1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,480 Hello everybody, I'm Diane Grissell. 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,120 I'm also known as Silver Disobedience, and this is the 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,160 Silver Disobedience Perception Dynamics podcast. 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:14,520 And I've got a really fun guest today that is having an extra 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,560 good day. So I'm honored to be celebrating 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,040 with him, but he's going to tell you why in a moment. 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,280 His name's Ray Deforest and we are going to be talking about 8 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:30,560 drag, SAG, AFTRA and we're just spill some tea as we sit around 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,280 here and chat. Ray, it's a pleasure to have you 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:35,880 here. Hello, it's a pleasure to be 11 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,640 here. OK, so today is a big day for 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:40,600 you. Why? 13 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:48,840 So last August I got diagnosed with grade 5 prostate cancer, 14 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,480 which is kind of the worst kind of prostate cancer you can have. 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,680 And on top of that, most prostate cancer is inside the 16 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,880 prostate and many times they pull the prostate. 17 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,080 My cancer is on the outside of the prostate, which they now 18 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,320 can't pull out because they can't guarantee every cell will 19 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:08,840 be caught and the cells could go everywhere in the body. 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,160 And when we found that out, they also said most likely that 21 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:21,640 cancer is throughout my body and there's not great future for me. 22 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:28,640 So you're dealing what you get that that sort of thing in your 23 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,640 life and you suddenly are looking at the end of your life 24 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,160 coming a lot sooner than you thought. 25 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:38,280 I'm 66, I'll be 67 in October. And then they did a scan. 26 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,000 They found out that there was not a single cell they could 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,920 find anywhere else in my body, which meant I could get 28 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,560 treatment. And last Thursday, which would 29 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,720 have been less than a week ago, what they did a blood test and 30 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,280 they said that my cancer is undetectable. 31 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,800 That is the best news I could have today. 32 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,560 Yeah. What a way to start an episode 33 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,200 on a really good note. Yes, on a really good note. 34 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,199 Now you have had a colorful, interesting life. 35 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:13,520 Very colorful, OK. People know you by your drag 36 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,920 name as well, which is Doris dear yes. 37 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:22,280 So let's talk about the evolution of Ray to Doris and 38 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:26,120 how this became an alter ego personality. 39 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:32,880 Yeah, So my mom, I lost my dad to complications after colon 40 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,560 cancer surgery. And then many years later, my 41 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,880 mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. 42 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,120 And I grew up in a family in Staten Island, NY. 43 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:50,080 I know good old Staten Island. We were a hard working middle 44 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,680 class family, but it was truly a family full of joy and love and 45 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,320 celebration. My mom was a model in the late 46 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:03,400 40s early 50s, walked runways in Paris and New York and gave it 47 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,400 up to be a housewife. And they were. 48 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:10,560 My dad worked was a hard working union guy for Bell Telephone and 49 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:16,600 ended up at one point becoming vice president of of the union. 50 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:22,320 So I come by my union work naturally, apparently, and we 51 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:27,360 were just all a loving, supportive, very close family. 52 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,840 So the five years of watching my mom go through Alzheimer's was 53 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,360 especially hard on me. You know, I was mom's boy and my 54 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:43,640 sister was dead's girl. So it was really hard working 55 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,400 through all her Alzheimer's. I mean, it's a hard thing. 56 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,800 How old were you? This was 11 years ago. 57 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,480 Oh, wow. And I learned very quickly, you 58 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,680 don't, you know, people argue, mom, you've got to remember like 59 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,200 they're not capable. That capability is is lost 60 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,320 through this disease. And I just learned to live in 61 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,360 the moment with her was a great lesson for me in many ways and 62 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,240 my humanity, which really helped me recently through my cancer 63 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,240 diagnosis. And I would show up and 64 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:19,880 sometimes it was 1970 to her, sometimes she didn't know. 65 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,160 In the end, she didn't know any of us. 66 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:28,480 But the loss of her eventually was so intense for me, the 67 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:34,360 trying to find a way to mourn and also remember to celebrate 68 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,320 my family, even though there was great loss. 69 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:43,320 And I always told stories about growing up in Staten Island with 70 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,000 Taffy and Duke, who are my parents, and their parties in 71 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,520 the Rumpus room every Saturday night, where everyone would come 72 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,280 over, dressed up and go down into the Rumpus room in the 73 00:04:54,280 --> 00:04:58,520 basement and party till sunrise. Were kids allowed to those 74 00:04:58,520 --> 00:04:59,640 parties in the. Rumpus room? 75 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,640 No, but my sister and I would sneak down the stairs and watch 76 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,400 and they would smoke too much and drink too much and sing and 77 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,360 damn. And I used to think, wow, they, 78 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,640 my parents. And then I realized, well, they 79 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:17,040 were only in their 40s. So I looked at what I did in my 80 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:22,360 40s and well, you know, apple tree, it's all right there. 81 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,320 So I decided, and I had been, I've been a full time actor 82 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,160 since 19 years old, an actor, storyteller, singer. 83 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:36,600 So to deal with the loss of my mom, I decided to write a show 84 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,200 and I sort of started crafting the show. 85 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,560 I found a musical director, we picked songs. 86 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,000 I was telling stories and I was doing it as myself, as Ray. 87 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,720 And it didn't feel right. It was sad. 88 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,720 And I didn't want to do something that was sad. 89 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:59,280 It was meant to be a celebration, and I had done, my 90 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:02,840 partner and I, we just celebrated 20 years together. 91 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,560 He's an amazing Angel in my life. 92 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:12,080 Especially lately, we decided he him and I had been working for a 93 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,520 nonprofit, the Imperial Court, where you kind of do drag to 94 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,560 raise money. And we would raise money for 95 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:23,400 lots and lots of nonprofits. And so I had Dundra. 96 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,960 I mean, if you're in the LGBTQ community, eventually you put on 97 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,840 the heels and the dress and go parade or something. 98 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:31,200 Have fun. And it's fun. 99 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,400 And he said to me, I think you should. 100 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,200 I was telling him it would didn't work for me. 101 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,080 He said, I think you should do it in drag. 102 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,600 And I thought, oh, but I'm an actor. 103 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,040 I don't do drag. I don't do shows in a bar and 104 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,320 jump splits. And I'm a terrible lip syncher. 105 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,520 And he said, no, I you should think about it. 106 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,600 So I talked to several friends of mine who I really trust their 107 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,640 opinions. And I decided, OK. 108 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,520 And I created a character based on my mother with stories 109 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:13,440 combining my sister and I created a show, Doris Dears Girl 110 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:20,040 Talk GURL. And no one knew I had ever known 111 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,000 I would do this kind of thing. And I did it in a theater at the 112 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,160 Triad Theater Uptown in New York on 72nd St. 113 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:31,760 And I remember being in the back in the dressing room and my 114 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,840 partner came in and I said, look, I know no one's out there. 115 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,240 Just make sure they no one wants to sit up front. 116 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,600 Make them sit up front. There's nothing worse than being 117 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,320 on stage and looking at you don't see a single soul city up 118 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,160 front. And he looked at me says, great, 119 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,200 we just turned away 20 people. Wow. 120 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,960 And I thought, first show how I've never done a cabaret show 121 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:58,120 of any kind. How do people even know we were 122 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,680 sold out? The theater said, we love this. 123 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:05,200 It's something very special. Your message, your joy, your 124 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,760 hopefulness, your celebration of family. 125 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,200 No one's doing this come back and I've been coming back for 11 126 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:18,280 years now to sold out shows. We produced a streaming series 127 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,320 and COVID, we did Four Seasons with seven awards, seven major 128 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:28,200 awards. I now I'm a judge for them, the 129 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,080 national Daytime Emmys and all these other things. 130 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:37,159 I judge and I mentor and. Did that all come as a result of 131 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:41,120 this show? Yeah, yes, everything. 132 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:48,600 I found the most unbelievable joy in this character. 133 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,400 And in many ways I've always said, and I know we both don't 134 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,680 sort of like this word, but I said I've never been so 135 00:08:55,680 --> 00:09:01,560 authentic on stage as when I'm Doris and Doris. 136 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:03,840 Doris. There's my Staten Island accent, 137 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,120 by the way. That's OK, I have a Long Island 138 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:08,560 one that pops out every song. Yeah. 139 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:14,920 You know, Doris, Doris, Tia, I, you know, she gives me the 140 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:20,920 freedom to storytelling in a way that as Ray, it doesn't come as 141 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,280 naturally. And I am a storyteller as Ray, 142 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:28,240 but it's different. And when I do these shows, you 143 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,640 know, because I write them, I produce them. 144 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,520 I have a huge orchestra. I mean, there's six months of 145 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:40,920 work in these little shows and I get to live those that when I do 146 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,240 2 shows over a weekend, I get to live with my family again 147 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,760 because they're all gone. I lost my sister right before 148 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,200 COVID to her brain aneurysm very suddenly. 149 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:53,320 So they're all gone. But then here I am on stage 150 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,200 telling their stories, celebrating all the stories I 151 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,480 tell are true. I mean, they're theatrical lies 152 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,840 because I am a storyteller, but they're all true. 153 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:09,720 And people continually say to me, you took me back to an 154 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:15,880 easier time. And you reminded me how even if 155 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,880 you grew up in a family that wasn't perfect, there was still 156 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,640 love and joy there. And I love that. 157 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,880 I love. I love the joy it gives me, and 158 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,200 I love the joy it brings to others. 159 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:34,680 And the first time I did the show, I always so I worked in 160 00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:37,120 Vegas as a singer and the biggest show in the world in 161 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,360 Jubilee. And Debbie Reynolds at the time 162 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,200 had a show. She had our hotel and like she 163 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,440 was trying to get a museum for all those costumes she she 164 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,840 owned. And I got to know her and she 165 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,840 would do a show in the hotel and she would stand outside for as 166 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,520 long as it took to meet with every single person in that 167 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,320 theater. And, and I said, why do you do 168 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,120 that? Everybody knows who you are. 169 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,560 And she said, you know what? She said, Ray, always remember 170 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:06,880 that those people in that theater are why you're working. 171 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,600 And if you didn't have them you you're not working. 172 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,800 That's a good lesson. Yeah. 173 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,400 And I do that. I stand out at after the show 174 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,760 and I meet everybody and that first couple of shows who. 175 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,440 Makes them Ray or Doris. Who makes what? 176 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,840 Who meets them? After Doris, Doris always meets 177 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:26,320 them. Yeah. 178 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:31,920 And I never break the character until I get home, close the door 179 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,440 and that, and then everything comes off. 180 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,800 But I would have these wives come up and say, my husband 181 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,680 would like to give you a hug, is that I guess, Of course. 182 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,840 And these husbands, because my audience is mostly straight 183 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:51,880 couples of a certain age, maybe 4045 plus, who have families and 184 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,200 I'd say, and I, they would, I would hug them and I could feel 185 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:02,200 them sort of exhale and relax into me. 186 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,520 And these are seconds long and then take a breath and step away 187 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,040 and say thank you, you're just great. 188 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,640 And I first I thought, what is, do they like the, the fake 189 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,520 double D's? Like what are they? 190 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,160 What are they enjoying about all this? 191 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,920 And I'm, you know, I'm 7 foot 2 and the whole outfit and I 192 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:30,560 realized that I represent everyone's mother, that I 193 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:35,760 represent the men. They would lean in and exhale 194 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,760 and it was like being on the couch. 195 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,520 You're head in mom's lap. You don't have a mortgage, 196 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,040 There's no stress, everything you're being taken care of. 197 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:52,720 And I grew to accept that and, and release that to them and let 198 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,280 them have that moment. And it's sort of just brings me 199 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:02,800 so much joy that I can give joy to others and in turn, it gives 200 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,040 joy to me. And I think that's that's just 201 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,320 such a wonderful thing. And that's a great thing that 202 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,680 Doris gave me. And I thought I was only doing 1 203 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:15,800 show would be over. And it's 11 years now and I'd 204 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:20,960 say it's 90% of my career and it's fantastic and it's taught 205 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,480 me so much. That's very heartwarming. 206 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,280 That is very heartwarming. And it's interesting, your 207 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,880 psychological insight into the dynamic you're creating with 208 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,800 people. Yeah, I mean, and so many people 209 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,360 said, well, I came the first time because, you know, you're 210 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:39,920 my friend, I want to support you. 211 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,640 And then they said, But I come back because I've never sat 212 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,520 through anything so wonderful and joyous. 213 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:52,680 Now when you create a show, how long do you run that show and 214 00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:54,680 then do you change up the content? 215 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:55,600 Are you writing a news? Show. 216 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:56,560 Every show is. Different. 217 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,920 Every show is different. And don't repeat anything. 218 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:03,120 And I try not to repeat stories, although there's always a little 219 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,880 overlap. Yeah. 220 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,720 So I do it like one of my big shows every year is a Christmas 221 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,080 show. I have 8 or 9 guests from 222 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,760 Broadway, Cabaret, Pop World, the, the Metropolitan Opera. 223 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,080 They come in and guest and we, they sing, they do a solo. 224 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,000 We talk about the joy of family and the holidays and what it 225 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,360 means to them. But every year it's a different 226 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:30,240 show, you know, every year it's a new topic, a new celebration 227 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,840 and it's always new. And then I do solo shows, 228 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:35,960 usually one or two during the year. 229 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,560 And I have a Sondheim show, I have my girl talk show. 230 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:46,040 I have more girl talk and more and more girl talk and it's and 231 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,400 it's great, but it's a lot. I mean, it's a lot of work. 232 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,960 You're, I'm constantly writing. I use, I try to do creative 233 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:59,680 thinking where one of the great exercises I love is 10 ideas in 234 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,120 10 minutes. You just take a pad and you have 235 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,280 10. You set a timer and you got to 236 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:11,040 write 10 ideas in 10 minutes, and it's a great exercise for 237 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,160 me. It's sort of like being in the 238 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,880 shower, right? Everybody has great ideas in the 239 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,640 shower, and what they think is that when you're in the shower, 240 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,520 there's nothing else. It's just water. 241 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,760 It's noise, and it's that kind of noise that your brain enjoys 242 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:33,520 and sort of opens it up and you have, I have great ideas in the 243 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,720 shower and I always have my phone in case I want to scream. 244 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:42,520 You know, Siri, take a note. But I love the practice of just 245 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,720 10 ideas in 10 minutes because sometimes it comes up with a lot 246 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,120 of not so great. And then all of a sudden there's 247 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,480 a nugget that I go, Oh yeah, that's going on the To Do List, 248 00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:00,800 You know, So I love that sort of creative thinking and the 249 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:08,040 creative, I love the creative mindset mindset, which is 250 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,040 basically, you know, I've been delving into this now there's a 251 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:16,520 lot of research into the creative mindset where some 252 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:23,400 people believe that they have a set of abilities and that's it. 253 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,680 And if they're successful or not, it's all based on that. 254 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,560 But the creative mindset says that you have a set of 255 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:36,320 abilities, but you're constantly expanding them and learning and 256 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,640 looking at new ways to use them. So your creative mindset is 257 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,800 open. And they've shown scans of 258 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,080 brains that people who use creative mindsets, their minds 259 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,680 are on fire, and people who don't, they're not. 260 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,000 It's very limited. So I like to work in that space 261 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,720 because it just opens me up to so much stuff. 262 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,040 I think that's such an important point and what I write every 263 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,680 day. And I have found just writing 264 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,560 every day has expanded how I think. 265 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,319 Now I find stories in anyone I'm speaking to. 266 00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:14,119 I'm like, Oh, that's an idea for my the next thing I'm going to 267 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,480 write about. But that creative mindset, what 268 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,599 I really want everyone to understand is you don't have to 269 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,640 just work in the arts. It it's a creative mindset. 270 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:28,560 Could be, you know, the plumber, the electrician that I mean, you 271 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,040 have to be pretty creative to figure out how pipes were going 272 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,600 to ask me, you know? For sure. 273 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,600 And I, I do corporate speaking, tell me so. 274 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,120 I do a lot of corporate speaking for the very, very large 275 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:42,920 corporations. What do you talk about? 276 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,600 Most of it is based on diversity, especially in today's 277 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:54,280 world where diversity in large corporations is being challenged 278 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,320 and being told to not have DEI or DEIB anymore. 279 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:04,920 But they I do them as Doris and I sing a nice storytell, but I'm 280 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,880 always talking about how and I interview people from the 281 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,560 company come into the TV studio and I interview them. 282 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,680 We do like an hour and a half show and it's shown to all their 283 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,360 employees and we talk about diversity and we talk about the 284 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:27,640 idea of how diversity expands the minds and it opens up ways 285 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,480 of thinking to the rest of their employees because of that 286 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,200 diversity and how important that is that the companies that 287 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,960 really believe in that, how that has helped the companies grow in 288 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,160 ways that they never thought was even possible. 289 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:45,040 I want to talk about that because we like to, I like to 290 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,480 explore the operating systems of society. 291 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:53,120 And I 100% agree with you on the concept of diversity. 292 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:59,560 Where my objection is, is I also believe you have to have 293 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,360 excellence in whatever somebody's doing because if I'm 294 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:08,960 in a burning building, I'm not looking for the diverse person 295 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,440 to come get me. I want the person to pass the 296 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,960 test that can carry my weight and Get Me Out of that building. 297 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,800 If I'm unconscious, you know, if I'm getting on a plane, I don't 298 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,040 want the person just because they were diverse. 299 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:27,000 I want the person who really like my nephew X Top Gun pilot 300 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,320 who's now flying for one of the big airlines. 301 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,760 I want that guy who can handle stress. 302 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,160 You know, a plane load of people is nothing to him compared to 303 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,240 getting shot, not at 85 times. You know, his in his, yeah, you 304 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:44,040 know, F35 or F18. So that's how do you, how do you 305 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,120 navigate that when you're talking with people corporately? 306 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:54,400 Well, I mean, there is always this argument, there's always 307 00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:00,800 this argument that diversity is preventing the real person who 308 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,360 should get the job from getting the job because diversity, it's 309 00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:08,120 often. I don't. 310 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,080 I think that companies are still looking for the right people. 311 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,040 But like in my business, for example, in the actor business, 312 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,360 a lot of people believe that only people in the LGBT 313 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,960 community should be playing LGBT people. 314 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,840 Then there's this sub, the subset of people who believe 315 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,320 that we're actors and we should be playing all roles. 316 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:40,320 Like I'm an actor if I'm hired, if I'm I'm if I'm gay, I should 317 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:43,240 certainly be able to play a straight person. 318 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,920 So why can't a straight person play a gay person? 319 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,960 It's a fair argument. And what do you think about 320 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:50,440 that? Because it is an interesting 321 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,680 when there was some movie that just they did AI instead of 322 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:00,400 hiring actual, you know, people who were very, very short. 323 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,400 Oh boy, let's open up the box of AI that's. 324 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:08,760 The whole program, Oh my gosh, back to that, because I want to 325 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,040 talk because I know you're with, you know, SAG AFTRA and there's, 326 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,320 you know, the whole writers Guild strike, you know, there's 327 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,360 all that. So we I do want to get to that, 328 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:19,360 but I would love to, you know, what's your take on well, 329 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:21,520 because there's so much about, you know, cultural 330 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,920 appropriation, like if I want it or braids in my hair, am I 331 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,920 stealing it from the Indians or who knows what it's like? 332 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,480 In some. Ways we've gone backwards in 333 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,960 that. Yeah, I mean, I believe in the 334 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,160 argument, for example, gay people like we were, we were not 335 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,920 allowed at the table for 100 years. 336 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,160 We were not accepted, we were not allowed. 337 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:49,720 So if you're a director and one of the parts calls, especially 338 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:54,440 now for a trans person, I believe that. 339 00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:01,200 I believe that it's the casting and director's job to try to 340 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:04,000 find a trans person to fill that role. 341 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,400 There are plenty of trans people in the union and not in the 342 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,080 union who are great actors. So we've never been at the 343 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,400 table. So let us at the table if we 344 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:21,280 don't fit OK, but at least give us the chance after us not being 345 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:22,880 allowed. Their position? 346 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,800 Yeah. And if we're not right, OK, 347 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:31,200 there was a a new musical that was Andrew Lloyd Webber, I think 348 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,360 was Andrew Lloyd Webber a new musical premiering many, many 349 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:39,040 years ago in London. And the star of the musical was 350 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,520 supposed to be of Asian descent of a certain type. 351 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,640 And they decided way before all this sort of diversity stuff 352 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:53,920 that they were going to do their best to find a true Asian woman 353 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,440 to play this role. They auditioned all over the UK, 354 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,440 couldn't find someone. They expanded into the rest of 355 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,640 your couldn't find. So they actually flew over to 356 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:08,400 Asia and auditioned there. And that's where they found Lea 357 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:14,560 Salonga, a very young girl who was singing pop and brought her 358 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:20,240 in because they and they did their duty to find the right 359 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,320 person who fit the ethnicity to create this. 360 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,080 And of course, we all know Lea Salonga is a huge star and she's 361 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,160 amazing. She's on Broadway right now in a 362 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,520 Sondheim musical. And that's the kind of work I 363 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,800 think that we should do. I think we, if there's a gay 364 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,440 role, try to find a gay person and if it doesn't and you can't 365 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,560 find the right person, then go further, right? 366 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,640 I think that's fair. Again, we weren't allowed at the 367 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,800 table. It allow us now. 368 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,440 And I think at times does it feel a little extreme? 369 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,560 Yes. But eventually it will all equal 370 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,440 out and settle it. And I think the trans community, 371 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,600 and I am not trans, so I can't say exactly what their 372 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,880 experiences. I mean, they're part of my 373 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,880 community. I treasure trans people. 374 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,880 They've been a part of every culture since the dawn of time. 375 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,480 And if you don't believe that, then you don't believe in 376 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,000 anything. You don't believe in real 377 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,840 history. So I feel like that community is 378 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:38,720 going through many of the things that we as male gay people and 379 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,600 lesbians went through years ago, fighting for our community to 380 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,320 move upfront. And now they're going through it 381 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,720 with a subset of problems. And, and I see it just working 382 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,520 in our union with the trans community and how hard it is for 383 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,400 them right now. And within the trans community 384 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,880 there's many different opinions. Like there was talk about giving 385 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,800 out non binary awards and trans awards at the SAG Awards. 386 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:09,920 And I had many trans women say to me, I don't want a special 387 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,000 award. I want to be considered a woman. 388 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,480 I want to be considered a woman and win a best actress award, 389 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:23,120 not a best trans actress award. So it's a. 390 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:25,880 It's very complicated. It's very complicated and I 391 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,400 think that is where the break started to happen, particularly 392 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,440 when you saw it in sports. Because, I mean, you know, there 393 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,680 was a story just now about fencing at Wagner College in 394 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,600 Staten Island that they removed a girl refused. 395 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:50,240 She knelt down and refused to do her fencing with this trans 396 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,800 woman. And of course Fox News was is 397 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,760 all over it. This is how it should be and. 398 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,680 I I think it's tricky. I think it's. 399 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,720 Tricky, but the science. You know what, I but I grew up 400 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,240 when there were, there were no sports for women. 401 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:11,000 You know, maybe maybe you could play volleyball, you know, maybe 402 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,640 there was softball and there was gymnastics, field hockey. 403 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,920 But you know, maybe you need a third league for that or a third 404 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,880 division. But when it gets to something 405 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,600 extremely physical, oh, that's a tough one for me. 406 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:29,920 Well, except all the science. And I believe in science, all 407 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,880 the science shows. So for let's let's clear 408 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,960 something up for people out there. 409 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:42,840 No one becomes trans overnight. No one decides in October I'm 410 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:49,160 going to be a woman now and in January is full, is fully trans 411 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,680 and has got it's a very long process. 412 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,600 There's lots of psychology involved, being very careful. 413 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,120 Are they really ready for this? Then there's hormone therapy and 414 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:04,800 then possibly surgery. Not all trans people want to 415 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,520 quote UN quote pass. They just want to live how they 416 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,200 want to live. But the science is also very 417 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:16,320 clear that by the time they're they are fully trans and have 418 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:23,240 become women because of hormone depletion and and estrogen added 419 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,120 into their bodies and all the testosterone taking out their 420 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:31,560 must, their muscle strength goes down by a huge percentage. 421 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:38,200 It's not like they're now men with man muscles competing 422 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,680 against women. Their musculature has gone so 423 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,120 far down, their strength is good. 424 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:49,080 So in fact, they're almost equal to women, and the science shows 425 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:50,720 that. Well, wait a second. 426 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,480 I would have to. I would have to object to that 427 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,240 because I've spent 27 years in biology, so the science will 428 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,440 never actually show that. But you can certainly alter 429 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,280 hormonal structure. Yes. 430 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,400 You know whether that altering of hormonal structure makes 431 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,720 someone become a male or a female. 432 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:13,120 I think that would be a stretch, but but I can understand your 433 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:16,840 argument, your point. I'm on hormone depletion because 434 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,680 of my prostate cancer. They've taken out all of my 435 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,840 testosterone and any other hormones. 436 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:28,240 I lost 35% of my musculature in four or five months. 437 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,200 You want other chemotherapies as. 438 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,120 Well, no chemotherapy. I had radiation radiation. 439 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,640 I used to do 3035 push ups and I started working out a month ago 440 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,640 and I couldn't do 3I became so weak. 441 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,640 My muscular, my percentages went so down from the removal of my 442 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,640 hormones and all of that. And now my muscular is going 443 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,120 back up. And because I had to be very 444 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,800 careful about bone density and muscle loss and all that kind of 445 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,160 stuff. And I do think it's a 446 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,760 complicated issue. Where does it sit? 447 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:13,120 What? But so often I hear complaints 448 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,080 about the trans community, for example. 449 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,480 And again, I am not trans, so I don't know their full struggles 450 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,800 and I certainly don't understand everything about them about it. 451 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,680 But what I do understand is respect for humans. 452 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:33,960 And if if someone says to me, if someone says to me, I say, hey, 453 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,280 David, how are you? And he says, you know, I don't 454 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,160 like to be called David. I like to be called Dave. 455 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,000 Oh, OK, I'll call you Dave. So if I meet someone and say my 456 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,640 pronouns, are they them? OK, they them. 457 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,400 What's the big deal? Does it change my life in any 458 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,680 way, shape or form respecting what another person wants to be 459 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,680 called? Respecting what? 460 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:01,520 Another person, what they reportedly what their gender is, 461 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,440 if they say they're trans, OK, you're a trans woman, you're a 462 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,040 trans man, whatever. It doesn't change my life in any 463 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:15,520 way. And I just think too often we 464 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:21,360 get caught up in this thing about the trans community and 465 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,680 even the gay community and people get, I see these 466 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,200 arguments and I think to myself, how does this affect your life 467 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,960 in any way, shape or form? Well, I think, I think, I think 468 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,440 there was no issue with that. I mean, I was talking with 469 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,480 someone earlier about New York. I mean, in the 1980s, nobody 470 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,600 cared. I mean, nobody cared. 471 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,880 And it became, I think the issue became when it was this is who I 472 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,880 am and you must approve it, that there's a difference in life. 473 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,920 I mean, I can be a jerk, but you don't have to approve that I'm a 474 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,400 jerk. You know, you can say you're 475 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,000 being a jerk, Diane. You know, you have the right to 476 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,960 say that. You know, So I think it's the 477 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,280 insistence. I think it's insistence. 478 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,080 So we went for, you know, I think it's you have to 479 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,600 personally accept yourself before you start to demand it of 480 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,240 others. And when you personally accept 481 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,560 yourself, frankly, I don't think you care who signs on for that. 482 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,080 You know, you decided you were going to do a show as Doris. 483 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,880 And this is who you're doing a show as. 484 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,960 You know, I'm not you're not looking for approval. 485 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,120 You're saying this is this is a creative way. 486 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,320 I want to express my love for my family, my creative being. 487 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,520 And look at where you are 11 years later celebrating it. 488 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,000 Yeah. And I think we all have 489 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:45,880 different ways of I mean, in my, in my youth, oh, the youth, I 490 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,880 marched in parades, I marched, I knew Larry Kramer, I marched, I 491 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,400 do that. I don't do that anymore. 492 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,040 I'm the strength to do that anymore. 493 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,400 God knows. But I mean, I, I am in parades 494 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:01,720 and stuff, but you know, like I do Doris and people see her as 495 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,040 an actual person because I believe she is. 496 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,880 And in many ways that changes people's opinions of something 497 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,360 that maybe they don't understand. 498 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,280 Like why would you do drag? Why are you doing? 499 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,360 It's never, why are you doing Doris? 500 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,120 Why are you doing that? It's just, Oh my gosh, I love 501 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,040 Doris. And to me, that's a change in 502 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,760 someone's perspective and idea of drag. 503 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,760 Like I never in my press for my show, I never call her a drag 504 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,360 queen. I just, she's just Doris. 505 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,440 She's just a person. I think sometimes the insistence 506 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:45,440 of acceptance is born from a history of being hidden, you 507 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:51,840 know, and so not, you know, in my as a gay man, you know, the 508 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:56,040 Stonewall riots happened and we insisted that people accept who 509 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,000 we are at a time when most gay people couldn't accept who they 510 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,520 were. They were afraid we could. 511 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,720 I mean, it was illegal in New York until I think it was 84 512 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,040 something that sodomy was still illegal. 513 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,000 They could come in your apartment if your neighbor 514 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,640 called the police. And I knew friends that that 515 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,960 happened because you were sleeping with someone of the 516 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,680 same sex. So I think a lot of the anger 517 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,600 and angst and the insistence of acceptance just comes from a 518 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:29,760 history of non acceptance. And I think some people use that 519 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:37,560 as a way to find their comfort, whereas again, at my age, I 520 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,400 don't really give a crap. But let's talk about something. 521 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:47,760 I bet you do give a crap. Sure, because AI is something we 522 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,480 touched on a minute ago and I want to make sure we explore 523 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,280 this. You are very active in SAG 524 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,760 AFTRA. The writers strike just 525 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,640 happened. We're watching all kinds of 526 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,280 things. We're watching I'm I've seen 527 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,200 models who were fit models get their all their measurements 528 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,239 taken and now they're their AI version is getting paid instead 529 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,719 of them. So it's happening in so many 530 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,199 areas. How is this? 531 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,080 What's your take on what's happening here? 532 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,600 So, you know, we went through a long strike period. 533 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,159 There was the writers strike and then SAG after had our longest 534 00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:25,199 strike. It was over over 100 days I 535 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:31,679 believe and we were fighting for a fair contract and our our 536 00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:35,760 contracts with SAG. After that we got that we agreed 537 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,920 upon with the AM PTP, which is the AM PTP is for producers. 538 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,080 That's the producers kind of Guild. 539 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,040 It's there. It's not a union, but it's their 540 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,639 sort of Guild. And the AM PTP is the ones who 541 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:55,800 negotiate with SAG After with the Writers Guild for all the 542 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,000 producers. They're tough. 543 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,080 I mean, unions have some of the best negotiators out there. 544 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,080 They are strong. They stand tall. 545 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,480 Our president, Frank Drescher, fought long and hard. 546 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,640 Now strike. We got some of the best AI 547 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,080 protections out of all the unions that were striking at the 548 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,920 time. SAG After achieved some of the 549 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,360 best AI protections for the moment because our contracts 550 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:22,800 are. Yeah. 551 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,160 How long does that contract last? 552 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,440 3-4 years or something and then we renegotiate. 553 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,560 So we fought long and hard and we're also fighting on the 554 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:37,200 government level, trying to get protections of our image 555 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,680 federally. And we do have some state 556 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,960 protections, but we're trying to get it federally. 557 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,000 And it's actually, I think it's going on the floor soon in 558 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:53,840 Washington. So as it sits right now, you 559 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,880 could be a background actor filming a series and they can 560 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,640 say they can give you, they have to give you advance notice that 561 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,760 you're going to be scanned and they're going to skip. 562 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,560 They're asking to scan you. They can scan you if you accept, 563 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,360 but you always have the option to say no. 564 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,000 Now they could say then we're not going to use you. 565 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,560 It's the same as nudity. We have nudity clauses. 566 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,480 If it's in the contract, you say no, I don't accept those, I'm 567 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,400 not doing nudity. Then they could say, well, 568 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,960 that's part of the deal. We don't want you or OK. 569 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,680 Well, the thing that always got me in modeling contracts where 570 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,800 it says something like, you know, we have the right to 571 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:36,000 alter, modify, adjust. I mean, those clauses are long. 572 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,640 They're very long. And. 573 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:40,600 Frankly. Terrifying when you think about 574 00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:43,360 putting someone's head on someone else's body or. 575 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,960 But as an artist, I mean. If it was a really good body, 576 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,800 maybe. Yeah, it's like most have most 577 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,200 actors have a rear end per second and you know, a hand 578 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,320 second. We always want to be perfect. 579 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,600 But you know, as artists, we want to work so many times we'll 580 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,280 in the past we would, we would accept these kind of things 581 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,440 because we just want to work and we don't want to get 582 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,800 blackballed. But it it like they can now scan 583 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,240 you. And if you agree, then they, if 584 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:14,600 they use that scan as a background in the background for 585 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,000 scenes that you're not on set, you now get paid a full day's 586 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,840 wage. And for everything they do, you 587 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,760 get paid a full taste wage. And we have people watching and 588 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,280 making sure they're following it. 589 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,720 But we have that protection. Now. 590 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:31,680 We also have a set of very famous, the sort of top of our 591 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,080 union, which by the way, I'm not for those out there. 592 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,000 I'm very famous in my own mind, but not many other people's. 593 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,400 But because I'm the, we're the hard working sort of middle 594 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,040 class actors. But then you have the stars now 595 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,400 they can be scanned and they can sell their image and sell their 596 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,720 voice and they get paid for it. And the union can help them 597 00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:57,320 negotiate those contracts to make sure they're protected 598 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,320 correctly. And there are many stars doing 599 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,840 that right now. I mean, we've seen that before 600 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:08,440 in commercials when they used Marilyn Monroe in the past and 601 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,400 they would go to the whoever handles the Marilyn Monroe 602 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,760 estate and they would sign a contract and they would get paid 603 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:21,640 for the use of Marilyn Monroe. So now under AI, many stars will 604 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,440 get scanned, and then they sell that scan to companies to use 605 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,080 and get paid quite nicely for it. 606 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,000 And they don't have to go to set and they don't have to sit and 607 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,120 make up, and they don't have to be in the rainstorm or the snow 608 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,080 to film something. And they're making money off of 609 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,760 their image and they hold it. You know what I thought was 610 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,680 interesting when I saw the aftermath of the Super Bowl 611 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,400 commercials? That the AI commercials did the 612 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,080 worst as far as audience response, right? 613 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,280 Yeah, and I was in a Super Bowl commercial this season. 614 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,080 It was very exciting. Yeah. 615 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,360 I mean, we are fighting constantly for AI protections 616 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,120 because they. I mean, AI is. 617 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,920 I mean, I don't think I know anybody who doesn't use ChatGPT 618 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,760 at this point. I mean, if you're a writer, it 619 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,160 saves a lot of time if when I have ideas and I can feed them 620 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,280 through and help get a little more clarity and you know, 621 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,960 people who don't use it don't understand using ChatGPT is not 622 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,640 easy to have it put out something of value. 623 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,960 You almost have to write more for that than you would 624 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,400 normally. You have to, you really have to 625 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,240 prompt it with a lot of ideas and a lot of ways and how you 626 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:46,000 want it written to get something that's even mildly usable. 627 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,040 And then you have to and then you take it and then you have to 628 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,040 edit and re edit and re. It's a lot of work. 629 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,360 It's not just how it spits it out And I put it out there. 630 00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:58,080 It's a lot of work and a lot of, but everybody's using it. 631 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,720 The image AI stuff, I mean, six months ago it was terrible. 632 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,200 Here we are six months later. It's unbelievable. 633 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,520 I watched an entire film made with AI. 634 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,040 Is it perfect? No, but in four years it will 635 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,360 be. It's going to be perfect in a 636 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:15,760 year. Which is going to be 637 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,320 interesting, you know, renegotiating a contract because 638 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:24,080 wasn't one of the big contract issues, you know, like if 639 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,960 someone was redoing an ending or change, you know, doing tests 640 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,800 for different endings and they were using AI imagery and the 641 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,360 writer and AI for writing the end of the script with a 642 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,000 different right approach. Yeah, there's all of these 643 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:44,160 issues that in our negotiations we tried to cover the Writers 644 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,240 Guild tried to cover the directors killed, you know, 645 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,840 there's all these that we all tried to get protections. 646 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,600 We all tried to build up protections looking to the 647 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,200 future. That's why we have really good 648 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,240 lawyers and really good note negotiators. 649 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,120 And it's a it's really complicated and it's changing 650 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,680 day by day. But I'm and there are people 651 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,360 that say the union doesn't do enough. 652 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,200 But I think if you know how the union works, first of all, 653 00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:15,840 unions are federally, federally regulated. 654 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,400 There's a lot of rules and laws that we have to follow. 655 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:21,760 You're very active in the. Yeah. 656 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,720 So I serve, well, I serve on the LGBTQ committee here in New York 657 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,800 and nationally. I'm on the New York board for 658 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,280 SAG after in New York, and I'm an alternate for the national 659 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,000 board, although as an alternate you fill in spots. 660 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,720 I've been to every meeting over the past year because lots of 661 00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:43,560 people just can't make it out to LA. 662 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,080 So I'm flying to LA in two weeks for the national board meeting. 663 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:53,640 So I'm involved through the years, most of my work has come 664 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,840 through people who believed in me and supported me and helped 665 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,720 me have a career. So at this point in my life, I 666 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,320 it. I believe that mentorship is one 667 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,800 of the best things you can do, especially as an artist or in 668 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,960 any industry. I've been mentored through my 669 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,720 life. It's how I learned to produce. 670 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:15,600 It's how I learned to dance better, sing better, appear on 671 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:21,160 camera better, and so I'm trying to give as much back as I can. 672 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,680 How are you doing that? Through my work union, I help 673 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,120 people teach. I teach people sort of cabaret 674 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:33,120 classes and how to because that's a very particular art 675 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,920 form as opposed to Broadway and all the different art forms. 676 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:41,320 I'm scheduled, I think next year to to teach through SAG after 677 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:47,440 has a teaching platform to teach There we go again authenticity 678 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:52,960 in acting, our favorite word buzzword because as an actor and 679 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,600 to so to have a career. I try to teach people on having 680 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:03,640 a career and what that means and I always tell them you better 681 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,680 love it more than anything. You better just imagine that you 682 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,480 couldn't do anything else otherwise you're not going to. 683 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:15,880 It's being an artist is as a career is hard and complicated. 684 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,160 Of course. What is it these days? 685 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,600 There is no guarantees in life, right? 686 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,120 But it's full of rejection and psychologically speaking, you 687 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,160 have to be ready. It's 90 percent, 95% rejection. 688 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,040 And that's hard. That's hard to live through 689 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:38,640 sometimes, especially if your personal life is in crisis or 690 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,960 going through a tough time and then you're being rejected on 691 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,680 your work site. Those two combined can be 692 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,520 debilitating. And I know that I've been 693 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:55,080 through that in my career, but I was scared to death even at 19 694 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,120 when I first stepped on my first real job. 695 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,280 I was scared to death to have to be a waiter or a bartender or 696 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:08,720 work in a department store, and that fueled me to constantly be 697 00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:12,000 looking for work, to constantly be better at what I do. 698 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,280 And now it's 48 years later and I'm still working. 699 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,760 Oh my gosh. You know, that's a credit, 700 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,200 that's a credit to perseverance and talent. 701 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,960 One of the things right, you said several times is you've 702 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:32,480 used the word complicated. If you were mentoring someone, 703 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,760 how do you? What does complicated mean to 704 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:48,240 you in your creative existence? Well, boy, I think that the 705 00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:52,440 better you have a clear sense of who you are. 706 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,240 I think that's one layer that I think people should always 707 00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:02,280 figure out first is to really and look when when you're young, 708 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,080 you don't. When you're young, you think you 709 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,000 can do anything, right? And that's what you should be at 710 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,520 22. You should think you could save 711 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,080 the world tomorrow because that's what youth is for, right? 712 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,440 And those are the people who go out there and really fight. 713 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:25,160 But to be like an actor or a singer, I think you really have 714 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:30,000 to be honest about who you are and what you are. 715 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,600 That doesn't mean that you put yourself in a box, but it's the 716 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,840 a place to start. If you know who you are, then 717 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:42,320 you tend to get a For me, I tend to get a clearer sense of where 718 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,600 I want to go and what I want to do and what caught. 719 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,000 Then it becomes what kinds of shows I'd rather do than that. 720 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,680 Like, I chose not to come back to New York. 721 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,720 I went, I got hired by Disney. I went down to Disney World. 722 00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:57,840 I worked for five years. I worked. 723 00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:02,240 I was a kid of the Kingdom, which was sort of a faux 724 00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:05,920 Mouseketeer kind of a thing. We did shows, we sang Disney 725 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,720 medleys, we did TV specials, traveled around and all that 726 00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:12,160 kind of stuff. It was an amazing training 727 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:17,120 ground, mostly because you're doing 7 shows a day and 90% 728 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:22,240 humidity out in front of a castle and you learn 729 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,600 perseverance. You learn to come out seven 730 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,400 times and do a great show and not show that you're about to 731 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,560 pass out from the heat. And it was a great training 732 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,920 around ground on being a professional. 733 00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:37,560 And when that was over for many years, I would get simply hired 734 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,480 without an audition even because oh, you were a five year. 735 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,360 Oh, you don't. We don't need to see. 736 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:48,880 We know you can do this. And I chose. 737 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,800 Many people went from that and came up to New York and we're on 738 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,120 Broadway and I've had great careers. 739 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,000 I chose not to do that. I chose I grew up here and I, I, 740 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:03,120 I knew actors in my day and I saw the struggle in New York and 741 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,680 I decided to go elsewhere. I worked on cruise ships. 742 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,000 I lived in Denmark for three years, Bermuda for two years, 743 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,800 moved to Vegas. I decided to take a different 744 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,440 path and it was because I had a pretty good sense of what I 745 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:22,640 could do at that point in my life and what I wanted to 746 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:28,440 experience. So that complication that sort 747 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,560 of as an artist, what do I do next? 748 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,800 Where do I go? Do I, am I just going to get 749 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,800 online at the next audition and just keep doing that and hope 750 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,960 for the best? Instead, I had, I think, a 751 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:45,320 better, clearer view of my strengths and who I was. 752 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,280 And that led me to different to my different places and to 753 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:54,080 continue to work and never stop. And that was my choice. 754 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,280 So people say, I can't believe you've never been on Broadway. 755 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,760 And you know, they almost put you down as if, oh, you didn't 756 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,200 do Broadway. Oh, and I often think that's 757 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,880 come on, I mean, good for the people on Broadway. 758 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:11,760 Those people are superheroes. 8 shows a week, dancers, singers. 759 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,240 They have to be like superheroes. 760 00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:15,440 So it's. Well, you're doing that when you 761 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,280 do your one one person show for 11 years now. 762 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,280 I. Know, right, I mean, I think you 763 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,600 take, I would argue you've taken Broadway to the next level. 764 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,720 You're self producing from start to finish, which is phenomenal. 765 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,640 Yeah, I can't wait to catch the next. 766 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,040 Show so I. Better be on the list of when 767 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,160 the of course you know the dates come out. 768 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,160 I'll be the first in line to buy tickets. 769 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:38,320 Thank you. Yeah. 770 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,800 Yeah. So I don't know, It's, I think 771 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:47,280 life is complicated, right? Especially these days, politics 772 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:53,160 or what they were are no matter what side of politics you want, 773 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:58,400 it's all very complicated. And I, I again, I think I said 774 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,200 earlier, I really try to find joy in every day. 775 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,040 So I was just away. I was down in the Caribbean and 776 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,720 I was walking to get a soda or something and I was barking down 777 00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:15,280 this winding path. And it was just beautiful day. 778 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,400 The sun was out. I was surrounded by all this 779 00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,920 beautiful foliage. And there were these orange 780 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,440 double hibiscus blooms tucked in all the spaces. 781 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,600 And I just stopped. And I looked at it and I 782 00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:34,880 thought, it's so beautiful what it is. 783 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:40,960 And I stood there and I just looked around and I put my hands 784 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,080 out with my palms up and I just closed my eyes. 785 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:49,360 And I took a deep breath. And I said to myself, just 786 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,760 you're living in this beautiful world, let's just keep trying to 787 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:59,920 make it beautiful. I like your thinking and I don't 788 00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:02,680 want us to be out of time, but that's my ringtone. 789 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,080 I used the Joey Ramone version of it. 790 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,320 But it's it's a wonderful world because it is. 791 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,120 And I love that you spoke about joy and connecting and accepting 792 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:18,160 and community because those are such huge messages that everyone 793 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,640 can benefit from. Acceptance Authenticity. 794 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,160 You know, but. It's true, but it's true the 795 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,600 more we can truly become who we are ourselves and accept whoever 796 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,360 we are, whatever we've been dealt, how we see the world and 797 00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:38,200 accept it in ourselves first. It makes life in general, yeah, 798 00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:40,720 better and easier and a little less complicated it. 799 00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:42,800 Brings us great gifts. Yeah, yeah. 800 00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,080 Ray, thank you so much for joining me. 801 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,080 This was a wonderful episode, and I always hate when it's time 802 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,200 to say goodbye. But we have to wrap up. 803 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,680 Of course. It's a rap, as they say. 804 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,720 Rap, you know, Click, get the. Well, thank you. 805 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,160 Thank you, thank you. It's been such a pleasure. 806 00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:03,960 I'm Diane Griselle. This has been the Silver 807 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,120 Disobedience Perception Dynamics podcast. 808 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:10,400 We've been recording at iconic Manhattan Center where lots of 809 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,880 great things happen and including this interview with 810 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,760 Ray De Forest, also known as Doris Dear. 811 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,560 So you're going to have to follow him. 812 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,840 There'll be all kinds of links so you can get in touch because 813 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,320 he's a treasure and worth staying in touch with. 814 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:30,640 So please subscribe, share this episode with your friends and 815 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,320 thank you again, Ray. Thank you. 816 00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:35,840 Thanks everyone, see you soon.