1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,040 Hello everyone. I'm Diane Grissell. 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:04,920 I'm also known as Silver Disbedience. 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,119 If you follow my blog, this is the Silver Disbedience 4 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,680 Perception Dynamics podcast where we interview really cool 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:13,800 people and let me tell you, you're not going to be 6 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,280 disappointed. Today, my guest is Jack Vaughn, 7 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,880 who's in charge of comedy programming at SiriusXM. 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,480 He is an icon in the comedy space who's been behind the 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,200 scenes. And you might not know who he 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,920 is, but you certainly know a lot of the talent he worked, has 11 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,000 worked with. And we're going to be talking 12 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:37,760 about comedy as a cultural force and as a societal temperature 13 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,360 taker and also pressure release valve. 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,600 So thank you, Jack, for joining me. 15 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,200 Thanks. For having me, Diane, great to 16 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,840 see you. OK, comedy. 17 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,600 I love comedy, and apparently you do too. 18 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,920 Who doesn't? Well. 19 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,400 You know, we could say some people are losing their sense of 20 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,040 humor, but we won't go there yet. 21 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,040 Fair enough, fair enough. How'd you come to comedy? 22 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,599 So I was running independent music labels for about a decade 23 00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:06,280 prior to to getting in the business. 24 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:08,760 And I had always been a fan of comedy. 25 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,680 And the record label I was running was the independent 26 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:14,400 label of the modern swing movement. 27 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,280 If you remember that being hit for about 13 minutes in the mid 28 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,080 to late 90s. And we were doing great. 29 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:26,760 But one day in, I think it's mid 99, the whole world realized 30 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,120 they were tired of swing and the phone stopped ringing and we 31 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:35,120 couldn't sell another album. And so I had always been a big 32 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,320 fan of comedy, had comedy records growing up. 33 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,120 And I saw this guy, Mitch Hedberg on, I think it was 34 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,360 Premium Blend. And he had a joke where he goes. 35 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,840 I got a roll of lifesavers in my pocket and I can't wait. 36 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,920 Sorry, I messed that up. I, I, I, I, I'm doing a 37 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,640 disservice to Mitch and I can't do that. 38 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,800 So he goes, I can't wait to get off stage because I got a roll 39 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,280 of Lifesavers in my pocket and the next one is Pineapple. 40 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:08,320 And it was like that what he had self released an album and I 41 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,400 found it online and I got it and I memorized it. 42 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,160 And I couldn't believe that there was something that good 43 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,800 that wasn't distributed, that wasn't out there. 44 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,400 People didn't know about it. So I basically approached Comedy 45 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,480 Central with the idea of starting a record label. 46 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,760 Now you got to remember that at that time, comedy records 47 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,960 weren't really a thing. No one was putting them out. 48 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:32,720 Yeah, I can't think of any. Yeah. 49 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:35,200 And it was a real challenge because we had to convince 50 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,480 stores to put them in, We had to convince the artists to do them. 51 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,840 And so basically approached Comedy Central with the idea of 52 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,280 starting this label and they were kind of hesitant at 1st 53 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,520 and. What year would this have been 54 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:53,680 about? This is 2001 and I look young 55 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:55,920 now, but imagine me like 25 years younger. 56 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:58,760 I should have been having a propeller hat and holding a 57 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,680 balloon. And so I, I didn't this, this 58 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:05,360 face doesn't carry much gravitas, but the, I, I sort of 59 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,160 pitched them and pitched them for nine months. 60 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,640 There was a, a woman there who was head of business development 61 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:14,000 named Holly Lim. And she, she got it. 62 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:19,440 And I don't, I don't think she necessarily believed in me, but 63 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,240 I believe in the concept. And so they said after nine 64 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,160 months, like we'll give you a little money to try this. 65 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,160 Come, come to New York. And so I came back to New York 66 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,720 and started it. And while it was challenging 67 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,040 because I had to do everything I did the the marketing and the 68 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:39,400 A&R and the artwork and the like and the, you know, accounting 69 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,960 and all this stuff, it was really great because no one was 70 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,680 doing comedy records for the most. 71 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,800 And was Mitch the first one you tested this with? 72 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,480 He was one of them. So the first people we signed 73 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:57,080 were Bobcat Goldthwait, Dave Attell, Jim Breuer, Dame Cook, 74 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,040 Mitch and there there were a handful. 75 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,880 And the Comedy Central had ATV show at the time called Crank 76 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,160 Yankers. It was a prank call show, or I 77 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,600 think they they like they insist on calling it a crank call show 78 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,800 with puppets reenacted by puppets. 79 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,519 And no one was planning to put out the audio. 80 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:19,720 So like, oh, people like prank call records. 81 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,640 So I put out the prank call record and it did great. 82 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,120 And that was a really auspicious start because it gave us a 83 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:26,960 little momentum as we were going into this. 84 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:32,480 And so had to go out to all of the record stores and say like 85 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,520 hey, you should have these, right? 86 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,000 Because at the time people didn't know names of comedians. 87 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,160 They just know like oh, Mitch Hedberg is that long haired guy 88 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,000 with the aviator glasses does the 1 liners. 89 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,320 So we had to spend a ton of money buying, pricing and 90 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,440 positioning at stores to get people's faces out. 91 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,320 These comedians faces out because if they had to go to the 92 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,840 cobweb basement of the store to find the comedy section, even if 93 00:04:56,840 --> 00:05:00,520 there was a comedy section, it's just impossible to find. 94 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,400 But if you can bring it up to the front of the store, people 95 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,920 go like, oh, I recognize that guy from Letterman, I'm going to 96 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:07,960 buy this. And we had to price them very 97 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:09,800 aggressively, just like real cheap. 98 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,040 But it started to build and it started to build and build and 99 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,600 build. And within nine months, I think 100 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,400 the label was profitable. And within three years we were 101 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,920 top five independent label. And one of the best parts about 102 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,720 it is that we got to advertise the records on TV because Comedy 103 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,680 Central had remnant ad space that they couldn't sell. 104 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:33,840 So we got millions of dollars in free advertising by putting 105 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:38,000 these on on television. And the comedians had stand up 106 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,880 specials on Central so we can put lower thirds in saying like, 107 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,720 oh, get so and so's CD in stores now. 108 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,080 And it was just fantastic because it was contextualized. 109 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,800 If you're watching that special, chances are you're going to want 110 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,480 to buy the album. And so yeah, it was great. 111 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,160 And got to do the, you know, the first records from people like 112 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,080 Jim Gaffigan, Amy Schumer, Anthony Jessenlik, Daniel Tosh, 113 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,960 Aziz Ansari, John Mulaney, the the list goes on and on. 114 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,200 And it was, it was a really fun time to be there because it was, 115 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,600 it was really kind of Wild West. And there was all this talent 116 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,720 who is so good and just kind of bubbling under the surface 117 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,440 because we were coming off the observational comedy bust of the 118 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,840 late 90s. And there was this kind of. 119 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,320 That's an interesting phrase. The observational comedy bust. 120 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,400 Yeah. It's sort of like the talking 121 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,320 about how bad airline food is the kind of what we now consider 122 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,440 hacky premises. And what I wanted to do with the 123 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,360 label at that point was kind of recontextualize it because you 124 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,400 had this notion of comedians in T-shirts and Blazers with the 125 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,880 sleeves rolled up on a stool in front of a brick wall. 126 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,800 And I really wanted these to look like punk rock records 127 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,920 because, you know, the people that were coming up were really 128 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:02,240 doing interesting, edgy stuff. And a lot of the the sort of 129 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:04,520 mindset on comedy didn't reflect that. 130 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:09,440 And so it was edgy and interesting and dangerous and 131 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,000 super funny and original. And I want to convey that in in 132 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,720 the packaging and kind of help change the conversation a little 133 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,760 bit around what comedy was. And, and yeah, and it it, you 134 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,480 know, the the comedy scene has just exploded because there was 135 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,880 so much great talent kind of going unnoticed in the 136 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,120 underground. The people who knew comedy knew 137 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,960 it and got it. But in terms of mainstream 138 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:37,880 acknowledgement, there just wasn't it. 139 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,520 Wasn't there? You know, it's so funny when you 140 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,640 talk about how comedy, you know, exploded and the evolution of 141 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,960 it. You know, if you go back and you 142 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,200 think of, you know, the Rodney Dangerfield's or the Jackie 143 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,440 Mason's and Alan King where they were playing at, you know, these 144 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,880 huge resorts, you know, or Las Vegas, you know, or maybe the 145 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,160 Copacabana in New York. And then it advanced to, to, you 146 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:05,480 know, the nightclub scene and, you know, comedians on the road 147 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,040 night after night. I mean, when when I work with 148 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,200 Jay Leno, trying to book him on the college circuit, he was on 149 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,240 the road 350 nights. You were booking Jay Leno on the 150 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:16,400 college? Circuit I was. 151 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,400 Tell me about that. No, no, no where. 152 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:19,560 No, no. I want to hear that. 153 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:26,080 It was just, it was in 1985, and Jerry Seinfeld was on the road 154 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,800 300 days a year. Bill Maher. 155 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,400 Yeah, was another one, Adam Sandler. 156 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:38,120 I mean, it was a great roster and they were on the road 300, 157 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,919 you know, every, every weekend, you know when you'd get the 45 158 00:08:42,919 --> 00:08:44,960 minute. I remember sitting in the room 159 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,120 when Jay Leno's contract was negotiated for $1,000,000 for 160 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,880 his first time, and I don't think he had. 161 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,280 I think he was Johnny Carson's relief person on Monday nights 162 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,800 when Johnny Carson wanted a night off. 163 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,120 So you see that kind of evolution. 164 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:04,680 And then now you've got Jim Daffy again, who you mentioned, 165 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:08,640 who I love. You know what huge arenas, you 166 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,480 know, Sebastian Maniscalco selling at Madison Square Garden 167 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,400 multiple nights in a row, Bill Burke. 168 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:16,440 You know, it's such a wild evolution. 169 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,960 You know, there's then there was this, you know, there's always 170 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,440 been the Saturday Night Live component to it. 171 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:26,040 But when you talk about the ups and downs of comedy, you know, 172 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,640 there were the times when everyone loved those casts and 173 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,120 said, Oh my God, what's happening with this cast? 174 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,920 Is comedy dead? Is it going to be funny again? 175 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:35,480 But there was always the glimpses. 176 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:36,520 Totally. Yeah, Yeah. 177 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:37,720 What do? You think of all that? 178 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,840 Well, it's interesting because as you look at the history, 179 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:45,440 there have been waves of it and there's been ebbs and flows and 180 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:51,360 each time it comes back bigger. When I got into the business in 181 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,680 2001, 2002, let's say, and these numbers are going to be wrong, 182 00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:58,640 but they're not going to be. I mean, I think they're 183 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,400 illustrative of kind of what's happened. 184 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,840 There were maybe 5000 stand ups in the country and there were 185 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,600 300 really good ones and they were pretty easy to identify. 186 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,720 And now say 25 years later, I would say that there are at 187 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,520 least 100,000 comedians in the country and it's really 188 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,520 complicated to figure out who they are. 189 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:23,360 Again, that number is probably wrong. 190 00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:26,440 You're probably not off I. Mean, yeah, I mean it's. 191 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,640 I'm sure my kids think I think I'm a joker. 192 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,600 Stop. You are, I know you, you are a 193 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,760 joker. But it's it's just the industry 194 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,280 has changed so dramatically because, you know, back in the 195 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,600 day, if you got a 5 minute set on Ed Sullivan or Johnny Carson 196 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,160 or even Letterman in the earlier days, your career could be made 197 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,120 because there were three networks, 10s of millions of 198 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,000 people watched it. It was a rocket to stardom 199 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:56,320 today. And even 20 when I started in 200 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,680 the business 25 years ago. It almost doesn't move the 201 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:00,560 needle. If you if you have one of those 202 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:03,840 late night appearances, it's really great to you know, for 203 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,800 your bona fides to say like, oh, these gatekeepers wanted to be 204 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:09,320 on the show. You should probably trust me to 205 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,040 play your club. But in terms of moving tickets, 206 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,560 moving albums doesn't doesn't have any effect. 207 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,840 And there are so many outlets now for comedians to have to 208 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,280 promote. I feel really almost terrible 209 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,800 for a comedian entering the business now because not only do 210 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,240 you have to be incredibly funny and incredibly original, you 211 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,640 have to do all of this stuff you don't have. 212 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,440 You don't have to just do one thing your comedy. 213 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:39,920 You have to have a podcast, you have to do social clips, you 214 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:41,800 have to put out albums. You have to be on the road all 215 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,080 the time. You have to do appearances 216 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,240 everywhere. You have to do all this stuff 217 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:50,880 right now, do sketches online. It's just so much stuff. 218 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,720 And I run into comics who think like, oh, if I just get this 219 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,680 movie role or I just get this TV appearance, it's going to rock 220 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,120 at me the stardom. And that never happens. 221 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:05,320 It's all a confluence of just Rd. dogging it, doing the 222 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,560 socials in the pocket, like doing all of this stuff and 223 00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:12,880 being in front of everybody all the time, which also has a down. 224 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,360 I mean, has a major downside in that when do you have time to do 225 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,360 your comedy? And you, I feel like a lot of 226 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,640 the, the, the comics, when I was starting out in the business, 227 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,640 they had done their thing, just worked in clubs and worked out 228 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,080 their acts for years and years and years. 229 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,200 Yeah, right. And they worked on a specific 230 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,280 act for 10 plus years. Yes, and, and, and they could do 231 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,200 that because they were going from club to club. 232 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,000 I mean that was my first exposure like 79 to 85, right. 233 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,280 I always say, I, I often think of them as the comedy golden 234 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,760 years because you'd go to, I grew up on Long Island and you'd 235 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,440 go to East Side Comedy, which was owned by Rick Messina and 236 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,880 Richie Minervini. Richie Minervini started the 237 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,920 whole thing and he had East Side Comedy and the other one in 238 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,320 Nassau County. And you had, and he just would 239 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,880 bring in the best people and you would have, you know, Eddie 240 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,280 Murphy one night and then Bob Nelson do routines. 241 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,480 And you knew they were going to do the same routines most night. 242 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,080 You went there and you started to memorize their routines. 243 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,600 But they would deliver them different every night. 244 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:22,520 And now I can't imagine the pressure on a comedian because I 245 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,720 just recently watched the Bill Burr special and I thought, OK, 246 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,600 that was pretty good. That was a lot of new content. 247 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,240 I never heard him say any of that before. 248 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,920 That was phenomenal. But I think about the pressure 249 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,880 to come up with an hour and a half show where people are 250 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,600 saying, oh, I've heard him say that before because everyone's 251 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,440 in this. Yeah, exactly. 252 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,800 How do you do it in a vacuum when you have people with 253 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,720 cameras at every one of your shows so hard and you have to 254 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,120 put on social content and you have to do all this. 255 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:54,240 And this is an art form that takes an artist probably 10 256 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,400 years to get mildly proficient at it, typically. 257 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,040 And that's that's not hyperbole. It takes about 10 years to get 258 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:06,040 not bad at it. And it's a, it's a muscle and 259 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,120 you have to do it every night and you have to, you know, eat 260 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,040 it over and over and over again. And it's incredibly hard. 261 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,240 But then when you're competing against so many other people, 262 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,440 because again, back in around 2000, there were sea level 263 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,720 comedians on the road making $150,000 a year and, and living 264 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,280 good lifestyles. Like, how do you do that when 265 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,560 the amount of clubs, the amount of venues for it is finite and 266 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,640 you're competing for spots? Yeah, it's just it's it's really 267 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,120 difficult these days. One of the. 268 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,160 There were only two things I looked for at Comedy Central 269 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:39,320 Records. And this is going to sound like 270 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,600 nonsense and not believable, but it it was the. 271 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,160 It's the honest truth. I looked for someone who was 272 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:49,160 really, really funny and someone who had a very recognizable 273 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,440 voice. Because think of any comedian 274 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,120 who is your favorite you know immediately. 275 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,000 You know their voice. That's Rodney Dangerfield. 276 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,200 Interesting you. Can't get respect, you know 277 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,640 Lewis Black is going to be furious about stuff, you know? 278 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,800 You know what Maria Bamford is going to be like, You know what 279 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,200 Ron Funches is going to sound like? 280 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,360 You know what David Tell is going to be like, You know 281 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,080 almost immediately. The persona is so identifiable 282 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,600 and it doesn't have to be on the nose like I'm Gallagher and I 283 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,480 smash fruit. It could be very subtle. 284 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,680 But it's true, I can. I never thought about that but I 285 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,040 can think of every comedians voice. 286 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,560 Yeah, they're very, very identifiable. 287 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,360 Their point of view is identifiable, and the more 288 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,640 identifiable the better chance of success. 289 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,520 I mean, just whether you love or hate Andrew Dice Clay, he was a 290 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,840 very specific persona and very easy. 291 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,280 Represented him, yeah. Very easy to latch onto or have 292 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:47,560 a protest. And Sam Kinison used the club 293 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,840 used to put him on when they wanted, when like they wanted 294 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,400 the audience to leave by midnight. 295 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,960 It saved him to be the last act to go on because he'd go start 296 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,520 screaming and people would start to. 297 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,800 He's not not everyone's brand of tea. 298 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:03,920 Yeah. Yeah, I totally. 299 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,600 But again, like so identifiable in that and that, you know, the 300 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,880 he he and Judy Tenuta had that kind of like, oh, we're just, 301 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,560 we're we're talking in low voices and that are going crazy. 302 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,280 And so that's very, you know, identifiable. 303 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,680 The problem with that though, in the comedy space is that if 304 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:24,080 you're too identifiable, you burn out because people get 305 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:25,800 tired of that voice very quickly. 306 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,000 And then you have to move on to acting, usually to to have 307 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,240 longevity if you're, if you're a comedian. 308 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,280 And this again, I'm, I'm using broad strokes here, but this is 309 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:37,960 kind of, I feel like true for the most part. 310 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,920 If you're a comedian with a very recognizable voice, you can 311 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:45,160 rocket to stardom, but the longevity typically is not there 312 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,240 because comedy, I feel like is largely about novelty and the 313 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,680 unexpected. And when you get routinized or 314 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,560 you know someone's voice, a lot of the time you get tired of it, 315 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,680 especially if you're oversaturated with it. 316 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,600 So. It is funny, meaning even in 317 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,720 acting, how you can pick up intonation like, you know, I 318 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,720 could know whether it's, you know, Robert De Niro or Al 319 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,079 Pacino, who we can all say are great actors. 320 00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:14,200 They've done great films, but I pretty much know exactly how 321 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:15,319 they're going to act in any movie. 322 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,440 You just know it. Yeah, you know exactly. 323 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,520 You know, totally. You wonder, is it acting or are 324 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,040 they just, are they playing? You know, they're just Joe 325 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,960 Pesci, you know? Yeah, when he went into a comedy 326 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:26,800 role, you know, you know, but. No. 327 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:28,640 That's exactly. Yeah, that's a very interesting 328 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,200 point. What was the best performance 329 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,520 you saw? I'm jealous that I'm a little 330 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,280 too young to have been going to the clubs in in that period. 331 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,360 What was the best performance? There were so many because I 332 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:44,240 lived through Caroline's when Louis Ferrando was, well, first 333 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,400 Louie, he was booking Catch Rising Star, then went to book 334 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,640 Caroline's for years. You know, whether it was Colin 335 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,520 Quinn, you know, doing things, Larry Amoros going through all 336 00:17:54,520 --> 00:18:00,560 the newspapers, I just think Joy Behar had a good routine. 337 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,000 Carol Leafer talking about the airline stewardess. 338 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,000 This was hilarious. You know, bye, bye, bye, bye, 339 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:10,160 bye, bye, You know, you know, or, oh, my gosh, the list goes 340 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,600 on. Chris Rock used to come on stage 341 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,160 with a hoodie all the way, pulled down and walk on stage, 342 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:22,280 You know well like this and say OK, I know you already have 9-1 343 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,200 in your cell phones and it would break up the crowd with this 344 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,160 nervous laughter. He's so. 345 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,000 Good. Oh my God, he was, he was 346 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,720 unbelievable. Eddie Murphy. 347 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,640 I mean seeing him back in the mid 80s. 348 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,200 So jealous I I wore out so many people. 349 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,040 Two or three copies of Eddie Murphy's first two albums. 350 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,640 They're just. And, you know, now I, I mean, 351 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,680 Bill Maher, the interesting watching his total evolution of 352 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,920 the different ways he's approached comedy, Dennis 353 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,960 Miller, you know, the list goes on and on. 354 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,760 I mean, you know, Adam Sandler moving from, you know, comedy 355 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:02,920 clubs to, you know, making movies. 356 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,800 They yeah, it's yeah. God, so much good tell. 357 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,800 It's so, you know, I really, I feel like I'm, I truly feel 358 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,720 incredibly fortunate that I lived through a real golden age 359 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:19,040 in comedy. But I look now like I think 360 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,080 Ricky Gervais. I mean, I can't watch it without 361 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:22,920 choking. I can't be, you know, he just 362 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:25,440 buckles me up because. It's. 363 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,640 It's that candor that I love from anyone. 364 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,520 Yeah. Because I always, you know, when 365 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,880 people get nervous in a crowd or, you know, when I first 366 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,520 approached you about doing this show, I'd love to talk about 367 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:42,440 this part, You know, where some like the legalizing comedy, 368 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,720 which JP Sears was saying, or the censoring of comedy. 369 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,560 We could all say there's a time and place, you know, Jim 370 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,680 Gaffigan, what was at the Al Smith dinner? 371 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:55,800 I mean, he fuck, he was hilarious. 372 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,600 You know the different ways he mailed people. 373 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:03,520 It's why we need that pressure valve. 374 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:09,840 And I think it also comedy makes us think about the things nobody 375 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,440 wants to discuss out loud. But when you hear it, I always 376 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,320 believed if you laughed at it on some level, you agree. 377 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,320 Or you're debating that within you. 378 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,440 Sure. And it could be a joke about 379 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,200 your husband or your wife, you know? 380 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,720 Yeah, No, no, 100%. Well, a lot of people say like, 381 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,360 oh, I get my news from comedy and I'm going don't, don't do 382 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,880 that, really don't do that. But I, I feel like they're 383 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:39,840 comedy is so valuable in that it, they're so creative. 384 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,280 It provides a different way of seeing things. 385 00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:47,240 And sometimes kind of world events get so ridiculous that it 386 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,280 takes someone to have that perspective or making fun of it 387 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,320 to go like, Oh yeah, that is, that is bananas. 388 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,400 Like, why are we, why are we doing this thing? 389 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,680 So I, I really do feel like it's, it's, it's super valuable 390 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,520 in that respect. And you know, there's so many 391 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,720 flavors of it, right? There's there's so many 392 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,600 different ways to experiences, so many different points of view 393 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,360 that yeah. And especially now, I mean, that 394 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:14,080 there's so much of it like it's, yeah, it's, it's just fantastic. 395 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,320 You know, and how it triggers funny interpersonal 396 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,640 conversations. Like if if I'm sitting in the 397 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,880 car with my husband and he knows we're pulling up to some place 398 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,320 and I'm still putting my phone in my bag, he's like, what are 399 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,200 you, Missus Maniscalco? You. 400 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:39,040 Knew we were pulling up here. Yeah, my wife and I have quite 401 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:44,560 literally dozens of lines from comedians that we use with each 402 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,440 other on a daily basis because they're they're so resonant, 403 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:48,640 right? And they're and they're so true. 404 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,520 It's Yeah, it's I can't get. Off a plane without thinking of 405 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,920 Carol Leifer going bye bye bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. 406 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,520 Yeah. And well, and to that point, 407 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,920 it's interesting too, because then, you know, SNL did that 408 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,880 later on And, and now it's, it's kind of in the, it's in the 409 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,760 zeitgeist. And what's, what's I feel like 410 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,640 not talked about a lot is that comedy does have a shelf life. 411 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,240 Because if you're really good and you come up with this really 412 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,560 good insight, it's going to be copied and repeated to the point 413 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,440 where you squeeze all of the, the novelty out of it. 414 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,200 And I, I go back because I collect all sorts of old comedy 415 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,080 records and a lot of them don't hold up, especially by the 416 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,040 bigger names, because the insights were so good and so 417 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,200 interesting. They got repeated over and over 418 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,360 and over again. So the, the, the novelty got 419 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:42,400 taken out of it. And an example of that is I 420 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,440 adore Steve Martin, but he was the funniest thing in in the 421 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,920 world. And you know, I saw him do King 422 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,120 Tut at the AT just for laughs. Oh, really? 423 00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:58,320 A few years back and time is meaningless. 424 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,520 This might be 10 years ago and I was watching it and as a huge 425 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:03,560 Steve Martin fan, I was watching. 426 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,920 I was like, I don't really find the fight because Steve Martin 427 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,720 was in my mind, the first real deconstructivist median. 428 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,560 But now everybody is a deconstructivist comic. 429 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,840 And so how do? You find deconstructivist 430 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,720 comedy. Just sort of taking a meta look 431 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,720 at it. It's a bit hard to describe, but 432 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:28,560 you know, really taking apart the structure of the joke 433 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,960 punchline, convention of the normal and just and rejiggering 434 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,360 it and reformatting it and adding absurdity to it. 435 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,760 And it was so good and he was so good at it. 436 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,360 Everyone kind of adopted that style. 437 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,440 So what was novel when he was doing it is much less so now. 438 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,440 And I can't listen to those records anymore. 439 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,760 And in the same way, which is too bad because my, my adoration 440 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,560 for him is huge, But it, it's, this is an art form that doesn't 441 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,160 stay still, that doesn't that it just always is moving on. 442 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,520 Because when you get comfortable, when people know 443 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,440 where the joke is going to go or have seen it too many times, it 444 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,040 ceases to be funny. And so you have to come up with 445 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,720 a new perspective, a new way of saying things, a new, yeah, 446 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,000 there's, there's been a movement in the last, I would say 10 447 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,960 years of taking a position that is on the surface indefensible 448 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:31,760 and then trying to find a way to defend it like Bill Burr is so. 449 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,560 Interesting. And and finding a funny way of 450 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:35,520 saying it. And that's a. 451 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,600 Really good point. And that's been, that's been 452 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,280 like I've, I've found that some of the funniest comedy because 453 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,960 also by doing that, what a lot of comedians do is they is they 454 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,720 highlight by trying to find a funny way to defend that 455 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:53,080 position, they highlight why that position is still 456 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,960 indefensible. Exactly why it's exactly yeah. 457 00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:59,160 I don't have a good example of that because I'm not smart 458 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,160 enough. But he nailed that in his show 459 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,360 in the recent, the recent special he's got out. 460 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,160 He's I'm trying to think of an example he did, but I know 461 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,520 exactly what you're talking about. 462 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,560 He's really good at that. And that is such a novel way to 463 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,800 look at, you know, to, to perform comedy and, but at a 464 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,320 certain point that is going to get tired and we'll move on to 465 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,320 something else. Where do you think George Carlin 466 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:26,200 fit in with that? I don't know, I think he he was 467 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,120 a he was a force unto himself. And it's hard to pin down George 468 00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:35,880 Carlin because his career had such an arc and he sort of he 469 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,960 moved with the times, which I feel like is why his career 470 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:44,160 lasted as long as it he was so good and updated and reiterated 471 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,920 and you know, and just and changed once things started to 472 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,400 get stale. It was so good. 473 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,440 So I don't, I see him kind of in a league of his own standing 474 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,480 aside from everything because his path was not. 475 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,760 I mean, he did a little Hollywood acting, but he was 476 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,160 just a pureplay. Stand up. 477 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:04,680 Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. 478 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,160 Oh, right, I. Forgot that, it was just 479 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:10,560 interesting to see him there. Like what? 480 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,680 But but yeah, I, I, yeah, he's just a force. 481 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,920 And I, I don't know how he fits in into all that other than just 482 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,320 being a luminary in the business. 483 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,960 But what? What's your prediction on the 484 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,200 arc of comedy over the next few years? 485 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,920 Because as you said, you've got this disintermediation because 486 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,920 you've got all these channels the, you know, the Internet, you 487 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,920 know, are you an Internet famous person or are you, you know, 488 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,120 does somebody know you from TV? I don't know and I wish, I wish 489 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,080 I could figure that out. It's just the prognostication is 490 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,600 tough. My one concern is that there's 491 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,680 so much of it and they're so it's. 492 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,520 It gets crappy. It gets crappy it. 493 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,600 Really does. There's a lot that's just not 494 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,080 funny. It, it's, it's true. 495 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,160 And what has happened was so Mark Normand was one of the 496 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:05,000 first people to use YouTube to put to release a comedy special. 497 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,840 And this was five or seven years ago and everyone, all these 498 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,920 comedians would talk about using the Mark Norman model because he 499 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,160 got something like 10 + 1,000,000 views in the first 500 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,840 month or something. It was enormous. 501 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,840 And no one had, really. Excused my ignorance. 502 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,720 Is he a comedian or was he a producer? 503 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,600 Yeah, I've never. Heard he's a New York comedian. 504 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:29,560 Utterly fantastic checking out Yeah, Mark Normand and So what 505 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,240 comedians did was like, oh, I'm going to drop my it did so well 506 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:39,640 that the next special was on Netflix and it he you know, he 507 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,520 multiplied his ticket sales as a result of how and YouTube and 508 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,720 everybody's seeing it and YouTube was like, whoa, people 509 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,480 like this. We're going to put these into 510 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,840 the algorithm and really feed them to people because these 511 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,280 this is great content that people like that is fantastic. 512 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,200 A lot of comedians put their specials up. 513 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,520 They got a lot of viewership from it, but what happened was 514 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,200 with everything, it got oversaturated with less than 515 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,880 stellar specials. YouTube pulled back the 516 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,960 algorithm. They want to be a less profane 517 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,600 platform now, so that also added to the pulling back. 518 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,680 Which I think is good. I always appreciated the 519 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,560 comedians that could do a great show without. 520 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,080 You don't need the profanity. Yeah, I think it's less 521 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,120 altruistic and more like we have advertisers. 522 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,520 We don't want to, you know, talk about, you know, certain topics 523 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,720 with with, you know, Coca-Cola being the sponsor. 524 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:33,720 But so there's so now it's it's a lot harder to break out on 525 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,600 YouTube than it was before. So again, these things, these 526 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,480 things come and go. And because there's so many 527 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,960 comedians by nature, there's there's a lot of less good stand 528 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,800 up because, again, I feel for these comedians because you 529 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,040 can't just develop your career in a vacuum. 530 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,280 You have to be putting out content from the jump or nobody 531 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,600 knows you. You won't get booked. 532 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,440 Yeah, it's it's a lot harder today to do it. 533 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,080 So to answer your question, I have no idea where it's going. 534 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,400 My concern is that there's and actually it's not really a 535 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,200 concern. I think a lot of of the people 536 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,280 who are doing it are going to kind of fall out and we might go 537 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,840 through a bust period because like we were talking about 538 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,840 before, there's always been waves of progressively bigger 539 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,040 comedy cycles and. Which is you might like music, 540 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,960 you know, when you have bands that were the one hit wonder, 541 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:31,080 you know, and, or a band that put out a great album to follow 542 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,520 that up with the second grade album is tough. 543 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,000 And in comedy, you're talking about a 45 minute set, 100%, you 544 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,360 know, or hour and a half if you're trying to sell out 545 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,880 Madison Square Garden, you know, tough. 546 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,440 It is to follow. That is a really great point 547 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,240 too, because I come from the the kind of the punk rock world. 548 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,240 I had a punk rock record label in the late 80s and early 90s 549 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:59,280 and prior to Nirvana, Smells Like Teen Spirit, punk rock was 550 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,680 just operating in its own sort of the asthma and the 551 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,120 underground and and there were these bands around the country. 552 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,840 Again, pre Internet. They were just doing their own 553 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,400 thing and their own regional markets and they were touring 554 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,800 and really the only communication was fanzines. 555 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,040 And but the great part about that is they were coming up with 556 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:23,360 their own unique style and art form, just without any influence 557 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,000 or hopes for success or caring for success. 558 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,800 So the art was really pure and really good. 559 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,960 Then Nirvana broke and a lot of the big bands in the underground 560 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,520 became famous because they were so good and people wanted, you 561 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:42,200 know, agitated guitar rock. But what happened was all of 562 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,440 these bands from who were who were performing the underground 563 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,920 time got got famous. And then other people came in 564 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,920 like other people who saw that team spirit feel like, Oh my 565 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,480 God, this is great, I want to be part of this. 566 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,080 Yeah. Got into bands and some of them 567 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,680 could, or you had, you know, heavy metal bands in Los 568 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,840 Angeles, you know, stop using Hairspray and stop start wearing 569 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,720 flannel and moving to Seattle and starting and grunge bands. 570 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,680 And so you saw this small scene explode. 571 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,960 And then all through the mid 90s there were a, a preponderance 572 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,960 like there's all these bands getting signed and there were 573 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,600 hundreds and thousands of alternative rock records being 574 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,360 released and they were all fine. They're pretty good. 575 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,560 And it led to an over saturation and then kind of a collapse in, 576 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:37,320 in sort of the mid 90s, which I feel like gave way to the this, 577 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,320 you know, swing and ska movement that we that we were running for 578 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,280 because people just, it was, it was a reaction to all of that 579 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,480 sort of oversaturation of punk rock. 580 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,680 And I feel like there's a great correlation with comedy because 581 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,800 we're at this point now, you know, you have a lot of these 582 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,920 new comedians who grew up on a lot of these luminaries in the 583 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,520 in the early aughts. And just we're getting this 584 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,840 oversaturation because it's such an appealing genre. 585 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,880 And you know, they're, they're not huge barriers to entry to 586 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,920 it. So I feel like we're kind of in 587 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,280 the oversaturation point and I don't know what that's going to 588 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,360 lead to, whether it leads to sort of a waning of interest in 589 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,960 in the genre or or what. But I mean, the good news is 590 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,720 there's ostensibly more talent than ever in this business, and 591 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,440 I think it's going to lead to some amazing comedy down the 592 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,680 road. What do you think create those 593 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,240 breakout moments for a comedian today? 594 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,600 Hard to say. Hard to say because what I've 595 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,960 seen, and again, this is not, this is not universal, but the 596 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,120 real difference between a really good comic and a great comic is 597 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:56,320 about 15%. And I've watched comics for 598 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,400 years kind of struggle and they're good. 599 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,200 But then at a certain point usually comes over A234 year 600 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,920 period, they really crystallize their voice and that rockets 601 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,320 them to greatness. So I don't know that there is 602 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:18,760 one thing that that is is going to make someone big. 603 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:25,400 I think it's years and years and years of crystallizing the voice 604 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,120 and joke writing and just propelling them to to 605 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,480 superstardom. Yeah. 606 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,760 I don't know if I don't know if you can answer this so you can 607 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,920 say you can move on like a politician. 608 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,720 Go to another question, let me let me try not to. 609 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,600 Be a But I'm just curious, you know, when you're thinking about 610 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:46,080 Comedy Central programming, what what what are you looking for of 611 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,200 where you're saying, OK, this, this is good or this should go 612 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,120 on at this time of day or that time of day because of all the 613 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,920 different things that go into what you choose for programming. 614 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:03,960 So I I am not the the programmer at Sirius, I would probably be 615 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,520 terrible at it. We have a great talented team of 616 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,840 people who do the programming but and also people who I don't 617 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,080 do the evaluations. We have a great evaluation team 618 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,600 of people who listen to this. I'm more on the deal making side 619 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,280 I see in my career because I don't. 620 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,560 Trust. So who would you make a deal 621 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,280 with? What would it take to make a 622 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,800 deal with Jack? Well, in any aspect of your 623 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,760 comedy life, what in any venture you're doing, what are you 624 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,440 looking for in that talent? Do you know what it's? 625 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,719 It's going to sound disingenuous to say it's the exact same 626 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,520 thing. You have to be really, really 627 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,679 funny and really, really unique and identifiable. 628 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,199 I I think if anything, that might be the one thing that 629 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:50,760 stays constant in this business because this business changes 630 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,120 almost completely every 9 to 18 months. 631 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,760 Again, that sounds like hyperbole. 632 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:58,880 It really. Is why? 633 00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:00,520 Because how do you? Why do you? 634 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,800 Why do you say that? Because you'd think that an 635 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:09,760 entire industry can't change that completely in that short a 636 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,000 period of time. But there are always new 637 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:18,280 outlets, new ideas, new buyers of content, you know, 638 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:23,800 distributors and and broadcasters are going in and 639 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,600 out of business. When I got to Comedy Central, it 640 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,360 was one of the proudest days of my life because Comedy Central 641 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,320 was so pivotal for me in my life. 642 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,120 It was the place you went for comedy and and, but and. 643 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,720 Innovative. Yeah, exactly. 644 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,600 And, and for, for years and, you know, it had been declined for a 645 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,320 minute. And then Netflix has been on the 646 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,640 ascendant and other outlets and just things come and go. 647 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:55,360 And it, it was just, you know, it, it who knows? 648 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,640 Like the, the platforms change, the way you distribute comedy 649 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,480 changes. Do you put it on YouTube? 650 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,760 Is Spotify going to come in and do video? 651 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,120 Is, is Amazon going to be more in the comedy space? 652 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,360 What's going to happen? Like, we don't know. 653 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,120 But they're always new buyers and there's, there are always 654 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:15,560 companies that are, that are in decline. 655 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,120 And so you just have to keep your ear to the ground and 656 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,360 figure out, OK, where is this going to go? 657 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:24,880 Where have the paths been blazed? 658 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,680 Where do we think this is going to go for the future? 659 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,800 And I don't envy anybody that because it's, it's, it's, it's 660 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,720 in such a constant state of flux that like who knows? 661 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,080 You know, at the, when I got into this business in about 662 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:44,120 2000, 2002, CDs were the number one format, right? 663 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,160 And CDs in hindsight were kind of a nightmare because you had 664 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,000 to manufacture them. You had to warehouse them. 665 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,280 You had to do color Seps and pricing and positioning and 666 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,640 listening stations and make sure that they weren't if something 667 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,320 sold out, you had to have more inventory. 668 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:04,200 And then it became digital and it was all iTunes and the cost 669 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:07,960 to shoot or to record an album dropped dramatically. 670 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,560 And then no one was doing TV specials. 671 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,800 And then there became a lot of outlets for TV. 672 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,320 And the cost to shoot a stand up special dropped from like 673 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,200 $150,000 to now you know, you could shoot a special today for 674 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,680 five, ten, $20,000 and they look great and there are a lot more 675 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,520 outlets for it. You can have the world see it on 676 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,000 YouTube and that is as an artist is utterly fantastic. 677 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,600 But the downside is, and there's always a monkey paw downside is 678 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,000 that everybody can do that now, right? 679 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,480 And so how do you differentiate, differentiate yourself among all 680 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,800 of the people who are putting out this this content? 681 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,000 So anyway, I don't know if that answers your question. 682 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,720 I think that was a politician. No, it does. 683 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,000 You answered it well. I have a question for you also. 684 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,000 Then you asked me about my favorite show. 685 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,000 Do you have a favorite show that comes to your mind? 686 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,840 You probably have many, but what would be some that? 687 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:05,200 So I mean, there are there are so many and it's not really 688 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:10,640 often the ones that are sort of the big landmark ones in 689 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,240 history. They're just nights that are are 690 00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:16,400 magic. I remember seeing John Mulaney 691 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:21,160 for the first time and just going what this is so good. 692 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,760 He his voice is so amazing, so unique and so talented. 693 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,840 The night I produced a record with Dave Attell called Skanks 694 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,440 for the Memories, and this was one of the first records we 695 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,280 produced. It's very. 696 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,360 Punk name. It's one of the best comedy 697 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,000 records ever. And we recorded it at the Comedy 698 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,320 Works in Denver on Halloween. And I, I remember flying into 699 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,680 Denver and there was this stuff called freezing fog and just 700 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,680 driving through and it was eerie and crazy. 701 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:56,520 And at the shows, people had been drinking since about noon 702 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,560 and they were all coming in costume and the mood was just 703 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,040 electric. And Dave was crushing. 704 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:05,240 Every crowd was just bringing down the house. 705 00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:08,600 I remember one night there were it got so rowdy, two women were 706 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,640 escorted away in handcuffs and it was just out of control. 707 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,000 And I always have a fond retroaction of that. 708 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,400 And there were lots of great Hedberg nights and. 709 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:25,120 Yeah, but just, I guess for me it's it's seeing a comedian I 710 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,520 wasn't really familiar with and just going wow. 711 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:33,080 Because it's really easy for, I mean, not maybe not easy, but 712 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,720 just often times you could just tell, you could see a comic and 713 00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:38,960 they have it, they have the, the energy, they have the point of 714 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,920 view, they have the timing, or it just works. 715 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,240 And it's kind of transcendent because humor is everything for 716 00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:47,000 me. It's how I deal with stress, how 717 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,760 I deal with trauma. And it's a lot of people think 718 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:54,680 it's inappropriate to deal with like, like negative topics in a 719 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,520 humorous way, but I find it's the best way to address things 720 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,960 and I just love it so much. I think it released that nervous 721 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,560 energy. It's like if you saw somebody 722 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,880 fall down a staircase. How many times is somebody 723 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,880 standing there laughing? I think. 724 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,240 Thinking about is objectively hilarious to me and I don't I 725 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,880 mean, it's it's just one of those things because yeah, I 726 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,280 just especially with tragic events, to be able to deal with 727 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,960 it. I mean, not in the moment, but 728 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,520 just with humor is is kind of the only way for me to process 729 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,040 it. Otherwise it would just be too 730 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,280 too sad, too too tough. You know, it's interesting you 731 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,680 mentioned that because if I had to pick you just triggered 732 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,120 because I was sitting here thinking what was my all time 733 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,800 favorite show and I might even get teary when I tell you this, 734 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,600 there was no one there that couldn't have been teary. 735 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,080 In recollection was sometime after September 11th. 736 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:54,280 Robin Williams played at Carnegie Hall and Roy and I went 737 00:40:54,280 --> 00:41:01,240 with another couple and it was a fantastic show. 738 00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:11,240 But how it wrapped up at the end, I'll never forget it. 739 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:18,480 How do you wrap it up? Talking about the resiliency of 740 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:26,440 New York. And it was just one of those 741 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,760 moments where you say This is why I love comedy and it's also 742 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,840 why I loved Robin Williams because he could take everyone 743 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:40,080 from that laughter and gently give everyone the biggest hug. 744 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,600 I mean, it was a it was that pressure relief, that societal 745 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:50,800 pressure relief that to me, comedy is that magic medicine. 746 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,920 So valuable, so valuable. Yeah. 747 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:59,360 And he, he was so great at that taking, taking, you know, arcs 748 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:06,040 and going from that mania to seriousness and warmth and and 749 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,720 everything. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. 750 00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:10,080 I, I, I went to, to one of those those chronicologists. 751 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,640 I remember when I was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 752 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,240 It's. It's such a, it's such a skill 753 00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:17,440 to be able to do that, you know? Yeah. 754 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:22,040 And to make somebody laugh about things that are, as you said, 755 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,320 you used a word before, I can't remember what it was, the 756 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,200 deconstruction of things that are not funny, they're horrible 757 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:30,720 in society, they're wrong, right. 758 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,240 But add that sense of humor, make somebody laugh, bring it 759 00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:39,520 around, almost agree with it, you know, drive it so home that 760 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,760 you're almost saying, I can't believe they're saying this, you 761 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,680 know, how could they say this? And then they Zing it and twist 762 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,000 it in that other direction. It's, it's such a yeah, it's 763 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,960 such a unique and incredible skill. 764 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,520 It's like, yeah, I just, I just love it so much as an art form 765 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,360 and I always have. And I'm just thrilled that I get 766 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,960 to be a part of it tangentially because I'm not talented. 767 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:08,280 I wish I could do it, but just I love, I love being a fan of it 768 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,200 and helping to be able to amplify it. 769 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,720 What do you Since you're on the pulse, you've really picked out 770 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:16,880 a lot of different comedians over the years. 771 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:21,520 Since you know, noticed talent, help nurture talent, recorded 772 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,040 talent. Where do you think things could 773 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,200 go next? What are other areas within that 774 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,640 world of entertainment? You know what what? 775 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,240 What goes beyond punk? What goes beyond rock? 776 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:37,640 What goes beyond comedy? Well, it's, it's funny because 777 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,400 one of the few things I've been pretty successful at my career 778 00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:50,280 is identifying interesting sort of niche areas that are doing 779 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:55,480 really interesting stuff and helping to to amplify it. 780 00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:02,480 I feel like right now magic as a category is kind of in that 781 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:08,280 space. New York is a big Ground Zero 782 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,680 for a lot of amazing magic talent. 783 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,920 And there are a lot of similarities in my minds with 784 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,520 comedy in that I feel like we're coming off the the observational 785 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,040 comedy bus equivalent in magic. And there are a lot of really 786 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:26,280 cool and innovative effects artists doing really cool and 787 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,680 innovative stuff, just kind of mind blowing tricks. 788 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:34,760 And magic as a genre is just kind of bubbling up into the 789 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,080 under the surface. Like people don't think about 790 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,560 going to a magic show the way they do think about going to the 791 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,960 movies or stand up show or even axe throwing, you know? 792 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:50,600 But there is a small group of just really, really talented 793 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:55,880 magicians who are doing innovative new stuff in a in in 794 00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:01,600 new ways. And I really think that magic 795 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:07,720 has the potential to be the next big category and have shot a 796 00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:12,400 series of seven special or sorry of of eight half hour specials, 797 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,760 multiple magicians. You were a part of those. 798 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,800 And let me just say for the record, I don't know what 799 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,000 cameras to look at. Diane was awesome on the show. 800 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:30,640 The the best balls here ever and we've also shot 7 full hour 801 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:36,120 magic specials just on spec and are trying to to find a home for 802 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,720 them because the world needs to see this and you know I'm wrong 803 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:43,560 about all sorts of stuff. I'm really hoping I'm not wrong 804 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,840 about this because it's just a great form of entertainment that 805 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,440 has not gotten it to do I think in recent years, you know, for. 806 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,960 Since I moved to the city over 35, more than 35 years ago, 807 00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:02,040 about, I started hosting an annual Christmas party, holiday 808 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,200 party, and it did. It's just gotten bigger and 809 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,680 bigger and more fun. And I started to maybe 20 years 810 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,560 ago, I started to have a music magician who would walk through 811 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,200 the party and, you know, intermingle with everyone. 812 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,640 And I am blown away when you have these magicians, first of 813 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:24,000 all, that can work in the round. Yeah, that can pull lifesavers 814 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,320 out of the air, you know, fly them around like Saturn. 815 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,480 And I'm telling you, there are no strings around that 816 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,680 lifesaver. So how that lifesaver is flying 817 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:37,640 around the air, that's magic, you know, Or I'm still reeling 818 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:44,520 over Matthew Furman pulling out my engagement ring from, you 819 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,600 know, those old key chains that used to have the hard metal 820 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,000 clasp? They'd be like 4 across in that. 821 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:50,720 Fold. Yeah. 822 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:52,240 And like a folding leather wallet. 823 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:54,720 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we're talking, and he 824 00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:58,280 asked for my engagement ring. And I gave it to him nervously, 825 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:06,280 you know, and it ended up in his back pocket in one of those 826 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,640 class that I remember as a kid, breaking my fingernails. 827 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,800 Everyone would be like, oh, can you get the keys? 828 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:12,800 Oh, I know. Exactly what you're talking 829 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,280 about. They were impossible to slip on 830 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:14,960 there. Yeah. 831 00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:17,920 Now how did that happen when we were all standing around? 832 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,320 You can only say magic. Yeah, yeah. 833 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,960 It's it's, you know, or. Someone guessing someone's 834 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,640 maiden name. The Mentalists, The stuff those 835 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,480 guys do. So skillful, so skillful. 836 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:39,280 And so we have, we have a few magicians on the roster and the 837 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,640 I, I never ask how they do an effect. 838 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,520 I try to figure it out. But the I know the work that 839 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,320 goes into it, we have, we have these these magicians who work 840 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,320 for 6-9 months on an effect and stay in their apartment for 10 841 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,760 hours a day for six to nine months, perfecting 1 trick. 842 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,560 And what one of some of the pushback we're getting from TV 843 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,000 networks who are saying no to our magic specials is that 844 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:12,040 everyone thinks that magic on TV is just camera tricks. 845 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,080 So magic doesn't work on television, which is. 846 00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:19,440 I don't know, Siegfried and they got their start on watch. 847 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,120 I mean, yes, they were in Las Vegas, but the world was 848 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,040 watching them on TV. Exactly. 849 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,600 It's I didn't question that it was magic. 850 00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:29,560 It's nonsense. And what we, the way we want to 851 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:34,040 help reframe the conversation is like, no, this is a craft that 852 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,040 people do. And the notion of having it be 853 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,360 camera tricks or AI or special effects is anathema to what this 854 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,360 is, which is a, it's a craft. It's people who are skilled 855 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,360 craftspeople doing this amazing craft. 856 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,520 And we just want to to help amplify that because it's just 857 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,520 you should see some stuff. And you have, Oh my gosh, I 858 00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,160 would love it because I'm just blown away by magicians. 859 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,840 Magicians and comedy. So it's an interesting tie in 860 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:08,760 your making because it's it is, well, to me, magicians, yeah, 861 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,160 I'm sure they practice, but to me, they're magicians. 862 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,320 It's magic. And I can't because I can't 863 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,160 imagine it. Yeah, it's, it's it's 864 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,360 jaw-dropping what they can come up with and the way they figure 865 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:23,360 out how to solve problems. And yeah, so hopefully this is 866 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:28,000 something that will get its due in the mainstream on a bigger 867 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,200 scale because there are some shows. 868 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,120 I would watch that. I would love to see that the 869 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,400 whole series. Well please do, I hope there are 870 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,400 1,000,000 more like you. I hope they get on the air. 871 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,400 I mean, I could see that as a Netflix series that people would 872 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,400 tune into or yeah, Paramount Plus. 873 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,200 It's he needs to get onto one of those. 874 00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:52,800 Totally, yeah, it's good stuff. So hopefully that's that's where 875 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,600 that's the next big thing. Very cool. 876 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,640 Well, Jack Long, my gosh, what a pleasure this has been. 877 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,200 And time. Goes too fast. 878 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:01,600 Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. 879 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,040 This has been so much fun. I appreciate. 880 00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,880 It thank you. We got to talk about two of my 881 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,680 favorite topics, comedy for sure, and magic. 882 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:10,720 So much fun talking about. Thank you so much for having me. 883 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,080 Thank you everybody. I'm Diane Grissell. 884 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,640 This has been the Silver Disobedience Perception Dynamics 885 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:21,440 podcast, and my guest has been the amazing, talented, creative 886 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:26,200 Jack Vaughn, who is somebody you want to watch. 887 00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,000 So there will be all kinds of links below this podcast. 888 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,320 You're going to want to pay attention. 889 00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:31,880 You may even want to get in touch. 890 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:33,920 I don't know if that'll help you or not, but you might. 891 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,600 All kinds of info about him below this podcast. 892 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,800 Thank you very much. Thank you, Jack. 893 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,080 Thanks, Diane. Thanks everyone. 894 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:46,160 Subscribe.