1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,240 Hi, I'm Justin Crosby, and welcome to another episode of 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:06,880 Telecast. My guest this week is an old 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,960 friend of mine, and he's just straight in from LA. 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,600 He's Peter White, executive editor and Deadline. 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,040 How are you doing, Pete? Hello mate. 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,360 I'm good, I'm good. I was just thinking this. 7 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,480 We're really sort of going back a while because when you first 8 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,520 launched this, when it was in just audio form, we were doing 9 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,040 this over Zoom in the end of 2020. 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,240 That's it. And we would do sort of 15 11 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,920 minutes in from LA just after I'd moved there. 12 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:36,480 And you just started this, so it's nice to. 13 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,160 You've upgraded to sofas. You're looking like Alex Cooper 14 00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:39,800 herself. Yeah. 15 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,920 Thanks for that. Yeah, yeah. 16 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,440 And what I'm really looking forward to catching up. 17 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,320 I mean, we're going to go for a beer afterwards. 18 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,640 So we're, we're but, but this is our first proper chat that we've 19 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:57,360 had for ages. And thanks for coming on in and, 20 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,960 and, and having a chat. And you're right, I think you 21 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:06,320 know you're going because you went to LA just before pandemic, 22 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:09,280 just you were on the was it like you were the last flight out of 23 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,600 London before lockdown happened right to LA? 24 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,840 March 17th, 2020, We were the last flight out of London 25 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,680 Heathrow, the day before the OR the day of the Trump travel ban. 26 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:20,960 And yeah, stayed there ever since. 27 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:27,960 Well, we've got loads to talk about, all that change in the 28 00:01:27,960 --> 00:01:32,200 last five years, which is, you know, the, the TV industry's 29 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,000 some bits of recognisable, some bits not. 30 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,080 So you know, huge changes are happening. 31 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:43,920 So I'm going to start with this question, Is Hollywood burning 32 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,560 down right now? Well, I hope not. 33 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,080 I haven't been there for 24 hours. 34 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,400 And it does have a tendency to burn. 35 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,640 But no, I don't think it is. I think there's some, there's 36 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,080 some challenges, don't get me wrong. 37 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,920 And, and there's some things going on that aren't necessarily 38 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,040 making it particularly fruitful for the people who live and work 39 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:03,920 there. But Hollywood's always been 40 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,200 cyclical and, and people will figure this stuff out. 41 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,479 I mean, it depends what you mean by Hollywood as well. 42 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:10,560 There's a fit, you know, literal place. 43 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,400 One of the challenges at the moment is, is production in 44 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,760 Hollywood or in or around California. 45 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,080 And then there's Hollywood, the sort of greater being of, of the 46 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,360 studios of which here since we last spoke, there's been some 47 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,880 new owners and and so forth. There's still a lot of 48 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,400 consolidation that going on. But no, it's, it's, it's still a 49 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,480 pretty exciting place to to live and work. 50 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:37,720 Yeah, but but there's no getting away from the old industry is 51 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,680 you're right saying it's cyclical, but this feels more 52 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,280 fundamental. I think, you know, the changes 53 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,560 that we've seen over the, you know, since the pandemic, you 54 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,840 know, and in some cases, you know, accelerated by the 55 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,400 pandemic as well. We've seen obviously streaming 56 00:02:54,400 --> 00:03:00,040 come through and now we're seeing YouTube as being TV and, 57 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,080 you know, the, the, the whole, you know, the whole structure, 58 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,800 you know, Cape cable cutting the whole structure of the, of the 59 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,840 USTV industry is changing, right? 60 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,400 And, and you know, there's always going to be people that 61 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,840 is going to profit from that. There's always going to be 62 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,480 people that, you know, unfortunately may say that the 63 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,160 time's over in TV. But I mean, overall, do you 64 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:35,200 sense excitement in LA, in the LA industry, in TV or you know, 65 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,120 or is there a certain amount of fear? 66 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,240 Oh, I think there's there's always fear, but I think you're 67 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:40,280 right. I think there's two types of 68 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,200 people who in the industry, there's the people that that 69 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,200 everyone sees the change coming. It's those who can adapt and 70 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,520 figure it out and figure out the new world and those who are 71 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,720 still holding on to their, you know, three-part Animal Planet 72 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,840 commissions. I think that world is, is 73 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:00,520 definitely dying, if not dead, but I think a lot of the people 74 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:05,560 who are seeing, as you said, we're living in Youtubes world 75 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,080 now. We're living in this world where 76 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,560 social media is, is so important. 77 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,320 I think there's a lot of people from the old world that have 78 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,080 just adapted to that and are doing exciting new things. 79 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,720 The the thing about Hollywood is over the last few years, it's 80 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,760 sort of been run by dinosaurs and it's been run by very old 81 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,200 people, often old white men. And Hollywood is a young 82 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,200 person's game. There's some really exciting 83 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,320 things going on. I mean, just I don't cover the 84 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,720 movie business per SE, but you see what happens with Backrooms. 85 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,320 This new a 24 film. The guy was 18 when he directed 86 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,800 it and it's now on par to be a 24's biggest movie ever. 87 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,960 So you sort of need to find the youth and and yeah, he came out 88 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,240 of YouTube, He came out of 4 Chan. 89 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,080 And I think as long as the industry make sure to find those 90 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,000 types of people, they could still release theatrical movies. 91 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,400 They can still make television in a sort of quote UN quote 92 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,200 traditional form. But yeah, maybe, maybe there's 93 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,280 maybe some of the people who are worried are the people who are 94 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,680 worried that that's things have passed them by. 95 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,000 Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that has been, I 96 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,000 think the leaders of a lot of these corporations have seen the 97 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:14,280 change coming, but maybe it was inconvenient for them to make 98 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,800 potentially the change that they might have needed for the good 99 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,200 of the company rather than perhaps the good of their own 100 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,440 pension pot. Or, you know, it seems like 101 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:29,160 there's very few people in the UK and also in the US that have, 102 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,720 you know, they, they would have known that, you know, that the 103 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,080 changes were going to happen and the speed that it was happening, 104 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,200 but they didn't seem to be able to react. 105 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,440 In television, and I sort of understand why, you're 106 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,920 absolutely right. You look at the what we used to 107 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,920 think of as the cable world, which was responsible for the, 108 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,440 the vast, you know, this huge volume of, of original orders, 109 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,400 original series, which allowed producers to, to make hand, you 110 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,840 know, a lot of money. And yeah, if you're still 111 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:01,600 relying on that world, yeah, it things are over, you know, if, 112 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,240 as I said, if not dead already. But the problem is those 113 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,640 businesses still throw off a lot of money and they still throw 114 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,360 off a lot of cash. So I do understand why it's hard 115 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,720 for those companies to say, you know what, that's not our 116 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,520 business anymore. And we're just going to go 117 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,600 digital first. We're just going to go social 118 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,040 first. So I sort of see it's, it's a 119 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,680 it's an oil tanker, right? It just take it, it is very slow 120 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,480 to turn. I think it's easier for some of 121 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,200 the newer companies to be able to do that because they're they 122 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,360 have less baggage basically. And, and that's why you get some 123 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,760 of the, you know, there's always a hot new company every few 124 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,040 years. But, but when you look at the 125 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,720 studio system, yeah, you know, Warner Brothers Discovery and 126 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,120 Paramount emerging or David Ellison's buying Warner 127 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,160 Brothers. But a lot of that money still 128 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,920 comes from some of those cable networks that we hardly ever 129 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,600 talk about now, you know, the HGTVS of the world, you know, 130 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,840 the Science Channel and and Discovery Channel and, and some 131 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:55,680 of those things. So I get why it it, it can seem 132 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,840 scary to those people. But I also know that they really 133 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:01,400 do need to, you know, a lot of the traditional production 134 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:06,400 companies are starting to to make YouTube first TV shows or 135 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,400 quote UN quote, TV shows. So it depends the scale if you 136 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:14,120 are, but yeah, yeah. So who's who's thriving right 137 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,720 now in in LA, in the in the TV business? 138 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,200 I think the people who have figured out how to bring 139 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,560 production costs down, that is the number one thing you hear 140 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,000 across the board, whether that's from the movie business, from 141 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,400 the linear TV business, the streaming business. 142 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,160 The problem isn't. And some of these traditional 143 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,520 companies, it costs a lot of money to produce these shows 144 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:37,920 because this is the way they've always done it. 145 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,600 If you can find a slightly smarter way to do that now, you 146 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,120 know, a few years ago that was taking your show and making it 147 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,120 in Ireland because it was cheaper there or making your 148 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,160 sitcom in Wales, even though it's for AUS broadcaster. 149 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,040 But even that's probably going to come down now because the 150 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,440 costs are so high and the viewership is so fragmented that 151 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,520 if you aren't able to to make a show cheaper than you used to 152 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,800 be, yeah, you're you're dead. You see what these kids can now 153 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,000 make on online and, and they're they're absolutely wiping the 154 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,960 floor with the with the old people. 155 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,840 Yeah. So you met, you mentioned 156 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:13,320 Paramount and the deal for Warners, which is I think it's 157 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,520 just has it been rubber stamped in, in the, in the US? 158 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:17,640 No, it hasn't. It's not. 159 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,640 It's not complete. I mean, it's going to happen any 160 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,880 day now, really. We don't quite have a timeline. 161 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,640 But yeah, he's just sort of got to tick all of the boxes before 162 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,600 he's got the the full keys to the Kingdom. 163 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,360 Yeah, yeah. Well, I saw a piece the other 164 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,720 day which was talking about EU and there's a whole load of 165 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,720 regulation, the EU that, you know, they're going to 166 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,559 investigate it as well. So it feels like it's going to 167 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,480 rumble on for another year or two. 168 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,120 It'll rumble on. By the time it all finishes, 169 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,120 it'll probably be you know, someone else will try and buy 170 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,160 it. It tends to be, but no, it's, 171 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,120 it's funny you, you mentioned Europe and they're all of these 172 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,160 things. I think David Ellison doesn't 173 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:54,560 really care about the rest of the world. 174 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,400 I, I think, you know, there's probably a few bits of business 175 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,360 elsewhere that, you know, makes a bit of money for him. 176 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,400 That'll be nice. But he's focused on making, 177 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,600 making 30 movies a year. He's not focused on what's 178 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,480 what's happening in on the continent. 179 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:09,720 Yeah. So what? 180 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:16,080 What looking at that merger and what's going to come out at the 181 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,480 back end of that? What new company is going to 182 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,920 come out of back back of that? I mean, number one thing is, is 183 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,320 it's there's got to be huge number of redundancies. 184 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,480 I would imagine, you know, it seems to, you know, if there's 185 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,560 no merger that happens without, you know, 20% at least of staff 186 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:34,040 going. But, and you have to remember, 187 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,360 he, he only just bought Paramount and he's only still 188 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,720 going through some of the layoffs for, for Paramount. 189 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,160 And he's got to find 6 billion in savings for, for the new 190 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,040 business. Now he says he's going to do 191 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,120 that without making layoffs. I think you and I have been 192 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,680 around long enough to know that's not going to happen. 193 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,560 There will be, you know, and there of course, there, there, 194 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:57,200 there should be because there are going to be a lot of people 195 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,120 who are doing the same jobs at those two businesses. 196 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,040 But yeah, there'll be layoffs. It'll be depressing for a little 197 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,120 while until until the ship can steady. 198 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,160 Yeah, Yeah. So one of the now you're 199 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,200 executive editor now, does that mean that you still do the late 200 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,160 night shows beat or is it, have you given that to somebody else 201 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,640 now? No, I I haven't. 202 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,440 Yes, A pretty silly title really. 203 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:25,560 As Americans that want to do, what do I cover? 204 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:26,960 I mean, I cover all of television. 205 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,560 My boss, Nellie Andreva knows the scripted TV business better 206 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:32,720 than anyone else. So I realised there was no real 207 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,760 point in trying to trying to compete with her for the scoops 208 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,400 on that side of things. So I sort of, yeah, I lent into 209 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,960 late night, which is having a really strange time and, and I 210 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,040 want to come back to that in a second, do a lot of unscripted 211 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,360 cover a lot of the reality TV business and the reality TV 212 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:48,600 business. In fact, we just launched an 213 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:53,080 event in LA about a month ago called the Deadline Reality TV 214 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,160 Summit. And yes, it doesn't get quite 215 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,320 the attention that the scripted world does. 216 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,640 But when you think about some of the unscripted shows, the voice 217 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,320 is the thing that's, you know, often propping NBC up. 218 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,040 Love is Blind is one of Netflix's biggest shows. 219 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,920 Mr. Beast's Beast Games is Amazon's, you know, biggest. 220 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,360 They say it's a big unscripted show. 221 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,320 So it's probably just as big as some of their, you know, white 222 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,560 men with gun shows. So these are unscripted titles 223 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:21,760 that really prop up a lot of these places. 224 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,840 And I think unscripted is going to have a a real place when it 225 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,080 comes to YouTube. I just came from the upfronts in 226 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,120 New York and and YouTube does their annual brand cast. 227 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:34,760 And it looked like an old school TV presentation and there was 228 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,240 one or two scripted things. But you know what it was? 229 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,200 It looked a lot like cable of of the olden days. 230 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,320 It was it was unscripted formats. 231 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,440 It was documentary series. They were cheaper to make and 232 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,640 they were being, you know, 25 year olds rather than 45 year 233 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,640 olds. But I think unscripted is where 234 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,960 the initial rush in that YouTube world in, in that, you know, 235 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,720 whatever we're going to call that is is going to come from 236 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,120 and, and whether a format or two can pop out of that is what I 237 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:03,320 think people are going to be looking for. 238 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,360 Well, well, yeah, definitely. Let's come to on to talk about 239 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,880 like that in a second. But but yeah, it was really 240 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:17,360 interesting to see you launch that unscripted event and, you 241 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,800 know, it's got, I love to see, you know, companies launching 242 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,120 new events because I know what goes into that. 243 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,040 And but I thought that was a really interesting move because 244 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:31,160 obviously we've seen real screen and and nappy, you know, sadly 245 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,880 fold, but you know, which felt like, you know, a bit of a 246 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,960 bellwether for for the factual space in particular. 247 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,680 But So what was the thinking behind that? 248 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,320 Well, I've been. Pitching this event for 18 249 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,400 months it's funny, we announced our event the day that real 250 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,160 screen announced that they were no longer which I think a few 251 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:52,080 people sort of saw the correlation, but in fact I, I 252 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,000 just well, first. That was purely by chance. 253 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,400 It was purely it. Genuinely was a coincidence, but 254 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,240 I think we'd seen where things were going and honestly, I hate 255 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,640 Miami with a passion and real screen's been in Miami for the 256 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,520 last few years. So I figured if I can create an 257 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,080 event where I don't have to go to a city of crypto, then then 258 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,040 I'd be happy. But the other thing that or or 259 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,800 one of my main reasons for doing it was they used to be the case. 260 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,680 The unscripted business was was East Coast and West Coast. 261 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:21,040 It was kind of 5050 when I started writing about TV and I 262 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,280 would hazard a guess that it's probably now 80 to 90% on the 263 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,320 West Coast. A lot of those production 264 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,160 companies are based and everyone was sort of saying, well, why 265 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,680 are we flying all the way to Miami or New Orleans or all 266 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:34,080 these other places? Why don't we do something in LA? 267 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,160 We've got better access to talent. 268 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,600 We can get all of the top execs. We, you know, one of the, the 269 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,440 top things that we had at at the reality summit was we had the 270 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,400 buyers, we had the unscripted buyers for all of the major 271 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:49,840 platforms and, and broadcasters. So we had the Jeff Gaspin from 272 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,840 Netflix, Jen Levy who just got the job at Amazon, and we had 273 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:58,040 Fox and NBC and CBS and, and ABC and, and those six people were 274 00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,880 on a panel together for the first time. 275 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,560 And it's really interesting to get those decision makers 276 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:04,680 together. And I sort of figured we could 277 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:08,200 do that if we do it in LA and we had access to talent. 278 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,200 As I said, we had Andy Cohen, who ironically is an East Coast 279 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:15,640 talent but happened to be in LA and I knew that the people who 280 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,680 are going to come to that event are based in LA. 281 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,240 They don't need to spend too much time. 282 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,680 It was, it was a one day event. In fact, we're doing a spin off 283 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,200 in London next week as part of South by Southwest, which is 284 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,480 owned by PMC, which is the company that owns Deadlines. 285 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,080 So we're sort of seeing it as this brand that we can do in the 286 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,040 UK, we can do bigger in the States. 287 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,080 And the plan for us is to basically the first one we did 288 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,040 was a bit of a pilot. We want to see if it works. 289 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,360 Can we blow this out? Can we make it a bit bigger and, 290 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,120 you know, just better than anything, just in events the 291 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,040 future because, you know, digital journalism doesn't 292 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,720 necessarily make as much money as it used. 293 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,600 To no, no, even with a, with a circulation of what 22 million 294 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,440 or something I think deadline. There's a couple of people that 295 00:14:58,440 --> 00:14:59,640 read us, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 296 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,320 So, yeah, let's. So let's go back to late night 297 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,440 then, and because there's been a huge amount of flux and, you 298 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,160 know, it seems like Donald Trump has had a hand to play in the 299 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,280 change of the late night landscape. 300 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,600 He would like to to think he has and, and obviously the Late Show 301 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,760 with Stephen Colbert ended last week and I was covering that 302 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,520 last show and, and you know, he'd been calling for Colbert's 303 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,360 cancellation. He's been calling for Jimmy 304 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,120 Kimmel's cancellation. And you know, Seth Meyers didn't 305 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,200 quite touched Jimmy Fallon as much or, or The Daily Show, but 306 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,360 Daily shows cable. So maybe he just watches 307 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,800 broadcast TV. It was there was an interesting 308 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,320 statement that CBS put out yesterday because if you 309 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,080 remember the timing of of the Colbert cancellation, it was 310 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,360 last summer. So they gave him quite a long 311 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,800 amount of time to to run into his last, last shows. 312 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,280 It had come days after Stephen Colbert had said on his show 313 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,680 that Paramount had paid a big fat bribe to the Trump 314 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,280 administration. It was in relation to an 315 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,320 interview on 60 Minutes or the editing of an interview on 60 316 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,120 Minutes. And so, you know, the conspiracy 317 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,200 theories were like, that's why they've cancelled the show. 318 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,120 The David Ellison's come in. They they want to make good with 319 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,040 the Trump administration. They want to make good with 320 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,800 Donald Trump himself. So if we cancel Colbert, that'll 321 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,400 go some way to do it. I think two things can be true 322 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,120 at once. I think that probably had some 323 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,200 influence, even though CBS has said it's not. 324 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,960 But the other thing is it was clear that late night and 325 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,800 particularly on CBS, was costing a lot of money. 326 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,600 In fact, CBS actually put out a statement yesterday that said 327 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,760 they were losing $40 million a year to make that show. 328 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,720 And that's a lot of money. And I don't necessarily think a 329 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,400 late night show has to cost quite as much as maybe they were 330 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,680 were spending on it. But they basically decided to 331 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,040 get rid of late night because what was in its place now is a 332 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,760 show with Byron Allen. But it's an, it's an ad buy. 333 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,560 He pays, he pays for the, he's a time buy, he pays for the slot. 334 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,240 He sells his own advertising and can put whatever he wants on 335 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,280 there. And they made the point that 336 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,040 he's paying $15 million. So there's a $55 million swing 337 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,680 from losing $40 million a year to to making 15,000,000. 338 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,680 And it was a it was better for them. 339 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,200 So I think two things could be true at once. 340 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,640 I think there was some political pressure, but it's clear that at 341 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,720 late night, you know, it just isn't what it was. 342 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,440 People are fewer people are staying up to watch it on 343 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,599 television. Most people are watching it on 344 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:29,120 YouTube the next day and it costs a lot of money. 345 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:34,280 Yeah, yeah. And and what's, what's, what's 346 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,760 his next move then? I mean, other than, I think, did 347 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,000 I say he was writing some Lord of the Rings? 348 00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:42,200 Well, he is a huge, yeah, he is a Lord, a huge Lord of the Rings 349 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,120 fan, and he is writing a Lord of the Rings. 350 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,440 I mean is first one is he writer I mean? 351 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,320 Oh well, you know, he was. But long before he got into late 352 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,920 night, even before the Colbert Report, yeah, he he had written 353 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,960 Strangers with Candy was a program that he had. 354 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,080 I think Amy Sedaris was in that Fact. 355 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,720 Check me on that. But yeah, he is a writer and 356 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,720 he's one of the writers of his show. 357 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,440 I think that's some fun. I mean, he clearly knows a lot 358 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,120 about Lord of the Rings. But the interesting thing last 359 00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:08,040 week was he set up his own YouTube channel. 360 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,560 Now there's only one video that came has that he's put on it and 361 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,960 it was filmed the next day. It was almost like a public 362 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,440 access TV show looked like a low budget version of his show. 363 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,720 The slight difference was that he had Jeff Daniels and Eminem 364 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,080 on it, which I'm sure if you're doing a cheap late night show, 365 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,520 you can't do every night. But but it was interesting that 366 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,360 that was his first move. Again, talking of late night, 367 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,400 Trevor Noah, who used to host The Daily Show is now considered 368 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,840 quote UN quote a creator because he's he's doing a lot of work 369 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,120 with YouTube. So I think that's an obvious 370 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:42,680 place for these people to go. They clearly have an audience. 371 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,640 They clearly have a lot of fans and they can do it themselves. 372 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,440 And they aren't, you know, they have a lot of money because 373 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,720 traditional broadcasters have paid them a lot of money. 374 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,800 So I think that's whether that's what Stephen Colbert does full 375 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,320 time, who knows, But it interesting that that was his 376 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,240 first move after leading. It feels like a logical move in 377 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,840 the way that I mean, Piers Morgan again, you know, he's 378 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,560 almost created the blueprint there, hasn't he? 379 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,560 Really I'm. Sure, Stephen Colbert would love 380 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:12,400 to be compared to. So, so let's talk about other 381 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:18,120 new developments in content then that everybody's talking about 382 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,840 right now, I'm sure. And I can, you know, see loads 383 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:25,960 of deals being done in in Hollywood is vertical video and 384 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:29,800 yeah, OK. And so you know that we've seen 385 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,280 lots of deals being done. I mean, I guess the most notable 386 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,960 1 of the last, I mean, it's a bit a little bit of a while ago 387 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,680 now, but was Fox Entertainment investing in holy water and you 388 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:41,680 know. I could cut you off there 389 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,320 because I don't buy it. I mean, I don't buy vertical 390 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:45,760 video. Do you remember a few years ago 391 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,360 we were all talking about NFTS funding television. 392 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,680 I can remember back when 3D television was going to be the 393 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,320 the hot new thing and you know, when was the last time we said 394 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,240 that? I think vertical video will 395 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,160 exist. I think you know that we. 396 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,720 Obviously a lot of people watch content on their phone and 397 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,760 that's not going to change. I think it's, you know, it's a 398 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,320 very particular genre that's done well in this. 399 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,040 You take out the China side of things and. 400 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,680 Well, it's a very different business model in in very 401 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,000 different territories where you've got people paying, you 402 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,040 know, tiny amounts, huge numbers of people paying tiny amounts 403 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,640 who are perhaps don't have access to regular TV, though, 404 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,080 they're just watching on their phones, have a good Wi-Fi signal 405 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,240 in the in the middle of China. Rural China was going to even in 406 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,680 in the States, people are going to, you know, on Instagram, yes, 407 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,920 they might watch 30 seconds of My Boyfriend Killed My Mistress, 408 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,480 you know, some 62nd micro drama. Is it going to be a real 409 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,040 business that we're talking about in a few years? 410 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,720 I very much doubt it now. I think what will be interesting 411 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,840 is I think you'll see a lot of the likes of I mean, Bravo just 412 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,880 did this a few months ago. They announced a couple of 413 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,040 shows. You know, Netflix might do some 414 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,880 some stuff in that world. I just don't think it's going to 415 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,640 be, you know, it's not going to be these soapy titles. 416 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,640 We haven't had an English language hit in the vertical 417 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,800 space. And honestly, I think we won't 418 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,600 be talking about this. In two years? 419 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,200 Well, that's, I mean, I mean, the, the, the, the question is, 420 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,800 is it, is it basically going to be content that's going to be 421 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,760 focused on the already the social platforms that are 422 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,320 featuring this, whether it's Instagram or TikTok or whether 423 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,240 there's a one app to rule them all? 424 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,480 I mean, obviously that's what sort of Netflix and Disney Plus 425 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,240 is starting to lean into. They're making it available. 426 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,720 It probably is a test, but. Exactly because they're trying 427 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,320 to take on TikTok. If you've you've noticed over 428 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,520 the last few years, Netflix has been taking on YouTube very 429 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:37,960 aggressively. You've seen what it's done in 430 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,520 the sort of podcasting space, video podcasting space. 431 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,560 They, you know, talk about YouTube all the time on their 432 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,480 earning calls. Ted Sound does calling YouTube a 433 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,520 little bit of a farm league, which is ironic considering, you 434 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,240 know, he's actually taking the talent from YouTube to try and 435 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,760 pay them more to to go to Netflix. 436 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,600 Or I guess in that sense it is. I think the next one they'll try 437 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,480 and take on is TikTok because TikTok is clearly the place 438 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,480 where most people watch these kind of vertical videos, you 439 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,200 know, saying this is to to men who don't watch a lot of TikTok. 440 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,200 Well, I don't know. I I seem to scroll, do scroll 441 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,200 quite a fair bit, I have to say. But yeah, now that's really 442 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,360 interesting. I, I think I'll tell you what I 443 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,200 also thought was interested in a week or so ago go by a company 444 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,240 called Rosebery. Are you aware of what Rosebery? 445 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:34,360 So Rosebery did a a deal with A&E, all three, Banerjee, 446 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:40,600 Cineflix and Fremantle to basically verticalize selected 447 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:47,640 catalog titles and basically using AI to sort of chop that 448 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:52,440 content down and make up more appropriate, suitable for 449 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,680 vertical viewing. So that that that kind of makes 450 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:56,280 sense. Good. 451 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:01,480 Because it's a low cost production pipeline of content 452 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,560 that's already there and needs monetizing. 453 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,840 And obviously all these businesses are like, yeah, yeah, 454 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,920 let's feed into that. But you know how that gets 455 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,240 monetised is is is, you know, still the question, isn't it? 456 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,800 Yeah, I can't wait to see Mayday in my Instagram for you page. 457 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,120 Yeah, that's going to be really exciting. 458 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,120 I think those deals have been going ever since. 459 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,920 You know, we've been in in this business every few years, 460 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,480 whatever thing new thing comes around, you get the big 461 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,120 distributors who have these giant catalogues of content and 462 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:31,600 they figure out how to sell it again, whether that's selling it 463 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,240 to subscription streaming or whether that, you know, AVOD or, 464 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,120 or now with this they'll be doing, they'll be flogging this 465 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,120 stuff for not forever, but it's you know. 466 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,960 So you're call calling it as a hoax vertical video I. 467 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,000 Wouldn't say a hoax, but I don't think, I don't think we're going 468 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,240 to be talking about it in a couple of years. 469 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,160 In this sense, no. Yeah, OK. 470 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:55,600 And all right, well, So what, what do you think is the biggest 471 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,800 opportunity that you know, we've talked about the threats that's 472 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,960 facing Hollywood and and the UUSTV industry. 473 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,760 What do you think the biggest opportunity is now looking 474 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,440 forward for? You know, where, where's this 475 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,600 growth going to come from? Or is it, or is it? 476 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,640 Is it purely a case of managed decline? 477 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,600 It's not managed decline. Make cool shit and make it 478 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,320 cheaper. Simple as you know, where would 479 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,840 you a big hit, whether that's in scripted or or unscripted. 480 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,160 I don't think things have changed. 481 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,880 I think you know, the ways we, you know, perhaps watch things a 482 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,120 little bit differently than we used to, but you know, make cool 483 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:33,440 shit and make it a little bit cheaper than you used to. 484 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,880 So I know you probably don't think about the UK industry that 485 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,920 much anymore. Only when I'm winding you and 486 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,880 our powers up. Yeah, exactly. 487 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:52,120 But I mean, historically the US industries looked to the UK for 488 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:57,840 as a, you know, a real hotbed of talent, production talent boards 489 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,880 on screen talent. And we've seen that, you know, 490 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,280 building over the last few years, but that it feels to me 491 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,520 that seems to be waning now. I mean how, how is Hollywood? 492 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,720 And I say Hollywood in that wider sense of USTV industry, 493 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,600 but how is it viewing the UK industry right now? 494 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,040 It's funny you say it's waning because obviously before I 495 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,240 joined Deadline, I was at broadcast in large. 496 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,520 My job was to try and figure out what British production 497 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,600 companies and British talent was doing in the States. 498 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,880 And, and now I'm looking at it from a slightly different 499 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:33,000 perception is they still care as much and, and the UK is still 500 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,960 that hotbed of talent and creativity and Hollywood has 501 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,440 absolutely recognised it. What's changed is they used to 502 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,000 have to go to certain people to get it and now they can go 503 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,600 direct. Look at the number of, I mean, 504 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,440 even just, you know, in, in acting circles, you know, 505 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,600 British actors are, are widely considered, you know, top of the 506 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,240 heap. So that's, that's fantastic. 507 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,440 In terms of formats, there's fewer formats in the unscripted 508 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,200 world that are are necessarily coming out of, but that doesn't 509 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,800 mean that those people aren't, you know, there's so many you 510 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,760 look at the unscripted world in the States, ABC has a 511 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,640 commissioner, the number 2 unscripted commissioner, Gillie 512 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,520 Pearce is British. Fox just hired Sophie Leonard 513 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,120 from Minnow Films and she's a a Brit Rob Wade is the CEO of Fox 514 00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:19,320 and he's a Brit who used to, you know, work on The X Factor and 515 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,720 shows like that. So there's, you know, and 516 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,800 they're still employed me. So, you know, there's something 517 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:28,520 about our accents and the way we we do things is is still very 518 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,520 popular over there. I just don't think they 519 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,120 necessarily need to go to production company X or 520 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:35,960 production company Y to do it. Perhaps the talent and 521 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,480 particularly now in this sort of super independent world, I think 522 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,920 that's it. But oh man, the number Americans 523 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,120 still love coming over to London for a hunting trip. 524 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,480 Don't don't get me wrong. Yeah. 525 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,000 And so, and so what's what's next for, for you and deadline 526 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,720 then what's the, what's the, you know, what's the next or the 527 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,200 rest of this year? We're almost halfway through 528 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,080 2026 already, but what's, what's the back end of the year look 529 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:03,680 like for you? Oh. 530 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,200 I couldn't possibly tell you what's happening anything more 531 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,920 than a week away, but I think there's the thing for Deadline 532 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,840 and the thing for for me is we have to figure out we still have 533 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,520 a lot of people read our stories online. 534 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,680 Now we are, we face the same challenges that some of the 535 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,200 traditional broadcasters face in that that people are just 536 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,080 reading it in slightly different places. 537 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,440 We need to make sure we can monetize that. 538 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,360 The fact that we're launching events like the Deadline Reality 539 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:33,240 Summit, the company owns South by Southwest, it's clear that 540 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,560 events, I think live entertainment is the thing that 541 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,320 joins the publishing business and the television business. 542 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,880 And I think people want to experience that. 543 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,000 So I think we'll we'll probably do more of that. 544 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,000 But no, Deadline's job is basically to make sure that we 545 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,960 tell you what's going on in the business before anybody else. 546 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,640 And that won't change the way we do It might change. 547 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,520 You know, we've got 3 or 4 social media managers now in the 548 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,000 world where we didn't when I joined because that's how a lot 549 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,760 of people view our content and view our stories. 550 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,600 So there'll be tweaks to that. But ultimately, yeah, you you 551 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,320 read Deadline because you want to know what's going on and that 552 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,280 bit of the job hasn't necessarily changed. 553 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:15,400 What do you make of the whole Married at First Sight scandal? 554 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,600 Is that sort of made an impact in Hollywood? 555 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,760 People aware of it. I'm not sure they have. 556 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,160 I'm not sure they are. I think well, Married at First 557 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,840 Sight was actually part of a huge deal at Peacock relatively 558 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,240 recently because it used to be on A and the A&E channels and, 559 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,400 and Peacock bought it from Kinetic Content. 560 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,240 There hasn't been a huge amount of chat. 561 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,400 I, I think it, it is a very, this one is a very British 562 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,800 problem and, and they clearly need to, to get to the bottom of 563 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,120 it. I haven't kept up to date with 564 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,680 it, but from what my colleagues, you know, Jake Kanter writing 565 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:54,120 about it and so forth, it looks, I mean, it doesn't look great, 566 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:55,680 does it? I, I just don't think it, I 567 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,440 don't think it's a problem inherent with the show. 568 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,880 I think it's a problem inherent with the production, it seems. 569 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,600 So that problem hasn't, hasn't quite got, I mean, that format 570 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,840 goes around the world. So I don't don't think it's just 571 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,920 the US that would be keeping an eye on that. 572 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,360 It's, you know, it's a, it's a very British scandal, I think. 573 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,720 Yeah, yeah, for an Australian show right as well, so. 574 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,520 Well, it's a Scandinavian show, but it is a Scandinavian format. 575 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,000 I think it came from Snowman, which was the production 576 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,960 company, but it was the Australian version, which was a 577 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,200 bit sexier, a bit faster. That seems to have basically. 578 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,000 Influence, that was a hit through Covad wasn't it, in the 579 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:42,440 UK and that that then sparked the Commission in the UK. 580 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,360 Exactly. And I think that's it, but I 581 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,800 think the format, I can't remember exactly which of the 582 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,600 Scandinavian countries it came out of, but yeah, the Australian 583 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,160 version was the thing that supercharged it. 584 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,960 We'll see in the States whether whether it's a hit on Peacock, 585 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,080 because Peacock's had a lot of success with Love Island. 586 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,680 It took them six seasons. It's the only show in America I 587 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,280 can remember that they it took them six seasons to become a 588 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,240 hit. Because mostly if a show isn't a 589 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,360 hit after seasons one or two, it's done. 590 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,680 Or episode one or two. Yeah, exactly. 591 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,520 Within yeah. And streaming now season 2 is 592 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,200 basically like episode 2. But so yeah, we'll see if if it 593 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,320 has any knock on it impact. I suspect it will. 594 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,480 Well, now it's time for I'm looking forward to this for your 595 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,840 story of the week, Pete. Well, we sort of touched on it a 596 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,480 little bit and in fact, we're talking of of late night, given 597 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,120 that Stephen Colbert, you know, was just kicked off the air last 598 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,160 Thursday. But I was going to take this 599 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,760 into a digital space just so I know you like, as I said, I came 600 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,320 out of the upfronts last week or the week before, sorry. 601 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,720 And there was a couple of people doing some interesting things. 602 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:47,600 There was a a kid, I was going to call him a guy. 603 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:48,880 I mean, I think he's 20 years old. 604 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,960 His name is Julian Shapiro Barnum, and he's launching a 605 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,960 show called Outside Tonight, and it is essentially The Tonight 606 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,120 Show. It's filmed outside, it's filmed 607 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,240 in New York, but it's got all the bells and whistles of a late 608 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,160 night show. There's there's music, there's 609 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,720 comedy, there's variety, there's chat and there's interviews. 610 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:11,040 And he is doing this at I couldn't even tell you how much 611 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,280 cheaper than The Tonight Show, but it will be interesting to 612 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,320 see whether people connect with that because there's no real 613 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,880 difference as to as to what he's doing as to what the traditional 614 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,600 broadcasters do are doing. And I think that will really 615 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,120 open the door. I mean, we've seen interview 616 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,480 shows, you know, there's a million interview shows on 617 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,440 YouTube. But I think the thing with Late 618 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,280 night is it's not just an interview show. 619 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,080 It's it's all of the rest of it. It's the comedy aspect. 620 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,320 It's the band at the end of the episode and it's getting those a 621 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,640 listers on that that you don't necessarily see. 622 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,800 So I'd be very curious just to see how Julian Shapiro Barnum 623 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,440 does. And outside tonight and there's 624 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,280 one or two others. There's a guy called Ben Glebe 625 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,040 who he claims he's launching the the first late night show on 626 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,640 YouTube. I think he's beating Julian by a 627 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,280 few days. But post Colbert and we will get 628 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,160 to a point, you know, Jimmy Kimmel's been threatening to 629 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,880 retire for years now. And and Fallon and and Seth 630 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,400 Meyers, their contract comes up in 2028. 631 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,160 So there will be a new generation doing this and they 632 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,240 probably will have never heard of Johnny Carson Austin. 633 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,120 They've probably never even heard of David Letterman or 634 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,200 Conan O'Brien to some extent. But I think YouTube and social 635 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,960 will be where some of these late night type shows go in the 636 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,200 future, yeah. That's going to be exciting to 637 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,360 see. How about your Hero of the week? 638 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,880 Well. We sort of touched on it. 639 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,120 I've got a couple. I was going to I was going to 640 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,960 use a movie 1. Admittedly, this the, you know, 641 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,160 this is telecast, but I think I was going to make the point of 642 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,400 Kane Parsons, who is the director of Backrooms because he 643 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,200 comes out of this, you know, creepypasta YouTube world. 644 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,080 And by all accounts, this movie is going to do incredibly well. 645 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,800 It's going to be a 24's biggest film. 646 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,600 And I think that the talent that are focusing on making stuff 647 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,600 like this, and I'll give you another, there's a guy called 648 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,760 Kareem Rama who many people will have seen. 649 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:02,040 He does subway takes and he did subway takes as a TikTok series 650 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,880 to start with because he realized that no one was doing 651 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,200 TikTok shows. And his new show is a show 652 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,840 called Keep the Meter running, which he has done, you know, on 653 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,520 YouTube. And I think what will be really 654 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,480 fun to see is so he was in development for quite a while, 655 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,560 you know, just under a year at CNN with this show. 656 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,160 Cause keep the meter running is, is somewhat of a traditional 657 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,840 travel log. He gets in the back of a taxi, 658 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,920 tells the taxi driver to keep the media running and go 659 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,600 wherever you want. And he, and you know, he talks 660 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,800 with the taxi driver drive about the heritage and about history 661 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,640 and, and other things. And he decided to, you know, get 662 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,360 rid of the CNN development to just do it himself and do it on 663 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,080 YouTube. And if that can be a hit, I 664 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,360 think there'll be a lot of people who are thinking, well, 665 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,280 why do I need to, to do this with a traditional broadcaster? 666 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,400 Why do I need to go to ACNN or go to a cable network or even a, 667 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,800 a streaming service, a Netflix and Amazon? 668 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,720 Because I can just control this. I can own this myself. 669 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,880 I can do whatever I want. There's no rules on length of. 670 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,960 And then I can license. It and then I can license it and 671 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,800 I think you know the success of something like backrooms will be 672 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,400 fascinating in the in the theatrical world and I think 673 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,480 keep the media running and Kareem Rama if that pops you 674 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,199 because he's he's not young. You know he's closer to my age 675 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:25,080 than he is Kane Parsons age. So I think that the idea of, of 676 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,960 new talent will these are the opportunities for these 677 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,719 platforms and, and they're not really doing anything. 678 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,239 They don't really have to do anything. 679 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,199 You know, YouTube, the criticism of YouTube, if, if you want, and 680 00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:37,480 I put this to Neil Mohan, the CEO last week. 681 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,080 I interviewed him and I said, you're really not, you don't 682 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,639 have to do much because people are uploading this themselves. 683 00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:44,440 And if it's a hit, you take credit for it. 684 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,159 Now they will argue that what they are doing is the technology 685 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:50,760 and, and the tech side of things, which you know, as 686 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,120 anyone who's used you used YouTube knows it is a pretty 687 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,920 seamless experience, But they aren't investing. 688 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,880 You know, they're long gone are the days these of YouTube 689 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,680 originals, They're just, they're just the the home for these 690 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,640 places and they get the reflected glory. 691 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,560 Yeah, yeah. And they get they get about half 692 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,560 the. 55% yeah, well, 4545% of the, the revenue, 55% going. 693 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,440 And again, I said to Neil Mohan, could a company come along and 694 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,720 say, you know, we're just going to, we're going to do a 7525 695 00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:21,240 deal and all those people will go. 696 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:23,080 And, and, you know, he seemed pretty chill about it. 697 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,440 And the reason he's pretty chill about it is he knows it's the 698 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,320 biggest streaming service in the world. 699 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,240 It is the biggest streaming service in the US Netflix is 700 00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:32,680 desperate to be as big and have as, you know, the, the 701 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,480 engagement numbers that YouTube does. 702 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,400 So I can't see it going away. No, absolutely not. 703 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,160 And you know, you can imagine why Netflix are worried. 704 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,240 I mean, this is the attention war now, isn't it? 705 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:46,800 And it's all about attention, and YouTube's free. 706 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,880 And it's on in everybody's front room now. 707 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,160 Yeah, not everybody's, but, you know, it's getting there. 708 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,400 And who or what are you telling me to get in the bin? 709 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,040 I'm putting Spencer Pratt in the bin. 710 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,000 I've come straight from LA where I I voted. 711 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,520 I posted my my ballot just before I left and this is for, 712 00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:07,320 well, in this instance, the mayoral race. 713 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,840 And I will not say Karen Bass is doing a wonderful job as mayor. 714 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,720 And not to get too political about it, but Spencer Pratt is 715 00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:17,960 very much his namesake. He is. 716 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:21,840 He's basically a man who used to be very famous during the hills. 717 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,640 He seemed to spend all his money a few years ago because he 718 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,520 thought the world was ending as part of the Mayan apocalypse. 719 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,800 Turned out it didn't end. So now he needs to find more 720 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,760 money and more popularity and he's running this really, he's 721 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,760 running a MAGA campaign. Whether he is as right wing as 722 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,160 as the branch of the Republicans, who knows. 723 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,760 But he's really not doing LA any any favours because it just 724 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,880 makes us look daft that this guy is second in the polls and and 725 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,320 you know, he's quite frankly an idiot. 726 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,120 So get in the bin. Spencer Pratt. 727 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,640 OK, he's in the bin. Before I let you go, I'm going 728 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:06,880 to ask you about SNL UK obviously had a how many episode 729 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,600 run. I think it was it 8 in the end. 730 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,600 I think it was 8 or 10. I can't quite remember. 731 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,720 How was how was Hollywood viewing that, you know, in terms 732 00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:19,240 of because obviously in the end, relatively small viewing figures 733 00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:21,760 on linear, but you know, obviously did pretty well on 734 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,240 socials, but you know, is that being perceived as a success? 735 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,240 I don't think anyone in Hollywood knows there is auk 736 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:34,160 version of Saturday Night Live. Having said that, as a Brit who 737 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,120 lives in LA who really did not think SNLUK would work, I was 738 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,480 very sceptical because SNL is, is a very strange beast. 739 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,440 I, I don't watch it on linear because it's it, it actually 740 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,160 does air on Peacock. But what I do is much like 741 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:50,760 everyone else's, I watch those clips. 742 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,600 And because we are behind in terms of the time zone on a 743 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,800 Saturday evening, I can throw up YouTube and it will give me some 744 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,960 clips. And I tell you what, I can still 745 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:03,680 hum that pub song that they did a few weeks ago. 746 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,200 And I think the thing that's done very well is the talent 747 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,880 that's coming out of SNL. Now here's the thing where I 748 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,680 think Hollywood may pay, start paying attention. 749 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,840 There are some, clearly some very funny people on that cast. 750 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,040 And I think what Hollywood will be paying attention to is if any 751 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,120 of those break out, because we all know that SNL is, is, you 752 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,800 know, over the years has been this this place for talent to 753 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,760 emerge out of and then become movie stars. 754 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,600 And it has happened less than it used to. 755 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,520 But I think whether the British version can achieve something 756 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:35,920 similar. I know some of the people on the 757 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,680 SNLUK were slightly better known than perhaps new cast on the US 758 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,960 version, but I thought it was very funny and I wish them all 759 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,880 the best. In fact, the guy who's 760 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,400 essentially the showrunner, James Longman, used to be one of 761 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,840 the executive producers of the Late Late Show with James 762 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,920 Corden. So it has a little bit of of 763 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,600 that as well. And I know Lorne Michaels and 764 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,480 Tina Fey and people like that spend a lot of time in London to 765 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,760 get it right. So yeah, while America might not 766 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,160 be talking about it, I think they might be in in future. 767 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,120 I think that I think there'll be some interesting things to come 768 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,800 out of it. Yeah, well, it's the second 769 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,800 season of that on the way as well, isn't it? 770 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:15,840 Pete, thank you for joining me what, 5 years after the the 771 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,800 first appearance on telecast. So 5 1/2 years later, so now 772 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,080 it's a pleasure Justin and it's so you know, I'm really pleased 773 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,840 to see how, how you're doing because I know this was a labour 774 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,880 of love when you started it and it seems to have gone from 775 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,600 strength to strength. So well done mate. 776 00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:32,480 Thanks mate, thank you. And should we go for a beer? 777 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,560 We should go for a beer. All right, let's do that. 778 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,800 Well, that's about it for this week's telecast. 779 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,320 Thanks very much for Pete White from Deadline for joining me. 780 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,280 Telecast was produced by Spirit Studios and recorded in London. 781 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,960 We'll be back next week with another show. 782 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:47,520 Until then, stay safe.