Yeah, more. Give it to me.
Yeah, more. Good morning, Sad Mites with
Zach Zowie Towers. Hello.
This is so exciting because I have not had an anonymous guest
in like a couple years. Hello.
Hello, Anonymous.
So I guess we'll just jump right in.
And I of course have listeners who are going to love your voice
and be like, who is this? But I don't you don't have
social media. Or you do I do not have social.
Media, see. Good luck bitches.
Good luck figuring out who this is.
But let's just jump in, maybe tell the people like how like
maybe stats and like how you identify like gay male, like
whatever. I am 37 I I identify as gay but
I am kind of figuring out my sexuality a little bit later in
life. So I would say I'm fluid and
open to new experiences and not black and white.
But for the most part yes. I'm attracted to male, sure.
And yeah, my story. Well when you say stat wise,
what are you asking? Oh, no, you really hit it.
I think you hit it. I also love that you said you're
open to most things. Like, do you, have you been like
doing research on these things? Yeah, and.
Like, because when you said that, I was like, oh, maybe
you're pansexual, Maybe you're. Demisexual I've identified with
yes and I've had some like especially in the last couple of
years I, I feel like I could be pan too, you know, because
again, I've as I've become more comfortable with myself, for me
it's all just about a connection.
And so there are sometimes girls where like even if I don't want
to have sex, I'm like, I feel something with you.
Yes, Yeah, Yeah, yeah. So again, I that's where I am
right now. You're keeping an open mind,
continuing to evolve. Yeah.
OK, so then let's go back to the beginning and you said you're
exploring your sexuality kind of late in life.
So going to the beginning, do you remember the first things
that made you aware of sex or dare I say horny or like you
know? Yeah, my, I do.
I had some. I come from a very, very, very
how do I say it? I wouldn't say we were like
overly religious, but like conservative small town in the
South where everything revolves around youth group and
masculinity and being good at sports and all that kind of
stuff. Did you guys have Young Life?
We I knew of what that was. We, like our youth group, was
essentially got it. Young Life, OK.
OK, just and it was so fucking like it's a popularity contest.
Like the coolest kids were the closest with the minister.
It was so gross, but. But you don't even know that.
Then do. You know, yeah, you're just
trying to fit in and feeling like I'm not manly enough or I'm
not popular enough or cool enough to be.
I never thought about that. The hierarchy within like a
Christian group like that also is so.
Fucking bad. Human and animal and like the
hot guys, of course, like he's got really something special to
offer, like and. And yeah, and you see, like,
looking back on it, I have no idea what happened behind closed
doors on any of these situations.
But like the hot dudes, the, the, at the time, the, the dudes
that were perceived as the hot guys were always closest to the
male youth pastors. And it was just very like,
looking back on it now, I'm like, I don't know.
I just again, not to stereotype anybody, but like there's a lot
of people in churches I feel like that are closet homosexuals
or closet something. Taking advantage of and.
Even if they're not knowingly taking advantage of them, it's
just like this relationship feels weirdly close, you know?
So anyway, I come from a very repressed place and I was very,
very, very confused by what was turning me on as a kid.
Like I remember watching this is going to sound so weird to say
maybe, but maybe some actually there are people out there that
I know have like related to this, but like Teen Wolf with
Michael J Fox. Oh my God, I thought you're
going to see the the TV show. Well, that was based on that TV.
Show yes. But I remember watching that at
like age 910 at my grandparents house with him in the room and
the scene where Michael J Fox starts turning into a werewolf.
I started to get a boner and I'm like what?
I have no idea what this means. I didn't know what a boner was.
I was just like, I can't, I can't like this is weird and
awkward and like why is this happening and.
Did you know instinctively not to ask an adult for help or
whatever? Oh my God, we did.
We did not. No, no, no.
So they. Didn't talk about sex, gay or
straight. It was just.
The only thing I remember about I can't remember like this was
the only conversation I really ever remember having about it
was at some point my mom. I like I asked my mom where
babies come came from and I might have been made somewhere
in that like 8910 range and she would just like bluntly states,
Oh well, it's when a man sticks his penis in a girl's vagina.
And I was like, that is not true.
There's no fucking way that's. True.
Totally. And so that's the only sexual
information that I received. Honestly, kudos to her for being
like extremely. I know blunt about it.
Well, when a man has feelings, he gives his gift.
Yes. To the garden.
But, and there was, I do remember at some point for a
long time it we, we had this really deep backyard and I
remember Joseph and Steven were convinced that an eagle brought
them and laid them in the backyard and that's how they
were won. So yeah, that's that's the
extent of our sexual knowledge and our.
Family that's really great. That's very, it was very
specific, very like, yes, an eagle.
Yeah, it's not even a stork. It was an.
Eagle Yeah, Storks are gay. Do you remember then?
OK, so you had this boner in front of your grandparents, not
in front. Of you not in front, but just
like I started to feel like, what is this feeling, you know,
do you? Remember like how you stumbled
upon like masturbation and. Orgasm.
It didn't come about. I didn't orgasm for the first
time until like junior year of high school.
Interesting. I remember exactly where it was
and it's fucking like again. That was the first sexual
feeling I remember having. And so the first time I didn't
even know what I was doing. Like no one taught me about
masturbation. I was not in a group like I felt
like. Social people.
Yeah, I was around jerk off or they were just talking about
boobs and pussy and everything and I like, didn't know what to
say and I just kind of, you know, faded into the background.
Yes. Oh yeah, I love this.
And yeah, I was watching because I guess that, like, werewolf
transformations apparently turned me on.
So it was Underworld, the movie with Kate Beckinsale.
Yes, when the dude starts turning into a werewolf.
I that's the first time I ejaculated.
Oh my. Junior of high school, I was 17.
Remember it vividly. And but you were fully like,
jerking off. I was.
Or rubbing. Yeah, rubbing.
Friction, but you were kind of surprised by.
It I yeah, I was surprised by it.
Yeah. I felt like, yeah, because I
didn't know anything, you know, and I, I felt like my mom was a
helicopter mom and couldn't. That was just when the Internet
was starting to. Become a thing, yeah.
And I know I got caught once like browser history, like
didn't know browser history was a thing and so I couldn't get
information do. You remember what you were
browsing. With a generic porn, yeah, it
was. So it started with like it.
No, it was never really porn. It was like I was a late bloomer
and so I was watching all these guys around me.
Turn into men. Turn into men, yeah, basically.
And feeling like, what's wrong with me?
Is that going to happen to me? And like, searching for puberty
stuff and searching for dudes with body hair or whatever.
And that trickled down into like, oh, these sites feel
darker, yes. So Oh my God, the family
computer. The family computer, yes.
Space. I remember the time that yeah,
like had no, like I was doing it secretly.
Obviously the computer was in the family living room, so I
could only do it when no one was home.
And you hear the lock click in the door.
Oh my gosh, yes. Tighten, yes.
Everything tightens yes, so mate, never made that mistake
again after that point like always clear, clear the browser
history selectively go, you know, take out everything
because I remember my mom pulling me aside with my
brothers in the room and being like what is this?
And I'm just, yeah, that was, but it wasn't ever talked about.
Like if it was, I'd associated blacked out.
I have no idea what exactly happened, but that I just know
that incident occurred. It was never said like I'm gay
or whatever. Just like that's not OK to do
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And same.
I also remember little things. My mom was very, very, very,
very concerned about what people in the community thought of us,
of course. And.
How big was your high school class?
We were. My graduating class was like
270. OK, that's pretty big.
It's but it's like everyone from.
Yes, everyone knows everybody. Everyone knows everyone.
And I was one of three brothers and we all played sports or were
smart or whatever. And so both of our families from
from that town. So everyone kind of everyone
knew who we were. Everyone knew who everyone was.
And everyone was boys. Yes, the poor, Yes, I almost
said. I know, I know.
Yes, exactly. So anyway, I just remember like
being at the Country Club pool in the summer and wanting to
brush a girl. Country Club, Country Club pool.
Yes, we it was a it was a small town Country Club, not that
fancy. He's rich, He's rich.
He didn't tell us he's rich. And I remember like being closer
with the girls and, or like, just like I wanted to brush the
girl's hair while all the boys were playing sports.
And I remember being like, my mom was like, quit doing that.
Quit doing that. Like you're like, go play with
the boys. Why do you always want to play
with the girls, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And. Her acting like she's never
heard of a gay person before. Her sister was gay.
But did they have a tumultuous relationship?
Or it was a it was a Don't ask, don't tell.
Damn. Yeah, like she had a best friend
that my mom fucking hated for no other reason than the fact that
she was gay. Like.
She was making her sister gay. But it wasn't even said like I
remember asking her one time in the car on the way to fucking
church is Cal is blah blah blah. I.
I know, I know, I know, I know. Yes, don't say names.
Is aunt blah blah blah gay. And my mom was like, I hope not
because she'd be going to hell. And so that was like, oh.
My. God, yes, Yes.
Oh my God. I had that in the back of my
mind all the time. Like it is not OK.
Did you ever, and do you ever speak to the lesbian aunt?
She passed away from Alzheimer's 3 years ago.
Oh my God. So as I I never got to have a
real conversation with her about it because when my grandparents
passed away in 2011, money makes people fucking crazy.
And so when everything was being split up, the sisters all like
it was my mom against the other two.
And because I have to make mom happy looking back on it like
the other sisters were right. But I like didn't talk to her
for five years. And then at that point, when she
came back into our lives, she was already like, halfway, wow,
you know, gone, gone. Money yeah my my dad and his
family have since their mom passed literally legal like in
court and I'm like Oh my God it. Makes people fucking insane.
OK, so then talk to us about you come to Underworld and like,
you're a late bloomer. Yeah.
Are there any people you perceive to be queer in your
like school or like? Yes, 100% yeah.
Like I was on this one team like that's generic enough.
I. Guess yeah, yeah, yeah.
If I'm like you, could you imagine something like 37 swim
team and I'll take out the the first syllable.
When you said that and so, yeah, like half the fucking swim team
were closeted homosexuals. No one was out.
Nobody was out. There was.
Talk to us about this. Is it confirmed or it's
suspected? Or what do you mean when you say
half of them were closeted? Well, now they're all out.
OK, yes. Do you know any of them still?
Yeah, yes, we have one of them. One of them was the most like he
was bullied the most because I could at least I practice being
masculine. Like I tried to cover up my
personality as much as possible to be what I was supposed to be
and. How did that manifest in being
quiet? I was very quiet.
I was very shy. I embarrassed very easily
because sometimes, like my real personality would pop out and
I'll be like, Oh no, yeah, yes. So the ones that were like had.
Less hidden. Yeah, were had a harder time.
Even amongst teammates. Were teammates mean to them?
Yeah. Wow, that doesn't seem good for
morale. No, it was, it was not like I
wouldn't say that they were mean to them like, but it was just, I
think we were all afraid to be too close with each other
because we didn't want anything to be perceived as like if in
this I've I look back on it and kind of hate myself for it
because like I he is perceived as gay, so I can't be close to
him because I need to keep myself safe.
Were some of the bullies gay? Yeah, oh, my arch nemesis in
high school was also gay. We were like, it was but at the
end, but looking back on it, like we were all fucking
attracted to each other, but we both had to be like we were both
vying for who's going to be the gay friend in the straight group
and only one of us can exist. And so like we're always, we
were both Malatorians. We're always like.
But you were gay. I we, we were both, we were both
closeted, but we just, you just knew that something.
About you. Yeah, what?
You are doing. We're both different, even if
we're not identifying what exactly it is kind of thing.
And it's just that kind of secret power dynamic.
We're both secretly like always trying to one up the other one,
you know, Which again, when I think about some of the stuff
that I'm into sexually, it's all power dynamics.
It's like control. And yes.
Like Dom sub, do you find yourself more in the sub role?
I can I find myself in both. Oh, you flip.
I can flip yes again, I, I don't have like a lot of actual
experience in real life with a lot of those dynamics because
I'm just starting to explore literally in the last couple of
months really. As broadly as you want about how
your sex life has been between, let's say 18 when you graduated
high school and 35 or. Whatever.
So I had no sex. I was terrified.
There was how do I start this? I went to college also on the
swim team and there was another gay dude on the swim team who is
out now and he came out earlier. Did you come out at this point?
No, I didn't come out until after college, but he and I like
that was the first person that like I made out with and was
naked with. We didn't like have sex or
anything like that. But and I but at the time I was
like mortified and terrified like what have I done?
This is so wrong. Oh, about doing something gay.
Yes. And then like, I would distance
myself from him because I was trying to fit in with the crowd
I was supposed to fit in. With and you're this thing, this
mom in the car who said your aunt's going to hell.
Yes, and there's we depending on if we get all into all that,
there's some mommy daddy relationship stuff that happened
as I as a kid too. That also played into like my
sexual upbringing too. But I graduated from college and
like, was confident that, like, I can figure out how to be
straight. I can figure out like, this is
something that I just can deal with.
I'll figure out how to make this life work.
Like go get a regular job, get the white picket fence, be
married and have kids by the time you're 25 because that's
what you were supposed to do. Had you hooked up with a girl
at? This point made out with a ton
of girls, but like, as soon as it got to the point where, you
know, you get to that point in the night where like something
else was supposed to, yeah, it's like, OK, well, good night.
Yes, this is fine. And then I would be awkward
after that because sometimes they would.
If somebody started to crush on me, I'd be like, Nope, can't do
that because I can't let anyone be too.
Close. I'm not into her.
Yes or yeah, if because I couldn't fake.
Yeah, the the the, the gay, the gay dudes that were able to have
sex with women. I'm like, how how did you do
that? How did that happen?
Because the guy that I hooked up with in college was his Dick in
anything and he had a girlfriend.
What an honor to be one of those things.
Exactly. I didn't get it didn't occur,
but like we at least, you know, fooled around or whatever.
But yeah, I was a make out whore in college because some of the
things I remember saying are so fucking cringe.
Like trying so hard to be perceived as straight, you know,
like Oh my God, I can't wait to get some pussy tonight.
I know, and the award does not. Go too and I like thinking like,
oh, I made out with three girls in one night, so like I people
think I'm just. Like off.
And anyway, so I graduated from college and.
But, you know, I would crush on girls who showed no interest in
me because that was safer, you know, and got became friends
with one of them and told her I had feelings for her, quote
feelings. And then she turned me down.
And I think something inside me just kind of snapped where I
was. It was a New Year's Eve party,
2010 to 2011, and I was hammered and at a party and whispered to
a friend. I think I might be gay.
I didn't actually whisper it. I announced it to the room.
And so I woke up the next morning thinking like, Oh my
God, what the fuck have I done? But everyone was like, cool,
Either we already knew, oh, wow, or no big deal, bro, no big
deal. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this
huge weight has been lifted. I don't have to after college.
This was after college. This was at 22.
And yeah, so then I started slowly, like at least not having
to pretend to be straight anymore, sure, but still had my
own hang ups around sex and whatnot.
And at my mom was the type that like every time we'd have a
phone call, she would badger me about like, why don't you have a
girlfriend? Why don't you have a girlfriend?
Are you ever going to get a Jeep?
Blow it up? And so anyway, we finally, it
finally came to a point where she was like, do you even like
girls? And I was like, do you want the
answer to that question? And she was like, no, no, no,
no, no. And then I can't remember
exactly the. Back and forth.
At that point, but that's when I finally was like, I'm I think
I'm gay and I blah blah blah. And see, she we were both
crying. So on the phone she's like, I
love you no matter what. Oh.
It gets better ish or more interesting.
So I was like OK, great, this is over.
The cat's out of the bag. And the next day she calls me at
work. I'm in a white collar job out of
college and I'm sitting at the sitting at my desk next to this
super ultra conservative Christian girl.
And my mom calls me. And again, you can remember the
blunt way she told me about sex. She just flat out like calls me.
It's like something thinking you'd really rather have a guy
stick his Dick in your butt then have sex with a girl.
And I just was like flabbergasted and like, I 'cause
I really are. Like, I don't know.
We must not be sure. So from that point, I was sent
to Christian counseling to fix. And that is an episode in
itself. How long did you go to
counselling and how often did it happen?
I went two times a week. Just no.
I only went twice. And you knew instinctively that
it wasn't for you. Well like my mom she's like I'll
pay for it or whatever. So she gave me money to go like
5 times and after the second time I had the courage or like
the I've lived my life in a box. I do not want to go back in.
I'm not doing this. Anymore I want to.
Do this, and we had a family friend who was also very, very,
very religious and kind of like a second mother to figure to me
growing up and I think was whispering in my mom's ear.
She told. Like I remember having a phone
call with her. If you love me, you'll go at
least three more times. And so the.
Woman said that? Yes, the one that said that to
me. So nebulative as hell.
Yes, yes, anyway, so. So you flee So.
I flee that and yeah, I spend most of my age, 22 through 27,
drinking myself to death. And that's when I started.
Like, I know I don't. I'm 99% sure I had no sex, but
like, I blacked out a lot and would end up in people's beds
with my clothes off. And I have no idea what
happened. I don't think anything happened,
but I'll never know. So when you did wake up in these
situations, was it like a scary thing?
It was a shameful thing. OK, OK, it was a shame.
OK, good. Oh.
Sure. Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
Let's just. Oh, no, it's OK.
Yeah. We'll just change spaces.
I kind of forget what we had just said.
You fled. I fled, Yes.
And I'll be back on. Yeah.
So to make a Long story short, I lost my virginity in 2014 New
York City. It was New Year's Eve blackout.
No, I was not blackout. This I got, I met this guy on
Tinder super hot and I was just kind of like I wasn't dying to
have sex, but I was just like, I just want to check the box and
if that was me too, I just want to be over.
With this, I got to get this. I got to get over I'm.
Ready to RIP the Band-Aid off. I'm tired of telling people I've
never done it before. Whatever.
And so we had sex. He wanted me to top him.
And it was like, honestly, not a great experience.
He. It smelled the whole time.
Oh yeah. And at the end, like little, you
know, Hershey's kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shit ended up on my stomach and that kind of like, which is
again a very normal, natural thing to happen.
But for me, for my first time, I like I didn't have sex again
after that till 2023, so nine years after that.
Are we talking anal or like anything?
Wow. Yes, so also in 2015, I, I
sucked this, I sucked, I sucked a guy's Dick.
And then immediately after that I started to get sore throat,
sore throat and it turns out I got HPV on my vocal cords.
Oh my God. And had to have surgery.
I've had like 8 of them now. All stemming from.
I'm told it's not it. I'm told that it can happen
without that. The timing of it was just weird.
So like I'll never know if that's where it came from or
not, but I was because that happened.
That was in 2015. I just got in my mind, I was
like, OK, some people are not meant to have sex and I'm one of
them. And I just like isolated myself
and threw myself into work and didn't do anything until I left
my conservative state and started exploring life outside
of my little bubble and realized.
There's more out there. There's not do do on every
chest. Yes.
There's not HPV on every. Day people can be nice to you,
you know, like this is what this is what being taken care of
feels like or this is what like an actual connection feels like,
you know? Well, there's that thing of
like, when you're looking for like, comfort from a group of
people who aren't comforting themselves like other closet
people like. And that's what they're trying.
To do, to be. Yes, yes.
Like that. I was just surrounded by people
that I could see, like we're looking at each other, but we're
not saying anything. Totally.
Because we're all afraid of, you know.
It's a different kind of blackout where you're like.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. You're not being, you're
genuine. So much of my happiness has come
from being my genuine self, which obviously is very scary
and takes constant like taking inventory and like, am I being
honest? I'm lying right now.
Do I want to be here? And I have to usually err on the
side of like, Oh no, I like, don't want to be here.
There's 20% of me that doesn't want to be here, so let's just
fucking go, yes? Yes, 1000% and I just figured
that out later in life, you know?
Hey, literally better late than never. 100% yeah.
These last couple years getting to like, it feels like I'm still
kind of dipping in my toe in the water.
Like I feel like I'm living my middle school experience and my
mid to late 30s It's. A lot of the gay experience.
Yes, they said. Peter Pan's been.
Grown very. Much we were we were not
afforded the passing notes, dance school dances, first
kisses on like the bleachers, like it just didn't happen for
us. So I think we do seek it out and
but honestly, it's a fun way to live though at the same time.
Which way? Like the like finding little
innocent moments of like pleasure in like adulthood,
'cause I think a lot of St. People did that thing you did
where they got married at 20, two had three kids by 25, and
they're not out there on these streets figuring themselves out
and learning what makes. Them and they're going through
the motions like they're all unhappy.
Not all of them. I know, I know, but like.
So many of them, just like they're going through the
motions and. It can happen both ways because
they had all that good stuff front loaded and you had to wait
for yours. And that's I've really come to
terms with the fact that like, even though, yeah, you know, we
missed out on a lot growing up, some people experience more or
less than others or whatever. I am so fucking thankful to be
who I am. You get it now.
Yes. And I look at the people that I
thought had it all growing up and I'm like, oh, you're the
same. So dead inside a lot of.
Fear. A lot of anger, a lot of yes.
Yes, yes, yes. So.
Looking forward because we'll I'm with this.
Well, two things looking forward.
What are like your hopes for like your sexual journey?
I would love to be able to finish with somebody.
I have never been able to come with anybody.
With anyone else in the room? So you do have orgasms, correct?
But alone? Alone.
And if you had to diagnose this, assuming you haven't been
diagnosed with something, is it a mental?
Block, It's a combination of both.
I think there's a mental issue, I think there's a cyclot,
there's a mental issue and there's a physical issue, 'cause
I erection started to become painful like five years ago.
And I saw, I've seen like 3 different urologists, pelvic
floor therapists, basically I just carry a lot of tension in
that part of my body. And so I'm still actively
working. On that, you're painful when
you're by yourself, Yes. Wow, yes.
Still painful by myself. OK.
And so I'm so there's pain, there's pain, but I, there's a
part of me that gets off on the pain.
Really. But adding another person into
the mix? Makes it really, I think there's
just a lot of shame around what turns me on.
And so like even being able to sit here and have the
conversation of like, again, a whole nother episode, we can
talk about some of that stuff. Just like learning that you
can't control what turns you want.
You can't turn, you can't control what arouses you.
You can't control where these kinks develop because it all
just is from experiences that you had during your sexual
awakening and whatever. And so it's just learning to let
someone in enough to be like, this is what I need vulnerable.
This is what I need to get off and I'm just practicing you
know, my brain tells me I'm safe on my body says like no still.
So it's just learning to connect the two better the.
Body keeps the score, vibes beautiful.
And then the last thing is, what's some advice you give to
the younger version of yourself before they began this sexual
journey? There's nothing wrong with you.
You're fucking perfect exactly the way that you are.
And look in the mirror and just like, look at what you've got
and look at what you've done and look at how much people fucking
love you. Let them see that person.
Yeah, that's what I would. Say, let you see that person.
Let me, I've I, yes, let myself look in the mirror and see what
other people will. See.
Yes, brilliant. Yes.
Well, thanks for doing this and absolutely we'll have you back
for another one and we can get like to the next level layer of
the onion. And maybe I'll have more to
report by then, so. All right, until next time, keep
sucking and fucking. Hello, Tower Bottoms.
It's me, your host, Zach Newey Towers.
Thank you so much for listening to Good Side Pod.
If you haven't already, give it a five star rating.
Leave a review, share it with a friend, get the word out.
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