1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,320 If you work in TV and you're wondering how the hell you 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:08,320 actually make money in this new creator LED economy, listen up. 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,320 This year Telecast is launching 2 major ways to level up your 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,160 digital first strategy. First the Telecast Digital Boot 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:22,160 Camp 4 intensive training days in Central London from the 26th 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,880 to the 31st of March for producers, executives and 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,960 development teams who want to understand social video, 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,880 platform behaviour, monetization formats, talent economics and 9 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,360 what it really takes to build IP in the digital first world. 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,280 This is hands on, practical, led by digital first experts and 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,400 build for people who need answers now. 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,720 Find out more at courses.telecast.com. 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,760 And then there's a second edition of How to Make Money in 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,600 Digital, a one day industry summit bringing together the 15 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:01,560 sharpest minds in social video, video, podcasting, IP, branded 16 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,200 content and multi platform digital publishing. 17 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,440 Case studies, studios, creators, platforms, the people shaping 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,160 where this business is going. Next is on April the 21st at 30 19 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,120 Houston Square in London. Get tickets at how to dot 20 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,920 telecast.com. And here's the key thing, if you 21 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,480 book a place on the Telecast Digital Boot Camp, you get free 22 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,520 access to the How to make Money in digital event day worth up to 23 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,760 £350. Training and front row insight. 24 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,960 2 powerful experiences, 1 clear goal helping you thrive in the 25 00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:41,640 digital first production economy. 26 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:48,680 Check out courses.telecast.com and how to dot telecast.com or 27 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,080 click the links in the episode description. 28 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,760 Get ahead in digital in 26 with the telecast digital boot camp 29 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:57,960 and how to make money in digital. 30 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:09,699 We'll see you there. Hi, I'm Justin Crosby and 31 00:02:09,699 --> 00:02:13,640 welcome to telecast. This episode was recorded live 32 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:17,600 at How to Make Money in Digital in London last year, a room full 33 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,800 of producers, founders and commissioners grappling with the 34 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,280 same question. How do you actually build 35 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,200 sustainable businesses in the digital first world? 36 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:30,280 Across the day, The Drop editor Andy Fry spoke to people who 37 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:31,920 aren't theorizing about this shift. 38 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,600 They're already doing it. From Sam Barcroft on Building 39 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,920 digital companies with an exit in mind to Spirit Studios, Matt 40 00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:42,880 Campion on why treating digital as a side hustle is the biggest 41 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,200 mistake producers can make. You'll also hear from Quinta 42 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,600 Studios, Garrett Kemming on scaling documentary audiences 43 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,960 globally, Hurst, Sam Pearson on commissioning digital first true 44 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,080 crime and history, Mt VS Amy Parker Williams on brand LED 45 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,480 Social Originals and Ben Doyle from After Party Studios and why 46 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:05,080 talent first thinking changes everything. 47 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,720 What links all of these conversations is a very clear 48 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,760 message. Digital isn't a bolt on anymore, 49 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,800 it's where the audiences are, where businesses are being 50 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,840 built, and where producers have to get much sharper about IP 51 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,040 monetization and ownership. If you're trying to work out how 52 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,080 to make that transition or how to do it better, this episode is 53 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,760 a really good place to start. Hope you enjoy the show. 54 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,640 Hi, my name is Andy Fry. I'm here at the telecast How to 55 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:36,760 make money in Digital event with Sam Barcroft, founder of 56 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,440 Creative Ill and prior to that, Barcroft TV. 57 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,360 Sam, lovely to see you. You kicked off the day for us 58 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,600 with a really interesting session about your experiences. 59 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,440 Can you kind of summarize the key messages you were trying to 60 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,520 get across in that? So thanks. 61 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,760 Nice to see you, Andy. I suppose the key message I was 62 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,920 trying to get across was that if you're an entrepreneur in the 63 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,400 digital video space, you've really got to think about your 64 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,000 end game, right the way through building your business. 65 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,040 So if you don't know where you want to get to, you're going to 66 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,000 end up going down lots of different dead ends and at bad 67 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,320 places. So it's really about focusing on 68 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,520 the outcome that you want to build from your endeavors in the 69 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,360 digital video space. And so my talk was about how to 70 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,079 sell your company because in the end, I think most digital video 71 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,960 entrepreneurs get so long in the tooth quickly that often they 72 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,200 want to sell their business. And so it's really trying to 73 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,760 help people to understand how that the five steps towards 74 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,320 selling your digital business. Yeah, your five steps were 75 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,520 really interesting because they kind of broke into some creative 76 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,840 messaging and some commercial messaging and, and this idea of 77 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:41,680 your, your superpower and, and, and the importance of going 78 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,760 after a niche, which I guess that's kind of a slightly 79 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,800 different story to what it would have been when you started out, 80 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,320 wouldn't it? But tell us about why it's 81 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,000 important to go after a niche. Well, basically the digital 82 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:55,080 video ecosystem has exploded to the point that there's 500 hours 83 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,720 of TV put up onto YouTube every minute of the day. 84 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,080 And so to find audiences, you can't try and compete with the 85 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:02,920 incumbent big entertainment brands. 86 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:04,960 You really have to build a community now. 87 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,360 And actually, it's much easier to build a small, highly engaged 88 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,720 community right now across these platforms and is to reach 89 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,520 millions of people every day, especially when you're starting 90 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:17,120 and you actually build a better community because they're 91 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,520 willing to spend money with you rather than just to watch the 92 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,720 video. So I think it makes much more 93 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,720 sense for people to narrow down to one thing that they think 94 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,440 it's an unmet need on a platform and to really try and explode 95 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,600 into an unmet need to actually solve a real problem online. 96 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,320 And it sounded like that unmet need, if it's a passion, if it's 97 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,160 your fairy tale as you put it, that's even stronger, isn't it? 98 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,320 Because that I guess you come across as more authentic. 99 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,680 Yeah, you're definitely going to shine if you're talking about 100 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,680 something you love. You're also going to have much 101 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,760 deeper knowledge, which means your videos aren't going to run 102 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,880 out of steam. And thirdly, people can just 103 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,320 tell if they you're trying to build a community, they'll know 104 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:53,880 whether you're one of them or not. 105 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,200 And so if you go deep into those spaces, also building on YouTube 106 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,920 and digital takes time these days. 107 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:01,360 So you have to be able to stick with it. 108 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,560 That's literally the number one rule is stick with it. 109 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,840 And if you love something, you're much more likely to stick 110 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:08,080 with it than if it's something that you're not that bothered 111 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,080 about. Another of your interesting 112 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,520 points is about firing yourself. And I suppose that that got into 113 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,440 the into the the thorny issue of of selling the company you've 114 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,560 built it, it's time to sell it. So explain the fire yourself 115 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:21,560 concept. So. 116 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,920 I think if you're building a business that is fit to sell, 117 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,400 you can't be a bottleneck within that business as an individual, 118 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,400 within that team or within that process. 119 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,320 So I always encourage people to figure out how they can build 120 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,880 long lasting systems and processes so that if you pull 121 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,560 them out of it, pull the founder out of the business because the 122 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,320 business still does really well. So after a certain amount of 123 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:43,880 time, you need a succession plan. 124 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,640 You need to build a business around systems and procedures 125 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,920 and ways of doing things, rather than just an individual bit of 126 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,800 talent OR hard work. OK, so now Creativille. 127 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,000 Tell us a little bit about what Creativille is for people who 128 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,960 don't know. So Creativille is a small 129 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,000 business that is run by me that exists to help business leaders 130 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,960 in the media space figure out their unique strategy. 131 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:08,440 So I work one-on-one with business leaders and they're 132 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,520 sometimes they're leadership teams to figure out exactly how 133 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,080 they can get fantastic success in the digital world. 134 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,080 And it's really fascinating. I find it brilliant. 135 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,240 I work really well with people who are trying to to figure out 136 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,480 some really tricky problems. It keeps me excited because no 137 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,040 problem, no two companies are the same and problems can feel 138 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,560 very big, but when you share them they can then feel quite 139 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,480 manageable. So I love to help people 140 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,040 transform from being bogged down by 1,000,001 different 141 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,280 challenges into having a really clear plan about how they're 142 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,040 going to achieve their own objectives. 143 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,520 And coaching people through that over a number of sessions is 144 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,160 something that I love and that often brings really fantastic 145 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,280 results for those people. So, so finally, I know you had 146 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,720 to run away for some of the day to deliver a module. 147 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,360 Did you manage to come back and see some stuff towards the end 148 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,240 of the day and and if so, any particular highlights for you? 149 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,720 So massive highlight for me was watching Tom Gosselin from 150 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,480 Strong Watch Studios. Big fan of Tom's. 151 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,520 His decks are something to behold. 152 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,360 You know, I can see why they win a lot of business because his 153 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,280 sales presentation was off the charts. 154 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,320 But also he's a brilliant thinker, Tom. 155 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,200 He really understands models and he understands how to articulate 156 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,960 these different ways of working. And his work on whether we need 157 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,960 development producers anymore just was fascinating to me. 158 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,560 The way that strong watch give one person responsibility for 159 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,799 the idea for a show, developing it, pitching it, and then making 160 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:38,280 it and delivering it and even directing it on the day and then 161 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,159 worrying about the distribution. That is a really, really 162 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:44,120 brilliant new kind of fully verticalized model. 163 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,160 But I think it's something we all need to think about, you 164 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,880 know, is that an optimum way of making premium shows for YouTube 165 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,040 in a really sensible, scalable model? 166 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,920 I thought that was genius, yeah. Yeah. 167 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,880 And I loved what you had to say about iteration, about some of 168 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,080 the things they learned during the course of that process, the 169 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,200 way they changed their content. Yeah, I mean, like that is the 170 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,440 classic test and learn methodology. 171 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,840 You know, you're getting all this data within seconds of 172 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,320 uploading a video. You can see what's working and 173 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,520 what isn't. And their producers actually 174 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,560 having the responsibility of not just coming up with the idea for 175 00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:17,280 the show, but actually having to do those tweaks in the 176 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,880 distribution and delivery. I think that's something that a 177 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,120 lot of people could scale from and learn from. 178 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,880 It might be a model that's adopted, I would imagine by 179 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,760 another set of studios as well as from Watch. 180 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,280 Brilliant Sam, lovely to talk to you and thanks for your time. 181 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:31,320 Thanks, Andy. Take care. 182 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,160 I'm with Garrett Kemming of Well, the founder and managing 183 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,160 director of Quintus Studios, who's been to a lot of our 184 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,760 events, been very supportive of the events over the years. 185 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,960 Tell us a bit about Quintus. Tell us why your company, which 186 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,200 started out in more traditional media, is interested in this 187 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,840 digital first base. Well, I mean we are meanwhile 188 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,480 one of the biggest independent documentary channel networks on 189 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,200 YouTube, Facebook and Snapchat. And this is just our home turf. 190 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,040 I would say meanwhile after TV, we did a very successful, you 191 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,160 know, career as a company in TV. But then we saw the opportunity 192 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:12,160 to pivot into digital at a very early stage and we we saw a 193 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:13,920 market that was nascent, but that. 194 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,400 Where we could grow. With the market that was very 195 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,600 interesting and actually events like today and actually the 196 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,920 market today shows us that we did the right move. 197 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,240 I was going to ask you that, is it your sense of the market is 198 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,960 now catching up with your vision that you're beginning to see 199 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,600 that hybridization that we've talked talked about for years? 200 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,640 Absolutely. I mean, when we started, people 201 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,200 and content owners were laughing at us when we asked them for 202 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,240 content. But today, I mean, we saw that 203 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,880 YouTube is the biggest TV platform in the world, right? 204 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,560 As I said. So we're ATV broadcaster on 205 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:47,400 YouTube. So to say, just briefly, give us 206 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,080 a sense of the kind of programming you do. 207 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,600 So if people wanted to know what sort of content you're you're 208 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,000 focusing on, what would you pick out? 209 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,600 Well, everything that is unscripted content is our home 210 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,840 turf from business related to nature to history to ancient 211 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,200 history to broad science and engineering. 212 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:09,440 Everything that is informative content that comes from TV or is 213 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:14,680 a targeting a very, let's say, digital audience is what we're 214 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:17,080 doing. One question I've been thinking 215 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,920 about during the course of the day, how, how, how much have you 216 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,360 been able to take your content out into different languages? 217 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,040 Are there opportunities now for it to be more than English 218 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,440 speaking for you to use maybe AI tools or other kinds of tools to 219 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,560 to make it bespoke for different markets? 220 00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:33,080 Yeah, we're working in 4 languages mainly, which is 221 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,880 English, German, French and Spanish. 222 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,960 Our problem was that our, our content is like on a very high 223 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,280 quality and our audience was expecting very high quality 224 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,000 dubbing. So languages. 225 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,440 So we couldn't turn into AI for a long time. 226 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,480 But for the last, let's say 12 months, let's say 18 months, a 227 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:57,680 hybrid model of, you know, AI with, with humans behind it that 228 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,120 works meanwhile makes it a lot more, a lot more easy. 229 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,400 Brilliant. OK, so you've been here all day. 230 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,680 Any particular highlights, any sessions that you particularly 231 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,120 enjoyed or or any messages that came through that you thought 232 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,920 were interesting? Good, good question. 233 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,120 I mean there, there was a lot of education. 234 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,120 It felt like there was a lot of education for people that want 235 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,200 to get into that business and we are in this business. 236 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,360 So there was not so much new stuff. 237 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,440 But I mean, being out there with all these creative people in the 238 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,480 industry is always amazing because you always get back with 239 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:31,520 510 great ideas and, and inspirations of what how you can 240 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,040 pivot your or projects that you can do or how you can pivot your 241 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,720 your business. Well, I mean, five of them or 242 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,840 five of them always turn out to be bullshit after you sleep a 243 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,560 night. Over it, but a lot. 244 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:45,040 Of them are really good and it's always good to connect. 245 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,600 But I think one really interesting thing is this idea 246 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,200 of revenue diversification. So we've had people today 247 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,840 selling their photos, launching auction platforms, all kinds of 248 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,280 different ways of taking your community and and making 249 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,440 revenue. Is that something that from your 250 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,920 perspective, from your business model that you might be able to 251 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:03,640 do as well? I mean, can you see yourself 252 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,840 doing that going into different kind of areas that may be a non 253 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,440 traditional? Yeah, definitely we're working 254 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,840 on this very much because so you know working with TV content 255 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,960 mainly and and especially because we work in on a global 256 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:23,280 territory or let's say in global territories, many of them are 257 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,400 non host driven. So that means we don't have a 258 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,280 face attached to that. So that means it's a very much 259 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,920 ATV business. So content 1st and that makes 260 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,840 the money when it comes to brand partnerships, products behind 261 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,880 this that is very reliant on having a face attached to it, 262 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,560 which we don't have. But we pivot into this to 263 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:45,480 diversify our revenue streams. That is a very important thing 264 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,200 in digitally, definitely. Brilliant Garrett, Well lovely 265 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,560 to talk to you and hopefully see you at the Digital Concept Forum 266 00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:52,960 later in the year. Certainly. 267 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:58,980 Thanks a lot. I'm here with Matt Campion, Co 268 00:13:58,980 --> 00:14:00,920 founder of Spirit Studios. Matt, lovely to be with you. 269 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,480 You've just come off the stage, given us a really interesting 270 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,400 presentation. Can you distill it for us? 271 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,440 Tell us what you're attempting to get across in that piece. 272 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,480 Yeah. Well, what I was trying to do 273 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,160 was get across the fact that I think it's time that people need 274 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,840 to move quickly and move into digital. 275 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,600 They need to be able to create a multi platform business if 276 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,000 they're going to survive. You know, I think we can only 277 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,080 see the trends, things like the BBC this week announcing that 278 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,680 they've, they're killing off 150 million of their budget. 279 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,800 We're only going to see that times get more and more 280 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,960 difficult. And, and I think, you know, 281 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,880 whilst we all want to continue creating Commission content, 282 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,320 because that's how, that's what we sort of we've been, we've 283 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,600 been brought up to do, actually, we've got to move into a new 284 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,520 world where we become the commissioner of the broadcast, 285 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,560 of the producer ourselves and find this new way of working. 286 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,560 You guys are spirit. You've been doing that for 10 287 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:47,880 years. It's very much been part of your 288 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,160 modus operandi. If you had to give advice to 289 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,360 people who are a bit nervous about it or haven't really 290 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,640 started the journey, what is the key to being able to make that 291 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,720 transition? Do you know I got asked this 292 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,040 question so many times. You've got to treat it like a 293 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,560 side hustle. I think the way you're going to 294 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,480 think like a creator. I think we've always been like 295 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:06,880 that, you know, right from the get go. 296 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,120 You've got to be entrepreneurial and you've got to. 297 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,960 You've got to just get going. You can't. 298 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,040 You know, whether it's money, whatever is holding you back, 299 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:17,080 stop it. Just do it. 300 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,040 Screw it, let's do it. It's my motto. 301 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:21,440 It was interesting. You showed us a really 302 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,240 interesting example of a mistake you made. 303 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,720 You know the 20 question thing. Everyone today has talked about 304 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,080 mistakes, but mistakes shouldn't be seen as mistakes, should 305 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:29,760 they? They should be seen as test and 306 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,480 learn. 100% I, you know, I'm, I mean, I'm, I suppose I love self 307 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,080 development, but it's just you're failing forwards. 308 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,440 I know that's a cliche, but you really are like I, I don't, you 309 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,760 know the word fail. We use it to create drama in 310 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,240 what we're talking about. But really it's a learning 311 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,680 curve. It's the next notch on your way 312 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,360 up and it's a hurdle. Once you've got over that 313 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,120 hurdle, you know you'll, you'll get over it. 314 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,360 I think going back to your last question, people give up too 315 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:55,960 easily. You can't give up. 316 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,640 This is something that once you start, you've got to keep the 317 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,280 machine going. Brilliant. 318 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,960 Last question, you talked about The Lion Whisperer. 319 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,600 Give us a sense of why the Lion Whisperer has worked. 320 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,160 What is it the core of that that's really, you know, 321 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,640 interested audiences? The Lion Whisperer, just two 322 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,720 things that I think work for for for the brand. 323 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,560 One is its mission and purpose. I think it connects with people. 324 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,200 It's on a mission to save the plight of lions. 325 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,080 When we first started this, there's only 20,000 lions left 326 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,080 in the world. That's now increased population 327 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:29,440 has increased. The numbers are going the other 328 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,560 way. But again, climate change is now 329 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,720 something that we weren't facing 10 years ago on the channel. 330 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,680 And, and now there's there's, you know, there's stats out 331 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,680 there that say that lions could be extinct by 2050. 332 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:46,200 The other thing I would say is that we're delivering Natural 333 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,200 History in a way that you don't see anywhere else. 334 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,200 We're doing it up close and personal. 335 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,760 We're even putting lions go pros and things on the lions and and 336 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,800 we're doing things like allowing the viewer to go on a on a hunt 337 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,680 and a kill with them. You know, it's, it's we're, 338 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,440 we're getting, we're using technology and kit to, to get to 339 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:06,839 places that I've never been seen before. 340 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,720 Actually, just to extrapolate from that, your session was 341 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,920 about building a multi platform powerhouse and I guess that that 342 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,480 notion of purpose is something you've taken into your other 343 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,839 work, isn't it? Absolutely. 344 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,440 The tagline of Spirit is that we don't just create content, we 345 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,680 create content with Spirit. You know, we're about impacting 346 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,280 life for the better, inspiring, entertaining. 347 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,920 We also have our own side hustle, which is a mental health 348 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:37,680 platform called I Am Whole. And I Am Whole is about using 349 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,280 pop culture in a digital world. To. 350 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,800 Challenge the stigma surrounding mental health and to make a 351 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,120 difference in the world. But we do it through comedy, we 352 00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:48,360 do it through music concerts, we do it through documentary. 353 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:52,280 You know, I think as a business, we're an entertainment business. 354 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,640 So let's entertain people. But also, I think I think it's 355 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,240 more powerful when you've got entertainment with purpose. 356 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:02,000 Brilliant Matt Campion, Spirit Studios, thank you for your 357 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,000 time. Thank you, lady. 358 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,120 I'm here with Sam Pearson from Hearst Networks. 359 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,280 Emya. Sam, tell us a little bit more 360 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,560 about your role at Hearst. So my role at Hearst Networks is 361 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,760 quite multifaceted. So I I'm the head of short form 362 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,440 commissioning within the programming team, but I also sit 363 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,520 within the kind of marketing team just like from a little bit 364 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,280 kind of looking at the creative production, paid media, the 365 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,280 organic social media production, basically anything that Hurst 366 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,080 Networks does, there's production focused on 367 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,920 commissioning from a digital first perspective. 368 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,680 Social media first has my fingerprints on it. 369 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,720 Brilliant. So you've just come off a really 370 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,200 interesting session with a bunch of digital commissioners. 371 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,200 If you had to provide a bit more color in terms of shows you've 372 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,520 commissioned, projects you've worked on, could you pick out a 373 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,400 couple of examples for us? Absolutely, yeah. 374 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,360 I mean, so one that isn't out yet, but it's coming up called 375 00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:56,160 History Crush, I'm really excited about. 376 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,520 So that is with a TikTok and Instagram creator called Kate 377 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,600 Kennedy. She's called the History gossip 378 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,640 on online. She has a really kind of fresh, 379 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,160 exciting new take on history communication. 380 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,960 Very, very, very different. I am not going to try and 381 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,680 imitate it because I'll do it very, very poor justice. 382 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,280 I can only kind of recommend that you go and find her and 383 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,520 look at it yourself. But she's she's got this. 384 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,120 She comes at it from a historical perspective. 385 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,520 She's got all of the academic qualifications, but it's, you 386 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,200 know, it's coming at it, you know, from a comedic 387 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,760 perspective, entertainment focused, but it gives you that 388 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,880 real kind of like historical insight at the same time. 389 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,840 I'm really excited about that one that's coming out at the end 390 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,960 of May, one that we've just done that, which come out of the end 391 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,600 of last year called Unbreakable survivor stories. 392 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,360 Real kind of like value proposition for me in terms of 393 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:44,320 kind of getting unheard, marginalized, misunderstood 394 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,520 stories out to a true crime audience. 395 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,480 Really, really challenging. Watch and listen it when I was 396 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,240 in mid form series and as a audio podcast. 397 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,360 That one for me is incredibly powerful because it's doing a 398 00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:00,760 job which really represents to me why true crime is important 399 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,680 as a genre. It's not just about 400 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,600 entertainment, which is obviously what the TV industry 401 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,560 is kind of like as heart from a base perspective is what it's 402 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,240 all about. Unbreakable does the value 403 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,320 proposition as well and really kind of demonstrates why we 404 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,760 should be doing things like true crime and why we should be 405 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,360 commissioning and producing in this space to really make sure 406 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:22,160 that the contributors that we got in on that series can really 407 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,920 kind of make sure they're sharing their sharing their 408 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,200 stories. I mean, in there we had a female 409 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,360 genital mutilation survivor talking about their experiences 410 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:31,880 and their roads to recovery afterwards. 411 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:36,600 We had a survivor of, of, of domestic abuse, survivor of, of 412 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,320 gangland violence. Real kind of like hard hitting, 413 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,560 challenging conversations. And and that kind of feeds and 414 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,280 you were talking about your, your approach to true crime. 415 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,560 It's about victim centric Victim Support kind of stories, isn't 416 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:49,280 it? For sure. 417 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:54,400 I mean as a as a brand linear space digital focus, we are very 418 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,000 victim centric. We're very sensitive in our 419 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,160 approach. We always get incredibly 420 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,200 rewarding feedback from the contributors and the people that 421 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,400 we work with, the production companies we work with about how 422 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,240 we demonstrate and represent our stories. 423 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,280 And that is kind of fundamental and at the heart of our brand 424 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,600 and how we want to kind of position ourselves across all 425 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,240 frontiers that we kind of go into. 426 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,400 And that is exactly the same in the digital space as well. 427 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,800 What we have as an opportunity within the social media space is 428 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,920 a community focused opportunity where we can think about like 429 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,920 what are TikTok creators, podcasters doing in from a 430 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,400 community perspective? And that is, you know, tonally, 431 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,400 thematically challenging, you know, norms of like how you can 432 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,800 be funny alongside talking about some really kind of sensitive 433 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,640 and challenging cases, how you can kind of be light hearted, 434 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,320 have different styles of conversations. 435 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,920 For us, that's a really interesting opportunity and a 436 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,720 really interesting challenge in terms of how we can kind of go 437 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,400 into some of those kind of conversations and create some 438 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,800 productions and commissions that sit within that space. 439 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,600 For us, what we don't want to be doing is creating stuff that 440 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,040 goes too far, pushes too far beyond the borders. 441 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,120 But what we want to do is really kind of test the areas and the 442 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,800 Venn diagram of what traditional true crime looks like from ATV 443 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,680 broadcaster, but stays true to our kind of principles. 444 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,840 So so outside history and true crime, are there any other sweet 445 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,720 spots, particularly genres you're interested in? 446 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,960 You want to get ahead in digital first content? 447 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,760 The Drop is the go to newsletter for industry professionals, 448 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,880 delivering insider news, trends and insights straight to your 449 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,320 inbox. Navigate 450 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:44,880 thefastchanginglandscapeofdigitalfirstproductiondistributionandmonetizationsignupnowforfree@dropmedia.co.uk and stay informed with The Drop. 451 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,920 Well, I mean, they are our sweet spots. 452 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,040 They are our genres. I would say true crime is a 453 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,520 little bit harder to kind of get beyond in terms of a, in terms 454 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,840 of a genre because it is we are essentially a little bit more 455 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,440 kind of traditional in terms of our mindset. 456 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,600 Although the approach and the storytelling approach can be a 457 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,600 little bit more kind of thematically different to our 458 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:08,920 kind of standard approach in linear. 459 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,520 I think history is the one that we can be a little more playful 460 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:16,520 with because essentially every story has an element of history 461 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,720 has the past in like ingrained within it. 462 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,120 And I think for us, it's much more interesting to kind of look 463 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:25,600 at how we can tell interesting historical stories or stories 464 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,040 about the past in a very different way than we maybe 465 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,440 normally would do on a say a more mainstream history 466 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,320 broadcaster on mainstream History Channel. 467 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,560 And so for us that might be thinking about how like a comedy 468 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,720 and broadcaster or channel would do do it, or looking at like 469 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,720 shiny floor or panel show formats, or it might be or 470 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,040 investigative documentary style approaches or reality 471 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:50,880 approaches. And so for us, it's kind of 472 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,960 really testing the the boundaries from a genre 473 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,520 perspective, how you can tell historical stories. 474 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,880 That to me is really, really interesting because it could be 475 00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,960 so much more playful. Brilliant. 476 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,840 Sam. Final question, in terms of how 477 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,760 a producer approaches you, what what do you want them to do when 478 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,760 they come to you? I want them to come with very 479 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,440 top line. I don't want like loads of, you 480 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,360 know, reams of documentation. I don't want like, you know, 481 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:17,920 multi page treatments. I don't want anyone to feel like 482 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,000 they're wasting their time. If you know, we get to a quick 483 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,960 no, I really want like, you know, straight to the kind of 484 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,840 the core of the idea. Could be a paragraph, could be 485 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,400 A1 pager. I want the hook first. 486 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,960 But that's to me is the kind of core principle we've got to 487 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,320 start with that it's not a contract that we're signing on 488 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,400 that we don't need to deliver, that we've got to read room for 489 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,160 surprise when we get to production and that kind of 490 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,840 thing. But for me, it's really about 491 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,240 that hook, like how are we going to be doing something that's 492 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,240 like new, interesting, innovative from a formal 493 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,680 perspective, going to be new and interesting in terms of the 494 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,480 talent that we work with and how we develop new talent. 495 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,320 But it's going to start with that hook. 496 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,480 Like, what is that kind of new and interesting kind of rooting 497 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:52,800 for us? Brilliant. 498 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,840 Sam Pearson, lovely to speak to you and thanks for coming to the 499 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:55,360 event. Lovely. 500 00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:00,000 To speak to you guys. I'm here with Amy Parker 501 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,160 Williams from MTV. Amy, lovely to meet you. 502 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,520 Can you tell us a little bit about what you do at MTV? 503 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,680 Yes. So I am the director of 504 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,520 commissioning. So I guess it's my job to curate 505 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,880 and create compelling original content and build fantastic 506 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,640 experiences across all of our social platforms. 507 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,160 I also manage our in house production team made-up made-up 508 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,960 of talented super, super talented producers, editors, 509 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,560 production staff and some of our originals over the last couple 510 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,480 of years have been made by them. Brilliant. 511 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,280 So, so colour the story for us a little bit. 512 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,600 Tell us, tell us what kind of stuff you've commissioned. 513 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,440 Yes. So a couple of things. 514 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,520 MTV Faces, which is our mental health podcast series, which 515 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,440 tackles timely, topical taboo issues. 516 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,080 The first series we explored grief with Ashley Kane. 517 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,080 Second series which came out last year was on ADHD with 518 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,080 Jordan Stevens as the host and we've got a new one coming out 519 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,640 fairly soon. Brilliant. 520 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,440 So, so expanded a little bit for us. 521 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,400 You did a really good job in the session of telling us what 522 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:54,600 you're looking for. What what? 523 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,000 What is your sweet spot? Sweet spot is Brant Helen at the 524 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,400 helm of societal issues. So what, you know, important 525 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,280 conversations need to be discussed that aren't being 526 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:04,920 discussed enough in the mainstream media. 527 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,440 That's what we want to do. And how do you merge that with 528 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,200 Paramount's iconic IP? So if you had to give a little 529 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,480 bit of guidance to producers about how to approach you, the 530 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,400 way to get to you, what would you suggest? 531 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,280 Drop me a line and bring me on at the earliest stage, I would 532 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,600 say, just to make sure that it has MTV and Comedy Central in 533 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:28,920 mind from Inception. I'm here with Ben Doyle, AKA 534 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,760 Rubber Duck, and you've just finished the session talking 535 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,760 about your experiences in the business. 536 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,200 Tell us a little bit about the themes, the key themes that you 537 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,880 were talking about. Yeah, so after by Studios I 538 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,480 found it with a YouTuber. So all of my work I've done over 539 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,840 the last decade has featured talent in some way, shape or 540 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,680 form. And so it's just a conversation 541 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,000 really about how that completely changes the dynamic of how you 542 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,160 approach creative because you have to write the creative with 543 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,560 the talent in mind. It's not come up with the idea, 544 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,360 drop some talent in, it has to be come up with an idea around 545 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:58,560 the talent. So the conversation really was 546 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,400 about how do we approach that? How do we write ideas? 547 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,440 How do we make our shoots perfect for what the talent are 548 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,880 used to receiving and make content that sits really well on 549 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,520 the platform and doesn't feel like coming onto a platform that 550 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,960 we don't belong on? Do you do you think sometimes 551 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,840 traditional producers make a mistake of trying to impose 552 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,520 ideas on the talent rather than letting the talent flow a little 553 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,760 bit? I think that I think, I think 554 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,600 that basically the, the model has never changed on YouTube 555 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,720 really since day one. We're just having to go around 556 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,640 it. It's always been about someone 557 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,000 having some fun and that being recorded and if feeling too 558 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,560 structured suffocates it. And that's always been the truth 559 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,040 since back in the day. Like the beauty of YouTube is 560 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,200 that it has to be free flow and it has to be whatever's going on 561 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,520 ideas reacting to it constantly. And that's why the brain of a 562 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,360 YouTube is mad because they are constantly just reacting to 563 00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:45,360 what's going on in front of them. 564 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,480 And I think the job of a traditional broadcast to come 565 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,720 into the space is to be like, how do we make that scenario 566 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,120 possible? How do we make it so that it's 567 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:53,400 not? Here's an auto queue and a 568 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,200 script, but here's the beats, here's what we're trying to hit, 569 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,240 here's what we're trying to get across and be yourself because 570 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,200 ultimately, that's what the audience are buying into. 571 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,640 After Party has been around probably around 10 years, but 572 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,200 you've had a particularly good two or three years. 573 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,000 You've really kind of grown in stature and and and recognition. 574 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,680 Tell us about what you've been doing recently as a studio to 575 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,600 push yourselves forward. Yeah, I think that we've been 576 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,480 going, We've been going since 2016. 577 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,320 And I think that is interesting seeing the industry grow up 578 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,440 through that time. Like in the early days that we 579 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,400 were going into meetings, people didn't really understand this 580 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,360 space. And I think so we've grown with 581 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:27,520 everyone and I think that the industry is has turned its 582 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,520 attention onto the space that we're in. 583 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,240 For us, the focus is always how do we make the best content that 584 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,360 the audience want to watch? Like that is the thing that goes 585 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:37,280 through our mind has always been that is how do we make something 586 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,360 that the platform's going to receive well, the audience is 587 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:40,960 going to receive well and keep iterating. 588 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,320 I think it's fine to make a mistake. 589 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,600 Go and make something can be like, oh, that episode didn't do 590 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,880 as well as the last one. The beauty of digital is that 591 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,920 you can go and change it. We can go and take a sudden 592 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,160 right turn and something can be like, let's bring in some new 593 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,120 talent, let's change the format slightly. 594 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,760 And so I guess I've just seen the industry accept it more and 595 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,480 more money's come into that part of the, the world and therefore 596 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,360 better and bigger stuff is getting made and people are more 597 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:04,680 focused on it. It was not an afterthought 598 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,640 anymore. It's not like let's make this TV 599 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,360 show and then make some support and whatever the social team, 600 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,080 it's very much like, how do we make something that is serving 601 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,560 this audience where they are and with what they want to receive? 602 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,360 Because the audience are hungry for content, like they're, 603 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,760 they're watching this stuff for hours and hours and hours. 604 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,440 So it would be criminal to like miss the opportunity of not 605 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,480 feeding that desire from from them. 606 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,320 Yeah. I think one of the key themes of 607 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,960 today's event, this kind of idea of how to make money in digital 608 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,520 is of people who've perhaps been working at massive TV budgets or 609 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,840 bigger TV budgets, working at how to be cost effective and 610 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,880 work in this world. If you had to kind of give some 611 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,360 advice on how you still create premium content, compelling 612 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,560 content at a different budget level and be successful, what 613 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,480 would you say to people? I say that the if you want to 614 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,200 make premium content but not completely missed the mark on it 615 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,000 is that you have to think about what the audience are looking 616 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,760 for, which is to be entertained and not make crazy set designs 617 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,640 that they don't care about. They don't want to see what we 618 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,800 see on Saturday night TV level sets because they are, this is 619 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,640 structured, this is fabricated. So it's playing within that. 620 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,720 It's being like, OK, I don't need to do a crazy set design. 621 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,760 I actually need to focus more on my money and time and effort on 622 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,800 these certain things that are about the research upfront and 623 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,000 making sure that the episode is great or that interview series 624 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,480 is great or that the entertainment value is there and 625 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,520 that we're understanding. You'll get so much more value 626 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,880 out of understanding the law around it and the memes and the 627 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,120 culture. That's where the value is. 628 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,840 They don't care about whether it's shot on a big shiny floor 629 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,200 studio or crazy cinematic production. 630 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,840 They care about am I watching something that feels like, like 631 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,760 that person is on the screen has made it or been a part of it. 632 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,400 And so I think when it comes to budgets, like we've never, we've 633 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:43,760 never seen those TV budgets, right? 634 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,040 We've never been dealing in the millions. 635 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,200 It's always hundreds of thousands. 636 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,960 And so it's about looking at what we've got and being like, 637 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,480 let's not shoot for Saturday night TV, shiny floor and 638 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,320 completely miss it. And also we're not, we're 639 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,040 missing the UGC side. We're kind of neither is it. 640 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,920 You need to find the sweet spot and then become known for it and 641 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,600 just double down and be like, this is our style and this is 642 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,760 and keep doing the same thing. I think audiences are super 643 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,640 sensitive as well to complete change. 644 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,640 So if you've got a channel that one minute is putting out super 645 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,240 glossy stuff and then suddenly goes like really homemade that 646 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,880 and then back to glossy, that's confusing for the audience. 647 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,200 I think you need to pick This is the world we're in and run. 648 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,160 With it final question. So, so if you are able to talk 649 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,640 about it, what are you working on right now? 650 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,560 What's your day? What's happening for your 651 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,640 day-to-day right now? So exciting projects right now, 652 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,280 we're in the middle of Season 2 of Sky Sports scenes, a series 653 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,640 to do for them. And we're talking to lots of 654 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,720 different commissioners and brands about brand entertainment 655 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:35,880 stuff. Like lots of the work is 656 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,400 definitely going in that direction. 657 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,320 Lots of people being like, how do we go and interpret our brand 658 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,120 or our platform in a different way and space and use talent to 659 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,280 make content that's going to cut through with the audience. 660 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,760 And so lots of the projects are kind of it more in that space. 661 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,160 They're not tons that I can talk about. 662 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,040 Well, my PR isn't here, so I don't know. 663 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,000 But yeah, I think like for me, the most exciting thing is that 664 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,800 I'm seeing lots more appetite for like this type of content 665 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:58,920 that the audience really want to see. 666 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,680 I think for years I would get briefs in and be like, like, 667 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,760 they don't, no one wants that. And then it'd be like trying to 668 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,040 turn that around. But now I'm seeing lots of 669 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:07,920 briefs. So I'm like, the audience do 670 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,320 want that. That's that's catering into it. 671 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:10,520 So I think that's the encouraging thing. 672 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,800 I'm seeing more and more stuff that I think the audience are 673 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,400 going to love. Ben Doyle, After Party Studios, 674 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:16,640 thanks for your time. Thank you very much. 675 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,160 You've been listening to highlights from How to Make 676 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:27,080 Money in Digital recorded live in London in 2025, and if what 677 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,200 you've heard here resonates, the good news is we're doing it all 678 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,320 again. How to Make Money in Digital 679 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,400 returns on April 21st at 30 Houston Square in London, 680 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,240 bringing together producers, platforms, studios, creators, 681 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,880 and people from right across the digital first spectrum for a 682 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,240 full day focused on the practical realities of building 683 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,040 and monetizing digital first businesses. 684 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,240 This isn't about theory or hype. It's about what's working right 685 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,080 now, what isn't, and how production companies can adapt 686 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,480 their models for a market that's moving fast. 687 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,720 Tickets and full details are available now at how to dot 688 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,600 telecast.com. That's how to dot telecast.com 689 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,480 for now. Thanks for listening to 690 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,840 Telecast. We'll see you next week and stay 691 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:14,200 safe.