Hi, I'm Justin Crosby, and welcome to another episode of
Telecast. My guest this week is an old
friend of mine, and he's just straight in from LA.
He's Peter White, executive editor and Deadline.
How are you doing, Pete? Hello mate.
I'm good, I'm good. I was just thinking this.
We're really sort of going back a while because when you first
launched this, when it was in just audio form, we were doing
this over Zoom in the end of 2020.
That's it. And we would do sort of 15
minutes in from LA just after I'd moved there.
And you just started this, so it's nice to.
You've upgraded to sofas. You're looking like Alex Cooper
herself. Yeah.
Thanks for that. Yeah, yeah.
And what I'm really looking forward to catching up.
I mean, we're going to go for a beer afterwards.
So we're, we're but, but this is our first proper chat that we've
had for ages. And thanks for coming on in and,
and, and having a chat. And you're right, I think you
know you're going because you went to LA just before pandemic,
just you were on the was it like you were the last flight out of
London before lockdown happened right to LA?
March 17th, 2020, We were the last flight out of London
Heathrow, the day before the OR the day of the Trump travel ban.
And yeah, stayed there ever since.
Well, we've got loads to talk about, all that change in the
last five years, which is, you know, the, the TV industry's
some bits of recognisable, some bits not.
So you know, huge changes are happening.
So I'm going to start with this question, Is Hollywood burning
down right now? Well, I hope not.
I haven't been there for 24 hours.
And it does have a tendency to burn.
But no, I don't think it is. I think there's some, there's
some challenges, don't get me wrong.
And, and there's some things going on that aren't necessarily
making it particularly fruitful for the people who live and work
there. But Hollywood's always been
cyclical and, and people will figure this stuff out.
I mean, it depends what you mean by Hollywood as well.
There's a fit, you know, literal place.
One of the challenges at the moment is, is production in
Hollywood or in or around California.
And then there's Hollywood, the sort of greater being of, of the
studios of which here since we last spoke, there's been some
new owners and and so forth. There's still a lot of
consolidation that going on. But no, it's, it's, it's still a
pretty exciting place to to live and work.
Yeah, but but there's no getting away from the old industry is
you're right saying it's cyclical, but this feels more
fundamental. I think, you know, the changes
that we've seen over the, you know, since the pandemic, you
know, and in some cases, you know, accelerated by the
pandemic as well. We've seen obviously streaming
come through and now we're seeing YouTube as being TV and,
you know, the, the, the whole, you know, the whole structure,
you know, Cape cable cutting the whole structure of the, of the
USTV industry is changing, right?
And, and you know, there's always going to be people that
is going to profit from that. There's always going to be
people that, you know, unfortunately may say that the
time's over in TV. But I mean, overall, do you
sense excitement in LA, in the LA industry, in TV or you know,
or is there a certain amount of fear?
Oh, I think there's there's always fear, but I think you're
right. I think there's two types of
people who in the industry, there's the people that that
everyone sees the change coming. It's those who can adapt and
figure it out and figure out the new world and those who are
still holding on to their, you know, three-part Animal Planet
commissions. I think that world is, is
definitely dying, if not dead, but I think a lot of the people
who are seeing, as you said, we're living in Youtubes world
now. We're living in this world where
social media is, is so important.
I think there's a lot of people from the old world that have
just adapted to that and are doing exciting new things.
The the thing about Hollywood is over the last few years, it's
sort of been run by dinosaurs and it's been run by very old
people, often old white men. And Hollywood is a young
person's game. There's some really exciting
things going on. I mean, just I don't cover the
movie business per SE, but you see what happens with Backrooms.
This new a 24 film. The guy was 18 when he directed
it and it's now on par to be a 24's biggest movie ever.
So you sort of need to find the youth and and yeah, he came out
of YouTube, He came out of 4 Chan.
And I think as long as the industry make sure to find those
types of people, they could still release theatrical movies.
They can still make television in a sort of quote UN quote
traditional form. But yeah, maybe, maybe there's
maybe some of the people who are worried are the people who are
worried that that's things have passed them by.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that has been, I
think the leaders of a lot of these corporations have seen the
change coming, but maybe it was inconvenient for them to make
potentially the change that they might have needed for the good
of the company rather than perhaps the good of their own
pension pot. Or, you know, it seems like
there's very few people in the UK and also in the US that have,
you know, they, they would have known that, you know, that the
changes were going to happen and the speed that it was happening,
but they didn't seem to be able to react.
In television, and I sort of understand why, you're
absolutely right. You look at the what we used to
think of as the cable world, which was responsible for the,
the vast, you know, this huge volume of, of original orders,
original series, which allowed producers to, to make hand, you
know, a lot of money. And yeah, if you're still
relying on that world, yeah, it things are over, you know, if,
as I said, if not dead already. But the problem is those
businesses still throw off a lot of money and they still throw
off a lot of cash. So I do understand why it's hard
for those companies to say, you know what, that's not our
business anymore. And we're just going to go
digital first. We're just going to go social
first. So I sort of see it's, it's a
it's an oil tanker, right? It just take it, it is very slow
to turn. I think it's easier for some of
the newer companies to be able to do that because they're they
have less baggage basically. And, and that's why you get some
of the, you know, there's always a hot new company every few
years. But, but when you look at the
studio system, yeah, you know, Warner Brothers Discovery and
Paramount emerging or David Ellison's buying Warner
Brothers. But a lot of that money still
comes from some of those cable networks that we hardly ever
talk about now, you know, the HGTVS of the world, you know,
the Science Channel and and Discovery Channel and, and some
of those things. So I get why it it, it can seem
scary to those people. But I also know that they really
do need to, you know, a lot of the traditional production
companies are starting to to make YouTube first TV shows or
quote UN quote, TV shows. So it depends the scale if you
are, but yeah, yeah. So who's who's thriving right
now in in LA, in the in the TV business?
I think the people who have figured out how to bring
production costs down, that is the number one thing you hear
across the board, whether that's from the movie business, from
the linear TV business, the streaming business.
The problem isn't. And some of these traditional
companies, it costs a lot of money to produce these shows
because this is the way they've always done it.
If you can find a slightly smarter way to do that now, you
know, a few years ago that was taking your show and making it
in Ireland because it was cheaper there or making your
sitcom in Wales, even though it's for AUS broadcaster.
But even that's probably going to come down now because the
costs are so high and the viewership is so fragmented that
if you aren't able to to make a show cheaper than you used to
be, yeah, you're you're dead. You see what these kids can now
make on online and, and they're they're absolutely wiping the
floor with the with the old people.
Yeah. So you met, you mentioned
Paramount and the deal for Warners, which is I think it's
just has it been rubber stamped in, in the, in the US?
No, it hasn't. It's not.
It's not complete. I mean, it's going to happen any
day now, really. We don't quite have a timeline.
But yeah, he's just sort of got to tick all of the boxes before
he's got the the full keys to the Kingdom.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I saw a piece the other
day which was talking about EU and there's a whole load of
regulation, the EU that, you know, they're going to
investigate it as well. So it feels like it's going to
rumble on for another year or two.
It'll rumble on. By the time it all finishes,
it'll probably be you know, someone else will try and buy
it. It tends to be, but no, it's,
it's funny you, you mentioned Europe and they're all of these
things. I think David Ellison doesn't
really care about the rest of the world.
I, I think, you know, there's probably a few bits of business
elsewhere that, you know, makes a bit of money for him.
That'll be nice. But he's focused on making,
making 30 movies a year. He's not focused on what's
what's happening in on the continent.
Yeah. So what?
What looking at that merger and what's going to come out at the
back end of that? What new company is going to
come out of back back of that? I mean, number one thing is, is
it's there's got to be huge number of redundancies.
I would imagine, you know, it seems to, you know, if there's
no merger that happens without, you know, 20% at least of staff
going. But, and you have to remember,
he, he only just bought Paramount and he's only still
going through some of the layoffs for, for Paramount.
And he's got to find 6 billion in savings for, for the new
business. Now he says he's going to do
that without making layoffs. I think you and I have been
around long enough to know that's not going to happen.
There will be, you know, and there of course, there, there,
there should be because there are going to be a lot of people
who are doing the same jobs at those two businesses.
But yeah, there'll be layoffs. It'll be depressing for a little
while until until the ship can steady.
Yeah, Yeah. So one of the now you're
executive editor now, does that mean that you still do the late
night shows beat or is it, have you given that to somebody else
now? No, I I haven't.
Yes, A pretty silly title really.
As Americans that want to do, what do I cover?
I mean, I cover all of television.
My boss, Nellie Andreva knows the scripted TV business better
than anyone else. So I realised there was no real
point in trying to trying to compete with her for the scoops
on that side of things. So I sort of, yeah, I lent into
late night, which is having a really strange time and, and I
want to come back to that in a second, do a lot of unscripted
cover a lot of the reality TV business and the reality TV
business. In fact, we just launched an
event in LA about a month ago called the Deadline Reality TV
Summit. And yes, it doesn't get quite
the attention that the scripted world does.
But when you think about some of the unscripted shows, the voice
is the thing that's, you know, often propping NBC up.
Love is Blind is one of Netflix's biggest shows.
Mr. Beast's Beast Games is Amazon's, you know, biggest.
They say it's a big unscripted show.
So it's probably just as big as some of their, you know, white
men with gun shows. So these are unscripted titles
that really prop up a lot of these places.
And I think unscripted is going to have a a real place when it
comes to YouTube. I just came from the upfronts in
New York and and YouTube does their annual brand cast.
And it looked like an old school TV presentation and there was
one or two scripted things. But you know what it was?
It looked a lot like cable of of the olden days.
It was it was unscripted formats.
It was documentary series. They were cheaper to make and
they were being, you know, 25 year olds rather than 45 year
olds. But I think unscripted is where
the initial rush in that YouTube world in, in that, you know,
whatever we're going to call that is is going to come from
and, and whether a format or two can pop out of that is what I
think people are going to be looking for.
Well, well, yeah, definitely. Let's come to on to talk about
like that in a second. But but yeah, it was really
interesting to see you launch that unscripted event and, you
know, it's got, I love to see, you know, companies launching
new events because I know what goes into that.
And but I thought that was a really interesting move because
obviously we've seen real screen and and nappy, you know, sadly
fold, but you know, which felt like, you know, a bit of a
bellwether for for the factual space in particular.
But So what was the thinking behind that?
Well, I've been. Pitching this event for 18
months it's funny, we announced our event the day that real
screen announced that they were no longer which I think a few
people sort of saw the correlation, but in fact I, I
just well, first. That was purely by chance.
It was purely it. Genuinely was a coincidence, but
I think we'd seen where things were going and honestly, I hate
Miami with a passion and real screen's been in Miami for the
last few years. So I figured if I can create an
event where I don't have to go to a city of crypto, then then
I'd be happy. But the other thing that or or
one of my main reasons for doing it was they used to be the case.
The unscripted business was was East Coast and West Coast.
It was kind of 5050 when I started writing about TV and I
would hazard a guess that it's probably now 80 to 90% on the
West Coast. A lot of those production
companies are based and everyone was sort of saying, well, why
are we flying all the way to Miami or New Orleans or all
these other places? Why don't we do something in LA?
We've got better access to talent.
We can get all of the top execs. We, you know, one of the, the
top things that we had at at the reality summit was we had the
buyers, we had the unscripted buyers for all of the major
platforms and, and broadcasters. So we had the Jeff Gaspin from
Netflix, Jen Levy who just got the job at Amazon, and we had
Fox and NBC and CBS and, and ABC and, and those six people were
on a panel together for the first time.
And it's really interesting to get those decision makers
together. And I sort of figured we could
do that if we do it in LA and we had access to talent.
As I said, we had Andy Cohen, who ironically is an East Coast
talent but happened to be in LA and I knew that the people who
are going to come to that event are based in LA.
They don't need to spend too much time.
It was, it was a one day event. In fact, we're doing a spin off
in London next week as part of South by Southwest, which is
owned by PMC, which is the company that owns Deadlines.
So we're sort of seeing it as this brand that we can do in the
UK, we can do bigger in the States.
And the plan for us is to basically the first one we did
was a bit of a pilot. We want to see if it works.
Can we blow this out? Can we make it a bit bigger and,
you know, just better than anything, just in events the
future because, you know, digital journalism doesn't
necessarily make as much money as it used.
To no, no, even with a, with a circulation of what 22 million
or something I think deadline. There's a couple of people that
read us, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, let's. So let's go back to late night
then, and because there's been a huge amount of flux and, you
know, it seems like Donald Trump has had a hand to play in the
change of the late night landscape.
He would like to to think he has and, and obviously the Late Show
with Stephen Colbert ended last week and I was covering that
last show and, and you know, he'd been calling for Colbert's
cancellation. He's been calling for Jimmy
Kimmel's cancellation. And you know, Seth Meyers didn't
quite touched Jimmy Fallon as much or, or The Daily Show, but
Daily shows cable. So maybe he just watches
broadcast TV. It was there was an interesting
statement that CBS put out yesterday because if you
remember the timing of of the Colbert cancellation, it was
last summer. So they gave him quite a long
amount of time to to run into his last, last shows.
It had come days after Stephen Colbert had said on his show
that Paramount had paid a big fat bribe to the Trump
administration. It was in relation to an
interview on 60 Minutes or the editing of an interview on 60
Minutes. And so, you know, the conspiracy
theories were like, that's why they've cancelled the show.
The David Ellison's come in. They they want to make good with
the Trump administration. They want to make good with
Donald Trump himself. So if we cancel Colbert, that'll
go some way to do it. I think two things can be true
at once. I think that probably had some
influence, even though CBS has said it's not.
But the other thing is it was clear that late night and
particularly on CBS, was costing a lot of money.
In fact, CBS actually put out a statement yesterday that said
they were losing $40 million a year to make that show.
And that's a lot of money. And I don't necessarily think a
late night show has to cost quite as much as maybe they were
were spending on it. But they basically decided to
get rid of late night because what was in its place now is a
show with Byron Allen. But it's an, it's an ad buy.
He pays, he pays for the, he's a time buy, he pays for the slot.
He sells his own advertising and can put whatever he wants on
there. And they made the point that
he's paying $15 million. So there's a $55 million swing
from losing $40 million a year to to making 15,000,000.
And it was a it was better for them.
So I think two things could be true at once.
I think there was some political pressure, but it's clear that at
late night, you know, it just isn't what it was.
People are fewer people are staying up to watch it on
television. Most people are watching it on
YouTube the next day and it costs a lot of money.
Yeah, yeah. And and what's, what's, what's
his next move then? I mean, other than, I think, did
I say he was writing some Lord of the Rings?
Well, he is a huge, yeah, he is a Lord, a huge Lord of the Rings
fan, and he is writing a Lord of the Rings.
I mean is first one is he writer I mean?
Oh well, you know, he was. But long before he got into late
night, even before the Colbert Report, yeah, he he had written
Strangers with Candy was a program that he had.
I think Amy Sedaris was in that Fact.
Check me on that. But yeah, he is a writer and
he's one of the writers of his show.
I think that's some fun. I mean, he clearly knows a lot
about Lord of the Rings. But the interesting thing last
week was he set up his own YouTube channel.
Now there's only one video that came has that he's put on it and
it was filmed the next day. It was almost like a public
access TV show looked like a low budget version of his show.
The slight difference was that he had Jeff Daniels and Eminem
on it, which I'm sure if you're doing a cheap late night show,
you can't do every night. But but it was interesting that
that was his first move. Again, talking of late night,
Trevor Noah, who used to host The Daily Show is now considered
quote UN quote a creator because he's he's doing a lot of work
with YouTube. So I think that's an obvious
place for these people to go. They clearly have an audience.
They clearly have a lot of fans and they can do it themselves.
And they aren't, you know, they have a lot of money because
traditional broadcasters have paid them a lot of money.
So I think that's whether that's what Stephen Colbert does full
time, who knows, But it interesting that that was his
first move after leading. It feels like a logical move in
the way that I mean, Piers Morgan again, you know, he's
almost created the blueprint there, hasn't he?
Really I'm. Sure, Stephen Colbert would love
to be compared to. So, so let's talk about other
new developments in content then that everybody's talking about
right now, I'm sure. And I can, you know, see loads
of deals being done in in Hollywood is vertical video and
yeah, OK. And so you know that we've seen
lots of deals being done. I mean, I guess the most notable
1 of the last, I mean, it's a bit a little bit of a while ago
now, but was Fox Entertainment investing in holy water and you
know. I could cut you off there
because I don't buy it. I mean, I don't buy vertical
video. Do you remember a few years ago
we were all talking about NFTS funding television.
I can remember back when 3D television was going to be the
the hot new thing and you know, when was the last time we said
that? I think vertical video will
exist. I think you know that we.
Obviously a lot of people watch content on their phone and
that's not going to change. I think it's, you know, it's a
very particular genre that's done well in this.
You take out the China side of things and.
Well, it's a very different business model in in very
different territories where you've got people paying, you
know, tiny amounts, huge numbers of people paying tiny amounts
who are perhaps don't have access to regular TV, though,
they're just watching on their phones, have a good Wi-Fi signal
in the in the middle of China. Rural China was going to even in
in the States, people are going to, you know, on Instagram, yes,
they might watch 30 seconds of My Boyfriend Killed My Mistress,
you know, some 62nd micro drama. Is it going to be a real
business that we're talking about in a few years?
I very much doubt it now. I think what will be interesting
is I think you'll see a lot of the likes of I mean, Bravo just
did this a few months ago. They announced a couple of
shows. You know, Netflix might do some
some stuff in that world. I just don't think it's going to
be, you know, it's not going to be these soapy titles.
We haven't had an English language hit in the vertical
space. And honestly, I think we won't
be talking about this. In two years?
Well, that's, I mean, I mean, the, the, the, the question is,
is it, is it basically going to be content that's going to be
focused on the already the social platforms that are
featuring this, whether it's Instagram or TikTok or whether
there's a one app to rule them all?
I mean, obviously that's what sort of Netflix and Disney Plus
is starting to lean into. They're making it available.
It probably is a test, but. Exactly because they're trying
to take on TikTok. If you've you've noticed over
the last few years, Netflix has been taking on YouTube very
aggressively. You've seen what it's done in
the sort of podcasting space, video podcasting space.
They, you know, talk about YouTube all the time on their
earning calls. Ted Sound does calling YouTube a
little bit of a farm league, which is ironic considering, you
know, he's actually taking the talent from YouTube to try and
pay them more to to go to Netflix.
Or I guess in that sense it is. I think the next one they'll try
and take on is TikTok because TikTok is clearly the place
where most people watch these kind of vertical videos, you
know, saying this is to to men who don't watch a lot of TikTok.
Well, I don't know. I I seem to scroll, do scroll
quite a fair bit, I have to say. But yeah, now that's really
interesting. I, I think I'll tell you what I
also thought was interested in a week or so ago go by a company
called Rosebery. Are you aware of what Rosebery?
So Rosebery did a a deal with A&E, all three, Banerjee,
Cineflix and Fremantle to basically verticalize selected
catalog titles and basically using AI to sort of chop that
content down and make up more appropriate, suitable for
vertical viewing. So that that that kind of makes
sense. Good.
Because it's a low cost production pipeline of content
that's already there and needs monetizing.
And obviously all these businesses are like, yeah, yeah,
let's feed into that. But you know how that gets
monetised is is is, you know, still the question, isn't it?
Yeah, I can't wait to see Mayday in my Instagram for you page.
Yeah, that's going to be really exciting.
I think those deals have been going ever since.
You know, we've been in in this business every few years,
whatever thing new thing comes around, you get the big
distributors who have these giant catalogues of content and
they figure out how to sell it again, whether that's selling it
to subscription streaming or whether that, you know, AVOD or,
or now with this they'll be doing, they'll be flogging this
stuff for not forever, but it's you know.
So you're call calling it as a hoax vertical video I.
Wouldn't say a hoax, but I don't think, I don't think we're going
to be talking about it in a couple of years.
In this sense, no. Yeah, OK.
And all right, well, So what, what do you think is the biggest
opportunity that you know, we've talked about the threats that's
facing Hollywood and and the UUSTV industry.
What do you think the biggest opportunity is now looking
forward for? You know, where, where's this
growth going to come from? Or is it, or is it?
Is it purely a case of managed decline?
It's not managed decline. Make cool shit and make it
cheaper. Simple as you know, where would
you a big hit, whether that's in scripted or or unscripted.
I don't think things have changed.
I think you know, the ways we, you know, perhaps watch things a
little bit differently than we used to, but you know, make cool
shit and make it a little bit cheaper than you used to.
So I know you probably don't think about the UK industry that
much anymore. Only when I'm winding you and
our powers up. Yeah, exactly.
But I mean, historically the US industries looked to the UK for
as a, you know, a real hotbed of talent, production talent boards
on screen talent. And we've seen that, you know,
building over the last few years, but that it feels to me
that seems to be waning now. I mean how, how is Hollywood?
And I say Hollywood in that wider sense of USTV industry,
but how is it viewing the UK industry right now?
It's funny you say it's waning because obviously before I
joined Deadline, I was at broadcast in large.
My job was to try and figure out what British production
companies and British talent was doing in the States.
And, and now I'm looking at it from a slightly different
perception is they still care as much and, and the UK is still
that hotbed of talent and creativity and Hollywood has
absolutely recognised it. What's changed is they used to
have to go to certain people to get it and now they can go
direct. Look at the number of, I mean,
even just, you know, in, in acting circles, you know,
British actors are, are widely considered, you know, top of the
heap. So that's, that's fantastic.
In terms of formats, there's fewer formats in the unscripted
world that are are necessarily coming out of, but that doesn't
mean that those people aren't, you know, there's so many you
look at the unscripted world in the States, ABC has a
commissioner, the number 2 unscripted commissioner, Gillie
Pearce is British. Fox just hired Sophie Leonard
from Minnow Films and she's a a Brit Rob Wade is the CEO of Fox
and he's a Brit who used to, you know, work on The X Factor and
shows like that. So there's, you know, and
they're still employed me. So, you know, there's something
about our accents and the way we we do things is is still very
popular over there. I just don't think they
necessarily need to go to production company X or
production company Y to do it. Perhaps the talent and
particularly now in this sort of super independent world, I think
that's it. But oh man, the number Americans
still love coming over to London for a hunting trip.
Don't don't get me wrong. Yeah.
And so, and so what's what's next for, for you and deadline
then what's the, what's the, you know, what's the next or the
rest of this year? We're almost halfway through
2026 already, but what's, what's the back end of the year look
like for you? Oh.
I couldn't possibly tell you what's happening anything more
than a week away, but I think there's the thing for Deadline
and the thing for for me is we have to figure out we still have
a lot of people read our stories online.
Now we are, we face the same challenges that some of the
traditional broadcasters face in that that people are just
reading it in slightly different places.
We need to make sure we can monetize that.
The fact that we're launching events like the Deadline Reality
Summit, the company owns South by Southwest, it's clear that
events, I think live entertainment is the thing that
joins the publishing business and the television business.
And I think people want to experience that.
So I think we'll we'll probably do more of that.
But no, Deadline's job is basically to make sure that we
tell you what's going on in the business before anybody else.
And that won't change the way we do It might change.
You know, we've got 3 or 4 social media managers now in the
world where we didn't when I joined because that's how a lot
of people view our content and view our stories.
So there'll be tweaks to that. But ultimately, yeah, you you
read Deadline because you want to know what's going on and that
bit of the job hasn't necessarily changed.
What do you make of the whole Married at First Sight scandal?
Is that sort of made an impact in Hollywood?
People aware of it. I'm not sure they have.
I'm not sure they are. I think well, Married at First
Sight was actually part of a huge deal at Peacock relatively
recently because it used to be on A and the A&E channels and,
and Peacock bought it from Kinetic Content.
There hasn't been a huge amount of chat.
I, I think it, it is a very, this one is a very British
problem and, and they clearly need to, to get to the bottom of
it. I haven't kept up to date with
it, but from what my colleagues, you know, Jake Kanter writing
about it and so forth, it looks, I mean, it doesn't look great,
does it? I, I just don't think it, I
don't think it's a problem inherent with the show.
I think it's a problem inherent with the production, it seems.
So that problem hasn't, hasn't quite got, I mean, that format
goes around the world. So I don't don't think it's just
the US that would be keeping an eye on that.
It's, you know, it's a, it's a very British scandal, I think.
Yeah, yeah, for an Australian show right as well, so.
Well, it's a Scandinavian show, but it is a Scandinavian format.
I think it came from Snowman, which was the production
company, but it was the Australian version, which was a
bit sexier, a bit faster. That seems to have basically.
Influence, that was a hit through Covad wasn't it, in the
UK and that that then sparked the Commission in the UK.
Exactly. And I think that's it, but I
think the format, I can't remember exactly which of the
Scandinavian countries it came out of, but yeah, the Australian
version was the thing that supercharged it.
We'll see in the States whether whether it's a hit on Peacock,
because Peacock's had a lot of success with Love Island.
It took them six seasons. It's the only show in America I
can remember that they it took them six seasons to become a
hit. Because mostly if a show isn't a
hit after seasons one or two, it's done.
Or episode one or two. Yeah, exactly.
Within yeah. And streaming now season 2 is
basically like episode 2. But so yeah, we'll see if if it
has any knock on it impact. I suspect it will.
Well, now it's time for I'm looking forward to this for your
story of the week, Pete. Well, we sort of touched on it a
little bit and in fact, we're talking of of late night, given
that Stephen Colbert, you know, was just kicked off the air last
Thursday. But I was going to take this
into a digital space just so I know you like, as I said, I came
out of the upfronts last week or the week before, sorry.
And there was a couple of people doing some interesting things.
There was a a kid, I was going to call him a guy.
I mean, I think he's 20 years old.
His name is Julian Shapiro Barnum, and he's launching a
show called Outside Tonight, and it is essentially The Tonight
Show. It's filmed outside, it's filmed
in New York, but it's got all the bells and whistles of a late
night show. There's there's music, there's
comedy, there's variety, there's chat and there's interviews.
And he is doing this at I couldn't even tell you how much
cheaper than The Tonight Show, but it will be interesting to
see whether people connect with that because there's no real
difference as to as to what he's doing as to what the traditional
broadcasters do are doing. And I think that will really
open the door. I mean, we've seen interview
shows, you know, there's a million interview shows on
YouTube. But I think the thing with Late
night is it's not just an interview show.
It's it's all of the rest of it. It's the comedy aspect.
It's the band at the end of the episode and it's getting those a
listers on that that you don't necessarily see.
So I'd be very curious just to see how Julian Shapiro Barnum
does. And outside tonight and there's
one or two others. There's a guy called Ben Glebe
who he claims he's launching the the first late night show on
YouTube. I think he's beating Julian by a
few days. But post Colbert and we will get
to a point, you know, Jimmy Kimmel's been threatening to
retire for years now. And and Fallon and and Seth
Meyers, their contract comes up in 2028.
So there will be a new generation doing this and they
probably will have never heard of Johnny Carson Austin.
They've probably never even heard of David Letterman or
Conan O'Brien to some extent. But I think YouTube and social
will be where some of these late night type shows go in the
future, yeah. That's going to be exciting to
see. How about your Hero of the week?
Well. We sort of touched on it.
I've got a couple. I was going to I was going to
use a movie 1. Admittedly, this the, you know,
this is telecast, but I think I was going to make the point of
Kane Parsons, who is the director of Backrooms because he
comes out of this, you know, creepypasta YouTube world.
And by all accounts, this movie is going to do incredibly well.
It's going to be a 24's biggest film.
And I think that the talent that are focusing on making stuff
like this, and I'll give you another, there's a guy called
Kareem Rama who many people will have seen.
He does subway takes and he did subway takes as a TikTok series
to start with because he realized that no one was doing
TikTok shows. And his new show is a show
called Keep the Meter running, which he has done, you know, on
YouTube. And I think what will be really
fun to see is so he was in development for quite a while,
you know, just under a year at CNN with this show.
Cause keep the meter running is, is somewhat of a traditional
travel log. He gets in the back of a taxi,
tells the taxi driver to keep the media running and go
wherever you want. And he, and you know, he talks
with the taxi driver drive about the heritage and about history
and, and other things. And he decided to, you know, get
rid of the CNN development to just do it himself and do it on
YouTube. And if that can be a hit, I
think there'll be a lot of people who are thinking, well,
why do I need to, to do this with a traditional broadcaster?
Why do I need to go to ACNN or go to a cable network or even a,
a streaming service, a Netflix and Amazon?
Because I can just control this. I can own this myself.
I can do whatever I want. There's no rules on length of.
And then I can license. It and then I can license it and
I think you know the success of something like backrooms will be
fascinating in the in the theatrical world and I think
keep the media running and Kareem Rama if that pops you
because he's he's not young. You know he's closer to my age
than he is Kane Parsons age. So I think that the idea of, of
new talent will these are the opportunities for these
platforms and, and they're not really doing anything.
They don't really have to do anything.
You know, YouTube, the criticism of YouTube, if, if you want, and
I put this to Neil Mohan, the CEO last week.
I interviewed him and I said, you're really not, you don't
have to do much because people are uploading this themselves.
And if it's a hit, you take credit for it.
Now they will argue that what they are doing is the technology
and, and the tech side of things, which you know, as
anyone who's used you used YouTube knows it is a pretty
seamless experience, But they aren't investing.
You know, they're long gone are the days these of YouTube
originals, They're just, they're just the the home for these
places and they get the reflected glory.
Yeah, yeah. And they get they get about half
the. 55% yeah, well, 4545% of the, the revenue, 55% going.
And again, I said to Neil Mohan, could a company come along and
say, you know, we're just going to, we're going to do a 7525
deal and all those people will go.
And, and, you know, he seemed pretty chill about it.
And the reason he's pretty chill about it is he knows it's the
biggest streaming service in the world.
It is the biggest streaming service in the US Netflix is
desperate to be as big and have as, you know, the, the
engagement numbers that YouTube does.
So I can't see it going away. No, absolutely not.
And you know, you can imagine why Netflix are worried.
I mean, this is the attention war now, isn't it?
And it's all about attention, and YouTube's free.
And it's on in everybody's front room now.
Yeah, not everybody's, but, you know, it's getting there.
And who or what are you telling me to get in the bin?
I'm putting Spencer Pratt in the bin.
I've come straight from LA where I I voted.
I posted my my ballot just before I left and this is for,
well, in this instance, the mayoral race.
And I will not say Karen Bass is doing a wonderful job as mayor.
And not to get too political about it, but Spencer Pratt is
very much his namesake. He is.
He's basically a man who used to be very famous during the hills.
He seemed to spend all his money a few years ago because he
thought the world was ending as part of the Mayan apocalypse.
Turned out it didn't end. So now he needs to find more
money and more popularity and he's running this really, he's
running a MAGA campaign. Whether he is as right wing as
as the branch of the Republicans, who knows.
But he's really not doing LA any any favours because it just
makes us look daft that this guy is second in the polls and and
you know, he's quite frankly an idiot.
So get in the bin. Spencer Pratt.
OK, he's in the bin. Before I let you go, I'm going
to ask you about SNL UK obviously had a how many episode
run. I think it was it 8 in the end.
I think it was 8 or 10. I can't quite remember.
How was how was Hollywood viewing that, you know, in terms
of because obviously in the end, relatively small viewing figures
on linear, but you know, obviously did pretty well on
socials, but you know, is that being perceived as a success?
I don't think anyone in Hollywood knows there is auk
version of Saturday Night Live. Having said that, as a Brit who
lives in LA who really did not think SNLUK would work, I was
very sceptical because SNL is, is a very strange beast.
I, I don't watch it on linear because it's it, it actually
does air on Peacock. But what I do is much like
everyone else's, I watch those clips.
And because we are behind in terms of the time zone on a
Saturday evening, I can throw up YouTube and it will give me some
clips. And I tell you what, I can still
hum that pub song that they did a few weeks ago.
And I think the thing that's done very well is the talent
that's coming out of SNL. Now here's the thing where I
think Hollywood may pay, start paying attention.
There are some, clearly some very funny people on that cast.
And I think what Hollywood will be paying attention to is if any
of those break out, because we all know that SNL is, is, you
know, over the years has been this this place for talent to
emerge out of and then become movie stars.
And it has happened less than it used to.
But I think whether the British version can achieve something
similar. I know some of the people on the
SNLUK were slightly better known than perhaps new cast on the US
version, but I thought it was very funny and I wish them all
the best. In fact, the guy who's
essentially the showrunner, James Longman, used to be one of
the executive producers of the Late Late Show with James
Corden. So it has a little bit of of
that as well. And I know Lorne Michaels and
Tina Fey and people like that spend a lot of time in London to
get it right. So yeah, while America might not
be talking about it, I think they might be in in future.
I think that I think there'll be some interesting things to come
out of it. Yeah, well, it's the second
season of that on the way as well, isn't it?
Pete, thank you for joining me what, 5 years after the the
first appearance on telecast. So 5 1/2 years later, so now
it's a pleasure Justin and it's so you know, I'm really pleased
to see how, how you're doing because I know this was a labour
of love when you started it and it seems to have gone from
strength to strength. So well done mate.
Thanks mate, thank you. And should we go for a beer?
We should go for a beer. All right, let's do that.
Well, that's about it for this week's telecast.
Thanks very much for Pete White from Deadline for joining me.
Telecast was produced by Spirit Studios and recorded in London.
We'll be back next week with another show.
Until then, stay safe.