1 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,000 Hello everyone and welcome back to People Juwan and O podcast. 2 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:23,200 Today's guest is someone who has been nominated by at least five 3 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,440 other guests of the show. Her name is Bellamy Bellucci. 4 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,280 Bellamy Bellucci is a South African born dancer, model, 5 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,360 filmmaker and advocate whose journey bridges continents, 6 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,960 identities and communities. A black transgender Jewish 7 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,880 woman, she has become a singular voice for inclusivity and 8 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,280 representation, using her artistry and lived experience to 9 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,440 spark conversations. Raised in Johannesburg, Bellamy 10 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,840 trained at the National School of the Arts and the South 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,800 African Ballet Theatre School before earning a scholarship at 12 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,680 the Washington School of Ballet. Through the inaugural South 13 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,640 African International Ballet Competition in 2009, she 14 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,400 achieved international recognition as a top 12 15 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,959 finalists at the Youth America Grand Prix, the world's largest 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,680 student ballet competition. She travelled all over the 17 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,640 world, five different continents and performed with some of the 18 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,280 most acclaimed companies. And as is the case for a lot of 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,560 professional dancers and athletes, Bellamy ended up 20 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,600 needing medical care after some injuries. 21 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,800 Following. Bilateral hip replacement 22 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,640 surgery. She then transitioned into 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,600 teaching, private coaching and modeling while expanding her 24 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,520 creative work into filmmaking. Now, Bellamy is working on 25 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,440 Finding Home, a feature length documentary exploring belonging, 26 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,840 identity and resilience through her own lens. 27 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,080 Of course, she is also a passionate advocate for Israel 28 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,360 and a bold voice against anti-Semitism. 29 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,720 Bellamy and I met in person for the first time at the AJC Global 30 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:46,520 Forum and we instantly hit it off. 31 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,000 There's something complimentary about us and I remember telling 32 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,480 her that together we're like a black and white cookie. 33 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,160 There's so much going on in Bellamy's life and so many 34 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:56,720 identities that she's straddling. 35 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:58,960 You'll get to hear all about it first hand. 36 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,320 In this episode, I really want you to listen to how Bellamy 37 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,320 takes her pain and she converts it into positive energy and 38 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,080 value and activism. One of the things I heard from 39 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,080 Bellamy is the pain she feels over how the Jewish community 40 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,280 has treated her as an activist. When organizations don't want to 41 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,000 pay, when they treat you like you should, be grateful you're 42 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,880 in the room. You'll hear all about this 43 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,880 shortly, and this is what I'd like to add as my own opinion on 44 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,680 the matter. As a product manager by trade, I 45 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,280 really believe that if one person said it, 10 people felt 46 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,440 it and 100 people experienced it. 47 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,640 What Bellamy is talking about is, frankly, the total truth, 48 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,320 and it's just that a lot of activists won't complain or say 49 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,320 anything because then they won't make money. 50 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,880 Now I can talk about it all day long because I don't use 51 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,160 activism as my income and I honestly feel like I should say 52 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:47,760 something for the greater good of others. 53 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,960 It is common practice at Jewish conferences and amongst Jewish 54 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,960 organizations to bring in keynote speakers and panelists 55 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,720 their events. When this happens, the smaller 56 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,880 creators or younger creators, they're often asked to attend 57 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,760 and speak for free and they're told that no one else is getting 58 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,640 paid an honorarium. Once again, when activists try 59 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:09,560 to advocate for themselves and ask to get paid, the Jewish 60 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,240 organizations first line of defense is always we'd love to 61 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,280 pay you, but actually everyone is doing this free of charge, so 62 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,200 it wouldn't be fair. And respectfully, this is just 63 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,520 untrue. And all of us know that it's 64 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,320 untrue, as Bellamy put it in an offline conversation. 65 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,120 If Caitlyn Jenner is attending your conference, you cannot look 66 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,080 me in the eyes and in good faith tell me that no one is getting 67 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,200 paid. The organization is just 68 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,640 choosing not to pay you. I think it would be a lot more 69 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,440 palatable if they just said things like, sorry, you know, we 70 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,120 don't have the budget for this. But turning it on the creator 71 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,000 and framing it as if the creator is asking to be treated with 72 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,360 some exceptionality is just a bad faith rebuttal. 73 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,760 And no one can really do anything about it because if 74 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,520 they cause too much of A stink, they'll successfully work 75 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,480 themselves out of a job. That's why when you go to these 76 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,520 conferences, you feel a lot of resentment from Jewish activists 77 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,240 when you talk to them. In fact, many of them have 78 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,000 pivoted to become brand influencers or something other 79 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,040 than Jewish activists. Unless you're a Hen Mazig or a 80 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,080 Noah Tishbi, there's really no money to be made in Jewish 81 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,240 activism. And even Hen and Noah are still 82 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,320 like workhorses. So what does it say about how 83 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,120 much everyone else would have to do to make a living off of this? 84 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,920 And of course, there are influencers who have made six 85 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,720 figures from the war, profited from the war, but they are few 86 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,360 and far between. I can count them on two hands. 87 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,600 That's just simply not the reality for the other 99%. 88 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:38,240 Anyway, that's some inside tea for you on the world of Jewish 89 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,280 activism, but you'll also get to hear Bellamy's take. 90 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,200 I'm excited to see what's next for Bellamy, how her documentary 91 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,440 evolves, and of course, her journey with Aliyah. 92 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,800 She is truly a people. Do you want to know? 93 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:54,360 And please enjoy this episode. Hello Bellamy, welcome to 94 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:55,840 PEOPLE. Do You want to Know podcast? 95 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,800 Thank you. Thank you for having me. 96 00:04:58,280 --> 00:04:59,960 I would have you every day if I could. 97 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,080 You'll be my Co host if I could. It's an honor to have you here. 98 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,040 For those who are not familiar with you yet, please tell us 99 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,040 about yourself. What do you do and how did you 100 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:14,000 get there? I am a very insane person that 101 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,880 just believes in sovereignty of the state of Israel, but also as 102 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,680 a Jew, just the importance of who we are as a people and 103 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,720 changing the narrative that I think has been going on for so, 104 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:29,080 so, so many years. And using my life and making 105 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:34,720 sure that I can echo every single inch of who we are, not 106 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,480 just as a people, but what we've given to the world. 107 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,680 Because it seems that people just think that Jews are a 108 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,480 monolith. So that needs to change. 109 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,120 Insane indeed. What an insane idea. 110 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,560 I want you to take us back to your upbringing in South Africa. 111 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:56,680 You were a professional dancer for years of your life growing 112 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,400 up as a black person in South Africa post apartheid. 113 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,560 Tell us a little bit about your upbringing and how that shaped 114 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,560 you. It was definitely different. 115 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,320 I would say I had both worlds that were very different, like 116 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,040 in terms of like socio economic, both parents were very different 117 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,600 and both gave different things. I was never really close to my 118 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,160 family. I'm still not very close to my 119 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,240 family at all. I was shipped off the boarding 120 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,760 school at the age of 7 and just had to suit up. 121 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,320 I just had to get on with life. I fell in love with classical 122 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,000 ballet after I'd started acting at the age of 9 in Johannesburg 123 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,360 when I they got out of private school and I went to public 124 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:38,480 school afterwards. And that led me to something 125 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,480 that I was super passionate about, fell in love with, but 126 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,000 also knowing that it might be my out out of South Africa being 127 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,080 around family that had gone through apartheid and the 128 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,320 remnants of apartheid that was still there. 129 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:55,320 I think a lot of people that read about it historically think 130 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,400 that OK, great. So Nelson Mandela became 131 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,320 president and then apartheid was over. 132 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:04,200 No, on paper it was over. But the remnants of it is 133 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,080 something that runs very deep in the the veins of the South 134 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:12,960 African human body and as a source for what it stands for to 135 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,760 this day. I was very privileged to be 136 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,520 first generation of post apartheid, to be educated better 137 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,200 than my parents were and have more opportunity. 138 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,280 So I sought every single opportunity that I could get. 139 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:34,520 Luckily for me, I stayed away from the indoctrination in which 140 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,040 the education system had been pushing on somebody that looks 141 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:43,720 like me, obviously, and what we see and hear today coming out of 142 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,760 a country like that. So I wouldn't say that I had the 143 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,640 happiest of childhoods, but I was also so busy that I really 144 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:55,600 didn't care and I wanted out since since I think that as long 145 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,600 as I can remember, South Africa is such a beautiful country. 146 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,840 But there's more damage than beauty for somebody like me, and 147 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,000 especially as somebody that went through everything that I did as 148 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:11,480 a child and not really feeling that whole sense of family or 149 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,040 community or country or nationalism. 150 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,240 I never had it for for South Africa. 151 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:22,160 So the best thing that I had was classical ballet and acting to 152 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,040 make money from the age of nine. That's what I did for money. 153 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,520 So how, how joyous is that for a childhood? 154 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,919 That's a lot. And while I empathize as a 155 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:35,760 former child performer, I don't understand because to me it was 156 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,120 joyous. It wasn't work. 157 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,919 And so it breaks my heart to hear that it felt like to you 158 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:44,800 more of like a necessary evil in order to survive than anything 159 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,600 else. And I wonder as your friend, you 160 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,320 and I haven't talked about this before, but I, I'm wondering if 161 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,720 you'd be able to share. At what point did you realize 162 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,000 that, you know, I don't quite fit into the body that I'm in 163 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,440 right now? And at what point did your trans 164 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,960 journey kind of start? I think for a lot of people that 165 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,120 don't understand gender dysphoria or where it comes 166 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,160 from, they, they hold space for it. 167 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,080 That term, Thank goodness Wicked is over because I can't stand 168 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:18,880 it. They, they hold, you know, space 169 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,400 for it and, and try to understand. 170 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,000 So for me, from the age of four, I knew that I was different. 171 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,840 We all are different, But you know, I'm, I'm also a child. 172 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,840 What do I really know about what difference is? 173 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,120 Every single day is different. I'm learning something new every 174 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,560 single day. But there was always this very 175 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:37,800 innate sense of there's something off with my body 176 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:45,200 because I don't identify with whatever this meat suit thing is 177 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,600 that I'm in. And I'm very, you know, 178 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,720 conservative in how I was raised as well. 179 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,120 Very tribal, very traditional in a South African way. 180 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,920 And it's one away. So I was, I was a pariah in the 181 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,640 family from a very, very young age. 182 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,280 But knowing that I was different from a young age, I wouldn't say 183 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,680 was the worst thing because one thing led to another and then 184 00:10:08,680 --> 00:10:10,520 all of a sudden, oh, they do ballet. 185 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,720 OK, whatever. I, I came out of the closet as 186 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,280 self identifying gay person at the age of 12 because it just 187 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,680 made life so much easier to be around my family and the 188 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,120 so-called, I would say my surroundings, not community, but 189 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,680 my surroundings. For a lot of people they might 190 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:30,960 think, wow that's brave or that's so young. 191 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:32,920 I just thought I want to be left alone. 192 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,080 So that was the easiest thing for me to do while I spent life 193 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,000 growing internally as myself, to accept myself. 194 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:45,440 I think a lot of people have this strange sense that all 195 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,960 trans people or anybody that has this very distinct gender 196 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,400 identity struggle or dealing with gender dysphoria or 197 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,800 homosexuality or anything else that just makes somebody more of 198 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,120 a minority than they already are, that there's this 199 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,040 acceptance that they need from the world. 200 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,560 For somebody like me, I never understood that because I needed 201 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:07,040 to accept myself. It was never about the world 202 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:12,040 opening its doors for me as I, I grew up in a country where gay 203 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,560 pride was normal, it was normalized and gay people being 204 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:18,440 married was normal. So when I came to the United 205 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,080 States of America, the fact that gay marriage wasn't even legal 206 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,200 was a odd thing, considering that I come from a country that, 207 00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:27,680 you know, blacks and whites couldn't walk on the same side 208 00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:30,640 of the street when I was, you know, growing up in spaces. 209 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,920 And these on things like you have Soweto and you have 210 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,840 Alexandra where you put a a bunch of people that basically 211 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,480 what we would call those like racial concentration camps that 212 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,720 were surrounded by the army that if you dropped a nuke, you could 213 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,640 wipe out a whole race. So my upbringing was very 214 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,280 different. Growing up getting to see the 215 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:54,360 army go by. I did have some sort of a 216 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,600 balance in reality from everything that was happening 217 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:04,840 around, which again, to this day brings me to explaining how, you 218 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,320 know, me being trans is not my whole personality. 219 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:08,960 Me being black is not my whole personal. 220 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,880 There was always so much going around and coming from a country 221 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,200 on a continent where I'm a predominant race also kind of 222 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,960 separates me from a black person in America. 223 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:24,880 So understanding who I was psychologically was more of an 224 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,200 interest to me than, oh, I need to, you know, say that I'm, I'm 225 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,000 different. I think it was, it was harder 226 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,680 for me to tell the world that I was gay than it was to say that 227 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:38,760 I was trans because that was the lie. 228 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,800 And, and I had to grow up with a lie that was uncomfortable for 229 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,960 me and be in spaces that made me feel very uncomfortable where I 230 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:52,720 think a lot of people who are probably straight feel that way 231 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,560 or pretending to be heterosexual and still in the closet. 232 00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:00,880 For me, that part of, oh, you came out of the closet was very 233 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,000 much like, I just put myself in this box and in the closet 234 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,040 because I was not somebody that I was ever going to be growing 235 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,280 up and living my life. At some point, it was that or 236 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,840 OK, at some point I'll probably just end my life. 237 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,200 I'll just do as much as I can really quickly, achieve as much 238 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,040 as I can really quickly, and then peace out, morbid as that 239 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,440 is. But yeah. 240 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,000 I think what you're saying is really powerful here because 241 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,120 often I find that people who are self-conscious about their 242 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,760 identity, they walk into a room and they're like, oh, by the 243 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,440 way, you know, I'm gay or by the way, I'm this and you need to 244 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,160 know about me that I'm this, this and that. 245 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,640 And I even feel that myself where I sometimes come into a 246 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,600 room and I'm like, oh, and by the way, I'm Jewish, right? 247 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,280 And I need people to know that right away because I want to 248 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,560 make sure that I'm accepted by them. 249 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,520 But what you're saying here is it's irrelevant whether you're 250 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,080 accepted by anybody else. You have to be accepted by you. 251 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,200 And that's one of the things that you when I laugh about 252 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,960 whenever where Jewish events or conferences, how, you know, 253 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:13,160 careful people trod around you because they're like, what do we 254 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,200 do with with this? You know with this circumstance. 255 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,160 What are we doing right now? Right and you're just like, what 256 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,280 do you mean? I, I'm just a person and that's 257 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,440 the most important thing. The the most important lesson I 258 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,360 think somebody could take away from being connected to people 259 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,400 who are perhaps in an identity that's unusual to them or 260 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,120 uncommon to the world is that you have to just see them as a 261 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,040 person. It doesn't matter what the 262 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,880 labels are or how they identify themselves. 263 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:44,800 You are Bellamy, you are my friend. 264 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,640 You are a person. Yeah. 265 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,720 And, and, and the, the main thing that I had to come to 266 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,240 terms with, you know, by doing the work and really going inside 267 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,840 and, and understanding that the world is not coming to save me. 268 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,200 No one's coming to save me. No one's coming to long before 269 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:09,240 we got into struggles of, you know, BLM or anything else was 270 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,480 really understanding the importance of self acceptance 271 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,800 because at some point the world and, and people are very fickle. 272 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,360 So if you are already dealing with everything that the the 273 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,400 world and life is throwing at you universally or through 274 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,720 Hashem or so forth, you, you have to have a very strong 275 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,240 constitution for self. And it didn't come easy, but I 276 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,120 had to really knuckle down and make sure that I was comfortable 277 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,720 with myself because the world is not a kind place. 278 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:45,400 So 1 needs to create a reality and live in reality as well, but 279 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,840 create a reality within themselves. 280 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,200 What they understand that it doesn't matter how other people 281 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:55,520 perceive you or how other people talk about you or treat you in 282 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,480 rooms with that you're in or you're not. 283 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,560 How are you treating yourself? And that that's, that's one of 284 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,560 the, the most powerful thing that I think I'm very lucky to 285 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,320 have realized because it's helped me get out of bed. 286 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,040 It's helped me like walk in rooms and be confident within 287 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,000 myself. It it comes with work, but I 288 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,520 would definitely say that I've had grown straight men who are 289 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,640 very alpha, blah, blah, blah, behave like, you know, little 290 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,840 puppies with dogs with, you know what their with their tail 291 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,640 between their legs because they don't know how everybody's on 292 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,080 egg shells. I don't know what to say. 293 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,680 I don't know what to do. But at the same time, they can 294 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,120 see that I exude everything that I am. 295 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:42,080 I'm very, very authentic and I, I no longer care to, to make 296 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,680 those announcements of this is who I am. 297 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,360 If somebody wants to ask a question, I definitely think 298 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,600 they should ask the question. Because when we went through 299 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,360 that whole thing during COVID with BLM and all the celebrities 300 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,640 were like, I'm at fault. I'm at fault. 301 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,440 I mean, it was the most annoying thing that white people are 302 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,760 going around telling me that it's their fault that I'm black. 303 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,599 Are you OK? Something's very off with with 304 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:09,640 that. And now we look at what's 305 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:16,359 happening with with with this intense, disgusting volcanic 306 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,440 eruption of anti-Semitism, which I think has always existed. 307 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,200 But the volcano is just erupted and we're living within this 308 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:31,800 lava and a stained world because people need to feel that the 309 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:37,120 world has to tell us that, hey, it's not your fault that you're 310 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:39,600 that way. I could have used some of that 311 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,000 energy now. But ultimately I, I've already 312 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,800 gone through that part of being told, oh, it's my fault. 313 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,560 And I, I want to slap people like that. 314 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,360 Internally, I don't believe in violence, but internally I, I, I 315 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:55,960 want to say, why are you so weak in terms of constitution with, 316 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,280 with, with yourself? Why do you need to apologize for 317 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,320 what you look like? Why does a white man have to 318 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,520 apologize for being a white man like that? 319 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,600 There's a reason why we're all so politically and everywhere 320 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:11,200 else in this very uncomfortable shift where people feel as 321 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,880 though everything is so radicalized right now. 322 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,880 But yeah, because everyone's been living on a hubbly bubbly 323 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,560 for years going, I'm so sorry. Are you OK? 324 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,560 Did I say the wrong thing? I don't want to insult. 325 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,440 I don't want to offend. And then when you, when they 326 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,320 come across somebody like me and I'm like, please just ask the 327 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:33,480 question because you're wasting so much energy trying to digest 328 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,440 how to do something. If you're respectful in the 329 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,240 intention of what you're doing and want to know is coming from 330 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,120 a real place. I respect that. 331 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,520 There's nothing that drives me more insane than people that 332 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,840 walk around me, you know, on egg shells because energetically I 333 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,120 can feel it. Why are you? 334 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,720 Why are you lurking then? Like go do something else. 335 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:58,640 The lurkers I I want to dig into this more, but first I want to 336 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,720 take us on a little tangent. Tell me where Judaism found you 337 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,040 in all of this? What what was happening at the 338 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,720 time? How did you come across it, and 339 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,920 how did you know? Like OK, this means something to 340 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,840 me. So I grew up in a very Christian 341 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,360 Methodist base family where, you know, people were going to 342 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:20,720 church. My grandmother was like 343 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,720 basically a board member of the church until she passed away 344 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,280 when I was very young. My family is still very much in 345 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,400 the same, same church. There's there's no mixing of you 346 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,000 go, here I go. No same church, same family from 347 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:39,400 birth till death. And I had this very strange 348 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,800 because I'm a very inquisitive person, because I'm, I'm, I'm 349 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,920 weird enough, I think for the world as it is. 350 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,920 So I might as well get as much information as possible about 351 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,160 what's going on here. Why am I here? 352 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:56,080 And I kept asking questions from, from the Bible or in terms 353 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:57,720 of ritual. And they just kept saying 354 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,320 because and because it's not an answer for me, it's it's a very 355 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,280 lazy answer of people that are just following a recipe. 356 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,280 That you could have just baked cookies and said, I followed a 357 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:08,880 recipe. You didn't come up with it. 358 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,960 You didn't ask why you needed a little bit of this and a little 359 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,040 bit of that. You didn't mess up enough to 360 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,440 figure out why the formula is this way. 361 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,400 So I stepped away from Christianity. 362 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,280 And when I started doing ballet, I think it was around. 363 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:22,920 Yeah, no, it was around the age of 10. 364 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,400 I had, you know, teachers that were Jewish. 365 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,240 I, my friends were Jewish. So my whole world kind of 366 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,360 changed because I wasn't somebody that really grew up 367 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:37,760 with friends because I was working or I was in a different 368 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,840 school, in boarding school, in a different state. 369 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:45,200 So my schooling was very different term wise to everybody 370 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,920 that I was growing up with. When I was on holiday, they were 371 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:49,680 in school. When they were in school, I was 372 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,280 on holiday. So for the first time, I started 373 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,720 to really make genuine friends that I spent hours and hours and 374 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,480 hours with, and then start to get invited into their homes and 375 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,960 into events. And it was something that pulled 376 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,320 me towards Judaism in that way because it was a sense of 377 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,080 community. But ritual made sense and I 378 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,280 could ask questions, I could ask questions. 379 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,920 And people were excited that I was asking questions, annoying 380 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,920 as I was. But I needed more information. 381 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,120 I needed to know more about everything else. 382 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:24,480 And there was this pathway within Judaism that allowed me 383 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,400 to do that. But I also felt like myself very 384 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,880 much myself. And again for the second time, I 385 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,360 can't make a decision like that. I'm too young. 386 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,360 I have to wait. So from that age when people go 387 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:42,200 around to India at the age of 40, when they're, you know, 388 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,680 divorced with three kids and they go find themselves. 389 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,400 I found I I did the whole I'm going to find myself while I 390 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,920 grow up because clearly I'm developing and I'm I'm growing. 391 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:56,920 Might as well figure out if I'm a Buddhist, am IA Scientologist, 392 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,360 am I? I went on the this whole thing 393 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,720 and the chanting with the beads, Tina Turner style was not my 394 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,800 thing. It worked for a little bit, but 395 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,760 I think if you work something long enough and you believe it, 396 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,960 SA Baba, it's it's real, right? Didn't do anything for me at 397 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,240 all. And then I had, you know, people 398 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,160 that I was going to school with. They were like, I, you know, my 399 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,720 father is an alcoholic and he beats me, but I, I'm so in love 400 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,600 with nature and Buddhism because I can chant and I have my gahans 401 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:29,880 on. And I was like, there's a little 402 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,000 lot going on that you have to do and I'm tired kind of. 403 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,320 So I stepped away from religion. I was always very spiritual. 404 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,200 And then when I moved to the USI was there was still this, this 405 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,760 yearning for, for something beyond spirituality. 406 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:53,880 So besides the chanting, I was in a downward facing dog every 407 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:59,360 two seconds just trying to find some kind of message, some like 408 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:05,200 something from somewhere. And it only took me until 2011 409 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,680 when I came on tour to to Israel and we're performing at the 410 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,120 Opera House with my ballet company. 411 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:16,240 And on a Sunday, which is Monday here we went. 412 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,520 And we, we came to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv, got on a bus. 413 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,480 We did the whole thing. We ran to the show. 414 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,840 But it's when I got to the hotel that every question that I had 415 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:31,040 been asking internally and, and was throwing out into the ether, 416 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,400 Hashem was like, OK, great. Now I'm going to answer you. 417 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,800 And there was one word that I literally heard and felt. 418 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,240 And it was yes. So a question that I had asked 419 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,440 at the age of 10 of is this who I am? 420 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,040 Why does this makes it? And all I heard was yes. 421 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,440 So I was like, OK, let me go and do some more research, meet with 422 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,800 some rabbis, start attending services at different synagogues 423 00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:01,880 in in New York. And that's how I ended up 424 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:07,600 finding my, my, my rabbi and converting one-on-one Orthodox. 425 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,040 I wasn't there yet. And I don't think that I was 426 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:19,120 ready to deal with a lot of the very, very amazingly halafic 427 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:25,520 values and that the way of life, because my life was very much 428 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,240 filled with it was everywhere. You know, I'm in one country in 429 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,280 two seconds and then I'm, I'm in Japan the next and then I'm 430 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,680 performing here, then I'm in New York. 431 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,480 For there was a way too much going on to truly say, OK, I'm 432 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,720 good. I'm going to get, have a Jewish 433 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,640 Home. I'm going to live a kosher life. 434 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,800 I'm going. So I, I slowly really started to 435 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,800 incorporate these things into my life where it made sense for 436 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,120 somebody who's living such a fast-paced life as a performing 437 00:24:53,120 --> 00:25:00,720 artist and reform was a little too chill for me. 438 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,160 I still needed ritual. That was the one thing that I 439 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,800 was craving was ritual because I need to know that when I'm 440 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,120 connecting, there's a reason why. 441 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,640 And I have to work to have said connection. 442 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,480 We all have a connection with, with, with Hashem, even if 443 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,800 you're spiritual, not religious, we all have it. 444 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:27,040 But I had such a deep yearning to, to have a relationship with, 445 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:32,760 with God because I was missing it from my parents and I was 446 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,280 missing it from the world. So I knew that that there has to 447 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:42,320 be a reason why I have this very strong and in a sense that I'm 448 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,200 being pulled towards my, my parents. 449 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,080 Like if you, if we're calling him ABBA, we call him our 450 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,240 father, our sovereign. So if I'm being pulled towards 451 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:59,400 this, this magnificence that created me, then I wanted to 452 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,840 probably go in that direction. So when muscle T like 453 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,920 Conservative Judaism was was presented to me, I thought, OK, 454 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:12,000 great, because it's one step closer to Orthodox and kind of a 455 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:18,280 little bit more doable with with with my life at the time. 456 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,440 The conservative movement is also my favorite movement in 457 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,400 Judaism. That's the camp that I grew up 458 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,720 going to. I think they really balance, you 459 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,920 know, tradition with like, modern day in a beautiful way. 460 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,080 And I'm really excited in particular how this new chapter 461 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,480 for you in Israel plays out because you will get to 462 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,280 experience the concept of traditional in a new way, in an 463 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,320 Israeli way. And I wonder how you take that 464 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,200 on, whether you find that you enjoy it or if you prefer the 465 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,800 more conservative style. One of the things that has been 466 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,120 really touching for me to observe is how you stepped up in 467 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:56,800 the Jewish advocacy world post October 7th as a performing 468 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,560 artist. You never have to say anything 469 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,600 really. And considering you're like our 470 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,880 model minority in the US, you could have fit right in, you 471 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,320 know, with the woke mob. But you immediately go like, no, 472 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,680 that's not what I'm going to do. As you reflect back on this 473 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,120 roller coaster that you've been on, two years of painstaking, 474 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,920 thankless advocacy work, difficult life experiences, 475 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,760 beautiful life experiences, making Aaliyah, what do you 476 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,560 think is your proudest achievement? 477 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,960 I would definitely have to say making my way to Israel in a way 478 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,200 that I call it home, not in a way, but that there's been this 479 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,400 thing. It's also the name of the 480 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,800 documentary that I'm making as I get. 481 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,360 It's called Finding Home and I'm very much about finding home 482 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:43,200 because I've never felt as though I was home. 483 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,240 So even the story of, of our exodus from Egypt, historically, 484 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,880 I, I have this thing of not just where we all disperse throughout 485 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:58,480 the world that there was, there's this very magnetic soul 486 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,160 sense of I feel as though I've just been wandering in Galut. 487 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:08,000 I've been wandering in, you know, and in exile. 488 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:15,760 But there's this very deep sense of a homecoming and I and, and, 489 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,080 and also the people that I gravitate towards and the people 490 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,520 that gravitate towards me is something that I've never 491 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,320 experienced outside of this country ever. 492 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:33,760 And walking into a Shoal baked nest at shul, synagogue, temple, 493 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,840 whatever you want to call it, anywhere else in the world would 494 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,160 have been very different for me. But me going to a synagogue here 495 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,160 on Yom Kippur with a Mahita and being able to pray not just as a 496 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:52,400 Jew, but as, as a woman and, and with, with Orthodox people that 497 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,400 see me as a human being, but for everything else. 498 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,280 And like, you know, that life here is not a utopia. 499 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:08,840 But I feel more of myself. I feel more like myself than I 500 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,760 have ever felt in my whole life. So I think that was the the arc 501 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,400 of October 7th. But even before October 7th, 502 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:22,160 when they try to enact the another intifada during lockdown 503 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,640 in May, when there was that uptick of, you know, the the 504 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,880 same rhetoric and the same conversation of everything that 505 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:34,520 we've heard for the past two years, it called me to step up 506 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,480 to my higher self. And I think that comes with a 507 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,560 responsibility where I had to be OK losing everything. 508 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,440 I had to be OK being being annexed from the modelling world 509 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,560 and the entertainment world. And I have to be OK with it. 510 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:56,760 I had to be OK with friends being taken away from me because 511 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:03,160 my path in a place that got me out of South Africa was over. 512 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,880 It was over because it was time to move forward. 513 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:13,040 And when I say calls to my higher self, my mission was far 514 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,480 greater than what I thought it was going to be. 515 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,680 And I think for all of us that have been very vocal and just as 516 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,760 Jews, as a community, as one body, as much as we're so many 517 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:28,440 tribes, as one body, it truly activated us or for me 518 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,040 personally, activated me in a way where I had to come into 519 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,800 mission above self. I had enough time being about 520 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,280 self. Now it was time to come to my 521 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,480 higher self because I'd called for more because it was no 522 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,320 longer just about me. It was no longer just about me 523 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,960 being an American, me being in the New York, me being a South 524 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,280 African. It called me for far more 525 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,640 because everything that the world could look at me and say 526 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,920 is wrong with me is exactly what's right. 527 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,080 And the change that needs to happen not just within our 528 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,840 community, but throughout the world. 529 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,680 So when I hear people talk about how they're in desperate need of 530 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,400 equality because there's such massive inequality and racial 531 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:17,200 and systemic racism in America, I'm like, OK, but where's the 532 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,320 change coming in that with the LGBTQ plus community? 533 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,920 Where's the change coming in that because equality was 534 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,800 granted, was given, It's there because two men can walk into a 535 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,880 restaurant and hold hands. Let's be real, it, it might not 536 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:37,320 be in in Minnesota somewhere, but living in New York, even 537 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,840 even, you know, with the, with the Stonewall rights and 538 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,040 everything else, the arc happened. 539 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:47,080 So this is where we are. Where's the change where we as 540 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:52,240 as people and as individuals realize that moving forward, the 541 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,160 only way that we're going to shift and move away from every 542 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:02,480 single historic benchmark that we're so stuck on is by being 543 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,480 exactly the change that we want to see in the world. 544 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,040 And I'm not just seeing that as a cliche because people throw it 545 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,160 out there all the time. Be the change you want to see in 546 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:11,160 the world. OK? 547 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,000 Thank you so much for the banner. 548 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,960 Have merch. Did the merch help? 549 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,960 Did anything help? Course correct where we're 550 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,000 going? Because I definitely think we're 551 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,720 at such an A very incredibly important time. 552 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,960 The clock is ticking and you either go right or left. 553 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,800 You either say yes or no, heed the call. 554 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,680 And that's where I am right now. We're in very desperate need of 555 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,840 changing the narrative moving forward. 556 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,320 We can't do and say the same things again. 557 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:50,000 We have our tribal customs, we have ritual, we have history, 558 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,080 but who are we where people look back 100 years from now and say 559 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,520 this generation actually did something different, as opposed 560 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,880 to not just saying never again as now? 561 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,080 OK, how's that helping? You bring up something that's 562 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,760 really the crux of the issue in the Jewish world today, which is 563 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,400 we cannot cohesively communicate to the world who we are. 564 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,320 We can't agree on it as a community, and thus we don't 565 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,480 have a clear message to the world. 566 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,960 In fact, we are infighting so much amongst ourselves that you 567 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,000 know, there goes Mamdani finding a bunch of Jews who can support 568 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,560 his worldview, right? Because at this point you can 569 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,480 find a Jew who believes anything really. 570 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,840 So it's a really hard thing to reckon with because what once 571 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,720 made our community so beautiful? It was this like diversity of 572 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,760 opinion, diversity of thought. But they're at this point, I 573 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,120 really do believe that there needs to be something stronger 574 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,040 than just all of us saying we're Jewish that unites us and what 575 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,160 that what it means to be Jewish. Saying we're all Jewish is not 576 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,720 enough of a common denominator anymore, no. 577 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,720 Absolutely not. It's not enough of a common 578 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,800 denominator. But also we've had this 579 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,120 conversation before. I said it's not just the panels, 580 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,920 it's not just the the leaders that are out there. 581 00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:13,040 The fact that I think a Mizrahi community has to start an 582 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:18,000 organization specifically to speak form, you know, the 583 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,440 Mizrahi Sephardium have to start their own. 584 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,280 And if you but the fact that that already has to happen with 585 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,639 such a small percentage of people in the world is beyond 586 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:31,520 baffling to me. It is so baffling. 587 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:37,159 Even the LGBTQ plus kept adding letters, even them as a 588 00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:39,880 community, they just added more letters. 589 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,320 And but they keep amplifying one another and who they are 590 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,880 underneath this queer umbrella. And we're like, that's 591 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,120 beautiful. We'll support you instead of 592 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,600 taking little things by looking around and this this 593 00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:00,880 conversation that people that don't like us have been having 594 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,840 for so long, especially in the West. 595 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,320 And it's not trickled into to the East, which the the Arabs 596 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,640 have started and, you know, fueled those flames years ago, 597 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,560 long before a white person even came and colonized any country 598 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,960 in Africa. Was that why white people are 599 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,000 Jews? Jews are white. 600 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,160 So it's this ASCII normative thing where when you meet a 601 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,640 black person that's half Ashkenazi or half Safari, right 602 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,520 within our own community, people go. 603 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,720 So the, the American community, a friend of mine said this to me 604 00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:41,200 is very different because they're very tribal, extremely 605 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:47,280 tribal to, to a point where I've been invited to places where, 606 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,360 and I feel it and I'll talk about it openly where I'm made 607 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,680 to feel as though I should be very happy to have been invited. 608 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,840 I, I should be grateful that I got invited. 609 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,120 And I think, but I'm a Jew and you invited other content 610 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:09,240 creators and I'm a content creator and I'm an activist and 611 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:13,640 I'm, but you know, I always joke that I could have had cold 612 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,920 chicken at home. It probably would have tasted 613 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,800 better. But you need a black person or 614 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,000 so many black people sitting in the room. 615 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,920 So the optics of how the world goes, oh see, they are diverse. 616 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,640 Has it worked so far? No, it hasn't worked because 617 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,800 then I'm still going to sit in the back and then have someone 618 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,640 that doesn't look like me, someone that looks like the rest 619 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,760 of the room go and you know who's who sat on stage and said 620 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,840 blacks don't know Jews. And there were about 6 black 621 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,240 people in the conference room and he was dead ass. 622 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,120 Blacks don't know Jews. And I went Huh? 623 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:54,760 I do know who you're talking about. 624 00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,520 Or it was actually what it was, was black people don't know what 625 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,840 Jewish names sound like. That's what that person said 626 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:06,760 that. And I'm like, oh really? 627 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,600 And that's news to me that I. Was like I'm I was the only 628 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:16,320 person that did not have a typical typical Jewish name. 629 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,560 I was the only, everybody else had Hebrew names. 630 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,960 And do you see what I mean? It's it's not, it's not adding 631 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,200 up. And but then if you keep saying 632 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,440 the same thing over and over again and you're speaking in an 633 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,320 echo chamber, of course everybody's going to go. 634 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:37,280 Yeah, that's so true. No, it's not. 635 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:42,240 Look around what? We're so used to speaking to 636 00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:45,400 ourselves in a way where we make ourselves feel better. 637 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:52,840 We're so used to championing and, and rewarding every single 638 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:57,760 minority ally that comes in and says I like you or hey, I, I 639 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,120 love the Jews. You know, I, I like a certain 640 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,720 type of food or whatever. And we're like, don't worry 641 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:07,200 about it. Come spend a day or a whole 642 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,960 weekend in my house and and I will come for Shabbat. 643 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,280 Come for whatever. Are you willing to actually even 644 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,840 invite another Jew that doesn't look like you to Shabbat, but 645 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,920 you'll invite somebody that doesn't look like you who's not 646 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,760 a Jew to your table for a sacred meal? 647 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,520 Do people understand what's going? 648 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:32,160 It's a sacred meal, but you're so much more comfortable 649 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:38,000 inviting an outsider into a sacred space, which is your 650 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,120 sanctuary, which is your home to break bread with than another 651 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,680 Jew. And it's not a racial thing. 652 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,200 That's the thing. It's not a racial thing. 653 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:52,880 And, and the beauty of being in Israel is it's it's not a racial 654 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,160 thing here. Like if, if, if people wanted to 655 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,160 talk about or use that term outside, it was like, well, how 656 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,400 the Safarian feel about the Mizrahi, how they feel about the 657 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,120 Ashkenazi, how they feel about the betas. 658 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,080 Yeah, that's not racism. Because if you put all of them 659 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:09,960 together, you could you could play. 660 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:16,760 We are the world in the back. So we ourselves are not using 661 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,560 the time that we have right now wisely because we're on the 662 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:27,080 defense all the time. And most of the time it's it's 663 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,600 echoed and it's directed in the wrong direction because it's 664 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,200 towards our own as opposed to the people that actually don't 665 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,680 want us here. And then the only thing that 666 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:43,200 brings us together is a massive tragedy or oh, we, we have so 667 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:48,920 much security for when we go to. There's certain things that do 668 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,360 bring us together, but it's not really from joy because we have 669 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,160 this deep sense of generational trauma. 670 00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:01,440 And I think so much, so much damage that the body just reacts 671 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,400 and has a very visceral reaction to everything that's negative. 672 00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,960 And that's how we come together. But what, what, what whatever 673 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,920 happened to rebranding Jewish Joy? 674 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,920 Maybe that's what people rebrand Jewish Joy. 675 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,840 Actually. I want to add something that I 676 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,040 heard recently that I think it's kind of related to what you're 677 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,360 saying. Like this notion that we are 678 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:27,040 more open to an A questionable ally supposedly. 679 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,480 Like this is the cautionary tale of Azalea Banks, right? 680 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,640 Azalea Banks posted three things about, you know, liking Israel 681 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,280 or Jews. Suddenly she was flying on an 682 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,440 all expenses paid trip and staying with like Israeli 683 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,000 millionaires or whatever. And then it took her like a 684 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,320 week, and suddenly she tweeted anti-Semitic stuff. 685 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,960 And the whole community was like, you took crumbs, Right. 686 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,720 So this is what you're raising here. 687 00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:50,320 And the notion that we're more, we're more gracious to these 688 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,360 allies that we don't even know do they stand with us or against 689 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,080 us than we are to Jews in our own community is really like a 690 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,480 gross thing. And the Superior Journal had a 691 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,480 whole. Yeah, The Superior Journal had a 692 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:10,280 whole issue that they titled Money where they posted a 693 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,680 different essays around money. And one of the sociologists that 694 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,840 wrote for them talked about how within the American Jewish 695 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:22,800 community, money is really at the center of how the community 696 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,720 interacts with each other. And how the community members 697 00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:29,560 who feel ostracized, it's often correlated with the fact that 698 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,720 they simply can't afford to participate in the type of 699 00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:36,120 Jewish life you refer to as being grateful for being in the 700 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:36,840 room. Right. 701 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,480 Even though you were always qualified to be in the room just 702 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,920 by the sheer notion that you're Jewish and how the whole Jewish 703 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,080 communal experience is really a money thing. 704 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,600 It's a matter of money and being able to participate. 705 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,400 It's a pay to play game. And how in Israeli life that 706 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,840 just fundamentally does not exist because by surely living 707 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,000 in Israel, you're already playing the game. 708 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,400 And that's something I really think we have to reckon with. 709 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,560 And it really bothers me that this is the case. 710 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:12,080 And when I think about being from the former Soviet Union, I, 711 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,080 I don't talk about this very often, but I have to say that 712 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,000 growing up in the suburbs of Minneapolis, because I was a 713 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,600 Jewish refugee from Ukraine and for the first few years of my 714 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,360 life, my family was on food stamps and lived in Section 8 715 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,000 housing. I didn't have any Jewish friends 716 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,080 because the Jewish kids were not poor. 717 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,040 So I couldn't relate to them. I, I was only friends with kids 718 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,080 that also, you know, lived in the Section 8 building or also 719 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:43,920 came from poor backgrounds. And it only changed once my mom 720 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,600 became a doctor and we started seeing, you know, money, more 721 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,120 money come into the family that I could participate in Jewish 722 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,000 communal life, go to sleep away camp. 723 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,680 And even then, like every camp I went to was on scholarship, and 724 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,680 none of the kids knew that at that camp. 725 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,720 But I always knew that I was different because I I stood out 726 00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:03,000 from those kids. So what you're talking about is 727 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,600 near and dear to my heart. And it's just amplified now 728 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,120 through the paradigm of galas and events. 729 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:14,640 And I too feel that I walk into a room where I believed I was 730 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,760 qualified. And everyone around me is acting 731 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,080 like, well, what are you doing here? 732 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,040 How come you're here? And that really is something we 733 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:23,840 have to reckon with in Jewish life. 734 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,920 I want to pick your brain on kind of the flip side of it all 735 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,160 together. A year ago or so, I had a guest 736 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,160 on my show, Hannah Simpson, who is a trans Jewish woman. 737 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:41,520 And at that time, she talked about her fear of the Trump 738 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:46,040 administration and the, the concern that she has about the 739 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,400 reality for trans individuals once this right wing 740 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,160 administration takes effect. You, on the other hand, have a 741 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,200 completely different vantage point on that as a trans woman. 742 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,920 And I, I want to know how you reconcile that. 743 00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:01,440 I, I want to get your honest take. 744 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,560 Like, does it concern you? If it doesn't concern you, why? 745 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,360 And I think our listener also has those questions that they 746 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:13,040 don't really have anyone to ask. For me, what concerns me as our 747 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:20,920 own community, not being able to put certain fears and, and 748 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:26,120 emotions above being able to sit across from what you consider to 749 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,400 be the evil that wants your demise and having a 750 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,520 conversation. Because to me that already tells 751 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,080 me that you don't want a solution. 752 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,400 If we, if I think back to all the BLM riots and everything 753 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:43,000 else, OK, what happened there was there was a lot going on. 754 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,040 There was a lot of looting. There was a lot of, there was a 755 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,560 lot going on. But at the end of the day, what 756 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,400 was the resolve besides or something that is more race? 757 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,400 It's going to be very different because we're we're a lesser 758 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,800 like you will, we're more of a minority than than the black 759 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,320 community. But there's a conversation that 760 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,120 I have all the time with people that live in fear. 761 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,120 Being trans is already scary, OK, You're scared you're going 762 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:08,720 to be killed. I'm already black and trans. 763 00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:09,720 I'm scared that I'm going to be killed. 764 00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:12,080 I'm already black, trans, Zionist Ajuva. 765 00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:14,440 There's so many things. I could be killed at any moment, 766 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:15,800 but I could also choke on a pickle. 767 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,760 And I'm not saying it sarcastically in any way, but 768 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,080 we're so focused on coming together, having a call for 769 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:27,680 action to stand and yell. So we all feel better because we 770 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,880 all feel that we see each other. And that's something that I 771 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,920 don't feed into. So my thing was, well, what 772 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,400 would you think the solution would be? 773 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,320 Are you willing to put together something and go to the trumpet? 774 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,120 Are you willing to do that? And the answer is always, well, 775 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,480 they won't listen. Have you actually tried, have 776 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,360 you actually stood across from a Republican or somebody that you 777 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,880 consider to be a conservative and had a conversation with 778 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,800 them? Because you can't expect 779 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,400 somebody that's on the other side of the island on the 780 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,400 political spectrum, who's on the so far away from everything that 781 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,120 you consider to be who you are as a person. 782 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,000 What what democracy is, what liberty is, what equal rights is 783 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,880 and everything that you want to hold for yourself. 784 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,480 And then say, I will not have a conversation with them because I 785 00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,200 consider them to be a fascist or I consider them to be a this 786 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,440 when they haven't even gotten to know you. 787 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,760 And it's a blanket statement that both parties use against 788 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,080 one another. You can't be around somebody 789 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,320 that's a Democrat or a liberal because they're crazy and 790 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,120 they've got blue hair and they're like this and da, da, 791 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:27,760 da, da. And then the other side is, Oh 792 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,480 my gosh, they're, they're insane. 793 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,240 I'm a self hating trans person. I, I'm a self hating black 794 00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:34,960 person. I'm a, you know, I'm a Coon. 795 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,000 Then I get called, I get called the worst things when people 796 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,680 realize that I might have different leanings than they do. 797 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,080 But what they also forget is the fact that I come from a 798 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,280 different country, a different continent, a different reality 799 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,720 than what they do. So I have what I think I'm the 800 00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,280 one that's privileged because in terms of education, I've seen 801 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,560 what it's like to not be. And there's something innately 802 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,680 like set from, from from a very young age, almost from birth. 803 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,880 I think with with with the American Society is that it's 804 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,880 either going to be race or whatever kind of minority that 805 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,800 you are. And that's where you hold. 806 00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:14,840 And that's why I think white men and white people have been 807 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:19,040 demonized for so long, because to be able to have to go and to 808 00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,000 apologize to somebody because of what they look like or what 809 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,520 their gender is, whatever, is preposterous to me. 810 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,880 If you want to know something about myself and how I feel 811 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,760 about XYZ, ask me that. Oh, just by the way, since you 812 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,400 happen to be blah, blah, blah, what do you think about XYZ? 813 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,760 Let's have a conversation. We've also lost out on being 814 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:42,760 able to have conversations like that. 815 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,560 The amount of times that I disagree, not just with this 816 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,880 president or, or the administration is crazy. 817 00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,280 Multiple times on a daily basis. But I'm willing to have 818 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,920 dialogue. I'm willing to digest my 819 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,880 emotions, but I'm also willing to look at things where it has 820 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,480 nothing to do with my emotions. And I can look at certain things 821 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,880 in terms of policy. So, so many people that have a 822 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,000 lot of negative things to also say about him or his 823 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,320 administration, whatever. He bought us time as well. 824 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,240 So if you could at least be a one issue person, is it more 825 00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:19,000 important for you as a Jew to be free as a Jew or as a trans 826 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,240 person? For me, it's to be free as a 827 00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:23,000 Jew. Because if I can be free as a 828 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,960 Jew, it means that I'm alive, then I'm able to live as myself. 829 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,680 Because ultimately you can take everything away. 830 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,120 The Jewish part stays. Even as a convert. 831 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,760 Once you're at the mikvah, sorry, no takes these backsies. 832 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,440 Welcome home. Time to get on with it. 833 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,520 And a lot of the trans community and people that I do have 834 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,920 conversations like that. And in the queer community or 835 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,160 the LGBTQ community, however people identify themselves, it 836 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:52,320 always brings up so much anger that I think it clouds anything 837 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:58,480 that they're actually able to see because I'm then seen as the 838 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,120 pariah. But if we're the same and we 839 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:05,320 only have one different thing right or left, how are we 840 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,480 helping? Again, going back to what I said 841 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:14,160 earlier, move things forward. The writing was amazing in the 842 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,440 80s and the 60s and what amazing. 843 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,800 I love people that can still live in in Hippieville in their 844 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,680 heads and think that something like that is going to change 845 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,400 people's minds. We've reached a point in this 846 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,040 world where if people really want, and we see it happening 847 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:35,280 right now with this massive rise in violence as people are 848 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,240 craving a civil war, that's the most disgusting thing. 849 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:42,640 We've reached a point where for something to change, people want 850 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:47,600 for there to be such insanely crazy civil discourse that 851 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,720 there's violence. So to any other trans person, my 852 00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:55,880 number one thing would be can we have a conversation? 853 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,760 And if you can't have a conversation and if you're going 854 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,920 to get rid of anyone that that thinks differently than you, 855 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,640 like we saw happen, especially since 2020, I really then 856 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,640 myself, but also don't have the energy to be around you because 857 00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:16,400 trust me, there's nothing serious about you. 858 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:17,880 It's a you're having an emotional thing. 859 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,240 It's like gas. It'll pass, let it pass. 860 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,880 And then let's talk logically. Well, we just talked about the 861 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,960 importance of having dialogue and the importance of reckoning 862 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,280 with things that you might be uncomfortable with. 863 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,040 This ties also to your activism work where you're kind of a 864 00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,800 contrarian sometimes, especially to the non Jewish world. 865 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:42,560 I guess in the through the paradigm of October 7th, is 866 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:44,920 there anything that you've changed your mind about on the 867 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,000 state of the world, how you feel, anything you believe 868 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,040 differently than you did before? I definitely believe that I see 869 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,880 and experience the world a lot differently. 870 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,560 I have much more clarity and I thought I had clarity before. 871 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:04,080 No, I have clarity right now because I also isolate myself 872 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,960 from people, situations, gatherings, conversations, 873 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,160 anything that doesn't align. I don't do it anymore. 874 00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:15,760 And I think even with, with, with activism or that the whole 875 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:21,640 influencer thing, when in the beginning I, I genuinely used to 876 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,840 believe people when they were like, your voice is so important 877 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,560 and blah, blah, blah, blah. And we'd love for you to come to 878 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,440 this event and we'd love for you to do this. 879 00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:33,320 And I think amazing, I'm not the first and I'm not the last. 880 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,360 The, the, the unfortunate thing I think for a lot of people is 881 00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:43,560 that I don't like being tokenized when you can't look me 882 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,280 in the eye and tell me that you're tokenizing me. 883 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,320 So I never thought that it was me being in a bubble. 884 00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,280 I just always thought that people had far more integrity to 885 00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,280 not lie to my face. And I'm talking legacy 886 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,760 organizations, I'm talking individuals. 887 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,800 I'm talking one person will get an honorarium, but you won't get 888 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,360 an honorarium. Because again, I should feel so 889 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,680 happy and so lucky to have been here and have been invited to 890 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,520 have cold chicken. So now the flip side of this is 891 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:20,520 the reaction to what I'm saying will then be received as either 892 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:27,800 I'm jealous of those certain people or those people that I'm 893 00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,920 referring to have been in the activism world far longer. 894 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,280 And then which is again, it's more lies. 895 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,400 So I'm no longer accepting of people's lies. 896 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,880 And when I say this, I mean, even on a daily basis, if you 897 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:48,480 say or do something, I'm really very cautious of believing 898 00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,960 people. And the unfortunate thing is 899 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:52,920 that it's within our own community. 900 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,880 I didn't think that it would happen within our own community. 901 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,240 And when I specifically say our own community, I mean in the 902 00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:02,880 diaspora, because in Israel, my, my reality is completely 903 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,440 different, very different. There's such a directness and 904 00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,880 there's such a genuine honesty. And the, the best thing about 905 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,400 Israel is that energy is currency. 906 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:14,960 You can have as much money as you want. 907 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,120 You can have as much power as you want, but energy is 908 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:21,080 currency. And if you are on this and, and, 909 00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:27,040 and you reside in this incredible magnetic field of I 910 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,120 think that the strongest frequency on the face of this 911 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:35,600 earth is in this country. So at some point you have to 912 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,400 either lean in or tap out. And I leaned all the way in. 913 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:40,880 Yeah. But one of the things I want to 914 00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,600 push back on that I think is important is sometimes you have 915 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,760 to teach people. Sometimes you have to bring them 916 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:47,880 along for the ride, Whether it's your friends who don't 917 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,800 understand, like sometimes you have to help them understand, or 918 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,360 whether it's legacy organizations that don't want to 919 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:54,760 pay you. And you're like, you know, it's 920 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,040 offensive to have me do all these things when you don't want 921 00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,280 to pay me. Sometimes you just have to smile 922 00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,280 and be like, thank you so much for your offer. 923 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,680 I wish I could accept it, but I can't and here's why. 924 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,080 And that learning moment, that or the teaching moment is really 925 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,320 important because it sets them up forever. 926 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,880 Whereas if you leave them, and I'm not saying you do this, but 927 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,400 if you leave somebody in the dark, they may never learn. 928 00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,440 So you've taken that moment away from them. 929 00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,360 I think that's good. What you're saying, and I'm 930 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,200 going to push right back on it, is that I've been trying to 931 00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,480 bring people along with me from being a child, starting with my 932 00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,200 own parents. And if I think if I can step 933 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,160 away from them and let them be who they are and, and love them 934 00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:38,880 from a distance, that's what I do. 935 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,800 Because that's what that's what works for me on a daily basis. 936 00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,880 Because I'm not hung up energetically on having to 937 00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:46,880 educate people and bring it with them. 938 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,720 I'm not saying anything new that any other minority Jew has not 939 00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:54,680 said or try to do when it comes to legacy organizations that 940 00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:59,440 that the danger of what's going to happen is the revolt to that 941 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,200 is that when all minorities then come together, make sure that 942 00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,160 they have the financial backing that they do to literally do 943 00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,880 whatever that they want to do, Then when a legacy organization 944 00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:15,000 says, would you like to? And then it's well, I know 945 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:19,360 somebody that I was talking to earlier who is, is at a point 946 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,240 where you, they're either going to give them the fee or they're 947 00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:25,160 not. And whenever what they are 948 00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,760 setting up foundation wise for themselves, it'll be seen as 949 00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:30,920 well. This used to be your fee or this 950 00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,160 used to be. But that point in time, you can 951 00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,640 no longer offend somebody like that because they have something 952 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,480 that that's their own. So what's happened in the Jewish 953 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,680 community right now in the conversations that are happening 954 00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:45,880 is that people are no longer going to be asking for a seat at 955 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,920 the table. They're building their own. 956 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:53,680 And it's then further going to ostracize those legacy 957 00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,160 organizations and all of those people that haven't been getting 958 00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:58,640 it. This whole it's going to 959 00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,600 ostracize them. So it's only going to be further 960 00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,520 dangerous. So there's only so much a person 961 00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,720 can can speak and share and attend every single conference 962 00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:12,000 about what do we do in the 10 years of it, what do we do? 963 00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,120 This has been happening for ages. 964 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,160 There's a summit about something all the time with the same 965 00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:21,440 topic, but moving forward, numbers wise, there's a very 966 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:25,000 small, small, small percentage of people that actually come 967 00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:26,520 with a change that had been made. 968 00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,520 Because then otherwise we were having tea sandwiches for six 969 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:34,000 hours, drawing pictures, doing scorecards. 970 00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:37,520 They take in the information for data. 971 00:56:37,720 --> 00:56:41,320 OK, so now you're filing things. I don't think Greta Thunberg's 972 00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,240 going to be very happy about the waste of paper and trees. 973 00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,160 But now you're just filing things. 974 00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,760 But moving forward you'll bring in one or two minorities and 975 00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,400 it's like great, we fill out the DEI list, but then everybody as 976 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,640 a collective, as all tribes, as a community, as one body, as 977 00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:58,640 those she believe that they are of the land of Israel. 978 00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:02,040 But even don't like don't reside here having made Alia will say, 979 00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:07,920 well, we as Jews need to be part of the diversity, equality and 980 00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,520 inclusion. No, because we can't get it 981 00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,120 within our own community, so we can't tell other people that it 982 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,080 needs to be this way. Just like charity starts at 983 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:21,360 home, Tikkun Alam starts at home, educating starts at home, 984 00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,480 all of these things start at home and within our own selves. 985 00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:31,520 But we have not been listening for so long that some people are 986 00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:35,680 going to come along and not ever want to have these conversations 987 00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:37,080 again. They're never going to want to 988 00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,560 come to another event again because they'll be to having 989 00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:43,360 their own events and dealing with their own sub communities. 990 00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,040 That's it. I think where we net out is the 991 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,680 teaching moment is helpful for those who want to be taught, for 992 00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,960 those who will be resistant to understanding. 993 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,080 It's a dead end, which is what you're saying. 994 00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,360 So yeah, I like, I like how we netted out on that. 995 00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,640 Tell me, what do you think your message to the Jewish people is? 996 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:07,280 Acceptance and pride, 2 words that I think we talk about a lot 997 00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,640 but don't really embody because we've forgotten what it's like 998 00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,480 to be Jews. The world will never like us. 999 00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:22,280 OK Kumbaya, they won't. So we need to love ourselves 1000 00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,720 more. We need to be more Jewish, we 1001 00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:29,280 need to be more all up in each others faces. 1002 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:34,480 I think assimilation was was was something that's happened for so 1003 00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,440 long. And in terms of becoming a 1004 00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:41,280 Band-Aid just to exist. But with everything that we're 1005 00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,360 going through and we've been going through for such a long 1006 00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,920 period of time in this escalation between World War 2 1007 00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:51,160 and where we are right now, especially after October 7th and 1008 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:55,120 every single atrocious thing that happened since then and the 1009 00:58:55,120 --> 00:59:00,240 conversations that are happening, the world woe and has 1010 00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,600 turned their backs on the Jews. That's just it. 1011 00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,520 Pardon me. The world's turned their backs 1012 00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:06,120 on the Jews. So you need two things. 1013 00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:07,720 You have to accept the fact that you're a Jew. 1014 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,160 You have to accept it. And you want to talk about 1015 00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,840 acceptance. Hi, I've got a whole list. 1016 00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:14,840 I have to accept this and this and this. 1017 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,680 Great. Just, you know, people, people 1018 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:19,760 in therapy where your therapist is like, you have to take the 1019 00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:21,920 good with the ugly. Why can't we do the same thing 1020 00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,880 with our Judaism? It's not even about being 1021 00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,400 religious. There's a very deep, deep, deep 1022 00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:34,120 meaning of what it is to be a Jew that so many people run away 1023 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:37,680 from as though it's, it's, it's, it's a mark or something that 1024 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:39,800 could be wiped off or taken away. 1025 00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,000 And that's so painful for somebody that came from the 1026 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,200 outside coming in. So I say this as somebody that 1027 00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,400 did convert. I hate having to like announce 1028 00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,200 that as well all the time, because all I ever get asked is 1029 00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,920 like, well, how are you here? Are you Ethiopian? 1030 00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:59,680 Because like and again, not intentional. 1031 01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:02,400 Because then I think we can find pride. 1032 01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,080 We can find pride because then we, once you remember who you 1033 01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:11,600 are, you gravitate towards who your people are and that 1034 01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:17,400 strengthens the core. So then you're not having kids 1035 01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,720 that are being raised right now being scared of of who they are 1036 01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,200 even at home. Bellamy, thank you so much for 1037 01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:27,600 the conversation today. It gives me a lot to think 1038 01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,120 about. Tell me, how can people connect 1039 01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,200 with you and learn more about your work? 1040 01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,360 I am always yelling at people on socials. 1041 01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:41,760 So Bellamy Bellucci on Instagram and what's that? 1042 01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:46,760 The ticky talkie? And yeah, just my name, Bellamy 1043 01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:51,000 Bellucci. And I've also got my e-mail in, 1044 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,120 in my Instagram. So if anybody wants to have more 1045 01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,040 of an in depth conversation, I think that's the best way 1046 01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:58,960 because like I said, I'm, I'm isolating. 1047 01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,760 I think just because it's, it's, it's important for me to kind of 1048 01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:05,640 just keep my energy level balanced because it could be 1049 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:09,080 wackadoodle between living online and living as a Jew in 1050 01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,400 2025. It could be wild. 1051 01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,880 But yeah, reach out. I'm there. 1052 01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:21,040 I do read messages. Don't be creepy, just just lots 1053 01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,640 of love. Lots of like genuine love. 1054 01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,200 Actually, lots of genuine love. That's it. 1055 01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,160 Is there anywhere where people can donate to support your 1056 01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,680 documentary? I think that would be probably 1057 01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:36,640 because I haven't done, I haven't done crowdfunding yet. 1058 01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:42,680 So if they if they go to my Instagram and e-mail me from 1059 01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,320 there, we can have a one-on-one conversation. 1060 01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,600 And I would love that because I want to finish it because it's 1061 01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,200 my whole life story and all the rubbish. 1062 01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:56,320 And I think I'm such a salad that it just tells the story of 1063 01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,640 who the Jewish people are. And it's tells a story about 1064 01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:03,800 resilience, which is who we all are actually. 1065 01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,960 But if you put all of those things in one person, then the 1066 01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,440 whole world is lying because then somebody like me wouldn't 1067 01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:11,400 exist. Voila. 1068 01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:13,840 And I have one final question for you. 1069 01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,120 It's one that I ask every guest. Who would you like to nominate 1070 01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:18,440 for people? Do you want to know? 1071 01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,320 I thought I already did nominate somebody. 1072 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:28,320 Oh, that's a tough one. I'm going to say the person that 1073 01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,360 I, that I nominate and Fleur Hassan. 1074 01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:34,840 Fleur Hassan, I think she's, she's such an incredible voice, 1075 01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:39,840 such a powerful woman, does so much for, for the Jewish people 1076 01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:45,160 and, and Israel, not just in Israel, but internationally is 1077 01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:49,840 an incredible mentor, especially I think for, for young Jewish 1078 01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:55,400 women and, and girls growing up to have somebody that has been 1079 01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,160 in politics, former mayor of Jerusalem and, and just, and in 1080 01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:03,640 terms of diplomacy and knowing how to communicate with people 1081 01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:06,280 and being part of the Abraham Accords, she's an incredible 1082 01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,280 source of knowledge. She speaks multiple languages 1083 01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,000 and she just knows how to get things done. 1084 01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,560 I'm all about women that can get things done. 1085 01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,920 Thank you so much, this is a fantastic nomination. 1086 01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:22,640 I can't wait to speak with her. I need to prepare my hero and 1087 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:26,400 scumbag when I do so. Absolutely, but lucky for me I 1088 01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,440 have many heroes and unfortunately even more scumbags 1089 01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:30,480 to list so. Scumbags. 1090 01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,600 Lots to discuss. Thank you so much, Melanie. 1091 01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,280 Thank you. If you've enjoyed this podcast, 1092 01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:40,480 please go ahead and rate US five stars. 1093 01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,120 Be the first to hear our episodes by subscribing to 1094 01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,960 PEOPLE Do You Want to Know? 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