ground sloth style. 897 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:50,040 Maybe it's a little bit of both. Maybe actually know maybe about 898 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:51,840 it. It was obviously delicious. 899 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,360 Lemurs fucking. Wild. 900 00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:00,560 Thank you for listening. 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