1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,600 Hello everyone, I'm Diane Gorsell, also known as Silver 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,640 Disobedience, and this is the Silver Disobedience Perception 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,920 Dynamics podcast. And today we're going to be 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,600 talking with an expert in a about a topic that I think's on 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,120 a lot of people's minds. I hear all the time now, and I 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,320 often think it myself, that my focus sometimes just doesn't 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,720 seem like what it once was. Is it because I'm older? 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,960 Well, I certainly am. Is it stress? 9 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:35,000 I don't feel it, but maybe you do. 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,960 I don't know. Is it the news? 11 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,920 Well, that's ever changing, but it's always been changing. 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,960 What's causing people to feel less focused than at other times 13 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,600 in their lives? My guest today is going to help 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,840 us unlock those secrets and the mysteries of our mind. 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,800 His name is Doctor Shrini Pillai. 16 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,480 He's a psychiatrist, a researcher. 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,080 He helps a lot of companies to understand their employees, 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,680 their interactions and how they can do business better. 19 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,680 And he's also a technician in the area of brain science and 20 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,800 how we and our operating systems, which is what we 21 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,280 explore a lot in this podcast. So please welcome Doctor Shrini 22 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:23,920 Pillai. Thank you. 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,680 Thanks so much for having me Dan, always lovely to talk to 24 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,840 you. I am so excited to talk to you. 25 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:36,400 Let's just get right into it. Do you think there is less focus 26 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,880 than at other times, or does it just feel like we're all less 27 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,880 focused than we once were? I definitely think that there's 28 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,200 less focus than at other times. I can think One concrete thing I 29 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,800 can say is that in the programs that I designed for 30 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,680 corporations, I've reduced the amount of content to probably a 31 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:59,680 25% of what I used to present. So I I know that the ability to 32 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,880 just stay focused on one thing is very difficult for a lot of 33 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,120 people. I also think there's been a 34 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,120 tremendous amount of research done showing that actually our 35 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,720 tensional parameters have actually closed in on us. 36 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,960 Why? What's happening to us? 37 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,200 I think there's, there's a lot of, so there are two sides to 38 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,000 this, you know, but my last book is about how we can leverage 39 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,960 unfocused. So I don't think unfocused is 40 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,560 all bad, but I do think that in terms of, you know, why a couple 41 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,480 of different things. So one of them is digital 42 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,200 distractions. You know, throughout the day, 43 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,200 you get up in the morning, you get a notification from your 44 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:40,080 phone, Alexa saying something, you have the TV on, you get a 45 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,640 message, you get a text. You know, if think about this, 46 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:47,040 before mobile devices were around, the brain had real 47 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,920 estate that it had and it had to use its real estate well to be 48 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:53,600 able to focus, to carry out tasks. 49 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,000 Now we've got to do pretty much the same thing while we're 50 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,200 attending to 40 messages that come in in one minute. 51 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,640 And we just take it for granted that that's OK. 52 00:03:03,640 --> 00:03:06,600 But when you open up your e-mail box, it's a bit like Russian 53 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,080 roulette as well. You don't know what you're going 54 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:10,760 to find. No idea what you're going to 55 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,480 find. And as you're thinking about 56 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,240 this, you're like, well, you know, this e-mail is okay, this 57 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,640 is fine. So the brain is also on high 58 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:22,360 alert because it's not just that there's too much to process, 59 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,120 it's also that there's a lot of unknown and a lot of 60 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,240 uncertainty. So are you saying in a way we're 61 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:32,520 in a constant new, a new form of stress, a constant state of 62 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,160 stress? I think so. 63 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,400 And I think, you know, the world is changing so much that even at 64 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,920 the level of the collective, you know, every day, depending on 65 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,400 how you consume news, you, you are put in a position where you 66 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:49,240 might have to respond to wars, to financial calamities, to 67 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,240 political decisions. So I think a lot of people feel 68 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,360 like there's an onslaught that's coming their way and that their 69 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,880 brains are now getting taken over. 70 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,240 And so for most people, they're just trying to keep their lives 71 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:03,480 together. You know, if they're people with 72 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,320 families, for example, they're trying to make sure everything's 73 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,600 OK at home. They're trying to make sure that 74 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,200 they get the work that they need to get done on time, but the 75 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,520 work keeps pouring in. And then there's also new stuff. 76 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,560 If you think about AI and how AI has changed things. 77 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,520 If you're not someone who has jumped into technology, and I 78 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,040 have partly because I'm a technology entrepreneur, but 79 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:29,200 also because early on I felt this is not nothing. 80 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,240 This is going to change a lot of what's happening. 81 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:36,560 But if if, if you don't dedicate time, time to new things, you're 82 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,120 not going to learn about them. Now, some people are in the 83 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,200 privileged position of not having to learn about them. 84 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,640 So they don't care. They can read a paper, newspaper 85 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,720 and they can go for a walk and they can not care about changes 86 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,200 in technology. But right now, I used to feel 87 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,280 like I was just learning from my Instagram feed or learning about 88 00:04:55,280 --> 00:04:56,800 the latest thing that was happening. 89 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,240 But now I feel like I have to set aside dedicated time to 90 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,040 catch up on the latest developments in AI that are 91 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,560 relevant to the work that I do and to my field. 92 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,240 So, so I think in summary, what I'm saying is there are a lot of 93 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,320 distractions, there are a lot of new things and there's, there's 94 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,440 a lot of uncertainty. And those three things are 95 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,240 putting our brains at risk. I mean, some people would also 96 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,600 say that that post COVID brain fog has increased for people 97 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,400 with long COVID. And then there are people with, 98 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,520 with syndromes like chronic fatigue syndrome, for example, 99 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,600 which also seems to be on the increase. 100 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:39,120 And, and one hard statistic is that ADHD is significantly 101 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,520 higher than it ever was. Now the question is, is it 102 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,520 really higher or are we just detecting it more or are we 103 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,160 overly detecting it? That that can be debated. 104 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,200 But I, I think if you're, if you're just looking strictly at 105 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:56,000 that diagnosis, that the wait list for diagnosis of ADHD in, 106 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,600 in the UK is in the order of years. 107 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:04,000 Well, do you think that's because they're on that 108 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,840 particular one? Could the wait list to get 109 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:11,800 diagnosed with a DADHD go up because you get testing 110 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,360 accommodations? And yes, you know, there's a bit 111 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,080 of a scam in that too, which I'm sure you've seen. 112 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,040 Yes, I've not only seen the scam in that I've seen it all over 113 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:20,920 medicine. Yeah. 114 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,840 So, so I think it's, there are a lot of amazing things about the 115 00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:28,040 medical system and a lot of ways in which the system serves us, 116 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:33,080 but a lot of messages that reach people are the messages that are 117 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,480 best marketed. I thought how you addressed ADHD 118 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,360 in your book Life Unlocked was phenomenal. 119 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:46,920 That was one of the most intriguing ways because you tied 120 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,640 it into fear. Yeah, because because a lot of 121 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,360 people don't realize that in the brain, the fear center, which 122 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,160 the amygdala is a big, plays a big role in, that is actually 123 00:06:56,280 --> 00:07:00,040 directly connected to the thinking brain, which allows you 124 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,560 to focus and pay attention. And so when I used to run the 125 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,600 anxiety disorder service at MacLean Hospital, which was at 126 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,200 Harvard, I used to think to myself, what's going on here? 127 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,480 Like is the primary, the presenting problem would be I 128 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,480 just can't focus. But when you take a deeper 129 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,240 history, you realize this person's actually has this 130 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,920 chronic worry and a baseline anxiety. 131 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,560 And when you have these earthquakes going on in the 132 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,920 anxiety center of the brain, it spills over to the thinking 133 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,200 brain. And so you can't really attend. 134 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,480 And So what I would find is that in certain instances, by 135 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,760 treating the anxiety, the attention gets restored. 136 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,040 And so I think if you have a problem with attention, it could 137 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,600 be a problem with attention, or it could also be a problem with 138 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,360 your emotional system that's not cooperating and blasting through 139 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,440 your attention. And can we talk about that? 140 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,080 I mean, it's anxiety. You can't scroll through 141 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,920 Instagram without seeing the word anxiety. 142 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,280 And it's not something I follow. So it's clearly got to be there 143 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,720 a lot. I mean, I follow puppies and 144 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,520 babies. So like, I don't, I don't think 145 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,000 I've ever like hit on anxiety thing. 146 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,720 So clearly it's posted a lot. You see people talk about my 147 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,320 anxiety. You know, it's, it's almost like 148 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:21,080 people, it's become a identifier for people. 149 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:26,240 It's clearly up because it's a highly searchable term. 150 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,800 And I want to ask you about anxiety. 151 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,520 You talked about the dinging going off all the time, which 152 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:39,000 then we answer that the dopamine drain that could be going on. 153 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,120 I want to hear from a medical perspective, are we draining out 154 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,200 our dopamine at a rapid speed each time we respond to one of 155 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,720 those Dings? And is it elevating anxiety? 156 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,240 What's going on? Well, firstly, anxiety is the 157 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,520 commonest mental disorder, so it is. 158 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,000 So I don't think you're seeing those those things by chance. 159 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,520 It actually is. It is the most common. 160 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,000 OK, how do you define anxiety? What's the definition? 161 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,520 Well, so we could get into this in a number of different ways. 162 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,880 So there's there's the the the diagnostic institution. 163 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:13,040 Your stage. Well, anxiety is, is a response 164 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,440 to a presumed threat. And I think if you're anxious in 165 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,240 the presence of an actual threat, it's not pathological 166 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,880 because it's not disrupting your life, your life, it's helping 167 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,200 your life. However, if you're anxious and 168 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,480 there's no real reason that you're anxious and it starts to 169 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,960 disrupt your life, then you're responding to to a presumed 170 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,400 threat that probably doesn't exist. 171 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,320 And that's when anxiety starts to take over people's lives. 172 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,240 But I think in the current environment, there's a theory of 173 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,880 that's called the theory of constructed emotion by Lisa 174 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:48,200 Feldmann Barrett, which is, which is a new definition of of 175 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,520 any emotion. And what she says is emotions 176 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,240 are signals that come from the brain telling the body to 177 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,000 prepare for what's next expected. 178 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:03,520 So if so, it's basically a metabolic signal that is 179 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,440 supposed to be there to help your body say, OK, we need to 180 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,360 hold on to our our glucose stores. 181 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,080 We need to figure out whether we need to feed ourselves, you 182 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,880 know, prepare to flee. Now the, the issue with anxiety 183 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,040 is that it's fine if the signal is correct, but if it's a 184 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,840 malfunctioning signal, that's like, hey, hey, hey, be careful, 185 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,480 be careful, be careful, which is the message we get. 186 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:27,680 If you look at any news, that's the message that's coming 187 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:30,240 across. So the brain is getting trained 188 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,120 to actually create these inaccurate prediction signals. 189 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,400 That's making everybody feel extremely anxious. 190 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,240 And so I often say to people, you know, 1 short way to think 191 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,080 about managing this is a is a mnemonic that I came up with 192 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,520 called Circa, which is, you know, it's, I'll tell you what 193 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,160 each letter stands for. First C is for chunking, The I 194 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,720 is for ignore mental chatter. The R is reality check. 195 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,080 The second C is control check and the A is for attention 196 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:01,560 shift. And I'll tell you what each 197 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:04,120 thing means. So the chunking is essentially 198 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,120 reminding us that the brain goes into this anxious state when 199 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:09,920 you're flooding it with information, right? 200 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,280 You know, like you get up on a Monday morning, you open your 201 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,800 e-mail. Whoa, what just happened? 202 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,880 And if you actually tell yourself, let me just take a 203 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,520 minute and, and, and just chunk out this. 204 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,360 I'm going to check e-mail at this time. 205 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,800 I'm going to try to figure out what I can get done in the 206 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,720 morning, in the afternoon. It might sound silly, but 207 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,640 actually the brain starts to calm down once it knows that you 208 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,640 don't have to do everything at once, which ties into the second 209 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,360 form of chunking, which is basically ruthless prioritizing. 210 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,360 So say to yourself, I'm probably not going to get everything done 211 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,120 today, but what do I have to get to? 212 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,080 And then the the third piece of chunking is delegating. 213 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,240 We think we have to do everything ourselves, but 214 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,080 actually there are many things we could actually delegate. 215 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,280 So that's the chunking. The ignore mental chatter is 216 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,760 essentially mindfulness. So it's sitting back in a chair, 217 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,960 closing your eyes, paying attention to your breath and 218 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,360 then keeping your attention fixed like a flashlight. 219 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,040 And you just, you just observe yourself breathing in and out. 220 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,960 Now, that might sound ridiculous, but studies have 221 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,360 shown that the amygdala, one of the key parts of the brain 222 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,080 involved in anxiety, actually decreases its activation if you 223 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,040 If you engage in a regular practice like. 224 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,960 And I'm a big believer in that. Yeah, I've done that over almost 225 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,840 25 years. And I think it was a lifesaver 226 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,520 for me, actually, almost 40 years. 227 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:33,440 And actually there's a, there's a, there's a technique called 228 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,720 cyclic sighing that's recently been studied at Stanford that 229 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,760 was actually shown to be superior to mindfulness. 230 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,760 And so if you're someone that says I can't sit in a chair and 231 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,640 focus on my breath, then try this. 232 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:47,360 Try breathing in to 3/4 and then and then, and then you go right 233 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,080 to the top and then you breathe out through your mouth slowly. 234 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,400 You do that for 5 minutes and it actually helps to reset what's 235 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,640 going on in that amygdala. Also, this, this practice that 236 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,880 you're talking about is, is actually something that can 237 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,240 protect genes. At the end of our genes, we have 238 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,440 telomeres which get shorter and shorter as we get older and when 239 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:08,960 we get illnesses and then we die. 240 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,160 But Elizabeth Blackburn, who got the Nobel Prize in medicine in 241 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,880 her preliminary studies found that you might actually be able 242 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,680 to protect those telomeres. So ignore mental chatter has a 243 00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:23,240 lot of benefits. Then reality check is simply 244 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,800 self talk, which is this too shall pass. 245 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,840 You know, those days, there's no silver lining. 246 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,080 There's nothing. You just can't see the good in 247 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,360 the disaster that just unfolded in front of you. 248 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:36,320 But what we often forget, and the brain forgets this, is that 249 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,360 this will pass. Yes, think about any adversity 250 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,280 you've experienced in your life. When you're experiencing it, 251 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:42,640 it's like it's going to last forever. 252 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,680 But if you remind your brain, you know what? 253 00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:47,400 This actually is going to pass. We were talking about the ocean 254 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,160 earlier. I was trying to think of it as, 255 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,560 you know, it might feel like it's coming in like a tsunami, 256 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:52,960 but it goes out. Right. 257 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:54,200 Absolutely. Yeah. 258 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,480 And then and then there's control check, which is 259 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,400 basically the Serenity prayer. What can I control? 260 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:03,160 What can I not control? Do I know the difference? 261 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,560 Lady Gaga is a great example of someone who actually used this, 262 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,600 you know, on her own. She was talking to students at 263 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,680 Yale and she said I reached a point in my career where I was 264 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,080 just totally burnt out and I didn't want to sing anymore. 265 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:17,120 People were like, what do you mean? 266 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,800 Like, you're like such an amazing singer and we got such a 267 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,120 huge fan base. So I just realized that I didn't 268 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,080 want to do what I was expected to do. 269 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,120 I didn't want to take selfies. I had more to offer the world. 270 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,000 I didn't want to sell perfumes. I don't even like perfumes. 271 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,320 And so eventually I'd go home and I'd look at myself in the 272 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,320 mirror because I would say no to some things. 273 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,640 And I would say you, I can sleep with any day because you have 274 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,440 integrity. You're standing for what you 275 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,360 believe in. And it was, it's kind of an 276 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,440 amazing wake up call to what can I control? 277 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,720 What can I say no to? And and if I'm not going to 278 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,000 control something, why do I want to fill my brain with all kinds 279 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,720 of nonsense that has nothing to do with you know who I am? 280 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:01,320 And then the last A is a tension shift, which is we get stuck in 281 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,800 the problems, but but we rarely shift early enough into 282 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,120 solutions. So how do we take the brain's 283 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,560 attentional system? You know, people will go on 284 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,280 about, oh, this just happened politically or this just happens 285 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,880 like, well, OK, so you, we've identified it's a problem for 286 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,680 you. What's your solution? 287 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,720 Because if we spend more time, even if we don't know the 288 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,400 answer, if we spend more time, and that's where the unfocused 289 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,360 mind can help actually trying to figure it out, the answers often 290 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,640 arrive. The answers are not always 291 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,440 sought after by the brain and caught. 292 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,720 Sometimes there's an intelligence in waiting. 293 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,320 And so my so basically just to round off that idea, there is a 294 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,840 lot of anxiety, there's a lot of uncertainty. 295 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,840 And by using a technique like circa, you can use that every 296 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,320 Monday whenever you're in a high pressure situation. 297 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,400 At the beginning of each day, you can use some of the steps. 298 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,280 Not all of the steps, but you can know that if you use any of 299 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,120 those steps, you will change your brain for the better if 300 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,960 you're feeling anxious. I would totally believe that 301 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,200 because it gives someone a sense of control. 302 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,960 And if we, you know, often that anxiety is triggered because 303 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,480 someone's feeling everything's out of their control. 304 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:15,400 So if you can immediately say, well, I can chunk my day, I can 305 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,880 look at, you know, divided into what I can do and what I can't 306 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,120 do. Look at those priorities. 307 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,560 You know, I know I drive everyone in my house nuts 308 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,720 because they'll say, you know, mom, what's happening, You know, 309 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,080 they'll talk about something three weeks from now. 310 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,400 And I always think I'm on an ad as need to think about it basis, 311 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,200 you know, there's enough I'm thinking about now when I need 312 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,720 to think about it. I never miss anything, right? 313 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,120 But I'm not going to spend much time thinking about it until I 314 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:45,040 have to. Yeah. 315 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,760 No, absolutely. If you fill your brain with all 316 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,640 the stuff that you have to do, you probably will just go to 317 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,520 sleep and not want to get up. Yeah, it's a yeah. 318 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,000 But to this point about the unfocused, the reason I wrote 319 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,880 Tinker, Dabble, Doodle Try was because I wanted people to 320 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,160 recognize that there is a focus brain that can be helped when 321 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,960 you address emotions using techniques like circa. 322 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,599 But there's a part of your brain that only turns on when you 323 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,240 unfocus. It's called the default mode 324 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,280 network. We used to think of it as a do 325 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,480 mostly nothing network, the DMN, because like people would be 326 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,240 like, yeah, this network only, only lights up when somebody's 327 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,520 not focusing. And they were like, well, what 328 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,599 could possibly be the use of not focusing? 329 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:31,320 Well, it turns out that this is one of the most intelligent 330 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,120 circuits in our brains. And a lot of people live their 331 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:37,840 days with focus, focus, focus fatigue and then they're out for 332 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,840 the count, but they don't spend time strategically unfocusing 333 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,520 and. Oh, my gosh, Trini, you just 334 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,560 have resolved something that has fascinated me. 335 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,560 I recently was unloading, you know, just kind of clear stuff 336 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,240 out of our house, and I found all these notebooks from our son 337 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,920 from calculus his junior year of high school. 338 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,640 And I'm looking at these and I'm seeing all these formulas that 339 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,760 are making me break into a sweat because I don't remember 340 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,840 calculus at all. I'm not even sure I took it. 341 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,160 It looks like Greek to me. But on every other page there 342 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:24,560 are these elaborate graffiti drawings and like drawings on 343 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:31,600 every page in between the calculus formulas and everything 344 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,040 else. And I'm like, how did this kid 345 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,920 ever do so well in calculus? And now you're pointing out that 346 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:40,600 maybe it was because he was doodling. 347 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,280 Well, doodling can actually improve memory by 29%. 348 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,760 Really so? What? 349 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,600 Why is that? Well, part is, your brain is 350 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,680 metaphorically speaking, if you're all tense and you're 351 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,640 focused, your brain is like a stiff sponge. 352 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:55,560 It's not going to absorb information. 353 00:18:55,560 --> 00:19:00,560 But if you relax into something enough it, you begin to absorb 354 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,440 information. But so, so doodling, I mean, 355 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,480 doodling, the studies have been initially that it improves 356 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,600 memory by 29%. Then people said, well, actually 357 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,320 you should be doodling about about something that's relevant 358 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,640 to the material. So for any fact I state, there's 359 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,080 always a counterfact. I think it it depends on the 360 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,640 individual and it depends on whether that works for you. 361 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,800 But doodling is a form of unfocused that I talk about in 362 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,680 Tinker Dabble, Doodle Tri. And what I explain is that the 363 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,520 circuit, the default mode circuit in the, in the brain, 364 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,760 the, the, the default mode network is actually a network 365 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,400 that is responsible for abstraction, for processing 366 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,000 complexity. So when you've got 10,000 things 367 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,840 you have to figure out how to bring together and you don't 368 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,600 know how to do that, your focus network is not the network to 369 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,040 turn to. It's the reason you have some of 370 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,800 your best ideas in the shower is because that's when you're 371 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,360 unfocusing. And so, and, and, and it's also 372 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,040 called the crystal ball of the human brain because it's the 373 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,480 part of your brain that's responsible for prediction. 374 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,360 And I have so many thoughts about this because I I just did 375 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:07,040 a. Let's hear some because it's 376 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,200 fascinating, the part of our brain that's the crystal ball. 377 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,400 I think everyone would like to hear more about that. 378 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:14,600 Yeah. Well, if you think about it, I 379 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,760 mean, if you're a fund manager or you're trying to someone 380 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,120 who's trying to predict things in stocks, if you focus all day 381 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:22,640 but you don't have these periods of unfocused, you're not 382 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,600 activating the crystal ball of your human brain. 383 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,680 And so you're not actually allowing your brain to go into 384 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,320 prediction mode. And it's those people who've 385 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,880 learned how to focus, unfocus, what I call cognitive rhythm, 386 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,640 focus unfocused, focus unfocused. 387 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,880 Those are the people who learn how to use their brains best. 388 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,760 You know, Albert Einstein said that his discovery was a musical 389 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,840 perception. It wasn't a logical perception. 390 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:50,600 He found it in a musical way and then he was able to derive the 391 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,720 logic. So what I say to people is if 392 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,840 you're one of those people that says I've got to focus to get 393 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,160 stuff done, well, it turns out we spent close. 394 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,120 We actually spent close to 50% of our days with our minds 395 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:04,600 wandering. Our minds need to wander to 396 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,480 figure out who we are. You know, if you are just, if 397 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,480 you were your LinkedIn profile, then focus would be fine. 398 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,480 But everybody knows whatever your LinkedIn profile is doesn't 399 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,320 describe who you are and it doesn't describe what it feels 400 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,280 like to be with you. So what what we know about focus 401 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,520 is that it can drain energy from the brain. 402 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,920 So there was a study done that looked at people who were 403 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,280 focusing on a video and people who were just watching it as 404 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,760 usual. And at the end of that of of 405 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,040 that time, they asked, they gave them a dilemma. 406 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,120 Who would you save in this particular situation? 407 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,240 The people who were focusing couldn't care less. 408 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:40,600 They were like, let them all die. 409 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,040 Like I can't, I don't have the energy. 410 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:45,480 And then when they fed them glucose, they started to care 411 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,640 again. So when your brain is drained, 412 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,280 you, you can't even care about anything. 413 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,600 And so focus is problematic in that way. 414 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,400 It's also problematic when you don't pay attention to what's 415 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,640 going on around you. You know, like Anne Wang, who 416 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,640 discovered the word processor so focused on on version #2 he 417 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,080 didn't notice that the PC was making an entrance into the 418 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,480 market. And so he was focused but not 419 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:10,920 paying attention to what was around him. 420 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,200 And it's the same thing with not being able to. 421 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,240 If you're focused with your nose to the grindstone, you're not 422 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:17,800 paying attention to upcoming trends. 423 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,280 All of a sudden, you're sideswiped. 424 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:20,640 Your job is gone. You're like, what? 425 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,600 What happened? Well, you were not paying 426 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:23,880 attention to what was around you. 427 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,000 Also, when you want to innovate, you usually have to join one or 428 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,200 two points. And so if your focus is just one 429 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,840 point and it turns out that you do have a self, a kind of self, 430 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,480 which is the embodied self, which is served by the focus 431 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,320 network, which is like, you know, when you're in the zone or 432 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,640 when you watch a tennis player, just sort of like, they're like, 433 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,400 perfectly tense and relaxed. You're like, yeah, that's an 434 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,280 amazing thing. But the unfocused circuit is the 435 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,000 part of your brain that is responsible for getting together 436 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,680 the puzzle pieces to be like, this is who I am. 437 00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,400 And, you know, we evolve all the time and, and we are constantly 438 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,200 changing who we are. And in fact, I think it's to our 439 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,920 advantage if we can change the the arrangement of these puzzle 440 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,160 pieces. But something has to put it 441 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,800 together. And if you're focused all the 442 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,760 time, the pieces are just going to be scattered in your brains. 443 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,280 Like, I don't know what happened. 444 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,840 You know, I mean, I can't tell you how many people I've seen 445 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,160 over the course of my life who are brilliant, highly 446 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,440 accomplished, the whole world admires them. 447 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,680 Kinds of people who are like, I don't know what happened in the 448 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,680 last 20 years. I honestly don't know. 449 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,440 I feel like I was so focused in solving this world problem that 450 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,520 I never picked my head up. And now I'm thinking what 451 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,760 happened in my life. And, you know, some people have 452 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,480 have been in extreme distress about that. 453 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,760 So I always like to remind people that unfocused is helpful 454 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,280 to your brain and, and there are ways you can do this. 455 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,880 You can do this, you know, either by taking a booster 456 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,800 break. So instead of working the whole 457 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,080 day 15 minutes, go on a brisk walk or. 458 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,760 A Think of how I I've read a lot of Thomas Edison biographies and 459 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,400 he would work, said he really never slept any extended 460 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:13,920 periods, but he would work for three to five hours and take a 5 461 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:20,080 to 20 minute nap and then work and and he often said sometimes 462 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,920 he wasn't even sure he was napping. 463 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:27,520 He was just not thinking is how he described it, which is I 464 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,240 guess, you know, today we would call it meditating or getting 465 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,240 into that zone. Right, or strategic unfocused, 466 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,880 you know, strategic unfocused, activating the default mode 467 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,080 network in your brain, you know, cause 'cause. 468 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:40,880 So things like booster brakes can help. 469 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,800 There's a type of daydreaming that actually helps. 470 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,840 It's called positive constructive daydreaming and it 471 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,800 was first started by Jerome Singer in the 1950s. 472 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,240 And what he found was that it doesn't help to sit at your desk 473 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,800 and just Daydream. And it doesn't help to remember 474 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,280 the prior night's indiscretions. Like, Oh my God, what did I say 475 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,360 at the party? I shouldn't have had that much 476 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:02,440 to drink. I'm not sure how why did I 477 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,320 handle it that way. But what does help is positive 478 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,880 constructive daydreaming. And to do this just three steps. 479 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,320 Number one, you have to be doing something low key. 480 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,800 Like if knitting is your thing, then knitting or gardening or 481 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,080 going for a walk, but not stationary. 482 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:18,640 You have to, your body has to be moving. 483 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,160 And then what you do is you take your mind. 484 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,720 We spend our whole days perceiving, right? 485 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,760 Everything is looking outward. We don't spend time going 486 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,240 inwards. And that's what imagination is 487 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,400 about. So in that time, whether it's, 488 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,360 you can start with 5 minutes and build up to 20 minutes, if you 489 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:39,880 can just then turn that attentional apparatus inward and 490 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,480 you imagine something wishful or joyful like lying on a yacht or 491 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,520 lying on the beach or running through the woods with your 492 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,880 dogs. You, you actually activate 493 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,240 circuits in your brain that enhance creativity and you're 494 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,080 basically relaxing the focus part of the brain. 495 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,760 You know, you were asking earlier, like, why are we not 496 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,800 focused? Well, because we're focusing too 497 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,880 much. Why don't we actually take this 498 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,200 time to allow, to, to activate our full intelligence so that we 499 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,520 can get to a place where we're, we're harnessing everything that 500 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,200 we have. I I think one of the biggest 501 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,680 tragedies that I see in human psychology is that is that 502 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,000 people do not listen to themselves. 503 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,760 They listen to everything else. They listen to the news, they 504 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,200 listen to someone else's opinion. 505 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,280 But when they have a hunch telling them, I don't know why 506 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,880 I'm having that hunch, but hunches are there for a reason. 507 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,760 And if you took a little of that unfocused time and you didn't 508 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,760 think about anything but you just tried to think about about 509 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,280 that, yeah, I guess I, I am learning about. 510 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,600 If I, if I think back of any thing I might call have called a 511 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:53,560 mistake in my life, I had some kind of gut instinct that I 512 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,800 ignored. There was something that made me 513 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,000 question it, but I rationalized it. 514 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,960 My rational brain just came in and said no, or my forceful 515 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,120 personality said I'm going to handle this. 516 00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:08,960 But there was something there was some instinct. 517 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,240 I'm such a believer in listen to that instinct and we've also 518 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,560 talked about hypnosis. When you talk about visualizing 519 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,680 something, it's why love, you know the concept of hypnosis, 520 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,200 because you're giving, you know, that visual that you can give 521 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,800 someone that maybe can't get to it themselves. 522 00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:30,120 Yeah. And, and a lot of times, you 523 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,720 know, what people don't realize about the power of visualization 524 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,920 from a biological standpoint is there there's a condition where 525 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,440 people can't imagine. It's called a Fantasia. 526 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,680 Yeah. So they just cannot imagine. 527 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,680 But if you look in their brains, the visual parts of their brains 528 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,760 are working. So people are like, well, why? 529 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,600 What's happening? Well, what's what's what's 530 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,880 happening is that the other senses are not joining. 531 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,200 So the vision doesn't have any life. 532 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,280 So if, for example, you wanted to visualize living in a bigger 533 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,040 house and you were thinking to yourself, OK, I want to 534 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:03,880 visualize. It's not. 535 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,440 People would say, well, that's that's ridiculous. 536 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,320 Like what do you think you're just going to manifest it? 537 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,680 It's like, no, you're creating a blueprint for your brain. 538 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,480 You're helping your brain out. You're basically saying to your 539 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,960 brain, this is what I want. And then your brain doesn't have 540 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,520 to say, well, you know, he or she doesn't know what they 541 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,000 actually want. But then it's important to allow 542 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,720 the feelings to come in of like, what would it feel like when I'm 543 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,680 sitting in that movie theater in my house? 544 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,320 Like, it would be so cool. What would it feel like having 545 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,520 popcorn with my friends over? What would it feel like? 546 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,240 This is knowing that I don't have to get up one more day and 547 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,080 worry about how to make ends meet. 548 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:41,960 What would it feel like? You know, it's like you. 549 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,160 Have to put their feeling there, power in that I can't imagine 550 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,480 not being able to imagine because years ago I bought. 551 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,040 I said to myself, if I could make it through my first two 552 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,600 years in a business I started and I was saving every dime. 553 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,640 I mean, if I made it, I saved it. 554 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,040 I just, I was turning orange from eating too many carrots. 555 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,520 But I said, if I make it through, I had pictures of these 556 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,640 mansions. Don't ask me why I wanted a 557 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,320 mansion. Probably because I was living in 558 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,240 a a studio apartment about the size of the table we're sitting 559 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,320 at. But I wanted a mansion with 560 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,240 property and it had to be a mansion. 561 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,600 And I had pictures of my mother even used to send me pictures of 562 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,120 mansions and say, Diane, if anyone's going to get this, 563 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,640 we're going to figure out a way. Well, I ended up buying Alice 564 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,200 Cooper's mansion at one point. That's incredible. 565 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,400 Up in upstate New York, didn't keep it long because I found out 566 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:40,440 that mansions come with huge gas bills, electric bills and lawn 567 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,520 maintenance bills. But I got that mansion. 568 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,200 But it was that visualizing aspect. 569 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:53,600 What? What is it that triggers in our 570 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,280 brain when we use our imagination like that? 571 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,880 Well, when you're using your imagination, you're actually 572 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,600 starting to create a blueprint, but you're also when, if it's 573 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,840 real for you, you're involving yourself in that goal, right? 574 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,320 It's not like like, you know, there are all kinds of. 575 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:10,840 Yeah, I knew I had to work for it. 576 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,960 Right, but right but so a lot of people stay in a state of 577 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,200 desire. But what desire does, 578 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,760 paradoxically, is it separates you from your goal. 579 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,520 You're always wanting. Can you repeat that? 580 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,280 That's a good point. Desire often separates people 581 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,960 from their goals. Like I want a mansion and people 582 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,320 stay in this hope state, which is different from I want a 583 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,800 mansion. And then the mansion becomes 584 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,160 part of your intrinsic brain architecture. 585 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,360 It's, it's, it's literally, it's a, it's a, it's a figure that's 586 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,440 been, that's a blueprint in your brain. 587 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,480 And then you start to own it. And when you start to own it, 588 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,280 you are no longer separate from what The thing is. 589 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,440 So how do you define desire? Because you tied desire in 590 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,000 there, so I'm curious what desire means. 591 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,200 Well, I was thinking about it in that particular context from the 592 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,880 perspective of of the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali and and. 593 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,480 OK. And also from the perspective of 594 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,960 a discussion I had the other day with Thomas Hubel, who is an 595 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:22,400 amazing human being who's, we were talking about time and, 596 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:28,360 and, and the future and, and, and he was saying, well, you 597 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,800 know what? So I I'm very much a believer in 598 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,440 the block theory of time, which is that the past, present and 599 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,520 future don't actually exist. I believe that. 600 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,000 Too Einstein. I don't know why I believe it, 601 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,520 but I feel it every day. That that actually they're 602 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,680 continuous and the brain has to figure out how to make stuff 603 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,280 work. So we divide everything into 604 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,200 past, present, future, and we make it exist, but it's not an 605 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:51,880 intrinsic property of the universe. 606 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,280 Well, one of the things that I loved about what Thomas said was 607 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,600 he said, well, what people think is that the future is somewhere 608 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,560 else. Like the house you want is 609 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,720 somewhere else, and if it's somewhere else, it's going to be 610 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:04,960 somewhere else. He said. 611 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,400 What they don't realize is that they've got to dial into a 612 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,840 higher state of consciousness to bring the future into the here 613 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,360 and now. And so dialing into that 614 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,320 consciousness means when you're visualizing that you're, you're 615 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,960 getting into a state of belief, you know, you're increasing your 616 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,800 dopamine, you're decreasing your stress hormones, you're actually 617 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,000 activating reward centers that give you the motivation to 618 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,680 pursue what you need in order to get there. 619 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,600 There was a really cool study done that looked at the impact 620 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,440 that some people would say, well, what's all this hope? 621 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,440 Well, it sounds ridiculous. Well, consider this experiment. 622 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,240 There was a neutral paste that they gave people, but they put 623 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,480 it into three different tubes and they labeled them 624 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,840 differently. Paste paste, just like a paste 625 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,600 that you put in your skin. OK, one was one was one they 626 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,920 labeled lidocaine, but it wasn't lidocaine. 627 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,080 The other they labeled capsaicin, the active ingredient 628 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,080 in Chile. And the third, they just said 629 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,640 neutral. So when people expected 630 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,480 lidocaine, they put it in. They were like, wow, this is 631 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,000 kind of relieving. And you looked in their brains 632 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,600 and the reward center was activated by the belief that 633 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,640 this was lidocaine because it was not lidocaine. 634 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,480 You know, if you then look at the people who had the 635 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,920 capsaicin, the active ingredient in Chile, they were like, oh, 636 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,720 this stings a little. Like, what is this? 637 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,760 And the pain centers were activated and nothing happened 638 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,800 in the brains of the people who had the neutral pace which 639 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,880 indicated that in life you can change your brain based on what 640 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,920 you expect. You know, I have seen the for 641 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,440 over almost 30 years now I analyze, I've analyzed clinical 642 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,400 trial results for biotechnology companies to come up with the 643 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:46,560 messaging based on the results. And as you as a medical 644 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,320 researcher and Dr. could say, even more so probably than what 645 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,160 I've seen, even though I've probably like, no exaggeration, 646 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,360 probably looked at 2000 clinical trials. 647 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:02,200 The placebo effect is the most wild thing that can happen in a 648 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,600 clinical trial where all the people who didn't get that 649 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,520 cancer medication are all of a sudden feeling a heck of a lot 650 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,400 better than the ones who did. And it's mind blowing. 651 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,920 No, it is. And it's sort of, it's such a, 652 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,800 it's such a controversial area in medicine because the, I 653 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,440 really believe in the placebo effect, but I also believe in 654 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,440 the nocebo effect, yes, which is. 655 00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:26,280 Explain that for everyone because it's so important. 656 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,560 If you expect something negative to happen, it's probably going 657 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,199 to happen. Yeah. 658 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,719 You know, there's another good example of this placebo type 659 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,320 effect, which is ghrelin, which is the hunger hormone with, they 660 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,239 gave people milkshakes and they told one group you're getting a 661 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,239 600 calorie milkshake and they told the other group the truth, 662 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,239 which is that they were getting a 300 calorie milkshake. 663 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:49,000 Well, the 600 calorie people got full really quickly and, and you 664 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,400 look at the hunger hormones and it dropped because they expected 665 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,120 to get full. And so they changed their own 666 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,240 biology. So I I'm a huge believer in 667 00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:02,600 being attentive to the energy that we're carrying around us. 668 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,480 And I think what you're telling me about the visualization, and 669 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,320 it wasn't just any mansion, it was Alice Cooper's mansion. 670 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:14,280 It was a really cool mansion, like built in 1917 by Buster 671 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,640 Brown. You might not remember, but it 672 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,160 was. It was the biggest shoe company. 673 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,680 When I was little, everyone wanted a pair of Buster Brown 674 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,480 shoes. Well, it makes sense to me 675 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,000 because I think you embody some of what Alice Cooper is. 676 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,960 In my dreams. In the daring. 677 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,000 Yeah, I'm 18 and I don't know what I want. 678 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:35,920 I'm sort of like that all the time. 679 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,760 I'm completely in denial. It's. 680 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,280 One of the things I love about you I. 681 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,520 Refuse to think about it. I mean, people are like what I 682 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:42,640 think. No, I'm proud of it. 683 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,640 You go ahead and be proud of whatever you want to be proud 684 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,320 of. I do not want to fall into 685 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,240 conditioned ways of thinking. Yes. 686 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,320 And you know, studies have shown that if you fall into these 687 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,480 conditioned ways of thinking and you're like, no, well, you know, 688 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,560 I'm 70, you know, I'm 80. You have to go slow down. 689 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,440 Now those people slow down more than people of the same age who 690 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,320 are not thinking that. So, you know, it's one thing to 691 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,680 say I'm reality testing and I know what my age is is obviously 692 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,160 value to that. But I think we don't need to 693 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,280 fall into patterns of behavior that society forces us to think 694 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:15,760 about. It's so funny you say that 695 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,120 because I I'll talk to people and they'll say, yeah, I'm in my 696 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,080 60s. Of course things are starting to 697 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,920 fall apart and I'm like, I'm in my 60s and I feel like I'm just 698 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,600 getting started. I needed all that energy to 699 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,800 start to build up to get me to this point. 700 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,480 I have no idea if I'm going to combust tomorrow, but I never 701 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,000 knew that when I was 30 either so. 702 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,840 You know who's that have said youth is wasted in the Yeah and. 703 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,600 I think they were right. Another thing you said that I 704 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,520 thought was so funny. A few years ago one of my kids 705 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,760 said, mom could you stop telling me this is healthy and good for 706 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,880 me? He goes, I just like it. 707 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,920 But when you say that, I almost don't want to eat it. 708 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:56,880 I'm similar. I actually, I have like I 709 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,960 because I, if you actually, if you go deep down into studies, 710 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:01,960 you know, you've looked at clinical trials. 711 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,360 So you know, as well as I do that there's, there's so much 712 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:10,920 more complexity to what things actually are than than people 713 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:12,800 talk about. You know, I think I've mentioned 714 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,960 two once before when I look at the studies of good cholesterol, 715 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,040 and I find medicine really funny because medicine in a sense is a 716 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,280 representation of science, which historically has been separated 717 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,600 from the ethos of religion, but the terminology has made its way 718 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,920 right into medicine. Good cholesterol, bad 719 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,560 cholesterol, Let's judge the cholesterol, you know, high 720 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,400 blood pressure, low blood pressure, let's use ranking 721 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,080 systems for your for your blood pressure. 722 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,760 When in fact, if you actually look at what we call good 723 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,840 cholesterol and bad cholesterol, the effects are more complex. 724 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,160 There have been lots of studies that show that that bad 725 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,520 cholesterol could be bad, but there are also a large number of 726 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,040 meta analysis that show that if you lower bad cholesterol, you 727 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,440 may die sooner. Except, I mean, I never 728 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,720 understood the cholesterol thing, and I've worked with many 729 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,920 companies that have done it just plain on the fact of every cell 730 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,680 in your body needs cholesterol to make, why do you want to 731 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,640 reduce what makes cells right? And it's essential to the 732 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,200 structure of a cell. Yeah. 733 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,160 So, so that's just, is there some way that we can understand? 734 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,040 Differently. Yeah, like I think the next era 735 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,800 of my life, I'm very interested in figuring out how to present 736 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,160 complexity to the public so that you don't just go on a podcast 737 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,560 and be like, Oh my God, you're right. 738 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,720 I should be eating fewer, more antioxidants, so let me eat more 739 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:30,240 broccoli. Well, I like broccoli. 740 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:33,320 I think it's great, but but there are studies that show that 741 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,160 antioxidants can also accelerate cancer cell development if 742 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,800 they're already in use. So it's not nothing is just have 743 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,600 more and you'll get better. You know, everything is judging, 744 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,640 intuiting, being in tune with your body, looking at medical 745 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,120 research. And I love medical research 746 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,920 because I think it's it's better than witchcraft. 747 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,880 So I think I like the idea of looking at data, but I don't 748 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,840 think that that what you see is what you get when you look at 749 00:38:58,840 --> 00:38:59,800 data. I agree. 750 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,000 I think data, I always think of Trident chewing gum that always 751 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,360 said four out of five dentists recommend Trident chewing gum. 752 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,840 And I'm thinking, OK, so you're, you started Trident chewing gum. 753 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,520 You could have four sons or daughters or sons and daughters 754 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,320 that are all dentists. And are they going to go against 755 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,880 your chewing gum? No, but maybe that fifth person 756 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,160 you asked thought no chewing gum is bad for your. 757 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,480 So always I, I often say that, you know, they always talk with 758 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,080 conflicts of interest in studies. 759 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:29,840 That's a whole other story. I would. 760 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,600 We could really get into that one, Srini. 761 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,960 Well, I would love it if all the studies that say that that 762 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,120 vegetables are all you should eat. 763 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,400 I would love to know what the study investigators are eating. 764 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,680 And the same thing for meat is all you can eat. 765 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,120 I want to know what the study investigators are saying because 766 00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:48,280 I can tell you I would not conduct a study that showed that 767 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:49,880 you should not eat steak because I like it. 768 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,840 Exactly. It's your bias. 769 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,920 Enter with a a form of a bias or a prejudice to the end result. 770 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,320 Right. And so I think it's good for the 771 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,960 for the public. I don't think it's good to be 772 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,400 paranoid about it or to be afraid of it. 773 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,720 But I think to give yourself permission to ask questions and 774 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,800 and to and to explore things for yourself and turn on that 775 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,880 default mode network and go for that walk so you can say. 776 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,840 You know, when I put two and two together, I think I want to do 777 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,760 this, that or that. You know, someone once said to 778 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,840 me, if you had to give me some like your greatest piece of sage 779 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:29,320 advice, what would that be? I would say life is short. 780 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,800 Make it worth it for yourself. You know, too many people 781 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,280 realize this with their with their last breaths, and they 782 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,960 don't realize that they've been spending their whole lives 783 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,520 worrying about something that was pointless. 784 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:51,880 You know, I, I, I talk about death a lot and it's such an 785 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:57,000 important subject to me because it's so intimately related to 786 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,080 life. And when people get to be 50, 787 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,560 they so often say, oh, I'm at the 5th, I'm at my halfway mark. 788 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,280 Well, how many 100 year olds do you know and 100 year olds that 789 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:12,680 you'd want to be or I think you know, I live my life by. 790 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,840 You never know when the second-half began. 791 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,400 Absolutely. Yeah, you know. 792 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,360 Yeah. And, and, and you know, what's 793 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,040 interesting about about worry, if you look at the leading 794 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,520 theory of like why people worry, it's kind of disappointing 795 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,040 because it's a little bit boring, but it's also 796 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,520 interesting. It's sort of, it's called the 797 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,280 contrast avoidance theory. And what people have found was 798 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,040 that in life, you have peak experiences, you know, having a 799 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,840 child, getting a great job, having a great meal, and then 800 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,640 you have these traffic experiences, which is like 801 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,240 losing important people in your life or losing a job. 802 00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:47,840 Worry. People keep themselves in the 803 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,160 miserable middle. They have to keep themselves in 804 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,120 the miserable middle because they're afraid of the contrast 805 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,160 between I just had a great meal yesterday and someone died 806 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,240 tomorrow. They don't want to have that 807 00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:00,440 swing. But if they're mildly miserable, 808 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,440 when they get the bad news, they're prepared for it. 809 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,880 And so I always say to people, make a point of deliberately 810 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,760 adding some high level event to a week so that you know that 811 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,240 you're not spending yourself spending your time in this 812 00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:18,280 miserable middle trying to just stay there because you're afraid 813 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,320 of that contrast. You know, from an anxiety 814 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,760 perspective, one of my favorite quotes is that of Kierkegaard, 815 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:30,080 who said anxiety is the dizziness of freedom humans say 816 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,680 that they that they want. That, and that's a good one. 817 00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:37,400 Anxiety is. The dizziness of freedom that 818 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,600 everybody says they want to be free, but the moment you 819 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,840 contemplate that, you're like, no, I can't be free. 820 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,440 I would go crazy, I'd go wild, I'd lose everything that I had. 821 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,280 And so people choose balls and chains to look to, had to add to 822 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,520 their lives because they're afraid of that freedom. 823 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,840 And So what I say is, of course, you don't want a wildlife that 824 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,480 completely disrupts your life, but you can, you can navigate 825 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,520 toward a place of building degrees of freedom into your 826 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,280 life. And the more you can embrace 827 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,160 that and the more you can realize that anxiety is a signal 828 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,600 knocking on the door saying, hey, watch out. 829 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,560 You sure you want to be free? And then you're like, no, no, 830 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,080 no, I think I'd rather just be anxious. 831 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,840 I'll just be anxious so that I can never be free. 832 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,560 You know, it's a it's a, it's a contrast that Freud actually 833 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,960 commented on this and said, people come to me complaining 834 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,680 about their worry and their anxiety, and you try to take 835 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,760 their worry away from them. It's like taking a cub away from 836 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,840 a lioness. They're like, I want that worry. 837 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,800 Yeah, I want my worry. And it's like it's. 838 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,680 Like people identify with it, it becomes their identity. 839 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,400 And what I it's, I was talking to someone the other day and Oh 840 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,600 my gosh, I don't want this discussion to end, but we're 841 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,800 getting close. But I'd love your last thoughts 842 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,920 on this because I said to her, the person I'll leave them the 843 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,280 person I said, who would you? I often ask people, who would 844 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,520 you be if you stopped telling that story? 845 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,600 Absolutely yes and and and the self is is much more malleable 846 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,240 changeable than we realize that there's a phenomenon that I that 847 00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:08,480 I also called psychological Halloween ISM. 848 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,080 Oh my gosh, we probably should have started with that. 849 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,320 That's an episode into itself. But it was a. 850 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,880 Psychological Halloween. Which is based on a study that 851 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,280 showed that if I give you a creative problem to solve, and 852 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,280 if you take on the identity of a rigid librarian, you are 853 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,560 statistically significantly less likely to solve it than if you 854 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,600 take on the identity of an eccentric poet. 855 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,720 And what that tells us is that our inability to solve problems 856 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,200 is not because we don't have the mental capacity, but because 857 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,080 we're stuck in a version of ourselves that cannot solve that 858 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,920 problem. And so you want to put yourself 859 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,320 into a different identity, to give your brain permission to 860 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,440 think in different ways. I mean, This is why why people 861 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,360 have said that psychedelics are helpful. 862 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,520 They, they put the brain on pause. 863 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:59,040 They disrupt the neural patterns that describe your identity so 864 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,480 that you have this complete rearrangement of neurons. 865 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,040 And of course, there are lots of caveats. 866 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,160 The trials need to show that they're effective. 867 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,440 They they need to there's. That's a whole other shell. 868 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:14,480 Story right, but I do think that that's that we are frequently 869 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,640 limit up, we limit our lives because we are committed to our 870 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,920 frozen identities. And I think if we can recognize 871 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,640 that you don't need to wait for a certain age to change 872 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,240 something, you know, you're curious about something, try it. 873 00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,040 You know, it can be as simple as the reason I feel like my life 874 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,600 was transformed because I'd been denying how much I love jump 875 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,040 rope. And I was like, I saw someone on 876 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,360 Instagram like using this with music and dance. 877 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,040 And I was like, wait a minute, This is like, why, why have I 878 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,280 not had this in my life for like however many years I've wanted 879 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,480 back in my life and I want. And it's such a silly example, 880 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,000 but there's so many things like that where you realize that if 881 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,080 you can just, I think we've talked about this before, like 882 00:45:57,240 --> 00:46:00,000 I'm constantly falling in love and it's ridiculous. 883 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:01,840 It's ridiculous. Like it's sort of at some point 884 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,520 you're like, what is this feeling? 885 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,360 And Thomas had. Wonderful. 886 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,200 He had some wisdom about this, actually. 887 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,120 Thomas, when I was talking to him, said I I think you would be 888 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,160 less concerned about this if you just made a distinction between 889 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,920 merger, which creates torture, and transcendence, which frees 890 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,920 you. And if you recognize that you're 891 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,880 falling in loveness is about realizing that you are not 892 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,040 alone, that you are fundamentally connected to all 893 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,480 humans. It will open the door to a 894 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,880 transcendent gateway of your actual identity, which is not 895 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,920 solitary. Oh my gosh, I don't want to end 896 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,240 this, but that's a really good note to end on. 897 00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:43,000 And we did talk about falling in love. 898 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,280 And I told you about the painting that I have that says I 899 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,280 fall in love at least twice a day because I think it's a 900 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,960 wonderful thing and I do think of it as transcending. 901 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,440 But Oh my gosh, Doctor Srini Pillai, this just went too fast. 902 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,680 But boy, I appreciated your time today because I know you're busy 903 00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,760 and everyone this I, this has been a great episode. 904 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,880 So I know you're going to want to share it with your friends. 905 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,680 You're going to want to hit subscribe. 906 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,000 We have been recording in Manhattan Center. 907 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,240 My guest has been Doctor Shrini Pillai. 908 00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:18,440 Thanks. So much for having me in to you 909 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,600 as well. And you can find out all about 910 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,360 him in the links below. I highly suggest you check out 911 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,280 his website. Look up any of his books, every 912 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,920 single one is an eye opener and you're going to learn a lot. 913 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,600 So thank you. Thanks for joining me. 914 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,640 Hit subscribe, share this with your friends and thank you 915 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,760 Doctor Pillai. Thanks so much for having me 916 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:39,880 there.