Hello everyone, I'm Diane Griselle.
I'm also known as Silver Disobedience, and this is the
Silver Disobedience Perception Dynamics podcast.
And we're sitting in iconic Manhattan center.
So great mojo here, super Juju, and I'm excited to have a very
interesting episode with you. What we're going to be talking
about is this, and I'm going to look at some notes because I
want to make sure I get all these statistics correct because
they're very fascinating to me. Did you know annually in the
United States alone, the fashion and beauty industries combined
are valued at a whopping $475 billion, 55,000,000 US
millennial women. We're going to take the group
of, let's say age 27 to 42 are each spending on average $6000
each, or about 260 billion annually.
Those are big numbers. Jump to my age group.
We'll say the women aged 57 and up and you add another 155
billion into the annual spend on fashion and beauty items.
So that's about $3700 per woman aged 57 plus.
Yet here's where this topic gets interesting and what we're going
to start to look at today. Most advertising caters to, or
shall I say features the 18 to 28 year old female demographic.
Now that demographic spends 68 mil, excuse me, 68 billion, or
about 4000 annually. So that's a big drop compared to
either of the other two. So I'm going to be talking today
with Charlotte Reardon. She's a Wilhelmina model and she
is bringing an entirely new look to the runway and has been an
advocate for really showing all kinds of women, all kinds of
shapes, athletic, tattooed, different.
And it's working. It's getting the attention of
advertisers, companies worldwide, and certainly a lot
of magazines. She's graced the pages of many
of the glamour magazines that you might imagine, and we're
going to be talking about modeling the industry, the money
and other ventures. Welcome, Charlotte.
Hi. Diane, thank you so much for
having me. I'm so glad to be here.
It is so much fun to have you here.
You have had a really interesting background.
You didn't start as a model. I didn't know Diane.
Well, you know how I started. Well, let's talk about that.
How did you start? Yeah, so I came to America as a
dancer, as a struggling dancer, almost 17 years ago to the day,
quite literally. Yeah.
My, I think my anniversary is coming up like this week.
And I started out auditioning nothing, you know, yadda, yadda,
yadda. Like everyone else that comes to
New York is like, I'm going to make it in New York.
And I eventually became, among other things, a Rockette.
And that was kind of what I guess catapulted my career and
from dancing. Wait a second.
We can't just go. I became a Rockette because I
have to pause a second there because seriously, I've seen the
Christmas show and a few other Rockette shows at different
times of the year and and the symmetry, the I can't imagine
the stress of being a Rockette. Yeah, that's why I was it for
one season only. It only happened for a short
time. And you know what's so
interesting? Diane is obviously I'm British,
so coming from England, I go home and I'm like, hey guys, I'm
a Rockette. Nobody knows what that is.
So it's like it's a big deal over here, but you go back to
England, they're like, OK. And yeah, so it it's definitely
hard work. I think I got very lucky because
I didn't do the lining up, the audition process, the yadda,
yadda, yadda. It was me finding one way in,
which was literally a flash mob at Christmas in August, and
finding, you know, whoever was in charge there and, you know,
just working your way up. But yes, definitely the
rehearsal process is, for want of a better word, sorry, a
nightmare because everything has to be completely perfect,
literally by the inch or less. And yeah, from there, moving on.
I think my dancing career got cut shorter than anybody.
Well, everybody always wants it to last forever, right?
But let's be honest. And my father would always say,
what are you going to do when you can't dance anymore?
And I say, yeah, but Dad, I'm going to dance forever.
I'm going to dance forever. And about you?
Still have some pretty good moves.
Well, they just might not be on the stage.
Yeah, it's not exactly the same, but at about.
You do a mean Macarena. Thank you, I agree.
I highly encourage you all to follow Charlotte.
We're going to have links for her, but you've got to go back a
year or two and find her doing the Macarena.
I promise it's priceless. I can.
I'll redo it for you. It'll be better this time.
So, yeah. And then moving on from there,
you know, at about 24 or 25, I was kind of lost for what to do,
really lost. And you know, although I have a
great upbringing, great school, I didn't really have any
direction because I was so obsessed with being a dancer.
So once that stopped, I felt like I'd kind of lost my
identity, you know, Because when you do something so much at a
young age, you kind of become it fully.
I don't know if that makes sense.
Yes, it does. You really?
So engrossed, Like all my friends for dancers, my
boyfriends for dancers, my roommates for dancers.
Everything was so dance, dance, dance oriented, like all the
videos I watched, yada yada, yada.
So for me, from there, I was very lucky again, but I pursued
a lead from a family friend in London for a modelling agency.
So I was like, well, I guess I could be on a talent agency.
Like, that's the same as dancing, right?
Turns out you and I both know how different modelling is to
anything else on the planet and different to what anyone else
thinks modelling is that isn't in the industry.
So that's a conversation for another day, maybe because it's
a long a long one, but yeah. So getting signed with MSA in
2010, I think it was, yeah, 2010, which are now state
management. So they changed hands probably
like 8 or 9 years ago. But in 2010, it was MSA and it
was the biggest fit modeling agency, and I didn't even know
what a fit model was. Yes, I think that would be a
good one to explain to everyone what is a fit model, because
it's a very unique specialty in the world of modeling.
It really is. And it's, in my opinion, I call
it the James Bond of jobs in the modelling industry because it's
the one that is so fundamental to fashion, in my opinion.
I mean, literally without fit models, you do not have
garments. Whether it's AI generated,
whether it's done on a mannequin, whether it's done on
a human, it's still a fit model. And I also believe that it's
like the superpower that's been holding it together and the one
that nobody knows about, Diane. Exactly.
Nobody knows. They say, Oh yeah, you're a fit,
you're a fitness model, you're a fitness model.
That's exactly it. Absolutely.
Except those opposite a fitness model because if I was fitness
and old muscles galore I would never get hired because the
majority woman isn't doesn't look like an action man so.
Although you are incredibly fit, so we're going to talk about
that too in a minute, but. First thing that, but let's
elaborate so. What is a fit model?
What does a fit model do? Yeah, I think it doesn't.
A fit model is many, many things.
But what I will try and say in a sentence or two is you're
essentially a human mannequin and you work at the back end of
a fashion house with a production assistant or a
production designer and you are helping construct the garments.
So every, every item of clothing that you're wearing that anyone
on the planet is wearing has been approved by a fit model.
So you help with the measurements, you help how this
is lifting, you help how long the sleeve is going to be.
You essentially are a certain size.
And I was a certain I was between A4, a six and at one
point even made it to an 8 depending on the brand.
And you fit an exact set of measurements.
So most of the time it was a straight size 6, which is like a
waist 2728 and it's essentially the mid size of the brand that
sells. Now, is that size 6 when you say
you fit a size 6, is that a size 6 for Calvin Klein?
The same as? OK, so let's talk about that.
So each brand, which is what you notice in stores, each brand has
their own sizing. And something I will say to try
and solidify what a real fit model means, because it it is
kind of open, it's kind of a creative as well at times
because sometimes fit models just test fabrics and sometimes
fit models just do something called a fit test, which means
you're trying on a final sample size.
But for me, I usually worked with most of the brands that I
had, and I mean, you name it, I've worked with them.
Fit modeling. I mean, you could name every
brand under the sun and I could tell you I've either been to a
casting or work with them in some capacity.
But what you're doing is you're starting like, let's say you
want a T-shirt, Diane, and you have your production assistant,
you have your design team, you have the fabrics, you have
everything. And then you have the fit model
because that's the person that you make the clothes on.
So it's the beginning to end process essentially as a fit
model. So there's no photo shoots,
there's no hair and makeup, there's no runway shows.
You're in a fit test, you're in a room, you're doing a corporate
job. It's a nine to five or whatever
it is. So that hopefully I've made that
clear enough for your listeners to understand what that is.
You can Google it and they'll give you a few other answers,
but essentially you're a human mannequin.
And for me, what I was, for example, I guessed jeans, I was
a size 6, I would say straight apple bottom.
Jeans, I was a four back in the day, you know, because it's
slightly curvier. Calvin Klein.
I was always a 6G3, which is kind of the umbrella that has
Calvin Klein, Karl Lagerfeld, CK Performance, the Gap, a bunch of
other brands. I was between a four and a six.
So I would shuffle my way through the floors.
It's on 5th Ave. and being different sizes because
depending, it's really all on sales, isn't it?
So depending on what sells the most is what size I would fit
for. So like, let's say, for example,
years ago, I used to fit for White House Black Market, which
is slightly bigger sizing in terms of like it was what you
call Missy or contemporary. And Missy is a term for somebody
that has had children or is older than 29, let's say.
So your body changes after children.
I believe it does. But I would still fit that Missy
and contemporary is more like imagine a Forever 21 or a
slightly younger brand, which is for 20s or younger.
So those were the difference in White House Black market was
more Missy and for me I would be a very small size in White House
black market because of the way in which they graded the sizes.
But I would still fit for them because size fours and sixs were
the most that sold and that is how a fit model usually is
determined. So I hope.
Fascinating. That was a good education.
So when you're working as a fit model, I guess every measurement
becomes crucial and you really have to stay very static on the
line, not flexing above it or below it.
That's a challenge, yeah. Definitely a challenge, but I
also feel like when I first started, I was so regimented and
I had, you know, little to no clients.
I went through an array of agencies and at first was like,
oh God, I had one or two clients, right?
But I was so regimented on trying to make sure that I was
exactly 27. And if I'd gone, my waist had
gone lower than 27, I was like, Oh no, have a giant coffee.
Or, you know, I would. Really do have a giant coffee to
go up. To try and, you know, to just to
do anything I could. Spoken like a true model.
Well I think I'll have a coffee to add.
Add an inch to my waist. With a lot of cream.
How about that? I don't know, but yeah.
So for me, I don't. Or a pastry maybe as well.
But for me now, I think it was more about I, for me, it's about
forgiving myself through my body changes.
And like a couple of years ago, I was probably more of a 2 and
now I'm headed more into a six. And that's OK.
It's very hard, obviously, when you're working for a brand
because it's not personal, Diane.
It's like if you're an electrician and you can't make
the lights work, they're not going to hire you, right?
If you need to be a size 4 and you're suddenly a size 6, it's
not, you know, a lot of people get, I think get it misconstrued
and it's really not that. It's not, Oh my God, how dare
you be in fashion. You're the wrong size.
It's like I was once fitting for a massive brand that used to
sell to QVC. I mean, Humongous brand that I
won't obviously name here and I had a full time job with them
and I got dropped because I lost 2 inches on my waist by no fault
of my own. I just thought I'm going to have
green juices instead of whatever it was.
I used to have to like drink mochas in the morning or
something. Instead of having a hot
chocolate, I'm going to have a green juice because it's good
for me. And I suddenly dropped two
inches on my waist and they noticed that the sales were
going off skew with and that's my fault.
That's my responsibility. So of course I'm going to get
fired. But you know, at the time, bit
younger, 10 years ago, I'd be like, oh, no, you know.
But now it's more like, hey, I'm just going to accept who I am,
where I am, and whatever client I go with, it's going to be
fine, you know? At some point, in addition to
fit modelling, which you did very successfully and you still
do, you started to go on to runways.
Yeah, Yes, I did, Diane. And actually thanks to you for
because we've known each other quite a long time now.
When you and I first came connected, I just done my first
few runway shows and it was my story kind of how we met each
other, our intro to becoming connected.
But yeah, I am not, I can't recall exactly where it came
from, but I do remember one exact client I was working with
and they were like, hey, you know, you're not bad looking.
And because fit models also are notorious for kind of having
great bodies and like doing good things but not being the most
attractive model on the planet, you know, not the Victoria's
Secret style. It was more, you know,
lifestyle, right. But hold on a minute.
Isn't that everyone in America or in the world?
Not everyone one is that top .1% of massive attraction and
everyone is attractive in their own special way.
And I had a really cool brand. If I may be so judgmental and
say pull me aside and we're like, hey, Charlotte, you know,
you might be 5, seven and a half.
I say I'm 5/8. You know, you might be a size 6
with bruises all over your legs, the thighs not the size that you
would usually see on the runway and two arms full of tattoos.
But you fit our brand really well.
And we really like the way you look in the clothes.
So would you do a runway show? And it was literally a
presentation. And I thought nothing of it.
I was obviously terrified and incredibly nervous and, you
know, just like, oh, my God. But it was great because of my
background in dance. Yes.
You know, so you go in, you have a rehearsal, you go into hair
and makeup, you do all these things.
And I realized, Diane, I love it.
It was, it was so fun to me and it really scratched that itch
that I think you can't quite get anywhere else when you're when
you stopped dancing and being on stage.
So for me, I did my first runway show in 2021, I believe, gosh,
February 2021, I think, or was it 22?
I think it was 21. And that was the catapult of
kind of now what I've been doing each Fashion Week and every
Fashion Week, it's always funny because you and I text, you're
like, what are you doing this Fashion Week?
I'm like, I haven't booked anything.
This is my last Fashion Week. And then I always get something
somehow. And you're always like, don't
worry, I think you're going to get it.
You know, it's always this like last minute thing.
But that's the world of. It's really fashion.
Modeling, so much of it is, you know, what are you doing
tomorrow or you know, we just sent you a call sheet, make sure
you look at it. You're on set tomorrow at six
AMI. Mean, you know it so well, you
know it so well. So exactly that.
Or hey, you know, we're in hair and makeup already.
How far are you from? Yeah.
This event space, can you get can you get here in an hour?
If you remember a couple of years ago, I had I need
Charlotte Reardon model in a text message sent to me and I
was like, OK, Diane, I think we're getting in a cab.
Do you want to come or? Yeah, we went from the, I think
it was a nulcha show in Mercedes, in the Mercedes
building down to Soho for a. Yeah, it was ideal glass.
Yeah, Oh, ideal Glass, yes. For a last minute runway show
yeah, So that's how it goes. But yeah, so that was what
started and what also piqued my interest because although it's
all fun and games, doing a runway show, I felt like I had
so much to stand for. And I felt like I also had a
responsibility to my age demographic getting up there.
And I still feel like that now. I'm still most of the time,
believe it or not, the oldest person in the room.
Unless I'm there. Unless you're there.
Yeah, Unless you're there. Which I'm.
Usually the oldest person in the room.
It's really funny. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And it's so funny for you and I because we we always have this
discussion off camera, obviously, but me being in my
mid almost to late 30s now and you obviously being in your 60s,
we're almost 30 years apart. Yeah, or a little bit.
Of solid a solid at least. A good yeah there you go see so
and how we still have great connections.
But for you for your demographic, you're usually
older and me I'm older and runway is so young.
It really is so young and I definitely feel I feel like I
have a lot of work to do obviously here.
But it has been really fulfilling and really special to
sit in the makeup chair next to a 19 year old girl that you
know, is got flown over from Paris to do this show and what
have you and me being like, hey, you know, sometimes it does feel
like a lot because I'm walking in a next to nothing bikini at
Miami Swim week and I can. And I will say you looked good
in that bikini. Thank you.
But it, you know, I do still feel a certain level of self
consciousness and I think everybody does.
But yeah, it's been really fabulous.
So I'm really grateful to vouch for those mid 30s women, the
millennials with those bigger thighs, with those cyclist
thighs and those boxing arms and tattoos and whatever else
stretch Marks and yeah, yeah. Well, you're such a good
spokesperson and you're certainly a good visual look for
it. I mean, when you see pictures of
you, you move so fluidly. You do, you do.
We can't see really any tattoos now, but you do have tattoos up
your all over and it's it's a different look on the runway and
it's a different look when you see it in a fashion magazine.
Yeah, I, I do, I, I agree. I mean, obviously I agree, yeah.
But I, I do think it is a missing demographic.
I, I do believe that deeply. And I also think that's why it's
been such a struggle for me to break into high fashion and do
runway because it's just everyone like kind of does this
like autocorrect, like, no, no, you don't know, like a runway
model. I don't know if this is good.
And then suddenly when you get through that like error error.
That most casting directors tend to have around runway shows.
They're like, oh, wait, hold on a minute.
This is going to boost our sales.
Oh, wait, hold on a minute. Yeah.
Yeah, that's exactly it. It's when he that's why I wanted
to start off the show with the numbers.
When you look at those numbers and you see who's really buying
things, I mean, when I see a 24 year old telling me that this
particular cosmetic is going to help my wrinkles, I'm like,
honey, who? Who cares?
This person, no offense, I mean, she's gorgeous and she looks
great and she caught my attention, but she doesn't know
a thing about wrinkles. Well, exactly.
True and and there are statistics that I don't know
exactly off the top of my head, but most 19 to 25 year old women
girls are getting cast for mid 30s.
Yes, advertising all. Right, I always joke.
My first my first big campaign, I was the chic 70 year old and I
was 56. See, there you go.
And I think it's also not good because it puts an.
I mean, this is a big topic as well.
It does. It's a false sense of reality to
everyone, not just women, not just whatever to literally
anyone. It's a lot of pressure it it
really is. And it's also not real.
And I think that that's something that's very important
to address. And me, I don't have children
yet. Every single one of my
girlfriends and I could name you 10 off the top of my head, all
have children or are in the process of having a child.
Your body is changing in your mid 30s, whether you like it or
not, frankly. And and onwards.
It's constantly changing and it doesn't mean it's getting bigger
or smaller, I just mean it's. Just changing.
Yeah, and after you have a child, you know.
Even more, and no matter what you do, I mean it's changed.
Yes. And for me, I really, I mean, I
have a girlfriend that called me up last night who he's English,
but she lives in San Diego and she's like Charlotte, I'm
nursing. I have to go on holiday.
She's just had her third baby in four years.
Can I just add and she's like, I'm nursing, I have to go on
holiday. Can you please give me a swim
brand that will cover my half belly because you know, she's
still getting rid of her pregnant belly and that I can
nurse very quickly. And I was like, yes, I know this
one brand. It's great, but it costs a lot
more money. But she doesn't mind spending
more money for easy access for for modesty pads, for a fit that
actually suits her body type, for if her child is sorry
vomiting all over her, she can throw it in the wash and it
won't get ruined like if you buy a fast fashion brand.
So something I notice and I know that we all know is when you
reach a certain age, you're willing to spend a bit more
money. Oh, you're willing to invest in
something that has quality, that has good fabrics, that has a
good fit, that has taken more time to cultivate a product that
is going to deliver those things rather than quickly buying four
different swimsuits at the quickest dollar store you can
find. And I, I believe that, well,
it's shows in the stats. I mean, they, they speak for
themselves and how much money women my age spend on fashion.
So why are big brands still casting for want of a better
world, You know, 20 year old college students for when women
my age are calling me, they, they want to know from women
like me what I want. And it's the same with
everything. It's even household things.
I mean, you buy houses. I only want certain toasters now
because I know that if I buy a toaster or a kettle from around
the corner, in a couple of months it's going to pack up and
have to buy another one. And I don't want the hassle of
that, let alone to have to toss it out, buy a new one, you know.
So it's the same with everything I think.
You know, it's funny, since you mentioned toasters, I want to
you have another side of you besides fit modeling, besides
doing runway, besides cycling all over New York City.
You know, which is how we first met when you walked into an
event in your with your cycling helmet.
And a mini skirt. And a mini skirt.
May I add, and it was a fan. It was at the Rainbow Room.
Yes. I felt so out of place.
I was in sneakers and a tiny little mini skirt and a helmet
in hand. And thank God I met you, Diane.
You were like, hi, I'll be your friend today.
I was like, thank goodness. And it was sort of a wonderful
friendship. Yeah.
But you mentioned toasters and I want to go to that topic because
you have an interest in homes and, excuse me, in construction
and you've been buying properties with that modelling
money. You've been buying properties
and turning them into homes and homes not just for you, but
others I'd love to hear about. This.
Side transition that is a very equally weighted part of your
life. I am so passionate about it
also, especially coming from England and obviously I grew up
in London, so it's still slightly smaller living, but I
grew up in a house and when I moved to America, I was like,
wait, this is an apartment. This is like a glorified
roommate situation. Everyone's like, Oh no, like we
all grew up in apartments. Like that's, you know, very a
New York thing. But I'm especially, I'm
especially passionate about this because of living in New York, I
think, and living in literal shoe boxes for so many years.
In 2017, I did was very lucky enough to work incredibly hard
as a fit model and make enough money to buy my own house.
And at the time I was living in the meat packing district, which
I thought was fun and cool, and I was looking at studios in the
West Village, and for the exact same price I could buy a house
just across the water in Jersey City.
And so I did just that. I bought a house.
It was way too big for me, but I was like, Oh my gosh, wow.
I. Had a space finally.
I had a kitchen that wasn't in the same room as my bathroom, my
living room. So I was like, wow, OK.
I also had a dining room. It was fabulous.
I had a basement like that was amazing.
But yeah, so I bought my first house and I'm so glad and
grateful that I did that. And I really think all my time
in fashion, or, you know, coming from dancing to move into
fashion, really help cultivate that for me because I do have an
eye for interiors. You do.
I've seen some of your work. That's phenomenal.
Thank you. And I really think it's very
important. And I feel like I sound like my
father or everyone's mother or father here, but I feel like
it's so important to have a side hustle, not to have a backup
plan per SE. Like if you want to be an
astronaut, you can. Apparently Katy Perry just did
it too. So if you if.
You. That's a whole other topic.
Yeah, if you want to be anything, I really believe that
you can be absolutely anything you want.
I mean, even if it's like a ladybug, you can be anything you
want. But I do think it's very
important. That's another topic too.
Yeah, I do think it's very important to be able to have
different side hustles and different pools of things to go
into. I do think diversity is very
important. I think I'm slightly I get very
bored with one thing. I don't I can't do a nine to
five. I can't be stuck in a box.
I always want to do what I want to do, which is it can be come
across as very spoiled and stubborn.
But I also think I'd like to say it's also a good trait because
it makes me more entrepreneurial.
And so in saying that I've decided to buy a house because I
didn't want to pay rent anymore and I just thought it was silly
to keep paying rent and also to buy a tiny little shoebox apt.
I was also paying HOA fees on that.
I was like, I'm going to buy house and I'm going to do it.
And so I did. And then I had a horrific
accident in 2020. I was hit by a car and COVID
happened and the whole world stopped.
But also so did I. I really stopped.
And not only did I fly out fashion and everything I ever
thought I even had, I couldn't walk for six months.
So it was a really crazy time for me emotionally, mentally in
many ways, and the rest of the world, of course, but I
especially got. Excuse.
Me, I got hit pretty hard. Yeah.
And I also ran out of money. And at the time I again, being
stubborn was like, I am not selling my house, old friend,
you are not selling your house. You worked so hard to get here,
yada yada yada. Long story short, I got talked
into selling my house and I did. And I made money on it, Diane.
And I didn't just make a small amount, I made a good amount of
money on that. And I was like.
In Jersey City, it was a point everyone wanted to move out of
New York. Well, it was also perfect for
that because I'd I was right by the PATH train very accessible
into Manhattan. It was a house with a back
garden in a cool ish neighborhood that was
affordable. I mean, all of these houses are
well under $1,000,000. Some of them are even under half
a million. So that's really in New York
City. Boy, is that affordable or close
enough. Like everyone would jump at
that. And at COVID they did.
And so I was really glad to make money on that and I put my money
instead of sticking it all in the bank, I did put a little bit
of money in the bank. I did also buy myself a few
fancy handbags, what can I say? And then I bought a small
apartment from there and I thought I'll live in the
apartment and keep the other the rest of the money and whatever.
And I didn't ended up renting out, made money on that.
And then a year later, I had more money from working and
doing other things. And I, I bought a really, I mean
when I mean money, these houses are falling down, just to be
clear. And you've seen.
I saw one of them, Charlotte, and if I didn't see the
aftermath, we wouldn't be taking on this portion of the show.
When I saw the before, you know what I said?
I said. You were like, do not.
You got to be kidding me. You know this.
There's no way you can do this on a on a budget.
Yeah. And, and not go completely
upside down. And not only did you do it, I
was truly blown away by the end result.
Yeah, unbelievable. Well, thank you for that.
From not just the design, I mean the the hard things, but then
all the how you decorated it. Yeah, so, so essentially I, I
bought and sold and bought and sold and I, I, I flipped 4
houses and flipped 6 properties, so apartments and I even bought
an apartment in Miami during COVID and that did incredibly
well because everybody moved down to Florida.
Now, yes, my timing was lucky, but also I, I believe in luck to
a certain degree, but I know that I'm a bit of a hustler and
I, I did what I needed to do. I also make sure I'm there for
every viewing. So I'm selling the house myself
and everybody gets to meet me, the girl that blood, sweat and
tears in that puppy. So that's kind of what I did and
I managed to gross 2.4 million in that amount of time, which is
a good number. That's a big number.
And I'm very proud of myself. You should be proud of that
because that's been a side hustle.
So being able to get into real estate and flip houses.
And this isn't a real estate broker, this is more of an
investor situation really. But with not a lot of money, it
is possible, you know, And I could still model on the side.
Granted, it wasn't always easy if I had like a nightmare with a
tenant or something, but it's definitely manageable.
And now I'm on my property number six and I have tenants
living upstairs. I, I, I make a good amount of
kind of rent, as it were. And I have an Absolutely
Fabulous property. And I feel so grateful, Diane,
to be able to be in this situation.
Granted, moving 22 times in 17 years.
Oh, I can relate. It's probably not ideal and also
moving seven times in four years is and last year I moved three
times in one year. So those kind of things people
don't want to do and it's not fun, but equally the reward
after all of that slogging around And when I mean I move, I
have a 70 gallon fish tank that I'm moving with me every time.
Like it's not just and six bikes.
It's not just like I'm moving a few things here and there.
It's it's it's a hefty. Move.
But that that kind of that work for me is it's still worth it.
And I love the process of having a team of managing a team of
understanding. You know, I'll tell you and
everyone that that house that I bought was infested with rats.
And I didn't know it was so bad. I mean, it was so bad, but you
know, how what do you do with rats?
Because rats aren't mice. You have to call the city for
rats. That's just the city problem,
You know, do I want to move into a rat infested house?
Should I just drop this and leave?
You know, a lot of big, big problems, mold issues, walls
falling down, things that I would never big girl problems,
as you say, things that I would never even think about.
You know, somebody cut a tree down at the front of my house
and I, the city started fining me and I had no idea what I was
getting fined for, You know, all of these issues.
But this is life. And this is also being a
homeowner and this is the problems you bump into when you
do want to kind of progress. And so although they're very
annoying, it's kind of learning to take them on and be like,
alright, I'm just going to let that part go and I'm going to go
and focus on this modelling job I have or whatever.
And I think the diversity in being able to flip houses, the
creativity behind that, in being able to design my own kitchen to
make. Multiple kitchens.
Three in one house. Three in the last one, three
kitchens and they all look different.
They do. Thank you.
Yeah. So, yeah.
So just to close on that, really, I do feel very grateful
for that. But it's not for the faint
haunted, like, you know, people that aren't willing to just like
dive in the deep end and just hope that you swim, don't drown.
I don't recommend it for some kinds of people, but me just
being that ex dancer turned kind of how am I going to hustle my
way to make money and do this and kind of figuring out the
game and puzzle that is making money in life and so so yeah,
yeah. Where do you imagine this going
next? Thank you for that question.
Yeah, I would like to be able to not flip the house that I live
in. And I think moving forward, I
would love to be able to, which I've been looking at, as I told
you before we started to buy an apartment building and it's kind
of for New Yorkers, ish. And I know because I've been a
New Yorker, even though I have this accent for many, many
years. And to give people with less, I
guess kind of the less than not the highest income to give
people that are on rent controlled apartments actually a
good experience because everyone's always like, Oh my,
my landlord. And but I have a great rent.
And it's like, I would love to be able to offer great rents and
also give you a really awesome living experience in New York or
the surrounding area. So and also maybe give you a
nice looking apartment too. So let's see.
I mean, dreams do come true. But yeah, I would love to
continue my house flipping venture wherever that takes me.
And it's only been me. I'm a one man shop.
So I've done the investing, I've done the flipping, I've done the
construction, I've done the managing.
So I don't know if I would want to get more of a team or find a
way because I'm quite, as you and I both know, because we've
worked together, definitely quite.
I want it like this, I want it like that.
So not sure if I'd be able to manage A-Team, but maybe I
would. I think your sense of excellence
shows you know you're very demanding, not just on others,
but yourself. Very much so myself.
And I think that's how it kind of bleeds in to standards being
very high for everybody. Yeah.
So, yeah. So I would like to continue
that, but I would still like to continue modeling because I
think it has been, we've discussed this.
I I think it's so fun to be able.
I also feel so privileged to be in a position that I can be and
do these runway shows and then flip a house next week and then
do another runway show and then maybe do a podcast with Diane
and do all these different things.
Or a commercial or an advertisement.
Because there's that's the fascinating thing about the
model modeling world and commercials and print that if
you look at ads, there's every kind of person in them.
It's just you don't see it as much in the fashion side.
But if you think about commercials in general, it's an
it's an opportunity that you could continue with your whole
life. And I want to because I enjoy
it, but also because I know how desperately needed it is for my
demographic. I really believe that to be
true. And I'm not talking about
inclusivity because I think the fashion industry, now this is
incredibly controversial. I believe that they've become
very inclusive. I think putting someone very,
very slim, very, very tall on the front of the magazine is
fine. And I think putting somebody
that is, you know, also in the plus size range on a magazine
also fine. But there is a hell of a lot of
missing pieces in between that and also ages in between that.
And I, I hope that it will continue to evolve.
And I think that they finally got the the idea, but I think
they've swung the the pendulum so kind of far back and forth.
That's a very interesting point that what it's almost like the
extremes are being seen and not like like a Charlotte in the
middle. Yeah, well, what about the
people in the middle? Because that's the majority of
us. What about the girls with short
blonde hair and tattoos and bruises and what have you?
So what about those women in their 30s that are just everyday
women, you know, and I don't mean that in a way that they're
less than or they're, you know, the girl next door style.
But I, I mean it in like there is a lot of us out there and
there is probably not as many even plus size demographic out
there as there is that mid 30s to 40s range of women just
sitting at home nursing a baby, looking at what they should buy
next. You know, So for me, I feel like
fashion needs to wake up there. And the money that they're
losing out on is also like, hello, guys, you know, and I, I
don't know about you, Diane, but I definitely see a lot of
interesting people in commercials and I think that's
fabulous. But I'm not super duper
interesting looking. I don't have purple hair or
shaved head or, you know, piercings everywhere.
I don't think most people do. So as you said, it's those, you
know, they're the extremes, but it's there.
There was a great expression by Edie Weiner, a futurist, and she
used to say the extremes and form the middle because most
people are in that middle somewhere.
And you know, from that rail thin heroine chic to, you know,
the mega plus model, there's the the majority of the people in
between. And you're looking at her.
Yeah. So yeah.
What do you do? You get feedback from casting
agents or brands? I'm just curious about me one
way or another. Yeah.
Well, I'll be honest. Yeah, because I can be here.
Yes, of course, I usually don't get booked.
It's a very small percentage. And then when I do get booked,
Diane, they don't stop booking me.
They don't stop. Yeah.
Oh, I would believe that. Because once they see the many
faces of Charlotte Reardon, because truly, you are
transformative. I mean, I remember seeing
pictures of you sitting sitting behind some fashion show, and
you had very dark eye makeup on. And I'm looking at the pictures
thinking, I wonder why Charlotte put this out.
Because I didn't realize it was you.
And I was wondering who it was. I think I even asked you who it
was and you said that that's me. And so and so took that picture
when I was just sitting in between my walk on the runway.
And I was blown away. And it wasn't like it was horror
makeup or anything. It was just different makeup.
And you took on a whole new look.
And plus, if anyone actually ever saw you move, I mean, like,
I, I was, I wasn't joking about the Macarena.
I meant it seriously. I think it was one of the first
things I saw when I first met you, you know, but and I used to
crack up when we would get together and all of a sudden
Charlotte would do a high kick on her head, like hi, Diane.
And the high would be a leg all the way up over your head.
And I'm thinking, Oh my God, my groin, my groin's hurting.
And she just said hello with her.
Leg yes, I did indeed. Yeah.
Well, I think also for me, I have a lot of experience in
fashion. Yeah.
And of course 10 plus years or 13 years as a fit model is one
thing, but. Also that dancing.
Yeah, but I also show up on time.
Yes, I bring all the shoes. I bring a million and one
different shoes. I bring 10 different bras, you
know, and that's just experience, I think, and double
checking the call sheet before you go to bed at night to make
sure, you know, showing up with really no makeup on when they,
when they ask you. And well, you and I have
discussed that many times. So for me, I think the dancing
part does play a big part, like you said, but also the many,
many years that I have, I have a professionalism.
Yeah, I think so. And I treat it like a job.
I don't treat it like, Oh yeah, I just got booked on this
commercial. It's like, oh, no, no, I have a
job tomorrow. So I've got to go to bed at 9:00
and I need to be up and Adam and have everything ready to go, you
know, and I print out everything ready to go.
But I also think that people see the moment they do con on to
hiring a girl my age, a woman my age, somebody like me, not only
do they see, you know, the knowledge that I have in fit,
but they also see what a difference it makes to have a
store, a sore thumb kind of stick out like that.
But yes, professionalism, but also somebody like me, my age
and the reaction, because I think it's about changing
people's ideas and the reaction isn't bad.
You know, it's always good and it's always like, oh, OK, this
is interesting. She isn't like, you know, got,
like I said before, she doesn't have spiky hair or looking.
She's not, you know, causing a somebody to double take.
But there is a different level of special which is normal.
Does that make sense? It, it does make sense.
And, and it's interesting because as I preface this show,
the industry's picking up on it. You're getting a lot of media
coverage, you're getting a lot of outlets saying.
Hold on a minute, maybe. We should exactly hold on a
minute, as Charlotte would say hold on a minute.
Yeah. So, yeah.
So let's try and continue this, you know.
Yes. Now I'm sure you get asked all
the time and we were talking about professionalism and since
we might as well save you a lot of time because I'm sure
everyone says, Charlotte, I want to be a model.
You know, can you help make me a model?
How do you And so we in the future, you can say, well, watch
the silver disbedience perception dynamics podcast and
watch it all the way to the end, because in the end, I share my
advice about becoming a model. Obviously as we've discussed,
anyone can can has a look that is bookable, but how does some
how in your opinion, what would be the advice you would give
someone? So yes, anybody can be a model,
but if you really want to be a model, you have to be willing to
sacrifice a lot of money on test shoots, first of all, and a
serious amount of time. And I think people don't take it
seriously. People are like, oh, my pictures
are good enough. You know, like my aunt took them
and they're photoshopped in a certain way.
No, anyone's going to see through that.
And I think it's how do I explain this?
People can tell the difference between a model and not a model
when they've been in the industry.
Casting directors will support you a mile off, an absolute mile
off. And if your book isn't
impeccable when you're going to interview at a modeling agency
or what have you, if your digitals aren't the best that
they can be, because then normally they look for Polaroids
or digitals, Same, same thing, which is essentially a very
basic look with next to no makeup on, standing, taken with
a regular camera. And it's not been photoshopped.
That's like a digital or Polaroid for people.
Which is the biggest hurdle for most people to accept when you
say to them, well, you're going to need digitals, Yeah.
And that's skinny pair of jeans, the tight T-shirt and no makeup
and your hair basically flat. Yeah.
Yeah, and they're like, oh, but I love this shirt.
No, I love this. And I want to put my eyelashes
on. It's like, no, guys, you're
never going to get hired. But for me, it's really a
sacrifice. Like everybody quote and quote
wants to be a model, but people don't realize what the sacrifice
is. And it's the same with if you
want to be a singer, if you want to be a dancer, if you want to
be a, I don't know anything. I, I really believe that there
is so much sacrifice that goes into it.
And for me, it took me many years to accept the fact that I
need to invest $1500 a year at least just on getting photo
shoots done for myself personally to keep My Portfolio
up today. Because that's what casting
directors look at. I think if you really, really
want to model, which yes, I do, that's all my DMS, by the way.
That's like every exactly every other DM is.
Yeah, sure, I will absolutely help you.
But are you willing to make the sacrifice?
Are you willing to actually take this seriously?
Yes, yes, I'm willing to take it seriously.
OK. Well, then you need to invest
$5000 in this, this, this, and oh, no.
Well, I couldn't possibly. Well, then you know, so for me,
it's really about sacrificing your time and just investing
your money in you in your career.
And it's also about not giving up being a tenacious I really.
Love that word. Yes, it's a good word.
And you are tenacious. Yeah.
And like, I still have so many Nos.
Diane and I have been on hold just alone this month.
I was on hold for five different name brands that you would know
for sure. And right, currently, I'm on
hold for one of the biggest commercials I think of my whole
entire life. Now, let's hope we book it.
But I'm not crossing my fingers on my toes because I was on on
hold for five different commercials last month and I
didn't book any of them. But I had to hold the date and I
had to wait till 9:00 to get the call.
Hey, Charlotte, Sorry. We've decided to go with the
other model. OK, fine.
So you have to be willing to do that and you have to be OK with
even now I'm 15 years in fashion in modeling.
I'm still getting nose today and I'm still getting a lot of them.
And what people see is my yeses. They don't see all the nose.
Oh. Exactly.
And they don't see that. Oh gosh.
OK, well maybe I should just flip another house this year
instead of whatever. So I think those are the two
things for me is really just being willing to sacrifice and
sacrifice everything. And the early nights, because
you don't know if you're going to get that last minute call or
they're not going out and having a drink or not, or not eating
that slice of pizza. You want to eat at night because
you're hungry at 5:00, but at 9 you actually may find out you're
due on set tomorrow at 6:00 AM. Well, exactly.
You don't want to arrive puffy and swollen from the soul.
Well, exactly. And I think, I think, I think
more, I think now I'm a bit more like, well, maybe I'll just have
the pizza. But yeah, no, I agree.
And I also think that some people just are this sounds
pretty ruthless. Some people just aren't built
for that. Yeah, I agree.
And some people, you know, people would say they come to
New York because they want to be an actor.
It's like, do you want to be an actor or do you want to be like
an extra? Do you know what I mean?
And I don't know because I don't know about acting, but I do know
that modeling acting, a lot of these industries have very
similar ways in and they think that just because Kate Moss got
discovered in McDonald's that maybe they'll get discovered
that way. And 90% of people, you know,
everyone says, oh, you're an overnight, your overnight
success takes 10 years. And I agree with that.
Yeah. Oh my gosh, Charlotte, I could
keep talking to you for at least another hour.
So we're going to have to schedule a lunch.
Very. But thank you, everyone.
This has been the Silver Disobedience Perception Dynamics
podcast. I have been speaking with
Charlotte Reardon, who is absolutely special.
She's amazing. All of her contact information
is going to be below so you can follow her on Instagram, which I
highly recommend you do. And look for that Macarena
Macarena video or something else she posts because she's
guaranteed to please with something that will make you
smile and laugh and feel inspired.
Thank you so much, Charlotte. Thank you for having me, Diane.
Thanks everyone. Please hit subscribe and share
this with your friends, especially your friends that
want to learn more about the modeling industry because
they'll certainly have learned a lot through this episode.
Thanks.