Hi and welcome to another episode of Telecast.
This week I'm speaking with Timothy O from CUL Group, 1 of
China's biggest distributors and producers of micro drama.
I hope you enjoy the show. So, Timothy, welcome to
Telecast. Thank you our. 1st guest, I
think from Singapore, which is great to see you here.
And, and you're from Col. Group, which is really at the
centre of this huge micro drama boom that we've been covering on
the drop and we've been talking about on telecast recently as
well. So first of all, tell us about
your role within Col. Group and and and, and tell us
about Col. Group as a business.
So I've been brought on to drive the international expansion of
the micro drama beyond the US and China.
I think, you know, it's well established that in China it's
really doing very well. It's exceeded the box office
revenue is kind of setting the scene for what it's going to
become, right. And I think that's where, you
know, I find it really exciting. So when I got a call and say,
you know, Tim will like you to come on board.
And you know, I come from a background where I used to be a
producer, director of films, scripted and unscripted and in
Sony and in gaming. And then I thought like, you
know, this is really cool because we've come to a place
where it's finally digital first, where micro dramas
vertical viewing is a priority for companies.
So I immediately was like really excited, especially when it was
working with a company like Col. And, you know, there are many
companies out there that are like in the micro drama space.
And I think one of the things that really made the company
really unique is that it's an IP company.
So it started 25 years ago being a incubator of IPS.
And you know, so we are the second largest in in China,
which pretty much you know is a lot of IPS to work.
With, yeah, I can imagine. And did you start from from
ebooks as well? Was that a central part of your
business before? Because that I know that's
really what's driven this whole micro drama boom is that that's
the IP at the centre of it, isn't it?
This ebook ebook business. Yeah, yeah, I think I think
you're right. You know, like the ebooks, you
know, collecting stories from writers from all over the world,
China to start with. I think that was how we started.
And you know, the main audiences were audiences that were really
reading all these, you know, E stories online, even subscribing
to, you know, like these stories through your MMS. And we were,
we used to work with telcos to send like chapters every day.
So it's very similar to the the concept of micro dramas, right?
There's a natural progression for AOL Group really to move
into into visual, visualized storytelling.
Exactly. And I think the formats evolved
right. You know, we we've gone with
like, you know, you know, drama series, films, animation and it
was just a natural like transition when it becomes a
free vertical experience. So I do think that, you know,
the opportunity of like shorter content has never been
maximized. I know we all know that short
films exist for the long time, for the longest time, right?
And we never knew how to monetize it.
So I think micro drama is an evolution of that.
Yeah. And I mean, it's certainly a
booming business, which is, which is, you know, a rarity for
the content industry because lots of the content industry has
been in decline for the last 5-10 years or so.
So it's really refreshing to see something that's really fueling
growth across the US. And obviously, is it still in
growth in China this this space is it, is it still in a growth
phase? It's very mature in China.
I think you know the from the way the content is being
consumed even to like how the IPS are developed, there are
very significant IPS that have like sequels, which we don't see
them in the Western world yet or rest of world, if my, if I may
say so. I think the maturity of the
platform and format allows things to be adapted a lot
better IPS to be more mature. So in China, definitely a lot
more mature, but it's growing really quickly.
Everywhere else. I think people are still trying
to figure out how to make money with micro dramas.
I think when we talk about booming, the two parts to it,
right there is the consumer that's watching it and then
there is the people who pay for it.
So the view viewership is definitely there and I think
it's just a natural transition For anyone who's been on your
mobile phone, you've been watching TikTok, Instagram.
It's just a matter of consuming a different kind of content
vertically. But in terms of who's paying for
it, I think that's where the growth is AT.
Is the quality of the content good enough for people to start
paying and paying more? And how sustainable is that?
That's the big question. And that's really interesting
and we'll come back to that if we may.
But let's first of all talk about CL groups and the apps
that you have. So how many apps do you do you
oversee and and and create at Col. group globally?
I mean, it gives us a sense of what scale of the business is.
Sure. So we're the first to where to
launch in China, the whole micro drama ecosystem.
So we had an app there and then subsequently within the China
space, we've become a like a leading content producer for
Hong Kong, which is one of the the biggest platform right now
in China and other outside of China.
We incubated Crazy Maple Studio, which obviously has real short
one of the leading platforms in the world.
Yeah. That's that's one that probably
I think that most of our listeners and viewers will be
aware of is crazy Maple Studios in the US, Yeah.
So real short. They may have one or two other
one or two other apps, but that's the main 1, isn't it?
Yeah. And and then subsequently we
launch quite a few others like we had Unireel 0 Plus and more
recently Flare Flow. That is one of the fastest
growing platform in the US and globally as well.
So yeah, it's been quite a journey we've been going on
this, you know, micro drama, race and putting a lot of horses
out there. Yeah.
And and those different apps, are they, are they collections
of different types of content for different audiences or
what's the difference between them?
I would say they are not distinct in terms of what the
audience they're trying to target.
It's really all pretty much the same.
But you know, I, I think the way we do it is that we want to see
how, because it's so new, you know, you don't know how it's
going to work and having one method or one go to market
strategy for one app isn't viable enough.
So we have different apps that. Puts a numbers game, but it's
the same content, often within the different apps.
Exactly. So we know if you were to pick
between these 10 apps, right? And you know, we own a few of
them. That really helps because we are
we own the collection. Of education.
Lots of different lines in the water to catch the fish.
Exactly. Exactly.
OK. And and so you're responsible
for international outside the US and China.
So where are you seeing the most growth outside of those two
markets then? There's a lot of growth in
markets like Southeast Asia, Brazil, Japan.
I think these are markets where people are really, I would say
focused on mobile 1st and they've always been struggling
with like, you know, getting pay TV because it's so expensive.
So when you start seeing content that's accessible and you know,
like of, of a quality that is, is obviously to them exciting,
interesting stories, right? I think that really penetrates
really well to countries like this.
Yeah. Well, coming back to the point
about monetization and apps versus what we're starting to
see now is, you know, you know, TikTok launching their own micro
drama app and the obviously micro drama is also starting to
appear on Disney Plus and Google, Google just announced
they're going into the micro drama business.
Fox investing in holy water, for example.
I mean, there's all the big players are making different
moves into this market. What will that mean for the the
current ecosystem? Because as you say it's all
micro part micro payment driven. Surely though, that's that is
still a barrier to viewing the actual micro payment, whereas
obviously lots of consumers are used to seeing all their content
for free on social video platforms like Instagram or any
of these, YouTube, for example. So do you see a natural
progression for micro drama appearing on these larger social
video platforms and they're becoming funded in different
ways and and talk a little bit to that, That'd be interesting
to get your viewpoint. So I think there are multiple
playbooks to this industry. I think micro drama is how this
all started. The way it's going to evolve is
how content is being consumed vertically and every company
would have different approach to how they would actually adapt to
that. I think it's very clear that,
you know, with shorter attention span, people are not watching
sudden shows as before. And I was, I was quoting this
example of ATV show I used to watch on Lifetime.
And I was mentioning to this colleague of mine and she was,
she's 22. She was like, I don't know what
that is And you know, but we all knew, we all know like what
Lifetime is, right? It's like a easy to watch
channel. So I think for players like, you
know, the networks, even the OTT players are going to continue to
look at. So how can I extend the lifespan
of my brand, my eyepiece and have it to be mobile first so
that it could, you know, stay relevant in today's economy
where people are watching content vertically.
And that playbook is a completely different approach
from a company that is invested or rather like, you know, backed
by a gaming company who wants into who wants to go into a
micro drama space, who wants to do microtransactions.
Essentially, the the different drive to how they want to
approach vertical content would end up in very different
results. So I would imagine like a series
on Netflix and yeah, Disney Plus would look very different from
the dramas that you have on the micro drama apps.
Because they would probably think if I were to do a next
reiteration of a IP that I have, or to say, for example, they
want to bring back Orange is the New Black, they might go.
I might do it on a vertical basis and appeal to this new
group of audience that has not seen it.
The hook's going to be different because you're not going to make
them pay for it. It's part of the subscription.
Yeah, but but did you, I mean you talking about that being
actually reshot that's a new series or reversion pure because
it wouldn't work, right? It can't work if you just
reversion the original content. It's a micro drama.
It's just it just doesn't have that hook every 90 seconds,
right? I mean, it's like cutting a
console game into a mobile game. It doesn't work that way.
Yeah, you can't. You can't just edit it down.
You have to redo the stories. I mean, there are some companies
that are looking to edit films and edit TV series down, but you
get them on Instagram now. Like you get these summaries of
shows for free, so you're not bringing extra value to it.
And also with micro series, right?
Because it's so it's, it's, it's, it's such a simple story
that we're telling. And it's also vertical.
And every episode is just two minutes.
You can't tell four stories or five stories in subplots in 2
minutes because by the time you get to the 8th episode, you have
to go back to the first character.
So most of the time you have like a character you're rooting
for, you're following through the character's journey versus 4
storylines with it's like 6 subplots.
So you can't really do that. And you can't concise all of
that into a vertical space. So I would imagine that, you
know, whoever who wants to reimagine the IP, they would
have to pick something vertical first.
So that could be an individual character story within out of
coming out of an IP. You said that exactly like
Orange is the New Black. It could be following one
character's story. Yep, after the original series
of Finish or something like that.
Some sort of reimagining. Exactly.
Even if you were to put like, you know, a dating show, right,
you know, it would be very simple.
You'd be following this character because you want to
know if this person is going to make it.
Yeah, It's a very simple story. And I, I always relate it to
gaming, right? You know, you have big games
that is a console only. And then you have mobile games
that are easy to play. You could play anywhere.
And my mom is now a gamer because she plays Bejewel and
Candy Crush, right? And and it's simple.
But then these big IPS that we've seen, so even like games
like Mario, right? We've played it on the console.
It's now also on mobile, but it's done differently.
It's done in a more accessible way so that more people could
could play it. Yeah.
So I guess it's really expanding the eyepiece so that, you know,
more people could experience it with shorter attention spend and
shorter investment in time. Yeah.
And and so coming back to my
original question in terms of the maturity of the marketplace
for a, for a territory like the UK still relatively new with
micro drama. But do you expect it to be much
more driven by micro payments or do you expect it to be much more
driven by revenue generated on social, social platforms going
forward? I think it every culture and
every country that's been at, you know, speaking or talking to
different people in terms of the content receptiveness, I think
really the first specifically to the UKI think the current
content doesn't really sit 100% well with the the UK audience.
The kind of humor overacting. Let's well, let's be honest,
it's pretty cheesy. A lot of it's have you heard of
a series of books called Mills and Boone?
Yes, I've you have okay, so that's the audience will a lot
of our audience in the UK will know that that's like, you know,
it's it's kind of cozy, cheesy, kind of like, you know, love
story, romance and what. Happened, but it's not Kemp.
And I know like, you know, the pretty humor.
They love dry humor, which, you know, you don't really get that
in the micro drama, no. Yeah, no.
So, so you'll, you expect to to obviously have a lot more
content created natively for the UK market and and working within
these different, different genres then.
Definitely, but I do think that, you know, say, for example, in
the UK, it would be really driven by a lot of these big
players who have very strong eyepiece that people grew up and
familiar with. I think in the UK people are
very nostalgic. A lot of, you know, when I talk
to like my friends and, and even people, they will talk about
shows that they've watched for the last 20 years and they
follow very religiously on on certain, you know, eyepiece.
So I do think that for things to really move and to move in a big
way, these cheesy short stories needs to be married into some of
these big eyepiece. I mean, we're seeing some of
these stories in like, you know, EastEnders and and stuff, right?
But you know, how how do they take some of these stories from
the soaps and and traditional stuff that we see on TV like
naked attraction and make it more mobile first?
Well, that. Would you imagine that as the
obvious thing with with the soaps and and and continuing
dramas just much in the way of telling novellas in Latin
markets that that would they would be the most obvious
adaptations, you know, potentially particular story.
They could link, link stories and give different contexts to
different stories which happened within the main show perhaps.
You know, yeah, it's interesting that hasn't, we haven't seen
that those plays come come through from any of the major
broadcasters yet. Not yet.
I think they are all interested in it, but they the question is
the monetization part of it. Yeah, because to to really
monetize it, you need to build up an ecosystem, yeah, to do
that, right. So you need to have an app that
enables that. You need to have brands that are
willing to pay for it if you don't have the monetization
model. But the question is that brands
are already advertising online. They are spending money on
YouTube, on Instagram, TikTok, right?
So if the networks really want to capture the advertising
dollars, increase the value of the IP, that's where they need
to start thinking. So how can I move this into the
space? Yeah, yeah.
And obviously soap operas were originally soap powders,
originally funded the whole soap opera in the 1950s.
So it could be a sort of a full circle moment if you see aerial
or something like this funding a a particular, you know, micro
drama from Hollyoaks or whatever that might be.
Yeah, exactly. Interesting.
So I think I'll be very curious to see how it, it's being picked
up here in the, I would say in in the UK setting because I do,
I do talk to a lot of producers. I think they're trying to figure
out how to do it. But it really has to come from
someone that wants to drive an ecosystem.
So it doesn't work if someone is going to produce two or three
shows because where do they put them?
Where do they monetise it? Because you can get the views,
but then nobody's going to pay for it.
So because that's it, because I suppose if you create a first of
all, how you distribute it, well, you get it on other, you
know, you distribute it or if it's not brand funded, for
example, then it would need to go on one of your apps, for
example, you know, and that will just sit there within with how
many your catalog of probably 10,000 micro dramas, right?
So, so yeah, there needs to be much more substantial kind of
ecosystem. And So what what you're, you're
over in London, you're doing lots of meetings with presumably
lots of the major production groups here.
You know, is the, are we still in a learning phase, do you
think? Are we still in a learning phase
with lots of these businesses? Just they're trying to work out
how they can get into this market?
Yes, I think everybody's curious, but I think nobody
really wants to take the first step.
I do also also think that, you know, we are we created a space
that is driven by bike, you know, like all this high stakes,
high drama content that has a reputation for being like you
said, cheesy. And a lot of IPS, a lot of
companies they don't they don't really want to go into that
space. But you know, like I mentioned,
being able to differentiate between the current approach and
what the users and viewers are actually watching, which is
vertical content. You need to take someone that is
really innovative and willing to take that first big risk and big
step to show that actually we could create, you know, UK
audience friendly content that doesn't have to be like this,
but mobile first. So I, I do think that, you know,
based on the conversations, I think people are exploring, but
they're not ready to take a big. Step but to create that
ecosystem is a huge investment right to create an app and then
to create the amount of content or or you're saying that there
could be a business. I mean it could be Col. group
right? That creates AI don't know micro
drama UK app for example, which would then be the home for what
we might see is more. Appropriate content for UK micro
drama consumers. I mean, is that are you, are
you, is that something that you're looking at, at Col.
Group? Definitely.
I think we're constantly looking for options and how we want to
expand. I think the UK market is a
really, really good market. There are really good stories.
But like you, like you and I said that the content that the
Brits do love is, is very different from what everywhere
everyone else is watching. I mean, there are similarities,
but there are certain like, you know, quirks and and storylines,
humor points that I don't think it's currently delivering.
So I think these partnerships would be a good start for, I
would say the the platforms to learn about how this actually
would work for them to figure out a road map to be more
digital first, because it doesn't make sense.
You know, when you when you turn on an app and let's just say the
Channel 4 app, right, it's vertical on your phone and then
you have to switch to horizontal to watch the episodes.
So the question is, So what is that content?
And instead of reinventing it, you know, it would be really
interesting if a big player out there would say, I want to do
something and I want to do it now because I know that people
are watching things vertically. So, so let's talk about some of
the biggest successes out there. I mean, they've been lots of,
you know, amazing success stories.
What would you say is the kind of ultimate success story for a
micro drama that you've come across that is either in China
or, or in the states or any other?
Can you just give us a bit of a case study in terms of, you
know, a micro drama that's worked, what the production cost
was and what the revenue generated was?
Sure. I'll use an example in China.
So there is this IP that we have is called Rex to from Rex to
rank one. It's a time travelling show, but
set in the, in the past, you know, and the first series had a
billion views, 1/4 of a million budget because of, because it's
historical. And within a week we had 1
billion views and people were already asking for a second
season. So typically, you know, if today
we are in a regular TV network, it would take maybe another year
or two to finalize and announce and produce, right.
So it took us two months to confirm that we're going to go
ahead with the second season because we, we saw the reception
and within 2 1/2 months we, we basically released the next
series. And the quality of the show,
it's, it's really high. You know, it's not like a shot
with your phone. So the ability to Commission
shows that quickly allows us to capture the audience and grow
the IPA lot faster than what some traditional shows would
take. You know, we wouldn't have to
wait for two years before the next series drops.
You are able to capture the audience.
So I'm going to push you on the on the on the revenue then as
well. I mean, what sort of revenue
would a would a would a successful series like that
generate from from each series? So typical series would like I
mentioned would cost around 152100K USD.
It would a revenue a good show would actually bring in like,
you know, nineteen $20 million within two weeks if it's well
marketed. This is excluding the marketing
fees obviously that's involved, which obviously would even out
quite a lot, right. So a lot of these budget goes
into making sure that the series is on the phone because the way
you discover a micro drama isn't knowing that an actor is in a
particular show. You don't see press tours, you
don't see trailers dropping before the series.
Happen when you say marketing? Yeah.
What does that actually mean when you say marketing?
I mean when it comes to the micro drama world.
It's literally marketing so that you would see the first few
episodes on your Instagram or your TikTok.
So we're doing direct marketing. We're putting the first few
series. So first few episodes out there
get you hooked so that you would download the app to finish
watching it. So it's very much using the
story to attract you and get you involved right from the get go
versus showing you a trailer, telling you, telling you who's
out there. What is the story about?
So it's it's, so it's positioning.
So not only is it paying for positioning within the actual
app that it's going to be viewed on, but it's also other social
platforms and actually paying for marketing on other other
social platforms as well to drive viewers back to it.
OK. Downloads.
Yeah, yeah. And they and, and so the
marketing, the sort of marketing campaigns that you need to
create a successful show, are they they fairly substantial?
I mean, do you, you know is marketing?
I mean does marketing exceed the, the, the production costs
for example? Definitely.
So we you could spend up to more than a million on a particular
show. But the way marketing is being
determined is we would put a show up for two to three days.
We would see how the performance is like.
We would edit the show if necessary, just so that we know
that the hooks are better. We would do thousands of
versions to of different trailers, episodes and stuff
that would go on social media to test and see who actually is
playing and watching it. And we would decide how we want
to do after three days. So we run approximately 400
experiments right each month to make sure that the show gets to
the right person. OK, wow.
And most of that, it must be driven by AI, right?
We are using AI, but at the same time there is also a huge team
that works 24/7. It must be.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
And then the way we Commission the shows are very different
from ATV Network, right? So we would look at how the show
is performing and we would actually then look at refining
some of these elements. So I'll give you an example.
We had this show called 99 Forgiveness, very simple story
about this guy who is a boxer becoming champion, which is his
girlfriend. And we released in the US and we
saw that the audience watches it, officers in age group,
they're living in certain parts of the US and they have certain
hobbies. So the next series was
commissioned within two months and it was called 99 Chances and
it's about this female male singer that was signed by a
record label and they just his girlfriend and the girlfriend
became an incredibly popular singer.
Simple. Similar story, similar IP dev
we've worked out, but we use the data to decide what is the next
version. How do we more effectively
capture the audience? So it's more similar to how a
Tik Toker or an Instagrammer decides the content.
You see someone do silly dance, and then the next moment you do
the silly dance again and you improve it.
Yep. Yeah.
And tailor. It so it's always about
iteration, isn't it? It's about learning, testing and
learning as is, you know, one of the key tenets of the the
digital First ecosystem. It's about constantly iterating
and getting better and and and closer and closer to your
target. Exactly, which is why a lot of
times, I guess when we talk to different partners, they they're
trying to figure out how to do a hook every two minutes.
There is existing IPS that set themselves up ready for this.
It's really hard to write a brand new show and you know,
like, just imagine, like, you know, 2 minutes later
something's going to happen and the payoff needs to be good
enough. Yeah, good enough for you to pay
for it. So the, the magic in this whole
process in, in making a successful show is how do you
take an existing IP that you own and a successful formula that we
own, Like how an influencer Tik Toker would work, would work,
right? And finding that balance and and
synergy, it's the same way as how you would reach to a content
producer, right? So when you, when you do, when
you work with a digital creator, you wouldn't say do the story
this way. You give them a theme, you give
them a product and they would. Do it in your own way, your own
magic. Bring your own twins.
The. Hook Exactly.
Yeah, yeah. Interesting.
So when it comes to vertical video let's you know, we can
sort of spread it out wider than than micro drama.
Where do you think the markets going in Western Europe, for
example, do you think there's a market for reality?
Do you think there's a market for, you know, factual docs,
etcetera? I mean, the whole way of viewing
content, you know, essentially micro episodes, do you see that
carrying over from drama into into different genres?
Yes, we are experimenting it. I'll, you know, I'll tell you
more about it in a bit. But definitely, I think people
are craving for more content beyond just the romance trope,
the CEO billionaire stuff. I do think that it's about, you
know, basically understanding where we are with the content.
I think different markets react differently.
For some markets, they really, really enjoy these simple Philly
drama stories. But then there's some markets
where they are a bit more sophisticated, where they like
to be challenged intellectually. But I think, like I said, right,
because of how it's being set up right now, a lot of this, these
big players in the micro drama space are not really willing to,
to push the boundary to introduce a whole new genre
because it's, it costs a lot to market.
And it cost, even though it doesn't cost a lot to produce,
it does cost a lot to make sure that this show goes into through
your your phones and you start watching it.
So it's a work in progress in, in terms of deciding how to
Commission, what to Commission, what genres to go into.
And the only people that would take the risk are the people who
believe in it. And we need more people to
believe in in in vertical and digital first.
Yeah. And so where, where do you see,
I mean you talked about Southern Asia as being, you know, a real
growth area. I mean, what about what about
Europe then in terms of different countries within
Europe? I mean, are there any early
adopters for micro drama in Europe that that you know where
we might see that in in Spain, for example or you know, because
it has perhaps a bit more of a link with telenovelas than than
than UKI mean, obviously we have a soap operas here, but slightly
different. I mean which of the markets that
are kind of leading in terms of app download downloads and and
app and consumption of micro dramas in Europe?
So I'm talking to a couple of national broadcasters and OTT
players within Europe. I can't.
I can't specifically name them because.
Yes, if you say the country. Yes, but they want to be the
first in this space. So there are a lot of, there's
some innovators that are willing to push the boundaries and they
are now like talking serious talks about how to get into this
space. There is also a lot of like
demand in the French speaking African regions.
Germany is 1 market that we were surprised by because we are
ranking really high and really well in Germany really.
And I would never think that our content would sit well with the
German audiences. But this escapism, right?
Sometimes you just want something that's a bit different
from what you used to. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I was surprised to see Germany on the list.
It's like, yeah. Me too, me too.
I didn't think that that would that would that would appeal to
them. But there we are.
That's just, you know, an assumption that's wrong.
I know, I know, but definitely that.
So I think that the European markets are very open to it.
And but like I said, you know, they're trying to figure out how
to, you know, work this formula out that is sustainable for
them. Yeah.
So, so looking ahead then in in terms of the whole vertical
video space, it feels like there are a number of major players
that are inching towards this space.
And you know, the more time goes on, the more desperate they are
because they're losing viewers, right?
And they're using losing younger viewers as well in particular.
So these are the sort of pressures that they have that
that are maybe pushing them to towards experimenting more and
actually jumping in to the micro drama space.
What do you think, You know, if you were to look ahead five
years, which is a long time, I realized, or maybe 2 years,
let's say 2 years. That's probably more realistic,
isn't it, into the the whole vertical video space.
What are you projecting at CUL Group?
What do you look when you're looking at, at at these markets
that you're responsible for? What change are we going to see
in those two years? First and foremost, I think
TikTok is going to be a major player within the space and they
are already, they already own the vertical viewing experience
with Meta. So a transition in how TikTok
would, you know, adopt the micro drama, which they already are
and how they have done it in China.
I mean, not TikTok, but you know, the bike, bike dance has
done it in China where they have really very strong dominance
over the whole market space. So it is an easier transition
for an audience watching a dance video and then swiping to a
micro drama, then a Netflix audience that would swipe into a
micro drama. Yes.
So TikTok would be a force to be reckoned with.
And then there would also be very regional partners and
regional apps where TikTok would not be able to reach because
there are IPS, they're owned by, say ITV, you know, Channel 4 in
the UK, where, you know, TikTok would have to then collaborate.
But then these IP owners would then have to decide, do I want
to own this audience or do I want to share it with the TikTok
per SE? And then there are all these
other micro drama apps that are out there.
And it would be the survival of the fittest.
There would be a few that would really stick around.
But because they have successfully built a following,
they've also found a distinction.
And I casually was talking to another top platform that it's
not China backed and there's not many, so it's easy to get to
that. And I said casually, I said if
you were to remove the logos from the shows, you can't tell
who is it from. So it's going to be a race of
who is going to be able to create eyepiece that is vertical
1st and that would actually be of a value that would grow and
not just an IP that would stay for two weeks because people
have watched it. And then we need to reinvent
something again. So it's going to be a race of
who is going to create the major IP that people will come back
for because I don't. This is the premium micro dramas
we're talking. About exactly, exactly.
So that premium micro drama, premium IP would actually come
from one of these big players, I would say an original.
And these big players like ourselves, right, would have to
look at collaborating with existing IP owners who give a
new fresh breath of air and bring it to new audiences.
Yeah. So it'll be an interesting time.
I think the next two years there'll be a lot of progression
and changes. There will be incorporation into
ecommerce too, where people could buy stuff after watching
their content. I know a lot of ecommerce
platforms, even like transport apps are looking at it because
people would think now they're waiting, so let's feed them
something to watch, yeah, while they can.
And thirdly, branded content is, is what is going to come where
our brands are going to be more and more involved in how to
utilize micro drama content to tell stories.
And we're not seeing much of that.
We're seeing a few. We're seeing for P&G Studios
recently invested into their own micro drama, didn't they?
They did, they did. And we also have a couple of
branded content series that's coming out that is less obvious
and in your face because everybody knows that it's PNG is
doing something. But a good brand of content
would you would be so subtle that you don't even know they're
there. So it's going to get to a point
where you know, it's not a new thing that Brandon content is
going to be at. You don't have to shout about
it. So I think, I think that that in
within two years we're going to get to that space.
Two years, maybe we'll see Peaky Blinders, the micro drama.
Yeah, maybe that's the sort of thing that that will will move
the needle, won't it? Definitely, Definitely, yeah.
So Timothy, let's talk about your story of the week, then
tell us which which is story that you've that you've
identified as an interesting content in this industry story
in the last 7 days. So, you know, I, I've met all
kinds of people within the industry in the last one year,
people have told me that it's not TV like micro drama vertical
is just, you know, something that you have on your phone.
We're not in the same panel, we're not in the same room.
So I've, I've been figuring out how to navigate this and in the
last couple of months, and you know, we announced it last week
where we will be doing the first ever reality series that's
adapted from an renowned IP that's existed for 12 years.
It's been on Netflix, it's been on IT, it's been on like, you
know, major platforms. And for the first time ever,
we're going to take an IP, not just even reality and, and shoot
it just pure vertically. We're not even discussing, oh,
let's do a horizontal series or TV and then we do a vertical
version. So it's essentially pivoting
completely. So what is this series then?
Tell us more about it. It's called supermodel me.
So it's ran for six seasons and had had a really good run.
And you know, I book with refinery media, which is the
owner of the IP to come up with this concept of like, you know,
how do we give new audiences that accessibility to this show?
And it's quite interesting because, you know, traditionally
you would think that an IP owner would be like, you know, I want
the value to be premium. I want it to be on a premium
series, but choosing to put eyeballs and attention span and
willingness to watch something on TikTok and and vertical
first. It's a big move and it's it
would signal the 1st for many big other big IPS to come on
this bandwidth bandwagon. Sorry.
So I'm quite excited to see how this is going to have that, you
know, effect where other people are going to go.
Oh, so I can do this now? Yeah.
So after I announced it, I've got many calls saying can we do
this and do it vertically too? Yeah.
So I mean, that's why. You've chosen your own story of
the week, but that's fine. That's but that's all right.
But that's really because that's super relevant for our
conversation. That's really interesting.
But yeah, like you say, sometimes you need the first
movers in the marketplace to to create a new trend or a new
movement in this sort of space. Exactly, Yeah.
Well, Timothy, thank you so much for joining us.
Really enjoyed meeting you and congratulations to all your
success. Thank you.
I'm sure and I hope we'll see you at some of our telecast
events in the coming months. Be great to hear a bit more.
But for the time being, thank you for coming on telecast.
Great to see you. Thanks for having me.
Thank you.