1 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:13,920 Hello, welcome to the Decipher podcast. 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:15,840 I'm here with my great friend Wendy Neither. 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,120 And we're here to talk about a little movie called The Martian, 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:22,400 one of my favorites. And I know it's one of yours 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,040 too, Wendy. Yeah, absolutely. 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:30,760 And you know, we're not talking about the the TV series The 7 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,960 Martian from way before that, starring the one and only Mr. 8 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,400 Hand. No, this is the 2015 movie based 9 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,640 on the book by Andy Weir. That's right. 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,120 Yes, we're no, not my favorite Martian. 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,720 Not any other Martians. The Martian, right. 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,760 Exactly, based on, as you said, Wendy, based on like one of the 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,280 best books I, I've read in a long time. 14 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,240 I, we were talking before we started recording. 15 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,840 I read the book after I saw the movie 'cause I, I guess the book 16 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,160 was kind of a phenomenon, like right around, like it was 17 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,520 published as a serial, which is kind of a cool thing. 18 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,960 He was publishing chapters as he wrote them then. 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,200 Yeah. So he was publishing the 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:22,400 chapters on his blog and kind of, I don't know what the time 21 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,760 frame was, but just kind of sporadically writing because he 22 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,440 had a day job. He's a software developer. 23 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,240 So he was just writing when he could and publishing chapters. 24 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,920 And eventually somebody, he, he collected it all and published 25 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,920 it I think as like a Amazon Kindle ebook. 26 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:43,000 And then very quickly a publisher got in touch and said, 27 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,040 hey, this is great, let's get you a publishing deal. 28 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,160 And then he got a movie deal like within a week, some, you 29 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,040 know, some of the option the the right. 30 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,800 So that is not how that usually works. 31 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,800 Yeah, yeah. At all, you know, so I know 32 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,880 you've read the book. Yes, yeah, read it several 33 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,560 times. I am trying to remember. 34 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:09,919 No, I I read the book before I saw the movie, and I just 35 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,400 watched it again this week with my oldest. 36 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,600 Yeah, yeah. We revisited everything we 37 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,120 enjoyed so much. It's so great. 38 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:23,160 I mean, the having seen the movie before I read the book, 39 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,360 you kind of you do the thing where you're just comparing the 40 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,920 two and you do that if you read the book beforehand too. 41 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:32,040 But based on like the behind the scenes stuff I've seen and, and 42 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,320 everything I've read about it, it looks like they just took his 43 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,640 book and put it into screenplay form and that and shot it. 44 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,880 You know, there was not a lot of changes from the book itself. 45 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,440 You know, the story obviously is, is all right there. 46 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,720 I think there's some minor character changes and things 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,120 like that. But mostly it's just you wrote a 48 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,760 great story. We're just going to go shoot it. 49 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,920 Yeah. And I think due to the the 50 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:59,760 layers of technical detail in there, you, you really can't 51 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,960 mess with that without, you know, having a lot of complaints 52 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,960 from the technically accurate people. 53 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,920 It's so true. Scientists will absolutely be 54 00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:14,320 the first ones to yes shake a fist a lot like security people. 55 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,240 If you get something wrong, they'd love to tell you about 56 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,840 it. We both know that I, I know it 57 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:23,480 very well. So we both grew up at a time 58 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,280 when the US had a functioning space program, which was really 59 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,240 cool. It was, you're a couple years 60 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:35,360 older than I am, but I remember, you know, the late 70s, early 61 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,680 80s, you know, the 80s was kind of the space shuttle era. 62 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,280 You know, we were launching space shuttles every other year. 63 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,800 It seemed like actually kind of every year for a while. 64 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,240 And I remember it really well. It was like one of the defining 65 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,480 kind of features of American culture at the time. 66 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,200 You know, the space program, like the moon landing was very 67 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,800 much a recent memory, you know, 1969. 68 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,680 So like late 70s, early 80s, people were like, sure, I 69 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,680 remember that. And, you know, this is just what 70 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,560 we do. We go and do cool shit in space 71 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,000 and we don't, I mean, we still do some cool space stuff, but 72 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,760 it's not like this, you know, this is, this is a, a kind of a 73 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,839 little bit of a fantasy of like we've already put people on 74 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,360 Mars. They're, you know, working 75 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,240 really hard doing cool science stuff. 76 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,960 And it doesn't look like we're doing that, we're doing that 77 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,880 anytime soon. Yeah, Yeah, it's true. 78 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,960 And, you know, reading all of the commentary on no, nobody's 79 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,600 going to live on on Mars because of the radiation or, you know, 80 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,480 they're not going to be able to travel there or, you know, all, 81 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,320 all the different reasons why it won't work. 82 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,120 And I'm kind of like, you know, just let me have my fantasy for 83 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:51,440 a minute. I. 84 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,560 Completely agree. If you look at like the 85 00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:01,760 compressed time frame of when the first, you know, unmanned 86 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,120 spacecraft went up, then manned spacecraft and then we, you 87 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,320 know, the US landed on the moon. It was not a long, you know, the 88 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,200 Russians put somebody in space and then like within 10 years we 89 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,680 had a man on the moon like that. We we used to do things in this 90 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,640 world. Yeah, well, you know, we we had 91 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:26,480 somebody to race, so we did. And it was kind of the Age of 92 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:31,520 heroes, you know, all of the, the, the test pilots, the the 93 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:36,560 crazy, crazy ones who pushed the envelope all all over the place, 94 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,880 the ones with the right stuff. If you read that book and they 95 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,840 just, you know, pivoted and went into spaceflight. 96 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:48,600 And, you know, we were ready to to watch them have those 97 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,360 adventures too. I remember when for the moon 98 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:57,480 landing, my dad went out and got our very first color TV and, you 99 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:58,960 know, so he set it up in the living room. 100 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,160 We were so excited and what do you know, the signal from the 101 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:07,200 moon was in black and white. Thanks Dad, but. 102 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,880 Yeah. That's awesome. 103 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:11,520 I love that story. That's so good. 104 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,760 We I think we've talked about this before, both of our fathers 105 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,200 or scientists. I know your dad is like quite a 106 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:23,080 noted figure. If people don't know, I'll give. 107 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,720 I'm more than happy to give you a chance to brag about your dad 108 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,600 if you want to. But my dad was a physicist as 109 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,720 well and did all kinds of cool stuff that I've talked a little 110 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,840 bit about. But tell the people a little bit 111 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:37,400 about like, your dad's background and how much of a 112 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,280 part of your your life that science was. 113 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,720 Oh boy. Well my dad served in World War 114 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,000 2. I think he kind of lied about 115 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,200 his age to do it, but he did it. And then he came home and went 116 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,920 back to college and, and he got ABA in English. 117 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:03,000 And then he was, he was hired as a nuclear physicist at a nuclear 118 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,560 facility 'cause, you know, that there was no certification for 119 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:11,000 stuff like that back then. So he did that like, you know, 120 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:17,200 memorizing and calculating using Enrico Fermi's equations in his 121 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,440 head in the middle of the night and, and stuff like that. 122 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:27,480 He went and then he invented some some testing equipment. 123 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,040 He wrote one of the first Fortran compilers and then he 124 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,320 decided to become an astronomer. So he did that for the rest of 125 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,480 his career. And so with him as an example, 126 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,600 you know, he never gave me a hard time about, well, I don't 127 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,800 know what I want to do. I think I'll just go try this. 128 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,440 Yeah, and it's such a great, I mean, that's a great lesson for 129 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,080 anybody. But that kind of art that you 130 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,200 just described of like, yeah, I went to college, I studied 131 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,320 English. But like, there's lots of cool 132 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,960 stuff happening in over here in this science world that I'm 133 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:02,480 interested in. And as you said, like that was 134 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,080 at the beginning of the nuclear age where like we didn't have 135 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,120 nuclear physicists, like we we didn't have a whole, you know, 136 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,720 cohort of trained people doing this stuff. 137 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,400 So you could just like raise your hand and be like, I want 138 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,840 to, can I do that? Like I'm smart. 139 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,480 Let me give, let me give it a shot. 140 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,120 Which is really cool. I mean, that's it's very close 141 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,040 to like my dad's kind of art too. 142 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,360 Like he was, he studied physics in college, but then went into 143 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:33,480 the army and was stationed in Huntsville, AL for a while. 144 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,679 And his time there overlapped with Wernher von Braun and that 145 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,720 whole cohort of German scientists who had we had 146 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,880 brought over after World War 2. And I don't think he worked 147 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,240 directly with von Braun, but he was there at the same time 148 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,160 working on different projects, worked on ballistic missile 149 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:56,440 defense and stuff tangentially related to the space program. 150 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,520 But this stuff was such a huge part of my childhood. 151 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,000 Just knowing that like there were people that, you know, like 152 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,360 my dad and people he worked with that were doing this kind of 153 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,800 work, you know, it was like, yeah, they were super cool. 154 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,000 But it wasn't like, you know, pie in the sky. 155 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,720 Like this stuff. It, it was like realistic work. 156 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:16,600 You know, we were just going and doing this stuff. 157 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,280 Yeah, yeah. And everybody, everybody knew, 158 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,280 you know, when they were working those fields, you know, they, 159 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,560 they knew all the players. Everybody knew each other. 160 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:28,600 Wasn't that a community back then? 161 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,920 Very true. The other thing that was a big 162 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,120 part of, I think both of our childhoods was movies about 163 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,800 space. You know, this is kind of that 164 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,400 arrow, you know, seventies, 80s, when it seemed like just about 165 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,520 80% of the movies that were in the theaters at all times were 166 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,040 some kind of space epic or science fiction. 167 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,200 Movie. Yeah, it's true. 168 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,440 Now, I was, I did one of these podcasts a couple weeks ago with 169 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,240 Wade Baker and Rich Mogul about Star Wars and, you know, 170 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,000 obviously a Seminole movie for a lot of people of our generation. 171 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,960 But there were just so many of these in the 80s and then we 172 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,120 kind of stopped doing that. But The Martian, which came out 173 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,520 I think 11 years ago now, like 2015. 174 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,440 Yeah, kind of brought it back in a big way because it was. 175 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,040 Yeah, it's a it's a space movie and there's a lot of science, 176 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:27,080 science and a small bit of science fiction involved, but 177 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:32,080 it's also just a very human story of this guy is in a really 178 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,480 bad situation and he's got to figure it out, you know, he's. 179 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,440 Got to science the shit out of it. 180 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,680 That's exactly right. Now the epitome of a hacker if 181 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,160 if ever there was 1. That's right. 182 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,840 That's exactly why I wanted to do this movie, because it's the 183 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:51,520 whole entire encapsulation of the hacker mindset of like, I've 184 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,000 got a thorny problem in in front of me, or maybe a series of 185 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,360 them, and I have to figure this out on my own. 186 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,920 I might get a little bit of help from the outside at some point, 187 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,120 but I've got to take these tools that I have at my disposal, 188 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:06,680 figure out how to repurpose them and solve this series of 189 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:09,960 problems so that I don't die in one of them any number of 190 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:15,080 horrible ways up here, you know? Scooging things together and I 191 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,240 love that. It's realistic in that, yeah, 192 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,880 things do go wrong and, you know, he forgot to carry the one 193 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,720 or he forgot the oxygen that he was exhaling and forgot to put 194 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,200 that in his calculation. So he had, you know, an off by 1 195 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,640 error that could have killed it. Very true. 196 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,880 Things were in there too. Yeah, there's there's a couple 197 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,760 of great scenes, the one you just described where he kind of 198 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,040 figures out Matt Damon's character, Mark Watt, and he 199 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:50,840 figures out how he can create water, you know, through this 200 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,440 whole, you know, science experiment of burning hydrogen 201 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:59,080 and oxygen and, and all of this. But then he blows himself up as 202 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,560 soon as he starts to do that because he forgot to account for 203 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:07,600 the oxygen that he was exhaling. And before that, there's the 204 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,200 scene right when he sort of gets back to the spacecraft after 205 00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:15,680 things have gone all the hell at the beginning and his crews left 206 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:19,720 him behind where he's, I think it's the first time he's talking 207 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,120 into the camera and he's saying. Yeah, he's back in the Hab. 208 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,280 Yeah, exactly. And he says, you know, I have to 209 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,280 figure out how not to die of hunger, how not to die of 210 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,200 thirst, how not to suffocate. And if all of that goes exactly 211 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,560 right, then maybe they'll come and get me in four years or 212 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,560 whatever the time frame is, you know, So I have to figure out 213 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:43,160 how to grow enough food and create water and all this kind 214 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:44,560 of stuff. And you just see him with this 215 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,640 dead eyed 1000 yards staring to the camera of like, I don't 216 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,240 really know how to do all that. You know, and this is before you 217 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,320 know what his specialty is or you know how dumb or smart he 218 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:57,400 is. You assume he's smart because 219 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,920 he's an astronaut, but we don't know what his science background 220 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,560 is at that point or anything. He's just like, here's a bunch 221 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:05,240 of problems. I'm going to try not to die up 222 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,200 here alone. And we keep hearing over and 223 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,680 over again, You know, this reminds me so much of Apollo 13, 224 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,240 which was also a great example of clujing things together to, 225 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,920 you know, during an emergency. And I kept hearing in both 226 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,320 movies over and over again, work the problem. 227 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,200 Let's work the problem. And you can tell that when he 228 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,400 sits down, that's the first thing he's going to do. 229 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,600 And you know you work one problem and then you work the 230 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,680 next one, and then you work the next one. 231 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,720 Yeah. And they bring it back really 232 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,840 well at the end of the movie in that scene at the astronaut 233 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,760 training center where he he says that in his opening statement to 234 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,280 these, you know, candidate astronauts of like, yes, you're 235 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,200 going to be up there and everything's going to go to 236 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,240 hell. And you have to, you have to 237 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,080 look at it the way you just described, Wendy. 238 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,000 You find a problem, you work that problem. 239 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,840 And if you solve enough of those problems, you get to come home. 240 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,320 Then. Then you're a skeleton on Mars. 241 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,560 But yeah, you're exactly right about the Apollo 13 thing, too. 242 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:15,120 I watched that, you know, within the last month as well. 243 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:21,520 And the very famous scene right when things go to hell on that 244 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,760 flight. And Tom Hanks says, you know, 245 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,240 Houston, we've had a problem. And one of them I, I think it's 246 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,080 Bill Paxton's problem or character sort of like freaks 247 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,400 out a little bit. And, you know, Tom Hanks says, 248 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,200 calm down. Let's let's start working the 249 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,920 problem because otherwise we're going to die right now. 250 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,960 You know, and it that kind of level headed logical thinking is 251 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,480 you have that. I don't really have it as much 252 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,200 as as I would. I would die very quickly in 253 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,560 space. I'm sure I would too, but 254 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,160 there's another parallel between Apollo 13 and The Martian that I 255 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,000 just love. There's a call back in The 256 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,960 Martian to actually, but you know the the line about Rich 257 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,800 Pernell being a steely eyed missile man. 258 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,440 And that was actually a quote about a gentleman named John 259 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:18,200 Aaron who first saved Apollo 12's bacon by because he read 260 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,040 everything. He read all the documentation. 261 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:26,640 And so he as soon as you know something that they were hit by 262 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,040 lightning and they lost telemetry, he figured out 263 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,560 immediately, you know, how to how to fix that. 264 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,280 That's what earned in the moniker because he was so cool 265 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,160 working the problem. He was a steely eyed missile 266 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,400 man. And then he did it again for 267 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:48,400 Apollo 13, helping them figure out how to how to kluge that 268 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,320 stuff together. So I loved seeing and I got to 269 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,360 explain it to my oldest. That steely eyed missile man 270 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,840 line is real, and it's referring to a real person. 271 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,400 Yeah, I love that, too. The first time I saw this movie 272 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,080 was actually with my kids and my wife. 273 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,240 We watched it maybe whenever it came out on cable or HBO or 274 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,840 something, you know, maybe a year after it had come out in 275 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,120 the theater. My kids were, I don't know, 276 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,400 probably in like middle school and high school at the time. 277 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,680 And the same thing that that line, like rung a bell in my 278 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,200 head. I was like, why do I know what 279 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,360 that line is? And I had to quickly look it up 280 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,240 and I explained it to them. They're like, oh, that's really 281 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,480 cool that they like incorporate. There's a few other things in 282 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,240 this movie too that they brought in from real life and, you know, 283 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:37,280 kind of real astronauts experience, you know, with the 284 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,880 Apollo missions and things like that. 285 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,720 But yeah, I love that as well. There's just those little 286 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,120 callbacks and that's, you know, that's a testament to Andy 287 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,400 Weir's writing. And also just like the the power 288 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,360 of that kind of storytelling, you know that you can you can 289 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,040 have those callbacks that really like ring true in a in a film 290 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,360 like this. And he was having fun with it. 291 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,880 You could tell. I mean, the you know, that they 292 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:05,800 managed to fit a good amount of snark in into the movie, even 293 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,960 though you couldn't read all get all of the interior monologue 294 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,960 that was in the book. But you, you know, you got a lot 295 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:18,319 and it kept it from being one of the, you know, a terrible scary 296 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:21,400 drama, you know, with two-dimensional heroes and 297 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,440 everything. I, I suspect we both just 298 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:30,400 identified so much with both with Mark Watney and I, I 299 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:37,920 identified a lot with Commander Lewis, you know, being 300 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,360 responsible for the team and taking everything on herself. 301 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,440 And then, you know, people at NASA and all of the politics 302 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,400 about do we tell them? Do we not tell them? 303 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:56,800 Do we go behind his back? That's it feels so much like 304 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,080 things that we do every day in security. 305 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,480 It's so true. Yeah. 306 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,200 There's the tension. There's, you know, probably 3 307 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,880 different sources of tension in this movie. 308 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,920 There's is Mark Watney going to die on this planet? 309 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,920 You know, the first time you're watching this, you, you don't 310 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,960 totally know, you assume they're not going to kill Matt Damon on 311 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,560 Mars. So you're probably pretty sure 312 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:23,400 he's going to survive. But there's also the tension of 313 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,440 all the people on the ground at NASA, at JPL trying to figure it 314 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,880 all out, but also the internal bickering of like, you know, a 315 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,280 little bit of a power struggle between Sean Bean's character 316 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,240 and Jeff Daniels character. You know, that kind of, you 317 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,520 know, is the central tension there. 318 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,720 And you know, Sean Bean didn't even die once in this movie. 319 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:49,400 Not even once. Which is rare for him. 320 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,320 He almost in almost every other thing he's in, he gets killed in 321 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,080 some terrible way and. Early on. 322 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,000 Early on, it's also one of the rare movies where he's playing a 323 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,400 present day person and not someone in Game of Thrones or 324 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,240 Lord of the Rings or, you know, Odysseus or something like that, 325 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,960 you know, But yeah, there's, there's all those different 326 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,360 sources of narrative tension in this in this movie. 327 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:19,480 And I sometimes I find myself I'm like, all right, enough with 328 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,320 the like NASA shit on the ground. 329 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,400 Can we get back to Watney doing science on Mars? 330 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,240 But then there's so many good scenes with, you know, Donald 331 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,960 Glover's character, Rich Parnell, who I really wanted 332 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,880 more of. He's so good. 333 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:38,920 He's so funny and just like, absolutely mirrors probably 20 334 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,400 people that we both know that are absolute geniuses and have 335 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,760 like 0 respect for authority and are just like, look, I, I 336 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,960 already solved your problem. What are you guys arguing about? 337 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,920 Like I already figured this out. Like, what are we all doing 338 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,360 here? Let's go do this. 339 00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:58,960 Like the scene that I think they call the Council of Elrond 340 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,600 where, you know, just a great one. 341 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,280 With Project Elrond, yeah. Yes, yes, that's it. 342 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,480 That has, you know, Jeff Daniels, the NASA director, 343 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:13,880 Donald Glover's character, Kristen Wiig's character. 344 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:21,480 And don't forget him. And Sean Bean and yes, Vincent 345 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:26,360 Koor, all in this in the conference room and trying to 346 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:30,040 figure out if there's a way for them to get him back more 347 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,200 quickly. And, you know, Rich Bernal just 348 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,280 stands up and, you know, starts moving people around the room to 349 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:37,960 demonstrate the slingshot maneuver. 350 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,200 And he says to Jeff Daniels, what's your name again? 351 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,280 He's like, so and so I'm the director of NASA and he's like. 352 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,480 Oh cool. Cool, yeah, let me get your pen 353 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,720 stand over there. You're the moon or something 354 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,200 like that. You know, just the offhanded, 355 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,560 you know, kind of brilliance that those people have. 356 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,840 Like that's a, it's a great portrayal cause those people are 357 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,880 absolutely real. And and it cracks me up, 358 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:07,720 especially when they got to the part of it it mid politics. 359 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,880 Teddy Sanders says, you know, and you're just doing this 360 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,080 because Vincent Kapoor isn't here. 361 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,080 He's over at JPL. But I said, you know, in the 362 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,480 last scene you just showed a Cisco Webex video. 363 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:26,360 Why can't you just get on the video that that was 1 bobble 364 00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:29,840 that I I had a problem with but you know I I noticed whenever 365 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,560 the Cisco logos on something. I yes, that was a little jarring 366 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,360 to me, too. I had forgotten about that. 367 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,240 But it shows up quite a bit in this movie. 368 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,120 Yeah. But they they do such a nice job 369 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:49,760 of portraying everybody as a as a fallible human, Even the 370 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,320 smartest people in the story, they're all, you know, brilliant 371 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,200 to some degree as having real human faults. 372 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,800 You know, Jeff Daniels character has to worry about the sort of 373 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,840 public facing politics of all of this. 374 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,920 When do we tell the public that he's still alive? 375 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,200 When do we could tell the crew that he's still alive? 376 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,960 You know, Sean Bean is worried about that kind of stuff too. 377 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,280 And everybody's got these kind of internal problems they're 378 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,360 struggling with, along with Commander Lewis, Jessica 379 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:24,880 Chastain's character who you mentioned, who kind of takes it 380 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,000 all on herself for leaving him behind because, you know, 381 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,240 ultimately it was her, you know, order to the rest of the. 382 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,280 Yeah, right. You know, they were just 383 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,400 following her, her directive, which, you know, is a way that 384 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,880 good leaders think. But it's also, you know, those 385 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,040 other astronauts, of course, feel some guilt for that as 386 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,000 well. Yeah. 387 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,080 And it kind of illustrates for me the the difference that gets 388 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,360 discussed between intention, intention and impact. 389 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:57,960 And you can see this going through her head, like, 390 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,360 obviously she didn't intend to leave him behind, but that was 391 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:04,680 the impact, that was the result. And. 392 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,480 What was the outcome? On that and you, you have to 393 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,920 keep going. Right. 394 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:16,280 And the a worse version of this movie go dives deep into like, 395 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,720 the psychological impact on all those astronauts and how, you 396 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,440 know, they show her just like with her head in her hands, 397 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,920 staring out the window into space on the space station for, 398 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,480 you know, minutes at a time. But, you know, you get a little 399 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,400 flash of her. You know, there's the scene of 400 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,400 her them all realizing that he's still alive. 401 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,160 And then they get on with it. They're like, OK, what are we 402 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,920 going to do about it? Like, are we turning around to 403 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,720 go get him? Yes, they. 404 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,080 Take a minute to process and then they're like, OK, our 405 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,000 minutes over, now let's get back to work. 406 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,720 Let's work the problem. Right. 407 00:23:53,800 --> 00:24:00,160 It's a very, you know, logical, you know, almost ruthless 408 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,400 mindset of like, OK, there's only two outcomes here. 409 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,760 Either we go get him or he dies in some terrible fashion that we 410 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,520 can all imagine and we've all trained for, you know, so I 411 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,800 don't remember whose character it was, but somebody was like, 412 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,200 it's not even we're going like we got to go, you know, whether 413 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,840 it's right now or we figure out this other plan that NASA has. 414 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,720 But they do a really nice job with that. 415 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,120 They show the human impacts, but they don't just dwell on it like 416 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:31,680 it. You kind of get the point. 417 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:35,480 Yeah, Yeah. It's it's very business like and 418 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:41,040 I'd I'd just like to point out how many Marvel Cinematic 419 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,760 Universe actors are in this movie together. 420 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:46,760 You have Benedict Wong, who I love. 421 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:52,680 You've got Sebastian Stan also. You've got she wait till age of 422 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:59,600 four and and you've got. Matt Damon's in some Marvel 423 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,920 movies. Yes, that's right. 424 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,760 That's right. He has a couple of couple of 425 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:11,360 cameos in the in the thorough movies and yeah, just just 426 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,440 watching all of that and going, wow, you know how many of them 427 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,200 have worked together in Hollywood and then they're just 428 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,720 all, you know, penned up together doing this movie. 429 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,040 It's I wrote down in my notes watching this, I've seen this 430 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,800 movie probably like 15 times all the way through and fragments of 431 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:35,240 it dozens and dozens of times. But in my notes, I wrote down 432 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,320 that this is probably the best looking astronaut crew that's 433 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,640 ever been assembled in human history. 434 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,760 They're so glamorous, you're right. 435 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,120 God, there's a, you know, they cut to like, Jessica Chastain 436 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:56,360 and Kate Mara and, yeah, Sebastian Stan and Michael Pena, 437 00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,840 all these people you're like. Oh yeah, Michael Pena. 438 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,160 He was also Marvel, Yeah. Right Ant Man and the wasp. 439 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,400 Just like these are the best looking people on earth and just 440 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,160 have them all in the space station. 441 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:10,040 What are the odds? Right, Yes. 442 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,320 I mean, I've seen what astronauts look like. 443 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,520 They don't typically look like those people. 444 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,400 Oh, another thing that that my dad did was for a little while 445 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:25,040 he was teaching astronomy to the NASA astronauts during their 446 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,760 training. Oh, just a little while. 447 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,040 Just just a little while. And then he he actually got 448 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,480 annoyed with the NASA bureaucracy and stopped doing 449 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,360 stuff for them. I don't think that's unusual. 450 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:41,640 I mean it, you know, bureaucracies, I don't know what 451 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,920 year that was, but, you know, government bureaucracies 452 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,800 multiply. And, you know, they, they've 453 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,120 been known to drive out a few brilliant minds in their time. 454 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,560 Yeah. How, how often do you think that 455 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,920 happens in in cybersecurity? I mean, we certainly know a few 456 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,640 people it's happened to for sure. 457 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,680 I think it happens relatively relatively often in the 458 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,720 government world. I'm not sure in the corporate 459 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,000 world that we live in, and I think it happens pretty often, 460 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:21,280 especially if you're 1 of, you know, kind of the independent 461 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:28,000 minder minded hacker persona of like, I do this one thing. 462 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,400 I do it really well, let me go do that thing. 463 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,600 And then they start putting you into six hours of meetings every 464 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,600 day and you can't do that thing that you're good at. 465 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,160 Incredibly frustrating, you know, and I've been in that 466 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,720 position. You've been in that position. 467 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,400 A lot of our friends have. And I I think that's a really 468 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,760 good question, Wendy. It's, it's a good parallel. 469 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,000 Yeah. It's it. 470 00:27:53,280 --> 00:28:00,480 Yeah, the if you think about not just corporate cybersecurity, 471 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,160 but also what SIS is going through right now, Sure pointed 472 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,480 out that those people are still working the problems even though 473 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,520 they're not getting paid. Yeah, and you know, in some ways 474 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,120 are kind of under hostile. Hostile fire. 475 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,000 Yeah, from their own administration. 476 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:24,880 And in some cases, yeah, it's funny 'cause I'm, I, I watched 477 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,600 this movie a couple times over the weekend. 478 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,000 And I'm also rereading The Cuckoo's Egg by Cliff Stoll 479 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,560 right now just for, I don't really know why I, I kind of run 480 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,200 out of things to, to read. And I was like, you know what, I 481 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,120 haven't read this in a few years. 482 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,120 I'm going to pick it back up. And there's so many parallels in 483 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,000 there too, like the astronomy part of it for people that 484 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,960 haven't read that book. I mean, he was a PhD astronomer 485 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,760 and astrophysicist who got, you know, essentially shuffled off 486 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,480 to a computer lab for funding reasons and wound up in this, 487 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,920 you know, insane cyber, cyber espionage story. 488 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,600 But kind of the same thing of like, here's the $0.75 489 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,320 accounting error. What caused that? 490 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,640 We know every. Now I got to know. 491 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,120 I got to figure this out. Does it matter? 492 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,680 It was like, you know, pennies off. 493 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,440 But it doesn't make sense to me. Therefore I need to investigate. 494 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,440 Right. I'm going to sleep on the floor 495 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,960 of this computer lab literally for like weeks at a time until I 496 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,760 figure this out. And even when he did, like 497 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,960 people didn't believe him. And you know, that the whole 498 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,480 thing, the FBI was like, we don't, we don't care. 499 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,320 And $0.75, we don't. It's not our problem. 500 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,520 But yeah, it's the same. It's the same idea of like 501 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:46,280 persistence and just problem solving that, you know, it was 502 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,840 required for people in our field. 503 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,120 And it's, that's why this, I think this movie, you know, 504 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,480 becomes more and more resonant for me every time I every time I 505 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,200 go back to it. Yeah, it reminds me of a lot of 506 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,840 situations that we find ourselves in where we go, wow, 507 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,560 that just happened. OK, now what do we do? 508 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,440 Because, you know, who knew that that that that thing was going 509 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,960 to happen? There's new stuff every day. 510 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,120 And it's like, really? Yeah, that that just happened. 511 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,360 Really. So much of that, yeah, I, I 512 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,200 mean, I hate talking about AI, but I think that's a pretty good 513 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,480 example right now. Like that kind of just happened 514 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,880 in an 18 month span and now everybody's trying to figure out 515 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,880 what the hell to do about it. Like how do we secure these 516 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,400 agents? How do we, I mean, there's a 517 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,680 whole rabbit hole we could go down there, but that's the most 518 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,120 current example that, you know, I could come up with of like 519 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,320 this is a disruptive force that's making people rethink the 520 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,920 way that they, you know, protect their networks and do their jobs 521 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,320 in a lot of cases. And that all sorts of things 522 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:02,720 that we run into like cascading failures, you know, dependencies 523 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,680 that are not mapped, there's no way to map all of them. 524 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,160 And so one of them just makes itself known. 525 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,160 And 1000, you know, 1000 organizations go down because of 526 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,320 that one dependency. So there's so many things that 527 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,120 in hindsight you might have been able to predict, but who has 528 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,720 time for that? Yeah, that's the. 529 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,480 I have cascading failures written in my notes, too, just 530 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,080 in all block letters. Yeah, of course, because it's 531 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,160 just sort of in the behind the scenes thing that I watched. 532 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,480 There was a little short interview with Andy Weir, the 533 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,040 author, who said that the original idea for this book came 534 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:38,400 to him. He was just trying to. 535 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,840 He was at his day, day job thinking about like, I wonder if 536 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,000 he'll ever put somebody on Mars, you know? 537 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,640 And then he started thinking about how we would get there. 538 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,600 Like, we, we had sent probes at this time, like, how would 539 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,800 people live there? And then what if they ran out of 540 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,400 water or food or oxygen? And then he thought, well, why 541 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,200 don't I just give all of those problems to 1 character? 542 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,960 And. And see what happens. 543 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,800 And that's how you get Mark Watney just, you know, getting 544 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,280 kicked in the literally punctured in the stomach and, 545 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,160 you know, blowing himself up and. 546 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,240 Mark Watney, Full stack astronaut. 547 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,000 Right and crash test dummy and crash test. 548 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,000 Dummy, you know, another thing that I really appreciate about 549 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,960 it is, you know, not just the the different forms of narrative 550 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,440 tension and everything, but Matt Damon was really did a good job. 551 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,480 He was able to convey so much with just breathing because you 552 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,680 heard so much of him just breathing inside the suit and. 553 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,960 There's so much of that. I mean, this movie fails 554 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,080 miserably if if they don't have Damon, in my in my opinion. 555 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,400 I mean, I'm sure there's other people that could have done it, 556 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,360 but he's, he's got that perfect mix of you take him seriously as 557 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,560 an actor, but he can be funny too, obviously, you know, And 558 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,480 he, he's acting against a green screen almost the entire movie, 559 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,600 you know, aside from the very beginning and the very end. 560 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:14,480 It's him talking into a GoPro or acting against, you know, a AVFX 561 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,360 backdrop. And he's got to convey a lot. 562 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,840 Yeah. With just facial expressions or 563 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,040 grunts or Yeah, like how rapid his breathing is in the 564 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,160 spacesuit, or just like exasperated gestures or. 565 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,080 Yeah, annoying breathing. There's, you know, there's 566 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,640 desperate breathing, there's painful breathing. 567 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,600 You know, you could just sit there and and take notes of all 568 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,600 of the different ways in which he conveys what's going on. 569 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,440 It's so true. Yeah. 570 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:50,480 It's any little piece of this movie, like, like, they almost 571 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,440 didn't get Ridley Scott because he had a scheduling conflict and 572 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,280 it was going to be directed by Drew Goddard, who was the 573 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,440 screenwriter, but he went off to do some other movie. 574 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,160 So they shifted the schedule and got Ridley Scott, which worked 575 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,200 out great. And as soon as that happened, 576 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,320 Matt Damon said, oh, you got Ridley Scott. 577 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,280 I'm in. So you got, you got, you know, 578 00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:15,920 Ridley Scott and Matt Damon, you're 85% of the way to a hit, 579 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:20,400 you know, especially in 2015, just at the top of their game. 580 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,920 Yeah. Don't don't say they peaked in 581 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,000 2015 and. Absolutely not. 582 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,159 Their feelings. Nope, at the top of their game. 583 00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:32,400 I didn't say they came down. They're just they're up there. 584 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,920 I wanted to. The thing that cracks me, 585 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,800 there's a few like extremely funny scenes in this to me, and 586 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:45,520 one of the nerdiest funny ones is when he's trying like he's 587 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,920 got the camera, he's figured out Pathfinder, he's dug it up and 588 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,520 he's trying to figure out how he's going to communicate with 589 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,239 NASA on the ground instead of these yes, no questions with the 590 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,400 camera. And he lands on hexadecimal and 591 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,280 ASCII and you know, he goes digging through the other 592 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,080 astronauts things and he's like, I knew one of you nerds would 593 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,120 have an ASCII table laying around which you know. 594 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,000 And there it. Is there? 595 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,520 It is yes. And I thought to myself, I was 596 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,880 like, OK, there was a time in my life where I basically 597 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,840 understood ASCII. That time is long past now. 598 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,840 I went and looked it up. I was like, oh God, this is 599 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:29,800 giving me PTSD, but the the fact that like he knows that this is 600 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,960 going to work, but he asked to even the people on the ground 601 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,920 are like they're they're looking at a table too. 602 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,280 They don't know. I don't know that anybody just. 603 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,680 I know somebody I knew somebody who used to work at at Bellcore 604 00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:46,360 who did have it memorized. Oh my God, of course you do. 605 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,200 Dictate things and has hexadecimal. 606 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,200 Of course I would have to look it up, but. 607 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,160 I think any normal person would have to look it up. 608 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,120 Even. Even scientists and astronauts, 609 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:02,880 of course, but the idea that they land on that, which is a 610 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:08,000 really elegant solution to a very thorny problem because they 611 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:14,360 have the the ground control guy who's in that conversation with 612 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,120 Vincent Kapoor, who's like, well, all you can do is point 613 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,360 the camera at yes or no. This isn't exactly going to be 614 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,480 the Algonquin roundtable discussion. 615 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,720 And Vincent Kapoor's like, are you kidding me? 616 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,080 Just do it. You know, he's like, figure this 617 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,760 out. So they kind of land on that. 618 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,640 And Matt Damon's the one that, you know, Watney figured it out, 619 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,360 not the people on the ground. He's like, I got it, Hexadecimal 620 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,120 while he's eating his five thousandth potato. 621 00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:44,880 Yeah, while. He yeah, it's his 500th potato 622 00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:49,680 and, and, and while he runs out of ketchup and he dips one in 623 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,080 crushed Vicodin. So it's 'cause there's nobody 624 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,600 who can stop me. It's so funny, I watched the 625 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,760 extended cut, which you can rent on Amazon right now and it's, 626 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,440 there's, I don't know, maybe about 8 or 10 extra minutes. 627 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,480 And there's no big like extra scenes or anything. 628 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:13,160 It's just kind of a little bit added to various scenes, you 629 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,560 know, some extra dialogue and there's some extra 1 liners and 630 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:21,360 they kind of hold that shot a little longer where he's like 631 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,200 putting the the potato in the Vicodin and he's like, I ran out 632 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,960 of ketchup like 8 days ago so and nobody can stop me. 633 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,920 It. Says the little touches like 634 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,880 that that you know that that add the humor that takes like a very 635 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,800 serious science based story and just takes it up so many 636 00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:45,120 different notches for me. Now I, I really, I, I liked it 637 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,400 when he decided, you know, and work work through it and showed 638 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,840 his work then and explained why he's a space pirate. 639 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:58,240 But I don't know if you you this may not have happened to you, 640 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,480 but I started thinking, well, why didn't they call him the 641 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,440 space cowboy of. Course I thought about. 642 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,320 That we could have called him Maurice. 643 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:12,000 And now I've had that song stuck in my head all day getting ready 644 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,840 for this podcast. I love it. 645 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,560 Andy Weir went no, that's too weird even for me. 646 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,560 Probably did, honestly. Or, I don't know, like I don't 647 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,320 remember from the book. I'm sure that some of the disco 648 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,520 jokes were in there about Commander Lewis's music. 649 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,680 I don't remember. OK, OK. 650 00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:37,040 Because that was one of the other things that I think put 651 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,480 this movie up a notch for me was the soundtrack. 652 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,960 Because like, that is not my music. 653 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,800 Like, I don't love ABBA or, you know, all that, but it fits so 654 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,200 well. Every needle drop is just such a 655 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:56,640 perfect fit for where they place it in the movie. 656 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,720 And the running joke of him just talking shit about Commander 657 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:02,720 Lewis's musical taste. And. 658 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,240 How terrible it is. It's just great, you know, it 659 00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:07,840 just adds that extra layer. Yeah, yeah. 660 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,960 Like the the scene where he's driving around in the Rover and 661 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,080 Waterloo comes on the ABBA song and they play the entire thing. 662 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,280 It's like 3 minutes of him just driving around to that song. 663 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:24,160 Yeah, just like happily sweating with that, you know, degrading 664 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,240 nuclear bomb behind him, essentially. 665 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,040 Yeah, and then him going from sweating to freezing and then 666 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:39,680 and then back again and, yeah, again, you know, playing, 667 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:47,360 playing a character who is completely isolated for almost 668 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,400 all the movie. And you can't just, you can't 669 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,320 expose some of the, you can't play some of the emotion 670 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,480 emotions by talking to people because you're not talking to 671 00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,720 anybody. He had to do it in so many 672 00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:03,320 different ways. And, you know, you, you see 673 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,080 parts where he almost loses it and then he gets back to it. 674 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,680 And then finally, when he's waiting to blast off for them to 675 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,240 catch him, that's when he finally breaks down. 676 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,760 Yeah, that's a really effective scene, you know, that that's 677 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,960 another one that could have gone badly. 678 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,440 It could have been like overly saccharine. 679 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:31,920 But just, you know, the tension of him sitting in this capsule 680 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,120 that he's taken all the roof off of and he's, you know, he knows 681 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,400 it's probably not going to go perfectly. 682 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,200 And, you know, Commander Lewis is like, we're almost there, 683 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,800 Watney, hang on one minute. And he's like, OK, can't wait to 684 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,120 see you guys. And he's crying like it's, it's 685 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,800 really great. You you can feel all the pent 686 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:51,240 up. Like, I don't remember how long 687 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:53,040 he's been there at that point, like a year and a half or 688 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,640 something like that. Yeah, what was it, 18 months? 689 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:03,240 And and also that was the this the scene where he he no longer 690 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:07,000 had control of anything. He had to wait, you know, for, 691 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,440 for his colleagues to come back and catch him. 692 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,240 The only thing he could do was hang on, whereas for the 693 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,000 previous 18 months he could keep busy working the first problem 694 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,520 and the next and the next and the next. 695 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,040 He was all done. There it was out of his hands. 696 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,360 And I, I could really feel, you know, the interiority of him 697 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,760 thinking about everything that he just lived through, 698 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,720 everything that he just survived and crying, finally letting 699 00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:37,640 himself cry because of that. That's exactly right. 700 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,760 That's a perfect. That's so well said, Wendy. 701 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,000 Because he that entire 18 months or whatever it was, he was 702 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,000 independent. Yes, he was alone, but he could 703 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,400 do whatever he wanted essentially. 704 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,760 Like, you know, he had to ask. Yeah, right. 705 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,400 Eat Vicodin for breakfast. But he had things to do. 706 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,000 He like he woke up every morning and he was like, OK, I have to 707 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,440 make water. I have to make food. 708 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,760 I have to not suffocate. I have to go do all these 709 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,920 things. And then once that was all done 710 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,680 and he was sitting in that seat, he's like, OK, well, now it's in 711 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,360 Martinez's hands. He's the one that's going to be 712 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,120 controlling this capsule remotely. 713 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:13,720 I've got to rely on these people again. 714 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,040 And they're the jerks that left me on Mars in the 1st place, you 715 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,600 know? Yeah, I could. 716 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,360 You could feel all of that kind of tension release right in that 717 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,240 moment. And it's it's a perfect 718 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:30,880 encapsulation. What a terrible pun. 719 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:35,760 But of the whole thing. You know, well done, Dennis. 720 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,240 I didn't mean to, but it just happened. 721 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:46,160 It happened. The other the other part that I 722 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,240 hadn't forgotten, but I forgot like how complex it is, is when 723 00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:51,000 they're actually have to go and retrieve him. 724 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,280 Like after he's like, you know, they blast him off and then very 725 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,520 quickly they figure out, oh, shit, he's going way too fast or 726 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,880 we're going way too fast. The relative velocity is way too 727 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,080 fast. And he's much farther away from 728 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,040 us than we thought because the trajectory was off. 729 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,080 And. Because of the tarp coming off 730 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,960 which, and you know who saw this coming? 731 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,760 A convertible spaceship. What a great idea, Spaceship. 732 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:18,040 Yeah. Yes. 733 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,480 But then really quickly, they, the space station crew 734 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,520 improvises. And Jessica Chastain says to, 735 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,320 you know, the German, I can't remember his, the character's 736 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:32,880 name is like, hey, can you build a bomb? 737 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,400 Is what we have Fogel? Yes, thank you. 738 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,560 And he's like, well, yeah. But I have to point out that 739 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,520 building a bomb on a space station is a really terrible 740 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,640 idea. I'm not sure I should do that. 741 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,120 And then they, you know, essentially. 742 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,240 And he's doing a little bit of this and a little bit. 743 00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:57,640 Of that yeah he's like easy bake oven bomb in the space station 744 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,040 with Kate Mara and then they blow off the vacuum locks so 745 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,320 that they can decelerate the space station space station is 746 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:10,440 not the right word but the craft that they're on to reduce the 747 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,880 relative velocity and distance between the two of them and then 748 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,760 Lewis goes out there and they you know even that goes badly 749 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,600 because she misses him at 1st and put reels them in with the 750 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,920 the strap but. Yeah, I mean, she, she tries to 751 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,440 grab them and, and their hands, you know, don't grab but but he 752 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,720 grabs the the tether and they manage to and, and I love, you 753 00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:36,520 know, that the physics of them as they get closer and closer to 754 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,880 each other, they're spinning faster and faster, which is what 755 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,480 is supposed to happen. Yeah, the slow motion kind of 756 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,200 reunion where they're just kind of orbiting, seeing each other 757 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:52,120 was was really well done. And, you know, the kind of end 758 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,920 of the movie where, you know, they don't spend a ton of time 759 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,320 on it. Once he gets back on the space 760 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,680 station, you know, they they're all happy for about 25 seconds 761 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,160 and then they kind of like cut to the celebration on Earth. 762 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,160 And then you know, that last scene that I mentioned with him 763 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:12,480 teaching the the astronaut class, which is a great little 764 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:17,480 coda it, you know, it, it kind of wraps it all up in a really 765 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,080 nice way. I, I think also what really got 766 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,640 me is, you know, dissolving to being on Earth. 767 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,600 And, you know, you see that they've all made it back. 768 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,360 He's just sitting there against all that green. 769 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,000 And that is such, such a huge difference. 770 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:37,720 And you know, that's all you have to say. 771 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:42,240 Right anything it's so true and he looks down at his feet and 772 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,440 there's a little tiny sprout of something coming up through the 773 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:50,720 gravel and he repeats the line it he says hey there like you 774 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,680 said to the potato I think when he. 775 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,960 Was, you know, where's potato plant? 776 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,320 Yeah yeah, poop farming on on Mars. 777 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,000 We we kind of skipped over or forgot to mention that the 778 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:08,960 entire subplot, not subplot, but but portion with the Chinese 779 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,200 space agency. Yes, that was really good too. 780 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,880 It's so well done because, and I always forget about it, it right 781 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,600 in the middle of the movie, like the resupply thing that they 782 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,800 sent that NASA sends up there just explodes 20 seconds after 783 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,240 launch. And they're kind of like, well, 784 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,480 that we're screwed. He's dead. 785 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:33,200 We're going to look like fools. And then the, you know, the 786 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:40,000 training species kind of comes to the rescue and says, well, we 787 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,880 have this technology that they don't have. 788 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:46,160 But if we help them, we're going to be declassifying this and 789 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:51,000 giving them an advantage. And the woman is like, well, we 790 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,240 kind of have to do that. We can't just let this guy die 791 00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:55,680 up there knowing we could have helped them. 792 00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,000 Yeah, and I love that the, you know, that the, the actual, the 793 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,680 director is on the same wavelength and, you know, it's a 794 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:09,280 nice warm moment where you know, they know they're going to help. 795 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,640 It's not another area of tension. 796 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,960 It's not that, you know, there's nothing stereotyped about the 797 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,400 Chinese there and oh, they're just going to mess with the 798 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,640 Americans or anything. No, they're, they're doing 799 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,760 something very human and very generous. 800 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,800 And I I love that. I did too. 801 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,840 It's really, yes, that could have gone sideways very easily. 802 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:36,480 And there's a line that Benedict Wong's character says we, I 803 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,600 think he says, thanks to my Uncle Tommy, we get an extra 804 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,600 chance at this. And I remember the first time I 805 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,440 watched this thinking that can't be his actual uncle, right? 806 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,880 And he he was being, you know, facetious. 807 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,080 But I was like, that's a little too convenient if the director 808 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,000 of the Chinese space agency is this character's uncle. 809 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,960 But he's, you know, but yeah, it's, it's really well done 810 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:02,480 because you see the cooperative spirit that actually, you know, 811 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,000 gets things done. You know, you, it's very 812 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,640 difficult to succeed by yourself. 813 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,400 You know, even if you're NASA you you usually need help from 814 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,040 somebody else. Yeah. 815 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,160 And that's, that's the spirit that may, you know, makes this 816 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,160 the space station work. It's, you know what, what made 817 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:24,280 the whole space program continue to evolve, and it's what makes 818 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,680 cybersecurity work when we kind of put aside those borders and 819 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,640 say, look, the right thing to do is to help each other. 820 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,480 It's very true. I mean, the, the cliche that's 821 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,400 come up in the last like 10 years about cybersecurity being 822 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,280 a team sport is a cliche for a reason. 823 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:45,320 Because it's true as you just mentioned, you can't get very 824 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,480 far in this field on your own. You know, you just can't. 825 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:53,160 It's much too difficult and there's too many outside forces 826 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,560 and too many unknowns and even, you know, people as experienced 827 00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,360 as you, there's lots of things that just aren't your area of 828 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,480 expertise and you need other people to help you. 829 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,600 You know, it's and it's a lot more fun when you're doing 830 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,160 things with other people too. And you want to share what you 831 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:11,920 know when you figure something out. 832 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,600 I mean, we're all figuring things out as fast as we can. 833 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,920 And when you figure something out, you know you want to share 834 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,720 it so somebody else doesn't have to go through the same agony 835 00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:23,880 that you did. That's exactly right. 836 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,880 And they portray that really well at the end of this movie 837 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:31,520 where when Damon's character is teaching that class and you can 838 00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:35,720 see the joy on his face of getting to tell these stories to 839 00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:39,320 these, you know, 25 year olds in this classroom setting. 840 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,960 And, you know, the last shot of the movie is him saying, OK, any 841 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,520 questions and every hand in the room goes up. 842 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:50,360 Yes, every single person has a question, which is just great. 843 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,440 It's perfect. So you mentioned early on that 844 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,760 we're kind of doing this. We're recording this, I think 2 845 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,640 days before Project Hail Mary actually comes out in most of 846 00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,920 the country. Neither one of us has seen it 847 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:07,480 yet. Hopefully by the time people, 848 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:09,520 you know, actually gets to this, they will. 849 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,520 But I'm dying to see it. I read that book. 850 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,560 I absolutely loved it. I was knocked out by it. 851 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,680 It was so good. I think it's better than The 852 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,120 Martian. They're they're different, but I 853 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,680 probably enjoyed it more. They're both great. 854 00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:29,200 But I'm everything I've heard about that movie so far is just 855 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:34,600 like 9 out of 1010 out of 10. It's a you know, I haven't heard 856 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,760 a bad word about it. News and and I I heard that Ryan 857 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:43,560 Gosling actually got the the movie rights before the book was 858 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:48,040 actually published and he's been working on making this movie for 859 00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,320 like 6 years. That's crazy that I mean, I 860 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,160 really enjoy him. Like he's such a versatile guy 861 00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,160 and he's he's got that sense of humor too that Damon has, you 862 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:04,240 know, that kind of sly, like, you know, knowing look or 863 00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:07,320 sarcasm. That's not malicious. 864 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,880 It's just kind of like this cheeky, you know, mischievous. 865 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,800 Totally yes. He can't be mean. 866 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,040 He's Canadian, so. Yes. 867 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,360 Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that. 868 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,400 I think it's going to be great. So that it's AI think it'll be a 869 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,120 perfect companion to this movie too. 870 00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,160 Lot of hackery going on there too. 871 00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,240 Except more hardware. Well, no, maybe not. 872 00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:35,680 More hardware about the same. Yeah, a lot of hardware in 873 00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,600 Project Hail Mary. I mean, they're not to spoil 874 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,680 any. They're manufacturing things in 875 00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,760 that movie or in that story. There's a lot of stuff going on 876 00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,840 there. They're even in a worse position 877 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,320 than Mark Watney was in this movie. 878 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,720 You know, it's just one guy dying in The Martian in Project 879 00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:56,560 Hail Mary. It's many, many more. 880 00:51:57,240 --> 00:51:58,080 Yeah. Yeah. 881 00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:58,960 Sorry. Spoiler. 882 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,720 Everyone. All right? 883 00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:03,480 Wendy, thank you so much for doing this. 884 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,800 It's great to see you. I love having you on here. 885 00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:11,880 And I'll see you next week. In person next week and maybe we 886 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,560 can sneak off and go watch Project Hail Mary. 887 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,840 It's a date you're on. All right. 888 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:18,360 All right, talk to you soon.