1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,640 Hello, my beautiful tower Bottoms. 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,040 I just wanted to give you the heads up. 3 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,480 The conversation in this episode does end somewhat abruptly. 4 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,280 It's only because our chat went so long I decided to break this 5 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,960 into two episodes. So next week will be Part 2. 6 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,800 But in the meantime, enjoy Part 1. 7 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:23,520 Yeah, more. Give it to me. 8 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:31,480 Yeah. Good morning, side of my Zach 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:40,960 Zowie Towers. Mike Levinson, you nailed. 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,440 You nailed. It I nailed it. 11 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,840 So I just got scolded by a listener in my podcast and I 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,960 don't even know them was on YouTube and they go this host is 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,360 so bad at introducing their guest. 14 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,040 I wind up having to Google who they are to see what they do. 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,760 And I like I'm not I'm not I'm not fit for this world, 16 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,760 especially when everyone can say things like that. 17 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,520 But I took it to heart. And so now I want to do like a 18 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,200 lengthy like who? Are you? 19 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,040 I'm the first lengthy intro. Yeah. 20 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:11,440 Wow. OK. 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,120 So you're tall. We know that if you run, run to 22 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,920 the YouTube because Mike is a certified hottie and talented, 23 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,080 talented girl. Did you do Broadway? 24 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:24,560 Thank you so much. No, I do. 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,720 I did Off Broadway. I just did my First off 26 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,320 Broadway. Ginger Twinsies. 27 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:30,320 Ginger Twinsies and. Please tell the folk. 28 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,360 Oh, so you're getting it. You're getting the intro who 29 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,160 bike is. No, it's but you are like a 30 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,640 musical theatre like Girly or I. Mean, I was a theatre kid. 31 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,720 I was a theatre kid. It was not a musical. 32 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,560 It was a straight, straight play with one sequence, one musical 33 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,480 sequence. But I was a theatre kid growing 34 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:49,920 up. I did not study theatre in 35 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,480 college. That's sort of a villain origin 36 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,360 story for me, 'cause I I started as an opera major. 37 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:56,680 Yeah, I started as an opera major. 38 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:58,800 In college. Yeah, now this is going to turn 39 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:00,120 into a whole thing. It's not the intro. 40 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,600 It's OK if you cry, you cry. OK, I, I, I tried to transfer 41 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,240 into musical theatre at Syracuse. 42 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,200 They did not accept me as an internal transfer. 43 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,120 So I did my other top choice, which was TV and film, which was 44 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,280 kind of like, it was like the rejections protection moment. 45 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,480 Ultimately, you were also like, fuck Opera. 46 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:19,680 I did not want to do opera. I was swindled into opera by my 47 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,680 voice teacher in high school. Because our brains weren't even 48 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:23,640 close to. No. 49 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,200 And I put also like he was like he was truly our God, Like he 50 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,120 was our cult leader. We were known as like Doctor 51 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,760 Nitschke, kids. His name is Doctor Nitschke. 52 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:32,600 That's. Crazy. 53 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,480 His house was Christmas year round. 54 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,280 Oh yeah, he would bid on Santa's mid voice lesson on eBay if you 55 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,800 were paying and he'd be like, he'd be like hold on, Michael. 56 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,360 Also, he had the craziest voice ever. 57 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,320 It was like it's like, hello Zach, it's three O 4:00 PM on a 58 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,880 Tuesday and I'm calling to. I'm going to go out on a limb 59 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,760 and say he touched people. He never touched us. 60 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,360 Are you sure? He never touched us, but he did 61 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,600 look like a Bond villain. I mean you. 62 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:05,880 Know Mr. Ratburn from Arthur. Oh my God, I was like, no, I'm 63 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,400 pulling up a cartoon right now, but. 64 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,680 It is the. It's the. 65 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:11,520 I would say the equivalent of that. 66 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,280 Being locked into Christmas is a very eerie trait. 67 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,120 He would like he would deviate into Easter, but it was kind of 68 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,720 like if it wasn't Easter, like 4th of July, it was Christmas. 69 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,120 I know and all like literally all around the house. 70 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,640 But he basically was like, you're not doing musical theatre 71 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,680 BFA. You are doing opera because like 72 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,040 you don't want to mess up your Dick. 73 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,520 You don't want to mess up your trajectory. 74 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,920 You need to perfect your instrument. 75 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,600 Do that, which once again, it actually kind of jail broke me. 76 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,280 It it freed me because I didn't go down the BFA track, which I 77 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,640 think broke a lot of my friends. If you see a lot of broken 78 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,600 people who did the BFA. Yeah, most of them are waiting 79 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,120 tables at Applebee's. Yeah, so this kind of forced me 80 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,840 into the other path of breaking my brain by doing the like LA 81 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,040 assistant track, which we can get into. 82 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,480 But like, I am a theatre kid at heart. 83 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,640 But like I I, I adjusted my first professional. 84 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,200 Did it OK in Ginger Twins. The concept is it's two people 85 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,680 who are not twins. It is the IT is the IT is the 86 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,120 Nancy Meyer's Parent Trap. But the most farce, a full 87 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,440 version of that story possible, which is that is, it is a 88 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,160 straight white male and a CIS black woman playing identical 89 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,800 twins. And you were the straight white 90 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,040 male. No, it's one of the 91 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,200 understudies. Oh incredible, incredible 92 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,040 actually did not. I covered basically every part 93 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,720 besides the twins which is honestly the I covered 5 parts 94 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,480 which was especially never doing it professionally. 95 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:41,960 That was tough. Challenging. 96 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,000 But I kind of just had to be like, it's OK. 97 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,920 You got this. I'm here and I have no choice. 98 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,680 Wow. And it's it's supposed to be one 99 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,640 of the funniest shows ever. It really was. 100 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:52,760 It was sensational. Is it done? 101 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:53,480 It? It is. 102 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,080 That's why I'm back. That is why I'm on this. 103 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,560 Podcast. So I'm looking for work. 104 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:57,640 Oh, OK, OK. Cool. 105 00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:58,600 It is done. It ended. 106 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,040 It ended in November. OK, We were I, I kind of moved 107 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,120 to New York being like, who knows? 108 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,680 A Titanic lasted over a year and a half years. 109 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,320 Lasted years. Years and it's going like 110 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,320 Broadway now or West End Broadway it was. 111 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,640 West End and now it's Broadway. But I was like, I don't know, 112 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,880 you might never see me again. And then the show ended. 113 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,040 Wait, are you trying to? OK, so we know you're a theatre 114 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,760 girly. You were in TV and film. 115 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,600 Yeah, I got I moved out of here, started as an assistant and then 116 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,360 on my way into stand up by kind of realizing, oh, wait, I can 117 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,520 just like write my own music. I can write my own mini 118 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,040 musicals, which is just my like comedy songs and do that and 119 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,240 then perform. And then it's sort of like on my 120 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,200 own terms, even though it's. Immediate. 121 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,480 It's immediate, even though it's terrifying, and often times I 122 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,800 was so, so anxious and insecure about being the only person like 123 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,880 singing on the lineup, which actually turned out to be like, 124 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,280 people like viewed me as the breath of fresh air because even 125 00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:54,240 if they didn't find it funny, I was doing something different. 126 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,160 But it's so funny. I most most of the time I think 127 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,480 it's received as funny, which is good. 128 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,080 Do you? Where's the best place? 129 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,680 Tower Bottoms? Those are the listeners can go 130 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,800 to find your work. I mean, my social is where I 131 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,360 post. Then I started posting my little 132 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,440 songs online, but monthly. I'm at Nico's Wine Bar in in 133 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,800 Atwater on the east side of LA. If you want to come see me, 134 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,080 Brendan Scannell and Courtney O'Donnell, we have to have you 135 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:21,480 on and your tower bottoms can come. 136 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,600 Please. We're ready 'cause you were so 137 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,240 funny when you did Stepsons a million years ago. 138 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,800 Oh, that was so you and Anne. I know. 139 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:28,320 Me and Anne. Who? 140 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:29,920 Your neighbor? Yeah, my best friend. 141 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,000 Crazy. But that's probably the best 142 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,320 place to see me 'cause I feel like I go up other random shows. 143 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,000 But like for now, that's and. Consistent Pretty recently, you 144 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:45,200 were the gay the gay jock who made Deborah Vance pass out the 145 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:46,440 gay. Jock, Thank you for making me 146 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,320 the gay, Jock. You're you're just the. 147 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,680 Gay guy Just the Gay just the. Gay guy, but you're you're 148 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:51,760 muscular. Sure. 149 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,000 Is that jock you would put me in Jock? 150 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,920 I don't know, Twunk. See, I was told I've graduated 151 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:58,720 past twunk into hunk, which I didn't realize. 152 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,000 Oh, hunk is. If hunk is on the table, then 153 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,800 yeah, hunk I. I didn't realize that was a term 154 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,440 though. I and I, I think that's also 155 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,760 terrible to like coin, like to take, to take on hunk, to be 156 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,480 like, yeah, I'm a hunk. Well, it's definitely not one of 157 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,840 the easier to you. You maybe can't say it yourself. 158 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:15,840 Someone has to say it. First. 159 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,280 Yeah, yeah. No, no. 160 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:18,000 I'm. Not. 161 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,160 Your words, not mine. I just used I'm just a twink. 162 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,120 I'm just a twink who started doing steroids. 163 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,520 How do you did you? No, not even steroids. 164 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,680 How do you feel about the categories that gay guys place 165 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,520 themselves in or are placed in? I mean, I think it's so 166 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:38,040 arbitrary because often times it's, I think you start first 167 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,040 from like almost a fetishized place of like I am into this 168 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,520 category. But then often times people are 169 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,880 people do not live up to that expectation of whatever they 170 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,160 are, the demon twink, the bear, the like Dom bear, whatever. 171 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,160 There's so many bears that I thought were going to top me and 172 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:53,720 then they wanted. To bottom. 173 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:55,240 They wanted me to top that. Yeah. 174 00:07:55,400 --> 00:08:00,200 And I'm also, I'm, I am, I guess subverting form is like a top 175 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:05,520 fronting a top presenting bottom, which is my own plight. 176 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:06,840 That's my own plight. Is it? 177 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,200 Has it been a? It is especially being out and 178 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,520 wanting to meet people out off the apps as like. 179 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,320 And they see you. And they go, oh. 180 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,400 Yeah, it's all the, it's all the like 5-6 days looking up at me 181 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,560 being like. He could wreck me. 182 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,360 It's like you know what they the towel is the shoulder. 183 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:21,600 The shoulders will start to just like. 184 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,840 Oh, like that cat? The cat about. 185 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:26,880 Yeah, and I am like I am. I'm not in. 186 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,400 Not your fantasy, I'm your sister. 187 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,000 I'm your sister. Do you? 188 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,960 What if they were looking at you like I want to get my step stool 189 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,280 and mount that? I'm open. 190 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,559 But you don't like it. It's not like I'm not seeking 191 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:38,919 that out, but I'm also not against it. 192 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,919 I think when I'm out it, I don't know how you are. 193 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:42,159 I don't know what your what is your type? 194 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,160 It's ever expanding, that's. That's beautiful. 195 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,800 You know, you get older, you go, oh, it's not all it's tracked up 196 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,680 to be. You lower your standards. 197 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:55,800 I mean, literally I, no, I just go like it's honestly a sign 198 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,360 that my mind I think is opening more than it's closing. 199 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,400 And I was like, yeah, let's give this. 200 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,080 Just as your hole. Just as the hole expands and 201 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,880 contracts. I have a doula for my butt hole. 202 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,920 Yeah, I just like, yeah, I'm like, let's, let's try it. 203 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:14,800 I would say below 57 it becomes a logistical problem. 204 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,920 Sure, and I think 5/8 and above, it's really all about mindset. 205 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,880 There have been 59 tops that have felt like they were 6-7. 206 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,360 Do you know what I? Mean. 207 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,720 Yeah, it is a lot of essence. Essence it's I always say like, 208 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,520 do you feel tall? Because they're also tall guys 209 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:31,800 that feel short, like you know what I mean? 210 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,480 Like I don't, I feel like I feel shorter than 6/4. 211 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:37,320 Peter Bottom. Exactly. 212 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,440 I feel I'm also, I'm like, I'm the, you know, golden fever 213 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,040 puppy that knocks things over because I think I'm still tiny. 214 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,840 Yeah. But the lap dog? 215 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,760 But crushes I've never like, oh, a bear, that's what I'm going 216 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,120 for. I'm also similar, like I'm not 217 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,840 looking for a specific category. I think the category can quickly 218 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:53,920 lump you in. But I do find it fascinating how 219 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,920 I guess like minded, like minded categorized people find each 220 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,680 other and they they can stick together. 221 00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:02,400 I know bears that sort of stay with their bears. 222 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,320 They understand the plight, yes, the plight of the very I almost. 223 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,800 Feel like gay guys. It's more about like, I don't 224 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,360 know if you feel this way. It's like groups of gay guys. 225 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,040 Often I look around and I'm like, yeah, you all probably 226 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,640 find each other subconsciously hot. 227 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,880 Maybe you've also said it to each other, but it's like you 228 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:17,680 are surrounding yourself with people that you find to be a 229 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,360 similar. Oh yeah, you're like, yeah. 230 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,120 Where I looked at my, I looked at my like a circle, and I was 231 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,760 like, you know what? In a different world, yeah. 232 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,040 My friends are beautiful. I'm like, I truly am platonic 233 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,680 with all of them. I don't know how you are with. 234 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,040 That's an. Interesting thing too, we. 235 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,040 Can talk about this 'cause I'm very much I have friends, 236 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,200 separate churches. You do not have genitalia. 237 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,520 If you're my, if you're like a sister, 'cause I'll immediately 238 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,280 I'll call you a sister. I think that's a good, that's a 239 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:43,480 good way to really make it clear. 240 00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:45,960 Yeah, next to a buddy. Hey, bud. 241 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:46,600 Hey. Bud. 242 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,240 Hey, sis. Yeah, hey, girl. 243 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,280 I I just, I'm like, I'd rather, it's more important to me that 244 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,200 you're my sister and not that we're bumping butts, Sure. 245 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,800 Or a Dick in my butt, even if they're you know, and I don't 246 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,160 know. It's complicated. 247 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,840 Of course there's this traction. You can I can eternal sunshine 248 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,280 my mind and just not think about it that way. 249 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:08,000 Yeah. I mean, I think if you actually 250 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,240 have a friend who that attraction that I do want to 251 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,640 butt butts keeps coming. Maybe that's something you 252 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,240 should explore though. Has that happened to you? 253 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,720 Not in OK in a way, but maybe this is to your point what you 254 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,480 just said. You don't want to risk like 255 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,240 you're like, my friendship with this person is more important 256 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,440 than like a failed exposure. 'Cause I don't know how, I don't 257 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,240 know your history, but like for me, finding gay friends is like 258 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,120 a significantly hard like gay guys I really connect with in 259 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,840 like a true like history way. That's not just like we're at 260 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,600 the same parties. We're like, hey girl, it's like 261 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,040 we're actually able to get dinner and like hang out and. 262 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,480 Talk. That's so much more important to 263 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,200 me. How has it been hard for you? 264 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:53,800 I mean. These guys try to fuck you. 265 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,080 Everyone's just trying to. Fuck no. 266 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,040 I think I'm very feminine in my connections. 267 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,640 I'm very, I feel, I, I think I've mostly been friends with 268 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,160 women my whole life. And so I think that. 269 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:07,480 A girl's gay. Feeling taken care of 270 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,200 emotionally and I also like that as my first instinct is to take 271 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,560 care and maybe that invites a lot of crazy energy on the 272 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:17,160 female side. Yeah, and coined the term harem 273 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,640 of psychos for just earlier time in my life. 274 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,680 My hop is what she calls it, but just. 275 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,080 Psychos does start with AP. It does start with AP, don't 276 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:28,600 forget that. Wow. 277 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,600 But I think I welcome a certain energy of people who would cross 278 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,320 boundaries on the on the. Oh, sure, sure, sure on the. 279 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,440 Female side, female side, yes. And then that of course 280 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,240 translates into the gay side as well. 281 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,080 But I had to learn how to set. Up friends try to hook up with 282 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,720 you. No, no, no, I'm saying just they 283 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,040 would just cross boundaries by taking advantage of me. 284 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,960 Oh, oh, gotta gotta gotta. I mean, there were girls in 285 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,200 college that would be mad when I, like, stopped making out with 286 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,040 them at parties, like drunkenly. Like I got into fights with a 287 00:12:58,040 --> 00:12:59,800 few girls. They were like, why won't you 288 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,760 make out with me tonight? I was like, 'cause I gay, 'cause 289 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:03,880 I'm gay. And you know this? 290 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,120 Yeah, this is don't take the crazy. 291 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,640 I just don't want to make out with you tonight. 292 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:11,920 Yeah, or technically ever. Technically ever, but sometimes 293 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,840 it this was fun. Yeah, you have soft lips. 294 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:23,680 You go your way, I'll go my way. But gay guys, I think guys are 295 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:24,680 still guys. I don't know. 296 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:26,680 That's how I've gay guys are still guys. 297 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,200 And so I think a lot of times it can be hard to find the gay guys 298 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,320 that feel also like girls, gays or feminine in their connection. 299 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,800 Sure. I guess it's also like the guy 300 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,120 thing, it's like you have to like, that's like exposure 301 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,760 therapy and that you have to like be around the guys multiple 302 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,120 times in multiple settings and really, 'cause I'm sure you have 303 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,040 your walls up and like both people have to like lower their 304 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,520 walls and be like, we're not flirting. 305 00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:56,360 This is not sexual, you know. Yes, and I also my my own silly 306 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,000 little trauma. I had like a pretty intense like 307 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,400 best friend break up in college with like my gay best friend. 308 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,760 Over what can you say? It wasn't even like I like this 309 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,160 happened. It was just like, it was one of 310 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,480 those things of like, we just had this like massive falling 311 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,720 apart that like really shattered, like really shattered 312 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,920 me. And I think it took me a long 313 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,960 time to like, trust gay guys again, 'cause it, 'cause he at 314 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,400 that time was like the closest gay friend I'd ever closest 315 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,560 friend I'd ever had in that it was also very toxic. 316 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,360 And it wasn't one thing. It was like overtime. 317 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,640 It was overtime. We, I mean, it was also college. 318 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:28,840 We were getting drunk all the time. 319 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:35,800 That's such a, that's such a of course and you're trauma and 320 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,960 psychosis. You're spending the night. 321 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,000 You're doing everything. We're together. 322 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,920 I mean, it was like all of those things and like we both moved 323 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,280 out here the same time at post college. 324 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,480 And I think it was just this moment of he was like these 325 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,680 people don't necessarily want to be friends with you out here. 326 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,960 And if you make me choose between you and them, I'm going 327 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,680 to choose them. And so I moved out here being 328 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,560 like, OK, well, he doesn't be friends with me. 329 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,000 These people don't be friends with me. 330 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,000 I guess I'm on my own. Which actually was free. 331 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,800 It, it, it freed me of like, I'm needing to stay in my college 332 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,520 bubble because I think a lot of people can just stay in their 333 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,320 little bubbles moving to a big city. 334 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,520 So it freed me to find my own tribe elsewhere. 335 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,040 But like it I my walls were so closed off in so many ways. 336 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,480 I'm doing that again. No, even though I wanted it so 337 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,200 desperately. I was, I lived in Beverly Hills 338 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,560 for the first three years, like 20 minutes walking from Wijo. 339 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,720 So like I was going there, but I would just like I was so in my 340 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,600 head about making that connection again and then being 341 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,680 let down or being hurt the same way. 342 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,600 On top of them being so desperate for someone to like, 343 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,680 love me and want to taught me. In that order. 344 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,880 In that order. Love and then top, top and then 345 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:46,000 love I. Mean is there? 346 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:47,960 Is there a difference? The top is to love. 347 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,240 For those glorious 6 1/2 minutes. 348 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,840 But I I basically. Yeah. 349 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,720 So I think like I finally I I have finally accumulated, I 350 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,960 think the like the gay group I've always wanted out here. 351 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:01,680 Oh, good. I know. 352 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,120 Which has also been nice to come back. 353 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,240 I I was in New York and I had such a great time and I met so 354 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,600 many wonderful gay guys there. But like I kept on missing my. 355 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:09,880 Your. Crew. 356 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,640 My girl's here. I kept on missing them. 357 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,480 We just did a Joshua Tree trip where we did acid together and 358 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,080 we dressed up as Real Housewives of Salt Lake City 1. 359 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,440 Night on acid? No, no, that would. 360 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:21,920 That would be too. Scary. 361 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,480 This was that was the next night where we just did mushrooms. 362 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,320 But I, I kind of was like, wow, I made it. 363 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,440 I feel like I'm 31 and I, I always looked up as like a 22 364 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:32,960 year old. I looked up to like the 30 year 365 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,040 olds who had their crew and I was like, wow, 22 year old me. 366 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,680 I think would be really that would be really happy right now 367 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,360 to be like, oh, he, he did it. He found that. 368 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,560 Beautiful it. Is beautiful and we didn't. 369 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,880 And then we didn't fuck. There was no orgy. 370 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,040 Not this time. I'm not gonna. 371 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,040 Yeah, no, that's great. OK, Beautiful. 372 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:52,440 Check in. We'll come back to that. 373 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:53,640 Great. Introduction I. 374 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,600 Don't I think are are you happy user 928649312? 375 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,560 I don't know who it was but the comment. 376 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:02,720 Marsha. Yeah, I'm actually. 377 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,079 They're hopefully watching. Anyway, let's go back to the 378 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:07,480 beginning. This is a sex podcast about your 379 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,680 sexual journey. Do you remember your earliest 380 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,440 influences? Things that made you aware of 381 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,680 sex when you were like, younger? Yeah, I mean, this is going to 382 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,040 be a crazy story and I'm not into bestiality. 383 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:20,640 What a great, what a great intro. 384 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,400 But my first memory of like being aroused. 385 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,280 I don't know why I was watching the Scooby-doo movie, The live 386 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:28,920 action OK with. Len Descarte on. 387 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,400 That course, Sir Michelle Gellar. 388 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,120 Yeah, but it's not even Prince. Not Freddie Prince, not even 389 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,120 what's his name? Matthew Lillard. 390 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:36,720 Not even Matthew. Lillard, it's Scooby-doo. 391 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,680 Not even scooby-doo it was. I don't know how familiar you 392 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:41,960 are with the plot. One of the monsters. 393 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:47,200 It was Scrappy Doo, and Scrappy Doo starts sucking up the souls 394 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,640 of all the people and gets buff. It was the sequence of him 395 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,320 getting buff. That you were like, oh. 396 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,480 That literally like gave me my, it's like the earliest arousal I 397 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,920 remember as a child. And I think it had something to 398 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,720 do with the like he became so muscular and it was the like the 399 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,680 process of becoming, I think. I don't know why I was attracted 400 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,080 to that. I also, I think a lot of gay 401 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,400 guys, gay kids were fascinated and infatuated with like 402 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:16,120 transformation sequences. I was like, like Power Ranger, 403 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:17,200 like whatever. They would morph. 404 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,880 I would watch like Sailor Moon, the Sailor Moon transformations 405 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,440 over and over again. I was so obsessed with the like 406 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,280 sequence of transformation. I think it's a subconscious 407 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,200 thing, of course. Wow I've no one's said that to 408 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,440 me before but I love that. But as a theory. 409 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,640 I think it was the becoming the becoming muscular, the becoming 410 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,960 vascular. And also like, fabulous, it's 411 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,960 like magic. It is. 412 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,040 It's wish fulfillment too. And I think many twinks who 413 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,000 start their peptides and their steroids, they literally they, 414 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,920 they go from scrappy dude to King Kong big, scrappy big. 415 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:50,920 Scrappy. Don't. 416 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,040 Scrappy. Don't Scrappy Nasty. 417 00:18:56,120 --> 00:19:00,320 My actually, you jogged a memory for me, one of my and we're very 418 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,520 far apart in age, but the mass. Not that far. 419 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,320 I'm 40. Oh, you look amazing. 420 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,560 Thank you The Mask, which is the Jim Carrey movie. 421 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:09,560 What's that? Who's he? 422 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,440 Okay, okay, so you're aware kind of? 423 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,120 I love the. Mask the bad guy, Yes, when he 424 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:19,240 had like the chiseled jaw like him as a thing. 425 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,280 And puts on when he puts on the. Yeah, I know. 426 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:23,960 That after, yeah, that. Chisel. 427 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,880 Little. Hot squid wordy. 428 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,240 Yes, yes, God, he was hot as a bad guy too. 429 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,760 He was which Why are we? Why are we something to the bad 430 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,480 boys? It's not just us. 431 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,000 OK, I'm trying to think from scribe because we're not we 432 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:43,240 can't just focus on scribe PD. When I like I would say I then I 433 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,360 think I repressed a lot of it. I did like, I think until like I 434 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:50,040 started watching porn and like the porn I started watching 435 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,320 should have been the dead giveaway 'cause I would only 436 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,840 watch straight porn with like truly. 437 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,520 And they must have been prosthetic monster cocks. 438 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,480 Like I'm talking like there's this one video I remember where 439 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,920 it's these two guys and it listed them as like 13 inch 440 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,840 penises. And this girl was like stroking 441 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,200 both of them. And like of course I was like, 442 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,840 yeah, the girl stroking them, but I was, she was like 443 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:12,920 invisible. She was truly. 444 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:18,200 You just saw like yeah, 2 Dicks. Like I saw 2 Dicks, I mean, and 445 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,840 so that's what I and then I found 2 Dick porn, which is I 446 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,080 maybe there's just one porn star who did this, but it was a guy 447 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,240 with two penises fucking both holes of a woman. 448 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,680 And I would I would go between the monster cock video and the 449 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,400 two Dick videos. So I guess it was a 2 to one 450 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:37,200 ratio thing. It was. 451 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:39,080 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. 452 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,440 Yeah, and I that that and I that's how I justified the like 453 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,200 straight. Sure. 454 00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:45,640 Like I'm watching. I love porn. 455 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,000 I love porn. I was a late bloomer too. 456 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,080 Like I didn't go trans. I didn't go, I didn't transition 457 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:56,280 this time until like starting freshman year of of high school. 458 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,160 When did you know though, that you were attracted to boys? 459 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:03,680 I mean, I probably knew then, but I just wouldn't. 460 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,600 Freshman year. I mean 8th grade I would say 461 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,000 when I really started but like I was masturbating and shooting 462 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,320 blanks. I wasn't even coming yet. 463 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:10,720 I. Didn't say. 464 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,080 Do you remember your first orgasm? 465 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:21,440 I remember being in the shower wanting so hard to come and I 466 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,320 climaxed but nothing came out. But did you feel good? 467 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,720 Did was it that? Is literally what it felt like. 468 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,680 It felt good, but I also was like, but I also was like 469 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,120 psychosomatic. I want to see something. 470 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:35,560 I was like, did I just. I think I just came because 471 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,400 also, like, I don't know how you were with boys and middle 472 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,080 school, but like, I was so desperate to be a part of the 473 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,680 like one of the boys. In the chat. 474 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,080 In the chat and so we were talking about, we were talking 475 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,040 about corn, we were talking about corn and studying, which 476 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,480 is what we called masturbating. Oh wow. 477 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:53,720 Maybe like, did you study last night? 478 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,160 Did you do your homework? You guys are brilliant for 8th 479 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,000 graders, you're brilliant. But we would like, we would 480 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,920 like, we would play truth or dare if one person wouldn't have 481 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,040 to go up. Like, we would all be like 482 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,480 watching a video and then going up and one person would go 483 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:09,480 upstairs and, like, jerk off in in theory, yeah, I never got 484 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,600 called up. Oh, I never got. 485 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,000 Called. You're never got called you up. 486 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,440 You're looking for something that looks like calm. 487 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:20,200 You're like. But so that weird, that's that 488 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,640 weird time where it's homoerotic and it's exploratory, but like 489 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,240 no one's really saying the thing. 490 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,320 Wow, what it is. And there's Okie Cookie, which 491 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,000 we never. I was unfortunately never in the 492 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,520 cool enough group to play Okie Cookie. 493 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,480 You're like, but I heard slow as possible. 494 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,360 You're like, Oh no, don't beat me. 495 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:39,880 Oh no, I don't want to eat this. Not this delicious frosted chips 496 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,680 Ahoy, you know. But we never, we never got my, 497 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,160 my, my friends. My friends never got there. 498 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,520 But there was. Cookie. 499 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,240 How do you spell cookie? How do I spell cookie? 500 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,400 Cookie cookie cookie. Didn't you say cookie Cookie? 501 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,880 Yeah, Okie cookie. Okie cookie. 502 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,960 I guess O OK, IE OK, I guess that's how you spell it. 503 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:01,080 Sure. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's 504 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:02,520 probably. Going to be the episode title, 505 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:03,240 that's why I asked. It could. 506 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,400 It could be regional too. It could be regional. 507 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:06,600 I'm from Chicago. Sure. 508 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:07,880 OK, Deep dish. Deep. 509 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:13,640 Dish deep dish is also a really good wait doing with a pizza. 510 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,120 Doing with a pizza. I'm just saying that's a good 511 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:18,840 idea for middle school. Boys shouldn't be talking. 512 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,960 About jerk on a jerk on a pizza. Yeah, deep. 513 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,840 Calling it deep dish. That's a lot. 514 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,880 That's a lot. Deep Dick. 515 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,560 Y'all do you like deep dish pizza? 516 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:28,480 I just. Kind of, yeah. 517 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,040 I look I'm I'm of the Tavern style. 518 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,280 Talk us through that. It's just thin crust. 519 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,200 It's like crackery thin, but it's not New York. 520 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,160 Style. Is Saint Louis, Oh I've had emos 521 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,120 emos. It's did you like it? 522 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,760 Sorry, sorry to my cousins and my aunt and uncle too. 523 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,360 That's. The cheese. 524 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,320 It's a no. That's like a really, It's a 525 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,360 regional, like, no, your palate. Like yeah, it sucks. 526 00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:55,520 Like sucks to it, deforms to it. It's like a regional deformity 527 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,000 to appreciate that kind of what is it? 528 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,440 It's the most artificial cheese. No, it's just the cheese hybrid. 529 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:05,720 What's it called? Proval. 530 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,360 It's proval. It's provolone and mozzarella. 531 00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:09,520 I think it's not. Right, it's not. 532 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,040 It's a cross breed. It's not. 533 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,160 It's not godly. Well, bitch, welcome to hell. 534 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,600 I ate it. I ate it and I didn't love it. 535 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,040 I liked the crust. I like the crockery, thin crust 536 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,040 and the sauce. But then I got to the cheese and 537 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,440 I was like, this isn't, this isn't. 538 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,800 Damn, OK, that's more for me. But I like deep dish. 539 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,760 I learned I used to really dislike it. 540 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,680 It's it's kind of crazy. It's a pie. 541 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,440 It is pie. It's just savory pie. 542 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:37,240 I will be brave and say I thought deep dish was like that 543 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,880 much dough. I thought we were looking at 544 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,880 like a fat thing of dough within the sauce on top. 545 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,000 I was. Like actually still thin. 546 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,560 It's pretty thin. Thin dough. 547 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,480 It's got like a thick back like. It does have baby got back. 548 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,080 She's got a, she's got big back. She's a big back. 549 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,440 But for me, I think it was I couldn't get past the like sauce 550 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,040 on top, which now sauce is my favorite part of pizza. 551 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,200 I do like sauce. But I think for a while I didn't 552 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,960 like vegetables of any kind, like tomato. 553 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,240 Yeah. So I just was like I looked at. 554 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,920 That that's like. I was like, no, that's that's a 555 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,440 salad. Yeah, I'm not touching that. 556 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,720 So I always got this, the thin, thin, thin Tavern style. 557 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,040 And then it's how it's cut, which is the square cut. 558 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:18,080 Yeah, that's Tavern. Oh, OK, That's also Saint Louis, 559 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:19,840 Yeah. Midwest. 560 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:22,080 So. Cookies. 561 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:24,840 Yeah, so. Yeah, you were shooting blanks. 562 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,840 I was shoot. I was shooting blanks. 563 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,800 Thinking about boys, but not really. 564 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,160 It was, it was I was so good at convincing myself that it wasn't 565 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,400 me thinking about boys, that I was like, 'cause I was like, no, 566 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,480 'cause the girl's there. I was like, I know it's the girl 567 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,960 servicing them. Yeah, it was that. 568 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,200 It was like said she was doing. That I'm not her to those. 569 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,840 Giant beautiful Dicks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 570 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,200 I and I'm definitely not her with those long beautiful 571 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,360 extensions. And those big old titties. 572 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:59,520 Big old titties, I mean. Was the vibe of gay negative in 573 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,280 where you were growing? No, I grew up in the most 574 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,000 liberal bubble. I might my my parents best 575 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,760 friends were gay guys like I my they're like my second parents. 576 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,000 Looking back, were they hot? They were hot when they were 577 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,520 younger. Like there are pictures of them 578 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,440 and like I kind of look like one of them, OK. 579 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:18,720 So sadly, you think you're pretty. 580 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,360 Not we're not going to take it down, but but like he they were 581 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:24,160 very hot. They were like they met they met 582 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,440 literally the summer before the AIDS crisis. 583 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,440 Damn they their love. They've been together over down. 584 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,160 They've been together almost 50 years and they met this they 585 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,400 they literally met before the summer of the AIDS crisis and 586 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,400 like saved each other basically with their love. 587 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,800 It is the Yeah, they met at a leather bar, The Ramrod, which 588 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,680 is now a Jamba Juice. No. 589 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,560 Yeah, I remember Craig took me to New York and, like, walked me 590 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,040 by where they met, which is not a jam. 591 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,840 I just remember so clearly it was a Jamba Juice. 592 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,760 I was like, wow, that's so sad. That's crazy that. 593 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,160 RIP the ramrod. Bears used to come in there. 594 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,320 I know, but like Dushko was like and it's kind of and to back to 595 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,800 the hype thing, it's like it's kind of beautiful because Craig 596 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:10,080 tall bottom Dushko maybe he's 5857 top, like big, like he 597 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,960 bald, but like hairy. He used to be like beard, like 598 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,960 muscular little top. Wow, yeah. 599 00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:21,280 Good for him. So, so like it was almost so 600 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,720 normalized, Gay was almost so normalized for me that it's like 601 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,480 I never had a conversation that it could be what? 602 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,600 Happened. Because it was just like, yeah, 603 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,960 it was, I was around them. I was around them and said, but 604 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,800 still the default is straight. So I just like I, but no one was 605 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,520 like, hey, you could be that. And you don't know, 'cause your 606 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,240 brain is like, is this what other people are feeling when 607 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,320 they watch this video? They're like, excited, like. 608 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,400 Everyone's watching this, everyone's into all of it. 609 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,360 Double dicked. Everyone's into all of it, 610 00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:48,440 right? We're all into all. 611 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,000 We're all watching all. Of it. 612 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,240 No other guys now. 'Cause I would try to watch the 613 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,000 lesbian stuff and I just was like, well, no, this isn't 614 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,880 straight because there's no Dick. 615 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,360 You're like, this is gay. This is gay. 616 00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,400 I'm not gay. I'm not gay. 617 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,240 So freshman year, so you're shooting blanks my. 618 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,000 My freshman year I started watching gay. 619 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:07,920 Then I started. I switched. 620 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,480 OK, now we're getting somewhere. Finally. 621 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,000 Do you remember your first orgasm with another person or 622 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,480 your first hook up with another person? 623 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,040 Well God I I had a girlfriend all of high school so I know 624 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,320 even. When you were watching gay porn. 625 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:23,680 So that's how I convinced myself. 626 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,800 I said well I'm getting vagina with her so I can watch. 627 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,200 She had sex. Gay porn. 628 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,400 But that wasn't until senior year. 629 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,760 OK, high school. But we we built up to sex. 630 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,080 Wow, yes. So was it when you guys hooked 631 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,040 up, were you just like, really getting through it, Like 632 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,400 grinning and burying it? It was the, I would say like the 633 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,280 hardest mental exercise of that because I'm not one of those. 634 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,600 I don't know if you are, I'm, I'm not one of those gay guys 635 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,440 that can get hard for anyone. No, my Dick is like a lie 636 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,720 detector. Test same litmus. 637 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:55,040 I'm like, we're not into this. Like her first hand job for me 638 00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:00,640 was we were watching the Golden Globes next to my autistic twin 639 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,640 and she just like started stroking under a blanket. 640 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,640 You're kidding. And I had to excuse myself and 641 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,080 I'll be honest, I pretended, I pretended to come in the 642 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,080 bathroom and I went back and told her that I finished in the 643 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,600 bathroom because I was like, I can't do it next to I can't do 644 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,080 it next to Sam. And. 645 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,800 Then I told my friends the next day and they were like, what? 646 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,920 No, my, my, they're they were theater boys. 647 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,280 So. But I guess they said what? 648 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,800 No way. But they. 649 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:31,440 Yeah. So I like I kind of built this 650 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:32,960 Laura that that was like the first time I. 651 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,040 Is your twin identical or fraternal? 652 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,600 Fraternal. And then are they gay or 653 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,560 straight? He is I would say straight but 654 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,560 like I think his own neurodivergence has limited his 655 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,040 sexual. Got it, got it, got it, got it, 656 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:46,440 got it. Got. 657 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:47,880 It got it, really. Got it. 658 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,240 Date early. Yeah, it doesn't really explore 659 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,520 there, but I think he wants to be with a a woman. 660 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,960 Gotcha, but. Wow. 661 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,760 So you went in, so you had this like cool story. 662 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,240 But nothing happened. Right. 663 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,080 But also it made you look really like. 664 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,000 I looked hardcore. Yeah, you did. 665 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,080 But then of course my friends laughed me pretty quickly 666 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,440 because I'm stalling for a long time and by senior and by senior 667 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,160 year I kind of was like I was out of excuses. 668 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:13,200 So I. Had to get off the pod. 669 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,600 I got surgery my freshman year on my penis, which I was able to 670 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,640 milk for a long time. I, that's what. 671 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:21,720 She said. Come on. 672 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:23,960 And I wish she didn't. Can you say what? 673 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,760 Yeah, it was called a varicocele. 674 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,400 So I had basically what women have in their legs, the varicose 675 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,200 veins, the old women. I had that in my balls. 676 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,240 Oh yeah. So I always say the scales of 677 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,720 justice just were like unbalanced. 678 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,360 Like one of my balls just looked like that. 679 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,320 And so a doctor was like, hey, 'cause you're going to want to 680 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,280 have kids later with your wife. You this couldn't it's. 681 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,080 So true twin. You're going to this could 682 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,200 affect your fertility. So we're going to go in there 683 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,040 and we're just going to like tie them up and suck them up and 684 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,200 make it normal. And that happened in my freshman 685 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,960 year and like I was able to, I was I, she would be like, should 686 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,880 we go for a drive, which always meant let's go hook up and I 687 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,320 would send Olivia would be like, I don't know, my, it's kind of 688 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,760 hurts today. My very close my very close 689 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,000 vein. Needs you to be very far, very 690 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,720 far from me. But I, I, I was able to make it 691 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,120 until senior year basically. And I'll say I was like really 692 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,240 fine going down on her because I was like, as long as the 693 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,760 intention's not on me, I'm a giver. 694 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,400 OK, noted. Give her. 695 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,520 Give her bottom. But like as long as the 696 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:29,840 attention wasn't on me I was fine. 697 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,840 But like what? I just like I could not come. 698 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,480 I really just like couldn't. It took everything in me to like 699 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,800 find come True Blood was a very to. 700 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,080 Find come to. Find to come within me True 701 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,800 Blood was I think a huge like I would always try be trying to 702 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,000 think of True Blood which. Character Oh, Ryan Quanton. 703 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,200 Ryan Quanton. He was cut from stone. 704 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,320 Jason Stackhouse And then I remember reading that he just 705 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,000 like worked out outside. Like he didn't go to the gym. 706 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,200 He just like, climbed rocks and like. 707 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,600 What happened to him? Where did he go? 708 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:01,560 What? Happened to him. 709 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,760 And I mean, look Alexander Skarsgard too. 710 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,000 Also, what's his face of Sofia Virgara? 711 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,040 I mean really, honestly, to be honest, him all the way. 712 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:20,640 Joe Manchin, That's not it either. 713 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,000 Joe Manganiello. Maybe. 714 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,400 You're beautiful. There's no way of knowing. 715 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,760 And then the porn star. Do you know who this is? 716 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,280 Leo. Leo Giamatti I. 717 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,160 Don't think so. Are they a porn star in real 718 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:32,840 life? Yes, he was a porn star. 719 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,160 And he got to be a werewolf or no? 720 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,320 No, this is not on the show. This. 721 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,440 Was just the porn star just. Think of like he had like a he 722 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,320 was like Abu. I have to show you. 723 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,280 Maybe I'll recognize him. Beautiful like 10 inch Dick. 724 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,120 So you are still it sounds like a size queen. 725 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,600 Yes. You like a big old? 726 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,240 I need that, Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm 64. 727 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,920 I'm like. You got a lot of space to fill. 728 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,480 I literally think it is truly just ergonomical. 729 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,960 Like to to find the spot it just needs to go. 730 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,960 You need to go a little bit. You need to move some boxes out 731 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:03,360 of the way. It's. 732 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,600 Just what I it's, it's the gayest thing in the world. 733 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,600 But like that is what I like. No, it's fine. 734 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,200 I know how. Wait, how tall are you for the 735 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,720 people watching? 6465. 6465 in. 736 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,240 Between there. Wow and. 737 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,440 Leo Giamatti was like, I think he was like 63. 738 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,480 Have you ever hooked up with a porn star? 739 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,560 Unbeknownst to me, yes. Oh, and you found out in the 740 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,360 exit interview. No, I found out watching porn. 741 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,240 I was like, oh, I remember him. He was real. 742 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,760 He fucked me like a porn star. Does this guy look familiar? 743 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,040 No. Really. 744 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,120 And you're bottom too, right? Or verse what? 745 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,080 Do you I'm I've been in my side era for a bit. 746 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,800 OK, but I think God didn't make me a bottom. 747 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,680 But I'm also a squirmy bottom like a big old Dick. 748 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,320 Kind of freaks me out. Really. 749 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,920 I'd much rather like an average Dick so he can just go to town. 750 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,960 Wow. That's so fascinating to me, 751 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,480 'cause like it's, I'm not loose down there by any means. 752 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,000 But like a average feels like a finger probably in there. 753 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,600 It like a like. A little like, almost like 754 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,080 annoying. You're like, what is it? 755 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:05,760 What's going on? I. 756 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,320 Can sometimes like hurt honestly. 757 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,239 Interesting. OK. 758 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,800 And I also have, and so many big Dick guys have done this to me 759 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,199 where they're like, I swear it's like it's easier to take a big 760 00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:18,880 Dick once you just like get through like the big, you know 761 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,560 what I mean? And maybe there is something to 762 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,400 it. No, I mean I lost my virginity 763 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,840 to like a nine inch Dick off of Craigslist. 764 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,000 Oh, my. Thank you for getting us back on 765 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:29,840 track. Yeah. 766 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,199 Wait, Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 767 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:33,440 That was the most painful experience. 768 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,440 Before we get to that moment, unless it's moments after. 769 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,880 How old were you? Were you still dating the 770 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,960 girlfriend? No, this was like, so this, this 771 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,239 journey happened. We broke up, we had basically, 772 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,199 so we, it LED up to us finally losing our virginities to each 773 00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:49,080 other. And that was finally the moment 774 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,800 where I was like and like, and throughout high school I was on 775 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,040 like gay teen, like I was on chat rooms and stuff. 776 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,239 Like I was like exploring a bit, but like. 777 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,760 Did you have gay.com or XY or Manhunt or? 778 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:03,000 But like 321 gay teen chat. No, no, I don't know. 779 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,640 That's what I would use, which I who the fuck knows. 780 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,160 I think it was mostly full of catfishes. 781 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:07,960 Great. What? 782 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,200 What's changed? Tell me what's changed. 783 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,080 Truly nothing. Yeah. 784 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,560 And then senior year, I had ran out of excuses. 785 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,160 We finally, like lost our virginities to each other. 786 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,560 And I just it was so hard just into I just like it was. 787 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,080 It took so much out of me. There's like, I don't think I 788 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,920 can do that again. I love her so much. 789 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,240 Like I was like, I wish I could. I wish it could be easy, but 790 00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:29,000 it's not. You Nutter and you're like, that 791 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,640 took my entire life worse. I mean, I'm I'm not getting. 792 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,120 I had to like. I just always get freaked out 793 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,200 that I didn't hit record. We'll take the moment because I 794 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,200 my fly's been down. Oh my, run to the YouTube you 795 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,200 might have caught. US. 796 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,120 Of Mike's uneven balls. They're even now. 797 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,280 I'll be OK, I'll show you. I'll show you later. 798 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,240 But they're even now. So you're just like, this is it? 799 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:54,640 Took me 45 minutes to get hard. I have one of my songs is about 800 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:55,040 this. You're like. 801 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,080 Stop watching me. Literally she was like can I 802 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,640 help? And I literally said no. 803 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,160 You're just turning. Around I had to turn around from 804 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:06,080 her and like try to get hard and finally I was able to and it 805 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,360 lasted 2 minutes, 'cause look, God, God built it correct. 806 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,920 It does feel good. It feels great down there. 807 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,520 It's like a full slip and slide. It's awesome. 808 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,400 But the minute it ended I was like, I can never do that again. 809 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,600 Did you say that out loud? I wish, I wish I just did in 810 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,920 that moment, but no, I I had to, for some reason, wait until the 811 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:26,560 midnight premiere of Hunger Games. 812 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,440 The first Hunger Games. I didn't invite her, which is 813 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,280 the this is the worst. This is like the worst thing I 814 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,800 ever did at the time was I invited all my friends to a 815 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,080 midnight premiere of Hunger Games at the Cinemark in 816 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,960 Evanston. And I did not include my 817 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,160 girlfriend. And she was like, why didn't you 818 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,160 invite me? And I was, and I, I sure I came 819 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,720 up with some bad excuse. And then my friends were like, 820 00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:50,080 Mike, if you're like, if you want to end this and you're not 821 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,960 happy, like you should just like RIP the Band-Aid off. 822 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,440 And so I, they took me into the emergency staircase, made me 823 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,880 call her on speakerphone and suggest that we go on a break. 824 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,760 And then a week later we broke up. 825 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,960 Wow. But a week after that, her best 826 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,280 friend all of high school, the opposite of me, a like wonderful 827 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,320 short king named John Katz professor's love to her and they 828 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,560 are now married with you're kidding second child on the way. 829 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,560 Oh, I love that. No, it's beautiful. 830 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,040 I love that. It's beautiful and it freed me 831 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,880 of like, honestly, it freed me. You're like, I did that. 832 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:26,520 Why? I was just like, you know what, 833 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,760 you ended up where you needed to be and I ended up where I needed 834 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,120 to be. And like when I finally came out 835 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,840 to her, I saw the, I saw it all click in the place where she was 836 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,600 like, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God. 837 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,280 Like it was never her. It was always me. 838 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:37,600 It was never her. She's perfect. 839 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,440 It was just always my own shit. So then I'm like, because this 840 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,760 is like beginning of grinder. So it's like it was like 841 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,240 Craigslist and Grinder at the same time. 842 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,680 And Craigslist. I posted ads. 843 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,560 Yeah, no, I did too. I posted ads with the headlines 844 00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:59,200 Gay teen bottom. Gay virgin bottom. 845 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,920 You broke an. Athletic top to like pop cherry. 846 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,960 This was like all in my just my headline full on like face 847 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,400 picture just. Like no, I should be a ghost. 848 00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:15,560 Oh I should be a ghost. Went over to a guy's place who 849 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,560 turned out to be like a 38 year old father and yeah, ginormous 850 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:21,160 penis. Did he? 851 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,840 Did he represent himself accurately when he sent? 852 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,200 He did luckily cause also that could have easily been like a 853 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:27,960 murder. Easy. 854 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,960 Door click close. No one knew where I was on the 855 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,080 ground. No one knew where I was going. 856 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,120 I took my family's minivan like no one knew where I was going. 857 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,120 Was it far? No, it's like 20 minutes away. 858 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,720 But I was like my obviously heart, Oh my God, pounding. 859 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,040 Do you still get do you still hook up? 860 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,840 I did. And do you still get nervous a 861 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,200 little bit? At this point I just get no. 862 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:47,720 I don't even get nervous. I'm just like the. 863 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,640 I noticed my heart rate going up. 864 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,880 If I'm real, if I'm like, this is like, if I'm really into them 865 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,800 and I'm like really hopeful that it's as good as oh. 866 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:00,360 OK, you know, mine just like generalized anxiety, it's like 867 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,880 pop up. I'm like, Oh my God, we're this 868 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,160 is about this is going to happen. 869 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:05,760 They're on their way. This is going to happen. 870 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,240 Once again, if I'm really excited, yes. 871 00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:10,000 But if it's just kind of like, OK, let's get this over with, 872 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,600 let's see it, and then I'd love to be pleasantly surprised. 873 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,360 Sure, but I've never been more nervous in my life. 874 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,400 And he took his pants. He pulled his pants down. 875 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,040 I mean it literally like this. But did you know? 876 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,320 Like this this but like thicker. Did you know? 877 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:25,720 Did you, had you seen a picture? Yeah, that's. 878 00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:27,280 What I was looking for I literally was like looking for 879 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,400 hung top. So you're had you already 880 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,880 explored your butt hole or did you instinctively know that you 881 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,360 needed? I did but only with my older 882 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,680 brothers Adidas sport colon bottle that was like cylindrical 883 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:40,680 and how to like a ball It had like a ball cap. 884 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,400 I'm going to tell you that was the scariest sentence to hear 885 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,120 someone embark on 'cause you went. 886 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,320 I did, but only with my older brother. 887 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,720 And I was like, still waiting for like, Oh my God, what his 888 00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:53,520 dildo? Like what's going on here? 889 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,440 Nope, his Adidas Sport Cologne bottle that he did not know I 890 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:57,880 used. So sorry, David. 891 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,200 You heard it here 1st and. I put it up my butt. 892 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,360 I would do that for years honestly, and it was like a good 893 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,480 starter size like. I bet it masked the smell too. 894 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,400 Beautifully, It's like, it was like a nice, like it was like 895 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,000 that big that that skinny. But of course, my junior year, I 896 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,000 remember I put it up, I was using it, took it out, cap was 897 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,480 gone, cap was gone. I remember sticking my finger up 898 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,720 there and I felt the cap and I of course pushed it up further 899 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,760 and I was like, this is I was still with my girlfriend. 900 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:31,960 I was like this, so I'm going to have to come out. 901 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,880 I was like, this is I was like that. 902 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:34,840 Was so scary. Yeah. 903 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,160 And then of course to Google. Anything medical related is 904 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,680 going to tell you you have cancer, you're going to die. 905 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,800 Yeah, be like, go to the emergency. 906 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,920 So they were like, you have glass inside you, you should go 907 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,800 to the emergency. It was a glass cap. 908 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,800 Because I mean, of course it was high quality. 909 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,040 My family's good taste. No, but it was like fully glass. 910 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,880 And I started, Lydia started sobbing, sobbing suddenly in the 911 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,680 bathroom. And I just was like, I'm going 912 00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:58,680 to die. This is how I'm going to die. 913 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,960 And I was like, I'm going to have to tell my mom I'm bleeding 914 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,520 out on the inside because I put my brother's Cologne bottle up 915 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,160 my butt. And luckily I waited to, I, I 916 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,880 read in one post that was like, let gravity see if you can like 917 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:15,400 squat like our ancestors and let gravity do its thing. 918 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,160 And so I literally, I, I remember squatting for like 2 919 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,200 1/2 hours. No. 920 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,640 Actually shaking and sobbing in the bathroom. 921 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,160 I didn't leave the bathroom and eventually it came out. 922 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,640 You're also so lucky there wasn't like an air suction 923 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,240 thing, do you know what I mean? Like. 924 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,080 Don't. Yes, yeah. 925 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,440 Terrifying. Also, I'm going to shame you a 926 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,200 little bit. How did you not think that like 927 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,240 the cap might pop off like? Desperate times, I guess, for 928 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,280 desperate measures. I feel like you should have gone 929 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,040 the other way. Cap down. 930 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,000 See, and that's that's why you're hosting a podcast and I'm 931 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:52,360 the guest. You're the brilliant. 932 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:52,840 Mind. Wait. 933 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,640 OK, so you go over this 38 year old. 934 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,360 Yes, that's the only size I've really had up there until then, 935 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,320 which was like maybe 5 inches, like 5 1/2 inches. 936 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,520 Feel like this ain't doing it? Of course not. 937 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,280 You should have sat on like a soda can or something. 938 00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:07,080 My God, did you, did you have like boys in middle school or 939 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:08,800 something that they would like? They would be like, yeah, my 940 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,520 Dick's like as thick as a Coke can. 941 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,880 No, I didn't get to in on that 'cause I did hang out with girls 942 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,920 and they didn't they, I think they knew I was an absolute 943 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,280 flaming homosexual from early age, so they never were like. 944 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,160 I think I was able to hide behind the theater like the 945 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:24,680 sweet theater. Theater boy. 946 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,880 Sure. Sort of like image. 947 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,480 I guess I did know actually one guy who was a year older than me 948 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,320 who was also in like a singing group with me. 949 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,280 He iconically had like a big thing, and so did my friend who 950 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:36,640 was a year younger. He was straight. 951 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,360 Yeah. Yeah. 952 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,360 We did a few of those who we knew were a big swing in, but 953 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,240 they were straight. And there's nothing you can do 954 00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:44,160 about that. You can try your hardest, but 955 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:45,240 there's nothing you can do about that. 956 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,880 OK. I remember he just kind of 957 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,920 started putting it in and I just remember like the most 958 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,800 beautiful, like Academy Award, like best actress, just. 959 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,600 Single. Tear down my cheek as like I'm 960 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,800 doggy style. Did he eat your butt? 961 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,560 No. That's sad, I didn't. 962 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:05,640 Eat my butt. But I also at that time, I don't 963 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:06,760 think I wanted that. You know what I mean? 964 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,040 I think that was like too much for me. 965 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,160 That's too gay. Weirdly, tongue and butt too 966 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,800 gay. Did you guys kiss? 967 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,800 Yes, you did kiss. But like, and he was very sweet 968 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,600 and gentle and of course, like, I think he knew how painful it 969 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,520 was for me. But like, I was just like, it's 970 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,520 fine, It's fine. But I kind of, I think a bit 971 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,240 masochistically liked it. Yeah, I think I liked it. 972 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,640 And then I was hooking up so infrequently over the next few 973 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,120 years that like it would be like every 4-5 months that I think 974 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,880 like my whole would just shrink. And so it was like every time it 975 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,320 felt like the first time, wow, it's so beautiful. 976 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,120 But I would seek out like. Hung tops. 977 00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:46,440 Ginormo Dicks, yeah. So you're going through, you're 978 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,160 going, all these Craigslist things are coming across your 979 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,600 desk. And did the next headline read 980 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:58,640 like newly freshly popped cherry? 981 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,960 No, from there I transitioned to Grinder fully and then I met my 982 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,760 first like fuck buddy in Chicago and then basically from him. 983 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,880 He was clearly a like married father with a child that I just 984 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,240 was like first time I hooked up was in a pool shed of like his 985 00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:16,800 neighbors crazy. I just was like you know what, 986 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,040 I'm not asking questions be like he like fucked me on a pool 987 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:21,760 floatie. I'm just like you know what, 988 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,200 don't need to know. Second time we hooked up he had 989 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,600 me over at his place. Saw like little uggs. 990 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,560 Toys. Like little uggs I I saw like 991 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,160 peplum flares like like kicking out of. 992 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,240 His closet. It's like a like a dress, like a 993 00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:38,040 peplum flare on a dress. I just was like a woman lives 994 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:42,000 here too and a child and they must have not been home. 995 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,400 But I just was like, I'm the other woman, which I guess is 996 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,000 kind of hot, but I felt a little bad. 997 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,120 Was he hot? At the time he was like the 998 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,000 hottest man in the world. He still, he still texts me. 999 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,800 Happy New Year. Oh wow, just happy new year 1000 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:53,160 married. Who knows? 1001 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:54,320 I don't. Even remember what he. 1002 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,400 Looks like. Damn. 1003 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,720 But like, I remember at the time being like, I can't believe he's 1004 00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:01,880 into me. I know that's how it felt like 1005 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,520 looking back, he probably was fine looking. 1006 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,520 Yeah, and you were as well. Probably cute. 1007 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,280 Sure, I was just like a cute. I was like a cute tall noodle at 1008 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:10,520 the time. This was like before I started 1009 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:11,960 working out or anything. So I was just like. 1010 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,480 I looked, I looked. I want to say it looks like your 1011 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,600 light stands. That was my exact thought. 1012 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,280 That was my exact bite to type. OK, So this went on with with 1013 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:25,280 people every four or five months you'd get effed and the B yes. 1014 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,240 Did it ever start to get regular or when did you come out or had 1015 00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:30,400 you come out? I was, yes. 1016 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,280 I came out right after I broke up with my girlfriend. 1017 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,600 I. Was out at this time, but 1018 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,000 college is where I was like I thought I was going to get to 1019 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,320 college. I went to Syracuse and I thought 1020 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,400 I was going to get to college and meet my boyfriend and have 1021 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,480 my gay little wife and that literally never happened for me. 1022 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,840 So I kind of was just like, honestly, Syracuse really like I 1023 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,480 think warped my sense of self because it while there were gay 1024 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,280 guys there, it was kind of like the gay guys in the like musical 1025 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,400 theater Conservatory who were like gay, gay. 1026 00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,560 And then the rest of the campus, which I was a part of kind of 1027 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,520 was like a smaller subset of gay guys than I think I expected. 1028 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,200 And then and then the grinder of course was ruled by the DL 1029 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,600 torsos primarily the like closeted. 1030 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,680 Fry guys, of course. I hoped there was a bunch of. 1031 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,200 Those, Oh my God, they're my kryptonite at the time. 1032 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,120 No longer my kryptonite, but my kryptonite at the time did. 1033 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:19,760 You get fucked by a bunch of them. 1034 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,840 A few of them and like, but I remember like it really first 1035 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,560 year especially, I was wearing like a big tweed jacket and bow 1036 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,680 ties. So it's like peak Kurt Hummel, 1037 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,960 like bow ties and ties every day. 1038 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,000 And like I would get messages from guys being like, Oh, you're 1039 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,200 the, you're the gay guy who wears the trench coat. 1040 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,560 Like I would literally like I was getting shamed for my, I 1041 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,920 won't even say femininity, but my flair, my personal like my 1042 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:48,360 personalized sense of self that I quickly was like, Oh, who I am 1043 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,200 is not attractive. I guess I must change that. 1044 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,120 And now you're on a journey of being attractive to people based 1045 00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,600 on like their their desires. Fully, I mean, it was just like, 1046 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,800 how can I, how can I slowly become as like mask presenting 1047 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,280 as I think I, I think a lot of gay guys go on this journey of 1048 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,480 how can I? Well, it's celebrated so much 1049 00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,400 masculinity both by straights and gays is celebrated. 1050 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,320 Exactly, unless it's a woman who's masculine. 1051 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,560 Oh my God. Then it's hey, bad, bad, bad, 1052 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,040 bad, bad, bad. Bad, but there's couldn't be 1053 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,800 anything worse. But I remember hooking up with 1054 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,760 frat guys who just kind of fat. I mean, couldn't care if I lived 1055 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,920 or died, but I kind of loved that. 1056 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,840 I did kind of love it. Well, it was like it. 1057 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,160 It will always be a thing. I think of like a straight guy 1058 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,320 being into you. He also looks like the bully. 1059 00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,560 He looks like the job. He looks like you. 1060 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:40,560 Feel like the main girl in the movie? 1061 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,080 You do you. Do I was. 1062 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,720 Like he chose me, he chose me. He won't tell me his name, but 1063 00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:48,760 he chose me. Totally he he might get really 1064 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,080 mad later. Oh, he will block me for for 1065 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:53,480 sure. Don't come around here. 1066 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,600 But like I, I remember there was like there was 1 frat guy in 1067 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,560 particular who like freshman year would fuck me great and 1068 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,400 like I loved it. But like, there went if I saw 1069 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,000 him at a frat. Party Nothing. 1070 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,160 Absolutely nothing could never I, I, I know unfortunately it 1071 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,360 was really hot, but that somewhere between freshman, 1072 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,680 sophomore year, I was like, someone's got to change. 1073 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,120 I'm going to, I'm going to get ripped. 1074 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,560 I I was like, I'm going to do P90X. 1075 00:48:19,720 --> 00:48:22,880 P90. X Peak P90X By the end of the 1076 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,760 summer I got to the place where before, like the start, I could 1077 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:26,840 not do a single pull. Up. 1078 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:32,480 Was this like 2009 or something? This was 2012, 2013, summer of 1079 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,000 2013 and I by the end of the summer I could do one pull up. 1080 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,880 I was like, I was like, fuck yeah. 1081 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,520 I fell huge. And from that, that kind of 1082 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,840 started my workout journey. And then I started working out 1083 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,680 and like it took a long time to get to where I was. 1084 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,440 Like I, I was happy with myself, which I think is a more of a 1085 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,000 mental journey anyways, but I remember. 1086 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,320 Because you can do that anytime. You truly can. 1087 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,480 Exactly. But I was like, until I look 1088 00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,440 like Leo Giamatti or one of the True Blood guys, I won't be 1089 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,480 desired. And also like my gay best friend 1090 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,120 was all he always had boyfriends. 1091 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,880 I was always the like, I was always the best friend on the 1092 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,280 side, like, you know what I mean? 1093 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,000 Like in better shape I'm by these bettership being me like 1094 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,120 more standardly muscular masculine. 1095 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,320 Not even, I think he just was out longer and just had this 1096 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,600 like I think some people just like it feels like some people 1097 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,400 just had. Some people take to 1098 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,080 relationships. Yeah, He also just like I think 1099 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,800 he had it figured out more. I think he also was unapologetic 1100 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,720 about who he was. And I think that there is where 1101 00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:33,920 I was so desperate to be whoever they needed me to be to for them 1102 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,280 to fall in love with me, which I think unfortunately is not going 1103 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,720 to often lead to. Probably nothing long term or 1104 00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:41,200 genuine, no. Exactly. 1105 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,560 So maybe I was being spared by the universe. 1106 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,880 Hello, Tower Bottoms. It's me, your host Zach Newby 1107 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,760 Towers. Thank you so much for listening 1108 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,520 to Good Side Pod. If you haven't already, give it 1109 00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,720 a five star rating, Leave a review, share it with a friend, 1110 00:49:57,720 --> 00:49:59,760 get the word out. I love you so much.